Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Walking Dead (TV Series)

2012-03-21T23:57:00Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* The guns of the survivors */

==OTHER==
That's Norman Reedus with the crossbow. He plays Daryl Dixon, who was not in the actual comic that I can recall. I like that though, he's a cool actor. I'm also a little bummed that they didn't use the guns drawn in the comics. Rick uses a HK mk.23. For those of you who might think that it's impossible to tell that from the comic the artist wrote HK MK.23 on the barrel. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I read some where that the Walker are attracted to loud noises. that might be why he is carrying a crossbow

It is smart to use a crossbow; because it saves on bullets and in most all undead literature and movies the undead always react and swarm when they hear a gunshot. Very good show, have never read the comic but look forward to.-GoshMr.Peabody

It's pretty amazing. I recommend buying the trade paperbacks. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Not only does a crossbow save on ammo and is silent, crossbow bolts can be retrieved and reused repeatedly before they bend, dull, break, or otherwise can't be used any longer. In effect, Daryl has essentially a near-infinite source of ammunition. As for Rick, I think the Python suits him better. It has personality, the Mark 23... not so much. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:43, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==Whoa==
I loved the comic, when the hell did it get a tv show?

The idea was revealed a while ago. It comes out on Halloween. -SasquatchJim

honestly , its like two hours till the show ,i cant wait. simmons 8492

Well it kept my interest. I'll watch it again next week to see if it can maintain the momentum.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

honestly it took some time to realy get things going , but now hes in a populated zone with other survivers . and if i was him id start that tank up! simmons 8492

I coulda sworn the 50 on that tank was still loaded with ammo and in the next scene, it had no ammo [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Just watched it again. The .50 on the tank doesn't appear to be loaded, but there's another one in a sandbag fort that is, in the foreground as he goes by. -IGemini 04:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

iv watched it from the start and i have to say its great simmons 8492

== Crappy dialogue ==

In the trailer, one of the cops told the other to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off. First off, the man he was talking to, had a Glock, so no safety. And since he's a trained cop, ready to open fire on a suspect that's hostile, why wouldn't he have a round in the chamber and his gun ready to go? That line just threw me off [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, just watched it. Its brilliant, easily as good as the comic. The 'crappy dialogue above does jar a little tho. Hes telling him to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off as it is implied the officer in question is a bit useless, however after doing a brass check the officer in question then presses down on the slide release (even tho the slide is forward) as if to pretend it is the saftey catch. Morgan has a 5 shot snub revolver (which someone else will have to identify as im not too good with em). Rick pull a 92fs (standing in for an m9) from a dead soldiers shoulder holster at the end of the episode, and i'm fairly sure the SIG is a tutone P228 or 229 not a P239 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe Basset is so damn useless that he hasn't even figured out that Glocks don't come with manual safeties... --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:28, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing about the thing with the safety is that you can hear the sound of a safety being click off.--[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 04:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Remember that the dialogue was written long before it was decided the cop would be holding a Glock(unless the writer is Michael Mann). So maybe the round in the chamber thing may have been unwarranted, but maybe he was a rookie, he did seem sort of skittish. Regardless, it's unfair to call ''that'' crappy dialogue. I think you're letting your knowledge of guns get in the way of enjoying good stories.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 04:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Dont know if its worth noting, but the cop he tells that too, is actually, the first zombie he ends up shooting, after leaving the police station. Rick commented he was careless and dumb, so reminding him, makes sense.

And, of course, Rick committed a cardinal sin; he referred to a magazine as a clip :P -SasquatchJim

I'm not surprised, Sasqatch. The cop I talked to called his Glock 17 a "Glock 9". I'm sure he would have said clip to. Not all cops are into guns. Haha

:He also could have meant "Glock 9mm", you know, since "9" is common shorthand for 9mm. When has anyone referred to .45 ACP as "11.43mm"? Hell, I once had a conversation with a Korean War vet about 1911s and when I referred to the cartridge by its dimensions, he had a dumbfounded look on his face and "corrected" me, telling me that the 1911A1 was "a 45, not no 11-something". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:51, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==SIG P239==

[[Image:WalkingDead-SIGP239.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|A chase suspect emerges from the wrecked car firing a two-tone SIG P239 at police.]]

This doesn't look like a P239 to me; more like a P226 or P228. It's too big, and it has nickel controls (which the two-tone P239s don't have). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:P228 because of the slide length. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Remember, on low resolution screencaps like the ones I had to use, feel free to correct the Gun IDs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::: Watching the scene I agree that it is somewhat larger. Sounds fine to me - I'll change it. The first episode was pretty good. I'm adding a Beretta 92FS (M9) entry - Grimes indeed takes one off a 'dead' soldier inside the Abrams tank he gets into, as noted by the above section. Also, I never did get a good glance at the snub revolver, though I'm fairly certain it's a S&W. They're replaying the show so I'll keep an eye for it, and some of the other guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

==Spoiler Comment and Morgan's Revolver==
Its nice to see the page updated but arn't some of the descriptions (mainly the colt python) a bit spoilerific for anyone who hasn't watched it yet? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Whoa, yes they are, I sure as hell didn't add those. :b I'll reword them somewhat. Also! The revolver Morgan uses is a Snub S&W Model 66, I can almost guarantee it. Bah, wish I could get screencaps. Still, I'll add that as well. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure its a 66? I remember it having a 5 round cylinder --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I grabbed this off my skyplus box so sorry bout the quality [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2i700fm.jpg[/IMG] Any use, its definatly a 5 shot--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: I could have ''sworn'' it was a S&W. But it's definitely not a Model 66, since there's no rear adj. sights, nor of course a 6-shot cylinder. But Smith snubbie J-frames (5-shot) all have flat 'bull-nose' ejector rod shrouds, not curved. Bah, now I'm kinda stumped. My best guess at this point would probably be a [[Ruger SP101]]. Convert that image there to JPG and upload it on the site. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::Looks like it could also be either the [[Taurus Model 617]] or possibly a stainless steel [[Taurus Model 85]]. Biu it is difficult.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

From the barrel it looks like an early Taurus Model 85 in stainless or nickel plated. It was a five shot cylinder definitely.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: After posting I did consider it being a Taurus, many of them are awfully S&W looking to begin with. I doubt it's a 617 but it easily could be an 85. Hell, could be anything for all I know at this point. I guess it'll just be another 'unidentified' until we get more/better screencaps. I'll modify the S&W 66 entry I posted and just call it un-ID'd snub revolver, noting the 5-shot capacity and stating the possible choices. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I am almost certain it is actually a Ruger SP101, two inch model. No other snubbie, as far as I know, has the upper rear of the frame shaped into a rear sight notch like the SP101, as both of those Taurus models just lack rear sights - you can check the Taurus website as both models lack a "rear sight" category under specifications. Also, if you check out the behind the scenes vid [http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/?bclid=625294007001&bcpid=111717822001&bctid=628200502001 here], there is a pretty decent side shot of the revolver. The general shape is very close to a SP101, and even from the front, the lines on Morgan's triggerguard and barrel are cut much closer semi-melted look on the SP than the very sharp ones on a Taurus oR S&W.

All said, the easiest way to tell would be if they showed the damned cylinder release at some point. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 07:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC) (Corrected typo --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 02:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

: It's not an SP101. The recoil shield shown is a simple traditional shape, not the bulkier contours Rugers have in that part of the frame. Also, the ejector rod shroud is cut back more sharply from the muzzle, and the revolver in the show seems to lack the small hole on the front of the frame for the front crane lock. [[User:Rule .303|Rule .303]] 14:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Judging by the screens uploaded I'd say definately not a 617, 617 is a 7-shot, also can't see a ported barrel. Still think it's a Taurus though. [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 09:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

If you watch the Making of the Walking dead Season 1 it shows the side of the revolver.. Looks exactly like the Ruger SP101 from Breaking Bad. I'm guessing its the same prop. (Just like I think the RV is. )

: It's definately not a Ruger SP101. As to the comment of the SP101 being unique with regards to the rear notch site. Nope. All snubbies have that. I have both the Taurus 85 (old shape) and the Taurus 85 Stainless. Looks much more like that due to the unique underlug on the revolver. Also look at the SP101's front. http://www.dayattherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sp101target8.jpg Definately not what we are seeing in these screen captures. [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 07:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It appears to be a Taurus 405 to me. Looks large-bored, probably .40S&W so that would match the 405. The front sight is tiny from that back angle which also matches the 405, the cylinder backing plate is the same etc. krispic 21:36 Feb 22 2012

== What kind of tank was that? ==

Its oviously a stand-in for an M-1 but I'm not sure what it is. I'm thinking possibly a Chieftain, but I'm not sure. Also, note that a real M-1 woulnd't have worked for the scene since it lacks the floor escape hatch.

-AC.

:I'm also reasonably certain the 82nd Airborne Division doesn't have tanks in their TO&E, yet the (un)dead soldier in the tank had an 82nd patch on his left shoulder. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:32, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Well i would imagine that in the chaos of the zombie apocalypse lots of soldiers ended up with other units doin jobs they aren't really trained for.

Actually smaller units are frequently attached (I believe the Brits call it seconded) to other units for mission purposes. Some armor battalions spent the whole campaign in France (WW II, 1944-1945) being attached to various infantry units - to include the airborne. After all the elements of the 9th and 10th armor divisions that were in Bastogne during the siege fell under the 101st Airborne for the duration of that battle. Funny how the airborne mafia always seems to forget about all the ''other'' troops that fought in that battle. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:17, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

At this point I'm not sure, but I do suspect it's the same tank that shows up in ''[[Zombieland]]''. Both shows are filmed in Georgia and the voice-over commentary on ''Zombieland'' states that the tank is owned by a private collector.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Definately a Chieftain.

: I concur, Chieftains are often used (mocked-up) as stand-ins for Abrams tanks. I also noticed the bottom escape hatch, which as far as I can recall, indeed isn't on an actual Abrams. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

''Other comments posted on main page-''

(Perhaps it is just me, but the Abrams featured in this appears to be a mocked up British Chieftain Tank, I didn't get a good look at the tank but it didn't seem to be a genuine Abrams, although it could simply be an older pattern M1 without the TUSK upgrade, reactive armor and the more apparent loaders hatch. Yet that would not explain the escape hatch.- Doc345)

Older M1s didn't look that diffrent, from the later ones, aside from the most recent upgardes.

Also, the angle of the frontal turret armor is wrong to be an M1.

I think this may be the same tank which appeared in, among other series, Jericho. The vehicle, if I remember correctly, is built on an old Centurion chasis to resemble an Abrams with some obvious differences. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

On a random note, where was a Striker seen in the episode? It says on the page that there was one with a fifty cal on it, but aside from the tank, the only other military vehicles I saw where some HMMWVs, what looked like a deuce, and a half, and some abandone Hueys.

Intrestingly, in the trailor, the one Rick first sees after leaving the hospital lacked a rotor blade making me think it was edited in post-production. Also, the one off to Ricks left appears to still be lacking one.

-AC

at the begging seen when the main cerictor walkes out of the hospital he sees a ebandoned military equpent you can see a Stryker IFV --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 21:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
heres a picture
[[Image:The walking dead.png]]

I can say without a doubt that the 'M1' ''is'' a Chieftain, not a Centurion. The long sloping frontal 'nose' armour, the front idler wheel and the lockers/storage bins are features of the Chieftain, not the Centurion. Not too sure about the 'escape hatch' though. I wonder if this is the same 'M1' that appears in the 2010 remake of Red Dawn? It looks the same to me. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

*Naw, that one they've actually made some modifications to like building up the hull and turret to be more Abrams-like and putting an M1-style bulge over the cylindrical fume extractor. This is just a Chieftain with a fake M2 awkwardly perched on top of the hatch weapon mounting. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:07, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

== Things I noticed ==

Did anybody else notice that when Morgan cocked the hammer back on his gun and threatened to shoot Grimes if he didn't talk, the cylinder didn't advance to the next chamber like it should?

And what about Grimes' personal arsenal in his backpack? Is it safe to assume that rubber/resin mockups? He was getting bounced pretty hard by that horse and the guns kept bumping him in the back. That's at least 40 pounds of gear to be carrying around.

More than safe to assume that. Most of them even appeared to have solid barrels. Probably rubber.--[[Special:Contributions/99.48.50.70|99.48.50.70]] 04:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The cylinder did rotate, I remembered that happening when I watched the scene. As far as the bag -o- guns, I have no idea. If they were all rubber, they were modeled after some hard to find shotgun configurations and looked very real. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 20:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Grimes in episode 3 his duffle bag was holding six shotguns, two "high powered" rifles, a dozen handguns, and 700 rounds of assorted ammo. That's easily 80-90 pounds of gear. There's no way Grimes could be carrying that around in one hand with a gas can in the other. Or getting bucked and having the bag sag to the side and the stuff not come falling out.

Did anybody else notice that Dale seemed to switch between carrying a rifle with a sling, to carrying one without a sling between scenes?

== I rewatched the first episode. ==

Two of the Sheriffs deputys from the neighboring county had shotguns. One looked like and 870 Remington. The other looked like a Mossberg.

The gun used to shoot Rick, I'm pretty sure was either 1911, or a Glock. It seemed to have an extended slide.

-AC

:: I noticed the shotguns too but it was hard to get a decent look at them, mainly the second one (Mossberg I guess). I will concur at least one of the other shotguns was indeed a standard 870. No idea what the pistol is/was. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Almost positive the other two deputys, from the neighboring county had Glocks, like the other deputys from Ricks department.

You can see one of the shotguns fairly well, after Rick gots shot, one of the two deputys joins Shane in trying to help Rick. Like Shane, he drops his gun, and it can be seen fairly well.

Looking at the pick on here, I'm more positive than ever that the last gunmans weapon was a 1911.
Good eye on my part, since it was litreally visible for like less than a second.-AC.

==Andrea's gun==
I believe Andrea is packing a Smith and Wesson 3913 Ladysmith [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I concur. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Here's a good picture. http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-2-rick-andrea.php
[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:: I also agree about it being a 3913 Ladysmith. We also saw a M67 'baseball' grenade in this latest episode (actually the training version, you could still spot some blue paint on it). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of rifle did Meryl have? ==

Looked like possibly a Model 70, but I'm bad at identifing bolt actions.
-AC

Seriously, does anyone know what kind of rifle he had?-AC

Compare the bolt heads (or whatever the end of the bolt closest to the butt is called); the Remington 700 seems to have more of a protruding portion, while the Mod. 70 is tucked in and more square-like.

At least, that's what it seems like. There used to be a generic page for comparing Bolt-Action Rifles, like the shotguns have now. Where did that page go?

Here it is.

[[Bolt Action Rifles - Most common Sporting Models|Scoped Bolt Action Hunting Rifles]]. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

==Shane's Pistol==
Can anyone identify the pistol Shane is carrying? It looks like either a Glock or possibly a Sig Pro. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Probally a Gock. There very common cop guns, in both hollywood, and real life. Also, severael of the cops, at opening shootout had them, so evedently the prophouse they went to had some.
-AC

Definitely a Glock. Although it's only shown briefly, it looks like a 17. He carries it in a thumb break holster. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

Picture of him holding it: http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-4-carl-lori-shane-morales.php

After looking at the screenshot on the main page, can anyone identify the holster?

In the finale you can see its a Glock 19. Not 17. (Also the firing M4s looked like they had blank firing adapters as flashiders)

Definitely a 17 in the last episode when shane opens the barn doors and shhots all the walkers he fires too many rounds for it to be a 19

This is getting tiresome now, stop identifying guns based on the amount of rounds that they fire! It's a TV series where in editing they can easily make a 15 round magazine last for 80 rounds (see John Woo films) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:27, 2 January 2012 (CST)

==Merle==

It's Merle not Maryl or Marle

==Guts==
I really like how Rick actually checks the dead soldier's vest for more ammo instead of just taking the weapon like every other film. I also like how when his Beretta runs dry he doesn't toss it away like some generic action hero but he keeps it and stows it in Glenn's backpack. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that was good stuff. Have yet to see the Beretta again though. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:Did you also notice that his [[Colt Python]] is still in his hoslter even though he ran out of ammo for it? I liked that touch as well. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

You never know what you might find ammo for at a latter date.-AC
::Which he does in the third episode. Anyway Python's are too expensive to be tossing away on a whim. Even after the Zombie Apocalypse has happened. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

If I recall right they've been outta production since the late 90s.

::The last Python was manufactured approximately six years ago. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Still outta production than. If I recall right, for a while it was outta generael production, but could be special ordered.

Yes the last five or six years it had to be ordered through the custom shop.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The Python, and The Anaconda, where the best revolvers Colt made since the SAA imho-AC

IMO, the Official Police and Detective Special should be included as well. -SasquatchJim

Too bad that still fully loaded .50 next to the tank is too heavy to take back [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If he can walk and ride a horse with a 90lb bag on his back like its nothing, he could carry a M2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

And he brought buddies with him to GET that bag he left behind. They can lug around an M2 with ammo. Sure it doesn't look like there's any extra, but it's an M2 with AMMO! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

But honestly, what would be the purpose, in this story? I mean, they're already getting guns and ammo, and it's not like you need a lot of penetration to kill a zombie, so they don't really need a .50 caliber machinegun. All it would really do was kill a couple of zombies while making a shitload of noise, attracting every zombie in a mile radius. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 05:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

: I bet one would've come in handy on top of the camper during the attack on the camp. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::Possibly (I posted that before I saw that episode, sorry.), though I doubt any of them have any training or even any practice with military grade machine guns, and so I'm betting that during the chaos of the attack, they would have killed more of their own people. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:43, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
::: Woulda been kinda hard to use that thing in the dark, too, since the only source of light is that campfire. Scoring headshots on zombies without friendly fire in a situation like that? No way even TV-land can pull THAT one off.

Talking about scavenging guns, even when they were rushing back to the vehicles in front of the CDC wouldn't it have been a good idea to at least grab a couple of the discarded weapons lying around out front?

==Vatos==
Ok, tonight I think I've seen a S&W model 10, a Colt Detective Special, and possibly a S&W mosel 28 in the hands of the mexican gangsters and it looks like T-Dog was using a BAR. The bag had some Sigs and Glocks and Daryl had a Remington 870 and I think that Rick is using a Mossberg 590 not a 500. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't edit the page tonight, I just wrote on here. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Daryl took at least one Sig from the bag. T-Dog used a Mossberg later, but I think his scoped rifle was a BAR. The shotty Glenn ended up with, looked the same as Daryl's. Also, Shane drew his pistol at one point, but it was hard to see.-AC
==Daryl's Crossbow==
Daryl Dixon's crossbow is a Horton Scout HD 125: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2817217&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch. In the fourth episode "Vatos", when Daryl points it a T-dog on the roof you can see the faded Horton logo on the front. Scout 125 can be seen above the trigger after the camera angle changes. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

::Picture added and changes made. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Was that an XD? ==

The handgun, that Daryl takes from the bag of guns. At first I thought it was a SIG, but after rewatching it, I think it may have been a Springfield Army XD.
-AC

Nope, definitely a bi-tone Sig of some kind.

Yeah, the XDs don't have all that stuff on the side of the gun and the slide is actually more Glock like than the more rounder Sig slides [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Walkingdeadsig.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rick Grimes ([[Andrew Lincoln]]) inspects a bi-tone Sig Sauer handgun from his bag of guns.]]

- ZeoRanger5 17:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

that looks like a SIG-sauer P226 or P228. simmons 8492

I agree with simmons 8492, i'd say p228 myself.

How did you think that was an XD?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 14:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. When I stuck it in his waistband, it looked like a combination between a Sig, and a Glock. As far as handguns go, I'd say the XD is closest to that description. Course I was rather sleep deprived at the time.-AC

i also think that in episode 5 shane pulls what looks to be a sig when the sister is coming back to life . im not sure because i know shane has a glock but this isnt in the holster , its carried mexican style and is only seen for seconds. can some one verify ?[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Rick also pulls a gun carried similarily in that scene. Ricks looked like a Glock.

but shanes looks more like a sig or something .[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Some ones gotta move that pic into the 228 spot.[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:It's not a P228. The screencap doesn't show it well, but I checked the episode again, and it's possible to see that it has the squared trigger guard of the P226, rather than rounded, as on a P228. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

==Faking recoil==

Its a littlle overdone but nice to see it (a HP in 9mm doesnt kick as much as shown, but its better than most shows, and handling is pretty good or tv.

may be because he hasent realy fired a 9mm in a while he wasnt use to it or because hes used to the revovler

That makes no sense, .357 Magnum (I'm guessing thats what is loaded) has alot more kick, if he can handle a .357 than he could easily handle a 9mm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:02, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

and im sure that a python has more kick than that highpower . and being that he killed a hand full of zombies with that in the first episode it wont matter .-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:Just a FYI, its Hi Power, not High Power.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Since most people don't know the distinction between a Hi-Power and a Colt M1911, and the show is known to have certain..flaws when it comes to reality, they could have just been assuming that it was a .45, and Hollywood logic states that if it's larger than 9mm, it makes your wrist fly up and sends bad guys flying.

Or it was just because they wanted Rick to seem cool with a stainless steel firearm (like his Colt Python, which he points at other survivors so often, it could be a drinking game).

But being seriously, this is the same show where Glocks have external, slide-mounted safeties in the US and headshots can be made off-hand with a sidearm at 50 meters while running.

AUA/

:I haven't been able to watch the series only the first episode (no cable) but... The Python is a heavy revolver and could be loaded with .38 Specials. Also with the Hi-Power being a semi-auto and able to shoot more rapidly. Would have more perceived recoil. Seeing guys on YouTube handle .45s with very little recoil, it's shotguns and full auto rifles where movies get recoil wrong. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==DShK heavy machine gun?==

I believe there was an abandoned DShK heavy machine gun flanked by sandbags when they headed towards the CDC building by the looks of the muzzle. (This was the best episode so far, I think.) - Angel_956

Most likely a mocked up M2 but I definatly saw that distinct muzzle brake.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I added a cap but you cannot really tell one way or another if it is a mock up or not. Either way...it makes no sense for it to be there in the first place!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was thinking. Why would an outdated Soviet Union machine gun even be in the show, but it might be cleared up in the next episode. I clearly remember the guy in the CDC building saying something about some French soilders, I think. If so it might of meant that there was an international response to the zombie outbreak, trying to control it, explaining the DShK. [[User:Angel_956|Angel_956]]

:Now your just over-analyzing, it's in all likeliness what they used because it's what was available to use when they were shooting the scene. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe somebody "requisitioned" (read: looted) it from the National Infantry Museum or Fort Benning; both are in or around Columbus, GA, which isn't exactly close to Atlanta, but it's the closest place I can think of where you might plausibly find a DShK. When you need more HMGs, you grab what's available. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 20:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Weird though, since they obviously had M2s available for filming.-AC

:Not necessarily. Armorers can change during filming and weapons may not be available even though they were previously. Also remember that only the first episode had the M2 so the armorer could have changed since then. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, those M2HBs are still there in episodes 2 ("Guts," when Grimes escapes from the tank) and 4 ("Vatos," when Glenn goes to retrieve the Bag O' Guns) and they pass at least two M2HBs on the way to the CDC's front door after they pass the DShK. They weren't just there for the pilot. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 09:18, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

My thought was militia that made a last stand with the army to protect the people gathering at the CDC (notice the weapon is surrounded by bodies in civilian clothes), the DShK having been purchased by one of the members (legitimately or otherwise) and subsequently put to use following the outbreak. - Wolfblade670

Maybe the Russians dropped in tom VDV to help protect the CDC. -Jakezergling

:I, umm, highly doubt that... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:30, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, Russia would have enough trouble fighting the Walkers on their own turf, considering that Russia is easily 2 times the size of continental United States. Besides that, do the Russians even use the DshK anymore? I do believe it's been phased out by the Kord since the late 90s/early 2000s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:18, 27 February 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's knife ==

In the third episode, when Daryl is told about his brother, he attacks Rick with some sort of hunting or combat knife. He's later seen with it in a sheath on his left thigh, and you get a fairly close (But very brief) look at it when they're walking through the building at the beginning of the forth episode. Anyone have any clue what it is? I mean, from the brief glimpse I got of it in the forth episode, it looked like it was possibly a TOPS Steel Eagle 107C, the same kind of knife that the character Royce had sheathed in Predators, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm, or give an alternative? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

It's actually a Busse Combat Team Gemini with a bead blasted finish and black and tan layered g10. Gerber is now supplying knives to the show as well, as seen in the season 2 premiere when Carl finds a full roll in and abandon vehicle. The list of models is on their FB page. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

: I would agree that Daryl does have a Busse Combat Team Gemini. A clear profile-type photo of Daryl's knife was featured in the "story sync" for the eighth episode of the second season on the AMC website. Here's a link to that image: http://www.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/208-17.jpg --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:24, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== What kind of gun did he give Morales? ==

He said it was a .357, but I have no idea what it was.-AC

/AUA

He held it in his hand for a profile shot; maybe you should try screencapping it at that point and going from there. There should be an ID for it though, unlike Morgan's snubnose.

AUA/

I lack the equipment needed to screencap.-AC

/AUA

Use IrfanView (freeware) or the PrtScn button on your computer (press it on the frame you want to capture, and then paste it into Paint to crop it).

AUA/

I think it's a Smith and Wesson 586 [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

== Rick's second shotgun.==

After Rick gives the 590 (it wasn't a 500, someone should change that) to Guillermo, he uses one with an 18 inch barrel, a blued type finish and wood furniture. I think some people commented on it being a Mossberg, but it has a rounded bolt like a Remington 870. However, it's not an 870 since the trigger guard isn't round enough, the magazine tube is longer than the standard 4 shot tube, and it doesn't have an extension attached, and the wood furniture has a single rib on the side for gripping. After doing some research, my best guess is that it's an earlier H&R Pardner Pump, possibly in some sort of police configuration. I know it's neither a Mossberg or a Remington, though.

It's indeed an H&R Pardner Pump. The humpback receiver is unmistakable. [Ballistics_Expert2]

/AUA

I'd PrtScn/screencap the shotgun in question before making any comparisons. We still haven't definitively IDed Dale's bolt-action, so maybe you should get one of that as well.

AUA/

We still have Merles bolt-action as well.
-AC

This cap from the page will suffice:

[[Image:WD870ep05.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Rick with his Remigton, when he and Shane patrol the woods (Episode 5).]]

And a link to a Pardner Pump configured similarly:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/TRguy/Guns/NEFPardnerPumpYouth8-12-10.jpg

A few things distinguishing the shotgun in the picture as a Pardner Pump as opposed to an 870, 500 series, or whatever:

-Some type of thin rib on the top of the barrel.
-The foregrip has the distinctive groove in it as seen on the Pardner Pump.
-The agnle that the receiver curves at the butt end is a sharper angle rather than a bend type (you can tell by the shadow).
-The magazine tube is longer than a 4 shot, but it's not screwed on like other models, nor does the endcap and barrel link resemble that of other models.

Some other things that you can't notice in the picture, like the flatter trigger guard or a good shot of the angled receiver, are seen in the series very easily, namely in Episode 5 during Rick and Shane's patrol, when this cap takes place, and one instance in Episode 6 where the doctor is drawing blood and the gun is sitting behind Rick as he waits. This good enough? --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 10:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think you're right, it's not a Remington, Mossberg, or a Winchester. It looks like a Pardner, more like the Pardner pump compact, due to the shorter barrell. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 23:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

-Rick's first shotgun was a 500 with the extended tube. It didn't have the bayonet lug, just check some of the promo pics on imbd.com - [[User:MarkXIX|MarkXIX]]

Ah, so it is, I could have sworn I saw the 590s tube cap on it. I can notice a buncha stuff on an H&R, but I get that wrong, lol. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 17:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Rick's shotgun, from the end of Vatos and on, was a Pardner Pump, but I don't think it was a 20 gauge. Sometimes, hunting model guns can have the vent-rib barrel cut down, to where it is a riot shotgun. I see that as being more plausible. --[[User:1897Reloaded|1897Reloaded]] 11:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

==Think its funny==

Rick misses several close range shots (so do long gun toting officers) in the beginning against chase suspects, then later in series hes nailing headshots left and right....

Noticed that too, although zombies don't shoot back. They just charge straight ahead.

/AUA

It's a screenplay-direction thing. The show is already a bit overdramatized in general, so little things like the 'clip' and 'safety' dialogue or the headshot ratio aren't really all that important to the screenwriters, at least not compared with inserting dramatic bits into it.

AUA/

When the police were shooting the chase suspects, their targets were live people. An accurate marksman or not, if you're not used to firing live rounds at live humans your subconscious may not want you to hit that kill shot. Zombies are different.

also he has had weeks of shooting live targets ie the zombies so he as probaly leared to shot them really well --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Unless you're superhuman, you can't learn how to make a shot that is off-hand, behind you, at a 1.5 x 1 ft target at 50 meters, while RUNNING, in a few weeks. Few people would be able to make that shot, period. The gate-zombie shots were just...unfeasible.

AUA/

*Well it is a show about the dead walking around and eating the flesh of the living. I'm willing to overlook the amazing skill that Rick displays with headshots.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:28, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

==Question about Shane's shotgun technique==
Just a question for those who may know, is it considered proper technique to hold the gun that high on the shoulder, with his cheek resting on the receiver? I figuered it was an adjustmant made due to the M4-style stock, as Rick and other survivors wielding unmodified weapons don't do this.

: I noticed that too, I figured it was just the actor's preference (possibly due to inexperience) but I guess it could be because of the M4 stock. I dunno. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

:It's standard practice in the US military. They teach you to ride the stock high so that your sights are level with your eyes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Thats with the M16/M4, not a shotgun.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:the stock on the shotgun is a Knoxx Industries SpecOps NRS Shotgun Stock

::My dad has one on his 870.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

-i noticed that . i dont think that stock has a single thing to do with it . it probably prefrances [[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Considering the US military teaches you do to that with a M4, the stock is pretty much the same as the M4 so I could see why he's doing it. Also I don't get the feeling that any of the actors are really inexperienced, they all seem to be trained well in regards to weapons. Least Rick and Shane do.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:18, 8 March 2012 (CST)

==Series Finale==

I noticed a nickel finished pistol tucked into Daryl's waistband mexican style early on in the episode, looked like a SIG.
I'm thinking that Daryl's pistol was probably the same Hi-Power Rick took off merle in episode 2.

Does any one else think the grenade description is a bit of a spoiler as it is a deus ex machina. I suggest only saying it is used in episode 6 and not how. I know this has absoloutely nothing to do with firearms but i loved the ax decapitation amidst the headshots at the end --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

:The grenade wasn't a deus ex machina, but a textbook example of Chekhov's gun. He found it in the first episode even. It would have been a deus ex machina if they found it there.(I expected him to actually bring it out against the guys in the city in episode 3, myself)--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 08:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, New guy here. When Jenner allows the the others to enter the facility at the start of the episode, he's seen holding an M4, and he mentions that "There're a lot of these lying around. I familiarized myself." And yet, none of the others ever even think of finding a couple of the guns for themselves. Shame, considering a couple of those and a few mags would've come in pretty handy outside (especially if there was a suppressor to be found) Anyone else bugged by this?

They've been sitting outside for like a month. The M4 is a fine, gun, but you need to clean it regularly.-AC

:Only if your in the desert sand, sitting around like that outside would be fine but not how I would store my guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I was definitely bugged by this fact. Supposedly a lot of M4s and 30 round magazines lying around, and Jenner's the only guy who has one. But then again the supply of ammo might've been low, considering everything that'd happened. [[Ballistics_Expert2]]

first off all there are no M4A1`s seen inside all out side wicth iswere he probily got it second they were only out side for a few momints ehter runing away from the bulding or trying to get in before they are over welbed with zombies tird as he said ammo is preety rare as you can see when they are out side there are hunderdes of dead zombies witch had to be killed by something --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== To Do List. ==

1. Shotguns used by deputies in opening shootout.
2. Morgans revolver.
3. Merles rifle.
4. The guns, Rick, and Shane pull after Amy turns.
5. The gun given to Morales.
6. Daryls handgun.
7. Whether Shanes Glock is a 17 or 19.
8. Whether Ricks first shotty was a 500 or a 590.
9. Ricks second shotty.

I miss anything?-AC

==Short Season Huh?==

At least season 2 will be twice as long, whenever they get around to making it.....

At least there will be a seaon two, I thought this was a miniseries at first and was very dissapointed that it was over so soon. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 01:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

It's definately already in production. Normally when a series gets picked up production on the second season gets rolling ASAP. This became a pretty popular show, show I'm guessing AMC got the ball rolling right away when they realized they had demand for the show. Anyone here read the graphic novel series? I want to try and get into it but want to know if it's worth the time and money--[[User:Burgershot621|Burgershot621]] 05:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

They really are worth it. I buy the trade paperbacks, they are like $12.00 a book. There are 13 of them up to now. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Personaaly i prefer the graphic novels. Dont get me wrong i love the series, but the comics are much more grim and dark, in the series everyone seems to be more willing to get along and its more zombie orientated, the comics are much more grim, its about the characters and in the comic no characters are safe, even mainstay ones. The tv series feels slightly more commercialised and main characters have outlived their comic book life already. I do love the tv version, and darly dixion is the best non comic character creation to be added to the series, I just hope Carl gets a gun next series, that said and cant belive i have to wait till october to see series 2.- Captain Snikt [[Special:Contributions/109.157.4.163|109.157.4.163]] 23:58, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

== Popular Cop Guns ==
An answer above said that the Glock was "a very common cop gun, in both hollywood, and real life." This is true, but I was wondering if their were any other cop guns in hollywood and in real life that are as popular as the Glock.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The Beretta 92 is the only one that comes to mind for me. -SasquatchJim.

:There aren't too many police depts issuing the Beretta 92F anymore, even though Hollywood still shows them being carried by cops. Anyway, Glock holds just under 2/3rds of the U.S. law enforcement market, SIG-Sauer holds about 1/3rd, and a number of other makes (S&W, H&K, Beretta, etc.) are constantly fighting each other for what's left. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

SIG-Sauer P226, S&W M19/66, AR-15, and many more... --[[User:nkingman|nkingman]]

Ah, that's right.
Some older ones include the S&W Model 10, S&W Model 28, Colt Trooper, and a 12 gauge pump shotgun (namely a Remington 870.)
Another new one is the S&W M&P -SasquatchJim

There was once a time when the S&W Model 15/67, the S&W Model 13/65. Colt Official Police, Ruger Six Series revolvers, the S&W Model 19/66 and the Colt Lawman/Trooper Mk III were also very popular Cop revolvers.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:40, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

== Flash suppressor on M4A1 ==

Did anyone else notice the flash suppressor on the M4A1 held by the soldier that gets grabbed is different than normal?
:I thought it was a nongun.--[[Special:Contributions/129.89.179.105|129.89.179.105]] 01:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)(thePotShot)
::Just for reference,
::[[Image:M4A1nongun.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M4A1 Non Gun]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Yeah, it's a Non Gun M4. Look at the range at which he's shooting at his comrades. Blanks are dangerous if an actor is shooting at other actors who are that close, so they probably had to use the Non Gun instead. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:57, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, the Aimpoint M68 CCO (in this case I believe it is a Comp M2 or ML2) can be used with the foreward lens cover closed. Used in this method, it forms an occuladed eye-sight, which were one of the first types of weapons optics employed. Using an occuladed eye-sight is very similar in principle to the BAC method employed in some Trijicon ACOGs, both eyes are left open and due to the way the brain processes images from the eye, what the left (or right eye sees) downrange has the red dot from the other eye (which is looking down the sight) superimposed on it. This is useful as there are rumors that the red dot (particularly in the Aimpoint family) can in fact be detected from in front of the weapon due to the intensity of the light, espiecially in night battle conditions. So the sceintist might really know what he is doing, but it is just as likely it was a mistake by the prop department.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 22:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== I liked Rick's reaction when he pulled the pin on the grenade in the last episode ==

He was thinkin "ohshitohshitohshitohshit" and then hauled ass outta there haha. I liked that little detail, along with him getting knocked off his feet as he tried to get as far away from it as possible, instead of the clichè "walk slowly towards the camera as a bomb goes off behind you with a bad-ass grimace on your face". This show had a lot of nice little details like that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)- Yeah but its a grenade bro, you have like what 7 seconds so you can't walk away slowly from it..and also the building was about to total..-jake

Yeah, I liked that too. i hate when like the everyday joe can slowly walk away from a huge explosion,[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

I like the way that he pulled the pin and had the "Oh my GOD!" moment when he suddenly realised that he needed to run fast. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:49, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

== Season 2 ==

Anyone seen the trailer yet for the second seaons? It's been out for a few weeks now. I jus--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)t thought it was interesting that it hasn't been mentioned here.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

I don't have the equipment for getting screencaps from TV, but the revolver Daryl took from the camper who committed suicide looks like either a Colt Cobra or Detective Special. The structure doesn't look right for being a S&W Model 10 or Model 36/37. And the slender grip profile and lack of an ejector rod housing eliminates the possibility of it being a Taurus.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

I was rewatching the season 2 premier episode and I noticed something that irked me a bit concerning the scene at the tent where Daryl found the Colt revolver. This is a series known for a great deal of firearms safety and consideration. But here we have an example of typical Hollywood gun handling. Nobody checked to see how many live rounds were in it, they just assumed it was still loaded and ready to be used. For all we know Daryl handed Laurie an empty weapon for taking on the trail back to the RV.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

==Gerber Bag of Knives==

Carl ([[Chandler Riggs]]) found this bag in the first episode of the second season which contained six different gerber tool knives and machetes.

[[Image:Gerber-Zombie-Apocolypse-Knives.jpg|thumb|none|500px| So long as you use a knife, there's still a little love left.]]

In the Season 2 props video on the AMC website, they explain the endorsement and show some of the gear. The prop master also gives a look at Rick's character specific items, which includes a [http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000582-Modified-Partially-Serrated/dp/B004DT26ME/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319921541&sr=8-2 DMF Folder]. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:58, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

Some of this bag is anachronistic though, as the knives were not invented until after the zombie apocalypse destroyed humanity, and presumably the Gerber factory. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:21, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

How do you know that though? As far as I can remember there hasn't been a date mentioned for when the zombie apocalypse happened, it could be set in the very near future. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:30, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:What I meant is that some of the knives have been released since the series started airing, and I'm assuming that the first episode wasn't set in the future. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:41, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
::Fair enough. I do think of it like well they haven't really set an actual date on when it occurs so anything "new" that shows up in the show is either there to look cool or it's there for some sort of product placement. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:33, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::Or both. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:35, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::: Touche --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:08, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

== Morgan's Revolver ==

The revolver that Morgan uses is a S&W model 60

:It can't be the Model 60 because of the curved ejector shroud. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:38, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Season 2 spoiler-ish descriptions ==

I feel like a lot of the description "updates" on the guns used (or re-used, as applicable) in Season 2 are giving too much info away. Definitely enough to qualify as spoilers to some people (like me). One shouldn't need to narrate the scene and context in which the gun appears, at least not to the extent some of the descriptions are- especially if it's giving away future happenings.

== M4 ==

I think the caption about the doctor not noticing the covers for the M68 is a little of a moot point. The doctor stated he wasnt familiar with the weapon, and simply picked it up when soldiers started dying or running away. -MissySummers-

== Dave and Tony's guns ==

In the eighth episode of the second season - "Nebraska" - two newcomers walk into the bar where Rick and Glenn found Hershel drinking alone. The strangers introduce themselves to Rick, Glenn, and Hershel as Dave and Tony. I had a difficult time identifying these two guns that Dave and Tony had. Dave's gun looked to me like it might be a SIG-Sauer P226. Tony's gun looked to me like it was some sort of sawn-off double-barrel shotgun - maybe an over/under style double barrel shotgun too. Did anybody get a good look at either one of these guns? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:52, 21 February 2012 (CST)

After watching the episode "Triggerfinger" it looks like hershel picked up Dave's pistol which looked to me like a SIG-SAUER P228 to me. And the big guy had a cutdown pump shotgun that I think was a Remington 870 and Rick was duel weilding it with his Python when they left the bar. The kid on the roof appeared to a have a bolt action rifle but it never showed a clear pic.

: I just watched the "Nebraska" and "Triggerfinger" episodes again back to back. I would have to agree with you now on Dave's gun. It appears that Dave actually did bring a SIG-Sauer P228 into the bar in the "Nebraska" episode. I got a better look at this gun in the "Triggerfinger" episode when Hershel was armed with it. I could tell this gun was a P228 because the trigger guard was curved instead of hooked like the P226 has, plus the barrel and slide on this gun were shorter than what the P226 has. I looked very closely at Tony's shotgun too, but I don't agree with you on this one. There's no way it could have been a Remington 870. I would still say that it is a sawn-off, over/under, double barrel shotgun. (Just my opinion here, but a sawn-off shotgun would be a piss-poor gun for defending yourself against a zombie horde that is coming at you. The shot spread pattern on a sawn-off shotgun would be way too wide to be effective on any zombie's head beyond short range, and it's better to kill multiple zombies from a distance than at point blank range, right?) I also noticed that Glenn had Tony's shotgun later on in the "Triggerfinger" episode. I agree with you about that the kid on the roof though - he sure seemed to have a bolt action rifle with a scope mounted on it. What happened to it is the question now. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 15:59, 22 February 2012 (CST)
I just watched it again and I swore I heard a cocking sound so that could make it a pump action shotgun. You were right its not a pump action i believe its a over/under gun. [[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

: TV shows and movies usually have the cocking sound effects for guns added in for dramatic purposes. (For example, it seems that we often hear the cocking sound effect every time the script calls for one character to point a gun at somebody or something. In real life, guns are normally silent when this happens.) The Walking Dead seems to be just such a TV show. I don't know how to screen capture this yet, but I paused episode 208 at the 43:15 mark. I could clearly see the underside of Tony's gun there, and I did not see things on this gun such as a loading port, or a slide piece, both of which would be consistent with a pump action shotgun. It was all dark on that part of the shotgun instead, which to me seems more consistent with a double barrel, over/under, break action shotgun than with a pump action shotgun. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:55, 23 February 2012 (CST)

: I couldn't get a good look at Tony's shotgun in either "Nebraska" or "Triggerfinger". At first glance it looked like a cut down Winchester 1887 (like in T-2). I was wondering if anyone else happened to think that too? Also it almost looked like it had a synthetic stock on it which made me think it could have been the Chiappa T-Series 1887, but I don't know if those are availible yet, but again I didn't get a good enough look at it.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 20:10, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::It is a sawn off over and under (although it may be purpose made as it appeared to have a front sight present). You get a look at the gun when the guy gets up to piss, and after he is shot you see a front view of the gun showing that it is two open barrels rather than a barrel with a magazine tube underneath. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::: You're right. After rewatching the episode online and pausing just after he gets shot I could see the two barrels and also could see there is no lever either.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 22:57, 23 February 2012 (CST)

Tony's shotgun looks VERY much like the MOSSBERG HS12 after another look at episode 9. When Rick searches Tony's pocket and picks up two (probably 12-ga) shotgun rounds, you can clearly see the Top/Locking Lever for opening/locking the breech contrasted against the background. In the shot just before that you can see a Picatinny or Weaver rail on top of the receiver. This clearly says "HS12" to me...and though it pretty clearly does not have a rail on the bottom of the under barrel, not all HS12s have the under-barrel rail, I think. --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]] 27 Feb 2012
:Had to Google Mossberg HS12, and I must admit I giggled a little bit at the concept of a "tactical" over/under. I watched the episodes in question the other day, and from memory at least I'd have to agree with you. It'd be nice if someone could post a picture, though.... [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 18:05, 27 February 2012 (CST)
::I will try to get an appropriate screencap uploaded; ditto for the Sig P228/229 to help resolve that one. PS "tactical" double-barrels have made ground in the last couple years or so- check out Stoeger's "tactical" SxS...just remember to bring your barf bag- they're charging the same prices for one as you'd see for a good 870 or Mossy pump. Outrageous! In any case, stupid people waste their money on them- but I digress. Tony's apparent choice of shotgun bespeaks his desperation and/or seriously limited tactical reasoning ability- which I guess we already could've figured out around the time his body hit the floor. =P --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]]

: Does the Mossberg HS12 come with sling swivel studs? I noticed that Tony was carrying his shotgun by a sling that was looped over his shoulder. Since the buttstock of this shotgun had been sawn off, there was no way to just let it hang there - he had to keep holding onto the sling with his hand instead. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 09:00, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== What caused it? ==
Does the comic ever reveal what the cause of the outbreak was? I'm not asking for spoilers as to what the cause ''was'', I'm just asking if it's ever revealed, like a "yeah, they find out what it was" or "no, they build a rocket ship and fly to Mars to restart human civilization", or something like that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:59, 27 February 2012 (CST)
:I don't think any reason has actually been given, and Robert Kirkman (writer of the comic) has stated that he doesn't plan to ever give a definitive cause. In the comic characters have speculated that it is caused by a virus that everyone in the world is infected with that causes them to reanimate after death. Because I've read the comic I already knew this so can't remember if it is made clear in the series, but it is the kind of zombie apocalypse where everyone who dies turns into a zombie, even if they die from non zombie causes (zombie bites cause infections that are 100% lethal). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 27 February 2012 (CST)

For Example a certain Main Character is shot dead at the end of the first book (in the comic they never went to the CDC, instead they just got the guns and left, but before they left the character is killed) and later in the series (maybe a book or two later, Rick returns to the place where they buried said person, and he was a zombie even though he had died by a bullet and not bite/scratch --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 09:34, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== Unidentified pistol ==

In the most recent episode, S02E11, Carl takes a pistol out of Daryl's bike. Presumably it is the same pistol Daryl used in episode S01E4. There were some pretty clear shots of the pistol when Carl is holding it, looked like a Browning, but I could be completely wrong. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 23:51, 5 March 2012 (CST)
:It was a [[Browning BDA]], not sure if this is the same gun as in S01E04 as it looks like that has a larger beavertail on the back of the grip, but is hard to tell from the shots available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:56, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Shotgun stock? ==
What type of stock is on Shane's shotgun?
--[[User:Zombie Killer 1995|Zombie Killer 1995]] 09:24, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:It says on the main article, a KNOXX SpecOps NRS stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:40, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's pistol ==

I think Daryl's unidentified pistol might be a CZ-75 series, the frame/grips seem to match it as does the general size.
:Looked more like a Browning Hi-Power to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:18, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I concur with Cool-breeze. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:41, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Looked more like a Browning BDM to me.

Hey, it does not really matter at this point as the stupid kid loses in the leafs and then books it..
::He ''didn't'' lose it in the bushes. But even if he had, it still matters what it is, considering the purpose of this website. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:22, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

That actually seemed to best the best look at the handgun we see and it appeared to be a Browning Hi-Power to me as well.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:15, 8 March 2012 (CST)

:People are talking about two different guns here. The easily identifiable one is the one that Carl takes out of Daryl's saddle bag in the most recent episode, which is definitely a [[Browning BDA]]. There is also the pistol that only the grip is seen sticking out of his waist band in S01E04, which I think is a different pistol. One of the only features that you can make out on this pistol is that fact that it has a prominent beavertail/grip spur at the back which is does not match the BDA or BDM. Hammer is wrong for the Hi-Power, my best guess would be a CZ-75 from the relationship between the hammer and the grip spur but it is not possible to tell from this pic. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:57, 9 March 2012 (CST)

== GUN SENSE ==

Their for sure would tons of M4'S and possibly m16a4's lying around in the streets of Atlanta with moer Berettas. Why does no one go for one and why do they not ask jenner for some. Would an assault rifle not be good to kill hordes of undead? Also why did rick not get on the .50 on the tank and take out some before. Even when I see police cars don't they raid them. The only time I have seen anyone do that is when Shane and Otis use the flares from the cruiser to distract the walkers..And yes I know it is a scripted show.
------
Don't forget that the show starts a while after the zombies take over so any M4s,M16s, etc would have already been scooped up from the Atlanta streets, at least the ones people could get before the city was overrun. And they didn't ask Jenner for any because an assault rifle is actually quite cumbersome and the ammo could weigh them down even more then they already are. Also it would be pretty hard to find any ammunition for M4s/M16s as that doesn't seem to be a commonly used weapon in this show beyond the military. They don't search cop cars because as I stated, the show starts a while after the initial overrunning of cities so if people had any brains, they would have raided cop cars a long time ago. As for the Beretta statement, it seems like that is more of a military firearm as well and not a police weapon, plus they can't search every single corpse they find in the city. As to the .50 cal on the tank, notice how fast the zombies crawled on top of the tank? Rick would never have lasted, plus I don't believe there was any .50 ammo in the tank, nor in the gun. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:14, 8 March 2012 (CST)

- -

Sorry I'm new at posting on here. Good point I forgot it starts 2 week after the outbreak. But I was thinking if Otis and Shane both had automatics it may have ended differently. Also we do Rick's beretta again with Shane and Andrea in the housing developments she has it no and perfers it to her ladysmith. And as to the .50cal their was one zombie when he came out to escape he shoveled it in the face. The .50 just is a bad idea in my opinion caue its one loud mother. Also I don't understand why people carry bolt actions around, look what happend to Dale. Imagine how smooth the show would run if everyone had silenced weapons. One more thing, is anyone else hoping for the variety of guns to switch up? We know that the kid's camp has 30 men+(jude,jury,executioner)so assuming Rick's group comes up on top cause the shows been renewed for season 3. Will they get some real artiliery? (User:n Gunfan1996)

:If I remember in the first episode, Rick did bump into a tank and I coulda sworn I saw ammo in that 50 cal, but it is a bit heavy for one to carry. An Assault Rifle plus ammo is not heavy at all. A shotgun with ammo is actually more heavy and cumbersome to carry and limited range 12:46, 9 March 2012 (CST)

:There was no ammo in the tank gun.

[[Image:WalkingDead-BrowningM2HB 02.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A closeup of the mounting; note that the mounting is designed for the L7 GPMG, an FN MAG derivative, and the fake M2 simply sits on top of it. Compare to the real M2 in the foreground of the shot above.]]

:Besides, Rick was on horseback. What's he going to do, mount the .50 on the head of his horse? And it's also worth noting that he didn't have any weapons that used that ammo. A belt of .50 would be dead weight (no pun intended). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:37, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

== WOW!!!!!!! AWESOME ENDING (SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!) ==

I couln' resist saying how awesome i thought S02: E12 was. That was the way to kill off Shane. Plus with the cool remix of the theme song playing as you see an army of walkers walk out onto the field. Just saying, I think Hershel or Maggie will die in the season finale. For those who missed it, here's a link: http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/talked-about-scene-episode-212-the-walking-dead-shanes-last-stand --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 14:51, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

Yep pretty good. I knew that eventually Shane was going. If I remember the comic book correctly it was Carl who killed Shane when he was going to kill rick and then Rick finished him off when he came back as a walker. So in the television show they reversed that. Liked the ending. I wonder if next season they will deal with the Governor and the Prison? --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:30, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:If you search for news of the show, te actor has already been cast, looking forward to the next season.--[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 17:14, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:The Governor has indeed been cast and no it is not Merle. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:55, 12 March 2012 (CDT) [[http://screenrant.com/david-morrissey-governor-the-walking-dead-yman-156371/]]

Nothing you guys said makes any sense because i don't read comics. Don't tell me though. I'm going to read the comics after the series finally ends. I know a friend with the complete collection who sai he is going to sell it along with DVD copies when they all come out. I WANT THAT!!!!! Check on ebay after the series comes to an end.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 18:56, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

All I'm wondering is why did they make it so all you have to do is die to become a zombie instead of being bitten/scratched? Do they explain this as well? [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 10:00, 13 March 2012

:Almost every zombie story I've ever read, movie I've ever seen, or game I've ever played has it the same way as The Walking Dead TV series and comic book has had it - When a person dies for any reason, that same person later becomes a zombie, unless their brain has been damaged or destroyed first. So far, no explanation has been given as to exactly how this happens. My guess would be that it's all due to an airborne virus. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:56, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

Can anyone identify the knife Rick used to finally put Shane down? Was it one of the Gerbers seen frequently throughout this season, or something else? I couldn't get a close enough look.--[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:35, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:I paused S02/Ep12 at the 39:09 mark. That was where I could get the best look at this knife. As best I can tell, Rick used a Gerber DMF folder on Shane. I think Rick has had that same knife all throughout Season 2. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 13:19, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

I also wanted to know about a knife from episode 10 of season 2 (18 Miles Out). The knife in question is the one that Rick leaves for Randall to use. I don't know if it can be seen any better in any other episode but I know that Randall does eventually use it and I think I remember a few semi-close up shots of it.

:Yes, there are a few close-up shots of the knife Randall uses in Episode 10 of Season 2. It appears to be a sheath knife without any serrations on the blade, finger grooves on the grip, and a clip point. I checked the official Gerber website, but I was unable to see any knife pictured there which resembled this one. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 19:20, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

On the actual subject of the firearms used in the finale, I think Lori uses the Charter Arms Pug that Carl had earlier in the season. Daryl used a revolver I couldn't ID.... Looked like a .38 of some kind with a 4 or 5 inch barrel, but I'm not sure. [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 22:02, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

To add to that, Glenn was seen using Shane's Mossberg with the M4-style stock in the finale. (Shane no longer needed it.)
Hershel was also seen using, what I believe is the Remington 870 Wingmaster used by Dayrl in "Vatos"

== Logo on Carl's shirt ==
This is way off topic for IMFDB, but the logo on Carl's shirt in the episode "Better Angels", a black bear paw in front of a red atom, I know I've seen it elsewhere but I can't place it. At first I thought it was the old Blackwater logo, but the BW logo is a black bear paw in a red scope crosshair. Does anyone recognize it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:13, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

:The logo on Carl's shirt is for "Science Dog" - another comic book by the creator of TWD, Robert Kirkman. The comic book version of Carl has this same exact logo on his shirt too. Adding this level of detail to Carl's wardrobe in the TV series was a nice touch, I would say. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 07:01, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

== The guns of the survivors ==
Way back in episode one of the series we see Rick load up all of the available weapons from the precinct's armory for his journey to Atlanta. And while we've had about 18 episodes to ask the question we really haven't yet. If they weapons came from the police armory why do a good portion of the long guns appear to be hunting firearms? The Browning BAR, the Remington 700, the Remington 870 and such look out of place in the right context.

- Well, I think that the older wooden-furniture Remington 870 and the Remington 700 can be explained, as it is a small, rural County Sheriff's Office in Georgia. Before the widespread distribution of tactical sniper rifles, M16's and M4's across America's police departments, police were using other weapons, such as the Remington 700 and the Winchester Model 70 for that purpose. Also, we see Rick gathering up the weapons AFTER the outbreak. The Sheriff's officers could have grabbed the new firearms and left the older ones, which would still be in the armory for storage and reserve purposes. If the story was broadened, it would probably show the other Sheriff's deputy's taking tactical rifles and carbines to employ them in the field. [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]]

:One thing that always struck me as "unrealistic" about TWD has been the types and and amounts of guns depicted in seasons 1 and 2, along with the feelings of some of the characters toward guns. The setting for this show all along has been in Georgia, which in real life is a "red" pro-gun southern state with a longtime history of private gun ownership among a large percentage of the population. So far on TWD however, the way in which guns have been depicted seems somewhat more as if the show's setting has been in a "blue" anti-gun northeastern state like New Jersey!

:In real-life Georgia, I have no doubt that there are many civilians who own at least one semi-automatic rifle chambered for a military cartridge and a few high-capacity magazines for it, and that number probably increased by even more after Obama got elected in 2008. Bearing this in mind, I can't see why there would not have been at least a few people in that survivor's camp outside Atlanta during season 1 armed with something more than just hunting firearms and handguns. The two "redneck" characters in season 1 - Merle and Daryl - they would have both had tactical-type rifles and hidden caches of ammunition for them if it had been up to me. Rednecks in real life have been stockpiling ammunition ever since Obama got elected. Plus, seasons 1 and 2 have had two former cops in the group - Rick and Shane - but neither one of them have ever seen the need to acquire better firepower. There were M4's and other weapons scattered all around the outside of the CDC in season 1, but nobody thought to pick any of them up. If I had been Rick, I would have been constantly telling everybody else in the group all throughout seasons 1 and 2 to keep gathering up guns and ammunition whenever possible. That one black bag Rick loaded up at the police station's armory in the first episode of season 1 could not possibly have held enough ammunition to last all the way to the end of season 2.

:Then there were the anti-gun sentiments among some members in the group - Lori in season 1 and 2, and Hershel in season 2. Lori's objections to her son Carl learning how to shoot struck me as being a bit odd. Lori is supposed to be a housewife from a small town in the South who is married to a cop, not a soccer mom with a career from a liberal anti-gun upbringing. Being that Carl is the son of a southern small town cop, I think it would have been more realistic if he had already learned a few things about shooting from his dad Rick long before the outbreak. Hershel's attitude towards guns struck me as being most odd. Hershel is supposed to be a cattle rancher from rural Georgia, so when he said that he did want his property to become an "armed camp" from the group carrying guns around, I was shaking my head by then. Cattle ranchers in real life often have to keep a gun handy to kill coyotes and other pests. I doubt that coyotes would stay away from a farm or ranch with livestock on it after a zombie apocalypse starts. I would have to say that Hershel seemed to redeem himself later in season 2 when he said that he knew how to shoot, although he did not like to. In the season 2 finale however, Hershel seemed to be very much into showing off his shooting skills. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:43, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::I just want to say a couple of things about this rant. First, you are being very stereotypical about the South, thinking that everyone is a gun-toting redneck. I can speak from experience because I am from the most anti-gun state in the country, Massachusetts, I think I can guarantee that there are at least a few people living in the South who don't like firearms. Like I said, I am from Massachusetts, but I like guns, unlike most of the state and most of the Northeast for that matter, except New Hampshire of course. Also, the show takes place a few weeks after the zombie outbreak, most of the people with the military caliber firearms have probably long since left and moved to places they would think was safer. About Rick teaching Carl to shoot guns, he is a cop, so maybe he has seen people get badly hurt by guns, so he didn't want anything to happen to Carl. Hershel knows how to shoot pretty well. I am guessing by his hate for guns, he probably faced some kind of horrible incident in the past that resulted from him using a gun. Again, this is just speculation. In the season 2 finale, Hershel showed his shooting skills because by this time, his outlook on the undead had completely changed. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:01, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::We love our guns up here in New Hampshire! Rick teaching Carl about guns is a good thing and something that is needed. He'll be needing to use that gun more considering how the world has become with the Zombies. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:57, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

Talk:The Walking Dead (TV Series)

2012-03-09T02:34:34Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Daryl's pistol */

==OTHER==
That's Norman Reedus with the crossbow. He plays Daryl Dixon, who was not in the actual comic that I can recall. I like that though, he's a cool actor. I'm also a little bummed that they didn't use the guns drawn in the comics. Rick uses a HK mk.23. For those of you who might think that it's impossible to tell that from the comic the artist wrote HK MK.23 on the barrel. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I read some where that the Walker are attracted to loud noises. that might be why he is carrying a crossbow

It is smart to use a crossbow; because it saves on bullets and in most all undead literature and movies the undead always react and swarm when they hear a gunshot. Very good show, have never read the comic but look forward to.-GoshMr.Peabody

It's pretty amazing. I recommend buying the trade paperbacks. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Not only does a crossbow save on ammo and is silent, crossbow bolts can be retrieved and reused repeatedly before they bend, dull, break, or otherwise can't be used any longer. In effect, Daryl has essentially a near-infinite source of ammunition. As for Rick, I think the Python suits him better. It has personality, the Mark 23... not so much. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:43, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==Whoa==
I loved the comic, when the hell did it get a tv show?

The idea was revealed a while ago. It comes out on Halloween. -SasquatchJim

honestly , its like two hours till the show ,i cant wait. simmons 8492

Well it kept my interest. I'll watch it again next week to see if it can maintain the momentum.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

honestly it took some time to realy get things going , but now hes in a populated zone with other survivers . and if i was him id start that tank up! simmons 8492

I coulda sworn the 50 on that tank was still loaded with ammo and in the next scene, it had no ammo [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Just watched it again. The .50 on the tank doesn't appear to be loaded, but there's another one in a sandbag fort that is, in the foreground as he goes by. -IGemini 04:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

iv watched it from the start and i have to say its great simmons 8492

== Crappy dialogue ==

In the trailer, one of the cops told the other to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off. First off, the man he was talking to, had a Glock, so no safety. And since he's a trained cop, ready to open fire on a suspect that's hostile, why wouldn't he have a round in the chamber and his gun ready to go? That line just threw me off [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, just watched it. Its brilliant, easily as good as the comic. The 'crappy dialogue above does jar a little tho. Hes telling him to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off as it is implied the officer in question is a bit useless, however after doing a brass check the officer in question then presses down on the slide release (even tho the slide is forward) as if to pretend it is the saftey catch. Morgan has a 5 shot snub revolver (which someone else will have to identify as im not too good with em). Rick pull a 92fs (standing in for an m9) from a dead soldiers shoulder holster at the end of the episode, and i'm fairly sure the SIG is a tutone P228 or 229 not a P239 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe Basset is so damn useless that he hasn't even figured out that Glocks don't come with manual safeties... --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:28, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing about the thing with the safety is that you can hear the sound of a safety being click off.--[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 04:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Remember that the dialogue was written long before it was decided the cop would be holding a Glock(unless the writer is Michael Mann). So maybe the round in the chamber thing may have been unwarranted, but maybe he was a rookie, he did seem sort of skittish. Regardless, it's unfair to call ''that'' crappy dialogue. I think you're letting your knowledge of guns get in the way of enjoying good stories.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 04:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Dont know if its worth noting, but the cop he tells that too, is actually, the first zombie he ends up shooting, after leaving the police station. Rick commented he was careless and dumb, so reminding him, makes sense.

And, of course, Rick committed a cardinal sin; he referred to a magazine as a clip :P -SasquatchJim

I'm not surprised, Sasqatch. The cop I talked to called his Glock 17 a "Glock 9". I'm sure he would have said clip to. Not all cops are into guns. Haha

:He also could have meant "Glock 9mm", you know, since "9" is common shorthand for 9mm. When has anyone referred to .45 ACP as "11.43mm"? Hell, I once had a conversation with a Korean War vet about 1911s and when I referred to the cartridge by its dimensions, he had a dumbfounded look on his face and "corrected" me, telling me that the 1911A1 was "a 45, not no 11-something". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:51, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==SIG P239==

[[Image:WalkingDead-SIGP239.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|A chase suspect emerges from the wrecked car firing a two-tone SIG P239 at police.]]

This doesn't look like a P239 to me; more like a P226 or P228. It's too big, and it has nickel controls (which the two-tone P239s don't have). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:P228 because of the slide length. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Remember, on low resolution screencaps like the ones I had to use, feel free to correct the Gun IDs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::: Watching the scene I agree that it is somewhat larger. Sounds fine to me - I'll change it. The first episode was pretty good. I'm adding a Beretta 92FS (M9) entry - Grimes indeed takes one off a 'dead' soldier inside the Abrams tank he gets into, as noted by the above section. Also, I never did get a good glance at the snub revolver, though I'm fairly certain it's a S&W. They're replaying the show so I'll keep an eye for it, and some of the other guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

==Spoiler Comment and Morgan's Revolver==
Its nice to see the page updated but arn't some of the descriptions (mainly the colt python) a bit spoilerific for anyone who hasn't watched it yet? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Whoa, yes they are, I sure as hell didn't add those. :b I'll reword them somewhat. Also! The revolver Morgan uses is a Snub S&W Model 66, I can almost guarantee it. Bah, wish I could get screencaps. Still, I'll add that as well. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure its a 66? I remember it having a 5 round cylinder --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I grabbed this off my skyplus box so sorry bout the quality [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2i700fm.jpg[/IMG] Any use, its definatly a 5 shot--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: I could have ''sworn'' it was a S&W. But it's definitely not a Model 66, since there's no rear adj. sights, nor of course a 6-shot cylinder. But Smith snubbie J-frames (5-shot) all have flat 'bull-nose' ejector rod shrouds, not curved. Bah, now I'm kinda stumped. My best guess at this point would probably be a [[Ruger SP101]]. Convert that image there to JPG and upload it on the site. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::Looks like it could also be either the [[Taurus Model 617]] or possibly a stainless steel [[Taurus Model 85]]. Biu it is difficult.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

From the barrel it looks like an early Taurus Model 85 in stainless or nickel plated. It was a five shot cylinder definitely.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: After posting I did consider it being a Taurus, many of them are awfully S&W looking to begin with. I doubt it's a 617 but it easily could be an 85. Hell, could be anything for all I know at this point. I guess it'll just be another 'unidentified' until we get more/better screencaps. I'll modify the S&W 66 entry I posted and just call it un-ID'd snub revolver, noting the 5-shot capacity and stating the possible choices. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I am almost certain it is actually a Ruger SP101, two inch model. No other snubbie, as far as I know, has the upper rear of the frame shaped into a rear sight notch like the SP101, as both of those Taurus models just lack rear sights - you can check the Taurus website as both models lack a "rear sight" category under specifications. Also, if you check out the behind the scenes vid [http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/?bclid=625294007001&bcpid=111717822001&bctid=628200502001 here], there is a pretty decent side shot of the revolver. The general shape is very close to a SP101, and even from the front, the lines on Morgan's triggerguard and barrel are cut much closer semi-melted look on the SP than the very sharp ones on a Taurus oR S&W.

All said, the easiest way to tell would be if they showed the damned cylinder release at some point. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 07:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC) (Corrected typo --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 02:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

: It's not an SP101. The recoil shield shown is a simple traditional shape, not the bulkier contours Rugers have in that part of the frame. Also, the ejector rod shroud is cut back more sharply from the muzzle, and the revolver in the show seems to lack the small hole on the front of the frame for the front crane lock. [[User:Rule .303|Rule .303]] 14:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Judging by the screens uploaded I'd say definately not a 617, 617 is a 7-shot, also can't see a ported barrel. Still think it's a Taurus though. [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 09:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

If you watch the Making of the Walking dead Season 1 it shows the side of the revolver.. Looks exactly like the Ruger SP101 from Breaking Bad. I'm guessing its the same prop. (Just like I think the RV is. )

: It's definately not a Ruger SP101. As to the comment of the SP101 being unique with regards to the rear notch site. Nope. All snubbies have that. I have both the Taurus 85 (old shape) and the Taurus 85 Stainless. Looks much more like that due to the unique underlug on the revolver. Also look at the SP101's front. http://www.dayattherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sp101target8.jpg Definately not what we are seeing in these screen captures. [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 07:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It appears to be a Taurus 405 to me. Looks large-bored, probably .40S&W so that would match the 405. The front sight is tiny from that back angle which also matches the 405, the cylinder backing plate is the same etc. krispic 21:36 Feb 22 2012

== What kind of tank was that? ==

Its oviously a stand-in for an M-1 but I'm not sure what it is. I'm thinking possibly a Chieftain, but I'm not sure. Also, note that a real M-1 woulnd't have worked for the scene since it lacks the floor escape hatch.

-AC.

:I'm also reasonably certain the 82nd Airborne Division doesn't have tanks in their TO&E, yet the (un)dead soldier in the tank had an 82nd patch on his left shoulder. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:32, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Well i would imagine that in the chaos of the zombie apocalypse lots of soldiers ended up with other units doin jobs they aren't really trained for.

Actually smaller units are frequently attached (I believe the Brits call it seconded) to other units for mission purposes. Some armor battalions spent the whole campaign in France (WW II, 1944-1945) being attached to various infantry units - to include the airborne. After all the elements of the 9th and 10th armor divisions that were in Bastogne during the siege fell under the 101st Airborne for the duration of that battle. Funny how the airborne mafia always seems to forget about all the ''other'' troops that fought in that battle. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:17, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

At this point I'm not sure, but I do suspect it's the same tank that shows up in ''[[Zombieland]]''. Both shows are filmed in Georgia and the voice-over commentary on ''Zombieland'' states that the tank is owned by a private collector.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Definately a Chieftain.

: I concur, Chieftains are often used (mocked-up) as stand-ins for Abrams tanks. I also noticed the bottom escape hatch, which as far as I can recall, indeed isn't on an actual Abrams. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

''Other comments posted on main page-''

(Perhaps it is just me, but the Abrams featured in this appears to be a mocked up British Chieftain Tank, I didn't get a good look at the tank but it didn't seem to be a genuine Abrams, although it could simply be an older pattern M1 without the TUSK upgrade, reactive armor and the more apparent loaders hatch. Yet that would not explain the escape hatch.- Doc345)

Older M1s didn't look that diffrent, from the later ones, aside from the most recent upgardes.

Also, the angle of the frontal turret armor is wrong to be an M1.

I think this may be the same tank which appeared in, among other series, Jericho. The vehicle, if I remember correctly, is built on an old Centurion chasis to resemble an Abrams with some obvious differences. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

On a random note, where was a Striker seen in the episode? It says on the page that there was one with a fifty cal on it, but aside from the tank, the only other military vehicles I saw where some HMMWVs, what looked like a deuce, and a half, and some abandone Hueys.

Intrestingly, in the trailor, the one Rick first sees after leaving the hospital lacked a rotor blade making me think it was edited in post-production. Also, the one off to Ricks left appears to still be lacking one.

-AC

at the begging seen when the main cerictor walkes out of the hospital he sees a ebandoned military equpent you can see a Stryker IFV --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 21:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
heres a picture
[[Image:The walking dead.png]]

I can say without a doubt that the 'M1' ''is'' a Chieftain, not a Centurion. The long sloping frontal 'nose' armour, the front idler wheel and the lockers/storage bins are features of the Chieftain, not the Centurion. Not too sure about the 'escape hatch' though. I wonder if this is the same 'M1' that appears in the 2010 remake of Red Dawn? It looks the same to me. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

*Naw, that one they've actually made some modifications to like building up the hull and turret to be more Abrams-like and putting an M1-style bulge over the cylindrical fume extractor. This is just a Chieftain with a fake M2 awkwardly perched on top of the hatch weapon mounting. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:07, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

== Things I noticed ==

Did anybody else notice that when Morgan cocked the hammer back on his gun and threatened to shoot Grimes if he didn't talk, the cylinder didn't advance to the next chamber like it should?

And what about Grimes' personal arsenal in his backpack? Is it safe to assume that rubber/resin mockups? He was getting bounced pretty hard by that horse and the guns kept bumping him in the back. That's at least 40 pounds of gear to be carrying around.

More than safe to assume that. Most of them even appeared to have solid barrels. Probably rubber.--[[Special:Contributions/99.48.50.70|99.48.50.70]] 04:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The cylinder did rotate, I remembered that happening when I watched the scene. As far as the bag -o- guns, I have no idea. If they were all rubber, they were modeled after some hard to find shotgun configurations and looked very real. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 20:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Grimes in episode 3 his duffle bag was holding six shotguns, two "high powered" rifles, a dozen handguns, and 700 rounds of assorted ammo. That's easily 80-90 pounds of gear. There's no way Grimes could be carrying that around in one hand with a gas can in the other. Or getting bucked and having the bag sag to the side and the stuff not come falling out.

Did anybody else notice that Dale seemed to switch between carrying a rifle with a sling, to carrying one without a sling between scenes?

== I rewatched the first episode. ==

Two of the Sheriffs deputys from the neighboring county had shotguns. One looked like and 870 Remington. The other looked like a Mossberg.

The gun used to shoot Rick, I'm pretty sure was either 1911, or a Glock. It seemed to have an extended slide.

-AC

:: I noticed the shotguns too but it was hard to get a decent look at them, mainly the second one (Mossberg I guess). I will concur at least one of the other shotguns was indeed a standard 870. No idea what the pistol is/was. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Almost positive the other two deputys, from the neighboring county had Glocks, like the other deputys from Ricks department.

You can see one of the shotguns fairly well, after Rick gots shot, one of the two deputys joins Shane in trying to help Rick. Like Shane, he drops his gun, and it can be seen fairly well.

Looking at the pick on here, I'm more positive than ever that the last gunmans weapon was a 1911.
Good eye on my part, since it was litreally visible for like less than a second.-AC.

==Andrea's gun==
I believe Andrea is packing a Smith and Wesson 3913 Ladysmith [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I concur. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Here's a good picture. http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-2-rick-andrea.php
[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:: I also agree about it being a 3913 Ladysmith. We also saw a M67 'baseball' grenade in this latest episode (actually the training version, you could still spot some blue paint on it). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of rifle did Meryl have? ==

Looked like possibly a Model 70, but I'm bad at identifing bolt actions.
-AC

Seriously, does anyone know what kind of rifle he had?-AC

Compare the bolt heads (or whatever the end of the bolt closest to the butt is called); the Remington 700 seems to have more of a protruding portion, while the Mod. 70 is tucked in and more square-like.

At least, that's what it seems like. There used to be a generic page for comparing Bolt-Action Rifles, like the shotguns have now. Where did that page go?

Here it is.

[[Bolt Action Rifles - Most common Sporting Models|Scoped Bolt Action Hunting Rifles]]. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

==Shane's Pistol==
Can anyone identify the pistol Shane is carrying? It looks like either a Glock or possibly a Sig Pro. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Probally a Gock. There very common cop guns, in both hollywood, and real life. Also, severael of the cops, at opening shootout had them, so evedently the prophouse they went to had some.
-AC

Definitely a Glock. Although it's only shown briefly, it looks like a 17. He carries it in a thumb break holster. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

Picture of him holding it: http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-4-carl-lori-shane-morales.php

After looking at the screenshot on the main page, can anyone identify the holster?

In the finale you can see its a Glock 19. Not 17. (Also the firing M4s looked like they had blank firing adapters as flashiders)

Definitely a 17 in the last episode when shane opens the barn doors and shhots all the walkers he fires too many rounds for it to be a 19

This is getting tiresome now, stop identifying guns based on the amount of rounds that they fire! It's a TV series where in editing they can easily make a 15 round magazine last for 80 rounds (see John Woo films) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:27, 2 January 2012 (CST)

==Merle==

It's Merle not Maryl or Marle

==Guts==
I really like how Rick actually checks the dead soldier's vest for more ammo instead of just taking the weapon like every other film. I also like how when his Beretta runs dry he doesn't toss it away like some generic action hero but he keeps it and stows it in Glenn's backpack. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that was good stuff. Have yet to see the Beretta again though. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:Did you also notice that his [[Colt Python]] is still in his hoslter even though he ran out of ammo for it? I liked that touch as well. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

You never know what you might find ammo for at a latter date.-AC
::Which he does in the third episode. Anyway Python's are too expensive to be tossing away on a whim. Even after the Zombie Apocalypse has happened. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

If I recall right they've been outta production since the late 90s.

::The last Python was manufactured approximately six years ago. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Still outta production than. If I recall right, for a while it was outta generael production, but could be special ordered.

Yes the last five or six years it had to be ordered through the custom shop.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The Python, and The Anaconda, where the best revolvers Colt made since the SAA imho-AC

IMO, the Official Police and Detective Special should be included as well. -SasquatchJim

Too bad that still fully loaded .50 next to the tank is too heavy to take back [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If he can walk and ride a horse with a 90lb bag on his back like its nothing, he could carry a M2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

And he brought buddies with him to GET that bag he left behind. They can lug around an M2 with ammo. Sure it doesn't look like there's any extra, but it's an M2 with AMMO! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

But honestly, what would be the purpose, in this story? I mean, they're already getting guns and ammo, and it's not like you need a lot of penetration to kill a zombie, so they don't really need a .50 caliber machinegun. All it would really do was kill a couple of zombies while making a shitload of noise, attracting every zombie in a mile radius. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 05:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

: I bet one would've come in handy on top of the camper during the attack on the camp. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::Possibly (I posted that before I saw that episode, sorry.), though I doubt any of them have any training or even any practice with military grade machine guns, and so I'm betting that during the chaos of the attack, they would have killed more of their own people. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:43, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
::: Woulda been kinda hard to use that thing in the dark, too, since the only source of light is that campfire. Scoring headshots on zombies without friendly fire in a situation like that? No way even TV-land can pull THAT one off.

Talking about scavenging guns, even when they were rushing back to the vehicles in front of the CDC wouldn't it have been a good idea to at least grab a couple of the discarded weapons lying around out front?

==Vatos==
Ok, tonight I think I've seen a S&W model 10, a Colt Detective Special, and possibly a S&W mosel 28 in the hands of the mexican gangsters and it looks like T-Dog was using a BAR. The bag had some Sigs and Glocks and Daryl had a Remington 870 and I think that Rick is using a Mossberg 590 not a 500. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't edit the page tonight, I just wrote on here. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Daryl took at least one Sig from the bag. T-Dog used a Mossberg later, but I think his scoped rifle was a BAR. The shotty Glenn ended up with, looked the same as Daryl's. Also, Shane drew his pistol at one point, but it was hard to see.-AC
==Daryl's Crossbow==
Daryl Dixon's crossbow is a Horton Scout HD 125: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2817217&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch. In the fourth episode "Vatos", when Daryl points it a T-dog on the roof you can see the faded Horton logo on the front. Scout 125 can be seen above the trigger after the camera angle changes. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

::Picture added and changes made. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Was that an XD? ==

The handgun, that Daryl takes from the bag of guns. At first I thought it was a SIG, but after rewatching it, I think it may have been a Springfield Army XD.
-AC

Nope, definitely a bi-tone Sig of some kind.

Yeah, the XDs don't have all that stuff on the side of the gun and the slide is actually more Glock like than the more rounder Sig slides [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Walkingdeadsig.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rick Grimes ([[Andrew Lincoln]]) inspects a bi-tone Sig Sauer handgun from his bag of guns.]]

- ZeoRanger5 17:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

that looks like a SIG-sauer P226 or P228. simmons 8492

I agree with simmons 8492, i'd say p228 myself.

How did you think that was an XD?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 14:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. When I stuck it in his waistband, it looked like a combination between a Sig, and a Glock. As far as handguns go, I'd say the XD is closest to that description. Course I was rather sleep deprived at the time.-AC

i also think that in episode 5 shane pulls what looks to be a sig when the sister is coming back to life . im not sure because i know shane has a glock but this isnt in the holster , its carried mexican style and is only seen for seconds. can some one verify ?[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Rick also pulls a gun carried similarily in that scene. Ricks looked like a Glock.

but shanes looks more like a sig or something .[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Some ones gotta move that pic into the 228 spot.[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:It's not a P228. The screencap doesn't show it well, but I checked the episode again, and it's possible to see that it has the squared trigger guard of the P226, rather than rounded, as on a P228. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

==Faking recoil==

Its a littlle overdone but nice to see it (a HP in 9mm doesnt kick as much as shown, but its better than most shows, and handling is pretty good or tv.

may be because he hasent realy fired a 9mm in a while he wasnt use to it or because hes used to the revovler

That makes no sense, .357 Magnum (I'm guessing thats what is loaded) has alot more kick, if he can handle a .357 than he could easily handle a 9mm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:02, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

and im sure that a python has more kick than that highpower . and being that he killed a hand full of zombies with that in the first episode it wont matter .-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:Just a FYI, its Hi Power, not High Power.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Since most people don't know the distinction between a Hi-Power and a Colt M1911, and the show is known to have certain..flaws when it comes to reality, they could have just been assuming that it was a .45, and Hollywood logic states that if it's larger than 9mm, it makes your wrist fly up and sends bad guys flying.

Or it was just because they wanted Rick to seem cool with a stainless steel firearm (like his Colt Python, which he points at other survivors so often, it could be a drinking game).

But being seriously, this is the same show where Glocks have external, slide-mounted safeties in the US and headshots can be made off-hand with a sidearm at 50 meters while running.

AUA/

:I haven't been able to watch the series only the first episode (no cable) but... The Python is a heavy revolver and could be loaded with .38 Specials. Also with the Hi-Power being a semi-auto and able to shoot more rapidly. Would have more perceived recoil. Seeing guys on YouTube handle .45s with very little recoil, it's shotguns and full auto rifles where movies get recoil wrong. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==DShK heavy machine gun?==

I believe there was an abandoned DShK heavy machine gun flanked by sandbags when they headed towards the CDC building by the looks of the muzzle. (This was the best episode so far, I think.) - Angel_956

Most likely a mocked up M2 but I definatly saw that distinct muzzle brake.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I added a cap but you cannot really tell one way or another if it is a mock up or not. Either way...it makes no sense for it to be there in the first place!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was thinking. Why would an outdated Soviet Union machine gun even be in the show, but it might be cleared up in the next episode. I clearly remember the guy in the CDC building saying something about some French soilders, I think. If so it might of meant that there was an international response to the zombie outbreak, trying to control it, explaining the DShK. [[User:Angel_956|Angel_956]]

:Now your just over-analyzing, it's in all likeliness what they used because it's what was available to use when they were shooting the scene. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe somebody "requisitioned" (read: looted) it from the National Infantry Museum or Fort Benning; both are in or around Columbus, GA, which isn't exactly close to Atlanta, but it's the closest place I can think of where you might plausibly find a DShK. When you need more HMGs, you grab what's available. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 20:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Weird though, since they obviously had M2s available for filming.-AC

:Not necessarily. Armorers can change during filming and weapons may not be available even though they were previously. Also remember that only the first episode had the M2 so the armorer could have changed since then. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, those M2HBs are still there in episodes 2 ("Guts," when Grimes escapes from the tank) and 4 ("Vatos," when Glenn goes to retrieve the Bag O' Guns) and they pass at least two M2HBs on the way to the CDC's front door after they pass the DShK. They weren't just there for the pilot. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 09:18, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

My thought was militia that made a last stand with the army to protect the people gathering at the CDC (notice the weapon is surrounded by bodies in civilian clothes), the DShK having been purchased by one of the members (legitimately or otherwise) and subsequently put to use following the outbreak. - Wolfblade670

Maybe the Russians dropped in tom VDV to help protect the CDC. -Jakezergling

:I, umm, highly doubt that... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:30, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, Russia would have enough trouble fighting the Walkers on their own turf, considering that Russia is easily 2 times the size of continental United States. Besides that, do the Russians even use the DshK anymore? I do believe it's been phased out by the Kord since the late 90s/early 2000s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:18, 27 February 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's knife ==

In the third episode, when Daryl is told about his brother, he attacks Rick with some sort of hunting or combat knife. He's later seen with it in a sheath on his left thigh, and you get a fairly close (But very brief) look at it when they're walking through the building at the beginning of the forth episode. Anyone have any clue what it is? I mean, from the brief glimpse I got of it in the forth episode, it looked like it was possibly a TOPS Steel Eagle 107C, the same kind of knife that the character Royce had sheathed in Predators, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm, or give an alternative? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

It's actually a Busse Combat Team Gemini with a bead blasted finish and black and tan layered g10. Gerber is now supplying knives to the show as well, as seen in the season 2 premiere when Carl finds a full roll in and abandon vehicle. The list of models is on their FB page. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

: I would agree that Daryl does have a Busse Combat Team Gemini. A clear profile-type photo of Daryl's knife was featured in the "story sync" for the eighth episode of the second season on the AMC website. Here's a link to that image: http://www.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/208-17.jpg --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:24, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== What kind of gun did he give Morales? ==

He said it was a .357, but I have no idea what it was.-AC

/AUA

He held it in his hand for a profile shot; maybe you should try screencapping it at that point and going from there. There should be an ID for it though, unlike Morgan's snubnose.

AUA/

I lack the equipment needed to screencap.-AC

/AUA

Use IrfanView (freeware) or the PrtScn button on your computer (press it on the frame you want to capture, and then paste it into Paint to crop it).

AUA/

I think it's a Smith and Wesson 586 [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

== Rick's second shotgun.==

After Rick gives the 590 (it wasn't a 500, someone should change that) to Guillermo, he uses one with an 18 inch barrel, a blued type finish and wood furniture. I think some people commented on it being a Mossberg, but it has a rounded bolt like a Remington 870. However, it's not an 870 since the trigger guard isn't round enough, the magazine tube is longer than the standard 4 shot tube, and it doesn't have an extension attached, and the wood furniture has a single rib on the side for gripping. After doing some research, my best guess is that it's an earlier H&R Pardner Pump, possibly in some sort of police configuration. I know it's neither a Mossberg or a Remington, though.

It's indeed an H&R Pardner Pump. The humpback receiver is unmistakable. [Ballistics_Expert2]

/AUA

I'd PrtScn/screencap the shotgun in question before making any comparisons. We still haven't definitively IDed Dale's bolt-action, so maybe you should get one of that as well.

AUA/

We still have Merles bolt-action as well.
-AC

This cap from the page will suffice:

[[Image:WD870ep05.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Rick with his Remigton, when he and Shane patrol the woods (Episode 5).]]

And a link to a Pardner Pump configured similarly:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/TRguy/Guns/NEFPardnerPumpYouth8-12-10.jpg

A few things distinguishing the shotgun in the picture as a Pardner Pump as opposed to an 870, 500 series, or whatever:

-Some type of thin rib on the top of the barrel.
-The foregrip has the distinctive groove in it as seen on the Pardner Pump.
-The agnle that the receiver curves at the butt end is a sharper angle rather than a bend type (you can tell by the shadow).
-The magazine tube is longer than a 4 shot, but it's not screwed on like other models, nor does the endcap and barrel link resemble that of other models.

Some other things that you can't notice in the picture, like the flatter trigger guard or a good shot of the angled receiver, are seen in the series very easily, namely in Episode 5 during Rick and Shane's patrol, when this cap takes place, and one instance in Episode 6 where the doctor is drawing blood and the gun is sitting behind Rick as he waits. This good enough? --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 10:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think you're right, it's not a Remington, Mossberg, or a Winchester. It looks like a Pardner, more like the Pardner pump compact, due to the shorter barrell. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 23:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

-Rick's first shotgun was a 500 with the extended tube. It didn't have the bayonet lug, just check some of the promo pics on imbd.com - [[User:MarkXIX|MarkXIX]]

Ah, so it is, I could have sworn I saw the 590s tube cap on it. I can notice a buncha stuff on an H&R, but I get that wrong, lol. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 17:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Rick's shotgun, from the end of Vatos and on, was a Pardner Pump, but I don't think it was a 20 gauge. Sometimes, hunting model guns can have the vent-rib barrel cut down, to where it is a riot shotgun. I see that as being more plausible. --[[User:1897Reloaded|1897Reloaded]] 11:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

==Think its funny==

Rick misses several close range shots (so do long gun toting officers) in the beginning against chase suspects, then later in series hes nailing headshots left and right....

Noticed that too, although zombies don't shoot back. They just charge straight ahead.

/AUA

It's a screenplay-direction thing. The show is already a bit overdramatized in general, so little things like the 'clip' and 'safety' dialogue or the headshot ratio aren't really all that important to the screenwriters, at least not compared with inserting dramatic bits into it.

AUA/

When the police were shooting the chase suspects, their targets were live people. An accurate marksman or not, if you're not used to firing live rounds at live humans your subconscious may not want you to hit that kill shot. Zombies are different.

also he has had weeks of shooting live targets ie the zombies so he as probaly leared to shot them really well --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Unless you're superhuman, you can't learn how to make a shot that is off-hand, behind you, at a 1.5 x 1 ft target at 50 meters, while RUNNING, in a few weeks. Few people would be able to make that shot, period. The gate-zombie shots were just...unfeasible.

AUA/

*Well it is a show about the dead walking around and eating the flesh of the living. I'm willing to overlook the amazing skill that Rick displays with headshots.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:28, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

==Question about Shane's shotgun technique==
Just a question for those who may know, is it considered proper technique to hold the gun that high on the shoulder, with his cheek resting on the receiver? I figuered it was an adjustmant made due to the M4-style stock, as Rick and other survivors wielding unmodified weapons don't do this.

: I noticed that too, I figured it was just the actor's preference (possibly due to inexperience) but I guess it could be because of the M4 stock. I dunno. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

:It's standard practice in the US military. They teach you to ride the stock high so that your sights are level with your eyes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Thats with the M16/M4, not a shotgun.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:the stock on the shotgun is a Knoxx Industries SpecOps NRS Shotgun Stock

::My dad has one on his 870.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

-i noticed that . i dont think that stock has a single thing to do with it . it probably prefrances [[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Series Finale==

I noticed a nickel finished pistol tucked into Daryl's waistband mexican style early on in the episode, looked like a SIG.
I'm thinking that Daryl's pistol was probably the same Hi-Power Rick took off merle in episode 2.

Does any one else think the grenade description is a bit of a spoiler as it is a deus ex machina. I suggest only saying it is used in episode 6 and not how. I know this has absoloutely nothing to do with firearms but i loved the ax decapitation amidst the headshots at the end --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

:The grenade wasn't a deus ex machina, but a textbook example of Chekhov's gun. He found it in the first episode even. It would have been a deus ex machina if they found it there.(I expected him to actually bring it out against the guys in the city in episode 3, myself)--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 08:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, New guy here. When Jenner allows the the others to enter the facility at the start of the episode, he's seen holding an M4, and he mentions that "There're a lot of these lying around. I familiarized myself." And yet, none of the others ever even think of finding a couple of the guns for themselves. Shame, considering a couple of those and a few mags would've come in pretty handy outside (especially if there was a suppressor to be found) Anyone else bugged by this?

They've been sitting outside for like a month. The M4 is a fine, gun, but you need to clean it regularly.-AC

:Only if your in the desert sand, sitting around like that outside would be fine but not how I would store my guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I was definitely bugged by this fact. Supposedly a lot of M4s and 30 round magazines lying around, and Jenner's the only guy who has one. But then again the supply of ammo might've been low, considering everything that'd happened. [[Ballistics_Expert2]]

first off all there are no M4A1`s seen inside all out side wicth iswere he probily got it second they were only out side for a few momints ehter runing away from the bulding or trying to get in before they are over welbed with zombies tird as he said ammo is preety rare as you can see when they are out side there are hunderdes of dead zombies witch had to be killed by something --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== To Do List. ==

1. Shotguns used by deputies in opening shootout.
2. Morgans revolver.
3. Merles rifle.
4. The guns, Rick, and Shane pull after Amy turns.
5. The gun given to Morales.
6. Daryls handgun.
7. Whether Shanes Glock is a 17 or 19.
8. Whether Ricks first shotty was a 500 or a 590.
9. Ricks second shotty.

I miss anything?-AC

==Short Season Huh?==

At least season 2 will be twice as long, whenever they get around to making it.....

At least there will be a seaon two, I thought this was a miniseries at first and was very dissapointed that it was over so soon. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 01:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

It's definately already in production. Normally when a series gets picked up production on the second season gets rolling ASAP. This became a pretty popular show, show I'm guessing AMC got the ball rolling right away when they realized they had demand for the show. Anyone here read the graphic novel series? I want to try and get into it but want to know if it's worth the time and money--[[User:Burgershot621|Burgershot621]] 05:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

They really are worth it. I buy the trade paperbacks, they are like $12.00 a book. There are 13 of them up to now. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Personaaly i prefer the graphic novels. Dont get me wrong i love the series, but the comics are much more grim and dark, in the series everyone seems to be more willing to get along and its more zombie orientated, the comics are much more grim, its about the characters and in the comic no characters are safe, even mainstay ones. The tv series feels slightly more commercialised and main characters have outlived their comic book life already. I do love the tv version, and darly dixion is the best non comic character creation to be added to the series, I just hope Carl gets a gun next series, that said and cant belive i have to wait till october to see series 2.- Captain Snikt [[Special:Contributions/109.157.4.163|109.157.4.163]] 23:58, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

== Popular Cop Guns ==
An answer above said that the Glock was "a very common cop gun, in both hollywood, and real life." This is true, but I was wondering if their were any other cop guns in hollywood and in real life that are as popular as the Glock.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The Beretta 92 is the only one that comes to mind for me. -SasquatchJim.

:There aren't too many police depts issuing the Beretta 92F anymore, even though Hollywood still shows them being carried by cops. Anyway, Glock holds just under 2/3rds of the U.S. law enforcement market, SIG-Sauer holds about 1/3rd, and a number of other makes (S&W, H&K, Beretta, etc.) are constantly fighting each other for what's left. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

SIG-Sauer P226, S&W M19/66, AR-15, and many more... --[[User:nkingman|nkingman]]

Ah, that's right.
Some older ones include the S&W Model 10, S&W Model 28, Colt Trooper, and a 12 gauge pump shotgun (namely a Remington 870.)
Another new one is the S&W M&P -SasquatchJim

There was once a time when the S&W Model 15/67, the S&W Model 13/65. Colt Official Police, Ruger Six Series revolvers, the S&W Model 19/66 and the Colt Lawman/Trooper Mk III were also very popular Cop revolvers.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:40, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

== Flash suppressor on M4A1 ==

Did anyone else notice the flash suppressor on the M4A1 held by the soldier that gets grabbed is different than normal?
:I thought it was a nongun.--[[Special:Contributions/129.89.179.105|129.89.179.105]] 01:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)(thePotShot)
::Just for reference,
::[[Image:M4A1nongun.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M4A1 Non Gun]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Yeah, it's a Non Gun M4. Look at the range at which he's shooting at his comrades. Blanks are dangerous if an actor is shooting at other actors who are that close, so they probably had to use the Non Gun instead. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:57, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, the Aimpoint M68 CCO (in this case I believe it is a Comp M2 or ML2) can be used with the foreward lens cover closed. Used in this method, it forms an occuladed eye-sight, which were one of the first types of weapons optics employed. Using an occuladed eye-sight is very similar in principle to the BAC method employed in some Trijicon ACOGs, both eyes are left open and due to the way the brain processes images from the eye, what the left (or right eye sees) downrange has the red dot from the other eye (which is looking down the sight) superimposed on it. This is useful as there are rumors that the red dot (particularly in the Aimpoint family) can in fact be detected from in front of the weapon due to the intensity of the light, espiecially in night battle conditions. So the sceintist might really know what he is doing, but it is just as likely it was a mistake by the prop department.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 22:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== I liked Rick's reaction when he pulled the pin on the grenade in the last episode ==

He was thinkin "ohshitohshitohshitohshit" and then hauled ass outta there haha. I liked that little detail, along with him getting knocked off his feet as he tried to get as far away from it as possible, instead of the clichè "walk slowly towards the camera as a bomb goes off behind you with a bad-ass grimace on your face". This show had a lot of nice little details like that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I liked that too. i hate when like the everyday joe can slowly walk away from a huge explosion,[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

I like the way that he pulled the pin and had the "Oh my GOD!" moment when he suddenly realised that he needed to run fast. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:49, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

== Season 2 ==

Anyone seen the trailer yet for the second seaons? It's been out for a few weeks now. I jus--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)t thought it was interesting that it hasn't been mentioned here.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

I don't have the equipment for getting screencaps from TV, but the revolver Daryl took from the camper who committed suicide looks like either a Colt Cobra or Detective Special. The structure doesn't look right for being a S&W Model 10 or Model 36/37. And the slender grip profile and lack of an ejector rod housing eliminates the possibility of it being a Taurus.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

I was rewatching the season 2 premier episode and I noticed something that irked me a bit concerning the scene at the tent where Daryl found the Colt revolver. This is a series known for a great deal of firearms safety and consideration. But here we have an example of typical Hollywood gun handling. Nobody checked to see how many live rounds were in it, they just assumed it was still loaded and ready to be used. For all we know Daryl handed Laurie an empty weapon for taking on the trail back to the RV.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

==Gerber Bag of Knives==

Carl ([[Chandler Riggs]]) found this bag in the first episode of the second season which contained six different gerber tool knives and machetes.

[[Image:Gerber-Zombie-Apocolypse-Knives.jpg|thumb|none|500px| So long as you use a knife, there's still a little love left.]]

In the Season 2 props video on the AMC website, they explain the endorsement and show some of the gear. The prop master also gives a look at Rick's character specific items, which includes a [http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000582-Modified-Partially-Serrated/dp/B004DT26ME/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319921541&sr=8-2 DMF Folder]. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:58, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

Some of this bag is anachronistic though, as the knives were not invented until after the zombie apocalypse destroyed humanity, and presumably the Gerber factory. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:21, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

How do you know that though? As far as I can remember there hasn't been a date mentioned for when the zombie apocalypse happened, it could be set in the very near future. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:30, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:What I meant is that some of the knives have been released since the series started airing, and I'm assuming that the first episode wasn't set in the future. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:41, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
::Fair enough. I do think of it like well they haven't really set an actual date on when it occurs so anything "new" that shows up in the show is either there to look cool or it's there for some sort of product placement. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:33, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::Or both. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:35, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::: Touche --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:08, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

== Morgan's Revolver ==

The revolver that Morgan uses is a S&W model 60

:It can't be the Model 60 because of the curved ejector shroud. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:38, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Season 2 spoiler-ish descriptions ==

I feel like a lot of the description "updates" on the guns used (or re-used, as applicable) in Season 2 are giving too much info away. Definitely enough to qualify as spoilers to some people (like me). One shouldn't need to narrate the scene and context in which the gun appears, at least not to the extent some of the descriptions are- especially if it's giving away future happenings.

== M4 ==

I think the caption about the doctor not noticing the covers for the M68 is a little of a moot point. The doctor stated he wasnt familiar with the weapon, and simply picked it up when soldiers started dying or running away. -MissySummers-

== Dave and Tony's guns ==

In the eighth episode of the second season - "Nebraska" - two newcomers walk into the bar where Rick and Glenn found Hershel drinking alone. The strangers introduce themselves to Rick, Glenn, and Hershel as Dave and Tony. I had a difficult time identifying these two guns that Dave and Tony had. Dave's gun looked to me like it might be a SIG-Sauer P226. Tony's gun looked to me like it was some sort of sawn-off double-barrel shotgun - maybe an over/under style double barrel shotgun too. Did anybody get a good look at either one of these guns? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:52, 21 February 2012 (CST)

After watching the episode "Triggerfinger" it looks like hershel picked up Dave's pistol which looked to me like a SIG-SAUER P228 to me. And the big guy had a cutdown pump shotgun that I think was a Remington 870 and Rick was duel weilding it with his Python when they left the bar. The kid on the roof appeared to a have a bolt action rifle but it never showed a clear pic.

: I just watched the "Nebraska" and "Triggerfinger" episodes again back to back. I would have to agree with you now on Dave's gun. It appears that Dave actually did bring a SIG-Sauer P228 into the bar in the "Nebraska" episode. I got a better look at this gun in the "Triggerfinger" episode when Hershel was armed with it. I could tell this gun was a P228 because the trigger guard was curved instead of hooked like the P226 has, plus the barrel and slide on this gun were shorter than what the P226 has. I looked very closely at Tony's shotgun too, but I don't agree with you on this one. There's no way it could have been a Remington 870. I would still say that it is a sawn-off, over/under, double barrel shotgun. (Just my opinion here, but a sawn-off shotgun would be a piss-poor gun for defending yourself against a zombie horde that is coming at you. The shot spread pattern on a sawn-off shotgun would be way too wide to be effective on any zombie's head beyond short range, and it's better to kill multiple zombies from a distance than at point blank range, right?) I also noticed that Glenn had Tony's shotgun later on in the "Triggerfinger" episode. I agree with you about that the kid on the roof though - he sure seemed to have a bolt action rifle with a scope mounted on it. What happened to it is the question now. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 15:59, 22 February 2012 (CST)
I just watched it again and I swore I heard a cocking sound so that could make it a pump action shotgun. You were right its not a pump action i believe its a over/under gun. [[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

: TV shows and movies usually have the cocking sound effects for guns added in for dramatic purposes. (For example, it seems that we often hear the cocking sound effect every time the script calls for one character to point a gun at somebody or something. In real life, guns are normally silent when this happens.) The Walking Dead seems to be just such a TV show. I don't know how to screen capture this yet, but I paused episode 208 at the 43:15 mark. I could clearly see the underside of Tony's gun there, and I did not see things on this gun such as a loading port, or a slide piece, both of which would be consistent with a pump action shotgun. It was all dark on that part of the shotgun instead, which to me seems more consistent with a double barrel, over/under, break action shotgun than with a pump action shotgun. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:55, 23 February 2012 (CST)

: I couldn't get a good look at Tony's shotgun in either "Nebraska" or "Triggerfinger". At first glance it looked like a cut down Winchester 1887 (like in T-2). I was wondering if anyone else happened to think that too? Also it almost looked like it had a synthetic stock on it which made me think it could have been the Chiappa T-Series 1887, but I don't know if those are availible yet, but again I didn't get a good enough look at it.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 20:10, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::It is a sawn off over and under (although it may be purpose made as it appeared to have a front sight present). You get a look at the gun when the guy gets up to piss, and after he is shot you see a front view of the gun showing that it is two open barrels rather than a barrel with a magazine tube underneath. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::: You're right. After rewatching the episode online and pausing just after he gets shot I could see the two barrels and also could see there is no lever either.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 22:57, 23 February 2012 (CST)

Tony's shotgun looks VERY much like the MOSSBERG HS12 after another look at episode 9. When Rick searches Tony's pocket and picks up two (probably 12-ga) shotgun rounds, you can clearly see the Top/Locking Lever for opening/locking the breech contrasted against the background. In the shot just before that you can see a Picatinny or Weaver rail on top of the receiver. This clearly says "HS12" to me...and though it pretty clearly does not have a rail on the bottom of the under barrel, not all HS12s have the under-barrel rail, I think. --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]] 27 Feb 2012
:Had to Google Mossberg HS12, and I must admit I giggled a little bit at the concept of a "tactical" over/under. I watched the episodes in question the other day, and from memory at least I'd have to agree with you. It'd be nice if someone could post a picture, though.... [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 18:05, 27 February 2012 (CST)
::I will try to get an appropriate screencap uploaded; ditto for the Sig P228/229 to help resolve that one. PS "tactical" double-barrels have made ground in the last couple years or so- check out Stoeger's "tactical" SxS...just remember to bring your barf bag- they're charging the same prices for one as you'd see for a good 870 or Mossy pump. Outrageous! In any case, stupid people waste their money on them- but I digress. Tony's apparent choice of shotgun bespeaks his desperation and/or seriously limited tactical reasoning ability- which I guess we already could've figured out around the time his body hit the floor. =P --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]]

: Does the Mossberg HS12 come with sling swivel studs? I noticed that Tony was carrying his shotgun by a sling that was looped over his shoulder. Since the buttstock of this shotgun had been sawn off, there was no way to just let it hang there - he had to keep holding onto the sling with his hand instead. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 09:00, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== What caused it? ==
Does the comic ever reveal what the cause of the outbreak was? I'm not asking for spoilers as to what the cause ''was'', I'm just asking if it's ever revealed, like a "yeah, they find out what it was" or "no, they build a rocket ship and fly to Mars to restart human civilization", or something like that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:59, 27 February 2012 (CST)
:I don't think any reason has actually been given, and Robert Kirkman (writer of the comic) has stated that he doesn't plan to ever give a definitive cause. In the comic characters have speculated that it is caused by a virus that everyone in the world is infected with that causes them to reanimate after death. Because I've read the comic I already knew this so can't remember if it is made clear in the series, but it is the kind of zombie apocalypse where everyone who dies turns into a zombie, even if they die from non zombie causes (zombie bites cause infections that are 100% lethal). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 27 February 2012 (CST)

For Example a certain Main Character is shot dead at the end of the first book (in the comic they never went to the CDC, instead they just got the guns and left, but before they left the character is killed) and later in the series (maybe a book or two later, Rick returns to the place where they buried said person, and he was a zombie even though he had died by a bullet and not bite/scratch --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 09:34, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== Unidentified pistol ==

In the most recent episode, S02E11, Carl takes a pistol out of Daryl's bike. Presumably it is the same pistol Daryl used in episode S01E4. There were some pretty clear shots of the pistol when Carl is holding it, looked like a Browning, but I could be completely wrong. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 23:51, 5 March 2012 (CST)
:It was a [[Browning BDA]], not sure if this is the same gun as in S01E04 as it looks like that has a larger beavertail on the back of the grip, but is hard to tell from the shots available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:56, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Shotgun stock? ==
What type of stock is on Shane's shotgun?
--[[User:Zombie Killer 1995|Zombie Killer 1995]] 09:24, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:It says on the main article, a KNOXX SpecOps NRS stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:40, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's pistol ==

I think Daryl's unidentified pistol might be a CZ-75 series, the frame/grips seem to match it as does the general size.
:Looked more like a Browning Hi-Power to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:18, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I concur with Cool-breeze. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:41, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Looked more like a Browning BDM to me.

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-02-17T23:59:43Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears */ new section

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

Talk:Resident Evil 6

2012-01-21T04:59:10Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* unknown pistol */

Is this for real? Because the bumf we've got here sounds like a bad fanfic. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:47, 20 January 2012 (CST)

:For reals. http://worthplaying.com/article/2012/1/19/news/84815/ --[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 13:05, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Are we okay with copying and pasting Capcom's press release? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

:Why would we need to do that? The trailer's legit and we're identifying the firearms. That's pretty much where IMFDB's job ends. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:09, 20 January 2012 (CST)
::I meant the paragraph that's already there. ("Blending action and survival horror, Resident Evil 6 is the most ambitious, immersive..." ). [http://thecontrolleronline.com/2012/01/capcom-confirms-resident-evil-6/] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 16:25, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== unknown pistol ==

Could it be a hybrid of a Springfield handgun and a Glock?[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 14:13, 20 January 2012 (CST)

It looks like a Steyr M9 to me. I don't see the Springfield's resemblance here.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Talk:Resident Evil 6

2012-01-21T04:58:49Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* unknown pistol */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-01-11T01:43:49Z

FIVETWOSEVEN:

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

Talk:Main Page

2012-01-11T01:37:35Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* I think it's time to end the silencer/suppressor debate */

==Movie gear database==

Hey guys with all the questions about gear in movies (gloves,vests etc.) someone could create a page similar to this only with gear besides it would be much smaller than this database , what you guys think.

==Thinking==
For the last few days I have been browsing the internet and researching high-powered guns (.44 Mag mostly) and find myself wishing that some weapons were made sooner. Does anyone think that the Taurus Raging Bull in .44 Magnum would have been a badass weapon for Eastwood to carry (if it was around back then). What weapons do you think would have been good? NO SMITH & WESSON 500s! CZAR 4/14/11

==2011 Topic: Type 69: RPG or no RPG? ==

Recently, there has been some controversy about whether a Type 69 launcher should be indicated as an RPG or not. I've started a topic in the forums about this and also here to see if we can get to a consensus about this. Moderators, please weigh in. For futher information about this, you can take a look at the [[User Talk: BurtReynoldsMoustache]] page and [[User Talk:Evil Tim]] page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 17:17, 14 April 2011 (CDT)

:Leave it as Type 69 RPG.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:44, 14 April 2011 (CDT)

==Blue Bloods==
Can someone make a page for this new show starring Tom Selleck?--[[User:SAMBAMA|SAMBAMA]] 18:39, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

==Steven Seagal==
Why is their no weapon page for Seagal's The Patriot?
: Well Mr., why don't you make it yourself? And while your at it, sign your posts. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 06:54, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

== Killzone ==
how are none of the killzone games on this website? i know they contain fictional weapons but its still intresting and other games with mock up weapons such as resident evil 0 are on here?

== Malcom X and 9 Deaths of the Ninja ==

There's a scene where Archie says, "Frisk me", and Malcom is unable to find the gun because it's hidden in the small of archie's back. Anyone know what type of gun that is? Oh and there's a low budget movie called "9 Deaths of the Ninja" which features a gatling type rifle called "the Dancer". Anyone know anything about that? Hit me up on my Talk Page. [[User:Des|Des]] 08:49, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

==NCIS/Sons of Anarchy crossover arsenal==
Hey I'm writing a crossover between those two shows and would like a second opinion about the arsenal the 3 Nomads use. it's listed below.

Nomad’s weapons: In Trojan Horse and the sequels that will follow The Nomads employ a variety of guns and weapons to get the job done, however they usually carry them on their persons, their saddlebags, or in their Chevy van.
Their weapons include:
On person:
Sam: Glock 22, KaBar, Glock 26 on right ankle holster, S&W tactical boot knife on left ankle

Vince: Glock 21, KaBar, 2 Glock 26s on a duel ankle holster on right ankle, S&W tactical boot knife on left ankle

Hank: Dual Glock 21s in shoulder rig, Big Daddy Jungle Knife, 1 Glock 30 on right ankle holster, Tiger shark combat knife on left ankle

In Saddle bags: 10 in each

Sam: 1 Sawed off Remington 1100, 1 Walther P22 loaded with ratshot, 1 Tec 9, 2 Kimber Custom 45s, 3 Glock 17s, 1 Glock 34, 1 Berretta PX4 storm 45

Vince: 1 Sawed off Ithaca M37, 1 Walther P22 loaded with ratshot, 8 Glock 19s

Hank: 1 Sawed off Remington M870, 9 Glock 21s

106 in Van in a custom extra tire compartment in the back floor, gun rack, glove

compartments, and boxes:

60 Handguns:

30 Glock 17s

10 Glock 21s

10 Glock 22s

10 Glock 27s

15 Shotguns:

5 Sawed off Remington M870s

5 Sawed off Ithaca M37s

5 Benelli M4 tacticals

12 Assault Rifles:

12 AK 47s

11 Knives:

5 5” Tantos

1 Spartan fixed blade

3 13” Bowie Knives

2 Neck Knives

8 Melee:

3 Louisville Sluggers

1 9 iron golf club

2 sawed off pool cues

1 black jack

1 Brass knuckles

What do you guys think? Are these weapons appropriate for outlaw bikers?
Also heres the link to the story:http: //www.fanfiction.net/s/5643700/1/Trojan_Horse. tell me what you think.

==Bolt-Action Shotguns==
I have watched some youtube videos with people using a variety of bolt-action shotguns, one of the videos is called 16 ga one handed redneck style where he has modified this bolt-action shotty by sawing off the stock and adding a green finish, if you can identify it I would appreciate it.

==IMFDB = Internet Movie Firearms Data Base, right?==
That's an assumption from the obvious subject of this Wiki. Don't you think the full name should appear on the Main Page? I don't see it anywhere! Fine Wiki you've got going here. [[Special:Contributions/68.199.188.123|68.199.188.123]] 05:20, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
:You are right! We should have the title INTERNET MOVIE FIREARMS DATA BASE somewhere boldly on the main page. I can EDIT the page, but it has a lot of wiki code on it and I don't want to mess anything up. Can someone else with access (and more wiki code experience) do this change? Can Bunni do this change? It seems pretty obvious and I can't believe we didn't catch it until now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:58, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::- I see now we have a big '''Internet Movie Firearms Database''' banner on the main page. Looks good. All the OCD nuts should be happy now! Yay! :b Seriously though, it is good to have it, thanks and nice job. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:33, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

==Oh, and another question==
Just watched very interesting commercial. Directed by [[Sam Raimi]] it's actually spoofing [[Desperado]]. There are guns, including [[Remington 1866 Derringer]], one of my personal favoties, i can recognize it everywhere. There's also [[John Saxon]] here. Can i do a page about this commercial? Also, if more global, can commercials and music videos be here, as they also media, like video games and movies. --[[User:Kloga|Kloga]] 15:39, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
:I don't know about that. That's getting too much out of scope, I think. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:23, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::NO Commercials, NO Music Videos. There are tons of commercials that play only in Europe or Asia and we can't verify any of that info here. For one thing, you can't BUY or rent the DVDs of television commercials and (the vast majority of) Music videos to screencap them, or more importantly, confirm the veracity of said pages. Yes, chances are you can find a (usually low rez version) on the Internet, but really, do people wonder about the guns in either of those types of visual media? If we include ALL visual media, then we would be forced to accept news broadcasts, documentaries, industrial or training videos, etc. etc. and veer farther from the central theme of being the MOVIE firearms database. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:08, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::: You wrong actually - there are tons of DVD and festivals, that show commercials. And you can verify them via youtube Though, never mind. But can i do the thing on [[Sam Raimi]] page as a bonus like "Other Works" on IMDB? --[[User:Kloga|Kloga]] 09:36, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

::::No YOU'RE WRONG, Kloga. You insist on adding things that are (a) unnecessary and (b) Stupid. I'm on the verge of banning just because you keep on pushing it and pushing when we say NO to your various ideas. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:12, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

- Commercials? Music videos? Are you joking? Man, there are literally zillions of commercials that have been made in the world, and I'm sure a healthy percentage of them have gun usage. There have also been loads upon loads of music videos, with a much higher percentage of them having firearms in them. All of which would make for a rather ugly number of additional pages. You're talking about increasing this site in size and organization by at least two or three-fold, if not far more. Be realistic. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

==Request: High Heels & Low Lifes==
While kinda chick-flick-ish, it's still a highly entertaining movie.. and has some really nice looking firearms. There is a scene where one of the main characters, Mason, is standing in the doorway of a darkened apartment, turns to face (three quarters) the camera and pulls out a gun. I have no idea what kind of firearm this is but it looks really awesome.. and if anyone can identify it would be much appreciated!

==Jacked pictures==
The following are pictures taken from my website. The first one is edited, but it's still my picture. The first version still has my copyright notice on it, as does the second picture. [[Image:M1891.jpg]] and [[Image:M39.jpg]] Please remove all versions of both these pictures from the database. I'm not very familiar with wikis or I'd do it myself. --[[User:7.62x54r.net|7.62x54r.net]] 23:36, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

==English Scripts==
To unregistered users. use English script when writing on these pages. Most of us are American and don't run asian word scripts on our computers. Thus Asian letters are unreadable to us and look like gibberish. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 20:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Screencap Legality ==
How do you know whether uploading screencaps violates copyright or not?
: Pretty sure it is okay because no one has hunted us down to sue us, but anyway, as long as you don't claim it is your work and credit only yourself, you should be okay. -GM
:: One thing I would advise you to do is not upload screenshots from pirated copies of movies that haven't been released yet on DVD and Blu Ray. I imagine that if someone working for one of the studios saw that, they would be very upset. They'll know the shots came from a bootleg if the movie isn't out on DVD yet, and they might just throw the book at us. Avoid this at all costs. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:30, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

== Merging articles ==

Is it possible to merge an article with a pre-existing article? Every time I try to do this with particular types of guns, I get an error message that says, "A page of that name already exists, or the name you have chosen is not valid. Please choose another name." For instance, if I wanted to move the HK91 article under the H&K G3 article (since the HK91 is a G3 variant, I don't think it needs its own page), I can't do this.
::To merge an article, take the article, copy all the information and put it on the new page in the format you wish to make. You can also do this if you wish to change the name of a page. Take the page that you copied everything from and delete everything on that page. Write on that page this exactly(minus quotes):
"#REDIRECT (then use double [ ] brackets) and write the name of the page EXACTLY AS IT IS. Screw up the name and it'll redirect no where.
:Example
# "#Redirect [[[[M16 rifle series]]]]"
Note:How I made it look finished is what it should look like. Not what it looks like when in the editing of the page. Hope I helped. -[[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

This is probably rhetorical, but is this the same method of redirecting to a page, i.e. [[QBZ-95]] redirecting to [[Norinco QB rifle series]]? I noticed that a page for the QBZ-95 was deleted because there already was one (Norinco QB rifle series), but whenever you type in QBZ-95, there are absolutely no results for it, and that could be confusing for your everyday user..[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 22:44, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

== Let there be backups! ==
Ok, I've installed ruby on our dedicated server, signed up for Amazon's s3 storage service, and customized a ruby backup script to automatically backup the database and all image files at 4am pst and upload them to our s3 folder. The process really bogs down the box for a good 10 minutes, so I'm thinking once every 24 hours is fine, but I may go to once every 12 hours eventually... Thanks for putting up with the ups and downs during this time of transition.

Best,
Chris
[[User:Bunni|bunni]] 05:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to our new server! This is the first of many steps I am taking to ensure we never lose data again. The site used to be hosted on shared hosting overseas - we now have a dedicated server housed in a co-location in San Jose, CA. Dedicated servers don't come cheap, but your time, effort, and contributions are now my number one priority.

I'm still transferring the images that have been uploaded over the last couple days, don't worry they're not lost!

==The McUzi==
It wasn’t until I read the ‘Raw Deal’ article on the “fake Uzi” that I realized Hollywood was dressing MAC-10s up as Uzis.

In ‘The Dog of War’ the mercenaries are supposed to be using Uzis. However some are using MAC-10s and some are using MACs dressed up as Uzis. The actors seem to change weapons randomly. For example, as the climactic battle begins Tom Berenger is using a real Uzi and Christopher Walken is using a silenced Uzi. However in the final minutes both are using McUzis. This is made painfully clear as Walken holds the gun to his face when reloading.

There are real MAC Uzi hybrids. These are civilian versions of the Uzi with a .45 barrel, bolt and a MAC-10 magazine well to accept the universal Grease Gun magazines.

The Hollywood guns are merely MACs with Uzi parts added on.

I would see to real reason to make a gun like this accept that the filmmakers wanted to use Uzis but ran out. Much like ‘Planet of the Apes’ when the studio ran out of ape costumes they simply used paper mask. If you look closely at the audience of Heston’s mock trial.

I captured some great stills to add to ‘The Dogs of War’ article.````

== moved from main page ==
We're on the new server and still working the bugs out - email me at cserrano@gmail.com if you're having any issues editing or logging in. The backup file is from early September 30, so most of yesterdays edits are missing - sorry GunMaster45 I'm working on it! [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 17:03, 1 October 2008 (UTC) ''GunMaster45 I've recovered the latest version of the [[Street Kings]] page - anything else we're missing?'' [[User:WikiSysop|WikiSysop]] 21:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
: I had the R9 pistol which I had uploaed today but I redid it. Will the pictures remain fuzzy and pixelated or is that just temporary? (Hopefully) -GM

If you find something missing from the old server you can still access it here 66.79.167.132/~imfdb/index.php?title=Main_Page [[User:WikiSysop|WikiSysop]] 20:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
:I had just uploaded some pics of the AR18 from Terminator and the Street Sweeper from Total Recall. Can you get them back, or should I upload them again? Also, MPM2008 uploaded some new gun pics, and I don't think he'll appreciate their loss.

== How do i "screencap" a movie? ==
How do i screencap a movie?: [[User:Sick-vice|Sick-vice]] 12:41, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:Ah, OK then. We all have our own methods of doing so. Personally, I play my DVDs using VLC Media Player, which has a Snapshot feature which lets you take screenshots when paused, and then it saves them automatically as JPEGs or PNGs to a designated folder of your choosing. However, that's ONLY when I'm screencapping movies I own on DVD. I also rent and download movies using iTunes which I might screencap for IMFDB pages, and I can't play those with VLC. In those cases, I just hit the "Print Screen" key, paste the image into MSPaint, and then crop away the iTunes browser so that only the movie image remains. Then I save them to my HD in a designated folder. Once I've acquired enough screenshots for a movie, I use "Upload file" to put them on IMFDB so that I can use them for pages I edit. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::First and most importantly, you need a DVD drive in your computer to watch the movie. I watch mine on Windows WinDVD system, which has a built in "screencap" button by pressing P, which saves them all in WinDVD file. I take those files from the folder, which are all saved under BMPs and re-save them as JPGs using Corel Paintshop. If they are widescreen, I use crop to cut them out. I then upload them to the site and post them. Now that I've read MT2008's method for iTunes, I can screencap [[Shoot 'Em Up]] which wasn't compatable with my WinDVD system, but worked on my other DVD player which had no screencap button. Hooray! -[[User:Gunmaster45|GM45]]

And also you can use the program I use which is CyberLink PowerDVD which also has a built in Screenshot button. First the screenshots start out as BMPs, but then I use Irfan View to save them as JPGs to a different folder. And if they are widescreen, I use Windows Photo Gallery to crop off the black bars. You should also check out Gunmaster's and MT2008's methods because they might be better.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 18:02, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

What about taking pictures on a digital camera and uploading them to your PC? Does anyone know if it works?[[User:TheDon152|TheDon152]] 21:41, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

::Thats a very myspace101 question but it's simple there's about 4 ways to do it but I've only done 2. (This demonstration is only done on Windows XP)

:::Option 1: If your camera has a memory slot like a (Compact Flash, Secure Digital, Mini SD, Micro SD, Memory Stick Pro, MultiMediaCard (MMC), SmartMedia, xD-Picture Card (xD), etc.) you could remove the card from the camera. Step 1: Once you removed the card from the camera if you have a compatible USB card reader you can plug the card reader into the computer and plug the card into the card reader. The most common great quality card reader brands are (Sandisk, Memorex, PNY, and Lexar) for approximately $20.00 at Wal-Mart.

:::Option 2: If your camera has a connection for a USB cable. Step 1: You can easily find and plug the USB adaptor into the camera and plug the other end of the plug into you computer.

:::The upload process is easy (tested on Windows XP) your computer bottom right task tray will show a "Found New Hardware" icon and be gone that means your camera is connected. Step 2: A pop up will show on how you want to view your images click on "view with Windows" if this pop up does not pop up you will have to manually follow step 3 if not skip on to step 4. Step 3: You may click "My Computer" or "My Documents" most likely on the desktop or start menu on your computer you will go to "My Computer" and find a folder that says a brand of your memory card or camera. Step: 4 Click on the folder and look through all folders and once you find it you may highlight the folder or the selected images on your computer mouse right click and press copy (or press Ctrl+C on your keyboard) and paste the images where ever you want in your computer.

== How do i screencap from a television? ==
Like if i wanted to screencap some video games? 
[[User:Sick-vice|Sick-vice]] 22:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

If you have an XBOX 360 go out and buy a Dazzle adaptor, Video Amplification Distributor, and a few assorted cables such as an HD Cable for it. This will allow you to record videos from your game,and use a simple program like Paint or Snipping Tool to get your screenshots out of it.
-CZAR-

:You probably need some high tech gizmo. Usually people who screencap TV use DVR and record TV on DVD, then upload them on the computer. I've never done it but it may work for VGs. -GM45

::Personally, I'd recommend maybe trying an emulator to play said game on your computer (assuming your PC is fast enough to handle the software and game). I've been thinking of redoing the ''[[Goldeneye 007]]'' page for a while using Project64 (which has a screencap feature), because I can play that game at high resolution even on my laptop.
:::I recommend softwares like Fraps (only for PC games). It can take images with a click of a button and you can choose what to save it as in the Pictures section. The disadvantage is that you can't record gameplay in computer games and you must pay about $99 (not sure, but around there and you can also pay little by little per month or week to use) it to do unlimited video capturing. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:39, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

==Call of Duty 4 pictures==
I've got good pictures of guns for Call of Duty 4, but i don't know how to upload them, anyone knows how to email me at r1c0ch37@gmail.com

:All you have to do is go to "Upload file" under the "Toolbox" section in the left-hand column. -MT2008

:Seriously, do people actually ''expect'' one of us to email them answers to their questions? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:59, 6 December 2011 (CST)

==Protection Log?==
Is something wrong with the site. Why are all the pics being fixed with "([edit=sysop:move=sysop])" for a protection log? I know little about that technical stuff, is someone removing the pics or are they just being protected from over-uploading crappy pics over? -GM

:They're being protected. Some asshole came in earlier today and kept trying to replace MoviePropMaster's pics with stock 'Net images, and kept doing it even after he was asked to stop. MPM's pics are our pride 'n joy...Alienqueen and I agreed not to let them get screwed with anymore. -MT2008

Yeah, that's reason why I did it. I just wish I had my ability to block users back, and then I wouldn't have had to set up protections. I told that guy not to upload over MPM2008's images and multiple times and he didn't listen.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

==Flannigan==
on the Snatch page- I know it already says that the .50 is a 357, but also another way of finding out is that .50s fire 7 rounds where as in the film Bullet tooth tony fires 8 in every mag. so it must be a 357.

Retrieved from "http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Talk:Snatch"

==Deleting old files==
As y'all can probably tell, I have been on a huge deleting spree recently. I've been getting rid of files that weren't being used for whatever reason or another. Some of them were gun images that have since been replaced by MoviePropMaster's images, others were old screencaps that have been replaced by newer ones (like all of my old ''[[Hard Boiled]]'' shots, which have since been replaced by GunMaster's), and some were those images of weird experimental guns uploaded by Cutaway that don't appear in any movie and thus have no purpose on this site.

I realize, of course, that this by itself won't relieve the strain on the servers; it's inevitable as this site grows. But it seems like a worthwhile thing to do. If anyone of the Admins are interested in helping out, please go to "Special Pages" and click on "Unused Files" (at the top). If you see something that might be worth keeping (i.e. Choi's screencaps from ''[[The Killer]]'' which haven't been put on the page yet), leave it alone, but if you see gun images that obviously have no use or screencaps that you know have been replaced...ditch 'em.

Thanks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

Good Work, MT2008. I'm sure it'll give us more server space, I'll be sure to delete some myself. One question, if we get rid of the old files, will this site load faster?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

:Beats me, but I'd have to guess...not ''noticeably'' faster. It will at least give us more space for uploading newer files. However, IMFDB is constantly growing, so it's inevitable we'll reach our limits eventually. You'd have to ask Bunni when that will be. Anyway, I'm off to the pub now. I will be back later to continue. [[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:20, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Go right ahead, you deserve a break. I'll get rid of as many as I can, I'm also seeing alot of screenshots nobody bothered to use, it makes me wonder why people upload them if they're just going to sit there for a year and gather dust. And, I'm also going to screencap [[Four Brothers]] and [[Assault on Precinct 13 (2005)]] soon, so you can look forward to seeing them completed.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

==Fictional Firearms==
I propose that we denote pages for 'fictional' firearms with parentheses "like Non Guns" so that they are in a different grouping than real guns. GM has made pages for the fantasy weapons of Hellboy II and that made me think about custom pages for the Morita Rifle (Starship troopers) or the M590 (Space:Above and Beyond) or the Blade Runner Pistol or any of the Star Wars guns (versus other types of Sci fi weapons, these should be guns). Even though THESE fictional guns are based on real guns, they can have their own pages with links to the original weapons page. Regardless, I think that guns that aren't real should be separated, lest they confuse users. Thoughts anyone? Thanks in advance.
[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

:I agree. I was kinda turned off when I saw the Aliens Resurrection page. None of those guns were based off of real firearms or even guns dressed up to look like futuristic guns.

::Well I get the point of making a post about fictional guns that were built around real guns like the Morita rifle and the Pulse Rifle of Aliens, but guns that were built from scratch like the Samaritian. Would it really need a page here or is that just for the fanboys who like the gun? It's like a page for the cars used in the Punisher movie or people who like to include knives, swords, and even bows & arrow in pages, including me. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

:::The advantage is that the page can inform an interested user that the prop was NOT based on any real firearm, information that is just as important as informing 'what real firearm' was used in a prop weapon. What I don't like are obvious NON crafted weapons .... like [[Molotov cocktails]] ... wtf? That's an improvised weapon, like a sharp stick or a brick.[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

::What about bows & arrows, or crossbows? I put them in my pages cause when they are used, they an impression and deserve a mention evne though they aren't firearms. Also what about knives and swords? I've seen some of those as well, but I think the knife of Rambo should stay because...well, it's the knife of Rambo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

== My gripe on Empty pages ==

I've been seeing a lot of new pages lately. The problem is that they are a blank! Nothing, not even a list of guns. What the fuck? I mean, a list of guns with no photos is ok, but just a fucking blank page? Do the people that do that expect someone else to do the work for them? They mind as well type down, "someone list the guns and put up pics for me cause I am lazy as fuck to even give a list." At least writing that down says something. Not just a blank.
:We all understand your pain Exy, we need a more efficient way to let the anonymous users know that if you make a page, you got to do the work. You gotta watch the language though, people will see it and think it is okay to do often. We all do it, but we don't want it done for no reason. Just ignore the empty pages, let them do the work eventually. If they don't, delete the pages. Half of them are movies I've never heard of anyway. Keep an eye out for [[Tropic Thunder]] and [[The Shawshank Redemption]], I'll have them done this week. -GM
::What about that new member who create thirty or so new movie pages (some of which barely had one gun in them) and then never filled out any of those pages? I'm tempted to give people a little time, but for movies in which I question their relevance to this site, I'm also tempted to get rid of blank pages and let people create them when they're ready to populate them with information. MPM
:::Sorry for the foul launguage. I'm used to talking on forums where the F word is acceptable when you are pissed. Swears is culturally part of any language and sometimes it slips and I like to think we're all adults here that do use swears in real life when it is required. Anyway. Nice job on the [[Tropic Thunder]] and [[The Shawshank Redemption]] pages. I've only done one movie that had ONE gun in it and it was [[The Forbidden Kingdom]] and even I did the work for it. I guess the anonymous users might also just be curious guys online and just hope we know what movie they are talking about, have it, and would take the time to tell them what guns are in it by doing the pages, but maybe on the main page, someone should put down rules of how to operate this site. I mean, I wanted to put a new qoute into the qoute section, but can't cause I don't know how to do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

=="jacked" summaries"==
One thing that irks me is people 'cut and pasting' a plot summary completely from IMDB. This is not only against IMFDB rules, but if any mods from IMDB sees them, they can make an stink about it. I'm tempted to 'erase' any pirated summaries and put a note to the original writer ''"'''Write your own summary in your own words'''. It isn't too hard, even to re-arrange the sentences and replace some words to make it LOOK like you wrote it yourself. Just don't lift them word for word from another well known source. IMDB itself has a rule that you must write your own summaries and not lift them from other 3rd party sources. So does IMFDB.org. "'' Of course there are so many jacked firearm images here, this may be hypocritical. Which is why I'm working so hard to get IMFDB their own exclusive gun images. But it's one thing to upload an image of an impossible to get gun which no one has, versus taking the time to type a few sentences...
:I agree. I did the same thing with my [[Black Lagoon]] page when I got here, but I took it off mainly because I didn't see the need for a summary at the beginning of the page that is THAT long winded. People are here for the guns and if they want to know what the movie or show is about, they just look it up. I don't know, I stopped writing summaries for movies and shows long ago. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
::I think we don´t need summaries.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:34, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
:::I disagree with those who think "we don't need no stinkin' summaries..." For those people who have NOT seen the movie a SHORT summaries are okay. I've put them on some of my pages, usually when I have something interesting to add. I do like them when someone puts a page for a movie so obscure that I have no idea what it's about (and I don't want to have to go hunting around the web to find out, capice?) I added summaries (and others did) for those REALLY OBSCURE East german B&W movies that are on the site. Who created those pages anyway? Like anyone's going to see Black and white German language communist era DDR movies .... oh well. I can always start creating pages for the cinema of 1930s Lithuania! hahahaha. But having no summary for SOME of the pages sucks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
::I found some summaries to stick out too much. Maybe a sentence or two to just give the jist, or a catch phrase like, but really I don't do summaries anymore. But I'll think about it for the anime ones simply cause some of them are harder to find or most people wouldn't have interests in them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

==Leaving your sign==
If you want people to know who you are when you write things on pages and discussion boards, put four ~ symbols after your message. Your user name and time/date are automatically shown. [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]] 20:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

:See?

:: What he said. ;)
::: I agree wholeheartedly ...
::::Yes. Just yes. --Maxaxle, [[Special:Contributions/99.50.201.235|99.50.201.235]] 23:47, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

== Should we have templates? ==

Like in Wikipedia?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:09, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It WOULD make this site a bit more...colorful than the standard white background, but if it's too much work, then it's up to whoever really runs this place.

:In all honesty, what this site needs most of all is cross-referencing of some kind, so that if somebody enters the name of a gun in one page, it shows up on another. It's a downfall of Wikis in general, and this one in particular. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

==Views==

Is there a way how I could check how many people viewed may page like on the home page the top 5 articles says how many people have viewed are page.
-[[User:Btracy1994|Btracy1994]] 01:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

== How do i replace a image? ==

How do i replace a image?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:38, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

== Updating ==

Can someone please update or add pictures to these listed pages:

*3000 miles to Graceland

*Blue streak

*The Mask

*Snatch

:The Mask and Snatch are on my to-do list. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== music videos ==

should be included on the site...i want to know the guns used in protest the hero's video for blindfolds aside...if anyone knows, please share, or at least where i can find out

== main page movies ==

What exactly is the criteria for a film to be featured on the main page? I was thinking of submitting some (unless there are already enough as it is). - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]
:Popular, critically aclaimed (but gun heavy I guess, something that wins 9 oscars but has three guns isn't a good idea), and it should have a decent amount of guns on it (like 15-20 seems about right).

dom't know who replied but that isn't really a good idea. Most movies don't even have 15-20 guns in them, and there are several low-budget films, and inconspicious ones too. Gran Torino one some oscars if I remember, but it has like 7-8 guns in it if I remember. - [[User:1morey]] July 12, 2011 3:16 PM (EST)

== Too many screencaps!!! ==

I'm getting a bit frustrated w/the amount of screencaps we're loading up. Is there any way we can limit the number? The pages are becoming much too long & scrolling takes forever. I know Wikis are not democracies so a vote would be out of the question but can we all please stop indulging our screecap skills by putting ALL our favorite stills from these films up & just have about 2-3 images per firearm? [[User:Tommyt|Tommyt]] 20:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

:At least for the front page I have to agree - the loading is taking way too long. I'm going to disable the featured page for a while and see how it goes. I can't afford to upgrade the server at the moment to handle the huge load. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 03:26, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::Can this be done on individual pages too? Take a look at the page for Shoot 'em Up for instance, seems like everyone just had to throw their favorite frame in there. Also, the Quick & the Dead is pretty bad too... Also, would it be bad in etiquette to go into pages & start cutting out images that are repetitive or unnecessary? [[User:Tommyt|Tommyt]] 18:47, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Excuse the language but FUCK YOU. And if you start removing my screencaps I'll be sure to remove ''you'' from the site. (sorry about the outburst but it is very rude to blatantly bash my hard work and contributions to this site, and it pisses me off gravely) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::No one was bashing the hard work or contributions. Don't confuse legitimate criticism with a personal attack, and your response back was a personal attack and beneath you, especially the fine responses you usually write (and the fact that you're a MOD now). I hope you eventually understand that I also mean no disrespect as well. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:01, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

GM's comment aside I'm all for detailed screencaps. Heck I'm going to be trying to collect a bunch for myself. Unfortunantly the interesting films I have are VHS. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 23:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:He's got a point though. I dont want to be rude, but when every single time the certain gun is shown, it doesnt really need a picture. 5 tops is ok. GM, you are very nortorious for 13-14 pictures of the same gun. i can understand showing cycling misfeeds/changes in guns, but on the Punisher page, you dont really need that many pictures of Castle shooting Spoon and Dante. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::You shouldn't have to apologize. The members who seem to LOVE tons of screencaps take it personally, like you're attacking THEM, not the decision to display endless screenshots of guns. I think when they think about it, they may realize that no one is trying to be insulting. When I screencap, I edit the pictures. Sure I might have 14 shots, but I choose the best couple and cull the rest. I don't feel compelled to force everyone to look at every since solitary screenshot, just because I took the time to do them. Just like a writer or artist, you must have the maturity to cut out what is excess, even though at the time it sucks to cut out stuff you like. Looks like some of the new (i.e. young also) members are trying to outdo the record for ridiculous screencaps. [[We Were Soldiers]] is now a page that I no longer like to look at, now that I have to scroll down for ten minutes to see the next section. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:01, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

== how do i screencap ==

i have many films, games exc that i want to screencap. please can someone tell me how to?
:You need a DVD-rom drive on your computer. Play the movie on a DVD player with a screencapture function. The images will be saved to a folder. Cut off any widescreen or full screen bars and convert the image to a JPG so it can be placed here. You'll need a photo editor such as Corel Photoshop or even Paintshop. Then go to the Upload file section and upload them on the site. Copy the picture's linkage (will say something like "Image:name.jpg") then put the image in double brackets [[]] and paste the linkage. now you'd take this image and write it like this:

(double bracket)Image:name.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Comment.(double bracket)

Look at some other pages to see this in use. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

You can actually screencap with any Windows computer, very easily. Just use the Print Screen button and paste it into whatever program you want; you can then crop out the interface and whatnot. You can also use Print Screen + Alt so that you only get what's inside the window instead of everything (I think PrtScn + Alt is what you want.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

==Should this picture be on the M16 Page?==
hahahaha. The CHAMPION of customization in the history of firearms! .....
[[Image:74ea0f45a31c.gif]]

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:19, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
:Oh hell yea! that looks awesome! [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::Looks like that GIF took a lot of work to make... Awesome though. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:::That would be perfect for the M16 page, so definitely yes!--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 20:47, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Well where on the page should this be on? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:55, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

:Interesting enough I don't see this thing transform into an M16A1 or A2
::M16A1 is dead and gone. the a2 series is the new and improved. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

Slow it down a touch and it's perfect! And to satisfy those who are sticklers about accuracy: split the animation into "A1" and "A2" animations (one for each M16 variant).
EDIT: Isn't there a silencer for it? Counter-Strike says so...
--Maxaxle, [[Special:Contributions/99.50.201.235|99.50.201.235]] 23:48, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

How awesome is that AR-15 builder, just love doing it for the hell of it.

Wait why isnt this on the M16 page?!?! This thing is AWESOME! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:19, 4 December 2011 (CST)

== Grammar/Spelling ==
-
- Hello gentlemen. First off I just want to start of by telling you guys how much I enjoy this site. Anyhow, I come visiting from IMCDb (Internet Movie Car Database). I'm an administrator over there and given my interest in weapons and the similarity between the two sites, I've taken an interest in visiting your site. However, I've noticed a problem that I wanted to bring up to your guys' attention. Often times there are grammar and spelling mistakes and I think that it is something that you guys can improve upon a bit more. I don't mean to sound like I'm criticizing or I'm calling anybody stupid or anything, but it's things like that that could make the site look cleaner and more appealing. And yes, I do understand that english may not be the first language for some of the posters here. My point is that I'm just giving some friendly advice from who I'd like to think of as someone from a "sister" site. Thanks gents...keep up the great work.

:: We have tons of contributors who aren't even old enough to shave yet. Does that tell you anything? GM45 once described it as a small group of Mods/ Super users fighting against the cresting tide of the ocean, or something to that effect. :) An apt metaphor. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:03, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Hi, I am a fan of IMCDB myself (it was where I learned all about how M1 Abrams tanks in Hollywood are mocked-up Centurions). I do appreciate your concerns about grammar/spelling and agree with you that it needs to be addressed. However, being that (unlike IMCDB) we are a Wiki open for all to edit, it's somewhat inevitable that this will be an issue. I appreciate the fact that this is less of an issue with IMCDB due to the format of the site, and at times, I wish we could integrate elements of IMCDB into this site to standardize things a bit (I still get annoyed when I see people who call a Beretta 92F a "Berretta M92F" even though it says at the top of the page that this is not the correct spelling). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::::Fellas, I greatly appreciate the response. I understand the situation with your site and we ourselves deal with some of the same issues, as far as having younger members whose grammar and knowledge isn't exactly ideal. But thanks a lot for the response. And as I said earlier, keep up the good work.

:::::Thanks. We also have foreign contributors who don't have that great of a grasp of English. We also have guys who just don't know how to spell. One of my buddies who is a combat vet, former 82nd Airborne, types like a two year old on his computer. I jokingly say that I have to create a special filter for Babelfish to decypher what he is typing! LOL. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

===Our own movie===
I was thinkin'. We've got a lot of people on this site, a lot of them are very talented, we could probably make our own movie someday. I know a good script writer with an idea already mostly-formed, maybe imfdb should have a meet up and make a movie. We could probably all pool our resources and make an awesome one. Just a whimsical fantasy...-protoAuthor
:A movie based on a website? What the fuck? That won't work. I am sorry but, that just won't work.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:07, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::No, I mean we all pitch together and make an action movie. Not based on the website, but the website has the people and resources. As in, a community effort. -protoAuthor
:::That would be cool if only the movie we make is a cheesy action movie in the same vein as Commando, then we can do it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:45, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::::hahahahaha, uh no. :) Some of us actually work in the movie industry and it's not easy to make a movie, even a crappy backyard effort one with a video camera bought from Walmart. You're right, it's a whimsical fantasy, but you need a TON of talented people who know what they are doing in ALL of the positions of a film production. Not just armorers but you need everyone, a good script, good actors, a good director, a good producer (which amazingly is really hard since the producer is supposed to be a manager, NOT someone who micro manages the work by everyone else), a good crew, skilled camera operators, good cameras, pro lighting gear and a good DP or cinematographer. Oh did I mention TONS of $$ (you could spend a fortune just feeding the crew and paying for insurance and permits - salaries not withstanding). Wait, you also need office staff, pre production staff and post production staff and facilities (digital capture, color correcting, editing, sound engineering and editing) and then where are you going to sell it? You need marketing, posters, ads, trailers, a website, the list goes on and on. No I'm not making fun of your comment. It was funny and just that, fantasizing, but I know you are just throwing this bit out there and are not serious. Because it's akin to someone saying "hey let's stage our own high orbit launch of a satellite, all we need is ....." :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::I'm currently working on an amatuer backyard crap job now, and it is actually turning out quite well. We don't have tons of money but we can fund things like fake blood, spare t-shirts (to cover in fake blood), and blanks. As for lighting, so far everything has been working well for us. We actually have enough filmed now that I'm confident this will be a good movie. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Help with VLC ==
I need help with my VLC Media Program. When i screencap movies the program screencaps like normal, but when i upload my images to IMFDB the images stay like this:

[[Image:Vlcsnap-252103Mk2.jpg|thumb|none|512px|Charlie Sheen in [[Platoon]]. <s>The Problem here is that even when the screencap is in 1200x configuration, the screencap is still away too small.</s> Fixed!]]
:Can Anyone help me with this?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:I don't have that problem, but I'm checking out the settings to see what might cause it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

::I imagine you've got this sorted by now, but it's because you missed the letter "p." It's "px" as in "pixel," not "x" as in "times." And that still won't make it larger than the image itself is. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:10, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==Discussions on Articles==

I love this site, I have wasted many hours just browsing the wonderful collection of articles. My only qualm is some users feel that the article pages are also discussion pages to argue the validity of someone's addition. There is nothing that irks me more that when i am reading about a movie and then it becomes some kind of forum. I think this should be regulated to make the site more professional.

:We try to regulate it and throw those discussions on the discussion pages of articles but there are still some users that discuss on the articles.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, that has been a thorn in my side too. Nothing worse than to go to the trouble of creating a thorough, tidy-looking article only for people to clutter it up with chatter and arguements that should be saved for the article's talk page. that 'discussion' tab is up there for a reason, people! [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I couldn't agree more, it turns me off when I'm going through a neat looking page, and then come across a bunch of comments and arguments. If we could just get into the habit of using the talk page for these arguments, then we'll be more obligated to use them more often.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:38, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

== This video ==

Have any of you lazy sons-of-bitches seen this video:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_3FFThpkyg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_3FFThpkyg]

It's fucking awesome let me tell you. And no, i'm not spamming links just watch the video. It's about us!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

:That's been out for a while now; take a look at some of those old gun pics on there, like the long since replaced M16A1/M203 with the 20-round mag. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:03, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::I know but i never seen it. It's really funny.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:06, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Unfortunately some our members are a bit too thin skinned. This guy wasn't being insulting. He was intentionally obnoxious trying to be a 'showman'. Some guys "telling him to fuck off" in the comments makes us look a bit immature. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

== How? ==
how do i create my own page to say what my favourite weapons and movies are and what contributions i have made? please can someone tell me.
:You have to register first and, contribute to this site. Bye!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
i'd hate to sound like an idiot but i've just done that (register and contribute) now what do i do?
:On the upper right corner of your screen there is an panel with thing about your username. Press the one with your name on it and write on it. Also, when editing, there will be an link with "Editing Help". Click it and read it. Now you know how to edit. Yay! Also, put four ~ after any of your messages. That way, you will sign you messages and people will know who you are.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

== Movie Article Request "Sky Captain And The World Of Tomorrow" ==

There are many guns, but I request this mostly for a big mistake in it. When Sky Captain is running on a log with a Colt 1911 (silver) in hand and drops it, the computer rendering shows a revolver of some sort. It is probably the same as the one in the scene where Sky Captain is at his desk and the reporter comes in, and he stops her at gunpoint.

Sorry if I was vague, but my memory's a little fuzzy.
--Maxaxle, [[Special:Contributions/99.50.201.235|99.50.201.235]] 23:46, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
:I actually own that film and I ''could'' screencap it ,but I effing hate that movie. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 21:34, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

:Is it really that bad? It looked like it sucked, but I wasn't sure-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:49, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

::It's just really corny. It tries to capture the feel of movies made in the 20's or whenever the hell the movie's suppose to take place, but it is just super, super, super, corny. If it was intentionally corny, it would be funny. But it's not and that's what makes it bad. The only redeeming part is that Angelina Jolie is in it. Unfortunately, she's always in a uniform and has a patch over one eye, so it's not really worth it in the end. The dues ex Machina near the end doesn't help, or the fact that the female lead is the type of person that would push a button for no other reason then it says "DO NOT PUSH". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:11, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== How do I ==

get pictures on a page? not screencaps but an actor holding a gun in a movie?

You know I've been trying to figure that one out myself for my users page and can't seem to upload pictures of my favourite guns or actors/actresses. Help will be greatly appreciated--[[User:Mikey|Mikey]] 16:41, 11 March 2011 (MSK)

== Fixed Width 1000px ==

I'm working on making the front page a fixed width design... let me play with the ads and featured articles for a couple days. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 22:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

:Created a new template for featured articles, you can play with it at [[Template:FeaturedArticle]]. I've currently only added 3:10 to Yuma and Live Free or Die Hard - feel free to add more. [[User:Bunni|bunni]]

==Random screencap==
Is there any chance of bringing this feature back? I liked looking at the different screenshots. [[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 11 Oct 2009
::Do you prefer having the site crash more often than not, for this little inconvenience?

== I need help with a Link problem ==

I started a State of Grace page, which shows up when entered in the search box, but when I went to add the info from the movie to the actors pages the link back to State of Grace is said to be deleted. Like when I went to the Sean Penn page and entered what pistol he used and entered State of Grace, when I click on State of Grace it brings to a page that says:

'''Warning: You are recreating a page that was previously deleted.'''

You should consider whether it is appropriate to continue editing this page. The deletion log for this page is provided here for convenience:
• 18:32, 15 April 2009 Gunmaster45 (Talk | contribs) deleted ''"State of Grace" ‎ (content before blanking was: 'This excellent movie starred Sean Penn, Ed Harris, and Gary Oldman. Penn, an undercover cop infiltrating the Irish mob in NYC carried a Smith 6906 in .9mm with a Ruger SP101 backup gun. Gary Oldman, a thug, carried ...')''

Does this mean I need to copy and paste all the work I did into that deleted page? Searching for the movie from the search box will bring you to the page I created from scratch, but the link from the actors pages brings you to that notice of an old deleted page. Can anyone help? --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 03:31, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

There was a small difference in titles between the link and the page you created. The link was State of Grace and the title of your page was State Of Grace, so that's why it didn't link. I made a redirect on the previously deleted page so it should work now.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:48, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Movies Page ==

I don't know if anyone has noticed but in the movies page King Kong (1933) is listed under B and there's no entry for it under K. Reason I'm saying this is because I guess only admins can edit category pages? because nothing pops up when I click edit.-[[User:Shooter2|Shooter2]]

::I fixed it. Someone put B&W in the same Category line as "movie". YOu put the categories in separate lines. WHen you put B&W in the same line, it thinks that you want the movie categorized in the "B" category [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:26, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== Do a page on Pavement ==

Can someone please do a page on a movie called Pavement that stars Robert Patrick and Lauren Holly filmed in 2002. I was interested the weapons SWAT used and was pretty sure at one point even though she hadn't fired her weapon while clearing a house the top slide of her sidearm was locked back. I'd do it myself but I don't know where to find this movie as I saw it on TV one night and haven't done it before so wouldn't know how to make a page. Cheers
:Pavement was filmed in South Africa, even though the story is set in San Francisco. Funny how San Francisco, suddenly looks like the scenes from District 9? Lauren Holly used a Vektor CP1 pistol, and yes, she pops out and her slide is open, but it looks like she fired and the editor removed the sequence of her firing, wanting instead for the crazy dude to force her to withdraw by firing his shotgun first. It was an editorial decision that screwed up what was already filmed. The SWAT team used South African R4s, Vektor CR21s, some dummy SIG 550s and one M16A1(probably a replica). The weapons are what one expects from a South African production. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

== Actor's Pages ==

I see that a lot of the actor pages are being converted to the "table" format, but I don't know if it's clear what should be in the first category. Should the guns be placed first before what movie the actor used them in? I would prefer it this way, because it's easier to read that way. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
::You're right in pointing this out. I see NEW MEMBERS are changing the order in the tables on the ACTOR pages. Traditionally it's been WEAPON, then CHARACTER, then MOVIE TITLE, then notes. That format was chosen because it flows like a 'sentence'. I.e. John Doe has used the following ...... a [[Beretta 92FS]] as Krusty A. Clown in ''Attack of the Killer Cartoons'' (note), (year). WE should formalize a format and then institute it in the rules. Thanks for pointing this out. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

== Request ==

can someone do Wrongfully Accused with Leslie Nielsen. the reason I ask is because there is a strange LMG version of an M134 in it, and i would like to know what the hell it is, and if it is real.

== A question ==

So, this wiki has articles about video games, anime and animated films which are either 3d representations or drawings of guns. So why are stop-motion films, and other animation of this kind not allowed here? Why are they an exception?
::That answer is in the rules. The representations of guns are crude and not appropriate to waste IMFDB resources on. We haven't even covered the majority of our CORE genres (Films, Television shows, Anime & VG). And many of our pages are very incomplete or lame. So we tend to discourage new members from trying to introduce even MORE genres for us to cover. That and in those genres the guns are too crude to be listed as anything in particular. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:45, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

== Question: Live fire in movies ==

Hi, first of all, please excuse my English, I am not a native speaker. Secondly, please excuse I aks my question here although I know it is not the proper place for this, but I found no forum in this wiki. So here is my question:

When filming the German movie ''Spione'' (''Spys'', but there never was an English version) in 1928, there was live gun firing because they could not simulate it with special effects (1928), and the gun in the scene in question was fired in the direction of one of the actors. Strangely enough this caused a furor only because filming the scene was repeated several times by the director, who was was the lover of the actress in the scene, but it seems there was no talking about the live firing of a gun in a movie ''per se'' at all. So was using live fire in movies normal in a time they could not use special effects? Are there more films in which they used live fire instead of special effects? Thanks, Gustav

==[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imfdb IMFBD Wikipeda Page]==
It's been put up for speedy deletion. Could better writers than me go explain why it shouldn't? -[[User:JonathanDP|JonathanDP]] 18:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not sure I could myself. I mean, a Wikipedia article about another Wiki? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:57, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
::Too late, it's already gone. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 23:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
::Dude, there're many wikipedia articles on other wikis. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis Don't believe me?]--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 23:15, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:::I was actually the one who wrote that article (Rockmandrum on Wikipedia). I wrote that article because there are also different databases such as the IMCFD (Internet Adult Film Database) and I thought IMFDB should go there as it's a database, but my article got tagged for the lack of sources though there are some sources out there. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:56, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

==Featured Quotes question...==

I dunno who is in charge of the featured quotes section, but I'd like to know. Can we, the registered users, propose new ideas of featured quotes? 'Cause I got a few, and I'm sure other guys have 'em too. [[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 23:45 March 7, 2010 (UTC)

== Quote suggestions ==

You might want to make your suggestions in the discussion section of the [[Template:Quote]] page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 00:06, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

==Page that can't be edited==

Seems that the [[Ga-rei: Zero]] page can't be edited. There a problem with this or should it be just deleted instead to start all over? [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 20:57, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

==Just Cause 2==
Hey guys. I know the first Just Cause had no realistic weapons, but that changes with JC2. So far even from the demo I've made out a Desert Eagle, M4-type rifle, MP5/UMP cross, and an M136 AT4. If anyone could screencap the game, I'd gladly do descriptions and the rest. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Hi there==
New member here. Just wanted to drop a line. awesome site! Some pics I recognize off the net. Just a question. where do you get the great gun pictures from? I used to use Security arms and Guns of the world for reference but you guys have some of the best pics I've seen, including some that I have never seen anywhere else. If you license from some stock photo site, please let me know. I would be interested in getting access to their image library! :) Kyle

-For the most part pictures that are used are from MoviePropMaster2008, he is IMFDB's armorer, he has a lot of the pics of weapons on white backgrounds that you see. Many from movies they helped with. However, he doesn't have all of them. Just check for the picture you are looking before uploading any of your own. --[[User:Camden Hennis|Camden Hennis]] 16:20, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

== Director's Pages ==

If I've seen a page on the site like Hurt Locker or Face/Off or even Heat, I might like to know what other films the director has done, so I think the pages are helpful in that respect. Judging by the amount of pages we have for actors who have maybe used or carried a gun once, compared to how many directors pages we have, I don't think you're saving that much on space. Also, if you're looking to make this site a really good reference site, omitting these pages just doesn't make sense. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:32, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

- Well, next thing you know, we'll include pages/categories for Producers, Production designers, etc. There's only so much this place needs to put on here. There's already an 'Internet Movie DataBase' that has all that other stuff. Like MPM said on another page - Putting a bunch of emphasis on what directors/actors/etc did what takes away from the primary focus of the site, which is to display and discuss the firearms and info directly relating to them. The actors are only here because they're the ones actually seen in movies handling the firearms, but anything other than that I feel would just be too much. If you want to find out about Directors and the like, again, there's IMDB as well as other sites on the internet for that. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:16, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

== Franchise pages ==

Like director pages, can we make pages for particular game franchises, like all of the Call of Duty games or all the Medal of Honor games? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 16:21, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

- You mean like list pages, like we have for movie franchises, film genres and such? If so, that would be fine, would make reference/look-up of a particular title in a series easier. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 21:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:No, unless the franchises have tons of titles that are completely different. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out all of the games titled "Call of Duty" or Medal of Honor" belong to a certain series of games. And I have not seen a surge of titles that OMIT the franchise identifiers like a new title that is officially a part of the Call of Duty series that doesn't have 'Call of Duty' in the title. Unless that happens, the franchise identifiers are NOT NECESSARY and add to the overall clutter that IMFDB is trying to avoid. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:12, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
::I was just talking about the really big franchises, and I guess it'd only apply to the CoD and MoH series. There are a DOZEN games in each series, several of which I've never even heard of. Users here are obviously fans, given how detailed the pages are and the length of the discussion pages. Maybe a chronological listing? Or a glorified disambiguation page? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
:::There should be a ''see also'' addition to the pages, however, a glorified disambiguation page is not a bad idea. But the pages STILL need a 'see also' section at the bottom of the page that is complete. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:18, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

== Organizing firearms by type ==

I'm just organizing some pages. [[Heat]] , [[Ronin]] , [[McQ]], [[Public Enemies]] , [[Reign of Fire]] and so forth. I'm not changing the text or screencaps, but I'm anal and I am grouping the firearms by type. Just wanted to get that out there so nobody sends me hate mail. I'm not messing with anybody's hard work. Just helping to organize. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:42, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

- I took a gander at those pages, I actually like the grouped-together firearms, again, makes reference on the contents of a page easier. Especially if a page has a lot of guns that can be grouped under said categories like those pages.

Although some people like doing the pages by chronological appearance of the firearms (T2, as well as my own page, [[Nothing But Trouble]], for instance) but those pages either don't have a lot of guns or are very diverse.

But in pages where there are a lot of guns that can be grouped under some general types (Pistols, SMGs, Shotguns, Assault Rifles, etc) I think it helps. I've certainly seen some pages re-organized as such and it helped. I won't say it's the thing to do for ALL pages, but many would benefit from it. Just my thoughts. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm doing it to the pages that I created and a few pages with many many firearms like [[Heat]]. But I want to do it slowly. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

== Made for TV movies ==

What's the ruling on made for TV movies? I've seen them go either ways on this site. Dirty Dozen: the Next Mission is listed as a movie, while Lost Battalion is listed as TV, despite both being made for TV movies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:42, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
::'''What are you talking about? The Lost Battalion is not listed that way'''. For the record, made for TV Movies (or as called in Hollywood MOW for "Movie of the Week" as the major networks used to do, are listed as movies. They are not episodic series or Mini-series. If the entire thing is shown in a single showing then it's a movie. These made for TV movies are sometimes theatrically released overseas, and many of them are released on video/DVD as movies. Anyway that's the rule and I still don't see any violation of that rule. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:50, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I was referring to the weapons pages that link to it. For example, the M1917 pistol and rifle pages both have Lost Battalion under Television, while the M1911 and Chauchat entries have it under Film. And others not at all. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:16, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Well that's an error on those gun pages. If you see errors like that, which I am sure there are plenty of on IMFDB, please fix them when you see them. There is a LOT of breaks in cross indexing. I've long berated members for creating pages and NOT cross indexing them to actors and gun pages. And with new members creating new pages every other hour or so, the problem is just going to get bigger. All IMFDB members should try to fix cross indexing errors when they see them. Heck, there are pages I've made that I forgot to cross index some of the weapons entries on. But we must be vigilant and try to keep IMFDB accurate and up to date as possible. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:52, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

== The Last Hunt ==

Hi it's been a while since I've seen this but I remember Robert Taylor using a massive Winchester rifle. I was wondering if this was a Model 1886 since he was hunting buffalo with it and it used a .45-90 bullet.

I've seen a Model '86 Winchester rifle in the Monte Walsh remake and in a recent episode of Pawn Stars and they didn't really look as big as Robert Taylor's. I was just wondering if anyone knew if it was an '86 or maybe something else.

==Gun-releated quotes on actor/actress page==
I thought of an idea while looking at the quotes section: how about some quotes said by an actor/actress can go on their page? For example, Al Pacino's quote, "Say hello to my little friend," from [[Scarface]] can also go on his page, too. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

== Screen Used movie firearms ==

I have recently been searching the website for weapons which were pictures of actual movie firearms, example being weapons in Quentin Tarantino films.
if anyone could list some films for me that would be great. These are some of the ones i have already found:

*[[Scarface]]
*[[Pulp Fiction]]
*[[Reservoir Dogs]]
*[[True Romance]]
*[[Jackie Brown]]
*[[Lethal Weapon]] series
*[[Die Hard]] series
*[[Predator]]
*[[The Untouchables]]
*[[Austin Powers in Goldmember]]
*[[The Spirit]]
*[[Lord of War]]
*[[Beverly Hills Cop]]
*[[We Were Soldiers]]
*[[Tightrope]]
*[[The Enforcer]]
*[[The Dead Pool]]
*[[Dirty Harry]] - no S&W 29 unfortunately
*[[The Quick and the Dead]]
*[[Man on Fire]]
*[[Miami Vice - Season 3]]
*[[The Getaway (1972)]]
*[[3:10 to Yuma (2007)]]
*[[The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean]]
*[[Machete]]
*[[Fair Game]]
*[[Ghosts of Mars]]
*[[Wild Wild West]]
*[[S.W.A.T. (2003)]]
*[[Collateral]]
*[[Hidalgo]]
*[[Appaloosa]]
That's all I could think of, for now, also many have the pics on the site may not say they were used in a certain film, but a lot of them are movie guns.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

:::(a) Thank you. :) You're actually just chronicling my work for the site. 90% of the screen used photos I shot exclusively for IMFDB and I kinda wondered myself just how many titles I've covered. (b) it's sad but true that many OTHER gun pics are of guns that I'm certain have appeared in stuff, but unless record have been checked and verified, it can't be said with any sort of certainty. So we have TONS more movie used weapons than not in photographs. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:30, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

:We also have several guns from ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''. At some point, I think we need to make a page with all of the screen-used movie guns that MoviePropmaster has photographed for us. And then I also need to make a page with the gun pictures that my contact at ISS sent me. There are a lot of them on this site. Of course, there are also some that we've taken from other sites (like YourProps and PropStore), but I'd probably just put the gun pictures that are IMFDB exclusives. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:30, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
::That seems like a good idea MT.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:39, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

[[Book of Eli, The]] has that kind of stuff on its page and [[The Unit]] as well, if you want to be hardcore about it. [[Spades of Columbia]]

== Missing firearm (The Peacemaker) ==
Just got done watching this movie & there is a scene between the Russian General & one of the bad guys in the back of the truck (about 1 hour 15 minutes in) & I'm sure the gun that the General threatens him with is a Steyr GB pistol, he also uses it to shoot at the approaching helicopters, could someone else confirm this & update the page?

== Empty firearm ==
In some films you see that when a gun is fired, the chamber clicks empty but the slide doesn't lock back and I was just curious as to how they manage to do that?
:If it's showcased in a film, then it was intentional. Many directors who are unfamiliar with guns will use that action to indicate that a gun is empty.
:'''''Scene:''' Bad guy points pistol at face of good guy. It is a Beretta 92FS. He pulls the trigger dramatically. "click" nothing happens. Bad guy has panicked look on his face. "Click" "Click"! as he continues to pull the trigger. "Aha!" yells the hero as he swats away the empty gun and punches the bad guy in the face.'' DOH!
:It's done via editing. I seriously doubt most directors would end a gunfight with the phenomenon of a dud round (though dud rounds have appeared in the storylines of some shows). Or a bad primer. Or a worn or damaged magazine which does not engaged the slide lock. Or a worn or damaged slide. But seriously, anyone who fires a gun can pretty much tell when it's empty and devoid of rounds, unless it's not their gun and they're completely unfamiliar with it. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:15, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Bad magazines...its not the desired option on semi-autos.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:11, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

== glock variants ==
i just wondered, is a Glock 19 the same as a Glock 23 with the exeption of the caliber?

Yes

==Main Page error==
Has anyone ever gotten this error before? This happened to me many times. During this error, I cannot go to any pages unless there are links on a page and I'm logged out and I can't log in. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 13:51, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Mainpageerror.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

: I have had this happen to me, too. I am running up to date Firefox. It´s a rather odd error, really. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 17:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

:I've encountered it as well. I usually run IE as my browser, and it sometimes carries on when I go through Google Chrome too. Tends to be accompanied with a fair amount of lag as well when it occurs. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:26, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

:I've never had this error before, but I only update or run programs if I have to. It's running on bare bones only. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 20:05, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

- I had this error as well Friday evening (running FireFox), but as we had a badass lightning storm that probably played havoc with the signal, that ain't too surprising (Lag/connection issue, like Orca alluded to). But I can't speak for you other guys, though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:50, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

== Page Format Change? ==

I recently noticed that the page justification seems to be locked down, making actor pages with the table format seem particularly squashed if there's a lot of information. Is there a reason for this? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:58, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's an example:
[[Image:Actor Page Format.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Before, the page would stretch down to fill out the entire screen, but now it seems to stop in the middle.

:- I also have that same issue, though my screen hasn't lost that much, in which case I'd say it's locked at a particular resolution (1024 I'd have to figure, based upon my own display res). Not to mention it's also present here on this talk page and other pages as well. I too wonder what that's all about. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 13:50, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

::Might be for the upcoming ad test on IMFDB. will have to wait and see. If that is the case the we will have to change the layout on the pages to something more standard.--[[User:Phoenixent|phoenixent]] 16:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
==best guns for an assassin==
what would be the best guns for an assassin????
:That would depend on the situation he's in. Is the the assassin shooting from a distance? Sniper rifle then. In a place where there are other people around that could hear a gunshot. Suppressed small caliber handgun. You should also remember there is a million and one ways to kill someone. A gun is just one of tools to use.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 13:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Choice guns for an assassin:

-H&K USP
-H&K Mk. 23
-Any Glock models
-Agent 47's AMT Hardballers
-Walther P99
-Walther PP or PPK
-FN FNP-45 or FNP-49
-FN Five-Seven
-Colt M1911
-Para-Ordinance P14-45 or P18.9
-Kimber Warrior
-Colt M1911 or Variants
-Beretta 92, 81, or 84
-Browning Hi-Powered
-Ruger Mk. II (Best Bet)
-Browning BDA
-Luger Or High-Standard if your old-school
-Makarov
-SIG P220, P226, P228, P229
-Steyr M9 or GB
-These are some of my personal choices, feel free to comment.
I understand that, but I was looking for something more precise, like in "Assassins" they make a big deal about using those Ruger .22, but in "Collateral" the hitman uses a H&K .45 (well, he also use a Ruger .22), in "The Replacement Killer" the killer is into Berettas 92f, but what would be the perfect gun for a profesional, smart and effective assassin??????

It's hard to say if their is a "perfect" assassin's weapon because people will always have opinions, but the Ruger Mk. 2 is definitely a Top 5, look up a video of a supressed Mk. 2 and you'll see what I mean. I would have to say that either a .380 or .32 pistol for stealth but .45 or 9mm for power. [[Czar]]

I would go with two Beretta Model 71's with suppressors, extended 12 round mags, and loading it with hollow-point bullets.[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] 15:46, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

:In films like you mention, it's going to depend on what the writer or director chose to use. (Whether it was the ideal choice is another matter.) In Collateral he uses the H&K for the most part because noise isn't an issue and the .45 is a good round. He uses Ruger .22 only when in a restaurant. In the nightclub there's lots of people around, but he could get out with the crowd. The target also had several bodyguards. In the Replacement Killers the 92F was most likely chosen because Chow Yun-Fat used them in his prior films and knew how to handle them. There is no one gun that is the "perfect gun for a professional, smart and effective assassin." Since you're talking handgun distances there's too many good guns to choose from. Go with whatever you feel like in your story (I guess and hope that's the reason why you asked). If I had to choose I'd go with the 1911. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 12:49, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Agent 47 all the way, AMT Hardballers with optional longslide and supressor. More seriously, I guess a pistol like a Hi-Power or a Beretta 92 with a supressor would be good for closer range killings. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 14:36, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank ypu guys, Predator, I'm a scriptwritter, I don't own a gun and I don't want to kill anyone, so don't worry. I just like good assassins in movies, what about a H6K p7m8?????, It's such a compact gun for a 9mm, I always thought it was kind like a tactic gun, isn't it????? why Swat teams are into Kimbers?????
:Do you not speak English or are you just a kid? You grammar is terrible and with some many question marks at the end of your sentence, you must be a 12 year old or someone under 15. Also, it's very simple why SWAT like Kimbers, they like 1911s in general for its reliability. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:12, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Excalibur, English is not my first language, so I'm sorry that my grammar is so terrible, but I'm glad that the people here know what I mean, and BTW I'm 30 years old, not 12 or 15....

You can't errase the serial number of a Glock, so that make it a bad choice for an assasin, what do you people think????

Still thinking in the perfect gun for an profesional assassin (don't worry, I'm a scriptwriter, I don't own a gun and never shotted anything). Now I'm thinking that a 9mm compact is a good option, but it have to be alloy, steel or metal frame, not polymer, so you can errase the serial numbers, high mag capacity and it have to be in production. What would you recomend? I will love it to be a H&K P7M13, that is the perfect gun, a beauty, but is not currently under production and it will impossible to get a "clean" one. (Lenny)
:In my opinion, the best weapons for an assassin to snipe with would either be the Cheytec Intervention, Stealth Recon Scout, or the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series. This is because all three sniper rifles use high caliber ammunition, are extremely accurate due to their advanced designs, and are man-portable and not cumbersome to carry. A good CQB weapon would be the Magpul FMG9 because of the fact that you can have a weapon system at the ready discreetly without people knowing that you are armed and the fact that is is lightweight (only 1 pound), accurate, and sporting a high rate of fire. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 10:23, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

== Listverse.com ==
Here's a cool little list I found on The List Universe.com about the 10 greatest firearms in history.

http://listverse.com/2009/10/07/top-10-greatest-firearms-in-history/

not such a good list IMO. Where is the Sturmgewher 44? Basically started the assault rifle revolution? The Winchester M1873 (they didn't call it the gun that won the west for nothing) sure the Henry was first, but the Winchester set the standard. [[Special:Contributions/65.29.239.251|65.29.239.251]] 06:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

well, they can only fit ten in. [[User:jackbel]]

heres another one I found on that site: 10 greatest firearm designers.--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 02:24, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

http://listverse.com/2010/05/23/top-10-greatest-firearms-designers/

== This is ridiculous...==
anybody else think that the amount of pages slated for deletion is absolutely absurd and unneccesary?

We're cleaning out the pages that are either not good enough or not supposed to be on the wiki. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:21, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I am only restoring some of the pages that look like there was some work put into them. These can still be deleted, but I just want make sure that's what the consensus is. This is probably going to be discussed in the forum. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:06, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

: I made a note about the 'Documentary' matter in the discussion for the [[Mail Call]] page earlier. In any case, I'm sure the admins will let us know what will happen about all that in due course. Other than that, almost all the other pages slated for deletion are piss-poor pages that should indeed be in the Delete category. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:09, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

== Reviewguy/girl ==
So, did the search pay off? Do we have our own movie reviewer? What's the deal anyways? Just curious :)--[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 20:46, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

:- I almost forgot about that.. Well, indeed, what of it? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 21:08, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Are we gonna get a section for film reviews? If so, are the reviews gonna be the "normal" kind (what we see in the papers, tv, etc.) or are the reviews gonna emphasize gun use/usage in films?

== A Question ==
How do I submit a quote from a movie so it will appear on the Featured quotes section? [[User:jackbel]]

: Go [[Template:Quote|here]] and simply edit it in according to the template. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 05:21, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

well, how do you submit screencaps to the featured movies section? [[User:jackbel]]

: [[Template:FeaturedArticle|Click]]. Add it according to the template. If you are unsure of how it will look, try it out on the discussion page first. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 09:37, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

== Most Popular Gun? ==

I can't believe this hasn't been asked. So, Lets hear your views.

:- The top most viewed gun page on the site is the [[M1911 pistol series]] ‎(526,596 views), followed by the [[M16 rifle series]] ‎(420,778 views). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:00, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I actually meant popular by appearances. I've found out though [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:MostImages here] that it's the Beretta 92FS. Strange how the Annihilator 2000 is 2nd though?!

:That's because it is the icon that appears in the banner at the top of a page that is incomplete.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 11:20, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

:: Indeed, by the 'Linked most' attribute, the Annihilator image stat is misleading - Exclude the pages with the Incomplete template and it is certainly NOT the second most used gun image. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

== An urgent notice ==

If you see something that is wrong, PLEASE don't just say so, CHANGE it yourself.--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 05:14, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Uh, I'm afraid that statement is a bit ambiguous and potentially misleading. We all have our own opinion on what we see is 'wrong' on a page, and based on my own personal experience, you ''don't'' make changes based solely on that. I believe what Jackbel means is that if you see something that you are ''certain'' is wrong/incorrect on a page, especially spoilers, spelling/format errors, obviously false information, or anything of that particular sort, then it's probably ok to change that. ''Otherwise'', it is probably better to make a note in the proper discussion page about it, especially if you're not absolutely certain, as the RS&P states. Not to barge in, but I just think that needed a bit of flushing out. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok, no need to get so hasty --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 20:08, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: Sorry, I really wasn't trying to snob you man, but from what I gather, it's usually better for users to make notes and ask first about any serious or notable edits as many of the other members/admins find that less annoying than reverting bad edits - A note about that is in the RS&P. Again, not trying to snob you dude, Honest! :) [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:53, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Facebook ==

We should totally have like a "recommend" or "like" buttons on the database... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 13:33, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

== Do firearms work in space? ==

Stupid hypothetical question, but was watching the most recent episodes of [[Stargate Universe]] and one character was carrying a [[Heckler & Koch UMP]] in a hard vacuum, zero gravity situation. This got me wondering, would unmodified firearms reliably operate in space? I can imagine recoil and blowback operated weapons working ok, but am not so sure about any gun that uses gas operation. Also, would the coldness of space cause problems for the rounds to go off, and if they did would the gun components fracture at this low a temperature (About -270 degrees Celsius for arguments sake). And then even if the gun did fire there would be the problem that it would then very quickly overheat, as there would be no air to cool it, not to mention the fact that any lubricants would either be frozen, or instantly vaporise in the vacuum. I know that there were experiments by the Russians putting a Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 (or NR-30) cannon into space and shooting down target satellites, but has there ever been any experimentation with regular small arms? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 16:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

definitely not, for the same reason that there can't be any explosions in space, because fire needs oxygen and theres none of that in space.--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:44, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Not true actually, all gunpowders and the majority of explosives do not require external oxygen to detonate, as they have an oxidant as part of the composition. How do you think a torpedo explodes? Or how a rocket can work in space? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Firefly the series does a good job addressing that issue. i believe it was "Our Mrs. Reynolds".--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 21:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:I remember that episodes, and Jayne said Vera (his gun) needed air around her to fire, so I believe that this line was purely based on the misconception that bullets need oxygen to detonate. Or it could be that Vera is not a conventional weapon as we know it. [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== The African Queen ==

Can someone do a page for [[The African Queen]] (1951)? I tried, but my DVD screwed up and I'd really like to see that film on this site. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:22, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

== Not allowing PNG's ==

Someone noted that if we're discouraging uploading of PNG files, then it should be removed as an acceptable format on the upload page. This has been asked in the forum, but is there a way to do that? Is there a way to just restrict the uploading of files to just JPG's only? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:02, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

== Another question ==

Would whoever is putting screen used guns on their main page please stop? Screen used gun pictures belong in their discussion pages under "Additional Varients". --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 04:29, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

== Satchel charges ==

We've all seen these in movies or video games, or even on Mail Call with R. Lee Eremy. Designs and explosives charges vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, with field versions being cobbled together from whatever's on hand. But as far as the satchel charges built for use by the American military concerned, is there any information available on how they were made? Was there an official type of carrying bag that received a military designation and was ordered up under a governmental work contract? [[Ballistics_Expert2]]

== Colt Ad ==

haha, look at this ad for Colt from 1933 --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 22:11, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:Works for me. Those prices really work for me. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 03:29, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

::I see someone else reads Cracked.com.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 04:04, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Colt ad.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

::You sure this AD is from 1933? 84 dollars for that Colt Woodsman translates into $1,390.00 in 2010 dollars. That Colt Officer's Model in .22 LR is priced $79.00 which is $1,310.00 now. Actually dollar for dollar, they are more EXPENSIVE relative to what people earned than today's prices. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:52, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
:::I did a search in google, and I ran across two sources that say the ad is from 1939. If you run it through the inflation calculator though, the prices are still a bit high. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:42, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

== Tomorrow When the War Began ==

Hi, if possible could someone do an article on the Australian film Tomorrow When the War Began, it's pretty much the Australian version of Red Dawn but I'm not too familiar with the weapons or how to even create a page to do it myself, cheers.

The guns I saw used were the Fold stock AK-47's, AKM's, .22 Caliber rifles, a handgun I think to be is the H&K USP, some light Machineguns and the warhead's of the RPG-7. (I'm an American-Pinoy who watched it in NZ)

==Ban a Wangchao today?==
So how many Wangchaos do we have to ban? Some spammer is up to Wangchao58. He's like Doctor Who. He doesn't die. He just comes back as yet another incarnation. You know you haven't lived unless you've banned a user named "Wangchao_ _ "[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:43, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
:i dont get to ban people. :( lol -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]

==Ads now?==
Stupid question time: are the ads supposed to be here? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 00:10, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

: http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=1232&page=4 --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 11:55, 3 January 2011 (UTC).

==So, two questions==

First of all, how do you upload pictures to this site, for those of us who are wiki-impaired. Secondly, I'm trying to start a page up for The Cape, that new TV series, and I wanted to know if anyone would be willing to help me, as it'll be my first page. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:45, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

: First go to the [[Special:Upload]] page. Click on "upload" and select the file you want to upload. Make sure that all images you upload are .jpgs, the .png format isn't allowed per the rules. Now, insert the name of the Film/Television Show/other Medium, that the page you are working on belongs to the Summary section like this: <nowiki>[[A-Team, The|The A-Team]]</nowiki>. Note that you can have the link display a different text than the one of the page you are linking to. The '''The A-Team''' for example is called "A-Team, The", but since that isnt exactly fun to read I used the | to put the "The" were it belongs. Then you need the appropriate category. These can be found here:[[:Category:Images]]. Insert them just like you inserted the title. Afterwards the only thing left is to upload the image. Once that is done, insert it into your page like this:

<nowiki>

[[Image:KingdomHK912.jpg|thumb|400px|right|Description]]

</nowiki>

:The first part is obviously your file name. Thumb forces the wiki to reformat it into a thumbnail of (here) 400 pixels. Instead of "right", there are also "left" and "center". But the only allowed page formatting is "left" for screenshots and "right" for the movie poster. Replace Description with an appropriate summary of the images contents. It´s also useful for inserting trivia notes and the likes.

: And as for starting your own page: Simply copy the basic layout from already existing pages and analyse what you see. [[Rules%2C_Standards_and_Principles|Rules, Standards and Principles]] also contains a lot of basic tips and guidelines that´ll help you get started. Once you feel like delving deeper into the wonders of wiki formatting: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki . I hope that helped. If you have any more questions, just put them up here on Talk:Main Page. The admins and mods usually give this place a lot of attention. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 06:56, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

== What caliber is this? ==

Whilst capping for the [[Red Cap]] page I came across this shot of a L85A1 being reloaded on the firing range:
[[Image:L85a1_100_2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Sgt McDonagh ([[Tamzin Outhwaite]]) reloads her rifle at the range.]]
Clearly the rounds in the magazine are neither live nor blank 5.56mm rounds, as they are rounded rather than spitzer bullets, and they are overall shorter/fatter. Also, there is some kind of spacer fitted at the front of the magazine to accommodate the shorter rounds. Regardless, the fact that it is firing a different round is bizarre to me, as have never heard of any SA80s firing anything other than 5.56mm other than a rare few converted to .22LR for training. Has anyone ever seen this type of round before, or explain why it is used in an L85A1? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:11, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
::They really look like the frangible rounds I've used before. These look like hard bakelite bullets, but they disintegrate when hitting any surface harder than they are. THUS they are still lethal, but they don't over penetrate. I remember some dude on the internet squawking because one of the frangible .223 training rounds he was testing punched through 8 1" thick soft pine boards. OF course they would They're not "non-lethal" rounds. They're plenty lethal. But they're designed not to overpenetrate, so something like sheet metal or thick plywood would turn these rounds to dust. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:52, 10 May 2011 (CDT)
::P.S. of course they could just be really crappy looking dummy rounds that the props department came up with..... I've seen dummy .30 CARBINE rounds used in an M14 magazine when the director (at the last minute) wanted a shot of the magazine before it was loaded and he did NOT want to see the crimped blanks. Doh! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:54, 10 May 2011 (CDT)

== television series from 1993 ==

in 1993 there was a television show starring Nick Mancuso.
He was a hitman with all kinds of cool looking guns, and he drove a corvette.
The show was called "matrix".
i am suprised to find nothing from that show here at imfdb.

-Max

::Why are you surprised Max? (1) the show has NOT been rebroadcast with any sort of regularity. Sure I used to watch it all the time when it was on and once during a Sci Fi channel run, but I haven't seen it since. and (2) It's not out on DVD. So exactly how are we supposed to do a page on the show? I for one would love to do pages on TONS of shows, but the jerks who own the rights won't release them on DVD. :( Shame. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:16, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this show is not available on DVD. I believe that there's some clips on Youtube. Another interesting bit of trivia is that [[Carrie-Anne Moss]] was also on the show. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

== Trivia on the Front Page ==

I just saw this bit of trivia on the main page today:

"... that a lot of television series substitute the M249 for visually modified Daewoo K3 machine guns? "

Shouldn't that instead read "...M249 _with_ visually modified Daewoo..."?

- Jeff
:I fixed it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:11, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
::Sweet deal. -Jeff

== Harrington & Richardson Pistol ==

I found this little pistol on Arundel Militaria.com, the site calls it a "Harrington & Richardson .32 Semi-Automatic Pistol", but doesn't give the exact name. Can anyone here tell me? --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 11:04, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
[[Image:Harrington & Richardson.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/deactivated-guns/allied-deactivated-guns/deactivated-very-rare-harrington-richardson-32-semi-automatic-pistol/prod_969.html

:I believe it is just called a H&R Self Loading Pistol. Have seen it referred to as the "Webley Type", due to it being basically an American made version of the Webley and Scott automatic pistol. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:01, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

== Modern Warfare 3 ==

Just to let you guys know, www.findmakarov.com has appeared which contains a countdown, reportedly until the announcement of Modern Warfare 3 in 5 days time (Next Wednesday). --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] 16:52, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

*It's a hoax. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 06:57, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
::It isn't a hoax, but it isn't for Modern Warfare 3. It is apparently for a "Call of Duty inspired project" from a Toronto based group called ''We Can Pretend''. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 23:29, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sarah Palin's Alaska Shotgun? ==

What kind of shotgun was the one Sarah was shooting at the range with what I recall had a foregrip for the pump.

== Pig Hunt ==

i think this site should have a page for the 2008 movie, "Pig Hunt"

:If you want a page for it, make it yourself. This is a wiki, making pages is pretty easy if you put a little effort into it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 04:02, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

Bullseye. Feel free to make the page.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:20, 11 March 2011 (MSK)

== Signatures ==

Not to sound stupid, but what's the (MSK) in this --> [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 06:44, 5 March 2011 (MSK) mean? It used to be (UTC) (whatever that means), and why does it say it's the 5th, It's the 4th where I am (GA). - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]

: ''MSK'' = Moscow Standard Time.'' UTC'' = Coordinated Universal Time. ''GA'' stands for the United States State of Georgia and is that states code used by the United States Postal Service. At least I think so. Basically it's the Time Zone you are in. '''Preferences -> Date and Time'''. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 15:19, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

::Yeah, my timezone was set to "Other." Testing to see what it stamps this. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:26, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== Problem ==

I'm having a problem with the site (it might be related to the new change, I'm not sure) but whenever I search for any Smith & Wesson, I get redirected to [[Smith]] --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 05:22, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

It works now. I just checked the search by copying and pasting what you wrote. It's good now [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:06, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

*Yeah, for a while yesterday it seemed "&" was an invalid character. Trying for any Heckler & Koch gun would land you on the page "Heckler," too. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:56, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

: Problem still persists for me. Going to the [[Smith & Wesson Escort]] page always sends you straight to the page on [[Smith]] --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 17:41, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

::Looks like it's happening again. XM8 page was working earlier but now dumps me straight on "Heckler," and Kane & Lynch 2 to "Kane." [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 18:01, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

Anyone else got the problem that the latest revision, discussions and whatever list is missing from the bottom of the main page? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 21:47, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

Yeah im missing it too, both physically and emotionally --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 23:16, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

: FYI Bunni removed it to "test speed improvements". http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=history --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 23:29, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

Can we have it back now? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 13:08, 20 March 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I miss it too and I hope it's coming back. It was great because you knew what was going on instantly when you come here. Besides, the main page looks a bit too empty without it --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 13:46, 20 March 2011 (CDT)

It is a bit shit without it, unless you're looking for something specific the discussions and revisions is one of the main reasons I come here. [[User:Fitz175|Fitz175]] 06:20, 21 March 2011 (CDT)
::True dat --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 07:26, 21 March 2011 (CDT)

==Deus Ex: Human Revolution==

Hi, fellas. Just want to ask you if this game could have its own page? (The first game's page has been deleted) This game features a modified hi-tech FAMAS, MP7 and some more weapons. The weapons look like in Crysis or F.E.A.R. 2 and since those games have their own page this game should also. (I guess I don't have to tell you the history and influence of this franchise compared to the "new kid" Crysis....) --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 20:28, 6 March 2011 (MSK)
:I reckon so, the guns in the second game look alot less generic and made up than in the first game. From the look of it the SMG is a hybrid of an MP5 and an MP7, and the combat rifle does look like a FAMAS with a modified handguard and a few other bits. Granted they are not 100% real, but they are a hell of alot closer to real guns than most of those on the [[Crysis 2]] page. There is also a 10mm automatic pistol and a revolver firing explosive rounds in the gameplay trailer, but I don't know if these are based on anything. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:13, 9 March 2011 (MSK)

== The New Website Layout ==

This new website layout is seriously screwed up, i cant get to any weapon pages with "Heckler" or "Smith & Wesson" in the name, whoever did this seriously needs to rethink it.....

I second that. The whole thing looks a mess. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] 19:25, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

Can we go back to having the latest Discussions, New Entries, and Modified Entries on the homepage too? This new layout is a big step backwards in functionality. ''Wraith''

:We're working on it, but the software upgrade was a fact of life, we were running a seriously outdated version of the software with many security vulnerabilities. [[Special:Contributions/68.124.159.34|68.124.159.34]] 03:08, 9 March 2011 (MSK)

==Upload?==

I cannot upload any images since the update... can anyone confirm?? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 23:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

: I had that problem early on. I was first able to upload again around midday today (that's Central European Time mind you). --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 22:21, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

::I don't seem to be able to log in. o_O [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 14:56, 10 March 2011 (MSK)

== FN FAL vs M16 ==

I would totally choose the FN FAL. M16's give to many problems and is too weak. Any opinions?--[[User:Mikey|Mikey]] 22:24, 11 March 2011 (MSK)
:you can compare a 7.62semi/full auto to a 5.56 semi/3 round, either way FAL=more stopping power, M16=acuraccy. i heard alot of the reliability issues are being solved too.
In a way I really don't respect the M16 due to:

*The lack of reliability, M16's jam alot and could cost a soldier his/her life.
*Accuracy can do but it has little ability to stop a potential target(unless a marksman and can give a few well placed shots.)

FN FAL:

*Has good accuracy and is more reliable.
*The FAL is capable of taking out potential targets behind any sort of cover what so ever, unlike the famous 50. BMG Sniper rifles and other rifles(5.56 or 7.62)where one would have to wait for the target to "pop out" behing cover.
*No matter where a soldier hits his target with his FAL the target will drop.

Are you kidding me? Almost all M16/M4 reliability issues are a result of not proper maintenance or bad mags. Then you say the FAL has more power than a "50." or other 7.62 rifles. You are the epitome of a CoD armchair warrior.

From experience, the FAL (and the Anglo variations) will make a group 3-4 inches wide, and about 10-12 inches high at 300 metres. This is caused by the front and back sights being on opposite sides of the hinge pin. The front sight is on the upper receiver and the back sight is on the lower receiver. The play or wobble between the receivers causes the vertical dispersion. Talking to Australian Army Armorers, they said there were tricks to getting the SLRs to shoot. The most common was to use oversized pins and to never open the rifle unless absolutely necessary. The M16/M4 has both sights on the upper receiver, which eliminated the effect of the wobble between the receivers. ''Wraith''

Personally I believe that M16s are one of the most reliable modern rifles, any gun is prone to jamming under poor conditions, the M16 is no different. But this statement about an FAL being more powerful than a 50 caliber rifle, honestly I find it to be outrageous. And there is a difference between stopping power and bullet penetration that I don't believe you took into account. --[[User:Glockness Monster|Glockness Monster]] 23:10, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

This is a very dumb discussion, these are two completely different weapons, one's a 7.62x51 Battle rifle, the other is a 5.56x45mm Assault rifle. One's not better than the other they're just different. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:57, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

I just noticed this and thought I'd weigh in, I've talked with some of my friends who used the SLR, which I believe is a FN FAL, during their time in the British Military and they were telling me how they would be firing tracers and the bullets would ricochet off of certain things and you could see the tracer round shoot up into the sky and keep going. I was also told that if fired in an open area with nothing to stop the bullet it would go for about 2 miles. I doubt the 5.56 would do the same. A lot of British soldiers when issued the SA80 were very disappointed with how underpowered it felt compared to their SLRs, that and they were horribly unreliable. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:45, 13 November 2011 (CST)

== How do I make a page? ==

I want to for a movie and video game. I do <nowiki>[[Category:Video Game]]</nowiki> then I put the game name right after it. I get "Bad Title" everytime.
:You may have figured this out on your own or maybe you tried it when we were doing sever changes and that was the problem. Did you go here? http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Category:Video_Game --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 20:13, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

==Help please==
Hi, can you help me with this WW2 flamethrower? Is this even a real weapon? I need to ID it for an upcoming page I'm working on. Thanks. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:37, 23 March 2011 (CDT)
[[Image:Unknown-flamethrower.jpg||none|300px|?????]]

*Flammenwerfer, isn't it? You're supposed to wear it sideways with the hose coming under your right arm, not that way up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:07, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Rainbow Six ==

Why are there TWO pages for Rainbow Six Lockdown? One features 43 weapons the other only 8 or 9. I think one of the should go don't you think? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:14, 26 March 2011 (CDT)

== M733 ==

I just wanna know the official correct answer for Colt commando M733. This site says that in Black hawk down use M733 and shoe the picture from the movie. The problem was on the m16/AR15 page this site also claims that M733 has M16A1 rear sight, but the one Black hawk down use had A2 rear sight. Which one is the official M733? If somebody can find the fact for me will be appreciated.
Thank you so much
:I asked this question also to another mod. The one used by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, I don't think it even has a short barrel. Probably a 14.5" or 16" barrel with a fake can (suppressor) slipped over it. I'm pretty sure the stock pic MPM took is a real M733. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 08:59, 7 April 2011 (CDT)
::The Colt brochure images of the 733 depict it with A1 rear sights, so that would propbably be he "official" version. However, it is my understanding that Colt manufactured these carbines from whatever parts were available, so there does tend to be some variation whilst still keeping the same designation. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:39, 8 April 2011 (CDT)

== How are Halo weapons not allowed? ==

So the EM-1 Railgun, a rectangle with a bunch of accessories glued on, has a page, but the BR55 battle rifle doesn't? The Battle rifle could pass for a real-life weapon system, yet we have the "holy shotgun" and "mouse's shotguns", which are completely fabricated, on the site? Hell, there's even a mention of that stupid nerf toy mockup rocket launcher from Hulk!

First of all, sign your name or username when you leave a message. Second, read the rules. The Rocket Launcher from the Hulk even if it is a modified toy, looks enough like a "real" firearm, a viewer may question what it is. Now with Halo, the developers themselves said they did NOT look at ANY real-life weapons when designing their guns, and that any resemblance to a real firearm is purely coincidental. -[[User:1morey]] April 11, 2011 4:59 PM (EST)
:Exactly. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:05, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

any one noticed that the sniper rifle from halo looks alot like a NTW-20.Why don't we have a halo Page--v 15:51, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]
:Yes, but we're not making a page that has '''one''' gun that ''sorta'' looks like a NTW-20, I'm really tired of you Halo fanboys always pushing to have Halo pages, Halo pages have been made and deleted at least 25 times or more. The reason we allow some very futuristic sci-fi games like say Crysis or Crysis 2 is because ''most'' of their firearms are ''heavily'' based on real firearms. BTW I am a big fan of the Halo series myself, but I don't push to make Halo pages because I know better. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:43, 20 August 2011 (CDT)
:It's not Halo fanboys but one troll. Notice the spelling or lack of it and how Immediatly they are pushing for a Halo page.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:24, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

==Just a note==

Could people adding new movies to gun pages that don't have tables consider adding the ''exact'' release date to all new entries if they're not going to build a table? I'm planning to have a crack at putting proper tables on [[Franchi SPAS-12]] soon, and it's kinda daunting to have to look up the precise release date of every single movie listed just to get the order right. Perhaps we could put day / month in the tables as well as year to make adding new entries in the correct order easier? Also, can we standardise whether the tables go newest to oldest or oldest to newest? I've seen pages doing both, and sometimes even putting titles in alphabetical order. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:59, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== A little help ==

Is there a way to change the name of a uploaded image? Cause I named a image "Nice Colt Anaconda" but I don't like it and want to change it. Or do I have to delete it somehow and upload a new version. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:26, 27 April 2011 (CDT)

== '''''Question''''' ==

I am going to add an image that i just got from the net for the Metal Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater page. but can you add pics in this website from your own computer? '''Please reply back!!!'''
[[User:Dangerclose96|Dangerclose96]]

== Screencap from PC ==

How do i screencap from pc for my pc version video games?
And how do i upload images from my computer to this website?
[[User:Dangerclose96|Dangerclose96]]

== Vandalism ==

God, I wanna shoot all these vandalizing asses in the face! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:51, 11 May 2011 (CDT)

*There's only one, it's a pile of proxies or a botnet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:55, 11 May 2011 (CDT)
:: Great. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:00, 11 May 2011 (CDT)

== Guns chronologically or by type? ==
Is there a preferred way that pages should be organised, as in all guns in one chronological section or separated by type (pistols, assault rifles, machine guns etc.)? I have seen it both ways on here, so is there a nominal cut off point where there are enough guns that they should be split into sections? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:28, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

*I must say I personally prefer by type. If you're trying to answer "what kind of gun was that?" it's a lot easier to figure it out based on what kind of gun it was rather than roughly where in the movie it appeared. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:33, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

== Evil Dead + Evil Dead 2 ==

Could someone ad photos of the shotguns used in those two films?

== IMFDB on ipod ==

My computer is so old and slow that I often just use my ipod to access the site, but when trying to view pages with images, the never seem to fit the page, I'm not sure if it's something that could be fixed, but I was wondering if anyone has looked into it. --[[User:Glockness Monster|Glockness Monster]] 23:34, 9 July 2011 (CDT)
:Try going into your preferences and changing the skin. I don't know about iPods, but the site displays fine on the Vector (ie, non-mobile) skin on an Android phone. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:09, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

I couldn't find a skin for the iPod. But it's not that big of a concern. Thanks anyways though. --[[User:Glockness Monster|Glockness Monster]] 00:08, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

== The Howling ==

I'm suprised that no one has created a page for The Howling. It's like the most classic werewolf movie ever made.

== Some questions ==

1. What is the oldest film on this site (I mean release, not the first page made)?
2. What is the largest Movie page?
3. What is the largest Anime Page?
4. What is the largest Video Game Page? - [[User:1morey]] July 18, 2011 10:48 AM

:Not sure about the oldest page, but think it might be ''[[The Racketeer]]'' (1929). Longest Movie page is [[‎Terminator 2: Judgment Day]], longest Anime page is [[Black Lagoon]], and longest Video Game page is ''[[‎Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots]]''. Just got these from looking at the [[Special:LongPages|long pages]] list, so these aren't necessarily the things with the most guns. In particular, the terminator 2 page has 32 guns but a ridiculous number of pictures (e.g. there are 22 pictures in the 1887 section). [[Punisher, The (2004)|The Punisher]] page is smaller, but has more weapons listed. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:05, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

If you're going by the number of firearms (explosives and rocket launchers excluded), [[Hard Boiled]] and [[Last Action Hero]] are contenders. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 21:49, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

I think most weapons in a videogame article is probably ''[[Project Reality]]'' which has a hundred and twelve. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:09, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

== Broken FA ==

I just saw the main page looking like this:

[[Image:Missing FA.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

I'm guessing that means one of the featured articles has some bad markup in it that's preventing it from displaying properly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

::I've had that same thing happening to me, all the time... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 18:48, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

::: That problem has been around since the [[User_talk:Milkovich#Blank_feature_article|dawn of time]]. Went through the page and tried to find any apparent errors back then, but to no avail. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 04:32, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I think the best way to find out which ones are broken would be to set it to display them sequentially rather than randomly and refresh the main page, noting which ones it skips. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:19, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

== Again The Howling ==

I know I listed it before but could someone please add this movie to the pages. It has like five or six sequels which is ridiculous, but dont get confused I just want the first one on the site.

You can also try to do it yourself........ ? Also sign your posts. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 14:45, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

I would... if I knew how! I dont spend everyday on the computer. This is actually the first time ive been on this site for like a month

== Ultimate Question! ==

Who invented the first gun?

:The first guns were Chinese 'fire-lances' which had shrapnel added to them; gunpowder was discovered by Chinese alchemists who were trying to create the "elixir" which would make people live forever. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:06, 17 August 2011 (CDT)
::lol, When I first saw this question a while back I was gonna say the Chinese too, but I said meh, I might be wrong. But I was right! I'm a undiscovered genius! XD ;P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 10:49, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== CIA ==

What handguns do the CIA use?

That information is above your security clearance, citizen. Now move along. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:08, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== Future weapons ==
No not the show,I was thinking about future weapons and I was wondering How would the guns of the future look like ,Bullpups?Lazer?High caliber? But i was thinking of just a couple of future gunz I created see my [[User:Gundoiler|My page]].Anyways what will happen to the guns from now?--v 15:33, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]

== Media with one REAL weapon ==

Can those be added or not? The ''Rules, Standards and Principles'' state that a media MUST have MORE than one weapon to qualify. Yet we have lots of pages with one weapons. I stated this on [[Talk:Rules, Standards and Principles]], but no one ever responded. Some examples: The old ''Doom'' games feature a double-barreled shotgun as a usable weapon. In ''Gears of War'', Miniguns can be seen mounted on choppers. I'm really curious, I don't wanna waste my precious time if the pages will get nuked eventually. Hmm? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 09:48, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Did you forget the exceptions to the rule? Please be sure to read the rules completely :D
::::''There are some important exceptions to this rule:''

::::''1) the firearm is identifiable, well seen and important to the story. A film where 'some character' wields an 'unknown revolver' means nothing.''
::::''2) it has enough screen time for any viewer to wonder what make or model it is. .''
::::''3) it must drive the plot forward and not be an 'incidental' prop (like something hanging on the wall in the background).''
:::::''(a) If it is in the background, it must be 'interesting enough' to merit someone asking the question 'what is that?' Thus if it has enough screen time and it is identifiable, it qualifies. If it is a random 'set dressing' or a 'shape' held by a extra, then it does not qualify.''

:::::''4) the single firearm rule only applies if the firearm is real. If it is an obvious toy or airsoft gun, then it does not qualify. Having a lone character wave around an 'orange plug' airsoft toy does not merit a page. If the film is filled with various replica or high quality airsoft weapons than can fool the casual viewer, then it qualifies, if only to shine light upon the fact that the guns are fakes.''
:::::[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 16:02, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

This is a really tough call. There are some films where there's only one weapon used, but it's a major plot point in the film. Videogames are understandably lame when there's only one real weapon. I would suggest a case-by-case basis. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 15:31, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

:There were a couple in Doom that looked reasonably real (the pistol and shotgun, though they were both actually cap guns bought from the local Toys R Us) and were enough to fool one of the guys who put the old page together (the pistol used to be ID'd as a Beretta). Double barrel shotgun is just a generic one, though. I'd say for one not worth featuring you'd be looking at something like '''Quake 2'' which only has a [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/GMCMA/Other%20stuff/Misc-Top30UniqueGuns-28-SuperShotgun.gif NeoStead-thing] (which is treated as a double-barrel pump action using an invisible forend) unless you count anything portable with six barrels as an M134 regardless of what it looks like.

:I think for ones like that we should just document them on gun pages with redlinks for the sake of completeness but not bother building whole pages. If there's interest in making a page or someone tries to, just turn it into a redirect to the gun page in question. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:58, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

== User: Cbeattie ==

Can I please have some help? Cbeattie is bugging the living hell out of me. ಠ_ಠ Just look at the "Terror Scoped rifle from The Saboteur" and the "sabouter 44 pistol" section on my talk page. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:33, 10 September 2011 (CDT)

== Deer Hunter "Michael's deer rifle" Win VS Rem. ==

This database states that the deer rifle belonging to Michael(Robert Deniro)Is a Winchester Model 70. I must disagree.

The rifle in question is no doubt a left handed version of a standard prodcution hunting rifle Prior to 1978(Deer Hunter Release) only 2 manufactures produced left handed bolt rifles, Remington and Savage. Winchester did not develop and market a left handed version of the modle 70 until the mid 1990's.

I would however like to hear opinons from more seasoned veterans of this board.

Thanks

== Elephant White ==

I suggest the 2011 thriller Elephant White to be listed in the imfdb. It features a lot of weapons and they play big part in the film. Characters also talk about these weapons. Some have special modifications and I'd like to read imfdb professinalish commentary on these.
There are even references to other films and their guns. This would make a good imfdb listing.

::I once thought of doing a page for it, but most of the guns were airsoft guns, so that was a huge downer for me. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 07:56, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

::: Really? Thanks. This is why I use this site. I couldn't tell.

:::: I have a couple of unfinished projects that I'm working on right now, but maybe when I'm done I'll consider doing a page for it... If someone doesn't beat me to it. After all, Djimon Hounsou is one of my favorite actors. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 08:34, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

== Question ==
Would it be okey if I made a page fo the new animated movie BATMAN: YEAR ONE ? Most of the weapons in that movie are quite well drawn and recognisable.
:Without considering if it it is worthy, it is not officially released until the 18th so if you have seen it you must have a leaked version, so should wait until it is actually released. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:01, 12 October 2011 (CDT)
:Okey thanks. --[[User:thejoker|thejoker]]

I would suggest you put up two or three screenshots of the weapons seen in the movie on this page to determine if a page is warranted. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:56, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

== Yugoslav Partisan films ==

I wish they were pages that features the movies with Yugoslav Partisans, besides Force 10 from Navarone. i'm talking about the films that were made in Yugoslavia back then. most of them featured an actor named Velimir "Bata" Živojinović. and famous Partisan films that he was in such as Most/The Bridge, Bitka na Neretva/The Battle of Neretva, Sutjeska, and Valter Brani Sarajevo/Valter Defends Sarajevo. also the majority of the Partisan films have the usual German WWII weapons that both the Germans and Yugoslav Partisans used such as, Karabiner 98k, MP40, MG34 and MG42, and some pistols that i couldn't recognize besides a Walther P38.
:If you want a page to be made for a movie, then screencap the movie and make a page for it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 23:44, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

== Movie Quotes ==

Is there any way to get quotes from the movie page you're looking at? If not, I think it would be cool if there was some kind of link to see all the best gun quotes from your favorite movies without going through some randomizer bologna. Any interest in that?

Isn't there already movie quote wiki? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 19:01, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

I was just wondering, since there is already the quote generator on here, if there was any easy way to link them up with the pages.

== Amazon Link ==

Added an amazon link to the bottom of all pages besides the main page - I'm just testing this out. I'd like to get rid of some of the banner advertisements, especially the left and bottom ones - hopefully this can replace the income. I'm working on having it not appear on Special and Talk pages. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 22:03, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== Team America: World Police ==

I was surprised to see that this 2004 marionet comedy movie does not appear on IMFDB. Would it be against any IMFDB 'rules' if I created such a page? I watched the movie again over the weekend and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Most guns used by the marionets were indeed somewhat fictional but the creators really seem to have been inspired by real-life guns and I'd love to get started on an IMFDB page for this movie. If nobody objects I will get to work on this. Thanks in advance for your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:02, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:I wouldn't think so; due to the scale of the props, I'm not sure that the weapons would actually be based on actual weapons, just "moulds" of them. I've seen the movie, and I think that they are very generic, so I think that making this page would go against the IMFDb rule of actually identifying weapons. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 15:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The weapons are pretty faithful to real guns. There is at least a Minimi, M134, M4 with 40mm grenade launcher, MP5K (with the stainless steel Navy suppressor), MP5A3, SKS RPG-7 and a few different varieties of AK-47 (identifiable, such as Norinco Type 56 with pig-sticker bayonet and Romanian AIMS). These are just off the top of my head and from a couple of clips on youtube. Even though the guns obviously aren't real I think it deserves a page, as they are all faithful representation of real guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:55, 13 November 2011 (CST)
Thanks for your quick comments, I understand the initial hesitation. However, just check below screenprints and you will see that indeed the makers did their homework, maybe they even checked IMFDB! Commando552's memory serves him right!
[[Image:TeamAmerica-screenshotexample.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I agree that the movie contains a lot of nonsense but I am actually tempted to go ahead, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:11, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:And It will be deleted just like last time as the "Weapons" are just whatever generic 1/6th scale guns the directors could find. they are obviously not real. The page has been deleted before and will most likely be removed again. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:17, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The guns in anime and video games aren't real either. The guns aren't generic from what I can see, can identify them all (more so than some of the guns on pages like [[Crysis 2]]). If mods so no then fair enough, but I think it should have a page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:57, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::: I'm with Commando552 on this one, if it's not eligible because the guns aren't real then all video games and anime should be removed because those guns aren't real they're drawings or digital constructs. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:38, 13 November 2011 (CST)

== New or original gun names? ==

When a gun was originally sold under one name but has since changed, which name should be used? A good example is that right now there are [[LaRue Tactical OSR]] and [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] pages. They are the exact same rifle (OSR image is the standard rifle while OBR is tricked out, both versions are currently shown on the LaRue website as the OBR), LaRue was just forced to change the name due to a copyright problem. In this kind of case, which name should be used? I would have just checked other pages to see what the norm is, but my mind is currently drawing a blank to other guns that have changed their name but remained otherwise the same. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:52, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:Oops... I was the one who made the [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] page. I sincerely thought they were different guns, one a Battle Rifle and the other a Sniper Rifle. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== CSI ==

So I noticed that the [[CSI: Crime Scene Investigation]] page is really lacking. Anyone interested in helping me update it? I was thinking that if a few of us divided it up, each took a season or two, we could do it pretty quick. If anyone is interested give me a haller. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:11, 14 December 2011 (CST)

== Sortable Tables ==

Zackmann08 had mentioned about modifying our current table format for weapons and actor pages to a version where the boxes are sortable. A sortable template is already made and can be seen on [[Amitabh Bachchan]]'s page (I've now modified it to look a little more like our current table format). This definitely would be beneficial for the gun pages, but I noticed it takes a little bit longer to load and not sure if users will understand what the sortable icon is for. Would like to get thoughts from admins and users on this before a change is completely made. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:18, 16 December 2011 (CST)

:You make a good point about users not knowing what the icon is for. It is in use on wikipedia a lot these days so i think a lot of people are familiar with it and worst case scenario, if they're not then the table is just left in it's default sort. Just my 2 cents on the matter...--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:54, 16 December 2011 (CST)

::It doesn't work with rowspaned tables (like the ones on the [[Heckler & Koch MP5]] page) so it is a one or the other decision. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:28, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::another very good point, but how many rowspan tables are really in use? Other than the MP5 page i dont recall seing any others, though i havent really been looking for them. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:37, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::I've used them a few times, but generally only when there are a number of people from the same show/movie using the same weapon, as I think it looks better than having 10 or so entries with the same title and date in a row. If people decide against the rowspaned tables am happy to get rid of them though, was just my preference. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:50, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::::I feel ya. They are definitely preferable to listing the same thing over and over but if the choice is between that and sortable tables, personally I think the sortable ones are worth losing the rowspan. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:40, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::::I like the idea of sortable tables, especially for long pages like [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta 92F/FS]] or [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. However, I have noticed that currently there's a number of page formats depending on the respective contributor. I may not be so experienced with IMFDB like most of you, but it seems to me that it would make more sense to concentrate on developing a way to create a more uniform page format before we spend time on accepting more 'sexy' features. Pretty much like working on a house and spend time on the roof when the foundations have not been properly laid yet. Take care, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:29, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I totally agree with [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]]. I think what we really need is a single page that we can look at that has a template for everything. A section showing how to make a gun page. A section for actors, section for TV Shows, a section for Movies. That way we all know that this is the page everything should be based off of. This would be far better than saying "look at the M1911 page" because even pages like that have inconsistencies with formatting. The special page could even be put in the toolbar on the left side of the page under "toolbox". That would be amazingly helpful. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:57, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Bunni made a template for gun pages: [[Template:Gun]] That's how a newly created gun page should look like. Of course, the gun specifications sections can be expanded with other stuff, like barrel length (if a gun comes with 2 or more different barrels, like the [[Remington MSR]] for example), country of Origin, Designer and Manufacturer (if it is not in the title of the page, e.g. [[9A-91]]).
:And about the sortable tables: I think it is a bad idea. Why would anyone wanna sort a table on an actor page by the notation or character the actor was playing. Sorting by year is the best option IMHO, on both actor and gun pages. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:37, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:: I can see why you wouldn't want to sort by notation, and character would basically result in sorting by movie, but I can see how you would want to sort by what guns an actor has used instead of just what year. Also, one of the benefits of the sortable tables is that some of the older pages that are NOT sorted can be fixed by simply changing the class="wikitable" to class="sortable". As for the template, it does need to be expanded but we also need to find a way to make sure people know it's there and that all pages should follow it. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:17, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is proving to be a highly educational discussion for me as a rookie IMFDB user. Actually, this is the first time I learn about the template pages, and to be honest I fear I am not the only one. Instead of searching through the website, how about simply displaying links to the template pages everytime somebody clicks the button to create a new page? I am sure this will lead to increased uniformity and substantially lower the barrier for new people to get started on a page. Taking things one step further, how about the following? If somebody indicates to create a brand new page, a question box is displayed asking e.g. to make a choice between movie, actor, gun etc. so that after this choice the relating template pops up? Again, I am not sure if this is feasible but I am quite interested to hear your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:23, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::::I LIKE THIS IDEA!!! We definitely need to make a page that has all the templates listed. Right now its really hard to track down the templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:52, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Search for "<nowiki>Category:Templates</nowiki>" and it will show u all the templates. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:20, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::That helps but still that page needs to be publicized better. It also needs to be better explained. How are [[A-Team, The]] or [[MacGyver]] templates? When I create a new page, I find a good page and I copy the 'wiki code' from it into my new page and then just edit the text. My guess is this is what most people do and I feel like that is what we need. A page with dummy titles, names and guns for people to copy to a new page and work from. Thanks for letting me know about the Template page though. Didn't know that was there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::I think that Zackmann08 is hitting the nail on the head. Building on above comments, how about the following? On the left side of all pages there's the master menu table in blue ('CATEGORIES/SPECIAL/TOOLBOX'). In 'CATEGORIES' one can choose between Movies/Guns/Actors/etc so why not add something simple like 'Templates for New Pages'? If you click that, you'd see just 7 options for new pages; (1) Movie, (2) TV, (3) Anime, (4) Video, (5) Actor, (6) Gun and (7) Others (for whatever else can be 'templated'). Any choice would lead to one single template with dummy info and a short explanation on how to use it. This way an immediate and easy access to the templates will be realized, rather than (I am sorry to say) searching through several menu's in the Toolbox option and finding dozens of random templates. Interested to know what you guys think, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 05:21, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::::This sounds perfect to me! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:41, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:::::So, any volunteers willing and able to start on an addition to "Categories" with "Templates for New pages"? Am not too familiar with such revisions, but do we need authorization from anybody? --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 09:25, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Merry Christmas! ==

[[Image:IMFDB 2011 Christmas Card.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:22, 22 December 2011 (CST)

HAHAHA! I love it!

Merry Christmas guys :) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:05, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Brands Pages ==

I had an interesting idea that I was curious what others thought of. I was thinking it might be helpful to have a page that listed all the guns made by a certain company. For example, a "Smith & Wesson" page that would list all the guns that they have. To clarify, it would only list guns that are on this site. As per the rules this is NOT a gun encyclopedia and gun pages are only on this site if they appear in a movie/tv show/etc. I feel that it could be quite helpful in trying to identify weapons. We could divide the pages into Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns, Rifles, etc. just like a movie page and set it up as a table perhaps with some of the characteristics listed such as caliber(s), barrel length(s), etc. Would could even have a 'notes' column that list certain characteristics that help to identify it (for example for Taurus 92, "distinguished from the Beretta by its frame-mounted safety").

If this is an idea that people think might be useful, and if an admin will give me approval, I would love to create a trial page for one of the smaller companies. (I'd rather not do S&W to start with if it turns out people don't like it). I could perhaps start with Ruger which has a good number of guns. Please share your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:07, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:Sounds like an interesting plan. Thing is that quite often I see a gun and I have a general idea what brand it could be but then I find myself flipping through many gunpages in the IMFDB hoping that the gun I am looking for has been properly registered under that brand's name. In the case of e.g. Smith & Wesson (to name but a brand...) I can imagine such a page to be very useful. Will be following this discussion, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah it seems like it would be a good idea.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 10:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)

Trial page is up and running! I went ahead and did [[Ruger]]. I threw in a gallery as well. I'm not sure whether it's better have it right after the table or to put it at the bottom of the page or what. Please share all your thoughts on the page! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:23, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I think there is no need for the tables '''and''' galleries. Just simply put the caliber after the gun's name in the gallery. Like: "Ruger LCP - .380 ACP". Sorting gun's by type if definitely good, and seeing the thumbnail of the gun's will really speed up the IDing process (at least for me it will). The whole idea of these pages is great, considering that some guns (mostly Russians) are listed without the manufacturers' names. If more pages like this will spawn, we will need a "Gun Manufacturers" category, or something like that. I definitely support this idea, but the mods will decide. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I completely agree. The only thing is that some of these guns have 5+ calibers which could be cumbersome in the Gallery format... It would be great to have a 'Gun Manufacturers' category. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:25, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I also added the [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]] pages. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:44, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:::You could put them in table but have the far right column be a picture (put in <nowiki>[[Image:file_name.jpg|200px]]</nowiki>). Would take up more vertical room than a gallery, but you could then include calibre, magazine size (helpfull for identifying different 5/6 shot cylinder revolvers, and differences between double/single stack handguns for example), year introduced (which would also help with ruling stuff out for IDs in older films/TV) etc. I suppose a notes catagory could also ,be usefull, say if a gun is available in multiple finishes and stuff like that. I think these pages are a good idea, but I think having the specifications section is a bit irrelevent for a company, I would just tag it on the end of "About". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 23 December 2011 (CST)

This is what you mean, Commando?
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Introduced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Remington MSR]]|| .338 Lapua Magnum .338 Norma Magnum .300 Winchester Magnum 7.62x51mm NATO || 5, 7, 10|| Late 2000s||[[Image:RemingtonMSR.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[XM2010|Remington XM2010 ESR]]|| .300 Winchester Magnum || 5|| 2010||[[Image:XM2010.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}
You are right BTW, the year and capacity can help a lot in IDing. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:THAT LOOKS AWESOME!!! I am sold... That is how I am doing it. Next question, what do we want to do about variants? For example with the [[FN FAL]] do we also list the [[FN LAR]] on the [[FN Herstal]] page or just the [[FN FAL]] and figure if you are trying to identify the gun you will go to the FN FAL page and look at the variants? Same goes for the [[FN SCAR]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:28, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, that's what I mean. I think this is more usefull than just a gallery, and also it would be a place where sortable tables would definitely be useful, as you could sort the guns by name or chronologically. For a while I've been meaning to do a table of all the Colt AR-15 variants for my own use, but would be good for the Colt page. AR-15s are kind of a special case as their are so many variants that are very similar at first glance, so would include more columns (like upper/lower receiver type, barrel length and profile, bayonet lug, stuff like that) so someone who didn't know much about different variants could sort the columns and work out what a gun is. Regardless if it ends up going on the Colt page, I'm going to make it and put it on my user page to see how it turns out.
::As for different variants I would list them as they can look noticeably different, as is the case with the FAR and the LAR (these are pretty distinctly different weapons, more of a grey area would be listing different FAL variants such as the 50.00, 50.61 and 50.63). With guns like the SCAR, I think the split should just be between the H and the L, not the different barrel lengths. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:43, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:::Fair enough. The other idea that I had was to add an additional column called "variants". This would be great for weapons like the MP5 which all have the same base. Got the idea from this wikipedia page: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heckler_%26_Koch_products Heckler and Koch]. Glad to see so many people are taking a liking to this idea. I defiantly want to make it happen. Also, the AR-15 idea is a GREAT one. Perhaps a 1911 page as well. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:56, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::::You talking like one page for ALL 1911 variants, or seperate pages for each 1911 company? But then how would we handle, say, an SW1911? Would it be on the S&W page, or the 1911 page? Or both?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:I've continued working on the three trial pages ([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]]). I have noticed that A LOT of these guns are missing the most basic information (no specifications). If anyone is looking for a task, that would be a great one. I will do my part once I get these pages fully up. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)
Loving the idea, I am considering making a SIG-Sauer trial page with the basics only, then going back later and adding in lesser known stuff. But I want to see how these pages come along!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)

'''Please keep in mind that the mods will decide. DO NOT create additional gun manufacturer pages until an approval comes from them. It will be a waste of time if they delete them later.''' - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 02:26, 24 December 2011 (CST)
::That is why I said wanted to see what happened to these pages first.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:19, 24 December 2011 (CST)
:Another thing that would be great, is if anyone wants to go through the trial pages (([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]], [[Heckler & Koch]] & [[FN Herstal]]) and make sure that each weapon has specifications on its page that would be great. As i was creating these pages I noticed that most of the weapons were lacking the most basic specifications and info. (This could be yet another use for these pages!) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:08, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:::We had this discussion in the forum a long time ago, and the consensus was that it was NOT a useful means of classifying weapons on the site. Hence why I deleted the page originally. I'm still not sure it's all that useful. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 08:58, 24 December 2011 (CST)

::::I respectfully disagree. For someone like me who is a still a novice with guns it is exceptionally helpful when identifying weapons. This will be particularly true when it comes to things like the Smith and Wesson revolvers. It is often easy to identify the revolver is a Smith and Wesson but harder to know which model. If there is a single page that list all the Smith and Wesson revolvers it saves us from having to go through page by page. I just find it is so helpful to have one location where you can see a picture and the '''basics''' of the possible weapons. If it is helpful for some of us is it okay to leave these up? I will personally make sure that the pages are done in a professional looking manner and are not sloppily thrown together. I truly believe that (as long as they are done in the proper manner) they can make a fantastic addition to this already awesome website. (ok so that was a bit of kissing up but it's true, this site freaking rocks! :-) ) I'm also using this 'project' as an excuse to update many of these weapons so that their pages are in the correct format with specifications and descriptions.
::::I appreciate that I am still a new guy here and I '''really DO NOT''' want to be that guy who joins and says "nice thing you got going here but you should really change it because I know better." I DO NOT know better, please don't take this in that light. I am merely saying that there are a lot of people who would like to contribute but don't have the knowledge that some of you experts do. I think that this addition would help us novices contribute. I welcome your feedback. Oh, and a Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukah to everyone! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:21, 24 December 2011 (CST)

I propose changing 'introduced' to 'produced' and having it be a to and from date. Basically how long the weapon was in productions for. 1995-2005 rather than just 1995 for example. Any thoughts?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Would love to hear some feedback from the admins on this project. I would like to continue with it but don't want to do a bunch of work and then have the pages removed. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:13, 26 December 2011 (CST)

Looks good. I'm a mod here. I really like the Colt page. The S&W page is going to be an intensive piece of labor for you. I agree with bunni. We need a category for these new pages. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:29, 27 December 2011 (CST)

I'm a mod as well and I really like what I'm seeing. This will be a lot of work but I think it will be quite an invaluable resource once it is finished, as long as it is done well. Kudos. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 21:51, 6 January 2012 (CST)

== Battle Los Angeles ==

I have a question that I cant seem to get a good bead on, in the movie Battle Los Angeles Aaron Eckhart is seen using an m9 Beretta as his pistol,which I know is the main side arm used by US military forces. However, it was my understanding that the Marines used the 1911 as their sidearm and were the only branch to keep it as the main side arm. Eckhart's character in the movie is a grizzled old vet and had just put in for his 20 at the beginning of the movie meaning that he must have joined back in 1990-1991 and it would make sense to me why he would hold on to something like that. Either way please let me know what you got, thanks NavyBoyd
:For movie-specific discussions, please go to [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Talk:Battle:_Los_Angeles|the associated talk page]].--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 19:57, 23 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Page Templates ==

As part of the 'Gun Brands Pages' project (see above), I am also trying to make sure that each weapon included has specifications listed on its page. I am using the following as my template. If anyone thinks it is missing anything, please let me know. (Note that I made it a subheading with 3 '=' instead of the normal 2 '=' so that it wouldn't be its own category. normally it would just have 2.) I personally don't feel that Muzzle Velocity or effective range are necessary but I am up for input and critique. Just want to make sure I am doing this right! Merry Christmas everyone!
Oh and under FireModes I am including DA,SA,DAO,DA/SA if applicable. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:38, 25 December 2011 (CST)
 <-- start template-->
===Specifications===
(year - year)

* '''Type:''' Handgun/Revolver/Submachine Gun/Sniper Rifle/etc.

* '''Caliber(s):'''

* '''Weight:''' lb ( kg) (empty)

* '''Length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Barrel length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Capacity:'''

* '''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi-Auto/Full-Auto (950rounds/min)

-----
<--end template-->
:Another question that one of the veterans can help me out with. With guns that have Variations ([[Heckler & Koch P2000]] or [[Heckler & Koch USP]] for example), should each subcategory have its own specifications with the different length, capacity, etc. For example should the [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] have just one specifications section for the page or should there be one for the H&K P2000 and one for the H&K P2000SK. (This is the way I did the page but I want to make sure that this is ok. If I'm supposed to just do one section I will gladly correct it.) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 25 December 2011 (CST)

== I can't create a new thread in the forum ==

I logged into the forum and tried to create a new thread, but I get a message that says I don't have permission to access the page. I'm using a different username than I have used before, so is my account "awaiting activation?"--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 11:06, 1 January 2012 (CST)
:I had the same problem a few days ago. You want to talk to [[User:Bunni|Bunni]]. He'll fix it for ya. Happy new year. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:28, 1 January 2012 (CST)

== I think it's time to end the silencer/suppressor debate ==

I see this a lot, people correct other people "It's a suppressor, not a silencer. It doesn't silence the gun" and I think it really needs to stop. Way back in 1910, the first silencer was patented by Hiram Maxim as the '''SILENCER'''. Way back then, they weren't even that good compared to today's because the technology has been advanced on yet they were still called silencers. Them having the name silencer is just a name, after all there is a model of the Ithaca 37 called "Deer Slayer". It's a inanimate object which cannot slay deer. It can be used to kill deer however but the name doesn't fit it unless it operated on it's own to shoot deer. There are some people named Rose or Diamond but they aren't a flower or an expensive jewel. My point is with this is that it's just a name. Even today, the BATFE calls them silencers on the paper work and many companies that make them call them silencers. There is even a company called SilencerCO.

The reason why a lot of people call them suppressor is because in the 1970s the magazine, Soldier of Fortune, started calling them suppressors and giving the reason that I stated in the first sentence. Most people that I've seen that actually own them call them silencers and they have most likely done their research on them.

In conclusion, calling them silencers is not wrong and neither is calling them suppressors. You call them either and you're right. It's when you claim that silencer is the improper term. Silencer is just a name, it's the way it is.
--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:20, 9 January 2012 (CST)

: I personally prefer "suppressor", it's a nice, ''woody'', sort of word. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 13:51, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:: Yes, "silencer" is a name, but it's a misnomer. "Silencer" suggests absolutely no sound is produced when a shot is fired; "Suppressor" properly states that the sound will be muffled instead of completely silenced. It's the same as saying bullet-resistant instead of bulletproof. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 17:52, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::I don't see anyone complaining that their shotgun doesn't kill deer on it's own. IT'S A NAME and it's correct. .223 fires a .224 caliber bullet, are you going to complain about that too?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:37, 10 January 2012 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-01-10T03:49:02Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Back To Karkand Weapons */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

Talk:Main Page

2012-01-09T16:20:32Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* I think it's time to end the silencer/suppressor debate */ new section

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-27T03:05:41Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* My God */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T18:47:01Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Added a piece of info about the M1014 */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T18:46:42Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Added a piece of info about the M1014 */ new section

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game.

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T18:46:31Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Added a piece of info about the M1014 */ new section

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game.

Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T18:44:03Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Benelli M1014 */

{{workinprogress}}
[[Image:Bf3-pc-cover.jpg|thumb|300px|right|''Battlefield 3'' (2011)]]

'''''Battlefield 3''''' (also known as '''''BF3''''') is the twelfth installment of the ''[[Battlefield|Battlefield series]]'', and direct sequel to ''[[Battlefield 2]]''. The game was developed by the Swedish company Digital Illusions Creative Entertainment (DICE) and published by Electronic Arts in 2011 for the PC, PS3 and Xbox 360. The game is powered by the proprietary Frostbite 2 engine, a further development of the engine used in the ''Bad Company'' games.

'''The following weapons appear in the video game ''Battlefield 3'':'''
__TOC__ 

= Handguns =

== Beretta 92SB ==

The [[Beretta 92SB]], modified to resemble the [[Beretta 93R|93R]], can be unlocked as a sidearm in Co-Op requiring a 315,000 Co-Op Score. The weapon has been fitted with the 93R's muzzle brake and foregrip, and uses 20 round magazines.

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92SB - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Bf3_93r_slide_locked.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character stops to admire his custom weapon.]]

== Beretta M9 ==

In the beginning of the single-player mission "Semper Fidelis" and "The Great Destroyer", Blackburn acquires a [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta M9]]. It can also be seen holstered on some US Marine throughout the single-player campaign. In multiplayer it is the starting handgun for US forces. Another note of interest is that unlike in [[Battlefield: Bad Company 2]] and [[Medal of Honor (2010)|Medal of Honor]]'s multiplayer, the M9's magazine is 15 rounds + 1 in the chamber like in reality. In multiplayer, Players can unlock additional M9's outfitted with a Tactical Light and a Sound Suppressor separately as they level (rank) up.

[[Image:M9-pistolet.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta M9 - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:BF3-M9-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn holds an M9 at the start of the introductory mission "Semper Fidelis." This one of only two times in the entire campaign the player character has a sidearm.]]
[[File:BF3-M9-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A US Marine holds a M9 in multiplayer.]]
[[File:BF3-M9-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A M9 being reloaded in multiplayer.]]
[[File:BF3-M9-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Marine aims at a suspicious looking M1161 "Growler" ITV. Note that the sights are correct for a M9.]]
[[File:Bf3_M9_suppressed.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M9 with a suppressor. Different classes of weapon use different suppressor models, but those models are shared among the weapons of that class. The only exceptions to this are the G3A3 and SCAR-H CQC, which use the same model as the sniper rifles because of their caliber.]]

== Colt 1873 ==
The [[Single Action Army|Colt 1873]], more commonly known as the Single Action Army, is featured on the Dog Tag the player is rewarded with when they get the ''Handgun Medal'', for getting the ''Handgun Ribbon'' 50 times. A ''Handgun Ribbon'' is awarded when the player kills four enemies with handguns in a game, and can be awarded multiple times in a game.
[[Image:ColtSingleActionArmy.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 5.5" barrel known as the "Artillery" model. The most common of the SAA revolvers as it is just the right length. - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:BF3SAA.jpg|thumb|none|300px|The Western-themed ''Handgun Ribbon'' Dog Tag.]]

== Glock 17 ==

The [[Glock#Glock 17|Glock 17]] is shown in an official screenshot for the Battlelog. Called "G17C", although it is modeled after a standard Glock 17 as there are no compensator cuts on the top of the slide. It comes standard with a laser sight, while a variant that has both a laser sight and a suppressor is available as a later unlock. It is the only handgun that lets you equip two attachments at a time. Also, all of the US Assault kit soldiers have a G17 in a chest holster in addition to whatever their selected sidearm is, and this G17 does not have a laser.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:BF3-Glock-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A dead PLR soldier with a Glock 17 at his side.]]

[[File:Rrt877 g17c.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Glock 17 in multiplayer.]]
[[File:Rrt877 g17c reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Glock 17 in multiplayer reloading.]]

== Glock 18 ==

The [[Glock 18]] appears as the "G18". It has an extended magazine base that gives it a 19 round capacity. Interestingly enough in the beta, the suppressed Glock 18 is unlocked before the standard unsupressed variant (though this has been fixed in the regular game and the unsuppressed version is unlocked at Rank 30 with the suppressed variant unlocked at 41). Note that the Battlelog picture (seen below) lacks a fire selector, but is actually different than that G17's picture. This is most likely because it is from an early build of the game, as it appears correctly in-game.

[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Glock 18C (3rd Generation) - 9x19mm. The model in-game is not a "C" model.]]
[[Image:BF3BLG18.jpg|thumb|none|350px|G18 in-game render.]]

== MEU(SOC) Pistol==

The USMC variant of the [[M1911]], the [[M1911_pistol_series#M45_.2F_MEU.28SOC.29|M-45]], can be used if the player is a Battlefield Veteran or a member of the EA Gun Club. It is a standard M1911A1 with a three-hole trigger, a Springfield slide, commander-style hammer, beavertail grip safety, Pachmayr rubber grips, and uses 8 round magazines. It comes with additional variants that incorporate a Tactical Flashlight or Sound Suppressor. A variant with both aforementioned attachments is available only to DICE employees.

[[File:Silver MEU.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MEU(SOC) Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:BF3-MEU(SOC)-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A player character in multiplayer holds a MEU(SOC) pistol.]]
[[Image:BF3-MEU(SOC)-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the MEU(SOC) pistol in multiplayer, the player character dumps the empty magazine...]]
[[Image:BF3-MEU(SOC)-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and lines up a fresh one (that's actually loaded) with the magazine well. Note that the markings and slanted serrations show it is a Springfield made slide.]]
[[Image:BF3-MEU(SOC)-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A player character aims down the tritium sights of his MEU(SOC) pistol.]]
[[Image:BF3-MEU(SOC)-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A player character vaults over a fence with his MEU(SOC) pistol, appreciative of the fact that he actually has legs in this game.]]

== MP-412 REX ==

The [[MP-412 REX|MP-412]] revolver returns from ''Bad Company'' and ''Bad Company 2'' as an unlockable sidearm that can only be unlocked by achieving a 63000 Co-Op Score. Unlike in Bad Company 2, the top break cartridge ejector is seen in full effect actually ejecting spent rounds as opposed to "flicking" them out. It is considerably different by having a slightly faster rate of fire and being more effective at close range compared to it's larger .44 cousin.

[[Image:Mp-412-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP-412 REX - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:BF3 REX.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The player character in multiplayer holds an MP-412 REX.]]
[[image:Bf3_MP412_reload_1.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Pictured: the automatic extractor in action. Not pictured: Antigravity field generator.]]
[[image:Bf3_MP412_reload_2.jpg|600px|thumb|none|]]
[[image:Bf3_MP412_reload_3.jpg|600px|thumb|none|]]

== MP-443 Grach ==

The [[Yarygin_PYa#MP-443_Grach|MP-443]] returns from ''Bad Company 2'' and is the Russian faction's sidearm. In Multiplayer the player unlocks the Tactical Light and Sound Suppressor as they level up instead of by gaining kills with the weapon.

[[Image:MP433Grach.jpg|none|thumb|400px|MP-443 Grach - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:BF3-MP443-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vladimir uses his MP-443 as one of Solomon's men demonstrates how not to steal a car stereo.]]
[[Image:BF3-MP443-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds his MP-443 on Blackburn as he tries to blame everything on a fire extinguisher.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 grach 16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 grach reload 16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Taurus Model 44 ==

The [[Taurus Model 44]] appears as an unlockable sidearm, and can be fitted with a scope. Appears as ".44 Magnum", one of the few weapons in game that does not go by its proper name. In campaign mode, the antagonist Solomon uses one as his personal sidearm. In multiplayer, a variant with a PK-A scope is fittingly unlocked at Rank 44.

[[Image:Taurus 44.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Taurus Model 44 with 6" barrel - .44 Magnum]]
[[Image:BF3-Taurus44-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Solomon aims his Taurus Model 44 at Blackburn during the introductory level. Visible in the full-sized image is what appears to be an empty speedloader hovering in mid-air behind the weapon, just above Solomon's wrist.]]
[[Image:BF3-Taurus44-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn soon finds himself getting a closer look at the barrel.]]
[[Image:BF3-Taurus44-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Prior to the start of "Uprising," Solomon is seen aiming his Taurus at an injured Marine.]]

= Submachine Guns =

Unlike previous games in the series, SMGs are all-kit unlockables, and not strictly limited to an Engineer/Spec Ops-type class.

== Heckler & Koch MP7A1 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP7|H&K MP7A1]] can be unlocked and used by any kit. It can use either a 20- or 40-round magazine. It must be unlocked in the Co-Op mode, requiring 189,000 Score.

[[Image:MP7 40rdmag.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 with Zeiss Z-Point red dot sight and 40-round magazine - 4.6x30mm]]
[[Image:BF3-MP7-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds an MP7A1 with suppressor, EOTech sight and 40-round extended magazine during the mission "Night Shift."]]
[[Image:BF3-MP7-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|Blackburn loads a new 40-round magazine into his MP7A1 as he is menaced by a series of incomprehensible graffiti tags.]]
[[Image:BF3-MP7-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The 20-round magazine for the MP7A1 frequently glitches and fails to appear during the campaign; here in "The Great Destroyer" Blackburn reloads one with a large flash suppressor, IRNV scope and laser pointer...]]
[[Image:BF3-MP7-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...whereas earlier he just told his vanilla one to imagine it was full of bullets that were ''this'' big.]]

== Heckler & Koch UMP45 ==

A detailed pick-up icon for the [[Heckler & Koch UMP#Heckler & Koch UMP|Heckler & Koch UMP45]] can be seen in GameSpot's recently released Tokyo Game Show gameplay footage. The game correctly depicts the UMP's single / 2 round burst / full auto firing modes.

[[Image:UMP_45.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch UMP45 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:BF3-UMP-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn reloads his UMP during "The Great Destroyer," wondering why he didn't have it the first time he went through this section. Note the caution on the side of the weapon to read the owner's manual; while this makes some sense on this level where the UMPs are seen in the hands of terrorists, the warning is still present even in "Operation Guillotine" when the UMPs are used by the US military; military UMPs should not have it.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 ump.jpg|thumb|none|601px|UMP in Multiplayer.]]

== FN P90 TR ==

An [[FN P90#P90 TR|FN P90 TR (Triple Rail)]] can be seen in E3 coverage from IGN. It can be used by any kit once unlocked.

[[Image:FN_P90_Triple_Rail_(TR).jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|FN P90TR - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:BF3-P90-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds a P90TR during the mission "Comrades."]]

== PP-19 Bizon ==

The [[Izhmash PP-19 Bizon|PP-19 Bizon]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by any kit.

[[Image:Bizon1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Early PP-19 Bizon - 9x18mm Makarov. The version in game is this early model, but is chambered in 9x19mm Parabellum.]]
[[Image:BF3-PP19-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PP-19 Bizon on the customise menu.]]

== PP-2000 ==

The [[PP-2000]] returns from ''Bad Company 2'', feeling much more realistic this time around, with a more believable firing rate and packing a decent punch per shot, as opposed to the previous game, in which its firing rate was more akin to a Minigun and its power-per-shot around the area of lightly tossing a handful of pebbles at your opponent's face. Comes standard with a 20 round mag, and a 40 round extended mag can be unlocked.

[[Image:Pp-2000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|PP-2000 with red dot sight - 9x19mm]]
[[File:BF3-PP2000-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds his PP-2000 after completing a HALO jump into Northern Iran at the start of the mission "Kaffarov."]]

= Shotguns =

For the first time in a main ''Battlefield'' series game (excluding spinoffs like ''[[Battlefield Play4Free]]''), shotguns can be iron-sighted, and like the SMGs, can be used in every kit. In addition, DICE made it so that their shotguns have considerable range, unlike most videogames where you have to see the whites of the enemies' eyes for shotguns to be effective.

== SWD / Cobray Street Sweeper ==

The [[Armsel_Striker_and_variants#SWD.2FCobray_Street_Sweeper|SWD / Cobray Street Sweeper]] is included, identifiable by the winding key on the front of the drum magazine and lack of a rear-mounted drum advance lever. The weapon is referred to as the "DAO-12" in material advertising the game's pre-order rewards, as it was in [[Battlefield 2]]; this stands for "double action only, 12 gauge" and is a ''description'' of the weapon rather than a correct name for it. The name was kept as an homage to Battlefield 2. The weapon has an incorrect capacity of 8-rounds by default, but the correct 12 if the extended magazine attachment is used. This is most likely for balance, so players can't use a semi-auto, 12 round shotgun AND attachments on top of that.

[[Image:CobrayStreetSweeper.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SWD / Cobray Street Sweeper with short barrel and top folding stock - 12 gauge. Visible is the Cobray logo on the side, no visible drum advance lever like on the Striker and the recognizable 'key' in the front of the drum for winding up the rotary cylinder.]]
[[File:BF3-Streetsweeper-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds a Street Sweeper fitted with a Kobra reflex sight at the start of the mission "Kaffarov."]]

== Benelli M1014 ==

The [[Benelli M4 Super 90|Benelli M1014]] features semi-automatic firing and its tactical stock fully extended during gameplay. Magazine capacities available are either the civilian legal 4+1, or the full-length 6+1 (Indicating the use of 3-inch magnum rounds. The full-length tube normally holds seven 2.75-inch rounds). When reloading from empty, the player character loads a round into the chamber first, then fills the tube, and using the extended option will change the model's magazine tube accordingly, just like the 870 MCS. It's unrealistically inaccurate despite having an Cylinder Bore.

[[Image:M4Super90.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Benelli M4 Super 90 with 7-shot tube - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3-M1014-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds an M1014 during the mission "Comrades."]]

[[Image:Rrt877 m1014.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M1014 in MP.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 m1014 reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M1014 in MP, reloading.]]

== M26 MASS ==

The [[M26 MASS]] can be used only in the Assault kit in the "Gadget 1" slot. It may be used either as a standalone weapon, or mounted on any of the assault rifles if said rifle is equipped with the underslung rail. It can fire buckshot, flechettes, FRAG-12 rounds, or slugs, same as the other shotguns. Due to a bug on the Xbox 360, the AEK-971 cannot mount the M26 MASS despite having an underslung rail.

[[Image:XM26 2 highRes.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M26 MASS - 12 gauge, mounted on [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1 carbine]] with C-More red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:XM26.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Standalone version of M26 MASS - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3 Mass.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M26 standalone.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 mass mounted.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MASS mounted on a M16A3 in MP.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 mass mounted reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MASS mounted on a M16A3 in MP, reloading.]]

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

The [[Pancor Jackhammer]], called the "MK3A1," is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by any kit. It can be safely assumed it will not emulate the real weapon's problems with failing to cycle.

[[Image:Jackhammer.jpg‎|400px|thumb|none|Pancor Jackhammer - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3-Jackhammer-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jackhammer on the customisation screen.]]

== Remington 870 MCS ==

The [[Remington 870|Remington 870 MCS]] appears as the "870MCS". The player pumps the shotgun very quickly, which makes it seem almost semi-automatic in-game, like a pump action combat shotgun should be. Magazine capacities are either the standard 4+1, or the extended 6+1. As with the M1014, when reloading from empty the player character loads a round into the chamber first, then fills the tube, and using the extended option will change the model's magazine tube

[[Image:Remington_870MCS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 MCS - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3-MCS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds an 870 MCS with a tactical light during the mission "Uprising."]]
[[Image:BF3-MCS-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of Blackburn's starting weapons in "Operation Guillotine" is this Remington 870 MCS with a laser aiming module. Precisely what this is for when he has his Big Magic White Circle for aiming with is unclear.]]
[[File:Bf3_870MCS_Frag.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Firing a 12 gauge fragmentation round from the 870. It looks impressive and can suppress enemies well, but it does about as much damage as a firecracker without a direct hit.]]
[[File:BF3_chamberload_870mcs_ext_mag.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chamberloading an 870 that has an extended magazine.]]

== Saiga-12K ==

The [[Izhmash Saiga series shotgun|Saiga-12K]] returns from ''Battlefield 2'' and is the second semi-auto shotgun unlocked. Magazine capacities are either the standard 5+1, or an extended 8+1.

[[Image:Saiga 12k-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Saiga-12K - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3-Saiga-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn holds a rather beat-up camoflaged Saiga 12K during the mission "Uprising."]]
[[Image:BF3-Saiga-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The mission "Kaffarov" can be a little on the strange side at times; here Dmitri Mayakovsky holds a Saiga 12K fitted with a laser aiming module and PK-AS optic, watching in bemusement as shooting the windshield of a car makes two men who had clipped inside it dramatically leap through the roof. For a finishing touch, the car exploded immediately afterwards.]]
[[Image:BF3-Saiga-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wary of any other weirdness, Dmitri reloads his Saiga 12K.]]

== USAS-12 ==

The [[USAS-12]] is the only full-auto shotgun in-game. The magazine capacity is incorrectly 6+1 by standard or the correct 10+1 with the extended magazines equipped, most likely for balance, same as the Striker. When optics are attached it becomes a WM-12, an American semi-auto clone of the USAS-12, but with a rail instead of the carry handle. Like all shotguns, it can utilise standard Buckshot, Slugs, Flechettes and explosive FRAG-12 rounds as well as fit a variety of accessories and attachments.

[[Image:USAS12.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daewoo USAS-12 with 10-round magazine - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3-USAS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky reloads his USAS-12, which, according to the trademarks, was made by "Baewdo Brecision" of Korea.]]

= Assault Rifles & Battle Rifles =

== A-91 ==

The [[A-91]] appears as part of the incredibly vague "Compact Assault Rifle" classification, and thus is used by the 'Engineer' kit. It does not have its 40mm grenade launcher. It is the successor to the 9A-91 from ''Bad Company 2'', albeit firing the 5.56mm NATO round instead of the 9A-91's 9x39mm one.

[[Image:A91.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A-91 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-A91-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky looks at fellow GRU agent Vladimir holding an A-91 as they go to work at the start of "Comrades."]]

[[Image:Rrt877 a-91.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A-91 in MP.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 a-91 reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A-91 in MP reloading.]]

== AEK-971 ==

The [[AEK-971]] is an unlock for the Assault kit. If the M320 is selected and mounted on the weapon, it will instead be a GP-30, though if set to standalone, will still be an M320. It cannot mount the M26 MASS due to a bug on the Xbox 360 version.

[[Image:aek971_545.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AEK-971 (Current Model) with folding stock - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-AEK-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds an AEK-971 near the start of the mission "Uprising."]]
[[Image:BF3 AEK971.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AEK-971 in Battlefield 3 with Kobra Red dot sight and Foregrip attatched. Note that because of a glitch, both the inderect flightpath crosshair and the standard crosshair appear when switching rapidly between the grenade launcher and primary weapon. Switching to secondary weapon and back again fixes this issue.]]

[[Image:Rrt877_aek2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AEK-917 in MP.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 aek2 reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AEK-917 in MP, reloading.]]

== AK-74M ==

The [[AK-74#AK-74|AK-74M]] has been seen in gameplay trailers. It is the standard assault rifle used by the Russian 'Assault' kit. If the M320 is selected and mounted on the weapon, it will instead be a GP-30, though if set to standalone, will still be an M320.

[[Image:AK-74M.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-74M - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-AK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn holds an AK-74M equipped with a PSO-1 scope during "Operation Swordbreaker." Weapons on the ground do not show their attachments or have text signifying what they have attached, meaning occasionally picking up a boring-looking vanilla weapon will result in the player character producing Excalibur as here.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 ak74m.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 ak74m reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== AKS-74U ==

The [[AK-74#AKS-74U|AKS-74U]] has been seen in gameplay trailers. In multiplayer, the AKS-74U, being a carbine, is used by the 'Engineer' kit, and is the starting weapon for Russian Engineers.

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U - 5.45x39mm.]]
[[Image:BF3-AKS-74U-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn wrestles with one of Solomon's men during the introductory mission "Semper Fidelis." On the Xbox 360 version, this terrorist is instead armed with a UMP45, but still gives Blackburn an AKS-74U when he dies.]]
[[Image:BF3-AKS-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|At the start of the mission "Uprising," Blackburn relieves a PLR soldier of this AKS-74U with a Kobra reflex sight, suppressor and tactical light.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 aks74u.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 aks74u reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aks74u in multiplayer, note the milled receiver.]]

== AN-94 ==

The [[AN-94]] returns from the Bad Company series. The AN-94's dual-rate full-auto mode has been correctly featured in Battlefield 3. When set to burst, the weapon fires an 1800RPM 2-round burst, and when set to full auto, it fires the first two shots at 1800RPM, while the rest are fired at 600RPM. If the M320 is selected and mounted on the weapon, it will instead be a GP-30, though if set to standalone, will still be an M320. The AN-94 is unique in that it starts in 2-round burst by default, in contrast to every other weapon in BF3, which all use the most aggressive fire mode available by default, usually full auto. Before a patch, the weapon lacked the semi-automatic mode found on the real weapon, instead featuring only the 2-burst and full-auto modes. One detail that should be noted is that in the single-player campaign, the 2 round burst is shown to incorrectly fire at the 600 rpm as opposed to the correct 1800 rpm, though this may be fixed as the game still contains a handful of bugs.

[[Image:Russian AN-94 Abakan Nikonov 5.45x39mm assault rifle 3.jpg|thumb|400px|none|AN-94 Abakan Nikonov - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-AN94-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds an AN-94 equipped with a PKS-07 long-range scope as he looks over an airdropped Russian D-30 122mm howitzer during the mission "Rock and a Hard Place."]]

== AS Val ==

The [[AS Val]] appears as an all kit weapon, most likely due to its small size and unique integrated suppressor, making it too specialized for any specific kit.

[[Image:As val1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AS Val - 9x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-ASVal-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds his starting weapon, an AS Val assault rifle with a Kobra reflex sight, during the mission "Comrades."]]
[[Image:BF3-ASVal-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Kiril holds his AS Val near the end of "Comrades."]]

== Colt M4/M4A1 ==

The [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1 Carbine]] is commonly seen in gameplay footage which is also in the hands of the main character. During the alpha stages footage, the in-game M4A1 can be seen fitted with iron sights, EOTech 551 Holographic sight, Trijicon TA01NSN 4x32 ACOG scope, Surefire Universal WeaponLight, AN/PEQ-2 laser designator, Magpul Ranger Plate, and a SOPMOD stock. Two different "reload-from-empty" animations have been seen. The "Fault Line" trailers had the player rack the charging handle, while in the more recent Operation Metro trailer, and the rest since then, the player uses the bolt release. It has been confirmed that both the M4A1 (full-auto) and M4 (3-round burst) will be available for use within the game. The standard M4/M4A1 has a KAC RIS handguard, Crane SOPMOD stock, Hogue pistol grip, M16A1 flash hider, and Magpul Ranger Plates. In multiplayer, the M4A1, being a carbine, is used by the 'Engineer' kit, and is the starting weapon for US Engineers.

[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M4A1 Carbine - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:BF3-M4-1.jpg‎|602px|thumb|none|Blackburn holds an M4A1 during "Operation Swordbreaker."]]
[[Image:BF3-M4-2.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Blackburn reloads his M4A1. "For law enforcement / military use" is printed on the side of the EOTech optic. Note also the fire selector on semi-auto.]]
[[Image:BF3-M4-3.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Reloading with the rifle in shadow reveals a snake-like design engraved on the mag well; this is present in ''[[Medal of Honor (2010)|Medal of Honor]]'', though as a dark shape that shows up in light rather than a silvery etching that only shows up in the dark. Also note that the semi-auto postion reads "Fire", meaning it was modeled on a civilian M4 variant, which also explains why the selector is in this position.]]

== Colt M16A3/M16A4 ==

The [[M16 rifle series#M16A4 Rifle|M16A4 rifle]] was one of the first weapons to be shown in early gameplay footage, but was lacking rear iron sights and even optical sights because of the alpha stage development; these were added later on. Some later footage showed the M16 with the gas block missing when mounting sights, but this too was corrected in the final release. Both the M16A3 (full-auto, incorrectly shown with a flat-top upper receiver) and M16A4 (3-round burst) are available for use within the game. They have [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]] flash hiders, KAC RIS handguards with a rail cover on the right side rail, a Hogue pistol grip, Magpul loops on the magazines, and a cloth sleeve wrapped around the stock. It is the standard assault rifle used by the US 'Assault' kit.

[[Image:M16A4withANPEQ&ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A4 MWS (Modular Weapon System) with RAS rails installed, AN/PEQ-2 IR designator, RIS foregrip, and Trijicon 4x32 ACOG scope - 5.56x45mm. This is the USMC style setup.]]
[[Image:BF3-M16-1.jpg|601px|thumb|none|Blackburn holds his M16A3 during Operation Swordbreaker.]]
[[Image:BF3-M16-2.jpg|600px|thumb|none|A Marine reloads his M16A3 with a mounted Trijicon ACOG scope in multiplayer. Note that there are actually bullets in the magazine, a relatively rare sight in a modern shooter. But unfortunately, like in most modern shooters, the fire selector is always set to semi-auto.]]

== DIO KH2002 Sama ==

The Xbox 360 Operation Guillotine gameplay trailer shows a PLR militant using the [[DIO KH2002|DIO KH2002 Sama]] assault rifle. The weapon is a bullpup conversion of the DIO S-5.56 assault rifle, which is a direct copy of the [[M16 rifle series#Norinco Model 311|Norinco CQ]] assault rifle. The KH2002 was put into service in 2004 as a replacement for the Iranian Military's obsolete G3A3. The model featured in the game is the improved Sama model introduced in 2009, as noted by the diagonal cuts on the receiver as opposed to horizontal, side mounted rails and the combination of long carry handle and barrel mounted front sight. The improved foregrip of the Sama model only appears if the Foregrip attachment is used in multiplayer

In campaign mode, the weapon is often found in the hands of Iranian Army soldiers after the PLR's hostile takeover. It fires in single shot and 3-round burst firing modes, and uses Russian optics. It can be unlocked for multiplayer use via co-op mode.

[[File:Kh2002 2009 improved.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Iranian Defense Industries Organization (DIO) KH2002, improved 2009 model - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-KH2002-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn holds a KH2002 during the mission "Uprising" as he discovers the exit.]]
[[File:BF3-KH2002-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn reloads his KH2002, showing that the Khaybar variant used in the game is the 2009 model.]]

== FAMAS Surbaissé ==

A [[FAMAS|FAMAS Surbaissé]] (FAMAS Low Profile) is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by the Assault kit. The weapon is shown with the large G1 / G2 trigger guard rather than the twin grips this version seems to use.

[[Image:FAMASFELIN2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAS Surbaissé - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-FAMAS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS Surbaissé on the customisation screen.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 famas3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 famas3 reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== FN F2000 Tactical ==

The [[FN F2000]] returns from the Bad Company series, and has much more realistic statistics, most notably that it doesn't have a fire rate resembling a minigun. Due to its lack of an underslung rail, an M320 or M26 MASS will always be carried as a standalone if the F2000 is equipped. The F2000 can mount a bipod and foregrip like the other assault rifles.

[[Image:FN_F2000_tactical.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN F2000 Tactical with folding vertical foregrip - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-F2000-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Dmitri Mayakovsky reloads an F2000 with EOTech reflex sight during the mission "Comrades."]]

== FN Mk 16 Mod 0 (SCAR-L)==

After getting 100 kills with a weapon, the player is awarded with a dogtag to display their accomplishment. There appears to have been an oversight in the making of the SCAR-H dogtag, as it shows a [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-L|SCAR]] with what is very clearly a 5.56 STANAG magazine.

[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|400px|none|Third Generation FN SCAR-L - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3_SCAR_L_dogtag.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

== FN Mk 17 Mod 0 (SCAR-H CQC) ==

The First Generation FN Mk 17 Mod 0, or [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-H|SCAR-H CQC]], can be seen in the new Caspian Border gameplay trailer. In multiplayer, the SCAR-H is used by the 'Engineer' kit. A modelling mistakes shows the fire selector switch set on semi-auto as the weapon itself fires on full-auto by default.

[[Image:FN_SCAR_-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|First Gen Fabrique Nationale SCAR-H with M68 Aimpoint scope and Grippod foregrip - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-SCAR-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn reloads his SCAR-H at the start of "Operation Guillotine." Note that even though the weapon fires on full-auto, the fire selector switch is set on semi-auto.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 mk17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 mk17 reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Heckler & Koch G36 ("MG36") ==

The [[Heckler & Koch G36]], mislabelled as "MG36" (a weapon with a production run of around 100 units) is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by the Support kit. The weapon is based on the light support weapon configuration of the G36, with a bipod handguard and C-Mag fitted. It uses a G36C carry handle instead of the standard G36 carry handle, for two purposes: To eliminate any advantage players may have had the G36's proprietary optics been in place, and to allow the use of other unlockable optics.

[[Image:G36 CMag.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Configuration typically called "MG36;" actually just a standard G36 with a bipod handguard and C-Mag - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-MG36-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"MG36" on the customise menu.]]

== Heckler & Koch G36C ==

A [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|Heckler & Koch G36C]] is briefly seen being used by one of the players in PAX coverage from NVIDIA. It can fire, semi, auto, or two-round burst. In multiplayer, the G36C, being a carbine, is used by the 'Engineer' kit.

[[Image:G36CwForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36C with vertical foregrip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-G36-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds a G36C he took from a French police officer during the mission "Comrades." Note that while the fire selector is in the correct position for fully automatic fire, the white position indicator is pointing to "safe."]]

== Heckler & Koch G3A3 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch G3#Heckler & Koch G3|G3A3]] is available in both single and multiplayer. It is an actual H&K G3A3, and not an Iranian clone. It has a wide handguard, and the fire selector markings are S-E-F. The Iranian-manufactured version differs in that it utilizes a slimline handguard and has Farsi writing on the receiver. It can be unlocked for use in multiplayer by gaining the required Co-Op score.

[[File:G3a3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G3A3 with wide handguard - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-G3-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|Blackburn holds a G3A3 with ACOG scope during the mission "Operation Swordbreaker."]]
[[File:BF3-G3A3-Pickup.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The detailed pick-up icon for the G3A3.]]

== Heckler & Koch HK416 ==

The [[HK416]] returns from Bad Company and Bad Company 2 having a 10.4" barrel and OD furniture. It is the first unlock for the Assault kit and can have an M320 (which replaces the kit's Medkit) mounted as long as a grip or bipod are not. It once again appears as the "M416," seemingly just because that's what it was called in the ''Bad Company'' games since it is no longer shown as a standardised US military weapon in singleplayer. At release, it featured semi-auto, burst, and full-auto modes, something that isn't typically possible with AR-15 type rifles and derivatives. A patch later removed the burst mode.

[[Image:Heckler and Koch 416.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416 with 10 inch barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:BF3-HK416-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn runs with his HK416 with M320 grenade launcher, straight into a most unpleasant surprise.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 hk416.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Heckler & Koch HK53 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch HK33|HK53]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and, as a carbine, can be used by the Engineer kit.

[[Image:H&KHK53-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK53 - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:BF3-HK53-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|HK53 on the customisation screen.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 hk53.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 hk53 reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== L85A2 ==

The [[Enfield L85 rifle series|L85A2]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by the Assault kit.

[[Image:L85A2Iron.jpg|thumb|none|400px|L85A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-L85-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|L85A2 on the customisation screen.]]

== Magpul PDR ==

The [[Magpul PDR]] appears as an all kit weapon. For unknown reasons, it appears as the "PDW-R". Uses either 20 or 30 round polymer magazines, with 20 being the default option.

[[File:MagpulPDR.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Magpul PDR - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-PDR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky reloads his PDR as he ponders the wisdom of Vladimir's "walking into a fire" plan.]]

== QBZ-95B ==

The [[Norinco QB rifle series|QBZ-95B]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and, as a carbine, can be used by the Engineer kit.

[[Image:Qbz-95carb s.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Norinco QBZ-95B - 5.8x42mm]]
[[Image:BF3-QBZ95B-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|QBZ-95B on the customise menu.]]

== SIG SG 553 ==

The [[SIG SG 550|SG 553]] has been confirmed by DICE in the official Battlefield Blog. In multiplayer, being a carbine, is used by the 'Engineer' kit. It can only be unlocked in Co-Op by achieving a score of 378,000.

[[File:SIG SG 553-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG SG 553 with railed handguard, vertical foregrip, flashlight, ACOG and 20-round factory magazine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-SG553-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds a SIG SG 553 during the mission "Comrades" as he fights his way through a French police cordon.]]

= Machine Guns =

== Heckler & Koch M27 IAR ==

The [[Heckler & Koch HK rifle series#Heckler & Koch M27 IAR|Heckler & Koch M27 IAR]] is the starting weapon for the US support class, and uses a 45-round extended magazine. It is shown with a 4-vent handguard, but the correct extended barrel for the version is shown, the handguard simply covering less of it.

[[Image:H&K M27 IAR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch M27 IAR - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-IAR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds an M27 IAR equipped with a Trijicon RX01 reflex sight and tactical light in the mission "Kaffarov."]]

[[Image:Rrt877 iar.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== M240B ==

The [[FN MAG#M240 Machine Gun|M240B]] appears in the hands of some US Marines, and in the hands of the player character, fitted with an EOTech Holographic Weapon Sight (HWS). The trailer shows the weapon as having a deployable bipod which can be used to increase accuracy during prolonged firing, at the cost of player mobility.

[[Image:M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240B with newer style lower handguard (designed to attach RIS rails via hex nut) - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:BF3-M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of Blackburn's fellow Marines, Montes, holds his M240B fitted with an M145 Machine Gun Optic.]]
[[File:BF3 M240B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character in multiplayer holds an M240B with M145 Machine Gun Optic.]]

== M249E3 Para SAW / Mk 46 Mod 0 Hybrid ==

An [[FN Minimi#M249-E1 / M249-E2 / M249 Paratrooper SAW|M249E3 Para SAW]] is featured in the game. It has a STANAG magazine well, identifying it as an M249 rather than a Mark 46, but the fixed buttstock and rail system are features of the Mk 46 Mod 0. This configuration is typical of Airsoft "Mk 46" guns which have Mk 46 features but retain their STANAG wells.

[[Image:M249ParaWAmmo.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|FN M249 Para - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mk46.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Mk 46 Mod 0 light machine gun - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M249-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds the hybrid SAW near the end of Operation Swordbreaker. Note the STANAG magazine well visible under the belt.]]
[[Image:BF3-SAW-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn sets up the bipod of his SAW.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 m249.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

== M60E4 ==

The [[M60E4]] is the last MG to be unlocked in the Support kit. Extended magazines gifts the weapon with a massive 200 round box and this is visually shown on the weapon when attached.

[[Image:M60E4-mk43.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M60E4 Mk.43 with picatinny rails, RIS foregrip, and ammo belt - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-M60-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds an M60E4 with M145 Machine Gun Optic as Kaffarov's bodyguards have the brilliant idea of firing an RPG-7 indoors.]]

== QBB-95 ==

The [[Norinco QB rifle series|QBB-95]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by the Support kit. Uses 75 round drums by default, and can also use 100 round drums.

[[Image:QBB95Scope.jpg|thumb|none|400px|QBB-95 with 75-round drum magazine and 4x scope - 5.8x42mm]]
[[Image:BF3-QBB95-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|QBB-95 on the customise menu.]]

== QJY-88 ==

The [[Norinco QJY-88]] returns from Bad Company 2, once again called the "Type 88". This is quite odd, as the QBZ-95B, QBB-95, and QBU-88 all use their proper "QB" names.

[[Image:Type88gpmg2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Norinco QJY-88 - 5.8x42mm]]
[[Image:BF3-QJY88-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky discovers a QJY-88 with the rare and for some reason unpopular linoleum-plated finish.]]

== PKP Pecheneg ==

The [[PK_Machine_Gun#PKP_Pecheneg_Machine_Gun|PKP Pecheneg]] has been seen in gameplay trailers.

[[Image:Pecheneg.jpg|thumb|401px|none|PKP Pecheneg machine gun with ammo box - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:BF3-PKP-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds a PKP Pecheneg as he infiltrates someone's garage in "Operation Guillotine."]]
[[Image:BF3-PKP-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovski uses his PKP Pecheneg to make some amendments to the internal layout of a building. Mostly new doors.]]

== RPK ==

The [[RPK light machine gun]] is the starting weapon for the Russian Support class. It is referred to in game as an "[[RPK light machine gun#RPK-74|RPK-74M]]", a modernised 5.45x39mm version with synthetic furnishings and a flash hider, despite that it is shown with neither. The weapon's damage is the only thing that matches the idea that it is a -74 model, as it is scaled to the 5.56mm machine guns. When mounting optics the weapon gains side-mounted bracket for attaching them; if it does not mount optics, the bracket is not present. It can sometimes be found fitted with a vertical front grip attached to the underside of the handguard.

[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn holds an RPK equipped with a Kobra reflex sight during "Uprising."]]
[[Image:BF3-RPK-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn looks down at an RPK on the ground; note the lack of a rail under the handguard. Despite this, it can still mount a RIS foregrip.]]
[[Image:BF3-RPK-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading an RPK fitted with an odd aftermarket bipod; the real RPK bipod is fixed just behind the front sight and folds backwards. This bipod is actually shorter than the magazine and therefore would not be particularly useful.]]

= Sniper Rifles =

Unusually, Recon players can opt for low-magnification optics, unmagnified reflex/red-dot sights, or even iron-sights in lieu of the standard high-magnification optics.

== Barrett M98B ==

The [[Barrett M98B|M98B]] is the last bolt action unlocked.

[[Image:M98B.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Barrett M98B with Harris bipod - .338 Lapua Magnum]]
[[Image:BF3-98B-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn uses an M98B with the bipod set up as he assaults the bank at the end of "Operation Guillotine."]]

== Barrett M107 ==

The [[Barrett M107]] is confirmed to be in the game, however, DICE felt that the .50 caliber round it uses would either be overpowered if depicted properly, or feel useless if kept balanced, so they opted to simply not have it in multiplayer. It only appears in the singleplayer level "Kaffarov", where player character Dmitri Mayakovsky acquires it due to a somewhat bizarre series of events that don't seem to play out quite the way they were intended to. Here, it is equipped with a thermal scope.

[[Image:Berrett M107.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Barrett M107 long range sniper rifle - .50 BMG.]]
[[Image:BF3-Barrett-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the room ''before'' Dmitri Mayakovsky is actually supposed to get the M107, he acquires the M107 by approaching the door.]]
[[Image:BF3-Barrett-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|On opening the door he finds an enemy sniper kindly carrying the M107 he already has, with the barrel pretending to be a bipod and the magazine vaguely hanging about underneath the gun.]]
[[Image:BF3-SV98-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Thank you, I had no idea why I was carrying that."]]
[[Image:BF3-Barrett-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky thanks the man by murdering him with his own SV-98 and proceeds onward, armed with the M107.]]

== Accuracy International Arctic Warfare ==

The [[Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_series#Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare|Accuracy International Arctic Warfare]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack as the "L96", and can be used by the Recon kit.

[[Image:Accuracy International Arctic Warfare - Psg 90.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Accuracy International Arctic Warfare - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-L96-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AW on the customise menu.]]

== M39 EMR ==

The [[M14#M39 Enhanced Marksman Rifle|M39 EMR]] is the last rifle unlocked for the Recon class. It can be unlocked earlier should a player receive a high enough Co-Op Score.

[[Image:M-39EMR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M39 Enhanced Marksman Rifle with Harris bipod - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-M39-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds an M39 EBR rather curiously equipped with a Russian PK-AS optic as he looks around Kaffarov's villa. He might be a bad guy, but he sure knows how to keep the place neat.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 ebr.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 ebr reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== M40A5 ==

The [[Remington Model 700#M40A5 Sniper Rifle|M40A5]] is the second bolt-action rifle unlocked for the Recon class.

[[Image:M40A5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M40A5 - 7.62x51mm NATO ]]
[[Image:BF3-M40-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds a suppressed M40A5 fitted with an IR scope during the mission "Night Shift."]]

== Mk 11 Mod 0 ==

The [[Knight's_Armament_SR-25|Mk 11 Mod 0]] can be found occasionally in the single-player campaign. It is the default rifle for the US Recon kit in multiplayer, outfitted by standard with a x8 rifle scope.

[[Image:SR25.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Knight's Armament SR-25 (known as Mk 11 Mod 0 in USMC and US Navy service) with suppressor and Harris bipod - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-Mod11-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|Blackburn holds a scoped Mk 11 Mod 0 during Operation Swordbreaker.]]
[[Image:BF3-Mk 11-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Marine sniper in multiplayer provides some overwatch with his scoped Mk 11 Mod 0.]]
[[Image:BF3-Mk 11-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|After some successful hunting, he reloads his rifle...]]
[[Image:BF3-Mk 11-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And hits the bolt-release. Note that the fire-selector is set to safe.]]

== Norinco NDM-86 ==

The .308 variant of the [[SVD_Dragunov#Norinco_NDM-86|Norinco NDM-86]] returns from ''[[Battlefield Play4Free]]'', once again appearing as the ''[[SVD]]'' It is default for the Russian Recon Kit sporting a 7x Scope by default.

[[Image:Ndm86.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Norinco NDM-86 - .308 Winchester/7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3 NorincoNDM Multi.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character in multiplayer holds an NDM-86 fitted with a PKS-07 scope.]]

== QBU-88 ==

The [[Norinco QB rifle series|QBU-88]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by the Recon kit.

[[Image:Qbu-88-0.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Norinco QBU-88 5.8x42mm]]
[[Image:BF3-QBU88-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|QBU-88 on the customise menu.]]

== SKS ==

The [[SKS rifle|SKS]] is seen mentioned in pre-order information. In-game, it has synthetic Tapco furniture and uses 20 round magazines.

[[Image:Sks_tapco_stock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SKS with Tapco furniture installed as it appears ingame - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-SKS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SKS on the customise menu.]]
[[Image:BF3 SKS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character in multiplayer holds an SKS as he ponders if there might be a tank nearby.]]

== SV-98 ==

The [[SV-98]] returns as the first unlockable bolt action rifle.

[[Image:SV98.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SV-98 with suppressor, bipod, carrying handle, and mirage band - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:BF3-SV98-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During an extremely confusing QTE, an enemy sniper holds an SV-98.]]
[[Image:BF3 SV98.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SV-98 standard with no upgraded scope or bipod.]]

= Launchers =

== FGM-148 Javelin ==

The [[FGM-148 Javelin|Javelin]] appears and can be used in either top-down or direct-fire modes, and obviously needs a lock to fire. In the campaign, Blackburn uses one during "Operation Guillotine;" here it has infinite ammunition. During the latter sequence, the Javelin is shown firing at absurdly short range; in real life it has a minimum range of around 250 feet.

[[Image:Javalin.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FGM-148 Javelin - 127mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Javelin-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Harassed by tanks during "Operation Guillotine," Blackburn comes across his salvation in the form of an FGM-148 Javelin launcher.]]
[[Image:BF3-Javelin-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds the Javelin. Note the help text misidentifies it as a SMAW.]]

== FIM-92A Stinger ==

The [[FIM-92A Stinger]] appears as the American Engineer's anti-air launcher.

[[Image:-0976t.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FIM-92A Stinger - 70mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Stinger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Finding himself under attack from an Su-25 "Frogfoot" ground-attack plane, Blackburn searches the wreckage of an M1161 "Growler" ITV. Thankfully, the Stinger is apparently made of stronger stuff than the light vehicle which exploded with it inside.]]

== GP-30 ==

Interestingly, if the M320 is mounted to a Russian weapon, it instead becomes a [[GP-30]], though the name is not mentioned.

[[Image:Gp-30 ak-74.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GP-30 40mm grenade launcher mounted on an [[AK-74]] (5.45x39mm)]]

==Heckler & Koch M320 ==

The [[M320]] is the standard grenade launcher and can fire standard HE rounds, buckshot, or smoke rounds. It can either be mounted on the rifle, or standalone.

[[Image:XM320 stock extended.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch M320 with optional telescoping stock - 40x46mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M320-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds a standalone M320 at the start of "Operation Guillotine." This appears to be randomly dropped by US infantry in this area.]]
[[Image:BF3-M320-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As usual for an FPS protagonist, Blackburn is of the "pick a random notch and use it like a regular iron sight" school of leaf sight use.]]
[[Image:BF3-M320-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the standalone M320; note the front grip visible and the fire selector always set to safe.]]
[[Image:BF3-M320-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn reloads the M320 mounted under his HK416. Note that here he is removing the "spent" round; there appears to only be one grenade round model, so the fired round is shown unfired.]]

== M136 AT4 ==

The [[M136 AT4]] appears in the hands of US Marines and is equipped with a vertical foregrip. The AT4 will only appear in the Singleplayer campaign.

[[Image:AT-4Launcher.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|M136 AT4 - 84mm]]
[[Image:BF3-AT4-3.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn readies an AT4 as the squad try to take out a sniper hidden in a hotel.]]
[[Image:BF3-AT4-2.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|The results are fairly predictable.]]
[[Image:BF3-AT4-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Throughout the campaign, Matkovic carries an AT4 on his back.]]

==M224 Mortar==

At the start of "Operation Guillotine," Blackburn is tasked with briefly carrying an [[M224 Mortar]] as he advances with his fellow Marines; here it cannot be used by the player, and is used by NPCs to fire illumination rounds during the night-time mission. In multiplayer it can be used by the Support class; the M224 in multiplayer has infinite ammunition and can fire smoke or HE rounds. In singleplayer, it is shown with no baseplate fitted, which would make it practically impossible to actually use.

[[Image:M224-60mm-mortar.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M224 Mortar - 60mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M224-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn looks at the set-up M224, wondering when he can have a go.]]

== Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW ==

The [[Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW]] appears as the American Engineer's unguided rocket launcher.

[[Image:Mk153SMAW.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW - 83mm]]
[[Image:BF3 SMAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mk 153 Mod 0 in Multiplayer.]]

== RPG-7V2 ==

The [[RPG-7#RPG-7|RPG-7]] is featured as the Russian Engineer's unguided rocket launcher.

[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|RPG-7 - 40mm]]
[[Image:BF3-RPG7-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Practically invisible in his well-planned cover position, an Iranian soldier with an RPG-7 plots his next move.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 rpg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 rpg reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== SA-18 Grouse ==

The [[SA-18 Grouse]] (Russian: 9K38 Igla) appears as the Russian Engineer's anti-air launcher. As in the previous ''Battlefield'' games it is named "SA-18 Igla", using the US designation for the weapon, but the Russian nickname.

[[Image:Igla 191.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA-18 Grouse launcher and missile - 72mm]]
[[Image:BF3BL9K38.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The SA-18's in-game render, oddly enough, is an [[SA-7 Grail]].]]
[[Image:BF3 SA18 Multi.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holds an SA-18 in multiplayer.]]

= Explosives =

== M15 Anti-Tank mine ==

The [[M15 anti-tank mine|M15 Anti-Tank mine]] can be used by the Engineer kit. In Multiplayer mines that are placed can only be destroyed with explosives, shooting them has no effect.

[[Image:Landmine-dod-closeup.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M15 Anti-Tank mine]]
[[Image:BF3 ATMine Multi.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holds an M15 anti-tank mine.]]

== M18A1 Claymore ==

[[M18A1 Claymore]] anti-personnel mines can also be used by the Support kit.

[[Image:M18a1 07.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine]]

== M67 Hand Grenade ==

The [[M67 hand grenade]] is the primary grenade seen in ''Battlefield 3'', used by all factions. Instead of a grenade indicator, the body of the grenade flashes to make it more easily visible. In multiplayer, every kit gets one as standard, but can equip more by using the "FRAG" specialization. There are two ways to throw grenades; either using a hotkey which does not allow them to be cooked, or by selecting the grenade as a weapon, which does.

[[Image:Baseball.jpg|thumb|none|250px|M67 hand grenade]]
[[Image:BF3-M67-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn readies an M67 grenade.]]

==M84 stun grenade==

Blackburn uses an [[M84 stun grenade]] to disorient a group of PLR fighters at the bottom of an elevator shaft.

[[Image:M84stun.jpg|thumb|none|M84 stun grenade]]
[[Image:BF3-Flashbang-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn, after managing not to fall to his death while rappelling down an elevator, readies an M84 "flashbang" grenade.]]
[[Image:BF3-Flashbang-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn throws the grenade. This frame and the next both show that, in common with many modern shooters, the thrown model is the same as the "in world" model for this grenade and so the safety lever is still attached.]]

= Mounted Weapons =

== AT-14 Spriggan ==

The [[AT-14 Spriggan]] appears in the game as the Russian counter to the American BGM-71 TOW mentioned above, and is also a secondary weapon on the BMP-2M APC.

[[Image:AT14-Spriggan.JPG|thumb|none|400px|AT-14 Spriggan launcher and missile - 152mm]]

== BGM-71 TOW ==

The [[BGM-71 TOW]] appears in the game as an emplaced anti-tank missile launcher for the US faction.

[[Image:Tow 07.jpg|thumb|none|400px|BGM-71 TOW on M220 tripod - 152mm]]

== Browning M2HB ==

The [[Browning M2#Browning M2 Heavy Barrel|Browning M2HB heavy machine gun]] appears in the game mounted on vehicles, including M1A2 Abrams tanks. In terms of gameplay, the M2HB behaves more like a medium machine gun, requiring three or four shots to kill infantry, and dozens to disable a vehicle. In multiplayer, M1 tanks can be fitted with an M2HB mounted above the main cannon. When mounted like this, the M2's rate of fire slows to about 400rpm but gains a damage bonus that puts its power more in line with its real life counterpart. These changes were likely made to keep heavy machine guns from being overly powerful compared to other weapons.

[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB heavy machine gun in vehicle mount - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:BF3-M2-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|At the end of "Uprising," Blackburn takes control of an M2HB mounted on a Humvee as he defends a landing zone until a V-22 Osprey can extract the scattered Marines.]]
[[Image:BF3-M2-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Near the end of "Thunder Run," Sergeant Jonathan Miller mans his tank's .50 cal. It seems in the game's fiction the US Marine Corps has upgraded their Abrams tanks, since Anvil 3 is an M1A2, currently used only by the US Army. Note the TUSK gunshields for the missing loader's M240 are instead fitted to the M2.]]
[[Image:BF3-M2-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A M2HB mounted on M1161 "Growler" ITV.]]

== DShK heavy machine gun (mounting) ==

Mountings for the [[DShK heavy machine gun]] can be seen on Iranian Type-72Z main battle tanks, modernised versions of the Russian T-55. These tanks seem to have been modelled from museum display vehicles, since the gun itself is missing from the mounting.

[[Image:DShKM-vehicle-mount.jpg|thumb|none|400px|DShKM heavy machine gun in standard vehicle mounting on a Romanian TR-85 main battle tank - 12.7x108mm]]
[[Image:BF3-DShK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|An Iranian Type-72Z shows off the DShK it conspiciously does not have. Note the border at the edge of the screenshot is authentic, intended to display the edge of the Abrams' display screen as the vehicle moves around.]]

== GAU-8/A Avenger ==

The [[General Electric GAU-8/A Avenger]] appears in the game as the secondary armament of the A-10 Thunderbolt II ground attack jet.

[[Image:GAU-8A.jpg|thumb|400px|none|GAU-8/A Avenger complete with feed system and 1,174 round drum - 30x173mm]]
[[Image:BF3-GAU-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Jennifer Hawkins looks out at an A-10 Thunderbolt II armed with a GAU-8 during the mission "Going Hunting."]]
[[Image:BF3-GAU-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Later in the mission Hawkins gets to call in gun runs from the A-10, here shown on thermal.]]

== GE M134 Minigun ==

The [[GE M134 Minigun]] is seen mounted on AH-6 Little Birds in both single and multiplayer.

[[Image:M134.JPG|thumb|none|400px|General Electric M134 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-M134-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An AH-6 "Little Bird" opens fire with its M134 minigun. Note that tracers are treated as solid by the engine, meaning the underside of what should be a bright light source is shown in shadow here. This is only really visible in stills.]]

== General Dynamics GAU-17/A ==

Two [[M134_Minigun#General_Dynamics_GAU-17.2FA|GAU-17/A miniguns]] are mounted on the sides of UH-1Y helicopters. More strangely, two are mounted on the windows of Kaffarov's Ka-60 Kasatka helicopter in the singleplayer campaign.

[[Image:GAU-17A HH60.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Dynamics GAU-17/A, US Air Force version of the M134 Minigun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-GAU17-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A GAU-17/A can be seen mounted on Kaffarov's private helicopter as Dmitri Mayakovsky dangles from it. Note it has no ammo feed.]]

== Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-1 ==

The [[Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30#GSh-30-1|Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-1]] appears in the game as the secondary armament of the Su-35BM Flanker-E fighter jet.

[[Image:GSH30 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-1 with ammo belt 30mm]]
[[Image:BF3-MiG-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the mission "Going Hunting," Hawkins faces several Su-35BM Flanker-E aircraft, incorrectly referred to throughout as "MiGs." This error is only present in the text in this mission; they are correctly named elsewhere in the game.]]
[[Image:BF3-MiG-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Chased by ''Shark 4-6'', one Su-35BM decides to show off with Pugachev's Cobra manoeuvre...]]
[[Image:BF3-MiG-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...giving Hawkins a nice look at its missile armament.]]

==Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2==

The [[Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2]] appears in the game as the secondary armament of the Su-25TM (Su-39) Frogfoot ground attack jet.

[[Image:GSh-30-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2 30mm automatic cannon - 30x165mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Frogfoot-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Su-39 Frogfoot ground attack aircraft flies over as Blackburn finds himself between Iraq and a hard place.]]
[[Image:BF3-Frogfoot-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|It soon returns for a series of gun runs as Blackburn has to move from cover to cover to find a Stinger. The Frogfoot here is basically firing a death ray with a deadzone around pieces of cover; moving out of cover is instant death during the time that counts as its attack even if it has already flown overhead and stopped firing.]]

== Kord ==

The [[Kord heavy machine gun]] is mounted on the T-90A tank, Russian army buggies and Vodniks, and a number of technicals. It behaves very similarly to the [[Browning M2#Browning M2 Heavy Barrel|Browning M2HB heavy machine gun]]: more in line with a medium machine gun, and can be mounted on a T-90 with a lowered rate of fire but higher shot-for-shot damage.

[[Image:Kord 02.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Kord heavy machine gun with ammo box - 12.7x108mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Kord-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn looks over a Kord machine gun mounted on a technical.]]
[[Image:BF3-Kord-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|He soon discovers the hard way that manning a Kord during an earthquake is a bad idea.]]
[[Image:BF3-Kord-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A T-90 MBT opens fire with its main gun, the massive muzzle flash illuminating the Commander's Kord heavy machine gun.]]

== M61 Vulcan ==

The [[M61 Vulcan#M61 Vulcan|M61 Vulcan]] appears in the game as the secondary armament of the F/A-18E and F/A-18F Super Hornet fighter jets. M61s are also seen in Phalanx installations on American warships, and in multiplayer the US base is protected by a land-based Phalanx C-RAM installation.

[[Image:M61vulcan.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M61 Vulcan - 20mm]]
[[Image:Phalanx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Phalanx CIWS - 20mm]]
[[Image:C-RAM_3.JPG|thumb|none|401px|Land-based Phalanx C-RAM mounting on a mobile trailer - 20mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|In the mission "Gone Hunting" the player character is Lieutenant Jennifer Hawkins, WSO of an F/A-18F "Super Hornet" assigned to CVN-77 USS ''George H.W. Bush''.]]
[[Image:BF3-Phalanx-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hawkins climbs up to the deck of the USS ''George H.W. Bush'', spotting the USS ''Ford'' (FFG-54), an ''Oliver Hazard Perry''-class frigate in the distance. This incorrectly mounts bow and stern Phalanx installations; while a future block upgrade is planned to add a forward gun over the removed SM-1 missile launcher of nine of the ''Perry''-class, this will be a Mk 38 Mod 2 (a remote-controlled navalised [[M242 Bushmaster chaingun]]), not a second Phalanx.]]
[[Image:BF3-M61-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The two Hornets ''Shark 4-2'' and ''Shark 4-6'' overfly the US fleet, giving plenty of glimpses of Phalanx installations on the various ships.]]
[[Image:BF3-C-RAM.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close up look at a land-based Phalanx C-RAM in multiplayer.]]

== M197 Vulcan ==

The [[M61 Vulcan#General Dynamics M197 Vulcan|M197 Vulcan]] appears in the game as the secondary armament of the AH-1Z Viper attack helicopter.

[[Image:M197Gatling.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M197 Vulcan - 20mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M197-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Miller looks up at a friendly AH-1Z Viper during the mission "Thunder Run."]]
[[Image:BF3-M197 Vulcan-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closer look at an AH-1Z Viper's M197 Vulcan cannon.]]

== GAU-12/U ==

The [[General Dynamics GAU-12/U#GAU-12/U|GAU-12/U]] is the main gun on the LAV-AD in multiplayer. It should be noted that the LAV-AD itself is technically anachronistic as it has been removed from service.

[[Image:GAU-12U.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Dynamics GAU-12/U with unfired rounds - 25mm]]
[[Image:BF3-GAU-12U.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A GAU-12/U mounted on an LAV-AD.]]

== GAU-22/A ==

The [[General Dynamics GAU-12/U#GAU-22/A|GAU-22/A]] appears in the game as the secondary weapon of F-35B Lightning II aircraft on some multiplayer maps, such as the revamped version of Gulf of Oman.

[[Image:F-35 GAU-22A.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GAU-22/A - 25mm]]

== M240C ==

The [[FN MAG#M240 Machine Gun|M240C machine gun]] is coaxially mounted on the M1A2 Abrams MBT.

[[Image:M240C.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240C machine gun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-M240C-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Miller runs back towards the tank column after retrieving the "clicker" trigger for an M58 Mine Clearing Line Charge.]]

== M242 Bushmaster ==

The [[M242 Bushmaster chaingun]] is the main gun of the LAV-25.

[[Image:M242 25mm gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M242 Bushmaster chaingun - 25mm]]
[[Image:BF3-LAV-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn and his fellow Marines get out of their own LAV-25 and look over someone else's at the start of "Operation Swordbreaker."]]
[[Image:BF3-LAV-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn looks over another LAV-25 during the mission "Rock and a Hard Place."]]

== Mk 19 ==

The [[Mk 19 grenade launcher]] is seen mounted on M1114 Humvees and AAVP7A1 amphibious transports.

[[Image:US_Mk._19_40mm_grenade_machine-gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mk 19 grenade launcher on vehicle mount - 40mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Mk19-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Miller looks over an AAVP7A1, mounting an M2HB and a Mark 19 grenade launcher in the commander's mini-turret.]]

== PKT ==

The [[PK Machine Gun#Kalashnikov PK/PKM Machine Gun|PKT machine gun]] is coaxially mounted on the T-90A and T-72 MBTs.

[[Image:Machine gun PKT.jpg|thumb|none|400px|PKT machine gun with 250-round ammo drum - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:BF3-T72-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Miller gets a little ''too'' close to an Iranian T-72. The coaxial gun on the T-72 is mounted to the right of the main gun; the view is blocked from most angles (including this one) by the searchlight mounted next to it.]]

== Shipunov 2A42 ==

The [[Shipunov 2A42]] appears in the game as the main gun of the BMP-2M and BTR-90 APCs, and the secondary armament of the Mi-28 Havoc helicopter.

[[Image:Shipunov 2A42.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Shipunov 2A42 - 30mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Shipunov-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn advances on a BMP-2M during "Rock and a Hard Place," the IFV seemingly oblivious to his dastardly rocket-launching ambitions.]]

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:Battlefield]]
[[Category:Swedish Produced/Filmed]]

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T18:30:02Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* My God */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T18:29:33Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* My God */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox.

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Collateral

2011-12-04T05:10:05Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Officer from near the end of the movie */

== Colt 9mm SMG ==

Can't speak to it's use in the US but Mexican tourist police carry them. - Nyles
: They are issued to DEA agents from what I know. Some police stations are issued them as well. -GM

::If you ever find pictures of Department of Energy security teams from immediately after 9/11, you will see quite a few of these in use. As best I know, though, they've mostly replaced their 9mm subguns with M4s, same as most LE tactical units nowadays. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:40, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

==Vincent's Holster==
With many people wondering what Vincent's holster is, I took some shots to help everyone out.
[[Image:Vincent'sHolster.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A zoomed in shot of Vincent's inside the waist holster when he draws it on the robbers.]]
[[Image:Vincent'sRig.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's zoomed shots of both his holster and his mag holders.]]
[[Image:CollateralVincent'sHolsterISW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vincent's holster when the cab crashes.]]

Hope this helps someone I.D. them. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

It sure helped me ID that Tom Cruise wore some tight freaking pants!

According to the DVD commentary, Tom Cruise used a serpa holster for the USP. So maybe he used one for the movie as well.

Those mag carriers are nice, Got 3 of them because of this movie and love them.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:16, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

According the the HKPro forums, a member contacted Mick Gould, the firearms instructor for the film, about the holster. The holster he used in training was a example of a Yaqui Slide type holster. But, the holster in the film was custom made, and Cruise kept it after filming. I can add some credit to this, as I've searched through almost every hoslter maker with a website, and found nothing even remotely similar. But, of course, this is the internet, and people can say whatever they want.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 18:39, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

==The Train Scene==

when the lights come back on after the shootout, vincent, who has lost so much blood that his fine motor skills are beginning to deteriorate, does appear to have a full mag in his holders. when the movie cuts to the mag hitting the floor, even in stadard definition one can see that there are bullets in the mag. i am fairly certain that the cut is not of an empty mag hitting the floor, but vincent has dropped his last full mag and realizes that that he has been beaten. i know that this is a gun info site however i thought showing the correct sequence of events might be of some importance.
::You can see the plastic red follower on the top of the magazine, an obvious indication it is empty. He also searches his belt for a long time to find a spare magazine. You should keep in mind he took the guards 5906 but no spare mags, so he didn't have anything to reload with anyway. I believe Mann commented on this in the DVD commentary but I might have to go back and check. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::''I always thought that Vincent had been going to reload, but dropped his one spare as a result of involuntary loss of control of his support hand, because he looks like he's got something in his hands right before he pitches forward and the camera cuts to the magazine hitting the floor.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 00:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Gunmaster for pointing that out. at the time i wrote my original comment, i was unaware of the red followers as my S&W 1006 has white ones and my 4506 has black followers. looking at the frame and watching the movie again i can see the follower, not a cartridge.

*Originally, in the script, he actually WAS to have another mag, but fumbled. That was changed, though.-protoAuthor 04:14, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

well if he did fumble on that reload , wouldnt there be two magizines on the floor . the only one that hits looks like the one he had spent .[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

I always thought that Vincent picked up the guards gun cause he lost his in the car crash. when he emptied it in the shootout he instinctively reached for another mag to reload but realized he didnt have mags for that gun. - EVNASH

that is why he took the guards gun, but i think he realised he was wounded, was out of magizines, and gave up--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

It's a little hard to catch, but if you listen to the scene, you can hear the empty magazine hit the floor before just before he reaches for a new one and the scene cuts. So, he does have one more magazine in his holders, and he does fumble the reload, but the armorers for the film left the last mag empty, probably as a safety precaution.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 18:34, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

That was movie editing, he would have been diving for it if he had one. You can see him check both holders and come up surprised he
didn't have a spare. I've done it myself at the range once. (Same magazine holders too.)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

== Just bought the movie ==
Man(n), this movie is awesome. -protoAuthor 18:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

== Ruger Mark II ==

The Ruger mark II is used t kill Daniel the club owner. After that it is never seen again, so I'm assuming Vincent put it in his briefcase which Max threw off the bridge, which is why it's never seen again. This became clear when in the train scene Vincent reaches for a magazines off his holders but he is fresh out, if he had his Ruger he could of used that. Also Vincent must of reloaded his Smith & Wesson 5906, so I guess it must use the same ammunition as a USP-45 either that or the security guard must of had spare clips. Could someone please verify this- thank you.
:Well, seeing as the 5906 is a 9mm and the USP45 is a .45, he must have gotten the MAGAZINES (not clips) from the security guard. That's an interesting point about the Ruger, though. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 17:13, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
:He didn't ever reload the S&W. He only fires 1 mag. He didn't take any mags.-protoAuthor 03:03, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Plus he uses one at Fever and loses the other after the car wreck. You can see it fall off.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I think that the magazine that drops is a spare magazine. Why would a well trained assassin take someone's gun but not spare ammunition for it just in case? The magazine doesn't look empty that drops and he is shot on the side of the body which his hand he uses to get the spare magazines from is on. Plus the way it is edited makes me think that it slipped out of his hand. He isn't a robot, if he didn't take spares he would know that he doesn't have any spare magazines and would not try to reload. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:23, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

That mag that dropped was from the gun and was empty, also there are alot of people that don't carry a spare magazine and this guard may have been one of those. http://www.kyimports.com/images/smw15rd5906.jpg--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:14, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Well Vincent is a bit stupid then, but then again he did get killed by a cab driver lol. That to me is poor editing as well, surely if they would have meant that to be the ejected magazine the shot of it hitting the floor should have come before the one of him reaching for another one. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 00:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

== Final shoot out. ==

In this article, it offers what appears to be a very assured explanation of the final shootout at the end of the movie. It claims that Vincent lost the battle because of his failure to change his killing pattern, blindly following the same method he uses to kill all his targets. I think that this theory is incorrect. Don't you think a hitman as experienced and capable as Vincent would know enough to change his method when it is clear it wouldn't work? While Vincent prefers to shoot his victims with the two-in-the-chest, one-in-the-head method, I'm sure that this tactic is used when he deems it appropriate, and I'm sure a man like Vincent, as intelligent as he is, would not stupidly follow this pattern when it obviously wouldn't work. When a metal door is blocking a clear shot of his target, I'm sure Vincent would know better than to shoot at the door itself, and take advantage of the situation and try to shoot through the windows.

How can a trained hitman like Vincent, lose against Max who has no training what so ever shooting single-handed when Vincent used both hands and fired with a good grip on the gun ? ([[AceV]])

:Lucky shot? But yeah, I get it, that last scene was a bit stupid when clearly a trained professional wouldn't just shoot at a metal door. He should have waited for Max to shoot and empty his gun since Vincent knows Max is an untrained taxi driver. I'm also wondering since Vincent lost his primary weapon, shouldn't he have a back up? He is an ex-military, special forces kind of guy after all. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

well, vincent had (kind of) a back up gun, his ruger markII. It was in the bag, which max threw down the bridge and was crushed by the truck.

Well, Vincent was pretty pissed off at the end, what with being shot in the head and all. That may have clouded his judgment of situation a bit. --[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 19:55, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Well it pissed me off, Vincent spent the whole movie, killing people, people who have actually at least touched a gun and then all of a sudden an untrained cab driver just comes and kills him, in a a shoot out, not from behind or anything a shoot out, that was dissapointing. ([[AceV]])

Just because he's skilled at killing people doesn't mean Vincent is indestructable, and just because Max never touched a gun doesn't mean he's going to fall over and die at the first stiff breeze to come along. People die all the time and they don't go out in a blaze of glory, it just happens, that's life. Besides, the whole scene at the end was about Vincent not changing his routine. The way he still reaches for magazines even though he's carrying a different weapon, how he goes for the mozambique drill even though there's a big steel train door between him and Max instead of shooting through the glass, etc. For all his talk of improvisation he was too set in his ways and couldn't prepare for a cab driver.

i agree with what the aformentioned says. in stead of adapting to the situation, he went with what he knew. which was the mozambique drill , which turned out to be his downfall in the end.[[simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

It goes along with what Vincent was preaching to Max about earlier; to adapt and evolve to your surroundings. Vincent relied on the Mozambique drill he had perfected, even when he didn't have a clear shot on Max. Max clumsily shot around in multiple directions, increasing his chances to hit his unseen target. Max was able to evolve, Vincent wasn't. There's also some argument to the idea of a chaotic outcome, in that in the movie when Max steps out in front on the train for the last time to face Vincent, he closes his eyes as well as fireing the weapon with no regard for his aim other then the single direction towards Vincent. This is confirmed by the director Mann in the movies commentary, in fact Mann goes on to say the only reason Max succeeds is because the character closes his eyes and throws the dice so to speak. Again going back to the idea of improvisation, Max was willing to take the gamble where as Vincent played the safe bet, and the outcome was in Max's favor.

I'd say Vincent got something called "paralysis by analysis". When you have the mechanics of something well figured out its best to just let it happen. Choking occurs when people who know better start thinking too hard about what they need to do. The added pressure forces your brain into a state called "paralysis by analysis" where the "working memory" part of your brain literally stops working, and the more talented you are the more working memory you have meaning the harder the failure. --[[User:Devang.dn|Devang.dn]] 23:23, 22 March 2011 (CDT)

== Slight comment overhaul ==
I did some work praising the good gun work on the movie, you guys like it?-protoAuthor 04:12, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

No

Ralph pls go.--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 11:48, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Nice.--[[User:Spikemonkey|Spikemonkey]] 18:45, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

=="the first gun we see"==
It says "Detective Fanning (Mark Ruffalo) draws the first gun we see, a Smith & Wesson 4516 in .45 ACP". This is not true. the First gun we see is Vincents USP when he pulls it on max after el gordo falls out the window onto the taxi and max freaks out.

== Ruger Mark II ==

Why would the suppressed shots be louder than the guys head hitting the table? In case you didn't know, suppressors were made to make guns quieter. Even in a confined space, a silenced .22 with sub-sonic rounds (that's probably what Vincent would have used anyway, condidering that he's a hitman and cared enough to use a silenced pistol anyways) is ''very'' quiet. I have also shot a silenced .22 (a Ruger 77/22 bolt action, although this was outdoors so maybe the sound didn't travel as much, but that's not the point) and it was very quiet. With a bolt action gun it's even quiter since the bolt doesn't move with each shot. But anyways, the only sound a suppressed Ruger mark II would make (and made in the movie) is a slight click when the action cycles. This would have been quiter than a slamming head, unless he had a really fatty forehead. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 22:34, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
:Also, if the guy's head had hit the table, he would have knocked over glasses, and knocked the table to the ground, which is MUCH louder than any suppressed gunfire.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 22:52, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

A sub-sonic round in a .22 cal would not be able to cycle the action of a semi-auto, so if he shot more then once he wasnt using sub-sonic, ergo, the bullet would be over the sound barer and create that ol' classic crack of the round discharging. But for movie sake they we're probably just making the gun sound cooler. [[Spades of Columbia]]

:My Ruger Mk II cycles fine with sub-sonic rounds, and I didn't modify it at all. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:01, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Making Vincent is so resourceful he has a modded Ruger that has a weaker spring that cycles when shot with sub sonics. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:05, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The point was to explain why the "suppressed" gun was loud, not how it could in some way or another shoot a sub-sonic round. If that was the case a person could easily argue that he was using a 1050fps sub-sonic rd which in some guns can feed without modifacation instead of the normal 710fps round. [[Spades of Columbia]]

Yeah but (and correct me if I'm wrong) wouldn't he have shot him from such a close range that the bullet wouldn't have been able to break the sound barrier? Also, I agree with FIVETWOSEVEN on the theory of the modified spring. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 02:20, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

You've been corrected because your wrong...the powder burn would have been spent by the end of the barrel which uses the twist rate to fully bust its velosity, meaning, its pretty much going its top speed by the end of the barrel and the crack noice is usually signifying the bullet has left the firearm...combined with the noice of a all-steel action clanking together as it cycles the next round make a "Silenced" pistol, not so silent. [[Spades of Columbia]]

What do you mean the "normal" 710 fps round? That would be a CB Long or Short, not a normal round. Also watch this vid of a guy using an integrally suppressed Ruger Mark II with standard velocity ammo; I hear no crack. http://suppressorbuyersguide.com/Articles.php?action=detail&g=content1235373509s
And note that this suppressor is even shorter than the one that Vincent had, making it even less effective and yet still cycling and being very quiet with standard velocity ammo. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 03:19, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

You are very much correct sir. You did indeed prove me wrong on that one...but originally i was trying to explain why it might have been so loud in the movie for being silenced...any thoughts on that.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:53, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

probably a decision made by the sound guys. Most people want to hear that distinctive chirp so they know, "oh hey, his gun had a silencer on it." Just playing into the audience's preconceptions.

Question for everyone: take a close look at the picture with the street thug holding the pistol to Max's head. It looks more like a Walther PPK or PPK/s. I own a couple so I'm familiar with the details on the rear of the slide and this photo looks more Walther than SIG. Could be just the way it looks, but it seems that way to me.

Its a SIG, look at the extractor. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:13, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Not to mention the cocking serrations. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 23:31, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

What does Vincent finally do with the SIG ? I'm pretty sure he retrieves it from the thug. Does he lose it along with the rest of his belongings ? - Devang

He didn't pick it up, he picked up Max's wallet.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:26, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

==Fanning==
How come when Detective Fanning enters Ramon's apartment he draws his gun one handed and clears the entire apartment one handed? Wouldn't most trained cops clear a room with both hands on their weapon?

One word, Preference.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:13, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

He was still undercover at the time, so he didn't want to look like a cop. -[[User:nkingman|nkingman]]

actualy he wasnt undercover . Ramon was an informant . i agree with 527.-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Hes actually a Detective.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 05:07, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

My problem is that his finger is on the trigger the whole time. Seems unsafe if you are looking for an informer. --[[User:Westernman1987|Westernman1987]]

No, Fanning's not the informant, he's going to the home of the informant who Vincent just shot and sent through a window. The trigger on the finger thing is a bit unprofessional but in a stress induced situation, you sometimes forget [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:05, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Ramon was a Federal witness. It's been a while since I've seen the film but I got the impression that Fanning was an undercover narcotic's officer judging by the fake accent when he is asking for Ramon and his appearance. I assumed he was undercover trying to bust Ramon. Like I said though it's been a while since I watched it. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:12, 3 April 2011 (CDT)

Hes Not a witness, Hes An Informant, Fanning Is LAPD, If He was A Federal witness, He Would Be In Witness Protection With The U.S. Marshals. Fanning When To See His CI (confidential Informant), Saw Signs Of A Strugel, IE The Door Being Left Open, No Answer After Repeted calls of His NAme, And Claered The House. He Should Have Kepy His Finger Off The Triger Since There Were No Signs Of exigent circumstances. and Going In One Handed Could Be One Of Two Things. It Was To Hide The Fact That He Is LAPD And Keep Ramon Safe, As [[User:nkingman|nkingman]] Pointed Out, Or, And This Is More Likely, He Just Pulled, And So He Could Pop His Head, And His Gun Hand Out, And Have Hib Body Remain In Cover, Like He Does In The Second To Last Photo.--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Simmons did you even watch the film? Everyone that Vincent killed was a Federal witness for the prosecution. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:30, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

I Did Watch The Film, But The Term Federal Is Being Thrown Around To Much. The One Witness I Would Call A Federal Witness Would Be The One At Fever, Because The FBI Was Watching Him. Just Because Your A Witness, Doesnt Mean Your A Federal One. Not To Mention, Fanning Calls Him An Informant.--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

They were all witnesses in the same trial. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:42, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

Ramon was an informant. Not a witness. The man in fever was a witness. No one said ramon was going to testify.--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

YES THEY DID! In the scene where Fanning meets the FBI outside Felix's club he tells them about Ramon and Pedrosa says that's 3 witnesses so far. Just because you don't pay attention doesn't make what you think so. Nothing annoys me more is people who don't pay attention and then try to tell people who did that they are wrong. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 11:36, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

Fanning isnt involved in that case. Ramon is still fanning CI. Thats what ties him into this case. Hes trying to find out what happened to his CI. I will admit that ramon was also a witness, if he was a federal witness, i dont understand why he and clark were not being watched by the U.S. marshals or the FBI (which i have no clue why there watching witnesses). When fanning went to see him, it wasnt to see him as a witness. It was to see him as his informant.--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Yeah but he was still a witness. Fanning looked undercover to me. How many times do you see in films that local cops are investigating criminals who the Feds have as a witness? The Feds weren't watching the guy in club fever they just knew where he hung out. The guy in club Fever was being watched by his own men that's why it took the Feds so long to get on the scene. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:52, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

The reason i think he wasnt undercover is because he had to keep ramons identity as a CI intact, and he doesnt change how he looked or anything. Also if hed had his badge. I dont know if he did because he is never really seen drawing it from his waist. So in a way he is undercover. And if you are a federal witness, even if you do NOT go it to witness protection, the Marshals watch you. Now that i think about it, not only was the FBI actually watching felix and doing the right thing, but no branch of law enforcement was watching these witnesses.--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

If there had been it would have been a very different film as Tom would have had to kill the Marshals at each hit and word would have gotten out. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 03:50, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

Well he handled the guards at fever very well. Id like to think that a former special forces soldier turned private sector mercinary would be able to handle himself in a situation like that.--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Yeah but word would have gotten out about Marshals being killed and the Feds would have secured the guy in Fever a lot sooner I imagine. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 09:21, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

True, But i would imagine that vincent would know that they would be there, and be prepaired to deal with the marshals moving the witnesses. I just would have liked to see how it would go down. your from the UK. What do they do with witnesses?--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

No idea. Knowing how screwed up our government is probably just leave them alone until they get murdered. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 11:58, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

That is a great way to deal with witnesses.--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Well they dealt with the riots by sitting back and just waiting for people to obey the law again. I feel sorry for the police in my country because no matter what they do they get chastised for it. They shoot a drug dealer who was illegally carrying a handgun and they murdered an innocent man. A guy breaks loose with a shotgun and goes on a killing spree and they aren't using enough force. They are always been called facists by people who don't have a clue about how the world works. I'd love to dump all the people who think the police in my country are corrupt, violent facists in somewhere where the police will kidnap and torture random people at the behest of the dictatorship government and then see what they think of our police. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:33, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

It would be great if the righters all wore [[V for Vendetta| the "V" masks]].Do the poliece in the UK carry handguns? Because i know that when on high alert, they jump right to the MP5, and does the UK have a SWAT/HRT?--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

The rioters weren't making any political point it was just a bunch of pricks who wanted to kick up a fuss. And we have specialised armed response units that are armed. The normal everyday cop on the street isn't armed. The UK has CO19 which is a specialist armed response unit. Normal everyday people did more to stop the rioters than the police did, but it's not the police's fault really it's the government refusing to allow them to do what was necessary until it was too late. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:53, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

Thats the down side to being in law enforcement. If you have to use dealy force, its excesive force, but if the suspect does kill an officer, your not using enough force. The world is such a backwards place. inn the words of [[Jack Nicholson]] as Col. Nathan R. Jessep in [[A Few Good Men]] "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Good quote. It's a shame that Jessop ends up being a bit mental. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:26, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

At least he isnt a scientoligest.--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Umm, you mean scientoLOGIst, right?... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 15:16, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

I mean crazy.--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Now ''that''... I can agree on --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 18:26, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

Good man. But what did the rioters want?--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Some prat got himself shot and some more prats decided that it was a good excuse to go rioting for no obvious reason --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 08:04, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

== hk 45 ==

Where can You find the new pics of tom cruise hk 45?

Its a USP 45, not a HK45, also it looks like any other USP.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:33, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Fanning's pistol ==

Fanning is not carrying a S&W 4516 in this movie. If you notice in the first screenshoot of him as he enters the apartment, the frame is contrasted sharply with the slide and guiderod. It has a duller "gray" color. The frame is not stainless, it is anodized alloy. There are no 3rd gen compact 45 guns made by S&W with allow frames other than the TSW and Recon versions (performance center). Fanning's gun doesn't have a rail or a "tactical" or "recon" billboard on the left side of the slide so that rules those out. The shadow of the first screenshot makes the bore look larger than it is but the second screenshot shows it's true size. That is a 9mm bore. Unless someone has some inside knowledge of this film and this is a specially made alloy framed, non-TSW compact 45, it should be changed to a S&W 3913.--[[User:Luckyluciano|Luckyluciano]] 05:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the gun is alloy framed and a non-TSW compact. It could be a 3913, but then it could also be a single stack non-TSW 4013. This verison of the 4013 is identical to the 4516, but in .40S&W and with an alloy frame. Also, Fanning's gun has a larger "beavertail" than what a 3913 would have.

The beavertail could be indicative of a 4013 but that would really depend on the size of the actor's hands since we don't have a plain view side shot of the gun itself. The other thing to note is that the magazines he carries (as seen when they first investigate Ramon's murder and the cab crime scene) have staggered holes in them. The 4013 magazine holes are in a straight vertical line but the 3913 magazines have staggered holes. That might not mean anything as the could easily have a 4013 as a prop gun and magazines from any other gun on his hip. --[[User:Luckyluciano|Luckyluciano]] 14:57, 16 March 2011 (CDT)

== Officer from near the end of the movie ==

We see the picture of the cop, who is an actual LAPD Officer, holding his issue Beretta, but we can see his thumb layered over his dominant hand. Thats just asking for slidebite. It seems like a poor grip for an actual LAPD officer. -MissySummers-

It all varies on the training. Some guns you can do that all day without slide bite.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:10, 3 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Collateral

2011-12-04T05:05:33Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* The Train Scene */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-10-31T15:02:10Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Something Odd */

== All weapons in BF3 ==

The list below shows all BF3 weapons that are going to be available either SP or MP.

This list is officially announced by EA, but i'm pretty sure there will be more coming.

NOTE: List has been edited to account for new information (eg: Both M16s and only P90TR) and name corrections (eg: DAO-12 to Striker)

Assault Rifles (Assault)
*M16A3 (US)
*AK-74M (RU)
*HK416
*G3A3
*AN-94
*KH2002
*AEK-971
*F2000
*AS VAL
*M16A4

Carbines (Engineer)
*M4A1 (US)
*AKS-74U (RU)
*G36C
*SCAR-H CQC
*A-91
*SG553
*M4

Machine Guns (Support)
*M27 IAR (US)
*RPK-74M (RU)
*M249E2
*M60
*M240
*6P41
*QYJ 88

Sniper Rifles (Recon)
*Mk.11 Mod.0 (US)
*SVD (RU)
*M40A5
*SV98
*M98B
*M82A3 (not in MP)

Battle Rifles (Recon)
*M39 EMR
*SKS

Sub-Machine Guns (All Kit)
*P90TR
*MP7A1
*UMP45
*PDR
*PP2000

Shotguns (All Kit)
*870 MCS
*M1014
*USAS-12
*Saiga 20K
*Striker

Pistols (All Kit)
*M9 (US)
*MP443 (RU)
*G17
*M-45
*MP412
*T44
*93R
*G18

Underbarrels (Assault)
*M320 with HE/Smoke/Buckshot rounds
*M26 MASS with Buckshot/Flechette/Frag/Slug rounds

Rocket Launchers (Engineer)
*Mk.153 SMAW (US)
*RPG-7 (RU)
*FGM-148 Javelin
*FIM-92 Stinger
*SA-18 IGLA
*AT4

( Source: http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/complete-list-of-battlefield-3-weapons/ ) --Zzang1847 23.09.2011 11.07 (PST)

:This is from a Batlefield 3 fansite and not acctualy offical --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 14:38, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::This has been discussed before. While it is technically official since the official gaming news sources are also reporting it, but since there aren't any pictures of 'em you have to wait.--[[User:Nomad175|Nomad175]] 15:55, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

:Pages without pictures or info look ugly. The game's out in less than a month, and the Beta's out in a few days, we can wait, but it does mean we get to know what's in the game anyway, even though it's not on the page :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:20, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::Although there were no pictures, i believe we still can at least put some description and real picture so someone who is actually uploading in-game pictures don't have to worry about putting explanation and finding pictures from the archive, which takes significant amount of time (in terms of AAA games like this).
::P.S) Sorry about this discussion already mentioned before. I thought i could give some help, but perhaps i'm not :( ~ Zzang1847 23.09.2011 8.43 (PST)

:::Building an article is not a race, there is just less than a week for the Beta to roll in, not that much to wait. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:52, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

Looks like it is going to just be Americans, Russians, Generic "Not the Taliban, honest" Middle Eastern Militia and possibly the Iranian army as factions then. Damn. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:28, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

:For SP yeah, but for MP it's been confirmed to be just US and RU. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:46, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

== Faction Specific Weaponry details ==
no need to worry , about faction specific weaponry , reading through some of Alan Kertz earlier posts.He states that the player once leveled up high enough in the class's levels will gain access to the other factions weaponry.

== Gun disparity ==

I have the feeling the M4A1 will be the counterpart to the AKS74U. This is wrong, but every game seems to do it. The M4 has a 14.5 inch barrel and is a standard issue weapon. The AKS74U has an 8.3 inch barrel and is issued to vehicle crews. A better setup would be Mk 18 Mod O (or HK416 D10RS) vs the AKS74U. Also, the M16 and AK74 aren't exactly equal either. Maybe pair up the regular M4A1 or SCAR-L with 14.5 inch barrel (for variety) with the AK74?

Oh and what do you think the US/EU counterparts to the SKS, RPK and AS Val will be? There's no US counterpart cartridge to the 7.62x39 and 9x39 as far as I know.
::There's no val, that's vss

:SKS = Mk.11 = SVD. RPK = M27. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:52, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Its the asval not vss :S.[[User:lukewilliams010]] 12:14 ,19 august 2011

== PKM\PKP operation ==

I've yet to see a game that properly portraits PKM operation with its 2 level feeding system and non-disintegrating belts. Curious if in BF3 they'll get it right. Doubt it though...

== Optic mounts ==

Optic mounts on all russian weapons are wrong. Basically it's an PSO with optic tube cut off and rail slapped instead of it. Then every Russian scope has its original mount removed so it can be fixed on that picatinny rail. They also didn't bother making [http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/photoshooter/1789/i-2863.jpg proper mount] for PKP and just put rail on top of the receiver lid. I was expecting more attention to details in BF3.

Well the Russian army IS starting to use RIS, just look at the AK-9. [http://world.guns.ru/assault/rus/ak-9-e.html] While it does seem a bit sloppy, it can be justified in a way. At least it isn't as bad as that AK-abomination from MW2 and the RPD with rails.

== Beta ==

Does anyone know when the beta is starting? cant wait for it! --[[Special:Contributions/109.78.246.33|109.78.246.33]] 21:34, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Or for that matter, how we can get in on it? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]]

To get into the Battlefield 3 beta, you need to buy specially-marked versions of the recent Medal Of Honor [[User:SeanWolf]]

Ya i got it, do you know when were getting the codes?--[[User:GunGunGun|GunGunGun]] 02:40, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I have no clue.[[User:SeanWolf]]

If you registered your Medal of Honor with your EA-Account, you'll get the invitation and infos, as soon as there is something, so far nothing is known.

Wish I could try the beta [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:15, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

:Not just you, after the videos they releases pretty much everybody is dying to get hands on the game. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 12:05, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Beta will be open to everyone. Those who got MoH, will get in earlier.

== AK-something-something ==

Check that dude in the BG. also what I think *might* be a holster, but I'm probably wrong.

http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf6.jpg

:It's definitely an AK-series rifle, which one I can't be sure of. If I had to guess however, I'd say either an AK-74, AK-74M, or AK-101. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 08:15, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

:It's a dump bag on his hip. At least that's what I think it is. It definitely isn't a holster though, since most drop leg holsters are strapped to your thigh. Why a guy with a belt fed machine gun has a dump bag through is beyond me.--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 09:19, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::If I had to guess, he may have been issued an M4 or M16 and picked up the MG prior to the pic being taken. You can also see some STANAG mag pouches on the front of his vest too. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

:::I Agree with Orca1, I know you can't see from the distance, but the profile of the muzzle looks like one of those 3. As the game is set in 2014, im assuming it's either an AK-74M or AK-101. --[[User:Chablar|Chablar]] 13:45, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

== M240G is M240B ==

The M240G is actually a M240B as seen by gameplay screenshots. You can also identify it's M240B by the heat shield. I guess that inaccuracy in every war game (including new games) will always be. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:44, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

:I knew it was some kind of M240 variant, but since it was being used by a Marine I assumed it was the 240-Golf variant since they typically use that instead of the 240-Bravo. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:26, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Wrong use of the word "anachronistic" there. An anachronism is an object, event, or person portrayed in a chronologically inaccurate time period. The Marines using the M240B is a mistake, no doubt, but it's not an anachronism as the M240B still does technically ''exist'' at the same time beside the Golf model. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

== M16A4? ==

Got these pics off BF3 nation;
http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf1.jpg appears to be some M16 varient which oddly enough doesnt have any rear sights.
http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf5.jpg Another shot of the M16 like weapon (Just going to mention the nice detail on the mag). And hey, new weapon, A COFFEE MUG!!!
--[[User:GunGunGun|GunGunGun]] 15:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

It is an M16A4, the developers probably didn't detailed the weapon enough. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 16:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

:Yeah I noticed this as well. Im guessing they just forgot, The sights are even not there in the gameplay videos. I do hope they change it though, might seen a little silly firing with neither iron sights or optics. --[[User:Chablar|Chablar]] 13:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

in the new 12 min trailer, roughly at the 7min mark when they put surpessive fire on the sniper, is it me or does the guy on the left, with the M16A4 fire full auto?. [[User:Sike|Sike]] 17:20, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

I'm commenting without checking, but remember how fast you can fire the M16A4 and 93R in BC2? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:23, 19 April 2011 (CDT)

== Racking charging handle when reloading after empty ==

A new trailer showed you shooting an M4 and when you are empty, you reload but instead of pressing the bolt release, you charge the handle. I seriously hope this isn't the default reload [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

At the begining of the trailer, it did say that it was pre-alpha code. They'll hopefully have the modeling and other animations fixed by then.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 05:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, cause I'm getting bad flashbacks to games in early 2000 that pulls the charging handle when doing mid mag reloads [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:31, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the M16A2 & M4A1 reloading animations from ''[[Battlefield 2|BF2]]'' had the character use the charging handle instead of the bolt release when reloading, they may have borrowed that. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:58, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

:3D modeling and animation is kinda hard to "borrow" from older engine/file format. I'd guess it's probably "director thinks this looks more dynamic" like [[Black]], or maybe the animator is under heavy influence of games in early 2000 :/ [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 02:43, 12 April 2011 (CDT)

Well I hope they change it to using bolt release because it's wield for someone to do that unless you're clearing a malfunction [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm liking how they now keep track of a round in the chamber and you don't go through the whole reloading animation, maybe this time we'll have proper pistol reloads.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

What's a "proper" pistol reload? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:21, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
: I think he meant that the slide does not lock back when the pistol runs out, like in Medal Of Honor MP. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 20:43, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Also in Bad Company and the second one they did the same thing where the slide didn't lock back. If it's one thing Modern Warfare has done right is the reload animation...well except maybe for the ACR. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:14, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
:There was also a problem with the SPAS-12: the character pump it after the reload even if there was a shell in the chamber. Same in Black Ops. Not to mention that "all pistols were DAO" since the hammers never move. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

About reloads, in last years Metal of Honor, you do a combat reload when your shotgun is empty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:15, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Another nice touch that they put in was that they left the front sight on the M4 even though it has an optical sight. In most games the front sight is either removed completely (like Bad Company 2 or Call of Duty 4) or else it has a flip down front sight (like Modern Warfare 2). Adds a nice level of realism in my opinion.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:29, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

:I always thought removing the front sight from M4/M16 rifles in games was utterly stupid mall ninja BS, not to mention making the gun look ugly as sin. In a real-world situation, if your optic fails and you don't have any iron sights to fall back on, you're basically SOL while the other guy who's never even heard of a red dot sight is still capable of sending rounds your way. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:48, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

::Don't some optics already mount back-up irons (BUS / BUIS) on them? [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:46, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

:Yeah I noticed this too. All BF games seem to get reloads completely wrong. You get the feeling the make you rack the charging handle with a mid mag reload to clear the current round so they don't have to take it into account. As awesome as charging the action yourself, or racking the top slide looks, you just never do it during a normal reload. I do hope they change this yeah, but I doubt they will looking back at the other games. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Battlefield games, but I don't see how its that hard to get weapons right when they hire Ex-military guys to get everything else right. You can even find these things on Google these days. And with COD removing the iron sights on the M16s and M4s they are also removing the gas block. The gun would have to fire one round and then the action be charged manually. I love these games, but some times the ignorance they show towards the things they claim are most important pisses me off a bit.--[[User:Chablar|Chablar]] 14:00, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

::Well, at least they don't go the extra mile and have guns being fired with the safety on, I can think of a couple of games that do that. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 14:08, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

:The use of military and ex-military people are for realistic look of the soldiers, their movements, they communications, and look of ground vehicles and aircraft... But don't forget that it is not that hard to search for photos in the internet of weapons, vehicles, aircraft, uniforms, equipment, etc. and create it in the computer, without using the help of the military guys. As what we see know. BF3 goes for the realistic way, that's right, but it is not realistic in the small details. CoD4:MW, CoD:MW2, CoD:BO, the new MoH, OFP series, ArmA series, and of course the series of BF from BF2 and onwards have so many unrealistic small details that can be fixed easily by using mod tools. The developers doesn't really care if the M4A1 has gas block (CoD) or if you charge the weapon with the charging handle (BF2, BF3), they just want to create a game, realistic or not just the gamers will be happy. It is a bit funny as so many things are so realistic in this game but someone who has good military knowledge will notice right away for the f*** ups. In OFP:RR for example, they only thing that bothers me is that the M16A4 in-game looks like the Canadian C7 rifle. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 18:50, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

don't forget in MW2, fans were commenting that the rear flip up sight on the SCAR was backwards and would back towards the shooter and not forward. IW didn't change it cause they don't care of the little details. Also I like to see a game where they have a random chance to destroy your optic so can you actually can flip up your irons. After the EMP in MW2, they forgot that pretty much all the M4s and SCARS had flip up sights but none of them bothered to flip them up. That'll be the first thing I noticed when I aim or the fact that the ACOG is not electronic and would still work when an EMP hits. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:43, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

*Let's not forget MW2 is the same game which showed the Model 1887 being reloaded by having every cartridge put into the barrel. Would certainly make for an interesting first shot... [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 19:58, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

::In the words of the Demo Man from ''[[Team Fortress 2]]'', "Ka-BOOM!" :P [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 20:18, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

New behind-the-scenes footage reveals that there are partial reload animations --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:16, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

I liked how ''[[Project Reality]]'' completely replaced the M16/M4 reload animation from ''BF2''; the only time the charging handle is messed with is when you first bring the weapon up, and even then it's more of a brass check than a full pull back. The reloading animation has you swap the mags, hit the bolt release, and check the ejection port. Much more realistic reloading animation. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:03, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

What I wish is adding different animation for reloads. If you are in the middle of an intense fire fight, you reload and press the bolt faster and you randomly fumble with your reload cause it happens. Or if the firefight is over, you do a more slow reload. Also if the gun has flip up sights, I want to see an animation where you actually flip those irons up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:02, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:I don't think I'd be happy with the former; same as random jams or giving singleplayer enemies a chance of getting an instakill headshot on the player, it isn't much fun having the game secretly flipping a coin to decide if you get screwed or not. ''Black'' did slower reloads if you weren't being fired at, though; it either sped the whole animation up or skipped the unnecessary wanking around if you were being shot at when you pressed reload. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:50, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

Another thing about leaving the front sight post on the M4s is that the red dot sight is raised and not like in COD4 where it is mounted on the rail. Maybe in real life, having 2 eyes would sort of work, but even then you can still have a front post bother your eye looking at it. It wouldn't be a clear shot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:04, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:The only game I've seen that gets it all right is Crysis 2, and the weapons are all fictional, though they could all easily exist. It's got both reload animations (six actually, because you do them different in Armour or Stealth mode), +1 in the chamber, attachments on your gun based on where they're mounted (one optic, a suppressor or no suppressor, and an underbarrel), believable damages based on calibres, functioning pistol hammers, and pistol slides that lock back when empty and not as part of the reload animation (meaning you can run around and stuff with a locked empty pistol). [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:02, 16 March 2011 (CDT)

== PKM ==

At the left on the bridge an enemy soldier have a Pkm machine gun :
http://www.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Battlefield3_Gogogo.jpg (high resolution sorry) [[User:Arrak|Arrak]]
:PKP

== Disable Vehicles ==

New info at Kotaku and others mentions "Temporarily disabling vehicles". I'm thinking it may be some sort of EMP thing, though, even for BF that's a stretch. What would be preferable, is if for instance... a tank... had several parts that were damageable. Things like treads, optics, engines, etc could be disabled in order to halt a tank. Same goes with tires and stuff like that with other vehicles. This'd be really cool in my opinion, for instance, snipers could damage the optics of a tank with say a .50 BMG round, temporarily of course. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:23, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

== M16 Carry Handle Fix ==

If anybody's seen the EA PWNED BF3 episode, it looks like they've added the carry handle to the M16A4. Two short clips demonstrating the ANT animation system that show the M16A4 with it. Good stuff. Also, did anyone notice how they're making prone realistic? It seems they're having the player's elbows be fixed rotateable spots along with the player's spine being able to bend a certain number of degrees. In order to rotate around, the player has to physically crawl over to view that area. It's easy to see in the animation demos that I referred to, but it's also noticeable on the 12 minute trailer when the Marines are on the rooftop, watch the perspective of the player's weapon and how it moves in relation to the arms. Very cool indeed, because I know balancing prone has always been a problem with BF. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:15, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

== Multiplayer Teaser ==

there is a MP teaser up on www.origin.com, looks like they have gone and screwed the m4 up, (removed front site) [[User:Sike|Sike]] 16:22, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Can't get a good enough look at the gas block to tell. Anywho... I spotted the M16A4, a Mk 46/M249, M9 pistol, the PKM Pencheng, SVD, Mk 11/SR-25 (Not a M110, no full URX rail), AKS-74, and the Grach pistol. All but the SVD and Grach are viewable in the trailer, the AKS-74, SVD, and Grach are visible in the corner where it lists the kills. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:36, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-battlefield-3/714884 pause at 0:19 for the M4, [[User:Sike|Sike]] 16:42, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The AKS-74U screenshot shows what appears to be an enemy carrying two [[RPG-7]] launchers. Can't tell if they have optics or straight iron sights. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:56, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== Who? ==

Who put the Mk 11 as the 9A-91? Travesty, stoked that the Mk 11 is in though. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:30, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74M ==

This photo was posted on battlefields facebook page.

[[File:BF3_IMFDB_(AK-74).JPG]]

It seems that while the US gets an M-4A1 with and without optics, the Russians/PLR get an AK-74M.
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:54, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

This might've just been the loadouts they had for E3, doesn't necessarily confirm faction specific weaponry. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:00, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Is that PSO-1 or the same unidentified sight from Medal of Honor? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:31, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

They modelled receiver lid locking knob wrongly. Should be like [http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/photoshooter/708/i-711.jpg this]

== Physical Warfare Pack ==

New weapons, folks!

[http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com/content.php?4305-Battlefield-3-Limited-Edition-Physical-Warfare-Pack-Available-for-Preorder-in-UK Battlefield 3 Limited Edition: Physical Warfare Pack Available for Preorder in UK]

Time for article update? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:08, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:I see they're calling it the DAO-12 again. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:Type 88 (and it seems the Bipod is an attachment), "DAO-12" lol, with Flechette ammo, aaaaaaaand... a Flash Suppressor for the "SKS Sniper Rifle"!!!! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::"SKS Sniper Rifle?" So we're set in California? Watch out, the bad guys have high-capacity 15-round magazines! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:56, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Isn't the SKS 10 rounds though? I never really liked the look of the SKS, but I've seen a lot of people on this site post about wanting it in a game for once, so it'll make all them happy :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, I'm just talking generally; you know, scary handguns with high-capacity magazines and laws to rid the streets of the scourge of drive-by rifle grenadings and gangland bayonet charges. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::::Haha, yeah, I'm from Canada, and while we don't actually have as strict laws as, say, California, what we have is lots of paperwork and time spent training for licenses, etc. Making them harder to get and needing more knowledge about them is way better than just banning them. I never understood that, oooo, a bayonet mount, oh no! A pistol grip? They'll kill us so much more efficiently now! Criminals use illegally bought weapons that aren't registered. And that guy that comes home to find his wife is cheating on him? He's so mad he'll kill both of them, and they think he won't just get a knife or something? I'm not supporting killing people, but people would still do it even if all the firearms on Earth went away. We were pretty damn good at it for the thousands of years before we invented them... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:36, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::::::Agreed :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:26, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Still no update? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:16, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

'laws to rid the streets of the scourge of drive-by rifle grenadings' - I lol'd --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Why in the hell would they make the SKS a 'Sniper Rifle'? I mean calling the Dragunov a true sniper rifle is pretty much... wrong, I'm okay with it though, but an SKS?
I'll admit I'm not very experienced with the SKS myself, maybe it's a tack driver in disguise, but from what I've heard it's just a little more accurate than your standard AK47 and that's not saying much.... --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 12:56, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:Well there are only going to be semi-auto sniper rifles, so really, there are only DMRs anyway. It's not like it's a sniper class, it's a recon class, so that's not missnamed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:59, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Source? There's no way they'd make all the sniper rifles semi-automatic. We've only seen semi-automatics, yes, but there's no confirmation that they'll -all- be semi-automatic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:09, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:That's what I got out of the Recon description here:
http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2011/06/08/battlefield-3-at-e3-roundup.aspx
Semi-auto and C4. That could just mean default, and you still get bolt-actions and the mortar later, but I really think they mean they removed both of those, to balance the issues with those two things in BC2. Everyone uses Recon, everyone hides with a one hit kill sniper rifle, and everyone calls in their magic mortars from anywhere onto anything. It looks like they're trying to make the Recon kit more of a DMR kit than a true sniper, which is probably better, it fits the squad play better as a DMR and a support gunner do the same job, one with high amounts of precision, the other with high amounts of ammo. On a different note, I'm pretty sure the M4A1 will be in the engineer kit because it has a flashlight and will be the counterpart to the AKS-74U, like the M16A4 and AK-74M. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:36, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

: They meant at the E3 demo, the Recon class has a semi-automatic sniper rifle. At the E3 Demo. Hence the "E3 Roundup" title, it's not dismissing anything, just saying what they saw at E3. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:47, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Finally :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:12, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

== M249 SAW is actually Mk. 46 Mod 0? ==

By looking at the handgurads, I noticed that they are sticking out like the Mk. 46 Mod 0's handguards instead of the flat M249 SAW's heatshield. Also, because the weapon is fitted with M145 ECLAN scope, this could be the same model as in Medal of Honor, only it is rendered differently or something like that to fit Battlefield 3's engine. So, could be? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

: Yep, it's for sure the Mk 46. Though, it's all one nacho. Glad with the weapon choices they're going with so far. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:34, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

Glad to see the M145 MGO, presumably in place of the ACOG. Nice touch. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Yep, there's also some speculation that there'll be multiple types of 4x optics for each weapon, like you could put the Elcan on an M4. But I think it's more likely that each weapon will just have a different model of ACOG-type optic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 08:27, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

:If that's the case, I'm putting the ELCAN on the M16A4, and if there's camo I'm making it green :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:08, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

::Canadian, eh? :P --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Yup ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:12, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

The quality of the screenshot is too low to tell if it's an M249 or a Mark 46. The key difference between the two is that the M249 has a magazine well on the side of the receiver for using M16 mags, but the Mark 46 doesn't. You can't really tell if the SAW in this game has a mag well or not. I also want to point out that the SAW in MoH has a magazine well, which would make it an M249. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:06, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== P90 in IGN preview ==

here

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/117/1172554/battlefield-3-20110606090440594-000.jpg

the magazine looks like its either missing or modeled way to small

source http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/117/1172554p1.html

sorry i dont know how to embed an image [[User:Sike|Sike]] 07:54, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

there's a clear model error...the magazine is lodged inside the weapon at an angle and the charging handles are floating above the magazine in midair.
however, the magazine looks like its of appropriate size and its transparent....would be a nice touch if the bullets inside would actually be visible and move.

May perhaps point to an extended magazines type system, though you'd expect the studio to realise that the P90 feeds from the rear so this wouldn't function --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:09, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

There are Extended Magazines, you can see them in the loadout window in some of the E3 footage on a PKP Pecheneg. But, what the P90 is likely, is just a pre-alpha mess-up. The magazine is there and properly sized, its' just angled downward into the weapon/barrel. It's not married properly to the P90 and is likely just a glitch that will be fixed. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 08:29, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Fair enough, pretty cool that things such as extended magazines have made it into BF3 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:22, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==

I just saw the latest video where the M4A1 had a holo-sight and the gas block was removed. Looks like this will be just another unrealistic game after all. But at least the character pressed the BCRB instead of pulling the charging handle. Damn it, when will a new Rainbow Six game come out?! - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:38, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

It's not a big deal. The M4A1 still kills people and looks great. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:I might be a bit annoying to have every game M4 lose its gas block, but it really doesn't matter THAT much, and it makes the scope view clearer. To say that it will be "just another unrealistic game" because of that is silly, just pretend it has one of those super mini gas blocks, you wouldn't even be able to see it anyway. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:57, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:: The problem is that I don't want to have a clear view because soldiers do not have clear view ALL the time. And there is a nice little thing called "flat-top riser". One might wonder why was it invented.... - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:07, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:But they're ugly and no one uses them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:45, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:Would be cool if removing gas block was optional and made gun bolt-action. Talk about killing with skill :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::Bolt-action sniper rifles will be usable without scopes.

== Some Weapon Spots ==

(Continuously updated) This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwT6x7zEQ8c) shows on the kill-feed that the SVD makes a return for Battlefield 3 at 2:20. At 3:48 you see an enemy in the engineer class holding what appears to be an RPG-7 at 3:48. The kill-feed shows at 4:06 a MP-443 pistol. Clear look at an RPG-7 with on the back of an enemy soldier with the rocket (quite dangerously) inserted at 6:03 and again at 7:23. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 16:32, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

== Team Specific Weapons? ==

Looking at the AKS-74U pictures it looks scarily like that's a US Marine using it on Spetsnaz. As far as I know there'll be unlockables and selectable weapons, but does anyone know if these are team specific or not? I'm personally pretty worried we're going to have a bunch of marines in state of the art gear running around with AK rifles because a bunch of bars say they're the best, or PLR using M4s and 249's, that's as bad, if not worse. --[[User:AmrasCalmacil|AmrasCalmacil]] 17:26, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:That's only in MP, it's the same as Bad Company 2, I never liked being restricted to team weapons im MP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

:The player could've picked the weapon up... We don't know for sure about faction specific loadouts. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 23:54, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::I personally liked the faction specific loadouts in BF2, it was realistic. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:True, to be honest I'd be happy either way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:49, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope they bring back faction specific weapons from Battlefield 2. Medal of Honor made it right at first but then you got the opposing faction's guns and faction-specificness pretty much lost its purpose :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

::But in BF2 if you killed a enemy you can pick up his "kit" and use his weapons... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:08, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Yes, first you had to kill an enemy, then you could pick his stuff (kit). But for Battlefield 3 it should be weapon (more realistic than insta-crossdressing xD ) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:12, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::::Your right, lol. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:25, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Actually in BC2 your character model never changed when you swaped kits, you could have a medic carrying a sniper rifle, or a ghillie guy with an RPG-7. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::::Ah right, I forgot. :\
:::::Lol, you forgot about rocket launcher-wielding snipers ;) Hey, we should put a pic of that under the rocket section or something, you know, just for kicks. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:05, 20 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::lol yeah. The reason I don't remember is because I only played with bots, I only had Dial-up back then. u_u - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:34, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

I hope its not side specific, I always hated that considering how two weapons from the same class where completely different and handled different. Most people would end up using unlocked guns that you can use on either side. If you want a game thats realistic as possible, play Operation Flashpoint.

:Being a fan of Battlefield 2, which featured faction specific weapons, I'm offended someone is saying me to play another game. I might as well say: If you want a game thats unrealistic as possible, play Call of Duty. By the way, in Medal of Honor opposing factions' weapons had identical stats, so that wouldn't be a problem for Battlefield 3 (probably). Also, sign your posts (paragraphs?) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

::Well since OpFor is using a AK-74M and AKS-74U which is some-what comparable to the M16A4 and M4A1, I say the game is gonna be fairly balanced. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
::: If they use weapon balance from MoH then yes. Because in BF2 M16A2 and M4A1 kinda sucked (better use G36E and SCAR-L unlocks, respectively). However AK-101 and AKS-74U were ''nice'' (damage)! Check their stats here: [http://wiki.bf2s.com/weapons/comparison BF2 Weapons Comparison] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

:^^But those games kinda sucked (at least Dragon Rising, Red River looks good). :\ Whatever, I personally like faction specific weapons for my reasons above. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:27, 22 June 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, Dragon Rising didn't suck, it was just buggy and laggy (which can be said about pretty much every other shooter, at least as start) and didn't have weapon customization (which can be said about Battlefield 2). In my opinion it is Red River which sucked, basically being Co-op CoD:MW with Visible Walls of Block being replaced by Invisible Walls of Doom and auto regeneration being replaced by manual healing. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, that's why I said ''kinda'' sucky, lol I heard AAII is much worst, as its severely buggy and lacks weapon animations and others. P.S. I prefer manual healing over mutant regenerating health any day, the only place 3 second regenerating health belongs is a Wolverine game. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
::::To be honest, manual healing in Red River isn't ''that'' much different from auto regeneration: hold "use" key while not getting hit and several seconds later you are good to go. Whether Dragon Rising had an actual Medic class just like Battlefield :) Oh, and it's kinda hard to make complex game without ''a lot'' of technical problems and unfinished things, yes ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, if you want actual realism at this point, you go ArmA 2, not Operation Flashpoint: We-screwed-over-an-already-great-franchise-by-making-a-game-with-casual-gamers-in-mind[[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] 03:06, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
:If you want actual realism at this point, you go to Army. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

::Ugh, But ArmA II had NO weapon animations, that's kinda a big "unfinished thing" when you publish the game! And you Mr. Masterius, your obnoxious, why don't ''you'' go join the Army. We're talking about wanting realistic combat games not what peoples career decisions should be. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:04, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Mr. Wolf, one thing you should realise: until Virtual Reality is created and gone into mass production, games will never, NEVER be trully realistic. Holding gun in your hands =\= Mouse+Keyboard. Also, mine is not obnoxious, mine is very nice and tidy :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

::::And what's so wrong with wanting realism in "Mouse+Keyboard" games? Also I have handled, extensively trained, and fired many REAL firearms, so I'm not just some armchair-commando or a mall-ninja. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

:Eventually FPSs will be the player wearing a mocap suit with a mocap gun, in a mocap room with a floor that moves (like a treadmill) so you can run places. And you will be forced to reload the weapon properly etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::The first steps are made :D [http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/xio-ultimate-fps-virtual-reality-gaming-exoskeleton-prototype-video-21-04-2011/ XIO Gaming VR Simulator Prototype] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:54, 25 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I'd settle for having a decent field of view, right now. They're actually getting narrower rather than wider as the gun attempts to colonise roughly a quarter of the screen. Kinda sad when the guy in ''Doom'' held his pistol in a more sensible way than the guy in ''Crysis 2'' does; the latter seems to be holding it with the base of his right palm rested against his nose. Sure, we're not all going to own an IMAX globe theatre any time soon to have a full 180 degrees or so of vision, but it gets silly when your FOV is ~30 degrees these days when most of the old shooters did 70-90. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:I removed your post? Maybe we both tried to edit at the same time, because it wasn't there when I did, sorry about that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:34, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Lol @ me. Should have known someone was going to say that... Should have added "In a Video game"... [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] 08:00, 25 June 2011 (CDT)
:Right 8) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:51, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

::It's alright, danke. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:31, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

==More Stuff==
Maybe. I didn't see anything listed here that we don't have, but they seem to know what they're talking about. (Near the bottom)
http://enterbf3.com/
[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:17, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

== Barrett MRAD/98B spotted ==

Taken from the "Classes Explained" screenshot...

[http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x80/cowboyw54/Bf3render.jpg]

source:
[http://bf3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bf3-classes.jpg]

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 18:07, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Cool, I'd never heard of that rifle before, looks like a good addition. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like they call Picatinny Railed M16A4 '''M16A2''' ''again'' *facepalm*. Oh, and that's a weird sniper rifle. Don't they have '''M110''' for that?
:P.S. And yeah, same goes for '''DAO-12''' (Armsel Striker, duh!). But I would prefer '''Armsel Protecta''' (it's more modern after all ;) ) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:01, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
::Actually they are calling it '''M-16a2'''... nuff said! - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:14, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
:::If it was called "Blarg Rifle" but had correct reloads, I'd be happy. Where did it say they called it an A2 anyway? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:03, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
::::[http://bf3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bf3-classes.jpg here] [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:50, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::Oh right, well, it might say "M-16a2", but it calls the MRAD a "Mk. II" Sniper Rifle, so, we'll see. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Well I think that the "Mk. II" is the Mk II Mod 0 (SR-25), and that they just threw the text on there because the Mk II will be the default Recon rifle.
Anyways, I think this 99% confirms that it will be in the game, should it be added to the main page?
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:28, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:OH Mk.11, I thought it said Mk.2, and I couldn't figure out what the hell that would be. Yeah, we've seen the SR-25 already in that multiplayer footage, and everything in that video was default. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

So MoH had the M110 when it should have had the Mark 11, but BF3 now has the Mark 11 when it should have the M110 (USMC recently dropped the Mark 11 in favor of the M110)? *Facepalm* [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:27, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:Indeed. Another thing about MoH is that apparently Mark 14 Mod 0 got finished in 2003 and got shipped to Navy SEALs in 2004[http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=377] thus making it as chronologically incorrect as M110. Devs usually tend to skip the details. Still, the crown of ignorance goes to CoD brand. The latest MW3 seems to have customized AK-47 *Major Facepalm* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:39, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

==Notes about in-game ACOG scopes==

I noticed that there seem to be two separate models of ACOG scopes available in the game, according to the screenshots posted in the article. The M4A1 carbine the player character uses in the 'Faultline' trailer is fitted with a camo-painted TA01NSN ACOG(identifiable by the integral iron sights and lack of a fiber-optic strip along the top) while one of the M16A4's shown in first-person view in the article here is equipped with a TA31F ACOG. This is the second FPS game I've seen to do this, the other being ''[[Project Reality]]'' (itself a mod of ''[[Battlefield 2]]'', coincidentally) which has the TA31F and TA31RCO ACOG models available in it. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:44, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:...While in the average FPS, you're lucky if the thing called the ACOG looks like anything in Trijicon's product line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:47, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Making the public in general think every scope is called an ACOG :P Also, in terms of 4x sights, theres the M249s ELCAN, and I'm hoping you can put any optic on anything. One of the DICE guys said there's a crazy amount of optics in BF3. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:26, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Even in COD: Black Ops (a game that takes place in the 60s mind you) they have a scope called a ACOG, even though it's obviously ''not'' a ACOG *rolls eyes*. Game Devs are becoming fails more and more every year. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:08, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Treyarch basically made their own Modern Warfare, with blackjack and hookers. So yeah, forget about proper portray of Cold War. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:41, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Give me the ability to slap the Elcan onto the M240 and I will be happy. Hope what you said about the 'crazy amount of optics' turns out to be true. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:34, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I hope you're not confusing the ELCAN scope with the similar M145 MGO. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 12:05, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::::You are correct, I did mean the MGO. I know the M145 is different, I just though the Elcan name was interchangeable. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:15, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::It would be nice to see a broader array of optics customizations in FPS games. ''Project Reality'' has a pretty good variety, but you have to switch out your entire class loadout in order to change this, and most weapons only have 1 or 2 optics available aside from iron sights (the M4A1 has the widest variety; having available EOTech, M68 Aimpoint, Kimber Mepro, & ITL MARS red dots as well as both TA31F & TA31RCO ACOGs as mentioned above). [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 12:05, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Now, that Project Reality has been mentioned... I hope DICE won't disappoint the CIS players, so that we can kick yer capitalist arses in proper way... j/k lol :P Anyway, here are the articles for those interested: [http://ra.spetsnaz.su/wiki/1P29 for AK-74M] and [http://ra.spetsnaz.su/wiki/PKP for PKP]. And the [http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/sights_for_small_arms/ full catalog]. Oh, and it's been suggested on [http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3/1405448-optics-lots-optics-2.html#post19418223 EA's Forums], so I don't have to do it myself. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:24, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

== Mocap Guns ==
Here's a challenge for everyone; what are the two wire guns standing in for?

2nd Story
http://www.enterbf3.com/

Or if it's off the list after a while:
http://media.enterbf3.com/images/mcnab1.jpg
http://media.enterbf3.com/images/mcnab2.jpg [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:29, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

Cornershot and a Thompson with M203? :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:35, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

:lolz. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:51, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

More seriously, that thing McNab has is definately supposed to be a carbine with an underbarrel accessory, I can't really see what else it could be. The other guy's weapon is a bit more of a mystery; since it doesn't have any kind of projection for a magazine, I'd guess it's something like a Bizon; can't be a P90, these rigs are for capturing hand positions and his would be completely wrong for that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:36, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, actually it does have a magazine, I see a curved MP5-style mag just in front of his finger. So, maybe it's an MP5 with some underbarrel device making the front end all chunky, or one of those MP10 things like in GTAIV. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:40, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

LOL Tommy with M203 :) The one on the right really looks like an M14 EBR to me, the mag, handguard, and barrel, but the other one is weird. It looks like an MP5 pistol grip and mag, with a really bulky front, and a stock that looks familiar, bu I just can't place. :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:09, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

: [http://riflestocks.com/store/product2.html ACE side-folding skeleton stock]? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:48, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, that's the one! Hmm, is there anything in particular that's on, aftermarket or otherwise? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:29, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Quick google gets me mostly AK-pattern weapons. AK, Saiga, Galil, that kind of thing. Couple on MACs, not that it's likely to be one of those. Maybe that's what a MoCap AKS-74U looks like? :s [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:36, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I'd say that's the best guess so far [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:13, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Dunno, such a stock shape reminds me of [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:G36.jpg G36E] which was in Battlefield 2 (with railz instead of optics). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:35, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Not sure about that, you'd have thought if it was G36E the mocap prop would have a rod or something stuck to the end to represent the rest of the barrel like the one McNab has. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:44, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Bah, I am not really into guessing the gun by the mocap. Details of it - OK, but generally it's just a mishmash that can be used for anything provided the grip is adequate xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:51, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

Actually the ACE stock is found on the SPAS 15 as well (which was in Bad Company 1, and Battlefield 2 I think) probably the most likely choice. --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 18:48, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

:I hope it's that, that was the ONLY weapon that didn't come back in BC2 for some reason. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:44, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

::But it returned in [[Battlefield Play4Free#Franchi SPAS-15|Battlefield Play4Free]] so its appearance in BF3 is possible ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 23:20, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 17 unlock spotted ==

... in a promotional shot from Dice about their Battlelog service

[http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/resized-image.ashx/__size/550x599/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/2.jpg]

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 13:02, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

:It was also seen in the EA Pwned video, along with the G3 (mentioned), I forgot to add that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:06, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

::I hope this Glock 17 actually holds... well... 17 rounds. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:24, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, the MP-443 does, so that could work, I'm thinking there's gonna be a Euro faction, with the Glock as the sidearm, and we've also seen the P90. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:17, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Now that reminds me... Battlefield 2: Modern Combat (console version of Battlefield 2) had [[ Battlefield 2: Modern Combat#Glock 17 Pistol|Glock 17]] as Euro Sidearm :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:44, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::It did? Awesome! I was just guessing, but that basically confirms it :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:54, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Here's some leaked gameplay for you guys, skip to 1:44, there's your Glock. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfeOoEDYEt0) Would appear that the sidearms (at least) are not faction specific. Also looks like it holds 18 rounds but I'm assuming this is a '+1' affair. [[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:00, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Melee Animation is good :D Reloading after every bullet isn't :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:48, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Alpha Footage ==

no doubt some of you have heard there is a closed alpha trial going on, and some of you may have watched the leaked footage online. i dont want to post links to these videos just incase its not aloud.
but i can tell you, that the G36c, Glock 17, M27 IAR, SV98, MP7 and M1014 are in. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 08:24, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:Closed Alpha? Any news about Closed Beta for MoH: Limited Edition owners? It should be before Open Beta, shouldn't it? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:41, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:A pretty nice selection of weapons appearing which is good to see, particularly the M27. Now just need someone to spot the L85 and I'll be happy \o/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:19, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::I guess it, Russian counterpart to M27 is going to be RPK-74M :O And British - L86? ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:41, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::You may possibly be right, and I hope you are. If it's in there, first person to deliver the information wins a shiny medal from myself :o --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:48, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::looks like US support starts with the M27, and the Russians start with RPK, british forces arent in the game... --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 13:58, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::The existence of other factions hasn't been denied (to my knowledge) but even so I hope either weapon is available --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:02, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Germans aren't in the game and there's a G36C. We can't rule anything out. Plus, there's always the possibility of DLC. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:31, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::New factions/weapons added via DLC would be grand. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:50, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::Yeah, like they did with Euro Forces Pack for Battlefield 2 :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:37, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:I've yanked the images off the page; as with the MW3 stuff, posting images from leaks is not allowed. Wait until they show up in something official. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:16, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::Why does it even matter? We should post everything about everything we know... :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:36, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Same reason we don't allow pirated or leaked movie footage; using that kind of thing reflects badly on the site. We can wait until these weapons are confirmed in official materials (which they will be in due course, I'm sure), we don't need to go using dubious sources. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:39, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, for a sec it slipped my mind that once the game is out we will have everything :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::And there are still screencaps from leaked version :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:37, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Which ones? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:30, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::The ones added by Gran28 - check page history. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:41, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Oh, I thought where he said "Paris gameplay video" he was talking about a gameplay video released at some show in Paris. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:49, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::The ones that I added was from a gameplay trailer released by DICE yesterday I think.--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 08:04, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Ah, if that's so, then my bad. Kinda hard to separate official ones from current leaks. Better mention that on the talk page :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:28, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== New Official MP Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emwEknzmyRo

can see a M4 with a Eotech and a Acog, and the front site is in when optics are attached.--[[User:Sike|Sike]] 08:32, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Possible return of the NDM-86 ==
I was watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MgQMoPwGwM&feature=related and around 1:13-14, I thought I saw the pattern found on the straight mags that the 7.62mm NATO variant of the NDM-86 uses.
EDIT: Okay at 1:15 at the maximum quality, I could clearly see that magazine is straight. This is no SVD guys, no SVD. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 18:09, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:Good spot, wouldn't have noticed that myself. I wonder why they opted for the NDM-86 instead of the SVD? I assume the SVD is harder to get in Sweden meaning the studio had to find an alternative. Is it still labeled as an SVD within the game? --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:52, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::It is, and it was in MoH. You know, I think MoH was like a super pre-Alpha version of this game, there's and MP7 too, and a few others. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:03, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I hope DICE do a better job on BF3 than they did on MoH, that game was shocking. There's probably some truth in that though :P --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:43, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Well, MoH multi was made by a small team from DICE in 6-7 months, and ALL of DICE has been working on BF3 for, like, 5 years, I'm not worried ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:52, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Fair play to them but you'd have thought issues with the game would have been patched following the game's release. Still, I don't deny that BF3 will be a far better game however I'm sure some of the issues from MoH will poke through. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Well, we can hope the issues that poke through don't include those godawful skyboxes that MoH had. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:26, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::DICE deliberately sabotaged MoH MP 'cause they were focused on BC2... :( But it is said that MoH 2 is being developed solely by DC. And it is rumored that MoH 2 will have Frostbite 2 Engine :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:50, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Would be interesting to see what DC do with the Frostbite 2 engine, I wasn't all that impressed with the single player but taking into account that (as far as I'm aware) MoH was the studio's first game, it was an adequate effort. Was better than the multiplayer at least, in my opinion. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:20, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I've always said that if MoH's MP was the same as it SP, then the MP would be awesome, I have it just for the SP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:35, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Just played some more of SP and I have to say I agree, pretty intense stuff. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:38, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Default Weapons ==
I just noticed that all of the US weapons are Armalites, and all of the Russian weapons are Kalashnikovs, it's cool. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:58, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:Aside from the 'SVD' which isn't a Kalashnikov design, but we'll forgive you as it is outwardly similar. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:16, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::True, but you got the point ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::[http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/sniper/sn18/svd_clones.jpg SVD Clones]. The third one is AK modified to SVD. Ain't Russian guns :P --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:58, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I do like the fact that each faction has it's own starting weaponry, I always liked that about BF2 (though I didn't play it much) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:25, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Agreed :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:58, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== AS Val ==
I can't find the video, but I'll post a link: http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/7447261.page [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:31, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:20, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Sniper Rifles can have iron sights ==
Yup. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:04, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:Hmmm. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:56, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

== M1014 ==
It's hard to tell because of the screwed up animation in the alpha, but you load a round into the chamber first, then the tube. EDIT: This is a good thing, I made sound like it wasn't :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:32, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

== M16A4 ==
It fires semi, burst, AND auto, one of those fancy 360 degree fire selects or something :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:32, 23 July 2011 (CDT)
:problem?

== New Alpha Gameplay ==

In the gameplay, I noticed that the front sights are still present when optics are attached, that M16A4 is now burst-fire and that the US LMG is called M249 in-game. Bipod gameplay was shown too. I also spotted the M-416 at 0:55, maybe the M4A1 equivalent of the enemy forces? [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:45, 24 July 2011 (CDT)

:Okay, yeah, they made it so the front sight is there, but disappears when aiming, the M16 has burst as well as auto (and semi), and the HK416 is an unlock, ONLY the default weapons are faction based, anyone can use unlocks, but the default ones might be usable by anyone later or something though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:42, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::That's still much better than the MW games. Boy, you complain more about games than I do. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:19, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::Defaults faction / unlocks not is how BFs 2 and 2142 worked, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:08, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not complaining, I actually like the front sight disappearing system, if it's not there the gun wouldn't work, but if it was, then having an RDS would give you a better field of view. The M16's fire modes aren't too bad, as long as the weapons have the right ammo count, reload properly, and have +1 I'm happy. Things like the player loading it fancy or whatever are okay. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

== M320 Standalone confirmed ==
This. Search "BF3 Grenade Launcher", and the vid has a G3 with an ACOG too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

== SIG 550 pretty much confirmed by Demize ==
http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/30377608852017152 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:Swiss weapon of choice 8) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== A Few Weapon Vids ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuoU7uBNvP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LILgS-M2xo

Here's most everything in action, and with a few attachments. I love how the description for the M145 mentions the Canadian Army! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:37, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:Looking good so far, spotted some people on my Steam friends list playing the alpha. So jealous. :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:43, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::I'm looking very forward to this game. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:42, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Video Confirms new weapons for the game, as available in alpha build. In the first video we see an MP-7 PDW at 1:14, M1911 pistol at 1:57, RPK light machinegun on killfeed at 3:21, M27 IAR in killfeed at 6:12, M1014 shotgun at 7:34, G3 battlerifle on killfeed at 8:29, G36c assault rifle at 12:15, M320 grenade launcher on killfeed at 13:16. In the 2nd video we see RPK selection and model at 6:07 (usage following). Someone please update main page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:32, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Good of you to find everything, but leaked stuff isn't going on the main page :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:25, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::: awww =(, thanks though.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:39, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Sigh, The M145 uses the M4 reticle over the M249/240 reticle :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:47, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::That's the reticle my (standard version) ELCAN replica has on my airsoft C7A2, do you mean the M145 version is supposed to have a different one? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:40, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::[http://www.dsarms.com/images/ELCM145M4W.gif Elcan M145 Optical Sight for M4 and M249/M240]. Remember people, this is just leaked Alpha and DICE will ''probably'' make changes to the game to make it right... Oh, and RPK :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:53, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Oh I see. And what do you mean, oh and the RPK? What's wrong with it? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:07, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::Has the wrong bipod at the moment, doesn't look like the barrel is long enough to be an RPK either --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:31, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::Well... since it has both synthetic furniture and curved magazine, it is [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/machine/mg15/rpkm.jpg RPKM] (ignore the magazine color). However in-game description mentions that it uses 5.45x39 ammo, which is used in [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/machine/mg16/rpk74_02.jpg RPK-74M] that is actually used by Russian Forces. So the point is, DICE should change the magazine model and rename the weapon to '''RPK-74M''' for Russians. That Militia can use whatever they want. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:36, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::I didn't know that, so the curvature of the magazine in an AK/RPK-style weapon can be used to identify the caliber? DICE have clearly given alpha invites to the wrong people, should have gone to the inhabitants of IMFDB. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:42, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::: :D And yeah. The curve gradation for Kalashnikovs' magazines goes as follows: 5.56 < 5.45 < 7.62, with 7.62 curve being particularly distinguishable ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::::You learn something new everyday, now I can complain that the BF3 RPK is incorrect >:O --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:33, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::I sent Demize a tweet (I made a Twitter accout JUST to send him stuff) that the RPK should be either the RPKM or RPK-74M (as I can't see the mags well enough), and also sent him another one saying the G3 should be the G3A3 :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::::That is dedication to informing the developer their game is wrong, well played. I also sent him a tweet concerning the M145's reticle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:30, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::::Very good :D Two problems I've noticed about '''SVD''': First, as already been noticed, is that in-game model of magazine is straight NATO one instead of curved Russian one; second, is that in-game '''PKS-07''' is using optical PSO-1 based reticle instead of its own magnified reflex reticle like this one: [http://www.newphillysports.com/milsurp/pks07reticle.jpg]. And here information about it: [http://www.gunscollecting.com/english/scopes/pks-07-collimating-sight/]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:24, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::::::Just recieved an invite to the alpha, I am so stoked to try this game out \o/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:44, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::::Sweet! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:56, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 spotted ==

I just watched a video and the 1911 is back. This game's version appears to be the MEU model. I can tell from the slide, sights, and hammer. It appears to be the old model with the Springfield Armory slide. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 23:53, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:I can't see the grips, but it appears to be a stock M1911 with a commander-style hammer (the round one, not the MEU one), a silver 3-hole trigger, and a silver barrel. Oh, after Googleing I found that that IS the original version of the MEU :/ http://www.justpistols.co.uk/meu_001.jpg That's an airsoft gun, but it's EXACTLY the one from BF3. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:35, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Also, the MEU Pistol is currently designated [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/24/m45-close-quarters-combat-pistol/ M45] Pistol ;) So maybe in-game it is some kind of customized M1911 Pistol? :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:36, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== Alpha ==
I just got the invite for the Operation Metro Alpha and Will post info here if I can.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 20:53, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Awesome, that's two of us now :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

::So my impressions of the alpha so far are largely positive, not the biggest fan of the map however. Too many narrow corridors that you have to enter to advance, meaning that the defending team can plonk a SAW there and wipe you out as you enter the meat grinder. The weapons feel nice: Plenty of recoil meaning that burst firing is essential. Definitely an improvement gameplay-wise compared to BC2, which wasn't a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. Looking forward to the beta now! \o/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:46, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Improvement compared to BC2, is obviously. The question is, improvement compared to BF2! :O--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:31, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I can't really comment on whether it's better than BF2 as I haven't really spent much time on it (5 mins max) but it is a fairly solid FPS in it's own right. One thing that has bothered me thus far is 3D spotting, do not like it at all though, it should be changed for minimap spotting. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:46, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Ah, in that case, if you still have BF2, I would recommend you download and install [http://www.realitymod.com/ Project Reality] mod, which focuses on realistic armed forces. There are people who have BF2 solely for it. And, it has British Army! :D [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/B_Uniform.png Their uniform] and [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/B_Weapons.png their weapons] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Yeah and the Canadian Army :D I'll be getting BF2/RM soon. Keep in mind this is one of the smallest map and it's meant to be more infantry focused, they'll be much bigger ones with more vehicles ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:10, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Yup :D [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/C_Uniform.png Their uniform] and [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/C_Weapons.png their weapons] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:49, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::I hope that with more vehicles comes more teammates actually willing to take them out. No one playing engineer was even trying, just using their launchers on each other. Meant to ask if anyone still played BF2 as I was gonna get it in anticipation for 3, should organise some gamz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::I'm trying to get BF2 again, loved that game, can't wait to convert it to PR. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:04, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Needs a bit of polish but what I played of the alpha was a lot of fun, roll on October --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:32, 1 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::Sweet! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::Anyone have any questions about it? I'd be happy to answer them (as best I can) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:27, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

== All Alpha weapons ==

http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/new-battlelog-screenshots-show-weapons-awards/battlelog-weapon-list/ - [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

:I hope, they will make new icons for AR-15 guns. These no-sights ones are just weird. Also, what I've said in "A Few Weapon Vids" --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:21, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

::The in-game ones have carry handles but I'm sure you knew this, I can live with a few slightly inaccurate icons on the Battlelog though. The M27 IAR had no front sight post for some reason in-game, made the Eotech pretty much essential. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:19, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Doesn't it have flip-up sights? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:43, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

::::It does, yes, but the front sight is missing the front sight post. As in, the sights are there, but the post is not. Made aiming quite tricky as you can imagine. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:34, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah, I'm assuming that's been fixed by now [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:15, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::I hope so, was a nightmare. Still, barely used the RPK/IAR once the SAW was unlocked --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 04:44, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Cause the SAW's a real support weapon ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:21, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::::^ This, though the fact that you can change the RPK and IAR to semi-auto was a nice feature --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:30, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Does IAR have better accuracy and SAW better firepower or SAW has ''both''? Because if it is the second one, IAR seems kinda... useless. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:35, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::For sure, the IAR/RPK are definitely more accurate than the SAW, the SAW is quite difficult to use at range without deploying the bipod whereas the other two don't have as much recoil. I assume the lighter support weapons are there for the more mobile, front-line support guy. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:18, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

Pretty sure this legit as another article is saying they're from OXM so should they be moved to the page and not discussion ? [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

== why aren't confirmed weapons named? ==
such as the g3 ,m416 ,m27 iar and many more????

:Can't put leaked stuff on the page, you'd know this if you read the rest of the discussion --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:21, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

::yeah thats why all the weapons used in the alpha were named in an official blog and yet there still not up here , so dont tell me i need to read the discussion.

:::Do forgive me. Link to this blog? If it's legit you're free to edit the page if you wish. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:12, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I second the link request. Also, sign you posts. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:38, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

(TOSSED) RE-posting. You guys should simply look up a bit next time. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 11:18, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:Except that's not official blog. It's fanblog that also [http://bf3blog.com/battlefield-3-weapons/ makes assumptions] and [http://bf3blog.com/2011/07/battlefield-3-50-leaked-alpha-screenshots/ postes leaked stuff]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:55, 4 August 2011 (CDT)
::Looks like I'm tossing that out the window. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 13:20, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::An image which was leaked from the alpha, users of which were under a non-disclosure agreement which means we could get in trouble if we post it up here. Until we get an absolutely official list of weapons (most likely from future trailers and the public beta) the page will stay the same. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

== Setups ==
So what kinda weapons and setups do you guys think you're gonna use?
*Medic - G3 (or other BR) with a scope
*Engineer - M1014 (or other shotty)
*Support - M249 (or other belt fed) with a bipod
*Recon - MP7 (or other SMG/PDW) with a suppressor
*Sidearm - M1911

Obviously details will change as we get more info and after we actually play the game ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:21, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:I'll probably play support mainly, it's what I spent 80% of the alpha doing and it's where I had the most fun. M240 with bipod, optic and flash suppressor will be my class of choice. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:29, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:''Obviously details will change as we get more info and after we actually play the game''
:^ This --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:40, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

== PWNED #7 ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXaFw7aC9GE
A couple things I missed the first time I saw it, there's the M4, M1911, and G17, but also a Desert Eagle and MP5SD2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:17, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

:Desert Eagle? [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigNo NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:48, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::What's up with the Desert Eagle? It's a perfectly good combat pistol *trollface*. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:11, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::: :( --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:22, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::::Developers really need to stop putting large caliber handguns and revolvers in supposedly 'realistic' games, it just feels stupid. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:38, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::''[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0-oinyjsk0 I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?]'' --''Harold Francis "Dirty Harry" Callahan''

:::::[http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/handguns/usa/revolver/1287756474.jpg .357 Magnum Colt Whitetailer], camper's wet dream :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:45, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

:Their rack of guns at 3:06 (presumably airsoft for modelling purposes) contains an M14 and a FAMAS, might be 2 more to expect in the full game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:00, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

::M1911 + M14 = Old School Pack 8) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:48, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::Oops, I only thought to rewatch the range part, totally missed the FAMAS and M14 lol, good catch. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:15, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

== Pre-order Spectact kits ==

[http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/8472426507/2/tumblr_lpes8zstbf1r09ila][http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/8472426507/1/tumblr_lpes8zstbf1r09ila]

Some images of the exclusive Spectact kits you get via pre-order, you'll also notice that the Russian assault class soldier is holding an AEK-971

:Guess American Assault class gets XM8. Both weapons lost their respective trials. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:20, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

You do realise its just art , and probably wont be ingame --[[User:LukeWilliams010|LukeWilliams010]]

:Alright, will wait for confirmation regarding these weapons. Maybe it's just false alarm (and Desert Eagle too). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:49, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

::Nah, the AEK will most likely be in, and the AK-74M will go to the PLR faction. There's nothing official, but there's the AEK (RU) and 74M(PLR), SKS as a sniper (PLR), T-72 tanks (PLR), and MP lines recorded in English, Russian and Farsi, that's confermation enough. I've seen no evidence of the XM8, but who knows, they did say there's 10 times the unlocks as BC2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:30, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Russian Forces clearly used AK-74M on Operation Metro map. The same is expected from final release. As for PLR, there are only silhouettes, and as such it's unclear which AK is used. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:50, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

::::The AEK will probably be a universal unlock for all factions if it is indeed in the final game (which I believe it will be, doubt they'd use a weapon in artwork and not include it in-game) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:01, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

:::There most likely will be no AEK in final game. Those renders showing specact skins are pretty dated.

::::Fair enough, I didn't know that. Not too fussed either way, not a big fan of the weapon. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:09, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

Please no XM8, at least not in the SP. If it's an MP only gun, I could care less whether it's in or not, though. I'm buying this for the SP, which I'm hoping will be at least semi-realistic. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:18, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:I kinda doubt they will put in the XM8, I'd rather see a full-size G36. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:25, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

==M16A3==
Demize99 tweeted that the M16A4 has been renamed to A3. Though we don't know if it still has all three modes, I'm thinking it doesn't. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:49, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

:Hmm. Full Auto M16A4 seems more plausible to me than Picatinny Railed M16A3. Maybe call it M16A5? xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

::Nope, the A3 is actually an A4 with full auto, I thought it was an A2-style for a long time, but looks it up, its hard to find good descriptions, but the A3 and A4 are the same except burst/auto. No one on this site gets that because this site calls every A3-style an A4 with an A2 lower. Why? Because that's what armourers built them with, since they don't have A3s. In games the weapon is whatever it's meant to be because it's not "built" on anything. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:09, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Ah, now that's funny. Turns out to be true[http://www.armyproperty.com/Equipment-Info/M16A3-A4.htm][http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-e.html]. Silly 'mericans couldn't get hold of manual burst firing, Military Command had to enforce it for them :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:21, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

::::Hey, those are the two sites I found! I just couldn't find them again :P Anyway, look at the description on the first site, it's worded very old, saying things like identical to A2, but also same as A4. That's actually the most info I've seen on an A3 in one place, adding to the confusion, since there isn't good info around. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:16, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, Alex is wrong and so are the two websites Masterius linked to. The M16A3 is a full auto A2 (only used by SEALs and Seabees in very limited numbers), NOT a full auto A4. IMFDB policy is to identify a weapon visually, not by what the game calls it. In terms of A3 vs A4, the M16 in this game is intended to be an A4, so that's what it should be called. At least for the moment anyway. If it turns out the devs decide to axe the burst mode, we can classify it a C7A1, but until we know more, it should stay listed as an A4. I'm changing it back. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:11, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

::::Uhm, Modern Firearms is respectable source. If you are claiming that it is not that means you have a better one? And the weapon can't be C7A1 since C7A1 is [http://world.guns.ru/assault/can/diemaco-c7a1-c7a2-c-e.html Model C7FT] (Railed Model 715 itself) and Full Auto M16A4 is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901] (Full Auto Railed Model 705 itself). And there are differences between 705 and 715[http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/variants/]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:25, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:Now I want to know whether Demize99 tweeted about RPK and SVD... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:25, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

::The first A3s had A2 uppers, but were later (and still are) issued with railed uppers, that's where people get confused. A3 = Rail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I do have a better source. It's called Defense Industry Daily [http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m-16-rifle-purchases-04517/]. Additionally, if you take a look at the M16A2 section of the [[M16 rifle series]] page, it says the exact same thing. I also never said MF ''wasn't'' a respectable source, but that doesn't alter the fact that it's wrong in this case. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:25, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

:''Other MIL-STD-1913 rails can be found on the front grips '''et. al.''' of the '''A3s''' and A4s, where they mount useful items like flashlights, laser pointers, grip pods, et. al.''
:There too. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:59, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:'''P.S.''' Besides, why does it feature ''Wikipedia'' in '''Additional Readings'''?

::"Front grip" as in around the barrel, like a Knight's Armament M5 RAS. It has Wikipedia as an additional read because DID's article doesn't feature the M16 rifle's entire life story; Wikipedia does. In fact, why don't you take a look at Wikipedia where it states that the A3 is a full auto A2 and uses DID's article to verify it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:07, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

:::There are a number of different rifles designated as the M16A3 by the US military. The first is what Wikipedia refers to, the Colt Model 646 which is also known as the M16A2E3, which was introduced in small numbers at the same time as the M16A2 and is an A2 with an A1 lower and was only used by the Navy and Coast Guard. Then you have the flat-top Colt Model 901 which was introduced at the same time as the M16A4 (in 1994 I think) which is basically an M16A4 with full auto rather than burst. The following is what the US army website says about the A3 and A4: ""The M-16A3 is identical to the M-16A2 but has a removable carrying handle that is mounted on a Picatinny Rail (for better mounting of optics) and is without burst control. The M-16A4 is identical to the M-16A2 except for the removable carrying handle and Picatinny Rail." I would imagine that for modularity purposes the A3 in this game is the current version (Model 901). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:22, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Wow, thanks, that really clears it up, so we could call the full auto A2 the M16A2E3, and the full auto A4 the M16A3, that makes sure they have different names, right? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Interesting, found [http://compass.seacadets.org/pdf/nrtc/cb1/14234_ch3.pdf information about M16A1 and M16A2E3] on [http://www.seacadets.org/ U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps website]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:31, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::That PDF is actually wrong, as it states that the M16A2E3 is burst fire rather than full auto. Here is the [http://www.scribd.com/doc/29272650/MIL-R-71135-Rifle-5-56MM-M16A2E3-1992 US Army Military Specification] for the M16A2E3 from 1992 (go to page 4, and look at the fire selector section). Although calling the earlier rifle the M16A2E3 takes away the confusion, it can still correctly be called the M16A3 as it was reclassified as this, kind of like how the M16A2 was originally the M16A1E1. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:11, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::True, I guess someone just got lazy and didn't give the flat top version a new name, so the 646 and 901 are BOTH A3s. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:47, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Editors probably made a mistake in ''that'' part because everywhere ''else'' it says automatic fire (right from the beginning). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:19, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

:Heh, and after more searching: [http://www.military-today.com/firearms/m16.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:21, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

::Like I said, the very first A3s had A2 uppers, and after that they had rails. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:17, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Put it this way, the only times it says something about not having a top rail, it doesn't. What I mean is, it always says something really vague like "full auto version of the A2", never mentioning specifics. I have not yet read somewhere that says that the A3 has a fixed carry handle, but have seen plenty that say the opposite. The problem was someone decided a long time ago that this site was for guns that are in movies only, not a gun wiki, so since the A3 is not in any civvie hands, and therefore not in any movies, it shouldn't be mentioned. All "A3"s in movies are A4s with A2 lowers, that is what the armourer used. However with the addition of newer weapons, and therefore newer entries, and the addition of games, where the guns don't really exist and therefore ARE anything, things are being added that never were before. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Mk.18 is only a military weapon, right? That means that, say, in the first Transformers movie Josh Duhamel's Mk.18 wouldn't have been a real Mk.18, but some Civvie M4 with a short barrel and such, made to look exactly the same as one. But that doesn't make it a Mk.18, however it IS listed as such. I may be wrong and it might actually be a Mk.18, but then Canadian C7-series is a better example: NO civvies have them. Period. But it still has an entry, as it is in Reality Mod, among a few others. Now we see the problem with not having an M16A3 entry: there might not be any in civvie hands, but there are some in games, like BF3, but COD4 singleplayer comes to mind as well, and I'm sure there are others. Hmm, I guess what this comes down to is we need an M16A3 listing on the M16 page. All of them should be listed, even if the only info is the name, a sentence about the weapon, and mention that it has never been in anything, otherwise we get stuff like everyone on the site getting false info about a particular weapon, and this happens. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:14, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

::::That ''is'' specific. "Full auto version of the A2" means it's externally identical to the A2, but has fully automatic. I don't see how that's vague. If you've got a credible source saying A3s are "now issued" with flat top uppers, I'd like to see it. But if you look at the pattern of M16 rifle development, it's very likely that such a modification would bear a designation other than A3 (the only two exceptions to this in the platform's history were the Air Force's 11.5" barreled XM177s and when the Army dropped the Model 777 M4 for the Model 920 M4. Josh Duhamal used an M933 in Transformers, not a Mark 18. Mark 18-type carbines with 10.3" or 10.5" barrels can be had by anyone with proper licensing. But the reason we have Mark 18 mock-ups in movies listed as Mark 18s is because, like I already pointed out, it's IMFDB policy to identify the weapon on a visual basis. If it ''looks'' like a Mark 18, we ''call it'' a Mark 18 unless some other way of concretely identifying the weapon (such as an armorer ID) comes along. Your argument about civilian acquisition is a dead end since armorers like MPM are civilians, yet have fully automatic M4s, AK-47s, M60s, and so on in their possession. The only games I've played with full auto M16A4s are CoD4 and MoH, the pages for both of which identify the rifle as an M16''A4''. If you want an A3 category added, either take a look at the [[Talk:M16_rifle_series#Do_well_really_need_to_have_an_.22A2.22_and_.22A3.22_category.3F|M16 rifle talk page to see why it was deleted]] (where MPM himself states that the M16A3 has the same upper receiver as the A2) or come to the forum and state your case as to why said category should be reinstated. But as per IMFDB policy, the M16 on this page should be classified as an A4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:14, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::As soon as my problems with registration are solved, I'll bring this discussion to the light. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::Bah. Is there any other way to contact forum administration other than through the forum? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::Leave a message on [[User:MT2008|MT2008's]] talk page about it. He's an administrator on the forum. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:01, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

== Both M16s ==
Demize confirms multiple M16s! I'm expecting the A3 and A4 obviously [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:05, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:Hmm, that's pretty cool. =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:32, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:Now that's something I would like to take a look at in Beta :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

::He also confirmed not everything's in the Beta, but hopefully these two will be. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:22, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I see very little point in including 2 M16 models, just takes up space that could be filled with something new :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 04:52, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

::::The automatic one will probably be the starting weapon to balance it against another starting weapon, and burst fire one will probably be for everyone to use as an unlock. You see, so that to please everyone :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I gueessssss, suppose they don't have to remodel it or anything either, just change the weapon's code/animations. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:58, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::I think the A4 should be the starter and the A3 should be the unlock, makes much more sense to me. The starter ARs in COD4 were the M16A4 and AK-47 and that was just fine. Or maybe you can modify a base M16 into other variants. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:09, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::I guessed it right: Demize has confirmed that M16A3 will be the default US assault rifle for the Assault kit[http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/102776416898265088] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:00, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Gamescom trailers and official gameplay vids ==
We've got official footage for 2 weapons, one already known (MP-443), and one all-new (SCAR-H CQC with Grippod and Aimpoint optic). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDDfPxF3EFE . In the Co-Op live gameplay from the devs, one of them picks up an unknown pump action shotgun with a 4+1 capacity.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 11:06, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Nice! Wonder if SCAR-L in? Oh, and they give civilian shotguns to military again! *shakes head* Already noticed that with M1014 before. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

There isnt 2 m16 models , where do you get your info lol there is one the m16a3

== INCOMING ==

[http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/planetbattlefield.gamespy.com/images/news3/fact_sheet2.jpg *kaboom*]

EA just released the fact sheet with all the weapons/attachments/specs listed, there's the weapon page.

EDIT:[http://planetbattlefield.gamespy.com/fullstory.php?id=165281 and here's your proof]
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 13:22, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Is that M39 the Finnish Mosin-Nagant? Or is there another battle rifle that uses the M39 designation? Also, that list is missing the Groza bullpup AR that one dev caught one of the testers reloading.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 13:42, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

The M39 refers to the M14 variant used by the Marines [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_Enhanced_Marksman_Rifle (this)]. And the Groza bullpup was actually the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-91 A-91] (not the 9A-91 from BC2... Russian weapon designations are confusing)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 13:56, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Good find, kinda wish I hadn't looked at it though XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:11, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:: AHAHAHAHA, "SCAR H CQB" made my day. But at least they wrote ACOG, not ACOG Sight, nor ACOG Scope. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:::That is what FN Herstal calls it [http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=184&backPID=182&productID=10&pid_product=232&pidList=182&categorySelector=1&detail] though does it really belong in the carbines section? I would have thought it still belonged with the battle rifles. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:38, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

::::They call it CQC, C for Combat not B for Battle. But calling it CQB is still more correct than calling it simply SCAR-H, like in Modern Warfail 2, because that usually refers to SCAR-H STD, the one w/ the normal length barrel. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:47, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I see, fair enough. As you said though, at least they were slightly closer than some games. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:51, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Well, this does nothing to allay my fears about it being a generic AMURIKA V EVUL ARABS AND KOMMIES shooter. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:37, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
: Also, looks like y'all missed them calling it the M93R, rather than just the 93R like it should be. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

::A few things; first, it looks like this list is a little dated, as Demize confirmed both M16s, but even though details might have changed, I bet this is a 100% list. Second, remember this doesn't include stuff like the M320 (as it's a Gadget in terms of game), and mounted weapons. Third, I'm assuming the M39 (M14) will be semi only, as only it and the SKS are in the Battle Rifle section, with the G3 moved to Assault Rifles. Similarly, I'm betting the Glock 18 and Beretta 93R will be auto and burst only, otherwise the Glock 17 and M9 would be pretty useless. Fourth, notice that there is a P90 AND a P90TR. I'm thinking if you attach an RDS to the P90TR, it becomes the standard one, like COD4's MP5SD. Lastly, what's a T44 pistol? I did a quick search and all I got was this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/T44.jpg Oh, also, I'm totally using the M82 with irons, just for kicks :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I'm thinking the "T44" might be the sidearm for Iranian forces, like the KH2002 will be their assault rifle. I don't know what it could be referring to, though; as far as I know, Iran uses P226 copies as their standard sidearm.

This looks ''really'' suspicious to me. No G36E (as was expected from BF2 (L85 too)), no SG 550 (as was confirmed by Demize), no multiple M16 (wasn't that said by Demize?), "Battle Rifles" actually being Marksman Rifle (M39) and Semi-Automatic Carbine (SKS), several weapons being ported from BC2 (AEK-971, A-91, PP-2000, Saiga-20K, MP-412) instead of BF2 (Bizon or Vityaz, Saiga-12K) for no reason; Beretta 93R and Glock 18 are actually law enforcement automatic pistols and will overshadow regular pistols... And T44? WW2 prototype gun being put in pistols?

If this "fact" sheet was putted on [http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/ official Battlefield Blog], I would have believed it. As of now I take it with a grain of salt. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:38, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

: The sheet lists an SG553 in the carbines section. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:14, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

::That would be like someone saying: "We want M4 in BC2!" and someone responded: "There is M16 there". One weapon is assault rifle and other is carbine. They shouldn't cancel each other. Really. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:23, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

Also, how exactly do you think the "straight pull bolt" under the weapon accessories could work? Either it will be some bullshit about somehow putting a straight pull bolt on bolt actions to increase ROF which will annoy the hell out of me, or I suppose it could be putting a straight pull bolt on assault/battle rifles to increase accuracy and turn them into sort of sniper rifles. Either way, I don't like it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:32, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

T44 is what they are calling the [[Taurus Model 44]] revolver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:35, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

:Hmm, so the revolver unlocks are Russian .357 Magnum and Brazilian .44 Magnum... American .357 Magnum like Colt and S&W would have been more reasonable, honestly... But yeah, some wouldn't want revolvers in military shooters at all. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

::Sigh, more revolvers. I'm assuming that the straight pull bolt will be for snipers as opposed to assault/battle rifles, either for bolt actions to increase ROF (even though straight pulls are supposedly more tiring than turn bolts) or for the semi-auto snipers for a bit more accuracy? Teeny tiny list of machine guns, sadface. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:23, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== Weapon Reloads ==

Anybody seen the GamesCom Coop-Demo? I just noticed how the guy reloads his empty shotgun. First round into the chamber, all the following into the tube. I think they got it right this time. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 10:08, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

:I didn't see that one, but I saw the M1014 reload in the leaked alpha footage, and it does do that :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:19, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

::Tactical pistol reloads too :o --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:30, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP7A1 Alpha Gameplay ==

The amount of Alpha gameplay videos on Youtube is insane, but in one of them I did see an MP7A1. Looked like the same model used in the Medal of Honor reboot. It was only seen for a moment, so hopefully someone can add more information? [[User:Miyazawa|Miyazawa]] 22:11, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

:The MP7 is setup the same way as the MoH one, using the stock, grip, and pistol sights, but obviously has a proper empty reload. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:44, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

I have tried to add the MP7A1 on the BF3 weapon listing underneath the submachine guns but someone keeps on deleting it. I havent uploaded an image from youtube because honestly I dont know how, can someone help out with this and stop deleting this post as the weapon IS CONFIRMED. [[User:Valant]] 2:58PM, September 9, 2011 (PST)
: No, it's not. You're not allowed to post anything from the Alpha build. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:18, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

Valant here reposting MP7 gameplay, and to reply YES I CAN post because most weapons you see on page from the alpha/PAX gameshows. In fact for the most part all of the weapons should be deleted because they are from the same build. I have provided a link to show first hand footage. Once the game is released and this is fact checked, the comment I left before can be deleted. Here is the link again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuvvdBhH0r4

It's just not getting into your head, isn't it? Screencaps from non-official/leaked footage are STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. SO yeah, it's nice and all that you're linking that in the discussion, but please DO NOT edit the main page again until beta comes out. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:51, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Oh REALLY? Because last time I checked there are several screen caps and images that are of some low quality camera taking a picture of a screen DURING ALPHA! Check the muther f*****g G36C section, or The UMP45, the AK74M, the DIO KH2002, and G3A3. These are all weapons from the same build of the game and these have pages, ergo the MP7 should have its own section. Now, im off to put the post BACK UP so suck it.

:You are confusing Closed Alpha with NDA and Game Shows (Expos) intended for public. Those ones are categorised as Pre-alpha‎ (expos before Alpha) and Pre-beta (expos after Alpha). And you are just asking to get reported. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:03, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

.....reported.....really....well then if thats the case as I posted on another MP7 related discussion below Ill wait till the "official" news about it comes out
== Full Auto Carbine ==

Been reading and watching videoa and they all have the M4A1 listed as a carbine. Does anyone know if the M4A1 fires full auto, three round bursts, or a single shot when fired?

The M4A1 is a carbine that is full auto or semi, just like real life, is that wierd? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:44, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Carbines ==
What makes me really happy is they got the term Carbine right; the M4A1 is an M16 Carbine, the AKS-74U is an AK-74 Carbine, the SCAR-H CQC is a SCAR Carbine, the G36C is a G36 Carbine, the SG553 is a SG550 Carbine, and, well, you could call the A-91 an AKM Carbine I guess. That's also why the relatively short HK416 is in the Assault Rifle section and not the Carbine one: it's not a Carbine. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:52, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

:'''Trivia Information''':

:IRL in addition to Assault Rifle and Carbine category, there is also so called Sub-Carbine category (that is, shorter than Carbine). Four of the above mentioned pairs have three guns in these categories (and three of these four pairs even have additionally Automatic Rifle/Light Machine Gun variant but that's a different story). And here is the list:

:M4 Commando < M4 < M16
:AKS-74U < AK-105 < AK-74(M)
:G36C < G36K(E) < G36(E)
:SG 553 < SG 551 < SG 550

:And to which category HK416 belongs, [http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/hk416_specs.asp depends on the variant]. Quite a list, isn't it? ;)

:And while AKM didn't have official carbine (there was [http://www.red-alliance.net/forum/index.php?topic=11481.0 a prototype] and that's it), SKS can be considered one somewhat :P

:Maybe that was interesting to read :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:45, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Again... ==

What's with the people using this "fact sheet" to clutter the main page with weapon titles. Can't they wait for more substantial material before adding stuff? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:02, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

:Agreed; pages that are just lists of weapons without pictures or really any info look terrible, let's wait for them to show up. The people who care can find it here on the talk page, or Google :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:20, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

:Leaked info is not allowed, and entries with no pics or info aren't very much liked either. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:29, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ Precisely. Official artwork, renders, graphical announcements (like that for Physical Warfare Pack, or Battlelog), screenshots, trailers, gameplay videos; screenshots made from official trailers and gameplay videos. All those things will do. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:50, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

==UMP==

you can see it in a video from nvidia, the player to the right of the interview, you can see him using a UMP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiCNdEYCtgs

unkown what calibre, but im just gonna assume its UMP45 --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 06:38, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

==HK416==

another video from nvidia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUyIIIKta44

if you pause at 0:30 it looks like the HK416--[[User:Sike|Sike]] 06:42, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

:M27 IAR, to be specific. Based on the HK416, yes, but not a normal HK416. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:25, 21 August 2011 (CDT)
:: Well the Hk146 is in, it appeared on the battlelog stat page. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 09:25, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

== Weird Weapon ==

What is that weapon the guy starts using at 2:24, in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiCNdEYCtgs ? It looks like an AS VAL, but that optic setup is weird. I wish they sticked to the real life russian optics, instead of creating rail-attaching versions. E.g.: The PK-AS (russian holographic) is actually offset to the left side of the gun, not aligned with the bore or mounted on a rail.[[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 08:20, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

:Maybe it's quite hard to get hands on real Russian weapons in Sweden, so work is done with what's available... Oh, and PK-AS isn't holographic sight, it's reflex sight. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:56, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

:It might be the VSS. You can use iron sights on a sniper rifle so they might allow you to use reflex and holographic sights as well.

:There's no VSS, there's a VAL, but this guy's an Engineer, so it doesn't matter either way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:14, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

== Fact Sheet ==

People, while it has been confirmed that the fact sheet is indeed official, it's also been confirmed that it '''IS NOT A FINAL LIST''', it only shows the equipment available '''SO FAR'''. So don't worry, I'm sure many more equipment options will come (I hope these include an MP5). [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:34, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

:Well, Demize wouldn't confirm whether the Karkand guns will be able to be used in standard BF3, but the way he said it seemed to hint they might, so I'm betting we'll see the MP5 and PP-19 Bizon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:26, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

Gonzaga that's pretty much false hope , because there not going to release an official fact sheet and then add "many more guns" its not even wishful thinking its just stupid.and Alex when somethings is unconfirmed that doesn't mean its automatically going to be in the game, and if its anything like bfbc2 which it is, the guns will be seperate like the Vietnam expansion.

: First, no need to call me stupid. And second, do you really think they can't add more stuff to the game 3 months away from the release? Not even the beta is out! Plus, by equipment I didn't necessarily mean more weapons. I guess you thought so because my example was a weapon.[[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:03, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

I did not call you stupid, I called your idea stupid.You really think that there going too add tonnes more "equipment" after they've released an official statement than that is stupid.

:What's stupid here is you not signing your posts. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:06, 27 August 2011 (CDT)

::Lol owned :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:47, 27 August 2011 (CDT)

== SKS has a plastic stock ==
Demize confirmed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:36, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

== Battlefield 3 full weapons list ==
It is up on official [http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/complete-list-of-battlefield-3-weapons/ bf3 blog].

:That's not the official blog. As it says in the description, it's a fan site. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:21, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, but it is news of an actual official announcement. --[[User:Nomad175|Nomad175]] 00:00, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:::The announcement was leaked, meaning that the information it contains has no place on the main page. Until we get official imagery of each weapon, they should not be added to the main page. Just makes everything look a bit messy and half-arsed if you ask me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:49, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== About SVD ==

So were there any news from Demize or some official material released that confirmed that the magazine for SVD was fixed or not? Should it have been changed to NDM-86 on the main page? Only seen it in leaked Alpha (which ''could'' have been a temporal state, considering that SVU in BC2 had proper magazine (SVD and SVU use the same one), and this one probably ported from MoH for testing purposes). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:35, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

== Battleblog #8 ==
Sig 553 and Strela/Igla launcher confirmed in a post on the official Battlefield blog [http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2011/08/25/battleblog-8-build-your-weapon-of-choice.aspx] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:46, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:Heh, suppressive fire with carbine :) And the modelled launcher is [[SA-7 Grail|Strela-2]] (NATO reporting name: SA-7 Grail) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:22, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:: Thought as much, was the disk-shape thingy at the front that gave it away. <3 the weapon customisation that BF3 will offer though, gonna be awesome. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:46, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, the primary indicator for Strela-2 is that, errr, under-barrel thingy with tube-and-spike shape while every other model is ball-and-tube. Here is a nice chart: [http://blueprintbox.com/watermark-gif.php?img=./data/media/384/sa-14-strela-gremlin.gif]
:::And yeah, customisation is great \o/ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:22, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

::::That's the bit I meant, forgive my extremely technical description XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:06, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::Oh, heh, right. Thought you meant the launcher tube itself :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:47, 26 August 2011 (CDT)

The incoming weapon modification options seem very exciting....lots of options to tailor your weapon to your specifics. However, the only detail about the blog that keeps me sceptical is the fact that you need to unlock every feature for each weapon individually. Knowing that from MW2 that would mean hours and hours and hours of playing with just one weapon to finally unlock the parts needed to tailor it to your specifics, only to then unlock the next weapon you've been longing for and then you need to start again from scratch with that weapon. Rather frustrating IMO. Would a better idea to make the modification parts a global unlock, so that once you unlock say supressors with an assault rifle, it counts for ALL other assault rifles too...same with LMG's, Pistols, Shotgungs, etc. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 03:05, 26 August 2011 (CDT)

== "T44" ==
Found it; 2nd video, 21 seconds in. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:13, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Link please? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:25, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

OOPS, sorry, here:
http://ob-game.blogspot.com/2011/08/battlefield-3-three-videos-from-pax.html
[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:57, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

ummm you're wrong thats an mp412 , the scope also looks russian which gives it away

:Actually it doesn't look like the Mp412 at all or the T44, it looks a little different, take a look at this image I snapped of it
: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/mp412orcoltpython.jpg/
: To me it almost looks like a Colt Python from Black Op's, notice the iron sights, front and rear (the white markings) and the silhouette of the barrel and cylinder as well as the positioning of the grip, it's hard to say but my vote is towards a Colt Python. DICE did say they were going to add Faction specific weapons and if you look a little earlier the guy was using a Stinger. I'd think a Colt Python .357 Magnum would go nicely as a US analogue to the Russian MP412 .357 Magnum. Also to the Scope, it could just be a Russian style scope attached to a US weapon, they did say that the customization was huge so it's a possibility [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:47, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Its an mp412 , if it was a python it would have grooves down the barrel housing which it doesn't its solid like the mp412 also I noticed the break action latch near the iron sight, which also corresponds to the mp412 , the python does not have a break open design. *Edit* also the colt python is not in the game.

:The devs didn't say there isn't any other revolver in the game, thus shouldn't you, Persistent Mr. Anonymous. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:17, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:Well, it's NOT a 412, but it could be a Python, some S&W, the Raging Bull, I don't know. The lighting's wierd, but it looks stainless to me, which would be good if the MP412 is black. The SKS, which is synth, has been spotted with an EOTech, so unlocking American optics for Russian guns and vice versa is confirmed. I'm thinking every optic, with the exception of the 6x and 12x sniper scopes, can be used on anything. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:33, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Ok, if you cant indentify that gun, then you shouldn't really be on the site to be honest, because you can clearly tell that's a mp412 the colt python has barrel housing grooves this doesnt it solid like an mp412 , you can also see the break action latch is,colt pythons dont have this because they are not break reloaders. *Edit* and how can you say that it is stainless? its clearly black with a synthetic grip.
:In that case, by your rationale you should leave right now. Ignoring everything else about the gun, look at the muzzle end. This pistol has a rounded barrel with a raised rib. The Mp412 does not. Also, the locking indents on the cylinder are wrong for a MP412, where they are small cuts coming from the rear of the cylinder, rather than the more traditional ones shown here. The part of the frame that meets the rear of the cylinder is also wrong for a MP412, which would have a "step" rather than a smooth ramp where it widens to the width of the cylinder. Due to the motion blur ghosting on this image it is really hard to tell anything about it so we will just have to wait and see. Also, sign your posts and stop being so condescending. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:22, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Also, just noticed that in the same clip the person in front of you has a G36C, so that can go ahead and be confirmed, along with the Stinger for that matter. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:47, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
[[File:Battlefield 3 Tourney PAX Prime Day 2 Wrap Up.mp4 000021722.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[File:Battlefield 3 Tourney PAX Prime Day 2 Wrap Up.mp4 000021255.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

:Hmm, these are official videos, not DICE ones, but offical meaning by a site/company etc; should they be added to the main page? It's kind of a grey area. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:25, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::PAX and NVIDIA are definitely can be considered official source just as E3 and IGN. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

ok lets just leave it as the t44/mp412 for now, if we cant agree on what gun it is, then theres no point arguing senselessly we'll have to wait until the game comes out to properly identify it --[[User:Lukewilliams010|Lukewilliams010]] 14:10, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

==M4 and M4A1==

Was just browsing through twitter when i noticed something.

http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/108437158804717568

both the M4 and M4A1 is in. like how the the M16A3 and A4 are in. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 10:54, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Now that's amuses me because I had ''exact'' the same thoughts. Seems I wasn't alone xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:10, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

::Seems to me more that BF3 will have much more weapons than we thought. Well, let's just pick one up and kick some asses with it :) --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:12, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

I think its pretty cool they are getting multiple variants for each gun. Heres hoping for an AK-47 unlock.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 12:06, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

On the same twitter he makes a point of saying that the M4A1 was designed for special forces whereas the standard weapon that would be found being used by Marines is the M4. My spidey sense is telling me that the standard weapons will be the burst M4 and M16A4, and they will be upgradable to full auto M4A1 and M16A3 (flat-top receiver won't tally and the number will make no sense to the layman but whatever). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:46, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Nope, he already said the full auto ones are default. But I'd figure in SP we're more likely to see the burst ones. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:31, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

::SP: M4 for regular Marines, M4A1 for USSOCOM units, something like that. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:50, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

:In any case, it's awesome they added variants of many weapons. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:46, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

::Indeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:28, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Can't remember where I saw it from, probably from Battlefield wiki but I remember seeing that the weapon variants were based on each Classes Kit selection. So for example, take the Assault class, as it's being merged with the Medic Class, Players would have the option to equip either a Grenade Launcher of carry around a Medkit. So for example, an M16A3 could be default setting with a Medkit as a piece of equipment but the M16A4 is used when attaching a grenade launcher. But that's just my theory [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:37, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

::It's not really merging, they're just going back to how they had it in BF2142 (Assault = Medic + Assault, Recon = Sniper + Special Forces, Engineer = Anti-tank + Engineer and Support = um, Support, his main "thing" being his extra droppable things like a portable shield and a sentry gun). In 2142 every Assault had a Medkit since you don't want to give your medics the option of being even more useless, the optional item for the Assault class was the defib. The fastest way to get TK'd as Assault was to have someone realise you weren't carrying one. I imagine this one will be the same, Support will always have an ammo box and assault will always have a health box. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:35, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

==PWP Trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ukxgldpOo&feature=feedu

warning, containts footage from operation metro they some players may find offensive. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 08:58, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:That is... ''SKS''? Reminds me of AK-47 in MW2 *sadface*
:Another thing noted: incorrect reticles for M145 and PKS-07 are still in... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:27, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Remember though DICE did say that you can "customize" your weapon, that might be a SKS just heavily modified by the player rather than appearing as the "actual" weapon. Who know's if we're lucky, the SKS might be featured as standard in it's default config [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:::As much as I would want it to be, I doubt that what DICE meant by customization. BF3 so far doesn't seem to have customization as elaborate as, for example, [[Ghost Recon: Future Soldier]]. Thus this tacticool SKS is probably the only one *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:44, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:"DAO-12" -.-... OMG! What the heck is their deal with the DAO-12? Can't they just call it how it supposed to be called?! --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:01, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::DICE seems to have obsession with this "designation" as it tracks way back from Battlefield 2 (2005) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:16, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

DAO-12 was used because of a legal conflict with Armsel using the Striker name, it became a fan favorite so they kept the name. --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:09, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
i asked Demize on twitter and he replied saying it was a homage to BF2 --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 14:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:Exactly, and we all know how bad most gamers are at identifying weapons, the MW3 crowd widely believed the ACR was a SCAR because the ACR was tan (in MW2 the SCAR was tan and the ACR was this ugly grey colour, and now the ACR is tan). If they renamed it Striker a lot of BF players would think it was a different gun :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:20, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Er, that doesn't really sound like a bad thing :/ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:29, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

i asked demize about it, and he said they named it the DAO-12 as a homage to BF2 --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 07:57, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== M39 EMR confirmed ==
I asked demize if there was an m14 battle rifle and he replied ,and said there is a M39 EMR so that can now be added to the weapons list.--[[User:Lukewilliams010|Lukewilliams010]] 16:07, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:He also said SG 550 would be in, official blog showed SG 553. And SKS is "SKS". We need official ''illustrated'' material. As soon as it is available - go ahead, put it in. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:29, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yup, if we don't have a picture, don't add it, even if it's not leaked. It's not like we won't have everything up pretty soon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:53, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1/M16 Gas block question ==

I've seen quite a few topics concerning the lack of a visible gas block on the M4's and M16's in a number of shooters, and I was wondering if it was possible that the gas blocks could be either low-profile gas blocks that were either not visible or were actually under the RAS, or if the gas blocks were actually integrated into an after-market RAS. It seems odd to me that developers would repeatedly make the same mistake over different games in different franchises.

:It's possible to just remove the front sight without removing the gas block on a standard M16 rifle and M4 but it'd be a little exposed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:23, 10 September 2011 (CDT)

::Do you mean with a hacksaw? Aren't the gas block and front sight a single piece of metal? It is however possible to get a low profile gas block (relatively easy replacement) that only extends above the barrel to the height of the gas tube plus a few mm, so that certain free floating RIS systems can be mounted over the top of it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:39, 10 September 2011 (CDT)

:::That was my question; with all the Military consultants they have coming in and looking at this stuff, I'd always assumed that they had just modeled an after market RIS and low-profile gas-block.
--[[User:Hominis Solus|Hominis Solus]] 21:58, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:I wonder why developers won't just model Flat Top Mounts\Risers on the sights for M4s\M16s ? That's how the problem is solved IRL, including in U.S. Military. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:16, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
::I'd imagine that most modellers don't realise that the front sight is also the gas block, so they see no problem in removing it for aesthetic/gameplay purposes. 99% of gamers probably don't realise either. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:15, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Both the modellers and the gamers doesn't supposed to care about this kind of things, only people like us, it can concern. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:31, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:It was well after I got into learning about firearms and such that I found out the front sight (gas block) and stock tube (buffer tube) are required for the AR series to function, so you can't remove either pretty much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:53, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

::It's true that the stock front sight post is also the same piece of metal as the gas block, but you can remove them so long as you put a new gas block on.
--[[User:Hominis Solus|Hominis Solus]] 21:58, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I meant you can't just take it off :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:30, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== A-91 ==
Confirmed to be the more modern 5.56mm version by Demize. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:08, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Guillotine Teaser Trailer ==
Anyone else seen it? There's a mortar that the player-character uses to send up flares (I think they called them illumination rounds) and I think the player-character also uses a Mk. 17 with some sort of 4x scope. Sorry, I'm still fairly new to this. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:27, 12 September 2011 (CDT)
:I think the mortar is an M224, and yes it was a Mk.17 with an ACOG (magazine looked a bit small in the mag-well, but could be the angle as could only be seen when climbing the wall). Also, it looks like the guy who is stabbed at the end of the video is carrying a G3A3 with an ACOG. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:35, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

== M16 series reload animation ==

I'm fairly new to this site, though I've been following it closely to see the development of the firearms that will appear in Battlefield 3.
I've been reading that a lot of you guys are expecting an accurate portrait of the M16 series reload animation in the game. I just wanted to ask how do you properly reload an M16 in real life? It is my understanding that when the rifle is empty, you load it by pulling the charging handle. But when there is a bullet still in the chamber you just need to press the bolt catch. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I just want to get this clarified since I've never been able to understand the reload mechanic of the M16.
[[User:Santos|Santos]] 01:14, 16 September 2011 (CDT)
:With the exception of loading the gun for the first time or clearing a jam, you never need to touch the charging handle. If you are reloading from a partial magazine, there will be a round in the chamber so all you need to do is drop out the magazine and push a new one in. When you you empty the magazine in an M16 type weapon the bolt locks back automatically, so you drop out the magazine, put a new one in, and then all you need to do is push the bolt release on the left side to let the bolt go forwards (you can also push the forward assist if you feel like it). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:20, 16 September 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the third reason you might is if you just picked it up off the ground, to check it's still mechanically sound. Though that sorta falls under clearing a jam. Edit: Also you might part-pull it on drawing it if you're into brass checks, though given how often FPS characters change weapons habitually brass-checking on draw would probably indicate a very short memory. "Yep, still there from ten seconds ago, how bout that." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:09, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

You could rack the charging handle if you like, but the proper way to reload and empty M16 type weapon is to just slap the bolt release. I call it the ping pong paddle. A lot of games forgets about little things like reloads for weapons [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:02, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

== Who removed the MP7!?! ==

Okay, who took away the MP7 from the submachine gun catergory? I spent a whole 20 minutes adding that section of the article and some guy just deleted it. Why? It was really in the game and not in any way spammy or vestigial. Whoever took away put it back. Come on, I don't want to remake the whole thing.

THere are NO official images of it. And no official video footage has featured it. Don't post images from the Alpha --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:20, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

But the fact remains that it has been seen in the game, and it was already on the page before I made the changes.

Why can't I use the Alpha? I don't know if there is or is not a rule regarding alpha version footage and stuff. I thought the purpose of this site was to chronicle what weapons were used in what movies/games/TV/Anime. If I have evidence that the MP7 is in BF3, why does it matter whether or not it was from the Alpha or official footage? The image I used was from a gameplay video I saw on Youtube. Does this mean no one can use their own gameplay videos?

:No, it means that you have to wait for officially released material or for the game to actually come out. This applies to leaked gameplay footage, images from leaked betas, dubious leaked information in general (eg the MW3 leaks from Kotaku) unapproved on-set photos, leaked movie footage like that infamous cut of ''X-Men Origins: Wolverine'', and so on. Building an article is not a race, if we have to wait to confirm something is official, that's what we do. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

I suppose that makes sense, I'm gonna keep that in mind when making contributions in the future.

I thought anything to do with the Alpha was under an NDA anyway? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:31, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, if you look at the screencap he posted the guy who leaked it deliberately blacked out his own name. Obviously knew he shouldn't have been recording it and posting it in the first place. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

Okay, for the last frickin' time. Please DO NOT add weapons that are not in any official gameplay vids/trailers/screenshots, until they are.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:02, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

@ HashiriyaR32: Hey! I was also someone who tried adding the section of the MP7. Its in the alpha videos but to be fair, so is every freaking gun that is on this page! The only videos that are available are the ones from the alpha. Seriously take the amount of time it takes to delete the post and go onto youtube and see for yourself! In fact, after posting this I will repost the MP7 with a link to the youtube video...Also FYI I happen to love this website and for all it stands for and I try to monitor several different games to make sure the info is correct, I would never want to add something that didnt exist in a videogame/movie. Valant

:What? Nothing on the page is from the alpha, everything's from screenshots, trailers, concept art, or official videos, like EA Pwned, IGN, etc. If you don't believe me, give me an example. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:52, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

@Valant, its as simple as this. To take part in the Alpha you had to sign a non disclosure agreement. That means that any footage that you have seen was illegally distributed. Until guns show up in an official (and legal) source, they shouldn't be listed here. The MP7 may very well be a weapon in the game, but the point is that at this point that information has not been publicly release, to say nothing of the fact that legal screenshots cannot be posted on here. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:11, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

:Right, and as soon as the Beta is out, we can add everything, it's only a week-ish, and besides, WE all know the MP7 & others are in, and they can be mentioned on the talk page, just the official page can't have it. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:39, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Then I should just delete this whole page then shouldnt I? Because again every weapon we are seeing IS NOT CONFIRMED! There is no beta released and only Alpha videos....Seriously this is bullshit
:The difference is that all the other weapons are from material that was released by EA, or from footage that they allowed to be shot (The images from the G36C section are from an interview with one of the developers IIRC) as opposed to the video you posted which was illegal made and distributed by someone breaking the NDA they signed. As you seem unable to grasp this, just wind your neck in for a week or so until the Beta is released, and then it can be posted with LEGALLY obtained confirmation images. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:15, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

If posting info from a breach of NDA is the main reason than I can understand that. Then I shall wait for the "official" information to be released.
== G3A3 and UMP.45 ==
The weapons can be seen in these videos from GameSpot in the Tokyo Game Show 2011.
Though it's cam footage you can clearly see the pick-up icon of the weapons.

Someone should work their magic and add those to the page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0M7_3wENw Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsI9Vsv5wE Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arOhTIaeGGY Part 3

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 12:59, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

:I can have it down in about 20 minutes. --[[User:Samael527|Samael527]]

:I would imagine that if it is cam footage it has likely not been officially release and is against copyright, so probably shouldn't have caps on here. You can get a shot of the G3A3 from the end of the guillotine trailer though. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:05, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

::I added the two weapons on the page. Since the videos were not leaked but released by a reputable game journalism/review site (Gamespot.com) it should be okay, right? If they weren't allowed to release it Gamespot wouldn't have done so. I looked around and other gaming websites are posting the footage as well [http://www.gametrailers.com/video/tgs-11-battlefield-3/721062]. I'm pretty new to IMFDB, so is the stuff I saw in the gameplay okay to post? --[[User:Samael527|Samael527]]

::Similary to E3 with IGN, PAX with NVIDIA, TGS with GameSpot definitely can be considered official source. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:53, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

== M1911 Confirmed ==

http://gunclub.ea.com/us/intel/blog/battlefield3-weapon-unlock

For being an EA gunclub member you get an M1911 :P --Joey1666

Pic here: http://web-vassets.ea.com/Assets/Richmedia/Gun-Club/images/bf3-gun-unlock.jpg --[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

:Not too sure exactly what pistol they have based this on though. It has slanted cocking serrations on the slide (rear only), non target sights, beavertail grip safety and a rounded burr hammer. Closest thing I can think of is the early version of the [[1911#M-45_MEUSOC|M-45 MEUSOC]], which are a old USGI 1911 frame with a [[1911#Springfield_Armory_M1911_-_A1|Sprinfield Armoury]] slide, a rounded hammer, a beavertail grip safety and Pachmayr rubber grips (along with some other less obvious improvements). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:58, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, I'm pretty sure it IS the original version of the MEU. Also, you missed the Springfield 3-hole trigger. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:24, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

:Gun Club? Looks like EA is messing up again: http://gunclub.ea.com/us/mygunclub/rewards
:They haven't even fixed the stat tracking :S --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:12, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

== Battlefield 3 Open Beta ==

So, EA confirmed the PC/X360/PS3 BETA startup. Begining 27.09 for those who have MoH 2010 Tier One Edition, and 29.09 for the rest.
Good opportunity to test the game and get some guns updated :). ~ GumBoy 21.09.2011 16.07 (CET)

:Actually, the early access is open for people with the Medal of Honor Limited Edition as well, not just Tier One. It's also for people who pre-ordered before a certain cutoff, but I can't remember the specifics. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:10, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

::Can't wait for this, hope we get a different map this time, Operation Metro was good but not great. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:37, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Caspian Border would be great :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:06, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

== PP2000 Spotted ==
Battlelog pics here: http://www.battlefieldlog.com/2011/09/battlefield-3-beta-battlelog.html

Pic here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pdUIBRNHpXo/Tn4uZQaayQI/AAAAAAAAAdw/PVmts2hVNjU/s1600/battlelog-4.jpg

:What's the pistol, what's the shotgun? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:09, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::I believe the handgun is a Glock variant, whilst the shotgun is Benelli M3 Super 90. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 08:02, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:::I saw the PP2000 in action at Eurogamer Expo, looked pretty good. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:16, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Hmm, I never saw it before. The shotgun is the 870 MCS and the pistol is the Glock 17. If you look at the page, he's level 0 with no XP, so these are the first unlocks, which makes sense given what they are: a shotgun, a pistol that isn't faction-based that's similar to the M9 and MP443, and a PDW. Also, now that the PP2000 has a stock we won't have any more stockless guns, specifically stockless guns with scopes... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:08, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Hmm, the magazine tube is rather short for M870 MCS. Which would mean it is rather regular variant of M870 with pistol grip and full stock. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:49, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::No, the MCS is modular, hence the name, it just has the 4 round tube as standard, with the 7 round one as an attachment. This is the MCS: http://www.kiesler.com/shop/ProductImages/Model870MCS_PartSLG.jpg [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:57, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::The magazine tube in MCS is supposed to have the same length as the barrel as can be seen here: [http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/Firearms/Shotguns%20Pump/MCS.aspx Remington Model 870 Modular Combat Shotgun (MCS)]. Thus the 3+1 MCS would have the same 10" barrel. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:23, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::::I understand it's supposed to, but it's still an MCS, just not assembled properly or something. If you don't like it, just use the extended tube attachment, I know I will be, and Demize confirmed (how many times have I written those two words now?) all the extended mag attachments are visible, like the MP7s 40 round magazine, or this shotgun. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:50, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::If that's so... Okey, an oddly assembled MCS ¯\(°_o)/¯
:::::::::P.S. I didn't count how many times you have written those two words D: --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:02, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::LOL! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:08, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::Demize confirmed that Alex says 'Demize confirmed' a lot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:00, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::::[http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/hr/im-metal-hs-2000-e.html XD] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:12, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

==ACR?==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coOHjF4_apI&feature=channel_video_title

Magpul Masada/ ACR?

At 0:36, the handguard and flashhider look very similar to that of the ACR

:I think it might be the SG 553, also has a similar flashhider. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:07, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::Agree, it is the SG 553. Can tell by the design of the rail system, shape of the receiver and the fact that it has a smooth curve to the top of the stock rather than an adjustable cheek riser. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:14, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

I also see the M320 Launcher at 0:41, so thats one more launcher for the page [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:09, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, what a song choice :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:12, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:Whine, whine, whine. No game is good enough for you people. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:41, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::Not game - song >:O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:49, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

::Yay, finally can see the M320 mounted instead of standalone :D And yeah, I agree that's the 553. Oh, and what do you mean "you people"? Lol ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:05, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Sorry, I thought you were complaining about the game. I was just joking when I said that. *rolls eyes* - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:44, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

== NDA for Beta ==

OK, from what I'm hearing the Beta is going to be subject to an NDA, just like the Alpha. This may just be for the early access and may be rescinded once it goes public, or it may be for the whole thing.

What this means is that we can't post info or shots from the Beta build until it is rescinded. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:02, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

:[http://twitter.com/#!/zh1nt0/status/115781634879524864 Disregard.] I screwed up, again. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:15, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

::Haha :) That's good news [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:18, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

== G17C modelled after G17 ==

I just talked to a DICE dev on Steam, and he told me the reason they modelled the G17C after a regular G17 it's to save prestanda so the game can run as smoothly as possible.
So that's why is missing those compesators "holes" on the slide. And the reason they decided to still call it a G17C, is because is only a minor detail. They probably have more relevant things to fix, than changing the correct name of a weapon. edit: forgot to sign [[User:Santos|Santos]] 03:46, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:That's understandable, given the crazy graphics and everthing else this game it running. If they don't change it we'll note it as incorrect on the main page, but note that it was intentionally left out; if they do know the correct difference between the C and standard, but needed to do for technical reasons, I'm happy. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 30 September 2011 (CDT)

::But someone could state in the main page, that it was left there intentionally due to some other and more important things to worry about in the development of the game. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 03:46, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

::I guess that proves that Frostbite 2 Engine is much more complicated and difficult to mod than Refractor 2 Engine. To fix weapon's name in Battlefield 2 one needed a mere Notepad ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:57, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:::That might well not change, since the config files will have weapon names in plain text that can be replaced (unless the names are actually images or something). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:49, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:I think it's stupid what the guy from DICE said: "''We modeled the gun after the regular G17 so the game would run faster...''" Huh? So if the gun is actually a 100% G17, why call G17C? Am I missing something here? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 04:10, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

::Modelling the holes ''would'' require they put an inside surface on the barrel, but I can't see how an engine that features buildings falling into hundreds of pieces of high-detail rubble would be screwed over by that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:47, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

== Corrected some information ==

I went through and fixed some things. There is a Korean M16 that has 4 firing modes and the shotgun in Op Gullotine is a Remington 870 which you can tell by looking at the rear sight. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:23, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:It has four? Cool, didn't know that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:41, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

== Lack of weapon variety ==

Theres so many AK and M4 style weapons but no real variety, wheres the steyr, uzi and such.
The snipers are pretty much useless after the first two so why change ?
Like 3 AK styled assault rifles ?
Am i missing the point because it seems Mw3 has a much better weapon variety.
When i unlocked the SkS it takes 4 bullets to kill. That's double what the other two took even though they're the same calibre. - Joey1666

:Devs are lazy. Quite a bunch of unlocks are derivatives of starting weapons. There are so many European weapons that could be put as unlocks, but nooooo! Maybe DICE are saving for DLCs? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:: Yeah when they said 10 times the unlocks, who knew they meant dogtags and pistols with new attachments. And we have to unlock the same attachments for every other gun over and over. Whats with the lack of guns ? :/ And Some weapons like the m16 take 6 bullets to kill... the ump takes 7 from my experience. So why even bother using these weapons when i can have a sniper that 2 hit kills with a RDS. The beta has dissapointed me. --[[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

:::Maybe the game will have a "Hardcore" mode like the Modern Warfere games. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:51, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Always fun when people complain about balance before the balance has had any meaningful time to settle. Tomorrow people will be complaining half these things are totally overpowered when they figure out how to use them properly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:34, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:::: Im not complaining about balance, if AR's take 6 hits to kill, i dont mind ill stick to my battle rifle. Just wish there was more variety is all. - Joey1666

:::::Well, from trying the PS3 beta it seemed all my weapons took ~6 hits to kill while all their weapons killed me instantly. Nothing like repeatedly being murdered by a spawncamper with, of all the goddamn things in the world, a UMP. >:( [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:23, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::All of the 5.56mm (and 9mm) weapons do 25 damage at point blank, making them 4 hit kill, and start dropping after about 20 feet, so 5 at midrange seems better, but could be 6, I can't see how far you're shooting. Also, all the 7.62mm (and .45) guns do 33.4 damage at point blank. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Well, I hope they fix the damage, from what I'm reading it's pretty stupid right now. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:35, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::: Personnally I like the fact that there are many AK & AR15 style firearms in it, and for that you have to unlock the attachements for each gun, I don't see a problem there, you just have to use the guns if you really want them. --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 12:11 October 2 2011 (CDT)

:::: Yeah i dont mind unlocking the same attachments over and over its just that they said there's 10 times the unlocks and not the same unlock 10 times however the amount of attachments is a nice touch. I just wish there was more weapons is all. - Joey1666

There, I removed all Kalashnikov and Stoner weapons and thats what is left, why are you guys complaining? The weapon selection is good. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:04, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

G3A3
AN-94
KH2002
AEK-971
F2000
AS VAL

Carbines (Engineer)

G36C
SCAR-H CQC
A-91
SG553

Machine Guns (Support)

M249E2
M60
M240
6P41
QYJ 88

Sniper Rifles (Recon)

SVD (RU)
M40A5
SV98
M98B
M82A3 (not in MP)

Battle Rifles (Recon)

M39 EMR
SKS

Sub-Machine Guns (All Kit)

P90TR
MP7A1
UMP45
PDR
PP2000

Shotguns (All Kit)

870 MCS
M1014
USAS-12
Striker

Pistols (All Kit)

M9 (US)
MP443 (RU)
G17
M-45
MP412
T44
93R
G18

Once the main game comes out, we'll all see the diversity, alot of the weapons in the Beta are mostly there for testing purposes, I haven't even seen anyone unlock ALL the weapons yet in the Beta so I'm not sure how many exist there. Plus we might also see more weapon diversity in the Singleplayer [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:12, 2 October 2011 (CDT)
:To add on to my reply, I should also mention that while yes I feel a little disappointed that they didn't add some other "common" weapons like a traditional MP5 or some other weapons like certain Pump Action Shotguns, it doesn't really phase me too much, because from what I've seen thus far they've pretty much nailed some of the roles appriopriately. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:23, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:: Ok so ive done a bit of research, veteran gives you one extra weapon, Co-op gives you 6 extra weapons and the first expansion gives you 10 weapons.... thats 17 more weapons. I feel more comfortable now :) Not only that but theres plans for more expansions :) http://mp1st.com/2011/10/02/leaked-weapon-list-for-battlefield-3-back-to-karkand-dlc/ - Joey1666

::In realistic terms 9mm subguns and indeed subguns in general have fallen out of favour since the 80s / 90s and largely replaced by 5.56mm carbine rifles in their traditional roles as bad guys started wearing body armour. From what I've heard, neither the UMP or the MP7 did anything like as well as their older brother. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:28, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:Not quite right. The co-op and veteran weapons are among the list we have now, only the Back To Karkand expantion give new weapons.

== Something that someone should suggest to the Battlefield Twitter ==

I don't have a Twitter so I would appreciate if someone did this for me. I want a option where I can set my spawn prefences. Right now I'm using the UMP 45 and each time I spawn, I set it to 2 round burst and turn off the tac light till I need it. I would like if I can set an option that I spawn the way I want and not full auto. Most of the time I don't use full auto unless its a machine gun. Ghost Recon had this option and I liked it. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:26, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

== Excited ==

Im excited that this game will be more realistic than most others. I like the fact we will also be able to use selector switches. Did I hear right? The UMP-45 has a two round burst mode? I wasn't aware the UMP had a burst mode. I always thought it had Semi and auto.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:It can have a semi, 2-round burst, auto trigger group option. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:48, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:Duh, that's what manufacturer's sites for ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:08, 3 October 2011 (CDT)
:[http://www.heckler-koch.de/HKWebText/detailPara/1926/82/4/20/213 UMP on H&K's European site]
:[http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/ump_specs.asp UMP on H&K's US site]

H&K is usually pretty good about having burst option trigger packs. You just don't hear about it very often because in most movies and television shows, the selector is always set to rock n roll.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 18:22, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==
http://www.enterbf3.com/viewtopic.php?t=4707&sid=91faa55311d7c875027fba7bd657d6fb

A whole bunch of leaked info, from the game files I believe. The working names for some SP missions, and all the Co-op and MP maps too, as well as the unique to BTK weapon list. Note that they incorrectly call the HK53 an MP5, even though it actually was called HK53 in BF2 :confused face: As of now it is unknown whether these will carry over to the standard game.

ARs

-L85A2

-FAMAS

Carbines

-QBZ-95B

-HK53

MGs

-QBB-95

-MG36

Sniper Rifles

-L96

-QBU-88

SMG

-PP-19

Shotgun

-Jackhammer

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:33, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:LOL, Jackhammer is back. That was the only prototype gun in BF2 xD
:'''@Alex''' HK53 was the carbine for Euro Force's Spec Ops class. Whether MP5 was the submachine gun for USMC's Anti-Tank class ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:08, 3 October 2011 (CDT)
:'''Edit:''' Ah, I've read the thread. There are probably going to be both weapons in the DLC \o/

::Sure would love to see the FAMAS. I was secretly hoping for the XM8 to return, but I guess you can't get everything. [[user:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 11:40, 3 October 2011

:::The XM8 did return, it's called the G36. They just didn't put it inside a silly plastic model spaceship. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:19, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::Well said. I have to agree you on that, I prefer the actual G36 rather than the 'uber-futuristic-tacticool' plastic prototype that is... wait, was... wait it didn't even leave the prototype stages... well anyways, that is the xm8 --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 12:23, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

== .44 Magnumn, M60, USAS-12 and Claymore gameplay ==

Found some videos of the Claymore and Revolver in action, looks like the T-44 is just called .44 Magnum any idea what kind of revolver it is? Also M60E4 is seen in one vid with a 200 round capacity and USAS-12 with a 7 round box mag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLW7WcIv_gA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExvIOmviDgw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 16:06, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:It's a [[Taurus Model 44]]. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:28, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:I guess DICE followed IW's example. They named Colt Anaconda simply ".44 Magnum" before. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:35, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

::I'm liking the new .44 Magnum from what Videos I've seen so far. Up close it seems to behave just like how a .44 Magnum should. At short-close range (10 or less feet) it seems to kill in one shot to the upper chest/head but further distances (up to say 30-40 feet) seem to kill in 2 shots to the body or one to the head. Plus with addition of a Scoped version, I can see this being the ideal "Mini-Sniper". I think the way there going about it is the MP412 is the better option up close while the .44 Mag is better at range. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 07:28, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== HK416 ==

I was reading the description of the HK416 on the main page and there is something I don't quite understand.
In the main page it states that the weapon in-game has 3 firing modes; semi, 3-round burst and auto and that there aren't many Stoner lower receivers that support 3 firing modes. But isn't the Stoner platform manufactured by KAC? And why is it being use on a HK manufactured weapon? And if that is the case, then shouldn't it be pointed out as custom HK416?

And my other question is about the licensing of the weapons. Since there are other HK weapons that goes by their correct names like the MP7A1, G36C, M27 IAR and M320. Why would they license those particular weapons and not the HK416, making DICE name it M416? I think is most likely a misunderstanding rather than a copyright issue.

Please correct me here if I'm wrong. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 01:24, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:Devs are hell-bent on making HK416 the US' service rifle. Can't think of any other reason. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:38, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:Maybe it's because "HK416" has HK's company name right there in the weapon name. It might be more of a copyright thing. [[User:Gato|Gato]] 21:01, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

Eugene Stoner is the inventor of the the AR 15/AR10/M16/M4. The name for the platform as a whole is the Stoner. There are over 100 manufacturers of AR 15s in the US. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:55, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:Probably what Masterius and Gato said, the Devs really, really want the HK416 to be the US standard (cause it ID better) :) And it has HK in the name, same reason the Glocks are G17/18. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:11, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

::Although Battlefield 2 had HK21 and HK53... And this makes me curious. Are they going to rename HK53 if/when it comes back? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:50, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Oh right, well then it's probably the same reason the Striker is still the DAO-12, they kept the name the same as it's always been in BF. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:52, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

== Glitch with the PDR? ==

Anyone else notice whenever you're using the PDR, It randomly switches from a 20 round mag to a 30 round mag? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 10:45, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

Apparently the extended mags are included by default. They're taken off if you have any barrel attachment. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 11:58, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

== New Screenshots ==
http://www.enterbf3.com/viewtopic.php?t=5033&sid=fa2af8c4723e98f64dadab8b5b9897d8
At the bottom. In one we can see a suppressed M40A5, and in on of the AKS-74U ones we can see his Coop buddy has a KH2002. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:54, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

== M26 MASS iron-sights ==

Does anyone remember which sight you would use in the beta if you were using an M26 mounted on one of the assault rifles? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:48, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

I never used the M26 in the beta, but with the M320 mounted on a rifle you would just zoom halfway in, a la the shotguns in previous Battlefield games. I reckon that the M26 would do the same. [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 17:56, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

:Same irons as the P90, Striker, F2000, M40A3, and M98B; the aftermarket ones. Oh wait, ON the AR? The AR's sights, like Crysis 2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:29, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

== Why is the "RPK 74M" chambered in 7.62x39 ==

[http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111001163136/battlefield/images/5/5f/RPK-74M.png Look here]... note the curvature of the magazine, the lack of the flash hider, the steel ribbed mag.... why can't games ever get the RPK right? Either putting a 75 round drum on the 74M, or this....

:A lot of the pics on Battlelog were wrong, like the G18's pic was a 17, but it does have the selector in game. Let me see an in game pic with the 7.62 mag, and I'll agree. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:36, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

::Rather odd that [http://web-vassets.ea.com/Assets/Richmedia/Image/Screenshots/ak74m_656x369.png?cb=1317663410 AK-74M] has proper image but [http://web-vassets.ea.com/Assets/Richmedia/Image/Screenshots/rpk_656x369.png?cb=1317663545 RPK-74M] has black RPK (not even RPKM) instead. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:06, 16 October 2011 (CDT)
::On a side note: do 45-round STANAG magazines even exist? Talking about [http://web-vassets.ea.com/Assets/Richmedia/Image/Screenshots/m27_656x369.png?cb=1317664019 M27].

[http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110929075021/battlefield/images/6/69/RPK_-_Beta.gif] that's it in first person, trust me the mag is a 7.62 ribbed steel mag in the game, I can't find a screenshot, but you can see it in the right light while reloading....

Yes! Not military issue, but I don't get the point of the M27 as a support weapon IRL, this helps at least. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=26456/Product/AR-15-M16-45-ROUND-MAGAZINE [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:37, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, cool. Didn't know that :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:49, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

::Like I didn't know that stuff about the AKs, it's what we're all here for :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:19, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah! :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:52, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

== Renders ==
Right now I am adding renders of all the weapons from the offical site. In case anyone thinks I missed them, the MP-443, M16A3, F2000 Tactical, KH2002, M16A4, AKS-74U, M4, A-91, and GP-30 do not have entries there yet, but I will add them here when they do. Well, except the GP-30, because I doubt it will get one... poor GP-30 :'( EDIT: Done! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:43, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

:Sorry for this being offtopic:
:I wish Devs added [http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=271&backPID=265&productID=89&pid_product=297&pidList=265&categorySelector=7&detail=&cHash=a367c3feaf GL1] to F2000, [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?Itemid=5&catid=20:all-other-weapons&id=36:the-hk79-underbarrel-grenade-launcher&option=com_content&view=article HK79] to G3 and [http://kbptula.ru/eng/str/strelk/556a91.htm the unnamed UGL] to A-91 (with the barrel length of 415 mm (same as AK-74M), it would be classified as assault rifle (compact one though, because its overall length is lesser than that of AK-74M with stock folded [http://zonawar.ru/rash_guns/rg_avtomat_a91m_eng.html] [http://zonawar.ru/rash_guns/rg_avtomat_ak-74m_eng.html] )). But that's probably would be too much to ask :( --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:54, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

That would have been nice, though, the F2000's GL1 is solved by not letting it mount a GL, and we haven't seen one mounted to the G3 yet. Who knows, maybe it will become an HK79 like the GP-30 :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:06, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

== KH2002 ==

Two things: this site doesn't have a KH2002 page, and if there's a newer version from 2009, shouldn't they have named it KH2009? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

:I can't even find any sources mentioning 2009. They just say KH2002 was revealed to public\entered service in 2004 and show the pictures of either long carrying handle or short carrying handle (the most seen one) variant :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:37, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

::There are 3 different versions of the KH2002 I have seen. The first is the initial 2002 model which has a short carry handle and front sight post at the front of the receiver. Then there is the 2006 model that has a long carry handle and no front sight post. Lastly there is the 2009 model that has the long carry handle but a barrel mounted front sight post along with a built up finger grooved front grip. Not sure about the dates, but this is deffinitely the way the KH2002 design progressed. I have also heard that there are three different barrel lengths for the KH2002, but I have only seen the standard length (pictured) and the short barrel, which was on an original model, with the barrel ending at the end of the receiver. Have never seen a picture of the DMR length barrel. As for the name being KH2002, all I can say is that M1903s made in the 30s were called M1903A1s and not M1930s. It is basically the same rifle, so why change the name. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:31, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

Yeah true, I guess I'm just thinking there should be some way to tell them apart by name. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:53, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

:After a bit of research, I found out that the version in this game (have seen exactly the same gun with and without front sight post so not sure which is the correct one, or maybe it is detached when optics are added which appear to be a copy of the old Colt 4x20 scope) is not called the Khaybar but the Sama, so will change the article accordingly. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:24, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

::[http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=44114 This the source], correct? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:24, 19 October 2011 (CDT)
:::First saw it mentioned on MilitaryPhotos.net, but it is mentioned on quite a few Iranian defence forums and blogs that the most recent version (the one in the game) is called the Sama rather than the Khaybar. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:25, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

== Makarov PB (6P9) ==

Dogtags :) http://www.enterbf3.com/news/579-159-battlefield-3-dog-tags/ What's interesting is, if you look below the M39 in the bottom rightish, there's a Makarov PB, beside the suppressed M9. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a suppressed MP-443, or if it will actually be in, but it's very interesting. Also note a lot of weapons seem to be missing, most likely since this isn't the full selection of dogtags. Oh, and there's two P90s, someone screwed up :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:30, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

:Ya the USAS-12 dogtag shows a SPAS-12 instead--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] 01:52, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

:The designer of PB isn't Makarov, it's Deryagin[http://zonawar.ru/rash_guns/rg_spesial_pb_eng.html] :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

::Oh, I was just assuming it was Makarov :/ At any rate, has it ever been in a BF game before? If it's in this one I'm gonna totally use it with the AS :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:52, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

A Makarov but still no USP? :( [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 08:29, 19 October 2011 (CDT)
:I'm sure MW3 will have more USPs than you can shake a stick at. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:24, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

== Optic changes ==

For some reason during the Faultline demo, the M4s were all equipped with ACOGs and the SAW gets the EOtech, but in the actual game, they reverse it where all the M4s during the mission have EOtechs and the SAW had the ACOG. Just something I noticed.

Also my problem is when an M4 is equipped with an ACOG, we still see the front sight post, but when we aimed, the front sight post disappeared when in reality, we should be able to see see it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:The reason for that is because most videogames don't ''do'' scopes, at least not properly. Typically (there's some exceptions) the game removes the rifle viewmodel completely and slaps an overlay over the screen to represent the scope. This results in glitches like drawing the scope a frame too early and ending up looking down the scope overlay at the rifle itself, or, as here, the front sight going AWOL along with the rest of the rifle. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:10, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

== Renders ==

I think we need to crop the renders down; that's a lot of white space. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:34, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

:Click the images and look at the sizes, if you do that you'll end up with them about 200 pixels across. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:54, 26 October 2011 (CDT)
:So we're padding images then? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:47, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

:I got those, and those are the originals, as big as they come. If we find bigger ones later, feel free to replace them, but the I after saving 50ish pics, resaving them all as jpegs so they'd work here, uploading them all one at a time, and adding them all to the page, I didn't feel like taking the time to crop :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:20, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

Incidentally those "in game renders" look to actually be the renders the pickup icons are the outlines of. Hence them lacking rear sights on weapons that can mount optics. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:59, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah they do, good catch. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:53, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

== I got this one ==

Just uploaded a few screens as tests, I'll do more when I'm awake enough to not suck horribly at the game. Also, this page is a hideous mess. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:07, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

:Just play SP Campaign on Easiest difficulty ;)
:BTW, is Co-op mode using the same missions as SP? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:48, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

::Apparently not, one of the guys on the forum says there's one co-op mission with a controllable helicopter. I wouldn't know, I've only owned the game for three hours. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:51, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

::: There is one mission where you spend the entire level in an AH1Z Viper and it's pretty much target practice to get used to the chopper controls as the enemy AI have a hard time figuring out if their weapons are actually guns or if they're just oddly shaped Easy Bake Ovens. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:51, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

== A question about the AEK ==

Is it really the AEK-971s or just a misnamed AEK-971? The render pic shows the 971 variant, as the 971s has its selector on the right side, differently angled pistol grip, plus collapsible buttstock. I'm just curious. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:15, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

:It's called AEK-971 in game, but I added the "s" as it has 3-round burst. If that's wrong feel free to change :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:53, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

::What '''bozitojugg3rn4ut''' said: the 'S' variants are easily identifiable by collapsible stock. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:31, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

::[[File:AEK-973S.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AEK-973S - 7.62x39mm]]

:::Then I suggest changing the name back to 971 and adding a note about the incorrect burst mode, which is also only on the "s" version. (It is interesting tho, that the prototype version had the selector on the right side, then they moved it to the left, and then back to the right again.) - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:57, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

::::The 3-round burst fire mode is present in the updated AEKs (not only AEK 'S' variants), so it isn't incorrect. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:09, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::right, my bad --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:21, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

:::EW that pistol grip is ugly! Okay, so it's right for the version in game to have 3-round burst, but it's the standard not the "s"? Sounds good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:23, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Pistol grip kind of reminds me of German FG-42, early version :P --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:52, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

::[[File:FG421stPattern.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FG-42, early version - 7.92x57mm]]

:::Not as ugly, but it certainly looks awkward [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:22, 31 October 2011 (CDT)

== Something Odd==

I noticed something odd when I played the campaign and I'm sure others have noticed too. I'll try not to spoil it for anyone who hasn't played yet. In the game's prologue, when you disarm the terrorist who has an UMP strapped to his back, your character fires a burst from the weapon out the window then takes the weapon. When the game gives you back control, it turns into a AKS-74U. I thought it might be a glitch but when it happened towards the end of the campaign again, I knew something was off.

Am I the only one that finds this odd? --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 23:37, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

I was watching my buddy play and noticed it as well. My first thought was "WTF did that AKS-74U come from!?"-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:42, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

It showed the correct models for me. What console are you playing on? It might be a console-specific glitch. [[User:Gato|Gato]] 02:20, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

:I thought I saw one on the ground before the guy attacked, I'll check. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:24, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

I played it on the 360 and it did the same for me as well [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:02, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

Saw the same thing on PC, it's weird. Also, you fire the AKS-74u, but when you take it, the magazine is full--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 08:12, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, that was pretty strange :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:21, 31 October 2011 (CDT)

::I played this on the PS3 at the midnight release when I was waiting to pick up my Xbox360 and on the PS3 it was an AK. For some reason, it's different on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:02, 31 October 2011 (CDT)

==Fun tip==

Fail the rat QTE on Uprising. The result is hilarious. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:17, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

:Guard Rat :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:51, 29 October 2011 (CDT)
:P.S. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/9197-Critical-Miss-Battlefield-3 Critical Miss: Battlefield 3]

Talk:Deus Ex: Human Revolution

2011-10-23T03:21:51Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Steiner-Bisley FR-27 SFR */

="Fictional" Weapons=

==Steiner-Bisley Zenith==
The Zenith is a polymer semi-automatic 10mm pistol developed by a fictional German weapon manufacturer, Steiner-Bisley. It is equipped with a R.I.S. and has a 10-round magazine. The Zenith can accept the suppressor and laser aiming module mods, and has a unique mod allowing it to fire armour-piercing bullets. It appears to be a "futurised" [[M1911]]-based pistol, with aesthetics similar to the [[Walther P99]].
[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|400px|none|World War II issued Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Walther-P99-Pistol.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Walther P99 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:DEHR-P-1.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| The Zenith pistol.]]
[[Image:DEHR-P-2.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| Jensen holding a Zenith pistol in the game, fitted with the suppressor and armour piercing mods.]]

==Stasiuk Arms Hurricane TMP-18==
The Hurricane TMP-18 (Tactical Machine Pistol Model 18) is a fully-automatic submachine gun made by Stasiuk Arms, Inc. It fires 9mm bullets from a 30-round magazine which can be upgraded to hold more. The gun is based on a mixture of the [[Steyr TMP]] (Overall shape, forward angled vertical foregrip, and magazine in grip orientation) and the [[Heckler & Koch MP5]] ( MP5A3 styled buttstock, receiver design, and sight design). In addition the charging handle is on the top and seems to be based on the [[Uzi]]'s charging handle and the handguard is borrowed from the [[Z-M LR 300]] assault rifle. It can be upgraded with the aforementioned hi-cap magazines and a compensator to reduce recoil.
[[Image:SteyrTMP.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Steyr TMP - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5A3 StockCollapsed.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:DEHR-TMP-2.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| The TMP-18 SMG.]]
[[Image:DEHR-TMP-1.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| Firing the TMP-18.]]
[[Image:DEHR-TMP-3.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| Reloading the TMP-18.]]
[[Image:DEHR-TMP-4.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| Fedorova shooting with dual-wielded TMP-18s in a trailer.]]
[[Image:DEHR-TMP-5.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| The futuristic compensator can be seen above the barrel.]]

==Steiner-Bisley FR-27 SFR==
The FR-27 SFR (Sanction Flechette Rifle) is an assault rifle based on the [[Magpul PDR]], with a carrying handle/top-rail similar to the [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|H&K G36C]]'s. In the game's fiction, it was developed by the Düsseldorf-based arms manufacturer Steiner-Bisley. It fires flechette rounds, much like the [[Steyr ACR]].

The FR-27 features an unusual break-open loading action similar to the hinged upper of an AR-15 pattern rifle, with the magazine (or possibly en-bloc clip) inserted into the open body of the weapon just in front of the trigger group and seemingly feeding upwards. This means that despite appearances, the weapon does not in fact have a bullpup layout. The structure under the barrel which appears to be a launcher actually serves as the rather oversized housing for the weapon's laser aiming module mod.

[[File:MagpulPDR.jpg|thumb|400px|none|A more recent model of the Magpul PDR - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:DEHR-FR27-1.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| The FR-27.]]
[[Image:DEHR-FR27-2.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| Jensen holding the FR-27 assault rifle.]]
[[Image:DEHR-FR27-3.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| Concept art showing Adam Jensen in his apartment with the FR-27 rifle and the Zenith pistol.]]
[[Image:DEHR-FR27-4.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px| The FR-27 in first person.]]

=Discussion=

I never played any of the other Deus Ex games but this looks interesting. I'm curious to see how this game turns out. But one question: The Hurricane TMP-18, it looks more like a modified Uzi with a stock of a MP5 then a Steyr TMP. I might be looking at it wrong and I might not be the BEST expert when it comes to weapons, but it doesn't look like its based on a Steyr TMP. [[User:SeanWolf]]
:I don't know, the Uzi does not have a fore-grip, that is why I wrote the TMP. Could be maybe the MP9 but that is technically a TMP. I'm not an expert either, but I think it is closer to the TMP/MP9 design. Anyways, someone with more "skill" with decide. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 23:46, 9 March 2011 (MSK)
::Well I will give you credit, You did good work on this page! I was actually thinking about creating this page, but I think you beat me too it! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:::Thank you. And your help is always welcome. And maybe you can help with this SR, cuz I have no idea:
[[Image:DEHR-SNIPER2-1.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|The SS-AP5 sniper rifle.]]
[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:41, 10 March 2011 (MSK)
::::Hm, wow this is tricky. It looks like a heavily modified PGM Ultima Ratio Commando. [[File:PGMURCom.jpg]] [[User:SeanWolf]]

:It seems to have the gas tube of an AS50, but the rest, eh. Looks like a real guess-the-components Frankengun. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:36, 10 March 2011 (MSK)
::Addition: The final game's model looks nothing like that anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:49, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== "Bullpup assault rifle." ==

Seen an image of this thing in a magazine, and, well, I'm not entirely sure it's actually a bullpup.

[[Image:DeusExHRNotBullpup.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It looks more like some kind of weird en-bloc setup, a bit like most of the guns in ''Battlefield 2142'' used. The "adaptable ammo" I'd guess is for the underbarrel launcher, though it's so long it'd stick clear of the front of it. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:58, 10 March 2011 (MSK)
:I have found a video in which we can see the reloading animation of the gun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAXOTugQGvs&feature=related (Note: the audio quality is piece of sh*t.) The reload can be seen after 08:05. Jensen inserts the mag above the trigger, like you do with the P90. As far as I know the P90 is a bullpup weapon so I think this one can be too. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:05, 10 March 2011 (MSK)
::Yeah, but the actual feed location of the P90 is way behind the trigger, which is at the front of the weapon; the same goes for the G11, which has the back of the magazine inside the stock. This one, the magazine is inserted right on top of the trigger group and the feed location would be in front of it, meaning it isn't a bullpup, just an unusual layout. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 15:00, 10 March 2011 (MSK)
:::If you are right and the feed loc is in the front of the rifle, then the barrel must be like 5 inch long... The game takes place in 2027 so could be. I will remove the "bullpup" from the main page. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:19, 10 March 2011 (MSK)
::::Well, unless it feeds from the rear of the flip-up loading port, and we'd need a much clearer video to say which way around the magazine / en-block clip is when he puts it into the weapon (one with the first-person reload would be nice); this, of course, operates under the assumption that they're trying to make the weapon workable rather than just cool-looking (BF2142 just threw around some BS excuse about "highly compressed ammo" to explain why a pistol-sized magazine could hold dozens of assault rifle rounds; perhaps they'll use the traditional series fallback of "it was nanomachines" as they did with ''DE: Invisible War's'' universal ammo). There does look to be something resembling an ejection port on the stock (presumably blanked off since Adam's wouldn't be lefty-configured), but I'm not sure that's what it is. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 17:39, 10 March 2011 (MSK)

That thing could only look more like a Masamune Shirow design (see "Ghost in the Shell") if it said "SEBURU ARMS" on the side of it. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 05:33, 6 April 2011 (CDT)

:That's what I was thinking when I saw it too. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:19, 26 August 2011 (CDT)
_______________________________________

It's easier with this information

I created this topic 2 months earlier

on the official wikia of Deus Ex

=> http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Deus_Ex:_Human_Revolution_weapons

cordialy,

ironintheskin from deusexwikia

*Well, if that whole block in the middle is the magazine rather than a flip-up loading port then it's certainly ''not'' a bullpup; given the shot on your Wiki shows the rear face of the magazine is flat, it must be feeding from in front of the trigger group. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 12:35, 12 March 2011 (MSK)

**Yup, picked up my copy today. It's not a bullpup, even if it looks like one externally, since the mag seems to be loaded facing either forwards or up, not backwards; that puts the feed location in front of the trigger group. Also, I got the collector's edition, which means the game threw a huge bucket of free stuff at me as soon as I started the second level, and I got a "collectable" Adam Jenson figure. I guess in case I want to start a collection of many Adam Jensons. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:19, 26 August 2011 (CDT)

***Also, the revolver in this game may have won the title of "best videogame revolver ever." Even with the really strange side-break frame. ''It shoots mini-grenades!'' :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:51, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Oooooh *3*. I just bought the game a while back but I can't play it because my computer's handware is totally screwed up. If I play ANY game my graphics card grinds and sputters louder than a freight train and my PC COMPLETELY dies within 5 mins! And even if I've had my PC on for a couple of minutes, the graphics card becomes too hot to touch! So I'm soon gonna be receiving my new "gaming rig" soon. :) btw, did you you find a real life bases for the the in-game revolver? I have the version of it in TF2 and it kinda looks like a furturized S&W 686 revolver. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:26, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

::::I used to have that with my CPU fan (turned out it wasn't actually touching the CPU) and my current graphics card seems to pack up if it's run under high strain (but that's talking the biggest Borderlands areas on the highest settings and 1980x1080 or Crysis with the settings jacked to "stupid"). Then again, I got this for PS3 rather than PC, and it still looks pretty fantastic, even if the pre-rendered cutcenes seem to be at a lower resolution than the actual game runs at. The Revolver, no, I'd say it's a little too out there to call a real-life basis. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:37, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::The "highest straining" game I've been playing on my PC is TF2, :D it grinds and sputters even when I'm not even doing anything on it . I already know the Diamondback is "a little too out there" I said so down there. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 05:20, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Also, I'm guessing the redesign of the heavy rifle was the usual poses / hand positions issue (ie, the Law of Conservation of Animation). Changing it to a more conventional layout means you don't have to figure out how to make Jensen blind-fire or crouch with a chainsaw-grip minigun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:45, 1 September 2011 (CDT)
:Game developers always do what's easier for themselves. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:30, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

== Revolver? ==

I know that there's a large frame revolver in this game from the trailers, its obviously the "magnum". From the wiki its called the diamond back .357.

"The Diamond Back .357 is a .357 magnum revolver made by Mustang Arms Ad-Tech Ltd. This revolver is really innovative, it uses an ingenious revolving cylinder magazine and a hybrid cartridge system to combine reloading speed with reliability and accommodate multiple ammo types."

It has a 5, 6, or 7 round cylinder/magazine(?)

:The Diamondback to me looks like a furturized S&W 629 revolver or a similar S&W revolver. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:29, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
::Never mind, I just looked at it on the wiki and it does not seem to be based on any known revolver design except for the fact it's a stainless steel revolver, silly me. :D It is a cool revolver design btw, the only real bizarre thing about the design is it has no rear sight?!. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:44, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Yeah, it really doesn't. I'm not entirely sure why, he just sights it with the front one only and this is supposed to count as aiming it. I guess you could BS it and claim his augments mean he only needs one reference point to aim since the known position of his hand is the other, but the game never says anything like that so it just qualifies as 'I can invent a way for this to make sense' excuse-making. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:07, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== Deleted guns that aren't real ==

Hybrid weapons don't count on this page. Either put them here or post about guns that exist in the real world. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:39, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
:I think those mostly pass the FEAR 2 test for "X with bits of a Y," maybe not the rifle so much. That's what we've usually used as a yardstick for these things. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:54, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

That's why I deleted the pistol because it doesn't count. The rest I left, are debatable, but they appear more like the real world counter part more than then others [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:59, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Barrett Model 98 Bravo

2011-10-20T23:22:56Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* ? */

the newer Barrett MRAD looks even more badass and the new acessories are out of control...dont know why it took so long to get a folding stock with all those features. Cant wait to see it on the big screen.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:25, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I redirected the page to only specify the M98 Bravo model, as the original Model 98 was a .416 semi-automatic rifle that didn't pass protype stages due to the release of the Model 99 bolt action. Besides appearing in one Ghost Recon game, there's little point documenting the gun on IMFDb. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== ? ==

I think that the original 98 should go first but I did not change it without discussing it first. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:05, 20 October 2011 (CDT)

:Well the page is called Barrett Model 98 '''Bravo'''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:12, 20 October 2011 (CDT)

::I meant changing the order of guns and renaming the page after that. Although, it's highly unlikely that the prototype will appear anywhere ever again so it can stay this way. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:19, 20 October 2011 (CDT)

:::I think the M98 is the more obscure version since it never entered production; putting the main production version as the lead and title makes more sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:41, 20 October 2011 (CDT)

::::If the first model was never in any movie, video game, etc, there is no need to have a section for it. We aren't a Firearm Wikipedia, just a wiki that shows guns actually in media.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:04, 20 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::It's in the first Ghost Recon... (see page) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:21, 20 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::I just woke up when I posted that and I never looked at the first page. I thought you were talking about whether it should be on the page like it hasn't appeared in anything.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:22, 20 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Barrett Model 98 Bravo

2011-10-20T19:04:34Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* ? */

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-10-18T05:23:42Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* dissappointment */

==Discussion==

Oh God, another Call of Duty. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:05, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

AK74su-type(AKS-74u)weapon in screenshot as well as FN FAL similar to the one in Modern Warfare 2.

Visible in this screenshot

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/prague_resistance_rioter_civ_02.jpg

Also, there's some type of Sig Sauer pistol in this screenshot on the chest

http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/sas_lmg.jpg

Looks like the M18 Smoke Grenade returns. -[[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:07 AM (EST)

I see a P90 lying on the floor in the premiere trailer, in what appears to be a subway station. Appears to follow the MW2 Design, with the iron sights instead of a built in red dot. -[[User:Timaman]] May 24, 2011 22:09 PM GMT+0

http://timaman.deviantart.com/art/Possible-P90-in-Mw3-210170147

I noticed what appears to be a holstered Colt 1911 on the UMP wielding SAS members right leg, you can see it just above where the picture finishes, at the bottom. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:08, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

:I saw that too, hopefully the MW1 1911 comes back, it better, but it also looks like it could be a P226 with wierd lighting. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

I hope they put an ejection port on the M4 this time.

== Title ==

This page should be moved to "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" since that is the official title. Don't let the "Modern Warfare 2" page confuse you, that's fucked up also. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:49, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I also think that the title should be the official title, so I already changed it. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:40, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

==Issues==

We have no confirmation from anyone that any of these images are legit. Should this page even exist? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't see any evidence proving to the contrary either. We'll live, if it's not legit, then it'll be taken off. Seems like an insanely elaborate hoax to basically render half of a game's weapon arsenal and create a ton of concept art, in addition to the images of the NPC skins and such. You could be right, but, in all likelihood... this is a leak of legitimate information.

If it is legit though, how do we know it's final? This could be a deliberate leak of outdated info and models. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:11, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

Even if it isn't final, it's still worthwhile to put in. The G3 was in a trailer for Modern Warfare 2, and the last time I checked, it was still on the imfdb page.

There is a update to this Modern Warfare 3 leak. Robert Bowling of Infinity Ward tweeted this: "A lot of hype & a lot of leaked info on #MW3, some still accurate, some not. To avoid spoiling the experience, I'd wait for the real reveal." So I'm guessing the leak IS legitimate [[User:SeanWolf]]

Well, as much as I think Bowling is a self-absorbed hipster, this is good. I assume the "tangible" pics and stuff like that are more concrete than some of the story details and map names "Plaza 2", was probably changed/cut. Either way, good for identifying stuff.

Oh god, the KSG. Here's hoping they use both of that weapon's mag tubes instead of restricting you to only one of them --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 23:02, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I am a huge fan of the KSG. Yeah, I really agree with you there. Though, in the previous Modern Warfares, they've limited the M1014 to the capacity of a KAC Masterkey for balancing purposes. Wouldn't get my hopes up.

:My biggest fear with the KSG is how IW or whoever is really making it will make the KSG act in-game. My thought process tells me "Somehow, I think their gonna make it fire like a double barrelled shotgun, two shots at the same time". Given IW's creditability and COD's inaccuracy with real world weapons in game, this to me seems like a likely possibility. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:38, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, but, would it really be that noticeable? I mean, what would be the difference over firing one round? It's still a pump-action, so regardless, you'd still have to rack the pump back. They didn't make the Ranger shotgun or the Olympia fire both rounds at the same time, they're double barreled as well.
:You actually got two firing triggers when you use a single Ranger --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:12, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Which is plausible, because it has two triggers on the real-world model. On the KSG, IF, big IF, they made it fire two rounds at the same time for some reason, they'd probably operate under the assumption that you're switching tubes between each shot. I don't know, just giving IW the benefit of the doubt for now. They don't seem to have messed up with any of their modern shotguns except in the realm of magazine capacity.

I might be the only one, but whats up with that weird aimpoint/ holographic sight combo on the M4? is that even possible?
: Yes, it is. EoTech makes [http://www.eotech-inc.com/product.php?id=50&cat=1 optics] specifically designed to be used in conjunction with their holosights. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:59, 28 May 2011 (CDT)
cool, I never knew that. Thanks

==Winchester Model 1887==
What in the name of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit did they do to that shotgun. *Pukes all over keyboard*. I mean, I love CoD as much as the next person (I just look past the mistakes (Russians with Tavors, and TDI Vectors)), but THAT just looks ridiculous!!! - [[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:09 AM (EST)

I mean, it's the "CoD Universe", IW can make the Russians use whatever weapons they want. It's no different/worse than Special Operations personnel using MP5k airsoft replicas [They did in MW2], or using MG4's for that matter, and ACR's. Call of Duty was never intended to be a military simulator, even less so starting to really become obvious with MW2 [A US Army General firing a revolver on the front lines]. However, on topic, the 1887 never should've been in the game in my opinion. There are plenty of shotguns, and IW seems to just copy and paste things from movies rather than being original. As for the depiction in MW3, at least they made the 1887 unique. Granted, it's silly, but for a game weapon... it's much more fitting to "tacticalize" it.
:Also as far as multiplayer is concerned, the removal of the enlarged loop means that you will no longer be able to flip cock it, therefore no longer able to dual wield... unless IW does it anyway which means that technically the player would be breaking their fingers every time they do a flip cock. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 17:10, 18 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, gonna' have to side with you on that one. IW showers in the over the top, unoriginal, borderline plagiarism from popular movies. There's no logical advantage for them to include the 1887 unless it's able to be dual wielded. But, like you said, they may have tacticalized it to be a "modern lever-action shotgun", whilst taking out the dual wield capability. We'll see.
:I'd rather see them give us a nice lever-action rifle than the 1887 again. Not enough games have them, and it's not like "the army doesn't use them" is a valid excuse in a series where a military firing range has Deagles lying around. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:54, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

I'd rather them just scrap lever actions altogether. Certainly, the argument of "The army doesn't use them" isn't really relevant, perhaps the argument "No army would even consider using it" is more fitting. But when nobody uses an overall design archetype (Lever Action) in a tactical setting, it seems silly to include it as a shotgun or not. In other words, in my opinion, lever actions have no place in Modern Warfare both the game and the concept. 1887 should've never been in MW2, because it set a precedent that it was okay to put absurdly pointless weapons in CoD games.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Several armies not only considered using them but actually did. That's rather more than the number of armies which have ever considered using the WA2000 or Desert Eagle, which last I checked was zero. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:12, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Which armies? Were they in this century? If not then it's irrelevant to the term "Modern". Most, if not all lever-action overall designs were prominent before the turn of the 20th century. No modern military uses lever-actions when they could just be using more modern semi-automatic weapons that operate on various methods (recoil/gas/etc).[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Um, Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1, and there's several modern designs like the Browning BLR. Most sniper rifles in military service are still manual actions (as opposed to marksman rifles, which are the semi-autos), they just tend to be bolt actions rather than lever or pump. Leverguns are just as common in military use as gas-operated rotating bolt pistols, $80,000 semi-auto rifles or off-axis blowback subguns (ie not), and more to the point, the setting of an invaded US means civilian weapons can be included within the setting. For example, you could have a level where you're a Marine who was on leave and only has his hunting rifle and his wits to make his way through enemy lines and assemble with his unit. Or given that such levels usually have a helper NPC, you're the Marine's kid who insisted on coming along to help fight the good fight. For bonus points, reveal halfway through the level that the kid is the Marine's daughter rather than his son; I'd pay good money to watch the forum fallout from that. "Kotick made me play as a GIRL! Now I have COOTIES!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:17, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:You do bring up a valid point, MW3 is based in an invasion US. Theoretically, they could add the civilian weapons for this reason, but CoD has always been a strictly military deal. But then again, MW2 involved an invasion US, and there were no civilian player-characters. Furthermore, "Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1", this game is not in WW1 and warfare/technology has changed quite a lot since then. There is nothing modern about the BLR's design, save for some features that make it easier to use (Moving trigger/detachable magazine), and still... it's not used by -any- military, current or otherwise. Bolt action sniper rifles are just that, bolt action, not lever action, regardless I'm talking about service rifles/shotguns not high end sniper rifles. Lever-action weapons are not common in militaries of this century (21st) by any means. Lever actions should not be included in a modern military setting, year 2000 and beyond. There are no lever actions being used by any current formal military force as far as I'm aware, certainly not the ones we're talking about (NATO countries, Russians). They've got no place in modern warfare because the design has been outclassed by others, hence why they're not used. Even in Khyber pass bootleg weapons from Pakistan/Afghanistan, or South American countries, it'd be a stretch to see them using lever-actions... the design is -that- outdated.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

::Again pointing out that no military has ever used or considered using the Desert Eagle either. Or the SPAS-12. Or the TDI Vector. Or the WA2000. CoD's weapon list has been in la-la land since we had German soldiers with StG-44s at Stalingrad in the first game and hasn't really come back since then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:00, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:For different reasons. No modern military uses lever-actions because they're outdated. Desert Eagle, should never have been in the game, not saying it should. It's not used because it's not practical. TDI Vector, it's not used because it's new and the benefits are negligeble. WA2000, it's a trophy weapon which has a price-tag of a BMW and less than 200 were built, obviously not a choice. SPAS-12, used by various militaries around the world (Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh), in addition to SWAT/SRT teams around the world. The weapons you listed are not used for various reasons, not for being antiquated technology. You can't deny that IW put the 1887 in because it was "badass" in the Terminator movie, that's the only reason. The STG44 thing doesn't bother me, seeing as it was used in WW2, which is the timeframe in which the game was set, though in limited numbers later on in real life. However, the 1887 has no purpose in game or out. The Desert Eagle, has no purpose in real-life but it does serve a role in game (High Damage sidearm with low mag capacity). Thus, the Desert Eagle is tolerable, the 1887 is just pointless. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the section is titled "Winchester Model 1887", not "Weapons that shouldn't be in the game" thus I would focus on this weapon, rather than the others in the game that shouldn't be there in my opinion. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 12:53, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not entirely sure why you're opposed to this, though; we've already got a laundry list of weapons no military would ever dream of using, so one more or less hardly matters. I'm saying I'd rather see a lever-action rifle than the 1887 again, since that would actually be a nice variation from the usual bolts and semi-autos and could be interesting for variation (levers being faster but harder to use while prone). I equally don't see the point of trolling out the antique shotgun again, this time with a stack of silly accessories on it that makes ''Black'' look positively restrained. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:50, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::A lever-action rifle would have been a great idea in Black Ops, but not in the "Modern" Warfare games where they should stick with using the correct "modern" weapons that each country actually uses, plus some other '''sensible''' new age weapons. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:33, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
:My point is that the design incorporating a lever-action, has no place in any modern military setting, at all, shotgun or rifle included. It'd be akin to using a flintlock in a modern warfare video game, it's simply outdated technology on a design level that's no longer used by modern military forces. That is why I'm opposed to it, it's not like the TDI Vector or Desert Eagle not being used (For different reasons, which I explained in depth, none of which includes an outdated design) because they are both modern weapons that incorporate modern designs. Bottom line, if you want lever-actions, play Red Dead Redemption. Granted it's a video game and not a military simulator at that but IW putting in outdated weaponry simply because it was in a movie, when they are supposed to be working with pseudo-real world operators and scenarios, is silly. The tacticalized variant as shown in MW3 is certainly a step in the right direction, if you want a pristine replica of a beautiful antique weapon, again, Call of Duty is not the appropriate place to search for such and nor should it be. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 11:12, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::In what way is it outdated? Modern lever actions fire faster than bolt actions, can use non-tube magazines (even detachable ones) and thus fire pointed bullets, and are of comparable accuracy to bolt actions. Aside from issues with firing while prone (which are hardly impossible to deal with) they're not outdated in any sense of the term, certainly not to the extent a flintlock is. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:30, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the issue of firing when prone is -highly- critical when compared to how modern-day bolt actions are used, mostly/all by snipers who fire from the prone position frequently. They are outdated as service rifles, like I said earlier in comparison to semi-automatic gas/recoil driven weapons. The main revolution of lever action was the rapid-fire aspect and magazine capacity (Compared to single-shot/clip-fed weapons of the era), which have all been outclassed by miles in reference to modern semi-automatic rifles. Like I said,''' agree to disagree''', not going anywhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::No, it's definately an issue of lack of will to do it rather than any technical inferiority. Armies are used to bolt actions in their manual rifles and don't see the need to change to weapons that have ''different'' advantages and disadvantages but don't offer a substantial overall improvement. It's hard enough persuading them to adopt things that ''do'' offer a substantial improvement, after all. Also, I have no idea why you keep bringing up semi-autos, not everything is a marksman rifle. I was never suggesting using a manual action weapon as a replacement for anything other than a ''different'' manual action. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Agreeing to disagree, could refute what you said with evidence/concepts but it's not going to do anything. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

The use of the 1887s in MW2 does make sense to some degree. a lot of countries have strict laws concerning shotguns, some even banning those that have more than two shots like Australia does. though Australia does have loopholes allowing the use of bolt action shotguns AND lever action shotguns like the beautiful model 1887 and the clones. Seeing that a piece of MW2 takes place in Brazil where the 1887s are first encountered, plus the fact that we don't know what the firearm laws are for that country in the MW2 world, and the fact that it's used by the unified Rio de Janeiro gang members who probably use whatever Brazil actually allows... then it makes complete sense. that being said, Brazil also makes many reproductions of existing brands like the Beretta 92f. One can easily argue that in the game, the country is doing the same and even making reproductions of the 1887. And since the gang is now organized, they could easily raid said weapons from the manufacturers. besides... the fact of the matter is that (atleast from what i remember)it's mostly the Brazilian gangs that use that shotgun, the only other place you can find it being under in the weapons cache while holding out in the house until all the data from the computer is transfered and that can be attributed to a person with a healthy obsession with guns...
[[User:Aztec coyote|Aztec coyote]]

==Barrett M107/M82 Error==

It seems IW thinks that there's some sort of bolt/ejection port, being visible on the left side of the receiver of the M107. As far as I know, the left side is flat and the right hand side has the bolt mechanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's like this in MW2 and not in CoD4.

To clarify, it seems that IW has made the M107 receiver open on both sides, rather than just having the bolt handle on the right. Probably should be corrected, but can be lived with. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:57, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

== Gunz ==

Is it just me or anyone else agrees that these guns are f#&king ugly? What did they do to that poor MP5A2? Not to mention the Winchester and the "AK-47". BTW the game will take place around 2012, yet the Russians will still use the "AK-47". Well, it is still better than them using U.S. guns, right? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:26, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

How do you know the game will take place in 2012? If Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare took place in 2011, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is 5 years later (2016), so how MW3, which is a direct sequel to MW2, taking place in 2012? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:39, 14 May 2011 (CDT)
:Sorry, my bad, I thought COD4 was in 2007 since it was releases in that year. I knew that MW2 was 5 years later, thats why I wrote 2012. Anyways, that won't make the difference. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:32, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Again, Call of Duty was never meant to be a military simulator. If you want realism, look at the Battlefield series and ARMA series. Call of Duty has always been a playable action movie, that happens to be based in a real-world (First 1-3, Black Ops, WaW) or fictional (Modern Warfare) war.

Russians have used AK variants since the late 1940's... that's over sixty years of use. What's so outlandish about them using it for another twenty? IW calls it an "AK-47" because that's what people identify as the general AK weapon pattern. It's a video game. How exactly is it better than them using US weapons? Many foreign nations use the AR platform, amongst other weapon systems designed in the United States. Hell, most of the United States' small arms are provided/designed by Fabrique Nationale, a Belgian company. As I said before, it's a "Call of Duty Universe", not an explicitly real world universe, IW has creative license to put whatever weapons in the hands of whatever faction they see fit.

As for the weapons, they look fine to me. Some have been tacticalized, yes, but it makes them unique to the game and in specific cases like the 1887, it makes it more plausible for an almost 130 year old weapon to be included in a Modern setting used by people who have access to better designed shotguns. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I am wondering why we don't see an 870 or a Mossberg in these games? It's weird as well that they would include a really old gun like the 1887 but none of the pump actions. And the SPAS-12 doesn't count because it's been overused in this series to death. I bet for the ACR's reload animation, they are not going to have the model press a button to release the bolt. Most likely they'll just reuse the AK reload animation and have the shooting hand reach over and rack the charging handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:17, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:For the sake of it, I do wish we could have a 870 or a Mossberg in-game, even if it was one of these "Starter" guns. I wouldn't care if it was "Tacticalized" or not, as long as it's there. I could somehow imagine in a perfect world following MW2 as an example, a Remington 870 MCS as a primary shotgun loaded with slugs and a Aimpoint Sight with the Bling Perk while using a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser that was "Tacticalized" as a secondary shotgun loaded with Buckshot. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:43, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Thank God they are bringing back a full size MP5. I am so sick of the MP5K. And what is up with the magazine on the M4? Is it supposed to be a 20 rounder or they messed up the design again? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:19, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:Amen to that! Though somewhere in the back of mind, I sometimes think they're gonna add the MP5K back in as some "other" weapon, maybe if they were to stick to MW2 styling, I could imagine it as a Machine Pistol alongside maybe the PP-2000 and TMP. Also, I can't escape the feeling that IW is gonna try and copy Treyarch in some way by trying to copy Black Op's example with the AK(S)-74U and attach a grenade launcher to it. It would be awesome all the same though. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:55, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well at this point, I've just given up on reload animations in Call of Duty. I agree, I am stoked for the full sized MP5. As for the M4, no clue, could be to balance it somehow? But, these are probably early development screens, wouldn't put it on being concrete just yet. If a MW3 forum goes up, I'll see about getting a 30 round magazine back for the M4 as I did see the MW2 M4 in a few of the screens on the Kotaku locations video. Shotguns, yeah, 870 would be lovely but... I could care less, why use a shotgun when you've got 7.62x51

Seems like they're pretty covered on the shotgun front, except for a traditional 870 style. But, I am a bit worried regarding the LMG's. None shown. Banking on the M27 IAR. CoD4, M4 with Bandolier, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact on Hardcore was my impromptu IAR class, always loved the concept. Either way, would like to see the return of a M249 variant (Mk 46/Mk 48). [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I had heard rumours that the M249 was reappearing as a "Possible" returning LMG. But I had also heard that somewhere, IW was going to make three variants of MG's featured in Multiplayer. Ranging from Light Support type weapons similar to "Black Ops", with 30 round magazines like the HK21 or RPK or just modified assault rifles with a bigger magazine, as well as other LMG's and SAW's like the M249, with GPMG's being the M240 or the M60 and finally mounted HMG's like the Browning M2 fixed into certain tactical positions.

Source? Wouldn't get my hopes up for ADDING any weapon classes, at least until I saw proof. IW tends to want to simplify things, not divide things up and add diversity. However, even if they put all of those types into the overall LMG category, would be wonderful. M27 IAR, Mk 46/48, RPD, PKM, MG3, M240L are my top choices.

However, sniper rifles are a subject of concern for me as well. MW2 including ONE bolt-action? This was a fatal flaw for me, the M40A3 was so much fun to use and the Cheytac kind of sucks. They've got a good lineup of sniper rifles here, RSASS, M107, EBR, but no bolt-action. RSASS is a good move because I've always wanted an SR-25 type weapon in CoD. They need a Russian sniper rifle of course and a few bolt actions (M40A5 or XM2010, Desert Tactical SRS (Bullpup bolt-action), and L115A3 would be all good choices). In addition, I've always wanted to see a Mk 12 SPR sniper rifle in CoD, something that did low damage but had a high magazine capacity. Would be great for Hardcore. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

very exciting looking at those leaked pics....and i gotta say its a nice line-up of guns so far...some old standard ones (M4, AK-47; M107) and some new ones i've never seen before like that KSG or the Magpul FMG (OMG the box gun from Robocop2!!!). Also i'm very glad to see the old 203 gone in favor for the newer M320! The AA-12 is cool but i didnt like it in MW2...it was just not that usefull because the boxmag so was spent within a second. the 20round drum mag would make so much more sence.
I really hope they bring back the M249, preferebly as the Mk46 or even Mk48 and introduce some new Russian MG like the PKM with the Blackwater-Rail System.
One question though: is the KSG something very special or simply a bullpup pump-action shotgun? [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 07:20, 16 May 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, again with the sporterized AK's, dont suppose they actually look at what the Russians use.

:The Russians have been looking at AK's with various rail systems. Take a look at the AK-200. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/27/ak-200-rifle-the-21st-century-ak/. Regardless, it's Call of Duty, not a simulator by any means. The AK in MW3 looks to be a step in the right direction over the airsoft-inspired replica in MW2. The KSG is a pump action shotgun which features the use of two tubes, doubling the capacity of a normal shotgun in this configuration and gives the operator the ability to switch tube magazines once one is expended (Due to magazine capacity laws). But in practice, it features a 14+1 magazine capacity, which is astounding when compared to normally configured shotguns like Remington 870's. Also, it features a twelve and I believe six o'clock rail for mounting of accessories. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:If it's got a six o'clock rail, does that mean we'll be able to stick a Masterkey on it and have a shotgun with a back-up shotgun? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

The KSG is a pump-action shotgun. If you did put an underbarrel-type shotgun on it, then you wouldn't have enough room to pull the pump back enough to eject a shell. Besides, that would be unnecessary and impractical. The KSG had two magazine tubes, so if you needed a breaching round, beanbag round, or etc. instead of buckshot, then you could just switch the feed over to swap from lethal to nonlethal. A question about the MP5, what differences are there between the Navy and A2 model? Other than the lower receiver being metal with a new trigger group instead of synthetic with a German fire selector layout. The MP5 in MW3 looks like a Navy model but I'm guessing there's a reason someone changed it to A2. Just wondering if I was wrong. And how do I automatically leave a sig at the end of my messages? xD new to the site. -

:You use the masterkey as the pump, silly. It's genius! (Or rather, it's no less silly than some of the things the series ''has'' done in the past). Leaving a sig is four tildes (~) in a row. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:27, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:But if you used the masterkey then it would take up all the ro- oh I see what you did there. And thanks for the sig help. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 01:34, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:Plus, any under-barrel attachments have been confined to the Assault Rifle class, and more recently, the AK74su "SMG" in Black Ops, which in real life... is still an Assault Rifle. Shotguns have no precedent in CoD for having under-barrel attachments of any sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Can someone help me identify the weapon the guy on the front-right is holding? Looks like an RPD or RPK to me http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/wtfisthisk.jpg/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:44, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: Pretty sure that's the RPD, yep. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:21, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Only not-yet-seen weapons I saw during the trailer were the P90 at 0:32, FAMAS at 0:35, UMP at 1:04, RPD at 0:52, and an unknown weapon with a flashlight at 0:55, looks to be a bullpup of some sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:38, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: The weapon at 0:55 looks like an AUG to me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

My thoughts exactly, or a Tavor. The barrel looks too thick to be either though, might be a flashlight/suppressor? [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:10, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==HELL YEAH==

the guns are supposed to look rusty and mangled and outdated because its a fully urban war environment like homefont

i think the new model looks badass in a stealthy black camo

does anyone know if these pictures have been confirmed to be real

: Robert Bowling said that the leaks were mostly accurate, likely alluding to the fact that they're from an early build of the game. So some stuff might've changed, but this is what we know so far. What model are you talking about specifically? I don't really see rusty and mangled anywhere, the weapons all look pretty pristine to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:35, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

==The tossed magazine doesnt look right==
In the newest trailer I noticed that a soldier tosses a magazine to the player but it's easy to see that you cant see any bullets in the top of it. I don't know that much about M4A1 magazines. Is there a door that opens when it's inserted into the rifle, did the devs over-look this or what?

: Probably due to either being lazy or being an early build of the game. IW's track record is so-so for magazines, on a normal AR-15 magazine, there are two lips at the top of the magazine and the rounds feed through them. The magazine will spend most of the time in game, being lodged in the weapon, so it's not really that big of a deal to me personally. But you are correct, the magazine model doesn't look 100% accurate. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:06, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Thanks. The real world acuracy and high detail in the MW games is what sets them apart from all the other games based on modern combat. I hope that was just an eary build.

Sorry Anon, but no, if you want real world accuracy play something like ARMA, or even Battlefield, but not COD. The weapons either aren't handled properly, or have thing on them that would never be, or are mounted wrong, or are used by people who never would, or have stats that don't work for the real weapon at all, or are out of scale, and they STILL havn't added +1 in the chamber. For better or for worse COD is a playable action movie, and the graphics literally havn't been changed since COD4. I can't really comment on 1, 2, or 3, but MW fits your description well, it's not a military simulator, but it was quite good. WAW was okay, but it was pretty much just the COD4 Marine missions for the whole game, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot etc. MW2's singleplayer was good but not amazing, there was too much that was just a little too far fetched, and a few glaring plotholes. MW was like a war movie (Saving Private Ryan/Black Hawk Down/etc.), but MW2 is an action movie, that's why it wasn't up to par with MW in my opinion. BO had potential for a good singleplayer, but the had a serious, conspiracy filled plot, and tried to make it a bad ass action movie at the same time, and those don't go together very well. COD games have good potential, but it always seems to get wasted. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

==Plot Holes==
So the campaign takes place in (from what appeared in the leak) New York, France and Germany. Besides the massive stupidity of Russia invading the U.S. East-to-West. How would Russia manage to fight it's way through Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine, the Baltic states and the Czech Republic into Germany AND then through Belgium and Holland to get into France. At this point, I think even China would be over-extended watching over eight modern, democratic nations and be fighting a a war with two of the strongest of these plus the U.S. But at this point Activision could release a fifteen minute demo and it'll still sell millions of copies. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:16, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A possible explanation is that in their new found "ultra-nationalist" rage, they take over or make a new alliance with all the former warsaw pact countries. That would explain a few things on the man power problem, a possible explanation is that similar defense system breaches occur in the attacked areas (like in MW2 DC got waylayed pretty early). Maybe NATO got complacent with the Russian threat and signed a non-aggression pact(WWII). Still I agree with you there is no way in hell they could attack NYC, Germaney, England, and France all at the same time having already attacked the eastren seaboard in Mw2. Seeing as CoD is the 10 ton ape in the consumers eyes, it really wont matter.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 01:44, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

::The plot for London getting attacked is (or atleast was) that terrorists funded by the Russians attack London. The SAS raid part of the Docklands (I think that is East London) where the Russian terrorists are, but basically end up chasing them all over London, ending with a gun fight infront of Parliament (surely we'd also see one of the Guard regiments as well, since they're both in London?). Whilst I'll let the "London's Burning" bit of the plot slide as it is plausible (if ''very'' unlikely), I agree, the rest doesn't seem to make sense. But hey-ho, this is CodMod, where reality takes a back seat so that we can enjoy bombing around in Berlin, Paris, NYC and London... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Guns ==

I like the way few of currently known guns are going. AK-47 looks a lot more like rifle that Russian Army may use some time. It has cheapest Crane Stock and not one of most espensive ones (Yeah, Vltor one is expensive as fuck) and handguard is basically one ris rail on each side with rail covers. Not full plastic handguard. G36 is plain and easy which is both suprising and awesome. M4 seems like its pretty cheap too. I like that Czech Vzor 61 is back, hope it will be in hands of Czech partisans. Anyway, few guns are ugly like fuck. For example that winchester or MP5.

Well, game will suck like all of those "new" CoDs from World At War to Black Ops. But it will be atleast a bit interesting. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:04, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: I don't understand what you mean by "cheap". There's nothing wrong with Crane stocks... The AK in MW3 doesn't even have a Crane stock, it's a standard LE stock, which is a good stock. You don't need a Vltor stock to shoot a weapon accurately. AK rails don't have to be crazy railed hanguards like in MW2, which was largely inspired by an airsoft weapon. See Travis Haley's one-off MAG-K from Magpul, using the Ultimak rail system. The cost of a component doesn't effect how it behaves in game, or in real life for that matter, it's reliability and effectiveness that count. What's wrong with the handguard with a rail on each side with rail covers? That's generally what rail systems are. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:13, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Yes, i know. Thats what i meant. Any army on world (especially Russian) would hardly put shitload of ris rifles on their weapon and overpriced stocks. By cheap, i meant cheaper than MW2.

: I still don't understand what you mean by cheaper. How? Like, in real world money costs? In aesthetic looks? The Russians are putting different rail systems in their modern AK's, see my AK-200 link from Firearmblog. Russia has arguably one of the most powerful and modern militaries in the world, what would discourage them from placing RIS rails on their service rifles like everyone else? Tapco, the company that makes the rail system and stock adapter for the AK in MW2 is one of the cheaper companies in terms of quality and price, Tapco still makes good stuff regardless. Just confused as to what you mean by cheap. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:09, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: No one else ticked off that in any of the videos or demos present, there have been NO new guns? Granted, the AA-12 has a new skin, and so does the MP5, but no drum mags for the AA-12? And to be fair, I preferred the MP5K. But seriously, in MW2's Cliffhanger demo, there was tonnes of new weapons and attachments shown, like the ACR, FAMAS and the new AK. But so far, the only "new" guns that were leaked in images haven't been shown. I'm really disappointed in that. [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 12:12, 14 June 2011

== Pistols ==

Am I the only one completely pumped for the P99 and P226? Hopefully both are usable and rendered well. I tend to get more excited over the pistols rather than assault rifles in video games.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:15, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Nope, you're not the only one. I'm ''slightly'' disappointed that they seem to be going with the 1st-gen model, but otherwise, I'm hoping for the execution, so to speak, to be superb and the rest of the game to be worth 60 bucks. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 23:25, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

I'm looking forward to seeing the SIG pistol too. Always had a soft spot for German guns. I hope it's usable and not just part of a character model ... [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 23:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Looking forward to both, and more. Preferably the USP and M1911. M1911 was epic in MW1 and in MW2 they took it away from multiplayer, and in Black Ops they made it black in singleplayer and chrome in multiplayer for some silly reason. Hopefully they got the silver/chrome out of their systems with the P99 already. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:36, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Part of me says "Yes! A game that you can fire a P99 and it's NOT James Bond." Another part of me says that Hand Guns, unless automatic, serve no perpise in todays FPS world. Oh I miss the Golden days.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:55, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:That's funny, since I PWN most people in FPS' who have Assault rifles or Submachine guns with my '''semi-automatic''' handguns, especially in MW1 with my USP45 :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:53, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::I agree, COD4's USP was amazing. In COD4 handguns were how game handguns should be. Most people suck with them, but if you get good with pistols, they kick ass. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:16, 29 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Yeah, most people in WM1 waste a whole pistol mag by rapid firing at me (even with a Desert Eagle!) and I just double-tap them in the chest, end of story. One time I ran into three guys at the same time in a small room and I just wiped them all out in seconds and then two more showed up (one had a SAW!) and I rapidly took them out before they could fire a single shot. All in all, I wiped out five guys with a my USP45 in about 10 seconds! That's why my friends nick-named me Vincent, you know, from the movie [[Collateral]], because I can take down multiple people very quickly with a USP45. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:44, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::::I start to get annoyed in most FPS when the pistols are severely underpowered. Like in Black Ops- in reality a few shots from the 1911 would put somebody down, but I've had instances where it takes one and a half magazines. I still agree that MW1 got the pistols right, and IMO it is the best CoD to date.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:25, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Thats what I did when I sniped in CoD4. Since I suck at sniping, i usually got more 1911 kills than R700 kills. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 12:36, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I agree, COD4 had pistols right, amongst other things. I am a bit worried about the Machine Pistols continuing from MW2, it's not fun going against snipers who are so well armed. A sniper should have a pistol and his rifle, that's it... not an Uzi... especially not a Raffica that's essentially an M16. Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense. In MW2, snipers use their MP's to assault positions and run around as if they had an SMG. This isn't cool. Regardless, I think they need to make sniper rifles less of a close range deal. People pride themselves on using the Intervention at close range, and using the M40 ACOG to no-scope. This is so against what those two weapons are designed for I can't even think straight. But, this's off topic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:48, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Arg, yes, I HATE quickscoping soooo much, but yeah, the balance to snipers is they only get a pistol, so they (are supposed to be) stuck to long range fighting. Oh, and I hope shotguns are better, not like MW2 1887 better, like MW1 W1200 better. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:43, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
:The funny thing is that real US snipers use a M16 or a M4/M4A1 as they're backup weapon for they're sniper rifle along side a possible M9 pistol which would be a backup, backup weapon. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Don't quite see how relevant this is. As I've said before, CoD isn't a simulator. Also, I distinctly said "Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense", in a paragraph and in a section regarding MW3, a video game, in order to defuse any realism comments. It's simply not fun/balanced, in my opinion. In real warfare, yeah, there's really no room for fairness... but it's a game that can be adjusted to be the most fun for everyone. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:19, 1 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I know, just say'n. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:I understand that quickscoping takes skill, but it still makes me sooo mad. I think that they should find a way to limit sniper rifles to long range only. Anyway, back on topic, I realized that Quantum of Solace actually got the pistols right too. Two or three shots from a 9mm puts someone down and one to two from a .45. This might be because the game really focuses around the P99 and other pistols more than rifles/submachine guns.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Doing something that's silly can still take skill. Putting my hand in the mouth of a Shark and yanking it out again without a scratch takes skill, but it's still silly. Skill can't be the sole factor in weighing an action's legitimacy. There should be no ACOG option for any sniper rifle, especially bolt actions. Period. I'd be in favor of making a 6x or Variable Magnification scope available for sniper rifles (and assault rifles in the case of the former). My point is not that quickscoping is done, it's that IW has created a game in which it's possible. It needs to be made impossible. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:36, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Very well said, it is not legitimate because it takes skill, you might as well put Rock Band gameplay in and FPS if you think like that. COD may ot be a simulator, in the sense of what people use, unlikely events, etc, but every FPS needs to have the weapons used properly, in a technical sense, and so you can't snipe with a compact pistol, or quickscope, etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:12, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

It would be so nice to see a stealth mission where you sneak into a complex (probably as price and soap) to kill a leader and you have to sneak through hallways and vents with suppressed P99's with a fellow soldier like in Prypiat in COD4. WHY cant this happen. It would be a nice change of pace and not feel like a straight rip off of All Gilled Up like Contingency did in MW2.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:37, 06 June 2011 (CDT)

:These are nice additions, but I'm still hoping for an XD or XD(m) -- preferably in .45 caliber. :P [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:03, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==
Is it possible that the soldier catching the magazine could be holding a [[Armalite AR-10|AR-10]] 7.62x51mm rifle? Since the developers finally learned about magnifiers maybe they think they could make a hybrid sniper/assault rifle by using a bigger bullet? I just don't see a reason why soldiers would be using 20 round 5.56 magazines unless they figured out it bigger magazines don't work well in prone. Plus we do see that fire selector switch on semi? I personally think it's a AR-10 with a shortened barrel.
:Sorry dude, but the mag is too small to be a 7.62x51mm, it's defiantly a 556'er. So it's a goof on IW's part, at least for now. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr.
Wolf]] 08:31, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::Here's a thought, in Black Op's they modelled some guns with Extended Magazines when the "Extended Magazines Attachment" was added, perhaps IW has done the same? Maybe the 30 rounders are extended mags, while they revert to 20 rounders for default? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Well that's just dumb. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:02, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::And yet they made it so that an M4A1 could carry 45 round magazines without changing the magazine on the model in MW2. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:15, 27 May 2011 (CDT)
: Yeah, there's no way it's an AR-10. They've already got something similar to an AR-10 in the RSASS, which is akin to the SR-25/M110. Draco, my thoughts as well. It still doesn't make sense, but if extended magazines show up on the gun as a 30 rounder, would work. That in my opinion, is Black Ops' greatest contributing to CoD, taking abilities away from perks and adding them to attachments. Example, the taped/dual magazines in Black Ops, gave a slightly faster reload time and added more ammunition in total. This took an emphasis off of having Scavenger to last any long period of time and allowed people to balance Bling and Sleight of Hand.

: Furthermore, everyone seems to think that IW is making a system whereby one folds down the 3x magnifier and uses the EOTech singularly and vice versa. I really think IW will be using an EOTech as a separate attachment, and a magnified EOTech as its version of an ACOG. I have yet to see a picture with a regular ACOG, correct me if I'm wrong. By all means, it would be preferable to have it behave like in real life where you could use both or the EOTech in different instances, but sadly I think IW may just be saving on development time by combining the two. However, what I think is more likely/logical is for them to include a traditional RDS/Reflex, and an ACOG, while including the EOTech with magnifier as one attachment to make it different from the RDS.

: IW could also be making the M4 with a 20 round magazine because they want it to -act- like a 7.62x51 NATO, i.e. be more powerful, so therefore they'd have to balance the ammunition capacity. IW is notorious for making weapons with silly statistics, like the SCAR-H being 7.62x51 NATO and having a very small amount of recoil on full-auto.

::I doubt that. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::If anything, it seems the most logical explanation for them making a 20 round magazine standard on the M4. The M4 was one of the weakest assault rifles in MW2, so it's logical that they'd try and up the damage on it and offset this increased damage with a smaller magazine/semi-automatic fire rate. It's still silly, but IW isn't dumb. They may not be well known for making a realistic game, but balance is kind of their forte, even if it's manifested by making weapons have odd properties. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::You know what, It would be really funny if IW made the 20-round magazine hold 30 rounds anyway, lol. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:48, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:PS - There is a picture of the MP5 with an ACOG from CoD4 in the leaked pictures from Kotaku, assuming this won't be in game. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:45, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's because they're comparing the MW3 MP5 with the MW1 and 2 MP5s. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 05:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::That's also why I put that PS there, it's a toss up between a comparison and including them as variants. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:21, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Cover Art ==
What is that the dude is holding on the cover art? It first glance I thought it was a TAR21 or something similar, but now I'm thinking its an M4 of some sort, but with an AFG Magpul grip attached instead. Could someone clear this up for me? --[[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 14:09 25 May 2011 (GMT+0)

: Yeah, it's just an AR variant with an AFG on it. It seems that IW has received a lot of sponsorship from Remington and Magpul, so it's possible that the AFG may be included as an attachment, though that's very doubtful. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:37, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: Ahh, its nice to choose having a grip, but choosing the actual grip model is a luxury we will probably never have in CoD. Ironicy, it is one of the thigns I want MW3 to deliver, weapon customization like in Army of Two 40th Day. That was/is a BEASTLY game for weapon customization. Like PMG on console. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 12:26, 26 May 2011 (GMT+0)

:: I think COD's decent enough in terms of weapon customization, one step they could take is allowing Bling Pro to give you three attachments (Not including M203/Masterkey in my opinion) and add a few more attachments that were in Black Ops and ones that aid in recoil/accuracy that aren't sights. Or, the more preferable solution in my eyes, is to separate attachments from perks altogether. In other words, get rid of Bling and just give people the ability to customize their weapons. There's no invisible wall preventing one from putting attachments on a weapon in real life. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:08, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Yeah, it worked for Brink afterall. just make it so having a grenade launcher stops you using throw lethal grenades, or stops you from having a first perk, simple as. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:12, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

== MP5SD2 ==

I think there was '''NO''' MP5SD in the reveal trailer. The COD wikia has it wrong. [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_3] It is a normal A2 with a suppressor, unless the SD2 has rails around the built-in suppressor. Well, this game is pure sci-fi so, I don't know.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:29, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Without agreeing or disagreeing (I'm indifferent toward this game at the moment), I don't see anything that would prevent IW from sticking rails on an MP5SD if they wanted. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:37, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Err... Guys? ==

Just remember that there's still no guarantee this is even getting released, depending on which way the pending lawsuit goes. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

*I imagine it'd come out regardless, just without the Modern Warfare brand if Activision loses. You know, like it was going to be with FEAR 2 being just "Project Origin" before Monolith bought the franchise from Activision. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::But if Activision loses, and can't use the MW brand, doesn't that also include, and mean they can't use the characters either? Like Price and MacTavish? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:48, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::I don't think so, even when it was "Project Origin" FEAR 2 was going to have Alma in it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:52, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::: If it is being pushed through to November, it's going to be released. Activision wouldn't risk losing their baby of a franchise to go out like that, they aren't dumb. COD games come out every Holiday season like the sun rises and sets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Flip-Up Sights ==

The german magazine GameStar did a preview on the game, apparently IW and Sledgehammer showed two levels of the game in London. And they write something about "flipping up sights" as a new feature. It isnt explained what this means exactly, nor is there any picture/video material of it, but it could be a hint about it. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:They're probably talking about that magnifier; I guess that means you really can control if it's used or not (D-pad function, perhaps). Games magazines can usually be relied on to get every piece of firearm terminology they try to use wrong since they learned gun terminology from video games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:24, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::They actually use the german term for Flip-Up sights, so i dont know. I posted the question in the comment sections, maybe i'll get an answer. But even if it's the magnifier, still an improvement. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:42, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::The minute I posted this, I got a response. You are right, she means the magnifier. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Either way, seems to be an improvement. Thanks for the info! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:23, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Samopal Vzor 58 ==
In Prague level (Czech Republic), Russian soldier can be seen holding an AK type gun that seems like Samopal Vzor 58. Off course its most probably just wrongly lighted AK-47, but it may sense that he captured it from Czech Army as it takes place in Czech Republic.

[[File:Samopal Vzor 58 MW3 probably.JPG|thumb|left|200px|Well, it would have been really awesome if IW included this rare weapon.]]

[[Image:800px-Sa 58-JH01.jpg|thumb|left|400px|'''Czech Sa. vz. 58P''' ''(Pěchotní aka "Infantry")'' with fixed stock - 7.62x39mm]]

Just look on it - It seems to lack AK ejecting port, it may lack top-mount RIS rifle and gas block looks shorter. Also, body looks almost tiny compared to 7.62 magazine.

:: There's already an AK variant/format weapon that's not of Czech design, IW wouldn't put another in just for kicks. What you're likely seeing is a lack of modeling, or lighting as you indicated, for example the M4 in MW2 didn't have an ejection port simply because it's a mirror image in terms of a weapon model, laziness on IW's part. As for the magazine, the mags have always been a bit oversized on MW AK's, but they're not ridiculous. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:31, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== New Weapons Confirmed ==

From reading several previews posted 5/26/2011, multiple games press have confirmed a few weapons. Modern Warfare 24/7 has a list of these previews here (http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/first-mw3-previews-screens) while the one that details the weapons by name are found here (http://aggregame.com/news/2011/05/26/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-preview/). Weapons confirmed in closed doors preview include: AK-47, P90, M4A1, Spas-12, AT-4, and XM-25. The XM-25 has been called the "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" or "a nod to the crossbow" in other previews. Also confirms the usage of a "hybrid" sight mixing acog and red dot and its use. Lastly, theres a "9-bang" which is a "cluster bomb" of flashbangs and/pr stun grenades that you throw (I don't know if that one is a real life thing but someone who's more versed in gun/warfare knowledge confirm please). Please update main imfdb page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

: Modernwarfare 247 is notorious for labeling firearms inaccurately, they did so with MW2 on several weapons before correcting it after the game came out. There's nothing in the Modernwarfare 247 article that says XM-25, but either way, it's not a sniper rifle by any means. Would be a cool inclusion if it's in. Dunno what the 9 bang thing is, stun grenades and flashbangs are increasingly irritating, I don't think they need to be made better by any means. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

You are correct that the Modernwarfare 247 article doesn't name the xm-25, I merely mentioned that it had a list a previews and that some of the previews do. The one paticulalrly from aggregame.com, which I linked, mentions weapons by name. Many articles of the gaming press, who clearly don't know guns like the people on here, claim a "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" on the New York level. Aggregame.com's article says this in the 3rd paragraph quote, "We see a new type of weapon used in this level called the XM25. This weapon uses a laser rangefinder to determine the distance to the target and once fired, detonated at the proper distance to produce an airburst effect. Anyone hiding will be properly taken out." Now, judging from the grammar used (though this is only a hypothetical analysis) he mentioned it being "called" an XM-25. Meaning that the game files at this stage of development identify it as such, not that he used it and was like "oh I know what this is". Judging from the description of many gaming press articles (again linked by modernwarfare24/7) it 'seems' to be the real thing. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

:Arg, I was just in the middle of adding that :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:55, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Ahhh fair enough, gotcha'. Hm, well I hope they actually make it semi-automatic and with a small overall ammunition capacity. IW seems to shower in explosions and knifing, when they're making a -shooter-. I dunno' why they don't focus on making their conventional firearms better. Either way, nice snag on the info. Though, I will still caution you on MW247, I encountered them in my MW2 forum days and they weren't reliable at all. The 9 bang thing is troubling, what the hell was wrong with the Stun/Flash grenandes? Stun Grenades are -way- overpowered in my opinion, granted being stunned is an effect of a common flashbang, but being paralyzed -and- blinded, isn't. Regular flashbangs are enough, nothing else. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:59, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah, I wouldn't mid COD so much if they toned down the knifing, seriously, it's not sothing you should use because you couldn't think to do anything else, it should be a very last ditch defence, this goes for all shooters. What's strange is when I play COD4 (cause I still play 4 :) ), there's very little knifing if you watch the killfeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:My thoughts exactly, Commando is silly. They had it right in CoD4. One thing that really bothers me, is that even on Hardcore, when I'm face to face and lighting the person up... it's still possible for them to knife me and walk away. Getting shot should interrupt the knife ability, and it shouldn't work faster than bullets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:30, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Exactly, it's not that it's one hit kill, it's that it's so damn fast! Bad Company 2 got the knife right, you press the button, and it kills them about a whole second (that's a long time) later, it's mostly an assassination weapon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Just wanna throw out, the XM-25 is now also confirmed by IGN. Link here: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1171345p1.html. Someone can edit the main page appropriately as I'm not the most professional gun expert. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 22:23, 30 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

The "hybrid ACOG" could be one of Trijicon's ECOS models which have a small red dot sight mounted on top. And within a month, everybody will be whining about how "unfair" it is to have a scope and an RDS in one package... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Controversy ==

Well, it was inevitable, but the controversy's already gotten rolling.

[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110393-Daily-Mail-Voices-Concern-Over-Ultra-Violent-Modern-Warfare-3 Escapist: Daily Mail Voices Concern Over "Ultra-Violent" Modern Warfare 3]

[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Fortunately, most gamers care about good games regardless of content. personally, I could care less what the media says. Not a big issue, always going to be this somewhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:12, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: The controversy is exactly what they want, it's good promotion. Just like that whole "airport-level" in MW2 was. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 07:12, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::Yup, it's good marketing for them, people become more interested when all the soccer mums etc. cry out about something. Until we see games like GTA actually getting banned, we FPS players have nothing to worry about. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:54, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Killer, Alex, those are the most truthful words ever. They dont care about decency or people, they care about MONEY. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 17:58, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:I get upset every time I see footage of the Towers falling, but that doesn't mean I think such images should be censored. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown Ak Variant ==

I was think the gun listed as the Unknown Ak Variant might be a AK74. I thought this because it appears to have a longer flash hider, which the AK74 encorporates, although I wouldnt hold my breath. Thoughts?

: If you check out the flash-hider on the leaked Kotaku screens, you can see that it's emphatically not the AK-74 typical flash-hider. It's something I've never seen before, it's like just the last few centimeters of the AK-74 flashhider, married to the barrel. Magazine looks too curved to be the AK-74, so it's probably a 7.62x39 AK. AK Variant is good enough for me, CoD's AK's are always pretty non-specific. :) [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:52, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:: On first screen, that unknown AK variant looks like Vzor 58 rifle as it doesnt have AK´s ejection port/ bolt. On second screen, its just normal AK that is on one of those leaked shots. They arent same, as first gun is longer, thiner and lacks top mounted RIS rail.

: It looks different because it's in the dark and is low-res, whereas the leaked one is in the bright daylight and is a high-res closeup. It's the same weapon, there is no reason why IW would include both being so similar.It doesn't have the bolt/ejection port because IW is lazy and uses mirror images of weapons to render their models. Where the end of the receiver meets the stock adapter and the angled area of the receiver around the magwell are dead giveaways that it's not the Czor in addition to the spacing of the ribs on the receiver, which on the Czor are very close together. The magazines are always a little bigger, just CoD's style, and even then the magazine looks just fine to me. It's an AK variant, not the Czech make.

:As for the length, it's the same. What you might be confusing is where the gas tube meets the barrel as the end of the weapon, in the reveal trailer capture, the barrel ends near the man's thigh it's just hard to make out. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:01, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

Shouldn't the AK-74 in the main page be called "Unknown AK variant" or something like that? It's a bit hard currently to determine what is the correct variant, but by the leaked footage, this could be the same customized AK-47 like in Modern Warfare 2 only with different flash hider, handguard (which is also in black instead of tan) and black stock instead of tan. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:50, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: The railed foreguard is distinctly smaller. The stock isn't a VLTOR-type stock, but an LE one. Also, in the CoD Elite snippet trailer, one can see that the leaked Kotaku picture is legitimate. It matches the AK in that perfectly, this is a new AK weapon model for sure not just a painted one from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:25, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

== Call Of Duty: Elite ==
Kinda off topic, but this site's COD talk pages always end up becomeing half about discussing the game anyway, I was that trailer for Elite, and man, they expect us to pay for that? I mean, it's cool, but Bungie's been doing that with Halo forever, and it's free... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:02, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:The only color that matters to Activision, is green. I don't get it, your company produces the top-selling franchise of recent history, and you still want -more- money... get over yourselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 17:13, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:Meh. Don't like it, then don't pay for it. Vote with your dollars. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 06:41, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I agree, and I don't plan on paying for it. Bungie did heatmaps/statistics/awards/etc for free... Activision is marketing Elite as some sort of CoD Facebook with the occasional prize won. As long as those are the only perks, then I will not be paying for it. However, if they decide to transform it into some VIP membership giving members say, discounts on map packs, early access, or different weapon/abilities that are available no other way... then it's supremely disappointing and insulting to the people who spend an already outrageous $60 USD on the very game they produced. I understand that Activision is a business, and the goal is to make money... but this just seems like overt greed and a way to cash in. It's also detrimental, because for some odd reason, CoD seems to set the paradigm for all FPS's of late. So, other companies now feel pressured to emulate CoD in order to make money themselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:45, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I'ts been pretty much summed up already. DEFINITELY not buying this, and I'm still not even sure I want MW3. I saw somewhere that there are no dedicated servers, which was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing that could save it is...well...a miracle. I am probably just going to go with Battlefield 3.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:36, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not expecting much from MW3, but I will get it for the singleplayer, just to see what happens with Price and Soap. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

They buy it used. Kick Activision where it hurts.

Battlefield 3 looks great, really high hopes for that one. MW3 doesn't look bad necessarily, just the same stuff in a different package. Will get it and play it a ton, but, as far as a good game being made, Battlefield 3 is going to take the cake. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:03, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, well said, I don't think MW3 is gonna be BAD, just the same thing again. BF3 looks awesome though. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:49, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Not going to lie, I'm going to buy this to round out the MW series (hopefully it ends with #3), and I'll be buying BF3. I will not be paying a single cent for the Elite service though. There's no reason for it to exist as a pay service. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:55, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

DICE also just blogged about their FREE BattleLog thing, which is pretty much the same as Elite. But free, because DICE seem to be less concerned with making dough and more concerned with producing a decent game and making their customers happy. IW makes their customers happy, sure, but most of those customers value big 'splosions rather than deep and interesting gameplay. I love CoD, but Battlefield is long overdue and as a company, EA/DICE are good in my book. Really looking forward to the Multiplayer footage and information that'll be coming out of E3 in the next few days. Seems a bit odd though, nobody seems to be posting regularly on the BF3 Discussion thread... get to it! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

Ummm... is Call of Duty: Elite directly related to MW3? If not, shouldn't it have it's own page? Please correct me if I'm wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:04, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Elite is some kind of online service, not a separate game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:36, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== TDI Vector in Call of Duty Elite, MW-3 Snippet? ==

In the snippet of mw3 at the end of the Call of Duty Elite trailer, when the player is killed the stock of the TSI Vector from Mw2 appears on his back.
[[File:TDI Vector.jpg]]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 22:04, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: Yep! I noticed that too. It's prolly indeed, the TDI Vector. However, I did notice that stock somewhere else on a weapon it shouldn't be in MW3, I can't say where, I just feel like I saw it somewhere. Good spot! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:24, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Could that be the M93 Raffica from MW2? I've always thought the stocks look similar. Although why a pistol has a stock in the first place is beyond me. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:39, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:::To make it a more stable firing platform, especially for a pistol that fires in full-auto/tri-burst. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:33, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== E3 Footage ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfTBe_PJrQ
Some firearms could be seen here. AA-12 confirmed. --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 13:26, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

You can see the AK-74u, P-90, and Glock 18 as pickups at times 5:14, 5:22, and 6:46 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

AA-12 is used for breaching the bridge of the sub starting at 6:16 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:52, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

I am nowhere near impressed with what we've seen out of MW3 so far... Good spots. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

2nd E3 Trailer spots at trailer found here (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-call-of/714784?type=flv). AK-47 as pickup at 1:29. 0:09 Driver of Humvee screams "RPG!", Dshk mounted on enemy vehicle at 1:40, M2 on automated gun system on Stryker at 2:16, Mi-24 using Yak-B gattling gun at 2:53, 9-bang used at 4:27, RPG (with RPG-7 sound from MW2) fired towards allied npcs at 4:50, XM-25 usage starting at 5:20, AT-4 as pickup at 5:30, AK-47 Grenadier seen as pickup at 7:00 possibly a gp-25 or a gp-30, Spas-12 as pickup at 8:12, Thermite grenades at 8:40, Reaper Drone weapons used starting at 9:25, M134 Minigun sighted 10:32, and RPG-7's fired at player shortly after, M134 magically taking down Hinds for remainder of the video (Hind cockpit glass alone is 12.7mm resistant).
:Wow, four years were not enough for them to realize that there is no such sh*t as "AK-74u". - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:21, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Hehe. Even when I name my classes I always find myself putting the 's' in it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I've seen people refer to the S model as a "Ak47 pistol". I mean, seriously, a pistol? makes it worse the bloke who said it is a retired soldier who fought in Vietnam. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:41, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
Note how they say 12.7mm resistant. With a m134 you have 50 rounds a second heading for those Hinds. Now I've known people who are attack helicopter pilots and they do not want to get hit by a minigun as while such things as Titanium armored tubs will take the hit such things as armored cockpit glass cannot due to the number of bullets hitting the "glass" Sort of like how you can drop a quarter on a car window and it will bounce but if you drop a tin can full of quarters it will break the window.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:38, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The worst thing was that you got HIT by the crashing Hind, then HIT the building, fall out of the Blackhawk (almost), pull yourself BACK IN while it's spinning out, and GET BACK ON THE DAMN M134, then, oh we're fine, let's keep on flying... Oh, that and the HUGE BRICK OF C4 that you breach the Bridge with, and it doesn't hurt you... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:58, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::MW3=$60 MW2 DLC. Not impressed by anything I've seen so far, other than it taking place in NY; but Crysis 2, anyone? -Kangabox

Few more finds in the msnbc coverage of E3 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/43349883#43349883). Some gameplay of spec-ops shows (at 0:30) a man running around with a lever-action rifle/shotgun of some kind. It looks similar to the M1887 shotgun from the "leaked" photos a month back. At 0:53 the gamers are using what appears to be the Bushmaster ACR but I may be wrong because I'm not a gun expert. Someone please identify, thanks. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 20:50, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

:Did anybody notice that the MP-5 was called an MP-5k? and that the ACR was called ACR 6.8 --[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

More MW3 stuff. M1887 spotted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRx33M0V6I --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 01:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Actually, that may be a hint at caliber change options and the option to remove/attach stock.We'll see. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:03, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:^ This would be so awesome --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:58, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I doubt Activision would put something semi-realistic in CoD, but if caliber change was implemented I would buy it just for that reason.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:17, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::: Imagine what an 7.62X39 ACR would be like (it can be modified to use it). Just kill the bad guys and pick up their AK magazines. Awesome. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:38, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 18c ==

Should this not be put down as a Glock 17 seeing as it's likely it's the exact same gun from MW2? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]
:We should wait until we get a good shot of it before we make a decision, although it is likely the same.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, Jazz :) -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

== Unknown pistol from Late Night footage ==

[[Image:FN57MW3.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

Can anyone help identify this pistol? Looks like an FN Five seveN to me (sorry for bad quality) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:15, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yep, that's a Five-seveN alright, cool. EDIT, it holds 15 rounds. Wow, hardcore fail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:I had figured they'd do SOMETHING to balance it, either keep it at 20 rounds and give it low damage, or reduce mag size to keep it similar to other pistols --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:46, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Is there a link to this footage? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-61311/1333686/ Also confirms the inclusion of the Model 1887 in the game --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:36, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

FN five-seveN- YES! One handed grip- meh. Could get over it. Once (or if) they confirm the P99/P226, I will be more excited. At one point, the developer says something like "This gives an action movie feel. We tried to make it a cinematic experience." That is what CoD is- an action movie. If you want a military sim go to Battlefield.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:23, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:True that, I will always enjoy both games because they offer completely different experiences despite being the same genre. I'll be more interested in MW3 when they start announcing some MGs, but the Five-seveN is a pretty cool addition --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:53, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Gotta agree with both of you, there, I'm psyched for an FN five-seveN in a game like CoD. -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 00:43, 15 June 2011
::"Wow, hardcore fail." Alex, what the f#ck did you expect from a call of duty game. +1 round in the chamber? Some things will never change. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:53, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Haha, I was never hopeful enough for +1, but until not they'd gotten almost all the mag capacities right, especially since the 20 round mag is one of the most notable features of the Five-seveN :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::::If it did have 20 rounds, people would complain that it was overpowered. All in the name of balance! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:51, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Not if it was very weak, no one complained about the 20 round Five-seveN in the Counter Strike games. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:16, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::There is that I suppose. It'd probably never be used in favour of something a little more powerful with fewer rounds though. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:22, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

:And of course it's probably still going to have 15 rounds in single even though multiplayer balance is totally irrelevant there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
::Good point, didn't consider that. Screw Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:12, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

I am starting to realise that if ammo sharing between primaries and secondaries comes back from Cod4, most SMGs will have an advantage, as of now there are many possible combos (P90/Five-seveN, MP5 & FMG-9/P226 & Glock 18 and possibly UMP45/USP45 or M1911). This would make Scavenger (if it returns) unecessary and would open up a perk slot. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 19:38, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:That would be awesome! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:04, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 back in MW3 ==

Does anyone think the M1911 will be back in Modern Warfare, and I found a 1911 looking gun when soldier blind-firing with a UMP45 in the reveal trailer [[File:UMP45-MW3]]

:I know the shot you're talking about, it could be a 1911, I HOPE it's a 1911, but it could also be the P226 with wierd lighting on it, if there really is a P226. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:46, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope both are included, the selection of secondaries in Black Ops was paltry, more pistol choices plz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:54, 16 June 2011 (CDT)
: yeah more pistol choices because in black ops I only used the m1911 and the python.

:I only use the ASP, I know it was highly outclassed by all the others but it was obscure enough to make it a favourite.--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:41, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:I like all the pistols in Black Ops (except the Makarov, I've never liked it), but the problem was they were almost all the same, low capacity, low damage, like the WaW pistols. While we're talking about pistols, has anyone else noticed that the sildes of the COD4 pistols actually locked back when empty, and the WaW ones had working hammers? Then starting with MW2, it just became part of the animation, so it would fully cycle, then appear back when you started reloading. Black Ops continued this too. The only pistol in MW2 that locked empty was the 1911 because they just copy-pasted the whole thing from 4, and the only one to lock empty in BO is... the 1911. Apparently they just reskined the WaW 1911 in BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:06, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Can't say I'm surprised, I suppose the majority of players don't notice small inconsistencies in weapon function animations. I guess they could get away with copy pasting the M1911 from CoD4 into MW2 as it was only featured in campaign, which in itself was pretty lame as it was the only sidearm I used in CoD4 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah Ive heard about it and sceen it do you think they fix the bug --[[User:GVK2009|GVK2009]] 22:01, 16 June 2011 (CDT)GVK2009

: I wouldn't be surprised, it's kinda become a tradition to have it in the series. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:36, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::They better, if only so Price can have it like in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

If the 1911 is coming back it won't be in the multiplayer which saddens me since I destroyed people with it in CoD 4. The BO 1911 was weak as hell and not having one in MW2, besides museum mode, was a bit disappointing. Now that MW3 isn't going to feature one I'm kind of giving up on it in future titles. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 14:35, 19 September 2011 (CDT)
:How do you know it's not in multiplayer? Bear in mind the XP build didn't feature several weapons we know will be in the finished version. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:42, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

::I'm going to have to leave for class in a minute so I can't post it now but there is a youtube video that shows a list of available side-arms for multiplayer and the 1911 wasn't on it. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 16:31, 19 September 2011 (CDT)
::: I refer you to my earlier statement. If it was from the XP build then the list isn't necessarily complete. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:16, 19 September 2011 (CDT)
:::: How can you know that? --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 00:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
::::: I'm inferring from the lack of the FAMAS and the Vector, both confirmed in earlier sources. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 01:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
I think Price has said good-bye to the M1911 and hello to the Desert Eagle. Watch the Redemption single-player trailer.
:Nope, check his shoulder holster, he still has it :D Most noticable at 0:43 when he slams the guy into the wall and stabs him. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:45, 9 October 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons Wishlist ==

Any particular guns that people are hoping to see in MW3? All I need in order to be happy is the M240. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
:Hmm, I'm having for some drum mags and Frag-12 rounds for the AA-12. Also, a Blaser R93 LRS2 wouldn't go amiss. Probably not a military weapon, but neither is the WA2000 or the Winchester 1887. *Cough* MW2 *Cough* Also hope they bring back the M93R but fix the magazines to give it 30 rounds. And hopefully they throw in the PSG-1, like in BO, but make it look decent (Not sure about you guys, but to me the gun looked disgusting in BO). That's pretty much my wishlist, I guess. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:08, 17 June 2011
::Argle bargle there is no such thing as an M93R Beretta does not use M for model prefix etc etc [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thanks for the correction, Tim. I'm not amazing with guns, but I hope to improve. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:24, 17 June 2011
::Muh the AA-12, sure it looks cool but it can never, ever be balanced for inclusion in a video game. Also I think the PSG-1 in Black Ops was hot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
All I need to be happy is a HUGE selection of pistols, not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs, AA12, etc, and (gonna get a lot of heat for this) NO QUICKSCOPING. IMHO snipers should be used as snipers, and running around close-quarters with a sniper is simply a one shot one kill semi auto rifle. Pistols I would love to see in the game even though half of them have a guaranteed 0% chance- Walther P99, SIG-Sauer P226/P228/P229, HK P30 or HK45, Beretta Cougar or more realistically the Px4 Storm, S&W M&P, Para Ordnance P14 45 Limited (this would be the best pistol in the game, as I would leave out the Desert Eagle), and to round it all out a good ole Smith & Wesson Model 686 with Pachmayr Grips. I am also glad that the FN Five-seveN is in it, I just wish they gave it a proper two-handed grip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:09, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::About the PSG-1, ALL the weapons looked terrible in Black Ops. JazzBlackBelt, I'd be worried if you took heat for not wanting quickscoping on this website, that would seriously worry me :/ And, yeah, pretty much what you said. As for balancing an AA-12, no, it can't be done, everyone go watch FPSRussia's AA-12 video, especially when he one-hands it; you can't balance that. They just made the pellets disappear after (literally!) 10 feet in MW2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:04, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::'not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs' Haha, as a regular LMG user this makes me sad :( I don't think LMGs are 'noob guns' if employed properly, they are fairly essential in defensive roles if playing gametypes like domination in which points NEED to be effectively locked down. However, I will concede that the majority of players who DO choose LMGs do so in order to hold the trigger down and hope 2-3 of their 100 round belts hit, which is just not on. As for quickscoping, I can't stand it. I feel it's cheap and 95% down to aim assist (though obviously not on PC). --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:29, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::I'm so ''sick'' of the term N00B, ugh. I'm not going to give my "wish list" cause IW is gonna do what "they" want and not listen to "us", I stopped playing COD games at WM2. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::75% of the LMG users use them improperly, like running around not really aiming. I still get annoyed when they kill me (I get annoyed at pretty much everything when it kills me) but if they were actually using it properly it makes me feel a little bit better. As I play on PC there are still annoying players that play outrageously, but on PC virtually nobody uses the mic (on CoD anyway) so I don't have to listen to them talk!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:25, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::I'm the same, though I think getting annoyed is part of the fun. It must be, otherwise we wouldn't keep playing. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::Nah, getting annoyed is never part of the fun, the game is good enough that we can clinch our teeth from the few annoying things and still enjoy the game. ;) (At least in MW1 for me anyway.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::I've never been that keen on CoD4, definitely not on PC anyway. The maps are far too small for the amount of players each server has :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:33, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Love COD4 on the PC, I love the 24 to 50 players on those "small" maps, 50 players makes it a true war! I prefer playing on Hard Core mode, just love it, no HUD, 1 or 2 bullets to kill someone, that's the way all the COD games '''should''' be by default. :) Never played WM2 or BO, they're too silly and Hollywood. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:22, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::::COD4 is by far the best CoD in my opinion. I play on PC, but I hate when there are too many players on a map. I aim for servers with about 4-15 players. Likewise, I love the big maps on BC2, but only when there are enough players.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:53, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Aside from seconding the inclusion of a bigger variety of combat pistols (note that by "combat pistols", I don't mean Desert Eagles, S&W 500s, and the like), the only weapon I'd like to see is a Mark 12 SPR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:48, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be for more Shotguns and to have them placed not ONLY as secondaries, but Primaries too. For example, I'd love to have the semi-auto M1014 or the 1887 as a primary but have a smaller sawn off shotgun or a compact pump action as a secondary, like a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser. MW2 with it's secondary shotguns was a bit of disappointment with me. I'd love to see more real life mainstream shotguns instead of the damn SPAS-12, it's overused for god sake, just start adding the 870 or the Mossberg, I wouldn't even mind if it had all the "Tacticool" crap on, as long as it was either the Mossberg or 870 underneath it all. But overall, more pistols in general, maybe a sniper rifle with only a single shot fire capability, a G3 Rifle from COD4 and maybe some really old weapons, like a Bolt Action Mosin Nagant or a Lee Enfield Rifle. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:36, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:How about NO shotguns as secondaries? IMO primaries should be the rifle/shotgun and secondaries should be pistols. Two shotguns? A little bit overkill and unfair.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:58, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I don't know, there is something crazy fun about running around with a M4 and the semi-atuo M1014. Unrealistic, and ridiculous? Maybe, but can't deny that its fun. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:02, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be that we could choose our equipment before the missions. There are some, I suppose where that would be unrealistic such as the 'No Russian' from MW2, but I think it would give everyone a bit more personal or in depth experience if they could choose their kit. I love the idea that we could get the flip up magnifier for an EOTech sight, but in general I prefer how much less of the screen is taken up by the red dot sight from MW1+2. I don't know enough about programming to understand if this would be impossible, but right now I have a bit of a crush on the Bushmaster ACR and would love to play levels with that, and in a few months when I'm having another of my HK 41X kicks play the game again with that rifle. Living in the UK my PC is the closest I will get to these guns, and I think everyone would have more fun if they could personalise their kit rather than have it chosen arbitrarily by IW/Activision who, I doubt, could not come up with one reason, good or bad, for giving you the equipment that they do. One specific request Sig Sauer p226 in .357 sig, they won't do it but you have to have dreams. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:00, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

A Weapon Loadout wouldn't be too hard. Medal of Honor: Airborne did the same thing. Maybe, completing missions, unlocking achievements/trophies (and a separate means on PC and Wii), unlocks new weapons to choose. - [[User:1morey]] June 20, 2011 8:50 PM (EST)

Two main things I'm hoping for: First, I want my F2000 back, but I want IW to get the unique optics right -- the EGLM sight on the real F2000 is magnified, so in-game, it should be the ACOG scope that looks like the EGLM, not the Red Dot. Second, I want a Springfield Armory XD or XD(m) pistol, preferably in .45 caliber; hell, I'd settle for the Croatian HS2000 that the XD is based on. I have a few other wishes (XM500 instead of M82/M107), but those two are the only ones that really have any chance of coming true. - [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:13, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

When will CoD learn? i love CoD but its seriously going down hill from CoD4. they had nice, popular NORMAL weapons in CoD4. M4A1, AK, M16, 1911, M9. now their bringing in stuff that knowone has ever heard of. is it too much to ask for a normal Glock? maybe a 17 or 21 in place of the USP. maybe use some pistols actually being used by actual SF Operators like the Glock, Sig, 1911, Springfield XD. and what is up with the Russians carrying FAMAS's. just looking for a call of duty that had the same quality and standards as COD4.. anyone with me on this? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:59, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:What? The USP is WAY more "normal" that the XD [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

i'd give it a few years, its been tried to replace the M9 (as did the hK45), its employed by a few police forces, im sure its being used by SF. and PS im pretty sure that most people would hand in the USP for the newer more ergonomic hK45, or the P30(same thing but in 9x19/.40S&W) [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 21:07, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:But... The HK45 only holds 10+1 rounds where as the USP45 holds 12+1. :B By decreasing the grip size for smaller hands and better ergonomics it lost 2 rounds. :( If someone made flush-fitting 12 round mags for the HK45, I'd buy it in a heart beat. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:25, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:I would take the fully ambi version of the USP45 over any other handgun. Period. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:05, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74u ==

Shouldn't the section for the aks74u on the page be titled "AKS-74u" and not AK-74u with quotations? IMO it's the same as calling a Glock 17 converted to full auto a fake Glock 18. I don't believe in the "call it what the game calls it" method because that is incorrect. I think we should definitely mention that the game incorrectly names it in the description, but the title should be the actual gun it is modeled after.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:47, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:It uses that title because the weapon is actually a replica of the JG "AK Beta-F" Airsoft gun, not an AKS-74u; it's a mess of different AK variant bits and pieces (mostly AK-47) that's shaped a bit like an AKS-74u but certainly isn't one. Hence it's a quote-unquote AK-74u. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:23, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just as Evil Tim said, it's only similar to the 74u in name, it's a bunch of different AKs, and it's not even a 74, it's a 47 anyway. Someone could copy-paste the description from the COD4 page. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:43, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

::Then shouldn't it be titled the model of the airsoft gun? All other pages I have seen that use airsoft guns as stand ins for real guns have the gun(s) it is modeled after and in parenthesis the airsoft gun. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up as I'm not much of an AK expert.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:25, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::It's not exactly the same as the Airsoft gun either, though. On a movie page where the gun in question was being used to play a real one, yes, you'd use the name, but here it's a fictional gun ''based'' on an Airsoft gun, so you just have to go with what they call it in quotes. That's how it's normally done for Frankenguns and fictional custom weapons in games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:Well, technically the only difference is the bakelite mags, but "AK-74u" looks WAY better than "AK Beta-F". [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:19, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::There's some minor differences in the layout of the gas block and front grip (check the CoD4 page images) and I'd agree it looks better to call it by the game name in quotes; it also makes it easier for someone looking for an ID of the weapon to actually find it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::The gas block and grip just look like fail modelling, but they are different ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:20, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

Thanks for all the replies, really cleared that up for me. As I said before, I am NOT in any way an AK expert. I had read that the one in COD4 it was modeled after an airsoft gun, and assumed the airsoft gun was modeled after the actual gun, not random bits. To avoid making other people confused I will update the description with a modified version of the COD4 one.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah I know what you mean by not an AK expert, it took me forever to be able to tell what one was just by looking at it for a sec, and there's still a lot that I come across I hadn't heard of. Same with revolvers, even now, they still all look the same to me lol. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:29, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Other than a few Smith & Wessons, don't ask me ANYTHING about revolvers. But hey, that's what this site is for- educating people about firearms.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:56, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:Lol, well said :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:58, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

It is correct that this gun is not an aks 74u and that the term ak 74u "doesn't exist." However, I don't know where the author of the main page got the information that this gun "doesn't exist." It's called an SBR (short barreled rifle) you can look it up if you don't believe me, just type in: short barrel rifle ak. Also, I know for a fact that you can fit an aks 74u type muzzle brake on the rifle. Most, if not all ak type muzzle brakes are compatible with each other. Just sayin'. --[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 16:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I googled, and there's no weapon listed called an "AK-74u" on the first page. If you can find a fullauto AKM-pattern weapon that looks like the one in the game and is called the AK-74u ''by the manufacturer'', then feel free to add it to the page, but as far as anyone can tell it's an "AK Beta F" Airsoft gun. This would hardly be the first mistake CoD has made regarding weapons, CoD1 had eight and ten-man weapons with a one-man crew and MP44s at Stalingrad in 1942-43. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm sorry for the poor communication, the gun is call a "Short Barrel Rifle." Ak 74u is just a nickname of AKS 74u. Look up "Short Barrel Rifle ak" on google. You are correct in saying that the Ak 74u isn't a "real weapon."--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:43, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:SBR is a legal classification of weapons (shoulder-fired rifled guns with barrels 16 inches or shorter) which require a special tax stamp and registration, it's not a specific gun. It's been applied to handguns with shoulder stocks before. What you're finding with that google search is weapons which fit that legal definition. Bear in mind we ''don't'' use legal definitions here, because legally, for example, there's no such thing as a fully automatic shotgun (it's a "machine gun"). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:49, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Regardless of what you say it's classified as, the weapon exists regardless of technical terms. I was merely proving the weapon existed. Even if it is heavily modified.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:55, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Um, you're looking at dozens of different short-barrel AKM-pattern weapons with that search, the only thing they have in common is requiring an SBR stamp. It doesn't really change that ''this'' AK isn't a real gun, because it's an Airsoft gun based on piecemeal bits of the AK47 and AKS-74U. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:01, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, I don't want to debate the issue with you here, I am aware that you are correct about the SBR title and its classification. However, If you look at the weapon posted, you will realize that it is merely an AKM with a shortened barrel, the pictures I found proves that this customization exists. You're going by weapon title whereas I'm going by the weapon itself. A weapon like that could, in theory, exist. With full auto capability and everything. But do what you will, It doesn't bother me at all, However, I think you can agree that this fictional weapon is at least based off a real firearm.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:09, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

The only Aks 74u piece you're talking about is the muzzle brake.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:12, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and the sight, but dude, I don't want to be that guy, I just want to show that this gun could be real, after all, the gun in-game doesn't show any manufacturer or anything, it's just a customized AKM.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:15, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about the fact that the configuration could ''theoretically'' be made into a real gun, though. We know of an ''actual'' Airsoft gun which is mass-produced right now and easily available to be used as a reference, which is all but identical to what is shown in the game. This means it's based on a fake weapon. Whether you could make an actual weapon based on ''it'' doesn't really change that. We say the same of handheld miniguns in videogames which have the "chainsaw grip" from T2 but retain the half-circle attachment point for the ''Predator'' M60 grip: you could make a minigun with a useless half-circle attachment, but that doesn't change that the useless half-circle comes from the Airsoft version we have pictured on the M134 page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:23, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

By all means do whatever you want, you know more about this site than I do, and frankly, I like this site and don't want to get into an argument on it. Either way is fine by me. And I'll leave it as a agree to disagree kind of thing regarding its actual existence. There's not enough evidence to say it does or doesn't exist. So I apologize for my previous remark. I leave it at a possibilty.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:30, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Call of Duty XP 2011 ==

I doubt it, but was just wondering if anyone is going to this? I'm curious if they got all the right guns in the "Call of Duty Armory", which apparently has the guns from CoD in it. You also get the chance to play MW3 for the first time, and a little beforehand reporting never hurt anyone ;).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:00, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:If I lived in the States/had the money to afford a flight to LA I probably would have gone. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot from FourZeroTwo/PKP Pecheneg spotted? ==

[http://a.yfrog.com/img736/504/nceia.jpg]

Looks like the Juggernaut soldier is using a PKP Pecheneg (note the distinctive carry handle on the top of the barrel).
There are some other guns lying around, possible an M14 on the left? Looks like a .308 mag to me....

(also is there a way to post an image directly in a discussion?)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:16, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Anyone else notice the annoyingly obvious Remington and EOTech trademarks? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:03, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah I don't like the trades at all, though I doubt I will use the ACR all that much. Good job on the PKP spot Ghost, think you're on the money there. Have wanted the PKP for a while. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:50, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's not like guns have rollmarks in real life, right?-protoAuthor 21:10, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, I don't mind the trades. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:46, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Each to their own, but they are massive so it feels a little like (very obscure) product placement --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:51, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, I'll take overt sponsorship over price rises. You have to remember that games have gone from something that could be made by half a dozen people in six months to something that takes 150-2,000 (GTAIV) people years and costs millions of dollars, and in real terms games now cost less than they did in those days. For example, the original ''Turok'' adjusted for inflation cost over $100 when the N64 first came out. They've got to get more money from somewhere, and you should be glad that somewhere isn't you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::I think it's brilliant. The MW series has made ACOG and EOTech house-hold names to an entire generation of potential customers. How many twelve year olds knew what an ACOG was pre-MW? Or what a Remington ACR was, or FN SCAR? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:00, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::But can they tell the difference between a Remington ACR and a Magpul Masada? But seriously, I don't mind the trades that much. Sure, they are gigantic and wrongly placed, but will you honestly be focused on that while playing?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:14, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::I suppose not, no. You might struggle to play the game if constantly focusing on your gun's trades. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:17, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Yeah, you guys are right, the product placement isn't too bad, it's just the oversized obviousness that bothers me. Oh, and I'm not familiar with the new EOTech in this game, but isn't the EOTech trade where the buttons should be? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Not necessarily, I believe the model depicted there is the EXPS2, which has the buttons on the left-hand side (http://www.copquest.com/75-8030.jpg) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:18, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Oh okay, it doesn't bother me nearly as much now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:13, 14 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::If you guys have 3 minutes to spare, here's a youtube vid of the EXPS2, which indeed does have the EOTech trade on the back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpw0IigxQM Plus, at the 1:00 minute mark he brings out a magnifier that has the same flip to side capability as we saw in some video for MW3, I don't remember which.
::Yeah, it is a PKP Pecheneg, Confirmed. - [[User:ReikoKotobuki|ReikoKotobuki]]

== ??????? ==
Why haven't all the guns from the Walther P99 to the Heckler & Koch M320 (above) been applied to the main page? Every image containing the guns have been confirmed as official by Robert Bowling.
:They were on Kotaku, which is not a reliable source, and last I heard they said "some of the information released is accurate, some not". If they have been confirmed elsewhere, please post a link.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:54, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

This isn't rocket science. Those pictures were leaked before the gameplay videos were. Look at the M-4 from the video, then from the Kotaku Link. They're the exact same, and the MP5 as well. They're legit, I'm convinced.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 17:04, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:This website operates based on CONFIRMED information. However likely it may be that they are legit (I'm convinced too) we have to wait for them to be in an official gameplay video.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yes, plus, as the template at the top of the age says, all images must be from ''official trailers''. The pics here are still from a leak, even if some of them have been confirmed. I'd say the only time we should use leaked pics is ''after'' the release if they include weapons that never made the final cut (eg the minigun in the leaked STALKER alpha), but never before. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:18, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, fair enough. Sounds good to me.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:24, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Survival Mode Trailer ==

Look HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDQ2Ow-VfI&feature=player_embedded. New weapon spots include...(please identify) at 0:11, (please identify...maybe Scar-H) at 0:14, buy screen confirms USAS-12 and M60E4 at 0:40, G36 at 0:42, ?auto-grenade launcher? (mk.19???) at 0:48, new telescopic lens attachment at 1:25, riot shield at 1:38, FMG-9 and bounding landmine (unknown type) at 2:04. Please update main page accordingly =D --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:24, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

You beat me to it, was just in the middle of writing a post about this! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:30, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Forgot to mention, at 0:42, ACR using 6.8mm ammo --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also 0:52, it IS a mk.19 automatic grenade launcher!!!! --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:34, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think the weapon at 0:11 might be another AR platform weapon, they show more of it at 0:15. I'm thinking LWRC's M6A4 but they're not an exact match. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:: It's the same M4 seen in the leaks and the E3 footage.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Nah that's shown at 0:17, is definitely a different gun. Much longer than the M4, also the rail system, charging handle and rear sight differ. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:25, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Dammit, I was hoping they wouldn't bring back that juggernaut soldier. Also, seeing what they did to that poor 1887 made me cry. One good thing though, deploying a riot shield squad could be interesting.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:56, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, weren't riot shields also available in MW2? I remember seeing them in MW2 videos. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:37, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::Indeed they were introduced in MW2, but only the AI could use a sidearm in tandem with the shield. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:15, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Aww. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also, here's the list of weapons up for purchase during the trailer: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110809195831/callofduty/images/8/8f/USAS_12_Survival_Mode.png Clicky!] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:02, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The landmine device at the end of the video is an IMS landmine. Information here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk. I don't know if we post about that kind of thing, but claymores are listed on the main website. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:36, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

== Colt CM901 ==
[[Image:UK1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UK2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Anyone know what this is? I think it's LWRC's M6A4 but I'm not certain, definitely isn't either of the other AR platform weapon's we've seen so far though

Well, since Infinity Ward loves to put Future Weapons stuff in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the LWRC M6A4 made an appearance as a mag-fed LMG, Black Ops-style. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:28, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ That's what I was thinking, the reload animation looks quite slow for an assault rifle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yet, once again, they have put the rear iron sight backwards :P --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:57, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::Good job whoever identified this as a Colt CM901! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:05, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, that iron sight isn't on backwards. That's the standard BIS for M4's in the Army. Every M4 in our Brigade has that flip up sight. The only thing wrong with it is that it's supposed to be a the standard peep hole, not the night sight that you see on the M16/M4 carrying handles. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 09:51, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::: For reference, I believe [http://www.aresarmor.com/install/media/ecom/prodlg/matechbuis.jpg this] either is or is a commercial copy of the sight he's on about. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:33, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::Yes sir that would be it [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 12:27, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP5K!! ==

Someone throw in the MP5K to confirmed weapons, it can be seen with a holographic in the vid, after the player tosses a purple smoke grenade for AC-130 fire at 1:08 in the newest trailer! :D Dunno WHY they add it in with the regular MP5, but it's confirmed in the bottom right hand corner. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:On it. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:38, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::The strange thing is that the difference is not even noticeable as the guy holds the MP5K close to his body and the buttstock (the buttplate on the MP5K) isn't visible. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:46, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I think it has a buttstock attached, as far as I can tell. I get the feeling this is the only MP5 variant in the game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::::What the about the MP5A2? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:00, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I thought they both looked very similar (buttstock, rails etc) so that's why I assumed they might both be one and the same, but if they're both confirmed as separate weapons then fair enough. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:07, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::They could have misnamed the MP5A2 an MP5K. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:12, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I also think this might be the only MP5 in the game, and if it is the MP5k OR it is a MP5A2 misnamed, I'm going to get angry. The MP5k is a nice gun, but I want to be able to use a full size MP5 again, like the good ole days. Ahh, how I miss COD4...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:17, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::True to that. Well I'm still playing COD4, huaha! >:D I just played Black Ops only for a little while, I completed SP, played Zombies and MP for a couple of hours until I quit due to the frustrating and the annoying, and went back to playing COD4. XD Oh, and I never even touched the abomination that is called MW2. D:< - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I played Black Ops for a while, enjoyed, then played COD4 again and realized how bad BO was. Recently I broke down and bought MW2 because Steam had it half off, and having extremely low expectations for it, I found it wasn't terrible, but just bad. I still play the MP, but I have no idea why.
We saw the teaser trailer and it is the full size MP5. I'd be damn if they kept the MP5K. Seriously man. In Black Ops they had the right idea of no mini Uzi and gave us a full Uzi, I want me full size MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:Hehe. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
::Seriously though, I don't know why they put the smaller variants of everything. MP5k, Mini-Uzi, and small guns in particular like the sawed off shotgun and stuff. Don't even get me started about the excess rails, which appears to have continued over into MW3. 0.o--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:37, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I quite like the MP5K, but for the most part I prefer the full size variants of the weapons they include. As for rails, everybody knows the more rails you have on your gun, the better your gaming experience will be. *Trollface* --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:20, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
::: Needs more Tacticool. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:31, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
:::^ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:58, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

== M60E4 could be M60E3 ==

After looking closely again at the trailer, I have noticed that the picture of the M60E4 is actually the M60E3 from [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Of course we haven't seen MW3's M60 in action yet, but once again, could be another mistake, or just an early development place holder... Here are the pictures for comparison:
* Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-18-50.jpg
* Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:COD4M60E4.jpg

What do you think? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:54, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think they images they're using atm are largely just placeholders until final ones are chosen, so the final in-game model may end up being the E4 variant. Guess we'll have to wait till footage from CoD XP comes out to see for ourselves. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:09, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:: The fact the MW2 ACR image is being used supports that. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:45, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== FAD assault rifle ==

Whereabouts in the spec-ops trailer is the FAD? Someone updated the main page but no pics. Here's a picture of the FAD for anyone who hasn't seen it, looks horrific [http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5347/fad3vv2.jpg] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:Just watched the trailer and am 99% there was no FAD in it. Also, the MP5K is actually a railed MP5A2, and can be seen from the side on the ground when the first juggernaut fast ropes in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:50, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::I thought so. :) And yeah the FAD is pretty horrific looking. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:29, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::OMG that gun looks bleh...i'd rather see the F2000 or TAR-21 again, those are some sexy bullpup rifles. But this time please with correct grenadelauncher placement.--[[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:29, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
: Chrausis, the FAD isn't in the trailer, but can be seen on Sledgehammer's site in image 2 as seen here [http://sledgehammergames.com/]. And Commando, you may be right, but Robert Bowling confirmed on Twitter both versions of the MP5 will be included. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 02:38, 13 August 2011
::Hmm... this could prove interesting... if they pull it off right there could be pros/cons to each version, i.e. MP5k lets you run a little faster but poorer accuracy and MP5A2 gives you better accuracy but a little slower. Of course, they could just be making the MP5k a secondary, which would make me pretty mad.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:10, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::It's kinda hard for MW3's MP5K to be a secondary with that A2 stock. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::::That was the MP5A2 we saw, just with rails.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:24, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::But the HUD said "MP5K Holographic". :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:15, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::1of 2 things is happening. 1) IW has REALLY screwed up this time and put an A2 stock on a MP5k or 2) the HUD is just a placeholder from MW2 and will be updated. I can't tell if the handguard is full length or not from that clip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:42, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I think there going with the Machine Pistol Secondaries again, perhaps the MP5K is in the Machine Pistol Slot now, makes sense, considering it's smaller profile and IW's reputation, given that they had placed similar weapons in the catergory such as the MP9 and PP-2000. Might have a smaller magazine capacity or trade in something else over the full size version like firepower or accuracy. I know that one theory of mine, is that the A2 version may function similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung 40mm Grenade Launcher. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:26, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::The GSN-19 is a '''30mm''' grenade launcher dude. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:16, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I was using that as the US equivalent, the only other '''30mm''' Grenade Launcher I see in use by US Forces would be the 37mm and that's usually designated to Police Riot situations and signal purposes, not exactly a great combat multiplier on a Sub-Machine gun. And did I mention the GSN-19 anywhere in that description or saying that it was '''30mm'''? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 01:23, 19 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::You said "Similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung '''40mm Grenade Launcher'''" <-(referring to the '''30mm''' GSN-19 that mounts to the AKS-74U). Just making a correction. Anyway I see a 40mm grenade launcher being mounted on a MP5 kinda silly, Half-Life anyone?
:::::::::::Well this is Infinity Ward we're talking about, and they have been known to make alot of things silly in past games, like mounting a M203 or a Shotgun on a TAR-21 without any proper mounting brackets or by having the 7,62 M240 LMG being LESS powerful than the 5,56 L86 LMG which is ungodly powerful. So I wouldn't exactly call it far fetched for them to add a Grenade Launcher to the MP5, it's technically feasible, Treyarch and Infinity ward do seem to have a habit of copying one another in some way. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:19, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Purchase Weapons like Black Ops? ==

Was just curious after watching the Survival Mode trailer, anyone else think that IW maybe following Treyarch's example and giving all their guns, equipment and killstreaks price tags in the Multiplayer Armory instead of unlocking them with experience and further ranks? I personally enjoy the idea, as in Black Op's it worked quite well, I could buy what I want and didn't need to work too much in order to get it. It was always in reach. What do you alot think about this? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:31, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:I would prefer the money system. as you noticed, the upgrades where always in reach and it wasnt necessairi to perform a gazillion kills simply to get that one feature unlocked, that i like. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:23, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

:Robert Bowling has confirmed that there'll be no in-game currency (other than in survival mode) but there will be a whole new system in which weapons are unlocked. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:52, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== One handed grip ==

I know its not supposed to be a sim, but a one handed grip on the pistols is going to get old quick [[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:24, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:I agree fully.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:31, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
::Be thankful it's just a one-handed grip and not a sideways 'gangsta' style grip. Though now I've said that... --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
::And they wouldn't even have the shell casings eject into the player's face.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:33, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
::Would make you flinch if you were playing in 3D. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:08, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Well in the real world you only one handed a pistol when your off-hand is not available, ie steadying on something, moving something, holding a flashlight, driving, disabled, etc. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:51, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
::::We all know how the CoD developers feel about the real world...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::lolz. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:17, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

On a lighter note, they are supposed to be bringing back a fully sized MP-5[[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:34, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:Old news pal. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

In Call of Duty if your off-hand is not available it's probably holding another gun. This doesn't seem to be the case so what are we doing, running around with our hand in our pocket? Actually that's less ridiculous than some of the stuff IW has done... [[User:USGIMar29|USGIMar29]]

== Infinity ward when will you ever learn ==

that russians don't use 9mm european smgs in frontline combat i throught Russians used heavy calber Russian weapons.--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

And I hate the EBR why do they have it in there!

know what I hate in COD games is that the player automatically thinks that they know every gun just by playing cOD.But I still like cod enough to play it--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:They don't really care about the minor details. They just want to create a fun game, rather than to do a research about a weapon and recreate it in the game itself. I myself, also getting annoyed of the unrealistically bull**** stuff that the developers put in CoD, especially CoD:BO where 90% of the weapons are anachronistic. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:14, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

We have WAAAAYYY passed the realistic mark with CoD. CoD is basically a playable action movie. If you want realistic, play Battlefield. Depending on how they present multiplayer, I play it because it is fun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, yeah, the CODs since 4 aren't so bad if you just think of them as action movies. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:01, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

did anyone actually pay attention of what i wrote?- nazi fishwife

:You basically went for the rather tiresome 'an unrealistic game scored better in reviews than a realistic game, so people must prefer unrealistic games' line. This is a fallacious argument unless you can prove ''Modern Warfare 2'' scored more highly ''because'' it was unrealistic and that it would have scored less if the weapon choice had at least attempted to make sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

how is it a fallacious argument, action packed less realistic games are statistically better than realistic, slow and boring games i had proof i added all of the scores modern warfare 2 and all of the scores with operation flashpoint 2: dragon rising on the page but it got deleted because it wasn't set out in the acceptible fashion - nazi fishwife

:No, ''one'' unrealistic game got better review scores than ''one'' realistic game. The comparison is flawed, since you assume that ''MW2'' is better because the weapons used are unrealistic choices for the people using them (something no review praised the game for) rather than because the game is better at a mechanical level, or simply appealed to more reviewers due to the more "pick up and play" style of gameplay. I could just as easily claim that since ''Portal 2'' has a higher Metacritic score than ''MW2'', first-person games with no guns in them are "statistically better" than ones with guns. Would you accept this as an arguement for MW3 not letting you shoot anything? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

thats funny, i didn't know that portal 2 was a realistic war game?

:Way to miss the point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:28, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

like when you started talkin about portal instead of a war game who's missing the point??

:Wow you just epically failed basic logic there ''and'' you didn't sign your posts... -.- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

i didnt know logic came into commenting on a website are you fucking stupid or do you just not get what logic is???

:Interesting, your attitude is just as bad as your logic and your name, you better watch yourself Nazi. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

:Popular =/= Good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:: I love the EBR and its still in service. It's not in alot of games/movies so why do you hate it? - Joey1666

You're asking when Infinity Ward will learn? They did, and a majority of them quite the company. What's left of IW is nothing compared to who they used to be [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:09, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I went kinda over board,What I ment about the EBR is not the gun I hate,Its the damage in-game what I hate.Other then that I love the EBR.An about the Russians I was just making a point like it making them look like a terroist army when they are not.Like they could be using a little more Russian weaponry.Right (makarovs men are the terroist if you didn't know),Anyways COD is still my favorite game series.--v 15:07, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[user:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]
----

== Confirmed guns still on Talk page ==

The following guns have been confirmed (either by official trailers or by live gameplay videos), and have already been added to the main page; therefore, they can be removed from the "unconfirmed" list on the Talk page (and IMHO, removing them will help prevent any confusion):
*FN Five-seveN
*Magpul FMG-9
*Colt M4A1
*Customized AK-47
*Remington ACR
*Heckler & Koch G36C
*Winchester Model 1887
*AA-12

== Hopefully this game turns out really good ==

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one folks. Cause to be quite honest, it's good that Infinity Ward got Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software to help in the development of the game, rather than just them doing it all on their own like how painfully obvious it was in Modern Warfare 2 (Not that the game was bad in any way, but it could have spent a little more time in development). After all, Raven Software is famous for it's development of the Jedi Knight games (instant classics right there), The X-Men Legends games, the Soldier of Fortune trilogy and a few Star Trek games here and there, so definitely the Multiplayer aspect of Modern Warfare 3 will be much improved over MW2's, and more fun to play. While Sledgehammer Games was founded by two guys who used to be a part of Visceral Games (a subsidiary of Electronic Arts), and that company was famous for development of 007: Agent Under Fire, 007: Everything or Nothing, 007: From Russia With Love (Pretty good first person shooters back in the day when games in that genre weren't copying the whole 'duck-and-cover-while-your-health-regenerates' system like they do now from the more modern CoD games... *cough* stole it from Halo *cough*), and of course both of The Godfather games and the Dead Space trilogy. So definitely the single-player campaign of Modern Warfare 3 will be much better and probably less glitchy and just ''maybe'', a little more 'realistic' like how Call of Duty 4 almost nailed down. Granted, this game and every other Call of Duty that comes afterwards will never be intended as 'realistic military simulators', and I understand and accept that, since Call of Duty is nothing more than a game you play for enjoyment rather than for the realism. But for what it's worth, I'm really hoping that this game turns out just as good as the first Modern Warfare did, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 06:33, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, couldn't have said it better :D I love how any time someone talks about COD, no matter the opinion, COD4 is ALWAYS mentioned as being good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

== M14 Derivative Spotted Possibly M21 EBR ==

Far right picture in second row of confirmed screenshots/concept art http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/183-more-concept-art-mw3 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:34, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I seen it too, over on the CoD Wikia. So psyched that it's back. Also, it appears Captain Price is back :( Oh well, can't have everything I want :( --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 23:03, 30 August 2011

::YAY! Captain Price!!!! I am soooo happy! Even though I suppose we already knew he'd be back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:41, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:::That art looks so awesome <3 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

If you need proof that some people on the CoD wiki are morons, I got called a troll for saying this doesn't mean the M14 is confirmed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:40, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, they also don't allow real life gun info on the weapon pages. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:52, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:: That was to stop it turning into a load of nerds swinging their virtual cocks around. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:07, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Eh, the result is ignoring misinformation about weapons spread by the games (eg that there's such a thing as an M93R). Not exactly an improvement. Especially when the original games had writeups that talked about the real guns in their manuals. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:03, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyswpn6xzQ Bam.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:50, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
: And it's already been taken down; I think it got put up too early. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:57, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Was this the multiplayer reveal trailer? I've heard it'll come out during the live stream of CoD XP at 11AM LA time. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:41, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
::: In the meantime, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaYrfe1S650 here's] where someone else stuck it up. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:::: I saw a hk usp on a guys back. -- Joey1666

:::::Why would a pistol be on a guys back?! XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:: It's been officially released now; Kotaku has an article with it. Some interesting new stuff in there. Bouncing Bettys, anyone? -[[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 07:46, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: Saw a Mk 46, USP Tactical, Remington MSR/XM2010, SVD. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

this trailer looks epic, when i seen the sniper 2: ghost warrior gameplay i knew they would have the msr on every new war game its in battlefield and this (waiting for homefront two lol)

:Why is the M4A1 still using 20-round magazines *facepalm*. Wanna bet that they will still hold 30 rounds? Using 20-round magazines on a modern assault carbine meant mainly for CQC = retarded. 15:24, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: All footage - http://gamingeverything.com/?p=8478 -- [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

== Equipment List (Not sure if it's leaked) ==

So, I was checking out Call of Duty Wiki for some MW3 news and I spotted this: http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/195-mw3-multiplayer-info-blowout
It's a complete list with all equipment options, not sure if it's considered leaked. But from what I saw up to now some new weapons are:
:1. Mk.46/M249
:2. G36C w/ AG36 (YES!)
:3. PP-90M1
:4. MP5 (NOT the MP5K)
:5. AS50
:6. Remington MSR
:7. Dragunov SVD.
:Plus, the G36C has a really badass reload (kind of MW2 FAL-style) [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 16:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

OHMYGOD OHMYGOD THE SIG P226 WASN'T LISTED UNDER THE PISTOLS SECTION NOOOOOOO ARGLEBARGLE AUUGHH BLARGBLARG *dies*--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:14, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:Is this information considered leaked or can it be added to the main page? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:30, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::I don't think "some random gaming site" really counts as "official" as per the page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:17, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== COD XP 2011 Robert Bowling Interview ==

Shows some pretty interesting snippets of other weapons seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJUJcoCq37I&feature=feedu
I see there is a L118A? / Arctic Warfare Sniper variant, HK USP, PP-90M1, SCAR-L (4:19, appears very briefly as a name tag), P99 Confirmed (name tag), M320 / AG36 (seen on G36C), CM901 (appears with a Tan Finish, Sniper Scope and Suppressor and firing fully automatic) [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

== weapon list ==

the list is supposed to be real and on the site it says the FAMAS was removed and the AK74U and AT4 are campaign only??

someone get proof please

: Well... that list isn't wrong, but there are more weapons than it states. Look at the Kotaku official screens, there's an M240B in one... which isn't listed. So I'd say that there's more than the list would lead you to believe.

:: No m1911 or Fal mentioned... Im dissapointed if that will be the final list. -- Joey1666

:::Yeah I was thinking that quite a few guns mentioned were missing, perhaps they're campaign-only like MW2's Dragunov. I hope not though, <3 the 240. Also the guy on that site claiming that the FAMAS was replaced by the QBZ-95 is a moron, they look nothing alike. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:45, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

I think we need to wait until it's a) confirmed and b) there are some pictures. Remember we're about identifying weapons in visual media, not in blog posts. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:02, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

[[image:MW3M2401.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M240 in MW3?]]

I'm not high right? This is the 240B in MW3 isn't it? --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:10, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:Hmmm, didn't know they made M240B MAG stocks out of leather... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

== Cheeky machine gun gameplay ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3i-vASNb68 Here] is a short video showing some Mk46 and MG36 gameplay. The MG36 is hilariously badly modeled, ultrasadface. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:59, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Until the guy reloaded it and I saw the side of the weapon, I honestly had no idea that the model was meant to be the MG36... Also, from the brief shot I saw of it (during the loadout section) the L86-LSW has made a return. Unfortunately (from my perspective anyway)it's the old MW2 model with drum mag, carry-handle/barrel change and L85 handguard. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

:That's not a real MG36, it is a G36KV "mocked up" as an MG36 > note that it has only four vent holes. Similar to the hybrid in Far Cry. And the gayass juggernaut has no weapon? OMG! Oh and one more thing, looks like there will be no emblem editor, just preset images and titles... hmmm... that's what I call regression. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

::I thought it looked too short to be an MG36, but that's probably the least concerning thing about it: The sights are wrong, the bipod is wrong, the drum magazine is wrong, not to mention the floppy charging handle during the reload sequence. Sort it out, Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:15, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:::EEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! I was so excited when I read there was an MG36, but... never mind :'( If the 240 is in but not on the list that gives hope to other things being in too, like the FAMAS, "AK-74U", and the M1911. I will be sooooo sad if they don't bring back the 1911 AGAIN. This game is looking, well, like another COD game, but seeing some of the COD4 stuff come back is making me a little hopeful. I also dislike Campaign only weapons, makes me feel cheated out of using them. :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:08, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

::::I don't GET campaign only guns. The models are already there, why not just stick them in multiplayer too? Just feels like wasted space. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:19, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Well, it means they don't have to be balanced for multiplayer use. Games where all the singleplayer weapons are designed to be fair to other players who don't exist are kinda depressing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::True, but the weapons that do feature in both single and multiplayer have different stats. For instance, in Black Ops the RPK had perfectly controllable recoil in single player, however kicked like a mule in multiplayer to make up for the extra 10 rounds in the magazine. They could even recycle the stats from the previous games the weapons have featured in as they were all considered fairly balanced. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:19, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

The MG36 from Battlefield 2 was also actually a G36KV. The sight rail with built in folding sights looks a lot like one made by [http://www.btdeutschland.com/BT-21142_web.jpg Brugger & Thomet].

Speaking of machine guns, I saw a picture of the PK Pecheneg in first person aiming down the sights, and the belt is on the wrong side. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 15:50, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== PP-90M1 ==

This is not the same PP-90 that the gun redirects the user towards. One is a folding submachine gun, the other is a helical-fed submachine gun. They are two entirely different weapons, at least, according to Wikipedia: "other than sharing a manufacturer is unrelated to the similarly named PP-90M."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-90M1] Also, if it hasn't been done already...looks like the PP-90M1 needs a page to itself. [[User:Arcdash|Arcdash]] 07:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)
:I fixed that already. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:08, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== WTF ==

In the new 'tango down' trailer, there is an m16a4 custom, that looks like a rocket launcher with parts of an m16a4 on it.
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DuUIy9snIk-E%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded (you need a YT account to view this)-teobery
:Are you talking about the thing at about 45 seconds? looks like a remote ground drone that has a rifle/machine gun in the centre of some sort with missiles firing from the right side. Apart from that the only other thing that looks like a rocket launcher is pretty obviously just a rocket launcher, SMAW I think. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:40, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

No, it's at 53. If you look at the bottom right hand corner you see it saying 'm16a4 custom'

Lol that's the M153 SMAW, the reason it says 'M16A4 custom' is that the player has expended their ammo and the game is auto-switching to their primary weapon. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:58, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== More vids are out ==
More vids have been released from the XP event. Here's what I've seen.
* Brand-new reload animation for the G36C. I can't describe it that well, one of the MP vids for the "Kill Confirmed" game mode features it.
* USAS-12 uses the box mag and is restricted to 6 or 8 rounds a mags (couldn't see that well. MW still using pictogram ammo counters)
* There are 2 different MP5 pickup icons. One is a stockless MP5K with a 15-rd mag, while the other is a full-size and full-stock MP5 with the 30-rounder.
* MP9 has a slightly altered reload animation (character now give the seated mag a tap)
I'll try to grab as many of these vids as I can and get you guys caps if possible. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:39, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

:MP5K is likely placed as a Machine Pistol Option while the MP5 is featured as the Primary Option, if thats the case I can predict people running around with both MP5's. HK Fanboys incoming, not that there's anything wrong HK [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:17, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::The problem is if people can have machine pistols and SMGs as sidearms, why would anyone use pistols? I do, but almost no one else will. I saw a video where a guy pulled out his FMG9 and got a triple kill in half a mag in one burst. How is that a sidearm??? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:52, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::A lot of people will have ridiculous secondaries anyway thanks to Overkill :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:21, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::::The thing that gets me is why does this game have two full-auto shotguns when they're almost identical performance wise? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:15, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::That's wierd too, but I'll bet they don't shoot farther than 10 feet, so it won't matter that much :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:52, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Not to mention that on what information there is on the two auto-shotguns so far, they still only fire from 8 shot box mags...whats the point in having a full auto 12gauge if your mag is empty in two seconds and then you get killed while reloading...they better give em drum mags [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 06:45, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::If they get drum mags, I will not be playing this game. The tiny magazines are the only thing that balances them. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:50, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::: Alex, the answer to your first comment is that pistols have a much faster draw animation, so they are good for those times where someone's rushing and the gun's magazine runs out. Then, you instantly pull out your pistol and kill th enemy. So basically, they're faster and lighter than anything else, which I believe is their real life purpose. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:04, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Do we have to talk about this again? The developers don't give a s*** about realism. They prefer to create a game that focus on fun rather than simulation like ARMA\Operation Flashpoint-style games. They don't really care what family of weapons does the MP5K belongs to or how the AK-47 operates or what is the bullet-count of a SVD magazine. You and me and everybody else can turn over the whole world just for this kind of problems, but eventually it won't change a thing. The ''Call of Duty'' is a franchise that is intended to the casual players, featuring run-'n-gun/spray-'n-pray style of gameplay, dozen of weapons, crap like perks, killstreaks or whatever, ranking system, challenges, multiplayer service with social-networking in half-payment and the list goes on. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:33, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:I pretty much gave up expecting COD to be realistic since MW2. :/ And then I completely gave up all hope after Black Ops. ._. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:07, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

::Same here. It's amazing though, how reality can actually make the game better balanced. That's what the BF3's weapon designer is doing, little things like if you attach a suppressor you use subsonic ammo, it travels slower and drops sooner, making longer ranged shots difficult. This should probably be on the BF3 page, but oh well. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:16, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Exactly. And that is the deal: BF3 = Intened to have realistic gameplay. CoD = Keeps casual fun-style gameplay. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:37, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons ==

I noticed that the guns in this game that have appeared in the other modern warfares have been "modernized". The M4A1 Carbine is a stark example.
notice how as they progress, they are more "modernized".

[[Image:M4_4.png|thumb|none|400px|Modern warfare M4A1 Carbine.]]

[[Image:Mw2_m4a1_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Modern warfare 2 M4A1.]]

[[Image:CODMW3-M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Modern Warfare 3 M4A1.]]

:I'd say the MW3 M4A1 is less modern than the first two games, because IT USES A FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINE. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:54, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

::Not to mention the same ongoing mistake with the fire selector switch set on Semi-Auto while the weapon's actually fires on auto :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 18:56, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::At least his finger isn't on the trigger? That's something, right :D? Aside from a few inaccuracies, this M4A1 still looks far better than whatever they've done to that poor G36KV. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:21, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

::::The G36KV is bad, isn't it? Too bad, really too bad. Some cool weapons can be uncool when or if they get to the hands of the wrong people. If developers work with military experts or something like that, so I feel sorry for those guys as they don't look at the minor details. Eventually, the point is that even so MW3 has inaccuracies (as always in the case of CoD), the game gotta be at least better than the previous ones. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 19:38, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Sorry i had to use pictures from this website but i couldnt find any others.- [[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:I like the MW1 M4A1, almost stock but with a bit of personality. KAC rail system, 16" barrel, and an old-style stock. Also, the graphics get worse with each one :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:19, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::Actually the graphics get better but they also get more "tacicool", and a FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINE. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:09, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:::LOL. I wounder if the magazine will actually count 30 rounds even though it's a 20-round mag like in Call of Duty: Black Ops (I believe they got the idea from this game, :P) and why they decided to use 20-round in a Modern Warfare-era (duhh!)... OMG! war games can get pretty annoying sometimes. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:42, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::::It's not a war game, it's an action movie simulator! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:29, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Haha, "Action Movie Simulator" is what I'm going to call it from now on :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Maybe the guy who designed it has just watched [[24_-_Season_2#M4A1|24]], and if its good enough for Jack Bauer its good enough for you. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:07, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:Well Jack had no choice but to use FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINES, the game developers did. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:28, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::Better than 10 round magazines I suppose --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:01, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Even if it was a 10 round magazine IW would make it hold 20 rounds, because you suck and they hate you. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:24, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::::I wish you would stop reminding me of this :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:40, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

== Robotic-M249? ==

I was curious about the robotic-M249, and searched the internet for something similar and found out this:

[[File:SWORDS_robot.jpg|thumb|none|350px|]]
The robot is called "TALON" and it has the "SWORDS" system. This robot was produced by Foster-Miller robotic company.

Then I looked at the in-game:

[[File:M249_sentry.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Could be the same one? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 14:13, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:I will use this at all times, so cool. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:14, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::Hopefully this will be far less annoying than the RC Car in Black Ops, seriously who thought having a remote controlled bomb which is small and hard to hit be a useful killstreak for a game!? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:27, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Actually more like: Who the hell though that there were remote controlled cars in the '60s? :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 06:30, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

::::It's a 10 point streak and is lol slow from the looks of things, so seems pretty balanced to me. I bet it's really easy to take out. Doesn't stop it being awesome though >:O --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:32, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== KSG-12... Double Barrel??? ==

There's a something recently I've seen on a youtube video of MW3 loadout screen with the KSG is that the KSG operates like a Double barrel shotgun from previous games as it's described as "Double Barrel" on screen. Which has led me to some confusion, I know the weapon is actually a pump action but does this mean that some people are believing that because it uses a dual tube system that is infact some sort of weird pump action double barrel? It's led me to some concern regarding the weapon, but I wanted to hear people's view on what Infinity ward might have mocked this up as? Here is the video link btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAmxpx6bzk&feature=relmfu go to 0:34 to 0:35 to see what I mean [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:53, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:I've heard from someone who attended CoD XP that the KSG still operates as a pump action shotgun in MW3, so I don't know if it fires two shells at once? Either way, fail, Sledgehammer :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:23, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

::Hmm, there is no Vector, nor Skorpion. Also no M240B nor FAMAS? Wtf? The Skorp and MP5K (if there is at all) will be secondary probably. Also, THANK GOD no Akimbo for primary SMGs, so no gaylords running around with two P90's :) P.S.: DId you notice "MK14". Well better late than never, right? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:00, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
:::I had a feeling that IW was going to screw this shotgun up. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:02, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
::::It will fire laser portal bullets. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:02, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::And be powered by a secret alien micro plasma Arc-reactor from a pocket universe (shhhh, don't tell anybody, it will ruin the games plot) '''AND''' it will have a built-in sandvish spawner! . - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:20, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Don't forget the rail-mounted rail mounts with grenade launchers on each. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:52, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== FAMAS ==

I really think that the FAMAS on the pic is actually a G36C. The carry handle is too thin and low to be a FAMAS. Not to mention that there will be no FAMAS (at least in the MP). Anyways, I won't remove it from the page till release. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:18, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

:You very well may be right sir. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:06, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

I don't think so, carry handle is way too high to be for a G36C, it doesn't have a skeleton stock, and I think you would be able to see the magazine with the position it's in. Also, if it was a G36C there would be handguard in front of the carry handle. Could be that the Norinco QBZ-95 is actually a Norinco QBZ-95B. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:59, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

:Another possibility. I'd be more inclined to believe it was the QBZ-95B over the QBZ-95, as you say. Then again, it may still be the FAMAS as a placeholder or SP only weapon. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:12, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

:: The weapon in that screen is definitely, definitely a FAMAS. Down to the Troy-esque irons from MW2 being visible. It is probably just a placeholder, or they're holding out on us somehow. Still doesn't explain the M240B being spotted in the more recent screenshots released at Cod XP, but not the Multiplayer weapons menu. Either they've made the horrible mistake of making a bunch of weapons SP only for no reason, the weapon list shown at Cod XP wasn't the final build, or these weapons seen in previous CoD games will be available as Prestige Rewards/Veteran Rewards. They've stated that there will be rewards for people who have prestiged in previous MW games. Also, with the Prestige Shop... the sky's the limit. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:17, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

:::I am hoping that it isn't the final list, there are quite a few missing that I would very much like in there. Hope Sledgehammer don't pull a dick move and omit them. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:07, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

:::: *cough* Price's signature M1911 *cough* [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:44, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

::::: Agreed, I still die a little inside knowing that it was in the Museum in MW2, but not in Multiplayer. To be honest, I really see no reason for them to -not- include all the weapons from previous Modern Warfare games. If they just, carried over the weapon list from CoD4 and MW2 into MW3, that would be an amazing amount of variety in Multiplayer. I see no reason why they couldn't just do this. I'd love to use the G3 from CoD4 in MW3, and the FAL from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 23:13, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::As nice as this would be, there would most likely be not enough disc space (aside from PS3) and thus multiplayer would have to be included on another disc. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 02:30, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Well in Black Ops there were really only like two ARs and two SMGs because they pretty much all had the exact same stats, there's no way this could be MORE useless. I'm kinda glad the COD graphics (etc) don't get better, because I still play MW1 and don't feel like I'm missing anything :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:34, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

Thing that gets me is with the FAMAS, G18 (I didn't see it in MP footage, could be on the list), RPD, and the FAL these are the same weapon models from MW2 presumably. But, the AKS-74u and the M240B are unique weapon models for MW3. The last time we saw an AKS-74u-type weapon was in CoD4, there wasn't one at all in MW2 and from the leaked screen, it looks to be a completely new weapon model. So why would they make new weapon models, just to leave them out? The M240's is largely the same, except the way the irons somehow disappear or fold down when using a RDS, which didn't happen IIRC in MW2. Granted, the SVD was a different weapon model in MW2 and they didn't include it... but... just doesn't make sense to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

:The 240's irons do indeed disappear when an optic is attached in MW2, so I guess it's just lifted straight from MW2. Not that that's a bad thing imho --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:03, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

== HAAAA! I was right! ==

I was right when I said that there will be no MP5SD in the game (section #14 on this page). Check out the suppressed A2 [http://cdn.steampowered.com/v/gfx/apps/115300/ss_6d429f8fd41fb63a22c04069b6317ea48e49c8d7.1920x1080.jpg?t=1315587884 here]. So gimme my cookies! >< - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:39, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

When you stop being smug and arrogant. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:05, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

:He's just being silly, not smug and arrogant. (rolls eyes) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:14, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

If someone was congratulated for saying the COD wiki was wrong this page would be one long backslap. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:41, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

Hey, we try. Although [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:CM901#Semi-automatic.3F I did have to correct someone for saying the CM901 was the SP simply because I'd put an SP image on here for lack of a CM at the time.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:00, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:For the record: I did not mean to hurt the feelings of the COD wiki members. I am sorry if I sounded like that. I only wanted to say that there is no SD2 in the game, not that the COD wiki is being run by nooobs. FYI the COD wiki is far the best gaming wikia on the internet. And IMFDB also has a lots of wrong ID's. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:56, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTBPdVpdMc] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:28, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Not saying anything bad about the COD wiki, but Halopedia(n) is by far the most well done and maintained gaming wiki that I've seen. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:07, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::::I agree. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Then you haven't seen the Mass Effect wiki; it's almost flawless. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 14:26, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Oh that's cool, I haven't played any of them yet; on my to do list :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:11, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Say what?!?!?! It's a great game although I've got to admit I didn't play them until after the second one came out. Give it a shot if you have the time you'll probably enjoy it. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 16:34, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

== So... ==

[[Image:NYHarbor MW3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Seems in ''Call of Duty'' land, naval battles never quite got past the "Trafalgar" stage. Wonder if there's some galleons exchanging broadsides in there somewhere. Then again, since it's been seen time and again that handguns are a more effective way of killing people in CoD than airstrikes, helicopter crashes, high-calibre cannon rounds and even dogs, perhaps they have to get really close and try to use their sidearms to one-shot each other. Or it's Treyarch and they're just trying to throw so many grenades onto each others' ships that they sink under the weight of the shrapnel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:16, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
:Also, some of those superstructures in the background look big enough to be battleships. If there are ''Iowas'' fighting at that range and the US isn't just flat-out ''winning'' it'd be pretty dumb. Any modern surface fleet versus a battleship at that kind of range would be a completely one-sided massacre. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:05, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
::I think the big ships with the pointed superstructure in the background are probably meant to be Russian Slava Class Crusiers. I would guess that the US have lost at this point, as the carrier is plainly sunk and it looks like the Arleigh Burke on the left is going down too. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:40, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

== Beretta M9/92FS/etc ==
I think we should include the M9/92FS/92SB under handguns since the box cover art of the soldier carrying the M4 has a Beretta (identified by its open-barrel design) strapped in his holster as his sidearm. Although I'm not sure if it'll see a return in the gameplay, it should be noted. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 00:21, 28 September 2011 (CDT)

== Remington MSR ==
The rifle labeled as the MSR looks too long for an MSR and I think it might actually be a Remington XM2010 --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:18, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:It's been confirmed as an MSR in the multiplayer create-a-class, although I'm not entirely sure if they modeled it correctly, since the chassis for both the XM2010 and the MSR look similar. My guess is that it is. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 19:53, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

== New trailer ==

Today they released a new trailer for the SP, which shows many many spoilers so be warned!
Click here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKgDVruHfo&feature=youtu.be

Any thoughts? IMO, the trailer is great, though still doesn't wait for the game too much :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 16:08, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

:As someone who isn't a huge fan of COD after COD4, this is looking better, though, the singleplayers were always at least pretty good :) Price has a DEagle at 0:25, but you can see his M1911 in his holster at 0:43!!!! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:55, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

::I wonder if Price is going to die again. He seems to make a habit of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:03, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Haha, him and Soap will both almost die again, it's a tradition ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 10 October 2011 (CDT)
::::A response to the first sentence: How the hell can an official trailer contain spoilers? roflcopter - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:46, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Because obviously it shows scenes from the campaign missions, which can some of them if not all, can ruin the experience. Were you really serious about asking that question? :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 15:20, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

You can see Price pulling back the slide on a 1911 as he comes down the stairs. Most likely his Springfield from the last two games- hopefully it's actually usable in this one.
[[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 14:16, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

:No, that was the Desert Eagle, but you can see the Springfield 1911 in his holster, notably at 0:43. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:26, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

== Equipment of Captain Price ==

Do you guys think that Price, being a SAS member and not Delta Force member, would have better had [http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/weapons/browning-high-power.php L9A1] and [http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/weapons/c8.php L119A1] instead of [http://deltaforce.americanspecialops.com/weapons/colt-1911.php M1911A1] and [http://www.americanspecialops.com/special-ops-weapons/m4a1-carbine.php M4A1]? Or is there something more to it?

Also, do you think the image of him, holding Desert Eagle, shows off his, ahem, inner mall ninja?

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:15, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

LOL :) Or a P226. I'm currently building airsoft versions of his two main weapons, and I like the project value in making the AR-15A3 and SA Loaded 1911. Hell, I'm building the AR from scratch :O While those would've been more correct, I personally like those two. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:08, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

From CoD4:MW onwards, non of the titles were 100% accurate about weapons, equipment, vehicles and even factions. Of course it would be better to see Price carrying SIG-Sauer P226 or L9A1 and C8 Carbine instead of what he carries now. This goes to the rest of the main playable and non-playable characters. So eventually, what we're talking about here is the matter of accuracy, and as I said, non of the titles starting from CoD4:MW were even close to perfect about that case. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 08:18, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about a man who died on the ''Tirpitz'' in World War 2. Reality and Price are not on speaking terms. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:24, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

Doesnt the 1911 in Price's hand look very awkward. it looks like someone made a cheezy animation in ten minutes. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:50, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:That was a Desert Eagle...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:11, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:Actually the WWII Price was confirmed by IW to be his grandfather. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:36, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

::That's exactly what I was gonna say. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:47, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

::Nonsense, we know that pistols are the deadliest weapon in the world against people with both first and last names in the CoD universe. Price survived being shot with one, and so must be immortal. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:08, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

== dissappointment ==

I find it harder and harder to like CoD. i was all the way up with them from the beginning. Call of Duty:4 is a godsend. great campaign, great weapons, great characters. *SPOILERS* when they killed off Gaz i thought "okay, damn, best character is dead but i guess it wouldnt be a good ending without a great loss. but seriously they have reached a new low. let me be clear i love call of duty, but the simple stupid mistakes they are making, makes me think, if they cant get a simple 30 round magazine right, something we have used since the 90's, this game is going downhill fast. what possible explaination could they have besides lazyness to check the background, um hello Cod4? every other modern game has a 30 rounder. the designers need to listen, they need to fix these stupid mistakes, i think i might be forced to go over to the dark side of online gaming, to battlefield...[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 16:55, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I pretty much agree, COD4 = awesome; the rest = not so much. Not sure what you mean by "dark side", BF3 is gonna be the best game, well, I hate to say "ever", but I can't come up with a better word. Certainly the way to go if you're someone from this site ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:10, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

::I consider BF the 'Good Side' of FPS and CoD the 'Dark Side'.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:21, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

i refer to it as the dark side because im a 'cod fanboy' as they say. and the polar opposite of the fun quick paced matches of CoD is the more team based tactical Battlefied. i 100% agree BF3 will be amazing, however i will never play mp because i hate snipers. they are 'uber noobs'. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:20, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

I for one am done with CoD completely, 4 was my favorite and I absoulutly loved that game. 5 was still fun but after that, forget it. They've added so much crap that makes the game no longer fun and it caters to the little kids. On BF, I rarely hear a kid yet on CoD, its almost every game. Another thing that bugs me is the fact that most of the shotguns are 30+ years old when this game is supposed to be modern. I don't think the 1887 as a POS pistol grip only black painted stock with ghost ring sights will ever be considered by even a lowly Security Guard.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:23, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

== semi-unrelated note ==

I was just wondering if they are any console games that are similar to CoD. im a huge fan of modern games, i dont like really realistic games like Operation Flashpoint, but i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions of games. like i said i like CoD i like Rainbow6. and i also would like to no if there is any Glock's in said game (they're very under appreaciated in the FPS world) [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:24, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Homefront (2011 VG)

2011-10-14T15:26:19Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Why did they choose a Express model 870? */

==Please rewrite the summary==
Doesn't matter that you gave attribution to Wikipedia. IMFDB wants you to take the two minutes it takes to write the summary in your own words. Either that or it will be deleted. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

In gameplay I saw a ADS view of a gun with hk battlesights, maybe a 416 variant?

As far as AR-type weapons go there is a 416, M4, and M16. There is also an M4 shorty, the one held by the female (Gender selection?) resistance fighter, but we don't know whether it will be a seperate weapon or if you can change out barrels/stocks. Oh and the note about the M16 being single shot only bothers me a bit. It seems likely its supposed to be a DMR-type weapon in game, and except for a few, most games don't have fire selecting, so it doesn't really mean the 16 is single shot "only", the soliders are simply being smart and using a long(er) range weapon on semi. Also, H&K battlesights are awesome. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:50, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The shorty M4 and the 416 are one and the same, look at the unique rail cover colour pattern, short barrel in first person, edge of the stock visible in first person, and continuing top rail, and ambi fire selector, among other things. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:56, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Quick question though, why do the KPA troops use western weapons and equipment?

One of two reasons, the video was made using all MP footage, and we don't know how the weapons how the weapons work there, COD style, BF style, or something else, OR it has something to do with the developers saying in the story video about how the N Koreans trained on American weapons. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:39, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I thought one of the story trailer said that the North Koreans started to train their military based off of America and started using their weapons. It could be possible on an invasion standpoint to use captured American weapons and ammo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:04, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

:There's a tie-in novel, "The Voice of Freedom", that goes into pretty good detail about how the Greater Korean Republic came to power, including that Kim Jong-un acquired American technologies and weapons that had only been sold to South Korea when the two countries unified. This covered everything from gunships to tanks to Humvees to small arms. It also covers that the GKR armed forces began to train in U.S. battle doctrine to prepare for the invasion. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:40, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

More simply, it's so they didn't have to design weapons for the Koreans. Also, watching now, so they could use stock footage of American military actions as KPA military in the intro, including F117 Nighthawks (?!). [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 01:23, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

==Really?==

In one of the caps there is a guy called Connor. Fine. But he's a resistance fighter! Terminator much?

So... What's the problem? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 18:11, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Terminator invented the name Connor?

It's only a random character name in-game. Just because this game involves American resistance fighters and one of them is called "Connor", it doesn't mean it connects somehow to the ''Terminator'' series. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:28, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

I have to disagree, i made the edit for the name, and after watching a Homefront vi-doc it was revealed that Connor is a former U.S. Soldier who has a deep seated hatred and grudge for the Koreans. Coincidence most likely that the Terminator series has a similar character. - Doc345

It's most likely just a homage to John Connor. The idea of an American fighting a powerful enemy in a resistances group setting [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Who in the Terminator franchise hated Koreans? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:00, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

I guess he's specifically a reference to ''Terminator 3'' John Connor, that's why he's so annoying. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:08, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

== unknown drone weapon ==

is it just me or does the unknown drone weapon resemble a M242 Bushmaster chaingun --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:54, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

It's hard to tell. The weapon in-game is larger than the M242. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:28, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

*It looks like a [http://www.defensereview.com/recon-optical-crows-remote-controlled-weapon-stations-for-enhanced-lethality/ CROWS]-style RWS mount with a stubby NSV / Kord barrel and gas tube stuck on it (or DshK barrel and gas tube without the cooling fins, I guess). It's probably one of those "based on something from another game which was based on something from another game which was based on a real gun" things. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 00:43, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

== Not an ACR ==

Looking closer at the FPS image of the "ACR" the charging handle is too far back. The early prototype Masada had the charging handle closer to the shooter, but they moved it forward in the ACR model. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:You're right, it is a Masada, judging by the folding front sight integrated into the top rail. But if we're going to call it an ACR (as it's called in the game), we may as well get it right. It's not an ACR basic. Since the pictured in-game model has the enhanced folding/telescoping stock, and the basic model handguards, that would make it the ACR Basic Folder configuration, seen here here: http://www.bushmaster.com/acr/images/acr-basic-folder.png Someone should change/fix the image.

If it's a Masada, we should label it as such. Handguards and stocks can be switched out within minutes, but the charging handle placement is a critical design element that can't be changed so easily. I'm ''not'' a fan of the "call it what the game calls it" method because I feel it goes against the purpose of the site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:20, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
:I totally agree. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:03, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

Certainly ''that'' one is a Masada, but I think the model in the final game has the charging handle up above the handguard rather than behind it. Check it out:

[[Image:Homefront-ACR.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:44, 3 May 2011 (CDT)

== HK416 is PWS Diablo? ==

They look too similar for them to be completely separate weapons, also in this youtube video HK416 isn't in the weapon list, only the PWS Diablo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H8cG757kpE

the guy was using the PWS in first person and it looked exactly like the supposed HK416 in first person. I think the PWS Diablos iron sights are just HKs rear drum sight

what are those last cople of assault rifles -.

== No 1911? ==

I'm slightly shocked that there isn't a 1911 varient listed in the game as a usable weapon so far. I would have thought that it would be something included. Even if they are civilian sold 1911s. Surely there has to be more pistols than the M9. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:50, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

im pretty sure the m9 is the only pistol in the game -.

Seriously? What kind of FPS game is this that only has one pistol for multiplayer? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:51, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

apparently homefront. even their overall weapon variety is really low, 2 smgs, 2 lmgs, 2 sniper rifles, like 6-8 assault rifles?

Maybe this is a good thing, it could mean that they're focusing more on the narrative/plot than the gunplay; well, maybe not so good for IMFDB's purposes, but it means that this game could be one of the rare FPS games that actually means something in the greater scheme of things. I'm definitely watching this one closely. [[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.4|72.189.150.4]]AUA

Frankly I would have loved to see a Sig Sauer or a 1911. I actually expected to see more then a Beretta M9. I understand that it is the standard military handgun but it would be nice to see something else. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]]

Keep in mind folks, in the game's storyline, America has finally gone completely bankrupt (mainly due to other conflicts not getting resolved in the world among countries who trade and provide goods for the U.S.), a mysterious bird flu disease ravaging the population that exhausts all medical aid and supplies, and from the time North and South Korea combine forces and annex other Asian countries, to the time America gets blasted with an EMP from space by them and invaded and occupied shortly afterwards, I highly doubt that the gun companies in America would still be making civilian sold weapons at that point, since they very well could have gone bankrupt themselves. Plus, since the game's opening depicted that marshal law was implemented throughout the United States because of the economic collapse and the demise of everyone's life savings, along with everyone in the U.S. getting angry and rioting over it, perhaps the American people's basic right to bear weapons was also denied, and gun owners could have had their weapons seized by the local police. Which in turn, could go along with the gun companies in the United States not making any more civilian made weapons during the economic collapse of the U.S./marshal law being implemented countrywide. Thus, with this happening in the storyline, and the weakening of the United States military and the national defense due to the economic collapse, it gave the Koreans the chance they needed to cripple, invade, and occupy the United States. And the civilians being unable to take up weapons of their own to fight back against the invaders... Oh, I wouldn't doubt that there are still M1911's in existence in the game's storyline, but maybe they have all been taken by the Koreans when they invaded and took over all the major cities of all the states west of the Mississippi River during their invasion, or if the marshal law that was implemented involved local law enforcement taking/seizing civilian bought weapons and either melting them down or locking them up somewhere in the stations or impound yards, which later the Koreans probably seized and probably destroyed to prevent the local resistance cells from grabbing and using them. Of course, that's just one theory. Anyone want to try and add something else? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 23:24, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Homefront drinking game ==

Keep your eyes low. Take a shot every time a puddle / piece of broken glass / whatever has a totally different skybox reflected in it to the one in the actual level.

Great, now you're dead. :( [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 13:16, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

*Also, bit busy to add them right now, but there's a TDI Vector (as "Super V SMG") and SCAR-H ("SCAR-H LMG") in the game; the SCAR-H has a grippod foregrip and a C-Mag. Just making a note to myself / anyone who gets to this before me. M203 and Masterkey (I think) as rifle attachments, and there's a shotgun I'm struggling to remember the name of. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 13:26, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

*Some weird stuff here, too: there's a stupid-looking quad-barrel machine gun shown on one of the loading screens that looks to be made entirely out of RIS Rails, another loading screen shows a WW2 Tiger I tank with the Korean soldiers on the Hoover Dam, and this is one of the few articles you could lever "M65 Atomic Cannon" and "W9 Nuclear Artillery Shell" into (the W9 is a gun, after all) since the "Korean" nuclear test footage shown at the start is actually Upshot-Knothole Grable. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 06:33, 19 March 2011 (CDT)

Apparently that shotgun is an 870 Express, but suppressed? It didn't sound suppressed to me. And do they make C-mags for the SCAR-H's cause that doesn't make sense. You sure it's not just a SCAR-L with a c-mag? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:14, 19 March 2011 (CDT)
*Googling quickly gets the only references to 75-round SCAR-H drums (it's not a proper C-Mag, just looks like one) as Homefront-related, and GIS just finds me airsofts and one made of Lego. Apparently Allied Armaments made a 50-round single SCAR-H drum, but I can't find a twin 75; I guess they might have decided to invent a fictional MG36 knockoff LMG version. It definately says it's a SCAR-H when you select it, and it does enough damage to be one. The 870 Express, yes, that's what they call it; I don't think it's suppressed in the campaign. Campaign, it's got a spare shell holder with one of the shells upside down and a RIS rail on top that never has anything on it. Per videogame law, the player character never ''uses'' the shell holder. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 11:29, 19 March 2011 (CDT)

== Diablo ==
I just checked primaryweapons(dot)com and the Diablo is not on their product list. Is that even a rifle or just an upper for the M4-type weapons?? (PS: I know that it is a lame question...) [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 09:26, 22 March 2011 (CDT)
:Look under PWS Uppers, and is listed as the MK107 Upper, 5.56/7.62 (Diablo). Under their Mk1 rifles section they simply identify the rifle as a Mk107. will changed the title of the gun to make it clearer. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:15, 22 March 2011 (CDT)
::Uh-huh, so this is like when LWRC changed SABR to REPR, right?? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:48, 24 March 2011 (CDT)
:::I think it is more like MK107 is the designation, where as "Diablo" is the nickname. Since I made my previous post however, they have changed their website, and the fully built rifle is now also referred to as the Diablo rather than just MK107, and the front page of their site is an advert for "As seen in the game HOMEFRONT: The PWS Diablo". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:12, 24 March 2011 (CDT)
::::There's adverts for it all through the game, too. Wonder if PWS know it's a useless piece of shit in the singleplayer? [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 17:41, 24 March 2011 (CDT)
:::::I think PWS payed a lot them to include the Diablo in the game (maybe I am wrong), but at least they could have told 'em that it is an assault rifle not an SMG... this is what I call EPIC FAIL... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 26 March 2011 (CDT)

== SCAR-H ==
Why is it called "SCAR-H LMG"? There is no such thing. It's stated in the description that it's a light machine gun in the game so the "LMG" shouldn't be in the title. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 26 March 2011 (CDT)

*I think it's either they labelled it with the weapon class (same as the "ACR Rifle" which would be the Adaptive Combat Rifle Rifle) or it's a fictional LMG configuration SCAR-H, a bit like G36 / MG36. Still, removed it since the version in question doesn't exist. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 03:09, 27 March 2011 (CDT)

*I heard they made a prototype IAR variant of the SCAR called the "HAMR" (Not sure if it was in 5.56x45mm or 7.62x51mm) for the IAR competition, which they lost to the HK416. FNH could have won the competition for the new IAR in Homefront's universe. Kind of like how they have SCAR-L's, even though I think the US Army decided not to purchase them (Please correct me if I'm wrong). -

*They label all the firearms with their class --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 15:23, 2 April 2011 (CDT)

== "ACOG" sights ==

I might be wrong, but I'm fairly sure none of the "ACOG" sights are actually even made by Trijicon: Mk. 1 looks like an ELCAN and 2 like one of those BSA scopes with the side rails. Not sure about 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:37, 25 April 2011 (CDT)

:All of the optical sights in ''Homefront'' are NOT real, they just BASED on the real ones. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 08:51, 25 April 2011 (CDT)

:Still, "ACOG" isn't an umbrella term for low-magnification optics, it's a specific product line produced by a specific company. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:12, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, the mark 1 even has a visible battery cover, despite that the big feature of the ACOG line is that they don't need batteries. I'll probably note that in an overview section since it applies to all the weapons that can mount scopes rather than any particular one. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:37, 3 May 2011 (CDT)

== Pretty much all done now ==

Just need to do the grenades and then cap and ID everything in the intro's stock footage (which is going to be fun). Anyone watching, take a look at "QJG-02 heavy machine gun" since I wouldn't mind a second opinion, and that unknown gun on the "Wolverine" drone. The only thing I really don't have here is idle animations, since I was recording these videos primarily for a Let's Play. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:23, 5 May 2011 (CDT)
:Why did you remove most of the 3rd person screen-shots of the weapons, ie the M4A1, SCAR, PWS Diablo, etc? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:54, 5 May 2011 (CDT)

A few reasons: 
*1. They're from a pre-release trailer, rather than being footage of the actual game. 
*2. I can get better shots of the in-world weapon models anyway (ie shots where I can talk about what's going on rather than "here are a bunch of guys involved in some activity that doesn't happen in the actual game.") 
*3. They look different to my shots. This might sound odd, but IMO pages look better when every shot comes from the same source; if you have a couple of shots that stick out, it gives the page a rather patchwork appearance. It's the same reason I threw out a couple of shots from the ''Black'' page that were obviously from the XBox version; if I'd left them in, the reader is left wondering why the other images aren't as good as those few. 
Granted, I forgot to get caps of the in-world weapon models, but that's easily fixed. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 6 May 2011 (CDT)

:Ok, in-world models up. I'll go through and check all the weapon pages to make sure it's listed tomorrow. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:22, 6 May 2011 (CDT)

::Alright I understand and thank you for all the caps and improvements. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:44, 6 May 2011 (CDT)

I need to add an overview to this at some point to explain a few general issues (everything loses its front sight when mounting optics, five STANAG weapons none of which can swap ammo, etc) [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:21, 12 May 2011 (CDT)

* '''''Blue Thunder?!''''' Seriously? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:06, 19 May 2011 (CDT)
:lol! XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:30, 20 May 2011 (CDT)
Ok, finished now. It says something about how important the C4 is that I've played the game through three times and I still managed to totally forget about it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:56, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Incidentally, if you want to see the other reason why I recorded this in the first place, [http://www.youtube.com/playlist?p=PL41F2A30FA4C8A2BD Let's Play Homefront]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:06, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

:I just watched your videos and I have one thing to say: Dude, Your simply epic! :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:12, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

== Nameless weapon ==

I can't find any reference to what the 23mm autocannon on the CAIC WZ-10 helicopter is actually called, which is why I haven't listed it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:48, 10 May 2011 (CDT)

== Shotgun ==

Is the shotgun available in SP to anyone or only those who pre-orded it at gamestop (I take it that it is to intstantly unlock it in multiplayer which there is a DLC for anyways) - [[User:1morey]] August 3, 2011 11:44 PM (EST)

:The shotgun appears in SP regardless. I took these screenshots from a rental copy. Pre-ordering ''only'' affects whether or not you can use it in multi. Apparently there have been some severe problems with people being unable to redeem their codes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:21, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

== QBZ-03 Mag? ==
Is it just me, or does it look like the QBZ-03 in-game is using one of those plastic Tapco 7.62x39 magazines? --[[User:Gato|Gato]] 15:46, 24 August 2011 (CDT)
:I thought QBZ-03 mags always looked like that. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:02, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, a little bit, but the ridges on the QBZ magazine are different from the Tapco one. The in-game model looks exactly like a Tapco mag to me. The ridges look exactly like the Tapco magazines, and it looks too thin to be a 5.8x42mm magazine. [[User:Gato|Gato]] 16:54, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

== Underestimation ==

I think you people who hate the game underestimate it too much. How do you know the SCAR-L in the game isnt a futuristic model that features 3 round burst? How do you know the "T3Ak" isnt a futuristic chinese assault rifle and the makers of the game borrowed the QBZ-03's design? There are all these possibilities. Also the fact the M16A4 fire in semi auto is realistic as soldiers are usually told not to fire in 3 round burst. --Gunner5 P.S. How do you guys add pictures, im new to this.
:I think I underestimated how wrong you are, the game blows pretty bad, and trying to rationalize it is not gonna make it better. :\ Tim, I think you can explain it better than me. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:07, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::Obvious answer: how do you know they ''are''? Maybe they are. ''Maybe'' Connor Moron is secretly a military genius fooling everyone in the world into thinking he's a useless waste of a coffin because of some massive strategy mere mortals could not comprehend. ''Maybe'' the reason STANAG magazines can't be swapped between STANAG weapons is because they were cursed by a giant wizard. ''Maybe'' the M4 has just been modified to fire in fullauto with the selector on semi and the grenades are special ones that don't need the pin to be pulled out and the M203 is a magic one that doesn't need to actually fire the rounds it fires and so on. A lot of things are "possibilities," but if the game doesn't explain them itself it is not our job to try to invent fanon to fill in the gaps. Such writing is termed "spackle." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:16, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
:::I have no idea what you just said and im not gonna argue, you win.-Gunner5

== Magpul Masada ==

Do we need a Magpul Masada part in Homefront? We've already clarified it isnt in the actual game, just in the pre-realease trailers.--Gunner5

:Weapons in trailers still count if they can be identified. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:11, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== M110 is SR-25/Mark 11 Mod 0 ==
Wrong rail system to be an M110. The 110 uses Knight's URX rail system, which gives it an uninterrupted top rail for mounting optics. The forearm on the in-game rifle has a delta ring between it and the receiver, identifying it as Knight's free-float RAS used on the SR-25 and Mark 11 Mod 0. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:27, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

== Homefront 2 ==

I just read that Crytek will develop Homefront 2 [http://www.crytek.com/news/thq-and-crytek-collaborate-to-develop-next-homefront-title]. Considering how both this game and Crysis 2 sucked balls, I cannot wait to shoot enemy soldiers with a Swarmer-like rock-it launcher. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:36, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

:"Homefront’s unique setting and storyline captivated gamers the world over" <-So apparently THQ's brass are outright delusional. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:41, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

:IMO, Crysis 2 was better than Homefront, and I'd prefer that Crytek will develop a continues storyline to Crysis 2. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:44, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

::Eh, Crysis 2 wasn't as good as the original, and it still has the record for "protagonist who spends the most time lying in a heap." And it ignored the plot of it's own prequel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:46, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

:I really wished Kaos Studios made Frontlines 2 instead of Homefront, and Crytek made Crysis 2 in the vein of Crysis: Maximum Edition. Nonlinear > linear, whenever possible. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:52, 13 October 2011 (CDT)

== Why did they choose a Express model 870? ==

This baffles me, why did they choose the inferior model of the 870? The gun is pretty crappy.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:16, 13 October 2011 (CDT)

:Probably for the same reason as MK107. Kaos Studios (or THQ) made a deal with Remington in addition to making a deal with PWS. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:10, 14 October 2011 (CDT)

::But why an Express? Why not a Wingmaster.

Talk:Homefront (2011 VG)

2011-10-13T19:16:09Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Why did they choose a Express model 870? */ new section

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-10-13T04:24:59Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Heckler & Koch MP5A2 */

{{Upcoming}}
[[Image:Cover_MW3.jpg‎|thumb|300px|right|''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3'' (2011)]]

'''''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3''''' (also known as ''CoD:MW3'' or ''MW3'') is the upcoming eighth installment of the ''[[Call of Duty]]'' series, and the third main entry in the ''Modern Warfare'' sub-franchise, continuing the story of ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]''. The game has variously been developed by Infinity Ward, Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software, and will be published by Activision for the PC, PS3 and Xbox 360. The current release date is set at November 8, 2011.

'''The following weapons are known to be featured in the upcoming video game, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3:'''

'''Official images only!'''

= Handguns =

== FN Five-seveN ==

As of now, the [[FN Five-seveN]] incorrectly holds 15 rounds instead of 20. Could be a replacement for the [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92SB|Beretta 92SB]] from the previous ''Modern Warfare'' games. It is held one handed in a manner similar to the "Glock 18" from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'' and the ASP from ''[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]''.

[[Image:FN-FiveSeven USG.jpg|thumb|none|350px|FN Five-seveN USG - 5.7x28mm.]]
[[File:CODMW3-FN57.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The FN Five-seveN as seen in recent gameplay footage on the show ''Late Night with Jimmy Fallon''.]]
[[File:CODMW3-FN57-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The reloading animation of the FN Five-seveN as seen in recent gameplay footage on ''Late Night with Jimmy Fallon''.]]

== Heckler & Koch USP45 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch USP|H&K USP45]] returns and can be seen on a character's back in the multiplayer world premiere trailer. It is equipped with an under-barrel mounted flashlight.

[[Image:HK-USP.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch USP - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MW3USP1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|H&K USP45 on a player's back for some odd reason. This same modeling mistake is present in ''Modern Warfare 2'' but not present in ''Black Ops''.]]

== Walther P99 ==

The [[Walther P99|P99]] pistol can be seen in footage of the ''Call of Duty'' XP event.

[[Image:WaltherP99 twotoneA.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Walther P99 with silver slide - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MW3-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|P99 in the create-a-class menu screen.]]

== Glock 18C ==

The [[Glock|Glock 18C]] can be seen in the E3 Footage.

[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 18C - 9x19mm]]
[[File:CODMW3-G18-icon.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Glock 18C swap icon.]]

== MP-412 REX ==

The [[MP-412 REX]] has been seen in screenshots of the class menu.

[[Image:Mp-412-1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MP-412 REX - .357]]
[[Image:MP412_in-game.jpg|thumb|none|200px|The MP412 seen in the class menu]]

== Colt Anaconda ==

The [[Colt Anaconda]] returns as the ".44 Magnum" in the game and is unlocked at level 46 in multiplayer. It appears to have wooden or Hogue grips.

[[Image:Colt Anaconda HQ.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Anaconda with 6" barrel - .44 Magnum]]

== Desert Eagle ==

The [[Desert Eagle]] has been seen in gameplay footage.

[[Image:Desert-Eagle.jpeg|thumb|400px|none|Desert Eagle Marx XIX with black finish - .50 AE]]
[[Image:MW3_Deagle_Akimbo.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The player character dual-wields Desert Eagles. Note how the hammers are solidly in the uncocked position and thus, the pistol wouldn't fire in real life.]]

= Submachine Guns =

== Heckler & Koch MP5A2 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP5A2|H&K MP5A2]] is a new weapon shown in the screenshots and could be a replacement for ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'s'' [[MP5K]]. In the screenshot, the MP5A2 rail system seems to be modeled after the real life Knights Armament rail system for the MP5.

[[Image:H&KMP5-N.jpg|thumb|none|450px|H&K MP5A2 with Navy trigger group - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:KACMP5RSRAIL.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Knights Armament Company rail system, MP5.]]
[[File:CODMW3-MP5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A British SAS soldier runs across a London street armed with an MP5A2 in the reveal trailer.]]
[[File:CODMW3-MP5-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several British SAS soldiers fire their MP5A2's at an approaching truck.]]
[[File:CODMW3-MP5-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In this screenshot the MP5's seem to lack a handguard.The gas port and barrel underneath can be seen clearly.The R.I.S. is evident, but obscure. Also note Navy-pattern flash hiders.]]
[[File:CODMW3-MP5-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force Operators are seen infiltrating the Russian submarine in the game's E3 gameplay footage. ]]
[[File:Mw3 mp5a2 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading an MP5A2 with red dot sight from the Spec Ops Survival mode trailer. Note that the selector switch is set to a nonexistent semi-auto mode.]]
[[File:Mw3 mp5a2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two MP5A2s can be seen on the ground to the right of the Hesco.]]
[[image:MW3_SAS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SAS operatives with MP5A2s equipped with suppressors as seen in the 'Reveal' trailer.]]

== Heckler & Koch MP5K ==

A [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Heckler & Koch MP5K|MP5K]] makes an appearance in the newest Spec-Ops Survival mode trailer. Note that the variant depicted in-game features a railed handguard and a MP5A2 buttstock.

[[Image:MP5KA3.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch MP5KN - 9x19mm.]]
[[image:MW3MP5K1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP5K in-game, featuring a EOTech XPS holographic sight attachment.]]

== Heckler & Koch UMP45 ==

A [[UMP|Heckler & Koch UMP45]] has been seen in the Reveal trailer.

[[image:UMP_45.jpg|thumb|none|450px| Heckler & Koch UMP45 - .45 ACP.]]
[[image:CODMW3-UMP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An unknown soldier fires his H&K UMP45 at a group of other soldiers in the reveal trailer.]]
[[Image:MW3-UMP45.jpg|thumb|none|600px|UMP45 in the game.]]

== TDI Vector ==

The [[TDI Vector]] can be seen slung over a soldier's shoulder in a trailer.

[[Image:KrissSuperV.jpg|thumb|none|450px|TDI Vector SMG - .45 ACP]]
[[image:CODBO-TDIVector.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An American spec-ops operative is seen with a TDI Vector slung over on his shoulder in the Call of Duty Elite trailer, identified by the stock.]]

== FN P90TR ==

An [[FN P90#P90TR|FN P90TR (Triple Rail)]] fitted with a reflex sight can be seen lying on the ground in the Reveal trailer. The P90 is also seen in the hands of Russian submarine crewmen in the gameplay demo.

[[Image:FN_P90_Triple_Rail_(TR).jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|FN P90TR - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:MW3-P90TR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|P90TR on the ground.]]
[[File:CODMW3-P90.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The P90TR swap icon.]]

== Magpul FMG-9 ==

The [[Magpul FMG-9]] can be seen in the multiplayer teaser at the end of the recent Spec-ops trailer.

[[Image:MagpulFMG-9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Magpul FMG-9 - 9x19mm. Top in folded box form, bottom in folded out submachine gun form.]]
[[Image:FMG1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FMG-9 in idle.]]
[[Image:FMG2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Start of the nifty draw animation. Note that 'FMG' can be seen on the side of the weapon.]]
[[Image:FMG3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|More of the draw animation.]]
[[Image:MW3-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Minebea M-9 ==

The [[Minebea M-9]] is confirmed and can be seen in screenshots of the class menu.

[[Image:Minebea M-9 submachine gun (Japan).jpg|thumb|400px|none|Minebea M-9 (Current Model) - 9x19mm]]

== CZ Vz. 61 E Skorpion ==

The [[Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion|CZ Vz. 61 E Skorpion]] has been seen in footage of the ''Call of Duty'' XP Multiplayer event.

[[Image:Yugoslav_Model_61_Skorpion.jpg|thumb|none|350px|CZ Vz. 61 E / Yugoslavian made M84 distinguishable by its black pistol grip - .32 ACP]]
[[Image:MW3-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== PP-90M1 ==

The [[PP-90M1]] is confirmed and has been seen in footage of the ''Call of Duty'' XP Multiplayer event.

[[Image:Pp90m1-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|PP-90M1 - 9x18mm PM]]
[[Image:MW3-PM90M1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3-PM90M1reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Heckler & Koch MP7 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP7|MP7]] has been confirmed and can be seen in screenshots of the class menu.

[[Image:H&K MP71A1.jpg‎ |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 with factory magazine and iron sights - 4.6x30mm]]

== Brügger & Thomet MP9 ==

The [[Brügger & Thomet MP-9]] returns, this time correctly called a MP9.

[[Image:Mp9tmp.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Brügger & Thomet MP-9 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MW3-MP9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|B&T MP9 with red dot sight.]]

= Assault Rifles & Battle Rifles =

== Colt M4A1 Carbine ==

The [[M4A1]] model used in the game features flip-up iron sights, a Magpul MOE Carbine Stock, a Magpul 20-round STANAG magazine and a customized charging handle. It can be equipped with a SureShot reflex sight, EOTech XPS Holographic sight, EOTech flip-to-side magnifier and / or a RIS foregrip. Some NPCs seen in the 'Reveal' trailer were instead carrying the M4A1 model used in ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'', though this is likely to simply have been a recycled model used during development. As in many games, the fire selector is shown on semi-auto even though the weapon fires in full-auto.

Recent footage shows the player will be able to manually operate the flip-to-side magnifier at will.

[[Image:ColtM4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Colt M4A1 Carbine with Aimpoint M68 red dot sight and Knight's Armament RAS railed handguard and vertical forward grip - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:CODMW3-M4-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Master Sergeant "Sandman" passing the player a magazine. Note that "Sandman" is holding ''Modern Warfare 2's'' M4A1 model, probably a placeholder in-world model used during development.]]
[[Image:CODMW3-M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character reloads his M4A1 with a 20-round STANAG magazine he just received.]]
[[File:MW3 Protagonist with M4A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the protagonists running from a RPG-stricken Hind with a M4A1 Grenadier in hand in the campaign trailer.]]
[[File:CODMW3-M4A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M4A1 swap icon.]]
[[File:MW3_M4A1_pic.jpg|thumb|none|630px|Recent footage showing the M4A1 used by the player as a French GIGN operative, fitted with red dot sight, suppressor and RIS foregrip.]]

== Colt M16A4 ==

The [[M16 rifle series#M16A4 Rifle|M16A4]] appears in the trailer for Spec-ops mode.

[[Image:M16A4Standard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Colt M16A4 with carry handle attached and standard A2 handguards - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MW3M161.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 with red dot optic attached.]]

== Colt CM901 ==

The [[Colt CM901]] was first seen used by the player character in the Spec-Ops' Survival mode trailer, later seen used in gameplay footage of the ''Call of Duty'': XP event. It is seen fitted with a shorter barrel, EOTech XPS Holographic sight, EOTech flip-to-side magnifier, and a Magpul 20LR PMAG.

[[Image:CM901.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Colt CM901 - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]
[[Image:COLTCm901v12345604.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Colt CM901 visible in the Survival Spec-Ops trailer. Evidenced by the mating of the receivers and the cutouts on the handguard.]]
[[File:MW3_SP901_1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The CM901 in multiplayer gameplay footage.]]

== Custom AK-47 ==

A custom [[AK-47]] can be seen in the hands of Russian solders in the 'Reveal' trailer. Later on it can also be seen being used by a player called "thelegendofkarl" in the first Elite trailer and on the Spec-Ops Survival trailer.

[[Image:MW3 AK 47.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Custom AK-47 - 7.62x39mm, similar to the one in game.]]
[[Image:CODMW3-AK47.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Russian soldier is seen with a customized AK-47 in the reveal trailer showing that the Russians have taken the Czech Republic.]]
[[Image:CODMW3-AK47-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another Russian soldier is seen aiming his customized AK-47 at a line of prisoners in the reveal trailer.]]
[[Image:Thelegendofkarl.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AK-47 used by player "thelegendofkarl" in the first Call of Duty Elite trailer.]]
[[Image:MW3AK1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AK-47 as seen in the Spec-ops trailer.]]
[[Image:MW3AK2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AK-47 with optic attached.]]
[[Image:MW3AK3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AK-47's sight picture.]]
[[File:CODMW3-AK47-icon.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AK-47 swap icon.]]

== "AK-74u" ==

The fake [[AKS-74U]] from ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]'' seems to have returned to its second sequel. The mix and mash of different Kalashnikovs appears in game still being incorrectly referred to as an "AK-74u", which doesn't exist, and will probably be incorrectly called a submachine gun. It is modeled on the JG "AK Beta-F" airsoft rifle, which is an AKS-47 with a very, very short front end, an AKS-74U gas block/front sight, flash hider, and rear sight, and black polymer furniture with an RIS rail on the handguard. The version in game appears to have bakelite magazines, which led to some to believe it actually was a 74, however the curve of the magazine give away that it is in fact based on a 47.

[[File:Jg-ak47s-fs.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A JG "AK Beta-F" airsoft rifle, one of the few airsoft guns not based on a real-world model.]]
[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Actual AKS-74U for comparison - 5.45x39mm.]]
[[File:CODMW3-AKS74U-icon.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AKS-74u swap icon.]]

== FAMAS ==

A possible variant of the [[FAMAS]] was spotted in the 'Reveal' trailer.

[[Image:Famas.jpg|thumb|none|450px|FAMAS F1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:CODMW3-FAMAS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The FAMAS as seen in the reveal trailer]]

== Remington ACR ==

The [[Remington ACR]] has been spotted in the recent trailer for Call of Duty's 'Elite' service. In the Spec Ops Survival trailer, "ACR 6.8" is listed as a purchasable weapon, implying that the in-game version is chambered in 6.8mm SPC.

[[Image:Bushmasteracrentry.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Remington ACR Entry Carbine - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:CODMW3-PKP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player holds the ACR in a Co-Op match. Note Remington logo on the rifle.]]
[[Image:CODMW3-ACR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Remington ACR seen wielded by a US Army soldier.]]
[[Image:CODMW3-ACR-wallpaper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sandman holding the ACR in the Amazon pre-order wallpaper. Note the projection in front of the magazine release catch and the lack of an ejection port, this is the same modeling mistake that the [[AR-15]] variants in the previous Modern Warfare games have.]]

== Heckler & Koch G36C ==

A [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|H&K G36C]] is seen shortly after the armory list is shown in the trailer for Spec-Ops' Survival mode.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MW3G36C1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|G36C during reload.]]
[[Image:MW3G36C2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|G36C - Note that the trades on the side claim the weapon to be a G36KE1.]]

== Heckler & Koch G36KV ==

The [[Heckler & Koch G36K|Heckler & Koch G36KV]] is used as an LMG in the game and is incorrectly dubbed the "MG36".

[[Image:HKG36KR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch G36KV with rail top carry handle (originally introduced for G36C) - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MW3-G36KV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player reloads his G36KV.]]

== FAD Assault Rifle ==

A [[FAD Assault Rifle]] can be seen in an image on the front page of Sledgehammer's website.

[[Image:MW3FAD2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|FAD assault rifle]]

== FN SCAR-L ==

The [[FN SCAR-L]] is confirmed seen in the ''Call of Duty'' XP event.

[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|500px|none|Third-Generation FN SCAR-L - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:MW3-SCAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FN SCAR-L during killcam.]]

== Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR ==

A [[M14 Rifle#Mk 14 Mod 0/1 Enhanced Battle Rifle|Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR]] can be seen in concept art.

[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Mk. 14 Mod. 0 EBR with a Harris bipod and vertical RIS foregrip - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MW3 Concept Art.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Concept art showing the Mk. 14 EBR. Note Captain Price in front of the player]]

== QBZ-95 ==

A [[QBZ-95]] is a confirmed weapon. Fires in 3-round burst mode.

[[Image:Type95-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Norinco QBZ-95 - 5.8x42mm]]

= Sniper Rifles =

== Remington MSR ==

A [[Remington MSR]] can be seen in the multiplayer world premiere trailer. Probably a replacement for the [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention|CheyTac M200 Intervention]] from Modern Warfare 2.

[[Image:MSR alt.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Remington MSR - .338 Lapua Magnum]]
[[Image:MW3MSR1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Remington MSR]]

== Remington RSASS ==

A Remington RSASS can be seen in screenshots of the class menu.

[[Image:MW3-RSASS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Icon of the RSASS during Create-A-Class.]]
[[Image:RSASS MW3 being loaded.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A RSASS being loaded by one of the protagonists during an assassination attempt on Makarov in the campaign trailer. Note the attachment of a back-up red dot sight in conjunction with a sniper scope.]]
[[Image:RSASS MW3 SAS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An RSASS being used by the same protagonist in the Prague streets.]]

== Barrett M107 ==

The [[Barrett M107]] can be seen in footage of the the ''Call of Duty'' XP Multiplayer event. It is incorrectly modeled with ejection ports on both sides of the receiver.

[[Image:Berrett_M107.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Barrett M107 long range sniper rifle - .50 BMG.]]
[[Image:MW3-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Barrett .50cal" during weapon selection.]]
[[Image:MW3-M107.jpg|thumb|none|600px|First person view.]]

== Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Magnum ==

An [[Accuracy International Arctic Warfare#Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Magnum|Accuracy International AWM]] can be seen in the ''Call of Duty'' XP Multiplayer event. It is incorrectly called a "L118A" ingame. It is not, as previously suggested, a regular Arctic Warfare, as it has a folding stock and a fluted barrel, both lacked by the conventional AW.

[[Image:Accuracy International Arctic WarfareM - Psg 90.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Accuracy International AWSM .338 Lapua Magnum]]
[[Image:MW3-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|L118A1 during class selection.]]
[[Image:MW3-AW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|First person view.]]

== Accuracy International AS50 ==

The [[Accuracy International AS50]] can be seen in screenshots. It is incorrectly modeled with it's ejection port on the left side.
[[Image:As50sr.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AI AS50 - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:MW3-AS50-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AS50 in first-person view.]]
[[Image:MW3-AS50-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character throws away the magazine...]]
[[Image:MW3-AS50-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And inserts the new one.]]

== SVD Dragunov ==

A [[SVD Dragunov]] can be seen in the class menu list and in the latest multiplayer trailer.

[[Image:SVD-TigerCarbine.jpg‎|thumb|none|550px|Russian SVD-M modernized sniper rifle with synthetic furniture and bipod - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:MW3_SVD.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SVD used by a soldier in the latest multiplayer trailer.]]

= Shotguns =

== AA-12 ==

A customized [[AA-12]] shotgun with rail mounts and a somewhat pointless spare shell holder has been seen in gameplay trailers and in the E3 gameplay footage.

[[Image:AA12FullAutoShotGun.jpg|thumb|450px|none|MPS Auto Assault-12 - 12 Gauge ]]
[[File:CODMW3-AA12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The customized AA-12 shotgun as seen in the E3 gameplay footage.]]

== Franchi SPAS-12 ==

A pickup icon for the [[Franchi SPAS-12]] has been seen in gameplay trailers.

[[Image:SPAS12.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Franchi SPAS-12 - 12 Gauge]]
[[File:CODMW3-SPAS12-icon.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The SPAS-12 swap icon.]]

== Winchester 1887 ==

The sawed-off [[Winchester Model 1887]] from ''MW2'' has been confirmed and was seen in Survival gameplay. It has been heavily modified and now features ghost ring sights and synthetic furniture.

[[Image:M1887 Airsoft.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Replica Model 1887 - 12 Gauge]]
[[File:CODMW3-M1887.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Winchester Model 1887 swap icon.]]

== USAS-12 ==

The [[USAS-12]] has been seen as an option within Spec-ops mode's weapon purchase menu.

[[Image:USAS12.jpg|thumb|none|500px|USAS-12 with 10-round magazine - 12-gauge]]
[[Image:WPM1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|USAS-12 appearing on a list of purchasable weapons.]]

== Armsel Striker ==

The [[Armsel Striker and variants#Armsel Striker|Armsel Striker]] can be seen in gameplay footage from the ''Call of Duty'': XP event.

[[Image:Striker.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armsel Striker Shotgun - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:MW3-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Striker in the class menu.]]
[[Image:MW3_Striker1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character draws his Striker.]]
[[Image:MW3_Striker2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another show of the Striker.]]

== Kel-Tec KSG ==

The [[Kel-Tec KSG]] is a bullpup shotgun with two magazine-tubes. Appears as the "KSG 12" in-game.

[[Image:Kel-Tec_KSG_Shotgun_Oleg_Volk_1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Kel-Tec KSG - 12 gauge]]

= Machine Guns =

== M60E4 ==

The [[M60 machine gun#M60E4 Machine Gun|M60E4]] appears as an option on a list of purchasable weapons in the Spec-ops trailer.

[[Image:M60E4 large.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M60E4 machine gun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:WPM1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M60E4 on the list.]]

== RPD ==

The [[RPD light machine gun]] can be seen in hands of Russian occupying forces in the Prague level.

[[Image:RPD-Light-Machine-Gun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|RPD - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:CODMW3-RPD.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Russian soldiers walk down the streets of Prague, several of them armed with RPD machine guns.]]

== PKP Pecheneg ==

The [[PK Machine Gun#PKP Pecheneg Machine Gun|PKP Pecheneg]] can be seen in the hands of the Juggernaut soldier.

[[Image:Pecheneg.jpg|thumb|none|500px|PKP Pecheneg machine gun with ammo box - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[File:CODMW3-PKP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Juggernaut soldier carries the PKP.]]

== FN M249 Para ==

Despite being called "MK46" in-game, this weapon is actually an [[FN Minimi|FN M249 Para]] with the RIS handguard of a [[FN Minimi#Mk 46 Mod 0|Mk 46]]. The machine gun can be seen in the hands of an enemy player in the multiplayer world premiere trailer.

[[Image:M249ParaWAmmo.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN M249 Para - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:MW3MK461.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Enemy player firing the M249 Para.]]
[[Image:MW3-M249.jpg|thumb|none|600px|First person view. Note the STANAG magazine well below the ammo-belt. The Mk46 has this removed to reduce weight.]]
[[Image:M249_sentry.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An M249 Para mounted on a sentry robot.]]

== FN M240B ==

The [[M240B]] machine gun has been seen in screenshots.

[[File:M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|550px|M240B with newer style lower handguard (designed to attach RIS rails via hex nut) - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]
[[File:MW3M2401.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M240B held by the player character, fitted with red dot sight.]]

= Emplaced Weapons =

== DShK heavy machine gun ==

The [[DShK heavy machine gun]] was first seen in the 'Reveal' trailer, mounted on a Russian T-90 main battle tank during a huge battle in Germany. In the latest multiplayer trailer, a possible DShK is mounted on an M5-like sentry gun auto turret.

[[Image:DShKM-vehicle-mount.jpg|thumb|none|400px|DShKM heavy machine gun in standard vehicle mounting on a Romanian TR-85 main battle tank - 12.7x108mm]]
[[File:CODMW3-DSHK.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The DShk as seen in the 'Reveal' trailer, mounted on a Russian T-90 tank, before being destroyed by an American A-10 Thunderbolt II (a.k.a., "The Warthog").]]
[[File:MW3_DShK.jpg|thumb|none|600px|DShK sentry gun, as seen in the latest multiplayer trailer. Note the end of the barrel.]]

== Dillon Aero Minigun ==
The [[GE M134 Minigun#Dillon Aero Minigun|Dillon Aero Minigun]] is an emplaced weapon returns from the previous Modern Warfare titles, and was seen first in the ''"Reveal"'' trailer, later on E3's gameplay demo. it should be noted that the [[Minigun]] is incorrectly mounted on the right doorway of a UH-60 Black Hawk instead directly on its right window. This mistake also appears in ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]''. The Minigun can be also seen mounted as an M5 sentry gun auto-turret like in ''Modern Warfare 2'' and ''[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]''.

[[Image:Minigun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Dillon Aero M134 with flash suppressor - 7.62x51mm.]]

[[File:CODMW3-M134.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SGT Derek "Frost" Westbrook fires the Black Hawk's Minigun to shoot down a Russian Mi-24 'Hind' gunship.]]

[[File:M134_price.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Capt. Price pulls out a robot with a Minigun mounted, in the new ''"Redemption"'' trailer. Note how Price wears his Modern Warfare 2's desert uniform, and the Task Force 141 patch is also visible on his back pouch.]]

== Mk 19 Grenade Launcher ==
The [[Mk 19 grenade launcher|Mk 19 Grenade Launcher]] was spotted in the newest trailer of Spec-Ops' Survival mode, mounted on a stand which can be moved by the player character.

[[Image:MK19-02.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mk 19 grenade launcher with ammo box on M3 tripod - 40mm]]
[[Image:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-31-57.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mk 19 in front of the player, designated as "turret".]]

== M61 Vulcan==

[[M61 Vulcan]] cannons can be seen [[M61_Vulcan#General_Dynamics_.2F_Raytheon_Phalanx_Close-In_Weapon_System|Phalanx installations]] in screenshots of the naval battle in New York harbour.

[[Image:Phalanx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GE M61 Vulcan in a Phalanx mounting - 20mm]]
[[Image:NYHarbor MW3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Phalanx CIWS installation is visible above the 5-inch gun of the ''Arleigh Burke''-class destroyer to the left of the shot.]]

= Launchers =

== AT4 ==

A pickup icon for the [[M136 AT4]] has been seen in gameplay trailers.

[[Image:AT-4Launcher.jpg‎ |thumb|none|500px|M136 AT4 Anti-Tank recoilless launcher - 84mm]]
[[File:CODMW3-AT4-icon.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AT4 swap icon.]]

== RPG-7 ==

An [[RPG-7]]V rocket can be seen in air, in the Paris level, indicating the presence of the RPG-7 in the game.

[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg |thumb|none|500px|RPG-7 - 40mm]]
[[File:CODMW3-RPG7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An RPG-7 rocket flies through the air during a street battle in Paris, narrowly missing the soldier running for cover.]]
[[Image:MW3_RPG-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPG-7 on the back of an enemy player.]]

== Heckler & Koch XM-25 ==

Gameplay footage showing the player holding a [[Heckler & Koch XM25]] has been seen in trailers.

[[Image:ATKXM25.jpg|thumb|none|450px|XM25 Grenade Launcher - 25mm.]]
[[Image:CODMW3-XM25.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The H&K XM-25 is seen in the most recent gameplay demo being used by Delta Force Operators in the battle on the roof of New York City's Stock Exchange.]]
[[Image:MW3_XM25_1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A side view of the XM-25.]]
[[Image:MW3_XM25_2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A view of the XM-25's sight.]]

== Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW ==

The [[Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW]] can be seen in gameplay footage from the ''Call of Duty'': XP event.

[[Image:Mk153SMAW.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW - 83mm]]
[[Image:MW3_M153_1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player aims the SMAW.]]
[[Image:MW3_M153_2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot of the SMAW after being fired.]]
[[Image:MW3_M153_3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SMAW on a player's back.]]

== FGM-148 Javelin ==

The [[FGM-148 Javelin]] can be seen in screenshots of the class menu.

[[Image:Javalin.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FGM-148 Javelin 127mm]]
[[Image:MW3-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Heckler & Koch M320 ==
A standalone [[Heckler & Koch M320]] grenade launcher can be seen in the multiplayer premiere. It is a possible replacement for ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'s'' [[M79 grenade launcher]]. It is unclear at this stage if it can also be mounted as an attachment.

[[Image:XM320 stock extended.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch M320 with optional telescoping stock - 40x46mm.]]

[[Image:MW3M320-1-.jpg|thumb|none|200px|The M320 EGLM in the game.]]

[[Image:M320_rld.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player reloads his M320 in the new ''"Redemption"'' trailer.]]

= Attachments =

== M203 grenade launcher ==

The [[M203]] is shown on an M4 in a trailer.

[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 Grenade Launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:CODMW3-M4-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M203 Grenade Launcher mounted on an M4A1. Note the 30 round magazine on it instead of the 20 round version being tossed to the player.]]

== Knight's Armament Masterkey ==

The [[Knight's Armament Masterkey]] can be seen in the latest multiplayer trailer.

[[Image:Masterkey02.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Masterkey - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:MW3_Masterkey.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Masterkey shotgun circled in red.]]

= Explosives =

== M18 smoke grenade ==

The [[M18 smoke grenade]] was used several times by the player character in the newest Spec-Ops Survival mode trailer, used to mark targets for an AC-130 gunship.

[[Image:M18red.jpg|thumb|none|150px|M18 smoke grenade.]]
[[Image:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-45-29.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M18 in the player character's hand, about to be thrown.]]

== M67 Hand Grenade ==

[[Image:M67.jpg|thumb|none|200px|M69 training grenade - an inert version of the M67 High-Explosive Fragmentation hand grenade. The real live version has a more brownish color and has painted factory markings on the body.]]
[[Image:Frag MW3 CreateAClass.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Frag Grenade seen in Create-A-Class menu.]]

== M18A1 Claymore ==

The [[M18A1 Claymore]] was seen in the newest trailer of Spec-Ops' Survival mode.

[[Image:M18a1_07.jpg|thumb|none|250px|M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine.]]

= See Also =
* ''[[Call of Duty]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: United Offensive]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: Finest Hour]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 2]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 2: Big Red One]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 3]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Nintendo DS Version)]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: World at War]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: World at War: Final Fronts]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: World at War (DS)]]''
* ''[[MW2|Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]''

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]

Talk:M1911 pistol series

2011-10-12T03:01:15Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* Versus modern pistols */

==Additional Variants==
===Screen Used===
[[Image:EnemyofState1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Screen-used original Colt M1911 pistol wielded by [[Gene Hackman]]'s character Brill in ''[[Enemy of the State]]'', serial #357414 (photo from Long Mountain Outfitters).]]
[[Image:M1911WeWereSoldiers.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Screen used M1911 pistol (Hero Gun) carried and used by [[Sam Elliott]] as Command Sergeant Major Basil Plumley in ''[[We Were Soldiers]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1WeWereSoldiers.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Screen Used Hero Gun M1911A1, carried by [[Mel Gibson]] as Lt. Col. Hal Moore in the film ''[[We Were Soldiers]]'' - .45 ACP. Provided by Cinema Weaponry.]]
[[Image:ColtMkIVSilver DeNiro Machete.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Custom engraved nickel plated Colt MKIV Series 80 with pearl grips - .45 ACP. This is the screen used pistol for [[Robert De Niro]] playing Senator McLaughlin in the upcoming Robert Rodriguez film [[Machete]] (scheduled for release on April 16, 2010). ]]
[[Image:ColtCustomXXX.jpg‎|thumb|450px|none|This is the screen used Colt XSE M1911 Pistol, wielded, carried (and lost) by August Gibbons ([[Samuel L. Jackson]]) in the film ''[[XXX 2: State of the Union]]''. This pistol has a customized slide with the initials "A G" etched (for "Augustus Gibbons") and also has the logo for SEAL TEAM 4 in the center - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:T2M1911detonicsprop.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The Colt/Detonics M1911A1 Series 70 hybrid pistol used in the film ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]'' - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:Saradet.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Detonics 1911 used in the film ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]''. Image courtesy of ScreeUsed.com]]
[[Image:SCM1911A1-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The stainless Springfield Armory M1911A1 used by [[Benicio del Toro|Benico Del Toro]] as Detective Jack Rafferty in the film ''[[Sin City]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:TitanicM1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A Nickel-Plated ''[[Titanic]]'' M1911 from Stembridge Gun Rentals - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:P1010522ig5.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Actual D&L Sports Professional Model Longslides - .45 ACP movie props used by the Comedian [[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]] in ''[[Watchmen]]''.]]
[[Image:Wanted_21.JPG|thumb|none|450px|The Safari Arms Matchmaster used by [[Angelina Jolie]] in the film ''[[Wanted]]'' - .45 ACP. Note Safari Arms Lion logo.]]
[[Image:IMG 1666.JPG|thumb|none|450px|A Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP used on ''[[The Unit]]''. The weapon pictured here was the actual Warrior carried and fired by Dennis Haysbert in the last season.]]
[[Image:IMG 1534.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Another Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP was used in the most recent season of ''[[The Unit]]''. This was Dennis Haysbert's backup weapon in case the first failed (it is customary in Hollywood for each "hero" gun use to have at least one backup on set).]]
[[Image:BDSIIParas-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A pair of Para-Ordnance SSPs (.45 ACP) as used in ''[[The Boondock Saints II: All Saints Day]]''. The weapons pictured here were the actual screen-used guns handled and fired by Clifton Collins, Jr. in the film; note the custom grips, golden suppressors, and "El Jefe" engraved into the slides. ''(Big thanks to [[Al Vrkljan]] at Movie Armaments Group for this IMFDB Exclusive image!)'']]
[[Image:ShootEmUp-HammersonNiteTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac (.45 ACP) used in ''[[Shoot 'Em Up]]''. The weapon pictured here is one of the actual screen-used guns from the film; note the engraved Hammerson logo. ''(Big thanks to [[Al Vrkljan]] at Movie Armaments Group for this IMFDB Exclusive image!)'']]
[[Image:1911-The Getaway.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Government Commercial M1911 - .45 ACP used by [[Steve McQueen]] in the film ''[[Getaway, The (1972)]]''.]]
[[Image:M&MSColtXSEusedinfilm.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The Colt M1911A1 XSE - .45 ACP used in the film ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]''.]]
[[Image:ColtM1911A1PunisherProps.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The two blank firing prop custom Colt M1911A1s used in the film ''[[Punisher, The (2004)]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:NashBridges1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Nash Bridges' Custom 1911 - .38 Super. This is the actual pistol that was used by [[Don Johnson]] in the show ''[[Nash Bridges]]''.]]
[[Image:Colt-M1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The actual M1911A1 [[Pierce Brosnan]] used in ''[[The World Is Not Enough]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SerenityM191A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Jayne Cobb's Mocked-Up Custom M1911A1 - .45 ACP used in the film ''[[Serenity]]''.]]
[[Image:P00654 1911 Full Left.jpg|thumb|none|450px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Colt M1911 with Nickel-plated and pearl grips - .45 ACP pistol. This non-firing prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film '''[[The Other Guys]]'''. The gun is accompanied by the Galco shoulder holster and clip pouch also used in numerous scenes from the film. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TGC&Product_Code=P00654&Category_Code=OtherGuys here].]]
[[Image:IMG 1509.JPG|thumb|none|450px|A Strayer Voight Infinity - .45 ACP. This is one of the actual guns that has been used by The Company henchmen on ''[[Heroes]]''; this weapon was supplied to the show by Independent Studio Services and has been used on every season.]]
[[Image:Expendable-kimber-b.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Modified Kimber Gold Combat II used by [[Sylvester Stallone‎]] in ''[[Expendables, The|The Expendables]]'' - .45 ACP]]

[[Image:IMG 0444.JPG|thumb|none|450px|[[M1911|Colt MK IV Series 80]] - .45 ACP This was used in the film ''[[Street Kings]]'' and the series ''[[Chase]]'' and ''[[Dark Blue]]''.]]

===Airsoft Variants===
[[Image:GP WE M1911Peral lg.jpg|thumb|none|450px|An airsoft reproduction of the Springfield Armory M1911-A1 made by J-Armoury (Western Arms) used in the film ''[[Se7en]]''.]]
[[Image:CobrGold1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Perfect airsoft replica of [[Cobra]]'s Colt GC National Match - 9mm Pistol made by Western Arms.]]
[[Image:Htk1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft replica of Storm's M1911A1 from ''[[Hard to Kill]]'' - made by Western Arms.]]
[[Image:WA-WLUF_2_mark.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Replica of Castor Troy's custom Springfield Armory M1911-A1 - .45 ACP from the film ''[[Face/Off]]''.]]
[[Image:WA490 4 mark.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Long Slide Jim Hoag M1911A1 replica - .45 ACP, very similar to what Frank ([[James Caan]]) used in the film ''[[Thief]]''.]]
[[Image:Snake_.45-2.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Sheriff Co. "Custom M1911" Airsoft Gun - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SAProTac.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Airsoft replica of a Springfield Armory Loaded - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:Baby1.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Airsoft WE HiCapa 5.1 Full Metal Dragon Custom M1911 (Type B) Black Model with blue LED lights in the grip - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Detonics CombatMaster M1911 airsoft.jpg|450px|thumb|none|WE "Caspian Arms" M1911 replica of a Detonics CombatMaster M1911 or a Colt Officer's ACP - .45ACP]]
[[Image:Colt M1911.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Yu Teng 'YT385' replica of the original Colt M1911A1 model - .45ACP]]

===Other Replicas===
[[Image:Snake_.45.JPG|thumb|none|450px|CGI rendering of the Springfield Operator from the game [[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots]] - .45 ACP]]

===Other Variants===
[[File:M1911A1PreWar.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Detailed screenshot of prewar M1911A1]]
[[Image:Kimber_Ultra_Crimson_Carry_II.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Kimber Ultra Carry Crimson II - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Kongsberg M1914.JPG|thumb|450px|none|Kongsberg M1914 - .45 ACP. The Kongsberg M/1914 is a Colt M1911 pistol produced under license by the Norwegian factory Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk, with a minor modification to the slide stop and stock.]]
[[Image:.38Super1911MachinePistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The real-life Dillinger's .38 Super M1911A1 Machine Pistol, for comparison purposes.]]
[[Image:SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 1911 PISTOL.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory M1911A1 mil-spec stainless - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:SpringfieldArmoryM1911A1stainless.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory M1911A1 "Mil-Spec" - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ED 45.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AMT Hardballer Longslide with laserlock sight as used in the film ''[[The Terminator]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:AMT_Hardballer_Hitman_Replica.jpg|390px|thumb|none|A near-perfect, firing, replica of the "Silverballers" from the Hitman series.]]

[[Image:MilSpec-1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Mil-spec M1911A1 - .45 ACP. This was one of the most commonly seen .45s used by LAPD SWAT before the Kimber Custom TLE II.]]
[[Image:0862731R.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M1911A1 Commercial (Same marks of the movie's pistol) - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:PC9111.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Professional 1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1ithaca.jpg|thumb|none|450px|World War II Ithaca made M1911A1 with light grey finish - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:PublicEnemies1.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Pre-War Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP used on ''[[Public Enemies]]'' (2009)]]
[[Image:SW1911pd.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911PD Tactical Rail - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:1911 Longslide.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP. This model is very similar to the one in the episode on the ''[[Miami Vice (TV Series)]]''.]]
[[Image:Colt45.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M1911A1 .45 ACP with Pachymar grips]]
[[Image:Taurus PT1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Taurus PT1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Bruni8mm.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Bruni M1911A1-style blank firing stage prop - 8mm blank.]]
[[Image:Para1911G.I..jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para 1911 G.I. Expert - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SA_loaded_m1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Loaded M1911A1 - .45 ACP similar to the one used by Sydney Bristow from ''[[Alias]]''.]]
[[Image:Peter-1-5006-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Federal Ordnance PSP-07 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:TIKI.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Strayer Voight Infinity TIKI - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:CustomM1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom Colt Series 80 M1911A1 pistol similair to one in the film ''[[Street Kings]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:LaserAimSeriesIIIPistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|LaserAim Series III Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:KimberUltraRaptor.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Kimber Stainless Ultra Raptor - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Para645LDA.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para-Ordnance 6.45 LDA with spare magazines - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ColtDefenderRIGHT83.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Defender - .45 ACP was similar to the one used in the game ''[[Uncharted 2: Among Thieves]]''.]]
[[Image:GM45M1911A1-3.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Hybrid 1911 "Gladys" fitted with a nickel plated three cut compensator - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Delta 001.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Delta Elite - 10mm Auto]]
[[Image:SM178017.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911 Pro Series - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:SW108282.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:KimberWarrior.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP like the one in the show ''[[24 - Season 8|24]]''.]]
[[Image:FLX 2.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Nighthawk FLX - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Triple_Tap_IMM_Open_pistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|This SVI 1911 - .45 ACP is almost exactly like the one used in the film ''[[Triple Tap]]''. The description on the website reads, "IMM Open pistol made of carbon steel with Titanium compensator." (Picture supplied by sviguns.com)]]
[[Image:CaptainPriceSALoaded.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Captain Price SA Loaded - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:NiteTac.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:1911WideSpur.png|thumb|none|450px|Springfield GI 1911 A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ColtM1991A1L.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt M1991A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:The Veteran Colt 1991A1 Series 80.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt M1991A1 Series 80 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1USAF.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Black Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Springfield_ultra_compact.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Springfield Armory Ultra Compact - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:PX9105MLP.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Loaded MC Operator - .45ACP]]

==Video game appearances of this pistol series==

Why is it that the "Video Game appearances" tables have a column named "Passwords"? I don't think it's for passwords to unlock them, because to my knowledge very few video games actually have a password system to unlock weapons. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a "Notes" after the "Mods" section where certain pertinent but miscellaneous information can be written, such as what copyright-infringement-avoiding name it goes under in the game, or whether it is chambered in a non-standard caliber?

I'd like this cleared up. Oh, and someone needs to include a note saying that "mods" is short for "modifications/customizations for the weapon," not "downloadable modifications to the game itself."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 06:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Frankly I think both the "Mods" and "Passwords" sections can go, since the latter is pointless and the former's purpose can be adequately served by "Notes". --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 15:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

==Colt Government Model Section==
With regard to the following sentence:

''"Aside from Colt selling the M1911A1 to the US military, the gun was also sold under the name "Colt Government Model" to the civilian market, and called the "Pre-Series 70" guns today."''

First, the Colt Government Model was introduced in 1912, and as such, it was originally in the M1911 configuration. When the U.S. Military switched to the M1911A1 configuration in the mid 1920s, Colt began manufacturing their Government Models in the M1911A1 configuration as well. So early Government Models parallel the military's M1911 configuration, while later Government Models (after the mid 1920s) parallel the military's M1911A1 configuration. Additionally, not only pre-Series 70 guns are Government Models. Series 70 and Series 80 guns are both Government Models. In fact, Colt still makes the Government Model to this day in various configurations.

With regard to the following sentence:

''"For IMFDB purposes, this can also be referred to as an M1911A1. In this manner, there is no need to list film, television, anime, video games in this section."''

It is sloppy to refer to a Colt Government Model as an M1911A1. "M1911A1" is the U.S. Military designation for a particular type of gun, and most of them were not even made by Colt (Remington Rand [the typewriter company] made most of them). I can see referring to a gun as an "M1911 type" or "M1911A1 type" if the manufacturer can't be determined, but when you simply type "M1911" or "M1911A1" you are referring to a U.S. Military contract pistol.

On top of that, the pictured gun in the Colt Government Model section is not even a "Pre-Series 70", it is a pre-enhanced Series 80 Government Model.

--[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 21:44, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

:So it's like how we don't call it the Beretta M9, we call it the Beretta 92FS. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 03:52, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

::With the M9 vs. 92FS situation, it is next to impossible to tell the difference between the two onscreen, unless there is a closeup allowing one to read the markings. In such cases I would say, if a civilian character is using the gun, it is probably intended to be a 92F or 92FS. If a military character is using it, it is probably intended to be an M9, regardless of what the actual prop is. I would assume that most—if not all—movie and TV props are actually 92Fs or 92FSs, because I don't believe that actual M9s have ever been made available for civilian sale.

::With the M1911 or M1911A1 vs. the Colt Government Model (or other brands of 1911-type guns), it is usually possible to tell the difference onscreen without being able to read the markings. For example, the Colt Government Model does not have a lanyard loop. Most M1911A1s were parkerized, while no Government Models were parkerized. When dealing with more modern Government Models, there are even more differences. For example, starting in 1950, Government Models started coming with a full-shelf thumb safety; while all M1911[A1]s had partial-shelf thumb safeties. Also at this time, Government Models started being given a finish with polished flats and matte radiuses, while blued and Du-Lite (similar to bluing in appearance) M1911A1s had polished radiuses and brushed flats or entirely polished (depending on the manufacturer and/or time of manufacture); and of course the more common parkerized M1911A1s were simply all matte.

::Additionally, the newer Government Models as mentioned above have narrow hammers with polished sides left "in the white", and polished chamber hoods also left "in the white". Many M1911A1s had wide-spur hammers, and the ones that had narrow hammers were fully finished (no polished "in the white" sides) and they all had fully blued barrels, including the otherwise parkerized ones (no polished "in the white" chamber hoods).

::Most of the Government Models you see onscreen from the early 70s to the mid-to-late '80s were actually 9mm versions, though they were usually representing a "forty-five" onscreen. This had to do with reliable functioning with readily available 9mm blanks. Colt introduced the 9mm version of the Government Model when they introduced the Series 70 in the early 1970s, and the 9mm version of the CGM had a lowered ejection port (while the .45 ACP version still had the standard military style ejection port). With the introduction of the Series 80 Government Model in 1983, the .45 ACP version also got a lowered ejection port. No M1911[A1] had a lowered ejection port.

::I'll give an example. In the show Magnum, P.I., his gun is blued with polished flats and matte radiuses; polished "in the white" chamber hood and hammer sides, and a lowered ejection port. It is clear from looking that the gun is a Series 70 Colt Government Model chambered for 9mm (though it was always addressed as a "forty-five" in the show's dialogue); and is definitely not an M1911A1. Recently the gun came up for auction and is now in the NRA's National Firearms Museum, and it has been confirmed that that is exactly what the main prop gun was (serial # 70L33101 to be exact).

::--[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 21:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

==Primary M1911 description==
Who wrote this? The historical paragraph (on the background of the M1911) implies that the M1911 was replaced by the U.S. Military AFTER Operation Desert Storm (1991) which is not true. The Beretta M92 (M9) was already approved and adopted by 1985.

Well for a period of time both the 1911 and M9 were in use by the U.S. military,therefore just because the M9 was in service does'nt mean it replaced the 1911 by that time, and for awhile soldiers actualy got to choose which weapon they prefered :o [[User:Leadback|Leadback]]
======================================
The Beretta M9 officially replaced the M1911 in 1985. They still used the M1911, but they weren't buying anymore. They simply phased them out over the years. Now there are some units in the US military that still use the M1911. The M9 is really only used by conventional military nowadays. For example, the Navy SEALs don't even use the M9 or M1911 anymore. They have the H&K MK23 Mod 0. Which is a purpose-built USP .45. I've even heard of some SEALs using the Ruger Mk. II. It's a .22 target pistol with an integrated silencer on it.

Soldiers were never given the choice to choose. They were given the M9, but many didn't like it. It was big, many could not shoot it accurately, and lots contested the effectiveness of the 9x19 round. Lots of people I work with were in the military around the time of the switch, were given the M9, hated it, and decided just to keep carrying the M1911. It wasn't until they were given an official order that they were forced to carry the M9. And even there, there were times when they went back to the M1911s the military had stored up. For example, out in the deserts. The magazines the military bought were junk, got sand in them, and jammed. The M1911 functioned perfectly. Same thing is happening over there now.

wrong. Special Operations soldiers are given their choice of a sidearm( and assault rifle). 1stSFOD-D has been using 1911s since foundation. infact Larry Vickers (Nighthawk Customs) has worked very closely with Delta Force. Nighthawk 1911s are being used by Delta. 2- the Seals in Vietnam started out with the Ruger Mk II Suppressed. and know one still used the HK MK23. it was fazed out years ago because of how bulky it is. SEALs use the Sig Sauer P226 or USPs. but that is still a generalization. because all SOF have a choice in sidearm [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:20, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==Para-Ordance==
Shouldnt these guns get their own page? Sure they are a 1911 varients, but their made by a totally different company.[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]] 00:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, but they're 1911 variants. This is the M1911 pistol series page, and they are 1911s. That's why they are on here. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::I would prefer the Para Ordnance series of pistols have their own page due PRIMARILY to the fact that the Paras have a whole slew of different calibers that other M1911 makes and models don't have [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

What calibers does para have that other 1911 manufactures do not have?--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:22, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

== The M in the page title ==

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the M in the page title incorrect? These are Colt 1911s (or 1911a1s, etc.), not Colt M1911s, unless referred to by US military nomenclature, just the same way that a Beretta 92f is an M9 only to the US Army and a SIG Sauer P228 is an M11 only in USAF terms. Just because it's the model of 1911 doesn't make it an M1911, any more than a '67 Shelby GT500 is an M67 Shelby GT500.[[User:YourMessageHere|YourMessageHere]] 08:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
::No. The Colt pistol was formally adopted by the Army on March 29, 1911, thus gaining its designation, M1911 (Model of 1911). Only examples or prototypes prior to the year 1911 would NOT have the M designation (which is extremely rare). Between the years of 1907 and 1910 the Colt pistol was constantly being modified and re-designed to win the Army's trials for adoption of a new handgun. The gun was only mass produced AFTER winning the Army's pistol trials. The Beretta 92FS was already famous world wide and was commercially available as the 92F/FS for YEARS before the Army adopted it. Every 1911 design came AFTER the M1911 (aka Model of 1911) so it is the correct nomenclature. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Using "1911" to refer to any and all pistols based on the M1911 design has only been popular for about fifteen years. Prior to that, the vast majority of such pistols were Colts, and were usually called "Colt .45s", even if they were pistols made by wartime contractors like Remington Rand. Those commercial guns that weren't made by Colt, as made by Vega, Randall, Federal Ordnance, Essex, etc., were called "clones", as they were generally close copies of the Colt. When makers started adding previously "custom" features to production-line guns, and branching into areas that Colt hadn't, a new name was needed, and "1911" became popular. The problem that I have with the various names on the site is the mixing of military and commercial designations; a gun cannot be a "M1911A1 Government Model", as M1911A1 is a military designation, and Government Model is what Colt has always called the civilian version of the "M" military pistols. Colt has made M1911s (1912-circa 1924), M1911A1s (circa 1926-1945), and Government Models (1912-date), but you can't mix or combine those names without confusing the issue.

==Caliber question==
I thought I would ask permission before making this change considering how important this article is: in the specifications category the caliber is listed solely as .45 ACP. I was wondering whether or not that should be changed to include .380 ACP, .38 Super, 9mm, and .40 S&W?
:-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

No, since the ORIGINAL Colt M1911 is .45 ACP Caliber, it should stay like that, since copies of the M1911 maybe have different calibers those should be put on the "copy" section

Agreed --[[PunisherDave]]

==M1991 Series==
I was wondering: what exactly is the difference between the 1911 series and the 1991 series? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 17:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Colt introduced (announced) the M1991A1 in 1991 as a sort of economy version of the Government Model, resembling the military M1911A1, and with the serial numbers picking up where the military gun left off after WWII. The gun was made in that form until about 2003, at which time the finish was changed to polished blue rather than matte blue, and the black rubber grips replaced with checkered wood.
:I heard a guy explain on youtube that 1991 got "extra safety feature" which blocked firing pin movement entirely when trigger was not pressed; allegedly this modification appeared after a incident involving police officer accidentally killing suspect while snapping him with the gun. However, this modification somehow managed to eject firing pin from the slide during decocking so only few people liked it --[[User:Cover72|Cover72]] 21:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

==Terminator 2==
It was my understanding that the 1911 used in the film was a custom Colt frame with a fitted Detonic slide. Was it a combatmaster slide? [[Special:Contributions/65.29.239.251|65.29.239.251]] 09:33, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== blank firers / K911 ==

I've added/moved blank firing Kimar 911 to the bottom of page as told by MoviePropMaster2008 ''("Non-firing replicas of the M1911 belong on the bottom of the M1911 page. Thanks.")'' 
But I wonder, shouldn't there be an entire sub-category of blank firers (with K911 being sub-section of this) in order to distinguish blanks from the real ones? It ''might'' look confusing this way. And also, I made multiple photos of K911 for what I thought would be it's page here including disassembled weapon photo, so perhaps these unused ones might be deleted? --[[User:Cover72|Cover72]] 21:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

==Strayer Voigt Infinity ==
This gun is using a frame from STI, they call that frame the 2011, it's double stacked. And is made from steel and polymer.

:are Strayer Voigt Infinity custom built guns? or just have alot of models? Rex095

The modular frames look exactly like those used by STI. http://www.sviguns.com
Don't know if they collaborate or something. They (SVI) have more optional grips than STI.

Both companies reside in Texas.
::Read up: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc]

Does anyone know the mag cap for a Strayer Voigt Infinity in 45acp? - captain snikt

==Police service pistols==

Before the 90s were American Police ever issued the M1911, or were they're only given to the FBI and SWAT team?

- Some regular state/county/municipal departments might have used a 1911 as a standard duty-weapon before semiautos came into heavy use following the eighties, but I imagine that's a very low number. I certainly don't know of any specific departments myself offhand. Not that many departments use 'em much today. As a 1911 generally was considered a large pistol with a fairly powerful round it wasn't considered easy to use and handle by regular officers. Same general reason why departments in older times stuck with .38s over .357s - The .357 was generally considered too powerful for standard-duty officers. As such, most police departments used 9mms when they first went to automatics in the eighties as there were few semiauto calibers with lower recoil impulse and power at the time than .45ACP.

Some other police units might have used 1911s when it suited them - Homicide detectives in our county's police dept. carried 1911 type pistols, though I don't think that was the county's standard sidearm for uniformed officers. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:04, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

:There's another reason, besides caliber, that the 1911 wouldn't have been too popular in the old days - it's a single-action. Before DA-only became more acceptable (i.e. Glocks), most LE departments preferred handguns that were SA/DA. Almost all police revolvers used prior to the 1980s, like the S&W Model 15 and 19, or the Colt Python, were single- or double-action. This bias continued into the 1980s when a lot of departments started adopting the Beretta 92F and the 3rd Generation Smith & Wesson autos. Now that Glocks have been around long enough, DA-only is finally becoming the standard. But SA-only is pretty much a no-go to any LE agency, and that's the way it was even before the 1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:30, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Isn't Glocks SA-only? The firing pin is cocked by cambering a round?

Would a Smith and Wesson Model 39 or 639 or Colt Commander be more acceptable for police use back then?

- To MT, that's a good point as well. SA weapons do require a lot of training and familiarity to operate effectively and safely, and as such, again, weren't considered practical for regular police officers either. Very good to point out. If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the main reasons why the 1911 fell out of favor in the Armed Forces as well - the fact they required extensive training and familiarity to use and carry safely. DA weapons are easier to train and operate with. Very true.

As for the Glock question, no, Glocks are actually DA only.

As for actions - In a Single-Action (SA) firearm, the hammer must be manually cocked to a firing position prior to pulling the trigger. Just like revolvers of the old west. Double action firearms will both cock and release the hammer when the trigger is pulled. SA/DA firearms use double-action by default, but feature an externally accessible hammer to allow single-action style firing (by cocking the hammer back and then pulling the trigger). Modern revolvers are perhaps the simplest examples of this.

DAO (Double-Action-Only) firearms only fire by double-action as they don't have an accessible hammer for single-action cocking. Such as Glock and various other semiauto pistols.

So if you have empty casing in the chamber, an pull the trigger several times, you would hear a loud click every time because the firing pin would be cocked every time? That's what happens in a DAO gun. If not, it's a SAO.

And on the last question, yes the Smith 39/59 pistols were used by police departments back then. Illinois State Police used the 59 back in the 60s/70s if I remember my Jane's Gun Recognition book correctly. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:07, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Correction, Glocks are not DAO. They fire from a half-cocked position. When you dry fire the gun, the hammer falls and must be recocked by racking the slide, it does not cock by double action springs. That's why the have a slightly heavy trigger pull, they are half cocked, and are brought to full cock and dropped by pulling the trigger. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::: Bah, how did I miss that.. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:05, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

i thought glocks were striker-fired?

I think I read that Tacoma, WA police carry 1911s as standard issue service weapons.

I read on another forum that the LAPD authorises 1911 varients to officers, however they have to go through an intense training program to be authorised for it and they have to re-qualify ever few months too. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:30, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

Yes. A Glock is a "striker-fired" weapon so technically it is not either double action or single action because a glock doesnt have a hammer but instead releases the firing pin inside the slide. However if you were going to have to compare it, Single Action would be the closest term. Because the firing pin is "cocked" when the slide is racked and then the trigger only releases it and firing the round. Additionally a Glock does not qualify as a double action because it in no way cocks anything with the trigger. The trigger on a Glock can not be pulled again without cycling the weapon, whereas on a gun that is a double action the trigger can be pulled and the hammer actuated multiple times without cycling the weapon. -[[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

==Versus modern pistols==

One thing I've noticed about this pistol is that almost everyone loves it, as though it were the best, most versatile handgun ever made. But really, what makes this thing, almost 100 years old now, any better than any modern pistols? Really, modern pistols can fire the same rounds, bigger clips, better design, picatinny rails, etc.--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 21:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Familiarity, accuracy, ease of getting parts, feel, simplicity (yes I know there are designs that are simpler, but for what this pistol is, it is simple), many different makes and models of the 1911, modularity, traditionalism. There are many makes and models of the 1911 style that have the same features as many modern "wonder guns". Want more ammo? Get a Para Ord P14, ditto for DA, and DA/SA. Want a 9mm/ 10mm/ etc? there are many types of 1911 platform pistols ranging from .22lr to .44 Magnum. A quote I heard about the 1911 a few years ago is "It's like a '32 Ford Hotrod, its cheap, reliable, powerful, fun, and is easy to make it your own. Just don't think you'll get much mileage out of a tank of gas." Now tell me can you put custom grips, barrels, sights, slides, frames, triggers, hammers, finishes, safeties, slide releases magazines, etc etc etc on a Glock, XD, SIG, Beretta, etc? Maby a few of those, but at what price, and can you do it all? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 08:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

: ''Really, modern pistols can fire the same rounds, bigger clips, better design, picatinny rails, etc.''

- Funny, several pistols I can think of that fit that criteria are little more than updated 1911 pistols. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:08, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

"bigger clips"
: Fail. I believe you meant Magazines. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
ya Unless your talkin about a Mauser broomhandle (which you're not) I would prefer if you said magazine instead of clip

::Actually, that's another thing I'm questioning. Really, what is the difference between the detaachable box magazines and clips? I mean, clips hold bullets for easy loading, right? SO wouldn't modern detachable magazines be classified as clips too?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 20:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Simplest way I can put this - a clip loads a magazine. The magazine is what the gun feeds from - NOT THE CLIP. It just so happens that on some guns, the magazine is affixed to the weapon (the M1 Garand and the Mauser, for example). Thus, users have to use clips to reload them. On, say, a M1911 or an M16, the magazine falls out, thus allowing the user to swap in a new one when needed. A magazine could hold a clip, if so designed...but that particular road is one-way only. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 20:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

::The "clip vs. magazine" distinction is something that really needs to be clarified, and one of the reasons why I asked for the "general information" section in the first place. Hopefully someone can make a good article there showing the various type of bullet clips and why they should not be confused with magazines. By the way, revolvers when not loaded manually use bullet clips. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 05:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

considering that this page is dedicated to the 1911 which is generally made in .45 does anyone else find it somewhat stupid that our military and most police departments are using handguns that have been known for their lack of stopping power. there are better handguns out there that hold a generous amount of .45 ammunition anyway. for example the Nighthawk FLX holds 12-14. the HK USP/HK45, and the Infinity handgun line are double stacked. and even if most .45s hold 7-10 isnt that enough in most scenarios. 7 .45 slugs does the work of at least 20. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:26, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Its the same reason that police used the .38 Special for so many years even after the .357 came out. Politics, logistics, ability to handle the round, etc etc... -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:30, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:With regard to caliber, police need rounds that can penetrate car bodies, doors, walls, etc. .45 rounds are not known for penetration. Also, while the .45 round is more effective against soft tissue than 9mm and .40 S&W rounds, anyone who tries to claim that 7 .45 rounds can do the work of 20 9mm or .40 rounds is completely dillusional. Watch ballistic test videos. A .45 slug entering the body does more damage than a 9mm round entering the body. If you try to claim that one .45 wound is more damaging than 2 9mm wounds with any decent grouping than you clearly have no understanding of physics or human anatomy.

But the fact remains with a 9mm you dont want him dead in the half hour it will take for him to bleed out. you want him dead NOW. with the .45 hes going to feel it. he aint gunna get back up. with the 9mm he might just keep firing.
:Depending on shot placement. A 9mm slug to the heart or any of the major arteries surrounding it will cause death within several seconds. The same is true of a shot to most areas of the skull. .45 does have increased lethality over 9mm, but that degree of superiority has been greatly exaggerated.

Yeah but a 9mm can pass through a person and keep going, a .45 doesn't. I would imagine you wouldn't want those two 9mm rounds going through a person and hitting an innocent bystander. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:28, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

It all really comes down to preference. Honestly a body shot with any round is not guaranteed to kill or stop anyone. The only thing guaranteed to immediately incapacitate someone is to severing the brain from the rest of the body. Recoil is also a big factor. If you cant shoot it it doesnt matter what you carry. People and police departments have to find the weapon that will work best for them. Personally I like the .45 and I own a 1911. The most important feature on the 1911 for me is its thinness with the single stack mag. Honestly I think my Sig 229 .40 kicks more violently and is harder to shoot than my .45. I know a lot of people who do not like the .45 and much prefer their 9mm because they are better with it. -[[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

Modern 9mm JHP and .45 ACP JHP in ballestic gel create near equal wounds. I can post reference links if anyone wants them. The whole thing about magazine capacity isn't really a problem as 99% of the time, only three shots are fired at most. Even with police, most of the time, no more than 3 rounds are fired.

Carry what guns suits you best, whether its a .22LR or its a .45 ACP. Once I turn 21, I plan on getting a SIG 1911 with a 4" barrel in .45 ACP but for the time being, I have to stick with my XD40.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:01, 11 October 2011 (CDT)

==Variants NOT listed with any film/TV/game appearances==

- I've taken it upon myself to remove several listed variants that had no list of anything that they've appeared in. Guns posted that didn't say they were in anything - Not one movie, TV show episode, video game, nothing. A couple of which I don't think have appeared on anything and seem to have been put up just for the hell of it.

Now I know we have a lot of 1911 variants on the page, but the page is not intended to show/describe ''every'' variant of 1911 ever made, but only those ''that have actually appeared in something'', as quoted by some of the admins. I just find it a bit annoying to have to scroll down the page and see numerous 1911 pistols that have nothing listed under them (Again, with some looking like they were just added for the sake of being there), and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Anyway, clearing said sections out now. If it seems like an unusual or otherwise noteworthy variant, I'll add it to the 'additional variants' section below. Bottom-line, if it ain't actually been in anything, ''don't add it'', no matter how cool it is or whatever. If it has been in something, then next time, don't half-ass - If you're going to bother with the effort of putting it up in the first place, do it 100% and say what it's appeared in. Thanks. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:18, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

==Kimber==
in the Kimber Warrior section it is listed as "Warrior II", which is wrong, the Warrior is built to full military specs and never got the "II" desinated saftey system...so it is just a Warrior because kimber only puts the II on the models they put their special saftey on.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==Controversy igniter==
I am fully aware that what I am about to say will probably ignite the greatest firestorm of controversy this site has seen in a while. I have fired several 1911 pistols and found them to be a good, solid design. That said, it doesn’t change the fact that I think this is undoubtedly the most overrated firearm in history. Throughout the entire gun community there is the consensus that this is the absolute greatest thing ever conceived by the mind of man and anyone who says anything different is a blasphemer. Again, I am not saying it is a bad pistol, I just don’t think it is best (I won’t say what my top choice is for fear of causing even more indignation to come my way). Though even if it were the undisputed best pistol design around, I still don’t think it would be so significantly greater than other designs as to warrant being the object of the worship and masturbatory fantasies of every gun enthusiast in the world as it currently is. That’s my two cents, I await the fallout.

:I smell a troll.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 17:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I'd say he's not because he seems to explain his point. At least his reasoning isn't 'this gun sukzz' [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:My main reasoning is that the weapons are predominately single action only, which necessitates that they either be carried condition three (which makes the pistol slow to bring into action), or condition one (which many consider unsafe). The double/single action and double action only systems have become omnipresent in most modern combat pistols for good reason. Additionally, while a generally reliable design, many other pistols have surpassed 1911 models in ruggedness and reliability. Another thing that I find odd is the vast variety of weapons that are claimed to be “1911s.” For instance, I have seen subcompact, double action only, double-column “1911s” in many calibers other than .45acp. At this point the only common feature between these weapons and the original Colt 1911 design are a loose aesthetic resemblance. The internal mechanisms maybe similar as well, but many other pistols share a far greater functional similarity to 1911s yet do not bear the moniker. At what point does a gun cease being a “1911” and become something simply trying to cash in on a famous name sake?

It is human nature to emulate successful designs in the hopes of getting a piece of that pie, especially in the modern business world. Less-refined terms for this behaviour include "jumping on the bandwagon" or "riding a gravy train." It's nothing new now in the firearms industry, what with all the AR-15 variants, Glock knock-offs, and (of course) countless "1911-type" pistols around. What defines a "1911-type" pistol is really matter of personal preference.

I would, however, agree that it's foolish to fetishize a type of firearm or a firearms manufacturer just because of its track record or Public Relations budget. There is no such thing as the "perfect" weapon in the real world--every design involves tradeoffs, and that's even before you include the "human factor." Designs can always be improved. What matters most is what you can use the most effectively in a consistent manner. And if you can't, then you ought to get yourself another weapon or train more.

Speaking of "best pistol ever," I remember how H&K tried to label their 4.6x30mm pistol as "the Ultimate Combat Pistol," but it got unceremoniously cancelled, because of "inadequate ballistics in a handgun format." So much for "Ultimate Combat Pistol"--now it joins the legions of "Useless Cancelled Pistols" that came before it. Perhaps it could have had a chance if it were a machine pistol instead, dubbed the "MP7 UltraComPact," in essence an MP7 PDW in handgun format. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:34, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:What I would like to know is what is it about the 1911 that supposedly makes it the best. I've heard people say it is the greatest pistol ever for more than a decade yet never explain what ''specific'' features or advantages it has that make it so good.

You should head on over to the forum and ask that question: "What makes the M1911 pistol so great compared to everything else, and when does an M1911 stop being one and start being a pistol just pretending to be one?" I'm sure there are more people there who could answer your questions better than what you could get here. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

What makes the 1911 the "best"? There are many reasons for the following it has. I am of course referring to the original 1911A1 model, not the double stack nor double action variants. For one, the single action trigger is extremely easy to train with and use by a lot of people. Second, it has redundant safety systems in place. Even with the manual safety off, it will not fire unless the grip safety is fully pressed, though this safety system is seen by a few as a con of the design. Third, it utilized a single stack design. That coupled with the angle of the grip is a very comfortable for a majority of the people. The degree of the grip angle was chosen because, for a lot of people, it is a natural point meaning that one could close ones eyes and bring the pistol up and have it pointing directly at the target. Fourth, it fired the .45 ACP. The .45ACP is a proven manstopper especially when compared to the other rounds utilized at the time of its adoption and until the development of reliable hollow point designs. Lastly, I would argue that compared to many other designs, such as the Mauser C96, Luger,etc..., the 1911 was easily field strip as the pieces of the pistol were designed to aid in the stripping down of the firearm. Compared to todays plethora of firearms, the 1911 is no longer the only pistol to chamber effective rounds or reliability. Why is it still popular then? Because some people still favor the 1911 design. Overrated, I don't think so. There is a reason why it is still chosen over other designs. Is it the end-all-be-all of pistol design? No, I would say it isn't. Anyway, from everything I've read, personal experience, and research that is what I have come up with. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 21:15, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:Everything you have described establishes that the gun is a good design, perhaps the best gun around when it first came out, but does not explain it's enduring following. The grip may be confortable for many people, but that is far too subjective to explain why so many people (with so many different hand sizes) still favor this gun. It's single stack magazine make it a confortable target and practical concealed carry weapon, but the limited capacity it offers can be a death trap in a combat weapon (which many still claim the 1911 is the quintessential example of). The .45 ACP is a great round against soft targets, but does not offer very good penetration or long distance acuracy. And with the isistance on reliable "Soldier Proof" weapons in most of today's militaries, many modern pistols are more reliable and easier to strip than the original 1911s. I don't deny that the 1911 was most likely the best pistol in the world when it came out and for a few decades after, but I don't think it still warrents that praise anymore, yet almost every gun Television show, magazine, website, etc. seems to constantly proclaim its supremacy.

To answer your first point. The single stack, thin handgrip is easily usable by people of differing handtypes. You say its subjective but isn't how something feels in someones hand subjective? For example, the M9/Beretta 92FS has a thick grip. Bigger hands have no problem with the grip but smaller hands do. The slim 1911 grip can be used by big hands or little hands. The grip angle is something else that many people find comfortable. You second point that you made was the single stack "death trap". You say that the single stack is a liability. But capacity isn't everything. 7+ rounds of .45 ACP is good. The .45ACP has a well known reputation for one shot stops. The 9mm of the Beretta 92 or Glock 17 does not have that reputation. As for the .45ACP, it is not meant to penetrate body armor, neither is the standard 9mm, but it is accurate over long distances. There are very few pistol rounds that are meant to penetrate body armor of vehicle armor, which is what I think that you are getting at. If you draw a pistol in a combat zone, you are already in deep trouble or in a position where a high capacity is not needed, i.e. MP's. Anyway, a pistol is not meant to be accurate at long distances so the point is moot. As for the "Soldier Proof" weapons, that is just a cheap way out of training soldiers correctly, as they did with the A2 model of the M16. A milspec 1911 is just as reliable as newer designs. One such argument is that the 1911 was only tested for 6000 rounds with no failure before cleaning while Glock for example is tested at 30,000 rounds. What soldier won't clean his sidearm after 6000 rounds? What battle involves firing 6000 rounds out of a pistol? If you can't see why the 1911 design is praised and still being used then I can't help any further. The 1911 design has many good points that apparently many people still find better than other designs, and many still find the 1911 a proven and effective design.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 22:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:Apparently I wasn't clear when I rebutted you last time. The single stack is confortable for people with small hands yes. However, people with larger hands, and even some small handed people, have no problem with thicker grips and so the capacity limiting single stack serves no purpose. The grip angle is a completely subjective feature and so it is imposible to argue that one style is better than another. What matters more is simply what one is used to. You are right that 7-9 rounds of ammunition and 6000 rounds before cleaning is more than adequate for most applications, however my point wasn't that the 1911 is bad (it is a good weapon) but simply that there are better guns out their. 7 or 8 rounds may be enough for most encounters, but having 12-17 rounds and being able to fire 30,000+ rounds before cleaning is an advantage, whether or not one will utalize those features often. Also, when I referenced penetration I had things like doors, walls, and car bodies in mind, not armor. The .38 Super cartridge was specifically developed because the .45 could not penetrate car bodies effectively. Your previous post all focuses on arguing that the 1911 is an ''adequate'' combat pistol which I completely agree with. My whole point is that the features you mentioned ''do not make it the best pistol around.'' When I first began this conversation I stated that the 1911 is not a bad gun, simply that with all the pistol designs that have emerged in the past century it is no longer the greatest pistol in the world, yet nearly everyone in the gun community (yourself clearly included) still claim it is for no other reason than people like its grip (which is subjective), its caliber (which is used in many much modern modern firearms), and its history (which can easily make it a favorite gun but can not be used as justification for it being the best).

You were arguing the design flaws but it is the design that is one of the big reasons it has such a following. Since you are arguing one view against the other. Why a lot of people think that it is the best. The design is one reason, history is another, the round it fires is yet another reason. I actually don't think it is the best I was merely stating the reasons that it is popular and why people say it is the best. I like the Beretta 92fs for its grip and certain design attributes and the Glock 21sf for different reasons. Would I object to using the 1911 in combat. No. Would I use the Beretta 92fs in combat with FMJ ammo? Not if I didn't have to. With HP ammo, I wouldn't hesitate to use the Beretta. But even your view of other designs being better is subjective. If a pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc...is reliable and fires a moderately effective round then it is a good design. What makes it the best is subjective as far as it goes. What one pistol may be best at is what makes it worst at something else. There is no way to objectively define the "best" just what is better than something else.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 00:17, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. I don't have any gun in mind that I think is indisputably better than all others. The features I pointed out I did so to demonstrate that in certain aspects the 1911 is inferior to other disigns, not that said other designs are the perfect weapon. Every design is a give and take of different features. Because of this, my main complaint was a pervaisive belief that the 1911 is unquestioningly the greatest gun ever (I have heard that phrase Verbatim in many issues of Guns & Ammo). Is it better in some aspects than double-collumn, double-action 9mm pistols? Yes. Is it better across the board? Absolutly not. I apologize if at any point I have come across as confrontational, it is just that I have heard so many people assert the 1911's complete supremacy so many times that it has really gotten on my nerves and I wanted to know what others thought.

Google "1911"...then google any other gun...now tell me which one has the most varieties...which one has the most after market parts and pieces for the specialist. Which one has the most surplus parts. Its so popular and so famous because if you wanted to you could make one look like no other one or you could make it look like that one in your favorite movie. Not only that but all the diffrent calibers from 45cal to the awesome and unbeatable 10mm. Plus they are sexy as hell. To sum up you can basically have a beautiful, functional, all steel combat pistol in your choice of caliber and its going to feel like a dream in your hands.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:48, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

:The madness of crowds surely knows few bounds--just look at how the various bottled water companies manage to make a killing selling what is essentially tap water, because people will do often do things just because enough other people tell them it's a good idea. Then again, I suppose the "cult following" that some pistol-types have over others is due in part to the following facts:

:*Pistols are rarely if ever primary combat weapons anymore, with the exception of law enforcement.
:*Few people who routinely carry pistols have to regularly use them in gun battles against opponents who are earnestly trying to kill them.

:Therefore there aren't many occasions for most pistol-carriers to test their assumptions in the most revealing field of all--life-or-death situations. So depending on your circumstances you can go a lifetime without ever putting the hype in the harsh light of real return-fire. I'd bet on the M1911-type (the "pure" single-stack .45 ACP M1911s) pistols selling so much mostly because of its hype and history, and that it is, at its heart, a serviceable (though hardly optimal) weapon. Given how many clones there are, however, I really must wonder what would have happened had Colt become the sole copyright holder for this pistol type--would we see more innovation that way, or just countless clones of some other pistol type? Perhaps a more revealing, specific question would be "How does the M1911 platform compare to the Glock platform or CZ-75 platform?" That could work because all three are successful pistol types offered in multiple calibers, including 9x19mm, .45 ACP, and 10mm Auto.

:Bottom line? The "pure" M1911 works, but we can certainly do better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:07, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::Exactly

Ok, well answer me this then. Why if the 1911 is all hype and legend does MEUSOC still issue 1911s? Why does Delta give out a stipend to have an operator buy his own custom 1911? Why does the FBI HRT use 1911s? and LAPD SWAT? and so many other groups that use pistols? The reasons the wonder 9s came into popularity are lower recoil (marginal), size (marginal) higher capacity (less training in marksmanship), weight (long since gone by the wayside), to match ammo with other NATO countries (Military), and hype/ cool factor (civilian). The 1911 has served admirably (in one capacity or another) with few major changes to the platform for almost 100 years. The Beretta, Glock, CZ-75, etc. have been redesigned and "improved" since they came out just to try and match the 1911s in popularity, reliability, etc.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 17:30, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

:Sure thing. How many of these operators you mentioned fulfill the conditions I mentioned above, namely that they regularly use pistols as their primary combat weapons instead of SMGs/PDWs/Rifles and often engage in gunfights with earnest, aware opponents? And other combat platforms for the .45 ACP won out, such as the Mk. 23 SOCOM pistol which won out over Colt's version. The "improved" Beretta, Glock, CZ-75 you mentioned have done so to fit consumer demand and market competition, but national armed forces aren't that commercial and competitive most of the time because of how many contracts and vested interests are running the show. I simply said that the "Pure" M1911 platform works when used, but it can be improved, otherwise the Mk.23 SOCOM wouldn't have won the OHWS program. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:05, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::A lot of Special Forces don't even use the Mk. 23 due to its bulky and awkward size. Many Navy SEALs opt to use 9mm SIG-Sauer Pistols

H&K won the competition because they strictly adhered to all of the requirements (some of which were asinine), and they put in the best bid. When USSOCOM received the Mk. 23 they got exactly what they asked for but not what they had actually wanted. The SEALS who used it complained about how it was too big, heavy, and its cons outweighed its pros. They tried to pawn them off on the ARMY but no one there would touch them, so most of them went back to H&K. As with all things military, big brass does not listen to the guys who actually have to use the equipment until its too late.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 06:13, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I would like to toss my thoughts into the mix. Being a Brit getting a hold of a real firearm is harder than getting away with stealing the Popes hat, but I am an avid airsofter and I have held and fired many different types of airsoft pistols ranging from HK USPs, to Glocks, to Berettas, to SIGs. But I still go back to my 1911s to which I have 2 (I'm awaiting delivery of a third). I don't have tiny hands but I don't have big bear hands and the 1911 design feels right in my hands. I use a weaver stance and the 1911 is the best pistol for hand placement in that stance, I had an issue with the Beretta that sometimes my thumb could slip onto the slide locking mechinism and prevent slide lock. With Glocks they felt too top heavy for me, maybe it's how the airsoft Glocks are designed and it's not like that on the Real steel. I used a SIG for quite a while as that felt pretty good, but as soon as I picked up a 1911 I needed one. After a little practice I can draw, remove the safety and bring the pistol up to the target in a little under 2 seconds. Why do I like the 1911 so much? It's all about the placement, the safety is right by your thumb so when you draw it you can use one motion to bring the pistol up and deactivate the safety. I found the Beretta to be a bit of a fumbling job deactivating the safety mid draw. Why the 1911 design is still praised isn't down to some cult following, it's down to simple ergonomics, it looks great, the functionality is great, the placement of everything on the pistol is perfect. I saw someone post that they would rather be able to fire 30,000 shots and not have to clean their pistol rather than 6000. I don't know about you but if I only fired off one shot from my pistol in a battle I would still clean it to make sure nothing is going to cause a problem next time. Better to be safe than sorry. --[[User:Cool-breeze|Cool-breeze]] 17:19, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== Ballester-Molina ==

The Ballester-Molina should not be included in the 1911 page. It's not a 1911, only the mags and barrel interchange. Internally it's based on the Star Model A, which has significant differences from the 1911 in terms of lockwork. Unless anyone objects I'm going to create a separate page for it. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

== Link share ==

Hello there,

This is a question for the webmaster/admin here at www.imfdb.org.

Can I use part of the information from this blog post right above if I give a link back to your site?

Thanks,
Daniel

== Dreamworks Animation ==

When are you guys going to add animated films from Dreamworks like Monsters vs. Aliens and Megamind, because they have guns used by police and the military.

Just because there are guns in it doesn't mean it gets a page here. Are they recognisable as real guns, or are they stylised ones? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

They are real guns in the animated films, like in Monsters vs Aliens, the soldiers used some M16 rifles to shoot at the alien, and in Megamind, the police uses rifles and pistols on aiming the villain, who is walking.

OK, I'm going to assume that you haven't read the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page, most notably [[Rules, Standards and Principles#Anime: Rules & Restrictions|this section]]. Read that, then check back. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

But wait, why do we have video game pages then? Firearms in them barely resemble real ones --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok sorry, no big deal, lets not add cartoons yet, because they have to wait.

:@Jackbel. Because in video games you can clearly identify the guns, and no the good ones do not just 'barely resemble real ones.' As a video game person you should know this, unless Australia has weird rules about depicting guns in video games. The reason cartoons are generally not allowed is because unlike anime, most cartoons have a generic silouette of a 'gun' while most animes have enough detail to be able to determine what guns was used. Think [[Ghost in the Shell]] or [[Cowboy Bebop]].--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

==.45 Blanks==

I've read a lot here that .45 blanks used to be unreliable. I was wondering when they started to become a bit more reliable and why they were unreliable? I can't find that anywhere.

I thought it wasn't really the blanks being unreliable so much as it just being easier to blank-convert a 9mm than a .45. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

.45 pistols require more recoil force to cycle their actions than 9mms. Since blank rounds have virtually no recoil, .45s are much harder to convert to use blanks.

Ah right. Is there some new way of converting them now because I've started to notice that in recent years there have been a lot of films using .45 ACP versions of pistols that are also chambered in 9mm. Die Hard 4.0 for example, McClane as a P220 in .45 ACP. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:37, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
:Is it explicitly stated that the prop gun was chambered in .45? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
::''"Is it explicitly stated that the prop gun was chambered in .45"'' We have a pic of the actual screen used gun and is listed as .45 ACP. I think all newer P220s are chambered in .45, only some of the older ones were chambered in 9mm and .38 Super. Also the .45 being unreliable with blanks. I don't think it encompassed all .45 chambered pistols. I think it was only in the 1911 platform. With the 9mm being a much smaller blank and having the large ejection port made for the .45 it was easier to eject them.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:SIGP220R LiveFreeDieHard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SIG-Sauer P220R - .45 ACP. This is the screen used gun in the film and was carried and fired by ''[[Bruce Willis]]''.]]
::: Just checking. Especially after the whole issue with the Glocks. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:54, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Long (and detailed!)story short. For a 1911 to fire blanks reliably you must first drill and tap the barrel for a blank adapter, then taper the barrel hood, then grind off the locking lugs, and remove the barrel linkage. Once that is done, the testing for a reliable adapter and blank combo ensues (you may or may not need to enlarge the ejection port too). I figure its pretty much the same with other pistols...-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

That sounds like a very complex process. I'm assuming if you do that well though the 1911 will cycle blanks as well as 9mm blanks. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:28, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I read an article in a gun magazine a few years back about blanks and it said that it comes down to the casings used. According to the article, blanks are made from rifle brass because it has to be long enough to be crimped and still be long enough to be the length of a real cartridge. The problem with .45 acp ammo is that until recently there was no rifle brass in .45 diameter that could be used for blanks. I remember reading back when "Miami Vice" was on that Timothy La France had brass custom manufactured in .45 for blanks. -- David, 3 December 2010 (well, its the 3rd where I live)

==Laseraim Series III?==

So what is this thing?
[[Image:LaserAimSeriesIIIPistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|LaserAim Series III Pistol - .45 ACP]]
It looks more like a CZ derivative than a 1911 derivative to me... Alot like a mashup of CZ, S&W, Sig, STI, etc..-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 06:51, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
:It draws a little from the S&W series (namely the safety) and CZ-75 (in terms of grip shape), but technically it is a M1911 derivative, they just didn't make many of them.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 07:15, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Used to see these in tv shows during the late 80s. the later model was the first pistol I ever saw with an integral accessory rail on the dust cover, although that was in a catalog. David. 11 December 2010
:::Dust cover? What are you talking about? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
I don't know what else to call it, it is the part of the frame extending in front of the trigger guard. I have seen it, in print referred to as a dust cover. David.

::THIS Laseraim was photographed for the [[Haunted (2002)]] page since it was used in an episode. If you guys read the Haunted (2002) page, for which this IMAGE was originally shot for, the description says: '''Laser Aim was yet another manufacturer who built ported .45 ACP pistol based on the original M1911 design, but incorporating elements of the BHP and the CZ-75 into a new design. The unique feature of the Laser Aim was a hole cut out of the trigger guard ahead of the trigger to mount a laser. Since the production ended for this pistol, smaller lasers with better battery life have been invented. By the late 1990s LaserAim had gone out of business and had sold their patents to AMT. ''' Hope this sheds some light on the piece. It is a new weapon influenced purportedly by M1911, BHP and CZ designs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

Ah, that explains it. Could have saved myself about 2 hrs of google searching if I'd looked up the image uses hah.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:13, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

== MEU(SOC) Pistol... ==
...has been given a new designation, ''M45''. [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/24/m45-close-quarters-combat-pistol/] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

We also need a better image for it, but I can't find one I can't be sure isn't an Airsoft gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:04, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

The big problem is there is no single model that is the M45/ MEUSOC Pistol. The "M-45s" in service are a mix and match of Kimbers, Springfields, Colts, etc. The "M-45" is a set of specs that any pistols built for MEUSOC have to comply with. There are SOME retrofitted M1911A1 pistols that were done by USMC Armorers at Quantico, but they are going to be near impossible to differentiate from the M1911A1 they were built from.
Here's a good thread from AR15.com (dear lord its hard to say that haha) about the M-45 MEUSOC pistol variants.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=86667
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 08:46, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

== More proof of the M1911's greatness ==

According to the news, the M1911 is now the official state gun of Utah! This is kind of cool, since John Browning lived in Utah, and it's just in time for the great .45's centennial anniversary. [[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 21:16, 19 March 2011 (CDT)

== Happy 100th Anniversary to the Colt M1911! ==

Happy 100 years of service M1911! Thank you for providing some of the most nastiest knockdown power available to the armed forces and for providing an eternal name of badassery in motion pictures!

Here's looking forward to 100 years more! --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 15:40, 29 March 2011 (CDT)

My favorite semi-auto is the 1911. I've had affairs with others but I always come back to a good ole Colt .45. I didn't understand why until I did some research and figured out we shared a birthday. Still saving for an anniversary model... [[User:USGIMar29|USGIMar29]] 19:40, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

==9mm 1911s==
I'm not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask but could anyone recommend some good 9mm 1911s? I live in Australia and the maximum calibre you can get without doing competition shooting is .38 or 9mm rounds. --[[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 07:07, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Naming the MEU(SOC) pistol ==

On M1911's page (and correspondingly on pages that list the weapon) it is named "M-45 MEUSOC":

1) While calling it "M-45" wouldn't be incorrect, it should be changed to "M45" in line with other officially adopted names on IMFDB;

2) Using "MEUSOC" in conjunction with "M45" is incorrect. It is either "MEU(SOC) Pistol" or "M45 Close Quarters Battle Pistol"/"M45 Close Quarters Combat Pistol".

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:46, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:Well, then go change it. ^3^ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:59, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

::Will be done right now. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:17, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::I think they are the same pistol. I remember seeing a story about how the MEU(SOC) was reclassified as the M45 Close Quarters Combat Pistol at some point, and have also seen documents that use the term M45 MEUSOC (no brackets). What do you think the differences are between the two? I think there is some confusing as there have been various different versions of the MEU(SOC) pistol built from various off the shelf parts. There are at least 5 versions that I know of, and main fetures are as follows. 1: original version with unflared ejection port and Springfield Armoury logo behind the ejection port. 2: newer slide with flared ejection port and logo in front of the ejection port. 3: front slide serrations. 4: wide slide serrations and Novak sights, with grip safety with "bumb" at the bottom. 5: 4th version with skeleton hammer rather than Commander type hammer. You also have the ICQB which is a Kimber made pistol with a railed frame. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:26, 3 October 2011 (CDT)
::::Sorry, just realised I totally misread your original post. Though you were saying that the MEU(SOC) and M45 were different pistols. However, the term M45 MEUSOC (without brackets) is also correct. [https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=df43476377acd40c0f409faa2ceffc9d&_cview=1] --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:52, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::Notice the presence of comma between M-45 and MEUSOC. That would indicate the listing of different designations for the weapon. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:27, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::I really don't think the comma means that, but to satisfy you, here [http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2010/03-March/19-Mar-2010/FBO-02095403.htm]. To be fair though, I have seen official documents that refer to the M45 being the MEUSOC, Close Quarters Battle or Close Quarters Combat pistol. I think this whole conversation is irrelevant however, as on looking into it, I think the M45 pistol and the MEU(SOC) pistol listed on this page are different weapons, with the M45 being a commercial of the shelf pistol made by either Colt, Sprinfield Armoury or Karl Lippard Designs. This article from the [http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/01/marine-marsoc-pistol-45cal-012511w/ Marine Corps Times] seems to back this up (this time referring to it as the Close Quarter Battle Pistol) stating that the M45 is modelled on the MEU(SOC) but will be a COTS pistol, which is currently being evaluated. For the sake of simplicity, I think the pistol on this page should just be called the MEU(SOC). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:19, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::::MEUSCOC. Wonder what the first "C" stands for?
:::::::It would have been so much simpler if there was website that chronicles the history of MEU(SOC) pistol. Every variant along with pictures and how they were designated (to distinguish them)... Because currently sources are conflicting. In USMC's [http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/ MCB Quantico] section there is an article "[http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/Sentry/storyview.aspx?SID=4913 The Devil Dogs’ workshop]". There it says M45 Close Quarters Battle Pistol is being built by local armorers. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:50, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

One more issue: sources vary on the year of adoption. Some say 1985[http://www.americanspecialops.com/special-ops-weapons/meusoc-pistol.php][http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm], other say 1986[http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/marinefacts/blsoc.htm][http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=16][http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/meusoc.htm]. Maybe change the part to "since the mid-1980s"? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:53, 11 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Caracal F

2011-10-08T05:39:50Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: Created page with "Has this even appeared in anything yet?--~~~~"

Has this even appeared in anything yet?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:39, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-10-04T22:55:29Z

FIVETWOSEVEN: /* HK416 */

== All weapons in BF3 ==

The list below shows all BF3 weapons that are going to be available either SP or MP.

This list is officially announced by EA, but i'm pretty sure there will be more coming.

NOTE: List has been edited to account for new information (eg: Both M16s and only P90TR) and name corrections (eg: DAO-12 to Striker)

Assault Rifles (Assault)
*M16A3 (US)
*AK-74M (RU)
*HK416
*G3A3
*AN-94
*KH2002
*AEK-971
*F2000
*AS VAL
*M16A4

Carbines (Engineer)
*M4A1 (US)
*AKS-74U (RU)
*G36C
*SCAR-H CQC
*A-91
*SG553
*M4

Machine Guns (Support)
*M27 IAR (US)
*RPK-74M (RU)
*M249E2
*M60
*M240
*6P41
*QYJ 88

Sniper Rifles (Recon)
*Mk.11 Mod.0 (US)
*SVD (RU)
*M40A5
*SV98
*M98B
*M82A3 (not in MP)

Battle Rifles (Recon)
*M39 EMR
*SKS

Sub-Machine Guns (All Kit)
*P90TR
*MP7A1
*UMP45
*PDR
*PP2000

Shotguns (All Kit)
*870 MCS
*M1014
*USAS-12
*Saiga 20K
*Striker

Pistols (All Kit)
*M9 (US)
*MP443 (RU)
*G17
*M-45
*MP412
*T44
*93R
*G18

Underbarrels (Assault)
*M320 with HE/Smoke/Buckshot rounds
*M26 MASS with Buckshot/Flechette/Frag/Slug rounds

Rocket Launchers (Engineer)
*Mk.153 SMAW (US)
*RPG-7 (RU)
*FGM-148 Javelin
*FIM-92 Stinger
*SA-18 IGLA
*AT4

( Source: http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/complete-list-of-battlefield-3-weapons/ ) --Zzang1847 23.09.2011 11.07 (PST)

:This is from a Batlefield 3 fansite and not acctualy offical --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 14:38, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::This has been discussed before. While it is technically official since the official gaming news sources are also reporting it, but since there aren't any pictures of 'em you have to wait.--[[User:Nomad175|Nomad175]] 15:55, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

:Pages without pictures or info look ugly. The game's out in less than a month, and the Beta's out in a few days, we can wait, but it does mean we get to know what's in the game anyway, even though it's not on the page :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:20, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::Although there were no pictures, i believe we still can at least put some description and real picture so someone who is actually uploading in-game pictures don't have to worry about putting explanation and finding pictures from the archive, which takes significant amount of time (in terms of AAA games like this).
::P.S) Sorry about this discussion already mentioned before. I thought i could give some help, but perhaps i'm not :( ~ Zzang1847 23.09.2011 8.43 (PST)

:::Building an article is not a race, there is just less than a week for the Beta to roll in, not that much to wait. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:52, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

Looks like it is going to just be Americans, Russians, Generic "Not the Taliban, honest" Middle Eastern Militia and possibly the Iranian army as factions then. Damn. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:28, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

:For SP yeah, but for MP it's been confirmed to be just US and RU. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:46, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

== Faction Specific Weaponry details ==
no need to worry , about faction specific weaponry , reading through some of Alan Kertz earlier posts.He states that the player once leveled up high enough in the class's levels will gain access to the other factions weaponry.

== Gun disparity ==

I have the feeling the M4A1 will be the counterpart to the AKS74U. This is wrong, but every game seems to do it. The M4 has a 14.5 inch barrel and is a standard issue weapon. The AKS74U has an 8.3 inch barrel and is issued to vehicle crews. A better setup would be Mk 18 Mod O (or HK416 D10RS) vs the AKS74U. Also, the M16 and AK74 aren't exactly equal either. Maybe pair up the regular M4A1 or SCAR-L with 14.5 inch barrel (for variety) with the AK74?

Oh and what do you think the US/EU counterparts to the SKS, RPK and AS Val will be? There's no US counterpart cartridge to the 7.62x39 and 9x39 as far as I know.
::There's no val, that's vss

:SKS = Mk.11 = SVD. RPK = M27. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:52, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Its the asval not vss :S.[[User:lukewilliams010]] 12:14 ,19 august 2011

== PKM\PKP operation ==

I've yet to see a game that properly portraits PKM operation with its 2 level feeding system and non-disintegrating belts. Curious if in BF3 they'll get it right. Doubt it though...

== Optic mounts ==

Optic mounts on all russian weapons are wrong. Basically it's an PSO with optic tube cut off and rail slapped instead of it. Then every Russian scope has its original mount removed so it can be fixed on that picatinny rail. They also didn't bother making [http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/photoshooter/1789/i-2863.jpg proper mount] for PKP and just put rail on top of the receiver lid. I was expecting more attention to details in BF3.

Well the Russian army IS starting to use RIS, just look at the AK-9. [http://world.guns.ru/assault/rus/ak-9-e.html] While it does seem a bit sloppy, it can be justified in a way. At least it isn't as bad as that AK-abomination from MW2 and the RPD with rails.

== Beta ==

Does anyone know when the beta is starting? cant wait for it! --[[Special:Contributions/109.78.246.33|109.78.246.33]] 21:34, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Or for that matter, how we can get in on it? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]]

To get into the Battlefield 3 beta, you need to buy specially-marked versions of the recent Medal Of Honor [[User:SeanWolf]]

Ya i got it, do you know when were getting the codes?--[[User:GunGunGun|GunGunGun]] 02:40, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I have no clue.[[User:SeanWolf]]

If you registered your Medal of Honor with your EA-Account, you'll get the invitation and infos, as soon as there is something, so far nothing is known.

Wish I could try the beta [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:15, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

:Not just you, after the videos they releases pretty much everybody is dying to get hands on the game. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 12:05, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Beta will be open to everyone. Those who got MoH, will get in earlier.

== AK-something-something ==

Check that dude in the BG. also what I think *might* be a holster, but I'm probably wrong.

http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf6.jpg

:It's definitely an AK-series rifle, which one I can't be sure of. If I had to guess however, I'd say either an AK-74, AK-74M, or AK-101. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 08:15, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

:It's a dump bag on his hip. At least that's what I think it is. It definitely isn't a holster though, since most drop leg holsters are strapped to your thigh. Why a guy with a belt fed machine gun has a dump bag through is beyond me.--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 09:19, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::If I had to guess, he may have been issued an M4 or M16 and picked up the MG prior to the pic being taken. You can also see some STANAG mag pouches on the front of his vest too. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

:::I Agree with Orca1, I know you can't see from the distance, but the profile of the muzzle looks like one of those 3. As the game is set in 2014, im assuming it's either an AK-74M or AK-101. --[[User:Chablar|Chablar]] 13:45, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

== M240G is M240B ==

The M240G is actually a M240B as seen by gameplay screenshots. You can also identify it's M240B by the heat shield. I guess that inaccuracy in every war game (including new games) will always be. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:44, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

:I knew it was some kind of M240 variant, but since it was being used by a Marine I assumed it was the 240-Golf variant since they typically use that instead of the 240-Bravo. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:26, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Wrong use of the word "anachronistic" there. An anachronism is an object, event, or person portrayed in a chronologically inaccurate time period. The Marines using the M240B is a mistake, no doubt, but it's not an anachronism as the M240B still does technically ''exist'' at the same time beside the Golf model. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

== M16A4? ==

Got these pics off BF3 nation;
http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf1.jpg appears to be some M16 varient which oddly enough doesnt have any rear sights.
http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf5.jpg Another shot of the M16 like weapon (Just going to mention the nice detail on the mag). And hey, new weapon, A COFFEE MUG!!!
--[[User:GunGunGun|GunGunGun]] 15:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

It is an M16A4, the developers probably didn't detailed the weapon enough. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 16:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

:Yeah I noticed this as well. Im guessing they just forgot, The sights are even not there in the gameplay videos. I do hope they change it though, might seen a little silly firing with neither iron sights or optics. --[[User:Chablar|Chablar]] 13:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

in the new 12 min trailer, roughly at the 7min mark when they put surpessive fire on the sniper, is it me or does the guy on the left, with the M16A4 fire full auto?. [[User:Sike|Sike]] 17:20, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

I'm commenting without checking, but remember how fast you can fire the M16A4 and 93R in BC2? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:23, 19 April 2011 (CDT)

== Racking charging handle when reloading after empty ==

A new trailer showed you shooting an M4 and when you are empty, you reload but instead of pressing the bolt release, you charge the handle. I seriously hope this isn't the default reload [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

At the begining of the trailer, it did say that it was pre-alpha code. They'll hopefully have the modeling and other animations fixed by then.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 05:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, cause I'm getting bad flashbacks to games in early 2000 that pulls the charging handle when doing mid mag reloads [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:31, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the M16A2 & M4A1 reloading animations from ''[[Battlefield 2|BF2]]'' had the character use the charging handle instead of the bolt release when reloading, they may have borrowed that. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:58, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

:3D modeling and animation is kinda hard to "borrow" from older engine/file format. I'd guess it's probably "director thinks this looks more dynamic" like [[Black]], or maybe the animator is under heavy influence of games in early 2000 :/ [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 02:43, 12 April 2011 (CDT)

Well I hope they change it to using bolt release because it's wield for someone to do that unless you're clearing a malfunction [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm liking how they now keep track of a round in the chamber and you don't go through the whole reloading animation, maybe this time we'll have proper pistol reloads.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

What's a "proper" pistol reload? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:21, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
: I think he meant that the slide does not lock back when the pistol runs out, like in Medal Of Honor MP. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 20:43, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Also in Bad Company and the second one they did the same thing where the slide didn't lock back. If it's one thing Modern Warfare has done right is the reload animation...well except maybe for the ACR. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:14, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
:There was also a problem with the SPAS-12: the character pump it after the reload even if there was a shell in the chamber. Same in Black Ops. Not to mention that "all pistols were DAO" since the hammers never move. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

About reloads, in last years Metal of Honor, you do a combat reload when your shotgun is empty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:15, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Another nice touch that they put in was that they left the front sight on the M4 even though it has an optical sight. In most games the front sight is either removed completely (like Bad Company 2 or Call of Duty 4) or else it has a flip down front sight (like Modern Warfare 2). Adds a nice level of realism in my opinion.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:29, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

:I always thought removing the front sight from M4/M16 rifles in games was utterly stupid mall ninja BS, not to mention making the gun look ugly as sin. In a real-world situation, if your optic fails and you don't have any iron sights to fall back on, you're basically SOL while the other guy who's never even heard of a red dot sight is still capable of sending rounds your way. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:48, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

::Don't some optics already mount back-up irons (BUS / BUIS) on them? [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:46, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

:Yeah I noticed this too. All BF games seem to get reloads completely wrong. You get the feeling the make you rack the charging handle with a mid mag reload to clear the current round so they don't have to take it into account. As awesome as charging the action yourself, or racking the top slide looks, you just never do it during a normal reload. I do hope they change this yeah, but I doubt they will looking back at the other games. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Battlefield games, but I don't see how its that hard to get weapons right when they hire Ex-military guys to get everything else right. You can even find these things on Google these days. And with COD removing the iron sights on the M16s and M4s they are also removing the gas block. The gun would have to fire one round and then the action be charged manually. I love these games, but some times the ignorance they show towards the things they claim are most important pisses me off a bit.--[[User:Chablar|Chablar]] 14:00, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

::Well, at least they don't go the extra mile and have guns being fired with the safety on, I can think of a couple of games that do that. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 14:08, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

:The use of military and ex-military people are for realistic look of the soldiers, their movements, they communications, and look of ground vehicles and aircraft... But don't forget that it is not that hard to search for photos in the internet of weapons, vehicles, aircraft, uniforms, equipment, etc. and create it in the computer, without using the help of the military guys. As what we see know. BF3 goes for the realistic way, that's right, but it is not realistic in the small details. CoD4:MW, CoD:MW2, CoD:BO, the new MoH, OFP series, ArmA series, and of course the series of BF from BF2 and onwards have so many unrealistic small details that can be fixed easily by using mod tools. The developers doesn't really care if the M4A1 has gas block (CoD) or if you charge the weapon with the charging handle (BF2, BF3), they just want to create a game, realistic or not just the gamers will be happy. It is a bit funny as so many things are so realistic in this game but someone who has good military knowledge will notice right away for the f*** ups. In OFP:RR for example, they only thing that bothers me is that the M16A4 in-game looks like the Canadian C7 rifle. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 18:50, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

don't forget in MW2, fans were commenting that the rear flip up sight on the SCAR was backwards and would back towards the shooter and not forward. IW didn't change it cause they don't care of the little details. Also I like to see a game where they have a random chance to destroy your optic so can you actually can flip up your irons. After the EMP in MW2, they forgot that pretty much all the M4s and SCARS had flip up sights but none of them bothered to flip them up. That'll be the first thing I noticed when I aim or the fact that the ACOG is not electronic and would still work when an EMP hits. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:43, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

*Let's not forget MW2 is the same game which showed the Model 1887 being reloaded by having every cartridge put into the barrel. Would certainly make for an interesting first shot... [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 19:58, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

::In the words of the Demo Man from ''[[Team Fortress 2]]'', "Ka-BOOM!" :P [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 20:18, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

New behind-the-scenes footage reveals that there are partial reload animations --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:16, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

I liked how ''[[Project Reality]]'' completely replaced the M16/M4 reload animation from ''BF2''; the only time the charging handle is messed with is when you first bring the weapon up, and even then it's more of a brass check than a full pull back. The reloading animation has you swap the mags, hit the bolt release, and check the ejection port. Much more realistic reloading animation. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:03, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

What I wish is adding different animation for reloads. If you are in the middle of an intense fire fight, you reload and press the bolt faster and you randomly fumble with your reload cause it happens. Or if the firefight is over, you do a more slow reload. Also if the gun has flip up sights, I want to see an animation where you actually flip those irons up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:02, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:I don't think I'd be happy with the former; same as random jams or giving singleplayer enemies a chance of getting an instakill headshot on the player, it isn't much fun having the game secretly flipping a coin to decide if you get screwed or not. ''Black'' did slower reloads if you weren't being fired at, though; it either sped the whole animation up or skipped the unnecessary wanking around if you were being shot at when you pressed reload. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:50, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

Another thing about leaving the front sight post on the M4s is that the red dot sight is raised and not like in COD4 where it is mounted on the rail. Maybe in real life, having 2 eyes would sort of work, but even then you can still have a front post bother your eye looking at it. It wouldn't be a clear shot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:04, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:The only game I've seen that gets it all right is Crysis 2, and the weapons are all fictional, though they could all easily exist. It's got both reload animations (six actually, because you do them different in Armour or Stealth mode), +1 in the chamber, attachments on your gun based on where they're mounted (one optic, a suppressor or no suppressor, and an underbarrel), believable damages based on calibres, functioning pistol hammers, and pistol slides that lock back when empty and not as part of the reload animation (meaning you can run around and stuff with a locked empty pistol). [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:02, 16 March 2011 (CDT)

== PKM ==

At the left on the bridge an enemy soldier have a Pkm machine gun :
http://www.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Battlefield3_Gogogo.jpg (high resolution sorry) [[User:Arrak|Arrak]]
:PKP

== Disable Vehicles ==

New info at Kotaku and others mentions "Temporarily disabling vehicles". I'm thinking it may be some sort of EMP thing, though, even for BF that's a stretch. What would be preferable, is if for instance... a tank... had several parts that were damageable. Things like treads, optics, engines, etc could be disabled in order to halt a tank. Same goes with tires and stuff like that with other vehicles. This'd be really cool in my opinion, for instance, snipers could damage the optics of a tank with say a .50 BMG round, temporarily of course. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:23, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

== M16 Carry Handle Fix ==

If anybody's seen the EA PWNED BF3 episode, it looks like they've added the carry handle to the M16A4. Two short clips demonstrating the ANT animation system that show the M16A4 with it. Good stuff. Also, did anyone notice how they're making prone realistic? It seems they're having the player's elbows be fixed rotateable spots along with the player's spine being able to bend a certain number of degrees. In order to rotate around, the player has to physically crawl over to view that area. It's easy to see in the animation demos that I referred to, but it's also noticeable on the 12 minute trailer when the Marines are on the rooftop, watch the perspective of the player's weapon and how it moves in relation to the arms. Very cool indeed, because I know balancing prone has always been a problem with BF. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:15, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

== Multiplayer Teaser ==

there is a MP teaser up on www.origin.com, looks like they have gone and screwed the m4 up, (removed front site) [[User:Sike|Sike]] 16:22, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Can't get a good enough look at the gas block to tell. Anywho... I spotted the M16A4, a Mk 46/M249, M9 pistol, the PKM Pencheng, SVD, Mk 11/SR-25 (Not a M110, no full URX rail), AKS-74, and the Grach pistol. All but the SVD and Grach are viewable in the trailer, the AKS-74, SVD, and Grach are visible in the corner where it lists the kills. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:36, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-battlefield-3/714884 pause at 0:19 for the M4, [[User:Sike|Sike]] 16:42, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The AKS-74U screenshot shows what appears to be an enemy carrying two [[RPG-7]] launchers. Can't tell if they have optics or straight iron sights. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:56, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== Who? ==

Who put the Mk 11 as the 9A-91? Travesty, stoked that the Mk 11 is in though. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:30, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74M ==

This photo was posted on battlefields facebook page.

[[File:BF3_IMFDB_(AK-74).JPG]]

It seems that while the US gets an M-4A1 with and without optics, the Russians/PLR get an AK-74M.
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:54, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

This might've just been the loadouts they had for E3, doesn't necessarily confirm faction specific weaponry. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:00, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Is that PSO-1 or the same unidentified sight from Medal of Honor? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:31, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

They modelled receiver lid locking knob wrongly. Should be like [http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/photoshooter/708/i-711.jpg this]

== Physical Warfare Pack ==

New weapons, folks!

[http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com/content.php?4305-Battlefield-3-Limited-Edition-Physical-Warfare-Pack-Available-for-Preorder-in-UK Battlefield 3 Limited Edition: Physical Warfare Pack Available for Preorder in UK]

Time for article update? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:08, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:I see they're calling it the DAO-12 again. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:Type 88 (and it seems the Bipod is an attachment), "DAO-12" lol, with Flechette ammo, aaaaaaaand... a Flash Suppressor for the "SKS Sniper Rifle"!!!! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::"SKS Sniper Rifle?" So we're set in California? Watch out, the bad guys have high-capacity 15-round magazines! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:56, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Isn't the SKS 10 rounds though? I never really liked the look of the SKS, but I've seen a lot of people on this site post about wanting it in a game for once, so it'll make all them happy :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, I'm just talking generally; you know, scary handguns with high-capacity magazines and laws to rid the streets of the scourge of drive-by rifle grenadings and gangland bayonet charges. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::::Haha, yeah, I'm from Canada, and while we don't actually have as strict laws as, say, California, what we have is lots of paperwork and time spent training for licenses, etc. Making them harder to get and needing more knowledge about them is way better than just banning them. I never understood that, oooo, a bayonet mount, oh no! A pistol grip? They'll kill us so much more efficiently now! Criminals use illegally bought weapons that aren't registered. And that guy that comes home to find his wife is cheating on him? He's so mad he'll kill both of them, and they think he won't just get a knife or something? I'm not supporting killing people, but people would still do it even if all the firearms on Earth went away. We were pretty damn good at it for the thousands of years before we invented them... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:36, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::::::Agreed :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:26, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Still no update? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:16, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

'laws to rid the streets of the scourge of drive-by rifle grenadings' - I lol'd --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Why in the hell would they make the SKS a 'Sniper Rifle'? I mean calling the Dragunov a true sniper rifle is pretty much... wrong, I'm okay with it though, but an SKS?
I'll admit I'm not very experienced with the SKS myself, maybe it's a tack driver in disguise, but from what I've heard it's just a little more accurate than your standard AK47 and that's not saying much.... --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 12:56, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:Well there are only going to be semi-auto sniper rifles, so really, there are only DMRs anyway. It's not like it's a sniper class, it's a recon class, so that's not missnamed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:59, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Source? There's no way they'd make all the sniper rifles semi-automatic. We've only seen semi-automatics, yes, but there's no confirmation that they'll -all- be semi-automatic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:09, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:That's what I got out of the Recon description here:
http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2011/06/08/battlefield-3-at-e3-roundup.aspx
Semi-auto and C4. That could just mean default, and you still get bolt-actions and the mortar later, but I really think they mean they removed both of those, to balance the issues with those two things in BC2. Everyone uses Recon, everyone hides with a one hit kill sniper rifle, and everyone calls in their magic mortars from anywhere onto anything. It looks like they're trying to make the Recon kit more of a DMR kit than a true sniper, which is probably better, it fits the squad play better as a DMR and a support gunner do the same job, one with high amounts of precision, the other with high amounts of ammo. On a different note, I'm pretty sure the M4A1 will be in the engineer kit because it has a flashlight and will be the counterpart to the AKS-74U, like the M16A4 and AK-74M. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:36, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

: They meant at the E3 demo, the Recon class has a semi-automatic sniper rifle. At the E3 Demo. Hence the "E3 Roundup" title, it's not dismissing anything, just saying what they saw at E3. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:47, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Finally :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:12, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

== M249 SAW is actually Mk. 46 Mod 0? ==

By looking at the handgurads, I noticed that they are sticking out like the Mk. 46 Mod 0's handguards instead of the flat M249 SAW's heatshield. Also, because the weapon is fitted with M145 ECLAN scope, this could be the same model as in Medal of Honor, only it is rendered differently or something like that to fit Battlefield 3's engine. So, could be? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

: Yep, it's for sure the Mk 46. Though, it's all one nacho. Glad with the weapon choices they're going with so far. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:34, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

Glad to see the M145 MGO, presumably in place of the ACOG. Nice touch. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Yep, there's also some speculation that there'll be multiple types of 4x optics for each weapon, like you could put the Elcan on an M4. But I think it's more likely that each weapon will just have a different model of ACOG-type optic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 08:27, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

:If that's the case, I'm putting the ELCAN on the M16A4, and if there's camo I'm making it green :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:08, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

::Canadian, eh? :P --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Yup ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:12, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

The quality of the screenshot is too low to tell if it's an M249 or a Mark 46. The key difference between the two is that the M249 has a magazine well on the side of the receiver for using M16 mags, but the Mark 46 doesn't. You can't really tell if the SAW in this game has a mag well or not. I also want to point out that the SAW in MoH has a magazine well, which would make it an M249. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:06, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== P90 in IGN preview ==

here

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/117/1172554/battlefield-3-20110606090440594-000.jpg

the magazine looks like its either missing or modeled way to small

source http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/117/1172554p1.html

sorry i dont know how to embed an image [[User:Sike|Sike]] 07:54, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

there's a clear model error...the magazine is lodged inside the weapon at an angle and the charging handles are floating above the magazine in midair.
however, the magazine looks like its of appropriate size and its transparent....would be a nice touch if the bullets inside would actually be visible and move.

May perhaps point to an extended magazines type system, though you'd expect the studio to realise that the P90 feeds from the rear so this wouldn't function --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:09, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

There are Extended Magazines, you can see them in the loadout window in some of the E3 footage on a PKP Pecheneg. But, what the P90 is likely, is just a pre-alpha mess-up. The magazine is there and properly sized, its' just angled downward into the weapon/barrel. It's not married properly to the P90 and is likely just a glitch that will be fixed. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 08:29, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Fair enough, pretty cool that things such as extended magazines have made it into BF3 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:22, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==

I just saw the latest video where the M4A1 had a holo-sight and the gas block was removed. Looks like this will be just another unrealistic game after all. But at least the character pressed the BCRB instead of pulling the charging handle. Damn it, when will a new Rainbow Six game come out?! - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:38, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

It's not a big deal. The M4A1 still kills people and looks great. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:I might be a bit annoying to have every game M4 lose its gas block, but it really doesn't matter THAT much, and it makes the scope view clearer. To say that it will be "just another unrealistic game" because of that is silly, just pretend it has one of those super mini gas blocks, you wouldn't even be able to see it anyway. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:57, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:: The problem is that I don't want to have a clear view because soldiers do not have clear view ALL the time. And there is a nice little thing called "flat-top riser". One might wonder why was it invented.... - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:07, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:But they're ugly and no one uses them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:45, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:Would be cool if removing gas block was optional and made gun bolt-action. Talk about killing with skill :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::Bolt-action sniper rifles will be usable without scopes.

== Some Weapon Spots ==

(Continuously updated) This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwT6x7zEQ8c) shows on the kill-feed that the SVD makes a return for Battlefield 3 at 2:20. At 3:48 you see an enemy in the engineer class holding what appears to be an RPG-7 at 3:48. The kill-feed shows at 4:06 a MP-443 pistol. Clear look at an RPG-7 with on the back of an enemy soldier with the rocket (quite dangerously) inserted at 6:03 and again at 7:23. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 16:32, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

== Team Specific Weapons? ==

Looking at the AKS-74U pictures it looks scarily like that's a US Marine using it on Spetsnaz. As far as I know there'll be unlockables and selectable weapons, but does anyone know if these are team specific or not? I'm personally pretty worried we're going to have a bunch of marines in state of the art gear running around with AK rifles because a bunch of bars say they're the best, or PLR using M4s and 249's, that's as bad, if not worse. --[[User:AmrasCalmacil|AmrasCalmacil]] 17:26, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:That's only in MP, it's the same as Bad Company 2, I never liked being restricted to team weapons im MP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

:The player could've picked the weapon up... We don't know for sure about faction specific loadouts. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 23:54, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::I personally liked the faction specific loadouts in BF2, it was realistic. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:True, to be honest I'd be happy either way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:49, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope they bring back faction specific weapons from Battlefield 2. Medal of Honor made it right at first but then you got the opposing faction's guns and faction-specificness pretty much lost its purpose :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

::But in BF2 if you killed a enemy you can pick up his "kit" and use his weapons... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:08, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Yes, first you had to kill an enemy, then you could pick his stuff (kit). But for Battlefield 3 it should be weapon (more realistic than insta-crossdressing xD ) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:12, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::::Your right, lol. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:25, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Actually in BC2 your character model never changed when you swaped kits, you could have a medic carrying a sniper rifle, or a ghillie guy with an RPG-7. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::::Ah right, I forgot. :\
:::::Lol, you forgot about rocket launcher-wielding snipers ;) Hey, we should put a pic of that under the rocket section or something, you know, just for kicks. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:05, 20 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::lol yeah. The reason I don't remember is because I only played with bots, I only had Dial-up back then. u_u - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:34, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

I hope its not side specific, I always hated that considering how two weapons from the same class where completely different and handled different. Most people would end up using unlocked guns that you can use on either side. If you want a game thats realistic as possible, play Operation Flashpoint.

:Being a fan of Battlefield 2, which featured faction specific weapons, I'm offended someone is saying me to play another game. I might as well say: If you want a game thats unrealistic as possible, play Call of Duty. By the way, in Medal of Honor opposing factions' weapons had identical stats, so that wouldn't be a problem for Battlefield 3 (probably). Also, sign your posts (paragraphs?) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

::Well since OpFor is using a AK-74M and AKS-74U which is some-what comparable to the M16A4 and M4A1, I say the game is gonna be fairly balanced. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
::: If they use weapon balance from MoH then yes. Because in BF2 M16A2 and M4A1 kinda sucked (better use G36E and SCAR-L unlocks, respectively). However AK-101 and AKS-74U were ''nice'' (damage)! Check their stats here: [http://wiki.bf2s.com/weapons/comparison BF2 Weapons Comparison] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

:^^But those games kinda sucked (at least Dragon Rising, Red River looks good). :\ Whatever, I personally like faction specific weapons for my reasons above. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:27, 22 June 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, Dragon Rising didn't suck, it was just buggy and laggy (which can be said about pretty much every other shooter, at least as start) and didn't have weapon customization (which can be said about Battlefield 2). In my opinion it is Red River which sucked, basically being Co-op CoD:MW with Visible Walls of Block being replaced by Invisible Walls of Doom and auto regeneration being replaced by manual healing. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, that's why I said ''kinda'' sucky, lol I heard AAII is much worst, as its severely buggy and lacks weapon animations and others. P.S. I prefer manual healing over mutant regenerating health any day, the only place 3 second regenerating health belongs is a Wolverine game. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
::::To be honest, manual healing in Red River isn't ''that'' much different from auto regeneration: hold "use" key while not getting hit and several seconds later you are good to go. Whether Dragon Rising had an actual Medic class just like Battlefield :) Oh, and it's kinda hard to make complex game without ''a lot'' of technical problems and unfinished things, yes ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, if you want actual realism at this point, you go ArmA 2, not Operation Flashpoint: We-screwed-over-an-already-great-franchise-by-making-a-game-with-casual-gamers-in-mind[[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] 03:06, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
:If you want actual realism at this point, you go to Army. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

::Ugh, But ArmA II had NO weapon animations, that's kinda a big "unfinished thing" when you publish the game! And you Mr. Masterius, your obnoxious, why don't ''you'' go join the Army. We're talking about wanting realistic combat games not what peoples career decisions should be. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:04, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Mr. Wolf, one thing you should realise: until Virtual Reality is created and gone into mass production, games will never, NEVER be trully realistic. Holding gun in your hands =\= Mouse+Keyboard. Also, mine is not obnoxious, mine is very nice and tidy :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

::::And what's so wrong with wanting realism in "Mouse+Keyboard" games? Also I have handled, extensively trained, and fired many REAL firearms, so I'm not just some armchair-commando or a mall-ninja. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

:Eventually FPSs will be the player wearing a mocap suit with a mocap gun, in a mocap room with a floor that moves (like a treadmill) so you can run places. And you will be forced to reload the weapon properly etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::The first steps are made :D [http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/xio-ultimate-fps-virtual-reality-gaming-exoskeleton-prototype-video-21-04-2011/ XIO Gaming VR Simulator Prototype] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:54, 25 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I'd settle for having a decent field of view, right now. They're actually getting narrower rather than wider as the gun attempts to colonise roughly a quarter of the screen. Kinda sad when the guy in ''Doom'' held his pistol in a more sensible way than the guy in ''Crysis 2'' does; the latter seems to be holding it with the base of his right palm rested against his nose. Sure, we're not all going to own an IMAX globe theatre any time soon to have a full 180 degrees or so of vision, but it gets silly when your FOV is ~30 degrees these days when most of the old shooters did 70-90. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:I removed your post? Maybe we both tried to edit at the same time, because it wasn't there when I did, sorry about that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:34, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Lol @ me. Should have known someone was going to say that... Should have added "In a Video game"... [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] 08:00, 25 June 2011 (CDT)
:Right 8) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:51, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

::It's alright, danke. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:31, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

==More Stuff==
Maybe. I didn't see anything listed here that we don't have, but they seem to know what they're talking about. (Near the bottom)
http://enterbf3.com/
[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:17, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

== Barrett MRAD/98B spotted ==

Taken from the "Classes Explained" screenshot...

[http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x80/cowboyw54/Bf3render.jpg]

source:
[http://bf3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bf3-classes.jpg]

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 18:07, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Cool, I'd never heard of that rifle before, looks like a good addition. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like they call Picatinny Railed M16A4 '''M16A2''' ''again'' *facepalm*. Oh, and that's a weird sniper rifle. Don't they have '''M110''' for that?
:P.S. And yeah, same goes for '''DAO-12''' (Armsel Striker, duh!). But I would prefer '''Armsel Protecta''' (it's more modern after all ;) ) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:01, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
::Actually they are calling it '''M-16a2'''... nuff said! - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:14, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
:::If it was called "Blarg Rifle" but had correct reloads, I'd be happy. Where did it say they called it an A2 anyway? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:03, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
::::[http://bf3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bf3-classes.jpg here] [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:50, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::Oh right, well, it might say "M-16a2", but it calls the MRAD a "Mk. II" Sniper Rifle, so, we'll see. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Well I think that the "Mk. II" is the Mk II Mod 0 (SR-25), and that they just threw the text on there because the Mk II will be the default Recon rifle.
Anyways, I think this 99% confirms that it will be in the game, should it be added to the main page?
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:28, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:OH Mk.11, I thought it said Mk.2, and I couldn't figure out what the hell that would be. Yeah, we've seen the SR-25 already in that multiplayer footage, and everything in that video was default. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

So MoH had the M110 when it should have had the Mark 11, but BF3 now has the Mark 11 when it should have the M110 (USMC recently dropped the Mark 11 in favor of the M110)? *Facepalm* [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:27, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:Indeed. Another thing about MoH is that apparently Mark 14 Mod 0 got finished in 2003 and got shipped to Navy SEALs in 2004[http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=377] thus making it as chronologically incorrect as M110. Devs usually tend to skip the details. Still, the crown of ignorance goes to CoD brand. The latest MW3 seems to have customized AK-47 *Major Facepalm* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:39, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

==Notes about in-game ACOG scopes==

I noticed that there seem to be two separate models of ACOG scopes available in the game, according to the screenshots posted in the article. The M4A1 carbine the player character uses in the 'Faultline' trailer is fitted with a camo-painted TA01NSN ACOG(identifiable by the integral iron sights and lack of a fiber-optic strip along the top) while one of the M16A4's shown in first-person view in the article here is equipped with a TA31F ACOG. This is the second FPS game I've seen to do this, the other being ''[[Project Reality]]'' (itself a mod of ''[[Battlefield 2]]'', coincidentally) which has the TA31F and TA31RCO ACOG models available in it. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:44, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:...While in the average FPS, you're lucky if the thing called the ACOG looks like anything in Trijicon's product line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:47, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Making the public in general think every scope is called an ACOG :P Also, in terms of 4x sights, theres the M249s ELCAN, and I'm hoping you can put any optic on anything. One of the DICE guys said there's a crazy amount of optics in BF3. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:26, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Even in COD: Black Ops (a game that takes place in the 60s mind you) they have a scope called a ACOG, even though it's obviously ''not'' a ACOG *rolls eyes*. Game Devs are becoming fails more and more every year. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:08, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Treyarch basically made their own Modern Warfare, with blackjack and hookers. So yeah, forget about proper portray of Cold War. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:41, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Give me the ability to slap the Elcan onto the M240 and I will be happy. Hope what you said about the 'crazy amount of optics' turns out to be true. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:34, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I hope you're not confusing the ELCAN scope with the similar M145 MGO. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 12:05, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::::You are correct, I did mean the MGO. I know the M145 is different, I just though the Elcan name was interchangeable. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:15, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::It would be nice to see a broader array of optics customizations in FPS games. ''Project Reality'' has a pretty good variety, but you have to switch out your entire class loadout in order to change this, and most weapons only have 1 or 2 optics available aside from iron sights (the M4A1 has the widest variety; having available EOTech, M68 Aimpoint, Kimber Mepro, & ITL MARS red dots as well as both TA31F & TA31RCO ACOGs as mentioned above). [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 12:05, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Now, that Project Reality has been mentioned... I hope DICE won't disappoint the CIS players, so that we can kick yer capitalist arses in proper way... j/k lol :P Anyway, here are the articles for those interested: [http://ra.spetsnaz.su/wiki/1P29 for AK-74M] and [http://ra.spetsnaz.su/wiki/PKP for PKP]. And the [http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/sights_for_small_arms/ full catalog]. Oh, and it's been suggested on [http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3/1405448-optics-lots-optics-2.html#post19418223 EA's Forums], so I don't have to do it myself. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:24, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

== Mocap Guns ==
Here's a challenge for everyone; what are the two wire guns standing in for?

2nd Story
http://www.enterbf3.com/

Or if it's off the list after a while:
http://media.enterbf3.com/images/mcnab1.jpg
http://media.enterbf3.com/images/mcnab2.jpg [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:29, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

Cornershot and a Thompson with M203? :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:35, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

:lolz. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:51, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

More seriously, that thing McNab has is definately supposed to be a carbine with an underbarrel accessory, I can't really see what else it could be. The other guy's weapon is a bit more of a mystery; since it doesn't have any kind of projection for a magazine, I'd guess it's something like a Bizon; can't be a P90, these rigs are for capturing hand positions and his would be completely wrong for that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:36, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, actually it does have a magazine, I see a curved MP5-style mag just in front of his finger. So, maybe it's an MP5 with some underbarrel device making the front end all chunky, or one of those MP10 things like in GTAIV. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:40, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

LOL Tommy with M203 :) The one on the right really looks like an M14 EBR to me, the mag, handguard, and barrel, but the other one is weird. It looks like an MP5 pistol grip and mag, with a really bulky front, and a stock that looks familiar, bu I just can't place. :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:09, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

: [http://riflestocks.com/store/product2.html ACE side-folding skeleton stock]? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:48, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, that's the one! Hmm, is there anything in particular that's on, aftermarket or otherwise? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:29, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Quick google gets me mostly AK-pattern weapons. AK, Saiga, Galil, that kind of thing. Couple on MACs, not that it's likely to be one of those. Maybe that's what a MoCap AKS-74U looks like? :s [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:36, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I'd say that's the best guess so far [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:13, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Dunno, such a stock shape reminds me of [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:G36.jpg G36E] which was in Battlefield 2 (with railz instead of optics). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:35, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Not sure about that, you'd have thought if it was G36E the mocap prop would have a rod or something stuck to the end to represent the rest of the barrel like the one McNab has. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:44, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Bah, I am not really into guessing the gun by the mocap. Details of it - OK, but generally it's just a mishmash that can be used for anything provided the grip is adequate xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:51, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

Actually the ACE stock is found on the SPAS 15 as well (which was in Bad Company 1, and Battlefield 2 I think) probably the most likely choice. --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 18:48, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

:I hope it's that, that was the ONLY weapon that didn't come back in BC2 for some reason. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:44, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

::But it returned in [[Battlefield Play4Free#Franchi SPAS-15|Battlefield Play4Free]] so its appearance in BF3 is possible ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 23:20, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 17 unlock spotted ==

... in a promotional shot from Dice about their Battlelog service

[http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/resized-image.ashx/__size/550x599/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/2.jpg]

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 13:02, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

:It was also seen in the EA Pwned video, along with the G3 (mentioned), I forgot to add that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:06, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

::I hope this Glock 17 actually holds... well... 17 rounds. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:24, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, the MP-443 does, so that could work, I'm thinking there's gonna be a Euro faction, with the Glock as the sidearm, and we've also seen the P90. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:17, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Now that reminds me... Battlefield 2: Modern Combat (console version of Battlefield 2) had [[ Battlefield 2: Modern Combat#Glock 17 Pistol|Glock 17]] as Euro Sidearm :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:44, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::It did? Awesome! I was just guessing, but that basically confirms it :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:54, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Here's some leaked gameplay for you guys, skip to 1:44, there's your Glock. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfeOoEDYEt0) Would appear that the sidearms (at least) are not faction specific. Also looks like it holds 18 rounds but I'm assuming this is a '+1' affair. [[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:00, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Melee Animation is good :D Reloading after every bullet isn't :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:48, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Alpha Footage ==

no doubt some of you have heard there is a closed alpha trial going on, and some of you may have watched the leaked footage online. i dont want to post links to these videos just incase its not aloud.
but i can tell you, that the G36c, Glock 17, M27 IAR, SV98, MP7 and M1014 are in. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 08:24, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:Closed Alpha? Any news about Closed Beta for MoH: Limited Edition owners? It should be before Open Beta, shouldn't it? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:41, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:A pretty nice selection of weapons appearing which is good to see, particularly the M27. Now just need someone to spot the L85 and I'll be happy \o/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:19, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::I guess it, Russian counterpart to M27 is going to be RPK-74M :O And British - L86? ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:41, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::You may possibly be right, and I hope you are. If it's in there, first person to deliver the information wins a shiny medal from myself :o --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:48, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::looks like US support starts with the M27, and the Russians start with RPK, british forces arent in the game... --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 13:58, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::The existence of other factions hasn't been denied (to my knowledge) but even so I hope either weapon is available --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:02, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Germans aren't in the game and there's a G36C. We can't rule anything out. Plus, there's always the possibility of DLC. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:31, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::New factions/weapons added via DLC would be grand. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:50, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::Yeah, like they did with Euro Forces Pack for Battlefield 2 :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:37, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:I've yanked the images off the page; as with the MW3 stuff, posting images from leaks is not allowed. Wait until they show up in something official. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:16, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::Why does it even matter? We should post everything about everything we know... :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:36, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Same reason we don't allow pirated or leaked movie footage; using that kind of thing reflects badly on the site. We can wait until these weapons are confirmed in official materials (which they will be in due course, I'm sure), we don't need to go using dubious sources. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:39, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, for a sec it slipped my mind that once the game is out we will have everything :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::And there are still screencaps from leaked version :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:37, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Which ones? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:30, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::The ones added by Gran28 - check page history. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:41, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Oh, I thought where he said "Paris gameplay video" he was talking about a gameplay video released at some show in Paris. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:49, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::The ones that I added was from a gameplay trailer released by DICE yesterday I think.--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 08:04, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Ah, if that's so, then my bad. Kinda hard to separate official ones from current leaks. Better mention that on the talk page :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:28, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== New Official MP Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emwEknzmyRo

can see a M4 with a Eotech and a Acog, and the front site is in when optics are attached.--[[User:Sike|Sike]] 08:32, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Possible return of the NDM-86 ==
I was watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MgQMoPwGwM&feature=related and around 1:13-14, I thought I saw the pattern found on the straight mags that the 7.62mm NATO variant of the NDM-86 uses.
EDIT: Okay at 1:15 at the maximum quality, I could clearly see that magazine is straight. This is no SVD guys, no SVD. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 18:09, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:Good spot, wouldn't have noticed that myself. I wonder why they opted for the NDM-86 instead of the SVD? I assume the SVD is harder to get in Sweden meaning the studio had to find an alternative. Is it still labeled as an SVD within the game? --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:52, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::It is, and it was in MoH. You know, I think MoH was like a super pre-Alpha version of this game, there's and MP7 too, and a few others. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:03, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I hope DICE do a better job on BF3 than they did on MoH, that game was shocking. There's probably some truth in that though :P --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:43, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Well, MoH multi was made by a small team from DICE in 6-7 months, and ALL of DICE has been working on BF3 for, like, 5 years, I'm not worried ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:52, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Fair play to them but you'd have thought issues with the game would have been patched following the game's release. Still, I don't deny that BF3 will be a far better game however I'm sure some of the issues from MoH will poke through. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Well, we can hope the issues that poke through don't include those godawful skyboxes that MoH had. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:26, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::DICE deliberately sabotaged MoH MP 'cause they were focused on BC2... :( But it is said that MoH 2 is being developed solely by DC. And it is rumored that MoH 2 will have Frostbite 2 Engine :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:50, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Would be interesting to see what DC do with the Frostbite 2 engine, I wasn't all that impressed with the single player but taking into account that (as far as I'm aware) MoH was the studio's first game, it was an adequate effort. Was better than the multiplayer at least, in my opinion. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:20, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I've always said that if MoH's MP was the same as it SP, then the MP would be awesome, I have it just for the SP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:35, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Just played some more of SP and I have to say I agree, pretty intense stuff. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:38, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Default Weapons ==
I just noticed that all of the US weapons are Armalites, and all of the Russian weapons are Kalashnikovs, it's cool. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:58, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:Aside from the 'SVD' which isn't a Kalashnikov design, but we'll forgive you as it is outwardly similar. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:16, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::True, but you got the point ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::[http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/sniper/sn18/svd_clones.jpg SVD Clones]. The third one is AK modified to SVD. Ain't Russian guns :P --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:58, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I do like the fact that each faction has it's own starting weaponry, I always liked that about BF2 (though I didn't play it much) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:25, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Agreed :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:58, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== AS Val ==
I can't find the video, but I'll post a link: http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/7447261.page [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:31, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:20, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Sniper Rifles can have iron sights ==
Yup. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:04, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:Hmmm. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:56, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

== M1014 ==
It's hard to tell because of the screwed up animation in the alpha, but you load a round into the chamber first, then the tube. EDIT: This is a good thing, I made sound like it wasn't :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:32, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

== M16A4 ==
It fires semi, burst, AND auto, one of those fancy 360 degree fire selects or something :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:32, 23 July 2011 (CDT)
:problem?

== New Alpha Gameplay ==

In the gameplay, I noticed that the front sights are still present when optics are attached, that M16A4 is now burst-fire and that the US LMG is called M249 in-game. Bipod gameplay was shown too. I also spotted the M-416 at 0:55, maybe the M4A1 equivalent of the enemy forces? [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:45, 24 July 2011 (CDT)

:Okay, yeah, they made it so the front sight is there, but disappears when aiming, the M16 has burst as well as auto (and semi), and the HK416 is an unlock, ONLY the default weapons are faction based, anyone can use unlocks, but the default ones might be usable by anyone later or something though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:42, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::That's still much better than the MW games. Boy, you complain more about games than I do. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:19, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::Defaults faction / unlocks not is how BFs 2 and 2142 worked, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:08, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not complaining, I actually like the front sight disappearing system, if it's not there the gun wouldn't work, but if it was, then having an RDS would give you a better field of view. The M16's fire modes aren't too bad, as long as the weapons have the right ammo count, reload properly, and have +1 I'm happy. Things like the player loading it fancy or whatever are okay. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

== M320 Standalone confirmed ==
This. Search "BF3 Grenade Launcher", and the vid has a G3 with an ACOG too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

== SIG 550 pretty much confirmed by Demize ==
http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/30377608852017152 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:Swiss weapon of choice 8) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== A Few Weapon Vids ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuoU7uBNvP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LILgS-M2xo

Here's most everything in action, and with a few attachments. I love how the description for the M145 mentions the Canadian Army! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:37, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:Looking good so far, spotted some people on my Steam friends list playing the alpha. So jealous. :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:43, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::I'm looking very forward to this game. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:42, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Video Confirms new weapons for the game, as available in alpha build. In the first video we see an MP-7 PDW at 1:14, M1911 pistol at 1:57, RPK light machinegun on killfeed at 3:21, M27 IAR in killfeed at 6:12, M1014 shotgun at 7:34, G3 battlerifle on killfeed at 8:29, G36c assault rifle at 12:15, M320 grenade launcher on killfeed at 13:16. In the 2nd video we see RPK selection and model at 6:07 (usage following). Someone please update main page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:32, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Good of you to find everything, but leaked stuff isn't going on the main page :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:25, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::: awww =(, thanks though.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:39, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Sigh, The M145 uses the M4 reticle over the M249/240 reticle :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:47, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::That's the reticle my (standard version) ELCAN replica has on my airsoft C7A2, do you mean the M145 version is supposed to have a different one? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:40, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::[http://www.dsarms.com/images/ELCM145M4W.gif Elcan M145 Optical Sight for M4 and M249/M240]. Remember people, this is just leaked Alpha and DICE will ''probably'' make changes to the game to make it right... Oh, and RPK :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:53, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Oh I see. And what do you mean, oh and the RPK? What's wrong with it? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:07, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::Has the wrong bipod at the moment, doesn't look like the barrel is long enough to be an RPK either --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:31, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::Well... since it has both synthetic furniture and curved magazine, it is [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/machine/mg15/rpkm.jpg RPKM] (ignore the magazine color). However in-game description mentions that it uses 5.45x39 ammo, which is used in [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/machine/mg16/rpk74_02.jpg RPK-74M] that is actually used by Russian Forces. So the point is, DICE should change the magazine model and rename the weapon to '''RPK-74M''' for Russians. That Militia can use whatever they want. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:36, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::I didn't know that, so the curvature of the magazine in an AK/RPK-style weapon can be used to identify the caliber? DICE have clearly given alpha invites to the wrong people, should have gone to the inhabitants of IMFDB. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:42, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::: :D And yeah. The curve gradation for Kalashnikovs' magazines goes as follows: 5.56 < 5.45 < 7.62, with 7.62 curve being particularly distinguishable ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::::You learn something new everyday, now I can complain that the BF3 RPK is incorrect >:O --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:33, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::I sent Demize a tweet (I made a Twitter accout JUST to send him stuff) that the RPK should be either the RPKM or RPK-74M (as I can't see the mags well enough), and also sent him another one saying the G3 should be the G3A3 :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::::That is dedication to informing the developer their game is wrong, well played. I also sent him a tweet concerning the M145's reticle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:30, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::::Very good :D Two problems I've noticed about '''SVD''': First, as already been noticed, is that in-game model of magazine is straight NATO one instead of curved Russian one; second, is that in-game '''PKS-07''' is using optical PSO-1 based reticle instead of its own magnified reflex reticle like this one: [http://www.newphillysports.com/milsurp/pks07reticle.jpg]. And here information about it: [http://www.gunscollecting.com/english/scopes/pks-07-collimating-sight/]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:24, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::::::Just recieved an invite to the alpha, I am so stoked to try this game out \o/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:44, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::::Sweet! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:56, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 spotted ==

I just watched a video and the 1911 is back. This game's version appears to be the MEU model. I can tell from the slide, sights, and hammer. It appears to be the old model with the Springfield Armory slide. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 23:53, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:I can't see the grips, but it appears to be a stock M1911 with a commander-style hammer (the round one, not the MEU one), a silver 3-hole trigger, and a silver barrel. Oh, after Googleing I found that that IS the original version of the MEU :/ http://www.justpistols.co.uk/meu_001.jpg That's an airsoft gun, but it's EXACTLY the one from BF3. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:35, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Also, the MEU Pistol is currently designated [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/24/m45-close-quarters-combat-pistol/ M45] Pistol ;) So maybe in-game it is some kind of customized M1911 Pistol? :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:36, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== Alpha ==
I just got the invite for the Operation Metro Alpha and Will post info here if I can.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 20:53, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Awesome, that's two of us now :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

::So my impressions of the alpha so far are largely positive, not the biggest fan of the map however. Too many narrow corridors that you have to enter to advance, meaning that the defending team can plonk a SAW there and wipe you out as you enter the meat grinder. The weapons feel nice: Plenty of recoil meaning that burst firing is essential. Definitely an improvement gameplay-wise compared to BC2, which wasn't a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. Looking forward to the beta now! \o/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:46, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Improvement compared to BC2, is obviously. The question is, improvement compared to BF2! :O--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:31, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I can't really comment on whether it's better than BF2 as I haven't really spent much time on it (5 mins max) but it is a fairly solid FPS in it's own right. One thing that has bothered me thus far is 3D spotting, do not like it at all though, it should be changed for minimap spotting. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:46, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Ah, in that case, if you still have BF2, I would recommend you download and install [http://www.realitymod.com/ Project Reality] mod, which focuses on realistic armed forces. There are people who have BF2 solely for it. And, it has British Army! :D [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/B_Uniform.png Their uniform] and [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/B_Weapons.png their weapons] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Yeah and the Canadian Army :D I'll be getting BF2/RM soon. Keep in mind this is one of the smallest map and it's meant to be more infantry focused, they'll be much bigger ones with more vehicles ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:10, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Yup :D [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/C_Uniform.png Their uniform] and [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/C_Weapons.png their weapons] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:49, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::I hope that with more vehicles comes more teammates actually willing to take them out. No one playing engineer was even trying, just using their launchers on each other. Meant to ask if anyone still played BF2 as I was gonna get it in anticipation for 3, should organise some gamz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::I'm trying to get BF2 again, loved that game, can't wait to convert it to PR. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:04, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Needs a bit of polish but what I played of the alpha was a lot of fun, roll on October --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:32, 1 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::Sweet! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::Anyone have any questions about it? I'd be happy to answer them (as best I can) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:27, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

== All Alpha weapons ==

http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/new-battlelog-screenshots-show-weapons-awards/battlelog-weapon-list/ - [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

:I hope, they will make new icons for AR-15 guns. These no-sights ones are just weird. Also, what I've said in "A Few Weapon Vids" --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:21, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

::The in-game ones have carry handles but I'm sure you knew this, I can live with a few slightly inaccurate icons on the Battlelog though. The M27 IAR had no front sight post for some reason in-game, made the Eotech pretty much essential. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:19, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Doesn't it have flip-up sights? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:43, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

::::It does, yes, but the front sight is missing the front sight post. As in, the sights are there, but the post is not. Made aiming quite tricky as you can imagine. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:34, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah, I'm assuming that's been fixed by now [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:15, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::I hope so, was a nightmare. Still, barely used the RPK/IAR once the SAW was unlocked --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 04:44, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Cause the SAW's a real support weapon ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:21, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::::^ This, though the fact that you can change the RPK and IAR to semi-auto was a nice feature --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:30, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Does IAR have better accuracy and SAW better firepower or SAW has ''both''? Because if it is the second one, IAR seems kinda... useless. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:35, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::For sure, the IAR/RPK are definitely more accurate than the SAW, the SAW is quite difficult to use at range without deploying the bipod whereas the other two don't have as much recoil. I assume the lighter support weapons are there for the more mobile, front-line support guy. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:18, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

Pretty sure this legit as another article is saying they're from OXM so should they be moved to the page and not discussion ? [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

== why aren't confirmed weapons named? ==
such as the g3 ,m416 ,m27 iar and many more????

:Can't put leaked stuff on the page, you'd know this if you read the rest of the discussion --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:21, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

::yeah thats why all the weapons used in the alpha were named in an official blog and yet there still not up here , so dont tell me i need to read the discussion.

:::Do forgive me. Link to this blog? If it's legit you're free to edit the page if you wish. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:12, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I second the link request. Also, sign you posts. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:38, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

(TOSSED) RE-posting. You guys should simply look up a bit next time. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 11:18, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:Except that's not official blog. It's fanblog that also [http://bf3blog.com/battlefield-3-weapons/ makes assumptions] and [http://bf3blog.com/2011/07/battlefield-3-50-leaked-alpha-screenshots/ postes leaked stuff]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:55, 4 August 2011 (CDT)
::Looks like I'm tossing that out the window. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 13:20, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::An image which was leaked from the alpha, users of which were under a non-disclosure agreement which means we could get in trouble if we post it up here. Until we get an absolutely official list of weapons (most likely from future trailers and the public beta) the page will stay the same. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

== Setups ==
So what kinda weapons and setups do you guys think you're gonna use?
*Medic - G3 (or other BR) with a scope
*Engineer - M1014 (or other shotty)
*Support - M249 (or other belt fed) with a bipod
*Recon - MP7 (or other SMG/PDW) with a suppressor
*Sidearm - M1911

Obviously details will change as we get more info and after we actually play the game ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:21, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:I'll probably play support mainly, it's what I spent 80% of the alpha doing and it's where I had the most fun. M240 with bipod, optic and flash suppressor will be my class of choice. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:29, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:''Obviously details will change as we get more info and after we actually play the game''
:^ This --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:40, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

== PWNED #7 ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXaFw7aC9GE
A couple things I missed the first time I saw it, there's the M4, M1911, and G17, but also a Desert Eagle and MP5SD2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:17, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

:Desert Eagle? [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigNo NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:48, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::What's up with the Desert Eagle? It's a perfectly good combat pistol *trollface*. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:11, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::: :( --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:22, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::::Developers really need to stop putting large caliber handguns and revolvers in supposedly 'realistic' games, it just feels stupid. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:38, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::''[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0-oinyjsk0 I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?]'' --''Harold Francis "Dirty Harry" Callahan''

:::::[http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/handguns/usa/revolver/1287756474.jpg .357 Magnum Colt Whitetailer], camper's wet dream :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:45, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

:Their rack of guns at 3:06 (presumably airsoft for modelling purposes) contains an M14 and a FAMAS, might be 2 more to expect in the full game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:00, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

::M1911 + M14 = Old School Pack 8) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:48, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::Oops, I only thought to rewatch the range part, totally missed the FAMAS and M14 lol, good catch. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:15, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

== Pre-order Spectact kits ==

[http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/8472426507/2/tumblr_lpes8zstbf1r09ila][http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/8472426507/1/tumblr_lpes8zstbf1r09ila]

Some images of the exclusive Spectact kits you get via pre-order, you'll also notice that the Russian assault class soldier is holding an AEK-971

:Guess American Assault class gets XM8. Both weapons lost their respective trials. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:20, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

You do realise its just art , and probably wont be ingame --[[User:LukeWilliams010|LukeWilliams010]]

:Alright, will wait for confirmation regarding these weapons. Maybe it's just false alarm (and Desert Eagle too). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:49, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

::Nah, the AEK will most likely be in, and the AK-74M will go to the PLR faction. There's nothing official, but there's the AEK (RU) and 74M(PLR), SKS as a sniper (PLR), T-72 tanks (PLR), and MP lines recorded in English, Russian and Farsi, that's confermation enough. I've seen no evidence of the XM8, but who knows, they did say there's 10 times the unlocks as BC2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:30, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Russian Forces clearly used AK-74M on Operation Metro map. The same is expected from final release. As for PLR, there are only silhouettes, and as such it's unclear which AK is used. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:50, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

::::The AEK will probably be a universal unlock for all factions if it is indeed in the final game (which I believe it will be, doubt they'd use a weapon in artwork and not include it in-game) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:01, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

:::There most likely will be no AEK in final game. Those renders showing specact skins are pretty dated.

::::Fair enough, I didn't know that. Not too fussed either way, not a big fan of the weapon. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:09, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

Please no XM8, at least not in the SP. If it's an MP only gun, I could care less whether it's in or not, though. I'm buying this for the SP, which I'm hoping will be at least semi-realistic. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:18, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:I kinda doubt they will put in the XM8, I'd rather see a full-size G36. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:25, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

==M16A3==
Demize99 tweeted that the M16A4 has been renamed to A3. Though we don't know if it still has all three modes, I'm thinking it doesn't. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:49, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

:Hmm. Full Auto M16A4 seems more plausible to me than Picatinny Railed M16A3. Maybe call it M16A5? xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

::Nope, the A3 is actually an A4 with full auto, I thought it was an A2-style for a long time, but looks it up, its hard to find good descriptions, but the A3 and A4 are the same except burst/auto. No one on this site gets that because this site calls every A3-style an A4 with an A2 lower. Why? Because that's what armourers built them with, since they don't have A3s. In games the weapon is whatever it's meant to be because it's not "built" on anything. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:09, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Ah, now that's funny. Turns out to be true[http://www.armyproperty.com/Equipment-Info/M16A3-A4.htm][http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-e.html]. Silly 'mericans couldn't get hold of manual burst firing, Military Command had to enforce it for them :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:21, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

::::Hey, those are the two sites I found! I just couldn't find them again :P Anyway, look at the description on the first site, it's worded very old, saying things like identical to A2, but also same as A4. That's actually the most info I've seen on an A3 in one place, adding to the confusion, since there isn't good info around. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:16, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, Alex is wrong and so are the two websites Masterius linked to. The M16A3 is a full auto A2 (only used by SEALs and Seabees in very limited numbers), NOT a full auto A4. IMFDB policy is to identify a weapon visually, not by what the game calls it. In terms of A3 vs A4, the M16 in this game is intended to be an A4, so that's what it should be called. At least for the moment anyway. If it turns out the devs decide to axe the burst mode, we can classify it a C7A1, but until we know more, it should stay listed as an A4. I'm changing it back. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:11, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

::::Uhm, Modern Firearms is respectable source. If you are claiming that it is not that means you have a better one? And the weapon can't be C7A1 since C7A1 is [http://world.guns.ru/assault/can/diemaco-c7a1-c7a2-c-e.html Model C7FT] (Railed Model 715 itself) and Full Auto M16A4 is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901] (Full Auto Railed Model 705 itself). And there are differences between 705 and 715[http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/variants/]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:25, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:Now I want to know whether Demize99 tweeted about RPK and SVD... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:25, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

::The first A3s had A2 uppers, but were later (and still are) issued with railed uppers, that's where people get confused. A3 = Rail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I do have a better source. It's called Defense Industry Daily [http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m-16-rifle-purchases-04517/]. Additionally, if you take a look at the M16A2 section of the [[M16 rifle series]] page, it says the exact same thing. I also never said MF ''wasn't'' a respectable source, but that doesn't alter the fact that it's wrong in this case. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:25, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

:''Other MIL-STD-1913 rails can be found on the front grips '''et. al.''' of the '''A3s''' and A4s, where they mount useful items like flashlights, laser pointers, grip pods, et. al.''
:There too. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:59, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:'''P.S.''' Besides, why does it feature ''Wikipedia'' in '''Additional Readings'''?

::"Front grip" as in around the barrel, like a Knight's Armament M5 RAS. It has Wikipedia as an additional read because DID's article doesn't feature the M16 rifle's entire life story; Wikipedia does. In fact, why don't you take a look at Wikipedia where it states that the A3 is a full auto A2 and uses DID's article to verify it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:07, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

:::There are a number of different rifles designated as the M16A3 by the US military. The first is what Wikipedia refers to, the Colt Model 646 which is also known as the M16A2E3, which was introduced in small numbers at the same time as the M16A2 and is an A2 with an A1 lower and was only used by the Navy and Coast Guard. Then you have the flat-top Colt Model 901 which was introduced at the same time as the M16A4 (in 1994 I think) which is basically an M16A4 with full auto rather than burst. The following is what the US army website says about the A3 and A4: ""The M-16A3 is identical to the M-16A2 but has a removable carrying handle that is mounted on a Picatinny Rail (for better mounting of optics) and is without burst control. The M-16A4 is identical to the M-16A2 except for the removable carrying handle and Picatinny Rail." I would imagine that for modularity purposes the A3 in this game is the current version (Model 901). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:22, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Wow, thanks, that really clears it up, so we could call the full auto A2 the M16A2E3, and the full auto A4 the M16A3, that makes sure they have different names, right? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Interesting, found [http://compass.seacadets.org/pdf/nrtc/cb1/14234_ch3.pdf information about M16A1 and M16A2E3] on [http://www.seacadets.org/ U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps website]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:31, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::That PDF is actually wrong, as it states that the M16A2E3 is burst fire rather than full auto. Here is the [http://www.scribd.com/doc/29272650/MIL-R-71135-Rifle-5-56MM-M16A2E3-1992 US Army Military Specification] for the M16A2E3 from 1992 (go to page 4, and look at the fire selector section). Although calling the earlier rifle the M16A2E3 takes away the confusion, it can still correctly be called the M16A3 as it was reclassified as this, kind of like how the M16A2 was originally the M16A1E1. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:11, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::True, I guess someone just got lazy and didn't give the flat top version a new name, so the 646 and 901 are BOTH A3s. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:47, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Editors probably made a mistake in ''that'' part because everywhere ''else'' it says automatic fire (right from the beginning). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:19, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

:Heh, and after more searching: [http://www.military-today.com/firearms/m16.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:21, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

::Like I said, the very first A3s had A2 uppers, and after that they had rails. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:17, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Put it this way, the only times it says something about not having a top rail, it doesn't. What I mean is, it always says something really vague like "full auto version of the A2", never mentioning specifics. I have not yet read somewhere that says that the A3 has a fixed carry handle, but have seen plenty that say the opposite. The problem was someone decided a long time ago that this site was for guns that are in movies only, not a gun wiki, so since the A3 is not in any civvie hands, and therefore not in any movies, it shouldn't be mentioned. All "A3"s in movies are A4s with A2 lowers, that is what the armourer used. However with the addition of newer weapons, and therefore newer entries, and the addition of games, where the guns don't really exist and therefore ARE anything, things are being added that never were before. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Mk.18 is only a military weapon, right? That means that, say, in the first Transformers movie Josh Duhamel's Mk.18 wouldn't have been a real Mk.18, but some Civvie M4 with a short barrel and such, made to look exactly the same as one. But that doesn't make it a Mk.18, however it IS listed as such. I may be wrong and it might actually be a Mk.18, but then Canadian C7-series is a better example: NO civvies have them. Period. But it still has an entry, as it is in Reality Mod, among a few others. Now we see the problem with not having an M16A3 entry: there might not be any in civvie hands, but there are some in games, like BF3, but COD4 singleplayer comes to mind as well, and I'm sure there are others. Hmm, I guess what this comes down to is we need an M16A3 listing on the M16 page. All of them should be listed, even if the only info is the name, a sentence about the weapon, and mention that it has never been in anything, otherwise we get stuff like everyone on the site getting false info about a particular weapon, and this happens. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:14, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

::::That ''is'' specific. "Full auto version of the A2" means it's externally identical to the A2, but has fully automatic. I don't see how that's vague. If you've got a credible source saying A3s are "now issued" with flat top uppers, I'd like to see it. But if you look at the pattern of M16 rifle development, it's very likely that such a modification would bear a designation other than A3 (the only two exceptions to this in the platform's history were the Air Force's 11.5" barreled XM177s and when the Army dropped the Model 777 M4 for the Model 920 M4. Josh Duhamal used an M933 in Transformers, not a Mark 18. Mark 18-type carbines with 10.3" or 10.5" barrels can be had by anyone with proper licensing. But the reason we have Mark 18 mock-ups in movies listed as Mark 18s is because, like I already pointed out, it's IMFDB policy to identify the weapon on a visual basis. If it ''looks'' like a Mark 18, we ''call it'' a Mark 18 unless some other way of concretely identifying the weapon (such as an armorer ID) comes along. Your argument about civilian acquisition is a dead end since armorers like MPM are civilians, yet have fully automatic M4s, AK-47s, M60s, and so on in their possession. The only games I've played with full auto M16A4s are CoD4 and MoH, the pages for both of which identify the rifle as an M16''A4''. If you want an A3 category added, either take a look at the [[Talk:M16_rifle_series#Do_well_really_need_to_have_an_.22A2.22_and_.22A3.22_category.3F|M16 rifle talk page to see why it was deleted]] (where MPM himself states that the M16A3 has the same upper receiver as the A2) or come to the forum and state your case as to why said category should be reinstated. But as per IMFDB policy, the M16 on this page should be classified as an A4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:14, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::As soon as my problems with registration are solved, I'll bring this discussion to the light. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::Bah. Is there any other way to contact forum administration other than through the forum? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::Leave a message on [[User:MT2008|MT2008's]] talk page about it. He's an administrator on the forum. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:01, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

== Both M16s ==
Demize confirms multiple M16s! I'm expecting the A3 and A4 obviously [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:05, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:Hmm, that's pretty cool. =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:32, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:Now that's something I would like to take a look at in Beta :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

::He also confirmed not everything's in the Beta, but hopefully these two will be. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:22, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I see very little point in including 2 M16 models, just takes up space that could be filled with something new :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 04:52, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

::::The automatic one will probably be the starting weapon to balance it against another starting weapon, and burst fire one will probably be for everyone to use as an unlock. You see, so that to please everyone :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I gueessssss, suppose they don't have to remodel it or anything either, just change the weapon's code/animations. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:58, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::I think the A4 should be the starter and the A3 should be the unlock, makes much more sense to me. The starter ARs in COD4 were the M16A4 and AK-47 and that was just fine. Or maybe you can modify a base M16 into other variants. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:09, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::I guessed it right: Demize has confirmed that M16A3 will be the default US assault rifle for the Assault kit[http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/102776416898265088] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:00, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Gamescom trailers and official gameplay vids ==
We've got official footage for 2 weapons, one already known (MP-443), and one all-new (SCAR-H CQC with Grippod and Aimpoint optic). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDDfPxF3EFE . In the Co-Op live gameplay from the devs, one of them picks up an unknown pump action shotgun with a 4+1 capacity.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 11:06, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Nice! Wonder if SCAR-L in? Oh, and they give civilian shotguns to military again! *shakes head* Already noticed that with M1014 before. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

There isnt 2 m16 models , where do you get your info lol there is one the m16a3

== INCOMING ==

[http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/planetbattlefield.gamespy.com/images/news3/fact_sheet2.jpg *kaboom*]

EA just released the fact sheet with all the weapons/attachments/specs listed, there's the weapon page.

EDIT:[http://planetbattlefield.gamespy.com/fullstory.php?id=165281 and here's your proof]
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 13:22, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Is that M39 the Finnish Mosin-Nagant? Or is there another battle rifle that uses the M39 designation? Also, that list is missing the Groza bullpup AR that one dev caught one of the testers reloading.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 13:42, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

The M39 refers to the M14 variant used by the Marines [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_Enhanced_Marksman_Rifle (this)]. And the Groza bullpup was actually the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-91 A-91] (not the 9A-91 from BC2... Russian weapon designations are confusing)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 13:56, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Good find, kinda wish I hadn't looked at it though XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:11, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:: AHAHAHAHA, "SCAR H CQB" made my day. But at least they wrote ACOG, not ACOG Sight, nor ACOG Scope. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:::That is what FN Herstal calls it [http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=184&backPID=182&productID=10&pid_product=232&pidList=182&categorySelector=1&detail] though does it really belong in the carbines section? I would have thought it still belonged with the battle rifles. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:38, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

::::They call it CQC, C for Combat not B for Battle. But calling it CQB is still more correct than calling it simply SCAR-H, like in Modern Warfail 2, because that usually refers to SCAR-H STD, the one w/ the normal length barrel. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:47, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I see, fair enough. As you said though, at least they were slightly closer than some games. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:51, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Well, this does nothing to allay my fears about it being a generic AMURIKA V EVUL ARABS AND KOMMIES shooter. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:37, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
: Also, looks like y'all missed them calling it the M93R, rather than just the 93R like it should be. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

::A few things; first, it looks like this list is a little dated, as Demize confirmed both M16s, but even though details might have changed, I bet this is a 100% list. Second, remember this doesn't include stuff like the M320 (as it's a Gadget in terms of game), and mounted weapons. Third, I'm assuming the M39 (M14) will be semi only, as only it and the SKS are in the Battle Rifle section, with the G3 moved to Assault Rifles. Similarly, I'm betting the Glock 18 and Beretta 93R will be auto and burst only, otherwise the Glock 17 and M9 would be pretty useless. Fourth, notice that there is a P90 AND a P90TR. I'm thinking if you attach an RDS to the P90TR, it becomes the standard one, like COD4's MP5SD. Lastly, what's a T44 pistol? I did a quick search and all I got was this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/T44.jpg Oh, also, I'm totally using the M82 with irons, just for kicks :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I'm thinking the "T44" might be the sidearm for Iranian forces, like the KH2002 will be their assault rifle. I don't know what it could be referring to, though; as far as I know, Iran uses P226 copies as their standard sidearm.

This looks ''really'' suspicious to me. No G36E (as was expected from BF2 (L85 too)), no SG 550 (as was confirmed by Demize), no multiple M16 (wasn't that said by Demize?), "Battle Rifles" actually being Marksman Rifle (M39) and Semi-Automatic Carbine (SKS), several weapons being ported from BC2 (AEK-971, A-91, PP-2000, Saiga-20K, MP-412) instead of BF2 (Bizon or Vityaz, Saiga-12K) for no reason; Beretta 93R and Glock 18 are actually law enforcement automatic pistols and will overshadow regular pistols... And T44? WW2 prototype gun being put in pistols?

If this "fact" sheet was putted on [http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/ official Battlefield Blog], I would have believed it. As of now I take it with a grain of salt. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:38, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

: The sheet lists an SG553 in the carbines section. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:14, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

::That would be like someone saying: "We want M4 in BC2!" and someone responded: "There is M16 there". One weapon is assault rifle and other is carbine. They shouldn't cancel each other. Really. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:23, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

Also, how exactly do you think the "straight pull bolt" under the weapon accessories could work? Either it will be some bullshit about somehow putting a straight pull bolt on bolt actions to increase ROF which will annoy the hell out of me, or I suppose it could be putting a straight pull bolt on assault/battle rifles to increase accuracy and turn them into sort of sniper rifles. Either way, I don't like it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:32, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

T44 is what they are calling the [[Taurus Model 44]] revolver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:35, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

:Hmm, so the revolver unlocks are Russian .357 Magnum and Brazilian .44 Magnum... American .357 Magnum like Colt and S&W would have been more reasonable, honestly... But yeah, some wouldn't want revolvers in military shooters at all. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

::Sigh, more revolvers. I'm assuming that the straight pull bolt will be for snipers as opposed to assault/battle rifles, either for bolt actions to increase ROF (even though straight pulls are supposedly more tiring than turn bolts) or for the semi-auto snipers for a bit more accuracy? Teeny tiny list of machine guns, sadface. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:23, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== Weapon Reloads ==

Anybody seen the GamesCom Coop-Demo? I just noticed how the guy reloads his empty shotgun. First round into the chamber, all the following into the tube. I think they got it right this time. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 10:08, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

:I didn't see that one, but I saw the M1014 reload in the leaked alpha footage, and it does do that :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:19, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

::Tactical pistol reloads too :o --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:30, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP7A1 Alpha Gameplay ==

The amount of Alpha gameplay videos on Youtube is insane, but in one of them I did see an MP7A1. Looked like the same model used in the Medal of Honor reboot. It was only seen for a moment, so hopefully someone can add more information? [[User:Miyazawa|Miyazawa]] 22:11, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

:The MP7 is setup the same way as the MoH one, using the stock, grip, and pistol sights, but obviously has a proper empty reload. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:44, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

I have tried to add the MP7A1 on the BF3 weapon listing underneath the submachine guns but someone keeps on deleting it. I havent uploaded an image from youtube because honestly I dont know how, can someone help out with this and stop deleting this post as the weapon IS CONFIRMED. [[User:Valant]] 2:58PM, September 9, 2011 (PST)
: No, it's not. You're not allowed to post anything from the Alpha build. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:18, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

Valant here reposting MP7 gameplay, and to reply YES I CAN post because most weapons you see on page from the alpha/PAX gameshows. In fact for the most part all of the weapons should be deleted because they are from the same build. I have provided a link to show first hand footage. Once the game is released and this is fact checked, the comment I left before can be deleted. Here is the link again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuvvdBhH0r4

It's just not getting into your head, isn't it? Screencaps from non-official/leaked footage are STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. SO yeah, it's nice and all that you're linking that in the discussion, but please DO NOT edit the main page again until beta comes out. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:51, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Oh REALLY? Because last time I checked there are several screen caps and images that are of some low quality camera taking a picture of a screen DURING ALPHA! Check the muther f*****g G36C section, or The UMP45, the AK74M, the DIO KH2002, and G3A3. These are all weapons from the same build of the game and these have pages, ergo the MP7 should have its own section. Now, im off to put the post BACK UP so suck it.

:You are confusing Closed Alpha with NDA and Game Shows (Expos) intended for public. Those ones are categorised as Pre-alpha‎ (expos before Alpha) and Pre-beta (expos after Alpha). And you are just asking to get reported. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:03, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

.....reported.....really....well then if thats the case as I posted on another MP7 related discussion below Ill wait till the "official" news about it comes out
== Full Auto Carbine ==

Been reading and watching videoa and they all have the M4A1 listed as a carbine. Does anyone know if the M4A1 fires full auto, three round bursts, or a single shot when fired?

The M4A1 is a carbine that is full auto or semi, just like real life, is that wierd? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:44, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Carbines ==
What makes me really happy is they got the term Carbine right; the M4A1 is an M16 Carbine, the AKS-74U is an AK-74 Carbine, the SCAR-H CQC is a SCAR Carbine, the G36C is a G36 Carbine, the SG553 is a SG550 Carbine, and, well, you could call the A-91 an AKM Carbine I guess. That's also why the relatively short HK416 is in the Assault Rifle section and not the Carbine one: it's not a Carbine. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:52, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

:'''Trivia Information''':

:IRL in addition to Assault Rifle and Carbine category, there is also so called Sub-Carbine category (that is, shorter than Carbine). Four of the above mentioned pairs have three guns in these categories (and three of these four pairs even have additionally Automatic Rifle/Light Machine Gun variant but that's a different story). And here is the list:

:M4 Commando < M4 < M16
:AKS-74U < AK-105 < AK-74(M)
:G36C < G36K(E) < G36(E)
:SG 553 < SG 551 < SG 550

:And to which category HK416 belongs, [http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/hk416_specs.asp depends on the variant]. Quite a list, isn't it? ;)

:And while AKM didn't have official carbine (there was [http://www.red-alliance.net/forum/index.php?topic=11481.0 a prototype] and that's it), SKS can be considered one somewhat :P

:Maybe that was interesting to read :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:45, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Again... ==

What's with the people using this "fact sheet" to clutter the main page with weapon titles. Can't they wait for more substantial material before adding stuff? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:02, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

:Agreed; pages that are just lists of weapons without pictures or really any info look terrible, let's wait for them to show up. The people who care can find it here on the talk page, or Google :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:20, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

:Leaked info is not allowed, and entries with no pics or info aren't very much liked either. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:29, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ Precisely. Official artwork, renders, graphical announcements (like that for Physical Warfare Pack, or Battlelog), screenshots, trailers, gameplay videos; screenshots made from official trailers and gameplay videos. All those things will do. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:50, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

==UMP==

you can see it in a video from nvidia, the player to the right of the interview, you can see him using a UMP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiCNdEYCtgs

unkown what calibre, but im just gonna assume its UMP45 --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 06:38, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

==HK416==

another video from nvidia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUyIIIKta44

if you pause at 0:30 it looks like the HK416--[[User:Sike|Sike]] 06:42, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

:M27 IAR, to be specific. Based on the HK416, yes, but not a normal HK416. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:25, 21 August 2011 (CDT)
:: Well the Hk146 is in, it appeared on the battlelog stat page. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 09:25, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

== Weird Weapon ==

What is that weapon the guy starts using at 2:24, in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiCNdEYCtgs ? It looks like an AS VAL, but that optic setup is weird. I wish they sticked to the real life russian optics, instead of creating rail-attaching versions. E.g.: The PK-AS (russian holographic) is actually offset to the left side of the gun, not aligned with the bore or mounted on a rail.[[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 08:20, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

:Maybe it's quite hard to get hands on real Russian weapons in Sweden, so work is done with what's available... Oh, and PK-AS isn't holographic sight, it's reflex sight. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:56, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

:It might be the VSS. You can use iron sights on a sniper rifle so they might allow you to use reflex and holographic sights as well.

:There's no VSS, there's a VAL, but this guy's an Engineer, so it doesn't matter either way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:14, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

== Fact Sheet ==

People, while it has been confirmed that the fact sheet is indeed official, it's also been confirmed that it '''IS NOT A FINAL LIST''', it only shows the equipment available '''SO FAR'''. So don't worry, I'm sure many more equipment options will come (I hope these include an MP5). [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:34, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

:Well, Demize wouldn't confirm whether the Karkand guns will be able to be used in standard BF3, but the way he said it seemed to hint they might, so I'm betting we'll see the MP5 and PP-19 Bizon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:26, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

Gonzaga that's pretty much false hope , because there not going to release an official fact sheet and then add "many more guns" its not even wishful thinking its just stupid.and Alex when somethings is unconfirmed that doesn't mean its automatically going to be in the game, and if its anything like bfbc2 which it is, the guns will be seperate like the Vietnam expansion.

: First, no need to call me stupid. And second, do you really think they can't add more stuff to the game 3 months away from the release? Not even the beta is out! Plus, by equipment I didn't necessarily mean more weapons. I guess you thought so because my example was a weapon.[[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:03, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

I did not call you stupid, I called your idea stupid.You really think that there going too add tonnes more "equipment" after they've released an official statement than that is stupid.

:What's stupid here is you not signing your posts. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:06, 27 August 2011 (CDT)

::Lol owned :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:47, 27 August 2011 (CDT)

== SKS has a plastic stock ==
Demize confirmed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:36, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

== Battlefield 3 full weapons list ==
It is up on official [http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/complete-list-of-battlefield-3-weapons/ bf3 blog].

:That's not the official blog. As it says in the description, it's a fan site. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:21, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, but it is news of an actual official announcement. --[[User:Nomad175|Nomad175]] 00:00, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:::The announcement was leaked, meaning that the information it contains has no place on the main page. Until we get official imagery of each weapon, they should not be added to the main page. Just makes everything look a bit messy and half-arsed if you ask me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:49, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== About SVD ==

So were there any news from Demize or some official material released that confirmed that the magazine for SVD was fixed or not? Should it have been changed to NDM-86 on the main page? Only seen it in leaked Alpha (which ''could'' have been a temporal state, considering that SVU in BC2 had proper magazine (SVD and SVU use the same one), and this one probably ported from MoH for testing purposes). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:35, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

== Battleblog #8 ==
Sig 553 and Strela/Igla launcher confirmed in a post on the official Battlefield blog [http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2011/08/25/battleblog-8-build-your-weapon-of-choice.aspx] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:46, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:Heh, suppressive fire with carbine :) And the modelled launcher is [[SA-7 Grail|Strela-2]] (NATO reporting name: SA-7 Grail) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:22, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:: Thought as much, was the disk-shape thingy at the front that gave it away. <3 the weapon customisation that BF3 will offer though, gonna be awesome. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:46, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, the primary indicator for Strela-2 is that, errr, under-barrel thingy with tube-and-spike shape while every other model is ball-and-tube. Here is a nice chart: [http://blueprintbox.com/watermark-gif.php?img=./data/media/384/sa-14-strela-gremlin.gif]
:::And yeah, customisation is great \o/ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:22, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

::::That's the bit I meant, forgive my extremely technical description XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:06, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::Oh, heh, right. Thought you meant the launcher tube itself :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:47, 26 August 2011 (CDT)

The incoming weapon modification options seem very exciting....lots of options to tailor your weapon to your specifics. However, the only detail about the blog that keeps me sceptical is the fact that you need to unlock every feature for each weapon individually. Knowing that from MW2 that would mean hours and hours and hours of playing with just one weapon to finally unlock the parts needed to tailor it to your specifics, only to then unlock the next weapon you've been longing for and then you need to start again from scratch with that weapon. Rather frustrating IMO. Would a better idea to make the modification parts a global unlock, so that once you unlock say supressors with an assault rifle, it counts for ALL other assault rifles too...same with LMG's, Pistols, Shotgungs, etc. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 03:05, 26 August 2011 (CDT)

== "T44" ==
Found it; 2nd video, 21 seconds in. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:13, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Link please? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:25, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

OOPS, sorry, here:
http://ob-game.blogspot.com/2011/08/battlefield-3-three-videos-from-pax.html
[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:57, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

ummm you're wrong thats an mp412 , the scope also looks russian which gives it away

:Actually it doesn't look like the Mp412 at all or the T44, it looks a little different, take a look at this image I snapped of it
: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/mp412orcoltpython.jpg/
: To me it almost looks like a Colt Python from Black Op's, notice the iron sights, front and rear (the white markings) and the silhouette of the barrel and cylinder as well as the positioning of the grip, it's hard to say but my vote is towards a Colt Python. DICE did say they were going to add Faction specific weapons and if you look a little earlier the guy was using a Stinger. I'd think a Colt Python .357 Magnum would go nicely as a US analogue to the Russian MP412 .357 Magnum. Also to the Scope, it could just be a Russian style scope attached to a US weapon, they did say that the customization was huge so it's a possibility [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:47, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Its an mp412 , if it was a python it would have grooves down the barrel housing which it doesn't its solid like the mp412 also I noticed the break action latch near the iron sight, which also corresponds to the mp412 , the python does not have a break open design. *Edit* also the colt python is not in the game.

:The devs didn't say there isn't any other revolver in the game, thus shouldn't you, Persistent Mr. Anonymous. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:17, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:Well, it's NOT a 412, but it could be a Python, some S&W, the Raging Bull, I don't know. The lighting's wierd, but it looks stainless to me, which would be good if the MP412 is black. The SKS, which is synth, has been spotted with an EOTech, so unlocking American optics for Russian guns and vice versa is confirmed. I'm thinking every optic, with the exception of the 6x and 12x sniper scopes, can be used on anything. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:33, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Ok, if you cant indentify that gun, then you shouldn't really be on the site to be honest, because you can clearly tell that's a mp412 the colt python has barrel housing grooves this doesnt it solid like an mp412 , you can also see the break action latch is,colt pythons dont have this because they are not break reloaders. *Edit* and how can you say that it is stainless? its clearly black with a synthetic grip.
:In that case, by your rationale you should leave right now. Ignoring everything else about the gun, look at the muzzle end. This pistol has a rounded barrel with a raised rib. The Mp412 does not. Also, the locking indents on the cylinder are wrong for a MP412, where they are small cuts coming from the rear of the cylinder, rather than the more traditional ones shown here. The part of the frame that meets the rear of the cylinder is also wrong for a MP412, which would have a "step" rather than a smooth ramp where it widens to the width of the cylinder. Due to the motion blur ghosting on this image it is really hard to tell anything about it so we will just have to wait and see. Also, sign your posts and stop being so condescending. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:22, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Also, just noticed that in the same clip the person in front of you has a G36C, so that can go ahead and be confirmed, along with the Stinger for that matter. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:47, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
[[File:Battlefield 3 Tourney PAX Prime Day 2 Wrap Up.mp4 000021722.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[File:Battlefield 3 Tourney PAX Prime Day 2 Wrap Up.mp4 000021255.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

:Hmm, these are official videos, not DICE ones, but offical meaning by a site/company etc; should they be added to the main page? It's kind of a grey area. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:25, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::PAX and NVIDIA are definitely can be considered official source just as E3 and IGN. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

ok lets just leave it as the t44/mp412 for now, if we cant agree on what gun it is, then theres no point arguing senselessly we'll have to wait until the game comes out to properly identify it --[[User:Lukewilliams010|Lukewilliams010]] 14:10, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

==M4 and M4A1==

Was just browsing through twitter when i noticed something.

http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/108437158804717568

both the M4 and M4A1 is in. like how the the M16A3 and A4 are in. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 10:54, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Now that's amuses me because I had ''exact'' the same thoughts. Seems I wasn't alone xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:10, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

::Seems to me more that BF3 will have much more weapons than we thought. Well, let's just pick one up and kick some asses with it :) --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:12, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

I think its pretty cool they are getting multiple variants for each gun. Heres hoping for an AK-47 unlock.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 12:06, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

On the same twitter he makes a point of saying that the M4A1 was designed for special forces whereas the standard weapon that would be found being used by Marines is the M4. My spidey sense is telling me that the standard weapons will be the burst M4 and M16A4, and they will be upgradable to full auto M4A1 and M16A3 (flat-top receiver won't tally and the number will make no sense to the layman but whatever). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:46, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Nope, he already said the full auto ones are default. But I'd figure in SP we're more likely to see the burst ones. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:31, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

::SP: M4 for regular Marines, M4A1 for USSOCOM units, something like that. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:50, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

:In any case, it's awesome they added variants of many weapons. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:46, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

::Indeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:28, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Can't remember where I saw it from, probably from Battlefield wiki but I remember seeing that the weapon variants were based on each Classes Kit selection. So for example, take the Assault class, as it's being merged with the Medic Class, Players would have the option to equip either a Grenade Launcher of carry around a Medkit. So for example, an M16A3 could be default setting with a Medkit as a piece of equipment but the M16A4 is used when attaching a grenade launcher. But that's just my theory [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:37, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

::It's not really merging, they're just going back to how they had it in BF2142 (Assault = Medic + Assault, Recon = Sniper + Special Forces, Engineer = Anti-tank + Engineer and Support = um, Support, his main "thing" being his extra droppable things like a portable shield and a sentry gun). In 2142 every Assault had a Medkit since you don't want to give your medics the option of being even more useless, the optional item for the Assault class was the defib. The fastest way to get TK'd as Assault was to have someone realise you weren't carrying one. I imagine this one will be the same, Support will always have an ammo box and assault will always have a health box. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:35, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

==PWP Trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ukxgldpOo&feature=feedu

warning, containts footage from operation metro they some players may find offensive. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 08:58, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:That is... ''SKS''? Reminds me of AK-47 in MW2 *sadface*
:Another thing noted: incorrect reticles for M145 and PKS-07 are still in... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:27, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Remember though DICE did say that you can "customize" your weapon, that might be a SKS just heavily modified by the player rather than appearing as the "actual" weapon. Who know's if we're lucky, the SKS might be featured as standard in it's default config [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:::As much as I would want it to be, I doubt that what DICE meant by customization. BF3 so far doesn't seem to have customization as elaborate as, for example, [[Ghost Recon: Future Soldier]]. Thus this tacticool SKS is probably the only one *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:44, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:"DAO-12" -.-... OMG! What the heck is their deal with the DAO-12? Can't they just call it how it supposed to be called?! --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:01, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::DICE seems to have obsession with this "designation" as it tracks way back from Battlefield 2 (2005) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:16, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

DAO-12 was used because of a legal conflict with Armsel using the Striker name, it became a fan favorite so they kept the name. --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:09, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
i asked Demize on twitter and he replied saying it was a homage to BF2 --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 14:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:Exactly, and we all know how bad most gamers are at identifying weapons, the MW3 crowd widely believed the ACR was a SCAR because the ACR was tan (in MW2 the SCAR was tan and the ACR was this ugly grey colour, and now the ACR is tan). If they renamed it Striker a lot of BF players would think it was a different gun :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:20, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Er, that doesn't really sound like a bad thing :/ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:29, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

i asked demize about it, and he said they named it the DAO-12 as a homage to BF2 --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 07:57, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== M39 EMR confirmed ==
I asked demize if there was an m14 battle rifle and he replied ,and said there is a M39 EMR so that can now be added to the weapons list.--[[User:Lukewilliams010|Lukewilliams010]] 16:07, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:He also said SG 550 would be in, official blog showed SG 553. And SKS is "SKS". We need official ''illustrated'' material. As soon as it is available - go ahead, put it in. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:29, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yup, if we don't have a picture, don't add it, even if it's not leaked. It's not like we won't have everything up pretty soon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:53, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1/M16 Gas block question ==

I've seen quite a few topics concerning the lack of a visible gas block on the M4's and M16's in a number of shooters, and I was wondering if it was possible that the gas blocks could be either low-profile gas blocks that were either not visible or were actually under the RAS, or if the gas blocks were actually integrated into an after-market RAS. It seems odd to me that developers would repeatedly make the same mistake over different games in different franchises.

:It's possible to just remove the front sight without removing the gas block on a standard M16 rifle and M4 but it'd be a little exposed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:23, 10 September 2011 (CDT)

::Do you mean with a hacksaw? Aren't the gas block and front sight a single piece of metal? It is however possible to get a low profile gas block (relatively easy replacement) that only extends above the barrel to the height of the gas tube plus a few mm, so that certain free floating RIS systems can be mounted over the top of it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:39, 10 September 2011 (CDT)

:::That was my question; with all the Military consultants they have coming in and looking at this stuff, I'd always assumed that they had just modeled an after market RIS and low-profile gas-block.
--[[User:Hominis Solus|Hominis Solus]] 21:58, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:I wonder why developers won't just model Flat Top Mounts\Risers on the sights for M4s\M16s ? That's how the problem is solved IRL, including in U.S. Military. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:16, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
::I'd imagine that most modellers don't realise that the front sight is also the gas block, so they see no problem in removing it for aesthetic/gameplay purposes. 99% of gamers probably don't realise either. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:15, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Both the modellers and the gamers doesn't supposed to care about this kind of things, only people like us, it can concern. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:31, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:It was well after I got into learning about firearms and such that I found out the front sight (gas block) and stock tube (buffer tube) are required for the AR series to function, so you can't remove either pretty much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:53, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

::It's true that the stock front sight post is also the same piece of metal as the gas block, but you can remove them so long as you put a new gas block on.
--[[User:Hominis Solus|Hominis Solus]] 21:58, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I meant you can't just take it off :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:30, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== A-91 ==
Confirmed to be the more modern 5.56mm version by Demize. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:08, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Guillotine Teaser Trailer ==
Anyone else seen it? There's a mortar that the player-character uses to send up flares (I think they called them illumination rounds) and I think the player-character also uses a Mk. 17 with some sort of 4x scope. Sorry, I'm still fairly new to this. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:27, 12 September 2011 (CDT)
:I think the mortar is an M224, and yes it was a Mk.17 with an ACOG (magazine looked a bit small in the mag-well, but could be the angle as could only be seen when climbing the wall). Also, it looks like the guy who is stabbed at the end of the video is carrying a G3A3 with an ACOG. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:35, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

== M16 series reload animation ==

I'm fairly new to this site, though I've been following it closely to see the development of the firearms that will appear in Battlefield 3.
I've been reading that a lot of you guys are expecting an accurate portrait of the M16 series reload animation in the game. I just wanted to ask how do you properly reload an M16 in real life? It is my understanding that when the rifle is empty, you load it by pulling the charging handle. But when there is a bullet still in the chamber you just need to press the bolt catch. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I just want to get this clarified since I've never been able to understand the reload mechanic of the M16.
[[User:Santos|Santos]] 01:14, 16 September 2011 (CDT)
:With the exception of loading the gun for the first time or clearing a jam, you never need to touch the charging handle. If you are reloading from a partial magazine, there will be a round in the chamber so all you need to do is drop out the magazine and push a new one in. When you you empty the magazine in an M16 type weapon the bolt locks back automatically, so you drop out the magazine, put a new one in, and then all you need to do is push the bolt release on the left side to let the bolt go forwards (you can also push the forward assist if you feel like it). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:20, 16 September 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the third reason you might is if you just picked it up off the ground, to check it's still mechanically sound. Though that sorta falls under clearing a jam. Edit: Also you might part-pull it on drawing it if you're into brass checks, though given how often FPS characters change weapons habitually brass-checking on draw would probably indicate a very short memory. "Yep, still there from ten seconds ago, how bout that." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:09, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

You could rack the charging handle if you like, but the proper way to reload and empty M16 type weapon is to just slap the bolt release. I call it the ping pong paddle. A lot of games forgets about little things like reloads for weapons [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:02, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

== Who removed the MP7!?! ==

Okay, who took away the MP7 from the submachine gun catergory? I spent a whole 20 minutes adding that section of the article and some guy just deleted it. Why? It was really in the game and not in any way spammy or vestigial. Whoever took away put it back. Come on, I don't want to remake the whole thing.

THere are NO official images of it. And no official video footage has featured it. Don't post images from the Alpha --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:20, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

But the fact remains that it has been seen in the game, and it was already on the page before I made the changes.

Why can't I use the Alpha? I don't know if there is or is not a rule regarding alpha version footage and stuff. I thought the purpose of this site was to chronicle what weapons were used in what movies/games/TV/Anime. If I have evidence that the MP7 is in BF3, why does it matter whether or not it was from the Alpha or official footage? The image I used was from a gameplay video I saw on Youtube. Does this mean no one can use their own gameplay videos?

:No, it means that you have to wait for officially released material or for the game to actually come out. This applies to leaked gameplay footage, images from leaked betas, dubious leaked information in general (eg the MW3 leaks from Kotaku) unapproved on-set photos, leaked movie footage like that infamous cut of ''X-Men Origins: Wolverine'', and so on. Building an article is not a race, if we have to wait to confirm something is official, that's what we do. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

I suppose that makes sense, I'm gonna keep that in mind when making contributions in the future.

I thought anything to do with the Alpha was under an NDA anyway? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:31, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, if you look at the screencap he posted the guy who leaked it deliberately blacked out his own name. Obviously knew he shouldn't have been recording it and posting it in the first place. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

Okay, for the last frickin' time. Please DO NOT add weapons that are not in any official gameplay vids/trailers/screenshots, until they are.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:02, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

@ HashiriyaR32: Hey! I was also someone who tried adding the section of the MP7. Its in the alpha videos but to be fair, so is every freaking gun that is on this page! The only videos that are available are the ones from the alpha. Seriously take the amount of time it takes to delete the post and go onto youtube and see for yourself! In fact, after posting this I will repost the MP7 with a link to the youtube video...Also FYI I happen to love this website and for all it stands for and I try to monitor several different games to make sure the info is correct, I would never want to add something that didnt exist in a videogame/movie. Valant

:What? Nothing on the page is from the alpha, everything's from screenshots, trailers, concept art, or official videos, like EA Pwned, IGN, etc. If you don't believe me, give me an example. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:52, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

@Valant, its as simple as this. To take part in the Alpha you had to sign a non disclosure agreement. That means that any footage that you have seen was illegally distributed. Until guns show up in an official (and legal) source, they shouldn't be listed here. The MP7 may very well be a weapon in the game, but the point is that at this point that information has not been publicly release, to say nothing of the fact that legal screenshots cannot be posted on here. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:11, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

:Right, and as soon as the Beta is out, we can add everything, it's only a week-ish, and besides, WE all know the MP7 & others are in, and they can be mentioned on the talk page, just the official page can't have it. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:39, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Then I should just delete this whole page then shouldnt I? Because again every weapon we are seeing IS NOT CONFIRMED! There is no beta released and only Alpha videos....Seriously this is bullshit
:The difference is that all the other weapons are from material that was released by EA, or from footage that they allowed to be shot (The images from the G36C section are from an interview with one of the developers IIRC) as opposed to the video you posted which was illegal made and distributed by someone breaking the NDA they signed. As you seem unable to grasp this, just wind your neck in for a week or so until the Beta is released, and then it can be posted with LEGALLY obtained confirmation images. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:15, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

If posting info from a breach of NDA is the main reason than I can understand that. Then I shall wait for the "official" information to be released.
== G3A3 and UMP.45 ==
The weapons can be seen in these videos from GameSpot in the Tokyo Game Show 2011.
Though it's cam footage you can clearly see the pick-up icon of the weapons.

Someone should work their magic and add those to the page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0M7_3wENw Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsI9Vsv5wE Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arOhTIaeGGY Part 3

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 12:59, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

:I can have it down in about 20 minutes. --[[User:Samael527|Samael527]]

:I would imagine that if it is cam footage it has likely not been officially release and is against copyright, so probably shouldn't have caps on here. You can get a shot of the G3A3 from the end of the guillotine trailer though. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:05, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

::I added the two weapons on the page. Since the videos were not leaked but released by a reputable game journalism/review site (Gamespot.com) it should be okay, right? If they weren't allowed to release it Gamespot wouldn't have done so. I looked around and other gaming websites are posting the footage as well [http://www.gametrailers.com/video/tgs-11-battlefield-3/721062]. I'm pretty new to IMFDB, so is the stuff I saw in the gameplay okay to post? --[[User:Samael527|Samael527]]

::Similary to E3 with IGN, PAX with NVIDIA, TGS with GameSpot definitely can be considered official source. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:53, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

== M1911 Confirmed ==

http://gunclub.ea.com/us/intel/blog/battlefield3-weapon-unlock

For being an EA gunclub member you get an M1911 :P --Joey1666

Pic here: http://web-vassets.ea.com/Assets/Richmedia/Gun-Club/images/bf3-gun-unlock.jpg --[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

:Not too sure exactly what pistol they have based this on though. It has slanted cocking serrations on the slide (rear only), non target sights, beavertail grip safety and a rounded burr hammer. Closest thing I can think of is the early version of the [[1911#M-45_MEUSOC|M-45 MEUSOC]], which are a old USGI 1911 frame with a [[1911#Springfield_Armory_M1911_-_A1|Sprinfield Armoury]] slide, a rounded hammer, a beavertail grip safety and Pachmayr rubber grips (along with some other less obvious improvements). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:58, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, I'm pretty sure it IS the original version of the MEU. Also, you missed the Springfield 3-hole trigger. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:24, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

:Gun Club? Looks like EA is messing up again: http://gunclub.ea.com/us/mygunclub/rewards
:They haven't even fixed the stat tracking :S --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:12, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

== Battlefield 3 Open Beta ==

So, EA confirmed the PC/X360/PS3 BETA startup. Begining 27.09 for those who have MoH 2010 Tier One Edition, and 29.09 for the rest.
Good opportunity to test the game and get some guns updated :). ~ GumBoy 21.09.2011 16.07 (CET)

:Actually, the early access is open for people with the Medal of Honor Limited Edition as well, not just Tier One. It's also for people who pre-ordered before a certain cutoff, but I can't remember the specifics. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:10, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

::Can't wait for this, hope we get a different map this time, Operation Metro was good but not great. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:37, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Caspian Border would be great :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:06, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

== PP2000 Spotted ==
Battlelog pics here: http://www.battlefieldlog.com/2011/09/battlefield-3-beta-battlelog.html

Pic here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pdUIBRNHpXo/Tn4uZQaayQI/AAAAAAAAAdw/PVmts2hVNjU/s1600/battlelog-4.jpg

:What's the pistol, what's the shotgun? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:09, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::I believe the handgun is a Glock variant, whilst the shotgun is Benelli M3 Super 90. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 08:02, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:::I saw the PP2000 in action at Eurogamer Expo, looked pretty good. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:16, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Hmm, I never saw it before. The shotgun is the 870 MCS and the pistol is the Glock 17. If you look at the page, he's level 0 with no XP, so these are the first unlocks, which makes sense given what they are: a shotgun, a pistol that isn't faction-based that's similar to the M9 and MP443, and a PDW. Also, now that the PP2000 has a stock we won't have any more stockless guns, specifically stockless guns with scopes... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:08, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Hmm, the magazine tube is rather short for M870 MCS. Which would mean it is rather regular variant of M870 with pistol grip and full stock. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:49, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::No, the MCS is modular, hence the name, it just has the 4 round tube as standard, with the 7 round one as an attachment. This is the MCS: http://www.kiesler.com/shop/ProductImages/Model870MCS_PartSLG.jpg [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:57, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::The magazine tube in MCS is supposed to have the same length as the barrel as can be seen here: [http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/Firearms/Shotguns%20Pump/MCS.aspx Remington Model 870 Modular Combat Shotgun (MCS)]. Thus the 3+1 MCS would have the same 10" barrel. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:23, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::::I understand it's supposed to, but it's still an MCS, just not assembled properly or something. If you don't like it, just use the extended tube attachment, I know I will be, and Demize confirmed (how many times have I written those two words now?) all the extended mag attachments are visible, like the MP7s 40 round magazine, or this shotgun. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:50, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::If that's so... Okey, an oddly assembled MCS ¯\(°_o)/¯
:::::::::P.S. I didn't count how many times you have written those two words D: --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:02, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::LOL! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:08, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::Demize confirmed that Alex says 'Demize confirmed' a lot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:00, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::::[http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/hr/im-metal-hs-2000-e.html XD] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:12, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

==ACR?==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coOHjF4_apI&feature=channel_video_title

Magpul Masada/ ACR?

At 0:36, the handguard and flashhider look very similar to that of the ACR

:I think it might be the SG 553, also has a similar flashhider. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:07, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::Agree, it is the SG 553. Can tell by the design of the rail system, shape of the receiver and the fact that it has a smooth curve to the top of the stock rather than an adjustable cheek riser. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:14, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

I also see the M320 Launcher at 0:41, so thats one more launcher for the page [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:09, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, what a song choice :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:12, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:Whine, whine, whine. No game is good enough for you people. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:41, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::Not game - song >:O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:49, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

::Yay, finally can see the M320 mounted instead of standalone :D And yeah, I agree that's the 553. Oh, and what do you mean "you people"? Lol ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:05, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Sorry, I thought you were complaining about the game. I was just joking when I said that. *rolls eyes* - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:44, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

== NDA for Beta ==

OK, from what I'm hearing the Beta is going to be subject to an NDA, just like the Alpha. This may just be for the early access and may be rescinded once it goes public, or it may be for the whole thing.

What this means is that we can't post info or shots from the Beta build until it is rescinded. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:02, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

:[http://twitter.com/#!/zh1nt0/status/115781634879524864 Disregard.] I screwed up, again. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:15, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

::Haha :) That's good news [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:18, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

== G17C modelled after G17 ==

I just talked to a DICE dev on Steam, and he told me the reason they modelled the G17C after a regular G17 it's to save prestanda so the game can run as smoothly as possible.
So that's why is missing those compesators "holes" on the slide. And the reason they decided to still call it a G17C, is because is only a minor detail. They probably have more relevant things to fix, than changing the correct name of a weapon. edit: forgot to sign [[User:Santos|Santos]] 03:46, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:That's understandable, given the crazy graphics and everthing else this game it running. If they don't change it we'll note it as incorrect on the main page, but note that it was intentionally left out; if they do know the correct difference between the C and standard, but needed to do for technical reasons, I'm happy. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 30 September 2011 (CDT)

::But someone could state in the main page, that it was left there intentionally due to some other and more important things to worry about in the development of the game. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 03:46, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

::I guess that proves that Frostbite 2 Engine is much more complicated and difficult to mod than Refractor 2 Engine. To fix weapon's name in Battlefield 2 one needed a mere Notepad ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:57, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:::That might well not change, since the config files will have weapon names in plain text that can be replaced (unless the names are actually images or something). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:49, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:I think it's stupid what the guy from DICE said: "''We modeled the gun after the regular G17 so the game would run faster...''" Huh? So if the gun is actually a 100% G17, why call G17C? Am I missing something here? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 04:10, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

::Modelling the holes ''would'' require they put an inside surface on the barrel, but I can't see how an engine that features buildings falling into hundreds of pieces of high-detail rubble would be screwed over by that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:47, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

== Corrected some information ==

I went through and fixed some things. There is a Korean M16 that has 4 firing modes and the shotgun in Op Gullotine is a Remington 870 which you can tell by looking at the rear sight. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:23, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:It has four? Cool, didn't know that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:41, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

== Lack of weapon variety ==

Theres so many AK and M4 style weapons but no real variety, wheres the steyr, uzi and such.
The snipers are pretty much useless after the first two so why change ?
Like 3 AK styled assault rifles ?
Am i missing the point because it seems Mw3 has a much better weapon variety.
When i unlocked the SkS it takes 4 bullets to kill. That's double what the other two took even though they're the same calibre. - Joey1666

:Devs are lazy. Quite a bunch of unlocks are derivatives of starting weapons. There are so many European weapons that could be put as unlocks, but nooooo! Maybe DICE are saving for DLCs? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:: Yeah when they said 10 times the unlocks, who knew they meant dogtags and pistols with new attachments. And we have to unlock the same attachments for every other gun over and over. Whats with the lack of guns ? :/ And Some weapons like the m16 take 6 bullets to kill... the ump takes 7 from my experience. So why even bother using these weapons when i can have a sniper that 2 hit kills with a RDS. The beta has dissapointed me. --[[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

:::Maybe the game will have a "Hardcore" mode like the Modern Warfere games. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:51, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Always fun when people complain about balance before the balance has had any meaningful time to settle. Tomorrow people will be complaining half these things are totally overpowered when they figure out how to use them properly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:34, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:::: Im not complaining about balance, if AR's take 6 hits to kill, i dont mind ill stick to my battle rifle. Just wish there was more variety is all. - Joey1666

:::::Well, from trying the PS3 beta it seemed all my weapons took ~6 hits to kill while all their weapons killed me instantly. Nothing like repeatedly being murdered by a spawncamper with, of all the goddamn things in the world, a UMP. >:( [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:23, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::All of the 5.56mm (and 9mm) weapons do 25 damage at point blank, making them 4 hit kill, and start dropping after about 20 feet, so 5 at midrange seems better, but could be 6, I can't see how far you're shooting. Also, all the 7.62mm (and .45) guns do 33.4 damage at point blank. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Well, I hope they fix the damage, from what I'm reading it's pretty stupid right now. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:35, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::: Personnally I like the fact that there are many AK & AR15 style firearms in it, and for that you have to unlock the attachements for each gun, I don't see a problem there, you just have to use the guns if you really want them. --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 12:11 October 2 2011 (CDT)

:::: Yeah i dont mind unlocking the same attachments over and over its just that they said there's 10 times the unlocks and not the same unlock 10 times however the amount of attachments is a nice touch. I just wish there was more weapons is all. - Joey1666

There, I removed all Kalashnikov and Stoner weapons and thats what is left, why are you guys complaining? The weapon selection is good. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:04, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

G3A3
AN-94
KH2002
AEK-971
F2000
AS VAL

Carbines (Engineer)

G36C
SCAR-H CQC
A-91
SG553

Machine Guns (Support)

M249E2
M60
M240
6P41
QYJ 88

Sniper Rifles (Recon)

SVD (RU)
M40A5
SV98
M98B
M82A3 (not in MP)

Battle Rifles (Recon)

M39 EMR
SKS

Sub-Machine Guns (All Kit)

P90TR
MP7A1
UMP45
PDR
PP2000

Shotguns (All Kit)

870 MCS
M1014
USAS-12
Striker

Pistols (All Kit)

M9 (US)
MP443 (RU)
G17
M-45
MP412
T44
93R
G18

Once the main game comes out, we'll all see the diversity, alot of the weapons in the Beta are mostly there for testing purposes, I haven't even seen anyone unlock ALL the weapons yet in the Beta so I'm not sure how many exist there. Plus we might also see more weapon diversity in the Singleplayer [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:12, 2 October 2011 (CDT)
:To add on to my reply, I should also mention that while yes I feel a little disappointed that they didn't add some other "common" weapons like a traditional MP5 or some other weapons like certain Pump Action Shotguns, it doesn't really phase me too much, because from what I've seen thus far they've pretty much nailed some of the roles appriopriately. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:23, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:: Ok so ive done a bit of research, veteran gives you one extra weapon, Co-op gives you 6 extra weapons and the first expansion gives you 10 weapons.... thats 17 more weapons. I feel more comfortable now :) Not only that but theres plans for more expansions :) http://mp1st.com/2011/10/02/leaked-weapon-list-for-battlefield-3-back-to-karkand-dlc/ - Joey1666

::In realistic terms 9mm subguns and indeed subguns in general have fallen out of favour since the 80s / 90s and largely replaced by 5.56mm carbine rifles in their traditional roles as bad guys started wearing body armour. From what I've heard, neither the UMP or the MP7 did anything like as well as their older brother. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:28, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:Not quite right. The co-op and veteran weapons are among the list we have now, only the Back To Karkand expantion give new weapons.

== Something that someone should suggest to the Battlefield Twitter ==

I don't have a Twitter so I would appreciate if someone did this for me. I want a option where I can set my spawn prefences. Right now I'm using the UMP 45 and each time I spawn, I set it to 2 round burst and turn off the tac light till I need it. I would like if I can set an option that I spawn the way I want and not full auto. Most of the time I don't use full auto unless its a machine gun. Ghost Recon had this option and I liked it. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:26, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

== Excited ==

Im excited that this game will be more realistic than most others. I like the fact we will also be able to use selector switches. Did I hear right? The UMP-45 has a two round burst mode? I wasn't aware the UMP had a burst mode. I always thought it had Semi and auto.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:It can have a semi, 2-round burst, auto trigger group option. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:48, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:Duh, that's what manufacturer's sites for ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:08, 3 October 2011 (CDT)
:[http://www.heckler-koch.de/HKWebText/detailPara/1926/82/4/20/213 UMP on H&K's European site]
:[http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/ump_specs.asp UMP on H&K's US site]

H&K is usually pretty good about having burst option trigger packs. You just don't hear about it very often because in most movies and television shows, the selector is always set to rock n roll.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 18:22, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==
http://www.enterbf3.com/viewtopic.php?t=4707&sid=91faa55311d7c875027fba7bd657d6fb

A whole bunch of leaked info, from the game files I believe. The working names for some SP missions, and all the Co-op and MP maps too, as well as the unique to BTK weapon list. Note that they incorrectly call the HK53 an MP5, even though it actually was called HK53 in BF2 :confused face: As of now it is unknown whether these will carry over to the standard game.

ARs

-L85A2

-FAMAS

Carbines

-QBZ-95B

-HK53

MGs

-QBB-95

-MG36

Sniper Rifles

-L96

-QBU-88

SMG

-PP-19

Shotgun

-Jackhammer

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:33, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:LOL, Jackhammer is back. That was the only prototype gun in BF2 xD
:'''@Alex''' HK53 was the carbine for Euro Force's Spec Ops class. Whether MP5 was the submachine gun for USMC's Anti-Tank class ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:08, 3 October 2011 (CDT)
:'''Edit:''' Ah, I've read the thread. There are probably going to be both weapons in the DLC \o/

::Sure would love to see the FAMAS. I was secretly hoping for the XM8 to return, but I guess you can't get everything. [[user:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 11:40, 3 October 2011

:::The XM8 did return, it's called the G36. They just didn't put it inside a silly plastic model spaceship. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:19, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::Well said. I have to agree you on that, I prefer the actual G36 rather than the 'uber-futuristic-tacticool' plastic prototype that is... wait, was... wait it didn't even leave the prototype stages... well anyways, that is the xm8 --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 12:23, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

== .44 Magnumn, M60, USAS-12 and Claymore gameplay ==

Found some videos of the Claymore and Revolver in action, looks like the T-44 is just called .44 Magnum any idea what kind of revolver it is? Also M60E4 is seen in one vid with a 200 round capacity and USAS-12 with a 7 round box mag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLW7WcIv_gA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExvIOmviDgw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 16:06, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:It's a [[Taurus Model 44]]. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:28, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:I guess DICE followed IW's example. They named Colt Anaconda simply ".44 Magnum" before. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:35, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

::I'm liking the new .44 Magnum from what Videos I've seen so far. Up close it seems to behave just like how a .44 Magnum should. At short-close range (10 or less feet) it seems to kill in one shot to the upper chest/head but further distances (up to say 30-40 feet) seem to kill in 2 shots to the body or one to the head. Plus with addition of a Scoped version, I can see this being the ideal "Mini-Sniper". I think the way there going about it is the MP412 is the better option up close while the .44 Mag is better at range. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 07:28, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== HK416 ==

I was reading the description of the HK416 on the main page and there is something I don't quite understand.
In the main page it states that the weapon in-game has 3 firing modes; semi, 3-round burst and auto and that there aren't many Stoner lower receivers that support 3 firing modes. But isn't the Stoner platform manufactured by KAC? And why is it being use on a HK manufactured weapon? And if that is the case, then shouldn't it be pointed out as custom HK416?

And my other question is about the licensing of the weapons. Since there are other HK weapons that goes by their correct names like the MP7A1, G36C, M27 IAR and M320. Why would they license those particular weapons and not the HK416, making DICE name it M416? I think is most likely a misunderstanding rather than a copyright issue.

Please correct me here if I'm wrong. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 01:24, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:Devs are hell-bent on making HK416 the US' service rifle. Can't think of any other reason. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:38, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

Eugene Stoner is the inventor of the the AR 15/AR10/M16/M4. The name for the platform as a whole is the Stoner. There are over 100 manufacturers of AR 15s in the US. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:55, 4 October 2011 (CDT)