Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Justified - Season 1

2012-04-02T03:41:02Z

Dirtdiver6421: Created page with "An interesting note is that in te episode bulletville after killing the two Men sent to kill him Raylan can be seen putting what appears to be a sig ( you can see the hammer) in..."

An interesting note is that in te episode bulletville after killing the two
Men sent to kill him Raylan can be seen putting what appears to be a sig ( you can see the hammer) into his holster but is never seem again after words

Talk:Chuck

2011-12-21T02:36:37Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* caseys Sig */ new section

==Season 5 unknown guns==
Please help with the guns? Thanks. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:40, 5 November 2011 (CDT)
[[File:ChuckS5 36.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

==Important Note==
An important note to editors: Please differentiate between "a" (firearm) and "the" (firearm). "the" (firearm) should only be used when you are describing 1 single firearm that can transfer hands as many times as it does, whereas "a" should be used when you are describing the same type of firearm, but have no proof to back up that that single firearm "storywise" was in other screenshots. Cpacu6o :) --[[User:Sergei Titov|Сергей Титов, Sergei Titov]] 19:50, 1 November 2011 (CDT)

And please when adding episode titles for this show use the word "Versus" instead of the abbreviation "Vs." since the official title for each episode spells it out such "Chuck Versus the Intersect". --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:53, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

==New Episodes==
Anyone got some screencaps from the Frosted Tips?

Sergei, it just aired in US. Please be patient. (Also sign your posts) --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 23:43, 11 November 2011 (CST)

In Chuck Versus The Business Trip, Viper uses a suppressed Browning Buckmark Pistol, and has an array of small arms layed out on her bed. --[[User:Sergei Titov|Сергей Титов, Sergei Titov]] 16:07, 19 November 2011 (CST)

==Additional Stills and screens==

[[File:315ChuckRolemodels.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[File:Strahovski-ep303-034.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Sarah and Chuck check on Casey]]
[[File:Strahovski-ep109-34.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Casey and Sarah stare into a shipping container in "Chuck vs. The Imported Hard Salami"]]
[[File:Strahovski-ep207-049.jpg|thumb|none|500px|"I can't shoot him, he's the Intersect!!!" from "Chuck vs. The Fat Lady"]]
[[File:Strahovski-ep107-008.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Sarah uses her 5906 in "Chuck vs. The Alma Mater"]]
[[File:Strahovski-ep107-036.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Sarah firing her 5906 in the classroom shootout in "Chuck vs. The Alma Mater"]]
[[File:Strahovski-ep103-016.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Sarah holding her 6906 thrown to her by Casey, on an MI6 agent who also seems remarkably unconcerned after having one of his men shot in the chest in "Chuck vs. The Tango."]]

[[File:Sarahsigmapromo.JPG|thumb|none|300px|Promotional image showing the slide]]
[[File:Photo 1.JPG|thumb|none|500px|In "Chuck vs. The Other Guy" Sarah pulls her 5906 on the director of The Ring in his private elevator shaft.]]
[[File:Strahovski-ep313-065.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Shaw holds his HK45C on the Ring Director in "Chuck vs. The Other Guy'']]
[[File:DanielShawS3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Shaw firing his USP in "Chuck vs. The Ring Part II"]]
I believe that he's firing just a normal USP with a stainless slide in this picture [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 14:23, 27 October 2011 (CDT)
[[Image:Picture_479.jpg|thumb|none|300px|John Casey ([[Adam Baldwin]]) has a M4A1 Carbine with an Trijicon 4x ACOG scope and a vertical foregrip]]
[[Image:Picture_1000.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[File:LightsOutLOLOL.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Casey firing the Trank Gun through a false outlet in Season 3's "Chuck vs. The Nacho Sampler"]][[File:Chuck shoot-300x168.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Chuck shoots Ring agents with his Trank Gun in Season 3's "Chuck vs. Operation Awesome"]]
[[File:Trankgunfall.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Chuck saving the day in "Chuck vs. The Cat Squad"]]
[[File:Tranq gunrsz.jpg|thumb|none|400px|.]]
[[File:Strahovski-ep202-054.jpg|thumb|none|500px|In "Chuck vs. The Seduction," Sasha Banachek's men hold Sarah with their Five-SeveN's]]

[[File:Strahovski-ep409-055.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Another view of Morgan's chrome Desert Eagle Mark I]]
[[File:S4castle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|General Beckmann briefing the team]]

==Custom Suppressed 1911==
I'll go and get a screenshot if no one else has one, but in Chuck vs. The Fat lady, the fulcrum agent from "Tuttle Electric" totes a i think silver safari matchmaster with wood grips, and a silver suppressor. he later uses it un suppressed to hold Jill at gunpoint on the Opera stage.

==Trank Guns==
The trank guns are Baby WE high capa 3.8 green gas airsoft guns. WE makes several variations of these high quality all metal airsoft guns that field strip, and function very much like the real deal. Chuck seems to use the variant that has 3 cuts in the slide that exposes the barrel. --[[User:James3|James3]] 07:33, 6 July 2011 Best Images:
http://www.tokyo-model.com.hk/ecshop/images/200802/1203814245595151646.jpg
http://www.tokyo-model.com.hk/ecshop/images/200802/1203813613402154444.jpg
http://www.airsplat.com/Images/GP-WE-HiCapa-38.jpg
http://www.uncompany.com/images/we-baby3.8-cs-sv_big.jpg
http://www.justpistols.co.uk/we38_001.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eHanHmgWYSE/SM4srwGxsrI/AAAAAAAAAIA/CK6U1Y02ZdU/s320/gun_0313_2+WE+black+Hi+Capa.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/spawnvenom/IMG_0408.jpgCDT)

Looks like a customized P226 with a 20 round magazine, the lack of a beavertail and the presence of the forward serrations make me think of the P226 Extreme. I also think it's what Casey has been carrying in the last few episodes. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 07:22, 3 June 2011 (CDT) - This is definitely the gun that Casey has been using namely the shootout at Ms. Winterbottom's house, I can tell by the long grip. Ms. Winterbottom refers to it as "That damn pea-shooter" - that being when she pulls an M60 from her dainty cedar chest. - Sergei Titov (Сергей Титов)

:It's not a P226 Extreme - doesn't have the right grips. Look at the slide design - it has the space between the cocking serrations and the rear of the slide that is seen only on the original German-made P226s with stamped-steel slides. It looks to me like this is an older-model SIG P226 that has been customized to look like a P226 Equinox, just as Casey's SIG P229 is an older-model 229 modified to look like an Equinox. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 09:03, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

[[File:Chuck 272.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:This is a Taurus PT911 or PT940. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 09:03, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

[http://images.wikia.com/chuck/images/9/92/Tranq_gun.jpg] - Business End of Trank Gun
[http://images.wikia.com/chuck/images/6/65/Weapon_stash.jpg] - Trank Gun (Lower Right Hand Corner)

^ That's Chuck's "10mg Trank Gun" a Custom made Kimber Pro Covert II with a drilled slide, extended chrome barrel, and a red/green laser on a bottom accessory rack - Editors please note that this gun plays a major part in the series and should be added to the main page.

==SIG 229==

I just have a quick question, for those of you who play video games: What game could Morgan possibly be referring to that would allow him to identify Casey's weapon as a SIG 229? The only game I'm aware of that has the 229 is ''[[Syphon Filter: The Omega Strain]]'', and even then, the gun isn't IDed by name (to my understanding). So what game might Morgan have played? It's nothing particularly important; just curious. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:00, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
::We can assume that Morgan is such a game dork that he would have identified (or had the gun verbally identified by another geek to him) while playing the game. For the record, I know next to nothing about Video Games. When I have to choose hmmmm, shoot the 229 in a video game or shoot the 229 for real? I tend to choose shooting the guns for real 100% of the time ;) LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:20, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think the producers looked to see if it was in any games. They assumed that it would be in a game, and that Morgan's nerdiness would allow him to identfiy it.

Enter the Matrix has a Sig 229 sporter in the game and it should be in any game dealing with the secret Service, and it is in "Secret Service: The Ultimate Sacrifice". [[Spades of Columbia]]

:I don't know much about video games either, but even in games about the secret service would they identify the weapon by its actual name? I thought video games always made up names for the weapons they feature, even if the weapons are based on real models. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

I doubt they were thinking of it, they just wanted to show that although he is a nerd he can identify a weapon, besides TV shows and movies have often used games that don't exist for when character has to play something, why would they bother with thinking which game has the gun or if there is one that has it at all--[[Special:Contributions/188.112.128.8|188.112.128.8]] 13:11, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Good example: In "Chuck vs. the helicopter" I believe the simulator games mentioned were fictional.

Going off on a bit of a tangent would Casey's SIG be chambered in .357 SIG as are the secret services 299's, i know morgan said it was a 9mm but this has never been confirmed either way and you never see and guns chambered in this calibur on television - Captain Snikt

:Dude, you see this picture:

:[[Image:IMG 1680.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Enlarge it to full-size and you can see that it says "9mm Para" on the top of the barrel visible from the ejection port. And the gun you see in this picture is ''the'' actual SIG 229 that Adam Baldwin uses on the show, as I wrote in the caption on the page. So yes, I'd say that this '''does''' confirm his gun is a 9mm. Remember, this is a TV show, not real life; Hollywood's armorers tend to use 9mm pistols instead of other calibers because 9mm used to be the easiest caliber to convert to blank-fire. What the Secret Service uses in real life is irrelevant (and Casey is said to be NSA, anyway). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:20, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, It's just a shame we never get to see any of the more powerful lesser known rounds in movies/tv, but thanks for clearing that up - Captain Snikt

==Glock prop==
While I'm not sure, it's not likely the Glock 17 used is an airsoft gun from airsplat. Airsoft websites have a tendency to bs about having their guns used on movies and tv shows when they aren't, and since ISS was supplying plenty of real blank converted weapons it seems unlikely they'd use a gas blowback airsoft gun. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Well access to the weapons is not the primary point. When you have a network budget, you ALWAYS have access to blank firing weapons. But blanks ARE expensive and loud. They could have been filming in a location that prohibited the live fire. We all have been in areas where we could NOT fire loud blanks for one reason or another. That's when you use the Gas blowback guns and have your post production guys add in flash, brass casings and gas from the ejection port (or in the case of SyFy channel original films, you use a spring airsoft gun, mime fire it and put in endless crappy CGI muzzle flashes that exceed the magazine capacity of the weapon)..... But NBC has a contract with ISS, so ALL GUNS in ALL NBC shows have to come from ISS, so one can assume that if they needed a non firing weapon, they would have just used an ISS non-gun (aka flashpaper gun). mpm

==SIG-Sauer P228==
Did anyone notice in the episode "Chuck vs. the Aisle of Terror, how after disarming the CIA informant of his cocked P228, (looked to me like it was finished with Robar Np3) Casey decocked the gun while barely glancing at it? I am not sure if this was part of the script, or a result of Adam Baldwin having used the nearly identical SIG-Sauer P229 for the past four seasons and being familiar with the system. - [[User:SIGmund|SIGmund]]

:It was a factory nickel SIG P226 (I saw the squared trigger guard), not a P228. But yes, Adam Baldwin obviously was familiar with SIGs. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

==Where can I get a SIG finsihed like that?==

I think the 229 looks awesome with polished flats, much better than factory 2 tone.

-[[user:k9870]]

:T.J.'s Custom Gun Works does it. They finished P229s in the same style for ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]''. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:51, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you
As you know im a 229 fanboy, just love them, Id like a 229R with a reduced power mainspring, and the lide flats polished like that (i dont like full out 2 tone.)

CT rubber overmold lasergrips are comfy and id get some. Useful too. And Id NP3 the barrels, leave controld alone, polishing those is too much bling. Id get a .40, with a 357 sig barrel, and a 9mm bar sto conversion barrel and mec gar p228 mags. Then a .22 conversion slide. o i could have 4 calibers in one gun.

==What does polishing slide flats require?==

Do you add a new finish on or remove old finish? Wondering what finishes it can be done to, like nitron models, roguard, etc.

==P90's==

volkovs men can be seen using P90's in season 4 episode 13 'Chuch vs the push mix'. just to let the page editors know :)

==Sig 552's==

just watched the latest episode, the female mercs can be seen using Sig 552's

==Volkoff's gun==

Looks like a double stack polymer 6 inch 1911. Only one I can think of is STI Eagle. Anybody got a caption to prove this?

[[File:Volkoff gun 2rsz.jpg|250px|thumb|none|]]

Look I'm new at uploading photos so if someone could direct me to a tutorial on how to get them the right size, make them fit in the box, etc that would be greatly appreciated. And that gun has an accessory rail underneath, you just can't see it in this picture. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]]

Section has been added, however I am beginning to question whether or not it is the 5.0 and not the 6.0? --[[User:Sergei Titov|Sergei Titov]] 23:09, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

Yup figured it out, its an STI Eagle 4.0 not 6.0 ;D --[[User:Sergei Titov|Сергей Титов, Sergei Titov]] 23:43, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

==Chuck Versus the Masquerade: SD gun of Female Officer in Volkoff's organization==

The gun drawn by the Female Officer seems to be a Steyr M9-series. Can anyone corroborate?
[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.42|72.189.150.42]]

:Yep, Steyr M9A1. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:30, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

==what is this gun?==

chuck vs the murderrr its used, striker fired had flat back of slide. Looks ruger sr-9/taurus 24/7ish in certain shots but has some front serrations?

http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/4/4e/112.jpg

:Looks like a two-tone [[Smith & Wesson SW99]] to me. It was also shown close-up in the pile of the guns, and that's what I remember thinking it was then, too. They've also had SW99s in a couple episodes now, so it would make sense if they were reusing them again in this episode. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:58, 24 March 2011 (CDT)

I was gonna say a Walther P99 but the rounded trigger guard changed my answer, so I agree with the [[Smith & Wesson SW99]]. --[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]]

==Casey's gun switch==

Is it just me or did Casey switch guns in the latest episodes, I only noticed while I was watching "Chuck vs. Agent X", but I don't recognise it, is there anyone that can identify it? -Jacco Croon-

If it's the handgun, he switched to a custom Sig Sauer P226. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]]

I wonder why he switched? Seemed rather random to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:35, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

== Post Ban Magazine? ==

I know it says it's a post ban magazine but it looks like there's not even a magazine in there on the P229 custom.

There is a magazine, if you look at the size of the gap it's too small for a magazine to go in, and if you look around the outside of the gap you can see where the magazine meets with the grip towards the back. It might look like there is no magazine but there is definitely a magazine in there. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 11:55, 24 July 2011 (CDT)

:It's definitely a post-ban magazine. SIG post-ban mags all have a base plate with a huge gaping hole that extends up into the length of the magazine and limits their capacity (and they're also shorter in length than a standard-capacity mag, which means that you can't expand their capacity simply by swapping the base plates). You can see a picture of one [http://www.nelsontactical.com/products/images/sig/226-9mm-10Rd.jpg here]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 12:25, 24 July 2011 (CDT)

That image also explains where the design of the SIG Sauer P226 airsoft magazines came from. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:08, 24 July 2011 (CDT)

== Trigger Discipline ==

All I have to say on this subject is Bravo. It's not often you see many people on a TV show exercising trigger discipline but this show seems to have it down. I'm surprised but glad.--[[User:bristow8411|bristow8411]]

== Chuck vs. The First Bank of Evil, Chuck vs. The Cougars ==

I think imfdb needs a screenshot of Sarah using two Steyr SPPs during the bank heist in Macau. Along side Chuck using two Hi Capa Baby WE Trank Guns. Here is a youtube clip of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2KCknsox6Q

In Chuck vs. the Cougars, the Russian thugs are seen carrying suppressed Makarovs. Editors please note. Thank You :) --Сергей Титов

== Barcode Gun ==

Is it just me or does the handgun hidden in the barcode scanner look more like a Glock variant than a SIG? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]]
:Yeah it's a Glock. 17 would be my guess. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 00:22, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

===Intersect Glasses===

The creation of Manoosh in "Chuck vs. The Nacho Sampler". Created by remnants of the destroyed Intersect 2.0; Intersect glasses are also used in "Chuck vs. The Cliffhanger''.

[[File:Intersect-Glasses.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Claimed to turn a wimp into a Kung Fu master.]]

[[File:MorganIntersectGlasses.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Intersect glasses intended for Chuck from General Beckmann, accidentally worn by Morgan transforming him into the new intersect in S4E24 "Chuck vs. The Cliffhanger".]]

[[File:ChuckSeason5CastPromotionalPictures JoshuaGomez 2.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Morgan with the Glasses.]]

== 226 ==

A pictures of Casey's new 226 would be nice. Just saying.

Well Mr Anonymous why don't you create an account and screencap them yourself instead of trying to get other people to do it for you. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 02:03, 1 November 2011 (CDT)

== Sarah's Compact Pistol Continuity ==

Here's some pics of the pistol Sarah pulls from her purse in "Chuck Versus the Role Models". If another user can give definitive ID's in order to correct the page, it would be greatly appreciated. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:49, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
[[File:ChuckS3 61.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:Chuck 29.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:ChuckCloset950.JPG|thumb|none|300px|]]
[[File:Sarah950stance.JPG|thumb|none|300px|]]
[[File:Strahovski-ep315-037.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]
[[File:ChuckS3 63.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:ChuckS3 25.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:ChuckS3 24.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

== Lack of Holsters ==

It seems weird that for all being professional spys that all of the major characters just tuck their guns into the waist band of their pants unless they are in tactical gear or sarah has hers in her purse. It seems weird that with options like in the waste band holsters they wouldn't use them. I could see how chuck might not know about this kinda stuff but it seems surprising for sarah and extremely surprising for a gun enthusiast like casey.--[[User:Afpnj03|Afpnj03]] 18:24, 12 November 2011 (CST)

I never realised that until you pointed it out. You would expect at least Casey would use a holster for his SIG... --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 19:44, 12 November 2011 (CST)

They are always carrying them concealed. When they are unconcealed Casey keeps his in a titanium case, and Sarah keeps her 5906 wherever. they probably have concealed waistband holsters, or just none at all because for the instances where they are concealed... they won't be concealed for long. --[[User:Sergei Titov|Сергей Титов, Sergei Titov]] 21:49, 12 November 2011 (CST)

Sarah definitely doesn't have a waistband holster, several times it's just tucked in her trousers. Not even a IWB holster which would be a lot safer than just sticking it in her trousers. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 09:28, 13 November 2011 (CST)

I only really noticed it when chuck first gets his via job in season 3 and goes to beck mans office and the gun falls out of the back of his pants, and at that point i realized who weird it was that none of them had holsters and that the via/nsa didn't issue them or something.--[[User:Afpnj03|Afpnj03]] 14:15, 13 November 2011 (CST)

==Split into seasons?==

Seriously, this page is well past due. For a show that's on its fifth season and features such a ridiculous number of firearms, this page needed to be split up ages ago. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:04, 13 December 2011 (CST)

Usually I would say yes, but I would recommend NOT doing it because this is the last season and the series isn't adding a massive amount of new guns. Also there's a lot of overlap of guns between seasons. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:55, 13 December 2011 (CST)

:Overlap of guns does not mean that we don't create new pages for the different seasons when they get to be THIS long. Same applies to the show ending. This page is just too huge, and I'm not even sure it's complete (off the top of my head, I can recall at least a half-dozen other types of firearms from the show that haven't been included here, and I am sure that there are many, many more). I think it needs to be split up. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:20, 13 December 2011 (CST)

::Actually, let me re-phrase that: The issue isn't so much missing weapons so much as missing documentation of who used what. I don't know the hell anyone missed the fact that Jill ([[Jordana Brewster]]) used the [[Smith & Wesson 3913#Smith & Wesson 3913 "Ladysmith"|Smith & Wesson 3913 "Ladysmith"]] as her sidearm in Season 2 (I remember there was even a very good close-up of it in the first episode where she used it). The page only documents that gun's brief appearance in Season 1. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:29, 13 December 2011 (CST)

:::Yeah I didn't want to split up Miami Vice at first, but it damn sure made things easier when it was. Viewing and loading are way easier. Overlap? The only major overlap you get is the main characters sidearms. This page is 90k, it shouldn't be more than 30k. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:39, 13 December 2011 (CST)

::::Well, if someone wants to split it up then, go right ahead. If there are any more missing weapons, please specify what episode they're seen in. You can see that a lot of the screenshots are marked with what episode they are in. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:51, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== caseys Sig ==

i was just looking on the Mr. and Mrs. Smith page and i believe that the sig on that page is the same as Casey's any ideaS?[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Hawaii Five-0 (2010) - Season 2

2011-10-19T23:02:59Z

Dirtdiver6421: Fryer's Glock

== Fryer's Glock ==

the page has HPD Captain Vince Fryers Glock registered as a G17. i believe that the bore looks a bit to big to be a 9mm. any thoughts [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 18:02, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Glock pistol series

2011-10-18T01:37:10Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Glocks in shooters */ new section

2 Glocks (.45?) play prominet roles in the movie "Fracture" starring Anthony Hopkins. Don't know the model so I didn't edit the main page ([[Special:Contributions/80.121.38.199|80.121.38.199]] 18:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC))

__TOC__ 

==Other Glock Variations==
===Screen-Used===
[[Image:IMFDB P00261 Sopranos Tony Soprano Glock 19.jpg|thumb|none|350px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Glock 19 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor [[James Gandolfini]] in '''[[The Sopranos]]'''. More detailed images and purchasing information on this item can be found at [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00261&Store_Code=TGC&search=Sopranos+Glock&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= here].]]
[[Image:P00650 Glock Full Left.jpg|thumb|350px|none|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Glock 19 - 9x19mm. This non-firing prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film '''[[The Other Guys]]''', and was carried by [[Will Ferrell]] in the film. The gun is accompanied by the Galco belt holster also used in numerous scenes throughout the film.]]
[[Image:P00613.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Screen used Glock 19 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The gun has been modified to fire blank rounds only. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00613&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:MattDUlt.jpg|thumb|350px|none|The actual screen-used 3rd generation Glock 17 - 9mm from ''[[The Bourne Ultimatum]]''. This weapon was actually handled and fired by [[Matt Damon]]. Note the damage on the rail.]]

===Other Images===
[[Image:Glock_12892-1-.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 OD Green - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Evolution.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Suppressed Glock 17 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:BruniGAP-178mm.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Bruni GAP Glock 17 blank firing stage prop - 8mm blank]]
[[Image:Glock17RAM4.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 RAM - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:CAA.Tactical-RONI-G1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 - 9x19mm mounted in a CAA Tactical RONI-G1.]]
[[Image:Pistol Austrian Glock 18 with 31 round magazine.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 18C with a 19 and 31 round magazine - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Glock22left.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Glock 22 (2nd Generation) left side - .40 S&W.]]
[[Image:G17-1x400.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 3rd Generation with SureFire x400 attachment and extended 19-round magazine - 9x19mm. Similar to the gun used by [[Shemar Moore]] in ''[[Criminal Minds]]'']]

== Longslide versions get their own Glock Model Numbers? ==

It seems kind of odd to me as to why variations of Glock pistols available with longer barrels have their own unique model numbers. Many gun websites I've been to don't seem to list such customizations with their own unique model numbers (except maybe in inventory listings or the like), but rather just mention that a particular model of pistol has a longer barrel version available. Is such a practice just for convenient reference? To satisfy customer preferences? Or for some other reason?

By the way, I appreciate all the hard work the people here have done in identifying the various Glock pistols used in the media on this site. I'd find it pretty hard myself, since barring obvious visual differences like how to tell a full-size Glock from a subcompact one apart, I wouldn't be able to tell a G17 from a G22 without seeing the number on the slide in a movie, for instance, since they look substantially the same. Something like trying to tell a G22 from a G20 would also be quite difficult without hearing a character in a movie say its caliber out aloud or seeing the number on the slide, since they are chambered for similarly-sized cartridges. I don't think its entry on the date of this comment is correct--the real-life US Marshals use Glocks chambered for .40 S&W, not 10mm Auto.

About the only exception to the aforementioned practice on Glock's end is the Glock 20, which apparently now has a factory-made longslide version (not the aftermarket ones), but to my knowledge does not have a unique Glock model number. Can someone fill me in on this? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 06:15, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

== The "Glock invisible"-nonsense ==

Here's what Hugh Laurie (yes, the "House M. D."-guy) had to say about that in his novel "The gun seller":
"You may have read, at one time or another, some of the nonsense that’s been written about the Glock. The fact that its body is made from a fancy polymer material got one or two journalists very excited a while back about the possibility that the gun might not register on airport X-ray machines - which happens to be so much hooey. The slide, barrel, and a fair portion of its innards are metal, and if that weren’t enough, seventeen rounds of Parabellum ammunition are pretty hard to pass off as lipstick refills. What it does have is a high magazine capacity for a low weight, great accuracy, and virtually unequalled reliability. All of which have made the Glock 17 the choice of housewives everywhere."
Dr. House, I couldn't agree more.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 22:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I have to admit that my whole perspective of Glock changed when they sued Smith & Wesson over the Sigma. I mean, they make more money from their handguns than any other company in the world and then they go and sue someone. The Glocks design is so simple it resembles every handgun, you might as well sue them all. I see the similarities but they are easily telled apart. Not a cool thing to do Glock, I wish you hadn't stooped down like that.

== 'Resembles Every Handgun' ==

"The Glocks design is so simple it resembles every handgun, you might as well sue them all."

It only resembles every handgun, because almost every brand has a Glock copy now. There wasn't anything like it back in 1982 when it was released. Back then its main competitors were the 1911, S&W 39, Berreta 92 and various wheel guns. Gunner313
Not to mention that S&W didn't just copy the Glock design they cloned it with parts that would fit into a Glock body, with potentially disastrous consequences.

A copy is a near exact of something. The S&W Sigma is the only Glock copy. The rest are just polymer pistols.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:29, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I think he mans that is so genaric and non-descript in apperance that it has gained the status of being the genaric
icon for "pistol" among the populous, especially laymans.
An example being that I asked my parents (who know nothing of guns) to draw their interpretation of a pistol, what they drew was inescapeably a glock-like design.
I think this is because its basically just a rectangular prism with a very simple handguard on it, also its common use by police give it a good possition in the public eye even for those who avoid movies and other media for whatever reason.
Compaired to other self loading pistols the only competition I can see it having is the Beretta 92 serise of guns, also yes I think your point is very valad - other companies making sudo-glocks means that their image is even more common and that the layman will associate the image of a glock less with glocks and more with the term "pistol".
- annon

==Durability==
:Does anyone else find it ironic that Glock's are nigh indestructable but feel really fragile?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 23:05, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
The Glocks I've fired, for the most part, don't feel extremely fragile. Sure, they don't have that 'all metal heft' that some other handguns have, which makes them lighter, and conceivably more fragile feeling, but none of mine have never felt like they would shatter if I dropped them. I might be misunderstanding what you mean, though. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 21:39, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
:It just about takes a nuclear blast to destroy one, but at the same time it feels like I could cruch it with my bare hands-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I've never noticed them feeling fragille, but that could be because I can't get over how friggin' UNCOMFORTABLE they are to hold. I'm not trying bash glocks here, they just don't fit my hand. At all.--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 00:48, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

==Catastrophic Failure ==
The Portland, Oregon police department stopped offering the .45 Glock 21 as an option for Officers to carry on duty after two incidents in which the weapons exploded in the hands of the range master during testing. Afterwards reports came in from across the country of similar incidents with the Glock 21. Do all Glocks chambered for powerful cartridges (.45, 10mm) have this problem or is it just the Glock 21? Furthermore do all Glock 21s have this issue or were these just a few rare accidents? I don't particularly like Glock pistols but never considered them dangerous (at least to the user) before hearing about these incidents.
-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Hmm. Given the problems that PPB has given Glock in the past (back in the early nineties they commented that "PBB is one of those customers we can't seem to ever make happy") I'm not surprised they blame the company rather than themselves. They also refused to fly to Smyrna to allow Glock to examine one of the pistols; they also refused to allow Glock to remove even one of the allegedly defective pistols for lab tests. The PPB also failed to submit either of the pistols for independent testing, despite stating that it would.

If there was a design flaw it would have shown up '''long''' before now. Glock has ~65% of the US LEA market, mostly in .40 and while the "Short and Weak" isn't nearly as powerful as 10mm Auto, it's generally loaded to higher pressures than .45 ACP

I've used the G20 and G29 (both chambered for the far more powerful 10mm Auto round) for years and haven't had a gun explode or do anything worse that FTE when used with poor ammunition. A few years back we torture tested one with 15,000rds in a single day, it didn't explode.

It's not just .45 and 10mm. I've personally seen a glock 17 explode with factory ammo. Not a pretty sight. --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 00:55, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

== Portland Police and it's standards ==

The Portland Police Bureau is a strange department. I've known experienced officers who have tried to get on with the PPB only to be told that they didn't meet Portland's criteria. In a couple cases they were experienced Oregon certified officers from neighboring cities. One of them spent a year in Kosovo with the U.N. civil police training task force. It's a strange city with an odd police administration. I've known a few good cops who work for Portland, but overall I'm glad that I never applied with the PPB.Ultimately I believe the politics of that part of Oregon would have driven me crazy.Very very LEFT WING. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:40, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

It's only certain Glock models that do it. I've noticed it a lot on the .40 S&W models such as the 22 or 23. The problem is that in order to increase more reliable feeding as well as to make the gun cycle more reliably, Glocks have more of their chambers cut away, which leaves parts of the case unsupported. They count on the casing to hold in the powder load. I think it happens mostly on the larger cartridges such as 10mm Auto, .40 S&W or .45ACP. Haven't heard of it happening on any of the .45GAP models though. I'm personally not a big fan of Glock pistols. I don't find them very visually appealing and I hate the lack of a manual safety. And I really, really dislike the trigger they make on it. They need to take off the little lever in the trigger, and just go to a solid double action trigger and put a manual safety on it. I'm a 1911 man, but I think there are many other designs that are better than Glock's. For example, Sig Sauer or H&K. Or Springfield's XD series. S&W Sigma. I mean the list goes on and on. I won't buy a Glock for the reasons I mentioned above. Right now, all I own are 1911s and one H&K USP .45.

:I'm a bit confused. You say that you do not like Glock pistols because you find them unattractive and you prefer a manual safety, both of which are valid reasons. But then you claim that designs from SIG Sauer, H&K USP, the Springfield XD, and the S&W Sigma -- all of which, save for a few specialty models, do not have a manual safety -- are superior to the Glock design. That just doesn't make sense. It's perfectly fine to dislike Glock pistols, but to claim that they are inferior to other designs for lacking a manual safety, when those very other designs also lack manual safeties, is rather odd. [[Special:Contributions/68.39.83.179|68.39.83.179]] 22:07, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

::I've only had hands-on experience with the Glock 21 myself. Me and my sister shot one on my birthday this year, and she had the Glock malfunction on her too, albeit not nearly as severely as the incidents mentioned above. She pulled the trigger and the weapon failed to discharge. When I cleared the chamber, I found that the pin had missed the primer and struck the back of the casing. After that though we didn't have any further problems with the weapon, that being the only round out of 50 we put through the Glock 21 that had a misfire. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:19, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Not sure on the Sigma, but the XD has a grip safety, and most sigs have de-cockers. I don't know if those meets your definition of 'manual safety', but they're certainly more than glock has.--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 15:40, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

==Glock 18==
what would a fully automatic pistol be used for? VIPs protection and CQC
There was a fad for such machine pistols (VP-70 and M-93R for other examples).

But the Personal defense weapon have taken this firearm nitch and more. Rex095

Sort of like lasers when they first came out.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:24, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

what do you mean? about the lasers

Lasers were thought to be the end-all substitute for irons yet now they are just seen as a gimmick.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:32, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's not really a gimmick today. People still use lasers to aim, distract someone by aiming at their eyes and for small frame guns where the iron sights are bad, like a pocket gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:57, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

== Generation 4 Glocks ==

I realized that the page is laking the Gen 4 Glock 17 and Gen 4 Glock 22 --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 17:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Added the Gen 4 model for Glock 22--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 17:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

:The picture you posted is not a 4th Generation Glock; it is an RTF (Rough Texture Frame) model, which is not the same thing. The main difference between the 4th Gen Glocks and older models is that they now have removable backstraps. And anyway, we don't need the picture until we know they've appeared in movies (and at the rate armorers buy new pistols, no time soon.) IMFDB's policy is that we don't need a picture of every variant of a gun that has ever existed (at least not on the gun's page), and ''especially'' if it hasn't appeared in anything yet. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Well that and the fact that the 4th Generation also has a captive recoil spring, but of course how in the hell do you show that? Shot a 4th Gen G17 today at the range. Very nice. Recovery is all that much faster. I was impressed. The company will be coming out with the 4th Gen G19 in a month or so. However the 4th Gen G21SF isn't due out until next year. Sorry 45 acp mafia. I was talking to one of the corporate guys so I feel confident that he knows what he's talking about. Anyway just some nice to know trivia.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 05:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

== Glock 34 ==

Just looking at the section for the [[Glock 34]], only [[End of Days]] and [[Man on Fire]]. In both movies, It's used by the Main Character to attempt suicide. That's gonna be a good ad campaign: "''When You Can't Go On Anymore, Reach For Your Glock 34''"

==1st Generation==
Did the first generation of Glock pistols feature anything other than the Glock 17? I've seen second and third generation versions of nearly every model, but the only first generation pistols I've ever seen are Glock 17s. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

A small number of first generation Glock 19's were made. - [[User:Right Wing Gun Nut|Right Wing Gun Nut]]

It should have only been in the glock 17...and you shouldn't see one easily because they didn't meet ATF regulation until the generation 2.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 22:25, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

What reg did they not meet?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:34, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

:1st Gen Glock 19s do exist, but they're very rare, because Glock went to the checkered front/backstraps on all of its pistols shortly after production began. Also, the Glock 17L and Glock 18 both exist in 1st generation incarnations (though they're also pretty rare). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:04, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

::So there were other 1st generation models than the 17, but were all 1st generation guns 9mms? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

To meet American ATF regulations, a steel plate with a stamped serial number was embedded into the dust cover in front of the trigger guard for generation 2. I have seen no evidence of a first generation glock being in any other model than the 17. Even the people that claim they have a generation 1 glock 19 still only show pictures of a generation 2...so i would need to see proof on anything other model being in generation 1. but my knowledge is limited to what's available in the normal U.S.A. for some glock models are not legal to have in the states.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:55, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

:Gen 1 Glock 19s do exist. Check out [http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887305 this topic] from GlockTalk. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

==Other models==
Why were the models that were removed before put back? I thought IMFDB didn't allow sections for variants of a gun that haven't appeared in any media. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::See Stan's post below, and also the Glock 20 that was deleted actually WAS in something. When we went to link it, surprise, it wasn't there because it had been removed. Not a good thing. Any SERIES of guns, do not remove the interim gun series entries ever. They are there for continuity in the SERIES of models. The only guns we remove are the weird single gun entries that some member jacked off of google and won't appear in a movie, etc. ever, and if they do, only then do we create the page. The only exception is guns that are in active armorer inventory NOW. That means that there is a much HIGHER chance of them being seen, and we need the gun pics to help members positively ID them. Hope this helps. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:51, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::When the Glock variants were initially deleted I mentioned that having gaps in the list of different models seemed odd, yet those who deleted them responded that any weapons or variants of weapons that have not appeared in media are subject to deletion. I like that the different variants have been restored to the list, I was just curious as to what the procedure was for guns that are variants of weapons that have appeared in films though that specific variant had not since I had heard conflicting information. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::::- Yeah, that was me. I found it irksome to have several models (mainly new ones), that weren't listed or even linked to anything, it was annoying to me. I still think that in regards to the newest 30 model guns, but that's just me. BUT, as MPM said, they are still standard guns of the same series, and many are in inventory, so they'll be used in something eventually (If indeed they haven't already and we just don't have pages, etc). I think the main problem was getting rid of older guns like the 20 that are ''definitely'' in stuff already and should be there accordingly. A couple of the other guns are also linked to pages but just don't have them listed - I'll go ahead and add the listing(s) myself if they're listed on complete pages and/or positively ID'd. Otherwise, you could just say they're being proactive. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:23, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

-Original Reply- 
I replaced the sections I previously deleted by request of MoviePropMaster2008. Essentially they are for reference right now. However, there are also a sort of placeholder as well - MPM has stated on other pages that such guns are in movie inventory, so eventually they'll get listings/entries - As such, the sections are to remain so that they don't have to be re-created later. A couple of the guns are already linked on pages I believe, but the pages may not be complete or they may not be listed for some other reason. I did remove them because at the time they weren't featured in anything, but it really wasn't my call to remove them in the first place. (EDIT - removed MPM's paraphrased personal message to me, as he posted himself). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:36, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

::I should point that I am highly skeptical of some of the Glocks IDs that are supposedly [[Glock 20]]s. The episode of ''[[Psych]]'' in which [[John Cena]] supposedly uses a Glock 20 is wrong; I've seen that episode, and he uses a Glock 17L. I'm equally doubtful that the Glock 20 appears in Season 4 of ''[[24]]''. Since we know that (as a rule) movie armorers rarely use any Glocks that aren't 9x19mm, I can't help but wonder if people are going to be tempted to mis-identify Glocks if they see these other variants on the page. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Fair enough, and I'm not defending some of these questionable attributions, but I had to replace a pic for a VIDEO game where the gun was a specific variant of weapon (and was specifically NAMED in the game as an off caliber variant), so we still needed the section. Also foreign helmed films don't have the ammo biases that we in the States do ;) the sheer CHANCE that folks will mis-identify the gun is not reason enough to NOT have the section. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:44, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

:::- Well, in the case of those shows, I'll remove the TV subsection until they're confirmed. I will put in the VG entries, though, as they aren't questionable. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

::::Whoa whoa whoa STOP!!!!! Don't remove ANYTHING!!! IMFDB users should look long and hard and try to correctly ID guns, but for now just creating a BLANK space is unacceptable. What is WITH this rush to delete everything all of a sudden? If you don't have correct info to replace it with, DON'T DELETE IT! YOu can put a disclaimer on the various discussion pages (that there may be a question as to whether or not the gun ID is correct), but I dont' want to start seeing blocks of empty space. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:47, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

::- Uh, wait a minute, the only thing I removed was the TV section for the Glock 20, and that's it. Nothing else. Most of the gun sections I replaced from the other day were '''already blank''' - they didn't have anything before. Again, the TV listing subsection for the Glock 20 section was the '''only''' thing I've removed since I put all the other guns back, and I've since already restored it. Outside of that and adding some subsections to a couple of the guns, I haven't touched the rest of the page. Not trying to give ya a headache MPM, but I really haven't done that much this time, honest. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:45, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I was just reeling from the previous Glock debacle where I spent an entire morning rephotographing a Glock variant, only to realize later that it had been previously there, but deleted. My brain is still traumatized ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:53, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
::- Yeah, I still feel real bad about that.. I'll probably never live that down. Bah. ;b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:59, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

==First appearance==
I remember one of our movie pages pointing out that that film was the first appearance of a Glock Pistol in a movie. Does anyone know which movie that was because I can't remember.

: Don't know. The earliest-set movie page I can immediately spot a Glock (Glock 17) on is [[To Live and Die in L.A.]] (1985), but I'm not certain if that is it. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

That's not it. We have a page of a movie from the early 80s where the page explicitly states that this is the first appearance of a Glock in film.

:
::I'm pretty skeptical that ''[[To Live and Die in L.A.]]'' features a Glock, because they were not being imported to this country for the civilian market at the time the movie was filmed. Though I guess I'd have to see the movie to be sure. Season 3 of ''[[Miami Vice - Season 3|Miami Vice]]'' featured a Glock 17 in one episode (which was used by [[Don Johnson]]), and that's the earliest documented appearance of a Glock that we have on this site so far besides ''To Live and Die in L.A.''.

::''We have a page of a movie from the early 80s where the page explicitly states that this is the first appearance of a Glock in film.''

::Which page? I just checked all of the pages which feature our 1st gen Glock 17 picture, and didn't see any movies from the early-80s. Also, I'm skeptical because the first Glock 17s available to civilians didn't start coming into the U.S. until 1985, so it's pretty much impossible for any movie/TV show filmed before that to feature a Glock (unless it was filmed in Europe or some other country where Glocks were available sooner). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:15, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:::- Not to increase the load, but it might be worth checking under the second gen picture also. After all, not pages pages use the accurate gun picture, whether because they didn't know about the specific differences/generation release dates when they made the page or because the Gen 1 picture wasn't actually around and no one updated the thumbnail. Just a thought. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:49, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:::I have tried watching To Live and Die in L.A. and get a better cap, it just looks like a black gun to me. [[Johnny Handsome]] featured a Glock, it was released in '89. There's got to be a film before that. That Miami Vice episode aired Jan '87. Good idea about checking the 2nd gen pic. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:47, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

::::Point taken on the 2nd Gen G17 pic, I forgot about that. But I don't envy the person who has to sort through all the pages on which it appears (nearly 250 in total, last I looked). But I can still tell y'all that you're highly unlikely to see a Glock in any movie made before 1985, for the reason I mentioned earlier. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:10, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:: That's not even counting those that ''don't'' have a gun image, or.. well, you get the point. Bah. I'm afraid we may not find out what page it is, unless Anon's memory gets better. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:44, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:::I just checked all of the page links for all three Glock 17 images. So far, I can't find any movies or TV shows other than the ones mentioned previously that have featured Glocks. Of course, there is still the possibility that somebody forgot to put ''any'' image for some movie that featured a Glock, but I imagine we'd have caught that by now.

:::So, I have reached the following conclusion:

:::*Season 3 of ''[[Miami Vice - Season 3|Miami Vice]]'' is the first media appearance of a Glock 17, movie or TV.
:::*''[[Johnny Handsome]]'' is the first known movie to feature a Glock 17.

:::Unless someone finds any earlier appearances (and has the screencaps to prove it), these are the first media appearances of Glocks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

: Well, it's a page done by Pred, and the section says 'one of the earliest appearances of a Glock', so that's probably what Anonymous was talking about. If not, then we need to kill him for even bringing this up. :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that is the page I was talking about, I just couldn't remember it. Please don't kill me. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::: Sure, but only because you said please. Mystery solved then? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

::Wow look at that, I don't even like Glocks. I don't know if either of you two have seen Johnny Handsome. The gun dealer gave a little explanation about the gun, made in Austria, plastic etc. I just glad it beat Die Hard 2. When I wrote the comment I figured another film had to have featured it before JH that's why I said one of the earliest uses not the first. Unless another comes up with an appearance before JH, [[Mickey Rourke]] has both the first usage of the Desert Eagle and Glock in a film.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:06, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright I changed both the pages. If someone has better wording to use, go for it. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:20, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

== Removal of Variants that have not been seen in media ==

I was just re-reading the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page and was wondering if anyone has a problem removing the Glock models 24, 28, 29, and 37 - 39 as they have yet to appear in any movies/anime/games. It looks like alot of effort was put into this page so I just want check before making any changes.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:08, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Good thing you asked, since I would have been pretty pissed at you if you made such a major change without checking first.''' We've had this come up before. A previous member took it upon himself to remove a Glock variant which has not listed, and then, BEHOLD! it was obviously apparent in some movie or tv listing, so ANOTHER member, seeing that we didn't have the section (it had been deleted) copied a jacked GOOGLE image of the gun and re-created the section. I, seeing a CRAP google image thought "hmmm, I could have sworn I photographed that type of Glock for this page already", so I spent the entire morning rephotographing that model of Glock for the Glock page. When I tried to re-upload the photo, IMFDB warned me that this photo already existed. I was "WTF?" By tracking down the history of the page, I tracked down the member who DELETED the glock section and admonished them that it was just creating problems, since a few days AFTER he deleted it, the model appeared in something. So the rule is: DON'T REMOVE ANY VARIANTS on ANY PAGE, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE MPM MOVIE ARMORY PHOTOGRAPHS (which were done specifically FOR IMFDB). Thanks for your attention in this matter :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:56, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:I would leave it, Glocks are hard to tell apart sometimes. So it's good to have all the models on the page for reference. It's not like a user creating an entire new page for a gun that hasn't appeared.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 06:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Damn propmaster no need to yell man. There's a reason I asked in here first. Maybe you should add the blurb about not removing variants pictured by armorers in the rules section. That's the only reason I brought up the question in the first place.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:29, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It's not yelling, it's emphasizing. And sorry if it seemed that way. As for the emphasis, it was for all members. You at least asked, but I must emphasize again, if any member MUST do something, try adding to lame pages, resist the temptation to delete other people's work. Leave that to the mods, unless its something ridiculous. MPM

== Numbers ==
Anyone know how Glock comes up with the numbers for their handguns?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:18, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

They are in the order that they were released...starting with the model 17 for it was the 17th patient to get it what it is today. But some people say that the original name came because it holds 17rds then in the order they were released--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 22:15, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

:Another theory is, if Wikipedia is to be believed, that the Austrian army set out a list of 17 requirements when they were looking for a new pistol to replace the Walther P38. In order for any pistol to be considered for the trials, it had to pass all 17 requirements. The Glock was called the 17 because it was designed specifically with thes standards in mind. Even if this isn't the source of the name, it's still an amusing coincidence. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

== Glock 30 & Glock 36 ==

Can someone explain the Difference between the Glock 30 and Glock 36. They both look like Sub-Compact Glocks in 45. ACP. [[Image:Glock30.jpg|thumb|200px|none|Glock 30 .45 ACP]][[Image:Glock36.jpg|thumb|200px|none|Glock 36 .45 ACP]]
:Glock 36 is a single stack, Glock 30 is a double stack. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:21, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

== 18 vs 18C? ==

Just wondering, is there any difference between the Glock 18 and Glock 18C? I think the proper name is 18C, but correct me if I'm wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:26, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:The C models include a built-in compensator, noted by a rectangular slot cut out in the top-front section of the slide. And yes, 18C is the correct name. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

== Full Auto? ==

Can other Glock pistols be converted to fire in full-auto, like the Glock 17-impersonating-Glock 18? Specifically, the 19 and 21 models? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 18:21, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

== Glocks in shooters ==

hey yall i was just wondering if you knew if their were any FPS games that included a normal glock. when i say normal i mean all minus the 18, it is a ridiculous gun and has very little practical use. my preference is the Glock 21 but i would like to no if there is any notable games that have any model (minus 18) thanks. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:37, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-10-18T01:24:37Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* semi-unrelated note */ new section

==Discussion==

Oh God, another Call of Duty. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:05, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

AK74su-type(AKS-74u)weapon in screenshot as well as FN FAL similar to the one in Modern Warfare 2.

Visible in this screenshot

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/prague_resistance_rioter_civ_02.jpg

Also, there's some type of Sig Sauer pistol in this screenshot on the chest

http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/sas_lmg.jpg

Looks like the M18 Smoke Grenade returns. -[[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:07 AM (EST)

I see a P90 lying on the floor in the premiere trailer, in what appears to be a subway station. Appears to follow the MW2 Design, with the iron sights instead of a built in red dot. -[[User:Timaman]] May 24, 2011 22:09 PM GMT+0

http://timaman.deviantart.com/art/Possible-P90-in-Mw3-210170147

I noticed what appears to be a holstered Colt 1911 on the UMP wielding SAS members right leg, you can see it just above where the picture finishes, at the bottom. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:08, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

:I saw that too, hopefully the MW1 1911 comes back, it better, but it also looks like it could be a P226 with wierd lighting. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

I hope they put an ejection port on the M4 this time.

== Title ==

This page should be moved to "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" since that is the official title. Don't let the "Modern Warfare 2" page confuse you, that's fucked up also. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:49, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I also think that the title should be the official title, so I already changed it. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:40, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

==Issues==

We have no confirmation from anyone that any of these images are legit. Should this page even exist? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't see any evidence proving to the contrary either. We'll live, if it's not legit, then it'll be taken off. Seems like an insanely elaborate hoax to basically render half of a game's weapon arsenal and create a ton of concept art, in addition to the images of the NPC skins and such. You could be right, but, in all likelihood... this is a leak of legitimate information.

If it is legit though, how do we know it's final? This could be a deliberate leak of outdated info and models. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:11, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

Even if it isn't final, it's still worthwhile to put in. The G3 was in a trailer for Modern Warfare 2, and the last time I checked, it was still on the imfdb page.

There is a update to this Modern Warfare 3 leak. Robert Bowling of Infinity Ward tweeted this: "A lot of hype & a lot of leaked info on #MW3, some still accurate, some not. To avoid spoiling the experience, I'd wait for the real reveal." So I'm guessing the leak IS legitimate [[User:SeanWolf]]

Well, as much as I think Bowling is a self-absorbed hipster, this is good. I assume the "tangible" pics and stuff like that are more concrete than some of the story details and map names "Plaza 2", was probably changed/cut. Either way, good for identifying stuff.

Oh god, the KSG. Here's hoping they use both of that weapon's mag tubes instead of restricting you to only one of them --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 23:02, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I am a huge fan of the KSG. Yeah, I really agree with you there. Though, in the previous Modern Warfares, they've limited the M1014 to the capacity of a KAC Masterkey for balancing purposes. Wouldn't get my hopes up.

:My biggest fear with the KSG is how IW or whoever is really making it will make the KSG act in-game. My thought process tells me "Somehow, I think their gonna make it fire like a double barrelled shotgun, two shots at the same time". Given IW's creditability and COD's inaccuracy with real world weapons in game, this to me seems like a likely possibility. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:38, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, but, would it really be that noticeable? I mean, what would be the difference over firing one round? It's still a pump-action, so regardless, you'd still have to rack the pump back. They didn't make the Ranger shotgun or the Olympia fire both rounds at the same time, they're double barreled as well.
:You actually got two firing triggers when you use a single Ranger --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:12, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Which is plausible, because it has two triggers on the real-world model. On the KSG, IF, big IF, they made it fire two rounds at the same time for some reason, they'd probably operate under the assumption that you're switching tubes between each shot. I don't know, just giving IW the benefit of the doubt for now. They don't seem to have messed up with any of their modern shotguns except in the realm of magazine capacity.

I might be the only one, but whats up with that weird aimpoint/ holographic sight combo on the M4? is that even possible?
: Yes, it is. EoTech makes [http://www.eotech-inc.com/product.php?id=50&cat=1 optics] specifically designed to be used in conjunction with their holosights. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:59, 28 May 2011 (CDT)
cool, I never knew that. Thanks

==Winchester Model 1887==
What in the name of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit did they do to that shotgun. *Pukes all over keyboard*. I mean, I love CoD as much as the next person (I just look past the mistakes (Russians with Tavors, and TDI Vectors)), but THAT just looks ridiculous!!! - [[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:09 AM (EST)

I mean, it's the "CoD Universe", IW can make the Russians use whatever weapons they want. It's no different/worse than Special Operations personnel using MP5k airsoft replicas [They did in MW2], or using MG4's for that matter, and ACR's. Call of Duty was never intended to be a military simulator, even less so starting to really become obvious with MW2 [A US Army General firing a revolver on the front lines]. However, on topic, the 1887 never should've been in the game in my opinion. There are plenty of shotguns, and IW seems to just copy and paste things from movies rather than being original. As for the depiction in MW3, at least they made the 1887 unique. Granted, it's silly, but for a game weapon... it's much more fitting to "tacticalize" it.
:Also as far as multiplayer is concerned, the removal of the enlarged loop means that you will no longer be able to flip cock it, therefore no longer able to dual wield... unless IW does it anyway which means that technically the player would be breaking their fingers every time they do a flip cock. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 17:10, 18 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, gonna' have to side with you on that one. IW showers in the over the top, unoriginal, borderline plagiarism from popular movies. There's no logical advantage for them to include the 1887 unless it's able to be dual wielded. But, like you said, they may have tacticalized it to be a "modern lever-action shotgun", whilst taking out the dual wield capability. We'll see.
:I'd rather see them give us a nice lever-action rifle than the 1887 again. Not enough games have them, and it's not like "the army doesn't use them" is a valid excuse in a series where a military firing range has Deagles lying around. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:54, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

I'd rather them just scrap lever actions altogether. Certainly, the argument of "The army doesn't use them" isn't really relevant, perhaps the argument "No army would even consider using it" is more fitting. But when nobody uses an overall design archetype (Lever Action) in a tactical setting, it seems silly to include it as a shotgun or not. In other words, in my opinion, lever actions have no place in Modern Warfare both the game and the concept. 1887 should've never been in MW2, because it set a precedent that it was okay to put absurdly pointless weapons in CoD games.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Several armies not only considered using them but actually did. That's rather more than the number of armies which have ever considered using the WA2000 or Desert Eagle, which last I checked was zero. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:12, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Which armies? Were they in this century? If not then it's irrelevant to the term "Modern". Most, if not all lever-action overall designs were prominent before the turn of the 20th century. No modern military uses lever-actions when they could just be using more modern semi-automatic weapons that operate on various methods (recoil/gas/etc).[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Um, Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1, and there's several modern designs like the Browning BLR. Most sniper rifles in military service are still manual actions (as opposed to marksman rifles, which are the semi-autos), they just tend to be bolt actions rather than lever or pump. Leverguns are just as common in military use as gas-operated rotating bolt pistols, $80,000 semi-auto rifles or off-axis blowback subguns (ie not), and more to the point, the setting of an invaded US means civilian weapons can be included within the setting. For example, you could have a level where you're a Marine who was on leave and only has his hunting rifle and his wits to make his way through enemy lines and assemble with his unit. Or given that such levels usually have a helper NPC, you're the Marine's kid who insisted on coming along to help fight the good fight. For bonus points, reveal halfway through the level that the kid is the Marine's daughter rather than his son; I'd pay good money to watch the forum fallout from that. "Kotick made me play as a GIRL! Now I have COOTIES!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:17, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:You do bring up a valid point, MW3 is based in an invasion US. Theoretically, they could add the civilian weapons for this reason, but CoD has always been a strictly military deal. But then again, MW2 involved an invasion US, and there were no civilian player-characters. Furthermore, "Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1", this game is not in WW1 and warfare/technology has changed quite a lot since then. There is nothing modern about the BLR's design, save for some features that make it easier to use (Moving trigger/detachable magazine), and still... it's not used by -any- military, current or otherwise. Bolt action sniper rifles are just that, bolt action, not lever action, regardless I'm talking about service rifles/shotguns not high end sniper rifles. Lever-action weapons are not common in militaries of this century (21st) by any means. Lever actions should not be included in a modern military setting, year 2000 and beyond. There are no lever actions being used by any current formal military force as far as I'm aware, certainly not the ones we're talking about (NATO countries, Russians). They've got no place in modern warfare because the design has been outclassed by others, hence why they're not used. Even in Khyber pass bootleg weapons from Pakistan/Afghanistan, or South American countries, it'd be a stretch to see them using lever-actions... the design is -that- outdated.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

::Again pointing out that no military has ever used or considered using the Desert Eagle either. Or the SPAS-12. Or the TDI Vector. Or the WA2000. CoD's weapon list has been in la-la land since we had German soldiers with StG-44s at Stalingrad in the first game and hasn't really come back since then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:00, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:For different reasons. No modern military uses lever-actions because they're outdated. Desert Eagle, should never have been in the game, not saying it should. It's not used because it's not practical. TDI Vector, it's not used because it's new and the benefits are negligeble. WA2000, it's a trophy weapon which has a price-tag of a BMW and less than 200 were built, obviously not a choice. SPAS-12, used by various militaries around the world (Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh), in addition to SWAT/SRT teams around the world. The weapons you listed are not used for various reasons, not for being antiquated technology. You can't deny that IW put the 1887 in because it was "badass" in the Terminator movie, that's the only reason. The STG44 thing doesn't bother me, seeing as it was used in WW2, which is the timeframe in which the game was set, though in limited numbers later on in real life. However, the 1887 has no purpose in game or out. The Desert Eagle, has no purpose in real-life but it does serve a role in game (High Damage sidearm with low mag capacity). Thus, the Desert Eagle is tolerable, the 1887 is just pointless. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the section is titled "Winchester Model 1887", not "Weapons that shouldn't be in the game" thus I would focus on this weapon, rather than the others in the game that shouldn't be there in my opinion. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 12:53, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not entirely sure why you're opposed to this, though; we've already got a laundry list of weapons no military would ever dream of using, so one more or less hardly matters. I'm saying I'd rather see a lever-action rifle than the 1887 again, since that would actually be a nice variation from the usual bolts and semi-autos and could be interesting for variation (levers being faster but harder to use while prone). I equally don't see the point of trolling out the antique shotgun again, this time with a stack of silly accessories on it that makes ''Black'' look positively restrained. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:50, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::A lever-action rifle would have been a great idea in Black Ops, but not in the "Modern" Warfare games where they should stick with using the correct "modern" weapons that each country actually uses, plus some other '''sensible''' new age weapons. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:33, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
:My point is that the design incorporating a lever-action, has no place in any modern military setting, at all, shotgun or rifle included. It'd be akin to using a flintlock in a modern warfare video game, it's simply outdated technology on a design level that's no longer used by modern military forces. That is why I'm opposed to it, it's not like the TDI Vector or Desert Eagle not being used (For different reasons, which I explained in depth, none of which includes an outdated design) because they are both modern weapons that incorporate modern designs. Bottom line, if you want lever-actions, play Red Dead Redemption. Granted it's a video game and not a military simulator at that but IW putting in outdated weaponry simply because it was in a movie, when they are supposed to be working with pseudo-real world operators and scenarios, is silly. The tacticalized variant as shown in MW3 is certainly a step in the right direction, if you want a pristine replica of a beautiful antique weapon, again, Call of Duty is not the appropriate place to search for such and nor should it be. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 11:12, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::In what way is it outdated? Modern lever actions fire faster than bolt actions, can use non-tube magazines (even detachable ones) and thus fire pointed bullets, and are of comparable accuracy to bolt actions. Aside from issues with firing while prone (which are hardly impossible to deal with) they're not outdated in any sense of the term, certainly not to the extent a flintlock is. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:30, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the issue of firing when prone is -highly- critical when compared to how modern-day bolt actions are used, mostly/all by snipers who fire from the prone position frequently. They are outdated as service rifles, like I said earlier in comparison to semi-automatic gas/recoil driven weapons. The main revolution of lever action was the rapid-fire aspect and magazine capacity (Compared to single-shot/clip-fed weapons of the era), which have all been outclassed by miles in reference to modern semi-automatic rifles. Like I said,''' agree to disagree''', not going anywhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::No, it's definately an issue of lack of will to do it rather than any technical inferiority. Armies are used to bolt actions in their manual rifles and don't see the need to change to weapons that have ''different'' advantages and disadvantages but don't offer a substantial overall improvement. It's hard enough persuading them to adopt things that ''do'' offer a substantial improvement, after all. Also, I have no idea why you keep bringing up semi-autos, not everything is a marksman rifle. I was never suggesting using a manual action weapon as a replacement for anything other than a ''different'' manual action. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Agreeing to disagree, could refute what you said with evidence/concepts but it's not going to do anything. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

The use of the 1887s in MW2 does make sense to some degree. a lot of countries have strict laws concerning shotguns, some even banning those that have more than two shots like Australia does. though Australia does have loopholes allowing the use of bolt action shotguns AND lever action shotguns like the beautiful model 1887 and the clones. Seeing that a piece of MW2 takes place in Brazil where the 1887s are first encountered, plus the fact that we don't know what the firearm laws are for that country in the MW2 world, and the fact that it's used by the unified Rio de Janeiro gang members who probably use whatever Brazil actually allows... then it makes complete sense. that being said, Brazil also makes many reproductions of existing brands like the Beretta 92f. One can easily argue that in the game, the country is doing the same and even making reproductions of the 1887. And since the gang is now organized, they could easily raid said weapons from the manufacturers. besides... the fact of the matter is that (atleast from what i remember)it's mostly the Brazilian gangs that use that shotgun, the only other place you can find it being under in the weapons cache while holding out in the house until all the data from the computer is transfered and that can be attributed to a person with a healthy obsession with guns...
[[User:Aztec coyote|Aztec coyote]]

==Barrett M107/M82 Error==

It seems IW thinks that there's some sort of bolt/ejection port, being visible on the left side of the receiver of the M107. As far as I know, the left side is flat and the right hand side has the bolt mechanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's like this in MW2 and not in CoD4.

To clarify, it seems that IW has made the M107 receiver open on both sides, rather than just having the bolt handle on the right. Probably should be corrected, but can be lived with. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:57, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

== Gunz ==

Is it just me or anyone else agrees that these guns are f#&king ugly? What did they do to that poor MP5A2? Not to mention the Winchester and the "AK-47". BTW the game will take place around 2012, yet the Russians will still use the "AK-47". Well, it is still better than them using U.S. guns, right? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:26, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

How do you know the game will take place in 2012? If Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare took place in 2011, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is 5 years later (2016), so how MW3, which is a direct sequel to MW2, taking place in 2012? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:39, 14 May 2011 (CDT)
:Sorry, my bad, I thought COD4 was in 2007 since it was releases in that year. I knew that MW2 was 5 years later, thats why I wrote 2012. Anyways, that won't make the difference. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:32, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Again, Call of Duty was never meant to be a military simulator. If you want realism, look at the Battlefield series and ARMA series. Call of Duty has always been a playable action movie, that happens to be based in a real-world (First 1-3, Black Ops, WaW) or fictional (Modern Warfare) war.

Russians have used AK variants since the late 1940's... that's over sixty years of use. What's so outlandish about them using it for another twenty? IW calls it an "AK-47" because that's what people identify as the general AK weapon pattern. It's a video game. How exactly is it better than them using US weapons? Many foreign nations use the AR platform, amongst other weapon systems designed in the United States. Hell, most of the United States' small arms are provided/designed by Fabrique Nationale, a Belgian company. As I said before, it's a "Call of Duty Universe", not an explicitly real world universe, IW has creative license to put whatever weapons in the hands of whatever faction they see fit.

As for the weapons, they look fine to me. Some have been tacticalized, yes, but it makes them unique to the game and in specific cases like the 1887, it makes it more plausible for an almost 130 year old weapon to be included in a Modern setting used by people who have access to better designed shotguns. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I am wondering why we don't see an 870 or a Mossberg in these games? It's weird as well that they would include a really old gun like the 1887 but none of the pump actions. And the SPAS-12 doesn't count because it's been overused in this series to death. I bet for the ACR's reload animation, they are not going to have the model press a button to release the bolt. Most likely they'll just reuse the AK reload animation and have the shooting hand reach over and rack the charging handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:17, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:For the sake of it, I do wish we could have a 870 or a Mossberg in-game, even if it was one of these "Starter" guns. I wouldn't care if it was "Tacticalized" or not, as long as it's there. I could somehow imagine in a perfect world following MW2 as an example, a Remington 870 MCS as a primary shotgun loaded with slugs and a Aimpoint Sight with the Bling Perk while using a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser that was "Tacticalized" as a secondary shotgun loaded with Buckshot. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:43, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Thank God they are bringing back a full size MP5. I am so sick of the MP5K. And what is up with the magazine on the M4? Is it supposed to be a 20 rounder or they messed up the design again? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:19, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:Amen to that! Though somewhere in the back of mind, I sometimes think they're gonna add the MP5K back in as some "other" weapon, maybe if they were to stick to MW2 styling, I could imagine it as a Machine Pistol alongside maybe the PP-2000 and TMP. Also, I can't escape the feeling that IW is gonna try and copy Treyarch in some way by trying to copy Black Op's example with the AK(S)-74U and attach a grenade launcher to it. It would be awesome all the same though. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:55, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well at this point, I've just given up on reload animations in Call of Duty. I agree, I am stoked for the full sized MP5. As for the M4, no clue, could be to balance it somehow? But, these are probably early development screens, wouldn't put it on being concrete just yet. If a MW3 forum goes up, I'll see about getting a 30 round magazine back for the M4 as I did see the MW2 M4 in a few of the screens on the Kotaku locations video. Shotguns, yeah, 870 would be lovely but... I could care less, why use a shotgun when you've got 7.62x51

Seems like they're pretty covered on the shotgun front, except for a traditional 870 style. But, I am a bit worried regarding the LMG's. None shown. Banking on the M27 IAR. CoD4, M4 with Bandolier, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact on Hardcore was my impromptu IAR class, always loved the concept. Either way, would like to see the return of a M249 variant (Mk 46/Mk 48). [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I had heard rumours that the M249 was reappearing as a "Possible" returning LMG. But I had also heard that somewhere, IW was going to make three variants of MG's featured in Multiplayer. Ranging from Light Support type weapons similar to "Black Ops", with 30 round magazines like the HK21 or RPK or just modified assault rifles with a bigger magazine, as well as other LMG's and SAW's like the M249, with GPMG's being the M240 or the M60 and finally mounted HMG's like the Browning M2 fixed into certain tactical positions.

Source? Wouldn't get my hopes up for ADDING any weapon classes, at least until I saw proof. IW tends to want to simplify things, not divide things up and add diversity. However, even if they put all of those types into the overall LMG category, would be wonderful. M27 IAR, Mk 46/48, RPD, PKM, MG3, M240L are my top choices.

However, sniper rifles are a subject of concern for me as well. MW2 including ONE bolt-action? This was a fatal flaw for me, the M40A3 was so much fun to use and the Cheytac kind of sucks. They've got a good lineup of sniper rifles here, RSASS, M107, EBR, but no bolt-action. RSASS is a good move because I've always wanted an SR-25 type weapon in CoD. They need a Russian sniper rifle of course and a few bolt actions (M40A5 or XM2010, Desert Tactical SRS (Bullpup bolt-action), and L115A3 would be all good choices). In addition, I've always wanted to see a Mk 12 SPR sniper rifle in CoD, something that did low damage but had a high magazine capacity. Would be great for Hardcore. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

very exciting looking at those leaked pics....and i gotta say its a nice line-up of guns so far...some old standard ones (M4, AK-47; M107) and some new ones i've never seen before like that KSG or the Magpul FMG (OMG the box gun from Robocop2!!!). Also i'm very glad to see the old 203 gone in favor for the newer M320! The AA-12 is cool but i didnt like it in MW2...it was just not that usefull because the boxmag so was spent within a second. the 20round drum mag would make so much more sence.
I really hope they bring back the M249, preferebly as the Mk46 or even Mk48 and introduce some new Russian MG like the PKM with the Blackwater-Rail System.
One question though: is the KSG something very special or simply a bullpup pump-action shotgun? [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 07:20, 16 May 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, again with the sporterized AK's, dont suppose they actually look at what the Russians use.

:The Russians have been looking at AK's with various rail systems. Take a look at the AK-200. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/27/ak-200-rifle-the-21st-century-ak/. Regardless, it's Call of Duty, not a simulator by any means. The AK in MW3 looks to be a step in the right direction over the airsoft-inspired replica in MW2. The KSG is a pump action shotgun which features the use of two tubes, doubling the capacity of a normal shotgun in this configuration and gives the operator the ability to switch tube magazines once one is expended (Due to magazine capacity laws). But in practice, it features a 14+1 magazine capacity, which is astounding when compared to normally configured shotguns like Remington 870's. Also, it features a twelve and I believe six o'clock rail for mounting of accessories. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:If it's got a six o'clock rail, does that mean we'll be able to stick a Masterkey on it and have a shotgun with a back-up shotgun? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

The KSG is a pump-action shotgun. If you did put an underbarrel-type shotgun on it, then you wouldn't have enough room to pull the pump back enough to eject a shell. Besides, that would be unnecessary and impractical. The KSG had two magazine tubes, so if you needed a breaching round, beanbag round, or etc. instead of buckshot, then you could just switch the feed over to swap from lethal to nonlethal. A question about the MP5, what differences are there between the Navy and A2 model? Other than the lower receiver being metal with a new trigger group instead of synthetic with a German fire selector layout. The MP5 in MW3 looks like a Navy model but I'm guessing there's a reason someone changed it to A2. Just wondering if I was wrong. And how do I automatically leave a sig at the end of my messages? xD new to the site. -

:You use the masterkey as the pump, silly. It's genius! (Or rather, it's no less silly than some of the things the series ''has'' done in the past). Leaving a sig is four tildes (~) in a row. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:27, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:But if you used the masterkey then it would take up all the ro- oh I see what you did there. And thanks for the sig help. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 01:34, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:Plus, any under-barrel attachments have been confined to the Assault Rifle class, and more recently, the AK74su "SMG" in Black Ops, which in real life... is still an Assault Rifle. Shotguns have no precedent in CoD for having under-barrel attachments of any sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Can someone help me identify the weapon the guy on the front-right is holding? Looks like an RPD or RPK to me http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/wtfisthisk.jpg/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:44, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: Pretty sure that's the RPD, yep. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:21, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Only not-yet-seen weapons I saw during the trailer were the P90 at 0:32, FAMAS at 0:35, UMP at 1:04, RPD at 0:52, and an unknown weapon with a flashlight at 0:55, looks to be a bullpup of some sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:38, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: The weapon at 0:55 looks like an AUG to me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

My thoughts exactly, or a Tavor. The barrel looks too thick to be either though, might be a flashlight/suppressor? [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:10, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==HELL YEAH==

the guns are supposed to look rusty and mangled and outdated because its a fully urban war environment like homefont

i think the new model looks badass in a stealthy black camo

does anyone know if these pictures have been confirmed to be real

: Robert Bowling said that the leaks were mostly accurate, likely alluding to the fact that they're from an early build of the game. So some stuff might've changed, but this is what we know so far. What model are you talking about specifically? I don't really see rusty and mangled anywhere, the weapons all look pretty pristine to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:35, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

==The tossed magazine doesnt look right==
In the newest trailer I noticed that a soldier tosses a magazine to the player but it's easy to see that you cant see any bullets in the top of it. I don't know that much about M4A1 magazines. Is there a door that opens when it's inserted into the rifle, did the devs over-look this or what?

: Probably due to either being lazy or being an early build of the game. IW's track record is so-so for magazines, on a normal AR-15 magazine, there are two lips at the top of the magazine and the rounds feed through them. The magazine will spend most of the time in game, being lodged in the weapon, so it's not really that big of a deal to me personally. But you are correct, the magazine model doesn't look 100% accurate. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:06, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Thanks. The real world acuracy and high detail in the MW games is what sets them apart from all the other games based on modern combat. I hope that was just an eary build.

Sorry Anon, but no, if you want real world accuracy play something like ARMA, or even Battlefield, but not COD. The weapons either aren't handled properly, or have thing on them that would never be, or are mounted wrong, or are used by people who never would, or have stats that don't work for the real weapon at all, or are out of scale, and they STILL havn't added +1 in the chamber. For better or for worse COD is a playable action movie, and the graphics literally havn't been changed since COD4. I can't really comment on 1, 2, or 3, but MW fits your description well, it's not a military simulator, but it was quite good. WAW was okay, but it was pretty much just the COD4 Marine missions for the whole game, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot etc. MW2's singleplayer was good but not amazing, there was too much that was just a little too far fetched, and a few glaring plotholes. MW was like a war movie (Saving Private Ryan/Black Hawk Down/etc.), but MW2 is an action movie, that's why it wasn't up to par with MW in my opinion. BO had potential for a good singleplayer, but the had a serious, conspiracy filled plot, and tried to make it a bad ass action movie at the same time, and those don't go together very well. COD games have good potential, but it always seems to get wasted. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

==Plot Holes==
So the campaign takes place in (from what appeared in the leak) New York, France and Germany. Besides the massive stupidity of Russia invading the U.S. East-to-West. How would Russia manage to fight it's way through Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine, the Baltic states and the Czech Republic into Germany AND then through Belgium and Holland to get into France. At this point, I think even China would be over-extended watching over eight modern, democratic nations and be fighting a a war with two of the strongest of these plus the U.S. But at this point Activision could release a fifteen minute demo and it'll still sell millions of copies. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:16, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A possible explanation is that in their new found "ultra-nationalist" rage, they take over or make a new alliance with all the former warsaw pact countries. That would explain a few things on the man power problem, a possible explanation is that similar defense system breaches occur in the attacked areas (like in MW2 DC got waylayed pretty early). Maybe NATO got complacent with the Russian threat and signed a non-aggression pact(WWII). Still I agree with you there is no way in hell they could attack NYC, Germaney, England, and France all at the same time having already attacked the eastren seaboard in Mw2. Seeing as CoD is the 10 ton ape in the consumers eyes, it really wont matter.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 01:44, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

::The plot for London getting attacked is (or atleast was) that terrorists funded by the Russians attack London. The SAS raid part of the Docklands (I think that is East London) where the Russian terrorists are, but basically end up chasing them all over London, ending with a gun fight infront of Parliament (surely we'd also see one of the Guard regiments as well, since they're both in London?). Whilst I'll let the "London's Burning" bit of the plot slide as it is plausible (if ''very'' unlikely), I agree, the rest doesn't seem to make sense. But hey-ho, this is CodMod, where reality takes a back seat so that we can enjoy bombing around in Berlin, Paris, NYC and London... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Guns ==

I like the way few of currently known guns are going. AK-47 looks a lot more like rifle that Russian Army may use some time. It has cheapest Crane Stock and not one of most espensive ones (Yeah, Vltor one is expensive as fuck) and handguard is basically one ris rail on each side with rail covers. Not full plastic handguard. G36 is plain and easy which is both suprising and awesome. M4 seems like its pretty cheap too. I like that Czech Vzor 61 is back, hope it will be in hands of Czech partisans. Anyway, few guns are ugly like fuck. For example that winchester or MP5.

Well, game will suck like all of those "new" CoDs from World At War to Black Ops. But it will be atleast a bit interesting. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:04, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: I don't understand what you mean by "cheap". There's nothing wrong with Crane stocks... The AK in MW3 doesn't even have a Crane stock, it's a standard LE stock, which is a good stock. You don't need a Vltor stock to shoot a weapon accurately. AK rails don't have to be crazy railed hanguards like in MW2, which was largely inspired by an airsoft weapon. See Travis Haley's one-off MAG-K from Magpul, using the Ultimak rail system. The cost of a component doesn't effect how it behaves in game, or in real life for that matter, it's reliability and effectiveness that count. What's wrong with the handguard with a rail on each side with rail covers? That's generally what rail systems are. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:13, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Yes, i know. Thats what i meant. Any army on world (especially Russian) would hardly put shitload of ris rifles on their weapon and overpriced stocks. By cheap, i meant cheaper than MW2.

: I still don't understand what you mean by cheaper. How? Like, in real world money costs? In aesthetic looks? The Russians are putting different rail systems in their modern AK's, see my AK-200 link from Firearmblog. Russia has arguably one of the most powerful and modern militaries in the world, what would discourage them from placing RIS rails on their service rifles like everyone else? Tapco, the company that makes the rail system and stock adapter for the AK in MW2 is one of the cheaper companies in terms of quality and price, Tapco still makes good stuff regardless. Just confused as to what you mean by cheap. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:09, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: No one else ticked off that in any of the videos or demos present, there have been NO new guns? Granted, the AA-12 has a new skin, and so does the MP5, but no drum mags for the AA-12? And to be fair, I preferred the MP5K. But seriously, in MW2's Cliffhanger demo, there was tonnes of new weapons and attachments shown, like the ACR, FAMAS and the new AK. But so far, the only "new" guns that were leaked in images haven't been shown. I'm really disappointed in that. [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 12:12, 14 June 2011

== Pistols ==

Am I the only one completely pumped for the P99 and P226? Hopefully both are usable and rendered well. I tend to get more excited over the pistols rather than assault rifles in video games.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:15, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Nope, you're not the only one. I'm ''slightly'' disappointed that they seem to be going with the 1st-gen model, but otherwise, I'm hoping for the execution, so to speak, to be superb and the rest of the game to be worth 60 bucks. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 23:25, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

I'm looking forward to seeing the SIG pistol too. Always had a soft spot for German guns. I hope it's usable and not just part of a character model ... [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 23:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Looking forward to both, and more. Preferably the USP and M1911. M1911 was epic in MW1 and in MW2 they took it away from multiplayer, and in Black Ops they made it black in singleplayer and chrome in multiplayer for some silly reason. Hopefully they got the silver/chrome out of their systems with the P99 already. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:36, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Part of me says "Yes! A game that you can fire a P99 and it's NOT James Bond." Another part of me says that Hand Guns, unless automatic, serve no perpise in todays FPS world. Oh I miss the Golden days.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:55, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:That's funny, since I PWN most people in FPS' who have Assault rifles or Submachine guns with my '''semi-automatic''' handguns, especially in MW1 with my USP45 :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:53, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::I agree, COD4's USP was amazing. In COD4 handguns were how game handguns should be. Most people suck with them, but if you get good with pistols, they kick ass. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:16, 29 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Yeah, most people in WM1 waste a whole pistol mag by rapid firing at me (even with a Desert Eagle!) and I just double-tap them in the chest, end of story. One time I ran into three guys at the same time in a small room and I just wiped them all out in seconds and then two more showed up (one had a SAW!) and I rapidly took them out before they could fire a single shot. All in all, I wiped out five guys with a my USP45 in about 10 seconds! That's why my friends nick-named me Vincent, you know, from the movie [[Collateral]], because I can take down multiple people very quickly with a USP45. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:44, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::::I start to get annoyed in most FPS when the pistols are severely underpowered. Like in Black Ops- in reality a few shots from the 1911 would put somebody down, but I've had instances where it takes one and a half magazines. I still agree that MW1 got the pistols right, and IMO it is the best CoD to date.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:25, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Thats what I did when I sniped in CoD4. Since I suck at sniping, i usually got more 1911 kills than R700 kills. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 12:36, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I agree, COD4 had pistols right, amongst other things. I am a bit worried about the Machine Pistols continuing from MW2, it's not fun going against snipers who are so well armed. A sniper should have a pistol and his rifle, that's it... not an Uzi... especially not a Raffica that's essentially an M16. Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense. In MW2, snipers use their MP's to assault positions and run around as if they had an SMG. This isn't cool. Regardless, I think they need to make sniper rifles less of a close range deal. People pride themselves on using the Intervention at close range, and using the M40 ACOG to no-scope. This is so against what those two weapons are designed for I can't even think straight. But, this's off topic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:48, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Arg, yes, I HATE quickscoping soooo much, but yeah, the balance to snipers is they only get a pistol, so they (are supposed to be) stuck to long range fighting. Oh, and I hope shotguns are better, not like MW2 1887 better, like MW1 W1200 better. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:43, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
:The funny thing is that real US snipers use a M16 or a M4/M4A1 as they're backup weapon for they're sniper rifle along side a possible M9 pistol which would be a backup, backup weapon. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Don't quite see how relevant this is. As I've said before, CoD isn't a simulator. Also, I distinctly said "Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense", in a paragraph and in a section regarding MW3, a video game, in order to defuse any realism comments. It's simply not fun/balanced, in my opinion. In real warfare, yeah, there's really no room for fairness... but it's a game that can be adjusted to be the most fun for everyone. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:19, 1 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I know, just say'n. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:I understand that quickscoping takes skill, but it still makes me sooo mad. I think that they should find a way to limit sniper rifles to long range only. Anyway, back on topic, I realized that Quantum of Solace actually got the pistols right too. Two or three shots from a 9mm puts someone down and one to two from a .45. This might be because the game really focuses around the P99 and other pistols more than rifles/submachine guns.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Doing something that's silly can still take skill. Putting my hand in the mouth of a Shark and yanking it out again without a scratch takes skill, but it's still silly. Skill can't be the sole factor in weighing an action's legitimacy. There should be no ACOG option for any sniper rifle, especially bolt actions. Period. I'd be in favor of making a 6x or Variable Magnification scope available for sniper rifles (and assault rifles in the case of the former). My point is not that quickscoping is done, it's that IW has created a game in which it's possible. It needs to be made impossible. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:36, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Very well said, it is not legitimate because it takes skill, you might as well put Rock Band gameplay in and FPS if you think like that. COD may ot be a simulator, in the sense of what people use, unlikely events, etc, but every FPS needs to have the weapons used properly, in a technical sense, and so you can't snipe with a compact pistol, or quickscope, etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:12, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

It would be so nice to see a stealth mission where you sneak into a complex (probably as price and soap) to kill a leader and you have to sneak through hallways and vents with suppressed P99's with a fellow soldier like in Prypiat in COD4. WHY cant this happen. It would be a nice change of pace and not feel like a straight rip off of All Gilled Up like Contingency did in MW2.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:37, 06 June 2011 (CDT)

:These are nice additions, but I'm still hoping for an XD or XD(m) -- preferably in .45 caliber. :P [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:03, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==
Is it possible that the soldier catching the magazine could be holding a [[Armalite AR-10|AR-10]] 7.62x51mm rifle? Since the developers finally learned about magnifiers maybe they think they could make a hybrid sniper/assault rifle by using a bigger bullet? I just don't see a reason why soldiers would be using 20 round 5.56 magazines unless they figured out it bigger magazines don't work well in prone. Plus we do see that fire selector switch on semi? I personally think it's a AR-10 with a shortened barrel.
:Sorry dude, but the mag is too small to be a 7.62x51mm, it's defiantly a 556'er. So it's a goof on IW's part, at least for now. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr.
Wolf]] 08:31, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::Here's a thought, in Black Op's they modelled some guns with Extended Magazines when the "Extended Magazines Attachment" was added, perhaps IW has done the same? Maybe the 30 rounders are extended mags, while they revert to 20 rounders for default? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Well that's just dumb. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:02, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::And yet they made it so that an M4A1 could carry 45 round magazines without changing the magazine on the model in MW2. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:15, 27 May 2011 (CDT)
: Yeah, there's no way it's an AR-10. They've already got something similar to an AR-10 in the RSASS, which is akin to the SR-25/M110. Draco, my thoughts as well. It still doesn't make sense, but if extended magazines show up on the gun as a 30 rounder, would work. That in my opinion, is Black Ops' greatest contributing to CoD, taking abilities away from perks and adding them to attachments. Example, the taped/dual magazines in Black Ops, gave a slightly faster reload time and added more ammunition in total. This took an emphasis off of having Scavenger to last any long period of time and allowed people to balance Bling and Sleight of Hand.

: Furthermore, everyone seems to think that IW is making a system whereby one folds down the 3x magnifier and uses the EOTech singularly and vice versa. I really think IW will be using an EOTech as a separate attachment, and a magnified EOTech as its version of an ACOG. I have yet to see a picture with a regular ACOG, correct me if I'm wrong. By all means, it would be preferable to have it behave like in real life where you could use both or the EOTech in different instances, but sadly I think IW may just be saving on development time by combining the two. However, what I think is more likely/logical is for them to include a traditional RDS/Reflex, and an ACOG, while including the EOTech with magnifier as one attachment to make it different from the RDS.

: IW could also be making the M4 with a 20 round magazine because they want it to -act- like a 7.62x51 NATO, i.e. be more powerful, so therefore they'd have to balance the ammunition capacity. IW is notorious for making weapons with silly statistics, like the SCAR-H being 7.62x51 NATO and having a very small amount of recoil on full-auto.

::I doubt that. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::If anything, it seems the most logical explanation for them making a 20 round magazine standard on the M4. The M4 was one of the weakest assault rifles in MW2, so it's logical that they'd try and up the damage on it and offset this increased damage with a smaller magazine/semi-automatic fire rate. It's still silly, but IW isn't dumb. They may not be well known for making a realistic game, but balance is kind of their forte, even if it's manifested by making weapons have odd properties. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::You know what, It would be really funny if IW made the 20-round magazine hold 30 rounds anyway, lol. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:48, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:PS - There is a picture of the MP5 with an ACOG from CoD4 in the leaked pictures from Kotaku, assuming this won't be in game. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:45, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's because they're comparing the MW3 MP5 with the MW1 and 2 MP5s. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 05:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::That's also why I put that PS there, it's a toss up between a comparison and including them as variants. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:21, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Cover Art ==
What is that the dude is holding on the cover art? It first glance I thought it was a TAR21 or something similar, but now I'm thinking its an M4 of some sort, but with an AFG Magpul grip attached instead. Could someone clear this up for me? --[[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 14:09 25 May 2011 (GMT+0)

: Yeah, it's just an AR variant with an AFG on it. It seems that IW has received a lot of sponsorship from Remington and Magpul, so it's possible that the AFG may be included as an attachment, though that's very doubtful. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:37, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: Ahh, its nice to choose having a grip, but choosing the actual grip model is a luxury we will probably never have in CoD. Ironicy, it is one of the thigns I want MW3 to deliver, weapon customization like in Army of Two 40th Day. That was/is a BEASTLY game for weapon customization. Like PMG on console. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 12:26, 26 May 2011 (GMT+0)

:: I think COD's decent enough in terms of weapon customization, one step they could take is allowing Bling Pro to give you three attachments (Not including M203/Masterkey in my opinion) and add a few more attachments that were in Black Ops and ones that aid in recoil/accuracy that aren't sights. Or, the more preferable solution in my eyes, is to separate attachments from perks altogether. In other words, get rid of Bling and just give people the ability to customize their weapons. There's no invisible wall preventing one from putting attachments on a weapon in real life. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:08, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Yeah, it worked for Brink afterall. just make it so having a grenade launcher stops you using throw lethal grenades, or stops you from having a first perk, simple as. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:12, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

== MP5SD2 ==

I think there was '''NO''' MP5SD in the reveal trailer. The COD wikia has it wrong. [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_3] It is a normal A2 with a suppressor, unless the SD2 has rails around the built-in suppressor. Well, this game is pure sci-fi so, I don't know.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:29, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Without agreeing or disagreeing (I'm indifferent toward this game at the moment), I don't see anything that would prevent IW from sticking rails on an MP5SD if they wanted. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:37, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Err... Guys? ==

Just remember that there's still no guarantee this is even getting released, depending on which way the pending lawsuit goes. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

*I imagine it'd come out regardless, just without the Modern Warfare brand if Activision loses. You know, like it was going to be with FEAR 2 being just "Project Origin" before Monolith bought the franchise from Activision. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::But if Activision loses, and can't use the MW brand, doesn't that also include, and mean they can't use the characters either? Like Price and MacTavish? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:48, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::I don't think so, even when it was "Project Origin" FEAR 2 was going to have Alma in it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:52, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::: If it is being pushed through to November, it's going to be released. Activision wouldn't risk losing their baby of a franchise to go out like that, they aren't dumb. COD games come out every Holiday season like the sun rises and sets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Flip-Up Sights ==

The german magazine GameStar did a preview on the game, apparently IW and Sledgehammer showed two levels of the game in London. And they write something about "flipping up sights" as a new feature. It isnt explained what this means exactly, nor is there any picture/video material of it, but it could be a hint about it. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:They're probably talking about that magnifier; I guess that means you really can control if it's used or not (D-pad function, perhaps). Games magazines can usually be relied on to get every piece of firearm terminology they try to use wrong since they learned gun terminology from video games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:24, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::They actually use the german term for Flip-Up sights, so i dont know. I posted the question in the comment sections, maybe i'll get an answer. But even if it's the magnifier, still an improvement. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:42, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::The minute I posted this, I got a response. You are right, she means the magnifier. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Either way, seems to be an improvement. Thanks for the info! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:23, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Samopal Vzor 58 ==
In Prague level (Czech Republic), Russian soldier can be seen holding an AK type gun that seems like Samopal Vzor 58. Off course its most probably just wrongly lighted AK-47, but it may sense that he captured it from Czech Army as it takes place in Czech Republic.

[[File:Samopal Vzor 58 MW3 probably.JPG|thumb|left|200px|Well, it would have been really awesome if IW included this rare weapon.]]

[[Image:800px-Sa 58-JH01.jpg|thumb|left|400px|'''Czech Sa. vz. 58P''' ''(Pěchotní aka "Infantry")'' with fixed stock - 7.62x39mm]]

Just look on it - It seems to lack AK ejecting port, it may lack top-mount RIS rifle and gas block looks shorter. Also, body looks almost tiny compared to 7.62 magazine.

:: There's already an AK variant/format weapon that's not of Czech design, IW wouldn't put another in just for kicks. What you're likely seeing is a lack of modeling, or lighting as you indicated, for example the M4 in MW2 didn't have an ejection port simply because it's a mirror image in terms of a weapon model, laziness on IW's part. As for the magazine, the mags have always been a bit oversized on MW AK's, but they're not ridiculous. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:31, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== New Weapons Confirmed ==

From reading several previews posted 5/26/2011, multiple games press have confirmed a few weapons. Modern Warfare 24/7 has a list of these previews here (http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/first-mw3-previews-screens) while the one that details the weapons by name are found here (http://aggregame.com/news/2011/05/26/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-preview/). Weapons confirmed in closed doors preview include: AK-47, P90, M4A1, Spas-12, AT-4, and XM-25. The XM-25 has been called the "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" or "a nod to the crossbow" in other previews. Also confirms the usage of a "hybrid" sight mixing acog and red dot and its use. Lastly, theres a "9-bang" which is a "cluster bomb" of flashbangs and/pr stun grenades that you throw (I don't know if that one is a real life thing but someone who's more versed in gun/warfare knowledge confirm please). Please update main imfdb page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

: Modernwarfare 247 is notorious for labeling firearms inaccurately, they did so with MW2 on several weapons before correcting it after the game came out. There's nothing in the Modernwarfare 247 article that says XM-25, but either way, it's not a sniper rifle by any means. Would be a cool inclusion if it's in. Dunno what the 9 bang thing is, stun grenades and flashbangs are increasingly irritating, I don't think they need to be made better by any means. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

You are correct that the Modernwarfare 247 article doesn't name the xm-25, I merely mentioned that it had a list a previews and that some of the previews do. The one paticulalrly from aggregame.com, which I linked, mentions weapons by name. Many articles of the gaming press, who clearly don't know guns like the people on here, claim a "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" on the New York level. Aggregame.com's article says this in the 3rd paragraph quote, "We see a new type of weapon used in this level called the XM25. This weapon uses a laser rangefinder to determine the distance to the target and once fired, detonated at the proper distance to produce an airburst effect. Anyone hiding will be properly taken out." Now, judging from the grammar used (though this is only a hypothetical analysis) he mentioned it being "called" an XM-25. Meaning that the game files at this stage of development identify it as such, not that he used it and was like "oh I know what this is". Judging from the description of many gaming press articles (again linked by modernwarfare24/7) it 'seems' to be the real thing. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

:Arg, I was just in the middle of adding that :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:55, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Ahhh fair enough, gotcha'. Hm, well I hope they actually make it semi-automatic and with a small overall ammunition capacity. IW seems to shower in explosions and knifing, when they're making a -shooter-. I dunno' why they don't focus on making their conventional firearms better. Either way, nice snag on the info. Though, I will still caution you on MW247, I encountered them in my MW2 forum days and they weren't reliable at all. The 9 bang thing is troubling, what the hell was wrong with the Stun/Flash grenandes? Stun Grenades are -way- overpowered in my opinion, granted being stunned is an effect of a common flashbang, but being paralyzed -and- blinded, isn't. Regular flashbangs are enough, nothing else. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:59, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah, I wouldn't mid COD so much if they toned down the knifing, seriously, it's not sothing you should use because you couldn't think to do anything else, it should be a very last ditch defence, this goes for all shooters. What's strange is when I play COD4 (cause I still play 4 :) ), there's very little knifing if you watch the killfeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:My thoughts exactly, Commando is silly. They had it right in CoD4. One thing that really bothers me, is that even on Hardcore, when I'm face to face and lighting the person up... it's still possible for them to knife me and walk away. Getting shot should interrupt the knife ability, and it shouldn't work faster than bullets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:30, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Exactly, it's not that it's one hit kill, it's that it's so damn fast! Bad Company 2 got the knife right, you press the button, and it kills them about a whole second (that's a long time) later, it's mostly an assassination weapon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Just wanna throw out, the XM-25 is now also confirmed by IGN. Link here: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1171345p1.html. Someone can edit the main page appropriately as I'm not the most professional gun expert. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 22:23, 30 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

The "hybrid ACOG" could be one of Trijicon's ECOS models which have a small red dot sight mounted on top. And within a month, everybody will be whining about how "unfair" it is to have a scope and an RDS in one package... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Controversy ==

Well, it was inevitable, but the controversy's already gotten rolling.

[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110393-Daily-Mail-Voices-Concern-Over-Ultra-Violent-Modern-Warfare-3 Escapist: Daily Mail Voices Concern Over "Ultra-Violent" Modern Warfare 3]

[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Fortunately, most gamers care about good games regardless of content. personally, I could care less what the media says. Not a big issue, always going to be this somewhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:12, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: The controversy is exactly what they want, it's good promotion. Just like that whole "airport-level" in MW2 was. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 07:12, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::Yup, it's good marketing for them, people become more interested when all the soccer mums etc. cry out about something. Until we see games like GTA actually getting banned, we FPS players have nothing to worry about. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:54, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Killer, Alex, those are the most truthful words ever. They dont care about decency or people, they care about MONEY. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 17:58, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:I get upset every time I see footage of the Towers falling, but that doesn't mean I think such images should be censored. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown Ak Variant ==

I was think the gun listed as the Unknown Ak Variant might be a AK74. I thought this because it appears to have a longer flash hider, which the AK74 encorporates, although I wouldnt hold my breath. Thoughts?

: If you check out the flash-hider on the leaked Kotaku screens, you can see that it's emphatically not the AK-74 typical flash-hider. It's something I've never seen before, it's like just the last few centimeters of the AK-74 flashhider, married to the barrel. Magazine looks too curved to be the AK-74, so it's probably a 7.62x39 AK. AK Variant is good enough for me, CoD's AK's are always pretty non-specific. :) [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:52, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:: On first screen, that unknown AK variant looks like Vzor 58 rifle as it doesnt have AK´s ejection port/ bolt. On second screen, its just normal AK that is on one of those leaked shots. They arent same, as first gun is longer, thiner and lacks top mounted RIS rail.

: It looks different because it's in the dark and is low-res, whereas the leaked one is in the bright daylight and is a high-res closeup. It's the same weapon, there is no reason why IW would include both being so similar.It doesn't have the bolt/ejection port because IW is lazy and uses mirror images of weapons to render their models. Where the end of the receiver meets the stock adapter and the angled area of the receiver around the magwell are dead giveaways that it's not the Czor in addition to the spacing of the ribs on the receiver, which on the Czor are very close together. The magazines are always a little bigger, just CoD's style, and even then the magazine looks just fine to me. It's an AK variant, not the Czech make.

:As for the length, it's the same. What you might be confusing is where the gas tube meets the barrel as the end of the weapon, in the reveal trailer capture, the barrel ends near the man's thigh it's just hard to make out. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:01, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

Shouldn't the AK-74 in the main page be called "Unknown AK variant" or something like that? It's a bit hard currently to determine what is the correct variant, but by the leaked footage, this could be the same customized AK-47 like in Modern Warfare 2 only with different flash hider, handguard (which is also in black instead of tan) and black stock instead of tan. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:50, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: The railed foreguard is distinctly smaller. The stock isn't a VLTOR-type stock, but an LE one. Also, in the CoD Elite snippet trailer, one can see that the leaked Kotaku picture is legitimate. It matches the AK in that perfectly, this is a new AK weapon model for sure not just a painted one from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:25, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

== Call Of Duty: Elite ==
Kinda off topic, but this site's COD talk pages always end up becomeing half about discussing the game anyway, I was that trailer for Elite, and man, they expect us to pay for that? I mean, it's cool, but Bungie's been doing that with Halo forever, and it's free... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:02, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:The only color that matters to Activision, is green. I don't get it, your company produces the top-selling franchise of recent history, and you still want -more- money... get over yourselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 17:13, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:Meh. Don't like it, then don't pay for it. Vote with your dollars. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 06:41, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I agree, and I don't plan on paying for it. Bungie did heatmaps/statistics/awards/etc for free... Activision is marketing Elite as some sort of CoD Facebook with the occasional prize won. As long as those are the only perks, then I will not be paying for it. However, if they decide to transform it into some VIP membership giving members say, discounts on map packs, early access, or different weapon/abilities that are available no other way... then it's supremely disappointing and insulting to the people who spend an already outrageous $60 USD on the very game they produced. I understand that Activision is a business, and the goal is to make money... but this just seems like overt greed and a way to cash in. It's also detrimental, because for some odd reason, CoD seems to set the paradigm for all FPS's of late. So, other companies now feel pressured to emulate CoD in order to make money themselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:45, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I'ts been pretty much summed up already. DEFINITELY not buying this, and I'm still not even sure I want MW3. I saw somewhere that there are no dedicated servers, which was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing that could save it is...well...a miracle. I am probably just going to go with Battlefield 3.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:36, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not expecting much from MW3, but I will get it for the singleplayer, just to see what happens with Price and Soap. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

They buy it used. Kick Activision where it hurts.

Battlefield 3 looks great, really high hopes for that one. MW3 doesn't look bad necessarily, just the same stuff in a different package. Will get it and play it a ton, but, as far as a good game being made, Battlefield 3 is going to take the cake. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:03, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, well said, I don't think MW3 is gonna be BAD, just the same thing again. BF3 looks awesome though. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:49, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Not going to lie, I'm going to buy this to round out the MW series (hopefully it ends with #3), and I'll be buying BF3. I will not be paying a single cent for the Elite service though. There's no reason for it to exist as a pay service. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:55, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

DICE also just blogged about their FREE BattleLog thing, which is pretty much the same as Elite. But free, because DICE seem to be less concerned with making dough and more concerned with producing a decent game and making their customers happy. IW makes their customers happy, sure, but most of those customers value big 'splosions rather than deep and interesting gameplay. I love CoD, but Battlefield is long overdue and as a company, EA/DICE are good in my book. Really looking forward to the Multiplayer footage and information that'll be coming out of E3 in the next few days. Seems a bit odd though, nobody seems to be posting regularly on the BF3 Discussion thread... get to it! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

Ummm... is Call of Duty: Elite directly related to MW3? If not, shouldn't it have it's own page? Please correct me if I'm wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:04, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Elite is some kind of online service, not a separate game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:36, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== TDI Vector in Call of Duty Elite, MW-3 Snippet? ==

In the snippet of mw3 at the end of the Call of Duty Elite trailer, when the player is killed the stock of the TSI Vector from Mw2 appears on his back.
[[File:TDI Vector.jpg]]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 22:04, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: Yep! I noticed that too. It's prolly indeed, the TDI Vector. However, I did notice that stock somewhere else on a weapon it shouldn't be in MW3, I can't say where, I just feel like I saw it somewhere. Good spot! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:24, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Could that be the M93 Raffica from MW2? I've always thought the stocks look similar. Although why a pistol has a stock in the first place is beyond me. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:39, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:::To make it a more stable firing platform, especially for a pistol that fires in full-auto/tri-burst. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:33, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== E3 Footage ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfTBe_PJrQ
Some firearms could be seen here. AA-12 confirmed. --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 13:26, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

You can see the AK-74u, P-90, and Glock 18 as pickups at times 5:14, 5:22, and 6:46 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

AA-12 is used for breaching the bridge of the sub starting at 6:16 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:52, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

I am nowhere near impressed with what we've seen out of MW3 so far... Good spots. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

2nd E3 Trailer spots at trailer found here (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-call-of/714784?type=flv). AK-47 as pickup at 1:29. 0:09 Driver of Humvee screams "RPG!", Dshk mounted on enemy vehicle at 1:40, M2 on automated gun system on Stryker at 2:16, Mi-24 using Yak-B gattling gun at 2:53, 9-bang used at 4:27, RPG (with RPG-7 sound from MW2) fired towards allied npcs at 4:50, XM-25 usage starting at 5:20, AT-4 as pickup at 5:30, AK-47 Grenadier seen as pickup at 7:00 possibly a gp-25 or a gp-30, Spas-12 as pickup at 8:12, Thermite grenades at 8:40, Reaper Drone weapons used starting at 9:25, M134 Minigun sighted 10:32, and RPG-7's fired at player shortly after, M134 magically taking down Hinds for remainder of the video (Hind cockpit glass alone is 12.7mm resistant).
:Wow, four years were not enough for them to realize that there is no such sh*t as "AK-74u". - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:21, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Hehe. Even when I name my classes I always find myself putting the 's' in it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I've seen people refer to the S model as a "Ak47 pistol". I mean, seriously, a pistol? makes it worse the bloke who said it is a retired soldier who fought in Vietnam. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:41, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
Note how they say 12.7mm resistant. With a m134 you have 50 rounds a second heading for those Hinds. Now I've known people who are attack helicopter pilots and they do not want to get hit by a minigun as while such things as Titanium armored tubs will take the hit such things as armored cockpit glass cannot due to the number of bullets hitting the "glass" Sort of like how you can drop a quarter on a car window and it will bounce but if you drop a tin can full of quarters it will break the window.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:38, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The worst thing was that you got HIT by the crashing Hind, then HIT the building, fall out of the Blackhawk (almost), pull yourself BACK IN while it's spinning out, and GET BACK ON THE DAMN M134, then, oh we're fine, let's keep on flying... Oh, that and the HUGE BRICK OF C4 that you breach the Bridge with, and it doesn't hurt you... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:58, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::MW3=$60 MW2 DLC. Not impressed by anything I've seen so far, other than it taking place in NY; but Crysis 2, anyone? -Kangabox

Few more finds in the msnbc coverage of E3 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/43349883#43349883). Some gameplay of spec-ops shows (at 0:30) a man running around with a lever-action rifle/shotgun of some kind. It looks similar to the M1887 shotgun from the "leaked" photos a month back. At 0:53 the gamers are using what appears to be the Bushmaster ACR but I may be wrong because I'm not a gun expert. Someone please identify, thanks. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 20:50, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

:Did anybody notice that the MP-5 was called an MP-5k? and that the ACR was called ACR 6.8 --[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

More MW3 stuff. M1887 spotted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRx33M0V6I --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 01:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Actually, that may be a hint at caliber change options and the option to remove/attach stock.We'll see. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:03, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:^ This would be so awesome --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:58, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I doubt Activision would put something semi-realistic in CoD, but if caliber change was implemented I would buy it just for that reason.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:17, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::: Imagine what an 7.62X39 ACR would be like (it can be modified to use it). Just kill the bad guys and pick up their AK magazines. Awesome. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:38, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 18c ==

Should this not be put down as a Glock 17 seeing as it's likely it's the exact same gun from MW2? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]
:We should wait until we get a good shot of it before we make a decision, although it is likely the same.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, Jazz :) -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

== Unknown pistol from Late Night footage ==

[[Image:FN57MW3.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

Can anyone help identify this pistol? Looks like an FN Five seveN to me (sorry for bad quality) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:15, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yep, that's a Five-seveN alright, cool. EDIT, it holds 15 rounds. Wow, hardcore fail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:I had figured they'd do SOMETHING to balance it, either keep it at 20 rounds and give it low damage, or reduce mag size to keep it similar to other pistols --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:46, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Is there a link to this footage? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-61311/1333686/ Also confirms the inclusion of the Model 1887 in the game --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:36, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

FN five-seveN- YES! One handed grip- meh. Could get over it. Once (or if) they confirm the P99/P226, I will be more excited. At one point, the developer says something like "This gives an action movie feel. We tried to make it a cinematic experience." That is what CoD is- an action movie. If you want a military sim go to Battlefield.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:23, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:True that, I will always enjoy both games because they offer completely different experiences despite being the same genre. I'll be more interested in MW3 when they start announcing some MGs, but the Five-seveN is a pretty cool addition --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:53, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Gotta agree with both of you, there, I'm psyched for an FN five-seveN in a game like CoD. -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 00:43, 15 June 2011
::"Wow, hardcore fail." Alex, what the f#ck did you expect from a call of duty game. +1 round in the chamber? Some things will never change. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:53, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Haha, I was never hopeful enough for +1, but until not they'd gotten almost all the mag capacities right, especially since the 20 round mag is one of the most notable features of the Five-seveN :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::::If it did have 20 rounds, people would complain that it was overpowered. All in the name of balance! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:51, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Not if it was very weak, no one complained about the 20 round Five-seveN in the Counter Strike games. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:16, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::There is that I suppose. It'd probably never be used in favour of something a little more powerful with fewer rounds though. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:22, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

:And of course it's probably still going to have 15 rounds in single even though multiplayer balance is totally irrelevant there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
::Good point, didn't consider that. Screw Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:12, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

I am starting to realise that if ammo sharing between primaries and secondaries comes back from Cod4, most SMGs will have an advantage, as of now there are many possible combos (P90/Five-seveN, MP5 & FMG-9/P226 & Glock 18 and possibly UMP45/USP45 or M1911). This would make Scavenger (if it returns) unecessary and would open up a perk slot. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 19:38, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:That would be awesome! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:04, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 back in MW3 ==

Does anyone think the M1911 will be back in Modern Warfare, and I found a 1911 looking gun when soldier blind-firing with a UMP45 in the reveal trailer [[File:UMP45-MW3]]

:I know the shot you're talking about, it could be a 1911, I HOPE it's a 1911, but it could also be the P226 with wierd lighting on it, if there really is a P226. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:46, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope both are included, the selection of secondaries in Black Ops was paltry, more pistol choices plz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:54, 16 June 2011 (CDT)
: yeah more pistol choices because in black ops I only used the m1911 and the python.

:I only use the ASP, I know it was highly outclassed by all the others but it was obscure enough to make it a favourite.--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:41, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:I like all the pistols in Black Ops (except the Makarov, I've never liked it), but the problem was they were almost all the same, low capacity, low damage, like the WaW pistols. While we're talking about pistols, has anyone else noticed that the sildes of the COD4 pistols actually locked back when empty, and the WaW ones had working hammers? Then starting with MW2, it just became part of the animation, so it would fully cycle, then appear back when you started reloading. Black Ops continued this too. The only pistol in MW2 that locked empty was the 1911 because they just copy-pasted the whole thing from 4, and the only one to lock empty in BO is... the 1911. Apparently they just reskined the WaW 1911 in BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:06, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Can't say I'm surprised, I suppose the majority of players don't notice small inconsistencies in weapon function animations. I guess they could get away with copy pasting the M1911 from CoD4 into MW2 as it was only featured in campaign, which in itself was pretty lame as it was the only sidearm I used in CoD4 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah Ive heard about it and sceen it do you think they fix the bug --[[User:GVK2009|GVK2009]] 22:01, 16 June 2011 (CDT)GVK2009

: I wouldn't be surprised, it's kinda become a tradition to have it in the series. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:36, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::They better, if only so Price can have it like in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

If the 1911 is coming back it won't be in the multiplayer which saddens me since I destroyed people with it in CoD 4. The BO 1911 was weak as hell and not having one in MW2, besides museum mode, was a bit disappointing. Now that MW3 isn't going to feature one I'm kind of giving up on it in future titles. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 14:35, 19 September 2011 (CDT)
:How do you know it's not in multiplayer? Bear in mind the XP build didn't feature several weapons we know will be in the finished version. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:42, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

::I'm going to have to leave for class in a minute so I can't post it now but there is a youtube video that shows a list of available side-arms for multiplayer and the 1911 wasn't on it. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 16:31, 19 September 2011 (CDT)
::: I refer you to my earlier statement. If it was from the XP build then the list isn't necessarily complete. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:16, 19 September 2011 (CDT)
:::: How can you know that? --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 00:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
::::: I'm inferring from the lack of the FAMAS and the Vector, both confirmed in earlier sources. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 01:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
I think Price has said good-bye to the M1911 and hello to the Desert Eagle. Watch the Redemption single-player trailer.
:Nope, check his shoulder holster, he still has it :D Most noticable at 0:43 when he slams the guy into the wall and stabs him. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:45, 9 October 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons Wishlist ==

Any particular guns that people are hoping to see in MW3? All I need in order to be happy is the M240. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
:Hmm, I'm having for some drum mags and Frag-12 rounds for the AA-12. Also, a Blaser R93 LRS2 wouldn't go amiss. Probably not a military weapon, but neither is the WA2000 or the Winchester 1887. *Cough* MW2 *Cough* Also hope they bring back the M93R but fix the magazines to give it 30 rounds. And hopefully they throw in the PSG-1, like in BO, but make it look decent (Not sure about you guys, but to me the gun looked disgusting in BO). That's pretty much my wishlist, I guess. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:08, 17 June 2011
::Argle bargle there is no such thing as an M93R Beretta does not use M for model prefix etc etc [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thanks for the correction, Tim. I'm not amazing with guns, but I hope to improve. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:24, 17 June 2011
::Muh the AA-12, sure it looks cool but it can never, ever be balanced for inclusion in a video game. Also I think the PSG-1 in Black Ops was hot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
All I need to be happy is a HUGE selection of pistols, not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs, AA12, etc, and (gonna get a lot of heat for this) NO QUICKSCOPING. IMHO snipers should be used as snipers, and running around close-quarters with a sniper is simply a one shot one kill semi auto rifle. Pistols I would love to see in the game even though half of them have a guaranteed 0% chance- Walther P99, SIG-Sauer P226/P228/P229, HK P30 or HK45, Beretta Cougar or more realistically the Px4 Storm, S&W M&P, Para Ordnance P14 45 Limited (this would be the best pistol in the game, as I would leave out the Desert Eagle), and to round it all out a good ole Smith & Wesson Model 686 with Pachmayr Grips. I am also glad that the FN Five-seveN is in it, I just wish they gave it a proper two-handed grip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:09, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::About the PSG-1, ALL the weapons looked terrible in Black Ops. JazzBlackBelt, I'd be worried if you took heat for not wanting quickscoping on this website, that would seriously worry me :/ And, yeah, pretty much what you said. As for balancing an AA-12, no, it can't be done, everyone go watch FPSRussia's AA-12 video, especially when he one-hands it; you can't balance that. They just made the pellets disappear after (literally!) 10 feet in MW2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:04, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::'not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs' Haha, as a regular LMG user this makes me sad :( I don't think LMGs are 'noob guns' if employed properly, they are fairly essential in defensive roles if playing gametypes like domination in which points NEED to be effectively locked down. However, I will concede that the majority of players who DO choose LMGs do so in order to hold the trigger down and hope 2-3 of their 100 round belts hit, which is just not on. As for quickscoping, I can't stand it. I feel it's cheap and 95% down to aim assist (though obviously not on PC). --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:29, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::I'm so ''sick'' of the term N00B, ugh. I'm not going to give my "wish list" cause IW is gonna do what "they" want and not listen to "us", I stopped playing COD games at WM2. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::75% of the LMG users use them improperly, like running around not really aiming. I still get annoyed when they kill me (I get annoyed at pretty much everything when it kills me) but if they were actually using it properly it makes me feel a little bit better. As I play on PC there are still annoying players that play outrageously, but on PC virtually nobody uses the mic (on CoD anyway) so I don't have to listen to them talk!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:25, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::I'm the same, though I think getting annoyed is part of the fun. It must be, otherwise we wouldn't keep playing. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::Nah, getting annoyed is never part of the fun, the game is good enough that we can clinch our teeth from the few annoying things and still enjoy the game. ;) (At least in MW1 for me anyway.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::I've never been that keen on CoD4, definitely not on PC anyway. The maps are far too small for the amount of players each server has :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:33, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Love COD4 on the PC, I love the 24 to 50 players on those "small" maps, 50 players makes it a true war! I prefer playing on Hard Core mode, just love it, no HUD, 1 or 2 bullets to kill someone, that's the way all the COD games '''should''' be by default. :) Never played WM2 or BO, they're too silly and Hollywood. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:22, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::::COD4 is by far the best CoD in my opinion. I play on PC, but I hate when there are too many players on a map. I aim for servers with about 4-15 players. Likewise, I love the big maps on BC2, but only when there are enough players.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:53, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Aside from seconding the inclusion of a bigger variety of combat pistols (note that by "combat pistols", I don't mean Desert Eagles, S&W 500s, and the like), the only weapon I'd like to see is a Mark 12 SPR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:48, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be for more Shotguns and to have them placed not ONLY as secondaries, but Primaries too. For example, I'd love to have the semi-auto M1014 or the 1887 as a primary but have a smaller sawn off shotgun or a compact pump action as a secondary, like a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser. MW2 with it's secondary shotguns was a bit of disappointment with me. I'd love to see more real life mainstream shotguns instead of the damn SPAS-12, it's overused for god sake, just start adding the 870 or the Mossberg, I wouldn't even mind if it had all the "Tacticool" crap on, as long as it was either the Mossberg or 870 underneath it all. But overall, more pistols in general, maybe a sniper rifle with only a single shot fire capability, a G3 Rifle from COD4 and maybe some really old weapons, like a Bolt Action Mosin Nagant or a Lee Enfield Rifle. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:36, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:How about NO shotguns as secondaries? IMO primaries should be the rifle/shotgun and secondaries should be pistols. Two shotguns? A little bit overkill and unfair.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:58, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I don't know, there is something crazy fun about running around with a M4 and the semi-atuo M1014. Unrealistic, and ridiculous? Maybe, but can't deny that its fun. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:02, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be that we could choose our equipment before the missions. There are some, I suppose where that would be unrealistic such as the 'No Russian' from MW2, but I think it would give everyone a bit more personal or in depth experience if they could choose their kit. I love the idea that we could get the flip up magnifier for an EOTech sight, but in general I prefer how much less of the screen is taken up by the red dot sight from MW1+2. I don't know enough about programming to understand if this would be impossible, but right now I have a bit of a crush on the Bushmaster ACR and would love to play levels with that, and in a few months when I'm having another of my HK 41X kicks play the game again with that rifle. Living in the UK my PC is the closest I will get to these guns, and I think everyone would have more fun if they could personalise their kit rather than have it chosen arbitrarily by IW/Activision who, I doubt, could not come up with one reason, good or bad, for giving you the equipment that they do. One specific request Sig Sauer p226 in .357 sig, they won't do it but you have to have dreams. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:00, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

A Weapon Loadout wouldn't be too hard. Medal of Honor: Airborne did the same thing. Maybe, completing missions, unlocking achievements/trophies (and a separate means on PC and Wii), unlocks new weapons to choose. - [[User:1morey]] June 20, 2011 8:50 PM (EST)

Two main things I'm hoping for: First, I want my F2000 back, but I want IW to get the unique optics right -- the EGLM sight on the real F2000 is magnified, so in-game, it should be the ACOG scope that looks like the EGLM, not the Red Dot. Second, I want a Springfield Armory XD or XD(m) pistol, preferably in .45 caliber; hell, I'd settle for the Croatian HS2000 that the XD is based on. I have a few other wishes (XM500 instead of M82/M107), but those two are the only ones that really have any chance of coming true. - [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:13, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

When will CoD learn? i love CoD but its seriously going down hill from CoD4. they had nice, popular NORMAL weapons in CoD4. M4A1, AK, M16, 1911, M9. now their bringing in stuff that knowone has ever heard of. is it too much to ask for a normal Glock? maybe a 17 or 21 in place of the USP. maybe use some pistols actually being used by actual SF Operators like the Glock, Sig, 1911, Springfield XD. and what is up with the Russians carrying FAMAS's. just looking for a call of duty that had the same quality and standards as COD4.. anyone with me on this? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:59, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:What? The USP is WAY more "normal" that the XD [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

i'd give it a few years, its been tried to replace the M9 (as did the hK45), its employed by a few police forces, im sure its being used by SF. and PS im pretty sure that most people would hand in the USP for the newer more ergonomic hK45, or the P30(same thing but in 9x19/.40S&W) [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 21:07, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:But... The HK45 only holds 10+1 rounds where as the USP45 holds 12+1. :B By decreasing the grip size for smaller hands and better ergonomics it lost 2 rounds. :( If someone made flush-fitting 12 round mags for the HK45, I'd buy it in a heart beat. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:25, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:I would take the fully ambi version of the USP45 over any other handgun. Period. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:05, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74u ==

Shouldn't the section for the aks74u on the page be titled "AKS-74u" and not AK-74u with quotations? IMO it's the same as calling a Glock 17 converted to full auto a fake Glock 18. I don't believe in the "call it what the game calls it" method because that is incorrect. I think we should definitely mention that the game incorrectly names it in the description, but the title should be the actual gun it is modeled after.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:47, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:It uses that title because the weapon is actually a replica of the JG "AK Beta-F" Airsoft gun, not an AKS-74u; it's a mess of different AK variant bits and pieces (mostly AK-47) that's shaped a bit like an AKS-74u but certainly isn't one. Hence it's a quote-unquote AK-74u. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:23, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just as Evil Tim said, it's only similar to the 74u in name, it's a bunch of different AKs, and it's not even a 74, it's a 47 anyway. Someone could copy-paste the description from the COD4 page. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:43, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

::Then shouldn't it be titled the model of the airsoft gun? All other pages I have seen that use airsoft guns as stand ins for real guns have the gun(s) it is modeled after and in parenthesis the airsoft gun. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up as I'm not much of an AK expert.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:25, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::It's not exactly the same as the Airsoft gun either, though. On a movie page where the gun in question was being used to play a real one, yes, you'd use the name, but here it's a fictional gun ''based'' on an Airsoft gun, so you just have to go with what they call it in quotes. That's how it's normally done for Frankenguns and fictional custom weapons in games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:Well, technically the only difference is the bakelite mags, but "AK-74u" looks WAY better than "AK Beta-F". [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:19, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::There's some minor differences in the layout of the gas block and front grip (check the CoD4 page images) and I'd agree it looks better to call it by the game name in quotes; it also makes it easier for someone looking for an ID of the weapon to actually find it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::The gas block and grip just look like fail modelling, but they are different ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:20, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

Thanks for all the replies, really cleared that up for me. As I said before, I am NOT in any way an AK expert. I had read that the one in COD4 it was modeled after an airsoft gun, and assumed the airsoft gun was modeled after the actual gun, not random bits. To avoid making other people confused I will update the description with a modified version of the COD4 one.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah I know what you mean by not an AK expert, it took me forever to be able to tell what one was just by looking at it for a sec, and there's still a lot that I come across I hadn't heard of. Same with revolvers, even now, they still all look the same to me lol. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:29, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Other than a few Smith & Wessons, don't ask me ANYTHING about revolvers. But hey, that's what this site is for- educating people about firearms.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:56, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:Lol, well said :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:58, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

It is correct that this gun is not an aks 74u and that the term ak 74u "doesn't exist." However, I don't know where the author of the main page got the information that this gun "doesn't exist." It's called an SBR (short barreled rifle) you can look it up if you don't believe me, just type in: short barrel rifle ak. Also, I know for a fact that you can fit an aks 74u type muzzle brake on the rifle. Most, if not all ak type muzzle brakes are compatible with each other. Just sayin'. --[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 16:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I googled, and there's no weapon listed called an "AK-74u" on the first page. If you can find a fullauto AKM-pattern weapon that looks like the one in the game and is called the AK-74u ''by the manufacturer'', then feel free to add it to the page, but as far as anyone can tell it's an "AK Beta F" Airsoft gun. This would hardly be the first mistake CoD has made regarding weapons, CoD1 had eight and ten-man weapons with a one-man crew and MP44s at Stalingrad in 1942-43. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm sorry for the poor communication, the gun is call a "Short Barrel Rifle." Ak 74u is just a nickname of AKS 74u. Look up "Short Barrel Rifle ak" on google. You are correct in saying that the Ak 74u isn't a "real weapon."--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:43, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:SBR is a legal classification of weapons (shoulder-fired rifled guns with barrels 16 inches or shorter) which require a special tax stamp and registration, it's not a specific gun. It's been applied to handguns with shoulder stocks before. What you're finding with that google search is weapons which fit that legal definition. Bear in mind we ''don't'' use legal definitions here, because legally, for example, there's no such thing as a fully automatic shotgun (it's a "machine gun"). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:49, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Regardless of what you say it's classified as, the weapon exists regardless of technical terms. I was merely proving the weapon existed. Even if it is heavily modified.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:55, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Um, you're looking at dozens of different short-barrel AKM-pattern weapons with that search, the only thing they have in common is requiring an SBR stamp. It doesn't really change that ''this'' AK isn't a real gun, because it's an Airsoft gun based on piecemeal bits of the AK47 and AKS-74U. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:01, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, I don't want to debate the issue with you here, I am aware that you are correct about the SBR title and its classification. However, If you look at the weapon posted, you will realize that it is merely an AKM with a shortened barrel, the pictures I found proves that this customization exists. You're going by weapon title whereas I'm going by the weapon itself. A weapon like that could, in theory, exist. With full auto capability and everything. But do what you will, It doesn't bother me at all, However, I think you can agree that this fictional weapon is at least based off a real firearm.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:09, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

The only Aks 74u piece you're talking about is the muzzle brake.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:12, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and the sight, but dude, I don't want to be that guy, I just want to show that this gun could be real, after all, the gun in-game doesn't show any manufacturer or anything, it's just a customized AKM.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:15, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about the fact that the configuration could ''theoretically'' be made into a real gun, though. We know of an ''actual'' Airsoft gun which is mass-produced right now and easily available to be used as a reference, which is all but identical to what is shown in the game. This means it's based on a fake weapon. Whether you could make an actual weapon based on ''it'' doesn't really change that. We say the same of handheld miniguns in videogames which have the "chainsaw grip" from T2 but retain the half-circle attachment point for the ''Predator'' M60 grip: you could make a minigun with a useless half-circle attachment, but that doesn't change that the useless half-circle comes from the Airsoft version we have pictured on the M134 page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:23, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

By all means do whatever you want, you know more about this site than I do, and frankly, I like this site and don't want to get into an argument on it. Either way is fine by me. And I'll leave it as a agree to disagree kind of thing regarding its actual existence. There's not enough evidence to say it does or doesn't exist. So I apologize for my previous remark. I leave it at a possibilty.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:30, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Call of Duty XP 2011 ==

I doubt it, but was just wondering if anyone is going to this? I'm curious if they got all the right guns in the "Call of Duty Armory", which apparently has the guns from CoD in it. You also get the chance to play MW3 for the first time, and a little beforehand reporting never hurt anyone ;).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:00, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:If I lived in the States/had the money to afford a flight to LA I probably would have gone. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot from FourZeroTwo/PKP Pecheneg spotted? ==

[http://a.yfrog.com/img736/504/nceia.jpg]

Looks like the Juggernaut soldier is using a PKP Pecheneg (note the distinctive carry handle on the top of the barrel).
There are some other guns lying around, possible an M14 on the left? Looks like a .308 mag to me....

(also is there a way to post an image directly in a discussion?)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:16, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Anyone else notice the annoyingly obvious Remington and EOTech trademarks? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:03, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah I don't like the trades at all, though I doubt I will use the ACR all that much. Good job on the PKP spot Ghost, think you're on the money there. Have wanted the PKP for a while. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:50, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's not like guns have rollmarks in real life, right?-protoAuthor 21:10, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, I don't mind the trades. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:46, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Each to their own, but they are massive so it feels a little like (very obscure) product placement --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:51, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, I'll take overt sponsorship over price rises. You have to remember that games have gone from something that could be made by half a dozen people in six months to something that takes 150-2,000 (GTAIV) people years and costs millions of dollars, and in real terms games now cost less than they did in those days. For example, the original ''Turok'' adjusted for inflation cost over $100 when the N64 first came out. They've got to get more money from somewhere, and you should be glad that somewhere isn't you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::I think it's brilliant. The MW series has made ACOG and EOTech house-hold names to an entire generation of potential customers. How many twelve year olds knew what an ACOG was pre-MW? Or what a Remington ACR was, or FN SCAR? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:00, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::But can they tell the difference between a Remington ACR and a Magpul Masada? But seriously, I don't mind the trades that much. Sure, they are gigantic and wrongly placed, but will you honestly be focused on that while playing?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:14, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::I suppose not, no. You might struggle to play the game if constantly focusing on your gun's trades. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:17, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Yeah, you guys are right, the product placement isn't too bad, it's just the oversized obviousness that bothers me. Oh, and I'm not familiar with the new EOTech in this game, but isn't the EOTech trade where the buttons should be? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Not necessarily, I believe the model depicted there is the EXPS2, which has the buttons on the left-hand side (http://www.copquest.com/75-8030.jpg) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:18, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Oh okay, it doesn't bother me nearly as much now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:13, 14 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::If you guys have 3 minutes to spare, here's a youtube vid of the EXPS2, which indeed does have the EOTech trade on the back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpw0IigxQM Plus, at the 1:00 minute mark he brings out a magnifier that has the same flip to side capability as we saw in some video for MW3, I don't remember which.
::Yeah, it is a PKP Pecheneg, Confirmed. - [[User:ReikoKotobuki|ReikoKotobuki]]

== ??????? ==
Why haven't all the guns from the Walther P99 to the Heckler & Koch M320 (above) been applied to the main page? Every image containing the guns have been confirmed as official by Robert Bowling.
:They were on Kotaku, which is not a reliable source, and last I heard they said "some of the information released is accurate, some not". If they have been confirmed elsewhere, please post a link.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:54, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

This isn't rocket science. Those pictures were leaked before the gameplay videos were. Look at the M-4 from the video, then from the Kotaku Link. They're the exact same, and the MP5 as well. They're legit, I'm convinced.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 17:04, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:This website operates based on CONFIRMED information. However likely it may be that they are legit (I'm convinced too) we have to wait for them to be in an official gameplay video.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yes, plus, as the template at the top of the age says, all images must be from ''official trailers''. The pics here are still from a leak, even if some of them have been confirmed. I'd say the only time we should use leaked pics is ''after'' the release if they include weapons that never made the final cut (eg the minigun in the leaked STALKER alpha), but never before. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:18, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, fair enough. Sounds good to me.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:24, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Survival Mode Trailer ==

Look HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDQ2Ow-VfI&feature=player_embedded. New weapon spots include...(please identify) at 0:11, (please identify...maybe Scar-H) at 0:14, buy screen confirms USAS-12 and M60E4 at 0:40, G36 at 0:42, ?auto-grenade launcher? (mk.19???) at 0:48, new telescopic lens attachment at 1:25, riot shield at 1:38, FMG-9 and bounding landmine (unknown type) at 2:04. Please update main page accordingly =D --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:24, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

You beat me to it, was just in the middle of writing a post about this! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:30, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Forgot to mention, at 0:42, ACR using 6.8mm ammo --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also 0:52, it IS a mk.19 automatic grenade launcher!!!! --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:34, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think the weapon at 0:11 might be another AR platform weapon, they show more of it at 0:15. I'm thinking LWRC's M6A4 but they're not an exact match. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:: It's the same M4 seen in the leaks and the E3 footage.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Nah that's shown at 0:17, is definitely a different gun. Much longer than the M4, also the rail system, charging handle and rear sight differ. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:25, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Dammit, I was hoping they wouldn't bring back that juggernaut soldier. Also, seeing what they did to that poor 1887 made me cry. One good thing though, deploying a riot shield squad could be interesting.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:56, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, weren't riot shields also available in MW2? I remember seeing them in MW2 videos. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:37, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::Indeed they were introduced in MW2, but only the AI could use a sidearm in tandem with the shield. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:15, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Aww. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also, here's the list of weapons up for purchase during the trailer: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110809195831/callofduty/images/8/8f/USAS_12_Survival_Mode.png Clicky!] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:02, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The landmine device at the end of the video is an IMS landmine. Information here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk. I don't know if we post about that kind of thing, but claymores are listed on the main website. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:36, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

== Colt CM901 ==
[[Image:UK1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UK2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Anyone know what this is? I think it's LWRC's M6A4 but I'm not certain, definitely isn't either of the other AR platform weapon's we've seen so far though

Well, since Infinity Ward loves to put Future Weapons stuff in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the LWRC M6A4 made an appearance as a mag-fed LMG, Black Ops-style. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:28, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ That's what I was thinking, the reload animation looks quite slow for an assault rifle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yet, once again, they have put the rear iron sight backwards :P --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:57, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::Good job whoever identified this as a Colt CM901! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:05, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, that iron sight isn't on backwards. That's the standard BIS for M4's in the Army. Every M4 in our Brigade has that flip up sight. The only thing wrong with it is that it's supposed to be a the standard peep hole, not the night sight that you see on the M16/M4 carrying handles. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 09:51, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::: For reference, I believe [http://www.aresarmor.com/install/media/ecom/prodlg/matechbuis.jpg this] either is or is a commercial copy of the sight he's on about. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:33, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::Yes sir that would be it [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 12:27, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP5K!! ==

Someone throw in the MP5K to confirmed weapons, it can be seen with a holographic in the vid, after the player tosses a purple smoke grenade for AC-130 fire at 1:08 in the newest trailer! :D Dunno WHY they add it in with the regular MP5, but it's confirmed in the bottom right hand corner. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:On it. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:38, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::The strange thing is that the difference is not even noticeable as the guy holds the MP5K close to his body and the buttstock (the buttplate on the MP5K) isn't visible. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:46, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I think it has a buttstock attached, as far as I can tell. I get the feeling this is the only MP5 variant in the game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::::What the about the MP5A2? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:00, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I thought they both looked very similar (buttstock, rails etc) so that's why I assumed they might both be one and the same, but if they're both confirmed as separate weapons then fair enough. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:07, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::They could have misnamed the MP5A2 an MP5K. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:12, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I also think this might be the only MP5 in the game, and if it is the MP5k OR it is a MP5A2 misnamed, I'm going to get angry. The MP5k is a nice gun, but I want to be able to use a full size MP5 again, like the good ole days. Ahh, how I miss COD4...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:17, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::True to that. Well I'm still playing COD4, huaha! >:D I just played Black Ops only for a little while, I completed SP, played Zombies and MP for a couple of hours until I quit due to the frustrating and the annoying, and went back to playing COD4. XD Oh, and I never even touched the abomination that is called MW2. D:< - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I played Black Ops for a while, enjoyed, then played COD4 again and realized how bad BO was. Recently I broke down and bought MW2 because Steam had it half off, and having extremely low expectations for it, I found it wasn't terrible, but just bad. I still play the MP, but I have no idea why.
We saw the teaser trailer and it is the full size MP5. I'd be damn if they kept the MP5K. Seriously man. In Black Ops they had the right idea of no mini Uzi and gave us a full Uzi, I want me full size MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:Hehe. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
::Seriously though, I don't know why they put the smaller variants of everything. MP5k, Mini-Uzi, and small guns in particular like the sawed off shotgun and stuff. Don't even get me started about the excess rails, which appears to have continued over into MW3. 0.o--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:37, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I quite like the MP5K, but for the most part I prefer the full size variants of the weapons they include. As for rails, everybody knows the more rails you have on your gun, the better your gaming experience will be. *Trollface* --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:20, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
::: Needs more Tacticool. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:31, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
:::^ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:58, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

== M60E4 could be M60E3 ==

After looking closely again at the trailer, I have noticed that the picture of the M60E4 is actually the M60E3 from [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Of course we haven't seen MW3's M60 in action yet, but once again, could be another mistake, or just an early development place holder... Here are the pictures for comparison:
* Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-18-50.jpg
* Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:COD4M60E4.jpg

What do you think? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:54, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think they images they're using atm are largely just placeholders until final ones are chosen, so the final in-game model may end up being the E4 variant. Guess we'll have to wait till footage from CoD XP comes out to see for ourselves. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:09, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:: The fact the MW2 ACR image is being used supports that. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:45, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== FAD assault rifle ==

Whereabouts in the spec-ops trailer is the FAD? Someone updated the main page but no pics. Here's a picture of the FAD for anyone who hasn't seen it, looks horrific [http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5347/fad3vv2.jpg] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:Just watched the trailer and am 99% there was no FAD in it. Also, the MP5K is actually a railed MP5A2, and can be seen from the side on the ground when the first juggernaut fast ropes in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:50, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::I thought so. :) And yeah the FAD is pretty horrific looking. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:29, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::OMG that gun looks bleh...i'd rather see the F2000 or TAR-21 again, those are some sexy bullpup rifles. But this time please with correct grenadelauncher placement.--[[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:29, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
: Chrausis, the FAD isn't in the trailer, but can be seen on Sledgehammer's site in image 2 as seen here [http://sledgehammergames.com/]. And Commando, you may be right, but Robert Bowling confirmed on Twitter both versions of the MP5 will be included. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 02:38, 13 August 2011
::Hmm... this could prove interesting... if they pull it off right there could be pros/cons to each version, i.e. MP5k lets you run a little faster but poorer accuracy and MP5A2 gives you better accuracy but a little slower. Of course, they could just be making the MP5k a secondary, which would make me pretty mad.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:10, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::It's kinda hard for MW3's MP5K to be a secondary with that A2 stock. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::::That was the MP5A2 we saw, just with rails.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:24, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::But the HUD said "MP5K Holographic". :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:15, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::1of 2 things is happening. 1) IW has REALLY screwed up this time and put an A2 stock on a MP5k or 2) the HUD is just a placeholder from MW2 and will be updated. I can't tell if the handguard is full length or not from that clip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:42, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I think there going with the Machine Pistol Secondaries again, perhaps the MP5K is in the Machine Pistol Slot now, makes sense, considering it's smaller profile and IW's reputation, given that they had placed similar weapons in the catergory such as the MP9 and PP-2000. Might have a smaller magazine capacity or trade in something else over the full size version like firepower or accuracy. I know that one theory of mine, is that the A2 version may function similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung 40mm Grenade Launcher. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:26, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::The GSN-19 is a '''30mm''' grenade launcher dude. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:16, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I was using that as the US equivalent, the only other '''30mm''' Grenade Launcher I see in use by US Forces would be the 37mm and that's usually designated to Police Riot situations and signal purposes, not exactly a great combat multiplier on a Sub-Machine gun. And did I mention the GSN-19 anywhere in that description or saying that it was '''30mm'''? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 01:23, 19 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::You said "Similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung '''40mm Grenade Launcher'''" <-(referring to the '''30mm''' GSN-19 that mounts to the AKS-74U). Just making a correction. Anyway I see a 40mm grenade launcher being mounted on a MP5 kinda silly, Half-Life anyone?
:::::::::::Well this is Infinity Ward we're talking about, and they have been known to make alot of things silly in past games, like mounting a M203 or a Shotgun on a TAR-21 without any proper mounting brackets or by having the 7,62 M240 LMG being LESS powerful than the 5,56 L86 LMG which is ungodly powerful. So I wouldn't exactly call it far fetched for them to add a Grenade Launcher to the MP5, it's technically feasible, Treyarch and Infinity ward do seem to have a habit of copying one another in some way. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:19, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Purchase Weapons like Black Ops? ==

Was just curious after watching the Survival Mode trailer, anyone else think that IW maybe following Treyarch's example and giving all their guns, equipment and killstreaks price tags in the Multiplayer Armory instead of unlocking them with experience and further ranks? I personally enjoy the idea, as in Black Op's it worked quite well, I could buy what I want and didn't need to work too much in order to get it. It was always in reach. What do you alot think about this? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:31, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:I would prefer the money system. as you noticed, the upgrades where always in reach and it wasnt necessairi to perform a gazillion kills simply to get that one feature unlocked, that i like. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:23, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

:Robert Bowling has confirmed that there'll be no in-game currency (other than in survival mode) but there will be a whole new system in which weapons are unlocked. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:52, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== One handed grip ==

I know its not supposed to be a sim, but a one handed grip on the pistols is going to get old quick [[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:24, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:I agree fully.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:31, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
::Be thankful it's just a one-handed grip and not a sideways 'gangsta' style grip. Though now I've said that... --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
::And they wouldn't even have the shell casings eject into the player's face.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:33, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
::Would make you flinch if you were playing in 3D. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:08, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Well in the real world you only one handed a pistol when your off-hand is not available, ie steadying on something, moving something, holding a flashlight, driving, disabled, etc. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:51, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
::::We all know how the CoD developers feel about the real world...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::lolz. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:17, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

On a lighter note, they are supposed to be bringing back a fully sized MP-5[[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:34, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:Old news pal. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

In Call of Duty if your off-hand is not available it's probably holding another gun. This doesn't seem to be the case so what are we doing, running around with our hand in our pocket? Actually that's less ridiculous than some of the stuff IW has done... [[User:USGIMar29|USGIMar29]]

== Infinity ward when will you ever learn ==

that russians don't use 9mm european smgs in frontline combat i throught Russians used heavy calber Russian weapons.--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

And I hate the EBR why do they have it in there!

know what I hate in COD games is that the player automatically thinks that they know every gun just by playing cOD.But I still like cod enough to play it--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:They don't really care about the minor details. They just want to create a fun game, rather than to do a research about a weapon and recreate it in the game itself. I myself, also getting annoyed of the unrealistically bull**** stuff that the developers put in CoD, especially CoD:BO where 90% of the weapons are anachronistic. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:14, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

We have WAAAAYYY passed the realistic mark with CoD. CoD is basically a playable action movie. If you want realistic, play Battlefield. Depending on how they present multiplayer, I play it because it is fun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, yeah, the CODs since 4 aren't so bad if you just think of them as action movies. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:01, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

did anyone actually pay attention of what i wrote?- nazi fishwife

:You basically went for the rather tiresome 'an unrealistic game scored better in reviews than a realistic game, so people must prefer unrealistic games' line. This is a fallacious argument unless you can prove ''Modern Warfare 2'' scored more highly ''because'' it was unrealistic and that it would have scored less if the weapon choice had at least attempted to make sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

how is it a fallacious argument, action packed less realistic games are statistically better than realistic, slow and boring games i had proof i added all of the scores modern warfare 2 and all of the scores with operation flashpoint 2: dragon rising on the page but it got deleted because it wasn't set out in the acceptible fashion - nazi fishwife

:No, ''one'' unrealistic game got better review scores than ''one'' realistic game. The comparison is flawed, since you assume that ''MW2'' is better because the weapons used are unrealistic choices for the people using them (something no review praised the game for) rather than because the game is better at a mechanical level, or simply appealed to more reviewers due to the more "pick up and play" style of gameplay. I could just as easily claim that since ''Portal 2'' has a higher Metacritic score than ''MW2'', first-person games with no guns in them are "statistically better" than ones with guns. Would you accept this as an arguement for MW3 not letting you shoot anything? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

thats funny, i didn't know that portal 2 was a realistic war game?

:Way to miss the point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:28, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

like when you started talkin about portal instead of a war game who's missing the point??

:Wow you just epically failed basic logic there ''and'' you didn't sign your posts... -.- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

i didnt know logic came into commenting on a website are you fucking stupid or do you just not get what logic is???

:Interesting, your attitude is just as bad as your logic and your name, you better watch yourself Nazi. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

:Popular =/= Good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:: I love the EBR and its still in service. It's not in alot of games/movies so why do you hate it? - Joey1666

You're asking when Infinity Ward will learn? They did, and a majority of them quite the company. What's left of IW is nothing compared to who they used to be [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:09, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I went kinda over board,What I ment about the EBR is not the gun I hate,Its the damage in-game what I hate.Other then that I love the EBR.An about the Russians I was just making a point like it making them look like a terroist army when they are not.Like they could be using a little more Russian weaponry.Right (makarovs men are the terroist if you didn't know),Anyways COD is still my favorite game series.--v 15:07, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[user:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]
----

== Confirmed guns still on Talk page ==

The following guns have been confirmed (either by official trailers or by live gameplay videos), and have already been added to the main page; therefore, they can be removed from the "unconfirmed" list on the Talk page (and IMHO, removing them will help prevent any confusion):
*FN Five-seveN
*Magpul FMG-9
*Colt M4A1
*Customized AK-47
*Remington ACR
*Heckler & Koch G36C
*Winchester Model 1887
*AA-12

== Hopefully this game turns out really good ==

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one folks. Cause to be quite honest, it's good that Infinity Ward got Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software to help in the development of the game, rather than just them doing it all on their own like how painfully obvious it was in Modern Warfare 2 (Not that the game was bad in any way, but it could have spent a little more time in development). After all, Raven Software is famous for it's development of the Jedi Knight games (instant classics right there), The X-Men Legends games, the Soldier of Fortune trilogy and a few Star Trek games here and there, so definitely the Multiplayer aspect of Modern Warfare 3 will be much improved over MW2's, and more fun to play. While Sledgehammer Games was founded by two guys who used to be a part of Visceral Games (a subsidiary of Electronic Arts), and that company was famous for development of 007: Agent Under Fire, 007: Everything or Nothing, 007: From Russia With Love (Pretty good first person shooters back in the day when games in that genre weren't copying the whole 'duck-and-cover-while-your-health-regenerates' system like they do now from the more modern CoD games... *cough* stole it from Halo *cough*), and of course both of The Godfather games and the Dead Space trilogy. So definitely the single-player campaign of Modern Warfare 3 will be much better and probably less glitchy and just ''maybe'', a little more 'realistic' like how Call of Duty 4 almost nailed down. Granted, this game and every other Call of Duty that comes afterwards will never be intended as 'realistic military simulators', and I understand and accept that, since Call of Duty is nothing more than a game you play for enjoyment rather than for the realism. But for what it's worth, I'm really hoping that this game turns out just as good as the first Modern Warfare did, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 06:33, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, couldn't have said it better :D I love how any time someone talks about COD, no matter the opinion, COD4 is ALWAYS mentioned as being good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

== M14 Derivative Spotted Possibly M21 EBR ==

Far right picture in second row of confirmed screenshots/concept art http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/183-more-concept-art-mw3 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:34, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I seen it too, over on the CoD Wikia. So psyched that it's back. Also, it appears Captain Price is back :( Oh well, can't have everything I want :( --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 23:03, 30 August 2011

::YAY! Captain Price!!!! I am soooo happy! Even though I suppose we already knew he'd be back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:41, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:::That art looks so awesome <3 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

If you need proof that some people on the CoD wiki are morons, I got called a troll for saying this doesn't mean the M14 is confirmed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:40, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, they also don't allow real life gun info on the weapon pages. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:52, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:: That was to stop it turning into a load of nerds swinging their virtual cocks around. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:07, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Eh, the result is ignoring misinformation about weapons spread by the games (eg that there's such a thing as an M93R). Not exactly an improvement. Especially when the original games had writeups that talked about the real guns in their manuals. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:03, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyswpn6xzQ Bam.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:50, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
: And it's already been taken down; I think it got put up too early. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:57, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Was this the multiplayer reveal trailer? I've heard it'll come out during the live stream of CoD XP at 11AM LA time. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:41, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
::: In the meantime, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaYrfe1S650 here's] where someone else stuck it up. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:::: I saw a hk usp on a guys back. -- Joey1666

:::::Why would a pistol be on a guys back?! XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:: It's been officially released now; Kotaku has an article with it. Some interesting new stuff in there. Bouncing Bettys, anyone? -[[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 07:46, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: Saw a Mk 46, USP Tactical, Remington MSR/XM2010, SVD. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

this trailer looks epic, when i seen the sniper 2: ghost warrior gameplay i knew they would have the msr on every new war game its in battlefield and this (waiting for homefront two lol)

:Why is the M4A1 still using 20-round magazines *facepalm*. Wanna bet that they will still hold 30 rounds? Using 20-round magazines on a modern assault carbine meant mainly for CQC = retarded. 15:24, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: All footage - http://gamingeverything.com/?p=8478 -- [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

== Equipment List (Not sure if it's leaked) ==

So, I was checking out Call of Duty Wiki for some MW3 news and I spotted this: http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/195-mw3-multiplayer-info-blowout
It's a complete list with all equipment options, not sure if it's considered leaked. But from what I saw up to now some new weapons are:
:1. Mk.46/M249
:2. G36C w/ AG36 (YES!)
:3. PP-90M1
:4. MP5 (NOT the MP5K)
:5. AS50
:6. Remington MSR
:7. Dragunov SVD.
:Plus, the G36C has a really badass reload (kind of MW2 FAL-style) [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 16:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

OHMYGOD OHMYGOD THE SIG P226 WASN'T LISTED UNDER THE PISTOLS SECTION NOOOOOOO ARGLEBARGLE AUUGHH BLARGBLARG *dies*--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:14, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:Is this information considered leaked or can it be added to the main page? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:30, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::I don't think "some random gaming site" really counts as "official" as per the page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:17, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== COD XP 2011 Robert Bowling Interview ==

Shows some pretty interesting snippets of other weapons seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJUJcoCq37I&feature=feedu
I see there is a L118A? / Arctic Warfare Sniper variant, HK USP, PP-90M1, SCAR-L (4:19, appears very briefly as a name tag), P99 Confirmed (name tag), M320 / AG36 (seen on G36C), CM901 (appears with a Tan Finish, Sniper Scope and Suppressor and firing fully automatic) [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

== weapon list ==

the list is supposed to be real and on the site it says the FAMAS was removed and the AK74U and AT4 are campaign only??

someone get proof please

: Well... that list isn't wrong, but there are more weapons than it states. Look at the Kotaku official screens, there's an M240B in one... which isn't listed. So I'd say that there's more than the list would lead you to believe.

:: No m1911 or Fal mentioned... Im dissapointed if that will be the final list. -- Joey1666

:::Yeah I was thinking that quite a few guns mentioned were missing, perhaps they're campaign-only like MW2's Dragunov. I hope not though, <3 the 240. Also the guy on that site claiming that the FAMAS was replaced by the QBZ-95 is a moron, they look nothing alike. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:45, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

I think we need to wait until it's a) confirmed and b) there are some pictures. Remember we're about identifying weapons in visual media, not in blog posts. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:02, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

[[image:MW3M2401.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M240 in MW3?]]

I'm not high right? This is the 240B in MW3 isn't it? --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:10, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:Hmmm, didn't know they made M240B MAG stocks out of leather... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

== Cheeky machine gun gameplay ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3i-vASNb68 Here] is a short video showing some Mk46 and MG36 gameplay. The MG36 is hilariously badly modeled, ultrasadface. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:59, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Until the guy reloaded it and I saw the side of the weapon, I honestly had no idea that the model was meant to be the MG36... Also, from the brief shot I saw of it (during the loadout section) the L86-LSW has made a return. Unfortunately (from my perspective anyway)it's the old MW2 model with drum mag, carry-handle/barrel change and L85 handguard. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

:That's not a real MG36, it is a G36KV "mocked up" as an MG36 > note that it has only four vent holes. Similar to the hybrid in Far Cry. And the gayass juggernaut has no weapon? OMG! Oh and one more thing, looks like there will be no emblem editor, just preset images and titles... hmmm... that's what I call regression. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

::I thought it looked too short to be an MG36, but that's probably the least concerning thing about it: The sights are wrong, the bipod is wrong, the drum magazine is wrong, not to mention the floppy charging handle during the reload sequence. Sort it out, Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:15, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:::EEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! I was so excited when I read there was an MG36, but... never mind :'( If the 240 is in but not on the list that gives hope to other things being in too, like the FAMAS, "AK-74U", and the M1911. I will be sooooo sad if they don't bring back the 1911 AGAIN. This game is looking, well, like another COD game, but seeing some of the COD4 stuff come back is making me a little hopeful. I also dislike Campaign only weapons, makes me feel cheated out of using them. :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:08, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

::::I don't GET campaign only guns. The models are already there, why not just stick them in multiplayer too? Just feels like wasted space. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:19, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Well, it means they don't have to be balanced for multiplayer use. Games where all the singleplayer weapons are designed to be fair to other players who don't exist are kinda depressing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::True, but the weapons that do feature in both single and multiplayer have different stats. For instance, in Black Ops the RPK had perfectly controllable recoil in single player, however kicked like a mule in multiplayer to make up for the extra 10 rounds in the magazine. They could even recycle the stats from the previous games the weapons have featured in as they were all considered fairly balanced. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:19, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

The MG36 from Battlefield 2 was also actually a G36KV. The sight rail with built in folding sights looks a lot like one made by [http://www.btdeutschland.com/BT-21142_web.jpg Brugger & Thomet].

Speaking of machine guns, I saw a picture of the PK Pecheneg in first person aiming down the sights, and the belt is on the wrong side. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 15:50, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== PP-90M1 ==

This is not the same PP-90 that the gun redirects the user towards. One is a folding submachine gun, the other is a helical-fed submachine gun. They are two entirely different weapons, at least, according to Wikipedia: "other than sharing a manufacturer is unrelated to the similarly named PP-90M."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-90M1] Also, if it hasn't been done already...looks like the PP-90M1 needs a page to itself. [[User:Arcdash|Arcdash]] 07:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)
:I fixed that already. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:08, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== WTF ==

In the new 'tango down' trailer, there is an m16a4 custom, that looks like a rocket launcher with parts of an m16a4 on it.
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DuUIy9snIk-E%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded (you need a YT account to view this)-teobery
:Are you talking about the thing at about 45 seconds? looks like a remote ground drone that has a rifle/machine gun in the centre of some sort with missiles firing from the right side. Apart from that the only other thing that looks like a rocket launcher is pretty obviously just a rocket launcher, SMAW I think. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:40, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

No, it's at 53. If you look at the bottom right hand corner you see it saying 'm16a4 custom'

Lol that's the M153 SMAW, the reason it says 'M16A4 custom' is that the player has expended their ammo and the game is auto-switching to their primary weapon. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:58, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== More vids are out ==
More vids have been released from the XP event. Here's what I've seen.
* Brand-new reload animation for the G36C. I can't describe it that well, one of the MP vids for the "Kill Confirmed" game mode features it.
* USAS-12 uses the box mag and is restricted to 6 or 8 rounds a mags (couldn't see that well. MW still using pictogram ammo counters)
* There are 2 different MP5 pickup icons. One is a stockless MP5K with a 15-rd mag, while the other is a full-size and full-stock MP5 with the 30-rounder.
* MP9 has a slightly altered reload animation (character now give the seated mag a tap)
I'll try to grab as many of these vids as I can and get you guys caps if possible. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:39, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

:MP5K is likely placed as a Machine Pistol Option while the MP5 is featured as the Primary Option, if thats the case I can predict people running around with both MP5's. HK Fanboys incoming, not that there's anything wrong HK [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:17, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::The problem is if people can have machine pistols and SMGs as sidearms, why would anyone use pistols? I do, but almost no one else will. I saw a video where a guy pulled out his FMG9 and got a triple kill in half a mag in one burst. How is that a sidearm??? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:52, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::A lot of people will have ridiculous secondaries anyway thanks to Overkill :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:21, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::::The thing that gets me is why does this game have two full-auto shotguns when they're almost identical performance wise? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:15, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::That's wierd too, but I'll bet they don't shoot farther than 10 feet, so it won't matter that much :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:52, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Not to mention that on what information there is on the two auto-shotguns so far, they still only fire from 8 shot box mags...whats the point in having a full auto 12gauge if your mag is empty in two seconds and then you get killed while reloading...they better give em drum mags [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 06:45, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::If they get drum mags, I will not be playing this game. The tiny magazines are the only thing that balances them. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:50, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::: Alex, the answer to your first comment is that pistols have a much faster draw animation, so they are good for those times where someone's rushing and the gun's magazine runs out. Then, you instantly pull out your pistol and kill th enemy. So basically, they're faster and lighter than anything else, which I believe is their real life purpose. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:04, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Do we have to talk about this again? The developers don't give a s*** about realism. They prefer to create a game that focus on fun rather than simulation like ARMA\Operation Flashpoint-style games. They don't really care what family of weapons does the MP5K belongs to or how the AK-47 operates or what is the bullet-count of a SVD magazine. You and me and everybody else can turn over the whole world just for this kind of problems, but eventually it won't change a thing. The ''Call of Duty'' is a franchise that is intended to the casual players, featuring run-'n-gun/spray-'n-pray style of gameplay, dozen of weapons, crap like perks, killstreaks or whatever, ranking system, challenges, multiplayer service with social-networking in half-payment and the list goes on. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:33, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:I pretty much gave up expecting COD to be realistic since MW2. :/ And then I completely gave up all hope after Black Ops. ._. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:07, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

::Same here. It's amazing though, how reality can actually make the game better balanced. That's what the BF3's weapon designer is doing, little things like if you attach a suppressor you use subsonic ammo, it travels slower and drops sooner, making longer ranged shots difficult. This should probably be on the BF3 page, but oh well. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:16, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Exactly. And that is the deal: BF3 = Intened to have realistic gameplay. CoD = Keeps casual fun-style gameplay. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:37, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons ==

I noticed that the guns in this game that have appeared in the other modern warfares have been "modernized". The M4A1 Carbine is a stark example.
notice how as they progress, they are more "modernized".

[[Image:M4_4.png|thumb|none|400px|Modern warfare M4A1 Carbine.]]

[[Image:Mw2_m4a1_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Modern warfare 2 M4A1.]]

[[Image:CODMW3-M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Modern Warfare 3 M4A1.]]

:I'd say the MW3 M4A1 is less modern than the first two games, because IT USES A FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINE. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:54, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

::Not to mention the same ongoing mistake with the fire selector switch set on Semi-Auto while the weapon's actually fires on auto :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 18:56, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::At least his finger isn't on the trigger? That's something, right :D? Aside from a few inaccuracies, this M4A1 still looks far better than whatever they've done to that poor G36KV. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:21, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

::::The G36KV is bad, isn't it? Too bad, really too bad. Some cool weapons can be uncool when or if they get to the hands of the wrong people. If developers work with military experts or something like that, so I feel sorry for those guys as they don't look at the minor details. Eventually, the point is that even so MW3 has inaccuracies (as always in the case of CoD), the game gotta be at least better than the previous ones. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 19:38, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Sorry i had to use pictures from this website but i couldnt find any others.- [[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:I like the MW1 M4A1, almost stock but with a bit of personality. KAC rail system, 16" barrel, and an old-style stock. Also, the graphics get worse with each one :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:19, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::Actually the graphics get better but they also get more "tacicool", and a FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINE. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:09, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:::LOL. I wounder if the magazine will actually count 30 rounds even though it's a 20-round mag like in Call of Duty: Black Ops (I believe they got the idea from this game, :P) and why they decided to use 20-round in a Modern Warfare-era (duhh!)... OMG! war games can get pretty annoying sometimes. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:42, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::::It's not a war game, it's an action movie simulator! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:29, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Haha, "Action Movie Simulator" is what I'm going to call it from now on :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Maybe the guy who designed it has just watched [[24_-_Season_2#M4A1|24]], and if its good enough for Jack Bauer its good enough for you. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:07, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:Well Jack had no choice but to use FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINES, the game developers did. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:28, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::Better than 10 round magazines I suppose --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:01, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Even if it was a 10 round magazine IW would make it hold 20 rounds, because you suck and they hate you. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:24, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::::I wish you would stop reminding me of this :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:40, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

== Robotic-M249? ==

I was curious about the robotic-M249, and searched the internet for something similar and found out this:

[[File:SWORDS_robot.jpg|thumb|none|350px|]]
The robot is called "TALON" and it has the "SWORDS" system. This robot was produced by Foster-Miller robotic company.

Then I looked at the in-game:

[[File:M249_sentry.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Could be the same one? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 14:13, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:I will use this at all times, so cool. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:14, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::Hopefully this will be far less annoying than the RC Car in Black Ops, seriously who thought having a remote controlled bomb which is small and hard to hit be a useful killstreak for a game!? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:27, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Actually more like: Who the hell though that there were remote controlled cars in the '60s? :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 06:30, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

::::It's a 10 point streak and is lol slow from the looks of things, so seems pretty balanced to me. I bet it's really easy to take out. Doesn't stop it being awesome though >:O --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:32, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== KSG-12... Double Barrel??? ==

There's a something recently I've seen on a youtube video of MW3 loadout screen with the KSG is that the KSG operates like a Double barrel shotgun from previous games as it's described as "Double Barrel" on screen. Which has led me to some confusion, I know the weapon is actually a pump action but does this mean that some people are believing that because it uses a dual tube system that is infact some sort of weird pump action double barrel? It's led me to some concern regarding the weapon, but I wanted to hear people's view on what Infinity ward might have mocked this up as? Here is the video link btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAmxpx6bzk&feature=relmfu go to 0:34 to 0:35 to see what I mean [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:53, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:I've heard from someone who attended CoD XP that the KSG still operates as a pump action shotgun in MW3, so I don't know if it fires two shells at once? Either way, fail, Sledgehammer :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:23, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

::Hmm, there is no Vector, nor Skorpion. Also no M240B nor FAMAS? Wtf? The Skorp and MP5K (if there is at all) will be secondary probably. Also, THANK GOD no Akimbo for primary SMGs, so no gaylords running around with two P90's :) P.S.: DId you notice "MK14". Well better late than never, right? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:00, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
:::I had a feeling that IW was going to screw this shotgun up. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:02, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
::::It will fire laser portal bullets. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:02, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::And be powered by a secret alien micro plasma Arc-reactor from a pocket universe (shhhh, don't tell anybody, it will ruin the games plot) '''AND''' it will have a built-in sandvish spawner! . - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:20, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Don't forget the rail-mounted rail mounts with grenade launchers on each. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:52, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== FAMAS ==

I really think that the FAMAS on the pic is actually a G36C. The carry handle is too thin and low to be a FAMAS. Not to mention that there will be no FAMAS (at least in the MP). Anyways, I won't remove it from the page till release. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:18, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

:You very well may be right sir. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:06, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

I don't think so, carry handle is way too high to be for a G36C, it doesn't have a skeleton stock, and I think you would be able to see the magazine with the position it's in. Also, if it was a G36C there would be handguard in front of the carry handle. Could be that the Norinco QBZ-95 is actually a Norinco QBZ-95B. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:59, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

:Another possibility. I'd be more inclined to believe it was the QBZ-95B over the QBZ-95, as you say. Then again, it may still be the FAMAS as a placeholder or SP only weapon. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:12, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

:: The weapon in that screen is definitely, definitely a FAMAS. Down to the Troy-esque irons from MW2 being visible. It is probably just a placeholder, or they're holding out on us somehow. Still doesn't explain the M240B being spotted in the more recent screenshots released at Cod XP, but not the Multiplayer weapons menu. Either they've made the horrible mistake of making a bunch of weapons SP only for no reason, the weapon list shown at Cod XP wasn't the final build, or these weapons seen in previous CoD games will be available as Prestige Rewards/Veteran Rewards. They've stated that there will be rewards for people who have prestiged in previous MW games. Also, with the Prestige Shop... the sky's the limit. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:17, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

:::I am hoping that it isn't the final list, there are quite a few missing that I would very much like in there. Hope Sledgehammer don't pull a dick move and omit them. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:07, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

:::: *cough* Price's signature M1911 *cough* [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:44, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

::::: Agreed, I still die a little inside knowing that it was in the Museum in MW2, but not in Multiplayer. To be honest, I really see no reason for them to -not- include all the weapons from previous Modern Warfare games. If they just, carried over the weapon list from CoD4 and MW2 into MW3, that would be an amazing amount of variety in Multiplayer. I see no reason why they couldn't just do this. I'd love to use the G3 from CoD4 in MW3, and the FAL from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 23:13, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::As nice as this would be, there would most likely be not enough disc space (aside from PS3) and thus multiplayer would have to be included on another disc. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 02:30, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Well in Black Ops there were really only like two ARs and two SMGs because they pretty much all had the exact same stats, there's no way this could be MORE useless. I'm kinda glad the COD graphics (etc) don't get better, because I still play MW1 and don't feel like I'm missing anything :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:34, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

Thing that gets me is with the FAMAS, G18 (I didn't see it in MP footage, could be on the list), RPD, and the FAL these are the same weapon models from MW2 presumably. But, the AKS-74u and the M240B are unique weapon models for MW3. The last time we saw an AKS-74u-type weapon was in CoD4, there wasn't one at all in MW2 and from the leaked screen, it looks to be a completely new weapon model. So why would they make new weapon models, just to leave them out? The M240's is largely the same, except the way the irons somehow disappear or fold down when using a RDS, which didn't happen IIRC in MW2. Granted, the SVD was a different weapon model in MW2 and they didn't include it... but... just doesn't make sense to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

:The 240's irons do indeed disappear when an optic is attached in MW2, so I guess it's just lifted straight from MW2. Not that that's a bad thing imho --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:03, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

== HAAAA! I was right! ==

I was right when I said that there will be no MP5SD in the game (section #14 on this page). Check out the suppressed A2 [http://cdn.steampowered.com/v/gfx/apps/115300/ss_6d429f8fd41fb63a22c04069b6317ea48e49c8d7.1920x1080.jpg?t=1315587884 here]. So gimme my cookies! >< - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:39, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

When you stop being smug and arrogant. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:05, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

:He's just being silly, not smug and arrogant. (rolls eyes) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:14, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

If someone was congratulated for saying the COD wiki was wrong this page would be one long backslap. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:41, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

Hey, we try. Although [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:CM901#Semi-automatic.3F I did have to correct someone for saying the CM901 was the SP simply because I'd put an SP image on here for lack of a CM at the time.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:00, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:For the record: I did not mean to hurt the feelings of the COD wiki members. I am sorry if I sounded like that. I only wanted to say that there is no SD2 in the game, not that the COD wiki is being run by nooobs. FYI the COD wiki is far the best gaming wikia on the internet. And IMFDB also has a lots of wrong ID's. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:56, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTBPdVpdMc] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:28, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Not saying anything bad about the COD wiki, but Halopedia(n) is by far the most well done and maintained gaming wiki that I've seen. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:07, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::::I agree. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Then you haven't seen the Mass Effect wiki; it's almost flawless. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 14:26, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Oh that's cool, I haven't played any of them yet; on my to do list :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:11, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Say what?!?!?! It's a great game although I've got to admit I didn't play them until after the second one came out. Give it a shot if you have the time you'll probably enjoy it. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 16:34, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

== So... ==

[[Image:NYHarbor MW3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Seems in ''Call of Duty'' land, naval battles never quite got past the "Trafalgar" stage. Wonder if there's some galleons exchanging broadsides in there somewhere. Then again, since it's been seen time and again that handguns are a more effective way of killing people in CoD than airstrikes, helicopter crashes, high-calibre cannon rounds and even dogs, perhaps they have to get really close and try to use their sidearms to one-shot each other. Or it's Treyarch and they're just trying to throw so many grenades onto each others' ships that they sink under the weight of the shrapnel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:16, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
:Also, some of those superstructures in the background look big enough to be battleships. If there are ''Iowas'' fighting at that range and the US isn't just flat-out ''winning'' it'd be pretty dumb. Any modern surface fleet versus a battleship at that kind of range would be a completely one-sided massacre. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:05, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
::I think the big ships with the pointed superstructure in the background are probably meant to be Russian Slava Class Crusiers. I would guess that the US have lost at this point, as the carrier is plainly sunk and it looks like the Arleigh Burke on the left is going down too. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:40, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

== Beretta M9/92FS/etc ==
I think we should include the M9/92FS/92SB under handguns since the box cover art of the soldier carrying the M4 has a Beretta (identified by its open-barrel design) strapped in his holster as his sidearm. Although I'm not sure if it'll see a return in the gameplay, it should be noted. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 00:21, 28 September 2011 (CDT)

== Remington MSR ==
The rifle labeled as the MSR looks too long for an MSR and I think it might actually be a Remington XM2010 --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:18, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:It's been confirmed as an MSR in the multiplayer create-a-class, although I'm not entirely sure if they modeled it correctly, since the chassis for both the XM2010 and the MSR look similar. My guess is that it is. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 19:53, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

== New trailer ==

Today they released a new trailer for the SP, which shows many many spoilers so be warned!
Click here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKgDVruHfo&feature=youtu.be

Any thoughts? IMO, the trailer is great, though still doesn't wait for the game too much :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 16:08, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

:As someone who isn't a huge fan of COD after COD4, this is looking better, though, the singleplayers were always at least pretty good :) Price has a DEagle at 0:25, but you can see his M1911 in his holster at 0:43!!!! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:55, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

::I wonder if Price is going to die again. He seems to make a habit of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:03, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Haha, him and Soap will both almost die again, it's a tradition ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 10 October 2011 (CDT)
::::A response to the first sentence: How the hell can an official trailer contain spoilers? roflcopter - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:46, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Because obviously it shows scenes from the campaign missions, which can some of them if not all, can ruin the experience. Were you really serious about asking that question? :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 15:20, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

You can see Price pulling back the slide on a 1911 as he comes down the stairs. Most likely his Springfield from the last two games- hopefully it's actually usable in this one.
[[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 14:16, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

:No, that was the Desert Eagle, but you can see the Springfield 1911 in his holster, notably at 0:43. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:26, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

== Equipment of Captain Price ==

Do you guys think that Price, being a SAS member and not Delta Force member, would have better had [http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/weapons/browning-high-power.php L9A1] and [http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/weapons/c8.php L119A1] instead of [http://deltaforce.americanspecialops.com/weapons/colt-1911.php M1911A1] and [http://www.americanspecialops.com/special-ops-weapons/m4a1-carbine.php M4A1]? Or is there something more to it?

Also, do you think the image of him, holding Desert Eagle, shows off his, ahem, inner mall ninja?

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:15, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

LOL :) Or a P226. I'm currently building airsoft versions of his two main weapons, and I like the project value in making the AR-15A3 and SA Loaded 1911. Hell, I'm building the AR from scratch :O While those would've been more correct, I personally like those two. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:08, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

From CoD4:MW onwards, non of the titles were 100% accurate about weapons, equipment, vehicles and even factions. Of course it would be better to see Price carrying SIG-Sauer P226 or L9A1 and C8 Carbine instead of what he carries now. This goes to the rest of the main playable and non-playable characters. So eventually, what we're talking about here is the matter of accuracy, and as I said, non of the titles starting from CoD4:MW were even close to perfect about that case. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 08:18, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about a man who died on the ''Tirpitz'' in World War 2. Reality and Price are not on speaking terms. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:24, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

Doesnt the 1911 in Price's hand look very awkward. it looks like someone made a cheezy animation in ten minutes. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:50, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:That was a Desert Eagle...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:11, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:Actually the WWII Price was confirmed by IW to be his grandfather. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:36, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

::That's exactly what I was gonna say. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:47, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

::Nonsense, we know that pistols are the deadliest weapon in the world against people with both first and last names in the CoD universe. Price survived being shot with one, and so must be immortal. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:08, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

== dissappointment ==

I find it harder and harder to like CoD. i was all the way up with them from the beginning. Call of Duty:4 is a godsend. great campaign, great weapons, great characters. *SPOILERS* when they killed off Gaz i thought "okay, damn, best character is dead but i guess it wouldnt be a good ending without a great loss. but seriously they have reached a new low. let me be clear i love call of duty, but the simple stupid mistakes they are making, makes me think, if they cant get a simple 30 round magazine right, something we have used since the 90's, this game is going downhill fast. what possible explaination could they have besides lazyness to check the background, um hello Cod4? every other modern game has a 30 rounder. the designers need to listen, they need to fix these stupid mistakes, i think i might be forced to go over to the dark side of online gaming, to battlefield...[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 16:55, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I pretty much agree, COD4 = awesome; the rest = not so much. Not sure what you mean by "dark side", BF3 is gonna be the best game, well, I hate to say "ever", but I can't come up with a better word. Certainly the way to go if you're someone from this site ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:10, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

::I consider BF the 'Good Side' of FPS and CoD the 'Dark Side'.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:21, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

i refer to it as the dark side because im a 'cod fanboy' as they say. and the polar opposite of the fun quick paced matches of CoD is the more team based tactical Battlefied. i 100% agree BF3 will be amazing, however i will never play mp because i hate snipers. they are 'uber noobs'. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:20, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

== semi-unrelated note ==

I was just wondering if they are any console games that are similar to CoD. im a huge fan of modern games, i dont like really realistic games like Operation Flashpoint, but i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions of games. like i said i like CoD i like Rainbow6. and i also would like to no if there is any Glock's in said game (they're very under appreaciated in the FPS world) [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:24, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-10-18T01:20:24Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* dissappointment */

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-10-17T21:55:57Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* dissappointment */ new section

==Discussion==

Oh God, another Call of Duty. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:05, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

AK74su-type(AKS-74u)weapon in screenshot as well as FN FAL similar to the one in Modern Warfare 2.

Visible in this screenshot

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/prague_resistance_rioter_civ_02.jpg

Also, there's some type of Sig Sauer pistol in this screenshot on the chest

http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/sas_lmg.jpg

Looks like the M18 Smoke Grenade returns. -[[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:07 AM (EST)

I see a P90 lying on the floor in the premiere trailer, in what appears to be a subway station. Appears to follow the MW2 Design, with the iron sights instead of a built in red dot. -[[User:Timaman]] May 24, 2011 22:09 PM GMT+0

http://timaman.deviantart.com/art/Possible-P90-in-Mw3-210170147

I noticed what appears to be a holstered Colt 1911 on the UMP wielding SAS members right leg, you can see it just above where the picture finishes, at the bottom. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:08, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

:I saw that too, hopefully the MW1 1911 comes back, it better, but it also looks like it could be a P226 with wierd lighting. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

I hope they put an ejection port on the M4 this time.

== Title ==

This page should be moved to "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" since that is the official title. Don't let the "Modern Warfare 2" page confuse you, that's fucked up also. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:49, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I also think that the title should be the official title, so I already changed it. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:40, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

==Issues==

We have no confirmation from anyone that any of these images are legit. Should this page even exist? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't see any evidence proving to the contrary either. We'll live, if it's not legit, then it'll be taken off. Seems like an insanely elaborate hoax to basically render half of a game's weapon arsenal and create a ton of concept art, in addition to the images of the NPC skins and such. You could be right, but, in all likelihood... this is a leak of legitimate information.

If it is legit though, how do we know it's final? This could be a deliberate leak of outdated info and models. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:11, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

Even if it isn't final, it's still worthwhile to put in. The G3 was in a trailer for Modern Warfare 2, and the last time I checked, it was still on the imfdb page.

There is a update to this Modern Warfare 3 leak. Robert Bowling of Infinity Ward tweeted this: "A lot of hype & a lot of leaked info on #MW3, some still accurate, some not. To avoid spoiling the experience, I'd wait for the real reveal." So I'm guessing the leak IS legitimate [[User:SeanWolf]]

Well, as much as I think Bowling is a self-absorbed hipster, this is good. I assume the "tangible" pics and stuff like that are more concrete than some of the story details and map names "Plaza 2", was probably changed/cut. Either way, good for identifying stuff.

Oh god, the KSG. Here's hoping they use both of that weapon's mag tubes instead of restricting you to only one of them --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 23:02, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I am a huge fan of the KSG. Yeah, I really agree with you there. Though, in the previous Modern Warfares, they've limited the M1014 to the capacity of a KAC Masterkey for balancing purposes. Wouldn't get my hopes up.

:My biggest fear with the KSG is how IW or whoever is really making it will make the KSG act in-game. My thought process tells me "Somehow, I think their gonna make it fire like a double barrelled shotgun, two shots at the same time". Given IW's creditability and COD's inaccuracy with real world weapons in game, this to me seems like a likely possibility. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:38, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, but, would it really be that noticeable? I mean, what would be the difference over firing one round? It's still a pump-action, so regardless, you'd still have to rack the pump back. They didn't make the Ranger shotgun or the Olympia fire both rounds at the same time, they're double barreled as well.
:You actually got two firing triggers when you use a single Ranger --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:12, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Which is plausible, because it has two triggers on the real-world model. On the KSG, IF, big IF, they made it fire two rounds at the same time for some reason, they'd probably operate under the assumption that you're switching tubes between each shot. I don't know, just giving IW the benefit of the doubt for now. They don't seem to have messed up with any of their modern shotguns except in the realm of magazine capacity.

I might be the only one, but whats up with that weird aimpoint/ holographic sight combo on the M4? is that even possible?
: Yes, it is. EoTech makes [http://www.eotech-inc.com/product.php?id=50&cat=1 optics] specifically designed to be used in conjunction with their holosights. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:59, 28 May 2011 (CDT)
cool, I never knew that. Thanks

==Winchester Model 1887==
What in the name of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit did they do to that shotgun. *Pukes all over keyboard*. I mean, I love CoD as much as the next person (I just look past the mistakes (Russians with Tavors, and TDI Vectors)), but THAT just looks ridiculous!!! - [[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:09 AM (EST)

I mean, it's the "CoD Universe", IW can make the Russians use whatever weapons they want. It's no different/worse than Special Operations personnel using MP5k airsoft replicas [They did in MW2], or using MG4's for that matter, and ACR's. Call of Duty was never intended to be a military simulator, even less so starting to really become obvious with MW2 [A US Army General firing a revolver on the front lines]. However, on topic, the 1887 never should've been in the game in my opinion. There are plenty of shotguns, and IW seems to just copy and paste things from movies rather than being original. As for the depiction in MW3, at least they made the 1887 unique. Granted, it's silly, but for a game weapon... it's much more fitting to "tacticalize" it.
:Also as far as multiplayer is concerned, the removal of the enlarged loop means that you will no longer be able to flip cock it, therefore no longer able to dual wield... unless IW does it anyway which means that technically the player would be breaking their fingers every time they do a flip cock. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 17:10, 18 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, gonna' have to side with you on that one. IW showers in the over the top, unoriginal, borderline plagiarism from popular movies. There's no logical advantage for them to include the 1887 unless it's able to be dual wielded. But, like you said, they may have tacticalized it to be a "modern lever-action shotgun", whilst taking out the dual wield capability. We'll see.
:I'd rather see them give us a nice lever-action rifle than the 1887 again. Not enough games have them, and it's not like "the army doesn't use them" is a valid excuse in a series where a military firing range has Deagles lying around. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:54, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

I'd rather them just scrap lever actions altogether. Certainly, the argument of "The army doesn't use them" isn't really relevant, perhaps the argument "No army would even consider using it" is more fitting. But when nobody uses an overall design archetype (Lever Action) in a tactical setting, it seems silly to include it as a shotgun or not. In other words, in my opinion, lever actions have no place in Modern Warfare both the game and the concept. 1887 should've never been in MW2, because it set a precedent that it was okay to put absurdly pointless weapons in CoD games.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Several armies not only considered using them but actually did. That's rather more than the number of armies which have ever considered using the WA2000 or Desert Eagle, which last I checked was zero. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:12, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Which armies? Were they in this century? If not then it's irrelevant to the term "Modern". Most, if not all lever-action overall designs were prominent before the turn of the 20th century. No modern military uses lever-actions when they could just be using more modern semi-automatic weapons that operate on various methods (recoil/gas/etc).[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Um, Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1, and there's several modern designs like the Browning BLR. Most sniper rifles in military service are still manual actions (as opposed to marksman rifles, which are the semi-autos), they just tend to be bolt actions rather than lever or pump. Leverguns are just as common in military use as gas-operated rotating bolt pistols, $80,000 semi-auto rifles or off-axis blowback subguns (ie not), and more to the point, the setting of an invaded US means civilian weapons can be included within the setting. For example, you could have a level where you're a Marine who was on leave and only has his hunting rifle and his wits to make his way through enemy lines and assemble with his unit. Or given that such levels usually have a helper NPC, you're the Marine's kid who insisted on coming along to help fight the good fight. For bonus points, reveal halfway through the level that the kid is the Marine's daughter rather than his son; I'd pay good money to watch the forum fallout from that. "Kotick made me play as a GIRL! Now I have COOTIES!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:17, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:You do bring up a valid point, MW3 is based in an invasion US. Theoretically, they could add the civilian weapons for this reason, but CoD has always been a strictly military deal. But then again, MW2 involved an invasion US, and there were no civilian player-characters. Furthermore, "Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1", this game is not in WW1 and warfare/technology has changed quite a lot since then. There is nothing modern about the BLR's design, save for some features that make it easier to use (Moving trigger/detachable magazine), and still... it's not used by -any- military, current or otherwise. Bolt action sniper rifles are just that, bolt action, not lever action, regardless I'm talking about service rifles/shotguns not high end sniper rifles. Lever-action weapons are not common in militaries of this century (21st) by any means. Lever actions should not be included in a modern military setting, year 2000 and beyond. There are no lever actions being used by any current formal military force as far as I'm aware, certainly not the ones we're talking about (NATO countries, Russians). They've got no place in modern warfare because the design has been outclassed by others, hence why they're not used. Even in Khyber pass bootleg weapons from Pakistan/Afghanistan, or South American countries, it'd be a stretch to see them using lever-actions... the design is -that- outdated.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

::Again pointing out that no military has ever used or considered using the Desert Eagle either. Or the SPAS-12. Or the TDI Vector. Or the WA2000. CoD's weapon list has been in la-la land since we had German soldiers with StG-44s at Stalingrad in the first game and hasn't really come back since then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:00, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:For different reasons. No modern military uses lever-actions because they're outdated. Desert Eagle, should never have been in the game, not saying it should. It's not used because it's not practical. TDI Vector, it's not used because it's new and the benefits are negligeble. WA2000, it's a trophy weapon which has a price-tag of a BMW and less than 200 were built, obviously not a choice. SPAS-12, used by various militaries around the world (Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh), in addition to SWAT/SRT teams around the world. The weapons you listed are not used for various reasons, not for being antiquated technology. You can't deny that IW put the 1887 in because it was "badass" in the Terminator movie, that's the only reason. The STG44 thing doesn't bother me, seeing as it was used in WW2, which is the timeframe in which the game was set, though in limited numbers later on in real life. However, the 1887 has no purpose in game or out. The Desert Eagle, has no purpose in real-life but it does serve a role in game (High Damage sidearm with low mag capacity). Thus, the Desert Eagle is tolerable, the 1887 is just pointless. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the section is titled "Winchester Model 1887", not "Weapons that shouldn't be in the game" thus I would focus on this weapon, rather than the others in the game that shouldn't be there in my opinion. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 12:53, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not entirely sure why you're opposed to this, though; we've already got a laundry list of weapons no military would ever dream of using, so one more or less hardly matters. I'm saying I'd rather see a lever-action rifle than the 1887 again, since that would actually be a nice variation from the usual bolts and semi-autos and could be interesting for variation (levers being faster but harder to use while prone). I equally don't see the point of trolling out the antique shotgun again, this time with a stack of silly accessories on it that makes ''Black'' look positively restrained. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:50, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::A lever-action rifle would have been a great idea in Black Ops, but not in the "Modern" Warfare games where they should stick with using the correct "modern" weapons that each country actually uses, plus some other '''sensible''' new age weapons. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:33, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
:My point is that the design incorporating a lever-action, has no place in any modern military setting, at all, shotgun or rifle included. It'd be akin to using a flintlock in a modern warfare video game, it's simply outdated technology on a design level that's no longer used by modern military forces. That is why I'm opposed to it, it's not like the TDI Vector or Desert Eagle not being used (For different reasons, which I explained in depth, none of which includes an outdated design) because they are both modern weapons that incorporate modern designs. Bottom line, if you want lever-actions, play Red Dead Redemption. Granted it's a video game and not a military simulator at that but IW putting in outdated weaponry simply because it was in a movie, when they are supposed to be working with pseudo-real world operators and scenarios, is silly. The tacticalized variant as shown in MW3 is certainly a step in the right direction, if you want a pristine replica of a beautiful antique weapon, again, Call of Duty is not the appropriate place to search for such and nor should it be. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 11:12, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::In what way is it outdated? Modern lever actions fire faster than bolt actions, can use non-tube magazines (even detachable ones) and thus fire pointed bullets, and are of comparable accuracy to bolt actions. Aside from issues with firing while prone (which are hardly impossible to deal with) they're not outdated in any sense of the term, certainly not to the extent a flintlock is. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:30, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the issue of firing when prone is -highly- critical when compared to how modern-day bolt actions are used, mostly/all by snipers who fire from the prone position frequently. They are outdated as service rifles, like I said earlier in comparison to semi-automatic gas/recoil driven weapons. The main revolution of lever action was the rapid-fire aspect and magazine capacity (Compared to single-shot/clip-fed weapons of the era), which have all been outclassed by miles in reference to modern semi-automatic rifles. Like I said,''' agree to disagree''', not going anywhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::No, it's definately an issue of lack of will to do it rather than any technical inferiority. Armies are used to bolt actions in their manual rifles and don't see the need to change to weapons that have ''different'' advantages and disadvantages but don't offer a substantial overall improvement. It's hard enough persuading them to adopt things that ''do'' offer a substantial improvement, after all. Also, I have no idea why you keep bringing up semi-autos, not everything is a marksman rifle. I was never suggesting using a manual action weapon as a replacement for anything other than a ''different'' manual action. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Agreeing to disagree, could refute what you said with evidence/concepts but it's not going to do anything. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

The use of the 1887s in MW2 does make sense to some degree. a lot of countries have strict laws concerning shotguns, some even banning those that have more than two shots like Australia does. though Australia does have loopholes allowing the use of bolt action shotguns AND lever action shotguns like the beautiful model 1887 and the clones. Seeing that a piece of MW2 takes place in Brazil where the 1887s are first encountered, plus the fact that we don't know what the firearm laws are for that country in the MW2 world, and the fact that it's used by the unified Rio de Janeiro gang members who probably use whatever Brazil actually allows... then it makes complete sense. that being said, Brazil also makes many reproductions of existing brands like the Beretta 92f. One can easily argue that in the game, the country is doing the same and even making reproductions of the 1887. And since the gang is now organized, they could easily raid said weapons from the manufacturers. besides... the fact of the matter is that (atleast from what i remember)it's mostly the Brazilian gangs that use that shotgun, the only other place you can find it being under in the weapons cache while holding out in the house until all the data from the computer is transfered and that can be attributed to a person with a healthy obsession with guns...
[[User:Aztec coyote|Aztec coyote]]

==Barrett M107/M82 Error==

It seems IW thinks that there's some sort of bolt/ejection port, being visible on the left side of the receiver of the M107. As far as I know, the left side is flat and the right hand side has the bolt mechanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's like this in MW2 and not in CoD4.

To clarify, it seems that IW has made the M107 receiver open on both sides, rather than just having the bolt handle on the right. Probably should be corrected, but can be lived with. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:57, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

== Gunz ==

Is it just me or anyone else agrees that these guns are f#&king ugly? What did they do to that poor MP5A2? Not to mention the Winchester and the "AK-47". BTW the game will take place around 2012, yet the Russians will still use the "AK-47". Well, it is still better than them using U.S. guns, right? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:26, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

How do you know the game will take place in 2012? If Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare took place in 2011, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is 5 years later (2016), so how MW3, which is a direct sequel to MW2, taking place in 2012? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:39, 14 May 2011 (CDT)
:Sorry, my bad, I thought COD4 was in 2007 since it was releases in that year. I knew that MW2 was 5 years later, thats why I wrote 2012. Anyways, that won't make the difference. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:32, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Again, Call of Duty was never meant to be a military simulator. If you want realism, look at the Battlefield series and ARMA series. Call of Duty has always been a playable action movie, that happens to be based in a real-world (First 1-3, Black Ops, WaW) or fictional (Modern Warfare) war.

Russians have used AK variants since the late 1940's... that's over sixty years of use. What's so outlandish about them using it for another twenty? IW calls it an "AK-47" because that's what people identify as the general AK weapon pattern. It's a video game. How exactly is it better than them using US weapons? Many foreign nations use the AR platform, amongst other weapon systems designed in the United States. Hell, most of the United States' small arms are provided/designed by Fabrique Nationale, a Belgian company. As I said before, it's a "Call of Duty Universe", not an explicitly real world universe, IW has creative license to put whatever weapons in the hands of whatever faction they see fit.

As for the weapons, they look fine to me. Some have been tacticalized, yes, but it makes them unique to the game and in specific cases like the 1887, it makes it more plausible for an almost 130 year old weapon to be included in a Modern setting used by people who have access to better designed shotguns. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I am wondering why we don't see an 870 or a Mossberg in these games? It's weird as well that they would include a really old gun like the 1887 but none of the pump actions. And the SPAS-12 doesn't count because it's been overused in this series to death. I bet for the ACR's reload animation, they are not going to have the model press a button to release the bolt. Most likely they'll just reuse the AK reload animation and have the shooting hand reach over and rack the charging handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:17, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:For the sake of it, I do wish we could have a 870 or a Mossberg in-game, even if it was one of these "Starter" guns. I wouldn't care if it was "Tacticalized" or not, as long as it's there. I could somehow imagine in a perfect world following MW2 as an example, a Remington 870 MCS as a primary shotgun loaded with slugs and a Aimpoint Sight with the Bling Perk while using a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser that was "Tacticalized" as a secondary shotgun loaded with Buckshot. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:43, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Thank God they are bringing back a full size MP5. I am so sick of the MP5K. And what is up with the magazine on the M4? Is it supposed to be a 20 rounder or they messed up the design again? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:19, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:Amen to that! Though somewhere in the back of mind, I sometimes think they're gonna add the MP5K back in as some "other" weapon, maybe if they were to stick to MW2 styling, I could imagine it as a Machine Pistol alongside maybe the PP-2000 and TMP. Also, I can't escape the feeling that IW is gonna try and copy Treyarch in some way by trying to copy Black Op's example with the AK(S)-74U and attach a grenade launcher to it. It would be awesome all the same though. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:55, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well at this point, I've just given up on reload animations in Call of Duty. I agree, I am stoked for the full sized MP5. As for the M4, no clue, could be to balance it somehow? But, these are probably early development screens, wouldn't put it on being concrete just yet. If a MW3 forum goes up, I'll see about getting a 30 round magazine back for the M4 as I did see the MW2 M4 in a few of the screens on the Kotaku locations video. Shotguns, yeah, 870 would be lovely but... I could care less, why use a shotgun when you've got 7.62x51

Seems like they're pretty covered on the shotgun front, except for a traditional 870 style. But, I am a bit worried regarding the LMG's. None shown. Banking on the M27 IAR. CoD4, M4 with Bandolier, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact on Hardcore was my impromptu IAR class, always loved the concept. Either way, would like to see the return of a M249 variant (Mk 46/Mk 48). [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I had heard rumours that the M249 was reappearing as a "Possible" returning LMG. But I had also heard that somewhere, IW was going to make three variants of MG's featured in Multiplayer. Ranging from Light Support type weapons similar to "Black Ops", with 30 round magazines like the HK21 or RPK or just modified assault rifles with a bigger magazine, as well as other LMG's and SAW's like the M249, with GPMG's being the M240 or the M60 and finally mounted HMG's like the Browning M2 fixed into certain tactical positions.

Source? Wouldn't get my hopes up for ADDING any weapon classes, at least until I saw proof. IW tends to want to simplify things, not divide things up and add diversity. However, even if they put all of those types into the overall LMG category, would be wonderful. M27 IAR, Mk 46/48, RPD, PKM, MG3, M240L are my top choices.

However, sniper rifles are a subject of concern for me as well. MW2 including ONE bolt-action? This was a fatal flaw for me, the M40A3 was so much fun to use and the Cheytac kind of sucks. They've got a good lineup of sniper rifles here, RSASS, M107, EBR, but no bolt-action. RSASS is a good move because I've always wanted an SR-25 type weapon in CoD. They need a Russian sniper rifle of course and a few bolt actions (M40A5 or XM2010, Desert Tactical SRS (Bullpup bolt-action), and L115A3 would be all good choices). In addition, I've always wanted to see a Mk 12 SPR sniper rifle in CoD, something that did low damage but had a high magazine capacity. Would be great for Hardcore. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

very exciting looking at those leaked pics....and i gotta say its a nice line-up of guns so far...some old standard ones (M4, AK-47; M107) and some new ones i've never seen before like that KSG or the Magpul FMG (OMG the box gun from Robocop2!!!). Also i'm very glad to see the old 203 gone in favor for the newer M320! The AA-12 is cool but i didnt like it in MW2...it was just not that usefull because the boxmag so was spent within a second. the 20round drum mag would make so much more sence.
I really hope they bring back the M249, preferebly as the Mk46 or even Mk48 and introduce some new Russian MG like the PKM with the Blackwater-Rail System.
One question though: is the KSG something very special or simply a bullpup pump-action shotgun? [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 07:20, 16 May 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, again with the sporterized AK's, dont suppose they actually look at what the Russians use.

:The Russians have been looking at AK's with various rail systems. Take a look at the AK-200. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/27/ak-200-rifle-the-21st-century-ak/. Regardless, it's Call of Duty, not a simulator by any means. The AK in MW3 looks to be a step in the right direction over the airsoft-inspired replica in MW2. The KSG is a pump action shotgun which features the use of two tubes, doubling the capacity of a normal shotgun in this configuration and gives the operator the ability to switch tube magazines once one is expended (Due to magazine capacity laws). But in practice, it features a 14+1 magazine capacity, which is astounding when compared to normally configured shotguns like Remington 870's. Also, it features a twelve and I believe six o'clock rail for mounting of accessories. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:If it's got a six o'clock rail, does that mean we'll be able to stick a Masterkey on it and have a shotgun with a back-up shotgun? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

The KSG is a pump-action shotgun. If you did put an underbarrel-type shotgun on it, then you wouldn't have enough room to pull the pump back enough to eject a shell. Besides, that would be unnecessary and impractical. The KSG had two magazine tubes, so if you needed a breaching round, beanbag round, or etc. instead of buckshot, then you could just switch the feed over to swap from lethal to nonlethal. A question about the MP5, what differences are there between the Navy and A2 model? Other than the lower receiver being metal with a new trigger group instead of synthetic with a German fire selector layout. The MP5 in MW3 looks like a Navy model but I'm guessing there's a reason someone changed it to A2. Just wondering if I was wrong. And how do I automatically leave a sig at the end of my messages? xD new to the site. -

:You use the masterkey as the pump, silly. It's genius! (Or rather, it's no less silly than some of the things the series ''has'' done in the past). Leaving a sig is four tildes (~) in a row. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:27, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:But if you used the masterkey then it would take up all the ro- oh I see what you did there. And thanks for the sig help. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 01:34, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:Plus, any under-barrel attachments have been confined to the Assault Rifle class, and more recently, the AK74su "SMG" in Black Ops, which in real life... is still an Assault Rifle. Shotguns have no precedent in CoD for having under-barrel attachments of any sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Can someone help me identify the weapon the guy on the front-right is holding? Looks like an RPD or RPK to me http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/wtfisthisk.jpg/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:44, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: Pretty sure that's the RPD, yep. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:21, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Only not-yet-seen weapons I saw during the trailer were the P90 at 0:32, FAMAS at 0:35, UMP at 1:04, RPD at 0:52, and an unknown weapon with a flashlight at 0:55, looks to be a bullpup of some sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:38, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: The weapon at 0:55 looks like an AUG to me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

My thoughts exactly, or a Tavor. The barrel looks too thick to be either though, might be a flashlight/suppressor? [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:10, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==HELL YEAH==

the guns are supposed to look rusty and mangled and outdated because its a fully urban war environment like homefont

i think the new model looks badass in a stealthy black camo

does anyone know if these pictures have been confirmed to be real

: Robert Bowling said that the leaks were mostly accurate, likely alluding to the fact that they're from an early build of the game. So some stuff might've changed, but this is what we know so far. What model are you talking about specifically? I don't really see rusty and mangled anywhere, the weapons all look pretty pristine to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:35, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

==The tossed magazine doesnt look right==
In the newest trailer I noticed that a soldier tosses a magazine to the player but it's easy to see that you cant see any bullets in the top of it. I don't know that much about M4A1 magazines. Is there a door that opens when it's inserted into the rifle, did the devs over-look this or what?

: Probably due to either being lazy or being an early build of the game. IW's track record is so-so for magazines, on a normal AR-15 magazine, there are two lips at the top of the magazine and the rounds feed through them. The magazine will spend most of the time in game, being lodged in the weapon, so it's not really that big of a deal to me personally. But you are correct, the magazine model doesn't look 100% accurate. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:06, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Thanks. The real world acuracy and high detail in the MW games is what sets them apart from all the other games based on modern combat. I hope that was just an eary build.

Sorry Anon, but no, if you want real world accuracy play something like ARMA, or even Battlefield, but not COD. The weapons either aren't handled properly, or have thing on them that would never be, or are mounted wrong, or are used by people who never would, or have stats that don't work for the real weapon at all, or are out of scale, and they STILL havn't added +1 in the chamber. For better or for worse COD is a playable action movie, and the graphics literally havn't been changed since COD4. I can't really comment on 1, 2, or 3, but MW fits your description well, it's not a military simulator, but it was quite good. WAW was okay, but it was pretty much just the COD4 Marine missions for the whole game, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot etc. MW2's singleplayer was good but not amazing, there was too much that was just a little too far fetched, and a few glaring plotholes. MW was like a war movie (Saving Private Ryan/Black Hawk Down/etc.), but MW2 is an action movie, that's why it wasn't up to par with MW in my opinion. BO had potential for a good singleplayer, but the had a serious, conspiracy filled plot, and tried to make it a bad ass action movie at the same time, and those don't go together very well. COD games have good potential, but it always seems to get wasted. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

==Plot Holes==
So the campaign takes place in (from what appeared in the leak) New York, France and Germany. Besides the massive stupidity of Russia invading the U.S. East-to-West. How would Russia manage to fight it's way through Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine, the Baltic states and the Czech Republic into Germany AND then through Belgium and Holland to get into France. At this point, I think even China would be over-extended watching over eight modern, democratic nations and be fighting a a war with two of the strongest of these plus the U.S. But at this point Activision could release a fifteen minute demo and it'll still sell millions of copies. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:16, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A possible explanation is that in their new found "ultra-nationalist" rage, they take over or make a new alliance with all the former warsaw pact countries. That would explain a few things on the man power problem, a possible explanation is that similar defense system breaches occur in the attacked areas (like in MW2 DC got waylayed pretty early). Maybe NATO got complacent with the Russian threat and signed a non-aggression pact(WWII). Still I agree with you there is no way in hell they could attack NYC, Germaney, England, and France all at the same time having already attacked the eastren seaboard in Mw2. Seeing as CoD is the 10 ton ape in the consumers eyes, it really wont matter.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 01:44, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

::The plot for London getting attacked is (or atleast was) that terrorists funded by the Russians attack London. The SAS raid part of the Docklands (I think that is East London) where the Russian terrorists are, but basically end up chasing them all over London, ending with a gun fight infront of Parliament (surely we'd also see one of the Guard regiments as well, since they're both in London?). Whilst I'll let the "London's Burning" bit of the plot slide as it is plausible (if ''very'' unlikely), I agree, the rest doesn't seem to make sense. But hey-ho, this is CodMod, where reality takes a back seat so that we can enjoy bombing around in Berlin, Paris, NYC and London... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Guns ==

I like the way few of currently known guns are going. AK-47 looks a lot more like rifle that Russian Army may use some time. It has cheapest Crane Stock and not one of most espensive ones (Yeah, Vltor one is expensive as fuck) and handguard is basically one ris rail on each side with rail covers. Not full plastic handguard. G36 is plain and easy which is both suprising and awesome. M4 seems like its pretty cheap too. I like that Czech Vzor 61 is back, hope it will be in hands of Czech partisans. Anyway, few guns are ugly like fuck. For example that winchester or MP5.

Well, game will suck like all of those "new" CoDs from World At War to Black Ops. But it will be atleast a bit interesting. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:04, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: I don't understand what you mean by "cheap". There's nothing wrong with Crane stocks... The AK in MW3 doesn't even have a Crane stock, it's a standard LE stock, which is a good stock. You don't need a Vltor stock to shoot a weapon accurately. AK rails don't have to be crazy railed hanguards like in MW2, which was largely inspired by an airsoft weapon. See Travis Haley's one-off MAG-K from Magpul, using the Ultimak rail system. The cost of a component doesn't effect how it behaves in game, or in real life for that matter, it's reliability and effectiveness that count. What's wrong with the handguard with a rail on each side with rail covers? That's generally what rail systems are. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:13, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Yes, i know. Thats what i meant. Any army on world (especially Russian) would hardly put shitload of ris rifles on their weapon and overpriced stocks. By cheap, i meant cheaper than MW2.

: I still don't understand what you mean by cheaper. How? Like, in real world money costs? In aesthetic looks? The Russians are putting different rail systems in their modern AK's, see my AK-200 link from Firearmblog. Russia has arguably one of the most powerful and modern militaries in the world, what would discourage them from placing RIS rails on their service rifles like everyone else? Tapco, the company that makes the rail system and stock adapter for the AK in MW2 is one of the cheaper companies in terms of quality and price, Tapco still makes good stuff regardless. Just confused as to what you mean by cheap. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:09, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: No one else ticked off that in any of the videos or demos present, there have been NO new guns? Granted, the AA-12 has a new skin, and so does the MP5, but no drum mags for the AA-12? And to be fair, I preferred the MP5K. But seriously, in MW2's Cliffhanger demo, there was tonnes of new weapons and attachments shown, like the ACR, FAMAS and the new AK. But so far, the only "new" guns that were leaked in images haven't been shown. I'm really disappointed in that. [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 12:12, 14 June 2011

== Pistols ==

Am I the only one completely pumped for the P99 and P226? Hopefully both are usable and rendered well. I tend to get more excited over the pistols rather than assault rifles in video games.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:15, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Nope, you're not the only one. I'm ''slightly'' disappointed that they seem to be going with the 1st-gen model, but otherwise, I'm hoping for the execution, so to speak, to be superb and the rest of the game to be worth 60 bucks. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 23:25, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

I'm looking forward to seeing the SIG pistol too. Always had a soft spot for German guns. I hope it's usable and not just part of a character model ... [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 23:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Looking forward to both, and more. Preferably the USP and M1911. M1911 was epic in MW1 and in MW2 they took it away from multiplayer, and in Black Ops they made it black in singleplayer and chrome in multiplayer for some silly reason. Hopefully they got the silver/chrome out of their systems with the P99 already. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:36, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Part of me says "Yes! A game that you can fire a P99 and it's NOT James Bond." Another part of me says that Hand Guns, unless automatic, serve no perpise in todays FPS world. Oh I miss the Golden days.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:55, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:That's funny, since I PWN most people in FPS' who have Assault rifles or Submachine guns with my '''semi-automatic''' handguns, especially in MW1 with my USP45 :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:53, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::I agree, COD4's USP was amazing. In COD4 handguns were how game handguns should be. Most people suck with them, but if you get good with pistols, they kick ass. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:16, 29 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Yeah, most people in WM1 waste a whole pistol mag by rapid firing at me (even with a Desert Eagle!) and I just double-tap them in the chest, end of story. One time I ran into three guys at the same time in a small room and I just wiped them all out in seconds and then two more showed up (one had a SAW!) and I rapidly took them out before they could fire a single shot. All in all, I wiped out five guys with a my USP45 in about 10 seconds! That's why my friends nick-named me Vincent, you know, from the movie [[Collateral]], because I can take down multiple people very quickly with a USP45. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:44, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::::I start to get annoyed in most FPS when the pistols are severely underpowered. Like in Black Ops- in reality a few shots from the 1911 would put somebody down, but I've had instances where it takes one and a half magazines. I still agree that MW1 got the pistols right, and IMO it is the best CoD to date.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:25, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Thats what I did when I sniped in CoD4. Since I suck at sniping, i usually got more 1911 kills than R700 kills. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 12:36, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I agree, COD4 had pistols right, amongst other things. I am a bit worried about the Machine Pistols continuing from MW2, it's not fun going against snipers who are so well armed. A sniper should have a pistol and his rifle, that's it... not an Uzi... especially not a Raffica that's essentially an M16. Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense. In MW2, snipers use their MP's to assault positions and run around as if they had an SMG. This isn't cool. Regardless, I think they need to make sniper rifles less of a close range deal. People pride themselves on using the Intervention at close range, and using the M40 ACOG to no-scope. This is so against what those two weapons are designed for I can't even think straight. But, this's off topic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:48, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Arg, yes, I HATE quickscoping soooo much, but yeah, the balance to snipers is they only get a pistol, so they (are supposed to be) stuck to long range fighting. Oh, and I hope shotguns are better, not like MW2 1887 better, like MW1 W1200 better. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:43, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
:The funny thing is that real US snipers use a M16 or a M4/M4A1 as they're backup weapon for they're sniper rifle along side a possible M9 pistol which would be a backup, backup weapon. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Don't quite see how relevant this is. As I've said before, CoD isn't a simulator. Also, I distinctly said "Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense", in a paragraph and in a section regarding MW3, a video game, in order to defuse any realism comments. It's simply not fun/balanced, in my opinion. In real warfare, yeah, there's really no room for fairness... but it's a game that can be adjusted to be the most fun for everyone. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:19, 1 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I know, just say'n. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:I understand that quickscoping takes skill, but it still makes me sooo mad. I think that they should find a way to limit sniper rifles to long range only. Anyway, back on topic, I realized that Quantum of Solace actually got the pistols right too. Two or three shots from a 9mm puts someone down and one to two from a .45. This might be because the game really focuses around the P99 and other pistols more than rifles/submachine guns.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Doing something that's silly can still take skill. Putting my hand in the mouth of a Shark and yanking it out again without a scratch takes skill, but it's still silly. Skill can't be the sole factor in weighing an action's legitimacy. There should be no ACOG option for any sniper rifle, especially bolt actions. Period. I'd be in favor of making a 6x or Variable Magnification scope available for sniper rifles (and assault rifles in the case of the former). My point is not that quickscoping is done, it's that IW has created a game in which it's possible. It needs to be made impossible. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:36, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Very well said, it is not legitimate because it takes skill, you might as well put Rock Band gameplay in and FPS if you think like that. COD may ot be a simulator, in the sense of what people use, unlikely events, etc, but every FPS needs to have the weapons used properly, in a technical sense, and so you can't snipe with a compact pistol, or quickscope, etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:12, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

It would be so nice to see a stealth mission where you sneak into a complex (probably as price and soap) to kill a leader and you have to sneak through hallways and vents with suppressed P99's with a fellow soldier like in Prypiat in COD4. WHY cant this happen. It would be a nice change of pace and not feel like a straight rip off of All Gilled Up like Contingency did in MW2.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:37, 06 June 2011 (CDT)

:These are nice additions, but I'm still hoping for an XD or XD(m) -- preferably in .45 caliber. :P [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:03, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==
Is it possible that the soldier catching the magazine could be holding a [[Armalite AR-10|AR-10]] 7.62x51mm rifle? Since the developers finally learned about magnifiers maybe they think they could make a hybrid sniper/assault rifle by using a bigger bullet? I just don't see a reason why soldiers would be using 20 round 5.56 magazines unless they figured out it bigger magazines don't work well in prone. Plus we do see that fire selector switch on semi? I personally think it's a AR-10 with a shortened barrel.
:Sorry dude, but the mag is too small to be a 7.62x51mm, it's defiantly a 556'er. So it's a goof on IW's part, at least for now. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr.
Wolf]] 08:31, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::Here's a thought, in Black Op's they modelled some guns with Extended Magazines when the "Extended Magazines Attachment" was added, perhaps IW has done the same? Maybe the 30 rounders are extended mags, while they revert to 20 rounders for default? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Well that's just dumb. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:02, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::And yet they made it so that an M4A1 could carry 45 round magazines without changing the magazine on the model in MW2. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:15, 27 May 2011 (CDT)
: Yeah, there's no way it's an AR-10. They've already got something similar to an AR-10 in the RSASS, which is akin to the SR-25/M110. Draco, my thoughts as well. It still doesn't make sense, but if extended magazines show up on the gun as a 30 rounder, would work. That in my opinion, is Black Ops' greatest contributing to CoD, taking abilities away from perks and adding them to attachments. Example, the taped/dual magazines in Black Ops, gave a slightly faster reload time and added more ammunition in total. This took an emphasis off of having Scavenger to last any long period of time and allowed people to balance Bling and Sleight of Hand.

: Furthermore, everyone seems to think that IW is making a system whereby one folds down the 3x magnifier and uses the EOTech singularly and vice versa. I really think IW will be using an EOTech as a separate attachment, and a magnified EOTech as its version of an ACOG. I have yet to see a picture with a regular ACOG, correct me if I'm wrong. By all means, it would be preferable to have it behave like in real life where you could use both or the EOTech in different instances, but sadly I think IW may just be saving on development time by combining the two. However, what I think is more likely/logical is for them to include a traditional RDS/Reflex, and an ACOG, while including the EOTech with magnifier as one attachment to make it different from the RDS.

: IW could also be making the M4 with a 20 round magazine because they want it to -act- like a 7.62x51 NATO, i.e. be more powerful, so therefore they'd have to balance the ammunition capacity. IW is notorious for making weapons with silly statistics, like the SCAR-H being 7.62x51 NATO and having a very small amount of recoil on full-auto.

::I doubt that. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::If anything, it seems the most logical explanation for them making a 20 round magazine standard on the M4. The M4 was one of the weakest assault rifles in MW2, so it's logical that they'd try and up the damage on it and offset this increased damage with a smaller magazine/semi-automatic fire rate. It's still silly, but IW isn't dumb. They may not be well known for making a realistic game, but balance is kind of their forte, even if it's manifested by making weapons have odd properties. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::You know what, It would be really funny if IW made the 20-round magazine hold 30 rounds anyway, lol. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:48, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:PS - There is a picture of the MP5 with an ACOG from CoD4 in the leaked pictures from Kotaku, assuming this won't be in game. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:45, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's because they're comparing the MW3 MP5 with the MW1 and 2 MP5s. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 05:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::That's also why I put that PS there, it's a toss up between a comparison and including them as variants. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:21, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Cover Art ==
What is that the dude is holding on the cover art? It first glance I thought it was a TAR21 or something similar, but now I'm thinking its an M4 of some sort, but with an AFG Magpul grip attached instead. Could someone clear this up for me? --[[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 14:09 25 May 2011 (GMT+0)

: Yeah, it's just an AR variant with an AFG on it. It seems that IW has received a lot of sponsorship from Remington and Magpul, so it's possible that the AFG may be included as an attachment, though that's very doubtful. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:37, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: Ahh, its nice to choose having a grip, but choosing the actual grip model is a luxury we will probably never have in CoD. Ironicy, it is one of the thigns I want MW3 to deliver, weapon customization like in Army of Two 40th Day. That was/is a BEASTLY game for weapon customization. Like PMG on console. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 12:26, 26 May 2011 (GMT+0)

:: I think COD's decent enough in terms of weapon customization, one step they could take is allowing Bling Pro to give you three attachments (Not including M203/Masterkey in my opinion) and add a few more attachments that were in Black Ops and ones that aid in recoil/accuracy that aren't sights. Or, the more preferable solution in my eyes, is to separate attachments from perks altogether. In other words, get rid of Bling and just give people the ability to customize their weapons. There's no invisible wall preventing one from putting attachments on a weapon in real life. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:08, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Yeah, it worked for Brink afterall. just make it so having a grenade launcher stops you using throw lethal grenades, or stops you from having a first perk, simple as. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:12, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

== MP5SD2 ==

I think there was '''NO''' MP5SD in the reveal trailer. The COD wikia has it wrong. [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_3] It is a normal A2 with a suppressor, unless the SD2 has rails around the built-in suppressor. Well, this game is pure sci-fi so, I don't know.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:29, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Without agreeing or disagreeing (I'm indifferent toward this game at the moment), I don't see anything that would prevent IW from sticking rails on an MP5SD if they wanted. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:37, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Err... Guys? ==

Just remember that there's still no guarantee this is even getting released, depending on which way the pending lawsuit goes. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

*I imagine it'd come out regardless, just without the Modern Warfare brand if Activision loses. You know, like it was going to be with FEAR 2 being just "Project Origin" before Monolith bought the franchise from Activision. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::But if Activision loses, and can't use the MW brand, doesn't that also include, and mean they can't use the characters either? Like Price and MacTavish? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:48, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::I don't think so, even when it was "Project Origin" FEAR 2 was going to have Alma in it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:52, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::: If it is being pushed through to November, it's going to be released. Activision wouldn't risk losing their baby of a franchise to go out like that, they aren't dumb. COD games come out every Holiday season like the sun rises and sets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Flip-Up Sights ==

The german magazine GameStar did a preview on the game, apparently IW and Sledgehammer showed two levels of the game in London. And they write something about "flipping up sights" as a new feature. It isnt explained what this means exactly, nor is there any picture/video material of it, but it could be a hint about it. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:They're probably talking about that magnifier; I guess that means you really can control if it's used or not (D-pad function, perhaps). Games magazines can usually be relied on to get every piece of firearm terminology they try to use wrong since they learned gun terminology from video games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:24, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::They actually use the german term for Flip-Up sights, so i dont know. I posted the question in the comment sections, maybe i'll get an answer. But even if it's the magnifier, still an improvement. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:42, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::The minute I posted this, I got a response. You are right, she means the magnifier. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Either way, seems to be an improvement. Thanks for the info! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:23, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Samopal Vzor 58 ==
In Prague level (Czech Republic), Russian soldier can be seen holding an AK type gun that seems like Samopal Vzor 58. Off course its most probably just wrongly lighted AK-47, but it may sense that he captured it from Czech Army as it takes place in Czech Republic.

[[File:Samopal Vzor 58 MW3 probably.JPG|thumb|left|200px|Well, it would have been really awesome if IW included this rare weapon.]]

[[Image:800px-Sa 58-JH01.jpg|thumb|left|400px|'''Czech Sa. vz. 58P''' ''(Pěchotní aka "Infantry")'' with fixed stock - 7.62x39mm]]

Just look on it - It seems to lack AK ejecting port, it may lack top-mount RIS rifle and gas block looks shorter. Also, body looks almost tiny compared to 7.62 magazine.

:: There's already an AK variant/format weapon that's not of Czech design, IW wouldn't put another in just for kicks. What you're likely seeing is a lack of modeling, or lighting as you indicated, for example the M4 in MW2 didn't have an ejection port simply because it's a mirror image in terms of a weapon model, laziness on IW's part. As for the magazine, the mags have always been a bit oversized on MW AK's, but they're not ridiculous. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:31, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== New Weapons Confirmed ==

From reading several previews posted 5/26/2011, multiple games press have confirmed a few weapons. Modern Warfare 24/7 has a list of these previews here (http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/first-mw3-previews-screens) while the one that details the weapons by name are found here (http://aggregame.com/news/2011/05/26/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-preview/). Weapons confirmed in closed doors preview include: AK-47, P90, M4A1, Spas-12, AT-4, and XM-25. The XM-25 has been called the "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" or "a nod to the crossbow" in other previews. Also confirms the usage of a "hybrid" sight mixing acog and red dot and its use. Lastly, theres a "9-bang" which is a "cluster bomb" of flashbangs and/pr stun grenades that you throw (I don't know if that one is a real life thing but someone who's more versed in gun/warfare knowledge confirm please). Please update main imfdb page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

: Modernwarfare 247 is notorious for labeling firearms inaccurately, they did so with MW2 on several weapons before correcting it after the game came out. There's nothing in the Modernwarfare 247 article that says XM-25, but either way, it's not a sniper rifle by any means. Would be a cool inclusion if it's in. Dunno what the 9 bang thing is, stun grenades and flashbangs are increasingly irritating, I don't think they need to be made better by any means. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

You are correct that the Modernwarfare 247 article doesn't name the xm-25, I merely mentioned that it had a list a previews and that some of the previews do. The one paticulalrly from aggregame.com, which I linked, mentions weapons by name. Many articles of the gaming press, who clearly don't know guns like the people on here, claim a "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" on the New York level. Aggregame.com's article says this in the 3rd paragraph quote, "We see a new type of weapon used in this level called the XM25. This weapon uses a laser rangefinder to determine the distance to the target and once fired, detonated at the proper distance to produce an airburst effect. Anyone hiding will be properly taken out." Now, judging from the grammar used (though this is only a hypothetical analysis) he mentioned it being "called" an XM-25. Meaning that the game files at this stage of development identify it as such, not that he used it and was like "oh I know what this is". Judging from the description of many gaming press articles (again linked by modernwarfare24/7) it 'seems' to be the real thing. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

:Arg, I was just in the middle of adding that :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:55, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Ahhh fair enough, gotcha'. Hm, well I hope they actually make it semi-automatic and with a small overall ammunition capacity. IW seems to shower in explosions and knifing, when they're making a -shooter-. I dunno' why they don't focus on making their conventional firearms better. Either way, nice snag on the info. Though, I will still caution you on MW247, I encountered them in my MW2 forum days and they weren't reliable at all. The 9 bang thing is troubling, what the hell was wrong with the Stun/Flash grenandes? Stun Grenades are -way- overpowered in my opinion, granted being stunned is an effect of a common flashbang, but being paralyzed -and- blinded, isn't. Regular flashbangs are enough, nothing else. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:59, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah, I wouldn't mid COD so much if they toned down the knifing, seriously, it's not sothing you should use because you couldn't think to do anything else, it should be a very last ditch defence, this goes for all shooters. What's strange is when I play COD4 (cause I still play 4 :) ), there's very little knifing if you watch the killfeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:My thoughts exactly, Commando is silly. They had it right in CoD4. One thing that really bothers me, is that even on Hardcore, when I'm face to face and lighting the person up... it's still possible for them to knife me and walk away. Getting shot should interrupt the knife ability, and it shouldn't work faster than bullets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:30, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Exactly, it's not that it's one hit kill, it's that it's so damn fast! Bad Company 2 got the knife right, you press the button, and it kills them about a whole second (that's a long time) later, it's mostly an assassination weapon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Just wanna throw out, the XM-25 is now also confirmed by IGN. Link here: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1171345p1.html. Someone can edit the main page appropriately as I'm not the most professional gun expert. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 22:23, 30 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

The "hybrid ACOG" could be one of Trijicon's ECOS models which have a small red dot sight mounted on top. And within a month, everybody will be whining about how "unfair" it is to have a scope and an RDS in one package... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Controversy ==

Well, it was inevitable, but the controversy's already gotten rolling.

[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110393-Daily-Mail-Voices-Concern-Over-Ultra-Violent-Modern-Warfare-3 Escapist: Daily Mail Voices Concern Over "Ultra-Violent" Modern Warfare 3]

[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Fortunately, most gamers care about good games regardless of content. personally, I could care less what the media says. Not a big issue, always going to be this somewhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:12, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: The controversy is exactly what they want, it's good promotion. Just like that whole "airport-level" in MW2 was. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 07:12, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::Yup, it's good marketing for them, people become more interested when all the soccer mums etc. cry out about something. Until we see games like GTA actually getting banned, we FPS players have nothing to worry about. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:54, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Killer, Alex, those are the most truthful words ever. They dont care about decency or people, they care about MONEY. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 17:58, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:I get upset every time I see footage of the Towers falling, but that doesn't mean I think such images should be censored. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown Ak Variant ==

I was think the gun listed as the Unknown Ak Variant might be a AK74. I thought this because it appears to have a longer flash hider, which the AK74 encorporates, although I wouldnt hold my breath. Thoughts?

: If you check out the flash-hider on the leaked Kotaku screens, you can see that it's emphatically not the AK-74 typical flash-hider. It's something I've never seen before, it's like just the last few centimeters of the AK-74 flashhider, married to the barrel. Magazine looks too curved to be the AK-74, so it's probably a 7.62x39 AK. AK Variant is good enough for me, CoD's AK's are always pretty non-specific. :) [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:52, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:: On first screen, that unknown AK variant looks like Vzor 58 rifle as it doesnt have AK´s ejection port/ bolt. On second screen, its just normal AK that is on one of those leaked shots. They arent same, as first gun is longer, thiner and lacks top mounted RIS rail.

: It looks different because it's in the dark and is low-res, whereas the leaked one is in the bright daylight and is a high-res closeup. It's the same weapon, there is no reason why IW would include both being so similar.It doesn't have the bolt/ejection port because IW is lazy and uses mirror images of weapons to render their models. Where the end of the receiver meets the stock adapter and the angled area of the receiver around the magwell are dead giveaways that it's not the Czor in addition to the spacing of the ribs on the receiver, which on the Czor are very close together. The magazines are always a little bigger, just CoD's style, and even then the magazine looks just fine to me. It's an AK variant, not the Czech make.

:As for the length, it's the same. What you might be confusing is where the gas tube meets the barrel as the end of the weapon, in the reveal trailer capture, the barrel ends near the man's thigh it's just hard to make out. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:01, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

Shouldn't the AK-74 in the main page be called "Unknown AK variant" or something like that? It's a bit hard currently to determine what is the correct variant, but by the leaked footage, this could be the same customized AK-47 like in Modern Warfare 2 only with different flash hider, handguard (which is also in black instead of tan) and black stock instead of tan. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:50, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: The railed foreguard is distinctly smaller. The stock isn't a VLTOR-type stock, but an LE one. Also, in the CoD Elite snippet trailer, one can see that the leaked Kotaku picture is legitimate. It matches the AK in that perfectly, this is a new AK weapon model for sure not just a painted one from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:25, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

== Call Of Duty: Elite ==
Kinda off topic, but this site's COD talk pages always end up becomeing half about discussing the game anyway, I was that trailer for Elite, and man, they expect us to pay for that? I mean, it's cool, but Bungie's been doing that with Halo forever, and it's free... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:02, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:The only color that matters to Activision, is green. I don't get it, your company produces the top-selling franchise of recent history, and you still want -more- money... get over yourselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 17:13, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:Meh. Don't like it, then don't pay for it. Vote with your dollars. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 06:41, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I agree, and I don't plan on paying for it. Bungie did heatmaps/statistics/awards/etc for free... Activision is marketing Elite as some sort of CoD Facebook with the occasional prize won. As long as those are the only perks, then I will not be paying for it. However, if they decide to transform it into some VIP membership giving members say, discounts on map packs, early access, or different weapon/abilities that are available no other way... then it's supremely disappointing and insulting to the people who spend an already outrageous $60 USD on the very game they produced. I understand that Activision is a business, and the goal is to make money... but this just seems like overt greed and a way to cash in. It's also detrimental, because for some odd reason, CoD seems to set the paradigm for all FPS's of late. So, other companies now feel pressured to emulate CoD in order to make money themselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:45, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I'ts been pretty much summed up already. DEFINITELY not buying this, and I'm still not even sure I want MW3. I saw somewhere that there are no dedicated servers, which was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing that could save it is...well...a miracle. I am probably just going to go with Battlefield 3.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:36, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not expecting much from MW3, but I will get it for the singleplayer, just to see what happens with Price and Soap. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

They buy it used. Kick Activision where it hurts.

Battlefield 3 looks great, really high hopes for that one. MW3 doesn't look bad necessarily, just the same stuff in a different package. Will get it and play it a ton, but, as far as a good game being made, Battlefield 3 is going to take the cake. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:03, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, well said, I don't think MW3 is gonna be BAD, just the same thing again. BF3 looks awesome though. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:49, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Not going to lie, I'm going to buy this to round out the MW series (hopefully it ends with #3), and I'll be buying BF3. I will not be paying a single cent for the Elite service though. There's no reason for it to exist as a pay service. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:55, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

DICE also just blogged about their FREE BattleLog thing, which is pretty much the same as Elite. But free, because DICE seem to be less concerned with making dough and more concerned with producing a decent game and making their customers happy. IW makes their customers happy, sure, but most of those customers value big 'splosions rather than deep and interesting gameplay. I love CoD, but Battlefield is long overdue and as a company, EA/DICE are good in my book. Really looking forward to the Multiplayer footage and information that'll be coming out of E3 in the next few days. Seems a bit odd though, nobody seems to be posting regularly on the BF3 Discussion thread... get to it! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

Ummm... is Call of Duty: Elite directly related to MW3? If not, shouldn't it have it's own page? Please correct me if I'm wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:04, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Elite is some kind of online service, not a separate game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:36, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== TDI Vector in Call of Duty Elite, MW-3 Snippet? ==

In the snippet of mw3 at the end of the Call of Duty Elite trailer, when the player is killed the stock of the TSI Vector from Mw2 appears on his back.
[[File:TDI Vector.jpg]]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 22:04, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: Yep! I noticed that too. It's prolly indeed, the TDI Vector. However, I did notice that stock somewhere else on a weapon it shouldn't be in MW3, I can't say where, I just feel like I saw it somewhere. Good spot! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:24, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Could that be the M93 Raffica from MW2? I've always thought the stocks look similar. Although why a pistol has a stock in the first place is beyond me. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:39, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:::To make it a more stable firing platform, especially for a pistol that fires in full-auto/tri-burst. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:33, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== E3 Footage ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfTBe_PJrQ
Some firearms could be seen here. AA-12 confirmed. --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 13:26, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

You can see the AK-74u, P-90, and Glock 18 as pickups at times 5:14, 5:22, and 6:46 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

AA-12 is used for breaching the bridge of the sub starting at 6:16 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:52, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

I am nowhere near impressed with what we've seen out of MW3 so far... Good spots. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

2nd E3 Trailer spots at trailer found here (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-call-of/714784?type=flv). AK-47 as pickup at 1:29. 0:09 Driver of Humvee screams "RPG!", Dshk mounted on enemy vehicle at 1:40, M2 on automated gun system on Stryker at 2:16, Mi-24 using Yak-B gattling gun at 2:53, 9-bang used at 4:27, RPG (with RPG-7 sound from MW2) fired towards allied npcs at 4:50, XM-25 usage starting at 5:20, AT-4 as pickup at 5:30, AK-47 Grenadier seen as pickup at 7:00 possibly a gp-25 or a gp-30, Spas-12 as pickup at 8:12, Thermite grenades at 8:40, Reaper Drone weapons used starting at 9:25, M134 Minigun sighted 10:32, and RPG-7's fired at player shortly after, M134 magically taking down Hinds for remainder of the video (Hind cockpit glass alone is 12.7mm resistant).
:Wow, four years were not enough for them to realize that there is no such sh*t as "AK-74u". - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:21, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Hehe. Even when I name my classes I always find myself putting the 's' in it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I've seen people refer to the S model as a "Ak47 pistol". I mean, seriously, a pistol? makes it worse the bloke who said it is a retired soldier who fought in Vietnam. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:41, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
Note how they say 12.7mm resistant. With a m134 you have 50 rounds a second heading for those Hinds. Now I've known people who are attack helicopter pilots and they do not want to get hit by a minigun as while such things as Titanium armored tubs will take the hit such things as armored cockpit glass cannot due to the number of bullets hitting the "glass" Sort of like how you can drop a quarter on a car window and it will bounce but if you drop a tin can full of quarters it will break the window.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:38, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The worst thing was that you got HIT by the crashing Hind, then HIT the building, fall out of the Blackhawk (almost), pull yourself BACK IN while it's spinning out, and GET BACK ON THE DAMN M134, then, oh we're fine, let's keep on flying... Oh, that and the HUGE BRICK OF C4 that you breach the Bridge with, and it doesn't hurt you... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:58, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::MW3=$60 MW2 DLC. Not impressed by anything I've seen so far, other than it taking place in NY; but Crysis 2, anyone? -Kangabox

Few more finds in the msnbc coverage of E3 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/43349883#43349883). Some gameplay of spec-ops shows (at 0:30) a man running around with a lever-action rifle/shotgun of some kind. It looks similar to the M1887 shotgun from the "leaked" photos a month back. At 0:53 the gamers are using what appears to be the Bushmaster ACR but I may be wrong because I'm not a gun expert. Someone please identify, thanks. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 20:50, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

:Did anybody notice that the MP-5 was called an MP-5k? and that the ACR was called ACR 6.8 --[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

More MW3 stuff. M1887 spotted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRx33M0V6I --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 01:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Actually, that may be a hint at caliber change options and the option to remove/attach stock.We'll see. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:03, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:^ This would be so awesome --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:58, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I doubt Activision would put something semi-realistic in CoD, but if caliber change was implemented I would buy it just for that reason.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:17, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::: Imagine what an 7.62X39 ACR would be like (it can be modified to use it). Just kill the bad guys and pick up their AK magazines. Awesome. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:38, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 18c ==

Should this not be put down as a Glock 17 seeing as it's likely it's the exact same gun from MW2? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]
:We should wait until we get a good shot of it before we make a decision, although it is likely the same.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, Jazz :) -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

== Unknown pistol from Late Night footage ==

[[Image:FN57MW3.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

Can anyone help identify this pistol? Looks like an FN Five seveN to me (sorry for bad quality) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:15, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yep, that's a Five-seveN alright, cool. EDIT, it holds 15 rounds. Wow, hardcore fail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:I had figured they'd do SOMETHING to balance it, either keep it at 20 rounds and give it low damage, or reduce mag size to keep it similar to other pistols --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:46, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Is there a link to this footage? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-61311/1333686/ Also confirms the inclusion of the Model 1887 in the game --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:36, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

FN five-seveN- YES! One handed grip- meh. Could get over it. Once (or if) they confirm the P99/P226, I will be more excited. At one point, the developer says something like "This gives an action movie feel. We tried to make it a cinematic experience." That is what CoD is- an action movie. If you want a military sim go to Battlefield.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:23, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:True that, I will always enjoy both games because they offer completely different experiences despite being the same genre. I'll be more interested in MW3 when they start announcing some MGs, but the Five-seveN is a pretty cool addition --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:53, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Gotta agree with both of you, there, I'm psyched for an FN five-seveN in a game like CoD. -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 00:43, 15 June 2011
::"Wow, hardcore fail." Alex, what the f#ck did you expect from a call of duty game. +1 round in the chamber? Some things will never change. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:53, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Haha, I was never hopeful enough for +1, but until not they'd gotten almost all the mag capacities right, especially since the 20 round mag is one of the most notable features of the Five-seveN :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::::If it did have 20 rounds, people would complain that it was overpowered. All in the name of balance! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:51, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Not if it was very weak, no one complained about the 20 round Five-seveN in the Counter Strike games. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:16, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::There is that I suppose. It'd probably never be used in favour of something a little more powerful with fewer rounds though. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:22, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

:And of course it's probably still going to have 15 rounds in single even though multiplayer balance is totally irrelevant there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
::Good point, didn't consider that. Screw Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:12, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

I am starting to realise that if ammo sharing between primaries and secondaries comes back from Cod4, most SMGs will have an advantage, as of now there are many possible combos (P90/Five-seveN, MP5 & FMG-9/P226 & Glock 18 and possibly UMP45/USP45 or M1911). This would make Scavenger (if it returns) unecessary and would open up a perk slot. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 19:38, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:That would be awesome! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:04, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 back in MW3 ==

Does anyone think the M1911 will be back in Modern Warfare, and I found a 1911 looking gun when soldier blind-firing with a UMP45 in the reveal trailer [[File:UMP45-MW3]]

:I know the shot you're talking about, it could be a 1911, I HOPE it's a 1911, but it could also be the P226 with wierd lighting on it, if there really is a P226. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:46, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope both are included, the selection of secondaries in Black Ops was paltry, more pistol choices plz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:54, 16 June 2011 (CDT)
: yeah more pistol choices because in black ops I only used the m1911 and the python.

:I only use the ASP, I know it was highly outclassed by all the others but it was obscure enough to make it a favourite.--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:41, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:I like all the pistols in Black Ops (except the Makarov, I've never liked it), but the problem was they were almost all the same, low capacity, low damage, like the WaW pistols. While we're talking about pistols, has anyone else noticed that the sildes of the COD4 pistols actually locked back when empty, and the WaW ones had working hammers? Then starting with MW2, it just became part of the animation, so it would fully cycle, then appear back when you started reloading. Black Ops continued this too. The only pistol in MW2 that locked empty was the 1911 because they just copy-pasted the whole thing from 4, and the only one to lock empty in BO is... the 1911. Apparently they just reskined the WaW 1911 in BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:06, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Can't say I'm surprised, I suppose the majority of players don't notice small inconsistencies in weapon function animations. I guess they could get away with copy pasting the M1911 from CoD4 into MW2 as it was only featured in campaign, which in itself was pretty lame as it was the only sidearm I used in CoD4 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah Ive heard about it and sceen it do you think they fix the bug --[[User:GVK2009|GVK2009]] 22:01, 16 June 2011 (CDT)GVK2009

: I wouldn't be surprised, it's kinda become a tradition to have it in the series. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:36, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::They better, if only so Price can have it like in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

If the 1911 is coming back it won't be in the multiplayer which saddens me since I destroyed people with it in CoD 4. The BO 1911 was weak as hell and not having one in MW2, besides museum mode, was a bit disappointing. Now that MW3 isn't going to feature one I'm kind of giving up on it in future titles. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 14:35, 19 September 2011 (CDT)
:How do you know it's not in multiplayer? Bear in mind the XP build didn't feature several weapons we know will be in the finished version. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:42, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

::I'm going to have to leave for class in a minute so I can't post it now but there is a youtube video that shows a list of available side-arms for multiplayer and the 1911 wasn't on it. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 16:31, 19 September 2011 (CDT)
::: I refer you to my earlier statement. If it was from the XP build then the list isn't necessarily complete. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:16, 19 September 2011 (CDT)
:::: How can you know that? --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 00:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
::::: I'm inferring from the lack of the FAMAS and the Vector, both confirmed in earlier sources. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 01:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
I think Price has said good-bye to the M1911 and hello to the Desert Eagle. Watch the Redemption single-player trailer.
:Nope, check his shoulder holster, he still has it :D Most noticable at 0:43 when he slams the guy into the wall and stabs him. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:45, 9 October 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons Wishlist ==

Any particular guns that people are hoping to see in MW3? All I need in order to be happy is the M240. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
:Hmm, I'm having for some drum mags and Frag-12 rounds for the AA-12. Also, a Blaser R93 LRS2 wouldn't go amiss. Probably not a military weapon, but neither is the WA2000 or the Winchester 1887. *Cough* MW2 *Cough* Also hope they bring back the M93R but fix the magazines to give it 30 rounds. And hopefully they throw in the PSG-1, like in BO, but make it look decent (Not sure about you guys, but to me the gun looked disgusting in BO). That's pretty much my wishlist, I guess. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:08, 17 June 2011
::Argle bargle there is no such thing as an M93R Beretta does not use M for model prefix etc etc [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thanks for the correction, Tim. I'm not amazing with guns, but I hope to improve. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:24, 17 June 2011
::Muh the AA-12, sure it looks cool but it can never, ever be balanced for inclusion in a video game. Also I think the PSG-1 in Black Ops was hot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
All I need to be happy is a HUGE selection of pistols, not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs, AA12, etc, and (gonna get a lot of heat for this) NO QUICKSCOPING. IMHO snipers should be used as snipers, and running around close-quarters with a sniper is simply a one shot one kill semi auto rifle. Pistols I would love to see in the game even though half of them have a guaranteed 0% chance- Walther P99, SIG-Sauer P226/P228/P229, HK P30 or HK45, Beretta Cougar or more realistically the Px4 Storm, S&W M&P, Para Ordnance P14 45 Limited (this would be the best pistol in the game, as I would leave out the Desert Eagle), and to round it all out a good ole Smith & Wesson Model 686 with Pachmayr Grips. I am also glad that the FN Five-seveN is in it, I just wish they gave it a proper two-handed grip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:09, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::About the PSG-1, ALL the weapons looked terrible in Black Ops. JazzBlackBelt, I'd be worried if you took heat for not wanting quickscoping on this website, that would seriously worry me :/ And, yeah, pretty much what you said. As for balancing an AA-12, no, it can't be done, everyone go watch FPSRussia's AA-12 video, especially when he one-hands it; you can't balance that. They just made the pellets disappear after (literally!) 10 feet in MW2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:04, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::'not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs' Haha, as a regular LMG user this makes me sad :( I don't think LMGs are 'noob guns' if employed properly, they are fairly essential in defensive roles if playing gametypes like domination in which points NEED to be effectively locked down. However, I will concede that the majority of players who DO choose LMGs do so in order to hold the trigger down and hope 2-3 of their 100 round belts hit, which is just not on. As for quickscoping, I can't stand it. I feel it's cheap and 95% down to aim assist (though obviously not on PC). --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:29, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::I'm so ''sick'' of the term N00B, ugh. I'm not going to give my "wish list" cause IW is gonna do what "they" want and not listen to "us", I stopped playing COD games at WM2. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::75% of the LMG users use them improperly, like running around not really aiming. I still get annoyed when they kill me (I get annoyed at pretty much everything when it kills me) but if they were actually using it properly it makes me feel a little bit better. As I play on PC there are still annoying players that play outrageously, but on PC virtually nobody uses the mic (on CoD anyway) so I don't have to listen to them talk!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:25, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::I'm the same, though I think getting annoyed is part of the fun. It must be, otherwise we wouldn't keep playing. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::Nah, getting annoyed is never part of the fun, the game is good enough that we can clinch our teeth from the few annoying things and still enjoy the game. ;) (At least in MW1 for me anyway.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::I've never been that keen on CoD4, definitely not on PC anyway. The maps are far too small for the amount of players each server has :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:33, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Love COD4 on the PC, I love the 24 to 50 players on those "small" maps, 50 players makes it a true war! I prefer playing on Hard Core mode, just love it, no HUD, 1 or 2 bullets to kill someone, that's the way all the COD games '''should''' be by default. :) Never played WM2 or BO, they're too silly and Hollywood. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:22, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::::COD4 is by far the best CoD in my opinion. I play on PC, but I hate when there are too many players on a map. I aim for servers with about 4-15 players. Likewise, I love the big maps on BC2, but only when there are enough players.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:53, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Aside from seconding the inclusion of a bigger variety of combat pistols (note that by "combat pistols", I don't mean Desert Eagles, S&W 500s, and the like), the only weapon I'd like to see is a Mark 12 SPR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:48, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be for more Shotguns and to have them placed not ONLY as secondaries, but Primaries too. For example, I'd love to have the semi-auto M1014 or the 1887 as a primary but have a smaller sawn off shotgun or a compact pump action as a secondary, like a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser. MW2 with it's secondary shotguns was a bit of disappointment with me. I'd love to see more real life mainstream shotguns instead of the damn SPAS-12, it's overused for god sake, just start adding the 870 or the Mossberg, I wouldn't even mind if it had all the "Tacticool" crap on, as long as it was either the Mossberg or 870 underneath it all. But overall, more pistols in general, maybe a sniper rifle with only a single shot fire capability, a G3 Rifle from COD4 and maybe some really old weapons, like a Bolt Action Mosin Nagant or a Lee Enfield Rifle. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:36, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:How about NO shotguns as secondaries? IMO primaries should be the rifle/shotgun and secondaries should be pistols. Two shotguns? A little bit overkill and unfair.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:58, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I don't know, there is something crazy fun about running around with a M4 and the semi-atuo M1014. Unrealistic, and ridiculous? Maybe, but can't deny that its fun. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:02, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be that we could choose our equipment before the missions. There are some, I suppose where that would be unrealistic such as the 'No Russian' from MW2, but I think it would give everyone a bit more personal or in depth experience if they could choose their kit. I love the idea that we could get the flip up magnifier for an EOTech sight, but in general I prefer how much less of the screen is taken up by the red dot sight from MW1+2. I don't know enough about programming to understand if this would be impossible, but right now I have a bit of a crush on the Bushmaster ACR and would love to play levels with that, and in a few months when I'm having another of my HK 41X kicks play the game again with that rifle. Living in the UK my PC is the closest I will get to these guns, and I think everyone would have more fun if they could personalise their kit rather than have it chosen arbitrarily by IW/Activision who, I doubt, could not come up with one reason, good or bad, for giving you the equipment that they do. One specific request Sig Sauer p226 in .357 sig, they won't do it but you have to have dreams. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:00, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

A Weapon Loadout wouldn't be too hard. Medal of Honor: Airborne did the same thing. Maybe, completing missions, unlocking achievements/trophies (and a separate means on PC and Wii), unlocks new weapons to choose. - [[User:1morey]] June 20, 2011 8:50 PM (EST)

Two main things I'm hoping for: First, I want my F2000 back, but I want IW to get the unique optics right -- the EGLM sight on the real F2000 is magnified, so in-game, it should be the ACOG scope that looks like the EGLM, not the Red Dot. Second, I want a Springfield Armory XD or XD(m) pistol, preferably in .45 caliber; hell, I'd settle for the Croatian HS2000 that the XD is based on. I have a few other wishes (XM500 instead of M82/M107), but those two are the only ones that really have any chance of coming true. - [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:13, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

When will CoD learn? i love CoD but its seriously going down hill from CoD4. they had nice, popular NORMAL weapons in CoD4. M4A1, AK, M16, 1911, M9. now their bringing in stuff that knowone has ever heard of. is it too much to ask for a normal Glock? maybe a 17 or 21 in place of the USP. maybe use some pistols actually being used by actual SF Operators like the Glock, Sig, 1911, Springfield XD. and what is up with the Russians carrying FAMAS's. just looking for a call of duty that had the same quality and standards as COD4.. anyone with me on this? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:59, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:What? The USP is WAY more "normal" that the XD [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

i'd give it a few years, its been tried to replace the M9 (as did the hK45), its employed by a few police forces, im sure its being used by SF. and PS im pretty sure that most people would hand in the USP for the newer more ergonomic hK45, or the P30(same thing but in 9x19/.40S&W) [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 21:07, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:But... The HK45 only holds 10+1 rounds where as the USP45 holds 12+1. :B By decreasing the grip size for smaller hands and better ergonomics it lost 2 rounds. :( If someone made flush-fitting 12 round mags for the HK45, I'd buy it in a heart beat. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:25, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:I would take the fully ambi version of the USP45 over any other handgun. Period. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:05, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74u ==

Shouldn't the section for the aks74u on the page be titled "AKS-74u" and not AK-74u with quotations? IMO it's the same as calling a Glock 17 converted to full auto a fake Glock 18. I don't believe in the "call it what the game calls it" method because that is incorrect. I think we should definitely mention that the game incorrectly names it in the description, but the title should be the actual gun it is modeled after.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:47, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:It uses that title because the weapon is actually a replica of the JG "AK Beta-F" Airsoft gun, not an AKS-74u; it's a mess of different AK variant bits and pieces (mostly AK-47) that's shaped a bit like an AKS-74u but certainly isn't one. Hence it's a quote-unquote AK-74u. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:23, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just as Evil Tim said, it's only similar to the 74u in name, it's a bunch of different AKs, and it's not even a 74, it's a 47 anyway. Someone could copy-paste the description from the COD4 page. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:43, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

::Then shouldn't it be titled the model of the airsoft gun? All other pages I have seen that use airsoft guns as stand ins for real guns have the gun(s) it is modeled after and in parenthesis the airsoft gun. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up as I'm not much of an AK expert.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:25, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::It's not exactly the same as the Airsoft gun either, though. On a movie page where the gun in question was being used to play a real one, yes, you'd use the name, but here it's a fictional gun ''based'' on an Airsoft gun, so you just have to go with what they call it in quotes. That's how it's normally done for Frankenguns and fictional custom weapons in games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:Well, technically the only difference is the bakelite mags, but "AK-74u" looks WAY better than "AK Beta-F". [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:19, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::There's some minor differences in the layout of the gas block and front grip (check the CoD4 page images) and I'd agree it looks better to call it by the game name in quotes; it also makes it easier for someone looking for an ID of the weapon to actually find it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::The gas block and grip just look like fail modelling, but they are different ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:20, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

Thanks for all the replies, really cleared that up for me. As I said before, I am NOT in any way an AK expert. I had read that the one in COD4 it was modeled after an airsoft gun, and assumed the airsoft gun was modeled after the actual gun, not random bits. To avoid making other people confused I will update the description with a modified version of the COD4 one.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah I know what you mean by not an AK expert, it took me forever to be able to tell what one was just by looking at it for a sec, and there's still a lot that I come across I hadn't heard of. Same with revolvers, even now, they still all look the same to me lol. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:29, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Other than a few Smith & Wessons, don't ask me ANYTHING about revolvers. But hey, that's what this site is for- educating people about firearms.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:56, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:Lol, well said :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:58, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

It is correct that this gun is not an aks 74u and that the term ak 74u "doesn't exist." However, I don't know where the author of the main page got the information that this gun "doesn't exist." It's called an SBR (short barreled rifle) you can look it up if you don't believe me, just type in: short barrel rifle ak. Also, I know for a fact that you can fit an aks 74u type muzzle brake on the rifle. Most, if not all ak type muzzle brakes are compatible with each other. Just sayin'. --[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 16:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I googled, and there's no weapon listed called an "AK-74u" on the first page. If you can find a fullauto AKM-pattern weapon that looks like the one in the game and is called the AK-74u ''by the manufacturer'', then feel free to add it to the page, but as far as anyone can tell it's an "AK Beta F" Airsoft gun. This would hardly be the first mistake CoD has made regarding weapons, CoD1 had eight and ten-man weapons with a one-man crew and MP44s at Stalingrad in 1942-43. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm sorry for the poor communication, the gun is call a "Short Barrel Rifle." Ak 74u is just a nickname of AKS 74u. Look up "Short Barrel Rifle ak" on google. You are correct in saying that the Ak 74u isn't a "real weapon."--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:43, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:SBR is a legal classification of weapons (shoulder-fired rifled guns with barrels 16 inches or shorter) which require a special tax stamp and registration, it's not a specific gun. It's been applied to handguns with shoulder stocks before. What you're finding with that google search is weapons which fit that legal definition. Bear in mind we ''don't'' use legal definitions here, because legally, for example, there's no such thing as a fully automatic shotgun (it's a "machine gun"). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:49, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Regardless of what you say it's classified as, the weapon exists regardless of technical terms. I was merely proving the weapon existed. Even if it is heavily modified.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:55, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Um, you're looking at dozens of different short-barrel AKM-pattern weapons with that search, the only thing they have in common is requiring an SBR stamp. It doesn't really change that ''this'' AK isn't a real gun, because it's an Airsoft gun based on piecemeal bits of the AK47 and AKS-74U. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:01, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, I don't want to debate the issue with you here, I am aware that you are correct about the SBR title and its classification. However, If you look at the weapon posted, you will realize that it is merely an AKM with a shortened barrel, the pictures I found proves that this customization exists. You're going by weapon title whereas I'm going by the weapon itself. A weapon like that could, in theory, exist. With full auto capability and everything. But do what you will, It doesn't bother me at all, However, I think you can agree that this fictional weapon is at least based off a real firearm.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:09, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

The only Aks 74u piece you're talking about is the muzzle brake.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:12, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and the sight, but dude, I don't want to be that guy, I just want to show that this gun could be real, after all, the gun in-game doesn't show any manufacturer or anything, it's just a customized AKM.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:15, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about the fact that the configuration could ''theoretically'' be made into a real gun, though. We know of an ''actual'' Airsoft gun which is mass-produced right now and easily available to be used as a reference, which is all but identical to what is shown in the game. This means it's based on a fake weapon. Whether you could make an actual weapon based on ''it'' doesn't really change that. We say the same of handheld miniguns in videogames which have the "chainsaw grip" from T2 but retain the half-circle attachment point for the ''Predator'' M60 grip: you could make a minigun with a useless half-circle attachment, but that doesn't change that the useless half-circle comes from the Airsoft version we have pictured on the M134 page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:23, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

By all means do whatever you want, you know more about this site than I do, and frankly, I like this site and don't want to get into an argument on it. Either way is fine by me. And I'll leave it as a agree to disagree kind of thing regarding its actual existence. There's not enough evidence to say it does or doesn't exist. So I apologize for my previous remark. I leave it at a possibilty.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:30, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Call of Duty XP 2011 ==

I doubt it, but was just wondering if anyone is going to this? I'm curious if they got all the right guns in the "Call of Duty Armory", which apparently has the guns from CoD in it. You also get the chance to play MW3 for the first time, and a little beforehand reporting never hurt anyone ;).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:00, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:If I lived in the States/had the money to afford a flight to LA I probably would have gone. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot from FourZeroTwo/PKP Pecheneg spotted? ==

[http://a.yfrog.com/img736/504/nceia.jpg]

Looks like the Juggernaut soldier is using a PKP Pecheneg (note the distinctive carry handle on the top of the barrel).
There are some other guns lying around, possible an M14 on the left? Looks like a .308 mag to me....

(also is there a way to post an image directly in a discussion?)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:16, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Anyone else notice the annoyingly obvious Remington and EOTech trademarks? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:03, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah I don't like the trades at all, though I doubt I will use the ACR all that much. Good job on the PKP spot Ghost, think you're on the money there. Have wanted the PKP for a while. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:50, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's not like guns have rollmarks in real life, right?-protoAuthor 21:10, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, I don't mind the trades. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:46, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Each to their own, but they are massive so it feels a little like (very obscure) product placement --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:51, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, I'll take overt sponsorship over price rises. You have to remember that games have gone from something that could be made by half a dozen people in six months to something that takes 150-2,000 (GTAIV) people years and costs millions of dollars, and in real terms games now cost less than they did in those days. For example, the original ''Turok'' adjusted for inflation cost over $100 when the N64 first came out. They've got to get more money from somewhere, and you should be glad that somewhere isn't you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::I think it's brilliant. The MW series has made ACOG and EOTech house-hold names to an entire generation of potential customers. How many twelve year olds knew what an ACOG was pre-MW? Or what a Remington ACR was, or FN SCAR? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:00, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::But can they tell the difference between a Remington ACR and a Magpul Masada? But seriously, I don't mind the trades that much. Sure, they are gigantic and wrongly placed, but will you honestly be focused on that while playing?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:14, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::I suppose not, no. You might struggle to play the game if constantly focusing on your gun's trades. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:17, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Yeah, you guys are right, the product placement isn't too bad, it's just the oversized obviousness that bothers me. Oh, and I'm not familiar with the new EOTech in this game, but isn't the EOTech trade where the buttons should be? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Not necessarily, I believe the model depicted there is the EXPS2, which has the buttons on the left-hand side (http://www.copquest.com/75-8030.jpg) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:18, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Oh okay, it doesn't bother me nearly as much now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:13, 14 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::If you guys have 3 minutes to spare, here's a youtube vid of the EXPS2, which indeed does have the EOTech trade on the back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpw0IigxQM Plus, at the 1:00 minute mark he brings out a magnifier that has the same flip to side capability as we saw in some video for MW3, I don't remember which.
::Yeah, it is a PKP Pecheneg, Confirmed. - [[User:ReikoKotobuki|ReikoKotobuki]]

== ??????? ==
Why haven't all the guns from the Walther P99 to the Heckler & Koch M320 (above) been applied to the main page? Every image containing the guns have been confirmed as official by Robert Bowling.
:They were on Kotaku, which is not a reliable source, and last I heard they said "some of the information released is accurate, some not". If they have been confirmed elsewhere, please post a link.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:54, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

This isn't rocket science. Those pictures were leaked before the gameplay videos were. Look at the M-4 from the video, then from the Kotaku Link. They're the exact same, and the MP5 as well. They're legit, I'm convinced.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 17:04, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:This website operates based on CONFIRMED information. However likely it may be that they are legit (I'm convinced too) we have to wait for them to be in an official gameplay video.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yes, plus, as the template at the top of the age says, all images must be from ''official trailers''. The pics here are still from a leak, even if some of them have been confirmed. I'd say the only time we should use leaked pics is ''after'' the release if they include weapons that never made the final cut (eg the minigun in the leaked STALKER alpha), but never before. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:18, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, fair enough. Sounds good to me.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:24, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Survival Mode Trailer ==

Look HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDQ2Ow-VfI&feature=player_embedded. New weapon spots include...(please identify) at 0:11, (please identify...maybe Scar-H) at 0:14, buy screen confirms USAS-12 and M60E4 at 0:40, G36 at 0:42, ?auto-grenade launcher? (mk.19???) at 0:48, new telescopic lens attachment at 1:25, riot shield at 1:38, FMG-9 and bounding landmine (unknown type) at 2:04. Please update main page accordingly =D --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:24, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

You beat me to it, was just in the middle of writing a post about this! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:30, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Forgot to mention, at 0:42, ACR using 6.8mm ammo --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also 0:52, it IS a mk.19 automatic grenade launcher!!!! --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:34, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think the weapon at 0:11 might be another AR platform weapon, they show more of it at 0:15. I'm thinking LWRC's M6A4 but they're not an exact match. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:: It's the same M4 seen in the leaks and the E3 footage.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Nah that's shown at 0:17, is definitely a different gun. Much longer than the M4, also the rail system, charging handle and rear sight differ. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:25, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Dammit, I was hoping they wouldn't bring back that juggernaut soldier. Also, seeing what they did to that poor 1887 made me cry. One good thing though, deploying a riot shield squad could be interesting.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:56, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, weren't riot shields also available in MW2? I remember seeing them in MW2 videos. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:37, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::Indeed they were introduced in MW2, but only the AI could use a sidearm in tandem with the shield. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:15, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Aww. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also, here's the list of weapons up for purchase during the trailer: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110809195831/callofduty/images/8/8f/USAS_12_Survival_Mode.png Clicky!] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:02, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The landmine device at the end of the video is an IMS landmine. Information here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk. I don't know if we post about that kind of thing, but claymores are listed on the main website. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:36, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

== Colt CM901 ==
[[Image:UK1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UK2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Anyone know what this is? I think it's LWRC's M6A4 but I'm not certain, definitely isn't either of the other AR platform weapon's we've seen so far though

Well, since Infinity Ward loves to put Future Weapons stuff in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the LWRC M6A4 made an appearance as a mag-fed LMG, Black Ops-style. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:28, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ That's what I was thinking, the reload animation looks quite slow for an assault rifle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yet, once again, they have put the rear iron sight backwards :P --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:57, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::Good job whoever identified this as a Colt CM901! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:05, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, that iron sight isn't on backwards. That's the standard BIS for M4's in the Army. Every M4 in our Brigade has that flip up sight. The only thing wrong with it is that it's supposed to be a the standard peep hole, not the night sight that you see on the M16/M4 carrying handles. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 09:51, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::: For reference, I believe [http://www.aresarmor.com/install/media/ecom/prodlg/matechbuis.jpg this] either is or is a commercial copy of the sight he's on about. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:33, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::Yes sir that would be it [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 12:27, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP5K!! ==

Someone throw in the MP5K to confirmed weapons, it can be seen with a holographic in the vid, after the player tosses a purple smoke grenade for AC-130 fire at 1:08 in the newest trailer! :D Dunno WHY they add it in with the regular MP5, but it's confirmed in the bottom right hand corner. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:On it. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:38, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::The strange thing is that the difference is not even noticeable as the guy holds the MP5K close to his body and the buttstock (the buttplate on the MP5K) isn't visible. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:46, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I think it has a buttstock attached, as far as I can tell. I get the feeling this is the only MP5 variant in the game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::::What the about the MP5A2? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:00, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I thought they both looked very similar (buttstock, rails etc) so that's why I assumed they might both be one and the same, but if they're both confirmed as separate weapons then fair enough. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:07, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::They could have misnamed the MP5A2 an MP5K. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:12, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I also think this might be the only MP5 in the game, and if it is the MP5k OR it is a MP5A2 misnamed, I'm going to get angry. The MP5k is a nice gun, but I want to be able to use a full size MP5 again, like the good ole days. Ahh, how I miss COD4...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:17, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::True to that. Well I'm still playing COD4, huaha! >:D I just played Black Ops only for a little while, I completed SP, played Zombies and MP for a couple of hours until I quit due to the frustrating and the annoying, and went back to playing COD4. XD Oh, and I never even touched the abomination that is called MW2. D:< - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I played Black Ops for a while, enjoyed, then played COD4 again and realized how bad BO was. Recently I broke down and bought MW2 because Steam had it half off, and having extremely low expectations for it, I found it wasn't terrible, but just bad. I still play the MP, but I have no idea why.
We saw the teaser trailer and it is the full size MP5. I'd be damn if they kept the MP5K. Seriously man. In Black Ops they had the right idea of no mini Uzi and gave us a full Uzi, I want me full size MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:Hehe. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
::Seriously though, I don't know why they put the smaller variants of everything. MP5k, Mini-Uzi, and small guns in particular like the sawed off shotgun and stuff. Don't even get me started about the excess rails, which appears to have continued over into MW3. 0.o--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:37, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I quite like the MP5K, but for the most part I prefer the full size variants of the weapons they include. As for rails, everybody knows the more rails you have on your gun, the better your gaming experience will be. *Trollface* --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:20, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
::: Needs more Tacticool. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:31, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
:::^ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:58, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

== M60E4 could be M60E3 ==

After looking closely again at the trailer, I have noticed that the picture of the M60E4 is actually the M60E3 from [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Of course we haven't seen MW3's M60 in action yet, but once again, could be another mistake, or just an early development place holder... Here are the pictures for comparison:
* Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-18-50.jpg
* Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:COD4M60E4.jpg

What do you think? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:54, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think they images they're using atm are largely just placeholders until final ones are chosen, so the final in-game model may end up being the E4 variant. Guess we'll have to wait till footage from CoD XP comes out to see for ourselves. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:09, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:: The fact the MW2 ACR image is being used supports that. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:45, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== FAD assault rifle ==

Whereabouts in the spec-ops trailer is the FAD? Someone updated the main page but no pics. Here's a picture of the FAD for anyone who hasn't seen it, looks horrific [http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5347/fad3vv2.jpg] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:Just watched the trailer and am 99% there was no FAD in it. Also, the MP5K is actually a railed MP5A2, and can be seen from the side on the ground when the first juggernaut fast ropes in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:50, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::I thought so. :) And yeah the FAD is pretty horrific looking. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:29, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::OMG that gun looks bleh...i'd rather see the F2000 or TAR-21 again, those are some sexy bullpup rifles. But this time please with correct grenadelauncher placement.--[[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:29, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
: Chrausis, the FAD isn't in the trailer, but can be seen on Sledgehammer's site in image 2 as seen here [http://sledgehammergames.com/]. And Commando, you may be right, but Robert Bowling confirmed on Twitter both versions of the MP5 will be included. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 02:38, 13 August 2011
::Hmm... this could prove interesting... if they pull it off right there could be pros/cons to each version, i.e. MP5k lets you run a little faster but poorer accuracy and MP5A2 gives you better accuracy but a little slower. Of course, they could just be making the MP5k a secondary, which would make me pretty mad.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:10, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::It's kinda hard for MW3's MP5K to be a secondary with that A2 stock. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::::That was the MP5A2 we saw, just with rails.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:24, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::But the HUD said "MP5K Holographic". :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:15, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::1of 2 things is happening. 1) IW has REALLY screwed up this time and put an A2 stock on a MP5k or 2) the HUD is just a placeholder from MW2 and will be updated. I can't tell if the handguard is full length or not from that clip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:42, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I think there going with the Machine Pistol Secondaries again, perhaps the MP5K is in the Machine Pistol Slot now, makes sense, considering it's smaller profile and IW's reputation, given that they had placed similar weapons in the catergory such as the MP9 and PP-2000. Might have a smaller magazine capacity or trade in something else over the full size version like firepower or accuracy. I know that one theory of mine, is that the A2 version may function similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung 40mm Grenade Launcher. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:26, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::The GSN-19 is a '''30mm''' grenade launcher dude. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:16, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I was using that as the US equivalent, the only other '''30mm''' Grenade Launcher I see in use by US Forces would be the 37mm and that's usually designated to Police Riot situations and signal purposes, not exactly a great combat multiplier on a Sub-Machine gun. And did I mention the GSN-19 anywhere in that description or saying that it was '''30mm'''? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 01:23, 19 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::You said "Similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung '''40mm Grenade Launcher'''" <-(referring to the '''30mm''' GSN-19 that mounts to the AKS-74U). Just making a correction. Anyway I see a 40mm grenade launcher being mounted on a MP5 kinda silly, Half-Life anyone?
:::::::::::Well this is Infinity Ward we're talking about, and they have been known to make alot of things silly in past games, like mounting a M203 or a Shotgun on a TAR-21 without any proper mounting brackets or by having the 7,62 M240 LMG being LESS powerful than the 5,56 L86 LMG which is ungodly powerful. So I wouldn't exactly call it far fetched for them to add a Grenade Launcher to the MP5, it's technically feasible, Treyarch and Infinity ward do seem to have a habit of copying one another in some way. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:19, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Purchase Weapons like Black Ops? ==

Was just curious after watching the Survival Mode trailer, anyone else think that IW maybe following Treyarch's example and giving all their guns, equipment and killstreaks price tags in the Multiplayer Armory instead of unlocking them with experience and further ranks? I personally enjoy the idea, as in Black Op's it worked quite well, I could buy what I want and didn't need to work too much in order to get it. It was always in reach. What do you alot think about this? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:31, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:I would prefer the money system. as you noticed, the upgrades where always in reach and it wasnt necessairi to perform a gazillion kills simply to get that one feature unlocked, that i like. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:23, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

:Robert Bowling has confirmed that there'll be no in-game currency (other than in survival mode) but there will be a whole new system in which weapons are unlocked. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:52, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== One handed grip ==

I know its not supposed to be a sim, but a one handed grip on the pistols is going to get old quick [[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:24, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:I agree fully.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:31, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
::Be thankful it's just a one-handed grip and not a sideways 'gangsta' style grip. Though now I've said that... --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
::And they wouldn't even have the shell casings eject into the player's face.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:33, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
::Would make you flinch if you were playing in 3D. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:08, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Well in the real world you only one handed a pistol when your off-hand is not available, ie steadying on something, moving something, holding a flashlight, driving, disabled, etc. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:51, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
::::We all know how the CoD developers feel about the real world...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::lolz. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:17, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

On a lighter note, they are supposed to be bringing back a fully sized MP-5[[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:34, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:Old news pal. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

In Call of Duty if your off-hand is not available it's probably holding another gun. This doesn't seem to be the case so what are we doing, running around with our hand in our pocket? Actually that's less ridiculous than some of the stuff IW has done... [[User:USGIMar29|USGIMar29]]

== Infinity ward when will you ever learn ==

that russians don't use 9mm european smgs in frontline combat i throught Russians used heavy calber Russian weapons.--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

And I hate the EBR why do they have it in there!

know what I hate in COD games is that the player automatically thinks that they know every gun just by playing cOD.But I still like cod enough to play it--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:They don't really care about the minor details. They just want to create a fun game, rather than to do a research about a weapon and recreate it in the game itself. I myself, also getting annoyed of the unrealistically bull**** stuff that the developers put in CoD, especially CoD:BO where 90% of the weapons are anachronistic. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:14, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

We have WAAAAYYY passed the realistic mark with CoD. CoD is basically a playable action movie. If you want realistic, play Battlefield. Depending on how they present multiplayer, I play it because it is fun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, yeah, the CODs since 4 aren't so bad if you just think of them as action movies. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:01, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

did anyone actually pay attention of what i wrote?- nazi fishwife

:You basically went for the rather tiresome 'an unrealistic game scored better in reviews than a realistic game, so people must prefer unrealistic games' line. This is a fallacious argument unless you can prove ''Modern Warfare 2'' scored more highly ''because'' it was unrealistic and that it would have scored less if the weapon choice had at least attempted to make sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

how is it a fallacious argument, action packed less realistic games are statistically better than realistic, slow and boring games i had proof i added all of the scores modern warfare 2 and all of the scores with operation flashpoint 2: dragon rising on the page but it got deleted because it wasn't set out in the acceptible fashion - nazi fishwife

:No, ''one'' unrealistic game got better review scores than ''one'' realistic game. The comparison is flawed, since you assume that ''MW2'' is better because the weapons used are unrealistic choices for the people using them (something no review praised the game for) rather than because the game is better at a mechanical level, or simply appealed to more reviewers due to the more "pick up and play" style of gameplay. I could just as easily claim that since ''Portal 2'' has a higher Metacritic score than ''MW2'', first-person games with no guns in them are "statistically better" than ones with guns. Would you accept this as an arguement for MW3 not letting you shoot anything? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

thats funny, i didn't know that portal 2 was a realistic war game?

:Way to miss the point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:28, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

like when you started talkin about portal instead of a war game who's missing the point??

:Wow you just epically failed basic logic there ''and'' you didn't sign your posts... -.- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

i didnt know logic came into commenting on a website are you fucking stupid or do you just not get what logic is???

:Interesting, your attitude is just as bad as your logic and your name, you better watch yourself Nazi. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

:Popular =/= Good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:: I love the EBR and its still in service. It's not in alot of games/movies so why do you hate it? - Joey1666

You're asking when Infinity Ward will learn? They did, and a majority of them quite the company. What's left of IW is nothing compared to who they used to be [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:09, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I went kinda over board,What I ment about the EBR is not the gun I hate,Its the damage in-game what I hate.Other then that I love the EBR.An about the Russians I was just making a point like it making them look like a terroist army when they are not.Like they could be using a little more Russian weaponry.Right (makarovs men are the terroist if you didn't know),Anyways COD is still my favorite game series.--v 15:07, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[user:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]
----

== Confirmed guns still on Talk page ==

The following guns have been confirmed (either by official trailers or by live gameplay videos), and have already been added to the main page; therefore, they can be removed from the "unconfirmed" list on the Talk page (and IMHO, removing them will help prevent any confusion):
*FN Five-seveN
*Magpul FMG-9
*Colt M4A1
*Customized AK-47
*Remington ACR
*Heckler & Koch G36C
*Winchester Model 1887
*AA-12

== Hopefully this game turns out really good ==

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one folks. Cause to be quite honest, it's good that Infinity Ward got Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software to help in the development of the game, rather than just them doing it all on their own like how painfully obvious it was in Modern Warfare 2 (Not that the game was bad in any way, but it could have spent a little more time in development). After all, Raven Software is famous for it's development of the Jedi Knight games (instant classics right there), The X-Men Legends games, the Soldier of Fortune trilogy and a few Star Trek games here and there, so definitely the Multiplayer aspect of Modern Warfare 3 will be much improved over MW2's, and more fun to play. While Sledgehammer Games was founded by two guys who used to be a part of Visceral Games (a subsidiary of Electronic Arts), and that company was famous for development of 007: Agent Under Fire, 007: Everything or Nothing, 007: From Russia With Love (Pretty good first person shooters back in the day when games in that genre weren't copying the whole 'duck-and-cover-while-your-health-regenerates' system like they do now from the more modern CoD games... *cough* stole it from Halo *cough*), and of course both of The Godfather games and the Dead Space trilogy. So definitely the single-player campaign of Modern Warfare 3 will be much better and probably less glitchy and just ''maybe'', a little more 'realistic' like how Call of Duty 4 almost nailed down. Granted, this game and every other Call of Duty that comes afterwards will never be intended as 'realistic military simulators', and I understand and accept that, since Call of Duty is nothing more than a game you play for enjoyment rather than for the realism. But for what it's worth, I'm really hoping that this game turns out just as good as the first Modern Warfare did, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 06:33, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, couldn't have said it better :D I love how any time someone talks about COD, no matter the opinion, COD4 is ALWAYS mentioned as being good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

== M14 Derivative Spotted Possibly M21 EBR ==

Far right picture in second row of confirmed screenshots/concept art http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/183-more-concept-art-mw3 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:34, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I seen it too, over on the CoD Wikia. So psyched that it's back. Also, it appears Captain Price is back :( Oh well, can't have everything I want :( --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 23:03, 30 August 2011

::YAY! Captain Price!!!! I am soooo happy! Even though I suppose we already knew he'd be back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:41, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:::That art looks so awesome <3 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

If you need proof that some people on the CoD wiki are morons, I got called a troll for saying this doesn't mean the M14 is confirmed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:40, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, they also don't allow real life gun info on the weapon pages. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:52, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:: That was to stop it turning into a load of nerds swinging their virtual cocks around. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:07, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Eh, the result is ignoring misinformation about weapons spread by the games (eg that there's such a thing as an M93R). Not exactly an improvement. Especially when the original games had writeups that talked about the real guns in their manuals. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:03, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyswpn6xzQ Bam.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:50, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
: And it's already been taken down; I think it got put up too early. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:57, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Was this the multiplayer reveal trailer? I've heard it'll come out during the live stream of CoD XP at 11AM LA time. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:41, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
::: In the meantime, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaYrfe1S650 here's] where someone else stuck it up. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:::: I saw a hk usp on a guys back. -- Joey1666

:::::Why would a pistol be on a guys back?! XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:: It's been officially released now; Kotaku has an article with it. Some interesting new stuff in there. Bouncing Bettys, anyone? -[[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 07:46, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: Saw a Mk 46, USP Tactical, Remington MSR/XM2010, SVD. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

this trailer looks epic, when i seen the sniper 2: ghost warrior gameplay i knew they would have the msr on every new war game its in battlefield and this (waiting for homefront two lol)

:Why is the M4A1 still using 20-round magazines *facepalm*. Wanna bet that they will still hold 30 rounds? Using 20-round magazines on a modern assault carbine meant mainly for CQC = retarded. 15:24, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: All footage - http://gamingeverything.com/?p=8478 -- [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

== Equipment List (Not sure if it's leaked) ==

So, I was checking out Call of Duty Wiki for some MW3 news and I spotted this: http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/195-mw3-multiplayer-info-blowout
It's a complete list with all equipment options, not sure if it's considered leaked. But from what I saw up to now some new weapons are:
:1. Mk.46/M249
:2. G36C w/ AG36 (YES!)
:3. PP-90M1
:4. MP5 (NOT the MP5K)
:5. AS50
:6. Remington MSR
:7. Dragunov SVD.
:Plus, the G36C has a really badass reload (kind of MW2 FAL-style) [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 16:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

OHMYGOD OHMYGOD THE SIG P226 WASN'T LISTED UNDER THE PISTOLS SECTION NOOOOOOO ARGLEBARGLE AUUGHH BLARGBLARG *dies*--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:14, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:Is this information considered leaked or can it be added to the main page? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:30, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::I don't think "some random gaming site" really counts as "official" as per the page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:17, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== COD XP 2011 Robert Bowling Interview ==

Shows some pretty interesting snippets of other weapons seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJUJcoCq37I&feature=feedu
I see there is a L118A? / Arctic Warfare Sniper variant, HK USP, PP-90M1, SCAR-L (4:19, appears very briefly as a name tag), P99 Confirmed (name tag), M320 / AG36 (seen on G36C), CM901 (appears with a Tan Finish, Sniper Scope and Suppressor and firing fully automatic) [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

== weapon list ==

the list is supposed to be real and on the site it says the FAMAS was removed and the AK74U and AT4 are campaign only??

someone get proof please

: Well... that list isn't wrong, but there are more weapons than it states. Look at the Kotaku official screens, there's an M240B in one... which isn't listed. So I'd say that there's more than the list would lead you to believe.

:: No m1911 or Fal mentioned... Im dissapointed if that will be the final list. -- Joey1666

:::Yeah I was thinking that quite a few guns mentioned were missing, perhaps they're campaign-only like MW2's Dragunov. I hope not though, <3 the 240. Also the guy on that site claiming that the FAMAS was replaced by the QBZ-95 is a moron, they look nothing alike. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:45, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

I think we need to wait until it's a) confirmed and b) there are some pictures. Remember we're about identifying weapons in visual media, not in blog posts. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:02, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

[[image:MW3M2401.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M240 in MW3?]]

I'm not high right? This is the 240B in MW3 isn't it? --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:10, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:Hmmm, didn't know they made M240B MAG stocks out of leather... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

== Cheeky machine gun gameplay ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3i-vASNb68 Here] is a short video showing some Mk46 and MG36 gameplay. The MG36 is hilariously badly modeled, ultrasadface. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:59, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Until the guy reloaded it and I saw the side of the weapon, I honestly had no idea that the model was meant to be the MG36... Also, from the brief shot I saw of it (during the loadout section) the L86-LSW has made a return. Unfortunately (from my perspective anyway)it's the old MW2 model with drum mag, carry-handle/barrel change and L85 handguard. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

:That's not a real MG36, it is a G36KV "mocked up" as an MG36 > note that it has only four vent holes. Similar to the hybrid in Far Cry. And the gayass juggernaut has no weapon? OMG! Oh and one more thing, looks like there will be no emblem editor, just preset images and titles... hmmm... that's what I call regression. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

::I thought it looked too short to be an MG36, but that's probably the least concerning thing about it: The sights are wrong, the bipod is wrong, the drum magazine is wrong, not to mention the floppy charging handle during the reload sequence. Sort it out, Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:15, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:::EEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! I was so excited when I read there was an MG36, but... never mind :'( If the 240 is in but not on the list that gives hope to other things being in too, like the FAMAS, "AK-74U", and the M1911. I will be sooooo sad if they don't bring back the 1911 AGAIN. This game is looking, well, like another COD game, but seeing some of the COD4 stuff come back is making me a little hopeful. I also dislike Campaign only weapons, makes me feel cheated out of using them. :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:08, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

::::I don't GET campaign only guns. The models are already there, why not just stick them in multiplayer too? Just feels like wasted space. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:19, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Well, it means they don't have to be balanced for multiplayer use. Games where all the singleplayer weapons are designed to be fair to other players who don't exist are kinda depressing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::True, but the weapons that do feature in both single and multiplayer have different stats. For instance, in Black Ops the RPK had perfectly controllable recoil in single player, however kicked like a mule in multiplayer to make up for the extra 10 rounds in the magazine. They could even recycle the stats from the previous games the weapons have featured in as they were all considered fairly balanced. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:19, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

The MG36 from Battlefield 2 was also actually a G36KV. The sight rail with built in folding sights looks a lot like one made by [http://www.btdeutschland.com/BT-21142_web.jpg Brugger & Thomet].

Speaking of machine guns, I saw a picture of the PK Pecheneg in first person aiming down the sights, and the belt is on the wrong side. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 15:50, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== PP-90M1 ==

This is not the same PP-90 that the gun redirects the user towards. One is a folding submachine gun, the other is a helical-fed submachine gun. They are two entirely different weapons, at least, according to Wikipedia: "other than sharing a manufacturer is unrelated to the similarly named PP-90M."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-90M1] Also, if it hasn't been done already...looks like the PP-90M1 needs a page to itself. [[User:Arcdash|Arcdash]] 07:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)
:I fixed that already. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:08, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== WTF ==

In the new 'tango down' trailer, there is an m16a4 custom, that looks like a rocket launcher with parts of an m16a4 on it.
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DuUIy9snIk-E%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded (you need a YT account to view this)-teobery
:Are you talking about the thing at about 45 seconds? looks like a remote ground drone that has a rifle/machine gun in the centre of some sort with missiles firing from the right side. Apart from that the only other thing that looks like a rocket launcher is pretty obviously just a rocket launcher, SMAW I think. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:40, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

No, it's at 53. If you look at the bottom right hand corner you see it saying 'm16a4 custom'

Lol that's the M153 SMAW, the reason it says 'M16A4 custom' is that the player has expended their ammo and the game is auto-switching to their primary weapon. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:58, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

== More vids are out ==
More vids have been released from the XP event. Here's what I've seen.
* Brand-new reload animation for the G36C. I can't describe it that well, one of the MP vids for the "Kill Confirmed" game mode features it.
* USAS-12 uses the box mag and is restricted to 6 or 8 rounds a mags (couldn't see that well. MW still using pictogram ammo counters)
* There are 2 different MP5 pickup icons. One is a stockless MP5K with a 15-rd mag, while the other is a full-size and full-stock MP5 with the 30-rounder.
* MP9 has a slightly altered reload animation (character now give the seated mag a tap)
I'll try to grab as many of these vids as I can and get you guys caps if possible. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:39, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

:MP5K is likely placed as a Machine Pistol Option while the MP5 is featured as the Primary Option, if thats the case I can predict people running around with both MP5's. HK Fanboys incoming, not that there's anything wrong HK [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:17, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::The problem is if people can have machine pistols and SMGs as sidearms, why would anyone use pistols? I do, but almost no one else will. I saw a video where a guy pulled out his FMG9 and got a triple kill in half a mag in one burst. How is that a sidearm??? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:52, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::A lot of people will have ridiculous secondaries anyway thanks to Overkill :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:21, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::::The thing that gets me is why does this game have two full-auto shotguns when they're almost identical performance wise? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:15, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::That's wierd too, but I'll bet they don't shoot farther than 10 feet, so it won't matter that much :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:52, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Not to mention that on what information there is on the two auto-shotguns so far, they still only fire from 8 shot box mags...whats the point in having a full auto 12gauge if your mag is empty in two seconds and then you get killed while reloading...they better give em drum mags [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 06:45, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::If they get drum mags, I will not be playing this game. The tiny magazines are the only thing that balances them. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:50, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::: Alex, the answer to your first comment is that pistols have a much faster draw animation, so they are good for those times where someone's rushing and the gun's magazine runs out. Then, you instantly pull out your pistol and kill th enemy. So basically, they're faster and lighter than anything else, which I believe is their real life purpose. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:04, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Do we have to talk about this again? The developers don't give a s*** about realism. They prefer to create a game that focus on fun rather than simulation like ARMA\Operation Flashpoint-style games. They don't really care what family of weapons does the MP5K belongs to or how the AK-47 operates or what is the bullet-count of a SVD magazine. You and me and everybody else can turn over the whole world just for this kind of problems, but eventually it won't change a thing. The ''Call of Duty'' is a franchise that is intended to the casual players, featuring run-'n-gun/spray-'n-pray style of gameplay, dozen of weapons, crap like perks, killstreaks or whatever, ranking system, challenges, multiplayer service with social-networking in half-payment and the list goes on. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:33, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:I pretty much gave up expecting COD to be realistic since MW2. :/ And then I completely gave up all hope after Black Ops. ._. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:07, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

::Same here. It's amazing though, how reality can actually make the game better balanced. That's what the BF3's weapon designer is doing, little things like if you attach a suppressor you use subsonic ammo, it travels slower and drops sooner, making longer ranged shots difficult. This should probably be on the BF3 page, but oh well. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:16, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Exactly. And that is the deal: BF3 = Intened to have realistic gameplay. CoD = Keeps casual fun-style gameplay. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:37, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons ==

I noticed that the guns in this game that have appeared in the other modern warfares have been "modernized". The M4A1 Carbine is a stark example.
notice how as they progress, they are more "modernized".

[[Image:M4_4.png|thumb|none|400px|Modern warfare M4A1 Carbine.]]

[[Image:Mw2_m4a1_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Modern warfare 2 M4A1.]]

[[Image:CODMW3-M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Modern Warfare 3 M4A1.]]

:I'd say the MW3 M4A1 is less modern than the first two games, because IT USES A FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINE. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:54, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

::Not to mention the same ongoing mistake with the fire selector switch set on Semi-Auto while the weapon's actually fires on auto :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 18:56, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::At least his finger isn't on the trigger? That's something, right :D? Aside from a few inaccuracies, this M4A1 still looks far better than whatever they've done to that poor G36KV. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:21, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

::::The G36KV is bad, isn't it? Too bad, really too bad. Some cool weapons can be uncool when or if they get to the hands of the wrong people. If developers work with military experts or something like that, so I feel sorry for those guys as they don't look at the minor details. Eventually, the point is that even so MW3 has inaccuracies (as always in the case of CoD), the game gotta be at least better than the previous ones. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 19:38, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Sorry i had to use pictures from this website but i couldnt find any others.- [[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:I like the MW1 M4A1, almost stock but with a bit of personality. KAC rail system, 16" barrel, and an old-style stock. Also, the graphics get worse with each one :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:19, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::Actually the graphics get better but they also get more "tacicool", and a FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINE. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:09, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:::LOL. I wounder if the magazine will actually count 30 rounds even though it's a 20-round mag like in Call of Duty: Black Ops (I believe they got the idea from this game, :P) and why they decided to use 20-round in a Modern Warfare-era (duhh!)... OMG! war games can get pretty annoying sometimes. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:42, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::::It's not a war game, it's an action movie simulator! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:29, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Haha, "Action Movie Simulator" is what I'm going to call it from now on :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Maybe the guy who designed it has just watched [[24_-_Season_2#M4A1|24]], and if its good enough for Jack Bauer its good enough for you. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:07, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:Well Jack had no choice but to use FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINES, the game developers did. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:28, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::Better than 10 round magazines I suppose --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:01, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Even if it was a 10 round magazine IW would make it hold 20 rounds, because you suck and they hate you. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:24, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::::I wish you would stop reminding me of this :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:40, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

== Robotic-M249? ==

I was curious about the robotic-M249, and searched the internet for something similar and found out this:

[[File:SWORDS_robot.jpg|thumb|none|350px|]]
The robot is called "TALON" and it has the "SWORDS" system. This robot was produced by Foster-Miller robotic company.

Then I looked at the in-game:

[[File:M249_sentry.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Could be the same one? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 14:13, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

:I will use this at all times, so cool. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:14, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

::Hopefully this will be far less annoying than the RC Car in Black Ops, seriously who thought having a remote controlled bomb which is small and hard to hit be a useful killstreak for a game!? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:27, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Actually more like: Who the hell though that there were remote controlled cars in the '60s? :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 06:30, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

::::It's a 10 point streak and is lol slow from the looks of things, so seems pretty balanced to me. I bet it's really easy to take out. Doesn't stop it being awesome though >:O --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:32, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== KSG-12... Double Barrel??? ==

There's a something recently I've seen on a youtube video of MW3 loadout screen with the KSG is that the KSG operates like a Double barrel shotgun from previous games as it's described as "Double Barrel" on screen. Which has led me to some confusion, I know the weapon is actually a pump action but does this mean that some people are believing that because it uses a dual tube system that is infact some sort of weird pump action double barrel? It's led me to some concern regarding the weapon, but I wanted to hear people's view on what Infinity ward might have mocked this up as? Here is the video link btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAmxpx6bzk&feature=relmfu go to 0:34 to 0:35 to see what I mean [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:53, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:I've heard from someone who attended CoD XP that the KSG still operates as a pump action shotgun in MW3, so I don't know if it fires two shells at once? Either way, fail, Sledgehammer :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:23, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

::Hmm, there is no Vector, nor Skorpion. Also no M240B nor FAMAS? Wtf? The Skorp and MP5K (if there is at all) will be secondary probably. Also, THANK GOD no Akimbo for primary SMGs, so no gaylords running around with two P90's :) P.S.: DId you notice "MK14". Well better late than never, right? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:00, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
:::I had a feeling that IW was going to screw this shotgun up. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:02, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
::::It will fire laser portal bullets. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:02, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::And be powered by a secret alien micro plasma Arc-reactor from a pocket universe (shhhh, don't tell anybody, it will ruin the games plot) '''AND''' it will have a built-in sandvish spawner! . - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:20, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Don't forget the rail-mounted rail mounts with grenade launchers on each. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:52, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== FAMAS ==

I really think that the FAMAS on the pic is actually a G36C. The carry handle is too thin and low to be a FAMAS. Not to mention that there will be no FAMAS (at least in the MP). Anyways, I won't remove it from the page till release. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:18, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

:You very well may be right sir. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:06, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

I don't think so, carry handle is way too high to be for a G36C, it doesn't have a skeleton stock, and I think you would be able to see the magazine with the position it's in. Also, if it was a G36C there would be handguard in front of the carry handle. Could be that the Norinco QBZ-95 is actually a Norinco QBZ-95B. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:59, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

:Another possibility. I'd be more inclined to believe it was the QBZ-95B over the QBZ-95, as you say. Then again, it may still be the FAMAS as a placeholder or SP only weapon. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:12, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

:: The weapon in that screen is definitely, definitely a FAMAS. Down to the Troy-esque irons from MW2 being visible. It is probably just a placeholder, or they're holding out on us somehow. Still doesn't explain the M240B being spotted in the more recent screenshots released at Cod XP, but not the Multiplayer weapons menu. Either they've made the horrible mistake of making a bunch of weapons SP only for no reason, the weapon list shown at Cod XP wasn't the final build, or these weapons seen in previous CoD games will be available as Prestige Rewards/Veteran Rewards. They've stated that there will be rewards for people who have prestiged in previous MW games. Also, with the Prestige Shop... the sky's the limit. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:17, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

:::I am hoping that it isn't the final list, there are quite a few missing that I would very much like in there. Hope Sledgehammer don't pull a dick move and omit them. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:07, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

:::: *cough* Price's signature M1911 *cough* [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:44, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

::::: Agreed, I still die a little inside knowing that it was in the Museum in MW2, but not in Multiplayer. To be honest, I really see no reason for them to -not- include all the weapons from previous Modern Warfare games. If they just, carried over the weapon list from CoD4 and MW2 into MW3, that would be an amazing amount of variety in Multiplayer. I see no reason why they couldn't just do this. I'd love to use the G3 from CoD4 in MW3, and the FAL from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 23:13, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::As nice as this would be, there would most likely be not enough disc space (aside from PS3) and thus multiplayer would have to be included on another disc. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 02:30, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Well in Black Ops there were really only like two ARs and two SMGs because they pretty much all had the exact same stats, there's no way this could be MORE useless. I'm kinda glad the COD graphics (etc) don't get better, because I still play MW1 and don't feel like I'm missing anything :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:34, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

Thing that gets me is with the FAMAS, G18 (I didn't see it in MP footage, could be on the list), RPD, and the FAL these are the same weapon models from MW2 presumably. But, the AKS-74u and the M240B are unique weapon models for MW3. The last time we saw an AKS-74u-type weapon was in CoD4, there wasn't one at all in MW2 and from the leaked screen, it looks to be a completely new weapon model. So why would they make new weapon models, just to leave them out? The M240's is largely the same, except the way the irons somehow disappear or fold down when using a RDS, which didn't happen IIRC in MW2. Granted, the SVD was a different weapon model in MW2 and they didn't include it... but... just doesn't make sense to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

:The 240's irons do indeed disappear when an optic is attached in MW2, so I guess it's just lifted straight from MW2. Not that that's a bad thing imho --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:03, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

== HAAAA! I was right! ==

I was right when I said that there will be no MP5SD in the game (section #14 on this page). Check out the suppressed A2 [http://cdn.steampowered.com/v/gfx/apps/115300/ss_6d429f8fd41fb63a22c04069b6317ea48e49c8d7.1920x1080.jpg?t=1315587884 here]. So gimme my cookies! >< - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:39, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

When you stop being smug and arrogant. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:05, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

:He's just being silly, not smug and arrogant. (rolls eyes) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:14, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

If someone was congratulated for saying the COD wiki was wrong this page would be one long backslap. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:41, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

Hey, we try. Although [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:CM901#Semi-automatic.3F I did have to correct someone for saying the CM901 was the SP simply because I'd put an SP image on here for lack of a CM at the time.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:00, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:For the record: I did not mean to hurt the feelings of the COD wiki members. I am sorry if I sounded like that. I only wanted to say that there is no SD2 in the game, not that the COD wiki is being run by nooobs. FYI the COD wiki is far the best gaming wikia on the internet. And IMFDB also has a lots of wrong ID's. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:56, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTBPdVpdMc] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:28, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Not saying anything bad about the COD wiki, but Halopedia(n) is by far the most well done and maintained gaming wiki that I've seen. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:07, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::::I agree. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Then you haven't seen the Mass Effect wiki; it's almost flawless. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 14:26, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Oh that's cool, I haven't played any of them yet; on my to do list :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:11, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Say what?!?!?! It's a great game although I've got to admit I didn't play them until after the second one came out. Give it a shot if you have the time you'll probably enjoy it. --[[User:TF141-Archer|TF141-Archer]] 16:34, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

== So... ==

[[Image:NYHarbor MW3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Seems in ''Call of Duty'' land, naval battles never quite got past the "Trafalgar" stage. Wonder if there's some galleons exchanging broadsides in there somewhere. Then again, since it's been seen time and again that handguns are a more effective way of killing people in CoD than airstrikes, helicopter crashes, high-calibre cannon rounds and even dogs, perhaps they have to get really close and try to use their sidearms to one-shot each other. Or it's Treyarch and they're just trying to throw so many grenades onto each others' ships that they sink under the weight of the shrapnel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:16, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
:Also, some of those superstructures in the background look big enough to be battleships. If there are ''Iowas'' fighting at that range and the US isn't just flat-out ''winning'' it'd be pretty dumb. Any modern surface fleet versus a battleship at that kind of range would be a completely one-sided massacre. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:05, 20 September 2011 (CDT)
::I think the big ships with the pointed superstructure in the background are probably meant to be Russian Slava Class Crusiers. I would guess that the US have lost at this point, as the carrier is plainly sunk and it looks like the Arleigh Burke on the left is going down too. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:40, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

== Beretta M9/92FS/etc ==
I think we should include the M9/92FS/92SB under handguns since the box cover art of the soldier carrying the M4 has a Beretta (identified by its open-barrel design) strapped in his holster as his sidearm. Although I'm not sure if it'll see a return in the gameplay, it should be noted. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 00:21, 28 September 2011 (CDT)

== Remington MSR ==
The rifle labeled as the MSR looks too long for an MSR and I think it might actually be a Remington XM2010 --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:18, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:It's been confirmed as an MSR in the multiplayer create-a-class, although I'm not entirely sure if they modeled it correctly, since the chassis for both the XM2010 and the MSR look similar. My guess is that it is. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 19:53, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

== New trailer ==

Today they released a new trailer for the SP, which shows many many spoilers so be warned!
Click here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKgDVruHfo&feature=youtu.be

Any thoughts? IMO, the trailer is great, though still doesn't wait for the game too much :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 16:08, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

:As someone who isn't a huge fan of COD after COD4, this is looking better, though, the singleplayers were always at least pretty good :) Price has a DEagle at 0:25, but you can see his M1911 in his holster at 0:43!!!! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:55, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

::I wonder if Price is going to die again. He seems to make a habit of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:03, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Haha, him and Soap will both almost die again, it's a tradition ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 10 October 2011 (CDT)
::::A response to the first sentence: How the hell can an official trailer contain spoilers? roflcopter - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:46, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Because obviously it shows scenes from the campaign missions, which can some of them if not all, can ruin the experience. Were you really serious about asking that question? :\ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 15:20, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

You can see Price pulling back the slide on a 1911 as he comes down the stairs. Most likely his Springfield from the last two games- hopefully it's actually usable in this one.
[[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 14:16, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

:No, that was the Desert Eagle, but you can see the Springfield 1911 in his holster, notably at 0:43. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:26, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

== Equipment of Captain Price ==

Do you guys think that Price, being a SAS member and not Delta Force member, would have better had [http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/weapons/browning-high-power.php L9A1] and [http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/weapons/c8.php L119A1] instead of [http://deltaforce.americanspecialops.com/weapons/colt-1911.php M1911A1] and [http://www.americanspecialops.com/special-ops-weapons/m4a1-carbine.php M4A1]? Or is there something more to it?

Also, do you think the image of him, holding Desert Eagle, shows off his, ahem, inner mall ninja?

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:15, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

LOL :) Or a P226. I'm currently building airsoft versions of his two main weapons, and I like the project value in making the AR-15A3 and SA Loaded 1911. Hell, I'm building the AR from scratch :O While those would've been more correct, I personally like those two. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:08, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

From CoD4:MW onwards, non of the titles were 100% accurate about weapons, equipment, vehicles and even factions. Of course it would be better to see Price carrying SIG-Sauer P226 or L9A1 and C8 Carbine instead of what he carries now. This goes to the rest of the main playable and non-playable characters. So eventually, what we're talking about here is the matter of accuracy, and as I said, non of the titles starting from CoD4:MW were even close to perfect about that case. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 08:18, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about a man who died on the ''Tirpitz'' in World War 2. Reality and Price are not on speaking terms. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:24, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

Doesnt the 1911 in Price's hand look very awkward. it looks like someone made a cheezy animation in ten minutes. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:50, 16 October 2011 (CDT)
:That was a Desert Eagle...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:11, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:Actually the WWII Price was confirmed by IW to be his grandfather. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:36, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

== dissappointment ==

I find it harder and harder to like CoD. i was all the way up with them from the beginning. Call of Duty:4 is a godsend. great campaign, great weapons, great characters. *SPOILERS* when they killed off Gaz i thought "okay, damn, best character is dead but i guess it wouldnt be a good ending without a great loss. but seriously they have reached a new low. let me be clear i love call of duty, but the simple stupid mistakes they are making, makes me think, if they cant get a simple 30 round magazine right, something we have used since the 90's, this game is going downhill fast. what possible explaination could they have besides lazyness to check the background, um hello Cod4? every other modern game has a 30 rounder. the designers need to listen, they need to fix these stupid mistakes, i think i might be forced to go over to the dark side of online gaming, to battlefield...[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 16:55, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-10-17T01:50:41Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Equipment of Captain Price */

Talk:Justified

2011-10-12T22:59:05Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Raylen's Glock */

==Screencapping==
Does anybody plan on screencaping this? I got the dvds in my Netflix queue. But if someone has purchased the series it would be a lot easier for them. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

this is a realy good show and i would like to give it a proper page so if any one is interested drop me a line on the talk page on my user page. --[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Commander or Officers size 1911?==
So what gun does Raylin use to shoot Boyd in the chest with?
:He did a brass check on it in the motel room. It looked like a Commander model. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:41, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
::I watched the scene again, it's an Officers size. Could be a Kimber. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

==Miami gun==
This screen-cap of the gun Raylin uses at the table in Miami at the start of the episode does NOT look like a SIG Sauer P226. It has large square front end, the possibly after-market spring guide rod is stainless and rather large hex; the grip flares above the hand. Other details are a little hard to distinguish, but I think the ID for this prop gun is still unknown. Ideas?
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3390/snapshot20100318023606.png
--[[Special:Contributions/24.8.253.46|24.8.253.46]] 22:04, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
:I don't see double stack bulges either. I'm going to covert that pic to JPEG and put it on the main page. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:45, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:JT-SIG.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]
::Here is the pic converted. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:58, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:::This doesn't look like a real SIG to me; it looks like one of the SIG [["Non Guns"]]:

:::[[Image:SIGnon-gun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SIG-Sauer Non Gun]]

:::-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

Perfect! Here's an animated image I took off the ep. It clearly shows that it's a non-gun. That's why it looks kind of funny, a little like a Glock, some of the parts don't match, and it's way too simplified. Classic non-gun. Given that I think we're fine leaving it as a Sig Sauer P226. And we have another image to add to the non-gun page.
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6461/justifiednongun.gif
--[[Special:Contributions/24.8.253.46|24.8.253.46]] 02:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
::EXCELLENT! Yes, that tell tale "poof" of the flame and the smoke lacks the 'blast' of a real blank. It's definitely an ISS non-gun. Just remember to list it on the NON gun page as well as the actor page (along with this page). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:25, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

:::''Given that I think we're fine leaving it as a Sig Sauer P226.''

:::Nope, if it's a Non Gun, then it should be designated as such, and not as a SIG P226. We are trying to be an accurate as possible. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:58, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

well first , at the end of "fire in the hole" , at the end he says " a SIG P two twenty six" simmons 8492

As a gun lover and collector for many years, I think I'll chime in with my .02cents the gun appears to be a sig p6 which would be a modern p226 just the single stack earlier version, I highly disbelieve is to be a "non gun' as there is no separation in slide as the image above shows, guide rods are often changed, as I have changed the ones in my carry sig as well.

If you watch the scene it is very very obviously a non gun. There is no movement from the slide and it has the little puff of smoke the non guns do. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:18, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

==The Promo Gun==
I'm not sure if this related to the topic above but, on the Promo shot for the show, show on the original page on this site, the Sig that he is aiming has quite a large bore aperture. Considering this penchant for larger caliber Automatics, I think it could possibly be a Sig p220 in .45 ACP. Thoughts anyone?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 17:17, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

which trailer?.[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

On the main article for this site. It is possibly the lens that was used.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 03:51, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

==End of first episode==
Seriously? They killed the main antagonist in the first episode, now what?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 06:21, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

He didn't fucking die dude. Raylen just wounded him instead of killing him instantly. He'll be back.-ArmoredMason619

He was alive when they put him in the ambulance and he is on the next episode.-Spades of Columbia

But he took a .45 slug and a load of buckshot to the chest! I bet next episode he's going to be perfectly fine (stupid television)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:23, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

She missed, no buckshot to the chest. The have already shown he's in the hurt box but alive. FX tends to be on the level with violence.

He wasn't perfectly fine the next episode. He was in a hospital bed with little movement possible and a button where he can control pain meds. He isn't fine. And just because he was shot with a .45 in the chest doesn't mean much if Raylan didn't hit his heart or lungs. But it did knock the guy down and out of the fight. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:46, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Givens shot Boyd centermass, so it's understood from the dialogue of the other characters that Givens missed the heart on purpose out of some sense of loyalty to Boyd. And if you would pay close enough attention to the dialogue and not just the action, many of these simple questions are answered.

He Says , adn i quote "at glenco , didnt you teach those recruts to aim for the heart?" just the fact that Raylan pulled a one handed pull,and was able to miss intentionaly is a sign of intence training.[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]
:On the dvd commentary, the creators said Boyd was supposed to die. He tested well and when the series got picked up, they brought him back. The scene of him being loaded into the ambulance was added after it was picked up. You could also argue, since Givens had to fire from the hip he couldn't his mark as well.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:01, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

:i like that they kept byod alive. hes a good oposite to raylan. but he was in the hospital for a while, he doesnt get released til the forth or fifth episode. enough tim to heal.--[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

==Glock==
I believe that Raylen is carrying a glock 22 and a glock 27 in the second episode. He even makes a reference to The Fugative as he is a US Marshal. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

I have yet to get a good enough look at what Type/style/Brand of holster Raylin draws from. Can anyone identify the holster or at least get a good picture of it? [[Spades of Columbia]]

The holster appears to be a Bianchi 59 Special Agent Holster.

In S1.Ep.10 Raylen tells the judge the he carries a .45 Glock. Wouldn't that make it a 21?
:Just because that's what he says in the show doesn't make it so. The muzzle is what most use to determine what type of Glock, if there isn't a good view of the slide. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:14, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, but he's saying its a .45 Glock. Now, it could be a G21 or a G37 if it's chambered in .45 GAP -burgershot621

Yeah...because it would be completely normal for a Southern Marshal to carry a .45gap, it would be a ACP if anything. [[Spades Of Columbia]]

In the episode, Raylen states he is carrying a .45 caliber glock. If it were a .45 GAP, he would say GAP. The .45 GAP is farely new, so it is understood that the character is carrying a .45 ACP, seeing as how the majority of the viewers may not be gun hounds like ourselves.-Mr. Peapobdy

Someone has now added the Glock 31 to the page. I'm starting to thing Glock sponsored this show just to advertize their product line.

Alot of the glocks on this page are speculative. For example just because a character on the show verbally says he's using a 45 doesnt mean he is using a real life Glock 21, he might say 45 but is filmed with a glock 17 or 19. Also just because it looks like a .357 sig cartridge doesnt mean its a Model 31 or 32, it might mean that he is using a model 22 with a necked and crimped blank round. They can also use the same gun in multiply seens with diffrent people...for all we know right now they can be passing the same Glock 17 and 26 to all the characters and call them diffrent calibers. [[Spades of Columbia]]

I would have thought an Old School Marshall Southern boy like Givens would use something different to a Glock like a 1911 or even a revolver. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:40, 22 April 2011 (CDT)

==Kentucky==
: As a former resident of Kentucky, I find Raylin's remarks about having to go back to KY hilarious. It is clearly obvious that he doesn't want to be there, and if you've ever had to live there you'll know exactly why-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:15, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think everyone feels that way about one's home state. Besides, there're bad places almost everywhere. Ever been to the backwoods of Florida? It's just like this show.--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 04:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Don't see why he complains so much. I've lived in Kentucky my whole life. I love this place.

==Bulletville==
: Though you'll only see it for a glimpse, it seems as though Ava is using a USPc near the end of the episode, in the cabin. Perhaps Raylan switched his BUG, or just a pick up. Just an added note. [[GWHYSOW]]

I'm not sure where the USP came from, I think Raylan disarmed Bo's thug of it.
Other Weapons were the Revolver & Sniper Rifle used by Boyd. Two other badguys used AK rifles.

I believe the USP came from Bo's guy that was watching Ava in the cabin, then Boyd came through the back door and killed him at which point i believe Ava got the dead man's weapon. [[Spades of Columbia]]

you're right, the USP came from one of Bo's thugs. raylan finishes the fight with his back-up -burgershot621
==Moved from main page==
I hate seeing discussions on the main page do here. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:41, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
===Glock 26===
[[Image:Glock 26.jpg‎ |thumb|none|300px|Glock 26 subcompact Pistol - 9x19mm]]
The Glock 26 is a subcompact pistol chambered for 9x19mm.

In episode 2 Marshal Givens is asked to drop both his gun and his backup. If his primary gun is a Glock 17 or 19 it would make sense that his backup is a Glock 26. Then you have mag and ammo compatibility.

-He states that his primary is a .45 Glock. No .45 Glock is this small so it stands to reason that this would be a 9mm because of Armor safety issues. There's no need for it to be a .357. However, from the size, it could easily be a Glock 33 in .357 sig or a Glock 27 in .40 S&W.

(Regarding statement above about there not being a .45 glock in that size) If you don't know anything about glocks, which you obviously don't, keep your statements off the internet. The glock 30 is a compact .45 glock. In the episode "the hammer" he states he has a .45 glock, which means he has...a .45 glock!! Pay closer attention and think before you type on a website that gun-nut cops (such as myself) visit on a daily basis.

If you seriously think that that SUB COMPACT weapon shown below is a Glock 30, then you've never held one. As a Glock 30 is a smaller COMPACT weapon. My personal belief that this is very likely the Glock 39 in .45 GAP, it's size difference being almost negligable when compared to the glock Glock 26. This show obviously seems to be marketing for glock and it stands to reason that his full size weapon is a Glock 37, also in .45 GAP. So keep your big man mouth to yourself mr "cop."--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 15:26, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I think that we can all agree that this anon "cop" is just some random kid who's parents don't love him enough.. also, my uncle carries a Glock 37, and off duty he carries a Glock 39.. both are chambered in .45 GAP. Oh, and really quick, "gun-nut cop," if you really were a cop you would know not to tell everyone on the internet, and you would have learned how to control your temper. -PunisherDave

You can clearly see it is not the Glock 30, if you've ever held one. The frame size alone is far too small, Glock 30 holds 10 .45 ACP, the 39 only 6 in GAP. My first statement was that no weapon is ".45 Glock is this small" and while it isn't true, I had considered the Glock 30 a outright saw that this weapon is too small. I also wouldn't carry a Glock 30 in an ankle holster, I believe that's where he kept it.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 00:27, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I would also like to correct myself, I don't think this is a Glock 39, I'm pretty sure that the Glock 39 comes with the newer Slide release, the weapon pictured doesn't.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 02:32, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:justified_glock26.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Marshal Givens is asked to drop his backup gun in Episode 2. Looks like a Glock 26. It has the mag boot on it.]]

Could be a 36. Course I'm bad at identifing Glocks. They should show the slide at some point in every show/movie that has Glocks in it, to make the lives of us gun nuts easier. Also, he kept it in the small of his back.-AC

===Glock 21===
In S1E10, The Hammer, Raylan Givens tells a judge he is assigned to protect that he carries a ".45 caliber Glock" making his sidearm a Glock model 21.
[[Image:Glock21.jpg|thumb|none|300px| ]]

-Possibly a Short Frame model.

Very possibly a Glock 37 in .45 GAP.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 15:27, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I love how when I suggest that he might be carrying a glock in .45 GAP it's shot down, but the theory has resurfaced numerious times after and now it seems like a credible option for a U.S. Marshall to be carrying one. --burgershot621

I can't think of a Reason why it couldn't be one. He specifically states its a .45 and glock would want to market it over the 21, surely.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 18:40, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

For the love of God its a tv show...just because a character says he is shooting a .45 does not mean that the shows armour handed the actor a .45 to act with. Number one, where and why would a movie/tv armour buy all but dead calibered hand guns like the 45GAP...and two why would a small town law enforcement agent carrie a hard to get ammoed firearm like the 45gap.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Then by your comment, why do we discuss anything at all on this website? Everything on here is just a movie, t.v. show, or video game. Number one, .45GAP is anything but dead, and U.S. Marshals aren't small town law enforcement. It's a federal law enforcment agency that is part of the executive branch. Doesn't sound small time to me, and sounds like it could stand to reason that it would use a specialized caliber such as .45 GAP. - Burgershot621

Kinda hard to call it a dead caliber when the entire the Georgia State Patrol carry Glock's in 45GAP.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 19:08, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

In the commercial world Yes the 45GAP is dead in the water...Glock themselves are unloading them in hope of getting rid of them at a lower fee, I can buy any model of 45Gap for atleast 20% less then any other model of glock ...because there is NO public demand. Yes, a couple state patrols got bamboozled into issueing them...but do you really think a movie armorer will go out of their way to special order a 45GAP for a TV show and then get specialized blanks for the 45gap..or do you think it is more logical to give the actors another model of glock and just put in the script that it is a 45.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:38, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

dunno, there's been some speculation as to the plethora of glocks shown in this show, such as maybe a product placement deal? who knows. i mean, the last time i looked at the actual page it was listed that raylen used a glock in .357 Sig. Why would he switch from a 9mm, to a .357, to a .45ACP? Just something to think about and no one said that the .45 was definately .45 GAP. its just speculation and is not beyond the realm of possibility...

goodwin's law.

In the commercial world? If you are going by the commercial world then the round would have to be no longer produced by any manufacturer to be dead. Federal, Magtech, Remington, Winchester, and Speer are major producers of ammunition and they still see fit to produce the .45 GAP. If major suppliers of ammunition are still producing a round, then it can't be considered dead in the water. As for .45 GAP Glock's being cheaper, its called supply and demand. The .45 GAP was forgotten by a lot of writers when Springfield Armory made their XD in .45 ACP. The same could be said about the .357 Sig. Except for Law Enforcement Agencies, not a lot of people carry or own a .357 Sig. Where I am, pistols chambered in the .357 Sig are somewhat cheaper than .40S&W, .45ACP or 9mm. They is not a great demand so suppliers are focusing more on popular models. I have cousins and know a lot of Georgia State Patrolmen. They didn't get bamboozled into the .45 GAP. They like it. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 23:29, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Seeing as how Para Ordnance had Springfield have decided to create 1911s and XD's chambered for .45 GAP, the round is anything but dead.---[[User:Burgershot621|Burgershot621]] 00:31, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

In my store we have 6 types of .357 sig, 5 types of 10mm, 2 types of .327 federal...Hell we even have RCM ammo in stock. But not one box of 45 GAP, not one gun chambered in .45 GAP. All my suppliers from MT to Acusport to gunarama to ellett brothers tell me they cant give the .45GAPs away because they sit on the shelf and collect dust because nobody wants them. The ammo is becoming more and more low production similiar to the .32 H&R mag and .38 short colt ammo. Springfield DID chamber the XD in 45 gap but dropped it because NOBODY was buying them...and just try to find a Springfield 1911 in a 45 gap (they talked about it in 2005 but i never saw one). If my memory serves me right i think PARA chambers in a 9x23 so if they do do a 45gap it is meaningless for the caliber and anyway they dont do it anymore. AND Finally, If someone gave me a free 45 gap and my job supplied me with all the 45gap ammo i could shot (like the Georgia State patrol) I would most likely say that i like the caliber too...but that does not mean i would go buy my own ammo and my own personal gun in that caliber. All my customers that bought the 45gap back in the day thinking it would be cool all grew to regret it and are now trying to sell them without lossing their shirt in the deal. I call it dead because it will have no more growth, production will never be higher then the previous year...I am not yet calling the 45GAP a wildcat--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:01, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

soo back to the original point of this...it is possible that givens would have a .45 GAP glock if it was issued to him...--[[User:Burgershot621|Burgershot621]] 01:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

The character Givens in theory could be issued a 45 gap in script form...but it is very unlikely that Timothy Olyphant physically has a .45 GAP in his hands in filming.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:59, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

One of the old teaser trailers had a few good close-ups of the Glock. "17" and "9x19" were both clear on the slide. It may not necessarily be the same one used for filming the episodes, but it seems pretty likely. [[User:Gato|Gato]] 19:48, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, it was pure speculation, based upon the scene we see. If we are going go over this "9mm are easier to blank fire" thing EVERYTIME a glock is mentioned, then this site is going to get very boring. There are many incidents of a director or actor wanting the specific weapon because a person or persons they base their character on, or them just liking a certain caliber. Also, gun companies often use tv or movies to advertise their weapons or calibers or new equipment, if a character often mentions the exact caliber or model number of their weapon, it's reasonable to assume that this is the case.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 00:07, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

It has to be a 21, I just finished watching the whole series and Raylan always fires 13 rounds before reloading, the promo art and the uk box shows a wide bore on the barrel. Coupling this with him telling the judge he uses a 'glock in 45' and tha fact the 45gap glock only has a ten round capacity i think its safe to say its a 21--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 22:31, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok here is my take on this whole discussion as I just finished reading all the posts going back and forth about what Glock he is carrying. Glocks are very difficult to identify on film without a clear image of the slide and model numbers on them. I think if a character says in a show/film that they are carrying a 45 Glock then unless you have a screen cap of the gun proving otherwise then it should be posted as such. This isn't a case like the movie Kiss the Girls where the character says "pick up the Glock" and the gun is clearly not a Glock. Or A Few Good Men when the character says a "nickle plated 45" and the gun in question is a 9mm Beretta. It should also be noted that the 2 most common calibers for blankadapted firearms are both 9mm AND 45acp. That is because the standard pressures of the round can be low enough to be safe to the actors while still alowing the gun to function properly. 40s&w and 357sig are higher pressure/power rounds and therefore not likely to be blank adapted for use in film. The 45gap is a lower power 45 so it is possible but the brass and ammo for them tend to cost more. Just IMHO... if the guy says it is a 45 Glock and he is in fact carrying a Glock (which should be easy to identify for all of us gun nuts) then it should be posted as such and not what we "think" it is because it is "unlikely" the actor was handed what he says he has.--[[User:Ram229|Ram229]] 02:46, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Just watched episode 3 (working my way through the series) and it looks like his Glock is a 9mm. There's a bit where he is talking about drawing and when he draws his Glock it is pointed right at the camera and the bore looks too small to be a .45. It appears to be the a 9mm size.--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:32, 23 April 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:JustGlockBore.jpg|thumb|none|300px| ]]

The bore size of the Glock looks to me to be a 9mm but I can't be 100% sure. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:26, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

==Arts Sig==
in the piolt, art uses a sig to fire at the two fat neo-nazis. it says its a P226, but it looks to compact to be a 226. id say 228 or 229 --[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

==Fixer Guns==
Anyone care to id the guns used in that episode by the bad guys?

== Raylen's Glock ==

After watching the entire series i have kept an eye on Raylens Glock. although he seems to carry at least two throughout the series i can say with some degree of certainty that he doesnt carry a .45 i would suspect it is a Glock 19/23 in the latter half of season 2. the finally made it very clear how small the weapon was. there are several shots throughout the series of the bore which i would doubt to be .40 S&W let alone a .45 can someone else put in their opinions or ideas? maybe with a screenshot or two?? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:39, 11 October 2011 (CDT)

Here's one I uploaded a while back and is actually further up the page:

[[Image:JustGlockBore.jpg|thumb|none|300px| ]]

Looks like a 9mm to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:12, 11 October 2011 (CDT)

thanks, i believe that the only time he uses a Glock 21 is in the episode that the picture is taken on the main page. i would assume that when he fired in excessive of 15 or so rounds in the finale it means either a Glock 17/22. however in the second season his Glock appears to be a compact, any thoughts? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:59, 12 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Justified

2011-10-11T22:39:11Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Raylen's Glock */ new section

Talk:Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

2011-10-04T01:11:25Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* The M4A1 */

=Knives=

== Main Knife ==

This is main melee knife used in Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. The knife attack always kills an enemy in one slash or stab. In Old School multiplayer matches, however, two knife attacks are required to kill an enemy player at full health. This two-hit-kill knifing also applies when double health is applied on Private Matches. It is used by all the factions and moves very fast.

[[Image:Knife_4.png|thumb|none|400px|The main Knife In-Game]]

= Discussion =

Ah, goddamnit. I wanted to do this.
Well, maybe i can make it up to IMFDB standards sometime, just '''DON'T''' do Half-Life 2. - [[User:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]

==MP5==
This is not an MP5A3/SD as previously suggested, as it has a flat sided receiver with pictogram markings instead of the S-E-F markings on the A3.

Wrong, It's an MP5N/SDN, it doesn't have the 4th selector option.

:Please, keep the commentary on the discussion page. At any rate, I added a capture with a clearer view of the selector and its lack of a fourth position. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:42, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

==Screenshots==
I have a lot of shots for the page and will upload them tommorow. -GM

I've got a crapload of good real pictures for a lot of the guns, but I don't have any clue as to how to upload them, so, for anyone that can, email me at r1c0ch37@gmail.com

== You know what would have been better? ==

I kinda wished the creators of this game made more guns for us to use. There are so many modern firearms at least they could put in the multiplayer. Like the G36 carrying handle instead of the rail, H&K machineguns, H&K grenade launchers, a full auto M16 in the multiplayer, the option to put every accessory on your primary, like sights, suppressor, and grenade launcher all in one instead of just pick only one. I know they did that for balance, but screw balance. Let's see, what else? The UMP, Mac-10, Glocks (specificly the Glock 18), Drum magazines, AUG, Tavor, SA80/L85A1, L96A1, MP7A1. I know I'm starting to sound like I'm turning the gun choices of COD4 into Rainbow Six, but that's why I like that game a lot because it has SO MANY GUNS to pick from and the option of putting whatever you want. I want the ability to change firing modes, to add and take off suppressors. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:34, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

: Not to mention having the actual front sight posts still present on optic-equipped M16s and M4s would have been nice. I realize they probably removed it to give better visibility, but still. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:40, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

::Firing selectors would have been nice. Full auto or nothing is kind of lame. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:::According to gamers, the military doesn't use semi-automatic (sarcasm). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:31, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Spartan198
:Yet it's all modeled on semi. Or safe.-protoAuthor 01:45, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

::Well screw hardcore gamers. I have most of the Tom Clancy games and those you can select weapons to semi and auto and even some have bursts mode[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:06,
3 April 2009 (UTC)

:::I agree completely with you. In most situations in-game, I seemingly always find myself tapping the trigger for single shots instead of firing bursts. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

i would have liked to have seen the L96A1 and or the AW50F, as these would have been awesome in cod, also the glock 18, SR-25, and i would have liked to do my own customising of weapons, like on the M16 on the modified version you lose the front sights which just look wrong.

Is ok to put pics on this from other websites. [[User:Drjuki]]

I want a goddamm regular FN FAL and a IMI Galil AR with the wood hand guards. They would be perfect in the hands of terrorists in the game. They already have the G3 why not a FN FAL?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

i would have liked to customised the weapons myself

In my opinion the worst choice of the Infinity Ward was the selection of the MP-44 as "final unlock": is older than the AK-47 and cannot be modified, excepted the selection of the camouiflage painting. Why call the game "Modern Warfare" if the (teorically) ultimate gun is also the oldest???
[[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]] 03-12-2009

I believe the mp44 aka sturm was put in there as an Easter Egg of sorts since this was the first Call of Duty to date that wasnt about WW2.

== Desert Eagle ==

what finishes do the Desert Eagles have in the game? IMI lists several variants http://www.magnumresearch.com/CustomFinishes.asp

Just stainless steel, I think. But don't quote me. I never use it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198
the game has chrome and titanium gold.

Stainless steel, as well as gold once you reach level 55.

The Desert Eagles don't come in stainless steel. It would be too goddamn shiny. It uses a chrome-plating finish. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 06:29, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

==P90 comments.==
whoever keeps deleting my edits bugger off, this gun is awesome it is easy to aim and has awesome stopping power, and to say it is weak and inaccurate is just plain rubbish, u would have to be a fool to fail to kill an oppo with this gun

''Have at it, but remember - this is the last time I play nice.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 19:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

this weapon is the fantastic it is very easy to aim it has good stopping power and at close range it is downright lethal

Can't we all play nice?!?! [[User:Drjuki]]

I stopped playing COD4 because of peoples bickering "Thats a noob gun" "you're camping" "that perk sucks"

There is a crowd who all believe what perks everyoe should have and what weapons, Id love to see a game by their rules, it would be boring. So waiting a few minuites behid a corner is camping, and i'm kicked for it, but they can sit in a building with a siper level the whole match? Tehn there is the p90 debate. Let people who like it use it, do't start telling them there a noob and being unfair.

Come on clutch! Don't be so evil on the kid.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Any weapon or perk combination you use to kill an opposing player is deemed "noobish". Anymore I just laugh their rants off and go on with the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

I think it's sad people (including myself) stop playing the very good multiplayer because of the other players who just ruin it with loud, abusive talking, silly arguments about trivial matters, and generally making it uncomfortable. [[User:Mcguinness]]

the noobish comment is spot on as if u use something that the other gamers dont like noobish sod that i kill the lot of em, and the silly arguements comment is also right it gets down right annoying

== No Browning M2? ==
Why is there no Browning on the page? It was clearly seen in-game.

umm i dont think glitching outside of the map counts unles your counting the one on the M1 ambrams -scarecrow

:As long as it's in the game, it counts to be in the article. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 06:31, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

== Red Dot Sight ==
The red dot sight on the M4 SOPMOD is a Sure Shot Reflex Sight, not a C-More. [[http://www.afmo.com/Sure_Shot_Reflex_Sight_p/217-00588.htm]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

==The 1911 Griggs used looks more like a Kimber TLE stainless==

About the Springfield 1911 in the game I also think it is a Springfield opposed to a Kimber Warrior because I have one and the grip is a lighter color plus it has a different magazine.

umm its a stainless (silver colour) 1911 isnt it? where does it say on the page its a kimber? -scarecrow

==Excerpt from Remington 700P==
*''"Oddly, the M40A3 also seen in game is very much the same weapon, although in the game they have slightly different attributes."''

I have to agree and disagree with this statement, as they can't be classified "as the same weapon", since the M40A3 has its own model number, designation, and role in the Marine Corps; and was modified from the R700P, one change being the finely rifled heavy barrel. However, both rifles, as mentioned before, are made from the Remington 700 model. I think this should be clarified a bit more clearly. Any thoughts? --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 12:57, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Just quick, is the 700p the ltr model or not? Can you tell? [[User:Mcguinness]]

== Bluey? ==
I noticed that some M4's and M16's have "Bluey" on the side. Is there a reason for this? Or just something the designers put in?

*I think it's "Blue 4," possibly to identify who the rifle belongs to in the squad. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:34, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

yea it says blue 4 on both a M4 and M16 -scarecrow

== M4/M16 ==
I added a little more information about how the gas block removal on an M4/M16 would effect the firearm. It is true that is the gas block is removed that the next round will not chamber automatically. the bolt would have to be racked to load a new round. I just thought I'd add that information to the page. It can be removed if desired. [[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

INCORRECT ^

Though you cannot see it, most likely the standard front sight gas block has been replaced whit anyone of the readily available low-profile gas blocks and most likely covered by the rail system or fore-grip.

Thank you...some one realized that it was still there. please remove the text stating it is not there from the main page -supertoaster

== M4 Barrel ==
If anyone's still looking at this page, does it look to you like the M4 has a 16" barrel? It does to me. A perfectly straight 16" barrel (no M203 cuts) and the old style M4 stock. I believe that makes it exactly the same as the C8, which was mentioned as being what the SAS really use, so maybe the M4 in this game is really a C8. If anyone can counter this feel free.

You're right about the barrel, I think, but the C8 has a 14.5", not a 16". Furthermore, if you look at the rifle without any optics, it has an A2 style rear sight, while the C8's is A1 style.

The barrel looks longer because the front sight/gas block is removed when equipped with optics. If you take into account the length of the front sight, the barrel evens out at around 14.5 inches. The "standard" C8 has a 14.5 inch A1 profile barrel, but the C8FTHB (the version used by SAS under the designation L119A1) has a 16.1 inch barrel that bulges out where the M203 step is on an M4 barrel. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:27, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

The L119A1's the SFW, not the FTHB. Although in practice there's probably not much difference. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh right, I forgot about the front sight being removed. Since you never have a carry handle in the SAS missions I wasn't counting that, and I was thinking SFW when I said C8.

Looks like the FTHB to me. L119A1 - [http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/images/M4/C8andAG36.jpg] C8FTHB - [http://www.casr.ca/101-smallarm-1-c8fthb-rifle.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:51, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

The only difference is that the SFW has a stronger front sight to use the HK AG-C/L17A1 grenade launcher.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:29, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Why would a stronger front sight be needed when the AG-C is RIS-mounted? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:44, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

==The 1911 in-game==

The article is full of incorrect information. The MEU (SOC) pistol does have novak sights and a match grade trigger nowadays, and a Springfield Loaded model has front cocking serrations which the 1911 ingame does not. I don't see how it's anymore a Springfield Loaded than the other models the article lists it as not being. It seems obvious it's not any specific model of a 1911 but I'd say it's closer to the MEU (SOC) pistol than anything else. The MEU (SOC) pistol even uses desert tan gunner grips now that look just like the ones in the game.

Not that I disagree that the Springfield Armory Professional 1911 is the 1911 model in-game, but I think that there ''is'' a possibility that it might be a Nighthawk Custom Enforcer Series or GRP 1911. Why? Because the armed forces would likely use higher-ended companies like Nighthawk. Anyway, just a possibility. Any thoughts?

LINKS:

* http://www.nighthawktactical.com/The_Enforcer.html

* http://www.nighthawktactical.com/GRP.html

--[[User:Blemo]] 22:45, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

That's a negative. The Nighthawk Enforcer is basically a Kimber Warrior without the rail, and the rail wasn't the only thing that made the Kimber Warrior a misidentification. The Novak sights are different, and it has a flat top strap across the slide. As far as the military using "higher end companies" They usually buy what's most cost effective and not necessarily best quality, and since Nighthawk Custom makes.... custom firearms, I doubt they'd have a contract that would be cheap, or at least cheaper than competitors. It's still a Professional. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 02:51, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

:I see. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 06:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

It definitly has those grips though, that was the first thing I noticed. It might not be an Enforcer, but it has the same grips.
Here (in tan):

link: http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/detail.aspx?ID=133#

Oh and thanks Blemo for bringing this up anyway because I've been trying to put together an airsoft replica of this 1911 for a while, and now I've finally got those damn grips, couldn't find 'em anywhere. I also put together the M4 SOPMOD the S.A.S. use in game as my primary, which makes me Captain Price :D

EDIT: You guys think it could be this one, a Springfield Armory Loaded? Just add the grips I linked above, I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same otherwise.

http://www.bullshooterssupply.com/store/images/springfield_armory_1911_a1_px9109lp.jpg

EDIT 2: I used my not so amazing MS Paint skills to put this together for you guys (and me)

[[Image:CaptainPriceSALoaded.JPG|thumb]]

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:32, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

It could be a customized Colt since the front sight does not seem to dovetailed into the slide--[[User:Jan|Jan]] 22:36, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for the MS Paint image, Alex. =] Sadly, I'd hate to burst your bubble and say that the ejection port should not be as "shiny" as seen in this image. Plus, the coloration of the slide and frame should be darker. (although it may just be the lighting). --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 06:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

I know, but the barrel, bushing, and trigger are some kind of "silver", whether it be stainless, chrome, nickel-plated, though I'd say stainless the point is those parts are "silver" [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

although more likely for Special Ops to be using Nighthawk's i dont think the designers at infinity ward no what they are. and on the topic of it possibly being an Enforcer model. All Nighthawks have Novak Sights besides the Dominator. and the Grips are easily replacable. so it could be any model from the GRP to the Enforcer to the Talon. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:14, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

== Desert Eagles hammer down? ==

Isn't the Desert Eagles hammer incorrectly down?

Yes but so is the 1911's, and the rest once they've been fired. In the Modern Warfare universe all guns are double action only I guess. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

== M4 In-Game For Airsofters (Or Real Steel Guys Too I Guess) ==

As with I'm sure a number of other people on this site, I airsoft. =D I've been working on a Captain Price kit for a little while, who, as you know, uses an M4 SOPMOD/Grenadier. The reason he uses both is because they're the same gun with and without the suppressor, for the sneaky and not sneaky parts. (And different optics, but his gun is probably supposed to have the same optics the whole time, I'd bet IW didn't want to make a different gun just for him, as most people wouldn't notice.) Because finding EVERYTHING to put together his M4 was a big pain, I'm going to put a list of parts here for anyone wanting to make the M4 and its versions in-game. This would also work for a real one too I would think, at least mostly. This is assuming the base gun is a normal, generic M4A1.

M4A1 "multiplayer":
*16" HBAR (no grooves) barrel
*Old style stock
*RAS
*Vertical foregrip
(Please note this one can't be made using an electric airsoft M4, well, it can, but there'll be nowhere to put a battery. You will need a gas airsoft one or a real steel one.)

M4A1 "normal":
*16" HBAR (no grooves) barrel
*Old style stock
*RAS
*Vertical foregrip
*PEQ-2 (on the front left)
*Tasco red dot scope
*The smallest gas block you can find

M4A1 Suppressed:
*Same as the M4A1 "normal" except with a suppressor (go figure)

M4A1 Grenadier:
*16" HBAR (no grooves) barrel
*Old style stock
*RAS
*M203 (9" rail mounted version)
*M203 leaf sight (on the front top)
*PEQ-2 (on the front left)
*EOTech 552 holosight
*The smallest gas block you can find

M4A1 SOPMOD:
*Same as the M4 Grenadier except with a suppressor, and a Tasco QP22 reflex sight replacing the EOTech 552

For Captain Price's M4 I'm combining the Grenadier and SOPMOD by having a suppressor and an EOTech 552, seems like the easiest way to solve the problem.

I hope this list helps whoever needs it. :)
[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

The barrel on the M4 is 14.5". The missing FSP just makes it look longer. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:21, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

As much as everyone seems to think that, try putting a piece of paper up to your screen with the edge down the centre of the barrel of a 14.5" M4, a real one would be good. Mark off the back of the front sight/front of the RAS/Handguard, and, without moving it, mark where the flash hider starts. This distance will be the same as the length of the RAS/Handguard. Do the same thing to the COD4 M4 Info Picture and you'll find the barrel's longer. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:42, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

== AKS-74 ==

Misinformation - as it is not portrayed in game. Removing

How? It's pointed out that it is not in game and only on the poster. We have the Glock 17 on the Overkill and Last Stand perks, and the PPSh-41 that the statues hold, this isn't any different. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:37, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

== G3A4 ==
Someone commented that this was an HK91 due to the lack of a paddle release on the magazine. Here's a picture of a player reloading it:
[[Image:G3-CoD4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
I don't see much here so what do you guys think? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 16:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Don't see one, look at the create a class picture, no paddle release there either. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:50, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Well the reload animation acts like it DOES have a paddle release, so it supposed to be a G3A4 but the animation forgot about it, just like the trigger and guard for the M203 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:36, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Seems like a HK91 to me.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:03, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:COD4 - G3 proof.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]] --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 20:19, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I saw that it is a HK91 even without looking at Milkovich's proof image. Missing paddle release can be seen on the image with tha reload on the page. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 02:01, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== The Javelin sight ==

I posted this on the CoD wiki initially, but only on a talk page since they don't feature RL weapon info. When you're looking through the Javelin's sight, the display behaves...oddly. [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:BogPar9_3.jpg The light on at the bottom] is supposed to be red and indicates "missile BIT failure," according to the [http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-37/chap2.htm field manual]. The red CLU BIT failure light comes on when it's locking on, and the amber "missile not ready" flashes just before you fire. I'm not sure if this is just normal behaviour or the FM on GlobalSecurity is wrong (I'd defer to anyone who's actually used one of these things for that) or if they just had lights come on at random for visual appeal. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 20:24, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== The M4A1 ==

From Hitman: Contracts Talk page: "HOW the hell can the M4 in COD4:MW be an M4 if it has a 16" non-stepped barrel? I say that is an AR-15A3 with a full auto lower, if something like that can exist" (Stated by bozitojugg3rn4ut)

Does anyone else agree? I do. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:34, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

:I'm thinking the AR-15A3 is the most likely, but at any rate, here are the differences between the COD4 M4A1 a real M4A1. 16" heavy barrel (non-stepped), M16A1 flash hider, original M4 stock, M16A1 pistol grip (in 3rd person, can't see it in 1st), and a KAC RIS. Also, being a civilian gun could explain why the selector is set to semi. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:10, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

::But the M4A1 in MW2 and MW3 have their selector switches set to semi too. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:02, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah... but there were so many other things in those games I just call that lazy. AUG with no rear sight... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:41, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Which game? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:12, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::MW2's AUG has no rear sight, an aftermarket rail-mounted front sight, and a 30 round magazine that holds 42 rounds. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:02, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Aw, okay. Never played MW2 so I wouldn't know. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:42, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Don't, it will make you depressed :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:14, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Never planed too. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:29, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::::This site's MW2 page has pics, they're enough [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:13, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

* Looks like this thread died... Bye Bye Thread. (P.S.: I still say that let's change it to AR-15A3. Will do it tomorrow if no one comes up with a good reason not to.) - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:20, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

although not a solid reason i would just keep it. its not a big deal but for any onlookers there not going to understand it [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:11, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

User:Dirtdiver6421

2011-09-13T00:07:01Z

Dirtdiver6421: Created page with " hey guys whats going on"

hey guys whats going on

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-08-25T02:07:44Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Weapons Wishlist */

==Moved from main page==

These are the weapons from the leaked info which are of dubious authenticity and need confirming. Only officially confirmed weapons on the main page from now on.

''Information leaked to the website Kotaku.com included screenshots claimed to be of some of the weapon models for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3. Most weapons appear to have multiple configurations and attachments, however at present the authenticity of these shots has not been confirmed.''

=== Walther P99 ===

[[Image:WaltherP99 twotoneA.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Walther P99 with silver slide - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Walter_p99_01.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:MW3-P99-Light.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|P99 with pistol light.]]

=== MP-412 REX ===
As in the games Battlefield and Red Steel, there is an appearance of the Russian .357 Magnum revolver, the MP-412 REX. The MP-412 REX was a double action revolver with a break open frame and automatic ejector. It was developed for commercial Export by Izhevsk Mechanical Plant but never went into full production due to lack of interest. Yet another firearm that was never actually sold anywhere (except for a few prototypes in Europe) that appears in a Video Game.

[[Image:Mp-412-1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MP-412 REX - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:Mp412_pistol.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

=== SIG-Sauer P226 ===
An SIG-Sauer P226 pistol is seen holstered to an SAS operative's vest. This is accurate, as it is used by the British SAS in real life.

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Sas lmg.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The pistol is holstered to the center of the vest.]]

=== Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion ===
The [[Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion]] is a weapon also seen in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Because of its black pistol grip, it looks like the Yugoslavian made Skorpion.

[[Image:CZ_Vz.61.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Skorpion Sa. Vz.61 with 20 round magazine - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Yugoslav_Model_61_Skorpion.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Yugoslavian made Model 61(i) Skorpion distinguishable by it's black pistol grip - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Skorpion screenshot layout 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Skorpion model.]]

=== HK MP5A2N ===
The Standard MP5 returns from [[Call of Duty 4]] with an A2/A4-style stock, instead of the A3/A5 Collapsible stock. The forearm has also been replaced with a Knights Armament Rail Forearm.

[[Image:Mp5 new2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[MP5A2]] model.]]

=== FN SCAR-L ===
The [[FN SCAR-L]] is a new weapon shown in the screenshots. While it was only shown used by a soldier on the multiplayer background of [[Modern Warfare 2]] and wasn't usable, the version shown is a player model, and would probably take the place of the SCAR-H. The model has black scheme, flip-up iron sights and 5.56x45mm NATO Magpul. Note that the rear sight, although still cropped, is oriented correctly, while [[Modern Warfare 2]]'s SCAR-H rear sight was placed backwards.

[[Image:FN_SCAR-L_(Standard).jpg|thumb|none|450px|Third-Generation [[FN SCAR-L]] - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:Scar light 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The SCAR-L model]]

=== FN FAL ===
The [[FN FAL]] is a weapon also seen in [[Modern Warfare 2]]. This is the same model, featuring combination of the [[FN FAL]] and the [[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine]].

[[Image:FN_FAL_50_00.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN FAL]] 50.00 - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]
[[Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine]] - 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:Novinka169 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[FN FAL]] is in the hands of the character in the top middle frame and in the hands of the characters in the bottom right two frames.]]

=== Short Barreled AK Variant ===
Seen above in the top row, second from the right and the first and second from left frames on the bottom row. Likely a successor to the AKS-74U "SMG" in Call of Duty 4 and Modern Warfare 2, but, nevertheless it's still an assault rifle.

[[Image:Novinka169 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Remington Semi-Automatic Sniper System ===

[[Image:Remington rsass.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ===
The [[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle|Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle]] is one of the weapons seen in the screenshots. This version is the Mod 0 version rather than the Mod 1 version in [[Modern Warfare 2]] as evidenced by the SAGE collapsible stock, rather than the previous AR buffer tube type stock with Magpul CTR/MOE stock.

[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] - 7.62x51 NATO, with a Harris bipod and vertical RIS foregrip.]]
[[Image:M14ebr.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] model.]]

=== Barret M107 ===

[[Image:Berrett M107.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Barrett M107 long range sniper rifle - .50 BMG. Noteworthy is the holes in the lower part of the buttstock and the rail that runs along the top spine of the rifle.]]
[[Image:Barrett m82.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Armsel Striker ===

[[Image:SWD-StreetSweeper.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Striker iw5.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
=== Kel-Tec KSG ===

[[File:Kel-Tec KSG Shotgun Oleg Volk 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:Ksg.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Heckler & Koch M320 ===
The [[Heckler & Koch M320]] grenade launcher is a new weapon (or more correctly, attachment) shown in the screenshots. This could be a replacement for the [[M203 grenade launcher]] as used in both previous installments, but nothing is confirmed at this time.

[[Image:XM320_stock_extended.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Heckler & Koch M320]] - 40mm, with optional telescoping stock.]]
[[Image:M320 grenade launcherh.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[Heckler & Koch M320#M320|M320]] model, attached to an [[M4A1]] carbine with XPS Holographic sight and suppressor.]]

==Discussion==

Oh God, another Call of Duty. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:05, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

AK74su-type(AKS-74u)weapon in screenshot as well as FN FAL similar to the one in Modern Warfare 2.

Visible in this screenshot

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/prague_resistance_rioter_civ_02.jpg

Also, there's some type of Sig Sauer pistol in this screenshot on the chest

http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/sas_lmg.jpg

Looks like the M18 Smoke Grenade returns. -[[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:07 AM (EST)

I see a P90 lying on the floor in the premiere trailer, in what appears to be a subway station. Appears to follow the MW2 Design, with the iron sights instead of a built in red dot. -[[User:Timaman]] May 24, 2011 22:09 PM GMT+0

http://timaman.deviantart.com/art/Possible-P90-in-Mw3-210170147

I noticed what appears to be a holstered Colt 1911 on the UMP wielding SAS members right leg, you can see it just above where the picture finishes, at the bottom. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:08, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

:I saw that too, hopefully the MW1 1911 comes back, it better, but it also looks like it could be a P226 with wierd lighting. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

I hope they put an ejection port on the M4 this time.

== Title ==

This page should be moved to "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" since that is the official title. Don't let the "Modern Warfare 2" page confuse you, that's fucked up also. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:49, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I also think that the title should be the official title, so I already changed it. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:40, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

==Issues==

We have no confirmation from anyone that any of these images are legit. Should this page even exist? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't see any evidence proving to the contrary either. We'll live, if it's not legit, then it'll be taken off. Seems like an insanely elaborate hoax to basically render half of a game's weapon arsenal and create a ton of concept art, in addition to the images of the NPC skins and such. You could be right, but, in all likelihood... this is a leak of legitimate information.

If it is legit though, how do we know it's final? This could be a deliberate leak of outdated info and models. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:11, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

Even if it isn't final, it's still worthwhile to put in. The G3 was in a trailer for Modern Warfare 2, and the last time I checked, it was still on the imfdb page.

There is a update to this Modern Warfare 3 leak. Robert Bowling of Infinity Ward tweeted this: "A lot of hype & a lot of leaked info on #MW3, some still accurate, some not. To avoid spoiling the experience, I'd wait for the real reveal." So I'm guessing the leak IS legitimate [[User:SeanWolf]]

Well, as much as I think Bowling is a self-absorbed hipster, this is good. I assume the "tangible" pics and stuff like that are more concrete than some of the story details and map names "Plaza 2", was probably changed/cut. Either way, good for identifying stuff.

Oh god, the KSG. Here's hoping they use both of that weapon's mag tubes instead of restricting you to only one of them --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 23:02, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I am a huge fan of the KSG. Yeah, I really agree with you there. Though, in the previous Modern Warfares, they've limited the M1014 to the capacity of a KAC Masterkey for balancing purposes. Wouldn't get my hopes up.

:My biggest fear with the KSG is how IW or whoever is really making it will make the KSG act in-game. My thought process tells me "Somehow, I think their gonna make it fire like a double barrelled shotgun, two shots at the same time". Given IW's creditability and COD's inaccuracy with real world weapons in game, this to me seems like a likely possibility. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:38, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, but, would it really be that noticeable? I mean, what would be the difference over firing one round? It's still a pump-action, so regardless, you'd still have to rack the pump back. They didn't make the Ranger shotgun or the Olympia fire both rounds at the same time, they're double barreled as well.
:You actually got two firing triggers when you use a single Ranger --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:12, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Which is plausible, because it has two triggers on the real-world model. On the KSG, IF, big IF, they made it fire two rounds at the same time for some reason, they'd probably operate under the assumption that you're switching tubes between each shot. I don't know, just giving IW the benefit of the doubt for now. They don't seem to have messed up with any of their modern shotguns except in the realm of magazine capacity.

I might be the only one, but whats up with that weird aimpoint/ holographic sight combo on the M4? is that even possible?
: Yes, it is. EoTech makes [http://www.eotech-inc.com/product.php?id=50&cat=1 optics] specifically designed to be used in conjunction with their holosights. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:59, 28 May 2011 (CDT)
cool, I never knew that. Thanks

==Winchester Model 1887==
What in the name of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit did they do to that shotgun. *Pukes all over keyboard*. I mean, I love CoD as much as the next person (I just look past the mistakes (Russians with Tavors, and TDI Vectors)), but THAT just looks ridiculous!!! - [[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:09 AM (EST)

I mean, it's the "CoD Universe", IW can make the Russians use whatever weapons they want. It's no different/worse than Special Operations personnel using MP5k airsoft replicas [They did in MW2], or using MG4's for that matter, and ACR's. Call of Duty was never intended to be a military simulator, even less so starting to really become obvious with MW2 [A US Army General firing a revolver on the front lines]. However, on topic, the 1887 never should've been in the game in my opinion. There are plenty of shotguns, and IW seems to just copy and paste things from movies rather than being original. As for the depiction in MW3, at least they made the 1887 unique. Granted, it's silly, but for a game weapon... it's much more fitting to "tacticalize" it.
:Also as far as multiplayer is concerned, the removal of the enlarged loop means that you will no longer be able to flip cock it, therefore no longer able to dual wield... unless IW does it anyway which means that technically the player would be breaking their fingers every time they do a flip cock. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 17:10, 18 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, gonna' have to side with you on that one. IW showers in the over the top, unoriginal, borderline plagiarism from popular movies. There's no logical advantage for them to include the 1887 unless it's able to be dual wielded. But, like you said, they may have tacticalized it to be a "modern lever-action shotgun", whilst taking out the dual wield capability. We'll see.
:I'd rather see them give us a nice lever-action rifle than the 1887 again. Not enough games have them, and it's not like "the army doesn't use them" is a valid excuse in a series where a military firing range has Deagles lying around. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:54, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

I'd rather them just scrap lever actions altogether. Certainly, the argument of "The army doesn't use them" isn't really relevant, perhaps the argument "No army would even consider using it" is more fitting. But when nobody uses an overall design archetype (Lever Action) in a tactical setting, it seems silly to include it as a shotgun or not. In other words, in my opinion, lever actions have no place in Modern Warfare both the game and the concept. 1887 should've never been in MW2, because it set a precedent that it was okay to put absurdly pointless weapons in CoD games.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Several armies not only considered using them but actually did. That's rather more than the number of armies which have ever considered using the WA2000 or Desert Eagle, which last I checked was zero. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:12, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Which armies? Were they in this century? If not then it's irrelevant to the term "Modern". Most, if not all lever-action overall designs were prominent before the turn of the 20th century. No modern military uses lever-actions when they could just be using more modern semi-automatic weapons that operate on various methods (recoil/gas/etc).[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Um, Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1, and there's several modern designs like the Browning BLR. Most sniper rifles in military service are still manual actions (as opposed to marksman rifles, which are the semi-autos), they just tend to be bolt actions rather than lever or pump. Leverguns are just as common in military use as gas-operated rotating bolt pistols, $80,000 semi-auto rifles or off-axis blowback subguns (ie not), and more to the point, the setting of an invaded US means civilian weapons can be included within the setting. For example, you could have a level where you're a Marine who was on leave and only has his hunting rifle and his wits to make his way through enemy lines and assemble with his unit. Or given that such levels usually have a helper NPC, you're the Marine's kid who insisted on coming along to help fight the good fight. For bonus points, reveal halfway through the level that the kid is the Marine's daughter rather than his son; I'd pay good money to watch the forum fallout from that. "Kotick made me play as a GIRL! Now I have COOTIES!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:17, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:You do bring up a valid point, MW3 is based in an invasion US. Theoretically, they could add the civilian weapons for this reason, but CoD has always been a strictly military deal. But then again, MW2 involved an invasion US, and there were no civilian player-characters. Furthermore, "Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1", this game is not in WW1 and warfare/technology has changed quite a lot since then. There is nothing modern about the BLR's design, save for some features that make it easier to use (Moving trigger/detachable magazine), and still... it's not used by -any- military, current or otherwise. Bolt action sniper rifles are just that, bolt action, not lever action, regardless I'm talking about service rifles/shotguns not high end sniper rifles. Lever-action weapons are not common in militaries of this century (21st) by any means. Lever actions should not be included in a modern military setting, year 2000 and beyond. There are no lever actions being used by any current formal military force as far as I'm aware, certainly not the ones we're talking about (NATO countries, Russians). They've got no place in modern warfare because the design has been outclassed by others, hence why they're not used. Even in Khyber pass bootleg weapons from Pakistan/Afghanistan, or South American countries, it'd be a stretch to see them using lever-actions... the design is -that- outdated.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

::Again pointing out that no military has ever used or considered using the Desert Eagle either. Or the SPAS-12. Or the TDI Vector. Or the WA2000. CoD's weapon list has been in la-la land since we had German soldiers with StG-44s at Stalingrad in the first game and hasn't really come back since then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:00, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:For different reasons. No modern military uses lever-actions because they're outdated. Desert Eagle, should never have been in the game, not saying it should. It's not used because it's not practical. TDI Vector, it's not used because it's new and the benefits are negligeble. WA2000, it's a trophy weapon which has a price-tag of a BMW and less than 200 were built, obviously not a choice. SPAS-12, used by various militaries around the world (Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh), in addition to SWAT/SRT teams around the world. The weapons you listed are not used for various reasons, not for being antiquated technology. You can't deny that IW put the 1887 in because it was "badass" in the Terminator movie, that's the only reason. The STG44 thing doesn't bother me, seeing as it was used in WW2, which is the timeframe in which the game was set, though in limited numbers later on in real life. However, the 1887 has no purpose in game or out. The Desert Eagle, has no purpose in real-life but it does serve a role in game (High Damage sidearm with low mag capacity). Thus, the Desert Eagle is tolerable, the 1887 is just pointless. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the section is titled "Winchester Model 1887", not "Weapons that shouldn't be in the game" thus I would focus on this weapon, rather than the others in the game that shouldn't be there in my opinion. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 12:53, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not entirely sure why you're opposed to this, though; we've already got a laundry list of weapons no military would ever dream of using, so one more or less hardly matters. I'm saying I'd rather see a lever-action rifle than the 1887 again, since that would actually be a nice variation from the usual bolts and semi-autos and could be interesting for variation (levers being faster but harder to use while prone). I equally don't see the point of trolling out the antique shotgun again, this time with a stack of silly accessories on it that makes ''Black'' look positively restrained. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:50, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::A lever-action rifle would have been a great idea in Black Ops, but not in the "Modern" Warfare games where they should stick with using the correct "modern" weapons that each country actually uses, plus some other '''sensible''' new age weapons. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:33, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
:My point is that the design incorporating a lever-action, has no place in any modern military setting, at all, shotgun or rifle included. It'd be akin to using a flintlock in a modern warfare video game, it's simply outdated technology on a design level that's no longer used by modern military forces. That is why I'm opposed to it, it's not like the TDI Vector or Desert Eagle not being used (For different reasons, which I explained in depth, none of which includes an outdated design) because they are both modern weapons that incorporate modern designs. Bottom line, if you want lever-actions, play Red Dead Redemption. Granted it's a video game and not a military simulator at that but IW putting in outdated weaponry simply because it was in a movie, when they are supposed to be working with pseudo-real world operators and scenarios, is silly. The tacticalized variant as shown in MW3 is certainly a step in the right direction, if you want a pristine replica of a beautiful antique weapon, again, Call of Duty is not the appropriate place to search for such and nor should it be. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 11:12, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::In what way is it outdated? Modern lever actions fire faster than bolt actions, can use non-tube magazines (even detachable ones) and thus fire pointed bullets, and are of comparable accuracy to bolt actions. Aside from issues with firing while prone (which are hardly impossible to deal with) they're not outdated in any sense of the term, certainly not to the extent a flintlock is. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:30, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the issue of firing when prone is -highly- critical when compared to how modern-day bolt actions are used, mostly/all by snipers who fire from the prone position frequently. They are outdated as service rifles, like I said earlier in comparison to semi-automatic gas/recoil driven weapons. The main revolution of lever action was the rapid-fire aspect and magazine capacity (Compared to single-shot/clip-fed weapons of the era), which have all been outclassed by miles in reference to modern semi-automatic rifles. Like I said,''' agree to disagree''', not going anywhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::No, it's definately an issue of lack of will to do it rather than any technical inferiority. Armies are used to bolt actions in their manual rifles and don't see the need to change to weapons that have ''different'' advantages and disadvantages but don't offer a substantial overall improvement. It's hard enough persuading them to adopt things that ''do'' offer a substantial improvement, after all. Also, I have no idea why you keep bringing up semi-autos, not everything is a marksman rifle. I was never suggesting using a manual action weapon as a replacement for anything other than a ''different'' manual action. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Agreeing to disagree, could refute what you said with evidence/concepts but it's not going to do anything. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==Barrett M107/M82 Error==

It seems IW thinks that there's some sort of bolt/ejection port, being visible on the left side of the receiver of the M107. As far as I know, the left side is flat and the right hand side has the bolt mechanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's like this in MW2 and not in CoD4.

To clarify, it seems that IW has made the M107 receiver open on both sides, rather than just having the bolt handle on the right. Probably should be corrected, but can be lived with. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:57, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

== Gunz ==

Is it just me or anyone else agrees that these guns are f#&king ugly? What did they do to that poor MP5A2? Not to mention the Winchester and the "AK-47". BTW the game will take place around 2012, yet the Russians will still use the "AK-47". Well, it is still better than them using U.S. guns, right? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:26, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

How do you know the game will take place in 2012? If Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare took place in 2011, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is 5 years later (2016), so how MW3, which is a direct sequel to MW2, taking place in 2012? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:39, 14 May 2011 (CDT)
:Sorry, my bad, I thought COD4 was in 2007 since it was releases in that year. I knew that MW2 was 5 years later, thats why I wrote 2012. Anyways, that won't make the difference. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:32, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Again, Call of Duty was never meant to be a military simulator. If you want realism, look at the Battlefield series and ARMA series. Call of Duty has always been a playable action movie, that happens to be based in a real-world (First 1-3, Black Ops, WaW) or fictional (Modern Warfare) war.

Russians have used AK variants since the late 1940's... that's over sixty years of use. What's so outlandish about them using it for another twenty? IW calls it an "AK-47" because that's what people identify as the general AK weapon pattern. It's a video game. How exactly is it better than them using US weapons? Many foreign nations use the AR platform, amongst other weapon systems designed in the United States. Hell, most of the United States' small arms are provided/designed by Fabrique Nationale, a Belgian company. As I said before, it's a "Call of Duty Universe", not an explicitly real world universe, IW has creative license to put whatever weapons in the hands of whatever faction they see fit.

As for the weapons, they look fine to me. Some have been tacticalized, yes, but it makes them unique to the game and in specific cases like the 1887, it makes it more plausible for an almost 130 year old weapon to be included in a Modern setting used by people who have access to better designed shotguns. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I am wondering why we don't see an 870 or a Mossberg in these games? It's weird as well that they would include a really old gun like the 1887 but none of the pump actions. And the SPAS-12 doesn't count because it's been overused in this series to death. I bet for the ACR's reload animation, they are not going to have the model press a button to release the bolt. Most likely they'll just reuse the AK reload animation and have the shooting hand reach over and rack the charging handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:17, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:For the sake of it, I do wish we could have a 870 or a Mossberg in-game, even if it was one of these "Starter" guns. I wouldn't care if it was "Tacticalized" or not, as long as it's there. I could somehow imagine in a perfect world following MW2 as an example, a Remington 870 MCS as a primary shotgun loaded with slugs and a Aimpoint Sight with the Bling Perk while using a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser that was "Tacticalized" as a secondary shotgun loaded with Buckshot. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:43, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Thank God they are bringing back a full size MP5. I am so sick of the MP5K. And what is up with the magazine on the M4? Is it supposed to be a 20 rounder or they messed up the design again? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:19, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:Amen to that! Though somewhere in the back of mind, I sometimes think they're gonna add the MP5K back in as some "other" weapon, maybe if they were to stick to MW2 styling, I could imagine it as a Machine Pistol alongside maybe the PP-2000 and TMP. Also, I can't escape the feeling that IW is gonna try and copy Treyarch in some way by trying to copy Black Op's example with the AK(S)-74U and attach a grenade launcher to it. It would be awesome all the same though. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:55, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well at this point, I've just given up on reload animations in Call of Duty. I agree, I am stoked for the full sized MP5. As for the M4, no clue, could be to balance it somehow? But, these are probably early development screens, wouldn't put it on being concrete just yet. If a MW3 forum goes up, I'll see about getting a 30 round magazine back for the M4 as I did see the MW2 M4 in a few of the screens on the Kotaku locations video. Shotguns, yeah, 870 would be lovely but... I could care less, why use a shotgun when you've got 7.62x51

Seems like they're pretty covered on the shotgun front, except for a traditional 870 style. But, I am a bit worried regarding the LMG's. None shown. Banking on the M27 IAR. CoD4, M4 with Bandolier, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact on Hardcore was my impromptu IAR class, always loved the concept. Either way, would like to see the return of a M249 variant (Mk 46/Mk 48). [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I had heard rumours that the M249 was reappearing as a "Possible" returning LMG. But I had also heard that somewhere, IW was going to make three variants of MG's featured in Multiplayer. Ranging from Light Support type weapons similar to "Black Ops", with 30 round magazines like the HK21 or RPK or just modified assault rifles with a bigger magazine, as well as other LMG's and SAW's like the M249, with GPMG's being the M240 or the M60 and finally mounted HMG's like the Browning M2 fixed into certain tactical positions.

Source? Wouldn't get my hopes up for ADDING any weapon classes, at least until I saw proof. IW tends to want to simplify things, not divide things up and add diversity. However, even if they put all of those types into the overall LMG category, would be wonderful. M27 IAR, Mk 46/48, RPD, PKM, MG3, M240L are my top choices.

However, sniper rifles are a subject of concern for me as well. MW2 including ONE bolt-action? This was a fatal flaw for me, the M40A3 was so much fun to use and the Cheytac kind of sucks. They've got a good lineup of sniper rifles here, RSASS, M107, EBR, but no bolt-action. RSASS is a good move because I've always wanted an SR-25 type weapon in CoD. They need a Russian sniper rifle of course and a few bolt actions (M40A5 or XM2010, Desert Tactical SRS (Bullpup bolt-action), and L115A3 would be all good choices). In addition, I've always wanted to see a Mk 12 SPR sniper rifle in CoD, something that did low damage but had a high magazine capacity. Would be great for Hardcore. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

very exciting looking at those leaked pics....and i gotta say its a nice line-up of guns so far...some old standard ones (M4, AK-47; M107) and some new ones i've never seen before like that KSG or the Magpul FMG (OMG the box gun from Robocop2!!!). Also i'm very glad to see the old 203 gone in favor for the newer M320! The AA-12 is cool but i didnt like it in MW2...it was just not that usefull because the boxmag so was spent within a second. the 20round drum mag would make so much more sence.
I really hope they bring back the M249, preferebly as the Mk46 or even Mk48 and introduce some new Russian MG like the PKM with the Blackwater-Rail System.
One question though: is the KSG something very special or simply a bullpup pump-action shotgun? [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 07:20, 16 May 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, again with the sporterized AK's, dont suppose they actually look at what the Russians use.

:The Russians have been looking at AK's with various rail systems. Take a look at the AK-200. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/27/ak-200-rifle-the-21st-century-ak/. Regardless, it's Call of Duty, not a simulator by any means. The AK in MW3 looks to be a step in the right direction over the airsoft-inspired replica in MW2. The KSG is a pump action shotgun which features the use of two tubes, doubling the capacity of a normal shotgun in this configuration and gives the operator the ability to switch tube magazines once one is expended (Due to magazine capacity laws). But in practice, it features a 14+1 magazine capacity, which is astounding when compared to normally configured shotguns like Remington 870's. Also, it features a twelve and I believe six o'clock rail for mounting of accessories. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:If it's got a six o'clock rail, does that mean we'll be able to stick a Masterkey on it and have a shotgun with a back-up shotgun? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

The KSG is a pump-action shotgun. If you did put an underbarrel-type shotgun on it, then you wouldn't have enough room to pull the pump back enough to eject a shell. Besides, that would be unnecessary and impractical. The KSG had two magazine tubes, so if you needed a breaching round, beanbag round, or etc. instead of buckshot, then you could just switch the feed over to swap from lethal to nonlethal. A question about the MP5, what differences are there between the Navy and A2 model? Other than the lower receiver being metal with a new trigger group instead of synthetic with a German fire selector layout. The MP5 in MW3 looks like a Navy model but I'm guessing there's a reason someone changed it to A2. Just wondering if I was wrong. And how do I automatically leave a sig at the end of my messages? xD new to the site. -

:You use the masterkey as the pump, silly. It's genius! (Or rather, it's no less silly than some of the things the series ''has'' done in the past). Leaving a sig is four tildes (~) in a row. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:27, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:But if you used the masterkey then it would take up all the ro- oh I see what you did there. And thanks for the sig help. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 01:34, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:Plus, any under-barrel attachments have been confined to the Assault Rifle class, and more recently, the AK74su "SMG" in Black Ops, which in real life... is still an Assault Rifle. Shotguns have no precedent in CoD for having under-barrel attachments of any sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Can someone help me identify the weapon the guy on the front-right is holding? Looks like an RPD or RPK to me http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/wtfisthisk.jpg/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:44, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: Pretty sure that's the RPD, yep. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:21, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Only not-yet-seen weapons I saw during the trailer were the P90 at 0:32, FAMAS at 0:35, UMP at 1:04, RPD at 0:52, and an unknown weapon with a flashlight at 0:55, looks to be a bullpup of some sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:38, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: The weapon at 0:55 looks like an AUG to me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

My thoughts exactly, or a Tavor. The barrel looks too thick to be either though, might be a flashlight/suppressor? [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:10, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==HELL YEAH==

the guns are supposed to look rusty and mangled and outdated because its a fully urban war environment like homefont

i think the new model looks badass in a stealthy black camo

does anyone know if these pictures have been confirmed to be real

: Robert Bowling said that the leaks were mostly accurate, likely alluding to the fact that they're from an early build of the game. So some stuff might've changed, but this is what we know so far. What model are you talking about specifically? I don't really see rusty and mangled anywhere, the weapons all look pretty pristine to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:35, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

==The tossed magazine doesnt look right==
In the newest trailer I noticed that a soldier tosses a magazine to the player but it's easy to see that you cant see any bullets in the top of it. I don't know that much about M4A1 magazines. Is there a door that opens when it's inserted into the rifle, did the devs over-look this or what?

: Probably due to either being lazy or being an early build of the game. IW's track record is so-so for magazines, on a normal AR-15 magazine, there are two lips at the top of the magazine and the rounds feed through them. The magazine will spend most of the time in game, being lodged in the weapon, so it's not really that big of a deal to me personally. But you are correct, the magazine model doesn't look 100% accurate. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:06, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Thanks. The real world acuracy and high detail in the MW games is what sets them apart from all the other games based on modern combat. I hope that was just an eary build.

Sorry Anon, but no, if you want real world accuracy play something like ARMA, or even Battlefield, but not COD. The weapons either aren't handled properly, or have thing on them that would never be, or are mounted wrong, or are used by people who never would, or have stats that don't work for the real weapon at all, or are out of scale, and they STILL havn't added +1 in the chamber. For better or for worse COD is a playable action movie, and the graphics literally havn't been changed since COD4. I can't really comment on 1, 2, or 3, but MW fits your description well, it's not a military simulator, but it was quite good. WAW was okay, but it was pretty much just the COD4 Marine missions for the whole game, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot etc. MW2's singleplayer was good but not amazing, there was too much that was just a little too far fetched, and a few glaring plotholes. MW was like a war movie (Saving Private Ryan/Black Hawk Down/etc.), but MW2 is an action movie, that's why it wasn't up to par with MW in my opinion. BO had potential for a good singleplayer, but the had a serious, conspiracy filled plot, and tried to make it a bad ass action movie at the same time, and those don't go together very well. COD games have good potential, but it always seems to get wasted. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

==Plot Holes==
So the campaign takes place in (from what appeared in the leak) New York, France and Germany. Besides the massive stupidity of Russia invading the U.S. East-to-West. How would Russia manage to fight it's way through Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine, the Baltic states and the Czech Republic into Germany AND then through Belgium and Holland to get into France. At this point, I think even China would be over-extended watching over eight modern, democratic nations and be fighting a a war with two of the strongest of these plus the U.S. But at this point Activision could release a fifteen minute demo and it'll still sell millions of copies. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:16, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A possible explanation is that in their new found "ultra-nationalist" rage, they take over or make a new alliance with all the former warsaw pact countries. That would explain a few things on the man power problem, a possible explanation is that similar defense system breaches occur in the attacked areas (like in MW2 DC got waylayed pretty early). Maybe NATO got complacent with the Russian threat and signed a non-aggression pact(WWII). Still I agree with you there is no way in hell they could attack NYC, Germaney, England, and France all at the same time having already attacked the eastren seaboard in Mw2. Seeing as CoD is the 10 ton ape in the consumers eyes, it really wont matter.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 01:44, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

::The plot for London getting attacked is (or atleast was) that terrorists funded by the Russians attack London. The SAS raid part of the Docklands (I think that is East London) where the Russian terrorists are, but basically end up chasing them all over London, ending with a gun fight infront of Parliament (surely we'd also see one of the Guard regiments as well, since they're both in London?). Whilst I'll let the "London's Burning" bit of the plot slide as it is plausible (if ''very'' unlikely), I agree, the rest doesn't seem to make sense. But hey-ho, this is CodMod, where reality takes a back seat so that we can enjoy bombing around in Berlin, Paris, NYC and London... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Guns ==

I like the way few of currently known guns are going. AK-47 looks a lot more like rifle that Russian Army may use some time. It has cheapest Crane Stock and not one of most espensive ones (Yeah, Vltor one is expensive as fuck) and handguard is basically one ris rail on each side with rail covers. Not full plastic handguard. G36 is plain and easy which is both suprising and awesome. M4 seems like its pretty cheap too. I like that Czech Vzor 61 is back, hope it will be in hands of Czech partisans. Anyway, few guns are ugly like fuck. For example that winchester or MP5.

Well, game will suck like all of those "new" CoDs from World At War to Black Ops. But it will be atleast a bit interesting. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:04, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: I don't understand what you mean by "cheap". There's nothing wrong with Crane stocks... The AK in MW3 doesn't even have a Crane stock, it's a standard LE stock, which is a good stock. You don't need a Vltor stock to shoot a weapon accurately. AK rails don't have to be crazy railed hanguards like in MW2, which was largely inspired by an airsoft weapon. See Travis Haley's one-off MAG-K from Magpul, using the Ultimak rail system. The cost of a component doesn't effect how it behaves in game, or in real life for that matter, it's reliability and effectiveness that count. What's wrong with the handguard with a rail on each side with rail covers? That's generally what rail systems are. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:13, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Yes, i know. Thats what i meant. Any army on world (especially Russian) would hardly put shitload of ris rifles on their weapon and overpriced stocks. By cheap, i meant cheaper than MW2.

: I still don't understand what you mean by cheaper. How? Like, in real world money costs? In aesthetic looks? The Russians are putting different rail systems in their modern AK's, see my AK-200 link from Firearmblog. Russia has arguably one of the most powerful and modern militaries in the world, what would discourage them from placing RIS rails on their service rifles like everyone else? Tapco, the company that makes the rail system and stock adapter for the AK in MW2 is one of the cheaper companies in terms of quality and price, Tapco still makes good stuff regardless. Just confused as to what you mean by cheap. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:09, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: No one else ticked off that in any of the videos or demos present, there have been NO new guns? Granted, the AA-12 has a new skin, and so does the MP5, but no drum mags for the AA-12? And to be fair, I preferred the MP5K. But seriously, in MW2's Cliffhanger demo, there was tonnes of new weapons and attachments shown, like the ACR, FAMAS and the new AK. But so far, the only "new" guns that were leaked in images haven't been shown. I'm really disappointed in that. [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 12:12, 14 June 2011

== Pistols ==

Am I the only one completely pumped for the P99 and P226? Hopefully both are usable and rendered well. I tend to get more excited over the pistols rather than assault rifles in video games.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:15, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Nope, you're not the only one. I'm ''slightly'' disappointed that they seem to be going with the 1st-gen model, but otherwise, I'm hoping for the execution, so to speak, to be superb and the rest of the game to be worth 60 bucks. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 23:25, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

I'm looking forward to seeing the SIG pistol too. Always had a soft spot for German guns. I hope it's usable and not just part of a character model ... [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 23:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Looking forward to both, and more. Preferably the USP and M1911. M1911 was epic in MW1 and in MW2 they took it away from multiplayer, and in Black Ops they made it black in singleplayer and chrome in multiplayer for some silly reason. Hopefully they got the silver/chrome out of their systems with the P99 already. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:36, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Part of me says "Yes! A game that you can fire a P99 and it's NOT James Bond." Another part of me says that Hand Guns, unless automatic, serve no perpise in todays FPS world. Oh I miss the Golden days.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:55, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:That's funny, since I PWN most people in FPS' who have Assault rifles or Submachine guns with my '''semi-automatic''' handguns, especially in MW1 with my USP45 :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:53, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::I agree, COD4's USP was amazing. In COD4 handguns were how game handguns should be. Most people suck with them, but if you get good with pistols, they kick ass. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:16, 29 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Yeah, most people in WM1 waste a whole pistol mag by rapid firing at me (even with a Desert Eagle!) and I just double-tap them in the chest, end of story. One time I ran into three guys at the same time in a small room and I just wiped them all out in seconds and then two more showed up (one had a SAW!) and I rapidly took them out before they could fire a single shot. All in all, I wiped out five guys with a my USP45 in about 10 seconds! That's why my friends nick-named me Vincent, you know, from the movie [[Collateral]], because I can take down multiple people very quickly with a USP45. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:44, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::::I start to get annoyed in most FPS when the pistols are severely underpowered. Like in Black Ops- in reality a few shots from the 1911 would put somebody down, but I've had instances where it takes one and a half magazines. I still agree that MW1 got the pistols right, and IMO it is the best CoD to date.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:25, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Thats what I did when I sniped in CoD4. Since I suck at sniping, i usually got more 1911 kills than R700 kills. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 12:36, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I agree, COD4 had pistols right, amongst other things. I am a bit worried about the Machine Pistols continuing from MW2, it's not fun going against snipers who are so well armed. A sniper should have a pistol and his rifle, that's it... not an Uzi... especially not a Raffica that's essentially an M16. Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense. In MW2, snipers use their MP's to assault positions and run around as if they had an SMG. This isn't cool. Regardless, I think they need to make sniper rifles less of a close range deal. People pride themselves on using the Intervention at close range, and using the M40 ACOG to no-scope. This is so against what those two weapons are designed for I can't even think straight. But, this's off topic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:48, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Arg, yes, I HATE quickscoping soooo much, but yeah, the balance to snipers is they only get a pistol, so they (are supposed to be) stuck to long range fighting. Oh, and I hope shotguns are better, not like MW2 1887 better, like MW1 W1200 better. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:43, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
:The funny thing is that real US snipers use a M16 or a M4/M4A1 as they're backup weapon for they're sniper rifle along side a possible M9 pistol which would be a backup, backup weapon. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Don't quite see how relevant this is. As I've said before, CoD isn't a simulator. Also, I distinctly said "Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense", in a paragraph and in a section regarding MW3, a video game, in order to defuse any realism comments. It's simply not fun/balanced, in my opinion. In real warfare, yeah, there's really no room for fairness... but it's a game that can be adjusted to be the most fun for everyone. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:19, 1 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I know, just say'n. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:I understand that quickscoping takes skill, but it still makes me sooo mad. I think that they should find a way to limit sniper rifles to long range only. Anyway, back on topic, I realized that Quantum of Solace actually got the pistols right too. Two or three shots from a 9mm puts someone down and one to two from a .45. This might be because the game really focuses around the P99 and other pistols more than rifles/submachine guns.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Doing something that's silly can still take skill. Putting my hand in the mouth of a Shark and yanking it out again without a scratch takes skill, but it's still silly. Skill can't be the sole factor in weighing an action's legitimacy. There should be no ACOG option for any sniper rifle, especially bolt actions. Period. I'd be in favor of making a 6x or Variable Magnification scope available for sniper rifles (and assault rifles in the case of the former). My point is not that quickscoping is done, it's that IW has created a game in which it's possible. It needs to be made impossible. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:36, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Very well said, it is not legitimate because it takes skill, you might as well put Rock Band gameplay in and FPS if you think like that. COD may ot be a simulator, in the sense of what people use, unlikely events, etc, but every FPS needs to have the weapons used properly, in a technical sense, and so you can't snipe with a compact pistol, or quickscope, etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:12, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

It would be so nice to see a stealth mission where you sneak into a complex (probably as price and soap) to kill a leader and you have to sneak through hallways and vents with suppressed P99's with a fellow soldier like in Prypiat in COD4. WHY cant this happen. It would be a nice change of pace and not feel like a straight rip off of All Gilled Up like Contingency did in MW2.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:37, 06 June 2011 (CDT)

:These are nice additions, but I'm still hoping for an XD or XD(m) -- preferably in .45 caliber. :P [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:03, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==
Is it possible that the soldier catching the magazine could be holding a [[Armalite AR-10|AR-10]] 7.62x51mm rifle? Since the developers finally learned about magnifiers maybe they think they could make a hybrid sniper/assault rifle by using a bigger bullet? I just don't see a reason why soldiers would be using 20 round 5.56 magazines unless they figured out it bigger magazines don't work well in prone. Plus we do see that fire selector switch on semi? I personally think it's a AR-10 with a shortened barrel.
:Sorry dude, but the mag is too small to be a 7.62x51mm, it's defiantly a 556'er. So it's a goof on IW's part, at least for now. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr.
Wolf]] 08:31, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::Here's a thought, in Black Op's they modelled some guns with Extended Magazines when the "Extended Magazines Attachment" was added, perhaps IW has done the same? Maybe the 30 rounders are extended mags, while they revert to 20 rounders for default? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Well that's just dumb. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:02, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::And yet they made it so that an M4A1 could carry 45 round magazines without changing the magazine on the model in MW2. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:15, 27 May 2011 (CDT)
: Yeah, there's no way it's an AR-10. They've already got something similar to an AR-10 in the RSASS, which is akin to the SR-25/M110. Draco, my thoughts as well. It still doesn't make sense, but if extended magazines show up on the gun as a 30 rounder, would work. That in my opinion, is Black Ops' greatest contributing to CoD, taking abilities away from perks and adding them to attachments. Example, the taped/dual magazines in Black Ops, gave a slightly faster reload time and added more ammunition in total. This took an emphasis off of having Scavenger to last any long period of time and allowed people to balance Bling and Sleight of Hand.

: Furthermore, everyone seems to think that IW is making a system whereby one folds down the 3x magnifier and uses the EOTech singularly and vice versa. I really think IW will be using an EOTech as a separate attachment, and a magnified EOTech as its version of an ACOG. I have yet to see a picture with a regular ACOG, correct me if I'm wrong. By all means, it would be preferable to have it behave like in real life where you could use both or the EOTech in different instances, but sadly I think IW may just be saving on development time by combining the two. However, what I think is more likely/logical is for them to include a traditional RDS/Reflex, and an ACOG, while including the EOTech with magnifier as one attachment to make it different from the RDS.

: IW could also be making the M4 with a 20 round magazine because they want it to -act- like a 7.62x51 NATO, i.e. be more powerful, so therefore they'd have to balance the ammunition capacity. IW is notorious for making weapons with silly statistics, like the SCAR-H being 7.62x51 NATO and having a very small amount of recoil on full-auto.

::I doubt that. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::If anything, it seems the most logical explanation for them making a 20 round magazine standard on the M4. The M4 was one of the weakest assault rifles in MW2, so it's logical that they'd try and up the damage on it and offset this increased damage with a smaller magazine/semi-automatic fire rate. It's still silly, but IW isn't dumb. They may not be well known for making a realistic game, but balance is kind of their forte, even if it's manifested by making weapons have odd properties. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::You know what, It would be really funny if IW made the 20-round magazine hold 30 rounds anyway, lol. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:48, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:PS - There is a picture of the MP5 with an ACOG from CoD4 in the leaked pictures from Kotaku, assuming this won't be in game. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:45, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's because they're comparing the MW3 MP5 with the MW1 and 2 MP5s. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 05:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::That's also why I put that PS there, it's a toss up between a comparison and including them as variants. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:21, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Cover Art ==
What is that the dude is holding on the cover art? It first glance I thought it was a TAR21 or something similar, but now I'm thinking its an M4 of some sort, but with an AFG Magpul grip attached instead. Could someone clear this up for me? --[[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 14:09 25 May 2011 (GMT+0)

: Yeah, it's just an AR variant with an AFG on it. It seems that IW has received a lot of sponsorship from Remington and Magpul, so it's possible that the AFG may be included as an attachment, though that's very doubtful. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:37, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: Ahh, its nice to choose having a grip, but choosing the actual grip model is a luxury we will probably never have in CoD. Ironicy, it is one of the thigns I want MW3 to deliver, weapon customization like in Army of Two 40th Day. That was/is a BEASTLY game for weapon customization. Like PMG on console. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 12:26, 26 May 2011 (GMT+0)

:: I think COD's decent enough in terms of weapon customization, one step they could take is allowing Bling Pro to give you three attachments (Not including M203/Masterkey in my opinion) and add a few more attachments that were in Black Ops and ones that aid in recoil/accuracy that aren't sights. Or, the more preferable solution in my eyes, is to separate attachments from perks altogether. In other words, get rid of Bling and just give people the ability to customize their weapons. There's no invisible wall preventing one from putting attachments on a weapon in real life. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:08, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Yeah, it worked for Brink afterall. just make it so having a grenade launcher stops you using throw lethal grenades, or stops you from having a first perk, simple as. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:12, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

== MP5SD2 ==

I think there was '''NO''' MP5SD in the reveal trailer. The COD wikia has it wrong. [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_3] It is a normal A2 with a suppressor, unless the SD2 has rails around the built-in suppressor. Well, this game is pure sci-fi so, I don't know.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:29, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Without agreeing or disagreeing (I'm indifferent toward this game at the moment), I don't see anything that would prevent IW from sticking rails on an MP5SD if they wanted. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:37, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Err... Guys? ==

Just remember that there's still no guarantee this is even getting released, depending on which way the pending lawsuit goes. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

*I imagine it'd come out regardless, just without the Modern Warfare brand if Activision loses. You know, like it was going to be with FEAR 2 being just "Project Origin" before Monolith bought the franchise from Activision. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::But if Activision loses, and can't use the MW brand, doesn't that also include, and mean they can't use the characters either? Like Price and MacTavish? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:48, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::I don't think so, even when it was "Project Origin" FEAR 2 was going to have Alma in it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:52, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::: If it is being pushed through to November, it's going to be released. Activision wouldn't risk losing their baby of a franchise to go out like that, they aren't dumb. COD games come out every Holiday season like the sun rises and sets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Flip-Up Sights ==

The german magazine GameStar did a preview on the game, apparently IW and Sledgehammer showed two levels of the game in London. And they write something about "flipping up sights" as a new feature. It isnt explained what this means exactly, nor is there any picture/video material of it, but it could be a hint about it. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:They're probably talking about that magnifier; I guess that means you really can control if it's used or not (D-pad function, perhaps). Games magazines can usually be relied on to get every piece of firearm terminology they try to use wrong since they learned gun terminology from video games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:24, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::They actually use the german term for Flip-Up sights, so i dont know. I posted the question in the comment sections, maybe i'll get an answer. But even if it's the magnifier, still an improvement. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:42, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::The minute I posted this, I got a response. You are right, she means the magnifier. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Either way, seems to be an improvement. Thanks for the info! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:23, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Samopal Vzor 58 ==
In Prague level (Czech Republic), Russian soldier can be seen holding an AK type gun that seems like Samopal Vzor 58. Off course its most probably just wrongly lighted AK-47, but it may sense that he captured it from Czech Army as it takes place in Czech Republic.

[[File:Samopal Vzor 58 MW3 probably.JPG|thumb|left|200px|Well, it would have been really awesome if IW included this rare weapon.]]

[[Image:800px-Sa 58-JH01.jpg|thumb|left|400px|'''Czech Sa. vz. 58P''' ''(Pěchotní aka "Infantry")'' with fixed stock - 7.62x39mm]]

Just look on it - It seems to lack AK ejecting port, it may lack top-mount RIS rifle and gas block looks shorter. Also, body looks almost tiny compared to 7.62 magazine.

:: There's already an AK variant/format weapon that's not of Czech design, IW wouldn't put another in just for kicks. What you're likely seeing is a lack of modeling, or lighting as you indicated, for example the M4 in MW2 didn't have an ejection port simply because it's a mirror image in terms of a weapon model, laziness on IW's part. As for the magazine, the mags have always been a bit oversized on MW AK's, but they're not ridiculous. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:31, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== New Weapons Confirmed ==

From reading several previews posted 5/26/2011, multiple games press have confirmed a few weapons. Modern Warfare 24/7 has a list of these previews here (http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/first-mw3-previews-screens) while the one that details the weapons by name are found here (http://aggregame.com/news/2011/05/26/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-preview/). Weapons confirmed in closed doors preview include: AK-47, P90, M4A1, Spas-12, AT-4, and XM-25. The XM-25 has been called the "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" or "a nod to the crossbow" in other previews. Also confirms the usage of a "hybrid" sight mixing acog and red dot and its use. Lastly, theres a "9-bang" which is a "cluster bomb" of flashbangs and/pr stun grenades that you throw (I don't know if that one is a real life thing but someone who's more versed in gun/warfare knowledge confirm please). Please update main imfdb page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

: Modernwarfare 247 is notorious for labeling firearms inaccurately, they did so with MW2 on several weapons before correcting it after the game came out. There's nothing in the Modernwarfare 247 article that says XM-25, but either way, it's not a sniper rifle by any means. Would be a cool inclusion if it's in. Dunno what the 9 bang thing is, stun grenades and flashbangs are increasingly irritating, I don't think they need to be made better by any means. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

You are correct that the Modernwarfare 247 article doesn't name the xm-25, I merely mentioned that it had a list a previews and that some of the previews do. The one paticulalrly from aggregame.com, which I linked, mentions weapons by name. Many articles of the gaming press, who clearly don't know guns like the people on here, claim a "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" on the New York level. Aggregame.com's article says this in the 3rd paragraph quote, "We see a new type of weapon used in this level called the XM25. This weapon uses a laser rangefinder to determine the distance to the target and once fired, detonated at the proper distance to produce an airburst effect. Anyone hiding will be properly taken out." Now, judging from the grammar used (though this is only a hypothetical analysis) he mentioned it being "called" an XM-25. Meaning that the game files at this stage of development identify it as such, not that he used it and was like "oh I know what this is". Judging from the description of many gaming press articles (again linked by modernwarfare24/7) it 'seems' to be the real thing. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

:Arg, I was just in the middle of adding that :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:55, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Ahhh fair enough, gotcha'. Hm, well I hope they actually make it semi-automatic and with a small overall ammunition capacity. IW seems to shower in explosions and knifing, when they're making a -shooter-. I dunno' why they don't focus on making their conventional firearms better. Either way, nice snag on the info. Though, I will still caution you on MW247, I encountered them in my MW2 forum days and they weren't reliable at all. The 9 bang thing is troubling, what the hell was wrong with the Stun/Flash grenandes? Stun Grenades are -way- overpowered in my opinion, granted being stunned is an effect of a common flashbang, but being paralyzed -and- blinded, isn't. Regular flashbangs are enough, nothing else. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:59, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah, I wouldn't mid COD so much if they toned down the knifing, seriously, it's not sothing you should use because you couldn't think to do anything else, it should be a very last ditch defence, this goes for all shooters. What's strange is when I play COD4 (cause I still play 4 :) ), there's very little knifing if you watch the killfeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:My thoughts exactly, Commando is silly. They had it right in CoD4. One thing that really bothers me, is that even on Hardcore, when I'm face to face and lighting the person up... it's still possible for them to knife me and walk away. Getting shot should interrupt the knife ability, and it shouldn't work faster than bullets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:30, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Exactly, it's not that it's one hit kill, it's that it's so damn fast! Bad Company 2 got the knife right, you press the button, and it kills them about a whole second (that's a long time) later, it's mostly an assassination weapon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Just wanna throw out, the XM-25 is now also confirmed by IGN. Link here: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1171345p1.html. Someone can edit the main page appropriately as I'm not the most professional gun expert. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 22:23, 30 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

The "hybrid ACOG" could be one of Trijicon's ECOS models which have a small red dot sight mounted on top. And within a month, everybody will be whining about how "unfair" it is to have a scope and an RDS in one package... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Controversy ==

Well, it was inevitable, but the controversy's already gotten rolling.

[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110393-Daily-Mail-Voices-Concern-Over-Ultra-Violent-Modern-Warfare-3 Escapist: Daily Mail Voices Concern Over "Ultra-Violent" Modern Warfare 3]

[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Fortunately, most gamers care about good games regardless of content. personally, I could care less what the media says. Not a big issue, always going to be this somewhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:12, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: The controversy is exactly what they want, it's good promotion. Just like that whole "airport-level" in MW2 was. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 07:12, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::Yup, it's good marketing for them, people become more interested when all the soccer mums etc. cry out about something. Until we see games like GTA actually getting banned, we FPS players have nothing to worry about. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:54, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Killer, Alex, those are the most truthful words ever. They dont care about decency or people, they care about MONEY. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 17:58, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:I get upset every time I see footage of the Towers falling, but that doesn't mean I think such images should be censored. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown Ak Variant ==

I was think the gun listed as the Unknown Ak Variant might be a AK74. I thought this because it appears to have a longer flash hider, which the AK74 encorporates, although I wouldnt hold my breath. Thoughts?

: If you check out the flash-hider on the leaked Kotaku screens, you can see that it's emphatically not the AK-74 typical flash-hider. It's something I've never seen before, it's like just the last few centimeters of the AK-74 flashhider, married to the barrel. Magazine looks too curved to be the AK-74, so it's probably a 7.62x39 AK. AK Variant is good enough for me, CoD's AK's are always pretty non-specific. :) [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:52, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:: On first screen, that unknown AK variant looks like Vzor 58 rifle as it doesnt have AK´s ejection port/ bolt. On second screen, its just normal AK that is on one of those leaked shots. They arent same, as first gun is longer, thiner and lacks top mounted RIS rail.

: It looks different because it's in the dark and is low-res, whereas the leaked one is in the bright daylight and is a high-res closeup. It's the same weapon, there is no reason why IW would include both being so similar.It doesn't have the bolt/ejection port because IW is lazy and uses mirror images of weapons to render their models. Where the end of the receiver meets the stock adapter and the angled area of the receiver around the magwell are dead giveaways that it's not the Czor in addition to the spacing of the ribs on the receiver, which on the Czor are very close together. The magazines are always a little bigger, just CoD's style, and even then the magazine looks just fine to me. It's an AK variant, not the Czech make.

:As for the length, it's the same. What you might be confusing is where the gas tube meets the barrel as the end of the weapon, in the reveal trailer capture, the barrel ends near the man's thigh it's just hard to make out. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:01, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

Shouldn't the AK-74 in the main page be called "Unknown AK variant" or something like that? It's a bit hard currently to determine what is the correct variant, but by the leaked footage, this could be the same customized AK-47 like in Modern Warfare 2 only with different flash hider, handguard (which is also in black instead of tan) and black stock instead of tan. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:50, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: The railed foreguard is distinctly smaller. The stock isn't a VLTOR-type stock, but an LE one. Also, in the CoD Elite snippet trailer, one can see that the leaked Kotaku picture is legitimate. It matches the AK in that perfectly, this is a new AK weapon model for sure not just a painted one from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:25, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

== Call Of Duty: Elite ==
Kinda off topic, but this site's COD talk pages always end up becomeing half about discussing the game anyway, I was that trailer for Elite, and man, they expect us to pay for that? I mean, it's cool, but Bungie's been doing that with Halo forever, and it's free... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:02, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:The only color that matters to Activision, is green. I don't get it, your company produces the top-selling franchise of recent history, and you still want -more- money... get over yourselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 17:13, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:Meh. Don't like it, then don't pay for it. Vote with your dollars. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 06:41, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I agree, and I don't plan on paying for it. Bungie did heatmaps/statistics/awards/etc for free... Activision is marketing Elite as some sort of CoD Facebook with the occasional prize won. As long as those are the only perks, then I will not be paying for it. However, if they decide to transform it into some VIP membership giving members say, discounts on map packs, early access, or different weapon/abilities that are available no other way... then it's supremely disappointing and insulting to the people who spend an already outrageous $60 USD on the very game they produced. I understand that Activision is a business, and the goal is to make money... but this just seems like overt greed and a way to cash in. It's also detrimental, because for some odd reason, CoD seems to set the paradigm for all FPS's of late. So, other companies now feel pressured to emulate CoD in order to make money themselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:45, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I'ts been pretty much summed up already. DEFINITELY not buying this, and I'm still not even sure I want MW3. I saw somewhere that there are no dedicated servers, which was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing that could save it is...well...a miracle. I am probably just going to go with Battlefield 3.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:36, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not expecting much from MW3, but I will get it for the singleplayer, just to see what happens with Price and Soap. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

They buy it used. Kick Activision where it hurts.

Battlefield 3 looks great, really high hopes for that one. MW3 doesn't look bad necessarily, just the same stuff in a different package. Will get it and play it a ton, but, as far as a good game being made, Battlefield 3 is going to take the cake. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:03, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, well said, I don't think MW3 is gonna be BAD, just the same thing again. BF3 looks awesome though. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:49, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Not going to lie, I'm going to buy this to round out the MW series (hopefully it ends with #3), and I'll be buying BF3. I will not be paying a single cent for the Elite service though. There's no reason for it to exist as a pay service. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:55, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

DICE also just blogged about their FREE BattleLog thing, which is pretty much the same as Elite. But free, because DICE seem to be less concerned with making dough and more concerned with producing a decent game and making their customers happy. IW makes their customers happy, sure, but most of those customers value big 'splosions rather than deep and interesting gameplay. I love CoD, but Battlefield is long overdue and as a company, EA/DICE are good in my book. Really looking forward to the Multiplayer footage and information that'll be coming out of E3 in the next few days. Seems a bit odd though, nobody seems to be posting regularly on the BF3 Discussion thread... get to it! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

Ummm... is Call of Duty: Elite directly related to MW3? If not, shouldn't it have it's own page? Please correct me if I'm wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:04, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Elite is some kind of online service, not a separate game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:36, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== TDI Vector in Call of Duty Elite, MW-3 Snippet? ==

In the snippet of mw3 at the end of the Call of Duty Elite trailer, when the player is killed the stock of the TSI Vector from Mw2 appears on his back.
[[File:TDI Vector.jpg]]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 22:04, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: Yep! I noticed that too. It's prolly indeed, the TDI Vector. However, I did notice that stock somewhere else on a weapon it shouldn't be in MW3, I can't say where, I just feel like I saw it somewhere. Good spot! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:24, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Could that be the M93 Raffica from MW2? I've always thought the stocks look similar. Although why a pistol has a stock in the first place is beyond me. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:39, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:::To make it a more stable firing platform, especially for a pistol that fires in full-auto/tri-burst. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:33, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== E3 Footage ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfTBe_PJrQ
Some firearms could be seen here. AA-12 confirmed. --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 13:26, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

You can see the AK-74u, P-90, and Glock 18 as pickups at times 5:14, 5:22, and 6:46 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

AA-12 is used for breaching the bridge of the sub starting at 6:16 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:52, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

I am nowhere near impressed with what we've seen out of MW3 so far... Good spots. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

2nd E3 Trailer spots at trailer found here (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-call-of/714784?type=flv). AK-47 as pickup at 1:29. 0:09 Driver of Humvee screams "RPG!", Dshk mounted on enemy vehicle at 1:40, M2 on automated gun system on Stryker at 2:16, Mi-24 using Yak-B gattling gun at 2:53, 9-bang used at 4:27, RPG (with RPG-7 sound from MW2) fired towards allied npcs at 4:50, XM-25 usage starting at 5:20, AT-4 as pickup at 5:30, AK-47 Grenadier seen as pickup at 7:00 possibly a gp-25 or a gp-30, Spas-12 as pickup at 8:12, Thermite grenades at 8:40, Reaper Drone weapons used starting at 9:25, M134 Minigun sighted 10:32, and RPG-7's fired at player shortly after, M134 magically taking down Hinds for remainder of the video (Hind cockpit glass alone is 12.7mm resistant).
:Wow, four years were not enough for them to realize that there is no such sh*t as "AK-74u". - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:21, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Hehe. Even when I name my classes I always find myself putting the 's' in it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I've seen people refer to the S model as a "Ak47 pistol". I mean, seriously, a pistol? makes it worse the bloke who said it is a retired soldier who fought in Vietnam. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:41, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
Note how they say 12.7mm resistant. With a m134 you have 50 rounds a second heading for those Hinds. Now I've known people who are attack helicopter pilots and they do not want to get hit by a minigun as while such things as Titanium armored tubs will take the hit such things as armored cockpit glass cannot due to the number of bullets hitting the "glass" Sort of like how you can drop a quarter on a car window and it will bounce but if you drop a tin can full of quarters it will break the window.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:38, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The worst thing was that you got HIT by the crashing Hind, then HIT the building, fall out of the Blackhawk (almost), pull yourself BACK IN while it's spinning out, and GET BACK ON THE DAMN M134, then, oh we're fine, let's keep on flying... Oh, that and the HUGE BRICK OF C4 that you breach the Bridge with, and it doesn't hurt you... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:58, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::MW3=$60 MW2 DLC. Not impressed by anything I've seen so far, other than it taking place in NY; but Crysis 2, anyone? -Kangabox

Few more finds in the msnbc coverage of E3 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/43349883#43349883). Some gameplay of spec-ops shows (at 0:30) a man running around with a lever-action rifle/shotgun of some kind. It looks similar to the M1887 shotgun from the "leaked" photos a month back. At 0:53 the gamers are using what appears to be the Bushmaster ACR but I may be wrong because I'm not a gun expert. Someone please identify, thanks. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 20:50, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

:Did anybody notice that the MP-5 was called an MP-5k? and that the ACR was called ACR 6.8 --[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

More MW3 stuff. M1887 spotted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRx33M0V6I --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 01:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Actually, that may be a hint at caliber change options and the option to remove/attach stock.We'll see. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:03, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:^ This would be so awesome --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:58, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I doubt Activision would put something semi-realistic in CoD, but if caliber change was implemented I would buy it just for that reason.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:17, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::: Imagine what an 7.62X39 ACR would be like (it can be modified to use it). Just kill the bad guys and pick up their AK magazines. Awesome. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:38, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 18c ==

Should this not be put down as a Glock 17 seeing as it's likely it's the exact same gun from MW2? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]
:We should wait until we get a good shot of it before we make a decision, although it is likely the same.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, Jazz :) -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

== Unknown pistol from Late Night footage ==

[[Image:FN57MW3.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

Can anyone help identify this pistol? Looks like an FN Five seveN to me (sorry for bad quality) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:15, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yep, that's a Five-seveN alright, cool. EDIT, it holds 15 rounds. Wow, hardcore fail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:I had figured they'd do SOMETHING to balance it, either keep it at 20 rounds and give it low damage, or reduce mag size to keep it similar to other pistols --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:46, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Is there a link to this footage? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-61311/1333686/ Also confirms the inclusion of the Model 1887 in the game --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:36, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

FN five-seveN- YES! One handed grip- meh. Could get over it. Once (or if) they confirm the P99/P226, I will be more excited. At one point, the developer says something like "This gives an action movie feel. We tried to make it a cinematic experience." That is what CoD is- an action movie. If you want a military sim go to Battlefield.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:23, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:True that, I will always enjoy both games because they offer completely different experiences despite being the same genre. I'll be more interested in MW3 when they start announcing some MGs, but the Five-seveN is a pretty cool addition --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:53, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Gotta agree with both of you, there, I'm psyched for an FN five-seveN in a game like CoD. -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 00:43, 15 June 2011
::"Wow, hardcore fail." Alex, what the f#ck did you expect from a call of duty game. +1 round in the chamber? Some things will never change. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:53, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Haha, I was never hopeful enough for +1, but until not they'd gotten almost all the mag capacities right, especially since the 20 round mag is one of the most notable features of the Five-seveN :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::::If it did have 20 rounds, people would complain that it was overpowered. All in the name of balance! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:51, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Not if it was very weak, no one complained about the 20 round Five-seveN in the Counter Strike games. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:16, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::There is that I suppose. It'd probably never be used in favour of something a little more powerful with fewer rounds though. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:22, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

:And of course it's probably still going to have 15 rounds in single even though multiplayer balance is totally irrelevant there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
::Good point, didn't consider that. Screw Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:12, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

I am starting to realise that if ammo sharing between primaries and secondaries comes back from Cod4, most SMGs will have an advantage, as of now there are many possible combos (P90/Five-seveN, MP5 & FMG-9/P226 & Glock 18 and possibly UMP45/USP45 or M1911). This would make Scavenger (if it returns) unecessary and would open up a perk slot. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 19:38, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:That would be awesome! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:04, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 back in MW3 ==

Does anyone think the M1911 will be back in Modern Warfare, and I found a 1911 looking gun when soldier blind-firing with a UMP45 in the reveal trailer [[File:UMP45-MW3]]

:I know the shot you're talking about, it could be a 1911, I HOPE it's a 1911, but it could also be the P226 with wierd lighting on it, if there really is a P226. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:46, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope both are included, the selection of secondaries in Black Ops was paltry, more pistol choices plz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:54, 16 June 2011 (CDT)
: yeah more pistol choices because in black ops I only used the m1911 and the python.

:I only use the ASP, I know it was highly outclassed by all the others but it was obscure enough to make it a favourite.--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:41, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:I like all the pistols in Black Ops (except the Makarov, I've never liked it), but the problem was they were almost all the same, low capacity, low damage, like the WaW pistols. While we're talking about pistols, has anyone else noticed that the sildes of the COD4 pistols actually locked back when empty, and the WaW ones had working hammers? Then starting with MW2, it just became part of the animation, so it would fully cycle, then appear back when you started reloading. Black Ops continued this too. The only pistol in MW2 that locked empty was the 1911 because they just copy-pasted the whole thing from 4, and the only one to lock empty in BO is... the 1911. Apparently they just reskined the WaW 1911 in BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:06, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Can't say I'm surprised, I suppose the majority of players don't notice small inconsistencies in weapon function animations. I guess they could get away with copy pasting the M1911 from CoD4 into MW2 as it was only featured in campaign, which in itself was pretty lame as it was the only sidearm I used in CoD4 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah Ive heard about it and sceen it do you think they fix the bug --[[User:GVK2009|GVK2009]] 22:01, 16 June 2011 (CDT)GVK2009

: I wouldn't be surprised, it's kinda become a tradition to have it in the series. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:36, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::They better, if only so Price can have it like in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons Wishlist ==

Any particular guns that people are hoping to see in MW3? All I need in order to be happy is the M240. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
:Hmm, I'm having for some drum mags and Frag-12 rounds for the AA-12. Also, a Blaser R93 LRS2 wouldn't go amiss. Probably not a military weapon, but neither is the WA2000 or the Winchester 1887. *Cough* MW2 *Cough* Also hope they bring back the M93R but fix the magazines to give it 30 rounds. And hopefully they throw in the PSG-1, like in BO, but make it look decent (Not sure about you guys, but to me the gun looked disgusting in BO). That's pretty much my wishlist, I guess. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:08, 17 June 2011
::Argle bargle there is no such thing as an M93R Beretta does not use M for model prefix etc etc [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thanks for the correction, Tim. I'm not amazing with guns, but I hope to improve. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:24, 17 June 2011
::Muh the AA-12, sure it looks cool but it can never, ever be balanced for inclusion in a video game. Also I think the PSG-1 in Black Ops was hot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
All I need to be happy is a HUGE selection of pistols, not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs, AA12, etc, and (gonna get a lot of heat for this) NO QUICKSCOPING. IMHO snipers should be used as snipers, and running around close-quarters with a sniper is simply a one shot one kill semi auto rifle. Pistols I would love to see in the game even though half of them have a guaranteed 0% chance- Walther P99, SIG-Sauer P226/P228/P229, HK P30 or HK45, Beretta Cougar or more realistically the Px4 Storm, S&W M&P, Para Ordnance P14 45 Limited (this would be the best pistol in the game, as I would leave out the Desert Eagle), and to round it all out a good ole Smith & Wesson Model 686 with Pachmayr Grips. I am also glad that the FN Five-seveN is in it, I just wish they gave it a proper two-handed grip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:09, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::About the PSG-1, ALL the weapons looked terrible in Black Ops. JazzBlackBelt, I'd be worried if you took heat for not wanting quickscoping on this website, that would seriously worry me :/ And, yeah, pretty much what you said. As for balancing an AA-12, no, it can't be done, everyone go watch FPSRussia's AA-12 video, especially when he one-hands it; you can't balance that. They just made the pellets disappear after (literally!) 10 feet in MW2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:04, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::'not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs' Haha, as a regular LMG user this makes me sad :( I don't think LMGs are 'noob guns' if employed properly, they are fairly essential in defensive roles if playing gametypes like domination in which points NEED to be effectively locked down. However, I will concede that the majority of players who DO choose LMGs do so in order to hold the trigger down and hope 2-3 of their 100 round belts hit, which is just not on. As for quickscoping, I can't stand it. I feel it's cheap and 95% down to aim assist (though obviously not on PC). --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:29, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::I'm so ''sick'' of the term N00B, ugh. I'm not going to give my "wish list" cause IW is gonna do what "they" want and not listen to "us", I stopped playing COD games at WM2. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::75% of the LMG users use them improperly, like running around not really aiming. I still get annoyed when they kill me (I get annoyed at pretty much everything when it kills me) but if they were actually using it properly it makes me feel a little bit better. As I play on PC there are still annoying players that play outrageously, but on PC virtually nobody uses the mic (on CoD anyway) so I don't have to listen to them talk!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:25, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::I'm the same, though I think getting annoyed is part of the fun. It must be, otherwise we wouldn't keep playing. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::Nah, getting annoyed is never part of the fun, the game is good enough that we can clinch our teeth from the few annoying things and still enjoy the game. ;) (At least in MW1 for me anyway.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::I've never been that keen on CoD4, definitely not on PC anyway. The maps are far too small for the amount of players each server has :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:33, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Love COD4 on the PC, I love the 24 to 50 players on those "small" maps, 50 players makes it a true war! I prefer playing on Hard Core mode, just love it, no HUD, 1 or 2 bullets to kill someone, that's the way all the COD games '''should''' be by default. :) Never played WM2 or BO, they're too silly and Hollywood. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:22, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::::COD4 is by far the best CoD in my opinion. I play on PC, but I hate when there are too many players on a map. I aim for servers with about 4-15 players. Likewise, I love the big maps on BC2, but only when there are enough players.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:53, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Aside from seconding the inclusion of a bigger variety of combat pistols (note that by "combat pistols", I don't mean Desert Eagles, S&W 500s, and the like), the only weapon I'd like to see is a Mark 12 SPR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:48, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be for more Shotguns and to have them placed not ONLY as secondaries, but Primaries too. For example, I'd love to have the semi-auto M1014 or the 1887 as a primary but have a smaller sawn off shotgun or a compact pump action as a secondary, like a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser. MW2 with it's secondary shotguns was a bit of disappointment with me. I'd love to see more real life mainstream shotguns instead of the damn SPAS-12, it's overused for god sake, just start adding the 870 or the Mossberg, I wouldn't even mind if it had all the "Tacticool" crap on, as long as it was either the Mossberg or 870 underneath it all. But overall, more pistols in general, maybe a sniper rifle with only a single shot fire capability, a G3 Rifle from COD4 and maybe some really old weapons, like a Bolt Action Mosin Nagant or a Lee Enfield Rifle. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:36, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:How about NO shotguns as secondaries? IMO primaries should be the rifle/shotgun and secondaries should be pistols. Two shotguns? A little bit overkill and unfair.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:58, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I don't know, there is something crazy fun about running around with a M4 and the semi-atuo M1014. Unrealistic, and ridiculous? Maybe, but can't deny that its fun. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:02, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be that we could choose our equipment before the missions. There are some, I suppose where that would be unrealistic such as the 'No Russian' from MW2, but I think it would give everyone a bit more personal or in depth experience if they could choose their kit. I love the idea that we could get the flip up magnifier for an EOTech sight, but in general I prefer how much less of the screen is taken up by the red dot sight from MW1+2. I don't know enough about programming to understand if this would be impossible, but right now I have a bit of a crush on the Bushmaster ACR and would love to play levels with that, and in a few months when I'm having another of my HK 41X kicks play the game again with that rifle. Living in the UK my PC is the closest I will get to these guns, and I think everyone would have more fun if they could personalise their kit rather than have it chosen arbitrarily by IW/Activision who, I doubt, could not come up with one reason, good or bad, for giving you the equipment that they do. One specific request Sig Sauer p226 in .357 sig, they won't do it but you have to have dreams. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:00, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

A Weapon Loadout wouldn't be too hard. Medal of Honor: Airborne did the same thing. Maybe, completing missions, unlocking achievements/trophies (and a separate means on PC and Wii), unlocks new weapons to choose. - [[User:1morey]] June 20, 2011 8:50 PM (EST)

Two main things I'm hoping for: First, I want my F2000 back, but I want IW to get the unique optics right -- the EGLM sight on the real F2000 is magnified, so in-game, it should be the ACOG scope that looks like the EGLM, not the Red Dot. Second, I want a Springfield Armory XD or XD(m) pistol, preferably in .45 caliber; hell, I'd settle for the Croatian HS2000 that the XD is based on. I have a few other wishes (XM500 instead of M82/M107), but those two are the only ones that really have any chance of coming true. - [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:13, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

When will CoD learn? i love CoD but its seriously going down hill from CoD4. they had nice, popular NORMAL weapons in CoD4. M4A1, AK, M16, 1911, M9. now their bringing in stuff that knowone has ever heard of. is it too much to ask for a normal Glock? maybe a 17 or 21 in place of the USP. maybe use some pistols actually being used by actual SF Operators like the Glock, Sig, 1911, Springfield XD. and what is up with the Russians carrying FAMAS's. just looking for a call of duty that had the same quality and standards as COD4.. anyone with me on this? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:59, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:What? The USP is WAY more "normal" that the XD [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

i'd give it a few years, its been tried to replace the M9 (as did the hK45), its employed by a few police forces, im sure its being used by SF. and PS im pretty sure that most people would hand in the USP for the newer more ergonomic hK45, or the P30(same thing but in 9x19/.40S&W) [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 21:07, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74u ==

Shouldn't the section for the aks74u on the page be titled "AKS-74u" and not AK-74u with quotations? IMO it's the same as calling a Glock 17 converted to full auto a fake Glock 18. I don't believe in the "call it what the game calls it" method because that is incorrect. I think we should definitely mention that the game incorrectly names it in the description, but the title should be the actual gun it is modeled after.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:47, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:It uses that title because the weapon is actually a replica of the JG "AK Beta-F" Airsoft gun, not an AKS-74u; it's a mess of different AK variant bits and pieces (mostly AK-47) that's shaped a bit like an AKS-74u but certainly isn't one. Hence it's a quote-unquote AK-74u. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:23, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just as Evil Tim said, it's only similar to the 74u in name, it's a bunch of different AKs, and it's not even a 74, it's a 47 anyway. Someone could copy-paste the description from the COD4 page. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:43, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

::Then shouldn't it be titled the model of the airsoft gun? All other pages I have seen that use airsoft guns as stand ins for real guns have the gun(s) it is modeled after and in parenthesis the airsoft gun. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up as I'm not much of an AK expert.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:25, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::It's not exactly the same as the Airsoft gun either, though. On a movie page where the gun in question was being used to play a real one, yes, you'd use the name, but here it's a fictional gun ''based'' on an Airsoft gun, so you just have to go with what they call it in quotes. That's how it's normally done for Frankenguns and fictional custom weapons in games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:Well, technically the only difference is the bakelite mags, but "AK-74u" looks WAY better than "AK Beta-F". [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:19, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::There's some minor differences in the layout of the gas block and front grip (check the CoD4 page images) and I'd agree it looks better to call it by the game name in quotes; it also makes it easier for someone looking for an ID of the weapon to actually find it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::The gas block and grip just look like fail modelling, but they are different ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:20, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

Thanks for all the replies, really cleared that up for me. As I said before, I am NOT in any way an AK expert. I had read that the one in COD4 it was modeled after an airsoft gun, and assumed the airsoft gun was modeled after the actual gun, not random bits. To avoid making other people confused I will update the description with a modified version of the COD4 one.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah I know what you mean by not an AK expert, it took me forever to be able to tell what one was just by looking at it for a sec, and there's still a lot that I come across I hadn't heard of. Same with revolvers, even now, they still all look the same to me lol. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:29, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Other than a few Smith & Wessons, don't ask me ANYTHING about revolvers. But hey, that's what this site is for- educating people about firearms.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:56, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:Lol, well said :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:58, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

It is correct that this gun is not an aks 74u and that the term ak 74u "doesn't exist." However, I don't know where the author of the main page got the information that this gun "doesn't exist." It's called an SBR (short barreled rifle) you can look it up if you don't believe me, just type in: short barrel rifle ak. Also, I know for a fact that you can fit an aks 74u type muzzle brake on the rifle. Most, if not all ak type muzzle brakes are compatible with each other. Just sayin'. --[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 16:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I googled, and there's no weapon listed called an "AK-74u" on the first page. If you can find a fullauto AKM-pattern weapon that looks like the one in the game and is called the AK-74u ''by the manufacturer'', then feel free to add it to the page, but as far as anyone can tell it's an "AK Beta F" Airsoft gun. This would hardly be the first mistake CoD has made regarding weapons, CoD1 had eight and ten-man weapons with a one-man crew and MP44s at Stalingrad in 1942-43. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm sorry for the poor communication, the gun is call a "Short Barrel Rifle." Ak 74u is just a nickname of AKS 74u. Look up "Short Barrel Rifle ak" on google. You are correct in saying that the Ak 74u isn't a "real weapon."--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:43, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:SBR is a legal classification of weapons (shoulder-fired rifled guns with barrels 16 inches or shorter) which require a special tax stamp and registration, it's not a specific gun. It's been applied to handguns with shoulder stocks before. What you're finding with that google search is weapons which fit that legal definition. Bear in mind we ''don't'' use legal definitions here, because legally, for example, there's no such thing as a fully automatic shotgun (it's a "machine gun"). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:49, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Regardless of what you say it's classified as, the weapon exists regardless of technical terms. I was merely proving the weapon existed. Even if it is heavily modified.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:55, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Um, you're looking at dozens of different short-barrel AKM-pattern weapons with that search, the only thing they have in common is requiring an SBR stamp. It doesn't really change that ''this'' AK isn't a real gun, because it's an Airsoft gun based on piecemeal bits of the AK47 and AKS-74U. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:01, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, I don't want to debate the issue with you here, I am aware that you are correct about the SBR title and its classification. However, If you look at the weapon posted, you will realize that it is merely an AKM with a shortened barrel, the pictures I found proves that this customization exists. You're going by weapon title whereas I'm going by the weapon itself. A weapon like that could, in theory, exist. With full auto capability and everything. But do what you will, It doesn't bother me at all, However, I think you can agree that this fictional weapon is at least based off a real firearm.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:09, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

The only Aks 74u piece you're talking about is the muzzle brake.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:12, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and the sight, but dude, I don't want to be that guy, I just want to show that this gun could be real, after all, the gun in-game doesn't show any manufacturer or anything, it's just a customized AKM.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:15, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about the fact that the configuration could ''theoretically'' be made into a real gun, though. We know of an ''actual'' Airsoft gun which is mass-produced right now and easily available to be used as a reference, which is all but identical to what is shown in the game. This means it's based on a fake weapon. Whether you could make an actual weapon based on ''it'' doesn't really change that. We say the same of handheld miniguns in videogames which have the "chainsaw grip" from T2 but retain the half-circle attachment point for the ''Predator'' M60 grip: you could make a minigun with a useless half-circle attachment, but that doesn't change that the useless half-circle comes from the Airsoft version we have pictured on the M134 page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:23, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

By all means do whatever you want, you know more about this site than I do, and frankly, I like this site and don't want to get into an argument on it. Either way is fine by me. And I'll leave it as a agree to disagree kind of thing regarding its actual existence. There's not enough evidence to say it does or doesn't exist. So I apologize for my previous remark. I leave it at a possibilty.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:30, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Call of Duty XP 2011 ==

I doubt it, but was just wondering if anyone is going to this? I'm curious if they got all the right guns in the "Call of Duty Armory", which apparently has the guns from CoD in it. You also get the chance to play MW3 for the first time, and a little beforehand reporting never hurt anyone ;).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:00, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:If I lived in the States/had the money to afford a flight to LA I probably would have gone. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot from FourZeroTwo/PKP Pecheneg spotted? ==

[http://a.yfrog.com/img736/504/nceia.jpg]

Looks like the Juggernaut soldier is using a PKP Pecheneg (note the distinctive carry handle on the top of the barrel).
There are some other guns lying around, possible an M14 on the left? Looks like a .308 mag to me....

(also is there a way to post an image directly in a discussion?)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:16, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Anyone else notice the annoyingly obvious Remington and EOTech trademarks? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:03, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah I don't like the trades at all, though I doubt I will use the ACR all that much. Good job on the PKP spot Ghost, think you're on the money there. Have wanted the PKP for a while. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:50, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's not like guns have rollmarks in real life, right?-protoAuthor 21:10, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, I don't mind the trades. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:46, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Each to their own, but they are massive so it feels a little like (very obscure) product placement --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:51, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, I'll take overt sponsorship over price rises. You have to remember that games have gone from something that could be made by half a dozen people in six months to something that takes 150-2,000 (GTAIV) people years and costs millions of dollars, and in real terms games now cost less than they did in those days. For example, the original ''Turok'' adjusted for inflation cost over $100 when the N64 first came out. They've got to get more money from somewhere, and you should be glad that somewhere isn't you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::I think it's brilliant. The MW series has made ACOG and EOTech house-hold names to an entire generation of potential customers. How many twelve year olds knew what an ACOG was pre-MW? Or what a Remington ACR was, or FN SCAR? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:00, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::But can they tell the difference between a Remington ACR and a Magpul Masada? But seriously, I don't mind the trades that much. Sure, they are gigantic and wrongly placed, but will you honestly be focused on that while playing?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:14, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::I suppose not, no. You might struggle to play the game if constantly focusing on your gun's trades. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:17, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Yeah, you guys are right, the product placement isn't too bad, it's just the oversized obviousness that bothers me. Oh, and I'm not familiar with the new EOTech in this game, but isn't the EOTech trade where the buttons should be? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Not necessarily, I believe the model depicted there is the EXPS2, which has the buttons on the left-hand side (http://www.copquest.com/75-8030.jpg) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:18, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Oh okay, it doesn't bother me nearly as much now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:13, 14 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::If you guys have 3 minutes to spare, here's a youtube vid of the EXPS2, which indeed does have the EOTech trade on the back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpw0IigxQM Plus, at the 1:00 minute mark he brings out a magnifier that has the same flip to side capability as we saw in some video for MW3, I don't remember which.
::Yeah, it is a PKP Pecheneg, Confirmed. - [[User:ReikoKotobuki|ReikoKotobuki]]

== ??????? ==
Why haven't all the guns from the Walther P99 to the Heckler & Koch M320 (above) been applied to the main page? Every image containing the guns have been confirmed as official by Robert Bowling.
:They were on Kotaku, which is not a reliable source, and last I heard they said "some of the information released is accurate, some not". If they have been confirmed elsewhere, please post a link.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:54, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

This isn't rocket science. Those pictures were leaked before the gameplay videos were. Look at the M-4 from the video, then from the Kotaku Link. They're the exact same, and the MP5 as well. They're legit, I'm convinced.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 17:04, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:This website operates based on CONFIRMED information. However likely it may be that they are legit (I'm convinced too) we have to wait for them to be in an official gameplay video.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yes, plus, as the template at the top of the age says, all images must be from ''official trailers''. The pics here are still from a leak, even if some of them have been confirmed. I'd say the only time we should use leaked pics is ''after'' the release if they include weapons that never made the final cut (eg the minigun in the leaked STALKER alpha), but never before. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:18, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, fair enough. Sounds good to me.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:24, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Survival Mode Trailer ==

Look HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDQ2Ow-VfI&feature=player_embedded. New weapon spots include...(please identify) at 0:11, (please identify...maybe Scar-H) at 0:14, buy screen confirms USAS-12 and M60E4 at 0:40, G36 at 0:42, ?auto-grenade launcher? (mk.19???) at 0:48, new telescopic lens attachment at 1:25, riot shield at 1:38, FMG-9 and bounding landmine (unknown type) at 2:04. Please update main page accordingly =D --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:24, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

You beat me to it, was just in the middle of writing a post about this! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:30, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Forgot to mention, at 0:42, ACR using 6.8mm ammo --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also 0:52, it IS a mk.19 automatic grenade launcher!!!! --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:34, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think the weapon at 0:11 might be another AR platform weapon, they show more of it at 0:15. I'm thinking LWRC's M6A4 but they're not an exact match. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:: It's the same M4 seen in the leaks and the E3 footage.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Nah that's shown at 0:17, is definitely a different gun. Much longer than the M4, also the rail system, charging handle and rear sight differ. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:25, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Dammit, I was hoping they wouldn't bring back that juggernaut soldier. Also, seeing what they did to that poor 1887 made me cry. One good thing though, deploying a riot shield squad could be interesting.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:56, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, weren't riot shields also available in MW2? I remember seeing them in MW2 videos. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:37, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::Indeed they were introduced in MW2, but only the AI could use a sidearm in tandem with the shield. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:15, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Aww. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also, here's the list of weapons up for purchase during the trailer: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110809195831/callofduty/images/8/8f/USAS_12_Survival_Mode.png Clicky!] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:02, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The landmine device at the end of the video is an IMS landmine. Information here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk. I don't know if we post about that kind of thing, but claymores are listed on the main website. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:36, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

== Colt CM901 ==
[[Image:UK1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UK2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Anyone know what this is? I think it's LWRC's M6A4 but I'm not certain, definitely isn't either of the other AR platform weapon's we've seen so far though

Well, since Infinity Ward loves to put Future Weapons stuff in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the LWRC M6A4 made an appearance as a mag-fed LMG, Black Ops-style. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:28, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ That's what I was thinking, the reload animation looks quite slow for an assault rifle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yet, once again, they have put the rear iron sight backwards :P --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:57, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::Good job whoever identified this as a Colt CM901! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:05, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, that iron sight isn't on backwards. That's the standard BIS for M4's in the Army. Every M4 in our Brigade has that flip up sight. The only thing wrong with it is that it's supposed to be a the standard peep hole, not the night sight that you see on the M16/M4 carrying handles. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 09:51, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::: For reference, I believe [http://www.aresarmor.com/install/media/ecom/prodlg/matechbuis.jpg this] either is or is a commercial copy of the sight he's on about. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:33, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::Yes sir that would be it [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 12:27, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP5K!! ==

Someone throw in the MP5K to confirmed weapons, it can be seen with a holographic in the vid, after the player tosses a purple smoke grenade for AC-130 fire at 1:08 in the newest trailer! :D Dunno WHY they add it in with the regular MP5, but it's confirmed in the bottom right hand corner. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:On it. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:38, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::The strange thing is that the difference is not even noticeable as the guy holds the MP5K close to his body and the buttstock (the buttplate on the MP5K) isn't visible. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:46, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I think it has a buttstock attached, as far as I can tell. I get the feeling this is the only MP5 variant in the game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::::What the about the MP5A2? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:00, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I thought they both looked very similar (buttstock, rails etc) so that's why I assumed they might both be one and the same, but if they're both confirmed as separate weapons then fair enough. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:07, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::They could have misnamed the MP5A2 an MP5K. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:12, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I also think this might be the only MP5 in the game, and if it is the MP5k OR it is a MP5A2 misnamed, I'm going to get angry. The MP5k is a nice gun, but I want to be able to use a full size MP5 again, like the good ole days. Ahh, how I miss COD4...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:17, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::True to that. Well I'm still playing COD4, huaha! >:D I just played Black Ops only for a little while, I completed SP, played Zombies and MP for a couple of hours until I quit due to the frustrating and the annoying, and went back to playing COD4. XD Oh, and I never even touched the abomination that is called MW2. D:< - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I played Black Ops for a while, enjoyed, then played COD4 again and realized how bad BO was. Recently I broke down and bought MW2 because Steam had it half off, and having extremely low expectations for it, I found it wasn't terrible, but just bad. I still play the MP, but I have no idea why.
We saw the teaser trailer and it is the full size MP5. I'd be damn if they kept the MP5K. Seriously man. In Black Ops they had the right idea of no mini Uzi and gave us a full Uzi, I want me full size MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:Hehe. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
::Seriously though, I don't know why they put the smaller variants of everything. MP5k, Mini-Uzi, and small guns in particular like the sawed off shotgun and stuff. Don't even get me started about the excess rails, which appears to have continued over into MW3. 0.o--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:37, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I quite like the MP5K, but for the most part I prefer the full size variants of the weapons they include. As for rails, everybody knows the more rails you have on your gun, the better your gaming experience will be. *Trollface* --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:20, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
::: Needs more Tacticool. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:31, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
:::^ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:58, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

== M60E4 could be M60E3 ==

After looking closely again at the trailer, I have noticed that the picture of the M60E4 is actually the M60E3 from [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Of course we haven't seen MW3's M60 in action yet, but once again, could be another mistake, or just an early development place holder... Here are the pictures for comparison:
* Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-18-50.jpg
* Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:COD4M60E4.jpg

What do you think? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:54, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think they images they're using atm are largely just placeholders until final ones are chosen, so the final in-game model may end up being the E4 variant. Guess we'll have to wait till footage from CoD XP comes out to see for ourselves. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:09, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:: The fact the MW2 ACR image is being used supports that. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:45, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== FAD assault rifle ==

Whereabouts in the spec-ops trailer is the FAD? Someone updated the main page but no pics. Here's a picture of the FAD for anyone who hasn't seen it, looks horrific [http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5347/fad3vv2.jpg] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:Just watched the trailer and am 99% there was no FAD in it. Also, the MP5K is actually a railed MP5A2, and can be seen from the side on the ground when the first juggernaut fast ropes in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:50, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::I thought so. :) And yeah the FAD is pretty horrific looking. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:29, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::OMG that gun looks bleh...i'd rather see the F2000 or TAR-21 again, those are some sexy bullpup rifles. But this time please with correct grenadelauncher placement.--[[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:29, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
: Chrausis, the FAD isn't in the trailer, but can be seen on Sledgehammer's site in image 2 as seen here [http://sledgehammergames.com/]. And Commando, you may be right, but Robert Bowling confirmed on Twitter both versions of the MP5 will be included. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 02:38, 13 August 2011
::Hmm... this could prove interesting... if they pull it off right there could be pros/cons to each version, i.e. MP5k lets you run a little faster but poorer accuracy and MP5A2 gives you better accuracy but a little slower. Of course, they could just be making the MP5k a secondary, which would make me pretty mad.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:10, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::It's kinda hard for MW3's MP5K to be a secondary with that A2 stock. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::::That was the MP5A2 we saw, just with rails.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:24, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::But the HUD said "MP5K Holographic". :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:15, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::1of 2 things is happening. 1) IW has REALLY screwed up this time and put an A2 stock on a MP5k or 2) the HUD is just a placeholder from MW2 and will be updated. I can't tell if the handguard is full length or not from that clip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:42, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I think there going with the Machine Pistol Secondaries again, perhaps the MP5K is in the Machine Pistol Slot now, makes sense, considering it's smaller profile and IW's reputation, given that they had placed similar weapons in the catergory such as the MP9 and PP-2000. Might have a smaller magazine capacity or trade in something else over the full size version like firepower or accuracy. I know that one theory of mine, is that the A2 version may function similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung 40mm Grenade Launcher. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:26, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::The GSN-19 is a '''30mm''' grenade launcher dude. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:16, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I was using that as the US equivalent, the only other '''30mm''' Grenade Launcher I see in use by US Forces would be the 37mm and that's usually designated to Police Riot situations and signal purposes, not exactly a great combat multiplier on a Sub-Machine gun. And did I mention the GSN-19 anywhere in that description or saying that it was '''30mm'''? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 01:23, 19 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::You said "Similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung '''40mm Grenade Launcher'''" <-(referring to the '''30mm''' GSN-19 that mounts to the AKS-74U). Just making a correction. Anyway I see a 40mm grenade launcher being mounted on a MP5 kinda silly, Half-Life anyone?

== Purchase Weapons like Black Ops? ==

Was just curious after watching the Survival Mode trailer, anyone else think that IW maybe following Treyarch's example and giving all their guns, equipment and killstreaks price tags in the Multiplayer Armory instead of unlocking them with experience and further ranks? I personally enjoy the idea, as in Black Op's it worked quite well, I could buy what I want and didn't need to work too much in order to get it. It was always in reach. What do you alot think about this? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:31, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:I would prefer the money system. as you noticed, the upgrades where always in reach and it wasnt necessairi to perform a gazillion kills simply to get that one feature unlocked, that i like. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:23, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

:Robert Bowling has confirmed that there'll be no in-game currency (other than in survival mode) but there will be a whole new system in which weapons are unlocked. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:52, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== One handed grip ==

I know its not supposed to be a sim, but a one handed grip on the pistols is going to get old quick [[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:24, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:I agree fully.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:31, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
::Be thankful it's just a one-handed grip and not a sideways 'gangsta' style grip. Though now I've said that... --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
::And they wouldn't even have the shell casings eject into the player's face.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:33, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
::Would make you flinch if you were playing in 3D. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:08, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
On a lighter note, they are supposed to be bringing back a fully sized MP-5[[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:34, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:Old news pal. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

== Infinity ward when will you ever learn ==

that russians don't use 9mm european smgs in frontline combat i throught Russians used heavy calber Russian weapons.--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

And I hate the EBR why do they have it in there!

know what I hate in COD games is that the player automatically thinks that they know every gun just by playing cOD.But I still like cod enough to play it--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:They don't really care about the minor details. They just want to create a fun game, rather than to do a research about a weapon and recreate it in the game itself. I myself, also getting annoyed of the unrealistically bull**** stuff that the developers put in CoD, especially CoD:BO where 90% of the weapons are anachronistic. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:14, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

We have WAAAAYYY passed the realistic mark with CoD. CoD is basically a playable action movie. If you want realistic, play Battlefield. Depending on how they present multiplayer, I play it because it is fun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, yeah, the CODs since 4 aren't so bad if you just think of them as action movies. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:01, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

did anyone actually pay attention of what i wrote?- nazi fishwife

:You basically went for the rather tiresome 'an unrealistic game scored better in reviews than a realistic game, so people must prefer unrealistic games' line. This is a fallacious argument unless you can prove ''Modern Warfare 2'' scored more highly ''because'' it was unrealistic and that it would have scored less if the weapon choice had at least attempted to make sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

how is it a fallacious argument, action packed less realistic games are statistically better than realistic, slow and boring games i had proof i added all of the scores modern warfare 2 and all of the scores with operation flashpoint 2: dragon rising on the page but it got deleted because it wasn't set out in the acceptible fashion - nazi fishwife

:Popular =/= Good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:: I love the EBR and its still in service. It's not in alot of games/movies so why do you hate it? - Joey1666

You're asking when Infinity Ward will learn? They did, and a majority of them quite the company. What's left of IW is nothing compared to who they used to be [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:09, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I went kinda over board,What I ment about the EBR is not the gun I hate,Its the damage in-game what I hate.Other then that I love the EBR.An about the Russians I was just making a point like it making them look like a terroist army when they are not.Like they could be using a little more Russian weaponry.Right (makarovs men are the terroist if you didn't know),Anyways COD is still my favorite game series.--v 15:07, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[user:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]
----

== Confirmed guns still on Talk page ==

The following guns have been confirmed (either by official trailers or by live gameplay videos), and have already been added to the main page; therefore, they can be removed from the "unconfirmed" list on the Talk page (and IMHO, removing them will help prevent any confusion):
*FN Five-seveN
*Magpul FMG-9
*Colt M4A1
*Customized AK-47
*Remington ACR
*Heckler & Koch G36C
*Winchester Model 1887
*AA-12

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-08-25T01:59:45Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Weapons Wishlist */

==Moved from main page==

These are the weapons from the leaked info which are of dubious authenticity and need confirming. Only officially confirmed weapons on the main page from now on.

''Information leaked to the website Kotaku.com included screenshots claimed to be of some of the weapon models for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3. Most weapons appear to have multiple configurations and attachments, however at present the authenticity of these shots has not been confirmed.''

=== Walther P99 ===

[[Image:WaltherP99 twotoneA.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Walther P99 with silver slide - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Walter_p99_01.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:MW3-P99-Light.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|P99 with pistol light.]]

=== MP-412 REX ===
As in the games Battlefield and Red Steel, there is an appearance of the Russian .357 Magnum revolver, the MP-412 REX. The MP-412 REX was a double action revolver with a break open frame and automatic ejector. It was developed for commercial Export by Izhevsk Mechanical Plant but never went into full production due to lack of interest. Yet another firearm that was never actually sold anywhere (except for a few prototypes in Europe) that appears in a Video Game.

[[Image:Mp-412-1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MP-412 REX - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:Mp412_pistol.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

=== SIG-Sauer P226 ===
An SIG-Sauer P226 pistol is seen holstered to an SAS operative's vest. This is accurate, as it is used by the British SAS in real life.

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Sas lmg.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The pistol is holstered to the center of the vest.]]

=== Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion ===
The [[Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion]] is a weapon also seen in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Because of its black pistol grip, it looks like the Yugoslavian made Skorpion.

[[Image:CZ_Vz.61.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Skorpion Sa. Vz.61 with 20 round magazine - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Yugoslav_Model_61_Skorpion.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Yugoslavian made Model 61(i) Skorpion distinguishable by it's black pistol grip - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Skorpion screenshot layout 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Skorpion model.]]

=== HK MP5A2N ===
The Standard MP5 returns from [[Call of Duty 4]] with an A2/A4-style stock, instead of the A3/A5 Collapsible stock. The forearm has also been replaced with a Knights Armament Rail Forearm.

[[Image:Mp5 new2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[MP5A2]] model.]]

=== FN SCAR-L ===
The [[FN SCAR-L]] is a new weapon shown in the screenshots. While it was only shown used by a soldier on the multiplayer background of [[Modern Warfare 2]] and wasn't usable, the version shown is a player model, and would probably take the place of the SCAR-H. The model has black scheme, flip-up iron sights and 5.56x45mm NATO Magpul. Note that the rear sight, although still cropped, is oriented correctly, while [[Modern Warfare 2]]'s SCAR-H rear sight was placed backwards.

[[Image:FN_SCAR-L_(Standard).jpg|thumb|none|450px|Third-Generation [[FN SCAR-L]] - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:Scar light 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The SCAR-L model]]

=== FN FAL ===
The [[FN FAL]] is a weapon also seen in [[Modern Warfare 2]]. This is the same model, featuring combination of the [[FN FAL]] and the [[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine]].

[[Image:FN_FAL_50_00.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN FAL]] 50.00 - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]
[[Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine]] - 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:Novinka169 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[FN FAL]] is in the hands of the character in the top middle frame and in the hands of the characters in the bottom right two frames.]]

=== Short Barreled AK Variant ===
Seen above in the top row, second from the right and the first and second from left frames on the bottom row. Likely a successor to the AKS-74U "SMG" in Call of Duty 4 and Modern Warfare 2, but, nevertheless it's still an assault rifle.

[[Image:Novinka169 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Remington Semi-Automatic Sniper System ===

[[Image:Remington rsass.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ===
The [[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle|Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle]] is one of the weapons seen in the screenshots. This version is the Mod 0 version rather than the Mod 1 version in [[Modern Warfare 2]] as evidenced by the SAGE collapsible stock, rather than the previous AR buffer tube type stock with Magpul CTR/MOE stock.

[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] - 7.62x51 NATO, with a Harris bipod and vertical RIS foregrip.]]
[[Image:M14ebr.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] model.]]

=== Barret M107 ===

[[Image:Berrett M107.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Barrett M107 long range sniper rifle - .50 BMG. Noteworthy is the holes in the lower part of the buttstock and the rail that runs along the top spine of the rifle.]]
[[Image:Barrett m82.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Armsel Striker ===

[[Image:SWD-StreetSweeper.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Striker iw5.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
=== Kel-Tec KSG ===

[[File:Kel-Tec KSG Shotgun Oleg Volk 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:Ksg.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Heckler & Koch M320 ===
The [[Heckler & Koch M320]] grenade launcher is a new weapon (or more correctly, attachment) shown in the screenshots. This could be a replacement for the [[M203 grenade launcher]] as used in both previous installments, but nothing is confirmed at this time.

[[Image:XM320_stock_extended.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Heckler & Koch M320]] - 40mm, with optional telescoping stock.]]
[[Image:M320 grenade launcherh.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[Heckler & Koch M320#M320|M320]] model, attached to an [[M4A1]] carbine with XPS Holographic sight and suppressor.]]

==Discussion==

Oh God, another Call of Duty. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:05, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

AK74su-type(AKS-74u)weapon in screenshot as well as FN FAL similar to the one in Modern Warfare 2.

Visible in this screenshot

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/prague_resistance_rioter_civ_02.jpg

Also, there's some type of Sig Sauer pistol in this screenshot on the chest

http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/sas_lmg.jpg

Looks like the M18 Smoke Grenade returns. -[[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:07 AM (EST)

I see a P90 lying on the floor in the premiere trailer, in what appears to be a subway station. Appears to follow the MW2 Design, with the iron sights instead of a built in red dot. -[[User:Timaman]] May 24, 2011 22:09 PM GMT+0

http://timaman.deviantart.com/art/Possible-P90-in-Mw3-210170147

I noticed what appears to be a holstered Colt 1911 on the UMP wielding SAS members right leg, you can see it just above where the picture finishes, at the bottom. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:08, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

:I saw that too, hopefully the MW1 1911 comes back, it better, but it also looks like it could be a P226 with wierd lighting. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

I hope they put an ejection port on the M4 this time.

== Title ==

This page should be moved to "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" since that is the official title. Don't let the "Modern Warfare 2" page confuse you, that's fucked up also. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:49, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I also think that the title should be the official title, so I already changed it. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:40, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

==Issues==

We have no confirmation from anyone that any of these images are legit. Should this page even exist? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't see any evidence proving to the contrary either. We'll live, if it's not legit, then it'll be taken off. Seems like an insanely elaborate hoax to basically render half of a game's weapon arsenal and create a ton of concept art, in addition to the images of the NPC skins and such. You could be right, but, in all likelihood... this is a leak of legitimate information.

If it is legit though, how do we know it's final? This could be a deliberate leak of outdated info and models. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:11, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

Even if it isn't final, it's still worthwhile to put in. The G3 was in a trailer for Modern Warfare 2, and the last time I checked, it was still on the imfdb page.

There is a update to this Modern Warfare 3 leak. Robert Bowling of Infinity Ward tweeted this: "A lot of hype & a lot of leaked info on #MW3, some still accurate, some not. To avoid spoiling the experience, I'd wait for the real reveal." So I'm guessing the leak IS legitimate [[User:SeanWolf]]

Well, as much as I think Bowling is a self-absorbed hipster, this is good. I assume the "tangible" pics and stuff like that are more concrete than some of the story details and map names "Plaza 2", was probably changed/cut. Either way, good for identifying stuff.

Oh god, the KSG. Here's hoping they use both of that weapon's mag tubes instead of restricting you to only one of them --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 23:02, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I am a huge fan of the KSG. Yeah, I really agree with you there. Though, in the previous Modern Warfares, they've limited the M1014 to the capacity of a KAC Masterkey for balancing purposes. Wouldn't get my hopes up.

:My biggest fear with the KSG is how IW or whoever is really making it will make the KSG act in-game. My thought process tells me "Somehow, I think their gonna make it fire like a double barrelled shotgun, two shots at the same time". Given IW's creditability and COD's inaccuracy with real world weapons in game, this to me seems like a likely possibility. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:38, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, but, would it really be that noticeable? I mean, what would be the difference over firing one round? It's still a pump-action, so regardless, you'd still have to rack the pump back. They didn't make the Ranger shotgun or the Olympia fire both rounds at the same time, they're double barreled as well.
:You actually got two firing triggers when you use a single Ranger --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:12, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Which is plausible, because it has two triggers on the real-world model. On the KSG, IF, big IF, they made it fire two rounds at the same time for some reason, they'd probably operate under the assumption that you're switching tubes between each shot. I don't know, just giving IW the benefit of the doubt for now. They don't seem to have messed up with any of their modern shotguns except in the realm of magazine capacity.

I might be the only one, but whats up with that weird aimpoint/ holographic sight combo on the M4? is that even possible?
: Yes, it is. EoTech makes [http://www.eotech-inc.com/product.php?id=50&cat=1 optics] specifically designed to be used in conjunction with their holosights. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:59, 28 May 2011 (CDT)
cool, I never knew that. Thanks

==Winchester Model 1887==
What in the name of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit did they do to that shotgun. *Pukes all over keyboard*. I mean, I love CoD as much as the next person (I just look past the mistakes (Russians with Tavors, and TDI Vectors)), but THAT just looks ridiculous!!! - [[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:09 AM (EST)

I mean, it's the "CoD Universe", IW can make the Russians use whatever weapons they want. It's no different/worse than Special Operations personnel using MP5k airsoft replicas [They did in MW2], or using MG4's for that matter, and ACR's. Call of Duty was never intended to be a military simulator, even less so starting to really become obvious with MW2 [A US Army General firing a revolver on the front lines]. However, on topic, the 1887 never should've been in the game in my opinion. There are plenty of shotguns, and IW seems to just copy and paste things from movies rather than being original. As for the depiction in MW3, at least they made the 1887 unique. Granted, it's silly, but for a game weapon... it's much more fitting to "tacticalize" it.
:Also as far as multiplayer is concerned, the removal of the enlarged loop means that you will no longer be able to flip cock it, therefore no longer able to dual wield... unless IW does it anyway which means that technically the player would be breaking their fingers every time they do a flip cock. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 17:10, 18 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, gonna' have to side with you on that one. IW showers in the over the top, unoriginal, borderline plagiarism from popular movies. There's no logical advantage for them to include the 1887 unless it's able to be dual wielded. But, like you said, they may have tacticalized it to be a "modern lever-action shotgun", whilst taking out the dual wield capability. We'll see.
:I'd rather see them give us a nice lever-action rifle than the 1887 again. Not enough games have them, and it's not like "the army doesn't use them" is a valid excuse in a series where a military firing range has Deagles lying around. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:54, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

I'd rather them just scrap lever actions altogether. Certainly, the argument of "The army doesn't use them" isn't really relevant, perhaps the argument "No army would even consider using it" is more fitting. But when nobody uses an overall design archetype (Lever Action) in a tactical setting, it seems silly to include it as a shotgun or not. In other words, in my opinion, lever actions have no place in Modern Warfare both the game and the concept. 1887 should've never been in MW2, because it set a precedent that it was okay to put absurdly pointless weapons in CoD games.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Several armies not only considered using them but actually did. That's rather more than the number of armies which have ever considered using the WA2000 or Desert Eagle, which last I checked was zero. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:12, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Which armies? Were they in this century? If not then it's irrelevant to the term "Modern". Most, if not all lever-action overall designs were prominent before the turn of the 20th century. No modern military uses lever-actions when they could just be using more modern semi-automatic weapons that operate on various methods (recoil/gas/etc).[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Um, Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1, and there's several modern designs like the Browning BLR. Most sniper rifles in military service are still manual actions (as opposed to marksman rifles, which are the semi-autos), they just tend to be bolt actions rather than lever or pump. Leverguns are just as common in military use as gas-operated rotating bolt pistols, $80,000 semi-auto rifles or off-axis blowback subguns (ie not), and more to the point, the setting of an invaded US means civilian weapons can be included within the setting. For example, you could have a level where you're a Marine who was on leave and only has his hunting rifle and his wits to make his way through enemy lines and assemble with his unit. Or given that such levels usually have a helper NPC, you're the Marine's kid who insisted on coming along to help fight the good fight. For bonus points, reveal halfway through the level that the kid is the Marine's daughter rather than his son; I'd pay good money to watch the forum fallout from that. "Kotick made me play as a GIRL! Now I have COOTIES!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:17, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:You do bring up a valid point, MW3 is based in an invasion US. Theoretically, they could add the civilian weapons for this reason, but CoD has always been a strictly military deal. But then again, MW2 involved an invasion US, and there were no civilian player-characters. Furthermore, "Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1", this game is not in WW1 and warfare/technology has changed quite a lot since then. There is nothing modern about the BLR's design, save for some features that make it easier to use (Moving trigger/detachable magazine), and still... it's not used by -any- military, current or otherwise. Bolt action sniper rifles are just that, bolt action, not lever action, regardless I'm talking about service rifles/shotguns not high end sniper rifles. Lever-action weapons are not common in militaries of this century (21st) by any means. Lever actions should not be included in a modern military setting, year 2000 and beyond. There are no lever actions being used by any current formal military force as far as I'm aware, certainly not the ones we're talking about (NATO countries, Russians). They've got no place in modern warfare because the design has been outclassed by others, hence why they're not used. Even in Khyber pass bootleg weapons from Pakistan/Afghanistan, or South American countries, it'd be a stretch to see them using lever-actions... the design is -that- outdated.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

::Again pointing out that no military has ever used or considered using the Desert Eagle either. Or the SPAS-12. Or the TDI Vector. Or the WA2000. CoD's weapon list has been in la-la land since we had German soldiers with StG-44s at Stalingrad in the first game and hasn't really come back since then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:00, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:For different reasons. No modern military uses lever-actions because they're outdated. Desert Eagle, should never have been in the game, not saying it should. It's not used because it's not practical. TDI Vector, it's not used because it's new and the benefits are negligeble. WA2000, it's a trophy weapon which has a price-tag of a BMW and less than 200 were built, obviously not a choice. SPAS-12, used by various militaries around the world (Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh), in addition to SWAT/SRT teams around the world. The weapons you listed are not used for various reasons, not for being antiquated technology. You can't deny that IW put the 1887 in because it was "badass" in the Terminator movie, that's the only reason. The STG44 thing doesn't bother me, seeing as it was used in WW2, which is the timeframe in which the game was set, though in limited numbers later on in real life. However, the 1887 has no purpose in game or out. The Desert Eagle, has no purpose in real-life but it does serve a role in game (High Damage sidearm with low mag capacity). Thus, the Desert Eagle is tolerable, the 1887 is just pointless. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the section is titled "Winchester Model 1887", not "Weapons that shouldn't be in the game" thus I would focus on this weapon, rather than the others in the game that shouldn't be there in my opinion. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 12:53, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not entirely sure why you're opposed to this, though; we've already got a laundry list of weapons no military would ever dream of using, so one more or less hardly matters. I'm saying I'd rather see a lever-action rifle than the 1887 again, since that would actually be a nice variation from the usual bolts and semi-autos and could be interesting for variation (levers being faster but harder to use while prone). I equally don't see the point of trolling out the antique shotgun again, this time with a stack of silly accessories on it that makes ''Black'' look positively restrained. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:50, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::A lever-action rifle would have been a great idea in Black Ops, but not in the "Modern" Warfare games where they should stick with using the correct "modern" weapons that each country actually uses, plus some other '''sensible''' new age weapons. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:33, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
:My point is that the design incorporating a lever-action, has no place in any modern military setting, at all, shotgun or rifle included. It'd be akin to using a flintlock in a modern warfare video game, it's simply outdated technology on a design level that's no longer used by modern military forces. That is why I'm opposed to it, it's not like the TDI Vector or Desert Eagle not being used (For different reasons, which I explained in depth, none of which includes an outdated design) because they are both modern weapons that incorporate modern designs. Bottom line, if you want lever-actions, play Red Dead Redemption. Granted it's a video game and not a military simulator at that but IW putting in outdated weaponry simply because it was in a movie, when they are supposed to be working with pseudo-real world operators and scenarios, is silly. The tacticalized variant as shown in MW3 is certainly a step in the right direction, if you want a pristine replica of a beautiful antique weapon, again, Call of Duty is not the appropriate place to search for such and nor should it be. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 11:12, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::In what way is it outdated? Modern lever actions fire faster than bolt actions, can use non-tube magazines (even detachable ones) and thus fire pointed bullets, and are of comparable accuracy to bolt actions. Aside from issues with firing while prone (which are hardly impossible to deal with) they're not outdated in any sense of the term, certainly not to the extent a flintlock is. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:30, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the issue of firing when prone is -highly- critical when compared to how modern-day bolt actions are used, mostly/all by snipers who fire from the prone position frequently. They are outdated as service rifles, like I said earlier in comparison to semi-automatic gas/recoil driven weapons. The main revolution of lever action was the rapid-fire aspect and magazine capacity (Compared to single-shot/clip-fed weapons of the era), which have all been outclassed by miles in reference to modern semi-automatic rifles. Like I said,''' agree to disagree''', not going anywhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::No, it's definately an issue of lack of will to do it rather than any technical inferiority. Armies are used to bolt actions in their manual rifles and don't see the need to change to weapons that have ''different'' advantages and disadvantages but don't offer a substantial overall improvement. It's hard enough persuading them to adopt things that ''do'' offer a substantial improvement, after all. Also, I have no idea why you keep bringing up semi-autos, not everything is a marksman rifle. I was never suggesting using a manual action weapon as a replacement for anything other than a ''different'' manual action. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Agreeing to disagree, could refute what you said with evidence/concepts but it's not going to do anything. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==Barrett M107/M82 Error==

It seems IW thinks that there's some sort of bolt/ejection port, being visible on the left side of the receiver of the M107. As far as I know, the left side is flat and the right hand side has the bolt mechanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's like this in MW2 and not in CoD4.

To clarify, it seems that IW has made the M107 receiver open on both sides, rather than just having the bolt handle on the right. Probably should be corrected, but can be lived with. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:57, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

== Gunz ==

Is it just me or anyone else agrees that these guns are f#&king ugly? What did they do to that poor MP5A2? Not to mention the Winchester and the "AK-47". BTW the game will take place around 2012, yet the Russians will still use the "AK-47". Well, it is still better than them using U.S. guns, right? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:26, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

How do you know the game will take place in 2012? If Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare took place in 2011, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is 5 years later (2016), so how MW3, which is a direct sequel to MW2, taking place in 2012? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:39, 14 May 2011 (CDT)
:Sorry, my bad, I thought COD4 was in 2007 since it was releases in that year. I knew that MW2 was 5 years later, thats why I wrote 2012. Anyways, that won't make the difference. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:32, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Again, Call of Duty was never meant to be a military simulator. If you want realism, look at the Battlefield series and ARMA series. Call of Duty has always been a playable action movie, that happens to be based in a real-world (First 1-3, Black Ops, WaW) or fictional (Modern Warfare) war.

Russians have used AK variants since the late 1940's... that's over sixty years of use. What's so outlandish about them using it for another twenty? IW calls it an "AK-47" because that's what people identify as the general AK weapon pattern. It's a video game. How exactly is it better than them using US weapons? Many foreign nations use the AR platform, amongst other weapon systems designed in the United States. Hell, most of the United States' small arms are provided/designed by Fabrique Nationale, a Belgian company. As I said before, it's a "Call of Duty Universe", not an explicitly real world universe, IW has creative license to put whatever weapons in the hands of whatever faction they see fit.

As for the weapons, they look fine to me. Some have been tacticalized, yes, but it makes them unique to the game and in specific cases like the 1887, it makes it more plausible for an almost 130 year old weapon to be included in a Modern setting used by people who have access to better designed shotguns. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I am wondering why we don't see an 870 or a Mossberg in these games? It's weird as well that they would include a really old gun like the 1887 but none of the pump actions. And the SPAS-12 doesn't count because it's been overused in this series to death. I bet for the ACR's reload animation, they are not going to have the model press a button to release the bolt. Most likely they'll just reuse the AK reload animation and have the shooting hand reach over and rack the charging handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:17, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:For the sake of it, I do wish we could have a 870 or a Mossberg in-game, even if it was one of these "Starter" guns. I wouldn't care if it was "Tacticalized" or not, as long as it's there. I could somehow imagine in a perfect world following MW2 as an example, a Remington 870 MCS as a primary shotgun loaded with slugs and a Aimpoint Sight with the Bling Perk while using a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser that was "Tacticalized" as a secondary shotgun loaded with Buckshot. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:43, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Thank God they are bringing back a full size MP5. I am so sick of the MP5K. And what is up with the magazine on the M4? Is it supposed to be a 20 rounder or they messed up the design again? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:19, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:Amen to that! Though somewhere in the back of mind, I sometimes think they're gonna add the MP5K back in as some "other" weapon, maybe if they were to stick to MW2 styling, I could imagine it as a Machine Pistol alongside maybe the PP-2000 and TMP. Also, I can't escape the feeling that IW is gonna try and copy Treyarch in some way by trying to copy Black Op's example with the AK(S)-74U and attach a grenade launcher to it. It would be awesome all the same though. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:55, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well at this point, I've just given up on reload animations in Call of Duty. I agree, I am stoked for the full sized MP5. As for the M4, no clue, could be to balance it somehow? But, these are probably early development screens, wouldn't put it on being concrete just yet. If a MW3 forum goes up, I'll see about getting a 30 round magazine back for the M4 as I did see the MW2 M4 in a few of the screens on the Kotaku locations video. Shotguns, yeah, 870 would be lovely but... I could care less, why use a shotgun when you've got 7.62x51

Seems like they're pretty covered on the shotgun front, except for a traditional 870 style. But, I am a bit worried regarding the LMG's. None shown. Banking on the M27 IAR. CoD4, M4 with Bandolier, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact on Hardcore was my impromptu IAR class, always loved the concept. Either way, would like to see the return of a M249 variant (Mk 46/Mk 48). [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I had heard rumours that the M249 was reappearing as a "Possible" returning LMG. But I had also heard that somewhere, IW was going to make three variants of MG's featured in Multiplayer. Ranging from Light Support type weapons similar to "Black Ops", with 30 round magazines like the HK21 or RPK or just modified assault rifles with a bigger magazine, as well as other LMG's and SAW's like the M249, with GPMG's being the M240 or the M60 and finally mounted HMG's like the Browning M2 fixed into certain tactical positions.

Source? Wouldn't get my hopes up for ADDING any weapon classes, at least until I saw proof. IW tends to want to simplify things, not divide things up and add diversity. However, even if they put all of those types into the overall LMG category, would be wonderful. M27 IAR, Mk 46/48, RPD, PKM, MG3, M240L are my top choices.

However, sniper rifles are a subject of concern for me as well. MW2 including ONE bolt-action? This was a fatal flaw for me, the M40A3 was so much fun to use and the Cheytac kind of sucks. They've got a good lineup of sniper rifles here, RSASS, M107, EBR, but no bolt-action. RSASS is a good move because I've always wanted an SR-25 type weapon in CoD. They need a Russian sniper rifle of course and a few bolt actions (M40A5 or XM2010, Desert Tactical SRS (Bullpup bolt-action), and L115A3 would be all good choices). In addition, I've always wanted to see a Mk 12 SPR sniper rifle in CoD, something that did low damage but had a high magazine capacity. Would be great for Hardcore. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

very exciting looking at those leaked pics....and i gotta say its a nice line-up of guns so far...some old standard ones (M4, AK-47; M107) and some new ones i've never seen before like that KSG or the Magpul FMG (OMG the box gun from Robocop2!!!). Also i'm very glad to see the old 203 gone in favor for the newer M320! The AA-12 is cool but i didnt like it in MW2...it was just not that usefull because the boxmag so was spent within a second. the 20round drum mag would make so much more sence.
I really hope they bring back the M249, preferebly as the Mk46 or even Mk48 and introduce some new Russian MG like the PKM with the Blackwater-Rail System.
One question though: is the KSG something very special or simply a bullpup pump-action shotgun? [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 07:20, 16 May 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, again with the sporterized AK's, dont suppose they actually look at what the Russians use.

:The Russians have been looking at AK's with various rail systems. Take a look at the AK-200. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/27/ak-200-rifle-the-21st-century-ak/. Regardless, it's Call of Duty, not a simulator by any means. The AK in MW3 looks to be a step in the right direction over the airsoft-inspired replica in MW2. The KSG is a pump action shotgun which features the use of two tubes, doubling the capacity of a normal shotgun in this configuration and gives the operator the ability to switch tube magazines once one is expended (Due to magazine capacity laws). But in practice, it features a 14+1 magazine capacity, which is astounding when compared to normally configured shotguns like Remington 870's. Also, it features a twelve and I believe six o'clock rail for mounting of accessories. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:If it's got a six o'clock rail, does that mean we'll be able to stick a Masterkey on it and have a shotgun with a back-up shotgun? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

The KSG is a pump-action shotgun. If you did put an underbarrel-type shotgun on it, then you wouldn't have enough room to pull the pump back enough to eject a shell. Besides, that would be unnecessary and impractical. The KSG had two magazine tubes, so if you needed a breaching round, beanbag round, or etc. instead of buckshot, then you could just switch the feed over to swap from lethal to nonlethal. A question about the MP5, what differences are there between the Navy and A2 model? Other than the lower receiver being metal with a new trigger group instead of synthetic with a German fire selector layout. The MP5 in MW3 looks like a Navy model but I'm guessing there's a reason someone changed it to A2. Just wondering if I was wrong. And how do I automatically leave a sig at the end of my messages? xD new to the site. -

:You use the masterkey as the pump, silly. It's genius! (Or rather, it's no less silly than some of the things the series ''has'' done in the past). Leaving a sig is four tildes (~) in a row. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:27, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:But if you used the masterkey then it would take up all the ro- oh I see what you did there. And thanks for the sig help. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 01:34, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:Plus, any under-barrel attachments have been confined to the Assault Rifle class, and more recently, the AK74su "SMG" in Black Ops, which in real life... is still an Assault Rifle. Shotguns have no precedent in CoD for having under-barrel attachments of any sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Can someone help me identify the weapon the guy on the front-right is holding? Looks like an RPD or RPK to me http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/wtfisthisk.jpg/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:44, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: Pretty sure that's the RPD, yep. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:21, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Only not-yet-seen weapons I saw during the trailer were the P90 at 0:32, FAMAS at 0:35, UMP at 1:04, RPD at 0:52, and an unknown weapon with a flashlight at 0:55, looks to be a bullpup of some sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:38, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: The weapon at 0:55 looks like an AUG to me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

My thoughts exactly, or a Tavor. The barrel looks too thick to be either though, might be a flashlight/suppressor? [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:10, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==HELL YEAH==

the guns are supposed to look rusty and mangled and outdated because its a fully urban war environment like homefont

i think the new model looks badass in a stealthy black camo

does anyone know if these pictures have been confirmed to be real

: Robert Bowling said that the leaks were mostly accurate, likely alluding to the fact that they're from an early build of the game. So some stuff might've changed, but this is what we know so far. What model are you talking about specifically? I don't really see rusty and mangled anywhere, the weapons all look pretty pristine to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:35, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

==The tossed magazine doesnt look right==
In the newest trailer I noticed that a soldier tosses a magazine to the player but it's easy to see that you cant see any bullets in the top of it. I don't know that much about M4A1 magazines. Is there a door that opens when it's inserted into the rifle, did the devs over-look this or what?

: Probably due to either being lazy or being an early build of the game. IW's track record is so-so for magazines, on a normal AR-15 magazine, there are two lips at the top of the magazine and the rounds feed through them. The magazine will spend most of the time in game, being lodged in the weapon, so it's not really that big of a deal to me personally. But you are correct, the magazine model doesn't look 100% accurate. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:06, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Thanks. The real world acuracy and high detail in the MW games is what sets them apart from all the other games based on modern combat. I hope that was just an eary build.

Sorry Anon, but no, if you want real world accuracy play something like ARMA, or even Battlefield, but not COD. The weapons either aren't handled properly, or have thing on them that would never be, or are mounted wrong, or are used by people who never would, or have stats that don't work for the real weapon at all, or are out of scale, and they STILL havn't added +1 in the chamber. For better or for worse COD is a playable action movie, and the graphics literally havn't been changed since COD4. I can't really comment on 1, 2, or 3, but MW fits your description well, it's not a military simulator, but it was quite good. WAW was okay, but it was pretty much just the COD4 Marine missions for the whole game, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot etc. MW2's singleplayer was good but not amazing, there was too much that was just a little too far fetched, and a few glaring plotholes. MW was like a war movie (Saving Private Ryan/Black Hawk Down/etc.), but MW2 is an action movie, that's why it wasn't up to par with MW in my opinion. BO had potential for a good singleplayer, but the had a serious, conspiracy filled plot, and tried to make it a bad ass action movie at the same time, and those don't go together very well. COD games have good potential, but it always seems to get wasted. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

==Plot Holes==
So the campaign takes place in (from what appeared in the leak) New York, France and Germany. Besides the massive stupidity of Russia invading the U.S. East-to-West. How would Russia manage to fight it's way through Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine, the Baltic states and the Czech Republic into Germany AND then through Belgium and Holland to get into France. At this point, I think even China would be over-extended watching over eight modern, democratic nations and be fighting a a war with two of the strongest of these plus the U.S. But at this point Activision could release a fifteen minute demo and it'll still sell millions of copies. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:16, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A possible explanation is that in their new found "ultra-nationalist" rage, they take over or make a new alliance with all the former warsaw pact countries. That would explain a few things on the man power problem, a possible explanation is that similar defense system breaches occur in the attacked areas (like in MW2 DC got waylayed pretty early). Maybe NATO got complacent with the Russian threat and signed a non-aggression pact(WWII). Still I agree with you there is no way in hell they could attack NYC, Germaney, England, and France all at the same time having already attacked the eastren seaboard in Mw2. Seeing as CoD is the 10 ton ape in the consumers eyes, it really wont matter.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 01:44, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

::The plot for London getting attacked is (or atleast was) that terrorists funded by the Russians attack London. The SAS raid part of the Docklands (I think that is East London) where the Russian terrorists are, but basically end up chasing them all over London, ending with a gun fight infront of Parliament (surely we'd also see one of the Guard regiments as well, since they're both in London?). Whilst I'll let the "London's Burning" bit of the plot slide as it is plausible (if ''very'' unlikely), I agree, the rest doesn't seem to make sense. But hey-ho, this is CodMod, where reality takes a back seat so that we can enjoy bombing around in Berlin, Paris, NYC and London... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Guns ==

I like the way few of currently known guns are going. AK-47 looks a lot more like rifle that Russian Army may use some time. It has cheapest Crane Stock and not one of most espensive ones (Yeah, Vltor one is expensive as fuck) and handguard is basically one ris rail on each side with rail covers. Not full plastic handguard. G36 is plain and easy which is both suprising and awesome. M4 seems like its pretty cheap too. I like that Czech Vzor 61 is back, hope it will be in hands of Czech partisans. Anyway, few guns are ugly like fuck. For example that winchester or MP5.

Well, game will suck like all of those "new" CoDs from World At War to Black Ops. But it will be atleast a bit interesting. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:04, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: I don't understand what you mean by "cheap". There's nothing wrong with Crane stocks... The AK in MW3 doesn't even have a Crane stock, it's a standard LE stock, which is a good stock. You don't need a Vltor stock to shoot a weapon accurately. AK rails don't have to be crazy railed hanguards like in MW2, which was largely inspired by an airsoft weapon. See Travis Haley's one-off MAG-K from Magpul, using the Ultimak rail system. The cost of a component doesn't effect how it behaves in game, or in real life for that matter, it's reliability and effectiveness that count. What's wrong with the handguard with a rail on each side with rail covers? That's generally what rail systems are. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:13, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Yes, i know. Thats what i meant. Any army on world (especially Russian) would hardly put shitload of ris rifles on their weapon and overpriced stocks. By cheap, i meant cheaper than MW2.

: I still don't understand what you mean by cheaper. How? Like, in real world money costs? In aesthetic looks? The Russians are putting different rail systems in their modern AK's, see my AK-200 link from Firearmblog. Russia has arguably one of the most powerful and modern militaries in the world, what would discourage them from placing RIS rails on their service rifles like everyone else? Tapco, the company that makes the rail system and stock adapter for the AK in MW2 is one of the cheaper companies in terms of quality and price, Tapco still makes good stuff regardless. Just confused as to what you mean by cheap. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:09, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: No one else ticked off that in any of the videos or demos present, there have been NO new guns? Granted, the AA-12 has a new skin, and so does the MP5, but no drum mags for the AA-12? And to be fair, I preferred the MP5K. But seriously, in MW2's Cliffhanger demo, there was tonnes of new weapons and attachments shown, like the ACR, FAMAS and the new AK. But so far, the only "new" guns that were leaked in images haven't been shown. I'm really disappointed in that. [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 12:12, 14 June 2011

== Pistols ==

Am I the only one completely pumped for the P99 and P226? Hopefully both are usable and rendered well. I tend to get more excited over the pistols rather than assault rifles in video games.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:15, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Nope, you're not the only one. I'm ''slightly'' disappointed that they seem to be going with the 1st-gen model, but otherwise, I'm hoping for the execution, so to speak, to be superb and the rest of the game to be worth 60 bucks. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 23:25, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

I'm looking forward to seeing the SIG pistol too. Always had a soft spot for German guns. I hope it's usable and not just part of a character model ... [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 23:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Looking forward to both, and more. Preferably the USP and M1911. M1911 was epic in MW1 and in MW2 they took it away from multiplayer, and in Black Ops they made it black in singleplayer and chrome in multiplayer for some silly reason. Hopefully they got the silver/chrome out of their systems with the P99 already. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:36, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Part of me says "Yes! A game that you can fire a P99 and it's NOT James Bond." Another part of me says that Hand Guns, unless automatic, serve no perpise in todays FPS world. Oh I miss the Golden days.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:55, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:That's funny, since I PWN most people in FPS' who have Assault rifles or Submachine guns with my '''semi-automatic''' handguns, especially in MW1 with my USP45 :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:53, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::I agree, COD4's USP was amazing. In COD4 handguns were how game handguns should be. Most people suck with them, but if you get good with pistols, they kick ass. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:16, 29 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Yeah, most people in WM1 waste a whole pistol mag by rapid firing at me (even with a Desert Eagle!) and I just double-tap them in the chest, end of story. One time I ran into three guys at the same time in a small room and I just wiped them all out in seconds and then two more showed up (one had a SAW!) and I rapidly took them out before they could fire a single shot. All in all, I wiped out five guys with a my USP45 in about 10 seconds! That's why my friends nick-named me Vincent, you know, from the movie [[Collateral]], because I can take down multiple people very quickly with a USP45. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:44, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::::I start to get annoyed in most FPS when the pistols are severely underpowered. Like in Black Ops- in reality a few shots from the 1911 would put somebody down, but I've had instances where it takes one and a half magazines. I still agree that MW1 got the pistols right, and IMO it is the best CoD to date.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:25, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Thats what I did when I sniped in CoD4. Since I suck at sniping, i usually got more 1911 kills than R700 kills. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 12:36, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I agree, COD4 had pistols right, amongst other things. I am a bit worried about the Machine Pistols continuing from MW2, it's not fun going against snipers who are so well armed. A sniper should have a pistol and his rifle, that's it... not an Uzi... especially not a Raffica that's essentially an M16. Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense. In MW2, snipers use their MP's to assault positions and run around as if they had an SMG. This isn't cool. Regardless, I think they need to make sniper rifles less of a close range deal. People pride themselves on using the Intervention at close range, and using the M40 ACOG to no-scope. This is so against what those two weapons are designed for I can't even think straight. But, this's off topic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:48, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Arg, yes, I HATE quickscoping soooo much, but yeah, the balance to snipers is they only get a pistol, so they (are supposed to be) stuck to long range fighting. Oh, and I hope shotguns are better, not like MW2 1887 better, like MW1 W1200 better. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:43, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
:The funny thing is that real US snipers use a M16 or a M4/M4A1 as they're backup weapon for they're sniper rifle along side a possible M9 pistol which would be a backup, backup weapon. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Don't quite see how relevant this is. As I've said before, CoD isn't a simulator. Also, I distinctly said "Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense", in a paragraph and in a section regarding MW3, a video game, in order to defuse any realism comments. It's simply not fun/balanced, in my opinion. In real warfare, yeah, there's really no room for fairness... but it's a game that can be adjusted to be the most fun for everyone. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:19, 1 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I know, just say'n. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:I understand that quickscoping takes skill, but it still makes me sooo mad. I think that they should find a way to limit sniper rifles to long range only. Anyway, back on topic, I realized that Quantum of Solace actually got the pistols right too. Two or three shots from a 9mm puts someone down and one to two from a .45. This might be because the game really focuses around the P99 and other pistols more than rifles/submachine guns.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Doing something that's silly can still take skill. Putting my hand in the mouth of a Shark and yanking it out again without a scratch takes skill, but it's still silly. Skill can't be the sole factor in weighing an action's legitimacy. There should be no ACOG option for any sniper rifle, especially bolt actions. Period. I'd be in favor of making a 6x or Variable Magnification scope available for sniper rifles (and assault rifles in the case of the former). My point is not that quickscoping is done, it's that IW has created a game in which it's possible. It needs to be made impossible. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:36, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Very well said, it is not legitimate because it takes skill, you might as well put Rock Band gameplay in and FPS if you think like that. COD may ot be a simulator, in the sense of what people use, unlikely events, etc, but every FPS needs to have the weapons used properly, in a technical sense, and so you can't snipe with a compact pistol, or quickscope, etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:12, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

It would be so nice to see a stealth mission where you sneak into a complex (probably as price and soap) to kill a leader and you have to sneak through hallways and vents with suppressed P99's with a fellow soldier like in Prypiat in COD4. WHY cant this happen. It would be a nice change of pace and not feel like a straight rip off of All Gilled Up like Contingency did in MW2.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:37, 06 June 2011 (CDT)

:These are nice additions, but I'm still hoping for an XD or XD(m) -- preferably in .45 caliber. :P [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:03, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==
Is it possible that the soldier catching the magazine could be holding a [[Armalite AR-10|AR-10]] 7.62x51mm rifle? Since the developers finally learned about magnifiers maybe they think they could make a hybrid sniper/assault rifle by using a bigger bullet? I just don't see a reason why soldiers would be using 20 round 5.56 magazines unless they figured out it bigger magazines don't work well in prone. Plus we do see that fire selector switch on semi? I personally think it's a AR-10 with a shortened barrel.
:Sorry dude, but the mag is too small to be a 7.62x51mm, it's defiantly a 556'er. So it's a goof on IW's part, at least for now. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr.
Wolf]] 08:31, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::Here's a thought, in Black Op's they modelled some guns with Extended Magazines when the "Extended Magazines Attachment" was added, perhaps IW has done the same? Maybe the 30 rounders are extended mags, while they revert to 20 rounders for default? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Well that's just dumb. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:02, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::And yet they made it so that an M4A1 could carry 45 round magazines without changing the magazine on the model in MW2. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:15, 27 May 2011 (CDT)
: Yeah, there's no way it's an AR-10. They've already got something similar to an AR-10 in the RSASS, which is akin to the SR-25/M110. Draco, my thoughts as well. It still doesn't make sense, but if extended magazines show up on the gun as a 30 rounder, would work. That in my opinion, is Black Ops' greatest contributing to CoD, taking abilities away from perks and adding them to attachments. Example, the taped/dual magazines in Black Ops, gave a slightly faster reload time and added more ammunition in total. This took an emphasis off of having Scavenger to last any long period of time and allowed people to balance Bling and Sleight of Hand.

: Furthermore, everyone seems to think that IW is making a system whereby one folds down the 3x magnifier and uses the EOTech singularly and vice versa. I really think IW will be using an EOTech as a separate attachment, and a magnified EOTech as its version of an ACOG. I have yet to see a picture with a regular ACOG, correct me if I'm wrong. By all means, it would be preferable to have it behave like in real life where you could use both or the EOTech in different instances, but sadly I think IW may just be saving on development time by combining the two. However, what I think is more likely/logical is for them to include a traditional RDS/Reflex, and an ACOG, while including the EOTech with magnifier as one attachment to make it different from the RDS.

: IW could also be making the M4 with a 20 round magazine because they want it to -act- like a 7.62x51 NATO, i.e. be more powerful, so therefore they'd have to balance the ammunition capacity. IW is notorious for making weapons with silly statistics, like the SCAR-H being 7.62x51 NATO and having a very small amount of recoil on full-auto.

::I doubt that. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::If anything, it seems the most logical explanation for them making a 20 round magazine standard on the M4. The M4 was one of the weakest assault rifles in MW2, so it's logical that they'd try and up the damage on it and offset this increased damage with a smaller magazine/semi-automatic fire rate. It's still silly, but IW isn't dumb. They may not be well known for making a realistic game, but balance is kind of their forte, even if it's manifested by making weapons have odd properties. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::You know what, It would be really funny if IW made the 20-round magazine hold 30 rounds anyway, lol. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:48, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:PS - There is a picture of the MP5 with an ACOG from CoD4 in the leaked pictures from Kotaku, assuming this won't be in game. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:45, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's because they're comparing the MW3 MP5 with the MW1 and 2 MP5s. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 05:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::That's also why I put that PS there, it's a toss up between a comparison and including them as variants. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:21, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Cover Art ==
What is that the dude is holding on the cover art? It first glance I thought it was a TAR21 or something similar, but now I'm thinking its an M4 of some sort, but with an AFG Magpul grip attached instead. Could someone clear this up for me? --[[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 14:09 25 May 2011 (GMT+0)

: Yeah, it's just an AR variant with an AFG on it. It seems that IW has received a lot of sponsorship from Remington and Magpul, so it's possible that the AFG may be included as an attachment, though that's very doubtful. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:37, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: Ahh, its nice to choose having a grip, but choosing the actual grip model is a luxury we will probably never have in CoD. Ironicy, it is one of the thigns I want MW3 to deliver, weapon customization like in Army of Two 40th Day. That was/is a BEASTLY game for weapon customization. Like PMG on console. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 12:26, 26 May 2011 (GMT+0)

:: I think COD's decent enough in terms of weapon customization, one step they could take is allowing Bling Pro to give you three attachments (Not including M203/Masterkey in my opinion) and add a few more attachments that were in Black Ops and ones that aid in recoil/accuracy that aren't sights. Or, the more preferable solution in my eyes, is to separate attachments from perks altogether. In other words, get rid of Bling and just give people the ability to customize their weapons. There's no invisible wall preventing one from putting attachments on a weapon in real life. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:08, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Yeah, it worked for Brink afterall. just make it so having a grenade launcher stops you using throw lethal grenades, or stops you from having a first perk, simple as. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:12, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

== MP5SD2 ==

I think there was '''NO''' MP5SD in the reveal trailer. The COD wikia has it wrong. [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_3] It is a normal A2 with a suppressor, unless the SD2 has rails around the built-in suppressor. Well, this game is pure sci-fi so, I don't know.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:29, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Without agreeing or disagreeing (I'm indifferent toward this game at the moment), I don't see anything that would prevent IW from sticking rails on an MP5SD if they wanted. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:37, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Err... Guys? ==

Just remember that there's still no guarantee this is even getting released, depending on which way the pending lawsuit goes. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

*I imagine it'd come out regardless, just without the Modern Warfare brand if Activision loses. You know, like it was going to be with FEAR 2 being just "Project Origin" before Monolith bought the franchise from Activision. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::But if Activision loses, and can't use the MW brand, doesn't that also include, and mean they can't use the characters either? Like Price and MacTavish? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:48, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::I don't think so, even when it was "Project Origin" FEAR 2 was going to have Alma in it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:52, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::: If it is being pushed through to November, it's going to be released. Activision wouldn't risk losing their baby of a franchise to go out like that, they aren't dumb. COD games come out every Holiday season like the sun rises and sets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Flip-Up Sights ==

The german magazine GameStar did a preview on the game, apparently IW and Sledgehammer showed two levels of the game in London. And they write something about "flipping up sights" as a new feature. It isnt explained what this means exactly, nor is there any picture/video material of it, but it could be a hint about it. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:They're probably talking about that magnifier; I guess that means you really can control if it's used or not (D-pad function, perhaps). Games magazines can usually be relied on to get every piece of firearm terminology they try to use wrong since they learned gun terminology from video games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:24, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::They actually use the german term for Flip-Up sights, so i dont know. I posted the question in the comment sections, maybe i'll get an answer. But even if it's the magnifier, still an improvement. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:42, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::The minute I posted this, I got a response. You are right, she means the magnifier. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Either way, seems to be an improvement. Thanks for the info! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:23, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Samopal Vzor 58 ==
In Prague level (Czech Republic), Russian soldier can be seen holding an AK type gun that seems like Samopal Vzor 58. Off course its most probably just wrongly lighted AK-47, but it may sense that he captured it from Czech Army as it takes place in Czech Republic.

[[File:Samopal Vzor 58 MW3 probably.JPG|thumb|left|200px|Well, it would have been really awesome if IW included this rare weapon.]]

[[Image:800px-Sa 58-JH01.jpg|thumb|left|400px|'''Czech Sa. vz. 58P''' ''(Pěchotní aka "Infantry")'' with fixed stock - 7.62x39mm]]

Just look on it - It seems to lack AK ejecting port, it may lack top-mount RIS rifle and gas block looks shorter. Also, body looks almost tiny compared to 7.62 magazine.

:: There's already an AK variant/format weapon that's not of Czech design, IW wouldn't put another in just for kicks. What you're likely seeing is a lack of modeling, or lighting as you indicated, for example the M4 in MW2 didn't have an ejection port simply because it's a mirror image in terms of a weapon model, laziness on IW's part. As for the magazine, the mags have always been a bit oversized on MW AK's, but they're not ridiculous. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:31, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== New Weapons Confirmed ==

From reading several previews posted 5/26/2011, multiple games press have confirmed a few weapons. Modern Warfare 24/7 has a list of these previews here (http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/first-mw3-previews-screens) while the one that details the weapons by name are found here (http://aggregame.com/news/2011/05/26/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-preview/). Weapons confirmed in closed doors preview include: AK-47, P90, M4A1, Spas-12, AT-4, and XM-25. The XM-25 has been called the "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" or "a nod to the crossbow" in other previews. Also confirms the usage of a "hybrid" sight mixing acog and red dot and its use. Lastly, theres a "9-bang" which is a "cluster bomb" of flashbangs and/pr stun grenades that you throw (I don't know if that one is a real life thing but someone who's more versed in gun/warfare knowledge confirm please). Please update main imfdb page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

: Modernwarfare 247 is notorious for labeling firearms inaccurately, they did so with MW2 on several weapons before correcting it after the game came out. There's nothing in the Modernwarfare 247 article that says XM-25, but either way, it's not a sniper rifle by any means. Would be a cool inclusion if it's in. Dunno what the 9 bang thing is, stun grenades and flashbangs are increasingly irritating, I don't think they need to be made better by any means. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

You are correct that the Modernwarfare 247 article doesn't name the xm-25, I merely mentioned that it had a list a previews and that some of the previews do. The one paticulalrly from aggregame.com, which I linked, mentions weapons by name. Many articles of the gaming press, who clearly don't know guns like the people on here, claim a "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" on the New York level. Aggregame.com's article says this in the 3rd paragraph quote, "We see a new type of weapon used in this level called the XM25. This weapon uses a laser rangefinder to determine the distance to the target and once fired, detonated at the proper distance to produce an airburst effect. Anyone hiding will be properly taken out." Now, judging from the grammar used (though this is only a hypothetical analysis) he mentioned it being "called" an XM-25. Meaning that the game files at this stage of development identify it as such, not that he used it and was like "oh I know what this is". Judging from the description of many gaming press articles (again linked by modernwarfare24/7) it 'seems' to be the real thing. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

:Arg, I was just in the middle of adding that :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:55, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Ahhh fair enough, gotcha'. Hm, well I hope they actually make it semi-automatic and with a small overall ammunition capacity. IW seems to shower in explosions and knifing, when they're making a -shooter-. I dunno' why they don't focus on making their conventional firearms better. Either way, nice snag on the info. Though, I will still caution you on MW247, I encountered them in my MW2 forum days and they weren't reliable at all. The 9 bang thing is troubling, what the hell was wrong with the Stun/Flash grenandes? Stun Grenades are -way- overpowered in my opinion, granted being stunned is an effect of a common flashbang, but being paralyzed -and- blinded, isn't. Regular flashbangs are enough, nothing else. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:59, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah, I wouldn't mid COD so much if they toned down the knifing, seriously, it's not sothing you should use because you couldn't think to do anything else, it should be a very last ditch defence, this goes for all shooters. What's strange is when I play COD4 (cause I still play 4 :) ), there's very little knifing if you watch the killfeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:My thoughts exactly, Commando is silly. They had it right in CoD4. One thing that really bothers me, is that even on Hardcore, when I'm face to face and lighting the person up... it's still possible for them to knife me and walk away. Getting shot should interrupt the knife ability, and it shouldn't work faster than bullets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:30, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Exactly, it's not that it's one hit kill, it's that it's so damn fast! Bad Company 2 got the knife right, you press the button, and it kills them about a whole second (that's a long time) later, it's mostly an assassination weapon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Just wanna throw out, the XM-25 is now also confirmed by IGN. Link here: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1171345p1.html. Someone can edit the main page appropriately as I'm not the most professional gun expert. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 22:23, 30 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

The "hybrid ACOG" could be one of Trijicon's ECOS models which have a small red dot sight mounted on top. And within a month, everybody will be whining about how "unfair" it is to have a scope and an RDS in one package... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Controversy ==

Well, it was inevitable, but the controversy's already gotten rolling.

[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110393-Daily-Mail-Voices-Concern-Over-Ultra-Violent-Modern-Warfare-3 Escapist: Daily Mail Voices Concern Over "Ultra-Violent" Modern Warfare 3]

[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Fortunately, most gamers care about good games regardless of content. personally, I could care less what the media says. Not a big issue, always going to be this somewhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:12, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: The controversy is exactly what they want, it's good promotion. Just like that whole "airport-level" in MW2 was. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 07:12, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::Yup, it's good marketing for them, people become more interested when all the soccer mums etc. cry out about something. Until we see games like GTA actually getting banned, we FPS players have nothing to worry about. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:54, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Killer, Alex, those are the most truthful words ever. They dont care about decency or people, they care about MONEY. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 17:58, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:I get upset every time I see footage of the Towers falling, but that doesn't mean I think such images should be censored. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown Ak Variant ==

I was think the gun listed as the Unknown Ak Variant might be a AK74. I thought this because it appears to have a longer flash hider, which the AK74 encorporates, although I wouldnt hold my breath. Thoughts?

: If you check out the flash-hider on the leaked Kotaku screens, you can see that it's emphatically not the AK-74 typical flash-hider. It's something I've never seen before, it's like just the last few centimeters of the AK-74 flashhider, married to the barrel. Magazine looks too curved to be the AK-74, so it's probably a 7.62x39 AK. AK Variant is good enough for me, CoD's AK's are always pretty non-specific. :) [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:52, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:: On first screen, that unknown AK variant looks like Vzor 58 rifle as it doesnt have AK´s ejection port/ bolt. On second screen, its just normal AK that is on one of those leaked shots. They arent same, as first gun is longer, thiner and lacks top mounted RIS rail.

: It looks different because it's in the dark and is low-res, whereas the leaked one is in the bright daylight and is a high-res closeup. It's the same weapon, there is no reason why IW would include both being so similar.It doesn't have the bolt/ejection port because IW is lazy and uses mirror images of weapons to render their models. Where the end of the receiver meets the stock adapter and the angled area of the receiver around the magwell are dead giveaways that it's not the Czor in addition to the spacing of the ribs on the receiver, which on the Czor are very close together. The magazines are always a little bigger, just CoD's style, and even then the magazine looks just fine to me. It's an AK variant, not the Czech make.

:As for the length, it's the same. What you might be confusing is where the gas tube meets the barrel as the end of the weapon, in the reveal trailer capture, the barrel ends near the man's thigh it's just hard to make out. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:01, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

Shouldn't the AK-74 in the main page be called "Unknown AK variant" or something like that? It's a bit hard currently to determine what is the correct variant, but by the leaked footage, this could be the same customized AK-47 like in Modern Warfare 2 only with different flash hider, handguard (which is also in black instead of tan) and black stock instead of tan. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:50, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: The railed foreguard is distinctly smaller. The stock isn't a VLTOR-type stock, but an LE one. Also, in the CoD Elite snippet trailer, one can see that the leaked Kotaku picture is legitimate. It matches the AK in that perfectly, this is a new AK weapon model for sure not just a painted one from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:25, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

== Call Of Duty: Elite ==
Kinda off topic, but this site's COD talk pages always end up becomeing half about discussing the game anyway, I was that trailer for Elite, and man, they expect us to pay for that? I mean, it's cool, but Bungie's been doing that with Halo forever, and it's free... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:02, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:The only color that matters to Activision, is green. I don't get it, your company produces the top-selling franchise of recent history, and you still want -more- money... get over yourselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 17:13, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:Meh. Don't like it, then don't pay for it. Vote with your dollars. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 06:41, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I agree, and I don't plan on paying for it. Bungie did heatmaps/statistics/awards/etc for free... Activision is marketing Elite as some sort of CoD Facebook with the occasional prize won. As long as those are the only perks, then I will not be paying for it. However, if they decide to transform it into some VIP membership giving members say, discounts on map packs, early access, or different weapon/abilities that are available no other way... then it's supremely disappointing and insulting to the people who spend an already outrageous $60 USD on the very game they produced. I understand that Activision is a business, and the goal is to make money... but this just seems like overt greed and a way to cash in. It's also detrimental, because for some odd reason, CoD seems to set the paradigm for all FPS's of late. So, other companies now feel pressured to emulate CoD in order to make money themselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:45, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I'ts been pretty much summed up already. DEFINITELY not buying this, and I'm still not even sure I want MW3. I saw somewhere that there are no dedicated servers, which was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing that could save it is...well...a miracle. I am probably just going to go with Battlefield 3.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:36, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not expecting much from MW3, but I will get it for the singleplayer, just to see what happens with Price and Soap. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

They buy it used. Kick Activision where it hurts.

Battlefield 3 looks great, really high hopes for that one. MW3 doesn't look bad necessarily, just the same stuff in a different package. Will get it and play it a ton, but, as far as a good game being made, Battlefield 3 is going to take the cake. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:03, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, well said, I don't think MW3 is gonna be BAD, just the same thing again. BF3 looks awesome though. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:49, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Not going to lie, I'm going to buy this to round out the MW series (hopefully it ends with #3), and I'll be buying BF3. I will not be paying a single cent for the Elite service though. There's no reason for it to exist as a pay service. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:55, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

DICE also just blogged about their FREE BattleLog thing, which is pretty much the same as Elite. But free, because DICE seem to be less concerned with making dough and more concerned with producing a decent game and making their customers happy. IW makes their customers happy, sure, but most of those customers value big 'splosions rather than deep and interesting gameplay. I love CoD, but Battlefield is long overdue and as a company, EA/DICE are good in my book. Really looking forward to the Multiplayer footage and information that'll be coming out of E3 in the next few days. Seems a bit odd though, nobody seems to be posting regularly on the BF3 Discussion thread... get to it! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

Ummm... is Call of Duty: Elite directly related to MW3? If not, shouldn't it have it's own page? Please correct me if I'm wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:04, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Elite is some kind of online service, not a separate game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:36, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== TDI Vector in Call of Duty Elite, MW-3 Snippet? ==

In the snippet of mw3 at the end of the Call of Duty Elite trailer, when the player is killed the stock of the TSI Vector from Mw2 appears on his back.
[[File:TDI Vector.jpg]]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 22:04, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: Yep! I noticed that too. It's prolly indeed, the TDI Vector. However, I did notice that stock somewhere else on a weapon it shouldn't be in MW3, I can't say where, I just feel like I saw it somewhere. Good spot! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:24, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Could that be the M93 Raffica from MW2? I've always thought the stocks look similar. Although why a pistol has a stock in the first place is beyond me. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:39, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:::To make it a more stable firing platform, especially for a pistol that fires in full-auto/tri-burst. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:33, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== E3 Footage ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfTBe_PJrQ
Some firearms could be seen here. AA-12 confirmed. --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 13:26, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

You can see the AK-74u, P-90, and Glock 18 as pickups at times 5:14, 5:22, and 6:46 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

AA-12 is used for breaching the bridge of the sub starting at 6:16 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:52, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

I am nowhere near impressed with what we've seen out of MW3 so far... Good spots. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

2nd E3 Trailer spots at trailer found here (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-call-of/714784?type=flv). AK-47 as pickup at 1:29. 0:09 Driver of Humvee screams "RPG!", Dshk mounted on enemy vehicle at 1:40, M2 on automated gun system on Stryker at 2:16, Mi-24 using Yak-B gattling gun at 2:53, 9-bang used at 4:27, RPG (with RPG-7 sound from MW2) fired towards allied npcs at 4:50, XM-25 usage starting at 5:20, AT-4 as pickup at 5:30, AK-47 Grenadier seen as pickup at 7:00 possibly a gp-25 or a gp-30, Spas-12 as pickup at 8:12, Thermite grenades at 8:40, Reaper Drone weapons used starting at 9:25, M134 Minigun sighted 10:32, and RPG-7's fired at player shortly after, M134 magically taking down Hinds for remainder of the video (Hind cockpit glass alone is 12.7mm resistant).
:Wow, four years were not enough for them to realize that there is no such sh*t as "AK-74u". - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:21, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Hehe. Even when I name my classes I always find myself putting the 's' in it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I've seen people refer to the S model as a "Ak47 pistol". I mean, seriously, a pistol? makes it worse the bloke who said it is a retired soldier who fought in Vietnam. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:41, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
Note how they say 12.7mm resistant. With a m134 you have 50 rounds a second heading for those Hinds. Now I've known people who are attack helicopter pilots and they do not want to get hit by a minigun as while such things as Titanium armored tubs will take the hit such things as armored cockpit glass cannot due to the number of bullets hitting the "glass" Sort of like how you can drop a quarter on a car window and it will bounce but if you drop a tin can full of quarters it will break the window.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:38, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The worst thing was that you got HIT by the crashing Hind, then HIT the building, fall out of the Blackhawk (almost), pull yourself BACK IN while it's spinning out, and GET BACK ON THE DAMN M134, then, oh we're fine, let's keep on flying... Oh, that and the HUGE BRICK OF C4 that you breach the Bridge with, and it doesn't hurt you... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:58, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::MW3=$60 MW2 DLC. Not impressed by anything I've seen so far, other than it taking place in NY; but Crysis 2, anyone? -Kangabox

Few more finds in the msnbc coverage of E3 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/43349883#43349883). Some gameplay of spec-ops shows (at 0:30) a man running around with a lever-action rifle/shotgun of some kind. It looks similar to the M1887 shotgun from the "leaked" photos a month back. At 0:53 the gamers are using what appears to be the Bushmaster ACR but I may be wrong because I'm not a gun expert. Someone please identify, thanks. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 20:50, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

:Did anybody notice that the MP-5 was called an MP-5k? and that the ACR was called ACR 6.8 --[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

More MW3 stuff. M1887 spotted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRx33M0V6I --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 01:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Actually, that may be a hint at caliber change options and the option to remove/attach stock.We'll see. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:03, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:^ This would be so awesome --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:58, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I doubt Activision would put something semi-realistic in CoD, but if caliber change was implemented I would buy it just for that reason.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:17, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::: Imagine what an 7.62X39 ACR would be like (it can be modified to use it). Just kill the bad guys and pick up their AK magazines. Awesome. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:38, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 18c ==

Should this not be put down as a Glock 17 seeing as it's likely it's the exact same gun from MW2? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]
:We should wait until we get a good shot of it before we make a decision, although it is likely the same.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, Jazz :) -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

== Unknown pistol from Late Night footage ==

[[Image:FN57MW3.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

Can anyone help identify this pistol? Looks like an FN Five seveN to me (sorry for bad quality) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:15, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yep, that's a Five-seveN alright, cool. EDIT, it holds 15 rounds. Wow, hardcore fail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:I had figured they'd do SOMETHING to balance it, either keep it at 20 rounds and give it low damage, or reduce mag size to keep it similar to other pistols --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:46, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Is there a link to this footage? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-61311/1333686/ Also confirms the inclusion of the Model 1887 in the game --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:36, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

FN five-seveN- YES! One handed grip- meh. Could get over it. Once (or if) they confirm the P99/P226, I will be more excited. At one point, the developer says something like "This gives an action movie feel. We tried to make it a cinematic experience." That is what CoD is- an action movie. If you want a military sim go to Battlefield.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:23, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:True that, I will always enjoy both games because they offer completely different experiences despite being the same genre. I'll be more interested in MW3 when they start announcing some MGs, but the Five-seveN is a pretty cool addition --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:53, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Gotta agree with both of you, there, I'm psyched for an FN five-seveN in a game like CoD. -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 00:43, 15 June 2011
::"Wow, hardcore fail." Alex, what the f#ck did you expect from a call of duty game. +1 round in the chamber? Some things will never change. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:53, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Haha, I was never hopeful enough for +1, but until not they'd gotten almost all the mag capacities right, especially since the 20 round mag is one of the most notable features of the Five-seveN :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::::If it did have 20 rounds, people would complain that it was overpowered. All in the name of balance! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:51, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Not if it was very weak, no one complained about the 20 round Five-seveN in the Counter Strike games. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:16, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::There is that I suppose. It'd probably never be used in favour of something a little more powerful with fewer rounds though. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:22, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

:And of course it's probably still going to have 15 rounds in single even though multiplayer balance is totally irrelevant there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
::Good point, didn't consider that. Screw Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:12, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

I am starting to realise that if ammo sharing between primaries and secondaries comes back from Cod4, most SMGs will have an advantage, as of now there are many possible combos (P90/Five-seveN, MP5 & FMG-9/P226 & Glock 18 and possibly UMP45/USP45 or M1911). This would make Scavenger (if it returns) unecessary and would open up a perk slot. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 19:38, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:That would be awesome! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:04, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 back in MW3 ==

Does anyone think the M1911 will be back in Modern Warfare, and I found a 1911 looking gun when soldier blind-firing with a UMP45 in the reveal trailer [[File:UMP45-MW3]]

:I know the shot you're talking about, it could be a 1911, I HOPE it's a 1911, but it could also be the P226 with wierd lighting on it, if there really is a P226. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:46, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope both are included, the selection of secondaries in Black Ops was paltry, more pistol choices plz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:54, 16 June 2011 (CDT)
: yeah more pistol choices because in black ops I only used the m1911 and the python.

:I only use the ASP, I know it was highly outclassed by all the others but it was obscure enough to make it a favourite.--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:41, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:I like all the pistols in Black Ops (except the Makarov, I've never liked it), but the problem was they were almost all the same, low capacity, low damage, like the WaW pistols. While we're talking about pistols, has anyone else noticed that the sildes of the COD4 pistols actually locked back when empty, and the WaW ones had working hammers? Then starting with MW2, it just became part of the animation, so it would fully cycle, then appear back when you started reloading. Black Ops continued this too. The only pistol in MW2 that locked empty was the 1911 because they just copy-pasted the whole thing from 4, and the only one to lock empty in BO is... the 1911. Apparently they just reskined the WaW 1911 in BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:06, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Can't say I'm surprised, I suppose the majority of players don't notice small inconsistencies in weapon function animations. I guess they could get away with copy pasting the M1911 from CoD4 into MW2 as it was only featured in campaign, which in itself was pretty lame as it was the only sidearm I used in CoD4 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah Ive heard about it and sceen it do you think they fix the bug --[[User:GVK2009|GVK2009]] 22:01, 16 June 2011 (CDT)GVK2009

: I wouldn't be surprised, it's kinda become a tradition to have it in the series. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:36, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::They better, if only so Price can have it like in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons Wishlist ==

Any particular guns that people are hoping to see in MW3? All I need in order to be happy is the M240. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
:Hmm, I'm having for some drum mags and Frag-12 rounds for the AA-12. Also, a Blaser R93 LRS2 wouldn't go amiss. Probably not a military weapon, but neither is the WA2000 or the Winchester 1887. *Cough* MW2 *Cough* Also hope they bring back the M93R but fix the magazines to give it 30 rounds. And hopefully they throw in the PSG-1, like in BO, but make it look decent (Not sure about you guys, but to me the gun looked disgusting in BO). That's pretty much my wishlist, I guess. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:08, 17 June 2011
::Argle bargle there is no such thing as an M93R Beretta does not use M for model prefix etc etc [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thanks for the correction, Tim. I'm not amazing with guns, but I hope to improve. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:24, 17 June 2011
::Muh the AA-12, sure it looks cool but it can never, ever be balanced for inclusion in a video game. Also I think the PSG-1 in Black Ops was hot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
All I need to be happy is a HUGE selection of pistols, not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs, AA12, etc, and (gonna get a lot of heat for this) NO QUICKSCOPING. IMHO snipers should be used as snipers, and running around close-quarters with a sniper is simply a one shot one kill semi auto rifle. Pistols I would love to see in the game even though half of them have a guaranteed 0% chance- Walther P99, SIG-Sauer P226/P228/P229, HK P30 or HK45, Beretta Cougar or more realistically the Px4 Storm, S&W M&P, Para Ordnance P14 45 Limited (this would be the best pistol in the game, as I would leave out the Desert Eagle), and to round it all out a good ole Smith & Wesson Model 686 with Pachmayr Grips. I am also glad that the FN Five-seveN is in it, I just wish they gave it a proper two-handed grip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:09, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::About the PSG-1, ALL the weapons looked terrible in Black Ops. JazzBlackBelt, I'd be worried if you took heat for not wanting quickscoping on this website, that would seriously worry me :/ And, yeah, pretty much what you said. As for balancing an AA-12, no, it can't be done, everyone go watch FPSRussia's AA-12 video, especially when he one-hands it; you can't balance that. They just made the pellets disappear after (literally!) 10 feet in MW2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:04, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::'not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs' Haha, as a regular LMG user this makes me sad :( I don't think LMGs are 'noob guns' if employed properly, they are fairly essential in defensive roles if playing gametypes like domination in which points NEED to be effectively locked down. However, I will concede that the majority of players who DO choose LMGs do so in order to hold the trigger down and hope 2-3 of their 100 round belts hit, which is just not on. As for quickscoping, I can't stand it. I feel it's cheap and 95% down to aim assist (though obviously not on PC). --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:29, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::I'm so ''sick'' of the term N00B, ugh. I'm not going to give my "wish list" cause IW is gonna do what "they" want and not listen to "us", I stopped playing COD games at WM2. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::75% of the LMG users use them improperly, like running around not really aiming. I still get annoyed when they kill me (I get annoyed at pretty much everything when it kills me) but if they were actually using it properly it makes me feel a little bit better. As I play on PC there are still annoying players that play outrageously, but on PC virtually nobody uses the mic (on CoD anyway) so I don't have to listen to them talk!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:25, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::I'm the same, though I think getting annoyed is part of the fun. It must be, otherwise we wouldn't keep playing. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::Nah, getting annoyed is never part of the fun, the game is good enough that we can clinch our teeth from the few annoying things and still enjoy the game. ;) (At least in MW1 for me anyway.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::I've never been that keen on CoD4, definitely not on PC anyway. The maps are far too small for the amount of players each server has :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:33, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Love COD4 on the PC, I love the 24 to 50 players on those "small" maps, 50 players makes it a true war! I prefer playing on Hard Core mode, just love it, no HUD, 1 or 2 bullets to kill someone, that's the way all the COD games '''should''' be by default. :) Never played WM2 or BO, they're too silly and Hollywood. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:22, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::::COD4 is by far the best CoD in my opinion. I play on PC, but I hate when there are too many players on a map. I aim for servers with about 4-15 players. Likewise, I love the big maps on BC2, but only when there are enough players.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:53, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Aside from seconding the inclusion of a bigger variety of combat pistols (note that by "combat pistols", I don't mean Desert Eagles, S&W 500s, and the like), the only weapon I'd like to see is a Mark 12 SPR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:48, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be for more Shotguns and to have them placed not ONLY as secondaries, but Primaries too. For example, I'd love to have the semi-auto M1014 or the 1887 as a primary but have a smaller sawn off shotgun or a compact pump action as a secondary, like a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser. MW2 with it's secondary shotguns was a bit of disappointment with me. I'd love to see more real life mainstream shotguns instead of the damn SPAS-12, it's overused for god sake, just start adding the 870 or the Mossberg, I wouldn't even mind if it had all the "Tacticool" crap on, as long as it was either the Mossberg or 870 underneath it all. But overall, more pistols in general, maybe a sniper rifle with only a single shot fire capability, a G3 Rifle from COD4 and maybe some really old weapons, like a Bolt Action Mosin Nagant or a Lee Enfield Rifle. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:36, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:How about NO shotguns as secondaries? IMO primaries should be the rifle/shotgun and secondaries should be pistols. Two shotguns? A little bit overkill and unfair.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:58, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I don't know, there is something crazy fun about running around with a M4 and the semi-atuo M1014. Unrealistic, and ridiculous? Maybe, but can't deny that its fun. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:02, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be that we could choose our equipment before the missions. There are some, I suppose where that would be unrealistic such as the 'No Russian' from MW2, but I think it would give everyone a bit more personal or in depth experience if they could choose their kit. I love the idea that we could get the flip up magnifier for an EOTech sight, but in general I prefer how much less of the screen is taken up by the red dot sight from MW1+2. I don't know enough about programming to understand if this would be impossible, but right now I have a bit of a crush on the Bushmaster ACR and would love to play levels with that, and in a few months when I'm having another of my HK 41X kicks play the game again with that rifle. Living in the UK my PC is the closest I will get to these guns, and I think everyone would have more fun if they could personalise their kit rather than have it chosen arbitrarily by IW/Activision who, I doubt, could not come up with one reason, good or bad, for giving you the equipment that they do. One specific request Sig Sauer p226 in .357 sig, they won't do it but you have to have dreams. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:00, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

A Weapon Loadout wouldn't be too hard. Medal of Honor: Airborne did the same thing. Maybe, completing missions, unlocking achievements/trophies (and a separate means on PC and Wii), unlocks new weapons to choose. - [[User:1morey]] June 20, 2011 8:50 PM (EST)

Two main things I'm hoping for: First, I want my F2000 back, but I want IW to get the unique optics right -- the EGLM sight on the real F2000 is magnified, so in-game, it should be the ACOG scope that looks like the EGLM, not the Red Dot. Second, I want a Springfield Armory XD or XD(m) pistol, preferably in .45 caliber; hell, I'd settle for the Croatian HS2000 that the XD is based on. I have a few other wishes (XM500 instead of M82/M107), but those two are the only ones that really have any chance of coming true. - [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:13, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

When will CoD learn? i love CoD but its seriously going down hill from CoD4. they had nice, popular NORMAL weapons in CoD4. M4A1, AK, M16, 1911, M9. now their bringing in stuff that knowone has ever heard of. is it too much to ask for a normal Glock? maybe a 17 or 21 in place of the USP. maybe use some pistols actually being used by actual SF Operators like the Glock, Sig, 1911, Springfield XD. and what is up with the Russians carrying FAMAS's. just looking for a call of duty that had the same quality and standards as COD4.. anyone with me on this? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:59, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74u ==

Shouldn't the section for the aks74u on the page be titled "AKS-74u" and not AK-74u with quotations? IMO it's the same as calling a Glock 17 converted to full auto a fake Glock 18. I don't believe in the "call it what the game calls it" method because that is incorrect. I think we should definitely mention that the game incorrectly names it in the description, but the title should be the actual gun it is modeled after.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:47, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:It uses that title because the weapon is actually a replica of the JG "AK Beta-F" Airsoft gun, not an AKS-74u; it's a mess of different AK variant bits and pieces (mostly AK-47) that's shaped a bit like an AKS-74u but certainly isn't one. Hence it's a quote-unquote AK-74u. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:23, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just as Evil Tim said, it's only similar to the 74u in name, it's a bunch of different AKs, and it's not even a 74, it's a 47 anyway. Someone could copy-paste the description from the COD4 page. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:43, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

::Then shouldn't it be titled the model of the airsoft gun? All other pages I have seen that use airsoft guns as stand ins for real guns have the gun(s) it is modeled after and in parenthesis the airsoft gun. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up as I'm not much of an AK expert.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:25, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::It's not exactly the same as the Airsoft gun either, though. On a movie page where the gun in question was being used to play a real one, yes, you'd use the name, but here it's a fictional gun ''based'' on an Airsoft gun, so you just have to go with what they call it in quotes. That's how it's normally done for Frankenguns and fictional custom weapons in games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:Well, technically the only difference is the bakelite mags, but "AK-74u" looks WAY better than "AK Beta-F". [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:19, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::There's some minor differences in the layout of the gas block and front grip (check the CoD4 page images) and I'd agree it looks better to call it by the game name in quotes; it also makes it easier for someone looking for an ID of the weapon to actually find it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::The gas block and grip just look like fail modelling, but they are different ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:20, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

Thanks for all the replies, really cleared that up for me. As I said before, I am NOT in any way an AK expert. I had read that the one in COD4 it was modeled after an airsoft gun, and assumed the airsoft gun was modeled after the actual gun, not random bits. To avoid making other people confused I will update the description with a modified version of the COD4 one.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah I know what you mean by not an AK expert, it took me forever to be able to tell what one was just by looking at it for a sec, and there's still a lot that I come across I hadn't heard of. Same with revolvers, even now, they still all look the same to me lol. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:29, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Other than a few Smith & Wessons, don't ask me ANYTHING about revolvers. But hey, that's what this site is for- educating people about firearms.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:56, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:Lol, well said :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:58, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

It is correct that this gun is not an aks 74u and that the term ak 74u "doesn't exist." However, I don't know where the author of the main page got the information that this gun "doesn't exist." It's called an SBR (short barreled rifle) you can look it up if you don't believe me, just type in: short barrel rifle ak. Also, I know for a fact that you can fit an aks 74u type muzzle brake on the rifle. Most, if not all ak type muzzle brakes are compatible with each other. Just sayin'. --[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 16:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I googled, and there's no weapon listed called an "AK-74u" on the first page. If you can find a fullauto AKM-pattern weapon that looks like the one in the game and is called the AK-74u ''by the manufacturer'', then feel free to add it to the page, but as far as anyone can tell it's an "AK Beta F" Airsoft gun. This would hardly be the first mistake CoD has made regarding weapons, CoD1 had eight and ten-man weapons with a one-man crew and MP44s at Stalingrad in 1942-43. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm sorry for the poor communication, the gun is call a "Short Barrel Rifle." Ak 74u is just a nickname of AKS 74u. Look up "Short Barrel Rifle ak" on google. You are correct in saying that the Ak 74u isn't a "real weapon."--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:43, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:SBR is a legal classification of weapons (shoulder-fired rifled guns with barrels 16 inches or shorter) which require a special tax stamp and registration, it's not a specific gun. It's been applied to handguns with shoulder stocks before. What you're finding with that google search is weapons which fit that legal definition. Bear in mind we ''don't'' use legal definitions here, because legally, for example, there's no such thing as a fully automatic shotgun (it's a "machine gun"). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:49, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Regardless of what you say it's classified as, the weapon exists regardless of technical terms. I was merely proving the weapon existed. Even if it is heavily modified.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:55, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Um, you're looking at dozens of different short-barrel AKM-pattern weapons with that search, the only thing they have in common is requiring an SBR stamp. It doesn't really change that ''this'' AK isn't a real gun, because it's an Airsoft gun based on piecemeal bits of the AK47 and AKS-74U. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:01, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, I don't want to debate the issue with you here, I am aware that you are correct about the SBR title and its classification. However, If you look at the weapon posted, you will realize that it is merely an AKM with a shortened barrel, the pictures I found proves that this customization exists. You're going by weapon title whereas I'm going by the weapon itself. A weapon like that could, in theory, exist. With full auto capability and everything. But do what you will, It doesn't bother me at all, However, I think you can agree that this fictional weapon is at least based off a real firearm.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:09, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

The only Aks 74u piece you're talking about is the muzzle brake.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:12, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and the sight, but dude, I don't want to be that guy, I just want to show that this gun could be real, after all, the gun in-game doesn't show any manufacturer or anything, it's just a customized AKM.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:15, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about the fact that the configuration could ''theoretically'' be made into a real gun, though. We know of an ''actual'' Airsoft gun which is mass-produced right now and easily available to be used as a reference, which is all but identical to what is shown in the game. This means it's based on a fake weapon. Whether you could make an actual weapon based on ''it'' doesn't really change that. We say the same of handheld miniguns in videogames which have the "chainsaw grip" from T2 but retain the half-circle attachment point for the ''Predator'' M60 grip: you could make a minigun with a useless half-circle attachment, but that doesn't change that the useless half-circle comes from the Airsoft version we have pictured on the M134 page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:23, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

By all means do whatever you want, you know more about this site than I do, and frankly, I like this site and don't want to get into an argument on it. Either way is fine by me. And I'll leave it as a agree to disagree kind of thing regarding its actual existence. There's not enough evidence to say it does or doesn't exist. So I apologize for my previous remark. I leave it at a possibilty.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:30, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Call of Duty XP 2011 ==

I doubt it, but was just wondering if anyone is going to this? I'm curious if they got all the right guns in the "Call of Duty Armory", which apparently has the guns from CoD in it. You also get the chance to play MW3 for the first time, and a little beforehand reporting never hurt anyone ;).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:00, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:If I lived in the States/had the money to afford a flight to LA I probably would have gone. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot from FourZeroTwo/PKP Pecheneg spotted? ==

[http://a.yfrog.com/img736/504/nceia.jpg]

Looks like the Juggernaut soldier is using a PKP Pecheneg (note the distinctive carry handle on the top of the barrel).
There are some other guns lying around, possible an M14 on the left? Looks like a .308 mag to me....

(also is there a way to post an image directly in a discussion?)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:16, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Anyone else notice the annoyingly obvious Remington and EOTech trademarks? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:03, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah I don't like the trades at all, though I doubt I will use the ACR all that much. Good job on the PKP spot Ghost, think you're on the money there. Have wanted the PKP for a while. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:50, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's not like guns have rollmarks in real life, right?-protoAuthor 21:10, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, I don't mind the trades. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:46, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Each to their own, but they are massive so it feels a little like (very obscure) product placement --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:51, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, I'll take overt sponsorship over price rises. You have to remember that games have gone from something that could be made by half a dozen people in six months to something that takes 150-2,000 (GTAIV) people years and costs millions of dollars, and in real terms games now cost less than they did in those days. For example, the original ''Turok'' adjusted for inflation cost over $100 when the N64 first came out. They've got to get more money from somewhere, and you should be glad that somewhere isn't you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::I think it's brilliant. The MW series has made ACOG and EOTech house-hold names to an entire generation of potential customers. How many twelve year olds knew what an ACOG was pre-MW? Or what a Remington ACR was, or FN SCAR? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:00, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::But can they tell the difference between a Remington ACR and a Magpul Masada? But seriously, I don't mind the trades that much. Sure, they are gigantic and wrongly placed, but will you honestly be focused on that while playing?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:14, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::I suppose not, no. You might struggle to play the game if constantly focusing on your gun's trades. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:17, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Yeah, you guys are right, the product placement isn't too bad, it's just the oversized obviousness that bothers me. Oh, and I'm not familiar with the new EOTech in this game, but isn't the EOTech trade where the buttons should be? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Not necessarily, I believe the model depicted there is the EXPS2, which has the buttons on the left-hand side (http://www.copquest.com/75-8030.jpg) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:18, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Oh okay, it doesn't bother me nearly as much now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:13, 14 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::If you guys have 3 minutes to spare, here's a youtube vid of the EXPS2, which indeed does have the EOTech trade on the back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpw0IigxQM Plus, at the 1:00 minute mark he brings out a magnifier that has the same flip to side capability as we saw in some video for MW3, I don't remember which.
::Yeah, it is a PKP Pecheneg, Confirmed. - [[User:ReikoKotobuki|ReikoKotobuki]]

== ??????? ==
Why haven't all the guns from the Walther P99 to the Heckler & Koch M320 (above) been applied to the main page? Every image containing the guns have been confirmed as official by Robert Bowling.
:They were on Kotaku, which is not a reliable source, and last I heard they said "some of the information released is accurate, some not". If they have been confirmed elsewhere, please post a link.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:54, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

This isn't rocket science. Those pictures were leaked before the gameplay videos were. Look at the M-4 from the video, then from the Kotaku Link. They're the exact same, and the MP5 as well. They're legit, I'm convinced.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 17:04, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:This website operates based on CONFIRMED information. However likely it may be that they are legit (I'm convinced too) we have to wait for them to be in an official gameplay video.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yes, plus, as the template at the top of the age says, all images must be from ''official trailers''. The pics here are still from a leak, even if some of them have been confirmed. I'd say the only time we should use leaked pics is ''after'' the release if they include weapons that never made the final cut (eg the minigun in the leaked STALKER alpha), but never before. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:18, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, fair enough. Sounds good to me.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:24, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Survival Mode Trailer ==

Look HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDQ2Ow-VfI&feature=player_embedded. New weapon spots include...(please identify) at 0:11, (please identify...maybe Scar-H) at 0:14, buy screen confirms USAS-12 and M60E4 at 0:40, G36 at 0:42, ?auto-grenade launcher? (mk.19???) at 0:48, new telescopic lens attachment at 1:25, riot shield at 1:38, FMG-9 and bounding landmine (unknown type) at 2:04. Please update main page accordingly =D --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:24, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

You beat me to it, was just in the middle of writing a post about this! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:30, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Forgot to mention, at 0:42, ACR using 6.8mm ammo --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also 0:52, it IS a mk.19 automatic grenade launcher!!!! --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:34, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think the weapon at 0:11 might be another AR platform weapon, they show more of it at 0:15. I'm thinking LWRC's M6A4 but they're not an exact match. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:: It's the same M4 seen in the leaks and the E3 footage.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Nah that's shown at 0:17, is definitely a different gun. Much longer than the M4, also the rail system, charging handle and rear sight differ. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:25, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Dammit, I was hoping they wouldn't bring back that juggernaut soldier. Also, seeing what they did to that poor 1887 made me cry. One good thing though, deploying a riot shield squad could be interesting.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:56, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, weren't riot shields also available in MW2? I remember seeing them in MW2 videos. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:37, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::Indeed they were introduced in MW2, but only the AI could use a sidearm in tandem with the shield. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:15, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Aww. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also, here's the list of weapons up for purchase during the trailer: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110809195831/callofduty/images/8/8f/USAS_12_Survival_Mode.png Clicky!] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:02, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The landmine device at the end of the video is an IMS landmine. Information here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk. I don't know if we post about that kind of thing, but claymores are listed on the main website. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:36, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

== Colt CM901 ==
[[Image:UK1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UK2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Anyone know what this is? I think it's LWRC's M6A4 but I'm not certain, definitely isn't either of the other AR platform weapon's we've seen so far though

Well, since Infinity Ward loves to put Future Weapons stuff in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the LWRC M6A4 made an appearance as a mag-fed LMG, Black Ops-style. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:28, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ That's what I was thinking, the reload animation looks quite slow for an assault rifle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yet, once again, they have put the rear iron sight backwards :P --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:57, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::Good job whoever identified this as a Colt CM901! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:05, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, that iron sight isn't on backwards. That's the standard BIS for M4's in the Army. Every M4 in our Brigade has that flip up sight. The only thing wrong with it is that it's supposed to be a the standard peep hole, not the night sight that you see on the M16/M4 carrying handles. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 09:51, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::: For reference, I believe [http://www.aresarmor.com/install/media/ecom/prodlg/matechbuis.jpg this] either is or is a commercial copy of the sight he's on about. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:33, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::Yes sir that would be it [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 12:27, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP5K!! ==

Someone throw in the MP5K to confirmed weapons, it can be seen with a holographic in the vid, after the player tosses a purple smoke grenade for AC-130 fire at 1:08 in the newest trailer! :D Dunno WHY they add it in with the regular MP5, but it's confirmed in the bottom right hand corner. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:On it. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:38, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::The strange thing is that the difference is not even noticeable as the guy holds the MP5K close to his body and the buttstock (the buttplate on the MP5K) isn't visible. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:46, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I think it has a buttstock attached, as far as I can tell. I get the feeling this is the only MP5 variant in the game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::::What the about the MP5A2? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:00, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I thought they both looked very similar (buttstock, rails etc) so that's why I assumed they might both be one and the same, but if they're both confirmed as separate weapons then fair enough. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:07, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::They could have misnamed the MP5A2 an MP5K. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:12, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I also think this might be the only MP5 in the game, and if it is the MP5k OR it is a MP5A2 misnamed, I'm going to get angry. The MP5k is a nice gun, but I want to be able to use a full size MP5 again, like the good ole days. Ahh, how I miss COD4...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:17, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::True to that. Well I'm still playing COD4, huaha! >:D I just played Black Ops only for a little while, I completed SP, played Zombies and MP for a couple of hours until I quit due to the frustrating and the annoying, and went back to playing COD4. XD Oh, and I never even touched the abomination that is called MW2. D:< - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I played Black Ops for a while, enjoyed, then played COD4 again and realized how bad BO was. Recently I broke down and bought MW2 because Steam had it half off, and having extremely low expectations for it, I found it wasn't terrible, but just bad. I still play the MP, but I have no idea why.
We saw the teaser trailer and it is the full size MP5. I'd be damn if they kept the MP5K. Seriously man. In Black Ops they had the right idea of no mini Uzi and gave us a full Uzi, I want me full size MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:Hehe. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
::Seriously though, I don't know why they put the smaller variants of everything. MP5k, Mini-Uzi, and small guns in particular like the sawed off shotgun and stuff. Don't even get me started about the excess rails, which appears to have continued over into MW3. 0.o--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:37, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I quite like the MP5K, but for the most part I prefer the full size variants of the weapons they include. As for rails, everybody knows the more rails you have on your gun, the better your gaming experience will be. *Trollface* --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:20, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
::: Needs more Tacticool. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:31, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
:::^ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:58, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

== M60E4 could be M60E3 ==

After looking closely again at the trailer, I have noticed that the picture of the M60E4 is actually the M60E3 from [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Of course we haven't seen MW3's M60 in action yet, but once again, could be another mistake, or just an early development place holder... Here are the pictures for comparison:
* Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-18-50.jpg
* Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:COD4M60E4.jpg

What do you think? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:54, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think they images they're using atm are largely just placeholders until final ones are chosen, so the final in-game model may end up being the E4 variant. Guess we'll have to wait till footage from CoD XP comes out to see for ourselves. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:09, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:: The fact the MW2 ACR image is being used supports that. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:45, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== FAD assault rifle ==

Whereabouts in the spec-ops trailer is the FAD? Someone updated the main page but no pics. Here's a picture of the FAD for anyone who hasn't seen it, looks horrific [http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5347/fad3vv2.jpg] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:Just watched the trailer and am 99% there was no FAD in it. Also, the MP5K is actually a railed MP5A2, and can be seen from the side on the ground when the first juggernaut fast ropes in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:50, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::I thought so. :) And yeah the FAD is pretty horrific looking. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:29, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::OMG that gun looks bleh...i'd rather see the F2000 or TAR-21 again, those are some sexy bullpup rifles. But this time please with correct grenadelauncher placement.--[[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:29, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
: Chrausis, the FAD isn't in the trailer, but can be seen on Sledgehammer's site in image 2 as seen here [http://sledgehammergames.com/]. And Commando, you may be right, but Robert Bowling confirmed on Twitter both versions of the MP5 will be included. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 02:38, 13 August 2011
::Hmm... this could prove interesting... if they pull it off right there could be pros/cons to each version, i.e. MP5k lets you run a little faster but poorer accuracy and MP5A2 gives you better accuracy but a little slower. Of course, they could just be making the MP5k a secondary, which would make me pretty mad.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:10, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::It's kinda hard for MW3's MP5K to be a secondary with that A2 stock. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::::That was the MP5A2 we saw, just with rails.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:24, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::But the HUD said "MP5K Holographic". :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:15, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::1of 2 things is happening. 1) IW has REALLY screwed up this time and put an A2 stock on a MP5k or 2) the HUD is just a placeholder from MW2 and will be updated. I can't tell if the handguard is full length or not from that clip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:42, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I think there going with the Machine Pistol Secondaries again, perhaps the MP5K is in the Machine Pistol Slot now, makes sense, considering it's smaller profile and IW's reputation, given that they had placed similar weapons in the catergory such as the MP9 and PP-2000. Might have a smaller magazine capacity or trade in something else over the full size version like firepower or accuracy. I know that one theory of mine, is that the A2 version may function similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung 40mm Grenade Launcher. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:26, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::The GSN-19 is a '''30mm''' grenade launcher dude. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:16, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I was using that as the US equivalent, the only other '''30mm''' Grenade Launcher I see in use by US Forces would be the 37mm and that's usually designated to Police Riot situations and signal purposes, not exactly a great combat multiplier on a Sub-Machine gun. And did I mention the GSN-19 anywhere in that description or saying that it was '''30mm'''? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 01:23, 19 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::You said "Similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung '''40mm Grenade Launcher'''" <-(referring to the '''30mm''' GSN-19 that mounts to the AKS-74U). Just making a correction. Anyway I see a 40mm grenade launcher being mounted on a MP5 kinda silly, Half-Life anyone?

== Purchase Weapons like Black Ops? ==

Was just curious after watching the Survival Mode trailer, anyone else think that IW maybe following Treyarch's example and giving all their guns, equipment and killstreaks price tags in the Multiplayer Armory instead of unlocking them with experience and further ranks? I personally enjoy the idea, as in Black Op's it worked quite well, I could buy what I want and didn't need to work too much in order to get it. It was always in reach. What do you alot think about this? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:31, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:I would prefer the money system. as you noticed, the upgrades where always in reach and it wasnt necessairi to perform a gazillion kills simply to get that one feature unlocked, that i like. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:23, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

:Robert Bowling has confirmed that there'll be no in-game currency (other than in survival mode) but there will be a whole new system in which weapons are unlocked. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:52, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== One handed grip ==

I know its not supposed to be a sim, but a one handed grip on the pistols is going to get old quick [[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:24, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:I agree fully.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:31, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
::Be thankful it's just a one-handed grip and not a sideways 'gangsta' style grip. Though now I've said that... --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
::And they wouldn't even have the shell casings eject into the player's face.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:33, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
::Would make you flinch if you were playing in 3D. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:08, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
On a lighter note, they are supposed to be bringing back a fully sized MP-5[[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:34, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:Old news pal. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

== Infinity ward when will you ever learn ==

that russians don't use 9mm european smgs in frontline combat i throught Russians used heavy calber Russian weapons.--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

And I hate the EBR why do they have it in there!

know what I hate in COD games is that the player automatically thinks that they know every gun just by playing cOD.But I still like cod enough to play it--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:They don't really care about the minor details. They just want to create a fun game, rather than to do a research about a weapon and recreate it in the game itself. I myself, also getting annoyed of the unrealistically bull**** stuff that the developers put in CoD, especially CoD:BO where 90% of the weapons are anachronistic. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:14, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

We have WAAAAYYY passed the realistic mark with CoD. CoD is basically a playable action movie. If you want realistic, play Battlefield. Depending on how they present multiplayer, I play it because it is fun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, yeah, the CODs since 4 aren't so bad if you just think of them as action movies. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:01, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

did anyone actually pay attention of what i wrote?- nazi fishwife

:You basically went for the rather tiresome 'an unrealistic game scored better in reviews than a realistic game, so people must prefer unrealistic games' line. This is a fallacious argument unless you can prove ''Modern Warfare 2'' scored more highly ''because'' it was unrealistic and that it would have scored less if the weapon choice had at least attempted to make sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

how is it a fallacious argument, action packed less realistic games are statistically better than realistic, slow and boring games i had proof i added all of the scores modern warfare 2 and all of the scores with operation flashpoint 2: dragon rising on the page but it got deleted because it wasn't set out in the acceptible fashion - nazi fishwife

:: I love the EBR and its still in service. It's not in alot of games/movies so why do you hate it? - Joey1666

You're asking when Infinity Ward will learn? They did, and a majority of them quite the company. What's left of IW is nothing compared to who they used to be [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:09, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I went kinda over board,What I ment about the EBR is not the gun I hate,Its the damage in-game what I hate.Other then that I love the EBR.An about the Russians I was just making a point like it making them look like a terroist army when they are not.Like they could be using a little more Russian weaponry.Right (makarovs men are the terroist if you didn't know),Anyways COD is still my favorite game series.--v 15:07, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[user:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]
----

== Confirmed guns still on Talk page ==

The following guns have been confirmed (either by official trailers or by live gameplay videos), and have already been added to the main page; therefore, they can be removed from the "unconfirmed" list on the Talk page (and IMHO, removing them will help prevent any confusion):
*FN Five-seveN
*Magpul FMG-9
*Colt M4A1
*Customized AK-47
*Remington ACR
*Heckler & Koch G36C
*Winchester Model 1887
*AA-12

Talk:Medal of Honor (2010)

2011-04-04T00:25:52Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Glock 19, tan Frame? */

==Missing weapons: Heavy Weapons In Singleplayer and Explosives Multiplayer==
For the sake of being a complete guide there are still some weapons missing. The weapons I notice missing from this list include the emplaced weapons: The ZU-23 Anti-Aircraft gun which is seen in both singleplayer and multiplayer as an unusable model. The DShK heavy machine gun which appears in singleplayer on a shielded tripod mount and in "Breaking Bagram" as a technical mounted weapon that is used momentarily by the player. The explosives in the multiplayer game and their detonators deserve a separate mention as well (the C4 and IED respectively). The C4 is also used once in "Dorthy's a Bitch" in singleplayer. The SOFLAM in singleplayer may also be mentioned if it counts. The mortar used by the Taliban in the singleplayer game is pretty generic but might use a mention.

P.S. I would include them myself but I need to find a way to take screenshots via my PS3. Is there software to do this? [[User:Maphisto86|Maphisto86]] 07:44, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
==Glock 19, tan Frame?==
That frame looks tan. Not OD at all.

Its definately tan, I'm also pretty sure its a glock 17, my TV is low def but I'm sure its says 17.

Don't need to see the number to see that its a 17, its grip says all.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:30, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Glock classified it's frames as OD, not tan. Take it up with Glock.

is it possible its a Glock 22? it would make sense with the ammo count. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 19:25, 3 April 2011 (CDT)

==Missing weapons==
[[Glock 19]], Deuce's sidearm both suppressed and unsuppressed.

[[DShK]], which you have to suppress in the first Ranger mission.

==Any screenshots of "new sidearms"==
So we can add to main page?

-Yeah, I hear there's a Glock, but I have yet to see it.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 15:23, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

It's in any level that you play as Duece. I'd take screenshots, but my camera sucks and I only have the 360 version of the game.--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 16:10, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

What model is it? I've heard 19.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 16:39, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

It's a 19. 15+1 cap

I don't get the game until tomorrow (ready for a whole weekend of no work!) and if it hasn't been added, I'll see if I can get some pictures up.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 09:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm just about done with the Airfield mission, so I'll be getting shots of Deuce's Glock 19 soon.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==New Sidearms confirmed!==
New article reviled.

SF has a Glock.
Ranger has the M9.
And someone we havent seen named Rabbit Has a Sig. Navy Seal im guessing

"When you play as "Rabbit" you carry a Sig which looks like it has night sights.. When you play as "Deuce" you carry a Glock. And when you are Dante Adams you carry the M9. These weapons can never be dropped, never run out of ammunition, and are an integral part of each character’s identity. The variety in these side arms is also intended to help give distinction and personality to each of the characters represented in "Neptune", "Wolfpack" and 1/75th Ranger"
:I have two things to say about that. One, I'm happy I wont have to look at an M9 throughout the campaign. Two, I hope they allow you to pick which pistol you use in mp since it'd effectively wouldn't change the balance at all. Just allow more individualism to the players. Did I mention I'm really tired of seeing the M9 in my games?
::Forgive Beretta if they've created one of the most successful pistols of all time, and it happens to be used by the U.S. military. So...I think either you should go design a new gun to replace it, or just live with it. Unless of course you want them to have the U.S. standard sidearm be an HK P30 just to be 'original'.

:Like most games the handguns will have different powers even if they're the same caliber, I'm betting. At least in Multiplayer anyways. Because in the level up screen you can see a level up sidearm section. And I'm hopeing only pistol are sidearms. Unlike modern 2 which had Shotguns and Machine pistols, which unbalanced the game

:You DO remember the first Modern Warfare where you can have TWO primary weapons on you, that's even worse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:54, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::Actually, MoH gives you two primaries and your secondary. Which actually isn't as bad as most would think. Some operators use a shotgun and their AR, and I'm sure having an SMG, a pistol and an M4 wouldn't be too bad, since I did it once for a test of my webgear for a review. Also, it's possible they could just use the different pistol models as just that, models. Same stats, but different appearance. --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 05:05, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

If you really think about it, having 2 Primaries on you, plus your sidearm is just too much. Maybe for a shotgun, but even then. You'd have 3 sets of reloads and it's already heavy on you. The only times An operator needs a shotgun alongside his rifle is that he needs to breach a door and no one else has a shotgun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:23, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I agree with ya about the having 3 different reloads, but depending on the weapons, the weight isn't so bad, or at least less noticeable. Anyway, it really could be worse. They could have you carrying two different types of rocket launchers and a machine gun like you can do in the Halo series.
:At least they're making it so that you don't ditch a pistol two seconds into a level. I've always hated how any sidearm looses all use less than a minute into a game.--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 06:01, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Am I the only one here distressed by the ''unlimited ammo'' aspect of the sidearms? This game is getting to be more and more ridiculous as it is. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:26, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

: Remember MW2 ? 400 rounds was total standard. And there isnt any true difference between ''unlimited'' and 400.

I liked it back when you can keep your sidearm and just pick up another primary. Sure it's a bit unrealistic to be carrying the max ammo for that gun, but not as unrealistic as dropping your handgun for a shotgun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:40, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:''The setup that Army of Two had was kinda neat. One primary (usually an assault rifle), your sidearm (a handgun or machine pistol), and a special weapon, like a sniper rifle or launcher of some sort - the special weapon usually had the least amount of ammo available. I'd like to see that for a game like this, and frankly, it'd make a lot more sense (I know about Rainbow Six: Vegas, but I'm quite unimpressed with how that game flows to be honest with you). When going into heavy combat, I'd like to have some kind of quickly accessible sidearm for when the shit well and truly hits the fan. If my main weapon runs dry and I need to switch, the backup shouldn't be a long gun that's equally as...cumbersome to bear as the rifle was (MW2, I'm looking at you). As for unlimited ammo, well, that's a tough one for me. Sometimes I really like having that capability (such as in Splinter Cell: Conviction with their sidearms). Other times, well, it's nice to know that I can't just fire all willy-nilly and carefree, because then I'll be out of ammo. I think that it should be an unlockable bonus - like Saints Row 2 or Resident Evil 5. Give people the option to play with it on or off, if they choose. Just don't glitch it like CoD4 did. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 22:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)''

Where was it shown you get two primarys? Pretty sure its one primary and sidearm. Ive never seen or read about that in this game.

Two primary weapons in SP. One in MP.

Two primaries can make sense, a barett 82 and m240 makes no sense, but if you are using m24 or m40, it would make sense to carry an m4 for defense when your close up instead of room clearing with a bolt action.

==Possible 1911==
Settle an argument for me lads. Picture below, Possible 1911 if the standard Taliban Grach? [http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs544.ash1/31810_408238329053_135747814053_4185509_6821919_n.jpg] I doubt we can go by bore aperture on this one.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 00:48, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Looks like the Grach, doesn't have the distinct look of a 1911's muzzle.

==Knife?==

I watched the "Leave a Message" trailer recently. I think one of the Rangers had a Gerber LMF II knife attached to his MOLLE vest. I own this same knife which is why it caught my eye.
:Maybe so, but we need to avoid putting knives down. Yes, the MW2 page as well as some others have knives, but I'm in favor of removing said knives from said pages entirely. The site is called Internet Movie '''Firearms''' Database for a reason. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:00, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I prefer it to have ALL weapons listed its interesting and gives more content.
:''In that case, list it here in the discussion page when the game releases. A great example of this is the page for 2004's The Punisher. GM45 (I think it was him) took great care to screencap the variety of knives that movie had and list them there (among other things). But he left the main body of the page for the guns, which is why people come to this website.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 22:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
::It is a member's CHOICE to add non-firearm weapons for trivia purposes. As long as the added blades or other weapons are well documented and the page does not consist entirely of non-firearms, it's perfectly fine. They're in a gray area, like explosives (grenades and C4 aren't firearms yet we document them) and improvised weapons (like the drill in Tomb Raider). - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==beta release date?==

When will 360 beta be out? I keep hearing within a week but have seen no announcements by the company.
:http://twitter.com/medalofhonor
:http://twitter.com/pottan

Both links failed, and im getting pissed waiting, gives you high hopes for the games multiplayer when a short beta is this delayed......

I heard somewhere they're going to run it after they fix the bugs from the PS3/PC Betas, after they're done, because it will allow them to find new problems and because it saves money. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:38, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

==weapon balance==

i just saw the 12 round beretta mentioned i think they did that for balance reasons. Another game too focused on fairness. God forbid you unlock a gun later on that just owns.

-k9870

Yeah its kind of annoying when its that balanced, at least you could pretend its the .40, but I wouldn't even know what to do with the Grach, its named the Tariq (which is something else) and has 12 rounds too, when its supposed to have 17. Wait, couldn't they both just have been 16 to be in between? If I WAS going to make an overly balanced system like this, I'd try to make it close, why take them both down to 12? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:38, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
::Pretend it's the .40 too

Haha too bad there isn't one... WAIT! If you really want to stretch it you could pretend its the compact MP-448, 12 rounds of 9x18mm lol :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I hate when the do something like "the m4 has 20 power and 30 fire rate, the AK has 30 power and 20 fire rate, so there balanced. Then they go weapon x is more accurate than weapon y since its weaker and needs an advantage. I wish when you leveled up you had guns with good advantages that just own.

-k9870

I want a game that keeps the round in the chamber, keeps track of your extra mags (not the one big number bullshit), all the functions to be right, none of the guns to be set in a firing mode they're not in, the ability to switch modes to whatever that weapon has, the correct attachments (no AKs with ACOGs, or M14s and G3s with M203s), the correct animations for reloads, correct fire rates, correct mag capacities, correct zooms on scopes and no zoom on reflex sights/irons sights, its not really too much to ask I don't think. The only thing that would be arguable would be damage stuff does, but for the MOST part if you used the calibre measurement as the damage it would work (i.e. 5.56mm does about 22 damage, 7.62mm does 30, .50 does 50) it's not perfect but I at least want the guns with the same calibres to do the same damage... Rant done. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:38, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:There is a game for you, it's called ArmA. Mainstream arcadey FPS won't have all these features. But I agree at least counting bullet up the pipe would be nice touch. That always bugged me too. I have no idea why CoD games still doesn't have this. Anyway, ACOG (or any other weaver optic) on AK is not a problem via special mount. 203 on G3 and M14 is possible too.

Oh believe me, I wouldn't need ALL that, I still play the mainstream FPSs, it would just be nice, I just kept going with the list ;) And I do know you can technically put an ACOG on an AK or a 203 on the M14 or G3, but it would be nice to see the things that are supposed to be there... there, like the HK79. The attachments thing certainly wouldn't be as important to me as the round in the chamber, and I don't think guns of the same calibre having the same damage would be too much, its not that would take any extra effort... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:Same caliber doesn't always do same damage when shot from different barrels. M16 and M4 is a good example. In case with M16 bullet tumble and fragment thus making more damage, but when the same ammo shot from M4 it does not.

I knew that but didn't want to make my posts too long ;)That's fair, I meant more the stuff that doesn't make sense, like a 12 gauge that does more damage than another 12 gauge because it's pump action vs semi-auto, or like in Modern Warfare 2, which is the game I'm mostly complaning about, the F2000 has a 15.7" barrel and does 30 damage, while the TAR-21 has an 18.1" does 40, I know the idea of damage as a numerical system like this isn't realistic in a lot of ways, but it's the best anyone has been able to come up with so far, and I wouldn't think 2.4 inches of barrel would make that much of a difference. Put it this way, out of the 9 assault rifles in that game there are only 3 different damages, the 30, 40, and 55, keep in mind that the calibres here are 5.56, 7.62, and 7.62 NATO: the M4, ACR, and F2000 do 30, the FAMAS, SCAR, TAR-21, M16A4, and AK-47 do the same (lol what?) at 40, and the FAL does a whopping 55 (because its semi). But the single worst is the UMP and Super V, both .45s with a comparible barrel length, the UMP does 40 (again) and the the Super V does... 25. I know there should be differences but this makes NO SENSE. Sorry, I know this is the Medal Of Honor page, but everyone here seems smarter... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:34, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not a simulator. They needed to differentiate gun's performance. Besides, most people playing it doesn't know shit which caliber it shoots. So probably it's better to just get over it. Try playing hardcore mode and weapon damage won't bother you so much.

I know :) it doesn't really matter too much, it would just be nice, but I'm not expecting it though lol [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:40, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

seriously, no 1911 very disapointing. it might be outdated but Special Forces still use them. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:11, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Who said there won't be a 1911 in the final game? This isn't the final game. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:45, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
i dont know. i just figured since its not on the page already they wouldnt have it. but i hope they do. its a great gun and is used by Spec Ops. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:46, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
i think that all the comparisons come from MW2 because it has an overwhelming amount of flaws. for example- what has been previously stated. and does anyone else find it peculiar that all assault rifles lose the front sight when optics are attached? knowone would do that its stupid. what if there was a long battle and you ran out of battery on a dime, nope your dead now. and i kind of agree with the lack of a back sight because it takes away the point of the reflex being quick if you have to line 3 things to a target instead of the 1-2 or a normal rifle.

==First Part==

This game looks very promising in terms of realism and graphics compared to the other games. I'm excited to see that the game developers are working with REAL special forces operators. The game comes out in Fall 2010. CAN'T FREAKIN WAIT!!!!!!- ArmoredMason619

I've always had a soft spot with this series. I really hope they knock it out of the park with this one.

I'm guessing the guy on the front cover is a Green Beret?-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

:For some reason I though the guy on the front page was a PMC --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Na he is a Green Beret. That's the way they look when they are in a combat zone. They have to grow out a beard and dress like the civilians/insurgents in that particular area.-ArmoredMason619

A World War II shooter series is switching to a modern setting? It'll never work.
:Your kidding right...and sign your posts --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The graphics appear to be on par with ''[[America's Army 3]]'', though hopefully it'll have less problems and a better weapon selection. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The trailer had what looked like an [[FN Minimi#M249-E1 / M249-E2 / M249 Paratrooper SAW|M249 SAW]] variant fitted with an EOTech red dot sight, but I only saw it for a second looking down the sights in first-person mode so couldn't determine wether it was a standard SAW or specialized version like the Paratrooper or [[FN Minimi#FN Minimi SPW|SPW]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I added a screen of the M4A1 and the Minimi/SAw possibilty. --[[User:TheCrazyGunNut|TheCrazyGunNut]]

Ah, cheap EA.. This is so obvious that they are doing this because of MW success. Won't buy just because of this fact.

Or because WWII has been overdone and they wanted to do something else. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

20th century saw so many wars. They could pick any one. The most suitable would be Vietnam war. I can't recall many good games about this conflict. It could be about SF also.

How about Vietcong? http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Vietcong In my personal oppinion the best PC game from Vietnam conflict up to date. I know that the Vietcong wasn't perfect but other games usually wasted their potential (e.g. Conflict Vietnam, Men of Valor) ended as a low quality budget (first Shellshock 67 and many others) or as some crazy VC/NVA-zombie kill fest (recent Shellshock 2).

I agree that there were many other "interesting" conflicts or suitable theathers for FPS games but "supply is influenced by demand". The "anti-terrorist" theme is actual and developers don't want to risk introducing a game that "nobody would want to play". Remember it's all about the money. Actually it's quite strange that if I look backwards I can't recall any good or partially realistic FPS from Afganistan or Iraq theatre - Modern Warefare, appart from other parts of the story, was set partialy in the Middle East but in some fictisious country (and that *** spoliler *** nuking of the whole Marine division *** spoiler *** was complete bullshit) and Modern Warefare 2 was about hunting down some crazy Russian ultranationalists (and *** spoiler *** one rouge American general *** spoiler *** that was bullshit as well). No offence to Call of Duty but I personally hope that Medal of Honor would not turn into such killfest of stupid AI NPC duchebags thrown in absolutely ridiculous waves into a single coridor where you have to kill more than 70 opponents on less than 100 square feet ...

:::Wow, so doing something original is bullshit? I mean, come on; I'd rather shoot 70 guys in a single cooridor than simply go from cave to cave, shooting the occasional militant, or riding about in my vehicle until I hit a bomb and get ambushed. Generic examples I know, but put simply, fighting a military-trained, fully-equipped soldier is a lot more exciting than some fanatical militant using 30-year-old weapons. Heck, even America's Army created a fictional enemy for the US Army to fight.

Judging by what I'm seeing in the trailer this is going to be far from any CoD style of modern warfare. This shit looks seriously hardcore in terms of trying to replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay. I guess only time will tell. Hopefully by then they fix the damn gas block thing. Fuck that pisses me off. These guys are working with tier 1 operators but they don't want to model the damn gun correctly. Anybody with even slight knowledge of an AR-15 platform would notice this error. It's a big frickin error.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:::"replicate actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay"? So coalition forces playing in a sandbox there? And duh, there is a gas-block, it's just too low-profile and you cannot see it.

::::Even if the gas block isn't there, does it really matter? The average gamer probably doesn't know, or care, what a gas block is, let alone whether it's actually there or not; and the Medal of Honor series goes for what looks cool (such as the Flak Tower in Airborne), not what's realistic.

Don't change the intent of my words. Let me rephrase :::"replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan fighting into gameplay." There happy? As well the use of a low profile gas block seems like an excuse. What are the chances that every M4 has a low profile gas block when there are attached optics?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:::Why not? It's a game about hi-speed low-drag tear1 omfgd3ltasealz special forces operators.
::::That's ''Tier'' 1. And even a low-profile gas block would still be visible on the barrel where the standard FSP would be due to the length of the gas tube. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

North American release date is October 12, 2010. Europe is October 15.-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFpgNJZ8Fhc&playnext_from=TL&videos=vd-xeQ7FyHw
^ At 0:56, 1:04, 1:16 you can see a stock, body, and barrel of a M14 EBR.
At O:43 you can see what I believe to be some kind of M240.*EDIT: Mk 46 Mod 0*
All along the trailer are M4s with optics and different accessories. -DeltaOp
:Was the Mark 14 EBR even fielded yet in 2002? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

- Nope. EBR was designed around that date - 2001/2002 but first units (mostly from Navy Seals) were issued this rifle later on in 2004. So it's probably another game inaccuracy.

Who said it was set in 2002? And the gas block isn't removed for optics like in Call Of Duty, it's removed when the M203's flip up sight is on top, I'm thinking it's not to block that, not that I think it would block it, but that's when it's not there, not because of optics. EDIT: Wow my bad, it is set then, and I was thinking the M203 was an attachment, but its fixed on like in BFBC2, wow, I feel dumb lol. EDIT #2: I figured it out, the M16 removes the front sight for optics, but the M4 doesn't. Odd. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

== Green Beret on cover ==
It's ''Cowboy''! [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/12/03/news-bearded-guy-on-medal-of-honor-cover-is-real.aspx] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:Lmao. Oh i didnt think of that one. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Anyone think its kinda odd that the Rangers seem to be doing alot of the work. along with the Green Beret. Wouldnt Delta Force/Navy SEALs be doing most of the stuff?

1st SFOD-D and Navy SEALs are, let's say, "equal" to Special Forces concerning their roles within US SOCOM. They are highly trained operators used for specific and "delicate" stuff. Rangers are more like muscless used for more "dirty" tasks. In reality, you would rather send a Special Forces A-Team to do cool things like - to recon the enemy airfield, to pin point potential high-value targets, to set observation post for calling CAS missions or to set sniping posts with 18B class operators with sniper rifles; while few C-130s packed with Ranger chalks would wait to "go-order" so they can jump in, do all the hard work and blow the enemy to pieces. Special Forces (Delta/SEALs etc.) are too valuable for such things. Even though, they are capable of kicking some serious ass, it is not practical to "mass" several A- or SEAL teams for a task, which bunch of Ranger squads could do better.[Ragnar]

okay thats true, but i just dont see why there wouldnt be SOME Operators or SEALs, think about this. Rangers are like the backbone of USSOCOM, Green Berets, are trained in Reconaissance, but if u want to kick some serious Taliban ass, u send in Operators or SEALs, because they excel at kickin' the door down, and opening up some whoop-ass. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:40, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
:Who is the "Operators"?
::Delta "Operators". [[User:Pz.Abt.100|Pz.Abt.100]] 22:40, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

but really, i no Delta is more of a mission specific unit, but seriously what is America's best military asset? 1stSFOD-D. why? because they have close to 500 Operators, the best in the world. and officially they dont exist. political bull shit in the way, no problemo. they dont exist. its denieble if you send them in.[[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 19:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

== Guns revealed in multi-player demo at E3 ==
(These are just what I could spot while watching it on TV)
*Beretta 92FS/M9 (not a 92SB like in CoD, had the squared-off trigger guard)
*Pump-action shotgun I couldn't identify (they only showed it from the back)
*Bolt-action sniper rifle, presumably a Remington M24 (only saw it from the back and right side as the player was working the bolt)
*Not actually a new gun, but the M4A1 also had a low-profile front BUIS mounted on the RIS is some scenes
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

If you check the kill feed immediately after the kill with the sniper rifle, the identifies the unknown rifle as a Sako M57. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I found some footage: http://videos.pcgames.de/v/MuuqC3iXMpw/Medal-of-Honor/Multiplayer-Gameplay-E3-2010/ (the shotgun is a TOZ-194)

More confirmed weapons. I recommend you keep your eye to the left of the screen, below the radar, to see some weapons we have missed while watching the video.

RPK-Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

RPG 7-In-game footage

AK-47-Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

AT-4 (I think by the ingame footage)

M9- From ingame footage

SVD Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M249 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

TT-30 Seen ingame

MP7A1 This one was very hard to see (Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M-21 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

870MCS Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M60 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

== List ==
I'm gonna put all the ones I've seen down, so we've got one big list (this is all from the 11 minute long multiplayer video, both seen on screen and on the killfeed) If the names are given (killfeed ones) I'm writing them exactly as they are named in game. For the ones that aren't named I'll name them what they are.

M16

M203

AK-47

GP-30

M249

PKM

M4

AKS-74u

870MCS

TOZ-194

AT4

RPG-7

M21

SVD (NOTE: Has a straight .308 magazine)

M24

SV-98

M9

MP-443 (NOTE: Appears as the Tariq, which I thought that was an Iraqi-made Beretta clone...)

(From here down is not in the Beta)

RPK

MP7A1

M240

M60

M14 EBR (Seen in other videos. It is NOT the same as the M21 like it is in certain other games, the M21 has a normal M21 type body and stock, BOTH are in this.) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==Spliting into sections ==
Wont it make sence to make two sections ? One with MP´s guns and one with SP´s guns. I think it will - because they dont use same engine, so guns can be different.

Why would the single player and multiplayer use different engines? That makes no sense. It would make the modelers have to model everything twice, and take up twice as much space on disc. No. We're not going to do that.-protoAuthor 19:35, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

: It '''USES''' different engines. MP is running on frostbite, and SP is running on UT3 one.

Not sure if i'm doing this right, but yes it uses different engines, and the modelers do not have to model everything twice, they can easily import it from a common format to both engine's formats, PSK Mesh (or something) for UT3, and a new version of bundledmesh contained in RES files for frostbite. You don't have to model it twice, you just export within both engines.

:It still makes no sense to split up the page. But thank you for enlightening me to something that still makes no sense to me. Why would they do that?-protoAuthor 16:54, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The only reason i could possibly see would be to make a comparable multiplayer experience for BFBC2 players, And they might have already started building singleplayer on the unreal engine, which most if not all of the previous MoH games used. In my opinion, it shouldn't be split either, means some firearms would be listed twice. btw this isn't the original poster, this is the guy from the post before proto's last.

: Ok than. It doesnt have to be split, but there should be atlest writed to each screenshot " This is from Multiplayer/ Singleplayer". And just one little '''BTW''': They modelled it twice. As you can see, M4 or MK46 '''''HAVE''''' different models.

That's because the M4 and Mk. 46 are different guns, silly.-protoAuthor 04:00, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Heh. I mean that M4 looks different in SP and MP. Same with Mk.46

They do look different but I think its just because one sets from that first trailer a while ago, game's graphics always get better as develpment keeps going, but you might be right to, I was just throwing that out there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:00, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== LMG Special Weapons ==

In the sniper class you get C4, in the special ops class you get a rocket, and with an assault rifle in the rifleman class you get a launcher... so what do you get if you equip an LMG? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:56, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

more ammo?

:Absolutely nothing. You have 2 spare 150 round mags (in the beta, with the PK).
::You have self-destruct vest.

Is that a joke or can you actually be a suicide bomber, cause what would the American gunners get? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:14, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:C4

It is then? Okay cool, I figured but I wasn't sure, I can't check because the 360 beta was delayed :( [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:37, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
== Best of 3 shooters? ==

I have to say, out of the 3 FPS games that will be coming out in Q4 (this one, Spec Ops: The Line, and CoD: Black Ops), I am looking forward to Medal of Honor the most. From what I've seen about the other two, they look like they're filled with sensationalist b.s. . -Any Mouse

:MoH looks WAY to much like Bad Company 2, and I think it's EAs fault. They want to capitalize on the modern warfare craze so much, they're using another popular series to boost sales. To be honest, MOH looks like BC2 with Taliban, and I'll most likely not be getting it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Medal of honor is not going to be way too much like BC2 because the gameplay will be much more tactical and realistic. Like real modern warfare.

:Says you man. Face it, it's going to be bought by the same type of people who buy MW2 and BC2, mostly idiot kids ranging from 10 to 15 who just wanna get four man sprays and noob tubes across the map. This is a console FPS that can be bought by anyone, and has nothing to offer that will make it overly unique, so it will end up like MW2 and BC2, noob weapons will arise, and it will just be another chaotic FPS. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:You got a point there.

Spec Ops: the Line is a third person shooter, not an FPS.

Sorry, my bad. I thought it was one of those deals like Fallout 3 where you could switch from first-to-third-person and back -Any Mouse

== Animations ==

I know this is off-topic, but am I the only one bothered by the way your character moves? If a gun is bouncing around in your hands while you move like that, there's gotta be something wrong...

I think that only happens in multiplayer due to it being a different engine, but yeah it is weird

I was really psyched about the game untill i found out it was made by the people who made BF-BD2. you said it was a different engine. does that mean that it will be different creators or what? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:04, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Mp is made by BC2 (''not BD2'' ) creators - DICE. So it means only good part on that game will be SP - developed by EA on UT3 engine.

== Full Auto M16A4 ==

Wouldn't having an M16A4 on full auto make it a C7A1? I know there are a few other differences, but they're all internal, it's the only difference visible in some way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:23, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

:Well I would have said M16A3, but those didn't have rails. So yes, the only M16 variant that has an RIS system and goes full-auto is the C7A2, so indeed this new game uses a C7. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::M16A4 with FA lower - what could be easier

:Personally, I wouldn't call "full-auto" M16A4 a C7A2. C7A2 has some, more or less significant, differences - e.g. ambidextrous fire selector or retractable stock. Plus Canadian military did not use full length RIS systems (e.g. like King Arms M5 on M16A4) on their C7s. Full-auto M16A4 is just another game-developer inaccuracy created by lack of knowledge about firearms. Unfortunately, it's a trend in nowadays mainstream FPS like Modern Warfare or Battlefield Bad Company. Game developers just give a sh*t about this stuff. 13-year-old kids screaming and b*tching in multiplayer would not notice the difference. [Ragnar]
:: 3-burst is for nubs that can't cut it by themselves.

::The M5 RAS on the M16A4 is made by KAC, not King Arms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:33, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Of course I realize that having it full auto is just a screw up, like in most movies, and I'm not talking about the C7A2, with the green furniture and ambi controls, I meant the C7A1, which is the same in terms of appearance. Here's one without an ELCAN, because I know someone will complain about that:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/7/76/20080716042205!C7A1_with_IronSights.JPG
Oh and you can put the KAC Rails on any M16-length AR, so that's not really an issue, some of the C7A1s (like the one pictured) had them put on before the C7A2 was introduced with the TRIAD. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:22, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:It could be a C7, but really, it's just EA's lack of knowledge about weapons, cause full auto is what every assault rifle shoots, right? Man, games like Call of Duty 4 tried their best to keep weapons accurate, now it's all about tacticool weapons that fire full auto and have cool sights and nice finishes. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah I know, and guns don't need to be re-chambered after they run empty too :p in this and Bad Company 2, it's kind of distracting when I'm playing to be honest, well, I've gotten used to it a little more by now. Okay what I don't get is why can't it be listed as a C7A1? Or at least mentioned... If there was an gun listed as an M4 (not A1) and it was firing full auto you guys would have no problem saying it's actually an M4A1, or an AK-47 is really an AKM, so why can't the M16 really be a C7? I realize it's just a mistake on the developer's part, but that doesn't stop us pointing out the other ones... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:56, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think it would be a good idea if we mentioned that in reality, this would class it as a C7A1 etc. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 18:26, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Has there even ever been any instances of a burst-firing M4 used in any movie or video game? At any rate, I think just noting that it's inaccurately portrayed as full auto is enough. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:43, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well if you talk to the Green Beret on Deadliest Warrior, he'll tell you the M4 can go burst AND full auto! But yeah, just classify the M16 in MOH as a C7A1, cause in reality that's what it is. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/1009334.page
Best 5 minutes of my life reading this! [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:01, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

''Well if you talk to the Green Beret on Deadliest Warrior, he'll tell you the M4 can go burst AND full auto!'' - Believe it or not, 4-position selectors for AR-15 type rifles exist. There should be a link to the patent in the Season 2 discussion. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 22:44, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

The so-called "Green Berets" on that show were idiot actors who didn't do their research, so I don't really give a crap about what they say. The M4A1 as used by the US military is safe/semi/auto, no burst. 4-pos selectors may exist, but the US military does not use them. That also wasn't an answer my question. ''Have there ever been any instances of a burst-firing M4 used in any movie or video game?'' By "burst-firing M4", I mean the M4 with M16A2/A4 trigger group as issued en mass to regular US Army troops. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I only know of two games that have M4s with the A2/A4 trigger group. There's one of the Call of Duty Modern Warfare games for the Nintendo DS, and then there's the Battlefield 2 mod [[Project Reality]], where it features both burst-firing M4s for the Americans and full-auto M4A1s for the Israelis.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:58, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Thank you, that ''did'' answer my question. Also, lol @the thread on EA Forums. That was a pretty entertaining read. Though I quite disagree with the guy who claims you can't know anything about an M16 or other firearm without having handled or used one. I've never handled an M16, but I still know the difference between an A1, A2, A3, and A4. Good thing I quit bothering with that place within the first few days I registered, otherwise I'd probably be ankle-deep in that ****storm. XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:52, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
:::To Hoot471, that forum nearly gave me a headsplosion, how can people be so unbelievably ignorant and stupid?! - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Hi-Def MP videos ==

You guys might want to check this out: On YouTube, there's someone by the name of deluxe345 who has Hi-Definition videos from the Medal of Honor multiplayer (there are 3 or 4). Also, in one of these videos, I spotted an M224 mortar in the killfeed.

==360 Beta?==
Alright, does anyone on Earth have a clue when the 360 beta for this comes out!? PS3 and PC went up June 21st, and yet 360 is still delayed, anyone got a clue? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I got deployed for deepwater horizon so no vid games till september. I seriously wish that the release had been on time, I could have played it.

==Clip/Magazine==
A frivolous debate, but why oh why must they call the magazines "clips" in the game? Yuck. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I don't know why, but the same error happened in an episode in Lois & Clark. They probably got confused with clips and magazines since that they are both similar. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 19:02, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

There is nothing similar between a clip and a magazine. A Magazine is a block that stores the bullets, a clip is a strip of metal that holds the bullets that are then FED into a Magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:44, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

They could have said the slang term "mag" though.

=="The Catalyst" Linkin Park song trailer==

Well, there gave been some new guns spotted and i already identified few of them. But can someone help me with this ?
[[Image:MOHUNKNOWNGUN.JPG|500px|thumb|center|]]

Magazine seems to wide and big for 5.56. I truly need help with this.

Could it be the 417 ?

:Why is it that people immediatly assume a HK 416 or a HK 417 when it comes to this kind of thing? People apparently have never heard of a AR 10 before.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the MP5 is shown at one point in the trailer. I'd have to look at the trailer again to find the exact point, but I'll update when I do find the time stamp. Lets hope we see the MP5 in multiplayer as well as the campaign if my spot is correct. Also, I'm pretty sure the picture shown above is just the M4A1, but I'm not 100%. --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 22:33, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
1:30 seconds in, on the operator's chest. I am pretty sure that's an MP5A3 or A5. Can anyone confirm? --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 23:22, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:That's M4 or might be h&k 416. Clip is just taped. Also, all this specop theme became too popularized after MW1. Don't like.
::It's called a Magazine or Mag. Don't like [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
:::After re-watching the video for the 17th or so time, the weapon I thought was the MP5 was just an MP7 that blended a little too well into the vest. That said, I did notice that one of the Rangers in the trailer was using an Aimpoint M68 (Comp M2) sight on his M4A1. Possibly another sight option? Who knows. I just know I'm excited for this game.

It's an M4 kitted out with an EOTech 552, KAC Free-Float RAS, PEQ-2A, and KAC broomstick. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

According to the Walkthrough trailor for the first mission this is CQB-R verzion of the M4A1.

==Unimpressed....==

Anybody else feel unimpressed looking at this game? I mean, nothing about it really stands out to me. The firearm selection is trite and cliche, the modern military tacticool spec ops motif has been done far too much, and so has the idea of weapon customization. Honestly, when I saw this game I just kinda yawned and moved on. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 19:22, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
: About that firearms choose : So you would give terrorists XM8´s, just because its cliche in video games ? No. So why not give them weapons they use in real ?
: No I wouldn't, unless a terrorist militia could plausibly get it hand's on a bunch of HK weapons. I'm just sort of sick of seeing the same stuff over and over and over. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 09:15, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:I actually see this as a good change from Modern Warfare and Bad Company rather than yet another tacticool game. Sure, most of it has been done, but so has most other games. At least its not YET another World War 2 sim.--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 20:41, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

But see, that's the whole thing. Instead of "yet another WW2 sim," it's become "yet another Spec Ops shooter." And for the record, I liked Bad Company, and I don't see how this will be any different. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 23:30, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

I am truly impressed with this game. Lets talk about it as MW2 on steroids :

:'''Much more realistic''' ('' Cmon, Russians with tavors and milita with tactical AK´s ?'' )

:'''Much better atmosphere''' ( ''That attempt to make everything cool just failed. Also enviroment wasnt the best seriously'' )

:'''Better Gameplay''' ( ''It probably wont be just about shooting thousands of enemy troops. Also helicopter. Probably even some AI will be included ?'' )

Then I better get this for my 360 then PC, cause the graphics are just as high as BC 2 so it'll mess with my PC. The Multiplayer was designed by the same guys who did Bad Company, so we see a lot of their handy work. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:42, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, comparing ANYTHING to MW2 instantly makes it better. And if what excalibur says is true, then I'm inclined to go with what everybody else has been saying and write it off as Bad Company 2 with Taliban. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 11:07, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
: We are talking about SP. MP will be BC2 clone ( ''Yeah. Same people are doing it, why not then ?'' ).. But SP will be better :P

Heavily looking forward to SP. MP might as well be called "Call of Duty: Bad Company 8".

Oh yeah, I'd certainly be willing to try the single player if it looks any good. Not sure if I'd pay full release price for it though, I'll probably go out and buy it later on when it gets down to like 40 bucks. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 14:27, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I just find it odd that they'd get a completely different group to do the multiplayer and when you look at the multiplayer, it feels like MW2 but with a different game engine. The point and level up system is essentially the same, but the classes are almost the same from Bad Company. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:29, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, I had high hopes for this game, but with the "Catalyst" trailer (overly dramatic acting plus ear-bleeding Linkin Park= FAIL), it just looks like something else that fanboys will be able to wax their carrots to. Ain't no way in hell I'm shelling out $60 just to hear some USI-infested teenager (whose gamertag is [USMC]"xxSwaggaSniperxx" or something else that sounds mall ninja-ish) cuss me out after I've killed him twice in a row.[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]]

I watched said trailer and completely gave up on this game. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 09:12, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. After this, we're gonna hear a bunch of kids running around yelling "yaaah I am teh Tier 1!" Methinks that some top dog at EA got a boner after reading Sean Naylor's ''Not a Good Day to Die'' and got the idea to rehash a great book and dumb it down into a cheap vidya game.[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 22:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Everyone, this is a video game. Nobody cares how realistic or how the story is, if you can shoot thing and take control of an over exaggeration of our armed forces, then people will buy it no matter what; it sells.

We care! Unrealistic video games do not bother us, but a video game that is suppose to be realistic and ends up not being realistic does bother us. This is IMFDB, we are suppose to judge how realistic weapons are in media. The SkinnyWhiteGuy from the RE: Extinction discussion.
:The reason why the multiplayer part is so similar to Battlefield: Bad Company is that DICE (the creator of the Battlefield series) created the multiplayer part while EA did the singleplayer part. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 12:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
::Well yeah, if you've seen any of the trailers or behind the scenes, the EA guys tell you that. IT is still weird that they got DICE doing the multiplayer and an unknown company called "Danger Close" using the Unreal 3 Engine for the singleplayer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:55, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov ==
Where did it come from that the NDM-86 is in 7.62x51mm? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:16, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
: Oh, wait, what ?
::Look at the mag in the weapon selection screen shot. It's clearly not the Dragunov's standard mag and a straight 7.62x51mm mag. I agree with whoever did the change that it's the NDM-86. --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 13:16, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, i have done it. And it doesnt have anything to do with 7.62x51, its actually standart .308 winchester. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Last I checked, the .308 was the civilian version of the 7.62 NATO. So in other words, it's the same round for the purposes of this discussion. Don't mean to sound rude or anything, just something to think about. --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 14:32, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: ( ''Wow, so many "''':'''" symbols'' ) Well, .308 is more powerfull i think. But whatever - Im glad someone agrees that NDM-86 is there. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:37, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::It's the same basic round, 7.62 NATO is just loaded to a higher pressure than civilian .308, I think. But I now see what you mean about the mag. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of Soviet-bloc weapons, whoever labeled the AK-47 as a "Type 56" may want to check the picture where the player is looking down the sights (Hint: the front sight is not fully enclosed)
: I just renamed SVD. Type 56 is someone else´s job. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Why is the AK labeled a Type 56? it has a open sight and no pig-sticker. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:49, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Reverted it back to AK-47. I'd like to hear the explanation as to why it was changed in the first place. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Granted there are lots of Type 56 rifles in the middle east because of the CIA, but this gun just isn't.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ugh...==

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38740099/ns/technology_and_science-games/

words cannot describe how incredibly stupid I think this is. Nobody makes a big fuss when the Taliban is put in a movie, but the SECOND people even THINK of putting it in a VIDEO GAME... I admit, I do see how people could take this the wrong way, but seriously... it's just a game. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 19:48, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

We have 'American soldiers' dying in games like Modern Warfare 2 and BC2, but no one raises a fuss. Deal with it, news outlets. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

God forbid our enemy get slandered in a video game!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:40, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

thats more political bull shit. i dont know a person in america who likes the taliban. its a game. playing as the taliban doesnt mean you like their "self-righteous" and stupid anti-american ideas. thats like saying because your playing as Spetznaz in MW2 that your being insensitive. people care when you play as talibans. but dont even mention "No Russian" [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 20:54, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Wait, they don't make bad press articles about Grand Theft Auto 4 when that came out and sold millions, but when it comes to a game based on real soldiers, games have crossed the line? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:46, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

It gets worse than that on this side of the water; the British Defence Secretary has called for the game to be '''banned'''.
[http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100822/ttc-fox-urges-ban-on-taliban-video-game-e1d36ba.html Seriously.]
[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:42, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

'''JESUS''' Didnt you play as insurgent in MW ? Didnt you control nazi plane in all those WW flying simulators ? They are crazy. Right now, im glad that politicans are stupid in my country. Seriously, they dont even know about some MoH.

It's shocking that someone would think it acceptable to recreate the acts of the Taliban. At the hands of the Taliban, children have lost fathers and wives have lost husbands.

^^ No kidding? Same with the Nazis, and yet it's perfectly ok to play as them. There's nothing I hate more than double fucking standards. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 14:31, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

"I am disgusted and angry. It's hard to believe any citizen of our country would wish to buy such a thoroughly un-British game. I would urge retailers to show their support for our armed forces and ban this tasteless product."
Let's get something straight here. I have played as Russian Spetsnaz, killing American and British soldiers. I have played as Japanese soldiers, killing American infantry. I have played as THE NAZIS, for god's sake, who not only killed Americans and British soldiers but also took part in the wholesale slaughter of the Jewish people. I have played as a Russian terrorist and mowed down an AIRPORT full of defenseless people, I have played as a drug dealing criminal with the option to kill innocents, a hitman with the option to brutally kill my targets, and yet if I get the option to play as a bunch of fucking towelheads, the game is an affront to humanity and needs to be BANNED? People need to wake the fuck up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 14:26, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

It is beginning to smack of controversy for controversy's sake. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:41, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

And now it's made its way across the pond: [http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/111/1117837p1.html] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103328-Jack-Thompson-Vows-to-Stop-Medal-of-Honor Guess who's jumped on the bandwagon and demonstrated a mile of research-fail in the process?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:01, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

"the high level of realism makes it an effective training tool for the Taliban and other forces currently engaged with the U.S. military."
>because the Taliban only uses lefty configured guns, and they happen to have ALL the next gen consoles in their holes. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 19:57, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

This just in; EA may or may not have caved over the issue: [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103941-EA-Cuts-Taliban-From-Medal-of-Honor Clicky!] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:44, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

:They caved. It's now OpFor in MultiPlayer only. So far I haven't seen anything that says it'll be changed for the single player campaign. --[[Special:Contributions/204.13.134.230|204.13.134.230]] 18:22, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Im not saying its right. by all means believe me. but its because its a hot issue. its going on now. you talk about Vietnam vets who "killed babies" no1 cares anymore. knowone cares about the brutality of or probably even knows about Somalia, Sierre Leone, Bosnia. Its because the Taliban are current. they are as we speak attempting, and trying their best, to kill American and British troops. thats why the press and dumb ass politicians think its a big deal. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:00, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== CONFIRMED new Weapons? ==

This Gameplay is from Gamescom 2010. This footage confirms the F2000 , the P90 , And others (pleae watch the killfeed, VERY Closely to see the names

http://www.gamepro.com/video/gameplay/146685/medal-of-honor-gc2010-cam-gameplay/

I got two screens, one confirming weapon customization (Thankgod maybe no Gl's on all assault rifles :'] ) and one of the F2000 WITH Correct Grenade Launcher fitting (Removed handgaurd for placement)
I will post more screens when i get them! I need Embedding help so if i post the links is that ok?

http://i33.tinypic.com/359zs06.png
&
http://i34.tinypic.com/e5fogo.png
[[User:WhatARandomer|WhatARandomer]] 08:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

In the killfeed, there is two weapons tht are unknown to most people one is called Axe (whether we get Custom Melee weapons is uncertain) and the other is HG No full name just an abbrieviation of HG.

I recall someone mentioning that the axe was the Taliban's equivalent of the knife for multiplayer. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:03, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, the dirks use a hachet instead of a knife in the beta, kinda funny. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:01, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

HG could be short for hand granade

Hmm could be, but I think Grenades on the killfeed appear as either GRENADE or an explosion/grenade symbol, ill rewatch the video(s) and look for any indication that HG is something other than a Hand Grenade [[User:WhatARandomer|WhatARandomer]] 12:50, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Updated the page with weapons seen in the new MP trailer. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:15, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

==Games in Steven Speilberg category?==
Should we put all of the MoH games into the Steven Speilberg category as he's the creator of the series? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 23:11, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Well are there any credits for Speilberg having a hand in THIS Medal of Honor game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:09, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:Wikipedia just says that he's the creator of the series, not a designer of the series. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Sure, but did he have a hand in this one? Just because he created the series, doesn't mean he's been behind the entire series up to now. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==Graphical Engine for the game==
I was watching a video on Medal of Honor and it stated that the single-player campaign is using the Unreal 3 Engine and the multiplayer will be using the Frostbite Engine (made famous by Bad Company). Just thought you guys would like to know! [[User:SeanWolf]]

This doesn't make sense. Why make the singleplayer with one engine and use a completely different engine for multiplayer? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:21, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:Old news, buddy. Maybe you should change your username to SeanSlowpoke. I keed, but not much.-protoAuthor 02:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
:Hey dont blame me..i just found out about that when i was watching a video about the game. Plus, i usually dont hear about video game news until the day after, so yeah. But still, yeah it doesnt make sense to use two different graphical engines for the game but who knows... [[User:SeanWolf]]

The reason for this is EA: LA are incharge of Singleplayer, and DICE are incharge of multiplayer, both using engines they're familiar with. [[User:WhatARandomer|WhatARandomer]] 08:05, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==SR25/M110?==
I found this picture on IGN: http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/37294/medal-of-honor-2010/images/medal-of-honor-20100915112209436.html
Anyone want to confirm or deny? -Chris_Hun7er 2:32, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
:Why yes, yes it is.[[Special:Contributions/99.141.250.128|99.141.250.128]] 01:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
::It looks an M110 SASS. --[[User:Pz.Abt.100|Kilo 1-1]] 16:21, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::Could be an SR-25 depending on what year this took place, the M110 might not have been out at the time and it is technically the same weapon system. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:46, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

==Getting screenshots==
Hey, anyone figure out how to take screenshots in the PC version? I'm trying to get pics to replace the existing ones for the AK-47, SVD clone, and the M21. Print-screen doesn't seem to be the right key. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:57, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Download "FRAPS" or some similar utility, and use that instead. Print Screen doesn't generally work in games I'm afraid.--[[Special:Contributions/94.168.169.251|94.168.169.251]] 05:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the hint. I just uploaded a few of my own screens for the PKM and the NDM-86. EDIT: Am I the only BETA player here that's updating this page? There's gotta be at least thousands of players out there in the beta right now. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 23:42, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Didnt the beta end?

It should ending some time today. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:51, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Hashiriya if you plan on getting it for computer and want screen shots you should no that xfire (find it at www.xfire.com) allows you to talk and chat ingame and also take screenshots and videoos. its free and easy. it doesnt take much memory and if you want to try it as i said tis free and i believe its scroll lock x or s to take a screen pic.

AK-47 in Campaign seems to be AMD-65 ==

Hey, If you watch this guy's single player videos he eventually picks up and AK in vid 12[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKPRn75kD-Y&feature=watch_response]. This 'AK-47' is an AMD-65. Take a look.

: Holeeey amazing sh*t. Random AK variants under AK47 ? This game is awesome.

The AKs in single-player are a mish-mash of actual AK parts. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:53, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== SR25? ==

I found this in the 'Friends from afar' tralier, is this the SR25? -GunGunGun

http://www.imfdb.org/images/0/0a/SR25%3F.jpg

I think it's M110 but because the M110 entered service in 2008 and the game take place in 2001-2002, it's supposed to be the SR-25 with desert camouflage. If you didn't noticed, someone else posted a comment about it, but it's OK. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 16:28, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh its OK is it? thanks! your very kind! --[[User:GunGunGun|GunGunGun]] 18:56, 11 October 2010 (GMT)

Well when does this game take place? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:06, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

The game takes place between 2001 and 2002; during the first days of the invasion to Afghanistan and during "Operation Anaconda" when the United States, NATO, non NATO and allied Afghanistan forces worked together to take down the Taliban and Al-Qaeda terror organizations and to kill/capture Osama Bin-Laden... This operation was mainly based around special operations units which we are going to play them in-game (Rangers, Special Forces and if I'm not mistaken, Navy SEALs too). As I said about the weapon: Because the game takes place around 2001 and/or 2002, it is supposed to be the SR-25 as it was issued since the '90 and the M110 only has been issued from 2008. But, because it's a game, the developers don't really mind about the '''exact''' weapons that was supposed to be used during this events. Let's take for example the MP7A1: It has been produced from 2001, but it wasn't issued in the United States nor other countries during the events of the game, but the way I see it, because it was produced from 2001 and the game takes place in 2001, so the developers decided to put the MP7A1 in even so it's not issued. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:00, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah- But still better than Black Ops with 2001 FAMAS in Vietnam.

::The MP7 may not have been issued during that timeframe but that doesn't mean it wasn't specifically requested by SOCOM units. [[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 02:08, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Well by all technicality, the M110 and the SR-25 are the exact same rifle with very minor differences [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

My understanding that the games events take place during the first three years of the war.--[[Special:Contributions/81.96.200.164|81.96.200.164]] 01:32, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

So technically unless it is stated, this rifle should be called the SR-25 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:34, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Mechanically, I don't think there's ''any'' difference between the SR25 and M110. The M110 is only distinguished by its URX rail system (which newer SR25s come with today anyway) and it's length-of-pull adjustable stock (which the rifle in-game doesn't have). I agree, it should be listed as an SR25. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

== Switching modes of fire ==

Watched the First Hour on Gametrailers.com and it showed you can changed the fire mode for a weapon from semi to full auto on the fly. This is awesome [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:38, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Yep. All you do is simply tap the Right D-pad key and watch the bullet icon change. I did this accidentally to myself and wondered why my M4 had gone from rock n' roll to single shot. [[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 03:48, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It's awesome. I used to lightly pull the trigger for accurate single shot and now I dont have to anymore. It feels like Rainbow Six's system. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:50, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

No fire selector on AKs, though (at least in SP). :( [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

== M203, AK, and Dragunov ==
*The M203 in-game is actually a Cobray CM203 distinguished by it's square trigger guard. It also seems to have an M16-type safety/selector lever on the left side of the receiver (scratches head at that one).
*There are at least two other AKs appearing in SP and both appear to be AMD-65s, but one is a basic run of the mill AMD while the other seems to have a perforated handguard of some kind.
*I don't know about MP (haven't played yet), but the Dragunov appearing in SP is most definitely the 7.62x54R version by the magazine.

[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

:Very much disappointed at the M203 performance, at least in SP, the range is awful and you have to hit a taliban to do some damage. MP (open beta) the range is better but grenades etc. are extremely low powered. Bullet penetration was pretty good, .223 didn't do much and 7.62x39 & x51 got kills through the Chinook wreck easy, recoil was perfect and you'd get more points playing the objective over camping for kills. MP was good and SP pretty much sucked, the only good parts in SP included a SOFLAM and some serious CAS. Chopper gunner mission was nice but the tactical situation was a bit weird, too close to the enemy for comfort. You shouldn't need to be hovering within 50 meters over the enemy when gunning in an Apache. --[[User:JEESUS|JEESUS]] 03:41, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

We've already ID'd the MP Dragunov as a Norinco clone in .308, but thanks for the info on the SP one. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:02, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Hey werc, why does the SP image for the G3 say 30+1 rounds in the weapon?--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:28, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

One in the chamber, I'd assume --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:57, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

That wasn't my point >_>. Why does it even have anything MORE than 20+1? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 18:43, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe to balance out the power they put a 20 round mag. like MW2 with the SCAR-H in MP or the FAL. or the G3 in CoD4.

Well we have a SIG 226 with 18 rounds (probably 17 round mecgar mags), a glock 19, and a m92FS in single player, the glock and beretta both at 15, whats multiplayer got, 12 round everything for "balance" since theyre so worried about people wrecking with a pistol or some crap?

Going off topic for a bit. My impressions from SP in the PS3 version with CQB controls:

1. PS3 controller sticks don't provide the resistance I'm used to.

2. Pistols fire really fast and reload real fast.

3. Lean in a console game? Interesting. I can't wait to try it for PC.

4. You can knife real fast. You can stab someone AT LEAST 3 times before they hit the ground.

--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:31, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Dang, fail on my part, can't believe I forgot the G3 had a 20 round capacity >:O --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:59, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, I just played the PC version last night. A friend of mine had it and let me borrow it so I've only played the single player but not multiplayer. I finished it in 4 hours dying 8 times, 6 of them at the last section of the final mission thanks to endlessly respawning enemies. Honestly, I cleared out this little niche behind a rock, then got hit from behind. Turns out that the spot I had moved to was a place where they enemies would keep respawning. I saw one respawning as I blew the head off (literally) of another guy with a shotgun. And they need to do something about the enemy skins, as they blend into the background. Not on purpose like camouflage, more like they did it by accident by making a guy's shirt have the same texture as a rock, even though the colors are completely different. A.I. was a joke. Instead of having the allies dynamically find cover based on the terrain and location of bad guys (like Modern Warfare/MW2 and Mass Effect 2), they went to pre-chosen positions and got in your way. And I know why they let you have the 203 only on the last mission, it's caused it sucked. They apparently used bunny farts as propellant. Also, who the hell maps the switch from rifle to 203 on the left arrow key. THE LEFT ARROW KEY!! For console players that's like mapping it to a second controller. Had to map the secondary button slot to v cause I was afraid it would mess something up if I changed the primary button. And they mapped the selector to the middle mouse button and melee to x rather than, you know, the other way around. I also hate that pushing left ctrl while crouching gets you to stand up instead of going prone which you accomplish by HOLDING DOWN left ctrl. And you pickup guns by HOLDING DOWN 'f', instead of making f context sensitive. And a Ranger can carry up to 20 grenades, yet a special forces operator can only carry 3. Mind you, there was no ballistics for them so where they landed was a random guess, making them useless even without factoring the length of time it takes to throw one and it's fuse length (both unnecessarily long). The game had absoloutley no ballistics, point at a Target 1000 meters away with a .50 cal and they die without needing to adjust for distance, even when your elevation is below them, only need to account for bullet travel time which seemed arbitrary to me. Even with no ballistics, you would think the first shot would go on target, even when firing on full auto. Nope. The helicopter segment had a few interesting parts, mostly the TADS system and the Hunter Killer Mode, while the ATV section was a joke. It felt like I was riding a hovercraft over a beach instead of a four-wheeler over rough terrain. Also, the other gimmick they had was sliding to cover which I did not use at all, since it would require holding down Shift+W+Left Ctrl. I have a feeling someone spent 30 seconds figuring out where to map the buttons to and then left. At least they had the option to have sights on a toggle or switch, and leaning is mapped to 'q' and 'e' so they didn't mess that up. Anyways, in SP there were only 2 memorable points, the ending of the first Ranger mission (of which there are only two), and at the ending of the game. Overall, a very poor SP experience that did not make me want to purchase it. Sorry if I ranted for a bit, but I was looking forward to this game. Feel free to delete this part if you guys think it doesn't belong here or to move it somewhere else. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 20:06, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

== Page Split ==
Having played quite a bit of both campaign and multiplayer, I'm going to suggest we make two seperate articles for this game, as it it pretty much two different games bundled onto one disc. There are so many differences, including the weapons, correctness of the weapons, reloads, attachments, and overall realism that they really need to be split up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:53, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

: Current stance is just OK. Having SP and MP category in each weap seems liek good solution :) And two pages would be pretty messy.

== MoH uses China Airsoft Aimpoint ==

Anyone notice - while the original Swedish Aimpoint only has a red dot in various brightness settings on a Red dot, the one used in Medal of Honor are clearly a China Clone with Red and Green Dot.

: Well, still better than Black Ops with its Romanian AK´s in hands of both Vietcong and Russian army or FAMAS from 2001 in Vietnam.
::They model the guns pretty much off of just airsoft guns. They buy the expensive ones in which I still don't understand why they don't just buy real ones,Alot of times the airsoft guns are the same price as the real ons.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:27, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

== SAW ==
Is that a magazine well beneath the ammo belt on the SAW in those pics? Wouldn't that make it an M249 rather than a Mark 46? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== M60E3 or M60E4? ==

Hello, everyone!
Just curiosity: why is it a M60E3, not an E4?
Thanks!

==Some corrections==
I've noticed the page has a few guns misidentified, some possibily due to anonymous users making all-wise changes. The SIG P226 used by Rabbit is the newer model P226R, you can see the rail under the frame. The MK 46 is an M249 like it's identified in SP, the magazine well under the belt feed is the indicator, as the MK 46 isn't fed by box magazines. The M60E3 appears to be an M60E4, the barrel is rather short, and it has the rail and removeable foregrip, so I believe it's the M60E4/Mk. 43 Mod 1. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:And some dumbass comments here and there. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]
The Glock is a 17, not a 19. The picture needs to be changed but I don't know how.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:25, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
::It is a Glock 19, as the magazine capacity is only 15 rounds, which is the standard (flush) magazine capacity for a Glock 19. Additionally, Glock 19s are commonly carried by AFO personnel. They quite often receive non-standard weaponry (such as the HK-416 and others such weapons) because it is more important that what they have work under the most extreme conditions and due to their elite status, they are given more leeway in their loadouts. Look closly next time you see some SOF personnel in the media or whereever you might catch a glimpse (espiecially SFOD-D) and you will see they are packing more unique equipment then your normal soldier or Marine, including Glocks.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 23:48, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
:: YOu are correct. I just examined the screen shots in the article and that is a Glock 17, however, the mag capacity is still that of a Glock 19. Wierd that they would go through the trouble of doing a decent model of the firearm and then screw up on the mag capacity, but I guess it is just bad research. I added a small section stating a boiled down version of what I stated here in the article so that it may be noted.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 23:53, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

How is it not a Glock 22 then? I've seen them with tan frames...

== Mk.18 variant ==

The Mk.18 variant in the game is actually a Mod.1. You can tell by the free-floating rails and the forward, folding BUIS. This is indicative of the Mod.1 variant, as it does not have the front sight mounted on the gas block.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 23:43, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not so sure; the RIS looks like the normal KAC RIS used on the Mod.0, and aftermarket gasblocks with integrated folding iron sights aren't exactly rare.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Nope, it has a KAC RIS, making it a Mod ''0''. The FSB is just replaced by a low-profile gas block which can be seen in-game by dropping the weapon and taking a close look at it. The BUIS is mounted on the RIS. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:03, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
: More specifically, it looks like the gas block is one of [http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=sb105c&cat=155&page=1&search=&since=&status= these], or something similar.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

An interesting little tidbit I've noticed regarding Rabbit's Mark 18 and M4. When viewed in his hands during use, both have the same gas block and rail-mounted front BUIS. When dropped and looked at on the ground, the Mark 18 retains these modifications. But when you drop the M4, the gas block and BUIS are replaced with a standard FSB. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:13, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

== Got a copy of this on the cheap, and noticing silliness... ==

For a start, the PKM has a dust cover that moves but has nothing underneath it; no ejection port, just the side of the gun. But more obviously, if you've got this, play the mission with the AC130 Reaper 31 in it and watch Reaper carefully after it completes it's run. The AC-130 model is clearly only a few hundred yards from the player and about the size of a car. Yay, air support from toy planes! [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:04, 9 March 2011 (MSK)

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2011-01-31T23:22:48Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Nelson's M60 */

== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

::::: I believe it was because he was firing his M14 until it ran out of ammo, and then using a helo crew member's M16 before retreating to reload both rifles.:::

:::- Yes, that's the case. Gordon is also seen dropping his CAR-15 when it's empty and using his 1911. Later, when Shughart is killed, he fires the M14 'til it's empty, then switching to his 1911, and when that is empty, using an MP5 from the chopper. Hell, they're being overwhelmed, and it is quicker to pick up and and shoot another weapon that is ready than reload the present one. They were pretty much using whatever they could trying their damndest to fend an army off, I would think that was obvious. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I did read Mike Durant's book and would like to point out he referred to Randy's weapon as a High-Tech rifle. as we all no, it was a vietnam era M14. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 21:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:I just stared reading Durant's "In the Company of Heroes" before he called it a "German piece of crap", he said the MP5 had shot fine at the range but he probably had neglected to clean it. It was after Shughart gave him Gordon's CAR-15 which didn't jam and was far more effective despite only having half a mag left he thought of the MP5 as a piece of shit. He also had an M9 that he never drew, which he said probably saved his life since he wasn't seen as a threat. While Shughart's M14 isn't really a "High-Tech rifle" it was a lot better than a bolt-gun in the situation he was in. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:52, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

'''Don't forget about the 10th Mountain and the U.N Soldiers. Whoever created this page missed them completly and they had alot of firearms. Whats omore is i can't for some reason edit the page. the autheor needs to fix this right away'''

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::I'm fairly certain this convo is referring to the later M4 with detachable carry handle. That's why I mentioned the 727 having an A2 upper. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:44, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

All gear that is used in the US Army has to be tested. Part of this testing cycle is to give it to SF, Rangers, Delta, etc. to field it before it is approved for widespread use. Considering the length of trials and the endless bureaucracy in the DoD, it is completely plausible that these guys had the first generation of the M4 in TFR/OGS. I saw a SCAR in the wild on my latest deployment to Afghanistan last year. These guys are like the pro athletes of the military world. All sorts of manufacturers will just give them gear to use in order to try to get them to reccomend it... Optics, armor, boots, gun accessories, etc...

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.

== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v
:Not to mention a flashlight beam in that environment would scream, "here I am, shoot me!" [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

That's Jeremy Piven, nowadays best known for playing Ari Gold on HBO's Entourage. Wikipedia says he played CFO Clifton Wolcott.

:I do not think it Piven. In the film he plays a pilot role and his hair is black.
http://files.haiguinet.com/flashupload/UploadedFiles/1252005569_159Jeremy_Piven.jpg
http://emsworth.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jeremy-piven-in-black-hawk-down-2.jpg
When I put the photos on the page, before to name him "delta actor", I looked for the name of this guy in the entire cast. Unsuccessfully. I think it is a stunt.--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

::Flight gloves, as I just fucking explained, are not restrictive or obstructive in the slightest.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

:::- ''Uh, I had replied below I didn't know about these gloves specifically, which you seem to have failed to notice. Just as you also seem to have failed to notice that all these comments you posted this slightly irritable and unnecessary response in-between were all posted '''days ago'''. It might help if you thoroughly read the comments and check the dates next time.'' [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Flight gloves are a very thin layer of Nomex with a Clarino palm and finger overlaid. These are very light, wick sweat, and give you tactile feeling and the ability to perform tasks as though you were bare handed. They are maybe a few mm thick on the palms, and do not affect in any way your shooting ability or accuracy, even whilst firing an M249, which is notorious for running away due to gloves getting stuck and holding the trigger back.

==Discussion about the bullets, or something==
- Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Geneva convention forbids hollow point ammo in the military. The Police of the nation is a different subject. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:You're thinking of the Hague Convention of 1899, not the Geneva Convention.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was the GC or HC and didn't really care to look it up at the moment.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Hague banned all use of ammunition that easily expands or flattens in a human target. I have no exact idea of what round is being used or how it gets around the HC, I only know that when asked about the effectiveness of 5.56 ammunition, a few SF guys made mention that have been issued a new "expanding" round. I have also heard that Marines are now being issued an expanding type round. It may be that since we are not actually fighting an official "military force" that the HC and GC do not apply. Also you must remember that the use of .50 cal against personnel is banned too, how often do you think that is observed?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not saying we follow either conventions to a T in every war, I'm just echoing what I heard from a man who was there. A lot of people who lived through the battle of mogadishu came away with the feeling that Bill Clinton cared more about how headlines would look than he did about the safety of our soldiers. As for HC and GC not applying, I agree that they really don't apply to A) organizations that are not militaries but instead ragtag terrorist groups and B) hail from nations that didn't exist at the time of the convention and never signed a similar document. It's the same argument that was applied for the waterboarding of captured terrorists; apparently, they apply some standards to those who didn't sign, but not others. Personally, I think that terrorist groups and undeveloped countries where they never signed the conventions shouldn't get the protection of them, and we really need to invest into expanding ammunitions for everyone; AP doesn't make sense for unarmored targets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The question about observing the laws was rhetorical in nature. But I agree wholeheartedly about what you say pertaining to the HC and GC applying to people who did not sign it. Its like bringing pirates and terrorists into the US to give them civilian trials. People say they should get military trials... When according to the GC (that people are so happy to apply to the situation) pirates and terrorists are not able to receive either. We selectively apply laws to make us look good internationally, when in reality it costs money, and even worse lives of US citizens and military forces.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 12:36, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances full metal jacket .556 is an ideal round. When fighting a traditional battle, against an enemy that follows the rules of war, it is far better to wound the enemy than kill him. Gunner313

We haven't fought a conventional war that lasted any period of time since Korea (and you could even say WWII, since Korea was less than conventional). Also with the way the enemy works now, any intel we can gather from enemy combatants will likely be useless (if it ever was useful) by the time it gets to the guys on the ground. Also as stated by me, and others before, under 50 yards and especially against an enemy that is drugged up a FMJ is likely not going to down an enemy either by wounding him or killing him. Of course shot placement comes into play heavily, but as cases have proven a COM shot is likely not to drop a determined attacker immediately. Head and extremity shots are also very hard to make, with FMJ pretty much the only way to immediately and most important reliably drop an attacker at close range is a pelvic shot. But now days in Afghanistan most fighting is taking place on the far end if not beyond the 5.56's effective range. Also Gunner313 it is 5.56, not .556, .556mm is a really damn small projectile haha. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 14:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

One could say that the First Gulf War was conventional. we were fighting an organized military(Iraq), i still think they were a bunch of crazy towel heads hellbent on destroying the western world.[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Why is it better to wound them? -SasquatchJim.

Because then you can detain them get information from them.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. I apologize; I thought he meant that wounding them was more humane, or something. Although, dead people can't keep shooting at you; wounded ones can. -SasquatchJim

It is better to wound them because it requires the enemy to care for their wounded, they have to be treated, they have to be transported, it is demoralizing to the others to hear someone in terrible pain, so for a short time a wounding shot, takes two people out of the fight. Also the more medical supplies that have to be shipped to the front for the wounded, means less of other items such as ammo, food, fuel, misc... Gunner313

Makes sense to me. Thanks. -SJ

Well in my opinion, I still think it's better to kill the enemy rather than just wound them, that way they don't get patched up and come back later to kill you.

agreed. especially in Somalia when if their not dead their gunna come back and shoot you in the back. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:- Bah, can't believe my one off-hand comment spawned all this. Heh. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing to add other than that this was really informative. This site is one of the best blind discoveries I've made on the internet. --[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] 01:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Never Forget==
Sorry to post as anon, but I dont have an account but frequent the site. Just wanted to point out that today is the 17th anniversary of the US intervention in Somalia.

:- Actually the anniversary is for the mission and subsequent battle portrayed in the film. The 'intervention' began as Operation Provide Relief, which started in December 1992. Still, good to point it out. EDIT - I actually just realized that not only is it the anniversary, but the actual day is correct (That is, Oct. 3 was a Sunday, same day as the Oct. 3 in the battle). Again, pretty cool I guess. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The entire day yesterday i thought about it. i decided to watch the movie being Sunday Oct-3. i also found it fit to say a pray for the brave soldiers who lost their lives fighting to help the ungratefull bastards. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Interesting Uniform Note==

Just wanted to point out an interesting observation about the uniforms worn by the Rangers; this is one of the few films to accurately depict the transition from the 6-color "chocolate chip" camouflage made famous during Desert Storm to the 3-color "coffee stain" pattern that was used throughout the rest of the 1990's and during the invasion and early occupation of Iraq in the early 2000's. During the transition between these two camouflage patterns, it was common to see a combination of the two patterns on the same soldier; they would wear the new DCU's with the old 6-color on their PASGT helmets. Practically all the Rangers in the film have this combination.

[[Image:BHDMinimi-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|[[Tom Hardy]] wielding an FN Minimi as Spc. Twombly, giving us a good look at his 3-color DCU uniform and 6-color helmet cover]]

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun ==

What gun have Mo'alim in his shoulder? He don't remove it from the shoulder at any time, but there are two scenes where you can see:

1 When prevents the killing of Duran:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/

2 When the cannon is firing in the area of the first downed helicopter:
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/

are you referring to the AK-74u? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:37, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I think he is referring to the pistol in his shoulder holster under his left arm. Can't make it out though, will have to have a look on my Bluray version when I get a minute, but don't think it can be seen well enough to make it out. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 10:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

i wasn't aware he had a shoulder holster? can you upload a photo?[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it is a revolver or a pistol:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/
i couldnt see anything on the 2nd picture but the first was definetly a revolver. my guess, and im not expert with revolvers would be a .38 or 357 perhaps a S&W? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== Doc Schmid ==
In the movie PFC Kurt "Doc" Schmid is shown as a Ranger medic but in reality he was Delta Force. It's curious why they chose to depict him as a Ranger and not a Delta operator in the movie.

Maybe they forgot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is somewhat unrelated, but I found it really funny that Schmid is played by the same actor who later played [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185836/ Adam]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

==tapeing==
i was just watching this , and i noticed that a majority of the rangers taped the ends of the butt stocks on their rifles . Why is that?-[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]
:I believe that tape was used (not quite sure how) to attach the sling to the butt of the rifle. Tape is also used at the front of the rifle, to attach a loop of para cord around the front sight to the sling. The reason this was done was so that the sling would be attached on the top/side of the weapon, rather than the bottom (where the only fitted sling loops are) to make it more usable in combat. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:25, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

i noticed nearly all the mag's have brown tape on them, any reasons for this, or is it just purely cosmetic? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:32, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== Nelson's M60 ==

Is is correct to have Nelson carrying the Vietnam Era M60 over the M60E3 or E4? I'm not sure when the E3 or E4 came out.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 03:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:The M60 used in the film is an original spec M60, the same as were actually used by the Rangers in Somalia (As identified by the hand guard and bi-pod attaching at the end of the barrel). Not sure exactly when the E3 was made (started being issues in 1986), but I know there was one in the 1985 film [[Commando]]. Regardless, I don't think it was that widely used, as the lighter weight barrel and other parts made the gun more prone to overheating and malfunction. The rangers actually used a mix of M60s and FN MAGs as shown below:
:[[Image:101120ritchie20pursley8yp.jpg|thumb|500px|none]]
:Also, there has been talk on this page about what the actual weapons used by Delta where, and I cannot speak to this operation in particular, but in most of the photos I have seen of Delta force in Somalia, there are actually armed with M16A2s, normally with a telescopic sight mounted onto the carry handle (example below). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/9607/21820burns20weaver6az.jpg
::Delta operators in Somalia used Colt Model 723 carbines with M4 style barrel, at least watching the few pictures of that time. --[[User:Pz.Abt.100|X-Ray Bravo 6]] 13:54, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Did the Rangers at the time use a black ballistic vest in addition to the woodland RBAs? While searching for M60 photos saw several photos of people in black vests carrying M16A2s with an optic on the handle, also sometimes carrying shotguns and LAWs. Are these likely Rangers rather than Delta then? Also, there are pictures of rangers using colt carbines with the step down M4 type barrels, so I think there was a much wider variety of weapons used than the film shows. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
::::The Rangers only wore Woodland camo RBA (Ranger Body Armor) vests and desert-camo PASGT helmets during the operation (see the "Interesting Uniform Note" section above for info about the desert camo patterns used in the film). Black vests were Delta-issue only. Sort of like present-day spec. ops units using Dragon Skin vests while the main Army uses Interceptor/IOTV vests (though it's not as easy to tell the difference between the modern-day examples by looking at them. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

In the book there was specific mention of a couple of the Rangers being stuck with the Delta "Turtle" Armor because they didn't have enough of the Ranger vests for a while.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 09:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks, that explains photos like the following one then (also, note the Colt carbines with M4 type barrels the Rangers are carrying.)
:[[Image:RangersM4.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

:Also, can anyone shed some light as to what is going on with this SAW:
:[[Image:Saw.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
:First off, isn't this an E2, rather than the E1 as the main article says was used by the Rangers? Also, why does it look like the receiver is made of different metal, and is the sight mount a standard fitting, or something cobbled together? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 00:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Another thing the book mentions is that Delta's Armorer played gunsmith for some of the Ranger guys (at least 1 customized SAW is mentioned).-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

that part of the book is referring to Spc. Waddell's SAW and i believe is was a grip that was put on. i would also like to shed some light on the fact that in 1993 only the Armys Special Ops like Delta Force had that kind of ability on their weapons, and now every soldier on the battlefield has the ability to put on optics, lights, lasers, and stocks. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:22, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Johnny Messner

2011-01-31T23:17:27Z

Dirtdiver6421: New page: Im pretty sure he was in the season 1 finale of burn Notice he can be wielding what appears to be a Smith and Wesson automatic.~~~~

Im pretty sure he was in the season 1 finale of burn Notice he can be wielding what appears to be a Smith and Wesson automatic.[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:17, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2011-01-07T02:01:49Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Jonas' pistol in the pilot */

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Regarding her "busting out her back-up", it may very well have been in the script and intentional, but it's still a ridiculous scene in the way it played out. The script writers could just as easily have wrote in the soldier besting (e.g., cracking her in the face with the stock of his M4 or something) and disarming her, then as she's on the ground and vulnerable, said soldier could advance on her with intent to kill and let his guard down (as all TV bad guys do when up against a female protagonist), only for her to raise up her leg, pull out the back-up, and put a round through his eyeball. I mean, could you conceivably see this scene working if Mack or Jonas were in Bridget's place? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm very sure it was a 10" HK416. Can't confirm it though, needed the hard drive space. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a 416. Watch the special features on the DVDs and you'll get a better view of it.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much guys. i actually was just watching the video off of I-tunes and noticed it looked more like a 416 the 2nd time i watched it. why is it so rare that Movies/ Tv always uses the CQC variant of it? do you think its because with the 14.5 barrel it looks the same as an M4 to the average person? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 22:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's because the 416 isn't widely available to armorers of movies and TV. It's awesome to have the 416 features in The Unit but they stopped using them in season 4, which is a shame since [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
im sure knowone knows the answer but does Delta Force in real life use the M203 still or do they use the HK321? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:Your guess as to what the ''actual'' Unit uses is as good as any of ours. The only ''known'' "Delta" weapons are ones they've been seen using in past operations (e.g., Randy Shughart's M14). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. i would suggest watching Tactical Arms of Tactical Impact. very good shows and the 3 hosts are Ex-Special Ops. Larry Vickers is a famous member of Delta Force who is a founder of Nighthawk Custom, Kyle Defoor is was a Navy SEAL and Jason Falla was an Austrain SAS Operative. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:11, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

::BTW, what's an HK321? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:15, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe he meant the XM320 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 00:26, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

:Flashlights, PEQs red dots, ACOGs maybe and at least 2 of them had the grenade launchers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:29, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

no. the HK321 or 320 i dont recal is HKs version of the m203. it has a verticle grip hard to explain but more effective, supposedly, than the 203. does anyone happen to no what kind of attachments they carry "into hell"? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

:The M320 (not HK321) is derived from HK's AG36 grenade launcher designed for the G36 rifle, it's not in any way mechanically-related to the M203. As for your other question, Jonas' M4 had an ACOG attached to the carry handle and a vertical foregrip, Grey, Bob, and Mack all had M4s with EOTech 551 holosights, PEQ-2A laser modules, Surefire lights, and Cobray CM203 flare launchers standing in for M203 grenade launchers, and Ryan's HK416 had an EOTech 551, PEQ-2A, Surefire light, and vertical foregrip. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:45, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this is a 459 as has been posted. The barrel looks shorter than that of the 459, rather, it looks similar to that of a 469. Also, the grips are different.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

The small pistol on the left looks like a stainless colt mustang to me. - J3

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Walther ID episode==
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired ''after'' this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The screenschot was uploaded the same day "Sudden Flight" (S4E2) aired. Can anyone check the first two episodes of Season 4 to see if it's from one of them? (I realize it could be from any episode from Seasons 1-3, but this seems like a good place to start).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:54, 31 August 2010 (bUTC)

This image is at the end of The Conduit this is the episode where Mack goes undercover in the fight club. it is a walther ppk that he removes/puts on the suppressor after killing some dude.

You sure? It was uploaded a week before The Conduit aired.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Im sure its unlikely but is it possible that it was uploaded off of a preview? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I just double checked, and it's definitely not from The Conduit. There's no closeup of a PPK like that.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== SG 552 Optic ==

Is it just me, or is Grey's SG 552 equipped with a C-MORE ATAC sight with the lens missing?
[[Image:ATAC 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit552D.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit552-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:19, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

That is definitely what it looks like, I can't think of a reason for this, there is now no front sight to aim at range with, surely? Maybe it was damaged or an bizarre Armorer choice to look distinctive. Can the lens and it's placement be removed like this, easily?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 11:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

They use the same optic (with the lens now attached) on the SG 552s in "The Wall", so I imagine the one used in this episode was damaged at some point before/during filming.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 00:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it fell off :P I'm with Lynx I think the lens was probably damaged at some point and it was transported attached to the gun so they couldn't get a replacement lens and the iron sight was already removed so they just used it without the lens. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:27, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

==Jonas' pistol in the pilot==

On the main page you have screen caps identifying the pistol that Jonas has in the pilot as a Kimber. It isn't. It doesn't have the front slide serrations. It looks more like a customised 1911 of some sort. After the pilot he started using a Kimber but in the pilot he doesn't. I'll try get a screen cap of a good look at the pistol at the end of the episode that shows the lack of front serrations on the slide.

Pretty sure its a Kimber. From the pics on the main page the rear sights are the same, the trigger guard is the same and the grips are the same. Jonas has always carried a Kimber as his sidearm. Get a screen cap but from what I can tell its definately a Kimber.

Here's a couple of screen caps. In both of them you can see that the slide serrations on the back are completely straight, not the slanted ones of the Kimber and in the second picture you can see that there are no front slide serrations which indicate that it isn't a Kimber as all Kimber Custom IIs including the TLE II and the Kimber Warrior that Jonas uses throughout the series do. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: OK, it seems that I have no idea how to imbed the pictures. I've uploaded them. But I can't seem to get them to show up here. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:59, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Vlcsnap-174566.png|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Vlcsnap-175315.png|thumb|none|500px|]]

Edited. Looks like you're right about the cocking serrations. I'm no good at ID'ing 1911 variants but I think it might be either a Colt or Springfield model.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 16:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right about Springfield. In the picture where he is reloading if you look closely towards the cocking serrations it looks like the Springfield logo is on the slide. I can't tell though as it isn't clear enough. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:18, 19 November 2010 (UTC

I added some shots, and I'm starting to think it's a custom built model. Any thoughts?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:06, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:1911Unit.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jonas shows Ron his 1911. This shot gives a good view of the extended magwell.]]
[[Image:1911Unit6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jonas fires his 1911 at the mirror. The lettering on the slide is barely visible.]]
[[Image:1911Unit3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jonas aims his 1911 at a hostage he initially suspects to be one of the hijackers. The hammer on the pistol is uncocked despite the fact that is was fired moments before.]]

is it possible it is a Nighthawk Talon II? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:45, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Checked out the Talon but it can't be that because the markings are under the ejection port on the one used by Jonas, the Talon's markings are further forward near the front of the pistol. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 00:31, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

which markings? and is it possible its another Nighthawk? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:20, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

He's referring to the words engraved on the slide just below the ejection port. A quick check of Nighthawk's website shows that virtually all their pistols have similar engravings, but they are farther forward on the slide.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 06:01, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

thanks. the Nighthawks are very nice weapons. its a shame they dont have any in the movies. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:01, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

== Kimber Warrior ==

I've just been re-watching the series as I bought the entire series on DVD recently and what it says about Jonas using a Kimber Warrior from the fourth season on may be wrong. I think he starts using it in the second season as his Kimber from the second season onwards has a rail and on some of the shots of the front it looks like it is lacking in the long guide rod which the TLE II has. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:06, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== M4 (updated 1/5/11) ==
http://www.imfdb.org/images/3/35/TheUnit_21033.jpg
Why is the charging handle moving back like that? I'm pretty sure it doesn't move like that in real life, and stays in the forward position throughout the firing cycle. Is it possible this isn't a real M4 and is some sort of replica?

Actually if you have ever handled any AR-15 variant, military or civilian this can happen if the bolt is locked back. Let's say you manually make the bolt stay open. You pull the charging handle back and press down on the release paddle. Once the bolt is now open, the charging handle you were pulling on is not dangling a bit and won't automatically retract back into place like when you chamber a round. You would have to manually push the charging handle forward, otherwise it would stick out. The scene looks like Jonas had emptied his M4 and musta nudged the charging handle and it flew back [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:57, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

:I've watched this episode, and I can tell you that the editor just took some footage of Jonas holding his M4, and firing sound F/X were added. Jonas isn't actually firing the weapon (that is, he isn't firing blank ammunition). I'm guessing they just used this footage because they didn't have anything better.

:You can see also that the weapon is locked open (the bolt is back), which means that it's actually empty! When you chamber an AR with an empty mag installed, that's what happens - the bolt locks back, and the charging handle will loosely dangle backwards (unless you use the receiver clamp to hold it in place). Also, I don't think this M4 is a "replica" - you'll notice that it has no fencing around the magazine release, which means that the armorer slapped an M4 upper receiver on an M16 (SP1) lower receiver. If it were an airsoft M4, I'd expect it to have the correct lower receiver type (since I'm not aware of any airsoft manufacturer that makes M4s this way). In other words, it is a "franken" gun (common in movies), but not a replica. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:22, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

== PSG1/FAL in season 1 episode 2. ==

This is probably a stupid question, but what is up with Mack and Hector's grips, or lack thereof, while using the PSG-1 and FAL?

Talk:The Unit

2011-01-06T02:20:56Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Jonas' pistol in the pilot */

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Regarding her "busting out her back-up", it may very well have been in the script and intentional, but it's still a ridiculous scene in the way it played out. The script writers could just as easily have wrote in the soldier besting (e.g., cracking her in the face with the stock of his M4 or something) and disarming her, then as she's on the ground and vulnerable, said soldier could advance on her with intent to kill and let his guard down (as all TV bad guys do when up against a female protagonist), only for her to raise up her leg, pull out the back-up, and put a round through his eyeball. I mean, could you conceivably see this scene working if Mack or Jonas were in Bridget's place? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm very sure it was a 10" HK416. Can't confirm it though, needed the hard drive space. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a 416. Watch the special features on the DVDs and you'll get a better view of it.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much guys. i actually was just watching the video off of I-tunes and noticed it looked more like a 416 the 2nd time i watched it. why is it so rare that Movies/ Tv always uses the CQC variant of it? do you think its because with the 14.5 barrel it looks the same as an M4 to the average person? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 22:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's because the 416 isn't widely available to armorers of movies and TV. It's awesome to have the 416 features in The Unit but they stopped using them in season 4, which is a shame since [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
im sure knowone knows the answer but does Delta Force in real life use the M203 still or do they use the HK321? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:Your guess as to what the ''actual'' Unit uses is as good as any of ours. The only ''known'' "Delta" weapons are ones they've been seen using in past operations (e.g., Randy Shughart's M14). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. i would suggest watching Tactical Arms of Tactical Impact. very good shows and the 3 hosts are Ex-Special Ops. Larry Vickers is a famous member of Delta Force who is a founder of Nighthawk Custom, Kyle Defoor is was a Navy SEAL and Jason Falla was an Austrain SAS Operative. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:11, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

::BTW, what's an HK321? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:15, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe he meant the XM320 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 00:26, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

:Flashlights, PEQs red dots, ACOGs maybe and at least 2 of them had the grenade launchers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:29, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

no. the HK321 or 320 i dont recal is HKs version of the m203. it has a verticle grip hard to explain but more effective, supposedly, than the 203. does anyone happen to no what kind of attachments they carry "into hell"? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this is a 459 as has been posted. The barrel looks shorter than that of the 459, rather, it looks similar to that of a 469. Also, the grips are different.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

The small pistol on the left looks like a stainless colt mustang to me. - J3

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Walther ID episode==
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired ''after'' this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The screenschot was uploaded the same day "Sudden Flight" (S4E2) aired. Can anyone check the first two episodes of Season 4 to see if it's from one of them? (I realize it could be from any episode from Seasons 1-3, but this seems like a good place to start).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:54, 31 August 2010 (bUTC)

This image is at the end of The Conduit this is the episode where Mack goes undercover in the fight club. it is a walther ppk that he removes/puts on the suppressor after killing some dude.

You sure? It was uploaded a week before The Conduit aired.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Im sure its unlikely but is it possible that it was uploaded off of a preview? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I just double checked, and it's definitely not from The Conduit. There's no closeup of a PPK like that.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== SG 552 Optic ==

Is it just me, or is Grey's SG 552 equipped with a C-MORE ATAC sight with the lens missing?
[[Image:ATAC 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit552D.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit552-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:19, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

That is definitely what it looks like, I can't think of a reason for this, there is now no front sight to aim at range with, surely? Maybe it was damaged or an bizarre Armorer choice to look distinctive. Can the lens and it's placement be removed like this, easily?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 11:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

They use the same optic (with the lens now attached) on the SG 552s in "The Wall", so I imagine the one used in this episode was damaged at some point before/during filming.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 00:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it fell off :P I'm with Lynx I think the lens was probably damaged at some point and it was transported attached to the gun so they couldn't get a replacement lens and the iron sight was already removed so they just used it without the lens. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:27, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

==Jonas' pistol in the pilot==

On the main page you have screen caps identifying the pistol that Jonas has in the pilot as a Kimber. It isn't. It doesn't have the front slide serrations. It looks more like a customised 1911 of some sort. After the pilot he started using a Kimber but in the pilot he doesn't. I'll try get a screen cap of a good look at the pistol at the end of the episode that shows the lack of front serrations on the slide.

Pretty sure its a Kimber. From the pics on the main page the rear sights are the same, the trigger guard is the same and the grips are the same. Jonas has always carried a Kimber as his sidearm. Get a screen cap but from what I can tell its definately a Kimber.

Here's a couple of screen caps. In both of them you can see that the slide serrations on the back are completely straight, not the slanted ones of the Kimber and in the second picture you can see that there are no front slide serrations which indicate that it isn't a Kimber as all Kimber Custom IIs including the TLE II and the Kimber Warrior that Jonas uses throughout the series do. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: OK, it seems that I have no idea how to imbed the pictures. I've uploaded them. But I can't seem to get them to show up here. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:59, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Vlcsnap-174566.png|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Vlcsnap-175315.png|thumb|none|500px|]]

Edited. Looks like you're right about the cocking serrations. I'm no good at ID'ing 1911 variants but I think it might be either a Colt or Springfield model.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 16:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right about Springfield. In the picture where he is reloading if you look closely towards the cocking serrations it looks like the Springfield logo is on the slide. I can't tell though as it isn't clear enough. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:18, 19 November 2010 (UTC

I added some shots, and I'm starting to think it's a custom built model. Any thoughts?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:06, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:1911Unit.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jonas shows Ron his 1911. This shot gives a good view of the extended magwell.]]
[[Image:1911Unit6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jonas fires his 1911 at the mirror. The lettering on the slide is barely visible.]]
[[Image:1911Unit3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jonas aims his 1911 at a hostage he initially suspects to be one of the hijackers. The hammer on the pistol is uncocked despite the fact that is was fired moments before.]]

is it possible it is a Nighthawk Talon II? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:45, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Checked out the Talon but it can't be that because the markings are under the ejection port on the one used by Jonas, the Talon's markings are further forward near the front of the pistol. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 00:31, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

which markings? and is it possible its another Nighthawk? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:20, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

== Kimber Warrior ==

I've just been re-watching the series as I bought the entire series on DVD recently and what it says about Jonas using a Kimber Warrior from the fourth season on may be wrong. I think he starts using it in the second season as his Kimber from the second season onwards has a rail and on some of the shots of the front it looks like it is lacking in the long guide rod which the TLE II has. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:06, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2011-01-05T23:45:32Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Jonas' pistol in the pilot */

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Regarding her "busting out her back-up", it may very well have been in the script and intentional, but it's still a ridiculous scene in the way it played out. The script writers could just as easily have wrote in the soldier besting (e.g., cracking her in the face with the stock of his M4 or something) and disarming her, then as she's on the ground and vulnerable, said soldier could advance on her with intent to kill and let his guard down (as all TV bad guys do when up against a female protagonist), only for her to raise up her leg, pull out the back-up, and put a round through his eyeball. I mean, could you conceivably see this scene working if Mack or Jonas were in Bridget's place? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm very sure it was a 10" HK416. Can't confirm it though, needed the hard drive space. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a 416. Watch the special features on the DVDs and you'll get a better view of it.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much guys. i actually was just watching the video off of I-tunes and noticed it looked more like a 416 the 2nd time i watched it. why is it so rare that Movies/ Tv always uses the CQC variant of it? do you think its because with the 14.5 barrel it looks the same as an M4 to the average person? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 22:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's because the 416 isn't widely available to armorers of movies and TV. It's awesome to have the 416 features in The Unit but they stopped using them in season 4, which is a shame since [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
im sure knowone knows the answer but does Delta Force in real life use the M203 still or do they use the HK321? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:Your guess as to what the ''actual'' Unit uses is as good as any of ours. The only ''known'' "Delta" weapons are ones they've been seen using in past operations (e.g., Randy Shughart's M14). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. i would suggest watching Tactical Arms of Tactical Impact. very good shows and the 3 hosts are Ex-Special Ops. Larry Vickers is a famous member of Delta Force who is a founder of Nighthawk Custom, Kyle Defoor is was a Navy SEAL and Jason Falla was an Austrain SAS Operative. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:11, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

::BTW, what's an HK321? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:15, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe he meant the XM320 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 00:26, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

:Flashlights, PEQs red dots, ACOGs maybe and at least 2 of them had the grenade launchers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:29, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

no. the HK321 or 320 i dont recal is HKs version of the m203. it has a verticle grip hard to explain but more effective, supposedly, than the 203. does anyone happen to no what kind of attachments they carry "into hell"? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this is a 459 as has been posted. The barrel looks shorter than that of the 459, rather, it looks similar to that of a 469. Also, the grips are different.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

The small pistol on the left looks like a stainless colt mustang to me. - J3

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Walther ID episode==
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired ''after'' this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The screenschot was uploaded the same day "Sudden Flight" (S4E2) aired. Can anyone check the first two episodes of Season 4 to see if it's from one of them? (I realize it could be from any episode from Seasons 1-3, but this seems like a good place to start).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:54, 31 August 2010 (bUTC)

This image is at the end of The Conduit this is the episode where Mack goes undercover in the fight club. it is a walther ppk that he removes/puts on the suppressor after killing some dude.

You sure? It was uploaded a week before The Conduit aired.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Im sure its unlikely but is it possible that it was uploaded off of a preview? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I just double checked, and it's definitely not from The Conduit. There's no closeup of a PPK like that.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== SG 552 Optic ==

Is it just me, or is Grey's SG 552 equipped with a C-MORE ATAC sight with the lens missing?
[[Image:ATAC 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit552D.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit552-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:19, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

That is definitely what it looks like, I can't think of a reason for this, there is now no front sight to aim at range with, surely? Maybe it was damaged or an bizarre Armorer choice to look distinctive. Can the lens and it's placement be removed like this, easily?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 11:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

They use the same optic (with the lens now attached) on the SG 552s in "The Wall", so I imagine the one used in this episode was damaged at some point before/during filming.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 00:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it fell off :P I'm with Lynx I think the lens was probably damaged at some point and it was transported attached to the gun so they couldn't get a replacement lens and the iron sight was already removed so they just used it without the lens. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:27, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

==Jonas' pistol in the pilot==

On the main page you have screen caps identifying the pistol that Jonas has in the pilot as a Kimber. It isn't. It doesn't have the front slide serrations. It looks more like a customised 1911 of some sort. After the pilot he started using a Kimber but in the pilot he doesn't. I'll try get a screen cap of a good look at the pistol at the end of the episode that shows the lack of front serrations on the slide.

Pretty sure its a Kimber. From the pics on the main page the rear sights are the same, the trigger guard is the same and the grips are the same. Jonas has always carried a Kimber as his sidearm. Get a screen cap but from what I can tell its definately a Kimber.

Here's a couple of screen caps. In both of them you can see that the slide serrations on the back are completely straight, not the slanted ones of the Kimber and in the second picture you can see that there are no front slide serrations which indicate that it isn't a Kimber as all Kimber Custom IIs including the TLE II and the Kimber Warrior that Jonas uses throughout the series do. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: OK, it seems that I have no idea how to imbed the pictures. I've uploaded them. But I can't seem to get them to show up here. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:59, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Vlcsnap-174566.png|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Vlcsnap-175315.png|thumb|none|500px|]]

Edited. Looks like you're right about the cocking serrations. I'm no good at ID'ing 1911 variants but I think it might be either a Colt or Springfield model.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 16:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right about Springfield. In the picture where he is reloading if you look closely towards the cocking serrations it looks like the Springfield logo is on the slide. I can't tell though as it isn't clear enough. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:18, 19 November 2010 (UTC

I added some shots, and I'm starting to think it's a custom built model. Any thoughts?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:06, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:1911Unit.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jonas shows Ron his 1911. This shot gives a good view of the extended magwell.]]
[[Image:1911Unit6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jonas fires his 1911 at the mirror. The lettering on the slide is barely visible.]]
[[Image:1911Unit3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jonas aims his 1911 at a hostage he initially suspects to be one of the hijackers. The hammer on the pistol is uncocked despite the fact that is was fired moments before.]]

is it possible it is a Nighthawk Talon II? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:45, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

== Kimber Warrior ==

I've just been re-watching the series as I bought the entire series on DVD recently and what it says about Jonas using a Kimber Warrior from the fourth season on may be wrong. I think he starts using it in the second season as his Kimber from the second season onwards has a rail and on some of the shots of the front it looks like it is lacking in the long guide rod which the TLE II has. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:06, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-12-17T01:12:48Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Into Hell */

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Regarding her "busting out her back-up", it may very well have been in the script and intentional, but it's still a ridiculous scene in the way it played out. The script writers could just as easily have wrote in the soldier besting (e.g., cracking her in the face with the stock of his M4 or something) and disarming her, then as she's on the ground and vulnerable, said soldier could advance on her with intent to kill and let his guard down (as all TV bad guys do when up against a female protagonist), only for her to raise up her leg, pull out the back-up, and put a round through his eyeball. I mean, could you conceivably see this scene working if Mack or Jonas were in Bridget's place? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm very sure it was a 10" HK416. Can't confirm it though, needed the hard drive space. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a 416. Watch the special features on the DVDs and you'll get a better view of it.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much guys. i actually was just watching the video off of I-tunes and noticed it looked more like a 416 the 2nd time i watched it. why is it so rare that Movies/ Tv always uses the CQC variant of it? do you think its because with the 14.5 barrel it looks the same as an M4 to the average person? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 22:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's because the 416 isn't widely available to armorers of movies and TV. It's awesome to have the 416 features in The Unit but they stopped using them in season 4, which is a shame since [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
im sure knowone knows the answer but does Delta Force in real life use the M203 still or do they use the HK321? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:Your guess as to what the ''actual'' Unit uses is as good as any of ours. The only ''known'' "Delta" weapons are ones they've been seen using in past operations (e.g., Randy Shughart's M14). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. i would suggest watching Tactical Arms of Tactical Impact. very good shows and the 3 hosts are Ex-Special Ops. Larry Vickers is a famous member of Delta Force who is a founder of Nighthawk Custom, Kyle Defoor is was a Navy SEAL and Jason Falla was an Austrain SAS Operative. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:11, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

::BTW, what's an HK321? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:15, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe he meant the XM320 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 00:26, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

no. the HK321 or 320 i dont recal is HKs version of the m203. it has a verticle grip hard to explain but more effective, supposedly, than the 203. does anyone happen to no what kind of attachments they carry "into hell"? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this is a 459 as has been posted. The barrel looks shorter than that of the 459, rather, it looks similar to that of a 469. Also, the grips are different.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

The small pistol on the left looks like a stainless colt mustang to me. - J3

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Walther ID episode==
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired ''after'' this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The screenschot was uploaded the same day "Sudden Flight" (S4E2) aired. Can anyone check the first two episodes of Season 4 to see if it's from one of them? (I realize it could be from any episode from Seasons 1-3, but this seems like a good place to start).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:54, 31 August 2010 (bUTC)

This image is at the end of The Conduit this is the episode where Mack goes undercover in the fight club. it is a walther ppk that he removes/puts on the suppressor after killing some dude.

You sure? It was uploaded a week before The Conduit aired.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Im sure its unlikely but is it possible that it was uploaded off of a preview? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I just double checked, and it's definitely not from The Conduit. There's no closeup of a PPK like that.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== SG 552 Optic ==

Is it just me, or is Grey's SG 552 equipped with a C-MORE ATAC sight with the lens missing?
[[Image:ATAC 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit552D.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit552-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:19, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

That is definitely what it looks like, I can't think of a reason for this, there is now no front sight to aim at range with, surely? Maybe it was damaged or an bizarre Armorer choice to look distinctive. Can the lens and it's placement be removed like this, easily?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 11:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

They use the same optic (with the lens now attached) on the SG 552s in "The Wall", so I imagine the one used in this episode was damaged at some point before/during filming.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 00:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it fell off :P I'm with Lynx I think the lens was probably damaged at some point and it was transported attached to the gun so they couldn't get a replacement lens and the iron sight was already removed so they just used it without the lens. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:27, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

==Jonas' pistol in the pilot==

On the main page you have screen caps identifying the pistol that Jonas has in the pilot as a Kimber. It isn't. It doesn't have the front slide serrations. It looks more like a customised 1911 of some sort. After the pilot he started using a Kimber but in the pilot he doesn't. I'll try get a screen cap of a good look at the pistol at the end of the episode that shows the lack of front serrations on the slide.

Pretty sure its a Kimber. From the pics on the main page the rear sights are the same, the trigger guard is the same and the grips are the same. Jonas has always carried a Kimber as his sidearm. Get a screen cap but from what I can tell its definately a Kimber.

Here's a couple of screen caps. In both of them you can see that the slide serrations on the back are completely straight, not the slanted ones of the Kimber and in the second picture you can see that there are no front slide serrations which indicate that it isn't a Kimber as all Kimber Custom IIs including the TLE II and the Kimber Warrior that Jonas uses throughout the series do. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: OK, it seems that I have no idea how to imbed the pictures. I've uploaded them. But I can't seem to get them to show up here. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:59, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Vlcsnap-174566.png|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Vlcsnap-175315.png|thumb|none|500px|]]

Edited. Looks like you're right about the cocking serrations. I'm no good at ID'ing 1911 variants but I think it might be either a Colt or Springfield model.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 16:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right about Springfield. In the picture where he is reloading if you look closely towards the cocking serrations it looks like the Springfield logo is on the slide. I can't tell though as it isn't clear enough. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:18, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2010-12-09T23:27:57Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun */

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2010-12-08T01:47:55Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun */

== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

::::: I believe it was because he was firing his M14 until it ran out of ammo, and then using a helo crew member's M16 before retreating to reload both rifles.:::

:::- Yes, that's the case. Gordon is also seen dropping his CAR-15 when it's empty and using his 1911. Later, when Shughart is killed, he fires the M14 'til it's empty, then switching to his 1911, and when that is empty, using an MP5 from the chopper. Hell, they're being overwhelmed, and it is quicker to pick up and and shoot another weapon that is ready than reload the present one. They were pretty much using whatever they could trying their damndest to fend an army off, I would think that was obvious. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I did read Mike Durant's book and would like to point out he referred to Randy's weapon as a High-Tech rifle. as we all no, it was a vietnam era M14. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 21:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:I just stared reading Durant's "In the Company of Heroes" before he called it a "German piece of crap", he said the MP5 had shot fine at the range but he probably had neglected to clean it. It was after Shughart gave him Gordon's CAR-15 which didn't jam and was far more effective despite only having half a mag left he thought of the MP5 as a piece of shit. He also had an M9 that he never drew, which he said probably saved his life since he wasn't seen as a threat. While Shughart's M14 isn't really a "High-Tech rifle" it was a lot better than a bolt-gun in the situation he was in. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:52, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

'''Don't forget about the 10th Mountain and the U.N Soldiers. Whoever created this page missed them completly and they had alot of firearms. Whats omore is i can't for some reason edit the page. the autheor needs to fix this right away'''

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::I'm fairly certain this convo is referring to the later M4 with detachable carry handle. That's why I mentioned the 727 having an A2 upper. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:44, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

All gear that is used in the US Army has to be tested. Part of this testing cycle is to give it to SF, Rangers, Delta, etc. to field it before it is approved for widespread use. Considering the length of trials and the endless bureaucracy in the DoD, it is completely plausible that these guys had the first generation of the M4 in TFR/OGS. I saw a SCAR in the wild on my latest deployment to Afghanistan last year. These guys are like the pro athletes of the military world. All sorts of manufacturers will just give them gear to use in order to try to get them to reccomend it... Optics, armor, boots, gun accessories, etc...

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.

== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

That's Jeremy Piven, nowadays best known for playing Ari Gold on HBO's Entourage. Wikipedia says he played CFO Clifton Wolcott.

:I do not think it Piven. In the film he plays a pilot role and his hair is black.
http://files.haiguinet.com/flashupload/UploadedFiles/1252005569_159Jeremy_Piven.jpg
http://emsworth.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jeremy-piven-in-black-hawk-down-2.jpg
When I put the photos on the page, before to name him "delta actor", I looked for the name of this guy in the entire cast. Unsuccessfully. I think it is a stunt.--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

::Flight gloves, as I just fucking explained, are not restrictive or obstructive in the slightest.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

:::- ''Uh, I had replied below I didn't know about these gloves specifically, which you seem to have failed to notice. Just as you also seem to have failed to notice that all these comments you posted this slightly irritable and unnecessary response in-between were all posted '''days ago'''. It might help if you thoroughly read the comments and check the dates next time.'' [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Flight gloves are a very thin layer of Nomex with a Clarino palm and finger overlaid. These are very light, wick sweat, and give you tactile feeling and the ability to perform tasks as though you were bare handed. They are maybe a few mm thick on the palms, and do not affect in any way your shooting ability or accuracy, even whilst firing an M249, which is notorious for running away due to gloves getting stuck and holding the trigger back.

==Discussion about the bullets, or something==
- Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Geneva convention forbids hollow point ammo in the military. The Police of the nation is a different subject. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:You're thinking of the Hague Convention of 1899, not the Geneva Convention.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was the GC or HC and didn't really care to look it up at the moment.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Hague banned all use of ammunition that easily expands or flattens in a human target. I have no exact idea of what round is being used or how it gets around the HC, I only know that when asked about the effectiveness of 5.56 ammunition, a few SF guys made mention that have been issued a new "expanding" round. I have also heard that Marines are now being issued an expanding type round. It may be that since we are not actually fighting an official "military force" that the HC and GC do not apply. Also you must remember that the use of .50 cal against personnel is banned too, how often do you think that is observed?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not saying we follow either conventions to a T in every war, I'm just echoing what I heard from a man who was there. A lot of people who lived through the battle of mogadishu came away with the feeling that Bill Clinton cared more about how headlines would look than he did about the safety of our soldiers. As for HC and GC not applying, I agree that they really don't apply to A) organizations that are not militaries but instead ragtag terrorist groups and B) hail from nations that didn't exist at the time of the convention and never signed a similar document. It's the same argument that was applied for the waterboarding of captured terrorists; apparently, they apply some standards to those who didn't sign, but not others. Personally, I think that terrorist groups and undeveloped countries where they never signed the conventions shouldn't get the protection of them, and we really need to invest into expanding ammunitions for everyone; AP doesn't make sense for unarmored targets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The question about observing the laws was rhetorical in nature. But I agree wholeheartedly about what you say pertaining to the HC and GC applying to people who did not sign it. Its like bringing pirates and terrorists into the US to give them civilian trials. People say they should get military trials... When according to the GC (that people are so happy to apply to the situation) pirates and terrorists are not able to receive either. We selectively apply laws to make us look good internationally, when in reality it costs money, and even worse lives of US citizens and military forces.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 12:36, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances full metal jacket .556 is an ideal round. When fighting a traditional battle, against an enemy that follows the rules of war, it is far better to wound the enemy than kill him. Gunner313

We haven't fought a conventional war that lasted any period of time since Korea (and you could even say WWII, since Korea was less than conventional). Also with the way the enemy works now, any intel we can gather from enemy combatants will likely be useless (if it ever was useful) by the time it gets to the guys on the ground. Also as stated by me, and others before, under 50 yards and especially against an enemy that is drugged up a FMJ is likely not going to down an enemy either by wounding him or killing him. Of course shot placement comes into play heavily, but as cases have proven a COM shot is likely not to drop a determined attacker immediately. Head and extremity shots are also very hard to make, with FMJ pretty much the only way to immediately and most important reliably drop an attacker at close range is a pelvic shot. But now days in Afghanistan most fighting is taking place on the far end if not beyond the 5.56's effective range. Also Gunner313 it is 5.56, not .556, .556mm is a really damn small projectile haha. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 14:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

One could say that the First Gulf War was conventional. we were fighting an organized military(Iraq), i still think they were a bunch of crazy towel heads hellbent on destroying the western world.[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Why is it better to wound them? -SasquatchJim.

Because then you can detain them get information from them.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. I apologize; I thought he meant that wounding them was more humane, or something. Although, dead people can't keep shooting at you; wounded ones can. -SasquatchJim

It is better to wound them because it requires the enemy to care for their wounded, they have to be treated, they have to be transported, it is demoralizing to the others to hear someone in terrible pain, so for a short time a wounding shot, takes two people out of the fight. Also the more medical supplies that have to be shipped to the front for the wounded, means less of other items such as ammo, food, fuel, misc... Gunner313

Makes sense to me. Thanks. -SJ

Well in my opinion, I still think it's better to kill the enemy rather than just wound them, that way they don't get patched up and come back later to kill you.

agreed. especially in Somalia when if their not dead their gunna come back and shoot you in the back. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:- Bah, can't believe my one off-hand comment spawned all this. Heh. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing to add other than that this was really informative. This site is one of the best blind discoveries I've made on the internet. --[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] 01:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Never Forget==
Sorry to post as anon, but I dont have an account but frequent the site. Just wanted to point out that today is the 17th anniversary of the US intervention in Somalia.

:- Actually the anniversary is for the mission and subsequent battle portrayed in the film. The 'intervention' began as Operation Provide Relief, which started in December 1992. Still, good to point it out. EDIT - I actually just realized that not only is it the anniversary, but the actual day is correct (That is, Oct. 3 was a Sunday, same day as the Oct. 3 in the battle). Again, pretty cool I guess. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The entire day yesterday i thought about it. i decided to watch the movie being Sunday Oct-3. i also found it fit to say a pray for the brave soldiers who lost their lives fighting to help the ungratefull bastards. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Interesting Uniform Note==

Just wanted to point out an interesting observation about the uniforms worn by the Rangers; this is one of the few films to accurately depict the transition from the 6-color "chocolate chip" camouflage made famous during Desert Storm to the 3-color "coffee stain" pattern that was used throughout the rest of the 1990's and during the invasion and early occupation of Iraq in the early 2000's. During the transition between these two camouflage patterns, it was common to see a combination of the two patterns on the same soldier; they would wear the new DCU's with the old 6-color on their PASGT helmets. Practically all the Rangers in the film have this combination.

[[Image:BHDMinimi-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|[[Tom Hardy]] wielding an FN Minimi as Spc. Twombly, giving us a good look at his 3-color DCU uniform and 6-color helmet cover]]

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun ==

What gun have Mo'alim in his shoulder? He don't remove it from the shoulder at any time, but there are two scenes where you can see:

1 When prevents the killing of Duran:
[[Image:http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/]]

2 When the cannon is firing in the area of the first downed helicopter:
[[Image:http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/]]
are you referring to the AK-74u? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:37, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I think he is referring to the pistol in his shoulder holster under his left arm. Can't make it out though, will have to have a look on my Bluray version when I get a minute, but don't think it can be seen well enough to make it out. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 10:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

i wasn't aware he had a shoulder holster? can you upload a photo?[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2010-12-06T23:37:07Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun */

== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

::::: I believe it was because he was firing his M14 until it ran out of ammo, and then using a helo crew member's M16 before retreating to reload both rifles.:::

:::- Yes, that's the case. Gordon is also seen dropping his CAR-15 when it's empty and using his 1911. Later, when Shughart is killed, he fires the M14 'til it's empty, then switching to his 1911, and when that is empty, using an MP5 from the chopper. Hell, they're being overwhelmed, and it is quicker to pick up and and shoot another weapon that is ready than reload the present one. They were pretty much using whatever they could trying their damndest to fend an army off, I would think that was obvious. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I did read Mike Durant's book and would like to point out he referred to Randy's weapon as a High-Tech rifle. as we all no, it was a vietnam era M14. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 21:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:I just stared reading Durant's "In the Company of Heroes" before he called it a "German piece of crap", he said the MP5 had shot fine at the range but he probably had neglected to clean it. It was after Shughart gave him Gordon's CAR-15 which didn't jam and was far more effective despite only having half a mag left he thought of the MP5 as a piece of shit. He also had an M9 that he never drew, which he said probably saved his life since he wasn't seen as a threat. While Shughart's M14 isn't really a "High-Tech rifle" it was a lot better than a bolt-gun in the situation he was in. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:52, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

'''Don't forget about the 10th Mountain and the U.N Soldiers. Whoever created this page missed them completly and they had alot of firearms. Whats omore is i can't for some reason edit the page. the autheor needs to fix this right away'''

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::I'm fairly certain this convo is referring to the later M4 with detachable carry handle. That's why I mentioned the 727 having an A2 upper. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:44, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

All gear that is used in the US Army has to be tested. Part of this testing cycle is to give it to SF, Rangers, Delta, etc. to field it before it is approved for widespread use. Considering the length of trials and the endless bureaucracy in the DoD, it is completely plausible that these guys had the first generation of the M4 in TFR/OGS. I saw a SCAR in the wild on my latest deployment to Afghanistan last year. These guys are like the pro athletes of the military world. All sorts of manufacturers will just give them gear to use in order to try to get them to reccomend it... Optics, armor, boots, gun accessories, etc...

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.

== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

That's Jeremy Piven, nowadays best known for playing Ari Gold on HBO's Entourage. Wikipedia says he played CFO Clifton Wolcott.

:I do not think it Piven. In the film he plays a pilot role and his hair is black.
http://files.haiguinet.com/flashupload/UploadedFiles/1252005569_159Jeremy_Piven.jpg
http://emsworth.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jeremy-piven-in-black-hawk-down-2.jpg
When I put the photos on the page, before to name him "delta actor", I looked for the name of this guy in the entire cast. Unsuccessfully. I think it is a stunt.--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

::Flight gloves, as I just fucking explained, are not restrictive or obstructive in the slightest.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

:::- ''Uh, I had replied below I didn't know about these gloves specifically, which you seem to have failed to notice. Just as you also seem to have failed to notice that all these comments you posted this slightly irritable and unnecessary response in-between were all posted '''days ago'''. It might help if you thoroughly read the comments and check the dates next time.'' [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Flight gloves are a very thin layer of Nomex with a Clarino palm and finger overlaid. These are very light, wick sweat, and give you tactile feeling and the ability to perform tasks as though you were bare handed. They are maybe a few mm thick on the palms, and do not affect in any way your shooting ability or accuracy, even whilst firing an M249, which is notorious for running away due to gloves getting stuck and holding the trigger back.

==Discussion about the bullets, or something==
- Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Geneva convention forbids hollow point ammo in the military. The Police of the nation is a different subject. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:You're thinking of the Hague Convention of 1899, not the Geneva Convention.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was the GC or HC and didn't really care to look it up at the moment.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Hague banned all use of ammunition that easily expands or flattens in a human target. I have no exact idea of what round is being used or how it gets around the HC, I only know that when asked about the effectiveness of 5.56 ammunition, a few SF guys made mention that have been issued a new "expanding" round. I have also heard that Marines are now being issued an expanding type round. It may be that since we are not actually fighting an official "military force" that the HC and GC do not apply. Also you must remember that the use of .50 cal against personnel is banned too, how often do you think that is observed?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not saying we follow either conventions to a T in every war, I'm just echoing what I heard from a man who was there. A lot of people who lived through the battle of mogadishu came away with the feeling that Bill Clinton cared more about how headlines would look than he did about the safety of our soldiers. As for HC and GC not applying, I agree that they really don't apply to A) organizations that are not militaries but instead ragtag terrorist groups and B) hail from nations that didn't exist at the time of the convention and never signed a similar document. It's the same argument that was applied for the waterboarding of captured terrorists; apparently, they apply some standards to those who didn't sign, but not others. Personally, I think that terrorist groups and undeveloped countries where they never signed the conventions shouldn't get the protection of them, and we really need to invest into expanding ammunitions for everyone; AP doesn't make sense for unarmored targets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The question about observing the laws was rhetorical in nature. But I agree wholeheartedly about what you say pertaining to the HC and GC applying to people who did not sign it. Its like bringing pirates and terrorists into the US to give them civilian trials. People say they should get military trials... When according to the GC (that people are so happy to apply to the situation) pirates and terrorists are not able to receive either. We selectively apply laws to make us look good internationally, when in reality it costs money, and even worse lives of US citizens and military forces.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 12:36, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances full metal jacket .556 is an ideal round. When fighting a traditional battle, against an enemy that follows the rules of war, it is far better to wound the enemy than kill him. Gunner313

We haven't fought a conventional war that lasted any period of time since Korea (and you could even say WWII, since Korea was less than conventional). Also with the way the enemy works now, any intel we can gather from enemy combatants will likely be useless (if it ever was useful) by the time it gets to the guys on the ground. Also as stated by me, and others before, under 50 yards and especially against an enemy that is drugged up a FMJ is likely not going to down an enemy either by wounding him or killing him. Of course shot placement comes into play heavily, but as cases have proven a COM shot is likely not to drop a determined attacker immediately. Head and extremity shots are also very hard to make, with FMJ pretty much the only way to immediately and most important reliably drop an attacker at close range is a pelvic shot. But now days in Afghanistan most fighting is taking place on the far end if not beyond the 5.56's effective range. Also Gunner313 it is 5.56, not .556, .556mm is a really damn small projectile haha. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 14:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

One could say that the First Gulf War was conventional. we were fighting an organized military(Iraq), i still think they were a bunch of crazy towel heads hellbent on destroying the western world.[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Why is it better to wound them? -SasquatchJim.

Because then you can detain them get information from them.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. I apologize; I thought he meant that wounding them was more humane, or something. Although, dead people can't keep shooting at you; wounded ones can. -SasquatchJim

It is better to wound them because it requires the enemy to care for their wounded, they have to be treated, they have to be transported, it is demoralizing to the others to hear someone in terrible pain, so for a short time a wounding shot, takes two people out of the fight. Also the more medical supplies that have to be shipped to the front for the wounded, means less of other items such as ammo, food, fuel, misc... Gunner313

Makes sense to me. Thanks. -SJ

Well in my opinion, I still think it's better to kill the enemy rather than just wound them, that way they don't get patched up and come back later to kill you.

agreed. especially in Somalia when if their not dead their gunna come back and shoot you in the back. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:- Bah, can't believe my one off-hand comment spawned all this. Heh. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing to add other than that this was really informative. This site is one of the best blind discoveries I've made on the internet. --[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] 01:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Never Forget==
Sorry to post as anon, but I dont have an account but frequent the site. Just wanted to point out that today is the 17th anniversary of the US intervention in Somalia.

:- Actually the anniversary is for the mission and subsequent battle portrayed in the film. The 'intervention' began as Operation Provide Relief, which started in December 1992. Still, good to point it out. EDIT - I actually just realized that not only is it the anniversary, but the actual day is correct (That is, Oct. 3 was a Sunday, same day as the Oct. 3 in the battle). Again, pretty cool I guess. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The entire day yesterday i thought about it. i decided to watch the movie being Sunday Oct-3. i also found it fit to say a pray for the brave soldiers who lost their lives fighting to help the ungratefull bastards. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Interesting Uniform Note==

Just wanted to point out an interesting observation about the uniforms worn by the Rangers; this is one of the few films to accurately depict the transition from the 6-color "chocolate chip" camouflage made famous during Desert Storm to the 3-color "coffee stain" pattern that was used throughout the rest of the 1990's and during the invasion and early occupation of Iraq in the early 2000's. During the transition between these two camouflage patterns, it was common to see a combination of the two patterns on the same soldier; they would wear the new DCU's with the old 6-color on their PASGT helmets. Practically all the Rangers in the film have this combination.

[[Image:BHDMinimi-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|[[Tom Hardy]] wielding an FN Minimi as Spc. Twombly, giving us a good look at his 3-color DCU uniform and 6-color helmet cover]]

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun ==

What gun have Mo'alim in his shoulder? He don't remove it from the shoulder at any time, but there are two scenes where you can see:

1 When prevents the killing of Duran:
[[Image:http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/]]

2 When the cannon is firing in the area of the first downed helicopter:
[[Image:http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/]]
are you referring to the AK-74u? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:37, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

2010-12-05T22:03:41Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Something I noticed in both this game and COD4 */

Note: This talk page is for discussion related to the '''article'''. Do not use it to argue about how H&K pwnz Colt, it is safe to say nobody cares.
<big>TO ARCHIVE</big>
__TOC__

==Computer thingy==
I know not the right place to ask but I'm going mad whats the thing your characters wears around their arms like a gps module or something I have seen it in documentaries some soldier even had a similar one mounted on a G36 stock so its not fictional anyone know whats its called?

Answer: its a garmin gps unit. https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=257&ra=true#

==KNIFE==
http://www.coldsteel.com/gitanto.html this is Soaps Knife in the end.

Well I believe the knife that Soap used at the end is the "Boker Plus Tactical Tanto Fixed", as this knife has been reported to be quite recently issued to the Armed Forces.

Here is a picture of the knife.[[Image:http://www.heinnie.com/uploads/images_products_large/3158.jpg]]

:Your picture doesn't work. Beyond that, this game has nothing to do with what is actually issued to armed forces(Russians with the AUG? Brazilians with the F2000?) so that's not really evidence tbh... [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 22:03, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I know this is slightly off topic, but does anyone know the main knife that's used in-game? You know, the one used for the regular knifing animation, for the tac-knife, and for the throwing knife? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:52, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

That's a blackhawk tatang.

http://www.blackhawk.com/Catalog/DisplayImage.aspx?ImgURL=http://www.blackhawk.com:80//CatalogImages/18-4-IMG1_L.jpeg&Title=Tatang

==USP==
Wouldn't the USP be a USP teactical. The tacticals have threaded barrels as present on the in game USPs. Or are they some kind of hybrid because they don't use the tactical sights?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

The USP in game is a normal USP .45, the only difference is the threaded barrel. The Tactical has a bunch of other differences including the sights. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:47, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

That's my point. Since it has both the characteristics of a tactical and a normal USP would it be a hybrid?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Maybe, let's call it a USP .45 Custom then. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:13, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Now that I take a closer look at it, the slide has sights that look more like the HK45 than the USP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:52, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

:You could put different sights on the USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Yes but this USP has a threaded barrel so... Aw crap. If we could see the slide we could just say it was a tactical or a USP but it's just some crazy ass combo USP.

Edit*
Nvm I just popped in the game. On the side it said USP without tactical so it is a USP with a threaded barrel.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

It's not that hard to thread a barrel to accept a supressor... [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:10, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It's called a Heckler and Koch USPSD45, just like the MP5SD's, and there is also a USPSD9.

Actually it should be called a Heckler & Koch USP Tactical because it can accept a suppressor and then depending on caliber if it's 9mm, .40 S&W or .45. It's not officially called USPSD45 like the MP5SD. I like to see where did you read that calls it that. Never trust game names of a gun as fact [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:48, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
:Damn straight, nobody calls it a "USPSD". To the anon post above, the SD series of MP5s have an integral suppressor, not a detachable one like the USP does. Even with the MP5, if it has an attached suppressor(like the USP), and not an integral one, it's not called an MP5SD. Likewise, a USP with an attached suppressor is not called a USPSD. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 09:00, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
::There is an USP variant called the USP9 SD, at least according to HKPRO.com, which is just an USP9 with threaded barrel and taller sights. But USPSD45? No such thing. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 09:09, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS ironsights==
I have identified the ironsights used on the FAMAS in-game. They are folding rail-mounted BUIS from Midwest Industries. Interestingly, they are also the standard sights that come with the RobArms XCR (which I really wish was in more games).

They put those sights there because the FAMAS' original notch and post sights, IMO, suck, and because it gives them a rail to mount the other sights on to. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:05, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

It looks more like a Troy sight. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 06:10, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==ACR==
Since it's the military version in-game, shouldn't it be referred to as the '''Remington''' ACR? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:01, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
:Oh, wait, it is. Never Mind. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:02, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Its being made by bushmaster. Why the remington logo?
:Bushmaster is making the semi-auto only civilian version, Remington is making the selective-fire military/LE version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:14, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

really? i thought remington bought the ACR from them completely [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:20, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Interesting news. The ACR has now been officially released and it the ACR in MW2 is a fake combination of parts. The ACR Basic Configuration has the original handguard from the Magpul Masada, but a different skeleton stock similar to the Magpul MOE or CTR stocks. The ACR Enhanced Configuration has the new squared-off CR handguard with rails and the more iconic ACR stock. The ACR in-game, however, has the ACR Basic handguard (don't be fooled by the fact that there are rails, it's just the original Masada handguard with rails attached) and the ACR Enhanced stock. I'd call it a Magpul Masada, seeing as the trademarks and such aren't discernible as anything real. --[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 19:34, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Seeing as the in-game model is taken directly from the ACR featured on FutureWeapons, which was the Magpul version, that makes sense. -CC

==Taped Mags==
I noticed that several of the assualt rifles have tape wrapped around the magazines, is this for a specific reason or just a choice made by the makers? [[User:Death|Death]]

Lots of soldiers in the army tape the ends of their mags to distinguish theirs from a buddies, or the mags that they actually bought if they feel their issued ones were overused or sub par. Some also put grip tape so sweaty hands don't slip when pulling them from their pouches. I'm sure game designers saw this and included it. [[User:Winglebest]]

i thought that so whether you put the mag in bottom up or not, you'd know which end to put into the magazine well.
:anyone who's been properly trained with firearms wouldn't do that. Full magazines always go into the pouch with the brass facing down.

Actually when i use Mag Pouches i go brass up to make sure theirs no debris in the Mag.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

^^^I think it's pretty good, I'm stoked to get it online.

::Same here, I heard it has fairly good range and damaged when stacked up to the other shotguns, it just has a slower ROF, due to the lever action. you can dual wield them though, which says something. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:It's one of the only shotguns with the furthest range out of the lot in MP, this and steady aim and it's a monster in it's own. Like you said M14, it has a low ROF and the second smallest capacity next to the ranger [[Draco122|Draco122]] 21:06, 26 November 2009

::Actually it doesn't. I picked an 1887 up off a dead guy today, and was amazed. first thing is, that it has stunning range. Easily the best, can hit damn close to 50 feet. It holds 7 shots in MP as well, and you can dual wield them, cocking them T2 style. It's a beast of a shotgun, and I can't wait to unlock it for myself. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::Isn't this weapon the Winchester 1897 shotgun, originally designed for trench warfare and used by the US military thru Vietnam (and plenty are still in use by civilians in the US). In playing COD 5: World at War, I haven't found the shotguns to be particularly effective. The Japanese NPCs are often so quick (esp in the higher difficulty level) that they are on you before you can chamber another round (esp in the section of the game where you have to destroy a howitzer with a 3 barreled 25mm AA gun and quickly take up a covered position to eliminate the Japanese counter-attack using a scoped Springfield). Two Japanese soldiers immediately attack you. I was killed more often using the shotgun than using the Type 100 or the .30 belt-fed machine gun--whose name just eluded me.

:::As for COD6:MW2, I have yet to run into the 1897. With so many high tech weapons (and the bewildering array of Russian weapons in the Sgt Roach and Pvt Ramirez sections), why bother with such an obsolete weapon given the effectiveness of the ASC45 (?) that's standard issue for Rangers & Special Forces, esp when there are smg/shotgun combos available. Or the incredible arsenal in Makarov's safe house?

:::[[User:Newsjunkie356|Newsjunkie356]] 23:58, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: It's not an 1897, it's an 1887, being lever-action not pump-action. That and it's styled after the Terminator 2 shotgun anyway.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:03, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

== Bullet Types ==
What is this about the Tavor being loaded with FMJ's? Is this supposed to mean that along with choosing weapon attachments, we also get to choose bullet types? - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]

A bit too confusing now lol, I'm thinking it will just be a perk, because if im right fmj's give higher velocities, but i couldn't see how this would affect the game, in cod 4 all bullets moved at the same speeds?

Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?

What i understand is that FMJ are solid bullets and the only bullets "allowed" in warfare from the Hague Conventions.

True, but but a "Black" operation such as this would hardly be concerned with the rules of "conventional warfare." =P

The Theory behind JHP (Jacketed Hollow Points) is that upon impact of the target the nose of the bullet mushrooms to a much larger size the then original diameter(caliber) of the bullet causing a larger wound channel and more "stopping power"

The downside to this is that since JHP expand during impact the force of the bullet is dispersed over a larger area on the target making these bullets less likely to pierce body armor, also some HP bullets give certain firearms trouble when cycling this ammo. my 1911 for instance... =)

Your 1911's feeding of hollow point has to do with the type of 1911 usually. Different kinds of feeding ramps I'm told. My series 70 Gold cup has the same problem but my Springfield TRP feeds just fine.
FMJ's moving at Higher velocities has to do with air drag, hollow points would create more of it. As others have said hope this helps, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong.

But basically all bullets work well for their intended applications. its just that in this day and age there are so many options for a person to use its just matching the bullet to the task. Hunting, Target, Match, Self-defense, Low recoil or "Cowboy" Loads, Plinking. Its endless. -Furious Oyster (feel free to expand or remove if incorrect or unnecessary, just trying to help)

well... I didn't exactly want a bullet discussion, i was just wondering how this would affect the game, like if infinity ward would make it horrible and make stuff like hollow points do something like 4 times damage but only go as far as a "Call of Duty Shotgun". - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]

"Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?"- I just read alot on firearms :P but i remember coming across it?

As far as i know there is an international convention that bans the use of hollow point bullets and other expanding bullets for millitary purposes.

:That would be the Hague Convention. But from what I understand, it bans their use against ''state-employed combatants'' only, leaving them fair game for counter-terrorism ops and the like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

FMJs could be like the perk "Deep Impact"?

They are an attachment for the guns that gives them a little extra damage and better penetration through walls too.

== Extended Magazines Attachments ==
Thought it was pretty cool, but will it be like a drum mag or something like bandolier, what ever it is i hope it applies to assault rifles.

[[Image:Ump45em.jpg|400px]]

:Could be a dual mag clip, so you can reload faster. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 00:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
:: Magazine dammit!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:11, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
He said a clip that holds two magazines together for a speedier reload - Mythekal
:::Huh. i never heard of that before. Good point, Mythekal.

Lol its still a mag Mythekal!

its usually just a metal or plastic part that latches to both mags allowing you to just pull out the used one move it to the left and reinsert the fresh mag... Some times its just a piece of tape. Google AR-15 mag couplers or something. -Furious Oyster (Sorry miss read it)

I knew what a dual mag clip is, i was merely trying to explain it to who ever thought that M14Fan said "Clip" instead of Magazine. And here is a picture to avoid further confusion. -[[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]

[[Image:Dual_Mag_clamp.jpg‎|200px]]

There better be an attachment like this for the AA-12, cause its gonna get really annoying reloading that lousy 8-shot magazine every five seconds after unloading on someone lol-ArmoredMason619

Apparently the extended mags are exactly what you think. They take the standard magazines of any gun and just add like 10 more rounds to it. I don't know about the reload animation, but most likely it's the same. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

the extended mags look exactly the same and reload the same they've just got more rounds- red raindog

==Barret .50==

At the end of the Flag Runner video FourZeroTwo has a Barret M82. May not be, but it looks like one and sounds like one, it's a little blurry so i wasn't sure? -Final Tsurugi

It looks like a Barrett XM500 - Mythekal

How did i not notice that, actually might be a Barrett M99? - Final Tsurugi

:Or it could be the M107, the updated M82. ][[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy] 01:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

It wasnt the M99 because it was firing semi-automatically, and from the angle, the magazine was not visible, so i assume it was a bullpup - Mythekal

It is a Barret M82/M107, if you pause the video at the right moment you can see the magazine in front of the grip, i actually got excited to think we might have a bull-pup sniper in Modern Warfare 2 :P -Final Tsurugi

Nope. Youre all wrong, I mean you got the .50BMG part right, but its actually an Accuracy International AS50. Come on guys I cant be the only one who noticed that-Kellers357
I'm almost positive that it is not an AI. It is just a M107 [[User:mythekal|mythekal]]

Most definitely a Barret 82/M107. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

It is an M82A1, just like in COD4. M107's actually larger than the M82, but has less recoil because of its internal design. --[[User:Frostbite249|Frostbite249]] 13:42, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Brazillian Militia? ==

They better make the main character waste the militia alongside the Brazilian Army or the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batalhão_de_Operações_Policiais_Especiais BOPE] or I am not buying it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

:I actually like that causal outfit the militia wear :)
::Me too. I never seen a Brazilian wear a 1980s Miami Vice style flower shirt, but i do like how they have militia wearing Brazilian football team shirts. Makes it more realistic. I like the flower shirts though. They are cheesy as hell. It fits the game. Also, Please sign your posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah Miami vice ftw :) --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

== Taskforce 141 = Rainbow Six ==

A multinational commando unit? The moment I read that, I immediately thought Rainbow and well we really can't complain what kinds of weapons these guys uses since they are a fictional unit like Rainbow so they can use whatever they want. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
:I was expecting the task forece to be from the UN. That would be cool.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::But if they say they are are UN taskforce makes the team sound kinda...pointless Like the UN does anything. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I though Rainbow Six was a UN Task Force? Anyway, a movie or televison series about a UN Uber badass task force that were formed to catch international criminals would be really cool. The problem with the UN is that they try to be neutral and being neutral doesn't do anything. The UN should be reformed to be more of a International police that works against international criminals and make international laws.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I like the UN the way it is. What you're talking about sounds like the first step to a totalitarian society.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:What i'm talking about is stuff like Resolution 84. I also like the UN the way it is but, they fail at quick responses to genocide such as the Rwandan Genocide in 1994.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
In general they fail at mostly any response. They just don't have the power to back up their enforcement of peace. Any peace keeping force with too much power can be oppressive. Who will keep the peace keepers in check when they're suppose to keep us in check? Quite the dilemma. I just don't think the idea of the U.N. or anything similar can work.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:The United States shall keep the UN in check, without US, there is no UN. They need us more than we need them. It might seem like typical arrogant American mentality, but from how things are, the US has more indirect influence and handle over the entire world. We are the world's insurance policy, the self proclaimed enforcer, guardian, peacekeeping super power despite all our internal problems with crime, money and other things, but because of our population and how relatively young our nation is, the intense diversity in culture and believes keeps us in check. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
::...and this is why the rest of the world laughs at you. The UN uses the US for two things: money and muscle. If we need a billion dollars-worth of hardware and a couple of divisions of witless jocks to drive it around, you're who we go to. The two hardest things about a UN mission are coming up with a spin which makes the Yanks feel self-important and translating your orders from French to American English.
::The Problem is when someone like Bush Jr. comes up and s everything up. Could you imagine having someone like him being President of The United States during the Cold War? Anyway, The UN did have a really good quick response to the North Korean invasion of South Korea. We almost had North Korea. If weren't for the goddamm chinese.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
: Yeah if it weren't for them all this Kim Jong Il shit wouldn't be happening and we wouldn't be about to go to war in Korea-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 18:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
::Hey Smith, if someone is at fault for not winning the Korean War and not having only one Korea, is Mao. Truman also kinda ed up by telling the 7th Fleet to enter the Taiwan Straits.
:::Um, Task Force 141 is a play on Task Force 121, which in real life is a (dare I say) black ops verison of JSOC. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

I think the Task Force 141 is referring to Task Force 145 in reality. Task Force 145 is a joint force combining US and UK special forces

Task Force 121 was in no way a Black Ops Unit. It was, as 145 is, a multinational military unit assigned dircetly to counter-terrorism. Task Force 121 no longer exists it is now known as 145, which is what Task Force 141 in the game is based off of.

team rainbow was made to combat terrorism the old commander of ranbow is was a navy seal and a cia agent. he is the guy in clear and present danger is his name mr. clark.

Yeah that's from the original book, Rainbow Six. The games are all based around it. He was and Ex-SEAL who was recruited by the CIA and became an Operator[a Spy, if you wanna be movie technical.]. His name was John Clark.

:My Rainbow Six history isn't what it used to be, but I'm pretty sure John Clark was just the director of Rainbow and didn't do much field work (most of which was left to Ding Chavez, at least until the Vegas games when he was promoted to Six and Logan and Bishop were brought into the picture). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

True, he didn't do much feild. About all he did in the basis of feild work was at the end of the novel where they hunt down the Bio-terrorist's and chase them to their secondary base in Brazil. He run's the show basically as Feild Commander.

Task Force 141 in-game is made-up of an unknown amount of countries military. The three that you can definately tell are, U.S. Military, British S.A.S., and Australian S.A.S.

== FAL Please ==

I know one of the screenshots show's what appears to be an MD-2, but I still wanan see a FAL in MW2. I'm getting annoyed by G36Cs and M16s and G3KA4s in all these games. The FAL was a true combat rifle, and I do has want (sorry for net speak)--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 20:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: I absolutely agree with the above statement-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Me too but, the MD-2 is good enough for me. And it is Brazilian! That makes me proud of being Brazilian.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: I like the Imbel also, its a pretty solid gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Which Imbel? Imbel is the manufacturer.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Their FAL copy with the fixed stock (it's the only one I've held)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Those are just called FN FALs.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:::The Imbel is great and all, but the FAL is a solid 7.62 rifle. Also, I noticed they're using the AUG A1, not A3 for MW2. I'm pleased with that as the original AUG model was always my favorite.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:08, 26 June
2009 (UTC)

== TDI "Kriss" ==
I know the Kriss is going to be hyped in MW2, as its a powerful .45 ACP SMG that has virtually no recoil and great accuracy. But the guys at IW won't let such a perfect gun into multiplayer, because it'll turn into a noob weapon fast. My bet's on that they purposely change one of it's stats to make it more balanced. Any guesses on what they'll take away from it? My bet is make it less powerful.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
:There IS recoil in the Kriss. Every gun has recoil.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
::True, but it varies what the recoil force actually ''does'' and how much of it the user feels; the recoil has to go somewhere, but it can be towards things like fighting the gun's own muzzle climb by shoving a weight downwards [as with the Kriss], stopping a barrel that's moving forwards [as with the XM307 / XM312], or quite a number of other things. The general idea is that the Kriss has very light felt recoil for its weight [less than half the weight of a Thompson] because of the novel operating system. And I imagine they'll either limit the magazine, turn it into a peashooter or make it horribly inaccurate. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 02:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Or Infinity Ward could make the Kriss a Kicking Rad gun that you will get when you reach the highest level. An all around gun.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 02:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
::::What about the Rate of Fire? i don't remember if the Kriss had a high R.O.F. or not
:::::From the Future Weapons video I watched on the Kriss, it seems to have an average MP5 like rate of fire. But if IW does let the Kriss go all out, it'll be revenge of the pwned when people get a hold of it. Take that noob tubers! Have some .45 slugs in the face!--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
::Hey man, the noob tube is awesome.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

::People who hates tubers are just gamers. Sure I get off when I get hit in the face by an M203, but hell, I use one too. It's a very good field weapon. In combat, there is no such thing as cheap shot. There's hit and miss. Even in games, if you killed a guy, it's a kill, doesn't matter how you did it, unless you used cheats, but I use the M203 all the time, and 2 shells is what you get in multiplayer, so quit complaining, those on the recieving end of my tube. Now the P90 was a widely used gun for noobs cause of it's high ROF and mag capacity and with the slight of hand perk, you can reload the faster than you could in real life[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
:::People who complain about tubes in modern games don't remember the days of real noob-tubes, back when the 203 was your alt fire, had realistically-sized splash and had a zero arming distance, and a newbie could easily end a game with a positive score just by firing it point-blank whenever they had more than one person in front of them. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 07:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree i just hate the loss of a perk its better than juggernaut.--[[User:Panther61DC08|Panther61DC08]] 20:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

::ANYTHING is better then juggernaut man. And yeah, I use the M203 from time to time, but people who use it constantly should really just go sit down.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Most online gamers are idiots who most likely don't know the difference between a bullet and a bolt carrier, so they're going to label anyone who kills them a [insert gun name here] noob. If you kill them with an M4, you're an M4 noob. If you kill them with a P90, you're a P90 noob. If you kill them with a shotgun, you're a shotgun noob. It never ends. The point of playing a game is to have fun, so I'm gonna use what I like to use (including the 203) regardless of what everyone else thinks about it. If I nail some tit in the face with a 40 mike-mike, they can whine and cry "noob tuber" all f'n day, it isn't going to change that I put a 40 mike-mike into their face. Only thing about me is that I can do it from a block away (an in-game block, I mean), rather than at point blank. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:I have a Class that it's specialty is to piss people off. Yes, i am a asshole. BUT, i am a professional asshole.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

:As far as the Kriss goes they sure as hell have never fired it (which disappoints me that they put all these exotic weapons in that they really havent touched... in COD4 they actually fired most of the weapons and that gave it a level of authenticity) so i dont think they'll pay attention to the fact that it takes most of the recoil for you. when you fire it youll probably be shooting all over the place with heavy recoil -Mandaloin

::Well looky here, an icon for picking up a "FAL Red Dot sight" In the Multiplayer trailer. There is a god, because the FN FAL has finally made it into an awesome game![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 05:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

The Kriss does seem to have a comparably short barrel to the UMP. IW could lower the damage due to the lower velocity? not sure what barrel length is ideal for .45ACP but I just thought that could be used as a reason to balance? that and the Kriss only uses the .45 Glock pistol mags correct? so maybe your attachment is an extended mag to help compete? -FuriousOyster

:From what we've seen, the Kriss in MW2 is already being used with the experimental 26 round magazine currently being developed for the gun. As for barrel length, it's on par with the UMP, plus its shorter overall. Who knows, maybe IW will just make the Kriss what it is in real life, a hard and precise hitting sub machine gun. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Apparently IW got the Kriss right on how controllable it is when firing on full auto. It doesn't go all over the place. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:The Vector is stunningly good. A bit down on power, but accurate and it can handle it's high ROF. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Been unlocking the attachments for the Vector and it is kind of nerf on the power. It's really not the strong, but has a high rate of fire and accuracy [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

==FN P90==
Why haven't anyone added the P90? It has been confirmed and in the E3 trailer there was a pickup icon for the P90 and it said "Press # to ick up P90"
:Did you miss [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Modern_Warfare_2#FN_P90TR this?]-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

== Re-added ==
Hey evryone Activision has decided to re-add the Call of Duty prefix back to the Modern Warfare 2 title making the game now being called: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, instead of just Modern Warfare 2? Actvision added the Call of Duty prefix because of the lowered awareness of the Call of Duty series [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 17:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:So we're changing the name again on this site? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::The changing is not official yet. They're still calling the game "''Modern Warfare 2''" (source: [http://kotaku.com/5315981/infinity-ward-talks-modern-warfare-2-43-stories-up]). In fact, nobody at Activision or Infinty Ward ever called the game "''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2''", search any quotes you want. Also, the hardened and prestiges editions (collector versions) don't have "''Call of Duty''" on their boxes.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 14:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

i luv p-90 its awesome. i'v been playing modern warefare for one week now and what i did was i got bling pro(allows you to chose 2 perks) and i took a p-90 and put akimbo and rapid fire. its CRAZY. whenever your in close quarters with that combo, your invincibal.

-evilmidget25

ps il be online soon, its been three months and ill be back on chrismas

== Walther WA2000 ==
Does someone has an ingame picture of this game, because I doubt its presence in the game. And there is no use for a weapon to be listed if there is no proof.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
:I strongly concur with Phantom. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 17:16, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

"People, it's there in-game. Not in any of the missions I've seen, but I use it all the time in Spec-ops, Then gilly suited russians try to kill me with it when I play the chernobyl mission. there is a Frowny Face sticker on the inside of the scope cover. Very funny!" -Camden

Only a hundred-something were ever made. just saying [[SargeOverkill]]

== Behold, a really, really silly bundle: ==

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=219720

I can understand doing that for something like a ''Splinter Cell'' bundle (sorta), but... [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 08:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

:I'm so getting that... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

NVG's that max out to 50 feet, failll

:*facedesk* Behold, NVGs for less then 200 with a $70 game and art book, Who wants to bet those are made by a company who's name you can't pronounce and is based in a country that rhymes with Dina? Anyhow, I already pre-ordered the standard game, I don't need fancy art books and hard cases and crappy NVGs, I just want what may be the best FPS ever created, period. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
::You just call that game the best FPS ever created? You tried using a shotgun? The guys who made it know nothing of shotguns and the fact that you can't change firing modes, and that if you don't use the sights you can't hit the broad side of a barn even if you put the barrel against it! --[[User:T.H.M.Christensen|T.H.M.Christensen]] 02:20, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
::I'm don't want the nod to use, I just want them as a bad-@$$ display for the living room. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:::And they actually function pretty well. I can make out the stop sign at the entrance to the complex I live in, and it's quite a bit further away than 50 feet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:13, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

== Cover Restoration ==
Does anyone have any unique or expensive software to put this image on the front page?

[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Cover.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Original]]
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Final.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The best I could do.]]

It's not the standard edition box.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:06, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

== SPAS-12? ==
Do you think this shotgun is a SPAS-12? Since we were shown that there is one in this level during a gameplay demo, it could be possible.
[[Image:MW2shotgunspa.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

its a FAMAS- the folded bipod

:Nope, it's a WA2000

::The Walther WA2000 has a "skeletal" look to it and is a bolt-action sniper rifle. This image shows the weapon having a pump gauge at the bottom, meaning that it must be some sort of shotgun, as opposed to the WA2000's bolt-action. <s>Besides, I may be mistaken since I don't pay much attention to the FAMAS, but the last time I checked, the FAMAS didn't have a folding stock.</s> --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I didn't see that you meant "bipod", not "stock". I don't see the point in the FAMAS having one of those, either. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

It's not a shotgun, the "handgrip" is too long to be a pump like you were saying, i agree with the fact that it is a WA2000, it has the same front end and flash hider as the walther. By the way, the walther can be either semi or bolt action.

yeah i think its a Wa200 too, you can even see a fat ol' scope and a bipod on it. look real close for the scope.

Now that I think about it, it looks more of a WA200, if not a SPAS-12, and it is definitely not a FAMAS. And please, fellas, sign your edits. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 17:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

==M4==

The M4 used in the game had been confirmed as a Bushmaster M4. According to one of the guys working on MW2 he has told in the Call of Duty wikia that the M4 is a Bushmaster M4.... Could someone add that??

:wheres the proof?

::As of now, nothing can be added to the main article since there are no sources or evidence that provide the actual facts. Do you happen to have a link of the official statement? I think what he means is that the M4 (when mounted with sights or scopes) looks like a Bushmaster ORC (Optics-Ready Carbine), since it's rear and front sights are already removed. But just because it looks like it doesn't mean it has to be a Bushmaster. And again, guys, please sign your edits. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The M4 IS a Bushmaster! And proof is right here on IMFDB! I took this from the pic of Soap and enlarged it.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm97/SpartanWarrior198/Soap_Bushmaster_M4.jpg

Snake logo on the mag well is Bushmaster's. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
:And I just noticed Soap is wearing US Army UCP, as well... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:So what? In this fictional universe, Bushmaster makes all the M4s? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

::Well, true, but this is a video game set in the near future. It could very well be possible that Bushmaster took over M4 production from Colt (since their exclusivity agreement expired back in June) in the Modern Warfare world.[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
::And I doubt IW would put two or more different identical "M4s" in the game. I can see an M4 and HK416 or REC7 put side-by-side in the game because there are some slight external differences (and caliber increase in the case of the REC7), but there'd be no point in having separate Colt and Bushmaster M4s, both virtually identical externally, at the same time. But then again the still above could very well be just promotional with a Bushmaster put in because it's all they had available to model. But we'll find out for sure Nov. 10th... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmm... Bushmaster may have used the Call of Duty franchise to advertise for their weapons, as seen on the lower receiver of the M4. Maybe likely, maybe not; but it is a possibility. Cheers, --{{User:Blemo/Sig}}
::::HK did it with R6, so why can't Bushmaster do it with MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:: Whats with all the reflex sights, they do that in way to many games, if you look at the weaponry issued to SOF in america, they all use Aimpoints, ACOGs or Eo-Tec's so why do game designers feel the need to put in Reflex. every SWAT department in america has EO-Tecs on their M4s not a reflex sight.
::::It is only in this picture that the Bushmaster snake logo is present. In-game, the model has a horse on the lower receiver, similar to Colt's "prancing pony" logo. --{{User:Blemo/Sig}}

==Winchester 1887==

No way this is a winchester 1887, you have to out of your mind to think that.
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:MW2Winch1887.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Winchester1887shotgun.jpg

yeah dude there's one in there, it must be like a cheat code to get it but there is a picture.

I dought you need a cheat code to get it as the enemy you can kill and take their weapons have it.
Also it could be the Chinese copy.
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

There was a ''Public Ennemies'' version of the weapon which was closer to the one in the screenshot, but it has been deleted.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

:I think it would be peculiar to have the old lever shotgun in MW2, but definitely a cool choice of gun. It may not be the fastest or most powerful, but it has nostalgia and cool to it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

It could be like the Stg-44 from COD4, a retro weapon.
It was called MP44 in Cod4 not Stg-44 that was in W@W just trying to help. -FuriousOyste
: The MP44/StG-44 was only in CoD4 as a nod to the other games in the franchise which are all set during WW2. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you can unlock Price's mustache as a nod to his awesomely awesome mustache from MW1? =D -FuriousOyster

Since IW seem to be going along the "fun" route while still sticking to a semi-realism point of view, it's probably safe to assume this was added as a "fun gun". It's likely with the recent videos of the "Flag Runner" and the addition of throwing knives there adding weapons that no serious soldier would use in direct combat but would be awesome to use a video game multiplayer match. It's possible they added it as a reference to Terminator 2, I wonder if they'll add the M79 and a portable minigun... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:11, 02 September 2009 (UTC)
:There should be two reload animations. The first one you reload normally but in the second one you reload like the T-600, With one goddamm hand.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

::That was only chambering fresh rounds, not reloading it, but I see your poit. Either way though, having an old school lever action shotty will surely make things, uh, interesting? And throwing knives will just attract goddamn ninjas. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

:::Ninjas that I'll gladly lay waste to in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::::Amen to that man, they can throw all the knives they want, but that won't stop them from taking a burst of FAL rounds in the chest. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Good luck getting a burst out of your FAL --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 05:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

:"Those who live by the sword get shot by the ones who don't". Ninja's were cowards anyways. They retreated rather than fought most of the time-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:05, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

::Not to mention that was against bows and arrows, not automatic rifles. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

for the reload animations I think the shells are being loaded in to the barrel!!

:No my friend, thats just how you load a lever shotgun. The tube you load the shells in to is the magazine, and the tube below it is where they eject from when you cock the gun after a shot. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Don't debate on the articles ==

Stop debating on the page do it in here that's what it is for.
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

:I am confused you say not to debate here but then you say to debate here. I am new to this.
::Jake, can you speak english?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::I mean don't debate on the main page with the articles it clutters it.--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 05:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::What Jake means, is that to hold all disputes, comments, and debates on the discussion (talk) page, instead of the article itself. The page you are looking at is the talk page and you should type any comments on this page. If you look at the top, there are seven tabs (varies on your status and monobook of the wiki), but for more users, it says, "page, discussion, edit, +, history, move, & watch". Make sure the "discussion" tab is pressed before you make your edit. Typing in the tab that says "page" makes the article look unprofessional and a hassle to read. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::I'll move all the discussion here...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 13:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

== Glock ==
The GameTrailers Analysis states that it is a [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22]], but this is unconfirmed. It could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] since in the video demo shown at the E3 conference, it fires fully automatically.
[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] - 9x19mm. This model has compensator cuts on the slide and barrel to reduce muzzle climb while firing]]
[[Image:MW2Glock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A [[Glock]] fired by "Roach" on a snowmobile in Mission "Cliffhangar". Note olive-drab frame.]]
[[Image:MW2SpOpGlock.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This US special ops has a olive-drab framed Glock in his thigh holster (barely off-shot).]]

*An interesting note is that the Glock fires dramatically slower than a Glock 18 or other converted Glocks. The Glock from the video's rate of fire is only around 600-700 RPM, where as a real Automatic Glock fires around 1100+ RPM -- Mythekal

:The guy COULD just be firing in semi VERY fast so that it seems like it's full auto. A lot of the handguns in COD4 if you tap the trigger in quick successions, it seems almost full auto [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". Glock 18's did not have this color available. Glock 22's just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a Glock 18 with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.

:::Not to disagree with you, I mean, you strike a really good point, but I've seen video game companies butcher their weapons into having colors or functions that they don't even have in the first place. Perhaps this is the case, although highly unlikely. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 17:08, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Not sure if anybody noticed, but the G18s in game does not have a selector switch - JanG

The Glock 18 can come with OD frames http://www.teamglock.com/Glock-Buyers-Guide/Glock-18.htm

== H&K USP .45 ==
Shown in a stage demo for GameSpot, Roach wields it with a knife at the same time. There is a similar technique where you do this with a flashlight. If someone would care to name it please do as I forgot for the moment.

*Take your pick from CQC, CQB, Combatives or Defendu. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
** The particular technique shown below with the support arm under the wrist of the main arm indexing the flashlight along the axis of the barrel is called the Harris Method. In this case it's being done with a knife presumably because it looks cool.
*** It's actually done for CQC and not just cause it looks cool. A similar method to this is what Snake does on MGS.But he holds the Knife with the gun by the grips.Perhaps the Harries method is more comfortable than Snake's CQC method,so they made it that way.
****
[[Image:HK-USP.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch USP .45 ACP. Note the slightly longer barrel/slide and grip compared to the 9mm and .40 S&W models above.]]
[[Image:USP_with_knife.JPG|thumb|none|400px|]]

== Akimbo ==

*Need some confirmation on this as I cant find any videos or images of this, supposedly the player is now able to Dual wield or go Akimbo with Pistols, particularly twin desert eagles were seen in a demonstration during a show off session to fans.

This is one of the websites with this article:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/08/27/modern-warfare-2-has-guns-akimbo/1

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]

:There was a screenshot of the Desert Eagle being held akimbo during a gameshow in Vegas (the name of which I forgot...) I'm not sure if it was already added to the article, but I'll take a look. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 04:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Now Akimbo? I'm having less and less faith in this new game with most of these cliche shit added on. We got too many kinds of new guns enough to put Rainbow Six to shame, odd matches for people and prototype guns in wide use. This game went from pretty cool to up down cliche generic shooter. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

== Leaked Video ==

Found this video while searching the net on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FuwFT4p5hA

At 1:28 there appears to be a new weapon, it looks like it says "Shotgun" but the video is low qaulity and I'm having a hard time finding out what it is? The icon image looks similar to that of a Saiga shotgun but I'm not sure. From the looks of it, the IMI Mini Uzi will be making a return.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]

[[Image:Mw2brazilshotgun.png]] I think it says (litterally) "FAL w/ Shotgun"... Shotgun attachment?!--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

MASTERKEY! that would be awesome! on the other hand... COD4 shotguns were pretty pointless. so I doubt an even shorter barreled one would be worth it.

:Yeah, there have been rumors of an under-slung shotgun attachment. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 04:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

::That does surely say FAL with Shotgun, as it matches the shape of the other FAL seen in a trailer, sweet! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

also confirmed in game masterkey is avalible -scarecrow

== Continuity Error(??) ==

Perhaps, in the E3 Gameplay video, the Infinity Ward boyz made a continuity error. If you will, note that Roach is first seen using a USP .45, but later, on the snowmobile, he switches to a Glock 18/22/whatever. Just a thought.

:Doubt it. games arn't that sloppy. Its probably given to you when you board the snowmobile because firing a semiautomatic weapon while you are going pretty fast wouldn't help much unless you have a very steady hand. better to have a wide spread than accuracy when you cant predict the enemy that well. [[user:5t3v0|5t3v0]]

::Well apparently you are able to equip 3 weapons?, but that still wouldn't explain how he got that glock.

:::What 5t3v0 says is true. Video game developers aren't that sloppy and I think that the publishers purposefully made this so-called "continuity error". I think that the Glock is for use only for the snowmobile portion of the mission, since its high rate of fire (compared to the HK USP .45) is more ideal for tracking and shooting fast-moving vehicles. Many other video games during their vehicle missions use the same logic (i.e. a mounted machine gun on the snowmobile in [[007: Nightfire]]). --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 04:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::::There's one on each of the snowmobiles, There's a holster somewhere.

Okay first of all, i know you know its just a game, so thats my first statement, and my second is, who says you cant have another holster on you, one on your thigh, one on your rig, or two on both your thighs? and then you either have access to it in the game or you dont, and we can all pretend like roach just doesnt want to use it until the snowmobile thing or something like that.

== New mw video ==

Gentlemen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4PMRFkx07g

Damn, the MP5K Looks SWEET! And throwing knives? kick-ass!!! man as soon as this is released im disowning my copy of COD4.

== Double Barrel Shotty ==

According to the guys over at the COD Wiki, the Double barrel shotgun will make a return(from COD5), has anyone else seen this?

* It's possible with the inclusion of other "fun" weapons like the Winchester M1887 and Throwing knives, but I'm not going to get my hopes up about it... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:18, 02 September 2009 (UTC)

:Try not to include wiki as a source unless there's pics of the actual shotgun ingame. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:41, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

::The OXM stated that (Official Xbox Magazine). The DB shotgun will have separate trigger for each barrel.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:44, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

:::You said it will make a return, it never was in cod4, or are you referring to cod5? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 15:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

::::Sorry, shouldve been a little clearer, i was referring to cod5

== Mk14 Rifle ==

The Mk14 on the screenshot is not a Mk14 Mod0 battle rifle but a Mk14 Mod1 ([http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/albums/closeup/Mk_14_Mod_1.jpg]), the second modification. Still based on the M14/M1A battle rifle/semi-auto rifle, but using M4 grip and stock with the EBR chassis. The version used by soaped also seems to sport a Magpul MOE stock with cheek rest.

Now that I see that new picture on the page with the mk14 in it I think that it is also a mod 1. Who else is thinks so?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== Highrise Gameplay videos (Cam) ==

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/modern-warfare-2/11043

Just saw this today, the "trailer" section also has a trailer cam of a predator missile and a supply drop, it also shows off the UMP45.

The newer highrise videos show a few weapons in the game that would now be deemed confirmed to a degree. It's labelled 1 through 5 in parts. They all feature different guns, I remember seeing two icons, one which was thought to be a place holder, the L85 was displayed as the L86 LSW (maybe an attachment for the L85?) including a PP-2000 Akimbo. Other's include various MG's which I can't identify, a SPAS-12 shotgun in full view (with appropriate icon) and the FAMAS and UMP.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

:The videos from Gametrailers also seem to show a silenced SPAS 12, which should be fun.

[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:14, 16 September 2009

== New video confirms a few weapons==

A few weapons are probably confirmed by this video from Screwattack, PP-2000 amongst them.
http://www.screwattack.com/Events/MW2HandsOn
[[User:DAnnysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 14:39, 16 September 2009

:Just from watching, I saw the FAMAS, RPD, M4, SCAR, PP2000, AT4 (now a weapon not a perk, and more.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

everything in the game is now content locked. that means any weapon seen will be in the final game

happy hunting

Seems like the best place to write this:
There actually is an M249 in the game. In the last level in D.C., when you come out into the fighting in front of the White House and Sgt. Foley talks to some colonel or someone, if you walk all the way to the left there is a dead Ranger with an M249 mounted on the limb of a fallen-over tree. It's a mounted MG that cannot be moved and it does not overheat. It is definitely a M249.

==Zombie Mode==

Any idea if theyll have one?

No they wont. Instead they have a spec-ops mode. Besides, its not cool of Infinity ward to copy treyarchs thing. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]

Yeah, especially when Treyarch has made an entire career out of copying Infinity Ward

== Infamy (New Trailer) ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8toHfZm6jNE

The Guy in the Airport wearing a black suit (presumably this Makarov character) looks like he was carrying a SCAR-L but then I noticed the RIS rails to which it was just a regular M4. It was weird how they made look very similar to the SCAR-L, yet at 1:31 in the Infamy trailer there's a guy with outline of the SCAR-L. It looks like the "Mini-Uzi" is now confirmed to be apart of the machine pistol lineup of weapons. Also does anyone think the AK at 0:57 looks odd? Kinda looks to me like a AN-94. - [[Draco122|Draco122]] 07:07 05 October 2009

*The weapon Makarov was holding looked like an M4 to me, but I think your right about the Mini-Uzi being a machine pistol now. And as for the AK it looked like the rest of the AKs I've seen from ingame pictures and footage. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 20:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

:The guy is holding an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The Russian tactical team that responded to the airport attack were referred by Makarov as FSBs. Even though they did deploy from SWAT vans marked as FSB, the Russian soldiers actually wear MVD uniforms, meaning that they were actually interior troops.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 18:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Wall of guns ==

Just got this off of Gametrailers TV. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

[[Image:MW2wallofguns.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
*Too late, man.)

== Sentry Gun ==

On Gamesrader.com, an article on the impressions of MW2, mentions a Sentry Gun in the Kill Streak list. After doing some research, I've found a supposed concept of the Sentry Gun on Modernwarfare247.com. Apparently it seems to be the XM312 .50Cal fitted with a Camera. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

[[Image:Leaked-mw2-art-book-12.jpg|300px|thumb|none|XM312]]

maybe its a .50BMG on a CROWS-type system

:The Sentry Gun in the game is an M134 on a tripod, as I've used some in MP. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Screenshot==

The first two are Scars, the second has a Masterkey, the third with an ACOG doesnt quite look right, and I cant tell what the digital one is, any help?

[[Image:Mw2scars.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

The two on the right might be ACR's--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 03:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The digital one is the bushmaster ACR. It looks a little funny but that is it.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== W2000 ==

I'm not 100% certain on this, but isn't the W2000 a collector's sniper rifle? I mean this is a rather expensive sniper rifle made as a colector's rifle. So why would the military be using it in whatever war this game takes place in?

And we're supposed to know the thought process behind Infinity Ward's weapon decisions how?

Remember the game black where w2000s were just laying all over eastern europe?

:Yeah, ever since Black came out, WA2000s have been known to be laying all across Europe, ripe for the picking! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Haha Agent 47 spends thousands of dollars just to maintain one yet European armies can buy millions of them just to lay around randomly :P

From my play through, I can only find one. The one you see on the wall of guns picture.

I've seen them in several missions. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== Unfocused ==

This game is looking more and more gimmicky by the day. It's as if they're going all out to jam as much modern technology into the game as possible, whether it makes sense or not. Brazilian militia with FN F2000 assault rifles? Russian terrorists with the TDI Vector? ''Really''? --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 08:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's true that I feel the game is adding so much new stuff it won't be anything like CoD4. It bothers me that Infinity Ward is going over the top just because of its huge fanbase.
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

For those of you who have seen "Lord of War", remember Nicolas Cage's quote: "Where there's a will, there's a weapon." I'm sure that their theory for the MW2 universe is that some FN or TDI salesmen forgot who they were working for, and sold their latest & greatest weapons to the bad guys, and got paid more in a day or two than they would earn working for a decade. I believe that money is the most corrupting force on Earth. Also, I do recall a story about some F2000s winding up in the hands of a militia in East Timor a few years ago, and I'm not sure whether or not FN figured out how they got there. -KLR
:I've heard of this happening with a custom M14 maker. One of their people was rebuilding some MK14Mod0 on the side and smuggling them to the phillipines if i rememger correctly. The man was caught and is spending a long vacation is club fed. --[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

As much as I agree that the weapons are going a little crazy (how the hell do Brazilians in the slums of Rio get their hands on such powerful NATO weaponry?), remember this game isn't set in the present day, its sometime in 2016 I think. So who knows, in that year the rarer weapons of today may be more widely available. Unlikely I know, but possible. [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 10:45, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:And besides, the game would be very boring if everyone had AK's. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::Not exactly. Im not liking the whole high end weapons idea for militia. I would have been fine seeing militia using ak variants and other common battle rifles. --[[User:mythekal|mythekal]]

You must remember that all gangs in Rio get majority of there weapons from buying over seas and from corrupt military and police units, who themselves have stockpiles of powerful NATO weapons (M4s, AKs, FNs,etc.). And the Brazilian militia's leader is an Arms Dealer who has ties with the Ultranationalists, any Arms dealer that big can afford to give his men some much more flashier weapons! Also this is just a game too! --[[User:Choi117|Choi117]]

:In the first game the russians had g36cs, ak-47s, m9s and 1911s, not like, ak-74s and makarovs. In this they seem to have gone to just having tacticool bullpups and high-end everything.....I laugh if you pick p an m9 in brazil even though your infinitely more likely to get a taurus pt92.

One aspect of Modern Warfare 2 is notably the fact, that although not identified by developers, is the way in which the worlds runs, MONEY!, believe it or not but the American government has been dealing arms for years, all to up there pay check, the result is quite devastating, its give there own troops a disadvantage but what do they care money's, money, they would give nuclear weapons to iraq if there was enough money.

:Actually, the American government deals arms mainly to friendly nations and used to deal arms to CIA backed insurgencies. So, you know, they wouldn't be selling things like NUKES you moron. As far as the purchase of these weapons, just consider Mexico today: You have a 'military' (if you can really call the Mexican Army a military) where 250,000 soldiers have left to work for a drug cartel or just left the country, leaving their rifles with the cartels. Then you have those same cartels buying firearms from third world SA countries that were provided firearms by the US for insurgencies. Then you have cartels buying firearms from people very similar to Cage's character in Lord of War. In 2016, it's more than believable taht those dealers could be selling ill-gotten FN2000's to wherever they damn well please.

::I think that they are adding all of these guns because after Zakheav died the ultranationalists kinda fell apart and now they use anything they get their hands on so some of their guys probably decided too buy their own guns and thought they might as weel go big.

If you think this game is unfocused you haven't seen the 25 kill streak perk yet! A Freaking Tactical Nuke, I'm not joking: http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/modern-warfare-2-25th-killstreak/333858[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]
:That idea makes the game sound more ridiculous than it already is. This is way over the top now.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Can someone explain what "in egoview" means? pictures have the caption something like "the SPAS-12 in egoview " somethign like that. Is it suposed to mean first-person view, only written by someone with poor english?
:Presumably it refers to First-Person view. If you look, all the HUD text in those shots is in German. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

This is interesting discussion, but I have to say I think you guys are missing the point a bit. I'll cede the points about modern weapons being more proliferated in the CoD universe, and the one about the criminal factions (Militia, Ultranationalists) having large financial reserves, since this is fiction that's entirely possible. But, even if a criminal organization did have vast resources of cash, I'm sure they could find more important things to spend money on than outfitting their dime-a-dozen armed thugs with modern NATO assault rifles when they could just buy a bunch of AKs for a quarter of the price and be done with it, immensely simplifying training and logistics in the process. After all, what can a poorly trained, militia thug do with an FN2000 that they can't do with an AK-74? I guess my point is that the many iffy decisions made about the weapons in this game represent, to me, the entire ethos behind this series:''"Screw "logic" and "realism", let's just focus on making everything '''totally f**ing awesome''' ohlookanexplosion!"''

I guess I can't fault them, really, since this kind of attitude is right in line with the ''attention-deficit teenage douchebag'' demographic they're catering to nowadays. It just irritates me because it's basically the complete opposite of what I'm looking for in a war game, and I get all the more irritated every time I run into one of the aforementioned douchebags, fresh from playing this game, who thinks he's now some kind of authority on firearms. IW could be so much better if they wanted to. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 21:53, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

:Dead on the money Matt. What gets me is, a lot of criminal organizations NOW have, ahem, LARGE sums of money and cash. Hell, it's not like the Mafia or Russian Organized Crime are exactly "poor" organizations, but does anyone here think the average Mafioso or ROC thug is packing an FN2000, or a tricked out M4, or an AUG, etc? Hell, even a lot of the militant Islamic extremist groups are extremely well funded, yet, they're still packing AKs and RPGs. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 12:48, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you so much, Matt. Over Christmas break I visited my 16-year-old cousin who was just cleared by his father to play M-rated games. Guess which game he bought the minute he got this newfound freedom? Now he's trying to tell me how combat is really like the game and that "the Intervention is arguably the best firearm ever made." He also tried to argue when I told him it was really called a Cheytac M200. My god this game really turned out to bother me deeply. But joke's on me, I went out and bought it myself. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:06, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

== M21 EBR ==

Just to make sure no one changes it back. Even though it doesn't technically exist, that is what its called in game. The logic behind the name is: M21 (Sniperized M14) + M14 EBR (Modernized M14) = Modernized Sniperized M14 = M21 EBR

Alright, to be blunt, I LOVE the M14. Whenever I used one in Call of Duty 4, it was like the second coming of Jesus Christ. I just got done reading that the M14 used in this game is, as said above, a M21 EBR, and is classified as a sniper rifle. When I found that out I was extremely pissed. What I don't get though, is that in the Breach and Clear video that is out there, there is clearly a Mk. 14, with open iron sights. Based on all of this bullcrap, it appears that you will not be able to use the M14/Mk.14 EBR/M21 EBR/or-whatever-the-heck-we-are-calling-it without a scope. I am aware that MW2 is somehow sneaking out into people's Xbox's already, and I would greatly appreciate if someone could elaborate on this?[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 00:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:Putting a scope on a Mark 14 doesn't change its designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:52, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Been checking with various sources on M14's and this M21 EBR is just an M14 fitted into a Sage Stock. it's nothing more than the numerous M14's I've seen used as a DMR.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:35, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
:I say we just stick with calling it Mark 14 Mod 1 and note in the description that its in-game name is M21 EBR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
:And, while I've not yet played MP, every instance of Mark 14 use in SP refers to it as "M14 EBR". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:03, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::It's officially called the M21 EBR in MP. However a friend of mine tells me when fitted with an ACOG it makes for an alright assault type rifle. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::Still a Mark 14 as far as this site is concerned. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::And what pisses me off the most is that besides the scope and smaller magazine. it's a Mark 14 EBR. Why IW decided to turn it into a sniper is beyond me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::::I'd imagine they did it for balance, can't have a sniper rifle with a 20 shot magazine. Unless you get extended mags then maybe it might be better I dont know [[Draco122|Draco122]]

::::::I don't see how that's supposed to balance anything. 20 round magazine or not, a sniper rifle is still a sniper rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:::::::How much of a bump does extended mags do for the EBR anyhow? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::::::::I haven't gotten them yet myself, but I'll let you know when I do. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::You get a whole whopping 5 extra rounds. 15 round magazines. Yeah... [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 02:36, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::I've now heard rumors that in the spring DLC (mostly spec ops stuff) They're bringing back the G36C, The Skorpion, one of the sniper rifles, and the M14 will be back to an AR. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::::::::::I'm so sick of the G36C! Everywhere I got, everybody wants to have babies with a G36C! Let's have an HK53 instead this time, or a Mark 12 SPR. A Mark 12 Mod 1 SPR would be a fun. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::::It would be cool, but it would be VERY redundant to the M14 EBR, not that the G36C wouldn't be either, but all the snipers are almost exactly the same (look up the real stats, the ones in game arent right), I think adding any new sniper would be kinda dumb. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:54, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

(Moved from the M14 EBR section of the main page by [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]])
*The reason it has been labeled as the M21EBR is because it has been modified into a sniper rifle. The modification of any M14 into a sniper rifle changes it's classification to an M21.--[[User:Dethshadow170|Dethshadow170]] 22:47, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
** No, it just makes it an M14 with a scope. Case in point is the USMC issue M14 DMR. Fits the criteria of "M14 converted to sniper rifle", but still called an M14, not an M21. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:08, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
**Besides, just adding a scope to a gun doesn't change what gun it is. An M21 is not just an M14 with a scope as the Mk12 SPR/SAM-R/SDM-R is not just an M16 with a scope.--[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 21:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
*** By "modified into a sniper rifle" I was implying that it's full auto fire setting was disabled, plus the addition of the scope, bipod, etc.--[[User:Dethshadow170|Dethshadow170]] 22:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
****Actually, the majority of M14s left in the government arsenals were converted to semi-auto only fire early in their careers, because when it is fired in fully automatic, to quite one of the foremost arms experts Dr. Atwater, after the third round fired in full-auto, the M14 "becomes an anti-aircraft gun". You will occassionally see one M14 that lucked out of this modification (and I am sure that all of the ones the SEALs maintain in their own armories managed to escape it as well), but it is just not so effiecient when issued to everyday soldiers and is a recipe for a very powerful but also very inaccurate general issue rifle.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 17:01, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

== Two new videos ==
This is the level you get for beating the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhjh8KxFPkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czJEO8skB64

Damn good videos, I'll have a lot of fun with that museum :D Does this mean theres not going to be any semi-auto assualt rifles? Everything seems to be full auto in those videos...:( [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 19:38, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

in the video description it says that the person playing was using rapid fire.

They likely removed the use of the G3 and M14 from Multiplayer due to people using the modified controllers to enable rapid firing, though I remember seeing that "Rapid Fire" was being made as an Attachment for weapons, not something I'd imagine seeing in singleplayer [[Draco122|Draco122]]

:An added note about the "Museum" level is a button on the front desk. Press it and all the soldiers in the exhibits come alive and try to kill you! Good fun if you stock up from the weapons cases first. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== RIOT SHIELD ==

Just played the game and i have to admit the riot shield is the most fun weapon to use in multi-player. Bashing enemies to death is extremely gratifying. - JanG

i love when people use it, theyre easier to kill. Especially with the knife. If you are anywhere but directly in front of them they cant block it.

-k9870

That, sticky grenades, and powerful caliber fmj weapons are the only thing that can break through the shield - JanG

:A WELL AIMED grenade from an M203 would take a guy with a shield out[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

::Unless the guy has a Blast Shield (explosive resistant face mask) equipped, he won't die unless it's a direct impact from a 40mm. He'll even survive sticky grenades on his shield. I've survived plenty with a Blast Shield on when I've got a Riot Shield. Half the time though, after a hit with a 40mm I'm near death anyway even with a Blast Shield on and usually the guy still has a second shot [[Draco122|Draco122]] 17:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Hitting the shield with a 40mm won't kill the guy, the trick is to hit just behind or under him, launching his ass into the air. also FMJs work well, as do Semtex grenades. I myself use Marathon, Lightweight and Commando with my Riot Shield, as well as blast shield and an AA-12 for sticky situations. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Semi Auto only FAL==
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:39, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:The only Thing I could think to defend it is in The Falklands War both the UK and Argentina used the FAL. Which the UK used their L1A1 in single fire only, the Argentinian Army had theirs on Automatic, which Military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun. I've never fired one, but in the game I like the controlled fire of the FAL, of it would just fire like another AK.-Km314
:But it shoots way too slowly ingame to be of much use. They should have made it shoot in bursts of 2-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
::From what I experienced in Multiplayer, it's powerful, it would be way to powerful if it was full auto, I think Infinity ward was going for a thing like they did in CoD4 with the G3. 1:21, 13 November 2009

I think they purposely brought down single fire rate to keep people from using modded controllers too. The g3 would fire as fast as you pulled the trigger, and anyone with a modded controller had an unfair advantage. The FAL is a true single shot, mods or not. I like it.

To whoever said "military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun", I believe one person on the Military Channel does not count as "military expert'''S'''
Just look at this guy: he's not shooting down any planes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1q8GiSIdc

Are you a damned bloody fool??? Not every shooter out there is a cocked diesel motherfucker like him. Seriously, if you're that much of a damned idiot, DON'T POST.

If anything, the FAL with an ACOG makes a great DMR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

:I dunno whats with all the fuss, I love the FAL in MW2. Sure auto would have been fun, but it's hugely accurate and powerful, not to mention long ranged. A Holo sight makes it a perfect AR, and an ACOG pretty much makes it competition for the EBR. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

But I think I wish it's like in Rainbow Six where you can switch firing modes. The first 2 Call of Duty games did that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Yeah, and I sort of expected firing mode switches in MW2, but I guess not. But really, the FAL would be ridiculous on full-auto man. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Which is weird cause the SCAR-H fires the same round as the FAL and that is full auto [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

I believe that the americans found a simmilar problem with full auto 7.62 when they developed the M14 series. at a guess the SCAR-H and other similar weapons systems, such as the HK417, are more controlable due to modern knowledge about controling the recoil force, which was not available when the FAL was developed back in the 1950's. [[User:phaserrifle|phaserrifle]]

== Tacticool-ness ==
Well, this game is awesome and all, but i hate the fact that they made it to be a HALO knock-off. Dual wielding? Glock 18s? God, this there ever going to be a game that gets Special Ops right? -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:No, because the average person doesn't know dick about guns or the military-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 02:25, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
::I really thought that it would be a badass fucking game, which it is, but they made it just too fucking...tacticool. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

Its what happens when they cater to mall ninjas, dual g18s, dual deegs, dual sawn offs.... and the plot made no sense. Price launching a nuke, sheperd going bad, i love how the start of the game has sheperd just standing there without body armor in a war zone where the loliest terrorist could pick him off.... k9870[[User:K9870|K9870]]

: Wouldn't you find a guy who uses .44 magnum in a modern war to be very cocky and arrogant? -[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]]
::True, but some Generals do carry Colt 1911A1s and the such. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:No, anyone who can get a M1911 Authorized carries one-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:35, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

But most generals of today, especially a Lieutenant General would NOT be standing out on the front lines or strongly recommended not to. What is a Lt. General doing in Afghanistan anyway? The game also took out a lot of the old guns in the previous MW game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:38, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

:Not to mention they chose what's essentially a wallhanger sniper rifle (WA2000) over a number of battle-proven designs (M24, M110, even the L96A1 that Counter-Strike players seem to be so in love with). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:15, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:I would rather use my Winchester 88, shooting Hornady Custom .308's, over any of those rifles-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I agree that the WA2000 was a Stupid choice. That rifles has custom wood stocks and high quality handbuilt precision, and isn't meant for combat use. The only non magnum or anti-material sniper is the M21 EBR, which has a wrongly animated 20-round mag that only holds ten rounds. They dropped the M40, R700 and Dragunov, and gave beginners the Barrett .50 cal. I'm not the best sniper, but I wouldn't have minded a nice bolt action rifle thats not chambered in a massive round. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::No, Dragunov is still in the game. As far as dropping the M40, it would seem logical to do so considering there are no US Marines in MW2. And having the R700 as a separate weapon than the M40 was just pointless, IMO. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::::The Dragunov being in single player doesn't count. Why build it into the game and not add it to multiplayer? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::::Probably the same reason the M40A3 in CoD4 was restricted to MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:13, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

== Glock 18 with red dot ==
Hey if anybody plans to use a G18 with a red dot sight without a silencer I just wanted to tell you that using a G18 in this configuration is a bad idea, the muzzle flash of the gun on full-auto is so large that it actually blocks the view of the dot so much that you can barely see the dot
:Glock 18s were already a bad move. and put three ~ at the end of your text to show your name. like so: -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::I have to agree, without the silencer used the G18s muzzle flash ruins your sight picture, not to mention it has zero range and horrid accuracy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
Ok thanks for telling me how to put my name on a page, and the G18 is an ok gun, I mean the gun tisn't that accurate when you do a full clip 33 round burst, but it is a good close quarters gun because you can hose down an enemy in about two seconds, and I sometimes use it to pin down other players because they think that I am using an MG and when the gun runs out of ammo and they jump out of cover I spray them with a real MG. [[User:Korean war marine]]

I use it for close quarters only, with usually a UMP or Vector to back it up in case I need some accuracy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Glock 18s don't use clips, they use magazines. And I agree with Winchester and M14fanboy, Glock 18 (along with Desert Eagle and Magnum revolver) was a bad choice. Heck, I'd take a Mark 23 over any of them in a combat op any day. They should put in actual ''combat pistols'', not mall ninja favorites. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:They also removed the 1911 from multiplayer. That is just bull shit. I was hoping for a P226 or something from SIG since we got so many British characters or Browning Hi-powers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:30, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I had Hi-Power hopes as well, or possible the 226. But a Colt Anaconda and Desert Eagle, I thought this was military, not ghetto. The only good handguns really are the USP and the M93R, which is like a mini-M16. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::I've said this before and I'll say it again that this is a ''war'' game, so they should have dropped the Desert Eagle, Anaconda, and Glock 18 for actual ''combat pistols'' like the aforementioned Hi-Power, 226, and 1911. Heck, I even had hopes that that new Russian service pistol (MR-446 Grach, I think it's called) would make an appearance, but my hopes were all for naught. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::::I know man, it's dperessing to see a WAR game with nothing but stupid magnum handguns firing ridicilously large rounds. Theres a total of two legit combat pistols, the USP and M9, and while I haven't used the USP I can say the M9 is shite. DLC pistols pl0x! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Is it just me ==

or does infinity ward think all firearms in the near future will have a bunch of Picatinny rails on them?

:They just watch too many movies. But then again a lot of issued guns now do have rails. That's how the Marines Corp get their M4s and M16A4s now [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

::All firearms in the near future (aside from oddballs like the XM8) ''will'' have Picatinny rails. Modularity is the wave of the future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually if you look the extra rails are for the heartbeat sensor attatchment, which goes midway along the left side of all the guns its on. The UMP and P90 have them even though SMGs can't have that attachment, so obviously they were going to at some point in development.

== ACOG "off" after EMP among other things. ==

Ok, I get the fact that all electronics that were turned on would have been knocked out after the EMP struck, but...when I picked up a rifle with an ACOG, the lights were out, leaving only a black reticule, which is bullshit because ACOGs don't work like that. They are not battery powered and as such would not be affected by the EMP. I also find it hard to believe that none of the soldiers had flashlights that were most likely turned off during EMP. Another nit-pick is that your weapon after the EMP was an M4 with an EOtech mounted on it. Why couldn't the creators have your character just flip up the iron sights? You had to pick up an entirely different M4, also coincidentally like yours with an M203, with iron sights up for that kinda of thing.

This is one of the many minor lazy details they could have done. Like for the ACR. I know for a FACT that the ACR's bolt release switch is in front of the trigger. It was designed so when you insert a fresh mag, all you have to do is press forward on the release right in front of the trigger! But instead, if you are empty, you insert new mag and then with your FIRING HAND, take it off the pistol grip and pull the charging handle back! One, no soldier would is RIGHT handed would taken their trigger hand off the grip unless they need it to fix a malfunction. They would use their NON firing hand to pull the charging handle since the charging handle and in fact the entire RIFLE was built for both hands to operate. But no, IW wanted us to waste precious seconds to see the wrong hand pull the charging handle. I got shot so many times using the ACR when I am empty completely because I can't just press the bolt catch with my trigger finger as the gun was DESIGNED to! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

To add more fuel to the rant fire, the Glock 18 is an ok gun, I'll admit that in small bursts. But when you reload, you don't press the slide release, which would make getting back into action faster, but instead you're treated to your character pulling the slide back! This is only good for range shooting a Glock, since the slide release is pretty weak, factory wise, but in combat, pulling back the slide takes too much time, in fact, there's a couple seconds delay when reloading an empty Glock. That's why I try to not reload empty weapons. Always mid magazine change. It'll save fustraions for you watching your character take his damn time reloading and doing unneeded things like pulling the slide back or in the ACR's case, use right hand instead of left hand instead of pressing trigger finger forward. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

And even MORE nitpicking. Look at how they attached the M203 on a Tavor in the game! I've seen what an M203 with a Tavor looks like in real life and it works ergonomicially but the way IW did it in this game makes it look stupid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

its a game and just about every gamer you come across wont know about weapons like i have been telling people about the screw ups and they said if they did not give it a name they would have just called the m93r a machine pistol and most people i know call assault rifles machine guns. -scarecrow

yeah I too noticed on the ACR how they made the unnecessary action of charging it and all that when, like they did with the SCAR and M4, they could just push bolt release, which would probably decrease reload time in the game. but hey, maybe the did it cause it would "look cool" - Whatsagun

:Well at least for the M4 and SCAR, they are slapping the bolt release on the side of the gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

:Seriously, no one else noticed how the M4 was modeled on Semi?-protoAuthor 03:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

The M203 in this game is based on an RIS-mounted airsoft replica. [http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/wp-content/uploads/2007/NewshotsofCASCARM203fromVisele_1022A/DSC021252.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:31, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Back to the mocked up Glock 18, I think all videos on youtube never show full auto Glock's reloading. Just one magazine and "The End". But there was this one video on youtube called 298 rounds in full auto and it showed this guy with a mocked up Glock 18 not using the slide release lever, just pulling back the slide. With this video close to 5,000,000 views it's quite obvious IW got there ideas from that video.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI Glock 298 rounds in full auto]

:In response to that, I keep saying that most people target shooting with a lot of their guns would pull back the slide instead of pressing the slide release because every time they press down on it, it degrades it more and more. In a combat situation, you shouldn't be thinking about that if you are rushing to reload. If you are on the range, pissing bullets, then you do the pull slide back. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I wanna nitpick on the gun selection in this game. I'm sure they did this to expand the number of guns used, but some of their choices just kinda irk me. For instance, why does the Russian military use FAMAS, Tavor TAR-21, MG4, UMP, TDI Vectors, PP2000, AUG, AK's and RPD's? Seriously, TAR-21's? Israel doesn't even really like Russia right now, considering that they're selling weapons to people who want to destroy them.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:Well the AKs, RPD and PP2000 are obviously Russian weapons, but I hate that they didn't give them AK-74 type weapons, but all 47s instead. The Russian military doesn't use AK-47s anymore. They've switched to the smaller rounds. They also had the Russians during the Wolverine mission with FALs. IW obviously didn't know a thing about Russian military of today and didn't want to just give them all AKs, so they slapped them with a bunch of other guns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
::Wait a minute, aren't russians in the Wolverines mission ultranationalists? Because if they are the terrorist ones then they can have any gun they want.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
:No they're the russian army. I'm guessing that you haven't played the game (spoiler) as it is the russian army paratroopers invading the east coast of the U.S. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC))

I think the Ultra nationalist won the civil war in Russia. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that IW was not thinking in terms of reality but in terms of playablity. I mean, think about it, how boring would it be if the only weapon you could find was an AK-47?

Yes, I have to agree that it seems that IW knows jack-shit about firearms, just like most everyone else in the world, unfortunately. An FN rifle with a reciprocating charging handle? Come on. [[Special:Contributions/70.196.44.211|70.196.44.211]] 01:03, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

:At least they didn't make the single player M16A4 a full auto weapon and made it burst. That one's ok. And seriously, if they were modeling their guns off of airsofts, or even real ones, how can they fuck up with the SCAR's rear flip up sight? It's very hard to miss where it folds. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

I'll join the Nit picking, do correct me if I am wrong on this though. At least one of the Spec Ops missions has a suppressed M1014 and Striker. I haven't gone into multiplayer yet so I don't know if they pop up anywhere else, but I have never heard of a shotgun being suppressed. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

:There's also a silenced AA-12 in one, too. But like you, I'm not to sure about how feasible the silencing of a shotgun is. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

:They probably got the idea off the suppressed Remington 11-87 in No Country for Old Men. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:30, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

When EMPs emitted from nuclear explosions they effectively send a massive charge through any electrical cable. To be more specific, an EMP is composed of three things. The E1 components of EMPs have an intense electric field that induces very high voltages in electrical conductors. The E2 components act like the EMPs from lightning, but as a result are also easily protected against. An ACOG, however, is certainly not protected from this. The E3 component acts like a geomagnetic storm, which produces even more geomagnetically induced currents in electrical conductors, which damages electric components. While it is true that the ACOG uses tritium versus a battery, this does not change the fact that it uses electrical conductors (cables) to connect parts. The EMP would fry the ACOG, regardless of its power source. Besides, batteries use electrochemical energy, so there's nothing different in the battery from everything else in the ACOG except for some salt. The fact that the ACOG should not have been affected by the EMP should be removed. --[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 19:20, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

The ACOG doesn't have a power source... Tritium is slightly radioactive which is why it glows. Nothing electronic about it. If you were right night sights on a pistol or even the tritium notches on my watch would go out. This isn't true at all.

== TMP or MP9? ==

Hi. Just wondering about the labeling on the MW2 page. The game calls it a "TMP", but on the MW2 page it's labeled as an MP9. Since they look the same, why bother calling it the MP9 when it is in fact the TMP? -KLR

:Because the MP9 is the newer version of the TMP. I do believe Bruger and Thomet took over production from Steyr, who no longer makes it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::Isn't the side-folding stock unique to the MP9? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:32, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I think that was a part of the update too. Either way, unless those are old TMPs, the MP9 is the logical choice for the game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::::Update? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:::::The update Bruger and Thomet made when they took over building TMPs. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Walther WA 2000 screenshot==
Did someone have fun or is this an unedited screenshot from the game? If you look at the scope you can see an unhappy sick face painted on the scope cover. I have yet to use this gun, so I don't know. My money is on someone having fun. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

No, it's really like that in the game, the only people having fun there was Infinity Ward :D [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]]

:Thats the emblem used for a certain class of accolades, and a comedic effect as well. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

stop lieing to the guy. yes it does have a sick face painted on the cover its more noticeable on the WA2000 theres one on the barrett M102(idk the spelling or the number) aswell but its hard to see. theres none on the intervention or the M21 EBR. - Scarecrow

==L86A1 LSW drum magazine==

It is impossible in real life to fire and handle an L85A1 LSW with a 100 round drum magazine? --[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 15:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

:Impossible? No. Incredibly uncomfortable, awkward, and impractical? Yes.--[[Special:Contributions/141.165.142.102|141.165.142.102]] 16:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

::Unless you're left-handed or have ''really long arms''... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also the drum in the game model doesn't make sense. That's surely not big enough tohold 100 rounds, looks more like 50 to me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:If you shot it left handed, the charging handle would break your jaw-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
::I didn't know the L85/86 had a reciprocating charging handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
::: Either way you'd still get a face full of hot brass firing left handed. Which may probve to be a problem if I decide to enlist... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
:::: There's a theory of mine that in the very early parts of development, the L86 was going to be in the AUG's slot and the L86 now was going to be the Chinese Type 95 LMG. The AUG was apparently going as an Assault rifle as people initially thought. To me, the Drum magazine looks very similar to that of Type 95 LMG, maybe sometime mid-development they decided to change it to something else and merely slapped the Drum magazine on there? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]]
:::The Norinco QBB 95's drum magazine can hold 100 rounds. How is that impossible for a drum magazine to hold 100 rounds? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 14:33, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

A bit late to this, but I'll post it anyway. Yes, have experimented with a de-ac LSW and a beta-C, they can fit together. But - don't try lying prone with it, unless you wish to stretch your arms a good few feet. Or brake your wrists... The phrase "chicken-winging it" doesn't cover half of it... Training in the British Army will teach you to learn use it right eye/hand - the other reason for this is defence - a line can be disrupted if suddenly, in a line of all right-handed squaddies, a leftie turns up. Trust me, you will get used to it, although it feels slightly alien at first.
As for ingame - actually both the L85 and LSW were intended to go in. Both had ingame models, the same was with the AUG/HBAR. LSW had a 42 rnd mag, and little recoil - very accurate. I have no idea why the L85 was removed, but the L86 was kept, and the stupid 100rn drum added. The Type-95 is a possibility - but unlikely. It never appeared in the list of guns proposed (but then there are some spaces left in it)

== SCAR H is really a SCAR L ==

I think that the SCAR that is in the game is actually chambered in 5.56. I say this because it holds 30 rounds and after the helicopter is shot down in DC you are given a mag for an M4 from Sgt. Foley who has a SCAR. I think they had the SCAR replacing the M16 as the main battle rifle of the U.S. Military with the M16A4 being used for the reserve troops. They probably used the SCAR H model to make it look cooler. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
:The SCAR in the game isn't chambered in anything because it is a video game. Also if I am not mistaken IMFDB policy in regards to videogames is to identify guns purely by looks, not by any specifications. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
No its the Mk. 17 as evidenced by the larger flash suppressor. Infinity Ward probably created a 30 round mag to keep it more like an assault rifle than the battle rifle it is. Also the soldier who gives you the M4 dies and the clip could be from him.
Here's a picture of the flash suppressor to show it's an Mk.17--[[User:Km314|Km314]] 06:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
[[http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/c/c0/SCAR-H_Lv8_II.png]]
:''Magazine'', not clip. And I thought there had been a 30 round magazine introduced for use with the M14 rifle a few years ago? Last I heard, the Mark 17 still used M14 mags. And, while this may not be the best of arguments here, the Mark 17 in-game has heavier recoil than either the M16 or M4 and generally seems more effective at longer ranges than the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

It only has the 30 round magazine in single player, incorrectly, but in multiplayer, it has the 20 round. A lot of the weapons in multiplayer is correct but still, IW did miss a few things, like the rear iron sight for the SCAR is supposed to fold down towards the user, not away. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
:Regarding the rear sight... someone on IW's forum actually pointed that out to them sometime prior to the game's release, but they didn't do anything. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

== Is it an M9, 92FS or 92SB? ==

I'm confused. We have the title of the handgun called an SB, then a photo of a 92FS and then in the description, it's called an M9. Which one is it? Isn't the game trying to portray an M9 since it's military use? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

it should be cleened up. well im guessing that some one that only knows of the 92FS the civil version of the M9 (what its suposed to be) posted it
but its a 92SB because of the rounded trigger guard. -scarecrow

== Combat Knife ==

Can anyone identify the combat knife used in the final level? I know I've seen it before, I just don't know where. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:05, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

-If it's the same one that shows up in the sneak type missions I believe its a Blackhawk Tatang or SZABO FELONY STOP. --Pawnstar

:Looks like it's the Tatang. It is DEFINITELY NOT the Szabo Felony Stop. Thanks for the help, chief. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

just played that level again and i dont think its a tatang -scarecrow
: Well, they look exactly alike, from the design of the blade to the look of the grip. The dimensions may be a tiny bit off, but that's not all that surprising.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 21:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Is that the same blade that appears when you melee? Gunner313
:Not sure. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 21:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
::The melee knife, throwing knife and tactical knife are all different, IIRC. Easiest way to see the knife is to throw one and look at it. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:34, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

i sware someone edited my post? i originally said that the one in SP is not a tatang the blade and grip a different shaped from what i remember. the one online is a tatang and the melee knife is a tatang im not sure about the tac knife the next time im on il check. il post a pic of the final one soon -scarecrow

There are actually only two knifes, Soap's at the end (not sure what it is), and the Tatang, which is the melee/throwing/tac knife/the one Soap and Price stab the guards with when they rappel down and when Price stabs the guy at the top of the stairs in Just Like Old Times

--[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:44, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

allright to end this once and for all the melee/tac/throwing knife is the tatang but the endgame throwing knife is differant

The article also incorrectly states that the Tatang is not available with a serrated blade, when in fact it is.

I edited that part after it was added, it was pretty badly done so I just tidyied it up, but I'm not too much of a knife guy, not that they're not cool, I just don't have a lot of knowledge there, so I didn't change the basic info, feel free to change it though :) EDIT: Oookaaay, someone removed it completely... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:05, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

== Vector things ==

Just wondering,isnt the ingame name of the Kriss SUper V "Vector" wrong,because the gun has the TDI CRB/SO magazine and stock.

:Copyright stuff.

I thought the Vector is the most modern variant from TDI. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

wait what? i thought the CRB/SO is the semi auto civil version[[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:51, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== AUG ==

Is the AUG supposed to be the equivalent of the FG42 from WAW? --[[User:Phil|Phil]] 22:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:What do you mean "equivalent"? I know what the word means, I just don't know how it applies here. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:45, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

:Why would you compare a WWII weapon to a modern rifle? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::Maybe he's asking if they fill the same role? I know the AUG Hbar classifies more or less as an infantry automatic rifle, intended to function as a magazine-fed light support weapon. Was this the FG42's role? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:05, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

From what I understand the FG42 was designed to give paratroopers a rifle that would replace the Kar 98, MP-40, MG-42, and their pistols in airbourne jumps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FG42 gives you a good idea. Grizzlybar

I think he means the M82 (Barrett .50 Cal) is to the PTRS-41 as the AUG Hbar is to the FG42. Understand now? And to answer your question, Phil, no I don't think so for two reasons. They both perform differently, especially in terms or recoil and magazine capacity. Second, Treyarch likes to copy Infinty Ward, not the other way around. It's not like IW to take an idea from Treyarch.[[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:45, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

:I wouldn't say that at all. The HBAR has a 42 round magazine, the FG42 a mere 20. Also, in WaW the FG42 has a stupidly high ROF which burns the mag if you cough on your controller. The AUG is more accurate and has a better ROF, not to mention it looks better IMO. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== GP-30 reload ==

As you know, russian under-barrel grenade lauchers (GP series) shoots caseless rounds. But why the f character in MW games feels the need to shake something (shellcase?) out of the bore after each shot? How could IW let such harsh technical inaccuracy in both modern warfare games? I could assume that this was done for balance sake, but why not just make longer but proper looking animation.

:Like you said, it was done for balance. IW was more concerned with "fair play" unfortunately. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:18, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

::I just thought that it would be better if they left the ejection animation out and extended the time duration of the animation of putting the new round in. That way, it makes the game more realistic ''and'' balanced. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:30, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
:::True. I mentioned the same above. But the thing is that this game was aimed at mass gamer audience most of which know donkey dick about weaponry and, in particularly, some Russian muzzle-loaded under-barrel gls. Neither they know that 1 cartrige stays up the pipe when you reload mid-mag. IW is a money shovelers now. Too much disappointments for me. I don't buy their games anymore.

:::Very true. Even ''I'' didn't know how the GP launchers functioned up until a few years ago. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:36, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

== art book scans? ==
hey i was just wondering does any one know where i could find some scans of the art book from the prestige ed if someone could upload then a post a link or find a link to a nother site thats would be great thanks [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Enjoy [http://img253.imageshack.us/g/mw21.jpg/ link]

thanks mystery person [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 08:06, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
:Funny, my artbook doesn't have pics of SCARs or MG4s in it... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:36, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

== Removing Sights ==

I was wondering how hard it would be to remove mounted sights (like the acog, HALO sight, red dot sights, etc) from the top of the rails on a battlefield. I'm sure it would require tools, but would soldiers be required to carry these tools? I was just wondering because with the EMP blast, when the battery powered optics become useless, how hard would it be to remove those sights and use the backup sights? Aren't the backup sights there in case something does happen to the attached sights?--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

::No way! If you could adjust your weapon on the go (like in Crysis, Stalker), it would be just too complex for a game like CoD.

:No. The point of mounting an optic onto a system is to not require tools (although I'm not too sure about the HALO sight). Many of the mounts use thumb-screws that you tighten by using your hands. It's not as tight as using a wrench, but in in emergencies, this makes them easier to remove. As of the back-up sights, I'm afraid IW uses them only for aesthetic purposes, and prove no purpose. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:27, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

:No, no special tools are needed to remove any of those optics. Just twist a thumbscrew or flip a throw lever (depending on type of mount), pull it off, and you're good to go. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Just been wondering. I don't expect games like COD to be all that realistic (given the plot and the characters ability to regenerate health from near death). Was just wondering how difficult it was in reality.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 16:43, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

:The stupid part of the EMP was that the ACOG scopes were not on. ACOGs don't use batteries to light up their sights. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:::Yeah, that's an embarrassing error. They could do a spectacular animation showing player (and some of his squad-mates) dismount their sights, throw it away, flip up buis' and remark how it fucking sucks. Those in team with ACOGs on their pieces would leave them and have greater accuracy. Also they could insert some comic conversation between rangers, like: "Dud, I told you ACOG rules, brah". And of course player could find rifle equipped with it.

its surprising how many ignorant people there are i nearly got in a full argument with someone a few days back over the fact he claimed (and still believes) ALL ACOG sights sorry he thinks ALL sights apart from iron sights are powered by battery i guess thats why he looked puzzled when i started laughing at him i guess IW is just a group of ignorant people that should do more research [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 10:04, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
::And their military advisers are as ignorant.
:::I doubt they even have a military adviser. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:04, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

:a lot of sights can be co witnessed, where you can still use your irons looking through the sight when off // disabled. Hell often times the dot in the sight lines up with your front sight post. -stu

So out of all the ways Infinity Ward took a crap on realism with MW2 we're complaining about the ACOG turning off...? [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 12:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::I would close eyes on bullshit perks and story, if they made everything from the technical side at least look properly.
::::I'm not just talking about perks and storyline or even technical stuff. How about the ability to single-handedly breach into a room with a 37-pound .50 caliber rifle and kill 4 armed men in 2.5 seconds using 4 rounds. Or maybe the fact that every freaking weapon has a full rail system on it, even in the hands of ragtag militia in Brazil and Afghanistan. Or maybe how I can squeeze 30 rounds out of a 20 round SCAR-H mag. Maybe it's the fact I can run around with 2 UMP-45's and reload them by putting them at my side for a second or two. It's probably really the fact that the M240B has very similar, if not the same attributes of the M249 SAW from COD 4 despite the fact it uses a drastically more powerful round, weighs more, and has a slower fire rate in reality. It could just be how you can take out everyone while firing a fully automatic Glock pistol (mislabeled as a G18) with one hand while driving a snowmobile over a giant cliff with the other. Rant finished. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:31, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
from what I understand the SCAR-H uses M14 mags and to my knowledge there are 30 round mags for the M14. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:49, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not sure on that, but even if that is true the in-game model is unquestionably a 20-round mag. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 20:01, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
that being said you should notice that the FAL has 30 round mags yet only 20 rounds in them.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:02, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's weird, in the Singpleplayer, the FAL has 30 rounds, which is correct, but for some reason in Multiplayer, they gave it 20 for no good reason. The SCAR-H is correct in multi with 20 rounds, but not in single [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:::::It would be overpowered and evil if it had 10 more bullets in it!
::::::Yeah, and all the kids would be screaming and crying at "FAL noobs". XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:13, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm more annoyed about the tubers because the game promotes the use of grenade launchers to unlock the shotgun attachment a 203 kill counts as a kill to the rifle it is attached to [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

==Screenshot location==
Does anyone know where in the game was this screenshot taken?

[[Image:Mw2_1911_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M1911 in ego-view.]]
It seems to defeat the "it's only usable in bonus mission" bit. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:16, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:I think it's the museum level. There's a diorama of the prison mission, complete with helicopters. The picture if just confusing because you can't see that it's just a diorama. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 17:38, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== Desert Eagle Picattiny Rail ==

I FOUND IT! Magnum Research offers a barrel with Picattiny rails: http://magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=BAR506 [[User:Yocapo32]]

== The Next Call of Duty games ==

Do you think they should do a Korean war and Vietnam War Call of Duty?

It's confirmed by Activision that Treyarch will be making the next COD and it will be Vietnam [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Gold Desert Eagle ==

I don't have the game but I saw some videos of the new maps and the player had a Gold Desert Eagle. Can someone tell me about it?
:It's just like any other Desert Eagle aside from having a gold finish. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:39, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Well how do you get it on this one?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

It can be accessed trought hacks. But moderators are gonna kick you in the ass, throw your Xbox Live (Or whatever) account to a hole, dump gasoline on it, then throw a cigar in the hole --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.201.179|190.176.201.179]] 01:57, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Probably saving it for a $10 DLC.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

==F2000 Patch==
So Recently I tried to get back into using the F2000, and oddly it felt like it handled better now. Well I talked to a friend of mine who did MW2 Beta testing and is friends with Robert Bowling, and no word to lie, I actually caused this fix. About a month ago I sent Bowling an email outlining how and why he should fix the F2000 and me it worthy of being a level 60 rifle. Well my friend said that Bowling actually listened, and so in the patch that came with the Resurgence Map Pack, the F2000 had a recoil reduction and damage boost built into it. And now this weekend I've been using the F2000 more, and while the recoil still isn't ACR like, it's a lot easier to use, and now worthy of being a high level unlock. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Have they fixed the broken silencers? Or does the M9 and M240 still show up on radar?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:50, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Hard to say, I didn't even know they were broken like that, so maybe. Lately I've been using the LMGs more, and I still wish the SAW from CoD 4 would return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I rarely use suppressors on anything. Sometimes, on the Glocks I carry and sometimes on the sniper rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:38, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:I rarely use a suppressor on my SCAR if I'm doing a cold blooded class, as it can do well without stopping power. But usually it's my trusty SCAR-H with Holographic and Blue Tiger with a Gripped SPAS-12 secondary. Also, I have a silencer on my UMP in my cold blooded anti-air class. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Broken Silencers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkbs4zktJtQ&annotation_id=annotation_775038&feature=iv --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:More broken shit in MW2 for the win! Great job Infinity Ward, is this patch 1.11 now? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

glad i sold this for the 40 dollar trade in, IW is useless, the first patch was to neuter the truly awesome 1887s. the only patch i wanted wa sone that would end matchmaking and let me play the friggin game instead of searching lobbies for 10 minutes.

-k9870

:I played World at War all day today, owning with my M1919 and M1A1, then I hop on MW2 for a bit and just hate it up. Damn it, I'm at the edge of selling MW2. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

If your refering to the carbine its just a M1 Carbine. The M1A1 is the folding stock paratrooper variant. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:39, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Trust me, it's worth selling. I used the money from selling MW2 and other cash to buy Bad Co. 2

Bad Company is good, but the story is not as funny as the first game. They are trying to match MW2 in how gritty it is. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:49, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

==Red Dot Sight==
I was playing online, and was using the red dot sight , and was wondering what model red dot it is. PunisherDave

I think its a C-more -Double Agent M

I'm pretty sure they aren't C-more's, C-mores more longer in the shape. This is what a C-more looks like http://www.americanshootersedge.com/sti/SteelMaster/images/SteelMaster08_Main.jpg.
It's most likely some kind of common mini reflex sight (Yea C-more's are mini reflex sights but long) But then again im no sight guy. Over and out - Noe
::They appear to be Doctor red dot sights, I believe. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 13:34, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Sounds 'bout right. - [[User:Noe|Noe]]

Looks like a cross between a C-More style sight and a Docter-style sight. It's a fair bit bigger than a regular Docter sight, which is usually mounted onto an ACOG. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:47, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
:I don't think so. They probably got the size wrong or it's just the view from first-person. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:19, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

==Cpl Dunn's SCAR charging animation wrong ==

During the mission "Of their own Accord", you wake up underground and explore the place, and right before you get out, you see Dunn being tossed his SCAR by someone. The NPC then pulls the charging handle, but instead of reaching for the left side, which is where the charging handle is on a SCAR, he pulls the rear back, which is nothing but air. Apparently the animators screwed up and mixed the M4's charging handle animation with the SCAR's. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Its because people normally don't notice that kind of thing. In Call of Duty 2: Big Red One all the NPCs reload their gun like a M1 Garand.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:36, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

==Something I noticed in both this game and COD4==

I don't know why, but this always seemed to bug me: When you reload a assualt rifle in-game (for example the M4A1), how are the dropping the clip out of the gun without, you know, physically removing it? That always confused me on how they did it (and YES i know its a game, but i seen a few people in real life do the same thing) -[[SeanWolf]]

:The M4 and M16 series of weapons have a mag release button, much like on a handgun. Push the button, the mag falls out. What I had a question on was how they reloaded the G36 without using the left hand for the paddle release. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:54, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I think for the G36, you COULD just press the mag release down and kinda shake the mag out. But for rifles like the M16/M4, the magazine goes straight up into the gun and if it is a smooth and clear mag, it should drop right out if you press it, letting gravity do the work. Sometimes it might get a little stuck and sometimes it drops too slowly and you'll have to actually rip it out of the gun or fling it out. AK, M-14s, G3s are some of the kinds of rifles that have a kind of HOOK on the mags and when you change mags, you have to unhook the mag from the gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:48, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

The G3 is really a HK91 which has a push button on the right side of the gun.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:What G3? There isn't a G3 in this game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:33, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::I was refering to how the G3 reloaded in CoD4
i guess they do that to the M4A1 for the animation you cant see the right side of the gun so the persons trigger finger could hit the mag release after firing the last round [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 22:03, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

==Winchester 1887's akimbo==
Is there any point in single player that the Winchester 1887s can be wielded akimbo or is this limited to only multiplayer? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:It's limited to only multiplayer for balancing reasons. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:36, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

The level where you're escaping from Rio you can get dual winchesters. You can also get dual Rangers and dual G18s. Its something of a random event as it depends on the equipment of the AI and where their weapon's drop when you kill them. I dont recomend TRYING to set up two guys and they dropping them because that tends to equal death and frustration.
-Double Agent M

== M79 ==

The M79/Thumper in the game has a wooden stock, not a black stock, That needs to be changed please.

== TMP ==

the makers of call of duty stated that the apparant B&T MP9 is a Steyr TMP not a MP9. but the TMP is out of service therefore replaced by the MP9, so why have they called it TMP?--[[User:Gunfeldbach|Gunfeldbach]] 01:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:Well technically, the TMP is no longer made, but it may still be in use, a lot of weapons have remained in service for some time after manufacture of the weapon was ceased. Although being "modern" warfare, you would indeed think they would have used the newer MP9 in the game instead. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 08:57, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

its a Steyr TMP not a MP9 so it needs to be changed--[[User:Gunfeldbach|Gunfeldbach]] 18:05, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:I don't think it should be changed, as the actual gun is an MP9. The fact that they call it a TMP and have stated that it is a TMP does not matter, as the gun that they have actually modelled it on is an MP9, as noted by the top rail, rear sight design and the extended lower reciever with folding stock. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 00:42, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

We ID guns based on what the model IS, rather than what the creators SAY it's supposed to be. You can't find those rails and that folding stock on a regular TMP. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 01:45, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Burn Notice

2010-12-03T02:20:46Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Fiona's assault rifle */

==Lol Wut?==
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: "I know that in the new Burn Notice episode "Question & Answer," a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is "Double Down" look it up." Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.

Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)

:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the "Edit" button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).

::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester

::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW

:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor

:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:

:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on "The Unit"). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.

:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like "not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle" instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked. That's definetly not a Jericho. I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model. Here's the image I got

[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

It is either a S&W 4006 or S&W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

== Fiona's assault rifle ==

I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).

It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?

they assault rifle Fiona got from Seymour (arms dealer) was an M4A1 carbine with what appeared to be an Ampoint (possibly ACOG) anpeq-2 and some type of verticle grip. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:20, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sam's Rifle ==
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona. Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing. It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR. I don't think it's an SR-25. They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

==Mark 23==
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!

==sig 226==

i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,

==Errors==
2 Errors of note: The Steyr is a Remington 700. The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present. It's not a ProHunter either.

The Winchester 1300's aren't either. Note the lack of v-shaped reciever. They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.

I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]

==Accuracy International==

During the episode "Double Booked" Michael apparently assembles an "AI AWC" but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.

== Desert Eagle ==

Added Desert Eagle to handgun list. Season 3 Episode 4 "Fearless Leader". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010
(UTC)

== Beretta Tomcat==

In Season 3 Episode 8 "Friends Like These". Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.
==SIG not Glock==
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered SIG.]]
This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?
This gun is a SIG non-gun. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:04, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a P226

==HK USP compact 45==
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.

on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45

==Fiona's M1==
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''
 

:''The "Family Business" M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in "Turn and Burn."

==Fiona's rifle==
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?

I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle

I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&catalog_=B

::You are right. Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==S3Ep13==
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==

Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

== Great show ==
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, right on. "Honey! I got you a S&W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!" --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

ha ha that funny . but id rather hang with michael . i like him . maybe pick up a few things . fight moves , learn to speak russian , and some super cool
spy stuff. im happy its on to night. simmons 8492

== CZ 75BD ==

In season 3 episode 6 "the hunter" Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

==BNS4==
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

damn right brother , i love this show so much . simmons 8492

==Khan's Gun==

what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp

[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px ]]

That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&W. [[Spades of Columbia]]

: Nope. [[Smith & Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]

==What are these==

these guns look really dressed up

[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors

-Double Agent M

Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes

- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.

[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode? It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]

Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]

[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?

looks like a non gun

Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.

Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.

It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911). And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now. Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Original CZ 75... ==

In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]

I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.

[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==S04E06==

Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :<.

==S04E09==
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&K P30 on Michael

== Breaking Up By Season? ==

The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season. The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season. Thoughts? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe

== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the "laser targeting assist" she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==Remington 870==

wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the "water shell" is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the "water round." No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
::They look like nickel plated Winchester 1300 defenders with pistol grips and standard mag tubes. And I don't think they're airsoft, if you look down the barrel of one of them in the case, you see residue from firing blanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:: Winchester 1300 Defs? Bah, why didn't I think of that? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::- Not a 1300 either. 1300s have a single pin, and the safety button would be visible as would the slide release. And the "residue" could be just about anything, and I think its more likely to be from lighting. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 21:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

==Robert Patrick==

Robert Patrick uses the USP with the silver slide in the most recent episode. -- [[User:K|K]] 12:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==Jessie's Rifle==

Anyone know what Jessie was using when he "shot" Micheal in the finale? --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

== Not a Remington 700? ==

Is this not a Remington 700? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:BNassassinRifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Evelyn the assassin ([[Lucy Lawless]]) adjusts the scope on her Remington.]]
[[Image:BNassassinRifle2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A view of the other end of the Remington: the end you would rather be behind.]]
I don't think this is correct, at least based on the picture of the 700PSS provided. Look at the bolt handle, not what on a factory Remington 700. And the stock is too glossy and smooth looking to be a tactical rifle

== H&K P30 or HK45? I think this gun is misidentified. ==

This looks more like a Heckler and Koch P30 than an HK45. They are very similar looking except the external safety on the HK45, the bottom of the magazine is different, and the HK45 is larger.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/4/41/BurnS4_309.jpg/500px-BurnS4_309.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/c/c8/HH45.jpg/400px-HH45.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/12/HK-P30.jpg/350px-HK-P30.jpg

(I tried to post the pictures but couldn't get it to work). Notice the difference in the bottom of the magazine. The HK45 is also a full-size, the P30 is a compact. Notice the slight difference in the length of the slide. The gun in his hand looks more like a compact, and the slide looks shorter than the HK45. I'm new, so I'm not going to change anything myself. Just a suggestion.

SnakeDoc

Its definately A P30.. you can tell by the trigger guard

== New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? ==

The attached picture from Burn Notice may show Weston carrying an HK P30 9mm. (Again, I can't figure how to embed the picture).

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/113/1135169/burn-notice-20101117073255292_640w.jpg

It is a publicity still from the latest episode (aired in late November). If I recall the episode correctly, he drew the gun on his own (didn't recover it from someone else) and used it to shoot a fake chemical weapon cannister filled with tear gas and pesticide.
It looks like an H&K to me ... too small to be an HK45, not square enough to be a USP Compact. I'm pretty sure it isn't Weston's usual Sig, though I am unsure if it represents a permanent change in sidearm of choice.

Hope not, SIG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HK, like is way better.

Its definatetly a P30. Personally i think a new gun would be good the P228 is outdated and is used by everybody in most T.V shows so a new gun like the P30 would be good.. OR stay with Sig and get the P229 E2

honestiy , i like the P228 with him . its been with him since the pilot so i say , if it aint broke dont fix it simmons 8492

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-05T19:16:09Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Five Brothers */ new section

This is one of those hard series since pictures are hard to find and I'm not a master of screenshots.

I like to keep the format I've set for the photos of M4s and MP5Ks the way it is because there were a lot of photos and I think the current format for those are appealing.

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/4/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

==Probably Hard Shots to find==
I only saw the first episode of this show and if memory serves me right, one guy went quail hunting with a pump shotgun (870 I believe) and then was held up by a man with a Mini-14 which I think had a 30 or 40 round magazine. Since the first episode isn't easy to find on the computer, I'm assuming this shot would be difficult to come by unless someone owns the first season on DVD. -GM

::That wasn't the first episode. It was another episode of the first season. I do remember that scene and will find shots of that eventually.

:Saw another episode one day were everyone was holed up in this house and one guy outside was shooting at BGs with a Browning M2 mocked up as a DShK. Sorry I can't help further but I don't watch it enough to describe further. Lot of good shots of M4A1s too. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

On the page, it said that Mack had a Kimber Warrior, can someone upload some pictures of that? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The Televised pictures of the Kimber Warrior doesnt look like a real Warrior. First, there is no laynard loop on the bottom of the grip. Second, the finish on the nose is showing some silver, and the KimPro finish doesnt wear like that. Could the show actually use a TLE/RL or maybe a SWAT edition. [[Spades of Columbia]]

TLE was used for a few seasons, then switched to the Warrior. Mack uses a normal 1911 most of the time in the newer seasons.
i do remember one episode. i dont recall the name, but i believe it was called "Stress". the one were their in africa and find a terrorist. i think Hector had one. and so did Jonas. if at all possible, can someone please add a couple of them that Mack uses them? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The SWAT custom one doesn't have the rail for optics [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Size of pics ==

I am not sure of the so called "format" of this site but I like the format of the M4 and MP5K section and how it's arranged and want to keep it that way. Also some pics are larger than others. The reason is that if they are smaller than 600 then they would look distorted. This didn't really happen in the old server. but for here I had to make them larger to they won't look so you can't seen any pixal on them. The larger size gives the photos smoother looks.

== Not a mk 12 ==

If someone has a better name to call it, then correct it. Saying it isn't something else isn't helping in identifying what the sniper rifle is.

== Eat your Hard Boiled out ==

The Unit section now beats even Hard Boiled with over 60+ guns counted

:Nice work, now I can only say that Hard Boiled is the largest movie page. To be fair though, a T.V. show can grow, a movie stays still but anyway, great work.

::Yeah, nice job. I honestly have to admit that I don't have the patience to do TV show pages just cause they tend to feature lots of guns over the course of several seasons (especially a weapons-heavy military show like ''[[The Unit]]''). Plus, I rarely buy entire seasons of TV shows.

:::Well It was hard to track down the previous season since links to them have poor connection. I had considered renting the DVDs. Either way, this show has an impressive array of firearms and it isn't stopping in what the Unit shoots next.

== Rearrange of Garand, Winchester, and SKS ==

Recently the SKS, M1 Garand and the Winchester 1886 was moved to "other weapons" because they don't fit either section of Assault rifle nor sniper rifle. Hence they would be placed in the same section as the musket rifle would be since they are dated weapons.

== That´s a L1A1 SLR ==

[[Image:UnitFAL5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
judging by the handguards and the front sight,that´s a L1A1.

:It's still a FAL

== Two nit picks... ==

The derringer that Jonas carries in while wearing the tux looks like a High Standard Derringer. These were double action, tip down, .22 magnum as opposed to the single action, tip up, .41 rimfire of the original Remington design.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SN4dXMHNTUI/AAAAAAAAAj4/z2jZ_wOCmls/s1600/High%2BStandard%2B-%2BDerringer%2BMod.%2BDM%2B101%2B-%2Bpistol%2B-%2B.22%2BMagnum.jpg

Also, the lever action noted as a Winchester 1886 looks more like a Marlin 336. The 1886's bolt occupied most of the center of the upper reciever, while the Marlin has a round bolt with the ejection port on the right side of the reciever. In the pic, you can see the silver, circular section right in front of the hammer, which is the bolt.

http://www.outdoorsurvivalinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/start1_med1.jpg

Great site, thanks for all the trouble!
Doug K

==SU-16==

The keltec su-16 page says one was used in the show and i dont see it here. Anyone know where it was used? -K9870

:I don't see an SU-16. Anyone know which episode this supposively have appeared in? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==R.I.P.==

Just read over on Imdb that [[The Unit]] has been canceled by CBS. Bummer. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:From what I can see, the cancellation hasn't been decided on yet. But piss on CBS if they do. The Unit is the only show I look forward to every week. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:CBS canceled Jericho and then they canceled The Unit. That network just sucks. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::Tell me about it. Two of the best shows in CBS history right there and they're more concerned with "reality" shows like Survivor (which, BTW, are actually filmed on sound stages and not in tropical jungles and whatnot). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== Need help ID'ing AR-15 Variant. ==

As seen here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/The_Unit#Unknown_AR-15.2FM4_Variant]]. I'm pretty sure it's not a HK416, M4, or CQBR. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Model 933, but I'm no expert on AR-15s. Any help would be much appreciated.

[[Image:UnitAR4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Looks like a 933 or equivalent to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

I guess it is. Time for another update. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

==Optics w/ BUIS an anachronism?==
How is having BUISs on an optic-equipped weapon an anachronism when military and police commonly use said combo? Hell, even the Barrett 82 has BUISs. No offense to whoever made that statement, but it's gotta be one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever read. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Wait, where is this said on the page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Originally at the top of the Colt 933 section, but it's not there anymore. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

==Breaking up pages==
This page is getting too big to add any more items. I would like to break it up into different pages, creating new pages by weapons like the page is now and linking them to the original page. Has anyone else already started this? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]

:No offense, but screw that. Why break up a page just because it has too many guns? I mean have you seen Miami Vice? Mail Call? Hard boil? Those are pretty big pages too. I don't need to break up my page so that it is easier on your eyes. It's a waste of space and all it that pistol page has done was just waste space on the server. And what do you mean "too big to add anymore items?" There's no limit on how many guns you can put on a page as long as it has been shown on the show. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::However, Miami Vice was broken up into seasons because it took too long for the page to load or it crashed completely. The Unit doesn't have that problem, so I don't see a need to break it up. I do disagree about "there being no limit to adding to a page". the Miami Vice tv show is a prime example of a page getting so big it becomes unviewable to 99% of the potential users (unless someone has lightning fast internet connection and large RAM, which most people don't have. But I have no problems loading the Unit page, so I was mystified by the breakup. MPM2008

:If the Unit gets more seasons down the road with 10 times more guns, then I'll happily break it up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

::Here's hoping someone wises up and gives us a couple more seasons. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Small size caps? ==

Who turned all my caps from my standard 500x to this small size? It's ungodly small for a page like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::I think the user thought that shrinking the thumbnails would speed up the loading time. It doesn't. The page still has to re-size whatever the size of the original image is. Also IMFDB's standard is 500px or 600px (for ultra widescreen or high resolution shots). Again we still need a rules page, to tell the new users what the page standards are. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==Breaking up pages (cont.)==
If you go into the edit page, it gives a warning that the page is over 32kb and recommends that it should be broken up into different pages, but it looks like you want to keep it the way it is. So go ahead and delete the page with just the pistols on it. [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]
:It's at 42kb. Not much larger than recommended. Miami Vice was at 93kb, before it was broken up. Season 1 and 2 are at 40kb apiece. Load time is not bad on The Unit. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Then I'll get rid of unnecessary gun caps. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

:Is the Season 4 DVD box art really necessary? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, because I put it up as a featured article. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

==CM203 entry added==
I just got Season 4 on DVD, so I figured I'd jump at the chance and get caps of those Cobrays used in S4E7/8. I only took caps of them in episode 7, though, as I figured that was sufficient enough documentation for the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Like all armories for film and TV series, these would most likely be Cobray 37mm flare launchers that were designed to look like M203s. This is a common practice to have the appearance of 203s. It is unlikely any of the M203s seen in the series are real M203s.

:While that could be the case, the second picture of Blane show that it is an M203, the the C37. But, with the advancement of m203s and RIS systems, a soldier could simply slide on an m203. So, it could also be an airsoft replica if its never fired. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:The only episodes I recall seeing Cobrays in are S4E7/8. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

== Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol ==

In the story. Jonas took 2 of these out as a hidden weapon that he kept within a rat trap. He handed on to is wife before he made a disappearing act. I guess in story it's supposed to resemble a Walther TP or TPH.

''I don't know dude...these look a lot like the Walther PP or PPK to me. If these images are from the episode I am thinking of (the finale of Season 1) my reaction, at the time, was "why is Joans carrying such a weak ass pistol as his sidearm???".''

''Nah, the Walthers don't have that little extra piece of metal extending from the trigger guard to the barrel. But, then again...''
:It looks like a Walther PSM. It's like a PPK but with an extended trigger guard. Hammer looks like it too. -GM
::''What is a Walther PSM? Did you mean Walther TP or TPH? PSM is a Russian pistol made by Izhevsk.

::That is a '''Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol'''. I just checked the lower image against the one I have. Brixia Arms used to make this type of blank gun about 10 years ago, but their quality was pretty bad. There 'might' be some available, but the majority of the 8mm theatrical blank firing PPKs on the market now are made by '''Kimar''' or '''Voltran'''. What tips it off, is the writing on the slide (it is identical to the markings on my Brixia Nickel plated Walther PPK theatrical blank gun) and the '''hole''' drilled in the top of the barrel (where the ejection port is). This hole allows the flash from the blank round to fire '''upwards''' since the barrel is blocked. Also the magazine is a thin single stack type that only holds those skinny 8mm blank rounds. ____[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

==M60E4==
I put this pic here because I think it's copyrighted.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Unit-MG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

== number 3 biggest? ==
ok both this and stargate SG-1 page both say that they are the 3rd biggest --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 02:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The Unit is number 3, by my count there are about 40 more weapons. It's also about twice the physical size (KB) if that matters at all. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== 933 RIS? ==
What is this RIS?
[[Image:UnitAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit4164.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Looks like DD Mk.18 RIS II but I'm not sure.

Looks more like a Yankee Hill rail. [http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-Lightweight-Tactical-Free-Float-Mid-Length-p/yhm-9634%20ff%20mid.htm]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown M16 ==
I've uploaded another screencap of the M16 Bob carries in "Natural Selection."
[[Image:UnitM161.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
It's hard to tell since Scott Foley's thumb is in the way, but it appears that this rifle does not have a brass deflector, which would mean that it is not a Model 715 as has been suggested. Is there any official designation for this weapon (A1 sights, no brass deflector, A2 handguards and heavy barrel profile) or is simply a frankengun?
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:None that I know of. I've never seen or heard of that configuration before. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

== Five Brothers ==

Why would the team have LAMs on their weapons in a 100% CQB op? when it would make more sense to have a tac-light?

Talk:M16 rifle series

2010-08-04T01:52:47Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 */

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in [[Uncommon Valor]] - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film [[Scarface]]. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm.]]
[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
this is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Caddilac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

So why not update this page to include current issue M16A4 rifles?
(unless you don't know what they are....)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- No prob, dude - I'm just glad you got what I was gettin' at. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

i would be shocked if they couldnt pick their weapons. their the best soldiers on the planet. it just doesnt make sense not to be able to. it would be like giving a star baseball player a 10 dollar glove. itll do but why wouldnt they get the best thats out there. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2010-08-03T20:07:05Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 */

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in [[Uncommon Valor]] - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film [[Scarface]]. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm.]]
[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
this is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Caddilac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2010-08-03T20:05:52Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 */

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in [[Uncommon Valor]] - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film [[Scarface]]. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm.]]
[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
this is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Caddilac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:05, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2010-08-02T17:13:59Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Adding images */

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in [[Uncommon Valor]] - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film [[Scarface]]. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm.]]
[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
this is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Caddilac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2010-08-02T17:11:35Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 */

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in [[Uncommon Valor]] - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film [[Scarface]]. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm.]]
[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
this is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Caddilac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Medal of Honor (2010)

2010-08-02T17:04:01Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Animations */

==Knife?==

I watched the "Leave a Message" trailer recently. I think one of the Rangers had a Gerber LMF II knife attached to his MOLLE vest. I own this same knife which is why it caught my eye.

==beta release date?==

When will 360 beta be out? I keep hearing within a week but have seen no announcements by the company.
:http://twitter.com/medalofhonor
:http://twitter.com/pottan

Both links failed, and im getting pissed waiting, gives you high hopes for the games multiplayer when a short beta is this delayed......

I heard somewhere they're going to run it after they fix the bugs from the PS3/PC Betas, after they're done, because it will allow them to find new problems and because it saves money. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:38, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

==weapon balance==

i just saw the 12 round beretta mentioned i think they did that for balance reasons. Another game too focused on fairness. God forbid you unlock a gun later on that just owns.

-k9870

Yeah its kind of annoying when its that balanced, at least you could pretend its the .40, but I wouldn't even know what to do with the Grach, its named the Tariq (which is something else) and has 12 rounds too, when its supposed to have 17. Wait, couldn't they both just have been 16 to be in between? If I WAS going to make an overly balanced system like this, I'd try to make it close, why take them both down to 12? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:38, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
::Pretend it's the .40 too

Haha too bad there isn't one... WAIT! If you really want to stretch it you could pretend its the compact MP-448, 12 rounds of 9x18mm lol :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I hate when the do something like "the m4 has 20 power and 30 fire rate, the AK has 30 power and 20 fire rate, so there balanced. Then they go weapon x is more accurate than weapon y since its weaker and needs an advantage. I wish when you leveled up you had guns with good advantages that just own.

-k9870

I want a game that keeps the round in the chamber, keeps track of your extra mags (not the one big number bullshit), all the functions to be right, none of the guns to be set in a firing mode they're not in, the ability to switch modes to whatever that weapon has, the correct attachments (no AKs with ACOGs, or M14s and G3s with M203s), the correct animations for reloads, correct fire rates, correct mag capacities, correct zooms on scopes and no zoom on reflex sights/irons sights, its not really too much to ask I don't think. The only thing that would be arguable would be damage stuff does, but for the MOST part if you used the calibre measurement as the damage it would work (i.e. 5.56mm does about 22 damage, 7.62mm does 30, .50 does 50) it's not perfect but I at least want the guns with the same calibres to do the same damage... Rant done. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:38, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:There is a game for you, it's called ArmA. Mainstream arcadey FPS won't have all these features. But I agree at least counting bullet up the pipe would be nice touch. That always bugged me too. I have no idea why CoD games still doesn't have this. Anyway, ACOG (or any other weaver optic) on AK is not a problem via special mount. 203 on G3 and M14 is possible too.

Oh believe me, I wouldn't need ALL that, I still play the mainstream FPSs, it would just be nice, I just kept going with the list ;) And I do know you can technically put an ACOG on an AK or a 203 on the M14 or G3, but it would be nice to see the things that are supposed to be there... there, like the HK79. The attachments thing certainly wouldn't be as important to me as the round in the chamber, and I don't think guns of the same calibre having the same damage would be too much, its not that would take any extra effort... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:Same caliber doesn't always do same damage when shot from different barrels. M16 and M4 is a good example. In case with M16 bullet tumble and fragment thus making more damage, but when the same ammo shot from M4 it does not.

I knew that but didn't want to make my posts too long ;)That's fair, I meant more the stuff that doesn't make sense, like a 12 gauge that does more damage than another 12 gauge because it's pump action vs semi-auto, or like in Modern Warfare 2, which is the game I'm mostly complaning about, the F2000 has a 15.7" barrel and does 30 damage, while the TAR-21 has an 18.1" does 40, I know the idea of damage as a numerical system like this isn't realistic in a lot of ways, but it's the best anyone has been able to come up with so far, and I wouldn't think 2.4 inches of barrel would make that much of a difference. Put it this way, out of the 9 assault rifles in that game there are only 3 different damages, the 30, 40, and 55, keep in mind that the calibres here are 5.56, 7.62, and 7.62 NATO: the M4, ACR, and F2000 do 30, the FAMAS, SCAR, TAR-21, M16A4, and AK-47 do the same (lol what?) at 40, and the FAL does a whopping 55 (because its semi). But the single worst is the UMP and Super V, both .45s with a comparible barrel length, the UMP does 40 (again) and the the Super V does... 25. I know there should be differences but this makes NO SENSE. Sorry, I know this is the Medal Of Honor page, but everyone here seems smarter... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:34, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not a simulator. They needed to differentiate gun's performance. Besides, most people playing it doesn't know shit which caliber it shoots. So probably it's better to just get over it. Try playing hardcore mode and weapon damage won't bother you so much.

I know :) it doesn't really matter too much, it would just be nice, but I'm not expecting it though lol [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:40, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

seriously, no 1911 very disapointing. it might be outdated but Special Forces still use them. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:11, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Who said there won't be a 1911 in the final game? This isn't the final game. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:45, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
i dont know. i just figured since its not on the page already they wouldnt have it. but i hope they do. its a great gun and is used by Spec Ops. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:46, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
i think that all the comparisons come from MW2 because it has an overwhelming amount of flaws. for example- what has been previously stated. and does anyone else find it peculiar that all assault rifles lose the front sight when optics are attached? knowone would do that its stupid. what if there was a long battle and you ran out of battery on a dime, nope your dead now. and i kind of agree with the lack of a back sight because it takes away the point of the reflex being quick if you have to line 3 things to a target instead of the 1-2 or a normal rifle.

==First Part==

This game looks very promising in terms of realism and graphics compared to the other games. I'm excited to see that the game developers are working with REAL special forces operators. The game comes out in Fall 2010. CAN'T FREAKIN WAIT!!!!!!- ArmoredMason619

I've always had a soft spot with this series. I really hope they knock it out of the park with this one.

I'm guessing the guy on the front cover is a Green Beret?-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

:For some reason I though the guy on the front page was a PMC --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Na he is a Green Beret. That's the way they look when they are in a combat zone. They have to grow out a beard and dress like the civilians/insurgents in that particular area.-ArmoredMason619

A World War II shooter series is switching to a modern setting? It'll never work.
:Your kidding right...and sign your posts --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The graphics appear to be on par with ''[[America's Army 3]]'', though hopefully it'll have less problems and a better weapon selection. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The trailer had what looked like an [[FN Minimi#M249-E1 / M249-E2 / M249 Paratrooper SAW|M249 SAW]] variant fitted with an EOTech red dot sight, but I only saw it for a second looking down the sights in first-person mode so couldn't determine wether it was a standard SAW or specialized version like the Paratrooper or [[FN Minimi#FN Minimi SPW|SPW]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I added a screen of the M4A1 and the Minimi/SAw possibilty. --[[User:TheCrazyGunNut|TheCrazyGunNut]]

Ah, cheap EA.. This is so obvious that they are doing this because of MW success. Won't buy just because of this fact.

Or because WWII has been overdone and they wanted to do something else. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

20th century saw so many wars. They could pick any one. The most suitable would be Vietnam war. I can't recall many good games about this conflict. It could be about SF also.

How about Vietcong? http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Vietcong In my personal oppinion the best PC game from Vietnam conflict up to date. I know that the Vietcong wasn't perfect but other games usually wasted their potential (e.g. Conflict Vietnam, Men of Valor) ended as a low quality budget (first Shellshock 67 and many others) or as some crazy VC/NVA-zombie kill fest (recent Shellshock 2).

I agree that there were many other "interesting" conflicts or suitable theathers for FPS games but "supply is influenced by demand". The "anti-terrorist" theme is actual and developers don't want to risk introducing a game that "nobody would want to play". Remember it's all about the money. Actually it's quite strange that if I look backwards I can't recall any good or partially realistic FPS from Afganistan or Iraq theatre - Modern Warefare, appart from other parts of the story, was set partialy in the Middle East but in some fictisious country (and that *** spoliler *** nuking of the whole Marine division *** spoiler *** was complete bullshit) and Modern Warefare 2 was about hunting down some crazy Russian ultranationalists (and *** spoiler *** one rouge American general *** spoiler *** that was bullshit as well). No offence to Call of Duty but I personally hope that Medal of Honor would not turn into such killfest of stupid AI NPC duchebags thrown in absolutely ridiculous waves into a single coridor where you have to kill more than 70 opponents on less than 100 square feet ...

:::Wow, so doing something original is bullshit? I mean, come on; I'd rather shoot 70 guys in a single cooridor than simply go from cave to cave, shooting the occasional militant, or riding about in my vehicle until I hit a bomb and get ambushed. Generic examples I know, but put simply, fighting a military-trained, fully-equipped soldier is a lot more exciting than some fanatical militant using 30-year-old weapons. Heck, even America's Army created a fictional enemy for the US Army to fight.

Judging by what I'm seeing in the trailer this is going to be far from any CoD style of modern warfare. This shit looks seriously hardcore in terms of trying to replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay. I guess only time will tell. Hopefully by then they fix the damn gas block thing. Fuck that pisses me off. These guys are working with tier 1 operators but they don't want to model the damn gun correctly. Anybody with even slight knowledge of an AR-15 platform would notice this error. It's a big frickin error.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:::"replicate actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay"? So coalition forces playing in a sandbox there? And duh, there is a gas-block, it's just too low-profile and you cannot see it.

::::Even if the gas block isn't there, does it really matter? The average gamer probably doesn't know, or care, what a gas block is, let alone whether it's actually there or not; and the Medal of Honor series goes for what looks cool (such as the Flak Tower in Airborne), not what's realistic.

Don't change the intent of my words. Let me rephrase :::"replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan fighting into gameplay." There happy? As well the use of a low profile gas block seems like an excuse. What are the chances that every M4 has a low profile gas block when there are attached optics?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:::Why not? It's a game about hi-speed low-drag tear1 omfgd3ltasealz special forces operators.
::::That's ''Tier'' 1. And even a low-profile gas block would still be visible on the barrel where the standard FSP would be due to the length of the gas tube. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

North American release date is October 12, 2010. Europe is October 15.-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFpgNJZ8Fhc&playnext_from=TL&videos=vd-xeQ7FyHw
^ At 0:56, 1:04, 1:16 you can see a stock, body, and barrel of a M14 EBR.
At O:43 you can see what I believe to be some kind of M240.*EDIT: Mk 46 Mod 0*
All along the trailer are M4s with optics and different accessories. -DeltaOp
:Was the Mark 14 EBR even fielded yet in 2002? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

- Nope. EBR was designed around that date - 2001/2002 but first units (mostly from Navy Seals) were issued this rifle later on in 2004. So it's probably another game inaccuracy.

Who said it was set in 2002? And the gas block isn't removed for optics like in Call Of Duty, it's removed when the M203's flip up sight is on top, I'm thinking it's not to block that, not that I think it would block it, but that's when it's not there, not because of optics. EDIT: Wow my bad, it is set then, and I was thinking the M203 was an attachment, but its fixed on like in BFBC2, wow, I feel dumb lol. EDIT #2: I figured it out, the M16 removes the front sight for optics, but the M4 doesn't. Odd. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

== Green Beret on cover ==
It's ''Cowboy''! [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/12/03/news-bearded-guy-on-medal-of-honor-cover-is-real.aspx] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:Lmao. Oh i didnt think of that one. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Anyone think its kinda odd that the Rangers seem to be doing alot of the work. along with the Green Beret. Wouldnt Delta Force/Navy SEALs be doing most of the stuff?

1st SFOD-D and Navy SEALs are, let's say, "equal" to Special Forces concerning their roles within US SOCOM. They are highly trained operators used for specific and "delicate" stuff. Rangers are more like muscless used for more "dirty" tasks. In reality, you would rather send a Special Forces A-Team to do cool things like - to recon the enemy airfield, to pin point potential high-value targets, to set observation post for calling CAS missions or to set sniping posts with 18B class operators with sniper rifles; while few C-130s packed with Ranger chalks would wait to "go-order" so they can jump in, do all the hard work and blow the enemy to pieces. Special Forces (Delta/SEALs etc.) are too valuable for such things. Even though, they are capable of kicking some serious ass, it is not practical to "mass" several A- or SEAL teams for a task, which bunch of Ranger squads could do better.[Ragnar]

okay thats true, but i just dont see why there wouldnt be SOME Operators or SEALs, think about this. Rangers are like the backbone of USSOCOM, Green Berets, are trained in Reconaissance, but if u want to kick some serious Taliban ass, u send in Operators or SEALs, because they excel at kickin' the door down, and opening up some whoop-ass. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:40, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
:Who is the "Operators"?
::Delta "Operators". [[User:Pz.Abt.100|Pz.Abt.100]] 22:40, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

but really, i no Delta is more of a mission specific unit, but seriously what is America's best military asset? 1stSFOD-D. why? because they have close to 500 Operators, the best in the world. and officially they dont exist. political bull shit in the way, no problemo. they dont exist. its denieble if you send them in.[[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 19:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

== Guns revealed in multi-player demo at E3 ==
(These are just what I could spot while watching it on TV)
*Beretta 92FS/M9 (not a 92SB like in CoD, had the squared-off trigger guard)
*Pump-action shotgun I couldn't identify (they only showed it from the back)
*Bolt-action sniper rifle, presumably a Remington M24 (only saw it from the back and right side as the player was working the bolt)
*Not actually a new gun, but the M4A1 also had a low-profile front BUIS mounted on the RIS is some scenes
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

If you check the kill feed immediately after the kill with the sniper rifle, the identifies the unknown rifle as a Sako M57. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I found some footage: http://videos.pcgames.de/v/MuuqC3iXMpw/Medal-of-Honor/Multiplayer-Gameplay-E3-2010/ (the shotgun is a TOZ-194)

More confirmed weapons. I recommend you keep your eye to the left of the screen, below the radar, to see some weapons we have missed while watching the video.

RPK-Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

RPG 7-In-game footage

AK-47-Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

AT-4 (I think by the ingame footage)

M9- From ingame footage

SVD Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M249 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

TT-30 Seen ingame

MP7A1 This one was very hard to see (Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M-21 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

870MCS Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M60 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

== List ==
I'm gonna put all the ones I've seen down, so we've got one big list (this is all from the 11 minute long multiplayer video, both seen on screen and on the killfeed) If the names are given (killfeed ones) I'm writing them exactly as they are named in game. For the ones that aren't named I'll name them what they are.

M16

M203

AK-47

GP-30

M249

PKM

M4

AKS-74u

870MCS

TOZ-194

AT4

RPG-7

M21

SVD (NOTE: Has a straight .308 magazine)

M24

SV-98

M9

MP-443 (NOTE: Appears as the Tariq, which I thought that was an Iraqi-made Beretta clone...)

(From here down is not in the Beta)

RPK

MP7A1

M240

M60

M14 EBR (Seen in other videos. It is NOT the same as the M21 like it is in certain other games, the M21 has a normal M21 type body and stock, BOTH are in this.) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==Spliting into sections ==
Wont it make sence to make two sections ? One with MP´s guns and one with SP´s guns. I think it will - because they dont use same engine, so guns can be different.

Why would the single player and multiplayer use different engines? That makes no sense. It would make the modelers have to model everything twice, and take up twice as much space on disc. No. We're not going to do that.-protoAuthor 19:35, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

: It '''USES''' different engines. MP is running on frostbite, and SP is running on UT3 one.

Not sure if i'm doing this right, but yes it uses different engines, and the modelers do not have to model everything twice, they can easily import it from a common format to both engine's formats, PSK Mesh (or something) for UT3, and a new version of bundledmesh contained in RES files for frostbite. You don't have to model it twice, you just export within both engines.

:It still makes no sense to split up the page. But thank you for enlightening me to something that still makes no sense to me. Why would they do that?-protoAuthor 16:54, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The only reason i could possibly see would be to make a comparable multiplayer experience for BFBC2 players, And they might have already started building singleplayer on the unreal engine, which most if not all of the previous MoH games used. In my opinion, it shouldn't be split either, means some firearms would be listed twice. btw this isn't the original poster, this is the guy from the post before proto's last.

: Ok than. It doesnt have to be split, but there should be atlest writed to each screenshot " This is from Multiplayer/ Singleplayer". And just one little '''BTW''': They modelled it twice. As you can see, M4 or MK46 '''''HAVE''''' different models.

That's because the M4 and Mk. 46 are different guns, silly.-protoAuthor 04:00, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Heh. I mean that M4 looks different in SP and MP. Same with Mk.46

They do look different but I think its just because one sets from that first trailer a while ago, game's graphics always get better as develpment keeps going, but you might be right to, I was just throwing that out there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:00, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== LMG Special Weapons ==

In the sniper class you get C4, in the special ops class you get a rocket, and with an assault rifle in the rifleman class you get a launcher... so what do you get if you equip an LMG? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:56, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

more ammo?

:Absolutely nothing. You have 2 spare 150 round mags (in the beta, with the PK).
::You have self-destruct vest.

Is that a joke or can you actually be a suicide bomber, cause what would the American gunners get? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:14, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:C4

It is then? Okay cool, I figured but I wasn't sure, I can't check because the 360 beta was delayed :( [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:37, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
== Best of 3 shooters? ==

I have to say, out of the 3 FPS games that will be coming out in Q4 (this one, Spec Ops: The Line, and CoD: Black Ops), I am looking forward to Medal of Honor the most. From what I've seen about the other two, they look like they're filled with sensationalist b.s. . -Any Mouse

:MoH looks WAY to much like Bad Company 2, and I think it's EAs fault. They want to capitalize on the modern warfare craze so much, they're using another popular series to boost sales. To be honest, MOH looks like BC2 with Taliban, and I'll most likely not be getting it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Medal of honor is not going to be way too much like BC2 because the gameplay will be much more tactical and realistic. Like real modern warfare.

:Says you man. Face it, it's going to be bought by the same type of people who buy MW2 and BC2, mostly idiot kids ranging from 10 to 15 who just wanna get four man sprays and noob tubes across the map. This is a console FPS that can be bought by anyone, and has nothing to offer that will make it overly unique, so it will end up like MW2 and BC2, noob weapons will arise, and it will just be another chaotic FPS. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:You got a point there.

Spec Ops: the Line is a third person shooter, not an FPS.

Sorry, my bad. I thought it was one of those deals like Fallout 3 where you could switch from first-to-third-person and back -Any Mouse

== Animations ==

I know this is off-topic, but am I the only one bothered by the way your character moves? If a gun is bouncing around in your hands while you move like that, there's gotta be something wrong...

I think that only happens in multiplayer due to it being a different engine, but yeah it is weird

I was really psyched about the game untill i found out it was made by the people who made BF-BD2. you said it was a different engine. does that mean that it will be different creators or what? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:04, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

== Full Auto M16A4 ==

Wouldn't having an M16A4 on full auto make it a C7A1? I know there are a few other differences, but they're all internal, it's the only difference visible in some way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:23, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

:Well I would have said M16A3, but those didn't have rails. So yes, the only M16 variant that has an RIS system and goes full-auto is the C7A2, so indeed this new game uses a C7. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::M16A4 with FA lower - what could be easier

:Personally, I wouldn't call "full-auto" M16A4 a C7A2. C7A2 has some, more or less significant, differences - e.g. ambidextrous fire selector or retractable stock. Plus Canadian military did not use full length RIS systems (e.g. like King Arms M5 on M16A4) on their C7s. Full-auto M16A4 is just another game-developer inaccuracy created by lack of knowledge about firearms. Unfortunately, it's a trend in nowadays mainstream FPS like Modern Warfare or Battlefield Bad Company. Game developers just give a sh*t about this stuff. 13-year-old kids screaming and b*tching in multiplayer would not notice the difference. [Ragnar]
:: 3-burst is for nubs that can't cut it by themselves.

::The M5 RAS on the M16A4 is made by KAC, not King Arms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:33, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Of course I realize that having it full auto is just a screw up, like in most movies, and I'm not talking about the C7A2, with the green furniture and ambi controls, I meant the C7A1, which is the same in terms of appearance. Here's one without an ELCAN, because I know someone will complain about that:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/7/76/20080716042205!C7A1_with_IronSights.JPG
Oh and you can put the KAC Rails on any M16-length AR, so that's not really an issue, some of the C7A1s (like the one pictured) had them put on before the C7A2 was introduced with the TRIAD. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:22, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:It could be a C7, but really, it's just EA's lack of knowledge about weapons, cause full auto is what every assault rifle shoots, right? Man, games like Call of Duty 4 tried their best to keep weapons accurate, now it's all about tacticool weapons that fire full auto and have cool sights and nice finishes. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah I know, and guns don't need to be re-chambered after they run empty too :p in this and Bad Company 2, it's kind of distracting when I'm playing to be honest, well, I've gotten used to it a little more by now. Okay what I don't get is why can't it be listed as a C7A1? Or at least mentioned... If there was an gun listed as an M4 (not A1) and it was firing full auto you guys would have no problem saying it's actually an M4A1, or an AK-47 is really an AKM, so why can't the M16 really be a C7? I realize it's just a mistake on the developer's part, but that doesn't stop us pointing out the other ones... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:56, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think it would be a good idea if we mentioned that in reality, this would class it as a C7A1 etc. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 18:26, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Has there even ever been any instances of a burst-firing M4 used in any movie or video game? At any rate, I think just noting that it's inaccurately portrayed as full auto is enough. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:43, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well if you talk to the Green Beret on Deadliest Warrior, he'll tell you the M4 can go burst AND full auto! But yeah, just classify the M16 in MOH as a C7A1, cause in reality that's what it is. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/1009334.page
Best 5 minutes of my life reading this! [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:01, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

''Well if you talk to the Green Beret on Deadliest Warrior, he'll tell you the M4 can go burst AND full auto!'' - Believe it or not, 4-position selectors for AR-15 type rifles exist. There should be a link to the patent in the Season 2 discussion. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 22:44, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

The so-called "Green Berets" on that show were idiot actors who didn't do their research, so I don't really give a crap about what they say. The M4A1 as used by the US military is safe/semi/auto, no burst. 4-pos selectors may exist, but the US military does not use them. That also wasn't an answer my question. ''Have there ever been any instances of a burst-firing M4 used in any movie or video game?'' By "burst-firing M4", I mean the M4 with M16A2/A4 trigger group as issued en mass to regular US Army troops. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I only know of two games that have M4s with the A2/A4 trigger group. There's one of the Call of Duty Modern Warfare games for the Nintendo DS, and then there's the Battlefield 2 mod [[Project Reality]], where it features both burst-firing M4s for the Americans and full-auto M4A1s for the Israelis.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:58, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Thank you, that ''did'' answer my question. Also, lol @the thread on EA Forums. That was a pretty entertaining read. Though I quite disagree with the guy who claims you can't know anything about an M16 or other firearm without having handled or used one. I've never handled an M16, but I still know the difference between an A1, A2, A3, and A4. Good thing I quit bothering with that place within the first few days I registered, otherwise I'd probably be ankle-deep in that ****storm. XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:52, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
:::To Hoot471, that forum nearly gave me a headsplosion, how can people be so unbelievably ignorant and stupid?! - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Hi-Def MP videos ==

You guys might want to check this out: On YouTube, there's someone by the name of deluxe345 who has Hi-Definition videos from the Medal of Honor multiplayer (there are 3 or 4). Also, in one of these videos, I spotted an M224 mortar in the killfeed.

==360 Beta?==
Alright, does anyone on Earth have a clue when the 360 beta for this comes out!? PS3 and PC went up June 21st, and yet 360 is still delayed, anyone got a clue? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I got deployed for deepwater horizon so no vid games till september. I seriously wish that the release had been on time, I could have played it.

==Clip/Magazine==
A frivolous debate, but why oh why must they call the magazines "clips" in the game? Yuck. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I don't know why, but the same error happened in an episode in Lois & Clark. They probably got confused with clips and magazines since that they are both similar. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 19:02, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

There is nothing similar between a clip and a magazine. A Magazine is a block that stores the bullets, a clip is a strip of metal that holds the bullets that are then FED into a Magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:44, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

=="The Catalyst" Linkin Park song trailer==

Well, there gave been some new guns spotted and i already identified few of them. But can someone help me with this ?
[[Image:MOHUNKNOWNGUN.JPG|500px|thumb|center|]]

Magazine seems to wide and big for 5.56. I truly need help with this.

Could it be the 417 ?

I'm pretty sure the MP5 is shown at one point in the trailer. I'd have to look at the trailer again to find the exact point, but I'll update when I do find the time stamp. Lets hope we see the MP5 in multiplayer as well as the campaign if my spot is correct. Also, I'm pretty sure the picture shown above is just the M4A1, but I'm not 100%. --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 22:33, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
1:30 seconds in, on the operator's chest. I am pretty sure that's an MP5A3 or A5. Can anyone confirm? --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 23:22, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The A-Team (2010)

2010-07-29T01:00:02Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* Hannibal's sidearm */

I just watched the trailer. Is that tank an XM8 Buford? Wow.

A-Team -- B-movie?

''-Implying B-movie is a bad thing.''--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 15:44, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

No shit. I mean come on, the trailer shows one of the team shooting down an F-18 with a mounted machine gun on a tank, WHILE THE TANK IS FALLING OUT OF THE GODDAMNED SKY!!! Even kicking your transmission of disbelief into high gear won't help that.[[User:StrikerDelta|StrikerDelta]]
:Consider the source material. You've got four special forces guys who expend thousands of rounds of ammo and yet manage to not even wound, much less kill, anyone in five years, all while somehow evading arrest while riding around in a VERY distinctive vehicle driven by an even more distinctive driver. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 05:13, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Well dude if you pay attention to the shows audience, it was a helluva a lot of kids on a friday night, they didn't want it to be to violent, but you have to give them this, of there was a tire to be shot it was shot.
I think the original was more believable cause it was back in the day no satellites and databases no APB's so its probably hard to catch them if they go all around, nowadays the show wouldn't work just to unrealistic.
it looked like a drone not a fighter
Yeah its a drone still stupid

it aspost to be an over the top action movies

It's an MQ-1 Predator which is a UAV. Also the film is Fictitious. Made for peoples enjoyment to get away from the real world by watching something impossible done on film. what's the problem with that.
[[User:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]

also lately in films and tv show they have been showing UAV to by mounted with machine guns when they can only by fitted with missiles and bombs.

== M4A1 ==

Can anyone post some links or pictures of these rifles used in the Movie?
I am really loving those Olive Foregrips and Stock.

UPDATE: Could the M4A1 actually be this?
[[Image:M6A1.jpg|thumb|right|500px|LWRC M6A1, 5.56x45mm NATO]]
:no, this is too expensive. Also note their rifles have step-down on the barrels for nubtube fixation.

::Armorers tend to mostly use what they have in inventory already. They're not going to go out and buy all-new ARs (since all such rifles are so similar). It's more likely that these are just regular M4A1s that have been fitted with the olive furniture. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:33, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

::And the M203 is ''not'' a "noob tube"... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Right, someone's been playing too much MW2 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

The gun is in fact the LWRC M6A1.

About these M4s. I actually saw a picture of the A-Team running away from an explosion, in IMDB, okay and I saw Hannibal's M4 had an EOTech sight on it. And Face's M4 must have been the only one with the Red Dot Sight on it. I didn't want to post the actual picture, due to me fearing copyright, but is it alright if I provide just the link to that picture? [[User:Shoockeye7665|Shoockeye7665]] 12:03, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Why does it still say tan magpul furniture, looks FG to me. - skyrider

== Hannibal's sidearm ==

No doubt about it: Hannibal's 1911 is in fact a Para-ord. The slide serrations spell it all out on this one. 6 in back - offset under sights - with 3 in front. Looks like a P14 with front cocking serrations milled, or more likely an S14 with night sights. You even see the finish in the movie, and it almost looks like they've just sprayed over the stainless. Regardless, it's a Para. If not one specific, it could just be a mix-master hi-cap. --[[User:Gwhysow|Gwhysow]] 23:11, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I recently saw a production still in a magazine of Hannibal and he had a shoulder holster on with what appeared to carry a 1911 variant possibly a Kimber Custom II.

Any chance at someone identifing the brand/type of shoulder holster that Hannibal uses? [[Spades of Columbia]]

Just saw the movie last night; Hannibal's 1911 is most certainly not a Kimber of any sort. Slide serrations are way off, so who knows. Almost looked like a custom slide from Caspian, but still wouldn't bet on it.

As for the leather shoulder rig, it looked a lot like a DeSantis.

To me the 1911 looks like a Para p-14 or some sort of variant, take a look at one of the promo pics where you can see it in the shoulder holster. Looks like a double-stack grip to me, but maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me.

:I just saw this movie, and I agree that it's not a Kimber Warrior (lacks the Picatinny rail). My guess is Colt XSE. It's also likely that it was a custom 1911 assembled by the movie's armorers; the slide could be Colt, frame could be something else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:49, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

No it's defiantly a Kimber possibly a Custom some don't have rails. Confirmed by the films armorer the same guy who confirmed Face's Glock as a 17 standard finish.

::I need to see that evidence before you change it back (link please). And if it's not a Warrior, then don't put down that it is. It's better to say "Unknown 1911" if we don't know the exact model. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 11:03, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:: If I can find it I will post the link but I watched as a special on Sleuth or FX I forget.

It seems that Hannible uses multiply 1911's through out the movie...but it looked as if the 1911 that Lynch said was Hannibles personal weapon that he attempted to frame hannible with at the end of the movie was a Nighthawk GRP or even the enforcer model. But pretty sure he didn't use the same 1911 the whole time. [[Spades of Columbia]]

::The gun was heavily ruined to make it look more used by a Veteran. When Hannibal pulled a gun on Baracus I had seen a large logo (that not seen a trademark) on the right side of the slide near the front grooves (Can anyone confirm?). It is possible that this logo is of the Rangers, as was done with the logo of SEAL TEAM 4 on the Augustus Gibbons Colt XSE in [[XXX 2: State of the Union#Colt XSE M1911|XXX 2]]. [[User: Charly Driver|Charly Driver]]

it could be a Nickel Plated Nighthawk FLX. these are fairly new guns, but as stated on the page. are double stacked.

[[Image:FLX 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Nighthawk FLX - .45 ACP]]

I'd say thats probably a very accurate guess. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 05:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Good lookin piece but the front grip serrations are all kinds of diffrent.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:50, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

It can't be a double stack/para. In that last picture you see more than 3 serrations in the front and you can even imagine a single stack mag at the bottom. Also you can see in the grip/right above the trigger area that it is flat. Double stack guns have it widen for the wide magazine.
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/para1.jpg
look straight above the magazine catch
EDIT: Actually after rewatching, it is probably both and it is just switched throughout the movie- skyrider

Yeah, thats what i was saying. Hannible uses more then one 1911 in this movie.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:00, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I love Nighthawk 1911's - and I would like to see one in a movie - but his 1911 doesn't run a 2011 frame.--[[User:Gwhysow|Gwhysow]] 18:33, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

its a shame. ud think with games like MW2 or Medal of Honor that has Elite units ud think theyd have Multiple Nighthawk variants. Delta Force uses them thanks to larry Vickers.

== Not a lot of new guns ==

I am a bit disappointed that they didn't have a wide variety of weapons used int his movie [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

:I was a little more disappointed by the dialogue, the way in which the action scenes were directed, and the excessive cheese throughout. And I tend to think that kind of stuff matters a little more than the variety of weapons. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:56, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I saw a guy with an Uzi at the bank, and I'm sure the Sig 552 isn't. It has a ful rail on top.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 18:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

:I don't think it was a 556; the receiver didn't look like it (mostly around the magazine well). Also, they make continuous rails for the 552. I think it's more likely that they just took a 552, removed the stock, and gave it the upper rail, though I could be wrong. We'll see when the Blu Ray becomes available. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:51, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I thought it was a 552 the first time. After viewing again I'm pretty sure it was the 556 pistol, it seemed to be using STANAG magazines. And for posterity, I enjoyed the stupid dialog and oozing cheese. C'mon its the A Team its not gonna be oscar worthy, its gonna be guns, explosions, stupidity and deus ex machina. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 15:50, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:: The first thing that came to mind when I saw Pike carrying the "552" was (strangely enough) a KAC PDW or a Robinson XCR... though I admit I never paid that much attention to what he was using. :S (BTW, I also enjoyed it for it's over-the-top cheesiness. It's exactly what I was expecting out of an A-team movie.)*EDIT* just saw the movie again with my GF... when Pike first gets out of the car at the beginning of the scene I could clearly tell it was a Sig 552. No full-top rail, no forward vertical grip that I could see. Later the gun looks like it may have switched. This may be either an editing or continuity error.

It looks just like the Sig 556 pistol...[[Spades of Columbia]]

:Somebody added some new pictures:

:[[Image:A-TEAM_PIKE.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:That is definitely a SIG 552 with the stock removed. Handguards, magwell, sights, etc. are totally wrong for a 556. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:41, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

you are correct...the front gas adjustment is a 552 design and not even close the 556.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:35, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

== Mini 14 ==
Hannibal was firing full auto, wouldn't that make it an AC-556? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:32, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

He may have just been firing quickly, like they did in the original TV show.

In the picture we have, it looks like a Ruger Mini 14 stainless with a factory ruger folding stock. Look at the front sight. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:29, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

He was using a stainless semi-auto with the older front blade sight, and a factory folding stock. I didn't notice what I'd call full auto firing, just rapid fire semi-auto. I believe the pic on the main page is in fact an AC-556, and not representative of the one used in the film. The one in the film did NOT have the birdcage flash-hider or the mid-barrel mounted front sight. For reference, it was this gun: http://www.armco-guns.com/Mini%2014%20folder%20%202.JPG --[[User:Rugerlvr|Rugerlvr]] 00:46, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:If he was firing semi-auto, then he had an impossibly fast trigger finger. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:56, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

The sound editing could have made it sound full auto. I'll need to watch the movie again [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:30, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

== Nice Little Things ==

There were a few small things in this movie that made me smile, things you don't see in most movies, like when Pike was in the car and they were gonna shoot him, and the CIA guys were failing with the Beretta, and one called it a silencer and he muttered something about it being a suppressor. And I also noticed for once the Armorer was in the credits, as "Armorer/Firearms", and for the most part all the fights and reloading and such were very good, there were only a couple little things that seemed a ''little'' off, but it was almost perfect :)

Pike may have been a traitorous fink, but at least he wasn't stupid. Why is the CIA always inept, despite being super-evil? They can listen to your phone conversations half a world away but ''still'' can't pull of their evil schemes. 2 things I didn't like about the embassy scene: One, the CIA just walks through security. I was so wishing a dozen marines with M16s would stop them, and 2: the extradition order. If Sosa was a bright as she usually was, she would have maid sure it wasn't a fake. I wouldn't put it past the oh-so-evil CIA to do that.

== Mk 19 ==

wasnt there one at the end of the film?

When? I remember an M2, but no Mk19.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:23, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

near the end, at the docks, where lynch is up on that crane. I could have sworn there was a Mk 19 sitting next to him.

== Frankfurt am Main skyscrapers ==

You can replace the "Koeniggs Bank" in the last section (where Baracus fires the M203 launcher) with "Königsbank". I am not sure if the "ö" causes problems with the code of this website, but you may give it a try. --Paul_Baeumer [[Special:Contributions/84.181.224.167|84.181.224.167]] 18:15, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Pikes SIG ==

Im sure pike was using a 228 not a 226 as it looked compact and for some reason i couted off his rounds he fired before reloading. 13, same mag cap as the 228 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 18:01, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

2010-07-09T23:14:20Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* The 1911 in-game */

Ah, goddamnit. I wanted to do this.
Well, maybe i can make it up to IMFDB standards sometime, just '''DON'T''' do Half-Life 2. - [[User:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]

==MP5==
This is not an MP5A3/SD as previously suggested, as it has a flat sided receiver with pictogram markings instead of the S-E-F markings on the A3.

Wrong, It's an MP5N/SDN, it doesn't have the 4th selector option.

:Please, keep the commentary on the discussion page. At any rate, I added a capture with a clearer view of the selector and its lack of a fourth position. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:42, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

==Screenshots==
I have a lot of shots for the page and will upload them tommorow. -GM

I've got a crapload of good real pictures for a lot of the guns, but I don't have any clue as to how to upload them, so, for anyone that can, email me at r1c0ch37@gmail.com

== You know what would have been better? ==

I kinda wished the creators of this game made more guns for us to use. There are so many modern firearms at least they could put in the multiplayer. Like the G36 carrying handle instead of the rail, H&K machineguns, H&K grenade launchers, a full auto M16 in the multiplayer, the option to put every accessory on your primary, like sights, suppressor, and grenade launcher all in one instead of just pick only one. I know they did that for balance, but screw balance. Let's see, what else? The UMP, Mac-10, Glocks (specificly the Glock 18), Drum magazines, AUG, Tavor, SA80/L85A1, L96A1, MP7A1. I know I'm starting to sound like I'm turning the gun choices of COD4 into Rainbow Six, but that's why I like that game a lot because it has SO MANY GUNS to pick from and the option of putting whatever you want. I want the ability to change firing modes, to add and take off suppressors. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:34, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

: Not to mention having the actual front sight posts still present on optic-equipped M16s and M4s would have been nice. I realize they probably removed it to give better visibility, but still. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:40, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

::Firing selectors would have been nice. Full auto or nothing is kind of lame. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:::According to gamers, the military doesn't use semi-automatic (sarcasm). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:31, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Spartan198
:Yet it's all modeled on semi. Or safe.-protoAuthor 01:45, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

::Well screw hardcore gamers. I have most of the Tom Clancy games and those you can select weapons to semi and auto and even some have bursts mode[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:06,
3 April 2009 (UTC)

:::I agree completely with you. In most situations in-game, I seemingly always find myself tapping the trigger for single shots instead of firing bursts. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

i would have liked to have seen the L96A1 and or the AW50F, as these would have been awesome in cod, also the glock 18, SR-25, and i would have liked to do my own customising of weapons, like on the M16 on the modified version you lose the front sights which just look wrong.

Is ok to put pics on this from other websites. [[User:Drjuki]]

I want a goddamm regular FN FAL and a IMI Galil AR with the wood hand guards. They would be perfect in the hands of terrorists in the game. They already have the G3 why not a FN FAL?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

i would have liked to customised the weapons myself

In my opinion the worst choice of the Infinity Ward was the selection of the MP-44 as "final unlock": is older than the AK-47 and cannot be modified, excepted the selection of the camouiflage painting. Why call the game "Modern Warfare" if the (teorically) ultimate gun is also the oldest???
[[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]] 03-12-2009

I believe the mp44 aka sturm was put in there as an Easter Egg of sorts since this was the first Call of Duty to date that wasnt about WW2.

== Desert Eagle ==

what finishes do the Desert Eagles have in the game? IMI lists several variants http://www.magnumresearch.com/CustomFinishes.asp

Just stainless steel, I think. But don't quote me. I never use it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198
the game has chrome and titanium gold.

Stainless steel, as well as gold once you reach level 55.

The Desert Eagles don't come in stainless steel. It would be too goddamn shiny. It uses a chrome-plating finish. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 06:29, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

==P90 comments.==
whoever keeps deleting my edits bugger off, this gun is awesome it is easy to aim and has awesome stopping power, and to say it is weak and inaccurate is just plain rubbish, u would have to be a fool to fail to kill an oppo with this gun

''Have at it, but remember - this is the last time I play nice.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 19:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

this weapon is the fantastic it is very easy to aim it has good stopping power and at close range it is downright lethal

Can't we all play nice?!?! [[User:Drjuki]]

I stopped playing COD4 because of peoples bickering "Thats a noob gun" "you're camping" "that perk sucks"

There is a crowd who all believe what perks everyoe should have and what weapons, Id love to see a game by their rules, it would be boring. So waiting a few minuites behid a corner is camping, and i'm kicked for it, but they can sit in a building with a siper level the whole match? Tehn there is the p90 debate. Let people who like it use it, do't start telling them there a noob and being unfair.

Come on clutch! Don't be so evil on the kid.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Any weapon or perk combination you use to kill an opposing player is deemed "noobish". Anymore I just laugh their rants off and go on with the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

I think it's sad people (including myself) stop playing the very good multiplayer because of the other players who just ruin it with loud, abusive talking, silly arguments about trivial matters, and generally making it uncomfortable. [[User:Mcguinness]]

the noobish comment is spot on as if u use something that the other gamers dont like noobish sod that i kill the lot of em, and the silly arguements comment is also right it gets down right annoying

== No Browning M2? ==
Why is there no Browning on the page? It was clearly seen in-game.

umm i dont think glitching outside of the map counts unles your counting the one on the M1 ambrams -scarecrow

:As long as it's in the game, it counts to be in the article. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 06:31, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

== Red Dot Sight ==
The red dot sight on the M4 SOPMOD is a Sure Shot Reflex Sight, not a C-More. [[http://www.afmo.com/Sure_Shot_Reflex_Sight_p/217-00588.htm]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

==The 1911 Griggs used looks more like a Kimber TLE stainless==

About the Springfield 1911 in the game I also think it is a Springfield opposed to a Kimber Warrior because I have one and the grip is a lighter color plus it has a different magazine.

umm its a stainless (silver colour) 1911 isnt it? where does it say on the page its a kimber? -scarecrow

==Excerpt from Remington 700P==
*''"Oddly, the M40A3 also seen in game is very much the same weapon, although in the game they have slightly different attributes."''

I have to agree and disagree with this statement, as they can't be classified "as the same weapon", since the M40A3 has its own model number, designation, and role in the Marine Corps; and was modified from the R700P, one change being the finely rifled heavy barrel. However, both rifles, as mentioned before, are made from the Remington 700 model. I think this should be clarified a bit more clearly. Any thoughts? --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 12:57, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Just quick, is the 700p the ltr model or not? Can you tell? [[User:Mcguinness]]

== Bluey? ==
I noticed that some M4's and M16's have "Bluey" on the side. Is there a reason for this? Or just something the designers put in?

*I think it's "Blue 4," possibly to identify who the rifle belongs to in the squad. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:34, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

yea it says blue 4 on both a M4 and M16 -scarecrow

== M4/M16 ==
I added a little more information about how the gas block removal on an M4/M16 would effect the firearm. It is true that is the gas block is removed that the next round will not chamber automatically. the bolt would have to be racked to load a new round. I just thought I'd add that information to the page. It can be removed if desired. [[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== M4 Barrel ==
If anyone's still looking at this page, does it look to you like the M4 has a 16" barrel? It does to me. A perfectly straight 16" barrel (no M203 cuts) and the old style M4 stock. I believe that makes it exactly the same as the C8, which was mentioned as being what the SAS really use, so maybe the M4 in this game is really a C8. If anyone can counter this feel free.

You're right about the barrel, I think, but the C8 has a 14.5", not a 16". Furthermore, if you look at the rifle without any optics, it has an A2 style rear sight, while the C8's is A1 style.

The barrel looks longer because the front sight/gas block is removed when equipped with optics. If you take into account the length of the front sight, the barrel evens out at around 14.5 inches. The "standard" C8 has a 14.5 inch A1 profile barrel, but the C8FTHB (the version used by SAS under the designation L119A1) has a 16.1 inch barrel that bulges out where the M203 step is on an M4 barrel. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:27, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

The L119A1's the SFW, not the FTHB. Although in practice there's probably not much difference. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh right, I forgot about the front sight being removed. Since you never have a carry handle in the SAS missions I wasn't counting that, and I was thinking SFW when I said C8.

Looks like the FTHB to me. L119A1 - [http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/images/M4/C8andAG36.jpg] C8FTHB - [http://www.casr.ca/101-smallarm-1-c8fthb-rifle.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:51, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

The only difference is that the SFW has a stronger front sight to use the HK AG-C/L17A1 grenade launcher.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:29, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Why would a stronger front sight be needed when the AG-C is RIS-mounted? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:44, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

==The 1911 in-game==

The article is full of incorrect information. The MEU (SOC) pistol does have novak sights and a match grade trigger nowadays, and a Springfield Loaded model has front cocking serrations which the 1911 ingame does not. I don't see how it's anymore a Springfield Loaded than the other models the article lists it as not being. It seems obvious it's not any specific model of a 1911 but I'd say it's closer to the MEU (SOC) pistol than anything else. The MEU (SOC) pistol even uses desert tan gunner grips now that look just like the ones in the game.

Not that I disagree that the Springfield Armory Professional 1911 is the 1911 model in-game, but I think that there ''is'' a possibility that it might be a Nighthawk Custom Enforcer Series or GRP 1911. Why? Because the armed forces would likely use higher-ended companies like Nighthawk. Anyway, just a possibility. Any thoughts?

LINKS:

* http://www.nighthawktactical.com/The_Enforcer.html

* http://www.nighthawktactical.com/GRP.html

--[[User:Blemo]] 22:45, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

That's a negative. The Nighthawk Enforcer is basically a Kimber Warrior without the rail, and the rail wasn't the only thing that made the Kimber Warrior a misidentification. The Novak sights are different, and it has a flat top strap across the slide. As far as the military using "higher end companies" They usually buy what's most cost effective and not necessarily best quality, and since Nighthawk Custom makes.... custom firearms, I doubt they'd have a contract that would be cheap, or at least cheaper than competitors. It's still a Professional. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 02:51, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

:I see. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 06:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

It definitly has those grips though, that was the first thing I noticed. It might not be an Enforcer, but it has the same grips.
Here (in tan):

link: http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/detail.aspx?ID=133#

Oh and thanks Blemo for bringing this up anyway because I've been trying to put together an airsoft replica of this 1911 for a while, and now I've finally got those damn grips, couldn't find 'em anywhere. I also put together the M4 SOPMOD the S.A.S. use in game as my primary, which makes me Captain Price :D

EDIT: You guys think it could be this one, a Springfield Armory Loaded? Just add the grips I linked above, I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same otherwise.

http://www.bullshooterssupply.com/store/images/springfield_armory_1911_a1_px9109lp.jpg

EDIT 2: I used my not so amazing MS Paint skills to put this together for you guys (and me)

[[Image:CaptainPriceSALoaded.JPG|thumb]]

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:32, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

It could be a customized Colt since the front sight does not seem to dovetailed into the slide--[[User:Jan|Jan]] 22:36, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for the MS Paint image, Alex. =] Sadly, I'd hate to burst your bubble and say that the ejection port should not be as "shiny" as seen in this image. Plus, the coloration of the slide and frame should be darker. (although it may just be the lighting). --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 06:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

I know, but the barrel, bushing, and trigger are some kind of "silver", whether it be stainless, chrome, nickel-plated, though I'd say stainless the point is those parts are "silver" [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

although more likely for Special Ops to be using Nighthawk's i dont think the designers at infinity ward no what they are. and on the topic of it possibly being an Enforcer model. All Nighthawks have Novak Sights besides the Dominator. and the Grips are easily replacable. so it could be any model from the GRP to the Enforcer to the Talon. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:14, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

== Desert Eagles hammer down? ==

Isn't the Desert Eagles hammer incorrectly down?

Yes but so is the 1911's, and the rest once they've been fired. In the Modern Warfare universe all guns are double action only I guess. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

== M4 In-Game For Airsofters (Or Real Steel Guys Too I Guess) ==

As with I'm sure a number of other people on this site, I airsoft. =D I've been working on a Captain Price kit for a little while, who, as you know, uses an M4 SOPMOD/Grenadier. The reason he uses both is because they're the same gun with and without the suppressor, for the sneaky and not sneaky parts. (And different optics, but his gun is probably supposed to have the same optics the whole time, I'd bet IW didn't want to make a different gun just for him, as most people wouldn't notice.) Because finding EVERYTHING to put together his M4 was a big pain, I'm going to put a list of parts here for anyone wanting to make the M4 and its versions in-game. This would also work for a real one too I would think, at least mostly. This is assuming the base gun is a normal, generic M4A1.

M4A1 "multiplayer":
*16" HBAR (no grooves) barrel
*Old style stock
*RAS
*Vertical foregrip
(Please note this one can't be made using an electric airsoft M4, well, it can, but there'll be nowhere to put a battery. You will need a gas airsoft one or a real steel one.)

M4A1 "normal":
*16" HBAR (no grooves) barrel
*Old style stock
*RAS
*Vertical foregrip
*PEQ-2 (on the front left)
*Tasco red dot scope
*The smallest gas block you can find

M4A1 Suppressed:
*Same as the M4A1 "normal" except with a suppressor (go figure)

M4A1 Grenadier:
*16" HBAR (no grooves) barrel
*Old style stock
*RAS
*M203 (9" rail mounted version)
*M203 leaf sight (on the front top)
*PEQ-2 (on the front left)
*EOTech 552 holosight
*The smallest gas block you can find

M4A1 SOPMOD:
*Same as the M4 Grenadier except with a suppressor, and a Tasco QP22 reflex sight replacing the EOTech 552

For Captain Price's M4 I'm combining the Grenadier and SOPMOD by having a suppressor and an EOTech 552, seems like the easiest way to solve the problem.

I hope this list helps whoever needs it. :)
[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Medal of Honor (2010)

2010-07-07T00:50:49Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* weapon balance */

==beta release date?==

When will 360 beta be out? I keep hearing within a week but have seen no announcements by the company.
:http://twitter.com/medalofhonor
:http://twitter.com/pottan

==weapon balance==

i just saw the 12 round beretta mentioned i think they did that for balance reasons. Another game too focused on fairness. God forbid you unlock a gun later on that just owns.

-k9870

Yeah its kind of annoying when its that balanced, at least you could pretend its the .40, but I wouldn't even know what to do with the Grach, its named the Tariq (which is something else) and has 12 rounds too, when its supposed to have 17. Wait, couldn't they both just have been 16 to be in between? If I WAS going to make an overly balanced system like this, I'd try to make it close, why take them both down to 12? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:38, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
::Pretend it's the .40 too

Haha too bad there isn't one... WAIT! If you really want to stretch it you could pretend its the compact MP-448, 12 rounds of 9x18mm lol :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I hate when the do something like "the m4 has 20 power and 30 fire rate, the AK has 30 power and 20 fire rate, so there balanced. Then they go weapon x is more accurate than weapon y since its weaker and needs an advantage. I wish when you leveled up you had guns with good advantages that just own.

-k9870

I want a game that keeps the round in the chamber, keeps track of your extra mags (not the one big number bullshit), all the functions to be right, none of the guns to be set in a firing mode they're not in, the ability to switch modes to whatever that weapon has, the correct attachments (no AKs with ACOGs, or M14s and G3s with M203s), the correct animations for reloads, correct fire rates, correct mag capacities, correct zooms on scopes and no zoom on reflex sights/irons sights, its not really too much to ask I don't think. The only thing that would be arguable would be damage stuff does, but for the MOST part if you used the calibre measurement as the damage it would work (i.e. 5.56mm does about 22 damage, 7.62mm does 30, .50 does 50) it's not perfect but I at least want the guns with the same calibres to do the same damage... Rant done. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:38, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:There is a game for you, it's called ArmA. Mainstream arcadey FPS won't have all these features. But I agree at least counting bullet up the pipe would be nice touch. That always bugged me too. I have no idea why CoD games still doesn't have this. Anyway, ACOG (or any other weaver optic) on AK is not a problem via special mount. 203 on G3 and M14 is possible too.

Oh believe me, I wouldn't need ALL that, I still play the mainstream FPSs, it would just be nice, I just kept going with the list ;) And I do know you can technically put an ACOG on an AK or a 203 on the M14 or G3, but it would be nice to see the things that are supposed to be there... there, like the HK79. The attachments thing certainly wouldn't be as important to me as the round in the chamber, and I don't think guns of the same calibre having the same damage would be too much, its not that would take any extra effort... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:Same caliber doesn't always do same damage when shot from different barrels. M16 and M4 is a good example. In case with M16 bullet tumble and fragment thus making more damage, but when the same ammo shot from M4 it does not.

I knew that but didn't want to make my posts too long ;)That's fair, I meant more the stuff that doesn't make sense, like a 12 gauge that does more damage than another 12 gauge because it's pump action vs semi-auto, or like in Modern Warfare 2, which is the game I'm mostly complaning about, the F2000 has a 15.7" barrel and does 30 damage, while the TAR-21 has an 18.1" does 40, I know the idea of damage as a numerical system like this isn't realistic in a lot of ways, but it's the best anyone has been able to come up with so far, and I wouldn't think 2.4 inches of barrel would make that much of a difference. Put it this way, out of the 9 assault rifles in that game there are only 3 different damages, the 30, 40, and 55, keep in mind that the calibres here are 5.56, 7.62, and 7.62 NATO: the M4, ACR, and F2000 do 30, the FAMAS, SCAR, TAR-21, M16A4, and AK-47 do the same (lol what?) at 40, and the FAL does a whopping 55 (because its semi). But the single worst is the UMP and Super V, both .45s with a comparible barrel length, the UMP does 40 (again) and the the Super V does... 25. I know there should be differences but this makes NO SENSE. Sorry, I know this is the Medal Of Honor page, but everyone here seems smarter... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:34, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not a simulator. They needed to differentiate gun's performance. Besides, most people playing it doesn't know shit which caliber it shoots. So probably it's better to just get over it. Try playing hardcore mode and weapon damage won't bother you so much.

I know :) it doesn't really matter too much, it would just be nice, but I'm not expecting it though lol [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:40, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

seriously, no 1911 very disapointing. it might be outdated but Special Forces still use them. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:11, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Who said there won't be a 1911 in the final game? This isn't the final game. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:45, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
i dont know. i just figured since its not on the page already they wouldnt have it. but i hope they do. its a great gun and is used by Spec Ops. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:46, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
i think that all the comparisons come from MW2 because it has an overwhelming amount of flaws. for example- what has been previously stated. and does anyone else find it peculiar that all assault rifles lose the front sight when optics are attached? knowone would do that its stupid. what if there was a long battle and you ran out of battery on a dime, nope your dead now. and i kind of agree with the lack of a back sight because it takes away the point of the reflex being quick if you have to line 3 things to a target instead of the 1-2 or a normal rifle.

==First Part==

This game looks very promising in terms of realism and graphics compared to the other games. I'm excited to see that the game developers are working with REAL special forces operators. The game comes out in Fall 2010. CAN'T FREAKIN WAIT!!!!!!- ArmoredMason619

I've always had a soft spot with this series. I really hope they knock it out of the park with this one.

I'm guessing the guy on the front cover is a Green Beret?-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

:For some reason I though the guy on the front page was a PMC --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Na he is a Green Beret. That's the way they look when they are in a combat zone. They have to grow out a beard and dress like the civilians/insurgents in that particular area.-ArmoredMason619

A World War II shooter series is switching to a modern setting? It'll never work.
:Your kidding right...and sign your posts --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The graphics appear to be on par with ''[[America's Army 3]]'', though hopefully it'll have less problems and a better weapon selection. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The trailer had what looked like an [[FN Minimi#M249-E1 / M249-E2 / M249 Paratrooper SAW|M249 SAW]] variant fitted with an EOTech red dot sight, but I only saw it for a second looking down the sights in first-person mode so couldn't determine wether it was a standard SAW or specialized version like the Paratrooper or [[FN Minimi#FN Minimi SPW|SPW]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I added a screen of the M4A1 and the Minimi/SAw possibilty. --[[User:TheCrazyGunNut|TheCrazyGunNut]]

Ah, cheap EA.. This is so obvious that they are doing this because of MW success. Won't buy just because of this fact.

Or because WWII has been overdone and they wanted to do something else. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

20th century saw so many wars. They could pick any one. The most suitable would be Vietnam war. I can't recall many good games about this conflict. It could be about SF also.

How about Vietcong? http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Vietcong In my personal oppinion the best PC game from Vietnam conflict up to date. I know that the Vietcong wasn't perfect but other games usually wasted their potential (e.g. Conflict Vietnam, Men of Valor) ended as a low quality budget (first Shellshock 67 and many others) or as some crazy VC/NVA-zombie kill fest (recent Shellshock 2).

I agree that there were many other "interesting" conflicts or suitable theathers for FPS games but "supply is influenced by demand". The "anti-terrorist" theme is actual and developers don't want to risk introducing a game that "nobody would want to play". Remember it's all about the money. Actually it's quite strange that if I look backwards I can't recall any good or partially realistic FPS from Afganistan or Iraq theatre - Modern Warefare, appart from other parts of the story, was set partialy in the Middle East but in some fictisious country (and that *** spoliler *** nuking of the whole Marine division *** spoiler *** was complete bullshit) and Modern Warefare 2 was about hunting down some crazy Russian ultranationalists (and *** spoiler *** one rouge American general *** spoiler *** that was bullshit as well). No offence to Call of Duty but I personally hope that Medal of Honor would not turn into such killfest of stupid AI NPC duchebags thrown in absolutely ridiculous waves into a single coridor where you have to kill more than 70 opponents on less than 100 square feet ...

:::Wow, so doing something original is bullshit? I mean, come on; I'd rather shoot 70 guys in a single cooridor than simply go from cave to cave, shooting the occasional militant, or riding about in my vehicle until I hit a bomb and get ambushed. Generic examples I know, but put simply, fighting a military-trained, fully-equipped soldier is a lot more exciting than some fanatical militant using 30-year-old weapons. Heck, even America's Army created a fictional enemy for the US Army to fight.

Judging by what I'm seeing in the trailer this is going to be far from any CoD style of modern warfare. This shit looks seriously hardcore in terms of trying to replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay. I guess only time will tell. Hopefully by then they fix the damn gas block thing. Fuck that pisses me off. These guys are working with tier 1 operators but they don't want to model the damn gun correctly. Anybody with even slight knowledge of an AR-15 platform would notice this error. It's a big frickin error.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:::"replicate actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay"? So coalition forces playing in a sandbox there? And duh, there is a gas-block, it's just too low-profile and you cannot see it.

::::Even if the gas block isn't there, does it really matter? The average gamer probably doesn't know, or care, what a gas block is, let alone whether it's actually there or not; and the Medal of Honor series goes for what looks cool (such as the Flak Tower in Airborne), not what's realistic.

Don't change the intent of my words. Let me rephrase :::"replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan fighting into gameplay." There happy? As well the use of a low profile gas block seems like an excuse. What are the chances that every M4 has a low profile gas block when there are attached optics?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:::Why not? It's a game about hi-speed low-drag tear1 omfgd3ltasealz special forces operators.
::::That's ''Tier'' 1. And even a low-profile gas block would still be visible on the barrel where the standard FSP would be due to the length of the gas tube. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

North American release date is October 12, 2010. Europe is October 15.-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFpgNJZ8Fhc&playnext_from=TL&videos=vd-xeQ7FyHw
^ At 0:56, 1:04, 1:16 you can see a stock, body, and barrel of a M14 EBR.
At O:43 you can see what I believe to be some kind of M240.*EDIT: Mk 46 Mod 0*
All along the trailer are M4s with optics and different accessories. -DeltaOp
:Was the Mark 14 EBR even fielded yet in 2002? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

- Nope. EBR was designed around that date - 2001/2002 but first units (mostly from Navy Seals) were issued this rifle later on in 2004. So it's probably another game inaccuracy.

Who said it was set in 2002? And the gas block isn't removed for optics like in Call Of Duty, it's removed when the M203's flip up sight is on top, I'm thinking it's not to block that, not that I think it would block it, but that's when it's not there, not because of optics. EDIT: Wow my bad, it is set then, and I was thinking the M203 was an attachment, but its fixed on like in BFBC2, wow, I feel dumb lol. EDIT #2: I figured it out, the M16 removes the front sight for optics, but the M4 doesn't. Odd. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

== Green Beret on cover ==
It's ''Cowboy''! [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/12/03/news-bearded-guy-on-medal-of-honor-cover-is-real.aspx] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:Lmao. Oh i didnt think of that one. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Anyone think its kinda odd that the Rangers seem to be doing alot of the work. along with the Green Beret. Wouldnt Delta Force/Navy SEALs be doing most of the stuff?

1st SFOD-D and Navy SEALs are, let's say, "equal" to Special Forces concerning their roles within US SOCOM. They are highly trained operators used for specific and "delicate" stuff. Rangers are more like muscless used for more "dirty" tasks. In reality, you would rather send a Special Forces A-Team to do cool things like - to recon the enemy airfield, to pin point potential high-value targets, to set observation post for calling CAS missions or to set sniping posts with 18B class operators with sniper rifles; while few C-130s packed with Ranger chalks would wait to "go-order" so they can jump in, do all the hard work and blow the enemy to pieces. Special Forces (Delta/SEALs etc.) are too valuable for such things. Even though, they are capable of kicking some serious ass, it is not practical to "mass" several A- or SEAL teams for a task, which bunch of Ranger squads could do better.[Ragnar]

okay thats true, but i just dont see why there wouldnt be SOME Operators or SEALs, think about this. Rangers are like the backbone of USSOCOM, Green Berets, are trained in Reconaissance, but if u want to kick some serious Taliban ass, u send in Operators or SEALs, because they excel at kickin' the door down, and opening up some whoop-ass. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:40, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
:Who is the "Operators"?
::Delta "Operators". [[User:Pz.Abt.100|Pz.Abt.100]] 22:40, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

but really, i no Delta is more of a mission specific unit, but seriously what is America's best military asset? 1stSFOD-D. why? because they have close to 500 Operators, the best in the world. and officially they dont exist. political bull shit in the way, no problemo. they dont exist. its denieble if you send them in.[[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 19:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

== Guns revealed in multi-player demo at E3 ==
(These are just what I could spot while watching it on TV)
*Beretta 92FS/M9 (not a 92SB like in CoD, had the squared-off trigger guard)
*Pump-action shotgun I couldn't identify (they only showed it from the back)
*Bolt-action sniper rifle, presumably a Remington M24 (only saw it from the back and right side as the player was working the bolt)
*Not actually a new gun, but the M4A1 also had a low-profile front BUIS mounted on the RIS is some scenes
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

If you check the kill feed immediately after the kill with the sniper rifle, the identifies the unknown rifle as a Sako M57. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I found some footage: http://videos.pcgames.de/v/MuuqC3iXMpw/Medal-of-Honor/Multiplayer-Gameplay-E3-2010/ (the shotgun is a TOZ-194)

More confirmed weapons. I recommend you keep your eye to the left of the screen, below the radar, to see some weapons we have missed while watching the video.

RPK-Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

RPG 7-In-game footage

AK-47-Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

AT-4 (I think by the ingame footage)

M9- From ingame footage

SVD Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M249 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

TT-30 Seen ingame

MP7A1 This one was very hard to see (Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M-21 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

870MCS Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M60 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

Knife: I need a confirmation but in the "Leave a Message" trailer one of the Rangers seems to be equipped with a Coyote Brown Gerber LMF II knife.

== List ==
I'm gonna put all the ones I've seen down, so we've got one big list (this is all from the 11 minute long multiplayer video, both seen on screen and on the killfeed) If the names are given (killfeed ones) I'm writing them exactly as they are named in game. For the ones that aren't named I'll name them what they are.

M16

M203

AK-47

GP-30

M249

PKM

M4

AKS-74u

870MCS

TOZ-194

AT4

RPG-7

M21

SVD (NOTE: Has a straight .308 magazine)

M24

SV-98

M9

MP-443 (NOTE: Appears as the Tariq, which I thought that was an Iraqi-made Beretta clone...)

(From here down is not in the Beta)

RPK

MP7A1

M240

M60

M14 EBR (Seen in other videos. It is NOT the same as the M21 like it is in certain other games, the M21 has a normal M21 type body and stock, BOTH are in this.) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==Spliting into sections ==
Wont it make sence to make two sections ? One with MP´s guns and one with SP´s guns. I think it will - because they dont use same engine, so guns can be different.

Why would the single player and multiplayer use different engines? That makes no sense. It would make the modelers have to model everything twice, and take up twice as much space on disc. No. We're not going to do that.-protoAuthor 19:35, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

: It '''USES''' different engines. MP is running on frostbite, and SP is running on UT3 one.

Not sure if i'm doing this right, but yes it uses different engines, and the modelers do not have to model everything twice, they can easily import it from a common format to both engine's formats, PSK Mesh (or something) for UT3, and a new version of bundledmesh contained in RES files for frostbite. You don't have to model it twice, you just export within both engines.

:It still makes no sense to split up the page. But thank you for enlightening me to something that still makes no sense to me. Why would they do that?-protoAuthor 16:54, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The only reason i could possibly see would be to make a comparable multiplayer experience for BFBC2 players, And they might have already started building singleplayer on the unreal engine, which most if not all of the previous MoH games used. In my opinion, it shouldn't be split either, means some firearms would be listed twice. btw this isn't the original poster, this is the guy from the post before proto's last.

: Ok than. It doesnt have to be split, but there should be atlest writed to each screenshot " This is from Multiplayer/ Singleplayer". And just one little '''BTW''': They modelled it twice. As you can see, M4 or MK46 '''''HAVE''''' different models.

That's because the M4 and Mk. 46 are different guns, silly.-protoAuthor 04:00, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Heh. I mean that M4 looks different in SP and MP. Same with Mk.46

They do look different but I think its just because one sets from that first trailer a while ago, game's graphics always get better as develpment keeps going, but you might be right to, I was just throwing that out there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:00, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== LMG Special Weapons ==

In the sniper class you get C4, in the special ops class you get a rocket, and with an assault rifle in the rifleman class you get a launcher... so what do you get if you equip an LMG? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:56, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

more ammo?

:Absolutely nothing. You have 2 spare 150 round mags (in the beta, with the PK).
::You have self-destruct vest.

Is that a joke or can you actually be a suicide bomber, cause what would the American gunners get? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:14, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:C4

It is then? Okay cool, I figured but I wasn't sure, I can't check because the 360 beta was delayed :( [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:37, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
== Best of 3 shooters? ==

I have to say, out of the 3 FPS games that will be coming out in Q4 (this one, Spec Ops: The Line, and CoD: Black Ops), I am looking forward to Medal of Honor the most. From what I've seen about the other two, they look like they're filled with sensationalist b.s. . -Any Mouse

:MoH looks WAY to much like Bad Company 2, and I think it's EAs fault. They want to capitalize on the modern warfare craze so much, they're using another popular series to boost sales. To be honest, MOH looks like BC2 with Taliban, and I'll most likely not be getting it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Medal of honor is not going to be way too much like BC2 because the gameplay will be much more tactical and realistic. Like real modern warfare.

:Says you man. Face it, it's going to be bought by the same type of people who buy MW2 and BC2, mostly idiot kids ranging from 10 to 15 who just wanna get four man sprays and noob tubes across the map. This is a console FPS that can be bought by anyone, and has nothing to offer that will make it overly unique, so it will end up like MW2 and BC2, noob weapons will arise, and it will just be another chaotic FPS. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:You got a point there.

Spec Ops: the Line is a third person shooter, not an FPS.

Sorry, my bad. I thought it was one of those deals like Fallout 3 where you could switch from first-to-third-person and back -Any Mouse

== Animations ==

I know this is off-topic, but am I the only one bothered by the way your character moves? If a gun is bouncing around in your hands while you move like that, there's gotta be something wrong...

I think that only happens in multiplayer due to it being a different engine, but yeah it is weird

== Full Auto M16A4 ==

Wouldn't having an M16A4 on full auto make it a C7A1? I know there are a few other differences, but they're all internal, it's the only difference visible in some way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:23, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

:Well I would have said M16A3, but those didn't have rails. So yes, the only M16 variant that has an RIS system and goes full-auto is the C7A2, so indeed this new game uses a C7. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::M16A4 with FA lower - what could be easier

:Personally, I wouldn't call "full-auto" M16A4 a C7A2. C7A2 has some, more or less significant, differences - e.g. ambidextrous fire selector or retractable stock. Plus Canadian military did not use full length RIS systems (e.g. like King Arms M5 on M16A4) on their C7s. Full-auto M16A4 is just another game-developer inaccuracy created by lack of knowledge about firearms. Unfortunately, it's a trend in nowadays mainstream FPS like Modern Warfare or Battlefield Bad Company. Game developers just give a sh*t about this stuff. 13-year-old kids screaming and b*tching in multiplayer would not notice the difference. [Ragnar]
:: 3-burst is for nubs that can't cut it by themselves.

::The M5 RAS on the M16A4 is made by KAC, not King Arms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:33, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Of course I realize that having it full auto is just a screw up, like in most movies, and I'm not talking about the C7A2, with the green furniture and ambi controls, I meant the C7A1, which is the same in terms of appearance. Here's one without an ELCAN, because I know someone will complain about that:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/7/76/20080716042205!C7A1_with_IronSights.JPG
Oh and you can put the KAC Rails on any M16-length AR, so that's not really an issue, some of the C7A1s (like the one pictured) had them put on before the C7A2 was introduced with the TRIAD. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:22, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:It could be a C7, but really, it's just EA's lack of knowledge about weapons, cause full auto is what every assault rifle shoots, right? Man, games like Call of Duty 4 tried their best to keep weapons accurate, now it's all about tacticool weapons that fire full auto and have cool sights and nice finishes. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah I know, and guns don't need to be re-chambered after they run empty too :p in this and Bad Company 2, it's kind of distracting when I'm playing to be honest, well, I've gotten used to it a little more by now. Okay what I don't get is why can't it be listed as a C7A1? Or at least mentioned... If there was an gun listed as an M4 (not A1) and it was firing full auto you guys would have no problem saying it's actually an M4A1, or an AK-47 is really an AKM, so why can't the M16 really be a C7? I realize it's just a mistake on the developer's part, but that doesn't stop us pointing out the other ones... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:56, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think it would be a good idea if we mentioned that in reality, this would class it as a C7A1 etc. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 18:26, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Has there even ever been any instances of a burst-firing M4 used in any movie or video game? At any rate, I think just noting that it's inaccurately portrayed as full auto is enough. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:43, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well if you talk to the Green Beret on Deadliest Warrior, he'll tell you the M4 can go burst AND full auto! But yeah, just classify the M16 in MOH as a C7A1, cause in reality that's what it is. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/1009334.page
Best 5 minutes of my life reading this! [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:01, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

''Well if you talk to the Green Beret on Deadliest Warrior, he'll tell you the M4 can go burst AND full auto!'' - Believe it or not, 4-position selectors for AR-15 type rifles exist. There should be a link to the patent in the Season 2 discussion. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 22:44, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

The so-called "Green Berets" on that show were idiot actors who didn't do their research, so I don't really give a crap about what they say. The M4A1 as used by the US military is safe/semi/auto, no burst. 4-pos selectors may exist, but the US military does not use them. That also wasn't an answer my question. ''Have there ever been any instances of a burst-firing M4 used in any movie or video game?'' By "burst-firing M4", I mean the M4 with M16A2/A4 trigger group as issued en mass to regular US Army troops. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I only know of two games that have M4s with the A2/A4 trigger group. There's one of the Call of Duty Modern Warfare games for the Nintendo DS, and then there's the Battlefield 2 mod [[Project Reality]], where it features both burst-firing M4s for the Americans and full-auto M4A1s for the Israelis.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:58, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Thank you, that ''did'' answer my question. Also, lol @the thread on EA Forums. That was a pretty entertaining read. Though I quite disagree with the guy who claims you can't know anything about an M16 or other firearm without having handled or used one. I've never handled an M16, but I still know the difference between an A1, A2, A3, and A4. Good thing I quit bothering with that place within the first few days I registered, otherwise I'd probably be ankle-deep in that ****storm. XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:52, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

== Hi-Def MP videos ==

You guys might want to check this out: On YouTube, there's someone by the name of deluxe345 who has Hi-Definition videos from the Medal of Honor multiplayer (there are 3 or 4). Also, in one of these videos, I spotted an M224 mortar in the killfeed.

Talk:Medal of Honor (2010)

2010-07-07T00:46:37Z

Dirtdiver6421: /* weapon balance */

==beta release date?==

When will 360 beta be out? I keep hearing within a week but have seen no announcements by the company.
:http://twitter.com/medalofhonor
:http://twitter.com/pottan

==weapon balance==

i just saw the 12 round beretta mentioned i think they did that for balance reasons. Another game too focused on fairness. God forbid you unlock a gun later on that just owns.

-k9870

Yeah its kind of annoying when its that balanced, at least you could pretend its the .40, but I wouldn't even know what to do with the Grach, its named the Tariq (which is something else) and has 12 rounds too, when its supposed to have 17. Wait, couldn't they both just have been 16 to be in between? If I WAS going to make an overly balanced system like this, I'd try to make it close, why take them both down to 12? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:38, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
::Pretend it's the .40 too

Haha too bad there isn't one... WAIT! If you really want to stretch it you could pretend its the compact MP-448, 12 rounds of 9x18mm lol :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I hate when the do something like "the m4 has 20 power and 30 fire rate, the AK has 30 power and 20 fire rate, so there balanced. Then they go weapon x is more accurate than weapon y since its weaker and needs an advantage. I wish when you leveled up you had guns with good advantages that just own.

-k9870

I want a game that keeps the round in the chamber, keeps track of your extra mags (not the one big number bullshit), all the functions to be right, none of the guns to be set in a firing mode they're not in, the ability to switch modes to whatever that weapon has, the correct attachments (no AKs with ACOGs, or M14s and G3s with M203s), the correct animations for reloads, correct fire rates, correct mag capacities, correct zooms on scopes and no zoom on reflex sights/irons sights, its not really too much to ask I don't think. The only thing that would be arguable would be damage stuff does, but for the MOST part if you used the calibre measurement as the damage it would work (i.e. 5.56mm does about 22 damage, 7.62mm does 30, .50 does 50) it's not perfect but I at least want the guns with the same calibres to do the same damage... Rant done. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:38, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:There is a game for you, it's called ArmA. Mainstream arcadey FPS won't have all these features. But I agree at least counting bullet up the pipe would be nice touch. That always bugged me too. I have no idea why CoD games still doesn't have this. Anyway, ACOG (or any other weaver optic) on AK is not a problem via special mount. 203 on G3 and M14 is possible too.

Oh believe me, I wouldn't need ALL that, I still play the mainstream FPSs, it would just be nice, I just kept going with the list ;) And I do know you can technically put an ACOG on an AK or a 203 on the M14 or G3, but it would be nice to see the things that are supposed to be there... there, like the HK79. The attachments thing certainly wouldn't be as important to me as the round in the chamber, and I don't think guns of the same calibre having the same damage would be too much, its not that would take any extra effort... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:Same caliber doesn't always do same damage when shot from different barrels. M16 and M4 is a good example. In case with M16 bullet tumble and fragment thus making more damage, but when the same ammo shot from M4 it does not.

I knew that but didn't want to make my posts too long ;)That's fair, I meant more the stuff that doesn't make sense, like a 12 gauge that does more damage than another 12 gauge because it's pump action vs semi-auto, or like in Modern Warfare 2, which is the game I'm mostly complaning about, the F2000 has a 15.7" barrel and does 30 damage, while the TAR-21 has an 18.1" does 40, I know the idea of damage as a numerical system like this isn't realistic in a lot of ways, but it's the best anyone has been able to come up with so far, and I wouldn't think 2.4 inches of barrel would make that much of a difference. Put it this way, out of the 9 assault rifles in that game there are only 3 different damages, the 30, 40, and 55, keep in mind that the calibres here are 5.56, 7.62, and 7.62 NATO: the M4, ACR, and F2000 do 30, the FAMAS, SCAR, TAR-21, M16A4, and AK-47 do the same (lol what?) at 40, and the FAL does a whopping 55 (because its semi). But the single worst is the UMP and Super V, both .45s with a comparible barrel length, the UMP does 40 (again) and the the Super V does... 25. I know there should be differences but this makes NO SENSE. Sorry, I know this is the Medal Of Honor page, but everyone here seems smarter... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:34, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not a simulator. They needed to differentiate gun's performance. Besides, most people playing it doesn't know shit which caliber it shoots. So probably it's better to just get over it. Try playing hardcore mode and weapon damage won't bother you so much.

I know :) it doesn't really matter too much, it would just be nice, but I'm not expecting it though lol [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:40, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

seriously, no 1911 very disapointing. it might be outdated but Special Forces still use them. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:11, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Who said there won't be a 1911 in the final game? This isn't the final game. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:45, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
i dont know. i just figured since its not on the page already they wouldnt have it. but i hope they do. its a great gun and is used by Spec Ops. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:46, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==First Part==

This game looks very promising in terms of realism and graphics compared to the other games. I'm excited to see that the game developers are working with REAL special forces operators. The game comes out in Fall 2010. CAN'T FREAKIN WAIT!!!!!!- ArmoredMason619

I've always had a soft spot with this series. I really hope they knock it out of the park with this one.

I'm guessing the guy on the front cover is a Green Beret?-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

:For some reason I though the guy on the front page was a PMC --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Na he is a Green Beret. That's the way they look when they are in a combat zone. They have to grow out a beard and dress like the civilians/insurgents in that particular area.-ArmoredMason619

A World War II shooter series is switching to a modern setting? It'll never work.
:Your kidding right...and sign your posts --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The graphics appear to be on par with ''[[America's Army 3]]'', though hopefully it'll have less problems and a better weapon selection. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The trailer had what looked like an [[FN Minimi#M249-E1 / M249-E2 / M249 Paratrooper SAW|M249 SAW]] variant fitted with an EOTech red dot sight, but I only saw it for a second looking down the sights in first-person mode so couldn't determine wether it was a standard SAW or specialized version like the Paratrooper or [[FN Minimi#FN Minimi SPW|SPW]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I added a screen of the M4A1 and the Minimi/SAw possibilty. --[[User:TheCrazyGunNut|TheCrazyGunNut]]

Ah, cheap EA.. This is so obvious that they are doing this because of MW success. Won't buy just because of this fact.

Or because WWII has been overdone and they wanted to do something else. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

20th century saw so many wars. They could pick any one. The most suitable would be Vietnam war. I can't recall many good games about this conflict. It could be about SF also.

How about Vietcong? http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Vietcong In my personal oppinion the best PC game from Vietnam conflict up to date. I know that the Vietcong wasn't perfect but other games usually wasted their potential (e.g. Conflict Vietnam, Men of Valor) ended as a low quality budget (first Shellshock 67 and many others) or as some crazy VC/NVA-zombie kill fest (recent Shellshock 2).

I agree that there were many other "interesting" conflicts or suitable theathers for FPS games but "supply is influenced by demand". The "anti-terrorist" theme is actual and developers don't want to risk introducing a game that "nobody would want to play". Remember it's all about the money. Actually it's quite strange that if I look backwards I can't recall any good or partially realistic FPS from Afganistan or Iraq theatre - Modern Warefare, appart from other parts of the story, was set partialy in the Middle East but in some fictisious country (and that *** spoliler *** nuking of the whole Marine division *** spoiler *** was complete bullshit) and Modern Warefare 2 was about hunting down some crazy Russian ultranationalists (and *** spoiler *** one rouge American general *** spoiler *** that was bullshit as well). No offence to Call of Duty but I personally hope that Medal of Honor would not turn into such killfest of stupid AI NPC duchebags thrown in absolutely ridiculous waves into a single coridor where you have to kill more than 70 opponents on less than 100 square feet ...

:::Wow, so doing something original is bullshit? I mean, come on; I'd rather shoot 70 guys in a single cooridor than simply go from cave to cave, shooting the occasional militant, or riding about in my vehicle until I hit a bomb and get ambushed. Generic examples I know, but put simply, fighting a military-trained, fully-equipped soldier is a lot more exciting than some fanatical militant using 30-year-old weapons. Heck, even America's Army created a fictional enemy for the US Army to fight.

Judging by what I'm seeing in the trailer this is going to be far from any CoD style of modern warfare. This shit looks seriously hardcore in terms of trying to replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay. I guess only time will tell. Hopefully by then they fix the damn gas block thing. Fuck that pisses me off. These guys are working with tier 1 operators but they don't want to model the damn gun correctly. Anybody with even slight knowledge of an AR-15 platform would notice this error. It's a big frickin error.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:::"replicate actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay"? So coalition forces playing in a sandbox there? And duh, there is a gas-block, it's just too low-profile and you cannot see it.

::::Even if the gas block isn't there, does it really matter? The average gamer probably doesn't know, or care, what a gas block is, let alone whether it's actually there or not; and the Medal of Honor series goes for what looks cool (such as the Flak Tower in Airborne), not what's realistic.

Don't change the intent of my words. Let me rephrase :::"replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan fighting into gameplay." There happy? As well the use of a low profile gas block seems like an excuse. What are the chances that every M4 has a low profile gas block when there are attached optics?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:::Why not? It's a game about hi-speed low-drag tear1 omfgd3ltasealz special forces operators.
::::That's ''Tier'' 1. And even a low-profile gas block would still be visible on the barrel where the standard FSP would be due to the length of the gas tube. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

North American release date is October 12, 2010. Europe is October 15.-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFpgNJZ8Fhc&playnext_from=TL&videos=vd-xeQ7FyHw
^ At 0:56, 1:04, 1:16 you can see a stock, body, and barrel of a M14 EBR.
At O:43 you can see what I believe to be some kind of M240.*EDIT: Mk 46 Mod 0*
All along the trailer are M4s with optics and different accessories. -DeltaOp
:Was the Mark 14 EBR even fielded yet in 2002? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

- Nope. EBR was designed around that date - 2001/2002 but first units (mostly from Navy Seals) were issued this rifle later on in 2004. So it's probably another game inaccuracy.

Who said it was set in 2002? And the gas block isn't removed for optics like in Call Of Duty, it's removed when the M203's flip up sight is on top, I'm thinking it's not to block that, not that I think it would block it, but that's when it's not there, not because of optics. EDIT: Wow my bad, it is set then, and I was thinking the M203 was an attachment, but its fixed on like in BFBC2, wow, I feel dumb lol. EDIT #2: I figured it out, the M16 removes the front sight for optics, but the M4 doesn't. Odd. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

== Green Beret on cover ==
It's ''Cowboy''! [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/12/03/news-bearded-guy-on-medal-of-honor-cover-is-real.aspx] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:Lmao. Oh i didnt think of that one. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Anyone think its kinda odd that the Rangers seem to be doing alot of the work. along with the Green Beret. Wouldnt Delta Force/Navy SEALs be doing most of the stuff?

1st SFOD-D and Navy SEALs are, let's say, "equal" to Special Forces concerning their roles within US SOCOM. They are highly trained operators used for specific and "delicate" stuff. Rangers are more like muscless used for more "dirty" tasks. In reality, you would rather send a Special Forces A-Team to do cool things like - to recon the enemy airfield, to pin point potential high-value targets, to set observation post for calling CAS missions or to set sniping posts with 18B class operators with sniper rifles; while few C-130s packed with Ranger chalks would wait to "go-order" so they can jump in, do all the hard work and blow the enemy to pieces. Special Forces (Delta/SEALs etc.) are too valuable for such things. Even though, they are capable of kicking some serious ass, it is not practical to "mass" several A- or SEAL teams for a task, which bunch of Ranger squads could do better.[Ragnar]

okay thats true, but i just dont see why there wouldnt be SOME Operators or SEALs, think about this. Rangers are like the backbone of USSOCOM, Green Berets, are trained in Reconaissance, but if u want to kick some serious Taliban ass, u send in Operators or SEALs, because they excel at kickin' the door down, and opening up some whoop-ass. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:40, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
:Who is the "Operators"?
::Delta "Operators". [[User:Pz.Abt.100|Pz.Abt.100]] 22:40, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

but really, i no Delta is more of a mission specific unit, but seriously what is America's best military asset? 1stSFOD-D. why? because they have close to 500 Operators, the best in the world. and officially they dont exist. political bull shit in the way, no problemo. they dont exist. its denieble if you send them in.[[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 19:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

== Guns revealed in multi-player demo at E3 ==
(These are just what I could spot while watching it on TV)
*Beretta 92FS/M9 (not a 92SB like in CoD, had the squared-off trigger guard)
*Pump-action shotgun I couldn't identify (they only showed it from the back)
*Bolt-action sniper rifle, presumably a Remington M24 (only saw it from the back and right side as the player was working the bolt)
*Not actually a new gun, but the M4A1 also had a low-profile front BUIS mounted on the RIS is some scenes
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

If you check the kill feed immediately after the kill with the sniper rifle, the identifies the unknown rifle as a Sako M57. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I found some footage: http://videos.pcgames.de/v/MuuqC3iXMpw/Medal-of-Honor/Multiplayer-Gameplay-E3-2010/ (the shotgun is a TOZ-194)

More confirmed weapons. I recommend you keep your eye to the left of the screen, below the radar, to see some weapons we have missed while watching the video.

RPK-Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

RPG 7-In-game footage

AK-47-Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

AT-4 (I think by the ingame footage)

M9- From ingame footage

SVD Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M249 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

TT-30 Seen ingame

MP7A1 This one was very hard to see (Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M-21 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

870MCS Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M60 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

Knife: I need a confirmation but in the "Leave a Message" trailer one of the Rangers seems to be equipped with a Coyote Brown Gerber LMF II knife.

== List ==
I'm gonna put all the ones I've seen down, so we've got one big list (this is all from the 11 minute long multiplayer video, both seen on screen and on the killfeed) If the names are given (killfeed ones) I'm writing them exactly as they are named in game. For the ones that aren't named I'll name them what they are.

M16

M203

AK-47

GP-30

M249

PKM

M4

AKS-74u

870MCS

TOZ-194

AT4

RPG-7

M21

SVD (NOTE: Has a straight .308 magazine)

M24

SV-98

M9

MP-443 (NOTE: Appears as the Tariq, which I thought that was an Iraqi-made Beretta clone...)

(From here down is not in the Beta)

RPK

MP7A1

M240

M60

M14 EBR (Seen in other videos. It is NOT the same as the M21 like it is in certain other games, the M21 has a normal M21 type body and stock, BOTH are in this.) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==Spliting into sections ==
Wont it make sence to make two sections ? One with MP´s guns and one with SP´s guns. I think it will - because they dont use same engine, so guns can be different.

Why would the single player and multiplayer use different engines? That makes no sense. It would make the modelers have to model everything twice, and take up twice as much space on disc. No. We're not going to do that.-protoAuthor 19:35, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

: It '''USES''' different engines. MP is running on frostbite, and SP is running on UT3 one.

Not sure if i'm doing this right, but yes it uses different engines, and the modelers do not have to model everything twice, they can easily import it from a common format to both engine's formats, PSK Mesh (or something) for UT3, and a new version of bundledmesh contained in RES files for frostbite. You don't have to model it twice, you just export within both engines.

:It still makes no sense to split up the page. But thank you for enlightening me to something that still makes no sense to me. Why would they do that?-protoAuthor 16:54, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The only reason i could possibly see would be to make a comparable multiplayer experience for BFBC2 players, And they might have already started building singleplayer on the unreal engine, which most if not all of the previous MoH games used. In my opinion, it shouldn't be split either, means some firearms would be listed twice. btw this isn't the original poster, this is the guy from the post before proto's last.

: Ok than. It doesnt have to be split, but there should be atlest writed to each screenshot " This is from Multiplayer/ Singleplayer". And just one little '''BTW''': They modelled it twice. As you can see, M4 or MK46 '''''HAVE''''' different models.

That's because the M4 and Mk. 46 are different guns, silly.-protoAuthor 04:00, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Heh. I mean that M4 looks different in SP and MP. Same with Mk.46

They do look different but I think its just because one sets from that first trailer a while ago, game's graphics always get better as develpment keeps going, but you might be right to, I was just throwing that out there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:00, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== LMG Special Weapons ==

In the sniper class you get C4, in the special ops class you get a rocket, and with an assault rifle in the rifleman class you get a launcher... so what do you get if you equip an LMG? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:56, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

more ammo?

:Absolutely nothing. You have 2 spare 150 round mags (in the beta, with the PK).
::You have self-destruct vest.

Is that a joke or can you actually be a suicide bomber, cause what would the American gunners get? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:14, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:C4

It is then? Okay cool, I figured but I wasn't sure, I can't check because the 360 beta was delayed :( [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:37, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
== Best of 3 shooters? ==

I have to say, out of the 3 FPS games that will be coming out in Q4 (this one, Spec Ops: The Line, and CoD: Black Ops), I am looking forward to Medal of Honor the most. From what I've seen about the other two, they look like they're filled with sensationalist b.s. . -Any Mouse

:MoH looks WAY to much like Bad Company 2, and I think it's EAs fault. They want to capitalize on the modern warfare craze so much, they're using another popular series to boost sales. To be honest, MOH looks like BC2 with Taliban, and I'll most likely not be getting it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Medal of honor is not going to be way too much like BC2 because the gameplay will be much more tactical and realistic. Like real modern warfare.

:Says you man. Face it, it's going to be bought by the same type of people who buy MW2 and BC2, mostly idiot kids ranging from 10 to 15 who just wanna get four man sprays and noob tubes across the map. This is a console FPS that can be bought by anyone, and has nothing to offer that will make it overly unique, so it will end up like MW2 and BC2, noob weapons will arise, and it will just be another chaotic FPS. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:You got a point there.

Spec Ops: the Line is a third person shooter, not an FPS.

Sorry, my bad. I thought it was one of those deals like Fallout 3 where you could switch from first-to-third-person and back -Any Mouse

== Animations ==

I know this is off-topic, but am I the only one bothered by the way your character moves? If a gun is bouncing around in your hands while you move like that, there's gotta be something wrong...

I think that only happens in multiplayer due to it being a different engine, but yeah it is weird

== Full Auto M16A4 ==

Wouldn't having an M16A4 on full auto make it a C7A1? I know there are a few other differences, but they're all internal, it's the only difference visible in some way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:23, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

:Well I would have said M16A3, but those didn't have rails. So yes, the only M16 variant that has an RIS system and goes full-auto is the C7A2, so indeed this new game uses a C7. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::M16A4 with FA lower - what could be easier

:Personally, I wouldn't call "full-auto" M16A4 a C7A2. C7A2 has some, more or less significant, differences - e.g. ambidextrous fire selector or retractable stock. Plus Canadian military did not use full length RIS systems (e.g. like King Arms M5 on M16A4) on their C7s. Full-auto M16A4 is just another game-developer inaccuracy created by lack of knowledge about firearms. Unfortunately, it's a trend in nowadays mainstream FPS like Modern Warfare or Battlefield Bad Company. Game developers just give a sh*t about this stuff. 13-year-old kids screaming and b*tching in multiplayer would not notice the difference. [Ragnar]
:: 3-burst is for nubs that can't cut it by themselves.

::The M5 RAS on the M16A4 is made by KAC, not King Arms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:33, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Of course I realize that having it full auto is just a screw up, like in most movies, and I'm not talking about the C7A2, with the green furniture and ambi controls, I meant the C7A1, which is the same in terms of appearance. Here's one without an ELCAN, because I know someone will complain about that:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/7/76/20080716042205!C7A1_with_IronSights.JPG
Oh and you can put the KAC Rails on any M16-length AR, so that's not really an issue, some of the C7A1s (like the one pictured) had them put on before the C7A2 was introduced with the TRIAD. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:22, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:It could be a C7, but really, it's just EA's lack of knowledge about weapons, cause full auto is what every assault rifle shoots, right? Man, games like Call of Duty 4 tried their best to keep weapons accurate, now it's all about tacticool weapons that fire full auto and have cool sights and nice finishes. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah I know, and guns don't need to be re-chambered after they run empty too :p in this and Bad Company 2, it's kind of distracting when I'm playing to be honest, well, I've gotten used to it a little more by now. Okay what I don't get is why can't it be listed as a C7A1? Or at least mentioned... If there was an gun listed as an M4 (not A1) and it was firing full auto you guys would have no problem saying it's actually an M4A1, or an AK-47 is really an AKM, so why can't the M16 really be a C7? I realize it's just a mistake on the developer's part, but that doesn't stop us pointing out the other ones... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:56, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think it would be a good idea if we mentioned that in reality, this would class it as a C7A1 etc. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 18:26, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Has there even ever been any instances of a burst-firing M4 used in any movie or video game? At any rate, I think just noting that it's inaccurately portrayed as full auto is enough. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:43, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well if you talk to the Green Beret on Deadliest Warrior, he'll tell you the M4 can go burst AND full auto! But yeah, just classify the M16 in MOH as a C7A1, cause in reality that's what it is. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/1009334.page
Best 5 minutes of my life reading this! [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:01, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

''Well if you talk to the Green Beret on Deadliest Warrior, he'll tell you the M4 can go burst AND full auto!'' - Believe it or not, 4-position selectors for AR-15 type rifles exist. There should be a link to the patent in the Season 2 discussion. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 22:44, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

The so-called "Green Berets" on that show were idiot actors who didn't do their research, so I don't really give a crap about what they say. The M4A1 as used by the US military is safe/semi/auto, no burst. 4-pos selectors may exist, but the US military does not use them. That also wasn't an answer my question. ''Have there ever been any instances of a burst-firing M4 used in any movie or video game?'' By "burst-firing M4", I mean the M4 with M16A2/A4 trigger group as issued en mass to regular US Army troops. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I only know of two games that have M4s with the A2/A4 trigger group. There's one of the Call of Duty Modern Warfare games for the Nintendo DS, and then there's the Battlefield 2 mod [[Project Reality]], where it features both burst-firing M4s for the Americans and full-auto M4A1s for the Israelis.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:58, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Thank you, that ''did'' answer my question. Also, lol @the thread on EA Forums. That was a pretty entertaining read. Though I quite disagree with the guy who claims you can't know anything about an M16 or other firearm without having handled or used one. I've never handled an M16, but I still know the difference between an A1, A2, A3, and A4. Good thing I quit bothering with that place within the first few days I registered, otherwise I'd probably be ankle-deep in that ****storm. XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:52, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

== Hi-Def MP videos ==

You guys might want to check this out: On YouTube, there's someone by the name of deluxe345 who has Hi-Definition videos from the Medal of Honor multiplayer (there are 3 or 4). Also, in one of these videos, I spotted an M224 mortar in the killfeed.