Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Tears of the Sun

2010-11-24T01:33:11Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Biased, Personal Comments */

Well, I'm done. How does it look? -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:Great! Except that the weapon you IDed as an "AKS-47" is actually a Chinese Type 56-1. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
::It needs a small rewrite though.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I added caps from the alternate opening of the director's cut of the film. They have the triangular handguards of the 'Nam-era M16s, but I couldn't get any clear shots of the receivers for further ID. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:Please put captions on the screencaps. Please?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:56, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

::Didn't really know what exactly to put, but I hope those captions suffice. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:::Thank you Spartan! Great Job! Those captions suffice. Even if they are generic they suffice.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:03, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

::::I'm sure you've noticed, but you also need the gun picture and the page links. Remember, if you're going to make additions, it's totally welcome, but please follow format. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
::I don't think gun pictures are needed in this case since Spartan doesn't know what kind of M16s they are.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:04, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

:::You can always guess. And that only addresses half my request. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:I do not understand why the medic and the signaller, who would carry the heaviest loads, are both armed with heavier weapons plus ammunition.

== Not an M1A ==

If you enlarge the second picture and look at the stock near the rear of the reciever, you'll see that it is cut for the selector switch. No M1A stock is like this, but all wood stocked M21 are since they're just rebarreled M14s with the selector removed and a scope attached. --[[User:Zurak 47|Zurak 47]] 14:51, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

:I just watched the film again and I agree with you. His rifle obviously has a cut-out for a selector switch , and M1A rifles were never fitted with stocks that had a cut-out for a selector switch, since they were civilian rifles. -Jacco Croon-

::Somebody should do something about this. [[User:BurtReynoldsMoustache|BurtReynoldsMoustache]]

::: It is correct, the first screencap itself shows a notch for a fire-selector, which is not on any civilian semi-auto-only rifles, only actual M14s and M21s. As to whether this is an M14 or M21 I'm not particularly certain (The same mod involving removing the selector was done on normal M14s), however, it indeed is not an M1A. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:30, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

: EDIT - Going through the edit logs, I've found it was previously called an M25, which from what I gather, is what the Navy designates the M21 as (The Army uses the M21 designation). SO, to be accurate, I'll edit to M25 instead of M21. Of course, I still doubt whether it is an actual M21/M25 and not just a modded M14, but I guess we'll burn that bridge when we come to it. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:19, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

== Shotgun muzzle device... ==

...is a "duckbill choke" intended to spread the shot pattern horizontally vs. vertically. They were also used by Vietnam era SEALS, primarily on pump shotguns. The intent is to have an effective, short ranges anti-ambush weapon for the point man. By aiming in the general direction of an identified ambusher and maintaining a horizontal hold, the shotgun can be effective against that ambusher as well as having a chance to hit/distract others close around him. In jungle and forest terrain with limited visibility and engagement ranges, ambushers would have to bunch up in order to maximize firepower on a patrol, especially along a trail.

== The new layout ==
Whoever changed the pages layout to the guns being organized by gun type. yea, dont do that again as i dont like it nor do i think the page that '''I''' made and put a lot of effort into. If you want to do that to your page, knock yourself out, but do '''not''' do this to any of my pages again. Thank you. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]

Chill the hell out! Christ!

== The Knives ==

And Knives ???

Where are you??

:IM'''F'''DB. Firearms unless a cultural reference i.e. Rambo's knives. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

Here are the main knives used; Emerson Police Utility Knife, Sog X-42 Recondo and Emerson Kandahar. Gunner313

== Doc's AK ==

Doc is carrying older AK 47 not AKM. He also has early type magazine on it.

== PP or PPK? ==

The PP looks a little short. Are we sure it's not a PPK? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

==Uniform Goofs==

Just thought I'd point out a goof I noticed in the Marines' uniforms at the end of the film; they had the sleeves of their BDU uniforms rolled up. This is ONLY done when in garrison, NEVER during combat. Some people might also say that their BDU's were somewhat anachronistic as well, but this can be debatable as the digital MARPAT uniform was still being distributed to Marines. In fact, news footage of the 2003 invasion of Iraq (which took place the same year this film came out) often shows Marines wearing the older 3-color Desert Combat Uniform instead of MARPAT (when they weren't covered by woodland-patterned MOPP gear due to fears that Saddam might try to use WMD's against coalition forces).
::Technically manning a refugee checkpoint is NOT considered a battle zone. I've asked that question of Jarheads and they said that (a) it was probably really hot and humid and (b) whatever the uniform of the day dictated would be what they were wearing and (c) the moment a senior officer gets fed up and rolls up his sleeves because of the heat, all bets are off, the rest of the brigade will be doing it. They are not actively patrolling for enemy combatants or on an actual combat mission. They're border security at a refugee camp. So yes, that is the rule and in the field there are always exceptions to the rule. At least that's what my USMC vet associates have said. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

[[Image:TOTS M16A2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|US Marines at the Cameroon border, incorrectly having the sleeves of ther BDU's rolled up while in a combat zone.]]

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 02:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

== M203s are Cobray 37mm Launchers ==

I'm pretty sure that both the M203s on Doc and Zee's M4s are Cobray 37mm launchers. I'm basing this on the screenshots taken. If you blow them up to full size you can see the cocking handle on them.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
:I'm looking at a very nice close-up of the receiver on Doc's launcher at the 1 hour mark of the film (the scene where they're at rest and everyone's eating) on my TV and I can tell you there's no cocking handle and the trigger guard is a rounded shape rather than square like a CM203's trigger guard is. They are indeed actual M203s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

== Biased, Personal Comments ==

Does it really matter if a Beretta 92FS made it into the movie or not? The comment of "While I was hoping to get through a movie without a Beretta 92FS, but sure enough, one shows up in the hands of a militant officer" seems unnecessary. [[Special:Contributions/71.200.27.204|71.200.27.204]] 11:17, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yes it is unnecessary. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 13:23, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Berettas appear in pretty much most modern movies involving lots of guns, plus it doesn't really make sense of how it this militant officer had one. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.) Its not a problem to see the comment so just leave it as is.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Nope, IT IS UNNECESSARY. Or at least change the tone of the comment, making it more scholastic, and not the musing of a snarky, sarcastic critic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

Why wouldn't the militant officer be able to get one? they can buy arms just like any other country. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

That comment has always annoyed me too. If you're going to lament the ubiquity of Beretta 92s in movies, you might as well complain about all the Thompsons in WW2 films, or Peacemakers in Westerns. I may not like the Smith and Wesson semi-automatics, but I understand there are people who do, for valid reasons, so I keep my opinions to myself, instead of using the IMFDB as a soapbox to espouse my hate for them.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 22:33, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

For the record, it was originally a sarcastic comment due to the fact that all of the movies ive done in the past have had Berettas in them and being sarcastic doesnt work in writing. And honestly, i love Berettas and own one of my own. Sorry for the trouble. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]

just saying but the movie battle of the bulge used all Grease Guns or at least dominately which is a nice change. just saying [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:33, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-11-18T23:11:16Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Into Hell */

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Regarding her "busting out her back-up", it may very well have been in the script and intentional, but it's still a ridiculous scene in the way it played out. The script writers could just as easily have wrote in the soldier besting (e.g., cracking her in the face with the stock of his M4 or something) and disarming her, then as she's on the ground and vulnerable, said soldier could advance on her with intent to kill and let his guard down (as all TV bad guys do when up against a female protagonist), only for her to raise up her leg, pull out the back-up, and put a round through his eyeball. I mean, could you conceivably see this scene working if Mack or Jonas were in Bridget's place? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm very sure it was a 10" HK416. Can't confirm it though, needed the hard drive space. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a 416. Watch the special features on the DVDs and you'll get a better view of it.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much guys. i actually was just watching the video off of I-tunes and noticed it looked more like a 416 the 2nd time i watched it. why is it so rare that Movies/ Tv always uses the CQC variant of it? do you think its because with the 14.5 barrel it looks the same as an M4 to the average person? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 22:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's because the 416 isn't widely available to armorers of movies and TV. It's awesome to have the 416 features in The Unit but they stopped using them in season 4, which is a shame since [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
im sure knowone knows the answer but does Delta Force in real life use the M203 still or do they use the HK321? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:Your guess as to what the ''actual'' Unit uses is as good as any of ours. The only ''known'' "Delta" weapons are ones they've been seen using in past operations (e.g., Randy Shughart's M14). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. i would suggest watching Tactical Arms of Tactical Impact. very good shows and the 3 hosts are Ex-Special Ops. Larry Vickers is a famous member of Delta Force who is a founder of Nighthawk Custom, Kyle Defoor is was a Navy SEAL and Jason Falla was an Austrain SAS Operative. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:11, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this is a 459 as has been posted. The barrel looks shorter than that of the 459, rather, it looks similar to that of a 469. Also, the grips are different.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

The small pistol on the left looks like a stainless colt mustang to me. - J3

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Walther ID episode==
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired ''after'' this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The screenschot was uploaded the same day "Sudden Flight" (S4E2) aired. Can anyone check the first two episodes of Season 4 to see if it's from one of them? (I realize it could be from any episode from Seasons 1-3, but this seems like a good place to start).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:54, 31 August 2010 (bUTC)

This image is at the end of The Conduit this is the episode where Mack goes undercover in the fight club. it is a walther ppk that he removes/puts on the suppressor after killing some dude.

You sure? It was uploaded a week before The Conduit aired.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Im sure its unlikely but is it possible that it was uploaded off of a preview? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I just double checked, and it's definitely not from The Conduit. There's no closeup of a PPK like that.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== SG 552 Optic ==

Is it just me, or is Grey's SG 552 equipped with a C-MORE ATAC sight with the lens missing?
[[Image:ATAC 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit552D.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit552-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:19, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

That is definitely what it looks like, I can't think of a reason for this, there is now no front sight to aim at range with, surely? Maybe it was damaged or an bizarre Armorer choice to look distinctive. Can the lens and it's placement be removed like this, easily?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 11:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

They use the same optic (with the lens now attached) on the SG 552s in "The Wall", so I imagine the one used in this episode was damaged at some point before/during filming.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 00:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

==Jonas' pistol in the pilot==

On the main page you have screen caps identifying the pistol that Jonas has in the pilot as a Kimber. It isn't. It doesn't have the front slide serrations. It looks more like a customised 1911 of some sort. After the pilot he started using a Kimber but in the pilot he doesn't. I'll try get a screen cap of a good look at the pistol at the end of the episode that shows the lack of front serrations on the slide.

Pretty sure its a Kimber. From the pics on the main page the rear sights are the same, the trigger guard is the same and the grips are the same. Jonas has always carried a Kimber as his sidearm. Get a screen cap but from what I can tell its definately a Kimber.

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2010-09-02T21:57:44Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Mike Durant's Book */

== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I did read Mike Durant's book and would like to point out he referred to Randy's weapon as a High-Tech rifle. as we all no, it was a vietnam era M14. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 21:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.

== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

::Flight gloves, as I just fucking explained, are not restrictive or obstructive in the slightest.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

:::- ''Uh, I had replied below I didn't know about these gloves specifically, which you seem to have failed to notice. Just as you also seem to have failed to notice that all these comments you posted this slightly irritable and unnecessary response in-between were all posted '''days ago'''. It might help if you thoroughly read the comments and check the dates next time.'' [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

==Discussion about the bullets, or something==
- Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Geneva convention forbids hollow point ammo in the military. The Police of the nation is a different subject. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:You're thinking of the Hague Convention of 1899, not the Geneva Convention.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was the GC or HC and didn't really care to look it up at the moment.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Hague banned all use of ammunition that easily expands or flattens in a human target. I have no exact idea of what round is being used or how it gets around the HC, I only know that when asked about the effectiveness of 5.56 ammunition, a few SF guys made mention that have been issued a new "expanding" round. I have also heard that Marines are now being issued an expanding type round. It may be that since we are not actually fighting an official "military force" that the HC and GC do not apply. Also you must remember that the use of .50 cal against personnel is banned too, how often do you think that is observed?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not saying we follow either conventions to a T in every war, I'm just echoing what I heard from a man who was there. A lot of people who lived through the battle of mogadishu came away with the feeling that Bill Clinton cared more about how headlines would look than he did about the safety of our soldiers. As for HC and GC not applying, I agree that they really don't apply to A) organizations that are not militaries but instead ragtag terrorist groups and B) hail from nations that didn't exist at the time of the convention and never signed a similar document. It's the same argument that was applied for the waterboarding of captured terrorists; apparently, they apply some standards to those who didn't sign, but not others. Personally, I think that terrorist groups and undeveloped countries where they never signed the conventions shouldn't get the protection of them, and we really need to invest into expanding ammunitions for everyone; AP doesn't make sense for unarmored targets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The question about observing the laws was rhetorical in nature. But I agree wholeheartedly about what you say pertaining to the HC and GC applying to people who did not sign it. Its like bringing pirates and terrorists into the US to give them civilian trials. People say they should get military trials... When according to the GC (that people are so happy to apply to the situation) pirates and terrorists are not able to receive either. We selectively apply laws to make us look good internationally, when in reality it costs money, and even worse lives of US citizens and military forces.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 12:36, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances full metal jacket .556 is an ideal round. When fighting a traditional battle, against an enemy that follows the rules of war, it is far better to wound the enemy than kill him. Gunner313

We haven't fought a conventional war that lasted any period of time since Korea (and you could even say WWII, since Korea was less than conventional). Also with the way the enemy works now, any intel we can gather from enemy combatants will likely be useless (if it ever was useful) by the time it gets to the guys on the ground. Also as stated by me, and others before, under 50 yards and especially against an enemy that is drugged up a FMJ is likely not going to down an enemy either by wounding him or killing him. Of course shot placement comes into play heavily, but as cases have proven a COM shot is likely not to drop a determined attacker immediately. Head and extremity shots are also very hard to make, with FMJ pretty much the only way to immediately and most important reliably drop an attacker at close range is a pelvic shot. But now days in Afghanistan most fighting is taking place on the far end if not beyond the 5.56's effective range. Also Gunner313 it is 5.56, not .556, .556mm is a really damn small projectile haha. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 14:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Why is it better to wound them? -SasquatchJim.

Because then you can detain them get information from them.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. I apologize; I thought he meant that wounding them was more humane, or something. Although, dead people can't keep shooting at you; wounded ones can. -SasquatchJim

It is better to wound them because it requires the enemy to care for their wounded, they have to be treated, they have to be transported, it is demoralizing to the others to hear someone in terrible pain, so for a short time a wounding shot, takes two people out of the fight. Also the more medical supplies that have to be shipped to the front for the wounded, means less of other items such as ammo, food, fuel, misc... Gunner313

Talk:Takers

2010-09-01T23:20:14Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* 1911 */ new section

Is it just me or does this look like ''Heat'', only with mostly black guys? Here's Wikipedia's take, for what its worth: ''A group of professional bank robbers, who specialize in spectacular robberies, are pulled into one last job by a recently paroled cohort only to be pitted against a hard-boiled detective who interrupts their heist.'' If that's not ''Heat'', then i don't know what is.

For a minute, I was looking for the scene in [[The Losers]] where the team walks away as a helicopter explodes, but then I realized that [[Idris Elba]] is in both movies and that scene is from this film. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 21:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Who called this the new Heat? ==

Seriously, someone told me that articles are writing this as the Heat of this generation and that just made me cringe. The cast just didn't have the legendary status that De Niro and Al Picino had back then and they had too many named cast members unlike Heat. And really, the Heat of the recent generation would be Public Enemies which was directed by Micheal Mann.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:04, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

But come on on! Walker is almost like a de niro (note sarcasm)...Heat is in its own right and really i would like to believe only a independent movie could reach that magnatude. But Public Enemies?...i guess if you could stay awake long enough it could maybe be a little like heat...kinda. If anything can be compared to heat right now i think it would be The Town with jermy remmer--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Some of the shoot outs in [[Mesrine: Killer Instinct]] are on the epic scale similar to Heat; it certainly has a very prolonged shootout involving a variety of different weapons. This is the true story of a famous French bank robber, and his exploits in France and later in Canada. The final shootout of the 1st film is quite spectacular, and is surely the only time in history where an escaped prisoner comes back to rescue his fellow inmates, M16 in hand (remember this is a true story!). Worth checking out this not too famous film...

Thanks for the info...I love to hear about awesome foreign flics...I'm almost out of Cantonese and korean movies to watch, or atleast the good ones.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:22, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I've seen Takers and I've got to say, it's no Heat. That's because there will never be another heist movie like Heat.

Unless they remake it. Which seems like the trend nowadays in film. To remake better films. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

In 3D [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

No one could remake Heat besides Michael Mann.
:And he already did. Heat is a remake of LA Takedown. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== 1911 ==

I think its possible the first .45 used by John could possibly be a Kimber Pro Carry II or maybe a Nighthawk T3. those would be my guesses but im not sure. i also when watching the movie thought he might have switched because in some parts the 1911 seemed more compact. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:20, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-09-01T23:10:29Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Into Hell */

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm very sure it was a 10" HK416. Can't confirm it though, needed the hard drive space. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a 416. Watch the special features on the DVDs and you'll get a better view of it.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much guys. i actually was just watching the video off of I-tunes and noticed it looked more like a 416 the 2nd time i watched it. why is it so rare that Movies/ Tv always uses the CQC variant of it? do you think its because with the 14.5 barrel it looks the same as an M4 to the average person? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 22:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's because the 416 isn't widely available to armorers of movies and TV. It's awesome to have the 416 features in The Unit but they stopped using them in season 4, which is a shame since [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
im sure knowone knows the answer but does Delta Force in real life use the M203 still or do they use the HK321? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this is a 459 as has been posted. The barrel looks shorter than that of the 459, rather, it looks similar to that of a 469. Also, the grips are different.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

The small pistol on the left looks like a stainless colt mustang to me. - J3

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Walther ID episode==
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired ''after'' this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The screenschot was uploaded the same day "Sudden Flight" (S4E2) aired. Can anyone check the first two episodes of Season 4 to see if it's from one of them? (I realize it could be from any episode from Seasons 1-3, but this seems like a good place to start).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:54, 31 August 2010 (bUTC)

This image is at the end of The Conduit this is the episode where Mack goes undercover in the fight club. it is a walther ppk that he removes/puts on the suppressor after killing some dude.

You sure? It was uploaded a week before The Conduit aired.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Im sure its unlikely but is it possible that it was uploaded off of a preview? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-09-01T23:08:48Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Walther ID episode */

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm very sure it was a 10" HK416. Can't confirm it though, needed the hard drive space. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a 416. Watch the special features on the DVDs and you'll get a better view of it.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much guys. i actually was just watching the video off of I-tunes and noticed it looked more like a 416 the 2nd time i watched it. why is it so rare that Movies/ Tv always uses the CQC variant of it? do you think its because with the 14.5 barrel it looks the same as an M4 to the average person? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 22:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's because the 416 isn't widely available to armorers of movies and TV. It's awesome to have the 416 features in The Unit but they stopped using them in season 4, which is a shame since [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this is a 459 as has been posted. The barrel looks shorter than that of the 459, rather, it looks similar to that of a 469. Also, the grips are different.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

The small pistol on the left looks like a stainless colt mustang to me. - J3

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Walther ID episode==
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired ''after'' this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The screenschot was uploaded the same day "Sudden Flight" (S4E2) aired. Can anyone check the first two episodes of Season 4 to see if it's from one of them? (I realize it could be from any episode from Seasons 1-3, but this seems like a good place to start).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:54, 31 August 2010 (bUTC)

This image is at the end of The Conduit this is the episode where Mack goes undercover in the fight club. it is a walther ppk that he removes/puts on the suppressor after killing some dude.

You sure? It was uploaded a week before The Conduit aired.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Im sure its unlikely but is it possible that it was uploaded off of a preview? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2010-08-31T00:50:31Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Seriously */

== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.

== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2010-08-30T23:41:48Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Seriously */

== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.

== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2010-08-30T23:38:03Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Shughart and the M14/M16 switch */

== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.

== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-29T22:23:50Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Into Hell */

This is one of those hard series since pictures are hard to find and I'm not a master of screenshots.

I like to keep the format I've set for the photos of M4s and MP5Ks the way it is because there were a lot of photos and I think the current format for those are appealing.

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Probably Hard Shots to find==
I only saw the first episode of this show and if memory serves me right, one guy went quail hunting with a pump shotgun (870 I believe) and then was held up by a man with a Mini-14 which I think had a 30 or 40 round magazine. Since the first episode isn't easy to find on the computer, I'm assuming this shot would be difficult to come by unless someone owns the first season on DVD. -GM

::That wasn't the first episode. It was another episode of the first season. I do remember that scene and will find shots of that eventually.

:Saw another episode one day were everyone was holed up in this house and one guy outside was shooting at BGs with a Browning M2 mocked up as a DShK. Sorry I can't help further but I don't watch it enough to describe further. Lot of good shots of M4A1s too. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

On the page, it said that Mack had a Kimber Warrior, can someone upload some pictures of that? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The Televised pictures of the Kimber Warrior doesnt look like a real Warrior. First, there is no laynard loop on the bottom of the grip. Second, the finish on the nose is showing some silver, and the KimPro finish doesnt wear like that. Could the show actually use a TLE/RL or maybe a SWAT edition. [[Spades of Columbia]]

TLE was used for a few seasons, then switched to the Warrior. Mack uses a normal 1911 most of the time in the newer seasons.
i do remember one episode. i dont recall the name, but i believe it was called "Stress". the one were their in africa and find a terrorist. i think Hector had one. and so did Jonas. if at all possible, can someone please add a couple of them that Mack uses them? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The SWAT custom one doesn't have the rail for optics [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Size of pics ==

I am not sure of the so called "format" of this site but I like the format of the M4 and MP5K section and how it's arranged and want to keep it that way. Also some pics are larger than others. The reason is that if they are smaller than 600 then they would look distorted. This didn't really happen in the old server. but for here I had to make them larger to they won't look so you can't seen any pixal on them. The larger size gives the photos smoother looks.

== Not a mk 12 ==

If someone has a better name to call it, then correct it. Saying it isn't something else isn't helping in identifying what the sniper rifle is.

== Eat your Hard Boiled out ==

The Unit section now beats even Hard Boiled with over 60+ guns counted

:Nice work, now I can only say that Hard Boiled is the largest movie page. To be fair though, a T.V. show can grow, a movie stays still but anyway, great work.

::Yeah, nice job. I honestly have to admit that I don't have the patience to do TV show pages just cause they tend to feature lots of guns over the course of several seasons (especially a weapons-heavy military show like ''[[The Unit]]''). Plus, I rarely buy entire seasons of TV shows.

:::Well It was hard to track down the previous season since links to them have poor connection. I had considered renting the DVDs. Either way, this show has an impressive array of firearms and it isn't stopping in what the Unit shoots next.

== Rearrange of Garand, Winchester, and SKS ==

Recently the SKS, M1 Garand and the Winchester 1886 was moved to "other weapons" because they don't fit either section of Assault rifle nor sniper rifle. Hence they would be placed in the same section as the musket rifle would be since they are dated weapons.

== That´s a L1A1 SLR ==

[[Image:UnitFAL5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
judging by the handguards and the front sight,that´s a L1A1.

:It's still a FAL

== Two nit picks... ==

The derringer that Jonas carries in while wearing the tux looks like a High Standard Derringer. These were double action, tip down, .22 magnum as opposed to the single action, tip up, .41 rimfire of the original Remington design.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SN4dXMHNTUI/AAAAAAAAAj4/z2jZ_wOCmls/s1600/High%2BStandard%2B-%2BDerringer%2BMod.%2BDM%2B101%2B-%2Bpistol%2B-%2B.22%2BMagnum.jpg

Also, the lever action noted as a Winchester 1886 looks more like a Marlin 336. The 1886's bolt occupied most of the center of the upper reciever, while the Marlin has a round bolt with the ejection port on the right side of the reciever. In the pic, you can see the silver, circular section right in front of the hammer, which is the bolt.

http://www.outdoorsurvivalinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/start1_med1.jpg

Great site, thanks for all the trouble!
Doug K

==SU-16==

The keltec su-16 page says one was used in the show and i dont see it here. Anyone know where it was used? -K9870

:I don't see an SU-16. Anyone know which episode this supposively have appeared in? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==R.I.P.==

Just read over on Imdb that [[The Unit]] has been canceled by CBS. Bummer. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:From what I can see, the cancellation hasn't been decided on yet. But piss on CBS if they do. The Unit is the only show I look forward to every week. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:CBS canceled Jericho and then they canceled The Unit. That network just sucks. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::Tell me about it. Two of the best shows in CBS history right there and they're more concerned with "reality" shows like Survivor (which, BTW, are actually filmed on sound stages and not in tropical jungles and whatnot). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== Need help ID'ing AR-15 Variant. ==

As seen here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/The_Unit#Unknown_AR-15.2FM4_Variant]]. I'm pretty sure it's not a HK416, M4, or CQBR. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Model 933, but I'm no expert on AR-15s. Any help would be much appreciated.

[[Image:UnitAR4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Looks like a 933 or equivalent to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

I guess it is. Time for another update. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

==Optics w/ BUIS an anachronism?==
How is having BUISs on an optic-equipped weapon an anachronism when military and police commonly use said combo? Hell, even the Barrett 82 has BUISs. No offense to whoever made that statement, but it's gotta be one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever read. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Wait, where is this said on the page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Originally at the top of the Colt 933 section, but it's not there anymore. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

==Breaking up pages==
This page is getting too big to add any more items. I would like to break it up into different pages, creating new pages by weapons like the page is now and linking them to the original page. Has anyone else already started this? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]

:No offense, but screw that. Why break up a page just because it has too many guns? I mean have you seen Miami Vice? Mail Call? Hard boil? Those are pretty big pages too. I don't need to break up my page so that it is easier on your eyes. It's a waste of space and all it that pistol page has done was just waste space on the server. And what do you mean "too big to add anymore items?" There's no limit on how many guns you can put on a page as long as it has been shown on the show. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::However, Miami Vice was broken up into seasons because it took too long for the page to load or it crashed completely. The Unit doesn't have that problem, so I don't see a need to break it up. I do disagree about "there being no limit to adding to a page". the Miami Vice tv show is a prime example of a page getting so big it becomes unviewable to 99% of the potential users (unless someone has lightning fast internet connection and large RAM, which most people don't have. But I have no problems loading the Unit page, so I was mystified by the breakup. MPM2008

:If the Unit gets more seasons down the road with 10 times more guns, then I'll happily break it up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

::Here's hoping someone wises up and gives us a couple more seasons. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Small size caps? ==

Who turned all my caps from my standard 500x to this small size? It's ungodly small for a page like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::I think the user thought that shrinking the thumbnails would speed up the loading time. It doesn't. The page still has to re-size whatever the size of the original image is. Also IMFDB's standard is 500px or 600px (for ultra widescreen or high resolution shots). Again we still need a rules page, to tell the new users what the page standards are. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==Breaking up pages (cont.)==
If you go into the edit page, it gives a warning that the page is over 32kb and recommends that it should be broken up into different pages, but it looks like you want to keep it the way it is. So go ahead and delete the page with just the pistols on it. [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]
:It's at 42kb. Not much larger than recommended. Miami Vice was at 93kb, before it was broken up. Season 1 and 2 are at 40kb apiece. Load time is not bad on The Unit. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Then I'll get rid of unnecessary gun caps. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

:Is the Season 4 DVD box art really necessary? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, because I put it up as a featured article. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

==CM203 entry added==
I just got Season 4 on DVD, so I figured I'd jump at the chance and get caps of those Cobrays used in S4E7/8. I only took caps of them in episode 7, though, as I figured that was sufficient enough documentation for the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Like all armories for film and TV series, these would most likely be Cobray 37mm flare launchers that were designed to look like M203s. This is a common practice to have the appearance of 203s. It is unlikely any of the M203s seen in the series are real M203s.

:While that could be the case, the second picture of Blane show that it is an M203, the the C37. But, with the advancement of m203s and RIS systems, a soldier could simply slide on an m203. So, it could also be an airsoft replica if its never fired. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:The only episodes I recall seeing Cobrays in are S4E7/8. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

== Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol ==

In the story. Jonas took 2 of these out as a hidden weapon that he kept within a rat trap. He handed on to is wife before he made a disappearing act. I guess in story it's supposed to resemble a Walther TP or TPH.

''I don't know dude...these look a lot like the Walther PP or PPK to me. If these images are from the episode I am thinking of (the finale of Season 1) my reaction, at the time, was "why is Joans carrying such a weak ass pistol as his sidearm???".''

''Nah, the Walthers don't have that little extra piece of metal extending from the trigger guard to the barrel. But, then again...''
:It looks like a Walther PSM. It's like a PPK but with an extended trigger guard. Hammer looks like it too. -GM
::''What is a Walther PSM? Did you mean Walther TP or TPH? PSM is a Russian pistol made by Izhevsk.

::That is a '''Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol'''. I just checked the lower image against the one I have. Brixia Arms used to make this type of blank gun about 10 years ago, but their quality was pretty bad. There 'might' be some available, but the majority of the 8mm theatrical blank firing PPKs on the market now are made by '''Kimar''' or '''Voltran'''. What tips it off, is the writing on the slide (it is identical to the markings on my Brixia Nickel plated Walther PPK theatrical blank gun) and the '''hole''' drilled in the top of the barrel (where the ejection port is). This hole allows the flash from the blank round to fire '''upwards''' since the barrel is blocked. Also the magazine is a thin single stack type that only holds those skinny 8mm blank rounds. ____[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

==M60E4==
I put this pic here because I think it's copyrighted.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Unit-MG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

== number 3 biggest? ==
ok both this and stargate SG-1 page both say that they are the 3rd biggest --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 02:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The Unit is number 3, by my count there are about 40 more weapons. It's also about twice the physical size (KB) if that matters at all. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== 933 RIS? ==
What is this RIS?
[[Image:UnitAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit4164.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Looks like DD Mk.18 RIS II but I'm not sure.

Looks more like a Yankee Hill rail. [http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-Lightweight-Tactical-Free-Float-Mid-Length-p/yhm-9634%20ff%20mid.htm]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown M16 ==
I've uploaded another screencap of the M16 Bob carries in "Natural Selection."
[[Image:UnitM161.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
It's hard to tell since Scott Foley's thumb is in the way, but it appears that this rifle does not have a brass deflector, which would mean that it is not a Model 715 as has been suggested. Is there any official designation for this weapon (A1 sights, no brass deflector, A2 handguards and heavy barrel profile) or is simply a frankengun?
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:None that I know of. I've never seen or heard of that configuration before. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::It's a Franken-rifle. It has an A1 upper receiver, an SP1 lower receiver, and an A2 heavy barrel. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I'm gonna say frankengun, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Five Brothers ==

Why would the team have LAMs on their weapons in a 100% CQB op? when it would make more sense to have a tac-light?

You mean the PEQs they got attached? Maybe the missions required them to use them when they get outside. Who knows, they do this all the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

that doesnt even make sense. Beruit- a very close quarters city. why would they possible need an AN-PEQ? their guns have 10.5 inch barrels it would make sense to have a surefire tac-light. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

A flashlights best purpose is to give your position away. If shit were to hit the fan, like it did, and they had to operate at night they would be far better off if they used the IR light for illumination. And the laser for aiming assist. Personally, I'd want a visible light source on my gun, but there's no issue having a hand held on you belt or vest. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 05:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm very sure it was a 10" HK416. Can't confirm it though, needed the hard drive space. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a 416. Watch the special features on the DVDs and you'll get a better view of it.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much guys. i actually was just watching the video off of I-tunes and noticed it looked more like a 416 the 2nd time i watched it. why is it so rare that Movies/ Tv always uses the CQC variant of it? do you think its because with the 14.5 barrel it looks the same as an M4 to the average person? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 22:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

== Every Step You Take ==
Hey guys, I was just watching The Unit Season 3 Episode 4 "Every Step You Take" and I noticed Bob passing a weapon to one of the American Embassy employees. I know that he passed his 1911 to the guy's wife and later on he passes a smaller pistol to the embassy employee. It looks like a Walther PPK but I'm not sure. Could someone help me identify it? I would upload a screencap but I'm not too sure how to. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]]

I think it's a continuity error. The scene previously showed Bob handing over his SIG to the man, but in the next scene, it turns into what looks like a PPK [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:19, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Walther ID episode==
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired ''after'' this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-29T15:55:33Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Into Hell */

This is one of those hard series since pictures are hard to find and I'm not a master of screenshots.

I like to keep the format I've set for the photos of M4s and MP5Ks the way it is because there were a lot of photos and I think the current format for those are appealing.

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Probably Hard Shots to find==
I only saw the first episode of this show and if memory serves me right, one guy went quail hunting with a pump shotgun (870 I believe) and then was held up by a man with a Mini-14 which I think had a 30 or 40 round magazine. Since the first episode isn't easy to find on the computer, I'm assuming this shot would be difficult to come by unless someone owns the first season on DVD. -GM

::That wasn't the first episode. It was another episode of the first season. I do remember that scene and will find shots of that eventually.

:Saw another episode one day were everyone was holed up in this house and one guy outside was shooting at BGs with a Browning M2 mocked up as a DShK. Sorry I can't help further but I don't watch it enough to describe further. Lot of good shots of M4A1s too. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

On the page, it said that Mack had a Kimber Warrior, can someone upload some pictures of that? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The Televised pictures of the Kimber Warrior doesnt look like a real Warrior. First, there is no laynard loop on the bottom of the grip. Second, the finish on the nose is showing some silver, and the KimPro finish doesnt wear like that. Could the show actually use a TLE/RL or maybe a SWAT edition. [[Spades of Columbia]]

TLE was used for a few seasons, then switched to the Warrior. Mack uses a normal 1911 most of the time in the newer seasons.
i do remember one episode. i dont recall the name, but i believe it was called "Stress". the one were their in africa and find a terrorist. i think Hector had one. and so did Jonas. if at all possible, can someone please add a couple of them that Mack uses them? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The SWAT custom one doesn't have the rail for optics [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Size of pics ==

I am not sure of the so called "format" of this site but I like the format of the M4 and MP5K section and how it's arranged and want to keep it that way. Also some pics are larger than others. The reason is that if they are smaller than 600 then they would look distorted. This didn't really happen in the old server. but for here I had to make them larger to they won't look so you can't seen any pixal on them. The larger size gives the photos smoother looks.

== Not a mk 12 ==

If someone has a better name to call it, then correct it. Saying it isn't something else isn't helping in identifying what the sniper rifle is.

== Eat your Hard Boiled out ==

The Unit section now beats even Hard Boiled with over 60+ guns counted

:Nice work, now I can only say that Hard Boiled is the largest movie page. To be fair though, a T.V. show can grow, a movie stays still but anyway, great work.

::Yeah, nice job. I honestly have to admit that I don't have the patience to do TV show pages just cause they tend to feature lots of guns over the course of several seasons (especially a weapons-heavy military show like ''[[The Unit]]''). Plus, I rarely buy entire seasons of TV shows.

:::Well It was hard to track down the previous season since links to them have poor connection. I had considered renting the DVDs. Either way, this show has an impressive array of firearms and it isn't stopping in what the Unit shoots next.

== Rearrange of Garand, Winchester, and SKS ==

Recently the SKS, M1 Garand and the Winchester 1886 was moved to "other weapons" because they don't fit either section of Assault rifle nor sniper rifle. Hence they would be placed in the same section as the musket rifle would be since they are dated weapons.

== That´s a L1A1 SLR ==

[[Image:UnitFAL5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
judging by the handguards and the front sight,that´s a L1A1.

:It's still a FAL

== Two nit picks... ==

The derringer that Jonas carries in while wearing the tux looks like a High Standard Derringer. These were double action, tip down, .22 magnum as opposed to the single action, tip up, .41 rimfire of the original Remington design.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SN4dXMHNTUI/AAAAAAAAAj4/z2jZ_wOCmls/s1600/High%2BStandard%2B-%2BDerringer%2BMod.%2BDM%2B101%2B-%2Bpistol%2B-%2B.22%2BMagnum.jpg

Also, the lever action noted as a Winchester 1886 looks more like a Marlin 336. The 1886's bolt occupied most of the center of the upper reciever, while the Marlin has a round bolt with the ejection port on the right side of the reciever. In the pic, you can see the silver, circular section right in front of the hammer, which is the bolt.

http://www.outdoorsurvivalinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/start1_med1.jpg

Great site, thanks for all the trouble!
Doug K

==SU-16==

The keltec su-16 page says one was used in the show and i dont see it here. Anyone know where it was used? -K9870

:I don't see an SU-16. Anyone know which episode this supposively have appeared in? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==R.I.P.==

Just read over on Imdb that [[The Unit]] has been canceled by CBS. Bummer. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:From what I can see, the cancellation hasn't been decided on yet. But piss on CBS if they do. The Unit is the only show I look forward to every week. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:CBS canceled Jericho and then they canceled The Unit. That network just sucks. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::Tell me about it. Two of the best shows in CBS history right there and they're more concerned with "reality" shows like Survivor (which, BTW, are actually filmed on sound stages and not in tropical jungles and whatnot). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== Need help ID'ing AR-15 Variant. ==

As seen here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/The_Unit#Unknown_AR-15.2FM4_Variant]]. I'm pretty sure it's not a HK416, M4, or CQBR. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Model 933, but I'm no expert on AR-15s. Any help would be much appreciated.

[[Image:UnitAR4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Looks like a 933 or equivalent to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

I guess it is. Time for another update. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

==Optics w/ BUIS an anachronism?==
How is having BUISs on an optic-equipped weapon an anachronism when military and police commonly use said combo? Hell, even the Barrett 82 has BUISs. No offense to whoever made that statement, but it's gotta be one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever read. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Wait, where is this said on the page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Originally at the top of the Colt 933 section, but it's not there anymore. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

==Breaking up pages==
This page is getting too big to add any more items. I would like to break it up into different pages, creating new pages by weapons like the page is now and linking them to the original page. Has anyone else already started this? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]

:No offense, but screw that. Why break up a page just because it has too many guns? I mean have you seen Miami Vice? Mail Call? Hard boil? Those are pretty big pages too. I don't need to break up my page so that it is easier on your eyes. It's a waste of space and all it that pistol page has done was just waste space on the server. And what do you mean "too big to add anymore items?" There's no limit on how many guns you can put on a page as long as it has been shown on the show. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::However, Miami Vice was broken up into seasons because it took too long for the page to load or it crashed completely. The Unit doesn't have that problem, so I don't see a need to break it up. I do disagree about "there being no limit to adding to a page". the Miami Vice tv show is a prime example of a page getting so big it becomes unviewable to 99% of the potential users (unless someone has lightning fast internet connection and large RAM, which most people don't have. But I have no problems loading the Unit page, so I was mystified by the breakup. MPM2008

:If the Unit gets more seasons down the road with 10 times more guns, then I'll happily break it up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

::Here's hoping someone wises up and gives us a couple more seasons. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Small size caps? ==

Who turned all my caps from my standard 500x to this small size? It's ungodly small for a page like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::I think the user thought that shrinking the thumbnails would speed up the loading time. It doesn't. The page still has to re-size whatever the size of the original image is. Also IMFDB's standard is 500px or 600px (for ultra widescreen or high resolution shots). Again we still need a rules page, to tell the new users what the page standards are. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==Breaking up pages (cont.)==
If you go into the edit page, it gives a warning that the page is over 32kb and recommends that it should be broken up into different pages, but it looks like you want to keep it the way it is. So go ahead and delete the page with just the pistols on it. [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]
:It's at 42kb. Not much larger than recommended. Miami Vice was at 93kb, before it was broken up. Season 1 and 2 are at 40kb apiece. Load time is not bad on The Unit. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Then I'll get rid of unnecessary gun caps. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

:Is the Season 4 DVD box art really necessary? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, because I put it up as a featured article. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

==CM203 entry added==
I just got Season 4 on DVD, so I figured I'd jump at the chance and get caps of those Cobrays used in S4E7/8. I only took caps of them in episode 7, though, as I figured that was sufficient enough documentation for the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Like all armories for film and TV series, these would most likely be Cobray 37mm flare launchers that were designed to look like M203s. This is a common practice to have the appearance of 203s. It is unlikely any of the M203s seen in the series are real M203s.

:While that could be the case, the second picture of Blane show that it is an M203, the the C37. But, with the advancement of m203s and RIS systems, a soldier could simply slide on an m203. So, it could also be an airsoft replica if its never fired. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:The only episodes I recall seeing Cobrays in are S4E7/8. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

== Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol ==

In the story. Jonas took 2 of these out as a hidden weapon that he kept within a rat trap. He handed on to is wife before he made a disappearing act. I guess in story it's supposed to resemble a Walther TP or TPH.

''I don't know dude...these look a lot like the Walther PP or PPK to me. If these images are from the episode I am thinking of (the finale of Season 1) my reaction, at the time, was "why is Joans carrying such a weak ass pistol as his sidearm???".''

''Nah, the Walthers don't have that little extra piece of metal extending from the trigger guard to the barrel. But, then again...''
:It looks like a Walther PSM. It's like a PPK but with an extended trigger guard. Hammer looks like it too. -GM
::''What is a Walther PSM? Did you mean Walther TP or TPH? PSM is a Russian pistol made by Izhevsk.

::That is a '''Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol'''. I just checked the lower image against the one I have. Brixia Arms used to make this type of blank gun about 10 years ago, but their quality was pretty bad. There 'might' be some available, but the majority of the 8mm theatrical blank firing PPKs on the market now are made by '''Kimar''' or '''Voltran'''. What tips it off, is the writing on the slide (it is identical to the markings on my Brixia Nickel plated Walther PPK theatrical blank gun) and the '''hole''' drilled in the top of the barrel (where the ejection port is). This hole allows the flash from the blank round to fire '''upwards''' since the barrel is blocked. Also the magazine is a thin single stack type that only holds those skinny 8mm blank rounds. ____[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

==M60E4==
I put this pic here because I think it's copyrighted.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Unit-MG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

== number 3 biggest? ==
ok both this and stargate SG-1 page both say that they are the 3rd biggest --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 02:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The Unit is number 3, by my count there are about 40 more weapons. It's also about twice the physical size (KB) if that matters at all. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== 933 RIS? ==
What is this RIS?
[[Image:UnitAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit4164.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Looks like DD Mk.18 RIS II but I'm not sure.

Looks more like a Yankee Hill rail. [http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-Lightweight-Tactical-Free-Float-Mid-Length-p/yhm-9634%20ff%20mid.htm]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown M16 ==
I've uploaded another screencap of the M16 Bob carries in "Natural Selection."
[[Image:UnitM161.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
It's hard to tell since Scott Foley's thumb is in the way, but it appears that this rifle does not have a brass deflector, which would mean that it is not a Model 715 as has been suggested. Is there any official designation for this weapon (A1 sights, no brass deflector, A2 handguards and heavy barrel profile) or is simply a frankengun?
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:None that I know of. I've never seen or heard of that configuration before. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::It's a Franken-rifle. It has an A1 upper receiver, an SP1 lower receiver, and an A2 heavy barrel. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I'm gonna say frankengun, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Five Brothers ==

Why would the team have LAMs on their weapons in a 100% CQB op? when it would make more sense to have a tac-light?

You mean the PEQs they got attached? Maybe the missions required them to use them when they get outside. Who knows, they do this all the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

that doesnt even make sense. Beruit- a very close quarters city. why would they possible need an AN-PEQ? their guns have 10.5 inch barrels it would make sense to have a surefire tac-light. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

A flashlights best purpose is to give your position away. If shit were to hit the fan, like it did, and they had to operate at night they would be far better off if they used the IR light for illumination. And the laser for aiming assist. Personally, I'd want a visible light source on my gun, but there's no issue having a hand held on you belt or vest. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 05:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

== Every Step You Take ==
Hey guys, I was just watching The Unit Season 3 Episode 4 "Every Step You Take" and I noticed Bob passing a weapon to one of the American Embassy employees. I know that he passed his 1911 to the guy's wife and later on he passes a smaller pistol to the embassy employee. It looks like a Walther PPK but I'm not sure. Could someone help me identify it? I would upload a screencap but I'm not too sure how to. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]]

I think it's a continuity error. The scene previously showed Bob handing over his SIG to the man, but in the next scene, it turns into what looks like a PPK [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:19, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Walther ID episode==
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired ''after'' this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-24T13:20:27Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Walther ID episode */

This is one of those hard series since pictures are hard to find and I'm not a master of screenshots.

I like to keep the format I've set for the photos of M4s and MP5Ks the way it is because there were a lot of photos and I think the current format for those are appealing.

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Probably Hard Shots to find==
I only saw the first episode of this show and if memory serves me right, one guy went quail hunting with a pump shotgun (870 I believe) and then was held up by a man with a Mini-14 which I think had a 30 or 40 round magazine. Since the first episode isn't easy to find on the computer, I'm assuming this shot would be difficult to come by unless someone owns the first season on DVD. -GM

::That wasn't the first episode. It was another episode of the first season. I do remember that scene and will find shots of that eventually.

:Saw another episode one day were everyone was holed up in this house and one guy outside was shooting at BGs with a Browning M2 mocked up as a DShK. Sorry I can't help further but I don't watch it enough to describe further. Lot of good shots of M4A1s too. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

On the page, it said that Mack had a Kimber Warrior, can someone upload some pictures of that? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The Televised pictures of the Kimber Warrior doesnt look like a real Warrior. First, there is no laynard loop on the bottom of the grip. Second, the finish on the nose is showing some silver, and the KimPro finish doesnt wear like that. Could the show actually use a TLE/RL or maybe a SWAT edition. [[Spades of Columbia]]

TLE was used for a few seasons, then switched to the Warrior. Mack uses a normal 1911 most of the time in the newer seasons.
i do remember one episode. i dont recall the name, but i believe it was called "Stress". the one were their in africa and find a terrorist. i think Hector had one. and so did Jonas. if at all possible, can someone please add a couple of them that Mack uses them? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The SWAT custom one doesn't have the rail for optics [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Size of pics ==

I am not sure of the so called "format" of this site but I like the format of the M4 and MP5K section and how it's arranged and want to keep it that way. Also some pics are larger than others. The reason is that if they are smaller than 600 then they would look distorted. This didn't really happen in the old server. but for here I had to make them larger to they won't look so you can't seen any pixal on them. The larger size gives the photos smoother looks.

== Not a mk 12 ==

If someone has a better name to call it, then correct it. Saying it isn't something else isn't helping in identifying what the sniper rifle is.

== Eat your Hard Boiled out ==

The Unit section now beats even Hard Boiled with over 60+ guns counted

:Nice work, now I can only say that Hard Boiled is the largest movie page. To be fair though, a T.V. show can grow, a movie stays still but anyway, great work.

::Yeah, nice job. I honestly have to admit that I don't have the patience to do TV show pages just cause they tend to feature lots of guns over the course of several seasons (especially a weapons-heavy military show like ''[[The Unit]]''). Plus, I rarely buy entire seasons of TV shows.

:::Well It was hard to track down the previous season since links to them have poor connection. I had considered renting the DVDs. Either way, this show has an impressive array of firearms and it isn't stopping in what the Unit shoots next.

== Rearrange of Garand, Winchester, and SKS ==

Recently the SKS, M1 Garand and the Winchester 1886 was moved to "other weapons" because they don't fit either section of Assault rifle nor sniper rifle. Hence they would be placed in the same section as the musket rifle would be since they are dated weapons.

== That´s a L1A1 SLR ==

[[Image:UnitFAL5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
judging by the handguards and the front sight,that´s a L1A1.

:It's still a FAL

== Two nit picks... ==

The derringer that Jonas carries in while wearing the tux looks like a High Standard Derringer. These were double action, tip down, .22 magnum as opposed to the single action, tip up, .41 rimfire of the original Remington design.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SN4dXMHNTUI/AAAAAAAAAj4/z2jZ_wOCmls/s1600/High%2BStandard%2B-%2BDerringer%2BMod.%2BDM%2B101%2B-%2Bpistol%2B-%2B.22%2BMagnum.jpg

Also, the lever action noted as a Winchester 1886 looks more like a Marlin 336. The 1886's bolt occupied most of the center of the upper reciever, while the Marlin has a round bolt with the ejection port on the right side of the reciever. In the pic, you can see the silver, circular section right in front of the hammer, which is the bolt.

http://www.outdoorsurvivalinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/start1_med1.jpg

Great site, thanks for all the trouble!
Doug K

==SU-16==

The keltec su-16 page says one was used in the show and i dont see it here. Anyone know where it was used? -K9870

:I don't see an SU-16. Anyone know which episode this supposively have appeared in? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==R.I.P.==

Just read over on Imdb that [[The Unit]] has been canceled by CBS. Bummer. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:From what I can see, the cancellation hasn't been decided on yet. But piss on CBS if they do. The Unit is the only show I look forward to every week. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:CBS canceled Jericho and then they canceled The Unit. That network just sucks. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::Tell me about it. Two of the best shows in CBS history right there and they're more concerned with "reality" shows like Survivor (which, BTW, are actually filmed on sound stages and not in tropical jungles and whatnot). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== Need help ID'ing AR-15 Variant. ==

As seen here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/The_Unit#Unknown_AR-15.2FM4_Variant]]. I'm pretty sure it's not a HK416, M4, or CQBR. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Model 933, but I'm no expert on AR-15s. Any help would be much appreciated.

[[Image:UnitAR4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Looks like a 933 or equivalent to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

I guess it is. Time for another update. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

==Optics w/ BUIS an anachronism?==
How is having BUISs on an optic-equipped weapon an anachronism when military and police commonly use said combo? Hell, even the Barrett 82 has BUISs. No offense to whoever made that statement, but it's gotta be one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever read. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Wait, where is this said on the page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Originally at the top of the Colt 933 section, but it's not there anymore. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

==Breaking up pages==
This page is getting too big to add any more items. I would like to break it up into different pages, creating new pages by weapons like the page is now and linking them to the original page. Has anyone else already started this? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]

:No offense, but screw that. Why break up a page just because it has too many guns? I mean have you seen Miami Vice? Mail Call? Hard boil? Those are pretty big pages too. I don't need to break up my page so that it is easier on your eyes. It's a waste of space and all it that pistol page has done was just waste space on the server. And what do you mean "too big to add anymore items?" There's no limit on how many guns you can put on a page as long as it has been shown on the show. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::However, Miami Vice was broken up into seasons because it took too long for the page to load or it crashed completely. The Unit doesn't have that problem, so I don't see a need to break it up. I do disagree about "there being no limit to adding to a page". the Miami Vice tv show is a prime example of a page getting so big it becomes unviewable to 99% of the potential users (unless someone has lightning fast internet connection and large RAM, which most people don't have. But I have no problems loading the Unit page, so I was mystified by the breakup. MPM2008

:If the Unit gets more seasons down the road with 10 times more guns, then I'll happily break it up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

::Here's hoping someone wises up and gives us a couple more seasons. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Small size caps? ==

Who turned all my caps from my standard 500x to this small size? It's ungodly small for a page like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::I think the user thought that shrinking the thumbnails would speed up the loading time. It doesn't. The page still has to re-size whatever the size of the original image is. Also IMFDB's standard is 500px or 600px (for ultra widescreen or high resolution shots). Again we still need a rules page, to tell the new users what the page standards are. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==Breaking up pages (cont.)==
If you go into the edit page, it gives a warning that the page is over 32kb and recommends that it should be broken up into different pages, but it looks like you want to keep it the way it is. So go ahead and delete the page with just the pistols on it. [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]
:It's at 42kb. Not much larger than recommended. Miami Vice was at 93kb, before it was broken up. Season 1 and 2 are at 40kb apiece. Load time is not bad on The Unit. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Then I'll get rid of unnecessary gun caps. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

:Is the Season 4 DVD box art really necessary? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, because I put it up as a featured article. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

==CM203 entry added==
I just got Season 4 on DVD, so I figured I'd jump at the chance and get caps of those Cobrays used in S4E7/8. I only took caps of them in episode 7, though, as I figured that was sufficient enough documentation for the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Like all armories for film and TV series, these would most likely be Cobray 37mm flare launchers that were designed to look like M203s. This is a common practice to have the appearance of 203s. It is unlikely any of the M203s seen in the series are real M203s.

:While that could be the case, the second picture of Blane show that it is an M203, the the C37. But, with the advancement of m203s and RIS systems, a soldier could simply slide on an m203. So, it could also be an airsoft replica if its never fired. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:The only episodes I recall seeing Cobrays in are S4E7/8. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

== Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol ==

In the story. Jonas took 2 of these out as a hidden weapon that he kept within a rat trap. He handed on to is wife before he made a disappearing act. I guess in story it's supposed to resemble a Walther TP or TPH.

''I don't know dude...these look a lot like the Walther PP or PPK to me. If these images are from the episode I am thinking of (the finale of Season 1) my reaction, at the time, was "why is Joans carrying such a weak ass pistol as his sidearm???".''

''Nah, the Walthers don't have that little extra piece of metal extending from the trigger guard to the barrel. But, then again...''
:It looks like a Walther PSM. It's like a PPK but with an extended trigger guard. Hammer looks like it too. -GM
::''What is a Walther PSM? Did you mean Walther TP or TPH? PSM is a Russian pistol made by Izhevsk.

::That is a '''Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol'''. I just checked the lower image against the one I have. Brixia Arms used to make this type of blank gun about 10 years ago, but their quality was pretty bad. There 'might' be some available, but the majority of the 8mm theatrical blank firing PPKs on the market now are made by '''Kimar''' or '''Voltran'''. What tips it off, is the writing on the slide (it is identical to the markings on my Brixia Nickel plated Walther PPK theatrical blank gun) and the '''hole''' drilled in the top of the barrel (where the ejection port is). This hole allows the flash from the blank round to fire '''upwards''' since the barrel is blocked. Also the magazine is a thin single stack type that only holds those skinny 8mm blank rounds. ____[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

==M60E4==
I put this pic here because I think it's copyrighted.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Unit-MG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

== number 3 biggest? ==
ok both this and stargate SG-1 page both say that they are the 3rd biggest --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 02:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The Unit is number 3, by my count there are about 40 more weapons. It's also about twice the physical size (KB) if that matters at all. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== 933 RIS? ==
What is this RIS?
[[Image:UnitAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit4164.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Looks like DD Mk.18 RIS II but I'm not sure.

Looks more like a Yankee Hill rail. [http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-Lightweight-Tactical-Free-Float-Mid-Length-p/yhm-9634%20ff%20mid.htm]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown M16 ==
I've uploaded another screencap of the M16 Bob carries in "Natural Selection."
[[Image:UnitM161.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
It's hard to tell since Scott Foley's thumb is in the way, but it appears that this rifle does not have a brass deflector, which would mean that it is not a Model 715 as has been suggested. Is there any official designation for this weapon (A1 sights, no brass deflector, A2 handguards and heavy barrel profile) or is simply a frankengun?
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:None that I know of. I've never seen or heard of that configuration before. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::It's a Franken-rifle. It has an A1 upper receiver, an SP1 lower receiver, and an A2 heavy barrel. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I'm gonna say frankengun, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Five Brothers ==

Why would the team have LAMs on their weapons in a 100% CQB op? when it would make more sense to have a tac-light?

You mean the PEQs they got attached? Maybe the missions required them to use them when they get outside. Who knows, they do this all the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

that doesnt even make sense. Beruit- a very close quarters city. why would they possible need an AN-PEQ? their guns have 10.5 inch barrels it would make sense to have a surefire tac-light. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

A flashlights best purpose is to give your position away. If shit were to hit the fan, like it did, and they had to operate at night they would be far better off if they used the IR light for illumination. And the laser for aiming assist. Personally, I'd want a visible light source on my gun, but there's no issue having a hand held on you belt or vest. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 05:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

== Every Step You Take ==
Hey guys, I was just watching The Unit Season 3 Episode 4 "Every Step You Take" and I noticed Bob passing a weapon to one of the American Embassy employees. I know that he passed his 1911 to the guy's wife and later on he passes a smaller pistol to the embassy employee. It looks like a Walther PPK but I'm not sure. Could someone help me identify it? I would upload a screencap but I'm not too sure how to. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]]

I think it's a continuity error. The scene previously showed Bob handing over his SIG to the man, but in the next scene, it turns into what looks like a PPK [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:19, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Walther ID episode==
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired ''after'' this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-23T16:23:51Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* ID weapons and episodes */

This is one of those hard series since pictures are hard to find and I'm not a master of screenshots.

I like to keep the format I've set for the photos of M4s and MP5Ks the way it is because there were a lot of photos and I think the current format for those are appealing.

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.

[[Image:UnitSig.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitSig2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:UnitSig3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Probably Hard Shots to find==
I only saw the first episode of this show and if memory serves me right, one guy went quail hunting with a pump shotgun (870 I believe) and then was held up by a man with a Mini-14 which I think had a 30 or 40 round magazine. Since the first episode isn't easy to find on the computer, I'm assuming this shot would be difficult to come by unless someone owns the first season on DVD. -GM

::That wasn't the first episode. It was another episode of the first season. I do remember that scene and will find shots of that eventually.

:Saw another episode one day were everyone was holed up in this house and one guy outside was shooting at BGs with a Browning M2 mocked up as a DShK. Sorry I can't help further but I don't watch it enough to describe further. Lot of good shots of M4A1s too. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

On the page, it said that Mack had a Kimber Warrior, can someone upload some pictures of that? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The Televised pictures of the Kimber Warrior doesnt look like a real Warrior. First, there is no laynard loop on the bottom of the grip. Second, the finish on the nose is showing some silver, and the KimPro finish doesnt wear like that. Could the show actually use a TLE/RL or maybe a SWAT edition. [[Spades of Columbia]]

TLE was used for a few seasons, then switched to the Warrior. Mack uses a normal 1911 most of the time in the newer seasons.
i do remember one episode. i dont recall the name, but i believe it was called "Stress". the one were their in africa and find a terrorist. i think Hector had one. and so did Jonas. if at all possible, can someone please add a couple of them that Mack uses them? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The SWAT custom one doesn't have the rail for optics [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Size of pics ==

I am not sure of the so called "format" of this site but I like the format of the M4 and MP5K section and how it's arranged and want to keep it that way. Also some pics are larger than others. The reason is that if they are smaller than 600 then they would look distorted. This didn't really happen in the old server. but for here I had to make them larger to they won't look so you can't seen any pixal on them. The larger size gives the photos smoother looks.

== Not a mk 12 ==

If someone has a better name to call it, then correct it. Saying it isn't something else isn't helping in identifying what the sniper rifle is.

== Eat your Hard Boiled out ==

The Unit section now beats even Hard Boiled with over 60+ guns counted

:Nice work, now I can only say that Hard Boiled is the largest movie page. To be fair though, a T.V. show can grow, a movie stays still but anyway, great work.

::Yeah, nice job. I honestly have to admit that I don't have the patience to do TV show pages just cause they tend to feature lots of guns over the course of several seasons (especially a weapons-heavy military show like ''[[The Unit]]''). Plus, I rarely buy entire seasons of TV shows.

:::Well It was hard to track down the previous season since links to them have poor connection. I had considered renting the DVDs. Either way, this show has an impressive array of firearms and it isn't stopping in what the Unit shoots next.

== Rearrange of Garand, Winchester, and SKS ==

Recently the SKS, M1 Garand and the Winchester 1886 was moved to "other weapons" because they don't fit either section of Assault rifle nor sniper rifle. Hence they would be placed in the same section as the musket rifle would be since they are dated weapons.

== That´s a L1A1 SLR ==

[[Image:UnitFAL5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
judging by the handguards and the front sight,that´s a L1A1.

:It's still a FAL

== Two nit picks... ==

The derringer that Jonas carries in while wearing the tux looks like a High Standard Derringer. These were double action, tip down, .22 magnum as opposed to the single action, tip up, .41 rimfire of the original Remington design.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SN4dXMHNTUI/AAAAAAAAAj4/z2jZ_wOCmls/s1600/High%2BStandard%2B-%2BDerringer%2BMod.%2BDM%2B101%2B-%2Bpistol%2B-%2B.22%2BMagnum.jpg

Also, the lever action noted as a Winchester 1886 looks more like a Marlin 336. The 1886's bolt occupied most of the center of the upper reciever, while the Marlin has a round bolt with the ejection port on the right side of the reciever. In the pic, you can see the silver, circular section right in front of the hammer, which is the bolt.

http://www.outdoorsurvivalinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/start1_med1.jpg

Great site, thanks for all the trouble!
Doug K

==SU-16==

The keltec su-16 page says one was used in the show and i dont see it here. Anyone know where it was used? -K9870

:I don't see an SU-16. Anyone know which episode this supposively have appeared in? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==R.I.P.==

Just read over on Imdb that [[The Unit]] has been canceled by CBS. Bummer. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:From what I can see, the cancellation hasn't been decided on yet. But piss on CBS if they do. The Unit is the only show I look forward to every week. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:CBS canceled Jericho and then they canceled The Unit. That network just sucks. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::Tell me about it. Two of the best shows in CBS history right there and they're more concerned with "reality" shows like Survivor (which, BTW, are actually filmed on sound stages and not in tropical jungles and whatnot). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== Need help ID'ing AR-15 Variant. ==

As seen here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/The_Unit#Unknown_AR-15.2FM4_Variant]]. I'm pretty sure it's not a HK416, M4, or CQBR. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Model 933, but I'm no expert on AR-15s. Any help would be much appreciated.

[[Image:UnitAR4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Looks like a 933 or equivalent to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

I guess it is. Time for another update. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

==Optics w/ BUIS an anachronism?==
How is having BUISs on an optic-equipped weapon an anachronism when military and police commonly use said combo? Hell, even the Barrett 82 has BUISs. No offense to whoever made that statement, but it's gotta be one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever read. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Wait, where is this said on the page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Originally at the top of the Colt 933 section, but it's not there anymore. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

==Breaking up pages==
This page is getting too big to add any more items. I would like to break it up into different pages, creating new pages by weapons like the page is now and linking them to the original page. Has anyone else already started this? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]

:No offense, but screw that. Why break up a page just because it has too many guns? I mean have you seen Miami Vice? Mail Call? Hard boil? Those are pretty big pages too. I don't need to break up my page so that it is easier on your eyes. It's a waste of space and all it that pistol page has done was just waste space on the server. And what do you mean "too big to add anymore items?" There's no limit on how many guns you can put on a page as long as it has been shown on the show. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::However, Miami Vice was broken up into seasons because it took too long for the page to load or it crashed completely. The Unit doesn't have that problem, so I don't see a need to break it up. I do disagree about "there being no limit to adding to a page". the Miami Vice tv show is a prime example of a page getting so big it becomes unviewable to 99% of the potential users (unless someone has lightning fast internet connection and large RAM, which most people don't have. But I have no problems loading the Unit page, so I was mystified by the breakup. MPM2008

:If the Unit gets more seasons down the road with 10 times more guns, then I'll happily break it up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

::Here's hoping someone wises up and gives us a couple more seasons. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Small size caps? ==

Who turned all my caps from my standard 500x to this small size? It's ungodly small for a page like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::I think the user thought that shrinking the thumbnails would speed up the loading time. It doesn't. The page still has to re-size whatever the size of the original image is. Also IMFDB's standard is 500px or 600px (for ultra widescreen or high resolution shots). Again we still need a rules page, to tell the new users what the page standards are. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==Breaking up pages (cont.)==
If you go into the edit page, it gives a warning that the page is over 32kb and recommends that it should be broken up into different pages, but it looks like you want to keep it the way it is. So go ahead and delete the page with just the pistols on it. [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]
:It's at 42kb. Not much larger than recommended. Miami Vice was at 93kb, before it was broken up. Season 1 and 2 are at 40kb apiece. Load time is not bad on The Unit. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Then I'll get rid of unnecessary gun caps. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

:Is the Season 4 DVD box art really necessary? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, because I put it up as a featured article. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

==CM203 entry added==
I just got Season 4 on DVD, so I figured I'd jump at the chance and get caps of those Cobrays used in S4E7/8. I only took caps of them in episode 7, though, as I figured that was sufficient enough documentation for the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Like all armories for film and TV series, these would most likely be Cobray 37mm flare launchers that were designed to look like M203s. This is a common practice to have the appearance of 203s. It is unlikely any of the M203s seen in the series are real M203s.

:While that could be the case, the second picture of Blane show that it is an M203, the the C37. But, with the advancement of m203s and RIS systems, a soldier could simply slide on an m203. So, it could also be an airsoft replica if its never fired. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:The only episodes I recall seeing Cobrays in are S4E7/8. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

== Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol ==

In the story. Jonas took 2 of these out as a hidden weapon that he kept within a rat trap. He handed on to is wife before he made a disappearing act. I guess in story it's supposed to resemble a Walther TP or TPH.

''I don't know dude...these look a lot like the Walther PP or PPK to me. If these images are from the episode I am thinking of (the finale of Season 1) my reaction, at the time, was "why is Joans carrying such a weak ass pistol as his sidearm???".''

''Nah, the Walthers don't have that little extra piece of metal extending from the trigger guard to the barrel. But, then again...''
:It looks like a Walther PSM. It's like a PPK but with an extended trigger guard. Hammer looks like it too. -GM
::''What is a Walther PSM? Did you mean Walther TP or TPH? PSM is a Russian pistol made by Izhevsk.

::That is a '''Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol'''. I just checked the lower image against the one I have. Brixia Arms used to make this type of blank gun about 10 years ago, but their quality was pretty bad. There 'might' be some available, but the majority of the 8mm theatrical blank firing PPKs on the market now are made by '''Kimar''' or '''Voltran'''. What tips it off, is the writing on the slide (it is identical to the markings on my Brixia Nickel plated Walther PPK theatrical blank gun) and the '''hole''' drilled in the top of the barrel (where the ejection port is). This hole allows the flash from the blank round to fire '''upwards''' since the barrel is blocked. Also the magazine is a thin single stack type that only holds those skinny 8mm blank rounds. ____[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

==M60E4==
I put this pic here because I think it's copyrighted.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Unit-MG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

== number 3 biggest? ==
ok both this and stargate SG-1 page both say that they are the 3rd biggest --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 02:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The Unit is number 3, by my count there are about 40 more weapons. It's also about twice the physical size (KB) if that matters at all. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== 933 RIS? ==
What is this RIS?
[[Image:UnitAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit4164.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Looks like DD Mk.18 RIS II but I'm not sure.

Looks more like a Yankee Hill rail. [http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-Lightweight-Tactical-Free-Float-Mid-Length-p/yhm-9634%20ff%20mid.htm]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown M16 ==
I've uploaded another screencap of the M16 Bob carries in "Natural Selection."
[[Image:UnitM161.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
It's hard to tell since Scott Foley's thumb is in the way, but it appears that this rifle does not have a brass deflector, which would mean that it is not a Model 715 as has been suggested. Is there any official designation for this weapon (A1 sights, no brass deflector, A2 handguards and heavy barrel profile) or is simply a frankengun?
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:None that I know of. I've never seen or heard of that configuration before. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::It's a Franken-rifle. It has an A1 upper receiver, an SP1 lower receiver, and an A2 heavy barrel. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I'm gonna say frankengun, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Five Brothers ==

Why would the team have LAMs on their weapons in a 100% CQB op? when it would make more sense to have a tac-light?

You mean the PEQs they got attached? Maybe the missions required them to use them when they get outside. Who knows, they do this all the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

that doesnt even make sense. Beruit- a very close quarters city. why would they possible need an AN-PEQ? their guns have 10.5 inch barrels it would make sense to have a surefire tac-light. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

A flashlights best purpose is to give your position away. If shit were to hit the fan, like it did, and they had to operate at night they would be far better off if they used the IR light for illumination. And the laser for aiming assist. Personally, I'd want a visible light source on my gun, but there's no issue having a hand held on you belt or vest. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 05:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

== Every Step You Take ==
Hey guys, I was just watching The Unit Season 3 Episode 4 "Every Step You Take" and I noticed Bob passing a weapon to one of the American Embassy employees. I know that he passed his 1911 to the guy's wife and later on he passes a smaller pistol to the embassy employee. It looks like a Walther PPK but I'm not sure. Could someone help me identify it? I would upload a screencap but I'm not too sure how to. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]]

I think it's a continuity error. The scene previously showed Bob handing over his SIG to the man, but in the next scene, it turns into what looks like a PPK [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:19, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown S&W pistol ==
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
[[Image:UnitS&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:UnitS&W-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Which episode is this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== Whiplash ==

I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??

== Makarov "Kirovsky?" ==

In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== ID weapons and episodes ==

Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
[[Image:Unitgun8.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unitgun9.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.

Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
[[Image:Unit 724.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]
[[Image:Unit 725.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
[[Image:Unit 719.jpg|none|thumb|400px]]

I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:To Hell and Back

2010-08-19T21:11:38Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Page Reworked */

==Two magazines taped together==
I always thought or assumed taping two mags together came from Vietnam. But considering Murphy does it in a 1955 film, that disproves what I thought (Murphy probably must have did it also in WWII). I can't think of any other WWII films that shows this being done. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
:I have seen photos of GI's taping three mags together for the M3 Grease Gun and Thompson. Also the OSS welded two mags together on their UD42 SMG in France. -[[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]] 16:19, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
::Lee Marvin also did it in the Dirty Dozen. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:43, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

==Page Reworked==
I have re-uploaded the images from [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]] with the proper type of screenshot image names. Removed was some excess images and the use of the weapon nomenclature as image name. Credit for the images originally uploaded by [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]] have been labeled as his. --[[User:Phoenixent|phoenixent]] 15:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I doubt this is important in any way but the 3rd Thompson picture isnt Murphy. its Brandon. as i recall Pfc.Brandon was lefty, and also Murphy at one point says to him "Gimme back my thompson." i believe they switched weapons because Murphy was running around. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 21:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Medal of Honor (2010)

2010-08-17T20:54:20Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Ugh... */

==New Sidearms confirmed!==
New article reviled.

SF has a Glock.
Ranger has the M9.
And someone we havent seen named Rabbit Has a Sig. Navy Seal im guessing

"When you play as "Rabbit" you carry a Sig. When you play as "Deuce" you carry a Glock. And when you are Dante Adams you carry the M9. These weapons can never be dropped, never run out of ammunition, and are an integral part of each character’s identity. The variety in these side arms is also intended to help give distinction and personality to each of the characters represented in "Neptune", "Wolfpack" and 1/75th Ranger"
:I have two things to say about that. One, I'm happy I wont have to look at an M9 throughout the campaign. Two, I hope they allow you to pick which pistol you use in mp since it'd effectively wouldn't change the balance at all. Just allow more individualism to the players. Did I mention I'm really tired of seeing the M9 in my games?
::Forgive Beretta if they've created one of the most successful pistols of all time, and it happens to be used by the U.S. military. So...I think either you should go design a new gun to replace it, or just live with it. Unless of course you want them to have the U.S. standard sidearm be an HK P30 just to be 'original'.

:Like most games the handguns will have different powers even if they're the same caliber, I'm betting. At least in Multiplayer anyways. Because in the level up screen you can see a level up sidearm section. And I'm hopeing only pistol are sidearms. Unlike modern 2 which had Shotguns and Machine pistols, which unbalanced the game

:You DO remember the first Modern Warfare where you can have TWO primary weapons on you, that's even worse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:54, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::Actually, MoH gives you two primaries and your secondary. Which actually isn't as bad as most would think. Some operators use a shotgun and their AR, and I'm sure having an SMG, a pistol and an M4 wouldn't be too bad, since I did it once for a test of my webgear for a review. Also, it's possible they could just use the different pistol models as just that, models. Same stats, but different appearance. --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 05:05, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

If you really think about it, having 2 Primaries on you, plus your sidearm is just too much. Maybe for a shotgun, but even then. You'd have 3 sets of reloads and it's already heavy on you. The only times An operator needs a shotgun alongside his rifle is that he needs to breach a door and no one else has a shotgun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:23, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I agree with ya about the having 3 different reloads, but depending on the weapons, the weight isn't so bad, or at least less noticeable. Anyway, it really could be worse. They could have you carrying two different types of rocket launchers and a machine gun like you can do in the Halo series.
:At least they're making it so that you don't ditch a pistol two seconds into a level. I've always hated how any sidearm looses all use less than a minute into a game.--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 06:01, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Am I the only one here distressed by the ''unlimited ammo'' aspect of the sidearms? This game is getting to be more and more ridiculous as it is. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:26, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

: Remember MW2 ? 400 rounds was total standard. And there isnt any true difference between ''unlimited'' and 400.

I liked it back when you can keep your sidearm and just pick up another primary. Sure it's a bit unrealistic to be carrying the max ammo for that gun, but not as unrealistic as dropping your handgun for a shotgun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:40, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Where was it shown you get two primarys? Pretty sure its one primary and sidearm. Ive never seen or read about that in this game.

==Knife?==

I watched the "Leave a Message" trailer recently. I think one of the Rangers had a Gerber LMF II knife attached to his MOLLE vest. I own this same knife which is why it caught my eye.
:Maybe so, but we need to avoid putting knives down. Yes, the MW2 page as well as some others have knives, but I'm in favor of removing said knives from said pages entirely. The site is called Internet Movie '''Firearms''' Database for a reason. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:00, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

==beta release date?==

When will 360 beta be out? I keep hearing within a week but have seen no announcements by the company.
:http://twitter.com/medalofhonor
:http://twitter.com/pottan

Both links failed, and im getting pissed waiting, gives you high hopes for the games multiplayer when a short beta is this delayed......

I heard somewhere they're going to run it after they fix the bugs from the PS3/PC Betas, after they're done, because it will allow them to find new problems and because it saves money. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:38, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

==weapon balance==

i just saw the 12 round beretta mentioned i think they did that for balance reasons. Another game too focused on fairness. God forbid you unlock a gun later on that just owns.

-k9870

Yeah its kind of annoying when its that balanced, at least you could pretend its the .40, but I wouldn't even know what to do with the Grach, its named the Tariq (which is something else) and has 12 rounds too, when its supposed to have 17. Wait, couldn't they both just have been 16 to be in between? If I WAS going to make an overly balanced system like this, I'd try to make it close, why take them both down to 12? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:38, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
::Pretend it's the .40 too

Haha too bad there isn't one... WAIT! If you really want to stretch it you could pretend its the compact MP-448, 12 rounds of 9x18mm lol :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I hate when the do something like "the m4 has 20 power and 30 fire rate, the AK has 30 power and 20 fire rate, so there balanced. Then they go weapon x is more accurate than weapon y since its weaker and needs an advantage. I wish when you leveled up you had guns with good advantages that just own.

-k9870

I want a game that keeps the round in the chamber, keeps track of your extra mags (not the one big number bullshit), all the functions to be right, none of the guns to be set in a firing mode they're not in, the ability to switch modes to whatever that weapon has, the correct attachments (no AKs with ACOGs, or M14s and G3s with M203s), the correct animations for reloads, correct fire rates, correct mag capacities, correct zooms on scopes and no zoom on reflex sights/irons sights, its not really too much to ask I don't think. The only thing that would be arguable would be damage stuff does, but for the MOST part if you used the calibre measurement as the damage it would work (i.e. 5.56mm does about 22 damage, 7.62mm does 30, .50 does 50) it's not perfect but I at least want the guns with the same calibres to do the same damage... Rant done. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:38, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:There is a game for you, it's called ArmA. Mainstream arcadey FPS won't have all these features. But I agree at least counting bullet up the pipe would be nice touch. That always bugged me too. I have no idea why CoD games still doesn't have this. Anyway, ACOG (or any other weaver optic) on AK is not a problem via special mount. 203 on G3 and M14 is possible too.

Oh believe me, I wouldn't need ALL that, I still play the mainstream FPSs, it would just be nice, I just kept going with the list ;) And I do know you can technically put an ACOG on an AK or a 203 on the M14 or G3, but it would be nice to see the things that are supposed to be there... there, like the HK79. The attachments thing certainly wouldn't be as important to me as the round in the chamber, and I don't think guns of the same calibre having the same damage would be too much, its not that would take any extra effort... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:Same caliber doesn't always do same damage when shot from different barrels. M16 and M4 is a good example. In case with M16 bullet tumble and fragment thus making more damage, but when the same ammo shot from M4 it does not.

I knew that but didn't want to make my posts too long ;)That's fair, I meant more the stuff that doesn't make sense, like a 12 gauge that does more damage than another 12 gauge because it's pump action vs semi-auto, or like in Modern Warfare 2, which is the game I'm mostly complaning about, the F2000 has a 15.7" barrel and does 30 damage, while the TAR-21 has an 18.1" does 40, I know the idea of damage as a numerical system like this isn't realistic in a lot of ways, but it's the best anyone has been able to come up with so far, and I wouldn't think 2.4 inches of barrel would make that much of a difference. Put it this way, out of the 9 assault rifles in that game there are only 3 different damages, the 30, 40, and 55, keep in mind that the calibres here are 5.56, 7.62, and 7.62 NATO: the M4, ACR, and F2000 do 30, the FAMAS, SCAR, TAR-21, M16A4, and AK-47 do the same (lol what?) at 40, and the FAL does a whopping 55 (because its semi). But the single worst is the UMP and Super V, both .45s with a comparible barrel length, the UMP does 40 (again) and the the Super V does... 25. I know there should be differences but this makes NO SENSE. Sorry, I know this is the Medal Of Honor page, but everyone here seems smarter... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:34, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not a simulator. They needed to differentiate gun's performance. Besides, most people playing it doesn't know shit which caliber it shoots. So probably it's better to just get over it. Try playing hardcore mode and weapon damage won't bother you so much.

I know :) it doesn't really matter too much, it would just be nice, but I'm not expecting it though lol [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:40, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

seriously, no 1911 very disapointing. it might be outdated but Special Forces still use them. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:11, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Who said there won't be a 1911 in the final game? This isn't the final game. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:45, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
i dont know. i just figured since its not on the page already they wouldnt have it. but i hope they do. its a great gun and is used by Spec Ops. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:46, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
i think that all the comparisons come from MW2 because it has an overwhelming amount of flaws. for example- what has been previously stated. and does anyone else find it peculiar that all assault rifles lose the front sight when optics are attached? knowone would do that its stupid. what if there was a long battle and you ran out of battery on a dime, nope your dead now. and i kind of agree with the lack of a back sight because it takes away the point of the reflex being quick if you have to line 3 things to a target instead of the 1-2 or a normal rifle.

==First Part==

This game looks very promising in terms of realism and graphics compared to the other games. I'm excited to see that the game developers are working with REAL special forces operators. The game comes out in Fall 2010. CAN'T FREAKIN WAIT!!!!!!- ArmoredMason619

I've always had a soft spot with this series. I really hope they knock it out of the park with this one.

I'm guessing the guy on the front cover is a Green Beret?-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

:For some reason I though the guy on the front page was a PMC --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Na he is a Green Beret. That's the way they look when they are in a combat zone. They have to grow out a beard and dress like the civilians/insurgents in that particular area.-ArmoredMason619

A World War II shooter series is switching to a modern setting? It'll never work.
:Your kidding right...and sign your posts --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The graphics appear to be on par with ''[[America's Army 3]]'', though hopefully it'll have less problems and a better weapon selection. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The trailer had what looked like an [[FN Minimi#M249-E1 / M249-E2 / M249 Paratrooper SAW|M249 SAW]] variant fitted with an EOTech red dot sight, but I only saw it for a second looking down the sights in first-person mode so couldn't determine wether it was a standard SAW or specialized version like the Paratrooper or [[FN Minimi#FN Minimi SPW|SPW]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I added a screen of the M4A1 and the Minimi/SAw possibilty. --[[User:TheCrazyGunNut|TheCrazyGunNut]]

Ah, cheap EA.. This is so obvious that they are doing this because of MW success. Won't buy just because of this fact.

Or because WWII has been overdone and they wanted to do something else. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

20th century saw so many wars. They could pick any one. The most suitable would be Vietnam war. I can't recall many good games about this conflict. It could be about SF also.

How about Vietcong? http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Vietcong In my personal oppinion the best PC game from Vietnam conflict up to date. I know that the Vietcong wasn't perfect but other games usually wasted their potential (e.g. Conflict Vietnam, Men of Valor) ended as a low quality budget (first Shellshock 67 and many others) or as some crazy VC/NVA-zombie kill fest (recent Shellshock 2).

I agree that there were many other "interesting" conflicts or suitable theathers for FPS games but "supply is influenced by demand". The "anti-terrorist" theme is actual and developers don't want to risk introducing a game that "nobody would want to play". Remember it's all about the money. Actually it's quite strange that if I look backwards I can't recall any good or partially realistic FPS from Afganistan or Iraq theatre - Modern Warefare, appart from other parts of the story, was set partialy in the Middle East but in some fictisious country (and that *** spoliler *** nuking of the whole Marine division *** spoiler *** was complete bullshit) and Modern Warefare 2 was about hunting down some crazy Russian ultranationalists (and *** spoiler *** one rouge American general *** spoiler *** that was bullshit as well). No offence to Call of Duty but I personally hope that Medal of Honor would not turn into such killfest of stupid AI NPC duchebags thrown in absolutely ridiculous waves into a single coridor where you have to kill more than 70 opponents on less than 100 square feet ...

:::Wow, so doing something original is bullshit? I mean, come on; I'd rather shoot 70 guys in a single cooridor than simply go from cave to cave, shooting the occasional militant, or riding about in my vehicle until I hit a bomb and get ambushed. Generic examples I know, but put simply, fighting a military-trained, fully-equipped soldier is a lot more exciting than some fanatical militant using 30-year-old weapons. Heck, even America's Army created a fictional enemy for the US Army to fight.

Judging by what I'm seeing in the trailer this is going to be far from any CoD style of modern warfare. This shit looks seriously hardcore in terms of trying to replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay. I guess only time will tell. Hopefully by then they fix the damn gas block thing. Fuck that pisses me off. These guys are working with tier 1 operators but they don't want to model the damn gun correctly. Anybody with even slight knowledge of an AR-15 platform would notice this error. It's a big frickin error.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:::"replicate actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay"? So coalition forces playing in a sandbox there? And duh, there is a gas-block, it's just too low-profile and you cannot see it.

::::Even if the gas block isn't there, does it really matter? The average gamer probably doesn't know, or care, what a gas block is, let alone whether it's actually there or not; and the Medal of Honor series goes for what looks cool (such as the Flak Tower in Airborne), not what's realistic.

Don't change the intent of my words. Let me rephrase :::"replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan fighting into gameplay." There happy? As well the use of a low profile gas block seems like an excuse. What are the chances that every M4 has a low profile gas block when there are attached optics?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:::Why not? It's a game about hi-speed low-drag tear1 omfgd3ltasealz special forces operators.
::::That's ''Tier'' 1. And even a low-profile gas block would still be visible on the barrel where the standard FSP would be due to the length of the gas tube. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

North American release date is October 12, 2010. Europe is October 15.-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFpgNJZ8Fhc&playnext_from=TL&videos=vd-xeQ7FyHw
^ At 0:56, 1:04, 1:16 you can see a stock, body, and barrel of a M14 EBR.
At O:43 you can see what I believe to be some kind of M240.*EDIT: Mk 46 Mod 0*
All along the trailer are M4s with optics and different accessories. -DeltaOp
:Was the Mark 14 EBR even fielded yet in 2002? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

- Nope. EBR was designed around that date - 2001/2002 but first units (mostly from Navy Seals) were issued this rifle later on in 2004. So it's probably another game inaccuracy.

Who said it was set in 2002? And the gas block isn't removed for optics like in Call Of Duty, it's removed when the M203's flip up sight is on top, I'm thinking it's not to block that, not that I think it would block it, but that's when it's not there, not because of optics. EDIT: Wow my bad, it is set then, and I was thinking the M203 was an attachment, but its fixed on like in BFBC2, wow, I feel dumb lol. EDIT #2: I figured it out, the M16 removes the front sight for optics, but the M4 doesn't. Odd. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

== Green Beret on cover ==
It's ''Cowboy''! [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/12/03/news-bearded-guy-on-medal-of-honor-cover-is-real.aspx] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:Lmao. Oh i didnt think of that one. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Anyone think its kinda odd that the Rangers seem to be doing alot of the work. along with the Green Beret. Wouldnt Delta Force/Navy SEALs be doing most of the stuff?

1st SFOD-D and Navy SEALs are, let's say, "equal" to Special Forces concerning their roles within US SOCOM. They are highly trained operators used for specific and "delicate" stuff. Rangers are more like muscless used for more "dirty" tasks. In reality, you would rather send a Special Forces A-Team to do cool things like - to recon the enemy airfield, to pin point potential high-value targets, to set observation post for calling CAS missions or to set sniping posts with 18B class operators with sniper rifles; while few C-130s packed with Ranger chalks would wait to "go-order" so they can jump in, do all the hard work and blow the enemy to pieces. Special Forces (Delta/SEALs etc.) are too valuable for such things. Even though, they are capable of kicking some serious ass, it is not practical to "mass" several A- or SEAL teams for a task, which bunch of Ranger squads could do better.[Ragnar]

okay thats true, but i just dont see why there wouldnt be SOME Operators or SEALs, think about this. Rangers are like the backbone of USSOCOM, Green Berets, are trained in Reconaissance, but if u want to kick some serious Taliban ass, u send in Operators or SEALs, because they excel at kickin' the door down, and opening up some whoop-ass. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:40, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
:Who is the "Operators"?
::Delta "Operators". [[User:Pz.Abt.100|Pz.Abt.100]] 22:40, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

but really, i no Delta is more of a mission specific unit, but seriously what is America's best military asset? 1stSFOD-D. why? because they have close to 500 Operators, the best in the world. and officially they dont exist. political bull shit in the way, no problemo. they dont exist. its denieble if you send them in.[[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 19:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

== Guns revealed in multi-player demo at E3 ==
(These are just what I could spot while watching it on TV)
*Beretta 92FS/M9 (not a 92SB like in CoD, had the squared-off trigger guard)
*Pump-action shotgun I couldn't identify (they only showed it from the back)
*Bolt-action sniper rifle, presumably a Remington M24 (only saw it from the back and right side as the player was working the bolt)
*Not actually a new gun, but the M4A1 also had a low-profile front BUIS mounted on the RIS is some scenes
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

If you check the kill feed immediately after the kill with the sniper rifle, the identifies the unknown rifle as a Sako M57. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I found some footage: http://videos.pcgames.de/v/MuuqC3iXMpw/Medal-of-Honor/Multiplayer-Gameplay-E3-2010/ (the shotgun is a TOZ-194)

More confirmed weapons. I recommend you keep your eye to the left of the screen, below the radar, to see some weapons we have missed while watching the video.

RPK-Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

RPG 7-In-game footage

AK-47-Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

AT-4 (I think by the ingame footage)

M9- From ingame footage

SVD Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M249 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

TT-30 Seen ingame

MP7A1 This one was very hard to see (Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M-21 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

870MCS Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

M60 Can be seen as a weapon that killed the player on the screen (look left of gameplay)

== List ==
I'm gonna put all the ones I've seen down, so we've got one big list (this is all from the 11 minute long multiplayer video, both seen on screen and on the killfeed) If the names are given (killfeed ones) I'm writing them exactly as they are named in game. For the ones that aren't named I'll name them what they are.

M16

M203

AK-47

GP-30

M249

PKM

M4

AKS-74u

870MCS

TOZ-194

AT4

RPG-7

M21

SVD (NOTE: Has a straight .308 magazine)

M24

SV-98

M9

MP-443 (NOTE: Appears as the Tariq, which I thought that was an Iraqi-made Beretta clone...)

(From here down is not in the Beta)

RPK

MP7A1

M240

M60

M14 EBR (Seen in other videos. It is NOT the same as the M21 like it is in certain other games, the M21 has a normal M21 type body and stock, BOTH are in this.) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==Spliting into sections ==
Wont it make sence to make two sections ? One with MP´s guns and one with SP´s guns. I think it will - because they dont use same engine, so guns can be different.

Why would the single player and multiplayer use different engines? That makes no sense. It would make the modelers have to model everything twice, and take up twice as much space on disc. No. We're not going to do that.-protoAuthor 19:35, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

: It '''USES''' different engines. MP is running on frostbite, and SP is running on UT3 one.

Not sure if i'm doing this right, but yes it uses different engines, and the modelers do not have to model everything twice, they can easily import it from a common format to both engine's formats, PSK Mesh (or something) for UT3, and a new version of bundledmesh contained in RES files for frostbite. You don't have to model it twice, you just export within both engines.

:It still makes no sense to split up the page. But thank you for enlightening me to something that still makes no sense to me. Why would they do that?-protoAuthor 16:54, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The only reason i could possibly see would be to make a comparable multiplayer experience for BFBC2 players, And they might have already started building singleplayer on the unreal engine, which most if not all of the previous MoH games used. In my opinion, it shouldn't be split either, means some firearms would be listed twice. btw this isn't the original poster, this is the guy from the post before proto's last.

: Ok than. It doesnt have to be split, but there should be atlest writed to each screenshot " This is from Multiplayer/ Singleplayer". And just one little '''BTW''': They modelled it twice. As you can see, M4 or MK46 '''''HAVE''''' different models.

That's because the M4 and Mk. 46 are different guns, silly.-protoAuthor 04:00, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Heh. I mean that M4 looks different in SP and MP. Same with Mk.46

They do look different but I think its just because one sets from that first trailer a while ago, game's graphics always get better as develpment keeps going, but you might be right to, I was just throwing that out there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:00, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== LMG Special Weapons ==

In the sniper class you get C4, in the special ops class you get a rocket, and with an assault rifle in the rifleman class you get a launcher... so what do you get if you equip an LMG? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:56, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

more ammo?

:Absolutely nothing. You have 2 spare 150 round mags (in the beta, with the PK).
::You have self-destruct vest.

Is that a joke or can you actually be a suicide bomber, cause what would the American gunners get? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:14, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:C4

It is then? Okay cool, I figured but I wasn't sure, I can't check because the 360 beta was delayed :( [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:37, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
== Best of 3 shooters? ==

I have to say, out of the 3 FPS games that will be coming out in Q4 (this one, Spec Ops: The Line, and CoD: Black Ops), I am looking forward to Medal of Honor the most. From what I've seen about the other two, they look like they're filled with sensationalist b.s. . -Any Mouse

:MoH looks WAY to much like Bad Company 2, and I think it's EAs fault. They want to capitalize on the modern warfare craze so much, they're using another popular series to boost sales. To be honest, MOH looks like BC2 with Taliban, and I'll most likely not be getting it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Medal of honor is not going to be way too much like BC2 because the gameplay will be much more tactical and realistic. Like real modern warfare.

:Says you man. Face it, it's going to be bought by the same type of people who buy MW2 and BC2, mostly idiot kids ranging from 10 to 15 who just wanna get four man sprays and noob tubes across the map. This is a console FPS that can be bought by anyone, and has nothing to offer that will make it overly unique, so it will end up like MW2 and BC2, noob weapons will arise, and it will just be another chaotic FPS. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:You got a point there.

Spec Ops: the Line is a third person shooter, not an FPS.

Sorry, my bad. I thought it was one of those deals like Fallout 3 where you could switch from first-to-third-person and back -Any Mouse

== Animations ==

I know this is off-topic, but am I the only one bothered by the way your character moves? If a gun is bouncing around in your hands while you move like that, there's gotta be something wrong...

I think that only happens in multiplayer due to it being a different engine, but yeah it is weird

I was really psyched about the game untill i found out it was made by the people who made BF-BD2. you said it was a different engine. does that mean that it will be different creators or what? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:04, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Mp is made by BC2 (''not BD2'' ) creators - DICE. So it means only good part on that game will be SP - developed by EA on UT3 engine.

== Full Auto M16A4 ==

Wouldn't having an M16A4 on full auto make it a C7A1? I know there are a few other differences, but they're all internal, it's the only difference visible in some way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:23, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

:Well I would have said M16A3, but those didn't have rails. So yes, the only M16 variant that has an RIS system and goes full-auto is the C7A2, so indeed this new game uses a C7. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::M16A4 with FA lower - what could be easier

:Personally, I wouldn't call "full-auto" M16A4 a C7A2. C7A2 has some, more or less significant, differences - e.g. ambidextrous fire selector or retractable stock. Plus Canadian military did not use full length RIS systems (e.g. like King Arms M5 on M16A4) on their C7s. Full-auto M16A4 is just another game-developer inaccuracy created by lack of knowledge about firearms. Unfortunately, it's a trend in nowadays mainstream FPS like Modern Warfare or Battlefield Bad Company. Game developers just give a sh*t about this stuff. 13-year-old kids screaming and b*tching in multiplayer would not notice the difference. [Ragnar]
:: 3-burst is for nubs that can't cut it by themselves.

::The M5 RAS on the M16A4 is made by KAC, not King Arms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:33, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Of course I realize that having it full auto is just a screw up, like in most movies, and I'm not talking about the C7A2, with the green furniture and ambi controls, I meant the C7A1, which is the same in terms of appearance. Here's one without an ELCAN, because I know someone will complain about that:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/7/76/20080716042205!C7A1_with_IronSights.JPG
Oh and you can put the KAC Rails on any M16-length AR, so that's not really an issue, some of the C7A1s (like the one pictured) had them put on before the C7A2 was introduced with the TRIAD. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:22, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:It could be a C7, but really, it's just EA's lack of knowledge about weapons, cause full auto is what every assault rifle shoots, right? Man, games like Call of Duty 4 tried their best to keep weapons accurate, now it's all about tacticool weapons that fire full auto and have cool sights and nice finishes. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah I know, and guns don't need to be re-chambered after they run empty too :p in this and Bad Company 2, it's kind of distracting when I'm playing to be honest, well, I've gotten used to it a little more by now. Okay what I don't get is why can't it be listed as a C7A1? Or at least mentioned... If there was an gun listed as an M4 (not A1) and it was firing full auto you guys would have no problem saying it's actually an M4A1, or an AK-47 is really an AKM, so why can't the M16 really be a C7? I realize it's just a mistake on the developer's part, but that doesn't stop us pointing out the other ones... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:56, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think it would be a good idea if we mentioned that in reality, this would class it as a C7A1 etc. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 18:26, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Has there even ever been any instances of a burst-firing M4 used in any movie or video game? At any rate, I think just noting that it's inaccurately portrayed as full auto is enough. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:43, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well if you talk to the Green Beret on Deadliest Warrior, he'll tell you the M4 can go burst AND full auto! But yeah, just classify the M16 in MOH as a C7A1, cause in reality that's what it is. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/1009334.page
Best 5 minutes of my life reading this! [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:01, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

''Well if you talk to the Green Beret on Deadliest Warrior, he'll tell you the M4 can go burst AND full auto!'' - Believe it or not, 4-position selectors for AR-15 type rifles exist. There should be a link to the patent in the Season 2 discussion. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 22:44, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

The so-called "Green Berets" on that show were idiot actors who didn't do their research, so I don't really give a crap about what they say. The M4A1 as used by the US military is safe/semi/auto, no burst. 4-pos selectors may exist, but the US military does not use them. That also wasn't an answer my question. ''Have there ever been any instances of a burst-firing M4 used in any movie or video game?'' By "burst-firing M4", I mean the M4 with M16A2/A4 trigger group as issued en mass to regular US Army troops. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I only know of two games that have M4s with the A2/A4 trigger group. There's one of the Call of Duty Modern Warfare games for the Nintendo DS, and then there's the Battlefield 2 mod [[Project Reality]], where it features both burst-firing M4s for the Americans and full-auto M4A1s for the Israelis.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:58, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Thank you, that ''did'' answer my question. Also, lol @the thread on EA Forums. That was a pretty entertaining read. Though I quite disagree with the guy who claims you can't know anything about an M16 or other firearm without having handled or used one. I've never handled an M16, but I still know the difference between an A1, A2, A3, and A4. Good thing I quit bothering with that place within the first few days I registered, otherwise I'd probably be ankle-deep in that ****storm. XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:52, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
:::To Hoot471, that forum nearly gave me a headsplosion, how can people be so unbelievably ignorant and stupid?! - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Hi-Def MP videos ==

You guys might want to check this out: On YouTube, there's someone by the name of deluxe345 who has Hi-Definition videos from the Medal of Honor multiplayer (there are 3 or 4). Also, in one of these videos, I spotted an M224 mortar in the killfeed.

==360 Beta?==
Alright, does anyone on Earth have a clue when the 360 beta for this comes out!? PS3 and PC went up June 21st, and yet 360 is still delayed, anyone got a clue? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I got deployed for deepwater horizon so no vid games till september. I seriously wish that the release had been on time, I could have played it.

==Clip/Magazine==
A frivolous debate, but why oh why must they call the magazines "clips" in the game? Yuck. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I don't know why, but the same error happened in an episode in Lois & Clark. They probably got confused with clips and magazines since that they are both similar. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 19:02, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

There is nothing similar between a clip and a magazine. A Magazine is a block that stores the bullets, a clip is a strip of metal that holds the bullets that are then FED into a Magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:44, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

They could have said the slang term "mag" though.

=="The Catalyst" Linkin Park song trailer==

Well, there gave been some new guns spotted and i already identified few of them. But can someone help me with this ?
[[Image:MOHUNKNOWNGUN.JPG|500px|thumb|center|]]

Magazine seems to wide and big for 5.56. I truly need help with this.

Could it be the 417 ?

I'm pretty sure the MP5 is shown at one point in the trailer. I'd have to look at the trailer again to find the exact point, but I'll update when I do find the time stamp. Lets hope we see the MP5 in multiplayer as well as the campaign if my spot is correct. Also, I'm pretty sure the picture shown above is just the M4A1, but I'm not 100%. --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 22:33, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
1:30 seconds in, on the operator's chest. I am pretty sure that's an MP5A3 or A5. Can anyone confirm? --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 23:22, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:That's M4 or might be h&k 416. Clip is just taped. Also, all this specop theme became too popularized after MW1. Don't like.
::It's called a Magazine or Mag. Don't like [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
:::After re-watching the video for the 17th or so time, the weapon I thought was the MP5 was just an MP7 that blended a little too well into the vest. That said, I did notice that one of the Rangers in the trailer was using an Aimpoint M68 (Comp M2) sight on his M4A1. Possibly another sight option? Who knows. I just know I'm excited for this game.

It's an M4 kitted out with an EOTech 552, KAC Free-Float RAS, PEQ-2A, and KAC broomstick. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

==Unimpressed....==

Anybody else feel unimpressed looking at this game? I mean, nothing about it really stands out to me. The firearm selection is trite and cliche, the modern military tacticool spec ops motif has been done far too much, and so has the idea of weapon customization. Honestly, when I saw this game I just kinda yawned and moved on. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 19:22, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
: About that firearms choose : So you would give terrorists XM8´s, just because its cliche in video games ? No. So why not give them weapons they use in real ?
No I wouldn't, unless a terrorist militia could plausibly get it hand's on a bunch of HK weapons. I'm just sort of sick of seeing the same stuff over and over and over. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 09:15, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:I actually see this as a good change from Modern Warfare and Bad Company rather than yet another tacticool game. Sure, most of it has been done, but so has most other games. At least its not YET another World War 2 sim.--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 20:41, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

But see, that's the whole thing. Instead of "yet another WW2 sim," it's become "yet another Spec Ops shooter." And for the record, I liked Bad Company, and I don't see how this will be any different. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 23:30, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

I am truly impressed with this game. Lets talk about it as MW2 on steroids :

:'''Much more realistic''' ('' Cmon, Russians with tavors and milita with tactical AK´s ?'' )

:'''Much better atmosphere''' ( ''That attempt to make everything cool just failed. Also enviroment wasnt the best seriously'' )

:'''Better Gameplay''' ( ''It probably wont be just about shooting thousands of enemy troops. Also helicopter. Probably even some AI will be included ?'' )

Then I better get this for my 360 then PC, cause the graphics are just as high as BC 2 so it'll mess with my PC. The Multiplayer was designed by the same guys who did Bad Company, so we see a lot of their handy work. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:42, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, comparing ANYTHING to MW2 instantly makes it better. And if what excalibur says is true, then I'm inclined to go with what everybody else has been saying and write it off as Bad Company 2 with Taliban. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 11:07, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
: We are talking about SP. MP will be BC2 clone ( ''Yeah. Same people are doing it, why not then ?'' ).. But SP will be better :P

Heavily looking forward to SP. MP might as well be called "Call of Duty: Bad Company 8".

Oh yeah, I'd certainly be willing to try the single player if it looks any good. Not sure if I'd pay full release price for it though, I'll probably go out and buy it later on when it gets down to like 40 bucks. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 14:27, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I just find it odd that they'd get a completely different group to do the multiplayer and when you look at the multiplayer, it feels like MW2 but with a different game engine. The point and level up system is essentially the same, but the classes are almost the same from Bad Company. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:29, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, I had high hopes for this game, but with the "Catalyst" trailer (overly dramatic acting plus ear-bleeding Linkin Park= FAIL), it just looks like something else that fanboys will be able to wax their carrots to. Ain't no way in hell I'm shelling out $60 just to hear some USI-infested teenager (whose gamertag is [USMC]"xxSwaggaSniperxx" or something else that sounds mall ninja-ish) cuss me out after I've killed him twice in a row.[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]]

I watched said trailer and completely gave up on this game. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 09:12, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. After this, we're gonna hear a bunch of kids running around yelling "yaaah I am teh Tier 1!" Methinks that some top dog at EA got a boner after reading Sean Naylor's ''Not a Good Day to Die'' and got the idea to rehash a great book and dumb it down into a cheap vidya game.[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 22:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov ==
Where did it come from that the NDM-86 is in 7.62x51mm? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:16, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
: Oh, wait, what ?
::Look at the mag in the weapon selection screen shot. It's clearly not the Dragunov's standard mag and a straight 7.62x51mm mag. I agree with whoever did the change that it's the NDM-86. --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 13:16, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, i have done it. And it doesnt have anything to do with 7.62x51, its actually standart .308 winchester. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Last I checked, the .308 was the civilian version of the 7.62 NATO. So in other words, it's the same round for the purposes of this discussion. Don't mean to sound rude or anything, just something to think about. --[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 14:32, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: ( ''Wow, so many "''':'''" symbols'' ) Well, .308 is more powerfull i think. But whatever - Im glad someone agrees that NDM-86 is there. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:37, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::It's the same basic round, 7.62 NATO is just loaded to a higher pressure than civilian .308, I think. But I now see what you mean about the mag. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of Soviet-bloc weapons, whoever labeled the AK-47 as a "Type 56" may want to check the picture where the player is looking down the sights (Hint: the front sight is not fully enclosed)
: I just renamed SVD. Type 56 is someone else´s job. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Why is the AK labeled a Type 56? it has a open sight and no pig-sticker. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:49, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ugh...==

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38740099/ns/technology_and_science-games/

words cannot describe how incredibly stupid I think this is. Nobody makes a big fuss when the Taliban is put in a movie, but the SECOND people even THINK of putting it in a VIDEO GAME... I admit, I do see how people could take this the wrong way, but seriously... it's just a game. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 19:48, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

We have 'American soldiers' dying in games like Modern Warfare 2 and BC2, but no one raises a fuss. Deal with it, news outlets. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

God forbid our enemy get slandered in a video game!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:40, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

thats more political bull shit. i dont know a person in america who likes the taliban. its a game. playing as the taliban doesnt mean you like their "self-righteous" and stupid anti-american ideas. thats like saying because your playing as Spetznaz in MW2 that your being insensitive. people care when you play as talibans. but dont even mention "No Russian" [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 20:54, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-09T02:15:44Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Into Hell */

This is one of those hard series since pictures are hard to find and I'm not a master of screenshots.

I like to keep the format I've set for the photos of M4s and MP5Ks the way it is because there were a lot of photos and I think the current format for those are appealing.

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/4/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

==Probably Hard Shots to find==
I only saw the first episode of this show and if memory serves me right, one guy went quail hunting with a pump shotgun (870 I believe) and then was held up by a man with a Mini-14 which I think had a 30 or 40 round magazine. Since the first episode isn't easy to find on the computer, I'm assuming this shot would be difficult to come by unless someone owns the first season on DVD. -GM

::That wasn't the first episode. It was another episode of the first season. I do remember that scene and will find shots of that eventually.

:Saw another episode one day were everyone was holed up in this house and one guy outside was shooting at BGs with a Browning M2 mocked up as a DShK. Sorry I can't help further but I don't watch it enough to describe further. Lot of good shots of M4A1s too. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

On the page, it said that Mack had a Kimber Warrior, can someone upload some pictures of that? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The Televised pictures of the Kimber Warrior doesnt look like a real Warrior. First, there is no laynard loop on the bottom of the grip. Second, the finish on the nose is showing some silver, and the KimPro finish doesnt wear like that. Could the show actually use a TLE/RL or maybe a SWAT edition. [[Spades of Columbia]]

TLE was used for a few seasons, then switched to the Warrior. Mack uses a normal 1911 most of the time in the newer seasons.
i do remember one episode. i dont recall the name, but i believe it was called "Stress". the one were their in africa and find a terrorist. i think Hector had one. and so did Jonas. if at all possible, can someone please add a couple of them that Mack uses them? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The SWAT custom one doesn't have the rail for optics [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Size of pics ==

I am not sure of the so called "format" of this site but I like the format of the M4 and MP5K section and how it's arranged and want to keep it that way. Also some pics are larger than others. The reason is that if they are smaller than 600 then they would look distorted. This didn't really happen in the old server. but for here I had to make them larger to they won't look so you can't seen any pixal on them. The larger size gives the photos smoother looks.

== Not a mk 12 ==

If someone has a better name to call it, then correct it. Saying it isn't something else isn't helping in identifying what the sniper rifle is.

== Eat your Hard Boiled out ==

The Unit section now beats even Hard Boiled with over 60+ guns counted

:Nice work, now I can only say that Hard Boiled is the largest movie page. To be fair though, a T.V. show can grow, a movie stays still but anyway, great work.

::Yeah, nice job. I honestly have to admit that I don't have the patience to do TV show pages just cause they tend to feature lots of guns over the course of several seasons (especially a weapons-heavy military show like ''[[The Unit]]''). Plus, I rarely buy entire seasons of TV shows.

:::Well It was hard to track down the previous season since links to them have poor connection. I had considered renting the DVDs. Either way, this show has an impressive array of firearms and it isn't stopping in what the Unit shoots next.

== Rearrange of Garand, Winchester, and SKS ==

Recently the SKS, M1 Garand and the Winchester 1886 was moved to "other weapons" because they don't fit either section of Assault rifle nor sniper rifle. Hence they would be placed in the same section as the musket rifle would be since they are dated weapons.

== That´s a L1A1 SLR ==

[[Image:UnitFAL5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
judging by the handguards and the front sight,that´s a L1A1.

:It's still a FAL

== Two nit picks... ==

The derringer that Jonas carries in while wearing the tux looks like a High Standard Derringer. These were double action, tip down, .22 magnum as opposed to the single action, tip up, .41 rimfire of the original Remington design.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SN4dXMHNTUI/AAAAAAAAAj4/z2jZ_wOCmls/s1600/High%2BStandard%2B-%2BDerringer%2BMod.%2BDM%2B101%2B-%2Bpistol%2B-%2B.22%2BMagnum.jpg

Also, the lever action noted as a Winchester 1886 looks more like a Marlin 336. The 1886's bolt occupied most of the center of the upper reciever, while the Marlin has a round bolt with the ejection port on the right side of the reciever. In the pic, you can see the silver, circular section right in front of the hammer, which is the bolt.

http://www.outdoorsurvivalinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/start1_med1.jpg

Great site, thanks for all the trouble!
Doug K

==SU-16==

The keltec su-16 page says one was used in the show and i dont see it here. Anyone know where it was used? -K9870

:I don't see an SU-16. Anyone know which episode this supposively have appeared in? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==R.I.P.==

Just read over on Imdb that [[The Unit]] has been canceled by CBS. Bummer. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:From what I can see, the cancellation hasn't been decided on yet. But piss on CBS if they do. The Unit is the only show I look forward to every week. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:CBS canceled Jericho and then they canceled The Unit. That network just sucks. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::Tell me about it. Two of the best shows in CBS history right there and they're more concerned with "reality" shows like Survivor (which, BTW, are actually filmed on sound stages and not in tropical jungles and whatnot). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== Need help ID'ing AR-15 Variant. ==

As seen here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/The_Unit#Unknown_AR-15.2FM4_Variant]]. I'm pretty sure it's not a HK416, M4, or CQBR. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Model 933, but I'm no expert on AR-15s. Any help would be much appreciated.

[[Image:UnitAR4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Looks like a 933 or equivalent to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

I guess it is. Time for another update. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

==Optics w/ BUIS an anachronism?==
How is having BUISs on an optic-equipped weapon an anachronism when military and police commonly use said combo? Hell, even the Barrett 82 has BUISs. No offense to whoever made that statement, but it's gotta be one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever read. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Wait, where is this said on the page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Originally at the top of the Colt 933 section, but it's not there anymore. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

==Breaking up pages==
This page is getting too big to add any more items. I would like to break it up into different pages, creating new pages by weapons like the page is now and linking them to the original page. Has anyone else already started this? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]

:No offense, but screw that. Why break up a page just because it has too many guns? I mean have you seen Miami Vice? Mail Call? Hard boil? Those are pretty big pages too. I don't need to break up my page so that it is easier on your eyes. It's a waste of space and all it that pistol page has done was just waste space on the server. And what do you mean "too big to add anymore items?" There's no limit on how many guns you can put on a page as long as it has been shown on the show. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::However, Miami Vice was broken up into seasons because it took too long for the page to load or it crashed completely. The Unit doesn't have that problem, so I don't see a need to break it up. I do disagree about "there being no limit to adding to a page". the Miami Vice tv show is a prime example of a page getting so big it becomes unviewable to 99% of the potential users (unless someone has lightning fast internet connection and large RAM, which most people don't have. But I have no problems loading the Unit page, so I was mystified by the breakup. MPM2008

:If the Unit gets more seasons down the road with 10 times more guns, then I'll happily break it up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

::Here's hoping someone wises up and gives us a couple more seasons. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Small size caps? ==

Who turned all my caps from my standard 500x to this small size? It's ungodly small for a page like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::I think the user thought that shrinking the thumbnails would speed up the loading time. It doesn't. The page still has to re-size whatever the size of the original image is. Also IMFDB's standard is 500px or 600px (for ultra widescreen or high resolution shots). Again we still need a rules page, to tell the new users what the page standards are. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==Breaking up pages (cont.)==
If you go into the edit page, it gives a warning that the page is over 32kb and recommends that it should be broken up into different pages, but it looks like you want to keep it the way it is. So go ahead and delete the page with just the pistols on it. [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]
:It's at 42kb. Not much larger than recommended. Miami Vice was at 93kb, before it was broken up. Season 1 and 2 are at 40kb apiece. Load time is not bad on The Unit. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Then I'll get rid of unnecessary gun caps. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

:Is the Season 4 DVD box art really necessary? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, because I put it up as a featured article. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

==CM203 entry added==
I just got Season 4 on DVD, so I figured I'd jump at the chance and get caps of those Cobrays used in S4E7/8. I only took caps of them in episode 7, though, as I figured that was sufficient enough documentation for the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Like all armories for film and TV series, these would most likely be Cobray 37mm flare launchers that were designed to look like M203s. This is a common practice to have the appearance of 203s. It is unlikely any of the M203s seen in the series are real M203s.

:While that could be the case, the second picture of Blane show that it is an M203, the the C37. But, with the advancement of m203s and RIS systems, a soldier could simply slide on an m203. So, it could also be an airsoft replica if its never fired. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:The only episodes I recall seeing Cobrays in are S4E7/8. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

== Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol ==

In the story. Jonas took 2 of these out as a hidden weapon that he kept within a rat trap. He handed on to is wife before he made a disappearing act. I guess in story it's supposed to resemble a Walther TP or TPH.

''I don't know dude...these look a lot like the Walther PP or PPK to me. If these images are from the episode I am thinking of (the finale of Season 1) my reaction, at the time, was "why is Joans carrying such a weak ass pistol as his sidearm???".''

''Nah, the Walthers don't have that little extra piece of metal extending from the trigger guard to the barrel. But, then again...''
:It looks like a Walther PSM. It's like a PPK but with an extended trigger guard. Hammer looks like it too. -GM
::''What is a Walther PSM? Did you mean Walther TP or TPH? PSM is a Russian pistol made by Izhevsk.

::That is a '''Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol'''. I just checked the lower image against the one I have. Brixia Arms used to make this type of blank gun about 10 years ago, but their quality was pretty bad. There 'might' be some available, but the majority of the 8mm theatrical blank firing PPKs on the market now are made by '''Kimar''' or '''Voltran'''. What tips it off, is the writing on the slide (it is identical to the markings on my Brixia Nickel plated Walther PPK theatrical blank gun) and the '''hole''' drilled in the top of the barrel (where the ejection port is). This hole allows the flash from the blank round to fire '''upwards''' since the barrel is blocked. Also the magazine is a thin single stack type that only holds those skinny 8mm blank rounds. ____[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

==M60E4==
I put this pic here because I think it's copyrighted.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Unit-MG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

== number 3 biggest? ==
ok both this and stargate SG-1 page both say that they are the 3rd biggest --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 02:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The Unit is number 3, by my count there are about 40 more weapons. It's also about twice the physical size (KB) if that matters at all. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== 933 RIS? ==
What is this RIS?
[[Image:UnitAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit4164.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Looks like DD Mk.18 RIS II but I'm not sure.

Looks more like a Yankee Hill rail. [http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-Lightweight-Tactical-Free-Float-Mid-Length-p/yhm-9634%20ff%20mid.htm]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown M16 ==
I've uploaded another screencap of the M16 Bob carries in "Natural Selection."
[[Image:UnitM161.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
It's hard to tell since Scott Foley's thumb is in the way, but it appears that this rifle does not have a brass deflector, which would mean that it is not a Model 715 as has been suggested. Is there any official designation for this weapon (A1 sights, no brass deflector, A2 handguards and heavy barrel profile) or is simply a frankengun?
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:None that I know of. I've never seen or heard of that configuration before. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::It's a Franken-rifle. It has an A1 upper receiver, an SP1 lower receiver, and an A2 heavy barrel. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I'm gonna say frankengun, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Five Brothers ==

Why would the team have LAMs on their weapons in a 100% CQB op? when it would make more sense to have a tac-light?

You mean the PEQs they got attached? Maybe the missions required them to use them when they get outside. Who knows, they do this all the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

that doesnt even make sense. Beruit- a very close quarters city. why would they possible need an AN-PEQ? their guns have 10.5 inch barrels it would make sense to have a surefire tac-light. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

A flashlights best purpose is to give your position away. If shit were to hit the fan, like it did, and they had to operate at night they would be far better off if they used the IR light for illumination. And the laser for aiming assist. Personally, I'd want a visible light source on my gun, but there's no issue having a hand held on you belt or vest. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 05:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-08T19:47:13Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Into Hell */

This is one of those hard series since pictures are hard to find and I'm not a master of screenshots.

I like to keep the format I've set for the photos of M4s and MP5Ks the way it is because there were a lot of photos and I think the current format for those are appealing.

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/4/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

==Probably Hard Shots to find==
I only saw the first episode of this show and if memory serves me right, one guy went quail hunting with a pump shotgun (870 I believe) and then was held up by a man with a Mini-14 which I think had a 30 or 40 round magazine. Since the first episode isn't easy to find on the computer, I'm assuming this shot would be difficult to come by unless someone owns the first season on DVD. -GM

::That wasn't the first episode. It was another episode of the first season. I do remember that scene and will find shots of that eventually.

:Saw another episode one day were everyone was holed up in this house and one guy outside was shooting at BGs with a Browning M2 mocked up as a DShK. Sorry I can't help further but I don't watch it enough to describe further. Lot of good shots of M4A1s too. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

On the page, it said that Mack had a Kimber Warrior, can someone upload some pictures of that? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The Televised pictures of the Kimber Warrior doesnt look like a real Warrior. First, there is no laynard loop on the bottom of the grip. Second, the finish on the nose is showing some silver, and the KimPro finish doesnt wear like that. Could the show actually use a TLE/RL or maybe a SWAT edition. [[Spades of Columbia]]

TLE was used for a few seasons, then switched to the Warrior. Mack uses a normal 1911 most of the time in the newer seasons.
i do remember one episode. i dont recall the name, but i believe it was called "Stress". the one were their in africa and find a terrorist. i think Hector had one. and so did Jonas. if at all possible, can someone please add a couple of them that Mack uses them? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The SWAT custom one doesn't have the rail for optics [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Size of pics ==

I am not sure of the so called "format" of this site but I like the format of the M4 and MP5K section and how it's arranged and want to keep it that way. Also some pics are larger than others. The reason is that if they are smaller than 600 then they would look distorted. This didn't really happen in the old server. but for here I had to make them larger to they won't look so you can't seen any pixal on them. The larger size gives the photos smoother looks.

== Not a mk 12 ==

If someone has a better name to call it, then correct it. Saying it isn't something else isn't helping in identifying what the sniper rifle is.

== Eat your Hard Boiled out ==

The Unit section now beats even Hard Boiled with over 60+ guns counted

:Nice work, now I can only say that Hard Boiled is the largest movie page. To be fair though, a T.V. show can grow, a movie stays still but anyway, great work.

::Yeah, nice job. I honestly have to admit that I don't have the patience to do TV show pages just cause they tend to feature lots of guns over the course of several seasons (especially a weapons-heavy military show like ''[[The Unit]]''). Plus, I rarely buy entire seasons of TV shows.

:::Well It was hard to track down the previous season since links to them have poor connection. I had considered renting the DVDs. Either way, this show has an impressive array of firearms and it isn't stopping in what the Unit shoots next.

== Rearrange of Garand, Winchester, and SKS ==

Recently the SKS, M1 Garand and the Winchester 1886 was moved to "other weapons" because they don't fit either section of Assault rifle nor sniper rifle. Hence they would be placed in the same section as the musket rifle would be since they are dated weapons.

== That´s a L1A1 SLR ==

[[Image:UnitFAL5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
judging by the handguards and the front sight,that´s a L1A1.

:It's still a FAL

== Two nit picks... ==

The derringer that Jonas carries in while wearing the tux looks like a High Standard Derringer. These were double action, tip down, .22 magnum as opposed to the single action, tip up, .41 rimfire of the original Remington design.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SN4dXMHNTUI/AAAAAAAAAj4/z2jZ_wOCmls/s1600/High%2BStandard%2B-%2BDerringer%2BMod.%2BDM%2B101%2B-%2Bpistol%2B-%2B.22%2BMagnum.jpg

Also, the lever action noted as a Winchester 1886 looks more like a Marlin 336. The 1886's bolt occupied most of the center of the upper reciever, while the Marlin has a round bolt with the ejection port on the right side of the reciever. In the pic, you can see the silver, circular section right in front of the hammer, which is the bolt.

http://www.outdoorsurvivalinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/start1_med1.jpg

Great site, thanks for all the trouble!
Doug K

==SU-16==

The keltec su-16 page says one was used in the show and i dont see it here. Anyone know where it was used? -K9870

:I don't see an SU-16. Anyone know which episode this supposively have appeared in? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==R.I.P.==

Just read over on Imdb that [[The Unit]] has been canceled by CBS. Bummer. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:From what I can see, the cancellation hasn't been decided on yet. But piss on CBS if they do. The Unit is the only show I look forward to every week. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:CBS canceled Jericho and then they canceled The Unit. That network just sucks. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::Tell me about it. Two of the best shows in CBS history right there and they're more concerned with "reality" shows like Survivor (which, BTW, are actually filmed on sound stages and not in tropical jungles and whatnot). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== Need help ID'ing AR-15 Variant. ==

As seen here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/The_Unit#Unknown_AR-15.2FM4_Variant]]. I'm pretty sure it's not a HK416, M4, or CQBR. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Model 933, but I'm no expert on AR-15s. Any help would be much appreciated.

[[Image:UnitAR4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Looks like a 933 or equivalent to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

I guess it is. Time for another update. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

==Optics w/ BUIS an anachronism?==
How is having BUISs on an optic-equipped weapon an anachronism when military and police commonly use said combo? Hell, even the Barrett 82 has BUISs. No offense to whoever made that statement, but it's gotta be one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever read. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Wait, where is this said on the page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Originally at the top of the Colt 933 section, but it's not there anymore. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

==Breaking up pages==
This page is getting too big to add any more items. I would like to break it up into different pages, creating new pages by weapons like the page is now and linking them to the original page. Has anyone else already started this? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]

:No offense, but screw that. Why break up a page just because it has too many guns? I mean have you seen Miami Vice? Mail Call? Hard boil? Those are pretty big pages too. I don't need to break up my page so that it is easier on your eyes. It's a waste of space and all it that pistol page has done was just waste space on the server. And what do you mean "too big to add anymore items?" There's no limit on how many guns you can put on a page as long as it has been shown on the show. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::However, Miami Vice was broken up into seasons because it took too long for the page to load or it crashed completely. The Unit doesn't have that problem, so I don't see a need to break it up. I do disagree about "there being no limit to adding to a page". the Miami Vice tv show is a prime example of a page getting so big it becomes unviewable to 99% of the potential users (unless someone has lightning fast internet connection and large RAM, which most people don't have. But I have no problems loading the Unit page, so I was mystified by the breakup. MPM2008

:If the Unit gets more seasons down the road with 10 times more guns, then I'll happily break it up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

::Here's hoping someone wises up and gives us a couple more seasons. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Small size caps? ==

Who turned all my caps from my standard 500x to this small size? It's ungodly small for a page like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::I think the user thought that shrinking the thumbnails would speed up the loading time. It doesn't. The page still has to re-size whatever the size of the original image is. Also IMFDB's standard is 500px or 600px (for ultra widescreen or high resolution shots). Again we still need a rules page, to tell the new users what the page standards are. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==Breaking up pages (cont.)==
If you go into the edit page, it gives a warning that the page is over 32kb and recommends that it should be broken up into different pages, but it looks like you want to keep it the way it is. So go ahead and delete the page with just the pistols on it. [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]
:It's at 42kb. Not much larger than recommended. Miami Vice was at 93kb, before it was broken up. Season 1 and 2 are at 40kb apiece. Load time is not bad on The Unit. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Then I'll get rid of unnecessary gun caps. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

:Is the Season 4 DVD box art really necessary? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, because I put it up as a featured article. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

==CM203 entry added==
I just got Season 4 on DVD, so I figured I'd jump at the chance and get caps of those Cobrays used in S4E7/8. I only took caps of them in episode 7, though, as I figured that was sufficient enough documentation for the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Like all armories for film and TV series, these would most likely be Cobray 37mm flare launchers that were designed to look like M203s. This is a common practice to have the appearance of 203s. It is unlikely any of the M203s seen in the series are real M203s.

:While that could be the case, the second picture of Blane show that it is an M203, the the C37. But, with the advancement of m203s and RIS systems, a soldier could simply slide on an m203. So, it could also be an airsoft replica if its never fired. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:The only episodes I recall seeing Cobrays in are S4E7/8. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

== Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol ==

In the story. Jonas took 2 of these out as a hidden weapon that he kept within a rat trap. He handed on to is wife before he made a disappearing act. I guess in story it's supposed to resemble a Walther TP or TPH.

''I don't know dude...these look a lot like the Walther PP or PPK to me. If these images are from the episode I am thinking of (the finale of Season 1) my reaction, at the time, was "why is Joans carrying such a weak ass pistol as his sidearm???".''

''Nah, the Walthers don't have that little extra piece of metal extending from the trigger guard to the barrel. But, then again...''
:It looks like a Walther PSM. It's like a PPK but with an extended trigger guard. Hammer looks like it too. -GM
::''What is a Walther PSM? Did you mean Walther TP or TPH? PSM is a Russian pistol made by Izhevsk.

::That is a '''Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol'''. I just checked the lower image against the one I have. Brixia Arms used to make this type of blank gun about 10 years ago, but their quality was pretty bad. There 'might' be some available, but the majority of the 8mm theatrical blank firing PPKs on the market now are made by '''Kimar''' or '''Voltran'''. What tips it off, is the writing on the slide (it is identical to the markings on my Brixia Nickel plated Walther PPK theatrical blank gun) and the '''hole''' drilled in the top of the barrel (where the ejection port is). This hole allows the flash from the blank round to fire '''upwards''' since the barrel is blocked. Also the magazine is a thin single stack type that only holds those skinny 8mm blank rounds. ____[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

==M60E4==
I put this pic here because I think it's copyrighted.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Unit-MG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

== number 3 biggest? ==
ok both this and stargate SG-1 page both say that they are the 3rd biggest --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 02:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The Unit is number 3, by my count there are about 40 more weapons. It's also about twice the physical size (KB) if that matters at all. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== 933 RIS? ==
What is this RIS?
[[Image:UnitAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit4164.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Looks like DD Mk.18 RIS II but I'm not sure.

Looks more like a Yankee Hill rail. [http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-Lightweight-Tactical-Free-Float-Mid-Length-p/yhm-9634%20ff%20mid.htm]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown M16 ==
I've uploaded another screencap of the M16 Bob carries in "Natural Selection."
[[Image:UnitM161.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
It's hard to tell since Scott Foley's thumb is in the way, but it appears that this rifle does not have a brass deflector, which would mean that it is not a Model 715 as has been suggested. Is there any official designation for this weapon (A1 sights, no brass deflector, A2 handguards and heavy barrel profile) or is simply a frankengun?
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:None that I know of. I've never seen or heard of that configuration before. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::It's a Franken-rifle. It has an A1 upper receiver, an SP1 lower receiver, and an A2 heavy barrel. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I'm gonna say frankengun, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Five Brothers ==

Why would the team have LAMs on their weapons in a 100% CQB op? when it would make more sense to have a tac-light?

You mean the PEQs they got attached? Maybe the missions required them to use them when they get outside. Who knows, they do this all the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

that doesnt even make sense. Beruit- a very close quarters city. why would they possible need an AN-PEQ? their guns have 10.5 inch barrels it would make sense to have a surefire tac-light. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

A flashlights best purpose is to give your position away. If shit were to hit the fan, like it did, and they had to operate at night they would be far better off if they used the IR light for illumination. And the laser for aiming assist. Personally, I'd want a visible light source on my gun, but there's no issue having a hand held on you belt or vest. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 05:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-08T01:34:02Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Into Hell */

This is one of those hard series since pictures are hard to find and I'm not a master of screenshots.

I like to keep the format I've set for the photos of M4s and MP5Ks the way it is because there were a lot of photos and I think the current format for those are appealing.

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/4/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

==Probably Hard Shots to find==
I only saw the first episode of this show and if memory serves me right, one guy went quail hunting with a pump shotgun (870 I believe) and then was held up by a man with a Mini-14 which I think had a 30 or 40 round magazine. Since the first episode isn't easy to find on the computer, I'm assuming this shot would be difficult to come by unless someone owns the first season on DVD. -GM

::That wasn't the first episode. It was another episode of the first season. I do remember that scene and will find shots of that eventually.

:Saw another episode one day were everyone was holed up in this house and one guy outside was shooting at BGs with a Browning M2 mocked up as a DShK. Sorry I can't help further but I don't watch it enough to describe further. Lot of good shots of M4A1s too. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

On the page, it said that Mack had a Kimber Warrior, can someone upload some pictures of that? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The Televised pictures of the Kimber Warrior doesnt look like a real Warrior. First, there is no laynard loop on the bottom of the grip. Second, the finish on the nose is showing some silver, and the KimPro finish doesnt wear like that. Could the show actually use a TLE/RL or maybe a SWAT edition. [[Spades of Columbia]]

TLE was used for a few seasons, then switched to the Warrior. Mack uses a normal 1911 most of the time in the newer seasons.
i do remember one episode. i dont recall the name, but i believe it was called "Stress". the one were their in africa and find a terrorist. i think Hector had one. and so did Jonas. if at all possible, can someone please add a couple of them that Mack uses them? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The SWAT custom one doesn't have the rail for optics [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Size of pics ==

I am not sure of the so called "format" of this site but I like the format of the M4 and MP5K section and how it's arranged and want to keep it that way. Also some pics are larger than others. The reason is that if they are smaller than 600 then they would look distorted. This didn't really happen in the old server. but for here I had to make them larger to they won't look so you can't seen any pixal on them. The larger size gives the photos smoother looks.

== Not a mk 12 ==

If someone has a better name to call it, then correct it. Saying it isn't something else isn't helping in identifying what the sniper rifle is.

== Eat your Hard Boiled out ==

The Unit section now beats even Hard Boiled with over 60+ guns counted

:Nice work, now I can only say that Hard Boiled is the largest movie page. To be fair though, a T.V. show can grow, a movie stays still but anyway, great work.

::Yeah, nice job. I honestly have to admit that I don't have the patience to do TV show pages just cause they tend to feature lots of guns over the course of several seasons (especially a weapons-heavy military show like ''[[The Unit]]''). Plus, I rarely buy entire seasons of TV shows.

:::Well It was hard to track down the previous season since links to them have poor connection. I had considered renting the DVDs. Either way, this show has an impressive array of firearms and it isn't stopping in what the Unit shoots next.

== Rearrange of Garand, Winchester, and SKS ==

Recently the SKS, M1 Garand and the Winchester 1886 was moved to "other weapons" because they don't fit either section of Assault rifle nor sniper rifle. Hence they would be placed in the same section as the musket rifle would be since they are dated weapons.

== That´s a L1A1 SLR ==

[[Image:UnitFAL5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
judging by the handguards and the front sight,that´s a L1A1.

:It's still a FAL

== Two nit picks... ==

The derringer that Jonas carries in while wearing the tux looks like a High Standard Derringer. These were double action, tip down, .22 magnum as opposed to the single action, tip up, .41 rimfire of the original Remington design.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SN4dXMHNTUI/AAAAAAAAAj4/z2jZ_wOCmls/s1600/High%2BStandard%2B-%2BDerringer%2BMod.%2BDM%2B101%2B-%2Bpistol%2B-%2B.22%2BMagnum.jpg

Also, the lever action noted as a Winchester 1886 looks more like a Marlin 336. The 1886's bolt occupied most of the center of the upper reciever, while the Marlin has a round bolt with the ejection port on the right side of the reciever. In the pic, you can see the silver, circular section right in front of the hammer, which is the bolt.

http://www.outdoorsurvivalinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/start1_med1.jpg

Great site, thanks for all the trouble!
Doug K

==SU-16==

The keltec su-16 page says one was used in the show and i dont see it here. Anyone know where it was used? -K9870

:I don't see an SU-16. Anyone know which episode this supposively have appeared in? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==R.I.P.==

Just read over on Imdb that [[The Unit]] has been canceled by CBS. Bummer. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:From what I can see, the cancellation hasn't been decided on yet. But piss on CBS if they do. The Unit is the only show I look forward to every week. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:CBS canceled Jericho and then they canceled The Unit. That network just sucks. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::Tell me about it. Two of the best shows in CBS history right there and they're more concerned with "reality" shows like Survivor (which, BTW, are actually filmed on sound stages and not in tropical jungles and whatnot). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== Need help ID'ing AR-15 Variant. ==

As seen here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/The_Unit#Unknown_AR-15.2FM4_Variant]]. I'm pretty sure it's not a HK416, M4, or CQBR. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Model 933, but I'm no expert on AR-15s. Any help would be much appreciated.

[[Image:UnitAR4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Looks like a 933 or equivalent to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

I guess it is. Time for another update. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

==Optics w/ BUIS an anachronism?==
How is having BUISs on an optic-equipped weapon an anachronism when military and police commonly use said combo? Hell, even the Barrett 82 has BUISs. No offense to whoever made that statement, but it's gotta be one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever read. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Wait, where is this said on the page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Originally at the top of the Colt 933 section, but it's not there anymore. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

==Breaking up pages==
This page is getting too big to add any more items. I would like to break it up into different pages, creating new pages by weapons like the page is now and linking them to the original page. Has anyone else already started this? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]

:No offense, but screw that. Why break up a page just because it has too many guns? I mean have you seen Miami Vice? Mail Call? Hard boil? Those are pretty big pages too. I don't need to break up my page so that it is easier on your eyes. It's a waste of space and all it that pistol page has done was just waste space on the server. And what do you mean "too big to add anymore items?" There's no limit on how many guns you can put on a page as long as it has been shown on the show. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::However, Miami Vice was broken up into seasons because it took too long for the page to load or it crashed completely. The Unit doesn't have that problem, so I don't see a need to break it up. I do disagree about "there being no limit to adding to a page". the Miami Vice tv show is a prime example of a page getting so big it becomes unviewable to 99% of the potential users (unless someone has lightning fast internet connection and large RAM, which most people don't have. But I have no problems loading the Unit page, so I was mystified by the breakup. MPM2008

:If the Unit gets more seasons down the road with 10 times more guns, then I'll happily break it up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

::Here's hoping someone wises up and gives us a couple more seasons. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Small size caps? ==

Who turned all my caps from my standard 500x to this small size? It's ungodly small for a page like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::I think the user thought that shrinking the thumbnails would speed up the loading time. It doesn't. The page still has to re-size whatever the size of the original image is. Also IMFDB's standard is 500px or 600px (for ultra widescreen or high resolution shots). Again we still need a rules page, to tell the new users what the page standards are. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==Breaking up pages (cont.)==
If you go into the edit page, it gives a warning that the page is over 32kb and recommends that it should be broken up into different pages, but it looks like you want to keep it the way it is. So go ahead and delete the page with just the pistols on it. [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]
:It's at 42kb. Not much larger than recommended. Miami Vice was at 93kb, before it was broken up. Season 1 and 2 are at 40kb apiece. Load time is not bad on The Unit. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Then I'll get rid of unnecessary gun caps. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

:Is the Season 4 DVD box art really necessary? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, because I put it up as a featured article. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

==CM203 entry added==
I just got Season 4 on DVD, so I figured I'd jump at the chance and get caps of those Cobrays used in S4E7/8. I only took caps of them in episode 7, though, as I figured that was sufficient enough documentation for the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Like all armories for film and TV series, these would most likely be Cobray 37mm flare launchers that were designed to look like M203s. This is a common practice to have the appearance of 203s. It is unlikely any of the M203s seen in the series are real M203s.

:While that could be the case, the second picture of Blane show that it is an M203, the the C37. But, with the advancement of m203s and RIS systems, a soldier could simply slide on an m203. So, it could also be an airsoft replica if its never fired. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:The only episodes I recall seeing Cobrays in are S4E7/8. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

== Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol ==

In the story. Jonas took 2 of these out as a hidden weapon that he kept within a rat trap. He handed on to is wife before he made a disappearing act. I guess in story it's supposed to resemble a Walther TP or TPH.

''I don't know dude...these look a lot like the Walther PP or PPK to me. If these images are from the episode I am thinking of (the finale of Season 1) my reaction, at the time, was "why is Joans carrying such a weak ass pistol as his sidearm???".''

''Nah, the Walthers don't have that little extra piece of metal extending from the trigger guard to the barrel. But, then again...''
:It looks like a Walther PSM. It's like a PPK but with an extended trigger guard. Hammer looks like it too. -GM
::''What is a Walther PSM? Did you mean Walther TP or TPH? PSM is a Russian pistol made by Izhevsk.

::That is a '''Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol'''. I just checked the lower image against the one I have. Brixia Arms used to make this type of blank gun about 10 years ago, but their quality was pretty bad. There 'might' be some available, but the majority of the 8mm theatrical blank firing PPKs on the market now are made by '''Kimar''' or '''Voltran'''. What tips it off, is the writing on the slide (it is identical to the markings on my Brixia Nickel plated Walther PPK theatrical blank gun) and the '''hole''' drilled in the top of the barrel (where the ejection port is). This hole allows the flash from the blank round to fire '''upwards''' since the barrel is blocked. Also the magazine is a thin single stack type that only holds those skinny 8mm blank rounds. ____[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

==M60E4==
I put this pic here because I think it's copyrighted.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Unit-MG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

== number 3 biggest? ==
ok both this and stargate SG-1 page both say that they are the 3rd biggest --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 02:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The Unit is number 3, by my count there are about 40 more weapons. It's also about twice the physical size (KB) if that matters at all. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== 933 RIS? ==
What is this RIS?
[[Image:UnitAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit4164.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Looks like DD Mk.18 RIS II but I'm not sure.

Looks more like a Yankee Hill rail. [http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-Lightweight-Tactical-Free-Float-Mid-Length-p/yhm-9634%20ff%20mid.htm]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown M16 ==
I've uploaded another screencap of the M16 Bob carries in "Natural Selection."
[[Image:UnitM161.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
It's hard to tell since Scott Foley's thumb is in the way, but it appears that this rifle does not have a brass deflector, which would mean that it is not a Model 715 as has been suggested. Is there any official designation for this weapon (A1 sights, no brass deflector, A2 handguards and heavy barrel profile) or is simply a frankengun?
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:None that I know of. I've never seen or heard of that configuration before. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::It's a Franken-rifle. It has an A1 upper receiver, an SP1 lower receiver, and an A2 heavy barrel. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I'm gonna say frankengun, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Five Brothers ==

Why would the team have LAMs on their weapons in a 100% CQB op? when it would make more sense to have a tac-light?

You mean the PEQs they got attached? Maybe the missions required them to use them when they get outside. Who knows, they do this all the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

that doesnt even make sense. Beruit- a very close quarters city. why would they possible need an AN-PEQ? their guns have 10.5 inch barrels it would make sense to have a surefire tac-light. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

A flashlights best purpose is to give your position away. If shit were to hit the fan, like it did, and they had to operate at night they would be far better off if they used the IR light for illumination. And the laser for aiming assist. Personally, I'd want a visible light source on my gun, but there's no issue having a hand held on you belt or vest. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 05:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-07T23:48:12Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Into Hell */

This is one of those hard series since pictures are hard to find and I'm not a master of screenshots.

I like to keep the format I've set for the photos of M4s and MP5Ks the way it is because there were a lot of photos and I think the current format for those are appealing.

== Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/4/10) ==
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:UnitS4 004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6109.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:UnitS4 6110.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just ''liked the Cheetah more''? Who knows really. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Her back up is a Derringer gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.

:Yeah, now that you mention it, it ''does'' look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

==Probably Hard Shots to find==
I only saw the first episode of this show and if memory serves me right, one guy went quail hunting with a pump shotgun (870 I believe) and then was held up by a man with a Mini-14 which I think had a 30 or 40 round magazine. Since the first episode isn't easy to find on the computer, I'm assuming this shot would be difficult to come by unless someone owns the first season on DVD. -GM

::That wasn't the first episode. It was another episode of the first season. I do remember that scene and will find shots of that eventually.

:Saw another episode one day were everyone was holed up in this house and one guy outside was shooting at BGs with a Browning M2 mocked up as a DShK. Sorry I can't help further but I don't watch it enough to describe further. Lot of good shots of M4A1s too. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

On the page, it said that Mack had a Kimber Warrior, can someone upload some pictures of that? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The Televised pictures of the Kimber Warrior doesnt look like a real Warrior. First, there is no laynard loop on the bottom of the grip. Second, the finish on the nose is showing some silver, and the KimPro finish doesnt wear like that. Could the show actually use a TLE/RL or maybe a SWAT edition. [[Spades of Columbia]]

TLE was used for a few seasons, then switched to the Warrior. Mack uses a normal 1911 most of the time in the newer seasons.
i do remember one episode. i dont recall the name, but i believe it was called "Stress". the one were their in africa and find a terrorist. i think Hector had one. and so did Jonas. if at all possible, can someone please add a couple of them that Mack uses them? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The SWAT custom one doesn't have the rail for optics [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Size of pics ==

I am not sure of the so called "format" of this site but I like the format of the M4 and MP5K section and how it's arranged and want to keep it that way. Also some pics are larger than others. The reason is that if they are smaller than 600 then they would look distorted. This didn't really happen in the old server. but for here I had to make them larger to they won't look so you can't seen any pixal on them. The larger size gives the photos smoother looks.

== Not a mk 12 ==

If someone has a better name to call it, then correct it. Saying it isn't something else isn't helping in identifying what the sniper rifle is.

== Eat your Hard Boiled out ==

The Unit section now beats even Hard Boiled with over 60+ guns counted

:Nice work, now I can only say that Hard Boiled is the largest movie page. To be fair though, a T.V. show can grow, a movie stays still but anyway, great work.

::Yeah, nice job. I honestly have to admit that I don't have the patience to do TV show pages just cause they tend to feature lots of guns over the course of several seasons (especially a weapons-heavy military show like ''[[The Unit]]''). Plus, I rarely buy entire seasons of TV shows.

:::Well It was hard to track down the previous season since links to them have poor connection. I had considered renting the DVDs. Either way, this show has an impressive array of firearms and it isn't stopping in what the Unit shoots next.

== Rearrange of Garand, Winchester, and SKS ==

Recently the SKS, M1 Garand and the Winchester 1886 was moved to "other weapons" because they don't fit either section of Assault rifle nor sniper rifle. Hence they would be placed in the same section as the musket rifle would be since they are dated weapons.

== That´s a L1A1 SLR ==

[[Image:UnitFAL5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
judging by the handguards and the front sight,that´s a L1A1.

:It's still a FAL

== Two nit picks... ==

The derringer that Jonas carries in while wearing the tux looks like a High Standard Derringer. These were double action, tip down, .22 magnum as opposed to the single action, tip up, .41 rimfire of the original Remington design.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SN4dXMHNTUI/AAAAAAAAAj4/z2jZ_wOCmls/s1600/High%2BStandard%2B-%2BDerringer%2BMod.%2BDM%2B101%2B-%2Bpistol%2B-%2B.22%2BMagnum.jpg

Also, the lever action noted as a Winchester 1886 looks more like a Marlin 336. The 1886's bolt occupied most of the center of the upper reciever, while the Marlin has a round bolt with the ejection port on the right side of the reciever. In the pic, you can see the silver, circular section right in front of the hammer, which is the bolt.

http://www.outdoorsurvivalinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/start1_med1.jpg

Great site, thanks for all the trouble!
Doug K

==SU-16==

The keltec su-16 page says one was used in the show and i dont see it here. Anyone know where it was used? -K9870

:I don't see an SU-16. Anyone know which episode this supposively have appeared in? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==R.I.P.==

Just read over on Imdb that [[The Unit]] has been canceled by CBS. Bummer. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:From what I can see, the cancellation hasn't been decided on yet. But piss on CBS if they do. The Unit is the only show I look forward to every week. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:CBS canceled Jericho and then they canceled The Unit. That network just sucks. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::Tell me about it. Two of the best shows in CBS history right there and they're more concerned with "reality" shows like Survivor (which, BTW, are actually filmed on sound stages and not in tropical jungles and whatnot). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== Need help ID'ing AR-15 Variant. ==

As seen here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/The_Unit#Unknown_AR-15.2FM4_Variant]]. I'm pretty sure it's not a HK416, M4, or CQBR. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Model 933, but I'm no expert on AR-15s. Any help would be much appreciated.

[[Image:UnitAR4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Looks like a 933 or equivalent to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

I guess it is. Time for another update. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

==Optics w/ BUIS an anachronism?==
How is having BUISs on an optic-equipped weapon an anachronism when military and police commonly use said combo? Hell, even the Barrett 82 has BUISs. No offense to whoever made that statement, but it's gotta be one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever read. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Wait, where is this said on the page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Originally at the top of the Colt 933 section, but it's not there anymore. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

==Breaking up pages==
This page is getting too big to add any more items. I would like to break it up into different pages, creating new pages by weapons like the page is now and linking them to the original page. Has anyone else already started this? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]

:No offense, but screw that. Why break up a page just because it has too many guns? I mean have you seen Miami Vice? Mail Call? Hard boil? Those are pretty big pages too. I don't need to break up my page so that it is easier on your eyes. It's a waste of space and all it that pistol page has done was just waste space on the server. And what do you mean "too big to add anymore items?" There's no limit on how many guns you can put on a page as long as it has been shown on the show. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::However, Miami Vice was broken up into seasons because it took too long for the page to load or it crashed completely. The Unit doesn't have that problem, so I don't see a need to break it up. I do disagree about "there being no limit to adding to a page". the Miami Vice tv show is a prime example of a page getting so big it becomes unviewable to 99% of the potential users (unless someone has lightning fast internet connection and large RAM, which most people don't have. But I have no problems loading the Unit page, so I was mystified by the breakup. MPM2008

:If the Unit gets more seasons down the road with 10 times more guns, then I'll happily break it up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

::Here's hoping someone wises up and gives us a couple more seasons. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Small size caps? ==

Who turned all my caps from my standard 500x to this small size? It's ungodly small for a page like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::I think the user thought that shrinking the thumbnails would speed up the loading time. It doesn't. The page still has to re-size whatever the size of the original image is. Also IMFDB's standard is 500px or 600px (for ultra widescreen or high resolution shots). Again we still need a rules page, to tell the new users what the page standards are. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==Breaking up pages (cont.)==
If you go into the edit page, it gives a warning that the page is over 32kb and recommends that it should be broken up into different pages, but it looks like you want to keep it the way it is. So go ahead and delete the page with just the pistols on it. [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]
:It's at 42kb. Not much larger than recommended. Miami Vice was at 93kb, before it was broken up. Season 1 and 2 are at 40kb apiece. Load time is not bad on The Unit. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Then I'll get rid of unnecessary gun caps. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

:Is the Season 4 DVD box art really necessary? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, because I put it up as a featured article. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

==CM203 entry added==
I just got Season 4 on DVD, so I figured I'd jump at the chance and get caps of those Cobrays used in S4E7/8. I only took caps of them in episode 7, though, as I figured that was sufficient enough documentation for the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Like all armories for film and TV series, these would most likely be Cobray 37mm flare launchers that were designed to look like M203s. This is a common practice to have the appearance of 203s. It is unlikely any of the M203s seen in the series are real M203s.

:While that could be the case, the second picture of Blane show that it is an M203, the the C37. But, with the advancement of m203s and RIS systems, a soldier could simply slide on an m203. So, it could also be an airsoft replica if its never fired. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:The only episodes I recall seeing Cobrays in are S4E7/8. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

== Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol ==

In the story. Jonas took 2 of these out as a hidden weapon that he kept within a rat trap. He handed on to is wife before he made a disappearing act. I guess in story it's supposed to resemble a Walther TP or TPH.

''I don't know dude...these look a lot like the Walther PP or PPK to me. If these images are from the episode I am thinking of (the finale of Season 1) my reaction, at the time, was "why is Joans carrying such a weak ass pistol as his sidearm???".''

''Nah, the Walthers don't have that little extra piece of metal extending from the trigger guard to the barrel. But, then again...''
:It looks like a Walther PSM. It's like a PPK but with an extended trigger guard. Hammer looks like it too. -GM
::''What is a Walther PSM? Did you mean Walther TP or TPH? PSM is a Russian pistol made by Izhevsk.

::That is a '''Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol'''. I just checked the lower image against the one I have. Brixia Arms used to make this type of blank gun about 10 years ago, but their quality was pretty bad. There 'might' be some available, but the majority of the 8mm theatrical blank firing PPKs on the market now are made by '''Kimar''' or '''Voltran'''. What tips it off, is the writing on the slide (it is identical to the markings on my Brixia Nickel plated Walther PPK theatrical blank gun) and the '''hole''' drilled in the top of the barrel (where the ejection port is). This hole allows the flash from the blank round to fire '''upwards''' since the barrel is blocked. Also the magazine is a thin single stack type that only holds those skinny 8mm blank rounds. ____[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

==M60E4==
I put this pic here because I think it's copyrighted.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Unit-MG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

== number 3 biggest? ==
ok both this and stargate SG-1 page both say that they are the 3rd biggest --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 02:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The Unit is number 3, by my count there are about 40 more weapons. It's also about twice the physical size (KB) if that matters at all. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== 933 RIS? ==
What is this RIS?
[[Image:UnitAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Unit4164.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Looks like DD Mk.18 RIS II but I'm not sure.

Looks more like a Yankee Hill rail. [http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-Lightweight-Tactical-Free-Float-Mid-Length-p/yhm-9634%20ff%20mid.htm]
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown M16 ==
I've uploaded another screencap of the M16 Bob carries in "Natural Selection."
[[Image:UnitM161.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
It's hard to tell since Scott Foley's thumb is in the way, but it appears that this rifle does not have a brass deflector, which would mean that it is not a Model 715 as has been suggested. Is there any official designation for this weapon (A1 sights, no brass deflector, A2 handguards and heavy barrel profile) or is simply a frankengun?
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 01:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:None that I know of. I've never seen or heard of that configuration before. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::It's a Franken-rifle. It has an A1 upper receiver, an SP1 lower receiver, and an A2 heavy barrel. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I'm gonna say frankengun, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Five Brothers ==

Why would the team have LAMs on their weapons in a 100% CQB op? when it would make more sense to have a tac-light?

You mean the PEQs they got attached? Maybe the missions required them to use them when they get outside. Who knows, they do this all the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

that doesnt even make sense. Beruit- a very close quarters city. why would they possible need an AN-PEQ? their guns have 10.5 inch barrels it would make sense to have a surefire tac-light. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

A flashlights best purpose is to give your position away. If shit were to hit the fan, like it did, and they had to operate at night they would be far better off if they used the IR light for illumination. And the laser for aiming assist. Personally, I'd want a visible light source on my gun, but there's no issue having a hand held on you belt or vest. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 05:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Into Hell ==

Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

But how would the gunners know their nationality?

I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
[[Image:UnitHMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Syrian forces set up the DshK in Season 4's "Into Hell, Part II" (Mack refers to it as a "big gun".]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ''';)''' Film and television often require what is called a ''suspension of disbelief'', The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-07T19:32:48Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Into Hell */

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-07T00:30:08Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Into Hell */ new section

Talk:The Unit

2010-08-07T00:25:53Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Five Brothers */

Talk:The Unit

2010-06-18T19:46:58Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Probably Hard Shots to find */

The Unit

2010-06-18T19:39:35Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Cobray CM203 37mm Flare Launcher */

The Unit

2010-06-18T19:03:55Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Cobray CM203 37mm Flare Launcher */

The Unit

2010-06-18T19:03:04Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Cobray CM203 37mm Flare Launcher */

The Dark Knight

2010-06-15T01:00:01Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Unknown Revolver #1 */

'''The following weapons were used in the film ''The Dark Knight'':'''
[[Image:The Dark Knight.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''[[The Dark Knight]]'' (2008)]]

==WZ.83 Pallad D==
One of the Joker's henchmen named "Happy" uses a 40mm grenade launcher to break a window and to fire a grappling hook to the bank's roof. They are later seen used once more by his men to fire a line between two buildings to take down a GCPD helicopter.
[[Image:Grenade_launcher_wz.83_Pallad_D-1-.jpg‎|thumb|400px|none|WZ.83 Pallad D - 40mm.]]
[[Image:TDKPallad-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Happy" shoots out the window with his WZ.83 Pallad D.]]
[[Image:TDK 20002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Happy" fires a grappling line over to the bank roof.]]
[[Image:TDK 00009.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the Joker's men fires a line across the building.]]
[[Image:TDK 00010.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another one of Joker's men fires another line to create a block for the police chopper.]]

==Beretta 92SB-C==

A [[Beretta 92SB-C|Beretta 92SB-C]] equipped with a suppressor is used by one of The Joker's henchmen, "Happy" during the bank heist to kill "Dopey". An officer is also seen pointing his 92SB-C at The Joker when he takes Detective Stephens ([[Keith Szarabajka]]) hostage with a shard of glass, demanding to get his one phone call.

[[Image:92SB-C.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Beretta 92SB-C 9x19mm, compact model of the 92SB.]]
[[Image:TDK 20004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker's henchman "Happy", stands over "Dopey's" dead body with his suppressed Beretta 92SB-C after killing him.]]
[[Image:TDK 00011.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An officer aims his Beretta 92SB-C at the Joker.]]
[[Image:Picture 102.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Production Images of The Dark Knight.]]
[[Image:Happy'sBeretta.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Production Photo of Happy's suppressed Beretta.]]

==Beretta 92FS Inox==
A [[Beretta 92 pistol series|Beretta 92FS Inox]] is seen used by a Batman copycat against Scarecrow ([[Cillian Murphy]]). Several Beretta Inoxes are also seen used by Joker's henchmen at Gambol's ([[Michael Jai White]]) ambush.
[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS Inox - 9mm.]]
[[Image:TDK 5003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the Batman copycats tries to hold up Scarecrow with a Beretta 92FS Inox before he sprays fear toxin in his face.]]
[[Image:TDK 5103.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta Inox is held to the head of one of Gambol's men.]]
[[Image:TDK 5104.jpg||thumb|none|600px|Another one of Gambol's men is overcome at gunpoint.]]
[[Image:TDK 5007.jpg||thumb|none|600px|A wide shot shows the Joker's men with Beretta Inox's as they overcome Gambol's men.]]

==Glock 17==
"Grumpy", one of The Joker's henchmen in the bank heist, uses a [[Glock#Glock 17|Glock 17]] to kill "Happy" in the vault. He also uses it to hold up The Joker, suspecting he will kill him as well, only for Joker to tell him he is going to kill the bus driver. This confuses Grumpy until he is hit by a bus that smashes into the building. Several other Glocks are seen in the hands of Lau's henchmen and Gotham City police throughout the film.
[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Glock 17 3rd Generation - 9mm.]]
[[Image:TDK 20003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Grumpy" leads the robbery with his Glock 17 drawn.]]
[[Image:TDK 4001.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Where'd you learn to count?" Grumpy nurses a bullet wound after being hit by an unexpected sixth shot from the bank manager's shotgun.]]
[[Image:TDK 20005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Grumpy kills Happy with his Glock 17.]]
[[Image:TDK 20006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Grumpy holds his Glock 17 on The Joker.]]
[[Image:TDK 5017.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Batman disarms one of Lau's men of his Glock 17.]]
[[Image:TDK 5024.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of Lau's men lay unconscious with a Glock 17 in hand.]]
[[Image:TDKGlock17-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A GCPD officer apprehends Thomas Schiff, one of The Joker's men.]]
[[Image:TDKGlock17-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of The Joker's men disguised as a doctor wields a Glock 17.]]
[[Image:TDKGlock17-9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SWAT officer points a Glock 17 at Batman before he is yanked out the window.]]

==Glock 17 (Converted to full-auto)==
The Joker ([[Heath Ledger]]) uses a [[Glock#Glock 17|Glock 17]] that has been converted to full-auto, as the gun lacks the Glock 18's firing selector switch on the side of the slide. His Glock is fitted with a stainless slide and a G18's standard 33 round magazine. He is seen using it as his main weapon several times in the film. For someone as bizarre as The Joker, the gun fits him well as it is very rare, destructive, stylish although in some ways impractical. The extremely high cyclic rate makes it difficult to control, although in the hands of an experienced shooter, it is all the more deadly. The armorer referred to the gun as a Glock 18, but this is less of a mouthful then "Glock 17 converted to full-auto to resemble a Glock 18". Not to mention, he likely assumed no one would know the difference anyway. The armorer also mentioned how three Glocks were used, including two converted Glock 17s and one flashpaper model for close shooting scenes where blanks are harmful. Trivia: To make the Joker's Glock sound more impressive, the sound editors mixed in the report of a [[GE M134 Minigun]]. Despite the extreme cyclic rate difference (roughly 1300rpm to 4000rpm), this sound fits quite nicely.

[[Image:Glock_17.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Glock 17 fitted with a chrome slide - 9mm.]]
[[Image:TDK 3022.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker disguised as one of the low-life robbers loads a 33 round magazine into his converted Glock.]]
[[Image:TDK 3013.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He then locks the slide back and chambers the gun.]]
[[Image:TDK 20008.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker shoots the bank manager with his Glock.]]
[[Image:TDK 3016.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker shoots the bus driver with his Glock.]]
[[Image:TDK 00014.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker fires a burst from his Glock at the SWAT van. Note how the gun jammed after a single shot, although the sound editor and continuity director chose to ignore this.]]
[[Image:TDK 00015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker continues to fire his Glock on full at the SWAT van.]]
[[Image:TDK 00016.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker's Glock locks empty, so he switches to a Remington 870 sawed-off.]]
[[Image:TDK 5036.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"This city deserves a better class of criminal..." The Joker holds his Glock as he explains his philosophy to the Chechen.]]
[[Image:TDK 5032.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As mob's money burns, Joker holds his Glock on The Chechen ([[Ritchie Coster]]).]]
[[Image:TDKGlockMod-10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker shoots the officer while crudely disguised as a nurse. Note how the gun is a flashpaper gun due to close proximity for safety concerns.]]
[[Image:TDKGlockMod-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker with his suppressed Glock.]]

==Glock 26 (fictional mock up)==
During Harvey Dent's ([[Aaron Eckhart]]) cross-examination in a trial of mobster Sal Maroni ([[Eric Roberts]]), the witness Al Rossi([[Michael Vieau]]) draws a [[Glock 26]] cosmetically changed to look like a different gun. He pulls the trigger, but the gun misfires. After dissarming Rossi, Dent identifies the gun as a "Carbon fiber... 28 Caliber, made in China." Though, admittedly, this is just movie-talk, and therefore not actually pertaining to the gun.
[[Image:Glock 26.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Glock 26 - 9mm]]
[[Image:TDK 6008.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Al Rossi([[Michael Vieau]]) pulls his mocked up Glock 26 on Dent.]]
[[Image:TDKGlock26mock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note how the back plate has been covered up and the sights removed, further helping to hide its origins.]]
[[Image:TDK 7020.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent unloads the pistol. Note that one of the officers in the background carries a Beretta 92FS in his holster.]]
[[Image:TDK 6003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent ID's the pistol to Maroni.]]
[[Image:TDK 6005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent puts the pistol down in front of Maroni.]]

==Walther P99==
Lau ([[Chin Han]]) is seen pulling a [[Walther P99]] from his desk when Batman ([[Christian Bale]]) cuts the power to the building. Lau then uses the Walther to fire several shots at Batman.
[[Image:Walther-P99-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Walther P99 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:TDK 5023.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lau chambers his Walther P99.]]
[[Image:TDK 5019.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lau fires his Walther P99 at Batman. This type of low grip makes recoil control difficult and would definitely throw off sight alignment.]]
[[Image:TDK 5122.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lau with his Walther P99.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 19 Snub==
The Joker takes a [[Smith & Wesson Model 19|Smith & Wesson Model 19 Snub]] off of one of his men at Harvey Dent's fundraiser after Batman knocks him unconscious. He then uses it to hold Rachel Dawes ([[Maggie Gyllenhaal]]) hostage before shooting out the window behind him and dropping her out of it.
[[Image:Smith&Wesson.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson Model 19 with 3" barrel - .357 Magnum.]]
[[Image:TDK 6012.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker holds Rachel hostage with a snub nose Smith & Wesson Model 19.]]
[[Image:TDK 6013.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker demands Batman to take off his mask as he waves around the S&W.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 36==
Harvey Dent ([[Aaron Eckhart]]) uses a [[Smith & Wesson Model 36]] to interrogate Thomas Schiff, one of The Joker's thugs.
[[Image:S&W 36.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson Model 36 - .38 Special.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W36-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent swings open the cylinder on the Smith & Wesson Model 36.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W36-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent checks the Smith & Wesson Model 36.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W36-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent holds the Model 36 on Schiff.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 64==
The Joker ([[Heath Ledger]]) gives Harvey Dent ([[Aaron Eckhart]]) a stainless [[Smith & Wesson Model 64]] with a 3" heavy barrel to kill his perceived "enemies", flipping his coin to decide their fate.
[[Image:TwoFaceS&WModel64.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson Model 64 Stainless Model - .38 Special.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W64-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker gives Dent a Smith & Wesson Model 64.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W64-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent holds the Smith & Wesson Model 64 on The Joker.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W64-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent holds the Model 64 to Joker.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W64-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent points the Model 64 at Det. Wuertz.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W64-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent fires the Model 64.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W64-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent with the Model 64 in Maroni's limo.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W64-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closeup of the Model 64 that Dent holds on Maroni's driver.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W64-9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dent holds the Model 64 on Det. Anna Ramirez ([[Monique Curnen]]).]]
[[Image:TDKS&W64-10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After shooting Batman, Dent puts the gun to his own head and flips his coin.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W64-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note how even after shooting Batman and cocking the hammer, the chambers are fully loaded.]]

==M16A2==
[[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]] rifles are used by National Guardsmen, and by some of the GCPD officers at the funeral.
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M16A2 - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:TDK 6014.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A police officer covers the funeral with his M16A2.]]
[[Image:TDK 5037.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An officer charges his M16A2 fitted with a Trijicon Reflex sight while riding in a chopper.]]
[[Image:TDKM16A2-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A National Guardsman is seen on the news report with an M16A2.]]
[[Image:TDKM16A2-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Guardsman with an M16A2 at the docks.]]
[[Image:Batman 45.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Guardsmen guard the civilians on one of the carriers threatened by The Joker.]]
[[Image:TDKM16A2-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Guardsmen on the ferry are armed with M16A2s.]]

==M4A1 Carbine==
[[M16 rifle series#M4 Carbine|M4A1]] carbines are used by the GCPD SWAT teams throughout the film, and police snipers during the funeral. The M4A1s are seen mainly fitted with reflex sights, foregrips, and M900 Surefire tactical lights.
[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M4A1 with LE stock and factory grips - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:TDKM4A1-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SWAT sniper fires his M4A1 at a window when a timer opens the shades to distract the snipers from The Joker and his men.]]
[[Image:TDKM4A1-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SWAT officer armed with an M4A1 guards Harvey Dent in the transport van.]]
[[Image:TDKM4A1-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SWAT officer loads his M4A1 fitted with a Surefire M900 light before breaching the building.]]
[[Image:TDKM4A1-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Batman disarms a SWAT officer of his M4A1.]]
[[Image:TDKM4A1-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SWAT officers ride the elevator armed with M4A1s.]]
[[Image:TDKM4A1-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SWAT officers do a sweep armed with M4A1s and MP5A3s.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5A2==
[[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5A2]]s are used by GCPD SWAT teams and Lau's men in Hong Kong throughout the film.
[[Image:H&KMP5A2WideForearm.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:TDKMP5A2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A GCPD SWAT officer under the command of Comm. Gordon wields a Heckler & Koch MP5A2.]]
[[Image:TDKMP5A2-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Batman uses one of Lau's men's MP5A2 as a club to dispatch him.]]
[[Image:TDKMP5A2-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GCPD SWAT storm the building with MP5A2s.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5A3==
[[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5A3]]s are also used by the GCPD SWAT and Hong Kong SDU teams.
[[Image:MP5A3 StockCollapsed.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:TDKMP5A3-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SDU teams storm Lau's building armed with Heckler & Koch MP5A3s.]]
[[Image:TDKMP5A3-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SDU armed with MP5A3s.]]
[[Image:TDKMP5A3-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GCPD SWAT enter the building armed with MP5A3s.]]
[[Image:TDKMP5A3-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SWAT officer is yanked from the building with his MP5A3 in hand.]]
[[Image:TDKMP5A3-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SWAT officer aims his MP5A3 at Batman before being yanked out of the building.]]
[[Image:TDKMP5A3-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SWAT officer points his MP5A3 at The Joker as he dangles from Batman's grappling hook line.]]

==Remington Model 700PSS==
A GCPD SWAT sniper scouts windows for shooters during the funeral armed with a [[Remington 700|Remington 700PSS]].
[[Image:RemingtonPSS700.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Model 700PSS - .300 Win Mag.]]
[[Image:Batman 31.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Tightly, but frankly, there's alot of windows up here.".]]

==Blaser 93==
[[Blaser 93 sniper rifle]]s are used by the GCPD SWAT snipers over looking the building The Joker is in from the neighboring rooftop. While the poor light makes them kind of hard to see, the basic shape of the rifle and the obvious straight pull bolt-action makes it easy to identify.
[[Image:Blaser93SniperRifleA.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Blaser 93 - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]
[[Image:TDKBlazer93-1.png|thumb|none|600px|A SWAT sniper trains his Blaser 93 on the "clowns", unaware they are hostages disguised as henchmen against their will.]]
[[Image:TDKBlazer93-2.png|thumb|none|600px|A SWAT sniper waits for the order to fire.]]
[[Image:TDKBlazer93-3.png|thumb|none|600px|Any sniper with a brain would find such easy shots bizarre. The fact they are standing still with their hands bound would likely cause suspicion as well.]]
[[Image:TDKBlazer93-4.png|thumb|none|600px|The sniper chambers his Blaser 93 which clearly has a straight pull bolt-action.]]
[[Image:TDKBlazer93-5.png|thumb|none|600px|Like in most films, the rifles are shown to have lasers which reveal to the target they are under a sniper scope. In reality, lasers are very tactically unsound. Also, snipers aims for the head, not the torso (unless a headshot is not available and it clearly is here).]]
[[Image:TDKBlazer93-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A sniper prepares to fire his Blaser 93.]]
[[Image:TDKBlazer93-7.png|thumb|none|600px|A sniper fires his Blaser 93.]]

==M1 Garand==
The Joker ([[Heath Ledger]]) and his men use [[M1 Garand]] rifles during the assassination attempt on the Mayor while disguised as the honor guard who carry out the 3-volley salute during the funeral of Commissioner Loeb ([[Colin McFarlane]]). Since funeral procession guns are blank converted or fitted with blank adapters (they could lack both but these guns clearly fire in semi-automatic), the guns are either following the movie myth that blanks and live rounds both work in live guns, or they removed the adapters and are firing live rounds into the air for the first two volleys!
* Note: Theoretically, (however unlikely) the rifles might be unmodified Garands firing grenade-launching blanks during the first two volleys.
[[Image:M1 Garand.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M1 Garand - .30-06]]
[[Image:TDKM1Garand-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Thomas Schiff ([[David Dastmalchian]]) fires an M1 Garand into the air.]]
[[Image:TDKM1Garand-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker and his men fire the M1 Garands.]]
[[Image:TDKM1Garand-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker fires an M1 Garand into the air.]]
[[Image:TDKM1Garand-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker fires the M1 Garand at the Mayor.]]

==Norinco Type 69 RPG==
A Chinese [[RPG-7#Type 69|Norinco Type 69]] copy of the [[RPG-7]] is used by the Joker during the armored car chase scene. He uses it to destroy a police cruiser, but fails to hit the armored car protecting Harvey Dent ([[Aaron Eckhart]]). When Batman ([[Christian Bale]]) joins the chase, The Joker fires on the armored car again, only to hit the Tumbler inadvertently (after Batman bridges his Tumbler in front of the van). The Tumbler damaged beyond viability, Batman is forced to switch to his secondary vehicle hidden within the Tumbler, the Batpod. The SWAT officer riding shotgun referred to this rocket propelled grenade launcher as a "bazooka", which meant that this officer probably did not have any prior military experience before joining GCPD.
[[Image:Type69RPG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Chinese Type 69 RPG - 70mm.]]
[[Image:TDKType69RPG-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker fires his Norinco Type 69 RPG.]]
[[Image:TDKType69RPG-2.png|thumb|none|600px|The Joker reloads the Type 69 RPG.]]
[[Image:TDK 5004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker fires the RPG.]]
[[Image:TDK 5025.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker prepares to fire another rocket.]]
[[Image:TDK 5026.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker takes out the Tumbler with the RPG.]]

==Skorpion SA Vz 61==
One of Scarecrow's ([[Cillian Murphy]]) men uses a [[Skorpion SA Vz 61]] during the meeting with the Russians.
[[Image:Skorpion-SA-VZ-61.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Skorpion SA Vz 61 - .32 ACP]]
[[Image:TDKSkorpion-1.png|thumb|none|600px|One of Scarecrow's men fires his Skorpion SA Vz 61 at the Tumbler, holding the gun by the magazine like an amateur.]]
[[Image:TDKSkorpion-2.png|thumb|none|600px|The thug ducks as the Tumbler switch to "intimidate" mode.]]

==AKMSU==
An [[AK-47|AKMSU]] is used by one of Scarecrow's men during the meeting with the Russians.
[[Image:AK-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AKMSU Krinkov - 7.62x39mm. This is a blank adapted full auto transferable AKM (7.62x39mm) pistol that was converted into a Krinkov via parts kit.]]
[[Image:TDKAKMSU-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A thug fires his AKMSU at the Tumbler.]]

==IMI Mini Uzi==
One of the Batman copycats is seen using an [[Uzi|IMI Mini Uzi]] to shoot at the Chechen's mobsters.
[[Image:MiniUzi 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|IMI Mini Uzi - 9mm.]]
[[Image:TDKMiniUzi-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the Batman copycats fires his IMI Mini Uzi at the mobsters.]]
[[Image:TDKMiniUzi-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Batman copycat with his Mini Uzi.]]

==Ruger Mini-14==

A [[Ruger Mini-14]] is used by one of the Batman copycats who attacks the meeting between Scarecrow and the Chechen. Batman twists the barrel on the rifle with his Mangler before knocking him out.
[[Image:Ruger-Mini-14.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Ruger Mini-14 - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:TDKMini14-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Batman copycat wields a Ruger Mini-14.]]
[[Image:TDKMini14-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Batman bends the barrel on the Mini-14.]]

==Smith & Wesson 5904==
James Gordon ([[Gary Oldman]]) uses a [[Smith & Wesson 5900 pistol series| Smith & Wesson 5904]] as his sidearm in the film.
[[Image:S&W-5904-Early-RIGHT.jpg‎ |thumb|none|350px|Early Model Smith & Wesson 5904 - 9x19mm. This has the finger step contoured trigger guard that would later be replaced by the round trigger guard.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W5904-1.png|thumb|none|600px|Lt. Gordon raids a bank vault with his Smith & Wesson 5904 drawn.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W5904-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lt. Gordon with his 5904 at the ready.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W5904-3a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Gordon with his 5904.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W5904-4.png|thumb|none|600px|Gordon enters a crime scene with his 5904 at the ready.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W5904-5.png|thumb|none|600px|Comm. Gordon points his 5904 at Batman.]]
[[Image:TDKS&W5904-6.png|thumb|none|600px|Comm. Gordon searches for Dent and his family.]]

==Beretta PM12S==
Several of The Joker's men are seen using [[Beretta PM12S]] submachine guns throughout the film.
[[Image:BerettaPM12S.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta PM12S - 9mm.]]
[[Image:TDKPM12S-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of The Joker's men holds a Beretta PM12S on the party goers at the fundraiser. Apparently they didn't have enough plastic clown masks in stock and had to paint pantyhose instead.]]
[[Image:TDKPM12S-2.png|thumb|none|600px|One of The Joker's men disguised as a doctor readies his Beretta PM12S as the SWAT enters.]]
[[Image:TDKPM12S-3.png|thumb|none|600px|One of Joker's men readies his PM12S.]]
[[Image:TDKPM12S-4.png|thumb|none|600px|The thug with his PM12S.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 10==
Several officers in Hong Kong following the SDU teams are seen using [[Smith & Wesson Model 10]] revolvers with heavy barrels and rubber grips.
[[Image:S&WModel10HB.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Smith & Wesson Model 10 HB (heavy barrel) revolver (post-1950s model) - .38 Special. Later incarnations of the Model 10 had a non-tapered heavy barrel, which leads it to be commonly mistaken for a .357 revolver.]]
[[Image:TDK 5109.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A lobby guard in Lau's building is seen with a rubber-gripped Smith & Wesson Model 10 in his holster.]]
[[Image:TDK 5203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Hong Kong officer aims his Smith & Wesson Model 10 at Batman.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 29==
"Chuckles" is seen holding a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] in his left hand when he is shot by the Bank Manager.
[[Image:Smith&WessonModel29.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 - .44 magnum]]
[[Image:TDKrevolver-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chuckles is gunned down with a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] in his left hand and his MAC-11 in the other.]]

==SIG-Sauer P226==
The Chechen's ([[Ritchie Coster]]) men are seen using [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]] pistols during the meeting with Scarecrow.
[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:TDKSIGP226-2.png|thumb|none|600px|One of the Russians with his SIG P226 at the ready.]]

==SIG-Sauer P228==
The Chechen ([[Ritchie Coster]]) are seen using a [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P228|SIG-Sauer P228]] pistol during the meeting with Scarecrow.
[[Image:Sig-Sauer-P228.jpg|thumb|none|450px|SIG-Sauer P228 - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:TDKSIGP226-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Chechen ([[Ritchie Coster]]) holds his SIG-Sauer P228 as he and his men are ambushed by the Batman copycats.]]

==SIG-Sauer P229==
Detective Stephens ([[Keith Szarabajka]]) uses a [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P229|SIG-Sauer P229]] as his sidearm in the film most notably during the funeral when The Joker fires at the mayor.
[[Image:P229.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P229 - .357 Sig.]]
[[Image:TDKSIGP229-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Det. Stephens draws his SIG P229 when The Joker's men strike.]]
[[Image:TDKSIGP229-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With his SIG drawn, Stephens stands over Lt. Gordon's "dead" body.]]

==Colt Police Positive==
After The Joker announces on the news that if Coleman Reese ([[Joshua Harto]]) isn't killed within the hour, he will blow up a hospital in Gotham, one citizen tries to shoot Reese with his old nickel plated [[Colt Police Positive]] before he is tackled by the police.
[[Image:Colt Police Positive Nickel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Nickel Colt Police Positive - .32/.38 Special.]]
[[Image:TDKColtpolicepositive-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A citizen draws his Colt Police Positive.]]
[[Image:TDKColtpolicepositive-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The citizen fires his Police Positive, eyes closed. It's highly unlikely that this guy really has shot this gun many times and therefore it's understandable for his eyes to be closed.]]
[[Image:TDKColtpolicepositive-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A GCPD officer takes the Police Positive away from the citizen.]]

==Remington 870 Sawed-off==
During the bank robbery, the Bank Manager ([[William Fichtner]]) uses a sawed-off [[Remington 870]] shotgun to kill "Chuckles" and fires at Joker and Grumpy, firing five shots in total. Grumpy asks Joker if he is out and when he jumps up to fire, an unexpected sixth round grazes him before Joker shoots him. After he kills his remaining men, Joker takes the shotgun for himself. He is later seen using it to gun down a traffic cop who walks up to his semi-truck and to fire at the SWAT van transporting Harvey Dent before switching to his RPG. Multiple times in the film he is seen firing the gun with one hand, which in reality would produce more recoil than shown. Since blanks produce little to no recoil, this factor doesn't present a problem in movie guns.
[[Image:SawnoffShotgun2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 Sawed-off - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:TDK 3019.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Bank Manager readies his sawed-off Remington 870.]]
[[Image:Tdk 20088.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Bank Manager fires his Remington 870.]]
[[Image:Tdk20087.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Bank Manager realizes that he has fired his last round.]]
[[Image:TDK 3020.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Manager lays wounded with his 870 at his side.]]
[[Image:TDK 5018.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"We made it." The Joker with his 870 crashes Wayne's party.]]
[[Image:TDK 5022.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker fires his 870 into the air to get the party goers attention at Dent's fundraiser.]]
[[Image:TDK 5021.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker points his 870 at the party goers. Note 870 MAGNUM on the receiver.]]
[[Image:TDK 5028.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker shoots a traffic cop with his 870.]]
[[Image:TDK 5014.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker fires his 870 at the SWAT van.]]

==Remington 870==
[[Remington 870]] shotguns are seen as the standard long arms of the Gotham City Police Department. One of the Batman copycats is also seen firing one during the meeting between the Chechan and Scarecrow.
[[Image:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Remington 870 Police Magnum Riot Shotgun - 12 Gauge.]]‎
[[Image:TDK 5002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the Batman copycats fires a Remington 870.]]
[[Image:TDKRemington870-2.png|thumb|none|600px|GCPD officers stand guard armed with Remington 870s.]]
[[Image:TDKRemington870-3.png|thumb|none|600px|GCPD officers stand guard armed with Remington 870s.]]
[[Image:TDKRemington870-4.png|thumb|none|600px|An officer escorts Coleman Reese ([[Joshua Harto]]) armed with a Remington 870 after The Joker demands he is killed within the hour or a hospital is blown up.]]
[[Image:TDKRemington870-5.png|thumb|none|600px|Officer Berg ([[Matt Shallenberger]]) checks the chamber on his Remington 870 while escorting Reese.]]
[[Image:TDKRemington870-6.png|thumb|none|600px|A SWAT officer with his Remington 870 at the ready.]]

==Double Barrel Shotgun==
A [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun|Double Barrel Shotgun]] is seen wielded by one of The Joker's henchmen at the fundraiser. Bruce Wayne ([[Christian Bale]]) disarms the henchman of the shotgun and then disassembles the gun. This gun was likely selected because it is arguably one of the simplest guns to disassemble of many.
[[Image:StevesSBS1960s.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stevens Hammerless 1960s era shotgun - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:TDKshotgun-1.png|thumb|none|600px|Bruce takes the shotgun from one of Joker's men.]]
[[Image:TDKshotgun-2.png|thumb|none|600px|Bruce removes the forend.]]
[[Image:TDKshotgun-3.png|thumb|none|600px|He then removes the barrels. Simple.]]

==Mossberg 500==
[[Mossberg 500]]s can be seen in the hands of the correctional officers on the carrier guarding both the civilian boat and the convict boat.
[[Image:50577.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mossberg 500 with extended magazine tube - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:TDKMossberg500-3.png|thumb|none|600px|An officer guards the civilians on the carrier armed with a Mossberg 500.]]
[[Image:TDKMossberg500-4.png|thumb|none|600px|The officer to the left is armed with a Mossberg 500 while the one to the right has a 590 on the convict carrier.]]
[[Image:TDKMossberg500-5.png|thumb|none|600px|An officer holds the prisoners at bay with his Mossberg 500.]]

==Mossberg 590==
[[Mossberg 500|Mossberg 590s]] are also seen used by the correctional officers on the carriers. 590s are also used by GCPD officers.
[[Image:Mossberg 590.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mossberg 590 - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:TDKMossberg590-1.png|thumb|none|600px|A GCPD officer arrests one of Dent's heavy load of convicts with a Mossberg 590 in hand.]]
[[Image:TDKMossberg590-2.png|thumb|none|600px|A GCPD officer with a Mossberg 590.]]
[[Image:Batman 40.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A correctional officer fires his Mossberg 590 into the air to break up the convicts.]]
[[Image:TDKMossberg590-4.png|thumb|none|600px|An officer with a Mossberg 590.]]
[[Image:TDKMossberg590-5.png|thumb|none|600px|The officer with his Mossberg 590.]]

==Benelli M3 Super 90==
Commissioner Gordon ([[Gary Oldman]]) uses a [[Benelli M3 Super 90]] with a Surefire dedicated forend (which he took from the SWAT officer ([[Nicky Katt]]) who rides in the front seat with him in the armor transport carrying Dent) to apprehend The Joker only seconds before he tries to get to Batman. Several other GCPD SWAT officers use Benelli M3 shotguns as well.
[[Image:Benelli m3-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Benelli M3 Super 90 - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:TDK 5043.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The SWAT officer riding shotgun is seen armed with a Benelli M3.]]
[[Image:TDK 5215.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note saddle mounted shell holster on the Benelli.]]
[[Image:TDK 5009.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Gordon holds a Benelli M3 on The Joker.]]
[[Image:TDK 5012.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A clearer view of the Benelli as Gordon throws Joker to the ground.]]

==Smith & Wesson M76==
The Joker ([[Heath Ledger]]) uses a [[Smith & Wesson M76]] stored in his semi-truck to open fire on Batman's Batpod and several civilian cars before Batman crashes and Joker ditches the gun in favor of his knife. One of Scarecrow's men is also seen armed with one during the meeting with the Russians. Like the modified Glock 17 listed above, the report of a [[GE M134 Minigun]] is dubbed over for the sound of the gun.
[[Image:S&W M76.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson M76 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:TDK 5031.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of Scarecrow's men is armed with a Smith & Wesson M76.]]
[[Image:TDK 5015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Due to The Joker's lack of trigger discipline , he never keeps his finger off the trigger and when he falls trying to get out of his overturned semi-truck, he lets off a burst from his Smith & Wesson M76. Curiously, there are no bullet impacts on the ground.]]
[[Image:TDK 5117.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker fires his Smith & Wesson M76.]]
[[Image:TDK 4011.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An alternate take of the Joker firing his Smith & Wesson M76 at oncoming traffic.]]
[[Image:TDK 5020.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As the Batpod approaches, the Joker continues to fire his Smith & Wesson M76.]]

==MAC-11==
"Chuckles", one of Joker's henchmen, uses a [[MAC-10#MAC-11|MAC-11]] during the bank robbery before being gunned down by the Bank Manager.
[[Image:Mac m11 9k.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MAC-11 - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:TDK 3015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chuckles loads up his MAC-11 on the way to the bank.]]
[[Image:TDK 3017.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chuckles with his MAC-11 during the bank robbery.]]
[[Image:stock10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This is the buttstock that Chuckles uses.]]

==MAC-10==
Many of Joker's men use [[MAC-10]]s through out the film. Several of the hostages towards the end of the film disguised as clowns are seen with MAC-10s taped in their hands.
[[Image:IngramMAC10.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MAC-10 - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:TDKMAC10-3.png|thumb|none|600px|One of The Joker's men points a MAC-10 at the party goers during the fundraiser.]]
[[Image:TDKMAC10-4.png|thumb|none|600px|One of the hostages disguised as a clown tries to pull the MAC-10 taped to their hands off as the SWAT team enter.]]
[[Image:TDKMAC10-5.png|thumb|none|600px|One of The Joker's men points his MAC-10 at the SWAT as they fall through the floor.]]

==Browning M2HB==
The National Guard jeeps are seen with [[Browning M2|Browning M2HBs]] mounted on top of them.
[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB - .50 BMG.]]
[[Image:TDKM2HB-1.png|thumb|none|600px|A National Guardsman mans a Browning M2HB. While too far away for confirmation, the helicopter appears to have a door-mounted [[M60#M60D|M60D]].]]
[[Image:TDKM2HB-2.png|thumb|none|600px|National Guardsmen man a Browning M2HB on the news report.]]

==Unknown Revolver #1==
One of Scarecrow's men at the meeting with the Russians is seen in the background with a revolver too far aware for clear identification.
[[Image:TDKrevolver-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of Scarecrow's men to the right in the background is seen with an unknown revolver.]]
*It looks like a Colt Police Positive . - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:39, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

::No way, it's too huge. Might be a S&W M29 Performance Center. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::That's true it does have a full underlug but I'm not sure if its a Performance center gun
no. its the Colt Anaconda, possbile the raging bull

==The Joker's Grenades==
The Joker, a "man of simple tastes", favors his explosives. Mainly grenades. During the bank robbery, he brings a duffle bag filled with grenades including [[Mk 2 hand grenade]]s, [[M26 hand grenade]]s, and [[M67 hand grenade]]s, which he primes in the bank goers' hands so they are forced to hold the primer handles on. No indication is made that these go off when the lobby is gassed following the Joker's escape. Later when facing the major mob bosses during their meeting, he manages to stop Gambol from attacking by revealing many of these grenades attached to the inside of his jacket, all stringed to the ring attached to his finger.
[[Image:MK2 grenade DoD.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Mk 2 hand grenade.]]
[[Image:200px-M-67handgrenade.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M26 hand grenade.]]
[[Image:M67.jpg|thumb|none|300px|M67 hand grenade.]]

[[Image:TDK 4006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker opens up his bag of grenades to keep the bank customers busy.]]
[[Image:TDK 4004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker puts an M67 grenade into one of the bank customer's hands.]]
[[Image:TDK 4003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A bank customer nervously holds onto an M67 grenade. His hand is barely holding onto the primer handle!]]
[[Image:TDK 4007.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker puts an unknown gas/smoke grenade in the bank manager's mouth.]]
[[Image:TDK 4009.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As the Joker leaves, he attaches a wire to the grenade pin.]]
[[Image:TDK 6017.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker reveals his coat filled with grenades including M67s, M26s, and Mk 2s.]]
[[Image:TDK 6019.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Ah-ta-ta-ta! Let's not *blow* this out of proportion."]]

==GE M134 Minigun==
Bruce Wayne ([[Christian Bale]]) is seen using a custom built automated gun built from a [[GE M134 Minigun]] to test bullet impacts on slabs of wall to test which type of round matches the bullet he found used by The Joker to kill a police officer.
[[Image:M134.JPG|thumb|none|400px|General Electric M134 - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:TDKM134mock-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Alfred ([[Michael Caine]]) examines a round to load into the Minigun.]]
[[Image:TDKM134mock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Alfred loads a 30 round magazine to load in the Minigun.]]
[[Image:TDKM134mock-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Alfred loads the Minigun.]]
[[Image:TDKM134mock-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Minigun automatically fires down the range.]]
[[Image:TDKM134mock-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Minigun locks up.]]

==Batpod==
The Batpod is an autonomous vehicle salvaged from the Tumbler. It is equipped with mini-rocket launchers, machine guns and even two grappling hooks, notably used to bring down (or, actually up) The Joker's semi.
The mini-rocket launchers are used to clear automobiles immediately after the Batpod breaks off the Tumbler and to remove minor obstacles such as the alley garbage container. The grappling hook guns are first fired at the engine compartment of the semi and then trailing cables are secured around two street posts and then shot again to become anchored to the street. Note that this feat is next to impossible unless the initial hooks actually grab onto the semi's chassis. If they only hook onto the radiator, it would have come off instead of lifting the entire vehicle.

[[Image:TDK 5016small.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closer front view of the Batpod.]]
[[Image:Batpod-4.JPG‎|thumb|none|600px|A closer view at the hardware...]]
[[Image:Batpod-5.JPG‎|thumb|none|600px|...now with hooks open.]]

[[Image:Batpod-3.JPG‎|thumb|none|600px|Batpod firing a mini-rocket to clear away cars.]]
[[Image:Batpod-2-1.JPG‎|thumb|none|600px|Batman machine-gunning down a door he's about to go through.]]

[[Image:Batpod-1.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Close up of the batpod as Batman races to help Harvey Dent.]]

==Sticky Bomb Gun==
Batman uses a pump-action weapon to fire timed "sticky bombs" at the windows of Lau's building. He keeps the gun concealed and disassembled in the back of his utility belt.
[[Image:Bomb gun-1.JPG‎|thumb|none|600px|Batman prepares to fire his sticky bomb gun at Lau's building.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Christopher Nolan]]

Talk:Medal of Honor (2010)

2010-06-15T00:40:21Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Green Beret on cover */

This game looks very promising in terms of realism and graphics compared to the other games. I'm excited to see that the game developers are working with REAL special forces operators. The game comes out in Fall 2010. CAN'T FREAKIN WAIT!!!!!!- ArmoredMason619

I've always had a soft spot with this series. I really hope they knock it out of the park with this one.

I'm guessing the guy on the front cover is a Green Beret?-- John Ryder

:For some reason I though the guy on the front page was a PMC --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Na he is a Green Beret. That's the way they look when they are in a combat zone. They have to grow out a beard and dress like the civilians/insurgents in that particular area.-ArmoredMason619

A World War II shooter series is switching to a modern setting? It'll never work.
:Your kidding right...and sign your posts --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The graphics appear to be on par with ''[[America's Army 3]]'', though hopefully it'll have less problems and a better weapon selection. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The trailer had what looked like an [[FN Minimi#M249-E1 / M249-E2 / M249 Paratrooper SAW|M249 SAW]] variant fitted with an EOTech red dot sight, but I only saw it for a second looking down the sights in first-person mode so couldn't determine wether it was a standard SAW or specialized version like the Paratrooper or [[FN Minimi#FN Minimi SPW|SPW]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I added a screen of the M4A1 and the Minimi/SAw possibilty. --[[User:TheCrazyGunNut|TheCrazyGunNut]]

Ah, cheap EA.. This is so obvious that they are doing this because of MW success. Won't buy just because of this fact.

Or because WWII has been overdone and they wanted to do something else. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

20th century saw so many wars. They could pick any one. The most suitable would be Vietnam war. I can't recall many good games about this conflict. It could be about SF also.

How about Vietcong? http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Vietcong In my personal oppinion the best PC game from Vietnam conflict up to date. I know that the Vietcong wasn't perfect but other games usually wasted their potential (e.g. Conflict Vietnam, Men of Valor) ended as a low quality budget (first Shellshock 67 and many others) or as some crazy VC/NVA-zombie kill fest (recent Shellshock 2).

I agree that there were many other "interesting" conflicts or suitable theathers for FPS games but "supply is influenced by demand". The "anti-terrorist" theme is actual and developers don't want to risk introducing a game that "nobody would want to play". Remember it's all about the money. Actually it's quite strange that if I look backwards I can't recall any good or partially realistic FPS from Afganistan or Iraq theatre - Modern Warefare, appart from other parts of the story, was set partialy in the Middle East but in some fictisious country (and that *** spoliler *** nuking of the whole Marine division *** spoiler *** was complete bullshit) and Modern Warefare 2 was about hunting down some crazy Russian ultranationalists (and *** spoiler *** one rouge American general *** spoiler *** that was bullshit as well). No offence to Call of Duty but I personally hope that Medal of Honor would not turn into such killfest of stupid AI NPC duchebags thrown in absolutely ridiculous waves into a single coridor where you have to kill more than 70 opponents on less than 100 square feet ...

:::Wow, so doing something original is bullshit? I mean, come on; I'd rather shoot 70 guys in a single cooridor than simply go from cave to cave, shooting the occasional militant, or riding about in my vehicle until I hit a bomb and get ambushed. Generic examples I know, but put simply, fighting a military-trained, fully-equipped soldier is a lot more exciting than some fanatical militant using 30-year-old weapons. Heck, even America's Army created a fictional enemy for the US Army to fight.

Judging by what I'm seeing in the trailer this is going to be far from any CoD style of modern warfare. This shit looks seriously hardcore in terms of trying to replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay. I guess only time will tell. Hopefully by then they fix the damn gas block thing. Fuck that pisses me off. These guys are working with tier 1 operators but they don't want to model the damn gun correctly. Anybody with even slight knowledge of an AR-15 platform would notice this error. It's a big frickin error.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:::"replicate actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay"? So coalition forces playing in a sandbox there? And duh, there is a gas-block, it's just too low-profile and you cannot see it.

::::Even if the gas block isn't there, does it really matter? The average gamer probably doesn't know, or care, what a gas block is, let alone whether it's actually there or not; and the Medal of Honor series goes for what looks cool (such as the Flak Tower in Airborne), not what's realistic.

Don't change the intent of my words. Let me rephrase :::"replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan fighting into gameplay." There happy? As well the use of a low profile gas block seems like an excuse. What are the chances that every M4 has a low profile gas block when there are attached optics?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:::Why not? It's a game about hi-speed low-drag tear1 omfgd3ltasealz special forces operators.
::::That's ''Tier'' 1. And even a low-profile gas block would still be visible on the barrel where the standard FSP would be due to the length of the gas tube. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

North American release date is October 12, 2010. Europe is October 15.-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFpgNJZ8Fhc&playnext_from=TL&videos=vd-xeQ7FyHw
^ At 0:56, 1:04, 1:16 you can see a stock, body, and barrel of a M14 EBR.
At O:43 you can see what I believe to be some kind of M240.*EDIT: Mk 46 Mod 0*
All along the trailer are M4s with optics and different accessories. -DeltaOp
:Was the Mark 14 EBR even fielded yet in 2002? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

- Nope. EBR was designed around that date - 2001/2002 but first units (mostly from Navy Seals) were issued this rifle later on in 2004. So it's probably another game inaccuracy.

== Green Beret on cover ==
It's ''Cowboy''! [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/12/03/news-bearded-guy-on-medal-of-honor-cover-is-real.aspx] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:Lmao. Oh i didnt think of that one. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Anyone think its kinda odd that the Rangers seem to be doing alot of the work. along with the Green Beret. Wouldnt Delta Force/Navy SEALs be doing most of the stuff?

1st SFOD-D and Navy SEALs are, let's say, "equal" to Special Forces concerning their roles within US SOCOM. They are highly trained operators used for specific and "delicate" stuff. Rangers are more like muscless used for more "dirty" tasks. In reality, you would rather send a Special Forces A-Team to do cool things like - to recon the enemy airfield, to pin point potential high-value targets, to set observation post for calling CAS missions or to set sniping posts with 18B class operators with sniper rifles; while few C-130s packed with Ranger chalks would wait to "go-order" so they can jump in, do all the hard work and blow the enemy to pieces. Special Forces (Delta/SEALs etc.) are too valuable for such things. Even though, they are capable of kicking some serious ass, it is not practical to "mass" several A- or SEAL teams for a task, which bunch of Ranger squads could do better.[Ragnar]

okay thats true, but i just dont see why there wouldnt be SOME Operators or SEALs, think about this. Rangers are like the backbone of USSOCOM, Green Berets, are trained in Reconaissance, but if u want to kick some serious Taliban ass, u send in Operators or SEALs, because they excel at kickin' the door down, and opening up some whoop-ass. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:40, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

== Guns revealed in multi-player demo at E3 ==
(These are just what I could spot while watching it on TV)
*Beretta 92FS/M9 (not a 92SB like in CoD, had the squared-off trigger guard)
*Pump-action shotgun I couldn't identify (they only showed it from the back)
*Bolt-action sniper rifle, presumably a Remington M24 (only saw it from the back and right side as the player was working the bolt)
*Not actually a new gun, but the M4A1 also had a low-profile front BUIS mounted on the RIS is some scenes
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Medal of Honor (2010)

2010-06-15T00:39:58Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Green Beret on cover */

This game looks very promising in terms of realism and graphics compared to the other games. I'm excited to see that the game developers are working with REAL special forces operators. The game comes out in Fall 2010. CAN'T FREAKIN WAIT!!!!!!- ArmoredMason619

I've always had a soft spot with this series. I really hope they knock it out of the park with this one.

I'm guessing the guy on the front cover is a Green Beret?-- John Ryder

:For some reason I though the guy on the front page was a PMC --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Na he is a Green Beret. That's the way they look when they are in a combat zone. They have to grow out a beard and dress like the civilians/insurgents in that particular area.-ArmoredMason619

A World War II shooter series is switching to a modern setting? It'll never work.
:Your kidding right...and sign your posts --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The graphics appear to be on par with ''[[America's Army 3]]'', though hopefully it'll have less problems and a better weapon selection. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The trailer had what looked like an [[FN Minimi#M249-E1 / M249-E2 / M249 Paratrooper SAW|M249 SAW]] variant fitted with an EOTech red dot sight, but I only saw it for a second looking down the sights in first-person mode so couldn't determine wether it was a standard SAW or specialized version like the Paratrooper or [[FN Minimi#FN Minimi SPW|SPW]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I added a screen of the M4A1 and the Minimi/SAw possibilty. --[[User:TheCrazyGunNut|TheCrazyGunNut]]

Ah, cheap EA.. This is so obvious that they are doing this because of MW success. Won't buy just because of this fact.

Or because WWII has been overdone and they wanted to do something else. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

20th century saw so many wars. They could pick any one. The most suitable would be Vietnam war. I can't recall many good games about this conflict. It could be about SF also.

How about Vietcong? http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Vietcong In my personal oppinion the best PC game from Vietnam conflict up to date. I know that the Vietcong wasn't perfect but other games usually wasted their potential (e.g. Conflict Vietnam, Men of Valor) ended as a low quality budget (first Shellshock 67 and many others) or as some crazy VC/NVA-zombie kill fest (recent Shellshock 2).

I agree that there were many other "interesting" conflicts or suitable theathers for FPS games but "supply is influenced by demand". The "anti-terrorist" theme is actual and developers don't want to risk introducing a game that "nobody would want to play". Remember it's all about the money. Actually it's quite strange that if I look backwards I can't recall any good or partially realistic FPS from Afganistan or Iraq theatre - Modern Warefare, appart from other parts of the story, was set partialy in the Middle East but in some fictisious country (and that *** spoliler *** nuking of the whole Marine division *** spoiler *** was complete bullshit) and Modern Warefare 2 was about hunting down some crazy Russian ultranationalists (and *** spoiler *** one rouge American general *** spoiler *** that was bullshit as well). No offence to Call of Duty but I personally hope that Medal of Honor would not turn into such killfest of stupid AI NPC duchebags thrown in absolutely ridiculous waves into a single coridor where you have to kill more than 70 opponents on less than 100 square feet ...

:::Wow, so doing something original is bullshit? I mean, come on; I'd rather shoot 70 guys in a single cooridor than simply go from cave to cave, shooting the occasional militant, or riding about in my vehicle until I hit a bomb and get ambushed. Generic examples I know, but put simply, fighting a military-trained, fully-equipped soldier is a lot more exciting than some fanatical militant using 30-year-old weapons. Heck, even America's Army created a fictional enemy for the US Army to fight.

Judging by what I'm seeing in the trailer this is going to be far from any CoD style of modern warfare. This shit looks seriously hardcore in terms of trying to replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay. I guess only time will tell. Hopefully by then they fix the damn gas block thing. Fuck that pisses me off. These guys are working with tier 1 operators but they don't want to model the damn gun correctly. Anybody with even slight knowledge of an AR-15 platform would notice this error. It's a big frickin error.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:::"replicate actual Iraq/Afghanistan gameplay"? So coalition forces playing in a sandbox there? And duh, there is a gas-block, it's just too low-profile and you cannot see it.

::::Even if the gas block isn't there, does it really matter? The average gamer probably doesn't know, or care, what a gas block is, let alone whether it's actually there or not; and the Medal of Honor series goes for what looks cool (such as the Flak Tower in Airborne), not what's realistic.

Don't change the intent of my words. Let me rephrase :::"replicate some actual Iraq/Afghanistan fighting into gameplay." There happy? As well the use of a low profile gas block seems like an excuse. What are the chances that every M4 has a low profile gas block when there are attached optics?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:::Why not? It's a game about hi-speed low-drag tear1 omfgd3ltasealz special forces operators.
::::That's ''Tier'' 1. And even a low-profile gas block would still be visible on the barrel where the standard FSP would be due to the length of the gas tube. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

North American release date is October 12, 2010. Europe is October 15.-- [[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFpgNJZ8Fhc&playnext_from=TL&videos=vd-xeQ7FyHw
^ At 0:56, 1:04, 1:16 you can see a stock, body, and barrel of a M14 EBR.
At O:43 you can see what I believe to be some kind of M240.*EDIT: Mk 46 Mod 0*
All along the trailer are M4s with optics and different accessories. -DeltaOp
:Was the Mark 14 EBR even fielded yet in 2002? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

- Nope. EBR was designed around that date - 2001/2002 but first units (mostly from Navy Seals) were issued this rifle later on in 2004. So it's probably another game inaccuracy.

== Green Beret on cover ==
It's ''Cowboy''! [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/12/03/news-bearded-guy-on-medal-of-honor-cover-is-real.aspx] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:Lmao. Oh i didnt think of that one. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Anyone think its kinda odd that the Rangers seem to be doing alot of the work. along with the Green Beret. Wouldnt Delta Force/Navy SEALs be doing most of the stuff?

1st SFOD-D and Navy SEALs are, let's say, "equal" to Special Forces concerning their roles within US SOCOM. They are highly trained operators used for specific and "delicate" stuff. Rangers are more like muscless used for more "dirty" tasks. In reality, you would rather send a Special Forces A-Team to do cool things like - to recon the enemy airfield, to pin point potential high-value targets, to set observation post for calling CAS missions or to set sniping posts with 18B class operators with sniper rifles; while few C-130s packed with Ranger chalks would wait to "go-order" so they can jump in, do all the hard work and blow the enemy to pieces. Special Forces (Delta/SEALs etc.) are too valuable for such things. Even though, they are capable of kicking some serious ass, it is not practical to "mass" several A- or SEAL teams for a task, which bunch of Ranger squads could do better.[Ragnar]

okay thats true, but i just dont see why there wouldnt be SOME Operators or SEALs, think about this. Rangers are like the backbone of USSOCOM, Green Berets, are trained in Reconaissance, but if u want to kick some serious Taliban ass, u send in Operators or SEALs, because they excel at kickin' the door down, and opening up some whoop-ass. ````

== Guns revealed in multi-player demo at E3 ==
(These are just what I could spot while watching it on TV)
*Beretta 92FS/M9 (not a 92SB like in CoD, had the squared-off trigger guard)
*Pump-action shotgun I couldn't identify (they only showed it from the back)
*Bolt-action sniper rifle, presumably a Remington M24 (only saw it from the back and right side as the player was working the bolt)
*Not actually a new gun, but the M4A1 also had a low-profile front BUIS mounted on the RIS is some scenes
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Deadliest Warrior - Season 2

2010-06-05T01:55:23Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Season 2 */

== Moving Season 1 ==

Was it really nessessary to give Season 1 it's own page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:17, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:I only moved it because it was making the page too long. Kinda like how the 24 page was divided up into seasons; the page was also getting too long. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 00:55, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

==Small mistakes==
As I'm watching this show, I notice way too many small errors.
For example, in Spetznaz vs. GB, they list the Makarov as 9mm. While it's true that it's 9mm, the 9X18 Makarov round is NOT the same as the 9X19.

And the Ninja's weapon, the Ninjatō, never had proof that it was real, Ninja's used Katanas. Also, the Ninja wearing black, is just a stereotype, in the woods they would wear something like green.

:I was in a class that teaches the art of Ninjutsu and even the master said that ninjas use whatever they can get their hands on. They are real special forces like [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

==Richard Mackowitz?==
Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but I swear that guy firing the 416 is Mack from [[Future Weapons]]. O_o Compare these shots...
[[Image:DW PSD demo.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Steve Gordon demonstrating an HK416 by firing it at a range instead of the PSD.]]
[[Image:DW PSD angle.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Another angle of Gordon firing with the 416.]]

...to one taken from the Future Weapons page of Mack crouched over a rifle while wearing similar headgear.
[[Image:Fwm992.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:Well that's because both of them are bald and have the same shape of a head. It did make me glance twice [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

==Pirates vs. Knights==
That line-up was pretty laughable. Not sure who the pirate "experts" were, but they didn't know a thing they were talking about. Pirates carrying at least 4 to 6 pistols, a blunderbuss, AND grenados...yeah, no. And even going as far as to called them "trained soldiers." Pirates were poor rag-tag pillagers. Few were ever armed with more than one firearm and the chance for misfires for the flintlocks and the blunderbuss is ridiculous. Overall it would've been a sword fight and the knight's shield and sword combo with combat training would've easily taken down the pirate--no contest if the knight stayed on his horse.

--
This show is awesome, heh I hear they are going to have Green Berets vs. Spetsnaz and IRA vs. Taliban

Yeah it is awesome. I think the Spetsnaz are going to win over the Green Berets next week. I haven't heard anything about the IRA vs. Taliban fight though.

:I agree totally. Spetsnaz could kick Special Forces' ass. but dont tell any i said that! -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

Whoever edited the page last is totally wrong. It should have the M4A1, AKM assault rifle, Mossberg 590, Saiga shotgun, RGD-5 grenade, M67 grenade, Beretta M9, Makarov pistol, SVD Dragunov, and M24 sniper rifle.

==Ridiculous show==
This show is ridiculous. Many of the match ups aren't fair to either or both sides, since they are just 'assuming' many things. Also many of the comparisons are purely '''apples vs oranges'''. In the Mafia versus Yakuza, comparing a Thompson to a Sten????? WTF? Two different types of guns for different purposes. the M1928 with a 100 round drum is ridiculously HEAVY and no soldier would want to be running around a lying prone with it (which is why the M1 &M1A1 with their stick mags were developed in WW2). The Sten is lighter and holds a 32 round stick mag. It was a very simplified design done for the sake of mass production during time of war, and it was much more suited to commando raids and airborne ops than the Thompson with a 100 rd drum, just because of weight and types of magazines.

Sure the historical tests of the weapons are fun and all, but all serious military historians think that the "matchups" are just stupid. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:12, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Dude, the Sten and the Thompson are both submachine guns for close range fighting, and no military ever used the 100 round drum. Thompsons in airborne landings used 30 round magazines that were much better than the Sten's.

:''I've seen the first episode, the Yakuza vs. Mafia matchup, and this week's Spetsnaz vs. Green Beret episode. I can't say I have a problem with the Spetsnaz "winning", but I have serious problems with the testing they did. The ballistic knife over the E-Tool was the most ridiculous thing I've seen, by far, and while I can't say I've studied Spetsnaz tactics to any real extent, I refuse to believe that they really move around like they're shooting Hard Boiled 2.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 03:24, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:SpetnazPoster.jpg|center|600px]]

::I agree, their shooting style was just...overblown. The fast crouching and ducking and shooting was just...stupid. They shoot their sidearms with one hand apparently, and got a better hit ratio over the Green Beret who shot faster and holding his M9 with both hands. The comparison wasn't as bad as the Mafia and Yakuza where they compared a P38 to a double barrel shotgun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

::::''I have read several articles written by former police and military combat instructors which discuss how the singlehanded grip, while less effective for long range target shooting, can be much more flexible and effective than the double handed grip. Practice is far more important than which grip is used, if the Spetsnaz soldier had trained more with a one hand grip than the Green Beret did with both than he would obviously perform better. Keep in mind, handguns have been around since the 1500's and the two-handed grip did not come into widespread usage until the 1950's.''

:::''The "final fight" was even worse. I'm fairly certain that any self-respecting soldier is going to carry multiple mags for any weapon they carry into battle. Here, the Green Beret empties his M9...and drops the gun. I almost screamed at the TV, "RELOAD! RELOAD, YOU FOOL!" At least the one on one between the Yakuza and Mafia soldier seemed somewhat realistic.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 19:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

:I know, it's like the Green Beret was thinking "Hey, I still have extra mags for my M4, but I rather use my M9. Hey, my M9 is empty, but instead of reloading, I'm going to use...my SHOVEL!" It's ridiculous. In one of the other forums, someone suggested that the show shoulda gotten the Russian and Green Beret guys in a paintball field, gave them guns that shoot sim ammo and rubber knives and have them go at it. At least that would have been more accurate results than some computer tests! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree that a paintball match at a combat town would show off more of their small unit tactical training, than the bullshit 'test' they do on the show. That would be interesting to see! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:06, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure you guys caught the mention of the M4A1's four-position selector *rolls eyes*... Obviously the guys they hired to portray these ex-SOF soldiers didn't do their homework. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:It would make sense to compare ANCIENT weapons. I think there are interesting comparisons between short swords, pikes, spears and other edged weapons FROM THE ANCIENT WORLD. But when it comes to firearms, COME ON! Like someone said, they 'tested' the Yakuza versus the Mafia by testing the Walther P38(!!) to a double barrel shotgun(!!!??) WTF? How about comparing the P38 to the Model 10? or the 1911? But then the Model 10 and 1911 were also used by the Yakuza. All of the Firearms testing on this show is ridiculous and stupid. The only valid 'comparisons' are between the ancient weapons, like the Zulu short spear or the Roman sword or the Scimitar, etc. etc. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:04, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

::There were problems in comparing "ancient" weapons. I mean the Viking vs Samurai, they didn't mention that Vikings had bows and arrows too and they "tested" a viking axe to a Samurai sword! They didn't want to do the long sword vs the Katana why? I mean the samurai also used spears, but they didn't show that in the episode, just a bow vs a viking spear. Come on! The ninja vs spartan was also weak since all the weapons weren't matched up except sword against sword. Well at least for the next 2 weeks they're going back to actual warriors of old like Shaolin vs Mauoi, and 2 actual people of history Shaka Zulu vs William Wallace. But their last episode is going to be the worse, the IRA vs the Taliban! That is just..stupid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:59, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
: Yeah and in Vikings .V. Samurai, the Viking snapped the Samurai's spine w/ a battle axe, but lost anyway. WTF?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

:::''IRA versus Taliban? Despite each group being completely different philosophy/theology/motivations/goals/limitations etc, the show could just show a Bomb going off in a pub (IRA) or a truck driving UP to a marketplace and then blowing up (Taliban)....Yeeesshhhhh! MPM2008''

The only thing I've liked about this show so far was the actual ninja vs Spartan battle. It was fairly entertaining, if nothing else (even though it was a serious mismatch). Like comparing an AK to an AR hasn't been done 674356789765545675 times before...? They should stick to matching up pre-gunpowder warriors, IMO. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:If it was Ninja vs Pirates, then that would be awesome [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:Fuck that, i want zombies versus gladiators[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:55, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I just saw the Yakuza vs. Mafia & Spetznaz vs. Green Berets episodes, and I think I have a migrane now. They used a Luger P08 as a "Walther P38" and had a so-called "expert" saying the M4A1 has a "4-position selector switch" and is capable of both burst AND automatic fire. What the hell? They also had a Saiga-12 with a hunting-style stock rather than the mil-spec pistol grip. They also used a 7.62x39mm folding-stock AK to represent the 5.45x39mm "AK-74 carbine" I guess this should be expected from a channel with shows as ''Manswers''... [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 01:13, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

:Another glaring error; in the Green Berets/Spetznaz episode, U.S. military personnel NEVER wear berets in combat! That is PURE hollywood! Those soldiers would have been wearing kevlar helmets, patrol caps, boonie hats, or -maybe- a baseball cap, but NOT their freakin' berets which are only worn in non-combat situations such as when on base stateside. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 18:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
::The Green Berets and Navy Seals during the Vietnam War did use Berets, Bonnie hats, Bush Hats and those baseball-cap style green caps they used when they weren't in combat. Alongside all kinds of bandanas but, they depicted the green berets and the russians in modern day and even that Spike TV managed to fuck up. The Spetznaz doesn't use AKMs. They use AK-74Ms.

::Well, the were accurate enough by at least saying the Spetznaz use AK-74s, but in the show we don't see a single AK-74 like gun at all. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

:::They said AK-74 not AK-74M but that is just nitpicking. They also called the AK-74 a carbine not a assault rifle. This show is dumb.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

==Four position Safety==
I hate to break it to some of you but they do in fact make a four position safety for the M-16 series rifle. You used to be able to buy them a few years back in the Shotgun news.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
:Really? That a fact? But we're talking about the Green Berets here. Do you really think they use M4s with 4 selections? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I wouldn't know the only time I have handled an official US issue M-4A1 was about ten years ago and it was safe-Semi-Full. from what I understand the four position safety was designed as an experiment and latter sold comercially. Given that the weapons are shown comertially then it is possible that such a selector on that rifle. As far as the "Green Beret"'s go I'm sure they have an example or two stored in the back of a bunker or two. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

There was NOT any four-selector AR-15 based rifle EVER created. If you ever had any AR-15 rifle dissasembled, or even if you ever handled any, you would have know, that a four-selector switch is purely impossible. ALL issued variants have/had only a three-position selector switch - either for save/semi/auto (early models Colt 601,602, various carbine versions, the M16A3 and others) or save/semi/burst (M16A2, M16A2 etc). Concerning the M4 Carbine, the original version, Colt Model 720, adopted in 1994, was capable of firing three round burst and had M16A2 style non-remouvable carrying handle. M4A1 variant (Colt Model 925) and the SOPMOD version are capable of fully automatic fire, have remouvable carring handle, and in case of SOPMOD and M4 MWS (Modular Weapon System) are fitted with M5 Knight's Armament Corporation RIS/RAS. [[Ragnar -unregistered user]]
:Sorry idiot i am calling you on your Bullshit. Look in the back issues of Shotgun News for about the past decade. it may take a while to find comertially available four position safty's for not only the M16 but for Romanian(?) AK varients. Tey were the sorts of adds that grabbed my attention because they were the sorts of odd things that you find in places that store small arms and/or the parts of. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:15, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
::Adendum...(http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5760328.PN.&OS=PN/5760328&RS=PN/5760328 )Colt pattened the thing back in 1996.

This show is stupid, but It would be cool if they did Paul Kearsey VS Harry Calahan, Martin Riggs VS John Mclane, Josie wales VS Rooster Cogburn etc. At least then they would have an excuse for being so far fetched and rediculous.

==IRA Vs. Taliban==
I was kind of annoyed by the errors this show typically displays as always, but some notable ones were on Sunday with the IRA vs. Taliban episode. They claimed the Irish Republican Army used the "Armalite AR-15" as their main weapon, yet I was always under the impression they used the Armalite AR-18. And aside from that, hasn't Colt been the producer of the "AR-15" since the 70s? The guns they used on the show were M16A2/Colt AR-15 A2 HBAR rifles anyway, not Armalite guns. And they somehow tried to show the AK-47 was superior to an AR-15 by slapping a huge amount of mud on the action and pouring water down the barrel. The AK of course didn't jam and the AR did, but that's a dumb test. A gun can get dirty and jam up but if it gets THAT dirty, it isn't even a fair trial. Also, they compared an LPO-50 flamethrower to an RPG-7 (Norinco Type 69)? One is good for 20ft another can hit out at 300m. That's fair. And they claim both are MID-RANGE weapons. Also, they couldn't get the actual flamethrower used in the one incident, so they used this propane tank flamethrower that barely worked. And then they compare the slingshot to the bayonet. WTF??!! One is a hand-to-hand blade fixed to the muzzle of a gun, the slingshot is a mid-range projectile launcher. And if the IRA used it, it was more effetive than what they showed on the show. This show is dumb, I only watch it now because my friends told me it is awesome and I watch just to tear it down. Plus in the Gangsters episode, they kept saying "clip" instead of magazine, which was seriously pissing me off. And listening to David Wenham say the "British Sten uses a 30-round clip" made me want to kill everyone who makes this show. And the use of the term "drum-clip" is just insipid. There are better shows on sunday. Like Family Guy. I was mad I had to miss that just to watch this crap. Well, there's my review :) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:You are right. The IRA did use AR-18s instead of AR-15s and i don't think that the IRA has a main weapon. Hell, i don't think that any guerrilla groups have main weapons. They just take what they can get, the only reason AKs are so common with guerrillas are because the Soviet Union and China gave those away like candy to enemies of the united States and because they are extremely easy to manufacture, and the use of the word clip in the show pisses me the fuck off. The computer guy also is extremely annoying. I want to shove a M67 up his ass.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

:I agree, I mean, they even said in the show the IRA also uses AKs. The "British" troops with M16s is very inaccurate, since no one in the British military outside the SAS, SBS or other Special Forces uses M16 weapons. This is an even more insulting episode than the Green Berets vs the Spetsnaz! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:57, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

::During the height of the IRA bombings, the British army still had the [FN FAL#L1A1|L1A1 SLR]] and Sterling SMGs. The Brits never used the M16 out side elite or non-conventional units. MPM2008
Well the British forces did have numerous AR15 type rifles in inventry for use by troops in jungle enviroments, such as Brunei and Belize. British troops from most infantry regiments could expect to do a rotation in ether country for jungle warfare training. Whilst the SLR was the most common rifle seen in Northern Ireland prior to the adoption of the SA80 series, AR15s were used there by non Spec Ops troops.

:The slingshot vs bayonet comparison definitely ties with ballistic knife vs E-tool as the absolute worst mismatches I've ever seen. And after the Luger/P-38 fiasco and those so-called "Green Berets" and "Spetznaz" making complete fools out of themselves by knowing pretty much squat about their weapons, I didn't think it could get any worse.I wonder what's next on this show. Bloods vs Crips? Rainbow Six vs Ghost Recon? Sam Fisher vs Solid Snake? Old Lady vs Pickpocket? Sheesh... When it first premiered, I really enjoyed the show, but now... [[Special:Contributions/24.7.190.251|24.7.190.251]] 03:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:This is the LAST episode. I really HOPE there is no season 2, but if there is, I'll be there to screen cap it. And I wouldn't be surprise if it's gang bangers vs other gangs. And I'd bet on Solid Snake more than Sam Fisher and Rainbow Six over Ghost Recon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

:No, I've got better ones: LAPD vs Blackwater and George Bush vs Barack Obama. XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:30, 3 June 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

::Blackwater win over LAPD since the latter is a band of ex-military SF mercs, so no competition there. And if you want Bush vs Obama, just look at their presidencies and decided who wins or hope Celebrity Death match makes one. I'd say the LAPD SWAT vs the Columbian FARC. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree that Blackwater has TONS of combat vets in their ranks. Bush versus Obama, we're not talking politics here, then '''only ONE of them had any military training, and he flew F-104 Starfighters''', so there's no comparison. So you have a 'community organizer' vs 'fighter pilot' neither one has useful small arms or hand to hand training so it's kind of a moot point. Overall the show is supremely retarded. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:24, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

:The most understated thing said so far. The show is supremely retard! Thank you [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:45, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
::The Green Berets and Spetznaz guys know absolutely jack shit about guns. and i agree with you MPM, this show is supremely retarded but it's Spike TV so what do you expect?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:05, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

::::The Provisional IRA had both AR-15s and AR-18s, and some M16s as well. These were all weapons purchased by their Irish-American sympathizers in the U.S.; the M16s were stolen from Camp LeJune, while the AR-15s and AR-18s were purchased at gun stores. Qaddafi sent them large amounts of Communist bloc weaponry, including AKs (mostly Romanian AIMs), RPG-7s, DShKs, RGD-5 grenades, and CZ-75s. Qaddafi sent them some Western-made guns, too, including "Wonder Nines", FN MAGs, and the LPO-50s. But the IRA almost never used the LPO-50s, except in a single recorded incident at an Army checkpoint.

::::I also found it interesting that they glossed over the fact that the IRA was actually one of the very first terrorist groups in the world to use the RPG-7 (they first used RPGs as early as 1972). But anyway, I think it's a really ridiculous comparison because the IRA and the Taliban are completely different types of groups. The IRA is more of a gang than a guerrilla army, and would be squeamish if they had to engage in the sort of activities that the Taliban do regularly. Euro-commie radical wanna-bes vs. Islamist tribal mountain savages = the savages win. Not to mention that the Taliban's fund-raising practices are WAY above the IRA's. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

It funny how these people are like rrr "I am super awesome mega warrior" It is just funny how they call themselves experts. wouldn't they actually shoot each other or be arrested for terrorist activities? Beeteles

:It seems like all these experts are all assholes too that look at the opposing side as weak jerk offs [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Every time I watch this show, I end up laughing like hell, with their so called experts who keep flinching every time they fire a gun, hilarious. Also in the Spetznaz vs. Green Berets episode, the Spetznaz "sniperexpert" misses almost half of his shots, I mean WHAT THE FUCK, even I, the worst shooter in the world, could hit that target evey time with that kind of weapon, it's built for this job and he still misses. And he claims to be a former sniper, well time to work on your skills dumbass. -Jacco Croon-

== This Page ==
This Page needs alot of work. I will try to fix it later.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:40, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

:What do you mean "Alot of work"? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
::What i mean is that the screencaps need captions and some of the sections have no gun-pictures. It's more of "alot of work" as in quantity not difficulty.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Well some of the sections without gun pictures is because I didn't know which guns they were. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

== "Experts??" ==

I don't think that anyone on either side of the "Green Beret vs Spetnatz had been an "expert" for ten years or more. I meen the Green Beret was pathetic with the beretta and he had a beer belly that sticks out 20".-beeteles
:''Far be it for me to deem anyone's status at anything...I really think that the experts they get are actors who were just slightly better than the Z-list "talent" they got to do the re-enactments.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 02:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
::I'm sure the "experts" are retarded actors that don't know a goddamm thing about guns or anything military in general.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Case in point, Matt the Green Beret thinking his M4 was capable of both full auto and mechanical burst. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
::::And I've never met a Green Beret who actually wore his green beret into the field. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::::I have, but they were Nam era Green Berets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 03:22, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

It also comes to mind that SF wouldn't typically be chosen for the type of "mission" that was portrayed in the closing battle. An op like that would normally be assigned to Rangers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:55, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
:Really? Being not that informed or smart in shit like that,I always thought it was the enemy or situation that matterednot the operation. But again,I suck at shit like that. [[User:Pump_Shotty_Justice|Pump_Shotty_Justice]]
::Different units have different applications. SF would typically be dropped behind enemy lines to train indigenous forces and build alliances with them, while Rangers would carry out direct action missions. SF ''can'' do the latter, but they don't specialize in it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:47, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

\

dary weapon, never a primary when it comes to a fireteam, unless you're in SWAT or something. M9s, M11s, MEUs, etc etc, each Green Beret or Special Forces soldier has his choice of what kind of firearms he wants to carry.
overall...bullshit

do ya know what really pissedmeoff. when the spetznaz soldier threw the grenade in the washing machine he walked off and lit up a smoke like he was some badass cool soldier. very unproffesional. and made him look like a jackass. Im a jackass if i was on COD, which i am while i jerk off im an 8 year old--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:24, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

:So what? The Mafia guy put a rose into the pocket of a dummy after he mowed it down with his tommy gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:04, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Why exactly does the image comment on the Benelli M3 say that the M4 would do better? As far as I know, they are both semi-auto tubular-magazine shotguns with similar capacities; all the M4 brings to the table is its special stock, which doesn't add up to a significant advantage over a regular tactical stock unless you're talking varied terrain or engagement ranges (going from medium to CQB to short range and back again). I haven't seen this newer episode with the M3 (I only saw the one with the Remington M870 or something), but they probably used it in pump-action only (for that extra dose of bullshit).

[[Special:Contributions/70.118.116.239|70.118.116.239]]

:Actually it's a typo. I was refering to the M3, not the M4 since the M4 wasn't in the screen cap. I was saying that another semi auto would be better to compare to a semi auto shotgun like the Saiga [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:33, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Except the Benelli M3 is selective; you can switch between pump-action and semi-auto (the semi-auto has the same functionality as the Benelli M1, which is more or less the gold standard of rapid-response semi-auto shotguns; how can the Saiga, a re-purposed 12 Gauge variant of a sporter version of an AK, stack up to a purpose-built tactical shotgun?).

In all honesty, it really doesn't matter about fairness, because the whole test was rigged to begin with. We're talking about the same show that put a siege weapon against a battle axe.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

==Meant for Entertainment==

I do not believe this show is meant to be taken seriously, rather it is meant for entertainment and possibly sending people into fits about whatever historical badass they were rooting for. I agree that the test ARE ridiculous, unbalanced and often seem rigged but I think the show was meant for viewing pleasure and a springboard for calm discussions rather than a reason to shout and call foul. Anybody with a brain, nay half a brain, could see that these tests and "experts" are fictitious. Hell, the "advanced system" they claim to use is MS Excel. Therefore I can only logically conclude that the show is not and never was meant to be taken seriously.By the way, the RPG-7 appears to be a a Norico copy.[[User:UH-H1|Bumblebear]]

:The RPG also seems to be a fake cause the way it was fired, it looked like special effects. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::This would be a good show if they didn't fudge the "tests" and just pitted two very different people against each other. The problem with the show is that it's ridiculous, AND it tries to look real and scientific. Seriously, ditch the fake science, and Spike would be sitting on a f*cking goldmine. Zombies vs. Delta Force? Win. Pirates vs. ninjas? Epic win.--[[Special:Contributions/70.121.214.203|70.121.214.203]] 20:43, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I actually like this show, even though they may never show it in Australia, but I watched several episodes on the internet and it's interesting and ridiculously funny.

If they were going for shock value and the coolness factor, they would have used Simunition and a hit-detection rig instead of this "programmer" bullshit. Why did they throw the science in if they're going to just half-ass it? They should pack it in and just go for maximum collateral, like everything else that involves guns and Spike TV.

[[Special:Contributions/70.118.116.239|70.118.116.239]]

==Season 2==
Bad news people,there is going to be a second season. --[[Special:Contributions/66.168.55.164|66.168.55.164]] 01:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC) (ThePotShot)

So???

:What next? Delta vs Chinese special forces? LA SWAT vs Columbians? Abraham Lincoln vs Hitler? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Hey, those aren't very bad ideas. Maybe they might have them in future episodes. Also can we please cut down on the criticism because like what they said earlier this show isn't meant to be taken seriously and is rather more for entertainment.

:::I got it! MALL NINJAs versus COD Fanboys! Woo hoo! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:34, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

:No no, Mall Ninjas vs REAL ninjas and COD fanboys vs Battlefield fanboys [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Two new matchups- Attila the Hun v/s Alexander Great and Nazi SS v/s Viet Cong (WTF?) has been confirmed for Season 2 they are also doing jesse james gang vs al capone's too which seems a little one sided [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_Warrior#cite_note-18].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:39, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

::See, neither of those make sense. Attila and Alexander were better as generals then warriors, as opposed to Wallace and Zulu, who were both revered as capable fighters. The Nazi SS and the Vietcong doesn't even begin to make sense. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:59, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

According to wiki, there will be a CIA vs KGB, which is also...pretty vague. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Do you think they should do North Korean Army vs South Korean Army?

James Bond vs Jasone Bourne might be nice (Bourne wins)

Here's seaason 2's match ups,,according to Wikipedia:

SWAT vs. GSG-9: ''Ther'e both SWAT right?''

Aztec Jaguar vs. Zande Warrior ''Who's a zande?''

A Zande is essentially a north african tribal warrior... ~kinda~ like a zulu but with their own unique style of weapons

Jesse James Gang vs. Al Capone Gang ''Uhm, Thompsons vs revolvers. no contest''

Persian Immortal vs. Celt ''Ok, maybee''

Roman Centurion vs. India's Rajput Warrior

Somali Pirate vs. Medellin Cartel ''Guy with ruty AK vs guy with unlimited budget for wepons? Medellin win''

KGB vs. CIA ''What are they supposed to use?''

Vlad the Impaler vs. Sun Tzu ''Uhm, Sun was a THINKER, not a warrior, and Vlad is an overrated psycho.''

Ming Warrior vs. Musketeer

Comanche vs. Mongol

Navy Seal vs. Israeli Commandos ''Might be good''

:Ming Warrior vs. Musketeer - Musketeer has...guns. GSG-9 is German special forces. They are one of the world's first modern spec ops. They'll win. Attila the Hun v/s Alexander Great, they both had to be warriors on the field, because unlike Generals of today, back then, you have to be a good fighter to lead and these 2 live in similar times, so it's very possible. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

The Ming dynasty covers the 14th-17th century and utilized firearms as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musketeer#Musketeers_in_China. Maybe we'll see matchlock vs. flintlock? I imagine they'll bugger it up fairly badly.

Actually on the website they show "bio" pics of the ming warrior with some kind of 4 barreled handganon and the musketeer is the type from the 1600s era with a matchlock musket and plug bayonet so all and all both sides actually have "fairly primative firearms

:I have great expectations for the Navy SEALSs vs. IDF Commandos and SWAT vs. GSG-9 episode (hope the supposed experts do not spoil these two). Whereas the Jesse James vs. Al Capone, Vlad the Impaler vs. Sun Tzu and Ming Warrior vs. Musketeer episode are the most @#!*% selections and even a 8 year old can figure out the winners in the first and last one.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:53, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

::Personally I think the Navy SEALs vs IDF Commandos (um... ''which'' IDF Commandos? IDF has a special unit for everything from CT to cleaning the head...) is gonna turn out just as bad as SF vs Spetsnaz. They're gonna get actors who don't know crap about crap to portray their "experts" [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:31, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

:KGB versus CIA will be weird, because as far as I know they only carry handguns, so not much to compare unless we looks at document filing, penmanship, interrogation, and maybe watercooler conversations. Also, GSG-9 will @#!*% up SWAT, SS vs VC is retarded, and on the Bond thing, let's pull a Goldeneye and have "James Bond vs entire Russian army" cause we know how that works out. [[Special:Contributions/142.167.158.222|142.167.158.222]]

According to this site http://www.isayeret.com/guides/units.htm, Isreal has 31 spceal forces units. Even if only a third are commando-type units, which one fights the SEALs? Flotila 13, the IDF/Navy SEAL equivelent, is best, but who knows. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:03, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

"SS vs VC is retarded". Not so much as it actually happened. When the French started fighting the VC, they sent in the French Foreign Legion, who just cut the VC into ribbons. A journalist did some investigating, and found out that the FFL soldiers were actually former Waffen SS. There was great outrage in France and all of the ex-SS FFL were kicked out. That's when the French started losing. David.

for CIA vs KGB, isnt it possible its the SAD? (Black Ops) so they would probably be armed with a Sig or a Glock for a sidearm, and a heavily customized M4/416

== New complaints of the new season ==

:Just saw the new episode and when the GSG9 guy talked about the PSG-1, he called the mag a clip. Not once but 3 times. That just seemed out of place. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

ahahaha the VC would own the SS regardless. and that was funny when the GSG9 guys called the mag a clip, but they didnt even have a german accent...odd...LOL and why would they use a Mossberg when they have plenty of H&K shotguns...ahahahah this show is still bullshit when it comes to firearms comparision

:They're also inconsistent. During the IRA vs Taliban, they rated the AR-15 higher than the AK. But on the Back for Blood special when they pit the Spetsnaz against the IRA, they suddenly declared the AR-15 and AK to be evenly matched. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

It was funny when they mentioned the pirates and then mention the Somalis and I just laughed cause if you've been keeping up to date, the Somallis aren't having a good track record. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:They should do Navy SEALs vs Somali pirates. They can do all their fancy "tests" and whatnot, but then when the end comes, show a short 30 second clip of SEAL snipers downing the pirates from 300 yards away from the stern section of a frigate. XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:00, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

well to anser Spartan198 qustition/comment it was becuse the taliban used the AK-47 and the spetnaz used the AK-74 carbine (still think it is a bull shit connclushion tho)--[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 12:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I dont know why i still watch this, i really enjoy the non firearm episodes, but seriously, can they sort the 'experts' out. Did anyone else notice one of the GSG9 guys faffing aroung with a winchester trech shotgun, WTF? And dont get me started on the PSW/M4/416 mark your minds up. I also didnt see the point in a non leathal ssection on a show called deadliest warrior. Deadliest. Id much rather have seen a pistol showdown the stun grenades an a wall of tasers, ok rant over. Till next week i guess - captain snikt

@Armyguy277: So? An AK74 is just an AKM chambered for the smaller cartridge. Otherwise, it's the same identical gun. FYI, no AK74s were ever used anywhere in this show. The Spetsnaz were armed with AKMs just like the Taliban were. And the AK74 isn't a carbine, it's a rifle. The carbine version of the 74 is the AKSU-74. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:50, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

In the GSG9 vs SWAT, the guys representing GSG9 weren't even GSG9 operators. One of them is a Gebirgsjäger, mountain infantryman of the Bundeswehr, who was never in the BGS/BPol. The other one, though a GSG9 combat instructor, was an instructor for hand to hand combat. The two SWAT guys on the other hand, were actual D platoon officers. The two German guys are good, but when they do the room clearing, they can't match the speed of someone who actually participate in mission or train everyday.

Also, I found the stingball grenade vs. taser shockwave comparison to be completely bogus since they are totally different class of weapon. When the German guys point out that the stingball is more maneuverable, they just use a single taser and test it on a subject and then declare taser superior. I mean WTF... For me, D platoon could do no wrong, but this show is totally unfair to the GSG9. --[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 19:58, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, the GSG9 guys' time in the room takedown "test" seemed a bit too fast for what they actually did. I also noticed they had a particularly slow rate of fire. I know I counted at least half a second between each of the three rounds one put into that first target dummy. And I'm not too sure of their reasoning for yelling "target" loud enough that everyone in the killhouse could hear. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:47, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Also, and is it just me, but did anyone notice one of the "operators" handling a Winchester 1897? I swear I saw it at one point. Also did the LWRC PSD switch back with a standard M4A1 when they were switching between "prep" and live fire? Also I have to agree with the "comparison" of the stingball/taser shockwave. The stingball would be the more practical of the two whereas the shockwave, though cool looking, is almost impractical. Seriously if riot cops have to set that thing up before use ya think maybe the rioters will rush them before it can be deployed?

In addition the one thing I found odd, and please correct me here, is the SWAT use of lethal force. I was always under the impression that SWAT used lethal force as a last result (yes I know this was a "combat" situation) but, at their core, they are cops who prefer to arrest suspects. I refer specifically to one scene where a SWAT operator guns down a wounded GSG-9 operator. GSG-9 on the other hand is, by their very nature, supposed to do nothing but use deadly force. Rant completed [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 02:09, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

:Well, GSG 9 is technically a police tactical unit too. When the situation permit, they would attempt to arrest suspect too (hence the use of non-leathal weapons such as the stingball). Just as for SWAT, when the lives of civilians or officers are threatened, SWAT officers wouldn't hesitate to use deadly force to neutralize the suspect. As for the combat simulation at the end of the episode, it was the dumbest thing I ever saw. The only amusing part for me was that the taser shockwave proved inferior to the stingball grenade in actual combat. --[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 10:30, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I've always thought GSG-9 were Counter Terrorist special forces kind of group. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

I think it's idiotic to pit a regional rapid-response team to a federal counter-terrorism/mobile response force; it's like trying to compare an officer of the Gendarmerie Nationale against FBI special agents. It would have made much more sense to use the FBI HRT, GIGN, or equivalent. Also, their entire method of testing is just bullcrap. I say use Simunition and a hit detection rig and let them at each other; for hand-to-hand, there are plenty of compact force detection rigs, and I'm sure that almost all of these organizations have cross-trained before.

[[Special:Contributions/70.118.116.239|70.118.116.239]]

==G36C, Season 1?==

The section of Season 1 that was about the G36C was wrong. It incorrectly labeled the gun, since it was a G36K, not a G36C. I've fixed it, but if anyone wants to inspect it to make sure I'm not just seeing things, go ahead. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 00:41, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

==Just Pathetic==

I was quite stoked for the new season. But when I watched the IRA vs Spetsnaz bit on the special, I noticed that when the announcer describes the G3 sniper rifle, the fucking picture beside him is a G36K! I could understand a slight mistake, but considering these are two COMPLETELY different weapons of different eras, that's plainly unacceptable. [[Special:Contributions/142.167.158.222|142.167.158.222]]

:They did the same thing with the Walther P38 and had the stat image be a Luger [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:I believe we have now officially left the land of "Did Not Do Their Research", and have entered the realm of "They Just Didn't Care."--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 22:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

::As horrible as their firearm "tests" and the like have been so far, they just totally blew them all out of the water with the Alexander the Great vs Attila the Hun episode. They compared a one-handed Hunnic battle axe to a freaking BALLISTA! A ''melee weapon'' vs a ''siege engine''? Seriously, WTF?! That's like comparing an M9 bayonet to the 120mm main gun on an Abrams tank! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

==Uhhh. What????==
Ok I've watched a couple episodes and I have to say this show is ........... well it's stupid. That's the only way I can describe it. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 22:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I think we all agree on that [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Yeah, comparing a battle axe designed for melee combat to a ballista designed to attack structures and large formations was the last straw. This show has lost all credibility. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:18, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about ya, but has Spike TV received any complaints though???

Online fan complaints are always going on [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== I am now pissed! ==

A grenade vs a Winchester repeating rifle?! The Tommygun vs the peacemaker?! Brass Knuckles vs pistol whipping someone. And Al Capone LOSES to the cowboys?! This show never ceases to piss me off. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Man that was rigged! Besides I know more about gangster weapons compared to cowboy weapons.

It wasn't rigged they rightfully took into account that Jesse James and his boys had more experiance in marksmanship and built up speed when aligning their sights

Mobsters would most likely use a .38 snub nosed revolver of some sort while the James gang would have a mix of Remington, S&W and Colt. Also, mobsters usually shot people from behind, rarely getting into gun fights-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:15, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I have to agree with the earlier comment. I believe that this was one episode where they actually made sense. The Thompson is a submachine gun but they make a valid point in that the James gang could easily outdraw a mobster and put them down before they could bring up the Thompson. The only part I didn't get was the stiletto versus the Bowie knife. More concealable? What does that have to do with anything. The Bowie is easily the more deadlier in my opinion.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 23:17, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

It's probably easier to bring to bear (a Bowie is a pretty decent chunk of steel, whereas the stiletto is the equivalent of a sharpened steel rod with a handle), but I agree, once you get it upon your enemy, they don't stand a chance. [[Special:Contributions/70.118.116.239|70.118.116.239]]

Anyone else cringe when he pistol whipped the skull with the chamber and barrel of the pistol and not the butt, hope he wasnt planning on using that gun to shoot with if he pisto whips like that - Captain Snikt

Probably put the damn thing out of lock. [[Special:Contributions/70.118.116.239|70.118.116.239]]

:::::I'm waiting for fluffy pillow versus toxic Fart.......[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:50, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

In answer to the Pistol whipping question, that's how they used to pistol whip people, with the barrel/ cylinder area.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

In fact, the Remington Model 1858 was popular with Lawmen of the period for the simple reason that it was a solid frame compared to Colt's early models which weren't. Pistol whipping was a whole lot less harmful to a solid frame. The Peacemaker was made the same way. You would have pistol whipped them with the barrel unless you were highly proficient with the bandit shift you wouldn't want to take your finger that far away from the trigger. These were fixed sight guns so you didn't have to worry about knocking the sights out of alignment. And as they proved you weren't going to damage the guns as your head is of a much weaker material.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 21:01, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

== NAZI vs Vietcong ==

The gun match ups are just stupid for the NAZIs, I mean, they have the C96 for their handgun when the Luger is known for the gun of Germans or even the Walther P-38, but I understand not the P38 cause they did it already in the Yakuza episode. And no MP40? And a flamethrower? They've already done a Flamerthrower for the IRA, why another one? I guess they don't want the AK or any AK variants for the Vietcong? This was just disappointing. They don't even take into account that the Vietcong is jungle warfare vs the NAZIs SS that never had jungle warfare training. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:You might as well stop bitching about this show's infinite stupidity, because everyone knows this show is made by mall ninjas, for mall ninjas. I can't imagine how many points my IQ dropped when I watched the IRA/Taliban match-up. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:47, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::A bit of history for both of you. After WWII was over the French absorbed a fairly large number of German troops into their Foriegn Legion. These German trained troops were actily fighting the Viet Mihn and kicking ass. Unfortunatly for the French some reporter broke the story that the French Government were using former German troops including members of the SS. The result was a purge of the ranks of the Foreign Legion. Soon afterwards the French being...well the french started seriously getting their tail kicked. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 07:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually this episode impressed me the most out of all the others. The Waffen SS, as they were the descendants and conquerors of the dreaded Brownshirts, favored the Mauser C96. A lot of them liked the greater ammo capacity and armor piercing capability of the 7.63mm. The MP 28 was the first issued submachine gun as it was the first that was manufactured when they broke the Versailles treaty. As for pitting it against the MAT 49, it was a fair matchup. They would have had a lot of MAT 49's left when the French were defeated. Yes this show gets a lot of stuff wrong but they are trying to do a fantasy on a thirty minute tv show as best they can. So stop bitching so much. If you had to list the entire arsenal used by the Viet Cong, you'd be here for a while. They used everything and anything they could. The choices were good. They were supplied by the Russians which explains the TT 33 as well as the MAT 49. All in all the show is entertaining. Yes they get things wrong. What show doesn't every now and then? I think that they are getting better about things though.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 16:49, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I know they've done AKs before, but how can you picture Vietcong without an AK47? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:40, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

And wouldn't it make more sense to pit Chechen separatists or the Taliban against the Vietcong? Why do they make a point of comparing two entities in entirely different categories? Like the SWAT vs. GS9. Why would you put a regional, local response organization against a federal rapid response unit?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

The same could be asked why a guy with a SAA can defeat guys with freaking Tommy GUNS!!!! 07:15, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Easy when one does exactly as they did. Fire first, hit first or come around the back and hit them. Just because one group had a tommy gun doesn't automatically mean he wins. Wyatt Earp said, "Fast is fine, accurate is final". He may have had the most rapid fire weapon but they proved that emptying a fifty round drum only produced one or two shots on a person. The James Gang had a higher ratio with their humble SAA's. Its oftentimes not the gun but the gunfighter that decides it. The James gang were well versed in firearms and tactics. Capone's gang was a bunch of thugs who used brute force and short ambushes to win. Capone's hits himself were pulled on unsuspecting men who had no chance to defend themselves. Jesse and Frank James fought Union regular army units face to face.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 00:54, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Only a foolish man would underestimate a SAA in a trained hand...full auto is ONLY good for cover fire. [[Spades of Columbia]]

:I'd pick a Tommy simply because it has more range, stopping power, more ammo and rapid fire. Not just in full auto, but semi auto. I'd be able to keep the guy with the six shooter down under I can flank him or short burst to control accuracy. That alone would give me an overpowering advantage against a guy with 2 SAA. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:22, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Excalibur, you would, and I would, just as a trained warrior would. But Capone's gang were not trained. The only thing they had any experience with is shooting unsuspecting men or drive by shootings. Even the most effective example of the Thompson's power was the St. Valentine's Day Massacre, though they relied on subterfuge and lined up the victims against the wall. The argument still stands. Both groups were used to standing and shooting it out. The James gang would have one being as they were the first to draw, the first to fire, and most importantly the first to hit. I would choose the Thompson over the SAA if I was going into battle. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 00:14, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Has everyone forgotten how big, heavey, and uncomfortable the tommy gun is. Jesse would have his SAA unholstered and fired before capone and anyone else trained or otherwise could even shoulder the tommy. The tommy looks cool but that is it, not easy to be accurate with and a pain to lug around. Plus a .45LC could do a hell alot more damage then a standard .45 acp. [[Spades of Columbia]]

The thompsons would be out and firing at greatter range than the SAA. Its not like youd be doing duels and quickdraws with a SMG. And seriously, grenades for longrange? Again, a thompson would be kicking ass.
-[[k9870]]

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2010-06-04T18:39:18Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Change made to 1911 article/picture */

Talk:Burn Notice

2010-06-04T18:02:26Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* HK USP compact 45 */

==Lol Wut?==
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: "I know that in the new Burn Notice episode "Question & Answer," a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is "Double Down" look it up." Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.

Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)

:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the "Edit" button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).

::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester

::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW

:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor

:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:

:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on "The Unit"). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.

:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like "not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle" instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked. That's definetly not a Jericho. I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model. Here's the image I got

[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

It is either a S&W 4006 or S&W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

== Fiona's assault rifle ==

I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).

It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?

== Sam's Rifle ==
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona. Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing. It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR. I don't think it's an SR-25. They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

==Mark 23==
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!

==sig 226==

i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,

==Errors==
2 Errors of note: The Steyr is a Remington 700. The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present. It's not a ProHunter either.

The Winchester 1300's aren't either. Note the lack of v-shaped reciever. They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.

I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]

==Accuracy International==

During the episode "Double Booked" Michael apparently assembles an "AI AWC" but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.

== Desert Eagle ==

Added Desert Eagle to handgun list. Season 3 Episode 4 "Fearless Leader". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010
(UTC)

== Beretta Tomcat==

In Season 3 Episode 8 "Friends Like These". Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.
==Sig not Glock==
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered Glock 19.]]
- This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?

==HK USP compact 45==
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.

on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45

==Fiona's M1==
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''
 

:''The "Family Business" M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in "Turn and Burn."

==Fiona's rifle==
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?

I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle

I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&catalog_=B

==S3Ep13==
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==

Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

== Great show ==
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, right on. "Honey! I got you a S&W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!" --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== cz 75 ==

in season 3 episode 6 "the hunter" Michael and his new friend John Beck uses czech cz 75 pistole.
[[Image:Bn1.jpg]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg]]

==BNS4==
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Talk:Burn Notice

2010-06-04T17:50:15Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Formatting */

==Lol Wut?==
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: "I know that in the new Burn Notice episode "Question & Answer," a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is "Double Down" look it up." Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.

Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)

:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the "Edit" button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).

::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester

::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW

:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor

:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:

:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on "The Unit"). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.

:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like "not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle" instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked. That's definetly not a Jericho. I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model. Here's the image I got

[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

It is either a S&W 4006 or S&W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

== Fiona's assault rifle ==

I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).

It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?

== Sam's Rifle ==
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona. Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing. It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR. I don't think it's an SR-25. They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

==Mark 23==
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!

==sig 226==

i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,

==Errors==
2 Errors of note: The Steyr is a Remington 700. The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present. It's not a ProHunter either.

The Winchester 1300's aren't either. Note the lack of v-shaped reciever. They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.

I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]

==Accuracy International==

During the episode "Double Booked" Michael apparently assembles an "AI AWC" but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.

== Desert Eagle ==

Added Desert Eagle to handgun list. Season 3 Episode 4 "Fearless Leader". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010
(UTC)

== Beretta Tomcat==

In Season 3 Episode 8 "Friends Like These". Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.
==Sig not Glock==
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered Glock 19.]]
- This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?

==HK USP compact 45==
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.

==Fiona's M1==
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''
 

:''The "Family Business" M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in "Turn and Burn."

==Fiona's rifle==
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?

I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle

I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&catalog_=B

==S3Ep13==
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==

Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

== Great show ==
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, right on. "Honey! I got you a S&W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!" --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== cz 75 ==

in season 3 episode 6 "the hunter" Michael and his new friend John Beck uses czech cz 75 pistole.
[[Image:Bn1.jpg]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg]]

==BNS4==
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Talk:Medal of Honor (2010)

2010-06-04T17:44:46Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* Green Beret on cover */

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

2010-05-27T19:36:31Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* M4 */

Note: This talk page is for discussion related to the '''article'''. Do not use it to argue about how H&K pwnz Colt, it is safe to say nobody cares.
<big>TO ARCHIVE</big>
__TOC__

==Computer thingy==
I know not the right place to ask but I'm going mad whats the thing your characters wears around their arms like a gps module or something I have seen it in documentaries some soldier even had a similar one mounted on a G36 stock so its not fictional anyone know whats its called?

Answer: its a garmin gps unit. https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=257&ra=true#

==KNIFE==
http://www.coldsteel.com/gitanto.html this is Soaps Knife in the end.

Well I believe the knife that Soap used at the end is the "Boker Plus Tactical Tanto Fixed", as this knife has been reported to be quite recently issued to the Armed Forces.

Here is a picture of the knife.[[Image:http://www.heinnie.com/uploads/images_products_large/3158.jpg]]

:Your picture doesn't work. Beyond that, this game has nothing to do with what is actually issued to armed forces(Russians with the AUG? Brazilians with the F2000?) so that's not really evidence tbh... [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 22:03, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==USP==
Wouldn't the USP be a USP teactical. The tacticals have threaded barrels as present on the in game USPs. Or are they some kind of hybrid because they don't use the tactical sights?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

The USP in game is a normal USP .45, the only difference is the threaded barrel. The Tactical has a bunch of other differences including the sights. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:47, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

That's my point. Since it has both the characteristics of a tactical and a normal USP would it be a hybrid?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Maybe, let's call it a USP .45 Custom then. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:13, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Now that I take a closer look at it, the slide has sights that look more like the HK45 than the USP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:52, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

:You could put different sights on the USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Yes but this USP has a threaded barrel so... Aw crap. If we could see the slide we could just say it was a tactical or a USP but it's just some crazy ass combo USP.

Edit*
Nvm I just popped in the game. On the side it said USP without tactical so it is a USP with a threaded barrel.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

==Archive?==
I think it's getting to be time to archive this talk page and start fresh, considering it's 166 kb long? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:59, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS ironsights==
I have identified the ironsights used on the FAMAS in-game. They are folding rail-mounted BUIS from Midwest Industries. Interestingly, they are also the standard sights that come with the RobArms XCR (which I really wish was in more games).
==ACR==
Since it's the military version in-game, shouldn't it be referred to as the '''Remington''' ACR? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:01, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
:Oh, wait, it is. Never Mind. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:02, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Its being made by bushmaster. Why the remington logo?
:Bushmaster is making the semi-auto only civilian version, Remington is making the selective-fire military/LE version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:14, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

really? i thought remington bought the ACR from them completely [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:20, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Interesting news. The ACR has now been officially released and it the ACR in MW2 is a fake combination of parts. The ACR Basic Configuration has the original handguard from the Magpul Masada, but a different skeleton stock similar to the Magpul MOE or CTR stocks. The ACR Enhanced Configuration has the new squared-off CR handguard with rails and the more iconic ACR stock. The ACR in-game, however, has the ACR Basic handguard (don't be fooled by the fact that there are rails, it's just the original Masada handguard with rails attached) and the ACR Enhanced stock. I'd call it a Magpul Masada, seeing as the trademarks and such aren't discernible as anything real. --[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 19:34, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Seeing as the in-game model is taken directly from the ACR featured on FutureWeapons, which was the Magpul version, that makes sense. -CC

==Taped Mags==
I noticed that several of the assualt rifles have tape wrapped around the magazines, is this for a specific reason or just a choice made by the makers? [[User:Death|Death]]

Lots of soldiers in the army tape the ends of their mags to distinguish theirs from a buddies, or the mags that they actually bought if they feel their issued ones were overused or sub par. Some also put grip tape so sweaty hands don't slip when pulling them from their pouches. I'm sure game designers saw this and included it. [[User:Winglebest]]

i thought that so whether you put the mag in bottom up or not, you'd know which end to put into the magazine well.
:anyone who's been properly trained with firearms wouldn't do that. Full magazines always go into the pouch with the brass facing down.

==Weapon on newspaper==
Hey for anyone who has played the game,do you think the rifle from the newspaper they showed when talking about Makarov should be included?

:I personally wouldn't have any issue with it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:08, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Alrigh good, maybe someone will post a picture up on the internet andwe could add that

post at 9 January 2010 --[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 14:03, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

this is Daewoo K2
[[Image:Daewoo-K2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Daewoo K2 Assault rifle - 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Mw2k2.png|thumb|none|500px|Daewoo K2 Assault rifle - 5.56mm]]

but where have IMI Galil ?
the left Ultra-nationalist with a Galil ?
[[Image:Mw2Galil.png|thumb|none|500px| ]]

==Suggestions==
I think the page needs the F2000 and TAR-21 with their special sights. Also, if anyone is looking for a screen of the M14 EBR with nothing attached, there's one in the spec ops mission where you breach the gulag wall. Oh, and we need the GP-25 included. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 19:40, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

:The TAR-21 on the page ''already'' has a MARS sight on it. And the F2000 on the page is the same version used in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:11, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::There are no in-game screens of the MARS sight and the F2000's standard scope is in the game as the RDS in multiplayer, or "scoped" in singleplayer.
:::http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:F2000FP.jpg

No one ever went through with this? --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:42, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

==winchester 1887 loading animation==

Is it supposed to load through reciever like that?
\
:Yes -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

::Sort of. The animation shows the rounds being placed in the upper tube (the barrel) rather than the lower tube (the magazine). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

It is wierd, but 1887's do load that way.
When you pull the cocking lever down the top of the breech kind of rolls back and opens.
The shells slip into the breech, past the chamber and down into the tube magazine below the barrel.
They're slow and a little clumsy to reload IRL. You have to push the shell down into the magazine tube past the stop with your thumb.
You can get a close look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE9WD9Fihks

:::This one looks like the cowboy action shooter style thats made to quickly load 2 shots, usually custom jobs but I believe Legacy Arms -> Puma Arms is currently selling one. Since in cowboy action shooting you can only have a maximum of 2 rounds in a shotgun. [[Special:Contributions/24.177.167.87|24.177.167.87]]Pawnstar

== Price's 1911 ==
Actually its in the game it can be picked up and used in the museum, don't know about MP though.

*It's not featured in MP, it's exclusive to the single player level Museum, though I have heard you can find it during an early mission, much in the same way as to how the desert eagle in MW was found on Crew Expendable (the only one in the entire SP campaign btw). Apparently on one of the loading screens, it details the weapon as a GI 1911 (unsure of the manufactuer) compared to what it was in Modern Warfare, a Springfield Armoury 1911 Professional model. [[Draco122|Draco122]]

On one of the loading scenes I think it said it was a colt.

The one used by price is a springer pro, colt's just a more recognizable name to put in loading screens.

Yeah, most definitely NOT a Colt. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not arguing about the policies of IMFDB, or what the 1911 is listed as, but it is possible that the 1911 in-game is a Colt. Just look at "The Punisher (2004)" page and take a good look at his custom pistols. They started out as standard Colt 1911's and ended up like that with all the upgrades put on it. Give me a standard Colt and enough money and I can promise you I'll make it look just like the 1911 in game. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 06:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
:And the logic in making a Colt look exactly like a Springer Pro is...? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:40, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
::To validate my argument. Or if you find yourself the owner of a standard Colt 1911 and wish to make it look and function better without buying a new gun. The military was thinking along the same lines with the MEU SOC. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 12:42, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

== M93R ==
There is a confirmation of the M93R machine pistol to be unlocked in MW2 online as confirmed in this video at the bottom of this page

http://modernwarfare247.com/news/multiplayer-unlocks - Madax XX

CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO ADD PICTURES ONTO A PAGE ?????????????

Somebody change the part where it says "Beretta 92FS converted to burst-fire," it's obviously a Beretta M93R are and not a 92FS. --[[User:Frostbite249|Frostbite249]] 13:43, 6 January 2010 (UTC)-

No, it's a 92. The weapon in game has the safety mounted on the slide, like the 92, whereas the 93 has it mounted on the frame. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure that's fine and all, but at least clear it up so there's no misunderstandings - I mean it says "converted to ''full auto''" when in-game, it's only 3 round burst. --[[User:Frostbite249|Frostbite249]] 13:50, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
:Then maybe "converted to ''selective fire''" is a bit better wording? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

== Who saw this video, 92, FS or SB? ==
The video with the Beretta M9, Ive not seen, Is it a 92 FS or SB?, i mean this isn't my site but still putting M9 just make's it as noobs are running the place, lol sorry, so who has the link to the video?
*It is impossible to understand it from video. The only place this pistol appears is shown on the screenshot, the trigger guard is not seen, so i decided to discribe it as military modification, M9. I don't think, that it is a big problem for you to write what is this pistol realy is, whan we will have a better view.

Didn't mean to offended you, it's just most people come to this site to get correct info on weapons, but i suppose putting M9 isn't that bad considering that its the correct name, i just feel its lack of info.

Its the 92SB again, you can tell on its Create-A-Class picture

== Airsoft ==
I like airsoft as much as the next guy, but we already have pictures of ''real'' M4A1s and MP5Ks on the site, so no need to replace them with pics of airsoft replicas. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, but the "real" M4A1s and MP5Ks in the game don't look like those pictures; for the sake of identification, wouldn't it just be simpler to use images that at least look like the weapons from the game, whether they're real or not? Besides, there are plenty of other pages that use airsoft images, so why should this one be an exception?
:Biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of. As you can see on the [[M16 rifle series|M16]] and [[Heckler & Koch MP5|MP5]] pages, we have plenty of pictures of the real things, so no need to add airsoft replicas to the page instead. Whether or not they're equipped with a specific rail system or not is moot, since the rail systems in question are pictured beneath the weapons and the addition of them ''on'' the weapons doesn't change anything. An M4 is still an M4 and an MP5K is still an MP5K. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:There has always been guns we see in movies that have been customized and don't look like the stock photos of the gun unmodded. It's best to have a picture of the real thing than a fake that LOOKS like the one used in the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
:Then shouldn't all the other airsoft pictures (such as the Custom 1911 seen on the MGS4 page and the Cutlass on the Black Lagoon page, and even the Springfield Armory M1911 on CoD4's and MW2's page) be replaced with stock pictures? If you're gonna insist on this, you might as well go all the way.
::As I've already pointed out, '''biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of'''. So those images are there '''because we don't have pics of the real things'''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

For the record, I'm in favor of pictures of the weapons modded or detailed as they are seen in the movie or game. Chances are the link takes you to the base page for them anyway, so you can see a picture of the real deal. Someone might be looking for a picture of the gun that is identical to how it is in the film or game. Whether it's airsoft or not to me seems moot as long as it is the weapon in question. Of course, no orange tips, please. -- ZG
:The problem I have with all Airsoft guns is that they all scream "FAKE!" to those of us who spend alot of time around the real thing. Now as placeholders until we get a real weapon image I don't mind as it's a placeholder. Useing an airsoft gun insted of a real firearm that we have an image of that I just don't like. We do get the occational screem used weapon here and even when those have been beat to hell they are much better than the most realistic airsoft gun.--[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:48, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Replaced the airsoft M4A1 with the pic of a real one yet again. It doesn't matter whether it looks exactly like it does in-game or not. An M4A1 is an M4A1, regardless of what it looks like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

But if you could find a picture of what it looks like exactly in the game, wouldn't you use it? -- ZG

:The inclusion of a few tacticool accessories is not enough of a reason to waste server space on even more photos of a weapon we already have a number of photos of. For the third time, an M4A1 is an M4A1 regardless of what kind of rail system and whatnot is on it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I (not that it matters) am perfectly fine with pictures of the real deal and I love the effort that's gone into posting such great screenshots. I just hope the trend keeps with noting what particular accessories are present. I'm one of those douchebags that sees guns in the movies and thinks "Golly! I want mine to look just like that!" In any case, I love the site and it hasn't let me down yet. -- ZG

:Nothing at all wrong with noting what kind of accessories are used and by no means does it make you (or anyone else) a douchebag. I mean, flashlights, IR and visible lasers, optics... all that stuff is awesome. I just think it's unnecessary (as well as a waste of server space) to have multiple pics of one weapon customized in multiple different ways each for a few specific pages when one pic of the weapon in its standard configuration can be used on all pages, with minor differences noted in the descriptory paragraph. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I'm all for the efficient use of resources and I come here for info and screenshots anyway. I wasn't necessarily against airsoft pictures but I do see it a different way now. In the spirit of full disclosure, however, I really am quite a douchebag. -- ZG

:Lol XD Well, they ''do'' say honesty is golden... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

==Planned Weapons==
Where did the informatio for most of these planned weapons come from??
:No idea, and no one has posted any sources, and there's no way to edit it now. Maybe if another multiplayer video shows up, someone with some authority will notice them and can remove them. I mean, really, the XM8? COD4 never had it and that came out when it was still showing up in every "realistic" FPS.--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::IMHO, the XM8 is way overused in video games today. I'm glad IW shied away from it in favor of weapons like the ACR/Masada, that actually got beyond ''prototype'' stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
the acr isnt past prototype stage
:::No, it just isn't widely available yet, but it ''is'' beyond prototype stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:53, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
:The ACR is actually being produced by both Bushmaster and Remington. It's already being marketed and available to purchase [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
The ACR is not yet available for purchase (if it was, I'd already own one), Cerberus (the supergroup that owns both Remington and Bushmaster) is ramping up production on the rifles. The design is, however, complete, and one of the weapons was given away to a civilian recently as part of a raffle. It is expected to compete in an upcoming US Army rifle test.

==Winchester 1887==
Is the Winchester 1887 actually confirmed for the game? If it is, you can pretty much create a T2 class with that shotgun, the thumper, juggernaut, stopping power and something else that suits Arnie:P - Madax XXI 12:28

:Yup, it's in there. I'm totally gonna have a Terminator 2 online kit. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::It's definetely confirmed now, and with the big cocking loop and sawnoff stock and barrel too, only a hint of Terminator 2 fanboyism from IW there.... Can't wait to try it though. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:I found it in campaign a minute ago and it really sucks-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:41, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

^^^I think it's pretty good, I'm stoked to get it online.

::Same here, I heard it has fairly good range and damaged when stacked up to the other shotguns, it just has a slower ROF, due to the lever action. you can dual wield them though, which says something. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:It's one of the only shotguns with the furthest range out of the lot in MP, this and steady aim and it's a monster in it's own. Like you said M14, it has a low ROF and the second smallest capacity next to the ranger [[Draco122|Draco122]] 21:06, 26 November 2009

::Actually it doesn't. I picked an 1887 up off a dead guy today, and was amazed. first thing is, that it has stunning range. Easily the best, can hit damn close to 50 feet. It holds 7 shots in MP as well, and you can dual wield them, cocking them T2 style. It's a beast of a shotgun, and I can't wait to unlock it for myself. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::Isn't this weapon the Winchester 1897 shotgun, originally designed for trench warfare and used by the US military thru Vietnam (and plenty are still in use by civilians in the US). In playing COD 5: World at War, I haven't found the shotguns to be particularly effective. The Japanese NPCs are often so quick (esp in the higher difficulty level) that they are on you before you can chamber another round (esp in the section of the game where you have to destroy a howitzer with a 3 barreled 25mm AA gun and quickly take up a covered position to eliminate the Japanese counter-attack using a scoped Springfield). Two Japanese soldiers immediately attack you. I was killed more often using the shotgun than using the Type 100 or the .30 belt-fed machine gun--whose name just eluded me.

:::As for COD6:MW2, I have yet to run into the 1897. With so many high tech weapons (and the bewildering array of Russian weapons in the Sgt Roach and Pvt Ramirez sections), why bother with such an obsolete weapon given the effectiveness of the ASC45 (?) that's standard issue for Rangers & Special Forces, esp when there are smg/shotgun combos available. Or the incredible arsenal in Makarov's safe house?

:::[[User:Newsjunkie356|Newsjunkie356]] 23:58, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: It's not an 1897, it's an 1887, being lever-action not pump-action. That and it's styled after the Terminator 2 shotgun anyway.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:03, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

==M1014 Removal?==
Should we remove the section on the M1014 in this game? There hasnt been any confirmation of it appearing in game, aside from the misplaced icon.

No, it has been confirmed now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKwaOg7RYPo

== Any Ideas On The .44 Magnum ==
I think its either a Raging bull or a colt anaconda. both look quite simmlar but im thinkin it more a colt anaconda than a raging bull reason being that the the magnum in game look as if it has smaller vents were as the raging bull as quite thick vents. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

On the Call of Duty wikipedia website it said it was a colt anaconda

Link plz? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Found a video on youtube where they switch classes revealing a .44 magnum on 0:16 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk]

==Clean Up Page==
I cleaned up the main page, but i can change it back if any one want's. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that FourZeroTwo has a gun on his back before getting knifed, that you missed. It appears to be a PP-2000, please correct me if I'm wrong

http://www.modernwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pp-2000

You could be right, but Ive got a hunch it could be a MP7, which seems more likely. But from what we can see its hard to tell. (thx also :)

No problem, I just love MW and MW2 and had to point that out, but I didnt know who to talk to about it. Great site, too:) I learned loads about guns, like the difference between a Beretta and a Taurus:) - Terry 00:06

I was right about the PP-2000!:) - Terry 23:30

I was like "Sure" when i saw your above post, then i look at the pic of the PP-2000 akimbo, and was like "FUCK" cool any way m8 :)

== Bullet Types ==
What is this about the Tavor being loaded with FMJ's? Is this supposed to mean that along with choosing weapon attachments, we also get to choose bullet types? - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]

A bit too confusing now lol, I'm thinking it will just be a perk, because if im right fmj's give higher velocities, but i couldn't see how this would affect the game, in cod 4 all bullets moved at the same speeds?

Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?

What i understand is that FMJ are solid bullets and the only bullets "allowed" in warfare from the Hague Conventions.

True, but but a "Black" operation such as this would hardly be concerned with the rules of "conventional warfare." =P

The Theory behind JHP (Jacketed Hollow Points) is that upon impact of the target the nose of the bullet mushrooms to a much larger size the then original diameter(caliber) of the bullet causing a larger wound channel and more "stopping power"

The downside to this is that since JHP expand during impact the force of the bullet is dispersed over a larger area on the target making these bullets less likely to pierce body armor, also some HP bullets give certain firearms trouble when cycling this ammo. my 1911 for instance... =)

Your 1911's feeding of hollow point has to do with the type of 1911 usually. Different kinds of feeding ramps I'm told. My series 70 Gold cup has the same problem but my Springfield TRP feeds just fine.
FMJ's moving at Higher velocities has to do with air drag, hollow points would create more of it. As others have said hope this helps, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong.

But basically all bullets work well for their intended applications. its just that in this day and age there are so many options for a person to use its just matching the bullet to the task. Hunting, Target, Match, Self-defense, Low recoil or "Cowboy" Loads, Plinking. Its endless. -Furious Oyster (feel free to expand or remove if incorrect or unnecessary, just trying to help)

well... I didn't exactly want a bullet discussion, i was just wondering how this would affect the game, like if infinity ward would make it horrible and make stuff like hollow points do something like 4 times damage but only go as far as a "Call of Duty Shotgun". - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]

"Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?"- I just read alot on firearms :P but i remember coming across it?

As far as i know there is an international convention that bans the use of hollow point bullets and other expanding bullets for millitary purposes.

:That would be the Hague Convention. But from what I understand, it bans their use against ''state-employed combatants'' only, leaving them fair game for counter-terrorism ops and the like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

FMJs could be like the perk "Deep Impact"?

They are an attachment for the guns that gives them a little extra damage and better penetration through walls too.

== Extended Magazines Attachments ==
Thought it was pretty cool, but will it be like a drum mag or something like bandolier, what ever it is i hope it applies to assault rifles.

[[Image:Ump45em.jpg|400px]]

:Could be a dual mag clip, so you can reload faster. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 00:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
:: Magazine dammit!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:11, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
He said a clip that holds two magazines together for a speedier reload - Mythekal
:::Huh. i never heard of that before. Good point, Mythekal.

Lol its still a mag Mythekal!

its usually just a metal or plastic part that latches to both mags allowing you to just pull out the used one move it to the left and reinsert the fresh mag... Some times its just a piece of tape. Google AR-15 mag couplers or something. -Furious Oyster (Sorry miss read it)

I knew what a dual mag clip is, i was merely trying to explain it to who ever thought that M14Fan said "Clip" instead of Magazine. And here is a picture to avoid further confusion. -[[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]

[[Image:Dual_Mag_clamp.jpg‎|200px]]

There better be an attachment like this for the AA-12, cause its gonna get really annoying reloading that lousy 8-shot magazine every five seconds after unloading on someone lol-ArmoredMason619

Apparently the extended mags are exactly what you think. They take the standard magazines of any gun and just add like 10 more rounds to it. I don't know about the reload animation, but most likely it's the same. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

the extended mags look exactly the same and reload the same they've just got more rounds- red raindog

==Barret .50==

At the end of the Flag Runner video FourZeroTwo has a Barret M82. May not be, but it looks like one and sounds like one, it's a little blurry so i wasn't sure? -Final Tsurugi

It looks like a Barrett XM500 - Mythekal

How did i not notice that, actually might be a Barrett M99? - Final Tsurugi

:Or it could be the M107, the updated M82. ][[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy] 01:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

It wasnt the M99 because it was firing semi-automatically, and from the angle, the magazine was not visible, so i assume it was a bullpup - Mythekal

It is a Barret M82/M107, if you pause the video at the right moment you can see the magazine in front of the grip, i actually got excited to think we might have a bull-pup sniper in Modern Warfare 2 :P -Final Tsurugi

Nope. Youre all wrong, I mean you got the .50BMG part right, but its actually an Accuracy International AS50. Come on guys I cant be the only one who noticed that-Kellers357
I'm almost positive that it is not an AI. It is just a M107 [[User:mythekal|mythekal]]

Most definitely a Barret 82/M107. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

It is an M82A1, just like in COD4. M107's actually larger than the M82, but has less recoil because of its internal design. --[[User:Frostbite249|Frostbite249]] 13:42, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Brazillian Militia? ==

They better make the main character waste the militia alongside the Brazilian Army or the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batalhão_de_Operações_Policiais_Especiais BOPE] or I am not buying it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

:I actually like that causal outfit the militia wear :)
::Me too. I never seen a Brazilian wear a 1980s Miami Vice style flower shirt, but i do like how they have militia wearing Brazilian football team shirts. Makes it more realistic. I like the flower shirts though. They are cheesy as hell. It fits the game. Also, Please sign your posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah Miami vice ftw :) --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

==Guns from the new teaser==
This SMG looks like a [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]].
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|300px|[[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]]]]
[[Image:MW2teastrail1.png|thumb|none|400px|I thought it was a MP5K but if we look closer, it doesn't seem to be one.]]
:It could be a K with the forward grip removed? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

no, its an MP5K equipped with some sort of an RIS handguard to me-Kellers357

looks like an MP5 with a tactical end-cap, kinda like the end cap on the MP5K. no idea why there's a 15 round magazine though
[[Image:MW2teastrail2.png|thumb|none|400px|And this one looks like a UMP but the the silhouette isn't exactly the same (maybe the model of the game was not loaded enough).]]
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:It definitely resembles a UMP, it probably has rails on the handguard, as well as the front sight removed, as they did in the last game ~[[user:Revolver|Revolver]]
its a UMP with the foresight removed for the red dot-Kellers357

The one in the first picture is I think a Special Weapons MP-10. Check it out at the bottom of the mp5 page.
::The forearm doesn't look as large as the MP-10 though... everything else looks like a MP-10 indeed.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
The two guns look similar minus the stock and clip. I could be wrong but I'm sure that if it isn't a special weapons mp-10 then it is an UMP.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:Magazine goddamit![[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
What's wrong with saying clip? It means the same thing.
:.. Uh, no. It's not. A 'clip' is the device that loads a magazine. You either use it to load your detachable magazines, or you carry the clips to load the fixed magazine in your rifle (on old rifles). You don't carry 'clips' around any more. They're two different things. It's like saying rim and tyre mean the same thing. --[[User:Joffeloff|Joffeloff]] 12:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I've never heard that before. I can see where clip comes from stripper clip that they used in rifles. Everyone around me says clip and mag is interchangeable but people use mag more often. If it really bothers you that much then I'll just say mag then.
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Special Weapons MP-10 9x19mm]]
The second one looks like an UMP. I'm pretty sure we're dealing with two guns here.
::Yeah but there is no rear sight on the one in the screenshot, and it's disturbing me... maybe they took it away because of the Red Dot on it.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually if you look closely that kinda square shape towards the back of the gun is the iron sight so it's pretty much an UMP with what looks like an ACOG. If you're talking about the front sight for the UMP which does appear to be missing, remember that they removed the front sights from the M4/M16 when you attach a sight even though that's not standard.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
[[Image:UMP 45.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch UMP .45 ACP]]
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

I've got a clearer shot of the weapon thanks to a friend :)
[[Image:MW2MP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok I guess it's not an MP-10 but a dressed up MP-5. They did it to the AK I suppose they are going to do it to the MP-5?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Guys on CoD Wikia found an interesting thing about this gun and I pretty agree: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Modern_Warfare_2#Sub_Machine_Guns They say it's a MP5K with a R.I.S system. Since they've put one for the M4, I guess that's possible.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

It has to be a MP5k with a rail. The short magazine,no stock, and small flashider make it the only possible variant.

==what AK is this?==
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=2&newsid=20387
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=4&newsid=20387
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=5&newsid=20387

In the first image I can see that it has a waffle magazine. In the second image I can see that a muzzle brake is present, and in the last image I can see what appears to be a Tapco Intrafuse AK-47 Handguard. So what is it? Oh and it appears to have a synthetic stock. [[Special:Contributions/72.133.253.21|72.133.253.21]] 21:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== Guns from the trailer ==
[[Image:MW2brazil.png|thumb|none|400px|FN FAL or Imbel MD-3 (brazilian variant of the FAL)?]]
I hope it's an FAL. You barely ever see them in video games-S&Wshooter
:Could be a variant of the KTR-03S - an AK custom build [http://www.krebscustom.com/RawPhotos/6-28-04/KTR-03SFinal.jpg]. - MCain (UTC)
:Me too. I love fals. And the gun above looks like a IMBEL MD2. Heres the wikipedia article: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMBEL_MD2]. Note how it has a STANAG Magazine like the MD2.I also love how ridiculous looking the Brazilian gang members are.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::rather MD-3 isn't it? Since it hasn't a foldable stock.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah without the folding stock it is a MD3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::::However, the gun's long barrel looks more like a FAL... ahh sh*t! This fuc*ing game is driving me mad, every guns don't look exactly the same as their originals^^--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:I think there are Imbel MD2s or MD3s with the regular barrel.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:Ok, there are no Imbel MD3s with regular barrels. It's most likely a design error by the developters.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
(comment: It better be a FAL. I'm getting tired of M4's, M16's, AK's and G36's. I want to be able to use a gun ingame that in't too small for me in real life.-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]])
:I agree. the game better have G3s and IMI galils. I also love the fact that is a Brazilian made Fal. You don't see those in movies.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
:I also want a MG3 or some kind of big, dumb machine gun chambered to 7.62x51mm NATO. Machine guns chambered to 7.62 tear shit up.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
: Hell yeah man! Thats exactly what I'm saying. I would also like to see some more bolt action jobs that aren't crappy( DSR-1, Enfield Enforcer, Steyr SSG) in video games- [[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
::''This would probably be the IMBEL MD-2 (folding stock) or MD-3 (fixed stock) which is manufactured locally in Brazil. The weapons are based, pretty much, on the FAL with the exception that they fire a 5.56 round'' [[User:Charon68|Charon68]]
:::And are fed from STANAG Magazines and have different handguards.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
:I'm tired of .223 guns. I would like to see a FAL, M14 or G3 that isn't emasculated (made innacurate, weak or make ammo for it scarce)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]]
::I want a M14 that is not tricked out with rails like the one in Call of Duty 4. I want a M14 like the one below:
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A real M14.]]
I do like the Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR rifle though. I also want A M16A4 that doesn't fire on Full Auto and a AK-74. AK-74s don't get enough love.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::CoD 7 will be about Vietnam War according to rumours, maybe they'll put in one.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 19:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
::And smaller conflicts in africa. I hope they also put atleast one level that takes place in the portuguese colonial war.
[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:29, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Now i think the FAL above may be a FN FAL with rails on the handguards and a 30 round magazine but i think it's too curved and big to be 7.62x51mm NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

im taking a guess that the FAL looking rifle is a DSA SA58 OSW. im probably wrong, but thats my two cents
:Way too big to be an SA58. The SA58 is a Carbine. The one in the upper picture is an Assault Rifle. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:02, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:MW2smg.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

*A Kriss Super V?
Does anyone know who the guy with the KRISS is? Im calling him Brazilian Secret Service but I'm sure Im wrong. Help?-Kellers357
Cool. The pistol is a Desert Eagle, by the way.-protoAuthor
:I think the pistol is a Jericho 941 since it's too small to be a desert eagle.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
::No, it's an Eagle. Check out the ejection port.
:::''I concur. It's not terribly visible, but there's that familiar slide mounted safety in both shots. It appears to be a totally game-created custom finish though - the barrel and the underlying section of the frame (where the gas pistons are housed) look to be blued and the grips and the rest of the frame looks silver. On a couple of related notes, wow at the graphics - I took these for pictures of the developers testing out their guns at first - and wow at the handling of the Desert Eagle by this guy. Usually in these games, you see handguns being handled only somewhat compentently at best. This guy looks like he sleeps with the damn thing.'' ---[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 02:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Also, take note of the sound it makes when it fires. Exact same sound as the Desert Eagle in CoD4.
:::::Besides, the game is still going through production and the weapon models will be touched up. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

== The machine gun ==
I think the machine gun that the russian terrorists are using is a M240.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think it's a M249 SAW, the M240 (GP Machine gun) is bigger.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Could it possibly be a Mk. 46?
:Makes sense since most of the guns are special forces guns.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
:Well the M240B has been added just look at the new multiplayer trailer. IGN rewind theater confirms it too. could someone add it on the main article? -Mandaloin

==New AK==
[[Image:AKMW2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
I think its just an amped up AK-47. It has an AR-15 stock, waffle magazine, and has a synthetic handguard.
Found a similar image:
[[Image:Ak-47-weapon-accessories-desert-colourb.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 22:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:Good god, look what they did to that AK! That's just horrible. I hope the AK in the game isn't like that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:37, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::I watched the trailer again. I am sure that i saw a AK with a AK-74 style flash hider.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Maybe a AK-101 since NATO forces use 5.56mm.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think it could be a AK-74M or just a AK-74 since the russian army might make a apparence and they need to arm the russian soldiers.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I said "NATO forces"--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC) because the one having it in the screenshot is Soap... well, maybe or surely, he captured because he had a M14 at the beginning.
::Well...the game's plot is a about a Uber badass special forces unit that works alone and is headed by our buddy Soap up there. So, i guess the badass special forces unit is not part of NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:35, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Neither AK-101 or AK-74, the magazine in the image holds 7.62x39mm. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 00:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Maybe theres the tricked out AK up there and the AK-74 style AK.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, seems like we won't know until we'll have a level walkthrough with the name of the weapon in it...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
::I saw the Gameplay videos and i saw two different AKs. One with a AKM style muzzle brake and another one with a AK-74 style flash hider. Maybe we can build guns from the ground up? like, you can have a AK-47 with a kobra sight, snow camo, fires 7.62x39mm and has a AK-74 flash hider?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
*It's gotta be an AKM.
::Why the it would be an AKM? It looks like an AK-74M or one of the AK-100 series.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Well it has ribbing on the top of the reciever, like the AKM, but the indentation I cannot clearly see. It could be like in Farcry 2, where it has the Ak-47 receiver with some AKM parts, and I used AKM because the 100 series are developments on the AKM, understand? So AK-47 is incorrect.
::::But the AK-10X series were developments on the AK-74M. Also, sign you posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well technically the modernizations start with the AKM, I see it as the break off point of the AK series. Ak-74 was designed from the AKM, and so on and so on, but that doesn't matter, yeah it could be the 100 series, but my point is its not an AK-47. Also lacks the flash hiders of the 74 and 100s. But I think it's a frankenAK-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I think the AK-74 flashider can be seen when in first person. Like how in the first Modern Warfare, The first person model of the M4 had an grip on the handguard but the world model didn't have a grip. I also think it's an frankengun or it may be an AK that the player can build. Like in hitman: Blood Money.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't think so on the 74, but I think we can agree in the meantime it is not an AK-47 so we should change the heading accordingly, evidence shows it is a modernized variant so we could say a Kalashnikov in the heading and have notations that it is a modernized variant.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

It looks like it has the AK-47 variant front sight on it.

Guys, I guess it's new railed AK-103 from Izhmash with M4ish buttstock and waffled mags. Check the link below for pics, note the same muzzle brake etc as in the game.
[http://depositfiles.com/files/xgycdj189 new AK-103]

:That link goes to a pay-to-download site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Gentleman, why do the russians carry AKs with a bunch of western furniture on them? I don't think Izhmash orders their stock and handgrip parts from Tapco. Great thinking, Modern Warfare 2 producers! -Camden

== Unrealeted ==
Ok, i know this has nothing to do with the game or releted to guns but, i was reading the Modern Warfare 2 thread on the Something Awful forums and they were calling the Brazilian gangters africans. What the ? and they seen to think the scenes in Rio De Janeiro are set in Africa. What the mother ? it offends me that people are dumb enough to ignore the line "he's got a contact in rio" and Christ the Redeemer and the huge mountains with favelas full of illiterate drug dealers and the Brazilian made Imbel MD-3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
:What do you expect? It's Something Awful!

To be fair all the favela gangsters that are seen so far are Afro-Brazilians, even if there are plenty of gang members of all races in real life. With so many games having levels in destroyed urban areas in Africa it's not surprising that some people would get a Black Hawk Down style vibe from the pictures.

Personally I hate something Awful as they break their own rules on posting. One member has a post on there with my first and last names and it's a bloody poison pen hitpeice. I asked the frigging syop to remove the shit and he laughed at me. Personally I find the site the home of a bunch of elitist idiots who have at least one member dumb enough to set the fuel line for a weilding torch on fire.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 19:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:Hey, i like something awful but you have to be really dumb not to see the Christ the redeemer.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

==Hopes For New Game==

Want a little realism and some weapons like standard battle rifles not all trick out with rails. Hoping russians have ak-74s and makarovs or that new 9x19 pistol they developed, not ak47s. Militias and gangs should have a mix of guns, not all berettas and 1911s. A makarov, cz-75, hk or two, glock, model 19 smiths.....just variety.

What the fick is an "akarov"? Lol-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Makarov, a 9x18mm pistol that has been issued in several variants to the russian military. Come on, seriously, sticky keys some things are mspelled.

I knew that. I was just kidding-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the brazilians should use taurus and stoeger guns too, that would be realistic. And the militia should have some sxs coach guns and taurus revolvers, you know, the non tatcticla stuff. And psitols should be portrayed as hard to shoot, not coming back exactly on target after each round and it should wobble a bit while aiming.
:The Brazilian gangsters are using tricked out guns with rails. At least the IMBEL MD-3 up there has a Eotech reflex sight and what looks like rails on the handguards but they could be the regular MD-3 hand guard. We know the AKs are going to be tricked out as like the image above but i think i saw a AK-74 that was not tricked out. I hope they have a AK-74.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

My major hope for the game is a surpressed sniper rifle available on multiplayer not single. The first Modern Warfare was a great stealth game with all the "Surpressors", and "Ghillie Suits" but really was a "Greek Tragedy" on multiplayer. I could understand that your average military trained sniper has a spotter and a shooter and are trained to be the world's top 10 patient people in the world but can't put the patience into a live game with real people in a seven minute match. Aside from history why couldn't the writers just put a M21 with a surpressor on in multiplayer like in the missions "Blackout" and "All Ghillied Up"? For the new guys to COD4 on the M21 attachments there are only two attachments "No Attachment" has a standard scope, the ACOG attachment has a ACOG scope and is missing a surpressor as a third attachment. If you understand how to customize your attachments you wouldn't be so confused but since the "No Attachment" feature has a standard scope why not have the surpressor and scope. It just doesn't make sense why you would have the same setup in the campaign but not in multiplayer. We can all understand why you can't have more than one attachment on any other weapons but why not add a surpressor on a sniper that has "No Attachment" for it's standard scope? I am probably to late to send this message to Infinity Awards but I spent 20 minutes on it so I might get lucky if they read it and a miracle if they change it. I'm just sharing my hopes so try not to delete it.

I hope they get more shotguns in and make them a tiny bit better.m3,870,m1300,m950,etc. Two shotguns that go 5 feet suck, especially when pistols can go as far as sniper rifles.

* If they added compensators to the attachments for handguns would be cool. It sucks that there's only one attachment for pistols in MW1, and the D-Eagle hasnt got anything that can be put on it, and that sucks even more. Maybe different calibers for the D-Eagles could be used too, but that might be going too far. And I hope theres an SG552 in there aswell, I love that gun so much. And if they added firing selection to the game, you could switch the SPAS from pump to semi auto, which would also be cool, and a touch more realistic.

:More Desert Eagle is the ''last'' thing this game needs. Seriously, why not a SIG 226 or HK45 instead (i.e., an actual ''combat pistol'')? One thing I want for sure is a freaking fire selector for assault rifles and carbines. Like has been said on the CoD4 page, full auto or bust sucks. I prefer quick double tapping on semi-auto. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

My hopes for this game? An automatic FAMAS; leave the 3-round burst to the M16. Also, a true M14. As for everything else, well, the only thing I was worried about from the onset was the RPD, but since it's been confirmed, I'm ecstatic. And I like how they're doing the secondary weapon thing. Having a shotgun as your primary could be pretty useless sometimes...[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
-you no what, they need to make a real "modern warfare" game, like with acts going from Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, and hell Somalia, who wouldnt want to play a blackhawk down game with kick ass graphics AND guns, that is what cod7 should be and obviously with the real weaponry they had, ex- no Magpul Masada in vietnam, Sad but true, any agree with this?- Griz

==Winchester 1200==

We all know the 1200 is old and not used since vietnam. The 1300 is used. Would it be safe to say these are mis-named winchester 1300s? Or is it more video game nonsense?
:The 1200 in this game is the same 1200 from Modern Warfare 1 so it's safe to say that the Winchester is a 1200 even though is pretty retarded to militarys still be using the 1200 today.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:52, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I seriously doubt the 1200 was ever made in this configuration.
:Me too but it is a video game and video game developters are pretty retarded when it comes to guns. Still, this and COD4 have the best Gun in video game history atleast by now.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:Watching over the video again on youtube and moderwarfare2.com, the weapon does look like a Winchester 1200 at first glance, yet I'm also convinced it may be a Remington 870 MCS, either in the Entry configuration or the Patrol Configuration due to the length of the barrel or it maybe the combination of the two, due to the length of the barrel with an added entry front sight. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 22:15, 11 August 2009

[[Image:Rem870mcs_14.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|]]

== Alright ==
Alright you son-of-a-bitches there's a gameplay video in gametrailers. It's pretty low quality but some new guns were seen, including the gun with the heartbeat sensor and some others. Now, i don't know how to screencap trailers so someone else will have to do it.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Here they come:
[[Image:MW2AR1.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[Image:MW2AR2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
YOU FOOL! It's "sons-of-bitches". That's a pretty awesome-looking cap, though.-protoAuthor
:Thanks for the correction. I am sure Soap and Roach we using AKs with AK-74 flash hiders. Anyone have any idea what kind of AKs were those?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:20, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
::Oliveira, do you think you could post a link of the trailer for me, please? Thanks so much. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Which trailer?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== gameplay demo ==

did anyone see the new gameplay demo for Modern Warfare 2
it showed "Roach"(main protagonist) with a IMBEL MD-3 with a dot sight and a...radar
im not good with gun attachments but is there really a radar attatchment?
:It's a heartbeat sensor and the gun wasn't a MD-3. it looked like a fictional gun of some sort.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
::some says it's a SCAR--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Makes sense since the charging handle is on the right side. But i think the SCAR charging handle is on the left side.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
-It looks like a Sig 556 variant to me - Mythekal

Yeah looks like the sig556 itself thogh, not the military versions? Also, would it be safe to say the glock is a glock 18, no idea how anyone would mistake a full auto as a g22/.

It could just be a fully automatic Glock 22. Gun rules dont necessarily matter to video games - Mythekal
:Mythekal is right. Hell, Modern Warfare 1 had a M16A4 that fired on full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

All that matters is the real weapon that the in-game version is modeled from. Call of Duty 4 had an Aks-74u modeled from an Airsoft gun - Mythekal

I'm starting to think that this rifle could be a Bushmaster ACR, as it shares similar traits, except for the placement of the charging handle - Mythekal

:My thoughts too. The charging handle is consistent to the ACR, but the SCAR has the same kind of charging handle. We can't see the stock and both could accept a thermold mag. So it could be either. I really doubt they make up an entire fiction rifle for the sake of it. Modern Warfare was always all about guns that are real. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

::Though the weird part is, the ACR has a slide release right next to the trigger, similiar to the XM8. You reload and just press forward with your trigger finger, no need to slap or pull the charging handle. The SCAR has the slide release like the AR-15 rifles, you can just slap it to release, but yet in the gameplay, you don't slap a slide release or push a slide release, you pull the charging handle back. Strange [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

It could be a Magpul Masada. It is very similar to the weapon in the videos, and has a charging handle on the right side of the receiver. In the video, the stock has a hinge, indicating a folding stock, which looks almost identical to the Masada. - Mythekal

The rifle also has ambidexterous charging handles - Mythekal

:That sumbitch is most certainly a Masada.

new gameplay vid says it's a silenced ACR with heartbeat sensor.

I think it is a Magpul Masada [[User:Choi117|Choi117]]
:I watched the Gameplay and i'm sure that the gun is a ACR.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

ACR is the masada. Same gun, switched manufacturer.
:Sorry, i didn't know that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

But the stock is that of the Masada - Mythekal

::ACR man, I know the Masada sounds cooler, but it isn't call that anymore. It's like people still calling the REC 7 a Barret M468 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:42, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Or any of the M16 series of weapons a AR-15.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
:Well if it's called AR15, you would be referring to the civilian M16 rifles. M16 is a military weapon and an AR-15 isn't. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I think the pistol is a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18C]]
:Most likely since it was firing on Full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
::It was pointed out that the firing rate wasn't the same speed as a real [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], but it could be that the developers couldn't quite get the slide and sound speed for a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]]. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Or it could be a [[Glock]] firing on semi-automatic. [[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
::::That little er fires fast if its semi auto (pardon my language)
:::::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18's]] did not have this color available. [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22's]] just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.

==Weapons-trailers==

Been seeing trailers online annoncing weapons and perks. How much cred do they have? Theres no footage to back it up, bt several announced weapons are in the screenshots. They also list the 110 SASR, L85, L85 mg version, etc.
:Weapon trailers? Where the hell can i find those? They could be really useful for the article.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Youtube, theres a "weapons" one that just lists guns, and a weapons and perks thing, the perks it actually ahs proof from the original teaser.

:I wouldn't trust any of those youtube bull. One said there might be an XM8 in the game. I hope it does not. That's one more step towards having all the guns Rainbow Six have. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
::Those videos are pure speculation. I'm sure those are all . We will only document weapons that are confirmed by the developters and seen in gameplay.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

== Hbar? ==
I don't want to offend anyone but, what the mother is a Hbar?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Its the Heavy barreled variant of the Aug meant to be a squad based machine gun - Mythekal

:Hbar could also be refering to anything really. Heavy barrel anything. I've seen plenty of AR-15 variants in movies with Hbars. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::[http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6211390/?hd=1&tag=live-schedule] Sometime when the player passes over ennemies' corpses, he can take their weapons. One of them (the other is often a FA-MAS) is a AUG. There is four letter after it, a H at the beginning and I don't see well the other 3. But there is only one variant of the AUG with a "H" in its name, and that's the HBar.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Could someone upload a image of the icon in the above video? The link isn't working for me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I just watched the E3 gameplay again. The AUG HBAR pick up symbol looks amazingly like the SA80 British service rifle. Might be a place holder or something.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:I made a note of it in the actual page. It DOES look like an SA80 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

::My money's on a mislabel. We know the standard AUG is confirmed (all those screenshots) so why not the HBAR too?--[[Special:Contributions/142.162.149.33|142.162.149.33]] 17:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

::If you pause it right before you kill the guy who carried it it's an AUG. So therefore its a mislabel. (I wish I can upload the screenshot but dun know how.)
:::Sign you posts for christ's sake.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
== Correct Name ==
I think we should call this game Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 instead of just [[Modern Warfare 2]] because we have a entire alphabetized series of Call Of Duty in the Video Games Category and just putting this in the "M" section does not look we even have this page. If somebody knows how to put this in the "C" section with out changing the name that will be organized.
"You can call it Call of Duty 6 if you want...People just look at me stupid when I do it. They understand when I say 'Modern Warfare 2'." -Camden

:Well that's the problem. Originally it WAS called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and some still do, but officially, the publishers decided to shorten the title for some reason. We COULD for alphabetize sake, put Call of Duty in front so it fits with the others. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

:And I've successfully changed the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

::Wait, I thought the reason that this was called Modern Warfare 2 was because Infinity Ward no longer wanted to make any more WWII related games and as such gave the "Call of Duty" moniker to Treyarch. Modern Warfare is supposedly now a separate series from Call of Duty. [[User:Markit|Markit]]
:Modern Warfare is its own series now and isn't a CoD game anymore.-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::Or we could make a new "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" page which bring it here.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::[[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

:Actually, this game is still being published by Activision that published the previous game. It is STILL apart of the Call of Duty franchise, they just chose to officially call this game just Modern Warefare 2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Keep it modern warfare 2, but link them together, like GM did linking all the dirty harry movies together.

I just saw a new official cover art for the game. It says
CALL OF DUTY
MODERN WARFARE 2
so i think we should call it call of duty modern warfare 2 -Mandaloin

Thats just the boxart. Officially by the gamedevs its only called Modern warefare 2. They just slapped "call of duty" on there because a lot of people are stupid enough not to realise this IS a sequel to Call of Duty 4: modern warefare [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]

== Taskforce 141 = Rainbow Six ==

A multinational commando unit? The moment I read that, I immediately thought Rainbow and well we really can't complain what kinds of weapons these guys uses since they are a fictional unit like Rainbow so they can use whatever they want. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
:I was expecting the task forece to be from the UN. That would be cool.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::But if they say they are are UN taskforce makes the team sound kinda...pointless Like the UN does anything. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I though Rainbow Six was a UN Task Force? Anyway, a movie or televison series about a UN Uber badass task force that were formed to catch international criminals would be really cool. The problem with the UN is that they try to be neutral and being neutral doesn't do anything. The UN should be reformed to be more of a International police that works against international criminals and make international laws.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I like the UN the way it is. What you're talking about sounds like the first step to a totalitarian society.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:What i'm talking about is stuff like Resolution 84. I also like the UN the way it is but, they fail at quick responses to genocide such as the Rwandan Genocide in 1994.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
In general they fail at mostly any response. They just don't have the power to back up their enforcement of peace. Any peace keeping force with too much power can be oppressive. Who will keep the peace keepers in check when they're suppose to keep us in check? Quite the dilemma. I just don't think the idea of the U.N. or anything similar can work.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:The United States shall keep the UN in check, without US, there is no UN. They need us more than we need them. It might seem like typical arrogant American mentality, but from how things are, the US has more indirect influence and handle over the entire world. We are the world's insurance policy, the self proclaimed enforcer, guardian, peacekeeping super power despite all our internal problems with crime, money and other things, but because of our population and how relatively young our nation is, the intense diversity in culture and believes keeps us in check. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
::...and this is why the rest of the world laughs at you. The UN uses the US for two things: money and muscle. If we need a billion dollars-worth of hardware and a couple of divisions of witless jocks to drive it around, you're who we go to. The two hardest things about a UN mission are coming up with a spin which makes the Yanks feel self-important and translating your orders from French to American English.
::The Problem is when someone like Bush Jr. comes up and s everything up. Could you imagine having someone like him being President of The United States during the Cold War? Anyway, The UN did have a really good quick response to the North Korean invasion of South Korea. We almost had North Korea. If weren't for the goddamm chinese.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
: Yeah if it weren't for them all this Kim Jong Il shit wouldn't be happening and we wouldn't be about to go to war in Korea-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 18:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
::Hey Smith, if someone is at fault for not winning the Korean War and not having only one Korea, is Mao. Truman also kinda ed up by telling the 7th Fleet to enter the Taiwan Straits.
:::Um, Task Force 141 is a play on Task Force 121, which in real life is a (dare I say) black ops verison of JSOC. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

I think the Task Force 141 is referring to Task Force 145 in reality. Task Force 145 is a joint force combining US and UK special forces

Task Force 121 was in no way a Black Ops Unit. It was, as 145 is, a multinational military unit assigned dircetly to counter-terrorism. Task Force 121 no longer exists it is now known as 145, which is what Task Force 141 in the game is based off of.

team rainbow was made to combat terrorism the old commander of ranbow is was a navy seal and a cia agent. he is the guy in clear and present danger is his name mr. clark.

Yeah that's from the original book, Rainbow Six. The games are all based around it. He was and Ex-SEAL who was recruited by the CIA and became an Operator[a Spy, if you wanna be movie technical.]. His name was John Clark.

:My Rainbow Six history isn't what it used to be, but I'm pretty sure John Clark was just the director of Rainbow and didn't do much field work (most of which was left to Ding Chavez, at least until the Vegas games when he was promoted to Six and Logan and Bishop were brought into the picture). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

True, he didn't do much feild. About all he did in the basis of feild work was at the end of the novel where they hunt down the Bio-terrorist's and chase them to their secondary base in Brazil. He run's the show basically as Feild Commander.

Task Force 141 in-game is made-up of an unknown amount of countries military. The three that you can definately tell are, U.S. Military, British S.A.S., and Australian S.A.S.

== More weapons comfirmed ==

It seems that p90 is making a return and spas 12 will also be ingame
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKBEQoSpu8
:That guy got a lot of the guns wrong and that AUG Hbar looked more like a SA80 to me. And what the hell is up the people thinking that the FAL in the trailer is a AK? It looks nothing like it!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:00, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:Well, most people are unaware of all the different kinds of firearms. I'm surprise this guy in the vid ID as much as there was. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

== CPT. Price ==
I hope we get to find out if CPT. Price from CoD4 survived or not. That's been bugging me... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:47, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
:I think it would cheapen the ending of Modern Warfare 1 if he survived.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:51, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

How would that cheapen the ending of the first game? It was never clear if any of the team's survived. What about the Mile High Club mission where you hear Price and Gaz talk? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:Gaz got shot in the face with a Desert Eagle, he's dead.-protoAuthor
:"I'm really going to confuse the discussion, If Gaz got shot the face with an Action Express and died...(Which I watched) Why does Ghost sound like Gaz?" -Camden

Captain Price leads the Task Force in this game!

No, Soap leads the Task Force

Soap does sound kind of similar to Cpt. Price. I guess Price rubbed off on him a little or something.

*Price managed to last for sixty years without ageing, dying or trimming his moustache, so I can't see a little thing like being shot dead getting to him. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 10:16, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
:Well...I would like if he came back right at the end and save Soap and Roach. But, he better have a even glourious moustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, recalling CoD1 a little more, Price has ''already'' died once in the series. He was shot dead on board the ''Tirpitz'' and you just left him there, only for him to turn up again in CoD2 apparently none the worse for it. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 08:26, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Didn't COD2 take place before COD1?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Can't remember, to be honest, I didn't play it that much; I was busy being an Annoyed PC Gamer because they took away my quicksaves, fire modes and health packs and replaced them with Not Being Killed Grenades [throw one to not be killed by that machinegun!]. Still, this is his second death in the series, so I wouldn't expect it to cramp his style much. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 12:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
:Gaz and Griggs got wasted though.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:03, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

The Cpt. Price in CoD 1 and 2 is a diffrent Price, most probably grandfather. And it is unsure if Price died or if he got promoted and got a higher position...

*Oh come on, it's either a clone or the same guy, they just came up with that when people started seriously questioning an extremely silly off-hand reference. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 07:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't talk about something you don't know sh¤t about... [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Price_(Call_of_Duty_4)] the two Cpt. Price are two diffrent guys

*Two different, totally identical guys. It's an elaborate cover story to hide that Price is invincible and immortal. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
:Captain Price is a symbol representing the glourious British Military. Ok, he is just a tradition for the Guys at Infinity Ward but it would be really cool if he was a symbol.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
:Hes dead a russian medic was seen trying to revive him but failed an started bashing his chest

Gaz... gone, .50 AE round to the face and you're done. Price... I doubt he'd be returning because let's face it he did die in COD4 and the Russian medic wouldn't have pounded his chest if he didn't die. As far as previous games go, Price was able to return because they didn't really have a tight storyline to them. But this Modern Warfare series does. So if Price returns, I think it'll be a bit ridiculous.
:I like that they Replaced Price with Soap but there is one thing i don't like about it.

No Glourious Mustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, but apparently Soap has a glorious Mohawk. And Price could be a good Zombie.

Even if Price lived through the end of COD4, do you really think he'd still fight?
:What reason would there be for him ''not'' to? Guys get wounded and go back to active duty all the time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The Voice Actor, Billy Murray, has been confirmed as having worked on the project, if that's worth anything.
:: Unfortunatly that could just end up being part of a flashback mission like in CoD 4. Here's hoping it's for a part of the main game.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

-Hes in the new trailer. Seriously, end of debate- k9870
::If you're on about the guy on the assault boat, all we see is a guy in a boonie from behind. I'm going to withhold judgement until the game actually comes out.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

At beginning of the Takedown level, Royce addresses "Bravo Six," Price's call sign from CoD4. Keep in mind that Captain Macmillan was Alpha Six, and that Soap's call sign is ''rumored'' to be Papa Six.
:: Except Bravo six was also Lt Vasquez's callsign. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
:: Except that Vasquez died in a nuclear explosion. Price's odds of survival are much better that someone who was nuked, crashed in a helicopter, and then exposed to radiation.
::: Hence my point, which is that the callsign is non-indicative. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I think everyone here just needs to except that Cpt. Price has returned and is immortal like many other great men with Facial hair (I.E Gordan Freeman, Solid Snake, Chewbacca)
:Actually chewbacca dies. Gets a moon crashing into him.-protoAuthor 05:22, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

it has been rumored that captain price (billy murray) will return as the commander of the 22 reg along with SSGT griggs (somehow) due to the fact we have been told (through the twitter page) that the voice actors have been paid record their voices but even then thiers nothing from stoping them from making another flashback mission with them

:Hence my original point. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:53, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

sorry ment to update that earlier CPT price is confirmed as retuning as the unit leader again after soap and roach break him out of a Russian prison (at that point price trys to kill roach but stops when he sees soap) the M1911 that you see on soap is the same as whats from MW1 which is returned to price then you can figure the rest out. end of story. regards scarec

The voice actor of SSGT. Griggs from the first MW, came back as the narrator of the SEALs in multiplayer. Same as Craig Fairbrass does as Ghost for all the Special Ops missions and for Task Force 141 on multiplayer.

:SEALs? Don't you mean Rangers? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

In Multiplayer, you have a different voice that announces the game for the Rangers. You would hear an american voice say "insert type of game", then he would say "Rangers lead the way". The voice of Griggs would say "insert type of game" then "let's do this", in mulitplayer, you can play middle easterns, Brazillians, russians, british, and Rangers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Note about Gaz, his voice actor reappears and is conveniently named Ghost, which would of course raise the question "The Ghost of whom?" Just a little thing I thought was funny.

:Nobody, it's a call sign. Gaz is dead and Ghost is not him in disguise. IW confirmed this. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:42, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

==General Observations==
Though I freely admit I got wood watching this trailer one thing I noticed is that the guys from ''Infinity Ward'' seemed to have recycled some scenery. When they showed the guys running through the alleyways of Rio I swear it reminded me of the alleyways of the Arab capital the Marines run through in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]].

:Not really. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

== The New pictures ==
Could someone tell me where did that picture of the american soldier with the M4 came from?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
:http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/special-ops-characters --[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Jesus Christ, is the weapons section of that website all kinds of ed up. Thet called an FN-FAL a G3 and they called an AK-74 a AK-47. What the mother ? At least that means that we, IMFDB members, have the best website documenting weapons in Modern Warfare 2. But still, what the mother ?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Is all the cussing necessary but yes I do agree that this website is the most reliable.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Wow... that site has the MP5 listed as being 40. S&W [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]

LoL that site is horrible... if you think that page is bad just jump into the forums... all kinds of gems in there... read the one about the Taurus Raging Bull. the guy says "goodluck reloading its four barrels" <- That had me laughing with the stupidity of that statement. - Furious Oyster

== TAR-21 or F2000? ==
[[Image:MW2TR6.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|A Brazilian Militia firing the unknown rifle, presumably a[[FN F2000#FN F2000 Tactical|FN F2000 Tactical]]]]
Isn't it a TAR-21 rather than a F2000?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:It's way too big to be a Tavor. Most likely an F2000.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah... the form is rather an F2000 too...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:My question is where the is the scope?-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 15:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::There is an version of the FN2000 that has the scope replaced with rails. I guess that's the one in the picture above.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Whats that under the F2000? Its too skinny to be an M203, I think its a shotugn--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 03:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Looks like an Remington 870.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
How the hell would they fit a shotgun/Masterkey on the three inches of forward rails that the F2000 has? More like a shotgun with an F2000 attachment, rather than the other way around.--[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well it definetly looks to be a shotgun, however it's mounted on there.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

:I see it now. It is an F2000 with the shotgun attachment and the way the shotgun is attached makes the gun look retarded. They didn't make the SCAR's own grenade launcher attachment, so obviously they didn't do the F2000's attachment and worse, they didn't take off the removeable handguard and just put the M203 directly under the barrel, they had to slap it at the bottom of the damn thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I have heard however that the F2000s red dot sight in multiplayer is the standard F2000 optical sight, much like the TAR-21 uses the MARS sight in multiplayer as well, and the L86 uses the SUSAT in place of the ACOG. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::I've used F2000s with the standard scope in Special Ops and the L86 does indeed have a SUSAT (that thing is horrible, BTW) in place of the ACOG. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:37, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

::::It is man. The L86 has awful accuracy, almost no range, and once you get two or three rounds off, it's all over the place. For me, it's the HBAR amigo. I'll take thr ability to hit people over drum mags any day. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== MP7? Are you sure? ==

Where do you exactly see MP7?

I only see custom MP5 (or MP5k without foregrip) on the right and two copies of another unidentified weapons on the left.
They have curved magazines where MP7 has foregrip and their casing is completly different.
MP7 doesn't match...
[[User:Morihaus|Morihaus]] 17:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)Morihaus

I saw a picture of it yesterday and i cant remember where. and i think it was a russian behind a shield, but im not sure if i remember that correctly. but the MP7 is definitely here -Mandaloin

The MP7A1 is seen in the Reveal trailer in the hands of the Brazilian Secret Service agents fighting off an insurgent force from a crashed C-130-Kellers357

== FAL Please ==

I know one of the screenshots show's what appears to be an MD-2, but I still wanan see a FAL in MW2. I'm getting annoyed by G36Cs and M16s and G3KA4s in all these games. The FAL was a true combat rifle, and I do has want (sorry for net speak)--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 20:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: I absolutely agree with the above statement-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Me too but, the MD-2 is good enough for me. And it is Brazilian! That makes me proud of being Brazilian.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: I like the Imbel also, its a pretty solid gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Which Imbel? Imbel is the manufacturer.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Their FAL copy with the fixed stock (it's the only one I've held)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Those are just called FN FALs.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:::The Imbel is great and all, but the FAL is a solid 7.62 rifle. Also, I noticed they're using the AUG A1, not A3 for MW2. I'm pleased with that as the original AUG model was always my favorite.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:08, 26 June
2009 (UTC)

== TDI "Kriss" ==
I know the Kriss is going to be hyped in MW2, as its a powerful .45 ACP SMG that has virtually no recoil and great accuracy. But the guys at IW won't let such a perfect gun into multiplayer, because it'll turn into a noob weapon fast. My bet's on that they purposely change one of it's stats to make it more balanced. Any guesses on what they'll take away from it? My bet is make it less powerful.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
:There IS recoil in the Kriss. Every gun has recoil.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
::True, but it varies what the recoil force actually ''does'' and how much of it the user feels; the recoil has to go somewhere, but it can be towards things like fighting the gun's own muzzle climb by shoving a weight downwards [as with the Kriss], stopping a barrel that's moving forwards [as with the XM307 / XM312], or quite a number of other things. The general idea is that the Kriss has very light felt recoil for its weight [less than half the weight of a Thompson] because of the novel operating system. And I imagine they'll either limit the magazine, turn it into a peashooter or make it horribly inaccurate. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 02:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Or Infinity Ward could make the Kriss a Kicking Rad gun that you will get when you reach the highest level. An all around gun.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 02:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
::::What about the Rate of Fire? i don't remember if the Kriss had a high R.O.F. or not
:::::From the Future Weapons video I watched on the Kriss, it seems to have an average MP5 like rate of fire. But if IW does let the Kriss go all out, it'll be revenge of the pwned when people get a hold of it. Take that noob tubers! Have some .45 slugs in the face!--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
::Hey man, the noob tube is awesome.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

::People who hates tubers are just gamers. Sure I get off when I get hit in the face by an M203, but hell, I use one too. It's a very good field weapon. In combat, there is no such thing as cheap shot. There's hit and miss. Even in games, if you killed a guy, it's a kill, doesn't matter how you did it, unless you used cheats, but I use the M203 all the time, and 2 shells is what you get in multiplayer, so quit complaining, those on the recieving end of my tube. Now the P90 was a widely used gun for noobs cause of it's high ROF and mag capacity and with the slight of hand perk, you can reload the faster than you could in real life[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
:::People who complain about tubes in modern games don't remember the days of real noob-tubes, back when the 203 was your alt fire, had realistically-sized splash and had a zero arming distance, and a newbie could easily end a game with a positive score just by firing it point-blank whenever they had more than one person in front of them. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 07:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree i just hate the loss of a perk its better than juggernaut.--[[User:Panther61DC08|Panther61DC08]] 20:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

::ANYTHING is better then juggernaut man. And yeah, I use the M203 from time to time, but people who use it constantly should really just go sit down.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Most online gamers are idiots who most likely don't know the difference between a bullet and a bolt carrier, so they're going to label anyone who kills them a [insert gun name here] noob. If you kill them with an M4, you're an M4 noob. If you kill them with a P90, you're a P90 noob. If you kill them with a shotgun, you're a shotgun noob. It never ends. The point of playing a game is to have fun, so I'm gonna use what I like to use (including the 203) regardless of what everyone else thinks about it. If I nail some tit in the face with a 40 mike-mike, they can whine and cry "noob tuber" all f'n day, it isn't going to change that I put a 40 mike-mike into their face. Only thing about me is that I can do it from a block away (an in-game block, I mean), rather than at point blank. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:I have a Class that it's specialty is to piss people off. Yes, i am a asshole. BUT, i am a professional asshole.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

:As far as the Kriss goes they sure as hell have never fired it (which disappoints me that they put all these exotic weapons in that they really havent touched... in COD4 they actually fired most of the weapons and that gave it a level of authenticity) so i dont think they'll pay attention to the fact that it takes most of the recoil for you. when you fire it youll probably be shooting all over the place with heavy recoil -Mandaloin

::Well looky here, an icon for picking up a "FAL Red Dot sight" In the Multiplayer trailer. There is a god, because the FN FAL has finally made it into an awesome game![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 05:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

The Kriss does seem to have a comparably short barrel to the UMP. IW could lower the damage due to the lower velocity? not sure what barrel length is ideal for .45ACP but I just thought that could be used as a reason to balance? that and the Kriss only uses the .45 Glock pistol mags correct? so maybe your attachment is an extended mag to help compete? -FuriousOyster

:From what we've seen, the Kriss in MW2 is already being used with the experimental 26 round magazine currently being developed for the gun. As for barrel length, it's on par with the UMP, plus its shorter overall. Who knows, maybe IW will just make the Kriss what it is in real life, a hard and precise hitting sub machine gun. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Apparently IW got the Kriss right on how controllable it is when firing on full auto. It doesn't go all over the place. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:The Vector is stunningly good. A bit down on power, but accurate and it can handle it's high ROF. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Been unlocking the attachments for the Vector and it is kind of nerf on the power. It's really not the strong, but has a high rate of fire and accuracy [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

== HK416? ==

Possible HK416-

The SAS guy with the Mohawk & Glock @ 0:30 of the reveal trailer seems to carry something resembling an HK416 (Notice the rear H&K hallmark diopter sights...).
--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 15:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:Thats actually Soap. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

that is either the M4 or M468(most likely an M4)

Why would they add the HK 416? Internally it's far superior to the M4, but as far as video games go they're virtually the same.

I hope they don't. It's not that I necessarily hate the HK416 (well, okay, maybe I do ''a little bit''), but let's give LWRC's or Colt's gas pistons some love. The 416 and XM8 are way overused in shooters today. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:And the rear sight on Soap's M4 looks more like an ARMS #40L to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Again, why do people think that when they see a cool looking AR15 in a game or a movie shot they RIGHT AWAY say, HK416 or M468 AKA REC7 as it is called now.? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::Because a lot of people are so fracking biased against DI guns that it's crazy. They're quick to tout the AK's widespread use as an example of its so-called "superiority", but that same argument means "absolutely nothing" to the same people when it's applied to the M4 and variants ''chosen'' by elite forces all over the planet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:34, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

yeah, i agree, it is ridiculous, especially since you can upgrade an m4 to perform exactly like any of the other new weapons and do it for a $1,000 cheaper. it makes you wonder why were even replacing the m4?
:Same reason the army bought a new grenade launcher: It's shiny and new. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Well you have to think about the old saying. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. But with weapon systems, they do get out dated and don't last forever. Eventually it's naturally to want to replace what you have now even though it's an effective piece of equipment that's served you for many years. Think back when the M16 was first introduced. It got so much crap from the old timers in the military that it took almost a decade to get it fielded. And now the M16 is a beloved icon of American power and loved by millions. Times change and so would weapons. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:55, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

==FN P90==
Why haven't anyone added the P90? It has been confirmed and in the E3 trailer there was a pickup icon for the P90 and it said "Press # to ick up P90"
:Did you miss [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Modern_Warfare_2#FN_P90TR this?]-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

== Re-added ==
Hey evryone Activision has decided to re-add the Call of Duty prefix back to the Modern Warfare 2 title making the game now being called: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, instead of just Modern Warfare 2? Actvision added the Call of Duty prefix because of the lowered awareness of the Call of Duty series [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 17:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:So we're changing the name again on this site? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::The changing is not official yet. They're still calling the game "''Modern Warfare 2''" (source: [http://kotaku.com/5315981/infinity-ward-talks-modern-warfare-2-43-stories-up]). In fact, nobody at Activision or Infinty Ward ever called the game "''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2''", search any quotes you want. Also, the hardened and prestiges editions (collector versions) don't have "''Call of Duty''" on their boxes.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 14:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

i luv p-90 its awesome. i'v been playing modern warefare for one week now and what i did was i got bling pro(allows you to chose 2 perks) and i took a p-90 and put akimbo and rapid fire. its CRAZY. whenever your in close quarters with that combo, your invincibal.

-evilmidget25

ps il be online soon, its been three months and ill be back on chrismas

== Walther WA2000 ==
Does someone has an ingame picture of this game, because I doubt its presence in the game. And there is no use for a weapon to be listed if there is no proof.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
:I strongly concur with Phantom. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 17:16, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

"People, it's there in-game. Not in any of the missions I've seen, but I use it all the time in Spec-ops, Then gilly suited russians try to kill me with it when I play the chernobyl mission. there is a Frowny Face sticker on the inside of the scope cover. Very funny!" -Camden

== Behold, a really, really silly bundle: ==

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=219720

I can understand doing that for something like a ''Splinter Cell'' bundle (sorta), but... [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 08:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

:I'm so getting that... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

NVG's that max out to 50 feet, failll

:*facedesk* Behold, NVGs for less then 200 with a $70 game and art book, Who wants to bet those are made by a company who's name you can't pronounce and is based in a country that rhymes with Dina? Anyhow, I already pre-ordered the standard game, I don't need fancy art books and hard cases and crappy NVGs, I just want what may be the best FPS ever created, period. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
::I'm don't want the nod to use, I just want them as a bad-@$$ display for the living room. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:::And they actually function pretty well. I can make out the stop sign at the entrance to the complex I live in, and it's quite a bit further away than 50 feet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:13, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

== Cover Restoration ==
Does anyone have any unique or expensive software to put this image on the front page?

[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Cover.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Original]]
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Final.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The best I could do.]]

It's not the standard edition box.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:06, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

== SPAS-12? ==
Do you think this shotgun is a SPAS-12? Since we were shown that there is one in this level during a gameplay demo, it could be possible.
[[Image:MW2shotgunspa.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

its a FAMAS- the folded bipod

:Nope, it's a WA2000

::The Walther WA2000 has a "skeletal" look to it and is a bolt-action sniper rifle. This image shows the weapon having a pump gauge at the bottom, meaning that it must be some sort of shotgun, as opposed to the WA2000's bolt-action. <s>Besides, I may be mistaken since I don't pay much attention to the FAMAS, but the last time I checked, the FAMAS didn't have a folding stock.</s> --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I didn't see that you meant "bipod", not "stock". I don't see the point in the FAMAS having one of those, either. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

It's not a shotgun, the "handgrip" is too long to be a pump like you were saying, i agree with the fact that it is a WA2000, it has the same front end and flash hider as the walther. By the way, the walther can be either semi or bolt action.

yeah i think its a Wa200 too, you can even see a fat ol' scope and a bipod on it. look real close for the scope.

Now that I think about it, it looks more of a WA200, if not a SPAS-12, and it is definitely not a FAMAS. And please, fellas, sign your edits. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 17:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

== Confirmed Weapons ==
Could someone tell me where those weapons were confirmed?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
:Which one?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
::All of them. But if you can only confirm only one, then confirm the MD3.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
:::For the Imbel, I think it's almost sure. It has the look, it's Brazil... But it can still be a FAL... For the others like G36, Walter WA2000 or HK416, I will delete them until they provide us screenshots or other proofs that these weapons will be in the game. They think because modernwarfare247.com has listed them, it will be in the game but it's just a fansite, not an official one, and they don't have ingame screens to prove like us.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, the Imbel Makes sense to be in the game.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
::The forearm looks more like an Imbel than a FAL too.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Does this help on the FAL?
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Fal_online_vid.png
[[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]]
:HELL YES. Thank god there is a FAL in this. And, yes that helps on the FN FAL.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:53, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
::So, it's almost sure that the weapons carried by the brazilians are FAL? I don't think they will include two weapons pretty identical... Unless they changed the rate of fire on each weapon much like the M4/M16 AR.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:02, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
:It's the Imbel but Infinity Ward named it FN FAL. Like the AKMSU/AK-74S fuck up in Modern Warfare 1.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I think its the fal, it looks like it uses a bigger magazine therefore a bigger round, the MD 3 uses 223, the fal uses 308
::I noticed that too. It looks like a FN FAL with an 30 round magazine. But look at the Forearm. It looks like an MD-3 forearm to me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
:::But it could be based on the DSA SA-58, which has a shorter fore end, and curved .308 mags do exist. Either way though, a FAL in Mw2 is win in my books. Infact, here's a nice picture that may help that theory, [url]http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg[/url] [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Terribly disappointed that the 1911 is not used in multiplayer - JanG

:Not just disappointing, it's a crime. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:54, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

==M4==

The M4 used in the game had been confirmed as a Bushmaster M4. According to one of the guys working on MW2 he has told in the Call of Duty wikia that the M4 is a Bushmaster M4.... Could someone add that??

:wheres the proof?

::As of now, nothing can be added to the main article since there are no sources or evidence that provide the actual facts. Do you happen to have a link of the official statement? I think what he means is that the M4 (when mounted with sights or scopes) looks like a Bushmaster ORC (Optics-Ready Carbine), since it's rear and front sights are already removed. But just because it looks like it doesn't mean it has to be a Bushmaster. And again, guys, please sign your edits. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The M4 IS a Bushmaster! And proof is right here on IMFDB! I took this from the pic of Soap and enlarged it.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm97/SpartanWarrior198/Soap_Bushmaster_M4.jpg

Snake logo on the mag well is Bushmaster's. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
:And I just noticed Soap is wearing US Army UCP, as well... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:So what? In this fictional universe, Bushmaster makes all the M4s? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

::Well, true, but this is a video game set in the near future. It could very well be possible that Bushmaster took over M4 production from Colt (since their exclusivity agreement expired back in June) in the Modern Warfare world.[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
::And I doubt IW would put two or more different identical "M4s" in the game. I can see an M4 and HK416 or REC7 put side-by-side in the game because there are some slight external differences (and caliber increase in the case of the REC7), but there'd be no point in having separate Colt and Bushmaster M4s, both virtually identical externally, at the same time. But then again the still above could very well be just promotional with a Bushmaster put in because it's all they had available to model. But we'll find out for sure Nov. 10th... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmm... Bushmaster may have used the Call of Duty franchise to advertise for their weapons, as seen on the lower receiver of the M4. Maybe likely, maybe not; but it is a possibility. Cheers, --{{User:Blemo/Sig}}
::::HK did it with R6, so why can't Bushmaster do it with MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:: Whats with all the reflex sights, they do that in way to many games, if you look at the weaponry issued to SOF in america, they all use Aimpoints, ACOGs or Eo-Tec's so why do game designers feel the need to put in Reflex. every SWAT department in america has EO-Tecs on their M4s not a reflex sight.

==Winchester 1887==

No way this is a winchester 1887, you have to out of your mind to think that.
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:MW2Winch1887.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Winchester1887shotgun.jpg

yeah dude there's one in there, it must be like a cheat code to get it but there is a picture.

I dought you need a cheat code to get it as the enemy you can kill and take their weapons have it.
Also it could be the Chinese copy.
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

There was a ''Public Ennemies'' version of the weapon which was closer to the one in the screenshot, but it has been deleted.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

:I think it would be peculiar to have the old lever shotgun in MW2, but definitely a cool choice of gun. It may not be the fastest or most powerful, but it has nostalgia and cool to it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

It could be like the Stg-44 from COD4, a retro weapon.
It was called MP44 in Cod4 not Stg-44 that was in W@W just trying to help. -FuriousOyste
: The MP44/StG-44 was only in CoD4 as a nod to the other games in the franchise which are all set during WW2. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you can unlock Price's mustache as a nod to his awesomely awesome mustache from MW1? =D -FuriousOyster

Since IW seem to be going along the "fun" route while still sticking to a semi-realism point of view, it's probably safe to assume this was added as a "fun gun". It's likely with the recent videos of the "Flag Runner" and the addition of throwing knives there adding weapons that no serious soldier would use in direct combat but would be awesome to use a video game multiplayer match. It's possible they added it as a reference to Terminator 2, I wonder if they'll add the M79 and a portable minigun... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:11, 02 September 2009 (UTC)
:There should be two reload animations. The first one you reload normally but in the second one you reload like the T-600, With one goddamm hand.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

::That was only chambering fresh rounds, not reloading it, but I see your poit. Either way though, having an old school lever action shotty will surely make things, uh, interesting? And throwing knives will just attract goddamn ninjas. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

:::Ninjas that I'll gladly lay waste to in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::::Amen to that man, they can throw all the knives they want, but that won't stop them from taking a burst of FAL rounds in the chest. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Good luck getting a burst out of your FAL --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 05:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

:"Those who live by the sword get shot by the ones who don't". Ninja's were cowards anyways. They retreated rather than fought most of the time-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:05, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

::Not to mention that was against bows and arrows, not automatic rifles. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

for the reload animations I think the shells are being loaded in to the barrel!!

:No my friend, thats just how you load a lever shotgun. The tube you load the shells in to is the magazine, and the tube below it is where they eject from when you cock the gun after a shot. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Don't debate on the articles ==

Stop debating on the page do it in here that's what it is for.
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

:I am confused you say not to debate here but then you say to debate here. I am new to this.
::Jake, can you speak english?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::I mean don't debate on the main page with the articles it clutters it.--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 05:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::What Jake means, is that to hold all disputes, comments, and debates on the discussion (talk) page, instead of the article itself. The page you are looking at is the talk page and you should type any comments on this page. If you look at the top, there are seven tabs (varies on your status and monobook of the wiki), but for more users, it says, "page, discussion, edit, +, history, move, & watch". Make sure the "discussion" tab is pressed before you make your edit. Typing in the tab that says "page" makes the article look unprofessional and a hassle to read. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::I'll move all the discussion here...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 13:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

== Glock ==
The GameTrailers Analysis states that it is a [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22]], but this is unconfirmed. It could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] since in the video demo shown at the E3 conference, it fires fully automatically.
[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] - 9x19mm. This model has compensator cuts on the slide and barrel to reduce muzzle climb while firing]]
[[Image:MW2Glock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A [[Glock]] fired by "Roach" on a snowmobile in Mission "Cliffhangar". Note olive-drab frame.]]
[[Image:MW2SpOpGlock.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This US special ops has a olive-drab framed Glock in his thigh holster (barely off-shot).]]

*An interesting note is that the Glock fires dramatically slower than a Glock 18 or other converted Glocks. The Glock from the video's rate of fire is only around 600-700 RPM, where as a real Automatic Glock fires around 1100+ RPM -- Mythekal

:The guy COULD just be firing in semi VERY fast so that it seems like it's full auto. A lot of the handguns in COD4 if you tap the trigger in quick successions, it seems almost full auto [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". Glock 18's did not have this color available. Glock 22's just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a Glock 18 with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.

:::Not to disagree with you, I mean, you strike a really good point, but I've seen video game companies butcher their weapons into having colors or functions that they don't even have in the first place. Perhaps this is the case, although highly unlikely. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 17:08, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Not sure if anybody noticed, but the G18s in game does not have a selector switch - JanG

The Glock 18 can come with OD frames http://www.teamglock.com/Glock-Buyers-Guide/Glock-18.htm

== H&K USP .45 ==
Shown in a stage demo for GameSpot, Roach wields it with a knife at the same time. There is a similar technique where you do this with a flashlight. If someone would care to name it please do as I forgot for the moment.

*Take your pick from CQC, CQB, Combatives or Defendu. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
** The particular technique shown below with the support arm under the wrist of the main arm indexing the flashlight along the axis of the barrel is called the Harris Method. In this case it's being done with a knife presumably because it looks cool.
*** It's actually done for CQC and not just cause it looks cool. A similar method to this is what Snake does on MGS.But he holds the Knife with the gun by the grips.Perhaps the Harries method is more comfortable than Snake's CQC method,so they made it that way.
****
[[Image:HK-USP.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch USP .45 ACP. Note the slightly longer barrel/slide and grip compared to the 9mm and .40 S&W models above.]]
[[Image:USP_with_knife.JPG|thumb|none|400px|]]

== Akimbo ==

*Need some confirmation on this as I cant find any videos or images of this, supposedly the player is now able to Dual wield or go Akimbo with Pistols, particularly twin desert eagles were seen in a demonstration during a show off session to fans.

This is one of the websites with this article:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/08/27/modern-warfare-2-has-guns-akimbo/1

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]

:There was a screenshot of the Desert Eagle being held akimbo during a gameshow in Vegas (the name of which I forgot...) I'm not sure if it was already added to the article, but I'll take a look. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 04:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Now Akimbo? I'm having less and less faith in this new game with most of these cliche shit added on. We got too many kinds of new guns enough to put Rainbow Six to shame, odd matches for people and prototype guns in wide use. This game went from pretty cool to up down cliche generic shooter. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

== Leaked Video ==

Found this video while searching the net on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FuwFT4p5hA

At 1:28 there appears to be a new weapon, it looks like it says "Shotgun" but the video is low qaulity and I'm having a hard time finding out what it is? The icon image looks similar to that of a Saiga shotgun but I'm not sure. From the looks of it, the IMI Mini Uzi will be making a return.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]

[[Image:Mw2brazilshotgun.png]] I think it says (litterally) "FAL w/ Shotgun"... Shotgun attachment?!--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

MASTERKEY! that would be awesome! on the other hand... COD4 shotguns were pretty pointless. so I doubt an even shorter barreled one would be worth it.

:Yeah, there have been rumors of an under-slung shotgun attachment. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 04:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

::That does surely say FAL with Shotgun, as it matches the shape of the other FAL seen in a trailer, sweet! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

also confirmed in game masterkey is avalible -scarecrow

== Continuity Error(??) ==

Perhaps, in the E3 Gameplay video, the Infinity Ward boyz made a continuity error. If you will, note that Roach is first seen using a USP .45, but later, on the snowmobile, he switches to a Glock 18/22/whatever. Just a thought.

:Doubt it. games arn't that sloppy. Its probably given to you when you board the snowmobile because firing a semiautomatic weapon while you are going pretty fast wouldn't help much unless you have a very steady hand. better to have a wide spread than accuracy when you cant predict the enemy that well. [[user:5t3v0|5t3v0]]

::Well apparently you are able to equip 3 weapons?, but that still wouldn't explain how he got that glock.

:::What 5t3v0 says is true. Video game developers aren't that sloppy and I think that the publishers purposefully made this so-called "continuity error". I think that the Glock is for use only for the snowmobile portion of the mission, since its high rate of fire (compared to the HK USP .45) is more ideal for tracking and shooting fast-moving vehicles. Many other video games during their vehicle missions use the same logic (i.e. a mounted machine gun on the snowmobile in [[007: Nightfire]]). --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 04:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::::There's one on each of the snowmobiles, There's a holster somewhere.

Okay first of all, i know you know its just a game, so thats my first statement, and my second is, who says you cant have another holster on you, one on your thigh, one on your rig, or two on both your thighs? and then you either have access to it in the game or you dont, and we can all pretend like roach just doesnt want to use it until the snowmobile thing or something like that.

== New mw video ==

Gentlemen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4PMRFkx07g

Damn, the MP5K Looks SWEET! And throwing knives? kick-ass!!! man as soon as this is released im disowning my copy of COD4.

== Double Barrel Shotty ==

According to the guys over at the COD Wiki, the Double barrel shotgun will make a return(from COD5), has anyone else seen this?

* It's possible with the inclusion of other "fun" weapons like the Winchester M1887 and Throwing knives, but I'm not going to get my hopes up about it... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:18, 02 September 2009 (UTC)

:Try not to include wiki as a source unless there's pics of the actual shotgun ingame. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:41, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

::The OXM stated that (Official Xbox Magazine). The DB shotgun will have separate trigger for each barrel.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:44, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

:::You said it will make a return, it never was in cod4, or are you referring to cod5? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 15:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

::::Sorry, shouldve been a little clearer, i was referring to cod5

== Mk14 Rifle ==

The Mk14 on the screenshot is not a Mk14 Mod0 battle rifle but a Mk14 Mod1 ([http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/albums/closeup/Mk_14_Mod_1.jpg]), the second modification. Still based on the M14/M1A battle rifle/semi-auto rifle, but using M4 grip and stock with the EBR chassis. The version used by soaped also seems to sport a Magpul MOE stock with cheek rest.

Now that I see that new picture on the page with the mk14 in it I think that it is also a mod 1. Who else is thinks so?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== Highrise Gameplay videos (Cam) ==

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/modern-warfare-2/11043

Just saw this today, the "trailer" section also has a trailer cam of a predator missile and a supply drop, it also shows off the UMP45.

The newer highrise videos show a few weapons in the game that would now be deemed confirmed to a degree. It's labelled 1 through 5 in parts. They all feature different guns, I remember seeing two icons, one which was thought to be a place holder, the L85 was displayed as the L86 LSW (maybe an attachment for the L85?) including a PP-2000 Akimbo. Other's include various MG's which I can't identify, a SPAS-12 shotgun in full view (with appropriate icon) and the FAMAS and UMP.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

:The videos from Gametrailers also seem to show a silenced SPAS 12, which should be fun.

[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:14, 16 September 2009

== New video confirms a few weapons==

A few weapons are probably confirmed by this video from Screwattack, PP-2000 amongst them.
http://www.screwattack.com/Events/MW2HandsOn
[[User:DAnnysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 14:39, 16 September 2009

:Just from watching, I saw the FAMAS, RPD, M4, SCAR, PP2000, AT4 (now a weapon not a perk, and more.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

everything in the game is now content locked. that means any weapon seen will be in the final game

happy hunting

==Zombie Mode==

Any idea if theyll have one?

No they wont. Instead they have a spec-ops mode. Besides, its not cool of Infinity ward to copy treyarchs thing. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]

Yeah, especially when Treyarch has made an entire career out of copying Infinity Ward

== Create A Class Menu ==

Several weapons,perks, and attachments have now been confirmed in a new video's on youtube including [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], [[PP-2000]], [[M79 grenade launcher]], [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]], [[RPD light machine gun]], [[Franchi SPAS-12]] and much more.

Source: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s]

[[Image:CreateAClass.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Create a Class Menu.]]

== Infamy (New Trailer) ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8toHfZm6jNE

The Guy in the Airport wearing a black suit (presumably this Makarov character) looks like he was carrying a SCAR-L but then I noticed the RIS rails to which it was just a regular M4. It was weird how they made look very similar to the SCAR-L, yet at 1:31 in the Infamy trailer there's a guy with outline of the SCAR-L. It looks like the "Mini-Uzi" is now confirmed to be apart of the machine pistol lineup of weapons. Also does anyone think the AK at 0:57 looks odd? Kinda looks to me like a AN-94. - [[Draco122|Draco122]] 07:07 05 October 2009

*The weapon Makarov was holding looked like an M4 to me, but I think your right about the Mini-Uzi being a machine pistol now. And as for the AK it looked like the rest of the AKs I've seen from ingame pictures and footage. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 20:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

:The guy is holding an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The Russian tactical team that responded to the airport attack were referred by Makarov as FSBs. Even though they did deploy from SWAT vans marked as FSB, the Russian soldiers actually wear MVD uniforms, meaning that they were actually interior troops.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 18:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Wall of guns ==

Just got this off of Gametrailers TV. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

[[Image:MW2wallofguns.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
*Too late, man.)

== Sentry Gun ==

On Gamesrader.com, an article on the impressions of MW2, mentions a Sentry Gun in the Kill Streak list. After doing some research, I've found a supposed concept of the Sentry Gun on Modernwarfare247.com. Apparently it seems to be the XM312 .50Cal fitted with a Camera. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

[[Image:Leaked-mw2-art-book-12.jpg|300px|thumb|none|XM312]]

maybe its a .50BMG on a CROWS-type system

:The Sentry Gun in the game is an M134 on a tripod, as I've used some in MP. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Screenshot==

The first two are Scars, the second has a Masterkey, the third with an ACOG doesnt quite look right, and I cant tell what the digital one is, any help?

[[Image:Mw2scars.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

The two on the right might be ACR's--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 03:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The digital one is the bushmaster ACR. It looks a little funny but that is it.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== W2000 ==

I'm not 100% certain on this, but isn't the W2000 a collector's sniper rifle? I mean this is a rather expensive sniper rifle made as a colector's rifle. So why would the military be using it in whatever war this game takes place in?

And we're supposed to know the thought process behind Infinity Ward's weapon decisions how?

Remember the game black where w2000s were just laying all over eastern europe?

:Yeah, ever since Black came out, WA2000s have been known to be laying all across Europe, ripe for the picking! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Haha Agent 47 spends thousands of dollars just to maintain one yet European armies can buy millions of them just to lay around randomly :P

From my play through, I can only find one. The one you see on the wall of guns picture.

I've seen them in several missions. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== Unfocused ==

This game is looking more and more gimmicky by the day. It's as if they're going all out to jam as much modern technology into the game as possible, whether it makes sense or not. Brazilian militia with FN F2000 assault rifles? Russian terrorists with the TDI Vector? ''Really''? --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 08:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's true that I feel the game is adding so much new stuff it won't be anything like CoD4. It bothers me that Infinity Ward is going over the top just because of its huge fanbase.
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

For those of you who have seen "Lord of War", remember Nicolas Cage's quote: "Where there's a will, there's a weapon." I'm sure that their theory for the MW2 universe is that some FN or TDI salesmen forgot who they were working for, and sold their latest & greatest weapons to the bad guys, and got paid more in a day or two than they would earn working for a decade. I believe that money is the most corrupting force on Earth. Also, I do recall a story about some F2000s winding up in the hands of a militia in East Timor a few years ago, and I'm not sure whether or not FN figured out how they got there. -KLR
:I've heard of this happening with a custom M14 maker. One of their people was rebuilding some MK14Mod0 on the side and smuggling them to the phillipines if i rememger correctly. The man was caught and is spending a long vacation is club fed. --[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

As much as I agree that the weapons are going a little crazy (how the hell do Brazilians in the slums of Rio get their hands on such powerful NATO weaponry?), remember this game isn't set in the present day, its sometime in 2016 I think. So who knows, in that year the rarer weapons of today may be more widely available. Unlikely I know, but possible. [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 10:45, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:And besides, the game would be very boring if everyone had AK's. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::Not exactly. Im not liking the whole high end weapons idea for militia. I would have been fine seeing militia using ak variants and other common battle rifles. --[[User:mythekal|mythekal]]

You must remember that all gangs in Rio get majority of there weapons from buying over seas and from corrupt military and police units, who themselves have stockpiles of powerful NATO weapons (M4s, AKs, FNs,etc.). And the Brazilian militia's leader is an Arms Dealer who has ties with the Ultranationalists, any Arms dealer that big can afford to give his men some much more flashier weapons! Also this is just a game too! --[[User:Choi117|Choi117]]

:In the first game the russians had g36cs, ak-47s, m9s and 1911s, not like, ak-74s and makarovs. In this they seem to have gone to just having tacticool bullpups and high-end everything.....I laugh if you pick p an m9 in brazil even though your infinitely more likely to get a taurus pt92.

One aspect of Modern Warfare 2 is notably the fact, that although not identified by developers, is the way in which the worlds runs, MONEY!, believe it or not but the American government has been dealing arms for years, all to up there pay check, the result is quite devastating, its give there own troops a disadvantage but what do they care money's, money, they would give nuclear weapons to iraq if there was enough money.

:Actually, the American government deals arms mainly to friendly nations and used to deal arms to CIA backed insurgencies. So, you know, they wouldn't be selling things like NUKES you moron. As far as the purchase of these weapons, just consider Mexico today: You have a 'military' (if you can really call the Mexican Army a military) where 250,000 soldiers have left to work for a drug cartel or just left the country, leaving their rifles with the cartels. Then you have those same cartels buying firearms from third world SA countries that were provided firearms by the US for insurgencies. Then you have cartels buying firearms from people very similar to Cage's character in Lord of War. In 2016, it's more than believable taht those dealers could be selling ill-gotten FN2000's to wherever they damn well please.

::I think that they are adding all of these guns because after Zakheav died the ultranationalists kinda fell apart and now they use anything they get their hands on so some of their guys probably decided too buy their own guns and thought they might as weel go big.

If you think this game is unfocused you haven't seen the 25 kill streak perk yet! A Freaking Tactical Nuke, I'm not joking: http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/modern-warfare-2-25th-killstreak/333858[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]
:That idea makes the game sound more ridiculous than it already is. This is way over the top now.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Can someone explain what "in egoview" means? pictures have the caption something like "the SPAS-12 in egoview " somethign like that. Is it suposed to mean first-person view, only written by someone with poor english?
:Presumably it refers to First-Person view. If you look, all the HUD text in those shots is in German. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

This is interesting discussion, but I have to say I think you guys are missing the point a bit. I'll cede the points about modern weapons being more proliferated in the CoD universe, and the one about the criminal factions (Militia, Ultranationalists) having large financial reserves, since this is fiction that's entirely possible. But, even if a criminal organization did have vast resources of cash, I'm sure they could find more important things to spend money on than outfitting their dime-a-dozen armed thugs with modern NATO assault rifles when they could just buy a bunch of AKs for a quarter of the price and be done with it, immensely simplifying training and logistics in the process. After all, what can a poorly trained, militia thug do with an FN2000 that they can't do with an AK-74? I guess my point is that the many iffy decisions made about the weapons in this game represent, to me, the entire ethos behind this series:''"Screw "logic" and "realism", let's just focus on making everything '''totally f**ing awesome''' ohlookanexplosion!"''

I guess I can't fault them, really, since this kind of attitude is right in line with the ''attention-deficit teenage douchebag'' demographic they're catering to nowadays. It just irritates me because it's basically the complete opposite of what I'm looking for in a war game, and I get all the more irritated every time I run into one of the aforementioned douchebags, fresh from playing this game, who thinks he's now some kind of authority on firearms. IW could be so much better if they wanted to. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 21:53, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

:Dead on the money Matt. What gets me is, a lot of criminal organizations NOW have, ahem, LARGE sums of money and cash. Hell, it's not like the Mafia or Russian Organized Crime are exactly "poor" organizations, but does anyone here think the average Mafioso or ROC thug is packing an FN2000, or a tricked out M4, or an AUG, etc? Hell, even a lot of the militant Islamic extremist groups are extremely well funded, yet, they're still packing AKs and RPGs. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 12:48, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you so much, Matt. Over Christmas break I visited my 16-year-old cousin who was just cleared by his father to play M-rated games. Guess which game he bought the minute he got this newfound freedom? Now he's trying to tell me how combat is really like the game and that "the Intervention is arguably the best firearm ever made." He also tried to argue when I told him it was really called a Cheytac M200. My god this game really turned out to bother me deeply. But joke's on me, I went out and bought it myself. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:06, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

== M21 EBR ==

Just to make sure no one changes it back. Even though it doesn't technically exist, that is what its called in game. The logic behind the name is: M21 (Sniperized M14) + M14 EBR (Modernized M14) = Modernized Sniperized M14 = M21 EBR

Alright, to be blunt, I LOVE the M14. Whenever I used one in Call of Duty 4, it was like the second coming of Jesus Christ. I just got done reading that the M14 used in this game is, as said above, a M21 EBR, and is classified as a sniper rifle. When I found that out I was extremely pissed. What I don't get though, is that in the Breach and Clear video that is out there, there is clearly a Mk. 14, with open iron sights. Based on all of this bullcrap, it appears that you will not be able to use the M14/Mk.14 EBR/M21 EBR/or-whatever-the-heck-we-are-calling-it without a scope. I am aware that MW2 is somehow sneaking out into people's Xbox's already, and I would greatly appreciate if someone could elaborate on this?[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 00:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:Putting a scope on a Mark 14 doesn't change its designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:52, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Been checking with various sources on M14's and this M21 EBR is just an M14 fitted into a Sage Stock. it's nothing more than the numerous M14's I've seen used as a DMR.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:35, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
:I say we just stick with calling it Mark 14 Mod 1 and note in the description that its in-game name is M21 EBR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
:And, while I've not yet played MP, every instance of Mark 14 use in SP refers to it as "M14 EBR". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:03, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::It's officially called the M21 EBR in MP. However a friend of mine tells me when fitted with an ACOG it makes for an alright assault type rifle. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::Still a Mark 14 as far as this site is concerned. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::And what pisses me off the most is that besides the scope and smaller magazine. it's a Mark 14 EBR. Why IW decided to turn it into a sniper is beyond me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::::I'd imagine they did it for balance, can't have a sniper rifle with a 20 shot magazine. Unless you get extended mags then maybe it might be better I dont know [[Draco122|Draco122]]

::::::I don't see how that's supposed to balance anything. 20 round magazine or not, a sniper rifle is still a sniper rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:::::::How much of a bump does extended mags do for the EBR anyhow? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::::::::I haven't gotten them yet myself, but I'll let you know when I do. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::You get a whole whopping 5 extra rounds. 15 round magazines. Yeah... [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 02:36, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::I've now heard rumors that in the spring DLC (mostly spec ops stuff) They're bringing back the G36C, The Skorpion, one of the sniper rifles, and the M14 will be back to an AR. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::::::::::I'm so sick of the G36C! Everywhere I got, everybody wants to have babies with a G36C! Let's have an HK53 instead this time, or a Mark 12 SPR. A Mark 12 Mod 1 SPR would be a fun. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::::It would be cool, but it would be VERY redundant to the M14 EBR, not that the G36C wouldn't be either, but all the snipers are almost exactly the same (look up the real stats, the ones in game arent right), I think adding any new sniper would be kinda dumb. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:54, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

(Moved from the M14 EBR section of the main page by [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]])
*The reason it has been labeled as the M21EBR is because it has been modified into a sniper rifle. The modification of any M14 into a sniper rifle changes it's classification to an M21.--[[User:Dethshadow170|Dethshadow170]] 22:47, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
** No, it just makes it an M14 with a scope. Case in point is the USMC issue M14 DMR. Fits the criteria of "M14 converted to sniper rifle", but still called an M14, not an M21. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:08, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
**Besides, just adding a scope to a gun doesn't change what gun it is. An M21 is not just an M14 with a scope as the Mk12 SPR/SAM-R/SDM-R is not just an M16 with a scope.--[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 21:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
*** By "modified into a sniper rifle" I was implying that it's full auto fire setting was disabled, plus the addition of the scope, bipod, etc.--[[User:Dethshadow170|Dethshadow170]] 22:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
****Actually, the majority of M14s left in the government arsenals were converted to semi-auto only fire early in their careers, because when it is fired in fully automatic, to quite one of the foremost arms experts Dr. Atwater, after the third round fired in full-auto, the M14 "becomes an anti-aircraft gun". You will occassionally see one M14 that lucked out of this modification (and I am sure that all of the ones the SEALs maintain in their own armories managed to escape it as well), but it is just not so effiecient when issued to everyday soldiers and is a recipe for a very powerful but also very inaccurate general issue rifle.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 17:01, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

== Two new videos ==
This is the level you get for beating the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhjh8KxFPkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czJEO8skB64

Damn good videos, I'll have a lot of fun with that museum :D Does this mean theres not going to be any semi-auto assualt rifles? Everything seems to be full auto in those videos...:( [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 19:38, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

in the video description it says that the person playing was using rapid fire.

They likely removed the use of the G3 and M14 from Multiplayer due to people using the modified controllers to enable rapid firing, though I remember seeing that "Rapid Fire" was being made as an Attachment for weapons, not something I'd imagine seeing in singleplayer [[Draco122|Draco122]]

:An added note about the "Museum" level is a button on the front desk. Press it and all the soldiers in the exhibits come alive and try to kill you! Good fun if you stock up from the weapons cases first. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Wow, Dual wielding all subguns?==

watched video of dual mp5ks and p90s........wtf is wrong here?

Where is this video?

:Even worse, I heard it was possible to dual wield shotguns. [citation needed] Yeah, ordinarily I wouldn't just put that out there without a source, but given all the other stupid decisions IW have been making lately, I can believe it. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 01:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

you dual wield sawn off doubles, its showed in museum gameplay.

:Wouldn't firing a sawed off one handed dislocate your shoulder?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily, but that doesn’t mean it is the smartest way to shoot a firearm. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 05:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

You know what this means, every noob on the planet will be duel wielding in MW2 like it's Halo 3 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:23, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Meh, who cares? Yeah, I think dual wielding is an action movie cliche, too, but I'll just play the game the way I want and everyone else will do the same. It most likely won't be long until people are whining and crying about "dual wield noobs" like they do about so-called "noob-tubers". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, i use a noob tube on one of my classes myself, it may piss people off, but snipers piss me off. Besides, its not like the noob toob is good in close quarters, it only holds two rounds and has slow ass reloads. I use mine to countersnipe when they try and hide behind cover.

:I only use noob tube when coming up against a map with lots of trenches or caves or buildings, the better to lob nades into. I prefer the ACOG in MW2, as now it doesn't suck like in CoD: 4 [[Special:Contributions/142.166.195.174|142.166.195.174]] 18:08, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Anyone who cries about what weapons, perks, or attachments another player is using needs to either learn how to adapt to the environment and opposition or quite playing multi-player altogether. "ZOMG! He killed me with a grenade launcher! Not fair! Waaah waaah waaah!" Some people just need to grow the feck up and stop being pansies. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:49, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. the M203 is a useful tool. so are shotguns, i was sick of hearing "SHOTGUN NOOB!" after the first time i heard it. now this is just an opinion but when indoors and within the effective range, i dont think theres a better weapon. they provide a large spread pattern that can be useful in high stress situations. im not saying you dont have to aim a shotgun at close range, but neutralizing a threat can be easier with with buckshot (defense loads) than with a single slug from a pistol or rifle. in my opinion there is no "noob" weapon. when they are all used properly, each individual weapon serves a specific purpose. cheap tactics is what makes a bad player in my eyes. someone who uses a high capacity weapon (P90, Light Machine Gun) while sitting in one spot picking off players who are trying to have fun and play "right" just ruins the expirience for everyone else. and in my expirience these "campers" are the ones who cry like babies when THEY get dead at the hands of a P90 or shotgun. but thats just my opinion.--[[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] 17:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't particularly think ''any'' tactic is cheap (nor any weapon a "noob" weapon), no matter how "unfair" an advantage one thinks it gives. Some tactics are just simply more successful than others. The fact is that MW2 is a '''war''' game, and so goes the old saying ''all's fair in love and war''. If a machine gun camper kills me, so what? I'll just respawn and continue with the game. But that's the point, it's a ''game''. Some people take games way too seriously. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

:For me, my response to ppl calling others and me campers or sniper whore, noob tuber. I just reply "It's a legitimate strategy". Don't get mad, get EVEN. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:50, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

::Totally agree. I mean, I could possibly be wrong, but isn't "camping" essentially what snipers and machine gunners ''actually do'' in real life? I know it was last time I checked... And I sure as heck wouldn't want an M40A5 to clear a room with. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:07, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::As for dual-wielding, well some of it is logical. The P90 is designed to be easy to fire single handed, so in theory it could be dual-wielded, reloading would be impossible without slings though. As for the Mini-Uzis, c'mon guys, they're Uzis, how else do you Uze them? The Vector too could work, as the fancy anti-recoil system would help it. But with the UMP, I think you'd be in trouble. .45 ACP without anything to control recoil equals you not hitting jack all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::::The ''proper'' way is how else to use a Mini Uzi. One hand holding the pistol grip, the other tightly grasping the fore-end for maximum control, and aiming properly down the sights. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:21, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

:::::I think it was a joke, I mean, how many people do you see firing one properly ;) Also, I think most strategys are legitimate, not that I camp, I don't. I just hate it when people use something for what its not meant for because its "good" (usually means easy to use), camping (kinda) with a snipers fine, or even an LMG as long as you're giving covering fire, but things that piss me off are sitting in a corner with a heartbeat sensor and waiting for people, using akimbo 1887's, using M16 Red Dot Sights, using Hardline, or using Commando. I think thats most of them... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:54, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

::::::I'll give you camping in a corner with a heartbeat sensor, but what's wrong with M16s with red dot sights? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:18, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

:::::::Well, nothing really in this game, it was overpowered in COD4 cause it could out-snipe people with snipers half the time, but come to think of it it's okay now, it just says something about the person is all, to me at least, same reason I don't like Hardline. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:08, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

::::::::"I like an effective weapon" is the only thing it would say in my POV, but then again the majority of CoD MP players are a pretty whiny crowd. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

== RIOT SHIELD ==

Just played the game and i have to admit the riot shield is the most fun weapon to use in multi-player. Bashing enemies to death is extremely gratifying. - JanG

i love when people use it, theyre easier to kill. Especially with the knife. If you are anywhere but directly in front of them they cant block it.

-k9870

That, sticky grenades, and powerful caliber fmj weapons are the only thing that can break through the shield - JanG

:A WELL AIMED grenade from an M203 would take a guy with a shield out[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

::Unless the guy has a Blast Shield (explosive resistant face mask) equipped, he won't die unless it's a direct impact from a 40mm. He'll even survive sticky grenades on his shield. I've survived plenty with a Blast Shield on when I've got a Riot Shield. Half the time though, after a hit with a 40mm I'm near death anyway even with a Blast Shield on and usually the guy still has a second shot [[Draco122|Draco122]] 17:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Hitting the shield with a 40mm won't kill the guy, the trick is to hit just behind or under him, launching his ass into the air. also FMJs work well, as do Semtex grenades. I myself use Marathon, Lightweight and Commando with my Riot Shield, as well as blast shield and an AA-12 for sticky situations. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Semi Auto only FAL==
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:39, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:The only Thing I could think to defend it is in The Falklands War both the UK and Argentina used the FAL. Which the UK used their L1A1 in single fire only, the Argentinian Army had theirs on Automatic, which Military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun. I've never fired one, but in the game I like the controlled fire of the FAL, of it would just fire like another AK.-Km314
:But it shoots way too slowly ingame to be of much use. They should have made it shoot in bursts of 2-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
::From what I experienced in Multiplayer, it's powerful, it would be way to powerful if it was full auto, I think Infinity ward was going for a thing like they did in CoD4 with the G3. 1:21, 13 November 2009

I think they purposely brought down single fire rate to keep people from using modded controllers too. The g3 would fire as fast as you pulled the trigger, and anyone with a modded controller had an unfair advantage. The FAL is a true single shot, mods or not. I like it.

To whoever said "military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun", I believe one person on the Military Channel does not count as "military expert'''S'''
Just look at this guy: he's not shooting down any planes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1q8GiSIdc

Are you a damned bloody fool??? Not every shooter out there is a cocked diesel motherfucker like him. Seriously, if you're that much of a damned idiot, DON'T POST.

If anything, the FAL with an ACOG makes a great DMR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

:I dunno whats with all the fuss, I love the FAL in MW2. Sure auto would have been fun, but it's hugely accurate and powerful, not to mention long ranged. A Holo sight makes it a perfect AR, and an ACOG pretty much makes it competition for the EBR. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

But I think I wish it's like in Rainbow Six where you can switch firing modes. The first 2 Call of Duty games did that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Yeah, and I sort of expected firing mode switches in MW2, but I guess not. But really, the FAL would be ridiculous on full-auto man. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Which is weird cause the SCAR-H fires the same round as the FAL and that is full auto [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Tacticool-ness ==
Well, this game is awesome and all, but i hate the fact that they made it to be a HALO knock-off. Dual wielding? Glock 18s? God, this there ever going to be a game that gets Special Ops right? -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:No, because the average person doesn't know dick about guns or the military-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 02:25, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
::I really thought that it would be a badass fucking game, which it is, but they made it just too fucking...tacticool. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

Its what happens when they cater to mall ninjas, dual g18s, dual deegs, dual sawn offs.... and the plot made no sense. Price launching a nuke, sheperd going bad, i love how the start of the game has sheperd just standing there without body armor in a war zone where the loliest terrorist could pick him off.... k9870[[User:K9870|K9870]]

: Wouldn't you find a guy who uses .44 magnum in a modern war to be very cocky and arrogant? -[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]]
::True, but some Generals do carry Colt 1911A1s and the such. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:No, anyone who can get a M1911 Authorized carries one-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:35, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

But most generals of today, especially a Lieutenant General would NOT be standing out on the front lines or strongly recommended not to. What is a Lt. General doing in Afghanistan anyway? The game also took out a lot of the old guns in the previous MW game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:38, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

:Not to mention they chose what's essentially a wallhanger sniper rifle (WA2000) over a number of battle-proven designs (M24, M110, even the L96A1 that Counter-Strike players seem to be so in love with). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:15, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:I would rather use my Winchester 88, shooting Hornady Custom .308's, over any of those rifles-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I agree that the WA2000 was a Stupid choice. That rifles has custom wood stocks and high quality handbuilt precision, and isn't meant for combat use. The only non magnum or anti-material sniper is the M21 EBR, which has a wrongly animated 20-round mag that only holds ten rounds. They dropped the M40, R700 and Dragunov, and gave beginners the Barrett .50 cal. I'm not the best sniper, but I wouldn't have minded a nice bolt action rifle thats not chambered in a massive round. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::No, Dragunov is still in the game. As far as dropping the M40, it would seem logical to do so considering there are no US Marines in MW2. And having the R700 as a separate weapon than the M40 was just pointless, IMO. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::::The Dragunov being in single player doesn't count. Why build it into the game and not add it to multiplayer? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::::Probably the same reason the M40A3 in CoD4 was restricted to MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:13, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

== Glock 18 with red dot ==
Hey if anybody plans to use a G18 with a red dot sight without a silencer I just wanted to tell you that using a G18 in this configuration is a bad idea, the muzzle flash of the gun on full-auto is so large that it actually blocks the view of the dot so much that you can barely see the dot
:Glock 18s were already a bad move. and put three ~ at the end of your text to show your name. like so: -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::I have to agree, without the silencer used the G18s muzzle flash ruins your sight picture, not to mention it has zero range and horrid accuracy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
Ok thanks for telling me how to put my name on a page, and the G18 is an ok gun, I mean the gun tisn't that accurate when you do a full clip 33 round burst, but it is a good close quarters gun because you can hose down an enemy in about two seconds, and I sometimes use it to pin down other players because they think that I am using an MG and when the gun runs out of ammo and they jump out of cover I spray them with a real MG. [[User:Korean war marine]]

I use it for close quarters only, with usually a UMP or Vector to back it up in case I need some accuracy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Glock 18s don't use clips, they use magazines. And I agree with Winchester and M14fanboy, Glock 18 (along with Desert Eagle and Magnum revolver) was a bad choice. Heck, I'd take a Mark 23 over any of them in a combat op any day. They should put in actual ''combat pistols'', not mall ninja favorites. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:They also removed the 1911 from multiplayer. That is just bull shit. I was hoping for a P226 or something from SIG since we got so many British characters or Browning Hi-powers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:30, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I had Hi-Power hopes as well, or possible the 226. But a Colt Anaconda and Desert Eagle, I thought this was military, not ghetto. The only good handguns really are the USP and the M93R, which is like a mini-M16. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::I've said this before and I'll say it again that this is a ''war'' game, so they should have dropped the Desert Eagle, Anaconda, and Glock 18 for actual ''combat pistols'' like the aforementioned Hi-Power, 226, and 1911. Heck, I even had hopes that that new Russian service pistol (MR-446 Grach, I think it's called) would make an appearance, but my hopes were all for naught. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::::I know man, it's dperessing to see a WAR game with nothing but stupid magnum handguns firing ridicilously large rounds. Theres a total of two legit combat pistols, the USP and M9, and while I haven't used the USP I can say the M9 is shite. DLC pistols pl0x! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Is it just me ==

or does infinity ward think all firearms in the near future will have a bunch of Picatinny rails on them?

:They just watch too many movies. But then again a lot of issued guns now do have rails. That's how the Marines Corp get their M4s and M16A4s now [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

::All firearms in the near future (aside from oddballs like the XM8) ''will'' have Picatinny rails. Modularity is the wave of the future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually if you look the extra rails are for the heartbeat sensor attatchment, which goes midway along the left side of all the guns its on. The UMP and P90 have them even though SMGs can't have that attachment, so obviously they were going to at some point in development.

== ACOG "off" after EMP among other things. ==

Ok, I get the fact that all electronics that were turned on would have been knocked out after the EMP struck, but...when I picked up a rifle with an ACOG, the lights were out, leaving only a black reticule, which is bullshit because ACOGs don't work like that. They are not battery powered and as such would not be affected by the EMP. I also find it hard to believe that none of the soldiers had flashlights that were most likely turned off during EMP. Another nit-pick is that your weapon after the EMP was an M4 with an EOtech mounted on it. Why couldn't the creators have your character just flip up the iron sights? You had to pick up an entirely different M4, also coincidentally like yours with an M203, with iron sights up for that kinda of thing.

This is one of the many minor lazy details they could have done. Like for the ACR. I know for a FACT that the ACR's bolt release switch is in front of the trigger. It was designed so when you insert a fresh mag, all you have to do is press forward on the release right in front of the trigger! But instead, if you are empty, you insert new mag and then with your FIRING HAND, take it off the pistol grip and pull the charging handle back! One, no soldier would is RIGHT handed would taken their trigger hand off the grip unless they need it to fix a malfunction. They would use their NON firing hand to pull the charging handle since the charging handle and in fact the entire RIFLE was built for both hands to operate. But no, IW wanted us to waste precious seconds to see the wrong hand pull the charging handle. I got shot so many times using the ACR when I am empty completely because I can't just press the bolt catch with my trigger finger as the gun was DESIGNED to! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

To add more fuel to the rant fire, the Glock 18 is an ok gun, I'll admit that in small bursts. But when you reload, you don't press the slide release, which would make getting back into action faster, but instead you're treated to your character pulling the slide back! This is only good for range shooting a Glock, since the slide release is pretty weak, factory wise, but in combat, pulling back the slide takes too much time, in fact, there's a couple seconds delay when reloading an empty Glock. That's why I try to not reload empty weapons. Always mid magazine change. It'll save fustraions for you watching your character take his damn time reloading and doing unneeded things like pulling the slide back or in the ACR's case, use right hand instead of left hand instead of pressing trigger finger forward. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

And even MORE nitpicking. Look at how they attached the M203 on a Tavor in the game! I've seen what an M203 with a Tavor looks like in real life and it works ergonomicially but the way IW did it in this game makes it look stupid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

its a game and just about every gamer you come across wont know about weapons like i have been telling people about the screw ups and they said if they did not give it a name they would have just called the m93r a machine pistol and most people i know call assault rifles machine guns. -scarecrow

yeah I too noticed on the ACR how they made the unnecessary action of charging it and all that when, like they did with the SCAR and M4, they could just push bolt release, which would probably decrease reload time in the game. but hey, maybe the did it cause it would "look cool" - Whatsagun

:Well at least for the M4 and SCAR, they are slapping the bolt release on the side of the gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

:Seriously, no one else noticed how the M4 was modeled on Semi?-protoAuthor 03:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

The M203 in this game is based on an RIS-mounted airsoft replica. [http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/wp-content/uploads/2007/NewshotsofCASCARM203fromVisele_1022A/DSC021252.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:31, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Back to the mocked up Glock 18, I think all videos on youtube never show full auto Glock's reloading. Just one magazine and "The End". But there was this one video on youtube called 298 rounds in full auto and it showed this guy with a mocked up Glock 18 not using the slide release lever, just pulling back the slide. With this video close to 5,000,000 views it's quite obvious IW got there ideas from that video.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI Glock 298 rounds in full auto]

:In response to that, I keep saying that most people target shooting with a lot of their guns would pull back the slide instead of pressing the slide release because every time they press down on it, it degrades it more and more. In a combat situation, you shouldn't be thinking about that if you are rushing to reload. If you are on the range, pissing bullets, then you do the pull slide back. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I wanna nitpick on the gun selection in this game. I'm sure they did this to expand the number of guns used, but some of their choices just kinda irk me. For instance, why does the Russian military use FAMAS, Tavor TAR-21, MG4, UMP, TDI Vectors, PP2000, AUG, AK's and RPD's? Seriously, TAR-21's? Israel doesn't even really like Russia right now, considering that they're selling weapons to people who want to destroy them.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:Well the AKs, RPD and PP2000 are obviously Russian weapons, but I hate that they didn't give them AK-74 type weapons, but all 47s instead. The Russian military doesn't use AK-47s anymore. They've switched to the smaller rounds. They also had the Russians during the Wolverine mission with FALs. IW obviously didn't know a thing about Russian military of today and didn't want to just give them all AKs, so they slapped them with a bunch of other guns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
::Wait a minute, aren't russians in the Wolverines mission ultranationalists? Because if they are the terrorist ones then they can have any gun they want.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
:No they're the russian army. I'm guessing that you haven't played the game (spoiler) as it is the russian army paratroopers invading the east coast of the U.S. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC))

I think the Ultra nationalist won the civil war in Russia. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that IW was not thinking in terms of reality but in terms of playablity. I mean, think about it, how boring would it be if the only weapon you could find was an AK-47?

Yes, I have to agree that it seems that IW knows jack-shit about firearms, just like most everyone else in the world, unfortunately. An FN rifle with a reciprocating charging handle? Come on. [[Special:Contributions/70.196.44.211|70.196.44.211]] 01:03, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

:At least they didn't make the single player M16A4 a full auto weapon and made it burst. That one's ok. And seriously, if they were modeling their guns off of airsofts, or even real ones, how can they fuck up with the SCAR's rear flip up sight? It's very hard to miss where it folds. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

I'll join the Nit picking, do correct me if I am wrong on this though. At least one of the Spec Ops missions has a suppressed M1014 and Striker. I haven't gone into multiplayer yet so I don't know if they pop up anywhere else, but I have never heard of a shotgun being suppressed. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

:There's also a silenced AA-12 in one, too. But like you, I'm not to sure about how feasible the silencing of a shotgun is. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

:They probably got the idea off the suppressed Remington 11-87 in No Country for Old Men. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:30, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

When EMPs emitted from nuclear explosions they effectively send a massive charge through any electrical cable. To be more specific, an EMP is composed of three things. The E1 components of EMPs have an intense electric field that induces very high voltages in electrical conductors. The E2 components act like the EMPs from lightning, but as a result are also easily protected against. An ACOG, however, is certainly not protected from this. The E3 component acts like a geomagnetic storm, which produces even more geomagnetically induced currents in electrical conductors, which damages electric components. While it is true that the ACOG uses tritium versus a battery, this does not change the fact that it uses electrical conductors (cables) to connect parts. The EMP would fry the ACOG, regardless of its power source. Besides, batteries use electrochemical energy, so there's nothing different in the battery from everything else in the ACOG except for some salt. The fact that the ACOG should not have been affected by the EMP should be removed. --[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 19:20, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

The ACOG doesn't have a power source... Tritium is slightly radioactive which is why it glows. Nothing electronic about it. If you were right night sights on a pistol or even the tritium notches on my watch would go out. This isn't true at all.

== TMP or MP9? ==

Hi. Just wondering about the labeling on the MW2 page. The game calls it a "TMP", but on the MW2 page it's labeled as an MP9. Since they look the same, why bother calling it the MP9 when it is in fact the TMP? -KLR

:Because the MP9 is the newer version of the TMP. I do believe Bruger and Thomet took over production from Steyr, who no longer makes it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::Isn't the side-folding stock unique to the MP9? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:32, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I think that was a part of the update too. Either way, unless those are old TMPs, the MP9 is the logical choice for the game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::::Update? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:::::The update Bruger and Thomet made when they took over building TMPs. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Walther WA 2000 screenshot==
Did someone have fun or is this an unedited screenshot from the game? If you look at the scope you can see an unhappy sick face painted on the scope cover. I have yet to use this gun, so I don't know. My money is on someone having fun. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

No, it's really like that in the game, the only people having fun there was Infinity Ward :D [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]]

:Thats the emblem used for a certain class of accolades, and a comedic effect as well. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

stop lieing to the guy. yes it does have a sick face painted on the cover its more noticeable on the WA2000 theres one on the barrett M102(idk the spelling or the number) aswell but its hard to see. theres none on the intervention or the M21 EBR. - Scarecrow

==L86A1 LSW drum magazine==

It is impossible in real life to fire and handle an L85A1 LSW with a 100 round drum magazine? --[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 15:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

:Impossible? No. Incredibly uncomfortable, awkward, and impractical? Yes.--[[Special:Contributions/141.165.142.102|141.165.142.102]] 16:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

::Unless you're left-handed or have ''really long arms''... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also the drum in the game model doesn't make sense. That's surely not big enough tohold 100 rounds, looks more like 50 to me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:If you shot it left handed, the charging handle would break your jaw-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
::I didn't know the L85/86 had a reciprocating charging handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
::: Either way you'd still get a face full of hot brass firing left handed. Which may probve to be a problem if I decide to enlist... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
:::: There's a theory of mine that in the very early parts of development, the L86 was going to be in the AUG's slot and the L86 now was going to be the Chinese Type 95 LMG. The AUG was apparently going as an Assault rifle as people initially thought. To me, the Drum magazine looks very similar to that of Type 95 LMG, maybe sometime mid-development they decided to change it to something else and merely slapped the Drum magazine on there? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]]

== SCAR H is really a SCAR L ==

I think that the SCAR that is in the game is actually chambered in 5.56. I say this because it holds 30 rounds and after the helicopter is shot down in DC you are given a mag for an M4 from Sgt. Foley who has a SCAR. I think they had the SCAR replacing the M16 as the main battle rifle of the U.S. Military with the M16A4 being used for the reserve troops. They probably used the SCAR H model to make it look cooler. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
:The SCAR in the game isn't chambered in anything because it is a video game. Also if I am not mistaken IMFDB policy in regards to videogames is to identify guns purely by looks, not by any specifications. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
No its the Mk. 17 as evidenced by the larger flash suppressor. Infinity Ward probably created a 30 round mag to keep it more like an assault rifle than the battle rifle it is. Also the soldier who gives you the M4 dies and the clip could be from him.
Here's a picture of the flash suppressor to show it's an Mk.17--[[User:Km314|Km314]] 06:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
[[http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/c/c0/SCAR-H_Lv8_II.png]]
:''Magazine'', not clip. And I thought there had been a 30 round magazine introduced for use with the M14 rifle a few years ago? Last I heard, the Mark 17 still used M14 mags. And, while this may not be the best of arguments here, the Mark 17 in-game has heavier recoil than either the M16 or M4 and generally seems more effective at longer ranges than the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

It only has the 30 round magazine in single player, incorrectly, but in multiplayer, it has the 20 round. A lot of the weapons in multiplayer is correct but still, IW did miss a few things, like the rear iron sight for the SCAR is supposed to fold down towards the user, not away. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
:Regarding the rear sight... someone on IW's forum actually pointed that out to them sometime prior to the game's release, but they didn't do anything. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

== Is it an M9, 92FS or 92SB? ==

I'm confused. We have the title of the handgun called an SB, then a photo of a 92FS and then in the description, it's called an M9. Which one is it? Isn't the game trying to portray an M9 since it's military use? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

it should be cleened up. well im guessing that some one that only knows of the 92FS the civil version of the M9 (what its suposed to be) posted it
but its a 92SB because of the rounded trigger guard. -scarecrow

== Combat Knife ==

Can anyone identify the combat knife used in the final level? I know I've seen it before, I just don't know where. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:05, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

-If it's the same one that shows up in the sneak type missions I believe its a Blackhawk Tatang or SZABO FELONY STOP. --Pawnstar

:Looks like it's the Tatang. It is DEFINITELY NOT the Szabo Felony Stop. Thanks for the help, chief. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

just played that level again and i dont think its a tatang -scarecrow
: Well, they look exactly alike, from the design of the blade to the look of the grip. The dimensions may be a tiny bit off, but that's not all that surprising.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 21:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Is that the same blade that appears when you melee? Gunner313
:Not sure. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 21:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
::The melee knife, throwing knife and tactical knife are all different, IIRC. Easiest way to see the knife is to throw one and look at it. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:34, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

i sware someone edited my post? i originally said that the one in SP is not a tatang the blade and grip a different shaped from what i remember. the one online is a tatang and the melee knife is a tatang im not sure about the tac knife the next time im on il check. il post a pic of the final one soon -scarecrow

There are actually only two knifes, Soap's at the end (not sure what it is), and the Tatang, which is the melee/throwing/tac knife/the one Soap and Price stab the guards with when they rappel down and when Price stabs the guy at the top of the stairs in Just Like Old Times

--[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:44, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

allright to end this once and for all the melee/tac/throwing knife is the tatang but the endgame throwing knife is differant

The article also incorrectly states that the Tatang is not available with a serrated blade, when in fact it is.

== Vector things ==

Just wondering,isnt the ingame name of the Kriss SUper V "Vector" wrong,because the gun has the TDI CRB/SO magazine and stock.

:Copyright stuff.

I thought the Vector is the most modern variant from TDI. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

wait what? i thought the CRB/SO is the semi auto civil version[[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:51, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== AUG ==

Is the AUG supposed to be the equivalent of the FG42 from WAW? --[[User:Phil|Phil]] 22:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:What do you mean "equivalent"? I know what the word means, I just don't know how it applies here. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:45, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

:Why would you compare a WWII weapon to a modern rifle? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::Maybe he's asking if they fill the same role? I know the AUG Hbar classifies more or less as an infantry automatic rifle, intended to function as a magazine-fed light support weapon. Was this the FG42's role? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:05, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

From what I understand the FG42 was designed to give paratroopers a rifle that would replace the Kar 98, MP-40, MG-42, and their pistols in airbourne jumps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FG42 gives you a good idea. Grizzlybar

I think he means the M82 (Barrett .50 Cal) is to the PTRS-41 as the AUG Hbar is to the FG42. Understand now? And to answer your question, Phil, no I don't think so for two reasons. They both perform differently, especially in terms or recoil and magazine capacity. Second, Treyarch likes to copy Infinty Ward, not the other way around. It's not like IW to take an idea from Treyarch.[[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:45, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

:I wouldn't say that at all. The HBAR has a 42 round magazine, the FG42 a mere 20. Also, in WaW the FG42 has a stupidly high ROF which burns the mag if you cough on your controller. The AUG is more accurate and has a better ROF, not to mention it looks better IMO. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Suppressed Shotguns ==

I find it weird and kinda stupid that the game has suppressed shotguns. Every single shotgun has a suppressor and they are very quiet sounds too [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:I'm not too sure on how feasible silencing a shotgun is either. Either way, suppressed shotguns seem to me like the in-game equivalent of bringing an airsoft to a gunfight: USELESS. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
The only way you can silence a shotgun is by porting the barrel and installing an integrated suppressor. And it never will be as quiet as portraid in the game. There is a vid on ytube where one gentleman show his silenced shotguns.

well at least they didn't screw it up compleatly and put suppressors on the 1887s [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:54, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
:Shush! Don't give them any ideas! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== GP-30 reload ==

As you know, russian under-barrel grenade lauchers (GP series) shoots caseless rounds. But why the f character in MW games feels the need to shake something (shellcase?) out of the bore after each shot? How could IW let such harsh technical inaccuracy in both modern warfare games? I could assume that this was done for balance sake, but why not just make longer but proper looking animation.

:Like you said, it was done for balance. IW was more concerned with "fair play" unfortunately. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:18, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

::I just thought that it would be better if they left the ejection animation out and extended the time duration of the animation of putting the new round in. That way, it makes the game more realistic ''and'' balanced. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:30, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
:::True. I mentioned the same above. But the thing is that this game was aimed at mass gamer audience most of which know donkey dick about weaponry and, in particularly, some Russian muzzle-loaded under-barrel gls. Neither they know that 1 cartrige stays up the pipe when you reload mid-mag. IW is a money shovelers now. Too much disappointments for me. I don't buy their games anymore.

:::Very true. Even ''I'' didn't know how the GP launchers functioned up until a few years ago. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:36, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

== art book scans? ==
hey i was just wondering does any one know where i could find some scans of the art book from the prestige ed if someone could upload then a post a link or find a link to a nother site thats would be great thanks [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Enjoy [http://img253.imageshack.us/g/mw21.jpg/ link]

thanks mystery person [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 08:06, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
:Funny, my artbook doesn't have pics of SCARs or MG4s in it... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:36, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

== Removing Sights ==

I was wondering how hard it would be to remove mounted sights (like the acog, HALO sight, red dot sights, etc) from the top of the rails on a battlefield. I'm sure it would require tools, but would soldiers be required to carry these tools? I was just wondering because with the EMP blast, when the battery powered optics become useless, how hard would it be to remove those sights and use the backup sights? Aren't the backup sights there in case something does happen to the attached sights?--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

::No way! If you could adjust your weapon on the go (like in Crysis, Stalker), it would be just too complex for a game like CoD.

:No. The point of mounting an optic onto a system is to not require tools (although I'm not too sure about the HALO sight). Many of the mounts use thumb-screws that you tighten by using your hands. It's not as tight as using a wrench, but in in emergencies, this makes them easier to remove. As of the back-up sights, I'm afraid IW uses them only for aesthetic purposes, and prove no purpose. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:27, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

:No, no special tools are needed to remove any of those optics. Just twist a thumbscrew or flip a throw lever (depending on type of mount), pull it off, and you're good to go. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Just been wondering. I don't expect games like COD to be all that realistic (given the plot and the characters ability to regenerate health from near death). Was just wondering how difficult it was in reality.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 16:43, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

:The stupid part of the EMP was that the ACOG scopes were not on. ACOGs don't use batteries to light up their sights. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:::Yeah, that's an embarrassing error. They could do a spectacular animation showing player (and some of his squad-mates) dismount their sights, throw it away, flip up buis' and remark how it fucking sucks. Those in team with ACOGs on their pieces would leave them and have greater accuracy. Also they could insert some comic conversation between rangers, like: "Dud, I told you ACOG rules, brah". And of course player could find rifle equipped with it.

its surprising how many ignorant people there are i nearly got in a full argument with someone a few days back over the fact he claimed (and still believes) ALL ACOG sights sorry he thinks ALL sights apart from iron sights are powered by battery i guess thats why he looked puzzled when i started laughing at him i guess IW is just a group of ignorant people that should do more research [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 10:04, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
::And their military advisers are as ignorant.
:::I doubt they even have a military adviser. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:04, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

:a lot of sights can be co witnessed, where you can still use your irons looking through the sight when off // disabled. Hell often times the dot in the sight lines up with your front sight post. -stu

So out of all the ways Infinity Ward took a crap on realism with MW2 we're complaining about the ACOG turning off...? [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 12:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::I would close eyes on bullshit perks and story, if they made everything from the technical side at least look properly.
::::I'm not just talking about perks and storyline or even technical stuff. How about the ability to single-handedly breach into a room with a 37-pound .50 caliber rifle and kill 4 armed men in 2.5 seconds using 4 rounds. Or maybe the fact that every freaking weapon has a full rail system on it, even in the hands of ragtag militia in Brazil and Afghanistan. Or maybe how I can squeeze 30 rounds out of a 20 round SCAR-H mag. Maybe it's the fact I can run around with 2 UMP-45's and reload them by putting them at my side for a second or two. It's probably really the fact that the M240B has very similar, if not the same attributes of the M249 SAW from COD 4 despite the fact it uses a drastically more powerful round, weighs more, and has a slower fire rate in reality. It could just be how you can take out everyone while firing a fully automatic Glock pistol (mislabeled as a G18) with one hand while driving a snowmobile over a giant cliff with the other. Rant finished. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:31, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
from what I understand the SCAR-H uses M14 mags and to my knowledge there are 30 round mags for the M14. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:49, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not sure on that, but even if that is true the in-game model is unquestionably a 20-round mag. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 20:01, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
that being said you should notice that the FAL has 30 round mags yet only 20 rounds in them.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:02, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's weird, in the Singpleplayer, the FAL has 30 rounds, which is correct, but for some reason in Multiplayer, they gave it 20 for no good reason. The SCAR-H is correct in multi with 20 rounds, but not in single [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:::::It would be overpowered and evil if it had 10 more bullets in it!
::::::Yeah, and all the kids would be screaming and crying at "FAL noobs". XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:13, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm more annoyed about the tubers because the game promotes the use of grenade launchers to unlock the shotgun attachment a 203 kill counts as a kill to the rifle it is attached to [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

==Screenshot location==
Does anyone know where in the game was this screenshot taken?

[[Image:Mw2_1911_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M1911 in ego-view.]]
It seems to defeat the "it's only usable in bonus mission" bit. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:16, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:I think it's the museum level. There's a diorama of the prison mission, complete with helicopters. The picture if just confusing because you can't see that it's just a diorama. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 17:38, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== Desert Eagle Picattiny Rail ==

I FOUND IT! Magnum Research offers a barrel with Picattiny rails: http://magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=BAR506 [[User:Yocapo32]]

== The Next Call of Duty games ==

Do you think they should do a Korean war and Vietnam War Call of Duty?

It's confirmed by Activision that Treyarch will be making the next COD and it will be Vietnam [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Gold Desert Eagle ==

I don't have the game but I saw some videos of the new maps and the player had a Gold Desert Eagle. Can someone tell me about it?
:It's just like any other Desert Eagle aside from having a gold finish. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:39, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Well how do you get it on this one?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

It can be accessed trought hacks. But moderators are gonna kick you in the ass, throw your Xbox Live (Or whatever) account to a hole, dump gasoline on it, then throw a cigar in the hole --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.201.179|190.176.201.179]] 01:57, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Probably saving it for a $10 DLC.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-05-23T02:42:36Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* MP5k */

This game has a cold war look to it

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

== Wait... ==
Upcoming CoD,what what what?!
--[[Special:Contributions/76.235.34.31|76.235.34.31]] 02:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun, i would lose all faith in mankind if i saw a Delta Operator/Seal using any type of bullpup, Europe can have their bullpups, id rather see us with heavily customized hK416s, and MP5K is definetly better than a TMP or MAC-10 or an Uzi

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be included too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-05-23T02:39:35Z

Dirtdiver 6421: /* good decision */

This game has a cold war look to it

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

== Wait... ==
Upcoming CoD,what what what?!
--[[Special:Contributions/76.235.34.31|76.235.34.31]] 02:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be included too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)