Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Metropolis

2013-04-14T22:17:16Z

DAN11: /* Fritz Lang */ new section

Is this a silent film? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Yes it is. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:28, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

== Fritz Lang ==

This Movie was by far not one of the first movies he directed. I guess this movie would have been way to big to let someone new direct it, I think it is ( or at least was ) one of the most expensive german movies ever (as far I know the money came from his movies about the Nibelungen). --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 18:17, 14 April 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Far Cry 3

2013-04-10T22:26:02Z

DAN11: /* Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon */

Yaay, Frank and his amazing collection of exploding rust will ride again. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:From what I saw in the demo at E3 (I watched Microsoft's press conference live yesterday), it looks like this game will be set on an island like the earlier games in the series. Frankly I'm surprised no one had beat me to the punch and made a page for the game already. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:59, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I'd heard of it being in development, but I wasn't aware there was any actual footage of weapons in it yet. I guess I'll have to start saving for another PC and set aside 40 or so hours to screencap it like last time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:05, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Here's an "insane" walkthrough video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXHmWRziHA [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:26, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Waaaaaaiiiit a minute...I see a crashed Zero, ancient ruins, and they're talking about this island's "dark secret." Looks like this is going to be an ''actual'' sequel to ''Far Cry''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:39, 8 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Loved the first game, so I hope it will awesome. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK ==

The AK has a muzzlebrake, but the mag looks like a 7.62mm mag instead of the straighter 5.45mm mag. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:32, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:If you watch the video, you'll notice that all the features of the weapon except the magazine match the AK-74 (handguard & stock, receiver cover, muzzle brake, front sight assembly), with the magazine being the only part that doesn't match. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

Dang DinoHunter2! You did '''EXACTLY''' what I was going to do, I was considering changing it to a AK-103 like half a hour ago and the description change is the same as I was thinking, good job! :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:23, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:You're welcome Mr. Wolf :D - [[User:DinoHunter2|DinoHunter2]] 18:18, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol ==

It's a modern 1911 with a under-barrel rail. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:21, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:Never mind, I was too slow. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

YEY! Finally a Kimber in a game! I'm looking forward to this game regardless now :D --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:47, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

[[File:FC3KIMBLER2.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A Kimber Warrior in ''Far Cry 3'']]

Heres an interesting thing, if you look at this wallpaper [http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/ncsa/FarCry3/wallpapers/fc3-wallpaper-1920x1200.jpg] you will see a guy with a Glock, however, you can see a HAMMER if you zoom in! uh oh. At least he has good trigger discipline. :) -m82a1

:s&w sigma? --[[User:Gtcsmc|Gtcsmc]] ([[User talk:Gtcsmc|talk]]) 16:35, 10 December 2012 (EST)

== SVD? ==

An alternate demo walkthrough features what looks to be an SVD or one of its derivatives. Anyone care to give this video a look? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_9fsXPNs34

On a side note, the same video confirms the M67 in game. The throwing animation is actually kinda cool, as you see the spoon being released before the grenade is thrown.

*Looks like an actual Dragunov, it's got that bend in the safety lever that the Romak doesn't have, and it looks like they've given it the right handguard and no X stamping on the magazine this time. Of course it's a lefty Dragonuv, but I think that's to be expected. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:20, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
::Maybe it's the Far Cry 2 model with a new texture, that might explain why it's a lefty gun, hope that changes in the final game, the other guns are righty guns. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:51, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, in both that video and the one I posted above, the Blackhawk helicopter the player hijacks is shot down by what appears to be some kind of rocket launcher. You can't see the guy firing it clearly, and I only saw a split-second glimpse of the rocket milliseconds before it strikes the aircraft, but I think it's possibly an [[RPG-7]] or Type 69. I don't want to add it to the page until more concrete proof is found though. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:32, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Here is a image of the rocket launcher:
[[File:FC3RL.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] 14:38, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
:Definitely a RPG-7/Type 69, most likely a RPG-7. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:42, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== Will brass fly left still? ==

I'm wondering if these guns will be like the previous game and have the brass eject left [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:49, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

*Well, so far the AK and Kimber look like they're right-handed and only the SVD looks like it's a lefty model. Now, interestingly, I'd heard that the developers had seen our ''Far Cry 2'' page (some podcast or other had a guy saying some guy on the team, I think the director, had pointed him to it) and it's actually looking like they took note: for example, they've fixed the handguard of the SVD, the magazine, the scope now fills the screen to avoid that issue where the area outside the scope was zoomed in too, the reticle now has the numbers on it (though it's missing the lower line of the rangefinder and the 1.7, and has one too many chevrons), and he holds it at the hip like the stock's under his arm rather than inserted partway into his shoulder. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Now if only Infinity Ward and Treyarch would follow that lead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:45, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Recent news ==

I've heard from the UK Official PS3 Magazine that the game world is supposedly going to be ten times the size of the world in ''Far Cry 2''. To be honest, this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence; one of the biggest problems with ''FC2'' was the size of the world seemed to have been decided in some board meeting before they had a single idea down as to what they were going to put in all that space. The result was a game that had you going five miles from A to B simply because they wanted you to see all the effort they'd put into the huge map. It can be done (see ''Just Cause 2'') but it makes me nervous hearing they're on "look at how big our map is" rather than "we have so many great ideas the map has to be at least this big." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:08, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Ten times the size? I lost intrest in Far Cry 2 because the game is not an FPS, is a driving game with peolpe trying to kill you at the checkpoints! OK, I'm exagerating but it's way to big.--[[User:MAndolin|MAndolin]] 08:35, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

But on the flip side, bigger maps can mean more space for more content. It's not the size of the maps that is the problem, it's what they use the size for. Far Cry 2, spatially, I thought was lovely. The driving and auto-attack enemies got old, but there's nothing about the space that seemed to be a problem. There was always somewhere to go and something to do. If they made travel more risky/interesting, and enemies didn't auto-attack you at every turn... it would make it more interesting. Furthermore, other methods of travel... such as helicopters, planes, etc. would do a world of good. Also, they need to focus on the end game more... after you've finished up the quests, that's it. There needs to be more repeatable content. Houses need to be more dynamic and upgradeable, hopefully with actual windows... not just instances you enter. That, and they need to expand more on the "hunt" and stealth aspect. It was awesome in Far Cry 2 just picking apart groups of enemies, but sucked because they -automatically- knew where you were 90% of the time... negating all stealth. It seems this has been vastly improved in the little footage we've seen, and the inventory system seems to be expanded as well. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:22, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:Naw, the problem as I see it was in FC2 before they did ''anything'' they had that 50 square km number set in stone. This led to the problem of just having normal-sized quests with waypoints that were ridiculously far apart from one another; the result was basically a 10 hour game which had another 20 hours of driving and random fights thrown on top. Not that there was anything wrong with the combat mechanics, but one key point of an open-world game is you should be able to choose how you address a situation; always having the enemies set to max aggression / kill you got wearying. A good example of a different approach would be the checkpoint halfway through Cordon in ''Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl''; there, you could shoot everyone. Or you could sneak down an anomaly-filled corridor nearby and bypass it. Or risk radiation and wild animals to use a gap in the fence way down the railway track in the other direction. Or you could put your gun away and bribe the officer to let you pass. There were consequences to all of these; for example, if you killed them all you'd then have to repel a large group of Bandits by yourself rather than the guys at the checkpoint attacking them when they got close.

:Like I said, the trouble in FC2 was that number was how big they wanted it to be, not "it can't possibly be smaller than this, because we have so many ideas to fill it up with." That plus the landscape felt annoyingly static and "dead" with no dangerous animals and no people outside fixed camps. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:33, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::I totally agree, I was also annoyed by that. I mean it would have been cool if you were stalking at night and you attacked by a pack of hyenas or that there was actually some '''people''' instead of just psychotic brigands. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:10, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:I read somewhere that the player's name is Jason Brody, if anyone wants to use that information --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:05, 23 December 2011 (CST)

The source of these problems is the fact that FC2 and FC3 is are console-centric games. And consoles are running on, by PC gaming standards, hopelessly outdated hardware (circa 2005). The relative lack of RAM and processing power means that open-world games like these are seriously held back; changes to the world are rarely permanent, and it's very difficult for the console to remember what you've done (such as items stored) in locations that aren't fixed. Sometimes it's just a matter of scope and dedication. [[Boiling Point: Road to Hell]] was only on a 25 x 25 km map, but featured drivable vehicles of all kinds (in which you could store almost any amount of items) such as boats, patrol ships, single-engine planes, and leisure/combat helicopters, factions that fought one another and treated you accordingly with respect to your reputation, upgradeable weapons that decayed at a realistic rate (you could fire 1000s of rounds and end up with a 10% chance of jamming), an RPG system that increased your skills with weaponry the more you used them and your body stats the more you ran or carried heavy stuff, and jungles filled with animals out for your blood or whom you could hunt to sell their corpses or parts to traders. By contrast, the STALKER series only got a functioning faction wars system starting with the second game, never had drivable vehicles, and had no upgrades or repairs for its weapons until the second game. The STALKER series did, however, have an A-Life system that tracked the presence and deaths of mutants and NPCs behind your back, even if you weren't in the area (something that has rarely appeared in other games, the only other example I know of being the X Universe series of space free-roam games, PC only). It's sad, really--there are more fans of console games than ever, but many don't realise just how gimped their games are compared to what could be accomplished on PCs running current hardware, much like how Crysis 2 was badly scaled back from the original. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I dunno, it strikes me more that FC2's problem was in how they approached map design and the lack of things to do. Just Cause 2 is also designed with consoles in mind, but it's more fun because it has a better interaction of game mechanics and more memorable characters. In FC2 if you took all of one faction leader's dialog and gave it to the other you'd find it hard to tell it was wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== New Trailer Out Today ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYPnDDr7sMk Here.] - What are your thoughts, guys? Obligatory dubstep for some reason, as a cinematic trailer it looks pretty awesome. -- Long Fallen 16:24, 15 February 2012 (CST)

This does look pretty good, but doesn't Vaas or whatever the bad guy's called use a standard M1911A1? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 05:50, 16 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah it appears so. Its definetly not the Kimber Warrior because it doesnt have the white grips, and appears to have a black or possibly blued finish -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 13:08, 20 February 2012 (CST)

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Oa8Q7RV78&feature=player_embedded Leaked trailer, showing actual gameplay!] -- Long Fallen 17:12, 20 February 2012 (CST)

== Most anticipated thing about FC3... ==

Most definitely the page Evil Tim is going to do for it. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 17:45, 15 February 2012 (CST)

Id like to second that. [[User:G36Ghost|G36Ghost]] 18:27, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

== New gameplay, New guns ==

If you look at this gameplay footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxTXv4SbEZ4&feature=related

You can see a couple new guns (A shotgun and what I think is a DShK machine gun), plus a grenade (Which looks like an M26) - [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 18:27, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun looks like it could be either a Mossberg 500 Mariner or a Remington 870 Marine Magnum, with a ribbed barrel and a accessory rail mounted ontop of the reciever. You get a good look at the ejection port at 4:37 of the video. What is interesting is, the sling is wrapped around the reciever despite it having full stock as the ingame icon shows.

Also in the video, if you pause really quickly at 0:07, the AK looks different. The wooden furniture looks more pale than in the E3 trailer, also the magazine is different in that there were vertical lines going up and down on the magazine in the E3 trailer but now the lines are going horizontal; a good shot of this is at 0:19 when the player reloads, look between the player's hand and the reciever of the gun and you'll see.

As for the DShK, I'm not sure but it looks like it to me. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 22:02, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun appears to be a Remington 870, the handguard is wrong for a Mossberg and the ejection port matches the Remington as well. As for the heavy machine gun, I'm going to say DShK as well. Saw a lot more of the customized AK-103 as well, as well as HE-Frag hand grenades, either M67's or M26's. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:25, 21 February 2012 (CST)

New trailer. Somewhat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGrWuw5CEgM&feature=plcp&context=C41236b0VDvjVQa1PpcFNiqixtTbtxFd1-Gkazt_wHZG5RBOCYPLk%3D

You can see a Vz.61 Skorpion at 1:36 and a blink-and-you-miss-it shot of some unknown gun at 1:47. A TDI Vector maybe? -- Long Fallen 18:42, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

Shows the barrel-end of a TDI Vector during the middle of a reload animation. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 19:23, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

I managed to get a screenshot of a gun at about 2:14, seriously hard to see though.

Check this out:

[http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/084/f/e/far_cry_3_unknown_gun_by_timaman-d4tveo7.png]

No idea what it could be, but it shows that at least one gun is on aftermarket ironsights. Lets hope they don't do a CoD Black Ops and put them on every smg and rifle in the game. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 10:40, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

-- My money's on the TDI Vector shown earlier in the video, check the spent brass... looks like .45 ACP to me. Definitely not an AR, that's what I thought at first. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:55, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

At the end of that video it shows a Type 10 flare gun as a preorder bonus. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:54, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

[http://www.gametrailers.com/video/teamplay-interview-far-cry-3/728785] New gameplay trailer, some new guns in there. Spotted a Makarov PM, PP-19 Bizon, some M4 variant, and what looks like an Ultimax 100. Also, another pre-order bonus offers a "skinned M700" (Remington 700 with camo probably, and some screenshots depict a SPAS-12, Mini-14, Remington 700, and a rather odd looking MP5 being used.
[http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_280646_thumb_wide620.jpg]
[http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_280649_thumb_wide620.jpg]
[http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/118/1188467/far-cry-3-20110817104323708_640w.jpg]
[http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/122/1222265/far-cry-3-20120404085727938_640w.jpg]

== Multiplayer gameplay New Weapons ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-jo-AX_7V4] --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 06:26, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

There's an icon of an MG that I'm unsure of at about 1:18. A KAC maybe? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 11:48, 14 April 2012 (CDT)
:I agree. Also, at 1:26... Makarov 6P9? [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 17:12, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

There's some new guns in the screenshots below. Not sure what that first LMG is, but in the second screenshot, that looks like a FAMAS G2. It doesn't seem to have the larger trigger guard though:
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/i403204-8/far-cry-3-multiplayer-far-cry-3-multiplayer.html#a375541

:The machine gun in the first image is a PKM with an RIS and a different muzzle break. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:54, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

:Has everyone forgotten about this page? There have been numerous weapons in the trailers after the last edit.--[[User:Speo16|Speo16]] ([[User talk:Speo16|talk]]) 16:07, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

== E3 has come, and with it comes more weapons ==

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731423

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/730867

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731397

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731100

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/730899 (kind of NSFW)

Nice variety of new weapons here. Don't know what that bolt action sniper rifle is in the first video however.

I was gonna put this down as a Daewoo K3 (or an M249) until I saw the STK Ultimax 100 Mk3. However it looked too big and had the stock so was not wanting to put it under either until someone else had had a look. Thanks -

[[File:6P9andMKG.jpg]]

Same video there's also a flame thrower as a secondary weapon. Doesn't look much like the LPO-50 or whatever from FC2 - 1:05

During the gameplay there seems to be an underslung grenade launcher on the SIG, I was just wondering if anyone could ID this. It could be the proper SIG 5040/5140 or perhaps an M203 if they are wanting it for other weapons and just reuse the model

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731513

A better look at the flamethrower, and an icon for a submachine gun that looks like a M4 Spectre at the 4:28 mark.

Could be an M4A1 or a HK416, looks too short to be a standard M4A1

[[File:M4A1side.jpg]]

It looks to have a monolithic-style upper receiver; notice how there's no seam where the receiver becomes the handguard. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:21, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

There are a few new trailers that have just been released I noticed quite a few new weapons in them. Definitely worth a look.

==Walkthrough==

The walkthrough is up on Game Anyone, as expected. Unlike the Max Payne 3 and Black Ops II leaks, the game has actually been released in Europe as far as I know and thus it's not against the rules to post screencaps or information. So far it appears that a .44 Magnum revolver is in the game, though I can't tell which one. There's also a SOCOM 16, correctly semi-auto. The Remington is listed as a 700. The flare gun is back, with a gold finish, and they added a recurve bow that can use explosive and flaming arrows. The flamethrower is back, but it looks like a fictional design. The starting shotgun purports to be a Baikal MP-133 (as the M133), though I can't tell if it's wrong. The in-game guidebook provides background on all weapons and sometimes justification for their purpose; the Kimbers were purchased to an exact specification for a private army, and Vaas (the villain) bought the Baikals in bulk. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:05, 29 November 2012 (EST)

It doesn't appear that the Makarov comes standard with the silencer; it's still got the first part attached to the gun, but you need to purchase the second part as an upgrade. Odd, but it does skip over the problem some games have where an addon turns the gun into a unique variant instead of just attaching something. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:47, 29 November 2012 (EST)

:It certainly isn't out in the UK yet (release is the 30th), so I'd hold your horses if I were you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:38, 29 November 2012 (EST)
:: Checked again. November 29th (today) is the Australian release date. Unfortunately, it'll probably take several years for anyone in Australia to save enough money to purchase a copy. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 19:32, 29 November 2012 (EST)

:::Well, I'm downloading my copy now despite Norton Antivirus' apparent dislike of Ubisoft's downloader, so we'll see. Though given video upload and encoding times, I doubt you'd get a release-day upload of a long game like this without either haxing being involved or the player having no clue what they're doing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:38, 30 November 2012 (EST)

::::I can tell you the flamethrower is still an LPO-50, they've just dressed it up; if you look at it on the pause menu you can see the ignitor cluster at the muzzle, the pistol grip, and the fuel tank selector. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:01, 30 November 2012 (EST)

== Weapons from the Wiki ==
These are pictures from the game's Wikia Page. I can't figure out how to post them on the main page, I can't remember how to post the pictures themselves. A lot of weapons posted on this page appear to be missing from the Wikia page but that's probably due to lack of updates. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 00:06, 30 November 2012 (EST)

'''Pistols'''

1911: The Kimber .45 in the game. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/1/16/Kimber_Warrior.jpg

.44 Magnum: Appears to be some kind of revolver, sorry for the bad quality. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/c/c1/Untitled5.png

There doesn't seem to be a page for the Desert Eagle.

'''Assault Rifles'''

P416: The HK 416 that appears ingame. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/d/d8/Untitled6.png

MS16: A modern version of a M1 Garand with a hideous camo job and the cocking handle appears to be on the wrong side or Jason is using one built for left handed people. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/0/0c/FarCry3_M1Garand.jpg

'''Sniper Rifles'''

M-700: A (possible) Remington 700 in game. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/8/85/Remington_M700.jpg

:I like how you refer to the [[Springfield Armory M1A|M1A]] as a modernized M1 Garand. You could just say M14. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:39, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I apologize about that. I wrote this section at 1 am where I'm at and I was very tired. I didn't see the magazine behind the player's hand and the Far Cry Wikia said that weapon was a Garand. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 09:20, 30 November 2012 (EST)

== Anyone else really disappointed in the lack of weapon details? ==

For a game with otherwise a ton of effort put into it, why are almost all magazines empty? Why is the bolt on the left side of several weapons? Why does the M1887 not seem to be cocked on empty reload? And so on ....

Most of this could been done in less than an hour had they actually tried. What work is that of a few magazine textures? Instead half of the weapons are now unusable. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 10:10, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Aw wait, the bolts are on the left side of the weapons?! Which one? Damn it, I thought the developers learned their lessons about that crap. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:50, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I think the bolt of the Dragunov is on the left, but i am not certain as my copy of the game has not arrived yet, but i have clearly seen the M1A has a left-sided bolt. Ironically, it is also one of few box-magazine weapons that actually has visible rounds in the magazine when reloading.

And bizarrely enough, the AK-103 seems to have visible rounds when taking the magazine out of the weapon, but not when inserting a new one. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 17:45, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Looking at all the caps we got now, it doesn't look like any of them have the charging handle on the left side [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:47, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Vaas is holding a Glock like gun with an external hammer and is missing the things in the front to take down the slide [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:25, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== Single players weapons ==
Some of the weapons listed here, do not appear in single player campaign, or maybe are completely removed from the final game, this should be noted no? Among them the desert eagle, Vector , spas-12, galil, hk416, there is however a heavy sniper rifle used during one mission to cover the characters friend, I couldn't identify it only the barrel and the scope is seen.

== MP5 Handguard ==

The vented handguard seen on the MP5 is an actual aftermarket upgrade made by Heckler & Koch for MP5s/HK94s and can be seen for sale [http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/MP5-HK94-Horizontal-Vented-Wide-Forearm-p1842.htm here]. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 15:51, 3 December 2012 (EST)

==416 might not be a 416==

I think we're jumping into conclusions that this is an HK416 solely on the face that the name of the rifle is called the P416. The rails and the lower receiver doesn't look like the 416 and there's actually an extra thing on the lower receiver that I've only see on POF AR-15s. Stocks, pistol grip and muzzle device aside, they look the same. Even the curved trigger guard is exactly the same. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:05, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Here's one to compare to the one in the game.

[[Image:POFAR-15.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]
[[Image:FC3-HK416-1.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]

:Yeah, that does look like it. The "extra thing" is a [http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/gun-parts-and-accessories/trigger-hammer-pins/m-p15-22-non-rotate-trigger-hammer-pins-gen-2-black.html KNS Precision non-rotating trigger hammer pin] set, it's a little bit of metal on each side that joins replacement trigger and hammer pins together and prevents them from rotating to decrease wear. They're also right with the title, the select fire version seems to be referred to as Patriot Ordinance Factory 416, POF416 or P416 (the semi-auto version being P415). Sneaky! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:30, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Yeah, more like this one [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 08:27, 4 December 2012 (EST)

[[Image:POF416-15.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]

:Well, that's a P415 (semi-auto), the ones I've uploaded are select-fire 416s according to POF's website. I've swapped the black one for a version with their NP3 silver finish on the upper and lower, but these also have the benefit of having the same handguard as the one in the game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:21, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Landmine handles ==

I think a possible, but slightly unlikely reason for the carrying handles could be that the handles could be used to remove landmines from the ground without the risk of detonating them, if the landmines need to be removed for whatever reason. - [[User:1morey]] December 4, 2012 11:49 AM (EST)
:Naw, usually mines are designed to be as difficult to remove as possible, since the whole point of a minefield is it is neither easy to pass without clearing or easy to clear without spending a really long time doing so and tying up a lot of resources. Ottawa-compliant mines either self-destruct or become inert over time. About the only use I could think of for them on a mine that small would be using them to apply pressure to the mine and twist it to push it into the ground without risking slipping and hitting the detonator, but then the easiest way to do that is to leave inserting the fuze and / or removing the mine's arming pin until after you've placed it. Also, the in-game mines are proximity fuzed, which means there's no way lifting handles would be of any use to anyone. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 12:03, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Not an M40A5 ==

The M-700 in the game is a '''Remington 700 Export''', not an M40A5. The M40A5 has a flash suppressor, McMillan stock and does not have a front sight. The in-game rifle has a HS stock with cheek rest and a plain barrel. It lacks the rear iron sight, tho.
[[Image:700 XP.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Remington 700 Export with Leupold Mark 4 scope and Harris LM-S bipod - .308 Winchester]]
[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 15:28, 7 December 2012 (EST)

:I was considering changing it (and have done), but the front end of the stock is rather bigger and squarer than the HS and looks more like it belongs on a McMillan, and I didn't realise there was a standard 700 variant with a detachable magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:30, 8 December 2012 (EST)

== MP5 rear sight ==

As far as I see this the rear sight is heavily influenced by the rear sights that you can find on the early MP5 prototypes, late HK STG CETME and G3 prototypes/early issue. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 05:19, 8 December 2012 (EST)
:Actually, this had been bugging me because I knew I'd seen a sight almost exactly like it in another game, then I realised:
:[[Image:Homefront-QBZ-New.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:That seems the most likely source of it, someone on the dev team probably either played the game or saw an image and figured it'd look good on their MP5. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:39, 9 December 2012 (EST)
:: I think you are right but still, the sight looks extremely like the ones on the prototypes ( the triangular shape of the walls) just the position was shifted from the middle of the housing to the rear where today you find drum sights. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 18:44, 9 December 2012 (EST)

==The mercenary's weapon load out ==

Just to nitpick, I wonder why none of the obviously more highly trained mercenaries not wearing more stuff like optics on their guns but really they act and sound just like the AK wielding thugs on the other island. I wish they programed them to act more professionally. Sam was even carrying an AK at one point. I thought they all carry the 416s to distinguish between the other guys. Would also be nice if they were carrying other "western" weapons like the MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:20, 10 December 2012 (EST)

== AK rifle naming ==

Just don't seem the "AK-47" featured in the game is a true IzhMash AK-103 - for such it is lacking collapsible stock and plastic furniture. Ingame it is refered only as an AK-47, and I saw no reference to it being an AK-103. PS - The textures on a weapon's receiver in-game read the gun's model as "REPURPOSED AK 7,62 CAL.". So may be change the naming to "Custom AK-rifle" in article?
:Well yeah, it's not a standard AK-103, it's one with a fixed stock and wood furnishings. Since swapping out furnishings isn't exactly major surgery and there's plenty of aftermarket junk for the AK series even in real life, I don't really think that's reason enough to say it's not a 103 given its other features. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:54, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:As an addition, here's the photoshop I removed from the main page for being a photoshop:
:[[Image:Far Cry 3 AK-103.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-103 7.62x39mm with side-mounted RIS rail & [[AK-74]] style stock, handguard, and pistol grip as seen in ''[[Far Cry 3]]'']]
:It's custom, but it's still just a 103 with the furnishings changed. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:59, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:: Well, the point is that AK-100s series are distinguished with having black plastic foregrip and plastic collapsible stock. Expect for the mag the gun look exactly like second-series AK-74 rifles pre-1991. AK-103 is well a patented product of IzhMash OJSC, and simply re-bored AK-74 made by unknown manufacturer wouldn't count as an AK-103. The game developers also never named the rifle as an AK-103. So I still suggest changing the name to AK-74, adding the fact that the caliber of the gun was never explicitly stated - all assault rifles in Far Cry 3 use the same "assault rifle ammunition". --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] ([[User talk:RussianTrooper|talk]]) 16:32, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:::Well sure, but it has a 7.62mm AK magazine on the model, so that rather narrows it down. Furnishings aren't really good other than for saying it isn't a factory version, which we've already said. Mainly with game IDs you go with "if this were a real gun, what would you start with" and in this case that would be to take an AK-103 and replace the furnishings. And come on, we call that, um, ''thing'' in the game a Minimi, so it's hardly a push to say this is a 103. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 01:20, 17 December 2012 (EST)

The AK74M in BF3 doesn't have a hinged stock either, so should it count as such? Frankly, I think the rifle in this game is the 103 as the magazine is a curved 7.62x39 and the modern gas tube/barrel assembly. I think it is best as is, certainly not a 5.45 AK74.-AgentGumby
: The point with the AK-rifle from battlefied 3 was that it was explicitly called as an "AK-74M" in-game. This rifle called only an "AK-47" in-game. IMFDB has a tendency for example to point out differences between any short AR-15 clones and "true" Colt M4A1 rifles, so why not show the same approach to Russian weaponry also. Gas tube and muzzle brake/compensator are the same that were used on the second variation of serial AK-74 rifles that came w. wooden stock and furniture. While the rifle IS obviously an AK-74 clone, it isn't an AK-103 (that are themselves a clone of an AK-74 rifle). --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] ([[User talk:RussianTrooper|talk]]) 17:20, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:: Update. The point is that an AK-103 is itself generally a clone of AK-74, like, for example how both IzhMash AK-101 and Tantal wz.1991 are themselves the clones of AK-74. But you wouldn't name the Tantal rifle as an AK-101 just because both are 5,56mm clones of AK-74, would you? So to put it bluntly - an AK-103 is a 7.62mm clone of AK-74 made by IzhMash OJSC and outfitted with plastic foldable stock and black plastic furniture. The game's rifle is also a clone of an AK-74 rifle, possibly chambered for 7.62x39mm rounds but outfitted with wooden fixed stock and wooden furniture, made by unknown manufacturer (that could be Chinese NorinCo or local factory, for example). So I suggest renaming it to either AK-47 as it is called in-game or to AK-74 variant, that it is. --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] ([[User talk:RussianTrooper|talk]]) 09:01, 17 December 2012 (EST)
:::Like I said, the best way to describe this rifle is it's an AK-103 with the furnishings changed. The plastic furnishings might be distinctive of a ''factory'' AK-103, but they can be changed out relatively painlessly with aftermarket parts kits, so the configuration shown would not be too difficult to create with a -103 reciever and barrel. Saying it ''might'' be the result of reboring a -74 is kind of daft since that results in a weapon which is visually, um...An AK-103 with the furnishings changed. And visually is what's important in a game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:32, 17 December 2012 (EST)
::::Exactly, and besides, there are no well-known 7.62x39mm AK-74 copies that I can think of. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 10:13, 17 December 2012 (EST)

== Is the SVD a Norinco NDM? ==

The Russian SVD is externally identical to the Chinese NDM-86, so the model alone could be either of the two, but the in-game handbook states that all of the SVDs on Rook Island are all cheap Chinese knock-offs, which would make them NDM-86s. Should the SVD be changed to an NDM in the article? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 15:01, 28 December 2012 (EST)
:I'd thought of that since I saw that too, but given that, as you said, there'd be no real way to tell which one it was visually, it seemed a little pointless. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:04, 29 December 2012 (EST)

== Complete this Article !!!!!!!!!!! ==

Complete at the end of this article. How much can you put some screenshots? --[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] ([[User talk:Mateogala|talk]]) 16:06, 28 December 2012 (EST)

:What's so incomplete about this page? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:09, 28 December 2012 (EST)

Screenshot of. Baikal MP-133, FAMAS F1, Galil ACE 53, Patriot Ordinance Factory P416, Zastava M93 Black Arrow, PKM, STK Ultimax 100 Mark 3, GM-94, LPO-50 Flamethrower, M26 Hand Grenade, Where are the screenshots of these weapons? Description and menu screen is not enough. --[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] ([[User talk:Mateogala|talk]]) 05:57, 29 December 2012 (EST)

I beg to differ. Plenty of screencaps with amusing captions. This one's done - I dare you to try to improve it. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 00:23, 2 January 2013 (EST)

== GM-94 Reload ==

Was going to mention that the GM-94 reload is, like the Baikal MP-133, correct, in that the player loads a round and chambers it before loading the remainder into the tube (when loading from empty). But the page is locked. Does someone who has access want to add it? The text at the moment just kind of assumes this is the case, without actually confirming it.--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] ([[User talk:Leigh Burne|talk]]) 05:04, 29 January 2013 (EST)
:Yeah, that's my bad, I'd forgotten what he did with the first round on an empty reload because I don't tend to take the GM-94 in my loadout and my screencaps don't really help me see what's happening. In case you get to this before I have a chance to boot up and take a look: does he insert the first round and pump like the Baikal? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:47, 29 January 2013 (EST)
::No problem. And yeah, that's exactly what he does.--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] ([[User talk:Leigh Burne|talk]]) 07:59, 29 January 2013 (EST)

== SVD Barrel ==

Is it just me, or does the barrel on the SVD in the screenshot look like it's been cut back significantly? Looks like the front sight base is at most an inch ahead of the gas tube, which is shorter than an SVD or an SVDS. [[User:Raven|Raven]] ([[User talk:Raven|talk]]) 23:53, 19 February 2013 (EST)

== Just a few things to add ==

I'd add these myself, but since the page is locked, if someone could add it:

The SPAS-12's empty reload shows it being pumped despite being semi-auto which would require the charging handle to be pulled (the same mistake is present in the COD: Black Ops SPAS-12).

The Vector, despite being .45 ACP strangely has lower damage stats than the 9mm PP-19.

The GM-94 is shown being reloaded from the top via a flip-open hatch. Its actually loaded from the bottom, not unlike a shotgun.

The MKG is the only LMG in the game where the charging handle is pulled even if the magazine is full.

Despite the basic MP-133 having no attachments, it is shown with a suppressor attached to it in the Shop screen, which suggests at some point it was meant to have a suppressor, but was removed. [[User: Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk:Antediluvial|talk]]) 09:59, 9 March 2013 (EST)

== Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon ==

So just saw some gameplay of Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon, a standalone DLC expansion. As retro, cheesy and somewhat wacky as it is, it seems to feature alot of weapons from 80's films, like the Robocop Auto-9 is one gun I spotted in addition to the 1887. Alot of the game content seems to house homages to famous movies too, like Predator, Escape from New York/LA, Rambo, Terminator and many others. Does anyone think it deserves a page of it's own or to be put up here? As fictional as much of the weapons are they seem all related to real world weapons. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 07:27, 10 April 2013 (EDT)
: On the Arcade Poster I spotted something that looks like a HK CAWS--[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 18:26, 10 April 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Jagged Alliance: Back in Action

2013-03-01T12:15:15Z

DAN11: /* G11 ? */

Wow what the hell is this......I saw vids of this game on Youtube and it's a sequel IN NAME ONLY. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:45, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:It's not a Sequel, it's a 3D Remake ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:11, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

== The game has wrong gun name. ==

I don't know what's happen about the guns name right(trademark or something?) in video game industry, but every guns in JA:BIA had been messed-up with that. More than half of them have wrong or misspelling name.

== about the Colt "M16" ==

Could it be Diemaco C7 from the previous title?

:No it isn't, it has the [[Media:Lower_a1_full_fence.jpg|A1 style lower receiver and pistol grip]], the C7 uses [[Media:Lower_a2_full_fence.jpg|A2 parts]]. Also, remember to sign your posts by using the signature button. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:06, 25 October 2012 (EDT)

== G11 ? ==
I don't have the game but I just saw a video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBhFPYAzTLw ) (couln't figure out how to post a link clean, sorry) where they showed a G11 in the game and stated that they have played without any mods.
For the rifle itself: You can see that this depicts a G11K2 with camo paint and no scope/carry handle and even without the mount base, it also has just one mag inserted and it is mirrored or it has the charging handle on the wrong side. The range it a bit low compared to the ranges it was successfully tested but I think it is rather high if consider firing it without any sights. Rof is to high for original full auto and to low for original burst. The mag size is from pre K2 versions. And one could think of that this is lacking the selector switch but I think that is more because of the rather bad picture quality.
For the ammo: They show two different development stages of the the left one is a non telescopic round from the (I think , I haven't checked so far) late seventies you couldn't load them into a later G11 mag without damaging the round and couldn't chamber them also. The two on the right side are a version of the latest development stage of the G11 ammo but these are ex rounds.
[[File:Imfdb-jagged-BA-G11.jpg|200px|thumb|left|Camo G11K2 and ammo]] --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 17:19, 25 February 2013 (EST)
: Can someone who has the game confirm that this thing is actually in the official release? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 07:15, 1 March 2013 (EST)

Talk:Stealth

2013-03-01T12:10:34Z

DAN11: /* HK PDW */ new section

==Moved Discussions from the movie page==

:This movie was filmed mostly in Australia, and weapons were supplied by Aussie armorers. John Bowring (who also worked on ''[[The Matrix]]'') was lead armorer on ''Stealth''. I have no idea if the Legend series were ever exported for civilian/cinema use to Australia.
::Yes they were. Though us lowly Americans only got a few before the iron curtain of the BATF shut down imports, Poly Technologies still exported these awesome rifles to other countries who (at the time) could own semi automatic rifles (which were then legally converted for the movie industries) or full auto rifles if their government approved the paperwork. But since America was the single largest customer of military style arms for the civilian or Police market, all of the Chinese companies started making the cheapest crappy thumbhole post ban rifles (like the MAK-90s or the NHM-91s) and didn't bother trying to match the craftsmanship of their earlier guns. I guess they anticipated (correctly) that the window for sales was closing and they tried to make as much $$ as they could.

::Regarding gun ownership in Australia, after April 28th, 1996 when a psycho path killed a bunch of Australians in the Port Arthur massacre, all semiautomatic rifles & Shotguns were banned and melted down. I assumed (like in equally draconian Great Britain) that the movie armorers avoided the fate of the regular gun owners of their own country, and managed to keep their guns.

:::Come to think of it, the furniture and finish definitely resemble the PT Legend AKs I've seen with my own eyes. Of course, we have established already that my eyes can fool me!
::::PT did classic Chinese Pig Sticker Milled Receiver Type 56s as well but their classic Soviet Style AK was the bomb! I would bet that Australian Armories had these babies in stock since original AK47s sadly to say would not be minty new....
:::::Oh, I've heard great things about the Legends, though I prefer stamped AKs myself (mine is stamped). The thing is...what do you make of the milled-receiver AKs in ''[[Lord of War]]'' and ''[[Blood Diamond]]''? The one in ''[[Lord of War]]'' even has Cyrillic markings on the receiver near the selector, plus it looks brand-new. Custom-built, like the ones Mike Papac built for ''[[We Were Soldiers]]''?

[[Image:PolyTechLegendAK47.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Check out this beauty, a Poly Technologies Legend AK with original Russian Style front sights (the slant compensator is wrong but easily removed) - 7.62x39mm]]

== Looking for some IDs ==

We've got an AR15 with a weird stock that looks like it's standing in for an M16, and the pistol Sam Shepard pulls out of his washbag near the end.

[[Image:Stealth-UnknownAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Click this. The soldier to the right has an unknown AR slung over his shoulder.]]
[[Image:Stealth-UnknownPistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cummings draws a pistol from his washbag.]]
[[Image:Stealth-UnknownPistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blurrier, but shows most of Cummings' pistol.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:36, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

:It looks like a P99 or a SW99. It looks like the mag release is on the trigger guard. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 01:08, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, I thought P99 as well. From the next frame, it looks like it doesn't have front cocking serrations:

[[Image:Stealth-UnknownPistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Which I guess shows it's not an SW99. Base of the trigger guard looks parallel to the barrel, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:25, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

:As an addition, that scene always cracked me up. "This is so you never confuse the difference between politicians and warriors." What, warriors shoot themselves dead in restrooms? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

== More IDs ==

Couple of thugs with pistols here, and I'm not great with those. Though I did manage to spot that the AUGs are actually Austeyrs :D

First:

[[Image:Stealth-Thug1Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The pistol of the leader of the Black Ops thugs in the hangar.]]
[[Image:Stealth-Thug1Pistol2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The thug places his pistol on the ground.]]

*Not sure. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:31, 11 July 2011 (CDT)
::Hmm, black with pearl grips, almost looks like 1911, but it seems double stacked. That's a pretty unique ejection port and rear sight, but I can't place it to anything.

Second:

[[Image:Stealth-Thug2Pistol1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another thug, soon to be toasty, sets down his pistol.]]
[[Image:Stealth-Thug2Pistol2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Gannon's G36 fires a magic bullet that causes the thug to be yanked violently backwards on a wire attached to his belt :D]]
[[Image:Stealth-Thug2Pistol3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|It seems the wire caused the stuntman to tense his trigger finger, since the slide is suddenly locked open here.]]

*Too blurry, maybe a 92FS. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:31, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

And yes, these aren't the final captions. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:57, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

== HK PDW ==

I am curious on how they got that thing, does someone know? Or is this actually just a mock up? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 07:10, 1 March 2013 (EST)

Talk:Jagged Alliance: Back in Action

2013-02-25T22:19:04Z

DAN11: Found indication about a G11 in JA:BA

File:Imfdb-jagged-BA-G11.jpg

2013-02-25T21:16:10Z

DAN11:

G11 in [[Jagged Alliance: Back in Action]]

File:Imfdb-jagged-BA-G11.jpg

2013-02-25T21:15:29Z

DAN11: G11 in [Jagged Alliance: Back in Action]

G11 in [Jagged Alliance: Back in Action]

Talk:From Russia with Love

2013-02-13T20:36:06Z

DAN11: /* Is the Sten really a Sten? */

Why the hell are so many .25's used? When you shoot someone you want to kill or injure them, not midly annoy them-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:03, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

:A .25 caliber bullet is not a .44 magnum, but its still a piece of metal flying at a huge speed at someone. If you'd gotten shot with a .25, im sure that you'd change your tone. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 02:19, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

there small and considerable perfect for spys. also back them I think most of the common caliber were the small ones

Any idea on the gun Bond and Kerim take off of Benz on the train?

As many times as I've watched this movie since it came out in 1963,
Benz's gun has always ''seemed'' to be a Colt Detective Special.

Regards,

Tecolote

The gun Krilenco uses during the gypsy camp shootout looks like a Smith & Wesson Model 10, and I also saw a small breaktop revolver that could be a Webley Mk IV Pocket model. --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 20:21, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Every time I see that shootout, I see so many guns that arn't on the page --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 22:36, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

When Ali Bey fired his ppk at the gun fight, even after the gun was empty, it still made the sound. Continuity Error?

It's a editorial decision. There's a lot of films where the gun is seen to be either jammed or empty, but the actor continues to be seen firing. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 23:31, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

The Thompson isn't an M1928 as it doesn't have the compensator. --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] 11:19 5 May 2012 (GMT)

== Is the Sten really a Sten? ==
For me it looks more like a Schmeisser MP or a Lanchester ? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 14:01, 13 February 2013 (EST)
:It looks like it might have a bayonet lug like the Lanchester. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:15, 13 February 2013 (EST)
:: I think it is a Lanchester, sorry for crappy iPhone pic.
:: [[File:FromRusssiawithloveSPECTRE-LOW.jpg|200px|thumb|left|]] --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 15:15, 13 February 2013 (EST)

Talk:From Russia with Love

2013-02-13T20:15:32Z

DAN11: /* Is the Sten really a Sten? */

Why the hell are so many .25's used? When you shoot someone you want to kill or injure them, not midly annoy them-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:03, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

:A .25 caliber bullet is not a .44 magnum, but its still a piece of metal flying at a huge speed at someone. If you'd gotten shot with a .25, im sure that you'd change your tone. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 02:19, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

there small and considerable perfect for spys. also back them I think most of the common caliber were the small ones

Any idea on the gun Bond and Kerim take off of Benz on the train?

As many times as I've watched this movie since it came out in 1963,
Benz's gun has always ''seemed'' to be a Colt Detective Special.

Regards,

Tecolote

The gun Krilenco uses during the gypsy camp shootout looks like a Smith & Wesson Model 10, and I also saw a small breaktop revolver that could be a Webley Mk IV Pocket model. --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 20:21, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Every time I see that shootout, I see so many guns that arn't on the page --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 22:36, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

When Ali Bey fired his ppk at the gun fight, even after the gun was empty, it still made the sound. Continuity Error?

It's a editorial decision. There's a lot of films where the gun is seen to be either jammed or empty, but the actor continues to be seen firing. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 23:31, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

The Thompson isn't an M1928 as it doesn't have the compensator. --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] 11:19 5 May 2012 (GMT)

== Is the Sten really a Sten? ==
For me it looks more like a Schmeisser MP or a Lanchester ? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 14:01, 13 February 2013 (EST)
:It looks like it might have a bayonet lug like the Lanchester. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:15, 13 February 2013 (EST)
:: I think it is a Lanchester, sorry for crappy iPhone pic.
:: [[File:FromRusssiawithloveSPECTRE-LOW.jpg|200px|thumb|left|alt]] --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 15:15, 13 February 2013 (EST)

File:FromRusssiawithloveSPECTRE-LOW.jpg

2013-02-13T20:09:20Z

DAN11: From Russia with Love

[[From Russia with Love]]

Talk:From Russia with Love

2013-02-13T19:01:30Z

DAN11:

Talk:Lord of War

2013-02-13T17:19:36Z

DAN11: /* airsoft gun? */

I just saw this movie again yesterday, there was no Steyr AUG in his container, it was a golden Hungarian AMD-65. - [[User:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]

:Actually, it wasn't a gold AMD-65, it was a nickel-plated Chinese Type-56 with ivory furniture and a Romanian-style folding grip. It's the same gun used in ''Belly''. I had a picture of the gun on my ''Belly'' page when it still existed (before the server crash), but the picture of that gun is here: http://www.weaponspecialists.com/insiteTemplate.php?includeWhat=propView&id=160&category=&primaryCategory=ter&refID=20&cf=bpic

Orca, it is actually a MP5A4, i can see by the trigger group. The trigger groups of the MP5A2 and the MP5A4 are different. - [[User:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]

==AKS74U==
I don't think it's a 74u. the barrel seems too long and it doesn't have a triangular side folding stock (though that's not exactly definite). At the same time, the front sight and the flash hider look right. Plus, not to mention it's gold plated and the furniture looks strange to me. I think it looks more like an AKMS. Ah well, anybody see any of these things or am I just tired?

:It's probably a custom weapon that was assembled just for the film by the armorers. It is obviously not a 74U because that is a 7.62x39mm magazine (older style, before the ribbed versions), it has an East German-style side-folding stock, and a short barrel (AKMSU-style). You have to keep in mind that AKs can't all be classified so neatly (many countries have built their own versions, some of which are very different from the original Russian-made guns), which is one of the problems with this site. The best description I can give would be "custom-built Kalashnikov".

==Poster Change==
Is this poster better? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

[[Image:LOWCover.jpg]]

:Eh, not sure. I happen to prefer the older one just because it's a more creative design. But that's just me. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
::I just don't like it because it's a white poster, and the site's white background blend wierd and it looks ugly. But that's just ''me''. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:::The fact that the image has a border around it cancels that out in my opinion. I think the first poster is better, the above poster is so very generic and not nearly as interesting. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 05:21, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
::::I agree with MT, the other one is more creative and way cooler. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:49, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

== Micro-Uzi ==

On the section about the Micro-Uzi, it says that it's unrealistic since it was first introduced in 1983. As far as I know, it was actually introduced in 1982, as it says on wikipedia and most sources I can find. Also many films as far back as 1985 show their useage ([[Invasion USA]] and [[Commando]]), so I doubt they were only known about for a couple of years before being so popular in civilian culture as to be placed in films.
Infact I even doubt the 1982 introduction date, as Israel and weapon secrecy seem to go hand-in-hand as well.
-[[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]]

:The civilian version of the Micro Uzi (which is what you see in most American movies, including this one) was introduced to the American market in 1983. So, it would not have been around in 1982. As far as their appearances in mid-80s movies, that is actually common in Hollywood. The Desert Eagle was introduced in 1984 and shown immediately afterwards in ''[[Year of the Dragon]]'' and ''[[Commando]]'', both of which came out in 1985. A more extreme example that I documented was ''[[RoboCop 2]]'', which features the [[SIG-Sauer P228]] even though the P228 was introduced in 1990 (the same year that the movie came out). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::That explains it then - sorry about the edit then, feel free to revert it back. Thanks for the explanation too man - but just wondering whats the difference with the civilian version of the micro-uzi? Do you mean the semi-auto uzi pistol? Also I am getting loads of conflicting sources - when was the Micro-Uzi first made, I got another source from the manufacturers that suggest it started in the 1990's as well! Thanks. -[[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]]

:::Changed back the edit I done to how it was like before, saying that it is indeed unrealistic in 1982. :) -[[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]]

::::Maybe you should consider that Yuri's contact at the synagogue (where he obtained the guns) may not be much of a civilian at all and therefore have access to military equipment directly from Israel.

== Unknow AR-15 ==
:I'd say CQBR, but thats Navy SEAL only, but on the [[Bourne Identity]] page, the M16s that the Marines are using are actually Bushmasters. I'll look up more and get back to you. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::The receiver is the wrong style for CQBR, and not all ARs with 10" barrels match that type, anyway. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
:::Like i said: CQBRs are only for SEALs. Its gotta be a custom piece. No forward assist or shell deflector and a 10 inch barrel. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::::It could be custom, i look in the net several images of SBR AR-15. -[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]]

The 1911 entry looks more like a Hi-Power to me.

== typo ==

"This particular Chinese Type 56 has the ribbed top cover of an Russian (or licensed third party) AKM - the Chinese AKs have smooth top covers."

"...of an Russian..."

:Thanks for the correction, but...it's perfectly fine if you make it yourself. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:52, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

==Special Edition DVD errors==
Someone want to go through the second disc of the Special Edition DVD and make a list of all the factual errors in the history/specs for the weapons? Saw it at a friends house - it lists the M16 as a belt-fed 7.62mm rifle with an effective range of 1100 meters...

-Seriously? Now I gotta see this feature [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:39, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

== Busted AR-15? ==

The Closeup of the AR-15 in the weapons pile looks like its missing its bolt catch and its upper reciever looks bulged, Am I right?
:I do believe you might be correct. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:15, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

== Customized Saiga ==

It says that the trigger was moved forward but this is normal for converting a Saiga to a pistol grip, did he somehow move it farther or is it just saying one of the results of converting a Saiga?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:22, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Moving guns vs buying new ones. ==

In the movie, when Yuri is selling the guns in Lebanon, he says that it is cheaper for the U.S. government to buy new ones then ship the ones used back. Is this true? Seems wasteful to me. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:43, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
:I was wondering the same thing when I saw it. This can't possibly be true, can it? The History Channel did a program on Anniston Army Depot, and while most of the work they do there is on vehicles, they also refurbish small arms, and destroy whatever is too worn out to refurbish. And the thought of rebels, freedom fighters, or death squads armed with former American weapons on the nightly news would be much to embarrassing to the government. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:20, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

::I wouldn't say the U.S. ''generally'' doesn't take its munitions (especially costly, high-tech systems that the U.S. doesn't want its enemies to take apart and investigate), but it is true that sometimes, given the time constraints and costs, they aren't able to bring everything back. There are hundreds of thousands of U.S. military-issue small arms floating around Southeast Asia due to the Vietnam War, many of which have been used by various insurgencies, drug trafficking groups, and pirates in the region. Also, during the 1970s and 1980s, the Vietnamese government had a working arrangement with Cuba where they would ship U.S. military weapons to South America so that leftist guerrillas (including FARC) could use them, and the communist governments could deny responsibility. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:25, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
:::But Vietnam was an exception though. We left not only small arms, but tanks and aircraft, for South Vietnam, and then all that got picked up by the communists. But the list of US allies who were overrun is a very short one. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:21, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I've heard from some now ex-servicemen that after exercises in Northern Australian, the US troops involved were throwing weapons over the side as they were boarding their ships.

== Unidentified Handgun ==

Looks like a Beretta 92 Non Gun. I think it looks like a Browning BDM --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 20:23, 28 January 2011 (UTC).

[[Image:LOW1911-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:I'm pretty certain it's a non-gun Beretta. Compare the image below to the weapon in the screenshot.

[[Image:Ng pistol beretta92 blk.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Non-gun Beretta 92FS]]

Notice the position of the muzzle low on the front of the slide and the stepped trigger guard, both of which match that in the screenshot. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:09, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, I stand corrected --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:51, 29 January 2011 (UTC).

== airsoft gun? ==

does anyone else notice the airsoft gun in the pile of m16a2's

:No, but now that I take a closer look, I do see some G3s and AKs mixed in among the AR-15s/M16s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:44, 9 April 2011 (CDT)

Most of the weapons in the pile are half moulded vacum formed dummies, they were no airsofts used for this scene, in fact the only airsofts were the MP5's and the MP5K. Closer to camera wrer hard rubber moulds with the occasional real weapon for extreme close ups.

The handgun used in the resturant was a Star 9mm model B, the same one used in Flight of the Phoenix, it is fully practical and is made to look like a Colt 1911.

if you look down in the bottom right corner there is a see through gun
:I don't know if this is already solved ( I guess it is) but I have to say I never saw there a see-through just dusty ARs as it would be in real life when you would stash them away this way. -[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:19, 13 February 2013 (EST)

== AR-15 ==
But on the subject of AR-15s, shouldn't the AR-15A2 in the last screencap be under its own entry rather than lumped into the M16A2 entry? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:44, 9 April 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Heckler & Koch MP5

2013-01-21T23:19:54Z

DAN11: /* .45 ACP */

==Screen Used MP5 variants==
[[Image:EODMP5A3rubberprop.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with mounted [[M203 grenade launcher]] 40mm as used by [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]'s character Jericho Cane in the film ''[[End of Days]]''.]]
[[Image:P00634.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used prop Heckler & Koch MP5A3 - 9x19mm. This non-firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The gun is constructed of rubber and was used during parts of the barge sequence where the live firing gun was unecessary. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00634&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:P00646.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used prop Heckler & Koch SP89 - 9x19mm. This non-firing plastic prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The replica SP89 was used as a stand in for the virtually identical live firing MP5K used earlier in the sequence and was used onscreen when Winter throws the gun away. The tip was slightly damaged during the throw and is in otherwise good condition. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00646&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]

==Other Variants of the MP5==

[[Image:H&K 94.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch 94 carbine with front pistol grip & barrel jacket]]
[[Image:MP5KA42.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5KA4 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K_MP54.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP54 earliest prototype of the H&K MP5 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:HKMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with Surefire Weaponlight and "SD"-style stock]]
[[Image:DayMP5K.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daisy Airsoft Model 14 Heckler & Koch MP5K - 9x19mm. One of the first ASG.]]
[[Image:HK_MP5SD.png|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 with a integrated suppressor - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5K-UMP.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW fitted with a [[UMP]]-style stock - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5SD3-with2-round-burst.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 with additional 2-round burst fire mode. (Note that this weapon '''is not''' an MP5SD6, the SD6 '''must''' feature the 3-round burst option. This trigger group is officially called "2-round burst" by H&K.)]]
[[Image:KACMP5RSRAIL.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5F with Knight's Armament Company rail system - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:JG MP5 RAS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''Airsoft''' MP5-RAS by Jing Gong - 6mm BB]]
[[Image:MP5KModified.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K with SEF trigger group and forward handguard removed - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K-MP5Ksuitcase.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K in trademark Heckler & Koch suitcase - 9x19mm]]
[[File:SerenityMP5K.jpg |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K used in ''[[Serenity]]'' - version with SEF Plastic Trigger Pack and West German 'Waffle pattern' stick magazine - 9x19mm. The LED sight, unfortunately, could not be found to mount on the weapon for the photograph.]]
[[Image:MP5SFA3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SFA3 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5SD1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD1 with 15-round magazine - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5KAC.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch MP5A5 with PDW stock, Bushnell Holosight, RIS foregrip, and KAC railed forend - 9x19mm]]
[[File:MP5 B&T visor stock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with Brugger & Thomet visor helmet stock, M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flash hider, and railed handguard - 9x19mm]]
[[File:MP5 UMP stock.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5A3 with UMP stock, RIS foregrip, KAC railed forend, M68 Aimpoint red dot sight, and weaponlight - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Mp5 reverse stretch.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5K "Reverse Stretch" - 9x19mm. This is a custom weapon created by combining an MP5K front end with a full-size MP5 receiver This results in an MP5K capable of accepting a standard MP5 stock, in this case an MP5F retractable stock.]]

==Early MP5 gone==

As you can tell, I deleted the section on early MP5s, for two reasons:

(1.) It's unlikely early MP5s appear in movies or TV, simply because those models are quite rare and basically not available outside of Germany. If you go to HKPRO's MP5 page, you can see what the earliest MP5s looked like.
(2.) The pictures were not early MP5s (one was an MP5A2 taken by MPM, which has since been moved to the MP5A2 section, the other was an A3 with a straight mag and older convex-style buttplate).

If anyone wants to restore it, please just copy and paste the code from an earlier revision; I made some other revisions that are important to keep. Don't undo all of my recent edits. Thanks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:10, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
: I've never seen a movie with the original HK54s, so I agree. If someone did want to put it on though, they have it on World Guns. -GM
:: I restored it, for three reasons: 1. I strongly disagree with the conclusion that a weapon has to be common to deserve inclusion. If that was a valid criterion a considerable number of the gun articles/sections on this site never would've been created. 2. The MP-54 is in [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl]], so what if it's a video game, this site covers those too. 3. People editing ''that'' article take one look at "MP-54" and assume it's a typo, because even if they do their research by looking at ''this'' article, they find no such weapon and so conclude that it doesn't exist. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 13:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I checked your page for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. That doesn't look to me like an MP-54; it looks more like a regular MP5A3 with an open front sight. Such sights do exist as after-market accessories for the MP5. However, seeing as it's a game, it could also just be an artistic decision made by the gun modeler. But it's definitely not supposed to be an MP-54; notice it has the wrong rear sight and hand guards for the -54. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

The page for [[Biggles: Adventures in Time]] (1986) mentions "old spec MP5's with staight magazines"; whether they're actual vintage early MP5s, I know not. British television and film productions might well use these guns. I worry about the deletion of the early section; it's going to clumsy to put it back when someone spots an early MP5, and someone ''will'' spot an early MP5 at some point. One will appear in the background of ''[[The Professionals]]'' or ''[[Who Dares Wins]]''; and although it may be true that they are "quite rare and basically not available outside of Germany", this database doesn't exclude German television programmes. I understand that German television has historically not been too keen on guns, but there must have been German cop dramas and television films and indeed theatrical films in the 1970s. -[[User:Ashley Pomeroy|Ashley Pomeroy]] 18:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

==Why not put the 'fake' MP5s on the HK94 section?==
It technically runs counter to common practice on IMFDB by putting the gun in the section of the weapon it's 'impersonating' rather than the real section. Case in point. We put fake M16A2s (that are A1s with A2 handguards) in the M16A1 section ... NOT the M16A2 section, even though that is the gun it is impersonating. Why don't we put the appearances of the C&C HK94s in the HK94 section? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

:Hmmm, I didn't notice that this wasn't being done. But yes, I agree, all C&C HK94s impersonating MP5s should go in the HK94 section. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
:Pay no attention to what I just edited out, I was being stupid.-protoAuthor

== Heckler & Koch MP5K's with the foregrips removed ==

What is the point of MP5K's with the fore grips removed appearing in movies? you don't have a grip, and could burn you hand if you have been shooting
:What? Speak english for me please.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Better?
:Yes. On topic, they are used as if they are machine pistols. Look at the Third Matrix movie page on this site. They are used in that movie. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ on the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

"Used as if they are machine pistols"? That would still apply even if the MP5Ks had foregrips but were being dual-wielded like in those scenes. In fact, MP5Ks (as opposed to MP5K-PDWs) ''are'' machine pistols, just relatively bulky ones (compared to models like the Glock 18) due to their lack of a buttstock (like the M93 Raffica). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:31, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

== SP-10 / MP-10 is also the PXP-10 ==

Coharie Arms is the current producer of the SP-10 / MP-10 and its model is now designated as the PXP-10 (although the MP-10 designation is still in effect for fully automatic builds). Their are some slight changes since the SP-10 production. Specifically, the texturing was altered and mounting screws were added on the lower foregrip. Additionally, the tint of the plastic may have changed as well. Coharie has recently announced that the tooling is up for sale.

== U.S. Police MP5 stocks ==

What is the most common stock type used by U.S. Police departments; the A2 type or the A3 type?

That is almost impossible to tell. I've seen both in my local, county and State police SWAT teams so both are used in all police department. The better question would be are there any US police department that uses the MP5K? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:According to the picture about half way down the page, the Northeast Metro Law Enforcement Council Special Operations Unit in Massachusetts does. [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70:hk-in-action-2-a-collection-of-actual-working-teams&catid=18:hk-in-action-series&Itemid=5] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:39, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

==MP5F Redundancy?==

Do we really need a section for the MP5F? It seems highly unlikely that this model would be used in films or television, and visually distinguishing it from an MP5A3 or MP5A5 would be practically impossible. The only external indicator would be the stock, and that can be interchanged with other MP5 variants. The section claims that this model is internally modified to handle high-pressure ammo, which would be irrelevant for a blank-adapted weapon seen on-screen. If you ask me, having a section for the MP5F would be like having a section for the US military's M9 Beretta on the Beretta 92 page. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 19:33, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:No contest, nuke it. From what I understand unless the gun image came directly from a movie armorer, if the weapon has not appeared in anything than it has no right to be on IMFDB. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:Just to add, there are actually some other exterior differences other than the stock. If by some miracle you can see the receiver markings on the spine in a movie, they will simply read HK MP5 rather than HK MP5-N. More realistically, you can also tell the difference by the front sling loop. On the original MP5s there is only a sling eye on the left hand side, mounted as the end of a pin. On the MP5F however, there is a sling loop on either side of the barrel, lower than the single loop on the standard MP5s. The original sling loop pin is replaced with a regular pin, and a "saddle" type mount for the sling loops is mounted under the barrel, placing the sling loops level with the centre of the barrel rather than above it as in the original MP5s. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:32, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

==MP5/10==

Could the MP5/10 be fitted with an MP5A3-style telescoping stock? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 00:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:: I believe so, I remember seeing MP5/10s with collapsible stocks. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Only the really cool ones :) plus if you google it, the very first picture of one has a telescoping stock. God bless Jeff Cooper and his 10mm. --[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

== MP5K without sights ==

In a couple of shows (only one I can think of right now is [[Ultimate Force]]) a version of the MP5K can be seen that appears to have no sights aside from a vestigial post at the front, and possibly a simple notch at the back. Anyone know if this was an actual version that was made a or a modification? As a side note, this version was actually used in real life by the British SAS, and can be seen in several "publicity" (for lack of a better term) photos taken during a training exercise.

Also, does anyone know if the single fire MP5 versions (Not chopped HK94s, but the things with paddle magazine releases and 3-lug muzzles, and with regular SEF or Navy trigger groups just missing the FA position) were ever available to the public as I think I have spotted a couple in something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:37, 13 April 2011 (CDT)

Bloody typical, immediately after I ask the question I find out that it an MP5KA1 (or MP5KA5 with 3 round burst added), and has low profile fixed pistol type sight for use when worn under clothing to prevent snagging. Does this deserve its own entry on the main page, as the visual differances between the K and KA1 are more than the difference between a MP5A2 and MP5A4. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:03, 13 April 2011 (CDT)
[[File:MP5KA1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KA1]]
[[File:MP5KA5.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KA5 fitted with the bulky old aiming point projector.]]

:Yes, the MP5KA1 should get its own section, although I'm not sure it's all that common (''[[Ultimate Force]]'' is so far the only media appearance of this variant that I've seen).

:And to answer your other question: In the U.S., the MP5SF (the semi-only versions) would not be legal for public ownership. The MP5SF is just a standard mil-spec/LE MP5 that has had its lower receiver swapped out for the SF trigger group; any of the burst/auto-fire lowers can be installed quickly, which means that legally, it is still a machine gun. And if it has a short barrel with the attachment lugs, it would also be an SBR (Short-Barreled Rifle). The reason that the HK94 and other MP5 semi-auto clones don't have the paddle mag releases is because the semi-auto lower receiver is permanently attached to the upper so that a select-fire lower can never be installed. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 10:04, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

== MP5KN ==

I think, the gun labeled as "MP5KN" in the MP5K section is just an MP5K fitted with a Navy trigger pack. The real KN has an extended barrel, like the PDW. Anyone agree with this? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:53, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
:I agree, have been meaning to change it for a while but keep forgetting about it. Below is an actual MP5KN (well not exactly as the only ones in existence were issued to the US Navy, but this one is a Navy lower MP5K that someone has fitted with a rare genuine MP5KN barrel so is as close as you will ever get). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:47, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:MP5K-N.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KN - 9x19mm]]

::Rather curious why Heckler & Koch haven't made MP5K with threaded barrel in the first place... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:25, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

== Suitcase gun ==

I was looking at the pictures of the MP5's at the top of this page, and the one of the MP5K in the specially-made suitcase got me wondering-wouldn't that be very hard to aim properly? No iron sights, firing from the shin...and who uses it anyway? CIA, MI6, FSD (I think that's the Russian security service). And say you wanted to buy one, where would you buy it? I doubt from a normal H&K weapons shop. And how much would it even cost, assuming it hasn't been banned in loads of places? Why has this even been made? I mean, I am very interested in guns-that-don't-look-like-guns. I just wonder, have there been suitcase guns before this? If so, did anyone ever actually use them, and can legally talk about it? Can anyone else tell me about any guns out there that are disguised as something else? Always interested...Alasdair.
:Supposedly HK offered it to private security firms for use by bodyguards; given you can't reload it without opening the case anyway, I assume it's only designed for use against someone who jumps your VIP at extremely close range where just pointing the case and shooting is all you're going to need. No idea if anyone ever seriously used one, mind. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:50, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
::It was used by the British SAS for close protection (they had it, don't know if they actually used it seriously though). The taught way to aim it was to brace the end of the case (the opposite end to the barrel obviously) horizontally across your chest. You can see pics of it being used [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=91:mp5k-series&catid=9:the-submachine-guns&Itemid=5 here], along with pictures of the more practical (IMHO) MP5K bag, which allows you to access the selector, as well as being more naturally "pointable". These did get around a bit, [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/Todays%20Pix/e160ef77.jpg 22 MP5Ks in the briefcase] were found by US soldiers as part of an arms cache in Baghdad in 2003. The same arms cache also had a [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/Todays%20Pix/09028da8.jpg gold plated MP5SD6]. If you google it you can find a few places selling them, with the prices being up to $4,000 for the case not including the gun, with about $2,500 apparently being about the average they go for these days.--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:43, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
Ah, O.K. Thanks. I once heard something about camera guns, though. Anyone know anything about them? Alasdair.
:Guns with cameras or guns in cameras? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:14, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

== MP5 side folding stock? ==

Where do MP5s with the side folding UMP style stock go, MP5A3 section? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:49, 11 May 2012 (CDT)
[[File:MP5 UMP stock.jpg|thumb|450px|none|MP5 with side folding UMP stock, RIS forend, Aimpoint red dot sight, flashlight and vertical grip - 9x19mm]]
:Depends on the trigger group. This one has the SEF, which tells that used to be either an A2 or A3. However, I'm not sure that it would into either category with the UMP stock. I would probably place it in the MP5A3 due to it being more similar to the extending stock than the solid.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:14, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

== MP5F? ==

Firstly the MP5F is such a minor variant of the MP5A5 that I don't think it deserves its own section, and secondly that isn't a picture of an MP5F. The only external differences (the major differences are internal to allow it to fire particularly powerful ammunition) are the double sided front sling loop and the redesigned stock, neither of which are present on this gun. Or am I missing something and the MP5F refers to a different model with the PDW stock? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:48, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

While I cant really tell the difference between the MP5F and MP5A3 here is a [http://www.tscmachine.com/images/HK-MP5Flarge2.jpg picture] of it. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 18:54, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

== HK SMG series ==

The SMG series weapons are totally different to the MP5 series, the only thing they have in commen is that the SMG series '''can''' use regular MP5 mags --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:15, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:Because if you read about the development of the H&K SMG 1 & 2 they are a development from the HK54A1 and that is an atempt to create a product improved MP5. In essence the SMG 1 is an evolutionary firearm between the MP5 series and the UMP series of firearms. We put it in with the MP5 for convenience sake.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 13:21, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:: Yes I have read about it... still different technology at all --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:35, 16 December 2012 (EST)

== Couple Questions about full-auto conversion ==

A. On a firearm that has been converted from semi-automatic to full-auto, does the safety still work?

B. When converting a semi-auto to full-auto, can you control the rate of fire, or is that predetermined by other factors?

- [[User: 2wingo]]

:A. Yes, the safety should still work after a FA conversion.
B. you can somewhat control the rate of fire based on the weight of the bolt, the tensile weight of the recoil springs and what ammo you use.
Both of those statements are based around a theoretical FA conversion. Such conversions are restricted to someone with a SOT license.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 18:33, 25 December 2012 (EST)

== .45 ACP ==
Why wasn't a version of the MP5 firing this round ever made? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:44, 31 December 2012 (EST)
:Not enough demand for mass production. Bill Flemming made the first conversions and the now Defunct Special weapons company made both HK94 and SP89 clones in .45ACP. Still they are both rare as hens teeth.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 19:52, 31 December 2012 (EST)

There is a .45 MP5. It's called the UMP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:53, 21 January 2013 (EST)
:The UMP is not roller locked and I think it uses a different trigger pack design( or at least a modified) + it has a completely different body design and material therefore the UMP is a totally different concept even when it evolved from the PIP (same for the HK SMG series). -[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 18:19, 21 January 2013 (EST)

Heckler & Koch

2012-12-17T21:09:45Z

DAN11: /* Rifles */ Corrected G11 dates and added 2 variants

[[image:H&K_Logo.jpg|thumb|right|275px|Heckler & Koch]]
__TOC__ 
=About=
Heckler & Koch was founded by Edmund Heckler, Theodor Koch, and Alex Seidel in 1949. It emerged out of what was leftover from the [[Mauser]] company. It was not until 1956 that HK started to manufacture firearms. Prior to that they manufactured tools, sewing machines, gauges and precision parts. HK has a history of innovation such as incorporating polymers in weapon designing and the use of integral rails on handguns. They also developed modern polygonal rifling, noted for its high accuracy, increased muzzle velocity and barrel life.

=Specifications=
'''Founded: ''' 1949

'''Country: ''' Germany

'''Products: ''' Pistols, Submachine Guns, Machine Guns, Shotguns, Rifles, Grenade Launchers

=Guns=
==Pistols==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch HK4]]||.22LR .25 ACP .32 ACP .380 ACP||8 8 8 7||1968-1984|| ||[[image:HK4.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch HK45]]||.45 ACP||10||2005-Present||[[HK45C]] HK45T HK45CT||[[image:HH45.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch Mark 23]]||.45 ACP||12||1996-Present|| Mark 23 Mod 0||[[File:Mk23.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P11]]||7.62 mm x 36 (underwater bullets)||5||1976-1977|| ||[[File:Hk_p11-1.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P2000]]||9x19mm .40 S&W .357 SIG||10, 13 9, 10, 12 9, 10, 12||2001-Present||[[Heckler & Koch P2000SK]]||[[File:P2000_9.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P2A1]]||26.5 mm or 25 mm flares||1||????-????|| ||[[image:H%26K_P2A1.JPG|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P30]]||9×19mm .40 S&W||15 13||2006-Present||[[Heckler & Koch P30L]]||[[File:HK-P30.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P7 pistol series|Heckler & Koch P7]]||.22 LR 9x19mm .32 ACP .380 ACP .40 S&W||8 8, 13 8 8 10||1979–2008||[[Heckler & Koch P7M8]] [[H&K P7M13]]||[[File:HKP7M13Pistol.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P9S]]||9x19mm .45 ACP 7.65x22mm||9 7 ?||1969-1978|| ||[[File:Hk-p9s-1.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch UCP]]||4.6x30mm||20||Never Manufactured|| ||[[File:Hk_ucp_3.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch USP]]||9x19mm .357 SIG (compact only) .40 S&W .45 ACP||15 12 13 12||1993-Present||[[Heckler & Koch P8]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Compact ]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Match]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Elite]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Tactical]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Expert]]||[[File:USP9mm.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch VP70]]||9x19mm Parabellum 9x21mm IMI|| 18 18 ||1970-1989||VP70Z VP70M ||[[File:VP70.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Submachine Guns==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch MP5]]||9x19mm Parabellum 10mm Auto .40 S&W||15, 30, 32, 40, 100 30 30||1966-Present||[[Heckler & Koch MP5A2]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5A4]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5A5]] [[Heckler & Koch HK94]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW]] [[Heckler & Koch SP89]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5/10 and MP5/40]] [[Heckler & Koch SMG]]||[[image:MP5.jpg|200px|]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch MP7]]||4.6x30mm||20, 40||2001-Present|| HK PDW (prototype)||[[File:H%26K_MP71A1.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch UMP]]||.45 ACP .40 S&W 9x19mm Parabellum||25 30 30||1999-Present||[[Heckler & Koch USC]]||[[File:UMP_45.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Machine Guns==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch HK series machine guns|Heckler & Koch HK21]]|| 7.62x51mm NATO 5.56x45mm NATO .50 BMG||20, 50, Belt||1961-????||[[Heckler & Koch HK11]] [[Heckler & Koch HK23]] [[Heckler & Koch GR9S]]||[[File:HK21wBlackFurniture.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch MG4]]||5.56×45mm NATO|| Belt ||2001-Present||[[Heckler & Koch MG4KE]]||[[File:H%26KMG4.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Shotguns==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch FABARM FP6]]||12 Gauge|| 5 ||1998-Present||[[File:Fabarm_Sdass_tactical_-1-.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch CAWS]]||12 Gauge|| 10 ||CAWS project during 1980s, never produced||[[File:Hkcaws.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Benelli M Series Super 90 Shotguns#Heckler & Koch Model 512 Auto Shotgun|Heckler & Koch Model 512]]||12 Gauge|| ? ||??-??||[[File:HK512AutoShotgun.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Rifles==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch G11]]||4.73x33mm caseless||45, 50||1968 - 1991 Prototypes Only||G11K1 G11K2||[[File:HK_G11_caseless_Rifle.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch G3]]||7.62x51mm NATO||20, 50||1964-Present||[[Heckler & Koch G3A4]] [[Heckler & Koch G3KA4]] [[Heckler & Koch G3SG/1]] [[Heckler & Koch HK91]]||[[File:HKG3A3.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch PSG-1]]||7.62x51mm NATO||5, 20||1972–Present||[[Heckler & Koch SR9]] [[Heckler & Koch MSG90]]||[[File:H&KPSG01.jpg‎|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch G36]]||5.56x45mm NATO||20, 50, 100||1996–Present||[[Heckler & Koch G36K]] [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] [[Heckler & Koch MG36]] [[Heckler & Koch SL8]]||[[File:HKG36.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch HK33]]||5.56x45mm NATO||25, 30, 40||1968-????|||[[Heckler & Koch HK93]] [[Heckler & Koch HK53]] [[Heckler & Koch G41]]||[[File:HK33_A2.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_rifle_series#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK416|Heckler & Koch HK416]]||5.56×45mm NATO||20, 30, 100||2005–Present||[[Heckler & Koch M27 IAR]]||[[File:Heckler_and_Koch_416.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_rifle_series#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK417|Heckler & Koch HK417]]||7.62x51mm NATO||10, 20||????–Present|| ||[[File:HK417_12.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch XM8]]||5.56x45mm NATO||30, 100||2003-2004 Prototypes Only||[[Heckler & Koch XM8 Carbine]] [[Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine]] [[Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter Rifle]] [[Heckler & Koch XM8 Automatic Rifle]]||[[File:Xm8_rightmed.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch XM29 Objective Individual Combat Weapon]] || 5.56x45mm / 20x28mm (early) 25x40mm (late) || 30 / 6 || OICW project from late 80s, cancelled 2005, never produced || Large number of prototypes || [[Image:Oicw.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Grenade Launchers==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|Heckler & Koch AG36]]||40x46mm grenade||single-shot||1990s-Present|| L123A2 UGL AG-C L17A1 UGL||[[File:Ag36.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch GMG]]||40x53mm grenade||32-round belt||1995-Present||||[[File:HKGMG.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch HK69A1 grenade launcher|Heckler & Koch HK69A1]]||40x46mm grenade||single-shot||1972-Present||[[HK79]]||[[File:HK69A1.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch M320]]||40x46mm grenade||single-shot||2008-Present||XM320||[[File:XM320_stock_extended.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch XM25]]||25x40mm grenade||4||2010-Present|| ||[[File:ATKXM25.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch XM29 Objective Individual Combat Weapon]] || 5.56x45mm / 20x28mm (early) 25x40mm (late) || 30 / 6 || OICW project from late 80s, cancelled 2005, never produced || Large number of prototypes || [[Image:Oicw.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

[[Category:Manufacturer]]

User:DAN11

2012-12-17T09:57:39Z

DAN11: /* Pics */

==Pics==
[[File:G11K1-TE.jpg|200px|thumb|none|G11K1 technische Erprobung]]

== general ==
I am a weapon collector interested in edge cutting developments and production changes of the last century for about a decade now.
I have some knowledge especialy about development of HK G3, MP5 and even more G11. Besides HK developments I have some knowledge about mostly German firearms from the 19th century to now ( of course international firearms aren't missing but I am no expert there).

User:DAN11

2012-12-17T09:56:54Z

DAN11:

==Pics==
[[File:G11K1-TE.jpg|200px|thumb|none|G11K1]]

== general ==
I am a weapon collector interested in edge cutting developments and production changes of the last century for about a decade now.
I have some knowledge especialy about development of HK G3, MP5 and even more G11. Besides HK developments I have some knowledge about mostly German firearms from the 19th century to now ( of course international firearms aren't missing but I am no expert there).

User talk:DAN11

2012-12-17T09:29:59Z

DAN11: /* H&K */

==Welcome to IMFDB==
Before you do any editing please take the time to read the '''[[Rules, Standards and Principles]]'''. This is a very important document that explains how this website is setup as well as telling you what is and isn't allowed. If it is determined by an '''[[admins|admin]]''' that you have not read these rules, your account will be suspended. Continued non-compliance may result in a permanent ban.

There are a number of pages that desperately need your help. You can find these Incomplete pages '''[[incomplete|here]]'''.

If you have any questions, feel free to post them '''[[Talk:Main Page|here]]''' but make sure to sign your post by typing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>.

Finally, IMFDB has a forum set up '''[http://forum.imfdb.org/ here]''' that is only available to registered members. There is lots of good stuff to see there. If you would like to join the forum, please post '''[[Forum Request|HERE]]''' and an account will be created for you.

Now, HAPPY EDITING! [[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 22:30, 29 November 2012 (EST)

== H&K ==

In that case it would appear as though I am the one who is mistaking. Please feel free to go ahead with your edits. That being said, I would also caution you on the tone that you take with other members of this site. Sarcastic remarks such as "I thought (and always felt like when I was browsing this site) you want to state at least not wrong information" are unhelpful and unappreciated. I was mistaken in this case and should not have undone your edit but if you wish to be a member of the IMFDB community, please watch how you speak to other users, particularly when the user in question is the site admin. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 18:15, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:I apologize if I offended or insulted you or someone else but the mentioned quote was not meant to be sarcastic it was just the plain truth why I joined here. Regarding my other writings I just can say I can not resist using stylistic devices that easily when people support internet lies in discussions or else where but I will try to minimize that. In case I mistook what you meant by tone I should mention that I am possibly not too familiar with US standard text interpretation. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:29, 17 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch

2012-12-16T21:56:23Z

DAN11: /* G11 */

== Handguns ==

If anyone would like to adjust the Handguns' table so that the calibers line up with the capacity available for that caliber that would be great. If you don't get what I mean, look at the Heckler & Koch UMP in the Sub-Machine gun category. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:07, 23 December 2011 (CST)

== :) ==
I like this idea. While this isn't a wiki, strictly speaking, like it or not, this IS the place people go online to learn stuff about firearms. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:26, 17 January 2012 (CST)

:Just to "keep it German," I'm glad that a brand-and-firearms-made-by-that-brand page for Walther has been made too. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 23:55, 17 January 2012 (CST)

Who did this page because im certain the HK45 didnt come out in 1995 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 20:18, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:I did this page. And according to the Manufacturer of the gun it was "first released in 1995". http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/hk45_general.asp What makes you "so certain"? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:40, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::I think the reason it seems odd is the HK45/P30 seem like "replacements" for the USPs, and the HK45 only came out a couple years after the USP and about the same time as the USP45, while for some reason the 9mm version of the HK45, the P30, didn't come out until 2006. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:58, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::I think it is a poorly worded sentence that actually refers to the release date of the USP45 and not the HK45. As the sentence reads "The HK45 was developed as a product improvement of the highly regarded USP45, first released in the 1995." While it could mean that the HK45 was released that year, it most likely means that it is an improvement over the gun released that year. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] 06:21, 23 January 2012 (CST)

::::It IS a poorly worded sentence. The HK45 did NOT exist back in 1995. It was the USP45 that was first released in 1995. the HK45 replaced that gun in 2005. Hell the one pic I got of the screen used gun for [[Book of Eli, The]] was one of the earliest ones in Hollywood Inventory... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:35, 23 January 2012 (CST)

:::::Well [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] is the expert here so I will GLADLY defer to him. Any one who has a better source of when the gun was actually introduced, please correct my mistake. Thanks. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:51, 23 January 2012 (CST)

The HK45 was made specifically for the Joint Combat Pistol Program which ran from 2005-2006, so the HK45 was first produced in 2005.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:52, 23 January 2012 (CST)

:That sounds better. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:10, 23 January 2012 (CST)

== G28 ==

Any further information on this? The only things I have heard are that it is the new German DMR and that, the weight is something like seventeen pounds. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:33, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:Google "G28 DMR" for lots of pics. It's based on the HK417, and seems to be the German Army's Mk11/M110. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:37, 19 February 2012 (CST)

My guess is that it isn't going to be well liked. They seem to have gone for a hybrid between a DMR and a sniper rifle. For something shooting out of a 16.5" barrel the scope is ridiculous, being up to x20 magnification while something like x6-8 is fine for DM work. The length of it means that if you have the night vision device mounted in front it is all the way at the front of the rifle meaning a long rail is needed and generally making for a very front heavy and cumbersome weapon. Loaded with optics this thing weighs 17.4 lbs, and when you compare it to comparable weapons like the new British L129A1 which weighs about 11 lbs, this is just too heavy, and cumbersome looking to boot. I think they have tried to make a sniper rifle/DMR hybrid and don't think it will do great as either. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:26, 19 February 2012 (CST)

On their website they state its 5800 grams I did the math and it equals 12.78 pounds so the source must have been incorret

:17.4lbs is when it is loaded and with issued accessories. 5800g is the weapon, 1250g for the sight, 150g for empty mag, and 500g for 20 rounds of 7.62 which comes to 7700g which is about 17lbs. Maybe the rest is the bipod, or mounts or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:26, 10 August 2012 (CDT)

:: It's just the way you worded your opinion made it sound like the 11 lbs L129A1 and the 17.4 lbs G28 were the same, when that G28 weight included 4.6 lbs of stuff on it. I do agree that 12.78 lbs is still rather heavy for the rifle, but it would appear that for what the German Army wanted. Had they wanted a lighter rifle they could have just continued to use the G27, which was a stock HK417 that with a 16 inch barrel and weighs 10.16 lbs, but they wanted improved accuracy while maintaining the modularity that the HK417 offered which resulted in a weapon that ends up with a greater overall weight. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] 15:54, 10 August 2012 (CDT)

Well i thought charon was talking 17 lbs for the weapon and I can't see the German army getting a gun with all those problems they wouldn't have gotten it unless it met their standards we need more information on the weapon before deciding its worth.

== G11 ==

Come on guys the project was not cancelled and there were 3 variants (G11K1 ,ACR and G11K2) avialable for purchase after the project was successfully completed in 1991, just no one purchased it. In addition to that there were only '''256''' G11s made (including all prototypes stages) so these 1000 were never made also the project started in 1968 and ended in 1991 successfully. All this information you can read in books why do you write such stuff? ( "Die G11-Story - Die Entwicklungsgeschichte einer High-Tech-Waffe" by Wolfgang Seel in german but the most complete book about the development, testing and adoption of the G11 and there is even a book in '''english''' that contains correct information about the G11 it is the 50th anniversary book from HK "HK History Book" you can find that in their online shop) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:25, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:You are welcome to update the information on the G11 page but we only list firearms that have appeared in movies. As none of these variants have appeared, there is no need to list them all. Please remember that this is NOT a gun wiki. It is a wiki about firearms that have appeared in film. I encourage you to read the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 16:25, 16 December 2012 (EST)
::I did not want to make this a gun wiki but information that is wrong stays wrong and I thought (and always felt like when I was browsing this site) you want to state at least not wrong information and at least the G11K1/ACR appeared in [[Demolition Man]] and the G11K2 in [[Call of Duty: Black Ops]] (yes the last was no movie but it is listed at this site (and yes I hate referencing to CoD)) so these variants appeared indeed so that I thought that they should be listed. If my thinking or feeling is wrong about this let me know. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:56, 16 December 2012 (EST)

Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-16T20:18:04Z

DAN11: I have corrected dates and facts and added a few details. You can read most of that in books, a few things not. For the data you wont find in books you would have read the NATO, US Army and Bundewehr documentation about the project, and of course HKO

[[Image:G11-1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch G11 K1 - 4.73x33mm]]
[[Image:HK_G11_caseless_Rifle.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch G11 K2 - 4.73x33mm]]
The G11 assault rifle was developed by Heckler & Koch from 1968 to 1991 as a potential replacement for West Germany's G3 battle rifles; it was also entered in the US military's Advanced Combat Rifle program in 1982 and was tested during the field experiment 1989-1990. It was mechanically sound but unsuccessful politically, finding itself being considered for adoption just as East and West Germany were reunified; There were 256 prototypes build, but the weapon never entered full production although the project was completed successfully and the weapon was officially adopted by the Bundeswehr. However, its futuristic design has led to it being featured frequently in video games and other media where an actual weapon is not required.

==Specifications==
(Project 1968 - 1991, never entered production)

* '''Type:''' Assault Rifle

* '''Caliber(s):''' 4.73x33mm caseless and 4.92x33mm(ACR)

* '''Weight:''' 8 lbs (3.6 kg) unloaded, 9.48 lbs (4.3 kg) G11K2 loaded

* '''Length:''' 29.5 in (75 cm)

* '''Barrel length(s):''' 21.3 in (54 cm)

* '''Capacity:''' 45(G11K2) or 50(G11K1 and earlier) round box magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto/3-Round-Burst/Full-Auto

-----

'''The Heckler & Koch G11 has appeared in the following films, video games and anime:'''

=== Film ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Demolition Man]]'' || [[Wesley Snipes]] || Simon Phoenix || As a futuristic beam particle gun || 1993
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Fallout 2]]||"H&K G11" & "H&K G11E"||||with scope||1999
|-
|[[Jagged Alliance 2]]||||||||1999
|-
|[[Syphon Filter 2]]||H11||||||2000
|-
|[[007: Agent Under Fire]]||Koffler & Stock D17||||||2001
|-
|[[Spec Ops: Ranger Elite]]||||||||2001
|-
|[[Delta Force: Land Warrior]]||||||||2002
|-
|[[Global Operations]]||||||||2002
|-
|[[Chaser]]||Heckler&Koch G11||||||2003
|-
|[[Project IGI 2: Covert Strike]]||||||||2003
|-
|[[Syphon Filter: The Omega Strain]]||C11||||||2004
|-
| [[Söldner: Secret Wars]] || |||| || 2004
|-
|[[Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow]]||C11||||||2007
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || HK G11 K2 ||bayonet, G11 K2 optical scope, Aimpoint Comp red dot sight, ACOG sight, Leupold M8 sight or AN/PVS-4 night sight || || 2008
|-
| [[Code of Honor 2: Conspiracy Island]] || "H&K G11" || ||with scope || 2008
|-
| [[Code of Honor 3: Desperate Measures]] || "H&K G11" || || MP only || 2009
|-
|[[Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker]]|| G11 || G11 Prototype model 2 || ||2009
|-
|[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]||G11||||||2010
|-
|[[War Inc. Battlezone]]|| || || ||2011
|-
|}

=== Anime ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="400"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Neon Genesis Evangelion]]'' || JSSDF soldiers || || 1997
|-
| ''[[Darker Than Black]]'' || PANDORA guards || || 2008
|-
|}
 

=See Also=
{{HK}}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Rifle]]
[[Category:Bullpup]]

Talk:Heckler & Koch MP5

2012-12-16T18:35:59Z

DAN11: /* HK SMG series */

Talk:Heckler & Koch

2012-12-16T18:25:21Z

DAN11: /* G11 */ new section

Talk:Heckler & Koch MP5

2012-12-16T17:15:50Z

DAN11: /* HK SMG series */ new section

Heckler & Koch

2012-12-16T14:27:26Z

DAN11: /* Rifles */

[[image:H&K_Logo.jpg|thumb|right|275px|Heckler & Koch]]
__TOC__ 
=About=
Heckler & Koch was founded by Edmund Heckler, Theodor Koch, and Alex Seidel in 1949. It emerged out of what was leftover from the [[Mauser]] company. It was not until 1956 that HK started to manufacture firearms. Prior to that they manufactured tools, sewing machines, gauges and precision parts. HK has a history of innovation such as incorporating polymers in weapon designing and the use of integral rails on handguns. They also developed modern polygonal rifling, noted for its high accuracy, increased muzzle velocity and barrel life.

=Specifications=
'''Founded: ''' 1949

'''Country: ''' Germany

'''Products: ''' Pistols, Submachine Guns, Machine Guns, Shotguns, Rifles, Grenade Launchers

=Guns=
==Pistols==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch HK4]]||.22LR .25 ACP .32 ACP .380 ACP||8 8 8 7||1968-1984|| ||[[image:HK4.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch HK45]]||.45 ACP||10||2005-Present||[[HK45C]] HK45T HK45CT||[[image:HH45.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch Mark 23]]||.45 ACP||12||1996-Present|| Mark 23 Mod 0||[[File:Mk23.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P11]]||7.62 mm x 36 (underwater bullets)||5||1976-1977|| ||[[File:Hk_p11-1.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P2000]]||9x19mm .40 S&W .357 SIG||10, 13 9, 10, 12 9, 10, 12||2001-Present||[[Heckler & Koch P2000SK]]||[[File:P2000_9.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P2A1]]||26.5 mm or 25 mm flares||1||????-????|| ||[[image:H%26K_P2A1.JPG|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P30]]||9×19mm .40 S&W||15 13||2006-Present||[[Heckler & Koch P30L]]||[[File:HK-P30.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P7 pistol series|Heckler & Koch P7]]||.22 LR 9x19mm .32 ACP .380 ACP .40 S&W||8 8, 13 8 8 10||1979–2008||[[Heckler & Koch P7M8]] [[H&K P7M13]]||[[File:HKP7M13Pistol.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P9S]]||9x19mm .45 ACP 7.65x22mm||9 7 ?||1969-1978|| ||[[File:Hk-p9s-1.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch UCP]]||4.6x30mm||20||Never Manufactured|| ||[[File:Hk_ucp_3.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch USP]]||9x19mm .357 SIG (compact only) .40 S&W .45 ACP||15 12 13 12||1993-Present||[[Heckler & Koch P8]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Compact ]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Match]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Elite]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Tactical]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Expert]]||[[File:USP9mm.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch VP70]]||9x19mm Parabellum 9x21mm IMI|| 18 18 ||1970-1989||VP70Z VP70M ||[[File:VP70.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Submachine Guns==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch MP5]]||9x19mm Parabellum 10mm Auto .40 S&W||15, 30, 32, 40, 100 30 30||1966-Present||[[Heckler & Koch MP5A2]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5A4]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5A5]] [[Heckler & Koch HK94]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW]] [[Heckler & Koch SP89]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5/10 and MP5/40]] [[Heckler & Koch SMG]]||[[image:MP5.jpg|200px|]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch MP7]]||4.6x30mm||20, 40||2001-Present|| HK PDW (prototype)||[[File:H%26K_MP71A1.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch UMP]]||.45 ACP .40 S&W 9x19mm Parabellum||25 30 30||1999-Present||[[Heckler & Koch USC]]||[[File:UMP_45.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Machine Guns==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch HK series machine guns|Heckler & Koch HK21]]|| 7.62x51mm NATO 5.56x45mm NATO .50 BMG||20, 50, Belt||1961-????||[[Heckler & Koch HK11]] [[Heckler & Koch HK23]] [[Heckler & Koch GR9S]]||[[File:HK21wBlackFurniture.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch MG4]]||5.56×45mm NATO|| Belt ||2001-Present||[[Heckler & Koch MG4KE]]||[[File:H%26KMG4.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Shotguns==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch FABARM FP6]]||12 Gauge|| 5 ||1998-Present||[[File:Fabarm_Sdass_tactical_-1-.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch CAWS]]||12 Gauge|| 10 ||CAWS project during 1980s, never produced||[[File:Hkcaws.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Benelli M Series Super 90 Shotguns#Heckler & Koch Model 512 Auto Shotgun|Heckler & Koch Model 512]]||12 Gauge|| ? ||??-??||[[File:HK512AutoShotgun.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Rifles==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch G11]]||4.73x33mm caseless||45, 50||Developed 1968-1991, never entered production||G11 G11 Konstruktionsstand 1 G11 Konstruktionsstand 2 (preproductional version)||[[File:HK_G11_caseless_Rifle.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch G3]]||7.62x51mm NATO||20, 50||1964-Present||[[Heckler & Koch G3A4]] [[Heckler & Koch G3KA4]] [[Heckler & Koch G3SG/1]] [[Heckler & Koch HK91]]||[[File:HKG3A3.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch PSG-1]]||7.62x51mm NATO||5, 20||1972–Present||[[Heckler & Koch SR9]] [[Heckler & Koch MSG90]]||[[File:H&KPSG01.jpg‎|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch G36]]||5.56x45mm NATO||20, 50, 100||1996–Present||[[Heckler & Koch G36K]] [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] [[Heckler & Koch MG36]] [[Heckler & Koch SL8]]||[[File:HKG36.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch HK33]]||5.56x45mm NATO||25, 30, 40||1968-????|||[[Heckler & Koch HK93]] [[Heckler & Koch HK53]] [[Heckler & Koch G41]]||[[File:HK33_A2.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_rifle_series#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK416|Heckler & Koch HK416]]||5.56×45mm NATO||20, 30, 100||2005–Present||[[Heckler & Koch M27 IAR]]||[[File:Heckler_and_Koch_416.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_rifle_series#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK417|Heckler & Koch HK417]]||7.62x51mm NATO||10, 20||????–Present|| ||[[File:HK417_12.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch XM8]]||5.56x45mm NATO||30, 100||2003-2004 Prototypes Only||[[Heckler & Koch XM8 Carbine]] [[Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine]] [[Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter Rifle]] [[Heckler & Koch XM8 Automatic Rifle]]||[[File:Xm8_rightmed.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch XM29 Objective Individual Combat Weapon]] || 5.56x45mm / 20x28mm (early) 25x40mm (late) || 30 / 6 || OICW project from late 80s, cancelled 2005, never produced || Large number of prototypes || [[Image:Oicw.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Grenade Launchers==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|Heckler & Koch AG36]]||40x46mm grenade||single-shot||1990s-Present|| L123A2 UGL AG-C L17A1 UGL||[[File:Ag36.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch GMG]]||40x53mm grenade||32-round belt||1995-Present||||[[File:HKGMG.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch HK69A1 grenade launcher|Heckler & Koch HK69A1]]||40x46mm grenade||single-shot||1972-Present||[[HK79]]||[[File:HK69A1.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch M320]]||40x46mm grenade||single-shot||2008-Present||XM320||[[File:XM320_stock_extended.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch XM25]]||25x40mm grenade||4||2010-Present|| ||[[File:ATKXM25.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch XM29 Objective Individual Combat Weapon]] || 5.56x45mm / 20x28mm (early) 25x40mm (late) || 30 / 6 || OICW project from late 80s, cancelled 2005, never produced || Large number of prototypes || [[Image:Oicw.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

[[Category:Manufacturer]]

Talk:Heckler & Koch P11

2012-12-16T10:17:44Z

DAN11: /* Discontinued */

==Discontinued==
Why is this listed as discontinued? As far as I know the P11 is still in use today, since they are also silent. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 18:36, 15 December 2012 (EST)
:Because the base weapon is no longer manufactured. H&K will service the handgun but they are not making any more P11 underwater pistols.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 00:40, 16 December 2012 (EST)
::Sure? As far as I know they even sold them to new customers in the 90s (but possibly they produce in one year more grip shells than they ever needed) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 05:17, 16 December 2012 (EST)

Heckler & Koch

2012-12-16T10:07:41Z

DAN11: /* Rifles */ G11 variants added

[[image:H&K_Logo.jpg|thumb|right|275px|Heckler & Koch]]
__TOC__ 
=About=
Heckler & Koch was founded by Edmund Heckler, Theodor Koch, and Alex Seidel in 1949. It emerged out of what was leftover from the [[Mauser]] company. It was not until 1956 that HK started to manufacture firearms. Prior to that they manufactured tools, sewing machines, gauges and precision parts. HK has a history of innovation such as incorporating polymers in weapon designing and the use of integral rails on handguns. They also developed modern polygonal rifling, noted for its high accuracy, increased muzzle velocity and barrel life.

=Specifications=
'''Founded: ''' 1949

'''Country: ''' Germany

'''Products: ''' Pistols, Submachine Guns, Machine Guns, Shotguns, Rifles, Grenade Launchers

=Guns=
==Pistols==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch HK4]]||.22LR .25 ACP .32 ACP .380 ACP||8 8 8 7||1968-1984|| ||[[image:HK4.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch HK45]]||.45 ACP||10||2005-Present||[[HK45C]] HK45T HK45CT||[[image:HH45.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch Mark 23]]||.45 ACP||12||1996-Present|| Mark 23 Mod 0||[[File:Mk23.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P11]]||7.62 mm x 36 (underwater bullets)||5||1976-1977|| ||[[File:Hk_p11-1.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P2000]]||9x19mm .40 S&W .357 SIG||10, 13 9, 10, 12 9, 10, 12||2001-Present||[[Heckler & Koch P2000SK]]||[[File:P2000_9.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P2A1]]||26.5 mm or 25 mm flares||1||????-????|| ||[[image:H%26K_P2A1.JPG|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P30]]||9×19mm .40 S&W||15 13||2006-Present||[[Heckler & Koch P30L]]||[[File:HK-P30.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P7 pistol series|Heckler & Koch P7]]||.22 LR 9x19mm .32 ACP .380 ACP .40 S&W||8 8, 13 8 8 10||1979–2008||[[Heckler & Koch P7M8]] [[H&K P7M13]]||[[File:HKP7M13Pistol.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch P9S]]||9x19mm .45 ACP 7.65x22mm||9 7 ?||1969-1978|| ||[[File:Hk-p9s-1.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch UCP]]||4.6x30mm||20||Never Manufactured|| ||[[File:Hk_ucp_3.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch USP]]||9x19mm .357 SIG (compact only) .40 S&W .45 ACP||15 12 13 12||1993-Present||[[Heckler & Koch P8]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Compact ]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Match]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Elite]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Tactical]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] [[Heckler & Koch USP Expert]]||[[File:USP9mm.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch VP70]]||9x19mm Parabellum 9x21mm IMI|| 18 18 ||1970-1989||VP70Z VP70M ||[[File:VP70.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Submachine Guns==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch MP5]]||9x19mm Parabellum 10mm Auto .40 S&W||15, 30, 32, 40, 100 30 30||1966-Present||[[Heckler & Koch MP5A2]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5A4]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5A5]] [[Heckler & Koch HK94]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW]] [[Heckler & Koch SP89]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]] [[Heckler & Koch MP5/10 and MP5/40]] [[Heckler & Koch SMG]]||[[image:MP5.jpg|200px|]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch MP7]]||4.6x30mm||20, 40||2001-Present|| HK PDW (prototype)||[[File:H%26K_MP71A1.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch UMP]]||.45 ACP .40 S&W 9x19mm Parabellum||25 30 30||1999-Present||[[Heckler & Koch USC]]||[[File:UMP_45.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Machine Guns==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch HK series machine guns|Heckler & Koch HK21]]|| 7.62x51mm NATO 5.56x45mm NATO .50 BMG||20, 50, Belt||1961-????||[[Heckler & Koch HK11]] [[Heckler & Koch HK23]] [[Heckler & Koch GR9S]]||[[File:HK21wBlackFurniture.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch MG4]]||5.56×45mm NATO|| Belt ||2001-Present||[[Heckler & Koch MG4KE]]||[[File:H%26KMG4.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Shotguns==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch FABARM FP6]]||12 Gauge|| 5 ||1998-Present||[[File:Fabarm_Sdass_tactical_-1-.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch CAWS]]||12 Gauge|| 10 ||CAWS project during 1980s, never produced||[[File:Hkcaws.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Benelli M Series Super 90 Shotguns#Heckler & Koch Model 512 Auto Shotgun|Heckler & Koch Model 512]]||12 Gauge|| ? ||??-??||[[File:HK512AutoShotgun.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Rifles==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch G11]]||4.73x33mm caseless||45, 50||Developed 1968-1991, never entered production||G11 G11 Konstruktionsstand 1 G11 Konstruktionsstand 2 (prepruductional version)||[[File:HK_G11_caseless_Rifle.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch G3]]||7.62x51mm NATO||20, 50||1964-Present||[[Heckler & Koch G3A4]] [[Heckler & Koch G3KA4]] [[Heckler & Koch G3SG/1]] [[Heckler & Koch HK91]]||[[File:HKG3A3.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch PSG-1]]||7.62x51mm NATO||5, 20||1972–Present||[[Heckler & Koch SR9]] [[Heckler & Koch MSG90]]||[[File:H&KPSG01.jpg‎|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch G36]]||5.56x45mm NATO||20, 50, 100||1996–Present||[[Heckler & Koch G36K]] [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] [[Heckler & Koch MG36]] [[Heckler & Koch SL8]]||[[File:HKG36.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch HK33]]||5.56x45mm NATO||25, 30, 40||1968-????|||[[Heckler & Koch HK93]] [[Heckler & Koch HK53]] [[Heckler & Koch G41]]||[[File:HK33_A2.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_rifle_series#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK416|Heckler & Koch HK416]]||5.56×45mm NATO||20, 30, 100||2005–Present||[[Heckler & Koch M27 IAR]]||[[File:Heckler_and_Koch_416.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_rifle_series#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK417|Heckler & Koch HK417]]||7.62x51mm NATO||10, 20||????–Present|| ||[[File:HK417_12.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[Heckler & Koch XM8]]||5.56x45mm NATO||30, 100||2003-2004 Prototypes Only||[[Heckler & Koch XM8 Carbine]] [[Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine]] [[Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter Rifle]] [[Heckler & Koch XM8 Automatic Rifle]]||[[File:Xm8_rightmed.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch XM29 Objective Individual Combat Weapon]] || 5.56x45mm / 20x28mm (early) 25x40mm (late) || 30 / 6 || OICW project from late 80s, cancelled 2005, never produced || Large number of prototypes || [[Image:Oicw.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

==Grenade Launchers==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:center; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Produced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Variants'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|Heckler & Koch AG36]]||40x46mm grenade||single-shot||1990s-Present|| L123A2 UGL AG-C L17A1 UGL||[[File:Ag36.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch GMG]]||40x53mm grenade||32-round belt||1995-Present||||[[File:HKGMG.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch HK69A1 grenade launcher|Heckler & Koch HK69A1]]||40x46mm grenade||single-shot||1972-Present||[[HK79]]||[[File:HK69A1.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch M320]]||40x46mm grenade||single-shot||2008-Present||XM320||[[File:XM320_stock_extended.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch XM25]]||25x40mm grenade||4||2010-Present|| ||[[File:ATKXM25.jpg|200px]]
|-
| [[Heckler & Koch XM29 Objective Individual Combat Weapon]] || 5.56x45mm / 20x28mm (early) 25x40mm (late) || 30 / 6 || OICW project from late 80s, cancelled 2005, never produced || Large number of prototypes || [[Image:Oicw.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}

[[Category:Manufacturer]]

Talk:Heckler & Koch P11

2012-12-15T23:36:23Z

DAN11: Created page with "Why is this listed as discontinued? As far as I know the P11 is still in use today, since they are also silent. --~~~~"

Why is this listed as discontinued? As far as I know the P11 is still in use today, since they are also silent. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 18:36, 15 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Grand Theft Auto: Vice City

2012-12-11T18:19:32Z

DAN11:

its funny how all the submachine guns and pistols in this game are chrome.
:Its the 1980s Man!Back then everything was chromed.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]]
::They don't make em like that anymore...lol

Haha that is so true mate - I though I was the only one to notice that inaccuracy and get pissed by it. Funny how that also continued to SA, which is set in 1992. BTW, in reality, I highly doubt they make chrome MP5s! [[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]] 14:35, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
: I have to say for me they do not feel like chrome, just a little bit too bright. However, HK does chrome plated guns or any other kind of custom modification it just depends on who you are and how much money you want to spend, possibly they would not do any modification but most they would do. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:19, 11 December 2012 (EST)

== The Eagle ==
:Is that really the model used in game?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
::No, but that's the closest one I could find. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 21:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Then what is it doing here?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
::::I remember the scene that the Desert Eagle was used in, post a screenshot of that. [[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]]
::Yeah, that is much better than using the Desert Eagle model in GTA IV.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:Ok, I'll try to find it. [[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 22:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
::I forget who wrote the Desert Eagle section, but they said that the model Lance Vance used was the same model in San Andreas. I have a picture of that, so I'll use that -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 17:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
:::There was also a golden Desert Eagle.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:04, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::::I don't recall that, but where did you see it? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 18:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::I think there was a golden Eagle. I think it was used by Diaz to shoot up his video cassete and used by Lance or Tommy to execute Diaz.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:10, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Let me check on that for you. I know the one Lance use was definitely a standard Eagle, but i'll check the one Diaz used. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 19:16, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::::No, Diaz uses a standard Eagle as well. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 19:22, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Fuck, i gonna check some gameplay videos to see if there are any golden Desert Eagles.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:24, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Lance used a regular one. Now if i could only find the mission that Diaz shot up his cassete.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::Diaz used a regular one as well. I remember seing a golden desert eagle in one of the earlier GTAs don't know which one though.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:37, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I already checked the gameplay videos. The mission where Diaz shoots the cassette is "Supply and Demand" -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 21:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Hello Again, I was the one who added the Desert Eagle aswell as other NonGameplay Weapons to other GTA pages.

I have noticed now the Desert Eagle in Vice City is a slightly 'thinner' model and used a 'chrome' texture.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/gtawiki/images/1/16/PhilCassidyGTAVC.jpg Image from Grand Theft Wiki.

- Thomas

:Ok, well, thank you, I guess. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 23:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

== Clean-up ==

Hey, just noticed a few missng things and inaccuracies here. Since I'm a complete GTA freak, I'll comment on them. I'm no gun-nut, so please feel free to correct any mistakes. But please gimme a heads up on this section, as I'm watching it and maybe waiting to pounce and flame you, j/k. :D
TC. [[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]] 14:38, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
:Are you german or something?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:46, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Haha lol no, sorry for the typos. Actually Iraqi - guess that's much worse to be honest :D. Anyway done as much cleaning up as I can, as I gotta go somewhere now. Will hopefully continue tomorrow or whenever I'm free. I added a few more interesting tid-bits, aswell as standardised how each section and the different information is organised. Please anyone feel free to continue my work in the same style. Cheers, and TC all. [[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]] 15:23, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

== Ithaca 37 Stakeout (Moved from main page) ==

For those of you who think this is a Serbu Super Shorty, this Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" is the exact same model as the one used in the game: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5056/l1030201wqe9.jpg

Wow it looks exactly like a Serbu Super Shorty, which isn't even a manufactured weapon anyway. It's a style of customization that can be applied to any pump action shotgun. Usually a Remington, sometimes a Mossberg, no reason it can't be applied to an Ithaca, which is what that picture looks like. An Ithaca that has been "Serbued". The folding vertical grip on the pump is the defining characteristic here. It's a Super Shorty, even if it is an Ithaca.

protip: "no it isn't" is a piss poor argument

rebuttal: I'm pretty sure Rockstar did not go out of their way to include an "Ithaca 37 Stakeout that looks like it was modified". They saw a Serbu Super Shorty in a movie, decided it looked cool, and ran with it without checking any facts. Which would explain both its anachronistic presence and any minor details that would lead you to believe it is an Ithaca

Dongs you are an idiot. I saw everybody complaining about your idiotic Perfect Dark article. You don't know what you're talking about so maybe you should just go away and let the adults handle this.

And just as a kick in your nuts, I'm gonna back up my "no fact check" theory right now. Putting the M4 carbine in games that predate 1995 in setting, giving the AR15 rifles 50 and 60 round magazines, giving M1911A1 pistols 12 and 17 round magazines and calling them "nines", giving bolt and pump action rifles either limitless magazines or one shot magazines, etc. all proof that rockstar doesn't know jack cheese about guns and just sticks things there because they look cool, reality be damned.

Now stop editing my article. -[[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]]

:Ok, first off, i'm really not sure who a lot of these comments are directed at. I never wrote "no it isn't". And I have no idea what you mean about Perfect Dark. The only thing I've done is add a link to that website. However, I have contributed A LOT to this article (as well as to all the other Grand Theft Auto articles, even though sometimes I forget to use my screename when editing, lol. You will see when I forget to log in, my user name is 67.232.142.109), and I am free to edit this article in the best means necessary, as is anyone on this website. Maybe you started it, but I must say, you didn't do a very good job.

:But, I didn't come here to attack you personally. It is more likely that the people at Rockstar we're researching the 1980s era for this game, saw the Ithaca 37 used in Miami Vice (the same exact model from the website I linked), thought THAT gun was cool, and used it in the game. And I really fail to see how the gun on the page I linked is exactly like the Serbu Super Shorty. Do you see an ejection port anywhere on this gun? NO.

:I do agree that often times, Rockstar has made stupid mistakes with weapons, but a lot of the weapons they do put in their games are correct. In this game, the Python, Chrome shotgun, Stubby shotgun, Spas-12, Uzi, Mac-10, MP5, Ruger, Sniper Rifle, M60, and RPG all have real life specifications. There are many others in other games as well. Besides which, real life specifications are irrelevent in this matter. We're talking about how a shotgun "looks" not how it "functions". There is a difference. And as far as how a weapon looks, Rockstar has always been accurate with that (for a video game).

:I'd appreciate it if you stop insulting those who are trying to help you see that you are clearly wrong. Maybe you should stop editing the article because you obviously don't know much about guns. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 16:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

::I just looked at the page history. THIS IS NOT YOUR ARTICLE. The person who created this article's screename is "Cutaway", not "PersonsofInterest". You only started editing this article yesterday. Nice try, pal, but in the future, don't try to pass off something that's someone elses as your own. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 16:58, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

didn't mean the whole article, just this section, waiting on forums discussion before proceeding with further edits (somebody should put up the actual pic of Don Johnson's shotgun if they feel so strongly about this) -[[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]]

:Oh, ok then, but it's really not YOUR article, either. Actually, it was Philip Michael Thomas, not Don Johnson, but whatever, that's not the point. If you look on the Miami Vice page, you'll see a link to the same website, and it says "This was the same gun used by Philip Michael Thomas" (or something like that I think). -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 19:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

::Yeah I just checked. The page I linked is the actual Ithaca 37 used in Miami Vice. Actually, give me a minute, and I'll get the screen shot from Vice City of the stubby. You'll see that it has no ejection port on the side and is much longer than the Serbu, proving it is an Ithaca 37 stakeout. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 19:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Here it is:

[[Image:Stubby_vc.png|thumb|400px|none]]

Obviously, it doesn't look exactly like an Ithaca 37 (because it is a video game and it's animated, lol), but it's pretty much dead on. The biggest giveaway is that the stubby shotgun is substantially bigger than the Serbu, making it the same size as the Ithaca. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 19:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:And if i remember, there is no ejection port.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== Game strategies in the description? ==

Although neat and thoughtful is it really necessary to start adding in game suggestions to the descriptions? The page is meant to tell viewers what firearms appear in the game, not how to use certain strategies to your advantage while playing … no? If you want to do that then just put it in the discussion page. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 08:45, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Who is this directed at? - POI

Uhh... to whichever person added that the Hunter has a chin-mounted Browning M2, they were off the mark. The Apache has an M230 30mm chain gun under its chin, and I'll bet the game designers wanted the more powerful of the two so...yeah.

== Complaint from Weapon Companies to Rockstar Games ==

In the First Release of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, it featured weapon names like Colt .45, Colt Python and Colt M4. For the same reason there are no real car names, real life companies like Colt did not authorise their use in the Game and GTA Vice City was re-released with the guns renamed, plus some weapons remodeled. The First Release of GTA Vice City had a Colt Rifle with a 14.5 inch barrel, like the M4. Strange though how even with a shorter barrel, it still resembled a Colt weapon.

:Hmm... I vaguely remember those names from back in the day when I first got the game. Maybe I should have kept my "pre-Double Pack" copy of Vice City as a collector's item like I did my first edition ("Hot Coffee"-compatible version) of San Andreas instead of giving it away. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:29, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Colt doesn't own the name "M4" because US copyright does not recognize it as a trademark, because of the legal situation with Heckler & Koch's HK416. [[User:RadiumMetal|RadiumMetal]] 12:51, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::That happened in 2005, this game came out in 2002. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:22, 1 December 2011 (CST)
::...when Colt ''did'' have a copyright on "M4", yeah. HK settled out of court with Colt by changing the name of their carbine from "HK M4" to "HK416", though. But I think the issue Colt had was with their ''brand name'' being used, rather than weapon names. So they had legitimate grounds for complaint, IMHO. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:27, 1 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-10T14:27:58Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */

== Site introduction ==
The information stated in the introduction is '''wrong''' there were only '''265''' G11s ever made, so the mentioned '''1000''' units were never produced. Unless you have a better source than first hand information I would think the mentioned 1000 are misleading. In addition to that it was not only developed in the 80s it was developed from 1968 to 1990 and only the last K2 and K2/3 had 45 round magazines every other had 50 rounds --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 07:50, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:And you have first hand knowledge...How, exactly? I'm not saying you don't, but I'm not going to accept you saying that without explanation. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:I have indeed, lets say there were some very rare occasions in the past where one was able to get his hands on these information and I was lucky :) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:31, 1 December 2012 (EST)
I do know that there is at least one person who tried out a G11 on HKPro. I'll have to drop them a line and see if they have any interesting information.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 19:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
: You should ask for G3k he knows it for sure --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:Where do you guys even got this number 1000? This number never even was considered as an initial purchase number. The only time I read something like that was somewhere where someone wrote some crap about a contianer with 1000 G11s stolen by some Nazis in England or so. And if ask someone on HKPro ask some one who not just tried it out, only trying somethink doesn't qualify in development history. In other words you can't ask the guys and girls who tested the ACR model during the ACR-Tests for production numbers, because they were not part of deleopment or production but testing for the US Army so they could answer you questions like how it shoots and how you get recruited for testing ( some of the testers even had only shot the M16 before the ACR). Or ask me for production numbers of the Gebirgsjäger, I have tired it out ( and can say that is a brutal little thing) but I have no idea who produced it, how many were ever produced or wich units in detail got these in wich number ( of course I can look some of this up in books but thats not the piont here). --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 06:38, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::Can both sides cite their sources? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:47, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::: Heckler und Koch Oberndorf --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 10:40, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::You can't really just say "Heckler & Koch" and expect to be taken on faith. The number that you can find widely stated online is that there were about a thousand made (for example Wikipedia) although this number may be total bollocks and based on the same lie that everyone is copying. If you have actual information, which I would assume you do as you came up with the bizarrely specific number of 265, then that would make you seemingly the only person on the internet that knows so could you provide some more information as to how you know this or perhaps a corroborating source. For my own part, I would say that only 265 sounds like too few a number considering where the G11 got to in its development. I'm lumping together the K1s K2s and K3s together on this one, is the 265 you state for a specific variant or all together? Numbers that I know of for sure, are that there were at least 15 or so prototype iterations before the K1 (that may have had more than one example of each iteration), 20 that were sold to the US (K3 variant I believe, the one with the narrower rubber but pad) and there is also one in the UK Defence Academy in Shrivenham which is a K1 (along with examples of the other 3 ACR candidates, despite the fact that this weapons was not the type that was tested. A K1 is also seen in "promotional" material for the ACR tests before the tests began, so could be the same gun). I have also seen a photo of a K1 with a serial number in the 80s implying that there were at least this many K1s made, and everything I have seen implied that the K2 was the more common variant, so 265 total sounds too low to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I said HKO wich means I'm referring to '''the''' source in '''Oberndorf''' as you know there is where the magic happens, what should I say more? if you don't believe me ok go ahead. Besides that the prototypes were numbered from 0 to 265, therefore ok I was wrong the number has to be 266 or 267 when you want to take into account that prototype number 64 was built two times and want to count prototype number 0 as a full prototype weapon wich in fact it wasn't. EDIT: I have to say Wikipedia tends to lie a lot when it comes to stuff where not that much people have knowledge about try it out with Zuse's Z1 all you will find is crap ( except there now was one who corrected the wrong stuff). The K2 was the most rare prototype version besides the first testfixtures and the tankversion.--[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:20, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::"if you don't believe me ok go ahead." Ok, we won't. You expect us to take info made in anonymous comments on faith?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 12:10, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: I have mentioned my source so I guess faith doesn't apply here that much, anonymity applies very well but I guess most here are more or less anonymous. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::So your source is an HK employee at Oberndorf? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:41, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::: More or less it is the archive itself --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 15:58, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::Can you find anything online or in a book to corroborate that? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: The most complete book about the G11 is the book "Die G11-Story - Die Entwicklungsgeschichte einer High-Tech-Waffe"(by Wolfgang Seel in german) there you will find most of the things I have said, in addition to that you find some usefull information in th 50th anniversary book. In case you would like to have a guy more close to HK you could ask G3kurz on HKPro about the G11/ACR. HKPro is the only reliable online source in english if it comes to HK and especially G11, but I have to say you even mostly see crap written in german forums and websites. At the bottom of the page you can see a pic that I uploaded it shows the K1 as testen by the Bundeswehr, you wont find a pic of that online. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:23, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: Here is an online source for the production numbers: http://www.whq-forum.de/invisionboard/lofiversion/index.php?t12226.html he just emailed HK --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:30, 3 December 2012 (EST)

The G11 didn't just entered the Phase III of the ACR-Programm it entered at the beginning of the programm in 1982. You can find that info in the books I mentioned above and in the military documentation. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 09:24, 10 December 2012 (EST)

The project was never cancelled it was comleted successfully in 1991 and in 1992 the G11 was adopted by the Bundewehr, therefore '''G'''11 (official designation Gewehr 11) EDIT: It was adopted but never ordered and issued.--[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 09:24, 10 December 2012 (EST)

==HKPRO thread==
I am starting a Thread on HKPro to see if what changes if needed are to be made to this page. Basically my plan is to get feedback on the information we have and then edit as needed. Who knows maybe we can usser in an era of co-operation between the IMFDB and the greater internet firearms community.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 18:37, 2 December 2012 (EST)

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/169921-g11-information-wanted.html

The link doesn't work when I click on it.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 20:07, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) ==
The current picture used to show a G11K1 actually shows some kind of transition from K1 to K2.
The forearm is from a K1, reciever and buttstock are from a K2, you can tell by the different trigger guard and the raised lines for for the extra magazines ports/wells. Does some one know where this picture is from? As far as I know the K1 and K2 bodies aren't compatible. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:37, 30 November 2012 (EST)
:To me this looks like a photoshop of the back end of a K2 with the front end of a K1. What are the "raised lines" you are referring to, do you mean the magazine catch, as this was different between the two models I think. There is also that bizarre lump above the magazine in front of the carry handle that has no business being there on either a K1 or K2, making it a bad photo-shop. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:: These "lumps" were present on most of the ACR and K1 models and even returned scaled down to a minimum on K2s, I wont call it bad photoshop because why should one shop an image like this when he already had a pic of an ACR/K1? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:26, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::If that lump was on the K1s (not sure we are talking about the same thing as I have never seen it on another image of any variant) then maybe it isn't bad photoshop, but it is definitely photoshop. The source is from [http://gunco-book.tripod.com/Index.htm Small Arms Illustrated], specifically [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qflUzEZHwes/TIKOjYbjN6I/AAAAAAAAAJY/IAzaMf0LIMU/s1600/SmallArms107.jpg this] image from a previous edition (the current edition on the site is lower res, but this is the previous larger size image that both the current K1 and K2 images were taken from). As usefull as this site is for ID'ing guns it very commonly uses photoshop to build up images of guns from other variants, which appears to be the case here. You can tell by the same pattern of wear on the gun, errant pixels in the same place, and the fact that there is a colour hue difference between the front and back half of the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I had identified the lump as the thing above the mag well that most people would think it is the magrelease (I hope this is the one you talked about). There are also color differences between the parts of the shown K2, I think it would be also possible that a) there was a version where the middle housing and the buttstock were already K2 spec but lacking a finished K2 handguard or b) it was a ergonomic test mockup or somethink in between with a bit of both. In case it is one of the latter it would be interesting to know where they got this pic from. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::::The lump I was talking about was the square part on the front of the sight. Is this what you are saying is the overpressure valve? Also where is the magazine catch? I think you are over thinking the origin of the K1 image on that site I linked to, photoshop is commonly used on there and if you compare the K1 and K2 images you can see that they appear to use the exact same photo of the receiver with different handguards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:15, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: That lump is the lump I thought you are talking about. The overpressure valve is the thing coming out of the bottom of the buttstock and the magazine release is the button below the eyepiece on top of the buttstock. The magazine catch is a part of the system inside the housing, you wont be able to release it as long as the system is moving because it wont be in place. Regarding the site, possibly I do but it doesn't make much sense to me that they obviously had a clear orthographic shot of a K1 handguard without having one of a complete gun or having one and shopping stuff like this. In case that the ones they show there are mock ups or ergonomic test models, you should notice that they even added wear to these and as long as the wear would be produced by some kind of protocol the wear could seem the same. Possibly I am really wrong here and just smell some exciting new info 8) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:49, 8 December 2012 (EST)
::: I have uploaded a pic showing a G11K1 as tested by the Bundeswehr, you can see it still has the first version overpressure valve, later K1s had the newer version like the ACRs and K2s and a few had a removable carrying handle like the K2. [[File:G11K1-TE.jpg|200px|thumb|none|G11K1]]
::::: I have to correct myself I just saw that the tested ACRs had the same overpressure valve as the shown K1 --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::Nice pic, will make this the standard one for the K1. Do you have any pics of similar quality of the K2 variant? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::: I will look through my stuff there should be one but can't give a guarentee --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 03:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)
:::::: The only more or less orthographic K2 pic I have is with a sling attached --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 09:25, 8 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-10T14:24:14Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */

== Site introduction ==
The information stated in the introduction is '''wrong''' there were only '''265''' G11s ever made, so the mentioned '''1000''' units were never produced. Unless you have a better source than first hand information I would think the mentioned 1000 are misleading. In addition to that it was not only developed in the 80s it was developed from 1968 to 1990 and only the last K2 and K2/3 had 45 round magazines every other had 50 rounds --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 07:50, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:And you have first hand knowledge...How, exactly? I'm not saying you don't, but I'm not going to accept you saying that without explanation. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:I have indeed, lets say there were some very rare occasions in the past where one was able to get his hands on these information and I was lucky :) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:31, 1 December 2012 (EST)
I do know that there is at least one person who tried out a G11 on HKPro. I'll have to drop them a line and see if they have any interesting information.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 19:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
: You should ask for G3k he knows it for sure --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:Where do you guys even got this number 1000? This number never even was considered as an initial purchase number. The only time I read something like that was somewhere where someone wrote some crap about a contianer with 1000 G11s stolen by some Nazis in England or so. And if ask someone on HKPro ask some one who not just tried it out, only trying somethink doesn't qualify in development history. In other words you can't ask the guys and girls who tested the ACR model during the ACR-Tests for production numbers, because they were not part of deleopment or production but testing for the US Army so they could answer you questions like how it shoots and how you get recruited for testing ( some of the testers even had only shot the M16 before the ACR). Or ask me for production numbers of the Gebirgsjäger, I have tired it out ( and can say that is a brutal little thing) but I have no idea who produced it, how many were ever produced or wich units in detail got these in wich number ( of course I can look some of this up in books but thats not the piont here). --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 06:38, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::Can both sides cite their sources? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:47, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::: Heckler und Koch Oberndorf --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 10:40, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::You can't really just say "Heckler & Koch" and expect to be taken on faith. The number that you can find widely stated online is that there were about a thousand made (for example Wikipedia) although this number may be total bollocks and based on the same lie that everyone is copying. If you have actual information, which I would assume you do as you came up with the bizarrely specific number of 265, then that would make you seemingly the only person on the internet that knows so could you provide some more information as to how you know this or perhaps a corroborating source. For my own part, I would say that only 265 sounds like too few a number considering where the G11 got to in its development. I'm lumping together the K1s K2s and K3s together on this one, is the 265 you state for a specific variant or all together? Numbers that I know of for sure, are that there were at least 15 or so prototype iterations before the K1 (that may have had more than one example of each iteration), 20 that were sold to the US (K3 variant I believe, the one with the narrower rubber but pad) and there is also one in the UK Defence Academy in Shrivenham which is a K1 (along with examples of the other 3 ACR candidates, despite the fact that this weapons was not the type that was tested. A K1 is also seen in "promotional" material for the ACR tests before the tests began, so could be the same gun). I have also seen a photo of a K1 with a serial number in the 80s implying that there were at least this many K1s made, and everything I have seen implied that the K2 was the more common variant, so 265 total sounds too low to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I said HKO wich means I'm referring to '''the''' source in '''Oberndorf''' as you know there is where the magic happens, what should I say more? if you don't believe me ok go ahead. Besides that the prototypes were numbered from 0 to 265, therefore ok I was wrong the number has to be 266 or 267 when you want to take into account that prototype number 64 was built two times and want to count prototype number 0 as a full prototype weapon wich in fact it wasn't. EDIT: I have to say Wikipedia tends to lie a lot when it comes to stuff where not that much people have knowledge about try it out with Zuse's Z1 all you will find is crap ( except there now was one who corrected the wrong stuff). The K2 was the most rare prototype version besides the first testfixtures and the tankversion.--[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:20, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::"if you don't believe me ok go ahead." Ok, we won't. You expect us to take info made in anonymous comments on faith?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 12:10, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: I have mentioned my source so I guess faith doesn't apply here that much, anonymity applies very well but I guess most here are more or less anonymous. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::So your source is an HK employee at Oberndorf? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:41, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::: More or less it is the archive itself --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 15:58, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::Can you find anything online or in a book to corroborate that? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: The most complete book about the G11 is the book "Die G11-Story - Die Entwicklungsgeschichte einer High-Tech-Waffe"(by Wolfgang Seel in german) there you will find most of the things I have said, in addition to that you find some usefull information in th 50th anniversary book. In case you would like to have a guy more close to HK you could ask G3kurz on HKPro about the G11/ACR. HKPro is the only reliable online source in english if it comes to HK and especially G11, but I have to say you even mostly see crap written in german forums and websites. At the bottom of the page you can see a pic that I uploaded it shows the K1 as testen by the Bundeswehr, you wont find a pic of that online. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:23, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: Here is an online source for the production numbers: http://www.whq-forum.de/invisionboard/lofiversion/index.php?t12226.html he just emailed HK --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:30, 3 December 2012 (EST)

The G11 didn't just entered the Phase III of the ACR-Programm it entered at the beginning of the programm in 1982. You can find that info in the books I mentioned above and in the military documentation. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 09:24, 10 December 2012 (EST)

The project was never cancelled it was comleted successfully in 1991 and in 1992 the G11 was adopted by the Bundewehr, therefore '''G'''11 (official designation Gewehr 11) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 09:24, 10 December 2012 (EST)

==HKPRO thread==
I am starting a Thread on HKPro to see if what changes if needed are to be made to this page. Basically my plan is to get feedback on the information we have and then edit as needed. Who knows maybe we can usser in an era of co-operation between the IMFDB and the greater internet firearms community.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 18:37, 2 December 2012 (EST)

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/169921-g11-information-wanted.html

The link doesn't work when I click on it.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 20:07, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) ==
The current picture used to show a G11K1 actually shows some kind of transition from K1 to K2.
The forearm is from a K1, reciever and buttstock are from a K2, you can tell by the different trigger guard and the raised lines for for the extra magazines ports/wells. Does some one know where this picture is from? As far as I know the K1 and K2 bodies aren't compatible. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:37, 30 November 2012 (EST)
:To me this looks like a photoshop of the back end of a K2 with the front end of a K1. What are the "raised lines" you are referring to, do you mean the magazine catch, as this was different between the two models I think. There is also that bizarre lump above the magazine in front of the carry handle that has no business being there on either a K1 or K2, making it a bad photo-shop. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:: These "lumps" were present on most of the ACR and K1 models and even returned scaled down to a minimum on K2s, I wont call it bad photoshop because why should one shop an image like this when he already had a pic of an ACR/K1? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:26, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::If that lump was on the K1s (not sure we are talking about the same thing as I have never seen it on another image of any variant) then maybe it isn't bad photoshop, but it is definitely photoshop. The source is from [http://gunco-book.tripod.com/Index.htm Small Arms Illustrated], specifically [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qflUzEZHwes/TIKOjYbjN6I/AAAAAAAAAJY/IAzaMf0LIMU/s1600/SmallArms107.jpg this] image from a previous edition (the current edition on the site is lower res, but this is the previous larger size image that both the current K1 and K2 images were taken from). As usefull as this site is for ID'ing guns it very commonly uses photoshop to build up images of guns from other variants, which appears to be the case here. You can tell by the same pattern of wear on the gun, errant pixels in the same place, and the fact that there is a colour hue difference between the front and back half of the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I had identified the lump as the thing above the mag well that most people would think it is the magrelease (I hope this is the one you talked about). There are also color differences between the parts of the shown K2, I think it would be also possible that a) there was a version where the middle housing and the buttstock were already K2 spec but lacking a finished K2 handguard or b) it was a ergonomic test mockup or somethink in between with a bit of both. In case it is one of the latter it would be interesting to know where they got this pic from. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::::The lump I was talking about was the square part on the front of the sight. Is this what you are saying is the overpressure valve? Also where is the magazine catch? I think you are over thinking the origin of the K1 image on that site I linked to, photoshop is commonly used on there and if you compare the K1 and K2 images you can see that they appear to use the exact same photo of the receiver with different handguards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:15, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: That lump is the lump I thought you are talking about. The overpressure valve is the thing coming out of the bottom of the buttstock and the magazine release is the button below the eyepiece on top of the buttstock. The magazine catch is a part of the system inside the housing, you wont be able to release it as long as the system is moving because it wont be in place. Regarding the site, possibly I do but it doesn't make much sense to me that they obviously had a clear orthographic shot of a K1 handguard without having one of a complete gun or having one and shopping stuff like this. In case that the ones they show there are mock ups or ergonomic test models, you should notice that they even added wear to these and as long as the wear would be produced by some kind of protocol the wear could seem the same. Possibly I am really wrong here and just smell some exciting new info 8) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:49, 8 December 2012 (EST)
::: I have uploaded a pic showing a G11K1 as tested by the Bundeswehr, you can see it still has the first version overpressure valve, later K1s had the newer version like the ACRs and K2s and a few had a removable carrying handle like the K2. [[File:G11K1-TE.jpg|200px|thumb|none|G11K1]]
::::: I have to correct myself I just saw that the tested ACRs had the same overpressure valve as the shown K1 --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::Nice pic, will make this the standard one for the K1. Do you have any pics of similar quality of the K2 variant? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::: I will look through my stuff there should be one but can't give a guarentee --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 03:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)
:::::: The only more or less orthographic K2 pic I have is with a sling attached --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 09:25, 8 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Far Cry 3

2012-12-09T23:44:54Z

DAN11: /* MP5 rear sight */

== Single players weapons ==
Some of the weapons listed here, do not appear in single player campaign, or maybe are completely removed from the final game, this should be noted no? Among them the desert eagle, Vector , spas-12, galil, hk416, there is however a heavy sniper rifle used during one mission to cover the characters friend, I couldn't identify it only the barrel and the scope is seen.

Yaay, Frank and his amazing collection of exploding rust will ride again. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:From what I saw in the demo at E3 (I watched Microsoft's press conference live yesterday), it looks like this game will be set on an island like the earlier games in the series. Frankly I'm surprised no one had beat me to the punch and made a page for the game already. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:59, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I'd heard of it being in development, but I wasn't aware there was any actual footage of weapons in it yet. I guess I'll have to start saving for another PC and set aside 40 or so hours to screencap it like last time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:05, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Here's an "insane" walkthrough video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXHmWRziHA [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:26, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Waaaaaaiiiit a minute...I see a crashed Zero, ancient ruins, and they're talking about this island's "dark secret." Looks like this is going to be an ''actual'' sequel to ''Far Cry''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:39, 8 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Loved the first game, so I hope it will awesome. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK ==

The AK has a muzzlebrake, but the mag looks like a 7.62mm mag instead of the straighter 5.45mm mag. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:32, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:If you watch the video, you'll notice that all the features of the weapon except the magazine match the AK-74 (handguard & stock, receiver cover, muzzle brake, front sight assembly), with the magazine being the only part that doesn't match. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

Dang DinoHunter2! You did '''EXACTLY''' what I was going to do, I was considering changing it to a AK-103 like half a hour ago and the description change is the same as I was thinking, good job! :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:23, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:You're welcome Mr. Wolf :D - [[User:DinoHunter2|DinoHunter2]] 18:18, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol ==

It's a modern 1911 with a under-barrel rail. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:21, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:Never mind, I was too slow. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

YEY! Finally a Kimber in a game! I'm looking forward to this game regardless now :D --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:47, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

[[File:FC3KIMBLER2.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A Kimber Warrior in ''Far Cry 3'']]

Heres an interesting thing, if you look at this wallpaper [http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/ncsa/FarCry3/wallpapers/fc3-wallpaper-1920x1200.jpg] you will see a guy with a Glock, however, you can see a HAMMER if you zoom in! uh oh. At least he has good trigger discipline. :) -m82a1

== SVD? ==

An alternate demo walkthrough features what looks to be an SVD or one of its derivatives. Anyone care to give this video a look? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_9fsXPNs34

On a side note, the same video confirms the M67 in game. The throwing animation is actually kinda cool, as you see the spoon being released before the grenade is thrown.

*Looks like an actual Dragunov, it's got that bend in the safety lever that the Romak doesn't have, and it looks like they've given it the right handguard and no X stamping on the magazine this time. Of course it's a lefty Dragonuv, but I think that's to be expected. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:20, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
::Maybe it's the Far Cry 2 model with a new texture, that might explain why it's a lefty gun, hope that changes in the final game, the other guns are righty guns. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:51, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, in both that video and the one I posted above, the Blackhawk helicopter the player hijacks is shot down by what appears to be some kind of rocket launcher. You can't see the guy firing it clearly, and I only saw a split-second glimpse of the rocket milliseconds before it strikes the aircraft, but I think it's possibly an [[RPG-7]] or Type 69. I don't want to add it to the page until more concrete proof is found though. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:32, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Here is a image of the rocket launcher:
[[File:FC3RL.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] 14:38, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
:Definitely a RPG-7/Type 69, most likely a RPG-7. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:42, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== Will brass fly left still? ==

I'm wondering if these guns will be like the previous game and have the brass eject left [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:49, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

*Well, so far the AK and Kimber look like they're right-handed and only the SVD looks like it's a lefty model. Now, interestingly, I'd heard that the developers had seen our ''Far Cry 2'' page (some podcast or other had a guy saying some guy on the team, I think the director, had pointed him to it) and it's actually looking like they took note: for example, they've fixed the handguard of the SVD, the magazine, the scope now fills the screen to avoid that issue where the area outside the scope was zoomed in too, the reticle now has the numbers on it (though it's missing the lower line of the rangefinder and the 1.7, and has one too many chevrons), and he holds it at the hip like the stock's under his arm rather than inserted partway into his shoulder. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Now if only Infinity Ward and Treyarch would follow that lead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:45, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Recent news ==

I've heard from the UK Official PS3 Magazine that the game world is supposedly going to be ten times the size of the world in ''Far Cry 2''. To be honest, this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence; one of the biggest problems with ''FC2'' was the size of the world seemed to have been decided in some board meeting before they had a single idea down as to what they were going to put in all that space. The result was a game that had you going five miles from A to B simply because they wanted you to see all the effort they'd put into the huge map. It can be done (see ''Just Cause 2'') but it makes me nervous hearing they're on "look at how big our map is" rather than "we have so many great ideas the map has to be at least this big." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:08, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Ten times the size? I lost intrest in Far Cry 2 because the game is not an FPS, is a driving game with peolpe trying to kill you at the checkpoints! OK, I'm exagerating but it's way to big.--[[User:MAndolin|MAndolin]] 08:35, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

But on the flip side, bigger maps can mean more space for more content. It's not the size of the maps that is the problem, it's what they use the size for. Far Cry 2, spatially, I thought was lovely. The driving and auto-attack enemies got old, but there's nothing about the space that seemed to be a problem. There was always somewhere to go and something to do. If they made travel more risky/interesting, and enemies didn't auto-attack you at every turn... it would make it more interesting. Furthermore, other methods of travel... such as helicopters, planes, etc. would do a world of good. Also, they need to focus on the end game more... after you've finished up the quests, that's it. There needs to be more repeatable content. Houses need to be more dynamic and upgradeable, hopefully with actual windows... not just instances you enter. That, and they need to expand more on the "hunt" and stealth aspect. It was awesome in Far Cry 2 just picking apart groups of enemies, but sucked because they -automatically- knew where you were 90% of the time... negating all stealth. It seems this has been vastly improved in the little footage we've seen, and the inventory system seems to be expanded as well. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:22, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:Naw, the problem as I see it was in FC2 before they did ''anything'' they had that 50 square km number set in stone. This led to the problem of just having normal-sized quests with waypoints that were ridiculously far apart from one another; the result was basically a 10 hour game which had another 20 hours of driving and random fights thrown on top. Not that there was anything wrong with the combat mechanics, but one key point of an open-world game is you should be able to choose how you address a situation; always having the enemies set to max aggression / kill you got wearying. A good example of a different approach would be the checkpoint halfway through Cordon in ''Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl''; there, you could shoot everyone. Or you could sneak down an anomaly-filled corridor nearby and bypass it. Or risk radiation and wild animals to use a gap in the fence way down the railway track in the other direction. Or you could put your gun away and bribe the officer to let you pass. There were consequences to all of these; for example, if you killed them all you'd then have to repel a large group of Bandits by yourself rather than the guys at the checkpoint attacking them when they got close.

:Like I said, the trouble in FC2 was that number was how big they wanted it to be, not "it can't possibly be smaller than this, because we have so many ideas to fill it up with." That plus the landscape felt annoyingly static and "dead" with no dangerous animals and no people outside fixed camps. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:33, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::I totally agree, I was also annoyed by that. I mean it would have been cool if you were stalking at night and you attacked by a pack of hyenas or that there was actually some '''people''' instead of just psychotic brigands. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:10, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:I read somewhere that the player's name is Jason Brody, if anyone wants to use that information --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:05, 23 December 2011 (CST)

The source of these problems is the fact that FC2 and FC3 is are console-centric games. And consoles are running on, by PC gaming standards, hopelessly outdated hardware (circa 2005). The relative lack of RAM and processing power means that open-world games like these are seriously held back; changes to the world are rarely permanent, and it's very difficult for the console to remember what you've done (such as items stored) in locations that aren't fixed. Sometimes it's just a matter of scope and dedication. [[Boiling Point: Road to Hell]] was only on a 25 x 25 km map, but featured drivable vehicles of all kinds (in which you could store almost any amount of items) such as boats, patrol ships, single-engine planes, and leisure/combat helicopters, factions that fought one another and treated you accordingly with respect to your reputation, upgradeable weapons that decayed at a realistic rate (you could fire 1000s of rounds and end up with a 10% chance of jamming), an RPG system that increased your skills with weaponry the more you used them and your body stats the more you ran or carried heavy stuff, and jungles filled with animals out for your blood or whom you could hunt to sell their corpses or parts to traders. By contrast, the STALKER series only got a functioning faction wars system starting with the second game, never had drivable vehicles, and had no upgrades or repairs for its weapons until the second game. The STALKER series did, however, have an A-Life system that tracked the presence and deaths of mutants and NPCs behind your back, even if you weren't in the area (something that has rarely appeared in other games, the only other example I know of being the X Universe series of space free-roam games, PC only). It's sad, really--there are more fans of console games than ever, but many don't realise just how gimped their games are compared to what could be accomplished on PCs running current hardware, much like how Crysis 2 was badly scaled back from the original. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I dunno, it strikes me more that FC2's problem was in how they approached map design and the lack of things to do. Just Cause 2 is also designed with consoles in mind, but it's more fun because it has a better interaction of game mechanics and more memorable characters. In FC2 if you took all of one faction leader's dialog and gave it to the other you'd find it hard to tell it was wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== New Trailer Out Today ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYPnDDr7sMk Here.] - What are your thoughts, guys? Obligatory dubstep for some reason, as a cinematic trailer it looks pretty awesome. -- Long Fallen 16:24, 15 February 2012 (CST)

This does look pretty good, but doesn't Vaas or whatever the bad guy's called use a standard M1911A1? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 05:50, 16 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah it appears so. Its definetly not the Kimber Warrior because it doesnt have the white grips, and appears to have a black or possibly blued finish -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 13:08, 20 February 2012 (CST)

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Oa8Q7RV78&feature=player_embedded Leaked trailer, showing actual gameplay!] -- Long Fallen 17:12, 20 February 2012 (CST)

== Most anticipated thing about FC3... ==

Most definitely the page Evil Tim is going to do for it. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 17:45, 15 February 2012 (CST)

Id like to second that. [[User:G36Ghost|G36Ghost]] 18:27, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

== New gameplay, New guns ==

If you look at this gameplay footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxTXv4SbEZ4&feature=related

You can see a couple new guns (A shotgun and what I think is a DShK machine gun), plus a grenade (Which looks like an M26) - [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 18:27, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun looks like it could be either a Mossberg 500 Mariner or a Remington 870 Marine Magnum, with a ribbed barrel and a accessory rail mounted ontop of the reciever. You get a good look at the ejection port at 4:37 of the video. What is interesting is, the sling is wrapped around the reciever despite it having full stock as the ingame icon shows.

Also in the video, if you pause really quickly at 0:07, the AK looks different. The wooden furniture looks more pale than in the E3 trailer, also the magazine is different in that there were vertical lines going up and down on the magazine in the E3 trailer but now the lines are going horizontal; a good shot of this is at 0:19 when the player reloads, look between the player's hand and the reciever of the gun and you'll see.

As for the DShK, I'm not sure but it looks like it to me. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 22:02, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun appears to be a Remington 870, the handguard is wrong for a Mossberg and the ejection port matches the Remington as well. As for the heavy machine gun, I'm going to say DShK as well. Saw a lot more of the customized AK-103 as well, as well as HE-Frag hand grenades, either M67's or M26's. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:25, 21 February 2012 (CST)

New trailer. Somewhat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGrWuw5CEgM&feature=plcp&context=C41236b0VDvjVQa1PpcFNiqixtTbtxFd1-Gkazt_wHZG5RBOCYPLk%3D

You can see a Vz.61 Skorpion at 1:36 and a blink-and-you-miss-it shot of some unknown gun at 1:47. A TDI Vector maybe? -- Long Fallen 18:42, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

Shows the barrel-end of a TDI Vector during the middle of a reload animation. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 19:23, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

I managed to get a screenshot of a gun at about 2:14, seriously hard to see though.

Check this out:

[http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/084/f/e/far_cry_3_unknown_gun_by_timaman-d4tveo7.png]

No idea what it could be, but it shows that at least one gun is on aftermarket ironsights. Lets hope they don't do a CoD Black Ops and put them on every smg and rifle in the game. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 10:40, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

-- My money's on the TDI Vector shown earlier in the video, check the spent brass... looks like .45 ACP to me. Definitely not an AR, that's what I thought at first. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:55, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

At the end of that video it shows a Type 10 flare gun as a preorder bonus. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:54, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

[http://www.gametrailers.com/video/teamplay-interview-far-cry-3/728785] New gameplay trailer, some new guns in there. Spotted a Makarov PM, PP-19 Bizon, some M4 variant, and what looks like an Ultimax 100. Also, another pre-order bonus offers a "skinned M700" (Remington 700 with camo probably, and some screenshots depict a SPAS-12, Mini-14, Remington 700, and a rather odd looking MP5 being used.
[http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_280646_thumb_wide620.jpg]
[http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_280649_thumb_wide620.jpg]
[http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/118/1188467/far-cry-3-20110817104323708_640w.jpg]
[http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/122/1222265/far-cry-3-20120404085727938_640w.jpg]

== Multiplayer gameplay New Weapons ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-jo-AX_7V4] --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 06:26, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

There's an icon of an MG that I'm unsure of at about 1:18. A KAC maybe? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 11:48, 14 April 2012 (CDT)
:I agree. Also, at 1:26... Makarov 6P9? [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 17:12, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

There's some new guns in the screenshots below. Not sure what that first LMG is, but in the second screenshot, that looks like a FAMAS G2. It doesn't seem to have the larger trigger guard though:
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/i403204-8/far-cry-3-multiplayer-far-cry-3-multiplayer.html#a375541

:The machine gun in the first image is a PKM with an RIS and a different muzzle break. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:54, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

:Has everyone forgotten about this page? There have been numerous weapons in the trailers after the last edit.--[[User:Speo16|Speo16]] ([[User talk:Speo16|talk]]) 16:07, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

== E3 has come, and with it comes more weapons ==

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731423

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/730867

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731397

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731100

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/730899 (kind of NSFW)

Nice variety of new weapons here. Don't know what that bolt action sniper rifle is in the first video however.

I was gonna put this down as a Daewoo K3 (or an M249) until I saw the STK Ultimax 100 Mk3. However it looked too big and had the stock so was not wanting to put it under either until someone else had had a look. Thanks -

[[File:6P9andMKG.jpg]]

Same video there's also a flame thrower as a secondary weapon. Doesn't look much like the LPO-50 or whatever from FC2 - 1:05

During the gameplay there seems to be an underslung grenade launcher on the SIG, I was just wondering if anyone could ID this. It could be the proper SIG 5040/5140 or perhaps an M203 if they are wanting it for other weapons and just reuse the model

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731513

A better look at the flamethrower, and an icon for a submachine gun that looks like a M4 Spectre at the 4:28 mark.

Could be an M4A1 or a HK416, looks too short to be a standard M4A1

[[File:M4A1side.jpg]]

It looks to have a monolithic-style upper receiver; notice how there's no seam where the receiver becomes the handguard. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:21, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

There are a few new trailers that have just been released I noticed quite a few new weapons in them. Definitely worth a look.

==Walkthrough==

The walkthrough is up on Game Anyone, as expected. Unlike the Max Payne 3 and Black Ops II leaks, the game has actually been released in Europe as far as I know and thus it's not against the rules to post screencaps or information. So far it appears that a .44 Magnum revolver is in the game, though I can't tell which one. There's also a SOCOM 16, correctly semi-auto. The Remington is listed as a 700. The flare gun is back, with a gold finish, and they added a recurve bow that can use explosive and flaming arrows. The flamethrower is back, but it looks like a fictional design. The starting shotgun purports to be a Baikal MP-133 (as the M133), though I can't tell if it's wrong. The in-game guidebook provides background on all weapons and sometimes justification for their purpose; the Kimbers were purchased to an exact specification for a private army, and Vaas (the villain) bought the Baikals in bulk. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:05, 29 November 2012 (EST)

It doesn't appear that the Makarov comes standard with the silencer; it's still got the first part attached to the gun, but you need to purchase the second part as an upgrade. Odd, but it does skip over the problem some games have where an addon turns the gun into a unique variant instead of just attaching something. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:47, 29 November 2012 (EST)

:It certainly isn't out in the UK yet (release is the 30th), so I'd hold your horses if I were you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:38, 29 November 2012 (EST)
:: Checked again. November 29th (today) is the Australian release date. Unfortunately, it'll probably take several years for anyone in Australia to save enough money to purchase a copy. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 19:32, 29 November 2012 (EST)

:::Well, I'm downloading my copy now despite Norton Antivirus' apparent dislike of Ubisoft's downloader, so we'll see. Though given video upload and encoding times, I doubt you'd get a release-day upload of a long game like this without either haxing being involved or the player having no clue what they're doing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:38, 30 November 2012 (EST)

::::I can tell you the flamethrower is still an LPO-50, they've just dressed it up; if you look at it on the pause menu you can see the ignitor cluster at the muzzle, the pistol grip, and the fuel tank selector. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:01, 30 November 2012 (EST)

== Weapons from the Wiki ==
These are pictures from the game's Wikia Page. I can't figure out how to post them on the main page, I can't remember how to post the pictures themselves. A lot of weapons posted on this page appear to be missing from the Wikia page but that's probably due to lack of updates. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 00:06, 30 November 2012 (EST)

'''Pistols'''

1911: The Kimber .45 in the game. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/1/16/Kimber_Warrior.jpg

.44 Magnum: Appears to be some kind of revolver, sorry for the bad quality. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/c/c1/Untitled5.png

There doesn't seem to be a page for the Desert Eagle.

'''Assault Rifles'''

P416: The HK 416 that appears ingame. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/d/d8/Untitled6.png

MS16: A modern version of a M1 Garand with a hideous camo job and the cocking handle appears to be on the wrong side or Jason is using one built for left handed people. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/0/0c/FarCry3_M1Garand.jpg

'''Sniper Rifles'''

M-700: A (possible) Remington 700 in game. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/8/85/Remington_M700.jpg

:I like how you refer to the [[Springfield Armory M1A|M1A]] as a modernized M1 Garand. You could just say M14. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:39, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I apologize about that. I wrote this section at 1 am where I'm at and I was very tired. I didn't see the magazine behind the player's hand and the Far Cry Wikia said that weapon was a Garand. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 09:20, 30 November 2012 (EST)

== Anyone else really disappointed in the lack of weapon details? ==

For a game with otherwise a ton of effort put into it, why are almost all magazines empty? Why is the bolt on the left side of several weapons? Why does the M1887 not seem to be cocked on empty reload? And so on ....

Most of this could been done in less than an hour had they actually tried. What work is that of a few magazine textures? Instead half of the weapons are now unusable. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 10:10, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Aw wait, the bolts are on the left side of the weapons?! Which one? Damn it, I thought the developers learned their lessons about that crap. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:50, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I think the bolt of the Dragunov is on the left, but i am not certain as my copy of the game has not arrived yet, but i have clearly seen the M1A has a left-sided bolt. Ironically, it is also one of few box-magazine weapons that actually has visible rounds in the magazine when reloading.

And bizarrely enough, the AK-103 seems to have visible rounds when taking the magazine out of the weapon, but not when inserting a new one. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 17:45, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Looking at all the caps we got now, it doesn't look like any of them have the charging handle on the left side [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:47, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Vaas is holding a Glock like gun with an external hammer and is missing the things in the front to take down the slide [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:25, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== Single players weapons ==
Some of the weapons listed here, do not appear in single player campaign, or maybe are completely removed from the final game, this should be noted no? Among them the desert eagle, Vector , spas-12, galil, hk416, there is however a heavy sniper rifle used during one mission to cover the characters friend, I couldn't identify it only the barrel and the scope is seen.

Yaay, Frank and his amazing collection of exploding rust will ride again. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:From what I saw in the demo at E3 (I watched Microsoft's press conference live yesterday), it looks like this game will be set on an island like the earlier games in the series. Frankly I'm surprised no one had beat me to the punch and made a page for the game already. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:59, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I'd heard of it being in development, but I wasn't aware there was any actual footage of weapons in it yet. I guess I'll have to start saving for another PC and set aside 40 or so hours to screencap it like last time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:05, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Here's an "insane" walkthrough video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXHmWRziHA [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:26, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Waaaaaaiiiit a minute...I see a crashed Zero, ancient ruins, and they're talking about this island's "dark secret." Looks like this is going to be an ''actual'' sequel to ''Far Cry''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:39, 8 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Loved the first game, so I hope it will awesome. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK ==

The AK has a muzzlebrake, but the mag looks like a 7.62mm mag instead of the straighter 5.45mm mag. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:32, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:If you watch the video, you'll notice that all the features of the weapon except the magazine match the AK-74 (handguard & stock, receiver cover, muzzle brake, front sight assembly), with the magazine being the only part that doesn't match. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

Dang DinoHunter2! You did '''EXACTLY''' what I was going to do, I was considering changing it to a AK-103 like half a hour ago and the description change is the same as I was thinking, good job! :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:23, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:You're welcome Mr. Wolf :D - [[User:DinoHunter2|DinoHunter2]] 18:18, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol ==

It's a modern 1911 with a under-barrel rail. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:21, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:Never mind, I was too slow. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

YEY! Finally a Kimber in a game! I'm looking forward to this game regardless now :D --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:47, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

[[File:FC3KIMBLER2.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A Kimber Warrior in ''Far Cry 3'']]

Heres an interesting thing, if you look at this wallpaper [http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/ncsa/FarCry3/wallpapers/fc3-wallpaper-1920x1200.jpg] you will see a guy with a Glock, however, you can see a HAMMER if you zoom in! uh oh. At least he has good trigger discipline. :) -m82a1

== SVD? ==

An alternate demo walkthrough features what looks to be an SVD or one of its derivatives. Anyone care to give this video a look? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_9fsXPNs34

On a side note, the same video confirms the M67 in game. The throwing animation is actually kinda cool, as you see the spoon being released before the grenade is thrown.

*Looks like an actual Dragunov, it's got that bend in the safety lever that the Romak doesn't have, and it looks like they've given it the right handguard and no X stamping on the magazine this time. Of course it's a lefty Dragonuv, but I think that's to be expected. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:20, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
::Maybe it's the Far Cry 2 model with a new texture, that might explain why it's a lefty gun, hope that changes in the final game, the other guns are righty guns. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:51, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, in both that video and the one I posted above, the Blackhawk helicopter the player hijacks is shot down by what appears to be some kind of rocket launcher. You can't see the guy firing it clearly, and I only saw a split-second glimpse of the rocket milliseconds before it strikes the aircraft, but I think it's possibly an [[RPG-7]] or Type 69. I don't want to add it to the page until more concrete proof is found though. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:32, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Here is a image of the rocket launcher:
[[File:FC3RL.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] 14:38, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
:Definitely a RPG-7/Type 69, most likely a RPG-7. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:42, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== Will brass fly left still? ==

I'm wondering if these guns will be like the previous game and have the brass eject left [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:49, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

*Well, so far the AK and Kimber look like they're right-handed and only the SVD looks like it's a lefty model. Now, interestingly, I'd heard that the developers had seen our ''Far Cry 2'' page (some podcast or other had a guy saying some guy on the team, I think the director, had pointed him to it) and it's actually looking like they took note: for example, they've fixed the handguard of the SVD, the magazine, the scope now fills the screen to avoid that issue where the area outside the scope was zoomed in too, the reticle now has the numbers on it (though it's missing the lower line of the rangefinder and the 1.7, and has one too many chevrons), and he holds it at the hip like the stock's under his arm rather than inserted partway into his shoulder. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Now if only Infinity Ward and Treyarch would follow that lead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:45, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Recent news ==

I've heard from the UK Official PS3 Magazine that the game world is supposedly going to be ten times the size of the world in ''Far Cry 2''. To be honest, this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence; one of the biggest problems with ''FC2'' was the size of the world seemed to have been decided in some board meeting before they had a single idea down as to what they were going to put in all that space. The result was a game that had you going five miles from A to B simply because they wanted you to see all the effort they'd put into the huge map. It can be done (see ''Just Cause 2'') but it makes me nervous hearing they're on "look at how big our map is" rather than "we have so many great ideas the map has to be at least this big." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:08, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Ten times the size? I lost intrest in Far Cry 2 because the game is not an FPS, is a driving game with peolpe trying to kill you at the checkpoints! OK, I'm exagerating but it's way to big.--[[User:MAndolin|MAndolin]] 08:35, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

But on the flip side, bigger maps can mean more space for more content. It's not the size of the maps that is the problem, it's what they use the size for. Far Cry 2, spatially, I thought was lovely. The driving and auto-attack enemies got old, but there's nothing about the space that seemed to be a problem. There was always somewhere to go and something to do. If they made travel more risky/interesting, and enemies didn't auto-attack you at every turn... it would make it more interesting. Furthermore, other methods of travel... such as helicopters, planes, etc. would do a world of good. Also, they need to focus on the end game more... after you've finished up the quests, that's it. There needs to be more repeatable content. Houses need to be more dynamic and upgradeable, hopefully with actual windows... not just instances you enter. That, and they need to expand more on the "hunt" and stealth aspect. It was awesome in Far Cry 2 just picking apart groups of enemies, but sucked because they -automatically- knew where you were 90% of the time... negating all stealth. It seems this has been vastly improved in the little footage we've seen, and the inventory system seems to be expanded as well. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:22, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:Naw, the problem as I see it was in FC2 before they did ''anything'' they had that 50 square km number set in stone. This led to the problem of just having normal-sized quests with waypoints that were ridiculously far apart from one another; the result was basically a 10 hour game which had another 20 hours of driving and random fights thrown on top. Not that there was anything wrong with the combat mechanics, but one key point of an open-world game is you should be able to choose how you address a situation; always having the enemies set to max aggression / kill you got wearying. A good example of a different approach would be the checkpoint halfway through Cordon in ''Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl''; there, you could shoot everyone. Or you could sneak down an anomaly-filled corridor nearby and bypass it. Or risk radiation and wild animals to use a gap in the fence way down the railway track in the other direction. Or you could put your gun away and bribe the officer to let you pass. There were consequences to all of these; for example, if you killed them all you'd then have to repel a large group of Bandits by yourself rather than the guys at the checkpoint attacking them when they got close.

:Like I said, the trouble in FC2 was that number was how big they wanted it to be, not "it can't possibly be smaller than this, because we have so many ideas to fill it up with." That plus the landscape felt annoyingly static and "dead" with no dangerous animals and no people outside fixed camps. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:33, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::I totally agree, I was also annoyed by that. I mean it would have been cool if you were stalking at night and you attacked by a pack of hyenas or that there was actually some '''people''' instead of just psychotic brigands. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:10, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:I read somewhere that the player's name is Jason Brody, if anyone wants to use that information --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:05, 23 December 2011 (CST)

The source of these problems is the fact that FC2 and FC3 is are console-centric games. And consoles are running on, by PC gaming standards, hopelessly outdated hardware (circa 2005). The relative lack of RAM and processing power means that open-world games like these are seriously held back; changes to the world are rarely permanent, and it's very difficult for the console to remember what you've done (such as items stored) in locations that aren't fixed. Sometimes it's just a matter of scope and dedication. [[Boiling Point: Road to Hell]] was only on a 25 x 25 km map, but featured drivable vehicles of all kinds (in which you could store almost any amount of items) such as boats, patrol ships, single-engine planes, and leisure/combat helicopters, factions that fought one another and treated you accordingly with respect to your reputation, upgradeable weapons that decayed at a realistic rate (you could fire 1000s of rounds and end up with a 10% chance of jamming), an RPG system that increased your skills with weaponry the more you used them and your body stats the more you ran or carried heavy stuff, and jungles filled with animals out for your blood or whom you could hunt to sell their corpses or parts to traders. By contrast, the STALKER series only got a functioning faction wars system starting with the second game, never had drivable vehicles, and had no upgrades or repairs for its weapons until the second game. The STALKER series did, however, have an A-Life system that tracked the presence and deaths of mutants and NPCs behind your back, even if you weren't in the area (something that has rarely appeared in other games, the only other example I know of being the X Universe series of space free-roam games, PC only). It's sad, really--there are more fans of console games than ever, but many don't realise just how gimped their games are compared to what could be accomplished on PCs running current hardware, much like how Crysis 2 was badly scaled back from the original. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I dunno, it strikes me more that FC2's problem was in how they approached map design and the lack of things to do. Just Cause 2 is also designed with consoles in mind, but it's more fun because it has a better interaction of game mechanics and more memorable characters. In FC2 if you took all of one faction leader's dialog and gave it to the other you'd find it hard to tell it was wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== New Trailer Out Today ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYPnDDr7sMk Here.] - What are your thoughts, guys? Obligatory dubstep for some reason, as a cinematic trailer it looks pretty awesome. -- Long Fallen 16:24, 15 February 2012 (CST)

This does look pretty good, but doesn't Vaas or whatever the bad guy's called use a standard M1911A1? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 05:50, 16 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah it appears so. Its definetly not the Kimber Warrior because it doesnt have the white grips, and appears to have a black or possibly blued finish -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 13:08, 20 February 2012 (CST)

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Oa8Q7RV78&feature=player_embedded Leaked trailer, showing actual gameplay!] -- Long Fallen 17:12, 20 February 2012 (CST)

== Most anticipated thing about FC3... ==

Most definitely the page Evil Tim is going to do for it. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 17:45, 15 February 2012 (CST)

Id like to second that. [[User:G36Ghost|G36Ghost]] 18:27, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

== New gameplay, New guns ==

If you look at this gameplay footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxTXv4SbEZ4&feature=related

You can see a couple new guns (A shotgun and what I think is a DShK machine gun), plus a grenade (Which looks like an M26) - [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 18:27, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun looks like it could be either a Mossberg 500 Mariner or a Remington 870 Marine Magnum, with a ribbed barrel and a accessory rail mounted ontop of the reciever. You get a good look at the ejection port at 4:37 of the video. What is interesting is, the sling is wrapped around the reciever despite it having full stock as the ingame icon shows.

Also in the video, if you pause really quickly at 0:07, the AK looks different. The wooden furniture looks more pale than in the E3 trailer, also the magazine is different in that there were vertical lines going up and down on the magazine in the E3 trailer but now the lines are going horizontal; a good shot of this is at 0:19 when the player reloads, look between the player's hand and the reciever of the gun and you'll see.

As for the DShK, I'm not sure but it looks like it to me. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 22:02, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun appears to be a Remington 870, the handguard is wrong for a Mossberg and the ejection port matches the Remington as well. As for the heavy machine gun, I'm going to say DShK as well. Saw a lot more of the customized AK-103 as well, as well as HE-Frag hand grenades, either M67's or M26's. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:25, 21 February 2012 (CST)

New trailer. Somewhat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGrWuw5CEgM&feature=plcp&context=C41236b0VDvjVQa1PpcFNiqixtTbtxFd1-Gkazt_wHZG5RBOCYPLk%3D

You can see a Vz.61 Skorpion at 1:36 and a blink-and-you-miss-it shot of some unknown gun at 1:47. A TDI Vector maybe? -- Long Fallen 18:42, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

Shows the barrel-end of a TDI Vector during the middle of a reload animation. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 19:23, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

I managed to get a screenshot of a gun at about 2:14, seriously hard to see though.

Check this out:

[http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/084/f/e/far_cry_3_unknown_gun_by_timaman-d4tveo7.png]

No idea what it could be, but it shows that at least one gun is on aftermarket ironsights. Lets hope they don't do a CoD Black Ops and put them on every smg and rifle in the game. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 10:40, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

-- My money's on the TDI Vector shown earlier in the video, check the spent brass... looks like .45 ACP to me. Definitely not an AR, that's what I thought at first. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:55, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

At the end of that video it shows a Type 10 flare gun as a preorder bonus. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:54, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

[http://www.gametrailers.com/video/teamplay-interview-far-cry-3/728785] New gameplay trailer, some new guns in there. Spotted a Makarov PM, PP-19 Bizon, some M4 variant, and what looks like an Ultimax 100. Also, another pre-order bonus offers a "skinned M700" (Remington 700 with camo probably, and some screenshots depict a SPAS-12, Mini-14, Remington 700, and a rather odd looking MP5 being used.
[http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_280646_thumb_wide620.jpg]
[http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_280649_thumb_wide620.jpg]
[http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/118/1188467/far-cry-3-20110817104323708_640w.jpg]
[http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/122/1222265/far-cry-3-20120404085727938_640w.jpg]

== Multiplayer gameplay New Weapons ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-jo-AX_7V4] --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 06:26, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

There's an icon of an MG that I'm unsure of at about 1:18. A KAC maybe? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 11:48, 14 April 2012 (CDT)
:I agree. Also, at 1:26... Makarov 6P9? [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 17:12, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

There's some new guns in the screenshots below. Not sure what that first LMG is, but in the second screenshot, that looks like a FAMAS G2. It doesn't seem to have the larger trigger guard though:
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/i403204-8/far-cry-3-multiplayer-far-cry-3-multiplayer.html#a375541

:The machine gun in the first image is a PKM with an RIS and a different muzzle break. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:54, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

:Has everyone forgotten about this page? There have been numerous weapons in the trailers after the last edit.--[[User:Speo16|Speo16]] ([[User talk:Speo16|talk]]) 16:07, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

== E3 has come, and with it comes more weapons ==

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731423

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/730867

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731397

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731100

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/730899 (kind of NSFW)

Nice variety of new weapons here. Don't know what that bolt action sniper rifle is in the first video however.

I was gonna put this down as a Daewoo K3 (or an M249) until I saw the STK Ultimax 100 Mk3. However it looked too big and had the stock so was not wanting to put it under either until someone else had had a look. Thanks -

[[File:6P9andMKG.jpg]]

Same video there's also a flame thrower as a secondary weapon. Doesn't look much like the LPO-50 or whatever from FC2 - 1:05

During the gameplay there seems to be an underslung grenade launcher on the SIG, I was just wondering if anyone could ID this. It could be the proper SIG 5040/5140 or perhaps an M203 if they are wanting it for other weapons and just reuse the model

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731513

A better look at the flamethrower, and an icon for a submachine gun that looks like a M4 Spectre at the 4:28 mark.

Could be an M4A1 or a HK416, looks too short to be a standard M4A1

[[File:M4A1side.jpg]]

It looks to have a monolithic-style upper receiver; notice how there's no seam where the receiver becomes the handguard. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:21, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

There are a few new trailers that have just been released I noticed quite a few new weapons in them. Definitely worth a look.

==Walkthrough==

The walkthrough is up on Game Anyone, as expected. Unlike the Max Payne 3 and Black Ops II leaks, the game has actually been released in Europe as far as I know and thus it's not against the rules to post screencaps or information. So far it appears that a .44 Magnum revolver is in the game, though I can't tell which one. There's also a SOCOM 16, correctly semi-auto. The Remington is listed as a 700. The flare gun is back, with a gold finish, and they added a recurve bow that can use explosive and flaming arrows. The flamethrower is back, but it looks like a fictional design. The starting shotgun purports to be a Baikal MP-133 (as the M133), though I can't tell if it's wrong. The in-game guidebook provides background on all weapons and sometimes justification for their purpose; the Kimbers were purchased to an exact specification for a private army, and Vaas (the villain) bought the Baikals in bulk. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:05, 29 November 2012 (EST)

It doesn't appear that the Makarov comes standard with the silencer; it's still got the first part attached to the gun, but you need to purchase the second part as an upgrade. Odd, but it does skip over the problem some games have where an addon turns the gun into a unique variant instead of just attaching something. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:47, 29 November 2012 (EST)

:It certainly isn't out in the UK yet (release is the 30th), so I'd hold your horses if I were you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:38, 29 November 2012 (EST)
:: Checked again. November 29th (today) is the Australian release date. Unfortunately, it'll probably take several years for anyone in Australia to save enough money to purchase a copy. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 19:32, 29 November 2012 (EST)

:::Well, I'm downloading my copy now despite Norton Antivirus' apparent dislike of Ubisoft's downloader, so we'll see. Though given video upload and encoding times, I doubt you'd get a release-day upload of a long game like this without either haxing being involved or the player having no clue what they're doing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:38, 30 November 2012 (EST)

::::I can tell you the flamethrower is still an LPO-50, they've just dressed it up; if you look at it on the pause menu you can see the ignitor cluster at the muzzle, the pistol grip, and the fuel tank selector. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:01, 30 November 2012 (EST)

== Weapons from the Wiki ==
These are pictures from the game's Wikia Page. I can't figure out how to post them on the main page, I can't remember how to post the pictures themselves. A lot of weapons posted on this page appear to be missing from the Wikia page but that's probably due to lack of updates. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 00:06, 30 November 2012 (EST)

'''Pistols'''

1911: The Kimber .45 in the game. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/1/16/Kimber_Warrior.jpg

.44 Magnum: Appears to be some kind of revolver, sorry for the bad quality. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/c/c1/Untitled5.png

There doesn't seem to be a page for the Desert Eagle.

'''Assault Rifles'''

P416: The HK 416 that appears ingame. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/d/d8/Untitled6.png

MS16: A modern version of a M1 Garand with a hideous camo job and the cocking handle appears to be on the wrong side or Jason is using one built for left handed people. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/0/0c/FarCry3_M1Garand.jpg

'''Sniper Rifles'''

M-700: A (possible) Remington 700 in game. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/8/85/Remington_M700.jpg

:I like how you refer to the [[Springfield Armory M1A|M1A]] as a modernized M1 Garand. You could just say M14. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:39, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I apologize about that. I wrote this section at 1 am where I'm at and I was very tired. I didn't see the magazine behind the player's hand and the Far Cry Wikia said that weapon was a Garand. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 09:20, 30 November 2012 (EST)

== Anyone else really disappointed in the lack of weapon details? ==

For a game with otherwise a ton of effort put into it, why are almost all magazines empty? Why is the bolt on the left side of several weapons? Why does the M1887 not seem to be cocked on empty reload? And so on ....

Most of this could been done in less than an hour had they actually tried. What work is that of a few magazine textures? Instead half of the weapons are now unusable. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 10:10, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Aw wait, the bolts are on the left side of the weapons?! Which one? Damn it, I thought the developers learned their lessons about that crap. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:50, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I think the bolt of the Dragunov is on the left, but i am not certain as my copy of the game has not arrived yet, but i have clearly seen the M1A has a left-sided bolt. Ironically, it is also one of few box-magazine weapons that actually has visible rounds in the magazine when reloading.

And bizarrely enough, the AK-103 seems to have visible rounds when taking the magazine out of the weapon, but not when inserting a new one. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 17:45, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Looking at all the caps we got now, it doesn't look like any of them have the charging handle on the left side [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:47, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Vaas is holding a Glock like gun with an external hammer and is missing the things in the front to take down the slide [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:25, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== MP5 Handguard ==

The vented handguard seen on the MP5 is an actual aftermarket upgrade made by Heckler & Koch for MP5s/HK94s and can be seen for sale [http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/MP5-HK94-Horizontal-Vented-Wide-Forearm-p1842.htm here]. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 15:51, 3 December 2012 (EST)

==416 might not be a 416==

I think we're jumping into conclusions that this is an HK416 solely on the face that the name of the rifle is called the P416. The rails and the lower receiver doesn't look like the 416 and there's actually an extra thing on the lower receiver that I've only see on POF AR-15s. Stocks, pistol grip and muzzle device aside, they look the same. Even the curved trigger guard is exactly the same. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:05, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Here's one to compare to the one in the game.

[[Image:POFAR-15.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]
[[Image:FC3-HK416-1.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]

:Yeah, that does look like it. The "extra thing" is a [http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/gun-parts-and-accessories/trigger-hammer-pins/m-p15-22-non-rotate-trigger-hammer-pins-gen-2-black.html KNS Precision non-rotating trigger hammer pin] set, it's a little bit of metal on each side that joins replacement trigger and hammer pins together and prevents them from rotating to decrease wear. They're also right with the title, the select fire version seems to be referred to as Patriot Ordinance Factory 416, POF416 or P416 (the semi-auto version being P415). Sneaky! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:30, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Yeah, more like this one [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 08:27, 4 December 2012 (EST)

[[Image:POF416-15.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]

:Well, that's a P415 (semi-auto), the ones I've uploaded are select-fire 416s according to POF's website. I've swapped the black one for a version with their NP3 silver finish on the upper and lower, but these also have the benefit of having the same handguard as the one in the game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:21, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Landmine handles ==

I think a possible, but slightly unlikely reason for the carrying handles could be that the handles could be used to remove landmines from the ground without the risk of detonating them, if the landmines need to be removed for whatever reason. - [[User:1morey]] December 4, 2012 11:49 AM (EST)
:Naw, usually mines are designed to be as difficult to remove as possible, since the whole point of a minefield is it is neither easy to pass without clearing or easy to clear without spending a really long time doing so and tying up a lot of resources. Ottawa-compliant mines either self-destruct or become inert over time. About the only use I could think of for them on a mine that small would be using them to apply pressure to the mine and twist it to push it into the ground without risking slipping and hitting the detonator, but then the easiest way to do that is to leave inserting the fuze and / or removing the mine's arming pin until after you've placed it. Also, the in-game mines are proximity fuzed, which means there's no way lifting handles would be of any use to anyone. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 12:03, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Not an M40A5 ==

The M-700 in the game is a '''Remington 700 Export''', not an M40A5. The M40A5 has a flash suppressor, McMillan stock and does not have a front sight. The in-game rifle has a HS stock with cheek rest and a plain barrel. It lacks the rear iron sight, tho.
[[Image:700 XP.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Remington 700 Export with Leupold Mark 4 scope and Harris LM-S bipod - .308 Winchester]]
[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 15:28, 7 December 2012 (EST)

:I was considering changing it (and have done), but the front end of the stock is rather bigger and squarer than the HS and looks more like it belongs on a McMillan, and I didn't realise there was a standard 700 variant with a detachable magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:30, 8 December 2012 (EST)

== MP5 rear sight ==

As far as I see this the rear sight is heavily influenced by the rear sights that you can find on the early MP5 prototypes, late HK STG CETME and G3 prototypes/early issue. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 05:19, 8 December 2012 (EST)
:Actually, this had been bugging me because I knew I'd seen a sight almost exactly like it in another game, then I realised:
:[[Image:Homefront-QBZ-New.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:That seems the most likely source of it, someone on the dev team probably either played the game or saw an image and figured it'd look good on their MP5. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:39, 9 December 2012 (EST)
:: I think you are right but still, the sight looks extremely like the ones on the prototypes ( the triangular shape of the walls) just the position was shifted from the middle of the housing to the rear where today you find drum sights. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 18:44, 9 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-09T00:49:31Z

DAN11: /* G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) */

== Site introduction ==
The information stated in the introduction is '''wrong''' there were only '''265''' G11s ever made, so the mentioned '''1000''' units were never produced. Unless you have a better source than first hand information I would think the mentioned 1000 are misleading. In addition to that it was not only developed in the 80s it was developed from 1968 to 1990 and only the last K2 and K2/3 had 45 round magazines every other had 50 rounds --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 07:50, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:And you have first hand knowledge...How, exactly? I'm not saying you don't, but I'm not going to accept you saying that without explanation. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:I have indeed, lets say there were some very rare occasions in the past where one was able to get his hands on these information and I was lucky :) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:31, 1 December 2012 (EST)
I do know that there is at least one person who tried out a G11 on HKPro. I'll have to drop them a line and see if they have any interesting information.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 19:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
: You should ask for G3k he knows it for sure --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:Where do you guys even got this number 1000? This number never even was considered as an initial purchase number. The only time I read something like that was somewhere where someone wrote some crap about a contianer with 1000 G11s stolen by some Nazis in England or so. And if ask someone on HKPro ask some one who not just tried it out, only trying somethink doesn't qualify in development history. In other words you can't ask the guys and girls who tested the ACR model during the ACR-Tests for production numbers, because they were not part of deleopment or production but testing for the US Army so they could answer you questions like how it shoots and how you get recruited for testing ( some of the testers even had only shot the M16 before the ACR). Or ask me for production numbers of the Gebirgsjäger, I have tired it out ( and can say that is a brutal little thing) but I have no idea who produced it, how many were ever produced or wich units in detail got these in wich number ( of course I can look some of this up in books but thats not the piont here). --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 06:38, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::Can both sides cite their sources? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:47, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::: Heckler und Koch Oberndorf --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 10:40, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::You can't really just say "Heckler & Koch" and expect to be taken on faith. The number that you can find widely stated online is that there were about a thousand made (for example Wikipedia) although this number may be total bollocks and based on the same lie that everyone is copying. If you have actual information, which I would assume you do as you came up with the bizarrely specific number of 265, then that would make you seemingly the only person on the internet that knows so could you provide some more information as to how you know this or perhaps a corroborating source. For my own part, I would say that only 265 sounds like too few a number considering where the G11 got to in its development. I'm lumping together the K1s K2s and K3s together on this one, is the 265 you state for a specific variant or all together? Numbers that I know of for sure, are that there were at least 15 or so prototype iterations before the K1 (that may have had more than one example of each iteration), 20 that were sold to the US (K3 variant I believe, the one with the narrower rubber but pad) and there is also one in the UK Defence Academy in Shrivenham which is a K1 (along with examples of the other 3 ACR candidates, despite the fact that this weapons was not the type that was tested. A K1 is also seen in "promotional" material for the ACR tests before the tests began, so could be the same gun). I have also seen a photo of a K1 with a serial number in the 80s implying that there were at least this many K1s made, and everything I have seen implied that the K2 was the more common variant, so 265 total sounds too low to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I said HKO wich means I'm referring to '''the''' source in '''Oberndorf''' as you know there is where the magic happens, what should I say more? if you don't believe me ok go ahead. Besides that the prototypes were numbered from 0 to 265, therefore ok I was wrong the number has to be 266 or 267 when you want to take into account that prototype number 64 was built two times and want to count prototype number 0 as a full prototype weapon wich in fact it wasn't. EDIT: I have to say Wikipedia tends to lie a lot when it comes to stuff where not that much people have knowledge about try it out with Zuse's Z1 all you will find is crap ( except there now was one who corrected the wrong stuff). The K2 was the most rare prototype version besides the first testfixtures and the tankversion.--[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:20, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::"if you don't believe me ok go ahead." Ok, we won't. You expect us to take info made in anonymous comments on faith?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 12:10, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: I have mentioned my source so I guess faith doesn't apply here that much, anonymity applies very well but I guess most here are more or less anonymous. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::So your source is an HK employee at Oberndorf? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:41, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::: More or less it is the archive itself --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 15:58, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::Can you find anything online or in a book to corroborate that? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: The most complete book about the G11 is the book "Die G11-Story - Die Entwicklungsgeschichte einer High-Tech-Waffe"(by Wolfgang Seel in german) there you will find most of the things I have said, in addition to that you find some usefull information in th 50th anniversary book. In case you would like to have a guy more close to HK you could ask G3kurz on HKPro about the G11/ACR. HKPro is the only reliable online source in english if it comes to HK and especially G11, but I have to say you even mostly see crap written in german forums and websites. At the bottom of the page you can see a pic that I uploaded it shows the K1 as testen by the Bundeswehr, you wont find a pic of that online. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:23, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: Here is an online source for the production numbers: http://www.whq-forum.de/invisionboard/lofiversion/index.php?t12226.html he just emailed HK --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:30, 3 December 2012 (EST)

==HKPRO thread==
I am starting a Thread on HKPro to see if what changes if needed are to be made to this page. Basically my plan is to get feedback on the information we have and then edit as needed. Who knows maybe we can usser in an era of co-operation between the IMFDB and the greater internet firearms community.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 18:37, 2 December 2012 (EST)

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/169921-g11-information-wanted.html

The link doesn't work when I click on it.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 20:07, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) ==
The current picture used to show a G11K1 actually shows some kind of transition from K1 to K2.
The forearm is from a K1, reciever and buttstock are from a K2, you can tell by the different trigger guard and the raised lines for for the extra magazines ports/wells. Does some one know where this picture is from? As far as I know the K1 and K2 bodies aren't compatible. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:37, 30 November 2012 (EST)
:To me this looks like a photoshop of the back end of a K2 with the front end of a K1. What are the "raised lines" you are referring to, do you mean the magazine catch, as this was different between the two models I think. There is also that bizarre lump above the magazine in front of the carry handle that has no business being there on either a K1 or K2, making it a bad photo-shop. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:: These "lumps" were present on most of the ACR and K1 models and even returned scaled down to a minimum on K2s, I wont call it bad photoshop because why should one shop an image like this when he already had a pic of an ACR/K1? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:26, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::If that lump was on the K1s (not sure we are talking about the same thing as I have never seen it on another image of any variant) then maybe it isn't bad photoshop, but it is definitely photoshop. The source is from [http://gunco-book.tripod.com/Index.htm Small Arms Illustrated], specifically [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qflUzEZHwes/TIKOjYbjN6I/AAAAAAAAAJY/IAzaMf0LIMU/s1600/SmallArms107.jpg this] image from a previous edition (the current edition on the site is lower res, but this is the previous larger size image that both the current K1 and K2 images were taken from). As usefull as this site is for ID'ing guns it very commonly uses photoshop to build up images of guns from other variants, which appears to be the case here. You can tell by the same pattern of wear on the gun, errant pixels in the same place, and the fact that there is a colour hue difference between the front and back half of the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I had identified the lump as the thing above the mag well that most people would think it is the magrelease (I hope this is the one you talked about). There are also color differences between the parts of the shown K2, I think it would be also possible that a) there was a version where the middle housing and the buttstock were already K2 spec but lacking a finished K2 handguard or b) it was a ergonomic test mockup or somethink in between with a bit of both. In case it is one of the latter it would be interesting to know where they got this pic from. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::::The lump I was talking about was the square part on the front of the sight. Is this what you are saying is the overpressure valve? Also where is the magazine catch? I think you are over thinking the origin of the K1 image on that site I linked to, photoshop is commonly used on there and if you compare the K1 and K2 images you can see that they appear to use the exact same photo of the receiver with different handguards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:15, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: That lump is the lump I thought you are talking about. The overpressure valve is the thing coming out of the bottom of the buttstock and the magazine release is the button below the eyepiece on top of the buttstock. The magazine catch is a part of the system inside the housing, you wont be able to release it as long as the system is moving because it wont be in place. Regarding the site, possibly I do but it doesn't make much sense to me that they obviously had a clear orthographic shot of a K1 handguard without having one of a complete gun or having one and shopping stuff like this. In case that the ones they show there are mock ups or ergonomic test models, you should notice that they even added wear to these and as long as the wear would be produced by some kind of protocol the wear could seem the same. Possibly I am really wrong here and just smell some exciting new info 8) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:49, 8 December 2012 (EST)
::: I have uploaded a pic showing a G11K1 as tested by the Bundeswehr, you can see it still has the first version overpressure valve, later K1s had the newer version like the ACRs and K2s and a few had a removable carrying handle like the K2. [[File:G11K1-TE.jpg|200px|thumb|none|G11K1]]
::::: I have to correct myself I just saw that the tested ACRs had the same overpressure valve as the shown K1 --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::Nice pic, will make this the standard one for the K1. Do you have any pics of similar quality of the K2 variant? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::: I will look through my stuff there should be one but can't give a guarentee --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 03:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)
:::::: The only more or less orthographic K2 pic I have is with a sling attached --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 09:25, 8 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-08T14:25:07Z

DAN11: /* G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) */

== Site introduction ==
The information stated in the introduction is '''wrong''' there were only '''265''' G11s ever made, so the mentioned '''1000''' units were never produced. Unless you have a better source than first hand information I would think the mentioned 1000 are misleading. In addition to that it was not only developed in the 80s it was developed from 1968 to 1990 and only the last K2 and K2/3 had 45 round magazines every other had 50 rounds --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 07:50, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:And you have first hand knowledge...How, exactly? I'm not saying you don't, but I'm not going to accept you saying that without explanation. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:I have indeed, lets say there were some very rare occasions in the past where one was able to get his hands on these information and I was lucky :) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:31, 1 December 2012 (EST)
I do know that there is at least one person who tried out a G11 on HKPro. I'll have to drop them a line and see if they have any interesting information.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 19:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
: You should ask for G3k he knows it for sure --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:Where do you guys even got this number 1000? This number never even was considered as an initial purchase number. The only time I read something like that was somewhere where someone wrote some crap about a contianer with 1000 G11s stolen by some Nazis in England or so. And if ask someone on HKPro ask some one who not just tried it out, only trying somethink doesn't qualify in development history. In other words you can't ask the guys and girls who tested the ACR model during the ACR-Tests for production numbers, because they were not part of deleopment or production but testing for the US Army so they could answer you questions like how it shoots and how you get recruited for testing ( some of the testers even had only shot the M16 before the ACR). Or ask me for production numbers of the Gebirgsjäger, I have tired it out ( and can say that is a brutal little thing) but I have no idea who produced it, how many were ever produced or wich units in detail got these in wich number ( of course I can look some of this up in books but thats not the piont here). --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 06:38, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::Can both sides cite their sources? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:47, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::: Heckler und Koch Oberndorf --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 10:40, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::You can't really just say "Heckler & Koch" and expect to be taken on faith. The number that you can find widely stated online is that there were about a thousand made (for example Wikipedia) although this number may be total bollocks and based on the same lie that everyone is copying. If you have actual information, which I would assume you do as you came up with the bizarrely specific number of 265, then that would make you seemingly the only person on the internet that knows so could you provide some more information as to how you know this or perhaps a corroborating source. For my own part, I would say that only 265 sounds like too few a number considering where the G11 got to in its development. I'm lumping together the K1s K2s and K3s together on this one, is the 265 you state for a specific variant or all together? Numbers that I know of for sure, are that there were at least 15 or so prototype iterations before the K1 (that may have had more than one example of each iteration), 20 that were sold to the US (K3 variant I believe, the one with the narrower rubber but pad) and there is also one in the UK Defence Academy in Shrivenham which is a K1 (along with examples of the other 3 ACR candidates, despite the fact that this weapons was not the type that was tested. A K1 is also seen in "promotional" material for the ACR tests before the tests began, so could be the same gun). I have also seen a photo of a K1 with a serial number in the 80s implying that there were at least this many K1s made, and everything I have seen implied that the K2 was the more common variant, so 265 total sounds too low to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I said HKO wich means I'm referring to '''the''' source in '''Oberndorf''' as you know there is where the magic happens, what should I say more? if you don't believe me ok go ahead. Besides that the prototypes were numbered from 0 to 265, therefore ok I was wrong the number has to be 266 or 267 when you want to take into account that prototype number 64 was built two times and want to count prototype number 0 as a full prototype weapon wich in fact it wasn't. EDIT: I have to say Wikipedia tends to lie a lot when it comes to stuff where not that much people have knowledge about try it out with Zuse's Z1 all you will find is crap ( except there now was one who corrected the wrong stuff). The K2 was the most rare prototype version besides the first testfixtures and the tankversion.--[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:20, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::"if you don't believe me ok go ahead." Ok, we won't. You expect us to take info made in anonymous comments on faith?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 12:10, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: I have mentioned my source so I guess faith doesn't apply here that much, anonymity applies very well but I guess most here are more or less anonymous. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::So your source is an HK employee at Oberndorf? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:41, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::: More or less it is the archive itself --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 15:58, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::Can you find anything online or in a book to corroborate that? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: The most complete book about the G11 is the book "Die G11-Story - Die Entwicklungsgeschichte einer High-Tech-Waffe"(by Wolfgang Seel in german) there you will find most of the things I have said, in addition to that you find some usefull information in th 50th anniversary book. In case you would like to have a guy more close to HK you could ask G3kurz on HKPro about the G11/ACR. HKPro is the only reliable online source in english if it comes to HK and especially G11, but I have to say you even mostly see crap written in german forums and websites. At the bottom of the page you can see a pic that I uploaded it shows the K1 as testen by the Bundeswehr, you wont find a pic of that online. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:23, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: Here is an online source for the production numbers: http://www.whq-forum.de/invisionboard/lofiversion/index.php?t12226.html he just emailed HK --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:30, 3 December 2012 (EST)

==HKPRO thread==
I am starting a Thread on HKPro to see if what changes if needed are to be made to this page. Basically my plan is to get feedback on the information we have and then edit as needed. Who knows maybe we can usser in an era of co-operation between the IMFDB and the greater internet firearms community.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 18:37, 2 December 2012 (EST)

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/169921-g11-information-wanted.html

The link doesn't work when I click on it.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 20:07, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) ==
The current picture used to show a G11K1 actually shows some kind of transition from K1 to K2.
The forearm is from a K1, reciever and buttstock are from a K2, you can tell by the different trigger guard and the raised lines for for the extra magazines ports/wells. Does some one know where this picture is from? As far as I know the K1 and K2 bodies aren't compatible. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:37, 30 November 2012 (EST)
:To me this looks like a photoshop of the back end of a K2 with the front end of a K1. What are the "raised lines" you are referring to, do you mean the magazine catch, as this was different between the two models I think. There is also that bizarre lump above the magazine in front of the carry handle that has no business being there on either a K1 or K2, making it a bad photo-shop. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:: These "lumps" were present on most of the ACR and K1 models and even returned scaled down to a minimum on K2s, I wont call it bad photoshop because why should one shop an image like this when he already had a pic of an ACR/K1? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:26, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::If that lump was on the K1s (not sure we are talking about the same thing as I have never seen it on another image of any variant) then maybe it isn't bad photoshop, but it is definitely photoshop. The source is from [http://gunco-book.tripod.com/Index.htm Small Arms Illustrated], specifically [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qflUzEZHwes/TIKOjYbjN6I/AAAAAAAAAJY/IAzaMf0LIMU/s1600/SmallArms107.jpg this] image from a previous edition (the current edition on the site is lower res, but this is the previous larger size image that both the current K1 and K2 images were taken from). As usefull as this site is for ID'ing guns it very commonly uses photoshop to build up images of guns from other variants, which appears to be the case here. You can tell by the same pattern of wear on the gun, errant pixels in the same place, and the fact that there is a colour hue difference between the front and back half of the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I had identified the lump as the thing above the mag well that most people would think it is the magrelease (I hope this is the one you talked about). There are also color differences between the parts of the shown K2, I think it would be also possible that a) there was a version where the middle housing and the buttstock were already K2 spec but lacking a finished K2 handguard or b) it was a ergonomic test mockup or somethink in between with a bit of both. In case it is one of the latter it would be interesting to know where they got this pic from. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::::The lump I was talking about was the square part on the front of the sight. Is this what you are saying is the overpressure valve? Also where is the magazine catch? I think you are over thinking the origin of the K1 image on that site I linked to, photoshop is commonly used on there and if you compare the K1 and K2 images you can see that they appear to use the exact same photo of the receiver with different handguards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:15, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::: I have uploaded a pic showing a G11K1 as tested by the Bundeswehr, you can see it still has the first version overpressure valve, later K1s had the newer version like the ACRs and K2s and a few had a removable carrying handle like the K2. [[File:G11K1-TE.jpg|200px|thumb|none|G11K1]]
::::: I have to correct myself I just saw that the tested ACRs had the same overpressure valve as the shown K1 --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::Nice pic, will make this the standard one for the K1. Do you have any pics of similar quality of the K2 variant? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::: I will look through my stuff there should be one but can't give a guarentee --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 03:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)
:::::: The only more or less orthographic K2 pic I have is with a sling attached --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 09:25, 8 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Far Cry 3

2012-12-08T10:19:55Z

DAN11: /* MP5 rear sight */ new section

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-03T21:30:44Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */ online source for production numbers

== Site introduction ==
The information stated in the introduction is '''wrong''' there were only '''265''' G11s ever made, so the mentioned '''1000''' units were never produced. Unless you have a better source than first hand information I would think the mentioned 1000 are misleading. In addition to that it was not only developed in the 80s it was developed from 1968 to 1990 and only the last K2 and K2/3 had 45 round magazines every other had 50 rounds --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 07:50, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:And you have first hand knowledge...How, exactly? I'm not saying you don't, but I'm not going to accept you saying that without explanation. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:I have indeed, lets say there were some very rare occasions in the past where one was able to get his hands on these information and I was lucky :) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:31, 1 December 2012 (EST)
I do know that there is at least one person who tried out a G11 on HKPro. I'll have to drop them a line and see if they have any interesting information.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 19:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
: You should ask for G3k he knows it for sure --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:Where do you guys even got this number 1000? This number never even was considered as an initial purchase number. The only time I read something like that was somewhere where someone wrote some crap about a contianer with 1000 G11s stolen by some Nazis in England or so. And if ask someone on HKPro ask some one who not just tried it out, only trying somethink doesn't qualify in development history. In other words you can't ask the guys and girls who tested the ACR model during the ACR-Tests for production numbers, because they were not part of deleopment or production but testing for the US Army so they could answer you questions like how it shoots and how you get recruited for testing ( some of the testers even had only shot the M16 before the ACR). Or ask me for production numbers of the Gebirgsjäger, I have tired it out ( and can say that is a brutal little thing) but I have no idea who produced it, how many were ever produced or wich units in detail got these in wich number ( of course I can look some of this up in books but thats not the piont here). --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 06:38, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::Can both sides cite their sources? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:47, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::: Heckler und Koch Oberndorf --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 10:40, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::You can't really just say "Heckler & Koch" and expect to be taken on faith. The number that you can find widely stated online is that there were about a thousand made (for example Wikipedia) although this number may be total bollocks and based on the same lie that everyone is copying. If you have actual information, which I would assume you do as you came up with the bizarrely specific number of 265, then that would make you seemingly the only person on the internet that knows so could you provide some more information as to how you know this or perhaps a corroborating source. For my own part, I would say that only 265 sounds like too few a number considering where the G11 got to in its development. I'm lumping together the K1s K2s and K3s together on this one, is the 265 you state for a specific variant or all together? Numbers that I know of for sure, are that there were at least 15 or so prototype iterations before the K1 (that may have had more than one example of each iteration), 20 that were sold to the US (K3 variant I believe, the one with the narrower rubber but pad) and there is also one in the UK Defence Academy in Shrivenham which is a K1 (along with examples of the other 3 ACR candidates, despite the fact that this weapons was not the type that was tested. A K1 is also seen in "promotional" material for the ACR tests before the tests began, so could be the same gun). I have also seen a photo of a K1 with a serial number in the 80s implying that there were at least this many K1s made, and everything I have seen implied that the K2 was the more common variant, so 265 total sounds too low to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I said HKO wich means I'm referring to '''the''' source in '''Oberndorf''' as you know there is where the magic happens, what should I say more? if you don't believe me ok go ahead. Besides that the prototypes were numbered from 0 to 265, therefore ok I was wrong the number has to be 266 or 267 when you want to take into account that prototype number 64 was built two times and want to count prototype number 0 as a full prototype weapon wich in fact it wasn't. EDIT: I have to say Wikipedia tends to lie a lot when it comes to stuff where not that much people have knowledge about try it out with Zuse's Z1 all you will find is crap ( except there now was one who corrected the wrong stuff). The K2 was the most rare prototype version besides the first testfixtures and the tankversion.--[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:20, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::"if you don't believe me ok go ahead." Ok, we won't. You expect us to take info made in anonymous comments on faith?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 12:10, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: I have mentioned my source so I guess faith doesn't apply here that much, anonymity applies very well but I guess most here are more or less anonymous. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::So your source is an HK employee at Oberndorf? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:41, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::: More or less it is the archive itself --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 15:58, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::Can you find anything online or in a book to corroborate that? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: The most complete book about the G11 is the book "Die G11-Story - Die Entwicklungsgeschichte einer High-Tech-Waffe"(by Wolfgang Seel in german) there you will find most of the things I have said, in addition to that you find some usefull information in th 50th anniversary book. In case you would like to have a guy more close to HK you could ask G3kurz on HKPro about the G11/ACR. HKPro is the only reliable online source in english if it comes to HK and especially G11, but I have to say you even mostly see crap written in german forums and websites. At the bottom of the page you can see a pic that I uploaded it shows the K1 as testen by the Bundeswehr, you wont find a pic of that online. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:23, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: Here is an online source for the production numbers: http://www.whq-forum.de/invisionboard/lofiversion/index.php?t12226.html he just emailed HK --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:30, 3 December 2012 (EST)

==HKPRO thread==
I am starting a Thread on HKPro to see if what changes if needed are to be made to this page. Basically my plan is to get feedback on the information we have and then edit as needed. Who knows maybe we can usser in an era of co-operation between the IMFDB and the greater internet firearms community.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 18:37, 2 December 2012 (EST)

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/169921-g11-information-wanted.html

The link doesn't work when I click on it.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 20:07, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) ==
The current picture used to show a G11K1 actually shows some kind of transition from K1 to K2.
The forearm is from a K1, reciever and buttstock are from a K2, you can tell by the different trigger guard and the raised lines for for the extra magazines ports/wells. Does some one know where this picture is from? As far as I know the K1 and K2 bodies aren't compatible. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:37, 30 November 2012 (EST)
:To me this looks like a photoshop of the back end of a K2 with the front end of a K1. What are the "raised lines" you are referring to, do you mean the magazine catch, as this was different between the two models I think. There is also that bizarre lump above the magazine in front of the carry handle that has no business being there on either a K1 or K2, making it a bad photo-shop. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:: These "lumps" were present on most of the ACR and K1 models and even returned scaled down to a minimum on K2s, I wont call it bad photoshop because why should one shop an image like this when he already had a pic of an ACR/K1? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:26, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::If that lump was on the K1s (not sure we are talking about the same thing as I have never seen it on another image of any variant) then maybe it isn't bad photoshop, but it is definitely photoshop. The source is from [http://gunco-book.tripod.com/Index.htm Small Arms Illustrated], specifically [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qflUzEZHwes/TIKOjYbjN6I/AAAAAAAAAJY/IAzaMf0LIMU/s1600/SmallArms107.jpg this] image from a previous edition (the current edition on the site is lower res, but this is the previous larger size image that both the current K1 and K2 images were taken from). As usefull as this site is for ID'ing guns it very commonly uses photoshop to build up images of guns from other variants, which appears to be the case here. You can tell by the same pattern of wear on the gun, errant pixels in the same place, and the fact that there is a colour hue difference between the front and back half of the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I had identified the lump as the thing above the mag well that most people would think it is the magrelease (I hope this is the one you talked about). There are also color differences between the parts of the shown K2, I think it would be also possible that a) there was a version where the middle housing and the buttstock were already K2 spec but lacking a finished K2 handguard or b) it was a ergonomic test mockup or somethink in between with a bit of both. In case it is one of the latter it would be interesting to know where they got this pic from. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::::The lump I was talking about was the square part on the front of the sight. Is this what you are saying is the overpressure valve? Also where is the magazine catch? I think you are over thinking the origin of the K1 image on that site I linked to, photoshop is commonly used on there and if you compare the K1 and K2 images you can see that they appear to use the exact same photo of the receiver with different handguards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:15, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::: I have uploaded a pic showing a G11K1 as tested by the Bundeswehr, you can see it still has the first version overpressure valve, later K1s had the newer version like the ACRs and K2s and a few had a removable carrying handle like the K2. [[File:G11K1-TE.jpg|200px|thumb|none|G11K1]]
::::: I have to correct myself I just saw that the tested ACRs had the same overpressure valve as the shown K1 --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::Nice pic, will make this the standard one for the K1. Do you have any pics of similar quality of the K2 variant? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::: I will look through my stuff there should be one but can't give a guarentee --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 03:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-03T09:45:38Z

DAN11: /* G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) */

== Site introduction ==
The information stated in the introduction is '''wrong''' there were only '''265''' G11s ever made, so the mentioned '''1000''' units were never produced. Unless you have a better source than first hand information I would think the mentioned 1000 are misleading. In addition to that it was not only developed in the 80s it was developed from 1968 to 1990 and only the last K2 and K2/3 had 45 round magazines every other had 50 rounds --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 07:50, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:And you have first hand knowledge...How, exactly? I'm not saying you don't, but I'm not going to accept you saying that without explanation. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:I have indeed, lets say there were some very rare occasions in the past where one was able to get his hands on these information and I was lucky :) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:31, 1 December 2012 (EST)
I do know that there is at least one person who tried out a G11 on HKPro. I'll have to drop them a line and see if they have any interesting information.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 19:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
: You should ask for G3k he knows it for sure --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:Where do you guys even got this number 1000? This number never even was considered as an initial purchase number. The only time I read something like that was somewhere where someone wrote some crap about a contianer with 1000 G11s stolen by some Nazis in England or so. And if ask someone on HKPro ask some one who not just tried it out, only trying somethink doesn't qualify in development history. In other words you can't ask the guys and girls who tested the ACR model during the ACR-Tests for production numbers, because they were not part of deleopment or production but testing for the US Army so they could answer you questions like how it shoots and how you get recruited for testing ( some of the testers even had only shot the M16 before the ACR). Or ask me for production numbers of the Gebirgsjäger, I have tired it out ( and can say that is a brutal little thing) but I have no idea who produced it, how many were ever produced or wich units in detail got these in wich number ( of course I can look some of this up in books but thats not the piont here). --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 06:38, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::Can both sides cite their sources? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:47, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::: Heckler und Koch Oberndorf --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 10:40, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::You can't really just say "Heckler & Koch" and expect to be taken on faith. The number that you can find widely stated online is that there were about a thousand made (for example Wikipedia) although this number may be total bollocks and based on the same lie that everyone is copying. If you have actual information, which I would assume you do as you came up with the bizarrely specific number of 265, then that would make you seemingly the only person on the internet that knows so could you provide some more information as to how you know this or perhaps a corroborating source. For my own part, I would say that only 265 sounds like too few a number considering where the G11 got to in its development. I'm lumping together the K1s K2s and K3s together on this one, is the 265 you state for a specific variant or all together? Numbers that I know of for sure, are that there were at least 15 or so prototype iterations before the K1 (that may have had more than one example of each iteration), 20 that were sold to the US (K3 variant I believe, the one with the narrower rubber but pad) and there is also one in the UK Defence Academy in Shrivenham which is a K1 (along with examples of the other 3 ACR candidates, despite the fact that this weapons was not the type that was tested. A K1 is also seen in "promotional" material for the ACR tests before the tests began, so could be the same gun). I have also seen a photo of a K1 with a serial number in the 80s implying that there were at least this many K1s made, and everything I have seen implied that the K2 was the more common variant, so 265 total sounds too low to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I said HKO wich means I'm referring to '''the''' source in '''Oberndorf''' as you know there is where the magic happens, what should I say more? if you don't believe me ok go ahead. Besides that the prototypes were numbered from 0 to 265, therefore ok I was wrong the number has to be 266 or 267 when you want to take into account that prototype number 64 was built two times and want to count prototype number 0 as a full prototype weapon wich in fact it wasn't. EDIT: I have to say Wikipedia tends to lie a lot when it comes to stuff where not that much people have knowledge about try it out with Zuse's Z1 all you will find is crap ( except there now was one who corrected the wrong stuff). The K2 was the most rare prototype version besides the first testfixtures and the tankversion.--[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:20, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::"if you don't believe me ok go ahead." Ok, we won't. You expect us to take info made in anonymous comments on faith?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 12:10, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: I have mentioned my source so I guess faith doesn't apply here that much, anonymity applies very well but I guess most here are more or less anonymous. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::So your source is an HK employee at Oberndorf? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:41, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::: More or less it is the archive itself --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 15:58, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::Can you find anything online or in a book to corroborate that? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: The most complete book about the G11 is the book "Die G11-Story - Die Entwicklungsgeschichte einer High-Tech-Waffe"(by Wolfgang Seel in german) there you will find most of the things I have said, in addition to that you find some usefull information in th 50th anniversary book. In case you would like to have a guy more close to HK you could ask G3kurz on HKPro about the G11/ACR. HKPro is the only reliable online source in english if it comes to HK and especially G11, but I have to say you even mostly see crap written in german forums and websites. At the bottom of the page you can see a pic that I uploaded it shows the K1 as testen by the Bundeswehr, you wont find a pic of that online. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:23, 2 December 2012 (EST)

==HKPRO thread==
I am starting a Thread on HKPro to see if what changes if needed are to be made to this page. Basically my plan is to get feedback on the information we have and then edit as needed. Who knows maybe we can usser in an era of co-operation between the IMFDB and the greater internet firearms community.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 18:37, 2 December 2012 (EST)

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/169921-g11-information-wanted.html

The link doesn't work when I click on it.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 20:07, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) ==
The current picture used to show a G11K1 actually shows some kind of transition from K1 to K2.
The forearm is from a K1, reciever and buttstock are from a K2, you can tell by the different trigger guard and the raised lines for for the extra magazines ports/wells. Does some one know where this picture is from? As far as I know the K1 and K2 bodies aren't compatible. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:37, 30 November 2012 (EST)
:To me this looks like a photoshop of the back end of a K2 with the front end of a K1. What are the "raised lines" you are referring to, do you mean the magazine catch, as this was different between the two models I think. There is also that bizarre lump above the magazine in front of the carry handle that has no business being there on either a K1 or K2, making it a bad photo-shop. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:: These "lumps" were present on most of the ACR and K1 models and even returned scaled down to a minimum on K2s, I wont call it bad photoshop because why should one shop an image like this when he already had a pic of an ACR/K1? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:26, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::If that lump was on the K1s (not sure we are talking about the same thing as I have never seen it on another image of any variant) then maybe it isn't bad photoshop, but it is definitely photoshop. The source is from [http://gunco-book.tripod.com/Index.htm Small Arms Illustrated], specifically [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qflUzEZHwes/TIKOjYbjN6I/AAAAAAAAAJY/IAzaMf0LIMU/s1600/SmallArms107.jpg this] image from a previous edition (the current edition on the site is lower res, but this is the previous larger size image that both the current K1 and K2 images were taken from). As usefull as this site is for ID'ing guns it very commonly uses photoshop to build up images of guns from other variants, which appears to be the case here. You can tell by the same pattern of wear on the gun, errant pixels in the same place, and the fact that there is a colour hue difference between the front and back half of the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I had identified the lump as the thing above the mag well that most people would think it is the magrelease (I hope this is the one you talked about). There are also color differences between the parts of the shown K2, I think it would be also possible that a) there was a version where the middle housing and the buttstock were already K2 spec but lacking a finished K2 handguard or b) it was a ergonomic test mockup or somethink in between with a bit of both. In case it is one of the latter it would be interesting to know where they got this pic from. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::: I have uploaded a pic showing a G11K1 as tested by the Bundeswehr, you can see it still has the first version overpressure valve, later K1s had the newer version like the ACRs and K2s and a few had a removable carrying handle like the K2. [[File:G11K1-TE.jpg|200px|thumb|none|G11K1]]
::::: I have to correct myself I just saw that the tested ACRs had the same overpressure valve as the shown K1 --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 04:45, 3 December 2012 (EST)
::::Nice pic, will make this the standard one for the K1. Do you have any pics of similar quality of the K2 variant? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::: I will look through my stuff there should be one but can't give a guarentee --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 03:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-03T09:02:01Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */ grammar -.-

== Site introduction ==
The information stated in the introduction is '''wrong''' there were only '''265''' G11s ever made, so the mentioned '''1000''' units were never produced. Unless you have a better source than first hand information I would think the mentioned 1000 are misleading. In addition to that it was not only developed in the 80s it was developed from 1968 to 1990 and only the last K2 and K2/3 had 45 round magazines every other had 50 rounds --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 07:50, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:And you have first hand knowledge...How, exactly? I'm not saying you don't, but I'm not going to accept you saying that without explanation. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:I have indeed, lets say there were some very rare occasions in the past where one was able to get his hands on these information and I was lucky :) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:31, 1 December 2012 (EST)
I do know that there is at least one person who tried out a G11 on HKPro. I'll have to drop them a line and see if they have any interesting information.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 19:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
: You should ask for G3k he knows it for sure --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:Where do you guys even got this number 1000? This number never even was considered as an initial purchase number. The only time I read something like that was somewhere where someone wrote some crap about a contianer with 1000 G11s stolen by some Nazis in England or so. And if ask someone on HKPro ask some one who not just tried it out, only trying somethink doesn't qualify in development history. In other words you can't ask the guys and girls who tested the ACR model during the ACR-Tests for production numbers, because they were not part of deleopment or production but testing for the US Army so they could answer you questions like how it shoots and how you get recruited for testing ( some of the testers even had only shot the M16 before the ACR). Or ask me for production numbers of the Gebirgsjäger, I have tired it out ( and can say that is a brutal little thing) but I have no idea who produced it, how many were ever produced or wich units in detail got these in wich number ( of course I can look some of this up in books but thats not the piont here). --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 06:38, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::Can both sides cite their sources? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:47, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::: Heckler und Koch Oberndorf --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 10:40, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::You can't really just say "Heckler & Koch" and expect to be taken on faith. The number that you can find widely stated online is that there were about a thousand made (for example Wikipedia) although this number may be total bollocks and based on the same lie that everyone is copying. If you have actual information, which I would assume you do as you came up with the bizarrely specific number of 265, then that would make you seemingly the only person on the internet that knows so could you provide some more information as to how you know this or perhaps a corroborating source. For my own part, I would say that only 265 sounds like too few a number considering where the G11 got to in its development. I'm lumping together the K1s K2s and K3s together on this one, is the 265 you state for a specific variant or all together? Numbers that I know of for sure, are that there were at least 15 or so prototype iterations before the K1 (that may have had more than one example of each iteration), 20 that were sold to the US (K3 variant I believe, the one with the narrower rubber but pad) and there is also one in the UK Defence Academy in Shrivenham which is a K1 (along with examples of the other 3 ACR candidates, despite the fact that this weapons was not the type that was tested. A K1 is also seen in "promotional" material for the ACR tests before the tests began, so could be the same gun). I have also seen a photo of a K1 with a serial number in the 80s implying that there were at least this many K1s made, and everything I have seen implied that the K2 was the more common variant, so 265 total sounds too low to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I said HKO wich means I'm referring to '''the''' source in '''Oberndorf''' as you know there is where the magic happens, what should I say more? if you don't believe me ok go ahead. Besides that the prototypes were numbered from 0 to 265, therefore ok I was wrong the number has to be 266 or 267 when you want to take into account that prototype number 64 was built two times and want to count prototype number 0 as a full prototype weapon wich in fact it wasn't. EDIT: I have to say Wikipedia tends to lie a lot when it comes to stuff where not that much people have knowledge about try it out with Zuse's Z1 all you will find is crap ( except there now was one who corrected the wrong stuff). The K2 was the most rare prototype version besides the first testfixtures and the tankversion.--[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:20, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::"if you don't believe me ok go ahead." Ok, we won't. You expect us to take info made in anonymous comments on faith?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 12:10, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: I have mentioned my source so I guess faith doesn't apply here that much, anonymity applies very well but I guess most here are more or less anonymous. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::So your source is an HK employee at Oberndorf? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:41, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::: More or less it is the archive itself --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 15:58, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::Can you find anything online or in a book to corroborate that? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: The most complete book about the G11 is the book "Die G11-Story - Die Entwicklungsgeschichte einer High-Tech-Waffe"(by Wolfgang Seel in german) there you will find most of the things I have said, in addition to that you find some usefull information in th 50th anniversary book. In case you would like to have a guy more close to HK you could ask G3kurz on HKPro about the G11/ACR. HKPro is the only reliable online source in english if it comes to HK and especially G11, but I have to say you even mostly see crap written in german forums and websites. At the bottom of the page you can see a pic that I uploaded it shows the K1 as testen by the Bundeswehr, you wont find a pic of that online. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:23, 2 December 2012 (EST)

==HKPRO thread==
I am starting a Thread on HKPro to see if what changes if needed are to be made to this page. Basically my plan is to get feedback on the information we have and then edit as needed. Who knows maybe we can usser in an era of co-operation between the IMFDB and the greater internet firearms community.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 18:37, 2 December 2012 (EST)

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/169921-g11-information-wanted.html

The link doesn't work when I click on it.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 20:07, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) ==
The current picture used to show a G11K1 actually shows some kind of transition from K1 to K2.
The forearm is from a K1, reciever and buttstock are from a K2, you can tell by the different trigger guard and the raised lines for for the extra magazines ports/wells. Does some one know where this picture is from? As far as I know the K1 and K2 bodies aren't compatible. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:37, 30 November 2012 (EST)
:To me this looks like a photoshop of the back end of a K2 with the front end of a K1. What are the "raised lines" you are referring to, do you mean the magazine catch, as this was different between the two models I think. There is also that bizarre lump above the magazine in front of the carry handle that has no business being there on either a K1 or K2, making it a bad photo-shop. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:: These "lumps" were present on most of the ACR and K1 models and even returned scaled down to a minimum on K2s, I wont call it bad photoshop because why should one shop an image like this when he already had a pic of an ACR/K1? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:26, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::If that lump was on the K1s (not sure we are talking about the same thing as I have never seen it on another image of any variant) then maybe it isn't bad photoshop, but it is definitely photoshop. The source is from [http://gunco-book.tripod.com/Index.htm Small Arms Illustrated], specifically [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qflUzEZHwes/TIKOjYbjN6I/AAAAAAAAAJY/IAzaMf0LIMU/s1600/SmallArms107.jpg this] image from a previous edition (the current edition on the site is lower res, but this is the previous larger size image that both the current K1 and K2 images were taken from). As usefull as this site is for ID'ing guns it very commonly uses photoshop to build up images of guns from other variants, which appears to be the case here. You can tell by the same pattern of wear on the gun, errant pixels in the same place, and the fact that there is a colour hue difference between the front and back half of the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::: I have uploaded a pic showing a G11K1 as tested by the Bundeswehr, you can see it still has the first version overpressure valve, later K1s had the newer version like the ACRs and K2s and a few had a removable carrying handle like the K2. [[File:G11K1-TE.jpg|200px|thumb|none|G11K1]]
::::Nice pic, will make this the standard one for the K1. Do you have any pics of similar quality of the K2 variant? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::: I will look through my stuff there should be one but can't give a guarentee --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 03:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-03T08:50:41Z

DAN11: /* G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) */

== Site introduction ==
The information stated in the introduction is '''wrong''' there were only '''265''' G11s ever made, so the mentioned '''1000''' units were never produced. Unless you have a better source than first hand information I would think the mentioned 1000 are misleading. In addition to that it was not only developed in the 80s it was developed from 1968 to 1990 and only the last K2 and K2/3 had 45 round magazines every other had 50 rounds --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 07:50, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:And you have first hand knowledge...How, exactly? I'm not saying you don't, but I'm not going to accept you saying that without explanation. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:I have indeed, lets say there were some very rare occasions in the past where one was able to get his hands on these information and I was lucky :) --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:31, 1 December 2012 (EST)
I do know that there is at least one person who tried out a G11 on HKPro. I'll have to drop them a line and see if they have any interesting information.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 19:33, 1 December 2012 (EST)
: You should ask for G3k he knows it for sure --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 19:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)
:Where do you guys even got this number 1000? This number never even was considered as an initial purchase number. The only time I read something like that was somewhere where someone wrote some crap about a contianer with 1000 G11s stolen by some Nazis in England or so. And if ask someone on HKPro ask some one who not just tried it out, only trying somethink doesn't qualify in development history. In other words you can't ask the guys and girls who tested the ACR model during the ACR-Tests for production numbers, because they were not part of deleopment or production but testing for the US Army so they could answer you questions like how it shoots and how you get recruited for testing ( some of the testers even had only shot the M16 before the ACR). Or ask me for production numbers of the Gebirgsjäger, I have tired it out ( and can say that is a brutal little thing) but I have no idea who produced it, how many were ever produced or wich units in detail got these in wich number ( of course I can look some of this up in books but thats not the piont here). --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 06:38, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::Can both sides cite their sources? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:47, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::: Heckler und Koch Oberndorf --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 10:40, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::You can't really just say "Heckler & Koch" and expect to be taken on faith. The number that you can find widely stated online is that there were about a thousand made (for example Wikipedia) although this number may be total bollocks and based on the same lie that everyone is copying. If you have actual information, which I would assume you do as you came up with the bizarrely specific number of 265, then that would make you seemingly the only person on the internet that knows so could you provide some more information as to how you know this or perhaps a corroborating source. For my own part, I would say that only 265 sounds like too few a number considering where the G11 got to in its development. I'm lumping together the K1s K2s and K3s together on this one, is the 265 you state for a specific variant or all together? Numbers that I know of for sure, are that there were at least 15 or so prototype iterations before the K1 (that may have had more than one example of each iteration), 20 that were sold to the US (K3 variant I believe, the one with the narrower rubber but pad) and there is also one in the UK Defence Academy in Shrivenham which is a K1 (along with examples of the other 3 ACR candidates, despite the fact that this weapons was not the type that was tested. A K1 is also seen in "promotional" material for the ACR tests before the tests began, so could be the same gun). I have also seen a photo of a K1 with a serial number in the 80s implying that there were at least this many K1s made, and everything I have seen implied that the K2 was the more common variant, so 265 total sounds too low to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I said HKO wich means I'm referring to '''the''' source in '''Oberndorf''' as you know there is where the magic happens, what should I say more? if you don't believe me ok go ahead. Besides that the prototypes were numbered from 0 to 265, therefore ok I was wrong the number has to be 266 or 267 when you want to take into account that prototype number 64 was built two times and want to count prototype number 0 as a full prototype weapon wich in fact it wasn't. EDIT: I have to say Wikipedia tends to lie a lot when it comes to stuff where not that much people have knowledge about try it out with Zuse's Z1 all you will find is crap ( except there now was one who corrected the wrong stuff). The K2 was the most rare prototype version besides the first testfixtures and the tankversion.--[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:20, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::"if you don't believe me ok go ahead." Ok, we won't. You expect us to take info made in anonymous comments on faith?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 12:10, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::: I have mentioned my source so I guess faith doesn't apply here that much, anonymity applies very well but I guess most here are more or less anonymous. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::So your source is an HK employee at Oberndorf? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:41, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::: More or less it is the archive itself --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 15:58, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::Can you find anything online or in a book to corroborate that? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:03, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::::::::: The most complete book about the G11 is the book "Die G11-Story - Die Entwicklungsgeschichte einer High-Tech-Waffe"(by Wolfgang Seel in german) there you will find most of the things I have said, in addition to that you find some usefull information in th 50th anniversary book. In case you would like to have a guy more close to HK you could ask G3kurz on HKPro about the G11/ACR. HKPro is the only reliable online source in english if it comes to HK and especially G11, but I have to say you even mostly see crap written in german forums and websites. At the bottom of the page you can see a pic that I uploaded it shows the K1 as testen by the Bundeswehr, you wont find it pic of that online. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 16:23, 2 December 2012 (EST)

==HKPRO thread==
I am starting a Thread on HKPro to see if what changes if needed are to be made to this page. Basically my plan is to get feedback on the information we have and then edit as needed. Who knows maybe we can usser in an era of co-operation between the IMFDB and the greater internet firearms community.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 18:37, 2 December 2012 (EST)

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/169921-g11-information-wanted.html

The link doesn't work when I click on it.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 20:07, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) ==
The current picture used to show a G11K1 actually shows some kind of transition from K1 to K2.
The forearm is from a K1, reciever and buttstock are from a K2, you can tell by the different trigger guard and the raised lines for for the extra magazines ports/wells. Does some one know where this picture is from? As far as I know the K1 and K2 bodies aren't compatible. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:37, 30 November 2012 (EST)
:To me this looks like a photoshop of the back end of a K2 with the front end of a K1. What are the "raised lines" you are referring to, do you mean the magazine catch, as this was different between the two models I think. There is also that bizarre lump above the magazine in front of the carry handle that has no business being there on either a K1 or K2, making it a bad photo-shop. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
:: These "lumps" were present on most of the ACR and K1 models and even returned scaled down to a minimum on K2s, I wont call it bad photoshop because why should one shop an image like this when he already had a pic of an ACR/K1? --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 11:26, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::If that lump was on the K1s (not sure we are talking about the same thing as I have never seen it on another image of any variant) then maybe it isn't bad photoshop, but it is definitely photoshop. The source is from [http://gunco-book.tripod.com/Index.htm Small Arms Illustrated], specifically [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qflUzEZHwes/TIKOjYbjN6I/AAAAAAAAAJY/IAzaMf0LIMU/s1600/SmallArms107.jpg this] image from a previous edition (the current edition on the site is lower res, but this is the previous larger size image that both the current K1 and K2 images were taken from). As usefull as this site is for ID'ing guns it very commonly uses photoshop to build up images of guns from other variants, which appears to be the case here. You can tell by the same pattern of wear on the gun, errant pixels in the same place, and the fact that there is a colour hue difference between the front and back half of the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::: I have uploaded a pic showing a G11K1 as tested by the Bundeswehr, you can see it still has the first version overpressure valve, later K1s had the newer version like the ACRs and K2s and a few had a removable carrying handle like the K2. [[File:G11K1-TE.jpg|200px|thumb|none|G11K1]]
::::Nice pic, will make this the standard one for the K1. Do you have any pics of similar quality of the K2 variant? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:11, 2 December 2012 (EST)
::::: I will look through my stuff there should be one but can't give a guarentee --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 03:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T21:23:14Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */ forgot to sign

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T21:22:28Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T20:58:25Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T19:40:23Z

DAN11: /* G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) */

File:G11K1-TE.jpg

2012-12-02T19:26:22Z

DAN11: HK G11 Kostruktionsstand 1, technische Erprobung (test and evaluation)

HK G11 Kostruktionsstand 1, technische Erprobung (test and evaluation)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T18:12:22Z

DAN11: /* G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) */ spelling ._.

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T18:03:04Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T16:46:34Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T16:26:58Z

DAN11: /* G11K1 (Konstruktionsstand 1) */

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T16:20:12Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T15:40:18Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T11:38:46Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */

Talk:Heckler & Koch G11

2012-12-02T00:39:08Z

DAN11: /* Site introduction */