Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

The Mandalorian - Season 1

2020-05-01T19:38:16Z

Cozmo: /* Amban sniper rifle */ Adding historical information to the section.

{{unknown}}

{{Infobox TV|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = ''The Mandalorian''
|picture = The Mandalorian Title.jpg
|country = [[File:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|channel = Disney
|genre = Sci-Fi, Action, Western
|dates =2019
|seasons = 1
|episodes = 8
|character1= The Mandalorian / Din Djarin
|actor1=[[Pedro Pascal]]
|character2= Greef Karga
|actor2=[[Carl Weathers]]
|character3= Cara Dune
|actor3=[[Gina Carano]]
|character4= Kuiil
|actor4=[[Nick Nolte]]
|character5= Moff Gideon
|actor5=[[Giancarlo Esposito]]
|character6=Mayfield
|actor6=[[Bill Burr]]
|character7=Omera
|actor7=[[Julia Jones]]
|character8=Fennec Shrand
|actor8=[[Ming-Na Wen]]
|character9=Burg
|actor9=[[Clancy Brown]]
}}

{{TV Title Season|1|Mandalorian, The{{!}}The Mandalorian}}

__TOC__ 

=Blaster Pistols=

==Mandalorian blaster pistol (Bergmann 1894)==
A blaster pistol is used by the Mandalorian aka Din Djarin ([[Pedro Pascal]]) as his main sidearm. It is based on the [[Bergmann 1894]]; because of the rarity of the real pistol, it seems likely that the prop used in the show is a replica instead of an actual Bergmann 1894. A number of modifications were made to the Bergmann 1894 for the blaster's design, including new iron sights, a muzzle device, a modified grip, a modified hammer, and a smoothed out magazine cover with the circular grasping handle removed.

[[File:Bergmann No. 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Bergmann 1894 - 8mm]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian gets into a standoff in "Chapter 1".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E02 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian gets stunned by Jawan small arms fire in "Chapter 2: The Child".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The pistol seen with the Mandalorian in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E06 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In "Chapter 6: The Prisoner", the Mandalorian is forced to engage New Republic sentry droids during a raid on a prison ship.]]
[[File:Mandogatkdo.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close up of the left side of the blaster in "Chapter 8: Redemption".]]

==BlasTech DH-17 Blaster Pistol (Sterling SMG)==
The BlasTech DH-17 Blaster Pistol, based on the [[Sterling SMG]], is used by some Mandalorians backing up ''the'' Mandalorian at the end of "Chapter 3: The Sin". In "Chapter 6: The Prisoner", New Republic Security Droids use the DH-17 as their primary weapon, then ''the'' Mandalorian uses it to bust of a jail cell.

[[File:SWE11br2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|BlasTech DH-17 Blaster Pistol in ''The Empire Strikes Back''.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The DH-17-armed Mandalorian opens fire on Guild bounty hunters in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E06_05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|New Republic Security Droids are armed with the DH-17 Blaster Pistol "Chapter 6: The Prisoner".]]
[[File:Mando193232638587.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian uses the DH-17 Blaster Pistol briefly "Chapter 6: The Prisoner" inside a jail cell.]]

==BlasTech SE-14C Blaster Pistol (Rexim-Favor Mk5)==
The [[Rexim-Favor Mk5]]-based "BlasTech SE-14C" is used by Remnant Stormtroopers as their sidearm.

[[File:SE14Cblaster-Starwars.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SE-14C blaster pistol.]]
[[File:Reximfavor mk5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Rexim-Favor Mk5 - 9x19mm Parabellum]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Remnant Stormtrooper aims his weapon at the Mandalorian in "Chapter 1".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E7 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A RS with the SE-14C in "Chapter 7: The Reckoning".]]

==Ruger Mk II==
A suppressed [[Ruger Mk II]] is seen with a Rodian-type Guild bounty hunter in "Chapter 3: The Sin".

[[File:CollateralMKIIinfilm.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Suppressed Ruger MkII - .22 LR]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Rodian bounty hunter engages the Mandalorian in "Chapter 3: The Sun".]]

==Rodian DT-12 (Ruger Mk III)==
Mayfeld ([[Bill Burr]]) is seen using the "Rodian DT-12" blaster pistol, a heavily-modified [[Ruger Mk III]].

[[File:RugerMkIIIBlued.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ruger Mk III - .22 LR]]
[[File:Billburr366666.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mayfeld ([[Bill Burr]]) prepares to board the prisoner transport in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner" with two DT-12 pistols in shoulder holsters.]]
[[File:Billburr1158999.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mayfeld ([[Bill Burr]]) aboard the prisoner transport in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner" with his signature robot arm that has DT-12 attached to it.]]

==Nambu Type 14==
Cara Dune's ([[Gina Carano]]) blaster pistol is based around a late [[Nambu Type 14]].

[[File:NambuType14Pistol.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Late Nambu Type 14 - 8x22mm Nambu]]
[[File:Cara and Mando blasters.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Cara and the Mandalorian draw their pistols after a brief scuffle in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary".]]
[[File:Nambuiisdow.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Cara entering a firefight in "Chapter 8: Redemption".]]

==Astra 400==
A highly modified [[Astra 400]] appears in the Mandalorian's Arsenal, and is later one of the weapons used to arm the farmers in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary". An identical pistol is also carried by one of the guild bounty hunter in "Chapter 3: The Sin". Mayfeld ([[Bill Burr]]) is also seen using the same model in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner".

[[File:Astra_400_right.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Astra 400 - 9x23mm Largo]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 00.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The Mandalorian's arsenal as seen in "Chapter 1". The Astra 400 is the bottom of the three blaster pistols on the left.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 16.jpg|600px|thumb|none|A guild bounty hunter armed with the Astra 400 in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:Astraandflare.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The Mandalorian opens up his weapons chest in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary", revealing a blaster (right) based on the Astra 400, and a blaster based on an Acvoke Air Pistol (left).]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E06 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mayfeld ([[Bill Burr]]) is seen using a heavily modified Astra 400 (his left hand) in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner".]]

==Accles & Shelvoke Acvoke==
An [[Accles & Shelvoke Acvoke]] air pistol fitted with wooden grips and a reversed M38 azimuth telescope on the right side can be seen in the Mandalorian's arsenal. This is also one of the weapons which he uses to arm farmers with in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary".

[[File:Accles_%26_Shelvoke_Acvoke.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Accles & Shelvoke Acvoke air pistol - .177 pellet]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01_00.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The Acvoke is visible on the top row of the Mandalorian's arsenal in "Chapter 1".]]
[[File:Astraandflare.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The Mandalorian opens up his weapons chest in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary", revealing a blaster (right) based on the Astra 400, and a blaster based on an Acvoke Air Pistol (left).]]
[[File:Flare.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The farmer in the foreground is armed with the Acvoke.]]

==Apache Fireball Air Pistol==
An [[Apache Fireball Air Pistol]] fitted with a ribbed barrel shroud is in the Mandalorian's arsenal, and is also one of the weapons he uses to arm the farmers in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary".

[[File:Apache Fireball.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Apache Fireball Air Pistol - .250 BB]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian's arsenal as seen in "Chapter 1". The Apache Fireball is the middle of the three blaster pistols on the left.]]
[[File:Scratchbuild.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A farmer practising with the Fireball in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary".]]

==Webley Tempest Air Pistol==
A [[Webley Tempest Air Pistol]] modified with a wider and longer barrel appears in the Mandalorian's arsenal. It is also used by at least one of the guild bounty hunters in "Chapter 3: The Sin". Toro Calican ([[Jake Cannavale]]) carries this pistol fitted with a scope (the same M38 azimuth telescope seen on many Star Wars weapons) and a cone shaped muzzle device in "Chapter 5: The Gunslinger".

[[File:WebleyTempestPIstol.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Webley Tempest Air Pistol - .177 pellet]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01_00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian's arsenal as seen in "Chapter 1". The Webley Tempest is the top of the three blaster pistols on the left.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the bounty hunter (left) in "Chapter 3: The Sin" carries a modified Webley Tempest.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E05 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Calican keeping watch with his blaster at the ready in "Chapter 5: The Gunslinger".]]

==Webley Premier Air Pistol==
A heavily modified [[Webley Premier Air Pistol]] is used by Mayfeld ([[Bill Burr]]) in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner". The pistol has had the original barrel entirely removed and instead the piston tube portrays the barrel and is fitted with a cone shaped muzzle. A block has been fitted ahead of the rear sight to hide the original now empty breech area, and what appears to be an aiming laser is fitted above the muzzle. Based on the number of trigger pins and the rounded washer-like sections at the bottom of the barrel locking latch, this appears to be a Model E variant of the pistol.

[[File:Webley Premier Model E.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Webley Premier Air Pistol, Model E - .177 pellet]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01_00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian's arsenal as seen in "Chapter 1". The modified Webley Premier is at the bottom of the right column.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E06_00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mayfeld ([[Bill Burr]]) is seen using a heavily modified Webley Premier Air Pistol (his right hand) in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner".]]

==A180 Pistol (WE Luger P08)==
Davan ([[Matt Lanter]]) uses an A180 pistol, which was based on a [[Luger P08]] in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner". This pistol first appeared in ''[[Rogue One: A Star Wars Story]]'' and is built from the same model WE Luger P08 6" barrel airsoft pistol, however it is a different physical prop as this example retains the original intact rear sight and has not had the over-travel lug on the rear of the toggle ground down.

[[File:WE Luger P08 (6" Barrel).jpg|thumb|none|400px|WE Luger P08 (6" barrel) - 6mm BBs]]
[[File:Lugeslice36588.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Davan takes out his A180 when the Mandalorian's party breaches the ship's control room in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner".]]

==Steyr M1912==
In "Chapter 3: The Sin", Greef Karga ([[Carl Weathers]]) uses a blaster pistol based around a [[Steyr M1912]].

[[File:SteyerHahn1913Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Steyr M1912 - 9x23mm Steyr]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Greef Karga with his Steyr in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Karga firing his pistol; here, its profile is more evident.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E7 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The modded 1912 drawn out by Karga when a gunfight starts in "Chapter 7: The Reckoning".]]

==DL-21 (Charter Arms Explorer II)==
A [[Charter Arms Explorer II]] modified with a scope and a thicker barrel with the tail section from a British 2 inch mortar shell on the muzzle appears in the Mandalorian's arsenal. This blaster model is known as the DL-21 and despite being little seen or known actually appears in all three [[Star Wars: The Original Trilogy|original trilogy films]] to some degree. The original prop was a cut down [[Armalite AR-7]] using a either a modified [[Sterling SMG]] grip or a simple rubberised rod of some sort.

[[File:Charter Arms Explorer II pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Charter Arms Explorer II - .22 LR]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01_01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian's arsenal as seen in "Chapter 1". The DL-21 is the second from the bottom in the left lane.]]

==Palmer Cap-Chur Short Range Projector==
A heavily modified [[Palmer Cap-Chur Short Range Projector]] is seen in the Mandalorian's arsenal, as well as in the hands of Burg ([[Clancy Brown]]) in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner".

[[File:Cap-Chur_Short.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Palmer Cap-Chur Short Range Projector with front sight removed.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01_00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian's arsenal as seen in "Chapter 1". The modified Palmer Cap-Chur Short Range Projector is second from the bottom in the right column.]]
[[File:Mrkrabss2994655.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Burg ([[Clancy Brown]]) duel-wielding heavily modified Palmer Cap-Chur Short Range Projectors in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner".]]

==Webley & Scott No. 4 Mk. I==
A [[Webley & Scott No. 4 Mk. I]] with a collar on the barrel is one of the weapons in the Mandalorian's arsenal. This is also one of the weapons that is picked up and examined by Cara in "Chapter 7: The Reckoning".

[[File:WebSig2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Webley & Scott No. 4 Mk. I Signal Pistol - 37 mm]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Webley & Scott signal pistol is visible on the top level of the Mandalorian's arsenal in "Chapter 1".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E7 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cara takes the modded Mk. I in "Chapter 7: The Reckoning".]]

==EC-17 Hold-out Blaster==

The EC-17 Hold-out Blaster is the standard issue blaster pistol of the Imperial Scout Trooper. It is not based on any existing pistol, but rather made entirely for Star Wars.
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Unknown==
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:Fringinin.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:Fringggin2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

=Blaster Rifles=

==Amban sniper rifle==
The Amban sniper rifle is used by the Mandalorian as his primary weapon. In "Chapter 4: Sanctuary", Cara borrows it from the Mandalorian and uses it to good effect. In some of the original concept art for the series, the rifle was built off of an [[AKM]] receiver. However, the actual rifle used appears to be an entirely fabricated prop. The weapon was first seen by audiences being wielded by Boba Fett in an animated section of the 1978 Star Wars Holiday Special.

[[File:Mandalorian Amban rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Amban sniper rifle.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E02 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closeup of the Amban's stock, trigger and trigger guard in "Chapter 2: The Child".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E02 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A full shot of the Amban. Note that the scope is improvised to be used for sniping.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E02 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Doing a reload.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Using the Amban to electronically eavesdrop on a couple of POIs in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:The Mandalorian Cara with Amban Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cara aims the Amban sniper rifle in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary".]]

==Beretta M12==
A [[Beretta M12]]-based blaster rifle is seen with armed characters in the season.

[[File:Beretta M12 Brown-Grips.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta M12 - 9x19mm Parabellum]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In "Chapter 1", the armed criminal on the left engages the Mandalorian and IG-11.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Guild bounty hunter on the right engages the Mandalorian in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]

==BlasTech E-11 Blaster Rifle (Sterling SMG)==
The BlasTech E-11 Blaster Rifle, based on an airsoft [[Sterling SMG]], is used by IG-11 as one of its weapons in "Chapter 1". Remnant Stormtroopers use them as their main rifle, sometimes outfitted with tac lights. Moff Gideon's Stormtroopers also use them.

[[File:S&T Sterling L2A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|S&T Sterling L2A1 - 6mm BBs]]
[[Image:SWE11br.jpg|thumb|none|400px|BlasTech E-11 blaster]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The IG-11 fires from behind cover in "Chapter 1".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The RS shoulders the E-11 while searching for the Mandalorian in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E7 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The E-11 seen with Gideon's Stormtroopers in "Chapter 7: The Reckoning".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A nice closeup shot of the E-11 in "Chapter 8: The Redemption".]]

==Bren Mk1==
A heavily modified [[Bren Mk1]] is one of the weapons in the Mandalorian's arsenal. The original magazine well has been covered over and instead a double drum from an [[MG34]] is fitted to the bottom of the receiver, and a second barrel has been mounted in place of the gas piston tube. In "Chapter 7: The Reckoning", Cara takes the blaster from the Mandalorian's arsenal as her primary weapon.

[[File:Bren gun.JPG|thumb|400px|none|Bren Mk1 (M) - .303 British]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The double barrels of the modified Bren can be seen in "Chapter 1". Note that the right barrel has the original left side offset front sight, indicating that the right hand barrel is the original "real" barrel of the Bren.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E7 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The modded Mk1 with Cara after she takes it from the armory in "Chapter 7: The Reckoning".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A shot of the modded LMG with a drum mag in "Chapter 8: The Redemption".]]
[[File:Groupmando.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cara is seen wielding the modified Bren.]]

==E-22 Blaster Rifle (Sterling SMG)==
In "Chapter 3: The Sin", one of the Remnant Stormtroopers uses what appears to be an E22 Blaster rifle, as seen in Rogue One, this one outfitted with a tac light. These blasters are also based on airsoft [[Sterling SMG]]s, like the E-11.

[[File:S&T Sterling L2A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|S&T Sterling L2A1 - 6mm BBs]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An armed RS sweeps an empty room in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A shot of the modded Sterling as the E-22.]]

==Defense Technologies 37mm Gas Gun==
The [[Defense Technologies 37mm Gas Gun]] is seen in the show as modded for laser rifles. They appear in several episodes being carried by various background characters along with being present in the Mandalorian's arsenal. They are also the standard weapon carried by a group of Fighting Corps Mandalorians during a Clone Wars era flashback in "Chapter 8: Redemption".

[[File:DefTech1315.jpg|thumb|none|450px|DefTech 1315 - 37mm]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Guild bounty hunter engages Mandalorian reinforcements in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Fighting Corp Mandalorian takes out a Separatist droid in a flashback in "Chapter 8: The Redemption".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FC Mandalorians engage Separatist droids.]]

==DLT-20A Laser Rifle==
A DLT-20A Laser Rifle (built from an [[Sturmgewehr 44]] and a [[Browning M1919A4]] barrel) is used by IG-11 in "Chapter 1" along side an E-11 Blaster Rifle. It also uses in "Chapter 8: Redemption".

[[File:Sturmgewehr 44.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sturmgewehr 44 - 7.92x33mm Kurz]]
[[File:M1919a4 pre 1943.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Browning M1919A4 fitted with bolt latch - .30-06]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The IG-11 fires from behind cover in "Chapter 1".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|IG-11 dual-wields the DLT-20A Laser Rifle and E-11 Blaster Rifle in "Chapter 8: Redemption."]]

==Tru Flite 37mm Super Long Range Gas Gun==
A [[Tru Flite 37mm Super Long Range Gas Gun]] is seen in the show as modded for laser rifles.

[[File:Tru-Flite-37mm-Super-Long-Range-Gas-Gun.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Tru Flite 37mm Super Long Range Gas Gun - 37mm]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Guild bounty hunter engages Mandalorian reinforcements in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]

==Winchester Model 1887==
The lead Klatooinian raider carries a blaster rifle based around a sawn-off [[Winchester Model 1887]].

[[File:M1887 Airsoft.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Airsoft Replica of the Winchester 1887 shotgun used in ''Terminator 2'' - (fake) 12 gauge]]
[[File:Klatooinian 1887.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The leader of the Klatooinian raiders carries his blaster rifle in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary".]]

==Relby V10 Targeting Rifle (Schermuly Multi-Purpose Gun)==
A Relby V10 Targeting Rifle appears in the Mandalorian's Arsenal in "Chapter 1". The same weapon appears in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary", where the Mandolorian gives it to Omera ([[Julia Jones]]) who uses it to great effect during the battle against the Klatooinian raiders. This blaster is based around a [[Schermuly Multi-Purpose Gun]] fitted with twin Sherman Tank gunsights. This blaster was previously seen in the hands of Bossk in [[Star_Wars:_The_Original_Trilogy|The Empire Strikes Back]].

[[File:WebleySchermuly37mm.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Schermuly Multi-Purpose Gun - 37mm.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The front end of the Relby V10 can be seen in the Mandalorian's arsenal in "Chapter 1".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Zabrak member of the Bounty Hunters' Guild carries an identical weapon in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:American180.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Omera ([[Julia Jones]]) practising with the Relby V10 in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary".]]

==Federal Gas Riot Gun==
A [[Federal Gas Riot Gun]] modded as a blaster rifle is one of the weapons in the Mandalorian's arsenal which is used by a villager in "Chapter 4: The Sanctuary". This is also one of the weapons that is picked up and examined by Cara in "Chapter 7: The Reckoning".

[[File:L-5-Federa-Gas-Riot-Gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Federal L-5 Gas Riot Gun - 37mm]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E04 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The villager aims the modded Federal Gas Riot Gun in "Chapter 4: The Sanctuary".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E7 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cara examines the modded L-5 in "Chapter 7: The Reckoning".]]

==Dragunov SVD==
In Episode 5, mercenary assassin Fennec Shrand ([[Ming-Na Wen]]) is seen using a scoped blaster rifle based around a [[SVD Dragunov]] (or, more likely, an airsoft replica thereof).

[[File:SVD Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Dragunov SVD - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E05 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close-up shot of the rifle's muzzle; considering the position of the gas tube, the barrel has evidently been considerably shortened. The handguard is also modified, considering the curious backwards-slanted end.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E05 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A good shot of the receiver; while the handguard has been extended over the magazine well, and a large cheek-rest has been added to the stock, the distinctive shapes of the stock and receiver are still apparent.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E05 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|And, finally, a good shot of the scope, somewhat atypically attached to the receiver cover, with a red-dot sight attached to it.]]

==Ottoman Musket==
Tusken Raider are seen with an [[Jezail Musket|Ottoman-pattern musket]]; unlike many other weapons in the series, this one seems more or less completely unaltered, possibly being meant as an actual projectile-firing musket (which the Tuskens are noted to use in some lore sources).

[[File:Ottoman musket.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ottoman-pattern musket]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E05 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Tusken Raider with his musket in "Chapter 5: The Gunslinger".]]

==EE-3 Carbine Rifle (Webley & Scott Flare Gun)==
The droid bounty hunter Zero (voiced by [[Richard Ayoade]]) carries an EE-3 carbine rifle in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner". The EE-3 is built from a [[Webley No. 1 Mark 1 flare gun]] that has been fitted with a finned barrel shroud and a scope. This is the variant of the EE-3 that was previously seen in ''[[Star_Wars:_The_Original_Trilogy#EE-3_Carbine_Rifle_.28Webley_.26_Scott_Flare_Gun.29|Return of the Jedi]]'' (and the special edition version of ''A New Hope'') as opposed to the simpler variant from ''The Empire Strikes Back''.

[[File:Webley & Scott Number 1 Mark I Flare Pistol.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Webley & Scott No.1 Mark 1 Flare Gun - 37mm]]
[[Image:SWBobafett.jpg|thumb|none|400px|EE-3 Blaster Carbine.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E06 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Zero makes his entrance in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner".]]
[[File:Droid9399465588.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Zero secures his EE-3 carbine inside the Mandalorian's ship.]]

==Unknown==
[[File:TMDLRNS01E04 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

=Special Weapons=

==Flamethrower==
A flamethrower is seen with the Mandalorian mounted on his wrist gloves.

[[File:The Mandalorian left arm gauntlet.JPG|thumb|none|250px|The Mandalorian wrist gauntlet.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian ''roasts'' an RS alive in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E06 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The flamethrower being ''introduced'' to NR droids in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner".]]

=="Whistling Birds" Mini-Missile Launcher==
A mini-missile launcher is seen with the Mandalorian mounted on his wrist gloves. The projectiles it fires are called "whistling birds", appear to be guided munitions, and emit a distinctive whistling sound in flight.

[[File:The Mandalorian left arm gauntlet.JPG|thumb|none|250px|The Mandalorian wrist gauntlet.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The mini-missiles being prepped to fire in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The missiles launched at several RS forces surrounding the Mandalorian.]]

=Heavy Weapons=

==Fictional Heavy Blaster==
A handheld [[Minigun]]-styled blaster machine gun is seen in "Chapter 3: The Sin" with Mandalorian fighter Paz Vizla ([[Tait Fletcher]]). The receiver appears to be based on an enlarged [[MG42]] receiver and near section of the barrel shroud, whilst the three barrels are styled on [[MG34]] barrels.

[[File:Minigun 1.JPG|thumb|none|400px|"Ol' Painless" Handheld M134 Minigun with a M60 handguard - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Mg-34man-portable.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MG34 with 50 round belt drum - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[File:mg42drummag.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MG42 with drum magazine - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 18.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Paz arriving to support the Mandalorian in "Chapter 3: The Sin".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E03 19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Side view of the handheld machine gun.]]

==M61 Vulcan==
A [[M61 Vulcan]]-based blaster machine gun is seen in "Chapter 1" when armed crooks take on the Mandalorian and the IG-11. It's seen abandoned in a flashback sequence in "Chapter 7: The Reckoning".

[[File:M61 Vulcan machine gun.jpg|thumb|none|450px|GE M61 Vulcan Cannon - 20x102mm]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The machine gun fired on IG-11 in "Chapter 1".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian seizes control of the machine gun.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E7 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In "Chapter 7: The Reckoning", the machine gun blaster is seen abandoned after IG-11/Mandalorian raids a criminal safehouse.]]

==E-Web Heavy Blaster==
An E-Web Heavy Blaster is used by Moff Gideon's force during the siege at Nevarro in "Chapter 8: The Redemption". The Mandalorian takes it from the tripod and uses it against Gideon's Stormtroopers.

[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cara watches Gideon's Stormtroopers prep the E-Web in "Chapter 8: The Redemption".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The E-Web turret installed on the tripod.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Full shot of the E-Web with tripod.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian fires the E-Web turret with his hands.]]

==Oppressor Flamethrower==
The Oppressor Flamethrower is seen with an Incinerator Stormtrooper called in to raze the cantina used by the Mandalorian's party to hide near the end of "Chapter 8: The Redemption".

[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The IS uses the oppressor flamethrower in "Chapter 8: The Redemption".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E08 14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closeup of the OF used.]]

=Others=

==Razor Crest Arsenal==
The Mandalorian has an arsenal of small arms inside the ''Razor Crest''. Almost all of them are actual firearms or air guns that are modified to give them a sci-fi appearance. Most (if not all) of these are used by villagers in "Chapter 4: Sanctuary". All of the blasters in the arsenal end up being used by various characters throughout season one.

[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A sample of the small arms the Mandalorian keeps in "Chapter 1". The guns on the right side include an Acvoke air pistol, a [[Webley & Scott No. 4 Mk. I]], a modified [[Beretta PM12S]], a modified [[Armalite AR-7#Charter Arms Explorer|Charter Arms Explorer II]], a [[Palmer Cap-Chur Short Range Projector]], and a [[Webley Senior Air Pistol]]. The three guns on the left are a [[Webley Tempest Air Pistol]], an [[Apache Fireball Air Pistol]], and a modified [[Astra 400]].]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E01 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A better shot of the arsenal's interior. To the right, a [[Schermuly Multi-Purpose Gun]] and a [[DefTech 1315]] can be seen.]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E06 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Burg checks the arsenal in "Chapter 6: The Prisoner".]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E06 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E7 08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:TMDLRNS01E7 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Jawa Small Arms==
The Mandalorian encounters a bunch of unhappy Jawas armed with small weapons in "Chapter 2: The Child".

[[File:TMDLRNS01E02 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mandalorian encounters a bunch of unhappy Jawas in "Chapter 2: The Child".]]

[[Category:Action]]
[[Category:Drama]]
[[Category:Jon Favreau]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Thriller]]
[[Category:War]]

John Wick: Chapter 2

2018-04-20T08:49:31Z

Cozmo: /* Beretta 85BB */ Changed the title to Beretta Cheetah, since it's inconclusive exactly what model is represented in film. Corrected someone else's poorly-written description of how it was used in the film. Added a photo.

{{incomplete}}

{{Infobox Movie
|name=John Wick: Chapter 2
|picture=JohnWick2.jpg
|caption=Video Cover
|country=[[Image:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|director=Chad Stahelski
|date=2017
|studio=87Eleven Thunder Road Pictures
|distributor=Summit Entertainment
|character1=John Wick
|actor1=[[Keanu Reeves]]
|character2=Cassian
|actor2=[[Common]]
|character3=Helen Wick
|actor3=[[Bridget Moynahan]]
|character4=Winston
|actor4=[[Ian McShane]]
|character5=Aurelio
|actor5=[[John Leguizamo]]
|character6=Charon
|actor6=[[Lance Reddick]]
}}

'''''John Wick: Chapter 2''''' is the 2017 sequel to 2014's ''[[John Wick]]''. Chad Stahelski returns as director and [[Keanu Reeves]] as Wick, who finds himself coming out of retirement when rivals attempt to take over a criminal syndicate. The cast includes returning actors [[Ian McShane]], [[John Leguizamo]] and [[Lance Reddick]], in addition to [[Common]], [[Ruby Rose]] and [[Laurence Fishburne]] reuniting onscreen with Reeves for the first time since ''[[The Matrix Revolutions]]''.

{{Film Title}}
__TOC__ 

=Handguns=
==1911==
During the first fight against John Wick, Cassian ([[Common]]) uses what appears to be a two-tone [[M1911 pistol series|1911]] before being disarmed; this is a continuity error, as he was using an [[Arsenal Strike One]] in earlier shots. Some henchmen also use 1911s, which allows John to pick up a magazine and load it into his Kimber 1911 before the mirrors scene. John Wick also uses a compensated reversed two-tone 1911 in the final scene at the Continental, which could be a continuity error as that scene was directly after his fight with Ares, in which he picked up her SW1911SC instead.
[[Image:JW2CommonvsWick.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Behind the scenes shot.]]
[[Image:JW2 653.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The 1911 put on a table by Wick in the Continental.]]

==Arsenal AF-1 Strike One==

Cassian ([[Common]]) carries a two-tone [[Arsenal Strike One|Arsenal USA AF-1 Strike One]]. He first used it unsuppressed in Rome and used it suppressed in New York.

[[File:Arsenal-USA-AF1.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Arsenal USA AF-1 Strike One - 9x19mm used in the movie. Credit/courtesy to '''Xtreme Props''' for the image shown.]]
[[Image:JW2Common.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cassian aiming his suppressed Strike One during the subway fight.]]

==Beretta Cheetah==
Earl, one of the Bowery King's men, kills two assassins looking for John in the subway with a suppressed [[Beretta_Cheetah]] or 80 Series with rounded trigger guard. D’Antonio wields one at the end of the movie, though he never fires it. It's difficult to tell if the guns used are the Model 84BB or 85BB, since the two models are almost identical except for capacity (the 84 holds 13 rounds while the 85 holds eight), and only two rounds are fired from one during the entire film.
[[Image:Beretta 85BB.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Beretta 85BB - 8 round single stack - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:JohnWick2 41.jpg|thumb|none|600px|D’Antonio armed with the [[Beretta Cheetah]].]]
[[Image:Earl-beretta85.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Heyyy, man, you got a quarter?" Earl holding the Beretta Cheetah as John hides beside him.]]

==CZ P-09==
The Sumo assassin (Yama) uses a suppressed [[CZ P-09]] pistol until Wick disarms him and takes the pistol.
[[File:CZP09.jpg|thumb|none|300px|CZ P-09 - 9x19mm Parabellum]]
[[File:JohnWick2 29.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Sumo assassin (Yama) uses a suppressed [[CZ P-09]] pistol during a confrontation with Wick.]]

==Glock 17==
John uses multiple [[Glock 17]] pistols during the final battle after his Kimber 1911 runs empty. Some assassins use suppressed Glock 17s as well.
[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 (3rd Generation) - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:John Wick2 pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John loads the gun after checking the magazine.]]

==Glock 26==
A [[Glock 26]] compact pistol, John Wick's original backup sidearm, is seen in the case of weapons that Wick reburies in the floor (oddly, however, the Glock 26 he buries has a magazine with an extended baseplate - he did not use this in the first film). He retrieves another one from a deposit box but never uses it. He gets a new one from The Sommelier - like his Glock 34, it is also customized by TTI. He uses this G26 during his first fight with Cassian after being disarmed of his G34, then loses it when he returns to New York.
[[Image:Glock 26.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Glock 26 - 9x19mm Parabellum]]
[[Image:JW2G26A.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The actual G26 displayed at SHOT Show 2017.]]
[[Image:JW2 300.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A [[Glock 26]] compact pistol, John Wick's original backup sidearm, is seen in the case of weapons that Wick reburies in the floor (oddly, however, the Glock 26 he buries has a magazine with an extended baseplate - he did not use this in the first film.)]]
[[Image:JW2 G26B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Glock 34 (TTI John Wick Combat Master Package)==
John Wick ([[Keanu Reeves]]) uses a [[Glock 34]] customized with the Taran Tactical Innovations John Wick Combat Master Package. He acquired this gun as well as his backup [[Glock 26]], AR-15 and [[Benelli M Series Super 90 Shotguns|Benelli M4]] from The Sommelier (Peter Serafinowicz) in Rome.
[[Image:Glock34.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Glock 34 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:JW2G34.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The actual G34 displayed at SHOT Show 2017.]]
[[File:JW2 341.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Taran Tactical customized Glock 34 is seen next to the Glock 26 taken by The Sommelier.]]
[[File:JW2 319.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John Wick uses the Glock 34 to eliminate several gunmen.]]

==Heckler & Koch P30L==
John Wick's original sidearm, a compensator-fitted [[Heckler & Koch P30L]], is briefly used by him in the garage during the intro. He later reburies it alongside his equipment and the other guns he used in the first film.
[[Image:HK P30L.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch P30L - 9x19mm]]
[[File:JohnWick2 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John prepares to bury his HKP30, seen on the bottom right. Visible in the image is a Kel-Tec KSG and an AR-15, the KSG likely being the one he acquired from Tarasov's henchmen in the previous film.]]

==Kimber Warrior==
Wick receives a [[Kimber Warrior]] from The Bowery King ([[Laurence Fishburne]]) with only 1 magazine containing exactly 7 rounds for the final battle. In the mirrors scene, the SIG Sauer P320 Wick took earlier changes to this gun which is a continuity error.
[[Image:KimberWarriorII.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:JW2Kimber1911.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Bowery King presents John with what he describes as the "Kimber 1911, .45 ACP".]]
[[Image:JW21911.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John Wick loads his Kimber.]]
[[File:JW2 652.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wick checks the chamber one-handed.]]
[[Image:JW2 317.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wick employs the C.A.R. stance, Kimber in his hands.]]

==SIG-Sauer P320==
Some of the guards following Ares carries [[SIG-Sauer P320]] pistols; during the mirrors scene, Wick takes a couple of them from two different guards and uses them before his fight with Ares ([[Ruby Rose]]).
[[File:SIGP320.jpg|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer P320 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:JW2 671.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

==Smith & Wesson SW1911SC "E-Series"==
John Wick ([[Keanu Reeves]]) uses a suppressed [[M1911 pistol series#Smith & Wesson SW1911|Smith & Wesson SW1911SC "E-Series"]] during the subway fight (this is a continuity error, as he picked up a CZ P-09 and not this gun; the CZ changed to this after the earlier fountain shootout scene). Ares ([[Ruby Rose]]) also uses one (unsuppressed) in the catacombs and in the final fight (suppressor fitted).
[[File:SW1911SC E Series.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Smith & Wesson SW1911SC "E-Series" - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:JW2 310.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bloodied-face Wick drawing his suppressed SW1911. Note the slide serrations.]]
[[Image:JW2 735.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ares with her suppressed SW1911.]]
[[Image:JW2 537.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closer look at Ares' glutes... err, empty SW1911.]]

==Unidentified pistol==
An unidentified pistol is used by a seamstress to demonstrate the effectiveness of the bulletproof vests.
[[Image:JW2 34.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

=Rifles/Carbines=
==M4A1==
One of Ares' men is also seen with a [[M4A1]]. Oddly, in the mirrors hall fight, he is armed with a full-rail AR-15 instead.
[[File:ColtM4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Colt M4A1 Carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:JW2 M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The henchman in the foreground is seen with the rifle.]]

==SIG SG 550==
One of the guards following Ares ([[Ruby Rose]]) appears to be armed with the [[SIG SG 550]] rifle. This particular guard is armed with a SG 552 rifle during the mirrors hall fight instead.
[[Image:SIG550.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SIG SG 550 assault rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:JW2 303.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle is seen in the background right.]]

==SIG SG 552==
A [[SIG SG 552]] is used by a guard. Oddly, in a previous scene, these rifles had rear sights, but in the mirrors scene, they are missing the rear sights.
[[File:SIG SG 553-2.jpg|thumb|450px|none|SIG SG 552-2, version with permanent scope rail - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:JW2 315.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle is seen on the left. Note the missing rear sight.]]
[[Image:JW2 318.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another guard with the SG 552 getting a surprise attack from Wick.]]

==TTI TR-1 AR-15==
Wick uses a "Taran Tactical Innovations Rifle model TR", fitted with BCM parts, compensator, a 1-6x24 Trijicon Accupoint scope with an RMR on a canted rail and Magpul PMAGs. The Sommelier describes it as having an 11.5" barrel, but the weapon seems to have a longer one (about 14.5"). Wick fires it semi-automatically most of the times. A guard following Ares ([[Ruby Rose]]) is also seen with one in a similar configuration in the mirrors scene.
[[File:Taran-Tactical-TR-U1-Ultralight.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Taran Tactical Innovations TR-1 Ultralight rifle with Trijicon AccuPoint - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:John Wick's TTI TR-1 AR-15.jpg|thumb|none|500px|John Wick's TTI TR-1 AR-15]]
[[Image:JW2AR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John Wick ([[Keanu Reeves]]) checks his "AR-15".]]
[[Image:John Wick2 AR 01.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Note the Taran Tactical logo on the lower receiver.]]
[[Image:John Wick2 AR 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The TTI rifle in the lower left corner. Here the BCM furniture can be seen.]]
[[Image:John Wick2 AR 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wick chambering a round in his TTI rifle. Note that the magazines have been fitted with Taran Tactical PMAG extensions, which allows the mags to hold 5 more rounds.]]
[[Image:John Wick2 AR 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wick firing his TTI TR-1 AR-15 rifle.]]
[[Image:JW2 315.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The guard on the right is seen with the rifle.]]

=Shotgun=

==Benelli M4 Super 90 (TTI M4 Upgrade Package)==
John uses a [[Benelli M4 Super 90]] during the fight in the catacombs. It is fitted with a fixed stock and customized by TTI. When he shoots it for the first time, he fires 11 rounds before reloading; this would be only possible with an extended tube capacity of 9+1 shells and by having ghost loaded an 11th shell.
[[Image:TTI Benelli M4.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Taran Tactical Innovations M4 Upgrade Package Benelli M4 - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:JW2 BM4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John checks out the Benelli M4 Super 90.]]
[[Image:JW2 BM4 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John using the Benelli in the catacombs; note the spare shell.]]

=Launcher=

==ARWEN 37==
An [[ARWEN 37]] standing in for an explosive launcher is used by Santino D’Antonio ([[Riccardo Scamarcio]]) to destroy John Wick's house.
[[Image:Arwen 37.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Arwen gas grenade launcher - 37mm]]
[[File:JohnWick2 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An ARWEN 37 is used by Santino D’Antonio.]]
[[File:JW2 304.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming...]]
[[File:JW2 305.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and firing.]]

=Arsenals=
==The Wick Arsenal==
At the film's beginning, John is seen burying again his cache of weapons, which includes a [[Kel-Tec KSG]], a [[Coharie Arms CA-415]], possibly another CA-415 with a suppressor, a [[Heckler & Koch P30L]], and a [[Glock 26]] with a magazine that has an extended baseplate.
[[File:JohnWick2 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John prepares to bury his HKP30, seen on the bottom right and the cache also includes a [[Kel-Tec KSG]], a [[Coharie Arms CA-415]], possibly another CA-415 with a suppressor.]]
[[File:JW2 300.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John buries the final case, with the [[Glock 26]] with a magazine that has an extended baseplate.]]

==The Sommelier's Armory==
When gearing up, John visits the Sommelier (Peter Serafinowicz) and picks out several weapons from the arsenal.
[[Image:JW2Weapons.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Sommelier (Peter Serafinowicz) presents several weapons for John.]]
[[File:JW2Armory1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several pistols (including Glocks and Berettas) and an M79 grenade launcher are seen to John's left and several rifles behind the Sommelier.]]
[[File:JW2Armory2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several rifles are seen behind the Sommelier (Peter Serafinowicz). Visible is are two Beretta SCP-70/90s, several MP5Ks, multiple AR-15 type rifles and several Beretta PM12s.]]

==The Tailor's Arsenal==
What appear to be two [[Coharie Arms CA-415]] rifles, a [[TDI Vector|KRISS SDP]] and a [[Heckler & Koch MP5]] are seen at the workplace of the tailor Angelo (Luca Mosca).
[[File:JW2 95.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:JW2 136.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

==The Bowery King's Armory==
John also makes a visit to the headquarters of the Bowery King ([[Laurence Fishburne]]), which contains a cache of carbines, submachine guns and [[RPG-7]] launchers.
[[File:JW2BoweryKing.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A cache of carbines, submachine guns, and rifles are seen behind the Bowery King ([[Laurence Fishburne]]) in this production image.]]
[[File:JohnWick2 31.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The RPG-7 launchers at the left, along with other weapons including a Heckler & Koch MP5.]]
[[File:JohnWick2 32.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

{{Film Action}}

File:Earl-beretta85.jpg

2018-04-20T08:13:48Z

Cozmo: Earl, an aide to the Bowery King, having just killed two assassins looking for the fugitive John Wick with his suppressed Beretta Cheetah.

Earl, an aide to the Bowery King, having just killed two assassins looking for the fugitive John Wick with his suppressed Beretta Cheetah.

Inception

2018-04-20T05:17:42Z

Cozmo: /* Beretta Px4 Storm */ Updated a poor explanation the image of Cobb catching brass as it ejects from the pistol.

{{Infobox Movie|{{PAGENAME}}
|name=Inception
|picture=Inception poster.jpg
|caption=''Cinema poster''
|country=[[Image:USA.jpg|25px]] United States [[Image:UKD.jpg|25px]] UK
|director=Christopher Nolan
|date=2010
|language=English Japanese French
|studio=Warner Bros. Syncopy
|distributor=Warner Bros.
|character1=Dom Cobb
|actor1=[[Leonardo DiCaprio]]
|character2=Arthur
|actor2=[[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]
|character3=Ariadne
|actor3=[[Ellen Page]]
|character4=Eames
|actor4=[[Tom Hardy]]
|character5=Mr. Saito
|actor5=[[Ken Watanabe]]
|character6=Yusuf
|actor6=[[Dileep Rao]]
|character7=Robert Michael Fisher
|actor7=[[Cillian Murphy]]
|character8= Peter Browning
|actor8=[[Tom Berenger]]
|character9=Mallorie 'Mal' Cobb
|actor9=[[Marion Cotillard]]
|character10=Prof. Stephen Miles
|actor10=[[Michael Caine]]
}}

'''''Inception''''' is a 2010 science fiction thriller from director [[Christopher Nolan]] (''[[The Dark Knight]]'') and stars [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] as a man who specializes in infiltrating people's minds through their dreams and stealing their deepest secrets. The cast included [[Michael Caine]], [[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]], [[Tom Hardy]], [[Marion Cotillard]], and [[Ellen Page]].

{{Film Title}}

__TOC__ 
{{Spoilers}}

=Pistols=

== Beretta Px4 Storm ==
Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) carries throughout the film a [[Beretta Px4 Storm]] with a threaded barrel as his sidearm. He's also seen using it with a suppressor.
[[Image:Px4_Storm.jpg‎‎|thumb|300px|none|Beretta Px4 Storm - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb draws his Beretta Storm and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) with his Glock in a production still.]]
[[Image:Incep 1101.jpg|thumb|none|600px|‎About to storm the hotel room with Arthur.]]
[[Image:INCPT-92FS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note extended barrel.]]
[[Image:Inception.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb loads his Beretta...]]
[[Image:Inception1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and chambers it.]]
[[Image:INCPT-PX4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) aiming his Px4 with suppressor in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:Incep 1113.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another view of Cobb aiming the suppressed Px4.]]
[[Image:Inception3.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Cobb fires his suppressed Beretta Px4 while being pursued by Saito's subconscious guards.]]
[[Image:Inception-Px4Suprressor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb threads a suppressor onto his Beretta. ]]
[[File:Incep 1112.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb fires his suppressed Beretta. Note that when he kills those 2 or 3 guards he actually puts his gloved left hand over the ejection port to catch the shells in order to prevent any others from being alerted by brass hitting the floor.]]
[[Image:Inception 7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Adriane ([[Ellen Page]]) holds Cobb's Beretta.‎]]

== Beretta 92FS ==
The [[Beretta 92FS]] is used by several of the men chasing Cobb in the opening dream as well as during the chase in Mobasa. The men of Fischer's militarized subconscious who attack Arthur in the second level dream also use the Beretta. Arthur is then seen with the Beretta.
[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Inception-BerettaIntro.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A Japanese guard firing his Beretta at Cobb.]]
[[Image:Incept 108.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Beretta 92FS on the ground as Arthur fights a dream mercenary.]]
[[Image:Inception-Beretta.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur takes down a subconscious guard with the guard's Beretta.]]
[[Image:Incept 110.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur finds the empty Beretta.]]
[[Image:Incept 319.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Paradox." Arthur holds the thug's Beretta 92FS before dropping him.]]

== Beretta 92SB ==
Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) takes a [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92SB|Beretta 92SB]] from a subconscious security guard in the hotel room dream. Later he gives the pistol to Robert Fischer Jr. ([[Cillian Murphy]]).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Beretta 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]
[[Image:‎Inception10.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|Robert Fischer Jr. ([[Cillian Murphy]]) holds a [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92SB|Beretta 92SB]] to his head in the hotel washroom.]]

== SIG-Sauer P232 ==
A [[SIG-Sauer P230|SIG-Sauer P232]] is used by Mal ([[Marion Cotillard]]) to injure Arthur during the opening dream. She also appears to use it briefly on the third dream level.
[[Image:SIGP232.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 ACP/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Inception7.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A production still shows Mal ([[Marion Cotillard]]) holding the SIG.]]
[[Image:Incept 101.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mal ([[Marion Cotillard]]) holds the SIG on Cobb.]]
[[Image:Incept 103.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mal then holds the SIG on Arthur.]]

== Walther PPK ==
Saito ([[Ken Watanabe]]) is seen pulling a [[Walther PPK]] when he awakes from the opening dream. Cobb is later seen holding it.
[[Image:PPKS blued.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Walther PPK/S blued - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:INCPT-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saito pulls a Walther PPK on Arthur.]]
[[Image:Incept 105.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another view of Saito aiming the PPK.]]
[[Image:Incept 104.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb aiming the PPK at Saito after he was disarmed.]]

== Glock 17 ==

A [[Glock 17]] is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in the first and second dream levels. A subconscious guard chasing Cobb's team on a highway bridge is also seen firing a Glock.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Glock 17 (Gen 3) - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Incept.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Arthur on the left appears to have a Glock pistol.]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in a publicity still.]]
[[Image:Inception-G17Breach.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close up of the Glock 17 being aimed at a projection of Browning.]]
[[Image:Inception-G172.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A subconscious guard in the back holding a Glock 17 before Cobb kills him and his partner with the Glock.]]
[[Image:Inception2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his Glock 17 at Fischer's subconscious security. Judging by barrel size, this is a Non-gun or flashpaper gun.]]
[[Image:Inception 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the subconscious guards with his Glock 17 while confused by Yusef's flipping off at him.]]

== Heckler & Koch P2000 ==
Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) carries the [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] during the downtown dream. It is seen quite clearly in a close up, at the warehouse.
[[Image:P2000_9.jpg‎|none|300px|thumb|Heckler & Koch P2000 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:INCPT-Glock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) fires his pistol.]]
[[Image:Inception 8.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Another view of Eames firing the P2000.]]
[[Image:Inception-USPCompact.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A P2000 sitting by Eames.]]

===Behind the Scenes===
[[Image:P2000-I.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A production still of Eames holding the P2000 in the first level.]]

== Browning BDM ==

A [[Browning BDM]] is pulled by Saito on the first level (Downtown). In a few shots on the third dream level, he is seen holding one.
[[Image:Bdm 1.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Browning BDM - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Inception_9.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Saito ([[Ken Watanabe]]) aims his Browning BDM during the downtown dream. ]]
[[Image:Inception-BDM.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saito takes out an MP5A3-wielding subconscious guard with his BDM.]]

== Vektor CP1==
A black [[Vektor CP1]] is used by Saito on the third dream level (Fischer's Winter Fortress). Oddly, he is seen handling his Browning BDM in a few shots before Eames hands him the CP1.

[[Image:VektorCP1Pistol.jpg‎ |thumb|none|300px|Vektor CP1 - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:Inception13.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Eames handing Saito the CP1.]]
[[Image:Inception14.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Saito ([[Ken Watanabe]]) fires his Vektor CP1 pistol.]]

== SIG-Sauer P226 ==
A [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series|SIG-Sauer P226]] is used by Fischer in the third dream level (Fischer's Winter Fortress).
[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|300px| SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:Incept 310.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Fischer entering the fortress via air duct vents.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 19==

One of the men on the motorcycles that chases Cobb's team is armed with a [[Smith & Wesson Model 19]].

[[Image:Smith&Wesson-Model-19.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 19 Combat Magnum - .357 magnum.]]
[[Image:Inception-MotorModel19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The motorcycle rider fires his Smith & Wesson Model 19 at the van.]]

==SIG-Sauer P239==
Yusuf ([[Dileep Rao]]) uses a [[SIG-Sauer P239]] with a stainless slide while shooting it out on the bridge.
[[Image:SIGSauerP239TwoTone.jpg|thumb|none|300px|SIG-Sauer P239 with black frame and Silver Slide - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Inception_4.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Yusuf ([[Dileep Rao]]) fires his pistol.]]

== SIG-Sauer P228 ==
[[SIG-Sauer P228]]s are used by some of the Cobol Engineering guards chasing Cobb in Mombasa.
[[Image:Sig-Sauer-P228.jpg|thumb|none|300px|SIG-Sauer P228 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Inception-SIGSauerP228?.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Cobel Engineering guard with his P228 before being knocked out by a car door.]]
[[Image:Inception_P228.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot of the same scene, showing the P228.]]

== Unknown 1911 Variant ==
One of Saito's bodyguards offers Cobb his pistol to deal with Nash ([[Lukas Haas]]) after he sells them out. While the pistol can not be seen clearly, it appears to be a 1911 variant with Pachmayr grips.
[[Image:IMG 1666.JPG|thumb|none|300px|Kimber Warrior with Pachmayr grips (for comparison) - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Incep1911-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saito's guard offers his 1911 to Cobb (circled in red).]]
[[Image:Incep1911.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Pachmayr grips can just barely be seen in the lower right corner.]]

=Shotguns=

== Sawed-Off Double Barreled Shotgun ==

One of Fischer's subconscious security aboard a motorcycle chasing Cobb's team carries a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun#Short barreled Side by Side Shotgun (Sawed Off)|Sawed-Off Double Barrel Shotgun]].

[[Image:Remington SBS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Spartan Sawed Off shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:INCPT-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The subconscious guard draws out his sawed off shotgun.]]
[[Image:Incept1.JPG|thumb|none|601px|The guard with the sawed-off shotgun.]]
[[Image:Inception-SODBS.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The motorcycle rider with his sawed-off shotgun aimed at Yusuf before Yusef disarms him and knocks him off the motorcycle.]]

=Submachine Guns=

== Heckler & Koch MP5A3 ==
[[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5A3s]] in various configurations are used by Fischer's subconcious private security, particularly in the winter scene.

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm with stock extended - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:HKmp5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and safe-semi-two round burst trigger group - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Inception-MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A subconscious guard gets shot while holding an MP5A3. Note how it doesn't fire, despite the way his finger is placed. However, it could just be out of ammunition.]]
[[Image:Inception-MP5A32.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A subconscious guard in the third level with an MP5A3 fitted with a Surefire 628 weaponlight.]]

===Behind the Scenes===
[[Image:MP5A3-I.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A stuntman firing an MP5A3 at a taxi cab to achieve the bullet hole effects for the city level scene.]]
[[Image:MP5A3b-I.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor portraying Fischer's subconscious security opens up on Arthur's cab.]]

== Heckler & Koch MP5A2 ==
A few of Fischer's subconscious guards are seem with [[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5A2]]s.
[[Image:H&KMP5A2WideForearm.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 with "tropical" wide handguard - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Inception11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A snow fortress guard firing his MP5A2.]]‎
[[Image:Inception-MP5A2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A guard gets taken out by Eames while holding his MP5A2.]]

=Rifles=

==C1A1==
A Japanese security guard ([[Tohoru Masamune]]) in the film's opening carries an [[L1A1]] rifle with wooden handguards. The C1A1 is probably substituting for a [[Howa Type 64]], which is illegal to own and export outside Japan.

[[Image:C1A1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|L1A1 with wood furniture - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

[[Image:Incept 301.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Japanese security guard in the film's opening carries an [[L1A1]] rifle with wooden handguards.]]
[[Image:Inception-C1A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|While holding the L1A1, the Japanese guard ([[Tohoru Masamune]]) stares on before finding Cobb's Beretta.]]

== M4A1 Carbine ==

Fischer's various subconscious private security men or "dream mercenaries" are armed with [[M4A1]] carbines.

[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt M4A1 with 6 position collapsible stock - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Incept 303.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Subconscious guard firing M4A1 at Arthur, Saito and Eames.‎]]
[[Image:Incept 308.jpg|thumb|none|600px|‎A guard is struck by the taxi after Arthur reverses it.]]
[[Image:Inception-M4A1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A subconscious guard loads a fresh magazine into his M4A1 Carbine.]]
[[Image:Inception12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A snow fortress guard chases after Eames via skis.‎]]

===Behind the Scenes===
[[Image:M4-I.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A stuntman firing an M4A1 Carbine while rehearsing for the city level scene.]]
[[Image:M4b-I.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two actors portraying Fischer's subconscious guards fire their M4A1 Carbines.]]
[[Image:M4c-I.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The production crewman in the yellow poncho carries what appears to be an M4A1 Carbine with a flat top.]]

== FN SCAR-L ==

The [[FN SCAR-L]] with an ACOG scope is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) to engage some of Fischer's dream snipers before he is interrupted by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]).

[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|450px|none|FN SCAR-L - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Incept 405.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) firing his SCAR-L.]]
[[Image:Incept 404.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot of Arthur firing his FN SCAR-L at snipers.]]

== SIG SG 552 ==

A winter camouflaged [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] is used by Eames during the third level (Winter Fortress). Its stock and handguard are wrapped in cloth, and it appears to have a rail on the top of the receiver.

[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|450px|none|SIG SG 552 - 5.56x45mm]]

[[Image:Inception_5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|‎Eames taking cover from the fortress guard force while contacting Cobb.]]
[[Image:Incep 1204.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eames in the airduct system aiming the SG 552.]]
[[Image:Inception-SG552.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Eames runs to cover with a SG 552 in his left hand.]]

===Behind the Scenes===
[[Image:SG552-I.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A production still of Eames wielding the SIG SG 552.]]

== Norinco QBZ-97 ==

In the third level (Winter Fortress), a guard is briefly seen with a [[Norinco QB rifle series#Norinco QBZ-97|Norinco QBZ-97]] rifle.

[[Image:QBZ-97-with-Stanag-mag.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Norinco QBZ-97 - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:Inception-QBZ-97.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A guard with a Norinco QBZ-97 while ordering men to search for Cobb's team.]]

= Sniper Rifles =
== Blaser R93 LRS2 Precision Sniper Rifle ==

A winterized [[Blaser R93 Sniper Rifle|Blaser R93 LRS2 Precision Sniper Rifle]] is used with a suppressor by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) in Fischer's Winter Fortress dream.
[[Image:BlaserR93WithHarrisBipod.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Blaser R93 LRS2 Precision Sniper Rifle - .338 Lapua Magnum. This rifle has a Harris Bipod mounted.]]
[[Image:Inception8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Cobb with the Blaser rifle in a production still.]]
[[Image:Inception4.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Cobb scouts the base in the third level. In this shot, it is clear that there is a Leupold Mark4 scope + Barrett BORS system mounted on the rifle.]]
[[Image:Inception-Blaser.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb aims his suppressed Blaser R93 LRS2 at the winter fortress guards.]]
[[Image:Incep 1206.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The suppressor can be seen on the ported R93.]]
[[Image:Inception-Blaser2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close-up of the Blaser R93 LRS2, showing the Blaser markings.]]

== Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 ==
Fischer's subconscious sniper is seen attacking Cobb's group with a [[G3#Heckler & Koch G3SG/1|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1]] and later folds out the bipod before being shot down by Arthur's FN SCAR-L
[[Image:H&KSG1.jpg‎ |thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Inception-G3attacker.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper with his G3SG/1 while patrolling near the warehouse.]]
[[Image:Inception-G3sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper runs to cover with a Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 in his hands.]]
[[Image:Inception-sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper aims his G3SG/1 fitted with a bipod.]]

=Machine Guns=

==M240B Machine Gun==

A guard aboard a Humvee fires a mounted [[FN MAG#M240 Machine Gun|M240B]] while chasing Eames in the Winter Fortress dream before getting wiped out by Eames' bomb.

[[Image:M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M240B with newer style lower handguard (designed to attach RIS rails via hex nut) - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Inception 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The gunner fires his M240B at Eames.‎]]
[[Image:Incept 205.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The gunner manning the M240B while giving orders.]]
[[Image:Inception-GunnerM240B.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A close-up of the M240B as the gunner finds Eames' bomb.]]

=Other=

==Milkor MGL Mk 1L==

A [[MGL-140|Milkor MGL Mk 1L (MGL-140)]] with black finish is used by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) to take out the last warehouse attacker in the first level (City).

[[Image:MGL Mk 1 L.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Milkor MGL Mk 1L grenade launcher fitted with Armson OEG reflex sight - 40x46mm]]
[[Image:Inception6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|''"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling."'' Eames fires his Milkor MGL.]]
[[Image:Inception-Milkor.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The final shot from a different angle.]]

== Heckler & Koch P2A1 ==

A [[Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol]] is used by Eames to draw the guards away from the fortress in the third level (Winter Fortress).

[[Image:H&K P2A1.JPG|300px|thumb|none|Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol - 26.5mm]]
[[Image:Inception 3.jpg|600px|thumb|none|A [[Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol]] is used by Eames to draw the guards away from the fortress in the third level (Winter Fortress).‎]]

==M26 Hand Grenade==

Saito uses a [[M26 hand grenade]] (painted white) to ward off attackers during the winter scene. The grenade then explodes into flames, which is not possible as frag grenades explode into fragments and only incendiary grenades burst into flames. As this is a dream sequence, however, it is possible Eames or Saito was able to visualise a different reaction for the grenade.

[[Image:200px-M-67handgrenade.jpg|thumb|none|200px|M26 HE Frag hand grenade.]]
[[Image:M26-I.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eames gives an M26 hand grenade to Saito.]]
[[Image:Inception_6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saito ([[Ken Watanabe]]) with a M26 Hand Grenade‎.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Christopher Nolan]]
[[Category:Thriller]]
[[Category:British Produced/Filmed]]

Heat

2018-04-10T04:54:32Z

Cozmo: /* Heckler & Koch USP */

{{Infobox Movie|{{PAGENAME}}
|name=Heat
|picture=Heatposter.jpg
|caption=''Theatrical Release Poster''
|country=[[Image:USA.jpg|25px]] United States
|director=[[Michael Mann]]
|date= 1995
|studio=Regency Enterprises
|distributor=Warner Brothers
|character1=Lt. Vincent Hanna
|actor1=[[Al Pacino]]
|character2=Neil McCauley
|actor2=[[Robert De Niro]]
|character3=Chris Shiherlis
|actor3=[[Val Kilmer]]
|character4=Michael Cheritto
|actor4=[[Tom Sizemore]]
|character5=Sgt. Drucker
|actor5=[[Mykelti Williamson]]
|character6=Det. Casals
|actor6=[[Wes Studi]]
|character7=Waingro
|actor7=[[Kevin Gage]]
|character8=Roger Van Zant
|actor8=[[William Fichtner]]
|character9=Det. Bosko
|actor9=[[Ted Levine]]
|character10=Trejo
|actor10=[[Danny Trejo]]
}}

'''''Heat''''' is the 1995 crime drama directed by [[Michael Mann]] and marked the first onscreen pairing of legendary actors [[Al Pacino]] and [[Robert De Niro]]. Pacino stars in the film as Vincent Hanna, a relentless lieutenant in the LAPD's Robbery Homicide Division who is determined to take down a high end robbery crew led by master thief Neil McCauley (De Niro). Notable for its detailed depiction of the techniques used by both law enforcement and criminal elements, as well as exceptional and accurate gun handling, the film was first made as the 1989 television movie ''[[L.A. Takedown]]''. ''Heat'' also was reported to have been viewed repeatedly by the "High Incident Bandits" robbery duo involved in the infamous North Hollywood shootout (as depicted in the film ''[[44 Minutes: The North Hollywood Shootout]]'').

{{Film Title}}
__TOC__ 

{{spoiler}}

=Pistols=
==Colt M1991A1 Series 80 Officers ACP==
Lieutenant Vincent Hanna ([[Al Pacino]]) carries an ivory-gripped [[Colt Officer's ACP|Colt M1991A1 Series 80 Colt Officers ACP]] with a full-sized trigger and ring hammer as his sidearm in the film. Hanna carries his pistol on his waist in a crossdraw holster. Hanna's choice of sidearm might also be a nod to his service with the Marine Corps.
[[Image:Series80Heat.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The actual Colt Officers ACP used by [[Al Pacino]] during the film (picture supplied by Yourprops.com) - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Heat-ACP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lt. Hanna ([[Al Pacino]]) picks up his Colt Officers ACP on the table. Note the screwdriver indent in the spring cover, which was one of the "improvements" made to the Series 80 1911s.]]
[[Image:HeatACP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna's Colt in a cross draw holster.]]
[[Image:HeatColtOfficersACP-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna brass checks his gun while he and Casals are heading up the elevator to apprehend Hugh Benny. This particular way of doing a brass check was also seen performed by [[James Caan]] in [[Michael Mann]]'s film ''[[Thief]]''.]]
[[Image:HeatOfficersACP-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna is armed with the Colt Officer's ACP as he searches for McCauley at the airfield.]]
[[Image:HeatOfficersACP-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna searches for McCauley.]]
[[Image:HeatColtCommander-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna scans his surroundings.]]

==Heckler & Koch USP==
Neil McCauley ([[Robert De Niro]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch USP]] as his sidearm in the early scenes of the film. It is first seen during the armored car robbery, when he carries it in a holster on his tactical vest (along with five spare magazines). Note the checkered back of the grip and the shape of the external thumb safety and slide release, all uncommon to a [[SIG-Sauer P220]]. It is usually not seen clearly during the film, but the shape of the slide can easily be discerned during the shootout at the drive-in (when McCauley fires the gun through the window of his sedan at the shooter with the [[Steyr TMP]]). Neil then dumps his USP for the SIG-Sauer P220, most likely to get rid of the evidence, since it was used during the drive-in theater shootout.

''NOTE: IMFDB previously identified this USP as the .45 ACP model. This is likely inaccurate, because the USP-45 was not around at the time that the movie was filmed (it was introduced in May 1995, nearly two years after the USP-9 and USP-40, while ''[[Heat]]'' was filmed mostly during 1994). The USP in the movie is most likely a 9x19mm model, since most pistols in Hollywood's prop houses were chambered in this caliber at the time. Further evidence of the pistol's caliber can be seen during the armored car robbery; the magazines visible on McCauley's vest are made out of polymer, consistent with the mags found only on full-size 9mm and .40-caliber USP magazines, whereas USP-45 magazines are metal and have ribbed sides.''

[[Image:USP9mm.jpg‎ |thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch USP - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:HEATUSP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Neil McCauley searches for Waingro at the truck stop with his H&K USP in hand after the meeting at the café.]]
[[Image:usp_compact.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley lays his H&K USP on a table in his seaside house. Note the length of the grip, indicating it is NOT a USP-45.]]
[[Image:HeatUSP-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley fires his USP at Van Zant's assassin through the windshield of his sedan. As many know, gunfire inside a small place such as a car is deafeningly loud.]]

==SIG-Sauer P220==
After dumping his H&K USP after the drive-in theater shootout, Neil McCauley ([[Robert De Niro]]) replaces his USP with a [[SIG-Sauer P220]] in .45 ACP as his sidearm for the rest of the movie. In the script it is also mentioned that he holds a .45 caliber pistol.
[[Image:SigP220Black.jpg|thumb|none|300px|SIG-Sauer P220 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:heatstille.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A promotional still depicting [[Robert De Niro]] holding the P220 during the showdown between McCauley and Hanna at the airport.]]
[[Image:HeatSIGP220 - .45.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley hides his SIG-Sauer P220 under his leg when Hanna pulls him over and approaches his car.]]
[[Image:HeatSIGP220-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley keeps his SIG-Sauer P220 tucked in his waist band during the bank heist.]]
[[Image:HeatSIGP220-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley holds his P220 on a dying man.]]
[[Image:HeatSIGP220-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|At the character's request, McCauley puts him out of his misery with his P220.]]
[[Image:HeatSIGP220-9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Before this shot, McCauley fires his P220 three times, after which it jams. After the change in angle, the gun is back in battery, however.]]
[[Image:HeatSIGP220-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley does a brass check on his P220 in an elevator. Quite dangerously, he puts his hand over the muzzle with his thumb inside the trigger guard when pushing the slide back. When he releases the slide, the sound of it closing is far too loud for such a short release.]]
[[Image:Heat-P220.jpg|thumb|none|600px|''"Look at me!"'']]
[[Image:HeatSIGP220-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley executes his target with a double tap to the chest and a shot to the head (this is Michael Mann's trademark execution, also referred to as a Failure Drill; this M.O. also is used by Cheritto when he executes the third guard during the armored car robbery).]]
[[Image:HeatSIGP220-10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley fires his P220 at Hanna in the air field. This particular blank produced a long after-fire flame. Damp powder, perhaps?]]
[[Image:HeatSIGP220-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley searches for Hanna at the airfield.]]
[[Image:HeatSIGP220-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley hides when the landing lights turn on.]]
[[Image:HeatP220-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A nice close-up of McCauley's P220.]]

==Star Megastar==
Waingro ([[Kevin Gage]]), the unstable newcomer to Neil McCauley's ([[Robert De Niro]]) crew, carries a blued [[Star Megastar]] during the armored car robbery. He uses this one to first pistol-whip and then execute the first guard (stuntman [[Rick Avery]]) by shooting him in the face at point-blank range. He also carries a nickel one when he answers the door at his hotel suite.
[[Image:Star-Megastar.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Blued Star Megastar - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Heat-Megastar.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Waingro pistol-whips the first guard, unaware that he is deaf.]]
[[Image:Heat-Megastar-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Waingro holds his gun on the guard.]]
[[Image:HeatStarMegastar-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Waingro executes the first guard with his Star Megastar by shooting him in the face at point-blank range. The shot is faked with a CGI muzzle flash (animated after the fact) due to the dangerous nature of the shot. Firing a real blank this close to the face of an actor would result in either serious injury or death. A tell tale sign is that the hammer of the pistol remains cocked.]]
[[File:HeatStarMegastar07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:Star Megastar.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Nickel Star Megastar - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Heat-Megastar-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Waingro answers the door armed with a nickel Star Megastar.]]

==Beretta 85FS==
Chris Shiherlis ([[Val Kilmer]]) is seen with a compact pistol in a holster next to him when McCauley walks in and sees him sleeping on the floor. He wakes up and then sticks the holstered gun in his pants. The closest gun it seems to resemble is a blued [[Beretta 85|Beretta 85FS "Cheetah"]] compact pistol.
[[Image:Beretta-85FS.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Beretta 85FS - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:HeatKilmerpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis sleeps with his possible Beretta Cheetah near by. That bruise on Val Kilmer's left elbow is the result of a stunt that went wrong while filming ''The Doors''.]]
[[Image:HeatKilmerpistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis gets up and stuffs his Beretta Cheetah in his pants.]]

==Beretta 92FS==
The LAPD patrol officers responding to the bank robbery return fire on Neil McCauley ([[Robert De Niro]]) and his crew with their standard issue [[Beretta 92FS]]s.
[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Heat-Beretta-92.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An LAPD patrolman opens fire with the Beretta, taking cover behind the Chevrolet Caprice police cruiser. The officer behind him is wielding a [[Mossberg 500]].]]
[[Image:HeatBeretta92FS-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An officer fires his Beretta 92FS at Cheritto.]]

==Beretta 92SB-C==
Sergeant Drucker ([[Mykelti Williamson]]) carries a [[Beretta 92SB-C]] as his sidearm, which is only drawn while he is pursuing Cheritto after running out of ammunition for his [[Mossberg 500]] shotgun.
[[Image:92SB-C.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Beretta 92SB-C, compact model of the 92SB - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:HeatBeretta92FS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After running out of ammo for his Mossberg, Sgt. Drucker ([[Mykelti Williamson]]) pursues Cheritto with his Beretta 92SB-C drawn.]]
[[Image:HeatBeretta92FS-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sgt. Drucker ([[Mykelti Williamson]]) with his Beretta 92SB-C in his holster.]]

==M1911A1==
One of the SWAT officers checking Shiherlis' car has an unknown [[M1911A1]] pistol in his holster. Since Kimbers weren't issued yet to LAPD officers, it is doubtful it is a Kimber Custom II, the current sidearm of LAPD special weapons and tactical units.
[[Image:ColtMkIVSeries70.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Colt MKIV Series 70 M1911A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:HeatM1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An unknown M1911A1 is seen in an SWAT officer's holster.]]

==Ruger KP90==
Michael Cheritto ([[Tom Sizemore]]) has a [[Ruger KP90]] in a crossdraw holster on his tac vest during the armored car robbery. This is NOT the P90, as sometimes claimed, but the stainless KP90.
[[Image:RugerP90Side.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Ruger KP90 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Small_177636-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Ruger KP90 can be seen on Cheritto's tac vest as he stands guard.]]

==Glock 19==
After McCauley executes Waingro, he leaves the room, and a detective working surveillance at the hotel draws a [[Glock 19]] on him.
[[Image:Glock19 2ndGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Glock 19 (2nd Generation) - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:HeatGlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An LAPD detective aims his Glock 19 at McCauley.]]
[[Image:HeatGlock19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The detective holds the Glock 19.]]

==Taurus PT92AFS==
A nickel [[Taurus PT92AFS]] can be seen in the holster of the bank guard that McCauley kicks to the floor during the start of the bank robbery.
[[Image:TaurusPT92AFSwBlack.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Taurus PT92AFS (nickel) (Pre-1998) with slimline black factory grips - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:HeatTaurusPT92.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Taurus PT92 AFS is seen in this security guard's holster at the beginning of the bank heist as McCauley binds his hands behind his back. Note that this Taurus seems to be fitted with Pachmayr grips.]]

=Revolvers=
==Smith & Wesson Model 36==
When Hanna and his men visit Alan Marciano ([[Hank Azaria]]) in Las Vegas to question him about his relationship with Charlene Shiherlis ([[Ashley Judd]]), Det. Casals ([[Wes Studi]]) is seen in the background holding a nickel [[Smith & Wesson Model 36]] snub nose revolver.
[[Image:StainlessS&WModel36.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 36 (nickel) - .38 Special]]
[[Image:HeatS&W60.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Det. Casals in the background is holding a stainless steel Smith & Wesson Model 36.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 38 "Bodyguard"==
During the armored car robbery, as soon as Waingro uses his [[Star Megastar]] to execute the first guard, McCauley guns down the second guard ([[Thomas Rosales Jr.]]) as he tries to grab a [[Smith & Wesson Model 38]] "Bodyguard" from his ankle holster.
[[Image:SWBodyguard.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 38 "Bodyguard" - .38 Special]]
[[Image:Heat_1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The second guard tries to draw a Smith & Wesson Model 38 "Bodyguard" before McCauley guns him down.]]
[[Image:HeatS&W38.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A crime scene technician picks up the Smith & Wesson Model 38 "Bodyguard".]]

=Submachine Guns & Machine Pistols=
==Heckler & Koch MP5A3==
[[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]]s are seen held by an LAPD SWAT officer in a hiding position during the stakeout scene at the precious metals repository. It is also used by a surveillance team watching for Shiherlis and is used by the SWAT team that is sent to the hotel in the climax.
[[Image:MP5A3 StockCollapsed.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:HeatMP5A3-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An SIS surveillance unit member hides in a trash bin with an MP5A3.]]
[[Image:HeatMP5A3-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An SWAT officer aims his MP5A3 at Shiherlis' approaching car.]]
[[Image:HeatMP5A3-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SWAT officers check Shiherlis' car, all armed with MP5A3s.]]
[[Image:HeatMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After McCauley kills Waingro, SWAT officers climb the stairwells (because McCauley had pulled the fire alarm to disable the elevators) with MP5A3s in hand.]]

==Steyr TMP==
The assassin sent to the drive-in theater ([[Max Daniels]]) to kill McCauley brings a [[Steyr TMP]].
[[Image:SteyrTMP.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Steyr TMP - 9x19mm]]
[[File:HeatSteyrSMG1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Assassin moving in slowly to get a shot at an unsuspecting McCauley in his car.]]
[[Image:Heat-TMP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The drive-in theater shooter firing his Steyr TMP at McCauley's car just before Shiherlis shoots him in the back, allowing McCauley to shoot him from in front, killing him. Notice how he pulls the sling forward to tighten it and steady his aim. This is a well known technique for firing stockless guns. The expression on his face comes from McCauley having pinned his leg between his car and the pickup truck he came in.]]
[[Image:HeatTMP-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The shooter fires his Steyr TMP at McCauley.]]

=Shotguns=
==Benelli M3 Super 90==
After the assassin is gunned down at the drive-in-theater, the truck driver starts to drive towards the exit, but just as he reaches the gate, Cheritto steps out from behind cover and opens fire with a [[Benelli M3 Super 90]] 12 gauge shotgun. The shotgun is a both pump-action and semi-automatic but Cheritto uses pump-action only.
[[Image:Benelli_m3-1-.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Benelli M3 Super 90 with pistol grip stock - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Heat-Benelli-M3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cheritto with a Benelli M3.]]
[[Image:Heat0011-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cheritto fires the Benelli M3 at close range, killing the driver.]]

==Mossberg 590==
Detective Casals ([[Wes Studi]]) brings a [[Mossberg 590]] to breach the door of Hugh Benny's ([[Henry Rollins]]) apartment. Sergeant Drucker ([[Mykelti Williamson]]) carries the exact same Mossberg 590 during the firefight outside the bank after the heist. Vincent Hanna later takes one from an officer towards the end of the film as he chases down McCauley on the tarmac.
[[Image:Mossberg 590.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Mossberg 590 with heat shield and bead sight - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Heat-Mossberg-500-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sergeant Drucker holds a Mossberg 590. In the foreground is Detective Casals ([[Wes Studi]]) with an M16A1 (with M16A2 handguard).]]
[[Image:HeatMossberg590-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Det. Casals holds a Mossberg 590 in the elevator.]]
[[Image:HeatMossberg590-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note 590 style magazine tube cap.]]
[[Image:HeatMossberg590-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Det. Casals loads some 12 gauge low brass slugs into his 590.]]
[[Image:Heat-Mossberg-500.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna and Casals head to Hugh Benny's apartment, Casals holding a Mossberg 590. It should be noted, that when Casals chambers the shotgun, it sounds empty.]]
[[Image:HeatMossberg590-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Det. Casals blows out the hinges of Hugh Benny's door with the 590, which is extremely loud in such tight quarters.]]
[[Image:HeatMossberg590-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lt. Hanna takes a 590 from an officer before pursuing McCauley.]]
[[Image:HeatMossberg590.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna fires his acquired Mossberg 590 at a fleeing McCauley.]]

==Mossberg 500==
Some of the LAPD officers are seen armed with [[Mossberg 500]]s during the bank robbery shootout.
[[Image:Mossberg500.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Mossberg 500 - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:HeatMossberg500-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An officer takes cover from Shiherlis' barrage with a Mossberg 500 in hand.]]
[[Image:HeatMossberg500-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An officer fires a Mossberg 500 at Cheritto.]]

==Ithaca 37 "Stakeout"==
An [[Ithaca 37 "Stakeout"]] short-barreled shotgun can be seen resting behind a security desk when McCauley goes to kill Waingro in the hotel.
[[Image:Ithaca Stakeout Parkerized.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" Parkerized finish with Synthetic forearm - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:HeatIthaca37Stakeout.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" shotgun lies behind the desk.]]

==Remington 870==
Some of the LAPD officers are seen armed with [[Remington 870]]s during the bank robbery shootout.
[[Image:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Remington 870 Police Magnum Riot Shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:HeatRem870-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two LAPD officers fire their Remington 870s during the shootout.]]
[[Image:Heat_3.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|An LAPD officer pursues McCauley and Shiherlis with a Remington 870 in hand.]]

=Rifles & Carbines=
==Colt Model 654==
During the armored car robbery, McCauley carries a [[Colt Model 654]] carbine, a 14.5" barreled predecessor to the [[M4A1 Carbine|M4]], with M16A1-style lightweight barrel and sights. He uses his to execute the second guard (the one who tries to draw the [[Smith & Wesson Model 38]] Bodyguard in his ankle holster), who gets hit in his right arm, his shoulder and in his chest. Based on configuration it may be a 654 upper on a GAU-5A receiver (or possibly even an SP1 receiver with a drop-in autosear to allow it fire fully-automatic).
[[Image:ColtM654.jpg‎ |thumb|none|500px|Colt Model 654 - Export version of the Model 653 without forward assist - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:HeatColt654-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley holds his Colt Model 654 while watching the street.]]
[[Image:HeatModel654.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley holds his Model 654. Also note that he has his Heckler & Koch USP in a cross-draw holster on the vest (the back of the slide and grip are visible near the bottom of the picture).]]
[[Image:HeatColt654-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|''"80 seconds left!"'' McCauley calls out to the others while holding his Colt Model 654. The Goodhew ambulance patches on his uniform establish that this is McCauley.]]
[[Image:HeatColt654-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley gives Cheritto a nod to give him approval to execute the third guard.]]
[[Image:HeatColt654-4.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McCauley guns down the second guard]]
[[Image:HeatColt654-5.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A view from over McCauley's shoulder. Note if you look closely, in the almost center of the image, you can see a cable running from the guard's pant leg. This would've been used to activate the a device to simulate a gunshot, blood splattering effect.]]

==Colt Model 733==
During the armored car robbery, Chris Shiherlis ([[Val Kilmer]]) uses a [[Colt Model 733]] short-barreled carbine as his weapon of choice. During the bank robbery, Shiherlis and McCauley both carry the Model 733. These are compact versions of the M16 rifle family with 11.5-inch barrels.

''Trivia: Allegedly, footage of Shiherlis expertly reloading his rifle during the bank robbery shootout has been shown to American Special Forces trainees, with the message from their instructor, "This is how I want you to reload."''
[[Image:Colt Model 733.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Colt Model 733 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:HeatColtM733vanrobbery-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis ([[Val Kilmer]]) with an Colt Model 733 during the armored car robbery. Shiherlis can be identified because he is wearing a black hockey mask, whereas all of the other men are wearing white hockey masks.]]
[[Image:HeatColtM733vanrobbery-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis holds his Model 733 after retrieving the bearer bonds from the back of the armored car.]]
[[Image:HeatColt733-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley with his Model 733 in the bank.]]
[[Image:HeatColt733-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis fires his Model 733 at Det. Bosko, who is taken down with a bullet to the neck.]]
[[Image:HeatColt733-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis fires his Model 733.]]
[[Image:HeatColt733-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley ([[Robert De Niro]]) readies his Model 733 in the car.]]
[[Image:HeatM733-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley fires his Model 733 through the windshield. With three men firing out of the car, everyone here would probably have suffered permanent hearing loss as the result of loud rifle reports.]]
[[Image:HeatColtM733-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis fires his Model 733 down Fifth Street.]]
[[Image:HeatColt733-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis fires his Model 733.]]
[[Image:HeatM733-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis reloads his Model 733. '''N.B.''' [[Val Kilmer]]'s reload was so fast and smooth that this clip was used in U.S. Marine Corps training videos, to show new recruits how it should be done in combat.]]
[[Image:HeatM733-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis smacks the bolt release on his Model 733. '''N.B.''' The car license plate on the right, "2LUP382", is an in-joke: '''LUP''' is British Army (ex-SAS commandos were technical advisors for this film) terminology for '''L'''ying '''U'''p '''P'''osition. The ''2LUP'' indicates that this is the second location in which Shiherlis has paused to take cover during the shootout.]]
[[Image:HeatColtM733-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley lays down suppressing fire with his Model 733.]]
[[Image:Heat-M16A2-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley fires his Model 733 on Fifth Street.]]
[[Image:HeatM733-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley fires his Model 733.]]
[[Image:HeatColtM733-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley fires his Model 733 at the police blockade.]]
[[Image:HeatM733-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McCauley drags the wounded Shiherlis through the parking lot while firing his Model 733 at Hanna. Despite firing it one-handed, McCauley manages to hit one of the officers with his bursts.]]

==FN FNC-80==
Lt. Vincent Hanna ([[Al Pacino]]) pulls out an [[FN FNC|FN FNC-80]] assault rifle during the shootout on Flower Street, and uses it to kill Cheritto when Cheritto - who is firing at Drucker and several other cops - grabs a little girl as a human shield. According to the on-set armorer, Hanna's rifle was a Select Fire FNC-80 assault rifle that was chopped down by the armorer to a Para length barrel, and an M16 style birdcage was attached. The FNC-80 was imported into the U.S. as a full automatic weapon and as a Semiautomatic Sporter rifle named the '''FNC 223 Sporter'''. Despite being a full auto weapon, Michael Mann instructed Al Pacino to fire only in semi-automatic mode, because Hanna and all of the other cops who were involved in the shootout would be concerned about the possibility of endangering bystanders.
[[Image:FNC REM Sporter.jpg|thumb|500px|none|FN FNC-80 - 5.56x45mm. This semi automatic imported rifle is marked ''(FN FNC CAL 223 REM SPORTER)'' on the receiver.]]
[[Image:heatstill-2.jpg|thumb|none|350px|[[Al Pacino]] holds the FN FNC-80 in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:HeatFNFNC-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna ([[Al Pacino]]) fires his FN FNC-80 at Shiherlis ([[Val Kilmer]]) as he gets into the getaway car.]]
[[Image:HeatFNC-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna readies his FN FNC-80 as the shootout begins. Here we can see the shorter barrel and the M16 birdcage flash hider.]]
[[Image:HeatFNFNC-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna with his FNC-80.]]
[[Image:HeatFNC-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna reloads his FNC-80 and forgets there is a round in the chamber. Note live round ejecting in mid air.]]
[[Image:HeatFNC-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna fires his FNC-80 down Fifth Street.]]
[[Image:Heat-FNC.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna takes aim with his FNC-80.]]
[[Image:HeatFNFNC-1-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna fires his FNC-80.]]
[[Image:HeatFNC-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna tries to lower civilians out of McCauley's firing area.]]
[[Image:HeatFN-FNC-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna readies his FNC-80 to give Cheritto ([[Tom Sizemore]]) his 5.56mm present for the head when he trips and then grabs a little girl as a human shield.]]
[[Image:HeatFNFNC-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna aims his FNC-80 at Cheritto.]]
[[Image:HeatFNC-5.jpg|thumb|none|700px|Confident in his aim, Hanna shoots Cheritto in the head. If you look ''very'' closely, at the very instant that Hanna fires, the shot switches to a slightly different angle. This was likely done to edit out a cycling malfunction.]]

==FN FAL 50.61==
During the armored car robbery, Michael Cheritto ([[Tom Sizemore]]) uses a 20" barreled [[FN FAL#FN FAL|FN FAL 50.61]] Paratrooper version with a side-folding stock. He uses his to execute the third guard with a double tap to the sternum and a third shot to the head. This is a military tactic known as a Failure Drill or Mozambique Drill, and is a prominent feature in Michael Mann's movies (it appears twice in ''Heat'' - this incident, and then at the end, when McCauley executes Waingro in his hotel room).
[[Image:FN-FAL-50.61.jpg|thumb|500px|none|FN FAL 50.61 Paratrooper rifle with folding stock and 21" barrel - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Heat-FNFAL.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cheritto stands guard with a FN FAL 50.61 rifle with a Para folding-stock.]]
[[Image:HeatFN-FAL.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cheritto advances on the last guard.]]
[[Image:HeatFNFAL-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cheritto shoots the third guard in the chest with his FN FAL "Para". Note if you look closely, to the lower right, you can see a cable running from the guard's pant leg. This would've been used to activate the a device to simulate a gunshot, blood splattering effect.]]
[[Image:HeatFNFAL-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|He then steps forward and shoots the guard in the head at point-blank range.]]

==Heckler & Koch HK91A2==
Chris Shiherlis ([[Val Kilmer]]) covers McCauley ([[Robert De Niro]]) at the drive-in theater with a [[Heckler & Koch HK91A2]] fitted with a bipod, and manages to take out the [[Steyr TMP]]-wielding assassin with a shot to the back. Shiherlis can be seen holding the HK91A2 on the film's poster.
[[Image:HK_Model_91.jpg‎ |thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch HK91A2 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:HeatH&K.jpg|thumb|none|600px|''"Behind you, on the right!"'' Shiherlis, in cover with his HK91A2, spots the assassin and alerts McCauley.]]
[[Image:Heat-HK91A2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shiherlis fires at the pickup truck.]]
[[Image:HeatH&K_2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Shiherlis gets a clean shot and fires his HK91A2 at the TMP-wielding thug.]]

==IMI Galil ARM ==
Michael Cheritto ([[Tom Sizemore]]) uses an [[IMI Galil ARM]] Model 372 with a wooden handguard during the bank robbery and the shootout. ''While inside the bank, the stock is removed from the mounting bracket. However, it appears when he enters the car, an obvious continuity error.'' He gets separated from the rest of the crew during the gun battle but managed to wound one of Hanna's men, Detective Schwartz ([[Jerry Trimble]]) by shooting him in the shoulder by a transit bus. Oddly enough, Mann refers to the weapon as a 7.62mm in his audio commentary.
[[Image:GalilARM-2.jpg‎|thumb|none|501px|IMI Galil ARM with wood handguard - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Heat0013-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cheritto with an IMI Galil ARM while inside the bank during the heist.]]
[[Image:HeatGalilARM-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cheritto right before the shootout.]]
[[Image:HeatGalil-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cheritto fires his Galil ARM through the windshield from the back seat.]]
[[Image:HeatGalil-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cheritto fires his Galil ARM during the bank heist shootout.]]
[[Image:Heat-AK74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After the heist, Cheritto flees the scene, with his Galil ARM.]]
[[Image:HeatGalilARM-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cheritto flees with his Galil ARM in hand.]]

==M16A1 (with M16A2 handguards)==
Several [[M16A1]] assault rifles are featured prominently in the film, fitted with [[M16A2]]-style handguards and Rapidex type rear sight adjustment knobs. They are wielded by various L.A.P.D. officers, including Detective Casals ([[Wes Studi]]), Detective Mike Bosko ([[Ted Levine]]) and Detective Schwartz ([[Jerry Trimble]]). Casals uses one to assist in disabling the Lincoln Town Car being used as a getaway vehicle, and also manages to shoot and wound Shiherlis during the shootout. According to the on set armorer, the director wanted the actors to fire in semi-automatic mode only. The reason given was that the police would be less interested in 'suppressing fire' and more interested in controlled shots given the proximity of so many innocent bystanders.
[[Image:M16A1wA2Handguards.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Colt M16A1 - outfitted with A2 handguards (from the movie ''Heat'') - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:HeatM16A1-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An LAPD officer ([[Steven Ford]]) hides in a truck during the stakeout with an M16A1 with A2 handguards slung over his back.]]
[[Image:HeatM16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Det. Schwartz ([[Jerry Trimble]]) holds his M16A1 after the stakeout.]]
[[Image:Heat_2.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|Detective Bosko ([[Ted Levine]]) exchanges fire with Shiherlis, but the more experienced Shiherlis kills Bosko with a shot to the neck. Here you can see the Rapidex rear sight adjustment knob.]]
[[Image:Heat-Mossberg-500-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sergeant Drucker ([[Mykelti Williamson]]) with a [[Mossberg 590]]. In the foreground is Detective Casals ([[Wes Studi]]) with an M16A1 (with M16A2 handguard). This shot clearly shows the Rapidex rear sight adjustment knob.]]
[[Image:HeatM16A1-A2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Detective Casals readies his modified M16A1. This shot clearly shows the Rapidex rear sight adjustment knob.]]
[[Image:Heat 962.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Detective Casals ([[Wes Studi]]) fires the rifle.]]
[[Image:HeatM16A1-A2-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Detective Casals fires his M16A1 during the firefight outside the bank heist.]]

==Norinco Type 56-1==
During the armored car robbery, Trejo ([[Danny Trejo]]) carries a Chinese [[Norinco Type 56-1]] assault rifle.
[[Image:Chinese56S.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 56-1 with AKM muzzle brake - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Heat56-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closeup of Trejo's Norinco Type 56-1 as the call on the robbery goes out on the police scanner. The slanted [[AKM]] Style compensator is not standard on the military Type 56, however, manufacturers like Norinco and Poly Technologies added them on to their civilian rifles for export to the United States in the 1980s.]]
[[Image:Heat56-1zoomedin.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Trejo's Type 56-1 as seen while Trejo is deploying the spike strip.]]

==Heckler & Koch SR9(T)==
A police sniper of the surveillance team watches over McCauley with a [[Heckler & Koch SR9(T)]] sniper rifle. This same sniper is seen during the stakeout for Shiherlis with the rifle.
[[Image:H&KSR9T.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Heckler & Koch SR9(T) Sniper rifle - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:HeatSR-9(TC).jpg|thumb|none|600px|A sniper aims his H&K SRC-9(T) at McCauley but is ordered not to fire.]]
[[Image:HeatSR9(t)-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A police sniper watches Shiherlis through the scope of his SR9(T).]]

=Trivia=
It appears that some of the shots composed for the film were inspired by several paintings.
[[Image:Colville_032.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Alex Colville's ''Pacific'' (1967) that inspired the famous shot in ''Heat''. The pistol shown is a [[Browning Hi-Power]].]]
[[Image:Heat_Blue2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Neil McCauley ([[Robert De Niro]]) looks out the window of his house; beforehand, he lays his USP on a counter nearby, although it is out of shot in this image.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Crime]]
[[Category:Detective]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Michael Mann]]

Talk:Navy SEALs

2017-03-07T17:06:59Z

Cozmo: /* Random */

At the start of the movie, terrorists fire a DShK machine gun at a helicopter, and a soldier is seen using an FN FAL (Or L1A1) in news footage in the news room. I have this movie on DVD but have been too busy to add these caps. Eventually I'll get to it. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:no worries I just want to know what was mounted on the WWII era APC the Lebonese were useing you know the one that was blown up with a stinger. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 06:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
::It was a dual mounted M1919 Browning. I won't upload the image though because I fucked up and started adding images when MPM already had them handy. I'll let him upload them instead. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== The 'Inox' Beretta 92SB ==

- According to background info posted on the Beretta 92 page (Specifically, on the [[Beretta_92_pistol_series#Beretta_92FS_Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]] section, which I've partially repeated below), there is no such thing as an Beretta 92SB Inox. So I've edited that part to state it is simply a chrome-plated 92SB. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:57, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

: ''The Beretta 92FS Inox was first introduced in 1990, and was the very first pistol that Beretta ever offered with the stainless Inoxidizable finish. '''None of Beretta's earlier 92-series pistols, including the original 92F or the 92SB, were ever offered with the Inox finish.'''''

: The caption mentions the operator/actor would not be using a "flashy" chrome-plated gun. In actuality, stainless steel firearms were favored by SEALs because they wouldn't rust. SEAL Team Six (DevGroup) in particular used Smith & Wesson Model 66 revolvers chambered in .357 Magnum for C/T purposes.

::- The finish on stainless guns can be dulled out to where it isn't that shiny, and therefore, not that 'flashy' and noticeable. Chrome on the other hand, is '''always''' very shiny. And I agree that using such a noticeably shiny weapon would be counteractive for a nighttime operation. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:32, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

==Random==
I took these caps for random trivia and ID purposes.

[[Image:NS-SDgrips-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This shot shows the MP5SD3s do in fact have front grips installed, but they have smaller ribbing than MPM's image, so I suppose these are older style SDs.]]
[[Image:NS-StraightMag-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Curran's SD3 fitted with a straight magazine, bizaaaaare.]]
[[Image:NS-BerettaMag-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|I can't tell if the magazine is falling out of this Beretta or if it is an extended magazine. I see this happen several times on the SEALs' pistols, so it is hard to be sure.]]

So, enjoy :) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:I think it's an extended mag. If you look at the photo of Ramos firing his pistol on the main page, you can see the mag extending below his grip. I just noticed that. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 12:06, 7 March 2017 (EST)

== Title ==

I know the rules say we go by the IMDB name, but shouldn't there be some sort of "Common Sense" veto here? "SEALS" is an acronym. Now it sounds like it should be a kids movie. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 02:18, 24 April 2011 (CDT)

:I agree. That's a case of the person who wrote the IMDB entry being an ignoramus. We don't need to be as ignorant as they are - we of all people should know better. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 10:39, 24 April 2011 (CDT)
::I think the person who made this page also liked to use gun calibers instead of periods in all the caps and I had to fix all that. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:29, 24 April 2011 (CDT)

== Inaccuracy on the page? ==

Just wondering if this:

"Beretta 92SB pistols are the sidearms of the SEAL team members in the film, although in reality the Beretta M9 was issued during the time the film was made. The Beretta 92SB was in fact issued to the United States Air Force until the M9 replaced that role as well"

Taken from the page is actually accurate in it's wording. Hadn't SEALs already started using the SIG Sauer P226 at the time of the films release? That line sort of implies that the SEALs standard issue sidearm was the Beretta doesn't it? Or maybe it's just me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:56, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== Hawkins' Type 56-1 ==

Looking at the Type 56-1 everything seems to point to it being an AKMS apart from the front sight, is it possible that it was an AKMS with a hooded front sight attached? --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:14, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:I'm not even sure it has a type 56 front sight. It is too narrow and is straight backed, and don't think it has the hood. Also, it has the AKMS handguard, upper receiver, folding stock and the character uses an AKMS at other points. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:[[File:Navy seal ak front sight.jpg|thumb|200px|none|Blown up, cropped and contrasted image to show the front sight]]
::I'm pretty certain that the sight is hooded, it looks to go around far to much to not be a hooded front sight. It's just a bit strange that in that one scene he has what is pretty much an AKMS with a Type 56 style front sight. I can't imagine that they would have changed all those parts of the Type 56 to make it look like an AKMS for such a short sequence, and like you say he uses the AKMS for everything in Beirut leading up to that bit. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 00:24, 13 February 2012 (CST)
:::Im 90% sure that is an AKM front sight. If you look at the above picture you can see the complete top edge of both of the wings meaning it can't be hooded, and if it were hooded there is a cirvular hole in the top of it, and there is no sign of this at all. Also, if it was a Type 56 sight it would be wider, and have a shallower angle on the back which would become vertical near the top, as opposed to the AKM sight like this that has a more constant steeper angle. Lastly, the cutout at the base of the sight should be a wider slot if it was a Type 56, rather than the more squarly proportioned one on the AKM. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:02, 13 February 2012 (CST)
::::Wow, well I think I shall conceed on this one then, you've convinced me :P--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:27, 13 February 2012 (CST)
:::::OK so I watched the scene today and the sight on the rifle is definitely a non-hooded sight, you can see it when Hawkins gets into the car. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:10, 15 February 2012 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 1

2017-01-10T17:49:51Z

Cozmo: /* Can't shake modern warfare */

== This gonna be good... ==

Seriously. This is a good change for once, other than Battlefield mod and fictional "Iron Storm" (2002). This is a first World War 1 FPS comes from a major game publisher.[[User:Alex Vostox|Alex Vostox]] ([[User talk:Alex Vostox|talk]])
:Yeah, it's got some nice Steampunk elements (ala Dishonored) too, but tbh im more pumped about this than Infinite Warfare, even the CoD 4 remaster looked better imo.--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 13:00, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
::I was really hoping to see 1944 next, but I gotta say that this looks amazing. Perhaps the first after this is 1944. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 13:27, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
:::It looks alright, the graphics are damn good though, that's for sure.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 13:28, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
::::Let's hope they bring one of the MANLIEST element of the World War 1..The MUSTACHE! [[User:Alex Vostox|Alex Vostox]] ([[User talk:Alex Vostox|talk]])
:::::Every time you rank up your character's moustache gets slightly bigger? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:42, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
::::::Mustache AI--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:58, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
:::::::I'm going to be really disappointed if they don't have this in the game--[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] ([[User talk:John Ryder|talk]]) 03:34, 8 May 2016 (EDT)
::::::::You've reached Rank 100. You've unlocked... The Handlebar.--[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 01:50, 9 May 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::It's gonna be a good year for FPS games. I can't wait for this and Infinite Warfare (that must be illegal). As some of you guys mentioned, World War I games are rarely done and it's nice to see a triple A publisher try their hand at it. WWI is such a sorely underused setting, so much potential too. And I love space and science fiction, so Infinite Warfare has me covered there. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 02:24, 9 May 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::This game reminds me that i want to see a CoD of BF that takes place during the korean war.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 02:46, 9 May 2016 (EDT)

== Italian Rifle ==

It does look like it's designed after a Carcano 1891 Cavalry Carbine, but the rifle is way too long. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 23:09, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
:Maybe it's a inaccurately sized model? Judging from DICE's rendering accuracy (cough cough ARX 160), it could be the case.
::Is that cough getting in the way of you signing your posts, mysterious contributor?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:43, 8 May 2016 (EDT)
:::It isn't a Carcano, the stock is the wrong shape, there is no external magazine, no folding bayonet, and the end cap on the stock is wrong. C&Rsenal did a brakdown of the trailer and their oppinion on this rifle is that it is just a place holder and will eventually be a Carcano Cavalry Carbine, but it seems that currently the model is a modified Mauser 1898. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:34, 8 May 2016 (EDT)
::::Hrm, interesting. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 19:26, 9 May 2016 (EDT)
:::::And, though it's just me, the barrel on it seems extremely too long and thin. This leads me to believe it IS supposed to be the Carcano, but just absurdly disproportionate. [[User:Jaxxons11|Jaxxons11]] ([[User talk:Jaxxons11|talk]]) 19:38, 15 May 2016 (EDT)
::::::I agree, it looks like they have mistaken the length of the Carbine for the full length M91 --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 20:20, 15 May 2016 (EDT)

== MG 15? ==
So, there was a short teaser released few days ago, and it showed Bergmann MG 15nA light machine gun. I came here to add that to the images but it appears that someone inserted MG 15 instead of MG 15nA. I changed the name/image and added new screenshot, but if there is an image that contains MG 15 as well as MG 15nA, feel free to add that again. [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] ([[User talk:Zzang1847|talk]])

== What's this rifle ==

EA just had their E3 stream. It was really lame and not enough ME: Andromeda footage (i've been waiting 3 years for some gameplay, move yer butts!) There was a new trailer for BF1 though showing DICE's lack of taste in music. There's gonna be a livestream of bored looking people playing to soon.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:09, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
[[File:BF1 rifle.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Anyway, what's goin on here?!]]
:It's a [[Winchester Model 1907]]. And yeah, that music was shite.
:[[Image:Winchester Model 1907.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Winchester Model 1907 - .351 Winchester]] [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 17:46, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::I assume it was used during WW1?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:09, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::I don't if it was or was not. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 18:25, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::::I just hope that the Winchester 1895 shows up.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:40, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::It was used by France, and is limited by Russia and by the United Kingdom. Some French versions have been converted into a full-auto and are equipped with extended magazines. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 18:57, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::Here's the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pY3hlQEOc0 trailer]--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 19:04, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::What I really hope doesn't happen with this game is have tons of rare and little used semi auto rifles and SMGs inexplicably in the hands of common infantrymen, just so the game can still have the feel of Battlefield without modern automatic weapons. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 19:32, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXcD4ePJWEc 14 minutes of gameplay].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 19:49, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::I hope they keep it authentic with the Nagant jaming all the time.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 20:17, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::More gameplay [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AObo251De4k here].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 23:33, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::::About the only thing that makes me worried so far is the aircraft seem ludicrously tough, in these alpha games you have people slamming them headlong into the ground and flying them through buildings without destroying them. I guess that might be a balance thing because they're slower and so easier to hit from the ground, but still. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 12:07, 1 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::::I don't think the collision physics for airplanes has been finalized yet, but I do hope they stay more resilient when touching the ground than BF4's instantly-dead jets. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:04, 1 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Back in Battlefield 1942: Desert Combat the AC-130 was kind of infamous for having so much health it could actually fly straight through the chimneys on the El Alamein map and survive. It might be they just jacked up their health for the early builds because they wanted people who had no idea how to fly them to still have fun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 21:25, 1 July 2016 (EDT)

== An unknown shotgun ==
[[Image:Bf1-shotgun.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Unknown shotgun - needs an identification]]
So I added bunch of new weapons that came out from the second gameplay trailer, and I need some help identifying this shotgun. I know that there is a confirmation that Winchester M1897 "Trench Gun" is going to be in the game, but this gun is shown very briefly in first person view, and I am not sure whether it's M1897 or not. If this gun is from WW1 then Winchester Model 12 might be another possible candidate, but that I cannot guarantee. What do you guys think? [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] ([[User talk:Zzang1847|talk]])
:Those sights are throwing me off. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 22:34, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::I could be wrong, but that could be either the Stevens Model 520 or the Remington Model 10. --[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 23:40, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::I think you are right about Remington Model 10. If you look closely on the top of receiver, there is a bulged rail-looking part for mounting attachments(like the optic in the image) and I haven't seen that thing on M1897/M520. Now Winchester Model 12 also has that part on top of the receiver, but when I looked at the footage frame by frame, there were no shells ejecting on the right side, which fits the description of Model 10's bottom feed/ejecting mechanism. Unless I see any other suggestion of what that shotgun might be by tomorrow, I will update it to Remington Model 10. Thanks for the suggestion! [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] ([[User talk:Zzang1847|talk]])
::::A quick update to my previous comment. I just checked the new multiplayer gameplay footage from Jackfrags and kill-feed confirms that it is Remington Model 10(It says Model 10-A-HE, which I assume it is one of the pre-set customization options). I will update the main page right away! [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] ([[User talk:Zzang1847|talk]])
:::::Wow...so I actually knew something right about a gun being shown!--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 14:37, 13 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::About the names and presets, it seems every gun has a two-letter bit at the end of its name denoting the different presets, but I haven't figured out what they actually mean. About the sights, it seems the game as some sort of early dual-lens system where the front and rear sights are replaced with lenses that give the player what is effectively a 2x scope. Keep this in mind if you're trying to ID something and the sights are like this. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:25, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::On a sidenote, I think that the picture of the shotgunner getting hit with a shovel should be moved under the Model 10, as the model clearly lacks a hammer. Now, granted, the pump handle is shoved under the receiver, so you could argue that the same applies to the other moving parts, including the hammer, but I'm more inclined to believe that the victim of a shovel attack has (or rather, had) a Model 10. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 08:45, 2 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::How come they didn't include the extra round chambering on this shotgun in the closed alpha. Maybe they will fix it in the final release? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:28, 18 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::Probably trying to use WW1 era gun handling techniques. Notice how handguns are now held with one hand? I don't think chambering a shell, then loading the tube was a common military practice for shotguns back then. I could be wrong though.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 15:13, 18 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::::This is likely it. From my not-super-educated-on-the-era perspective, BF3/4's loading the chamber first, then the tube definitely feels more "modern" and "tactical", while loading the tube first and ending with a pump feels more "classic" and "old school". Also, another fun fact is that you can cancel/shorten reloads if you need to ready the gun quickly. Mag-fed guns can't do this of course, but anything that uses stripper clips and single-round loading can. If you hit the fire button while reloading, the round/clip currently being inserted will finish loading, then you'll rechamber the gun right after, so for rifles you'll close the bolt and shotguns you'll pump them, and I assume this will apply to revolvers in the full game as well. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:26, 18 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::::You should therefore also expect to see a lot of terrible trigger discipline since the military didn't teach it to soldiers back then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 00:10, 20 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Makes sense. Only time will tell if an extra round can at least be chambered by reloading the Model 10 a second time after an empty reload (like mag-fed weapons do). Btw Call of Duty 3 made two interesting things regarding this topic: an empty reload of the Winchester M1897 involved loading 5 shells, pumping and then automatically inserting an extra one, and while loading two stripper clips into the Lee-Enfield you could actually interrupt the process and fire the weapon after loading only one. It's extremely silly that such features weren't carried on in any of the 10 following games. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 19:49, 19 July 2016 (EDT)

==Weapon identifications by Forgotten Weapons==
Forgotten Weapon uploaded a few videos analyzing the different guns that appeared in the teaser trailer and the gameplay trailer. [[User:Inceptor57|Inceptor57]] ([[User talk:Inceptor57|talk]]) 22:41, 12 June 2016 (EDT) 
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDRRlVElEXI] - Teaser Trailer analysis 
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19hohCtdJ4Y] - Gameplay Trailer analysis

I also will run the assumption that no matter if it was introduced at the beginning or end of the war, we will be seeing any gun that existed during this time period regardless if it served in actual combat. Like I bet the BAR will be an awesome weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:29, 13 June 2016 (EDT)

I am fearing that the game designers will put sights that are the closest thing there will be to "optics" because gamers and kids these days just love their red dots and can't seem to want to play period pieces without their red dots. Greatest example is COD black ops where red dots galore before red dots were even thought possible for long guns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:25, 13 June 2016 (EDT)

:Holy damn, they added a Cei-Rigotti, I may have to buy this game. :P --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 19:32, 13 June 2016 (EDT)

::Well, you do have things that look pretty close to modern optics like [http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/17982/17332762_1.jpg?v=8D086BA4C1ABE20 this thing], which is a rare Zeiss-made 2.5x prismatic magnifier. Also reflex sights are [https://www.forgottenweapons.com/nydar-reflex-sight/ a bit older than you think], they just didn't really catch on at first. Even some WW1 fighter planes had red-dot reflector gunsights, in fact, though you'd never see them officially because they were top-secret: as late as WW2 the RAF was still messing around with photographs to replace reflector sights on Spitfires with old wire bullseye sights.

::Also, regarding the mystery scope on the Beretta M1918, I found [http://www.enfieldresource.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cropped-azzzzzz1.jpg this] image of a Lee-Enfield with what looks like some kind of magnifying rear sight, but I couldn't find any sites describing it or giving it a name. Anyone know? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 18:49, 28 June 2016 (EDT)
:::It looks like Parker-Hale aperture backsight, most likely [http://www.rifleman.org.uk/PH_Service_sights.htm Model 4] (though it was used with No.4 Mk I rifle). [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 06:46, 29 June 2016 (EDT)
https://imgur.com/gallery/QV6Fc
Speaking of ForgottenWeapons, apparently he took a trip to DICE's LA studio, and assisted them. Dunno how, but it gives me faith that the weapons will at least be modelled and animated as close to authentic as possible.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:42, 25 July 2016 (EDT)
::I can't be the only one who, if I was the one picking the teams for the livestream, would have invited him to play?--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 12:24, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

== Reloading rifles that require opening the action ==
Despite my initial concerns due to how terrible Youtube compression is, making it hard to see details, the round ejected when opening the action is actually accounted for. And by "accounted for", I mean your character covers the ejection port with their left hand as you open the bolt, putting the ejecting round back into the internal magazine. Thought you guys would find this interesting. Literally the ''only'' inaccuracy I'm finding with weapon reloading is the C96, but the alternative is not allowing reloads unless empty, so I can let that one slide. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:20, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
:Love it when animators put details like that into reload animations. That's why i like MoH: Warfighter, delicious animations.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:37, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
::But in the B1 has a realistic reloading (with half-empty magazine replaced by a full magazine no jerks once again charging handle); as well as the balance between the stripper clips and the individual rounds to rifles (insert a stripper clip when you can insert a five ammo to the rifle's magazine, and the pre-load with the individual cartridges) - something that is very rarely see in the video games, and already is an achievement in itself. As for the animations, I hope that they will correct their later, as now the game is only in alpha stage. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 18:57, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
:::Considering the attention to detail and the selection firearms, this is looking to be atleast interesting to play just to see all the guns.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 19:58, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
::::I wonder if they'll have the dafter stuff like the catapults and grenade-launching crossbows they developed before everyone came to their senses and started using rifle grenades? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 18:29, 28 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::Your post reminds me of that knife with a bipod from BF4, that was fun.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:52, 1 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::5 bucks says that they include the Blanch-Chevalier. For those that don't know, it was basically a Martini-Henry with the barrel replaced with a setup that allows for the use of proprietary muzzle-loading grenades and blank cartridges, fired from the shoulder just to make it more ridiculous. Only 1 exists, but given the Cei-Rigotti, it seems likely. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 21:55, 1 July 2016 (EDT)

== Unknown LMG ==
[[Image:Bf1 unk mg.jpg|600px|thumb|none|]]
He was seen in the pre-alpha. At first I thought it was the Colt Model 1895; but it seems to be something other. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 12:27, 28 June 2016 (EDT)
:Actually it's not a machine gun, it is an anti-tank weapon ''1.59-inch Breech-Loading Vickers Q.F. Gun, Mk II''. There are some BF1 videos where it is being used against, well, tanks. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 12:51, 28 June 2016 (EDT)
::As I understand, it will replace the rocket launchers from WWII shooters. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 11:59, 30 June 2016 (EDT)

== Alpha data mined ==

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1241794

A list of all the weapon names obtained from the Alpha files. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

:That's definitely a list of weapons from singleplayer, though that said the odds of SP-only guns should be pretty low. I'm excited for some of those pistols. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:42, 2 July 2016 (EDT)

::Heh, Mars pistol in there as the game's Desert Eagle. Wonder if it costs health to shoot it like the real one? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:59, 2 July 2016 (EDT)
:::This is clearly not a complete list. There are missing the many weapons, that are already in the game. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 15:06, 2 July 2016 (EDT)
::::Well, this is pulled out of the files (probably for SP) so it's entirely possible some of the MP weapons don't appear in SP. It's also entirely possible some of the weapons on that list will only ever be on that list.
::::I'm a little confused as to what use a 2.7mm smoothbore pistol with an almighty 3 foot-pounds of muzzle energy is going to be in-game, though. The Kolibri makes a .22LR look like a cannon. In fact given the Kolibri is [http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/kolibri_and_round_next_to_a_50_AE_bullet_for_comparison.jpg this big] (that's a .50 AE round beside it), it's going to be hard to even see it in your character's hand.
::::What I'm really hoping is somewhere in the DLC they do a Battle of Jutland map where every squad leader can spawn a Dreadnought or something. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 15:24, 2 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::Why am I getting the vibe with this is that they just watched any Forgotten Weapons video with a gun from before 1918 and just said, sure let's put that in. I mean the Kolibri's are rare, the Mars were effectively relics by WWI, Howdah's were hunting guns and their military uses were more in India and South Africa, Bulldog's were sort of petering out in popularity with civilians and next to none were in military hands. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 10:26, 4 July 2016 (EST)
::::::Well it's not like it's ever ''not'' been like that given Battlefield's tendency towards things like Pancor Jackhammers and MagPul PDRs and such. Even the first one had you fighting with the StG-44 before it had been invented and with the HMS ''Prince of Wales'' after she'd been sunk. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:44, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, the Battlefield series is known for taking artistic liberties in their games. Don't forget the Tiger I in Operation Battleaxe a year before they entered service. Then of course you have the Secret Weapons pack and all they added. DICE likes to use low production or even just prototypes for their games, and keeping them to the correct chronological point isn't their concern. [[User:Zombiedrd|Zombiedrd]] ([[User talk:Zombiedrd|talk]]) 14:47, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
I gotta say, I quite like that they put these rare or low production weapons in their games, makes the games more interesting and shows of weapons people might never heard of before. If i want historical accuracy, I'd play Red Orchestra or something.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:52, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
:I'll second this entirely. There are so many very cool and interesting guns (and vehicles and other tech) I'd never heard of before, I love it! And really, ''every'' Battlefield's weapon list is like this. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:10, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, it makes it more interesting then just having everyone run around with Nagants and Mausers and whatnot.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 21:02, 4 July 2016 (EDT)

==Neat Video==
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuCOj7ez3H8].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 01:06, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
: Something I see there besides the Auto-5 and MG15, I also see the Remington Model 8 as well. Currently an image of it is being used to showcase the Auto-5 which is incorrect as I do not believe the Auto-5 ever held 8 rounds. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 08:51, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::Well, the Model 8 could be running the 15-rounder, and just isn't fully loaded. Also, we saw the M1918 Mauser 13.2mm, and an icon of the Webley-Fosbery autorevolver (which, by the way, YES) for a split-second. Cheers, [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 18:52, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I am thoroughly surprised the Chauchat has yet to be revealed. Here's to hoping the French's 8x50mmR Lebel makes it into the game over the US's .30-06 version. [[User:Jaxxons11|Jaxxons11]] ([[User talk:Jaxxons11|talk]]) 21:12, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::::The Borchardt C-93, Steyer M1912, and Frommer Stop machine pistol are in some of the recent videos from Gamescon.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:23, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::::I'd bet the Chauchat will be in the France DLC. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:12, 16 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::Selbstlader M1916 in the hands of an desert infantryman? O_o. I understand everything, but in real life Mauser Selbstlader and the desert - the things, I think, very poorly compatible. Where it would be logical, if it would the pilot's choice of weapon. -[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 19:01, 21 August 2016 (EDT)

==Beta Data Mine, Full Weapon List==
Unlike the previous one, this looks to be a full, proper list of [https://www.reddit.com/r/Battlefield/comments/523ly0/bf1_full_weapon_list_including_gadgets_and/ all weapons], including their presets. As a Canadian, I will absolutely be rocking the Huot Automatic Rifle. Edit: I made an [https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_one/comments/523mef/full_weapon_list_including_gadgets_and_variants/d7hbq46 easier to read version]. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:02, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:>holy moley a Kolibri pistol
:Forgotten Weapons: The Game is really shaping up well.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 18:43, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::Replacing my previous text, as I've put together a [https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_one/comments/529uf8/full_weapon_list_cleaned_organized_and_new/ much more legible and complete list]. I'd be surprised if this isn't a complete list. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:32, 11 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Again, I'm surprised that the Chauchaut hasn't been confirmed yet. I mean, it was the first widely used, man portable, fully automatic rifle. [[User:Jaxxons11|Jaxxons11]] ([[User talk:Jaxxons11|talk]]) 16:27, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
::::Probably all the French weapons are supposed to be in the first DLC.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:34, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::I'd bet anything the France DLC will have the RSC 1917, Chauchat, Lebel (and an Assault gun), while the Russia DLC will have the Fedorov Avtomat and Mosin-Nagant (and Assault/Support guns). [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 00:30, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::French Assault class automatic will most likely be ''Ribeyrolles Mle. 1918'', calling it now! I really wonder what they could bring in the Russian DLC, maybe more Winchester self loading rifles?--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 09:09, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Figured you guys would want to see [https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_one/comments/559aey/ingame_images_of_the_2mm_kolibri_pistol/ this]. :3 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:31, 30 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Imagine it serves as a melee weapon that behaves akin to an extreme choking hazard.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:27, 30 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Maybe it's for the yet-to-be-revealed Ant class. On a more serious note, my best guesses for the French DLC are an Mle. 1892, a Star Ruby (along with a possible Plus Ultra variant), a Savage pistol, and maybe an 1873 Chamelot-Delvigne as a joke (with a muzzle velocity of about 2 m/s), a Ribeyrolles 1918, a Chauchat, an RSC 1917 or 1918, a Lebel, a Berthier, and maybe a Remington Rolling Block. Only time will tell. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 19:13, 30 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::Hopefully after you've emptied the weapon and dirtied someones shirt you can throw it at them. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 15:50, 2 October 2016 (EDT)
On a slightly less related note, we've got confirmation of the M1889 Bodeo, based on some early footage of the cinematic tools available ingame, along with the BAR. It's in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2_j6D1NsHc/ this video.] Cheers, [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 20:14, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:Nice to finally see some revolver gameplay, though I do want to see their reloads, what with most of them using loading gates. Also, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMPTc6E9wxo the Avanti Savoia teaser], with a shot of a rather unique weapon in it. :3 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:47, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::Hey, it seemed to me, or I saw this there: --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 19:56, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
[[File:Fake Villar Perosa from The Sicilian.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]

==Some Weapons + Skins==
Found this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YmPP2h8u40/ here] of a guy showcasing some weapons and weapon skins. Added the ones that I saw, also I'm not liking many of those skins at all in my honest opinion. The flashy gold engraving is not too bad but most of them are pretty bad. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 16:53, 12 October 2016 (EDT)
:It's a WWI game, you don't need skins. It looks quite ironic when a gold plated BAR gets muddy in St. Quentin Scar.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:21, 12 October 2016 (EDT)
:: It's not like this is a game about realism. Prototypes and experimental designs being used as standard issue and all. Not to mention tactics not seen until the Second World War(Literally saw a combined armed blitzkrieg assault using RE8s and Mark IV tanks). [[User:Zombiedrd|Zombiedrd]] ([[User talk:Zombiedrd|talk]]) 17:40, 12 October 2016 (EDT)
:::Nice to see that DICE have acknowledged the M1897's slam fire capability.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:14, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
Just a [https://www.reddit.com/r/Battlefield/comments/57emdb/bf1_if_you_equip_the_m1903_experimental_and/ little something] I discovered today. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:20, 14 October 2016 (EDT)
::::Some more weapons can be seen from gameplay in Jackfrags video, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GMcq87FVSc/ Sentry Destruction] which includes a new Sawn Off Shotgun for the Tank Hunter class [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 14:43, 14 October 2016 (EDT)

:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cErZWtWCgAY The 2mm Kolibri is in the game], which [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THsDpGJcpk8 Forgotten Weapons made a video about].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 17:46, 14 October 2016 (EDT)

==Can't shake modern warfare ==

I just watched the early footage of the game yesterday and watching the player go through the first couple missions, I'd noticed that the creators of this game really can't get away from everything modern warfare style games have done to the genre of shooters. You first start off with the broom handle, sure that's ok. Churchill himself used one in his youth but then, you can tell the progression of the player as he picked up the "essentially an assault rifle" and going to town, then switching up to full auto weapons. It's cool to use those types of guns, but the historical inaccuracy is just painful and we know why they did it. They designed this game to feel like modern warfare with guns close enough to today's automatic guns in a time period that didn't have a lot of that in the actual feel. It's like if they make a Civil War game and we constantly see Henry rifles even though they weren't that prominent on the battlefield, despite being game changers. It's like the designers think it'd be too boring for the Brits to use a bolt action Enfield with a Webley as his sidearm. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:02, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
: "It's like the designers think it'd be too boring for the Brits to use a bolt action Enfield with a Webley as his sidearm." Yes, that is the point. This is an AAA game trying to compete on the shooter market with the mass of gamers, not a game made for people who want realism. Using tactics of the Great War, with common weapons of the Great War, would be too slow for the average shooter player(Look at the insanity of Titanfall). To be a big seller, you have to have intense fast paced action, and bolt actions and trench warfare doesn't do that. Instead of have a gamer closer to a World War 2 game, because fast mechanized warfare is what the average gamer wants. Remember, this game isn't for us older people into the historical lore of the firearms of the period, but for that range from 15-25. [[User:Zombiedrd|Zombiedrd]] ([[User talk:Zombiedrd|talk]]) 12:02, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
::I've noticed exactly that watching some of the game-play videos out now. In one of the story modes the character has a bolt-action for about 30 seconds before switching to a semi-auto rifle and then picking up a portable machine gun. Based on a lot of weaponry it seems the game developers based most of it on the Forgotten Weapons youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/ForgottenWeapons/videos [[User:brasco|brasco]] ([[User talk:brasco|talk]]) 15:16, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
::::Well, in this sort of situation, there's always a balance between realism and fun. On one hand, you can't just throw realism out the window and have people running around with AUGs and SPAS-12s like it's Black Ops, but on the other hand, were it to be ''completely'' realistic, you'd spend about a month of your time sitting in a trench with a bolt-action rifle, waiting to get trenchfoot or die of an infection. Sure, it's not terribly historically accurate, but I'm fine with them fictionalizing the available armaments of the war (at least to the extent of things that existed, but weren't issued in large numbers/ at all) in exchange for a more enjoyable game. If you want a more realistic WW1 shooter, go get a copy of Verdun. But anyway, that's just the opinion of [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 16:03, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
:::::Well said. Also, you're free to use or not use whatever weapons you want in campaign, so it's not like you have to use something out of place if you don't want. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:09, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
:::I don't subscribe to the belief of, "don't play or watch it if it is bad" logic. That kind of thinking only encourages bad things instead of bringing it up. I wasn't expecting full on trench warefare[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:46, 25 October 2016 (EDT)
::::If you want a game that combines realism and fun, Red Orchestra is probably your best bet. I think it's computer only, but it's pretty realistic. For example, when firing your bolt action rifle, which the majority of players will get, one mouse click fires the weapon and a second one cycles the bolt. There's also no reticle, and you need to use your iron sights to fire accurately). Tank crews have specific jobs like driver, gunner, commander, etc, and a driver will only drive the tank (but can switch to other positions). So none of this "I'mma drive the tank and fire it while I'm moving" stuff. It's available on Steam if anyone is interested, and there are mods available to allow you to play as Americans or Brits as well as the original Russians or Germans. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 12:49, 10 January 2017 (EST)

== Villa-Perosa 1915 ==

There was a Villa-Perosa 1915 in one of the recent gameplay videos on YouTube. It could be picked up from weapon boxes spread around the maps. Should this be added?--[[User:Hchris|Hchris]] ([[User talk:Hchris|talk]]) 14:57, 16 October 2016 (EDT)
:Of course. Also, it should be noted that though the HUD shows it holding "25", that's ''shots'', not individual rounds. It fires two at once, thus is correctly 50 rounds. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:56, 16 October 2016 (EDT)
::I believe it's available as an alternate weapon for the Sentry Elite Class. It trades firepower for added mobility I believe. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 18:22, 16 October 2016 (EDT)

==Kolibri==
Seriously, this cute little pistol actually existed? How do you actually use that thing though (in terms of practicality)? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] ([[User talk:Kenny99|talk]]) 20:16, 17 October 2016 (EDT)
:It's adorable and does 5 damage at point blank, 25 for a headshot. Also, while we're on this topic, it's capacity of 7+1 looks to be correct (whoever wrote otherwise). While Ian of Forgotten Weapons did say it didn't like loading all seven, the magazines were clearly designed for seven. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 20:21, 17 October 2016 (EDT)
::It's actually half as powerful as the UK muzzle energy cutoff for an air pistol to be considered a firearm. Given the designer was a watchmaker (and you basically have to load the thing with tweezers because the rounds are so dinky), it was probably more a "look what I can do" thing. Or a pistol so that your actual pistol can defend itself. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:07, 18 October 2016 (EDT)
:::Welp. I loved it when how the player hands reacts when receiving this pistol for first time. And how gently the player hands pulled the slide and shoot it like holding a tiny tea cup. [[User:Alex Vostox|Alex Vostox]] ([[User talk:Alex Vostox|talk]])

==Everything feels so weak... and it is==
Seriously since playing for the past few days (Early Enlister) everything Ive used thus far feels so incredibly weak barring Scout weapons and Shotguns that nearly everybody I've faced feel like bullet sponges what with the developers infamous netcode issues on bullet registeration. The LMG's you'd believe to be fairly powerful but they are so misleading because they do the exact damage as most of the SMG's, some examples are the BAR M1918, M1909 and Lewis Gun which do the same damage as the M1918 Automatico at 21 per shot and the Madsen and MG15 do around 23 per shot within 20 meters. Some of the Medic's rifles take nearly 3-4 bullets just to down a single soldier making most of the Medic's rifles such as the Model 8 .35 and Luger 1906 (which is a level 10 final unlock for the Medic) useless because their magazine sizes are so small, only the Mondragon and Selbstrader M1916 kill in a consistent three shots at all ranges and M1907, Cei Rigotti and Model 8 .25 kill in about 3 shots at 25 meters and 4 at everything else. The pistols aren't too bad because they have the highest variety in damage in my opinion however the M1911 makes almost all but the Revolvers and specility pistols obsolete thus far because it simply outshines them in every way. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 15:30, 22 October 2016 (EDT)
:Most MGs are not supposed to be used within 20m and are therefore rather ineffective at it; mid-long range is where they shine. They're among the best weapons in the game if you can make the most of them, they just have a steeper learning curve. The Lewis does feel a bit average, and the Low Weight (no attachment) MGs will almost certainly be getting a buff (as the benefits of no attachments don't really apply to the MGs' spread mechanics). SLRs being 3-4 hits makes perfect sense to me; use them as "rifles" not "DMRs", if that differentiation makes sense to you. The Remington .35 is one of my favourite guns, but it's ''hard'' to master, I most definitely haven't yet. It has the highest RoF in the class and the accuracy to make use of that RoF, with good damage, but only five rounds. It has among the fastest kill time potential, but making every shot count, reloading as much as possible, and having a solid sidearm are all musts. It's a technically demanding, but highly rewarding rifle. And it shows off your emblem much better than most guns do. :3 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:44, 22 October 2016 (EDT)

::This is exactly why I have such a problem getting into Battlefield games. Every gun just feels so weak and every soldier is a bullet sponge. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 19:04, 27 October 2016 (EDT)
:::I hear what you're saying (the bullet sponge thing is why I stay away from Halo and Destiny mp) but I like it because, for me, it's not about the kills. My multiplayer FPS skills are very mediocre. For me, having a break even K/D ratio in a round is a success. Playing as a medic and healing or resurrecting teammates is just as fulfilling as getting kills.--[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] ([[User talk:John Ryder|talk]]) 22:37, 28 October 2016 (EDT)

==Suppressed weapons==

It's cool that I've never seen a suppressed 03 Springfield but...it's a suppressed 03 Springfield with a Warner & Swasey Scope....it's just weird. Everything from how plentiful SMGs and semi-auto rifles are. What surprised me is during the only American mission, you don't get any BARs if this was their point [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:44, 25 October 2016 (EDT)

== Placeholder Rifle ==

Does anyone know what happened to it? --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 08:18, 26 October 2016 (EDT)
:It left the game, moved to Wisconsin, and got a job in insurance. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 20:16, 12 December 2016 (EST) Hey look you can type after your post's signature. Neat.

== Rifle grenades? ==

I have been playing the game now for a few days and I think I saw someone using rifle grenades. Can anybody confirm that they are ingame? For which weapons are they available? Which types of rifle grenades are ingame? Can someone please cap Screenshots and add them to this page? I haven't unlocked them yet.--[[User:Hchris|Hchris]] ([[User talk:Hchris|talk]]) 16:18, 27 October 2016 (EDT)

Yes, there are rifle grenades in both the single-player campaign and multiplayer. In multiplayer, they can be used only by the Medic class in the Gadget Slots. The three types are: Fragmentation, High Explosive, and Smoke. They can be bought with 60 War Bonds each. --[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] ([[User talk:John Ryder|talk]]) 17:16, 27 October 2016 (EDT)

== Weapon Variants ==

I added a Weapon variants section to the front page to better explain the various weapon variants you get in Battlefield 1. I'll leave it upto a mod whether or not it deserves being placed in the main page or being moved to the Discussion page. Also added additional details to a few sections to better describe how the weapon function in-game. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 23:11, 30 October 2016 (EDT)
:All the new info there looks fantastic and correct, thank you! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 21:11, 31 October 2016 (EDT)

== Scout rifle monopod ==

The monopod on certain scout rifle variants is actually modelled off of a Schutzen palm rest. http://csharpsarms.com/catalog-detail/382/1874-SCHUETZEN-SPORTING-RIFLE-IN-32-40.html --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 21:27, 13 November 2016 (EST)

== Shotgun ventilated rib ==

I've noticed that the shotgun customization typically allows for you to choose between a heat shield or barrel rib for the sights, but were ventilated barrels a thing around WWI?--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:47, 11 December 2016 (EST)

== Giant's Shadow ==

So, the Giant's Shadow DLC is coming out soon, and it apparently includes a new Support gadget: a crossbow. Now, I know that we normally don't include such things, but I think this one might be a bit different. You see, in practical terms, it's less of a crossbow and more of a ''grenade launcher''. It has a fixed cup attached to the string, into which hand grenades (Millis Bombs, I'm fairly certain) are inserted, then fired. Any thoughts? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 20:14, 12 December 2016 (EST)
:I'd just mention it on the Mills bomb section, could add some screens whenever.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:17, 12 December 2016 (EST)
::Well, if it's a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauterelle Sauterelle] or something we should ID it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:02, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::Doesn't seem like it, seeing as this thing's man-portable, unlike the Sauterelle. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:06, 13 December 2016 (EST)

==Frommer Stop Auto==
Is there a particular designation for this fully-automatic variant? I don't think that the current "Frommer Stop Auto M1912" title on the page is the most appropriate (from what I've seen online, this seems to be a generic name for the original weapon). The full-auto version that is dual-mounted upside down on a tripod is the M1917, but I'm not sure if this designation also applies to the single machine pistol seen in-game. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 15:47, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:"Dual-mounted upside down on a tripod". World War 1 was a strange, strange time period. On a more serious note, I don't see why it wouldn't be called an M1917, as it's just half of an M1917 without a tripod, but I think that I'm probably not the best person to ask (I'm also not the best person to ask as to why I even bothered writing this). [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:09, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::Well, after doing more research, the two pistols of the "strange" M.17 mount [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6KGXpiN4Mk kinda differ] from the variant that I'm talking about. The in-game full-auto weapon [http://www.rwnaf.org/collections/display?type=collection_items&id=325 is apparently an M1912] like the standard semi-auto one, we might just have to change the section heading to "Frommer Stop machine pistol" or something (I took care of it for now). --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 17:31, 13 December 2016 (EST)

== Vive la France! ==

French Army would appear in DLC They Shall Not Pass. So what we can see on concept art:
[[File:FRENCH DLC HINT - Battlefield 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Chauchat]] at the left looks a little strange, as it seems to lack the grip below the magazine. An officer at the right holds a pistol, possibly a [[Star Ruby]] that is also predictable (nevertheless he carries a revolver holster). Rifles are nondescript, but the general shape tend to Berthier rather than Lebel. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 02:49, 18 December 2016 (EST)

Will they include a gameplay mechanic where everyone playing a French character in MP can immediately surrender the moment a round starts? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 12:43, 18 December 2016 (EST)

:Looks like a fortress, I'm guessing Verdun? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil8 Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 12:47, 18 December 2016 (EST)
:: This is WW1 France, not WW2. Dudes were hardcore.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 23:44, 29 December 2016 (EST)

Spartan198 I will give the bad news. No. Look at Italian faction... can they change side while fighting? XD --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 10:17, 10 January 2017 (EST)

== An interesting thing to note about "K bullets" ==

What I've noticed is that, unlike a normal reload, when switching to K bullets, the character lets the unfired normal round eject from the rifle, and when you switch back to the normal rounds, there will be one round missing from your mag. that being said, the K bullet that is ejected when switching back to normal rounds is not accounted for (likely for gameplay reasons, as we only get 5, but maybe we're supposed to assume that the character catches it offscreen after he racks the bolt). Another thing that I will have to try out is the feature where holding down the trigger prevents the character from cycling the action on manual weapons. maybe switching to K bullets while the trigger is being held after firing will make the spent casing be ejected instead of an unfired round?--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 12:24, 29 December 2016 (EST)
:You do indeed lose a round from your magazine when switching to K-Bullets and back, but you don't lose it from your inventory, it's simply transferred to spare ammo, and K-Bullets work the same. I just tried to check what ejects, and you're going to need to freeze-frame it to catch it. I'd figure anything that ejects is always a spent case, just for simplicity since it's really not noticeable at all. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:24, 29 December 2016 (EST)

Talk:Once Upon a Time in the West

2016-11-01T06:52:19Z

Cozmo:

the song that harmonica all ways plays is haunting

:Very similar to the Frank Nitti theme from 1987's The Untouchables (also scored by Ennio Morricone). [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 02:52, 1 November 2016 (EDT)

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2016-11-01T03:39:46Z

Cozmo: /* Mistake? */

__TOC__

=Additional Notes/Trivia=

==Interesting Uniform Note==
Just wanted to point out an interesting observation about the uniforms worn by the Rangers; this is one of the few films to accurately depict the transition from the 6-color "chocolate chip" camouflage made famous during Desert Storm to the 3-color "coffee stain" pattern that was used throughout the rest of the 1990's and during the invasion and early occupation of Iraq in the early 2000's. During the transition between these two camouflage patterns, it was common to see a combination of the two patterns on the same soldier; they would wear the new DCU's with the old 6-color on their PASGT helmets. Practically all the Rangers in the film have this combination.

[[Image:BHDMinimi-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|[[Tom Hardy]] wielding an FN Minimi as Spc. Twombly, giving us a good look at his 3-color DCU uniform and 6-color helmet cover]]

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

=Discussion=
== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

''"I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele"'' - Corrected the section as noted. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 13:56, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Hey, correctness is a virtue. Good on you for doing it. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 01:39, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Ah yes, I remember that passage. Thanks for the quote. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE'''''
:::::The M21 is the sniper version of the M14. So you're both right. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 23:32, 31 October 2016 (EDT)

:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::::Blemo is correct. Yurek was removing the magazine to deny the enemy. As Gunmaster45 says, anyone can reload the weapon, yes. But by removing the mag and tossing it away, he prevented them from being able to simply pick up the weapon and begin firing it. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 23:39, 31 October 2016 (EDT)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

::::::Those of you who were saying he was denying the enemy are correct. You'll notice that he doesn't pocket the magazine. He tosses it away. He didn't field strip it because he likely didn't know how. So the easiest thing to do would be to unload it and throw the magazine away. I was in the military and we were trained to be observant and look for things that would compromise security (like unsecured enemy weapons). One thing you never do is use ammo you find lying around on the street, and in any case, M14Fanboy was right in that the calibers of the US weapons were totally incompatible with the Soviet rounds. Smashing the rifle would have taken time and energy that needed to be spent elsewhere. Besides, it's a rifle...not an airsoft gun. Have you ever tried to smash a real AK? There's a reason it's been in service for so many years... [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 01:52, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

::::: I believe it was because he was firing his M14 until it ran out of ammo, and then using a helo crew member's M16 before retreating to reload both rifles.:::

:::- Yes, that's the case. Gordon is also seen dropping his CAR-15 when it's empty and using his 1911. Later, when Shughart is killed, he fires the M14 'til it's empty, then switching to his 1911, and when that is empty, using an MP5 from the chopper. Hell, they're being overwhelmed, and it is quicker to pick up and and shoot another weapon that is ready than reload the present one. They were pretty much using whatever they could trying their damndest to fend an army off, I would think that was obvious. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

::::: Just to add to Stan's comment, I seem to recall hearing that at one point they even tried to use the crashed chopper's Miniguns. Not sure if this was true or not as the M134 requires electrical power to operate the weapon and I'm not sure what state the chopper's power system would be in following the crash. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] ([[User talk:Orca1 9904|talk]]) 16:15, 29 May 2016 (EDT)

:::::: The engines would need to be running to generate the power for the Miniguns. I believe that later helicopters (don't know if it was because of this incident specifically) have a battery backup for the Miniguns so that they could work if the engines and APU weren't running. They may have actually tried to operate them by hand cranking the barrel cluster. This is something that you might assume would work as the barrels, delinker and feeder are all connected together to the motor so if you turn one they all turn. The problem is though that it doesn't work and the guns will just jam up. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:09, 29 May 2016 (EDT)

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I did read Mike Durant's book and would like to point out he referred to Randy's weapon as a High-Tech rifle. as we all no, it was a vietnam era M14. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 21:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:I just stared reading Durant's "In the Company of Heroes" before he called it a "German piece of crap", he said the MP5 had shot fine at the range but he probably had neglected to clean it. It was after Shughart gave him Gordon's CAR-15 which didn't jam and was far more effective despite only having half a mag left he thought of the MP5 as a piece of shit. He also had an M9 that he never drew, which he said probably saved his life since he wasn't seen as a threat. While Shughart's M14 isn't really a "High-Tech rifle" it was a lot better than a bolt-gun in the situation he was in. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:52, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I was always under the assumption that it was taken to be put to rest with the rest of the body. Never leave a soldier behind.
That all said, i was always told by SF soldier i knew that they were trained to even go as far as to scoop up vomit they might have left to not leave behind any traces of themselves. -MissySummers-

The film (as everyone knows) took liberally from Mark Bowden's book. The film splits one incident ("the hand" and the "RPG in the chest") into two different scenes. According to Bowden's book (and the actual accounts of the Rangers) the hand belonged to SP4 Richard 'Alphabet' Kowalewski. It was blown off when an RPG hit him in the chest (while in the cab of a truck), but did not explode. PFC Clay Othic was in the truck when the RPG hit, but did not pick up Kowalewski's hand. It was SP4 Aaron Hand (ironic?) that "found the lower portion of Alphabet's arm on the street. All that remained intact was the hand. He picked it up and put it in his side pants pocket. He didn't know what else to do, and it didn't feel right leaving it behind." (quoted portion from Bowden's book "Black Hawk Down"). So, the film split the one incident into two scenes. The first scene of Othic picking up a hand, that in the film, could not have belonged to Kowalewski and the second (and later) scene of Kowalewski being hit and killed by the RPG rocket that did not explode. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 21:41, 19 October 2013 (EDT)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

'''Don't forget about the 10th Mountain and the U.N Soldiers. Whoever created this page missed them completly and they had alot of firearms. Whats omore is i can't for some reason edit the page. the autheor needs to fix this right away'''

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::I'm fairly certain this convo is referring to the later M4 with detachable carry handle. That's why I mentioned the 727 having an A2 upper. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:44, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

All gear that is used in the US Army has to be tested. Part of this testing cycle is to give it to SF, Rangers, Delta, etc. to field it before it is approved for widespread use. Considering the length of trials and the endless bureaucracy in the DoD, it is completely plausible that these guys had the first generation of the M4 in TFR/OGS. I saw a SCAR in the wild on my latest deployment to Afghanistan last year. These guys are like the pro athletes of the military world. All sorts of manufacturers will just give them gear to use in order to try to get them to reccomend it... Optics, armor, boots, gun accessories, etc...

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

::Which is funny, because when Griz is drawing in the barracks and Busch walks up behind him, he calls him "Griz." But not "all" Delta had their names changed. Norm Hooten was really there, but for the movie they combined him with John Macejunas. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:04, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

I read somewhere that Delta Operators are given an allowance to pay for their 1911 and any customisations they want done to it. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:59, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.
:Isn't GAU-17 an Air Force designation? When the weapon is in Army use isn't it still referred to as the M-134? --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 19:15, 2 February 2013 (EST)
::Yes, but it is the designation for a particular variant of the M134 which is what was used in the film. As far as I know there is no Army designation for this variant so I can only assume that they refer to it as the GAU-17/A. If not, using this term is still clearer than "M134 variant that would be the GAU-17/A if it was in the USAF". I'm guessing the term is universal, as the Navy use it for airborne mountings and refer to it as the GAUSE-17/A (with the SE standing for Shipboard Equipment) when it is mounted to the deck of a ship for point defence. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:42, 2 February 2013 (EST)
:::To weigh in on this again (first comment), I don't think the answer is "M134 variant that would be the GAU-17/A if it was in the USAF" nor is it "GAU-17." The answer is, it's a GE M134 with DA upgrades. The reason that is the answer, is that is what is stated in the film commentary, and that is what it is. The Minigun is an interesting weapon in that, as far as the US Army is concerned, the designation doesn't change, even though the weapon has, significantly. A stock GE Minigun, a PI GE Minigun with DA upgrades and a DA Minigun are all "M134" as far as the Army is concerned. The manufacturers' designations of M134D, M134D-T, M134D-H, M134G, M134GI etc are not recognized designations in the Army. Just because the weapon has a vented flash hider doesn't make it a GAU-17. The original DA flash hiders were vented anyway before they adopted a non-vented flash hider for their ground-up built Miniguns. --[[User:Gau17|Gau17]] ([[User talk:Gau17|talk]]) 15:25, 22 November 2013 (EST)

== Remington 870 Shotgun ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

As indicated on the main page and above (by an unknown poster), the Remington 870 Shotgun is seen being used by an extra/stuntman to breech a door right after being dropped by the Little Birds. The extra/stuntman IS NOT William Fichtner as evidenced by the images below - his individual equipment does not match that of Fichtner's. Further there are "on set" photographs showing at least one extra/stuntman equipped with the same type Remington 870 in addition to the one carried by Fichtner. The scene is from the "Black Hawk Down Extended Cut," NOT a "director's cut" (as the unknown person posted above). Ridley Scott has yet to do a "director's cut" of "Black Hawk Down," and I doubt he ever will due to his negative feelings about how the [[Alien]] and [[Blade Runner]] Director's Cuts turned out.
[[Image:BHD001.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown extra/stuntman preparing to fire a Remington 870. He also carries one of the rubber stunt prop M4 carbines that appear throughout the film in the hands of different extras, stuntmen, and actors. Note: there were no actual "firing" M4 carbines utilized in the film - only rubber stunt props of them.]]
[[Image:BHD002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown extra/stuntman firing a Remington 870.]]
Further, MSG (SFC in 1993) Paul Howe did indeed carry, and utilize, a CAR-15 (his was a Colt Model 653) with a 12-gage shotgun mounted on it (at least two photographs exist of him with the weapon prior to the operation). The term "Masterkey" is anachronistic as Knight's Armament came up with the term years later. At the time (1993) Ciener was the only company producing a shotgun mount for M16-series rifles and carbines. They simply called it an "under/over mount." [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 21:24, 19 October 2013 (EDT)

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v
:Not to mention a flashlight beam in that environment would scream, "here I am, shoot me!" [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

That's Jeremy Piven, nowadays best known for playing Ari Gold on HBO's Entourage. Wikipedia says he played CFO Clifton Wolcott.

:I do not think it Piven. In the film he plays a pilot role and his hair is black.
http://files.haiguinet.com/flashupload/UploadedFiles/1252005569_159Jeremy_Piven.jpg
http://emsworth.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jeremy-piven-in-black-hawk-down-2.jpg
When I put the photos on the page, before to name him "delta actor", I looked for the name of this guy in the entire cast. Unsuccessfully. I think it is a stunt.--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Definitely not Piven. Maybe he's a stand-in or something. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:06, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

::Flight gloves, as I just fucking explained, are not restrictive or obstructive in the slightest.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

:::- ''Uh, I had replied below I didn't know about these gloves specifically, which you seem to have failed to notice. Just as you also seem to have failed to notice that all these comments you posted this slightly irritable and unnecessary response in-between were all posted '''days ago'''. It might help if you thoroughly read the comments and check the dates next time.'' [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Flight gloves are a very thin layer of Nomex with a Clarino palm and finger overlaid. These are very light, wick sweat, and give you tactile feeling and the ability to perform tasks as though you were bare handed. They are maybe a few mm thick on the palms, and do not affect in any way your shooting ability or accuracy, even whilst firing an M249, which is notorious for running away due to gloves getting stuck and holding the trigger back.

:::I was in the Army for 9 years, and I wore flight gloves all the time during exercises. I never had a problem with them whatsoever. I was a SAW gunner as well. Whoever posted that caption about trained operators not wearing gloves is an idiot. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:14, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

==Discussion about the bullets, or something==
- Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Geneva convention forbids hollow point ammo in the military. The Police of the nation is a different subject. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:You're thinking of the Hague Convention of 1899, not the Geneva Convention.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was the GC or HC and didn't really care to look it up at the moment.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Hague banned all use of ammunition that easily expands or flattens in a human target. I have no exact idea of what round is being used or how it gets around the HC, I only know that when asked about the effectiveness of 5.56 ammunition, a few SF guys made mention that have been issued a new "expanding" round. I have also heard that Marines are now being issued an expanding type round. It may be that since we are not actually fighting an official "military force" that the HC and GC do not apply. Also you must remember that the use of .50 cal against personnel is banned too, how often do you think that is observed?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not saying we follow either conventions to a T in every war, I'm just echoing what I heard from a man who was there. A lot of people who lived through the battle of mogadishu came away with the feeling that Bill Clinton cared more about how headlines would look than he did about the safety of our soldiers. As for HC and GC not applying, I agree that they really don't apply to A) organizations that are not militaries but instead ragtag terrorist groups and B) hail from nations that didn't exist at the time of the convention and never signed a similar document. It's the same argument that was applied for the waterboarding of captured terrorists; apparently, they apply some standards to those who didn't sign, but not others. Personally, I think that terrorist groups and undeveloped countries where they never signed the conventions shouldn't get the protection of them, and we really need to invest into expanding ammunitions for everyone; AP doesn't make sense for unarmored targets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The question about observing the laws was rhetorical in nature. But I agree wholeheartedly about what you say pertaining to the HC and GC applying to people who did not sign it. Its like bringing pirates and terrorists into the US to give them civilian trials. People say they should get military trials... When according to the GC (that people are so happy to apply to the situation) pirates and terrorists are not able to receive either. We selectively apply laws to make us look good internationally, when in reality it costs money, and even worse lives of US citizens and military forces.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 12:36, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances full metal jacket .556 is an ideal round. When fighting a traditional battle, against an enemy that follows the rules of war, it is far better to wound the enemy than kill him. Gunner313

We haven't fought a conventional war that lasted any period of time since Korea (and you could even say WWII, since Korea was less than conventional). Also with the way the enemy works now, any intel we can gather from enemy combatants will likely be useless (if it ever was useful) by the time it gets to the guys on the ground. Also as stated by me, and others before, under 50 yards and especially against an enemy that is drugged up a FMJ is likely not going to down an enemy either by wounding him or killing him. Of course shot placement comes into play heavily, but as cases have proven a COM shot is likely not to drop a determined attacker immediately. Head and extremity shots are also very hard to make, with FMJ pretty much the only way to immediately and most important reliably drop an attacker at close range is a pelvic shot. But now days in Afghanistan most fighting is taking place on the far end if not beyond the 5.56's effective range. Also Gunner313 it is 5.56, not .556, .556mm is a really damn small projectile haha. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 14:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

One could say that the First Gulf War was conventional. we were fighting an organized military(Iraq), i still think they were a bunch of crazy towel heads hellbent on destroying the western world.[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Why is it better to wound them? -SasquatchJim.

Because then you can detain them get information from them.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. I apologize; I thought he meant that wounding them was more humane, or something. Although, dead people can't keep shooting at you; wounded ones can. -SasquatchJim

It is better to wound them because it requires the enemy to care for their wounded, they have to be treated, they have to be transported, it is demoralizing to the others to hear someone in terrible pain, so for a short time a wounding shot, takes two people out of the fight. Also the more medical supplies that have to be shipped to the front for the wounded, means less of other items such as ammo, food, fuel, misc... Gunner313

Makes sense to me. Thanks. -SJ

Well in my opinion, I still think it's better to kill the enemy rather than just wound them, that way they don't get patched up and come back later to kill you.

agreed. especially in Somalia when if their not dead their gunna come back and shoot you in the back. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:- Bah, can't believe my one off-hand comment spawned all this. Heh. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing to add other than that this was really informative. This site is one of the best blind discoveries I've made on the internet. --[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] 01:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Never Forget==
Sorry to post as anon, but I dont have an account but frequent the site. Just wanted to point out that today is the 17th anniversary of the US intervention in Somalia.

:- Actually the anniversary is for the mission and subsequent battle portrayed in the film. The 'intervention' began as Operation Provide Relief, which started in December 1992. Still, good to point it out. EDIT - I actually just realized that not only is it the anniversary, but the actual day is correct (That is, Oct. 3 was a Sunday, same day as the Oct. 3 in the battle). Again, pretty cool I guess. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The entire day yesterday i thought about it. i decided to watch the movie being Sunday Oct-3. i also found it fit to say a pray for the brave soldiers who lost their lives fighting to help the ungratefull bastards. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun ==

What gun have Mo'alim in his shoulder? He don't remove it from the shoulder at any time, but there are two scenes where you can see:

1 When prevents the killing of Duran:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/

2 When the cannon is firing in the area of the first downed helicopter:
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/

are you referring to the AK-74u? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:37, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I think he is referring to the pistol in his shoulder holster under his left arm. Can't make it out though, will have to have a look on my Bluray version when I get a minute, but don't think it can be seen well enough to make it out. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 10:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

i wasn't aware he had a shoulder holster? can you upload a photo?[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it is a revolver or a pistol:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/
i couldnt see anything on the 2nd picture but the first was definetly a revolver. my guess, and im not expert with revolvers would be a .38 or 357 perhaps a S&W? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== Doc Schmid ==
In the movie PFC Kurt "Doc" Schmid is shown as a Ranger medic but in reality he was Delta Force. It's curious why they chose to depict him as a Ranger and not a Delta operator in the movie.

Maybe they forgot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is somewhat unrelated, but I found it really funny that Schmid is played by the same actor who later played [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185836/ Adam]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

''"In the movie PFC Kurt "Doc" Schmid is shown as a Ranger medic but in reality he was Delta Force"'' - Added this information to the front page. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 13:58, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

==tapeing==
i was just watching this , and i noticed that a majority of the rangers taped the ends of the butt stocks on their rifles . Why is that?-[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]
:I believe that tape was used (not quite sure how) to attach the sling to the butt of the rifle. Tape is also used at the front of the rifle, to attach a loop of para cord around the front sight to the sling. The reason this was done was so that the sling would be attached on the top/side of the weapon, rather than the bottom (where the only fitted sling loops are) to make it more usable in combat. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:25, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

i noticed nearly all the mag's have brown tape on them, any reasons for this, or is it just purely cosmetic? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:32, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

STANAG Magazines are smooth and can be hard to grip on to to reload, especially in a high stress situation like combat. The tape helps you to grip the magazine for a speedy reload, MAGPUL makes sleeves that slide over them now. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 3:31, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Nelson's M60 ==

Is is correct to have Nelson carrying the Vietnam Era M60 over the M60E3 or E4? I'm not sure when the E3 or E4 came out.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 03:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

:The M60 used in the film is an original spec M60, the same as were actually used by the Rangers in Somalia (As identified by the hand guard and bi-pod attaching at the end of the barrel). Not sure exactly when the E3 was made (started being issues in 1986), but I know there was one in the 1985 film [[Commando]]. Regardless, I don't think it was that widely used, as the lighter weight barrel and other parts made the gun more prone to overheating and malfunction. The rangers actually used a mix of M60s and FN MAGs as shown below:
:[[Image:101120ritchie20pursley8yp.jpg|thumb|500px|none]]

::''"Is is correct to have Nelson carrying the Vietnam Era M60 over the M60E3 or E4"'' - Yes, because the United States Army never adopted the M60E3 - the United States Navy and Marines Corps however did. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

:Also, there has been talk on this page about what the actual weapons used by Delta where, and I cannot speak to this operation in particular, but in most of the photos I have seen of Delta force in Somalia, there are actually armed with M16A2s, normally with a telescopic sight mounted onto the carry handle (example below). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/9607/21820burns20weaver6az.jpg

::The photograph linked above DOES NOT depict Delta operators, they are Rangers. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

::Delta operators in Somalia used Colt Model 723 carbines with M4 style barrel, at least watching the few pictures of that time. --[[User:Pz.Abt.100|X-Ray Bravo 6]] 13:54, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

::: The Model 723s utilized by Delta operators, during Operation Gothic Serpent, DID NOT have the ''"M4 style barrel"'' - they had the standard barrel. Further they utilized Model 653s along with the Model 723s and Model 727s. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

:::Did the Rangers at the time use a black ballistic vest in addition to the woodland RBAs? While searching for M60 photos saw several photos of people in black vests carrying M16A2s with an optic on the handle, also sometimes carrying shotguns and LAWs. Are these likely Rangers rather than Delta then? Also, there are pictures of rangers using colt carbines with the step down M4 type barrels, so I think there was a much wider variety of weapons used than the film shows. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
::::The Rangers only wore Woodland camo RBA (Ranger Body Armor) vests and desert-camo PASGT helmets during the operation (see the "Interesting Uniform Note" section above for info about the desert camo patterns used in the film). Black vests were Delta-issue only. Sort of like present-day spec. ops units using Dragon Skin vests while the main Army uses Interceptor/IOTV vests (though it's not as easy to tell the difference between the modern-day examples by looking at them. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

In the book there was specific mention of a couple of the Rangers being stuck with the Delta "Turtle" Armor because they didn't have enough of the Ranger vests for a while.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 09:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks, that explains photos like the following one then (also, note the Colt carbines with M4 type barrels the Rangers are carrying.)
:[[Image:RangersM4.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

:Also, can anyone shed some light as to what is going on with this SAW:
:[[Image:Saw.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
:First off, isn't this an E2, rather than the E1 as the main article says was used by the Rangers? Also, why does it look like the receiver is made of different metal, and is the sight mount a standard fitting, or something cobbled together? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 00:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Another thing the book mentions is that Delta's Armorer played gunsmith for some of the Ranger guys (at least 1 customized SAW is mentioned).-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

that part of the book is referring to Spc. Waddell's SAW and i believe is was a grip that was put on. i would also like to shed some light on the fact that in 1993 only the Armys Special Ops like Delta Force had that kind of ability on their weapons, and now every soldier on the battlefield has the ability to put on optics, lights, lasers, and stocks. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:22, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes that is the part I was referring to, although I remember there being more than just a grip added, but its been a while. Also Rangers aren't basic infantry, they too are a part of USASOC. and in a combat zone leeway with weapons (also uniforms, gear, etc) is pretty much at the command's discretion. I believe that they would allow Rangers a bit of leeway with modifying their weapons in certain ways to enhance their effectiveness in a given environment. Spc. Waddell's SAW grip would have been noticed by his command at some point, and either him or the Delta armorer would have had to get permission to modify it, being that it is US Gov property (not to mention the other customized weapons we see in Ranger's hands in photos).-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 04:31, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Just noticing. Why do some people call it an "M4" type barrel? I mean it's a rifle in service before the M4 came out, so shouldn't it NOT be called an M4 barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:48, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

You got me on that one... Probably because most people know the "M203 Step" Barrel as an M4 feature, so it gets genericised as an "M4 Profile Barrel".-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:53, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I mean didn't they have the step down barrel before the M4 came about? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe so, but it would have only been within a couple years of the M4s debut (the Colt 727 comes to mind). Another reason would be marketing, people will pay more for a milspec carbine that has the "M203 step barrel" so companies market the rifles as having "M4 profile barrels".-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:41, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Is this the only film to have someone shooting an M16 on burst-fire mode? ==

I would kinda doubt it, but it's the only time I've ever seen it. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 06:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

You referring to when Daniel Busch is sliding out from under the Walcott bird? That's the only time I remember. [[User:Thursday|Thursday]] 07:51, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

He's referring to a point where one of the Rangers kills an approaching Somali with a three round burst from his M-16A2. Sgt. Busch is using an M727 and fires quick single shots to kill the miltia approaching the Blackhawk. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 08:16, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, can remember any burst stuff, I'll re-watch it after work. And I'm very aware Busch had a 727. I wonder why Gary Gordons rifle wasn't on burst in the movie, it was in real life. [[User:Thursday|Thursday]] 15:29, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

They're referring to the part near the end when the rangers are running out of the city and one of them guns down a woman who picks up a rifle. As for burst mode: most likely the M16 in question was a full auto weapon (as virtually all of them in Hollywood are) and the actor simply fired a couple of short bursts (possibly with some editing done by the sound and special effects teams) to make in appear as though he was using burst mode.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 17:39, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

== RPG Shooting ==

I was just looking through the section regarding the RPGs, and noticed something peculiar. Look at the shooter in the first picture. Now look at the guy in the second. Now back at the first. Is it just me, or are the two guys shooting down the two different helicopters from two different places actually the ''exact same guy''? Notice the matching folds in their clothing, and the cloth wrapped around their heads, and their silhouettes. They're all identical. Anyone else see what I'm seeing? [[User:August.allocco|August.allocco]] 18:20, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

== M16A2 ==

I think The M16A2's in the film are actual real ones. the lower reciever is that of an actual A2, and they fire in two modes only, Semi and 3 round burst.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

==Question==

Why was Gordon's 727 suppressed? In the book, it says that he was providing sniper cover from the air until he landed to defend the downed Black Hawk, but wouldn't it make more sense to fire unsuppressed. I mean, why would he worry about making too much noise when theres a battle going on? And wouldn't this decrease the muzzle velocity, surely that would make sniping from the air much harder.

: Might have been a flash suppressor. But it might also be Hollywood getting mixed in there. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 15:38, 1 December 2015 (EST)
:: Bah, it's plainly a sound suppressor (or 'silencer' as some would call it) on Gordon's M733, not just a flash hider (though proper sound suppressors still suppress muzzle flash as well). That said, the 733 is a considerably short-barreled weapon normally and the suppressor would give some extra length aiding in accuracy, though it would be at the cost of some muzzle velocity (which would probably be mostly negligible in the environment/ranges he's operating at). The more bluntly obvious explanation is that it's a film that takes a few liberties and obviously doesn't follow the book to the letter for any number of reasons. Finally, I doubt any of this matters to the (unsigned) user who originally asked this and who also seemingly hasn't been on the site since making said inquiry - more than 4 years ago now. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 01:48, 2 December 2015 (EST)

==M16A2s==
[[Image:BHDM16A2-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]
It seems that all of the so-called "M16A2s" have forward assists and are probably M16A1s with M16A2 handguards or mocked up to resemble an M16A2. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 10:16, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

Not to sound disrespectful but what the hell are you talking about? The M16 in that screenshot clearly has the A2 sights and the A2s have forward assists as well. They are not A1s with A2 handguards because of the A2 sights. They could possibly have A1 lowers to make them fully automatic as opposed to firing 3 round bursts like the A2 does. But externally they are definitely an M16A2. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 11:03, 15 October 2011 (CDT)
:Makes sense as MPM2008's images of the M16A2 are M16A2s with A1 lower receivers as one user pointed out, which caused some confusion for me when I started learning about the M16A2. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 14:55, 15 October 2011 (CDT)
:: The point is those could actually be real deal M16A2s as they fire semi auto in every shot apart from at the end where one Ranger fires what looks like a 3 round burst anyway. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:40, 16 October 2011 (CDT)
Firstly M16A2s have forward assists, so there is no reason that having the FA would make it an A1. Secondly, the guns have brass deflectors (triangular protrusion behind the ejection port) which A2s have and A1s don't. Thirdly these guns have the more complicated adjustable rear sights of A2s. The guns in this film do use M16A1 pattern lower receivers, as noted by the lack of reinforcement around the takedown pins, but I don't think they are actually Colt lowers as the M16A1 type lowers didn't have the fire selector markings stamped on the right side of the gun. Also, MPM2008's image of an M16A2 is correct, it is the M16A1 images which have the wrong lower receiver (not a standard Colt lower as it has the front reinforcement of an A2, but like the A1 lacks the rear reinforcement and right side fire selector stampings). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:07, 16 October 2011 (CDT)
::Hold on. Upon seeing this picture, I started wondering why some of the Army or Special Forces personnel will have their rifle stock and or end of magazine taped with different colours? Is it just a habit or to serve other purposes?
:::The tape on the magazine is to make it easier to grip, since STANAG magazines are fairly smooth; I guess it's the same theory with the stock. Tape can also be used to mark magazines for easier recognition of special loads (say, a tracer-heavy magazine for marking targets). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:29, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
::::I think the tape on the stock is actually something to do with the way the sling is attached on to the rifle. They don't seem to be using the sling loop at the bottom of the stock, instead I think it is just attached to paracord wrapped around the stock and held in place with the tape. The main reasons I have seen for wrapping tape around the bottom of a magazine was to hold a loop of paracord in place to make it easier to get the magazine out of a webbing pouch (the pre Magpul solution) or for marking magazine loads as Evil Tim said. This is not the case here so I suppose it must be for grip, but seems odd that the tape is around the middle of the magazine rather than the bottom, where the the magazine would be held to get it out of a pouch. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:52, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
:::::Sorry, but when do they fire the guns on full auto? I saw the movie not too long ago and i only saw them fireing on semi and 3 round burst. I never saw a full auto one. --[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]
::::::Right towards the end of the film one of the Rangers fires two quick bursts. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:51, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I'm just watching the movie to look out for burst/auto, but jsut noticed something else. Can't screencap blurays, but at 50 minuted in as Eversmann is watching the first blackhawk go down you see the butt of his rifle, showing that it is from an A1 rifle. Also, at 40:30 when Hoot is pushing gown the heads of the prisoners as they are captured, the Delta behind him has a CAR-15 with 10" barrel, no forward assist or brass deflector, and possibly a partial fence lower (out of focus and hard to tell), making it an XM177, also called GAU-5/A. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:22, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
:::::::: ok, but Cool-breeze, you just said he fired two quick BURSTS. Not a full auto drag. I just rewatched that scene and he fired two quick THREE round bursts.--[[UserGunner5|Gunner5]]
:::::::::Yeah but the likelihood that it is an M16A2 with an A2 lower is very remote as pretty much every motion picture M16A2 I've seen fires full auto at some point. The only way to find out if it has a burst lower is if there is a decent screen grab so we can read the markings on the receiver. I think Black Hawk Down is the only film I've seen an A2 not firing full auto if it's not firing on semi. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 19:46, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::The guy fires 2 bursts, the second of which sound like it might have been 4, but it is off-screen so that proves nothing. These rifles have A1 lowers which would suggest that they are full auto. However in the screencap above, the third position (although hard to read) looks more like burst than auto. Swinging it back the other way though, A1 receivers shouldn't have selector markings on this side, so it is either a non Colt lower so could be burst or auto, or it has been engraved by the armourer to replicate an A2 so wouldn't necessarily be correct. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:00, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

can anyone tell me why the buttstocks are taped?-2ndCommandos

== M249/FN Minimi ==

This page lists Twombly's (and others') weapon as an FN Minimi standing in for an M249-E1.

However, the weapon in the movie clearly has U.S. M249-style rear sights, which was the main differentiator from the FN design it was based on.

I believe that the weapon is really a M249 (first edition, before the E1), not a FN Minimi.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_Down#FN_Minimi

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/FN_Minimi#FN_Minimi

:Problem is, from looking things up more recent Minimis have started using the SAW rear sight. Wikipedia's article on the Minimi has pictures of Swedish and Australian soldiers with SAW-rear-sight Minimis. IMO, these are more likely to be Minimis with new top covers than 1980s-vintage unimproved SAWs. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:07, 25 December 2011 (CST)

==Issue with some of the recent edits==

While I like how some parts are more detailed and some sections split/modified, I have a bit of an issue with the descriptions forcefully stating how actors and stuntmen are ''portraying'' the operators and soldiers. It seems a bit much, not to mention redundant - though based on an actual event, it is still a movie, and I would think it's generally assumed the actors are of course actors and stunt performers and ''aren't'' any of the actual operators/soldiers - to deliberately 'state' so seems kind of rich and perhaps a bit improper. In the case of the actors and their characters, we go by how they're credited, not who they are 'portraying' since its not always the same (the portrayals can be noted, but the actual credit shouldn't be ignored/removed) - if there are exceptions to this (such as the pilot) they are also noted but I thought it was pretty much common knowledge about how these are still actors, and that they may may 'portraying' certain individuals that don't match their credited role and that that doesn't need to be unduly, possibly negatively emphasized. What's more, I'm not sure omission of some information and even some additions are in the page's best interest (An edit by someone stating that they did away with 'some nonsense' is a bit harsh and frankly may not be said person's call) - There were some quotes or notations that were removed when there seemed to be no need to do so. Also the use of word 'allegedly' also seems a bit improper and unnecessary as well, especially in spots.

Generally it seems these edits don't keep a fully impartial and encyclopedic viewpoint, which is what I take issue with. Bottom line as I understand it, the site is foremost about documenting the movie's firearms and any information or notations relevant to that or in furtherance of that - the site is not here to make corrections about any and all factual errors regarding the events portrayed in this film, or indeed in any film, except again perhaps in regards to the firearms. It's also not about playing with semantics either. Any errors or such about the film that may or (generally) may not apply to the weapons should, for the most part, be kept on the discussion page. At least that is how I understand it. That said, any other significant edits being made should also be noted in the discussion before being made. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 16:23, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

: You're 100% correct. I'm going to undo the edits. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 16:30, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::There's no need to undo everything, just bring everything in line with our style. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:39, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
:::Will do.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 16:47, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::Am I the only person who wishes that Delta soldiers weren't called "operators"? It just sounds so corny in a bad, mall-ninja way. Not calling Delta mall-ninjas, but they ''really'' need a less cheesy name. It's not like "commando" was already taken.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 16:54, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::You can leave in the gun stuff, like the tidbit about the tape around the magazines, which is pretty interesting. "Commando" IS taken, is it not? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:58, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::: US doesn't have any "Commando" units. I'll put the tape bit back.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 17:05, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::::No, but when I read "commando," I think of the Brits first. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 17:13, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::::As well you should :) --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:20, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::::::See? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 17:39, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
: I think the term operator is alright.. it is proper nomenclature, isn't it? Otherwise looks alright.. I didn't mind things like the NSN for the carbine and all that, but that's only 'cause I'm into military-technical crap like that. :P Plus it has little to do with the movie weapons I suppose. Frankly I think the page was fine before the edits - I don't see why the other stuff couldn't have just been added on. Basically I have no problem with addition of anything relevant, but pejorative-sounding words and phrases and removal of possibly relevant info I take issue with. That said, I kinda liked the grouping of the Colt 727 and 733 and I liked that layout - sure it wasn't standard but it was a nice little specific feature of this film page which I liked a lot, but that's just me I guess.. The old notations in the 733 section about the ones with the XM177 muzzle moderator and Gordon's rifle with the suppressor and the like should probably be put back also since otherwise it would appear different weapons are grouped into the same entry. I could patch 'em up if you guys want, either way. Thanks fellas. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 17:37, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::The term Operator applies to members of Delta who have passed the Operator's Training Course and is also used to seperate the door-kickers from the support guys in the unit. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]])

== Why no SEALs in the movie? ==

Anyone happen to know why aren't the four DEVGRU operators in the movie? I know this is not a documentary but still. Was the ST6 involvement classified back in 2001? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 02:56, 31 March 2014 (EDT)
: The SEALs were mentioned in the 1999 book the movie is based on, guess the director figured that they already had a bunch of Delta, Rangers, and 160th guys to work with and four guy from a different unit weren't worth adding. And it's not like they'd be all that different from Delta in the end anyway. Just four guys in a slightly different uniform.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 14:55, 31 March 2014 (EDT)
:: I remember reading something written about when they were writing the script they already had to compress about 150 people into a more managable number of characters, cutting it down to about 40 characters. Some of the real life people were merged together into one character. Adding the SEALs in would have just added more characters to a script that already had far more main and supporting characters than 95% of Hollywood films. Bare in mind the average cinema-goer isn't going to know the difference between Delta, SEALs, Marines, Rangers etc. Keeping it to Delta and Rangers helped set up that the Rangers were the normal soldiers and the Delta guys were the more elite soldiers. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 15:38, 31 March 2014 (EDT)

== Not M68s? ==

An off hand comment I read on Facebook when plugging our site claimed that the Aimpoints on the Delta Rifles are not the M68s. Were there any optics that looked like these during the film's production or is this random guy blowing smoke? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:57, 14 March 2016 (EDT)
:Well, at the time of this film there would have been a range of sights from Aimpint in the COMP range that are pedantically not M68/COMPM2s. I don't really think that you could visually distinguish most of them though to the point where you could definitely say that a sight isn't a COMPM2. However there are a couple of individual sights in this that look a bit off, for example in this image you can see a whole collection of Aimpoints:[[File:BHDRem870-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]Sanderson's Aimpoint appears smaller than all the others so it may be a the compact version, the COMPC. Also, the Aimpoint on Gordon's 733 appears like it lacks the sloped section at the back of the front lens portion, which I think might mean it is an earlier model like the original COMP:[[File:BHDCommandoSuppressed-4.jpg|thumb|600px|none]]I'm just going by the screenshots though, other images might show these better. It's also possible that these are cheap knock-offs anyway rather than real Aimpoints. In the description it also states "In the film, most of the Model 727 carbines are anachronistically equipped with Aimpoint M68 CCO reflex sights (which was not standardized until 17 March 1995)", but I don't think that this statement can be true, as I believe that the M68 is specifically the COMPM2 version which didn't exist until 2000. Even if it refers to the original COMPM (the first militarised version which was accepted by the US Army) this wasn't release until 1997. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:35, 14 March 2016 (EDT)

Well according to Wikipedia, filming began in March 2001 and concluded in late June. So we have a time frame of when the filming took place so it is POSSIBLE that since the M68 was introduced in 2000, that the armorer could have gotten his hands of a few of them or replicas of them existed at the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:15, 14 March 2016 (EDT)

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2016-11-01T03:32:23Z

Cozmo: /* Weapon used by delta force */

__TOC__

=Additional Notes/Trivia=

==Interesting Uniform Note==
Just wanted to point out an interesting observation about the uniforms worn by the Rangers; this is one of the few films to accurately depict the transition from the 6-color "chocolate chip" camouflage made famous during Desert Storm to the 3-color "coffee stain" pattern that was used throughout the rest of the 1990's and during the invasion and early occupation of Iraq in the early 2000's. During the transition between these two camouflage patterns, it was common to see a combination of the two patterns on the same soldier; they would wear the new DCU's with the old 6-color on their PASGT helmets. Practically all the Rangers in the film have this combination.

[[Image:BHDMinimi-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|[[Tom Hardy]] wielding an FN Minimi as Spc. Twombly, giving us a good look at his 3-color DCU uniform and 6-color helmet cover]]

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

=Discussion=
== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

''"I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele"'' - Corrected the section as noted. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 13:56, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Hey, correctness is a virtue. Good on you for doing it. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 01:39, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Ah yes, I remember that passage. Thanks for the quote. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE'''''
:::::The M21 is the sniper version of the M14. So you're both right. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 23:32, 31 October 2016 (EDT)

:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

::::::Those of you who were saying he was denying the enemy are correct. You'll notice that he doesn't pocket the magazine. He tosses it away. He didn't field strip it because he likely didn't know how. So the easiest thing to do would be to unload it and throw the magazine away. I was in the military and we were trained to be observant and look for things that would compromise security (like unsecured enemy weapons). One thing you never do is use ammo you find lying around on the street, and in any case, M14Fanboy was right in that the calibers of the US weapons were totally incompatible with the Soviet rounds. Smashing the rifle would have taken time and energy that needed to be spent elsewhere. Besides, it's a rifle...not an airsoft gun. Have you ever tried to smash a real AK? There's a reason it's been in service for so many years... [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 01:52, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

::::: I believe it was because he was firing his M14 until it ran out of ammo, and then using a helo crew member's M16 before retreating to reload both rifles.:::

:::- Yes, that's the case. Gordon is also seen dropping his CAR-15 when it's empty and using his 1911. Later, when Shughart is killed, he fires the M14 'til it's empty, then switching to his 1911, and when that is empty, using an MP5 from the chopper. Hell, they're being overwhelmed, and it is quicker to pick up and and shoot another weapon that is ready than reload the present one. They were pretty much using whatever they could trying their damndest to fend an army off, I would think that was obvious. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

::::: Just to add to Stan's comment, I seem to recall hearing that at one point they even tried to use the crashed chopper's Miniguns. Not sure if this was true or not as the M134 requires electrical power to operate the weapon and I'm not sure what state the chopper's power system would be in following the crash. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] ([[User talk:Orca1 9904|talk]]) 16:15, 29 May 2016 (EDT)

:::::: The engines would need to be running to generate the power for the Miniguns. I believe that later helicopters (don't know if it was because of this incident specifically) have a battery backup for the Miniguns so that they could work if the engines and APU weren't running. They may have actually tried to operate them by hand cranking the barrel cluster. This is something that you might assume would work as the barrels, delinker and feeder are all connected together to the motor so if you turn one they all turn. The problem is though that it doesn't work and the guns will just jam up. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:09, 29 May 2016 (EDT)

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I did read Mike Durant's book and would like to point out he referred to Randy's weapon as a High-Tech rifle. as we all no, it was a vietnam era M14. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 21:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:I just stared reading Durant's "In the Company of Heroes" before he called it a "German piece of crap", he said the MP5 had shot fine at the range but he probably had neglected to clean it. It was after Shughart gave him Gordon's CAR-15 which didn't jam and was far more effective despite only having half a mag left he thought of the MP5 as a piece of shit. He also had an M9 that he never drew, which he said probably saved his life since he wasn't seen as a threat. While Shughart's M14 isn't really a "High-Tech rifle" it was a lot better than a bolt-gun in the situation he was in. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:52, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I was always under the assumption that it was taken to be put to rest with the rest of the body. Never leave a soldier behind.
That all said, i was always told by SF soldier i knew that they were trained to even go as far as to scoop up vomit they might have left to not leave behind any traces of themselves. -MissySummers-

The film (as everyone knows) took liberally from Mark Bowden's book. The film splits one incident ("the hand" and the "RPG in the chest") into two different scenes. According to Bowden's book (and the actual accounts of the Rangers) the hand belonged to SP4 Richard 'Alphabet' Kowalewski. It was blown off when an RPG hit him in the chest (while in the cab of a truck), but did not explode. PFC Clay Othic was in the truck when the RPG hit, but did not pick up Kowalewski's hand. It was SP4 Aaron Hand (ironic?) that "found the lower portion of Alphabet's arm on the street. All that remained intact was the hand. He picked it up and put it in his side pants pocket. He didn't know what else to do, and it didn't feel right leaving it behind." (quoted portion from Bowden's book "Black Hawk Down"). So, the film split the one incident into two scenes. The first scene of Othic picking up a hand, that in the film, could not have belonged to Kowalewski and the second (and later) scene of Kowalewski being hit and killed by the RPG rocket that did not explode. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 21:41, 19 October 2013 (EDT)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

'''Don't forget about the 10th Mountain and the U.N Soldiers. Whoever created this page missed them completly and they had alot of firearms. Whats omore is i can't for some reason edit the page. the autheor needs to fix this right away'''

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::I'm fairly certain this convo is referring to the later M4 with detachable carry handle. That's why I mentioned the 727 having an A2 upper. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:44, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

All gear that is used in the US Army has to be tested. Part of this testing cycle is to give it to SF, Rangers, Delta, etc. to field it before it is approved for widespread use. Considering the length of trials and the endless bureaucracy in the DoD, it is completely plausible that these guys had the first generation of the M4 in TFR/OGS. I saw a SCAR in the wild on my latest deployment to Afghanistan last year. These guys are like the pro athletes of the military world. All sorts of manufacturers will just give them gear to use in order to try to get them to reccomend it... Optics, armor, boots, gun accessories, etc...

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

::Which is funny, because when Griz is drawing in the barracks and Busch walks up behind him, he calls him "Griz." But not "all" Delta had their names changed. Norm Hooten was really there, but for the movie they combined him with John Macejunas. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:04, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

I read somewhere that Delta Operators are given an allowance to pay for their 1911 and any customisations they want done to it. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:59, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.
:Isn't GAU-17 an Air Force designation? When the weapon is in Army use isn't it still referred to as the M-134? --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 19:15, 2 February 2013 (EST)
::Yes, but it is the designation for a particular variant of the M134 which is what was used in the film. As far as I know there is no Army designation for this variant so I can only assume that they refer to it as the GAU-17/A. If not, using this term is still clearer than "M134 variant that would be the GAU-17/A if it was in the USAF". I'm guessing the term is universal, as the Navy use it for airborne mountings and refer to it as the GAUSE-17/A (with the SE standing for Shipboard Equipment) when it is mounted to the deck of a ship for point defence. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:42, 2 February 2013 (EST)
:::To weigh in on this again (first comment), I don't think the answer is "M134 variant that would be the GAU-17/A if it was in the USAF" nor is it "GAU-17." The answer is, it's a GE M134 with DA upgrades. The reason that is the answer, is that is what is stated in the film commentary, and that is what it is. The Minigun is an interesting weapon in that, as far as the US Army is concerned, the designation doesn't change, even though the weapon has, significantly. A stock GE Minigun, a PI GE Minigun with DA upgrades and a DA Minigun are all "M134" as far as the Army is concerned. The manufacturers' designations of M134D, M134D-T, M134D-H, M134G, M134GI etc are not recognized designations in the Army. Just because the weapon has a vented flash hider doesn't make it a GAU-17. The original DA flash hiders were vented anyway before they adopted a non-vented flash hider for their ground-up built Miniguns. --[[User:Gau17|Gau17]] ([[User talk:Gau17|talk]]) 15:25, 22 November 2013 (EST)

== Remington 870 Shotgun ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

As indicated on the main page and above (by an unknown poster), the Remington 870 Shotgun is seen being used by an extra/stuntman to breech a door right after being dropped by the Little Birds. The extra/stuntman IS NOT William Fichtner as evidenced by the images below - his individual equipment does not match that of Fichtner's. Further there are "on set" photographs showing at least one extra/stuntman equipped with the same type Remington 870 in addition to the one carried by Fichtner. The scene is from the "Black Hawk Down Extended Cut," NOT a "director's cut" (as the unknown person posted above). Ridley Scott has yet to do a "director's cut" of "Black Hawk Down," and I doubt he ever will due to his negative feelings about how the [[Alien]] and [[Blade Runner]] Director's Cuts turned out.
[[Image:BHD001.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown extra/stuntman preparing to fire a Remington 870. He also carries one of the rubber stunt prop M4 carbines that appear throughout the film in the hands of different extras, stuntmen, and actors. Note: there were no actual "firing" M4 carbines utilized in the film - only rubber stunt props of them.]]
[[Image:BHD002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown extra/stuntman firing a Remington 870.]]
Further, MSG (SFC in 1993) Paul Howe did indeed carry, and utilize, a CAR-15 (his was a Colt Model 653) with a 12-gage shotgun mounted on it (at least two photographs exist of him with the weapon prior to the operation). The term "Masterkey" is anachronistic as Knight's Armament came up with the term years later. At the time (1993) Ciener was the only company producing a shotgun mount for M16-series rifles and carbines. They simply called it an "under/over mount." [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 21:24, 19 October 2013 (EDT)

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v
:Not to mention a flashlight beam in that environment would scream, "here I am, shoot me!" [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

That's Jeremy Piven, nowadays best known for playing Ari Gold on HBO's Entourage. Wikipedia says he played CFO Clifton Wolcott.

:I do not think it Piven. In the film he plays a pilot role and his hair is black.
http://files.haiguinet.com/flashupload/UploadedFiles/1252005569_159Jeremy_Piven.jpg
http://emsworth.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jeremy-piven-in-black-hawk-down-2.jpg
When I put the photos on the page, before to name him "delta actor", I looked for the name of this guy in the entire cast. Unsuccessfully. I think it is a stunt.--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Definitely not Piven. Maybe he's a stand-in or something. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:06, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

::Flight gloves, as I just fucking explained, are not restrictive or obstructive in the slightest.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

:::- ''Uh, I had replied below I didn't know about these gloves specifically, which you seem to have failed to notice. Just as you also seem to have failed to notice that all these comments you posted this slightly irritable and unnecessary response in-between were all posted '''days ago'''. It might help if you thoroughly read the comments and check the dates next time.'' [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Flight gloves are a very thin layer of Nomex with a Clarino palm and finger overlaid. These are very light, wick sweat, and give you tactile feeling and the ability to perform tasks as though you were bare handed. They are maybe a few mm thick on the palms, and do not affect in any way your shooting ability or accuracy, even whilst firing an M249, which is notorious for running away due to gloves getting stuck and holding the trigger back.

:::I was in the Army for 9 years, and I wore flight gloves all the time during exercises. I never had a problem with them whatsoever. I was a SAW gunner as well. Whoever posted that caption about trained operators not wearing gloves is an idiot. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:14, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

==Discussion about the bullets, or something==
- Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Geneva convention forbids hollow point ammo in the military. The Police of the nation is a different subject. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:You're thinking of the Hague Convention of 1899, not the Geneva Convention.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was the GC or HC and didn't really care to look it up at the moment.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Hague banned all use of ammunition that easily expands or flattens in a human target. I have no exact idea of what round is being used or how it gets around the HC, I only know that when asked about the effectiveness of 5.56 ammunition, a few SF guys made mention that have been issued a new "expanding" round. I have also heard that Marines are now being issued an expanding type round. It may be that since we are not actually fighting an official "military force" that the HC and GC do not apply. Also you must remember that the use of .50 cal against personnel is banned too, how often do you think that is observed?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not saying we follow either conventions to a T in every war, I'm just echoing what I heard from a man who was there. A lot of people who lived through the battle of mogadishu came away with the feeling that Bill Clinton cared more about how headlines would look than he did about the safety of our soldiers. As for HC and GC not applying, I agree that they really don't apply to A) organizations that are not militaries but instead ragtag terrorist groups and B) hail from nations that didn't exist at the time of the convention and never signed a similar document. It's the same argument that was applied for the waterboarding of captured terrorists; apparently, they apply some standards to those who didn't sign, but not others. Personally, I think that terrorist groups and undeveloped countries where they never signed the conventions shouldn't get the protection of them, and we really need to invest into expanding ammunitions for everyone; AP doesn't make sense for unarmored targets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The question about observing the laws was rhetorical in nature. But I agree wholeheartedly about what you say pertaining to the HC and GC applying to people who did not sign it. Its like bringing pirates and terrorists into the US to give them civilian trials. People say they should get military trials... When according to the GC (that people are so happy to apply to the situation) pirates and terrorists are not able to receive either. We selectively apply laws to make us look good internationally, when in reality it costs money, and even worse lives of US citizens and military forces.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 12:36, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances full metal jacket .556 is an ideal round. When fighting a traditional battle, against an enemy that follows the rules of war, it is far better to wound the enemy than kill him. Gunner313

We haven't fought a conventional war that lasted any period of time since Korea (and you could even say WWII, since Korea was less than conventional). Also with the way the enemy works now, any intel we can gather from enemy combatants will likely be useless (if it ever was useful) by the time it gets to the guys on the ground. Also as stated by me, and others before, under 50 yards and especially against an enemy that is drugged up a FMJ is likely not going to down an enemy either by wounding him or killing him. Of course shot placement comes into play heavily, but as cases have proven a COM shot is likely not to drop a determined attacker immediately. Head and extremity shots are also very hard to make, with FMJ pretty much the only way to immediately and most important reliably drop an attacker at close range is a pelvic shot. But now days in Afghanistan most fighting is taking place on the far end if not beyond the 5.56's effective range. Also Gunner313 it is 5.56, not .556, .556mm is a really damn small projectile haha. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 14:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

One could say that the First Gulf War was conventional. we were fighting an organized military(Iraq), i still think they were a bunch of crazy towel heads hellbent on destroying the western world.[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Why is it better to wound them? -SasquatchJim.

Because then you can detain them get information from them.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. I apologize; I thought he meant that wounding them was more humane, or something. Although, dead people can't keep shooting at you; wounded ones can. -SasquatchJim

It is better to wound them because it requires the enemy to care for their wounded, they have to be treated, they have to be transported, it is demoralizing to the others to hear someone in terrible pain, so for a short time a wounding shot, takes two people out of the fight. Also the more medical supplies that have to be shipped to the front for the wounded, means less of other items such as ammo, food, fuel, misc... Gunner313

Makes sense to me. Thanks. -SJ

Well in my opinion, I still think it's better to kill the enemy rather than just wound them, that way they don't get patched up and come back later to kill you.

agreed. especially in Somalia when if their not dead their gunna come back and shoot you in the back. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:- Bah, can't believe my one off-hand comment spawned all this. Heh. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing to add other than that this was really informative. This site is one of the best blind discoveries I've made on the internet. --[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] 01:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Never Forget==
Sorry to post as anon, but I dont have an account but frequent the site. Just wanted to point out that today is the 17th anniversary of the US intervention in Somalia.

:- Actually the anniversary is for the mission and subsequent battle portrayed in the film. The 'intervention' began as Operation Provide Relief, which started in December 1992. Still, good to point it out. EDIT - I actually just realized that not only is it the anniversary, but the actual day is correct (That is, Oct. 3 was a Sunday, same day as the Oct. 3 in the battle). Again, pretty cool I guess. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The entire day yesterday i thought about it. i decided to watch the movie being Sunday Oct-3. i also found it fit to say a pray for the brave soldiers who lost their lives fighting to help the ungratefull bastards. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun ==

What gun have Mo'alim in his shoulder? He don't remove it from the shoulder at any time, but there are two scenes where you can see:

1 When prevents the killing of Duran:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/

2 When the cannon is firing in the area of the first downed helicopter:
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/

are you referring to the AK-74u? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:37, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I think he is referring to the pistol in his shoulder holster under his left arm. Can't make it out though, will have to have a look on my Bluray version when I get a minute, but don't think it can be seen well enough to make it out. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 10:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

i wasn't aware he had a shoulder holster? can you upload a photo?[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it is a revolver or a pistol:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/
i couldnt see anything on the 2nd picture but the first was definetly a revolver. my guess, and im not expert with revolvers would be a .38 or 357 perhaps a S&W? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== Doc Schmid ==
In the movie PFC Kurt "Doc" Schmid is shown as a Ranger medic but in reality he was Delta Force. It's curious why they chose to depict him as a Ranger and not a Delta operator in the movie.

Maybe they forgot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is somewhat unrelated, but I found it really funny that Schmid is played by the same actor who later played [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185836/ Adam]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

''"In the movie PFC Kurt "Doc" Schmid is shown as a Ranger medic but in reality he was Delta Force"'' - Added this information to the front page. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 13:58, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

==tapeing==
i was just watching this , and i noticed that a majority of the rangers taped the ends of the butt stocks on their rifles . Why is that?-[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]
:I believe that tape was used (not quite sure how) to attach the sling to the butt of the rifle. Tape is also used at the front of the rifle, to attach a loop of para cord around the front sight to the sling. The reason this was done was so that the sling would be attached on the top/side of the weapon, rather than the bottom (where the only fitted sling loops are) to make it more usable in combat. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:25, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

i noticed nearly all the mag's have brown tape on them, any reasons for this, or is it just purely cosmetic? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:32, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

STANAG Magazines are smooth and can be hard to grip on to to reload, especially in a high stress situation like combat. The tape helps you to grip the magazine for a speedy reload, MAGPUL makes sleeves that slide over them now. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 3:31, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Nelson's M60 ==

Is is correct to have Nelson carrying the Vietnam Era M60 over the M60E3 or E4? I'm not sure when the E3 or E4 came out.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 03:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

:The M60 used in the film is an original spec M60, the same as were actually used by the Rangers in Somalia (As identified by the hand guard and bi-pod attaching at the end of the barrel). Not sure exactly when the E3 was made (started being issues in 1986), but I know there was one in the 1985 film [[Commando]]. Regardless, I don't think it was that widely used, as the lighter weight barrel and other parts made the gun more prone to overheating and malfunction. The rangers actually used a mix of M60s and FN MAGs as shown below:
:[[Image:101120ritchie20pursley8yp.jpg|thumb|500px|none]]

::''"Is is correct to have Nelson carrying the Vietnam Era M60 over the M60E3 or E4"'' - Yes, because the United States Army never adopted the M60E3 - the United States Navy and Marines Corps however did. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

:Also, there has been talk on this page about what the actual weapons used by Delta where, and I cannot speak to this operation in particular, but in most of the photos I have seen of Delta force in Somalia, there are actually armed with M16A2s, normally with a telescopic sight mounted onto the carry handle (example below). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/9607/21820burns20weaver6az.jpg

::The photograph linked above DOES NOT depict Delta operators, they are Rangers. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

::Delta operators in Somalia used Colt Model 723 carbines with M4 style barrel, at least watching the few pictures of that time. --[[User:Pz.Abt.100|X-Ray Bravo 6]] 13:54, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

::: The Model 723s utilized by Delta operators, during Operation Gothic Serpent, DID NOT have the ''"M4 style barrel"'' - they had the standard barrel. Further they utilized Model 653s along with the Model 723s and Model 727s. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

:::Did the Rangers at the time use a black ballistic vest in addition to the woodland RBAs? While searching for M60 photos saw several photos of people in black vests carrying M16A2s with an optic on the handle, also sometimes carrying shotguns and LAWs. Are these likely Rangers rather than Delta then? Also, there are pictures of rangers using colt carbines with the step down M4 type barrels, so I think there was a much wider variety of weapons used than the film shows. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
::::The Rangers only wore Woodland camo RBA (Ranger Body Armor) vests and desert-camo PASGT helmets during the operation (see the "Interesting Uniform Note" section above for info about the desert camo patterns used in the film). Black vests were Delta-issue only. Sort of like present-day spec. ops units using Dragon Skin vests while the main Army uses Interceptor/IOTV vests (though it's not as easy to tell the difference between the modern-day examples by looking at them. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

In the book there was specific mention of a couple of the Rangers being stuck with the Delta "Turtle" Armor because they didn't have enough of the Ranger vests for a while.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 09:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks, that explains photos like the following one then (also, note the Colt carbines with M4 type barrels the Rangers are carrying.)
:[[Image:RangersM4.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

:Also, can anyone shed some light as to what is going on with this SAW:
:[[Image:Saw.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
:First off, isn't this an E2, rather than the E1 as the main article says was used by the Rangers? Also, why does it look like the receiver is made of different metal, and is the sight mount a standard fitting, or something cobbled together? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 00:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Another thing the book mentions is that Delta's Armorer played gunsmith for some of the Ranger guys (at least 1 customized SAW is mentioned).-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

that part of the book is referring to Spc. Waddell's SAW and i believe is was a grip that was put on. i would also like to shed some light on the fact that in 1993 only the Armys Special Ops like Delta Force had that kind of ability on their weapons, and now every soldier on the battlefield has the ability to put on optics, lights, lasers, and stocks. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:22, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes that is the part I was referring to, although I remember there being more than just a grip added, but its been a while. Also Rangers aren't basic infantry, they too are a part of USASOC. and in a combat zone leeway with weapons (also uniforms, gear, etc) is pretty much at the command's discretion. I believe that they would allow Rangers a bit of leeway with modifying their weapons in certain ways to enhance their effectiveness in a given environment. Spc. Waddell's SAW grip would have been noticed by his command at some point, and either him or the Delta armorer would have had to get permission to modify it, being that it is US Gov property (not to mention the other customized weapons we see in Ranger's hands in photos).-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 04:31, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Just noticing. Why do some people call it an "M4" type barrel? I mean it's a rifle in service before the M4 came out, so shouldn't it NOT be called an M4 barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:48, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

You got me on that one... Probably because most people know the "M203 Step" Barrel as an M4 feature, so it gets genericised as an "M4 Profile Barrel".-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:53, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I mean didn't they have the step down barrel before the M4 came about? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe so, but it would have only been within a couple years of the M4s debut (the Colt 727 comes to mind). Another reason would be marketing, people will pay more for a milspec carbine that has the "M203 step barrel" so companies market the rifles as having "M4 profile barrels".-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:41, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Is this the only film to have someone shooting an M16 on burst-fire mode? ==

I would kinda doubt it, but it's the only time I've ever seen it. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 06:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

You referring to when Daniel Busch is sliding out from under the Walcott bird? That's the only time I remember. [[User:Thursday|Thursday]] 07:51, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

He's referring to a point where one of the Rangers kills an approaching Somali with a three round burst from his M-16A2. Sgt. Busch is using an M727 and fires quick single shots to kill the miltia approaching the Blackhawk. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 08:16, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, can remember any burst stuff, I'll re-watch it after work. And I'm very aware Busch had a 727. I wonder why Gary Gordons rifle wasn't on burst in the movie, it was in real life. [[User:Thursday|Thursday]] 15:29, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

They're referring to the part near the end when the rangers are running out of the city and one of them guns down a woman who picks up a rifle. As for burst mode: most likely the M16 in question was a full auto weapon (as virtually all of them in Hollywood are) and the actor simply fired a couple of short bursts (possibly with some editing done by the sound and special effects teams) to make in appear as though he was using burst mode.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 17:39, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

== RPG Shooting ==

I was just looking through the section regarding the RPGs, and noticed something peculiar. Look at the shooter in the first picture. Now look at the guy in the second. Now back at the first. Is it just me, or are the two guys shooting down the two different helicopters from two different places actually the ''exact same guy''? Notice the matching folds in their clothing, and the cloth wrapped around their heads, and their silhouettes. They're all identical. Anyone else see what I'm seeing? [[User:August.allocco|August.allocco]] 18:20, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

== M16A2 ==

I think The M16A2's in the film are actual real ones. the lower reciever is that of an actual A2, and they fire in two modes only, Semi and 3 round burst.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

==Question==

Why was Gordon's 727 suppressed? In the book, it says that he was providing sniper cover from the air until he landed to defend the downed Black Hawk, but wouldn't it make more sense to fire unsuppressed. I mean, why would he worry about making too much noise when theres a battle going on? And wouldn't this decrease the muzzle velocity, surely that would make sniping from the air much harder.

: Might have been a flash suppressor. But it might also be Hollywood getting mixed in there. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 15:38, 1 December 2015 (EST)
:: Bah, it's plainly a sound suppressor (or 'silencer' as some would call it) on Gordon's M733, not just a flash hider (though proper sound suppressors still suppress muzzle flash as well). That said, the 733 is a considerably short-barreled weapon normally and the suppressor would give some extra length aiding in accuracy, though it would be at the cost of some muzzle velocity (which would probably be mostly negligible in the environment/ranges he's operating at). The more bluntly obvious explanation is that it's a film that takes a few liberties and obviously doesn't follow the book to the letter for any number of reasons. Finally, I doubt any of this matters to the (unsigned) user who originally asked this and who also seemingly hasn't been on the site since making said inquiry - more than 4 years ago now. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 01:48, 2 December 2015 (EST)

==M16A2s==
[[Image:BHDM16A2-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]
It seems that all of the so-called "M16A2s" have forward assists and are probably M16A1s with M16A2 handguards or mocked up to resemble an M16A2. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 10:16, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

Not to sound disrespectful but what the hell are you talking about? The M16 in that screenshot clearly has the A2 sights and the A2s have forward assists as well. They are not A1s with A2 handguards because of the A2 sights. They could possibly have A1 lowers to make them fully automatic as opposed to firing 3 round bursts like the A2 does. But externally they are definitely an M16A2. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 11:03, 15 October 2011 (CDT)
:Makes sense as MPM2008's images of the M16A2 are M16A2s with A1 lower receivers as one user pointed out, which caused some confusion for me when I started learning about the M16A2. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 14:55, 15 October 2011 (CDT)
:: The point is those could actually be real deal M16A2s as they fire semi auto in every shot apart from at the end where one Ranger fires what looks like a 3 round burst anyway. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:40, 16 October 2011 (CDT)
Firstly M16A2s have forward assists, so there is no reason that having the FA would make it an A1. Secondly, the guns have brass deflectors (triangular protrusion behind the ejection port) which A2s have and A1s don't. Thirdly these guns have the more complicated adjustable rear sights of A2s. The guns in this film do use M16A1 pattern lower receivers, as noted by the lack of reinforcement around the takedown pins, but I don't think they are actually Colt lowers as the M16A1 type lowers didn't have the fire selector markings stamped on the right side of the gun. Also, MPM2008's image of an M16A2 is correct, it is the M16A1 images which have the wrong lower receiver (not a standard Colt lower as it has the front reinforcement of an A2, but like the A1 lacks the rear reinforcement and right side fire selector stampings). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:07, 16 October 2011 (CDT)
::Hold on. Upon seeing this picture, I started wondering why some of the Army or Special Forces personnel will have their rifle stock and or end of magazine taped with different colours? Is it just a habit or to serve other purposes?
:::The tape on the magazine is to make it easier to grip, since STANAG magazines are fairly smooth; I guess it's the same theory with the stock. Tape can also be used to mark magazines for easier recognition of special loads (say, a tracer-heavy magazine for marking targets). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:29, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
::::I think the tape on the stock is actually something to do with the way the sling is attached on to the rifle. They don't seem to be using the sling loop at the bottom of the stock, instead I think it is just attached to paracord wrapped around the stock and held in place with the tape. The main reasons I have seen for wrapping tape around the bottom of a magazine was to hold a loop of paracord in place to make it easier to get the magazine out of a webbing pouch (the pre Magpul solution) or for marking magazine loads as Evil Tim said. This is not the case here so I suppose it must be for grip, but seems odd that the tape is around the middle of the magazine rather than the bottom, where the the magazine would be held to get it out of a pouch. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:52, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
:::::Sorry, but when do they fire the guns on full auto? I saw the movie not too long ago and i only saw them fireing on semi and 3 round burst. I never saw a full auto one. --[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]
::::::Right towards the end of the film one of the Rangers fires two quick bursts. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:51, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I'm just watching the movie to look out for burst/auto, but jsut noticed something else. Can't screencap blurays, but at 50 minuted in as Eversmann is watching the first blackhawk go down you see the butt of his rifle, showing that it is from an A1 rifle. Also, at 40:30 when Hoot is pushing gown the heads of the prisoners as they are captured, the Delta behind him has a CAR-15 with 10" barrel, no forward assist or brass deflector, and possibly a partial fence lower (out of focus and hard to tell), making it an XM177, also called GAU-5/A. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:22, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
:::::::: ok, but Cool-breeze, you just said he fired two quick BURSTS. Not a full auto drag. I just rewatched that scene and he fired two quick THREE round bursts.--[[UserGunner5|Gunner5]]
:::::::::Yeah but the likelihood that it is an M16A2 with an A2 lower is very remote as pretty much every motion picture M16A2 I've seen fires full auto at some point. The only way to find out if it has a burst lower is if there is a decent screen grab so we can read the markings on the receiver. I think Black Hawk Down is the only film I've seen an A2 not firing full auto if it's not firing on semi. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 19:46, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::The guy fires 2 bursts, the second of which sound like it might have been 4, but it is off-screen so that proves nothing. These rifles have A1 lowers which would suggest that they are full auto. However in the screencap above, the third position (although hard to read) looks more like burst than auto. Swinging it back the other way though, A1 receivers shouldn't have selector markings on this side, so it is either a non Colt lower so could be burst or auto, or it has been engraved by the armourer to replicate an A2 so wouldn't necessarily be correct. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:00, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

can anyone tell me why the buttstocks are taped?-2ndCommandos

== M249/FN Minimi ==

This page lists Twombly's (and others') weapon as an FN Minimi standing in for an M249-E1.

However, the weapon in the movie clearly has U.S. M249-style rear sights, which was the main differentiator from the FN design it was based on.

I believe that the weapon is really a M249 (first edition, before the E1), not a FN Minimi.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_Down#FN_Minimi

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/FN_Minimi#FN_Minimi

:Problem is, from looking things up more recent Minimis have started using the SAW rear sight. Wikipedia's article on the Minimi has pictures of Swedish and Australian soldiers with SAW-rear-sight Minimis. IMO, these are more likely to be Minimis with new top covers than 1980s-vintage unimproved SAWs. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:07, 25 December 2011 (CST)

==Issue with some of the recent edits==

While I like how some parts are more detailed and some sections split/modified, I have a bit of an issue with the descriptions forcefully stating how actors and stuntmen are ''portraying'' the operators and soldiers. It seems a bit much, not to mention redundant - though based on an actual event, it is still a movie, and I would think it's generally assumed the actors are of course actors and stunt performers and ''aren't'' any of the actual operators/soldiers - to deliberately 'state' so seems kind of rich and perhaps a bit improper. In the case of the actors and their characters, we go by how they're credited, not who they are 'portraying' since its not always the same (the portrayals can be noted, but the actual credit shouldn't be ignored/removed) - if there are exceptions to this (such as the pilot) they are also noted but I thought it was pretty much common knowledge about how these are still actors, and that they may may 'portraying' certain individuals that don't match their credited role and that that doesn't need to be unduly, possibly negatively emphasized. What's more, I'm not sure omission of some information and even some additions are in the page's best interest (An edit by someone stating that they did away with 'some nonsense' is a bit harsh and frankly may not be said person's call) - There were some quotes or notations that were removed when there seemed to be no need to do so. Also the use of word 'allegedly' also seems a bit improper and unnecessary as well, especially in spots.

Generally it seems these edits don't keep a fully impartial and encyclopedic viewpoint, which is what I take issue with. Bottom line as I understand it, the site is foremost about documenting the movie's firearms and any information or notations relevant to that or in furtherance of that - the site is not here to make corrections about any and all factual errors regarding the events portrayed in this film, or indeed in any film, except again perhaps in regards to the firearms. It's also not about playing with semantics either. Any errors or such about the film that may or (generally) may not apply to the weapons should, for the most part, be kept on the discussion page. At least that is how I understand it. That said, any other significant edits being made should also be noted in the discussion before being made. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 16:23, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

: You're 100% correct. I'm going to undo the edits. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 16:30, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::There's no need to undo everything, just bring everything in line with our style. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:39, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
:::Will do.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 16:47, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::Am I the only person who wishes that Delta soldiers weren't called "operators"? It just sounds so corny in a bad, mall-ninja way. Not calling Delta mall-ninjas, but they ''really'' need a less cheesy name. It's not like "commando" was already taken.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 16:54, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::You can leave in the gun stuff, like the tidbit about the tape around the magazines, which is pretty interesting. "Commando" IS taken, is it not? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:58, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::: US doesn't have any "Commando" units. I'll put the tape bit back.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 17:05, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::::No, but when I read "commando," I think of the Brits first. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 17:13, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::::As well you should :) --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:20, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::::::See? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 17:39, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
: I think the term operator is alright.. it is proper nomenclature, isn't it? Otherwise looks alright.. I didn't mind things like the NSN for the carbine and all that, but that's only 'cause I'm into military-technical crap like that. :P Plus it has little to do with the movie weapons I suppose. Frankly I think the page was fine before the edits - I don't see why the other stuff couldn't have just been added on. Basically I have no problem with addition of anything relevant, but pejorative-sounding words and phrases and removal of possibly relevant info I take issue with. That said, I kinda liked the grouping of the Colt 727 and 733 and I liked that layout - sure it wasn't standard but it was a nice little specific feature of this film page which I liked a lot, but that's just me I guess.. The old notations in the 733 section about the ones with the XM177 muzzle moderator and Gordon's rifle with the suppressor and the like should probably be put back also since otherwise it would appear different weapons are grouped into the same entry. I could patch 'em up if you guys want, either way. Thanks fellas. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 17:37, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::The term Operator applies to members of Delta who have passed the Operator's Training Course and is also used to seperate the door-kickers from the support guys in the unit. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]])

== Why no SEALs in the movie? ==

Anyone happen to know why aren't the four DEVGRU operators in the movie? I know this is not a documentary but still. Was the ST6 involvement classified back in 2001? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 02:56, 31 March 2014 (EDT)
: The SEALs were mentioned in the 1999 book the movie is based on, guess the director figured that they already had a bunch of Delta, Rangers, and 160th guys to work with and four guy from a different unit weren't worth adding. And it's not like they'd be all that different from Delta in the end anyway. Just four guys in a slightly different uniform.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 14:55, 31 March 2014 (EDT)
:: I remember reading something written about when they were writing the script they already had to compress about 150 people into a more managable number of characters, cutting it down to about 40 characters. Some of the real life people were merged together into one character. Adding the SEALs in would have just added more characters to a script that already had far more main and supporting characters than 95% of Hollywood films. Bare in mind the average cinema-goer isn't going to know the difference between Delta, SEALs, Marines, Rangers etc. Keeping it to Delta and Rangers helped set up that the Rangers were the normal soldiers and the Delta guys were the more elite soldiers. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 15:38, 31 March 2014 (EDT)

== Not M68s? ==

An off hand comment I read on Facebook when plugging our site claimed that the Aimpoints on the Delta Rifles are not the M68s. Were there any optics that looked like these during the film's production or is this random guy blowing smoke? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:57, 14 March 2016 (EDT)
:Well, at the time of this film there would have been a range of sights from Aimpint in the COMP range that are pedantically not M68/COMPM2s. I don't really think that you could visually distinguish most of them though to the point where you could definitely say that a sight isn't a COMPM2. However there are a couple of individual sights in this that look a bit off, for example in this image you can see a whole collection of Aimpoints:[[File:BHDRem870-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]Sanderson's Aimpoint appears smaller than all the others so it may be a the compact version, the COMPC. Also, the Aimpoint on Gordon's 733 appears like it lacks the sloped section at the back of the front lens portion, which I think might mean it is an earlier model like the original COMP:[[File:BHDCommandoSuppressed-4.jpg|thumb|600px|none]]I'm just going by the screenshots though, other images might show these better. It's also possible that these are cheap knock-offs anyway rather than real Aimpoints. In the description it also states "In the film, most of the Model 727 carbines are anachronistically equipped with Aimpoint M68 CCO reflex sights (which was not standardized until 17 March 1995)", but I don't think that this statement can be true, as I believe that the M68 is specifically the COMPM2 version which didn't exist until 2000. Even if it refers to the original COMPM (the first militarised version which was accepted by the US Army) this wasn't release until 1997. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:35, 14 March 2016 (EDT)

Well according to Wikipedia, filming began in March 2001 and concluded in late June. So we have a time frame of when the filming took place so it is POSSIBLE that since the M68 was introduced in 2000, that the armorer could have gotten his hands of a few of them or replicas of them existed at the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:15, 14 March 2016 (EDT)

Talk:Stranger Things - Season 1

2016-10-10T15:20:49Z

Cozmo: /* Will's Rifle */

The image is a bit blurry but the S&W revolver looks to have a shrouded lug which would make it a Model 66. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 16:03, 14 August 2016 (EDT)

:Thanks, I was going off an even worse picture when I was trying to ID it and thought there wasn't a shroud..--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 18:39, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
::Does anyone have an ID for Will's .22 bolt action seen in the 1st episode? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 16:56, 24 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I couldn't ID it. I believe that and the revolver Jonathan takes are the last two we need to ID.--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:24, 29 August 2016 (EDT)
::::I think Jon's revolver is a S&W Model 10. That's what I recall thinking when I first saw this show, but I haven't seen it in weeks so I'm not 100% sure. I do remember him asking a sporting good clerk for .38 ammo, so there's something. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 12:55, 29 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::It is a Model 10. I've added it to the page along with a few screen-caps. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 11:59, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

::I've made a note that the MP5K PDW should not exist since this show takes place in 1983 and some had UMP style stocks [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:03, 29 August 2016 (EDT)

:::Were they all UMP-style stocks? I can't remember seeing an older MP5K-PDW stock.--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 16:57, 26 September 2016 (EDT)
::::I think I saw SOME with the actual PDW stocks, but even those are still anachronistic. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:59, 27 September 2016 (EDT)

I need to double check Indiana gun laws back then, because let's assume these kids are under 18 or even if they are, gun stores in Indiana cannot sell handgun ammo to people under 21, the legal age to purchase a handgun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:19, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

====Will's Rifle====
Got it! It's an old Mossberg 144LS. Took a couple of screen caps and a few hour's search on Gunbroker.com and the Googles, and voila. I'm creating a page for it right now so we can link it. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 20:45, 8 October 2016 (EDT)

:That's a great find, but still doesn't seem to be quite right (note the black forend tip on Will's rifle).--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:50, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, you're right. This is a tough one. As I look at it again, the barrel doesn't look very long...like it's a youth rifle or something. I've scoured gun blogs, history sites, and auction sites, and this one continues to elude. I'll keep looking. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 11:20, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

Stranger Things - Season 1

Talk:Stranger Things - Season 1

2016-10-09T00:45:07Z

Cozmo:

The image is a bit blurry but the S&W revolver looks to have a shrouded lug which would make it a Model 66. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 16:03, 14 August 2016 (EDT)

:Thanks, I was going off an even worse picture when I was trying to ID it and thought there wasn't a shroud..--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 18:39, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
::Does anyone have an ID for Will's .22 bolt action seen in the 1st episode? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 16:56, 24 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I couldn't ID it. I believe that and the revolver Jonathan takes are the last two we need to ID.--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:24, 29 August 2016 (EDT)
::::I think Jon's revolver is a S&W Model 10. That's what I recall thinking when I first saw this show, but I haven't seen it in weeks so I'm not 100% sure. I do remember him asking a sporting good clerk for .38 ammo, so there's something. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 12:55, 29 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::It is a Model 10. I've added it to the page along with a few screen-caps. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 11:59, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

::I've made a note that the MP5K PDW should not exist since this show takes place in 1983 and some had UMP style stocks [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:03, 29 August 2016 (EDT)

:::Were they all UMP-style stocks? I can't remember seeing an older MP5K-PDW stock.--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 16:57, 26 September 2016 (EDT)
::::I think I saw SOME with the actual PDW stocks, but even those are still anachronistic. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:59, 27 September 2016 (EDT)

I need to double check Indiana gun laws back then, because let's assume these kids are under 18 or even if they are, gun stores in Indiana cannot sell handgun ammo to people under 21, the legal age to purchase a handgun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:19, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

====Will's Rifle====
Got it! It's an old Mossberg 144LS. Took a couple of screen caps and about an hour's search on Gunbroker.com, and voila. I'm creating a page for it right now so we can link it. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 20:45, 8 October 2016 (EDT)

2016-09-13T17:52:38Z

Cozmo: Created page with "__TOC__ ==Hiya.== Cozmo here. I'm 38, from Minneapolis, and been a long-time firearms aficionado. I worked in a gun shop when I was in my early 20s. Joined t..."

__TOC__ 

==Hiya.==
Cozmo here. I'm 38, from Minneapolis, and been a long-time firearms aficionado. I worked in a gun shop when I was in my early 20s. Joined the Army when I was 17, and spent 9 years in the Army Reserve and National Guard as an armorer, so I serviced every weapon from the M9 pistol to the big 25mm Bushmaster guns on Bradley IFVs. I've owned a number of firearms, but right now I just have a shotgun. Hoping to pick up a handgun or two at some point before I die.

===Favourites===
Here's a short list:

====Movies====
Star Wars (all of 'em...there are even some cool things about the prequels)
Lord of the Rings
James Bond Series (especially the ones with Daniel Craig, whom I feel is the best and most believable Bond)
Django Unchained
The Mexican
The Sting
The Big Lebowski
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou
The Darjeeling Limited
Unforgiven
Rio Bravo
The Outlaw Josey Wales
The X-Men trilogy
Saving Private Ryan
The Thin Red Line
Lethal Weapon series
Die Hard series
The Matrix series
Star Trek (Reboots and some of the originals)

====TV====
Lost
Arrested Development
The IT Crowd
Stranger Things
Band of Brothers
The Walking Dead
The Office (UK)
Extras
Ken Burns' "The War"
Archer
Firefly
Long Way Round/Long Way Down

====Video Games====
Red Dead Redemption
Halo franchise
Mafia II
Mass Effect franchise
Assassin's Creed
Fallout
Red Orchestra
Farcry
GTA: Vice City
GTA: San Andreas
Just Cause
Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault (yeah, it was buggy, but I liked the story and characters, and the weapons were well done)

I'm not really a fan of the Call of Duty games. I'm sure the multiplayer is awesome, but I never liked the campaigns. They're just too over-the-top.

====Firearms====
I've owned a 9mm Beretta M92FS Police Special (same as a regular M92FS, but with a special "PS/shield" stamp on the slide), an old pinned-barrel Smith & Wesson Model 10 in chrome, a Czech CZ-50 in 7.65mm, an M1 Garand, and the sawn-off Marlin Goose Gun that I have now. Eventually I'd like to acquire a few more, but funds are the thing holding me back from that. My wishlist includes a Colt Detective Special, HK Mk23, PPK, M1911A1 (old-school...Kimbers are fine, but not for me), and a S&W M19 or M66.

===Other===
I'm big into motorcycles. I have three 70s Kawasakis, a Kz200, a Kz400, and a Kz650. My first bike was a Honda CX500, and on my dream list are a BMW R65, a Royal Enfield, and an Allstate Puch 250.

I also play music. I currently have a Fender Jazzmaster, an Ovation Viper solid body, a Framus bass, and an old Decca hollow body guitar. My amps are a Peavey Classic 50 and a Vox Pathfinder 15R.

I'm just getting into cosplay. My teenagers are into it, and they invited me to attend a local anime/sci-fi convention, so I went as Rick Grimes from The Walking Dead. My daughter went as Carl. It was pretty cool.

That's all for now. I'll update this periodically as things change.

User talk:Cozmo

2016-09-13T17:52:28Z

Cozmo: Blanked the page

Talk:Stranger Things - Season 1

2016-09-12T15:59:54Z

Cozmo:

User talk:Cozmo

2016-09-12T15:56:17Z

__TOC__ 

==Hiya.==
Cozmo here. I'm 38, from Minneapolis, and been a long-time firearms aficionado. I worked in a gun shop when I was in my early 20s. Joined the Army when I was 17, and spent 9 years in the Army Reserve and National Guard as an armorer, so I serviced every weapon from the M9 pistol to the big 25mm Bushmaster guns on Bradley IFVs. I've owned a number of firearms, but right now I just have a shotgun. Hoping to pick up a handgun or two at some point before I die.

===Favourites===
Here's a short list:

====Movies====
Star Wars (all of 'em...there are even some cool things about the prequels)
Lord of the Rings
James Bond Series (especially the ones with Daniel Craig, whom I feel is the best and most believable Bond)
Django Unchained
The Mexican
The Sting
The Big Lebowski
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou
The Darjeeling Limited
Unforgiven
Rio Bravo
The Outlaw Josey Wales
The X-Men trilogy
Saving Private Ryan
The Thin Red Line
Lethal Weapon series
Die Hard series
The Matrix series
Star Trek (Reboots and some of the originals)

====TV====
Lost
Arrested Development
The IT Crowd
Stranger Things
Band of Brothers
The Walking Dead
The Office (UK)
Extras
Ken Burns' "The War"
Archer
Firefly
Long Way Round/Long Way Down

====Video Games====
Red Dead Redemption
Halo franchise
Mafia II
Mass Effect franchise
Assassin's Creed
Fallout
Red Orchestra
Farcry
GTA: Vice City
GTA: San Andreas
Just Cause
Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault (yeah, it was buggy, but I liked the story and characters, and the weapons were well done)

I'm not really a fan of the Call of Duty games. I'm sure the multiplayer is awesome, but I never liked the campaigns. They're just too over-the-top.

====Firearms====
I've owned a 9mm Beretta M92FS Police Special (same as a regular M92FS, but with a special "PS/shield" stamp on the slide), an old pinned-barrel Smith & Wesson Model 10 in chrome, a Czech CZ-50 in 7.65mm, an M1 Garand, and the sawn-off Marlin Goose Gun that I have now. Eventually I'd like to acquire a few more, but funds are the thing holding me back from that. My wishlist includes a Colt Detective Special, HK Mk23, PPK, M1911A1 (old-school...Kimbers are fine, but not for me), and a S&W M19 or M66.

===Other===
I'm big into motorcycles. I have three 70s Kawasakis, a Kz200, a Kz400, and a Kz650. My first bike was a Honda CX500, and on my dream list are a BMW R65, a Royal Enfield, and an Allstate Puch 250.

I also play music. I currently have a Fender Jazzmaster, an Ovation Viper solid body, a Framus bass, and an old Decca hollow body guitar. My amps are a Peavey Classic 50 and a Vox Pathfinder 15R.

I'm just getting into cosplay. My teenagers are into it, and they invited me to attend a local anime/sci-fi convention, so I went as Rick Grimes from The Walking Dead. My daughter went as Carl. It was pretty cool.

That's all for now. I'll update this periodically as things change.

Stranger Things - Season 1

2016-09-12T15:21:25Z

Cozmo: /* Handguns */

{{WIP}}

{{Infobox TV|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Stranger Things - Season 1
|picture = StrangerThingsSeason1.jpg
|country = [[File:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|channel = [[Netflix]]
|genre = [[:Category:Science-Fiction|Science-Fiction]] [[:Category:Horror|Horror]]
|creator = Matt Duffer Ross Duffer
|dates = 2016
|language = English
|episodes = 8
|actor1=[[Winona Ryder]]
|character1=Joyce Byers
|actor2=[[David Harbour]]
|character2=Jim Hopper
|actor3=Finn Wolfhard
|character3=Mike Wheeler
|actor4=Millie Bobby Brown
|character4=Eleven
|actor5=Gaten Matarazzo
|character5=Dustin Henderson
|actor6=Caleb McLaughlin
|character6=Lucas Sinclair
|actor7=[[Natalia Dyer]]
|character7=Nancy Wheeler
|actor8=[[Charlie Heaton]]
|character8=Jonathan Byers
}}

{{TV Title Season|1|Stranger Things{{!}}Stranger Things}}

__TOC__ 

{{spoiler}}

=Handguns=
==Beretta M9==
The [[Beretta M9]] is the sidearm carried by the Military Police personal at Hawkins National Laboratory. The use of the pistol is anachronistic since the pistol didn't enter U.S. military service until 1985, while the show takes place in 1983. It would be more accurate for them to be issued the [[Colt M1911A1]] like the government agents.
[[File:M9-pistolet.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Beretta M9 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Untitled-2.jpg|thumb|600px|none| A Military Police officer holds his Beretta M9 and a government agent holds his Colt M1911A1 on Chief Jim Hopper in "Chapter Five: The Flea and the Acrobat" (S01E05). Note how these appear to be either dummy or airsoft replicas.]]
==Colt M1911A1==
The [[Colt M1911A1]] is carried by government agents.
[[File:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[File:StrangerThingsS01E06-AgentsTakeM1911A1s1SS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An agent grabs an M1911A1 off a rack at the Hawkins National Laboratory (which, in real life, used to be the Georgia Mental Health Institute) in "Chapter Six: The Monster" (S01E06).]]
[[File:StrangerThingsS01E06-AgentsTakeM1911A1s2SS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another agent takes an M1911A1 in "Chapter Six: The Monster" (S01E06).]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 10 M&P==
[[Image:S&W-Model-10.jpg|thumb|400px|thumb|none|Smith & Wesson Model 10 Revolver - .38 Special]]
Jonathan Byers ([[Charlie Heaton]]) takes his father's [[Smith & Wesson Model 10]] when he and Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) set out to find the monster in Myrkwood in "Chapter Five: The Flea and the Acrobat" (S01E05).
[[File:Stranger-things-2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jonathan steals a Model 10 from the glove box of his dad's Oldsmobile 442 after his brother's funeral while Nancy looks on.]]
[[File:Stranger-things-3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jonathan practices firing the Model 10 at some beer cans. "I'm trying to hit the space between the cans."]]
[[File:Stranger-things-4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy takes aim at a beer can during shooting practice with Jonathan. Her "golf club-style" grip seems unorthodox, but it's probably safe to assume that most high-school girls don't know how to properly hold a handgun. Despite this, she hits the can on her first shot.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 66==
Chief Jim Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) appears to carry a [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] as his sidearm.
[[File:Smith-&-Wesson-Model-66.jpg|300px|thumb|none|Smith & Wesson Model 66 with 4" barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:StrangerThingsS01E05-HopperAimsRevolverSS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Hopper aims his Model 66 at a hazmat suit-wearing agent inside the Hawkins National Laboratory in "Chapter Five: The Flea and the Acrobat" (S01E05).]]

=Submachine Guns=
==Heckler & Koch MP5K==
The [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]], sometimes fitted with a flashlight, is used by government agents and MPs throughout the series.
[[File:MP5KA3.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Heckler & Koch MP5K with "Navy" trigger pack - 9x19mm]]
[[File:StrangerThingsS01E06-AgentTakesMP5K1SS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An agent opens a locker with an MP5K inside it at the Hawkins National Laboratory in "Chapter Six: The Monster" (S01E06).]]
[[File:StrangerThingsS01E06-AgentTakesMP5K2SS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The agent grabs the MP5K in "Chapter Six: The Monster" (S01E06).]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5K (Mock MP5K-PDW)==
[[Heckler & Koch MP5K]]s with PDW stocks attached are also used by agents. Since the show takes place in 1983, this is considered anachronistic since the MP5K-PDW variant was not developed until 1991. Some of the stocks actually looked more similar to UMP stocks, making them even more anachronistic.
[[File:MP5K-PDWEarly.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP5K 9x19mm with the PDW-style folding stock attached, commonly used in films to emulate the PDW.]]
[[Image:MP5K-UMP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW fitted with a [[UMP]]-style stock - 9x19mm]]
[[File:StrangerThingsS01E06-AgentsTakeMP5K-PDWs1SS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An agent takes an MP5K with a UMP stock off a rack at the laboratory in "Chapter Six: The Monster" (S01E06).]]
[[File:StrangerThingsS01E06-AgentsTakeMP5K-PDWs2SS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another agent grabs an MP5K in "Chapter Six: The Monster" (S01E06).]]

=Other=
==Crossman 2240 CO2 Air Pistol==
What appears to be the [[Crossman 2240 CO2 Pistol]] is occasionally used by agents.
[[File:Crossman 2240 Air Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Crossman 2240 CO2 Pistol]]
[[File:StrangerThingsS01E06-AgentsTake2240s1SS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An agent grabs a Crossman 2240 CO2 Pistol at the laboratory in "Chapter Six: The Monster" (S01E06).]]
[[File:StrangerThingsS01E06-AgentsTake2240s2SS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another agent takes a Crossman 2240 in "Chapter Six: The Monster" (S01E06).]]

[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Horror]]
[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Netflix]]

File:Stranger-things-4.jpg

2016-09-12T15:16:20Z

Cozmo: Nancy takes aim at a beer can during shooting practice with Jonathan.

Nancy takes aim at a beer can during shooting practice with Jonathan.

File:Stranger-things-3.jpg

2016-09-12T15:13:43Z

Cozmo: Jonathan aims his Model 10 at some cans for target practice. "I'm trying to hit the space between the cans."

Jonathan aims his Model 10 at some cans for target practice. "I'm trying to hit the space between the cans."

File:Stranger-things-2.jpg

2016-09-12T15:10:36Z

Cozmo: Jonathan steals a S&W Model 10 and a box of rounds from the glove box of his father's Oldsmobile 442 at his brother's funeral.

Jonathan steals a S&W Model 10 and a box of rounds from the glove box of his father's Oldsmobile 442 at his brother's funeral.

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2015-12-01T20:38:09Z

Cozmo: /* Question */

== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

''"I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele"'' - Corrected the section as noted. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 13:56, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Hey, correctness is a virtue. Good on you for doing it. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 01:39, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Ah yes, I remember that passage. Thanks for the quote. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE'''''

:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

::::::Those of you who were saying he was denying the enemy are correct. You'll notice that he doesn't pocket the magazine. He tosses it away. He didn't field strip it because he likely didn't know how. So the easiest thing to do would be to unload it and throw the magazine away. I was in the military and we were trained to be observant and look for things that would compromise security (like unsecured enemy weapons). One thing you never do is use ammo you find lying around on the street, and in any case, M14Fanboy was right in that the calibers of the US weapons were totally incompatible with the Soviet rounds. Smashing the rifle would have taken time and energy that needed to be spent elsewhere. Besides, it's a rifle...not an airsoft gun. Have you ever tried to smash a real AK? There's a reason it's been in service for so many years... [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 01:52, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

::::: I believe it was because he was firing his M14 until it ran out of ammo, and then using a helo crew member's M16 before retreating to reload both rifles.:::

:::- Yes, that's the case. Gordon is also seen dropping his CAR-15 when it's empty and using his 1911. Later, when Shughart is killed, he fires the M14 'til it's empty, then switching to his 1911, and when that is empty, using an MP5 from the chopper. Hell, they're being overwhelmed, and it is quicker to pick up and and shoot another weapon that is ready than reload the present one. They were pretty much using whatever they could trying their damndest to fend an army off, I would think that was obvious. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I did read Mike Durant's book and would like to point out he referred to Randy's weapon as a High-Tech rifle. as we all no, it was a vietnam era M14. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 21:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:I just stared reading Durant's "In the Company of Heroes" before he called it a "German piece of crap", he said the MP5 had shot fine at the range but he probably had neglected to clean it. It was after Shughart gave him Gordon's CAR-15 which didn't jam and was far more effective despite only having half a mag left he thought of the MP5 as a piece of shit. He also had an M9 that he never drew, which he said probably saved his life since he wasn't seen as a threat. While Shughart's M14 isn't really a "High-Tech rifle" it was a lot better than a bolt-gun in the situation he was in. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:52, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I was always under the assumption that it was taken to be put to rest with the rest of the body. Never leave a soldier behind.
That all said, i was always told by SF soldier i knew that they were trained to even go as far as to scoop up vomit they might have left to not leave behind any traces of themselves. -MissySummers-

The film (as everyone knows) took liberally from Mark Bowden's book. The film splits one incident ("the hand" and the "RPG in the chest") into two different scenes. According to Bowden's book (and the actual accounts of the Rangers) the hand belonged to SP4 Richard 'Alphabet' Kowalewski. It was blown off when an RPG hit him in the chest (while in the cab of a truck), but did not explode. PFC Clay Othic was in the truck when the RPG hit, but did not pick up Kowalewski's hand. It was SP4 Aaron Hand (ironic?) that "found the lower portion of Alphabet's arm on the street. All that remained intact was the hand. He picked it up and put it in his side pants pocket. He didn't know what else to do, and it didn't feel right leaving it behind." (quoted portion from Bowden's book "Black Hawk Down"). So, the film split the one incident into two scenes. The first scene of Othic picking up a hand, that in the film, could not have belonged to Kowalewski and the second (and later) scene of Kowalewski being hit and killed by the RPG rocket that did not explode. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 21:41, 19 October 2013 (EDT)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

'''Don't forget about the 10th Mountain and the U.N Soldiers. Whoever created this page missed them completly and they had alot of firearms. Whats omore is i can't for some reason edit the page. the autheor needs to fix this right away'''

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::I'm fairly certain this convo is referring to the later M4 with detachable carry handle. That's why I mentioned the 727 having an A2 upper. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:44, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

All gear that is used in the US Army has to be tested. Part of this testing cycle is to give it to SF, Rangers, Delta, etc. to field it before it is approved for widespread use. Considering the length of trials and the endless bureaucracy in the DoD, it is completely plausible that these guys had the first generation of the M4 in TFR/OGS. I saw a SCAR in the wild on my latest deployment to Afghanistan last year. These guys are like the pro athletes of the military world. All sorts of manufacturers will just give them gear to use in order to try to get them to reccomend it... Optics, armor, boots, gun accessories, etc...

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

::Which is funny, because when Griz is drawing in the barracks and Busch walks up behind him, he calls him "Griz." But not "all" Delta had their names changed. Norm Hooten was really there, but for the movie they combined him with John Macejunas. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:04, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

I read somewhere that Delta Operators are given an allowance to pay for their 1911 and any customisations they want done to it. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:59, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.
:Isn't GAU-17 an Air Force designation? When the weapon is in Army use isn't it still referred to as the M-134? --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 19:15, 2 February 2013 (EST)
::Yes, but it is the designation for a particular variant of the M134 which is what was used in the film. As far as I know there is no Army designation for this variant so I can only assume that they refer to it as the GAU-17/A. If not, using this term is still clearer than "M134 variant that would be the GAU-17/A if it was in the USAF". I'm guessing the term is universal, as the Navy use it for airborne mountings and refer to it as the GAUSE-17/A (with the SE standing for Shipboard Equipment) when it is mounted to the deck of a ship for point defence. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:42, 2 February 2013 (EST)
:::To weigh in on this again (first comment), I don't think the answer is "M134 variant that would be the GAU-17/A if it was in the USAF" nor is it "GAU-17." The answer is, it's a GE M134 with DA upgrades. The reason that is the answer, is that is what is stated in the film commentary, and that is what it is. The Minigun is an interesting weapon in that, as far as the US Army is concerned, the designation doesn't change, even though the weapon has, significantly. A stock GE Minigun, a PI GE Minigun with DA upgrades and a DA Minigun are all "M134" as far as the Army is concerned. The manufacturers' designations of M134D, M134D-T, M134D-H, M134G, M134GI etc are not recognized designations in the Army. Just because the weapon has a vented flash hider doesn't make it a GAU-17. The original DA flash hiders were vented anyway before they adopted a non-vented flash hider for their ground-up built Miniguns. --[[User:Gau17|Gau17]] ([[User talk:Gau17|talk]]) 15:25, 22 November 2013 (EST)

== Remington 870 Shotgun ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

As indicated on the main page and above (by an unknown poster), the Remington 870 Shotgun is seen being used by an extra/stuntman to breech a door right after being dropped by the Little Birds. The extra/stuntman IS NOT William Fichtner as evidenced by the images below - his individual equipment does not match that of Fichtner's. Further there are "on set" photographs showing at least one extra/stuntman equipped with the same type Remington 870 in addition to the one carried by Fichtner. The scene is from the "Black Hawk Down Extended Cut," NOT a "director's cut" (as the unknown person posted above). Ridley Scott has yet to do a "director's cut" of "Black Hawk Down," and I doubt he ever will due to his negative feelings about how the [[Alien]] and [[Blade Runner]] Director's Cuts turned out.
[[Image:BHD001.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown extra/stuntman preparing to fire a Remington 870. He also carries one of the rubber stunt prop M4 carbines that appear throughout the film in the hands of different extras, stuntmen, and actors. Note: there were no actual "firing" M4 carbines utilized in the film - only rubber stunt props of them.]]
[[Image:BHD002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown extra/stuntman firing a Remington 870.]]
Further, MSG (SFC in 1993) Paul Howe did indeed carry, and utilize, a CAR-15 (his was a Colt Model 653) with a 12-gage shotgun mounted on it (at least two photographs exist of him with the weapon prior to the operation). The term "Masterkey" is anachronistic as Knight's Armament came up with the term years later. At the time (1993) Ciener was the only company producing a shotgun mount for M16-series rifles and carbines. They simply called it an "under/over mount." [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 21:24, 19 October 2013 (EDT)

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v
:Not to mention a flashlight beam in that environment would scream, "here I am, shoot me!" [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

That's Jeremy Piven, nowadays best known for playing Ari Gold on HBO's Entourage. Wikipedia says he played CFO Clifton Wolcott.

:I do not think it Piven. In the film he plays a pilot role and his hair is black.
http://files.haiguinet.com/flashupload/UploadedFiles/1252005569_159Jeremy_Piven.jpg
http://emsworth.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jeremy-piven-in-black-hawk-down-2.jpg
When I put the photos on the page, before to name him "delta actor", I looked for the name of this guy in the entire cast. Unsuccessfully. I think it is a stunt.--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Definitely not Piven. Maybe he's a stand-in or something. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:06, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

::Flight gloves, as I just fucking explained, are not restrictive or obstructive in the slightest.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

:::- ''Uh, I had replied below I didn't know about these gloves specifically, which you seem to have failed to notice. Just as you also seem to have failed to notice that all these comments you posted this slightly irritable and unnecessary response in-between were all posted '''days ago'''. It might help if you thoroughly read the comments and check the dates next time.'' [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Flight gloves are a very thin layer of Nomex with a Clarino palm and finger overlaid. These are very light, wick sweat, and give you tactile feeling and the ability to perform tasks as though you were bare handed. They are maybe a few mm thick on the palms, and do not affect in any way your shooting ability or accuracy, even whilst firing an M249, which is notorious for running away due to gloves getting stuck and holding the trigger back.

:::I was in the Army for 9 years, and I wore flight gloves all the time during exercises. I never had a problem with them whatsoever. I was a SAW gunner as well. Whoever posted that caption about trained operators not wearing gloves is an idiot. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:14, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

==Discussion about the bullets, or something==
- Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Geneva convention forbids hollow point ammo in the military. The Police of the nation is a different subject. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:You're thinking of the Hague Convention of 1899, not the Geneva Convention.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was the GC or HC and didn't really care to look it up at the moment.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Hague banned all use of ammunition that easily expands or flattens in a human target. I have no exact idea of what round is being used or how it gets around the HC, I only know that when asked about the effectiveness of 5.56 ammunition, a few SF guys made mention that have been issued a new "expanding" round. I have also heard that Marines are now being issued an expanding type round. It may be that since we are not actually fighting an official "military force" that the HC and GC do not apply. Also you must remember that the use of .50 cal against personnel is banned too, how often do you think that is observed?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not saying we follow either conventions to a T in every war, I'm just echoing what I heard from a man who was there. A lot of people who lived through the battle of mogadishu came away with the feeling that Bill Clinton cared more about how headlines would look than he did about the safety of our soldiers. As for HC and GC not applying, I agree that they really don't apply to A) organizations that are not militaries but instead ragtag terrorist groups and B) hail from nations that didn't exist at the time of the convention and never signed a similar document. It's the same argument that was applied for the waterboarding of captured terrorists; apparently, they apply some standards to those who didn't sign, but not others. Personally, I think that terrorist groups and undeveloped countries where they never signed the conventions shouldn't get the protection of them, and we really need to invest into expanding ammunitions for everyone; AP doesn't make sense for unarmored targets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The question about observing the laws was rhetorical in nature. But I agree wholeheartedly about what you say pertaining to the HC and GC applying to people who did not sign it. Its like bringing pirates and terrorists into the US to give them civilian trials. People say they should get military trials... When according to the GC (that people are so happy to apply to the situation) pirates and terrorists are not able to receive either. We selectively apply laws to make us look good internationally, when in reality it costs money, and even worse lives of US citizens and military forces.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 12:36, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances full metal jacket .556 is an ideal round. When fighting a traditional battle, against an enemy that follows the rules of war, it is far better to wound the enemy than kill him. Gunner313

We haven't fought a conventional war that lasted any period of time since Korea (and you could even say WWII, since Korea was less than conventional). Also with the way the enemy works now, any intel we can gather from enemy combatants will likely be useless (if it ever was useful) by the time it gets to the guys on the ground. Also as stated by me, and others before, under 50 yards and especially against an enemy that is drugged up a FMJ is likely not going to down an enemy either by wounding him or killing him. Of course shot placement comes into play heavily, but as cases have proven a COM shot is likely not to drop a determined attacker immediately. Head and extremity shots are also very hard to make, with FMJ pretty much the only way to immediately and most important reliably drop an attacker at close range is a pelvic shot. But now days in Afghanistan most fighting is taking place on the far end if not beyond the 5.56's effective range. Also Gunner313 it is 5.56, not .556, .556mm is a really damn small projectile haha. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 14:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

One could say that the First Gulf War was conventional. we were fighting an organized military(Iraq), i still think they were a bunch of crazy towel heads hellbent on destroying the western world.[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Why is it better to wound them? -SasquatchJim.

Because then you can detain them get information from them.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. I apologize; I thought he meant that wounding them was more humane, or something. Although, dead people can't keep shooting at you; wounded ones can. -SasquatchJim

It is better to wound them because it requires the enemy to care for their wounded, they have to be treated, they have to be transported, it is demoralizing to the others to hear someone in terrible pain, so for a short time a wounding shot, takes two people out of the fight. Also the more medical supplies that have to be shipped to the front for the wounded, means less of other items such as ammo, food, fuel, misc... Gunner313

Makes sense to me. Thanks. -SJ

Well in my opinion, I still think it's better to kill the enemy rather than just wound them, that way they don't get patched up and come back later to kill you.

agreed. especially in Somalia when if their not dead their gunna come back and shoot you in the back. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:- Bah, can't believe my one off-hand comment spawned all this. Heh. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing to add other than that this was really informative. This site is one of the best blind discoveries I've made on the internet. --[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] 01:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Never Forget==
Sorry to post as anon, but I dont have an account but frequent the site. Just wanted to point out that today is the 17th anniversary of the US intervention in Somalia.

:- Actually the anniversary is for the mission and subsequent battle portrayed in the film. The 'intervention' began as Operation Provide Relief, which started in December 1992. Still, good to point it out. EDIT - I actually just realized that not only is it the anniversary, but the actual day is correct (That is, Oct. 3 was a Sunday, same day as the Oct. 3 in the battle). Again, pretty cool I guess. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The entire day yesterday i thought about it. i decided to watch the movie being Sunday Oct-3. i also found it fit to say a pray for the brave soldiers who lost their lives fighting to help the ungratefull bastards. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Interesting Uniform Note==

Just wanted to point out an interesting observation about the uniforms worn by the Rangers; this is one of the few films to accurately depict the transition from the 6-color "chocolate chip" camouflage made famous during Desert Storm to the 3-color "coffee stain" pattern that was used throughout the rest of the 1990's and during the invasion and early occupation of Iraq in the early 2000's. During the transition between these two camouflage patterns, it was common to see a combination of the two patterns on the same soldier; they would wear the new DCU's with the old 6-color on their PASGT helmets. Practically all the Rangers in the film have this combination.

[[Image:BHDMinimi-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|[[Tom Hardy]] wielding an FN Minimi as Spc. Twombly, giving us a good look at his 3-color DCU uniform and 6-color helmet cover]]

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun ==

What gun have Mo'alim in his shoulder? He don't remove it from the shoulder at any time, but there are two scenes where you can see:

1 When prevents the killing of Duran:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/

2 When the cannon is firing in the area of the first downed helicopter:
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/

are you referring to the AK-74u? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:37, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I think he is referring to the pistol in his shoulder holster under his left arm. Can't make it out though, will have to have a look on my Bluray version when I get a minute, but don't think it can be seen well enough to make it out. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 10:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

i wasn't aware he had a shoulder holster? can you upload a photo?[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it is a revolver or a pistol:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/
i couldnt see anything on the 2nd picture but the first was definetly a revolver. my guess, and im not expert with revolvers would be a .38 or 357 perhaps a S&W? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== Doc Schmid ==
In the movie PFC Kurt "Doc" Schmid is shown as a Ranger medic but in reality he was Delta Force. It's curious why they chose to depict him as a Ranger and not a Delta operator in the movie.

Maybe they forgot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is somewhat unrelated, but I found it really funny that Schmid is played by the same actor who later played [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185836/ Adam]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

''"In the movie PFC Kurt "Doc" Schmid is shown as a Ranger medic but in reality he was Delta Force"'' - Added this information to the front page. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 13:58, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

==tapeing==
i was just watching this , and i noticed that a majority of the rangers taped the ends of the butt stocks on their rifles . Why is that?-[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]
:I believe that tape was used (not quite sure how) to attach the sling to the butt of the rifle. Tape is also used at the front of the rifle, to attach a loop of para cord around the front sight to the sling. The reason this was done was so that the sling would be attached on the top/side of the weapon, rather than the bottom (where the only fitted sling loops are) to make it more usable in combat. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:25, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

i noticed nearly all the mag's have brown tape on them, any reasons for this, or is it just purely cosmetic? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:32, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

STANAG Magazines are smooth and can be hard to grip on to to reload, especially in a high stress situation like combat. The tape helps you to grip the magazine for a speedy reload, MAGPUL makes sleeves that slide over them now. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 3:31, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Nelson's M60 ==

Is is correct to have Nelson carrying the Vietnam Era M60 over the M60E3 or E4? I'm not sure when the E3 or E4 came out.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 03:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

:The M60 used in the film is an original spec M60, the same as were actually used by the Rangers in Somalia (As identified by the hand guard and bi-pod attaching at the end of the barrel). Not sure exactly when the E3 was made (started being issues in 1986), but I know there was one in the 1985 film [[Commando]]. Regardless, I don't think it was that widely used, as the lighter weight barrel and other parts made the gun more prone to overheating and malfunction. The rangers actually used a mix of M60s and FN MAGs as shown below:
:[[Image:101120ritchie20pursley8yp.jpg|thumb|500px|none]]

::''"Is is correct to have Nelson carrying the Vietnam Era M60 over the M60E3 or E4"'' - Yes, because the United States Army never adopted the M60E3 - the United States Navy and Marines Corps however did. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

:Also, there has been talk on this page about what the actual weapons used by Delta where, and I cannot speak to this operation in particular, but in most of the photos I have seen of Delta force in Somalia, there are actually armed with M16A2s, normally with a telescopic sight mounted onto the carry handle (example below). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/9607/21820burns20weaver6az.jpg

::The photograph linked above DOES NOT depict Delta operators, they are Rangers. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

::Delta operators in Somalia used Colt Model 723 carbines with M4 style barrel, at least watching the few pictures of that time. --[[User:Pz.Abt.100|X-Ray Bravo 6]] 13:54, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

::: The Model 723s utilized by Delta operators, during Operation Gothic Serpent, DID NOT have the ''"M4 style barrel"'' - they had the standard barrel. Further they utilized Model 653s along with the Model 723s and Model 727s. [[User:Sgtmonroe|Sgtmonroe]] ([[User talk:Sgtmonroe|talk]]) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

:::Did the Rangers at the time use a black ballistic vest in addition to the woodland RBAs? While searching for M60 photos saw several photos of people in black vests carrying M16A2s with an optic on the handle, also sometimes carrying shotguns and LAWs. Are these likely Rangers rather than Delta then? Also, there are pictures of rangers using colt carbines with the step down M4 type barrels, so I think there was a much wider variety of weapons used than the film shows. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
::::The Rangers only wore Woodland camo RBA (Ranger Body Armor) vests and desert-camo PASGT helmets during the operation (see the "Interesting Uniform Note" section above for info about the desert camo patterns used in the film). Black vests were Delta-issue only. Sort of like present-day spec. ops units using Dragon Skin vests while the main Army uses Interceptor/IOTV vests (though it's not as easy to tell the difference between the modern-day examples by looking at them. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

In the book there was specific mention of a couple of the Rangers being stuck with the Delta "Turtle" Armor because they didn't have enough of the Ranger vests for a while.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 09:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks, that explains photos like the following one then (also, note the Colt carbines with M4 type barrels the Rangers are carrying.)
:[[Image:RangersM4.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

:Also, can anyone shed some light as to what is going on with this SAW:
:[[Image:Saw.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
:First off, isn't this an E2, rather than the E1 as the main article says was used by the Rangers? Also, why does it look like the receiver is made of different metal, and is the sight mount a standard fitting, or something cobbled together? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 00:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Another thing the book mentions is that Delta's Armorer played gunsmith for some of the Ranger guys (at least 1 customized SAW is mentioned).-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

that part of the book is referring to Spc. Waddell's SAW and i believe is was a grip that was put on. i would also like to shed some light on the fact that in 1993 only the Armys Special Ops like Delta Force had that kind of ability on their weapons, and now every soldier on the battlefield has the ability to put on optics, lights, lasers, and stocks. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:22, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes that is the part I was referring to, although I remember there being more than just a grip added, but its been a while. Also Rangers aren't basic infantry, they too are a part of USASOC. and in a combat zone leeway with weapons (also uniforms, gear, etc) is pretty much at the command's discretion. I believe that they would allow Rangers a bit of leeway with modifying their weapons in certain ways to enhance their effectiveness in a given environment. Spc. Waddell's SAW grip would have been noticed by his command at some point, and either him or the Delta armorer would have had to get permission to modify it, being that it is US Gov property (not to mention the other customized weapons we see in Ranger's hands in photos).-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 04:31, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Just noticing. Why do some people call it an "M4" type barrel? I mean it's a rifle in service before the M4 came out, so shouldn't it NOT be called an M4 barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:48, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

You got me on that one... Probably because most people know the "M203 Step" Barrel as an M4 feature, so it gets genericised as an "M4 Profile Barrel".-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:53, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I mean didn't they have the step down barrel before the M4 came about? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe so, but it would have only been within a couple years of the M4s debut (the Colt 727 comes to mind). Another reason would be marketing, people will pay more for a milspec carbine that has the "M203 step barrel" so companies market the rifles as having "M4 profile barrels".-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:41, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Is this the only film to have someone shooting an M16 on burst-fire mode? ==

I would kinda doubt it, but it's the only time I've ever seen it. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 06:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

You referring to when Daniel Busch is sliding out from under the Walcott bird? That's the only time I remember. [[User:Thursday|Thursday]] 07:51, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

He's referring to a point where one of the Rangers kills an approaching Somali with a three round burst from his M-16A2. Sgt. Busch is using an M727 and fires quick single shots to kill the miltia approaching the Blackhawk. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 08:16, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, can remember any burst stuff, I'll re-watch it after work. And I'm very aware Busch had a 727. I wonder why Gary Gordons rifle wasn't on burst in the movie, it was in real life. [[User:Thursday|Thursday]] 15:29, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

They're referring to the part near the end when the rangers are running out of the city and one of them guns down a woman who picks up a rifle. As for burst mode: most likely the M16 in question was a full auto weapon (as virtually all of them in Hollywood are) and the actor simply fired a couple of short bursts (possibly with some editing done by the sound and special effects teams) to make in appear as though he was using burst mode.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 17:39, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

== RPG Shooting ==

I was just looking through the section regarding the RPGs, and noticed something peculiar. Look at the shooter in the first picture. Now look at the guy in the second. Now back at the first. Is it just me, or are the two guys shooting down the two different helicopters from two different places actually the ''exact same guy''? Notice the matching folds in their clothing, and the cloth wrapped around their heads, and their silhouettes. They're all identical. Anyone else see what I'm seeing? [[User:August.allocco|August.allocco]] 18:20, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

== M16A2 ==

I think The M16A2's in the film are actual real ones. the lower reciever is that of an actual A2, and they fire in two modes only, Semi and 3 round burst.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

==Question==

Why was Gordon's 727 suppressed? In the book, it says that he was providing sniper cover from the air until he landed to defend the downed Black Hawk, but wouldn't it make more sense to fire unsuppressed. I mean, why would he worry about making too much noise when theres a battle going on? And wouldn't this decrease the muzzle velocity, surely that would make sniping from the air much harder.

: Might have been a flash suppressor. But it might also be Hollywood getting mixed in there. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 15:38, 1 December 2015 (EST)

==M16A2s==
[[Image:BHDM16A2-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]
It seems that all of the so-called "M16A2s" have forward assists and are probably M16A1s with M16A2 handguards or mocked up to resemble an M16A2. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 10:16, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

Not to sound disrespectful but what the hell are you talking about? The M16 in that screenshot clearly has the A2 sights and the A2s have forward assists as well. They are not A1s with A2 handguards because of the A2 sights. They could possibly have A1 lowers to make them fully automatic as opposed to firing 3 round bursts like the A2 does. But externally they are definitely an M16A2. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 11:03, 15 October 2011 (CDT)
:Makes sense as MPM2008's images of the M16A2 are M16A2s with A1 lower receivers as one user pointed out, which caused some confusion for me when I started learning about the M16A2. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 14:55, 15 October 2011 (CDT)
:: The point is those could actually be real deal M16A2s as they fire semi auto in every shot apart from at the end where one Ranger fires what looks like a 3 round burst anyway. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:40, 16 October 2011 (CDT)
Firstly M16A2s have forward assists, so there is no reason that having the FA would make it an A1. Secondly, the guns have brass deflectors (triangular protrusion behind the ejection port) which A2s have and A1s don't. Thirdly these guns have the more complicated adjustable rear sights of A2s. The guns in this film do use M16A1 pattern lower receivers, as noted by the lack of reinforcement around the takedown pins, but I don't think they are actually Colt lowers as the M16A1 type lowers didn't have the fire selector markings stamped on the right side of the gun. Also, MPM2008's image of an M16A2 is correct, it is the M16A1 images which have the wrong lower receiver (not a standard Colt lower as it has the front reinforcement of an A2, but like the A1 lacks the rear reinforcement and right side fire selector stampings). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:07, 16 October 2011 (CDT)
::Hold on. Upon seeing this picture, I started wondering why some of the Army or Special Forces personnel will have their rifle stock and or end of magazine taped with different colours? Is it just a habit or to serve other purposes?
:::The tape on the magazine is to make it easier to grip, since STANAG magazines are fairly smooth; I guess it's the same theory with the stock. Tape can also be used to mark magazines for easier recognition of special loads (say, a tracer-heavy magazine for marking targets). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:29, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
::::I think the tape on the stock is actually something to do with the way the sling is attached on to the rifle. They don't seem to be using the sling loop at the bottom of the stock, instead I think it is just attached to paracord wrapped around the stock and held in place with the tape. The main reasons I have seen for wrapping tape around the bottom of a magazine was to hold a loop of paracord in place to make it easier to get the magazine out of a webbing pouch (the pre Magpul solution) or for marking magazine loads as Evil Tim said. This is not the case here so I suppose it must be for grip, but seems odd that the tape is around the middle of the magazine rather than the bottom, where the the magazine would be held to get it out of a pouch. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:52, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
:::::Sorry, but when do they fire the guns on full auto? I saw the movie not too long ago and i only saw them fireing on semi and 3 round burst. I never saw a full auto one. --[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]
::::::Right towards the end of the film one of the Rangers fires two quick bursts. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:51, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I'm just watching the movie to look out for burst/auto, but jsut noticed something else. Can't screencap blurays, but at 50 minuted in as Eversmann is watching the first blackhawk go down you see the butt of his rifle, showing that it is from an A1 rifle. Also, at 40:30 when Hoot is pushing gown the heads of the prisoners as they are captured, the Delta behind him has a CAR-15 with 10" barrel, no forward assist or brass deflector, and possibly a partial fence lower (out of focus and hard to tell), making it an XM177, also called GAU-5/A. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:22, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
:::::::: ok, but Cool-breeze, you just said he fired two quick BURSTS. Not a full auto drag. I just rewatched that scene and he fired two quick THREE round bursts.--[[UserGunner5|Gunner5]]
:::::::::Yeah but the likelihood that it is an M16A2 with an A2 lower is very remote as pretty much every motion picture M16A2 I've seen fires full auto at some point. The only way to find out if it has a burst lower is if there is a decent screen grab so we can read the markings on the receiver. I think Black Hawk Down is the only film I've seen an A2 not firing full auto if it's not firing on semi. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 19:46, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::The guy fires 2 bursts, the second of which sound like it might have been 4, but it is off-screen so that proves nothing. These rifles have A1 lowers which would suggest that they are full auto. However in the screencap above, the third position (although hard to read) looks more like burst than auto. Swinging it back the other way though, A1 receivers shouldn't have selector markings on this side, so it is either a non Colt lower so could be burst or auto, or it has been engraved by the armourer to replicate an A2 so wouldn't necessarily be correct. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:00, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

can anyone tell me why the buttstocks are taped?-2ndCommandos

== M249/FN Minimi ==

This page lists Twombly's (and others') weapon as an FN Minimi standing in for an M249-E1.

However, the weapon in the movie clearly has U.S. M249-style rear sights, which was the main differentiator from the FN design it was based on.

I believe that the weapon is really a M249 (first edition, before the E1), not a FN Minimi.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_Down#FN_Minimi

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/FN_Minimi#FN_Minimi

:Problem is, from looking things up more recent Minimis have started using the SAW rear sight. Wikipedia's article on the Minimi has pictures of Swedish and Australian soldiers with SAW-rear-sight Minimis. IMO, these are more likely to be Minimis with new top covers than 1980s-vintage unimproved SAWs. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:07, 25 December 2011 (CST)

==Issue with some of the recent edits==

While I like how some parts are more detailed and some sections split/modified, I have a bit of an issue with the descriptions forcefully stating how actors and stuntmen are ''portraying'' the operators and soldiers. It seems a bit much, not to mention redundant - though based on an actual event, it is still a movie, and I would think it's generally assumed the actors are of course actors and stunt performers and ''aren't'' any of the actual operators/soldiers - to deliberately 'state' so seems kind of rich and perhaps a bit improper. In the case of the actors and their characters, we go by how they're credited, not who they are 'portraying' since its not always the same (the portrayals can be noted, but the actual credit shouldn't be ignored/removed) - if there are exceptions to this (such as the pilot) they are also noted but I thought it was pretty much common knowledge about how these are still actors, and that they may may 'portraying' certain individuals that don't match their credited role and that that doesn't need to be unduly, possibly negatively emphasized. What's more, I'm not sure omission of some information and even some additions are in the page's best interest (An edit by someone stating that they did away with 'some nonsense' is a bit harsh and frankly may not be said person's call) - There were some quotes or notations that were removed when there seemed to be no need to do so. Also the use of word 'allegedly' also seems a bit improper and unnecessary as well, especially in spots.

Generally it seems these edits don't keep a fully impartial and encyclopedic viewpoint, which is what I take issue with. Bottom line as I understand it, the site is foremost about documenting the movie's firearms and any information or notations relevant to that or in furtherance of that - the site is not here to make corrections about any and all factual errors regarding the events portrayed in this film, or indeed in any film, except again perhaps in regards to the firearms. It's also not about playing with semantics either. Any errors or such about the film that may or (generally) may not apply to the weapons should, for the most part, be kept on the discussion page. At least that is how I understand it. That said, any other significant edits being made should also be noted in the discussion before being made. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 16:23, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

: You're 100% correct. I'm going to undo the edits. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 16:30, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::There's no need to undo everything, just bring everything in line with our style. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:39, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
:::Will do.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 16:47, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::Am I the only person who wishes that Delta soldiers weren't called "operators"? It just sounds so corny in a bad, mall-ninja way. Not calling Delta mall-ninjas, but they ''really'' need a less cheesy name. It's not like "commando" was already taken.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 16:54, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::You can leave in the gun stuff, like the tidbit about the tape around the magazines, which is pretty interesting. "Commando" IS taken, is it not? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:58, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::: US doesn't have any "Commando" units. I'll put the tape bit back.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 17:05, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::::No, but when I read "commando," I think of the Brits first. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 17:13, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::::As well you should :) --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:20, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::::::::See? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 17:39, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
: I think the term operator is alright.. it is proper nomenclature, isn't it? Otherwise looks alright.. I didn't mind things like the NSN for the carbine and all that, but that's only 'cause I'm into military-technical crap like that. :P Plus it has little to do with the movie weapons I suppose. Frankly I think the page was fine before the edits - I don't see why the other stuff couldn't have just been added on. Basically I have no problem with addition of anything relevant, but pejorative-sounding words and phrases and removal of possibly relevant info I take issue with. That said, I kinda liked the grouping of the Colt 727 and 733 and I liked that layout - sure it wasn't standard but it was a nice little specific feature of this film page which I liked a lot, but that's just me I guess.. The old notations in the 733 section about the ones with the XM177 muzzle moderator and Gordon's rifle with the suppressor and the like should probably be put back also since otherwise it would appear different weapons are grouped into the same entry. I could patch 'em up if you guys want, either way. Thanks fellas. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 17:37, 22 October 2013 (EDT)
::The term Operator applies to members of Delta who have passed the Operator's Training Course and is also used to seperate the door-kickers from the support guys in the unit. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]])

== Why no SEALs in the movie? ==

Anyone happen to know why aren't the four DEVGRU operators in the movie? I know this is not a documentary but still. Was the ST6 involvement classified back in 2001? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 02:56, 31 March 2014 (EDT)
: The SEALs were mentioned in the 1999 book the movie is based on, guess the director figured that they already had a bunch of Delta, Rangers, and 160th guys to work with and four guy from a different unit weren't worth adding. And it's not like they'd be all that different from Delta in the end anyway. Just four guys in a slightly different uniform.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 14:55, 31 March 2014 (EDT)
:: I remember reading something written about when they were writing the script they already had to compress about 150 people into a more managable number of characters, cutting it down to about 40 characters. Some of the real life people were merged together into one character. Adding the SEALs in would have just added more characters to a script that already had far more main and supporting characters than 95% of Hollywood films. Bare in mind the average cinema-goer isn't going to know the difference between Delta, SEALs, Marines, Rangers etc. Keeping it to Delta and Rangers helped set up that the Rangers were the normal soldiers and the Delta guys were the more elite soldiers. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 15:38, 31 March 2014 (EDT)

Talk:Lost - Season 4

2015-12-01T00:21:45Z

Cozmo: /* Please Help ID */

== Please Help ID ==

Please help ID this revolver. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 01:16, 16 November 2014 (EST)
[[File:LostS4E08 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|(S4E08)]]
[[File:LostS4E08 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|(S4E08)]]
[[File:LostS4E08 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|(S4E08)]]
[[File:LostS4E08 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|(S4E08)]]

My best guess is that it's a Charter Arms Bulldog Pug in the first three images (in the first one you can see the pin between the cylinder and the trigger, and in the third image you can clearly see it's a 5-shot cylinder). For the cylinder close-up they cut to a Colt Detective Special, which is a 6-shot revolver (you can tell by the distinct star pattern on the lug, and by the curves on the cylinder release). I guess they figured nobody would know the difference. :/ [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 18:31, 30 November 2015 (EST)
:It looks like a [[Colt SF-VI/DS-II]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 18:56, 30 November 2015 (EST)
::Yep, as I was second-guessing myself, I came to the same conclusion. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] ([[User talk:Cozmo|talk]]) 19:21, 30 November 2015 (EST)

Talk:Lost - Season 4