Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Far Cry 5

2018-04-15T04:38:07Z

Bristow8411: /* AR-C */

Looks like UbiSoft will be revealing the gameplay on Friday (May 26th) but, for now, they have released a teaser image. Looks like the game is set in Montana and the villains are a crazy, religious cult (Like the Westboro Baptist Church, I guess).--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 14:42, 24 May 2017 (EDT)

[[File:FarCry5_Teaser_Poster.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Wonder if the enemies will all still be running around with AK-103s and P416s as they have been in the last two games...., also, I hope they paid the NFA tax on those short-barreled carbines or we'll be ATF simulator-ing that dog.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 15:42, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
::I bet it'll be full auto weapons all around because Ubisoft, a French company with developers in Canada thinks every American is a white red neck with full auto M16s in their back yard [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:48, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
:::To be fair, a combination of black market usage, home gunsmithing/machining, and theft could net one a fair amount of fully-automatic weaponry (especially if, as seems to be the case here, the group in question effectively operates without any law enforcement supervision), but still, there have to be some limits. Full-auto converted AR-15 carbines and Luty-style SMGs I could understand; FAMASes and QLZ-87s, well, I'd be a fair bit less forgiving. Then again, this is Far Cry, so it's not exactly meant to make a whole lot of sense. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 21:27, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
::::Ubisoft just doesn't care all that much about realism and prefers to include cool guns in their games. I can't imagine the weapon set in Far Cry 5 will be any attempt at a political statement at all, though people will certainly take it as such given the new setting. It's gonna be a big amalgamation of different cool to use but ultimately probably not very realistic weapons. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 18:29, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
To be serious, aside from how this may be a dumb story plot, I do hope they use different weapon templates. I will be pissed if I see the same AK, POF 416, SIG and for the love of God, there better not be any FAMASs in this game set in America. Also, the image already confirmed RPGs...even though really no one can get them here [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:48, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
:Nah, man, they're totally gonna keep reusing weapons from previous games. I mean, it's apparently not an Ubisoft game these days if it doesn't have the Far Cry 3 P416 model in it somewhere (I'm legit surprised they haven't thrown it into R6 Siege yet), plus there's all these other models from Watch_Dogs 2 and Wildlands just begging to be put into another game or two... [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 05:54, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
::in all seriousness though I would love at least a different AK model or something. This one's gonna be set in America, give us a 5.56mm AK. Wouldn't even need much work to turn the AK-103 model into a believable AK-101, I'd like to imagine. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 05:56, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
:::The P416 actually [http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/359550/header.jpg?t=1495046645 shows up] in the initial startup screen of Siege, lol. Also, there's no reason why an AK in America has to be 5.56; it just shouldn't be an AK-100 series since those aren't exactly imported in America (Arsenal SLR is probably the closest thing).--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:43, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
I'm just hoping they're let you use more than 3 attachments in the single player.
:Honestly, it's not even the "3 attachment" trope that pisses me off the most, but it's the fact that Ubisoft actually locks some attachments to multiplayer only and you have to download a patch to be able to use them in SP. (Like the SPAS-12 suppressor and the SVD illuminated sight). Nobody even plays Far Cry multiplayer, so why even bother doing that??? --[[User:Patfast|Patfast]] ([[User talk:Patfast|talk]]) 14:25, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
::On the subject of attachments, here's hoping that extended magazines actually change the weapon models now. Now, a lot of these changes that we hope for aren't likely, but hey, a man can dream. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 20:08, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
To be fair, the RPG-7 is one of few (common) reusable rocket launcher out there, so if they're gonna include any at all (which they will, because it's Far Cry, come on), is not a poor choice. The Desert Eagle and MP5 will also likely return, seeing as how they've been in every major Far Cry game to date. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 18:23, 25 May 2017 (EDT)

I hope they really switch up the current Far Cry formula of "you must defeat le psychotic bad guy by capturing ALL the radio towers", but knowing Ubisoft, probably not. Also, $50 on there being at least one Buford T. Justice caricature of a southern police officer. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:22, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
:Nice job out there! Only 5 more bell towers to go and you can buy an RPG from an unsuspecting gun store, because obviously that's how it works in America! --[[User:Patfast|Patfast]] ([[User talk:Patfast|talk]]) 14:16, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
::They're going to set it in an Amish community, so all this will be new to them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:22, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
:::I can't find the pic, but someone did photoshop the image so it said Duck Dynasty 5 instead. That made me chuckle.--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 01:02, 26 May 2017 (EDT)

Grrrrhhh it will be a Far Cry 3/4 just with a different skin (hero join a La Resistânce group for defeat the Bad Guy/Guys)... they should had done something revolutionary like they did Far Cry 3. It didnt look the same to Far Cry 2, and if werent for the title you won't even assume they were same series...--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:42, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

Well I've pre-ordered my copy, based on the knowledge that /k/ will hunt me down and kill me if I don't screencap this. Let's just hope it doesn't have some godforsaken random multiplayer unlock system to stash weapons behind like the CoD games decided to have. And doesn't need me to grind for hours in a phone app to get one of the unique weapons, that would be nice too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:33, 25 March 2018 (EDT)

== Trailer Dropped ==
Well, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdaoe4hbMso UbiSoft] dropped the trailer and it looks good. In terms of weapons, I don't think I saw any from the previous games (thankfully), but I did see two shotguns I couldn't ID, what looks to be a PDW, an AK-74, and a VERY quick shot of a revolver. --[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 13:18, 26 May 2017 (EDT)
: Looks like there's a Remington 870 with wooden furniture as well, and another short-barreled "cruiser" pump-action with polymer furniture, Browning M2HBs on the technicals, a MAC-10/11. According to the Far Cry website, the game's AR-type gun is called the "AR-C", and doesn't look to be based on any particular AR variant (that I know of), though the selector switch looks kind of like an HK's. The sawed-off "D2 Shotgun" from Far Cry 4 appears to be returning, but with a new model this time (thank god it's not the cut down Double Rifle.) Though this time around it looks like it was manufactured that way, seeing that it has front sights and a proper finish, making it technically not "sawed-off" at all. The 1911 is also back, and also has a new model. Looks to be an amalgamation of several M1911 variants (Springfield Armory, Kimber, etc.) rather than a single one.
--[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 16:44, 26 May 2017 (EDT)

::I've never been particularly good at telling pump-action shotguns apart (unless it's a SPAS-12 or maybe an Ithaca they really all look nearly the same to me), but taking a close look at the shotgun in the trailer and comparing it to screenshots from Far Cry 4, I think it ''might'' possibly be the FC4 M133 model. Again. Damnit. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 04:15, 27 May 2017 (EDT)
:::If you watch the character trailers, you can see it's not the same model (it's especially clear at the end of the one set in the bar.) It's got a much longer barrel and a shorter magazine tube than the MP133. Which is good, because not only is reusing the models dumb, but the Baikal is also a pretty bad choice in rural America when you have the equally common and near-identical M870. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 18:09, 28 May 2017 (EDT)
::::Is the MP133 a copy of R870? From what I know, it's just further development of Baikal-81, which seems to be quite an independent development. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 09:30, 28 March 2018 (EDT)
::Here's an amalgamation of several trailers into one, giving some good shots of some of the weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxav5An1sAs [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 16:53, 26 May 2017 (EDT)
Luckily Ubi decided to get it together and give most of the weapons new models this time around. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 02:27, 28 May 2017 (EDT)
::I think that the reason the AR and 1911 don't seem to be based on any particular model might be intended to reflect how people will custom build their AR's and 1911's rather than just buying a full one off the shelf A LOT nowadays, which is something I've been wanting to see in a game for a while.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2017 (EDT)

== Gun Wishlist ==

What do you folks want? --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:24, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

: Well already there appears to be some kind of high caliber lever gun from what I see from the trailer. Guide gun maybe? I'd love a Browning BLR, maybe a BAR Safri as a Hunting/Sniper Rifle too. I'm fully expecting some kind of AK as well, whether it be a video game mashup or maybe even a civi variant like a Romanian WASR converted for full auto, because I highly doubt FC5 will have fire controls for selective fire. Also expecting some more Revolvers too, although I'm hoping for a more traditional .357 revolver over the .44 Magnum. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 12:08, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

:I'm just hoping we get a few of the "American classics" in there - Single Action Army, Thompson, M1 Garand, etc. Older American movie guns like the TEC-9, MP5A3, Winchester 1887, and Desert Eagle, all of which have been in FC games in the past, hopefully will reappear as well (some, like the MAC-10 are already confirmed.) --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 13:11, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

:The Coonan, though that's probably hoping for too much, considering how obscure the damned thing is. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 15:17, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
::Aaaand cue this random guy listing off a bunch of stuff that's varying degrees of strange, and will never get into the game: A Ruger PMR-30, a Chiappa Rhino, literally anything made by Mateba, a COP 357, a Taurus Judge, a Thompson Center Contender, a Magnum Research BFR, a Remington XP-100, an Arsenal AF2011A1, an HK VP70M, a Ruger 10/22, with a 25-round BX-25 magazine and an aftermarket full-auto trigger pack (yes, those exist, and they are absolutely hilarious), an American-180, an AR-18, an M2 Carbine, an STGW-57, an Ithaca MAG-10 Roadblocker, a Chiappa Triple Threat, a DP-12, an SRM M1216, a K31 with an optional aftermarket scope mount, a Mossberg 464 SPX, a Hadar II, an HK SL8, the .700 Nitro side-by-side from FC4, a Kel-Tec RFB, a Lahti L-39, an M2 Flamethrower (to replace the jury-rigged LPO-50 from the earlier games), a Manville Gas Gun, a Gyrojet, a Hawk MM1... on one hand, listing off all these random-ass weapons makes me happy; on the other hand, realizing that they'll never be in this game (and, most likely, a fair amount of them won't be in many/any games at all) makes me sad. Yours truly dishonestly, [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:45, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

:I'd kill for not the Colt Python, but its more obscure just-as-cool cousin the [[Colt Trooper Mk III]] ( 4in. blued is a must ). Pistols I would like would be the [[SIG P210]], a [[First Model CZ 75]], the [[AMC Auto Mag Pistol]], the [[Smith & Wesson 39]], and a [[Mauser HSc]]. The only other thing is to have a [[Federal Gas Riot Gun]] as a launcher. -[[User:SeptemberJack|SeptemberJack]] ([[User talk:SeptemberJack|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
::An M9A3, Browning Hi Power, Glock 19, the Judge someone mentioned earlier, the M500 (because ''Far Cry''), and the M29 for handguns/magnums. A good old tried and true AR-15 as a basic rifle would be nice, along with the Mini-14 and maybe a full-size M14 for DMRs, the expected AK and M16 variants for assault rifles, an M1903 (ala ''Far Cry 2''), M1 (which you can upgrade into an M1-C), and some form of Barret rifle for snipers, the 870, Ithaca (with mods for making it a Stakeout), KSG, and some form of Armsel drum-fed shotgun for shotguns, and the tried and true M249, M60, and M2 for machine guns of various flavors. I'd also like to see the M79 come back from ''Far Cry 2'' because it adds such a new dynamic to gunplay. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 22:30, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
:::For the record, the M79 was also in ''Far Cry 4'', and it was awesome there too, I'd love for it to make another return. Personally, I'd also like to see a FAL of some variety (preferably a full-size model just so they at least have to put ''some'' work into it instead of just copying over the ''Future Soldier''/''Blacklist'' SA58 and calling it a day) and some more revolvers. Maybe a Charter Arms Bulldog, they could make the Signature version into the ''Blade Runner'' gun. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 00:34, 30 May 2017 (EDT)
::::If they do that, it needs to fire rifle rounds, ''a la'' ''Fallout New Vegas.''--[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 22:52, 3 June 2017 (EDT)

They should add civilian variants of military guns like the [[ARX-160|ARX-100]], the Texan-buiod [[MSBS]],[[SCAR-L]], the [[SIG-Sauer P320]] that is now standard of US Army,Glocks,[[SR-47]]...--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 07:51, 30 May 2017 (EDT)

I wish for an actual regular Glock. G17, or G19 and it isn't a full auto Glock as the default. Make the full auto Glock a special gun you get later. For handguns, an M&P series, maybe in .40 since your character will be a cop of sorts or LEO. For new gun flavors, I want to see the MPX, Scorpion Evo 3, MDR. Let's see some Kel-tec guns like their KSG, even though it isn't really a new hotness anymore or the RFB or the RDB. There are so many guns in America to choose from. I want to see an SKS or something [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:43, 30 May 2017 (EDT)

Personally I'd love to see some factual basis for the guns in this game. Having the likes of say an ultimax or PKP say just doesn't fit. I'd also like say a Krebs or Rifle Dynamics AK. Both are good US made platforms and not seen in a VG before. Also ditch the staple weapons. No desert eagle, no P416, no AK103 variant.
A decent domestic AR15 variant would be nice as opposed to the standard M4/M16 we see from typical VG. Also add a glock, a SIG and a SCAR H/RFB instead of the ACE.--[[User:Forrest1985|Forrest1985]] ([[User talk:Forrest1985|talk]]) 13:26, 2 June 2017 (EDT)
:The Desert Eagle would make more sense in the American setting than any of the other Far Cry games, ironically enough. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 14:10, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

The 2016 version would be awesome.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 15:11, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

I wouldn't mind them bringing back the Tec-9. Add a MAC-10 with the big old suppressor would be cool. I seriously doubt a non-American company like Ubisoft to be aware of specific custom gun makers like Rifle Dynamics or Taran Tactical unless those companies reach out to Ubisoft to have their guns represented or someone on the design team reach out to them [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:56, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

Mac-10 in place of tec9 from FC4 wold be nice with the huge suppressor as the signiture edition. With regards to desert eagle, its really accurate but for me its an overused hollywood wonder weapon bit like Glock 18. I'd prefer a nice S&W or Colt revolver in the classic VG "hand cannon" slot instead. With regards to RD, Krebs, or TT I am sure Ubisoft have google? Activision seems to make great use of it for their weapon choses. It was my personal wishlist hence the addition of an american based AK designer. If they wanted an authentic setting rather than just re-use guns from R6 siege and watch dogs then perhaps they could have done some research? I do love Ubisoft but they are definitely following the COD rinse and repeat when it comes to firearms. A classic 1911 would be nice perhaps with the back story that it was the main characters Grandads piece from WW2. --[[User:Forrest1985|Forrest1985]] ([[User talk:Forrest1985|talk]]) 16:24, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

== Screenshots ==
https://postimg.org/image/jatr0x2id/ & https://postimg.org/image/hkapzfkz9/

Ubisoft uploaded a few screenshots to their website, these are high def variants. They look doctored to me, but assuming this is anything like what the game will be (ha ha), there are a few things that stick out: the WW2 plane in the second image is definitely a frankenplane, a bastard child of a Ju 87 and Bf 109 by the looks of it. It looks like the rear facing MG15 has been replaced by a Browning M2, or maybe an AN/M2 (something I'm okay with, because an actual firing MG15 would make very little sense.) Also, in the first image, you can see the ally on the right has an AR-type that's very similar to the one the player & enemies are holding, but it's a longer-barreled variant and has a custom paint job (and no sights at all, ugh.) This, combined with the fact that there are even more AR-types shown in promo images or trailers makes me think that weapon customization will actually be somewhat extensive in this game, rather than the "two attachments per gun" thing Far Cry 3 & 4 had going. It COULD just be a signature rifle or something, but I'm willing to bet it might be more. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 11:44, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

I can already tell the AR has the front sight on backwards...like the last game. The rail kinda reminds me of Daniel Defense's new M-Lok rail [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:57, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

== E3 footage ==

There's a revolver, AR-15-based assault and sniper rifles, a shotgun, an AK, and several pistols from what I can see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNbtgJreV80 --[[User:MJ79|MJ79]] ([[User talk:MJ79|talk]]) 18:01, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
:No video anymore, it's been taken down. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 23:02, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
::https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX_h8rneDxU Pretty sure this is the same video as the one taken down.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 00:36, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
: Said sniper rifle has a telescoping that's fully retracted. What exactly did the developers think the lever was for? --[[User:VladVladson|VladVladson]] ([[User talk:VladVladson|talk]]) 04:08, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
: Well, the chick shooting it does look kinda short, maybe it sits better on her shoulder like that. I mean, that ''is'' the idea behind adjustable stocks after all. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 04:44, 13 June 2017 (EDT)

== Sad News... ==

New firearms confirmed are : Fabarm FP6,M4A1(yeah),M11A1 variant,MBP.50 (high caliber rifle).
Sad News?

Suspance...

Another bit..

Most of them are recycled. So we get the usual arsenal. AGAIN. So pissed.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 05:11, 12 July 2017 (EDT)

:: Where did you get any of this information? I haven't seen anything recycled thus far, except for the Vz.61 Skorpion on the game's expanded cover which is clearly the same as the one in Ghost Recon: Wildlands (or at least rendered the same.) But even that doesn't confirm it'll be ingame that way, or in the game at all for that matter. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 10:18, 22 July 2017 (EDT)

I get it on the wikia.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 03:09, 4 September 2017 (EDT)

:: The Far Cry wiki is poorly maintained and none of the recycled guns listed there are sourced, nor have they appeared in any promo material I could find. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 13:40, 17 September 2017 (EDT)

== Screenshots ==

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_car_293319.jpg
I can't figure out what the hell the gun in the technical is, though it kinda looks like an M60D, and the guy in the Mustang has what looks like a FABARM with wood furniture and rifle sights.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_coop_293329.jpg
That looks like the original 9mm MAC-10, and the guys on the ground are probably using the AR-C they mentioned earlier.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_dog_293337.jpg
Once again, the AR-C and a guy with only one kneecap.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_cult_293335.jpg
And the M1911 again, I thought it had a tan frame, but that's just the lightning.

Question, since the trailer dropped already, shouldn't we make the page and not just stick around here? --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 18:30, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

== Weapon classifications ==

Is it accurate to list machine pistols as SMGs and the flamethrower as a launcher? --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 11:31, 24 December 2017 (EST)

:The Skorpion is called an SMG as often as it's called a machine pistol, and a flamethrower is a launcher. It launches flames. More to the point flamethrowers usually get put in launchers because it's rare for there to be more than one of them in a given work so giving them their own category is a bit silly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:46, 24 December 2017 (EST)

::Sure,I can see how the Skorpion qualifies but not the MAC. I don't see any reason why flamethrowercan't be categorised as"other". --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 12:52, 24 December 2017 (EST)

:::MAC-10 is also classified as an SMG at least as often as it's called a machine pistol. SMG at least benefits from having a real definition (pistol calibre automatic) while with machine pistol once you get outside auto versions of actual pistols you're left spinning in the wind mumbling about form factors. And every other Far Cry page lists the flamethrower under launchers, it's something of a standard. I don't think it's worth fretting over. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:05, 24 December 2017 (EST)
::::Well as far as I can tell an SMG is an automatic or select fire weapon with a carbine length barrel and chambered ina pistol cartridge. That description doesn't fit either gun. Also I still think it's wrong to list a flamethrower as a launcher. I can't be the only one who thinks it's bizarre that liquid propellants and rockets are the same according to this page. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 16:50, 24 December 2017 (EST)
:::::Naw, that definition doesn't work because there's some SMGs that ''don't'' have carbine-length barrels: for example, the TDI Vector's barrel is only 5.5 in, only half an inch longer than an M1911's, while an MP5K's barrel is ''shorter'' than an M1911's at 4.5 in, which is the same length as a Skorpion's and 0.01 in longer than a MAC-10's. [[Kedr PP-91]] only has a 4.7 inch barrel, too.
:::::The LPO-50 specifically is a weapon that uses an explosive charge to fire, so is basically a gun that happens to fire a projectile that's liquid. Calling it a launcher is actually completely accurate to how it operates. Also as I said, it's not really worth worrying about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:02, 24 December 2017 (EST)
:::::: Bah, we've long rolled machine pistols into SMG categories with a few exceptions those being the rather few automatic variants of otherwise semiauto-only pistol model-groups (Glock, Beretta, CZ). MAC-10/11, Skorpions, Mini/Micro Uzi, etc are not related to sidearm-vein handguns and thus they fill more a SMG aesthetic while still also meeting all the other criteria (pistol caliber, select fire, and many have folding or detachable stocks allowing them to be technically 'shoulder fired'). Barrel length is rather irrelevant as Tim pointed out - I'll add that longer barreled guns like the Calicos and the earliest 'sub' guns are likewise listed as SMGs as they meet the other requirements while having barrel lengths as long as many rifles. An aside, I'm not seeing the difference between Skorpions and MACs in this discussion at all. Anyway, all-told yes it is.. if not 'accurate', then certainly not improper to categorize them as such. The alternative is come up with a 'machine pistol' category which really just opens up another can of worms. As for the flamethrower, that is even less of a question mark, since as ET noted, it is indeed technically a launcher that propels flame instead of grenades or rockets. What it propels is rather irrelevant in this regard. I'd put gas dischargers under the same, also. Anyway, no one is saying they're the "same", just that they share some similar characteristics enough to be grouped together. A Blunderbuss and a AA-12 are certainly not the same except for the single fact they both fire shot - which is enough to categorize them both in one section. Now while I grant flamethrowers are generally put in 'other' sections in many other pages, those pages also don't diversify into explosives and launchers as is done here - hand grenades and rocket launchers would be lumped with them. That and the 'other' section is already used for another purpose it seems - it would be bizarre to do it that way here by my reckoning. Now I suppose the launchers and explosives could all be lumped together into an 'other' section while the existing other with the listing about the cover weapons could be renamed 'special' or something. But as said, this is part of a series with this one weapon listed a certain way and I would lean to keeping it so for the sake of consistency among the set, especially when it's not improperly listed otherwise. Bottom-line, I more agree with Tim in that this ain't worth making a stink about - and this coming from someone who has made stinks about things of this sort in the past. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 23:27, 24 December 2017 (EST)

== Possible lever gun in trailer ==

At around 43 seconds in the Announcement Trailer you can someone hunting a deer with what appears to be some sort of lever action rifle, though you can't see a lever so it might be a semi-auto sporting rifle. If someone can ID this should it be added? I don't think it's gameplay footage so I'm not sure if this counts. Also, I hate to bring up categories again but if this gun is in the game then the categories need a small overhaul. It's not really a sniper and it certainty isn't an AR. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 11:06, 28 December 2017 (EST)

== Marlin 1895 ==

What makes this a "Sniper Rifle"? You can tell from my post history that I am a bit pedantic but I don't see how an unscoped lever action rifle qualifies as a sniper. Has this just been categorised as such for simplicity's sake or am I missing something here? --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 19:45, 9 March 2018 (EST)
:I think it’s classified as so in game and can mount the sniper scopes, so that’s the reason.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 20:50, 9 March 2018 (EST)
:If it's in the sniper rifles category in the game it's probably treated as one in terms of things like the ammo it uses and the upgrades it gets. It's probably just that the low-tier sniper rifles don't come with a scope by default. Might change it to "Sniper / Marksman Rifles" I suppose. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:04, 10 March 2018 (EST)

== Moved ==

==Beretta 92FS==
The [[Beretta 92FS]] appears in the perk menu and in the game files as the "M9." Its appearance in game is as of yet unconfirmed.
[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm]]

==Luger P08==
The [[Luger P08]] appeared in pre-release media and in the game files as the "Luger." Its appearance in game is as of yet unconfirmed.
[[Image:Luger.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Luger P08 - 9x19mm]]

I'll take a look for some evidence of these later, but if it's just finding names in the game files that's not worth including. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:03, 28 March 2018 (EDT)

== Click sounds ==

Can somebody explain to me why some games such as this one and CS:GO have those ANNOYING empty click-like sounds simultaneously with each round that you fire, when your magazine is almost empty? (no matter if your weapon is full-auto or bolt-action) CoD WWII has also has this, albeit on the last round only. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 13:09, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
:It's supposed to help you keep track of your remaining ammo since the HUD element for the ammo counter is so small, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:14, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
::I had it in my mind that it's for this reason, but if it's merely for this one it's stupid (not to mention that the HUD is still visible in these games), and as I've said, really annoying (and loud compared to the firing sound), especially on automatic weapons. Now on the opposite end of the scale, I somehow remembered Operation Black Mesa, which was supposed to come out as a remake for Half-Life: Opposing Force, and where apparently there wouldn't have been any HUD at all, so you'd have your character check the chamber before reloading. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:13, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

== Lackluster gun selection ==

I was honestly hoping for more stuff and weird that not a single American made shotgun. Was hoping for the MDR or UMP, or other variants of M4s or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:34, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

Hope (County) that there will be "DLC"s like in [[GTA V]] or [[Ghost Recon: Wildlands]]. In this times game are rarely released full finished. But yeah you are right. For my opinion they should take off the "Prestige" variants and replace them with completely different guns. The U.S. of A. are the lands of guns! --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 04:48, 30 March 2018 (EDT)

== 1911 ==

I don't think the 1911 is based on any S&W model as the in-game gun has no external extractor, as all SW1911s have. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:57, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
:They probably just forgot to put it there, like the belt box on the M60. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:34, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
:: I feel like they went with a different model of Kimber for the 1911, other then the front serrations, it reminds me a lot of the Kimber Two Tone. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 22:59, 4 April 2018 (EDT)

== ArtStation for Lead Artist ==

Not sure if it would be useful, but I found the Artstation for the lead artist at Ubisoft Montreal, [https://www.artstation.com/grassam Greg Rassam], who's got many pictures of their weapon assets. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 05:57, 7 April 2018 (EDT)
:It's kind of neat to look at, but I wouldn't really use those on the page because (a) they're watermarked and (b) they're high-poly models rather than the in-game assets. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:52, 7 April 2018 (EDT)

== AR-C ==

I don't understand why the description on the page seems to imply that it's some sort of frankenrifle. To me, it seems like it was obviously supposed to be some sort of fictional custom AR15 carbine build, rather than some sort of rifle "inspired" by the AR15. --[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 15:07, 14 April 2018 (EDT)
:The word "inspired" is only used with regard to how the receiver is put together, and that's because the rear part of the receiver doesn't seem to come together in quite the same way an AR upper and lower would. The name would lead people to think it's supposed to be an ACR, it does have some gross features of an ACR, but it has features an ACR wouldn't have but an AR would. It looks rather like someone who ''almost'' knew the mechanics of the AR tried to design an AR that looked like an ACR, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 15:41, 14 April 2018 (EDT)
::I think I see your point now about the receiver. For reference, [http://ar15barrels.com/tech/armalite-dpms4.jpg| this] is an example of a slanted AR10 upper on a more typical (DPMS) curved lower.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:57, 14 April 2018 (EDT)
::: I feel like the weapons designer took some inspiration from the [https://www.evike.com/products/45913| Mega Arms MKM Airsoft Rifle], other than the markings and rail system, the upper looks quite similar. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 00:36, 15 April 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Far Cry 5

2018-04-15T04:37:47Z

Bristow8411: /* AR-C */

Looks like UbiSoft will be revealing the gameplay on Friday (May 26th) but, for now, they have released a teaser image. Looks like the game is set in Montana and the villains are a crazy, religious cult (Like the Westboro Baptist Church, I guess).--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 14:42, 24 May 2017 (EDT)

[[File:FarCry5_Teaser_Poster.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Wonder if the enemies will all still be running around with AK-103s and P416s as they have been in the last two games...., also, I hope they paid the NFA tax on those short-barreled carbines or we'll be ATF simulator-ing that dog.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 15:42, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
::I bet it'll be full auto weapons all around because Ubisoft, a French company with developers in Canada thinks every American is a white red neck with full auto M16s in their back yard [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:48, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
:::To be fair, a combination of black market usage, home gunsmithing/machining, and theft could net one a fair amount of fully-automatic weaponry (especially if, as seems to be the case here, the group in question effectively operates without any law enforcement supervision), but still, there have to be some limits. Full-auto converted AR-15 carbines and Luty-style SMGs I could understand; FAMASes and QLZ-87s, well, I'd be a fair bit less forgiving. Then again, this is Far Cry, so it's not exactly meant to make a whole lot of sense. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 21:27, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
::::Ubisoft just doesn't care all that much about realism and prefers to include cool guns in their games. I can't imagine the weapon set in Far Cry 5 will be any attempt at a political statement at all, though people will certainly take it as such given the new setting. It's gonna be a big amalgamation of different cool to use but ultimately probably not very realistic weapons. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 18:29, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
To be serious, aside from how this may be a dumb story plot, I do hope they use different weapon templates. I will be pissed if I see the same AK, POF 416, SIG and for the love of God, there better not be any FAMASs in this game set in America. Also, the image already confirmed RPGs...even though really no one can get them here [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:48, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
:Nah, man, they're totally gonna keep reusing weapons from previous games. I mean, it's apparently not an Ubisoft game these days if it doesn't have the Far Cry 3 P416 model in it somewhere (I'm legit surprised they haven't thrown it into R6 Siege yet), plus there's all these other models from Watch_Dogs 2 and Wildlands just begging to be put into another game or two... [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 05:54, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
::in all seriousness though I would love at least a different AK model or something. This one's gonna be set in America, give us a 5.56mm AK. Wouldn't even need much work to turn the AK-103 model into a believable AK-101, I'd like to imagine. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 05:56, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
:::The P416 actually [http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/359550/header.jpg?t=1495046645 shows up] in the initial startup screen of Siege, lol. Also, there's no reason why an AK in America has to be 5.56; it just shouldn't be an AK-100 series since those aren't exactly imported in America (Arsenal SLR is probably the closest thing).--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:43, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
I'm just hoping they're let you use more than 3 attachments in the single player.
:Honestly, it's not even the "3 attachment" trope that pisses me off the most, but it's the fact that Ubisoft actually locks some attachments to multiplayer only and you have to download a patch to be able to use them in SP. (Like the SPAS-12 suppressor and the SVD illuminated sight). Nobody even plays Far Cry multiplayer, so why even bother doing that??? --[[User:Patfast|Patfast]] ([[User talk:Patfast|talk]]) 14:25, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
::On the subject of attachments, here's hoping that extended magazines actually change the weapon models now. Now, a lot of these changes that we hope for aren't likely, but hey, a man can dream. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 20:08, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
To be fair, the RPG-7 is one of few (common) reusable rocket launcher out there, so if they're gonna include any at all (which they will, because it's Far Cry, come on), is not a poor choice. The Desert Eagle and MP5 will also likely return, seeing as how they've been in every major Far Cry game to date. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 18:23, 25 May 2017 (EDT)

I hope they really switch up the current Far Cry formula of "you must defeat le psychotic bad guy by capturing ALL the radio towers", but knowing Ubisoft, probably not. Also, $50 on there being at least one Buford T. Justice caricature of a southern police officer. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:22, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
:Nice job out there! Only 5 more bell towers to go and you can buy an RPG from an unsuspecting gun store, because obviously that's how it works in America! --[[User:Patfast|Patfast]] ([[User talk:Patfast|talk]]) 14:16, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
::They're going to set it in an Amish community, so all this will be new to them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:22, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
:::I can't find the pic, but someone did photoshop the image so it said Duck Dynasty 5 instead. That made me chuckle.--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 01:02, 26 May 2017 (EDT)

Grrrrhhh it will be a Far Cry 3/4 just with a different skin (hero join a La Resistânce group for defeat the Bad Guy/Guys)... they should had done something revolutionary like they did Far Cry 3. It didnt look the same to Far Cry 2, and if werent for the title you won't even assume they were same series...--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:42, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

Well I've pre-ordered my copy, based on the knowledge that /k/ will hunt me down and kill me if I don't screencap this. Let's just hope it doesn't have some godforsaken random multiplayer unlock system to stash weapons behind like the CoD games decided to have. And doesn't need me to grind for hours in a phone app to get one of the unique weapons, that would be nice too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:33, 25 March 2018 (EDT)

== Trailer Dropped ==
Well, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdaoe4hbMso UbiSoft] dropped the trailer and it looks good. In terms of weapons, I don't think I saw any from the previous games (thankfully), but I did see two shotguns I couldn't ID, what looks to be a PDW, an AK-74, and a VERY quick shot of a revolver. --[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 13:18, 26 May 2017 (EDT)
: Looks like there's a Remington 870 with wooden furniture as well, and another short-barreled "cruiser" pump-action with polymer furniture, Browning M2HBs on the technicals, a MAC-10/11. According to the Far Cry website, the game's AR-type gun is called the "AR-C", and doesn't look to be based on any particular AR variant (that I know of), though the selector switch looks kind of like an HK's. The sawed-off "D2 Shotgun" from Far Cry 4 appears to be returning, but with a new model this time (thank god it's not the cut down Double Rifle.) Though this time around it looks like it was manufactured that way, seeing that it has front sights and a proper finish, making it technically not "sawed-off" at all. The 1911 is also back, and also has a new model. Looks to be an amalgamation of several M1911 variants (Springfield Armory, Kimber, etc.) rather than a single one.
--[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 16:44, 26 May 2017 (EDT)

::I've never been particularly good at telling pump-action shotguns apart (unless it's a SPAS-12 or maybe an Ithaca they really all look nearly the same to me), but taking a close look at the shotgun in the trailer and comparing it to screenshots from Far Cry 4, I think it ''might'' possibly be the FC4 M133 model. Again. Damnit. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 04:15, 27 May 2017 (EDT)
:::If you watch the character trailers, you can see it's not the same model (it's especially clear at the end of the one set in the bar.) It's got a much longer barrel and a shorter magazine tube than the MP133. Which is good, because not only is reusing the models dumb, but the Baikal is also a pretty bad choice in rural America when you have the equally common and near-identical M870. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 18:09, 28 May 2017 (EDT)
::::Is the MP133 a copy of R870? From what I know, it's just further development of Baikal-81, which seems to be quite an independent development. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 09:30, 28 March 2018 (EDT)
::Here's an amalgamation of several trailers into one, giving some good shots of some of the weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxav5An1sAs [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 16:53, 26 May 2017 (EDT)
Luckily Ubi decided to get it together and give most of the weapons new models this time around. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 02:27, 28 May 2017 (EDT)
::I think that the reason the AR and 1911 don't seem to be based on any particular model might be intended to reflect how people will custom build their AR's and 1911's rather than just buying a full one off the shelf A LOT nowadays, which is something I've been wanting to see in a game for a while.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2017 (EDT)

== Gun Wishlist ==

What do you folks want? --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:24, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

: Well already there appears to be some kind of high caliber lever gun from what I see from the trailer. Guide gun maybe? I'd love a Browning BLR, maybe a BAR Safri as a Hunting/Sniper Rifle too. I'm fully expecting some kind of AK as well, whether it be a video game mashup or maybe even a civi variant like a Romanian WASR converted for full auto, because I highly doubt FC5 will have fire controls for selective fire. Also expecting some more Revolvers too, although I'm hoping for a more traditional .357 revolver over the .44 Magnum. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 12:08, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

:I'm just hoping we get a few of the "American classics" in there - Single Action Army, Thompson, M1 Garand, etc. Older American movie guns like the TEC-9, MP5A3, Winchester 1887, and Desert Eagle, all of which have been in FC games in the past, hopefully will reappear as well (some, like the MAC-10 are already confirmed.) --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 13:11, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

:The Coonan, though that's probably hoping for too much, considering how obscure the damned thing is. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 15:17, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
::Aaaand cue this random guy listing off a bunch of stuff that's varying degrees of strange, and will never get into the game: A Ruger PMR-30, a Chiappa Rhino, literally anything made by Mateba, a COP 357, a Taurus Judge, a Thompson Center Contender, a Magnum Research BFR, a Remington XP-100, an Arsenal AF2011A1, an HK VP70M, a Ruger 10/22, with a 25-round BX-25 magazine and an aftermarket full-auto trigger pack (yes, those exist, and they are absolutely hilarious), an American-180, an AR-18, an M2 Carbine, an STGW-57, an Ithaca MAG-10 Roadblocker, a Chiappa Triple Threat, a DP-12, an SRM M1216, a K31 with an optional aftermarket scope mount, a Mossberg 464 SPX, a Hadar II, an HK SL8, the .700 Nitro side-by-side from FC4, a Kel-Tec RFB, a Lahti L-39, an M2 Flamethrower (to replace the jury-rigged LPO-50 from the earlier games), a Manville Gas Gun, a Gyrojet, a Hawk MM1... on one hand, listing off all these random-ass weapons makes me happy; on the other hand, realizing that they'll never be in this game (and, most likely, a fair amount of them won't be in many/any games at all) makes me sad. Yours truly dishonestly, [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:45, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

:I'd kill for not the Colt Python, but its more obscure just-as-cool cousin the [[Colt Trooper Mk III]] ( 4in. blued is a must ). Pistols I would like would be the [[SIG P210]], a [[First Model CZ 75]], the [[AMC Auto Mag Pistol]], the [[Smith & Wesson 39]], and a [[Mauser HSc]]. The only other thing is to have a [[Federal Gas Riot Gun]] as a launcher. -[[User:SeptemberJack|SeptemberJack]] ([[User talk:SeptemberJack|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
::An M9A3, Browning Hi Power, Glock 19, the Judge someone mentioned earlier, the M500 (because ''Far Cry''), and the M29 for handguns/magnums. A good old tried and true AR-15 as a basic rifle would be nice, along with the Mini-14 and maybe a full-size M14 for DMRs, the expected AK and M16 variants for assault rifles, an M1903 (ala ''Far Cry 2''), M1 (which you can upgrade into an M1-C), and some form of Barret rifle for snipers, the 870, Ithaca (with mods for making it a Stakeout), KSG, and some form of Armsel drum-fed shotgun for shotguns, and the tried and true M249, M60, and M2 for machine guns of various flavors. I'd also like to see the M79 come back from ''Far Cry 2'' because it adds such a new dynamic to gunplay. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 22:30, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
:::For the record, the M79 was also in ''Far Cry 4'', and it was awesome there too, I'd love for it to make another return. Personally, I'd also like to see a FAL of some variety (preferably a full-size model just so they at least have to put ''some'' work into it instead of just copying over the ''Future Soldier''/''Blacklist'' SA58 and calling it a day) and some more revolvers. Maybe a Charter Arms Bulldog, they could make the Signature version into the ''Blade Runner'' gun. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 00:34, 30 May 2017 (EDT)
::::If they do that, it needs to fire rifle rounds, ''a la'' ''Fallout New Vegas.''--[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 22:52, 3 June 2017 (EDT)

They should add civilian variants of military guns like the [[ARX-160|ARX-100]], the Texan-buiod [[MSBS]],[[SCAR-L]], the [[SIG-Sauer P320]] that is now standard of US Army,Glocks,[[SR-47]]...--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 07:51, 30 May 2017 (EDT)

I wish for an actual regular Glock. G17, or G19 and it isn't a full auto Glock as the default. Make the full auto Glock a special gun you get later. For handguns, an M&P series, maybe in .40 since your character will be a cop of sorts or LEO. For new gun flavors, I want to see the MPX, Scorpion Evo 3, MDR. Let's see some Kel-tec guns like their KSG, even though it isn't really a new hotness anymore or the RFB or the RDB. There are so many guns in America to choose from. I want to see an SKS or something [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:43, 30 May 2017 (EDT)

Personally I'd love to see some factual basis for the guns in this game. Having the likes of say an ultimax or PKP say just doesn't fit. I'd also like say a Krebs or Rifle Dynamics AK. Both are good US made platforms and not seen in a VG before. Also ditch the staple weapons. No desert eagle, no P416, no AK103 variant.
A decent domestic AR15 variant would be nice as opposed to the standard M4/M16 we see from typical VG. Also add a glock, a SIG and a SCAR H/RFB instead of the ACE.--[[User:Forrest1985|Forrest1985]] ([[User talk:Forrest1985|talk]]) 13:26, 2 June 2017 (EDT)
:The Desert Eagle would make more sense in the American setting than any of the other Far Cry games, ironically enough. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 14:10, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

The 2016 version would be awesome.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 15:11, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

I wouldn't mind them bringing back the Tec-9. Add a MAC-10 with the big old suppressor would be cool. I seriously doubt a non-American company like Ubisoft to be aware of specific custom gun makers like Rifle Dynamics or Taran Tactical unless those companies reach out to Ubisoft to have their guns represented or someone on the design team reach out to them [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:56, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

Mac-10 in place of tec9 from FC4 wold be nice with the huge suppressor as the signiture edition. With regards to desert eagle, its really accurate but for me its an overused hollywood wonder weapon bit like Glock 18. I'd prefer a nice S&W or Colt revolver in the classic VG "hand cannon" slot instead. With regards to RD, Krebs, or TT I am sure Ubisoft have google? Activision seems to make great use of it for their weapon choses. It was my personal wishlist hence the addition of an american based AK designer. If they wanted an authentic setting rather than just re-use guns from R6 siege and watch dogs then perhaps they could have done some research? I do love Ubisoft but they are definitely following the COD rinse and repeat when it comes to firearms. A classic 1911 would be nice perhaps with the back story that it was the main characters Grandads piece from WW2. --[[User:Forrest1985|Forrest1985]] ([[User talk:Forrest1985|talk]]) 16:24, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

== Screenshots ==
https://postimg.org/image/jatr0x2id/ & https://postimg.org/image/hkapzfkz9/

Ubisoft uploaded a few screenshots to their website, these are high def variants. They look doctored to me, but assuming this is anything like what the game will be (ha ha), there are a few things that stick out: the WW2 plane in the second image is definitely a frankenplane, a bastard child of a Ju 87 and Bf 109 by the looks of it. It looks like the rear facing MG15 has been replaced by a Browning M2, or maybe an AN/M2 (something I'm okay with, because an actual firing MG15 would make very little sense.) Also, in the first image, you can see the ally on the right has an AR-type that's very similar to the one the player & enemies are holding, but it's a longer-barreled variant and has a custom paint job (and no sights at all, ugh.) This, combined with the fact that there are even more AR-types shown in promo images or trailers makes me think that weapon customization will actually be somewhat extensive in this game, rather than the "two attachments per gun" thing Far Cry 3 & 4 had going. It COULD just be a signature rifle or something, but I'm willing to bet it might be more. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 11:44, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

I can already tell the AR has the front sight on backwards...like the last game. The rail kinda reminds me of Daniel Defense's new M-Lok rail [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:57, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

== E3 footage ==

There's a revolver, AR-15-based assault and sniper rifles, a shotgun, an AK, and several pistols from what I can see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNbtgJreV80 --[[User:MJ79|MJ79]] ([[User talk:MJ79|talk]]) 18:01, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
:No video anymore, it's been taken down. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 23:02, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
::https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX_h8rneDxU Pretty sure this is the same video as the one taken down.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 00:36, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
: Said sniper rifle has a telescoping that's fully retracted. What exactly did the developers think the lever was for? --[[User:VladVladson|VladVladson]] ([[User talk:VladVladson|talk]]) 04:08, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
: Well, the chick shooting it does look kinda short, maybe it sits better on her shoulder like that. I mean, that ''is'' the idea behind adjustable stocks after all. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 04:44, 13 June 2017 (EDT)

== Sad News... ==

New firearms confirmed are : Fabarm FP6,M4A1(yeah),M11A1 variant,MBP.50 (high caliber rifle).
Sad News?

Suspance...

Another bit..

Most of them are recycled. So we get the usual arsenal. AGAIN. So pissed.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 05:11, 12 July 2017 (EDT)

:: Where did you get any of this information? I haven't seen anything recycled thus far, except for the Vz.61 Skorpion on the game's expanded cover which is clearly the same as the one in Ghost Recon: Wildlands (or at least rendered the same.) But even that doesn't confirm it'll be ingame that way, or in the game at all for that matter. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 10:18, 22 July 2017 (EDT)

I get it on the wikia.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 03:09, 4 September 2017 (EDT)

:: The Far Cry wiki is poorly maintained and none of the recycled guns listed there are sourced, nor have they appeared in any promo material I could find. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 13:40, 17 September 2017 (EDT)

== Screenshots ==

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_car_293319.jpg
I can't figure out what the hell the gun in the technical is, though it kinda looks like an M60D, and the guy in the Mustang has what looks like a FABARM with wood furniture and rifle sights.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_coop_293329.jpg
That looks like the original 9mm MAC-10, and the guys on the ground are probably using the AR-C they mentioned earlier.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_dog_293337.jpg
Once again, the AR-C and a guy with only one kneecap.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_cult_293335.jpg
And the M1911 again, I thought it had a tan frame, but that's just the lightning.

Question, since the trailer dropped already, shouldn't we make the page and not just stick around here? --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 18:30, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

== Weapon classifications ==

Is it accurate to list machine pistols as SMGs and the flamethrower as a launcher? --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 11:31, 24 December 2017 (EST)

:The Skorpion is called an SMG as often as it's called a machine pistol, and a flamethrower is a launcher. It launches flames. More to the point flamethrowers usually get put in launchers because it's rare for there to be more than one of them in a given work so giving them their own category is a bit silly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:46, 24 December 2017 (EST)

::Sure,I can see how the Skorpion qualifies but not the MAC. I don't see any reason why flamethrowercan't be categorised as"other". --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 12:52, 24 December 2017 (EST)

:::MAC-10 is also classified as an SMG at least as often as it's called a machine pistol. SMG at least benefits from having a real definition (pistol calibre automatic) while with machine pistol once you get outside auto versions of actual pistols you're left spinning in the wind mumbling about form factors. And every other Far Cry page lists the flamethrower under launchers, it's something of a standard. I don't think it's worth fretting over. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:05, 24 December 2017 (EST)
::::Well as far as I can tell an SMG is an automatic or select fire weapon with a carbine length barrel and chambered ina pistol cartridge. That description doesn't fit either gun. Also I still think it's wrong to list a flamethrower as a launcher. I can't be the only one who thinks it's bizarre that liquid propellants and rockets are the same according to this page. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 16:50, 24 December 2017 (EST)
:::::Naw, that definition doesn't work because there's some SMGs that ''don't'' have carbine-length barrels: for example, the TDI Vector's barrel is only 5.5 in, only half an inch longer than an M1911's, while an MP5K's barrel is ''shorter'' than an M1911's at 4.5 in, which is the same length as a Skorpion's and 0.01 in longer than a MAC-10's. [[Kedr PP-91]] only has a 4.7 inch barrel, too.
:::::The LPO-50 specifically is a weapon that uses an explosive charge to fire, so is basically a gun that happens to fire a projectile that's liquid. Calling it a launcher is actually completely accurate to how it operates. Also as I said, it's not really worth worrying about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:02, 24 December 2017 (EST)
:::::: Bah, we've long rolled machine pistols into SMG categories with a few exceptions those being the rather few automatic variants of otherwise semiauto-only pistol model-groups (Glock, Beretta, CZ). MAC-10/11, Skorpions, Mini/Micro Uzi, etc are not related to sidearm-vein handguns and thus they fill more a SMG aesthetic while still also meeting all the other criteria (pistol caliber, select fire, and many have folding or detachable stocks allowing them to be technically 'shoulder fired'). Barrel length is rather irrelevant as Tim pointed out - I'll add that longer barreled guns like the Calicos and the earliest 'sub' guns are likewise listed as SMGs as they meet the other requirements while having barrel lengths as long as many rifles. An aside, I'm not seeing the difference between Skorpions and MACs in this discussion at all. Anyway, all-told yes it is.. if not 'accurate', then certainly not improper to categorize them as such. The alternative is come up with a 'machine pistol' category which really just opens up another can of worms. As for the flamethrower, that is even less of a question mark, since as ET noted, it is indeed technically a launcher that propels flame instead of grenades or rockets. What it propels is rather irrelevant in this regard. I'd put gas dischargers under the same, also. Anyway, no one is saying they're the "same", just that they share some similar characteristics enough to be grouped together. A Blunderbuss and a AA-12 are certainly not the same except for the single fact they both fire shot - which is enough to categorize them both in one section. Now while I grant flamethrowers are generally put in 'other' sections in many other pages, those pages also don't diversify into explosives and launchers as is done here - hand grenades and rocket launchers would be lumped with them. That and the 'other' section is already used for another purpose it seems - it would be bizarre to do it that way here by my reckoning. Now I suppose the launchers and explosives could all be lumped together into an 'other' section while the existing other with the listing about the cover weapons could be renamed 'special' or something. But as said, this is part of a series with this one weapon listed a certain way and I would lean to keeping it so for the sake of consistency among the set, especially when it's not improperly listed otherwise. Bottom-line, I more agree with Tim in that this ain't worth making a stink about - and this coming from someone who has made stinks about things of this sort in the past. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 23:27, 24 December 2017 (EST)

== Possible lever gun in trailer ==

At around 43 seconds in the Announcement Trailer you can someone hunting a deer with what appears to be some sort of lever action rifle, though you can't see a lever so it might be a semi-auto sporting rifle. If someone can ID this should it be added? I don't think it's gameplay footage so I'm not sure if this counts. Also, I hate to bring up categories again but if this gun is in the game then the categories need a small overhaul. It's not really a sniper and it certainty isn't an AR. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 11:06, 28 December 2017 (EST)

== Marlin 1895 ==

What makes this a "Sniper Rifle"? You can tell from my post history that I am a bit pedantic but I don't see how an unscoped lever action rifle qualifies as a sniper. Has this just been categorised as such for simplicity's sake or am I missing something here? --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 19:45, 9 March 2018 (EST)
:I think it’s classified as so in game and can mount the sniper scopes, so that’s the reason.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 20:50, 9 March 2018 (EST)
:If it's in the sniper rifles category in the game it's probably treated as one in terms of things like the ammo it uses and the upgrades it gets. It's probably just that the low-tier sniper rifles don't come with a scope by default. Might change it to "Sniper / Marksman Rifles" I suppose. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:04, 10 March 2018 (EST)

== Moved ==

==Beretta 92FS==
The [[Beretta 92FS]] appears in the perk menu and in the game files as the "M9." Its appearance in game is as of yet unconfirmed.
[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm]]

==Luger P08==
The [[Luger P08]] appeared in pre-release media and in the game files as the "Luger." Its appearance in game is as of yet unconfirmed.
[[Image:Luger.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Luger P08 - 9x19mm]]

I'll take a look for some evidence of these later, but if it's just finding names in the game files that's not worth including. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:03, 28 March 2018 (EDT)

== Click sounds ==

Can somebody explain to me why some games such as this one and CS:GO have those ANNOYING empty click-like sounds simultaneously with each round that you fire, when your magazine is almost empty? (no matter if your weapon is full-auto or bolt-action) CoD WWII has also has this, albeit on the last round only. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 13:09, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
:It's supposed to help you keep track of your remaining ammo since the HUD element for the ammo counter is so small, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:14, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
::I had it in my mind that it's for this reason, but if it's merely for this one it's stupid (not to mention that the HUD is still visible in these games), and as I've said, really annoying (and loud compared to the firing sound), especially on automatic weapons. Now on the opposite end of the scale, I somehow remembered Operation Black Mesa, which was supposed to come out as a remake for Half-Life: Opposing Force, and where apparently there wouldn't have been any HUD at all, so you'd have your character check the chamber before reloading. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:13, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

== Lackluster gun selection ==

I was honestly hoping for more stuff and weird that not a single American made shotgun. Was hoping for the MDR or UMP, or other variants of M4s or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:34, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

Hope (County) that there will be "DLC"s like in [[GTA V]] or [[Ghost Recon: Wildlands]]. In this times game are rarely released full finished. But yeah you are right. For my opinion they should take off the "Prestige" variants and replace them with completely different guns. The U.S. of A. are the lands of guns! --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 04:48, 30 March 2018 (EDT)

== 1911 ==

I don't think the 1911 is based on any S&W model as the in-game gun has no external extractor, as all SW1911s have. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:57, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
:They probably just forgot to put it there, like the belt box on the M60. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:34, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
:: I feel like they went with a different model of Kimber for the 1911, other then the front serrations, it reminds me a lot of the Kimber Two Tone. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 22:59, 4 April 2018 (EDT)

== ArtStation for Lead Artist ==

Not sure if it would be useful, but I found the Artstation for the lead artist at Ubisoft Montreal, [https://www.artstation.com/grassam Greg Rassam], who's got many pictures of their weapon assets. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 05:57, 7 April 2018 (EDT)
:It's kind of neat to look at, but I wouldn't really use those on the page because (a) they're watermarked and (b) they're high-poly models rather than the in-game assets. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:52, 7 April 2018 (EDT)

== AR-C ==

I don't understand why the description on the page seems to imply that it's some sort of frankenrifle. To me, it seems like it was obviously supposed to be some sort of fictional custom AR15 carbine build, rather than some sort of rifle "inspired" by the AR15. --[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 15:07, 14 April 2018 (EDT)
:The word "inspired" is only used with regard to how the receiver is put together, and that's because the rear part of the receiver doesn't seem to come together in quite the same way an AR upper and lower would. The name would lead people to think it's supposed to be an ACR, it does have some gross features of an ACR, but it has features an ACR wouldn't have but an AR would. It looks rather like someone who ''almost'' knew the mechanics of the AR tried to design an AR that looked like an ACR, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 15:41, 14 April 2018 (EDT)
::I think I see your point now about the receiver. For reference, [http://ar15barrels.com/tech/armalite-dpms4.jpg| this] is an example of a slanted AR10 upper on a more typical (DPMS) curved lower.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:57, 14 April 2018 (EDT)
::: I feel like the weapons designer took some inspiration from the [https://www.evike.com/products/45913/| Mega Arms MKM Airsoft Rifle], other than the markings and rail system, the upper looks quite similar. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 00:36, 15 April 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Far Cry 5

2018-04-15T04:36:54Z

Bristow8411: /* AR-C */

Looks like UbiSoft will be revealing the gameplay on Friday (May 26th) but, for now, they have released a teaser image. Looks like the game is set in Montana and the villains are a crazy, religious cult (Like the Westboro Baptist Church, I guess).--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 14:42, 24 May 2017 (EDT)

[[File:FarCry5_Teaser_Poster.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:Wonder if the enemies will all still be running around with AK-103s and P416s as they have been in the last two games...., also, I hope they paid the NFA tax on those short-barreled carbines or we'll be ATF simulator-ing that dog.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 15:42, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
::I bet it'll be full auto weapons all around because Ubisoft, a French company with developers in Canada thinks every American is a white red neck with full auto M16s in their back yard [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:48, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
:::To be fair, a combination of black market usage, home gunsmithing/machining, and theft could net one a fair amount of fully-automatic weaponry (especially if, as seems to be the case here, the group in question effectively operates without any law enforcement supervision), but still, there have to be some limits. Full-auto converted AR-15 carbines and Luty-style SMGs I could understand; FAMASes and QLZ-87s, well, I'd be a fair bit less forgiving. Then again, this is Far Cry, so it's not exactly meant to make a whole lot of sense. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 21:27, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
::::Ubisoft just doesn't care all that much about realism and prefers to include cool guns in their games. I can't imagine the weapon set in Far Cry 5 will be any attempt at a political statement at all, though people will certainly take it as such given the new setting. It's gonna be a big amalgamation of different cool to use but ultimately probably not very realistic weapons. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 18:29, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
To be serious, aside from how this may be a dumb story plot, I do hope they use different weapon templates. I will be pissed if I see the same AK, POF 416, SIG and for the love of God, there better not be any FAMASs in this game set in America. Also, the image already confirmed RPGs...even though really no one can get them here [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:48, 24 May 2017 (EDT)
:Nah, man, they're totally gonna keep reusing weapons from previous games. I mean, it's apparently not an Ubisoft game these days if it doesn't have the Far Cry 3 P416 model in it somewhere (I'm legit surprised they haven't thrown it into R6 Siege yet), plus there's all these other models from Watch_Dogs 2 and Wildlands just begging to be put into another game or two... [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 05:54, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
::in all seriousness though I would love at least a different AK model or something. This one's gonna be set in America, give us a 5.56mm AK. Wouldn't even need much work to turn the AK-103 model into a believable AK-101, I'd like to imagine. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 05:56, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
:::The P416 actually [http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/359550/header.jpg?t=1495046645 shows up] in the initial startup screen of Siege, lol. Also, there's no reason why an AK in America has to be 5.56; it just shouldn't be an AK-100 series since those aren't exactly imported in America (Arsenal SLR is probably the closest thing).--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:43, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
I'm just hoping they're let you use more than 3 attachments in the single player.
:Honestly, it's not even the "3 attachment" trope that pisses me off the most, but it's the fact that Ubisoft actually locks some attachments to multiplayer only and you have to download a patch to be able to use them in SP. (Like the SPAS-12 suppressor and the SVD illuminated sight). Nobody even plays Far Cry multiplayer, so why even bother doing that??? --[[User:Patfast|Patfast]] ([[User talk:Patfast|talk]]) 14:25, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
::On the subject of attachments, here's hoping that extended magazines actually change the weapon models now. Now, a lot of these changes that we hope for aren't likely, but hey, a man can dream. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 20:08, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
To be fair, the RPG-7 is one of few (common) reusable rocket launcher out there, so if they're gonna include any at all (which they will, because it's Far Cry, come on), is not a poor choice. The Desert Eagle and MP5 will also likely return, seeing as how they've been in every major Far Cry game to date. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 18:23, 25 May 2017 (EDT)

I hope they really switch up the current Far Cry formula of "you must defeat le psychotic bad guy by capturing ALL the radio towers", but knowing Ubisoft, probably not. Also, $50 on there being at least one Buford T. Justice caricature of a southern police officer. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:22, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
:Nice job out there! Only 5 more bell towers to go and you can buy an RPG from an unsuspecting gun store, because obviously that's how it works in America! --[[User:Patfast|Patfast]] ([[User talk:Patfast|talk]]) 14:16, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
::They're going to set it in an Amish community, so all this will be new to them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:22, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
:::I can't find the pic, but someone did photoshop the image so it said Duck Dynasty 5 instead. That made me chuckle.--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 01:02, 26 May 2017 (EDT)

Grrrrhhh it will be a Far Cry 3/4 just with a different skin (hero join a La Resistânce group for defeat the Bad Guy/Guys)... they should had done something revolutionary like they did Far Cry 3. It didnt look the same to Far Cry 2, and if werent for the title you won't even assume they were same series...--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:42, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

Well I've pre-ordered my copy, based on the knowledge that /k/ will hunt me down and kill me if I don't screencap this. Let's just hope it doesn't have some godforsaken random multiplayer unlock system to stash weapons behind like the CoD games decided to have. And doesn't need me to grind for hours in a phone app to get one of the unique weapons, that would be nice too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:33, 25 March 2018 (EDT)

== Trailer Dropped ==
Well, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdaoe4hbMso UbiSoft] dropped the trailer and it looks good. In terms of weapons, I don't think I saw any from the previous games (thankfully), but I did see two shotguns I couldn't ID, what looks to be a PDW, an AK-74, and a VERY quick shot of a revolver. --[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 13:18, 26 May 2017 (EDT)
: Looks like there's a Remington 870 with wooden furniture as well, and another short-barreled "cruiser" pump-action with polymer furniture, Browning M2HBs on the technicals, a MAC-10/11. According to the Far Cry website, the game's AR-type gun is called the "AR-C", and doesn't look to be based on any particular AR variant (that I know of), though the selector switch looks kind of like an HK's. The sawed-off "D2 Shotgun" from Far Cry 4 appears to be returning, but with a new model this time (thank god it's not the cut down Double Rifle.) Though this time around it looks like it was manufactured that way, seeing that it has front sights and a proper finish, making it technically not "sawed-off" at all. The 1911 is also back, and also has a new model. Looks to be an amalgamation of several M1911 variants (Springfield Armory, Kimber, etc.) rather than a single one.
--[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 16:44, 26 May 2017 (EDT)

::I've never been particularly good at telling pump-action shotguns apart (unless it's a SPAS-12 or maybe an Ithaca they really all look nearly the same to me), but taking a close look at the shotgun in the trailer and comparing it to screenshots from Far Cry 4, I think it ''might'' possibly be the FC4 M133 model. Again. Damnit. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 04:15, 27 May 2017 (EDT)
:::If you watch the character trailers, you can see it's not the same model (it's especially clear at the end of the one set in the bar.) It's got a much longer barrel and a shorter magazine tube than the MP133. Which is good, because not only is reusing the models dumb, but the Baikal is also a pretty bad choice in rural America when you have the equally common and near-identical M870. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 18:09, 28 May 2017 (EDT)
::::Is the MP133 a copy of R870? From what I know, it's just further development of Baikal-81, which seems to be quite an independent development. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 09:30, 28 March 2018 (EDT)
::Here's an amalgamation of several trailers into one, giving some good shots of some of the weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxav5An1sAs [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 16:53, 26 May 2017 (EDT)
Luckily Ubi decided to get it together and give most of the weapons new models this time around. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 02:27, 28 May 2017 (EDT)
::I think that the reason the AR and 1911 don't seem to be based on any particular model might be intended to reflect how people will custom build their AR's and 1911's rather than just buying a full one off the shelf A LOT nowadays, which is something I've been wanting to see in a game for a while.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 14:35, 28 May 2017 (EDT)

== Gun Wishlist ==

What do you folks want? --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:24, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

: Well already there appears to be some kind of high caliber lever gun from what I see from the trailer. Guide gun maybe? I'd love a Browning BLR, maybe a BAR Safri as a Hunting/Sniper Rifle too. I'm fully expecting some kind of AK as well, whether it be a video game mashup or maybe even a civi variant like a Romanian WASR converted for full auto, because I highly doubt FC5 will have fire controls for selective fire. Also expecting some more Revolvers too, although I'm hoping for a more traditional .357 revolver over the .44 Magnum. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 12:08, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

:I'm just hoping we get a few of the "American classics" in there - Single Action Army, Thompson, M1 Garand, etc. Older American movie guns like the TEC-9, MP5A3, Winchester 1887, and Desert Eagle, all of which have been in FC games in the past, hopefully will reappear as well (some, like the MAC-10 are already confirmed.) --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 13:11, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

:The Coonan, though that's probably hoping for too much, considering how obscure the damned thing is. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 15:17, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
::Aaaand cue this random guy listing off a bunch of stuff that's varying degrees of strange, and will never get into the game: A Ruger PMR-30, a Chiappa Rhino, literally anything made by Mateba, a COP 357, a Taurus Judge, a Thompson Center Contender, a Magnum Research BFR, a Remington XP-100, an Arsenal AF2011A1, an HK VP70M, a Ruger 10/22, with a 25-round BX-25 magazine and an aftermarket full-auto trigger pack (yes, those exist, and they are absolutely hilarious), an American-180, an AR-18, an M2 Carbine, an STGW-57, an Ithaca MAG-10 Roadblocker, a Chiappa Triple Threat, a DP-12, an SRM M1216, a K31 with an optional aftermarket scope mount, a Mossberg 464 SPX, a Hadar II, an HK SL8, the .700 Nitro side-by-side from FC4, a Kel-Tec RFB, a Lahti L-39, an M2 Flamethrower (to replace the jury-rigged LPO-50 from the earlier games), a Manville Gas Gun, a Gyrojet, a Hawk MM1... on one hand, listing off all these random-ass weapons makes me happy; on the other hand, realizing that they'll never be in this game (and, most likely, a fair amount of them won't be in many/any games at all) makes me sad. Yours truly dishonestly, [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:45, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

:I'd kill for not the Colt Python, but its more obscure just-as-cool cousin the [[Colt Trooper Mk III]] ( 4in. blued is a must ). Pistols I would like would be the [[SIG P210]], a [[First Model CZ 75]], the [[AMC Auto Mag Pistol]], the [[Smith & Wesson 39]], and a [[Mauser HSc]]. The only other thing is to have a [[Federal Gas Riot Gun]] as a launcher. -[[User:SeptemberJack|SeptemberJack]] ([[User talk:SeptemberJack|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
::An M9A3, Browning Hi Power, Glock 19, the Judge someone mentioned earlier, the M500 (because ''Far Cry''), and the M29 for handguns/magnums. A good old tried and true AR-15 as a basic rifle would be nice, along with the Mini-14 and maybe a full-size M14 for DMRs, the expected AK and M16 variants for assault rifles, an M1903 (ala ''Far Cry 2''), M1 (which you can upgrade into an M1-C), and some form of Barret rifle for snipers, the 870, Ithaca (with mods for making it a Stakeout), KSG, and some form of Armsel drum-fed shotgun for shotguns, and the tried and true M249, M60, and M2 for machine guns of various flavors. I'd also like to see the M79 come back from ''Far Cry 2'' because it adds such a new dynamic to gunplay. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 22:30, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
:::For the record, the M79 was also in ''Far Cry 4'', and it was awesome there too, I'd love for it to make another return. Personally, I'd also like to see a FAL of some variety (preferably a full-size model just so they at least have to put ''some'' work into it instead of just copying over the ''Future Soldier''/''Blacklist'' SA58 and calling it a day) and some more revolvers. Maybe a Charter Arms Bulldog, they could make the Signature version into the ''Blade Runner'' gun. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 00:34, 30 May 2017 (EDT)
::::If they do that, it needs to fire rifle rounds, ''a la'' ''Fallout New Vegas.''--[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 22:52, 3 June 2017 (EDT)

They should add civilian variants of military guns like the [[ARX-160|ARX-100]], the Texan-buiod [[MSBS]],[[SCAR-L]], the [[SIG-Sauer P320]] that is now standard of US Army,Glocks,[[SR-47]]...--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 07:51, 30 May 2017 (EDT)

I wish for an actual regular Glock. G17, or G19 and it isn't a full auto Glock as the default. Make the full auto Glock a special gun you get later. For handguns, an M&P series, maybe in .40 since your character will be a cop of sorts or LEO. For new gun flavors, I want to see the MPX, Scorpion Evo 3, MDR. Let's see some Kel-tec guns like their KSG, even though it isn't really a new hotness anymore or the RFB or the RDB. There are so many guns in America to choose from. I want to see an SKS or something [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:43, 30 May 2017 (EDT)

Personally I'd love to see some factual basis for the guns in this game. Having the likes of say an ultimax or PKP say just doesn't fit. I'd also like say a Krebs or Rifle Dynamics AK. Both are good US made platforms and not seen in a VG before. Also ditch the staple weapons. No desert eagle, no P416, no AK103 variant.
A decent domestic AR15 variant would be nice as opposed to the standard M4/M16 we see from typical VG. Also add a glock, a SIG and a SCAR H/RFB instead of the ACE.--[[User:Forrest1985|Forrest1985]] ([[User talk:Forrest1985|talk]]) 13:26, 2 June 2017 (EDT)
:The Desert Eagle would make more sense in the American setting than any of the other Far Cry games, ironically enough. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 14:10, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

The 2016 version would be awesome.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 15:11, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

I wouldn't mind them bringing back the Tec-9. Add a MAC-10 with the big old suppressor would be cool. I seriously doubt a non-American company like Ubisoft to be aware of specific custom gun makers like Rifle Dynamics or Taran Tactical unless those companies reach out to Ubisoft to have their guns represented or someone on the design team reach out to them [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:56, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

Mac-10 in place of tec9 from FC4 wold be nice with the huge suppressor as the signiture edition. With regards to desert eagle, its really accurate but for me its an overused hollywood wonder weapon bit like Glock 18. I'd prefer a nice S&W or Colt revolver in the classic VG "hand cannon" slot instead. With regards to RD, Krebs, or TT I am sure Ubisoft have google? Activision seems to make great use of it for their weapon choses. It was my personal wishlist hence the addition of an american based AK designer. If they wanted an authentic setting rather than just re-use guns from R6 siege and watch dogs then perhaps they could have done some research? I do love Ubisoft but they are definitely following the COD rinse and repeat when it comes to firearms. A classic 1911 would be nice perhaps with the back story that it was the main characters Grandads piece from WW2. --[[User:Forrest1985|Forrest1985]] ([[User talk:Forrest1985|talk]]) 16:24, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

== Screenshots ==
https://postimg.org/image/jatr0x2id/ & https://postimg.org/image/hkapzfkz9/

Ubisoft uploaded a few screenshots to their website, these are high def variants. They look doctored to me, but assuming this is anything like what the game will be (ha ha), there are a few things that stick out: the WW2 plane in the second image is definitely a frankenplane, a bastard child of a Ju 87 and Bf 109 by the looks of it. It looks like the rear facing MG15 has been replaced by a Browning M2, or maybe an AN/M2 (something I'm okay with, because an actual firing MG15 would make very little sense.) Also, in the first image, you can see the ally on the right has an AR-type that's very similar to the one the player & enemies are holding, but it's a longer-barreled variant and has a custom paint job (and no sights at all, ugh.) This, combined with the fact that there are even more AR-types shown in promo images or trailers makes me think that weapon customization will actually be somewhat extensive in this game, rather than the "two attachments per gun" thing Far Cry 3 & 4 had going. It COULD just be a signature rifle or something, but I'm willing to bet it might be more. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 11:44, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

I can already tell the AR has the front sight on backwards...like the last game. The rail kinda reminds me of Daniel Defense's new M-Lok rail [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:57, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

== E3 footage ==

There's a revolver, AR-15-based assault and sniper rifles, a shotgun, an AK, and several pistols from what I can see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNbtgJreV80 --[[User:MJ79|MJ79]] ([[User talk:MJ79|talk]]) 18:01, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
:No video anymore, it's been taken down. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 23:02, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
::https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX_h8rneDxU Pretty sure this is the same video as the one taken down.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 00:36, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
: Said sniper rifle has a telescoping that's fully retracted. What exactly did the developers think the lever was for? --[[User:VladVladson|VladVladson]] ([[User talk:VladVladson|talk]]) 04:08, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
: Well, the chick shooting it does look kinda short, maybe it sits better on her shoulder like that. I mean, that ''is'' the idea behind adjustable stocks after all. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 04:44, 13 June 2017 (EDT)

== Sad News... ==

New firearms confirmed are : Fabarm FP6,M4A1(yeah),M11A1 variant,MBP.50 (high caliber rifle).
Sad News?

Suspance...

Another bit..

Most of them are recycled. So we get the usual arsenal. AGAIN. So pissed.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 05:11, 12 July 2017 (EDT)

:: Where did you get any of this information? I haven't seen anything recycled thus far, except for the Vz.61 Skorpion on the game's expanded cover which is clearly the same as the one in Ghost Recon: Wildlands (or at least rendered the same.) But even that doesn't confirm it'll be ingame that way, or in the game at all for that matter. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 10:18, 22 July 2017 (EDT)

I get it on the wikia.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 03:09, 4 September 2017 (EDT)

:: The Far Cry wiki is poorly maintained and none of the recycled guns listed there are sourced, nor have they appeared in any promo material I could find. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 13:40, 17 September 2017 (EDT)

== Screenshots ==

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_car_293319.jpg
I can't figure out what the hell the gun in the technical is, though it kinda looks like an M60D, and the guy in the Mustang has what looks like a FABARM with wood furniture and rifle sights.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_coop_293329.jpg
That looks like the original 9mm MAC-10, and the guys on the ground are probably using the AR-C they mentioned earlier.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_dog_293337.jpg
Once again, the AR-C and a guy with only one kneecap.

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/ubicomstatic/en-US/global/media/FC5_Screenshot_E3_cult_293335.jpg
And the M1911 again, I thought it had a tan frame, but that's just the lightning.

Question, since the trailer dropped already, shouldn't we make the page and not just stick around here? --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 18:30, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

== Weapon classifications ==

Is it accurate to list machine pistols as SMGs and the flamethrower as a launcher? --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 11:31, 24 December 2017 (EST)

:The Skorpion is called an SMG as often as it's called a machine pistol, and a flamethrower is a launcher. It launches flames. More to the point flamethrowers usually get put in launchers because it's rare for there to be more than one of them in a given work so giving them their own category is a bit silly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:46, 24 December 2017 (EST)

::Sure,I can see how the Skorpion qualifies but not the MAC. I don't see any reason why flamethrowercan't be categorised as"other". --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 12:52, 24 December 2017 (EST)

:::MAC-10 is also classified as an SMG at least as often as it's called a machine pistol. SMG at least benefits from having a real definition (pistol calibre automatic) while with machine pistol once you get outside auto versions of actual pistols you're left spinning in the wind mumbling about form factors. And every other Far Cry page lists the flamethrower under launchers, it's something of a standard. I don't think it's worth fretting over. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:05, 24 December 2017 (EST)
::::Well as far as I can tell an SMG is an automatic or select fire weapon with a carbine length barrel and chambered ina pistol cartridge. That description doesn't fit either gun. Also I still think it's wrong to list a flamethrower as a launcher. I can't be the only one who thinks it's bizarre that liquid propellants and rockets are the same according to this page. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 16:50, 24 December 2017 (EST)
:::::Naw, that definition doesn't work because there's some SMGs that ''don't'' have carbine-length barrels: for example, the TDI Vector's barrel is only 5.5 in, only half an inch longer than an M1911's, while an MP5K's barrel is ''shorter'' than an M1911's at 4.5 in, which is the same length as a Skorpion's and 0.01 in longer than a MAC-10's. [[Kedr PP-91]] only has a 4.7 inch barrel, too.
:::::The LPO-50 specifically is a weapon that uses an explosive charge to fire, so is basically a gun that happens to fire a projectile that's liquid. Calling it a launcher is actually completely accurate to how it operates. Also as I said, it's not really worth worrying about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:02, 24 December 2017 (EST)
:::::: Bah, we've long rolled machine pistols into SMG categories with a few exceptions those being the rather few automatic variants of otherwise semiauto-only pistol model-groups (Glock, Beretta, CZ). MAC-10/11, Skorpions, Mini/Micro Uzi, etc are not related to sidearm-vein handguns and thus they fill more a SMG aesthetic while still also meeting all the other criteria (pistol caliber, select fire, and many have folding or detachable stocks allowing them to be technically 'shoulder fired'). Barrel length is rather irrelevant as Tim pointed out - I'll add that longer barreled guns like the Calicos and the earliest 'sub' guns are likewise listed as SMGs as they meet the other requirements while having barrel lengths as long as many rifles. An aside, I'm not seeing the difference between Skorpions and MACs in this discussion at all. Anyway, all-told yes it is.. if not 'accurate', then certainly not improper to categorize them as such. The alternative is come up with a 'machine pistol' category which really just opens up another can of worms. As for the flamethrower, that is even less of a question mark, since as ET noted, it is indeed technically a launcher that propels flame instead of grenades or rockets. What it propels is rather irrelevant in this regard. I'd put gas dischargers under the same, also. Anyway, no one is saying they're the "same", just that they share some similar characteristics enough to be grouped together. A Blunderbuss and a AA-12 are certainly not the same except for the single fact they both fire shot - which is enough to categorize them both in one section. Now while I grant flamethrowers are generally put in 'other' sections in many other pages, those pages also don't diversify into explosives and launchers as is done here - hand grenades and rocket launchers would be lumped with them. That and the 'other' section is already used for another purpose it seems - it would be bizarre to do it that way here by my reckoning. Now I suppose the launchers and explosives could all be lumped together into an 'other' section while the existing other with the listing about the cover weapons could be renamed 'special' or something. But as said, this is part of a series with this one weapon listed a certain way and I would lean to keeping it so for the sake of consistency among the set, especially when it's not improperly listed otherwise. Bottom-line, I more agree with Tim in that this ain't worth making a stink about - and this coming from someone who has made stinks about things of this sort in the past. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 23:27, 24 December 2017 (EST)

== Possible lever gun in trailer ==

At around 43 seconds in the Announcement Trailer you can someone hunting a deer with what appears to be some sort of lever action rifle, though you can't see a lever so it might be a semi-auto sporting rifle. If someone can ID this should it be added? I don't think it's gameplay footage so I'm not sure if this counts. Also, I hate to bring up categories again but if this gun is in the game then the categories need a small overhaul. It's not really a sniper and it certainty isn't an AR. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 11:06, 28 December 2017 (EST)

== Marlin 1895 ==

What makes this a "Sniper Rifle"? You can tell from my post history that I am a bit pedantic but I don't see how an unscoped lever action rifle qualifies as a sniper. Has this just been categorised as such for simplicity's sake or am I missing something here? --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 19:45, 9 March 2018 (EST)
:I think it’s classified as so in game and can mount the sniper scopes, so that’s the reason.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 20:50, 9 March 2018 (EST)
:If it's in the sniper rifles category in the game it's probably treated as one in terms of things like the ammo it uses and the upgrades it gets. It's probably just that the low-tier sniper rifles don't come with a scope by default. Might change it to "Sniper / Marksman Rifles" I suppose. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:04, 10 March 2018 (EST)

== Moved ==

==Beretta 92FS==
The [[Beretta 92FS]] appears in the perk menu and in the game files as the "M9." Its appearance in game is as of yet unconfirmed.
[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm]]

==Luger P08==
The [[Luger P08]] appeared in pre-release media and in the game files as the "Luger." Its appearance in game is as of yet unconfirmed.
[[Image:Luger.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Luger P08 - 9x19mm]]

I'll take a look for some evidence of these later, but if it's just finding names in the game files that's not worth including. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:03, 28 March 2018 (EDT)

== Click sounds ==

Can somebody explain to me why some games such as this one and CS:GO have those ANNOYING empty click-like sounds simultaneously with each round that you fire, when your magazine is almost empty? (no matter if your weapon is full-auto or bolt-action) CoD WWII has also has this, albeit on the last round only. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 13:09, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
:It's supposed to help you keep track of your remaining ammo since the HUD element for the ammo counter is so small, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:14, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
::I had it in my mind that it's for this reason, but if it's merely for this one it's stupid (not to mention that the HUD is still visible in these games), and as I've said, really annoying (and loud compared to the firing sound), especially on automatic weapons. Now on the opposite end of the scale, I somehow remembered Operation Black Mesa, which was supposed to come out as a remake for Half-Life: Opposing Force, and where apparently there wouldn't have been any HUD at all, so you'd have your character check the chamber before reloading. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:13, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

== Lackluster gun selection ==

I was honestly hoping for more stuff and weird that not a single American made shotgun. Was hoping for the MDR or UMP, or other variants of M4s or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:34, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

Hope (County) that there will be "DLC"s like in [[GTA V]] or [[Ghost Recon: Wildlands]]. In this times game are rarely released full finished. But yeah you are right. For my opinion they should take off the "Prestige" variants and replace them with completely different guns. The U.S. of A. are the lands of guns! --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 04:48, 30 March 2018 (EDT)

== 1911 ==

I don't think the 1911 is based on any S&W model as the in-game gun has no external extractor, as all SW1911s have. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:57, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
:They probably just forgot to put it there, like the belt box on the M60. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:34, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
:: I feel like they went with a different model of Kimber for the 1911, other then the front serrations, it reminds me a lot of the Kimber Two Tone. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 22:59, 4 April 2018 (EDT)

== ArtStation for Lead Artist ==

Not sure if it would be useful, but I found the Artstation for the lead artist at Ubisoft Montreal, [https://www.artstation.com/grassam Greg Rassam], who's got many pictures of their weapon assets. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 05:57, 7 April 2018 (EDT)
:It's kind of neat to look at, but I wouldn't really use those on the page because (a) they're watermarked and (b) they're high-poly models rather than the in-game assets. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:52, 7 April 2018 (EDT)

== AR-C ==

I don't understand why the description on the page seems to imply that it's some sort of frankenrifle. To me, it seems like it was obviously supposed to be some sort of fictional custom AR15 carbine build, rather than some sort of rifle "inspired" by the AR15. --[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 15:07, 14 April 2018 (EDT)
:The word "inspired" is only used with regard to how the receiver is put together, and that's because the rear part of the receiver doesn't seem to come together in quite the same way an AR upper and lower would. The name would lead people to think it's supposed to be an ACR, it does have some gross features of an ACR, but it has features an ACR wouldn't have but an AR would. It looks rather like someone who ''almost'' knew the mechanics of the AR tried to design an AR that looked like an ACR, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 15:41, 14 April 2018 (EDT)
::I think I see your point now about the receiver. For reference, [http://ar15barrels.com/tech/armalite-dpms4.jpg| this] is an example of a slanted AR10 upper on a more typical (DPMS) curved lower.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:57, 14 April 2018 (EDT)
::: I feel like the weapons designer took some inspiration from the [https://www.ptssyndicate.com/products/pts-mega-arms-mkm-ar15| Mega Arms MKM Airsoft Rifle], other than the markings and rail system, the upper looks quite similar. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 00:36, 15 April 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Far Cry 5

2018-04-05T02:59:26Z

Bristow8411: /* 1911 */

Talk:John Wick: Chapter 2

2017-02-25T23:29:53Z

Bristow8411: /* Just saw it */

SO MUCH YES --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 21:24, 6 October 2016 (EDT)
:I KNOW!!! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:43, 7 October 2016 (EDT)
::The hype is real!--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 20:44, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:::And then there's me: I think the film looks generic.--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 21:17, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
::::It really is, but it's not how original a story can be. The best thing you can do to a generic type of character is to have pretty good acting and for us here, awesome gun play and John Wick is awesome at the gun play. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:59, 12 October 2016 (EDT)
So, any special reason he's using some fancy Glock and AR-15 from a company no one has heard of? Why not give him his old P30 and HK416 back? Why do armorers keep buying overpriced Glocks with fancy aftermarket parts?--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 23:35, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:::Taran Tactical isn't an unknown company. It might not be as famous or infamous as Salient, but it's known enough in some circles. They also trained Will Smith for Suicide Squad. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:11, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure Keanu Reeves trained with them for the movie.--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:35, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
::I've heard somewhere that Keanu Reeves has some sort of share in Taran Tactical. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:12, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
:[https://www.facebook.com/TaranTactical/videos/1129178030434266/ Yep]. They even had a [https://www.facebook.com/TaranTactical/posts/1291057160913018 contest perfect for us].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:39, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
::Here's the same [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpr8oqyjKIc video]on youtube for those who loathe facebook. Anyway, i think those tacticooled glocks sorta fit in a silly movie like John Wick. Then again, the only other movies where i've ever seen these types of pimped guns are the Transformers movies and 13 hours.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:23, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
:::It makes a sort of sense in a way of people of expensive groups will buy expensive things, including guns if need be. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 09:59, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
::: One of the unseen henchmen on the poster (on the right) appears to be holding a P30L with the same compensator from the first film. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 11:00, 9 October 2016 (EDT)

Here's another vid of him training with Aaron Cohen, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RKISkjMtPU [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:00, 12 October 2016 (EDT)

== Please help ID ==

Please help ID this launcher. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 14:30, 19 December 2016 (EST)
[[File:JW2 304.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:JW2 305.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
::Looks like an [[ARWEN 37]] to me.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 15:09, 19 December 2016 (EST)
::: It was definitely an ARWEN 37, even got to see the loading process. --[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 07:39, 13 February 2017 (EST)

== Glock ==
Looks like the Glock that was used in this film is currently on display at SHOT Show:
https://scontent.fdet1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15977767_10154301140996134_2975412249705260393_n.jpg?oh=e720456e623db93a6644ca3c46a432c9&oe=591FE97A

[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 12:05, 19 January 2017 (EST)
:Cool--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:38, 19 January 2017 (EST)
::Apparently he's also carrying a Taran Glock 26 too, if Glock themselves are to be [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/26/glock-movies-shot-2017/ believed.]--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 10:07, 27 January 2017 (EST)

:There's a short clip ad of the scene where John Wick talks to the gun guy about what gun recommendations. He suggested a Glock 34, a Glock 26 as well as an "AR-15" and Benelli M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:57, 27 January 2017 (EST)
::Got a link to that clip?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 11:36, 27 January 2017 (EST)
::I've been trying to look for it, but it only appears as an ad every time I watch a Youtube vid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:28, 27 January 2017 (EST)

Nevermind. Found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgxWQADcWXI [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:29, 27 January 2017 (EST)
:That's neat. I guess all those guns have some Taran tactical thing going on with them...--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:18, 27 January 2017 (EST)

== Armory ==

[[File:JW2Armory1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:JW2Armory2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Grabbed a couple more shots of the armory from the trailer. Does anyone know what the rifles that are hanging horizontally are? I can't place them, and it's bugging me.
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 11:45, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:Beretta AR70/90?--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:16, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:: Yep, seems like a AR70/90--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] ([[User talk:Flavio|talk]]) 13:56, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:::Looks like the 90 to be specific.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:31, 3 February 2017 (EST)

: In Picture #1 I see several Glock 17s on the top shelf and what looks like a Glock 17L on the very far right. The shelf below that has a compact SIG P220 series handgun (not sure which), a VP9, and two empty spots which is likely where John got his two Glocks below. The one below that has two Beretta 92 handguns, and another that I can't identify (looked ''kind of'' like a compact Walther P99 or Springfield XD but I don't think it is.) The bottom shelf is mostly unidentifiable but the one on the furthest right looks kind of like a HK Mark 23 to me. Leaning against that shelf is an M79. The right most shelf has more Glock 17s, two two-tone SIG-Sauer P226s, and a Beretta 93R. There's another 93R and a Px4 on the one below that.
: In Picture #2 I see MP5Ks, two of which have compensators attached and several Uzis/Mini-Uzis. To the right of those are a bunch of MP5s, some of which have Surefire lights installed. Can't identify the shotguns, sadly.
--[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 21:02, 3 February 2017 (EST)
::There's also a Beretta PM12 in between the MP5Ks and Uzis. Most of the guns on the bottom are hard to ID, but there's a couple of obvious M4/M16 variants.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 10:58, 5 February 2017 (EST)
:::Two of those tall shotguns are Benelli M4s, and it looks like there are two SG553s behind them, in addition to regular Beretta AR 70s.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 11:47, 5 February 2017 (EST)

== Just saw it ==

So let me start by saying that if you're a fan of the first, chances are you'll love this one, I did. The action was beautifully choreographed and shot, and the world of the continental was expanded upon really well. Now for the guns I saw. Bear with me because the movie moved really fast and a lot of guns were used, but this is what I remember.

-HK P30L - Same gun from the first movie, used by John in the opening fight briefly. Later seen buried under John's floor.

-Kel-Tech KSG - Seen briefly being buried underneath John's floor in the beginning.

-Coharie Arms CA-415 - Buried alongside the KSG and another gun I couldn't identify.

-Glock 26 - Also seen alongside the P30L being buried.

-ARWEN 37 - Used by Santino in the beginning of the film. Portrayed as an explosive grenade launcher.

-Glock 34 - Main sidearm used by John in Rome, Had either the TTI or Salient modification. It was specifically referred to as the Glock 34 by "The Sommelier" (armorer). He also mentioned it's Austrian roots as well as the German roots of the P30.

-Glock 27 - Also used by John in Rome. Also provided by The Sommelier. It may have been a Glock 26 but I seem to remember him calling it the 27, I could be wrong though. Used in a fistfight with Cassien.

-Benelli M4 - Also used by John in Rome. Also provided by The Sommelier. Referred to by name and it's Italian roots are directly mentioned.

-TTI TR-1 - Final weapon used by John in Rome (I believe). Once again, provided by The Sommelier. He refers to it as an AR-15, and the specifications of it's attachments were mentioned but unfortunately I cannot remember them. Also appears to be used by Ares men in the final battle

-Kimber Warrior - Used by John as well as countless other assassins including Ares ([[Ruby Rose]]). Seen in both suppressed and unsuppressed modes, both of which are used by John. The Bowery King ([[Laurence Fishburne]]) provides one to John before the climax. He specifically refers to it as a "Kimber 1911" and also mentions it's seven round capacity, which also annoys John. The final gun John handles in the film.

-Grey Glock? - Used by Cassien ([[Common]]) while pursuing John through New York. Appeared to be a grey Colored Glock with a matching grey suppressor. Could be a custom gun or could be something entirely different, I didn't get a clear look at it.

-Various handguns - Used by multiple assassins attempting to kill John in New York. Appeared to be an assortment of Glocks, Kimbers, and HKs in suppressed and unsuppressed forms. Didn't get a clear view of them. John procures many of them from the assassins he kills throughout.

-Beretta Cheetah - Appeared to be used by one of The Bowery King's men who saves John. Seen suppressed. Also used, unsuppressed, by Santino D'Antonio ([[Riccardo Scamarcio]])

-Bowery King arsenal - Various weapons, many the same as seen earlier in the film, however I did notice what appeared to be an RPG-7 in one of the racks.

-Glock 17 - Carried by nearly all of Santino's men. Multiple are used by John in the finale, with him procuring a new one every time he runs out of ammo in the previous one.

-Sig SG 550 and 552 - Used by Ares' men in the finale. Some appeared to lack rear iron sights.

Thats about it. Cassien used a handgun during his fight with John in Rome, but I never got a clear view of it. Also in the finale Ares's men used a collection of AR-15s and I believe a few SMGs. I couldn't quite tell what models the SMGs were, however they appeared to be HKs and also lacked rear iron sights, though I could just be rememebering the Sigs and imagining that they used SMGs (Quite likely to be honest, It was a late showing and I'm fairly tired). I'm sure I missed several guns, as like I said this was a gun heavy movie, however i will comment that many of the same models appeared repeatedly, probably props being reused. Both The Bowery King and The Sommelier had large arsenals with numerous guns I was unable to Identify. Sorry for missing some things, the movie moved at a breakneck pace and I didn't always have time to appreciate the action on screen and notice what guns we're being used.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|One shot is all it takes.]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 05:09, 10 February 2017 (EST)
:The Sommelier mentions that Wick's AR-15 has a Trijicon Accupoint, but I don't remember him specifying the exact model. Also, regarding The Sommeliers arsenal, I believe the rifles in the background are Beretta AR70/90's.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 17:43, 13 February 2017 (EST)

I just saw it and I am pretty sure Cassien's grey glock was actually an Arsenal Strike One, It had a distinctive step down forward of the ejection port. You get a short but clear view of it when Cassien does an ammo check in the subway shootout. --[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 14:34, 12 February 2017 (EST)

We also need a photo of TTI's Glock 34 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:23, 14 February 2017 (EST)

:They showed them off at the SHOT Show
:TTI Glock 34
:http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/20170117_124643-600x537.jpg
:TTI Glock 26
:http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/20170117_124607-600x341.jpg
Also there was a picture (cut away drawing?) of a H&K MG4 with a G36 Hensoldt AG Sight/carrying handle in Laurence Fishburne's office.
:--[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 15:40, 15 February 2017 (EST)

The 1911 that Ares uses is a S&W 1911 either a PD or an SC model I'm leaning towards a PD full size. Also the gun John uses at the very end seems to be some kind of Kimber with a custom compensator. [[User:Serpico1911|Serpico1911]] ([[User talk:Serpico1911|talk]] 03:38, 15 February 2017 (CST)
:Finally got to see it. To think they weren't going to show this movie in sweden! Thank god they did! It blew my dick off! Liked alot of things in it, but one thing that stood out to me was that i've never seen an action movie like this were the main character reloads as often as he does. Also, don't know if this is the case, but i watched this with a friend and he counted that in the Museum scene (when Wick is switching between guns left and right) he only shot the various pistols he picked up ten times before they ran out.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:07, 24 February 2017 (EST)
::Just saw it too, my jaw hit the floor when Keanu did the [[Killing Floor 2]] style ''one-handed'' brass check on a 1911 before entering the hall of mirrors towards the end.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 01:31, 25 February 2017 (EST)
:::The only other movie ive seen someone do that style of brass check before is The way of the gun. Can't think of any movie where someone brass checked guns as often as this one--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:28, 25 February 2017 (EST)
::::Only movies that come to mind for brass checking is pretty much anything by Michael Mann, particularly Heat, but not as much as this film. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 18:29, 25 February 2017 (EST)

Talk:Chicago P.D. - Season 3

2016-09-18T08:55:31Z

Bristow8411:

== Compact 1911 ==

I'm not entirely sure that the gun shown under the Colt Officers ACP is indeed an ACP. Just from looking at the picture of it on the table, the pistol in the episode has different sights, a different hammer, ambi safety and the extended magwell, and while I'm not entirely sure, I think the slide serrations are angled and not straight and there appears to be some writing on the slide itself, I just can't make it out.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 21:38, 17 September 2016 (EDT)

Derek Keyes ([[Bokeem Woodbine]]) is seen using a Compact pistol, sometimes with a suppressor.
[[File:CPDS3E01 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The suppressed pistol is drawn in "Life is Fluid" (S3E01).]]
[[File:CPDS3E01 10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closeup of the suppressed pistol in "Life is Fluid" (S3E01).]]
[[File:CPDS3E01 19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The pistol on the desk in "Life is Fluid" (S3E01).]]

It's almost certainly a [[Springfield Armory Ultra Compact]] variant. On another note, I'm not sure the revolver is a Model 629 snub, I think's it's more likely a [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] snub. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 02:39, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

I don't know a large amount about short barreled models of 1911s, seeing as in Canada we really can't own them, but don't they all have the Springfield Armory logo on the slide? I don't see it on any of the photos [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 04:53, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

Talk:Chicago P.D. - Season 3

2016-09-18T08:53:51Z

Bristow8411: /* Compact 1911 */

== Compact 1911 ==

I'm not entirely sure that the gun shown under the Colt Officers ACP is indeed an ACP. Just from looking at the picture of it on the table, the pistol in the episode has different sights, a different hammer, ambi safety and the extended magwell, and while I'm not entirely sure, I think the slide serrations are angled and not straight and there appears to be some writing on the slide itself, I just can't make it out.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 21:38, 17 September 2016 (EDT)

Derek Keyes ([[Bokeem Woodbine]]) is seen using a Compact pistol, sometimes with a suppressor.
[[File:CPDS3E01 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The suppressed pistol is drawn in "Life is Fluid" (S3E01).]]
[[File:CPDS3E01 10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closeup of the suppressed pistol in "Life is Fluid" (S3E01).]]
[[File:CPDS3E01 19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The pistol on the desk in "Life is Fluid" (S3E01).]]

It's almost certainly a [[Springfield Armory Ultra Compact]] variant. On another note, I'm not sure the revolver is a Model 629 snub, I think's it's more likely a [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] snub. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 02:39, 18 September 2016 (EDT)
I don't know a large amount about short barreled models of 1911s, seeing as in Canada we really can't own them, but don't they all have the Springfield Armory logo on the slide? I don't see it on any of the photos [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 04:53, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

Talk:Chicago P.D. - Season 3

2016-09-18T08:53:36Z

Bristow8411: /* Compact 1911 */

== Compact 1911 ==

I'm not entirely sure that the gun shown under the Colt Officers ACP is indeed an ACP. Just from looking at the picture of it on the table, the pistol in the episode has different sights, a different hammer, ambi safety and the extended magwell, and while I'm not entirely sure, I think the slide serrations are angled and not straight and there appears to be some writing on the slide itself, I just can't make it out.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 21:38, 17 September 2016 (EDT)

Derek Keyes ([[Bokeem Woodbine]]) is seen using a Compact pistol, sometimes with a suppressor.
[[File:CPDS3E01 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The suppressed pistol is drawn in "Life is Fluid" (S3E01).]]
[[File:CPDS3E01 10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closeup of the suppressed pistol in "Life is Fluid" (S3E01).]]
[[File:CPDS3E01 19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The pistol on the desk in "Life is Fluid" (S3E01).]]

It's almost certainly a [[Springfield Armory Ultra Compact]] variant. On another note, I'm not sure the revolver is a Model 629 snub, I think's it's more likely a [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] snub. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 02:39, 18 September 2016 (EDT)
I don't know a large amount about short barreled models of 1911s, seeing as in Canada we really can't own them, but don't they all have the Springfield Armory logo on the slide? I don't see it on any of the photos [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 04:53, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

Talk:Chicago P.D. - Season 3

2016-09-18T01:38:58Z

Bristow8411: /* Compact 1911 */ new section

Talk:The World Is Not Enough

2016-09-06T03:48:57Z

Bristow8411: /* Banker Handguns */ new section

__TOC__ 

=Additional Images=
[[File:TWINE Ult.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]

=Discussion=
I saw this movie on BBC America yesterday and wish I had this on DVD (I have it somewhere on VHS), this page needs to be screencapped. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:It's on my list, I'll try to have it sometime this week. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]

who puts a scope on a G36 when is has a built in scope.
:To get a higher magnification than the standard scope, the built in scope only has a 3.5 magnification. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:25, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

==Moved from Main Page==
Bond tells M he knows the sniper was "professional", even though most seasoned snipers wouldn't use the laser like the Cigar Girl does (because a laser shoots a direct line a bullet fires in an arc and at distance lasers aren't affected by wind, or barometric pressure).
:It also gives away your position big time. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:25, 4 September 2011 (CDT)
::I'm pretty sure she wasn't at enough of a distance either time for bullet drop to be an issue. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:42, 6 September 2011 (CDT)
:::But it's still incorrect for a sniper to use a laser sight. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:14, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
:::: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LaserSight It's a cliche]. Roll with it.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:15, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::I know, I'm just sayn'. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::She wasn't the sniper Bond was talking about, Renard was the one who shot the banker's henchman. He used a lser sight to send a message to Bond. [[User:TheHeartbreakKid15|TheHeartbreakKid15]] 16:05, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Yeah, the only reason a sniper ''might'' (and I use that term lightly) use a laser sight is for message sending/intimidation. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:56, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

==Additional Screenshots==

[[Image:Twine-wp99b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Bond prepares to detonate his P99 as he mentions his "hidden assets".]]

[[Image:Twine-wp99c.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Bond threatens Zukovsky.]]

[[Image:Twine-wp99e.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Bond shoots Davidov.]]
[[Image:Twine-wp99f.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Bond fires his P99 from the trunk.]]

[[Image:Twine-wp99i.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Bond questions Renard before he tries to shoot him.]]
[[Image:Twine-wp99h.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Bond puts his P99 to Renard's head.]]
[[Image:Twine-wp99g.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Bond greets Renard with his P99.]]
[[Image:Twine-wp99m.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Bond trades shots with Renard's men. Note that the slide jumps 3 times in this shot, but only 2 gunshots are heard coming from Bond's P99]]
[[Image:Twine-wp99k.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Bond's suppressed P99 lays on the ground.]]

[[Image:Twine-m1911b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Bond holds the M1911A1 as the banker is stabbed in the neck by the "Cigar Girl".]]

==Moved from Main Page==
:Pretty sure these are AKMSs, not AKS-74Us. The barrels are too long and of course they are underfolders. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:Guard on the left holds AKMS, but guard on the right holds AKS-74U. - [[User:RedCharger|RedCharger]]
::The guard on the right holds an AKS-74, not an AKS-74U. The barrel is way too long to be an 'U'. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 00:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

== Street Sweeper ==

OK, to head off a potential edit war re: Street Sweeper vs. Striker, can someone get a screenshot of the weapon when it's on the deck? I would do it myself but I can't find my brother's copy of the DVD.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:03, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

==Not a Llama M82 ==
[[Image:Twine-beretta1.jpg|thumb|none|599px|Basque Police officers with replica guns.]]
The guns used by the "spanish police" are not Llama M82 (note the absence of a slide-mounted safety. Actually, they are not real guns, but blank-firing replicas. Due to strict spanish gun laws, replica guns are usually used in movies filmed in Spain. By the way, the officers are members of the Basque police (or "Ertzaintza" in Basque languague). Spain's territory is divided in several regions and some of them have their own police force. It would be wrong to show the Basque Police carrying the Llama M82. This gun was adopted by the Spanish Army, but it has not been used by any police force in Spain. The Basque police, when the movie was filmed, used the Star model 30 (the alloy framed model 30-PK, I think). Star has been out of business for about 20 years, and most police forces in Spain have replaced their pistols for european-made handguns. The National police replaced the Star 28 PK with the Heckler & Koch USP compact; The Guardia Civil now carries the Beretta 92 FS instead of the Star BM; The Catalonian police uses the Walther p-99 and Heckler & Koch USP compact instead of the Star 30 and Astra 960 revolver. I think that the Basque Police now issues the Heckler & Koch USP compact, although I'm not sure.

==Recent Screencap Additions/Changes==
It seems a major load of screencaps have been uploaded just recently. Many do look a bit better than the older caps but some of them aren't good images and many of them seem to be there simply to show parts of the story or emphasize a scene rather than give good showings of the gun. Also, some sections now also have what seem to be too many images for their respective entries as well. More than that, it seems these are all new screencaps uploaded fresh, and NOT as updates of old images, meaning there's now a whole set of screencaps floating around and not linked to this page that someone will have to find and sort through to either keep or mark for deletion (a few duplicates are here on the talk page, but as you'll see from the logs there's a big load of images that have been added). I'd make a note on the talk page of the user who did this but I don't think that's my place - still, something that should be noted/addressed. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 14:59, 1 June 2016 (EDT)

== Banker Handguns ==

Looking through the images again, the 1911 style pistol that Bond uses in the Bank in Spain looks more like a Star to me then a Colt. There's a lot of writing on the slide and the hammer is down goes past the grip safety, which does not happen on my 1911. However I'm not entirely sure as I have been wrong in identifying handguns before, so if a more experienced user could tell me whether I'm right or wrong, that would be great [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 23:48, 5 September 2016 (EDT)

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

2016-08-26T01:31:51Z

Bristow8411: /* Springfield Operator */

{{Infobox Video Game|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
|picture = MGS4_North_American_Cover.jpg
|caption =
|series= Metal Gear
|date= 2008
|developer=Kojima Productions
|platforms=Playstation 3
|publisher= Konami
|genre=Action
}}

'''''Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots''''' is a 2008 stealth-action / third-person shooter video game directed by Hideo Kojima, developed by Kojima Productions and published by Konami. It concludes the saga of the character Solid Snake (now known as Old Snake). Set in the year 2014 following the events of the previous games, the storyline takes Snake through a series of warzones where rebels are fighting hired PMC soldiers as part of an ongoing "War Economy" engineered by a mysterious organization known as "The Patriots." Snake's mission is to uncover a plot by his old nemesis Liquid Snake, now seemingly reborn in the body of the gunman Revolver Ocelot, and set on bringing down the "System," an apparently invincible computer network which controls the world.

The initial release of the game featured an online multiplayer mode, "'''''Metal Gear Online'''''," allowing up to sixteen player matches using characters and weapons from the main game. This mode was removed by the ''Metal Gear Solid 4'' 2.00 patch released in June 2012 as the servers were shut down, replaced with an option to install the entire game to the hard drive rather than only the current chapter. All information about ''Metal Gear Online'' below was correct at the time of shutdown.

'''The following weapons can be seen in the video game ''Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots'':'''

'''Note: Spoilers are present in some weapon descriptions.'''

__TOC__ 

=Overview=

[[Image:MGS4-Intro.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Snake admires the place he's going to keep enough weaponry to outfit a company.]]
''Metal Gear Solid 4'' uses a split inventory system where the player character, Old Snake, can equip up to six weapons, which are then available using a quick-access menu; this is explained as Snake's "backpack," despite that he is not actually wearing one. The rest can be accessed via the pause menu, this swapping explained in-game as the TARDIS-like depths of Metal Gear Mark 2, a foot-tall robot which seemingly has no issues containing more or less every weapon on this page along with enough ammunition to destroy Belgium. Snake's currently equipped weapons each count their weight towards a total for all gear; heavy loads will cause his "stress" meter (which governs how well he can aim ranged weapons) to rise faster when he moves around. Only weapons count towards weight; ammunition is treated as weighing nothing. This gets bizarre with disposable systems where each reload is a whole weapon in itself but all except the currently held one are treated as weightless "ammunition;" for example, only one of the fifty LAWs Snake can be carrying actually weighs anything for purposes of inventory weight.

Weapons can be found in the environment, but often feature biometric ID locks which prevent unauthorized use. To remove these, Snake can access a "gun launderer" by the name of Drebin and exchange points earned for the "war price" of repeatedly collected weapons, allowing him to purchase ammunition, buy new weapons and accessories, or unlock already collected ID-locked weapons for use. Drebin is explained as having an inside line to the "System" which controls the ID chips so he can replace existing chips with factory blanks (the process leading to the pun of the character called Drebin saying he sells "[[Naked Gun: From the Files of Police Squad!, The|Naked Guns]]"), but in reality such an operative would quickly find himself driven out of business by rogue gunsmiths simply replacing the ID lock parts with the original mechanical ones and bypassing the "System" entirely.

The game removes the "Tactical Reload" option of previous games where unequipping and re-equipping a weapon would instantly reload it; weapons now actually have to be reloaded properly. The animations have an odd quirk: apparently between games, Snake has decided to start practicing the "Middle Eastern Technique" mentioned in ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' of always chambering a new round when reloading, even when performing a mid-magazine reload. Despite this being described in that game as a pistol shooting technique, he does it with every weapon ''except'' pistols; they are correctly shown ejecting an unfired round when he does it unless the magazine was totally spent when the reload is performed. This seems largely done to explain what happens to the "extra" round that was in the chamber of closed-bolt weapons, or otherwise to keep from having to program two reload animations for every weapon. The few open-bolt weapons in this game (realistically) do not eject a round when reloaded, as their mechanisms do not function that way.

The game features an accessory system for weapons, with certain guns able to be customised; this is rather inconsistent, with many weapons not able to receive any modifications at all while only a handful have more than one or two accessory points, the majority limited to either an optional suppressor, underbarrel launcher or taclight. The showcase of the system is Snake's signature "M4 Custom" rifle, which can accept the largest number of accessories of any weapon. Shotguns and most grenade launchers also feature multiple types of ammunition, and weapons typically feature selectable fire modes if they have them in real life.

Accessory tactical weapon lights are shown rather strangely in game; apparently Snake has a fundamentalist attitude towards light discipline and maintains it ''everywhere'', even in broad daylight. This means taclights will only be flashed on and off briefly regardless of what the player wants; the result is only really useful for briefly blinding guards if Snake points the light in their face at extremely close range. However, taclights used by player characters in ''Metal Gear Online'' did not behave in this manner and would remain switched on until manually turned off.

Furthermore, suppressors in the game are handled differently (and less realistically) than they were in the previous game. Suppressed weapons will no longer revert to being unsuppressed once an attached suppressor is worn out; instead, a replacement will automatically and instantly be attached, even if the previous one wore out in the middle of the gun's firing a long burst. In the previous game, a gun with a worn-out suppressor would have it automatically pop off, reverting the weapon to unsuppressed fire until another suppressor was remounted manually, but in this game a suppressed weapon will only revert to being unsuppressed if Snake has no suppressors left for that weapon in his inventory. This was likely done because the PS3 controller's buttons were already assigned to other functions (such as changing ammunition types or turning taclights on/off) in the inventory view, and manually remounting a suppressor by pausing the game and going to the customisation menu would be too cumbersome.

=Handguns=

==Custom M1911==

Big Boss's highly customised [[M1911_pistol_series|M1911]] from [[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater|Operation Snake Eater]] can unlocked via entering a password. Being an unlockable "special" weapon, it deals more damage than the other .45 ACP handguns. The Custom M1911 can be fitted with its own unique degradable suppressor; it is not compatible with the ones for Snake's Springfield Operator.

[[Image:1911custom.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A reproduction of Big Boss' custom M1911 - .45ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-M1911Cus-HQ.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"1911 Custom" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-1911Cus-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads Big Boss' custom M1911, resisting his genes telling him to first have a three-minute CODEC call about how awesome it is.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mark22.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In a painting in Big Mama's church, Big Boss brandishes his custom M1911.]]

==EAA Tanfoglio Thor .45-70==

The [[EAA THOR Pistol|Thor .45-70]] is a highly accurate and incredibly powerful single-shot break action pistol (referred to in the description as a "hand rifle," but more accurately described as a rifle-caliber pistol) that must be manually chambered after every shot. It is Liquid Ocelot's signature weapon, both in singleplayer and multiplayer; in the singleplayer story he only actually fires it once, and his outfit does not display it openly as previous game did with his revolvers. It can be unlocked and used by the player by either earning the Foxhound emblem or entering a code, and comes with a unique red dot sight; this cannot be removed, and the weapon has no other customization options.

[[Image:THOR .45-70.jpg|thumb|400px|none|EAA Tanfoglio Thor - .45-70]]
[[Image:MGS4-Thor.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Thor .45-70 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Thor-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Facing Snake on the fictional Volta River, Ocelot pulls his Thor from an unspecified location inside his coat...]]
[[Image:MGS4-Thor-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And prepares to fire the only shot he ever fires from it. Though in spite of his line, not at Snake.]]

==FN Five-seveN==

The [[FN Five-seveN]] is the standard sidearm for Liquid Ocelot's elite FROG special operations unit (FROG standing for absolutely nothing, but probably has to do with their tendency of jumping all over the place), and is also one of the weapons used by Dwarf Gekko drones. It can be bought from Drebin, taken from a destroyed Dwarf Gekko, or taken from a FROG by disarming them of their primary weapon and then killing them or knocking them out. Since it shares ammunition with the fairly common P90, it is unlikely to have problems with ammunition, and it has a large magazine. However, it cannot mount a suppressor, the only option being a tactical light. The presence of the weapon is a reference to ''Metal Gear: Ghost Babel'' and the ''Ac!d'' games, where it is Solid Snake's primary weapon.

[[Image:FN-FiveSeven USG.jpg|thumb|400px|none|FN Five-seveN - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Five-Seven.jpg|thumb|601px|none|FN Five-seveN on the item menu.]]

==Glock 18C==

The [[Glock 18C]] is the rarely-used sidearm of the rebels in Act II, and can also be purchased from Drebin. It also has a 33-round magazine, and oddly enough, is the only 9x19mm handgun in the game. It can be customised with a tactical flashlight. The weapon is a reference to ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', where Fatman's weapon of choice (aside from bombs) was a Glock 18, albeit with a 19-round magazine instead. This handgun is also available in multiplayer.

[[Image:Pistol Austrian Glock 18 with 31 round magazine.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Glock 18C - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Glock.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Glock 18C on the item menu.]]

==Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Phase II Prototype==

The [[Heckler & Koch Mk 23 Mod 0|Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Phase II Prototype]] can be found in the game in Act 4; its status as Solid Snake's previous handgun in the original ''[[Metal Gear Solid]]'' is noted. It is also used in the Raven Sword PMC commercial in the introduction, and is seen in the holsters of Meryl's Rat Patrol soldiers and Raiden. The SOCOM presented in ''MGS1'', ''MGS2'' and ''MGS4'' is the Phase II model prototype submitted for trials in the USSOCOM Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) competition around the later part of 1991, and not the actual production model Mark 23 Mod 0. It is distinguished by small cocking serrations on the front of the slide, which the production model, Mod 0, does not have. The Mark 23 mounts the distinctive blocky LAM under the barrel as in previous games, and can also be fitted with a degradable suppressor. The Mark 23 is the subject of a number of the game's "Easter eggs," including being found almost exactly where it was in the original game. This is the only place it can be found in the campaign, and it is never available from Drebin; the only other way to unlock it is via a cheat code.

This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is also the only firearm that the special character Raiden is equipped with.

[[Image:SOCOM.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Tokyo-Marui '''Airsoft replica''' of the H&K Mark 23 Phase II Prototype - (fake) .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk23.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Mark 23 Phase II Prototype on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk23-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Snake:''' ''"Just like old times . . . "'' Snake holds his Mark 23 Phase II Prototype as he stands in front of Shadow Moses Island's tank hangar and remembers the good old days.]]
[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny Sasaki (who actually uses a GSR) and the other members of the Rat Patrol have "holster stuffers" that resemble Mark 23, save for Meryl who for reasons best known to herself just wears the empty holster. The model used is fairly inaccurate for a Mark 23, having a metallic tang like a Desert Eagle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk23-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Raiden uses the same holster model except in black, though he's always too busy using his sword and heap of knives to bother with his handgun. His cybernetic body makes him look pretty cool until you get to his feet which have high heels so he can hold his sword with them. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWsfhmdV4RE&t=1m16s Yes, Really.]]]

==IMI Desert Eagle Mark XIX==

The [[Desert Eagle]], simply called the "D.E." is used by Meryl Silverburgh ingame. It can be purchased from Drebin, or occasionally picked up from the "Dwarf Gekko" drones (who amazingly have the strength to fire it accurately from one undersized mechanical hand). A 10-inch barrelled variant with a scope can be unlocked, and is also used by Meryl.

A number of bizarre graphical glitches plague this weapon in the game. First, when Snake reloads the long-barrelled Desert Eagle, he holds an entire second gun in his off-hand rather than just a fresh magazine. Second, there are times when Meryl's slide will lock back and she will not play the reload animation. There may or may not be a round loaded when the second glitch happens; her remaining rounds can't be seen, so it is hard to tell. Third, when Meryl draws her long-barrelled Desert Eagle there are moments in the game when it is still visible within her thigh holster.

This weapon is available in the game's multiplayer mode, Metal Gear Online. Players using Meryl's character online who equip a standard Desert Eagle in the pistol slot and the long-barrelled variant in the primary weapon slot will allow her to switch from one gun to another when the first is empty, without ever pausing to reload.

[[Image:Desert-Eagle.jpeg|thumb|400px|none|IMI Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50 AE]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Desert Eagle on the item menu. Note Magnum Research's new barrel with a Picatinny rail. The rail cannot be used on this version, however.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Meryl's special 10"-barrelled Desert Eagle with a scope on the item menu.]]
[[File:MerylDEMGS4-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl aims her Desert Eagle at Snake upon first encountering him. Despite likely wearing her balaclava up until this point, she removes it and does not use it for the rest of the game. The Meryl special character in multiplayer, however, can remove and re-don her balaclava at any time, as can Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl holds her regular Desert Eagle in the Advent Palace. She tends to use the normal one indoors, saving the 10-inch scoped version for outdoors. This relatively sensible choice doesn't really mitigate the bigger issue of using a pair of hand-cannons in the first place.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Desert Eagle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He then re-Deagles his long-barrelled Desert Eagle. This error is most likely caused by forgetting to separate the magazine and weapon objects in the game's files. Strangely, this does not happen if playing as Meryl in Metal Gear Online.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The first sight of Meryl's specially modified Desert Eagle is, oddly enough, on a monitor in the back of Drebin's Stryker.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|By only carrying two Desert Eagles, Meryl fails "rifleman" on two counts, though she might make a passable futuristic pistolier. Note the unusual holster necessitated by her 10"-barrel Desert Eagle's scope mount. She carries the unscoped Desert Eagle in an abdominal holster.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As the "System" shuts down for the first time, everyone except Johnny Sasaki suffers a psychological breakdown; this includes Meryl, who drops her long-barrel Desert Eagle as she collapses.]]
[[File:MGS4DesertEagleLongBarrel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Screaming Mantis forces Meryl to hold her long-barrelled Desert Eagle to her head, which is a reference to the original [[Metal Gear Solid]] when Psycho Mantis did the same thing to Meryl.]]
[[File:MGS4DE-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl fires her Desert Eagle at FROG soldiers inside Outer Haven.]]
[[File:MGS4DE-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl and Johnny fire a brace of handguns at the FROGs, Meryl wielding her standard and long barrelled Desert Eagles, while Johnny fires a Desert Eagle he got from Drebin along with his SIG-Sauer GSR.]]

== Luger P08 "Artillery Model" ==

During the bizarre live-action introduction sequences, one of the channels shows a PMC advertisement with two people in Middle Eastern-style robes hovering in mid-air as the camera circles around them. The one in white is armed with a long-barrelled "Artillery Model" [[Luger P08]].

[[Image:LugerP08Artillery.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Luger P08 - 9x19mm. This is the long barrelled "Artillery" model of the Luger P08 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger.jpg|thumb|none|601px|One of the two strange combatants during the intro's PMC commercial holds up her long-barrelled Luger P08.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot of the Luger, with the toggle lock visible.]]

==Makarov PMM==

The [[Makarov PM#Makarov PMM|Makarov PMM]] is used by the rebel "mark" Snake has to track during the third Act, and can be purchased from Drebin. It is also the sidearm of the Paradise Lost resistance group as a whole, though they are only seen using it in cutscenes. There is little to be said for it; it uses uncommon ammunition, cannot be customised or suppressed, and really seems to only be in the game to give the rebels in Act 3 a suitably Eastern European sidearm.

[[Image:Makarov PMM.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Makarov PMM - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Makarov PMM on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Paradise Lost member draws his PMM as Snake enters their safehouse.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Makarov isn't exactly a Walther PPK, but then Snake isn't exactly James Bond, either.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Revisiting the Blast Furnace on Shadow Moses in Act 4, Snake takes on the army of Dwarf Gekko which now live there. Despite the name, the area does not actually contain a blast furnace: perhaps "Two Pools of Molten Metal Room" didn't have the same ring to it.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Makarov PMM.]]

== Mk22 Mod 0 "Hush Puppy" ==

In the third Act, a painting of Big Boss brandishing his M1911 Custom with his Mk22 Mod 0 (Navy modified [[Smith & Wesson Model 39]]) holstered is briefly focused on.

[[Image:Mk22 Mod 0.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Mk22 Mod 0 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mark22.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Big Boss brandishes his M1911 Custom, with his Mark 22 holstered.]]

==PSS==

The [[PSS Silent Pistol|PSS]] can be found in several areas throughout the game or bought from Drebin; Drebin seems to have an odd fondness for this weapon, and it commands a premium price when found. It uses 6-round magazines with special "silent" 7.62x42mm ammunition, making it a lethal counterpart to the Mk. 2 tranquilizer pistol (neither has a degradable suppressor). The PSS previously made a brief appearance in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2]]'', but this game is the first time it became usable by a player character in this series.

[[Image:Pistol Russian PSS in 7.62x41mm SP-4 special purpose noiseless cartridge.jpg|thumb|400px|none|PSS Silent Pistol - 7.62x42mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSS.jpg|thumb|none|601px|PSS silent pistol displayed in the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Literally two dozen yards from the end of the first Act, Snake uses his PSS Silent Pistol to make a Praying Mantis soldier silent.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSS-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The threat dealt with, he reloads his weapon.]]

=="Race Gun"==

The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racegun Race Gun] is based on Strayer Voigt Inc's 1911-styled double stack pistols; it is not even close to a modern high-end race gun, with only the choice of ammunition really distinguishing it as anything unusual. The gun holds 19 rounds in 9x23mm Winchester which is a moderately powered pistol cartridge; the game's version, for reasons which are never particularly apparent, uses rounds lightly loaded with smokeless powder, providing barely enough force to cycle the gun's mechanism. In game terms, this means the low-powered bullets will ricochet off hard surfaces and can be used for the "trick shots" showcased by Revolver Ocelot with his Colt Single Action Army in previous games; the result is basically just a gimmick gun for showing off, and is useless in practical terms thanks to its low damage stats (which appropriately reflect the stopping power of such underloaded ammunition). Once the game is completed at least once, the pistol will be unlocked automatically. The Race Gun cannot be customised.

[[Image:SVI_Infinity.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Strayer Voigt Inc Infinity pistol - 9x23mm Winchester]]
[[Image:MGS4-Racegun.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"Race Gun" on the item menu.]]

==Ruger Mk. II==

An integrally suppressed, manually operated fictional variant of the [[Ruger Mk II Pistol]], that fires tranquilizer rounds and has grips with a built-in laser sight and what appears to be a carbon-fibre barrel / upper receiver. It is given to Solid Snake by Otacon early in the game. After the game is completed, it is also able to fire fictional "Emotion" darts which induce one of the game's four psychological states (Cry, Laugh, Rage and Scream) in the target before knocking them out. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:RugerMkIISilenced.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ruger Mk II pistol with professional Ciener Suppressor - .22 LR. This is a classic Silenced Pistol and this pistol has been seen in several motion pictures]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"Mk. 2 Pistol" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The Ruger Mk. II is presented to Snake using Metal Gear Mk. II's manipulator, Otacon seemingly having decided to give Snake two Mk. IIs for the price of one. Note laser sight grips.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the bolt of his custom Ruger Mk. II. This weapon is the successor to ''MGS2'' and ''MGS3's'' tranquilizer guns, and as in those games is manually operated.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After giving a Praying Mantis PMC soldier a hard-earned rest, Snake reloads his Ruger Mk. II.]]

==Shansi Type 17==

Used by Big Mama, this is a Chinese made version of the [[Mauser C96]], chambered for .45 ACP ammunition. The Type 17 can be fired in semi-auto or - incorrectly - full-auto (the real Type 17 never had select-fire capability), and uses a 10-round fixed magazine loaded with a single 10-round stripper clip (common for other C96 versions, but the Chinese copies were usually issued with 5-rounders which allowed them to be reloaded once five or more rounds had been fired). It lacks any customisation options (not even able the option to mount its well-known stock) and also cannot be reloaded until it is totally empty. It can be unlocked by earning the Hound emblem at the end of the game, or through entering a code. While this is the weapon Big Mama used in her previous guise as Eva in ''Metal Gear Solid 3'', it is not the same Type 17, since that one was lost during the motorcycle chase. Big Mama uses this weapon to destroy three Dwarf Gekko drones which manage to infiltrate her European hideout.

[[Image:C96-10.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Shansi Type 17 - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Shansi.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Type 17 on the item menu. Note the undersized fire-selector borrowed from the [[Mauser C96#Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer|Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer]] above and to the right of the trigger; the Shansi Type 17 in reality is not select-fire and thus has no such switch.]]
[[File:MGS4ShansiType17-0.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Mama continues to use the method of "Bandit Shooting" that she utilised in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater]]'', turning the gun sideways to clear rooms in a horizontal sweep. This is probably the only way to take the impractical "Gangsta" style shooting and make it practical.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Shansi-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After taking out three Dwarf Gekko drones, Big Mama strikes a pose with her Shansi Type 17.]]

==SIG-Sauer GSR==

The [[M1911 pistol series#SIG-Sauer GSR|SIG-Sauer GSR]] is the standard sidearm for all four of the game's Private Military Companies, and is also used by the small "Dwarf Gekko" drones. Any PMC soldier disarmed of his primary weapon will draw his GSR; the weapon can also be purchased from Drebin or found in a side-room in the first Act. The GSR uses the common .45 ACP round, but is inferior to Snake's default Springfield Operator due to being unable to mount a suppressor (though it does have the advantage of a slightly higher magazine capacity compared to the Operator).

This weapon is available in multiplayer, and if the "Drebin Points" option is not enabled, the GSR will become the only lethal pistol available to players who are not using unique storyline characters.

[[Image:SIG-GSR12.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG-Sauer GSR - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The SIG-Sauer GSR being displayed on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Investigating a group of dead PMC soldiers in a side-room of the rebel safehouse in Act 1, Snake finds a discarded GSR on the floor.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The gun rack in Drebin's Stryker includes two GSRs, two unloaded Glock 18Cs, and in the rack further down a pair of SCAR-H CQC rifles and two copies of Snake's M4A1 Custom; beyond them is a barely-visible AK-102 and a pair of LAWs. Several of these weapons are low-detail since they are part of the Stryker model rather than copies of the normal model. The two boxes between the pistol and rifle racks are the generic model for "custom parts" and are used for both weapon accessories and accessory weapons, such as the GP-30 and Masterkey.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As the System breaks down at the end of the first Act, a disoriented PMC soldier equipped with a GSR in his leg holster attempts to give Snake a hug. Note also the two large pouches for M67 hand grenades on his belt.]]
[[File:MGS4SIGGSR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny fires his GSR at FROG soldiers onboard Outer Haven.]]
[[File:MGS4SIGGSR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl picks up Johnny's GSR and fires it after he is wounded.]]
[[File:MGS4SIGGSR-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mei Ling, Captain of the USS ''Missouri'' and returning support character from the first MGS, cradles her GSR as her ship is boarded by a mix of FROG troopers, Dwarf Gekko, and even AI-controlled Metal Gear RAYs. This is the only time in the singleplayer game that she is ever depicted using a firearm (indeed it is the first time throughout the series she is ever seen using one), and her ''Metal Gear Online'' incarnation also restricts her to using handguns as the only firearm class she can equip. This is in line with her depiction throughout the series as a support character rather than a front-line soldier.]]

==Springfield Operator==

A customised [[M1911_pistol_series#Springfield_Armory_M1911_-_A1|Springfield TRP Operator]] is Old Snake's signature handgun in ''Metal Gear Solid 4'', and the weapon he most commonly has equipped during cutscenes; it is clearly designed to resemble the custom M1911 used by Big Boss during the previous game, though it is by no means identical. It is given to him for free (along with a [[Ruger Mk II Pistol]]) by Otacon early in the first Act of the game; Otacon comments that it was never integrated into the System, hence Snake's ability to use it before meeting Drebin. The Operator has the ability to mount both a tactical flashlight and a degradable suppressor, being one of only two pistols able to mount a suppressor and underbarrel accessory (the other being the Mark 23), and uses the very common .45 ACP round. Like the Mk2, aiming it will automatically activate a laser sight - in this case, it appears to be a Lasermax style sight built into the guide rod, with the activation switch on the slide stop. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:Springfield_Armory_TRP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Springfield Armory TRP Operator - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Snake_.45.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Old Snake's Springfield TRP.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Springfield TRP on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Otacon presents the TRP to Snake, with the suppressor installed. Oddly, it tends to not be installed during cutscenes; while this might conceivably be done in case Snake has no suppressors left, Snake has no problem using it when he has no .45 ACP ''ammunition'' left.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-3.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Snake checks over his TRP after being presented it, first unloading it and examining the slide, then the fit of the suppressor, and finally pulling the trigger to let the hammer fall on the empty chamber.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He's soon merrily testing it out on the Praying Mantis PMC soldiers.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his TRP; note the handle of his Stun Knife in his left hand. He frequently reloads weapons with this in his hand, as a nod to the CQC knife-and-gun techniques in ''Metal Gear Solid 3'', though this does get extremely silly when he does it with machine guns.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Encountering Drebin, Snake keeps his unsuppressed TRP trained on the Gun Launderer, not eager to trust someone who hangs around with a weird hairless monkey thing.]]
[[File:MGS4OldSnakeSpringerOp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aims his TRP at Liquid Ocelot at the end of Act 1, unable to get a shot off due to his nanomachines being interfered with by Liquid Ocelot's failed attempt to login to the System using Liquid Snake's DNA. His decision to wait until Ocelot was actually enacting his plan before trying to stop him turned out to be less than wise.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aims his TRP at Drebin's weird naked monkey-creature "Little Gray" as he wonders where it all went wrong.]]
[[File:MGS4SpringerOp-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Liquid Ocelot:''' ''"When it comes to CQC, I have the upper hand."'' Liquid Ocelot holds Snake's TRP on him after disarming him at the end of Act 3.]]
[[File:MGS4SpringerOp-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Old Snake:''' ''"One last punishment I must endure: erase my genes, wipe this meme from the face of the Earth. This is my final mission."'' Snake puts the barrel of his TRP in his mouth when preparing to commit suicide, a scene that is viewable right from the beginning of the game and requires completion of the game to fully explain. This screenshot provides a clear view of the laser activation switch on the slide release, and the Bomar-style rear sights.]]
[[File:MGS4SpringerOp-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unable to commit suicide, Snake fires the only bullet into random space. Note that the slide locked back on an empty magazine follower, despite the fact that Snake only loaded one round in the chamber and then pocketed the magazine. This means the slide should be in battery.]]

=Submachine Guns=

This category in-game also includes the "Patriot" compact carbine, but that weapon is listed under assault rifles due to firing an intermediate round rather than a pistol round.

==FN P90==

The [[FN P90]] is the primary weapon of Liquid Ocelot's FROG commando unit and is also used by Laughing Octopus in-game; since the FROGs are a common enemy in the game, ammunition is fairly plentiful. The P90 correctly features an integral reflex sight on the carrying handle, and also has three accessory mounting points, able to fit a suppressor, laser aiming module and a tactical light. Unusually for a game, the 50-round polycarbonate magazine is correctly shown as translucent, and visibly empties as the weapon is fired in first person. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and if the "Drebin Points" option is enabled, it becomes the most expensive weapon of its type in that mode, thanks to its ease of use and plethora of customisation options.

[[Image:FNP90Side.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN P90 - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-P90.jpg|thumb|none|601px|FN P90 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-P90-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Liquid Ocelot's all-female special unit, the FROGs, carry P90s as standard-issue; this is in part a callback to the Arsenal Tengu troopers of ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2]]'', who wore similar armor and also wielded P90s. As with the Arsenal Tengus, the gas masks of the FROGs are apparently fake and offer them no protection against gas-based attacks.]]
[[File:MGS4P90-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Close up on the receiver of a suppressed P90. Looking down while lying prone with any gun gives this type of view.]]
[[Image:MGS4-P90-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the "Guns of the Patriots" sequence in Act 3, a group of FROG soldiers on Liquid's boat manage the impressive feat of firing their P90s for twenty solid seconds without ever once being shown reloading, implying they somehow managed to fit 300 rounds into a standard P90 magazine.]]
[[File:MGS4P90-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A FROG soldier firing her P90.]]
[[File:MGS4P90-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Close up on a FROG's P90.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5SD2==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5SD2]] can be purchased from Drebin and is equipped with an integral, non-degrading suppressor. However, the tradeoff is that it is one of the weakest weapons in the entire game, and uses the surprisingly uncommon 9x19mm round. This weapon is available in multiplayer, but cannot be customised. The appearance of this weapon is a reference to the "Integral" version of the original ''[[Metal Gear Solid]]'' for the Playstation 1 console that was sold only in Japan, where it was available on the Very Easy difficulty and had infinite ammunition.

[[Image:MP5SD5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD2 - 9x19mm, The one in-game has the older S-E-F trigger group.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MP5.jpg|thumb|none|601px|MP5SD2 on the item menu.]]
[[File:MGS4MP5SD2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights of the MPSSD2.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP7A1==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP7A1]] is used by several of the PMC operatives in game. It can be first found and used by the player in Act 2 and can be equipped with a unique red dot sight or the ACOG scope. For whatever reason, the weapon is depicted ingame as being distinctly inferior to the P90, lacking any option to attach a suppressor, tactical light, or laser sight (all of which it can use in real life). It is also stuck with using a low-capacity 20-round magazine ingame (intended for use for when the MP7 is issued as a select-fire backup weapon), instead of its more appropriate 40-round magazine.

[[Image:Hk mp7 b-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 with Hensoldt RSA red dot sight - 4.6x30mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-MP7.jpg|thumb|none|601px|MP7A1 on the item menu.]]

==Izhmash PP-19 Bizon==

The [[Izhmash PP-19 Bizon]] can be purchased from Drebin; the game claims it to be a "new Russian submachine gun," even though it was twelve years old when the game came out and is eighteen years old in the game's universe; the version in-game is not even a current model, instead being based on the earliest production model. The version in game is chambered for 9x18mm Makarov, which translates into a 64-round magazine capacity. The Bizon cannot be customized.

[[Image:Bizon1.jpg|thumb|none|401px|PP-19 Bizon with stock folded - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:MGS4-Bizon.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Bizon on the item menu.]]

==MAC-10==

The [[MAC-10]] can be purchased from Drebin or found in Act 2 in the hands of the leftist Rebels. It can be equipped with a suppressor, and uses a 30-round magazine of .45 ACP ammunition. Unlike most depictions, Snake actually uses both hands and the stock ingame. Being an open-bolt weapon, it is possibly the only gun in the game with two reload animations. If Snake reloads with ammunition still left in the magazine, he will simply remove and replace it with a loaded one as he would a handgun. On the other hand, if Snake reloads the MAC-10 from an empty magazine, he will first retract the bolt before removing and replacing the magazine. Realistically, in neither case is a round ejected when reloading this weapon.

[[Image:IngramMAC10.jpg|thumb|320px|none|Ingram MAC-10 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-M10.jpg|thumb|none|601px|MAC-10 as "M10" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M10-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires his MAC-10 during the motorcycle sequence of Act 3; apparently Big Mama doesn't mind him firing unsuppressed fully automatic weapons right next to her ear.]]

==Skorpion Vz 82==

The [[Skorpion_SA#SA Vz. 82 Skorpion|SA Vz. 82 Skorpion]] is used by Paradise Lost resistance members riding motorcycles in the Eastern Europe section of the game (Act 3), and is given to Old Snake by Big Mama in the same level. While called the "Vz. 83" ingame, the game shows it as being chambered in 9x18mm Makarov rather than .380 ACP, making it a Vz. 82. It comes equipped with a visible laser sight.

Its comparatively low magazine capacity of 20 rounds, low stats, and inability to be customised, coupled with the fact that FN P90s can be obtained for free much earlier ingame, make it arguably a weapon hardly-chosen by most players, so it's largely for the nostalgia factor in singleplayer (the very similar [[Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion]] made an appearance in Metal Gear Solid 3), though players can still take advantage of the fact that it's the submachine gun with highest lock-on in the game, being especially useful for one-shotting enemies during the Act 3 chase scene. Multiplayer, however, is a different story, as it is the only firearm in its inventory slot to be available free of charge (if Drebin Points are enabled) for non-unique player characters, as well as possessing the longest auto-aim lock-on range of any weapon in multiplayer modes.

[[Image:Scorpion SA Vz 82.jpg|thumb|none|330px|SA Vz. 82 Skorpion - 9x18mm Makarov.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Klobb.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Skorpion Vz 82 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Klobb-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Mama hands Snake a Vz 82 during the cutscene before the motorcycle escape sequence.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Klobb-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As usual, he inspects it before accepting.]]

=Shotguns=

Note: All shotguns in this game can use 00 buckshot, shotgun slugs, or non-lethal vortex ring ammunition.

==Remington 870 Custom==

A heavily customised [[Remington 870]] can be purchased from Drebin or found in the second Act; it comes with a Surefire dedicated forend WeaponLight as standard, and can also be equipped with an Aimpoint red dot sight or ACOG scope; if neither is fitted, it will have no sights at all, with Snake simply aiming along the top mounted-rail. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is the only weapon of its type in that mode if the "Drebin Points" option is not enabled.

[[Image:Model870P 14inlg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 Police "Entry Gun" with a SureFire dedicated forend WeaponLight - 12 gauge. The version in ''MGS4'' is further customised with a top rail instead of iron sights and a collapsible stock similar to the one used by the Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-870C.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"870 custom" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-870C-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A FROG reels in confusion as Snake aims a pump-action RIS rail at her. "It's a shotgun, I swear!"]]
[[Image:MGS4-870C-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With the Aimpoint scope attached, the 870 Custom at least looks a bit more respectable.]]

== Remington 870 "MasterKey" ==

A short barrelled [[Remington 870]] configured like an [[Knight's Armament Masterkey]] is available as an attachment for the "M4 Custom" only, and can be found in the hands of PMC search teams; curiously, they have it equipped in a standalone configuration with a pistol grip and stock, raising the question of why they aren't just using a regular full-size shotgun instead. The inferior tube magazine capacity and lower effective range would make it far less useful than a full-sized shotgun for general use, and for close quarters combat or door breaching a purpose-built short shotgun would be a far more logical choice than issuing a rifle accessory which needs to be attached to ''another'' accessory to actually function.

[[Image:Remington870BlackSynthetic.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 with early style Black Synthetic Riot foregrips and buttstock - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:KAC Masterkey.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Masterkey shotgun mounted on a KAC SR-16 - 12 Gauge & 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Kacsbsa.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Masterkey in standalone configuration.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4CMasterkey.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Masterkey accessory shotgun mounted to the M4 Custom on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Masterkey.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Old Snake's M4 Custom in full recoil as he uses his Masterkey to ruin someone's day.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Masterkey-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Satisified for now, Old Snake reloads his Masterkey.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Masterkey-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Attaching an accessory shotgun to a standalone grip is like buying an iPod and then nailing it to the side of a desktop PC.]]

==Saiga 12==

The [[Saiga-12]] can be purchased from Drebin. It is the only weapon of its type capable of semiautomatic fire, as well as the only one that uses a detachable box magazine (with a capacity of 8 rounds); along with very clear iron sights, this makes it distinctly superior to the other shotguns in more or less every regard. This weapon is available in multiplayer, but cannot be customised.

[[Image:Saiga 12k-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Saiga-12K - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:MGS4-Saiga12.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Saiga 12 on the item menu, loaded here with less-lethal (in game terms, non-lethal) vortex ring rounds.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Saiga12-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Finding the Advent Palace hotel's kitchen infested with FROGs, Snake takes prompt action before an inspector shows up and shuts the place down.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Saiga12-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Having done his bit for the community, Snake reloads his Saiga 12.]]

=="Twin Barrel"==

A [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun#Short barreled Side by Side Shotgun (Sawed Off)|sawed off side-by-side double barrel shotgun]], that can either be found in the game or purchased from Drebin. For some reason, Old Snake is restricted to using it with a one-handed grip. He can also only fire both barrels at once, though this is due to the shotgun only having a single trigger for both barrels. Besides Snake, several members of the South American soldiers, as well as at least one Paradise Lost member utilized this type of weapon. In addition to the regular slugs, the Twin Barrel could also use non-lethal ammunition. For whatever reason, the latter ammunition is referred to as v-ring ammunition in-game.

[[Image:SS311A sawed-off-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sawed-off Baikal side-by-side shotgun - 12 gauge. Similar to the ''MGS4'' "Twin Barrel," though the latter has only a single trigger.]]
[[Image:MGS4-shotty.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"Twin Barrel" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Shotty-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Paradise Lost member holds a sawed-off double-barrel shotgun on Snake as the old man breaks into their headquarters.]]

=Assault Rifles / Battle Rifles=

==AK-102==

The [[AK-47#AK-102|AK-102]] is used by the rebel forces in the Middle East section (Act 1), and is Solid Snake's first weapon in the game (next to Solid Snake right after the first cutscene after the opening). Until he rendezvouses with the Metal Gear Mk II, the AK-102 is the only firearm that Solid Snake has at the beginning of the game, forcing the player to rely on stealth to get past the game's introductory level. It can be equipped with a [[GP-30]] grenade launcher. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and if the "Drebin Points" option is enabled, the AK-102 becomes the cheapest assault rifle in that mode.

[[Image:AK102.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-102 carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102.jpg|thumb|none|601px|AK-102 on the item menu, fitted with a GP30 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-4.jpg|thumb|none|601px|In the first Act, Snake only manages a short burst from his original militia-issued AK before it jams up on him, leaving him to discard it. An optional CODEC call reveals this was due to faulty locally-produced ammunition.]]
[[File:MGS4AK102-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires the AK-102 at Praying Mantis PMC troops.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his second AK-102. There are two slightly different AK-102 models used in game; the "hero" version used only in cutscenes has 3D-modelled bullets in the magazine, while the in-game one is empty.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-5.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Snake reloads the "hero" AK model, with a more detailed magazine.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Menaced by Gekko, Snake still has time to strike a dramatic pose. He discards this AK shortly after this.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Snake encounters his third and last AK-102. Finding it on the ground next to a dead soldier, he carefully checks it for booby-traps before picking it up.]]

==AN-94==

The [[AN-94]] can be found in a shack at the beginning of Act 2 or purchased from Drebin. It can be equipped with a [[GP-30]] grenade launcher. The game correctly simulates the weapon's unusual mode of fully-automatic fire by first firing a 1,800 RPM two-round burst, before cycling the following rounds at 600 RPM. While it is powerful and accurate, it features a very poor iron sight and 5.45x39mm ammunition pickups are basically non-existent, with only a handful in the fourth Act. Its presence is a reference to ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', where Russian mercenaries under the command of Olga Gurlukovich were equipped with the AN-94 during their attack on the Big Shell; unlike its previous incarnation, however, the AN-94 in this game cannot mount a tactical flashlight.

[[Image:Russian AN-94 Abakan Nikonov 5.45x39mm assault rifle 3.jpg|thumb|400px|none|AN-94 Abakan Nikonov assault rifle - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94.jpg|thumb|601px|none|AN94 on the item menu, equipped with a GP-30 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94-3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Snake holds an AN-94 fitted with a GP-30 grenade launcher as he waits for an elevator in the abandoned Shadow Moses base's nuclear warhead storage building.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|While waiting, he amuses himself by using the hideously tiny iron sight of the AN-94 to shoot at some of the warheads that the US military left lying around when the base was abandoned in an extremely sensible fashion. Apparently the alteration to his nanomachines that prevented him doing so before is long past its shelf life.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94-2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Luckily, the lethal radiation leak this used to cause has apparently also passed its shelf life and the warheads no longer care about being shot at, leaving Snake to smugly reload his weapon.]]

== AKS-74U ==

During the bizarre live-action introduction sequences, one of the channels shows a PMC advertisement with two people in Middle Eastern-style robes hovering in mid-air as the camera circles around them. The one in black is armed with an [[AK-74#AKS-74U|AKS-74U]].

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U (also referred to as the "AKSU" or 'Krinkov') - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AKS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A strangely-dressed pair of live-action combatants duel in the air, one holding an AKS-74U.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A second shot of the AKS-74U. This seems to be one of those adverts where nobody can actually figure out what the product was after seeing it.]]

== FAMAS ==

The [[FAMAS]] is not usable in the game, but appears in flashbacks to ''Metal Gear Solid'', as well as the brief "nightmare" sequence of ''MGS1'' gameplay.

[[Image:FAMAS F2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAS-G1 - 5.56x45mm. Older version of the G2 with magazine and magazine release system from FAMAS F1]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAMAS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Meryl Silverburgh holds a FAMAS on Solid Snake during a flashback to the first game.]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAMAS-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|During the nightmare sequence at the start of Act 4, Snake is treated to some authentic ''MGS1'' gameplay, with the guards still armed with their low-detail FAMAS-G1s as in the original. Note the screen border; this is authentic, and suggests this sequence is the actual PS1 code being run in emulation mode by the PS3.]]

==FN FAL==

The [[FN FAL]], labelled the FAL Carbine, is seen in the hands of the rebel forces in the Eastern Europe section of the game (Act 3). It can be purchased from Drebin like most other firearms in the game. Snake acquires two or three during cutscenes in Act 3, either disarming someone or taking one from a corpse, but hands them back to their owner or to someone else shortly afterwards each time; the sole rebel actually seen in normal gameplay does not use it either, leaving it as the only 7.62mm NATO weapon that ''has'' to be purchased directly from Drebin, rather than stolen and unlocked or being added to the player's arsenal after a cutscene. Its battle rifle cartridge makes it more powerful shot-for-shot than the ingame assault rifles, and its low rate of fire combined with the long range of its round allows effective full-auto fire from a much longer range, but it can't be customised.

[[Image:FN FAL 50 00.jpg|thumb|400px|none|FN FAL - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAL.jpg|thumb|none|601px|FN FAL on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAL-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Having knocked out several Paradise Lost members, Snake brandishes a FAL he took from one alongside his Stun Knife, preparing to lay some CQC down.]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAL-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Paradise Lost group prepare to move out as Big Mama delivers a ridiculous speech about how first-person shooter games have trained her "children" to be soldiers. Good thing it's not third-person stealth games that did that.]]

==FN SCAR-H CQC==

The short-barrelled CQC variant of the [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-H|FN SCAR-H]], referred to under its SOCOM "Mk. 17" designation, is the standard battle rifle used by the PMC troops ingame. It can be found fairly early on in Act 1 (simply by killing, subduing, sedating, or disarming PMC troops) up to Act 3, and can be upgraded with various optics, an LDI OTAL (Offset Tactical Aiming Laser), a flashlight and one of two vertical foregrips; it cannot, however, mount either of the NATO underbarrel accessory weapons or a suppressor. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:2fff2537c0.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Third Generation FN SCAR-H CQC - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk17.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The FN SCAR-H on the item menu. Note the fire selector is always on semi-auto.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SCAR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his SCAR-H. The bolt will lock back even if there is a round in the chamber.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SCAR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Praying Mantis PMC soldiers retreat as "Gekko" unmanned vehicles are called in to take their place.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SCAR-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|At the end of the first Act, Snake sneaks into the main base of the Praying Mantis PMC. Circumstances conspire to make this a slightly less bad idea than would normally be expected.]]

==Heckler & Koch G3A3==

The [[Heckler & Koch G3|Heckler & Koch G3A3]] is seen in the hands of the leftist insurgents in the South America section of the game (Act 2). It can also be purchased via Drebin like most other firearms in the game, but cannot be customised. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:HKG3A3.jpg|thumb|400px|none|HK G3A3 - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Boatanchor.jpg|thumb|none|601px|G3A3 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-G3-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake uses the ACOG sight of his SCAR-H to admire the trigger discipline of a rebel soldier with a G3A3.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM8 Carbine==

The [[Heckler & Koch XM8]] is used by the Rat Patrol and other US troops in game, curiously still called XM8 even though it has obviously been formally adopted by the US military in ''Metal Gear Solid 4's'' world. It can be found by the player in a secluded area in Act 2, but cannot be purchased from Drebin. The version seen in game has an early XM8 flash hider with the rest of the features of the later model. It comes with a built-in red dot sight and can be equipped with an XM320 grenade launcher, but no other accessories. Meryl's team each have different versions of the rifle, two of which are not available to the player; Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki uses the compact carbine configuration, Johnathan uses the standard one with a grenade launcher, and Ed has the designated marksman variant. The standard version of the XM8 is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:XM8.JPG|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch XM8 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Xm8 rightmed.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Early Heckler & Koch XM8 - 5.56x45mm NATO. Note "duckbill" flash hider and lack of four oval PCAP holes.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SpaceshipM320.jpg|thumb|none|601px|XM8 with an XM320 grenade launcher fitted, on the item menu. Note it uses an early "duckbill" flash hider rather than the later model's "birdcage," but has the later version's PCAP accessory mounting holes in the handguard.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The XM8, as in real life, features a red dot optic as standard; here Snake uses it to take out one of the PMC soldiers guarding the power station.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the charging handle of his XM8 after a reload.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnathan has a lie down with his XM8 with XM320. This is what is technically known as a bad idea.]]
[[File:MGS4XM8-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A US Army soldier tries to pull the trigger on his XM8, but the ID lock has been changed by Liquid Ocelot, rendering the weapon useless.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine==

The [[Heckler_%26_Koch_XM8#Heckler_.26_Koch_XM8_Compact_Carbine|Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine]], the shortest configuration of the XM8, is used by Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki, a member of Meryl Silverburgh's "Rat Patrol" FOXHound unit. While Heckler & Koch marketed this version as the "PDW" configuration, it fires a full-sized assault rifle round, therefore is classified here as a rifle. It is unavailable in singleplayer, but the Johnny Sasaki unique character in multiplayer can use it, and is the only player character in that mode who can select it at the beginning of a match or when respawning. In this mode, it retains the standard variation's red dot sight, but cannot be customised.

[[Image:XM8CC.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine with full stock - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8PDW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Old Snake:''' ''"You haven't even taken the safety off, rookie."'' '''Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki:''' ''"Careful, I'm no rookie! I'm a 10-year vet!"'' Johnny then bears out Snake's accusation by visually inspecting his weapon's safety rather than just flicking his thumb up and forward to ensure the safety is not still engaged or disengage it if it is.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8PDW-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The result is fairly predictable, with Snake ambushing Johnny via CQC techniques before turning Johnny's weapon against him and his comrades. Note that since there's only one model for the weapon used in this cutscene, the safety is ''still'' on.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8PDW-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny shows off the very "Future Force Warrior" look of the FOXHound unit's gear as he holds his XM8 Compact Carbine, including a backpack computer unit, a computer monitor integrated into his "shades," and a keyboard attached to his forearm. One very important piece of gear the Rat Patrol never wears, however, is a helmet.]]

==M4A1==

A customised [[M16_rifle_series#M4.2FM4A1_Carbine|M4A1]] is Solid Snake's assault rifle of choice and is given to him early in Act 1 by Drebin. In the first trailers, he instead steals it from a PMC soldier, and it is equipped with an EOTech 552 sight and a tan XM320 40mm grenade launcher. In the actual game, it can be equipped with an Aimpoint Comp M2 red dot sight, an ACOG scope, a Surefire tactical flashlight, a LDI OTAL (Offset Tactical Aiming Laser), a Knights Armament Company (KAC) or TangoDown vertical foregrip, a Remington 870 Masterkey underbarrel shotgun, an H&K XM320 grenade launcher, and a KAC suppressor. The sheer number of attachments, combined with excellent accuracy, low recoil and the abundance of 5.56mm ammo, makes this one of the best rifles available for a good bit into Act 3. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

The weapon itself is based on the M4A1 carbine with a 14.5" barrel, tan A2 pistol grip and tan LE 6-position buttstock. It is equipped as standard with Precision Reflex Industries (PRI) folding front and ARMS#40L rear sights, a Troy Industries CQB flash hider ("CQC compatible") and a KAC RAS. Though the latter is supposed to be free-floating, it is incorrectly rendered with a standard M4A1 handguard cap.

Drebin makes a series of patently false claims about the M4A1 as shown; he tells Snake the barrel is free-floating ("of course") despite that the weapon's handguard has an end cap, and claims the weapon is "popular with the big PMCs" despite none ever using it, and claiming it is "the official carbine model used by US army" even though in the fiction the US Army is shown to have adopted the XM8. In early preview shots PMC soldiers were shown carrying M4A1s, but in the finished game they use SCAR-H CQC rifles.

[[Image:ColtM4.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M4A1 Carbine - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4CMasterkey.jpg|thumb|none|601px|M4A1 on the item menu, fitted with a Masterkey accessory shotgun. Unusually for a videogame, mounting an optic will show the weapon with the sights folded down rather than removed entirely.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake is presented with the M4 by Drebin when they first meet as a gift to welcome him to the services of the Gun Launderer. Always one to look a possibly exploding horse in the mouth, Snake proceeds to thoroughly examine it. Note that despite Drebin's claim here, none of the PMCs use the M4 Custom at any point in the game.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake holds his M4 Custom, giving a good look at the rail handguard, flip-up sights and the high-detail magazine of the "hero" cutscene model.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After a minor diversion involving Snake's old nanomachines preventing the weapon firing (via a component he apparently didn't notice while stripping the weapon), Snake fires the M4 Custom.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the non-cutscene M4 reveals a distinct lack of bullets in the magazine.]]
[[File:MGS4M4Custom-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake prepares to squeeze off a shot a Vamp with his M4. Note that the fire selector is properly set to semi-auto, but in gameplay selector is always set to full-auto, even if the player selects a different firing mode.]]
[[File:MGS4M4Custom-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aiming his M4 at Vamp. Despite being right-handed, Snake does a pro job of setting up left-handed to remain behind cover, and makes good use of the wall for stability. Shortly thereafter he resumes his normal right-handed stance while turning the gun sideways, ejection port up, to fire at the PMCs guarding Vamp and Naomi.]]
[[Image:MGS4M4A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Old Snake wielding the M4A1 with an EOTech sight in early trailers; this accessory is not available in the final game.]]

=="Patriot"==

This custom full-auto-only stockless [[M16A1]] with a significantly shortened muzzle-braked barrel and smooth handguard based on the [[Rocky Mountain Arms Patriot Pistol]] and partially inspired by the [[M231 Firing Port Weapon]] that was a originally used by The Boss, is seen briefly at the end of the game. It can be unlocked by earning the Big Boss emblem after the end of the game or by a password. Its most notable trait is that it has unlimited ammo and never needs to be reloaded (the in-game reason is how its Beta-C magazine, misnamed in the previous game as the "feed mechanism," vaguely resembles the sideways-8 infinity symbol); it also plays part of the "Snake Eater" theme from ''[[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater|Metal Gear Solid 3]]'' when aimed. It is classified as an SMG, despite firing an assault rifle round, which would in reality make it an ultracompact carbine. The Patriot cannot be customised in-game. This weapon was available in multiplayer, but only if a player is randomly selected to have access to it. For some reason, the Patriot in multiplayer is treated as a suppressed weapon with absolutely no firing sounds (even though it cannot mount a suppressor), and its stopping power in that mode is minimal. Unlike ''Metal Gear Solid 3'', player characters will use their off-hand to hold the weapon by its magazine, unlike Big Boss in the aforementioned game who used his off-hand to hold the weapon's handguard.

Besides its playability, the Patriot also appears late in the game, wielded by Big Boss, shortly before dropping it and then disarming Solid Snake and embracing him in a fatherly hug.

[[Image:Wm 1119951786543207.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Similar-looking Rocky Mountain Arms "M16-Style Pistol" - 5.56x45mm. This has a A2 upper and pistol grip, whereas the weapon in the game has the older A1 upper (simpler rear sight and forward assist but no brass deflector) and an original-style pistol grip.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Patriot.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"Patriot" on the item menu.]]
[[File:MGS4Patriot-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "Patriot" being fired on the roof of Advent Palace. Note the rear sight and tear-drop forward-assist which a M231 FPW would not have.]]
[[File:MGS4Patriot-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Boss levels his "Patriot" at Old Snake.]]

=Sniper Rifles / Designated Marksman Rifles=

==Barrett M82A2==

The [[Barrett_M82#Barrett_M82A2|M82A2]] can be purchased from Drebin, is Hideo Kojima's personal favourite, and is used the US military forces in Act 3 and later by Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki during Act 5, a curious weapon choice when it is clear that a weapon capable of extended automatic fire would be much better suited to the particular environment he's literally being thrown into. It is also exclusively available to the Akiba special character in multiplayer.

[[Image:Barrettm82a2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Barrett M82A2 - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Barrett M82A2 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A US soldier aims a Barrett M82A2 at Liquid's boat from the side door of a helicopter during Act 3.]]
[[File:MGS4M82A2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another US soldier aims his Barrett M82A2 off the pier.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He is one of many, many, many soldiers and Marines aiming at said boat. Strangely, most of them aim straight forward even though the boat is ''below'' the bridge they're standing on.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|At the start of the final Act, Johnny Sasaki holds his M82A2 as he prepares to launch onto Outer Haven using the giant man-catapult which Drebin owns for some inexplicable reason.]]
[[File:MGS4M82A2-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny aims his Barrett M82A2 at FROG soldiers onboard Outer Haven.]]
[[File:MGS4M82A2-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny fires his M82A2 at the FROGs.]]

==DSR-1==

The [[DSR-1]], a bolt-action sniper rifle with a bullpup layout, is used by FROG snipers and can be bought from Drebin; doing so is rather pointless, however, since Snake is automatically given an unlocked DSR-1 at the end of Act 2, after he uses it in a cutscene to free Raiden from Vamp's clutches. This weapon can actually be seen in Snake's possession before this on a rack of weapons on board the Nomad during the briefing sequences, next to the helicopter in the transport bay. The weapon is loud and features a fairly slow bolt-action; this along with a lack of customisation options places it distinctly behind the Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR and VSS in terms of versatility. The ingame calibre is specified to be 7.62x67mm, making it .300 Winchester Magnum. It is used by a few PMC and FROG snipers, the latter resulting in one of the game's more memorably unrealistic scenes in Act 3. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:Dsr1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|DSR-Precision GmbH DSR-1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR.jpg|thumb|none|601px|DSR-1 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the bolt of his DSR-1.]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the motorcycle escape sequence in the third Act, the game uses a "cinematic" camera any time Snake isn't aiming; at one point, a FROG sniper is seen firing her DSR-1 from a distant building. Note the FROGs place the scope against the side of their head rather than lining it up with their eyes; in addition, in this scene the DSR-1 ejects a spent casing immediately, without the bolt being operated.]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Mama reels from the FROG sniper's bullet. As noted above, if the player was using their weapon they will have no idea why this actually happened. Which is probably for the best...]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...Since apparently Big Mama isn't up on the whole thing where being shot with a .300 Win Mag is supposed to actually harm you in some way.]]

==Heckler & Koch PSG-1==

While not usable in the game, the "press X" flashback after defeating Crying Wolf shows Sniper Wolf's death scene in the original game, with the defeated sniper holding her signature [[Heckler_%26_Koch_G3#Heckler_.26_Koch_PSG-1|Heckler & Koch PSG-1]].

[[Image:H&KPSG01.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch PSG-1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSG1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sadly, the static and blur filters thrown over these flashback images mean this is the only frame of Wolf's PSG-1 where the barrel isn't distorted.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter==

A [[Heckler_%26_Koch_XM8#Heckler_.26_Koch_XM8_Sharpshooter_Rifle|Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter Rifle]] is used by the character "Ed," a member of Meryl Silverburgh's "Rat Patrol" FOXHound unit. It is never available to the player.

[[Image:XM8sharp.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter Rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8Sharp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ed checks over his XM8 Sharpshooter. Note Ed's weapon is fitted with the same Insight ISM-V scope as the other members of his unit, rather than the x4 magnifying scope the Sharpshooter variant is supposed to use.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8Sharp-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl, Ed and Johnathan demonstrate the capabilities of the "System" by taking down three FROG soldiers in perfect unison, using their shared senses.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8Sharp-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hearing a mysterious sound coming from all around, Ed and Johnathan apprehensively aim their weapons at particularly scary-looking parts of a derelict building.]]

== Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ==

The [[M14_Rifle#Mk_14_Mod_0_Enhanced_Battle_Rifle|Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ]] (Referred to incorrectly as the "M14EBR") is a modern variant of the [[M14 Rifle]]. It is used by PMC marksmen in-game and can be purchased from Drebin. It has semiautomatic and fully automatic rates of fire and can be equipped with a suppressor, laser sight, and flashlight. Its fully automatic fire mode makes it very useful even in short range combat, and the fact that it is available early on, combined with its extensive list of modifications, makes it one of the best guns in the game. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR with a Harris bipod and vertical RIS foregrip - 7.62x51 NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"M14 EBR" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the first Act, rebel soldiers are shown trying to storm an urban area guarded by a PMC fireteam, including sniper / spotter teams; the snipers are armed with Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifles.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A second sniper team, with the marksman also armed with a Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR.]]

==Mosin Nagant Sniper==

A modified [[Mosin Nagant]] sniper rifle with a paratrooper stock and pistol grip can be purchased from Drebin in-game. It is similar, but not identical to, the rifle used by The End in MGS3. Like its MGS3 incarnation, this Mosin Nagant rifle is modified to only fire tranquilizer darts, though in this game this also includes fictional "Emotion" darts which cause targets to experience one of the game's four psychological states (Cry, Rage, Laugh or Scream). However, the Mosin Nagant rifle in this game has a 5-round internal magazine capacity (compared to The End's rifle which was single shot only), and is no longer treated as a silenced weapon. It can be reloaded with a 5-round stripper clip, even if it is not totally empty. This weapon is available in multiplayer, but without the "Emotion" ammunition.

[[Image:MosinNagantM9130Sniper.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Mosin Nagant M91/30 Sniper Rifle - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mosin.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Custom Mosin-Nagant on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mosin-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake shows off The End's Mosin Nagant, which Drebin acquired somehow.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mosin-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the bolt of his Mosin Nagant, correctly shown as the turned-down bolt handle of a sniper version.]]

==SVD Dragunov-S==

The SVD Dragunov-S, a modernised, shortened version of the [[SVD Dragunov]] intended for paratroop use is seen in the hands of militiamen and rebel snipers in Acts 1 and 2. The weapon cannot be customised or mount any kind of suppressor, but the ammunition is relatively cheap and the weapon a semi-automatic rather than bolt-action, making it a middle-of-the-road weapon. The scope features an error: the number in the stadiametric rangefinder indicating the height of the reference target is "10" rather than the correct "1.7;" either that or in Snake's world shooting at 32-foot tall monsters is more important than shooting at infantry. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:SVD-S-Rifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Dragunov-S shortened sniper rifle intended for paratroopers - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD.jpg|thumb|none|601px|SVD on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nobody had expected Snake to disguise himself as Venom.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As ever, Snake can't stand the idea of having a round lazing around in the chamber of one of his long guns after going to all the effort of reloading it, so gives the charging handle a yank to send it on its way.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As with the other sniper weapons, the SVD's scope has two zoom levels, the reticle slightly altering to take account of this. This is low-power...]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And this is high. Note the windage / lead marks have changed.]]

==VSS Vintorez==

The [[VSS Vintorez]] appears in the game, and can only be found in a room in Act 2; it cannot be bought from Drebin at any point in the game. It has an integral (non-degradable) suppressor, and like the M14EBR is capable of fully-automatic fire, though its shallower 10-round magazine can become a liability in close-range firefights. Since it uses the same reticle model, it duplicates the Dragunov's error of showing the reference height for the target as 10 metres instead of 1.7 metres. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is capable of firing tranquilizer rounds in multiplayer only.

[[Image:Vss1.jpg|thumb|401px|none|VSS Vintorez with PSO-1 scope - 9x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS.jpg|thumb|none|601px|VSS on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Out and about in Millennium Park, Snake aims his VSS Vintorez.]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake uses the scope of his VSS to help out his friend. "Well, that's a load off my mind. Thanks, Snake!"]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the VSS.]]

=Machine Guns=

As was the case in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater]]'' with the [[Stoner 63]], player characters firing machine guns continuously will yell in classic ''"[[Rambo]]"'' tradition. Weapons in this category all have a strange ammunition display quirk; the ammunition bar only shows fifty rounds, with every tenth round marked white. This will scroll as the gun is fired and only count down when 49 or fewer rounds are left on the belt.

==Heckler & Koch HK21E==

The [[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_series_machine_guns#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK21|Heckler & Koch HK21E]] is seen in the hands of a rebel militiaman in the early portion of the Middle East section of the game (Act 1). In a conversation that can be overheard if the player remains hidden or has earned the trust of the rebels, he claims that it is an enemy gun, yet strangely none of the PMC troopers in the level are seen using it. The rebel militiaman also refers to it as "the very latest model", when in actuality the weapon was designed in the 1980s, some 30 years before the events of the game take place. It can be stolen in this location, or can be purchased via Drebin like most other firearms.

[[Image:HK21E.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK21E - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-HK21E.jpg|thumb|none|601px|HK21E on the item menu. Note that it has the 5-vent handguard of a regular HK21 and a shortened barrel like that of an HK11 or HK23.]]
[[Image:MGS4-HK21E-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A rebel soldier brags about his "laundered" HK21E, ignoring several rules of firearm safety by waving it at his friend, even if his finger isn't on the trigger.]]
[[Image:MGS4-HK21E-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads an HK21E as a FROG trooper self-incinerates nearby. It's never particularly clear why they do this, so it's probably nanomachines. Note that the belt of the old drum vanishes just as Snake detaches it; this is the new drum being put in place.]]

==Kalashnikov PKM==

The [[PK Machine Gun]] is seen in the hands of militia and rebels in Act 2. at the time this is obtained, this gun is a good 40-50% more powerful at close range than any other automatic weapon. However, ammo is uncommon and expensive and it cannot be customised.

[[Image:PKM-mg.jpg|thumb|400px|none|PKM with classic (most seen) version of the flash hider - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM.jpg|thumb|none|601px|PKM on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake opens up on Pieuvre Armement PMC soldiers with his PKM, angered at the PMC's name being so hard to spell.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|His fury abated, it's time to reload.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rebel soldier thankfully realizes that Snake pointing a SCAR-H at his groin is just the old man's way of saying good morning.]]

==M60E4==

The [[M60 machine gun|M60E4]] is used by the PMC operatives in game. It can be equipped with optics, foregrips, a laser sight, and a flashlight. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is the only weapon of its type in that mode. Unlike the MAC-10 (the only other open-bolt weapon in the game), Snake will always pull the bolt back after reloading the M60E4 (in reality this is only necessary for open-bolt weapons if the trigger was held down after the last round in a magazine/belt was fired).

[[Image:M60E4-mk43.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M60E4 Mk.43 with Picatinny rails, RIS foregrip, and ammo belt - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60.jpg|thumb|none|601px|M60E4 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sights up a Pieuvre Armement PMC soldier armed with an M60E4.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake revisits Shadow Moses, bringing a touch more firepower this time.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Having foolishly alerted the million billion Dwarf Gekko which have apparently colonized the Tank Hangar, Snake does the only reasonable thing, whipping out his M60E4 and getting started making a big pile of scrap metal.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Werewolf PMC appears to be trying to deploy more Dwarf Gekko drones than a potential enemy has bullets.]]

==Mk. 46 Mod. 0==

The [[FN_Minimi#Mk_46_Mod_0|Mk. 46 Mod. 0]] can be purchased from Drebin; it is mislabelled as a Mod 1, but has the 12 o'clock rail on the handguard that is not present on the Mod 1. It features the same customisation as the M60, but it is much lighter and fires the less powerful 5.56x45mm cartridge.

[[Image:Mk46.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mk. 46 Mod. 0 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk46.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"Mk. 46 Mod.1" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk46-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake starts to reload the Mk. 46 by pulling back the charging handle, giving a good view of the 12 o'clock rail on the handguard; this shows the weapon is actually a Mod 0. Despite its inclusion, there is no accessory that can be mounted on this rail.]]
[[File:MGS4Mk46Mod0-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake unloads his Mk. 46 on PMCs while atop Drebin's Stryker.]]
[[File:MGS4Mk46Mod0-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Mk. 46 in the hallway at Shadow Moses where the Cyborg Ninja's infamous massacre took place.]]

=Launchers=

==FGM-148 Javelin==

The [[FGM-148 Javelin]] is found in Act 1 and can be purchased from Drebin. It is erroneously shown as a SACLOS device requiring full-course guidance by the operator, with Snake discarding the entire launcher including the CLU after every shot and pulling out a fresh Javelin from more or less nowhere; it also cannot be used in top-attack mode by the player. Most of the time it is used by NPCs it is seen being used in an incorrect direct-fire mode; in real life, even shots fired in this mode start their flight with a rapid climb, while in game the missile flies straight forwards. The only time it is shown firing correctly is during Act 1, when a group of hidden PMC soldiers will fire missiles in top-attack mode to destroy a rebel BMP-3 IFV if the player protects it for long enough.

It is never at all clear ''why'' it operates the way it does; presumably, the lack of lock-on capability is to separate the weapon functionally from the Stinger, and the SACLOS guidance intended to be reminiscent of ''MGS1'' and ''MGS2's'' fly-by-wire "Nikita" missile launcher, but this doesn't really explain why the resulting mechanics were given to a Javelin launcher rather than a fictional ATGM system.

[[Image:Javalin.jpg|thumb|400px|none|FGM-148 Javelin - 127mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin.jpg|thumb|none|601px|FGM-148 Javelin on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake moves into position with a Javelin during the second Act, preparing to provide the rebels with a touch more firepower.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sighting up a PMC Stryker through the scope of the Javelin. In theory, it's possible to top-attack by guiding the round up and then down, but this offers no meaningful advantage over direct fire.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With the Stryker destroyed, Snake reloads by throwing the entire launcher away and pulling another one out of thin air. Apparently it doesn't occur to him to re-use the $80,000 Command Launch Unit. Note that Snake can carry up to ''fifty'' complete launchers; this means his invisible backpack has a carrying capacity exceeding one ton.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sights up a PMC Javelin operator during the first Act. With due diligence, it's possible to escort the mildly suicidal BMP-3 past every launcher...]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...Whereupon a hidden Praying Mantis soldier suddenly remembers how the Javelin actually works.]]

==FIM-92 Stinger==

The [[FIM-92A Stinger]] can be purchased from Drebin, and is also found in the back of the truck in the Nuclear Warhead Storage Building, Floor 1, in Act 4. Unlike previous games where it was reloaded in a completely unspecified manner, in ''MGS4'' Snake will discard the launcher after firing and pull another one from thin air. As per series norms, the Stinger is incorrectly shown as a strange all-purpose missile, able to lock on to aircraft, ground vehicles, and even infantry, and the missile is shown seeking straight out of the tube rather than flying in a straight line for 660 feet as with the real weapon.

[[Image:-0976t.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FIM-92A Stinger - 70mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger.jpg|thumb|none|601px|FIM-92A Stinger on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With a determined look on his face, Snake clutches a Stinger as he advances on the Confinement Facility. As with the Javelin, being old apparently doesn't stop him lugging two thousand pounds of Stingers around.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake readies a Stinger as his previous one fails to take down a PMC helicopter. Reloading before impact broke the previous round's lock-on, leaving it to fly off aimlessly.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The helicopter is not nearly as lucky the second time around.]]

==GP-30==

The [[GP-series grenade launcher|GP-30 grenade launcher]] can be attached to the AK-102 and AN-94. It can be found in the Advent Palace Hotel in Act 1, in a secret room at the start of Act 2, or bought from Drebin. It can be used in multiplayer on the AK-102 if Drebin Points are enabled. The GP-30 correctly does not share ammunition with the other 40mm grenade launchers (as it uses caseless VOG-25 grenades, which are incompatible with 40mm NATO grenade launchers); in game, it can only use high explosive rounds.

[[Image:Gp-30 ak-74.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GP-30 grenade launcher mounted on AK-74 - 40mm & 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102.jpg|thumb|none|601px|AK-102 on the item menu, fitted with a GP-30 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GP30-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads the GP-30 mounted under his AN-94 assault rifle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GP30.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake finds a GP-30 in the Advent Palace Hotel. As noted previously, this "Custom Parts" box item is used to represent any accessory weapon or weapon accessory.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM25 Mock-Up==

An early mock-up of the [[Heckler & Koch XM25]] made for demonstration purposes is shown in game as the actual weapon. A semi-automatic grenade launcher chambered in 25mm, it fires airbursting HEAB (High Explosive Air Bursting) rounds, which function rather like the PK rockets in ''Battlefield 2142''; while the weapon is held normally they are simply impact detonated, but scoping shows a display with an always-on rangefinder. Pressing up or down on the D-pad freezes at the currently displayed range, with further presses adjusting the detonation distance up or down. It can be found on the catwalk of one of the control towers in Act 4, and is the only heavy weapon usable during the motorcycle chase in Act 3.

[[Image:Xm25 3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch XM25 mock-up - 25 x 40mm. This is a non-firing demonstrator which looks substantially different to the final version.]]
[[Image:ATKXM25.jpg|thumb|none|402px|Pre-2015 functional XM25 for comparison - 25 x 40mm. The version in ''MGS4'' was clearly based on the former.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25.jpg|thumb|none|601px|XM25 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires his XM25 in over-shoulder mode; fired like this, the grenades are impact detonation only.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Using the scope, on the other hand, allows the HEAB rounds to be used properly. The two range figures to the right are the range to the object currently being aimed at (white) and the current detonation distance (red). It fires in impact mode until the D-pad is touched to fix and then alter the range. The launcher "forgets" the set range if Snake stops aiming down the sight.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his XM25 as he tries to ignore what Johnny Sasaki is currently doing nearby.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM320==

A mixture of the early version and later version of the [[Heckler & Koch M320|Heckler & Koch XM320]] grenade launcher is the underbarrel launcher for the M4 Custom and XM8 rifle; it lacks the MP7-style folding front grip added to the production M320 and has the early style trigger guard, therefore is correctly labelled in the game, even if it makes little sense in-universe for it to still have an XM- designation. It can be purchased from Drebin, and is also carried by some PMC members in stand-alone form in the South America portion of the game; it cannot be used by the player in this form. The XM320 has four ammo types; it can fire HE rounds, white phosphorous, stun grenades and smoke rounds. The attachment is also available in multiplayer.

[[Image:XM320.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch XM320 - 40x46mm. Note lack of a front grip, added only to the production M320. The version in-game uses an earlier version of the trigger guard.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SpaceshipM320.jpg|thumb|none|601px|XM320 grenade launcher mounted to an XM8 rifle on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M320-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Assaulted by Pieuvre Armement PMC soldiers, Snake loads a white phosphorous round into the XM320 mounted to his XM8.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M320-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He stops being assaulted immediately afterward.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M320-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Later, he encounters two more PMC soldiers defending the Confinement Facility with their standalone XM320s. Thankfully, PMC soldiers can only use high explosive rounds in their launchers.]]

==M72A3 LAW==

The [[M72 LAW]] is used by a small number of rebels in Act 2.

[[Image:M72A2LAW.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M72A2 LAW - 66mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW.jpg|thumb|none|601px|M72A3 LAW on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake comes across a rebel soldier with his M72 at the ready during the game's second Act.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Taking aim down the sights of an M72A3 LAW. Or rather, the sight; the weapon is incorrectly shown with the player's point of view in front of Snake's right hand, using only the front sight with the rear one not visible. To actually do this, Snake would have to be reaching back over his own shoulder with his right hand.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake discards a spent LAW and extends another; the ground model is actually a closed tube, meaning the tube instantly collapses as it leaves Snake's hands.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As Drebin moves to give Snake a shot of suppressor Nanomachines to let him use non-ID guns, two low-detail LAWs are visible in the weapon rack of his Stryker. These are low-detail because they are part of the Stryker model itself rather than copies of the normal in-world model.]]

==Milkor MGL Mk 1L==

The [[MGL-140|Milkor MGL Mk 1L]] appears as the "MGL-140," it is used by Raging Raven and is acquired by Solid Snake upon defeating her. It shares the ammunition reserve of the XM320, and can use the same four ammunition types: HE fragmentation, white phosphorous, "flashbang" stun rounds and smoke rounds.

[[Image:MGL Mk 1 L.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Milkor MGL Mk 1L in desert tan finish fitted with Armson OEG reflex sight - 40x46mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL.jpg|thumb|none|601px|MGL-140 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Raging Raven flies overhead during the introduction of the B&B Corps in the first Act, showing off her MGL-140 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Later, in the third Act, the MGL gets a closeup as Raven fires a grenade at the van Snake and Big Mama are escorting. Her MGL lacks a foregrip, but one can be fitted afterwards.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Finally getting her boss fight in Act 3, Raven has her pre-battle speech...]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...During which, for reasons known only to himself, Snake doesn't shoot her. Perhaps he's marvelling at how this isn't even the weirdest thing that's happened to him ''today''.]]
[[File:MGS4MilkorMGL-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake collects Raven's MGL-140 after defeating her.]]

==RPG-7==

The [[RPG-7]] is used by the rebels in the first Act, and a large number of unlocked RPG-7s are present throughout the first stage, seemingly primarily to give the player some quick Drebin Points due to their high trade-in value. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is the only one of its type in that mode.

[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg|thumb|400px|none|RPG-7 - 40mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG.jpg|thumb|601px|none|RPG-7 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A rebel aims his RPG-7 during ''MGS4's'' first Act.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires on a Stryker using the PGO-7 scope of his RPG-7; the illuminated red dot at the aim point is obscured here by the flare of the rocket's sustainer motor.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake starts to reload his RPG-7, showing off the PGO-7 scope.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake finds a box of RPG-7 ammunition lurking around in the rebel base in Act 1. This is the generic pickup item used for all rocket launcher ammunition.]]

=Thrown / Placed=

==Airsoft gas charger grenade==

A grenade with a thin, smooth cylindrical body is used as the model for both the "flashbang" stun grenades and the game's fictional electronic warfare "chaff" grenades. This appears to be based on a grenade-shaped gas bottle for Airsoft guns, such as the one shown below. Stun grenades can be found throughout the game or bought from Drebin, and stun all enemies within a fixed radius who can see them while also causing an instant alert if there wasn't one already. The Chaff Grenade is treated as a "secret" weapon; only a handful can be found during the entire game, usually in out-of-the-way places, and Drebin never sells them; they are basically a short-duration EMP-like effect rather flimsily explained as strips of metal which are spread throughout the entire current area via magic. Using one temporarily disables security cameras, alarms and enemy radios, and temporarily paralyses any drone vehicles present. This lasts until the magic fades and all the strips of metal return to wherever they came from in the first place.

[[Image:DAM116A101.jpg|thumb|none|200px|EAIMING "M116A1 Distraction Device Grenade," an Airsoft gun gas charger built to resemble a hand grenade. "M116A1" is actually the US army's code for a simulation hand grenade with a paper body, used in training.]]
[[Image:MGS4-StunG.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"Stun grenade" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-ChaffG.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"Chaff grenade" on the item menu. M363 is actually an obsolete anti-infantry canister round developed for the 76mm guns of the M4 Sherman and M41 Walker Bulldog tanks.]]
[[Image:MGS4-StunG-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After FROG soldiers knock a hole into the Advent Palace Hotel's bathroom, they toss a stun grenade inside, visible next to Meryl's head. The explosion, if looked at, turns the screen completely white; this can be simulated by looking to the right of this image.]]

==M112 C4 Demolition Charge==

Remote-detonated M112 C4 Demolition Charges are available during the game, and can be placed on the ground or objects and then detonated in the order they were originally placed. Precisely what attaches them to surfaces is not clear; the charges can be fixed to non-magnetic surfaces, and lack any obvious adhesive.

[[Image:M112.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M112 demolition charge]]
[[Image:MGS4-C4.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"C4" on the item menu.]]

==M18 Smoke Grenade==

The [[M18 smoke grenade]] is the basis for the "fat" versions of the Stun and Chaff grenade seen in the ''MGS1'' nightmare sequence.

[[Image:M18red.jpg|thumb|none|200px|M18 smoke grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the Act 4 ''MGS1'' nightmare, Snake is surprised at finding a security camera in a top-secret base as he brandishes a "Chaff Grenade" based on an M18. Due to PS1-era graphical limitations, the grenade is bigger than his head.]]

==M18A1 Claymore==

The [[M18A1 Claymore]] mine is used as a trap in several locations throughout the game; as usual in the series, the mines use a proximity detonator rather than the real weapon's tripwire, although they lack the optical camouflage seen in the first two games which made them invisible.

[[Image:M18a1 07.jpg|thumb|none|300px|M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine]]
[[Image:MGS4-Claymore.jpg|thumb|none|601px|M18A1 Claymore on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Claymore-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake spots a Claymore in the lobby of the Advent Palace Hotel, deciding that practical jokes by the staff must have really got out of hand.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Claymore-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Luckily ''MGS'' series standards still apply, and Claymores are apparently both extremely hot for no readily determined reason and can be stolen by crawling over them.]]

==M34 White Phosphorous Grenade==

The [[M34 White Phosphorous grenade]] is available to the player only, and creates a burning cloud of white phosphorous which ignites enemies on contact.

[[Image:M34 2-1-.jpg|thumb|none|200px|M34 White Phosphorous grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-WP.jpg|thumb|none|601px|M34 White Phosphorous grenade on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-WP-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake looks down the iron sight of his MP5SD2 at a case of WP grenades; this is the generic pickup model used by every type of grenade in the game.]]

==M67 Hand Grenade==

The [[M67 hand grenade]] is used by most enemies in the game and can be used by the player; it is also part of the armament of the "Gekko" bipedal IFVs, which can throw grenades using their manipulator tentacles. As with the Stun and Chaff grenades, it seems the in-game model was actually based on an Airsoft gas charger bottle; the shape of the grenade body is distinctly incorrect for a real M67 but matches several gas charger models.

[[Image:FakeM67.jpg|thumb|none|200px|'''Airsoft''' "M67 hand grenade" gas bottle]]
[[Image:Baseball.jpg|thumb|none|200px|M67 hand grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-M67.jpg|thumb|none|601px|M67 hand grenade on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M67-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Drebin shows off a magic trick he presumably uses at ''really'' dull parties.]]
[[File:MGS4Grenade-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A better shot of the M67. Note the unsplit pin, another clue that the grenade was not modelled from a real grenade.]]

==M83 Smoke Grenade==

The [[M83 smoke grenade]], incorrectly labelled as an M18, is usable in the game, in a default white version and four special "Emotion" versions which produce coloured smoke which affects the emotions of enemies caught in it; Blue for Cry, Red for Rage, Yellow for Laugh, and Green for Scream.

[[Image:M87.JPG|thumb|none|200px|M83 smoke grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18.jpg|thumb|none|601px|M83 smoke grenade on the item menu. This grenade produces white smoke.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18-Emot.jpg|thumb|none|601px|One of the four coloured "emotion" smoke grenades available after completing the game once. This is the yellow "Laugh" grenade.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Faced with the rebel BMP-3 in the first Act, the Praying Mantis PMC soldiers decide that discretion is the better part of valour, one throwing an M83 smoke grenade to cover their retreat.]]

==Magazine==

A 30-round STANAG 5.56x45mm magazine can be thrown to distract enemies. One magazine is added to the stock every time a weapon's magazine is fully depleted; regardless of the weapon, it will always be shown as this type when thrown. Unlike ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', the reloading animation correctly shows Snake retaining the old mag during the reload rather than discarding it and then having it in his inventory anyway.

[[Image:MGS4-Magazine.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Magazine on the item menu.]]

==Mk 2 Hand Grenade==

During the PMC commercials before the game proper begins, two live-action combatants are seen duelling in mid-air as the camera sweeps around them. As they move close, the one in white reaches down to produce a [[Mk 2 hand grenade]], with another attached to her belt. Mk 2 grenades are also used by Genome Soldiers in the ''MGS1'' nightmare sequence if Snake enters a vent during an alert.

[[Image:MK2 grenade DoD.jpg|thumb|none|200px|Mk 2 hand grenade|Mk 2 "Pineapple" high-explosive fragmentation hand grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the PMC commercial, one of the fighting-or-something women produces a Mk 2 grenade from her belt.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The grey object visible above the Genome Soldier's left hand is the fuze of a Mk 2 grenade. Since the ''MGS1'' soldiers always have a rifle in their right hand, they are shown pulling the pins with their mouth; apparently Big Boss' superior soldier genes include some for superior soldier teeth.]]

==Molotov cocktail==

Molotov cocktails, referred to as "Petro Bomb" in game, are used in place of grenades by rebel soldiers in the first two Acts, and can be picked up by Snake, functioning as less effective versions of the WP grenade which ignite on impact.

[[Image:MGS4-Molotov.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"Petro Bomb" on the item menu.]]

==Valmera 69==

An Italian Valmera 69 bounding anti-personnel mine is featured as the "S.G. Mine," with SG presumably standing for "Sleep Gas." These contact-triggered mines instantly knock out anyone who triggers them, including Snake himself, though they can be triggered with gunfire or defused by crawling over them or picking them up with Metal Gear Mk. 2. Some are found in the Advent Palace hotel in the first Act.

[[Image:130705-004-42B40A6D.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Italian Valmera 69 land mine (centre).]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"S.G. Mine" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Apparently showing up as hot on thermal isn't enough for these mines, which are also concealed through clever application of a bright blue body and a big silly light on the top.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the unlikely case that Snake manages to trigger one, the entire mine jumps into the air; this is incorrect, as the Valmera, like most bounding mines, has an outer body containing the bounding body and propelling charge; only the bounding body should jump into the air.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake does not have time to consider this, due to the loss of his entire Psyche gauge and the resultant urgent need for a nap.]]

=="S.G. Satchel"==

The "S.G. Satchel" is a manually triggered gas bomb which Snake can place as a trap. It appears to be loosely based on a blast-resistant anti-tank mine such as the Italian VS-3.6 anti-tank mine; the ridges on the device's body are typical of such mines.

[[Image:Vs-3.6anti-tankmine.jpg|thumb|none|400px|VIS-3.6 anti-tank mine.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Satchel.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"S.G. Satchel" on the item menu.]]

=Mounted Weaponry=

==BGM-71 TOW==

The bipedal "Gekko" unmanned weapons are sometimes equipped with a launch unit for two [[BGM-71 TOW]] missiles on one of their weapon mounting points. These weapons are never usable by the player.

[[Image:Tow 07.jpg|thumb|none|400px|BGM-71 TOW mounted on M220 tripod - 152mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-TOW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake is ambushed by a "Gekko" unmanned vehicle crashing through a wall, equipped with an M2 Browning heavy machine gun and twin TOW launch tubes.]]
[[Image:MGS-TOW-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After Snake successfully evades the easily-fooled Gekko, they are called away.]]

==Browning M2HB==

The [[M2HB]] is mounted on Stryker APC and MGS variants and HMMWVs in game, and is also the principle dorsal armament of the Gekko bipedal IFVs. They can also occasionally be found mounted in fixed emplacements.

[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the Praying Mantis PMC's "Gekko" unmanned vehicles, armed with a Protector M151 Remote Weapon Station and twin BGM-71 TOW anti-tank missiles. The Gekko also mounts a lighter machine gun in the "beak," but this is completely concealed by armour and impossible to identify.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-3.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Strykers in ''MGS4'' also mount the Protector M151 Remote Weapon Station, equipped with an M2 Browning heavy machine gun.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Pieuvre Armement PMC Stryker is seen at the start of the second Act.]]
[[File:MGS4M2HB-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake mans a Browning M2HB on top of Drebin's Stryker at the end of Act 2. Oddly, despite that the gun is mounted in an M151 Protector RWS, Snake insists on sitting on top of the vehicle to use it.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the third Act, the Raven Sword PMC makes extensive use of HMMWV ("Humvee") light trucks armed with Browning M2 heavy machine guns. While the Young Snake disguise won't get Snake by these, apparently Colonel Campbell is allowed out and about after curfew.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The combined US Army / Marine taskforce sent to deal with Liquid Ocelot on the Volta in Act 3 turn up in force, including a number of Mark V Special Operations Craft, each armed with four M2 heavy machine guns mounted on the sides of the rear deck.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Liquid Ocelot's boat in Act 3 is a Swedish-designed Combat Boat 90 modified to mount a turret with what appears to be the AMOS twin 120mm mortar system; this modification has been used on British CB-90s. More normal for the class are the twin M2 Browning heavy machine guns mounted in a compartment forward of the helmsman's position, and visible here behind the FROG soldier on the left.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The gun cameras on Shadow Moses in Act 4 are based on the M2, with a shortened barrel and a rather undersized drum.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sneaks up on a mounted M2 Browning during the game's second Act. Knowing Snake's stealthy ways, it will later find it has much less ammo and is pointed in a different direction, and will never figure out why.]]
[[File:MGS4M2HB-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M2 Browning mounted on Drebin's Stryker.]]

==General Electric M134 Minigun==

During the second Act, soldiers of the Pieuvre Armement PMC are seen wearing suits of powered armour equipped with [[GE M134]] miniguns on their right arms. Oddly, these power suit soldiers only appear as enemies once in the entire game, in one area of the on-rails vehicle section at the end of Act 2.

[[Image:M134.JPG|thumb|none|400px|General Electric M134 - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M134.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two power suits are visible at the top of the shot, both with arm-mounted miniguns.]]

==General Electric M61A1 Vulcan==

Secondary armament of Metal Gears Rex and Ray is a pair of [[M61 Vulcan]] 20mm rotary guns; Ray mounts them on the tips of the two wing-like underwater propulsion units on its shoulders, while Rex mounts them under the projections either side of the pilot's "beak." While the latter is claimed to be 30mm by the game, Metal Gear Rex has not changed size since Otacon called them "Vulcan cannons" in ''MGS1'' and the weapons are not large enough to be GAU-8s. The battleship USS ''Missouri'' also mounts M61 Vulcans in her Phalanx CIWS installations.

[[Image:M61vulcan.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Electric / General Dynamics M61 Vulcan - 20mm.]]
[[Image:Phalanx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GE M61 Vulcan in a Phalanx mounting - 20mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The damaged cover of Metal Gear Rex's left-hand gun shows it to be a six-barrelled M61 Vulcan, despite the game labelling it as a much larger seven-barrelled 30mm GAU-8.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As in ''MGS2'', Metal Gear Ray's Vulcans are mounted at the tips of the two propulsor "wings," forcing the vehicle to position itself incredibly awkwardly to fire. Here, Ray opens fire on Metal Gear Rex in the finale of the fourth Act.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the final Act, Snake's base of operations becomes the USS ''Missouri'', which is recreated in loving detail and the subject of many dramatic shots. Here, a shot of the ''Missouri's'' flank as she approaches the submarine arsenal ship ''Outer Haven'' shows off her Mark 12 5-inch/38 calibre dual-purpose guns, angled RGM-84 Harpoon launch tubes and two of the M61A1 Vulcan cannons in Phalanx installations on her superstructure.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As Outer Haven launches a volley of Harpoon anti-ship missiles at the USS ''Missouri'', "Mighty Mo" responds with her dual-purpose guns and Phalanx installations.]]

== Kalashnikov PKT ==

During the first Act, the rebels assault Praying Mantis PMC positions with a Russian BMP-3 IFV. The BMP-3 is the world's most heavily armed IFV, packing in a 2A70 100mm low velocity gun / missile launcher, a coaxial 2A72 30mm autocannon, six 81mm 902V "Tucha" smoke grenade launchers and three [[PK Machine Gun|PKT machine guns]], one coaxial and two bow-mounted.

[[Image:Machine gun PKT.jpg|thumb|400px|none|PKT machine gun with 250-round ammo drum - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:MGS4-BMP3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The rebel BMP makes a grand entrance, firing off its bow-mounted PKT machine guns.]]
[[Image:MGS4-BMP3-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|If Snake has been nice to the rebels, this is a happy sight; if not, it may be time to be ''really'' stealthy.]]

==M224 Mortar==

During the first two Acts, a number of [[M224 Mortar]]s set up by rebel forces can be found and used by the player; these are aimed with a HUD indicator showing the round's trajectory, ending in an area-of-effect circle at the point of detonation. They have infinite ammunition.

[[Image:M224-60mm-mortar.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M224 Mortar - 60mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mortar.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake discovers the hard way that the mortar wasn't designed to be used as a pillow.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mortar-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vowing to never speak of his bad sleeping experience again, Snake decides to dispose of any witnesses, dropping a 60mm round into his M224 mortar after sighting up a hapless PMC soldier manning an M2 Browning.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mortar-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake admires his handiwork and shows off his amazingly flexible definition of "sneaking mission."]]

==M230 Chaingun==

PMC hybrid helicopters based on the Boeing X-50 Dragonfly aircraft / helicopter concept are armed with a chin-mounted [[M230 Chain Gun]].

[[Image:Hughes-M230-Chain-Gun3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hughes/Alliant Techsystems M230 Chain Gun - 30mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M230-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A PMC attack helicopter comes in to support Praying Mantis troops during the first level, showing off its chin-mounted M230. While these helicopters appear many times during the game, they never receive a name; they were finally given the name "Hammerhead" in ''[[Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance]]''.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M230.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sights up a PMC attack helicopter with his VSS Vintorez as it fires its chaingun at rebels nearby. This is unlikely to end well for him.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M230-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the PMC hybrid helicopters in "jet" mode. They are never encountered like this during gameplay, only during the early cutscenes of Act 1. It's worth noting that the real X-50 Dragonfly program was axed due to "inherent design flaws," with neither prototype ever successfully transitioning from rotary-wing to fixed-wing flight.]]

==M240C==

The [[FN_MAG#M240_Machine_Gun|M240C]] is seen mounted coaxially on the remaining Abrams tank in Shadow Moses Island's tank hangar.

[[Image:M240C.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240C vehicle coaxial-mount version - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M240C.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake admires the remaining Abrams in the tank hangar, standing under the M256 120mm L/44 main gun. Note the CIS mounted on top of the turret right of the commander's Browning M2; apparently the magical elves which have been maintaining Metal Gear Rex since the island was abandoned took time out to update ''MGS1's'' M1A1 to A2 standard.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M240C-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A view from the upper walkway of the tank hangar. ''MGS4'' doesn't take sides on whether the Abrams in the first game had two Browning M2s as in ''Metal Gear Solid'' or an M2 and an M240D as in ''Twin Snakes''; the remaining tank in the hangar has no loader's weapon at all.]]

== Yakushev-Borzov Yak-B ==

Liquid Snake's crashed Hind-D can be found in the snowfield around the Comm Towers in Act 4, with the chin-mounted [[Yakushev-Borzov Yak-B]] gatling gun buried in the snow. Other Hinds can be seen in the PMC advertisements at the very beginning of the game; at least one of those seen, however, is a Hind-A which would have a different, single-barrel chin gun.

[[Image:YakB-12.7.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Yakushev-Borzov Yak-B machine gun - 12.7x108mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Hind-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake finds the crashed Hind-D in a corner of the snowfield. "Bad dog! What did Snake tell you about destroying the helicopter?"]]
[[Image:MGS4-Hind-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During one of the introduction's confusing PMC commercials, an Mi-24 Hind-A is briefly visible circling two people in vaguely Middle-Eastern dress; it can be identified as such by the early "greenhouse" side-by-side cockpit rather than the later twin bubble canopy. This means it would mount a single-barrel gun rather than a Yak-B; it is included here for the sake of noting this.]]

=Other=

=="Rail Gun"==

The fictional handheld railgun used by Fortune in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty|MGS2]]'' returns in ''Metal Gear Solid 4'' attached to the quadrupedal armour of B&B Corps member Crying Wolf; the weapon is mounted to the "Beast" armour's shoulder, and can only be used when the cockpit is open. Following the battle, the railgun is made available to the player for free; it features a 3-step charge up activated by aiming the weapon and a digital scope with a charge level indicator. The gun no longer has the issues with runaway firing described in ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', where it was stated the project was cancelled for this reason and only Fortune with her "good luck" could use it effectively. Despite the railgun being roughly the size of a motorcycle, it apparently still somehow fits inside the foot-tall Metal Gear Mk. 2 and Snake has no trouble hefting it and aiming it. It also does not produce deafening sonic booms even though as stated in MGS2, it accelerates its projectiles to Mach 42 (42 times the speed of sound or 46,400 feet ''per second'').
The railgun itself seems to have been created using either the same wooden motion capture prop as the one used for ''Metal Gear Solid 2's'' MoCap work or a reproduction of it; the design incorporates elements of a number of experimental and prototype high-tech weapons, but the weapon as a whole is a work of fiction.

[[Image:MGS4-Railgun.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"Railgun" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake continues to make a mockery of the idea that he keeps his inventory in anything resembling a backpack.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the railgun; note the magazine in Snake's left hand is proportioned like a pistol mag, since it only contains projectiles with no propellant.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake uses the scope of the railgun to sight up a Gekko hanging from the ceiling in Shadow Moses' casting and rolling facility. The horizontal bars fill in as it charges, while the lower vertical bar is an ammunition counter.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With the Railgun slung over the right shoulder, Crying Wolf's quadrupedal "beast" armour manages the entirely impossible feat of stopping and then lifting a Caterpillar D9 bulldozer with an Israeli-standard up-armour package. This vehicle weighs as much as a main battle tank, and no matter how strong the "beast" is its legs would dig into the ground before it could ever hope to pull this off.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Three Acts later, Crying Wolf takes aim at Snake in the snowfield on Shadow Moses island; strangely, in this cutscene the railgun has an analog zoom on the scope rather than the two-setting digital zoom it has when Snake uses it. This is also the only time the railgun is seen with the armature extended when it isn't being charged.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake hefts the railgun as he prepares to take on a force of Gekko bent on destroying Metal Gear Rex's hangar. Despite that he could barely lift it when he picked it up after defeating Crying Wolf, he uses it just fine the rest of the time.]]

==Tanegashima==

A Japanese clone of a Portugese muzzleloading matchlock arquebus design, the [[Tanegashima]] is basically a joke weapon that can only be reloaded while standing, taking a lot of time to do so for only moderate damage and accuracy; costing one million Drebin Points, it's a very expensive joke at that. However, there is a one-third chance that when the Tanegashima is fired outdoors it will instead summon a tornado, travelling in the direction the muzzle was aimed, which will knock enemies down and scatter their items everywhere. It is extremely silly.

[[Image:TanegashimaGun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Japanese "Tanegashima" matchlock arquebus. Tanegashima was the site of the first contact Japan had with European traders, and these firearms were copies of traded Portugese guns.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket.jpg|thumb|none|601px|"Tanegashima" arquebus on the item menu. Note this weapon is rather ridiculously placed in the "Assault Rifle" class, when it could have just as easily have been placed in the "Other" class ingame.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aims down the iron sight of his Tanegashima arquebus. Note that only one end of the match is lit; typically on a real matchlock, both ends would be lit in case one end was extinguished accidentally.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading involves a suitable amount of fiddling around with the weapon's ramrod, followed by a series of hard-to-make-out actions which are presumably refilling the flash pan, resetting the serpentine and replacing the match.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sometimes it's even worth it.]]

{{Metal Gear Series}}

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Third-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:Stealth]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:Thriller]]
[[Category:Drama]]
[[Category:Japanese Produced/Filmed]]
[[Category:Covert-ops]]

Talk:Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

2016-08-26T01:25:54Z

Bristow8411: /* Operator or TRP Operator? */

== Replacing the infobox image ==

[[File:MGS4poster.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Infobox image as of now]]

I really don't consider this pic... well... "identifiable MGS4 imagery." Like Jesus, I think that's the beta character model of in-game Snake shown in early trailers, right!? Like take a quick peek at the images in [http://thesnakesoup.org/editorial-articles/tokyo-game-show-2005-get-the-fuck-over-it/ this awesome yet dated article] for comparisons.

Anyway, ''I'm in favor of installing pic below instead.'' The above image seems to be the prototype of the final North American cover (as shown below) and atleast the people are way more familiar with this than... Whatever the thing above is ripped from. (''Where'' *is* it from?)

[[File:MGS4_North_American_Cover.jpg|thumb|none|300px|MGS4 North American cover]]

Or alternatively
* [http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080511045406/metalgear/images/c/c5/LE.jpg North American Special Edition Cover]
* [http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080407204745/metalgear/images/e/e7/MGS4_European_Cover.jpg European Cover]
* [http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121107145935/metalgear/images/d/d6/10650061-1352291151-833499.jpg European "MGS 25th Anniversary" reprint edition cover]

Open for opinions. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 14:35, 28 February 2015 (EST)

:I would like to see the MGS4 NA cover become the new infobox picture; it's probably the best-known cover for this game. Besides, it also showcases how Old Snake was deliberately modelled to resemble [[Lee Van Cleef]] in his later years.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 19:30, 28 February 2015 (EST)

'''''And it is done.''''' And now the whole article looks so much better! [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 03:54, 9 July 2015 (EDT)

== Airsoft 1911 ==
Are you absolutely sure the airsoft gun wasn't based on the gun in the game?-protoAuthor
:What are you talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:10, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
::You say the custom 1911 was based on an airsoft gun. Are you sure it wasn't the other way around?-protoAuthor
::I also agree that the gun isn't based off the one in the pic for that weapon. Aside from it being an airsoft gun, it is a compact version of a 1911 when Big Boss's 1911 was a fullsize. Also, the slide serrations are slanted wheras the ones on big boss's weapon were vertical like those on the original 1911. Neither one has anything to do with the other, I think the image should be removed.

the 'source' for the statement 'Big Boss's gun is based off a custom airsoft' is http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/gameguns.html

However, I view this with a huge degree of skepticism. For starters, as mentioned, the barrel/slide seems to be longer on Big Boss's gun. But even if it is based on an airsoft gun, the airsoft gun itself is based on a standard real-world 1911 with real world features. So it's just one step removed from raw, hands on research. But then again, I don't think most game companies actually buy real versions of the guns they are modeling, they just look around for photos of them. It's like saying 'the model for the gun in this game isn't based on a REAL M-16, it's based on pictures of an M-16'

That 'source' mentions that the gun was produced by Sheriff Co. Given that Sheriff is mentioned in the MGS3 credits it's actually quite likely that it was in fact modeled off an airsoft gun. However, the one in the picture is obviously not the one in the game.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 19:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I know that Western Arms did an airsoft version of the MGS3 custom 1911 after the game was released. I wasn't aware of an airsoft gun like that existing before MGS3 was released. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:30, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

== DSR-1 ==

It can also be found in South America when following Naomi's trail, just follow the wrong footsteps from the point where you can also find hand trails. You will hear Naomi crying for help (from a radio) and a sniper will wait for you to come. She has the DSR-1 with her.

== In game pistures ==

Someone needs to post ingame pictures of the guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

this shot gun (http://www.gunsamerica.com/926290644/Guns/Shotguns/Ithaca-Shotguns/SxS/Ithaca_NID_New_Ithaca_Field_Grade.htm) looks alot like the "twin barrel" in the game.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.22|184.35.22.22]] 22:34, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mark 23 Mod 1? ==
''According to the Metal Gear Wiki, the gun they used as a reference in MGS4 is actually an experimental "Phase 2" model that is currently undergoing testing by the US Navy.''

No, actually it says that ''the SOCOM presented in MGS1, MGS2 and MGS4 is in fact the Phase II model handgun submitted for trials in the USSOCOM Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) competition around the later part of 1991, and not the actual production model of the Mk.23 Mod 0''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

::I wrote that -- the differences were the LAM, front serrations on the slide, markings, and the hammer looked different too. By the time the Mk23 was received in May '96, these details bad been changed; both for the military and civilian versions of the pistol. Overall, they're mostly aesthetic changes. -- Orca*

==Screenshots needed==

This page needs someone with enough effort to add pictures for all of these guns. -GM

:I can't do screencaps, but I did add some details about some of the weapons such as where they can be found and such. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:I would agree that a game with this many weapons would be much better with more relevant screencaps, especially ones without watermarks. More relevant information about the guns themselves would also be welcome.

==Why the strange biases towards certain weapons and calibers in this game?==

It seems odd to me why the weapon/caliber selection is so odd in this game. Metal Gear Solid has been one of the best game series to prominently display the real names of every gun in the game, but I have to wonder if some of those companies Kojima got permission from paid him to underplay the abilities of other guns in this game.

For the calibers, it seems mighty odd that the Glock 18c is the only 9x19mm pistol in the entire game. Not even the rebels or militia use older 9x19mm pistols, which is very odd because you'd think that of the vast majority of older pistols that escaped the worldwide mandatory ID lock systems that is mentioned in the game's backstory would be 9x19mm pistols. Not even something like a Beretta M9 is used by the PMC troopers, even though it would be a nice free choice to have in Metal Gear Online.

The game also strangely features 7.62x51mm Battle Rifles where they aren't the most appropriate, such as how the PMCs use the FN SCAR-H even in the confines of urban ruins (as in Act 1) or an intact city (as in Act 3). Only the South American countryside in Act 2 would be an appropriate location for those Battle Rifles in the hands of general troopers. You'd think that Kojima with his weaponry knowledge would give them assault rifles/PDWs/shotguns instead while in urban operations, but that's somehow not the case.

Did H&K and FN pay Kojima to include (and in turn, advertise) their products a great deal in this highly-anticipated and wildly popular game? FN has the Five-SeveN, the P90, the SCAR-H, and the FAL all in the game, while H&K has the SOCOM pistol, the MP5SD2, the XM8, the G3A3, and the HK21E. Colt products and their users by contrast don't get that kind of exposure--Colt M4s are rare, and Colt M16s are completely non-existent in this game. I also think it's telling that the FN P90 has its 50 round magazine, a combat sight, a flashlight and a suppressor, but its competitor, the H&K MP7 has only a red dot sight and is stuck with its 20 round magazine (not its upgraded 40 round magazine) according to this game just can't compete.

Contrary to what some posters on this wiki have said elsewhere, I don't believe this game is biased towards the latest and greatest weapons in general, as several weapons here such as the Vz. 83, the FN FAL carbine, the G3A3, the MAC-10, the Mosin Nagant, the PKM, the RPG-7 and the SVD Dragonuv are quite old.

Kojima definitely spent some time doing weapons research for this game, but did he ever come out with a reason as to why the game chose such odd additions to its arsenal? His personal favourite gun is the Barret M82, something not suited for general combat, so maybe he himself doesn't know as much as the ingame info might imply. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the same arguments could be said about any of the Tom Clancy games like Rainbow Six Vegas and it's whoring worth of H&K weaponry [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

It would seem to me that if HK and FN paid Kojima off to showcase (or "whore out", whichever you reading this prefers) their tech, weapons like the XM8 and SCAR-H wouldn't be seemingly outclassed by the M4. You can kit the M4 out with anything and everything, while the SCAR-H lacks a suppressor and grenade launcher (severely hindering its flexibility) and the only thing the XM8 gets is the grenade launcher. Heck, the M4 is pretty much a CQB, grenadier, and designated marksman carbine all in one package (and I typically use it as such, often foregoing the actual ''sniper rifles'' in the game in long range combat for the M4 equipped with an ACOG). If HK or FN had paid him off, it would seem logical for the M4 to be totally outclassed in-game by both the XM8 and SCAR-H. Not only those points, but the M4 and the 1911s (I say 1911s collectively because cutscenes seem to automatically replace every non-1911 pistol in your inventory with the Operator) are implied to be Snake's signature weapons this time around. If he were paid off, why aren't the Mark 23 and XM8 or Five-Seven and SCAR-H his signature weapons? Also where's the PSG1, the so-called "greatest sniper rifle in the world" (or so HK says)? And I also feel the urge to point out that the HK21E has '''0''' modifications for it as well as a ridiculously slow ROF, which makes the M60E4 ''clearly'' superior to it. Now, I'm not exactly ''defending'' either company here, but it just seems to me that if they had paid Kojima off, the biases pointed out here would be far more extreme. As it stands, I just think Kojima wanted the weapons he likes the most to be the ones players used the most. Regarding the "old" weapons in the game, they may have seen a few years, yes, but FALs, G3s, Dragunovs, PKs, and above all the RPG-7 are so ubiquitous today that we'll be seeing them on modern battlefields, ''especially'' ones in the Middle East, for decades to come. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

:Actually, now that I've spent some time thinking about it, the M4 and M1911 in MGS4 may not actually be Colt products at all. After all, didn't a court decision in real life rule that an M4 is a type of firearm and not a Colt trademark at all? It's kind of like how an "M1911-style pistol" is also a type of pistol, not a Colt trademark which is why there are dozens if not hundreds of kinds of "M1911-style pistols" for sale on the general market today. I wonder if Kojima asked Colt to use their trademarks and got rebuffed for whatever reason, which might have caused him to withdraw the M4s from the PMCs and substitute FN SCAR-Hs until someone told him he could just call it an M4 (though not a Colt M4) and avoid copyright infringement.

:On the issue of customizability, I think the M4's customizability compared to, for instance, the XM8 and FN SCAR-H is a bit of laziness on the part of Kojima. I don't think there's any reason why they couldn't just stick the M14 EBR's suppressor model on the end of the FN SCAR-H or G3A3 and turn those two into suppressed firearms, for instance. They could have also stuck the M4's suppressor model onto the AK-101 or XM8 as well (in my opinion the XM8's integral red dot sight in MGS4 is easier to use than the M4's, being a great deal less claustrophobic than the M4's version). Something like the FN EGLM would have been nice on the SCAR-H (or the SCAR-L had they bothered to give the PMCs assault rifles in urban areas) but unlike the M320 or GP-30, would only have gone on one weapon (unless the SCAR-L was included) and possibly not have been good on the cost-benefit analysis. But my point, that the customizability of many of the weapon systems (where are the PSO-1 scopes for the AN-94 and AK-102, for instance?) is more an artifact of the design decision than the reality of the weapons in question. Of course, even with the full "real-life" customizability, the M4 would still be the only one capable of carrying an underslung shotgun, which I think is unique enough (though I bet the XM8 could have gotten one had it been adopted, and I'm sure one will be designed for the FN SCAR models if it proves itself in the field enough).

:Oh, and one of the reasons why you can snipe with the M4 is because the game over-emphasizes headshots and doesn't implement ballistic physics for bullets. If it did, bullet drop would come into play (especially since the M4's short barrel means that less velocity and energy is imparted to the bullet, resulting in less effective range), moreso with the M4 than the FN SCAR-H or M14 EBR for instance. I think the game would have been more fun if helmets were stronger (for instance, 5 helmet hits from most pistol weapons to kill, 3 helmet hits from 5.56mm weapons to kill someone, or 2 7.62x51mm/PDW ammunition hits, or 1 9x39mm/shotgun slug hit), forcing the player to aim for the exposed face or neck to guarantee a one-hit headshot kill).

:I only mentioned those weapons as "old" so as to defuse claims that Kojima was only focussed on the "latest and greatest."

:It would have been nice if a PSG-1 and FAMAS (both weapons used in MGS1) showed up in the game for old time's sake, but that was not to be. Still, that doesn't resolve the question of why HK's PDW (the MP7A1) is so inferior to FN's PDW (the P90) in this game. Even the wikipedia image of the MP7A1 shows it with a suppressor and 40 round magazine, along with custom optics. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:25, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::Play on a higher difficulty level. The strength of the PMC's helmets varies. On the easiest level, a single 9mm round will punch through. On the highest level, it takes a couple of rounds of 7.62 NATO to punch through. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:50, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

One imagines a general switch from assault rifles back to battle rifles would occur in a world where you might reasonably expect to encounter extremely tough infantry armour or power suits; given the nature of the PMCs as private entities, being "equipped for anything" is probably a selling point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:23, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:Sure, but if you're really "equipped for anything" you'd issue what's needed for the environment. And the PMCs in Act 2 (South America) still use the SCAR-H CQC even though in open countryside that barrel length is more of a liability than anything else. Even the Leftist insurgents are using full-size G3A3s in that stage. In a battle rifle, the shorter the barrel, the more of the cartridge's energy goes to waste as useless muzzle flash and sound. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::To be fair, Pieuvre Armement also have more support weapons than any of the other PMCs (snipers, HMGs, grenade launchers, and a lot of mounted guns) and it looks like they were primarily hired to defend key government structures rather than fight it out in the open. Perhaps with the SCARs they just got a bulk discount, or given it's a private entity it could just be one of the directors like the look of the weapon / someone was impressed by the salesman's spiel / someone was sleeping with someone else / whatever. Out of game, it makes some sense; it means you only need one set of gestures coded for NPC / rifle no matter what level they're in. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:19, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:If Kojima's aim was to make the FN SCAR-H a "this is one of the signature enemy NPC guns" type of thing, then that does make some sense, but that doesn't even cover how many Pieuvre Armement troopers can be found patrolling in the open, sometimes ambushed by Leftist insurgents, or the lack of customizability options for the FN SCAR-H.

:Furthermore, if Kojima and his team could afford the time and money to put the KAC Masterkey on the M4A1 Carbine (an accessory that can be mounted on no other weapon in this game) you could just as easily do the same kind of work and stick an FN EGLM grenade launcher to the SCAR-H (it uses the same swing-out cylinder as does the M320 grenade launcher, so the animations would be largely the same), to say nothing of a suppressor or the LSS underslung shotgun for the XM8. And why not rip off the Mk. 14 Mod 0's suppressor to use on the SCAR-H, G3A3 or the FAL carbine? Before you tell me "they don't have barrel threading," neither does Snake's Operator pistol, his very first suppressed lethal weapon. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:31, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
::Uh dude, Snake's Operator does have a threaded barrel, did you even look at the pics... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:41, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I stand corrected, the thumbnail made the threading blend together into a featureless grey. Regardless, my other points stand. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:55, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I think the idea was to make players want to use the M4 over other weapons (I guess to emphasise it), so the SCAR couldn't be as good as it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:07, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Noteworthy is the fact that the Masterkey in reality doesn't come in a rail-mounted version like is shown in-game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:44, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

== Mk. 23 Mod 0 ==
I just have to ask this; why does Snake like using the H&K Mk. 23? I mean, from everything I've heard/read about them, the USP compact tactical variant is much better, so why doesn't Snake use that?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 16:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

He uses it because the designers wanted him to use it. And if you've ever shot a Mk23 you'd know that it is vastly superior to the entire USP series in every possible way other than weight and weight shouldnt be an issue you're looking for a combat handgun.
-Double Agent M

:Um, yes, weight ''is'' an issue in a combat handgun. Weight is ''always'' an issue when it comes to the weapons and gear used by soldiers. That's why the Mark 23 ''failed'' as a combat handgun and lavished on supply shelves instead of inside holsters like the various 1911 makes and even the entire USP series. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I've been meaning to ask this for a while now on the HK Mk. 23's page, but since this was brought up, I might as well ask it here: why ''was'' the Mk. 23 made so big and bulky in the first place, if its performance could have been replicated in the smaller USP series? It's close in size to the Desert Eagle despite firing a smaller (and more combat-practical) cartridge. Was it to ensure ruggedness, resistance to salt water damage, and reliability? Or something else? It's always puzzled me about this pistol that is one of the signature weapons of the Metal Gear Solid series (making appearances in 1, 2, and 4). Of course, it could be that Kojima just thinks it's a "cool gun" . . . --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Its weight helps counteract recoil, the elongated barrel improves accuracy, and right out of the box it can be fitted with a suppressor and a LEM. It's bulky enough so that if you need to you can beat a man to death with it. It's a fantastic combat handgun but where it loses out to Berettas and Colts is in complexity. Because of it's raw size you cant just whip it around and the controls can take some getting used to. It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm.
-Double Agent M

:Supposedly the USP Compact Tactical can mount a suppressor and Laser Aiming Module, but only has 8 rounds in .45 ACP. Also, as a "Offensive Handgun Weapons System," the SOCOM pistol supposed to be usable as a primary weapon when killing is supposed to be done discreetly, such as many situations in the Metal Gear Solid series. On paper I can see why it's better, but if the hands-on experience of operators deems it as "uncomfortable to carry and use," then their complaints trump the on-paper benefits.

:Of course, "uncomfortable" and "hard to use" is a bit of a relative term, since training and practice can certainly acclimatise someone to almost any well-designed weapons system, but that takes time, money, and perseverance. Given that handguns are hardly a primary weapon system anymore, and the majority those who do professionally use them as such (such as average beat cops) don't train with them to be expert shooters most of the time, I suppose ease of use is a major factor because it's the easier way out instead of spending time to get used to a better-on-paper but less-user-friendly weapon. If "better-on-paper" mattered more, wouldn't the FBI be using Glock 20 pistols instead of Glock 22 pistols? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:48, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with you. :) But I'd still love to get a hold of one and try it for myself. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:: "It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm." <-I love this kind of thing. Sure, a pistol that's a foot and an half long with a suppressor and weighs as much as an empty MP5 is a much better compliment to your primary weapon than it's weight in extra magazines ''for'' that primary weapon. Think you needed to lay off the HK propaganda there, "Agent M." To actually answer the question, they used the Mk23 because it's huge and blocky (same reason Meryl got that 50 AE Deagle), so it's easy for the player to see it in Snake's hands and for the PS1 to render it. Simple as that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:42, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:::I've heard from a lot people who actually own MK 23s and they say that their excellent weapons (and no, it was not "HK propaganda"). - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::::From what I've heard, they're excellent weapons in terms of accuracy (which comes from being gigantic and heavy) but not something you'd want to take into combat; they're too big for a backup weapon and not capable enough as a primary weapon. Also, anyone who drops the cost of a Mk23 on a pistol is going to have thought it was an excellent weapon ''before'' they bought it, otherwise they never would have done so in the first place. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:56, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::::I would buy one, but hey, a four pound .44 Magnum revolver feels like nothing in my hands, and I'm only a medium-sized guy with not much of a build. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:::::Not sure if anyone has noticed this, but is it me, or the MK 23 is listed in the menu as actually much lighter than it is IRL? Maybe that's why it is so popular in the MG universe... --[[User:Researcher|Researcher]] 20:18, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

::::::I always thought the reasoning behind the design and adoption of the Mark 23 initially, was because the weapon could handle ridiculously hot ammunition loads without exploding, something special forces occasionally use, which would normally destroy any "lighter" handgun. Out of the box, the Mk23 alongside the USP line, was one of the few handguns capable of firing .45 Super (not 100% on this) and the reliability of the weapon was insane for the time of its introduction as it could and still can take immense abuse. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 06:41, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

The MK23 is too heavy to be considered a practical firearm, too big to be quickly drawn from the holster if needed, sure the added weight can help reduce recoil, and the good magazine capacity is a plus, but that's really all that it has going for it, it was developed for the Navy SEALS SOCOM unit, and they don't even like it, preferring the smaller and more user friendly SIG SAUER P226, so if an actual military unit thinks the pistol is crap, then quite honestly, it's crap.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 19:10, 9 May 2012 (CDT)
:It's not that much heavier than a 1911. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:48, 16 March 2013 (EDT)
::Yeah, but it's supposed to be issued as a "system" with the suppressor and LAM. With those it's over a foot long and weighs as much as two and a half loaded Glocks (or almost as much as an empty AS Val). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:01, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

== Meryl's Desert Eagle ==

Just how "combat-effective" would the ballistics of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle be? What might the effective range be, and would it regularly penetrate the body armour of the FROG troopers she faces? Or would she be better off with an 40-round MP7A1 (to go with the theme of "biggest to smallest" weapons of the Rat Patrol) when fighting the FROG troopers in Advent Palace and Outer Haven? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

*I've got an Airsoft Desert Eagle (bought many years ago, mind) that came with both barrels, and it's weighted to the point you can see what a bad idea it is: it's ridiculously front-heavy with that barrel extension, and I imagine with a scope as well it'd probably weigh as much as the MP7 anyway. So maybe it could penetrate body armour and maybe it couldn't, but you'd still have better ergo from using a 1911 duct-taped to the head of a banjo. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:21, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Okay, so that Airsoft model exactly duplicates the loaded weight of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle? That's rather interesting. Even if it couldn't penetrate the body armour the FROGs seem to be wearing, would the impact force be enough to inflict blunt trauma on the FROGs, such as broken ribs, concussions, or the like? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:15, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

Well back when I did Airsoft, I played for functionality and being simple. Sure my team and I decked out our guns, but nothing more than red dot sights, and vertical grips. Because it isn't real firearms, we tried to not equip like we would a real weapon because it's not the same thing. Lighter is always better. The less we have to carry, the better. That being said, I would never get an Airsoft Desert Eagle to shoot in games. For fun, yeah. It'll be cool to run around the woods with the 10in barrel and a scope mounted on it, but you wouldn't get any good range with an airsoft pistol anyway, even if it is gas powered. Now a REAL Desert Eagle, I'd get for fun, but that's only after I get my more practical guns first.

Anyway, I think from a character standpoint, Meryl's character is supposed to be a "tough chick" so what's the iconic tough guy gun? A Desert Eagle from the action movies. I don't know if the .50 AE could go through body armor [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Yeah, I just use it for plinking spiders because I have a high ceiling. Bought it because I was a teenager and it was a Desert Eagle, I will make no excuses on that front. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 10:48, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

::lol, I also bought a Airsoft Desert Eagle when I was a teenager and I still have it. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:50, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, living here in Comrade Elizabeth's Glorious People's Republic of Englandstan makes it easy to hang on to it since if I'm reading this correctly I couldn't legally sell it anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

::::lol. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:49, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

:Well I admit before I knew anything about the M16, I was very anti-gun kid in early high school. Then when I got to know guns, I thought the M16 is this Vietnam piece of crap that jams all the time and the AK is the ultimate assault rifle until I grew up and got a more objective view of guns. When buying my first Airsoft, I bought a P90 cause I was a fan of Stargate...then I discovered a P90 Airsoft is useless, inaccurate and has terrible range. So I went and bought an M733, and then realize that you need a longer barrel for range and accuracy and that evolved to my M4 type rifle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:59, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

One more thing; does the reloading style Meryl uses in the fight inside Outer Haven's computer room have a name (where she jams one of her magazines into the crook of her knee while firing with her other hand, before reloading an empty Desert Eagle with the magazine held in her knee)? I see so many adds for shooting schools with patented styles around I have to wonder if this comes from one of them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:11, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Tanegashima rifle ==

Why isn't it on the page?

:Thanks to Evil Tim's hard work, it is now on the page. However, there's something that remains to be investigated; I've heard conflicting reports about whether or not the Tanegashima arquebus will always fire its "divine wind" (translated version of the Japanese word "Kamikaze") tornado if you fire it in the opposite direction of the wind in a singleplayer level. That could be something worth looking into. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:15, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::I'll check up on that; I'd just heard it was a one-third chance per shot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:51, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::Nope, nothing to do with the wind direction, I tried with and against the wind, and in the end it just went off at random like usual. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:17, 3 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see it was just a rumour then. Still, I'm puzzled as to why you didn't take a screenshot highlighting the extreme silliness of the weapon; it would have been worth a chuckle to see a screenshot of PMCs caught in the tornado flying in a spiral while dropping far more items than they could ever carry in real life while collecting their "frequent flier miles."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:57, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well, I accidentally selected Solid Normal rather than Big Wuss Easy, and it's hard enough getting the Tanegashima to do its thing normally, nevermind trying to check how it's affected by the direction of the wind while being shot at. I'm doing enough stupid things to burn through rations as it is :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:58, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see; I guess not all of us have the time to learn how not to get shot up less in this game (here's a tip; going prone or crawling is the best way to use your Octocamo). Would have been nice to see PMCs flying in a big spiral anyhow on this wiki. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:43, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well sure, I can be pretty sneaky when I'm not doing stupid things like seeing if I can get a Gekko to throw a grenade at me. Same as I'm trying to avoid wearing the Octocamo hood even though it's good for your camo index, because it also makes Snake look really stoopid. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Someone needs to finish this page ==

This page is how old and no one has finished it? Someone needs to start doing it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:17, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Well I don't have this game and it's a chore to get all the screenshots second hand [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I've got a much better capture device than I used to, so I could probably do this at some stage; the main problem is I'd have to record it first (since the software with the Dazzle crashes every time I take a screenshot and BSODs the entire computer if I try to take more than one); I'll have a crack at it next time I'm off work. Don't want to just stand in a corner looking at the same thing for every gun, that makes for dull page. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

:Please do. Stealth camo would be useful to take screenshots of weapons in the hands of NPCs (such as the MP7 or the like). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

::Still on this. It's going to take a while before I have time (especially since I'll need to record some of those billion hours of cutscenes), but I haven't forgotten. I'll probably get Twin Snakes and cap the whole series, since doing PS1 MGS1 without first-person aim mode for caps would be a bit pointless. "Look, Snake has a FAMAS! Down there in his hands...oh just click on the damn image and press your nose right up to the screen." Only thing I really need from that is a comparison shot of the Abrams, since the original game's one had two M2 Brownings instead of one. Also I've got an MGS2 trailer somewhere showing Snake with a FAMAS, so I'll have to add that to the 2 page. I'm hoping I can find a picture of the wooden prop version of Fortune's railgun that they built for motion capture. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:31, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Good to know. I'm looking forward to a full version of this page. I would have finished the MGS2 page myself, except that the PC version I have (the official KONAMI port) is somewhat poorly optimized, with some textures missing or improperly rendered (and what do you mean, KONAMI, that we can't use the mouse to aim in FPV or duplicate the pressure sensitive button functions from a PS2 controller with a keyboard?!). Also, the FAMAS in MGS2 is only usable on the demo version of MGS2 (though it does show up in some cutscenes in the Plant chapter for some strange reason). Did they reuse the MGS2 Demo FAMAS for the Twin Snakes? Perhaps you can find out. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:54, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, that'd be worth checking. I heard GIAT (it was still GIAT back then) got very precious about their intellectual property after they realised people wanted to put the FAMAS in games (they're the same about model companies and the LeClerc, Tamiya had to stick their logo and "officially endorsed" on the box of their LeClerc kit) and I think that's why Konami pulled the FAMAS from 2 and never had it turn up again even in 4. Probably they couldn't say no to using it in a remake since they'd already said yes the first time. I've still got the demo of 2 (only reason anyone bought ''Zone of the Enders'', after all) and the FAMAS isn't in that either; it goes from the start of Tanker to the end of the boss fight with Olga, and only gives you the M9 and USP. It was only ever in the early trailers showing Snake on the Tanker. I heard there's some other changes like the guys in the Warhead Storage room using ring airfoil rounds rather than just instakilling you with a radiation leak if you were spotted. Also, you didn't miss anything with the pressure sensitive buttons, trying to half-hold the fire button to aim a rifle in first person was terrible. Apparently the "Tanegashima" is a Japanese copy of a Portugese arquebus design (sayeth Wikipedia, anyway), so I'll have to add that to the page too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:19, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Well, copyright is a sticky situation (go look at one of my earlier comments here and notice how there are no Colt products in this game, despite the presence of an M4A1 Carbine and an M1911). Ubisoft got around it because the FAMAS appears in Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by its real name, so why not MGS4? And I was wrong; the FAMAS is coded within the MGS2 demo, but it is only accessible [http://youtu.be/MxfMCXcpGx8 via a code]. And actually there are a few uses for the pressure-sensitive buttons in MGS2--without them you bang your head against a locker ventilation grille when trying to look out, alerting any nearby enemies. You also can't aim an assault rifle without the pressure-sensitive controls, which made controlling them on the PC next to impossible. Another problem is you can't lower a pistol without firing it if you don't let go of the aiming button gently (I got around this on the PC version by unequipping my weapon). Finally, the distance you throw grenades is determined by how hard you press the pressure-sensitive button (but they were almost useless anyway since throwing a frag or flashbang grenade automatically causes an alert upon detonation and frags have a small damage radius). All this made for a frustratingly bad PC port, which is why I caved in and got the PS2 version afterwards. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:20, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

Well, made a start before realising I'm going to have to crop the borders off every image by hand. :( Ah well, they're just placeholders anyway just so we can get rid of the IGN watermarks and have actual game images. For now they can keep the borders and I'll replace them all when I do this page properly. I hope you appreciate my sacrifice, I had to uninstall Vanquish to get these. Stupid 40 gig PS3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:35, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Good work so far Tim. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:40, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

*Ok, I'll put up the explosives later today (since we don't have them at all). I'm fairly sure the railgun qualifies as reasonably believable; it was actually built as a physical object (a wooden MoCap prop) and looks like an XM25 that's eaten its Wheaties. And then everyone else's Wheaties. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:29, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Anyone remember where the PMCs with standalone Masterkeys show up? I think it's somewhere in Act 2, but I can't remember if you have to cause an alert or if they're just ahead of where I stopped recording (partway through Confinement Facility). Also, don't worry, the shots aren't all going to be from Act 2. Also added a spoiler warning since, well, I can hardly ''not'' have a shot of A Certain Person holding the Patriot, and the fourth Act being on Shadow Moses is kind of a spoiler too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:There's definitely at least one in the Confinement Facility, check out about 10:50 of this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg87rbI3CXU#t=10m50s], there's a guard with one who shows up with one at the right edge of the screen (pretty sure he always respawns there with a Masterkey). --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:27, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::Naw, that's an XM320, he's one of the pair I've got a shot of in that section. You can hear a "phut" rather than a shotgun blast when he fires. But I know there's people with standalone Masterkeys somewhere, because I remember being puzzled at why on earth you would create such a thing. (edit) Ah, MG Wiki says there's one at the gate of Vista Mansion. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Also, considering all the shit that fits inside Metal Gear Mk. 2 (50 Stingers, 50 Javelins, 50 LAWs, a Barrett, a railgun the size of a pony, etc) why does it never occur to Snake to hide inside it himself? I know they kind of joked about it with Snake being able to pocket a drum can that's bigger than he is, but still. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:36, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

It's called a "Hyperspace Arsenal." I would be all for a realistic mode that forced you to carry guns that are too big right from the beginning of a mission rather than have them delivered by the mini-Metal Gear, or have you collect them after a period of time after "requesting" them at a cache location dropped off by Drebin, or else only be able to transfer/launder/buy ammo just after meeting Drebin in cutscenes. Still, that wouldn't address the other realism issues this game has, such as how the NPCs are indestructible--shouldn't shooting them with .50 BMG weapons or high explosives blow off limbs or reduce them to ludicrous gibs? And what about the octocamo system; wouldn't the human eye only be realistically fooled if Snake was hiding in foliage or else, quite some distance away, lest the enemies spot his outline and start shooting at Snake?

In any case, do you think you could also include tidbits on which guns need to be laundered and which don't need to be? It'd be a nice tidbit, since the entry already includes which guns are available in multiplayer and which aren't. I'm very much looking forward to seeing more great screenshots of this game's guns--do you think it'd be possible for you to equip stealth camo and enter First Person view so we can see NPCs with holding their guns up close?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:06, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm afraid I don't have stealth camo (I can never resist firing LAWs at Strykers :() but I tend to prefer wider shots with things actually going on in them; just focusing right in on the gun makes the page rather dull to look through, IMO (I ''hate'' those CoD page images with everything cropped out but one corner of the screen; just imagine if you took the shot of Dirty Harry holding his revolver in the "do you feel lucky?" scene and cut out everything but the revolver). Also, I'm fairly sure the player and world models for weapons are exactly the same in this game. Still, it's not that hard to get close when you're recording video rather than taking individual screenshots, and it's even easier to get close to the totally broken Raven Sword AI in Act 3. Plus you can get great views of almost all the PMC weapons in cutscenes anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:53, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I didn't mean cropping the images so that only the guns are visible; I was just saying that with Stealth camo you could get within punching (or kissing) distance of the various NPCs in the game so you could get good pics of them holding their weapons without the annoying black-screen parts from scopes or the HUD marks in the centre of the screen if you use Snake's binocular's or the mini-Metal Gear's camera view. Also, could you please please please make a screenshot of the FROG firing her DSR-1 at Big Mama followed by the latter's "I'm fine" despite not wearing any body armour? I find it one of the more unintentionally hilarious parts of the game. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:15, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'll be sure to get that, yes. Though for me the funniest sequence was the part before the "guns of the Patriots" part, where the US Army were pointing guns at Liquid Ocelot's boat and making clicking noises for so long it became ridiculous. Of course the Foxdie scene was funnier, but probably intentional (Snake and Liquid do the "Fox..." "...Die" bit, Liquid Ocelot jumps up and runs away cackling ridiculously and Snake responds by falling over). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Heh heh, it's funny how after the "Guns of the Patriots" scene, Drebin's prices fall flat on their faces with a permanent 50% discount until the end of the game. Of course, that raises the question about why Drebin's prices never go up; wouldn't the complete lock-out of ID-locked firearms mean that the services of gun launderers like Drebin would be more in demand than ever (resulting in a huge price increase), even if just to keep the Rebels who use naked guns from killing all the ID-locked gun users? It's just another entry in the long list of this game's realism problems. And of course, the first FOXDIE scene is another manifestation of how wrong it was to let Kojima direct the game, since he's so firmly stuck in MGS1's shadow the plot of MGS4 is so firmly stuck in the first game's mold. Of course, that's got nothing to do with the weaponry in the game, but I'm still looking forward to this page's completion nonetheless. By the way, have you seen Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN!" ability in Metal Gear Online yet?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:47, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:I must admit I've never played MGO. As for Kojima, I think he was at his best in MGS3 when he was making a tribute to something he loved (the old spy movies that had inspired the series in the first place, with their cool gadgets and ridiculous villians) and he's at his worst when he's trying to force out a game he seems to have regarded as his obligation; I remember that he didn't really want to be involved in 4 and only came back on board after the fans raised a stink about his being absent. He strikes me as a lot like Lucas, who was great when he was making a tribute to the old-fashioned sci-fi he grew up with and hideous when he was left making something he didn't really care for except as a way to make money. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:57, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

Funny that you mentioned George Lucas. I have to wonder whether or not Kojima took some inspiration from Lucas when he decided to make his newest, completely over-referenced MacGuffin: nanomachines that do almost everything, from track biological functions to serve as ID keys, even form the basis for mind control or emotional manipulation. Kind of reminded me of Lucas' "midi-chlorians," since the two of them are both blood-borne squiggly things. Oh well, the fans, like everyone else, don't always know how what they want isn't necessarily what they need. And even the greatest of us can succumb to "Creator's Conceit," whereupon one starts believing in the delusion that "because I made this best-selling piece of media, I can change it however I want, heedless of the needs of believability, plausibility, realism or even my own previous work." Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN" ability in Metal Gear Online can be seen in full force [http://youtu.be/XM7yc5Gf_OU here]. You should give Metal Gear Online a try if you have the money; its training mode is great for taking pictures of the unique characters and their weapons, and it is the only mode where you can use the ballistic shield, or hear the various multiplayer characters do their Rambo impressions while firing an M60E4. Once again, a hearty thank you for your hard work. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:26, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think I'm immune to stupid depictions of nanomachines after playing the two ''Deus Ex'' games, expecially the second one where you apparently have a nanoforge in every weapon that makes the relevant ammo type out of a universal base material ''as you fire''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Also, I'm trying to remember: I know there's no flashback of Vulcan Raven, but wasn't there one of Sniper Wolf that showed her PSG-1 at one point? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:59, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

::The various flashbacks in Act 4 can be found [http://youtu.be/81A3yb_FATg here] and [http://youtu.be/aznWCpBYkKQ here]. You can check those out at your leisure. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:50, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

:::The links you're posting don't work [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

::Pardon me, they're fixed now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:13, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Right, that's me out for today, getting sleepy. Got a lot more caps to get off this Act 1 video, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:13, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think if you see Sniper Wolf's PSG-1 it's part of Crying Wolf's death scene or Naomi's (I seem to recall there's an X button prompt when Otacon is getting upset about that whole thing where everyone he displays the slightest affection for dies instantly), which that doesn't have. Regardless, been a little busy, but should have some new caps up soon. I'm trying to get everything with a Browning M2, so IIRC I still need the Stryker MGS from Act 2, the Humvee in Act 3 and the derelict M1 tank in the hanger in Act 4. I'll finally be able to take that "Incomplete" down once I get a shot of Rex, Ray or one of ''Missouri's'' Phalanxes. Also might see if I can ID those two giant cannons on Liquid's boat, at least in a caption. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:10, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was right, you ''do'' have an X button flashback there. There's also a painting of Big Boss holding his old Mark 22 in Big Mama's church, because it makes sense for one of those to be there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:12, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Having never had a chance to really pay attention to the Vamp / Raiden fight until now, I must admit I laughed my ass off at the part where Raiden has both arms pinned to his back and so blocks Vamp's arm and then throws him using only his teeth. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:36, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Ok, going to be redoing all these caps soon (seen [[Dark Sector]] for why, comparing the new shots with the ones of the Spectre and G36; I've now got an official Sony component cable, so the red after-image from my third-party cable on the [[Bodycount]] page is gone). Going to be kind of "fun" trying to get the same shots all over again, I'll probably be updating all the basic weapon images tomorrow or so and then starting on recording the levels. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:53, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

:The things we do for this wiki . . . well, I'm glad you're willing to get more screenshots over something that isn't very visible on the thumbnails. Are you talking about the red-tinged edges that can be seen on some of your screenshots on the Bodycount page? That's known as chromatic abberration, but I can't see much of it on the MGS4 screenshots myself. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:01, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::Naw, the red was just why I was holding out for the Sony cable, that's why it isn't on the Dark Sector images (I now have it). The reason I'm going to replace these images is they're taken using a much lower-resolution capture device than the one I now have (a Pinnacle Dazzle rather than a Hauppage HD-PVR). You'll see the difference. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:45, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

OK, here's the difference:

[[Image:MGS4-1911Cus.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:MGS4-M1911Cus-HQ.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I'll resize the rest to 1280x720 or so rather than all of them being as big as that one, it's kinda unnecessary when they're only shown on the page at 600px anyway. The weird effect at full resolution is how the pause menu is actually supposed to look, to those not familiar with MGS4. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:50, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:YES. Better resolution is ALWAYS welcome. Looking forward to seeing more MGS "gun porn" in HD, as well as seeing some other issues resolved (such as whether the M10 and M60E4 are closed-bolt firearms in this game or their original open-bolt versions, just how Old Snake holds the M10 in a two-handed fashion with no foregrip, suppressor, or strap to put his offhand on, etc.). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:01, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::If Snake is holding the MAC-10 in a two-handed grip without the aid of an foregrip, suppressor, or strap, he would hold it in a Weaver-stance or a CAR-stance. I saw a screen shot of him using the MAC-10 and he held it in a Weaver-stance like a handgun while utilizing the stock, which makes good practical sense. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:28, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:I see. Regardless, I'm surprised that Kojima didn't slap on a "modernizing conversion" for the MAC-10 in this game, such as made available by [http://www.max-11.com/ Lage Mfg], which in short makes the gun much easier to handle by increasing the length of the barrel and handguard to add space for rails (and their accessories), a foregrip and folding buttstock, along with a mechanism that reduces the rate of fire to 600 RPM from 1100 RPM. This sort of conversion kit would essentially turn the MAC-10 into a close competitor for the HK UMP, except that this "MAX-10" version would be easier to instinctively reload since the magazine goes in the pistol grip. Too bad that the only .45 SMG in this game just isn't that good; whatever else can be said about the MAC-10, ergonomics were clearly not emphasized in its original design. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:45, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

::From what I know, the MAC-10 has inferior reliability compared to the UZI and pretty much any other SMG design. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

Just a couple of new images tonight, going to do the rest of this video tomorrow. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:44, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and here's Otacon explaining why the AK jammed:

[[Image:MGS4-Otaconsez.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Also, there was apparently more than one cartridge in the chamber. That might have been a problem too."]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:48, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:I think that's pretty cool he explains what possibly happened to the weapon, you don't get that in very many games. But it still doesn't explains ''how'' this happened to an AK, I could expect that from an AR, but an AK? Like I said on the page, Snake must have REALLY bad luck. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:25, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::Well, he's not the only one, I noticed at least one of the rebels struggling with the charging handle of his AK during the same sequence. It must just be ''really'' bad ammo. Maybe it's special ''Far Cry 2'' ammo made from blasting caps and dynamite. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:36, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::I think you just solved it mate. ;) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:20, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

Had a few problems with my footage being blurry (not in the shots I actually uploaded, mind) which I think is my old PC. A suitably beefy PC should be winging it's way to me in the next couple of weeks. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:45, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:I've already had my new beefed-up PC a couple of weeks. :D Now I'm counting down the days for BF3. >:B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:09, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

::Then let us do as men have done for centuries and compare the lengths of our, um, computers. Mine's going to be an i7 2600K overclocked to 4.6 GHz, SLI 2 x 1,536 meg GeForce cards, 16 gigs RAM, 120 gig SSD + 3 terabyte data drive. I imagine it'll just be able to scare Crysis into running. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:05, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot requests ==

I know Evil Tim's busy, but this might be a good opportunity to let him know what screenshots might be appropriate to showcase each weapon.
*Five-seveN pistol: Old Snake commits "sexual assault" at gunpoint by holding up a FROG trooper with her own pistol while patting her down for items, along with the "crotch grab" move.
*MAC-10/G18C: Old Snake tries out for a movie of "Bonnie and Clyde" while performing a drive-by shooting from Big Mama's motorcycle.
*M4 Custom: For some reason, Old Snake has taken up the habit of shooting this carbine while holding it sideways.
*Shansi Type 17: Big Mama gets her awesome on by shooting up some Dwarf Gekko drones with her Type 17 pistol.
*MP7A1: Isn't there a PMC in Act 2 carrying this weapon who is distracted by a Playboy Magazine?
Sometimes funny screenshots make entries on this wiki all the more entertaining to read. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

*Might try that
*Almost certainly going to do something like that
*When does he hold it sideways, again?
*Yes
*Yes

Also, totally going to show how you can kill a Gekko with the SVD. Just a note: you don't have to call him Old Snake in every caption. The game only calls him that occasionally and he's "Snake" the rest of the time, and it's not like this is MGS1 and there's two people potentially called "Snake" (even in that case, they always call him Snake and his brother Liquid, so there's only minimal potential for confusion). I could see there being some issues with what to call Big Boss in 3, but this guy is still Snake. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:06, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:I call him "Old Snake" because that's the name above his lifebar, and because that name clearly refers to him in the MGS4 time period. Of course, if you really want to be pedantic, it could be argued that Liquid Snake and Solid Snake should have called each other Liquid and Solid instead of Liquid and Snake (I think the latter combination was chosen because it sounds less silly). If you prefer to just call him Snake in the article, feel free to change that part pack. And Old Snake holds his M4A1 carbine sideways once when engaging the Pieuvre Armement PMCs who are taking Naomi away after headshotting Vamp. Another US Marine aboard the Missouri holds his M4A1 Carbine while trembling with fear as the Dwarf Gekkos execute a boarding action right outside the Missouri's bridge. That's all I can remember right now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:37, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and if you want to show the Vulcan Cannons on the Missouri battleship, shouldn't you include the dramatic close-up shot of its CIWS cannons firing like hell trying to intercept the swarm of anti-ship missiles launched from Outer Haven? The one available now only shows the CIWS cannons in a distant shot. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:58, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:The one you're thinking of is a rather dull closeup of the installation from the ''rear'', I wanted this one because it shows the main guns and looks awesome. The Phalanx shots are exclusively taken to show off ''Missouri'', the installations can piss off. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:15, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Incidentally

[[Image:MGS4-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Ray should not have been allowed to use the hydrocutter as it's opening attack. >:( Also, just noticed that half the "Street Fighter" attacks use the beak to grab Ray, even though it's where Snake is sitting and at least two of them would clearly kill him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Question ==

Do real suppressors degrade like in MGS3 and MGS4? I think not, or at least it's ''very'' exaggerated in these game. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:50, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:old style wipe suppressors do degrade over time. Maxim type supressors and supressors designed after the 1960s don't degrade. You will have to clean them out after combat load but with the lenght of most computer games it should not be an issue as there isn't the time for junk to build up to the point where the supressor will fail. Basically if you take the time to clean you equipment every so often things should't go bad. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:32, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thank you. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:45, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:Yep, suppressors in this game are another problem with its realism. The wipe-style suppressors in MGS3 would indeed degrade, sometimes after as low as 5 to 10 shots. Modern suppressors can last for thousands of rounds of semiautomatic fire, but less if fully-automatic fire is used.
:In reality, detachable suppressors fitted to weapons with supersonic ammunition (Drebin doesn't sell subsonic versions of normally supersonic ammunition, such as 5.56mm NATO, 7.62mm NATO, etc.) would not be as stealthy as depicted, especially at the ranges you fight at in this game. Try dropping a phone book from a height of 5 feet (or 150 cm in metric) onto a hard floor that is not covered by a rug or carpet--that's close to what even the best suppressors can do. At most of the ranges you shoot at in this game, real people would definitely notice (if not necessarily know where you are) and would immediately trigger a caution phase unless your first shot killed someone who was all by his lonesome. Suppressors can't deal with the sonic boom caused by supersonic ammunition, either, which can alert people. This is why the quietest suppressed weapons use subsonic ammunition (such as .45 ACP, or Russian 9x39mm ammo, etc.), or a special integral suppressor (like that on the MP5SD2) that slows supersonic ammunition down to subsonic speeds. Even that doesn't do anything for the clacking noises caused by the cycling of a (semi)automatic weapon's action, which is why the tranquilizer pistols in MGS2, 3, and 4 all use slide locks to eliminate that.
:Another problem is that suppressors, by slowing down the hot gas from fired rounds, cause a gun to overheat faster (because the slowed gas has more time to impart its heat to the weapon). Again, this is generally not a problem unless you forgo all fire discipline and keep firing in full auto; then you might have reason to detach an overheated suppressor and put a new one in place. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:08, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
Last time I helped put rounds through a MP5 with a detachable suppressor it took a bit for the suppressor to cool enough that it could be removed from the barrel. Of course we put 120 rounds through it with mostly magazine dumps as we were just testing the guns function.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:36, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Thanks guys. Well a suppressor is not meant to suppress gun fire so people in the same room can't hear it, it's meant so people in the whole building and in the city outside the building can't hear it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:46, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:Oops, forgot to mention that another way to remove the "clack-clack" sounds of a firearm's action (which can be louder than a suppressed gun's muzzle blast if the suppressor is good enough), aside from slide locks. Any type of round cycling that needs to be manually operated (such as bolt action, pump-action, etc.) will eliminate that sound. Too bad the DSR-1 couldn't be suppressed in this game; combined with its bolt action you'd get a very powerful, quiet, and lethal counterpart to the Mosin Nagant tranq rifle. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:45, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

== Just checking something ==

Of the M4, Drebin says "The barrel's free floating, of course." Now, you can see from the shot of Snake firing that even the ''handguard'' isn't free-floating, but isn't it a contradiction in terms for a direct impingement rifle to have a free-floating barrel since the barrel ''has'' to be touching something other than the receiver, namely the gas tube? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:08, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:I hear of free-floating barrels on AR-15s all the time, I think "free-floating" means nothing but the receiver (and the gas tube) is holding the barrel in place. At least, that's what I know. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:36, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
It could be a bit of "Kojima nonsense" that snuck its way into the script (kind of like how Drebin claims the PMCs love to use the M4A1 Carbine, when in fact none of them do, and the game gives you the impression that Drebin is just foisting off old, obsolete stock onto Old Snake). After all, are we really supposed to believe that Fatman from Metal Gear Solid 2 built his first atomic bomb(!) at age 10? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:56, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
::I guess it could also be a translation error of some kind, since there's a few of those knocking around; I've just got to the first case of them mangling a symmetrical sentence by having Naomi alternate "fate" and "destiny" rather than just saying "it" the second time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Or it could be Kojima's notoriously inconsistent stance on the realism/unrealism scale, especially when it comes to weaponry. First in MGS2 they let us render any enemy limb useless in a single lethal weapon hit (a feature that never returned), but in that same game they let us use the Stinger Missile Launcher indoors (even though that kind of weapon would cause a cave-in or flooding in the Plant chapter). And now they ask us to believe that in some scenes, professional PMC operators can't hit Snake when he's in spitting distance (such as after he shoot Vamp in the head in South America). That scene might have worked if he was hiding some distance away using Octocamo, though. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:07, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and one more thing about the M4A1 in this game; why would you need to have a free-floating barrel on an automatic carbine? Wouldn't it just be simpler to insert a longer barrel, which would increase both accuracy and the bullet's effective range? Or, if you have the resources, you could always use better rounds (like the real life Mk 262) which have both longer effective range and accuracy than the standard 5.56mm NATO rounds in service now. That speech of Drebin's just makes him look like a "used car salesman"--it reeks of hucksterism. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:04, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown pistol ==

Any idea what this is in Johnny Sasaki's leg holster? USP, maybe?

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:26, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, even I'm a bit stumped, it's almost featureless. o_0 - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:12, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was going by the features it doesn't have, more. It's got a horizontal base to the grip while holstered, which rules out any 1911-based pistol, but it doesn't have a beavertail bigger than the one on an actual beaver, so it can't be a Desert Eagle. It's obviously not any pistol that's available in the game unless it's a very small Mark 23, and a very small Mark 23 is called a USP. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:25, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, am I hideously mistaken or is the Mk. 46 Mod 1 actually a Mod 0? The handguard doesn't look right for a Mod 1. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:01, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:Based on what the model looks like it could be a featureless USP or P226 (it's too small for a Mark 23), but without the said "features" it's almost impossible tell what it is. It could also be just a generic "holster stuffer". :P (P.S. what's the deference between the Mk. 46 Mod 1 and the Mod 0, I've only seen the Mod 0?) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:59, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::The forearm of the Mod 1 lacks the rail at the 12 o'clock position (FN Herestal has pictures of the Mod 1 on their website [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF055&gid=FNG008]). There's probably other differences, but either Google is failing me, or there's no info about on the Mod 1 upgrades on the entire internet. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:48, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:::[http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF059&gid=FNG008&mid=FNM0039 FN USA] says "improved receiver pins, a feed tray with retention pawls and a vented handguard with improved heat shield and three MIL-STD 1913 rails." Now, I've checked the reload animation and you can see it's got a 12-o-clock rail on the handguard, so it's a Mod 0. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

::Also, of those two it'd have to be the USP, the SIG would have two screws visible holding the grips on. What I can tell you is the shape is intentional; it's ''not'' the same model used in PMC holsters; the ones I checked have a diagonal base to the grip and therefore are obviously supposed to be a GSR. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:34, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

Just to add these:

[[Image:MGS4-FROG-Holster.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FROG holster weapon, probably Five-seveN]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PMC Holster weapon, clearly GSR.]]
[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another angle on Johnny's weapon, and one where they seem to have forgotten to add that delightful skidmark to his trousers, too.]]

Incidentally, ID'ing this one will take us up to 76 weapons with only one not ID'd (the land mine). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:25, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

But it doesn't have the finger tip-shaped slots at the mag well to be a USP ether... In the last pic of Johnny the pistol now looks like a stubby Desert Eagle because of the way the grip looks. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:53, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Well, there should be some closer shots of it when I finally get off my ass and get around to recording and capping stage 3, there's a lot of closeups of the Rat Patrol members at the end of that one that should settle it if it actually is something. Interestingly, Meryl also has that holster as part of her uniform, but hers is empty (Deagle the first has a horizontal chest holster). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Think this is the best shot you're likely to get. Now, I'm going to bed, I just spent hours recording the entire third Act and at least half of the fourth and it's 3am. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:57, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::In more ways than one. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:33, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:Looks kinda like a Desert Eagle with the beavertail milled down, wow this is hard. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:27, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::Seems it's actually a Mark 23, since Raiden's character weapon (aside from a heap of pointy things) is a Mark 23, and he has the same holster. Holster looks to be very similar to [http://airsoftbb4u.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=402 one of these]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:10, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::You could be right, but still looks off from a Mark 23, I see a metal tang on the grip like the Desert Eagle. Err. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:04, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Might just be a mistake in the model. It's certainly supposed to be a Mark 23 (it's Raiden's only gun in multi), but since they never draw them (unlike FROGs and PMCs, who do draw their sidearms if they're disarmed), there was probably no obligation to actually put a drawable gun in there. I can't remember if Johnny pulls out his sidearm when they're defending the door or not, I'll have to see if they'll actually settle it for us or not. Otherwise we'll just have to say it's an inaccurate Mark 23. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:09, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Johnny does use his sidearm there. He uses a GSR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)

== Note about the M4 and the "big PMCs" ==
They ''did'' use the M4 in early builds of the game [http://ranger.gamebanana.com/img/ss/srends/thm__2863-.jpg] [http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/God-of-Reapers/metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-p-1.jpg], but it was changed to the Mark 17 at some point for some unknown reason. Snake even got ''his'' M4 by taking it from a PMC in an early trailer. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)
:Regarding the Patriot, wouldn't it fall under the same hideously ill-defined "PDW" label as the XM8 Compact? It does rather seem that PDW just stands for whatever your marketing department wants it to: HK definately called the XM8 compact a PDW in sales fluff, and invented the term because they didn't want to call their compact MP5K the MP5 Kurz Kurz as far as I can tell. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:14, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:On the subject of the M4: the article mentions that the handguard isn't free floating like Drebin says. However, I'm pretty sure the rail is carbine length KAC URX which is free floating. Also, the MP5K-PDW isn't a compact MP5K; it's an MP5K with a stock added. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 09:01, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

::Look at the shot of Snake firing the M4 into the camera and you can see there's a circular cap on the front of the rail handguard which contacts the barrel: a KAC URX doesn't have such a cap, which is why it's free-floating while this one isn't. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:42, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

::Also the delta ring between the rail system and the receiver. URX mates with the receiver to form an uninterrupted top rail for optics. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:56, 24 November 2011 (CST)

PDW is indeed something of a term that is a bit too nebulous. I've even heard the term applied to the select-fire variant of the Mauser C96 being described as a PDW since it could mount a shoulder stock and used ammo that was "armour piercing." Still, the question I raised earlier on this page as to the point of mounting a free-floating handguard onto an M4A1 carbine remains--isn't a free-floating barrel mainly for sniper or designated marksmen weapons, not for CQB full-auto weapons? And wouldn't greater long-distance accuracy be achieved more simply by using a longer barrel or enhanced ammunition? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:With regard to free-float rails: there's more to it than just accuracy. Keeping the rails from contacting the barrel means that any accessories mounted on the weapon will be affected less by the vibrations that occur during firing. This helps keep vertical grips and the like from coming loose, and any optics/lasers/IR designators mounted on the forearm will have an easier time retaining their zero. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:12, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

Well, that does make a bit more sense, but it still sounds like the sort of thing a National Army wouldn't issue--though it wouldn't be out of place among civilians or Private Military Contractors. Don't National Armies train for accurate semiautomatic fire whenever possible from anything that isn't an LMG, and if you fire enough fully-automatic rounds to affect the zero of accessories mounted on the handguard, doesn't that mean you're doing something wrong? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== XM8 Compact ==

Why is the XM8 Compact under the SMG/PDW section? PDW or not, 5.56x45mm should go to the Assault rifles. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I was considering moving it to go with the Patriot. I'll do that tomorrow assuming someone doesn't beat me to it, and I'll remove "PDW" from the other heading since it's such a vague, useless class of weapons that seems to include everything gun company marketing departments feel like including from SMGs firing pistol rounds to compact assault rifles. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm not sure about that; I think PDW is still useful to describe select-fire SCHV (small caliber, high velocity) two-handed firearms using proprietary rounds purpose-built for armour-piercing properties, like the 5.7x28mm, the 4.6x30mm, the 6.5x25mm, etc. that aren't (machine) pistols. Having said that, I would agree about how the label can be abused (the MP5K-PDW should have just received an "A" designation such as the MP5KA6 or the like). Still, I have to wonder if Akiba was given the XM8 Compact to show that Meryl "wears the pants" in their relationship--at a 9-inch barrel length, the XM8 (ultra)compact carbine is shorter than Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle, which is 10 inches long.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:08, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:The trouble I have with the PDW label is either (a) it just means SMG so there's no point including it or (b) it includes all the stupid things that are called PDWs but aren't SMGs. Sure, the SCHV rounds aren't all used by pistols so not all PDWs are ''technically'' SMGs, but all PDW rounds are dimensioned like pistol cartridges and most have pistols designed and / or manufactured to shoot them anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing is, if you really want to be pedantic, an SMG is really just a select-fire pistol-caliber carbine. In my view the PDW label is still useful for a narrower class of weapons than most users of the label think, and should only be used if the weapon meets all of the following characteristics.

*Proprietary PDW rounds are designed from the ground up as armour-piercing rounds (piercing Level IIIA ballistic armour or lower), and resemble miniaturized assault rifle ammunition (by virtue of its dimensions and spitzer shape) rather than traditional pistol ammunition. So by this definition the PP-2000 would not be a PDW since it's still using 9x19mm rounds, just in an armour-piercing configuration.
*A stock and foregrip must be present on the weapon for it to be considered a PDW, since both simplify aiming (which is very important in a CQB situation). So a select-fire Five-seveN or C96 are still not PDWs (instead, they are just armour-piercing machine pistols) since it lacks the ability to have both of those features. An MP5K PDW has both a stock and foregrip but doesn't meet the first requirement, and is therefore just a compact SMG with a folding stock and small foregrip.
*A true PDW must have select-fire or fully-automatic fire capability, otherwise it just becomes a fancy carbine like the PS90.

You have to admit that PDW is a more convenient acronym than something like SCHV SMG or the like. We could just go with something like "AP (armour-piercing) SMG" but that would bring stuff like the PP-2000 back into the mix. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:27, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

::Actually, an SMG is a super-light machine gun firing a pistol round: remember the category comes from the first world war before the concept of an intermediate round even existed. And the problem is most users of the label include most companies that say their weapons are PDWs; there's such a huge number of bad examples and so few good ones that it isn't really worth using it, IMO. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

:My google-fu's rather weak right now, but aside from H&K marketing derivatives of the MP5 and XM8 as PDWs I don't know of companies that are marketing SMGs or compact assault rifles with the PDW label, when in fact they don't meet the requirements I outlined earlier. Maybe you could point me in the right direction? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 23:32, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::Wikipedia says the Jatimatic was marketed as a PDW back when HK invented the term, and since the 5.7mm has realised its friends would still like it if it came out as a pistol round anything that fires that is basically a subgun in the normal sense of the term. Magpul's PDR Shirow-gun fires a full-sized 5.56mm, the Chinese QCW-05 fires the 5.8x21mm pistol round, the VBR-Belgium PDW fires the 7.92x24mm pistol round...It's fair to say most things called PDWs don't qualify in the strictest sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:00, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:The "Shirow-gun"? And here I was thinking firearms designed for Ghost in the Shell at least made some sense, even if their service pistol caliber choice was a little iffy on the stopping power side (BTW, the Seburo Firearms page should not have been removed from this wiki). PDW rounds fired out of pistols seem a little iffy to me as well; if HK had to cancel its UCP for "inadequate ballistics in a pistol platform," what makes the Five-seveN/QSZ-92/VBR 7.92 Glock that much better? In any case, the Magpul PDR is just a compact bullpup carbine in 5.56mm NATO, and the 5.8x21mm round (how is this better than the 5.7x28mm round again?) is a miniaturized version of the Chinese 5.8x42mm assault rifle round, which makes it a PDW round. Maybe we could compromise and call them "CQDWs" for "Close Quarters Defensive Weapons" to show how they are meant to be stowed in "Close Quarters" and are most effective in CQB range as well, given their shorter cases compared to full-size assault rifle rounds? Making a poll on the forum asking whether or not the PDW label should be expunged from the site might be useful as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:23, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Again, though, I don't really see the point of using a label that's just going to cause a lot of confusion with not-examples and pseudo-examples. Anything that is categorised as a PDW in the strictest sense is basically an SMG firing AP ammunition. Not using the term rules out all the various pistols and assault rifles that would otherwise sneak into the SMG heading through the vague backdoor marked "PDW." It's sorta like having a category called "Dogs / mammals" next to one saying "cats" and expecting cats to not end up in the dog category. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:I lol'ed at what you said about Akiba and Meryl. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:15, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

Yep, then Akiba tries to "man up" by getting the Barrett M82A2, but then finds he can't "last long." He definitely would have lasted longer if he had gotten something capable of "sustained fire" instead, like the Mk. 46 Mod. 0 coupled with an FN P90 of his own, so either he or Meryl could use the LMG for covering fire while the other goes out to loot P90 magazines from dead FROG troopers and keep wreaking merry hell as long as possible. But no, Kojima had to saddle Akiba with an incredibly impractical Barrett M82A2 (only really useful for killing larger Gekko drones and annoying unmanned Metal Gear RAYs), his old XM8 Compact and a GSR. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:23, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== The MAC-10 in this game ==

Is it an open bolt (the original version) or a closed bolt version? An open bolt version wouldn't need charging after reloading, and wouldn't need to be racked unless the trigger was held down after the last round fired (after which you'd just pull it back to ready the weapon). If the MAC-10 in this game were a closed bolt version, then you would need rack the bolt if you were loading from empty and would indeed eject a round if one were still in the chamber if you racked the bolt. If Old Snake is ejecting a round from the MAC-10 after a mid-magazine reload, then wouldn't it be a closed version? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:27, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'd have to check. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:09, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Another thing you might want to examine is the M60E4; it's still an open bolt weapon last I checked (partly because open bolt weapons run cooler than closed bolt ones, an advantage on an LMG since it means you don't have to change barrels as often). Also, is the M60E4 supposed to be the "very latest model" that the rebel in the Middle Eastern Militia Safe House was boasting about? It would make more sense than an HK21E, since some PMC machine gunners use the M60E4 and it is "the very latest model" of its kind. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:45, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Again, I'll check. In the latter case, I imagine the "very latest model" was probably supposed to be the XM8 LMG: it's the only version missing from the final game. Perhaps they gave the guy the HK21 instead because their playtesters would always kill him to get themselves a free 5.56mm machine gun with a built-in optic. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:30, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Please do. Your considerable efforts on this page are much appreciated. But it wouldn't be the first time a game has used closed bolt versions of weapons that were originally open bolt; Rainbow Six Vegas 2 uses a closed bolt version of the MAC-11 machine pistol, for instance. And the XM8 LMG was always a strange one to me; while the other variants had good advantages for reliability and ease of use for their roles (since their sights didn't need zeroing, had more durable/reliable parts, along with infrared laser pointer/illuminators built into the sight), the XM8 LMG does not have a quick-swap barrel (unlike the M249, for instance) and is a closed bolt weapon which would make its heat buildup more problematic, despite the tougher barrel. In any case, all the game devs had to do to make the XM8 LMG would be to stick a Beta C-mag on the Marksman version of the XM8, since you can't use bipods in this game. The XM8 LMG would have been great in Johnathan's hands, and the standard carbine would then be given to Akiba. Even so, giving that boastful rebel an M60E4 would still require that you spend the money for accessories on a new game, so it wouldn't be as imbalanced as an XM8 LMG.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:34, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== The "PMCs love the (M4)" line ==

In my edit I did NOT specify which voice track language I was referring to (for all I know, that line could also have been in the original JP version). What I was commenting on was how the recording for that scene was probably done before the decision was made to have the PMC guys use the SCAR-H rather than have them actually use the M4-type carbines (as seen in the preview images someone posted earlier). While not wrong to begin with, the fact that they didn't go back to re-do that scene based on the new weapon assignment leave me scratching my head. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 01:26, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, but it's hardly the only strange mistake made in that scene; Drebin also says it has a free-floating barrel even though there's clearly a circular end cap connecting the rail handguard to the barrel, and also that the US Army uses it even though in-game they don't. It's hard to say if it's something that used to be true, a mistake, or just Drebin playing salesman and hoping Snake doesn't notice the more obvious BS in his pitch. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just my personal observation, but I don't think Drebin's 'pretty popular with the big PMCs' line must necessarily mean that the M4 Custom is their standard-issue weapon. Maybe, in-universe, this version of the M4 is perhaps more like a weapon custom-made by the Drebins, and naturally sold exclusively by them. Perhaps he refers to veteran members of the PMCs buying them with their own fundings? Just my theory here, maybe I'm looking too much into it. --[[User:Researcher|Researcher]] 21:01, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:It's also a possibility that ''everyone'' used the M4 Custom in a previous build of the game and the changes were made after the voice overs were recorded. There's really nothing in the game to prove the M4 isn't still the US Army's standard combat weapon. Meryl's "Army/Marines" team is a very, very, very small fraction of the entire US military and them using XM8s means nothing, otherwise HK416 use by Delta Force is proof that that weapon is used by the whole US Army, which we all know isn't true. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:39, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

::The problem is we have no evidence at all of that being the case; the only standard rifle we see any US soldier using during the duration of the game is the XM8, and the only one the PMCs use is the SCAR. Made-up reasoning to fill over a hole in the game world's logic is referred to in some circles as "plot spackle." To go with your example, if the US Army were fictional and we had only ever seen soldiers with HK416s, it would be correct to say we have no evidence the US Army uses anything but the HK416, and if someone said they used the M4, we would point out we've never actually seen them do so and the HK416 appears to be their standard weapon. When interpreting fiction, seeing is believing; characters can lie, exaggerate and be wrong, but a bunch of guys carrying one gun and not the other is a pretty airtight argument as ti which weapon they use. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:39, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just found out something interesting... ==

HD remakes of all the previous games are apparently being released on PSN and possibly Live in November, so I'll hold out for them before screencapping those pages. Apparently they're going to sling in ''Peace Walker'' for PS3, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:15, 9 July 2011 (CDT

:Are they going to retexture MGS2 and MGS3 for this collection? I hope so, because MGS2 is horribly bland with its textures, far more than MGS3 was. I'd do MGS2 myself, I don't have a capture card and the PC version I have is not well programmed for PC graphics cards, so you often end up with a lot of graphical errors. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 11:48, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

::From the sounds of things it's going to be retextured MGS2, retextured MGS3 and probably retextured Twin Snakes running in the MGS4 engine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:02, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

:::That sounds cool. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

Last I heard it was only for the X Box 360. Good news that it's being released on the PS3 as well. Might mean that we're going to see it on the PC (fingers crossed). --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:10, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

== Drebins Camo Trousers ==
hi guys, wondering if anyone can tell me that make/pattern drebins trousers are, i mean obviously they are desert but im not sure what brand.

[http://images.wikia.com/metalgear/images/c/ca/DrebinMGS4.jpg] --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 10:48, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

Pattern would be something like "desert tiger stripe" and there's a similar-looking set of trousers [http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/original_desert_tiger_stripe.htm here]. His look to be bleached a bit lighter or something, but it's the same basic pattern. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:04, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

== A minor controversy over the Operator suicide scene ==

The English voice actor of Old Snake, David Hayter, caused a minor controversy among gaming journalists and the MGS fandom when he said he [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rH-cYUiogI didn't find Old Snake's reluctance to commit suicide to be believable]. Now that the relevant screenshot is in this wiki entry, I thought it deserved some explanation. In David Hayter's words, he says ''". . . Snake would put a bullet in, and put [the gun] in his mouth and just pop himself, like he's killed--he's killed how many countless thousands of people, and he's going to shake because he's going to kill himself? I didn't agree with that at all and begged them to change it . . . ."'' --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:05, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

:Hm, I don't really buy that. He's killed ''other'' people, sure, but confronting the end of your own existence and what might come next isn't going to be easy unless you're incredibly secure in your convictions as to what will happen (and Snake hardly strikes me as devoutly religious) or too stupid to comprehend that's what you're doing. It's not like it's a spur of the moment "I have to do this" thing, after all. Mind you, I really don't think we needed to see him going down on the Operator for quite as long as he did. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:45, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

Even so, I think he's used to fearlessly facing death, even if it's virtually certain (such as when he faced Metal Gear REX before Grey Fox intervened in MGS1, or during his hopeless duel with Fortune in MGS2). And "going down on the Operator"--that's a nice wordplay. Still, I think it's a little disappointing how what comes next is available at any difficulty--it would be more of an incentive to play on harder difficulties if you only got the complete scene after doing something such as completing the Boss Extreme difficulty or getting a Big Boss emblem. Otherwise, you'd only see:

*Old Snake smoking a last cig before fading to black and the last gunshot after finishing Liquid Easy.
*The scene where he sucks his gun off (again fading to black with the last gunshot) after finishing Solid Normal.
*A short cut after the final gunshot showing the gun and its smoking barrel in Old Snake's gnarled hand, fading to black after finishing Big Boss Hard.
*And the complete ending scene after finishing The Boss Extreme.

It would also have been a nice touch if you got to see the ghostly forms of all the people you killed throughout the game or the people Old Snake couldn't save (which means, at a minimum, Liquid Ocelot, Naomi and Big Mama) surrounding Old Snake in the cemetery as he puts the gun in his mouth, as he will join them in death very soon. Such a scene would be a nice reference to the Sorrow's River in MGS3. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:42, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

*I don't know, facing almost certain death is different to facing ''actual'' certain death, especially when it's for something as abstract as the human race rather than something as concrete as someone right in front of you. Also, in both those cases his other option was being killed by the thing he was facing, so he ''didn't'' pick the "certain death" option. Also, given Naomi's record for telling the truth, he's probably worried that shooting himself would just make the bullet ricochet off his superior genes, kill the person who was ''actually'' going to cure the disease and overpenetrate to also kill the world's most adorable kitten which was behind that guy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:18, 31 July 2011 (CDT)

I think the best real world explanation on why Snake's Operator locked back when he had no mag was that he could have possibly pressed the slide release up and hence locking it back by accident. I've seen people accidentally lock the slide back when they accidentally push the slide release up with a loaded mag in. It could have just been the mistake of the animator that they drew a mag follower when there shouldn't have been a mag inside the gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:56, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

A buddy of mine told me that dropping a round into the chamber like what Snake did would really risk accidentally setting the gun off and he seriously tells me to never do that in real life for any gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:26, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::Hideo Kojima thinks so as well. He was forced to add that scene after the credits, I hear. In his mind, Snake did kill himself-protoAuthor 17:31, 24 November 2011 (CST)

:::Actually the original ending would have been Snake and Otacon being hanged for treason (it's not clear who by). Hence "Here's to you" over the credits, which is about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_and_Vanzetti these two]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:57, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

"Also, given Naomi's record for telling the truth..." ...makes me facepalm at how proponents of the suicide ending stick to her claims of Snake becoming a biological weapon as if they're the words of Jesus himself. Seriously, if someone attempted to assassinate ''you'' with a biological weapon and that person later told you that you were in danger of ''becoming'' a biological weapon, would you really actually believe that person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:14, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== Operator ==

I think Snake's main 1911 is closer to a TRP Operator than a standard MC Operator. It has a Target cut rear sight, full length guide rod, extended magazine well and front strap checkering. Standard MEUSOC 1911s like the MC Operator and the Kimber Warrior don't have these features. I know it's not a huge difference but I think it may be worth mentioning.
:I just realized that TRPs are usually bushingless. I think it's more of a frankengun with features from both but I still think it's closer to the TRP so I changed the picture. Hope no one minds.
::I think we'll stick with the MC, it's heavily modified from either regardless of what it originally might have been. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:57, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== screenshots ==

I've taken some screen shots from MGS4 of most of the guns from a side on view I've uploaded a few as an example. The first is snake loading a cartridge into the breech of the thor, the second you can see the compensator working on the G18C, the third is snake screaming Rambo style. [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:THOR_breech_load.jpg]] [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:G18C_working_compensator.jpg]] [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Rambo_Scream.jpg]]
I've got more like them if anyone wants me to upload them just want to see what you think. [[User:Whatmename|Whatmename]]

You couldn't have taken bigger screen shots? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:31, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:<s>Certainly doable, yes. I'm going to be re-doing all the other shots when I have some time off work next month, I'll pick those up at the same time.</s> Edit: oh, wait, that wasn't Excalibur asking me to take bigger ones. Nevermind, I'll take bigger ones of those things, Whatmename, don't worry about uploading yours. Best that every shot comes from the same capture device and method, it makes the page look tidier. Besides, we don't really need side-on shots of most of the weapons since we've already got the inventory images for that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:09, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

I think that screenshot from the G18C shows that the muzzle flash doesn't quite fit where the compensator port is supposed to be. I think the only video games I've seen that correctly emulate the compensated muzzle flash are Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 1 and 2. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:21, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

== M4 Custom RAS ==

Regarding the confusion regarding the RAS on the M4 custom.

The in game RAS resembles two offerings from KAC, the Carbine RAS and the free floating RAS.
[http://www.knightarmco.com/mod_weapons_1.htm Knights ArmCo RAS]

The carbine RAS replaces the standard handguards and is secured with the default delta ring and end-cap.
The free floating RAS replaces the entire handguard, including the delta ring; replacing it with a visually distinctive locking ring. The end-cap in not employed.

The in-game model has the locking ring from the free-floating RAS but the end-cap from the carbine RAS.

IMHO this was done so that the game engine wouldn't have to render the interior surfaces for the RAS and barrel.

:Given we have other errors due to using airsoft guns as models, I think it's more likely that they used an airsoft replica. A cheaply made plastic RAS might have issues with snapping off if it wasn't secured at both ends. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:47, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:Also, I'm going to be replacing almost every picture on this page with HD versions soon, so don't worry too much about new ones, it just gives me more work. Put any suggestions here or on my talk page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:02, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

== Playing this again and disappointed in weapons ==

Decided to pop this back in and am a bit disappointed on how limited the guns are. The M4 is really the only gun you can fully accessorize and even then it was limited to what was available at the time of development. I didn't like the old style Aimpoint sight, no EOtech sight and I couldn't customized other guns like putting a red dot on the MP5. or the FAL. Since I've first played this game, I've learned how to shoot guns and I am a bit put off on how Snake not using the mag release button on rifles and ejecting a live round for only rifles and for some reason, not the handguns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:05, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I'm playing through this one again, too. I think that the gun ''selection'' is good, but I'm with you on the customization. They really could have explored more options as far as accessories go. As for him not using the bolt catch and ejecting live rounds...well, Snake is a professional, and I guess he has his own way of doing things. There's not really anything wrong with either of those (well, ejecting chambered rounds is pretty weird). It's like how some people drop the slide on a pistol with the slide lock, while some rack and release the slide. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 22:43, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

Selection-wise there are a lot of odd guns in my opinion. There's no reason why the Middle Eastern Rebels couldn't have been using AKMs or AK-74s, and Big Mama's resistance members could also be using them as well. The HK21E has absolutely ZERO reason to be in the game (you could have just replaced the Rebel's HK21E with an M60E4 and everything would be hunky-dory rather than with the nonsensical dialogue the Rebel spouts about the HK21E being "the very latest model"). The XM8 should have been the full-length model to give better damage retention at range than the M4A1 (and should have been given a suppressor as well). And no revolvers, despite Ocelot being in the game? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:50, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

Despite how overrated and in many games now, the ACR should be in this game. Because this game takes place in the future, a LOT more new guns have been out since then. The standard XM8 is a carbine. The "full length model" as you call it is just the DMR variant. The XM8 was originally intended to be a replacement carbine for the M4. Technically those aren't "middle eastern rebels" but mercenaries hired, so their gun choices are whatever they want. I wish the SCAR-L was in the game alongside the SCAR-H and I wish they modeled different barrel length instead of just the CQC variant. It's kinda odd none of the more "professional" PMC soldiers had any optics on their guns and shooting their SCARs in full auto. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:59, 24 August 2012 (CDT)
:Those ''were'' Middle Eastern rebels, the only PMCs there were the advisers, the guys who didn't wear anything covering their faces. This is stated so during Codec conversations with Otacon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:47, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

The game is also missing out on using more widely know handguns like SIGs and Glocks. The Glock 18 is just something overused in the media, so it doesn't count. I kinda wish you can "equip" a gun in the game so that in cut scenes, Snake is holding the gun you were holding the moment before the cut scene was triggered or when you walk around, the handgun holster is not automatically the 1911. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:10, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

:I think the main problem I always had with this is there's so many guns you never have any good reason to actually use for anything. The P90 is just plain ''better'' than all the other subguns, most of the vanilla pistols are useless, and so on. It's like they just threw darts at an airsoft catalog, and it results in some pretty dull bosses since none of them are designed with any particular weapon in mind. Plus the mount system doesn't have enough options; it's no good having mount something / mount nothing attachment points, there should be several accessories per location. Even if it's slightly farfetched things like sensor mountings on the side rails, it's better than nothing. Too many weapons with no accessories, too; I'd rather have fewer guns and more stuff to do with them, maybe have a SUIT scope for the FAL and some bracket accessories for the AK like a Kobra sight and so on. Also Snake maintaining light discipline in fully lit rooms is ridiculous.

:In general the design doesn't really work; dividing a warzone into arbitrary rooms shouldn't be necessary, and since they use the same alert system as always you get the weird scene of soldiers being attacked by a BMP-3 going to alert because AN OLD MAN WITH A BAD BACK IS HIDING IN THAT ALLEY. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:31, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:I think the reason why 9mm semiautomatic pistols were not included lies in the damage variables used in the game's engine. If you ever played Metal Gear Online 2, you might have noticed that it took 8 auto-aimed hits from the GSR to down an enemy player at full health. Using auto-aim with a full-auto Glock 18 took around 20 bullets to down someone as well. Imagine taking a Beretta M9 into that mode and consistently finding yourself 5 bullets short if you tried to use your handgun and auto-aim a lot. And yes, the alert system is lifted straight from the earlier games, so the PMCs' highest threat priority is Old Snake at all times. More accessories for more of the ingame-weapons would have been nice, but what do you mean by "sensor mountings"? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:05, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

I kinda wish they brought back some weapons from the previous games like the FAMAS, or the PSG-1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:02, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

:An AKS-74U with Kobra RDS and PBS-1 suppressor options would have been nice, too. I also would have preferred the XM8 be the RIS-equipped Malaysian variant (if not replaced altogether by something more relevant and modern like the ACR), the AK-102 have its tri-rail handguard, optic choices (EOTech!!!!!) and mounts for more guns, an M203 for the M4 (the HK launcher just looked too damn bulky on it) and suppressor options for ''most'' conventional weapons. I was just using the Dragunov last night during Act 2 and wished to high heaven I'd had a suppressor for it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:07, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

I understand why the M203 was not in the game. If you think about it, it's a weapon that's getting old and this game takes place in the future. So a more future Grenade launcher would be better...that said, I wish the SCAR-H in the game was given a EGLM. Seriously, we needed more optics than the Aimpoint and ACOG. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:This game is chock full of vintage weapons, including the Makarov, 1911, Mosin-Nagant, G3, Dragunov, MAC-10, Type 17, FAL, and even a freaking muzzleloading matchlock rifle, all ''older'' than the M203. Same could be said in a round-about way about the Mark 14 (M14), M4 (M16 platform), AK-102 (just an updated AK), and the Remington 870. I don't see how giving the M4 a variation of an accessory it's ''famed'' for would be out of place. It all goes back to us wanting more variety in weapon mods. Besides, there's nothing functionally wrong with the M203 and all the ammo available for the XM320 and MGL were standard 40x46mm that would have worked fine in it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:39, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

When Snake held his M4 tilted, it doesn't make sense in the context of the scene, but if the game was made today, I'd bet you Kojima saw the future when we have recently added red dot attachments at a tilted angle for ARs. I wanted a regular M82A1, not the bullpup variant that no one ever sees anywhere. I really wished Merle didn't have double Desert Eagles. One as a sidearm, sure as a homage because it was her gun in MGS1 but 2? The G36 series of guns would have been nice. I wish the SCAR-Ls were in the hands of the mercs along side the SCAR-H because it's kinda weird that they ALL have SCAR-Hs but weirder is that none of them have optics or other attachments. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

:Out of all the Barrett rifles, the M82A2 actually makes the most sense for how it's used in-game, The M82A2 was designed to immensely increase the ease of use when standing or crouching compared to the conventionally lain-out M82A1, mainly for shooting at helicopters. Which works in the game since you mainly shoot the M82A2 standing or crouched against fast moving robots. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 21:57, 12 August 2016 (EDT)

== Name of the equipment that allows Old Snake to reload one-handed? ==

If you choose to make Old Snake commit a war crime by taking an NPC as a human shield while wielding a handgun, you'll notice that unlike the previous game, Old Snake will actually reload his handgun when you press the reload button, rather than just stand around like an idiot when his gun runs empty (as was the case in MGS3) while holding a human shield. Is there a name for the holster setup he uses ingame that lets him reload one-handed? Would it be possible to get something similar that would allow you to reload a handgun that doesn't use detachable box magazines, like the Thor .45-70 in this game or a revolver? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:19, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

: I don't think he has any special equipment to reload with a human shield. I think he just smacks the gun around on his leg to make it look like he is actually doing something, but his gun is just reloaded by the magic elves in shooters, that also pick up spent shell casings and discarded mags as well as re-plaster walls that were damaged by bullet holes. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:31, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

: Also, it's not a war crime; the fourth Geneva convention only says you can't take civilians or soldiers who are taking no active part in the conflict as hostages. I don't think it applies to threatening one soldier to make others back off. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:19, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

It would be cool to see them do some animation where we see Snake doing one handed reloads while holding a hostage. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:22, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

I would think that directly using one as a human shield would be frowned on by those at the Hague, however. But that's not the worst of it in this game. For one, you can make Old Snake execute soldiers you've made to surrender (i.e., you hold them up, then throw them to the ground and hold them up again to make them put their hands behind their heads). You can also commit sexual assault at gunpoint by holding up a FROG trooper and patting her down, along with the crotch-grab move. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:14, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

:You can think that if you want, but it doesn't make it so. Police pat female suspects down just like they do males. It's not sexual assault. You have a beef against Solid Snake or something? First you try to make him out as a war criminal, next a rapist. Are you going to imply he beats Sunny next? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 12:52, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Mazryonh, you're thinking with a civilian mindset. Depending on situation, military around the world do train their people how to effectively hold someone, either as a "hostage", to suppress nonlethal or to kill silently. It's part of military doctrine. The whole patting down is also part of procedure. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:24, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

:Oh well, police officers at least have a legal right to pat people down, and at a police station a female detainee can usually ask to be patted down by a female officer. I very much doubt that the crotch squeeze (which is intentional genital contact) counts as "standard procedure" either. It was a joke in MGS2 and MGS3; here it's something Old Snake (who to everyone but a few people in MGS' world is an "illegal combatant") intentionally does to incapacitate the enemy or "cop a feel" at gunpoint (the FROG troopers even sometimes quip that "You know what I like!" if you do it to them sometimes, shortly before they try to kick you down). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:29, 14 January 2013 (EST)

Personally I don't see the point of asking to be pat down by a female officer, you're going to be patted down the same way by either gender so it doesn't make much of a difference, if they think you're hiding something up "there" they're still going to pat down that area. And the reason for the crotch squeeze is to 1) Knock the male PMC's out and 2) Make the FROG soldiers kick Snake in the face. [[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 23:08, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

== Most Detailed Weapons in Gaming History? ==

Now I know MGS isn't perfect as far as weapons go (wonky weapon choice, needless cocking), but doesn't it have the most detailed models? I've personally never played a game where so many weapons were portrayed so realistically (visually at least). All guns cycle and eject spent casings. Bolts lock back when they're supposed to (M4 Custom, MK 17 bolt lock's back along with charging handle). And even when snake reloads early (he needlessly cocks the weapon) the weapon does eject the appropriate cartridge, which means they actually modeled a spent casing along with a cartridge. Maybe i'm the only one constantly in awe of this games weapons, but maybe not. Who else agrees. - cheech98

:The devs definitely went (almost) all out. But then again, that's what I'd expect from an MGS game. The only thing that kinda spoils it is the fact that fresh mags aren't modeled with any cartridges in them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:27, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

It's also the first game that I've ever seen where people use a large amount of trigger discipline, some games are starting to implement it but I have never seen it as much as in this [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 20:37, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:It's probably the first ''console'' game to model firearms with this level of detail. But ''PC'' games did this earlier. Just go look at the level of detail present in the PC versions of [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter]] and [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2|its sequel.]] Both of them have the +1 round in the chamber from a tactical reload, there are two reload animations for virtually every firearm, and weapons can be extensively customized (except for the lack of an underslung shotgun). About the only real complaints I have about the guns in those games are an unrealistic damage system and the fact that selector switches don't actually move when you change your firing mode. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:50, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

== Weapons in stock photos used in cutscenes ==
Mostly M16A2s, an M16A2 with an M203, and an M249E1 from the first Gulf War (from the looks of their 90s-vintage gear), and M4s and a not-clearly-shown M240 variant used by troops in Iraq. Should these be included? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:15, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:Yeah, stock footage is still in the game, after all. I'll have to get those when I get around to re-recording all this in HD. Kinda tricky because I'm going to need to make myself a plan of exactly what to do to get the same shots again in gameplay. Be interesting to see what the rumoured upcoming patch is going to do and if it changes anything (it's going to add trophy support, we know that part). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:48, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
::That patch is actually already out, released two or three days ago. Didn't change anything aside from adding trophy support, from what I can see (and I just finished a playthrough about half an hour to an hour ago). All of the above weapons appeared in you-know-who's monologue at the end of the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:50, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:::I assume they haven't put the MGO servers back up? They were turned off earlier this year IIRC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:43, 2 September 2012 (CDT)
::::No. The MGO option in MGS4's main menu has been replaced with an option to install all five acts of the game to the HDD at the same time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:28, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

== Hey... ==

If Johnny doesn't have nanomachines, wouldn't that mean he didn't have a system ID, meaning he'd have never been able to fire his issue weapon? Wouldn't someone have, you know, ''noticed'' that? For that matter, how come Snake thought threatening him with his issue weapon was a good idea when as far as he knew he'd never have been able to fire it without taking it to Drebin? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 00:06, 14 January 2013 (EST)

:I talked about this in an earlier revision of the XM8 section of this entry. But apparently I was wrong, and that was before I got the game for myself anyway. In any case, it's not too far of a stretch to posit that he's been paying Drebin some visits. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:22, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::Well yeah, but it's his issue weapon. Wouldn't the instructors have noticed he was the only one on the firing range physically incapable of firing his weapon at a target and, you know, done something about it? And you get in trouble if he has a non-ID weapon too since he should have used it at the end of Act 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:17, 14 January 2013 (EST)

:::He couldn't have used it if he wanted to in Act 3 cause he was puking his guts out on that boat. Of course now that you mention it, I do wonder how neither Merle or anyone on her team notices how they cannot link with Johnny at all [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 08:25, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::::Meryl oft mentions how johnny can be so out of synch with the rest of the team, most notably in the first few scenes where they are introduced IIRC. Also, from what I recall from the MGS database, all his gear is customized with tech from Japan to bypass the ID coding, minus the stuff from Drebin. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 15:06, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::::But there was no way Snake could have known Johnny's XM8 is potentially an Non ID gun because his lack of nanomachines, yet he disarmed him and was ready to use it despite being informed previous that all guns are ID locked and he can't possibly used them without Drebin unlocking them for him to use. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:42, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

This game, while moderately fun (MGS3 is easily 10X more fun than MGS4 is, but that's just my personal opinion), has so many glaring issues that I'm so tempted to say, "Just throw it into the big bag labeled 'Plot Holes' and move on." LOL. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:32, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

:MGS3 was a game based around its gimmicks in my experiences--the guards are much easier to fool than in MGS4 and you have Naked Snake's omnipresent hunger to deal with (but we should save this for the actual MGS3 page). Still, Kojima could have prevented this problem if Old Snake, after slamming Johnny with CQC, unloaded his weapon, pocketed the magazine, threw it away (since I doubt Old Snake knew how to field strip, Boss-style, an unfamiliar weapon like the XM8 on very short notice), then drew his own looted AK-102 (which you MUST take) to point at the Rat Patrol. As for Johnny's part, he could just have visited a gun launderer early on in his training (though it still doesn't take care of the question of why Old Snake commandeered his XM8 since for all Old Snake knew the ID lock would have rendered it nonfunctional).--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:49, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

:::The soldiers in MGS3 are easier to handle because they aren't interconnected to each other via SOP like the mercs in MGS4 are and, barring the Ocelot unit and other Spetsnaz, were likely far less extensively trained since the Soviet war machine of the time was based primarily on overwhelming an enemy with sheer numbers. Even then, Big Boss is (at least from my POV) shown to be the obviously better soldier when compared to Snake. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:53, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

::How could he visit a gun launderer before taking his issue weapon out on a firing range, though? They don't tend to let you take your rifle home and screw around with it in the military, last I checked. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:48, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

:Easy, he could have noticed that "Oh, crap, I'll be using an XM8 as part of the Rat Patrol and don't have any nanos; I need to get a counterfeit chip/firing mechanism blocker/whatever ASAP" and then visited a gun launderer to ask for that specific component ("Sure, you can have one for an XM8, so as long as you bring me the original by tomorrow" or the like). All Johnny has to do then is to substitute the counterfeit component (most plausibly something that locks the safety switch in its "on" position without the appropriate radio signal from a user's nanomachines, and has its own microchip component that can receive an overriding signal from the Patriots) for the original via field-stripping his weapon before his first firing trip range--they have field stripping practice sessions in the military, don't they?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 20:35, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

::If it were that easy, I doubt the Drebins would have made a business out of it. Every soldier in the field and mom & pop gun shop would be able to easily circumvent SOP, thereby making the whole thing--and the entire premise of the game--a proverbial fifth wheel. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:53, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

:No, according to Drebin 893's explanation at the end of the game, the gun launderers are '''(SPOILERS)''' Patriot-sponsored workarounds to the system, so it's most likely that only they can create chips (or whatever the component is actually called) that countermand/counterfeit the Patriot's System ID locks. Besides, the Rat Patrol's true purpose is in fact supporting Patriot operations, so I'm sure they would have given Johnny what he needed when he was assigned to the team, one way or another.'''(END SPOILERS)'''--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 00:53, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

::Yeah, but like I noted on the page, all of these weapons are designed to work without the System, so the worst you'd have to do is replace a component and maybe mill some metal out of the receiver so it fits. A lockout might work with something like the Javelin if the software is cloud-based and the missile programmed by the System since you'd have to write new software from scratch to use it, but a lockout on a gun is like a safe. It's there to stop you immediately accessing the contents, but if you can take it away and do whatever you like to it, it's not going to last for very long. So the Drebins would have been undercut by black-market gunsmiths who were just removing the ID locks or manufacturing weapons that never had them installed in the first place.

::That's not even getting into how daft it is having an army that requires the equivalent of an always-on internet connection to stop their soldiers turning into gibbering wrecks, their guns locking up and all their vehicles shutting down (helicopters doing so in mid-air, even). What do you do in an area with bad communications or jamming? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:45, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

:I was just arguing within the constraints of the story; if Kojima had thought things over he might have chosen other methods (such as surgical implants) to better control and monitor soldiers. And it doesn't have to be an "always-on connection"--perhaps the overriding orders only need to be issued once via a frequency no one else is allowed to transmit on.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 16:34, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

::Naw, it's very much implied that a local shutdown of the system immediately disables all devices linked to it, there isn't even a crash mode so that you can, say, land a helicopter. That really long description of the System that Drebin gives also shows it's an active monitoring system, hence it doing things like regulating emotions and linking squadmates together; it's all centralised with the Patriot AIs acting as the hub. SOP is the networked battlefield taken to a more or less impossible extreme. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:44, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

== Random question regarding the SCAR-H description ==
Why are the XM320 and Masterkey referred to as "NATO underbarrel accessory weapons"? Neither weapon adheres to any NATO standard AFAIK, but the wording makes it sound as if both are some kind of standardized weapon systems used by all member states when no such standardization has ever existed. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:26, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

:My take is that they were designed for use by NATO-standard nations, just like the GP-25 is a Warsaw pact underbarrel weapon.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:51, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

::Are there even any NATO standards for shotgun and low-velocity grenade munitions? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:55, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

:::Standard-measurement (2 3/4 in, 3 in, etc.) 12 Gauge shells for shotguns (I know, it seems obvious, but that's what it is) and 40x46mm for grenade launchers. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:06, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

:::What I mean is they go on NATO-ammunition-using weapons. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:39, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

:NATO most definitely doesn't use the VOG-25 caseless grenades fired by the GP series grenade launchers (and they were purposely designed to be non-interchangeable with NATO weaponry, like the 9x18mm Makarov round). 12-gauge shotgun rounds have been around for so long they're used on both sides of the old Cold War factions (look at the Saiga-12 and the Benelli M4, for instance). The Russians currently still haven't designed and deployed an underslung shotgun for their assault rifles, but that's clearly not due to technological constraints.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 16:38, 17 March 2013 (EDT)
::The question is why would you need an underslung shotgun for an assault rifle. Those things were never standard equipment for even the US army let alone any army. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:30, 12 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Yeah, but the point is they're the accessories that go on rifles that use NATO rounds, rather than on the Soviet rifles which get the GP25. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:11, 13 June 2013 (EDT)
::The [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System]] has had success in the field because:
:::'''1)''' It allows M4 Carbine users to have a door-breaching method without carrying a separate weapon (the MASS was designed to have its muzzle be at the same position as an M4 Carbine's when mounted to one--the MASS could conceivably be mounted on full-size M16s, but with the main weapon's barrel protruding past the MASS', it would be rather awkward to get the unmodified MASS' barrel into the right position for door breaching, and shorter-barrelled military AR-15 variants might not have the barrel length to safely mount the MASS).
:::'''2)''' It allows users another close-range weapon to use if they are attacked when they are out of ammo for the primary weapon, assuming the MASS isn't also empty.
:::'''3)''' Due to the various alternative 12-Gauge shotgun loads, it allows the user more versatility without carrying another separate weapon system (such as buckshot for room-clearing, flare/smoke rounds for signalling, beanbag/stinger round for less-lethal takedowns, etc.). As FRAG-12 shotgun rounds proliferate, I would imagine that the M26 MASS may replace underslung 40mm grenade launchers for short-range work, as having a 3-5 shot grenade launcher right on your weapon would be a positive asset so as long as you can handle the extra weight. Alternative 40mm rounds such as less-lethal or buckshot-carrying versions exist, but so far the vast majority of underslung grenade launchers remain single shot, unlike the MASS. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 23:33, 13 June 2013 (EDT)
:The only downside to the MASS is its bulky size, IMO. I'd personally pick a Masterkey over it in the same way I prefer the M203 for its compactness over the bulky M320. At any rate, though, I just think referring to the XM320 and Masterkey as "NATO underbarrel accessory weapons" implies the weapons themselves are standardized by NATO and used by the militaries of all the organization's member states when they aren't. Many armies use AG36-based grenade launchers, yes, but not all these launchers are the necessarily the XM320/M320 variant in particular, and I don't think the Masterkey was ever widely used by ''anyone'' other than Delta. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:22, 8 December 2014 (EST)

== Uzi ==

Sat around at the menu to watch Snake's antics from the different angle than in the ending, and then it ended up playing one of the commercials for the PMCs from the start that I never saw before. Apparently nobody else around here did, either, because it turns out there's a gun present in the commercial for Praying Mantis that isn't mentioned on our page for the game. Alas, I've currently got no way to get direct screencaps of the game - the best I can do is screenshots of a video of the game, so I wanted to point it out here before I did anything to the regular page.

[[Image:MGS4-Uzi1.jpg|400px|thumb|none|IMI Uzi in the Praying Mantis commercial.]]
[[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 02:04, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
:There's also the stock footage weapons--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 06:19, 4 July 2016 (EDT)

:Actually I think that's a [[Minebea M-9]] of some kind, you see later it has a foregrip.
:[[File:Minebea M-9 submachine gun (New).jpg|thumb|400px|none|Minebea M-9 (Current Model) - 9x19mm]]
:[[Image:MGS4-M9-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:46, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
::I'm not sure it's an M-9 there (the shape of the sight wings and the charging handle are pretty indicative of an Uzi), but it does do some shape-changing between shots. That one in particular, it seems to have grown a vertical foregrip, and had the Uzi's folding stock give way for one from a Mini-Uzi. The last shot it shows up in it's certainly a regular Uzi again, but it's still missing the stock for some reason. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 19:39, 4 July 2016 (EDT)

== Operator or TRP Operator? ==

Just looking at the image from the game, I notice the sights and the magwell, and looking at photos of the TRP Operator it has the same sights and magwell. Could it just be chalked up to modifications made before Snake got it, or is it actually the TRP Operator? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 23:49, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I checked and the in-game gun sure is very similar to the TRP. Only difference being the threaded barrel, different grips and the slide release.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 07:23, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::Since it bares more of a resemblance to the TRP Operator, I'll change it to such. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 21:25, 25 August 2016 (EDT)

Talk:Takers

2016-08-26T01:25:04Z

Bristow8411: /* Another 1911 topic */ new section

Is it just me or does this look like ''Heat'', only with mostly black guys? Here's Wikipedia's take, for what its worth: ''A group of professional bank robbers, who specialize in spectacular robberies, are pulled into one last job by a recently paroled cohort only to be pitted against a hard-boiled detective who interrupts their heist.'' If that's not ''Heat'', then i don't know what is.

For a minute, I was looking for the scene in [[The Losers]] where the team walks away as a helicopter explodes, but then I realized that [[Idris Elba]] is in both movies and that scene is from this film. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 21:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Who called this the new Heat? ==

Seriously, someone told me that articles are writing this as the Heat of this generation and that just made me cringe. The cast just didn't have the legendary status that De Niro and Al Picino had back then and they had too many named cast members unlike Heat. And really, the Heat of the recent generation would be Public Enemies which was directed by Micheal Mann.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:04, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

But come on on! Walker is almost like a de niro (note sarcasm)...Heat is in its own right and really i would like to believe only a independent movie could reach that magnatude. But Public Enemies?...i guess if you could stay awake long enough it could maybe be a little like heat...kinda. If anything can be compared to heat right now i think it would be The Town with jermy remmer--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Some of the shootouts in [[Mesrine: Killer Instinct]] are on the epic scale similar to Heat; it certainly has a very prolonged shootout involving a variety of different weapons. This is the true story of a famous French bank robber, and his exploits in France and later in Canada. The final shootout of the 1st film is quite spectacular, and is surely the only time in history where an escaped prisoner comes back to rescue his fellow inmates, M16 in hand (remember this is a true story!). Worth checking out this not too famous film...

:If epic scale shootouts are the criteria for determining the next ''[[Heat]]'' I would cast my vote for the Korean film ''[[Shiri]]''. That film has better gunfights in both quality and quantity than most recent American films. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Thanks for the info...I love to hear about awesome foreign flics...I'm almost out of Cantonese and korean movies to watch, or atleast the good ones.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:22, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I've seen Takers and I've got to say, it's no Heat. That's because there will never be another heist movie like Heat.

Unless they remake it. Which seems like the trend nowadays in film. To remake better films. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

In 3D [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

No one could remake Heat besides Michael Mann.
:And he already did. Heat is a remake of LA Takedown. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

::Can anyone please point me to a reviewer who says this movie is the "new ''[[Heat]]''"? I've seen plenty of comparisons to ''[[Heat]]'' in the reviews I've read from MetaCritic, but they were all made in a pejorative way - certainly not positive. Most reviewers I've seen called it a ''[[Heat]]'' "wannabe". -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:49, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm just wondering if Chris Brown will put his woman-beating skills to work in this move.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 18:33, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:I haven't seen it yet, but according to [http://www.shadowandact.com/?p=30363 this review], it would appear that in fact he does get to slap women around in the movie! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:03, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
::I don't listen to contemporary music, so unfortunately, his domestic abuse is the only reason why I know who the heck he is. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:12, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Uhh... why is everybody getting so upset? You realize that all the reviews in the commercials were excerpts, right? They were just spun so that it looked like the movie was getting good press. One reviewer could have said: "The director and cast try and fail to pass this movie off as 'Heat' for a new generation," but the people who do the commercials only took those last four words! They're just paraphrasing the reviewer, in a way. In the text that praises the movie, the ellipses (...) is where the negative part of the review ended.

:Just saw this movie not too long ago (and I added a few more screencaps that I thought were worth including). It was decent, good production values and cinematography, but definitely not one of the best cops-and-robbers flicks ever made (or even from the last 10 years). Definitely not ''[[Heat]]'' (goes without saying), because the characters aren't the least bit interesting in the way that Vincent Hanna and Neil McCauley were. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:28, 13 March 2011 (MSK)

== 1911 ==

I think its possible the first .45 used by John could possibly be a Kimber Pro Carry II or maybe a Nighthawk T3. those would be my guesses but im not sure. i also when watching the movie thought he might have switched because in some parts the 1911 seemed more compact. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:20, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

At the very end of the movie it looks like Paul Walker uses a full size 1911 to kill T.I...i hate to say this but it did look like a Kimber TLE Custom but not sure.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:57, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

At the end, the 1911 didn't look full sized, so I doubt its a Kimber TLE, but would believe that it was a Pro Carry. --[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 06:21, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

== Two Glocks==

If you look at the end, when Jake and Jessie prepared for their final stand, it looks as if Jessie chambers more than one two tone glock. And the silde looks more like a G19, I'll add a screencap when I get the chance.--[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 06:25, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:It's the same Glock (a G17), they just showed him loading it twice for some reason. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:52, 9 March 2011 (MSK)

== where the heck is this from? ==

Removed from main page:
[[Image:TakersGlock17.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ary Katz with a 2nd generation Two Toned Glock 17 in a Publicity Photo]]
I don't think he's in the film... even though some sources say that he is, what's up with that?... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 22:47, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

== Walker's 1911 ==

Damn, what the heck is John Rahway ([[Paul Walker]]) using in the film? I credited it as a Colt Commander, but it's true identity is a mystery to me. It looks like a compact version of a [[Wilson Combat "Protector"]], but I don't know... it could on the other hand be a M1991A1 Commander... I'll dig into it, but I'm open to suggestions... (If you know the exact make and model, please let us know, and edit the page accordingly...) --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 14:27, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think it's a Commander, looks to me like the 1" shorter Officer size. It reminds me of the Kimber CDP, but the two-tone is the opposite config. It could be a factory custom, or base model that's been customized.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:20, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
[[Image:Takers1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The gun in the film]]
[[Image:WilsonProtector.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Wilson Combat Protector]]

==Jake's SIG==

The SIG used by Jake Attica appears to be a two-tone P228, not a P226. The barrel looks too short, and if you look closely, the trigger guard is rounded, not squared (the biggest visual difference between the 228 and 226). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:56, 9 March 2011 (MSK)

== LOL ==

Whoever wrote this deserves a medallion:
[[Image:TakersM4A1_5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A.J. fires his M4A1. Note the flames on the background.]]
roflcopter [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:17, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

== Another 1911 topic ==

Are we sure it's the Kimber Pro Carry Crimson? I ask because in this image, it looks like his 1911 has an extended magwell and as far as I'm aware, that doesn't come with the Pro Carry[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 21:25, 25 August 2016 (EDT)

[[File:Takers1911-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note the extended magwell]]

Talk:Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

2016-08-15T03:49:13Z

Bristow8411: /* Operator or TRP Operator? */ new section

Talk:Assault on Precinct 13 (2005)

2016-07-02T02:54:24Z

Bristow8411: /* Ethan Hawke's Para-Ordnance */

I was going to upload [[The Quick and the Dead]] but I'll wait till tommorow so I don't steal your thunder. Good work so far. -GM

Finished, how does it look now?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 05:16, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

:Excellent work, I love the armorer specials. I find it kind of cool how Al gets to have these little cameos in movies. I'll have TQATD done tommorow. I just finished watching [[Hotel Rwanda]], damn that movie is depressing. I'll have that screencapped too soon. -GM

Thanks, and I can't wait to see your newest articles. Yea, I heard that's one thing Hotel Rawanda is infamous for, and want to know something else. A teacher in my school had her class watch that movie just before Christmas break, Wierd.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 06:02, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Sig Sauer P226 ==

Hmmm, this makes me wish I hadn't deleted the old picture of the two-tone P226. The one in the movie is a newer production P226 with a milled slide, whereas the one we have now is the older production model with the stamped slide.

I see what you mean, oh well. It shouldn't make too much of a difference, it's still the same gun overall.

:Yeah, I guess. Also, it's pretty rare to see the milled ones in movies. Even though the stamped-slide P226s have not been produced for over 10 years, most of the movies being made even today still use them, just because armorers don't rush out to replace something they already have in inventory when the difference between old and new versions amounts to minor design changes. That's also why you see older-model Taurus PT92s, Gen 2 Glocks, etc. in many movies.

:Also, seems like he filed down the top of the barrel a bit too much; it looks almost like it was ground straight into the chamber.

I see, that makes sense, and there's nothing like the classic versions. That's how they modify guns to fire Blanks? I'll have to look for that in other movies, and yea it looks like he did overdo the filing, it looks like a good amount of the top of the chamber is gone.

:Yeah, some pistols need to have the top of the barrel filed down in order to function reliably with blanks. Most of the P220 series do, and so do H&K USPs, I believe.

== M4A1 ==

''That's not an M4, its a Colt Commando of some type, look at the permanent carryhandle. [[User:AdAstra2009]]''

The M4 Carbine had an integral carrying handle, the M4A1 has a removable carrying handle.

:I dont know who wrote that, but you're way wrong. The ENTIRE M4 generation has removable hand rails[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

::You'r both wrong. M4s made in 1994 and 1995 were fitted with non-removable carry handles. After 1995, the Department of Defense asked Colt[[trademark symbol|<nowiki>™</nowiki>]] to outfit both the M4s AND the M4A1s with Picatinny rails. Today(As in, 2009) all M4s and M4A1s that are being issued to US Military and US Police have Removeble Carry Handles. I not sure about the AR-15s that are being sold at gun stores. I think we will need MPM on this one.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

:::My understanding (after doing some reading) is this: The original M4 that was purchased by the military was called the Model 777 in Colt's AR-15 catalog. It had an M16A2-style receiver (meaning, NO detachable carry handle) and it fired semi or burst, like the M16A2. The full-auto version of the Model 777 was the earlier Model 727, which was originally designed for the armed forces of the U.A.E. This is the gun that the DoD originally designated as simply "the M4 Carbine". However, around the time that the original M4 (the Model 777) was coming into service, Colt introduced the flat-top receivers with detachable carry handles. The DoD quickly decided that this feature was desirable and stopped buying the Model 777; they switched instead to buying the Model 920 (semi or burst) and the Model 921 (semi or auto), which are the guns that are known today as the "M4" and the "M4A1", respectively. But the Model 920 was still called "the M4" even though it had a different receiver style than the Model 777. So, basically, the military bought two different guns that were both given the designation "M4", even though they were different models with different receivers.

:::Also, I should point out that the USAF, who are extremely stingy when it comes to buying new small arms (any time we attempt to upgrade or standardize a new platform, they're the branch who bitch the loudest about the cost), initially didn't buy very many M4s or M4A1s at all. Instead, they simply upgraded some of their existing M16 carbines - including their XM177s (which they called GAU-5s), Model 653s, etc. by replacing the barrels with the M4-style stepped barrel. So, until about the early-2000s, it was possible to see carbines which had M4 barrels, but A2, A1, or even SP1-style receivers. Franken-carbines, in other words. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
:The USAF does bitch about everything. Why do they bitch about Small Arms anyway? I know they don't really need Small Arms but why bitch?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

::Because they'd rather spend the money on something else, like more B-2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

:Um, should we really be calling it an M4 because M4s today have removable carrying handles. It looks like the M727 or one of the other shorty M16 variants. Looking at the M727s in Black Hawk Down, they look exactly the same as this "M4", so I don't think it should be called an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:36, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

::Yeah, I guess we should change it, since we called all of the other ones "Model 727s". -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:44, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

==I still prefer the 1976 version==

I know what the hell does that have to do with firearms. This remake had a great arsenal but I like the original version. Showing my age. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

No I agree and I'm only 23. The original is a marvel of what you can do with very little money. It has a great atmosphere and Napoleon Wilson is so much better than Lawrence Fishburne's character. John Carpenter did some really cracking films back in the day. They Live was his last great film. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:28, 9 March 2011 (MSK)

== Girl knows how to handle a Tommy-Gun? ==
There are many films, in which an absolute beginner suddenly knows how to handle a gun.
That might be ok for DA-revolvers, but it gets dubious when it comes to pistols (especially SA-pistols) or even more complicated guns like machine-guns of all kind.
Here the little lady knows how to handle a Tommy-Gun instantly.

I never fired one myself, but I got my hands on a PPSch-41 a few years ago. That was somewhat different from other guns. First of, you've got to wind up these drum-magazines before loading the gun with them. Do we have to believe, the Tommy-Gun has been stored cocked and loaded for years in the evidence room?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the kind of guy, who always has to yell "unrealistic". That way, I could never ever enjoy movies like this one. And I really enjoyed tis one. And I know, the girl with the Tommy-Gun was meant as "comic relief". But I thing it was uncalled for and highly ridiculous.
What do you guys think?
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 09:57, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

- If I recall correctly, the woman in question, though self-proclaimed as someone who 'never did anything wrong in her life' was obviously filling a 'gangsta' stereotype. As such, she might have had some general knowledge or familiarity with weapons, including automatic machine guns.

That's oversimplifying by a fair extent, but that's what I got and it is plausible enough. That said I think saying 'uncalled for' may be a bit much, but I agree it is a bit ridiculous. Then again almost all fictional action movies are in some way or other.

I myself still thought it was neat to see a Tommy Gun used outside of a WWII or Roarin' Twenties/Gangster-Era representative film. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:13, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

== Shortcomings in logic ==

While I greatly enjoy this movie there were two points that always left me scratching my head.

First is the issue of the Thompson SMG. Is it standard police procedure to leave confiscated weapons in loaded condition when stored in evidence lockup?

Secondly we know that the guards on the prison transport bus were armed with shotguns, those shotguns were brought inside the precinct building when the guards came in, but after a certain point we never see them again. Even when the building comes under attack we never see the crew inside break them out to return fire. It's as if they suddenly just disappear from existence. Why is that?

== Ethan Hawke's Para-Ordnance ==

Is it noteworthy that, during the scene pictured in this article, that the slide doesn't move an inch while he's firing?
:: When you screencap a muzzle flash, the slide does NOT move. The slide always moves the frame AFTER the flash due to the split second delay in the action from firing to reloading. If the slide didn't lockup when the round fired, the extractor would rip the rim off the rounds and cause immediate casing separation. :)~~
::: If you notice as well, the hammer does move, and I don't believe that happens on flashpaper replicas. The previous poster is correct, the slide moves after the flash. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 22:54, 1 July 2016 (EDT)

==Additional==

[[Image:AOP13flash.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Note the muzzle flash when a killer falls.]]

Talk:Sniper: Special Ops

2016-05-22T22:47:30Z

Bristow8411: /* Please help ID */

== Please help ID ==

Please help ID this rifle. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 03:56, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
[[File:SSO 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:SSO 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Looks like a Blaser R93 Tactical, just by the general shape of the body. But, just looking at the different models online, the rifle should have a fluted barrel, whereas this one does not, whereas all the airsoft models I've seen pop up has the barrel as seen in the screen cap.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 17:46, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
*Looks more like a [[Steyr SSG 08]]. --[[User:Clonehunter|Clonehunter]] ([[User talk:Clonehunter|talk]]) 18:28, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
** I do believe you are right, I really need to work on my rifle knowledge [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 18:47, 22 May 2016 (EDT)

Talk:Sniper: Special Ops

2016-05-22T21:46:30Z

Bristow8411: /* Please help ID */

Talk:Deadpool (2016)

2016-05-11T19:27:48Z

Bristow8411: /* Wade's 1911 */ new section

==First images from set==
While not good enough to start the page properly, a few photos from set have been leaked, showing Deadpool dual wielding Desert Eagles, [http://i.imgur.com/0AdhFIT.jpg| this] is probably the best one.
--[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 21:58, 06 April 2015 (GMT)
:What's the source of this image? Is it legit? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 17:50, 6 April 2015 (EDT)
::I don't think so, a lot of the other images look like they where taken by onlookers, this is the closest to 'official' looking of the bunch, got a few other I can post if you're interested, but they are all kinda similar. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 23:04, 06 April 2015 (GMT)
:::Can't have those here, sorry. Only authorized BTS images are allowed. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 18:12, 6 April 2015 (EDT)
::::My bad, thought that only went for the main pages not the talk page, changed it so it links to an outside source. Uploaded the others as well [http://i.imgur.com/kCOaPhs.jpg| here] and [http://i.imgur.com/aTFFovP.jpg| here] --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 23:30, 06 April 2015 (GMT)
:::::If Deadpool never takes off his mask (and I'm not sure he ever does), then wouldn't this basically just be a voice acting gig for Ryan Reynolds? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 18:44, 6 April 2015 (EDT)
::::::Deadpool does take off his mask in the comics quite frequently, but his face is horribly disfigured. I would imagine they're going to do a lot of make-up work so he can remove the mask at some point. Who knows if it will even be Ryan Reynolds in the makeup if they do that. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 23:13, 6 April 2015 (EDT)
:::::::He will be removing his mask in the movie, just like in the comic, and it will be Ryan Reynolds, both in the costume (except for stunt work), and out as you can see [http://i.imgur.com/zQylISk.jpg| here] looks like they're not gonna make him quite as disfigured as he is in the comics, although they could always add more via CGI or it might just be that this photo was taken from real far away. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 12:30, 07 April 2015 (GMT)

[[Image:Deadpool-DesertEagle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Deadpool admires his destruction with his Desert Eagles.]]

==Just seen the movie==
Just got back from watching the movie and the weapons I noticed that aren't listed on the page are;
A 1911 (looked similar to a Para-Ordnance LDA) 
Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket Nickel with pearl grips 
What looks like a M249 SAW Paratrooper 
UTAS UTS-15 
A Glock (I think 19) 
An M72 LAW 
There was a scene with Wade loading up a bag where you see a whole bunch of weapons, but all are only for a second and where hard to catch. Same with a scene where a bunch of people draw weapons in a bar. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 00:03, 14 February 2016 (GMT)
:I caught what looked like a AUG in the bag. --[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 00:07, 14 February 2016 (EST)

== Unspecified AK ==
[[File:Deadpool 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
Even if anyone sees this is AK, it is clear. However, is there the person who can identify a detailed type ? I think the 5.56 or 5.45mm AK rifle with East-German type folding stock. Does this AK wonder Made Romania ? --[[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] ([[User talk:KINKI'boy|talk]]) 15:16, 11 May 2016 (JST)
:From the film, it looked like a Galil when it was posted on a wall. [[User:Inceptor57|Inceptor57]] ([[User talk:Inceptor57|talk]]) 02:18, 11 May 2016 (EDT)
::From what I can see it's a Norinco Type 84S fitted with an AKS-74 folding stock and modern polymer black furniture. Worryingly, it seems its barrel is cut down (along with the front sight) and the whole front of the gas system is gone! [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 03:01, 11 May 2016 (EDT)

== Wade's 1911 ==

I'm 99% certain that his 1911 has a double stack magazine, which makes me think it's a Para. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 15:27, 11 May 2016 (EDT)

[[File:Deadpool_28.jpg|600px]]

Talk:Daredevil (2015) - Season 2

2016-04-26T02:51:04Z

Bristow8411: /* Frank's 1911 */ new section

As soon as a non watermarked image is available I will replace the current one. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 16:09, 29 December 2015 (GMT)

Hi guys, time for my yearly visit to this site, here's a couple screenshots I've taken from episode 2x12 when Frank Castle finds a stash of toys, I'd add them on the main page myself with the list since they're all immediately recognizable, but I've been awake for 36 hours so I'd probably make many typos... Be safe and see you next time!
http://imgur.com/a/ySLcm/all
--[[User:Purifier|Purifier]] ([[User talk:Purifier|talk]]) 11:39, 21 March 2016 (GMT)

== Please help ID (April 2016) ==
Please help ID this rifle. I thought it was a Desert Arms, but the stock is different. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]])
[[File:DaredevilS2E13 43.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Frank handles the rifle in "A Cold Day in Hell's Kitchen" (S2E13).]]
::It's a Barrett MRAD. [https://www.instagram.com/p/BDrAGMMEhB8/?taken-by=barrett&hl=en Barrett themselves even confirmed it via Instagram.]--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 19:13, 25 April 2016 (EDT)
::: Thanks. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 19:42, 25 April 2016 (EDT)

==ID==

Please help ID pistol on the right. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 19:55, 22 March 2016 (EDT)
[[File:DaredevilS2E01_10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The pistol on the right in "Bang" (S2E01).]]
:I'm pretty sure it is a [[CZ 75 P-07 Duty]], but not 100% as there is a weird digital compression line going across the middle of the gun which is throwing me a bit.

While I am here, firstly I'll pre-emptively post an image for the Scorpion Evo 3 pistols which show up a lot in this series:
[[File:Scorpion evo 3 s1 pistol.jpg|thumb|400px|none|CZ Scorpion Evo 3 S1 Pistol, fitted with 20 round magazine and hand stop - 9x19mm]]

Secondly, is it just me or is the Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon Scout too short?

My guess would be that it might be the shorter covert model:[[File:DTA SRS Covert.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon Scout Covert - .338 Lapua Magnum]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2016 (EDT)

:: I don't think so. In the second cap the railed forend looks to be the right length for the standard gun.. Certainly looks longer than that of the 'Covert' gun above. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 01:21, 23 March 2016 (EDT)
:::It is the 2nd cap that makes me think that it is the Covert model. Do you see that disturbance in the top rail where it has the solid section? This is the join between the receiver and the forearm. On the standard model there are something like 29 rail sections ahead of this point, but if you count the this gun I only get 14. On the Covert image I posted there are 13, but on other images I can find there are 14 so this may have changed over time. The vents are also much closer to those on the handguard of the Covert model (images I can find either have 5 or 6 vents and this only appears to have 4, however in some images from a similar angle you can't see through the rear vent as there appears to be something more substantial than just the barrel at this point). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:37, 23 March 2016 (EDT)
::::On 2nd thoughts, because this is from a front angle the reason you wouldn't see through the 5th vent as it would just be looking at the inside of the handguard as opposed to the others which would look through the vents on the other side. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:39, 23 March 2016 (EDT)
::::: Checking it again without late-night eyes the forend does not seem to be quite as long as the standard variant as I had thought. You also make a good point about the number of rail sections, as well. It still seems a bit long - Especially in the gap between the end of the forearm and the pistol grip, but this too could be due to the angle. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 14:45, 23 March 2016 (EDT)

== Frank's 1911 ==

Regarding Frank's 1911, I don't think it's the MEU, mainly due to the hammer differences. I watched the carousel scene and the diner scene again trying to figure out what it is but it's too dark to make a positive ID. I did manage to screencap his 1911 from the diner scene and there is a rail, hard to see in the picture but it's there [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 22:51, 25 April 2016 (EDT)

[[File:Daredevil_S02_E11_FrankDiner1911.jpg]]

File:Daredevil S02 E11 FrankDiner1911.jpg

2016-04-26T02:49:47Z

Bristow8411:

Talk:Spectre

2015-11-25T22:14:21Z

Bristow8411: /* Things that bugged me */

==Already?!==
Isn't it a bit early to have this page up, to my knowledge no official images from the set have been shown so we have no clue what weapons will be included, until closer to the release --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 02:41, 01 February 2015 (GMT)
: I agree, if there are no actual (and legitimate) firearm-showing images that can be posted, making a page is premature and unnecessary. I'm quite sure the admins will concur. I've marked the page for deletion - IF there are images that just haven't been put up yet, I'll take the <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki> tag off, but if not, well I think deletion is appropriate, as save for the poster image (which I'm sure will be archived here), there's pretty much nothing on it anyway. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:00, 31 January 2015 (EST)

Sorry for being an uber noob but what is the proper way to post a reply? I sincerely apologize for making a mess of things today. Anyway, there are indeed images of Daniel Craig wielding what appears to be a Walther P99 which is why I decided to create the page. Here is an image: http://www.jamesbondbrasil.com/wp-content/gallery/sp_aus_150115/jbbr_spectre_obertilliach_150115_foto_daniel_raunig_003.jpg [[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]]
::And we're not allowed to use unauthorized behind-the-scenes photos. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 22:37, 31 January 2015 (EST)
:There was no content on the page. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 22:36, 31 January 2015 (EST)
::On a side note tho, I'm glad they're going back to the P99, the regression way back to the PPK in the last film seemed odd to me --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 04:19, 01 February 2015 (GMT)
: What makes an image authorized or unauthorized? --[[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]]
::If it's an officially released behind-the-scenes photo, like on an official website, then it's fine. If it's some extra on set taking photos on his phone, then it's not. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 02:49, 1 February 2015 (EST)
:::[http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi3875712537/ This] would be authorized. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 07:08, 12 February 2015 (EST)

::::A promotional image was released today, alongside a BTS video, of Craig holding a Heckler & Koch VP9. Looks like SPECTRE is going to be the first film to feature the VP9. By the way, in the video, as Craig fires the VP9, it looks like the slide isn't moving, even though the gun still emits a muzzle flash. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 08:45, 12 February 2015 (EST)
[[Image:SPECTREPromoVP9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A promotional still of [[Daniel Craig]] holding a Heckler & Koch VP9 as James Bond in ''SPECTRE''.]]
:::::Because it's directly after disarming a bad guy in the sequence it could be a stunt prop like the old flash paper guns. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 07:48, 13 February 2015 (EST)

An image in the latest issue of Empire magazine features a photo of Mr. Hinx pointing what appears to be a AF2011 Dueller Prismatic. Can anyone else verify? [http://i.imgur.com/KWyIRJY.jpg/ Here] is a shot from the magazine. [http://i.imgur.com/OIIjrG8.jpg/ Here] is the image isolated. [[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]] ([[User talk:Andrewj28|talk]]) 03:27, 26 February 2015 (EST)
:I'm pretty sure it is; similar rear sight, barrels and the side rails. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 04:02, 26 February 2015 (EST)
::Wow, I never expected to see one of those in a movie. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 07:20, 26 February 2015 (EST)

Hi guys, It's been a really long time since my last contribution, here I've uploaded for you a couple pictures :-)
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Bautista_Spectre_AF2011-A1.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AF2011-A1.jpg

I'll leave to you the honor of putting them in the article :-) --[[User:Purifier|Purifier]]

Here's the new 2015 version from IWA (German Shot Show) a couple days ago http://i.imgur.com/95WqAg9.jpg , seems the exact version in the movie --[[User:Purifier|Purifier]] 12:27, 11 March 2015 (GMT)
:Thanks for the images, added them to the page. On a side note, what a god awful monstrosity! --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 18:27, 26 February 2015 (GMT)
::For the times when you just can't have two separate pistols :D --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 14:10, 26 February 2015 (EST)
Two new screenshots from today's video blog. Another shot of the [http://i.imgur.com/yHuPyKd.jpg/ AF2011] and Bond with a [http://i.imgur.com/Nmik1qt.jpg/ PPK or PPK/S] [[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]] ([[User talk:Andrewj28|talk]]) 16:25, 26 February 2015 (EST)

==PPK==
For crying out loud, enough with the PPK already! --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 16:39, 26 February 2015 (EST)
:The 007 connection is arguably the only reason why the PPK is still in production, right? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:47, 26 February 2015 (EST)

::Agreed, never seen the PPK as more than a backup weapon, they started to go in the right direction with the P99 in Tomorrow Never Dies onwards, and even more in the right direction by having him carry a Sig Quantum of Solace, even if it was one he captured and not actually issued to him, would like to see them leave the PPK behind and issue him with a Sig permanently. I honestly think they won't do it because all the fans of "Classic Bond" will have a god damn conniption fit that things are changing, and cry that they will boycott the films until the PPK makes a return. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 22:20, 26 February 2015 (GMT)
:::The man's still a secret agent, and he has to carry something that won't print while wearing a tailored suit. That said, I'm surprised Walther hasn't pushed the PPS on the franchise yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 17:42, 26 February 2015 (EST)
::::Yeah in situations like going under cover in a party I can understand it, but there have been time he has gone into full engagements with the PPK, which isn't exactly the best idea. - [[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 00:58, 27 February 2015 (GMT)
:::::Do we beat up on 007's horrible choice of weapons every time a new Bond film comes out, or did it just start with Skyfall? --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 20:22, 26 February 2015 (EST)
::::::I normally like to have a little moan before every release, but this is my first one on this website, usually it's just me and my friends, good times - [[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 03:17, 27 February 2015 (GMT)
While I don't mind a little change for a good reason, change for the sake of change is hardly a good thing. And for me, that was all the switch to the P99 was. The PPK has its merits for who and what Bond is, more than that though, it's iconic, part of what makes 007 as we've seen and known him. Changing that just for sake of having something different would be a mistake. It'd be like switching Dirty Harry's Model 29 for a .357 Snub, even though there's more an argument for the change and ''less'' for keeping it the same, in terms of practicality as opposed to Bond's PPK. Again, it's a part of the franchise, the gun is as much a character as Bond himself in that regard. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:47, 26 February 2015 (EST)

Walther does not have any real pull on the Bond franchise.Craig's suits in the film aren't even fitte for a gun. a still from Skyfall's gunfight in the Instanbul square shows Craig's shoulder holster printing badly. Frankly,if we look at Craig's gunfights in his Bond films, the weapon his Bond does best with is the Glock 17 in Skyfall, and one handed at that. It seems as if Bond&Co. have had a gun pick up brand in each of the Craig films:Browning HP,Sig P226in QOS,and the Glock in Skyfall. At least Craig's Bond picks up loose guns :)--[[User:Tecolote|Tecolote]] ([[User talk:Tecolote|talk]]) 02:54, 27 February 2015 (EST)
:Besides with an IWB holster it is even easier to hide a compact or even a full size pistol under a suit jacket, but ideally you don't wanna be grabbing any which pistol from the ground to use, if he was to take a pistol that suits the situation better (ideally one that holds more than 8-10 rounds), he wouldn't have to be grabbing pistols that are kept in god knows what condition off hapless chumps, and then have less risk of the weapon jamming on him and taking a hollow point between the eyes, (and yes I know that wouldn't happen because this is a movie, but in reality you'd be surprised how many idiots don't clean there weapons on a regular basis, once had a friend whose Hi-Power wouldn't even cycle because of all the crap inside it, he had to manually work the slide after every shot and he had no idea why) - [[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 14:49, 27 February 2015 (GMT)

We all know why it has to have a PPK. It's so iconic that you can't have a Bond spy movie without the PPK. It' pretty much a sin. Yeah for a modern day practical purposes, he should have other guns. In one of the books, his favorite is actually the ASP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:12, 27 February 2015 (EST)
: The ASP is arguably ''worse'' than the PPK. Sure its 9x19, but it doesn't really have sights and spare parts will be impossible to come by. Why can't British writers do guns decently?--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 19:06, 27 February 2015 (EST)
:: Totally agree that the PPK isn't suitable for the kind of adventures Bond get himself into. Real life secret agents use them precisely because they are NOT like bond. They don't shoot often and need maximum discretion. Bond practically announces himself everywhere he goes and shoots very often. As for the ASP, its design has become too dated, and there are many other firearms that can replace it. The Glock 26, Walther CCP, Beretta Px4 Storm, Sig P938, etc. are all excellent compact designs in 9mm with good firepower. Some of them even have nice flowing lines to boot. But for serious gunfighters, they will probably use a larger pistol such as the P99 or Glock 19.

It’s odd that they bought the PPK back in Quantum of Solace. Just about all the Bond movies from 1995’s GoldenEye onwards have a tendency to have some character ''(*cough* Judi Dench *cough* M *cough*)'' remind Bond - and the audience - that cold war is over. Considering that Skyfall had pretty hefty symbolism with “death of Bond” in the beginning and the destruction of the iconic Aston Martin from Goldfinger in the end, pretty much telling that the old Bond is dead and it’s time to finally start a new era. So with all that telling that “cold war is over and it’s a new age” BS, why are they still making him stick with that ''cold war'' - '''''hell, World War II''''' – relic after all this? I say; if they want to rise out of the nostalgic dumps of cold war, Bond needs to get rid of the PPK. It’s the last thing keeping him from getting over his roots. '''''His Eisenhower vs Khrushchev era Cold War roots.''''' [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 13:18, 28 February 2015 (EST)
:I remember in some of the novels in the 80's they "updated" his carry weapon at first to an early FN model (1903 I think) and then to a VP70 (which I'd love to see him use in a film) before settling on the ASP for the remainder of the 80's and through the mid 90's, and in the Deaver novel "Carte Blanche" he carries the PPS, so the PPk isn't as much of the James Bond mythos as a lot of people think. I for one agree that it's time to get rid of the antique PPK and replace it, at least, with the PPS but ideally with the Sig P226R as it is used by the rest of the British armed forces (although I think SIS issues either Glock 17, Browning 9mm, or the PP9) - [[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 19:49, 28 February 2015 (GMT)
:: Bah, whatever the books describe, we're still talking about the films here, and Bond has carried the PPK in all but a few of them. I don't see how keeping the PPK makes him worse off, nor do I see what a big improvement changing it would do for the character or franchise. 'New' Bond? We've arguably had 'new' Bonds ever since Sean Connery stopped playing the role. It's not being nostalgic - Again, that gun has become an iconic and relatively consistent part of the film franchise, much like his 'shaken, not stirred' martinis. To just change something like that out of hand would be silly. They have changed his sidearms, but his use of the P99 and P5 were little more than advertising plugs by Walther (though I thought the P99 was a nice change) - It's clear changing his sidearm has done relatively little to have him "rise out of the nostalgic dumps", as you say, and I think that will still hold true. Part of the problem is that Bond himself is a product of his time, you'll never really eliminate that aspect completely, no matter what. Granted I don't really care whether he keeps it or not, but I don't get all the hostility for him keeping a "WWII relic", mainly the implication that carrying something "antique" is a drawback for that reason alone - How many 'modern' parties swear by the 1911 design still? It's older than the Walther PP or PPK. More than a century old now. Do you have something against a weapon's age? If that isn't it, and you want the franchise to truly and wholly update Bond with a new sidearm, well that's fine. I personally don't see what the big deal is over him still carrying the sidearm that most everyone still almost universally associates with 007/James Bond (and still certainly works as far as a concealable compact firearm needs to work). I also don't see the big deal over changing it either so much. Whatever either way. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:38, 28 February 2015 (EST)
:::Ouch. I didn’t mean to strike a nerve. And I don’t have anything against PPK – it’s a sexy f***ing gun - even though re-reading my post, it kinda-sorta does sound like it. Me and my non-native English speaker wording. Eep. ''What I tried to get across'' is that the ''movies themselves'' have been bit insistent in trying to get over the “Bond is a symbol of cold war” image and suddenly going back to the PPK in QoS over the P99 that Bond carried from end of 1997's Tomorrow Never Dies to 2006's Casino Royale isn’t quite consistent with their line of though. Did they bring the PPK back just so they could eventually recreate the gun swap scene from Dr.No in close future in post reboot canon? [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 13:03, 1 March 2015 (EST)
:::: Oh it's ok, I wasn't sure either, but I wanted to make a note. It's cool man. As for switching back to the PPK, I don't know what's really up with that either. Like I said, I get your point about updating the character and franchise, as well as your point about the inconsistencies. But as said above, having a Bond film without a PPK (or at least, a Walther) would be almost sacrilege to some at this point. Again, I don't really care ''that'' much either way but that aspect is still there. What can ya do? I certainly would prefer if he stuck with a Walther, personally - Though I'd have thought they'd stick with the P99. Again though, what can ya do? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 15:38, 1 March 2015 (EST)

Are we sure that's a PPK/S in the single still to be be released so far and not a standard PPK?--[[User:Tecolote|Tecolote]] ([[User talk:Tecolote|talk]]) 23:43, 28 February 2015 (EST)
:It's impossible to tell from the angle of the picture, I only put it as the PPK/S because it was the weapon used in the last film and will most likely be the same in this one, if another picture surfaces that show that it isn't then I'll change it. - [[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 17:07, 01 March 2015 (GMT)

I've said it before when this discussion erupted for Skyfall and I'll say it again--we're missing the point. It doesn't matter what pistol is the most reliable, relevant, perfect CCW. It's Bond. 007. Sharp tuxes. Aston Martins. Walthers. It's just part of his character. I'm a die hard SIG fan, but if Bond carried a P224 in Spectre I might just have to boycott the movie. Just as he has to drive an Aston Martin, Bond simply has to carry a Walther. I still think he should switch between a P99 and either a PPK or PPS depending on the situation, but those are the only acceptable choices. I think people are just wanting to see pistols that are their personal favorites, which also happen to fall under the "improvement to a PPK" category. The Bond films aren't about realism, they never really have been. It's about lighthearted badassery.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 21:23, 2 March 2015 (EST)

:Well said JazzBlackBelt. Well said. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 22:23, 21 March 2015 (EDT)

== Not a PPK/S afterall ==
So according to a member over at waltherforums who is apparently in the know, the PPK/S used in Skyfall was really just a PPK. The /S tacked onto the end of it was actually the writers way of designating it as a "Signature" model or micro dermal sensor model. They were completely unaware that Walther actually produces a real PPK/S model. So suppose in Skyfall Bond was issued a micro dermal sensored P99 in the museum by Q, he would have likely called it a P99/S. It was all just a coincidence.

The reason I post this here is because he went on to say that the same resin prop PPK gun used in Skyfall was used in the SPECTRE teaser poster. So if this is all true (he also provided several images of the props so it may very well be), then these pages may need to be updated. [[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]] ([[User talk:Andrewj28|talk]]) 20:33, 25 March 2015 (EDT)
:Had a good look at some images from Skyfall and some comparing the PPK to the PPK/S and made this crude (really crude, sorry) comparison between the PPK (Red circle) and PPK/S (Green circle) along side an image from Skyfall, and it looks like the one used was in fact a PPK/S. The difference is minute (flat edge on the PPK/s and slight beveled edge on the PPK), but definitely there. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 01:37, 26 March 2015 (GMT)
[[Image:Bond_PPK_vs_PPKS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
::I had found this pic of the custom Walther used on the set of Skyfall and it clearly shows that the Walther was a PPK not a PPK/S--[[User:Gunfan2818|Gunfan2818]] ([[User talk:Gunfan2818|talk]]) 03:29, 26 March 2015 (EDT)
[[Image:SkyfallPPKCustom.jpeg|thumb|none|300px|]]
:::Well I stand corrected, nice find. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 12:19, 26 March 2015 (GMT)
:::: Here is a quote from the waltherforums member regarding the concept images above ''"These concept designs show that the two switches allowed the software chip containing the users preferences to be removed. Originally the pistol had more functions like double-tap one trigger pull etc. Again it was another coincidence that the design looked like the S&W model with beavertail. In reality, the signature grips were that severely cutting into the frame and spring that it would make a real PPK non operational, so all the PPK/S's you see are 3D printed models, non functioning with radio operated LED's. the only time you see a real PPK here is when Bond is in teh car and activates it for the first time."'' [[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]] ([[User talk:Andrewj28|talk]]) 15:18, 26 March 2015 (EDT)

:::: As mentioned above, when we see Bond activate the "Signature" gun in the car after tailing Patrice in Shanghai, that is a real PPK with a custom grip sleeve slipped in place of normal grips. Below is a photo the member has provided me of the grip sleeve on a real PPK. He noted thatit is a bit battered and the buttons have come off, but the LED activation still works. Also, he told me a PP magazine was used to house the electronics since a PPK mag would no longer fit (due to the length of the grip). [[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]] ([[User talk:Andrewj28|talk]]) 15:42, 26 March 2015 (EDT)
[[Image:SkyfallGripSleeve.jpeg|thumb|none|300px|]]

:AFAIK, the PPK/S only exists to get around GCA 1968, so would they even be available outside the US? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:27, 26 March 2015 (EDT)

:: Good question. I'm not sure. [[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]] ([[User talk:Andrewj28|talk]]) 15:42, 26 March 2015 (EDT)

== Arsenal Firearms LRC-2 ==
New official image from the set of SPECTRE. Bond is reportedly carrying an Arsenal Firearms LRC-2. [[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]] ([[User talk:Andrewj28|talk]]) 07:17, 28 March 2015 (EDT)
[[Image:Spectre lrc-2.jpg|thumb|none|300px|]]
:Thanks for sharing, I've added it to the page. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 18:36, 28 March 2015 (GMT)
::I dont think that is right, the top rail has a break for the ejection port whereas the LRC-2 has a continuous rail. To me it looks more like a KPOS conversion kit:[[File:KPOS G17.jpg|thumb|400px|none|A Glock pistol fitted in a FAB Defense KPOS Glock to Carbine PDW Conversion Kit]]There are a few other differences as well such as it lacking the AR-15 style charging handle of the LRC-2, the stock being different, and the general overall proportions being closer to the KPOS (to my eye anyway), but the rail is the most obvious one. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 07:58, 23 July 2015 (EDT)

:::If the carbine conversion is a AF LRC-2 it normally comes with a fluted 12 inch replacement barrel. If it is a LRC-2, the only gun that fits into this FAB Defense produced kit is the Arsenal Firearms Strike One. I should know, as I am the regional importer and distributor. I also don't think this is a LRC-2. The gun in the still seems to be equipped with BUIS and a black ATPIAL(AN/PEQ-15) on the right forward rail. --[[User:Warrernoia|Warrernoia]] ([[User talk:Warrernoia|talk]]) 18:48, 23 July 2015 (GMT)
Here's a [http://i.imgur.com/wbTJHQe.jpg Screencap] from the latest trailer. As mentioned above, it does indeed appear to be a FAB Defense KPOS rather than a LRC-2. [[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]] ([[User talk:Andrewj28|talk]]) 22:44, 7 October 2015 (EDT)

== New firearm from Morocco scenes ==
In the [https://youtu.be/enQwXQgZo6s?t=24s newest TV spot], Bond is seen shouldering a new firearm. I have yet to find an HD version of the TV spot to screenshot it but fortunately a clearer view of the gun was published in Event Magazine ([http://i.imgur.com/8MA8Vst.jpg link]). Can anyone identify it?
[[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]] ([[User talk:Andrewj28|talk]]) 23:31, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
:Not positive but it looks like the shortened VZ.58 compact rifles seen in Strike Back Season 4. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] ([[User talk:ThePotShot|talk]]) 01:58, 29 September 2015 (EDT)
::I agree, appears to be VZ58 compact in 5.56x45mm --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 06:11, 29 September 2015 (EDT)
Here's a higher resolution [http://i.imgur.com/rNVYrmL.jpg screencap] of the suspected vz.58 SBR from the final trailer [[User:Andrewj28|Andrewj28]] ([[User talk:Andrewj28|talk]]) 22:30, 7 October 2015 (EDT)

== Guns not (yet) listed on the moviepage ==

Was privileged enough to see this movie last night when it premiered in Holland. Much work has been done already on this page, but for future reference, I am listing the guns that should still be added in due course:

* '''SIG-Sauer P226R''': given to Madeleine by Bond in the train scene, he specifically refers to it as the 'SIG-Sauer P226'.
* '''Steyr AUG A3''': Bond picks it up from a display at Q's underground laboratory.
* '''H&K G3 (?):''' full-sized assault rifle with silencer leaning against a wall to the left of the big clipboard in the Tangiers safehouse.

By the way, you guys are 100% right about the vz. 58 SBR, one is seen in the Tangiers safehouse and it gets plenty of showtime in the Morocco scenes! - [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] ([[User talk:PeeWee055|talk]]) 06:56, 30 October 2015 (EDT)

== Things that bugged me==

Apparently James Bond in this movie keeps his Walther in condition 3 because every time I takes it out, he's racking the slide. The other thing is in Mexico City where he turns on a "laser" to help aim and that's what gave his position away...really really stupid moment for a Bond movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:47, 7 November 2015 (EST)

The "laser" was a laser microphone which I believe was visible so that the audience could tell what it was being used for, while the other characters couldn't see it. The men in the meeting were unaware of him until he decided to open fire. Not disagreeing though with how he kept his Walther though. Probably done for dramatic effect. --[[User:HazeGray&Underway|HazeGray&Underway]] ([[User talk:HazeGray&Underway|talk]]) 17:24, 8 November 2015 (EST)

:I was paying real attention to when he turned on the laser and it clearly showed the bad guys reacting to seeing the laser and turning to open fire on Bond first before he returned fire [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:29, 8 November 2015 (EST)
::Maybe they eventually noticed the laser, I cant really remember, but they definitely didn't notice it when he turned it on. It was a laser mic so it was on for the whole conversation he was listening in to, if they did see the laser it was probably when he pointed it at someone to shoot them. As for the condition 3 thing, a character chambering their pistol tends to be movie short hand for the character saying "I am now ready" so it was more likely than not done for plot/stylistic reasons. However, The PPK is a weapon that people may be more likely to carry in condition 3 due to the fact that it has a decocking safety but the DA trigger pull is atrocious. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:01, 9 November 2015 (EST)

:I haven't actually seen the movie yet, so I can't comment on the laser, but I don't see the problem with Bond carrying condition 3, lots of people do, I wouldn't personally, but that's my choice --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 23:41, 08 November 2015 (GMT)

::Condition 3 would make sense for everyday carry as an agent like Bond is. While we, the audience, certainly see him use it quite a bit, he's also going to have long periods of carrying it, especially in "non-combat" areas and with plenty of other ways to deal with threats or targets. Being a spy rather than a soldier, it does make a certain amount of sense. More generally, I was quite impressed with the firearms usage in this movie, proper technique/operation and all that. The scene were he uses the vz.68 with single shots surprised and impressed me, not only that a movie has the hero actually use semi, but also how effective he was with it. The finale sequence involving his ammo was also cool. I also liked how he didn't just haphazardly discard all the weapons he used after a few shots or when they run empty. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:36, 23 November 2015 (EST)

::: Cool detail I also noticed is that Bond always has a holster for his PPK, even when it's in his waistband he's got a IWB holster. Just a neat detail I noticed too [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]])

Talk:Spectre

2015-11-24T19:44:41Z

Bristow8411: /* Things that bugged me */

Talk:Furious 7

2015-09-18T22:50:19Z

Bristow8411: /* Deckard's SIG P226 */

== 7.62 AR ID ==

[[File:Furious7 110.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]I'm fairly sure that this isn't a DRD as firstly there are some differences in the receiver, and secondly there is an "LMT" logo on the lower. I think it is an LM7MWS, but I do not know much about the LMT rifles (although I know it isn't the LM308MWS/LM7/L129A1) so might have the wrong model:[[File:LMT LM8MWS.jpg|thumb|500px|none|LMT LM8MWS - 7.62x51mm]][http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Lewis_Machine__Tool_LMT_LM8MWS_Tactical_AR-10_7.62x51mm_NATO_.308_Win._Upper_Receiver_SHOT_Show_2012_DefenseReview.com_DR_6.jpg Here] is a closeup of the left side of the receiver which seems to be a match. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:54, 3 November 2014 (EST)

== LMT launcher? ==

Please help ID. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 20:26, 3 November 2014 (EST)
[[File:Furious7 120.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:Furious7 121.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:I think it's [http://www.lmtstore.com/m203/l2bpg.html this] with the pistol grip removed. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 20:52, 3 November 2014 (EST)

== Brian's Glock ==

[[File:Furious7 108.jpg|thumb|none|800px]]
It seems Brian's handgun is a Glock 19 - note how the bottom of the grip is not parallel to the slide.
--[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 14:06, 15 April 2015 (EDT)
: I agree about it being a G19 - In addition to the above note, the grip itself and and slide both seem a bit short for a G17. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 20:30, 20 April 2015 (EDT)

==Weapons==
So I added the stuff I can remember. Couple things:
:1.Hobbs and Eleana use SiG P226s during the fight with Deckard, as does Ket on the bus, right?
:2.What were Frank Petty/"Mr. Nobody"'s men using? I know they were some heavily tricked-out AR-15 things, but any ideas?
:3. When Dekard party-crashes the Ab Dhubai heist, does he have a SG 552, SG 553, or the P556 carbine thing?
:4. Any idea what Kiet's team were using while fighting Brian in the finale?
:5. MAG 58 or M240 in the Land Rovers?--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

::I'd say Deckard uses a SG 553-1 SP (image [[:File:SIG SG 553-1 SP.jpg|here]]), though I can't confirm it 100%. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 17:02, 20 April 2015 (EDT)

I might be wrong but it looked more like and XD was used by the rock, also does anyone have any idea what kurt russel uses in the shootout at shaw's hideout, i was thinking p230 but they're pretty hard to see so I can't be sure.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|One shot is all it takes.]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 00:45, 6 June 2015 (EDT)

Also what is the AR that brian uses during the same shootout?--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|One shot is all it takes.]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 00:46, 6 June 2015 (EDT)

I though Kurt Russel had PPKs, but SiG P230s are possible. Probably gona need to wait for the DVD to be sure--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 21:35, 6 June 2015 (EDT)

Hobbs was using a Springfield XD in the fight at the DSS Building--[[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] ([[User talk:ZombieKiller|talk]]) 04:22, 11 July 2015 (EDT)

== Redirect Needed? ==

Could someone add a redirect to this page from "Fast & Furious 7"? That is the film's release title here in the UK. The other F&F film pages all have redirects from their international titles (e.g. ''Fast & Furious 6'' has a redirect from ''Furious 6'', its title in the UK) so I don't see why this one shouldn't follow suit. I'd do it myself but I honestly can't work out how to create a new page on here.--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] ([[User talk:Leigh Burne|talk]]) 06:08, 29 May 2015 (EDT)
:I created it, but in the future, all you have to do is type the title in the search box, and if it doesn't already exist, it'll show up as a red link and the page asks if you want to create the page. To do a redirect, type in <nowiki> #REDIRECT[[<destination>]]</nowiki>. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 07:53, 29 May 2015 (EDT)
::Thanks! I know how to create redirects, I just couldn't figure out how to make a new page on which to put it; the wikis I usually edit simply have a create page button, but I couldn't find one here. Never mind anyway, noted for the future.--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] ([[User talk:Leigh Burne|talk]]) 09:00, 29 May 2015 (EDT)
:::If you click on one of the category tabs on the sidebar menu you will find a text field to fill in with a create page button. It doesn't actually matter which category you do this through so can just click any. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:13, 30 May 2015 (EDT)

==SIG SG 552-2==

The rifle that Stathem is holding in Dubai has an AR-15 magazine inserted so it can't be a 552 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:54, 1 August 2015 (EDT)
:Closest match that I can think of is a SIG556 SWAT SBR, but the handguard is different so it may have started off as something else which has been customised into a similar finished product. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:13, 2 August 2015 (EDT)

== Deckard's SIG P226 ==

I can't tell if my eyes are playing tricks on me or if the P226 that Shaw uses is always a P226R? It appears to have a rail under the P226 section, but I can't tell for certain. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 18:50, 18 September 2015 (EDT)

[[File:Furious7_P226.jpg]]

Talk:Furious 7

2015-09-18T22:48:32Z

Bristow8411: /* Deckard's SIG P226 */ new section

Talk:Die Another Day

2015-02-19T05:42:46Z

Bristow8411: /* P99 "disabled firing pin"? */

==Umarex p99 PAK blank fire replica==
The Propstore of London is selling fired PAK blanks claiming to be used in the production of Die Another Day. Stating in the listing that Umarex provided the production with 9mm PAK blank replicas because the real guns were unreliable with blanks.--[[User:James3|James3]] 08:32, 13 October 2011 (CDT)

=="Type 88"==
I don't think it is a Type 88. The only Type 88s around are in North Korea, which I don't think they would be handing out to a film that made it look bad. There are 5.45mm steel magazines for the AK around, like this: http://home.comcast.net/~shooter2_indy/ak74_mag_guide.html So I think it's just a mocked up AK74 to look like a North Korean Type 88. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 13:23, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

:You're correct. That is quite obviously a Chinese Type 56-1 rifle (not an AK-74; the magazine is too curved for 5.45x39mm) mocked up to look like a DPRK Type 88 rifle. Some anonymous user changed it without our permission, because he apparently didn't stop to consider what you said. But you're right; there's no way that that's a genuine Type 88 rifle. North Korea, unlike the Chinese, has never exported its weapons for Western consumers, so there's no way that the movie's armorers could have access to a Type 88. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
::I agree with Hoot. There is no way an North Korean gun would find its way to a western movie.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:10, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

why dont we have the bond movies titles in order so there easier to find?

:They're right here: http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Category:James_Bond

Does Desmond Llewelyn need his own page? He played Q in all those movies, surely he's handled firearms at some point. --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] 20:45, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

== Stechkin APS ==

Do North Korean soldiers use this machine pistol as one of their sidearms in real life?

::No, the North Korean People's army uses indigenously produced versions of the Tokarev TT-33 (as the Type 68), Makarov PM and CZ-75 (as the Baek-Du-San).

Why not? It's Russian.

:: And what? Political and especially economic relations even between the USSR and the North Korea were not such good as thought in the US. In the USSR the Korean communists always considered a bit mad. And now economic relations between Russia and the North Korea are almost stopped, except official diplomacy. Besides the North Korea was always closer to China. [[User:Flexo|Flexo]] 10:43, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

== DShK image ==

Could an admin switch the DShK example image to this:

[[Image:DShKM-vehicle-mount.jpg|thumb|none|400px|DShKM heavy machine gun in standard vehicle mounting on a Romanian TR-85 main battle tank - 12.7x108mm]]

I just realised we didn't have a picture of the vehicle mount (which looks rather different to the normal gun) and I think this makes a better example. I'd do it myself but the page is locked. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:59, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

== MAC 10 ==

I just want to know why the KOREAN ARMY had MAC 10 machine pistols if it is american made. Just wanted to know if there was any history behind it.
thanx
:The UK has had MAC-10s in its' inventory for quite some time (as has the US) but I doubt they have seen any action for just as long. I remember seeing a pic of a 22nd SAS trooper in an early anti-terror kit (pre-Princess Gate) where his main weapon was a MAC-10 and not the ubiquitous MP-5. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:52, 30 March 2012 (CDT)

== SIG Sauers ==

why not use the same SIG for everyone in the training simulation? Why 28 and 26?

== Stechkin holster ==

What holster is this?:[[File:DAD 1012.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
I thought the Stechkin used its own shoulder stock as a holster.

== P99 "disabled firing pin"? ==

Can someone just clear this up for me? I noticed on the page that someone described Bond's P99 malfunction being due to the firing pin being disabled - now I know in a Bond film (especially the pre-Craig era) that pretty much anything goes, but I've always wondered (in reality) wouldn't you have too strip the pistol to get at the firing pin?

Cheers guys - [[Fixer]]

It's worth noting that exactly what is done to Bond's pistol to make it incapable of firing isn't actually stated. So whoever decided it was a case of "disabled firing pin" was making things up. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 03:39, 17 February 2013 (EST)

Actually in the novelization of the film, in this particular scene, it describes Bond pulling the trigger only to hear the sound of a disabled firing pin. I forget specifically whether it's described as disabled or bent but that is stated in the book. Probably where it was gotten from [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 00:42, 19 February 2015 (EST)

The closeup of the S&W M10HB stuck to the MRI looks like it is a resin or rubber stunt gun, though beautifully gun. It'd also make sense to use one in that scence.--[[User:Tecolote|Tecolote]] ([[User talk:Tecolote|talk]]) 23:50, 21 October 2014 (EDT)

== Hollywood tactics ==

Watched this again for some reason and it does contain a wonderful example of one of the Cardinal Rules of Hollywood Tactics: "When a plan fails, regardless of ''why'' it fails, it must be scrapped entirely and a totally new plan attempted." I mean they launch one ASAT, discover that the satellite can fire a beam which requires pointing the entire thing directly at the target and can probably only function at certain angles relative to the sun, and nobody says "hey, I know, let's have ''two'' missiles come at it from different directions!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 01:01, 18 February 2015 (EST)

Talk:Covert Affairs - Season 5

2015-01-08T04:29:49Z

Bristow8411: /* Eyal's USP? */ new section

== Please help ID ==

Please help ID these weapons --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 21:38, 7 January 2015 (EST)

==Unknown==
Kravec handles a sniper rifle from his locker in "Elevate Me Later".

The rifle action looks like a Remington 700, but not sure about the stock.
[[File:CAS5E05 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kravec chambers the sniper rifle.]]
[[File:CAS5E05 08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Annie loads Kravec to aim the sniper rifle at her chest.]]

A McQuade Security contrator is armed with an assault rifle on a photo seen in "Silence Kit".
[[File:CAS5E04 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A McQuade Security contractor posing in the photograph.]]

== Eyal's USP? ==

Is it just me or does there appear to be a slide mounted safety on the picture of the supposed stainless USP? Or am I just seeing things? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]])

Talk:Fast & Furious 6

2013-12-17T02:45:09Z

Bristow8411: /* Brian's handgun */

==Please help ID==
Luke Hobbs ([[Dwayne Johnson]]) uses a tacti-cool bolt-action rifle during the confrontation between Dom and Shaw.
[[Image:Fast6TactiCool.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Remington 700 in an AICS stock, maybe?]]
--[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 05:18, 12 December 2013 (EST)
Isn't this a Blaser?--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 04:35, 13 December 2013 (EST)
::Yes. I put this up here before somebody identified it. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:59, 13 December 2013 (EST)

==Gal Gadot's Sidearm==
I think the pistol she is holding is actually a [[SIG SP 2022]], not an HK P30. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 21:41, 8 February 2013 (EST)
:: Same here, definitely not a P30. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 02:14, 9 February 2013 (EST)

== Letty's Pistol ==

I don't think Letty was using a Beretta PX4 Storm. The front looks all wrong. But I can't quite tell what it is. Doesn't look like a Walther PPK to me. Maybe an Walther P5 Compact maybe? --[[User:Mormonpowerranger521|Mormonpowerranger521]] 1:44, 27 April 2013 MST

I just saw the movie and according to the movie script, it's supposed to be a PSM [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:53, 25 May 2013 (EDT)
: It is hardly a genuine PSM. An IZh-75 or Baykal-441 in .25 ACP are more like to appear in a movie. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 11:34, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

Either the shot is reversed or it's not a PSM (the bullet they pull out of Don would suggest something in similar caliber) but in the shot I see something like the ejection port either on the left side or it goes around the upper slide a bit the PSM just has one on the right side, could be mirrored though. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 15:57, 4 June 2013 (EDT)

::I don't think it's a PSM either, it looks more like another Makarov PM to me (pictured below) --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 05:18, 12 December 2013 (EST)
[[Image:Fast6PSM.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Definitely not a PSM.]]

While I agree the gun Letty uses for most of the film is a Makarov and not a PSM, I think the gun she uses to shoot Dom ''is'' in fact a PSM.
[[Image:FF6-pistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Letty with the PSM.]]
Look at the shape of the trigger guard ahead of her finger. Doesn't look at all like a Makarov to me. Also the breech is on the wrong side for a Makarov, and the front of the slide seems to be angled, which on a Makarov it is not.--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] ([[User talk:Leigh Burne|talk]]) 03:59, 13 December 2013 (EST)

:I definitely see what you're talking about. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:59, 13 December 2013 (EST)

== Other Weapons ==
In one scene where Gisele Harabo is seen wielding a SP2022 when confronting the HKPD, Han has a USP pistol, I think that it was a compact model.
The Rock used a sniper rifle, which I believe was a Blaser R93
And the the bad guy's crew used a 6 shot grenade launcher that looked like a M32 or the short barreled Mark14 [[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

:Are you sure Han was using a USP? I coulda sworn I saw an SP2022. --[[User:Mormonpowerranger521|Mormonpowerranger521]] 12:12, 8 June 2013 MST
::Stills on Apples trailer site show Han with a USP Compact, and he's definitely not holding a SIG Pro in the cap with him and Gisele. They also have a still with Elena holding a SIG Pro.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 03:09, 9 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Any possibility of Han's gun being a Glock? Front end resembles that of a Glock. 19 maybe? --[[User:Mormonpowerranger521|Mormonpowerranger521]] 17:19, 9 June 2013 MST
::::Definitely a USP, there is a clear side on view in the full film. [[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

== Letty's Glock ==

Did they ever give a reason for why Letty's Glock 26 was only loaded with 3 or 4 bullets? Did she fire it at all before it was pulled on the plane or was it just a perfect coincidence she loaded only 3 or 4 rounds in the magazine before taking it? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 18:43, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

== Brian's handgun ==
Looks like that his SIG-Sauer P226r briefly changes into a older model P226 model dirung the film. Just look
[[Image:Fast6P226WalkerPromo.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]
:Nah, man. You can see it has the accessory rail if you blow up the image. Also, remember to sign your posts by clicking that image of the writing pen. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 05:45, 14 December 2013 (EST)

I think his handgun is a P226E2 however. On the big holders stores have ,it had a really nice view of his 226 and it looked like the sandpaper texture. Also not sure if it's limited strictly to the E2 version but there is also the external extractor [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 21:45, 16 December 2013 (EST)

== Letty's First Gun ==

I don't think the gun Letty uses to shoot Dom is the Makarov that she uses later, it appears to be too small. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 14:55, 14 December 2013 (EST)

Talk:Burn Notice - Season 6

2013-06-27T01:32:53Z

Bristow8411: /* Was that a S&W M&P? */ new section

== Gun Promos ==
[[File:Michael Westen S5 Shotgun 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:312064 10150995561660108 749546975 n.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:365364.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Please help ID(Updated) ==

Not sure about the black rifle. Please help. Could it be a [[Bushmaster ACR]]? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 18:04, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
[[File:BurnS6E06 106.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:BurnS6E06 112.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:BurnS6E06 103.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:BurnS6E06 101.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:BurnS6E06 109.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Looks like an ACR to me, too. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:23, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
: It looks like an Magpul Masada PTS ACR to me [JavierMdR]

Its a Bushmaster ACR. The PTS Airsoft replica has a built in Flip up front sight. The one in the pic has an Magpul MBUS front sight, which the real Bushmaster ACR has. [theszurk3]

== Nickel 1911 ==

In the second screenshot it looks like it has Colt rollmarks, just because it has the full length guide rod does not make it not a Colt pistol as the full length guide rod could have been installed after purchase. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 03:05, 16 June 2012 (CDT)
:There's also a quick shot when Michael picks it up that it shows Colt on the magazine. I know it's not conclusive but just as compelling FWIW. I'm also inclined to believe the guide rod is aftermarket. I'm having trouble coming up with 1911 manufacturers that include a stainless guide rod stock yet have all other "vanilla" features like a standard (non-beavertailed) grip or raised sights. I think Norinco MIGHT make a 1911 like that, but the information is really unreliable. - [[User:IGemini|IGemini]] 19:52, 22 June 2012 (CDT)

== Glock ==

Does anyone else think that the Glock used in the season 6 premier is a Glock 19, not a 17? --[[User:Mormonpowerranger521|Mormonpowerranger521]]

I'm with you. It looks to short to be a Glock 17. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 12:30, 16 June 2012 (CDT)
:I agree.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:38, 16 June 2012 (CDT)
[[Image:Glock19pistol.jpg|thumb|none|300px|3rd Generation Glock 19 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:BurnNS6E01 08.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The guard holds his pistol on an "injured" Michael. (S6E01)]]

==New guns==

Since nobody's worked on this page for a while, a few observations about new guns in the series:

*(1.) Jesse seems to have started using a rail-frame, stainless P226R (updating his sidearm choice slightly) in this season, though I also thought it appeared at least once last season.

*(2.) Episode 6x06 prominently featured Smith & Wesson M&P-15 rifles with dark earth furniture. I think this may be the first time that the M&P-15 has appeared in Hollywood.

-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 10:53, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

:I noticed the rifles you mentioned, but from the glimpses I've seen at least one looked like it had Magpul furniture. I'll probably re-watch it and see.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:25, 28 July 2012 (CDT)

What makes you think this is an M&P-15, from what I can see it is just an M4 with Magpul furniture. Are there any unique features that make this an M&P-15 rather than a Colt gun? Anyway, the M&P-15 MOE (the version with the Magpul furniture) has a 16" barrel whereas this gun has the standard M4 14.5" barrel. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:33, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

:: That is a Bushmaster ACR MOE M4-Type Carbine [User:JavierMdR]

:Fair enough, you might be right, although I'm pretty sure that they make LE versions of the M&P-15 that have 14.5" barrels. Though it also doesn't seem to have the correct markings on the magazine well... -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:21, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

:Some shots of the rifle, is it in MP15? No MP logo? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 18:29, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

::In "Shock Wave" (S6E06), the [[M16 rifle series|Smith & Wesson MP15]] is seen carried by some of the men employed by Garret Hartley ([[William Mapother]]).
[[File:BurnS6E06 16.jpg|thumb|none|800px|"Shock Wave" (S6E06)]]
[[File:BurnS6E06 11.jpg|thumb|none|800px|"Shock Wave" (S6E06)]]

::I guess that for now, we should just put that it's an M4 with Magpul furniture, as Commando pointed out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:20, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

:: That is a Bushmaster ACR MOE M4-Type Carbine [User:JavierMdR]

:::Are you referring to the [[Remington R5 RGP]] because it is clearly not that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 01:03, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

::::OK, I think I have found proof that this weapon is indeed a Smith & Wesson M&P-15. Here is a link to the web site of Weapons Specialists, who, as we have discussed, are now supplying the weapons for the show: http://thespecialistsltd.com/m4-moe-furniture

::::The site refers to this weapon as an "M4 - MOE furniture", but you can see that the magazine well has the S&W M&P logo. It's safe to assume that the weapon pictured on the site is the exact AR which you actually are seeing on the show. So I think it's mystery solved - the weapon is indeed an M&P-15. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 12:07, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::I wouldn't bet on it, the gun on The Specialists' website has a 16" barrel whereas the one in the show has a 14" one (which they list as a 14.5" making it even more confusing). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:39, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

==M4A1==

[[File:BurnS6E02 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Michael's CIA trainer Tom Card ([[John C. McGinley]]) readies an M4A1 with an EOTech sight outside Kemp's house in "Mixed Messages" (S06E02).]]
This is clearly not an M4A1, as it only has a two-position fire selector, Safe and Fire. Judging by the barrel length on some of the rifles listed under M4A1, I think that they might actually be Colt LE Carbines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:51, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

:It has a 14.5" barrel so I think it should be classified as an M4. It is hard to tell from some of the camera angles, but I think all of the weapons have 14.5" barrels other than the first two pictures (and possibly the one for "Split Decision") which have 16" barrels making them LE6920 Colt Law Enforcement Carbines. In terms of film/TV weapos you really cannot judge them by the lower receiver, as the majority of weapons will be civilian semi auto weapons that have either had the lower replaced with a different full auto one or have had the sear swapped out to convert them to auto. In this case as the lower only has the semi markings, that would probably make it (assuming it is a colt gun) an LE6921, also called the M4LE Carbine. As it is impossible to tell these LE M4s from military M4s without seeing the selector markings (and most of the time they will be depicted as full auto guns), I think these should be listed as M4s. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:26, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

== Jesse's SIG ==

I'm not convinced that this is a P226, look at the lack of double stack bulges in this picture-
[[File:BurnS6E04 21.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jesse with the pistol in question.]]
But I've checked it out before and I came to the conclusion that it was a P226, but then I saw that picture...other thoughts?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:58, 11 August 2012 (CDT)
:From the first screenshot it looks like it could be a .45, my guess would be a newer P220:[[File:SigP220RSilver.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG-Sauer P220ST - .45 ACP]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:26, 11 August 2012 (CDT)

::Yeah, I think you're right, it is a P220. Although what's weird is that when this gun first appeared in Season 5, it was a P226:

::[[File:BurnS5E13 102.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jesse with his P226 in "Damned If You Do" (S5E13).]]

::Here, you can see the double-stack bulges on the frame if you look carefully, IDing it as a 226. I guess I would have figured that the armorer would have used the same gun both seasons, but maybe the 226 wasn't available when they started filming this season. Also, ISS has had rail-frame P220STs in inventory for a while now (they first started showing up on TV as far back as Season 2 of ''[[NCIS - Season 2|NCIS]]''). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 11:08, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
:::Yep, the one in this picture is definitely a 226. But that was in Season 5. I'm thinking that maybe the show switched armorers this season (or the same armorer changed his inventory), because there are some subtle differences in the guns this season. Such as Mike's P30 now has a shaved hammer and the P226 became a P220, and I bet there are some others we haven't found yet. I'm pretty sure the Magpul furniture on the M4's is new, as well as the P556 hybrid thing. As the season continues, there might be some other new stuff.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:05, 12 August 2012 (CDT)

::::OK, I did some research, and it turns out you're correct. For the past five seasons, the show got its weapons from Independent Studio Services (ISS) in California, and a guy named Andrew Wert was the main armorer. As of Season 6, the show's guns are rented from Weapons Specialists, Ltd. (now just The Specialists) in New York, and Ryan Washburn is the new weapons masters. I'm guessing that this explains the changes in weapons that you have pointed out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:19, 12 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::Alright, that's interesting. I browsed through their website and found a stainless P220 (no stainless P226), a MOE M4, and a "two tone" SG 552 (the P556 hybrid), so this is definitely the armorer. I didn't see the P30 or Kahr T9, but I'm sure their website isn't perfectly up to date.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:36, 12 August 2012 (CDT)

::::::They also have the "Less Lethal" Mossberg 500 fitted with the orange furniture and what they call the Remington 870 Magnum which is identified as a Remington 870 MCS on this page. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 01:00, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::::What's also funny is that the pic of the AKS-74U with RIS that appears on the page was also taken from The Specialists' web site, which means that the gun in the picture is probably the exact same one which appears on the show. (Also pretty sure that this AKSU was used in ''[[Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol]]''. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:26, 18 August 2012 (CDT)

== Kahr in Episode 8 ==

I have no idea what kind of Kahr this is, but it's definitely way too big for a K9.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:01, 11 August 2012 (CDT)
[[File:BurnS6E08 06.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Mike with the unknown Kahr.]]

:It is it's "tactical" brother with a 4" barrel and longer grip, the T9: [[File:Kahr T9.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Kahr T9 - 9x19mm]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:23, 11 August 2012 (CDT)

== Taser ==
I changed the Taser to an X3 based on The Specilists LTD, who supplied the weapons for the show, having an X3 exactly like the one in the show in their inventory:[[http://thespecialistsltd.com/taser-x3]] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 01:31, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:I also think it's an X3, but don't start id'ing guns based on what they have listed on their inventory. Sure, it can help with unknowns, but who says that their website is accurate or up to date?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 02:20, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::Well, I had already thought it was an X3, I was just using that as a backup to support the change. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 02:28, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:::Yeah, that wasn't necessarily directed at you, but I could see some people changing things because they "aren't listed on the website" and I wanted to go ahead and mention that that is not a good idea.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:53, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::::Oh ok, yeah I have never done it before, just saw it on their site so I figured it was that taser. Yeah, I agree that the site is probably not completely accurate, because I doubt the company only has about 20 pistols because that's around the amount on their site. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:10, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== AR-pattern sniper rifle ==
[[File:BurnS6E10 08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In "Desperate Times" (S6E10), what is identified as an [[SR-25|M110]] sniper rifle is one of the weapons that the CIA provides for Michael and the time. ]]
[[File:BurnS6E10 10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In "Desperate Times" (S6E10), closeup of the rifle.]]
[[File:BurnS6E10 28.jpg|thumb|none|600px|in "Desperate Times" (S6E10).]]

I don't know what that is, but it's not an M110. The rail forearms are both wrong (the one in the first two pics looks ''similar'' to that on the PWS Diablo), the lower receiver lacks a bolt catch on the right side, and, most telling, the upper receiver has a combined brass deflector/forward assist assembly. I'm thinking a Vltor of some kind, but I don't recognize it as any specific rifle model. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:48, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

:Is Tyler Gray's weapon [http://www.snipercentral.com/dpmssass.phtml one of these]? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 19:21, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

== What are these? ♥o♥ ==
Sniper rifles used in "Ends & Means" (S6E12). Once someone helps me ID them I can crop out the black bars and add them. They are HD and sans network logo.--[[User:Sergei Titov|Сергей Титов, Sergei Titov]] ([[User talk:Sergei Titov|talk]]) 02:04, 18 November 2012 (EST)

Never mind, search indexed bullpup and looked through results till I found it. Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon Scout.--[[User:Sergei Titov|Сергей Титов, Sergei Titov]] ([[User talk:Sergei Titov|talk]]) 02:04, 18 November 2012 (EST)
[[File:QuickTimePlayer 2012-11-09 10-44-55-08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:QuickTimePlayer 2012-11-09 10-44-56-06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:QuickTimePlayer 2012-11-09 10-44-57-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Unless there are any editors for BN s6 anymore, I'm going to proceed with uploading my screencaps. Merci ;)--[[User:Sergei Titov|Сергей Титов, Sergei Titov]] ([[User talk:Sergei Titov|talk]]) 02:04, 18 November 2012 (EST)
:Feel free, but remember to crop out the black bars at the top and bottom of the screenshots. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:30, 18 November 2012 (EST)

== Was that a S&W M&P? ==

I noticed that in the episode "Ends and Means" when Michael is in the room with Card, that there appears to be some something on the slide of his handgun. It actually looks like the warning sticker that comes on M&Ps. I can't take a screenshot but can anyone else confirm or deny whether it is indeed a M&P?

Supernatural - Season 3

2013-05-15T07:00:55Z

Bristow8411: /* Remington 870 Slug Gun */

{{Infobox TV|{{PAGENAME}}
|name= Supernatural - Season 3
|picture = Supernatural Season 3 BRCover 2.jpg
|country = [[File:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|channel = The CW
|genre = Thriller Horror
|creator = Eric Kripke
|dates = 2007 - 2008
|episodes = 16
|character1=Sam Winchester
|actor1=[[Jared Padalecki]]
|character2=Dean Winchester
|actor2=[[Jensen Ackles]]
}}
{{TV Title Season|3|Supernatural}}

=Pistols=
==Colt M1911A1==
Dean ([[Jensen Ackles]]) uses a custom M1911A1 with an engraved slide and pearl grips as his main weapon throughout the series.
[[File:ColtMkIVSilver DeNiro Machete.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Custom engraved nickel plated Colt MKIV Series 80 with pearl grips - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Supernatural 301 2012-12-11-23h22m22s71.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean searching a property with his Colt at the ready in "The Magnificent Seven" (S03E01).]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h22m04s204.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The custom M1911A1 laying on the floor after it is dropped in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h23m06s61.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Wayne ([[Christian Tessier]]) with Dean's pistol in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).]]
[[File:Supernatural 305 2012-12-12-13h11m54s239.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean with his Colt in "Bedtime Stories" (S03E05).]]
[[File:Supernatural 306 2012-12-12-15h39m31s219.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The M1911A1 can be seen on the table in "Red Sky at Morning" (S03E06) when Bela arrives.]]
[[File:Supernatural 309 02.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The brothers with their pistols in "Malleus Maleficarum" (S03E09).]]
[[File:Supernatural 311 04.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean admiring his M1911A1 in "Mystery Spot" (S03E11).]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 004.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A shot of the Colt showing the slide engravings in "Jus In Bello" (S03E12).]]
[[File:Supernatural 315 12.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean using his pistol to threaten Bela in "Time Is on My Side" (S03E15).]]
[[File:Supernatural 316 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A shot from "No Rest for the Wicked" (S03E16) showing the M1911A1, the Taurus PT92AFS and the handguard from the sawn off shotgun, the three most commonly seen firearms in the series.]]

==Taurus PT92AFS==
Sam ([[Jared Padalecki]]) uses a [[Taurus PT92AFS]] with pearl grips as his main weapon throughout the series.
[[Image:TaurusPt92nickelPearl.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Nickel Taurus PT92 with Pearl Grips - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 301 2012-12-11-23h20m09s16.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam and Dean preparing to enter a room with their pistols at the ready in " The Magnificent Seven" (S03E01).]]
[[File:Supernatural 301 2012-12-11-23h20m35s24.jpg|thumb|600px|none|However, all they find is a family of rotting corpses.]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-13h11m37s39.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A side on view of the Taurus in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03) showing the pearl grips.]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 12-01h21m41s200.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The Taurus is knocked out of Sam's hand by a lucky shot.]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-15h38m03s82.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam drawing his pistol when Bela arrives in "Fresh Blood" (S03E07).]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-19h12m58s0.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The brothers with their pistols at the ready in "Fresh Blood" (S03E07).]]
[[File:Supernatural 308 2012-12-14-15h11m53s131.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam holding his pistol on what turns out to be a Santa watching pornography in "A Very Supernatural Christmas" (S03E08).]]
[[File:Supernatural 309 04.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam with his pistol at the ready whilst searching for witches in "Malleus Maleficarum" (S03E09).]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 007.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam searching Bela's hotel room in "Jus In Bello" (S03E12).]]

==Beretta 92FS Inox==
During "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03) the Taurus PT92AFS briefly changes to a [[Beretta 92FS Inox]] with the grips painted white. This is likely a replica or rubber gun, as the weapon is used for a stunt.
[[File:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Beretta 92FS Inox - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h23m11s109.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grossman ([[Hrothgar Mathews]]) with the Berretta.]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h24m04s134.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam ([[Jared Padalecki]]) catches the Beretta.]]

==Desert Eagle Mark VII==
Bela Talbot ([[Lauren Cohan]]) carries a nickel plated [[Desert Eagle Mark VII]] when she confronts Dean in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:DesertEagleMarkVIInickel.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Desert Eagle MK VII with nickel finish - .44 Magnum]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h59m43s10.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Bela confronting Dean with her Desert Eagle]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-02h00m15s75.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A closer view of the pistol. Although the pistol is in shadow and the safety is not seen to confirm the exact model, it can be presumed that it is a Mark VII as seen in other seasons.]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-02h01m51s12.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Bela accidentally catches a cursed rabbit's foot. Just visible in this shot is the lack of a rail on the top of the barrel.]]

==Glock 17==
A 3rd generation [[Glock 17]] fitted with a weapons light is briefly seen in the mobile home belonging to Kubrick ([[Michael Massee]]) in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Glock 17, 3rd generation - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h47m44s91.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Glock is visible when Kubrick reaches for a Bowie knife.]]
2nd generation [[Glock 17]]s are used by FBI agents Victor Henriksen ([[Charles Malik Whitfield]]) and Carl Reidy ([[Kurt Evans]]) in "Jus In Bello" (S03E12).
[[File:Glock17EarlyModel.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Glock 17, 2nd generation - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 051.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Agent Carl Reidy holding his pistol on the brothers.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 072.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Agent Victor Henriksen gesticulating with his Glock.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 085a.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean ([[Jensen Ackles]]) aiming Agent Henriksen's Glock after he takes it from him.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 088.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Agent Henriksen looking at his Glock after he shoots an innocent man whilst possessed.]]

==COP 357 Derringer==
A [[COP 357 Derringer]] can briefly be seen in the Kubrick's weapon collection in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:N-copb.jpg|thumb|300px|none|COP 357 Derringer - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h49m35s223.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The COP 357 is visible in the centre of the top of the weapons rack.]]

==Walther PPK/S==
A [[Walther PPK/S]] can briefly be seen in the Kubrick's weapon collection in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03). The Walther PPK/S is also the standard pistol used by Bela Talbot ([[Lauren Cohan]]).
[[File:WaltherPPKSPachmayr.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Walther PPK/S, stainless steel with Pachmayr grips - .380 ACP]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h49m35s223.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The PPK/S is visible in the top left of the weapons rack in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h47m05s119a.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Bela removing her PPK/S from a wine chiller in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h47m44s249.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Bela aiming her PPK/S at Dean.]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h51m29s177.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Bela and Dean in a Mexican standoff.]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-17h19m21s238.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Gordon Walker ([[Sterling K. Brown]]) with Bela's PPK/S in "Fresh Blood" (S03E07). Visible in this shot is the gold log of the Pachmayr grips.]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-17h19m47s132.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Gordon drops the magazine out of the pistol. Note that this is a 7 round magazine, meaning that this pistol is either a PPK in .32 ACP or a PPK/S in .380 ACP.]]
[[File:Supernatural 315 39.jpg|thumb|600px|none|In "Time Is on My Side" (S03E15) Bela has a suppressor fitted to her PPK/S.]]
[[File:Supernatural 315 44.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Bela aiming her suppressed PPK/S.]]

==AMT Automag III==
An [[AMT Automag III]] can briefly be seen in the Kubrick's weapon collection in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:AMTAutoMagIII.jpg|thumb|300px|none|AMT Automag III - .30 Carbine]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h49m35s223.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Automag is visible on the right of the weapons rack. Note the lack of a frame safty differentiating this pistol from other longslide 1911 variants.]]

==Ruger P89==
A [[Ruger P89]] can briefly be seen in the Kubrick's weapon collection in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:P85hh.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Ruger P89 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h49m35s223.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Ruger P89 is the centre of the three pistols in the middle of the weapons rack.]]

==Colt Defender==
A [[Colt Defender]] can briefly be seen in the Kubrick's weapon collection in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:ColtDefenderM1911.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Colt Defender - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h49m35s223.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Colt Defender is the bottom of the three pistols in the middle of the weapons rack.]]

==Smith & Wesson 5906==
An early model [[Smith & Wesson 5906]] is used by a bar patron ([[Matthew Harrison]]) to shoot a man in "Sin City" (S03E04).
[[File:S&WModel5906 2ndVer1stPattern.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Smith & Wesson 5906, early model with adjustable sights - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-11h56m34s212.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The man approaches the pool table with his pistol drawn. Note the early model hooked trigger guard.]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-11h56m44s174.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Th man aiming his S&W 5906. Note that it has the large adjustable rear sight.]]

==Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Mod 0==
Gordon Walker ([[Sterling K. Brown]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Mod 0]] in "Fresh Blood" (S03E07).
[[File:Mk23.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Mod 0 - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-17h20m20s24.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Gordon drawing his Mk 23]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-17h21m14s91.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Mark 23 acting as a motivational tool.]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-17h39m11s90.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Gordon reloading his pistol after a brief firefight]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-17h40m20s35.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A clear view of the side of the pistol showing the Mark 23's threaded barrel and raised sights.]]

==Wildey Hunter==
A [[Wildey Hunter]] is seen in the trunk of the Impala during the alternate future portrayed in "Mystery Spot" (S03E11). This weapons compartment was originally seen in the back of John Winchester's 1983 GMC Sierra in [[Supernatural - Season 1|Season 1]].
[[File:Wildey 8 inch.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Wildey Hunter, 8" barrel - .475 Wildey Magnum]]
[[File:Supernatural 311 34.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Wildey Hunter is in the top right corner of the upper section of the weapons compartment.]]

==Vektor CP1==
A [[Vektor CP1]] is seen in the trunk of the Impala during the alternate future portrayed in "Mystery Spot" (S03E11). This weapons compartment was originally seen in the back of John Winchester's 1983 GMC Sierra in [[Supernatural - Season 1|Season 1]].
[[File:VektorCP1Pistol.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Vektor CP1 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 311 34.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Vektor CP1 is in upper section of the weapons compartment, just below and to the left of the crucifix.]]

==Colt Mustang Plus II==
A [[Colt Mustang Plus II]] is seen in the trunk of the Impala during the alternate future portrayed in "Mystery Spot" (S03E11). This weapons compartment was originally seen in the back of John Winchester's 1983 GMC Sierra in [[Supernatural - Season 1|Season 1]].
[[File:Colt Mustang Plus II.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Colt Mustang Plus II - .380 ACP]]
[[File:Supernatural 311 34.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Mustang is at the bottom of the upper section of the weapons compartment.]]

==Beretta 92FS==
Various members of the Sheriff's Department in "Jus In Bello" (S03E12) use [[Beretta 92FS]] pistols.
[[File:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 018.jpg|thumb|600px|none|One of the Deputies that arrests Sam and Dean with his pistol drawn.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 035.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sheriff Melvin Dodd ([[Stoney Westmoreland]]) with his Beretta.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 052.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Deputy Phil Amici ([[Tyler McClendon]]) also uses a Beretta 92FS. In the foreground is Sheriff Dodd's pistol.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 053.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sheriff Dodd aiming his Beretta at the brothers through the bars of their cell.]]

==SIG-Sauer P228==
FBI Deputy Director Steven Groves ([[Peter DeLuise]]) carries a suppressed [[SIG-Sauer P228]] in "Jus In Bello" (S03E12).
[[File:Sig-Sauer-P228.jpg|thumb|300px|none|SIG-Sauer P228 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 024.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Deputy Director Groves aiming his pistol through the bars of the brothers' cell.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 037.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam ([[Jared Padalecki]]) holding the P228 by its suppressor as he surrenders it.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 040.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A clear shot of the P228 laying on the ground showing the rounded trigger guard and double stack frame step.]]

==Taurus PT911==
Bela Talbot ([[Lauren Cohan]]) carries a concealed [[Taurus PT911]] "Time Is on My Side" (S03E15).
[[File:Taurus911.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Taurus PT911, stainless steel finish - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 315 14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean ([[Jensen Ackles]]) taking the Taurus from Bela after he searches her.]]

=Revolvers=
=="The Colt" (Colt Paterson 1836 cartridge conversion)==
"Back in 1835, when Halley's Comet was overhead, same night those men died at the Alamo, they say Samuel Colt made a gun. A special gun. He made it for a hunter. A man like us, only on horseback. Story goes, he made thirteen bullets. This hunter used the gun a half dozen times before he disappeared, the gun along with him... Somehow Daniel got his hands on it. They say... they say this gun can kill anything."

The pistol which is simply referred to as "The Colt" is a modified [[Colt Paterson 1836]], first seen in [[Supernatural - Season 1|Season 1]]. The actual gun appears to be built from a Pietta "Paterson Extra Deluxe" based on the engravings and silver inlay markings. The pistol is further modified with a cartridge conversion, by having a pentagram carved into each grip plate, and the barrel is engraved with "non timebo mala" which translates to "I will fear no evil" (a reference to Psalm 23).
[[File:PIETTA PATERSON EXTRA DELUXE.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Pietta "Paterson Extra Deluxe" - .36 caliber]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-11h48m10s166.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A view of the disassembled Colt through a magnifying glass showing the frame engravings in "Sin City" (S03E04).]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-12h00m00s67.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Bobby Singer ([[Jim Beaver]]) test firing "The Colt".]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-12h00m50s99.jpg|thumb|600px|none|In order to adjust the point of aim Bobby files away a portion of the hammer, which acts as the rear sight on early revolvers such as this.]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-12h31m34s113.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean picking up "The Colt" in "Sin City" (S03E04).]]
[[File:Supernatural 305 2012-12-12-14h59m23s161.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam ([[Jared Padalecki]]) takes "The Colt" when he confrotns the crossroads demon in "Bedtime Stories" (S03E05).]]
[[File:Supernatural 305 2012-12-12-15h11m40s77.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A side view of "The Colt" showing the engravings and silver inlay.]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-19h33m20s176.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean ([[Jensen Ackles]]) kills a vampire with "The Colt" in "Fresh Blood" (S03E07).]]
[[File:Supernatural 309 14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean holding "The Colt" in "Malleus Maleficarum" (S03E09).]]
[[File:Supernatural 309 19.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Later in the episode Sam uses the Colt when he confronts a coven of witches.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 012.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Bela Talbot ([[Lauren Cohan]]) takes "The Colt" in "Jus In Bello" (S03E12).]]

==Colt Single Action Army==
Bobby Singer ([[Jim Beaver]]) carries a [[Colt Single Action Army]] with a "Cavalry" length barrel in "The Magnificent Seven" (S03E01).
[[File:ColtSAALongBarrel.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Colt Single Action Army "Cavalry" - .45 Long Colt]]
[[File:Supernatural 301 2012-12-11-23h18m31s41.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Bobby draws his revolver whilst Dean picks the lock on the front door.]]
[[File:Supernatural 301 2012-12-11-23h23m35s29.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A shot from Dean's POV as he looks up from the floor after being knocked down.]]
[[File:Supernatural 301 2012-12-11-23h47m22s198.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Bobby stands ready outside a bar with his revolver drawn.]]

==Colt Python==
Kubrick ([[Michael Massee]]) carries a nickel plated [[Colt Python]] with a 4" barrel in several episodes.
[[File:Pistoljunkiepythonnickel4inleft.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Colt Python, nickel plated with a 4" barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h56m41s120.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Kubrick threatening Sam with his Colt in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03)]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h58m17s174.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean disables Kubricks revolver with a pen thanks to rabbit's foot induced luck. Note that the length of barrel ahead of the front vent in the rib appears too long, indicating that this is possibly a replica of a lookalike pistol made by another company.]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-01h58m45s122.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Kubrick pulling the pen from the muzzle of his revolver.]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-17h39m18s92.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Kubrick uses the Colt Python again in "Fresh Blood" (S03E07) whilst pursuing the Winchester brothers.]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-17h40m03s77.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Kubrick firing his revolver.]]
[[File:Supernatural 307 2012-12-12-19h19m40s36.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Colt Python can be seen laying on a table along with its ammunition when Kubrick reaches for a Bowie knife.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 586==
A [[Smith & Wesson Model 586]] with a 6" barrel can be seen in the storage locker belonging to John Winchester in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:S&W586-6.jpg|thub|300px|none|thumb|Smith & Wesson Model 586, 6 inch barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h55m18s184.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Model 586 is in the botom right corner of the weapons rack.]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h55m28s115.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A closer view showing the frame of the revolver.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 686==
Andy Johnson ([[Richard Keats]]) uses a [[Smith & Wesson Model 686]] with a 4" barrel to commit suicide in "Sin City" (S03E04).
[[File:S&WModel686.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Smith & Wesson Model 686, 4 inch barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-11h47m33s235.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Andy holding the revolver against his chin.]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-11h47m48s122.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A closer shot of the revolver showing that it has adjustable rear sights.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 27==
Trotter ([[Don S. Davis]]) pulls a [[Smith & Wesson Model 27]] with a 4 inch barrel on Sam ([[Jared Padalecki]]) in "Sin City" (S03E04).
[[File:S&WHP1.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Smith & Wesson Model 27, 4 inch barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-12h04m54s154.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Trotter takes Sam unawares with his revolver.]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-12h05m12s167.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Trotter holding the revolver against Sam's neck.]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-12h06m25s95.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam tuns the tables on Trotter and takes his revolver. Visible in this shot is the tapered barrel indicating that this is the .357 Model 27 as opposed to the .44 Model 29.]]
[[File:Supernatural 304 2012-12-12-12h07m05s13.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam sheepishly unloading the revolver before returning it after it becomes apparent that Trotter is not a demon.]]

==Ruger Speed Six==
The young Dean Winchester ([[Ridge Canipe]]) keeps a [[Ruger Speed Six]] under his pillow in "A Very Supernatural Christmas" (S03E08). A Ruger Speed Six is also used by Ben Waters ([[John Shaw]]) in "Long-Distance Call" (S03E14).
[[File:Ruger Speed 6.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Ruger Speed Six, blued finish and 2.75 inch barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Supernatural 308 2012-12-14-15h32m42s120.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Young Dean Winchester ([[Ridge Canipe]]) lifts up his pillow to reveal the Speed Six in "A Very Supernatural Christmas" (S03E08). Not much detail is visible due to the lighting, but the design of the grip can be made out which matches the Speed Six.]]
[[File:Supernatural 314 02.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Ben Waters ([[John Shaw]]) opening his desk draw in "Long-Distance Call" (S03E14).]]
[[File:Supernatural 314 11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Ben removes the Speed six before holding it to his head.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 36==
Cal ([[Kasey Kieler]]) uses a [[Smith & Wesson Model 36]] in "Mystery Spot" (S03E11).
[[File:S&W 36.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Smith & Wesson Model 36 - .38 Special]]
[[File:Supernatural 311 22.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Cal aiming his revolver at Dean.]]

=Shotguns=
==Side by Side Sawed Off Shotgun==
[[12_Gauge_Double_Barreled_Shotgun#Short_barreled_Side_by_Side_Shotgun_.28Sawed_Off.29|Side by Side Sawed Off Shotguns]] are one of the most common weapons on the show, normally being used by the brothers whenever they are hunting a ghost. They are said to be loaded with rock salt shells due to the fact that spirits are repelled by salt.
[[Image:SBS-Shotgun ManOnFire.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Sawn off Zabala shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h51m47s217.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A sawed off shotgun is part of a booby trap left in the storage locker belonging to John Winchester in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).]]
[[File:Supernatural 306 2012-12-12-15h32m35s164.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean ([[Jensen Ackles]]) removes his shotgun from the trunk for a spot of ghost hunting in "Red Sky at Morning" (S03E06).]]
[[File:Supernatural 309 26.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Ruby ([[Katie Cassidy]]) tossing Dean his shotgun in "Malleus Maleficarum" (S03E09).]]
[[File:Supernatural 309 29.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean catches the shotgun.]]
[[File:Supernatural 310 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The "Evil Dean" in Dean's dream in "Dream a Little Dream of Me" gesturing with a sawed of shotgun.]]
[[File:Supernatural 311 25.jpg|thumb|600px|none|During a compilation scene during the alternate future depicted in "Mystery Spot" (S03E11) Sam ([[Jared Padalecki]]) can briefl be seen wielding a sawed off shotgun.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 145.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean firing the shotgun one handed in "Jus In Bello" (S03E09).]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 163.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A close up of a pair of rock salt cartridges being loaded.]]
[[File:Supernatural 313 13.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A shot of the broken shotgun through the camera's POV in the "Ghostfacers" (S03E13).]]

==Ithaca 37 (Sawed Off)==
A sawn off [[Ithaca 37]] is used by the brothers on several occasions, most commonly when hunting ghosts loaded with rock salt shells. It is also commonly used as a prop to hold open the lid of the weapons compartment in the trunk of the Impala.
[[Image:Ithaca_m37sawedoff.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Sawn Off Ithaca 37 - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Supernatural 301 2012-12-11-23h44m53s6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean ([[Jensen Ackles]]) reassembling the Ithaca in "The Magnificent Seven" (S03E01).]]
[[File:Supernatural 306 vlcsnap-2012-12-12-15h32m25s38.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam ([[Jared Padalecki]]) loading white rock salt shells into his Ithaca in "Red Sky at Morning" (S03E06).]]
[[File:Supernatural 311 38.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam taking the Ithaca from the trunk of the Impala during the alternate future depicted in "Mystery Spot" (S03E11).]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 108.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Ithaca is used as a prop for the lid of the Impala's weapon compartment in "Jus In Bello" (S03E09).]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 117.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean briefly carries the Ithaca during the siege in "Jus In Bello" (S03E09) before handing it off to Sam.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 131.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam holding the Ithaca showing its lack of an ejection port on the right side of the receiver.]]
[[File:Supernatural 316 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sam loading the Ithaca before the brothers confront Lilith in "No Rest for the Wicked" (S03E16).]]

==Remington 870==
Isaac ([[Peter Macon]]) carries a [[Remington 870]] with wood furniture in "The Magnificent Seven" (S03E01).
[[File:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Remington 870 - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Supernatural 301 2012-12-11-23h22m48s36.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean being hit in the face with the butt of Isaac's shotgun.]]
[[File:Supernatural 301 2012-12-11-23h23m06s253.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Isaac aiming hit shotgun at a floored Dean.]]
[[File:Supernatural 301 23h23m43s107.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A shot of the underside of Isaac's shotgun as he greets Bobby.]]

==Franchi PA3==
A [[Franchi PA3]] can be seen in Kubrick's mobile home in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03). Only the grip is visible, but this matches the grip found on [[Franchi]] shotguns. Also the very bottom of the forward grip is visible, indicating this is a PA3 as opposed to a longer variant such as the [[PA8]] or [[SPAS-12]].
[[File:Franchimodpa3.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Franchi PA3 - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h47m44s91.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The only parts of the shotgun which are visible are the pistol grip and the very bottom of the front grip.]]

==Winchester Model 1912==
A [[Winchester Model 1912]] can be seen in the storage locker belonging to John Winchester in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:Winchester Model 1912.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Winchester Model 1912 - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h55m18s184.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Winchester Model 1912 is visible in the centre of the weapon rack above the Kukri (the large curved knife).]]

==Remington Model 870 (Sawed Off)==
Dean finds a sawed off [[Remington Model 870]] in the storage locker belonging to their father in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03). Dean says it was the first sawed off he ever made, and takes it with him when they leave.
[[File:SawnoffShotgun2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with sawed off barrel and stock - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h53m37s32.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean admiring his handiwork.]]

==Over and Under Shotgun==
The proprietor of the "Broward County Mystery Spot" ([[Andrew McIlroy]]) uses an [[Over and Under Shotgun]] in "Mystery Spot" (S03E11).
[[File:Supernatural 311 13.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A side view of the shotgun as it is aimed at Sam.]]
[[File:Supernatural 311 17.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The man aiming the shotgun at Dean.]]

==Remington 870 Slug Gun==
Various members of the Sheriff's Department in "Jus In Bello" (S03E12) use [[Remington 870 Slug Gun]]s.
[[File:Remington870SlugGun.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Remington 870 Slug Gun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 021.jpg|thumb|600px|none|One of the Deputies that arrests Sam and Dean with his shotgun. Note the rear rifle sight indicating that this is a slug gun.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 065.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sheriff Melvin Dodd ([[Stoney Westmoreland]]) loading his shotgun.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 082.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Deputy Phil Amici ([[Tyler McClendon]]) holding his shotgun.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 123.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean ([[Jensen Ackles]]) loading rock salt shells into one of the shotguns.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 156.jpg|thumb|600px|none|FBI agent Victor Henriksen ([[Charles Malik Whitfield]]) carries one of these shotguns whilst defending the Sheriff's station. The writing visible on the side says "Remington Wingmaster" with Wingmaster being one of the available grades of shotguns from Remington.]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 169.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Deputy Amici covers Nancy Fitzgerald ([[Aimee Garcia]]) with his Remington 870 Slug Gun while she lays salt at the windows. The Slug Gun's front and rear rifle sights are visible in this shot.]]

==Side by Side Shotgun==
An off-duty police officer ([[Eric Breker]]) uses a full length [[Side by Side Shotgun]] when he confronts Dean in "Long-Distance Call" (S03E14).
[[File:RemingtonSPR210.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Remington SPR210 Shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Supernatural 314 18.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The off-duty police officer fires his shotgun at Dean as he enters the room]]
[[File:Supernatural 314 22.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A view of the empty chambers of the broken shotgun.]]
[[File:Supernatural 314 30.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Dean ([[Jensen Ackles]]) grabs the shotgun off of the floor during the struggle.]]

=Submachine Guns=
==Micro Uzi==
A [[Micro Uzi]] can briefly be seen in the Kubrick's weapon collection in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:MicroUziPistolStock.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Micro Uzi - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h49m20s214.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Micro Uzi is visible in the bottom right of the gun rack.]]

==MAC-11==
A [[MAC-11]] can briefly be seen in the Kubrick's weapon collection in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:Mac m11 9k.jpg|thumb|350px|none|MAC-11 - .380 ACP]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h49m35s223.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The MAC-11 is visible towards the top of the gun rack beneath the two silver pistols.]]

=Rifles=
==Browning BLR 81==
A [[Browning BLR 81]] is visible in the storage locker belonging to John Winchester in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03). A BLR 81 is also briefly seen being carried by FBI agent Victor Henriksen ([[Charles Malik Whitfield]]) whilst preparing for the demon assault in "Jus In Bello" (S03E12), although it is never used.
[[File:BLR81.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Early production Model of the Browning BLR Rifle - .308 Winchester]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h55m48s63.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The BLR 81 is visible in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03), and is the top rifle on the rack. Note that the magazine is removed]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 092.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Agent Henriksen is carrying the BLR 81 in his right hand in this shot from "Jus In Bello" (S03E12).]]

==Mauser 98 Sporter==
Kubrick ([[Michael Massee]]) can be seen cleaning and assembling a [[Mauser 98 Sporter]] with scope mounts in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03)
[[File:Mauser 98 sporter scope.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Mauser 98 Sporter - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h48m54s24.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Hubrick looking down the barrel of the Mauser after he has reassembled it.]]

==Knight's Armament Revolver Rifle==
A [[Knight's Armament Revolver Rifle]] is seen in the trunk of the Impala during the alternate future portrayed in "Mystery Spot" (S03E11). This weapons compartment was originally seen in the back of John Winchester's 1983 GMC Sierra in [[Supernatural - Season 1|Season 1]].
[[Image:RevolverRifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Knight's Armament Revolver Rifle - .30 Caliber]]
[[File:Supernatural 311 34.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The KAC Revolver Rifle is at the top of the bottom portion of the weapons case.]]

==Unidentified Rifle==
An unidentified lever action rifle is visible among the weapons that are gathered by the Sheriff's Department whilst preparing for the demon assault in "Jus In Bello" (S03E12).
[[File:Supernatural 312 095.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

=Other Weapons=
==M84 Stun Grenade==
An [[M84 stun grenade]] can be seen in the storage locker belonging to John Winchester in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:M84stun.jpg|thumb|200px|none|M84 Stun Grenade]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h55m18s184.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The M84 is just visible on the far right of this frame.]]

==Mk 2 Hand Grenade==
An [[Mk 2 hand grenade]] can be seen in the storage locker belonging to John Winchester in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:MK2 grenade DoD.jpg|thumb|200px|none|Mk 2 Hand Grenade]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h55m28s115.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Mk 2 is the right grenade of the three grenades in this shot.]]

==M26 Hand Grenade==
An [[M26 hand grenade]] can be seen in the storage locker belonging to John Winchester in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:200px-M-67handgrenade.jpg|thumb|200px|none|M26 Hand Grenade]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h55m28s115.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Mk 2 is the left grenade of the three grenades in this shot.]]

==F-1 Hand Grenade==
An [[F-1 hand grenade]] can be seen in the storage locker belonging to John Winchester in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:Deactivated f1.jpg|thumb|200px|none|F-1 Hand Grenade]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h55m28s115.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The F-1 is the centre grenade of the three grenades in this shot.]]

==M18A1 Claymore==
An [[M18A1 Claymore]] can be seen in the storage locker belonging to John Winchester in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03).
[[File:M18a1 07.jpg|thumb|300px|none|M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h55m48s63.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Claymore is visible in the bottom right of this shot.]]

==Krieghoff Model L==
A [[Krieghoff Model L]] flare pistol is seen in the trunk of the Impala during the alternate future portrayed in "Mystery Spot" (S03E11). This weapons compartment was originally seen in the back of John Winchester's 1983 GMC Sierra in [[Supernatural - Season 1|Season 1]].
[[File:LW flare.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Krieghoof Model L - 27mm flares]]
[[File:Supernatural 311 34.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Krieghoff is visible on the far right of the bottom section of the weapons compartment.]]

==DefTech 37mm launcher==
A [[DefTech 37mm launcher]] is seen in the trunk of the Impala, but is never used.
[[File:Federallabs37.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Defense Technologies/Federal Laboratories launcher with folding stock - 37mm]]
[[File:Supernatural 312 104.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The DefTech lays in a section in the bottom of the Impala's weapons compartment.]]

=Trivia=
==Blasting Machine, 10 cap, Type 6901 No.1==
Although not a weapon by itself, a Blasting Machine, 10 cap, Type 6901 No.1 can be seen in the storage locker belonging to John Winchester in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (S03E03). This is an electric detonator manufactured in 1939 by the White Rogers Electric Company which was used by the US Army to detonate various explosive charges and mines.
[[File:Blasting Machine, 10 cap, Type 6901 No.1.jpg|thumb|200px|none|Blasting Machine, 10 cap, Type 6901 No.1]]
[[File:Supernatural 303 2012-12-12-00h55m18s184.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Type 6901 No.1 Blasting Machine is visible in the bottom right of this shot, between the fragmentation and stun grenades.]]
 
[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Thriller]]
[[Category:Horror]]
[[Category:Mystery]]

Talk:Skyfall

2013-02-13T02:41:52Z

Bristow8411: /* PPK palm print scanner */

==Bond's main gun==

I know we can see that Bond has chosen the faithful PPK as his sidearm, but I would love too see a return of the P99. It is the use of it in Bond films that made it a preferred personal sidearm of choice [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

I want to see other Walter guns. There's been quite a few new ones since the last movie that came out. I'd love to see the PPQ in action [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:34, 2 February 2012 (CST)

I'd rather him use a SIG Sauer P226 as a bigger pistol like he did in QoS. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:58, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:Nah, I think he needs a more unique pistol, something to mark that only Bond would use. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:16, 2 February 2012 (CST)

same. maybe the SIG or he pulls a [[Collateral]] with the [[Heckler & Koch USP]]--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Is anyone else puzzled by how old and haggard Daniel Craig looks in that picture? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:41, 2 February 2012 (CST)

I still have never liked the new Bond. All the Bonds before Craig were the classic fictional "spy" with all the charms and awesomeness that all women want him and men want to be him. I know REAL spies don't usually act like the classic Bond fashion with super gadgets and all but that's why we love him, not for the realism but for the fantasy it really is. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:16, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Daniel Craig does look older in this picture. I would rather see the new PPS as his sidearm because it's simply an evolution thing. From PPK to P5 to P99, Bond has usually always used a Walther. To have him go back to the PPK, while is nice to see, is not something that make sense this day in age.

:Actually in the Jeffrey Deaver Bond novel "Carte Blanche" Bond does use the Walther PPS [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 17:35, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Daniel Craig has not aged well in my opinion. In Layer Cake when he was early thirties, he looked quite young. When I saw the promo picture for Skyfall, I couldn't believe it was him for a second. I would have liked Bond to sport a P22 or PK380 in Skyfall, but as is life :( [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

Charon68, that is what I was referring to the book. --[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 17:43, 2 February 2012 (CST)

If bond is former SAS soldier, as suggested in Casino Royale, then he would have used a PPK so is a realistic choice. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:04, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Personally though I had thought the PPK was withdrawn from service after the attempted kidnapping of Princess Margaret in 1974. As cool as the thing looks the cartridge is woefully underpowered and would barely make a scratch with modern body armor. [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 18:08, 2 February 2012 (CST)
***My quote made the LA Times. Good for me. LOL --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 10:47, 3 February 2013 (EST)
:That incident was with the police Royalty Protection branch, and at that point the PPK was carried as a primary weapon. It wasn't a power issue, the gun jammed when the protection officer tried to return fire, and was immediately and totally withdrawn by the police due to this freak occurrence. It is still used (or was still used until relatively recently) by the SAS as an ankle gun during close protection work or for undercover work (such as in Northern Ireland), and I think there is also a hidden pocket specifically for the PPK in the SAS CRW coveralls. Main pistols used by SAS are the P226 and P228. Personally I would like to see bond with a P228, or its successor the P229 SAS. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:30, 2 February 2012 (CST)
::On the Casino Royale website it says that Bond is former SBS. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:59, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:::Personally I always thought a worth successor to the PPK would have been the HK P7. [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 20:19, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:::Bond being ex-UKSF has been canon since at least ''[[Tomorrow Never Dies]]''; Bond can be seen wearing a pair of UKSF Parachute wings on the sleeve of his No.1C uniform, as in [[:File:Usairforce.jpg|This shot]]. Plus he uses a P7 in at least one of the novels. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:34, 3 February 2012 (CST)

I think we're torn on the ideal of a the Bond gun as being something small and still powerful to what is more practical. In a real sense, Bond should always be carrying full size guns or larger guns because of the situation. Why a small gun when his outfit could offer concealment on larger frame weapons and with modern day suppressors, you can't say a small gun suppresses better. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:08, 2 February 2012 (CST)

In the novels written by Raymond Benson, Bond would carry a PPK if he needed concealment with a suppressor and he would keep a P99 in his cars or when he was in a tactical situation where he needed more firepower. That was something that was used in the game Bloodstone and would be a nice medium. --[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 22:07, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Bond is a Naval Commmander, and personally I would like him to use a P228, as it is compact enough for undercover work and has a large enough magazine (13 rounds in 9mm) to see him through a gunfight --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 12:54, 5 February 2012 (CST).

The p228 is not bond 007 style. The thing is that the PPK is the classic bond gun, but with a magazine size of at max 8 rounds, it is not very good choice. He could use one of two pistols: the P226 Navy in .40 S&W (since he is an naval commander) or a usp compact in 9 mil. The usp compact is good for concealment and it offers a larger magazine (13 rounds) compared to the ppk's 8.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 15:28, 5 February 2012 (CST)
:"he P226 Navy in .40 S&W (since he is an naval commander)" Wrong Navy, plus the 226 Navy is (I believe) only chambered in 9mm NATO. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:21, 5 February 2012 (CST)

If anything the PPK is a good backup gun nothing else. I personally wouldn't even consider using a PPK as my primary even if I was using a compact gun just because their is simply better compact guns with better stopping power then the PPK.

Guys, we're missing the point. It doesn't matter what guns are better choices than a PPK. Most guns out there are. Bond may be a former SBS or SAS or whatever, but he NEEDS to carry a Walther. For 50 years, he has carried three different guns, all Walther. I am in huge favor of him carrying both a P99 and a PPK depending on the situation, although I would probably get over it if he replaced the PPK with a PPS. I think a lot of people want to see Bond carry guns that THEY like, but don't really fit Bond's persona. All the guns suggested are combat sidearms, while Bond only needs something to serve for a CCW. If he needs more firepower, there is the P99.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:44, 5 February 2012 (CST)

I totally agree with JazzBlackBelt. The P99 is the best for Bond and the PPK makes for a great backup gun.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 22:25, 5 February 2012 (CST)

If they want to be really faithful, they should give him back the Beretta pocket pistol he carried in the first few novels. But now I'm being overly sarcastic and need to calm down. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:30, 6 February 2012 (CST)

While I agree that there are better choices then a PPK, I wouldn't want to step in front of one in the hands of a professional like Daniel Craig's Bond. The PPK is iconic and identified with Bond as much as the dinner suit and the Aston Martin; it was chosen by Fleming because its name "rolled off the tongue" and for its sleek looks. The producers did a good job in Quantum of Solace mixing up the traditional (PPK) with the more modern (P226). And since I am new to this site, if someone could tell me how to leave a signature, I would appreciate it :)
Thanks Funkychinaman for the signature info!--[[User:SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon|SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon]] 22:58, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

I don't know if you folks have seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuO34MDezzU
It looks like folks have been discussing the gun Bond should carry for 50 years. [[User:APS221|APS221]] 00:47, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

They should follow Jeffery Deaver's advice and choose the gun from the book Carte Blanche, the book that was going to be adapted into this film originally. Shame it's not going to be-the gun's a Walther PPS .40 S&W. It betters the PPK in calibers and capacity (if you either have an extended magazine or choose 9mm instead of .40 calibre.), and matches it exactly on size. Also, I believe Bond should have a larger handgun inside his vehicle and for use on covert operations. The PP9, while Bond has been using it before and it has a good capacity, is outdated and still a 9mm. I believe it should be a full-sized handgun, still a Walther, maybe the P22 .22 LR, as it is quieter suppressed than the 9mm PP9. I'm not sure weather .22 LR is more or less powerful than 9mm though...anyone? As for the Bond gun debating, it's never going to stop completely. If Bond books and films carry on being made for hundreds more years, better and more concealable guns in better calibers with better suppressors will become available, and people like us will always disagree with the choice, unless the people in charge of firearms choosing at the Bond films come across this site and choose what we say, which is unlikely. The PPK, whilst good in it's day, is severly outdated (it's nearly twice as old as the actor holding it!), the caliber is ineffective compared to the .40 S&W at penetration and damage, and the PPS can be suppressed just as effectively with modern suppressor technology, compared to the .380 ACP with WWII suppressor technology, and is the same size exactly-Walther claim so themselves. However, the big cheeses at the Bond office just see the PPK not as ineffective, or underpowered, or old, but as a symbol of Bond. I think we may have to put up with it for many years to come, until either they see some sense or are fired. I'm sure Boothroyd's turning in his grave. Alasdair.

The thing with Bond is that he needs to use a gun with decent size caliber. If I would choose a new gun for Bond, I would choose the Kimber Warrior, which is meant for marksmen like Bond. Glocks are good, but are not suited for Bond. The Walther P99 as of the guns Bond has used is the best one that he has used. --[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 10:31, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

I want to see him with a PPS or something like that. The PPK is nice, but this isn't Ian Flemming's bond anymore. He is a more realistic action hero. A PPS in a IWB holster with a P99 or PPQ in his car. I like Craig as Bond because he is more gritty and honestly, less of a man whore. I have experience with a PPS and I think Bond would too.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 11:25, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm a huge fan of the Walther, and i would love to see him use his P99 again, i got a replica of it myself and it's really good. Especially is a Vega Holster!

In the book "Devil May Care", Bond looses his PPK frequently and is mostly seen using, of all things an [[M1911]]. That would be pretty cool. [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]] 14:55, 8 April 2012 (EST)

While I maintain my opinion that the PPK, properly supplemented at appropriate times like in Quantum, is the only gun for Bond, I am sympathetic to the argument that he should be equipped with a more modern weapon. Therefore, I nominate the new SIG SAUER P224. It is of an appropriate size (unlike the Walther P99), has the proven professional pedigree of the P220/226 line, is of high quality (unlike the poor reputation-dogged Walther), isn’t the everyone’s gun the GLOCK is, and has some style and panache that the PPS, GLOCK, USP, and their polymer look-alikes lack. I would prefer 9mm for an agent operating worldwide, but the P224 is available in .40 and .357 SIG (now that’s a serious caliber). --[[User:SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon|SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon]] 23:01, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

:Of course the big problem with a non-Walther gun is that apparently the franchise has a fairly nice sponsorship deal going with Carl Walther GmbH. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:09, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

If the franchise has a big sponsorship with Walther, then why don't Walther make a gun especially designed for James Bond? It could be tailored to meet his needs (suggestions as to what they might be, please), and then they could release it for sale to the public. They'd make a fortune by selling it to James Bond fans, and serious shooters if it was very good. Q could make a big deal in-film about how good it is, and how Walther have made it especially for him. Good idea? Alasdair.

:Well, because imagine the PR when the gun made specially for James Bond is used to hold up a bank, they'd never hear the end of it, nevermind the kind of "MGM is arming our kids!" nonsense they'd get anyway. That and if you're a gun company exec and someone pitches that idea to you, your first reply would be "why not just have him use something we already make?" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:55, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

The whole debate about whether he should be using a PPK should be treated in the same way as whether it is realistic for Bond to engage in so many scuffles in nice, taper-fit Tom Ford suits and Church leather shoes. The cut is simply unrealistic for someone who wishes to conceal serious firepower. Given his obvious fondness for the Italian cut in his suits, it is fitting that Daniel Craig/James Bond should choose the PPK instead of the P99 he had used in the first movie, but, alas, such weapons remained adequate today for a Walter Mitty who would not see much more action. Since the 1970s, an operator carrying a PPK would simply not be taken seriously by fellow professionals, and would be laughed out of the Special Forces Club. A serious operator would simply rather wear a suit with the horrendous sack-like American cut, than do without a true combat pistol.

A former SBS operator would really be more likely to carry a SiG-Sauer P226. He might sacrifice two rounds to save 0.1 inch of butt length by carrying the P228, but someone who really means to can conceal either under a suit jacket. Even women operators could conceal a Heckler and Koch MP5K under their jacket. So the producer or director really missed a chance here to turn James Bond from being a mere walking advertisement for luxury brands to a more serious character (like back in Casino Royale).

Oh, by the way, using an Olympic Arms K23B is the ultimate mark of un-seriousness in a professional. Someone get that girl a HK 416.
:It's most likely what was avaiable and "unique" to the character in the scene. Personally the barrel would have given it crapped accuracy and shooting a guy brawling with a friendly on a moving train would take some expert marksmen even with a better rifle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:17, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

:One word for you - TRADITION. Bond's always used a PPK (except in the first few novels), it's pretty much his signature gun. I'm glad they've gone back to it over the P99, which just never had the same classic feel to it.--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 10:45, 1 August 2012 (CDT)

Of course. But that still means that the more edgy and realistic Daniel Craig reboot, which started so promisingly in Casino Royale, has now officially gone off the rails and U-turned back into cheesy entertainment territory. If that's the case, please give me back Pierce Brosnan's easy charm, Roger Moore's humour, or Sean Connery sheer animal charisma, not Daniel Craig's brooding sulkiness.

:I don't see how you can claim they've totally rejected the serious tone and gone back to being cheesy fun JUST because he's using the PPK again. Especially as you haven't even seen the film! I mean, do you not realise what a ridiculous jump in logic that is? That's like saying "Because Bond has a beard in one scene they're going to bring back Madonna."--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 02:51, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

I really wish we'd see other Walthers. Nothing wrong with "tradition' but how about the newer P99 or the PPQ or the PPS? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:17, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

:Here's a solution to allow MGM (and Walther) to make boatloads of cash off an "official James Bond" pistol and not risk their reputation by having it used in an inappropriately-violent manner--make and market a PROP gun (that has a movable trigger/hammer, working magazine release, and dummy magazine, but obviously cannot be converted to live fire) that resembles what James Bond uses in a future movie. Just look at how many adults (and kids) will shell out lots of cash for prop lightsabers from the [[Star Wars]] series. If I were feeling in a "Q" mood, I'd mandate that it must have a tactical flashlight and laser sight at a minimum, and possibly a single-shot taser/stun gun weapon rail-mounted under the barrel just in case Bond needs less-lethal takedown capability and doesn't feel up to hand-to-hand combat. If you want to keep the prop out of the hands of kids, make it a "only X units produced" luxury good, possibly sold first at auction (so as to keep the price above what most little kids can beg and whine to their parents for). As for cheesy, aside from the various obvious film errors you can spot in the theatrical cut (i.e., Bond goes for a dip in a frozen lake and seconds later emerges completely dry), it seems that Bond has been taking notes from Sam Fisher (specifically the "Mark and Execute" gameplay mechanic from [[Splinter Cell: Conviction]]). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 11:59, 5 January 2013 (EST)
:And what's to stop people using that to hold up a convenience store? There's a reason you can't buy Airsoft guns in this country without jumping through god knows how many legal hoops first or painting it bright green. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 12:13, 5 January 2013 (EST)
:Really, I think the only criticism that should be had regarding the PPK is what situations it got used in: Bond would carry it even into drawn out firefights with enemies equipped with assault rifles and modern combat pistols. He always picked up a bad guy's gun (or armed himself with one from the start; the Piz Gloria battle in ''[[On Her Majesty's Secret Service]]'' had him enter the fight with a Sterling), but it seemed odd when he went into a highly dangerous situation without upping his arsenal. If he kept the P99 in his glove box and used it when he needed the extra power and capacity, that would be fine.

:That said, the PPK fits Bond's character. Moving away from the obvious arguments of how such a sleek looking pistol fits him or how the PPK is too iconic to eliminate, it suits someone who needs an extremely concealable weapon and has the skills needed to make it effective. I mean, the guy shot someone through the eye with a nail gun with one snap shot at a rather long range for a gun that isn't meant for actually firing its projectiles through the air, and that's just talking about the Craig Bond. It doesn't matter if he needs a gun that can punch through modern body armor if he's not carrying it into a situation where he can be expecting to be getting into firefights with guys in armor, and even if he did, he's good enough that he can pop them in the head.

:The PPK works for him for the exact same reasons people continue to carry it to this day: it's extremely small and slim and unusually accurate for a gun of its size (Hickok45 can hit the gong at over 100 yards with a PPK/S, so someone like James Bond being able to hit a man size target at a quarter that range isn't out of the question). People still use .32 ACP and .380 ACP effectively to this day, and .45 ACP still has plenty of stories where it failed to drop the bad guy instantly. The effectiveness of a round is based on shot placement, and the sheer kinetic energy of the bullet only does so much to compensate for that. I would trust James Bond to easily be able to kill me with the first shot even if I came into battle with the gear of the North Hollywood bank robbers. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 06:04, 6 February 2013 (EST)

== What Happened??? ==

In [[Casino Royale (2006)]], Bond had good trigger discipline and kept good two handed grips on his guns, an now we have shots of him in a footchase pointing his PPK in front of him with his finger on the trigger... call me a safety Nazi but I expect better from a trained agent....--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 11:35, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

You mean the footchase at Tower Hill? Maybe, and correct me if i'm wrong he just shot someone....

I'm pretty sure Bond was chasing/shooting at someone so that would explain it [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:38, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

==CO19 holster weapons==

The lads from CO19 seem too have a Glock in their holsters. The norm for police carrying sidearms in the UK is a Glock 17, so its safe too assume that they are also Glock 17s.

[[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

Several of the Bond forums have photo threads and their are images of the armourer hand the CO19 actors Glock 17s and G36s.

Regards,
Tecolote

==Trailer unknown gun==

The teaser trailer dropped today, and I have clocked an unknown gun around 1:11. It is scoped and suppressed, but I am unable too identify it. Can someone have a look and possibly screencap it? Cheers lads

[[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

:It was an odd looking thing, whatever it is. It is mostly in shadow but you get one good whole weapon shot of it when there is a flash of light:
:[[File:Skyfall sniper rifle.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
:I think if it is a real gun it is highly modified. My guess would be that it is a covert gun that passes as something else (like the [[(Day of the Jackal) - Custom Sniper Rifle|Day of the Jackal]] rifle), as the trigger is a random metal loop, and that vertical part is not a magazine, but appears to fold down from the front as a sort of monopod. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:06, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

It is some type of bolt action for sure,and definitely a covert job.
Regards,
Tecolote

The bolt looks like something off of an Accuracy International rifle.--[[User:6pulkpancerna|6pulkpancerna]] 11:37, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

Thanks, I should have known that as I was examining an AI in .300Win. the day before yesterday.

Regards,

Tecolote

I would say its a grease gun--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 15:26, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

:It deffinitely has nothing to do with an M3, as it is a bolt action feeding from a rifle size magazine (in the trailer it clearly shows the magazine being inserted into the rifle). The large vertical part appears to be a hand grip or support strut of some sort and is not a magazine. As for it being an Accuracy International I can see where you are coming from, but I don't think it is. First off the bolt stem on an AI AW curves backwards, and the bolt on this is straight. Also, the bolt is too far forward from the front of the weapon. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:28, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

Yeah, I was just kinda throwing it out there. If it is a M3, it looks like it is highly customized. But now I know it is not a M3.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 17:10, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

I don't think we'll be able to tell just from this. It looks almost like a custom mockup built around a real weapon. Hell, considering the unusual trigger, box-shaped suppressor, and various almost unrecognizable bits and pieces, it could very well be a completely inert prop with CGI firing. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 20:36, 23 May 2012 (CDT)

It could be a prototype weapon where the design has not been released to the general public. Otherwise, it is just a complete custom mockup.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 21:40, 23 May 2012 (CDT)

:Um, if the general public don't know about it then how is a movie director going to ask for one? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:59, 9 September 2012 (EDT)

looking at the bolt area and where the stock attaches, my money would be on it being a PGM Ultima Ratio, obviously heavily mocked up, but impossible to say for sure without more pics - TheSpannaMunkee

this rifle appears visually similar to the AMSD OM 50 Nemesis with a large amount of visual modification [[User:LachlanDMcCahon|LachlanDMcCahon]] ([[User talk:LachlanDMcCahon|talk]]) 01:54, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

You get a much closer look at it at the end of the Skyfall section of ''007 Legends''; since I imagine the game's designers had some access to the prop, it might be useful as a source of ID if it's a decent enough match to the movie version. I'll see about getting a shot of it. Also the Patrice boss fight in that game is stunningly dreadful. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:33, 21 January 2013 (EST)
:From what I've heard, "stunningly dreadful" pretty much describes the entire game. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 09:00, 21 January 2013 (EST)
::Yeah, at best it's mediocre and it isn't often at its best. But Patrice in particular is a throwback to the bad old days of sci-fi FPS bosses where you fight a totally ordinary man with a stupidly powerful weapon who can soak up enough firepower to sink a cruiser. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:25, 21 January 2013 (EST)

[[Image:Patrice-Sniper-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Patrice-Sniper-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Also I'd forgotten that this re-enacts the part of the movie where Bond defeats him by abusing the hell out of a bunch of invincible glass doors. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:49, 21 January 2013 (EST)

:That looks pretty accurate to me, here is a shot from the trailer which shows the odd shape of the magazine well, and it seems to be a match. The texture on the side of the magazine is incorrect for the game gun though:
:[[File:Skyfall sniper rile load.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
:As to what the gun is, I still am not sure. I can't 100% justify this, but I have this feeling that the base of the weapon may actually be a Remington 700 in an AICS, without the polymer stock on the outside, and with a fabricated metal box over the top. [http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc356/03rangerxlt/AICS%20Installation/DSC00651.jpg Here] is an image of the bare chassis. To me it looks like what they may have done is to machine off the mag well forwards of the finger hole (hence the rough bare metal edge visible in the above shot). The shape behind the magazine well in the trigger area also looks like a match to me. If this is the case, everything upwards of the horizontal line about a centimetre below the ejection port is a cosmetic box, which would explain the rough finish appearing as if it is simply sheet metal that has been painted, rather than a more durable finish you would see on a genuine weapon part. There also appears to be some rough machining on the channel that the bolt handle travels in, which would also be part of this cosmetic fascia. Although not very clear, the magazine also looks like the [http://shoowars.info/img.php?fl=a406n4i443p2p256u4p4q2n4m5j434l4f5g4j4p5t5s4l4u2a4l4f4t22606c4r494w5g516u2n4f4n4l434j414v2q2q264v2v203039444p2v2o5n484 extended ones] that you can get for the Rem 700 AICS. Just to add before anyone suggest it, I don't think it is a genuine AI, as the magazine and bolt handle are the wrong shape for starters. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:07, 22 January 2013 (EST) One more thing, go [http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/misc/35909-aics-stock-install.html here] to see a load more images of the chassis, along with a standard length magazine which I believe is a match for this one. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:32, 22 January 2013 (EST)

== Additional images to be Id'ed ==

These are some more images from the trailer. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 23:16, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

In order: 1. Bond's PPK, which he promptly reloads

2. I assume his HK416 during his house shootout

3. The strange mock-up seen above

4. A Glock, or possibly a SIG? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 01:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

[[File:SkyF 1002.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:SkyF 1003.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:SkyF 1005.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:I'm hoping the gun in that last image is a P99 [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
::Number 4 isn't a Glock and I don't think it's a SIG either, it looks to have a slide mounted safety like a Beretta 92FS but the front profile makes me think it's some sort of Browning variant. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:22, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

The gun on the last picture looks like a P99 to me...But a 92FS isn't a crazy thought, maybe he picked it up from a Silva tug or something..

I'm inclined to think either Browning or 1911 variant --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:07, 22 May 2012 (CDT)
:I reckon it's probably some sort of Browning or 1911 variant, the frame looks too long to be a P99. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:48, 22 May 2012 (CDT)
I've taken a new screencap of the silhouette of the strange SMG thing he has, the best I could find. It looks vaguely like the silhouette of a MAT-49, though I doubt that's what it is. Hope it helps nonetheless: http://i49.tinypic.com/359ecl3.png [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:43, 22 May 2012 (CDT)
:Look a couble of sections up and you will see a cap of it in the light, where you can see it is actually cuilt on (if anything) a bolt action rifle. What you are seeing as a long SMG magazine is a cosmetic thing stuck on the weapon which appears to be folded forward for storage. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:05, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

You know, i guess it's maybe a H&K USP because it looks like it so much
:Number 4 could be a HK USP actually. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:28, 23 May 2012 (CDT)
Haha, someone who's agreed with me ;)
:Sign your posts though. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:42, 24 May 2012 (CDT)
All right, will do. --[[User:Walther_arms|walther_arms]]

Picture No. 4 is a Glock 17;there are a number of newly released stills that confirm this. Apparently Bond disarms the guy pointing one at him inthe percussion cap dueler photo and winds up aiming at(or maybe shooting) somebody with a 2 handed hold.
The dueler is almost certainly a Pedersoli repro of a LePage dueling pistol.

Regards,

Tecolote

Should there be a page made for Ola Rapace? The actor fighting bond wielding the converted Glock 17 and the unknowne Sub-Machine Gun?-Bravejoker

== trailer weapons ==

seen the new trailer bad guy seems to have custom take down sniper rifle fits with the mytos of the films allso looks like bond goes back to the p99 all i have seen is a bad blurry image but the trigger guard is defeniatly not a ppk jump in any one who can clear this up--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] 15:49, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

ok the courtyard gun in the trailer 1 got a better look at it seems to be a glock 17 --[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] 15:46, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgr2syY_OU4&feature=youtu.be --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 09:58, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

:Awesome!! Just wanted to point out that there is also a slightly different US version, also viewable on the jamesbond007 channel on YouTube. I don't know about you guys, but I think this has some serious potential...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:54, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== Signature Walther PPK ==

a pistol Signature gun that only 007 can use did they not use this in license to kill in 1989 at least they upgraded the caliber to .380 acp (9mm x 17mm short) which is slightly better than the .32 acp (7.65x17mm) that was used in the books and films--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] 14:51, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

Kinda. In License to Kill it was a sniper rifle disguised as a camera that was the gun that required a palm scan, not the Walther PPK [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 19:16, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== "12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun" ==

I've read that this is "Anderson Wheeler 500 Nitro Double Rifle" (source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465931593424952&set=a.430960320255413.102948.154596811225100&type=1&theater ); may it be true?
[[User:Pawelm|Pawelm]] 17:43, 2 August 2012 (CEST)
:I remember an article about a set visit where they were talking about the fact that the big bad in this film is fond of antique British weapons and uses percussion pistols and a .500 Nitro Express rifle, so that ID might be right. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:59, 2 August 2012 (CDT)
::I've changed the identification, since you are probably correct. For those who are interested, here is the company website: [http://www.andersonwheeler.co.uk/double_rifle.php Anderson Wheeler Double Rifle] --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 22:07, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer ==

I watched the new trailer this morning, and at the bit when Bond meets Q, I swear I could have heard Q saying the PPK is infact a PPK/S. Could be wrong, but did anyone else notice this? [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

:Yeah, it was even mentioned on the main page of Skyfall. I think it could definitely be a blued PPK/S based on the grip size. Can someone who knows PPKs better than I do confirm this?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:13, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

::Am I the only one who thinks that there might be a sort of shooting competition between Bond and Silva? I mean, look at the main page, where the P99 and the Flintlock pistols are. Bond is wearing the same suit, the background is the same and it's the same time of day. Just some food for thought --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 02:34, 3 August 2012 (CDT).
:::I don't think that's a P99, it could be the Glock that he has pointed at his head in the screenshot with Silva firing the Flintlock. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:24, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

Ive taken a close look at the screen cap of Ola Rapace firing the Glock and if you look close enough it appears there is a selector switch on the side, meaning it could be a genuine Glock 18. -Bravejoker

==Just seen it==
Having just seen the film, I can happily say there were plenty of gunfights and we'll be spoilt for choice when screencapping it. There were so many closeups, especially of the PPK. Here's a list of all the guns I spotted:

* Walther PPK – used by Bond (naturally), Eve and M.
* Glock 17 – used extensively by London Met, Silva and his team when disguised as police officers. Bond definitely uses one on the island; it's not a P99.
* Glock 18 – used by Patrice during the opening scene in Turkey, first fitted with a Beta-C 100-round magazine, then standard 33-round magazines.
* Possible Steyr M9 – used by Silva during the Skyfall Lodge shootout.
* M4 – used by MI6 guards.
* H&K 416 – used by Silva’s men and several by Bond during the Skyfall Lodge shootout.
* H&K MP7 – used by Silva’s men on his island.
You're welcome - --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] ([[User talk:Taurus96|talk]]) 15:20, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

:Fairly sure the pistol Silva had at the lodge was a [[Steyr M9-A1]], the shape of the frame around the rail is pretty distinctive. I think this may have also been the pistol that was used by one of the 3 bodyguards at the Macau place with the komodo dragon pit, you see it when Eve stamps on the guys arm to stop him picking it up (I think this is what happened, can't remember the exact chain of events). Also I think Patrice uses a Glock 17 during the assassination later in the film, in the shot where he removes the suppressor it has no selector on the left side of the slide. There was also a machine gun mounted on a Merlin helicopter during the climax but didn't get a clear look at it due to it being dark and the brief shots of it. My guess is that it is an M2, or possibly an M3M, based on the mounting. Also, I think we should simply say that the Anderson Wheeler 500 NE Double Rifle is used by Bond during the films climax, anything over and above that I would consider a spoiler (at least until the film is on home release and most people will have already seen it). I still have no idea what the weird sniper rifle is, it seems like it was designed so that the case itself is part of the gun (the scope is the carry handle and the long piece at the front is the front edge of the case), but I don't see the point of having a suitcase that turns into a gun when you can just carry a suitcase with a take-down rifle in it. Still, was a great film IMHO, would highly recommend. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:09, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

::Just saw the film again on Friday and, yeah, you're right it is a Steyr M9A1, I get the two mixed up. Patrice also ditches his Glock 18 when it runs empty and uses a standard 17 during the assassination scene, like you said. Also, I spotted a Tokarev on some news footage, but the footage was paused before it was fired. --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] ([[User talk:Taurus96|talk]]) 15:53, 11 November 2012 (EST)

:::Are we certain that it was an actual Glock 18 as a Glock 17 is usually just converted to fire full auto than them using an actual Glock 18. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 17:21, 11 November 2012 (EST)

::::It definitely is, the fire selector is clearly seen when it is first used. Conversely we can be relaively certain it is replaced with a Glock 17 later on as it lacks the selector (although the shot could have been flipped, I didn't look at the ejection port). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:40, 11 November 2012 (EST)

I believe the pistol used by the third bodyguard before Eve stomps on his arm was actually a Walther P99, the rear end looked pretty similar.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 19:41, 11 November 2012 (EST)
:Possibly, I have only seen the film once and is a very brief shot. However, at the time it struck me as a Steyr M9-A1, and if it is not then it is quite a coincidence that a definite one turns up later in the film. Also, I don't think they would include a Walther P99 in a Bond film and have Bond not use it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:01, 11 November 2012 (EST)

::No, it definitely wasn't a Walther, the front end was too tall. A Steyr is our best guess at this stage. --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] ([[User talk:Taurus96|talk]]) 08:16, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Just to confirm, the MG mounted on the Merlin is an M2HB, it is visible in [http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=70141 this] VLOG about helicopter filming about 25 seconds in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

== Quick question regarding the police shootout during M's public inquiry ==

Would an armed British police officer in real life be allowed to open fire straight away on the bad guy, if the bad guy suddenly starts shooting without warning? --[[User:Btgr|Btgr]] ([[User talk:Btgr|talk]]) 03:27, 5 January 2013 (EST)
:I believe the rule is "real and imminent threat to life". If the suspect has already opened fire then they are justified in shooting back without warning. But don't quote me on that. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 09:14, 5 January 2013 (EST)

Another question I can think of. Does anyone here know any famous shootouts that involved armed Metropolitan Police officers in real life? --[[User:Btgr|Btgr]] ([[User talk:Btgr|talk]]) 15:12, 30 January 2013 (EST)
:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom#Notable_incidents Read this. It lists all of them involving mostly CO19]. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 17:07, 30 January 2013 (EST)
::I wouldn't really call any of those "shootouts". In fact the incidents listed there are mostly unarmed people or bystanders getting shot rather than armed criminals or the police. Now that I think about it, I can't even think of an incident where there was two way firing that the Met were involved in. Lethal incidents that I can think of either involve armed criminals being shot by the police before they can draw their weapon or fire, or incidents where unarmed police were killed by armed criminals, such as the Shepherd's Bush murders. One of the biggest "shootings" by the Met that I can think of was when [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azelle_Rodney Azelle Rodney] was shot, where multiple officers shot the tyres of the suspects car with Hatton rounds from shotguns whilst another shot at Rodney 8 times with his G36C through the drivers window. This is a case of the suspects being armed but not actually shooting though (they were armed with a .25 Auto derringer converted from a self defence gas gun, a Baikal IZH-79 gas gun (which is based on the Makarov PM) rebarrelled to 9x18mm and threaded for a suppressor, and a deactivated Colt .45 which had been partially reactivated). Just FYI for anyone who is curious, the Baikal IZH-79 has become one of the most common weapons used by armed criminals in London due to its ease of conversion and the fact that it can take a suppressor. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:47, 30 January 2013 (EST)

==PPK palm print scanner ==

Something just occurred to me on how much of a problem the palm print PPK can be and a problem in the scene it was first used in China. Bond checked his gun to see the green light but later one after he got off the elevator, he was wearing gloves...how does the gun go off with him holding the gun when the gun only fires when it reads his palm print? It's also obviously they wrote the palm sensor device for the one scene when "not odd job" takes his gun away and tried to shoot him. After that, we never see this kind of device ever again. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:05, 4 February 2013 (EST)

I just watched the film again and maybe I missed something but I could have sworn that when he had the PPK in his hands he had his gloves off and when he put the PPK away he put his gloves back on? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 21:41, 12 February 2013 (EST)

== Add'l Images ==

[[File:Skyfall-eve-ppk.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Promotional image of Eve holding a Walther PPK/S.]]

[[File:Skyfall-raoul-silva.jpeg|thumb|300px|none|Promotional image of Raoul Silva holding a Steyr M9A1.]]
[[Image:SkyFall-Tower-Chase-Bond-PPK.jpg|400px|thumb|none|A picture from the set, showing James Bond during a foot chase at Tower Hill.]]

Talk:Red (2010)

2013-01-24T00:56:06Z

Bristow8411: /* Did Bruce Willis use 2 different 1911s? */ new section

What's that chunky anti-material rifle hanging up in John Malkovic's gun-den? Looks to me like a Steyr 50HS, except with a custom scope?? - Bigchiefreefa

I think it might be an AR-50. The one in the movie has the same horizontal grooves as an Ar-50. Also, the rifle in the movie doesn't have a magazine. The Ar-50 is a single-shot .50cal. I think it's one of the two. -Dr. Feelgood

==Anyone know what this is?==
I don't know power tools so I need help ;) mpm What is Malkovich holding and loading?

It's for punching concrete nails. You insert .22 blanks, and it pressures out nails with a sabot. --[[User:Gwhysow|Gwhysow]] 18:35, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
::I KNEW it was some sort of hammer, but do you know which one?

It is a HILTI DX 460-F8. http://www.hilti.de/holde/page/module/product/prca_rangedetail.jsf?lang=de&nodeId=-69275

[[Image:Tool.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

Yahoo movies just released a new trailer that shows some more guns and better angles on the ones we already know. Just FYI.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:33, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

fitting for a character that act crazy to be using a nail gun

He's not using the nail gun as a weapon but too bolt down the .50 tripod and in the above pic is preparing to fix the mechanism that holds the trigger down. --[[User:Sidewinder Forge|Sidewinder Forge]] 08:32, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Loved the part when he saidL "the Secret Service used to be tougher", sounds like a reference to In the Line of Fire. Too bad Clint Eastwood isn't in this film too.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 11:52, 9 March 2011 (MSK)

==KARL URBAN'S SIG 226 SPORT ==

Though at first sight I had hoped for a custom comp'd 1911, I realized that he was holding a Sport. Again, I could be a little off, but take a look for yourself.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2815066112/tt1245526

--[[User:Gwhysow|Gwhysow]] 18:42, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

That it correct...it is a Sig 226 Sport or the 220 sport.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:02, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

I think I see double stack bulges in the grip making it the P226 Sport but I can't be sure.

:I dunno, I mean, yes it appears to have double stack bulges, but the bore diameter looks far too large to be 9mm, not to mention that his compensator is much longer than the one in the P226 Sport picture.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 15:16, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

The pistol is a 220 sport, and not a 226, because of the features of the compensator and muzzle diameter.

:Saw this last night, definitely a P220 Sport, there are no bulges on the frame.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 17:21, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Helen Mirren's Sniper Rifle ==

Anyone know what it is? You see it briefly when she makes the "girl time" remark in one of the trailers. I think it may be something like a Mk12 or maybe an M4 with a sniper scope. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:02, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

You get a much better view of it in the newer trailer. I'd dump a screen-shot in but I'm at work and don't have access (damn you web marshall!). At a glance I thought it was either a modified M4 or an M16 SPR. But I could easily be well off the mark. Anyone (smarter than me) got a better clue? --[[User:bigchiefreefa|bigchiefreefa]] 12:30 26 Juy 2010 (GMT)
::It's a standard M16A4 style HBAR flat top upper with a GemTech Suppressor, standard A2 handguards with a Harris Bipod mounted and a CAA Sharp Shooting Stock on the back end. (edit) BTW, I got one of these with a CAA stock. Just have to make sure all the other details are correct before I photograph the gun. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:15, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:RED-M16Sniper01.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Helen Mirren with an M16A4 flat top HBAR rifle with a GemTech Suppressor, standard A2 handguards with a Harris Bipod mounted and a CAA Sharp Shooting Stock on the back end - 5.56mm]]
[[Image:RED-M16Sniper02.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Closer shot detailing the CAA Sharp Shooter Buttstock for the M16 - 5.56mm]]
[[Image:CAASharpShooterStock.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|CAA ARS Sharp Shooter Stock for M16/M4]]

== New Guns ==

I just saw an advanced free screening. I am going to add that there was an AKMS, an M240 with spade grips, a corner shot with a Glock (unknown model) and M68 Aimpoint, a regular P226 used by William Cooper's ([[Keith Urban]]) supervisor (movie name Cynthia), and either a p228 or p229 used by the secret service agents. Also am M26 Taser, and either an M21 or M14 on John Malkoviche's character's safe house (only saw the left side). It's late and I'm tired, just putting this up so I don't forget tomorrow.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

in one of the trailers I think I saw some one holding a corner shot.

== Guns used to shoot up Frank Moses' house in Ohio ==

In the db, it was stated that maybe a PKM was used. I thought it looked like a M249 with the handguard removed. It definitely had a different bipod than on the PKM. The bipod looked like it was from a Barrett M82A.

It looks to feed from the right, and the M249 dosn't do that dos is? As far as I know, only Russian guns feed from the right.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 22:30, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

The barrel alignment isn't right for a PKM. [It's either an [[RPD]] with no foresight or an [[M60]] with no foresight or handgaurd-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

I think its an [[RPD]]. maybe?

It might also be the [[FN MAG]] in the weapons cache.

PKM? In the film, the machine gun feeds from the right and has the charging handle on the right side. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 23:35, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I saw a pretty good still of the reciever of this weapon and it looks like a PKM reciever. It has that large drop forward of the ammo feed and what looks like rimmed cartridges and a skeleton buttstock and nondisintegrating belt feed.

[[Image:PKM-mg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[Image:Red 302.jpg|thumb|none|800px]]

It is a PKM machine gun modified with accessories from Blackheart International (http://www.bhigear.com). They purchased 2 accessory kits from us to modify PKM's. We did not get to see the final modifications they did to the PKM, but as you can see from the movie screenshot above, they cut off the fron sight.

[[Image:BHI-SOPMOD-PKM.jpg|thumb|none|800px]]

:Thanks so much for that info! Really cool! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:26, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

== .45 acp appeared to be a Para ==

When Moses goes into the Russian Embassy, he hands over his pistol to those left in car, it seemed to me to be a Para or Kimber, hard to tell but it did have a stamp of some large sort on Slide? just a thought? Notice Skeletonized Hammer for one. Ambi-Safety for 2.

== Helen Mirren ==
I think it was on Entertainment Tonight, yes I watch it, that Mirren mentions the weapons training she had to go through in order to be allowed to handle loaded firearms. As a side note, one of my fav weapons related moments in this movie was when Malkovich reverently kisses an SMG and says "Swedish K, now that is exciting." --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:52, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

:I think the Carl Gustav M45 was a favorite with special forces in the 1960-1970s

Also regarding Helen Mirren:
She performs the HK slap like a pro during the scene with the MP-5Ks. Awesome. --[[User:rlapid2112|rlapid2112]]

==Questionable sources==
[[Image:Red_Unknown.png|thumb|none|500px|]]
I'm removing this screencap from the actual page, since it looks like it was jacked from an illegal copy, most likely a bad cam version. This should also be removed from here later. We can't go around taking screencaps from dvdscreeners/cams/telesyncs(=crap) beacause if some studio boss sees this they're gonna be all over this page. You should wait for the BLU-Ray/DVD to be released. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 18:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

The Colt MK IV Series 80 is not used by former CIA operative Frank Moses. '''He used Para 1911 GI Expert.'''

I'm sure for 100%.
::The only thing potentially disproving this is the the ambidextrous safety. The GI Expert lack that. Unless an armorer for the film claims he added an ambi safety for the piece, I'm not 100% sold. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

Well, Bruce is a well known south paw so it could be likely that a good armorer would be prepared for this.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 22:14, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

How can it be that para when it clearly does not say GI Expert on the slide? Look at the last pic. Nothing on the slide.
:You can make out the stamp on the slide actually if you look closesly. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

No you cant make out any lettering on the weapon. [[User:Gunman2006|Gunman2006]]

==Joe Matheson's 1911==
Joe Matheson's ([[Morgan Freeman]]) 1911 is listed as a GI Expert Para-Ordnance likes Frank's. I'm unsure if it is, but I found this pic on IMDb:
[[Image:RedM1911MorganFreeman.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Note this 1911 is single stack stainless with pearl grips and a suppressor.]]
Unsure if it is a GI Expert or not, but I'm unsure of the make. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Reference ==

I have not seen the movie, so I don't know if it's already been said, but the screencap below reminds me of the incursion of the ESU in Leon.
[[Image:Red 208.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Red (2010).]]
[[Image:Leon185.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Leon (1994).]]

Or am I wrong?--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 13:37, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The mook from red is falling backwords after being shot. the mook for Leon has he hands up because Leon took him hostage

coincidence since a lot of movies and shows tend to copy off of each other in terms of shots [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

== Milkor MGL? ==

In the "Hidden Cache of Weapons" part Charon68 mislaved a granade launcher as a Milkor MGL, I'm 103% sure is the same DefTech prop from The Incredible Hulk. Here, compare

Incredible Hulk:
[[Image:Vlcsnap-183240.jpg|thumb|600px|none|37mm barrel, full stock, chubby RIS handguard.]]

Red:
[[Image:Red 303.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|Same full stock and fat RIS handguard.]]

Isn't it true that you should not store guns horizantally because it will dis-align the barrel? --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 00:41, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I mean rifles, not pistols --[[User:Sergei Titov|Sergei Titov]] 13:49, 15 October 2011 (CDT)Сергей Титов

:What?! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:37, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

::It is indeed the same launcher in both movies. Movie Armaments Group supplied the weapons on both productions. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:04, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown Under Barrel Revolver Attachment ==

When the team are in the woods (I won't go into details for spoilers sake), John Malkovich's Smith and Wesson has some sort of underbarrel attachment. It's not just a flashlight mount (that's sort of on the side), this looks more like some kind of single shot shotgun barrel, like a mini M203. Any ideas? --Cole Thorton 26th January, 2011

There is a clearer shot of the bottom pic in this months empire magazine and you can see a flashlight to the left side of the pistol and youre right, what can only be descrided as a shotun barrel underslung the revolver. I have no idea what it is tho --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 08:39, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2423227904/tt1245526

Clearer pic at link --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 08:43, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

== S&W 629 with Cooey Shotgun attachment: Many Thanks! ==

The S&W handgun carried by Boggs after visiting Dunning's home is a S&W Model 629 with a Cooey Single Barrel Shotgun attached.
Just wanted to say thanks for the IMFDB exclusive! --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:24, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
[[Image:M.A.G Red rev2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

I want to thank you for pointing that out, you have no idea how long that has been puzzling me. Many thanks! -Cole

== Assassin's Pistol? ==

Just saw it, the assassin who went after Joe early on had a suppressed pistol, Can anyone tell what it is?

==Browning Comment==
Can you really say with certainty that the the .50 cal would go through those SUVs? Presidential vehicles are extremely heavily armored, five inches thick I believe. It seems to me like the people building these vehicles would have taken .50 cal rounds into account... -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:14, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
:i agree. i doubt a tank round could go through The Beast, let alone a .50 BMG. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

==two missing weapons==
Right before the credits of the movie (at 01:44:00) you can see two 92FS pistols falling down with a bunch of frag grenades when the picture of Willis and the girl turns into a book cover. Also there are two M1911-look-a-like pistols right after the Berettas. (Sorry, I really suck at the Colt-clones, they all look the same for me.) I don't own a "decent" version of the movie so I cannot upload the screens, if you know what I mean.... anyways, I hope someone can upload those two pistols. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 19:43, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

== Continuity error on the GI Expert ==

In the scene where Willis first uses the GI Expert. If you go scence-by-scene when he loads it, the weapon has a traditional GI Rod and Plug assembly. However, while he is clearing the house there are two close ups of the weapon firing that clearly display a full-length guide rod. This is either a different weapon or the recoil system was changed for some reason for the action shots.

== Browning M2 ==

i remember the part when Helen Mirren is firing at the Vice President's Motorcade. and the bullets don't penetrate the doors on the surburban. if i'm not mistaken, those surburbans were outfitted with armor. i mean, he's the vice president, not just the president gets armored vehicles. im pretty sure im right.

== RPN? ==
When Joe is introducing Victoria, he calls her the "Best wetwork asset in the business. And a true artist with an RPN." I've been trying to find out what he means by an RPN. Considering the other weapons she uses [She is an accomplished Sniper, but also uses submachine guns and emplaced weapons], I'd venture to guess it's a high-caliber rifle. But I haven't found anything like it.

:Never heard of a weapon by that name and acronym finders bring up nothing. Unless she's an artist with a rotating plug nozzle, which sounds terrible and wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:40, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

== RPG scene on Mythbusters ==
They just busted the RPG scene on Mythbusters. basically the blast from the RPG would be directed at Boggs not the assassin lady. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 23:25, 28 September 2011 (CDT)

== Sequel ==

Anybody else as stoked as I am for the sequel coming out in August? Here's the trailer if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UI4V-0k3PY - [[User: 2wingo]]

== Did Bruce Willis use 2 different 1911s? ==

I ask because I recently rewatched the film and noticed that when he's about to go into the Russian Embassy, he gives his 1911 to Marvin. However it appears to have an extended slide lock but when he pulls the 1911 out of the box he buried when his home is attacked, it appears to be a normal slide lock. The 2 pictures are already up on this site from a previous poster [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 19:56, 23 January 2013 (EST)

Talk:Savages

2012-11-18T01:51:14Z

Bristow8411: /* The 1911 variant */ new section

==SIG 556 Designated Marksman Rifle==
I wanted to make a correction to the main page, the Baja Cartel snipers are using SIG 556 DMR's, not the Remington RSASS.
[[Image:Savages-sig556dmr-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Two cartel snipers taking aim with SIG 556 DMR's.]]
[[Image:Savages-sig556dmr-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Better closeup of receiver.]]

==Unknown pistol==
In some shots of the trailer some unidentifiable pistols are shown.

That looks more like a SIG SAUER than a USP Compact. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 19:05, 6 July 2012 (CDT)
[[Image:Unknown_1.jpg|thumb|none|701px|Chon being held up by a gangbanger. Possibly a HK USP Compact. Again excuse the YouTube bar.]]

== Remington 870 ==
[[Image:Chon870.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Chon with his shotgun. The novel describes this scene as "Chon leaves his "Pony" (the Ford Mustang behind him) with a "Remington Model 870 SPS Super Slug pump action, 12-gauge with a synthetic cantilevered slug and a rubberized pistol grip that 'advances deer-leveling technology to farther reaches and smaller group sizes than ever before'."-Don Winslow's ''Savages'', chapter 31, page 46.]]

Just because it is said to be a Remington 870 in the book does not mean it will be an 870 in the movie. Movies miss details from the books they are based off all the time. For example in ''No Country for Old Men,'' Llewelyn's rifle is described as a Mauser rifle, but in the movie adaptation Llewelyn uses a Remington 700. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:08, 29 April 2012 (CDT)

Just about to post the same thing. So it does not mean that the shotgun is actually a 870, we will see when the movie comes out. In the meantime should we just call it unknown shotgun? Also about the M1911, just because of the beavertail and hammer, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a Kimber either, it's not that hard to get a M1911 modified with those parts. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 12:47, 29 April 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I agree they should be listed as unknown shotgun and unknown 1911 variant right now until we can get better shots of both guns. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:00, 29 April 2012 (CDT)

:: Also, Ben's pistol looks like a Heckler & Koch HK45C, so I'm going to list it as such. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:04, 29 April 2012 (CDT)

:::This was my first time creating a page. How did I do? --[[User:Plumtree23|Plumtree23]]

::::The overall format was good, I had to make a few changes to the page, but nothing major, so not too bad for a first page, better than a lot of other first pages I have seen. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:53, 29 April 2012 (CDT)
==Lado's M1911A1==
I distinctly remember the Lado character using an M1911A1 early on in the film, in the part where he killed Shea Whigham's character.

Also spotted a stainless Kahr K9 being used by a motorcycle cop. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 15:53, 10 November 2012 (EST)

== Vests ==
Hey anyone recognize the vests they were wearing during the first convoy assault --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 17:23, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

==Who wants to do this?==

I just saw this movie on Blu ray. Not that much gun action, but just enough. The deleted scenes and behind the scenes vids have some up close shots of some of the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:37, 14 November 2012 (EST)

== The 1911 variant ==

I think the 1911 variant is a SIG Sauer variant, mainly due to the extended barrel but also due to the fact that the slide appears to be the same as the one found on the SIG 1911. There doesn't appear to be the Kimber front serrations though so I think we can rule a Kimber out.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 20:51, 17 November 2012 (EST)

Talk:Tomorrow, When the War Began

2012-11-15T01:21:16Z

Bristow8411: /* Where the heck was the Aussie military? */

Is this an Australian remake of Red Dawn? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:26, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
:No. The film is based on a popular book series by author John Marsden. Although Red Dawn may have been an inspiration, the books are vastly different to the Red Dawn movie. --[[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]] 02:22, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

== Where the heck was the Aussie military? ==
The country gets invaded, so they send out ''one'' F-18? There's no sign whatsoever anywhere in the film, aside from that single plane, to indicate there was any kind of mobilization to counter the invasion. It's like the "Asian Coalition" just swept in unopposed. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:56, 14 November 2012 (EST)

In the books it is stated the invasion happened so far and so suddenly that there was no time to send out any kind of counter attack against the invasion forces. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 20:21, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Talk:Skyfall

2012-11-12T00:41:18Z

Bristow8411: /* Just seen it */

==Bond's main gun==

I know we can see that Bond has chosen the faithful PPK as his sidearm, but I would love too see a return of the P99. It is the use of it in Bond films that made it a preferred personal sidearm of choice [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

I want to see other Walter guns. There's been quite a few new ones since the last movie that came out. I'd love to see the PPQ in action [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:34, 2 February 2012 (CST)

I'd rather him use a SIG Sauer P226 as a bigger pistol like he did in QoS. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:58, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:Nah, I think he needs a more unique pistol, something to mark that only Bond would use. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:16, 2 February 2012 (CST)

same. maybe the SIG or he pulls a [[Collateral]] with the [[Heckler & Koch USP]]--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Is anyone else puzzled by how old and haggard Daniel Craig looks in that picture? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:41, 2 February 2012 (CST)

I still have never liked the new Bond. All the Bonds before Craig were the classic fictional "spy" with all the charms and awesomeness that all women want him and men want to be him. I know REAL spies don't usually act like the classic Bond fashion with super gadgets and all but that's why we love him, not for the realism but for the fantasy it really is. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:16, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Daniel Craig does look older in this picture. I would rather see the new PPS as his sidearm because it's simply an evolution thing. From PPK to P5 to P99, Bond has usually always used a Walther. To have him go back to the PPK, while is nice to see, is not something that make sense this day in age.

:Actually in the Jeffrey Deaver Bond novel "Carte Blanche" Bond does use the Walther PPS [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 17:35, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Daniel Craig has not aged well in my opinion. In Layer Cake when he was early thirties, he looked quite young. When I saw the promo picture for Skyfall, I couldn't believe it was him for a second. I would have liked Bond to sport a P22 or PK380 in Skyfall, but as is life :( [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

Charon68, that is what I was referring to the book. --[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 17:43, 2 February 2012 (CST)

If bond is former SAS soldier, as suggested in Casino Royale, then he would have used a PPK so is a realistic choice. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:04, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Personally though I had thought the PPK was withdrawn from service after the attempted kidnapping of Princess Margaret in 1974. As cool as the thing looks the cartridge is woefully underpowered and would barely make a scratch with modern body armor. [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 18:08, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:That incident was with the police Royalty Protection branch, and at that point the PPK was carried as a primary weapon. It wasn't a power issue, the gun jammed when the protection officer tried to return fire, and was immediately and totally withdrawn by the police due to this freak occurrence. It is still used (or was still used until relatively recently) by the SAS as an ankle gun during close protection work or for undercover work (such as in Northern Ireland), and I think there is also a hidden pocket specifically for the PPK in the SAS CRW coveralls. Main pistols used by SAS are the P226 and P228. Personally I would like to see bond with a P228, or its successor the P229 SAS. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:30, 2 February 2012 (CST)
::On the Casino Royale website it says that Bond is former SBS. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:59, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:::Personally I always thought a worth successor to the PPK would have been the HK P7. [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 20:19, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:::Bond being ex-UKSF has been canon since at least ''[[Tomorrow Never Dies]]''; Bond can be seen wearing a pair of UKSF Parachute wings on the sleeve of his No.1C uniform, as in [[:File:Usairforce.jpg|This shot]]. Plus he uses a P7 in at least one of the novels. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:34, 3 February 2012 (CST)

I think we're torn on the ideal of a the Bond gun as being something small and still powerful to what is more practical. In a real sense, Bond should always be carrying full size guns or larger guns because of the situation. Why a small gun when his outfit could offer concealment on larger frame weapons and with modern day suppressors, you can't say a small gun suppresses better. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:08, 2 February 2012 (CST)

In the novels written by Raymond Benson, Bond would carry a PPK if he needed concealment with a suppressor and he would keep a P99 in his cars or when he was in a tactical situation where he needed more firepower. That was something that was used in the game Bloodstone and would be a nice medium. --[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 22:07, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Bond is a Naval Commmander, and personally I would like him to use a P228, as it is compact enough for undercover work and has a large enough magazine (13 rounds in 9mm) to see him through a gunfight --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 12:54, 5 February 2012 (CST).

The p228 is not bond 007 style. The thing is that the PPK is the classic bond gun, but with a magazine size of at max 8 rounds, it is not very good choice. He could use one of two pistols: the P226 Navy in .40 S&W (since he is an naval commander) or a usp compact in 9 mil. The usp compact is good for concealment and it offers a larger magazine (13 rounds) compared to the ppk's 8.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 15:28, 5 February 2012 (CST)
:"he P226 Navy in .40 S&W (since he is an naval commander)" Wrong Navy, plus the 226 Navy is (I believe) only chambered in 9mm NATO. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:21, 5 February 2012 (CST)

If anything the PPK is a good backup gun nothing else. I personally wouldn't even consider using a PPK as my primary even if I was using a compact gun just because their is simply better compact guns with better stopping power then the PPK.

Guys, we're missing the point. It doesn't matter what guns are better choices than a PPK. Most guns out there are. Bond may be a former SBS or SAS or whatever, but he NEEDS to carry a Walther. For 50 years, he has carried three different guns, all Walther. I am in huge favor of him carrying both a P99 and a PPK depending on the situation, although I would probably get over it if he replaced the PPK with a PPS. I think a lot of people want to see Bond carry guns that THEY like, but don't really fit Bond's persona. All the guns suggested are combat sidearms, while Bond only needs something to serve for a CCW. If he needs more firepower, there is the P99.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:44, 5 February 2012 (CST)

I totally agree with JazzBlackBelt. The P99 is the best for Bond and the PPK makes for a great backup gun.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 22:25, 5 February 2012 (CST)

If they want to be really faithful, they should give him back the Beretta pocket pistol he carried in the first few novels. But now I'm being overly sarcastic and need to calm down. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:30, 6 February 2012 (CST)

While I agree that there are better choices then a PPK, I wouldn't want to step in front of one in the hands of a professional like Daniel Craig's Bond. The PPK is iconic and identified with Bond as much as the dinner suit and the Aston Martin; it was chosen by Fleming because its name "rolled off the tongue" and for its sleek looks. The producers did a good job in Quantum of Solace mixing up the traditional (PPK) with the more modern (P226). And since I am new to this site, if someone could tell me how to leave a signature, I would appreciate it :)
Thanks Funkychinaman for the signature info!--[[User:SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon|SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon]] 22:58, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

I don't know if you folks have seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuO34MDezzU
It looks like folks have been discussing the gun Bond should carry for 50 years. [[User:APS221|APS221]] 00:47, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

They should follow Jeffery Deaver's advice and choose the gun from the book Carte Blanche, the book that was going to be adapted into this film originally. Shame it's not going to be-the gun's a Walther PPS .40 S&W. It betters the PPK in calibers and capacity (if you either have an extended magazine or choose 9mm instead of .40 calibre.), and matches it exactly on size. Also, I believe Bond should have a larger handgun inside his vehicle and for use on covert operations. The PP9, while Bond has been using it before and it has a good capacity, is outdated and still a 9mm. I believe it should be a full-sized handgun, still a Walther, maybe the P22 .22 LR, as it is quieter suppressed than the 9mm PP9. I'm not sure weather .22 LR is more or less powerful than 9mm though...anyone? As for the Bond gun debating, it's never going to stop completely. If Bond books and films carry on being made for hundreds more years, better and more concealable guns in better calibers with better suppressors will become available, and people like us will always disagree with the choice, unless the people in charge of firearms choosing at the Bond films come across this site and choose what we say, which is unlikely. The PPK, whilst good in it's day, is severly outdated (it's nearly twice as old as the actor holding it!), the caliber is ineffective compared to the .40 S&W at penetration and damage, and the PPS can be suppressed just as effectively with modern suppressor technology, compared to the .380 ACP with WWII suppressor technology, and is the same size exactly-Walther claim so themselves. However, the big cheeses at the Bond office just see the PPK not as ineffective, or underpowered, or old, but as a symbol of Bond. I think we may have to put up with it for many years to come, until either they see some sense or are fired. I'm sure Boothroyd's turning in his grave. Alasdair.

The thing with Bond is that he needs to use a gun with decent size caliber. If I would choose a new gun for Bond, I would choose the Kimber Warrior, which is meant for marksmen like Bond. Glocks are good, but are not suited for Bond. The Walther P99 as of the guns Bond has used is the best one that he has used. --[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 10:31, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

I want to see him with a PPS or something like that. The PPK is nice, but this isn't Ian Flemming's bond anymore. He is a more realistic action hero. A PPS in a IWB holster with a P99 or PPQ in his car. I like Craig as Bond because he is more gritty and honestly, less of a man whore. I have experience with a PPS and I think Bond would too.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 11:25, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm a huge fan of the Walther, and i would love to see him use his P99 again, i got a replica of it myself and it's really good. Especially is a Vega Holster!

In the book "Devil May Care", Bond looses his PPK frequently and is mostly seen using, of all things an [[M1911]]. That would be pretty cool. [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]] 14:55, 8 April 2012 (EST)

While I maintain my opinion that the PPK, properly supplemented at appropriate times like in Quantum, is the only gun for Bond, I am sympathetic to the argument that he should be equipped with a more modern weapon. Therefore, I nominate the new SIG SAUER P224. It is of an appropriate size (unlike the Walther P99), has the proven professional pedigree of the P220/226 line, is of high quality (unlike the poor reputation-dogged Walther), isn’t the everyone’s gun the GLOCK is, and has some style and panache that the PPS, GLOCK, USP, and their polymer look-alikes lack. I would prefer 9mm for an agent operating worldwide, but the P224 is available in .40 and .357 SIG (now that’s a serious caliber). --[[User:SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon|SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon]] 23:01, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

:Of course the big problem with a non-Walther gun is that apparently the franchise has a fairly nice sponsorship deal going with Carl Walther GmbH. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:09, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

If the franchise has a big sponsorship with Walther, then why don't Walther make a gun especially designed for James Bond? It could be tailored to meet his needs (suggestions as to what they might be, please), and then they could release it for sale to the public. They'd make a fortune by selling it to James Bond fans, and serious shooters if it was very good. Q could make a big deal in-film about how good it is, and how Walther have made it especially for him. Good idea? Alasdair.

:Well, because imagine the PR when the gun made specially for James Bond is used to hold up a bank, they'd never hear the end of it, nevermind the kind of "MGM is arming our kids!" nonsense they'd get anyway. That and if you're a gun company exec and someone pitches that idea to you, your first reply would be "why not just have him use something we already make?" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:55, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

The whole debate about whether he should be using a PPK should be treated in the same way as whether it is realistic for Bond to engage in so many scuffles in nice, taper-fit Tom Ford suits and Church leather shoes. The cut is simply unrealistic for someone who wishes to conceal serious firepower. Given his obvious fondness for the Italian cut in his suits, it is fitting that Daniel Craig/James Bond should choose the PPK instead of the P99 he had used in the first movie, but, alas, such weapons remained adequate today for a Walter Mitty who would not see much more action. Since the 1970s, an operator carrying a PPK would simply not be taken seriously by fellow professionals, and would be laughed out of the Special Forces Club. A serious operator would simply rather wear a suit with the horrendous sack-like American cut, than do without a true combat pistol.

A former SBS operator would really be more likely to carry a SiG-Sauer P226. He might sacrifice two rounds to save 0.1 inch of butt length by carrying the P228, but someone who really means to can conceal either under a suit jacket. Even women operators could conceal a Heckler and Koch MP5K under their jacket. So the producer or director really missed a chance here to turn James Bond from being a mere walking advertisement for luxury brands to a more serious character (like back in Casino Royale).

Oh, by the way, using an Olympic Arms K23B is the ultimate mark of un-seriousness in a professional. Someone get that girl a HK 416.
:It's most likely what was avaiable and "unique" to the character in the scene. Personally the barrel would have given it crapped accuracy and shooting a guy brawling with a friendly on a moving train would take some expert marksmen even with a better rifle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:17, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

:One word for you - TRADITION. Bond's always used a PPK (except in the first few novels), it's pretty much his signature gun. I'm glad they've gone back to it over the P99, which just never had the same classic feel to it.--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 10:45, 1 August 2012 (CDT)

Of course. But that still means that the more edgy and realistic Daniel Craig reboot, which started so promisingly in Casino Royale, has now officially gone off the rails and U-turned back into cheesy entertainment territory. If that's the case, please give me back Pierce Brosnan's easy charm, Roger Moore's humour, or Sean Connery sheer animal charisma, not Daniel Craig's brooding sulkiness.

:I don't see how you can claim they've totally rejected the serious tone and gone back to being cheesy fun JUST because he's using the PPK again. Especially as you haven't even seen the film! I mean, do you not realise what a ridiculous jump in logic that is? That's like saying "Because Bond has a beard in one scene they're going to bring back Madonna."--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 02:51, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

I really wish we'd see other Walthers. Nothing wrong with "tradition' but how about the newer P99 or the PPQ or the PPS? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:17, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

== What Happened??? ==

In [[Casino Royale (2006)]], Bond had good trigger discipline and kept good two handed grips on his guns, an now we have shots of him in a footchase pointing his PPK in front of him with his finger on the trigger... call me a safety Nazi but I expect better from a trained agent....--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 11:35, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

You mean the footchase at Tower Hill? Maybe, and correct me if i'm wrong he just shot someone....

I'm pretty sure Bond was chasing/shooting at someone so that would explain it [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:38, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

==CO19 holster weapons==

The lads from CO19 seem too have a Glock in their holsters. The norm for police carrying sidearms in the UK is a Glock 17, so its safe too assume that they are also Glock 17s.

[[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

Several of the Bond forums have photo threads and their are images of the armourer hand the CO19 actors Glock 17s and G36s.

Regards,
Tecolote

==Trailer unknown gun==

The teaser trailer dropped today, and I have clocked an unknown gun around 1:11. It is scoped and suppressed, but I am unable too identify it. Can someone have a look and possibly screencap it? Cheers lads

[[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

:It was an odd looking thing, whatever it is. It is mostly in shadow but you get one good whole weapon shot of it when there is a flash of light:
:[[File:Skyfall sniper rifle.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
:I think if it is a real gun it is highly modified. My guess would be that it is a covert gun that passes as something else (like the [[(Day of the Jackal) - Custom Sniper Rifle|Day of the Jackal]] rifle), as the trigger is a random metal loop, and that vertical part is not a magazine, but appears to fold down from the front as a sort of monopod. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:06, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

It is some type of bolt action for sure,and definitely a covert job.
Regards,
Tecolote

The bolt looks like something off of an Accuracy International rifle.--[[User:6pulkpancerna|6pulkpancerna]] 11:37, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

Thanks, I should have known that as I was examining an AI in .300Win. the day before yesterday.

Regards,

Tecolote

I would say its a grease gun--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 15:26, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

:It deffinitely has nothing to do with an M3, as it is a bolt action feeding from a rifle size magazine (in the trailer it clearly shows the magazine being inserted into the rifle). The large vertical part appears to be a hand grip or support strut of some sort and is not a magazine. As for it being an Accuracy International I can see where you are coming from, but I don't think it is. First off the bolt stem on an AI AW curves backwards, and the bolt on this is straight. Also, the bolt is too far forward from the front of the weapon. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:28, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

Yeah, I was just kinda throwing it out there. If it is a M3, it looks like it is highly customized. But now I know it is not a M3.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 17:10, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

I don't think we'll be able to tell just from this. It looks almost like a custom mockup built around a real weapon. Hell, considering the unusual trigger, box-shaped suppressor, and various almost unrecognizable bits and pieces, it could very well be a completely inert prop with CGI firing. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 20:36, 23 May 2012 (CDT)

It could be a prototype weapon where the design has not been released to the general public. Otherwise, it is just a complete custom mockup.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 21:40, 23 May 2012 (CDT)

:Um, if the general public don't know about it then how is a movie director going to ask for one? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:59, 9 September 2012 (EDT)

looking at the bolt area and where the stock attaches, my money would be on it being a PGM Ultima Ratio, obviously heavily mocked up, but impossible to say for sure without more pics - TheSpannaMunkee

this rifle appears visually similar to the AMSD OM 50 Nemesis with a large amount of visual modification [[User:LachlanDMcCahon|LachlanDMcCahon]] ([[User talk:LachlanDMcCahon|talk]]) 01:54, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

== Additional images to be Id'ed ==

These are some more images from the trailer. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 23:16, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

In order: 1. Bond's PPK, which he promptly reloads

2. I assume his HK416 during his house shootout

3. The strange mock-up seen above

4. A Glock, or possibly a SIG? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 01:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

[[File:SkyF 1002.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:SkyF 1003.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:SkyF 1005.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:I'm hoping the gun in that last image is a P99 [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
::Number 4 isn't a Glock and I don't think it's a SIG either, it looks to have a slide mounted safety like a Beretta 92FS but the front profile makes me think it's some sort of Browning variant. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:22, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

The gun on the last picture looks like a P99 to me...But a 92FS isn't a crazy thought, maybe he picked it up from a Silva tug or something..

I'm inclined to think either Browning or 1911 variant --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:07, 22 May 2012 (CDT)
:I reckon it's probably some sort of Browning or 1911 variant, the frame looks too long to be a P99. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:48, 22 May 2012 (CDT)
I've taken a new screencap of the silhouette of the strange SMG thing he has, the best I could find. It looks vaguely like the silhouette of a MAT-49, though I doubt that's what it is. Hope it helps nonetheless: http://i49.tinypic.com/359ecl3.png [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:43, 22 May 2012 (CDT)
:Look a couble of sections up and you will see a cap of it in the light, where you can see it is actually cuilt on (if anything) a bolt action rifle. What you are seeing as a long SMG magazine is a cosmetic thing stuck on the weapon which appears to be folded forward for storage. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:05, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

You know, i guess it's maybe a H&K USP because it looks like it so much
:Number 4 could be a HK USP actually. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:28, 23 May 2012 (CDT)
Haha, someone who's agreed with me ;)
:Sign your posts though. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:42, 24 May 2012 (CDT)
All right, will do. --[[User:Walther_arms|walther_arms]]

Picture No. 4 is a Glock 17;there are a number of newly released stills that confirm this. Apparently Bond disarms the guy pointing one at him inthe percussion cap dueler photo and winds up aiming at(or maybe shooting) somebody with a 2 handed hold.
The dueler is almost certainly a Pedersoli repro of a LePage dueling pistol.

Regards,

Tecolote

Should there be a page made for Ola Rapace? The actor fighting bond wielding the converted Glock 17 and the unknowne Sub-Machine Gun?-Bravejoker

== trailer weapons ==

seen the new trailer bad guy seems to have custom take down sniper rifle fits with the mytos of the films allso looks like bond goes back to the p99 all i have seen is a bad blurry image but the trigger guard is defeniatly not a ppk jump in any one who can clear this up--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] 15:49, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

ok the courtyard gun in the trailer 1 got a better look at it seems to be a glock 17 --[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] 15:46, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgr2syY_OU4&feature=youtu.be --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 09:58, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

:Awesome!! Just wanted to point out that there is also a slightly different US version, also viewable on the jamesbond007 channel on YouTube. I don't know about you guys, but I think this has some serious potential...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:54, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== Signature Walther PPK ==

a pistol Signature gun that only 007 can use did they not use this in license to kill in 1989 at least they upgraded the caliber to .380 acp (9mm x 17mm short) which is slightly better than the .32 acp (7.65x17mm) that was used in the books and films--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] 14:51, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

Kinda. In License to Kill it was a sniper rifle disguised as a camera that was the gun that required a palm scan, not the Walther PPK [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 19:16, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== "12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun" ==

I've read that this is "Anderson Wheeler 500 Nitro Double Rifle" (source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465931593424952&set=a.430960320255413.102948.154596811225100&type=1&theater ); may it be true?
[[User:Pawelm|Pawelm]] 17:43, 2 August 2012 (CEST)
:I remember an article about a set visit where they were talking about the fact that the big bad in this film is fond of antique British weapons and uses percussion pistols and a .500 Nitro Express rifle, so that ID might be right. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:59, 2 August 2012 (CDT)
::I've changed the identification, since you are probably correct. For those who are interested, here is the company website: [http://www.andersonwheeler.co.uk/double_rifle.php Anderson Wheeler Double Rifle] --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 22:07, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer ==

I watched the new trailer this morning, and at the bit when Bond meets Q, I swear I could have heard Q saying the PPK is infact a PPK/S. Could be wrong, but did anyone else notice this? [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

:Yeah, it was even mentioned on the main page of Skyfall. I think it could definitely be a blued PPK/S based on the grip size. Can someone who knows PPKs better than I do confirm this?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:13, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

::Am I the only one who thinks that there might be a sort of shooting competition between Bond and Silva? I mean, look at the main page, where the P99 and the Flintlock pistols are. Bond is wearing the same suit, the background is the same and it's the same time of day. Just some food for thought --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 02:34, 3 August 2012 (CDT).
:::I don't think that's a P99, it could be the Glock that he has pointed at his head in the screenshot with Silva firing the Flintlock. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:24, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

Ive taken a close look at the screen cap of Ola Rapace firing the Glock and if you look close enough it appears there is a selector switch on the side, meaning it could be a genuine Glock 18. -Bravejoker

==Just seen it==
Having just seen the film, I can happily say there were plenty of gunfights and we'll be spoilt for choice when screencapping it. There were so many closeups, especially of the PPK. Here's a list of all the guns I spotted:

* Walther PPK – used by Bond (naturally), Eve and M.
* Glock 17 – used extensively by London Met, Silva and his team when disguised as police officers. Bond definitely uses one on the island; it's not a P99.
* Glock 18 – used by Patrice during the opening scene in Turkey, first fitted with a Beta-C 100-round magazine, then standard 33-round magazines.
* Possible Steyr M9 – used by Silva during the Skyfall Lodge shootout.
* M4 – used by MI6 guards.
* H&K 416 – used by Silva’s men and several by Bond during the Skyfall Lodge shootout.
* H&K MP7 – used by Silva’s men on his island.
You're welcome - --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] ([[User talk:Taurus96|talk]]) 15:20, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

:Fairly sure the pistol Silva had at the lodge was a [[Steyr M9-A1]], the shape of the frame around the rail is pretty distinctive. I think this may have also been the pistol that was used by one of the 3 bodyguards at the Macau place with the komodo dragon pit, you see it when Eve stamps on the guys arm to stop him picking it up (I think this is what happened, can't remember the exact chain of events). Also I think Patrice uses a Glock 17 during the assassination later in the film, in the shot where he removes the suppressor it has no selector on the left side of the slide. There was also a machine gun mounted on a Merlin helicopter during the climax but didn't get a clear look at it due to it being dark and the brief shots of it. My guess is that it is an M2, or possibly an M3M, based on the mounting. Also, I think we should simply say that the Anderson Wheeler 500 NE Double Rifle is used by Bond during the films climax, anything over and above that I would consider a spoiler (at least until the film is on home release and most people will have already seen it). I still have no idea what the weird sniper rifle is, it seems like it was designed so that the case itself is part of the gun (the scope is the carry handle and the long piece at the front is the front edge of the case), but I don't see the point of having a suitcase that turns into a gun when you can just carry a suitcase with a take-down rifle in it. Still, was a great film IMHO, would highly recommend. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:09, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

::Just saw the film again on Friday and, yeah, you're right it is a Steyr M9A1, I get the two mixed up. Patrice also ditches his Glock 18 when it runs empty and uses a standard 17 during the assassination scene, like you said. Also, I spotted a Tokarev on some news footage, but the footage was paused before it was fired. --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] ([[User talk:Taurus96|talk]]) 15:53, 11 November 2012 (EST)

:::Are we certain that it was an actual Glock 18 as a Glock 17 is usually just converted to fire full auto than them using an actual Glock 18. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 17:21, 11 November 2012 (EST)

::::It definitely is, the fire selector is clearly seen when it is first used. Conversely we can be relaively certain it is replaced with a Glock 17 later on as it lacks the selector (although the shot could have been flipped, I didn't look at the ejection port). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:40, 11 November 2012 (EST)

I believe the pistol used by the third bodyguard before Eve stomps on his arm was actually a Walther P99, the rear end looked pretty similar.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 19:41, 11 November 2012 (EST)

Talk:Dexter

2012-10-31T04:03:33Z

Bristow8411: /* S07 E01 */

Masuka uses a S&W 629 performance center in the bowling lanes parking lot not a colt python. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

== S06E02 ==

Is that a stainless Sig Sauer P228 or P229 that Julio is aiming at Dexter and Brother Sam?
http://i.imgur.com/gCVpT.png

Looks like a P220 or a P226 to me. The trigger guard looks to be the squared on of the P220/P226. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:21, 13 October 2011 (CDT)

== S06E05 ==

What is the gun that someone is using to shoot Brother Sam?
http://i.imgur.com/cQSWG.png
I think it might be Colt Commander.

Definitely a S&W. Looks like a 5906 to me. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 16:15, 1 November 2011 (CDT)

== S07 E01 ==

Help to ID :) [[User:Pawelm|Pawelm]] ([[User talk:Pawelm|talk]]) 17:26, 1 October 2012 (EDT)
[[Image:Dexter_s07e01_1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Dexter_s07e01_2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

I want to say either a Beretta Cougar or some S&W handgun. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 17:56, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

Fairly sure its a [[Ruger P89]] or relative. Clearest shot of it is just before he swears (or whatever he is saying in Ukranian), where you can see the diagonal step in the frame and slide at the front of the trigger guard. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:41, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

:Also, on an unrelated note, Ray Stevenson is seen firing a nickel Makarov PM in the season preview right after the credits of the first episode. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:18, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

The firearm pictured is indeed a Ruger. You see it pretty well in a later episode where it is referred to as "the exact gun" [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 00:03, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:The Walking Dead - Season 3

2012-10-18T18:00:32Z

Bristow8411: /* Questionable Production Values */

==Additional Screenshots==
[[Image:Walking dead ak.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Carol Peletier ([[Melissa McBride]]) fires the rifle from a watchtower in "Seed" (S3E01).]]
When did Carol get that gun? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:37, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
:I was wondering that too. One of the plausible explanations is that they grabbed it when raiding houses at the beginning of Season 3. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] ([[User talk:AdAstra2009|talk]]) 00:06, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Same thing with the M4A1. They didn't have it at the end of Season 2, so they most likely grabbed it when raiding houses. Same could probably be said for the Vektor CP1 as well. -- [[User: Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk: Antediluvial|talk]]) 13:53, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

== Questionable Production Values ==

Am I the only one who was just laughing their ass off at the low production values of the shootout in the prison yard? No cycling actions, no recoil, no muzzle smoke, it's un-freaking-believable. If you don't want to have to train all the actors with firearms and just CG it for time's sake, fine; but if preteens on YouTube can do a better job with VFX for free, AMC has no viable excuse for that crap. Come on, AMC...
:The budget was slashed after the first season, with some saying it was cut by 20%. (And please sign your posts.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 21:51, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
::The budget is small enough as is, I can imagine the special effects (ie makeup and the like) and locations and all that take up the majority of the budget, then they have the actors. I didn't really mind the courtyard shootout that much.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 14:00, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Chuck - Season 3

2012-10-09T02:45:16Z

Bristow8411: /* SIG and the PPK */

I think the P228s used by Chuck in the dream sequence are actually P229s, as you can see the "steps" in the slides. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:10, 21 January 2012 (CST)

== ID these weapon ==

This weapon was seen in "Chuck Versus the Tooth". Please help with the ID. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:43, 6 March 2012 (CST)
[[File:ChuckS3 69.jpg|thumb|none|760px]]
[[File:ChuckS3E16 05.jpg|thumb|none|760px]]

Hi! Its a Walther RedHawk. Freaking Germans made it. CO2 Powerd airpistole, 4,5 mm. Not one of my favorites...

Hope the Link works:

http://www.muzzle.de/N2/CO2/Walther_Red_Hawk__UMAREX_/walther_red_hawk__umarex_.html

Bye!

== Unknown Pistol ==
An unknown pistol is seen on the poster of "Sans Respirer" in Morgan's office, in "Chuck Versus The Nacho Sampler" (S3E06).
[[File:CH306 1303.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:CH306 1308.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== SIG and the PPK ==

I am looking at the etchings on the slide and I still think that the P232 is mislabeled and is indeed a PPK. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 02:02, 8 October 2012 (EDT)

[[File:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

Now compare the etching on the slide to the gun used in the show

[[File:Ppksarah.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

Whereas the P232 has the etching below the slide on the frame and near the end of the frame, the gun used in the show has etching on the slide itself right in the middle of the slide.
:That picture is of a post 2008 US made P232 slide. The German made slides and earlier US slides have the markings that are seen in that photo, along with slanted slide serrations. For example:
:[[File:SIGP232.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:It could also be the P230. In fact I think this may be the case, although you can't see the rear sight to confirm for sure, the serrations on the P232 go all the way to the ejection port, but on this there appears to be a gap like on the P230:
:[[File:SigP230SS.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]] --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:34, 8 October 2012 (EDT)

I'll admit when I appear to be wrong. I did not see those photos on the P230/P232 page. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 22:45, 8 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Chuck - Season 3

2012-10-08T06:02:12Z

Bristow8411: /* SIG and the PPK */

Talk:Chuck - Season 3

2012-10-08T06:01:52Z

Bristow8411: /* SIG and the PPK */ new section

Talk:Killing Them Softly

2012-10-03T04:25:02Z

Bristow8411: /* Coogan's automatic */

=Cogan's Mossberg 500 "Cruiser" accessories=
The foregrip looks to be a [http://www.surefire.com/illumination/weaponlights/shotgun-forend/mossberg590500.html Surefire 323 series] and the tri-rail mounted in front of it may be [http://www.laserlyte.com/products/adp-trir-140 LASERLYTE ADP-TRIR-140]. I can't tell if the tri-rail adapter is actually fastened down, in the detail below it appears to be canted off center.
:D.K. Green, the General Manager of LaserLyte, confirmed on 10/2/12 that that is indeed a LaserLyte ADP-TRIR-140 tri-rail adapter. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] ([[User talk:Bunni|talk]]) 13:47, 2 October 2012 (EDT)
[[Image:KTS-Mossberg-500-detail-production-still.jpg|608px|none]]

=Coogan's automatic=

The automatic Coogan uses in the back of the car at the traffic lights looked like a Browning High Power to me, probably a Mk. III due to the fixed sights it seemed to have. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 21:05, 2 October 2012 (EDT)
:It looked like more of a M1911 to me. I also saw a him with a Colt Detective Special.

I also think he was using a 1911 in the trailer[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 00:25, 3 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:A Perfect Murder

2012-10-02T16:55:48Z

Bristow8411:

How do you figure the Glocks are Glock 18s? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]]

([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 09:40, 2 October 2012 (EDT)The shape of the barrel and also magazine at end of handle. But it can also go on some type of Glock 17, is true ...--[[User:Pandolfini|Pandolfini]] ([[User talk:Pandolfini|talk]]) 11:57, 2 October 2012 (EDT)
:The only difference I'm aware of is the selector switch on the left side of the slide. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:32, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

I'm fairly certain the selector switch is the only difference between the Glock 17 and the Glock 18. I also can't see any police force, not even one in a film, giving their officers Glock 18 handguns as sidearms. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 12:55, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:A Perfect Murder

2012-10-02T16:55:31Z

Bristow8411:

Talk:Dexter

2012-10-01T21:56:11Z

Bristow8411: /* S07 E01 */

Talk:Resident Evil 6

2012-10-01T20:36:02Z

Bristow8411: /* Review Scores= */

Is this for real? Because the bumf we've got here sounds like a bad fanfic. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:47, 20 January 2012 (CST)

:For reals. http://worthplaying.com/article/2012/1/19/news/84815/ --[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 13:05, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Are we okay with copying and pasting Capcom's press release? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

:Why would we need to do that? The trailer's legit and we're identifying the firearms. That's pretty much where IMFDB's job ends. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:09, 20 January 2012 (CST)
::I meant the paragraph that's already there. ("Blending action and survival horror, Resident Evil 6 is the most ambitious, immersive..." ). [http://thecontrolleronline.com/2012/01/capcom-confirms-resident-evil-6/] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 16:25, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== unknown pistol ==

Could it be a hybrid of a Springfield handgun and a Glock?[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 14:13, 20 January 2012 (CST)

It looks like a Steyr M9 to me. I don't see the Springfield's resemblance here.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Smith & Wesson Sigma? --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 16:14, 21 January 2012 (CST)

I say it's either Smith & Wesson Sigma or M&P --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 20:23, 6 February 2012 (PT)

Here's a [http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4373/helensliderear.jpg screencap] of the slide rear. Definitely not a Steyr M9. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 03:29, 8 February 2012 (CST)

It looks like a H&K USP to me. gonna have to wait till the game is released.

:No way it's the USP. Although between this weapon and Leon's handgun, I'm starting to wonder if these aren't placeholder weapons - like the Hybrid Assault Rifle that turned into the SIG556 and the 1911 w/compensator that turned into the 92FS in RE5. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 14:30, 14 February 2012 (CST)

Anyone think it could be a S&W SD series pistol. --[User:Stoeger8000]

I'm leaning more towards the M&P now.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 20:15, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

Just saw a new gameplay video that Capcom released and there was a very brief moment where you could clearly see the slide profile and it looked very similar to a M&P [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 21:25, 20 June 2012 (CDT)

It'll be nice to see Capcom looking at the latest popular handgun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:59, 20 June 2012 (CDT)

== unkwnon Rifle ==

[[File:Re6ar2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

in my humble opinion is an ACR rifle iron sight with an unknown, similar to m4a1 / G36, the stock is identical to the ACR and the MAGAZINE appears to be 5.56.

[[File:Bushmasteracrentry.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

comparative picture

[[File:Acrsogsl.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Look: The pistol does not seem to be a sig p226?

Link:[http://criticorevoltado.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/acrsogsl.jpg]

:Stock, yes. Everything else, no. And it's a magazine, not a clip. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:25, 21 January 2012 (CST)

:: Looks like a composite rifle. Front end looks like a micro-Galil, stock from ACR or Scar, cocking lever from FAMAS, rails from G36C. That cocking lever is kind of a sore point as it rules out a lot of guns no matter how much they customised it. Remember the AR in resident evil 5 was also a fictional composite rifle in previews until they changed it to a SIG556. --[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 17:35, 21 January 2012 (CST)
::: the charging handle looks a bit SPAS-15? but this gun sure as hell ain't a shotgun though, as seen in the trailer[[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)
:::: The stock is definitely an ACR's, and the receiver looks kind of like a mashup, but in the first picture, I think it most closely resembles an ACR's.

It was RE5 actually and it could be subjected to change, but the game comes out this year on November, so who knows. This isn't like an early teaser trailer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:30, 21 January 2012 (CST)
:why mention RE5...? [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)

::I would like to ACR and with a grenade launcher, I'm sick of the same weapons in racoon city operation to weapons like the M416 and they put Scar, was nonsense of course but it was far more options, they could put a FABARM FP6 and an SR-25 would be balanced and different compared to previous ones. (Sorry if it was not clear, I am Brazilian and I speak little English).
:I think you should write to capcom or whichever studio develop the game to address this... [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)

Fabarm Fp6 :D
[[File:Fabarm Sdass tactical -1-.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
SR-25
[[File:SR25.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

==VP-70==
I doubt Leon's pistol is a bona fide HK VP-70. [http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8394/leonpistolleft.jpg Screenshot of left side] The cut of the slide front, plus what seems to be some sort of accessory groove look a lot like a PX4 or a P99. No matter what it is, however - those cuts are completely uncharacteristic of a VP-70, which is somewhat rounded. [http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2844/leontrigger.jpg Trigger area screenshot] there's a trigger pivot pin missing on the VP-70, a conspicuous disassembly catch (which the VP-70 has) and diagonal cocking serrations, which the VP lacks. It's probably another Capcom hybrid gun. Sorry about crappy screenshot resolution, by the way.
--[[User:John 234|John 234]] 03:29, 8 February 2012 (CST)

Think they gave Leon the new PPQ? Which depending on where this game takes place in the RE series could be badly anachronistic (not that they care, look at ORC) --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 04:10, 8 February 2012 (CST)
:It's after RE5.-protoAuthor 18:35, 14 February 2012 (CST)

Grip texture looks different, plus it looks like there's no front cocking serrations. I wish Capcom didn't do so many bizarre hybrid concept designs. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 16:15, 10 February 2012 (CST)

:I think the Trigger screenshot is not leon's gun.-protoAuthor 18:35, 14 February 2012 (CST)

I thought it would be a good idea of posting [http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120121022314/residentevil/images/0/02/Dual_Weild.png this picture] here rather than on the front page. Sorry for the bad quality. As you can see, Leon appears to be dual weilding what looks like his VP-70 but I can't be sure about the pistol in his left hand (right side of the screen). --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 21:53, 15 February 2012 (CST)

I've never understood Capcom's fascination with giving Leon the VP70. When RE2 came out it may have made a little sense as the VP70 had been out of production for less than a decade but was still probably in gun shop circulation. But here we are, the game timeline is now entering 2013 (assumed until the game is released or a trailer explicitly reveals a date) and they are still giving him the VP70 (maybe, maybe not)??? RE4 takes place in 2004, six years after the events of Raccoon. Leon is just starting his Secret Service career and even on his first assignment he has a customized 9mm (the Silver Ghost). Now he's a top-tier agent and still might be using a pistol that hasn't been produced in almost a quarter of a century? Come on....anyways, rant over. Not a lot went right tonight and I've had a bit to drink. Still looking forward to this game a ton, even if the weapons arrangements have me perplexed. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 04:23, 17 February 2012 (CST)

Maybe the Silver Ghost was Leon's issued weapon when he was Secret Service. If not, people can have a change of perferences over time. If it turns out to be a VP70, it's just a call back to RE2 really. In RE2, the VP70 could have just been his personal carry gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:01, 20 June 2012 (CDT)

I miss the old days when they tried to make Leon's signature handgun the Desert Eagle lol for those of you that remember Leon's endgame pic in RE2 and the first trailer they had for the second version of RE4 you know what I mean. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 23:59, 20 June 2012 (PST)

Though the Desert Eagle is available in both games so it wasn't like they cut it out. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:09, 21 June 2012 (CDT)

Though realistically, we can forgive the RE creators because they live in a country where handgun ownership is prohibited and it isn't like they have a good gun culture. So if they tag a main character with a Desert Eagle, there is some leeway unlike say Modern Warfare 3 where Captain Price had a Desert Eagle as his sidearm [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:10, 21 June 2012 (CDT)

No I know about the Desert Eagle still being in the series. Always was my favorite magnum in the games. But I mean cutscene wise lol. I'm hoping with the improved graphics of RE6 we can pick which handgun our characters will pull XD But that's probably asking for too much. Though the fact that the characters have guns in cutscenes has shown that RE has come along way. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 14:51, 21 June 2012 (PST)

A Desert Eagle actually isn't a "magnum". Anyway, why couldn't they do that in RE6 since we see other games do that [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:40, 21 June 2012 (CDT)

Probably because it's one of those things the developers would consider to be a "little detail" something they think no one would care to notice so don't bother with it. Like how IW had player models in MP carry secondary weapons on their back even if it's a pistol and Treyarch in Black Ops actually had small weapons like the pistols not show on the back when not in use. Not sure if that last part made sense. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:01, 22 June 2012 (PST)

You consider recent games like Max Payne 3 and Mass Effect 3 show cutscenes with your selected gun in it, how hard can it be? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

No you're right, I didn't mean to refer to all games. There are some developers willing to go that not so extra mile. And I'm glad you reminded me of Max Payne 3. I had to juggle my weapons around to make sure the one I want to see in cutscenes was in the I think the left shoulder holster, that way Max always draws it in cutscenes lol[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 12:08, 22 June 2012 (PST)

Though it was kinda weird that even cutscene in Max Payne 3, we see him switch from whatever long arm you had him using to the pistol every time. Anyway, I don't think Capcom will go the extra mile in having cutscenes with the character holding the gun you want them to hold even though in the previous game, whatever outfit you want them to wear is present. I guess it was easier that way. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:51, 22 June 2012 (CDT)

Well if it came down to it. I'd rather take every bonus costume being seen in the cutscenes over choosing what weapons I want in the cutscenes. I always loved that part of RE5. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 18:15, 22 June 2012 (PST)

Being an extreme fan of the games, I perhaps can help shed some light (or at least a decent opinion) on this issue. According to canon (which is legitimized by the S.D Perry novels), Leon's first actual gun was supposed to be the Desert Eagle .50. The RCPD (Raccoon City Police Department) had left the Beretta M92FS (which prior to RE3 and the remake was the standard issue S.T.A.R.S handgun)and instead switched to the HKVP 70 for its high ammunition capacity and the Browning HP for its reliable stopping power. Once working for the United States Secret Service, Leon could have been issued the Silver Ghost during his mission in Spain. Perhaps once he completed the mission (and the ones afterwards in the films Degeneration and the upcoming film) he felt that his HKVP 70 was a more reliable sidearm and thus went back to it. Personally I love this handgun and am attempting to purchase one someday (it is also used in Aliens which is my favorite movie). I am very happy that they brought this weapon back, and wish they didn't bring in all these composite weapons.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 22:19, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

I don't believe that the SD Perry novels have been confirmed as Canon as they introduce certain elements that have never shown up in the games. But I'd say your explanation makes sense.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 00:16, 27 September 2012 (EDT)

@Bristow8411: Thinking again, I could agree that the S.D Perry novels are not completely licensed by Capcom (Ill have to check my books again), but the Desert Eagle can be inferred as a good reference for the timeline because the Airsoft Version by Tokyo Mauri is specifically designed as the model that Leon uses in the game, and while the VP70 is mainly used in the campaign they decided to make that version of the weapon so I would infer that the assumption is close to correct. Thanks for the understanding, in this game series with the plot holes and inaccuracies it is up to the consensus of the fan base.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 14:43, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

== H&K UMP9 ==

[[File:Hk ump9.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

[[File:Re6mp5.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

The overall shape of the receiver is more like a UMP than an MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:10, 15 February 2012 (CST)

== Timeline Inconsistency ==
Not really a discussion on the guns but does anyone else notice the timeline issue with RE6? I mean RE5 took place in 2009 and the opening for RE6's trailer says 10 years after Raccoon City, which would make it 2008. And I find it hard to imagine that this game is intended as a prequel to 5. Since these seem to be pretty catastrophic world events which I find it hard to fail to mention in RE5's timeline histories. --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 23:57, 15 February 2012 (PT)

According to the newest Game Informer, which is usually pretty reliable, the game takes place after RE5 as the details release to GI by Capcom mention Wesker's death and a couple of other specifics. I'm going with that it's set after RE5. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:04, 16 February 2012 (CST)

I figured as much but that opening bit did throw me off. Somewhere in the back of my head Capcom was thinking 2018 but added up the years wrong. --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 01:39, 16 February 2012 (PT)

According to the Resident Evil Wikia, the game takes place in 2013. But you are right, the Capcom official description does state that this game takes place ten years after Raccoon's fall.--[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 18:35, 16 February 2012 (CST)

This game take place Ten years after whats i think is called the Raccoon City trials which is when the fall of Umbrella happened--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] 10:06, 17 February 2012 (CST)

Capcom has in fact corrected their mistakes with the earlier timeline release. the game is set in 2013, 10 years after the Raccoon City Trials.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 15:07, 17 February 2012 (CST)

Well they would have to have enough years to pass by otherwise, Sherry would be too young to be a playable character. According to the wikia, she was born in 86. She'd be 25/26 when the game starts [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:42, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

== Weapons from new media ==

Some close-ups of the guns if anyone can identify them. Click the screens for hi-res versions

http://uk.ign.com/images/games/resident-evil-6-pc-126859/3625313
http://uk.ign.com/images/games/resident-evil-6-pc-126859/3625332
http://uk.ign.com/images/games/resident-evil-6-pc-126859/3625334
http://uk.ign.com/images/games/resident-evil-6-pc-126859/3625331

[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 11:14, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

On the newest E3 trailer I know I saw Leon dual wielding a pair of VP70s (why that gun I can't fathom). And shoulder firing that 20mm rifle? Ok..... --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 00:04, 9 June 2012 (CDT)

Some of those guns look somewhat fictional to me or could be Capcom's "Combo" guns, they have a habit of making their own guns by mashing up several together. Two of which I can identify, a 1911 styled pistol, possibly a Kimber Warrior and the Sniper looks similar to the Steyr Scout in Counter Strike with the exception of the custom stock. I say this because of shape of the weapon looks very similar to how the Scout looks in Counter Strike. Though it could be any sniper rifle really. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:04, 9 June 2012 (CDT)

== Weapon list & new footage ==

The demo has all the weapons still in it. It's not a very exciting line-up. Brackets are my guesses.

Hand-To-Hand, Nine-Oh-Nine (909) (Jake & Chris's gun), Picador (Helena's gun), Wing Shooter (Leon's VP70), Shotgun (Possibly M870 with wire stock), Assault Shotgun (M1014 or FN TPS?), Hydra (RE5 sawn-off), Lightning Hawk (Deagle), Elephant Killer (M500), Sniper Rifle, Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle (Remington MSR), Anti-Material Rifle (NTW-20), Triple Shot (Sherry's gun), MP-AF, Assault Rifle for Special Tactics (Composite rifle), Bear Commander (Another composite with AG36 launcher), Assault Rifle RN (an AK), Grenade Launcher (an ARWEN?), Hand Grenade, Incendiary Grenade, Flash Grenade, Remote Bomb, Crossbow, Survival Knife, Combat Knife, Stun Rod (Sherry's knife)

Here's a vid showing a few off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TRu_VrHQgo [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 05:09, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

I really cannot wait for this game to get here. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 16:10, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Elephant Killer ==

This revolver is indeed the S&W500 as in the demo, you can bust open a crate to find 500S&W rounds.

The one in the game is a break action though, is the S&W500 a break action revolver ? Or is this new revolver just using the same ammo as it.
I think the S&W500 will return as the handcannon. - Joey1666

I did not realize it's a break action revolver. Hmm. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 19:59, 15 July 2012 (CDT)

Well, the model shown in the caps is essentially this one:

[[File:S&W500.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

But it's clearly not a break-action revolver, which means they've made some sort of composite out of it. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 12:34, 17 July 2012 (CDT)

== Sherry's rifle ==

In the article, the rifle is (acknowledged) to be mistakenly identified as a Remington MSR due to the magazine latch. Is it possible that the rifle is an Accuracy International AX variant?

[[File:AX338.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
(That's the .338 variant of the AX rifle, for reference) --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 12:35, 16 July 2012 (CDT)

If you pay attention to the stock, it's retractable like on an M14 EBR type [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 12:03, 16 July 2012 (CDT)

I think there's a chance that more of the guns are composites. The M500, Helena's M&P, Pier's UMP9, the bolt-action sniper all have elements of other guns in them. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 05:32, 17 July 2012 (CDT)

I agree with the composite idea, since it seems several of the guns are horrible amalgamations of popular weapons. At first glance, though, the rifle struck me more as an AX. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 09:52, 17 July 2012 (CDT)

:Plus it's capcom we're talking here and they have forever been known to make composites of multiple types of guns like the Silver Ghost for example. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 07:00, 18 July 2012 (CDT)
::True, but all the other guns in the passed games were not combo guns. They got special sci fi guns but look at RE5 and aside from maybe the PG shotgun you get at the beginning, it doesn't have any combo guns, in fact, they even used the real names in the game. So judging from ALL their games, they have the money to acquire the rights to print the gun's names in the games, except for RE4, which uses fake names but the guns were all for the most part, modeled after the real steel. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:16, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

== Weapon Names ==

Downloaded the demo to my 360. Got the names of the weapons available in the demo and added them into the descriptions here along with any special features. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 09:07, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

= Review Scores==
Has anyone had the chance to see the reviews for this game? GT 9.8, IGN 7.9, Gamespot 4.5!!!! I am shocked and amazed at these scores. I didnt expect this game to drop below the 7 mark in any rating. Funny thing is how the Leon campaign across the board is the most popular and fun (maybe Capcom should think and listen next time to the fan base?). What do you think? --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 14:50, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

Considering Gamespot seems somewhat biased (the reviewer took off points for too many cutscenes but gave MGS4 a 10/10) and I just really don't trust reviews all that often, it's not that big of a deal. As the demo was apparently pretty representational of the full game, chances are if you liked the demo you'll like the game and vice versa [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 16:36, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Hawaii Five-0 (2010) - Season 3

2012-09-28T05:12:30Z

Bristow8411: /* ID Firearms */

== Chin's sidearm ==

When Chin is in the parking structure walking towards Delano firing his pistol the silohette looked more like a HK P30 rather than a SIG P229. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 15:14, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
[[File:H50S3E01 09.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:I agree it's a strange shot, but that's definitely a P229.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 16:59, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:: I stand corrected. It was the rail that made me think it was a P30 because I didn't think the P229's rail cuts were as deep as the P30. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 17:27, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
I thought they would have given Chin the new model of the P229. Guess not [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 01:12, 28 September 2012 (EDT)

==ID Firearms==
Please help ID these firearms. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 20:15, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
[[File:H50S3E01 149.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 133.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 136.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 143.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 145.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Definitely a Springfield XD Compact (not sure if that's the proper name or not), maybe a Kahr variant, and not sure. When I saw it when it aired it looked like an HK of some sort (P30 or P2000), but that trigger guard looks very Walther PPQ-ish.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 23:06, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

Catherine: Definitely an XD, pretty sure a Service rather than a Compact but only about 75% sure. Basing belief on how her Inglis looked in [[Combat Hospital]]; Catherine's BUG/Doris' gun: Not sure, but doesn't look like any Kahr I've seen; Wo Fat: Walther PPQ. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 00:17, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
::I think that Catherine's is either an XD or a Taurus PT 24/7 --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 10:20, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:::Wo Fat's gun doesn't appear to have front serrations. I think more likely an HKP2000. Could Catherine's BUG be a SIG P224 subcompact? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 15:02, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
::::I'm about 90% sure that Wo Fat's is an HKP2000- you can see a bobbed hammer in one shot and I doubt that they would have the villain carry the same gun as a protagonist.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 16:28, 27 September 2012 (EDT)

[[File:SIGP224Sub.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]

::::The ejection port looks too big and the slide looks shorter than the P224 to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 18:47, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:::::That ejection port doesn't look like the P220 series. However, that muzzle looks SIG-ish to me. Maybe a P238?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 16:28, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
::::::Could be, the front sight looks very SIG-ish to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 16:44, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
The front of Catherine's BUG does indeed look very SIG-ish. For Wo Fat I'd have to agree with the HKP2000, it looks about right[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 01:12, 28 September 2012 (EDT)

== Episode 1 corrections officer sniper ==

I don't think that is a Mk. 14 Mod 1 EBR, first of all there is a gap between the gas block and the front sight, and also it appears to have a regular heatshield rather than a quad rail handguard. My guess is that it is something like a Springfield M1A Scout Squad, but with a regular scope rather than something on the scout rail. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:49, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
[[File:Springfield M1A scout.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Springfield Armory M1A Scout Squad - 7.62x51mm]]

Talk:Hawaii Five-0 (2010) - Season 3

2012-09-28T05:12:13Z

Bristow8411: /* Chin's sidearm */

== Chin's sidearm ==

When Chin is in the parking structure walking towards Delano firing his pistol the silohette looked more like a HK P30 rather than a SIG P229. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 15:14, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
[[File:H50S3E01 09.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:I agree it's a strange shot, but that's definitely a P229.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 16:59, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:: I stand corrected. It was the rail that made me think it was a P30 because I didn't think the P229's rail cuts were as deep as the P30. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 17:27, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
I thought they would have given Chin the new model of the P229. Guess not [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 01:12, 28 September 2012 (EDT)

==ID Firearms==
Please help ID these firearms. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 20:15, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
[[File:H50S3E01 149.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 133.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 136.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 143.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 145.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Definitely a Springfield XD Compact (not sure if that's the proper name or not), maybe a Kahr variant, and not sure. When I saw it when it aired it looked like an HK of some sort (P30 or P2000), but that trigger guard looks very Walther PPQ-ish.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 23:06, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

Catherine: Definitely an XD, pretty sure a Service rather than a Compact but only about 75% sure. Basing belief on how her Inglis looked in [[Combat Hospital]]; Catherine's BUG/Doris' gun: Not sure, but doesn't look like any Kahr I've seen; Wo Fat: Walther PPQ. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 00:17, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
::I think that Catherine's is either an XD or a Taurus PT 24/7 --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 10:20, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:::Wo Fat's gun doesn't appear to have front serrations. I think more likely an HKP2000. Could Catherine's BUG be a SIG P224 subcompact? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 15:02, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
::::I'm about 90% sure that Wo Fat's is an HKP2000- you can see a bobbed hammer in one shot and I doubt that they would have the villain carry the same gun as a protagonist.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 16:28, 27 September 2012 (EDT)

[[File:SIGP224Sub.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]

::::The ejection port looks too big and the slide looks shorter than the P224 to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 18:47, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:::::That ejection port doesn't look like the P220 series. However, that muzzle looks SIG-ish to me. Maybe a P238?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 16:28, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
::::::Could be, the front sight looks very SIG-ish to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 16:44, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
The front of Catherine's BUG does indeed look very SIG-ish. For Wo Fat I'd have to agree with the HKP2000, it looks about right

== Episode 1 corrections officer sniper ==

I don't think that is a Mk. 14 Mod 1 EBR, first of all there is a gap between the gas block and the front sight, and also it appears to have a regular heatshield rather than a quad rail handguard. My guess is that it is something like a Springfield M1A Scout Squad, but with a regular scope rather than something on the scout rail. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:49, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
[[File:Springfield M1A scout.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Springfield Armory M1A Scout Squad - 7.62x51mm]]

Talk:Hawaii Five-0 (2010) - Season 3

2012-09-28T05:11:17Z

Bristow8411: /* ID Firearms */

== Chin's sidearm ==

When Chin is in the parking structure walking towards Delano firing his pistol the silohette looked more like a HK P30 rather than a SIG P229. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 15:14, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
[[File:H50S3E01 09.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:I agree it's a strange shot, but that's definitely a P229.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 16:59, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:: I stand corrected. It was the rail that made me think it was a P30 because I didn't think the P229's rail cuts were as deep as the P30. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 17:27, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

==ID Firearms==
Please help ID these firearms. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 20:15, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
[[File:H50S3E01 149.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 133.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 136.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 143.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:H50S3E01 145.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Definitely a Springfield XD Compact (not sure if that's the proper name or not), maybe a Kahr variant, and not sure. When I saw it when it aired it looked like an HK of some sort (P30 or P2000), but that trigger guard looks very Walther PPQ-ish.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 23:06, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

Catherine: Definitely an XD, pretty sure a Service rather than a Compact but only about 75% sure. Basing belief on how her Inglis looked in [[Combat Hospital]]; Catherine's BUG/Doris' gun: Not sure, but doesn't look like any Kahr I've seen; Wo Fat: Walther PPQ. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 00:17, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
::I think that Catherine's is either an XD or a Taurus PT 24/7 --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 10:20, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:::Wo Fat's gun doesn't appear to have front serrations. I think more likely an HKP2000. Could Catherine's BUG be a SIG P224 subcompact? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 15:02, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
::::I'm about 90% sure that Wo Fat's is an HKP2000- you can see a bobbed hammer in one shot and I doubt that they would have the villain carry the same gun as a protagonist.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 16:28, 27 September 2012 (EDT)

[[File:SIGP224Sub.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]

::::The ejection port looks too big and the slide looks shorter than the P224 to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 18:47, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:::::That ejection port doesn't look like the P220 series. However, that muzzle looks SIG-ish to me. Maybe a P238?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 16:28, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
::::::Could be, the front sight looks very SIG-ish to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 16:44, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
The front of Catherine's BUG does indeed look very SIG-ish. For Wo Fat I'd have to agree with the HKP2000, it looks about right

== Episode 1 corrections officer sniper ==

I don't think that is a Mk. 14 Mod 1 EBR, first of all there is a gap between the gas block and the front sight, and also it appears to have a regular heatshield rather than a quad rail handguard. My guess is that it is something like a Springfield M1A Scout Squad, but with a regular scope rather than something on the scout rail. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:49, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
[[File:Springfield M1A scout.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Springfield Armory M1A Scout Squad - 7.62x51mm]]

Talk:Resident Evil 6

2012-09-27T04:16:09Z

Bristow8411: /* VP-70 */

Is this for real? Because the bumf we've got here sounds like a bad fanfic. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:47, 20 January 2012 (CST)

:For reals. http://worthplaying.com/article/2012/1/19/news/84815/ --[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 13:05, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Are we okay with copying and pasting Capcom's press release? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

:Why would we need to do that? The trailer's legit and we're identifying the firearms. That's pretty much where IMFDB's job ends. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:09, 20 January 2012 (CST)
::I meant the paragraph that's already there. ("Blending action and survival horror, Resident Evil 6 is the most ambitious, immersive..." ). [http://thecontrolleronline.com/2012/01/capcom-confirms-resident-evil-6/] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 16:25, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== unknown pistol ==

Could it be a hybrid of a Springfield handgun and a Glock?[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 14:13, 20 January 2012 (CST)

It looks like a Steyr M9 to me. I don't see the Springfield's resemblance here.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Smith & Wesson Sigma? --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 16:14, 21 January 2012 (CST)

I say it's either Smith & Wesson Sigma or M&P --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 20:23, 6 February 2012 (PT)

Here's a [http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4373/helensliderear.jpg screencap] of the slide rear. Definitely not a Steyr M9. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 03:29, 8 February 2012 (CST)

It looks like a H&K USP to me. gonna have to wait till the game is released.

:No way it's the USP. Although between this weapon and Leon's handgun, I'm starting to wonder if these aren't placeholder weapons - like the Hybrid Assault Rifle that turned into the SIG556 and the 1911 w/compensator that turned into the 92FS in RE5. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 14:30, 14 February 2012 (CST)

Anyone think it could be a S&W SD series pistol. --[User:Stoeger8000]

I'm leaning more towards the M&P now.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 20:15, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

Just saw a new gameplay video that Capcom released and there was a very brief moment where you could clearly see the slide profile and it looked very similar to a M&P [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 21:25, 20 June 2012 (CDT)

It'll be nice to see Capcom looking at the latest popular handgun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:59, 20 June 2012 (CDT)

== unkwnon Rifle ==

[[File:Re6ar2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

in my humble opinion is an ACR rifle iron sight with an unknown, similar to m4a1 / G36, the stock is identical to the ACR and the MAGAZINE appears to be 5.56.

[[File:Bushmasteracrentry.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

comparative picture

[[File:Acrsogsl.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Look: The pistol does not seem to be a sig p226?

Link:[http://criticorevoltado.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/acrsogsl.jpg]

:Stock, yes. Everything else, no. And it's a magazine, not a clip. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:25, 21 January 2012 (CST)

:: Looks like a composite rifle. Front end looks like a micro-Galil, stock from ACR or Scar, cocking lever from FAMAS, rails from G36C. That cocking lever is kind of a sore point as it rules out a lot of guns no matter how much they customised it. Remember the AR in resident evil 5 was also a fictional composite rifle in previews until they changed it to a SIG556. --[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 17:35, 21 January 2012 (CST)
::: the charging handle looks a bit SPAS-15? but this gun sure as hell ain't a shotgun though, as seen in the trailer[[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)
:::: The stock is definitely an ACR's, and the receiver looks kind of like a mashup, but in the first picture, I think it most closely resembles an ACR's.

It was RE5 actually and it could be subjected to change, but the game comes out this year on November, so who knows. This isn't like an early teaser trailer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:30, 21 January 2012 (CST)
:why mention RE5...? [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)

::I would like to ACR and with a grenade launcher, I'm sick of the same weapons in racoon city operation to weapons like the M416 and they put Scar, was nonsense of course but it was far more options, they could put a FABARM FP6 and an SR-25 would be balanced and different compared to previous ones. (Sorry if it was not clear, I am Brazilian and I speak little English).
:I think you should write to capcom or whichever studio develop the game to address this... [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)

Fabarm Fp6 :D
[[File:Fabarm Sdass tactical -1-.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
SR-25
[[File:SR25.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

==VP-70==
I doubt Leon's pistol is a bona fide HK VP-70. [http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8394/leonpistolleft.jpg Screenshot of left side] The cut of the slide front, plus what seems to be some sort of accessory groove look a lot like a PX4 or a P99. No matter what it is, however - those cuts are completely uncharacteristic of a VP-70, which is somewhat rounded. [http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2844/leontrigger.jpg Trigger area screenshot] there's a trigger pivot pin missing on the VP-70, a conspicuous disassembly catch (which the VP-70 has) and diagonal cocking serrations, which the VP lacks. It's probably another Capcom hybrid gun. Sorry about crappy screenshot resolution, by the way.
--[[User:John 234|John 234]] 03:29, 8 February 2012 (CST)

Think they gave Leon the new PPQ? Which depending on where this game takes place in the RE series could be badly anachronistic (not that they care, look at ORC) --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 04:10, 8 February 2012 (CST)
:It's after RE5.-protoAuthor 18:35, 14 February 2012 (CST)

Grip texture looks different, plus it looks like there's no front cocking serrations. I wish Capcom didn't do so many bizarre hybrid concept designs. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 16:15, 10 February 2012 (CST)

:I think the Trigger screenshot is not leon's gun.-protoAuthor 18:35, 14 February 2012 (CST)

I thought it would be a good idea of posting [http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120121022314/residentevil/images/0/02/Dual_Weild.png this picture] here rather than on the front page. Sorry for the bad quality. As you can see, Leon appears to be dual weilding what looks like his VP-70 but I can't be sure about the pistol in his left hand (right side of the screen). --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 21:53, 15 February 2012 (CST)

I've never understood Capcom's fascination with giving Leon the VP70. When RE2 came out it may have made a little sense as the VP70 had been out of production for less than a decade but was still probably in gun shop circulation. But here we are, the game timeline is now entering 2013 (assumed until the game is released or a trailer explicitly reveals a date) and they are still giving him the VP70 (maybe, maybe not)??? RE4 takes place in 2004, six years after the events of Raccoon. Leon is just starting his Secret Service career and even on his first assignment he has a customized 9mm (the Silver Ghost). Now he's a top-tier agent and still might be using a pistol that hasn't been produced in almost a quarter of a century? Come on....anyways, rant over. Not a lot went right tonight and I've had a bit to drink. Still looking forward to this game a ton, even if the weapons arrangements have me perplexed. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 04:23, 17 February 2012 (CST)

Maybe the Silver Ghost was Leon's issued weapon when he was Secret Service. If not, people can have a change of perferences over time. If it turns out to be a VP70, it's just a call back to RE2 really. In RE2, the VP70 could have just been his personal carry gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:01, 20 June 2012 (CDT)

I miss the old days when they tried to make Leon's signature handgun the Desert Eagle lol for those of you that remember Leon's endgame pic in RE2 and the first trailer they had for the second version of RE4 you know what I mean. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 23:59, 20 June 2012 (PST)

Though the Desert Eagle is available in both games so it wasn't like they cut it out. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:09, 21 June 2012 (CDT)

Though realistically, we can forgive the RE creators because they live in a country where handgun ownership is prohibited and it isn't like they have a good gun culture. So if they tag a main character with a Desert Eagle, there is some leeway unlike say Modern Warfare 3 where Captain Price had a Desert Eagle as his sidearm [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:10, 21 June 2012 (CDT)

No I know about the Desert Eagle still being in the series. Always was my favorite magnum in the games. But I mean cutscene wise lol. I'm hoping with the improved graphics of RE6 we can pick which handgun our characters will pull XD But that's probably asking for too much. Though the fact that the characters have guns in cutscenes has shown that RE has come along way. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 14:51, 21 June 2012 (PST)

A Desert Eagle actually isn't a "magnum". Anyway, why couldn't they do that in RE6 since we see other games do that [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:40, 21 June 2012 (CDT)

Probably because it's one of those things the developers would consider to be a "little detail" something they think no one would care to notice so don't bother with it. Like how IW had player models in MP carry secondary weapons on their back even if it's a pistol and Treyarch in Black Ops actually had small weapons like the pistols not show on the back when not in use. Not sure if that last part made sense. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:01, 22 June 2012 (PST)

You consider recent games like Max Payne 3 and Mass Effect 3 show cutscenes with your selected gun in it, how hard can it be? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

No you're right, I didn't mean to refer to all games. There are some developers willing to go that not so extra mile. And I'm glad you reminded me of Max Payne 3. I had to juggle my weapons around to make sure the one I want to see in cutscenes was in the I think the left shoulder holster, that way Max always draws it in cutscenes lol[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 12:08, 22 June 2012 (PST)

Though it was kinda weird that even cutscene in Max Payne 3, we see him switch from whatever long arm you had him using to the pistol every time. Anyway, I don't think Capcom will go the extra mile in having cutscenes with the character holding the gun you want them to hold even though in the previous game, whatever outfit you want them to wear is present. I guess it was easier that way. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:51, 22 June 2012 (CDT)

Well if it came down to it. I'd rather take every bonus costume being seen in the cutscenes over choosing what weapons I want in the cutscenes. I always loved that part of RE5. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 18:15, 22 June 2012 (PST)

Being an extreme fan of the games, I perhaps can help shed some light (or at least a decent opinion) on this issue. According to canon (which is legitimized by the S.D Perry novels), Leon's first actual gun was supposed to be the Desert Eagle .50. The RCPD (Raccoon City Police Department) had left the Beretta M92FS (which prior to RE3 and the remake was the standard issue S.T.A.R.S handgun)and instead switched to the HKVP 70 for its high ammunition capacity and the Browning HP for its reliable stopping power. Once working for the United States Secret Service, Leon could have been issued the Silver Ghost during his mission in Spain. Perhaps once he completed the mission (and the ones afterwards in the films Degeneration and the upcoming film) he felt that his HKVP 70 was a more reliable sidearm and thus went back to it. Personally I love this handgun and am attempting to purchase one someday (it is also used in Aliens which is my favorite movie). I am very happy that they brought this weapon back, and wish they didn't bring in all these composite weapons.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 22:19, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

I don't believe that the SD Perry novels have been confirmed as Canon as they introduce certain elements that have never shown up in the games. But I'd say your explanation makes sense.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 00:16, 27 September 2012 (EDT)

== H&K UMP9 ==

[[File:Hk ump9.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

[[File:Re6mp5.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

The overall shape of the receiver is more like a UMP than an MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:10, 15 February 2012 (CST)

== Timeline Inconsistency ==
Not really a discussion on the guns but does anyone else notice the timeline issue with RE6? I mean RE5 took place in 2009 and the opening for RE6's trailer says 10 years after Raccoon City, which would make it 2008. And I find it hard to imagine that this game is intended as a prequel to 5. Since these seem to be pretty catastrophic world events which I find it hard to fail to mention in RE5's timeline histories. --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 23:57, 15 February 2012 (PT)

According to the newest Game Informer, which is usually pretty reliable, the game takes place after RE5 as the details release to GI by Capcom mention Wesker's death and a couple of other specifics. I'm going with that it's set after RE5. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:04, 16 February 2012 (CST)

I figured as much but that opening bit did throw me off. Somewhere in the back of my head Capcom was thinking 2018 but added up the years wrong. --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 01:39, 16 February 2012 (PT)

According to the Resident Evil Wikia, the game takes place in 2013. But you are right, the Capcom official description does state that this game takes place ten years after Raccoon's fall.--[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 18:35, 16 February 2012 (CST)

This game take place Ten years after whats i think is called the Raccoon City trials which is when the fall of Umbrella happened--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] 10:06, 17 February 2012 (CST)

Capcom has in fact corrected their mistakes with the earlier timeline release. the game is set in 2013, 10 years after the Raccoon City Trials.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 15:07, 17 February 2012 (CST)

Well they would have to have enough years to pass by otherwise, Sherry would be too young to be a playable character. According to the wikia, she was born in 86. She'd be 25/26 when the game starts [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:42, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

== Weapons from new media ==

Some close-ups of the guns if anyone can identify them. Click the screens for hi-res versions

http://uk.ign.com/images/games/resident-evil-6-pc-126859/3625313
http://uk.ign.com/images/games/resident-evil-6-pc-126859/3625332
http://uk.ign.com/images/games/resident-evil-6-pc-126859/3625334
http://uk.ign.com/images/games/resident-evil-6-pc-126859/3625331

[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 11:14, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

On the newest E3 trailer I know I saw Leon dual wielding a pair of VP70s (why that gun I can't fathom). And shoulder firing that 20mm rifle? Ok..... --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 00:04, 9 June 2012 (CDT)

Some of those guns look somewhat fictional to me or could be Capcom's "Combo" guns, they have a habit of making their own guns by mashing up several together. Two of which I can identify, a 1911 styled pistol, possibly a Kimber Warrior and the Sniper looks similar to the Steyr Scout in Counter Strike with the exception of the custom stock. I say this because of shape of the weapon looks very similar to how the Scout looks in Counter Strike. Though it could be any sniper rifle really. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:04, 9 June 2012 (CDT)

== Weapon list & new footage ==

The demo has all the weapons still in it. It's not a very exciting line-up. Brackets are my guesses.

Hand-To-Hand, Nine-Oh-Nine (909) (Jake & Chris's gun), Picador (Helena's gun), Wing Shooter (Leon's VP70), Shotgun (Possibly M870 with wire stock), Assault Shotgun (M1014 or FN TPS?), Hydra (RE5 sawn-off), Lightning Hawk (Deagle), Elephant Killer (M500), Sniper Rifle, Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle (Remington MSR), Anti-Material Rifle (NTW-20), Triple Shot (Sherry's gun), MP-AF, Assault Rifle for Special Tactics (Composite rifle), Bear Commander (Another composite with AG36 launcher), Assault Rifle RN (an AK), Grenade Launcher (an ARWEN?), Hand Grenade, Incendiary Grenade, Flash Grenade, Remote Bomb, Crossbow, Survival Knife, Combat Knife, Stun Rod (Sherry's knife)

Here's a vid showing a few off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TRu_VrHQgo [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 05:09, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

I really cannot wait for this game to get here. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 16:10, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Elephant Killer ==

This revolver is indeed the S&W500 as in the demo, you can bust open a crate to find 500S&W rounds.

The one in the game is a break action though, is the S&W500 a break action revolver ? Or is this new revolver just using the same ammo as it.
I think the S&W500 will return as the handcannon. - Joey1666

I did not realize it's a break action revolver. Hmm. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 19:59, 15 July 2012 (CDT)

Well, the model shown in the caps is essentially this one:

[[File:S&W500.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

But it's clearly not a break-action revolver, which means they've made some sort of composite out of it. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 12:34, 17 July 2012 (CDT)

== Sherry's rifle ==

In the article, the rifle is (acknowledged) to be mistakenly identified as a Remington MSR due to the magazine latch. Is it possible that the rifle is an Accuracy International AX variant?

[[File:AX338.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
(That's the .338 variant of the AX rifle, for reference) --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 12:35, 16 July 2012 (CDT)

If you pay attention to the stock, it's retractable like on an M14 EBR type [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 12:03, 16 July 2012 (CDT)

I think there's a chance that more of the guns are composites. The M500, Helena's M&P, Pier's UMP9, the bolt-action sniper all have elements of other guns in them. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 05:32, 17 July 2012 (CDT)

I agree with the composite idea, since it seems several of the guns are horrible amalgamations of popular weapons. At first glance, though, the rifle struck me more as an AX. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 09:52, 17 July 2012 (CDT)

:Plus it's capcom we're talking here and they have forever been known to make composites of multiple types of guns like the Silver Ghost for example. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 07:00, 18 July 2012 (CDT)
::True, but all the other guns in the passed games were not combo guns. They got special sci fi guns but look at RE5 and aside from maybe the PG shotgun you get at the beginning, it doesn't have any combo guns, in fact, they even used the real names in the game. So judging from ALL their games, they have the money to acquire the rights to print the gun's names in the games, except for RE4, which uses fake names but the guns were all for the most part, modeled after the real steel. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:16, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

== Weapon Names ==

Downloaded the demo to my 360. Got the names of the weapons available in the demo and added them into the descriptions here along with any special features. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 09:07, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

Talk:End of Watch

2012-09-22T21:56:22Z

Bristow8411: /* Any chance the Glocks are actually 19's? */

== Glock 22 ==

Just FYI for anyone that is wondering, I ID'd the Glocks as 22s from a ''Total Film'' article which had a closeup shot of the side of the pistol showing the slide markings. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:21, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

==DEA Weapons?==

Saw a trailer for this earlier, and saw a DEA Agent armed with some sort of [[M16 rifle series|AR]]-type carbine. Anyone think they can ID it for the page? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] ([[User talk:Orca1 9904|talk]]) 09:51, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

Can't see it from all the trailers I've seen. Guess we'll have to wait for the movie to come out. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:07, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

I think that literally all you see of it in the trailer is the fact that it has a Crane stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:34, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

== 92? ==

Saw this in another trailer

[[File:Endofwatch92.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Can't be 100% on whether the specific model is correct without seeing more of the gun, but think it is actually a [[Smith & Wesson 39]]. Either way, I think it is a S&W auto rather than a Beretta. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:45, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
:That's definitely some kind of Smith & Wesson auto. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:50, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
On closer examination I'll upgrade what I said to it definitely being a S&W 39. Thought it might have been a 439, but you can just make out the hole in the hammer which wasn't there on the 2nd gen pistols. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:33, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

== Any chance the Glocks are actually 19's? ==

I ask because I saw the movie tonight and Taylor specifically calls his Glock a "Glock 19". Now I know normally I shouldn't go by what was said in the script but during one of the POV segments, I think I might have seen a 19 on the slide. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 01:00, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
:I id'd them as 22 based on promotional photos in a magazine article where you could see the "22" slide markings. Will try and see if I can find the shot online. Also they look like they have full length slides to me, particularly in the shot where Zavala is coming through the door. Could be that the two of them are carrying different guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:50, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
::Found it:[[File:EOW Glock slide markings.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Hires promotional image showing the Glock slide markings.]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:56, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

Perhaps they could indeed be carrying 2 different guns, I honestly can't say without seeing the movie again and potentially a pause button. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 17:56, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

Talk:End of Watch

2012-09-22T05:00:05Z

Bristow8411: /* Any chance the Glocks are actually 19's? */ new section