Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Death Wish (1974)

2016-11-02T12:39:18Z

Big les: /* 1842 Percussion Revolver */ Misidentification as Colt 1860 Army corrected (note octagonal barrel, sighting rib on frame).

[[Image:NoirDeathWish.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Death Wish'' (1974)]]

'''''Death Wish''''' is the 1974 cult classic thriller based on the novel of the same name written by Brian Garfield. [[Charles Bronson]] stars as Paul Kersey, a quiet architect who becomes a vigilante, when his wife is killed and his daughter is raped by three muggers (including one played by [[Jeff Goldblum]] in his film debut). Bronson would go on to star in [[Death Wish (disambiguation)|four more "Death Wish" films]]. It's also of interest that author Brian Garfield wrote a sequel novel to ''Death Wish'', which served as the basis for the 2007 Kevin Bacon film ''[[Death Sentence]]''.

{{Film Title}}
__TOC__ 

{{spoiler}}

=Revolvers=
==Colt Police Positive==
Paul Kersey ([[Charles Bronson]]) uses a .32 caliber nickel [[Colt Police Positive]] revolver with a 4-inch barrel as his weapon of choice. This revolver was given to him as a present by Ames Jainchill ([[Stuart Margolin]]) and is used throughout his vigilante encounters. He kills ten street muggers with it.
[[File:Colt-Police-Positive-Nickel---5-inch.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Colt Police Positive Nickel - various calibers]]
[[Image:Kersey revolver.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Paul Kersey's revolver in special case.]]
[[Image:Kersey revolver2.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Paul Kersey ([[Charles Bronson]]) holding his Colt revolver. Note the trigger shape in this shot.]]
[[Image:Kersey revolver3.jpg|thumb|601px|none|A nice shot of the [[Colt Police Positive]].]]
[[Image:Kersey revolver4.jpg|thumb|602px|none|Paul Kersey aims his new revolver at the first time, just before his first vigilante encounter.]]
[[Image:Kersey revolver5.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Paul Kersey shoots his revolver at mugger Thomas Leroy Martin. Note the hot gases escaping the barrel-cylinder gap.]]
[[Image:Kersey revolver6.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Kersey shooting another mugger in his second vigilante encounter.]]
[[Image:Kersey revolver7.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Kersey shooting down a subway mugger.]]
[[Image:Kersey revolver8.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Kersey shooting an African-American mugger in the subway station. Note very little (compared to other in this film) muzzle shots in this scene.]]
[[Image:32_calibre_bullets.jpg|thumb|601px|none|.32 caliber bullets in surgeons hands removed from mugger's liver.]]
[[Image:Kersey revolver9.jpg|thumb|601px|none|A reverse angle shows Inspector Frank Ochoa ([[Vincent Gardenia]]) holding Kersey's empty revolver on him.]]
[[File:DeathW 30.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Inspector Frank Ochoa ([[Vincent Gardenia]]) holds Kersey's revolver.]]

==1842 Percussion Revolver==
During his business trip in Tucson, Paul is seen target shooting with a percussion revolver. Ames Jainchill ([[Stuart Margolin]]) describes the weapon as a 'Percussion pistol, 1842', but it is actually a reproduction of the [[Remington 1858 New Army]].
[[File:Remington1858-1.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Remington 1858 New Army - .44 caliber]]
[[File:DeathW_02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ames Jainchill ([[Stuart Margolin]]) takes out the revolver and ammunition from a gun case.]]
[[File:DeathW 05.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Kersey holds the 1842 revolver.]]
[[Image:1842_revolver.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Kersey aims 1842 revolver on the target. Note the iconic stance, used by Bronson in all Death Wish movies.]]
[[Image:1842_revolver2.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Kersey aims 1842 revolver on the target.]]
[[Image:1842_revolver3.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Kersey shoots 1842 revolver. Note big yellow muzzle flash. Some of the muzzle flashes in the film also yellow and some - white.]]

==Single Action Army==
Paul opts to try the Colt [[Single Action Army]] revolver, after impressing Jainchill by shooting the Percussion pistol dead center at the range. It's described by Jainchill as revolver used by bandit Candy Dan in 1890. They're also used by stuntmen performing in a Wild West live action show.
[[Image:ColtSAALongBarrel.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel known as the "Cavalry" model - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:1890_revolver.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Kersey aims the [[Single Action Army]] on the target.]]
[[Image:1890_revolver2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Close-up of the revolver as Kersey cocks it.]]
[[Image:1890_revolver3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another close-up of the cocked SAA.]]
[[Image:1890_revolver4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Kersey shoots the revolver on the target.]]
[[Image:death_wish_unknown_revolvers1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SAA revolvers seen in actors hands and holsters.]]
[[Image:death_wish_unknown_revolvers2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An actor playing a deputy sheriff points his revolver at bandits.]]
[[Image:death_wish_unknown_revolvers3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An actor playing a deputy sheriff shoots his revolver at bandits. There was no muzzle flash in the first shot.]]
[[Image:death_wish_unknown_revolvers4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|But there was muzzle flash when he fires another one.]]
[[Image:death_wish_unknown_revolvers5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An actor playing a bandit fires his revolver.]]
[[Image:death_wish_unknown_revolvers6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SAA revolvers on Jainchill's Gun Club's Shooting range wall.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 36==
During his first night of vigilantism, Paul encounters drug addict and mugger Thomas Leroy Martin who points a nickel-plated [[Smith & Wesson Model 36]] behind him with a warning to give him the money or 'I'll bust you up'.
[[Image:StainlessS%26WModel36.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Nickel Smith & Wesson Model 36 - .38 Special]]
[[Image:snub_nose_revolver.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Thomas Leroy Martin points his [[Smith & Wesson Model 36]] on Kersey.]]
[[Image:snub_nose_revolver3.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Martin with his Model 36 on Kersey. Another angle of the same situation.]]
[[Image:snub_nose_revolver2.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Martin with his S&W Model 36 on Kersey.]]
[[Image:snub_nose_revolver4.jpg|thumb|601px|none|Martin is shot by Kersey while holding his Model 36.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 10==
A [[Smith & Wesson Model 10]] is seen wielded by a police officer.
[[Image:S&W-Model-10.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Smith & Wesson Model 10 - .38 Special]]
[[Image:death_wish_unknown_revolvers7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Cop with his revolver. Kersey is seen in the first window, sitting.]]

=Pistols=
==Colt M1911==
A mugger is seen wielding a standard [[M1911]] pistol upon Paul's vigilante mission. Unfortunately for Paul, the mugger wounds him in the leg before he can take him out.
[[Image:COLTM1911 1913.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Colt M1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:1911_gun.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mugger with his Colt M1911.]]
[[Image:1911_gun2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The mugger shoots his Colt 1911. He misses this shot, but wounded Kersey's leg by another shot.]]

=Shotguns=
==12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun==
A short-barreled [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]] is used by an actor playing a deputy in the wild west show.
[[Image:IGA-Coach-Gun.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Short-barrel Double Barreled 'Coach' Shotgun - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:Death_wish_unknown_sawed-off_double_barreled_shotgun.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An actor playing a deputy sheriff with his double-barreled shotgun.]]
[[Image:Death_wish_unknown_sawed-off_double_barreled_shotgun2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An actor playing a deputy sheriff shooting his double-barreled shotgun. Note again yellow muzzle flash.]]

=Other=
==Depicted revolvers==
We can also see generic pictures of revolvers, first on a Newsweek cover in the street commercial and again, a drawn image on a TV news broadcast.
[[Image:newsweek_revolver.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Revolver seen on the cover of Newsweek.]]
[[Image:tv_depicted_revolver.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Drawn revolver seen in the TV news.]]

==Weapons Case==
Ames Jainchill ([[Stuart Margolin]]) is seen taking Kersey to a private gun range where gun cases displaying several weapons are visible.
[[File:DeathW_02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ames Jainchill ([[Stuart Margolin]]) takes out a revolver and ammunition from a gun case.]]
[[File:DeathW_01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several rifles and shotguns seen at the left.]]

{{Death Wish}}
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Crime]]
[[Category:Thriller]]
[[Category:Michael Winner]]

Mauser C96

2015-07-24T19:26:37Z

Big les: Correcting erroneous statement that the C96 was described in the show as 'automatic'. It was not (see online copies of script for S02E02).

The '''Mauser C96''' (commonly called the "Broomhandle" or "Broomhandle Mauser" due to its distinctive grip, was a German semi-automatic pistol manufactured from 1896 to circa 1937. There was a Chinese version produced from 1929 thru 1936, at the arsenal at Shansei, that was called the 'box cannon', because it was substantially larger (over 2 pounds heavier) than 7.62mm or 9mm C96 Mausers, and it was chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge. The C96 Mauser was one of the first semi-automatic pistols to see widespread use and was copied in Spain and China, along with the wood holster that could also be used as a stock.

'''There are several major variants, though continual product improvement at the Mauser factory led to dozens or hundreds of individual variations arising over four decades of manufacture.'''

* The original '''C.96 Military Model''' had full-sized long grips, a fixed ten-shot magazine, a 5.5-inch [140mm] barrel, adjustable tangent iron sights calibrated to 1000 meters, and was chambered in 7.63x25mm Mauser. It was made from 1896-1921. Collectors call this model a "Pre-War Commercial".
* The '''C99 Regia Marina''' was dimensionally identical to the standard Military Model, but had a side without fuller relief and had generically a more economic finish. It was built expecially by request of the Royal Navy of Italy; only 5000 of these were made. Chambered in 7,63x25mm
* The small-framed '''M1896 Compact Model''' (made from 1896-1899) had full-sized long grips, a short 4.75-inch [120mm] barrel, and a 6-shot fixed magazine. Collectors call them "Pre-War Bolos".
* The rare '''M1912 Export Model''' was designed for the South American market and was chambered in 9x25mm Mauser Export.
* The '''M1916 ''"Red 9"'' ''' was a 9x19mm model produced to fill a contract for the Prussian army during the First World War. As it was externally identical to the concurrently produced 7.63mm version, its caliber was burned on each side of the grip and prominently marked in red or black paint.
* The '''M1920 "Rework" Models''' were Weimar Republic government and military issue Pre-War Mausers modified to meet the restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles (1919). They had cut-down 3.9-inch [99mm] barrels and reworked and simplified fixed sights. Pistols chambered in non-standard chamberings like 9x19mm Parabellum were converted to chamber standard 7.63x25mm Mauser rounds. Converted models were stamped "M1920" to show they were compliant; this practice continued on government-issue weapons even after the ban was no longer in effect.
* The '''M1921 "Bolo"''' model had small grips, a 10-round magazine, and a short 3.9-inch [99mm] barrel. It was first produced as a variant model for domestic sales from 1920 to 1921, going into full production from 1921 to 1930.The name "Bolo" is short for Bolshevik. Reportedly the Russian Communists or Bolsheviks favored the Broomhandle and in particular the Model 1921. The model was also popular with Poles, Lithuanians, German Freikorps, and White Russians. Among collectors the Bolo model is one of the most popular.
* The simplified '''M1930 Model''' had a 5.2-inch [132mm] (1930) or 5.5-inch [140mm] (later) long barrel, a solid one-piece grip frame and large wooden grips, and a lack of decorative milling on the frame and hammer. Collectors call this model the "M30". It was also erroneously called the "M711" by military surplus dealers to distinguish it from the similar selective-fire and magazine-fed M712.
* The '''''"Schnellfeuer"''''' was introduced in the early 1930s in response to the select-fire C96 copies produced in Spain in the late 1920s. It used ten- or twenty-round detachable magazines and a select-fire mechanism designed by Joseph Nickl (1930-1932), later improved by Karl Westinger (1932-1936), the most commonly seen. The ''Schnellfeuer'' is popularly known as the "M712", its Wehrmacht designation during World War 2.

'''Many foreign copies were also manufactured :'''
* The Astra 900 was a Spanish copy of the C96 produced by Unceta & Cia. It retained the overall shape and locking system of the C96, but used a trigger mechanism of original design.
* The Astra 903 was Unceta's equivalent of the M1932 Schnellfeuer, though unlike Beistegui's later versions the 903 was not compatible with Schnellfeuer magazines.
* The Astra Model F was a version of the Astra 903 chambered in 9mm Largo.
* Beistegui Hermanos made copies of the Astra 900 line. Later production examples were, unlike the Astra line, compatible with Mauser-produced Schnellfeuer magazines.
* The Type 17 was a .45 ACP version produced in Shanxi, China under the orders of ruling warlord Yan Xishan in order to maintain ammunition compatibility with the [[Thompson_Submachine_Gun|Thompson M1921]] clones his Taiyuan factory already produced. C96 copies of varying quality were also produced by Chinese arsenals at Hanyang, Taku, and several other locations.
* The Hanyang C96 was another Chinese copy of the Mauser C96, produced by Hanyang Munitions Works from 1923 to the 1930's. Around 13,000 guns were manufactured.

'''The Mauser C96 "Broomhandle" pistol and variants has been seen in the following films and television shows used by the following actors:'''

==Mauser C96 "Broomhandle"==

[[Image:C96Pistol.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Pre-War dated Mauser C96 "Broomhandle" Commercial Version - 7.63x25mm Mauser. Note the rear tangent sight; in something of a display of wishful thinking, the C96's sight is adjustable for ranges up to 1000 meters. Later examples had a sight adjustable to a still unrealistic 500 meters. C96 pistols with fixed rear sights are very rare.]]
[[File:SixshotBroomhandle.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Six shot Mauser C96 Broomhandle - 7.63x25mm Mauser. Note the "cone" style hammer, also seen on early examples of the standard ten shot model.]]
[[Image:M712.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Mauser C96 in silver finish - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]
[[Image:ASTRA900.jpg|thumb|right|400px|ASTRA 900 - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]
[[Image:Astra902.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Astra Model 902 - 7.63x25mm Mauser.]]
[[Image:ASTRA903.jpg|thumb|right|400px|ASTRA 903 machine pistol - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]
[[Image:C96STOCK.jpg|thumb|right|400px|C96 "Broomhandle" Mauser fitted with holster/stock combo - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]
[[File:C96carbine.jpg|thumb|right|400px|The very rare full stocked C96 carbine - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]
[[Image:Whats up doc.jpg|thumb|right|400px|An early Mauser prototype - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]

===Specifications===

''(1896-1937)''

'''Type:''' Pistol, Machine Pistol

'''Caliber:''' 7.63x25mm Mauser, 9x19mm Parabellum, 9×23mm Largo (Astra Model F), 9x25mm Mauser Export (1912), .45 ACP (Type 17)

'''Capacity:''' 10-round fixed box magazine was standard. Variant 6-round fixed box magazine (1896-1899) or 20-round fixed box magazine (1896) were used on experimental models.

'''Fire Modes:''' Semiautomatic (C96), Semi/Full-auto (Schnellfeuer "M712", Astra 903, Astra Model F)

=== Film ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Spies]]'' || ||Haghi's Henchmen|| || 1928
|-
|''[[Thirteen (Trinadtsat), The]]'' || || Colonel Skuratov || || 1936
|-
| rowspan="2"|''[[Yakov Sverdlov]]'' || [[Nikolai Kryuchkov]] || Trofimov || rowspan="2"| || rowspan="2"|1940
|-
| || Red sailors
|-
| ''[[Aleksandr Parkhomenko]]'' || [[Aleksandr Khvylya]] || Aleksandr Parkhomenko || || 1942
|-
| ''[[Aleksandr Parkhomenko]]'' || [[Pyotr Aleynikov]] || Vasya Gaivoron || || 1942
|-
| ''[[Aleksandr Parkhomenko]]'' || [[Boris Chirkov]] || Nestor Makhno || || 1942
|-
| ''[[Aleksandr Parkhomenko]]'' || [[Stepan Kayukov]] || Terenty Lamychev || || 1942
|-
| ''[[Aleksandr Parkhomenko]]'' || [[Amvrosi Buchma]] || Maksyuta || || 1942
|-
| ''[[Aleksandr Parkhomenko]]'' || || Anarchist sailors || || 1942
|-
| ''[[Invincible (Nepobedimye)]]'' || || A German officer || || 1943
|-
|''[[Stolen Border,The (Uloupená hranice)|The Stolen Border (Uloupená hranice)]]'' || [[Robert Vrchota]] || Kurt Reichman || || 1947
|-
|''[[Daughters of China (Zhong Hua nu er)]]''|| [[Shen Yue]] || Leng Yun |||| 1949
|-
|''[[Daughters of China (Zhong Hua nu er)]]''|| [[Feng Jin]] || Lt. Zhou |||| 1949
|-
|''[[State Department: File 649]]'' || || || || 1949
|-
| ''[[Forty-first, The (Sorok pervyy)|The Forty-first (Sorok pervyy)]]'' || [[Nikolai Kryuchkov]] || Ansenti Yevsyukov || || 1956
|-
|''[[Kansas City Confidential]]'' || [[Preston Foster]]||Tim Foster|| || 1952
|-
| ''[[Miles of Fire (Ognennye versty)]]'' || [[Ivan Savkin]] || Grigory Zavragin || || 1957
|-
| ''[[And Quiet Flows the Don (Tikhiy Don) (1957)|And Quiet Flows the Don (Tikhiy Don)]]'' || [[Viktor Bubnov]] || Yakov Fomin || || 1957
|-
| ''[[And Quiet Flows the Don (Tikhiy Don) (1957)|And Quiet Flows the Don (Tikhiy Don)]]'' || || Red sailors || || 1957
|-
|''[[Queen of Outer Space]]'' || || || The astronauts' weapons were short magazine C96 Mausers painted gold || 1958
|-
|''[[The Wind (Veter)]]'' || [[Leonid Gaidai]] || Naumenko || Only seen holstered in a signature wooden stock/holster combo || 1958
|-
|rowspan="6"|''[[Red Detachment of Women, The (Hong se niang zi jun)|The Red Detachment of Women (Hong se niang zi jun)]]'' || [[Xijuan Zhu]] || Wu Qionghua || || rowspan="6"|1961
|-
| [[Mei Xiang]] || Fu Honglian ||
|-
| [[Li Wang]] || Company commander ||
|-
| [[Weiming Zhang]] || Elder sister ||
|-
| [[Ben Niu]] || Xiao Pang ||
|-
| || Nan Batian´s guard, Local militia officers ||
|-
|''[[Lawrence of Arabia]]'' || || Turkish Army officers || || 1962
|-
|''[[From Russia With Love]]'' || [[Robert Shaw]] || Red Grant || || 1963
|-
| ''[[Monsieur Gangster]]'' || [[Venantino Venantini]] || Pascal || Suppressed || 1963
|-
| ''[[Optimistic Tragedy (Optimisticheskaya tragediya)]]'' || [[Boris Andreyev]] || Vozhak || || 1963
|-
| ''[[Optimistic Tragedy (Optimisticheskaya tragediya)]]'' || [[Vsevolod Sanayev]] || Sipliy || || 1963
|-
| ''[[Optimistic Tragedy (Optimisticheskaya tragediya)]]'' || [[Nikita Kondratyev]] || An anarchist || || 1963
|-
|''[[Behold A Pale Horse]]'' || [[Gregory Peck]] || Manuel Artiguez || || 1964
|-
| ''[[Great Spy Chase, The (Les Barbouzes)|The Great Spy Chase (Les Barbouzes)]]'' || [[Charles Millot]] || Hans Müller || || 1964
|-
|''[[The Second Best Secret Agent in the Whole Wide World]]'' || [[Tom Adams]] || Agent Charles Vine || || 1965
|-
|''[[That Man in Istanbul (Estanbul 65)]]''|| || Taiwanese agents || Astra Model 902 ||1965
|-
| ''[[The Sucker (Le corniaud)]]'' || [[Bob Lerick]] || Loulou || || 1965
|-
|''[[Chief of Chukotka (Nachalnik Chukotki), The|The Chief of Chukotka (Nachalnik Chukotki)]]'' || [[Mikhail Kononov]] || Alexei || || 1966
|-
|''[[Chief of Chukotka (Nachalnik Chukotki), The|The Chief of Chukotka (Nachalnik Chukotki)]]'' || [[Aleksei Gribov]] || Khramov || || 1966
|-
| ''[[The Elusive Avengers (Neulovimye mstiteli)]]'' || [[Vladimir Treshchalov]] || Sidor Lutiy || || 1966
|-
| ''[[The Elusive Avengers (Neulovimye mstiteli)]]'' || [[Vasiliy Vasilyev]] || Yashka the Gypsy || || 1966
|-
| ''[[The Elusive Avengers (Neulovimye mstiteli)]]'' || [[Yefim Kopelyan]] || Burnash || || 1966
|-
|''[[Sorrel Flower (Fleur d'oseille)]]'' || [[Dominique Zardi]] || Jeannot || || 1967
|-
|''[[Sorrel Flower (Fleur d'oseille)]]'' || [[Marcel Gassouk]] || "The Limping" || Fitted with a stock. || 1967
|-
|''[[The Naked Runner]]'' || [[Frank Sinatra]] || Sam Laker || Modified to convert into a sniper rifle. Used in "The Protectors", and in "Star Wars" || 1967
|-
| ''[[Who's Got the Black Box (La route de Corinthe)]]'' || || One of Khalidès men || || 1967
|-
|''[[Wedding in Malinovka (Svadba v Malinovke)]]'' || [[Grigori Abrikosov]] || Gritsian || || 1967
|-
|''[[Wedding in Malinovka (Svadba v Malinovke)]]'' || [[Mikhail Vodyanoy]] || Popandopulo || In wooden holster || 1967
|-
|''[[Salt and Pepper]]'' || [[John Le Mesurier]] || ||had shoulder stock attached|| 1968
|-
|''[[The Great Silence|The Great Silence (Il Grande Silenzio)]]'' || [[Jean-Louis Trintignant]] || Silence (Silenzio) || || 1968
|-
|''[[The Great Silence|The Great Silence (Il Grande Silenzio)]]'' || [[Vonetta McGee]] || Paulina || || 1968
|-
| ''[[Ho!]]'' || [[Tony Taffin]] || Schwartz-elder || || 1968
|-
| ''[[The New Adventures of the Elusive Avengers (Novye prikluchenya Neulovimykh)]]'' || [[Yefim Kopelyan]] || Burnash || || 1968
|-
| ''[[Shine, Shine, My Star (Gori, gori, moya zvezda)]]'' || [[Leonid Kuravlyov]] || Serdyuk || || 1969
|-
| ''[[Shine, Shine, My Star (Gori, gori, moya zvezda)]]'' || [[Leonid Dyachkov]] || Ohrim || || 1969
|-
|rowspan="4"|''[[White Sun of the Desert (Beloye solntse pustyni)]]'' || [[Kakhi Kavsadze]] || Abdullah the Black || || rowspan="4"|1970
|-
| [[Anatoly Kuznetsov]] || Fyodor Sukhov ||
|-
| [[Pavel Luspekaev]] || Pavel Vereshchagin ||
|-
| || Several of the Abdullah's men ||
|-
| [[The Flight (Beg)]] || [[Mikhail Ulyanov]] || General Charnota || || 1970
|-
|[[The Conformist]] || [[Pierre Clémenti]] || Lino || || 1970
|-
|[[The Conformist]] || Pasquale Fortunato || Young Marcello Clerici || || 1970
|-
|''[[Property of Republic (Dostoyanie respubliki), The|The Property of Republic (Dostoyanie respubliki)]]'' || || Red commissar || || 1971
|-
| ''[[Angel's Leap (Le Saut de l'ange)]]'' || || Vietnamese henchman || ||1971
|-
|''[[10th Victim, The|The 10th Victim (La decimation vittima)]]'' || || German victim || || 1971
|-
|''[[10th Victim, The|The 10th Victim (La decimation vittima)]]'' || || Chinese hunter || || 1971
|-
| ''[[The Crown of the Russian Empire, or the Elusive Avengers Again (Korona Rossiyskoy Imperii, ili Snova Neulovimye)|The Crown of the Russian Empire, or the Elusive Avengers Again]]'' || [[Arkadi Tolbuzin]] || Colonel Kudasov || || 1971
|-
| rowspan="3"|''[[Officers (Ofitsery)]]'' || [[Vasili Lanovoy]] || Ivan Varravva || rowspan="3"| || rowspan="3"|1971
|-
| [[Georgi Yumatov]] || Aleksei Trofimov
|-
| || Basmachi (Middle Asian Muslim rebels)
|-
|[[Young Winston]] || [[Simon Ward]] || Winston Churchill || || 1972
|-
|[[Joe Kidd]] || [[Don Stroud]] || Lamarr Simms || || 1972
|-
|[[Joe Kidd]] || [[Clint Eastwood]] || Joe Kidd || || 1972
|-
| rowspan="2"|''[[She No Longer Talks She Shoots]]'' || [[André Pousse]] || Max || rowspan="2"| || rowspan="2"|1972
|-
| [[Annie Girardot]] || Rosamonde
|-
| ''[[Gang War in Naples]]'' || [[Ugo D'Alessio]] || Pietro Russo || C99 "Regia Marina" || 1972
|-
| ''[[Gang War in Naples]]'' || [[Fabio Testi]] || Tonino Russo || C99 "Regia Marina" || 1972
|-
|[[Hell Up in Harlem]] || [[Fred Williamson]] || Tommy Gibbs || || 1973
|-
|''[[Le Magnifique]]'' || [[Jean-Paul Belmondo]] || Bob Saint-Claire || Equipped as sniper rifle with silencers || 1973
|-
|''[[Wind and the Lion, The|The Wind and the Lion]]'' || [[Antoine Saint-John]] || Colonel Von Roerkel || || 1975
|-
|''[[Three Days of the Condor]]'' || [[Max von Sydow]] || Joubert || || 1975
|-
| ''[[Breakout]]'' || || || Seen in warden's office || 1975
|-
|[[Assault on Precinct 13 (1976)]] || || Several "Street Thunder" gangmembers || Equipped with silencers || 1976
|-
| ''[[Days of the Turbins (Dni Turbinykh)]]'' || [[Vladimir Basov]] || Capt. Myshlayevsky || || 1976
|-
| ''[[Days of the Turbins (Dni Turbinykh)]]'' || [[Andrei Rostotsky]] || Nikolai Turbin || || 1976
|-
| ''[[Rome Armed to the Teeth]]'' || || A police inspector || || 1976
|-
| ''[[Free Hand for a Tough Cop]]'' || || A hitman || || 1976
|-
| ''[[Violent Naples (Napoli violenta)]]'' || || A hitman || C99 "Regia Marina" || 1976
|-
| ''[[Tachanka from the South (Tachanka s yuga)]]'' || [[Stanislav Korenev]] || Bardin || || 1977
|-
| ''[[Tachanka from the South (Tachanka s yuga)]]'' || [[Aleksandr Strigalyov]] || Shura || || 1977
|-
| ''[[Tachanka from the South (Tachanka s yuga)]]'' || [[Viktor Stepanenko]] || Siry || || 1977
|-
| ''[[Tachanka from the South (Tachanka s yuga)]]'' || || Cheka agents || || 1977
|-
|[[The Spy Who Loved Me]] || [[Richard Kiel]] || Jaws || || 1977
|-
|[[Star Wars]] series|| [[Harrison Ford]] || Han Solo || as the "DL-44 Blaster" || 1977 - 1983 (Original release)
|-
|''[[Revenge (Revansa)]]'' || [[Gheorghe Dinica]] || Paraipan || || 1978
|-
| ''[[The End of the Emperor of the Taiga (Konets imperatora taygi)]]'' || [[Ivan Krasko]] || Ivan Solovyov || Nickel plated || 1978
|-
| ''[[The End of the Emperor of the Taiga (Konets imperatora taygi)]]'' || [[German Kachin]] || Pavel Nikitin || Nickel plated || 1978
|-
| ''[[The End of the Emperor of the Taiga (Konets imperatora taygi)]]'' || [[Nartai Begalin]] || Akhmai || || 1978
|-
|''[[Mad Max]]'' || [[Geoff Parry]] || Bubba Zanetti || || 1979
|-
| ''[[Escape to Athena]]'' || [[Telly Savalas]] || Zeno || with holster/stock combo, suppressed || 1979
|-
| ''[[Escape to Athena]]'' || [[Elliott Gould]] || Charlie Dane || with holster/stock combo, suppressed || 1979
|-
|''[[Money Movers]]''||[[Terry Camilleri]]||Dino||equipped with silencer||1979
|-
| ''[[Forget the Word 'Death' (Zabud'te slovo 'smert')]]'' || [[Oleg Korchikov]] || Levchenko || || 1979
|-
|[[Breaker Morant]] || || Boer Commando || || 1980
|-
|[[Kto zaplatit za udachu?]] || [[Vitaly Solomin]] || Kuskov || || 1980
|-
| ''[[Bread, Gold and the Nagant Revolver (Khleb, zoloto, nagan)]]'' || [[Yuriy Grigorev]] || Sasha Andronov || || 1980
|-
| ''[[Bread, Gold and the Nagant Revolver (Khleb, zoloto, nagan)]]'' || [[Eduard Martsevich]] || Mezentsev || || 1980
|-
| ''[[Bread, Gold and the Nagant Revolver (Khleb, zoloto, nagan)]]'' || [[Elgudzha Burduli]] || Pashka the Gypsy || || 1980
|-
|''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]'' || [[Karen Allen]] || Marion Ravenwood || || 1981
|-
|''[[Order: Don't Open Fire (Prikaz: ogon ne otkryvat)]]'' || || Soviet border guards officer || || 1981
|-
|''[[Sahara (1983)|Sahara]]''|| [[Horst Buchholz]] || Eric von Glessing || || 1983
|-
|[[Green Wagon (Zelyonyy Furgon), The|The Green Wagon (Zelyonyy Furgon)]] || [[Konstantin Grigoryev]] || Chief of ''Ugolovny Rozysk'' || || 1983
|-
| ''[[Start Liquidation (Pristupit k likvidatsii)]]'' || [[Oleg Strizhenov]] || Colonel Danilov || With attached holster-stock || 1983
|-
| ''[[High Road To China]]'' || || Thug || Slab-side model || 1983
|-
|''[[Yes, Madam! (Huang jia shi jie)]]''||[[Hark Tsui]] || "Aspirin" || in the trunk || 1985
|-
|''[[Yes, Madam! (Huang jia shi jie)]]''|| || Robber || ||1985
|-
|[[Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome]] || [[Mel Gibson]] || Max || || 1985
|-
| rowspan="2"|[[Lighthorsemen, The|The Lighthorsemen]] || [[Jon Blake]] || Scotty || rowspan="2"| || rowspan="2"|1987
|-
| || Turkish soldiers
|-
|''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]'' || || Kazim || || 1989
|-
| ''[[The Art of Living in Odessa (Iskusstvo zhit v Odesse)]]'' || [[Viktor Avilov]] || Vladislav Simen || || 1989
|-
| ''[[The Art of Living in Odessa (Iskusstvo zhit v Odesse)]]'' || [[Oleg Shkolnik]] || Misha Yablochko || || 1989
|-
| ''[[The Art of Living in Odessa (Iskusstvo zhit v Odesse)]]'' || || ''Cheka'' agents || || 1989
|-
|''[[Stray Dog: Kerberos Panzer Cops]]'' || [[Yoshikatsu Fujiki]] || Inui || || 1991
|-
|[[If Looks Could Kill]] || [[Roger Rees]] || Augustus Steranko || || 1991
|-
| ''[[Assassin of the Tsar]]'' || || Yurovsky's subordinate || || 1991
|-
| ''[[Weather Is Good on Deribasovskaya, It Rains Again on Brighton Beach]]'' || [[Mikhail Kokshenov]] || Kravchuk || || 1992
|-
| ''[[Trouble Bound]] || [[Rustam Branaman]] || Ratman || || 1993
|-
| ''[[Shirli-Myrli]]'' || [[Armen Dzhigarkhanyan]] || Kozyulski || || 1995
|-
| ''[[Fatal Eggs (Rokovye yaytsa)]]'' || [[Aleksei Zharkov]] || Schukin || || 1995
|-
| ''[[Fatal Eggs (Rokovye yaytsa)]]'' || [[Aleksandr Pashutin]] || Polaitis || || 1995
|-
| ''[[Wolf Blood (Volchya krov)]]'' || [[Eugeni Sidikhin]] || Rodion Dobrykh || || 1995
|-
| ''[[Wolf Blood (Volchya krov)]]'' || [[Sergey Garmash]] || Frol || || 1995
|-
|''[[Phantom, The|The Phantom]]'' || [[Agoes Widjaya Soedjarwo]] || Pirate || || 1996
|-
|''[[Michael Collins]]'' || [[Liam Neeson]] || IRA forces || || 1996
|-
|''[[Half a Chance]]'' ||[[Jean-Paul Belmondo]]||Leo|| || 1998
|-
| ''[[Deserter´s Gold]]'' || [[Boguslaw Linda]] || Rysiek "Rudy" || || 1998
|-
| ''[[Wild Things]]'' || || || Seen in the gun cabinet || 1998
|-
|''[[All the King's Men]]'' || || Turkish Officer || || 1999
|-
|''[[Sunshine (1999)|Sunshine]]''|| ||Lenin Boys commander|| ||1999
|-
|''[[The Mummy]]'' || || The Medjai || || 1999
|-
|''[[Hey Ram]]'' || [[Kamal Hassan]] || Saket Ram || || 2000
|-
|''[[From Dusk Till Dawn 3: The Hangman's Daughter]]''||[[Marco Leonardi]]||Johnny Madrid|| ||2000
|-
|''[[Avalon]]'' ||[[Malgorzata Foremniak]]||Ash||Equipped with rifle stock|| 2001
|-
|''[[The Mummy Returns]]'' || [[Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje]] || Lock-Nah || || 2001
|-
|''[[The Mummy Returns]]'' || [[Quill Roberts]] || Shafek || || 2001
|-
| ''[[Smart Philip]]''|| [[Jirí Machácek]] || De Soto || ||2003
|-
| ''[[Smart Philip]]''|| || Mobsters || Mocked up as [[M1921 Thompson]] ||2003
|-
| ''[[Kung Fu Hustle]]'' || || Axe gang members || || 2004
|-
| ''[[Down in the Valley]]'' || || || Seen in the gun cabinet || 2005
|-
| ''[[Joy Division]]'' || [[Tom Schilling]] || Thomas || || 2006
|-
| ''[[Hannibal Rising]]'' || [[Gaspard Ulliel]] || Hannibal Lecter || || 2007
|-
| ''[[Border, The (2007)|The Border]]'' || || Finnish White soldiers || || 2007
|-
| ''[[Speed Racer]]'' || [[Matthew Fox]] || Racer X || || 2008
|-
| ''[[Max Manus: Man of War]]'' || || German officer || || 2008
|-
|''[[The 39 Steps (2008)|The 39 Steps]]''|| [[Werner Daehn]] || Ackerman || ||2008
|-
| ''[[Captive (Plennyy)]]'' || || || Seen among captured firearms || 2008
|-
| ''[[Dnieper Line: Love and War]]'' || [[Igor Sigov]] || General Zubov || || 2009
|-
| ''[[Beneath Hill 60]]'' || Extra || German Soldier || || 2010
|-
| [[Death and Glory in Changde]] || [[Wenkang Yuan]] || Capt. Feng Baohua || || 2010
|-
| ''[[Wind Blast (Xi Feng Lie)]]'' || [[Yu Xia]] || Zhang Ning || || 2010
|-
| ''[[Shanghai]]''||[[Andy On]]||Juan|| ||2010
|-
| ''[[Wild Target]]''|| [[Emily Blunt]]|| Rose || || 2010
|-
| ''[[Djinns (Stranded)]]'' || [[Saïd Taghmaoui]] || Aroui || || 2010
|-
| ''[[Crimson Colour of the Snowfall (Bagrovy Tsvet Snegopada)]]'' || [[Aleksandr Tsurkan]] || Trofim Krjazhnyh || Nickel plated || 2010
|-
| ''[[Crimson Colour of the Snowfall (Bagrovy Tsvet Snegopada)]]'' || [[Daniela Stoyanovich]] || Ksenia Gerstel || Nickel plated || 2010
|-
| ''[[Crimson Colour of the Snowfall (Bagrovy Tsvet Snegopada)]]'' || [[Evgeni Mundum]] || Austrian officer || || 2010
|-
| ''[[Day of the Falcon (Or noir)]]''|| [[Jan Uddin]] || Ibn Idriss || || 2011
|-
|''[[Sherlock Holmes: A Game Of Shadows]]''||[[Robert Downey Jr.]]||Sherlock Holmes|| || 2011
|-
|''[[Sherlock Holmes: A Game Of Shadows]]''||[[Paul Anderson]]|| Colonel Sebastian Moran || || 2011
|-
|''[[The Front Line (2011)]]''||||North Korean Army captain|| ||2011
|-
| ''[[Cold Steel (Bian di lang yan)]]'' || || Chinese resistance fighters || || 2011
|-
|''[[Saints and Soldiers: Airborne Creed]]''||[[Lance Otto]]|| Jacques || w/ "broomhandle" stock || 2012
|-
|''[[Gangster Squad]]''||[[Troy Garity]]||Wrevock||||2013
|-
| ''[[City 44]]'' || [[Michal Czernecki]] || Captain of ''AK'' || || 2014
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Time Crisis]] || || || unusable || 1996
|-
|[[Fallout]] || 9mm Mauser|| || || 1997
|-
|[[Fallout 2]] || || || || 1998
|-
|[[Time Crisis II]] || || || unusable || 1998
|-
| [[Battlefield: 1918]] || || || || 2004
|-
|[[Medal of Honor: Underground]] || || || unusable || 2000
|-
|[[Vietcong 2]] || Mauser C96 mod.1912 || || || 2005
|-
|[[Hitman: Blood Money]] || WW1 Pistol || || || 2006
|-
|[[Medal of Honor: Airborne]] || || || Found during "Operation Varsity" level || 2007
|-
|[[Time Crisis IV]] || || || unusable || 2007
|-
|[[The Saboteur]] || Raum Pistol|| || || 2009
|-
|[[Mafia II]] || || || || 2010
|-
|[[Heroes & Generals]] ||Mauser C96|| || || 2012
|-
|}

=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|[[Czterej pancerni i pies]] || [[Janusz Gajos]] || Cpl. Janek Kos ||. || 1966-1970
|-
|[[Czterej pancerni i pies]] || || German officers ||. || 1966-1970
|-
|[[State Border: Film 2, The|The State Border: Film 2]] || || Russian Border guards ||. || 1980
|-
|[[State Border: Film 3, The|The State Border: Film 3]] || || Chinese police ||. || 1982
|-
|[[Reilly: Ace of Spies]] || [[David Suchet]] || Inspector Tsientsin ||. || 1983
|-
|[[State Border: Film 4, The|The State Border: Film 4]] || || Various characters ||. || 1984
|-
|[[Anzacs]] || [[Johnathon Sweet]] || Bill Sweet ||.|| 1985
|-
| [[Hunter - Season 3|Hunter]]||[[John Beck]] || Neil Jordan || "The Castro Connection" (3.04)||1986
|-
|[[The Professionals]] ||. ||. || Carbine Variant || 1977-1983
|-
| [[Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, The|The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles]] || . || German Soldiers || . || 1992-1993
|-
|[[Rough Riders]] || .|| Spanish and German officers ||. || 1997
|-
|[[Rough Riders]] || [[Brad Johnson]] || Henry Nash ||. || 1997
|-
|[[Band of Brothers]] ||. || Used by French soldier to execute German soldiers || .|| 2001
|-
|[[King Solomon's Mines (2004)|King Solomon's Mines]] ||[[Nick Boraine]] || Ivan Fleekov ||.|| 2004
|-
|''[[CSI: NY - Season 5|CSI: NY]]''|| ||German SS Officer||"Yahrezit" (S05E22)||2004-Present
|-
|[[Kung Fu Killer]] || .|| .|| .|| 2008
|-
|[[The Unit]] || .|| Used by an attempted assassin ||. || 2006-2009
|-
|[[Guns]] ||.|| Gun show customer ||.|| 2008
|-
|[[Deadliest Warrior]] ||.|| Nazi Waffen SS Leader ||.|| 2009-???
|-
|[[Elementary]]||.||Masked Home Invader||.||2012-????
|-
|''[[Peaky Blinders]]''||||Billy Kimber's bodyguards || with the stocks attached ||2013
|-
|[[Penny Dreadful]] || [[Timothy Dalton]] || Malcolm Murray || The C96 is described as a 'prototype', yet the first prototype of the C96 was not built until 1895, and was certainly not sold to the public. However, a genuine early 'conehammer' pistol is used for the prop, and is accurately depicted in use. ||2014-???
|}

=== Anime ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[Gunsmith Cats]] ||. || it is seen the shop and at Rally's house || 1995-1996
|-
|[[Kochikame]] ||. ||. || 1996-2005
|-
|[[Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade]] || .|| at the shooting range and in the end scene || 1998
|-
| [[FLCL]] || Giant robot || Massively scaled-up || 2000 - 2001
|-
|[[Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig|Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. 2nd GIG]] || Dejima refugee || C96 Carbine || 2004-2005
|-
|[[Hellsing|Hellsing Ultimate]] || "The Captain" || C96 pistols with Carbine-length barrels || 2006-ongoing
|-
|[[Black Lagoon]] || Rotton the Wizard ||. || 2006–ongoing
|-
|[[Baccano!]] || ''Daily Days'' Reporter || C96 Carbine || 2007
|-
|[[Eden of the East]] ||. ||Seen with stock in Takizawa's closet || 2009
|-
| [[Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood]] || Captain Buccaneer || || 2009 - 2010
|-
|}

=== Animation ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[Atlantis, The Lost Empire]] || Helga Sinclair || .|| 2001
|-
|}

==Mauser C96 "Red 9"==

===Specifications===

'''Type:''' Semiautomatic, short-recoil operated, single-action trigger

'''Caliber:''' 9x19mm Parabellum

'''Capacity:''' 10-round fixed box magazine

[[Image:C96MauserRed9.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Mauser C96 "Red 9" Version for the German Army - 9x19mm. This model is World War One dated.]]
[[Image:C96Redshort.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Mauser C96 "Red 9" Version with 3 7/8" barrel and fixed sight for the German Police - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:MauserRed9stock.JPG|thumb|right|400px|Mauser C96 "Red 9" Version with shoulder stock and stripper clip 9x19mm]]

=== Film ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[Officers (Ofitsery)]] ||. ||Basmachi (Middle Asian Muslim rebel) || || 1971
|-
|[[Black Caesar]] || [[Fred Williamson]] || Tommy Gibbs || || 1973
|-
| [[Friday Foster]] || [[Carl Weathers]] || Yarbo || || 1975
|-
| [[There Be Dragons]] || [[Wes Bentley]] || Manolo Torres || || 2011
|}
=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Fallout Tactics]] || "HSI Mauser" || || || 2001
|-
|[[Resident Evil 4]] || Red 9 || .|| with an optional stock and fitted with an underbarrel laser pointer || 2005
|-
| [[Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D]] || || || || 2011
|-.
|}
 

==Mauser M712 ''Schnellfeuer''==

===Specifications===

'''Type:''' Select-fire pistol, short-recoil operated, single-action trigger

'''Caliber:''' 7.63x25mm Mauser

'''Capacity:''' 10 or 20 round detachable box magazine

[[Image:MauserM712Schnellfeuer.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]
[[Image:Mauser mod 712A.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer with 10-round magazine - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]
[[File:Mauser 712 carbine.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Mauser M712 Carbine - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]

=== Film ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Branded to Kill]] || [[Jô Shishido]] || Goro Hanada || || 1967
|-
|''[[Sitting Target]] || [[Oliver Reed]] || Harry Lomart || || 1972
|-
|''[[Sitting Target]] || [[Ian McShane]] || Birdy Williams || || 1972
|-
|''[[Sitting Target]] || [[Robert Beatty]] || The gun dealer || || 1972
|-
|''[[Thunderbolt and Lightfoot]] || || An assassin || || 1974
|-
|''[[A Police Commissioner Accuses (Un comisar acuza)]]'' || [[Gheorghe Dinica]] || Paraipan || || 1974
|-
|''[[A Police Commissioner Accuses (Un comisar acuza)]]'' || [[Mircea Pascu]] || Tanasescu || || 1974
|-
|''[[A Police Commissioner Accuses (Un comisar acuza)]]'' || || Iron Guard legionnaires || || 1974
|-
|''[[Brannigan]] || [[Daniel Pilon]] || Gorman ||. || 1975
|-
|''[[Red Spectacles, The|The Red Spectacles]] ||. || Kerberos squad members || .|| 1987
|-
|''[[The Fifth Element]] || [[Luke Perry]] || Billy || .|| 1997
|-
|''[[Wanted]] || [[Morgan Freeman]] || Sloan ||. || 2008
|-
| ''[[Lieutenant Suvorov]]'' || || A German soldier || || 2009
|-
|''[[Nightingale the Robber (Solovey-Razboynik)]] || [[Ivan Okhlobystin]] || Solovey-Razboynik ||Golden finish || 2012
|-
|}

=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[Tyrant]]''|||| || seen in Jamal's arsenal/ Episode 5 ||2014
|-
|}

=== Anime ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[The Skull Man]] || The Skull Man || 10 round magazine|| 2009
|}

===Animation===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[Archer - Season 1]] || Manfred || || 2009
|-
|[[Archer - Season 2]] || Malory || Flashback || 2011
|-
|[[Archer - Season 2]] || Le Chuffre || ||2011
|-
|[[Archer - Season 4]] || Krieger || Fires blanks || 2013
|-
|[[Archer - Season 5]] || Charles and Rudy || Fires blanks || 2014
|}

=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Day of Defeat: Source]] || || || || 2005
|-
| [[Darkest Hour: Europe '44-'45]] || || With Broomhandle stock || || 2006
|-
| [[Medal of Honor: Airborne]] || || || Third & final weapon upgrade (after improved rate of fire and 20-round magazine) || 2007
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || Mauser M712 and M712 Carbine || Carbine version has a longer barrel and fixed stock || 10, 20 and 30-round magazines || 2008
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker]] || "C96" || || || 2010
|-
| [[Red Dead Redemption]] || "Mauser Pistol" ||. || Appears as a standard Mauser C96 || 2010
|-
| [[You Are Empty (VG)]] || || || || 2006
|-
| [[Deadfall Adventures]] || C-96 || || 20 round detachable magazine || 2013
|-
|}

==Shansi Type 17==

===Specifications===

'''Type:''' Semiautomatic, short-recoil operated, single-action trigger

'''Caliber:''' .45 ACP

'''Capacity:''' 10-round fixed box magazine.

[[Image:C96-10.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Shansi Type 17 - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Type 17 side view.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Shansi Type 17 - .45 ACP]]

=== Movies ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|''' Date'''
|-
|[[Tiger on the Beat]] ||[[Norman Chu]]||Poison Snake Ping |||| 1988
|-
|[[Tiger on the Beat]] ||[[Chia Hui Liu]] or also name as [[Gordon Liu]]||Fai || || 1988
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater]] ||. ||. ||. || 2004
|-
|[[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots]]|| Type 17 || .|| Incorrectly shown as select-fire, with an M712 Schnellfeuer fire selector|| 2008
|-
|rowspan="2" | [[Fallout 3]] || Chinese Pistol|| || rowspan="2"| Fires 10mm Auto || rowspan="2" | 2008
|-
|Zhu Rong v418 Chinese Pistol || Bullets set target on fire
|-
|}

 

==Mauser C96 "Bolo" model==
===Specifications===

'''Type:''' semiautomatic, short-recoil operated, single-action trigger

'''Caliber:''' 7.63x25mm Mauser, 9x25mm Mauser Export (rare)

'''Capacity:''' 6 (early), 10 (normal production) or 20 (very early) round fixed box magazine

[[Image:Mauser_c96_bolo.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Mauser C96 Short Barreled "Bolo" Model - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]
[[File:Bolowithstock.jpg|thumb|right|400px|A Mauser C96 'Bolo' with rifle stock attached - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]
[[Image:Superbolo.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Highly engraved Mauser C96 'Bolo' - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]

=== Film ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Sea Outpost (Morskoy post), The|The Sea Outpost (Morskoy post)]]'' || [[Pyotr Arzhanov]] || Japanese officer || || 1938
|-
| ''[[The Gambler (Bob le flambeur)]]'' || || A gangster || || 1956
|-
| ''[[And Quiet Flows the Don (Tikhiy Don) (1957)|And Quiet Flows the Don (Tikhiy Don)]]'' || || White Army officer || Nickel plated || 1957
|-
|''[[Officers (Ofitsery)]] || [[Vasili Lanovoy]] || Ivan Varravva || || 1971
|-
| ''[[Bumbarash]]'' || [[Yuri Smirnov]] || Gavrila || || 1971
|-
| ''[[Bumbarash]]'' || [[Yekaterina Vasilyeva]] || Sofya Tulchinskaya || || 1971
|-
| ''[[Bumbarash]]'' || [[Leonid Bakshtayev]] || Chubatov || || 1971
|-
| ''[[Bumbarash]]'' || || A German officer || || 1971
|-
| ''[[Tachanka from the South (Tachanka s yuga)]]'' || [[Viktor Stepanenko]] || Siry || || 1977
|-
| ''[[Tachanka from the South (Tachanka s yuga)]]'' || [[Georgi Dvornikov]] || Pirozhenko || || 1977
|-
| ''[[Bread, Gold and the Nagant Revolver (Khleb, zoloto, nagan)]]'' || [[Yuriy Grigorev]] || Sasha Andronov || Nickel plated || 1980
|-
|''[[Lethal Weapon 2]] || [[Joss Ackland]] || Arjen Rudd || || 1989
|-
|''[[Laser Mission]]'' || Guy Pringle || Kalishnakov's Lieutenant || || 1989
|-
|''[[Passchendaele]] || || German Seargant || || 2009
|-
|}

=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|[[Reilly: Ace of Spies]] || Alan Downer || General Bazan || .|| 1983
|-
|''[[Peaky Blinders]]''||||Billy Kimber's bodyguard || with the stocks attached ||2013
|-
|}
 

==Hanyang C96==
===Specifications===

'''Type:''' semiautomatic, short-recoil operated, single-action trigger

'''Caliber:''' 7.63x25mm Mauser

'''Capacity:''' 10 (normal production) round fixed box magazine

[[File:Hanyang C96 pistol.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Hanyang C96 pistol - 7.63x25mm Mauser]]

=== Film ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Fist of Legend]]'' || [[Cheung-Yan Yuen]] || Captain Jie || Hanyang C96 || 1994
|-
|''[[Fist of Legend]]'' || [[Paul Chun]] || Uncle Noh || Hanyang C96 || 1994
|-
|''[[Fist of Legend]]'' || || Shanghai cops || Hanyang C96 || 1994
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[Wen Jiang]] || Pocky Zhang || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[Chow Yun-Fat]] || Master Huang || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[You Ge]] || Ma Bangde || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[Bing Shao]] || Two || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[Fan Liao]] || Three || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[John Do]] || Four || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[Li Jing]] || Five || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[Mo Zhang]] || Six || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[Xiao Wei]] || Seven || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[Lu Yao]] || Hu Qian || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| [[Yun Zhou]] || Flora || || 2010
|-
|''[[Let the Bullets Fly]]''|| || soldiers || || 2010
|-
|''[[Legend of the Fist: The Return of Chen Zhen]]''|| || resistance fighters || || 2010
|-
|''[[Legend of the Fist: The Return of Chen Zhen]]''|| [[Huang Bo]] || Inspector Huang Haolong || || 2010
|-
|}

==See Also==

* [[Mauser]] - A list of all firearms manufactured by Mauser.

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Pistol]]
[[Category:Machine Pistol]]
[[Category:Carbine]]

Skyfall

2012-11-18T20:53:44Z

Big les: /* Ardesa 1871 */ Having seen the movie, I'm no longer confident of the ID as an Ardesa repro. It could even be a set of antique Le Page style pistols. Will need to wait for DVD captures.

{{NowShowing}}
{{Spoilers}}
{{Infobox Movie|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = {{PAGENAME}}
|picture = SkyfallLogo.jpg
|caption = ''Teaser Poster''
|country = [[Image:UKD.jpg|25px]] United Kingdom
|director = [[:Category:Sam Mendes|Sam Mendes]]
|date= 2012 
|language = 
|studio= MGM
|distributor= Columbia
|character1=[[James Bond]]
|actor1=[[Daniel Craig]]
|character2=Raoul Silva
|actor2=[[Javier Bardem]]
|character3=Gareth Mallory
|actor3=[[Ralph Fiennes]]
|character4=Eve
|actor4=[[Naomie Harris]]
|character5=M
|actor5=Judi Dench
|character6=
|actor6=
|character7=
|actor7=
|character8=
|actor8=
|character9=
|actor9=
|character10=
|actor10=
}}

'''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' marks the 23rd entry in the official [[James Bond]] film series. [[Daniel Craig]] returns as Agent 007, who questions his loyality to his superior while dealing with the consequences of her past actions when MI6 is attacked. Agent 007 must track down and destroy the threat, however personal the cost. The 2012 film was directed by [[:Category:Sam Mendes|Sam Mendes]], who previously directed Craig in ''[[Road to Perdition]]''. The cast includes [[Javier Bardem]], [[Ralph Fiennes]], and [[Naomie Harris]] in addition to Judi Dench.

{{Film Title}}
__TOC__ 

=Handguns=

==Walther PPK/S==
[[James Bond]] ([[Daniel Craig]]) appears to carry the [[Walther PPK]] as his main sidearm in the film. Field Agent Eve ([[Naomie Harris]]) also is seen using a PPK. Bond has carried the PPK since ''[[Dr. No]]'' until the first half of ''[[Tomorrow Never Dies]]'' where he switched his sidearm to the [[Walther P99]]. However, since ''[[Quantum of Solace]]'', Bond appears to have switched back to the PPK. Q ([[Ben Whishaw]]) calls the pistol a "PPK/S nine-millimeter short" and states that the gun is coded to Bond's palm print so that only he could fire it. After losing the palm print reading model in Macau, Bond carries a regular PPK when back in the UK. It is later used by M ([[Judi Dench]]) in the finale when Silva's men attack Skyfall Lodge.

[[File:PPKS blued.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Walther PPK/S]]
[[Image:SkyfallPPK.jpg|thumb|none|600px|James Bond holds the Walther PPK when pursuing Patrice in Shanghai.]]
[[File:SkyF 1001.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Bond opens fire with his PPK.]]
[[Image:SkyFall-Tower-Chase-Bond-PPK.jpg|400px|thumb|none|A picture from the set, showing James Bond during a foot chase at Tower Hill.]]
[[Image:B23-03359-r-jpg_221011.jpg|thumb|none|500px|James Bond wielding the PPK in a shootout.]]
[[Image:Naomie.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Production image of Field Agent Eve ([[Naomie Harris]]) firing the PPK.]]
[[File:Skyfall-eve-ppk.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Promotional image of Eve holding a Walther PPK/S.]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Bond inspects the PPK, which has custom grips.]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The PPK's special indicator flashes green, allowing Bond to use the gun.]]

==Glock 17==
[[Glock 17]]s are used by numerous characters including James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]), Gareth Mallory ([[Ralph Fiennes]]) and various henchmen. They are also the standard pistol carried by CO19 Firearms Officers in London and armed police officers at M's ([[Judi Dench]]) public inquiry. Raoul Silva ([[Javier Bardem]]) and his crew use Glock 17's while disguised as police officers.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 (3rd Generation) - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Skyfall-20120411105930324_640w.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Gareth Mallory ([[Ralph Fiennes]]) opens fire with a fallen police officers Glock.]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Silva holds a Glock.]]
[[File:SkyF 1005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) aiming a Glock 17.]]
[[Image:Skyfall Glock17 CO19.jpg|thumb|none|350px|A CO19 police officer has a [[Glock 17]] in his thigh holster (circled in red).]]
[[file:Skyfall_Glock.jpg|thumb|none|350px|James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) firing a disarmed henchman's Glock 17.]]

==Glock 18C==
Patrice ([[Ola Rapace]]) is seen shooting a [[Glock 18|Glock 18C]] loaded with "depleted uranium" rounds at Bond and Eve in Turkey. He initially uses a 100-round Beta-C drum magazine, but later switches to extended 33-round ones during the train chase. In Shanghai Patrice uses the Glock in semi-auto and supressed.

[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 18C (3rd Generation) - 9x19mm. This model has compensator cuts on the slide and barrel to reduce muzzle climb while firing]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Patrice fires the Glock in full auto (note the multiple shell casings).]]

==Percussion pistol==
Silva fires a Percussion Cap Pistol, while Bond looks on at gunpoint.

[[File:SkyF-pistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Silva fires the pistol while Bond looks on at gunpoint.]]

==Steyr M9-A1==
Raoul Silva ([[Javier Bardem]]) carries a [[Steyr M9-A1]] during the climax of the film. A Steyr M9-A1 is also briefly seen being used by a henchman at the Macau casino.

[[File:SteyrM9A1.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Steyr M9-A1 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Skyfall-raoul-silva.jpeg|thumb|300px|none|Promotional image of Raoul Silva holding a Steyr M9A1.]]

=Assault Rifles & Carbines=
==Heckler & Koch HK416 D10RS==
Raoul Silva's henchmen use [[Heckler & Koch HK416]] assault rifles during the during their attack on Bond's ancestral home, Skyfall Lodge. Two are also used by James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) after disarming multiple henchmen in the same scene.

[[File:HK416 current.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch HK416 D10RS with 10.4 inch barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Bond_M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|James Bond firing the HK416.]]
[[File:SkyF 1002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:Bond_416.jpg|thumb|none|550px|James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) takes cover, loading a second HK416.]]

==Heckler & Koch G36C==
CO19 officers from the Metropolitan Police Service are seen holding [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifles while patrolling Charing Cross station.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Skyfall_G36C.jpg|thumb|300px|none|An CO19 officer from the Metropolitan Police Service holding the [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifle.]]

==Olympic Arms K23B==
Eve uses what appears to be an [[Olympic Arms K23B]] (or another short-barreled AR15 derivative) with a scope during a train chase sequence in Turkey.

[[Image:Full-k23b.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Olympic Arms K23B - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:SkyF-rifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eve takes aim.]]
[[File:Skyfall-eve1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Production image of Agent Eve with a Olympic Arms K23B.]]

==M4A1 Carbine==
MI6 Security Officers stationed at the agency's underground backup headquarters carry [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1 carbines]].

[[File:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt M4A1 with 6 position collapsible stock - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[File:M4skyfall.jpg|thumb|300px|none|An MI6 Security Officer stands guard outside the entrance to the underground headquarters.]]

=Submachine Guns=

==Heckler and Koch MP7A1==
One of Silva's henchmen at the abandoned island carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP7|Heckler & Koch MP7A1]] submachine gun.

[[Image:H&K MP71A1.jpg‎ |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 with factory magazine and iron sights - 4.6x30mm]]

=Sniper Rifles=
==Unknown Sniper Rifle==
Patrice ([[Ola Rapace]]) uses a sniper rifle of unknown origin when assassinating a target in Shanghai. The rifle has a block suppressor and appears to fire semi-automatically despite being a bolt-action.

[[File:Skyfall sniper rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:SkyF 1003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

=Shotguns=
==Anderson Wheeler 500 NE Double Rifle==
During the assault on Skyfall Lodge, Bond uses his deceased father's Anderson Wheeler Double Rifle chambered in .500 Nitro Express. Anderson Wheeler is a London-based maker of luxury rifles and shotguns whose custom made double rifles are also available in calibers from .375 to .600. Bond's depiction of recoil is akin to that of a nail gun, despite the mammoth cartridge.

[[File:WestleyRichardsSidelock.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Modern Sidelock Double Rifle - .500 Nitro]]
[[File:SkyF-shotgun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bond fires the 500 NE.]]

==Colt Model 1878==
Mr. Kincade ([[Albert Finney]]), gamekeeper of the Skyfall Estate carries a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun|Colt Model 1878]] shotgun. In preperation for impending the attack on Skyfall Lodge, he saws down the barrel to achieve greater spread.

[[File:Colt1878.jpg|thumb|none|500px| Colt Model 1878 - 12 Gauge.]]
[[File:Skyfall-kincade.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Production image of Kincade holding his Model 1878.]]

=Machine Guns=

==Aston Martin Machine Guns==
Bond utilizes machine guns mounted underneath the lights of his customized DB5 when Silva's men attempt to storm Skyfall Lodge.

==Browning M2HB==
A [[Browning M2HB]] heavy machine gun mounted on an Agusta-Westland AW101 helicopter is used by Silva's henchmen to shoot up Skyfall Lodge.

[[File:BrowningM2 plain.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB - .50 BMG]]

=Other=

==AN/M14 Incendiary Grenade==

Silva tosses [[AN/M14 incendiary grenade|AN/M14 incendiary grenades]] into Skyfall Lodge during the climax.

[[Image:AN-M14_Incendiary_Grenade.jpg|thumb|none|AN/M14 incendiary grenade]]

{{James Bond Series}}
[[Category:James Bond]]
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Espionage]]
[[Category:British Produced/Filmed]]
[[Category:Sam Mendes]]

Skyfall

2012-10-28T21:39:48Z

Big les: /* Percussion Cap Pistol */

{{upcoming}}
{{Infobox Movie|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = {{PAGENAME}}
|picture = SkyfallLogo.jpg
|caption = ''Teaser Poster''
|country = [[Image:UKD.jpg|25px]] United Kingdom
|director = [[:Category:Sam Mendes|Sam Mendes]]
|date= 2012 
|language = 
|studio= MGM
|distributor= Columbia
|character1=[[James Bond]]
|actor1=[[Daniel Craig]]
|character2=Raoul Silva
|actor2=[[Javier Bardem]]
|character3=Mallory
|actor3=[[Ralph Fiennes]]
|character4=Eve
|actor4=[[Naomie Harris]]
|character5=M
|actor5=Judi Dench
|character6=
|actor6=
|character7=
|actor7=
|character8=
|actor8=
|character9=
|actor9=
|character10=
|actor10=
}}

'''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' marks the 23rd entry in the official [[James Bond]] film series. [[Daniel Craig]] returns as Agent 007, who questions his loyality to his superior while dealing with the consequences of her past actions when MI6 is attacked. Agent 007 must track down and destroy the threat, however personal the cost. The 2012 film was directed by [[:Category:Sam Mendes|Sam Mendes]], who directed Craig in ''[[Road to Perdition]]''. The cast includes [[Javier Bardem]], [[Ralph Fiennes]], and [[Naomie Harris]] in addition to Judi Dench.

{{Film Title}}
__TOC__ 

=Handguns=

==Walther PPK/S==
[[James Bond]] ([[Daniel Craig]]) appears to carry the [[Walther PPK]] as his main sidearm in the film. Field Agent Eve ([[Naomie Harris]]) also is seen using a PPK. Bond has carried the PPK since ''[[Dr. No]]'' until the first half of ''[[Tomorrow Never Dies]]'' where he switched his sidearm to the [[Walther P99]]. However, since ''[[Quantum of Solace]]'', Bond appears to have switched back to the PPK. Q ([[Ben Whishaw]]) calls the pistol a "PPK/S nine-millimeter short" and states that the gun is coded to Bond's palm print so that only he could fire it.

[[File:PPKS blued.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Walther PPK/S]]
[[Image:SkyfallPPK.jpg|thumb|none|600px|James Bond sneaking around the Shanghai Airport with his Walther PPK drawn.]]
[[File:SkyF 1001.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Bond opens fire with his PPK.]]
[[Image:SkyFall-Tower-Chase-Bond-PPK.jpg|400px|thumb|none|A picture from the set, showing James Bond during a foot chase at Tower Hill.]]
[[Image:B23-03359-r-jpg_221011.jpg|thumb|none|500px|James Bond wielding the PPK in a shootout.]]
[[Image:Naomie.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Production image of Field Agent Eve ([[Naomie Harris]]) firing the PPK.]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Bond inspects the PPK, which has custom grips.]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The PPK's special indicator flashes green, allowing Bond to use the gun.]]

==Glock 17==
In a production still, Gareth Mallory ([[Ralph Fiennes]]) is seen wielding a [[Glock 17]] in a shootout with [[Daniel Craig]].
CO19 also have these holstered. Raoul Silva ([[Javier Bardem]]) is also seen firing a Glock 17 while disguised as a police officer.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 (3rd Generation) - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Skyfall-20120411105930324_640w.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Gareth Mallory ([[Ralph Fiennes]]) opens fire at James Bond with the Glock.]]
[[Image:Skyfall Glock17 CO19.jpg|thumb|none|350px|A CO19 police officer has a [[Glock 17]] in his thigh holster (circled in red).]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Silva holds a Glock.]]
[[file:Skyfall_Glock.jpg|thumb|none|350px|James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) firing a Glock 17.]]

'''==Glock 18c'''
Patrice ([[Ola Rapace]]) is seen shooting a Glock 18c

[[Image:Glock17ext.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 converted to full auto with 33 round magazine - 9x19mm]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Patrice fires the Glock in full auto (note the multiple shell casings).]]
The Gun Ola is shooting at Bond is a real Glock 18c the fully auto version

==Walther P99==
James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) appears to be firing a [[Walther P99]] in a production still. This is probably used as an alternative weapon for the [[Walther PPK]].

[[File:Walther-P99-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|350px| Walther P99 9x19mm parabellum]]
[[File:SkyF 1005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) aiming a Walther P99 in a production still.]]

==Percussion Cap Pistol==
Silva fires an Ardesa 1871 Duelling Pistol, a reproduction Percussion Cap Pistol, while Bond looks on in the trailer.

[[File:SkyF-pistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Silva fires the pistol while Bond looks on at gunpoint.]]

=Rifles=

==Olympic Arms K23B==
Eve uses what appears to be an [[Olympic Arms K23B]] (or another short-barreled AR15 derivative) with a scope during a train chase sequence in Turkey.

[[Image:Full-k23b.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Olympic Arms K23B - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:SkyF-rifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eve takes aim.]]

==Heckler & Koch HK416 D10RS==
James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) appears to be wielding a [[Heckler & Koch HK416]] rifle during a shootout in Bond's ancestral home Skyfall Lodge. Silva's henchmen also use HK416s during the same sequence.

[[File:HK416 current.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch HK416 D10RS with 10.4 inch barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Bond_M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|James Bond firing the HK416.]]
[[File:SkyF 1002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:Bond_416.jpg|thumb|none|550px|James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]])taking cover in Bond's ancestral home Skyfall Lodge.]]

==Heckler & Koch G36C==
In various set photos, CO19 officers from the Metropolitan Police Service are seen holding [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifles with G36V carry handles.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Skyfall_G36C.jpg|thumb|300px|none|An CO19 officer from the Metropolitan Police Service holding the [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifle.]]

==Unknown Sniper Rifle==
Patrice ( Ola Rapace) uses a sniper rifle of unknown origin in a scene set in Shanghai.

[[File:Skyfall sniper rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:SkyF 1003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
The Sniper Rife being used by Ola is a Accuracy Ai 7.62 this was the Police version

==Anderson Wheeler 500 NE Double Rifle==
Bond is seen firing an Anderson Wheeler Double Rifle chambered in .500 Nitro Express. Anderson Wheeler is a London-based maker of luxury rifles and shotguns whose custom made double rifles are also available in calibers from .375 to .600.

[[File:WestleyRichardsSidelock.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Modern Sidelock Double Rifle - .500 Nitro]]
[[File:SkyF-shotgun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bond fires the 500 NE.]]

==Unidentified M4-style assault rifle==
This is a set photo from the Skyfall set in London.

[[File:M4skyfall.jpg|thumb|300px|none|]]

{{James Bond Series}}
[[Category:James Bond]]
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Espionage]]
[[Category:British Produced/Filmed]]
[[Category:Sam Mendes]]

Skyfall

2012-10-28T21:39:20Z

Big les: /* Percusion Cap Pistol */ Added model of pistol used, spelling mistake corrected.

{{upcoming}}
{{Infobox Movie|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = {{PAGENAME}}
|picture = SkyfallLogo.jpg
|caption = ''Teaser Poster''
|country = [[Image:UKD.jpg|25px]] United Kingdom
|director = [[:Category:Sam Mendes|Sam Mendes]]
|date= 2012 
|language = 
|studio= MGM
|distributor= Columbia
|character1=[[James Bond]]
|actor1=[[Daniel Craig]]
|character2=Raoul Silva
|actor2=[[Javier Bardem]]
|character3=Mallory
|actor3=[[Ralph Fiennes]]
|character4=Eve
|actor4=[[Naomie Harris]]
|character5=M
|actor5=Judi Dench
|character6=
|actor6=
|character7=
|actor7=
|character8=
|actor8=
|character9=
|actor9=
|character10=
|actor10=
}}

'''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' marks the 23rd entry in the official [[James Bond]] film series. [[Daniel Craig]] returns as Agent 007, who questions his loyality to his superior while dealing with the consequences of her past actions when MI6 is attacked. Agent 007 must track down and destroy the threat, however personal the cost. The 2012 film was directed by [[:Category:Sam Mendes|Sam Mendes]], who directed Craig in ''[[Road to Perdition]]''. The cast includes [[Javier Bardem]], [[Ralph Fiennes]], and [[Naomie Harris]] in addition to Judi Dench.

{{Film Title}}
__TOC__ 

=Handguns=

==Walther PPK/S==
[[James Bond]] ([[Daniel Craig]]) appears to carry the [[Walther PPK]] as his main sidearm in the film. Field Agent Eve ([[Naomie Harris]]) also is seen using a PPK. Bond has carried the PPK since ''[[Dr. No]]'' until the first half of ''[[Tomorrow Never Dies]]'' where he switched his sidearm to the [[Walther P99]]. However, since ''[[Quantum of Solace]]'', Bond appears to have switched back to the PPK. Q ([[Ben Whishaw]]) calls the pistol a "PPK/S nine-millimeter short" and states that the gun is coded to Bond's palm print so that only he could fire it.

[[File:PPKS blued.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Walther PPK/S]]
[[Image:SkyfallPPK.jpg|thumb|none|600px|James Bond sneaking around the Shanghai Airport with his Walther PPK drawn.]]
[[File:SkyF 1001.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Bond opens fire with his PPK.]]
[[Image:SkyFall-Tower-Chase-Bond-PPK.jpg|400px|thumb|none|A picture from the set, showing James Bond during a foot chase at Tower Hill.]]
[[Image:B23-03359-r-jpg_221011.jpg|thumb|none|500px|James Bond wielding the PPK in a shootout.]]
[[Image:Naomie.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Production image of Field Agent Eve ([[Naomie Harris]]) firing the PPK.]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Bond inspects the PPK, which has custom grips.]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The PPK's special indicator flashes green, allowing Bond to use the gun.]]

==Glock 17==
In a production still, Gareth Mallory ([[Ralph Fiennes]]) is seen wielding a [[Glock 17]] in a shootout with [[Daniel Craig]].
CO19 also have these holstered. Raoul Silva ([[Javier Bardem]]) is also seen firing a Glock 17 while disguised as a police officer.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 (3rd Generation) - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Skyfall-20120411105930324_640w.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Gareth Mallory ([[Ralph Fiennes]]) opens fire at James Bond with the Glock.]]
[[Image:Skyfall Glock17 CO19.jpg|thumb|none|350px|A CO19 police officer has a [[Glock 17]] in his thigh holster (circled in red).]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Silva holds a Glock.]]
[[file:Skyfall_Glock.jpg|thumb|none|350px|James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) firing a Glock 17.]]

'''==Glock 18c'''
Patrice ([[Ola Rapace]]) is seen shooting a Glock 18c

[[Image:Glock17ext.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 converted to full auto with 33 round magazine - 9x19mm]]
[[File:SkyF-pistol-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Patrice fires the Glock in full auto (note the multiple shell casings).]]
The Gun Ola is shooting at Bond is a real Glock 18c the fully auto version

==Walther P99==
James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) appears to be firing a [[Walther P99]] in a production still. This is probably used as an alternative weapon for the [[Walther PPK]].

[[File:Walther-P99-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|350px| Walther P99 9x19mm parabellum]]
[[File:SkyF 1005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) aiming a Walther P99 in a production still.]]

==Percussion Cap Pistol==
Silva fires an Ardesa 1871 Duelling Pistol reproduction Percussion Cap Pistol while Bond looks on in the trailer.

[[File:SkyF-pistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Silva fires the pistol while Bond looks on at gunpoint.]]

=Rifles=

==Olympic Arms K23B==
Eve uses what appears to be an [[Olympic Arms K23B]] (or another short-barreled AR15 derivative) with a scope during a train chase sequence in Turkey.

[[Image:Full-k23b.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Olympic Arms K23B - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:SkyF-rifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eve takes aim.]]

==Heckler & Koch HK416 D10RS==
James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]]) appears to be wielding a [[Heckler & Koch HK416]] rifle during a shootout in Bond's ancestral home Skyfall Lodge. Silva's henchmen also use HK416s during the same sequence.

[[File:HK416 current.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch HK416 D10RS with 10.4 inch barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Bond_M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|James Bond firing the HK416.]]
[[File:SkyF 1002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:Bond_416.jpg|thumb|none|550px|James Bond ([[Daniel Craig]])taking cover in Bond's ancestral home Skyfall Lodge.]]

==Heckler & Koch G36C==
In various set photos, CO19 officers from the Metropolitan Police Service are seen holding [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifles with G36V carry handles.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Skyfall_G36C.jpg|thumb|300px|none|An CO19 officer from the Metropolitan Police Service holding the [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifle.]]

==Unknown Sniper Rifle==
Patrice ( Ola Rapace) uses a sniper rifle of unknown origin in a scene set in Shanghai.

[[File:Skyfall sniper rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:SkyF 1003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
The Sniper Rife being used by Ola is a Accuracy Ai 7.62 this was the Police version

==Anderson Wheeler 500 NE Double Rifle==
Bond is seen firing an Anderson Wheeler Double Rifle chambered in .500 Nitro Express. Anderson Wheeler is a London-based maker of luxury rifles and shotguns whose custom made double rifles are also available in calibers from .375 to .600.

[[File:WestleyRichardsSidelock.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Modern Sidelock Double Rifle - .500 Nitro]]
[[File:SkyF-shotgun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bond fires the 500 NE.]]

==Unidentified M4-style assault rifle==
This is a set photo from the Skyfall set in London.

[[File:M4skyfall.jpg|thumb|300px|none|]]

{{James Bond Series}}
[[Category:James Bond]]
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Espionage]]
[[Category:British Produced/Filmed]]
[[Category:Sam Mendes]]

Talk:Enfield SA80

2012-05-17T23:04:44Z

Big les: /* L64 Service? */

:Too bad I will probably never have the chance to handle one of these-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh... I could live without messing with one. The fact that it is the main battle rifle of the army, but SAS does not use it says a lot to me. I'll follow the highly trained experts who have the choice in what to carry and from what I've mostly read that choice is a M4 variant. [[User:Eagleye1022|Eagleye1022]] 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

::Seeing as I shoot left-handed, this weapon sounds like it'd be a major pain in the ass for me to shoot. Good thing the U.S. uses [[M16 rifle series|M16 & M4-series]] weapons instead. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

:::The British forces are trained to use it right-handed. Yes, its a pain, but it's fairly easy to do, and after a while you get used to it. The A2, and now the newer A2-mk2 are very nice and reliable - just as good as the newer M16 and M4s. One of the reasons the Hereford Gun Club doesn't use the SA80 family is because (aside from the original L85's poor reliability) is because no-one else uses it. (Aside from the defense force of Jamaica and one or two other places). If someone sees them using the L85 (or L86) they can easily guess who's popping in for a visit.

::::I've shot the SA80A2 pretty extensively in field conditions, and never had a jam with it. It's got a lot of good features as a soldier (short, easy to clean, very slick sling setup), but as a serious shooter there's a lot to dislike. Shitty trigger, hard to reach controls, poor ergonomics in the grips. I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying one in Afghanistan, but I was much happier with my C7. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

:::::I found this little bit of information interesting (from a visit to REME's museum and technical museum) - one of the prototypes for the L85 (XL68 I think) was actually left handed. Also, the L86 prototypes had a changeable barrel - it was effectivly a bullpup bren-gun - I wonder why these features never made it into production - time saving I suppose. [[user:Spanner|Spanner]]
::::::Probably because said feature is unnecessary in an assault rifle. Changeable barrels are used on machine guns because they fire a ton of rounds in a short period of time and rapidly overheat, so switching barrels allows them to keep up the rate of fire without destroying the barrel or waiting for it to cool. An assault rifle won't be firing nearly enough ammo to overheat, so it's not a feature you really need to keep. If you're using standard assault rifles with standard magazines in the LMG role, something's gone badly wrong with your logistics. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 00:50, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

==Excessive Variants==
This page has too many SA80 variants that have not appeared in any films/games/animes, it needs to be cut down. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:I removed the L98 section and listed their appearance according to each variant.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Beta-C Compatibility? ==

Does anyone know if any of the SA80-series weapons, such as the L86A1 & L86A2 LSW variants, can use Beta-C drum magazines? I know they can handle all [[M16 rifle series|STANAG]] box magazines, but the design of the SA80's magazine well makes me wonder wether it could take the Beta-C or not. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:In theory it should be able to fit and feed from Beta-C mags, but I think the postiton of the Mag-well, given the bullpup configuration of the weapon, would make it impractical to use, given that it would mean the mag would be in the way of your arm when holding the weapon. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Anyone remember the old quad-stacked magazines they used to have for the Suomi M31,(http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg52-e.htm), anyone think that we could bring back that concept? Yeah it wouldn't be the 100 rounds in the Beta-C, but it could potentially make any rifle that can accept STANAG Magazines into a light automatic weapon. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]

::: No, i don´t think so, for a LaW use an Ultimax or FN Minimi.-[[User:Markost|Markost]] 15:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: Which is what the Birtish Army has done, replaced the L86A2 with the FN Minimi Para (L110A1) in the LSW role, and using the L86A2 in the DMR role with a conventional STANAG Magazine. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'd pick the Ares Shrike out of the lot myself. Light weight, compact, dual belt and magazine feed, rifleman accuracy... what more could one ask for? If only they could get the damned thing into widespread production, it would have been a shoe-in for the USMC IAR program. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::It seems to be doing pretty well in its new DRM role, although a newer version of the A2 is being released - foreguard replaced with the new RAS-guard (and grip-pod), and the outrigger along the barrel has been removed. Various new optics have been trialed, the ACOG is a UOR, until the new Spectre Elcan can be brought in.

:::::::You couldn't really use a Beta C mag in an SA80, espescially if you were wearing a vest. I don't think it would necessarily get in the way of your arm, and it would fit in the mag well, but it would definately get in the way of your chest. Both in the firing position, and the carry - remember with the SA80 sling (slick set-up by the way, I wish you could mount one on a C7) you carry it across your chest. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

::::::::If you fitted a C mag or stacked/clamped magazines into an L85 or L86 the magazine would get in the way of the mag release button and you'd need a screwdriver or multitool to get the mag release to work. The C mag itself wouldn't get in the way of your chest unless you were wearing a vest or rucksack, but it definitely gets in the way of your trigger hand. -[[User:HairySteve|HairySteve]]

==New title==
Is the new title okay?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Overhaul. ==

I'm move several items around this page, as evidently, someone is unable to tell the difference between 1994 and 2008.
Soldier Soldier did indeed use the SA80. However, due to the time it was filmed, and the years it was set, it did not use the A2. Infact, because this was several years '''before''' 2002 the A2 was not in existance yet. Indeed, some of the problems which resulted with the A2's creation had yet to be found (i.e. poor conditions in sand)

Also, there are one or two blindingly obvious errors, for example, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, the IL86 is obviously an A1 (inverted for 'coolness'). This is obvious because: a)the cocking handle is round and b)the in-game story details practically state it is the A1...

*Infact, it appears that most of the TV appearances of the A2 are the A1. Bugs/Stealth, Soldier Soldier, Firefly, Situation Critical, Zero Hour and Battlestar Galactica. These are A1 models used in the show, and because of the Pre-2002 release date of the A2 to the UK armed forces. Dr Who and Ultimate Force are the only TV shows which actually have A2s in them!

== Enfield Prototypes ==

Since these are part of the SA80 family - should they be added?

I'm talking about the late 60's and early 70's models - such as the XL64ES (which has made an appearance, in The Professionals) and the XL70E3 (and others) (Fallout 1 and 2). Use 7.62 NATO and 4.95 British. Latter models used the 5.56 after the US orders NATO to follow suit.

Hell, maybe put the EM-2 in?

I won't to anything until anyone suggests it, but at the moment non of the prototypes have a page/place to link to.

Only if they've actually been used in something. Same reason we don't have the L98s on here. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Ah cheers for putting them up. XL70 appeared in a big mod for Fallout 3 (but blue. P90, G3, Desert Eagle and a load of others appeared in it). You might want to put it up, since you've also put Project Reality. But, I'll leave that choice for you.

== Quad-Rails Updates ==

Anyone got a picture of them? --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.218.80|190.176.218.80]] 01:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

:after a quick search of the net, it appears most of the ones google has to show are either airsoft replicas with the real thing (STAR & Ares can accept it) or complete airsoft replicas. The BBC had some film of soldiers in Afghanistan talking to the Minister of Defence, Dr Liam Fox (sp?), and one of them handed him the new L86A2 - complete with Elcan Spectre and quad-rails.

== Where did they go wrong? ==

If these bullpup rifles are so bad, then what did the designers do wrong that the Steyr AUG, the FN F2000, and the FAMAS do right (just to keep it all European-designed and chambered in 5.56mm NATO)? Why didn't the British Gov't just buy some of the aforementioned rifles for their troops? By the way, if casing ejection is such a problem for bullpups, how much would it cost to license the forward-ejection system (which is patented) of the FN F2000 for the SA80? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: More than it would cost just to drill everyone to shoot right-handed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::They are not so bad. Having used the A1 and A2, and an M16A4 (I think...A3 or A4) and a(Canadian)M4 in exchange exercises, I would pick an L85 everytime.
The original prototypes that the MoD decided to buy were hand made - and were very reliable - in terms of few jams, few parts broken, etc. The actual production models were mass produced, quickly and cheaply. Cheap mass production will not produce the same level of quality and performance as hand made.
"Buy another rifle" ok...well, at the time, only the FAMAS and AUG were avalible on the market. The SA80 project had been running since the mid 1960's, and produced several good prototypes (XL64, XL70E, the LSW, all of them hand made) If you mean why didn't the MoD replace the SA80 in 2000 - think of the costs. New rifles, spare parts, repair kits, training for the armourers, training for the soliders. Considering at the time H&K were British owned, and running out of Nottingham, it was cheaper and easier to simply have the SA80 updated. In the British army you are trained to become right-handed when shooting. No exceptions. Otherwise, firing down range could become...'interesting' with cases being (literally) ejected left, right and centre. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the SA80 family, apart from the weight (especially with the SUSAT). If I was still in service, I'd take an L85 over other assault rifles any day.
:You seem to forget that the SA80 series is very unreliable and fragile, including the "improved" A2 models.
:: No more so than the M16 series. At least the SA80 wasn't sabotaged by the brass. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:::@whoever posted before The Weird It - have you ever used them? 'Unreliable' - if you forget to clean or look after your rifle, don't expect it to work. Look after it, like you're taught to at training. Never had a problem with any of the A2s I got asigned, and I used them for four years, and the A1s for 5 years. And fragile? For Christ's sake, most of the rifle is made of steel! The only parts I would call fragile are the plastic pistol grips and foreguards, and that was after some berk ran a landrover over one...
::::For one, I'm not a big fan of the M16 series ether, the M16 and SA80 both can be very unreliable in actual combat conditions with sand or mud. Secondly, No, I have never used a SA80 because I'm American. Thirdly, I think it's just stupid for a combat weapon needing to be cleaned frequently, I mean come! Keeping a weapon clean in muddy or sandy combat conditions is a Oxymoron. A true combat weapon should not have to be clean to be reliable. Just a question, have you actually used your SA80s in severe combat conditions, with the rain, mud, and sand (Just so I can know, not to be critical or rude). And when you say steel, you mean the cheap stamped-steel the weapon is made out of, I heard it dents very easily and screws up the rifle badly (Interestingly, most AKs are made with stamped-steel too, but of a thicker gauge). I think an assault rifle should be made out of stainless-steel and ultra-tough plastic, that way it will need little to no cleaning at all and it will be extremely durable and reliable. The H&K G36 is the only rifle I know that's fairly close to that, it being made out of anti-corrosive finished steel and tough plastic and it is one of the finest assault rifle systems in the world next to AK series.
:::::Yes, I've used it in 'severe' combat conditions. The A1 had problems - but in the 4 years I used my A2s, I only ever had 3 jams. Yes, cleaning a gun is wasted time, but it has to be done for most firearms. That said - I've chucked my L85 into thick mud for a while and then still been able to fire off a few magazines without problem. The whole "SA80s jam when dirty" and "SA80s are unreliable" stuff was only really true for the A1s. The steel is thin - but not that thin. I have seen dents on L85s - but that was because someone had shot it, when the squaddie carrying it had used it as an improvised flak vest. The L85, whilst dented, was still perfectly functioning. Now, the magazines - the orrigional magazines were made of very thin and awful steel. Those dented very easily, and they did cause problems for the gun - which is why they were replaced. A year or so back I read an article, about what the MoD would replace the SA80 with (in 2025) - the idea was, keep the SA80 design - but rebuild it with the same high-quality polymers and light-wieght, non-corrosive metals used in the G36 (as you mentioned). I liked the idea - but I haven't heard anything since, and quite frankly, haven't bothered looking into it. I agree with you - the G36 is a fine weapon, due to it's materials - but you still have to look after it. If the SA80 was re-designed and rebuilt using the materials of the G36 (or similar), it would be a much better weapon system. I'll agree that the SA80 family has problems - the LSW is useless as an LSW, ''but'' is very good as a DMR, the IW is heavy, until recently it was almost impossible to attatch modern 20mm gear to it (I had to screw a strip of RiS to my old foreguard so I could put a foregrip on) - hell, most weapon systems have a downfall or disadvantage - but my point remains. Whilst the SA80 series does indeed have problems - they are fine weapons, and really deserve far more credit than they get. And modern materials could improve the weapon greatly.
::::::Thank you for putting the SA80 in a new light for me. :) So the A1 sucks and the A2 is pretty good, kind of like how the M16 sucks but M16A2/A4 is pretty good. I did not mean you never have to clean the G36 off, but if you get mud or sand in it, you won't have to worry about it. I've seen videos of the G36 (and the HK416) put in to vats of mud and then pulled and fire several mags with out a problem. ;) btw, I still think assault rifles being made out of stainless-steel and plastic is diffidently the way to go. I came up with my own design for a stainless-steel and plastic, 7.62 NATO, 32 round, bull-pup assault rifle. ;)
:::::::Yes, a good comparison would probably be the origional M16s and then the updated version (although, we were told right from the start that the SA80 needed cleaning, I suppose it was just to avoid similar problems)

If they had chosen the FN F2000 (which is a fine rifle in its own right, and easier to aim grenades with given its computerized ballistic curve compensator) then the only direction the brass would be going is down, with the added advantage of easier brass recovery for recycling and whatnot. Still, I guess it's commendable that they made the best of a bad situation, although I wish they took it a little easier on the South Paws over there. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, one of the original pre-production models was a leftie version. The only reason I assume they didn't make it was cost - considering how many people are right handed, and how many left handed people join the Armed Forces, it probably wasn't cost effective to make two versions of the IW and two versions of the LSW. But, training to use the rifle if you are a leftie isn't that difficult. Just very, very annoying. As for the FN F2000, I'll agree it is a fine weapon from what I've seen (I've never had the pleasure to use one) and the downwards brass was a perfect idea. And it's the British Armed Forces. We usually end up trying to make the best out of shite situations... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

This is a somewhat old article criticizing the SA80 series, but I think I'd like to hear how much of it has been proven false or true by the test of time. [http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html] --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that takes me back... An interesting read. One of the main 'design flaws' that 'experts' commented on at the time was the lack of a 7.62 round and how the SA80 was fully automatic. Do you know what squaddies were doing in the Falklands War to get their 7.62 SLRs to fire in full (well, burst)? Sticking match sticks in the chamber. Half the 'experts' complaints against the SA80 are old traditionalists who want the British Army to go back to 'ye olde glory days' of the 'mad minuite' with Lee-Enfields. Note of importance - Taking information from ARRSE, like that article did in places, will not end well. It is a joke version of wikipedia, edited by the squaddies and ex-servicemen of the British Army - it generally takes the mick out of anything and everything. It always point out flaws and then exaggerates them. However - I will accept that the L85 does indeed have a problem shooting round left corners. But - I've never faced problems with fumes, like it mentions some have. However, when 25 men are all shooting their rifles whilst in a small room, I have had problems... And 2002 - it was just after the A2s had some out. The unit involved in this (that reported the faults) was one of the RM groups in Afghanistan - it was pointed out that the reason their A2s weren't working was because they hadn't actually cleaned them. As in, ever. 8 years on, with a rigorous and well taught cleaning system and with better internals, the A2 is functioning well - like I said, I only ever had 3 jams in service. The only problem they have now is weight. As the last line from ARRSE says, "the nice new versions aren't that bad, really. However, johnny squaddie is likely to always miss the nice destructive power that the SLR gave him, and so the whingeing will continue for a long time"
:The guys in the Falklands were getting full auto FAL's by using captured Argentinian gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 11:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Never seen, heard or read anything suggesting they used any captured rifles - where'd you find that out? I've only ever seen the '3 match trick' used by the British forces in the Falklands campaign, but I suppose some units may have 'borrowed' the Argentinian rifles. That the SA80 comes as standard with full-auto as an option is good in my books. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::Aren't L1A1 magazines incompatible with FAL magazines? It would probably be a bit confusing if they picked up weapons that looked and felt otherwise identical (aside from the full auto, of course) only to find that their mags wouldn't fit and the captured ammo stocks wouldn't fit their guns. At least it meant that they could capture loose 7.62mm cartridges, which would probably ease logistics since they'd have less worries about running low on ammo if they went a while without resupply. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 01:07, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

== Upgraded LSW ==

Does anyone have any photographs, videos or anything showing the supposed new version of the LSW, using the Daniel Defence rail system, and having the outrigger/bipod system changed? If not I think it should be removed from the article, as I suspect it is pure conjecture.

:- It is somewhat extraneous info, but I don't see what it hurts, really. We've had similar 'extra' info posted about movies and shows on their respective pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::I have no problem with information like this being on here, its just that I am fairly sure in this case it is wrong, as I have heard hide nor hair about this upgrade except on this entry. Even in the rare cases when you see the crow cannon being used these days, it is just the standard A2 version, maybe with an ACOG if you are lucky.

::: Boom: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/03/latest-l85a2-model/ Looks kinda ugly if you ask me --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 20:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::::That isn't the LSW, but the regular IW with the current array of mods.--[[Special:Contributions/80.177.215.100|80.177.215.100]] 20:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::The only photo I've ever seen of one with the new rail system is property of the BBC, and was used in an item about the defence budget/cuts in November. As in, it was part of a film. There are photos of the new Elcan update (only on an L85 so far), taken at an arms fair in London, 2009, when the company announced that the MoD intended to have the Elcan Spectres by 20...11 I think. [[Spanner|Spanner]]

Ok, I've found a photo of the current L86, (Pre-Elcan Spectre Optic upgrade) with an ACOG. Still can't find the pic with the Elcan, but this should do. (Since I do not own the photo I'll link you to the forum, 10 post down on page 12) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87669&page=12 --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L22A2 ==

Just a small niggle, but contrary to what the article currently says, the current issue SA80 carbine is the L22A2. The confusion comes from the fact that the L22A1 version was made but never widely issued, if at all, and I believe that this version is what is labelled as the L22 prototype in the article. I'm not sure if the original version was designated as the L22A1 at the time or whether this is a backronym, but current official MOD documents refer to the current version as "CARBINE, 5.56, L22A2", and this is backed up by the Light Weapons group at the UK's Defence Academy at Watchfield, who claim to have possibly the last remaining L22A1. Does anyone know something I don't meaning it shouldn't be changed? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

No, you're right, it and all linked pages should be changed. The issue weapon is the L22A2 according to restricted documents and receiver markings, though you will find an image of a carbine (not either of the earlier prototype attempts either) marked 'L22A1' from which this misunderstanding has arisen. Even if one example of an 'A1' does exist, this does not change the fact that the issue weapon is the A2. [[User:Big les|Big les]] 18:02, 17 May 2012 (CDT)

== L64 Service? ==

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the Wikipedia article was that the XL64 actually ''saw service'' with the Brits from the 1960s to 1980s. Is this true, or am I just mis-interpreting things?[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 05:25, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
To my knowledge during that time it was L1A1's and M16 types, as the rifles for squadies, and other weapons for support troops, MGs, Snipers and the like.

Most likely limited service for field testing. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::The information surrounding this is difficult to find, and conflicting at best. Different books say different things, and hell, the British Army's technical museum (REME) and the ordanance museum (RA) say different things. The (X)L64 (and XL65 LSW)did see field testing in the very late 60's to mid 70's (around '78 the 5.56mm XL70- series arrived). There are a handful of photos showing this. Did it see ''combat'' service? Well, a handful of sources have suggested that the Royal Marines/SBS used the L64 and XL70 in the Falklands - however, I have yet to see proof that they did. The XL70E3 did see service in Northern Ireland. The M16 only saw service with one unit at the time IRRC, - the Paras, in Northern Ireland - the date for the photos I have been shown is 1982 - the M16 never saw mass use in the British forces. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's off-topic in any case, but at least 6000 AR15 and M16 rifles were purchased for issue, primarily for jungle warfare and SF. Depends what you mean by 'mass'. [[User:Big les|Big les]] 18:04, 17 May 2012 (CDT)

== L85A1 flash hider ==

In the top screenshot for the L85A1 (the rifle with the iron sights) it is fitted with a shorter flash hider. I've never seen this kind of flash hider on an L85A1, does anyone know if this was ever fitted, or is this some kind of modification to the L85A1 to fit a permanent inside the barrel BFA? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The photo looks oddly like the Prexis (American civvi market semi-auto) clone of the L98A1 cadet rifle. The PR85 has that flash hider, but I can't remember if the L98s had it or not. I've only ever seen that flash hider on that pic.
:::Do you have a pic of this, as I have done a search and can only find pictures of the prototype kit, and it appears to use the standard flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I think I should point this out - the L85 with 40mm launcher isn't real. It's a STAR L85A2 airsoft gun, with ARES launcher. I know this because the photo was first posted on an airsoft site, by someone I know. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
:That makes sense. Have never seen the combination of iron sights and UGL, probably because UGL is only used by front line units, which will always use optics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The real give away for me that it was the guy's skirmishing replica was the carpet floor tiles its resting on... As for the PR85, the photo on the sight is different from when I first came across it last year (it now has the real flash hider) One other thought I've had on this - it could be one of the first LSW flash hiders. The last prototype A1 LSWs had similar flash hiders (and were unable to fit bayonets)
So, my thoughts are it could be a prototype. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Questions about Carbines ==

Two questions to knowledgeable ones about carbines:

Is L85 Carbine a fictional version made up by AirSoft manufacturers and is there an Iron Sights version of L22 Carbine?

Do you mean the carbine with the handguard from the LSW?
I'm not 100% sure on the numbers, but I believe RSOV made around 100 of them as prototypes. They were issued on very limited basis to tank crews. They never (officially anyway) made it into A2 status. They were a fine example of 1980s British engineering (done on the cheap and as quickly as possible!) - they were standard L85s with the barrels sawn off (literally) and the LSW's handguard bolted on. They were cheaper to make than the L22/AFV/SA80K which required new gas block parts.
As for the L22 (which is in service in all British Forces under the name SA80K-A2 instead of the usual land 'L' designation), I have honestly never seen them without a SUSAT. That said I can't see the point in them using iron sights, as the gas-block (where the front iron sight on all SA80 types is mounted) has been moved so far back and made flush with the receiver, the front iron sight would be an inch away from the rear sight/carry handle... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Magazine placement ==

What benefit does this weapon have with the mag being in the rear instead of in front of the trigger?
:This layout is called a bullpup, and the benefit is having a longer barrel in a shorter weapon. The L85 has a slightly longer barrel than an M16A2, but the overall length is about 25% shorter. It is about the same size as an M4 (more or less depending on the stock position) and yet the barrel is about 40% longer. It is a trade off though, as it can only be fired right handed and the the ergonomics are arguably not as good as on a traditionally laid out rifle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:05, 13 May 2012 (CDT)
::More specifically, the L85 can't be fired left-handed. Most bullpups provide either a downward or forward ejection of spent casings to make it ambidextrous, or at least allow soldiers to swap some parts around to make it eject to the left, but the L85 has no such provision and all soldiers are trained to fire on their right shoulder. This can become an issue with going around right-hand corners, since you need to expose more of your body to aim if the gun is on the same side as the corner. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 01:07, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
:::I wouldn't say that most bullpups have forward ejection to make them ambidextrous, as far as I'm aware the only assault rifles that have this are the [[FN F2000]] and [[A-91]]. However, more bullpups (not the L85) have ejection ports on both sides of the weapon and by assembling the rifle differently after cleaning or switching a couple of parts can be converted to left side ejection. This solves the problem for left handed users, however this cannot be done quickly so the gun still cannot be used as effectively as a conventional rifle if you want to aim around a weak side corner. The prototypes of the SA80 were made in left handed versions, but when it came to making the final weapon it was decided it wasn't worth the expense of this or making it convertible. As there are relatively very few civilian weapons in the UK most recruits first experience of shooting is when they are taught when they join up, so teaching a lefty to shoot righty is not as big a problem as it would be in a country where more people would already have shooting experience. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
::::You misunderstood me, though understandably. I wasn't implying that most bullpups are forward ejection, just that most provide some way to be used ambidextrously. For the record, another forward-ejecting bullpup is the Kel-Tec RFB. I still think any bullpup should be manufactured with forward or bottom ejection, since it can be quite a bit more dangerous to go around a right-hand corner if you're not shooting lefty. I actually experimented with it last night to check that I was making a good point, and much more of my body is exposed if I don't switch shoulders since I need to lean farther out. Good tactical sense (as well as good "staying alive" sense) is to expose as little of your body as necessary to things that kill it if you don't have to. It's a bit shameful when soldiers have to take riskier actions due to poor design. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:05, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
So would a weapon such as a...M16A2 be a better choice over a...TAR 21?
:It really depends on you. Both weapons are battle proven and reliable and they both shoot the same type of ammo and accept the same type of magazines. For a military or police, it depends on which is more cost effective, for personal use, it depends on if you like bullpup weapons or do you prefer a more traditional layout. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:25, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::I haven't used a TAR-21. But I can say that if your gun gives you the choice of exposing an unsafe amount of your body to gunfire needlessly or getting sprayed in the face by pieces of smoking hot brass shooting out of a chute, something's gone wrong with your design process. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 23:28, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Enfield SA80

2012-05-17T23:04:28Z

Big les: /* L22A2 */

:Too bad I will probably never have the chance to handle one of these-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh... I could live without messing with one. The fact that it is the main battle rifle of the army, but SAS does not use it says a lot to me. I'll follow the highly trained experts who have the choice in what to carry and from what I've mostly read that choice is a M4 variant. [[User:Eagleye1022|Eagleye1022]] 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

::Seeing as I shoot left-handed, this weapon sounds like it'd be a major pain in the ass for me to shoot. Good thing the U.S. uses [[M16 rifle series|M16 & M4-series]] weapons instead. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

:::The British forces are trained to use it right-handed. Yes, its a pain, but it's fairly easy to do, and after a while you get used to it. The A2, and now the newer A2-mk2 are very nice and reliable - just as good as the newer M16 and M4s. One of the reasons the Hereford Gun Club doesn't use the SA80 family is because (aside from the original L85's poor reliability) is because no-one else uses it. (Aside from the defense force of Jamaica and one or two other places). If someone sees them using the L85 (or L86) they can easily guess who's popping in for a visit.

::::I've shot the SA80A2 pretty extensively in field conditions, and never had a jam with it. It's got a lot of good features as a soldier (short, easy to clean, very slick sling setup), but as a serious shooter there's a lot to dislike. Shitty trigger, hard to reach controls, poor ergonomics in the grips. I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying one in Afghanistan, but I was much happier with my C7. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

:::::I found this little bit of information interesting (from a visit to REME's museum and technical museum) - one of the prototypes for the L85 (XL68 I think) was actually left handed. Also, the L86 prototypes had a changeable barrel - it was effectivly a bullpup bren-gun - I wonder why these features never made it into production - time saving I suppose. [[user:Spanner|Spanner]]
::::::Probably because said feature is unnecessary in an assault rifle. Changeable barrels are used on machine guns because they fire a ton of rounds in a short period of time and rapidly overheat, so switching barrels allows them to keep up the rate of fire without destroying the barrel or waiting for it to cool. An assault rifle won't be firing nearly enough ammo to overheat, so it's not a feature you really need to keep. If you're using standard assault rifles with standard magazines in the LMG role, something's gone badly wrong with your logistics. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 00:50, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

==Excessive Variants==
This page has too many SA80 variants that have not appeared in any films/games/animes, it needs to be cut down. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:I removed the L98 section and listed their appearance according to each variant.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Beta-C Compatibility? ==

Does anyone know if any of the SA80-series weapons, such as the L86A1 & L86A2 LSW variants, can use Beta-C drum magazines? I know they can handle all [[M16 rifle series|STANAG]] box magazines, but the design of the SA80's magazine well makes me wonder wether it could take the Beta-C or not. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:In theory it should be able to fit and feed from Beta-C mags, but I think the postiton of the Mag-well, given the bullpup configuration of the weapon, would make it impractical to use, given that it would mean the mag would be in the way of your arm when holding the weapon. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Anyone remember the old quad-stacked magazines they used to have for the Suomi M31,(http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg52-e.htm), anyone think that we could bring back that concept? Yeah it wouldn't be the 100 rounds in the Beta-C, but it could potentially make any rifle that can accept STANAG Magazines into a light automatic weapon. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]

::: No, i don´t think so, for a LaW use an Ultimax or FN Minimi.-[[User:Markost|Markost]] 15:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: Which is what the Birtish Army has done, replaced the L86A2 with the FN Minimi Para (L110A1) in the LSW role, and using the L86A2 in the DMR role with a conventional STANAG Magazine. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'd pick the Ares Shrike out of the lot myself. Light weight, compact, dual belt and magazine feed, rifleman accuracy... what more could one ask for? If only they could get the damned thing into widespread production, it would have been a shoe-in for the USMC IAR program. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::It seems to be doing pretty well in its new DRM role, although a newer version of the A2 is being released - foreguard replaced with the new RAS-guard (and grip-pod), and the outrigger along the barrel has been removed. Various new optics have been trialed, the ACOG is a UOR, until the new Spectre Elcan can be brought in.

:::::::You couldn't really use a Beta C mag in an SA80, espescially if you were wearing a vest. I don't think it would necessarily get in the way of your arm, and it would fit in the mag well, but it would definately get in the way of your chest. Both in the firing position, and the carry - remember with the SA80 sling (slick set-up by the way, I wish you could mount one on a C7) you carry it across your chest. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

::::::::If you fitted a C mag or stacked/clamped magazines into an L85 or L86 the magazine would get in the way of the mag release button and you'd need a screwdriver or multitool to get the mag release to work. The C mag itself wouldn't get in the way of your chest unless you were wearing a vest or rucksack, but it definitely gets in the way of your trigger hand. -[[User:HairySteve|HairySteve]]

==New title==
Is the new title okay?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Overhaul. ==

I'm move several items around this page, as evidently, someone is unable to tell the difference between 1994 and 2008.
Soldier Soldier did indeed use the SA80. However, due to the time it was filmed, and the years it was set, it did not use the A2. Infact, because this was several years '''before''' 2002 the A2 was not in existance yet. Indeed, some of the problems which resulted with the A2's creation had yet to be found (i.e. poor conditions in sand)

Also, there are one or two blindingly obvious errors, for example, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, the IL86 is obviously an A1 (inverted for 'coolness'). This is obvious because: a)the cocking handle is round and b)the in-game story details practically state it is the A1...

*Infact, it appears that most of the TV appearances of the A2 are the A1. Bugs/Stealth, Soldier Soldier, Firefly, Situation Critical, Zero Hour and Battlestar Galactica. These are A1 models used in the show, and because of the Pre-2002 release date of the A2 to the UK armed forces. Dr Who and Ultimate Force are the only TV shows which actually have A2s in them!

== Enfield Prototypes ==

Since these are part of the SA80 family - should they be added?

I'm talking about the late 60's and early 70's models - such as the XL64ES (which has made an appearance, in The Professionals) and the XL70E3 (and others) (Fallout 1 and 2). Use 7.62 NATO and 4.95 British. Latter models used the 5.56 after the US orders NATO to follow suit.

Hell, maybe put the EM-2 in?

I won't to anything until anyone suggests it, but at the moment non of the prototypes have a page/place to link to.

Only if they've actually been used in something. Same reason we don't have the L98s on here. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Ah cheers for putting them up. XL70 appeared in a big mod for Fallout 3 (but blue. P90, G3, Desert Eagle and a load of others appeared in it). You might want to put it up, since you've also put Project Reality. But, I'll leave that choice for you.

== Quad-Rails Updates ==

Anyone got a picture of them? --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.218.80|190.176.218.80]] 01:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

:after a quick search of the net, it appears most of the ones google has to show are either airsoft replicas with the real thing (STAR & Ares can accept it) or complete airsoft replicas. The BBC had some film of soldiers in Afghanistan talking to the Minister of Defence, Dr Liam Fox (sp?), and one of them handed him the new L86A2 - complete with Elcan Spectre and quad-rails.

== Where did they go wrong? ==

If these bullpup rifles are so bad, then what did the designers do wrong that the Steyr AUG, the FN F2000, and the FAMAS do right (just to keep it all European-designed and chambered in 5.56mm NATO)? Why didn't the British Gov't just buy some of the aforementioned rifles for their troops? By the way, if casing ejection is such a problem for bullpups, how much would it cost to license the forward-ejection system (which is patented) of the FN F2000 for the SA80? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: More than it would cost just to drill everyone to shoot right-handed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::They are not so bad. Having used the A1 and A2, and an M16A4 (I think...A3 or A4) and a(Canadian)M4 in exchange exercises, I would pick an L85 everytime.
The original prototypes that the MoD decided to buy were hand made - and were very reliable - in terms of few jams, few parts broken, etc. The actual production models were mass produced, quickly and cheaply. Cheap mass production will not produce the same level of quality and performance as hand made.
"Buy another rifle" ok...well, at the time, only the FAMAS and AUG were avalible on the market. The SA80 project had been running since the mid 1960's, and produced several good prototypes (XL64, XL70E, the LSW, all of them hand made) If you mean why didn't the MoD replace the SA80 in 2000 - think of the costs. New rifles, spare parts, repair kits, training for the armourers, training for the soliders. Considering at the time H&K were British owned, and running out of Nottingham, it was cheaper and easier to simply have the SA80 updated. In the British army you are trained to become right-handed when shooting. No exceptions. Otherwise, firing down range could become...'interesting' with cases being (literally) ejected left, right and centre. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the SA80 family, apart from the weight (especially with the SUSAT). If I was still in service, I'd take an L85 over other assault rifles any day.
:You seem to forget that the SA80 series is very unreliable and fragile, including the "improved" A2 models.
:: No more so than the M16 series. At least the SA80 wasn't sabotaged by the brass. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:::@whoever posted before The Weird It - have you ever used them? 'Unreliable' - if you forget to clean or look after your rifle, don't expect it to work. Look after it, like you're taught to at training. Never had a problem with any of the A2s I got asigned, and I used them for four years, and the A1s for 5 years. And fragile? For Christ's sake, most of the rifle is made of steel! The only parts I would call fragile are the plastic pistol grips and foreguards, and that was after some berk ran a landrover over one...
::::For one, I'm not a big fan of the M16 series ether, the M16 and SA80 both can be very unreliable in actual combat conditions with sand or mud. Secondly, No, I have never used a SA80 because I'm American. Thirdly, I think it's just stupid for a combat weapon needing to be cleaned frequently, I mean come! Keeping a weapon clean in muddy or sandy combat conditions is a Oxymoron. A true combat weapon should not have to be clean to be reliable. Just a question, have you actually used your SA80s in severe combat conditions, with the rain, mud, and sand (Just so I can know, not to be critical or rude). And when you say steel, you mean the cheap stamped-steel the weapon is made out of, I heard it dents very easily and screws up the rifle badly (Interestingly, most AKs are made with stamped-steel too, but of a thicker gauge). I think an assault rifle should be made out of stainless-steel and ultra-tough plastic, that way it will need little to no cleaning at all and it will be extremely durable and reliable. The H&K G36 is the only rifle I know that's fairly close to that, it being made out of anti-corrosive finished steel and tough plastic and it is one of the finest assault rifle systems in the world next to AK series.
:::::Yes, I've used it in 'severe' combat conditions. The A1 had problems - but in the 4 years I used my A2s, I only ever had 3 jams. Yes, cleaning a gun is wasted time, but it has to be done for most firearms. That said - I've chucked my L85 into thick mud for a while and then still been able to fire off a few magazines without problem. The whole "SA80s jam when dirty" and "SA80s are unreliable" stuff was only really true for the A1s. The steel is thin - but not that thin. I have seen dents on L85s - but that was because someone had shot it, when the squaddie carrying it had used it as an improvised flak vest. The L85, whilst dented, was still perfectly functioning. Now, the magazines - the orrigional magazines were made of very thin and awful steel. Those dented very easily, and they did cause problems for the gun - which is why they were replaced. A year or so back I read an article, about what the MoD would replace the SA80 with (in 2025) - the idea was, keep the SA80 design - but rebuild it with the same high-quality polymers and light-wieght, non-corrosive metals used in the G36 (as you mentioned). I liked the idea - but I haven't heard anything since, and quite frankly, haven't bothered looking into it. I agree with you - the G36 is a fine weapon, due to it's materials - but you still have to look after it. If the SA80 was re-designed and rebuilt using the materials of the G36 (or similar), it would be a much better weapon system. I'll agree that the SA80 family has problems - the LSW is useless as an LSW, ''but'' is very good as a DMR, the IW is heavy, until recently it was almost impossible to attatch modern 20mm gear to it (I had to screw a strip of RiS to my old foreguard so I could put a foregrip on) - hell, most weapon systems have a downfall or disadvantage - but my point remains. Whilst the SA80 series does indeed have problems - they are fine weapons, and really deserve far more credit than they get. And modern materials could improve the weapon greatly.
::::::Thank you for putting the SA80 in a new light for me. :) So the A1 sucks and the A2 is pretty good, kind of like how the M16 sucks but M16A2/A4 is pretty good. I did not mean you never have to clean the G36 off, but if you get mud or sand in it, you won't have to worry about it. I've seen videos of the G36 (and the HK416) put in to vats of mud and then pulled and fire several mags with out a problem. ;) btw, I still think assault rifles being made out of stainless-steel and plastic is diffidently the way to go. I came up with my own design for a stainless-steel and plastic, 7.62 NATO, 32 round, bull-pup assault rifle. ;)
:::::::Yes, a good comparison would probably be the origional M16s and then the updated version (although, we were told right from the start that the SA80 needed cleaning, I suppose it was just to avoid similar problems)

If they had chosen the FN F2000 (which is a fine rifle in its own right, and easier to aim grenades with given its computerized ballistic curve compensator) then the only direction the brass would be going is down, with the added advantage of easier brass recovery for recycling and whatnot. Still, I guess it's commendable that they made the best of a bad situation, although I wish they took it a little easier on the South Paws over there. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, one of the original pre-production models was a leftie version. The only reason I assume they didn't make it was cost - considering how many people are right handed, and how many left handed people join the Armed Forces, it probably wasn't cost effective to make two versions of the IW and two versions of the LSW. But, training to use the rifle if you are a leftie isn't that difficult. Just very, very annoying. As for the FN F2000, I'll agree it is a fine weapon from what I've seen (I've never had the pleasure to use one) and the downwards brass was a perfect idea. And it's the British Armed Forces. We usually end up trying to make the best out of shite situations... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

This is a somewhat old article criticizing the SA80 series, but I think I'd like to hear how much of it has been proven false or true by the test of time. [http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html] --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that takes me back... An interesting read. One of the main 'design flaws' that 'experts' commented on at the time was the lack of a 7.62 round and how the SA80 was fully automatic. Do you know what squaddies were doing in the Falklands War to get their 7.62 SLRs to fire in full (well, burst)? Sticking match sticks in the chamber. Half the 'experts' complaints against the SA80 are old traditionalists who want the British Army to go back to 'ye olde glory days' of the 'mad minuite' with Lee-Enfields. Note of importance - Taking information from ARRSE, like that article did in places, will not end well. It is a joke version of wikipedia, edited by the squaddies and ex-servicemen of the British Army - it generally takes the mick out of anything and everything. It always point out flaws and then exaggerates them. However - I will accept that the L85 does indeed have a problem shooting round left corners. But - I've never faced problems with fumes, like it mentions some have. However, when 25 men are all shooting their rifles whilst in a small room, I have had problems... And 2002 - it was just after the A2s had some out. The unit involved in this (that reported the faults) was one of the RM groups in Afghanistan - it was pointed out that the reason their A2s weren't working was because they hadn't actually cleaned them. As in, ever. 8 years on, with a rigorous and well taught cleaning system and with better internals, the A2 is functioning well - like I said, I only ever had 3 jams in service. The only problem they have now is weight. As the last line from ARRSE says, "the nice new versions aren't that bad, really. However, johnny squaddie is likely to always miss the nice destructive power that the SLR gave him, and so the whingeing will continue for a long time"
:The guys in the Falklands were getting full auto FAL's by using captured Argentinian gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 11:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Never seen, heard or read anything suggesting they used any captured rifles - where'd you find that out? I've only ever seen the '3 match trick' used by the British forces in the Falklands campaign, but I suppose some units may have 'borrowed' the Argentinian rifles. That the SA80 comes as standard with full-auto as an option is good in my books. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::Aren't L1A1 magazines incompatible with FAL magazines? It would probably be a bit confusing if they picked up weapons that looked and felt otherwise identical (aside from the full auto, of course) only to find that their mags wouldn't fit and the captured ammo stocks wouldn't fit their guns. At least it meant that they could capture loose 7.62mm cartridges, which would probably ease logistics since they'd have less worries about running low on ammo if they went a while without resupply. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 01:07, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

== Upgraded LSW ==

Does anyone have any photographs, videos or anything showing the supposed new version of the LSW, using the Daniel Defence rail system, and having the outrigger/bipod system changed? If not I think it should be removed from the article, as I suspect it is pure conjecture.

:- It is somewhat extraneous info, but I don't see what it hurts, really. We've had similar 'extra' info posted about movies and shows on their respective pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::I have no problem with information like this being on here, its just that I am fairly sure in this case it is wrong, as I have heard hide nor hair about this upgrade except on this entry. Even in the rare cases when you see the crow cannon being used these days, it is just the standard A2 version, maybe with an ACOG if you are lucky.

::: Boom: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/03/latest-l85a2-model/ Looks kinda ugly if you ask me --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 20:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::::That isn't the LSW, but the regular IW with the current array of mods.--[[Special:Contributions/80.177.215.100|80.177.215.100]] 20:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::The only photo I've ever seen of one with the new rail system is property of the BBC, and was used in an item about the defence budget/cuts in November. As in, it was part of a film. There are photos of the new Elcan update (only on an L85 so far), taken at an arms fair in London, 2009, when the company announced that the MoD intended to have the Elcan Spectres by 20...11 I think. [[Spanner|Spanner]]

Ok, I've found a photo of the current L86, (Pre-Elcan Spectre Optic upgrade) with an ACOG. Still can't find the pic with the Elcan, but this should do. (Since I do not own the photo I'll link you to the forum, 10 post down on page 12) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87669&page=12 --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L22A2 ==

Just a small niggle, but contrary to what the article currently says, the current issue SA80 carbine is the L22A2. The confusion comes from the fact that the L22A1 version was made but never widely issued, if at all, and I believe that this version is what is labelled as the L22 prototype in the article. I'm not sure if the original version was designated as the L22A1 at the time or whether this is a backronym, but current official MOD documents refer to the current version as "CARBINE, 5.56, L22A2", and this is backed up by the Light Weapons group at the UK's Defence Academy at Watchfield, who claim to have possibly the last remaining L22A1. Does anyone know something I don't meaning it shouldn't be changed? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

No, you're right, it and all linked pages should be changed. The issue weapon is the L22A2 according to restricted documents and receiver markings, though you will find an image of a carbine (not either of the earlier prototype attempts either) marked 'L22A1' from which this misunderstanding has arisen. Even if one example of an 'A1' does exist, this does not change the fact that the issue weapon is the A2. [[User:Big les|Big les]] 18:02, 17 May 2012 (CDT)

== L64 Service? ==

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the Wikipedia article was that the XL64 actually ''saw service'' with the Brits from the 1960s to 1980s. Is this true, or am I just mis-interpreting things?[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 05:25, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
To my knowledge during that time it was L1A1's and M16 types, as the rifles for squadies, and other weapons for support troops, MGs, Snipers and the like.

Most likely limited service for field testing. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::The information surrounding this is difficult to find, and conflicting at best. Different books say different things, and hell, the British Army's technical museum (REME) and the ordanance museum (RA) say different things. The (X)L64 (and XL65 LSW)did see field testing in the very late 60's to mid 70's (around '78 the 5.56mm XL70- series arrived). There are a handful of photos showing this. Did it see ''combat'' service? Well, a handful of sources have suggested that the Royal Marines/SBS used the L64 and XL70 in the Falklands - however, I have yet to see proof that they did. The XL70E3 did see service in Northern Ireland. The M16 only saw service with one unit at the time IRRC, - the Paras, in Northern Ireland - the date for the photos I have been shown is 1982 - the M16 never saw mass use in the British forces. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's off-topic in any case, but at least 6000 AR15 and M16 rifles were purchased for issue, primarily for jungle warfare and SF. Depends what you mean by 'mass'. 18:04, 17 May 2012 (CDT)

== L85A1 flash hider ==

In the top screenshot for the L85A1 (the rifle with the iron sights) it is fitted with a shorter flash hider. I've never seen this kind of flash hider on an L85A1, does anyone know if this was ever fitted, or is this some kind of modification to the L85A1 to fit a permanent inside the barrel BFA? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The photo looks oddly like the Prexis (American civvi market semi-auto) clone of the L98A1 cadet rifle. The PR85 has that flash hider, but I can't remember if the L98s had it or not. I've only ever seen that flash hider on that pic.
:::Do you have a pic of this, as I have done a search and can only find pictures of the prototype kit, and it appears to use the standard flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I think I should point this out - the L85 with 40mm launcher isn't real. It's a STAR L85A2 airsoft gun, with ARES launcher. I know this because the photo was first posted on an airsoft site, by someone I know. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
:That makes sense. Have never seen the combination of iron sights and UGL, probably because UGL is only used by front line units, which will always use optics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The real give away for me that it was the guy's skirmishing replica was the carpet floor tiles its resting on... As for the PR85, the photo on the sight is different from when I first came across it last year (it now has the real flash hider) One other thought I've had on this - it could be one of the first LSW flash hiders. The last prototype A1 LSWs had similar flash hiders (and were unable to fit bayonets)
So, my thoughts are it could be a prototype. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Questions about Carbines ==

Two questions to knowledgeable ones about carbines:

Is L85 Carbine a fictional version made up by AirSoft manufacturers and is there an Iron Sights version of L22 Carbine?

Do you mean the carbine with the handguard from the LSW?
I'm not 100% sure on the numbers, but I believe RSOV made around 100 of them as prototypes. They were issued on very limited basis to tank crews. They never (officially anyway) made it into A2 status. They were a fine example of 1980s British engineering (done on the cheap and as quickly as possible!) - they were standard L85s with the barrels sawn off (literally) and the LSW's handguard bolted on. They were cheaper to make than the L22/AFV/SA80K which required new gas block parts.
As for the L22 (which is in service in all British Forces under the name SA80K-A2 instead of the usual land 'L' designation), I have honestly never seen them without a SUSAT. That said I can't see the point in them using iron sights, as the gas-block (where the front iron sight on all SA80 types is mounted) has been moved so far back and made flush with the receiver, the front iron sight would be an inch away from the rear sight/carry handle... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Magazine placement ==

What benefit does this weapon have with the mag being in the rear instead of in front of the trigger?
:This layout is called a bullpup, and the benefit is having a longer barrel in a shorter weapon. The L85 has a slightly longer barrel than an M16A2, but the overall length is about 25% shorter. It is about the same size as an M4 (more or less depending on the stock position) and yet the barrel is about 40% longer. It is a trade off though, as it can only be fired right handed and the the ergonomics are arguably not as good as on a traditionally laid out rifle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:05, 13 May 2012 (CDT)
::More specifically, the L85 can't be fired left-handed. Most bullpups provide either a downward or forward ejection of spent casings to make it ambidextrous, or at least allow soldiers to swap some parts around to make it eject to the left, but the L85 has no such provision and all soldiers are trained to fire on their right shoulder. This can become an issue with going around right-hand corners, since you need to expose more of your body to aim if the gun is on the same side as the corner. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 01:07, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
:::I wouldn't say that most bullpups have forward ejection to make them ambidextrous, as far as I'm aware the only assault rifles that have this are the [[FN F2000]] and [[A-91]]. However, more bullpups (not the L85) have ejection ports on both sides of the weapon and by assembling the rifle differently after cleaning or switching a couple of parts can be converted to left side ejection. This solves the problem for left handed users, however this cannot be done quickly so the gun still cannot be used as effectively as a conventional rifle if you want to aim around a weak side corner. The prototypes of the SA80 were made in left handed versions, but when it came to making the final weapon it was decided it wasn't worth the expense of this or making it convertible. As there are relatively very few civilian weapons in the UK most recruits first experience of shooting is when they are taught when they join up, so teaching a lefty to shoot righty is not as big a problem as it would be in a country where more people would already have shooting experience. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
::::You misunderstood me, though understandably. I wasn't implying that most bullpups are forward ejection, just that most provide some way to be used ambidextrously. For the record, another forward-ejecting bullpup is the Kel-Tec RFB. I still think any bullpup should be manufactured with forward or bottom ejection, since it can be quite a bit more dangerous to go around a right-hand corner if you're not shooting lefty. I actually experimented with it last night to check that I was making a good point, and much more of my body is exposed if I don't switch shoulders since I need to lean farther out. Good tactical sense (as well as good "staying alive" sense) is to expose as little of your body as necessary to things that kill it if you don't have to. It's a bit shameful when soldiers have to take riskier actions due to poor design. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:05, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
So would a weapon such as a...M16A2 be a better choice over a...TAR 21?
:It really depends on you. Both weapons are battle proven and reliable and they both shoot the same type of ammo and accept the same type of magazines. For a military or police, it depends on which is more cost effective, for personal use, it depends on if you like bullpup weapons or do you prefer a more traditional layout. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:25, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::I haven't used a TAR-21. But I can say that if your gun gives you the choice of exposing an unsafe amount of your body to gunfire needlessly or getting sprayed in the face by pieces of smoking hot brass shooting out of a chute, something's gone wrong with your design process. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 23:28, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Enfield SA80

2012-05-17T23:04:02Z

Big les: /* L64 Service? */

:Too bad I will probably never have the chance to handle one of these-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh... I could live without messing with one. The fact that it is the main battle rifle of the army, but SAS does not use it says a lot to me. I'll follow the highly trained experts who have the choice in what to carry and from what I've mostly read that choice is a M4 variant. [[User:Eagleye1022|Eagleye1022]] 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

::Seeing as I shoot left-handed, this weapon sounds like it'd be a major pain in the ass for me to shoot. Good thing the U.S. uses [[M16 rifle series|M16 & M4-series]] weapons instead. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

:::The British forces are trained to use it right-handed. Yes, its a pain, but it's fairly easy to do, and after a while you get used to it. The A2, and now the newer A2-mk2 are very nice and reliable - just as good as the newer M16 and M4s. One of the reasons the Hereford Gun Club doesn't use the SA80 family is because (aside from the original L85's poor reliability) is because no-one else uses it. (Aside from the defense force of Jamaica and one or two other places). If someone sees them using the L85 (or L86) they can easily guess who's popping in for a visit.

::::I've shot the SA80A2 pretty extensively in field conditions, and never had a jam with it. It's got a lot of good features as a soldier (short, easy to clean, very slick sling setup), but as a serious shooter there's a lot to dislike. Shitty trigger, hard to reach controls, poor ergonomics in the grips. I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying one in Afghanistan, but I was much happier with my C7. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

:::::I found this little bit of information interesting (from a visit to REME's museum and technical museum) - one of the prototypes for the L85 (XL68 I think) was actually left handed. Also, the L86 prototypes had a changeable barrel - it was effectivly a bullpup bren-gun - I wonder why these features never made it into production - time saving I suppose. [[user:Spanner|Spanner]]
::::::Probably because said feature is unnecessary in an assault rifle. Changeable barrels are used on machine guns because they fire a ton of rounds in a short period of time and rapidly overheat, so switching barrels allows them to keep up the rate of fire without destroying the barrel or waiting for it to cool. An assault rifle won't be firing nearly enough ammo to overheat, so it's not a feature you really need to keep. If you're using standard assault rifles with standard magazines in the LMG role, something's gone badly wrong with your logistics. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 00:50, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

==Excessive Variants==
This page has too many SA80 variants that have not appeared in any films/games/animes, it needs to be cut down. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:I removed the L98 section and listed their appearance according to each variant.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Beta-C Compatibility? ==

Does anyone know if any of the SA80-series weapons, such as the L86A1 & L86A2 LSW variants, can use Beta-C drum magazines? I know they can handle all [[M16 rifle series|STANAG]] box magazines, but the design of the SA80's magazine well makes me wonder wether it could take the Beta-C or not. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:In theory it should be able to fit and feed from Beta-C mags, but I think the postiton of the Mag-well, given the bullpup configuration of the weapon, would make it impractical to use, given that it would mean the mag would be in the way of your arm when holding the weapon. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Anyone remember the old quad-stacked magazines they used to have for the Suomi M31,(http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg52-e.htm), anyone think that we could bring back that concept? Yeah it wouldn't be the 100 rounds in the Beta-C, but it could potentially make any rifle that can accept STANAG Magazines into a light automatic weapon. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]

::: No, i don´t think so, for a LaW use an Ultimax or FN Minimi.-[[User:Markost|Markost]] 15:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: Which is what the Birtish Army has done, replaced the L86A2 with the FN Minimi Para (L110A1) in the LSW role, and using the L86A2 in the DMR role with a conventional STANAG Magazine. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'd pick the Ares Shrike out of the lot myself. Light weight, compact, dual belt and magazine feed, rifleman accuracy... what more could one ask for? If only they could get the damned thing into widespread production, it would have been a shoe-in for the USMC IAR program. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::It seems to be doing pretty well in its new DRM role, although a newer version of the A2 is being released - foreguard replaced with the new RAS-guard (and grip-pod), and the outrigger along the barrel has been removed. Various new optics have been trialed, the ACOG is a UOR, until the new Spectre Elcan can be brought in.

:::::::You couldn't really use a Beta C mag in an SA80, espescially if you were wearing a vest. I don't think it would necessarily get in the way of your arm, and it would fit in the mag well, but it would definately get in the way of your chest. Both in the firing position, and the carry - remember with the SA80 sling (slick set-up by the way, I wish you could mount one on a C7) you carry it across your chest. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

::::::::If you fitted a C mag or stacked/clamped magazines into an L85 or L86 the magazine would get in the way of the mag release button and you'd need a screwdriver or multitool to get the mag release to work. The C mag itself wouldn't get in the way of your chest unless you were wearing a vest or rucksack, but it definitely gets in the way of your trigger hand. -[[User:HairySteve|HairySteve]]

==New title==
Is the new title okay?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Overhaul. ==

I'm move several items around this page, as evidently, someone is unable to tell the difference between 1994 and 2008.
Soldier Soldier did indeed use the SA80. However, due to the time it was filmed, and the years it was set, it did not use the A2. Infact, because this was several years '''before''' 2002 the A2 was not in existance yet. Indeed, some of the problems which resulted with the A2's creation had yet to be found (i.e. poor conditions in sand)

Also, there are one or two blindingly obvious errors, for example, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, the IL86 is obviously an A1 (inverted for 'coolness'). This is obvious because: a)the cocking handle is round and b)the in-game story details practically state it is the A1...

*Infact, it appears that most of the TV appearances of the A2 are the A1. Bugs/Stealth, Soldier Soldier, Firefly, Situation Critical, Zero Hour and Battlestar Galactica. These are A1 models used in the show, and because of the Pre-2002 release date of the A2 to the UK armed forces. Dr Who and Ultimate Force are the only TV shows which actually have A2s in them!

== Enfield Prototypes ==

Since these are part of the SA80 family - should they be added?

I'm talking about the late 60's and early 70's models - such as the XL64ES (which has made an appearance, in The Professionals) and the XL70E3 (and others) (Fallout 1 and 2). Use 7.62 NATO and 4.95 British. Latter models used the 5.56 after the US orders NATO to follow suit.

Hell, maybe put the EM-2 in?

I won't to anything until anyone suggests it, but at the moment non of the prototypes have a page/place to link to.

Only if they've actually been used in something. Same reason we don't have the L98s on here. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Ah cheers for putting them up. XL70 appeared in a big mod for Fallout 3 (but blue. P90, G3, Desert Eagle and a load of others appeared in it). You might want to put it up, since you've also put Project Reality. But, I'll leave that choice for you.

== Quad-Rails Updates ==

Anyone got a picture of them? --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.218.80|190.176.218.80]] 01:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

:after a quick search of the net, it appears most of the ones google has to show are either airsoft replicas with the real thing (STAR & Ares can accept it) or complete airsoft replicas. The BBC had some film of soldiers in Afghanistan talking to the Minister of Defence, Dr Liam Fox (sp?), and one of them handed him the new L86A2 - complete with Elcan Spectre and quad-rails.

== Where did they go wrong? ==

If these bullpup rifles are so bad, then what did the designers do wrong that the Steyr AUG, the FN F2000, and the FAMAS do right (just to keep it all European-designed and chambered in 5.56mm NATO)? Why didn't the British Gov't just buy some of the aforementioned rifles for their troops? By the way, if casing ejection is such a problem for bullpups, how much would it cost to license the forward-ejection system (which is patented) of the FN F2000 for the SA80? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: More than it would cost just to drill everyone to shoot right-handed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::They are not so bad. Having used the A1 and A2, and an M16A4 (I think...A3 or A4) and a(Canadian)M4 in exchange exercises, I would pick an L85 everytime.
The original prototypes that the MoD decided to buy were hand made - and were very reliable - in terms of few jams, few parts broken, etc. The actual production models were mass produced, quickly and cheaply. Cheap mass production will not produce the same level of quality and performance as hand made.
"Buy another rifle" ok...well, at the time, only the FAMAS and AUG were avalible on the market. The SA80 project had been running since the mid 1960's, and produced several good prototypes (XL64, XL70E, the LSW, all of them hand made) If you mean why didn't the MoD replace the SA80 in 2000 - think of the costs. New rifles, spare parts, repair kits, training for the armourers, training for the soliders. Considering at the time H&K were British owned, and running out of Nottingham, it was cheaper and easier to simply have the SA80 updated. In the British army you are trained to become right-handed when shooting. No exceptions. Otherwise, firing down range could become...'interesting' with cases being (literally) ejected left, right and centre. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the SA80 family, apart from the weight (especially with the SUSAT). If I was still in service, I'd take an L85 over other assault rifles any day.
:You seem to forget that the SA80 series is very unreliable and fragile, including the "improved" A2 models.
:: No more so than the M16 series. At least the SA80 wasn't sabotaged by the brass. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:::@whoever posted before The Weird It - have you ever used them? 'Unreliable' - if you forget to clean or look after your rifle, don't expect it to work. Look after it, like you're taught to at training. Never had a problem with any of the A2s I got asigned, and I used them for four years, and the A1s for 5 years. And fragile? For Christ's sake, most of the rifle is made of steel! The only parts I would call fragile are the plastic pistol grips and foreguards, and that was after some berk ran a landrover over one...
::::For one, I'm not a big fan of the M16 series ether, the M16 and SA80 both can be very unreliable in actual combat conditions with sand or mud. Secondly, No, I have never used a SA80 because I'm American. Thirdly, I think it's just stupid for a combat weapon needing to be cleaned frequently, I mean come! Keeping a weapon clean in muddy or sandy combat conditions is a Oxymoron. A true combat weapon should not have to be clean to be reliable. Just a question, have you actually used your SA80s in severe combat conditions, with the rain, mud, and sand (Just so I can know, not to be critical or rude). And when you say steel, you mean the cheap stamped-steel the weapon is made out of, I heard it dents very easily and screws up the rifle badly (Interestingly, most AKs are made with stamped-steel too, but of a thicker gauge). I think an assault rifle should be made out of stainless-steel and ultra-tough plastic, that way it will need little to no cleaning at all and it will be extremely durable and reliable. The H&K G36 is the only rifle I know that's fairly close to that, it being made out of anti-corrosive finished steel and tough plastic and it is one of the finest assault rifle systems in the world next to AK series.
:::::Yes, I've used it in 'severe' combat conditions. The A1 had problems - but in the 4 years I used my A2s, I only ever had 3 jams. Yes, cleaning a gun is wasted time, but it has to be done for most firearms. That said - I've chucked my L85 into thick mud for a while and then still been able to fire off a few magazines without problem. The whole "SA80s jam when dirty" and "SA80s are unreliable" stuff was only really true for the A1s. The steel is thin - but not that thin. I have seen dents on L85s - but that was because someone had shot it, when the squaddie carrying it had used it as an improvised flak vest. The L85, whilst dented, was still perfectly functioning. Now, the magazines - the orrigional magazines were made of very thin and awful steel. Those dented very easily, and they did cause problems for the gun - which is why they were replaced. A year or so back I read an article, about what the MoD would replace the SA80 with (in 2025) - the idea was, keep the SA80 design - but rebuild it with the same high-quality polymers and light-wieght, non-corrosive metals used in the G36 (as you mentioned). I liked the idea - but I haven't heard anything since, and quite frankly, haven't bothered looking into it. I agree with you - the G36 is a fine weapon, due to it's materials - but you still have to look after it. If the SA80 was re-designed and rebuilt using the materials of the G36 (or similar), it would be a much better weapon system. I'll agree that the SA80 family has problems - the LSW is useless as an LSW, ''but'' is very good as a DMR, the IW is heavy, until recently it was almost impossible to attatch modern 20mm gear to it (I had to screw a strip of RiS to my old foreguard so I could put a foregrip on) - hell, most weapon systems have a downfall or disadvantage - but my point remains. Whilst the SA80 series does indeed have problems - they are fine weapons, and really deserve far more credit than they get. And modern materials could improve the weapon greatly.
::::::Thank you for putting the SA80 in a new light for me. :) So the A1 sucks and the A2 is pretty good, kind of like how the M16 sucks but M16A2/A4 is pretty good. I did not mean you never have to clean the G36 off, but if you get mud or sand in it, you won't have to worry about it. I've seen videos of the G36 (and the HK416) put in to vats of mud and then pulled and fire several mags with out a problem. ;) btw, I still think assault rifles being made out of stainless-steel and plastic is diffidently the way to go. I came up with my own design for a stainless-steel and plastic, 7.62 NATO, 32 round, bull-pup assault rifle. ;)
:::::::Yes, a good comparison would probably be the origional M16s and then the updated version (although, we were told right from the start that the SA80 needed cleaning, I suppose it was just to avoid similar problems)

If they had chosen the FN F2000 (which is a fine rifle in its own right, and easier to aim grenades with given its computerized ballistic curve compensator) then the only direction the brass would be going is down, with the added advantage of easier brass recovery for recycling and whatnot. Still, I guess it's commendable that they made the best of a bad situation, although I wish they took it a little easier on the South Paws over there. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, one of the original pre-production models was a leftie version. The only reason I assume they didn't make it was cost - considering how many people are right handed, and how many left handed people join the Armed Forces, it probably wasn't cost effective to make two versions of the IW and two versions of the LSW. But, training to use the rifle if you are a leftie isn't that difficult. Just very, very annoying. As for the FN F2000, I'll agree it is a fine weapon from what I've seen (I've never had the pleasure to use one) and the downwards brass was a perfect idea. And it's the British Armed Forces. We usually end up trying to make the best out of shite situations... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

This is a somewhat old article criticizing the SA80 series, but I think I'd like to hear how much of it has been proven false or true by the test of time. [http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html] --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that takes me back... An interesting read. One of the main 'design flaws' that 'experts' commented on at the time was the lack of a 7.62 round and how the SA80 was fully automatic. Do you know what squaddies were doing in the Falklands War to get their 7.62 SLRs to fire in full (well, burst)? Sticking match sticks in the chamber. Half the 'experts' complaints against the SA80 are old traditionalists who want the British Army to go back to 'ye olde glory days' of the 'mad minuite' with Lee-Enfields. Note of importance - Taking information from ARRSE, like that article did in places, will not end well. It is a joke version of wikipedia, edited by the squaddies and ex-servicemen of the British Army - it generally takes the mick out of anything and everything. It always point out flaws and then exaggerates them. However - I will accept that the L85 does indeed have a problem shooting round left corners. But - I've never faced problems with fumes, like it mentions some have. However, when 25 men are all shooting their rifles whilst in a small room, I have had problems... And 2002 - it was just after the A2s had some out. The unit involved in this (that reported the faults) was one of the RM groups in Afghanistan - it was pointed out that the reason their A2s weren't working was because they hadn't actually cleaned them. As in, ever. 8 years on, with a rigorous and well taught cleaning system and with better internals, the A2 is functioning well - like I said, I only ever had 3 jams in service. The only problem they have now is weight. As the last line from ARRSE says, "the nice new versions aren't that bad, really. However, johnny squaddie is likely to always miss the nice destructive power that the SLR gave him, and so the whingeing will continue for a long time"
:The guys in the Falklands were getting full auto FAL's by using captured Argentinian gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 11:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Never seen, heard or read anything suggesting they used any captured rifles - where'd you find that out? I've only ever seen the '3 match trick' used by the British forces in the Falklands campaign, but I suppose some units may have 'borrowed' the Argentinian rifles. That the SA80 comes as standard with full-auto as an option is good in my books. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::Aren't L1A1 magazines incompatible with FAL magazines? It would probably be a bit confusing if they picked up weapons that looked and felt otherwise identical (aside from the full auto, of course) only to find that their mags wouldn't fit and the captured ammo stocks wouldn't fit their guns. At least it meant that they could capture loose 7.62mm cartridges, which would probably ease logistics since they'd have less worries about running low on ammo if they went a while without resupply. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 01:07, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

== Upgraded LSW ==

Does anyone have any photographs, videos or anything showing the supposed new version of the LSW, using the Daniel Defence rail system, and having the outrigger/bipod system changed? If not I think it should be removed from the article, as I suspect it is pure conjecture.

:- It is somewhat extraneous info, but I don't see what it hurts, really. We've had similar 'extra' info posted about movies and shows on their respective pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::I have no problem with information like this being on here, its just that I am fairly sure in this case it is wrong, as I have heard hide nor hair about this upgrade except on this entry. Even in the rare cases when you see the crow cannon being used these days, it is just the standard A2 version, maybe with an ACOG if you are lucky.

::: Boom: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/03/latest-l85a2-model/ Looks kinda ugly if you ask me --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 20:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::::That isn't the LSW, but the regular IW with the current array of mods.--[[Special:Contributions/80.177.215.100|80.177.215.100]] 20:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::The only photo I've ever seen of one with the new rail system is property of the BBC, and was used in an item about the defence budget/cuts in November. As in, it was part of a film. There are photos of the new Elcan update (only on an L85 so far), taken at an arms fair in London, 2009, when the company announced that the MoD intended to have the Elcan Spectres by 20...11 I think. [[Spanner|Spanner]]

Ok, I've found a photo of the current L86, (Pre-Elcan Spectre Optic upgrade) with an ACOG. Still can't find the pic with the Elcan, but this should do. (Since I do not own the photo I'll link you to the forum, 10 post down on page 12) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87669&page=12 --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L22A2 ==

Just a small niggle, but contrary to what the article currently says, the current issue SA80 carbine is the L22A2. The confusion comes from the fact that the L22A1 version was made but never widely issued, if at all, and I believe that this version is what is labelled as the L22 prototype in the article. I'm not sure if the original version was designated as the L22A1 at the time or whether this is a backronym, but current official MOD documents refer to the current version as "CARBINE, 5.56, L22A2", and this is backed up by the Light Weapons group at the UK's Defence Academy at Watchfield, who claim to have possibly the last remaining L22A1. Does anyone know something I don't meaning it shouldn't be changed? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

No, you're right, it and all linked pages should be changed. The issue weapon is the L22A2 according to restricted documents and receiver markings, though you will find an image of a carbine (not either of the earlier prototype attempts either) marked 'L22A1' from which this misunderstanding has arisen. Even if one example of an 'A1' does exist, this does not change the fact that the issue weapon is the A2.18:02, 17 May 2012 (CDT)

== L64 Service? ==

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the Wikipedia article was that the XL64 actually ''saw service'' with the Brits from the 1960s to 1980s. Is this true, or am I just mis-interpreting things?[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 05:25, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
To my knowledge during that time it was L1A1's and M16 types, as the rifles for squadies, and other weapons for support troops, MGs, Snipers and the like.

Most likely limited service for field testing. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::The information surrounding this is difficult to find, and conflicting at best. Different books say different things, and hell, the British Army's technical museum (REME) and the ordanance museum (RA) say different things. The (X)L64 (and XL65 LSW)did see field testing in the very late 60's to mid 70's (around '78 the 5.56mm XL70- series arrived). There are a handful of photos showing this. Did it see ''combat'' service? Well, a handful of sources have suggested that the Royal Marines/SBS used the L64 and XL70 in the Falklands - however, I have yet to see proof that they did. The XL70E3 did see service in Northern Ireland. The M16 only saw service with one unit at the time IRRC, - the Paras, in Northern Ireland - the date for the photos I have been shown is 1982 - the M16 never saw mass use in the British forces. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's off-topic in any case, but at least 6000 AR15 and M16 rifles were purchased for issue, primarily for jungle warfare and SF. Depends what you mean by 'mass'. 18:04, 17 May 2012 (CDT)

== L85A1 flash hider ==

In the top screenshot for the L85A1 (the rifle with the iron sights) it is fitted with a shorter flash hider. I've never seen this kind of flash hider on an L85A1, does anyone know if this was ever fitted, or is this some kind of modification to the L85A1 to fit a permanent inside the barrel BFA? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The photo looks oddly like the Prexis (American civvi market semi-auto) clone of the L98A1 cadet rifle. The PR85 has that flash hider, but I can't remember if the L98s had it or not. I've only ever seen that flash hider on that pic.
:::Do you have a pic of this, as I have done a search and can only find pictures of the prototype kit, and it appears to use the standard flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I think I should point this out - the L85 with 40mm launcher isn't real. It's a STAR L85A2 airsoft gun, with ARES launcher. I know this because the photo was first posted on an airsoft site, by someone I know. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
:That makes sense. Have never seen the combination of iron sights and UGL, probably because UGL is only used by front line units, which will always use optics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The real give away for me that it was the guy's skirmishing replica was the carpet floor tiles its resting on... As for the PR85, the photo on the sight is different from when I first came across it last year (it now has the real flash hider) One other thought I've had on this - it could be one of the first LSW flash hiders. The last prototype A1 LSWs had similar flash hiders (and were unable to fit bayonets)
So, my thoughts are it could be a prototype. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Questions about Carbines ==

Two questions to knowledgeable ones about carbines:

Is L85 Carbine a fictional version made up by AirSoft manufacturers and is there an Iron Sights version of L22 Carbine?

Do you mean the carbine with the handguard from the LSW?
I'm not 100% sure on the numbers, but I believe RSOV made around 100 of them as prototypes. They were issued on very limited basis to tank crews. They never (officially anyway) made it into A2 status. They were a fine example of 1980s British engineering (done on the cheap and as quickly as possible!) - they were standard L85s with the barrels sawn off (literally) and the LSW's handguard bolted on. They were cheaper to make than the L22/AFV/SA80K which required new gas block parts.
As for the L22 (which is in service in all British Forces under the name SA80K-A2 instead of the usual land 'L' designation), I have honestly never seen them without a SUSAT. That said I can't see the point in them using iron sights, as the gas-block (where the front iron sight on all SA80 types is mounted) has been moved so far back and made flush with the receiver, the front iron sight would be an inch away from the rear sight/carry handle... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Magazine placement ==

What benefit does this weapon have with the mag being in the rear instead of in front of the trigger?
:This layout is called a bullpup, and the benefit is having a longer barrel in a shorter weapon. The L85 has a slightly longer barrel than an M16A2, but the overall length is about 25% shorter. It is about the same size as an M4 (more or less depending on the stock position) and yet the barrel is about 40% longer. It is a trade off though, as it can only be fired right handed and the the ergonomics are arguably not as good as on a traditionally laid out rifle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:05, 13 May 2012 (CDT)
::More specifically, the L85 can't be fired left-handed. Most bullpups provide either a downward or forward ejection of spent casings to make it ambidextrous, or at least allow soldiers to swap some parts around to make it eject to the left, but the L85 has no such provision and all soldiers are trained to fire on their right shoulder. This can become an issue with going around right-hand corners, since you need to expose more of your body to aim if the gun is on the same side as the corner. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 01:07, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
:::I wouldn't say that most bullpups have forward ejection to make them ambidextrous, as far as I'm aware the only assault rifles that have this are the [[FN F2000]] and [[A-91]]. However, more bullpups (not the L85) have ejection ports on both sides of the weapon and by assembling the rifle differently after cleaning or switching a couple of parts can be converted to left side ejection. This solves the problem for left handed users, however this cannot be done quickly so the gun still cannot be used as effectively as a conventional rifle if you want to aim around a weak side corner. The prototypes of the SA80 were made in left handed versions, but when it came to making the final weapon it was decided it wasn't worth the expense of this or making it convertible. As there are relatively very few civilian weapons in the UK most recruits first experience of shooting is when they are taught when they join up, so teaching a lefty to shoot righty is not as big a problem as it would be in a country where more people would already have shooting experience. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
::::You misunderstood me, though understandably. I wasn't implying that most bullpups are forward ejection, just that most provide some way to be used ambidextrously. For the record, another forward-ejecting bullpup is the Kel-Tec RFB. I still think any bullpup should be manufactured with forward or bottom ejection, since it can be quite a bit more dangerous to go around a right-hand corner if you're not shooting lefty. I actually experimented with it last night to check that I was making a good point, and much more of my body is exposed if I don't switch shoulders since I need to lean farther out. Good tactical sense (as well as good "staying alive" sense) is to expose as little of your body as necessary to things that kill it if you don't have to. It's a bit shameful when soldiers have to take riskier actions due to poor design. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:05, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
So would a weapon such as a...M16A2 be a better choice over a...TAR 21?
:It really depends on you. Both weapons are battle proven and reliable and they both shoot the same type of ammo and accept the same type of magazines. For a military or police, it depends on which is more cost effective, for personal use, it depends on if you like bullpup weapons or do you prefer a more traditional layout. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:25, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::I haven't used a TAR-21. But I can say that if your gun gives you the choice of exposing an unsafe amount of your body to gunfire needlessly or getting sprayed in the face by pieces of smoking hot brass shooting out of a chute, something's gone wrong with your design process. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 23:28, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Enfield SA80

2012-05-17T23:02:38Z

Big les: /* L22A2 */

:Too bad I will probably never have the chance to handle one of these-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh... I could live without messing with one. The fact that it is the main battle rifle of the army, but SAS does not use it says a lot to me. I'll follow the highly trained experts who have the choice in what to carry and from what I've mostly read that choice is a M4 variant. [[User:Eagleye1022|Eagleye1022]] 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

::Seeing as I shoot left-handed, this weapon sounds like it'd be a major pain in the ass for me to shoot. Good thing the U.S. uses [[M16 rifle series|M16 & M4-series]] weapons instead. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

:::The British forces are trained to use it right-handed. Yes, its a pain, but it's fairly easy to do, and after a while you get used to it. The A2, and now the newer A2-mk2 are very nice and reliable - just as good as the newer M16 and M4s. One of the reasons the Hereford Gun Club doesn't use the SA80 family is because (aside from the original L85's poor reliability) is because no-one else uses it. (Aside from the defense force of Jamaica and one or two other places). If someone sees them using the L85 (or L86) they can easily guess who's popping in for a visit.

::::I've shot the SA80A2 pretty extensively in field conditions, and never had a jam with it. It's got a lot of good features as a soldier (short, easy to clean, very slick sling setup), but as a serious shooter there's a lot to dislike. Shitty trigger, hard to reach controls, poor ergonomics in the grips. I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying one in Afghanistan, but I was much happier with my C7. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

:::::I found this little bit of information interesting (from a visit to REME's museum and technical museum) - one of the prototypes for the L85 (XL68 I think) was actually left handed. Also, the L86 prototypes had a changeable barrel - it was effectivly a bullpup bren-gun - I wonder why these features never made it into production - time saving I suppose. [[user:Spanner|Spanner]]
::::::Probably because said feature is unnecessary in an assault rifle. Changeable barrels are used on machine guns because they fire a ton of rounds in a short period of time and rapidly overheat, so switching barrels allows them to keep up the rate of fire without destroying the barrel or waiting for it to cool. An assault rifle won't be firing nearly enough ammo to overheat, so it's not a feature you really need to keep. If you're using standard assault rifles with standard magazines in the LMG role, something's gone badly wrong with your logistics. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 00:50, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

==Excessive Variants==
This page has too many SA80 variants that have not appeared in any films/games/animes, it needs to be cut down. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:I removed the L98 section and listed their appearance according to each variant.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Beta-C Compatibility? ==

Does anyone know if any of the SA80-series weapons, such as the L86A1 & L86A2 LSW variants, can use Beta-C drum magazines? I know they can handle all [[M16 rifle series|STANAG]] box magazines, but the design of the SA80's magazine well makes me wonder wether it could take the Beta-C or not. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:In theory it should be able to fit and feed from Beta-C mags, but I think the postiton of the Mag-well, given the bullpup configuration of the weapon, would make it impractical to use, given that it would mean the mag would be in the way of your arm when holding the weapon. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Anyone remember the old quad-stacked magazines they used to have for the Suomi M31,(http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg52-e.htm), anyone think that we could bring back that concept? Yeah it wouldn't be the 100 rounds in the Beta-C, but it could potentially make any rifle that can accept STANAG Magazines into a light automatic weapon. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]

::: No, i don´t think so, for a LaW use an Ultimax or FN Minimi.-[[User:Markost|Markost]] 15:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: Which is what the Birtish Army has done, replaced the L86A2 with the FN Minimi Para (L110A1) in the LSW role, and using the L86A2 in the DMR role with a conventional STANAG Magazine. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'd pick the Ares Shrike out of the lot myself. Light weight, compact, dual belt and magazine feed, rifleman accuracy... what more could one ask for? If only they could get the damned thing into widespread production, it would have been a shoe-in for the USMC IAR program. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::It seems to be doing pretty well in its new DRM role, although a newer version of the A2 is being released - foreguard replaced with the new RAS-guard (and grip-pod), and the outrigger along the barrel has been removed. Various new optics have been trialed, the ACOG is a UOR, until the new Spectre Elcan can be brought in.

:::::::You couldn't really use a Beta C mag in an SA80, espescially if you were wearing a vest. I don't think it would necessarily get in the way of your arm, and it would fit in the mag well, but it would definately get in the way of your chest. Both in the firing position, and the carry - remember with the SA80 sling (slick set-up by the way, I wish you could mount one on a C7) you carry it across your chest. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

::::::::If you fitted a C mag or stacked/clamped magazines into an L85 or L86 the magazine would get in the way of the mag release button and you'd need a screwdriver or multitool to get the mag release to work. The C mag itself wouldn't get in the way of your chest unless you were wearing a vest or rucksack, but it definitely gets in the way of your trigger hand. -[[User:HairySteve|HairySteve]]

==New title==
Is the new title okay?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Overhaul. ==

I'm move several items around this page, as evidently, someone is unable to tell the difference between 1994 and 2008.
Soldier Soldier did indeed use the SA80. However, due to the time it was filmed, and the years it was set, it did not use the A2. Infact, because this was several years '''before''' 2002 the A2 was not in existance yet. Indeed, some of the problems which resulted with the A2's creation had yet to be found (i.e. poor conditions in sand)

Also, there are one or two blindingly obvious errors, for example, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, the IL86 is obviously an A1 (inverted for 'coolness'). This is obvious because: a)the cocking handle is round and b)the in-game story details practically state it is the A1...

*Infact, it appears that most of the TV appearances of the A2 are the A1. Bugs/Stealth, Soldier Soldier, Firefly, Situation Critical, Zero Hour and Battlestar Galactica. These are A1 models used in the show, and because of the Pre-2002 release date of the A2 to the UK armed forces. Dr Who and Ultimate Force are the only TV shows which actually have A2s in them!

== Enfield Prototypes ==

Since these are part of the SA80 family - should they be added?

I'm talking about the late 60's and early 70's models - such as the XL64ES (which has made an appearance, in The Professionals) and the XL70E3 (and others) (Fallout 1 and 2). Use 7.62 NATO and 4.95 British. Latter models used the 5.56 after the US orders NATO to follow suit.

Hell, maybe put the EM-2 in?

I won't to anything until anyone suggests it, but at the moment non of the prototypes have a page/place to link to.

Only if they've actually been used in something. Same reason we don't have the L98s on here. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Ah cheers for putting them up. XL70 appeared in a big mod for Fallout 3 (but blue. P90, G3, Desert Eagle and a load of others appeared in it). You might want to put it up, since you've also put Project Reality. But, I'll leave that choice for you.

== Quad-Rails Updates ==

Anyone got a picture of them? --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.218.80|190.176.218.80]] 01:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

:after a quick search of the net, it appears most of the ones google has to show are either airsoft replicas with the real thing (STAR & Ares can accept it) or complete airsoft replicas. The BBC had some film of soldiers in Afghanistan talking to the Minister of Defence, Dr Liam Fox (sp?), and one of them handed him the new L86A2 - complete with Elcan Spectre and quad-rails.

== Where did they go wrong? ==

If these bullpup rifles are so bad, then what did the designers do wrong that the Steyr AUG, the FN F2000, and the FAMAS do right (just to keep it all European-designed and chambered in 5.56mm NATO)? Why didn't the British Gov't just buy some of the aforementioned rifles for their troops? By the way, if casing ejection is such a problem for bullpups, how much would it cost to license the forward-ejection system (which is patented) of the FN F2000 for the SA80? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: More than it would cost just to drill everyone to shoot right-handed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::They are not so bad. Having used the A1 and A2, and an M16A4 (I think...A3 or A4) and a(Canadian)M4 in exchange exercises, I would pick an L85 everytime.
The original prototypes that the MoD decided to buy were hand made - and were very reliable - in terms of few jams, few parts broken, etc. The actual production models were mass produced, quickly and cheaply. Cheap mass production will not produce the same level of quality and performance as hand made.
"Buy another rifle" ok...well, at the time, only the FAMAS and AUG were avalible on the market. The SA80 project had been running since the mid 1960's, and produced several good prototypes (XL64, XL70E, the LSW, all of them hand made) If you mean why didn't the MoD replace the SA80 in 2000 - think of the costs. New rifles, spare parts, repair kits, training for the armourers, training for the soliders. Considering at the time H&K were British owned, and running out of Nottingham, it was cheaper and easier to simply have the SA80 updated. In the British army you are trained to become right-handed when shooting. No exceptions. Otherwise, firing down range could become...'interesting' with cases being (literally) ejected left, right and centre. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the SA80 family, apart from the weight (especially with the SUSAT). If I was still in service, I'd take an L85 over other assault rifles any day.
:You seem to forget that the SA80 series is very unreliable and fragile, including the "improved" A2 models.
:: No more so than the M16 series. At least the SA80 wasn't sabotaged by the brass. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:::@whoever posted before The Weird It - have you ever used them? 'Unreliable' - if you forget to clean or look after your rifle, don't expect it to work. Look after it, like you're taught to at training. Never had a problem with any of the A2s I got asigned, and I used them for four years, and the A1s for 5 years. And fragile? For Christ's sake, most of the rifle is made of steel! The only parts I would call fragile are the plastic pistol grips and foreguards, and that was after some berk ran a landrover over one...
::::For one, I'm not a big fan of the M16 series ether, the M16 and SA80 both can be very unreliable in actual combat conditions with sand or mud. Secondly, No, I have never used a SA80 because I'm American. Thirdly, I think it's just stupid for a combat weapon needing to be cleaned frequently, I mean come! Keeping a weapon clean in muddy or sandy combat conditions is a Oxymoron. A true combat weapon should not have to be clean to be reliable. Just a question, have you actually used your SA80s in severe combat conditions, with the rain, mud, and sand (Just so I can know, not to be critical or rude). And when you say steel, you mean the cheap stamped-steel the weapon is made out of, I heard it dents very easily and screws up the rifle badly (Interestingly, most AKs are made with stamped-steel too, but of a thicker gauge). I think an assault rifle should be made out of stainless-steel and ultra-tough plastic, that way it will need little to no cleaning at all and it will be extremely durable and reliable. The H&K G36 is the only rifle I know that's fairly close to that, it being made out of anti-corrosive finished steel and tough plastic and it is one of the finest assault rifle systems in the world next to AK series.
:::::Yes, I've used it in 'severe' combat conditions. The A1 had problems - but in the 4 years I used my A2s, I only ever had 3 jams. Yes, cleaning a gun is wasted time, but it has to be done for most firearms. That said - I've chucked my L85 into thick mud for a while and then still been able to fire off a few magazines without problem. The whole "SA80s jam when dirty" and "SA80s are unreliable" stuff was only really true for the A1s. The steel is thin - but not that thin. I have seen dents on L85s - but that was because someone had shot it, when the squaddie carrying it had used it as an improvised flak vest. The L85, whilst dented, was still perfectly functioning. Now, the magazines - the orrigional magazines were made of very thin and awful steel. Those dented very easily, and they did cause problems for the gun - which is why they were replaced. A year or so back I read an article, about what the MoD would replace the SA80 with (in 2025) - the idea was, keep the SA80 design - but rebuild it with the same high-quality polymers and light-wieght, non-corrosive metals used in the G36 (as you mentioned). I liked the idea - but I haven't heard anything since, and quite frankly, haven't bothered looking into it. I agree with you - the G36 is a fine weapon, due to it's materials - but you still have to look after it. If the SA80 was re-designed and rebuilt using the materials of the G36 (or similar), it would be a much better weapon system. I'll agree that the SA80 family has problems - the LSW is useless as an LSW, ''but'' is very good as a DMR, the IW is heavy, until recently it was almost impossible to attatch modern 20mm gear to it (I had to screw a strip of RiS to my old foreguard so I could put a foregrip on) - hell, most weapon systems have a downfall or disadvantage - but my point remains. Whilst the SA80 series does indeed have problems - they are fine weapons, and really deserve far more credit than they get. And modern materials could improve the weapon greatly.
::::::Thank you for putting the SA80 in a new light for me. :) So the A1 sucks and the A2 is pretty good, kind of like how the M16 sucks but M16A2/A4 is pretty good. I did not mean you never have to clean the G36 off, but if you get mud or sand in it, you won't have to worry about it. I've seen videos of the G36 (and the HK416) put in to vats of mud and then pulled and fire several mags with out a problem. ;) btw, I still think assault rifles being made out of stainless-steel and plastic is diffidently the way to go. I came up with my own design for a stainless-steel and plastic, 7.62 NATO, 32 round, bull-pup assault rifle. ;)
:::::::Yes, a good comparison would probably be the origional M16s and then the updated version (although, we were told right from the start that the SA80 needed cleaning, I suppose it was just to avoid similar problems)

If they had chosen the FN F2000 (which is a fine rifle in its own right, and easier to aim grenades with given its computerized ballistic curve compensator) then the only direction the brass would be going is down, with the added advantage of easier brass recovery for recycling and whatnot. Still, I guess it's commendable that they made the best of a bad situation, although I wish they took it a little easier on the South Paws over there. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, one of the original pre-production models was a leftie version. The only reason I assume they didn't make it was cost - considering how many people are right handed, and how many left handed people join the Armed Forces, it probably wasn't cost effective to make two versions of the IW and two versions of the LSW. But, training to use the rifle if you are a leftie isn't that difficult. Just very, very annoying. As for the FN F2000, I'll agree it is a fine weapon from what I've seen (I've never had the pleasure to use one) and the downwards brass was a perfect idea. And it's the British Armed Forces. We usually end up trying to make the best out of shite situations... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

This is a somewhat old article criticizing the SA80 series, but I think I'd like to hear how much of it has been proven false or true by the test of time. [http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html] --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that takes me back... An interesting read. One of the main 'design flaws' that 'experts' commented on at the time was the lack of a 7.62 round and how the SA80 was fully automatic. Do you know what squaddies were doing in the Falklands War to get their 7.62 SLRs to fire in full (well, burst)? Sticking match sticks in the chamber. Half the 'experts' complaints against the SA80 are old traditionalists who want the British Army to go back to 'ye olde glory days' of the 'mad minuite' with Lee-Enfields. Note of importance - Taking information from ARRSE, like that article did in places, will not end well. It is a joke version of wikipedia, edited by the squaddies and ex-servicemen of the British Army - it generally takes the mick out of anything and everything. It always point out flaws and then exaggerates them. However - I will accept that the L85 does indeed have a problem shooting round left corners. But - I've never faced problems with fumes, like it mentions some have. However, when 25 men are all shooting their rifles whilst in a small room, I have had problems... And 2002 - it was just after the A2s had some out. The unit involved in this (that reported the faults) was one of the RM groups in Afghanistan - it was pointed out that the reason their A2s weren't working was because they hadn't actually cleaned them. As in, ever. 8 years on, with a rigorous and well taught cleaning system and with better internals, the A2 is functioning well - like I said, I only ever had 3 jams in service. The only problem they have now is weight. As the last line from ARRSE says, "the nice new versions aren't that bad, really. However, johnny squaddie is likely to always miss the nice destructive power that the SLR gave him, and so the whingeing will continue for a long time"
:The guys in the Falklands were getting full auto FAL's by using captured Argentinian gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 11:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Never seen, heard or read anything suggesting they used any captured rifles - where'd you find that out? I've only ever seen the '3 match trick' used by the British forces in the Falklands campaign, but I suppose some units may have 'borrowed' the Argentinian rifles. That the SA80 comes as standard with full-auto as an option is good in my books. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::Aren't L1A1 magazines incompatible with FAL magazines? It would probably be a bit confusing if they picked up weapons that looked and felt otherwise identical (aside from the full auto, of course) only to find that their mags wouldn't fit and the captured ammo stocks wouldn't fit their guns. At least it meant that they could capture loose 7.62mm cartridges, which would probably ease logistics since they'd have less worries about running low on ammo if they went a while without resupply. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 01:07, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

== Upgraded LSW ==

Does anyone have any photographs, videos or anything showing the supposed new version of the LSW, using the Daniel Defence rail system, and having the outrigger/bipod system changed? If not I think it should be removed from the article, as I suspect it is pure conjecture.

:- It is somewhat extraneous info, but I don't see what it hurts, really. We've had similar 'extra' info posted about movies and shows on their respective pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::I have no problem with information like this being on here, its just that I am fairly sure in this case it is wrong, as I have heard hide nor hair about this upgrade except on this entry. Even in the rare cases when you see the crow cannon being used these days, it is just the standard A2 version, maybe with an ACOG if you are lucky.

::: Boom: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/03/latest-l85a2-model/ Looks kinda ugly if you ask me --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 20:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::::That isn't the LSW, but the regular IW with the current array of mods.--[[Special:Contributions/80.177.215.100|80.177.215.100]] 20:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::The only photo I've ever seen of one with the new rail system is property of the BBC, and was used in an item about the defence budget/cuts in November. As in, it was part of a film. There are photos of the new Elcan update (only on an L85 so far), taken at an arms fair in London, 2009, when the company announced that the MoD intended to have the Elcan Spectres by 20...11 I think. [[Spanner|Spanner]]

Ok, I've found a photo of the current L86, (Pre-Elcan Spectre Optic upgrade) with an ACOG. Still can't find the pic with the Elcan, but this should do. (Since I do not own the photo I'll link you to the forum, 10 post down on page 12) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87669&page=12 --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L22A2 ==

Just a small niggle, but contrary to what the article currently says, the current issue SA80 carbine is the L22A2. The confusion comes from the fact that the L22A1 version was made but never widely issued, if at all, and I believe that this version is what is labelled as the L22 prototype in the article. I'm not sure if the original version was designated as the L22A1 at the time or whether this is a backronym, but current official MOD documents refer to the current version as "CARBINE, 5.56, L22A2", and this is backed up by the Light Weapons group at the UK's Defence Academy at Watchfield, who claim to have possibly the last remaining L22A1. Does anyone know something I don't meaning it shouldn't be changed? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

No, you're right, it and all linked pages should be changed. The issue weapon is the L22A2 according to restricted documents and receiver markings, though you will find an image of a carbine (not either of the earlier prototype attempts either) marked 'L22A1' from which this misunderstanding has arisen. Even if one example of an 'A1' does exist, this does not change the fact that the issue weapon is the A2.18:02, 17 May 2012 (CDT)

== L64 Service? ==

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the Wikipedia article was that the XL64 actually ''saw service'' with the Brits from the 1960s to 1980s. Is this true, or am I just mis-interpreting things?[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 05:25, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
To my knowledge during that time it was L1A1's and M16 types, as the rifles for squadies, and other weapons for support troops, MGs, Snipers and the like.

Most likely limited service for field testing. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::The information surrounding this is difficult to find, and conflicting at best. Different books say different things, and hell, the British Army's technical museum (REME) and the ordanance museum (RA) say different things. The (X)L64 (and XL65 LSW)did see field testing in the very late 60's to mid 70's (around '78 the 5.56mm XL70- series arrived). There are a handful of photos showing this. Did it see ''combat'' service? Well, a handful of sources have suggested that the Royal Marines/SBS used the L64 and XL70 in the Falklands - however, I have yet to see proof that they did. The XL70E3 did see service in Northern Ireland. The M16 only saw service with one unit at the time IRRC, - the Paras, in Northern Ireland - the date for the photos I have been shown is 1982 - the M16 never saw mass use in the British forces. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L85A1 flash hider ==

In the top screenshot for the L85A1 (the rifle with the iron sights) it is fitted with a shorter flash hider. I've never seen this kind of flash hider on an L85A1, does anyone know if this was ever fitted, or is this some kind of modification to the L85A1 to fit a permanent inside the barrel BFA? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The photo looks oddly like the Prexis (American civvi market semi-auto) clone of the L98A1 cadet rifle. The PR85 has that flash hider, but I can't remember if the L98s had it or not. I've only ever seen that flash hider on that pic.
:::Do you have a pic of this, as I have done a search and can only find pictures of the prototype kit, and it appears to use the standard flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I think I should point this out - the L85 with 40mm launcher isn't real. It's a STAR L85A2 airsoft gun, with ARES launcher. I know this because the photo was first posted on an airsoft site, by someone I know. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
:That makes sense. Have never seen the combination of iron sights and UGL, probably because UGL is only used by front line units, which will always use optics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The real give away for me that it was the guy's skirmishing replica was the carpet floor tiles its resting on... As for the PR85, the photo on the sight is different from when I first came across it last year (it now has the real flash hider) One other thought I've had on this - it could be one of the first LSW flash hiders. The last prototype A1 LSWs had similar flash hiders (and were unable to fit bayonets)
So, my thoughts are it could be a prototype. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Questions about Carbines ==

Two questions to knowledgeable ones about carbines:

Is L85 Carbine a fictional version made up by AirSoft manufacturers and is there an Iron Sights version of L22 Carbine?

Do you mean the carbine with the handguard from the LSW?
I'm not 100% sure on the numbers, but I believe RSOV made around 100 of them as prototypes. They were issued on very limited basis to tank crews. They never (officially anyway) made it into A2 status. They were a fine example of 1980s British engineering (done on the cheap and as quickly as possible!) - they were standard L85s with the barrels sawn off (literally) and the LSW's handguard bolted on. They were cheaper to make than the L22/AFV/SA80K which required new gas block parts.
As for the L22 (which is in service in all British Forces under the name SA80K-A2 instead of the usual land 'L' designation), I have honestly never seen them without a SUSAT. That said I can't see the point in them using iron sights, as the gas-block (where the front iron sight on all SA80 types is mounted) has been moved so far back and made flush with the receiver, the front iron sight would be an inch away from the rear sight/carry handle... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Magazine placement ==

What benefit does this weapon have with the mag being in the rear instead of in front of the trigger?
:This layout is called a bullpup, and the benefit is having a longer barrel in a shorter weapon. The L85 has a slightly longer barrel than an M16A2, but the overall length is about 25% shorter. It is about the same size as an M4 (more or less depending on the stock position) and yet the barrel is about 40% longer. It is a trade off though, as it can only be fired right handed and the the ergonomics are arguably not as good as on a traditionally laid out rifle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:05, 13 May 2012 (CDT)
::More specifically, the L85 can't be fired left-handed. Most bullpups provide either a downward or forward ejection of spent casings to make it ambidextrous, or at least allow soldiers to swap some parts around to make it eject to the left, but the L85 has no such provision and all soldiers are trained to fire on their right shoulder. This can become an issue with going around right-hand corners, since you need to expose more of your body to aim if the gun is on the same side as the corner. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 01:07, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
:::I wouldn't say that most bullpups have forward ejection to make them ambidextrous, as far as I'm aware the only assault rifles that have this are the [[FN F2000]] and [[A-91]]. However, more bullpups (not the L85) have ejection ports on both sides of the weapon and by assembling the rifle differently after cleaning or switching a couple of parts can be converted to left side ejection. This solves the problem for left handed users, however this cannot be done quickly so the gun still cannot be used as effectively as a conventional rifle if you want to aim around a weak side corner. The prototypes of the SA80 were made in left handed versions, but when it came to making the final weapon it was decided it wasn't worth the expense of this or making it convertible. As there are relatively very few civilian weapons in the UK most recruits first experience of shooting is when they are taught when they join up, so teaching a lefty to shoot righty is not as big a problem as it would be in a country where more people would already have shooting experience. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
::::You misunderstood me, though understandably. I wasn't implying that most bullpups are forward ejection, just that most provide some way to be used ambidextrously. For the record, another forward-ejecting bullpup is the Kel-Tec RFB. I still think any bullpup should be manufactured with forward or bottom ejection, since it can be quite a bit more dangerous to go around a right-hand corner if you're not shooting lefty. I actually experimented with it last night to check that I was making a good point, and much more of my body is exposed if I don't switch shoulders since I need to lean farther out. Good tactical sense (as well as good "staying alive" sense) is to expose as little of your body as necessary to things that kill it if you don't have to. It's a bit shameful when soldiers have to take riskier actions due to poor design. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:05, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
So would a weapon such as a...M16A2 be a better choice over a...TAR 21?
:It really depends on you. Both weapons are battle proven and reliable and they both shoot the same type of ammo and accept the same type of magazines. For a military or police, it depends on which is more cost effective, for personal use, it depends on if you like bullpup weapons or do you prefer a more traditional layout. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:25, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::I haven't used a TAR-21. But I can say that if your gun gives you the choice of exposing an unsafe amount of your body to gunfire needlessly or getting sprayed in the face by pieces of smoking hot brass shooting out of a chute, something's gone wrong with your design process. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 23:28, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Enfield SA80

2012-05-17T23:01:59Z

Big les: /* L22A2 */

:Too bad I will probably never have the chance to handle one of these-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh... I could live without messing with one. The fact that it is the main battle rifle of the army, but SAS does not use it says a lot to me. I'll follow the highly trained experts who have the choice in what to carry and from what I've mostly read that choice is a M4 variant. [[User:Eagleye1022|Eagleye1022]] 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

::Seeing as I shoot left-handed, this weapon sounds like it'd be a major pain in the ass for me to shoot. Good thing the U.S. uses [[M16 rifle series|M16 & M4-series]] weapons instead. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

:::The British forces are trained to use it right-handed. Yes, its a pain, but it's fairly easy to do, and after a while you get used to it. The A2, and now the newer A2-mk2 are very nice and reliable - just as good as the newer M16 and M4s. One of the reasons the Hereford Gun Club doesn't use the SA80 family is because (aside from the original L85's poor reliability) is because no-one else uses it. (Aside from the defense force of Jamaica and one or two other places). If someone sees them using the L85 (or L86) they can easily guess who's popping in for a visit.

::::I've shot the SA80A2 pretty extensively in field conditions, and never had a jam with it. It's got a lot of good features as a soldier (short, easy to clean, very slick sling setup), but as a serious shooter there's a lot to dislike. Shitty trigger, hard to reach controls, poor ergonomics in the grips. I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying one in Afghanistan, but I was much happier with my C7. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

:::::I found this little bit of information interesting (from a visit to REME's museum and technical museum) - one of the prototypes for the L85 (XL68 I think) was actually left handed. Also, the L86 prototypes had a changeable barrel - it was effectivly a bullpup bren-gun - I wonder why these features never made it into production - time saving I suppose. [[user:Spanner|Spanner]]
::::::Probably because said feature is unnecessary in an assault rifle. Changeable barrels are used on machine guns because they fire a ton of rounds in a short period of time and rapidly overheat, so switching barrels allows them to keep up the rate of fire without destroying the barrel or waiting for it to cool. An assault rifle won't be firing nearly enough ammo to overheat, so it's not a feature you really need to keep. If you're using standard assault rifles with standard magazines in the LMG role, something's gone badly wrong with your logistics. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 00:50, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

==Excessive Variants==
This page has too many SA80 variants that have not appeared in any films/games/animes, it needs to be cut down. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:I removed the L98 section and listed their appearance according to each variant.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Beta-C Compatibility? ==

Does anyone know if any of the SA80-series weapons, such as the L86A1 & L86A2 LSW variants, can use Beta-C drum magazines? I know they can handle all [[M16 rifle series|STANAG]] box magazines, but the design of the SA80's magazine well makes me wonder wether it could take the Beta-C or not. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:In theory it should be able to fit and feed from Beta-C mags, but I think the postiton of the Mag-well, given the bullpup configuration of the weapon, would make it impractical to use, given that it would mean the mag would be in the way of your arm when holding the weapon. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Anyone remember the old quad-stacked magazines they used to have for the Suomi M31,(http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg52-e.htm), anyone think that we could bring back that concept? Yeah it wouldn't be the 100 rounds in the Beta-C, but it could potentially make any rifle that can accept STANAG Magazines into a light automatic weapon. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]

::: No, i don´t think so, for a LaW use an Ultimax or FN Minimi.-[[User:Markost|Markost]] 15:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: Which is what the Birtish Army has done, replaced the L86A2 with the FN Minimi Para (L110A1) in the LSW role, and using the L86A2 in the DMR role with a conventional STANAG Magazine. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'd pick the Ares Shrike out of the lot myself. Light weight, compact, dual belt and magazine feed, rifleman accuracy... what more could one ask for? If only they could get the damned thing into widespread production, it would have been a shoe-in for the USMC IAR program. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::It seems to be doing pretty well in its new DRM role, although a newer version of the A2 is being released - foreguard replaced with the new RAS-guard (and grip-pod), and the outrigger along the barrel has been removed. Various new optics have been trialed, the ACOG is a UOR, until the new Spectre Elcan can be brought in.

:::::::You couldn't really use a Beta C mag in an SA80, espescially if you were wearing a vest. I don't think it would necessarily get in the way of your arm, and it would fit in the mag well, but it would definately get in the way of your chest. Both in the firing position, and the carry - remember with the SA80 sling (slick set-up by the way, I wish you could mount one on a C7) you carry it across your chest. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

::::::::If you fitted a C mag or stacked/clamped magazines into an L85 or L86 the magazine would get in the way of the mag release button and you'd need a screwdriver or multitool to get the mag release to work. The C mag itself wouldn't get in the way of your chest unless you were wearing a vest or rucksack, but it definitely gets in the way of your trigger hand. -[[User:HairySteve|HairySteve]]

==New title==
Is the new title okay?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Overhaul. ==

I'm move several items around this page, as evidently, someone is unable to tell the difference between 1994 and 2008.
Soldier Soldier did indeed use the SA80. However, due to the time it was filmed, and the years it was set, it did not use the A2. Infact, because this was several years '''before''' 2002 the A2 was not in existance yet. Indeed, some of the problems which resulted with the A2's creation had yet to be found (i.e. poor conditions in sand)

Also, there are one or two blindingly obvious errors, for example, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, the IL86 is obviously an A1 (inverted for 'coolness'). This is obvious because: a)the cocking handle is round and b)the in-game story details practically state it is the A1...

*Infact, it appears that most of the TV appearances of the A2 are the A1. Bugs/Stealth, Soldier Soldier, Firefly, Situation Critical, Zero Hour and Battlestar Galactica. These are A1 models used in the show, and because of the Pre-2002 release date of the A2 to the UK armed forces. Dr Who and Ultimate Force are the only TV shows which actually have A2s in them!

== Enfield Prototypes ==

Since these are part of the SA80 family - should they be added?

I'm talking about the late 60's and early 70's models - such as the XL64ES (which has made an appearance, in The Professionals) and the XL70E3 (and others) (Fallout 1 and 2). Use 7.62 NATO and 4.95 British. Latter models used the 5.56 after the US orders NATO to follow suit.

Hell, maybe put the EM-2 in?

I won't to anything until anyone suggests it, but at the moment non of the prototypes have a page/place to link to.

Only if they've actually been used in something. Same reason we don't have the L98s on here. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Ah cheers for putting them up. XL70 appeared in a big mod for Fallout 3 (but blue. P90, G3, Desert Eagle and a load of others appeared in it). You might want to put it up, since you've also put Project Reality. But, I'll leave that choice for you.

== Quad-Rails Updates ==

Anyone got a picture of them? --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.218.80|190.176.218.80]] 01:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

:after a quick search of the net, it appears most of the ones google has to show are either airsoft replicas with the real thing (STAR & Ares can accept it) or complete airsoft replicas. The BBC had some film of soldiers in Afghanistan talking to the Minister of Defence, Dr Liam Fox (sp?), and one of them handed him the new L86A2 - complete with Elcan Spectre and quad-rails.

== Where did they go wrong? ==

If these bullpup rifles are so bad, then what did the designers do wrong that the Steyr AUG, the FN F2000, and the FAMAS do right (just to keep it all European-designed and chambered in 5.56mm NATO)? Why didn't the British Gov't just buy some of the aforementioned rifles for their troops? By the way, if casing ejection is such a problem for bullpups, how much would it cost to license the forward-ejection system (which is patented) of the FN F2000 for the SA80? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: More than it would cost just to drill everyone to shoot right-handed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::They are not so bad. Having used the A1 and A2, and an M16A4 (I think...A3 or A4) and a(Canadian)M4 in exchange exercises, I would pick an L85 everytime.
The original prototypes that the MoD decided to buy were hand made - and were very reliable - in terms of few jams, few parts broken, etc. The actual production models were mass produced, quickly and cheaply. Cheap mass production will not produce the same level of quality and performance as hand made.
"Buy another rifle" ok...well, at the time, only the FAMAS and AUG were avalible on the market. The SA80 project had been running since the mid 1960's, and produced several good prototypes (XL64, XL70E, the LSW, all of them hand made) If you mean why didn't the MoD replace the SA80 in 2000 - think of the costs. New rifles, spare parts, repair kits, training for the armourers, training for the soliders. Considering at the time H&K were British owned, and running out of Nottingham, it was cheaper and easier to simply have the SA80 updated. In the British army you are trained to become right-handed when shooting. No exceptions. Otherwise, firing down range could become...'interesting' with cases being (literally) ejected left, right and centre. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the SA80 family, apart from the weight (especially with the SUSAT). If I was still in service, I'd take an L85 over other assault rifles any day.
:You seem to forget that the SA80 series is very unreliable and fragile, including the "improved" A2 models.
:: No more so than the M16 series. At least the SA80 wasn't sabotaged by the brass. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:::@whoever posted before The Weird It - have you ever used them? 'Unreliable' - if you forget to clean or look after your rifle, don't expect it to work. Look after it, like you're taught to at training. Never had a problem with any of the A2s I got asigned, and I used them for four years, and the A1s for 5 years. And fragile? For Christ's sake, most of the rifle is made of steel! The only parts I would call fragile are the plastic pistol grips and foreguards, and that was after some berk ran a landrover over one...
::::For one, I'm not a big fan of the M16 series ether, the M16 and SA80 both can be very unreliable in actual combat conditions with sand or mud. Secondly, No, I have never used a SA80 because I'm American. Thirdly, I think it's just stupid for a combat weapon needing to be cleaned frequently, I mean come! Keeping a weapon clean in muddy or sandy combat conditions is a Oxymoron. A true combat weapon should not have to be clean to be reliable. Just a question, have you actually used your SA80s in severe combat conditions, with the rain, mud, and sand (Just so I can know, not to be critical or rude). And when you say steel, you mean the cheap stamped-steel the weapon is made out of, I heard it dents very easily and screws up the rifle badly (Interestingly, most AKs are made with stamped-steel too, but of a thicker gauge). I think an assault rifle should be made out of stainless-steel and ultra-tough plastic, that way it will need little to no cleaning at all and it will be extremely durable and reliable. The H&K G36 is the only rifle I know that's fairly close to that, it being made out of anti-corrosive finished steel and tough plastic and it is one of the finest assault rifle systems in the world next to AK series.
:::::Yes, I've used it in 'severe' combat conditions. The A1 had problems - but in the 4 years I used my A2s, I only ever had 3 jams. Yes, cleaning a gun is wasted time, but it has to be done for most firearms. That said - I've chucked my L85 into thick mud for a while and then still been able to fire off a few magazines without problem. The whole "SA80s jam when dirty" and "SA80s are unreliable" stuff was only really true for the A1s. The steel is thin - but not that thin. I have seen dents on L85s - but that was because someone had shot it, when the squaddie carrying it had used it as an improvised flak vest. The L85, whilst dented, was still perfectly functioning. Now, the magazines - the orrigional magazines were made of very thin and awful steel. Those dented very easily, and they did cause problems for the gun - which is why they were replaced. A year or so back I read an article, about what the MoD would replace the SA80 with (in 2025) - the idea was, keep the SA80 design - but rebuild it with the same high-quality polymers and light-wieght, non-corrosive metals used in the G36 (as you mentioned). I liked the idea - but I haven't heard anything since, and quite frankly, haven't bothered looking into it. I agree with you - the G36 is a fine weapon, due to it's materials - but you still have to look after it. If the SA80 was re-designed and rebuilt using the materials of the G36 (or similar), it would be a much better weapon system. I'll agree that the SA80 family has problems - the LSW is useless as an LSW, ''but'' is very good as a DMR, the IW is heavy, until recently it was almost impossible to attatch modern 20mm gear to it (I had to screw a strip of RiS to my old foreguard so I could put a foregrip on) - hell, most weapon systems have a downfall or disadvantage - but my point remains. Whilst the SA80 series does indeed have problems - they are fine weapons, and really deserve far more credit than they get. And modern materials could improve the weapon greatly.
::::::Thank you for putting the SA80 in a new light for me. :) So the A1 sucks and the A2 is pretty good, kind of like how the M16 sucks but M16A2/A4 is pretty good. I did not mean you never have to clean the G36 off, but if you get mud or sand in it, you won't have to worry about it. I've seen videos of the G36 (and the HK416) put in to vats of mud and then pulled and fire several mags with out a problem. ;) btw, I still think assault rifles being made out of stainless-steel and plastic is diffidently the way to go. I came up with my own design for a stainless-steel and plastic, 7.62 NATO, 32 round, bull-pup assault rifle. ;)
:::::::Yes, a good comparison would probably be the origional M16s and then the updated version (although, we were told right from the start that the SA80 needed cleaning, I suppose it was just to avoid similar problems)

If they had chosen the FN F2000 (which is a fine rifle in its own right, and easier to aim grenades with given its computerized ballistic curve compensator) then the only direction the brass would be going is down, with the added advantage of easier brass recovery for recycling and whatnot. Still, I guess it's commendable that they made the best of a bad situation, although I wish they took it a little easier on the South Paws over there. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, one of the original pre-production models was a leftie version. The only reason I assume they didn't make it was cost - considering how many people are right handed, and how many left handed people join the Armed Forces, it probably wasn't cost effective to make two versions of the IW and two versions of the LSW. But, training to use the rifle if you are a leftie isn't that difficult. Just very, very annoying. As for the FN F2000, I'll agree it is a fine weapon from what I've seen (I've never had the pleasure to use one) and the downwards brass was a perfect idea. And it's the British Armed Forces. We usually end up trying to make the best out of shite situations... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

This is a somewhat old article criticizing the SA80 series, but I think I'd like to hear how much of it has been proven false or true by the test of time. [http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html] --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that takes me back... An interesting read. One of the main 'design flaws' that 'experts' commented on at the time was the lack of a 7.62 round and how the SA80 was fully automatic. Do you know what squaddies were doing in the Falklands War to get their 7.62 SLRs to fire in full (well, burst)? Sticking match sticks in the chamber. Half the 'experts' complaints against the SA80 are old traditionalists who want the British Army to go back to 'ye olde glory days' of the 'mad minuite' with Lee-Enfields. Note of importance - Taking information from ARRSE, like that article did in places, will not end well. It is a joke version of wikipedia, edited by the squaddies and ex-servicemen of the British Army - it generally takes the mick out of anything and everything. It always point out flaws and then exaggerates them. However - I will accept that the L85 does indeed have a problem shooting round left corners. But - I've never faced problems with fumes, like it mentions some have. However, when 25 men are all shooting their rifles whilst in a small room, I have had problems... And 2002 - it was just after the A2s had some out. The unit involved in this (that reported the faults) was one of the RM groups in Afghanistan - it was pointed out that the reason their A2s weren't working was because they hadn't actually cleaned them. As in, ever. 8 years on, with a rigorous and well taught cleaning system and with better internals, the A2 is functioning well - like I said, I only ever had 3 jams in service. The only problem they have now is weight. As the last line from ARRSE says, "the nice new versions aren't that bad, really. However, johnny squaddie is likely to always miss the nice destructive power that the SLR gave him, and so the whingeing will continue for a long time"
:The guys in the Falklands were getting full auto FAL's by using captured Argentinian gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 11:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Never seen, heard or read anything suggesting they used any captured rifles - where'd you find that out? I've only ever seen the '3 match trick' used by the British forces in the Falklands campaign, but I suppose some units may have 'borrowed' the Argentinian rifles. That the SA80 comes as standard with full-auto as an option is good in my books. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::Aren't L1A1 magazines incompatible with FAL magazines? It would probably be a bit confusing if they picked up weapons that looked and felt otherwise identical (aside from the full auto, of course) only to find that their mags wouldn't fit and the captured ammo stocks wouldn't fit their guns. At least it meant that they could capture loose 7.62mm cartridges, which would probably ease logistics since they'd have less worries about running low on ammo if they went a while without resupply. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 01:07, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

== Upgraded LSW ==

Does anyone have any photographs, videos or anything showing the supposed new version of the LSW, using the Daniel Defence rail system, and having the outrigger/bipod system changed? If not I think it should be removed from the article, as I suspect it is pure conjecture.

:- It is somewhat extraneous info, but I don't see what it hurts, really. We've had similar 'extra' info posted about movies and shows on their respective pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::I have no problem with information like this being on here, its just that I am fairly sure in this case it is wrong, as I have heard hide nor hair about this upgrade except on this entry. Even in the rare cases when you see the crow cannon being used these days, it is just the standard A2 version, maybe with an ACOG if you are lucky.

::: Boom: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/03/latest-l85a2-model/ Looks kinda ugly if you ask me --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 20:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::::That isn't the LSW, but the regular IW with the current array of mods.--[[Special:Contributions/80.177.215.100|80.177.215.100]] 20:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::The only photo I've ever seen of one with the new rail system is property of the BBC, and was used in an item about the defence budget/cuts in November. As in, it was part of a film. There are photos of the new Elcan update (only on an L85 so far), taken at an arms fair in London, 2009, when the company announced that the MoD intended to have the Elcan Spectres by 20...11 I think. [[Spanner|Spanner]]

Ok, I've found a photo of the current L86, (Pre-Elcan Spectre Optic upgrade) with an ACOG. Still can't find the pic with the Elcan, but this should do. (Since I do not own the photo I'll link you to the forum, 10 post down on page 12) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87669&page=12 --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L22A2 ==

Just a small niggle, but contrary to what the article currently says, the current issue SA80 carbine is the L22A2. The confusion comes from the fact that the L22A1 version was made but never widely issued, if at all, and I believe that this version is what is labelled as the L22 prototype in the article. I'm not sure if the original version was designated as the L22A1 at the time or whether this is a backronym, but current official MOD documents refer to the current version as "CARBINE, 5.56, L22A2", and this is backed up by the Light Weapons group at the UK's Defence Academy at Watchfield, who claim to have possibly the last remaining L22A1. Does anyone know something I don't meaning it shouldn't be changed? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

No, you're right, it and all linked pages should be changed. The issue weapon is the L22A2 according to restricted documents and receiver markings, though you will find an image of a carbine (not either of the earlier prototype attempts either) marked 'L22A1' from which this misunderstanding has arisen. Even if one example of an 'A1' does exist, this does not change the fact that the issue weapon is the A2.[[User:Big les|Big les]]

== L64 Service? ==

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the Wikipedia article was that the XL64 actually ''saw service'' with the Brits from the 1960s to 1980s. Is this true, or am I just mis-interpreting things?[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 05:25, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
To my knowledge during that time it was L1A1's and M16 types, as the rifles for squadies, and other weapons for support troops, MGs, Snipers and the like.

Most likely limited service for field testing. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::The information surrounding this is difficult to find, and conflicting at best. Different books say different things, and hell, the British Army's technical museum (REME) and the ordanance museum (RA) say different things. The (X)L64 (and XL65 LSW)did see field testing in the very late 60's to mid 70's (around '78 the 5.56mm XL70- series arrived). There are a handful of photos showing this. Did it see ''combat'' service? Well, a handful of sources have suggested that the Royal Marines/SBS used the L64 and XL70 in the Falklands - however, I have yet to see proof that they did. The XL70E3 did see service in Northern Ireland. The M16 only saw service with one unit at the time IRRC, - the Paras, in Northern Ireland - the date for the photos I have been shown is 1982 - the M16 never saw mass use in the British forces. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L85A1 flash hider ==

In the top screenshot for the L85A1 (the rifle with the iron sights) it is fitted with a shorter flash hider. I've never seen this kind of flash hider on an L85A1, does anyone know if this was ever fitted, or is this some kind of modification to the L85A1 to fit a permanent inside the barrel BFA? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The photo looks oddly like the Prexis (American civvi market semi-auto) clone of the L98A1 cadet rifle. The PR85 has that flash hider, but I can't remember if the L98s had it or not. I've only ever seen that flash hider on that pic.
:::Do you have a pic of this, as I have done a search and can only find pictures of the prototype kit, and it appears to use the standard flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I think I should point this out - the L85 with 40mm launcher isn't real. It's a STAR L85A2 airsoft gun, with ARES launcher. I know this because the photo was first posted on an airsoft site, by someone I know. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
:That makes sense. Have never seen the combination of iron sights and UGL, probably because UGL is only used by front line units, which will always use optics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The real give away for me that it was the guy's skirmishing replica was the carpet floor tiles its resting on... As for the PR85, the photo on the sight is different from when I first came across it last year (it now has the real flash hider) One other thought I've had on this - it could be one of the first LSW flash hiders. The last prototype A1 LSWs had similar flash hiders (and were unable to fit bayonets)
So, my thoughts are it could be a prototype. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Questions about Carbines ==

Two questions to knowledgeable ones about carbines:

Is L85 Carbine a fictional version made up by AirSoft manufacturers and is there an Iron Sights version of L22 Carbine?

Do you mean the carbine with the handguard from the LSW?
I'm not 100% sure on the numbers, but I believe RSOV made around 100 of them as prototypes. They were issued on very limited basis to tank crews. They never (officially anyway) made it into A2 status. They were a fine example of 1980s British engineering (done on the cheap and as quickly as possible!) - they were standard L85s with the barrels sawn off (literally) and the LSW's handguard bolted on. They were cheaper to make than the L22/AFV/SA80K which required new gas block parts.
As for the L22 (which is in service in all British Forces under the name SA80K-A2 instead of the usual land 'L' designation), I have honestly never seen them without a SUSAT. That said I can't see the point in them using iron sights, as the gas-block (where the front iron sight on all SA80 types is mounted) has been moved so far back and made flush with the receiver, the front iron sight would be an inch away from the rear sight/carry handle... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Magazine placement ==

What benefit does this weapon have with the mag being in the rear instead of in front of the trigger?
:This layout is called a bullpup, and the benefit is having a longer barrel in a shorter weapon. The L85 has a slightly longer barrel than an M16A2, but the overall length is about 25% shorter. It is about the same size as an M4 (more or less depending on the stock position) and yet the barrel is about 40% longer. It is a trade off though, as it can only be fired right handed and the the ergonomics are arguably not as good as on a traditionally laid out rifle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:05, 13 May 2012 (CDT)
::More specifically, the L85 can't be fired left-handed. Most bullpups provide either a downward or forward ejection of spent casings to make it ambidextrous, or at least allow soldiers to swap some parts around to make it eject to the left, but the L85 has no such provision and all soldiers are trained to fire on their right shoulder. This can become an issue with going around right-hand corners, since you need to expose more of your body to aim if the gun is on the same side as the corner. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 01:07, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
:::I wouldn't say that most bullpups have forward ejection to make them ambidextrous, as far as I'm aware the only assault rifles that have this are the [[FN F2000]] and [[A-91]]. However, more bullpups (not the L85) have ejection ports on both sides of the weapon and by assembling the rifle differently after cleaning or switching a couple of parts can be converted to left side ejection. This solves the problem for left handed users, however this cannot be done quickly so the gun still cannot be used as effectively as a conventional rifle if you want to aim around a weak side corner. The prototypes of the SA80 were made in left handed versions, but when it came to making the final weapon it was decided it wasn't worth the expense of this or making it convertible. As there are relatively very few civilian weapons in the UK most recruits first experience of shooting is when they are taught when they join up, so teaching a lefty to shoot righty is not as big a problem as it would be in a country where more people would already have shooting experience. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
::::You misunderstood me, though understandably. I wasn't implying that most bullpups are forward ejection, just that most provide some way to be used ambidextrously. For the record, another forward-ejecting bullpup is the Kel-Tec RFB. I still think any bullpup should be manufactured with forward or bottom ejection, since it can be quite a bit more dangerous to go around a right-hand corner if you're not shooting lefty. I actually experimented with it last night to check that I was making a good point, and much more of my body is exposed if I don't switch shoulders since I need to lean farther out. Good tactical sense (as well as good "staying alive" sense) is to expose as little of your body as necessary to things that kill it if you don't have to. It's a bit shameful when soldiers have to take riskier actions due to poor design. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:05, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
So would a weapon such as a...M16A2 be a better choice over a...TAR 21?
:It really depends on you. Both weapons are battle proven and reliable and they both shoot the same type of ammo and accept the same type of magazines. For a military or police, it depends on which is more cost effective, for personal use, it depends on if you like bullpup weapons or do you prefer a more traditional layout. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:25, 14 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::I haven't used a TAR-21. But I can say that if your gun gives you the choice of exposing an unsafe amount of your body to gunfire needlessly or getting sprayed in the face by pieces of smoking hot brass shooting out of a chute, something's gone wrong with your design process. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 23:28, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2012-02-05T01:31:37Z

Big les: /* Enfield */

= Miscellaneous Weapons =

== SOG Knife ==
The SOG Knife is a special knife used by the player (as Alex Mason) in the mission "Victor Charlie". This is the only time the SOG Knife is in use.

[[Image:Shot0159.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SOG Knife in idle. Note the tally marks.]]

[[Image:Shot0167.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SOG Knife been drawn.]]

== Tomahawk ==
The Tomahawk axe is a melee weapon that replaces the throwing knife (or tactical knife) from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'' in mutliplayer. In single-player, it's only available on the mission "Rebirth" after obtaining it from a Russian harbor worker and killing him with it.
[[Image:Tomahawk-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tomahawk in Create-a-Class.]]
[[Image:Tomahawk-BOthrow.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Tomahawk being thrown.]]

== Ballistic Knife ==
The ballistic knife is a powerful melee weapon that available only in multiplayer and zombie modes. The knife is firing blades with a spring inside the body.

[[Image:BK-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The ballistic knife being reloaded.]]

== Main Knife ==

The knife returns in Call of Duty: Black Ops. It is still a one-hit kill, but unlike the previous versions, seems to cause a very large fountain of blood to appear after knifing an enemy.

[[Image:659px-KnifeBlackOpsMultiplayer.png|thumb|none|500px|The Main Knife in-game.]]

== Prison Knife ==

The Prison Knife is a melee weapon used in the mission "Vorkuta" in Call of Duty: Black Ops. It appears to be a jagged piece of scrap metal, similar to a 'shank' or 'shiv'. After Mason acquires another weapon, the prison knife is no longer equipped, and is only used by pressing the melee button. You can see blood on the blade, probably from stabbing the prison guard.

[[Image:624px-Prisonknife.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The Prison Knife in-game.]]

== Karambit Knife ==

The Karambit Knife is a combat knife used in the Call of Duty: Black Ops mission Executive Order. It is used to kill a Russian soldier by sticking it into the soldier's spinal cord, killing him, allowing the player and Frank Woods to take their uniform and infiltrate the launch site. Though this blade is used only by US Federal Air Marshals currently, Mason and Woods could have used it instead of a normal blade to aid in the purpose of the mission. Unlike a normal blade, it is shaped like a jungle cat's claw.

[[Image:561px-Karambit_Knife.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Karambit Knife in-game.]]

== Bowie Knife ==

The Bowie Knife is a special melee weapon which can be bought for 3000 points in Der Riese, Kino der Toten and Five. It is larger and wider than the standard combat knife in Call of Duty: Black Ops (or any Call of Duty game for that matter). It increases Knife damage from 150 to 1150, making it a one-hit-kill for zombies from Round 1 to Round 11. It is a one-hit-kill to Hellhounds all the way up until the third hellround.

[[Image:BowieKnifePolkCompetition2-1024.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The Bowie Knife in Real Life.]]

[[Image:Bowie.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Bowie Knife in-game.]]

== Crossbow ==

The Crossbow is a new weapon that featured in ''Call of Duty: Black Ops''. It is speculated to fulfill the role of a quiet, long range weapon. The crossbow appears in the campaign missions "Executive Order" and "WMD", which are set in Baikonur and the Ural Mountains, respectively. In multiplayer, crossbows only fire explosive bolts; in singleplayer, they can also fire normal bolts. Crossbows in singleplayer also often have scopes attached.

[[Image:Shot0205.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Crossbow in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0206.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Crossbow in reloading.]]

== Flamethrower ==

A flamethrower of unknown model has been confirmed to be in Call of Duty: Black Ops as found in the "GKnova6 document" which can be found here: [http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr135/priceman14/doc10.jpg]
The document only refers to it as "Improvised Weaponry" in "Phase 1 Testing" with most of the other information redacted.

Another model appears as an underbarrel attachment.

The image used by www.codblackopsblog.com
[http://www.codblackopsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Black-Ops-Weapons-Flamethrower.jpg]

Reference image of Flamethrowers in Call of Duty: World at War, a past Treyarch game that featured flamethrowers. Image from www.gameinformer.com
[http://blog.al.com/techcetera/2008/12/Pelilucodwaw.jpg]

[[Image:PSG1pic.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Flamethrower mounted on FAMAS F2 FELIN. ''Note ankward M16 handguard'']]

=Discussion=
This game has a cold war look to it
:it's supposed to, but it's also an idiotic "alternate timeline" thing where Kennedy is still alive in 1968 and there are all these weapons completely wrong to the timeline.

==AK74u==

In game, it is a ak74u, not an aks74u. U=carbine S=folding stock.
The in game models are all mssing stocks, so are only an ak74u, as they are called in game. It should be noted as such, im sick of having to re change the main page and want to get this cleared up/

I don't care if there's no stock, there's no such designation as "AK-74u". Also, try unlocking the "grip" attachment for it. That adds the stock back on. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

AK74 is base model, u means shortened, s means folding stock, etc. So chopping stock off makes it a 74u

I am fully aware of what the designations mean. Find me an actual AK-74 carbine produced from the factory without the side-folder and actually labelled "AK-74u" (cannot be simply an AKS-74U with the stock detached), and I'll gladly change it back. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:16, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

It doesnt matter how it left the factory, it matters how you modify it. If you put a 4.25 inch barrel and slide on a full sized 1911 do you call it a government model or a commander? I mean its a commander model but left the factory a government.....

This isn't the Call of Duty Wiki, kid. We don't promote misinformation as fact like they do there. We refer to and classify firearms as they are in the ''real'' world, not the ''game'' world. That means referring to it by its ''actual'' name (AKS-74U, not AK-74U) and classification (carbine, not SMG). It doesn't matter what it's called in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Im trying to put the corerect designation, maybe even note there is a ak74 u and a aks74u, remember that we cant say a gun has a folding stock if it has NO stock. a 7.5 inch barreled ar with a stock is a carbine, taking the stock of its an ar pistol, not a ar stockless rifle.

But "AK-74U" is ''not'' the correct designation. Look at the [[I Am Legend]] page and you'll note that even though Will Smith's AR is modified to appear as an M4A1 in the movie, we still classify it based on what it ''came out of the factory as'', a Colt Law Enforcement Carbine. Also not that the most recent AK iterations as well as the AN-94 all have side-folding stocks, yet no "S" in their designations. Your AR "pistol" comparison also has no validity in that those so-called "pistols" all fire the same full-sized .223 cal./5.56mm ammunition and as such are pistols ''in name only''. So like HashiriyaR32 said, unless you can provide proof of an actual real life AK-74 carbine ''factory-produced'' without a folding stock and bearing the in-game designation, it stays AKS-74U. You're in the domain of the "gun nerds" and real life fact takes priority over in-game fiction. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I've got to say I totally back Spartan. There isnt such a designation as the AK-74U, and while the 'S' does signify the side folding stock, if you took an AKS-74 and removed the stock, would you call it a regular AK-74? [[User:Chablar|Chablar]]

:No, I'd refer to it as an AKS-74 because that's what it is, regardless of the removal of the stock. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:53, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

:And another thing regarding this "AK-74U" argument I was just now dwelling upon: The AK-74 has a fixed wooden stock, right? So by that specification alone, a theoretical "AK-74U" variant would have the ''exact same fixed wooden stock as the full-size rifle''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:31, 13 April 2011 (CDT)

==Accuracy of Game==
I have Black Ops and have beaten the campaign, while the missions range from 1961 to 1968 the game is LOADED with anachronisms, im not sure an alternate reality would explain for having FAMAS F1s ( ''In fact, FELIN´s'' --[[User:Werc|Werc]]) and AUG A1s in the 1960s. Also they have the M16 in Vietnam with a so-called Masterkey system on it, im not sure that they had Masterkeys in Vietnam but it looks to be an Ithaca 37 stakeout attatched to the M16, also nearly ALL of the NVA soldiers are armed with SPAS-12 which is completely wierd. Any comments from people who have played the game?
: Yeah, you are right. If this game would be atleast fun. But its boring, MP is even worse than in MW2 ( ''And MW2 had worst MP of all'' ''times'' ), SP is boring like hell. There is nothin such as AI. Storyline is boring an unoriginal. Weapons are both anachronistic and unrealistic. Nothing like kickback even on Mosin Nagant ? '''THIS GAME SUCKS, just like MW2 did''' --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Do you get a nickel from EA every time you rag on the game? And there are many things I can say about the story, but "unoriginal" is not one of them. I have yet to play another FPS where the player is mentally ill and one of the main characters is merely a hallucination. (Unless there's an "A Beautiful Mind" FPS I don't know about.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

well i enjoyed it , and if i tape a shotgun under the barrel of my M16 why cant i call it a masterkey . simmons 8492

I think the idea of the anachronism is the fact that the game needs diverse weapons, something Vietnam didn't really have. Plus the game is about top secret operations. The reason the weapons look like that is because they are displayed as prototypes, so they could easily put whatever weapon they want, as long as they make it look "different" and make sure that the actual version was released a short while in later-Phillycheesepuff
:Who says that Vietnam didn't have Diverse weapons. Heck Russia and China used Vietnam as a dumping ground for WWII weapons they didn't need at first. MACV-SOG teams used a wide variety of weapons including in one case a .444 Marlin lever Action Rifle. Basically the people who did Black Ops read Piaster's books on SOG and then forgot the book as they just stuffed the game with whateve they though looked cool.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 14:32, 8 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Yeah! There are a crapload of unique weapons in world war 2 alone! Examples: [http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/014/2/1/UNUSUAL_Weapons_of_WWII_Part_3_by_IndonesianAWL.jpg 1] [http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/014/4/4/UNUSUAL_Weapons_of_WWII_Part_2_by_IndonesianAWL.jpg 2][http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/014/3/0/UNUSUAL_Weapons_of_WWII_Part_1_by_IndonesianAWL.jpg 3]

I know that most of the weapons in the game are anachronistic and that's a little bit sad for a cold war game, but a lot of those firearms are never seen in video games, that's one thing that made me like it. Perhaps,I enjoyed the stroryline from the begining to the end, I love the Zombie mode and the multiplayer is great (at least when I play with my friends). --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 19:19, November 11 2010 (UTC)
:If you guys are wondering, the Masterkey was invented around the 1980s and 1990s so it's anachronistic for it to be there. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:27, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Hey, who gives a crap if the weapons were anachronistic or not? yeah, alot of the guns were made in the 80's, but the game was awesome., and so was cod mod 2. so WRECK, im not saying they shouldn't take a closer look at the details, but my point is, you don't have to be a bitch about it, just play a different game. and it is only a game, it isn't gonna be absolutely perfect yet. im sure in a few years they'll have the perfect fps, but this was pretty damn close, if you ask me.

*We care, that's who. You're on a site about weapons in movies, anime and videogames. You might as well ask a site about movie mistakes why they care about "every little mistake" or a site about movie analysis why they keep "over-analysing." If you don't like what this site's about, find a CoD fansite and post there. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 12:53, 6 April 2011 (CDT)

yeah, i agree, it's really good to know all the facts an it was interesting to see everything they missed, but don't bitch about the GAME, just bitch about the DETAILS. Sorry if i came off one-sided. Semper Fi

The story was pretty good. But that was Black Ops only good point in my book. I'm thoroughly a Battlefield man now. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 15:08, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

:I agree, The story was the only thing I liked about Black Ops too, I tried to like the Zombie mode and MP but they are ''way'' too frustrating and annoying to even enjoy. Like I've said before, I still think MW1 is the best game in the series. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:06, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)
::::: "Sklopnyj" - from what language is this word? In Russian is no such word. At least I have in 41 years that have not heard:) In Russian "foldable" sounds - "Skladnoy". But also begins with the letter S.[[User:Slow Rider|Slow Rider]] 21:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

It's an Intermediate rifle, like the P90 or MP7A1, slightly smaller caliber but with an effective range between a rifle's range and a sub gun's range.
:No, that is an incorrect comparison. The AK-74U is just a compact rifle since it fires an assault rifle round, not an assault rifle "styled" rifle. The P90 and the MP7 are designed from the ground up to be PDWs that fired ammo that are necked down rifle rounds instead of pistol rounds designed with the same armor piercing power as the full size rifle. It's like the Colt Model 733 or the 933 or any of the other shorten assault rifle variants. A submachine gun is always compared to weapons that fire pistol caliber ammo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

But weapons like the SAM-R use the same caliber as 933 and 733, 5.56x45, and the SAM-R is used as a DMR. i doubt the 5.45x39 could be a marksman rifle cartridge. even though its longer than the 5.7 or 4.6, its range and accuracy are not that of a true assault rifle.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==
Hey guys, Zombie mode on Black Ops includes 2 maps, each bringing there own unique cast of characters
-Kind Der Untoten-
-All classic Nazi Zombies Characters

-Five-
-Fidel Castro (Holding Colt Python)
-John F. Kennedy (Holding China Lake Launcher)
-Richard Nixon
-Robert McNamara
These maps i have not played that much but from what i have there are these weapons
-Kind Der Untoten-
-Olympia (Over & Under)
-Walther MPL
-PM-63
-MP-40
-Mystery Box (Any number of assorted weapons)

-Five-
-Olympia
-Walther MPL

-will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

its been confermed . for news hit up black ops 24/7 . they dont have 100 percent accurate weapons lists but its the best site out there

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, the SKS, Norinco Type 54, M1 Carbine, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

::The AR-10 & AR-18 rifles instead of the G11,the Beretta PM12 instead of the Spectre, and the Steyr Mpi69 and the Sterling SMG (silenced /standard).Also a Starlight scope.--Kz77 9:24, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''
Lee Enfield SMLE/ Jungle Carbine, M1 carbine, M2 carbine, SKS, Webley, Skorpion, M1 grand, RPG-2[[User:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

if anything there going to have those guns , and ruinthem buy adding rails and underbarell shit.simmons8492

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.
Some people are still saying it could be WASR-2. It's not a WASR-2. WASR-2's are new production (within the past few years) rifles from Romania made ONLY for semi-automatic use and for importation into the US. There's no way on God's green earth that the rifle in game is a WASR-2.

More than likely this is just an AK-47 with an incorrectly modeled mag. They ARE modeling these things after airsoft guns ya know.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

im not sure but with those ironsites id say a g36 . i hope they brink the one from COD4 back i loved it. simmons 8492

In black ops there appears also a weapon that an elicoptero is in use for throwing .. it appears in the game in the level 2 as harpoon
[[Image:Harpoon.jgp]]

Unidentified gun No.4 looks like a Galil.---Matchgradeweapon

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

well am i the only one who thinks WAW did a horible job of represting the stoping power of the .45 . i mean the gun does nothing in the game , but in real life its a man stoper. simmons 8492

Game balance. That's why [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

i under stand but the walther is better in that game than the 1911. at least the .45 in COD4 had some good stopingpower to it . i know its a diffrent model but still . simmons 8492

and lucky for me , the boys at trayarc made the M1911A1 the manstoper that it is .SEMPER FI!!! simmons 8492

one thing i noticed is that some times the player racks the slide and it stays back like its empty . i dont get it. simmons 8492

Its a useless flair that can be done with a real gun by pushing up on the Slide release as you pull it back and then release it after its locked. I did it on my Hi Power after seeing it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:30, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

well the ak-74 would be good , but no one would notice the difference. most kids playing this game dont know am1911a1 from a m14 . id like to see both

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

They just couldnt be bothered to put the effort into making a third person model for the AUG so they just put a normal one on. possibly the same model holding a normal rifle, same with the FAMAS. PLUS: has anyone noticed while going in and out of Zoom for the AUG that the sights actually move up the gun even though they are supposed to be fixed--[[User:Gunfeldbach|Gunfeldbach]] 15:38, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

a littel of topic but, that guy has one of the shitties grips that i have ever seen

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

i dont think he has the globe and anchor tat , but because of him im going to grow a mullet and wear a head band shhhing people. simmons8492

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

youd be suprised what i can do with one hand. simmond 8492

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Grenade launchers are balanced, mininum detonation range, slow reload, not very accurate (need to arc) only 2 rounds, and besides, use it to take down campers.

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

Yes. Confermed on callofduty.com

as lon as he goes all predator on some one like in wold at war , im fine with in, and being as that hes a soviet why is he with the us? defector or what? simmons 8492

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

does anyone notice that most parts of the gun look like they have come from MW2's FN Scar?--[[User:Gunfeldbach|Gunfeldbach]] 17:36, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Not to mention it's impossible to actually fire one with live rounds. -Mandaloin

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::What's also stupid is that well-known wikis like Halo Wiki and COD Wiki are too strict and shit on "off-topic" comments, meaning that almost every blog post on the website are supposed to be fixed and related to the game. I mean, seriously, why can't they have some little real-world information rather than in-game information? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 15:30, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

Because it's most likely run by a bunch of 12 year olds and CoD fanboys that think their precious series can do no wrong. [[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 00:56, 17 April 2011 (CDT)

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

just for that tom jane is going to kill you with a bow and arrow. good job . and the balistic knive uses high tention (missspeled) springs, so id call it a projectial if anything. not to mension that , if you look at the rock on this site , it has the little dart shot gun that nick cage uses in the begining. simmons 8492

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it's made by Heckler and Koch judging by the stock.But that's just me.It could be and AUG prototype but who knows?---Matchgradeweapon

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

first , i had a kid tell me that the moddel 1887 is a rifel , based only on the fact that it has a lever and not a pump. i own no guns and also only pop on this site to win bets with my brother but i know that. but dose any one know if the m16 or famas have selector switches that can be changed?

Yes they do. The FAMAS can shoot on semi auto, and the M16a4 also has semi auto.[[user:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Just pitching in here but isnt the Galil what the israelis made as an improved AK-47 ? I think i heard that on the millitary channel or something (btw the price for the WA2000 these days is minimum 40 000 $ THE 2ND VERSION IS MIN 75 000 $ there was only 176 built (thank you wikipedia)--[[User:Patrickgt|℗Λ✝r][©Κ]] 04:29, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:While looking at the Create-a-class 2.0 vid shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCzSImy-xm4, I found it rather odd for the choice that Treyarch was going with on the weapon selection for the pistols at the 0:23 mark. Wouldn't it make more sense to place the Makarov PM as the starting pistol because of it's weak 9x18mm cartridge? I'd personally would have liked to see it like this:

*Makarov PM
*ASP
*1911
*Colt Python
*CZ75

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:52, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

. reality and videogames are like an amish hacker , never gonna happen . this is going to be FUCKIN EPIC . simmons 8492

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

it looks like famas had a field day and fucked everything up . the pig dosent deserve that . and for all the idiots out there reading this and thinking"whats the pig, can you use farm animals as weapona" the pig is the name for the m60 , that gun hold a special place in my heart . simmons 8492

It really looks like they just took a lot of stuff from mw2 (like those god damned iron sights) and whats the deal putting Troy industries sight on an AUG? How stupid does that even look, couldnt hit shit in real life cuz there is no spacing between the front and rear post! Come on Treyarch i tough u could do better --[[User:Patrickgt|℗Λ✝r][©Κ]] 02:45, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of SA80 or EM2, is anyone else irritated by the way he seems to reload with the wrong hand? Correct reload is with right hand still on pistol grip, change mag with left hand (as with most rifles), but in campaign at least the animation clearly shows the pistol grip bare. And don't try left-handed as an excuse, as you can't fire it left-handed or the cocking handle would hit your face and the empty cases go down your neck. Also I reckon, given the teething troubles of the SA80 first version, he should have to do a 'forward assist' and shove the cocking handle forwards every time. That would slow the reload and make the game harder, but the first version of the SA80 was a bit rubbish like that.--[[User:HLDR|HLDR]] 08:17, 27 April 2011 (CDT)

I have edited the claim that 'prototypes' of the XL64 (nonsensical since it is itself a prototype) existed in the 'early 1960s'. See 'The Last Enfield' by Steve Raw, for example.[[User:Big les|Big les]]

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/FAMAS_Felin_501556_fh000002.jpg [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

in the same video they show parts froma game called "gun game " the player swaps the M14 for the m136 . im gonna go all jessie ventura up in that bitch . simmons 8492

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::The guns don't make sense at all, not just because of the era. I mean flamethrower attachments, handheld miniguns, the same rear sight on many guns, 20-round mags holding 30 rounds, semi-auto shotguns impossibly cycling with dragonsbreath ammo. Before MW2 the Call of Duty series was known for its accuracy and attention to how the guns really work, as well as the weapons for the time periods the games take place in. And GunGunGun has a point, it's just going to be the same chaotic multiplayer as MW2, a bunch of stoners and kids making themselves feel better by corner camping, tubing, and quickscoping. Treyarch only seems to have done things to promote those playing techniques, not discourage them like they should. -Mandaloin
::: Cry some more then? It's pretty obvious that you don't like the gameplay style. There are many, MANY gamers out there that would disagree with your tastes, and those are the ones that Treyarch is aiming to please (along with those on the fence over some of MW2s perks/killstreaks which were changed for the better). So what if it's not all realistic, the key point in a video game is if it's any fun to play or not. Last I checked, I couldn't actually survive crashing a Ferrari at 100MPh at Laguna Seca either, but it is sure as hell fun to play a game that allows me to get back up and try again without it being "game over" for me. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Meh, quit complaining, it's a video game. If you want realism go play ARMA or Operation Flashpoint. It does look better than MW2, that I will say. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I just love how people can criticize a game, when yet, they haven't even played it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 21:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:I just love how people keep saying that. We don't have to play it to criticize what we've already seen of it. -Mandaloin
:: Yeah, you kinda do. If you have not actually sat down and played this game, you're only assuming it's gonna be bad by just looking at it. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Medal of Honor pwns Call of Duty in every way. ''That's'' my opinion of Black Ops. Anyone who doesn't like it can go cry a river. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg
:Nice find, I agree. Wow, they must've dug pretty deep. I don't see how it'd be possible for this to be a modeling mistake, as I would think it's much harder to find one of these than an MPL. The above link doesn't work, here it is again. [http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg04-e.htm] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well whatdaya know, the one I missed. Good find. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

They are Skorpians in 9x18mm without the stocks. Looks awesome to me.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

: We've already seen what the Skorpions look like, these look alot like that OTs-02 Kiparis --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 00:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:I presume the KS-23 is likely to have heavy recoil, small capacity (3 rounds) and a delay between shots. Also can't the KS-23 also function as a Grenade launcher as well firing firing a variety of shells such as Tear Gass, Flash Bang and White Phosphorous? I would marry Treyarch if they finally added Slugs to this baby! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Draco i think your my new friend. JK. i always wondered why they never put chokes or slugs as attachments for guns in video games.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

::They have added slugs to some games. But to name few, Bad Company 2, Fallout: New Vegas and STALKER are one's that come to mind, though I don't think even the majority of game designers (save for a small collection of the minority) that know what a Choke on a shotgun even is. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

English version of Wikipedia erroneously indicates that the KS-23 was created in 1970. This weapon was created in mid-1980's. The 23 mm rifled barrel has been borrowed from anti-aircraft weapons systems. At present it is not used Russian police, because it is too heavy and uncomfortable [[User:Slow Rider|Slow Rider]] 11:12, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a AR-18 but don't we have the full assault rifle list?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: It's not an AR-18, the recievers don't match. It looks more like the 63, although it doesn't appear to have the ventilated barrel housing. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

After actually looking at a 63, this gun looks like it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Stoner63-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stoner 63 in rifle and LMG configuration.]]
[[Image:COD7Stonerpossible.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's a screencap from gameplay footage of the possible Stoner 63. Compared to the stock image I'd say it is.]] . - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Reflex sights==
Just wondering about the reflex sights, were they even developed back during the periods the game is set in? Another thing I was curious about is that the M4 Spectre in the list shows it having a reflex mounted on it. While it is using a side-mount, wouldn't the stock get in the way if you try to fold/unfold it since it folds to the top of the gun?--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
: '''1,''' Yeah, i am almost sure reflex sight existed during cold war. There is even patent on internet, dating it into seventies.
: '''2,''' All SMG´s have apparently stocks removed for some reason. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Not exactly on topic==
Alright, I am having a pretty bad day with dealing all the crap my professors are throwing at me and then my roommate says something that is kinda pissing me off so I am gonna rant a little bit. Last night(this early morning actually, around 1), he decided not to do his homework and decided to watch a show about snipers and the amazing feats they pulled off including one about Hatchcock. It was pretty interesting until he ruined it after watching a sniper take out VietCongs using kentucky windage with his scoped (now busted) m14 after his helo was shot down by saying, "So what, I don't see how that is impressive, I can do that all the time in Modern Warfare 2." Now he wants to go buy Black Ops when it comes out because he wants to "pwn some noobs" and all the feature look really realistic just like in MW2. He goes on to say that he wants to become a Ranger because he thinks it is easy enough since he is smart since he was on a debate team, ran for state assembly, etc. and strong because he can do MMA and finishes that with he can drink a lot beer. I give him credit for having the balls to join the Rangers but at the same time, it feels like he is insulting them. Sorry for writing all this but I was having a shitty day and just had to let is all out and I figured it since he was talking of COD, that I would put it here. Alright, rant over, feeling much better now. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 15:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy, is actual real military service gonna shit on his cereal, lets see just how easy pwning noobs is when your actually getting shot at, oh and apparently theres this thing called recoil in reality, suprising i know. Oh and no respawns either. On an actual related note this game is gonna suck, I do love the return of the 1911 to COD i just can forgive the erronious amounts of just horrendous anacronisms, and the flamethrower undermount is so retarded --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's a fun idea, hand a CoD fanboy an AR-15 with the bolt locked back, hand them a magazine, and tell them to fire it. See how long it takes them to realize that the weapon isn't magically ready to fire just because you slap in a fresh magazine. You get five points for every ten seconds it takes before they realize what the bolt catch is. You get bonus points if they pull the charging handle.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 06:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Oh and pop that elusive saftey on too, just for good measure.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 09:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be impressed if they would give the back stock a flat slap after loading a fresh mag and charged the gun like a real badass.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Even better would be actually getting through the first phase of basic to even hold a weapon.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be even more surprised to find a gamer doing a proper tactical reload, instead of letting a mag drop to the ground and becoming confused as to why it doesn't magically appear back in his pouches.

first of id slap the shit out of your roommate , the second he hit basic hes gonna be crying for mommy shitting him self , and i cant wait for the m1911 to make its return .simmons 8492

==Kinda liking the weapons list==

Well, they are things you never see in other games, although the awp and famas and spas12 can go, and id love the a1 to be full auto. But, a revovler that makes sense, old school submachine guns, a pump action grenade launcher its kind of cool.

I do wish they didn't decided the nearly the same weapons from the other MW series like the AUG, SPAS-12, or the MP5K. They could have picked other pump action shotguns like the Remington 870, or another weapon aside from the MP5K. They should have stuck with the full size MP5. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do have the Ithaca 37. And at least the AUG is a rifle and not a LMG in this one. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I do know most of these guns really shouldn't exist but you can believe I will have a ton of fun with the under-barrel flamethrower with a smily face reflex sight on the G11(they better not mess up the G11).--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

At this moment, I am not bothered about weapons that don't exist at the time, but more on original choices. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda of agree with you there, sorta disappointed though that they made the M16A1 burst fire in Multiplayer. Though it's hard to say exactly when all these guns appear, while yes we were told it was starting in Vietnam but IT could possibly star in other timezones too. From what I've gathered, you play as multiple characters so it's possible you could play as multiple characters in different time periods, 1 in Vietnam, another in Cold War and maybe a few fictional war zones in the early 2000's [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, it seems that original M16 without forward assist is in game. Anyway - As far as i know M16A1 fired in 3-round bursts, no ?
:::The A1 is full-auto. The A2 and A4 variants fire bursts. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 10:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I dont like how they use the correct 20 round mag model but make it hold 30. Hopefully the burst/30 rounds is online only, like in cod 4 where the m16 was full auto SP but burst MP.

== CZ75 ==

JUst curious, does anyone think that the CZ-75 might be the Automatic version of the weapon. Granted Treyarch wasn't going to add Machine Pistols but since it's the last handgun in the list and it costs 750 credits would it be possible? I mean Bad Company 2 had their 93R as their last unlock which was a machine pistol [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:28, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well, it doesnt have to be automatic. CZ-75 is superior to all other handguns from list in real life.( maybe besides Colt Python ) - Its better than Makarov, ASP and even M1911 in all "stats" . Its probably best 9mm handgun.

::Not too sure as to how it would be better than a .45 caliber 1911. I can see it being better than the ASP or Makarov due to their small magazines of 7-8 rounds compared to the 75's 16 (9mm). Of course it does open the slight possibility that an Automatic conversion kit is available as an attachment [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Its not just about calibre or mag capacity. CZ-75 is more accurate, bullet is faster and i think its lighter. Anyway - Its sure that heavier cartrigde is allways better :) But i would take CZ75 to combat instead of M1911.

:Maybe the developers just read a lot of Gunsmith Cats, and took Rally's speech to heart, but the possibility that it may be an automatic makes me sigh. I hope it isn't.-protoAuthor 16:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, The CZ-75 is not more accurate than a 1911
Secondly, there is no "best" 9x19 millimeter pistol, its all personal preference,
Thirdly, the .45 is a better combat round due to its lager grain bullet and more dispersion of energy on contact,
and Lastly, while caliber is not the most important factor, the .45 A.C.P is superior to the 9x19mm because the 9 is a small lightweight bullet, while the .45 is a large heavyweight bullet.
P.S. sign your posts.
~~ PunisherDave
: Well, i tested both CZ75 and 1911. I was doing better with CZ. Anyway - I would take it into combat because of for example mag size. And 9mm bullets are way much more common... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Military 1911s almost universally sucked, with ultra loose fitting parts and 7 pound triggers, and nearly useless sights. 1911s in the civilian world, or the uber built special forces 1911, are nice. But your average GI 1911....not so. Im sure a cz75 would kick its ass in accuracy and reliability if you wanted to use more than ball ammo.
~~k9870
: Ágreed. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Those old 1911's had one thing going for them though, there was a hell of a lot of abuse you could put them through before they malfunctioned. Reliability is a factor. I'm not saying the CZ isn't reliable though, don't get me wrong. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 17:24, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It was once said "the colt 45 will drop a charging bull dead in its tracks, but good luck hitting it.

Haha, while I do know (note how I'm just basing what I say off of research, so I am open to corrections. Hopefully one day I can fire a 1911 and CZ to really know the differences)that the old GI 1911's were often maligned for their lack of accuracy, I've also heard people say it isn't that big of a deal considering that it is a handgun. In a military capacity, the pistol is there when shit gets up close and personal and you need to defend yourself. When the guy is close enough that you can see the whites of his eyes, I'm sure you're not gonna have to be a deadeye to land shots on target. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 18:21, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:My buddy's father was a Marine in Vietnam, and at least according to him, a lot had to do with the fact that their M1911s were just really old and worn. I would think that WWII production of M1911s would've been more enough to supply US forces for decades. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:29, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Ive heard they manuactured no new 1911s after ww2, and that they just swapped parts, keeping frame and slide. They were loose fitting, and rattled in holsters. a 7 pound single action trigger, and the sights are just awful, especially against a dark background, cheap 3 dot sights would be better. problem is when people think "1911" they think of the sweet modern ones. To be fair, military berettas are beat to hell too, and have known countless people to say the sights were misaligned, magazines had weak springs, etc.
The cz-75 though, this is the first time ive seen it in a game, its pretty cool. I cant wait to use it, im sick of the beretta being the staple 9mm.
-k9870

Misaliged sights are from them getting knocked around and is easily fixed, worn mag springs is through use and they are easily replaced.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:33, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It is true that no new 1911's were purchased after World War 2. The same .45's that were on G.I's hips in Europe and The Pacific were being carried by U.S troops during the Gulf War in the 1990's. I've heard that the quality of the 1911's varied from gun to gun. Some were actually were in decent shape while others were just horrid. I don't believe they all suffered from the problems that K9870 is saying. Although I admit the standard sights on those guns are just awful, Most of the time I can't even make out the front post. A lot of soldiers I've read actually preferred a 1911 to the M9 and carried it when possible. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 22:37, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I dunno about the automatic thing... I myself have only heard of the machine pistol variant of the CZ-75 until very recently, plus I don't think it has a place in media history as a well-known variant of the CZ-75 (much less the CZ-75 itself, outside of [[Gunsmith Cats]]), so I don't know how Treyarch could know about it. Most of the guns they got ideas for the game from are the airsoft guns they had in their office, and last I checked no one makes an airsoft automatic CZ-75. So I would bet my money on that this is just the game's Desert Eagle - the pistol that outshines the rest (and it's about time! The CZ-75 is very underused in the media, IMO). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 09:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually I'm thinking that the Python is gonna be the Power Pistol of this game followed by the 1911. The CZ is probably gonna be the 9mm hi cap of the game.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I hope they dont neuter it for "balance" and that it is awesome, who cares if they need to balance with the makarov and asp? When you buy better guns, they should actually be better, not just change one stat for another.

==asp==

was the asp pistol any good or even used much? It seems the grips would be slippery and the sights are weird.
-k9879
:According to a random site I found, it wasn't used much. Originally, only 100 were produced, and if they are still produced, they are produced only on a pistol-by-pistol basis by custom gunsmiths or shops or something along those lines. The grips were smooth because the original designer intended it to be the ultimate concealed carry pistol, and the smooth grips helped this keeping the chance for the hand to snag on the grips while pulling, aiming, and firing to a minimum. In addition, the sights are weird but when aimed through, due to the design of the sight which employed fluorescent panels, would point at the target when properly aligned, making it easier to shoot reflexively. -Chris Hun7er 23:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

It is a S&W Model 39 which was a really good pistol. It looks as though its in the game because of the size of the Makarov. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:34, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
apparantly the grips are lexan plastic, which is clear and you can see through it, but when the gun is reloading the gun still appears to have bullets inside even though there's none there...

== The Over-Under Shotgun ==

The Over-Under Shotgun AKA "Olympia", seems to be based off of a Browning Citori XT shotgun. I don't have a screenshot of the gun ingame (It was on the ground, and in HD, but the page was protected so I couldn't save it). But I am pretty sure that the Browning Citori XT is the real-life inspiration for the Olympia.

==Snubnose more accurate?==

What game designers brilliant idea was this? i could understand faster switch or something, but higher accuracy?

I think they were too stupid to make the snubnose version default and a 6" barrel an attachment. --[[User:Xarex|Xarex]]

A 4 inch python is a great service handgun, they should just have 4inch standard, the 6 inch a slower draw but more accurate, the snubby less accurate but faster draw, and unlocks like a nickle finish, different grips, pimp it out however you please.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would think that a snub makes it more accurate, this is just stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

On the COD wiki it shows the stat page ffor snubnose, down one bar power, up one accuracy.
k9870
:It could be that one of the developers mixed it up by mistake, if its not a mix up..... then why bother making videogames with real guns anymore if Treyarch is just going to make up stuff. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 08:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

::A snub nosed revolver has less power AND accuracy than a full size revolver.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

:::I mean in a video game sense (balance over realism), wouldn't a shorter barrel logically mean less accuracy? Sorry if what i said earlier sounded like i wanted Treyarch to make the game like real life. I just meant that Treyarch would be messing with logic to make a shorter barrel mean higher accuracy. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 12:41, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Black Ops Zombies weapons ==

For those that are wondering, this is the "teaser" trailer for Black Op's Zombie mode www.gknova6.com

So far the weapons I can see and identify are the HK21E, Ithaca M37 Trench Gun, a sniper rifle that looks similar to the design of an Artic Warfare Super Magnum and a tricked out AK variant.

Also it seems we may have Zombies in modern arenas like Office complexes and Labs [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Makarov with target sights. ==

I just noticed that the Makarov has target sights instead of the Military sights. That definatly seems wrong for Military use.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Military sights suck, im sure special forces would replace them.

Maybe but as I recall they didn't have target sights back then, plus they are Dropped by the Russians so they would have the military sights. They aren't that bad by the way, I have personal experiance with them and they are fine.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Saw on COD wiki "upgraded iron sights" as an attachment.

==Strela-3 Missile launcher! Latest Trailer!==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA 1:10 "Vehicle Lock-On Only". Also whats that gun at 2:03, it makes me confus
--[[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]] 17:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

==Who Wants to Ice Castro?==
Apparently you can do it, and there's even an achievement for doing it in one shot!
http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/call-of-duty-black-ops/news/call-of-duty-black-ops-achievementstrophies-reward-you-for-murdering-monkeys-and-fidel-castro/a-20101001104021980032/g-20100430155437473001
[[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 18:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

tell ya what , if you can do that cuba is gonna be pissed . simmons 8492
Oh, oh, I DO!!! :D [[User:Young Gun]]

== Clues from leaked Achievements list ==

Full list here. SPOILERS! [http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2]

:-The player gets to use TOW missiles in the game.
:: MP killstreak list is more than few days old.
:-It's DEFINITELY alternative history.
:: That was clear.
:-The Grim Reaper is in the campaign somewhere.
:: Seen already in one of first trailers.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== Found a PSG1 ==

[http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101001181628/callofduty/images/f/f9/Psg1better.jpg Here], to the right of the G2 --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 19:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

: '''Oh. My. God'''. 2000 Famas with flamethrower and M16 handguard. I beg it would sound crazy month ago. Looking forward MoH much more. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
:Sharp eye, dude. You have my respect. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:13, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63 RAK ==

@ 2:04 in the new trailer here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA] Looks like a PM-63 RAK
[[Image:BO Unidentified.JPG]]--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

:He he, monkey.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 02:31, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Galil ==

Hey guys, found an ingame image of the Galil, head over to the Black Ops page to see it --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Explanation for Impossibly Inaccurate Weapons ==

It is possible that the explanation is that not all of this game is 1968. By looking at www.gknova6.com viral ad site for black ops, reading the trophy/achievemnt list, and by piecing together all the nova-6 gas based missions I believe that one of the playable characters will be killed or severely wounded in the Bay of Pigs Invasion in Cuba(due to the Sacrifice tropy found on the list at http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2). The Gk Company or the Russian goverment then has him revived or recovered to relate what happened with his Ops in the year 1993(www.gknova6.com) or 2010(reveal) at Rebirth Island(Vozrozhdeniya Island) home to the Russian Microbioligical Warfare Unit(source wikipedia). This is not fannon look at the all the raw info of GKNOVA, the mission objectives of sevarel missions, and this GKNOVA6 Web site. Sorry for the long windedness but hopefully you will all understand.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 17:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

So...how does any of this new information explain the inaccurate weapons? The missions with the weapons in question like the AR-15 and the AUG really did took place in a time when they shouldn't exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:20, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Its confirmed this game is alternate reality/timeline so inaccurate weapons is less of a deal.
[[User:K9870|K9870]]

I was more or less talking about way off ones like the WA2000, FAMAS Felin, Artic Warfare, and Spectre M4.Trust me Im not saying thats a good excuse for F-ing up with the CAR-15 hybrid thing and the production "protoype" AUG but that might be the excuse for the G11 and all other post 1970 weapons.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 04:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course there's always the point that this is just a video game that has events based off of real life occurrences too... [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:02, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

* Maybe Mason just has a really bad memory or was hit over the head with a copy of Tacticool Gun Monthly before the interrogation. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 07:06, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Or maybe this is all a dream. Mason was probably heavily unconscious by the C.I.A. after his capture and this probably caused him to be in a world where he can't tell what's real or not. The C.I.A. is probably holding Rebirth Island and still keeping Mason at Rebirth Island in reality.
- [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 03:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== The Model 1887 is back ==
In before complaining. Seen in the newest trailer around the 00:42 second mark.
http://kotaku.com/5661296/a-look-at-black-ops-single-player-gameplay-and-story

Definitely a shout out to Terminator 2 there. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 02:54, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It has been confirmed for single player campaign only, by trearch. Dunno about zombies --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh-ho, my friend, they are here. The best part is that the zombies are still of the Nazi variety. http://www.gknova6.com/agegate.php

:I mean dont know if its on zombies--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Only in one sequence within the campaign, don't think it's in zombies --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:26, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

What did enough people bitch about "how unfair" it is by blaming their lack of skill on "noob guns"?
:Honestly, I can understand why people complained about Akimbo 1887s. They definitely weren't balanced, since you could fire them almost constantly by staggering your shots until you had to reload. They also had almost insane range (For a video game shotgun), and very high power. I was fine with the single 1887, but I was glad that they nerfed the Akimbos. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 17:02, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

And I hope the zombies arent nazis, i want to fight commie zombies......

:Looks more like there may be a possibility of fighting not only Commie Zombies but Vietcong Zombies and regular civi zombies too, some of those screens look like their wearing office uniforms and lab coats besides military armor. In some ways I'm glad the 1887 is in singleplayer but at the same time I was kinda hoping it would also be added in multiplayer minus the silly akimbo models, they just looked wrong in my opinion. Also sign your posts with "~ ~ ~ ~" without quotations and spaces. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Deer Hunter ==
Looks like theres a scene in the new trailer similiar to the roulette scene in The Deer Hunter, I wonder how that will work in the game. (just a cut scene or a playable moment?) --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 03:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

'MOW" haha that shit gets me every time . simmons 8492
:Nips? Wow, you're doubly ignorant. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

*Actually, there is no proof the Vietcong actually did anything like that, and it is widely agreed among film critics that the Russian Roulette scenes are actually allegories for the American involvement in Vietnam. We also have a few Asian members on this site, so you should keep your racism to yourself. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

:Well I'm not Vietnamese, so that won't offend me. Besides, sticks and stones. I'm more American than I am Asian [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Dont want to look bad to future members, i know some is just joking but some people take everything seriously.

know what , your right . my bad guys . ill take it down. simmons8492

== Walther MPL confirmed ==

Found a video on G4 containing confirmation that the MPL SMG is in-game. For reference it's the gun painted all green http://g4tv.com/videos/49177/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops---Jungle-Multiplayer-Map-Exclusive/ [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 16:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== 'Grip attachment' on Sub Machine Guns ==

I've heard that the grip attachment on SMGs in fact deploys the stock. That would explain why they all seem to be removed/folded ont the SMGs.

:This is most proven on the Skorpion, attaching a grip actually attaches the wire folding stock [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:24, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

==Is it just me...==

or is using the same flip up sights on every damn gun just friggin lazy?

[[User:k9870|k9870]]

It's an attachment called 'improved iron sights'. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:32, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

No, there standard in game sights. The improved adds outiline and dots to pistols, the flip up sights on guns is laz and trying to look tacticool. Even the m60 has them

And because the standard factory iron-sights for the M60 and the FAMAS, well, SUCK. I really was not a fan of the M60's irons in COD4 and the Battlefield Bad Company games. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:19, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
: Agreed. Kinda bugged by the repetitive sights on some guns myself, but I'm not gonna let it get me down. Most of the guns have their own, correct sights. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, thats Treyarch development style. Put everything they want in any time etape. This game is already dead to me - actually, MoH with its 5 hour campaign is much better than MW2 and Black Ops ('' MW2 with different textures and anachronistic guns'' )
:: Wow dude, you must be from the future seeing as how you are able to form this opinion with a game that hasn't even been released yet. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Meh, I usually play games because they are fun. MOH was pretty realisitc, (compared to Call of Duty anyway...) but it definetly wasn't fun (online). I'll just revel in the ridiculousness of it all... Akimbo HS-10 FTW
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:16, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I just finally see these old obscure guns in games and they put lameass sights on, BTW medal of honors single player was cool (ending was abrupt and anticlimactic though) but online is glitchy and feels unpolished. I want to play COD.

Not really sure about the LAME part, but I'd rather have USABLE sights even if they aren't the originals and seem LAME in other people's eyes. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:46, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Is it so hard to ask for variety, im sure the stock sights are usable for a game, i may just use an AK online since it doesnt have flip ups.

Is it so much to ask them to give us variety in the same type of gun, like stock and stockless MP5 or underfolder AK. performances, it makes no difference, but I like variety in what you pick to shoot with. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

== *SPOILER* Zombie Mode Characters. ==

Hey, just saw the intro video for zombie mode. It seems you play as John F Kennedy, Richard Nixon, Some CIA Bloke and Fidel Castro... Heres the link:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbhcHCP24g]r
::That fourth guy would appear to be Robert McNamara, JFK and LBJ's Sec of Defense. Why not just LBJ? Or Bobby Kennedy? They couldn't find two voice actors to do bad Bahston/Kennedy accents? ("Er-eh, toss me another maaahg!") --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Awsome.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 23:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

: These guys are only on bonus map that you get after finishing campaign. There are some random US sosldiers fighting Nazi Zombies in normal zombie mode. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Damn, i love cigars but hate commies. [[user:k9870|k987]]

Zombies better be commies, killing nazis got old i want to shoot commie zobies.

:Is it just me, or would LBJ be better replaced by LHO? (Lee Harvey Oswald.)
::Only if he could only carry three bullets at one time. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:47, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

=="escape the past"==

Its a achievemnet listed, does this imply time travel?
-k9870

Or that something one of the characters did is going to come back to bite them in the arse. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

If it's time travel I'm tearing someone at Treyarch a new one--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:Don't get so defensive over a title. It could be a really cool section, forcing the player to battle his way out of his hometown. Or, maybe time travel. >.> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 23:31, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Nah I meant it all in good humour XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I highly doubt that it's actual time travel. From what we've seen and has been speculated, the majority of the campaign will take place as memories of Black Ops missions that the main characters participated in. No time travel, just photographic memories. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

==New Videos confirm various unknowns==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrNoLz4gC60&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=dvWBYFCAcck]

Among a few things, this video confirms that the G11 is burst fire only, and at the exceptional rate we expect. The poster has posted about many other of the weapons, also confirming that Full Auto is a pistol attachment for the CV-75. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:19, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Golden Guns are Fugly ==

I mean take a look at this!

[[Image:Golden_PSG1.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden PSG1]]

[[Image:Golden_WA2000.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden WA2000]]

[[Image:Golden_Stakeout.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden Ithaca Stakeout]]

[[Image:Golden_HS-10.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden HS-10]]

Also, it would appear the the Ithaca M37 IS the Stakeout version and not the Trench Gun version we initially believed [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:39, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:Ugh...my eyes bleed just looking at those. D: [[User:DZ1994|DZ1994]] 22:57 27 August 2011 (UTC)

:I thought golden guns were fugly before. >> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:That doesn't even look like real gold, it looks spray painted on! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The gold guns look terribad, probably will avoid using gold camo altogether :C --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 00:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Why spend money on gun colours, when you can just buy gun attachements? :D [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:^ This. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Eh, still gonna make my Duke of New York class with a gold Mac-10 and a nickel (I swear I saw a nickel or 'silver' camo) Python. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:23, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Not sure it was confirmed, I think there was rumors flying around but nothing concrete. Besides, I don't think camo patterns can be applied to secondaries, which is lame. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Have you heard that even ACOG´s can be added on pistols ? This game is gonna suck.
:::Because the fact that you can put a scope on a high powered revolver (Something that's doable and often useful in real life) means that the game automatically sucks. Thank you for your insight. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Only python can take an acog. And as to golden guns you only use them if you want to and it looks like you can do it for individual guns instead of the whole damn class its in.

The Python's recoil with the ACOG looks pretty balanced, I'm not too bothered about it. Besides, is pretty cool that Treyarch are doing something a bit different. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:I just added pictures of all the golden guns, they are pretty gross. I would never waste any fake money to buy them.

::That's fine, the game is already an abomination to historical accuracy, might as well include all of its other abominations. "Golden Guns are Fugly". Yes. Yes they are. Even COD4's gold-plated guns looked better, it really does look like they just spray-painted gold paint on them. By the way, I detest gold-plating, in real life and in games, though for some reason the gold-plated AK-47 in COD4 is the only gold gun that looks cool to me, I don't know why, just something about it I guess. But chrome and nickel to me are the snazzy. ;) P.S. I don't run around with the gold-plated AK-47 in COD4 (or any of the camo'ed guns for that matter), I just pick it up and use it occasionally. ;) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:38, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

==just watched zomie gameplay==

pentagon level, the zombies were amix of original nazi zombies and pentagon workers turned to zombies (were wearing shirt/tie)

Why cant they have communist zombies, seriously?

[[user:k9870|k9870]

:I guess they don't want to offend anyone who might be communist. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I still hope there's some Nazi ones left. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:28, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Nazis made sense in ww2, but thats been done, we want something new, commie zombies.

From what I've seen, the WaW characters are returning to fight straight Nazi zombies, JFK and friends fight Pentagon zombies in the Pentagon, and there's another with Russian zombies in Winter camo (that's shown on that GKNOVA6 website right now). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:30, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The JFK/Nixon/Castro/McNamara level is a bonus level at the end of the game, not the actual zombies mode. The real zombies mode features some new guys in some labs (as seen on GKNOVA6) most probably russian special forces. It will include communist zombies. and the characters from W@w are in it if you buy hardened --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 11:39, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I hope the pentagon level is 4 player co op so i can play with friends

==Interview with the military advisor==
Here is the link to the interview with the Call of Duty: Black Ops military advisor if anyone is interested in reading it. [http://www.3news.co.nz/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-military-advisor-interview/tabid/418/articleID/185313/Default.aspx] --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 16:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, that Advisor doesnt know anything about weapons. Or any kind of warfare. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Of course your in a position to judge him right...--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, god forbid Treyarch try and make a fun game, instead of a military simulator. Fun? What's that?! [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 10:52, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: But game can be fun even with realistic weapons or good AI of enemies.
Unfortunately, Treyarch went in MW2 way and instead of making enemy AI better, they spawned twice as much of them.
:::No one says COD was ever a military simulator, but a M16/M203 turning up during the Bay of Pigs invasion would seem to be a "bit" out of place. Now that we know the singleplayer is set between 1961 and 1968, any arguments about the game taking place in some era that justifies the anachronisms has become irrelevant.

==Just putting this out there==
Does anyone else believe that now that the game's actually out and we can get higher quality screenshots, that the old low quality caps be removed? Or maybe the entire page be redone so it looks a little more consistent because you have a low quality shot from an online video then a high quality ingame cap from the game. I'm just saying it probably would look better. --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 01:33, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the low-quality screencaps should be removed ASAP. I'll try to post some as I go through the single-player campaign, but eventually, they too may need to be replaced. I'm running it on 960x600 with no AA for playability. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:This page also need screencaps from the Zombies mode. I was unable to get the Thundergun (a two-shot sound wave gun that resembles a modern rocket launcher) and the Ray gun due to the constant waves of zombies that may sneak up on you and kill you easily, large number of barriers (too many to defend), and the poor weapons you receive in the early rounds. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I just finished single-player, and I've got tons of caps available. I'll try to upload that are relevant and in need later --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 04:18, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Impressions So Far? ==

What do you guys thinks of the game so far? My only dissapointment is that they have decided to remove the front sight when you use optics. Other than that, the guns look fantastic.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:I think it's alright, I haven't played campaign yet since the game is my roommate's so we've only been playing on Live. I think the only thing I'm not really liking so far is that they took away the slip-screen Special Ops. As for the guns, pretty much the same as yours along with the whole flame thrower thing, I just think it is rather ridiculous.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 06:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Boring. SP is short, unoriginal ('' This wont matter as MoH had short SP too. But it was atleast fun. Atmospheric and realistic fun. While its boring, unatmospheric and completely unoriginal in BO'' ) . There isnt anything like AI. Too many boring scripts. To the guns : They are anachronistic and unrealistic. It feels strange encountering NVA with Spas-12. MP is same like in MW2 ('' Read - Crappy'' ) with tons of spammed killstreasks etc.
:This game deserves '''5/10''', nothing more. Oh, and do not think i have something against Treyarch. I hated MW2 too. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I like it. SP was a bit of a mind fuck at times, and the AI could have been better, but 98% of the time I was having fun. MP is mostly good, better than MW2, though over the last 12 hours I started seeing some tubers. Yes it's anachronistic and ridiculous, but if I wanted an exact simulation of war I'd join the CF. Aside from some maps, I like it far more (In every way) than MW2. Galil w/ red dot & suppressor + 1911 w/ extended mags = awesomeness. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 15:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The story is actually pretty decent, better than the sponataneous betrayals of MW2. The voice acting is also, suprisingly, very well done. I really don't play multiplayer alot, but it's more balanced than MW2. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 15:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The constant flashes on the screen is annoying as hell. Almost gave me a seizure. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The campaign was a bit hard to follow at first, but it comes together nicely in the end. Yes, the weapons are ludicrous (not even ridiculous, beyond ridiculous,) but oh well, I can live with it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Pretty much, I'll give this game a 9.2/10. The multiplayer and content is better and improved from Modern Warfare 2, but the campaign is a bit too short (only 15 missions :() and there's some minor complicated glitches in frame rate. Overall, the game is much better than Modern Warfare 2 and a good recommendation. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:24, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

To be honest guys I just ignore the ancronistic weaponry as it really doesnt matter in the long run. Lets face it, saying a game will suck because theres some AUGs in the 'nam era is just plain ludacris. If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops. Now that thats out of my system I can say with all honesty that this game is very addicting and its finnally a challenge to kill people(5-6 shots for a kill rather than 3-4 shots a kill in MW2). This game is a way more fun experince than MW2 and finally shows the potential of Teyarch development team. ---P226 21:24, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

: I agree, you people take the weapons accuracy way too seriously. What the hell did you expect from a mainstream video game? The only games that are ever 100% accurate with the guns, lets face, are awful. At least this games fun. Hate it for any other reason, that's fine I'll respect that. Hate it for innaccuracies when you really should be used to by know, and that's just ridiculous. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:: You and P226 have both just contradicted yourselves. On the one hand you state it's ridiculous to say a game sucks because of the guns, but then go on to say games that have accurate depictions of guns suck. If the game is fun, it's going to be fun whether the guns are accurate or not. I can't believe that if Black Ops had the correct weapons in it that it suddenly wouldn't be fun anymore. Perhaps you can give an explanation of how this would be so?
::''If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops.''
::I have to totally disagree with this statement. If Treyarch had used firearms of the period, we would have ended up with weapons that, to my knowledge, have never before been used in a video game. I have mentioned in other posts how the Remington 7188, an automatic shotgun that was really used by the NAVY seals in Vietnam could have been used in Black Ops. Instead we get the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time, and has been used in a million other video games. Which is the "bland, unoriginal" gun here? I'm gonna have to say the SPAS-12. Of course, if Treyarch had used the period correct shotgun the game would all of a sudden not be fun anymore and would suck, right?
::''The only games that are ever 100% accurate with the guns, lets face, are awful.'' I find this statement hard to believe. Would you care to back this up with some examples?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 04:39, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I never said having a game with correct guns of that period is going to be bad, I was trying to make a point that if Black Ops were to have just your standard m16's,Ak47's and colt Commando's, it would be just some normal Vietnam game. Also, all the guns above have been done to death in every video game none to man (though they are nice to have to fill in weapon slots), in my opinion I find the Galil as sweet( and different) Assualt Rifle, Ancronistic or not. If your the kind of guy who can't get over the fact that your using guns lke the AK'''74'''u and the CZ'''75''' in 1968, then this isn't the game for you. ---P226 18:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

:I don't know if you guys remember "Men of Valor," but it was a Vietnam FPS that came out a few years ago. It was developed by the same studio that did MoH: AA, so it felt a lot like MoH: Vietnam.) All the weapons were historically accurate, nothing was out of place, but if you've never heard of it, I'm not surprised. The game isn't bad, but it's not great, and it's flawed. The weapons were correct, but there weren't that many, and many of the weapons were just variations on the same weapon. (M16 and CAR-15, M14 and M21, and AK-47 and Type 56, and you couldn't share ammo for some reason.) Thus, you can make a game like BO that has ludicrously anachronistic weapons and have the biggest media launch of all time, or a game like Men of Valor that has historically accurate (and yes, boring) weapons and have it be unknown to the general gaming public. (You should try out Men of Valor though. If you have an original Xbox, you can get it new for a penny. It's not backwards compatible though.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:36, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

: I just might have to pick that up. And when I said the games with 100% accurate weapons suck, I didn't mean they sucked because of the guns, I meant that every game I could think of that was ultra-realistic just simply wasn't fun. No contradiction. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:54, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:You all seem to say the guns don't matter, but then show your disdain for having the correct weapons in the game, as if this would somehow make it boring. ''I never said having a game with correct guns of that period is going to be bad, I was trying to make a point that if Black Ops were to have just your standard m16's,Ak47's and colt Commando's, it would be just some normal Vietnam game.'' So if Black Ops had the exact same story, but the correct guns it would just be a normal Vietnam game? Why? The story makes the game, not the guns. And there's plenty of weapons that would be correct to the period that haven't been "done to death" (HK-33 w/ 40 rd mag, used by Navy SEALS, Carl Gustav m/45, Remington 7188, the list goes on) What exactly qualifies as bland,unoriginal guns, that if they were included would make the game boring? I just get the impression from you that the only interesting guns in this game are the ones that dont' belong there. My point is that they could have had period correct weapons and it wouldn't have affected the fun factor of the game at all--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 04:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::I am more bothered by the guns that didn't make the cut. Why not an M76, a Carl Gustav, a Madsen M50, or an M3 Grease Gun? Sure, they could've, but they didn't, probably on purpose. That brings leads me to what can be an interesting exercise: what would've been better weapons on each level? For the first level (the Cuban one) I would've put in an M2 Carbine and a PPK instead of the M16 and ASP. Other levels? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:20, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

:::You pose an interesting question, but there are actually a lot of different choices so it's one not easily answered. I agree with you on the M-2 carbine, it would be very appropriate for the Cuban level. I feel another good choice would have been one of the Czech SA series of submachine guns. If you've ever seen photos from the Bay of Pigs Invasion, you would have noticed that SA 25 quite a common weapon in the hands of Castro's forces. The FAL is actually historically correct for that level, but it's more likely that was an accident than by design.
:::I haven't played the game yet, so I'm not familiar with all the levels, but I have some general ideas of what they should have included. For pistols a Browning Hi-Power, and if Treyarch absolutely had to have a machine pistol, they could have used the Stechkin. For SMG's, the Carl Gustav M/45 standard model or suppressed version, and if not that then the Madsen M50. The SA 23,24,25,or 26, a Beretta model 12 w/ 40 round mag instead of the Spectre, maybe the MAT-49 for the NVA/Vietcong, if not the standard version then the suppressed model that was supposedly employed by NVA counter-SOG teams. If the MP-5 is going to be included then the standard MP5A3 should have been used instead of that ugly ass prototype MP5K.
:::Of course replace the damn SPAS-12 with the Remington 7188. HK33 instead of the AUG. The correct model CAR-15 instead of the flat top Commando. How about the AMD-65 instead of an AKS-74U? I think they should have axed the RPK altogether and perhaps used 2 different Russian machine guns, maybe an older model like the RP-46, and then the PK for the Spetsnaz.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:53, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

::: RPK instead of "''RPK''" in first level. Also AK-47 instead of "''AK-47''" in second one. Vladimirov KPV instead of Minigun would be awesome. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, this game doesnt suck just because of guns. It sucks because its boring, it doesnt have AI and MP is shitty just like in MW2. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

How is the MP shitty, its definitly not, It developed to be much more balanced than MW2 in every way. Although it isnt perfect,(commando lunges...)it certainly makes modern warfare 2 look like crap as a SUBMACHINE GUN....*cough*UMP45*cough* had more power and range than most assualt rifles. As for the people listing the guns that should have been in the game, all I can say is 'sure I wish they added more time appropriate guns like the Carl Gusav and the Greese Gun, but its too late now and its going to be somthing we have to live as there is no point complaining about it on the internet(not trying to say that in harsh or disrespectful way). I feel if we can all sit down , forget all those anchronisms, and just enjoy this game for what it is, a FICTIONAL cold war/ Vietnam Game. Also on a side note, I think if Treyarh were to have focused this game on Vietnam mainly, then we would have all the correct weaponry, but since there going for a 'top secret CIA' type game,they add all these ludacris guns to accomidate the feel and presence of the cold war.---P226 20:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of inaccuracies, I'm suprised nobody's mentioned Sam Worthingtons oh-so-authentic American accent. :P --[[User:Kangabox|Kangabox]] 21 February 2011

== Pistol grips ==

Anyone noticed that there isnt gun without pistol grip ? Jeez. They put one even on Mosin. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Mosin and ppsh dont have them, characters just hold them like they do.

: Maybe in first person. But mosin has actually pistol grip when its in hands of NPC´s.

No, they just hold their hand as if they were, when its on their backs or they die and drop it doesnt, its probably due to all other characters carrying pistol grips and they dont want too redo characte rmodeling.

I was taking a closer look at when they hold it (Mosin) and guess what, the world models are normal, but when they hold them they DO have pistol grips.... but i do agree, they probably didn't want to make new models. They probably put grips on them while their holding the weapon just so they didn't look even more awkward (floating hands). --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 22:13, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Not all the weapons have pistol grips. If you watch them carefully there are no pistol grips EXCEPT on Steiner's Mosin that is given to him my a Soviet soldier. It is actually modeled as having a pistol grip that is quite visable. Otherwise they do not have pistol grips on anything, it just looks like it. --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 16:00, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Steiners Mosin does not have a pistol grip, its a modeling error because its really a P38 in his hands along with the Rifle--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:11, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

== Gold weapon images ==

Do we really need all those pictures of the gold camo? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah. It shows how silly and disguisting tis game is.
Disgusting? It's not THAT bad, man. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:42, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Sign your posts. But, I agree that the gold weapon pictures are rather unnecssary. If someone has the PC version of the game, taking pictures of the standard weapons in multiplayer would be greatly appreciated.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 20:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Semi Auto FAL ==

Since it is semi auto only, shouldn't it be renamed to the SLR? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:56, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

It has a metric reciever and handguards but a SLR-style flash hider... Its a Franken-gun but nowhere near as bad as MW2's FN-FAL was...--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:59, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Snub-nose ==
Could the effect of this actually reduce the visual recoil of the Python, allowing you to fire off your next shot faster, and thus make it "more accurate"? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:56, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

But wouldn't it instead exacerbate recoil, without the weight of the barrel to mitigate it? If anything, a snub-nose would make the recoil more pronounced, and thus less accurate for quick follow-up shots.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 23:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Huh.....looks like I really suck at gun physics when it comes to recovery time and barrel lengths >_> --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:32, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Though it may be incorrect for real life, I'd say Hashiriya's idea is most probably how it works in game. Since all weapons in COD are perfectly accurate when aiming, the accuracy stat is there to show how easy it is for the player to accuratly shoot the weapon, not the actual weapon's accuracy as we would think of it. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

== Tunnel Rat Revolver ==
When in the tunnels, the report of the Python is fairly muted. Is the implication therefore that is it loaded with "closed circuit" shotgun ammunition as used by the experimental [http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg213-e.htm Quiet Special Purpose Revolver] as tested by Tunnel Rats in Vietnam?

When ever its fired inside a building its strangely quieter yet louder when you step outside.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's your eardrums preemptively ('prolly didn't spell that right) exploding? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:18, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, wasn't that ammunition meant for a .44 magnum? Also its just the way it sounds when its indoors.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:46, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Stop Complaining==

Please just stop. Who cares if the guns aren't accurate? Just sit back and enjoy the Game! If you don't like the game, don't play it! [[User:SAMBAMA|SAMBAMA]]

: 1, I dont play game, because its boring and its just ripoff of MW2. Which was crap too.
: 2, This is firearms site. Not some gaming one. So it doesnt make sense to stop complaining.
: 3, I wont be complaining if those guns would be 3 or 4 years from future. But ''30-40'' ?
--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:38, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Your late to the party, we for the most part don't care anymore.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

^ Hahahahaha! [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 19:08, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

==Crossbow==
I was playing zombies the other day and got the crossbow out of the box. I do't know if anyone else has seen this but, at least I think, it bears a major resemblance to the PSE Tac 15 crossbow. Again this is just me but if that's true I'm pretty sure that would make it the most anachronistic weapon in the game seeing as it was made maybe 2 or 3 years ago? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 16:05, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

The PSE TAC 15 uses either an AR15 lower, or is included with basically a reciever shaped the same. Looking at it, it does not appear to have an AR15 type lower reciever on it, judging from the lack of the empty magazine well in front of the trigger. Maybe the upper does a little, I would agree, but in it's entirety in my opinion I don't think it does.--[[User:Fnlover|Fnlover]] 20:44, 05 January 2010 (UTC)

==1911 in Zombies==
The 1911 in zombies is just the regular nickeled finish like in multiplayer it looks black because of the low light in the starting room. If you go outside by the 'double tap' vending machine you can see it in daylight.

In FIVE where the lighting is fine, its still a Blued finish.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:08, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Really? It looks just like the Multiplayer's nickle plated M1911, I checked just a few minutes ago. Not an expert on this, but if it was a blued finish then wouldn't that make it a lot less shiny? For all the poorly lit rooms in Nazi Zombies, it seems to reflect like a spotlight at times.

In Kino, its the Nickle plated one but in FIVE it looks blued or actually poorly done lighting. Blued is shiny by the way, I have actual guns to prove that.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:52, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

It was Five that I checked, it looks nickle plated to me, so iunno. And thanks for clearing the shine thing up, I thought blueing made the metal duller and not very reflective, I must have mixed that up with something else.

You could be thinking of Parkerizing, which results in a dull finish. --[[User:Graybass 20x6|Graybass 20x6]] 02:59, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Ohyah, parkerizing. I knew it was something with -izing in it, thanks.

In FIVE it is a deeply blued, almost black M1911. In Kino Der Toten, it is nickel plated.

== Did alittle overhauling ==

Removed the misimformation (Shiny black finish is called a Blued finish) and another things.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

==Front Cover 1911==

Is it just me or is the 1911 in the soldier's hand on the title picture (the right hand when you're looking at it) missing its hammer? I've been looking as closely as I can, but I just can't seem to find it. An error on the artists part perhaps? Strange though, the pistol marked "Sally" has its proper hammer.--[[User:august.allocco|august.allocco]] 17:32, 30 December 2010

Looks like a combination of the light and the angle making it hard to spot. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:30, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

== Silencer or Suppressor ==

I was looking at some of the images on this page and noticed that some said they were "silenced" or "with silencer", yet others used suppressor. I always thought suppressor was correct, and silencer only described the effect (although Call of Duty games are notorious for spreading this word around). I have not played black ops, so I was wondering if we would call the attachments silencers or suppresors? --Fnlover 05:42, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
:From what I've heard, both are technically correct, and when the original device was created by Maxim, he patented it as a 'silencer'. Yes, it technically doesn't make the gun silent, but that's it's official name. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:36, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
::They both are correct, even the BATF calls them silencers on the paperwork.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 05:23, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
:::But "suppressor" is the preferred term on this site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:09, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Possible Identity of Over/Under Shotgun ==

Hey everyone, long-time fan of the site, first-time contributor here. I believe I have come across the true identity of the over/under shotgun. I've tried to do as much homework as I could before submitting.

The shotgun appears to be a Beretta: the S-686. Here is the picture for your perusal: [http://armpou.com/images/BERETTA%20686%20SILVER%20PIGEON%20S.jpg Beretta S-686]. Note the identical engraving and design of the barrel pivot assembly.

I don't believe that it could be a Rottweil Olympia. The only picture I could come up with (it's pretty elusive) looked nothing like the in-game model: [http://www.guncity.co.nz/images/162403.jpg Rottweil Olympia]. It's rather plain in comparison, with a much different pivot assembly design and geometry.

What do you guys think? --[[User:Graybass_20x6|Graybass_20x6]] 1:45, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

== You know... ==

The more and more I read the discussion page, the more and more I realize you guys should develop a game. Maybe not go that far, maybe just have the developers of a game contact you guys for some info, rather than watch Predators, or Commando, or some other action movie and call it good.

:Together we would create the most weapons realistic game ever! But we don't have the funds or the people to program at least that I know of.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:43, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

::Well, since CoD4:MW, CoD series is known by its many small detail mistakes the developers did to vehicles, factions, weapons, character's clothing, etc.
::This mistakes cannot stop you from playing, but if it's really bothers you, you can use the mod tool to create a mod that accurate every aspect of the game/s, of course if you have the desire for it... I would do that to many games I could, if I had the desire too. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Sounds like the Project Reality Mod for Battlefield 2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:19, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually, my uncle does that stuff for IW maybe I should give him a few notes...

:More than a few I would say, ask him to check this site and ask for opinions. We would be happy to help!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:34, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I've been on board for a couple of game projects involving other people over the net, mainly as a story writer and overall ideas man. The main problem with developing games through the internet is the lack of interest over time. At the beginning of the projects I've seen, it seems there is never a lack of volunteers and collaboration. However, the projects I've undertaken (over the internet) have always seemed to lose steam after a whirlwind of work and progress, and within a month or two it's left to a bare-bones cast of a few people who eventually drop it due to lack of manpower. I'd absolutely love to have another project to do (I've had ideas for an FPS milling about in my head for ages), but I also fear that it will be all for naught within a few weeks. --[[User:Graybass 20x6|Graybass 20x6]] 02:59, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

:I completely agree. I myself, writing an idea for a game which in the meantime it's called "Lead Storm" - an FPS game based on other existing games/series like CoD, MoH, Crysis, BF, Tom Clancy's, etc. This game is also involves the accuracy of small details, from weapons to equipment to cloths and many other things. I really want this game to be exists, but it's hard to do it alone. I need people who can program, animate and generally design stuff using various programs. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 14:44, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm so down for that, but it does seem like something that people would lose their dedication to pretty quickly.
::::what IW/tryarch need are proper researcher's ones that actually research, not ones that get a retired marine from the 60's to do all thier work (look at that supposed retired marine, he knew nearly nothing about firearms) or watch black hawk down and just copy everything [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:18, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::People that were in the Military don't usually know much about guns other than the ones they trained on and were issued and thats it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:31, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::i don't see why other people dont realise that. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 09:44, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
::That is the problem with the developers: They don't really care if the in-game weapons will have bullet ejection ports or something like that, they don't really care about the small details of the game (depends on what details). Many people also say the same thing, because the main task is too create a game that satisfy the buyers, without looking at the small details. I think that every war game supposed to be much realistic as it can get. I'm not talking about realism as Operation Flashpoint, or ARMA, or Tom Clancy's games where the gameplay and so could be a little bit frustrating. You can keep the normal gameplay of Call of Duty, but just work a little bit on the details so you will see no differences between the game's realism to ours. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 13:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Bigger Images ==

Does anyone have issues with the images being 600px? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]

== Alternate History ==
I apologize for adding yet another hypothesis to this game's story line but...this may be an alternate time line sort of thing. I replayed the game and, at the end SPOILER ALERT when Mason surfaces amid the US flotilla after sinking the control ship he sees a battleship with the hull number 68. I got bored and looked up the hull designation to see which ship it belonged to when I saw that it belonged to the USS Ohio, part of the canceled Montana class battleship class. Just my two cents! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 19:13, 26 March 2011 (CDT)

:So this game takes place in a universe where the Montana class wasn't cancelled? Oh. My. God. It all makes total sense now. When the Montanas were cancelled, it caused a chain reaction that drastically slowed the development of small arms down so that things like Picatinny rails were actually developed long after they were originally supposed to be! :O Damn you, DoD, why?! We could have had laser guns, hover cars, and a colony on Mars by now!! >:(

:All joking aside now, I recall MPM saying something about movies frequently using patches of deactivated military units on costumes, so this use of a cancelled hull number can probably be similarly dismissed. Then again, maybe Treyarch just ''guessed'' and put a random number on the ship that just happened to belong to the Ohio (I doubt the average CoD player even knows what a hull number is). Stranger things have happened, after all. Was there any indication that this was ''actually'' the USS Ohio, such as a name or other tell-tale sign? If Black Ops was an alternate history scenario, I think Treyarch would have made it a little more obvious with a sign other than something as small as a hull number. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:47, 17 April 2011 (CDT)

== Anachronistic Weapons ==

God, it cracks me up that most of the weapons in this game are anachronistic. I mean I read the page and I see anachronistic, anachronistic, anachronistic, and... anachronistic. XD By the way, great job on the page guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:10, 27 April 2011 (CDT)

Well, I don't think nobody expect that the in-game weapons will be like that. CoD:BO is a controversial game, in my opinion, because since the first stages of the developing, Treyarch said that the game will take place during the first stages of the Cold War, which the game is set from 1963 but jumps to 1967 and 1968 (if I'm not mistaken). They all said that because the game is based around the Cold War, it will include many weapons, and prototypes that were under production in that time. Many people with military knowledge thinks that CoD:BO is a complete bullshit because of what its showing to us. I think that the guys in Treyarch didn't really care about what weapons will be in the game or how they will act, they just wanted to make a different Call of Duty installment, with or without accuracy in the details. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 08:48, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
:That's, umm, not very bright. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:56, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
::Not very bright, you say? Well, I didn't made the game, and if I would, I'd do it more realistically and not like in CoD where weapons #1 is anachronistic, weapons #2 don't have ejection port, weapon #3 has 20 rounds instead of 30 and so on and so on. I'm telling you here something that many people know about the series of CoD, I wasn't made that up.
:::I was talking about IW & Treyarch. >_> - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 06:55, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
::::Sorry then, I don't understand you. What do you mean by "not very bright"?
:::::This -> "I think that the guys in Treyarch didn't really care about what weapons will be in the game or how they will act, they just wanted to make a different Call of Duty installment, with or without accuracy in the details." - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:58, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

Hopefully they get it right with Modern Warfare 3, though i won't be holding my breath, there are also rumors that after that there's going to be one with Ghost as the main character, that hopefully will be decent.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 18:32, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

:I still want to see an FPS where you have a tank level that's actually in first person. As in you can see the gunner and loader working when you're not looking through the periscope / CIS rather than being a magical man who can man 4+ positions at once with the power of his mind. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:31, 30 April 2011 (CDT)

::We, as the gamers, can suggest many and many ideas for a fun, beautiful, realistic and better FPS war game. The question is: Does the developers are interested in community's suggestions, or they want to make their own? From what I saw until now, they don't give a s*** about us.

The game was just a money maker so that they could rack up enough money so they could make Modern Warfare 3.--[[user:Gunner5|Gunner5]] 12:15, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

==Weapons in Hardened/Prestige Original Zombie Maps==
Should we also cover the WWII weapons only sen in the original zombie maps made available for only the Hardened and Prestige Editions? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 23:48, 12 May 2011 (CDT)

== Call of Duty + Left 4 Dead? ==

I noticed that on the mission, "''The Defector''" (I believe it is this mission) in Hue City , that Mason yells, "Safehouse below!" and Woods will yell "Molotov!" I took this as a possible Left 4 Dead (2) reference. Anyone else catch it?
I also noticed that Left 4 Dead 2 has the SPAS 12 as well as this mission.

I don't have the ame (I really want to get it though), but to me it sounds more like a coincidence. Probably the last thing Treyarch was thinking of was Left 4 Dead, but it could possibly be a reference, but I think you're thinking way too much about it. Also for the guy who mentioned the SPAS-12. That is a coincidence, as a bazillion games have the SPAS 12. I blame Jurassic Park, but come on the SPAS 12 looks awesome looking. But yeah, nothing more than coincidence[[User:1morey]] June 26, 2011 8:21 AM.

:Yeah, why would they make Left4Dead references in a game with a multiplayer mode where you defend an area from waves of zombies? That's crazy talk! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:47, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

== RPK sight ==

I think I found it.

The Tech Sights AK sighting system, essentially an AR-15 sight attached to an AK.

Here's a picture:

http://www.tech-sights.com/AK%2018.jpg

--[[User:Mammok|Mammok]] 08:08, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons ==

A friend of mine and I were chatting about video games and weapons and we had a big discussion out of it. He claims that the most probable cause of the ANachronisims in this game along with "errors" in other video games is that they are custom made. I really don't see how that could hold water as like someone said before "then why do the "prototypes" look exactly like the final product".

He also said that it explains certain other things like "frankenguns" and "weapon hybrids". For example, he was talking about MW2's FN FAl. He said what if it was a custom made SA58 OSW Carbine that had a FN FAL stock on it. And he said the FN F2000 with the M203, what if it is a custom made gun that could support the M203 Grenade Launcher. I of course couldn't make a reply, so I wanted to see what you guys think. I am on the fence about this. I mean CoJ's Le' Mat revolver fires a rifle round instead of a shotgun round so I guess that is plausible for that firearm to be "custom-made". I just anted to see what you guys thought. - [[User:1morey]] August 4, 2011 12:14 AM (EST)

:There's a deference between a "custom gun" and the game developers A( not really knowing anything about weapons and not doing enough research, or B( not giving a crap about weapon realism at all. Most game developers are usually one or the other, Infinity Ward and TreyArch on the other hand seem to do both. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:56, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

:The other obvious issue is that the weapons are not ''presented'' as custom guns, they're supposed to simply be issue weapons and are all shown as if they're manufactured in quantity. What your friend is doing is referred to in some quarters as "plot spackle;" trying to make things up to fill in the gaps in the game's logic. The fact that you can invent excuses doesn't really excuse the gaps in logic being there and totally unexplained in the first place. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:57, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:Just want to point out, that in MW2 there is nothing about the FN FAL that comes from an SA58 OSW. Don't know why the article says that it is a hybrid, but the only thing the gun has in common with the OSW is the curved 30 round magazine, which also fits a FAL. The barrel is too long, it has a solid stock, a non railed handguard, and the scope mount is bolted onto the side (looks the same as the one on the Indian Trichy assault rifle) rather than being part of the dust cover like on the OSW. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:03, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

== M16 page ==

Can someone tell me why the m16 page isnt working. The network doesnt respond each time i go on there.--Gunner5
:I'm having the same issue even with this page too. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== Bolts/Actions ==

I noticed that almost every weapon thta appears in the game, when completely out of ammo, instead of the bolt permanetly locking back, it simply closes, when more ammo is gained, the bolt will suddenly slide back when the mag is dropped.[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

== M16 is the USAF M16 ==
The M16 in the game is actually the Colt Model 604, the USAF variant of the M16, as seen below in the cropped and brightened screenshot showing the M16E1 type lower and lack of forward assist. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:33, 4 October 2011 (CDT)
[[File:COD BO M16E1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Visible in this shot is the detent housing which is just visible under the dust cover, which identifies this as a Model 604 as opposed to the original Army versions of the M16.]]

Call of Duty: Black Ops

2012-02-05T01:27:52Z

Big les: /* Enfield XL64 */

'''See the [[Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops|discussion page]] for miscellaneous weapon information.'''
[[Image:Cover_BLACKOPS_final.jpg|thumb|300px|right|''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' (2010)]]

'''WARNING: This page contains spoilers. Read at your own risk!'''

''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' (also known as ''CoD:BO'' or ''BO'') is the seventh main installment of the ''[[Call of Duty|Call of Duty series]]'' and the sequel of ''[[Call of Duty: World at War]]''. Developed by Treyarch and published by Activision, the game was released worldwide on November 9, 2010 for the PC, PS3, Xbox 360, Wii and Nintendo DS. The game sold over $1 billion dollars after six weeks of its release. The storyline takes place during the Cold War of the 1960s, where the player assumes control of two characters: Alex Mason (voiced by [[Sam Worthington]]), a Captain in the USMC who was recruited to the CIA and SOG and Jason Hudson (voiced by [[Ed Harris]]), a CIA special agent. Both are to find and eliminate a former World War II Soviet Army officer, Major General Nikita Dragovic (voiced by [[Eamon Hunt]]), alongside his assistant, Colonel Lev Kravchenko (voiced by [[Andrew Divoff]]). With the teams of Mason and Hudson, few more non-playable characters are included in the storyline: Frank Woods (voiced by [[James C. Burns]]), a former USMC Sergeant; Joseph Bowman (voiced by [[Ice Cube]]), a Chief Petty Officer of the U.S. Navy SEALs and Viktor Reznov (voiced by [[Gary Oldman]]), a former World War II Soviet Army Captain who was under the command of both Dragovic and Kravchenko, though he was betrayed by them.

'''The following weapons are seen in the video game ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'':'''
__TOC__ 

= Pistols =
== Colt M1911A1 ==
Two [[M1911A1]]s can be seen in the hands of Black Ops's signature soldier. The M1911A1s have tally marks engraved on them, and one of them has the name "Sally" engraved on it (based on the gun's upgrade in zombie mode, the other weapon is presumably "Mustang"). It can be dual wielded, and available attachments are a suppressor, extended magazines, and upgraded iron sights. It is also the players' starting weapon in zombie mode. There are two finishes on the M1911A1: in single player, it has a standard parkerized finish, while it has a bright nickel finish in multiplayer and zombie modes.

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Standard Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP, as seen in singleplayer.]]

[[Image:NickelPlatedM1911A1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Nickel Plated Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP, as seen in multiplayer and zombie mode.]]

[[Image:Shot0158.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Original M1911A1 as used in singleplayer mode. Note that it appears to have the serrated hammer of a [[Colt MK IV Series 80]].]]

[[Image:jfkm1911.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mason visualizes himself pointing an M1911A1 at President Kennedy, whose hand is on the right of the screen.]]

[[Image:Shot0201.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Same Original M1911A1 only with a silencer as used in singleplayer mode.]]

[[Image:Shot0000019.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nickel finish M1911A1 as used in multiplayer mode.]]

[[Image:Shot004501.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nickel finish M1911A1 as used in zombie mode.]]

== Colt Python ==
The [[Colt Python]] appears in-game as the "Python." The player uses one to clean Vietcong tunnels in the campaign mission "Victor Charlie." It has a snub-nose variant for use in multiplayer, which can be purchased, and decreases the amount of visual kick in exchange for less damage. Other available attachments are speed-loaders for your reserve ammo and a Colt Sporter Scope. When reloading, you hold it muzzle up and dump rounds instead of using the ejector rod. It seems that the Python is Mason's preferred sidearm, as he uses it in "Executive Order," "SOG," and "Victor Charlie."

[[Image:ColtPython6In.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Python - .357 Magnum.]]

[[Image:Coltpython25.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Colt Python Snub Nose - .357 Magnum w/ 2.5" barrel.]]

[[Image:CODBO-ColtPython.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snub-nose variant in reloading.]]

[[Image:Shot0232.jpg|600px|thumb|none|A VC Bookie hands a snub-nosed Colt Python to the player.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-10_21-12-46-95.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Python in idle.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-10_21-12-49-34.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Python in ADS.]]

[[Image:CODBO-Python-INV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Python in Create-A-Class menu.]]

== Makarov PM ==
The [[Makarov PM]] appears in in the game. Although it has a heel-mounted magazine release, it still uses the same reload animation as the M1911 and the CZ-75, which have their magazine releases behind the trigger. In multiplayer, it is rated as more powerful than the M1911 .45 pistol, odd considering the 9x18mm round used in the Makarov. Another inaccuracy is that it's modeled with an adjustable rear sight, which is only available on the civilian version.

[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Makarov PM - 9x18mm Makarov.]]

[[Image:Shot0030.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mason taking cover behind a coal car with Makarov PM in hand as Reznov and Sergei push forward.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-10_20-41-58-15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Makarov PM in ADS. (sights are incorrect for the military version)]]

[[Image:Shot0066.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Makarov PM in reloading. Note that the bullets in the magazine are obviously just a texture put on the side of the gun.]]

==Makarov PMM==
In the Nintendo DSI version, the [[Makarov_PM#Makarov_PMM|Makarov PMM]] pistol appears as the most common pistol in use. It incorrectly referred to as the Makarov PM. It also looks like a Makarov PM due to the wood grips. The gun has the 12 round capacity too. It also appears as the sidearm in zombies. The gun is relativity weak.
[[Image:Makarov PMM.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Makarov PMM - 9x18mm Makarov]]

== CZ 75 ==
The [[CZ 75|"Pre-B" CZ 75]] pistol is featured in the game, along with its machine pistol variant, the CZ 75 Automatic. In-game, its standard magazine capacity is incorrectly twelve rounds or eighteen with the extended magazine upgrade. The real capacity is sixteen rounds standard in 9mm (the in-game CZ 75 is definitely not the .40 S&W version). Other attachments include the aforementioned automatic conversion kit, high-contrast iron-sights, a suppressor, and dual-wield capability. The CZ 75 is highly anachronistic to Black Ops: not only did production first start in 1975, but the automatic variant wasn't introduced until 1992. All dual-wielded CZ 75's in single player have twenty rounds per magazine.

[[Image:Cz75.jpg|thumb|none|400px|"Pre-B" CZ 75 - 9x19mm.]]

[[Image:Cz75fa.jpg|thumb|none|400px|CZ 75 Automatic with spare magazine - 9x19mm.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_17-41-22-44.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dual CZ-75s.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_17-44-51-73.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CZ-75 Automatic.]]

[[Image:BLACKOPS-CZ75AUTOMATIC.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A CZ-75 Automatic in the player's hand.]]

== ASP 9==
In-game Mason uses an [[ASP 9]] in the Cuban levels, as do Cuban police officers. Its appearance in Black Ops is anachronistic, as it was not developed until the 1970s and was intended for special forces usage. A more historically-accurate choice would have been the [[Smith & Wesson Model 39]], on which the ASP 9 was based, as the Model 39 was developed in the 1950s.

[[Image:ASP 9.jpg|thumb|none|350px|ASP 9 (Highly customized pistol using a stock Smith & Wesson Model 39 as the starting point) - 9x19mm. This is the screen used firearm from the film ''[[Cobra]]'' ]]

[[Image:Shot05028.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ASP 9 in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0029.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ASP 9 in ADS.]]

[[Image:Shot0031.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ASP 9 in reloading.]]

==Tokarev TT-33==
Capt. Viktor Reznov uses a [[Tokarev TT-33]] and flashlight to clear the ship in the World War II mission "Project Nova." Kravchenko uses a TT-33 to execute German POWs. British commandos draw one if knocked into Last Stand (which is technically inaccurate; a more accurate choice would have been the [[Browning Hi-Power]]).

[[Image:TT-33.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Tokarev TT-33 - 7.62x25mm Tokarev. Tula Arsenal (Soviet Union) Note CCCP printing around the star on the plastic grips.]]

[[Image:Shot0126.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tokarev TT-33 in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0127.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tokarev TT-33 in ADS.]]

[[Image:Shot0129.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tokarev TT-33 in reloading with flashlight in left hand.]]

[[Image:Kravchenko-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kravchenko fires the TT-33's last shot before discarding the pistol and killing the last prisoner with a knife.]]

==Walther P38==
At the end of the first part of the World War II flashback mission "Project Nova," Dr. Friedrich Steiner waits for the Soviet troops with a [[Walther P38]] drawn, but does not attempt to use it. This is the only place where the [[Walther P38]] is seen.

[[Image:P38Black.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Walther P38 WWII dated with black grips - 9x19mm.]]

[[Image:Shot0120.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Walther P38 is in the right hand of Steiner.]]

= Submachine Guns =
== MAC-11 ==
A [[MAC-11]] with suppressor can be seen in one of the artworks, in the hands of a special forces operative crashing through a glass window. It can be found in the campaign level "Redemption" and is the player's secondary weapon in that level as well. Its appearance is also anachronistic as it was not developed until 1972. It would have been more accurate to see the MAC-10, designed in 1964 and actually used by S.O.G.

[[Image:Mac m11 9k.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MAC-11 - .380 ACP]]

[[Image:MAC10NICE.JPG|thumb|none|550px|MAC-11 with silencer on cool breaching artwork.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-15_23-27-05-25.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-15_23-27-05-94.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron-sights.]]

== Heckler & Koch MP5K Prototype ==
An [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Heckler & Koch MP5K Prototype|MP5K Prototype]] is featured in the game. Its appearance is massively anachronistic: the MP5 itself was developed in 1966, but the MP5K appears in the game in a level set in 1963, while the first MP5K prototype with wooden foregrip was developed in 1976. It would have been more accurate to see the HK54 prototype of the MP5.

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K - 9x19mm. Note wooden foregrip.]]

[[Image:CODBO-MP5K-FPV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP5K Multiple Attachment in "Executive Order".]]

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Same MP5K prototype as shown above, but with part of the foregrip missing for unknown reasons, giving it an appearance similar to the H&K [[UMP]].]]

[[Image:CODBO-MP5K.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

== CZ Sa. Vz.61 "Škorpion" ==
The [[SA Vz.61 Skorpion|Samopal Vzor 61 "Škorpion"]] is available in the game. It is depicted without its folding stock, but the unlockable Grip attachment adds and folds out the stock.

[[Image:CZ Vz.61.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion - .32 ACP]]

[[Image:CODBO-Savz61.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Akimbo Samopal Vzor 61 "Škorpion" in a 'Wager Match' video.]]

[[Image:Shot40017.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Samopal Vzor 61 "Škorpion" in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot004518.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Samopal Vzor 61 "Škorpion" in ADS.]]

[[Image:Shot00220.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Samopal Vzor 61 "Škorpion" in reloading.]]

== SITES Spectre M4 ==
A [[Spectre M4]] is one of the available SMGs. Its appearance is anachronistic, not developed until the 1980's.

[[Image:Sites_Spectre.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Spectre M4 - 9x19mm]]

[[Image:Call_of_Duty_Black_Ops_Multiplayer_Gameplay.mp4_snapshot_01.37_-2010.09.02_23.17.36-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Spectre M4 in MP footage]]

[[Image:Call_of_Duty_Black_Ops_Multiplayer_Gameplay.mp4_snapshot_01.42_-2010.09.02_23.17.48-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reflex sight view. Note the custom light-blue reticle.]]

[[Image:Call_of_Duty_Black_Ops_Multiplayer_Gameplay.mp4_snapshot_01.49_-2010.09.02_23.18.02-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the Spectre M4. Note the customized logo.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_17-46-42-71.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Spectre M4 idle.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_18-07-08-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron-sights.]]

== PM-63 RAK ==
A [[PM-63 RAK]] is another available SMG. It anachronistically appears in a level set in 1963, though the weapon wasn't introduced until 1965.

[[Image:PM63.JPG|none|thumb|400px|PM-63 RAK - 9x18mm]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-12_23-51-37-42.jpg|none|thumb|600px|PM-63 RAK]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-12_23-51-38-96.jpg|none|thumb|600px|Iron-sights]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_17-47-37-02.jpg|none|thumb|600px|Dual PM-63s]]

== IMI Uzi ==
The [[IMI Uzi]] is one of the available SMGs in-game. The Uzi was actually used by S.O.G. recon teams during the Vietnam War.

[[Image:Uzi.jpg|thumb|none|400px|IMI Uzi - 9x19mm.]]

[[Image:Shot0266.jpg|thumb|none|600px|IMI Uzi in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0267.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|IMI Uzi in ADS.]]

[[Image:Shot0269.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|IMI Uzi in reloading.]]

== Walther MPL ==
The Walther MPL is one of the available SMGs. It is also a very common weapon in zombie mode, where it carries twenty-four rounds, not thirty-two.

[[Image:Walther_mpl_1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Walther MPL with stock extended - 9x19mm]]

[[Image:CoDBlackOps-MPL.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Walther MPL being reloaded]]

[[Image:BO Walther MPL Sights.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Iron Sights]]

[[Image:BLACKOPS-MPL-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An MPL with red dot sight and red camo.]]

== KBP Instrument Design Bureau OTs-02 "Kiparis" ==

The KBP Instrument Design Bureau [[OTs-02 Kiparis]] with the wire stocks removed is one of the available submachine guns. It is extremely accurate, but holds only twenty rounds by default, increased to thirty with Extended Mags. It appears in the hands of Spetznaz operatives in the campaign and can be dual-wielded by the player. The Kiparis was designed in 1976, making it another anachronistic weapon.

[[Image:Kiparis1.jpg|thumb|none|550px|KBP Instrument Design Bureau [[OTs-02 Kiparis]] with suppressor and LAM - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_17-57-02-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dual [[OTs-02 Kiparis|Kiparii]] in the hands of the player.]]
[[Image:Kapris.png|thumb|none|600px|Confirmed in the Create-a-Class section.]]
[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_17-44-03-61.jpg|thumb|none|600px|[[OTs-02 Kiparis|Kiparis]] with reflex sight during the mission "Numbers".]]
[[Image:BLACKOPS-OTS02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player inserts a 30-round magazine into his golden [[OTs-02 Kiparis]].]]

==PPSh-41==
The Russian soldiers, including Capt. Viktor Reznov and Pvt. Dimitri Petrenko, use the [[PPSh-41]] in the World War II flashback mission "Project Nova." Unlike the previous COD games, the PPSh-41 in Black Ops uses 35-round box-magazines.

[[Image:Ppsh41-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|PPSh-41 - 7.62x25mm Tokarev.]]

[[Image:Shot0074.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PPSh-41 in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0075.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PPSh-41 in ADS.]]

[[Image:Shot040076.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PPSh-41 in reloading.]]

[[Image:Shot004539.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PPSh-41 on Pvt. Gerasimov's back and also in the player's hands.]]

==MP40==
The [[MP40]] is available to purchase for 1,000 points in the zombie maps Kino der Toten, Shi Nu Numa, Der riese, Verruct, and Call of the Dead. It is also used by the Germans in the World War II flashback mission "Project Nova." The MP40 in zombie mode has a blued finish

[[Image:MP40Side.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MP40 - 9x19mm]]

[[Image:Shot0108.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP40 in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0109.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP40 in ADS.]]

[[Image:Shot0110.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP40 in reloading.]]

==Sten==
The [[Sten]] Mk II is carried by British SAS commandos in the World War II flashback mission "Project Nova" and usable by the player.

[[Image:Sten.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sten Mk II Submachine gun - 9x19mm.]]

[[Image:Sten-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SAS commandos with Sten Mk. II's.]]

[[Image:Shot0143.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sten Mk II in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0148.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sten Mk II through iron sights.]]

[[Image:Shot0157.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sten Mk II while reloading.]]

==M1A1 Thompson==
The [[Thompson]] is avalible in zombie mode for 1200 points in the zombie maps Natch der untoten, Verruct, Shi Nu Numa, and Der Riese. The magazine size in zombie mode is a 20 round magazine.

[[Image:M1sb.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M1A1 Thompson with e0-round magazine - .45 ACP]]

== Type 100 ==

The [[Type 100 submachine gun|Type 100]] appears in Shi Nu Numa and Der Riese for 1000 points

[[File:Type100 1944.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Arisaka Type 100 submachine gun (1944 - 1945 model) - 8mm]]

= Assault Rifles =
== FAMAS F1 FELIN==
An early version of the [[FAMAS#FELIN|FAMAS FELIN]] appears in several levels. The FELIN is incredibly anachronistic for the time period the game is set in (the 1960s): not only was the base weapon not developed until 1978, this specific variant didn't come into existence until the late 1990s.

If upgraded with the Pack-A-Punch machine in zombies mode, it will turn into the "G16-GL35"(leet speak for GIGGLES), which fires laser-like rounds, has a forty-five round magazine instead of thirty, and a custom red dot sight.

[[Image:FamasFelin.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS F1 FELIN - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[Image:CODBO-FAMAS-FPV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS F1 w/ multiple attachments in level "Redemption".]]

[[Image:Shot0081.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS F1 fitted with red dot sight and "Flora" camouflage.]]

[[Image:Shot00710.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Upgraded FAMAS in zombies mode. Note the sci-fi camo pattern.]]

== Composite AK-47 ==
The [[AK-47]] that appears in the game is a composite of several different AK-47 variants, e.g. straighter magazine similar to those on AKs chambered for 5.45x39mm or 5.56x45mm. Its overall appearance seems close to a WASR-2. In multiplayer, the Extended Mag attachment gives the AK-47 an RPK's magazine (the RPK in-game is the RPK-74, chambered in 5.45x39mm, hinting that the AK in-game is also chambered in 5.45x39mm). Also, the Suppressor attachment looks nearly identical to an AK-74's muzzle brake. In the singleplayer campaign, the Soviets and North Vietnamese Army use this rifle with a variety of accessories.

[[Image:Ak74p.jpg|thumb|none|425px|Prototype AK-74 - 5.45x39mm]]

[[Image:WASR2.jpg|thumb|none|425px|A US imported Romanian WASR-2, 5.45x39mm]]

[[Image:AK-47.jpg|thumb|none|425px|Type I AK-47 - 7.62x39mm]]

[[Image:Shot0039.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reload - note the weapon lacking vent holes on the handguard and an empty magazine being inserted.]]

[[Image:Shot0050.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AK "held" by Reznov]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-10_21-24-02-22.jpg|thumb|none|600px|On-screen blip for picking up a dropped "AK-47".]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_17-09-41-46.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AK with RPK-74 magazine.]]

== AKS-74U==
The [[AKS-74U]] returns from ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]'' with the same fabricated name (AK74u) and the same erroneous designation as a sub-machine gun. It has a black foregrip, steel magazines, and no stock. Anachronistic to Black Ops, it was not developed until 1979 (the full size variant, the AK-74, didn't enter service until 1974).

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKS-74U - 5.45x39mm.]]

[[Image:Shot002780.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AKS-74U in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0021.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AKS-74U through sights.]]

[[Image:Shot00243.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AKS-74U while reloading. Note the empty magazine.]]

== IMI Galil ARM ==
The [[IMI Galil ARM]] is available in the game. It has a thirty-five round magazine with a medium rate of fire. The standard rear sight for the Galil is the flip-up tritium night sights instead of the flip peep-sights, raised dramatically to accommodate the camera's point of view. The carry handle is on the wrong side and the handguard is from the Galil AR, which does not have the underside cutout for the bipod, although it appears to still contain it. Appearance is anachronistic, as the Galil series of rifles was not developed until the late 1960s, and did not enter service until 1973.

Upgrading a Galil with the Pack-A-Punch machine in zombie mode will turn it into the "Lamentation"; fitted with a red dot sight (which has a blue lens and an unusual blue reticle) and a sci-fi camo pattern, it fires laser-like rounds.

[[Image:Galil.jpg|thumb|500px|none|IMI Galil ARM - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-15_15-52-20-58.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Galil in idle.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-15_15-52-21-78.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Galil looking through iron sights.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-15_15-56-07-41.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jungle camouflage variant.]]

[[Image:COD BO Galil Sights.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Another view of the Galil looking through iron sights, but note that the sights are in fact the flip-up night sights.]]

[[Image:Shot0022222.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Upgraded Galil in zombie mode. Note the sci-fi camo pattern.]]

[[Image:Shot002783.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Upgraded Galil looking through red dot sight. Note the unusual reticle.]]

== Steyr AUG ==

The [[Steyr AUG]] is available in the game, used only in levels that take place in the Ural Mountains. It has a Swarovski scope, arctic camo paint, and a suppressor in some of the scenes. Its appearance in the game is anachronistic, as the level takes place in 1968 but the prototype for the AUG was not patented until 1974 and was not introduced into Austrian military service until 1977, entering wide service in 1978. The [[AUG#Steyr AUG A2 / AUG SR - Special Receiver|AUG A2]] is used in multiplayer (since it incorporates a rail top with sights instead of the default optical scope), the A2 variant depicted in multiplayer was not developed until 1997.

If upgraded with the Pack-A-Punch machine in zombie mode, it will turn into the "AUG-50M3" (leet speak for AUGSOME, a play on the word awesome), firing laser-like rounds and attached with [[Knight's Armament Masterkey]], but both weapons keep their normal ammunition counts. Reloading the AUG-50M3's Masterkey counts each reloaded shell twice, allowing the player to reload all six rounds with just three shells.

The AUG lacked its foregrip in the beta, but has it in the final game.

[[Image:Steyr-AUG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Steyr AUG - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[Image:CODBO-AUG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FPS view of the AUG]]

[[Image:Skydivingcodbo.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Our skydiving protagonist takes "two is one and one is none" to a new level when he carries an AUG to complement his primary weapon: another AUG. You know, in case one explodes or something.]]

[[Image:59.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Beta Steyr AUG without foregrip in hands of Agent Weaver. Note how he's holding it by the barrel; a bad idea in real life...]]

[[Image:COD BO AUG 3rd person.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Agent Weaver with a Steyr AUG in the final version of the game. Note the foregrip.]]

[[Image:AUGICONBO.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Steyr Aug´s pick-up icon in MP footage.]]

[[Image:Call_of_Duty_Black_Ops_Multiplayer_Gameplay.mp4_snapshot_00.07_-2010.09.02_23.16.22-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AUG with reflex sight. Note the custom logo on the side.]]

[[Image:Call_of_Duty_Black_Ops_Multiplayer_Gameplay.mp4_snapshot_00.22_-2010.09.02_23.16.45-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reflex sight view. Note custom reticle.]]

[[Image:Shot0078611.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Upgraded Steyr AUG in zombie mode.]]

[[Image:Shot0004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Like above, only with the Masterkey in use. Note the sci-fi camo pattern and heat shield.]]

== Colt Commando ==

Throughout the game, it appears to have a short barrel like the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Carbine/Model 653/Model 727/Model 733|Colt Model 733]] and a flat top. The flat top hints at a [[M16 rifle series#Colt Model 933|Colt Model 933]]. While the weapon is not completely anachronistic, since the Rock Island Arsenal did experiment with a weaver-rail mounted [[AR-15]] known as the Model 656, the presence of back-up iron sights on the weapon can be considered anachronistic. It would be more accurate if this Commando was modeled after the [[M16 rifle series#Colt XM177/CAR-15/Commando Series|XM177 carbine]], which was developed during the Vietnam War.
Early screenshots and footage showed a modeling mistake on the rifle, with the magazine looking as if it were stretched or partly falling out, but the final game has it at its proper length. In-game, the weapon holds thirty rounds in the standard twenty-round magazine, while equipping the Extended Mags attachment gives it forty-five rounds in the real thirty-round curved magazine. This goes for the M16 too as it acts more or less just like it.

Unlike some rifles in the game, the sling is wrapped around the weapon, instead of being clipped onto the sling mounts and allowed to hang loosely. If you look closely, the sling blocks the bolt release button, so the shooter would have to use the charging handle every time he loads a fresh magazine. Even so, the reload animation of a fresh magazine still uses the bolt release button.

Upgrading the Commando with the Pack-A-Punch machine in zombie mode turns it into the "Predator" (a reference to the [[Arnold Schwarzenegger|Schwarzenegger]] movie ''[[Predator]]''. ''[[Commando]]'' is also the name of another movie in which Schwarzenegger starred, hence the reference.) "Predator" fires laser-like rounds and has a forty-round magazine instead of thirty.

Also note that a Commando (and the M16 for that matter) mounted with optics has the front sight and the gas block removed. This would prevent the gun from firing automatically. The shooter would have to manually rack the bolt to load the next round into the chamber, effectively making the gun a bolt action. Once again this design goof is seen in the Campaign and Multiplayer. This same goof was previously seen in ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]'' and ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]''. Interestingly, all NPCs in the campaign who use either the M16 or Commando with optical attachments still retain the front sight posts and gas blocks.

[[Image:Colt_Model_733.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Commando - 5.56x45mm. This is supposed to be the Colt Commando in-game only with flat top.]]

[[Image:Colt m4 commando 03.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Model 933. This rifle has a removable carrying handle, with an RIS underneath. This is possibly what the Commando was based upon.]]

[[Image:Shot0177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Commando with [[M203 grenade launcher]] in idle. Note the sling blocks the bolt release button.]]

[[Image:Snapshot20100809133031.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Suppressed Colt Commando with reflex sight. Note clan tag engraved on the charging handle.]]

[[Image:Snapshot20100809133054.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Commando in reflex sight view. Note smiley face reticle.]]

[[Image:Snapshot20100809133126.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Commando with Jungle Camo in First Person. Note RC-XD Car killstreak.]]

[[Image:Snapshot20100809135256.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron-sight view for Snow Camo variant.]]

[[Image:CODBOAR-15a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Frank Woods with his Colt Commando and early Colt Scope. Note the modeling mistake of the magazine.]]

[[Image:CODBOAR15.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Nice detail on camouflaged variation. Note Colt scope.]]

[[Image:Shot007817.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Upgraded Commando in zombie mode. Note the sci-fi camo pattern.]]

== Colt USAF M16 (Colt Model 604)==
The USAF variant of the original [[M16]] is available in the game, and can be identified by its M16E1 partial magazine fence lower and lack of forward assist. Like with the aforementioned Colt Commando, the thirty-round mag only appears with the Extended Mags attachment and holds forty-five rounds. It is correctly depicted as firing fully-automatic in single player, but incorrectly uses a three-round burst fire mode in multiplayer and Zombie mode. Treyarch developer Josh Olin has stated that it was "an early prototype", although the first variant that was capable of burst fire was the Model 606B (essentially a heavy barrelled M16 with a four position selector switch tested in 1965) was fitted with a forward assist, unlike the weapon in game which also appears to have a standard weight barrel.

If upgrading the M16 with the Pack-A-Punch machine in zombie mode, it turns into the "Skullcrusher," which fires laser-like rounds and mounts an [[M203 grenade launcher]]. Both the M16 and the M203 keep their normal ammunition count.

[[File:USAF Colt Model 604.jpg|thumb|none|500px|USAF M16 (Colt Model 604) - 5.56x45mm. This is an early model as indicated by its M16E1 type partial magazine fence lower.]]

[[Image:Shot0131.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|M16 in idle.]]

[[Image:M16_CoDBO_SlabSide.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Carlos throws Mason an M16. Visible in this shot is the partial fence lower and lack of forward assist which identifies this as a Colt Model 604 (A cropped and brightened version of this image can be seen [[Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#M16_is_the_USAF_M16|here]]). Another thing to point out is the unusual length of the M203's barrel. A standard barrel length of an M203 is 12in(305mm) and usually the tip of the M203 runs parallel to the Bayonet lug of the M16. This might be due to the M16 being modeled smaller in 3rd person.]]

[[Image:Shot0132.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|M16 through iron-sights.]]

[[Image:Shot0133.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|M16 while reloading. Note [[Knight's Armament Masterkey]].]]

[[Image:Shot0119.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Frank Woods with his M16. Note that the 3rd person model for M16 is smaller than its real life counterpart.]]

[[Image:CODBO-M16-INV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16 in Create-A-Class menu.]]

[[Image:Shot0013.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Upgraded M16 in zombie mode. Note the sci-fi camo pattern.]]

== M14 Rifle ==
The [[M14 Rifle]] is one of the assault rifles (correctly, battle rifle) used in-game and also distinguished by its firepower. For some reason, it uses an eight-round magazine in zombie mode despite using a twenty-round one in single-player and multiplayer modes. If comparing the M14 to the [[M1 Garand]] from ''[[Call of Duty: World at War]]'', it's actually the same weapon, only with a different model, more ammunition held at once, and a reloading animation taken from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'''s [[Modern Warfare 2#Mk. 14 Mod 1 EBR|Mk 14 EBR]]. Various attachments can be fitted: [[M203 grenade launcher]], flamethrower, Colt scope, red dot sight, reflex sight, [[Knight's Armament Masterkey]] shotgun, suppressor, foregrip, IR scope and extended magazine.

The in-game model has a pistol grip and bipod like the M14E2 LMG, but is semi-automatic only. Attaching a foregrip in multiplayer increases its resemblance to the M14E2.

[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M14 rifle - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]

[[Image:M14E2SAW.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M14E2 Light Machine Gun - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]

[[Image:CODBO4.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|M14 fitted with Colt scope as seen in single-player.]]

[[Image:Shot0083.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M14 with Colt scope and Ice camo in idle.]]

[[Image:CODBO-M14-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M14 looking through iron-sights. The HUD indicates this one has the Extended Mags attachment, though note that this is one of only two guns in the game where the magazine is not modeled differently with that attachment.]]

[[Image:CODBO-M14-INV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M14 in Create-A-Class inventory. Note the M14E2-like pistol grip.]]

[[Image:CODBOM14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M14 in Yukon (snow) camo, custom logo on the side, and Colt scope. Note F-4 jet fighter dropping napalm bombs.]]

== Heckler & Koch G11K2 ==
The [[Heckler & Koch G11]]K2 is one of the prototype weapons in the game, and is used by Dr. Daniel Clarke in the level "Numbers." As in real life, it fires in bursts, at a very high rate of fire with incredible accuracy and close to zero recoil. Its appearance in the 1960s is anachronistic; the G11 was not fully developed until the late 1980s, and working prototypes were not created until the early 1970s. However the G11 variant in game is based on the pre-production version, the G11K2 which was developed in 1989 and incorporates attachment points for spare magazines on either side of the handguard. The weapon is also erroneously depicted with iron sights; G11s were never designed with iron sights, and instead incorporated a scope instead (which is an available attachment in gameplay).

If upgrading the [[G11]] with the Pack-A-Punch machine in zombies mode, it will turn into more powerful version called "G115 Generator"; firing laser-like rounds, but keeps the normal ammunition count. In multiplayer, it can be fitted with a Low-Power or Variable Zoom scope.

[[Image:HK_G11_caseless_Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch G11 - 4.73x33mm.]]

[[Image:CODBO-G11-FPV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|G11 as seen in "Numbers"]]

[[Image:CODBO-G11-SCP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the G11 in the level "Numbers"]]

[[Image:Call_of_Duty_Black_Ops_Multiplayer_Gameplay.mp4_snapshot_02.34_-2010.09.02_23.18.39-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|G11 in multiplayer mode.]]

[[Image:Shot0088814.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Upgraded G11 in zombies mode. Note the sci-fi camo pattern.]]

[[Image:BLACKOPS-G11-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player rotates the cocking handle of his G11.]]

[[Image:BLACKOPS-G11-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Using the Low-Power Scope of the G11.]]

== FN FAL ==

The [[FN FAL]] is seen mostly in the hands of Cuban soldiers and some NVA soldiers in-game. The rifle is aesthetically accurate in the game, however the wooden furniture and semi-automatic fire mode would suggest that this weapon is more specifically the "G Series" FAL, the civilian version of the FAL which was imported into the US in the 1960s.

[[Image:FN_FAL_50_00.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FN FAL 50.00 - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]

[[File:Fn fal g series.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FN FAL "G Series" - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]

[[Image:Shot0022.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FN FAL in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0023.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FN FAL through sights.]]

[[Image:Shot0026.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FN FAL while reloading.]]

== Enfield XL64==
The [[Enfield L85 rifle series#XL64E5|Enfield XL64]] is one the assault rifles available in the game. Hudson carries an Enfield fitted with an infrared scope and a Masterkey under-barrel shotgun as during the singleplayer mission "Rebirth." The Enfield is anachronistic as it was not developed until the mid-1970s. Members of the British Army, including the Scots Guards, tested the XL64 during the early 1980's to replace the L1A1 SLR. The XL64 eventually gave birth to the SA80/L85 series of rifles in service with the British Army.

[[Image:EnfieldXL64.jpg|thumb|none|500px|XL64E5 - 4.85x49mm]]

[[Image:Boenfield1.jpg|thumb|none|200px|XL64 in Create-A-Class.]]

[[Image:EnfieldXL64ingame.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XL64 in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot009120.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XL64 attached with IR scope on the ground.]]

== Sturmgewehr 44 ==
The [[Sturmgewehr 44]] is used by the Germans in the World War II mission "Project Nova" and can be used by the player. Also is able to purchase for 1200 points in the zombie maps Verruct, Shi Nu Numa, and Der Riese.

[[Image:Sturmgewehr_44.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Sturmgewehr 44 - 7.92x33mm]]

[[Image:Shot1111.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sturmgewehr 44 in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot4582.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sturmgewehr 44 in ADS.]]

[[Image:Shot0086.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sturmgewehr 44 in reloading.]]

== M1 Garand ==

The [[M1 Garand]] is used in zombie mode for 600 points and is found in the zombie maps Verruct and Shi Nu Numa. Its looks similar to the [[M14]].

[[Image:M1 Garand.jpg‎ |thumb|none|550px|M1 Garand - .30-06]]

== Gewehr 43 ==

The [[Gewehr 43]] is 600 points in the zombie maps Verruct, Shi Nu Numa, and Der Riese. Holds 10 shots in the magazine.

[[Image:K43 nc.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Gewehr 43 - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

== Kar98k ==

The [[Kar98k]] is 200 points in the zombie maps Natch Der Untoten, Verruct, and Der Riese. It's effect on zombies stops at round 4.

[[Image:Karabiner-98K.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Karabiner 98k - German manufacture 1937 date - 7.92x57mm]]

== M1903 Spring Field ==

The [[M1903 Spring Field]] is purchasable in the zombie map Verruct on the american side for 200 points.

[[Image:M1903Mark1.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Springfield M1903 Mk 1 - .30-06]]

== Type 99 Arisaka ==

The [[type 99]] is able to puchase in the zombie map Shi Nu Numa for 200 points.

[[Image:Arisaka-Type-99.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Arisaka Type 99 Rifle - 7.7mm Arisaka]]

= Shotguns =

== Franchi SPAS-12 ==

The [[Franchi SPAS-12]] is present in the game. It should be noted that the SPAS-12 is unrealistically depicted as being used by Vietnamese and American soldiers in 1968, even though it did not actually enter production until 1979. In contrast to MW2's SPAS, the one featured in Black Ops is semi-auto and has its stock folded. Despite this, when it is picked up and when reloading the player pumps the weapon, even though the charging handle on the right side of it must be pulled back to chamber a new shell in semi-auto mode, as the pump is locked forward. It should also be noted that the Dragon's Breath rounds used in one campaign mission are underpowered and not rated for use in semis due to insufficient energy to cycle the action. If upgrading the SPAS-12 with the Pack-A-Punch machine in Zombies mode, it will turn into a more powerful version called "SPAZ-24"; firing laser-like rounds, but has 24 shells instead of 8 and also it reloads the entire magazine only after one shell, which only takes a second. Another note of interest is that the middle of the butt-pad on the folding stock is incorrectly depicted as being hollowed out, leaving only two rectangular sheets on the ends the stock, you can see a similar thing in the game F.E.A.R. This is done so the shotgun can be aimed down the iron sights, as they are normally unusable whilst the stock is folded.

[[Image:Franchi-SPAS12.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Franchi SPAS-12 - 12 Gauge.]]

[[Image:CODBO-SPAS12-FPV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SPAS-12 in the level "Numbers"]]

[[Image:Shot0084.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SPAS-12 with silencer attached in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot002307.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Upgraded SPAS-12 in zombie mode. Note the sci-fi camo pattern.]]

== Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" ==

An [[Ithaca 37|Ithaca 37 "Stakeout"]] with a heat shield and unusable shell holder wrapped around the receiver, is available in the game. Originally thought to be the full-stocked Trench Gun variant due to insufficient detail, until shots of the world model revealed that it really is the Stakeout.

[[Image:Stakeout-1-.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" - 12 Gauge.]]

[[Image:Shot0123.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0124.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" in ADS.]]

[[Image:Shot0125.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" in reloading. Note the vertical foregrip.]]

== KS-23 ==

A [[KS-23]] shotgun/carbine is seen only in the game's single-player mode. It holds more rounds (seven) than it actually does in reality (three in the tube mag, one in the chamber). Appearance is anachronistic, as the weapon wasn't designed until the 1970s.

[[Image:Ks23-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|KS-23 with a fixed wooden stock - 23mm]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-10_14-50-29-48.jpg|thumb|none|600px|KS-23 idle]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-10_14-50-54-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|KS-23 iron-sights]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-15_15-04-29-16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Icon for picking up KS-23]]

=== "Harpoon" ===

A KS-23 with a harpoon and cable is used by Mason to shoot down a Soviet helicopter during "Vorkuta".
[[Image:Shot0041.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Beretta Model 682 Shotgun ==

An [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun#Over and Under Shotgun (O/U)|Over and Under shotgun]] under the name "Olympia" is first seen during some cutscene footage and featured also in Singleplayer and Zombie mode. While named after the Rottweil Olympia Over/Under 72 shotgun, it is in fact modeled on a different over-under shotgun, the [[Beretta 682]].

[[Image:Browning_0-U.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Browning O/U - 12 Gauge. This is ''not'' the same shotgun used in game.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-12_23-49-35-97.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Olympia" in idle.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-12_23-49-37-55.jpg|600px|thumb|none|"Olympia" in ADS.]]

[[Image:Shot0252.jpg|600px|thumb|none|"Olympia" in reloading.]]

== High Standard Model 10 ==
The [[High Standard Model 10]] is the last shotgun unlocked, holds 4 shells and can be dual wielded; in zombie mode it holds 6 shells. Despite that in real life the HS-10 features a warning label that reads, "Caution: Do not fire from left shoulder" due to the ejection port's location, when it is dual-wielded, could easily result in hot brass flying in your face.

[[Image:High standard 10 SHG.jpg|thumb|500px|none|[[High Standard Model 10]]B - 12 gauge.]]

[[Image:CODBO-HS10-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Model 10 in reloading.]]

[[Image:Shot0089.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Akimbo Model 10 with red camouflage.]]

[[Image:Shot0002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An upgraded Model 10 in zombie mode, called ''Typhoid & Mary''. Note the sci-fi camouflage.]]

== Winchester Model 1887 ==

A [[Winchester Model 1887]] is seen being wielded one handed while riding a motorcycle near the end of the level "Vorkuta". It is erroneously depicted as being able to fire two shots before needing to be spin-cocked, why this was done is unknown, but it means this 1887 is the opposite of the one in ''MW2'': that one's barrel was incorrectly used as a magazine tube, while this one's magazine tube is incorrectly used as a barrel. The model appears to the same one from [[Modern Warfare 2#Winchester Model 1887|Modern Warfare 2]].

[[Image:Win1887shotgunT2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Sawed-off Winchester 1887 with large-lever loop - 10 Gauge.]]

[[Image:Shot0065.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Picture provided to show how alike this lever action weapon looks to the Winchester Model 1887 texture from Modern Warfare 2. It is almost an exact copy. Mason, meanwhile, is apparently attempting to get the most spectacular lever bite in history.]]

[[Image:Shot0060.jpg|600px|thumb|none|This scene looks a lot like [[Terminator 2]]....]]

== Double Barreled Shotgun ==

In the opening cutscene for the newly-released zombie mode level "Call of the Dead", [[Michael Rooker]] is seen using a pair of sawn-off [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun|12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotguns]] akimbo while acting for a zombie film. These are not usable in the Call of the dead zombie map, however, and they appear to be reused models from [[Call of Duty: World at War]]. In one instance, probably as homage to typical hollywood inaccuracies, he fires five shots without reloading. Also purchasable in zombie maps Natch der Untoten, Verruct, And Der Riese for 1500 points. The sawed off version does not come out in Der Riese only the one with long barrel comes out in Der Riese.

[[Image:BaikalSBSShotgun.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Modern Baikal Commercial hammerless side by side shotgun - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:Remington SBS.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Sawn-off double barreled shotgun - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:DBShotgun-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Michael Rooker aiming one of his sawed-off double barreled shotguns at a zombie.]]

== Winchester M1897 ==

The [[Winchester M1897]] is avalible in zombie mode in the zombie maps Natch der untoten, Verruct, Shi Nu Numa, and Der Diese for 1500 points. Its is the best with the Perk a Cola "Speed Cola".

[[Image:1897.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Winchester Model 1897 Trench Gun - 12 gauge]]

= Machine Guns =

== RPK-74 ==
The [[RPK-74]] appears early in the single player campaign, in the hands of Cuban soldiers in "Operation 40" (set in 1961). The RPK-74's handguards are ribbed like the later RPK-74M, even though the weapon is ostensibly the earlier model with wooden handguards. The weapon features a tech-SIGHT rear sight aperture, which is removed and replaced with the standard AK top cover when an optic is attached. Compared to the two other AK-type rifles, the RPK-74 has an artificially long reload animation. It is called "RPK" in-game, but is actually modelled after a RPK-74, which is anachronistic, as the RPK-74 wasn't introduced until 1974 (alongside the AK-74). The tech-SIGHT rear sight aperture is also anachronistic. A more appropriate choice for the time period would be the Kalashnikov RPK, which was introduced in the 1950s.

[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|500px|RPK-74 - 5.45x39mm]]

[[Image:RPKblackopsy.JPG|thumb|none|600px|RPK in the Black Ops teaser.]]

[[Image:BORPK.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK with "ACOG Sight" in idle.]]

[[Image:BORPK2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle. Note relocated rear sights, with "Dual Mags".]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-10_14-56-36-23.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron-sights.]]

== Heckler & Koch HK-21E ==
The [[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_series_machine_guns#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK21|HK-21E]] is in the game, but uses G3 Magazines holding 30 rounds. The extended drum magazine holds 60 rounds in multiplayer, and 80 in single player. Other attachments include various optics. If upgrading the HK-21E with the Pack-A-Punch machine in zombie mode, it will turn into more powerful version called "H115 Oscillator"; firing laser-like rounds, and has 150 round magazine. While the HK-21 itself is not anachronistic to Black Ops (being developed in 1961), the HK-21E variant was not developed until the 1980s.

[[Image:HK21E.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch HK21E - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]

[[Image:CODBO-HK21.jpg|thumb|none|600px|HK-21E in idle.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_18-11-39-63.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hudson examining a drum-magged HK-21E in Clarke's weapon's cache.]]

[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_18-11-48-41.jpg|thumb|none|600px|HK-21E idle. Not seen in this shot of the weapons cache is the M202 FLASH quad-barrel rocket launcher.]]

[[Image:Shot000789874.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Upgraded HK-21E in zombies mode. Note the sci-fi "tattoo".]]

== Stoner 63 ==

A [[Stoner 63]] in it's assault rifle configuration is unlocked as the last light machine gun in Multiplayer.

[[Image:Stoner63ARifle Config1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Cadillac Gage Stoner 63A - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[Image:CODBO-Stoner63-FPV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stoner 63 in the final level of the game "Redemption".]]

[[Image:BlackOps-STONER63.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

== GE M134 Minigun ==

A handheld [[GE M134 Minigun|M134 Minigun]] is available in multiplayer as a Kill Streak reward and can also be found during the campaign level "Vorkuta", under the name "Death Machine".

This weapon is a modified version of the now-standard Terminator 2-style Minigun with some slight alterations. First the chainsaw grip is offset to the left and the Y-frame and rear grip are tilted to the right so that when the player holds the weapon, it is tilted to the left. Because of this the Y-frame is not actually attached to the recoil adapter assemblies which makes them completely extraneous. Additionally the barrel cluster incorrectly spins clock-wise from the player's perspective and features a custom three-disc barrel clamp rather than the traditional four-disc clamp.

Brass and links eject from the 12 o'clock position sending a stream of shells up and to the left. In reality the links would be ejected from the feeder/delinker where the chute is attached on the right side of the weapon and the brass would eject from the bottom. Likely this was altered for a more cinematic effect while using the gun. Finally the firing mechanism is a thumb switch on top of the rear grip rather than a traditional trigger.

The gun itself is fed from a 999-round (499 rounds in multiplayer) belt loaded into a chute from the first person perspective. In the third person the weapon has no visible ammo or power source. Despite the rotational speed of the barrel cluster (it spins so fast that it appears to be slowly rotating the opposite direction) the weapon only fires about 1000 rounds per minute. There is a slight spin up and spin down of the barrels before and after firing. Though it is only a fraction of a second and doesn't impede gameplay, it is technically incorrect as the M134's action is cycled by barrel rotation and would start firing as soon as the cluster rotated and would continue to fire until the cluster stopped. The XM214 had a feature that would declutch the feeder/delinker during spin down to conserve ammo, but the "Death Machine" is based on the M134, not the XM214, which was developed much later.

It is also worth noting that the Sentry gun and the Huey door gun Miniguns both use the handheld "Death Machine" model including custom hand grips and barrel clamps. The door gun version features an ammo can to the left of the gun with a chute that appears to feed into the left recoil adapter mounting assembly, which is incorrect since the feeder/delinker is installed on the right side of the weapon.

The "Death Machine" is a power up in zombie mode that has infinity ammo and is only avalible for 1 minute. This power up is a blue glowing shape of bulits. And is only avalible in the zombie maps "Five", Ascention, Call of the Dead, and Moon.

[[Image:Minigun_2.JPG|thumb|none|400px|'''Airsoft''' handheld M134 Minigun with 'Chainsaw grip' to handle the recoil force. This variant was seen in ''[[Terminator 2: Judgement Day]]''. This is an airsoft version which retains the half-circle attachment point for the M60 foregrip from ''Predator''; the real T2 minigun did not have this - (fake) 7.62x51mm]]

[[Image:Shot0054.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M134 Minigun that somehow appeared in Soviet prison in Siberia. Note the offset chainsaw grip and Y-frame tilted in relation to the recoil adapter assemblies and the top of the weapon. The drive motor was positioned in relation to the Y-frame but since the gun is sitting askew, it should on the underside.]]

[[Image:Shot0058.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mason "raising hell" with the hand-held M134.]]

== M60E3 ==
The [[M60#M60E3_Machine_Gun | M60E3 ]] general purpose machine gun, known as "The Pig" during the Vietnam war, is available in the game. It does not appear to have the forward pistol grip. In-game, the M60E3 uses a modern flip-up rear iron sights instead its own original sights, like some other weapons available in ''Black Ops''. It is labelled as "M60" during gameplay, but is modeled after a M60E3, which the appearance during the Vietnam War is anachronistic, as only the original M60 was available at the time (the E3 variant was not introduced until 1986). It uses the same incorrect reloading animation as all the belt-fed machine guns in ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare|Modern Warfare]]'' and ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'': The player pulls the charging handle first, then he swaps the ammo belts, a reverse of what should be done in real life.

[[Image:M60E3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M60E3 - 7.62x51mm]]

[[Image:BOM601.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M60E3 in idle. Note the backwards rear iron sights.]]

== FG42 ==
The [[FG42]] can be purchased in the zombie map Der Riese for 1800 pionts and holds 35 rounds.

[[Image:FG421stPattern.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FG42 - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

=Sniper Rifles =

== Accuracy International Arctic Warfare ==
The [[Accuracy International Arctic Warfare]] is available in the game. While it doesn't appear in singleplayer, it can be considered highly anachronistic to the Zombies and Multiplayer modes of Black Ops happening during the 1960's (the Accuracy International PM entered British Military service in 1982). Most definitely not the police variant due to the dark-olive finish on the furniture. In game it is called the L96A1.

[[Image:Accuracy International Arctic Warfare - Psg 90.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Accuracy International AW - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

[[Image:AWPCODBO.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[Image:AWPCODBO2.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[Image:BLACKOPS-AW-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player holds his Arctic Warfare with Siberia camo while performing a forward jump.]]

== Carcano M91/38 ==
Gun used on November 22, 1963, by Lee Harvey Oswald to assassinate U.S. President John F. Kennedy, can be seen for a second in a trailer. This is the first of many allusions to Kennedy's assassination throughout the game's campaign. This gun isn't usable in-game.
[[Image:CarcanoM91-38ShortRifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle - 6.5mm.]]

[[Image:CARCANO.JPG|thumb|none|500px|This photograph is the ''actual'' Carcano used to kill President Kennedy.]]

== SVD Dragunov ==

The [[SVD Dragunov]] is one of the sniper rifles available in the game. Can be used with Variable Zoom Scope, NSPU Night Vision Scope, PK-AV Combat Scope, Silencer, or Extended Magazines.

[[Image:SVD Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SVD Dragunov - 7.62x54mm R]]

[[Image:CODBO-SVD-FPV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SVD in the level "Executive Order".]]

[[Image:CODBO-SVD-SCP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SVD's PSO-1 scope as seen in the level "Executive Order." This is a poor replica of a modern POSP scope reticle and is totally incorrect for a period PSO-1.]]

== Walther WA 2000 ==

A [[Walther WA 2000]] appears as part of Mason's loadout in the mission "Victor Charlie", which makes it anachronistic, because "Victor Charlie" takes place in 1968 and the WA 2000 was not manufactured until 1982. Even a prototype would be anachronistic, because the gun was designed in the late 70s.

[[Image:Walther-WA2000.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Walther WA 2000 - .300 Win Mag.]]

[[Image:Shot0170.jpg|thumb|none|600px|WA 2000 in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0172.jpg|thumb|none|600px|WA 2000 while reloading.]]

== Heckler & Koch PSG-1 ==
The [[Heckler & Koch PSG-1]] is a selectable weapon when playing as Agent Jason Hudson in the slums of Kowloon. In multiplayer, it is unlocked after every other sniper rifle is purchased. Its appearance in the game is anachronistic as the [[PSG-1]] was not developed until the 1970s. In addition it seems to be, for some reason, modeled with the standard G3 tropical hand-guard, attached bipod, and a shorter barrel. This suggests it was modeled after the SR-9 rifle, which is the civilian version of the PSG-1, though the SR-9 was not designed until 1990.
[[Image:H&KPSG01.jpg‎ |thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch PSG-1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

[[Image:Shot0033.jpg|thumb|none|600px|H&K PSG-1 in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0035.jpg|thumb|none|600px|H&K PSG-1 in reloading. Note the empty magazine.]]

[[Image:Shot0034.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Looking through the H&K PSG-1 scope.]]

[[Image:Shot0032.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The H&K PSG-1 on wall, note G3 foregrip, bipod, and short barrel. Also visible are a SITES [[Spectre M4]], [[CZ-75]] and dual OTs-02 Kiparis.]]

[[Image:Goldpsg1.png|thumb|none|600px|In-game golden H&K PSG-1.]]

== Mosin Nagant Rifle ==
The [[Mosin Nagant Rifle]] is found during the World War II Flashback mission "Project Nova", available open sighted as well. NPCs hold the in-world model of the weapon as if it has a pistol grip; this is due to recyling poses used by weapons which do have pistol grips (similar issues in other games result in sights like an enemy replacing a non-existent box magazine on a belt fed weapon, for example). In addition all of the models have a downturned bolt handle, actually only a feature of sniper versions.

[[Image:MosinNagantM9130Sniper.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Full-length, Mosin Nagant M91/30 Sniper Rifle with Russian PU 3.5x sniper scope and down turned bolt handle - 7.62x54R.]]

[[Image:M9130.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Full-length, Soviet Mosin Nagant M91/30 - 7.62x54R.]]

[[Image:Shot00978582.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Scoped Mosin Nagant.]]

[[Image:Shot0042221.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The middle soldier is holding a scoped Mosin Nagant while the other two holding [[PPSh-41]].]]

[[Image:Shot045042.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Regular Mosin Nagant in idle with incorrect bolt handle .]]

[[Image:Shot0043.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Regular Mosin Nagant in ADS.]]

= Launchers =

== SA-14 Gremlin ==
This updated version of the [[SA-7 Grail]], referred to in-game by its Russian designation of "Strela-3", appears in both single- and multiplayer mode, only capable of firing when locked onto a vehicle. Its appearance in the campaign is brief; Hudson uses a scavenged Strela-3 to shoot down two Mi-8 "Hip" gunships during the attack on Rebirth Island. The Gremlin is, like most weapons in the game, anachronistic, as ''Black Ops'' takes place in 1968, 6 years before its introduction in 1974. A more appropriate choice would have been the Strela-2, which was developed in 1968.

[[Image:800px-SA-14_missile_and_launch_tube.jpg|thumb|500px|none|SA-14 Gremlin launcher and missile 70mm.]]

[[Image:STRELABO.jpg|thumb|300px|none|SA-14 Gremlin in Create-A-Class menu.]]

[[Image:Shot00775.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SA-14 Gremlin in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0087976.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SA-14 Gremlin in ADS.]]

=== "Valkyrie" ===
A unique version of the [[SA-14 Gremlin]], called the "Valkyrie" which has a MCLOS (Manual Command to Line of Sight) system same as the [[BGM-71 TOW]]. It is usable in the single-player missions "Executive Order", wherein Alex Mason uses it to destroy the ''Soyuz II'' rocket in flight, and "Redemption", where it's used to down a pair of Mi-8 helicopters. It also acts as a killstreak in multi-player, awarded after seven kills and costing 4,000 CoD Points.

[[Image:Shot017817.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"Valkyrie" in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0118.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"Valkyrie's" lock-on system.]]

[[Image:Shot0115.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"Valkyrie" on the ground.]]

== RPG-7 ==
[[RPG-7]] is used by Cuban, North Vietnamese, and Russian troops in campaign mode, and is available in multiplayer as well.

[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg|thumb|none|500px|RPG-7 70mm Grenade Launcher]]

[[Image:BORPG2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

[[Image:Shot0001.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

[[Image:BORPG.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

== M202 FLASH ==
The M202 FLASH referred as the "Grim Reaper", can be used in the missions "Victor Charlie" and "Numbers" and also can be seen used by NPC's in the mission "Crash Site". In multiplayer mode, the ''Grim Reaper'' can be obtained from a care package killstreak (awarded after five kills) just like the ''Death Machine''. It has the unrealistic ability to lock on helicopters and planes and has 12 rockets in total (obviously not firing all of them at the same time). The M202's appearance in Black Ops is anachronistic, as it wasn't designed until the late 1970s and was not fielded by the US military until 1978.

[[Image:M202A2 FLASH.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M202A2 FLASH - 66mm.]]

[[Image:Shot0173.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Grim Reaper." Note the writing on the side of the weapon declares it to be "Launcher, Rocket, 66mm, 4-tube, M202A1," putting paid to any claim that the launcher shown in game is in any way supposed to be the earlier XM191.]]

[[Image:Shot0174.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Grim Reaper through its scope.]]

[[Image:Shot0176.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Grim Reaper reloading.]]

== M72 LAW ==

The [[M72 LAW]] appears in the game as a single shot rocket launcher. It is used by Mason to destroy NVA T-55 tanks in Vietnam. In multiplayer the M72 is the first launcher unlocked by the player and has the unrealistic capacity to lock-on to vehicles as opposed to the real life counter-part, which is direct-fire only.

[[Image:M72A2LAW.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M72A2 LAW, 66mm]]

[[Image:CODBO-M72LAW-FPV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M72 LAW as seen in the level "S.O.G."]]

[[Image:CODBO-M72LAW-SCP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Scope view of the M72 LAW as seen in the level "S.O.G."]]

== China Lake grenade launcher ==
The [[China Lake Launcher]] is available in Black Ops, and is the last launcher unlocked. The pump animation has been deliberately made slow for game balance, to the point where pairing the correct Multiplayer perk with this weapon would make reloading after every shot faster than waiting for the pump animation to play. Furthermore, in Multiplayer mode, the tube magazine holds only half its actual capacity (two grenades instead of four). The weapon also cannot be fired without using the iron sight; if a "no-scope" shot is attempted, the player character will bring the launcher into aim-down-sight mode automatically before firing.

[[Image:US M79 pump-action four-shot 40x46mm grenade launcher.jpg|thumb|none|500px|China Lake Grenade Launcher - 40mm]]

[[Image:CODBO-ChinaLake-FPV.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The China Lake as seen in the level "Numbers"]]

[[Image:CODBO-ChinaLake-SCP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The iron sights of the China Lake Launcher in the level "Numbers".]]

== Panzerschreck ==
The [[Panzerschreck]] is used by the German soldiers is the World War II flashback mission "Project Nova" and usable by the player.

[[Image:Tank_h5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Panzerschreck - 88mm.]]

[[Image:Shot0102.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Panzerschreck on the ground.]]

[[Image:Shot0090.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Panzerschreck in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0091.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Panzerschreck in ADS.]]

[[Image:Shot0105.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Panzerschreck in Reloading.]]

= Emplaced Weapons =

== M60 ==

The [[M60 machine gun]] is seen mounted as a door gun on a Huey gunship, and as a mounted weapon throughout the game.

[[Image:M60.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M60 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

[[Image:CODBO-M60-EMP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Emplaced M60 being fired in the level "S.O.G.".]]

== M134 Minigun ==

A Huey gunship is seen armed with a M21 armament system that consists of side mounted 70mm rocket pods and twin [[M134 Minigun]]s.

[[Image:Armament.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M134 Minigun mounted on M21 Armament Subsystem, same as in the films (this also includes huge [[M158 Rocket Launcher]])]]

[[Image:CODBOAR-15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:BlackOps_2010-11-14_17-29-46-73.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Huey gunship lights up the side of a building with its miniguns]]

== Browning M2HB ==

A [[Browning M2HB]] can be seen mounted on every M113 APC in the singleplayer and also on every PBR.

[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Browning M2HB on vehicle mount - .50 BMG.]]

[[Image:CODBO-M2HB.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A M2HB is mounted on the APC.]]

[[Image:Shot0190.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pair of M2HB is mounted on a PBR.]]

== Unknown MANPADS ==

Seen as a part of the SAM Turrets.

[[Image:BLACKOPS-SAM.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The SAM Turret killstreak.]]

== BGM-71 TOW missile ==
The [[BGM-71 TOW]] is seen mounted on a jeep only in the mission "S.O.G." where the player need to destroy the NVA tanks. Unlike real TOW missile, this missile is guided by MCLOS (Manual Command to Line of Sight) instead of SACLOS (Semi Automatic Command to Line of Sight) which would be much simpler. Its appearance in "S.O.G." (set in 1968) is anachronistic: the BGM-71 wasn't introduced into US military service until 1970, and though it saw service in Vietnam, the weapon didn't appear there until 1972.

[[Image:Tow_07.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BGM-71 TOW mounted on M220 tripod 152mm.]]

[[Image:Shot0146.jpg|thumb|none|600px|BGM-71 mounted on a jeep. Note that this is the the Jeep 2011 Wrangler model, which is very anachronistic. During the 60's the US army used the M151 MUTT. Jeep asked Treyarch to advertise their new vehicle through the game; the company even offers a "Black Ops" edition of it.]]

[[Image:Shot0147.jpg|thumb|none|550px|The BGM-71. Notice the "TOW 2B" stencil on the tube; TOW 2B started production in 1991.]]

== Type 92 Heavy Machine Gun ==
The sentry guns in the zombie map "Kino der Toten" appears to be based on [[Type 92 Heavy Machine Gun]]. A double machine gun turret in the level "Victor Charlie" appears to be made of two modified Type 92s. The use icon for that turret reuses the icon for the Type 92 from ''[[Call of Duty: World at War]]''.

[[Image:Japanese_Type_92_Heavy_Machine_Gun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Type 92 Heavy Machine Gun - 7.7x58mm SR.]]

[[Image:Shot0006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Type 92 mounted on an electrical engine.]]

== MG42 ==
The [[MG42]] is appeared only as an emplaced weapon throughout the World War II flashback mission "Project Nova". The first [[MG42]] is seen fired by a Russian soldier and the rest by the Germans, but all are usable by the player.

[[Image:MG42.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MG42 Machine Gun - 7.92x57mm Mauser.]]

[[Image:Shot00050.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MG42 used by a Russian soldier.]]

[[Image:Shot0073.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Same as above...]]

[[Image:Shot0117.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The MG42 is used by the player.]]

== AGS-30 automatic grenade launcher / machine gun ==
A heavy machine gun and a grenade launcher versions of AGS-30 with extended barrels are both attached to the BTR-60 APC that Hudson operates during the mission "Rebirth". Development of AGS-30 started in early 1990s, so it is highly anachronistic.

[[Image:Shot00588.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

[[Image:Shot0059.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

== DShK heavy machine gun ==
The [[DShK heavy machine gun]] is mostly seen mounted on trucks. The player uses one in "Vorkuta" and "WMD", and NPCs operate them in several other missions. It is fitted with an antiaircraft sight.
[[Image:DSHK.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Russian DShKM on tripod - 12.7x108mm.]]

[[Image:Shot0227.jpg|thumb|none|600px|DShK mounted on a truck.]]

[[Image:Shot4444.jpg|thumb|none|600px|DShK used by the player.]]

== 82-PM-37 ==
The [[82-PM-37]] mortar is used by the Russian soldiers in the World War II mission "Project Nova". The player can't use these first-hand, but can instead call in mortar strikes that are launched via these weapons by allies. Calling the mortars is done by throwing smoke grenades near the target. They appear on the ground as stun grenades, though this is simply a result of model reuse.

[[Image:Shot00446.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Russian soldiers using the 82-PM-37 mortar.]]

= Explosives =

== M34 White Phosphorous grenade ==
The [[M34 White Phosphorous grenade]] AKA "Willy Pete" is used in its intended role as a smoke grenade, rather than as an incendiary weapon. It still causes mild damage to enemies who are too close when it explodes, though.

[[Image:M34_2-1-.jpg|thumb|none|300px|[[M34 White Phosphorous grenade]].]]

[[Image:Shot0219.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The green grenade on the belt is the M34.]]

== M67 hand grenade ==
The [[M67 hand grenade]] once again returns as the primary grenade of every faction in-game (not including the World War II mission "Project Nova"). Because ''Black Ops'' takes place from 1961 to 1968, it would be slightly more accurate to see the [[M26 hand grenade]] instead of the M67, as it did not come into common use in the U.S. Military until 1969. Strictly speaking, though, it's not ''exactly'' anachronistic, as it was designed in the 50's. In the zombie maps Kino Der Toten, Five, and Ascention M67 hand grenades are 250 points for 4 grenades.

[[Image:Baseball.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M67 fragmentation grenade.]]

== Model 24 Stielhandgranate ==
The [[Model 24 Stielhandgranate]] is used by the German soldiers in the World War II mission "Project Nova" and usable by the player. Also available in the zombie maps Natch Der Untoten, Verruct, Shi Nu Numa, and Der Riese for 250 points.

[[Image:24-43_grenade.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Model 24 Stielhandgranate.]]

[[Image:Shot110081.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Model 24 is about to be thrown.]]

[[Image:Shot0078.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Model 24 on the ground.]]

== RGD-33 stick grenade ==
The [[RGD-33 stick grenade]] is used by the Russian soldiers in the World War II mission "Project Nova" and usable by the player.

[[Image:Rgd-33russianfrag_mp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RGD-33 stick grenade.]]

[[Image:Shot0079.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RGD-33 is about to be thrown.]]

[[Image:Shot0130.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RGD-33 on the ground.]]

== M18A1 Claymore ==
The [[M18A1 Claymore]] anti-personnel mine is returned once again with no changes been made to it. For 1000 points claymores X2 are able to purchase in the maps Kino Der Toten, Five, Ascention, Call of the Dead, and Moon.

[[Image:M18a1_07.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine.]]

== Spikemore ==

The Spikemore is the [[M18A1 Claymore]] with spikes in the front, so when the zombie goes to it not only does it blow it up it shoots out spikes. Only available in the zombie map Shangri La for 1000 points.

[[Image:M18a1_07.jpg|thumb|none|500px|With spikes in front of it you got a Spikemore.]]

== F-1 hand grenade ==
The [[F-1 hand grenade]] is one of the grenade that aren't usable in-game.

[[Image:Deactivated_f1.jpg|thumb|none|200px|F-1 High-Explosive Fragmentation hand grenade.]]

[[Image:Shot0219.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The grenades under the right shoulder are the F-1's.]]

[[Image:Shot0259.jpg|thumb|none|600px|F-1 hand grenade on dead Russian soldier. An [[RGD-5 hand grenade]] is also visible.]]

== RGD-5 hand grenade ==
The [[RGD-5 hand grenade]] is one of the grenade that aren't usable in-game.

[[Image:Rdg5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RGD-5 High-Explosive Fragmentation hand grenade.]]

[[Image:Shot0259.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RGD-5 hand grenade on a dead Russian soldier. An [[F-1 hand grenade]] is also visible.]]

== Mk 2 hand grenade ==
The [[Mk 2 hand grenade]] is one of the grenades that aren't usable in-game. The Mk 2 can can be seen on Tank Dempsey in the zombie map "Kino Der Toten".

[[Image:MK2_grenade_DoD.jpg|thumb|none|180px|Mk 2 "Pineapple" High-Explosive Fragmentation hand grenade.]]

[[Image:Shot0032301.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mk 2 hand grenade on Tank Dempsey's coat.]]

== M7 Gas Grenade ==

[[Image:M7A3.jpg|thumb|none|175px|M7 CS gas grenade.]]

[[Image:Shot0219.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The black grenades on the waist are the M7.]]

== Semtex Grenade ==

For 2000 points in multiplayer semtex grenade X1 can be a grenade you can use. In zombies semtex grenades X4 are 250 points in the zombie maps Call of the dead, Shangri La, and Moon. When an enemy sticks a Semtex grenade to you it says "Stuck" on your screen.

http://images.wikia.com/callofduty/images/7/7d/Weapon_semtex_large.png

= Attachments =

== M203 grenade launcher ==
The [[M203 grenade launcher]] returns once again, but this time, it actually has the trigger and trigger guard, unlike in ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]'' and ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]''. In the first stages of the game, the M203 lacked the front and rear mountings as can be seen below, but added in the final version. Since ''Black Ops'' takes place from 1961 to 1968, it is anachronistic to see the M203 in use as it entered service only in 1969. A more historically-accurate choice would have been the [[XM148 grenade launcher]].

[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 - 40mm.]]

[[Image:CODBO-M203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Notice the lack of front and rear mountings for the M203.]]

[[Image:Shot0183.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M203 attached to [[Colt Commando]] in reloading.]]

== GP-30 ==
A [[GP-30]] can be seen mounted on the [[AK-47|AK based gun]] and the [[Galil]]; as ever for the series, it is incorrectly called a GP-25 despite having the quadrant sight on the right instead of on the left. Its appearance is anachronistic; the GP-30 didn't enter service until 1989.

[[Image:Gp-30 ak-74.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GP-30 grenade launcher mounted on an [[AK-74]] - 40mm & 5.45x39mm]]
[[image:Shot0047.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GP-30 on AK based weapon.]]
[[image:Shot0046.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GP-30 on AK based weapon.]]
[[image:-Galil_with_GP-25.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GP-30 on Galil.]]

== Knight's Armament Masterkey underbarrel shotgun ==
The [[Knight's Armament Masterkey]] is a purchasable attachment for some Assault Rifles in multiplayer, and is seen in-game mounted on the [[M14]] and [[M16]] respectively. The Masterkey is anachronistic as the Masterkey project was not initiated until the 1980s.

[[Image:KACMasterKey.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Masterkey - 12 gauge.]]

[[Image:CODBO3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Masterkey mounted on [[M16]].]]

==GSN-19 "Kanarejka" ==
The [[GSN-19 grenade launcher]] is a unique attachment for the [[AKS-74U]] compact carbine. First encountered in the single-player mission "Rebirth". Anachronistic, as the launcher was not developed until the 1970s.

[[Image:Bs-1 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GSN-19 grenade launcher 30mm mounted on [[AK-74#AKS-74UB|AKS-74UB]] carbine 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Shot0044.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GSN-19 in idle.]]
[[Image:Shot004897.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GSN-19 in reloading.]]
[[Image:Shot005004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GSN-19 on a table.]]

=See Also=

'''Call of Duty franchise'''

* ''[[Call of Duty]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: United Offensive]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: Finest Hour]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 2]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 2: Big Red One]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 3]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Nintendo DS Version)]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: World at War]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: World at War: Final Fronts]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: World at War (DS)]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3]]''

=Video Links=
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKpLBPBGVIM&feature=channel| Debut Tease Trailer] 
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtRnpC7ddv8| World Premiere Uncut Trailer] 
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijTlKvlX-Io| E3 Vietnam Gameplay trailer] 
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX9qkMsyNdw| E3 short WMD gameplay] 
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IvvmtQ_FVg&feature=youtu.be| Call of Duty: Black Ops Insight]
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4xg2rhLsT0| Call of Duty: Black Ops Multiplayer Teaser]
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MjcEeTmEys| Call of Duty: Black Ops Prestige Edition Unveiling]

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:Zombie]]

Paul

2011-02-24T23:53:44Z

Big les: Colt Python added - confirmed via multiple viewings - awaiting DVD screencap to properly illustrate.

[[Image:Paul poster.jpg|thumb|right|500px|''Paul (2011)'']]
{{Film Title|Paul}}
__TOC__ 

==SIG-Sauer P229==
Special Agent Lorenzo Zoil's ([[Jason Bateman]]) side arm is a [[SIG-Sauer P229]].

[[Image:SIGP229.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P229 - 9x19mm]]

==M4A1 Carbine==
Agent Zoil can be seen with a [[M4A1 Carbine]] in a trailer.

[[Image:ColtM4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M4A1 with Aimpoint M68 sight - 5.56x45mm.]]

==12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun==
A man is seen firing a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]] at Graeme Willy ([[Simon Pegg]]) and Paul (V.O. [[Seth Rogen]]).

[[Image:BaikalSBSShotgun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Modern Baikal Commercial hammerless side by side shotgun - 12 Gauge. Baikal is a Russian manufacturer and a version of this budget shotgun is known as the Remington Spartan.]]

=Colt Python=
The "Big Guy" carries a [[Colt Python]] .357 Magnum revolver with six-inch barrel in "Bright Nickel" or "Ultimate Stainless" finish in a concealed thigh rig.

[[Image:Pythstainless6.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Python with six-inch barrel.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Comedy]]

The Crow

2010-09-08T17:49:33Z

Big les:

File:Flarerev4.jpg

2010-09-08T17:48:41Z

Big les:

File:Flarerev3.jpg

2010-09-08T17:48:02Z

Big les:

File:Flarerev2.jpg

2010-09-08T17:47:29Z

Big les:

File:Flarerev1.jpg

2010-09-08T17:47:03Z

Big les:

Shooter (2007)

2010-08-19T17:54:19Z

Big les: It's a Cooey Model 600 - look at the trigger guard.

'''The following guns were used in the movie ''[[Shooter]]'''''
[[Image:File.jpg|thumb|225px|right|''[[Shooter]]'' (2007)]]

== USMC M40A3 rifle ==

USMC Sniper Bobby Lee Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]) engages several ground targets with his [[Remington 700#M40 Sniper Rifle|M40 sniper rifle]] at the beginning of the film. In the final confrontation on the mountain, at least one of the enemy snipers in the mountain appears to use a [[Remington 700#M40 Sniper Rifle|M40A3 sniper rifle]] with an artic paint job. note that this paint job is not done to military specs.

[[Image:M40a3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M40A3,, 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:S-M40.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]) chambers a round into his [[Remington 700#M40 Sniper Rifle|M40 sniper rifle]]. For some reason, he wears Army UCP instead of Marine MARPAT.]]
[[Image:S-M40-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the mercenary snipers aims a [[Remington 700PSS]] rifle with arctic paint job during the mountain confrontation.]]

==Barrett M107==

In the opening scene in Ethiopia, Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]) is seen firing both a [[Barrett M82|Barrett M107]] and a [[M40_sniper_rifle|M40A3]] sniper rifle. The M107 is distinguishable from a Barrett M82 by the full-length scope rail on top. It is also used by Sanders to assassinate the Archbishop of Ethiopia. Even though this rifle is a semi-automatic in real life, in the movie, the editing makes it appear that Swagger racks the charging handle between shots (like an non blank adapted rifle would require).

:''Posted to IMFDB by Weapons Coordinator '''Ryan Steacy''':''
:''"I was the weapons coordinator on this film. The Barrett used was a real one firing blanks. After multiple strafing runs by the helicopter and the amount of dust and crap floating in the air from all the explosions,the gun did malfunction a few times on multiple takes. Unfortunately the way it was edited together made it seem like he was cocking it after every shot."''

[[Image:M82a1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Barrett M82A1 sniper rifle .50 BMG]]
[[Image:S-M82.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bob Lee Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]) fires a .50 BMG [[Barrett M82|Barrett M107]] at the approaching chopper.]]
[[Image:Shoot 009.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Swagger takes another shot with the Barrett.]]
[[Image:Shoot 012.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here you can see that Barrett has jammed.]]

== DShK ==
One of the targets Swagger snipes in the beginning of the film is seen on a [[DShK heavy machine gun]] mounted on the back of a truck.

[[Image:DSHK.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian DShK 38/46 in 12.7x109mm]]
[[Image:S-DShK.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A gunner gets sniped by Swagger while on a [[DShK heavy machine gun]].]]

== Browning M2 ==

In the Ethiopia sequence at the beginning of the film, several [[Browning M2]]s can be seen mounted on Humvees and enemy vehicles.

[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning M2 .50 BMG]]
[[Image:S-M2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A [[Browning M2]] mounted on a Humvee.]]

== M29 81mm Mortar ==

Several [[M29 81mm Mortar]]s can be seen being used to fire on Swagger's and Fenn's position in the beginning of the film.

[[Image:S-Mortar.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A [[M29 81mm Mortar]] being used by enemy forces.]]

== AK Variant ==

Many of the enemy forces in the beginning of the film can be seen with some kind of [[AK-47|AK-Variant]].

[[Image:S-AK.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An [[AK-47|AK-Variant]] slung on the back of a tango.]]

== M4A1 ==

There are several appearances of [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1]]s in the film, one with an M68 Close Combat Optic and [[M203 grenade launcher]] is seen being used by Donnie Fenn ([[Lane Garrison]]) to fire at a helicopter. They are also used by the mercenaries during the firefight on the ranch, one which is commandeered by Swagger, and one, possibly the same one taken from the ranch shootout, with a red dot optic and suppressor is used by Swagger at the end of the film.The M4 at the end of the film appears to have an EOTech with a 4x Magnifier mounted behind it, and not an Aimpoint Sight, as was on the one that he took from the farm. You can see the rifles optics when Swagger goes under the house with his M1911 out.
[[Image:ColtM4.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Colt M4A1 Carbine - 5.56mm]]
[[Image:S-M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Donnie Fenn fires an [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1]] with an M68 Optic and [[M203 grenade launcher]].(Notice that despite Donnie Fenn being a US Marine, he is wearing an Army UCP uniform.) ]]
[[Image:S-M4-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Swagger fires an [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1]] fitted with a scope]]
[[Image:Shooter0322re6-1-.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|Swagger runs for cover with the M4A1 and a slung Remington 700]]
[[Image:S-M4-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Swagger fires an [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1]] while Memphis uses a [[Remington 700|Remington Model 700]]]]

== Cobray 37mm Launcher ==

Donnie Fenn ([[Lane Garrison]]) has an [[Cobray 37mm Launcher]] on his [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1]] in the beginning of the film which he uses to destroy an enemy vehicle while trying to fight off the helicopter.

[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|200px|M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:S-M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Donnie Fenn fires an [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1]] with an optic scope and [[Cobray 37mm Launcher]]]]
[[Image:S-C-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This shot confirms that the launcher is in fact a Cobray 37mm launcher and not a 40mm grenade launcher.]]

==Cheytac (Cheyenne Tactical) M-200 Intervention==
This hefty rifle fires the extremely ballistics efficient .408 Chey-Tac round. As a result, this rifle, with correctly manufactured ammunition, can be effectively used out to distances of approximately 1.5 miles. The rifle is usually used with a ballistic computer that calculates bullet trajectory based on atmospheric conditions. Although not visible in the still frames provided, during the movie scene a ballistic computer can be seen immediately to Swagger's right. While it is possible, one must realize that the average grouping for even the best rifle (the M-200 being high on that list) at this range will be approximately 20 inches at 2000 yards. Keeping that in mind, the scene was obviously used to showcase Swagger's supernatural ability to snipe.
[[Image:M200.jpg|thumb|none|400px|CheyTac M-200 - .408 CheyTac]]
[[Image:S-Cheyenne.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bob Lee Swagger aims at stew can a mile away with his [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]]]]
[[Image:S-Cheyenne-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bob Lee Swagger shoots at a stew can a mile away with his [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]]]]
[[Image:Shooter032.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Bob Lee Swagger checks his M-200. Left-hand shouldering. Note that, in this picture, you can clearly see that the rifle are made as a right-hand rifle.]]
[[Image:S-Cheyenne-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Swagger's [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]] at the meeting with the Attorney General.]]

== Remington Model 700PSS ==

A tactical police heavy barreled version of the [[Remington 700|Remington Model 700]], the Remington 700PSS was purchased by Bob Lee Swagger in the sporting goods store when he is on the run (having Memphis buy the rifle). Next it is used at the river scene were Swagger is training Special Agent Nick Memphis to shoot under pressure. Later it is used by Memphis to provide cover fire to Swagger as they infiltrate the ranch in Virginia. Finally it is used by Swagger in the snow covered mountain scene. The secret service snipers at the president's speech use these rifles as well.

[[Image:RemingtonPSS700.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Model 700PSS with Harris bipod - .300 Win Mag]]
[[Image:S-Remington.jpg |thumb|none|600px|Nick Memphis training to shoot while ignoring distractions with a [[Remington 700|Remington Model 700PSS]] at the river.]]
[[Image:ShooterRem700blanks-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Swagger ejects a blank, after firing the Remington 700PSS. This is the one and only time Swagger shoots right-handed after being shot, due to the tactical nature of the situation. -Actually Swagger also shoots right-handed with the M40a3.]]
[[Image:S-Remington-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Swagger with a [[Remington 700|Remington Model 700PSS]] with an arctic paint job during the mountain scene.]]

==Glock 17==

Police Officer Stanley Timmons ([[Alan C. Peterson]]) wounds Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]) with a [[Glock#Glock_17|Glock 17]]. After being wounded Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]) then strips a [[Glock#Glock_17|Glock 17]] from young FBI Special Agent Nick Memphis ([[Michael Pena]]).

[[Image:Glock17EarlyModel.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Glock 17 2nd Generation 9x19mm]]
[[Image:S-G17.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Timmons ([[Alan C. Peterson]]) fires his [[Glock#Glock_17|Glock 17]] at Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]).]]
[[Image:S-G17-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Special Agent Nick Memphis ([[Michael Pena]]) draws his [[Glock#Glock_17|Glock 17]] on Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]). Notice the excellent trigger discipline.]]

==Unknown Pistols==

Frank Russo ([[Darrin Massey]]), Ben Davis ([[Adrian Hughes]]), and an unnamed man are each armed with a pistol as they are setting up the "suicide" of Nick Memphis. There are no clear shots of their pistols but the unnamed man's pistol may be a Beretta 92FS. Also interesting to notice is that Bob Lee Swagger can be seen taking Russo's pistol out of his holster while he is talking to Nick, so this could be where he obtained the Beretta 92FS he is seen using later.

[[Image:ShooterPistols1.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Frank Russo ([[Darrin Massey]]) with a pistol in his holster. He is never seen drawing it.]]
[[Image:ShooterPistols2.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The unnamed man holding his pistol on Memphis after Russo is killed.]]
[[Image:ShooterPistols3.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Ben Davis ([[Adrian Hughes]]) falls down dead holding his pistol.]]

== Cooey Model 600 ==

Upon leaving Sarah Fenn's ([[Kate Mara]]) home, Sarah gives Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]) a [[Cooey Model 600]] which he later uses with a homemade silencer to kill Memphis' captors.

[[Image:S-Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Swagger fires a [[Cooey Model 600]] with a homemade silencer.]]

== RPD machine gun ==
During the firefight at the ranch, two gunners in a helicopter can be seen firing [[RPD]] machine guns. This information was confirmed by Ryan Steacy, the weapons coordinator from the film.
[[Image:RPD-Light-Machine-Gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|RPD Light Machine Gun - 7.62x39mm. The version used in the film had the bipod and mount removed from the barrel.]]
[[Image:S-Machine-Gun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A gunner fires an RPD machine gun from a helicopter during the firefight at the ranch.]]
[[Image:S-Machine-gun-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A shot of the machine gun in the DVD extras.]]

== Double Barreled Shotgun ==

When we first see Senator Meachum ([[Ned Beatty]]), he can be seen shooting clays with a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun|Double Barreled Shotgun]].

[[Image:Stevens12GaugeShotgun.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|J. Stevens and Company Side by Side Shotgun (Circa 1878) exposed hammers and designed to fire Black Powder shotgun shells - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:S-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Senator Meachum shooting clays with a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun|Double Barreled Shotgun]].]]

==Colt M1911A1==

Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]) uses the [[M1911A1]] to tie up some loose ends.

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M1911A1 .45 ACP]]
[[Image:S-M1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Swagger sneaks underneath a house with his [[M1911A1]].]]
[[Image:S-M1911A1-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Placing the [[M1911A1]] on Colonel Johnson's body, to imply that he used the gun previously.]]

== Heckler & Koch G36C ==
Colonel Johnson's ([[Danny Glover]]) two bodyguards at the end of the film carry [[Heckler & Koch G36C|Heckler & Koch G36Cs]].

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C 5.56mm]]
[[Image:S-G36C.jpg|thumb|600px|none|One of Colonel Johnson's bodyguards with a [[Heckler & Koch G36C]].]]

== Heckler & Koch G36KE ==

[[Heckler & Koch G36K|Heckler & Koch G36KE]]s are carried by the four guards outside Sandor's ([[Rade Šerbedžija]]) hideout.
[[Image:H&K-G36K.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36K - 5.56mm.]]
[[Image:S-G36K.jpg|thumb|none|400px|One of Sandor's guard with a [[Heckler & Koch G36K|Heckler & Koch G36KE]].]]
[[Image:S-G36K-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|One of Sandor's guard with a [[Heckler & Koch G36K|Heckler & Koch G36KE]] before being shot by Swagger.]]

== Beretta 92FS ==
Used by a police officer on Bobby Lee Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]). Swagger later confronts ex-sniper Michael Sandor ([[Rade Šerbedžija]]) with a [[Beretta 92 pistol series|Beretta 92FS]].

[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Beretta 92FS 9mm]]
[[Image:S-Beretta.jpg|thumb|400px|none|A police officer pulls a [[Beretta 92 pistol series|Beretta 92FS]] on Swagger.]]
[[Image:S-Beretta-2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Swagger comes to confront ex-sniper Michael Sandor with a [[Beretta 92 pistol series|Beretta 92FS]].]]

==Remington 870 Express==

When Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]) goes to Donnie's wife Sara Fenn ([[Kate Mara]]) for help, she can be seen with [[Remington 870|Remington 870 Express]] in the doorway to which Swagger mentions that it's too long to draw quickly before she lets him into the house. A sawed off [[Remington 870|Remington 870 Express]] is seen when Sarah shoots a intruder in her home before being captured by Jack Payne ([[Elias Koteas]]), it is unknown if this is a second shotgun or if Sarah cut the stock and barrel off the one from earlier ''(most likely the former since it is unlikely that she would cut down the stock, sand it smooth, contour it and re-stain and finish it)''. The Short shotgun is seen during the mountain scene when Payne has it taped to his hand and is using to hold Sarah hostage when he taunts Swagger by telling him he has no shot.

[[Image:SawnoffShotgun2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 custom sawed off-12 ga.]]
[[Image:Kate-Mara-Shooter-Rem870.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Kata Mara as Sarah with the sawed off [[Remington 870|Remington 870 Express Shotgun]] in a production still.]]
[[Image:S-Remington-870.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sarah's [[Remington 870|Remington 870 Express]] in the doorway when she first meets Swagger. The line 870 Express is visible as well as the finish appears to be the matte bead blasted type of the Express model.]]
[[Image:S-Remington-870-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sarah kills an intruder with her sawed off [[Remington 870|Remington 870 Express]].]]
[[Image:S-Remington-870-3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Payne ([[Elias Koteas]]) holds Sarah hostage with the [[Remington 870|Remington 870 Express]] taped to his hand.]]

== SIG-Sauer P226 ==

When Payne ([[Elias Koteas]]) captures Sarah ([[Kate Mara]]), he can be seen with a [[SIG-Sauer P226]] fitted with a suppressor.

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|300px|SIG-Sauer P226 9mm]]
[[Image:S-Sig.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Payne captures Sarah with a suppressed [[SIG-Sauer P226]].]]

== Walther P99 ==

After Swagger ([[Mark Wahlberg]]) gets the information he needs out of Sandor ([[Rade Šerbedžija]]), Sandor grabs a [[Walther P99]] from his bookshelf and commits suicide with it.

[[Image:Walther-P99-Pistol.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Walther P99 9mm]]
[[Image:S-Walther.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sandor about to commit suicide with his [[Walther P99]].]]

== Taurus PT92 ==

Swagger takes a nickel plated [[Taurus PT92]] with pearl grips off Senator Meachum ([[Ned Beatty]]) and throw it on the ground near Sarah. Sarah then picks up the handgun and uses it to shoot Payne ([[Elias Koteas]]).
[[Image:TaurusPt92nickelPearl.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Nickel Taurus PT92 with Pearl Grips - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:S-Taurus.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Sarah picks up a bright nickel plated [[Taurus PT92]] with pearl grips.]]
[[Image:S-Taurus-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Sarah fires four shots from the [[Taurus PT92]].]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]

The Beguiled (1971)

2010-06-26T15:13:11Z

Big les: /* Flintlock pistol */

The Beguiled (1971)

2010-06-26T15:11:03Z

Big les: Added 1858 Remington

Sherlock Holmes (2009)

2010-05-18T20:53:27Z

Big les: Have tidied up Adler's revolver, as others have correctly ID'd it.

{{Template:Incomplete}}
[[Image:Sherlock_holmes_poster.jpg|300px|thumb|''Sherlock Holmes'' (2009)]]
'''The following guns, supplied by UK-based movie armourers Bapty and Co. (with stunt versions by Tarver Productions), were used in the 2009 ''Sherlock Holmes'' movie:'''

'''WARNING:''' SPOILERS BELOW!

__TOC__ 
==Webley revolvers==
Holmes' ([[Robert Downey Jr.]]) revolver, though of a style colloquially termed a 'Webley RIC' (after 'Royal Irish Constabulary'), is technically a No.5 'Express' model by the same maker. This was available from the 1880s onwards in either .360 or .38 caliber. Holmes' example has a 4" barrel, an early-style deeply-fluted cylinder (deeper front-to-rear than either the Bulldog or the true RIC), and a contoured frame at the lower edge ahead of the trigger guard. It also features a flattened swivel-type rammer, squared-off butt with lanyard ring, and a nickel finish.
[[Image:Holmeswebleyno5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley No.5 'RIC' - .360 caliber.]]

Several characters in the film employ [[Webley Bulldog]]s. Based upon their short 2.5" barrels and lack of a rammer/ejector, those wielded by Dr. John Watson ([[Jude Law]]) and American Ambassador Standish are most likely to be No.3 'R.I.C.' models in .442 calibre. These weapons fired a black powder cartridge and were gate loaders, unlike the later and more memorable "top break" Webleys.
[[Image:WebleyBulldog.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley Bulldog - .32 caliber.]]
[[Image:Holmes_watson_Webleys.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Holmes and Watson fire with their revolvers...]]
[[Image:Standish_bulldog.jpg|500px|thumb|none|...and Ambassador Standish with his before being set ablaze by "black magic".]]
[[Image:Holmes_Webley.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Holmes and Watson with their Webleys as featured in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:Sherlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In a publicity photo, Watson aims his revolver.]]

==Unknown Shotgun==
In the carriage in the beginning, a police constable is briefy seen loading a shotgun. Based on how he loads the shell into the shotgun, the shotgun might be a [[Winchester Model 1887]]. Which would be a damned unlikely weapons for the LMP, a 14-gauge Greener-Martini Police Gun or generic 12 gauge side-by-side doubles perhaps.

:It is a Winchester 1887. Will cap it when I can [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::Based on only the loading shot of the gun I would agree on the Win. 1887, however when the Metro. Police storm the ceremony hall the profile of the gun appears much too narrow to be that of the '87. So I would somewhat lean towards it being the Greener Police Gun.[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I can't get a good screencap, but whatever it is, it has two Baddeley type bands around a single barrel. I'd agree with some variant of Martini-Greener shotgun.--[[User:Big les|Big les]] 18:50, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

==Belgian pocket revolver==
Irene Adler ([[Rachel McAdams]]) uses a Continental equivalent to the British 'Bulldog' - a Belgian folding-trigger pocket revolver. The maker is unknown, and indeed not often marked on these cheap, readily available self-defence weapons. The screen-used piece is in an unknown caliber, but .32 is likely. An image of the resin/rubber stunt versions used in the movie can be seen at the Tarver Productions website (link below).
[[Image:Adler.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Adler (Rachel McAdams) fires at a Chinese henchman.]]
[[Image:Sherlock1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A publicity photo gives a better angle on the revolver.]]

==C. Sharps Pepperbox==
Professor Moriarty is seen deploying, from a concealed wrist-mounted rig, a (probably reproduction) [[Sharps Pepperbox|C. Sharps patent Model 1A four-barreled pepperbox type pistol]] in .22 rimfire with engraved brass frame
[[Image:Pepperbox.gif|thumb|300px|none|Sharps Pepperbox .22 LR.]]
[[Image:22_pepperbox.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Moriarty aims his Sharps Pepperbox at Sherlock Holmes in disguise.]]

==Pryse revolver==
On the carriage ride to the 'raid' in the opening scene of the movie, Inspector Lestrade can be seen loading a Pryse patent revolver. Based upon the form of the front part of the frame, it is most likely the model of 1877, and may be a Webley-built gun, or any number of licencees and copyists.
[[Image:Lestraderevolver2.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Lestrade snaps shut his Pryse revolver]]

==Enfield Mark II Revolver==
A henchman disarmed by Holmes in the opening scene is armed with an Enfield Mark II .476 caliber revolver with its distinctive lower frame, designed to accommodate a cylinder which slides forward to allow reloading.
[[Image:enfieldmk2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Enfield Mark II - .476 caliber.]]

==Howdah Pistol==
The Home Secretary, Lord Coward has a large-caliber (most likely .577) centerfire [[Howdah Pistol]] by one of the usual makers (e.g. famed shotgun makers Purdey).
[[Image:Howdah.png|thumb|none|250px|Howdah - .577 pistol.]]
[[Image:577_howdah_pistol.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Coward loads his Howdah pistol.]]

==Police Revolvers==
The actual police sidearms of 1891 were the older Webley M.P. Model in .450 Adams at least partially supplemented by the Army issue Webley Mark I (in .442 Enfield).

==Silenced Revolver==
This appears to be a Nagant M1895 Revolver. This would allow the weapon to be effectivly supressed due to the Nagant's gas seal design. This type of weapon may be anachronistic for this film and the prop used appears to be a Soviet manufactured model as a star is visible on the l/h side of the frame.

==External Links==
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-margie/3078649606/ Bulldog Webley at the Holmes Museum]

[http://www.tarverproductions.com/gallery.htm LeStrade's Pryse and Adler's Belgian pocket revolvers seen at the website of the stunt prop supplier for the movie.]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Detective]]
[[Category:British Produced/Filmed]]
[[Category:Crime]]

Sherlock Holmes (2009)

2010-05-18T20:36:02Z

Big les: Added Lestrade's revolver.

{{Template:Incomplete}}
[[Image:Sherlock_holmes_poster.jpg|300px|thumb|''Sherlock Holmes'' (2009)]]
'''The following guns, supplied by UK-based movie armourers Bapty and Co., were used in the 2009 ''Sherlock Holmes'' movie:'''

'''WARNING:''' SPOILERS BELOW!

__TOC__ 
==Webley revolvers==
Holmes' ([[Robert Downey Jr.]]) revolver, though of a style colloquially termed a 'Webley RIC' (after 'Royal Irish Constabulary'), is technically a No.5 'Express' model by the same maker. This was available from the 1880s onwards in either .360 or .38 caliber. Holmes' example has a 4" barrel, an early-style deeply-fluted cylinder (deeper front-to-rear than either the Bulldog or the true RIC), and a contoured frame at the lower edge ahead of the trigger guard. It also features a flattened swivel-type rammer, squared-off butt with lanyard ring, and a nickel finish.
[[Image:Holmeswebleyno5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley No.5 'RIC' - .360 caliber.]]

Several characters in the film employ [[Webley Bulldog]]s. Based upon their short 2.5" barrels and lack of a rammer/ejector, those wielded by Dr. John Watson ([[Jude Law]]) and American Ambassador Standish are most likely to be No.3 'R.I.C.' models in .442 calibre. These weapons fired a black powder cartridge and were gate loaders, unlike the later and more memorable "top break" Webleys.
[[Image:WebleyBulldog.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley Bulldog - .32 caliber.]]
[[Image:Holmes_watson_Webleys.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Holmes and Watson fire with their revolvers...]]
[[Image:Standish_bulldog.jpg|500px|thumb|none|...and Ambassador Standish with his before being set ablaze by "black magic".]]
[[Image:Holmes_Webley.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Holmes and Watson with their Webleys as featured in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:Sherlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In a publicity photo, Watson aims his revolver.]]

==Unknown Shotgun==
In the carriage in the beginning, a police constable is briefy seen loading a shotgun. Based on how he loads the shell into the shotgun, the shotgun might be a [[Winchester Model 1887]]. Which would be a damned unlikely weapons for the LMP, a 14-gauge Greener-Martini Police Gun or generic 12 gauge side-by-side doubles perhaps.

:It is a Winchester 1887. Will cap it when I can [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::Based on only the loading shot of the gun I would agree on the Win. 1887, however when the Metro. Police storm the ceremony hall the profile of the gun appears much too narrow to be that of the '87. So I would somewhat lean towards it being the Greener Police Gun.[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I can't get a good screencap, but whatever it is, it has two Baddeley type bands around a single barrel. I'd agree with some variant of Martini-Greener shotgun.--[[User:Big les|Big les]] 18:50, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

==Unidentified pocket revolver==
Irene Adler ([[Rachel McAdams]]) uses a pocket revolver of relatively large caliber, with open top and spur trigger, as seen in the promotional still below. (''Possibly, given her nationality, a Smith & Wesson?'')

I'm going to go with this is a belgian folding trigger revolver or pinfire revolver. Though there is another folding grip and folding trigger vest type revolver out there it could be but the name is eluding me.~Pawnstar
[[Image:Adler.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Adler (Rachel McAdams) fires at a Chinese henchman.]]
[[Image:Sherlock1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A publicity photo gives a better angle on the revolver.]]

Maybe a [[Smith & Wesson Model 1]]? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:46, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks like an open top revolver to me though..arent model 1's only break action with a top strap?

This pistol appears to be a small calibre (.22) copy of the Webley bulldog. These weapons were made in Belgium and sold very cheapy in Britain during this period. For a better view I located a picture of the props used in the film.
http://www.tarverproductions.com/images/pic006.jpg

==C. Sharps Pepperbox==
Professor Moriarty is seen deploying, from a concealed wrist-mounted rig, a (probably reproduction) [[Sharps Pepperbox|C. Sharps patent Model 1A four-barreled pepperbox type pistol]] in .22 rimfire with engraved brass frame
[[Image:Pepperbox.gif|thumb|300px|none|Sharps Pepperbox .22 LR.]]
[[Image:22_pepperbox.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Moriarty aims his Sharps Pepperbox at Sherlock Holmes in disguise.]]

==Pryse revolver==
On the carriage ride to the 'raid' in the opening scene of the movie, Inspector Lestrade can be seen loading a Pryse patent revolver. Based upon the form of the front part of the frame, it is most likely the model of 1877, and may be a Webley-built gun, or any number of licencees and copyists.
[[Image:Lestraderevolver2.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Lestrade snaps shut his Pryse revolver]]

==Enfield Mark II Revolver==
A henchman disarmed by Holmes in the opening scene is armed with an Enfield Mark II .476 caliber revolver with its distinctive lower frame, designed to accommodate a cylinder which slides forward to allow reloading.
[[Image:enfieldmk2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Enfield Mark II - .476 caliber.]]

==Howdah Pistol==
The Home Secretary, Lord Coward has a large-caliber (most likely .577) centerfire [[Howdah Pistol]] by one of the usual makers (e.g. famed shotgun makers Purdey).
[[Image:Howdah.png|thumb|none|250px|Howdah - .577 pistol.]]
[[Image:577_howdah_pistol.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Coward loads his Howdah pistol.]]

==Police Revolvers==
The actual police sidearms of 1891 were the older Webley M.P. Model in .450 Adams at least partially supplemented by the Army issue Webley Mark I (in .442 Enfield).

==Silenced Revolver==
This appears to be a Nagant M1895 Revolver. This would allow the weapon to be effectivly supressed due to the Nagant's gas seal design. This type of weapon may be anachronistic for this film and the prop used appears to be a Soviet manufactured model as a star is visible on the l/h side of the frame.

==External Links==
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-margie/3078649606/ Bulldog Webley at the Holmes Museum]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Detective]]
[[Category:British Produced/Filmed]]
[[Category:Crime]]

File:Lestraderevolver2.jpg

2010-05-18T20:00:26Z

Big les: Pryse revolver from Sherlock Holmes (2009)

Pryse revolver from Sherlock Holmes (2009)

Sherlock Holmes (2009)

2010-05-11T18:51:47Z

Big les: /* Enfield Mark II Revolver */ corrected image filename

{{Template:Incomplete}}
[[Image:Sherlock_holmes_poster.jpg|300px|thumb|''Sherlock Holmes'' (2009)]]
'''The following guns, supplied by UK-based movie armourers Bapty and Co., were used in the 2009 ''Sherlock Holmes'' movie:'''

'''WARNING:''' SPOILERS BELOW!

__TOC__ 
==Webley revolvers==
Holmes' ([[Robert Downey Jr.]]) revolver, though of a style colloquially termed a 'Webley RIC' (after 'Royal Irish Constabulary'), is technically a No.5 'Express' model by the same maker. This was available from the 1880s onwards in either .360 or .38 caliber. Holmes' example has a 4" barrel, an early-style deeply-fluted cylinder (deeper front-to-rear than either the Bulldog or the true RIC), and a contoured frame at the lower edge ahead of the trigger guard. It also features a flattened swivel-type rammer, squared-off butt with lanyard ring, and a nickel finish.
[[Image:Holmeswebleyno5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley No.5 'RIC' - .360 caliber.]]

Several characters in the film employ [[Webley Bulldog]]s. Based upon their short 2.5" barrels and lack of a rammer/ejector, those wielded by Dr. John Watson ([[Jude Law]]) and American Ambassador Standish are most likely to be No.3 'R.I.C.' models in .442 calibre. These weapons fired a black powder cartridge and were gate loaders, unlike the later and more memorable "top break" Webleys.
[[Image:WebleyBulldog.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley Bulldog - .32 caliber.]]
[[Image:Holmes_watson_Webleys.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Holmes and Watson fire with their revolvers...]]
[[Image:Standish_bulldog.jpg|500px|thumb|none|...and Ambassador Standish with his before being set ablaze by "black magic".]]
[[Image:Holmes_Webley.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Holmes and Watson with their Webleys as featured in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:Sherlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In a publicity photo, Watson aims his revolver.]]

==Unknown Shotgun==
In the carriage in the beginning, a police constable is briefy seen loading a shotgun. Based on how he loads the shell into the shotgun, the shotgun might be a [[Winchester Model 1887]]. Which would be a damned unlikely weapons for the LMP, a 14-gauge Greener-Martini Police Gun or generic 12 gauge side-by-side doubles perhaps.

:It is a Winchester 1887. Will cap it when I can [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::Based on only the loading shot of the gun I would agree on the Win. 1887, however when the Metro. Police storm the ceremony hall the profile of the gun appears much too narrow to be that of the '87. So I would somewhat lean towards it being the Greener Police Gun.[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I can't get a good screencap, but whatever it is, it has two Baddeley type bands around a single barrel. I'd agree with some variant of Martini-Greener shotgun.--[[User:Big les|Big les]] 18:50, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

==Unidentified pocket revolver==
Irene Adler ([[Rachel McAdams]]) uses a pocket revolver of relatively large caliber, with open top and spur trigger, as seen in the promotional still below. (''Possibly, given her nationality, a Smith & Wesson?'')

I'm going to go with this is a belgian folding trigger revolver or pinfire revolver. Though there is another folding grip and folding trigger vest type revolver out there it could be but the name is eluding me.~Pawnstar
[[Image:Adler.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Adler (Rachel McAdams) fires at a Chinese henchman.]]
[[Image:Sherlock1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A publicity photo gives a better angle on the revolver.]]

Maybe a [[Smith & Wesson Model 1]]? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:46, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks like an open top revolver to me though..arent model 1's only break action with a top strap?

==C. Sharps Pepperbox==
Professor Moriarty is seen deploying, from a concealed wrist-mounted rig, a (probably reproduction) [[Sharps Pepperbox|C. Sharps patent Model 1A four-barreled pepperbox type pistol]] in .22 rimfire with engraved brass frame
[[Image:Pepperbox.gif|thumb|300px|none|Sharps Pepperbox .22 LR.]]
[[Image:22_pepperbox.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Moriarty aims his Sharps Pepperbox at Sherlock Holmes in disguise.]]

==Webley Mk 1==
Inspector Lestrade can be seen chambering a possible Webley Mk 1 revolver in the beginning.

==Enfield Mark II Revolver==
A henchman disarmed by Holmes in the opening scene is armed with an Enfield Mark II .476 caliber revolver with its distinctive lower frame, designed to accommodate a cylinder which slides forward to allow reloading.
[[Image:enfieldmk2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Enfield Mark II - .476 caliber.]]

==Howdah Pistol==
The Home Secretary, Lord Coward has a large-caliber (most likely .577) centerfire [[Howdah Pistol]] by one of the usual makers (e.g. famed shotgun makers Purdey).
[[Image:Howdah.png|thumb|none|250px|Howdah - .577 pistol.]]
[[Image:577_howdah_pistol.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Coward loads his Howdah pistol.]]

==Police Revolvers==
The actual police sidearms of 1891 were the older Webley M.P. Model in .450 Adams at least partially supplemented by the Army issue Webley Mark I (in .442 Enfield).

==External Links==
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-margie/3078649606/ Bulldog Webley at the Holmes Museum]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Detective]]
[[Category:British Produced/Filmed]]
[[Category:Crime]]

Sherlock Holmes (2009)

2010-05-11T18:50:55Z

Big les:

{{Template:Incomplete}}
[[Image:Sherlock_holmes_poster.jpg|300px|thumb|''Sherlock Holmes'' (2009)]]
'''The following guns, supplied by UK-based movie armourers Bapty and Co., were used in the 2009 ''Sherlock Holmes'' movie:'''

'''WARNING:''' SPOILERS BELOW!

__TOC__ 
==Webley revolvers==
Holmes' ([[Robert Downey Jr.]]) revolver, though of a style colloquially termed a 'Webley RIC' (after 'Royal Irish Constabulary'), is technically a No.5 'Express' model by the same maker. This was available from the 1880s onwards in either .360 or .38 caliber. Holmes' example has a 4" barrel, an early-style deeply-fluted cylinder (deeper front-to-rear than either the Bulldog or the true RIC), and a contoured frame at the lower edge ahead of the trigger guard. It also features a flattened swivel-type rammer, squared-off butt with lanyard ring, and a nickel finish.
[[Image:Holmeswebleyno5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley No.5 'RIC' - .360 caliber.]]

Several characters in the film employ [[Webley Bulldog]]s. Based upon their short 2.5" barrels and lack of a rammer/ejector, those wielded by Dr. John Watson ([[Jude Law]]) and American Ambassador Standish are most likely to be No.3 'R.I.C.' models in .442 calibre. These weapons fired a black powder cartridge and were gate loaders, unlike the later and more memorable "top break" Webleys.
[[Image:WebleyBulldog.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley Bulldog - .32 caliber.]]
[[Image:Holmes_watson_Webleys.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Holmes and Watson fire with their revolvers...]]
[[Image:Standish_bulldog.jpg|500px|thumb|none|...and Ambassador Standish with his before being set ablaze by "black magic".]]
[[Image:Holmes_Webley.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Holmes and Watson with their Webleys as featured in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:Sherlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In a publicity photo, Watson aims his revolver.]]

==Unknown Shotgun==
In the carriage in the beginning, a police constable is briefy seen loading a shotgun. Based on how he loads the shell into the shotgun, the shotgun might be a [[Winchester Model 1887]]. Which would be a damned unlikely weapons for the LMP, a 14-gauge Greener-Martini Police Gun or generic 12 gauge side-by-side doubles perhaps.

:It is a Winchester 1887. Will cap it when I can [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::Based on only the loading shot of the gun I would agree on the Win. 1887, however when the Metro. Police storm the ceremony hall the profile of the gun appears much too narrow to be that of the '87. So I would somewhat lean towards it being the Greener Police Gun.[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I can't get a good screencap, but whatever it is, it has two Baddeley type bands around a single barrel. I'd agree with some variant of Martini-Greener shotgun.--[[User:Big les|Big les]] 18:50, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

==Unidentified pocket revolver==
Irene Adler ([[Rachel McAdams]]) uses a pocket revolver of relatively large caliber, with open top and spur trigger, as seen in the promotional still below. (''Possibly, given her nationality, a Smith & Wesson?'')

I'm going to go with this is a belgian folding trigger revolver or pinfire revolver. Though there is another folding grip and folding trigger vest type revolver out there it could be but the name is eluding me.~Pawnstar
[[Image:Adler.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Adler (Rachel McAdams) fires at a Chinese henchman.]]
[[Image:Sherlock1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A publicity photo gives a better angle on the revolver.]]

Maybe a [[Smith & Wesson Model 1]]? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:46, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks like an open top revolver to me though..arent model 1's only break action with a top strap?

==C. Sharps Pepperbox==
Professor Moriarty is seen deploying, from a concealed wrist-mounted rig, a (probably reproduction) [[Sharps Pepperbox|C. Sharps patent Model 1A four-barreled pepperbox type pistol]] in .22 rimfire with engraved brass frame
[[Image:Pepperbox.gif|thumb|300px|none|Sharps Pepperbox .22 LR.]]
[[Image:22_pepperbox.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Moriarty aims his Sharps Pepperbox at Sherlock Holmes in disguise.]]

==Webley Mk 1==
Inspector Lestrade can be seen chambering a possible Webley Mk 1 revolver in the beginning.

==Enfield Mark II Revolver==
A henchman disarmed by Holmes in the opening scene is armed with an Enfield Mark II .476 caliber revolver with its distinctive lower frame, designed to accommodate a cylinder which slides forward to allow reloading.
[[Image:enfieldmark2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Enfield Mark II - .476 caliber.]]

==Howdah Pistol==
The Home Secretary, Lord Coward has a large-caliber (most likely .577) centerfire [[Howdah Pistol]] by one of the usual makers (e.g. famed shotgun makers Purdey).
[[Image:Howdah.png|thumb|none|250px|Howdah - .577 pistol.]]
[[Image:577_howdah_pistol.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Coward loads his Howdah pistol.]]

==Police Revolvers==
The actual police sidearms of 1891 were the older Webley M.P. Model in .450 Adams at least partially supplemented by the Army issue Webley Mark I (in .442 Enfield).

==External Links==
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-margie/3078649606/ Bulldog Webley at the Holmes Museum]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Detective]]
[[Category:British Produced/Filmed]]
[[Category:Crime]]

File:Holmeswebleyno5.jpg

2010-05-11T18:21:49Z

Big les: Webley No.5 revolver used by Sherlock Holmes (2009)

Webley No.5 revolver used by Sherlock Holmes (2009)

File:Enfieldmk2.jpg

2010-05-11T18:07:47Z

Big les: Enfield Mark II revolver in .476 from Sherlock Holmes 2009

Enfield Mark II revolver in .476 from Sherlock Holmes 2009

Blaser R93

2010-03-28T23:26:03Z

Big les: /* Film */

[[Image:Blaser93SniperRifleA.jpg|thumb|right|500px|'''Blaser R93 LRS2''' Precision Sniper Rifle - .338 Lapua Magnum. The rifle is usually outfitted with either a Parker Hale or Harris Bipod.]]
[[Image:BlaserR93Receiver.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Closeup of the receiver (left side) of the '''Blaser R93 LRS2''' Precision Sniper Rifle - .338 Lapua Magnum. The factory identification and markings are clearly visible.]]
[[Image:BlaserR93WithHarrisBipod.jpg‎|thumb|right|500px|'''Blaser R93 LRS2''' Precision Sniper Rifle - .338 Lapua Magnum. This rifle has a Harris Bipod mounted.]]
[[Image:R93SemiWeightRifle.jpg|thumb|right|500px|'''Blaser R93 LRS2''' Semi Weight Sporting Rifle - .308 Winchester. The same rifle is offered in a "Sporting" configuration.]]
The '''Blaser R93 LRS2''' is a German made, precision sniper rifle, chambered in 7.62 NATO, .300 Winchester Magnum, .338 Lapua and 6.5x55mm. The rifle is also available in a plain sporting version (a high end hunting rifle) with a traditional looking wooden stock and none of the tactical 'features'. Surprisingly enough, there is a HANDGUN version of the R93. It is an ultra short R93 with a bolt action, short barrel and pistol grip, though all of the calibers fired by the R93 must have murderous recoil in a handgun.

''The '''Blaser R93 Sniper Rifle''' can be seen in the following films, television series, video games, and anime used by the following actors:''

==Film==

* [[Timothy Olyphant]] as Agent 47 in ''[[Hitman]]'' (fitted with Parker-Hale bipod)

* One of Yero's Snipers in ''[[Miami Vice (2006)]]''

* GCPD S.W.A.T. snipers in ''[[The Dark Knight]]''

* [[Hiroyuki Sanada]] as Kenji in ''[[Rush Hour 3]] '' (fitted with Harris Bipod)

* [[Alice Braga]] as Isabelle in ''[[Predators (2010)]]''

==Television==

* [[Michael K. Williams]] as Quincy in ''[[The Kill Point]]'' (fitted with Parker-Hale bipod)

* [[Adam Baldwin]] as Jayne Cobb in ''[[Firefly]]''

* A sniper in ''[[NCIS]]'' (episode: "One Shot, One kill", fitted with Parker-Hale bipod)

* [[Christian Slater]] as Edward Albright in ''[[My Own Worst Enemy]]''

* ''[[The Unit]]''

* ''[[Heroes]]''

* [[James Murray]] as Stephen Hart in ''[[Primeval]]'' Season 2, Episode 1

* Gilboa sniper in ''[[Kings]]'' (episode: "Prosperity", fitted with silencer)

* [[Vinnie Jones]] as Karl Stromberg in ''[[Chuck]]'' Season 3, Episode 2: "Chuck vs the Three Words"

==Anime==

* ''[[Blassreiter]]''

* Ein in ''[[Phantom of Inferno|Phantom: Requiem for Phantom]]''

* Saito in ''[[Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex 2nd gig]]'' (episode: "Beware the Left Eye – POKER FACE")

==Video Games==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Timesplitters: Future Perfect]]||Sniper Rifle||||||2005
|-
|[[Hitman 2: Silent Assassin]]||R93 Sniper||||||2002
|-
|[[Hitman: Contracts]]||R93 Sniper||||||2004
|-
|[[Hitman:Codename 47]]||R93 Sniper Rifle||||||2000
|-
|}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Rifle]]
[[Category:Sniper Rifle]]

Franklyn

2010-03-28T17:05:04Z

Big les: New page: '''The following guns were used in the movie ''Franklyn'' (2008)''' ''Franklyn'' (2008) __TOC__ ==Armsel Protecta shotguns== The ...

'''The following guns were used in the movie ''Franklyn'' (2008)'''
[[Image:FRANKLYN.jpg|300px|thumb|right|''Franklyn'' (2008)]]
__TOC__ 

==Armsel Protecta shotguns==
The Meantime City police are armed with [[Armsel Protecta]] revolving shotguns, carried across the small of the back in a custom rig of some sort. These weapons have had their folding stocks removed, muzzles modified, and decoration applied to their ammunition drums.

[[Image:Striker_shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Policemen with Protectas frogmarch Preest]]

[[Image:Striker_shotgun_2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Policeman points his shotgun at Preest.]]

[[Image:Protecta.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Armsel Protecta.]]

==AK-based Sniper Rifle==
As the masked vigilante, Jonathan Preest's sniper rifle is a fantasy weapon based upon an [[AKM]], AK-74 or AK-100 series receiver (note the two staggered pins behind the change lever) with custom stock, fore-end, scope-mount, scope, suppressor, and a pistol grip that is suggestive of an air or gas bulb...

[[Image:AK_dressup.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Preest assembles his decidely steampunk sniper rifle.]]

[[Image:Ak_dressup_2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Preest poses with his rifle in an promotional still.]]

[[Image:AKMRifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The likely donor weapon for this creation.]]

==Parker-Hale Sniper Rifle==
...whereas in the 'real' world, it's a Parker-Hale 1200 series rifle with short barrel, telescopic sight and no iron sights.

[[Image:Parkerhale1200.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Preest poses with his rifle in an promotional still.]]

[[Image:PH1200example.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A similar PH rifle.]]

The square fore-end on Preest's rifle suggests an earlier (1960s) example. Though described (albeit speculatively) by Tarrant as Preest's 'service weapon', this is not a military weapon but rather a civilian hunting or target rifle (the only Parker-Hale rifle ever adopted by UK forces is the L81 Cadet Target Rifle).

File:FRANKLYN.jpg

2010-03-28T16:56:54Z

Big les:

File:Parkerhale1200.jpg

2010-03-28T15:43:36Z

Big les: Franklyn rifle no2

Franklyn rifle no2

File:Ak dressup 2.jpg

2010-03-28T15:42:35Z

Big les: Franklyn AK promotional still

Franklyn AK promotional still

File:AK dressup.jpg

2010-03-28T15:39:54Z

Big les: Franklyn AK

Franklyn AK

File:Striker shotgun 2.jpg

2010-03-28T15:38:08Z

Big les: Franklyn

Franklyn

File:Striker shotgun.jpg

2010-03-28T15:32:50Z

Big les: Seen in Franklyn

Seen in Franklyn

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

2010-03-27T00:17:25Z

Big les: /* M1928 Thompson */ corrected muzzle 'break' for 'compensator'

'''The following guns were used in the film ''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'':'''

[[Image:TOD.jpg|250px|thumb|right|''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'' (1984)]]

__TOC__ 

==Colt Official Police==

Indiana Jones ([[Harrison Ford]]) loses his [[Colt Official Police]] Revolver at the beginning of the film when Willie
drops it out of the getaway car after they exit club Obi Wan.
Indy's had a 4" barrel and was .38 special. It had been thought that the Temple of Doom gun was the Colt New Service [[M1917 Revolver]] or possibly one of the cut down S&W's from [[Raiders of the Lost Ark]], but new information and research has led to the discovery that it is a 4 inch [[Colt Official Police]] .38.
[[Image:ColtOP4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Colt Official Police 4" Barrel]]
[[Image:IJTD-ColtRevolverIndya.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:TODc1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
The same gun is used by one of Lao Che's gangsters.
[[Image:IJTD-ColtRevolversA.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Colt Official Police being used by gangster]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 10==

Although it was a [[Colt Official Police]] that was filmed in the car, it was most likely a 5 inch [[Smith & Wesson Model 10]] M&P revolver that is filmed dropping out of the car window during the opening get away scene. Originally thought to be a rubber Colt [[M1917 Revolver]], new documentation and photographic evidence shows it to have been a Smith & Wesson Revolver.

[[Image:S&W Model M&P.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Smith & Wesson Model M&P Revolver similar to the one filmed falling out the window of the car.]]

[[Image:TODcarrevolver.png|thumb|none|600px|You can plainly see the cylinder pin clip identifying it as a Smith & Wesson Revolver and not a Colt.]]

A 2" [[Smith & Wesson Model 10]] snub nose can be seen being used by the gangster standing on the right side running board in the photograph below. EMI Elstree in the UK had rented a Colt Official Police .38 w/ 4" barrel (marked for use by Chinese gangster on left hand running board of black pursuit car), and a Smith and Wesson .38 (marked for use by Chinese gangster on right hand running board of black pursuit car).

[[Image:S&WModel10Snub.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Smith & Wesson Model 10 Revolver Snub Nose - .38 Special. Same Frame, but with smaller grips and 2 inch barrel.]]

[[Image:TODgang.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Smith & Wesson Model 10 and Colt Official Police.]]

What looks like a three inch [[Smith & Wesson Model 10]] Military & Police with the lanyard ring removed is used by Indy's partner Wu Han ([[David Yip]]). The hole for the lanyard ring can easily be seen when the revolver drops to the table. The screen used gun also had the older smooth finish grips as found on the [[Smith & Wesson Victory Model]].

[[Image:SW103inch.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Smith & Wesson Model 10 with three inch barrel]]
[[Image:IJTD-WaiterGuna.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:IJTD-WaiterGun2a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Good service here."]]

==Webley Mk III==

A nickel plated [[Webley Mk III]] Commercial Contract is used by Chen ([[Chua Kah Joo]]) to shoot and kill Indy's partner, Wu Han ([[David Yip]]), during the cork popping scene in Club Obi Wan. The Commercial Contract version has no butt swivel.

[[Image:MKIII.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley MK lll Nickel .38 Caliber]]
[[Image:MKIII2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|This is a photo of the actual screen used Webley Mk III Commercial Contract]]
[[Image:IJTD-TableGunA.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Chen holds the Webley MK III under a napkin at the table after shooting Wu Han. Interesting to note that he uses his left hand to shoot the gun.]]
[[Image:IJTD-TopBreak2a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chen pulls his Webley MK III but is 'skewered' by Indy. This time he uses his right hand to draw the gun.]]

==Smith & Wesson 32 Safety Hammerless==

Kao Kan's ([[Ric Young]]) revolver is a [[Smith & Wesson 32 Safety Hammerless]] with a 3 1/2 inch barrel in .32 S&W caliber. It is also known as the S&W New Departure or a S&W "Lemon Squeezer". It is similar to the [[Smith & Wesson 4th Model]] but is hammerless and has a grip safety. Although it looks similar to the [[Webley Mk. III]], you can see that the front sight is different. Another shot shows the screen used gun with white Mother of Pearl grips and not black hard rubber grips as was standard.

[[Image:S&W32p.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson 32 Safety revolver with Mother of Pearl grips]]

[[Image:SW32.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson 32 Safety revolver]]

[[Image:IJTD-TopBreakA.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Smith & Wesson 32 Safety revolver used by Kao Kan]]

==M1928 Thompson==
Lao Che's son Kao Kan ([[Ric Young]]) shoots at Indy in the Club Obi Wan nightclub with a [[Thompson|Thompson M1928]] in the opening sequence. Note that the gun used by Kao Kan has a compensator, the one that is fired out of the car doesn't.
[[Image:M1928.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M1928 "Tommy Gun" .45 ACP]]
[[Image:IJTD-M1928a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:IJTD-M1928or1A.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:IJTD-M1928NoCuttsA.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Lee-Enfield No 4. Mk 1==
The [[Short Magazine Lee-Enfield (SMLE)|Lee-Enfield No 4. Mk 1]] was used by the Indian Army against the Temple of Doom guards at the Bridge scene. This is anachronistic as the film is set in 1935 yet the Lee Enfield No 4 was not issued until 1939 and not officially adopted until 1941. Instead they should be armed with the older SMLE No 1 MkIII.
[[Image:LeeEnfield4Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I - .303 British]]
[[Image:IJTD-No4Mk1LineupA.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:IJTD-No4Mk1HoldFireA.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|]]

One noteworthy scene is of an Royal Indian Army soldier having difficulty with his No 4. Mk 1 rifle. In the sequence the soldiers are cycling the bolts and firing as rapidly as they can. Being blanks there is no recoil, so the soldiers are almost 'short stroking' the cycling of the action. This soldier extracts a spent cartridge by pulling back on his bolt handle, but he does it only about 3/4th of the way before the empty brass breaks loose from the extractor claw, so he tries to load a fresh round out of the magazine '''before''' he has successfully extracted the expended brass. He struggles with two cartridges (one unspent, one spent) both jammed into the chamber, whereas after a few seconds, he pulls back hard on the bolt and both cartridges fly out, thus clearing the weapon. Thus the so called 'jam' seen on screen is purely '''operator error'''.
[[Image:IJTD-No4Mk1JamA.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Soldier on the left suffers a failure to extract, causing two cartridges to get stuck in the chamber.]]

==Mauser Gewehr 1898==
A [[Mauser Gewehr 1898]] rifle was seen slung over the shoulder of a Chinese soldier at Shanghai airport.
[[Image:Mauser g98.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Mauser Gewehr 1898 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==Martini Henry==
The [[Martini-Henry Rifle Series|Martini Henry]] was used by the Temple of Doom Thuggees during the Mine Cart chase.

[[Image:Martini-HenryMarkIV (1888-1889).jpg|thumb|none|500px|Martini-Henry Mk. IV (1888-1889) .577-.450 caliber.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Adventure Movie]]
[[Category:Indiana Jones]]
[[Category:Steven Spielberg]]

Caprica

2010-03-23T23:15:05Z

Big les: /* Intratec TEC-9 */ Corrected weapon type.

Caprica is a spin-off/prequel to the earlier series [[Battlestar Galactica]], set 58 years before the start of that series.

== Handguns ==

=== Heckler & Koch USP ===

A bi-tone [[Heckler & Koch USP]] was used by Daniel Graystone and the Zoe Avatar in the U-87 Cylon body in Season One, Episode Seven, "Ghosts in the Machine."
[[Image:USP45SS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Heckler & Koch USP - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Caprica Springfield Armory XD.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Daniel Graystone holding the Heckler & Koch USP.]]
[[Image:Caprica Springfield Armory XD Daniel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Daniel holding the Heckler & Koch USP.]]
[[Image:Caprica Springfield Armory XS Daniel Zoe.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Daniel handing the Heckler & Koch USP to Zoe.]]
[[Image:Caprica Springfield Armory Zoe.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Zoe holding the Heckler & Koch USP.]]
[[Image:Caprica Springfield Armory XD Zoe Shooting.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Zoe shooting the Heckler & Koch USP.]]

=== Walther P38 ===
In Season One, Episode Seven, "Ghosts in the Machine", Heracles is seen carrying a Walther P-38 into New Cap City. Joseph Adama calls it a "small gun."

[[Image:Caprica Walther P-38.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Walther P-38 carried by Heracles in New Cap City.]]
[[Image:Caprica Walther P-38 slide.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Heracles preparing to pull back the slide on the Walther P-38.]]

=== Colt Python ===

A pair of Colt Python revolvers (.357 Magnum) are carried by Joseph Adama and Emmanuelle into the burlesque club in Season One, Episode Seven, "Ghosts in the Machine."

[[Image:Caprica Magnums.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pair of Colt Python revolvers carried by Joseph Adama and Emmanuelle into the burlesque club.]]

== Submachine Guns ==

=== MP-40 ===

[[Image:Caprica MP-40.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An MP-40 inside the arms locker of the burlesque club.]]
[[Image:Caprica MP-40 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Caprica MP-40 3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

=== Kimel AP-9 ===
[[image:AP9-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|250px|Kimel AP-9 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Caprica burlesque club SMG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Kimel AP-9 is carried by Joseph Adama into the burlesque club.]]

The [[AP-9]] is often mistaken for the Intratec Tec-9 and its clones (and uses the same magazine). The angled magazine well and sighting system are the giveaways here.

=== KGP-9 ===

A Hungarian KGP-9 (9x19 Parabellum) being repeatedly stripped and re-assembled by the Zoe Avatar in the U-87 Cylon body in Season One, Episode Seven, "Ghosts in the Machine." It has been dressed up by the show's armorers to resemble a weapon consistent with the Cylon design aesthetic.

[[Image:KGP-9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Hungarian KGP-9 submachine gun (9x19 Parabellum).]]
[[Image:Caprica unknown carbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The KGP-9 in the hands of the U-87 robot.]]
[[Image:Caprica unknown assault rifle components.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The components of the KGP-9 laid out on a table.]]
[[Image:Caprica unknown assault rifle magazine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The magazine being removed from the weapon.]]
[[Image:Caprica unknown assault rifle spring.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The return spring of the weapon being removed.]]
[[Image:Caprica unknown assault rifle receiver.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The receiver cover and sights of the weapon.]]

== Assault Rifles ==

=== SA-80 ===
An SA-80 can be seen in the hands of a Caprican police officer at the memorial to the maglev bombing in the Season One, Episode One, "Rebirth." The SA-80 was previously shown in ''[[Battlestar Galactica]]'' to be the standard-issue assault rifle of the Colonial Armed Forces with SA-80s being seen in the hands of a Colonial Fleet honour guard at Zak Adama's funeral in Season 1 and in the hands of Samuel Anders' resistance fighters on Caprica in Season 2.
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|L85A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Caprica SA-80.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An SA-80 carried by a Caprican police officer.]]

== Shotguns ==

=== Unknown Sawed-Off Shotgun ===
[[Image:Caprica Sawed-Off shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A sawed-off shotgun carried by a junkie in the drug den in New Cap City.]]

=== Unknown Shotgun ===
[[Image:Caprica burlesque club shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A shotgun being placed into the arms locker of the burlesque club.]]

[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]

The Alamo (2004)

2010-03-07T14:28:00Z

Big les: /* Flintlock Pistol */

[[Image:Alamo ver2.jpg|thumb|right|300px|The Alamo (2004)]]

The Alamo was the 2004 film based on the historical 13 day siege of the Alamo Mission in what is modern day San Antonio, Texas. The battle of 1836 was a pivotal one in the Texas Revolution (in which Texas declared itself an independent Republic and kicked out governmental influences from Mexico). Despite the fact the the Mexican Army was fighting the Republic of Texas, most people confuse this campaign with the larger Mexican American War of the 1840s.

'''The following firearms were used in the film:'''

== [[Kentucky Flintlock Rifle]] ==
Davy Crockett ([[Billy Bob Thornton]]) most notably uses a Kentucky/Pennsylvania long rifle during his attempted shot at Santa Anna ([[Emilio Echevarría]]) but he misses due to the wind. Though many people think that Kentucky long rifles were the norm, nearly all of the defenders carried a mish mash of whatever weapon was available.
[[Image:Kentuckyrifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Kentucky Rifle - .50, .45, or .36 caliber.]]
[[Image:Alamo-ThorntonA.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Davy Crockett ([[Billy Bob Thornton]]) rests with his Kentucky rifle.]]

== Model 1766 French Charleville Infantry Musket==
This surplus French gun was commonly used by the defenders of the Alamo. The Charleville went through a series of modifications since it's first inception and all variants found their way to America somehow, however, it is difficult to see which year pattern is being used in the film, since there are no closeups of the pan & frizzen side of the gun. For the sake of historical accuracy, the Model 1766 French Charleville Infantry Musket was the most common Charleville seen at the siege.
[[Image:Charlie.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Charleville Musket - 69 caliber]]
[[Image:Alamo-LongGunA.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|An Alamo Defender fires a Charleville 1766.]]
[[Image:Alamo-FlintlockA.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Micajah Autry ([[Kevin Page]]) fires his Charleville 1766.]]

== Flintlock Pistol ==
Gen. Sam Houston ([[Dennis Quaid]]) and Lt. Col. William B. Travis ([[Patrick Wilson]]) keep Flintlock pistols as their sidearms. Col. James Bowie ([[Jason Patric]]) is given two flintlock pistols when he is too sick and stuck in bed.
[[Image:sparroflintlock.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Flintlock Pistol]]

== Double Barreled Flintlock Shotgun ==
Lt. Col. William B. Travis ([[Patrick Wilson]]) and Col. James Bowie ([[Jason Patric]]) each carry Double Barreled Flintlock shotguns throughout the film. They are mostly seen strapped on their backs but Travis is seen most clearly when he shoots a charging Mexican soldier coming at Crockett ([[Billy Bob Thornton]]). Jim Bowie assembles his shotgun during the final battle of the Alamo, he uses it to shoot the Mexican soldiers coming in before they bayonet him.
[[Image:Alamo-double-barreledA.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|Lt. Col. Travis ([[Patrick Wilson]]) fires his Double barreled flintlock shotgun.]]

== Brown Bess Flintlock Musket ==
The Mexican Army under the command of General Santa Anna use Brown Bess smoothbore .75 caliber muskets, which was the standard issue long gun of the Mexican Army of the time.
[[Image:BrownBessInfantry-Musket-1722-1768.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Brown Bess Flintlock Musket - .78 caliber.]]

==British Baker .61 Cal Rifle==
[[Image:Alamo-Flintlock02A.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Cavalry Musketoon==
Short barreled muskets aka musketoons were seen carried by cavalry soldiers, most evidently by Sam Houston's horsemen.

==1795 Springfield Flintlock Infantry Musket==
[[Image:Flintlockmusket.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Model 1795]]
Seen are some vintage 1795 Springfield muskets (from the War of 1812) used as secondary weapons.

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:Western Movie]]

How the West Was Won

2010-03-07T14:27:04Z

Big les: /* Flintlock Pistol */

== Kentucky rifle ==

Alec Harvey keeps a Kentucky flintlock rifle which his son Colin grabs when Linus Rawlings ([[Jimmy Stewart]]) first arrives. Some of Col. Jeb Hawkins ([[Walter Brennan]]) men uses Flintlock rifles when they battle the Prescotts. Men in the Wagons during the Indian attack fire Kentucky rifles at the Cheyennes. The Indian that shoot at Zeb Rawlings ([[George Peppard]]) uses a Kentucky Rifle also.
[[Image:Kentuckyrifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Kentucky Rifle - .50, .45, or .36 caliber.]]

==[[Springfield 1861]]==

All of the Civil War soldiers including Zeb Rawlings ([[George Peppard]]) are seen using Springfield 1861 flintlock rifles. Zebs was broken in the movie and was only able to have his bayonet which he uses to kill the reb ([[Russ Tamblyn]]) when he tries to shoot Generals Grant ([[Harry Morgan]]) and Sherman ([[John Wayne]]).
[[Image:Springfield1861.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Springfield 1861 - .58 caliber minie ball.]]

== Colt 1851 Navy ==

The Reb ([[Russ Tamblyn]]) is seen with a Colt 1851 Navy which he took off a dead officer. He uses it to try and shoot Generals Grant ([[Harry Morgan]]) and Sherman ([[John Wayne]]) before being stabbed by Zeb Rawlings ([[George Peppard]]).
[[Image:1851Navy.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt 1851 Navy .36 caliber.]]

== Colt Single Action Army ==

During the Wild West segment of the film all of Charlie Gant ([[Eli Wallach]]) men uses Single Action Army including Gant himself. [[Harry Dean Stanton]] plays one of Gants men and he too uses a Single Action Army. Zeb Rawlings ([[George Peppard]]) uses a Single Action Army to shoot Charlie Gant ([[Eli Wallach]]). Marshall Lou Ramsey ([[Lee J. Cobb]]) also has a Single Action Army holstered.
[[Image:ColtSAA475barrel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Colt Single Action Army]] w/ 4.75" barrel, case colored and blued, referred to as "Quick-Draw" or "Civilian" model. ]]

==[[Flintlock Pistol]]==

Col. Jeb Hawkins ([[Walter Brennan]]) uses a Flintlock pistol as his main sidearm which he uses to hold up the Prescotts and accidentally shoot his own man. One of Hawkinses own men is seen firing a Flintlock pistol at one of Alec Harveys sons before Hawkins shoots him by mistake.
[[Image:sparroflintlock.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Flintlock pistol.]]

==[[Winchester Model 1873]]==

Marshall Lou Ramsey ([[Lee J. Cobb]]), Zeb Rawlings ([[George Peppard]]) and all of the Marshalls men are seen using Winchester Model 1873 rifles during the train fight. Lou Ramsey uses one to shoot the last of Charlie Gants ([[Eli Wallach]]) men and later shoot the ropes holding a generator so that Zeb can get a clear shot.
[[Image:Winchester1873.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Winchester Model 1873 carbine - 1st generation rifle - 44-40 Cal.]]

== Henry 1860 ==

Mike King ([[Richard Widmark]]) passes out Henry 1860 rifles to all of his men and Zeb Rawlings ([[George Peppard]]) when the Indians attack.
[[Image:Henry.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Henry 1860 brass-frame - .44 Rimfire (RF).]]

== Double Barreled Shotgun ==

Zeb Rawlings ([[George Peppard]]) is seen firing a Double Barreled Shotgun at outlaws when he is an acting Marshall in the Wild West.
[[Image:Stevens12GaugeShotgun.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|J. Stevens and Company Side by Side Shotgun (Circa 1878) exposed hammers and designed to fire Black Powder shotgun shells - 12 Gauge]]

== Unknown Derringer ==

Cleve Van Valen ([[Gregory Peck]]) is seen gambling an Unknown Derringer in the wagons before the Cheyenne attack. He later uses it to shoot a Cheyenne off his horse.

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Western Movie]]

Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman

2010-03-07T14:26:30Z

Big les: /* Flintlock Pistol */

Van Helsing

2010-03-07T14:14:17Z

Big les: /* Flintlock Pistol */

'''The following guns were used in the film ''[[Van Helsing]]'':'''
[[Image:VanHelsingDVDcover.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Van Helsing (2004)'']]

==[[(Van Helsing) - Custom Revolvers|Custom Revolvers]]==
Gabriel Van Helsing ([[Hugh Jackman]]) uses two custom revolvers as his sidearms in the film. They appear to be completely fictional but bear resemblance to a Webley-Fosbery .455 "automatic" revolver. If anyone who worked on the film has information on these props, please share it. Like many props, it is assumed they are plastic shells covering [[Taurus Model 85]] revolvers.
[[Image:VHrevolvers-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires his Revolvers at Mr. Hyde in the church.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note how they featture zig-zags in the cylinder and a tip-open hinge like a Webley-Fosebery.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires his Revolvers at Mr. Hyde.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|When the townspeople try to dissarm Van Helsing, he puts his hands on his revolver and tells them they can try. Note the ornate cross grips.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing loads his revolvers with silver bullets when hunting down the Wolfman in the town. It is assumed that this is another prop built to load and not fire. It is confusing why it is loaded via loading gate when the gun has a tip-open action.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing goes to draw his revolvers when he see the Frankenstein monster in his lair.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna Valerious ([[Kate Beckinsale]]) uses one of Van Helsing's revolvers to shoot at the Wolfman when he finds the Frankenstein monster's lair.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing shoots the Wolfman while jumping through the air.]]

==Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3==
Velkan Valerious ([[Will Kemp]]) uses a nickel [[Smith & Wesson Schofield|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3]] loaded with silver bullets during the scene where he and his men try to capture the Wolfman.
[[Image:Schofield.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3 - .45 Schofield.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan fires his Smith & Wesson Schofield at Wolfman when he is trapped in a cage.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan's Schofield gets knocked out of his hand and falls to the ground.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan shoots the Wolfman with his Schofield before he is bitten and knocked off the cliff.]]
===Special===
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-4special.jpg|thumb|none|600px|When director Stephen Sommers tries to show the crew how the Schofield should fall on the ground, the prop breaks in half.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-5special.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Some day when I do a big budget movie, we won't have problems like this."]]

==Springfield 1873 Trapdoor==
Velkan's men firing at the Wolfman use [[Trapdoor Springfield Rifle|Springfield 1873 Trapdoor]] rifles but since the rounds aren't silver, the guns have no effect.
[[Image:TrapdoorSpringfield18873.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Springfield 1873 Trapdoor - .45-70.]]
[[Image:VHSpringfieldTrapdoor-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan's men fire their Springfield 1873 Trapdoor rifles at Wolfman. God knows why they chose single shot rifles instead of repeaters for this task.]]

==Colt Gatling Gun==
One of the men in the invention room under the church (which is strangely similair to the gadget room in the 007 films) is seen testing a [[Gatling Gun|Colt Gatling Gun]] with a fiction "O" drum magazine. Firing a gun inside is not smart, especially in a room with all the other workers.
[[Image:Gatling gun 1865.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Gatling Gun 1865.]]
[[Image:VHGatlinggun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An inventor in the church fires a Gatling gun with a fictional drum magazine.]]

==Colt variant of Browning M1917==
A Colt version of the [[Browning M1917]] water-cooled machine gun is seen in the church, hence the spade grips. This gun is anachronistic for 1888 by a lot.
[[Image:ColtM1917watercooled.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt version of the Browning M1917 water-cooled machine gun - .30-06.]]
[[Image:VHwatercooled.jpg|thumb|none|600px|To the left of the Gatling gun is the Colt version of the Browning M1917.]]

==Remington 870 (mocked up)==
Van Helsing ([[Hugh Jackman]]) uses a [[Remington 870]] sawed-off and made to look like more of a wheel-lock pistol based on the shape of the stock. The gun is dressed up to look more "gothic" for the film by adding little insignias on it as well. Pump action shotguns had not been invented yet in 1888 except for the older Spencer 1882 shotgun but it can be assumed the gun is meant to be a complete invention of the church.
[[Image:SawnoffShotgun2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sawed-off Remington 870 - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing's shotgun is seen on the table as Carl ([[David Wenham]]) loads his bag with gear. Note the wheel-lock pistol style of the stock.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Carl loads the shotgun in his bag.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing searches for Dracula ([[Richard Roxburgh]]) in Frankenstein's castle with his shotgun in hand.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing inspects one of Dracula's eggs.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing readies his shotgun as the eggs begin to hatch.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing shoots Dracula's offspring with his shotgun.]]

==[[(Van Helsing) - Gas Operated Automatic Crossbow|Gas Operated Automatic Crossbow]]==
Carl ([[David Wenham]]) gives Van Helsing ([[Hugh Jackman]]) a custom built Crossbow which automatically fires bolts from a rotating drum. The bow is said to be gas operated, but since it isn't a gun, the tank fitted in the stock is assumed to be the "gas", like a C02 tank. Van Helsing is seen using the Crossbow to take on Dracula's ([[Richard Roxburgh]]) brides Aleera ([[Elena Anaya]]), Marishka ([[Josie Maran]]), and Verona ([[Silvia Colloca]]) when they try to attack Anna Valerious ([[Kate Beckinsale]]) during the day, using the clouds for cover. After dunking the bow in holy water at the church, he uses the bow to successfully take out Marishka.
[[Image:VHcrossbow-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Carl gives Van Helsing the Crossbow.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires his Crossbow at the brides when they first attack.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing with the Crossbow.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing switches the Crossbow's selector switch to semi-auto.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires a single bolt which pierces Verona's leg as she carries Anna. Even a gas-powered crossbow would have drop at such a range yet no compensation for drop is show.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing's Crossbow lay out of reach as he and Marishka stand off.]]

==Flintlock Pistol==
When Anna searches the weapon room for an intruder, she picks up a [[Flintlock Pistol]] to defend herself. When she is surprised by the Wolfman, she fires a shot in his face and runs.
[[Image:sparroflintlock.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Flintlock pistol]]
[[Image:VHBLunderbuss-Flintlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Flintlcok pistol is seen to the left on the table when Anna loads up.]]
[[Image:VHFlintlockpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna picks up a Flintlock pistol and cocks the hammer. Director Steven Sommers said she was cocking the gun too lightly and that he "needs a bigger cock." Kate Beckinsale replied "Don't we all."]]
[[Image:VHFlintlockpistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna searches the armory for the Wolfman.]]
[[Image:VHFlintlockpistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna shoots the Wolfman with the Flintlock pistol.]]

==Boot Flintlock Pistol==
Anna is seen picking up an Over and Under Flintlock Boot pistol when she loads up.
[[Image:VHBootflintlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna picks up an Over and Under Flintlock Boot pistol.]]

==Blunderbuss Flintlock Pistol==
A [[Blunderbuss]] Flintlock Pistol designed to fire scatter shot out of the cone shaped barrel is seen on a table when Anna loads up.
[[Image:VHBLunderbuss-Flintlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Blunderbuss Pistol is seen on the table to the right.]]

==Matchlock Rifle==
Several [[Matchlock Rifle]]s are seen in the weapons room.
[[Image:VHMatchlock-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several Matchlock rifles are seen in the glass case to the left.]]
[[Image:VHMatchlock-2Flintlockrifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Matchlock rifles are seen in the glass case.]]

==Flintlock Rifle==
Several [[Flintlock Rifle]]s are seen in the glass case under the Matchlock rifles.
[[Image:Flintlockmusket.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Flintlock Musket]]
[[Image:VHMatchlock-2Flintlockrifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several Flintlock rifles are seen in the bottom glass case.]]

==Percussion Pistol==
Anna puts a [[Percussion Pistol]] into a long scabbard-like holster when she loads up.
[[Image:VHpercussionpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna loads a Percussion Pistol into her holster.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Horror]]

Van Helsing

2010-03-07T14:13:33Z

Big les: /* Flintlock Pistol */

'''The following guns were used in the film ''[[Van Helsing]]'':'''
[[Image:VanHelsingDVDcover.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Van Helsing (2004)'']]

==[[(Van Helsing) - Custom Revolvers|Custom Revolvers]]==
Gabriel Van Helsing ([[Hugh Jackman]]) uses two custom revolvers as his sidearms in the film. They appear to be completely fictional but bear resemblance to a Webley-Fosbery .455 "automatic" revolver. If anyone who worked on the film has information on these props, please share it. Like many props, it is assumed they are plastic shells covering [[Taurus Model 85]] revolvers.
[[Image:VHrevolvers-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires his Revolvers at Mr. Hyde in the church.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note how they featture zig-zags in the cylinder and a tip-open hinge like a Webley-Fosebery.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires his Revolvers at Mr. Hyde.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|When the townspeople try to dissarm Van Helsing, he puts his hands on his revolver and tells them they can try. Note the ornate cross grips.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing loads his revolvers with silver bullets when hunting down the Wolfman in the town. It is assumed that this is another prop built to load and not fire. It is confusing why it is loaded via loading gate when the gun has a tip-open action.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing goes to draw his revolvers when he see the Frankenstein monster in his lair.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna Valerious ([[Kate Beckinsale]]) uses one of Van Helsing's revolvers to shoot at the Wolfman when he finds the Frankenstein monster's lair.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing shoots the Wolfman while jumping through the air.]]

==Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3==
Velkan Valerious ([[Will Kemp]]) uses a nickel [[Smith & Wesson Schofield|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3]] loaded with silver bullets during the scene where he and his men try to capture the Wolfman.
[[Image:Schofield.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3 - .45 Schofield.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan fires his Smith & Wesson Schofield at Wolfman when he is trapped in a cage.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan's Schofield gets knocked out of his hand and falls to the ground.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan shoots the Wolfman with his Schofield before he is bitten and knocked off the cliff.]]
===Special===
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-4special.jpg|thumb|none|600px|When director Stephen Sommers tries to show the crew how the Schofield should fall on the ground, the prop breaks in half.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-5special.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Some day when I do a big budget movie, we won't have problems like this."]]

==Springfield 1873 Trapdoor==
Velkan's men firing at the Wolfman use [[Trapdoor Springfield Rifle|Springfield 1873 Trapdoor]] rifles but since the rounds aren't silver, the guns have no effect.
[[Image:TrapdoorSpringfield18873.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Springfield 1873 Trapdoor - .45-70.]]
[[Image:VHSpringfieldTrapdoor-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan's men fire their Springfield 1873 Trapdoor rifles at Wolfman. God knows why they chose single shot rifles instead of repeaters for this task.]]

==Colt Gatling Gun==
One of the men in the invention room under the church (which is strangely similair to the gadget room in the 007 films) is seen testing a [[Gatling Gun|Colt Gatling Gun]] with a fiction "O" drum magazine. Firing a gun inside is not smart, especially in a room with all the other workers.
[[Image:Gatling gun 1865.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Gatling Gun 1865.]]
[[Image:VHGatlinggun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An inventor in the church fires a Gatling gun with a fictional drum magazine.]]

==Colt variant of Browning M1917==
A Colt version of the [[Browning M1917]] water-cooled machine gun is seen in the church, hence the spade grips. This gun is anachronistic for 1888 by a lot.
[[Image:ColtM1917watercooled.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt version of the Browning M1917 water-cooled machine gun - .30-06.]]
[[Image:VHwatercooled.jpg|thumb|none|600px|To the left of the Gatling gun is the Colt version of the Browning M1917.]]

==Remington 870 (mocked up)==
Van Helsing ([[Hugh Jackman]]) uses a [[Remington 870]] sawed-off and made to look like more of a wheel-lock pistol based on the shape of the stock. The gun is dressed up to look more "gothic" for the film by adding little insignias on it as well. Pump action shotguns had not been invented yet in 1888 except for the older Spencer 1882 shotgun but it can be assumed the gun is meant to be a complete invention of the church.
[[Image:SawnoffShotgun2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sawed-off Remington 870 - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing's shotgun is seen on the table as Carl ([[David Wenham]]) loads his bag with gear. Note the wheel-lock pistol style of the stock.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Carl loads the shotgun in his bag.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing searches for Dracula ([[Richard Roxburgh]]) in Frankenstein's castle with his shotgun in hand.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing inspects one of Dracula's eggs.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing readies his shotgun as the eggs begin to hatch.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing shoots Dracula's offspring with his shotgun.]]

==[[(Van Helsing) - Gas Operated Automatic Crossbow|Gas Operated Automatic Crossbow]]==
Carl ([[David Wenham]]) gives Van Helsing ([[Hugh Jackman]]) a custom built Crossbow which automatically fires bolts from a rotating drum. The bow is said to be gas operated, but since it isn't a gun, the tank fitted in the stock is assumed to be the "gas", like a C02 tank. Van Helsing is seen using the Crossbow to take on Dracula's ([[Richard Roxburgh]]) brides Aleera ([[Elena Anaya]]), Marishka ([[Josie Maran]]), and Verona ([[Silvia Colloca]]) when they try to attack Anna Valerious ([[Kate Beckinsale]]) during the day, using the clouds for cover. After dunking the bow in holy water at the church, he uses the bow to successfully take out Marishka.
[[Image:VHcrossbow-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Carl gives Van Helsing the Crossbow.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires his Crossbow at the brides when they first attack.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing with the Crossbow.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing switches the Crossbow's selector switch to semi-auto.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires a single bolt which pierces Verona's leg as she carries Anna. Even a gas-powered crossbow would have drop at such a range yet no compensation for drop is show.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing's Crossbow lay out of reach as he and Marishka stand off.]]

==Flintlock Pistol==
When Anna searches the weapon room for an intruder, she picks up a [[Flintlock Pistol]] to defend herself. When she is surprised by the Wolfman, she fires a shot in his face and runs.
[[Image:sparropistol.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Flintlock pistol]]
[[Image:VHBLunderbuss-Flintlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Flintlcok pistol is seen to the left on the table when Anna loads up.]]
[[Image:VHFlintlockpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna picks up a Flintlock pistol and cocks the hammer. Director Steven Sommers said she was cocking the gun too lightly and that he "needs a bigger cock." Kate Beckinsale replied "Don't we all."]]
[[Image:VHFlintlockpistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna searches the armory for the Wolfman.]]
[[Image:VHFlintlockpistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna shoots the Wolfman with the Flintlock pistol.]]

==Boot Flintlock Pistol==
Anna is seen picking up an Over and Under Flintlock Boot pistol when she loads up.
[[Image:VHBootflintlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna picks up an Over and Under Flintlock Boot pistol.]]

==Blunderbuss Flintlock Pistol==
A [[Blunderbuss]] Flintlock Pistol designed to fire scatter shot out of the cone shaped barrel is seen on a table when Anna loads up.
[[Image:VHBLunderbuss-Flintlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Blunderbuss Pistol is seen on the table to the right.]]

==Matchlock Rifle==
Several [[Matchlock Rifle]]s are seen in the weapons room.
[[Image:VHMatchlock-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several Matchlock rifles are seen in the glass case to the left.]]
[[Image:VHMatchlock-2Flintlockrifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Matchlock rifles are seen in the glass case.]]

==Flintlock Rifle==
Several [[Flintlock Rifle]]s are seen in the glass case under the Matchlock rifles.
[[Image:Flintlockmusket.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Flintlock Musket]]
[[Image:VHMatchlock-2Flintlockrifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several Flintlock rifles are seen in the bottom glass case.]]

==Percussion Pistol==
Anna puts a [[Percussion Pistol]] into a long scabbard-like holster when she loads up.
[[Image:VHpercussionpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna loads a Percussion Pistol into her holster.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Horror]]

Van Helsing

2010-03-07T14:10:11Z

Big les: /* Colt Gatling Gun */ Deleted calibre, since this example is the British made 1" 1865 model.

'''The following guns were used in the film ''[[Van Helsing]]'':'''
[[Image:VanHelsingDVDcover.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Van Helsing (2004)'']]

==[[(Van Helsing) - Custom Revolvers|Custom Revolvers]]==
Gabriel Van Helsing ([[Hugh Jackman]]) uses two custom revolvers as his sidearms in the film. They appear to be completely fictional but bear resemblance to a Webley-Fosbery .455 "automatic" revolver. If anyone who worked on the film has information on these props, please share it. Like many props, it is assumed they are plastic shells covering [[Taurus Model 85]] revolvers.
[[Image:VHrevolvers-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires his Revolvers at Mr. Hyde in the church.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note how they featture zig-zags in the cylinder and a tip-open hinge like a Webley-Fosebery.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires his Revolvers at Mr. Hyde.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|When the townspeople try to dissarm Van Helsing, he puts his hands on his revolver and tells them they can try. Note the ornate cross grips.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing loads his revolvers with silver bullets when hunting down the Wolfman in the town. It is assumed that this is another prop built to load and not fire. It is confusing why it is loaded via loading gate when the gun has a tip-open action.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing goes to draw his revolvers when he see the Frankenstein monster in his lair.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna Valerious ([[Kate Beckinsale]]) uses one of Van Helsing's revolvers to shoot at the Wolfman when he finds the Frankenstein monster's lair.]]
[[Image:VHrevolvers-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing shoots the Wolfman while jumping through the air.]]

==Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3==
Velkan Valerious ([[Will Kemp]]) uses a nickel [[Smith & Wesson Schofield|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3]] loaded with silver bullets during the scene where he and his men try to capture the Wolfman.
[[Image:Schofield.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3 - .45 Schofield.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan fires his Smith & Wesson Schofield at Wolfman when he is trapped in a cage.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan's Schofield gets knocked out of his hand and falls to the ground.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan shoots the Wolfman with his Schofield before he is bitten and knocked off the cliff.]]
===Special===
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-4special.jpg|thumb|none|600px|When director Stephen Sommers tries to show the crew how the Schofield should fall on the ground, the prop breaks in half.]]
[[Image:VHS&WSchofield-5special.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Some day when I do a big budget movie, we won't have problems like this."]]

==Springfield 1873 Trapdoor==
Velkan's men firing at the Wolfman use [[Trapdoor Springfield Rifle|Springfield 1873 Trapdoor]] rifles but since the rounds aren't silver, the guns have no effect.
[[Image:TrapdoorSpringfield18873.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Springfield 1873 Trapdoor - .45-70.]]
[[Image:VHSpringfieldTrapdoor-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Velkan's men fire their Springfield 1873 Trapdoor rifles at Wolfman. God knows why they chose single shot rifles instead of repeaters for this task.]]

==Colt Gatling Gun==
One of the men in the invention room under the church (which is strangely similair to the gadget room in the 007 films) is seen testing a [[Gatling Gun|Colt Gatling Gun]] with a fiction "O" drum magazine. Firing a gun inside is not smart, especially in a room with all the other workers.
[[Image:Gatling gun 1865.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Gatling Gun 1865.]]
[[Image:VHGatlinggun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An inventor in the church fires a Gatling gun with a fictional drum magazine.]]

==Colt variant of Browning M1917==
A Colt version of the [[Browning M1917]] water-cooled machine gun is seen in the church, hence the spade grips. This gun is anachronistic for 1888 by a lot.
[[Image:ColtM1917watercooled.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt version of the Browning M1917 water-cooled machine gun - .30-06.]]
[[Image:VHwatercooled.jpg|thumb|none|600px|To the left of the Gatling gun is the Colt version of the Browning M1917.]]

==Remington 870 (mocked up)==
Van Helsing ([[Hugh Jackman]]) uses a [[Remington 870]] sawed-off and made to look like more of a wheel-lock pistol based on the shape of the stock. The gun is dressed up to look more "gothic" for the film by adding little insignias on it as well. Pump action shotguns had not been invented yet in 1888 except for the older Spencer 1882 shotgun but it can be assumed the gun is meant to be a complete invention of the church.
[[Image:SawnoffShotgun2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sawed-off Remington 870 - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing's shotgun is seen on the table as Carl ([[David Wenham]]) loads his bag with gear. Note the wheel-lock pistol style of the stock.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Carl loads the shotgun in his bag.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing searches for Dracula ([[Richard Roxburgh]]) in Frankenstein's castle with his shotgun in hand.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing inspects one of Dracula's eggs.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing readies his shotgun as the eggs begin to hatch.]]
[[Image:VHRem870mock-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing shoots Dracula's offspring with his shotgun.]]

==[[(Van Helsing) - Gas Operated Automatic Crossbow|Gas Operated Automatic Crossbow]]==
Carl ([[David Wenham]]) gives Van Helsing ([[Hugh Jackman]]) a custom built Crossbow which automatically fires bolts from a rotating drum. The bow is said to be gas operated, but since it isn't a gun, the tank fitted in the stock is assumed to be the "gas", like a C02 tank. Van Helsing is seen using the Crossbow to take on Dracula's ([[Richard Roxburgh]]) brides Aleera ([[Elena Anaya]]), Marishka ([[Josie Maran]]), and Verona ([[Silvia Colloca]]) when they try to attack Anna Valerious ([[Kate Beckinsale]]) during the day, using the clouds for cover. After dunking the bow in holy water at the church, he uses the bow to successfully take out Marishka.
[[Image:VHcrossbow-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Carl gives Van Helsing the Crossbow.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires his Crossbow at the brides when they first attack.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing with the Crossbow.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing switches the Crossbow's selector switch to semi-auto.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing fires a single bolt which pierces Verona's leg as she carries Anna. Even a gas-powered crossbow would have drop at such a range yet no compensation for drop is show.]]
[[Image:VHcrossbow-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Van Helsing's Crossbow lay out of reach as he and Marishka stand off.]]

==Flintlock Pistol==
When Anna searches the weapon room for an intruder, she picks up a [[Flintlock Pistol]] to defend herself. When she is surprised by the Wolfman, she fires a shot in his face and runs.
[[Image:flintlockpistol.gif|thumb|none|350px|Flintlock pistol]]
[[Image:VHBLunderbuss-Flintlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Flintlcok pistol is seen to the left on the table when Anna loads up.]]
[[Image:VHFlintlockpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna picks up a Flintlock pistol and cocks the hammer. Director Steven Sommers said she was cocking the gun too lightly and that he "needs a bigger cock." Kate Beckinsale replied "Don't we all."]]
[[Image:VHFlintlockpistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna searches the armory for the Wolfman.]]
[[Image:VHFlintlockpistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna shoots the Wolfman with the Flintlock pistol.]]

==Boot Flintlock Pistol==
Anna is seen picking up an Over and Under Flintlock Boot pistol when she loads up.
[[Image:VHBootflintlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna picks up an Over and Under Flintlock Boot pistol.]]

==Blunderbuss Flintlock Pistol==
A [[Blunderbuss]] Flintlock Pistol designed to fire scatter shot out of the cone shaped barrel is seen on a table when Anna loads up.
[[Image:VHBLunderbuss-Flintlock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Blunderbuss Pistol is seen on the table to the right.]]

==Matchlock Rifle==
Several [[Matchlock Rifle]]s are seen in the weapons room.
[[Image:VHMatchlock-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several Matchlock rifles are seen in the glass case to the left.]]
[[Image:VHMatchlock-2Flintlockrifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Matchlock rifles are seen in the glass case.]]

==Flintlock Rifle==
Several [[Flintlock Rifle]]s are seen in the glass case under the Matchlock rifles.
[[Image:Flintlockmusket.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Flintlock Musket]]
[[Image:VHMatchlock-2Flintlockrifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several Flintlock rifles are seen in the bottom glass case.]]

==Percussion Pistol==
Anna puts a [[Percussion Pistol]] into a long scabbard-like holster when she loads up.
[[Image:VHpercussionpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anna loads a Percussion Pistol into her holster.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Horror]]

The Patriot (2000)

2010-03-07T13:58:20Z

Big les: /* Flintlock Pistol */ Replaced miquelet lock replica with other example of 'flintlock' (albeit another replica).

Flintlock Pistol

2010-03-07T13:57:51Z

Big les: /* Flintlock Pistol */

==Flintlock Pistol==
Introduced about 1630, the flintlock rapidly replaced earlier firearm-ignition technologies, such as the matchlock and wheellock mechanisms. It continued to be in common use for over two centuries, replaced by percussion cap and, later, cartridge-based systems in the early-to-mid 19th century. The Model 1840 U.S. musket was the last flintlock firearm produced for the U.S. military [1] although there is evidence obsolete flintlocks were seeing action in the earliest days of the American Civil War In fact, during the first year of the war, the Army of Tennessee (Confederacy) had over 2,000 flintlock muskets in service. While technologically obsolete, flintlock firearms have enjoyed a renaissance among black powder shooting enthusiasts and many fine flintlock rifles and pistols are being made today.

'''Flintlock pistols can be seen in:'''

[[Image:TowerSeaServicePistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Tower Sea Service Pistol used by the Royal Navy.]]
[[Image:Sparroflintlock.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Prop replica of Jack Sparrow's 'Pirates' flintlock.]]
[[Image:flintlockpistol.gif|thumb|right|350px|Replica miquelet lock pistol as used in Predator 2.]]
[[Image:Frenchcavalryflintlock.jpg|thumb|right|350px|French Cavalry Flintlock.]]
[[Image:Irishtwinflintlockpistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Irish Twin Flintlock.]]
[[Image:Nockflintlockpistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Nock Flintlock Pistol with Ducks Foot barrel attachment.]]
[[Image:Pocketflintlockpistols.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Pocket sized Flintlock Pistols. The earliest form of Akimbo shooting.]]
[[Image:FlintlockVolleyPistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Volley Pistol.]]
[[Image:Wantedprop.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The original same prop used in Wanted.]]

==Film==

*''[[The Mission]]''
*''[[Plunkett and Macleane]]''
*''[[Van Helsing]]''
*''[[Blazing Saddles]]''
*''[[Patriot, The (2000)]]''
*''[[Treasure Island]]''
*''[[A Respectable Trade]]''
*''[[Highlander]]''
*''[[Barry Lyndon]]''
*''[[The Bounty]]''
*''[[Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl]]''
*''[[Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest]]''
*''[[Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End]]''

==Television==

* A Re-Enactor in ''[[Mail Call]]''
* ''[[Hornblower]]''
* ''[[Weapon Masters]]''
* ''[[Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman]]''

==Video Games==

==Anime==

==Animation==

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Pistol]]

Flintlock Pistol

2010-03-07T13:57:34Z

Big les: /* Flintlock Pistol */

==Flintlock Pistol==
Introduced about 1630, the flintlock rapidly replaced earlier firearm-ignition technologies, such as the matchlock and wheellock mechanisms. It continued to be in common use for over two centuries, replaced by percussion cap and, later, cartridge-based systems in the early-to-mid 19th century. The Model 1840 U.S. musket was the last flintlock firearm produced for the U.S. military [1] although there is evidence obsolete flintlocks were seeing action in the earliest days of the American Civil War In fact, during the first year of the war, the Army of Tennessee (Confederacy) had over 2,000 flintlock muskets in service. While technologically obsolete, flintlock firearms have enjoyed a renaissance among black powder shooting enthusiasts and many fine flintlock rifles and pistols are being made today.

'''Flintlock pistols can be seen in:'''

[[Image:TowerSeaServicePistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Tower Sea Service Pistol used by the Royal Navy.]]
[[Image:Sparroflintlock.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Prop replica of Jack Sparrow's flintlock.]]
[[Image:flintlockpistol.gif|thumb|right|350px|Replica miquelet lock pistol as used in Predator 2.]]
[[Image:Frenchcavalryflintlock.jpg|thumb|right|350px|French Cavalry Flintlock.]]
[[Image:Irishtwinflintlockpistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Irish Twin Flintlock.]]
[[Image:Nockflintlockpistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Nock Flintlock Pistol with Ducks Foot barrel attachment.]]
[[Image:Pocketflintlockpistols.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Pocket sized Flintlock Pistols. The earliest form of Akimbo shooting.]]
[[Image:FlintlockVolleyPistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Volley Pistol.]]
[[Image:Wantedprop.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The original same prop used in Wanted.]]

==Film==

*''[[The Mission]]''
*''[[Plunkett and Macleane]]''
*''[[Van Helsing]]''
*''[[Blazing Saddles]]''
*''[[Patriot, The (2000)]]''
*''[[Treasure Island]]''
*''[[A Respectable Trade]]''
*''[[Highlander]]''
*''[[Barry Lyndon]]''
*''[[The Bounty]]''
*''[[Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl]]''
*''[[Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest]]''
*''[[Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End]]''

==Television==

* A Re-Enactor in ''[[Mail Call]]''
* ''[[Hornblower]]''
* ''[[Weapon Masters]]''
* ''[[Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman]]''

==Video Games==

==Anime==

==Animation==

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Pistol]]

Flintlock Pistol

2010-03-07T13:49:37Z

Big les: /* Flintlock Pistol */

==Flintlock Pistol==
Introduced about 1630, the flintlock rapidly replaced earlier firearm-ignition technologies, such as the matchlock and wheellock mechanisms. It continued to be in common use for over two centuries, replaced by percussion cap and, later, cartridge-based systems in the early-to-mid 19th century. The Model 1840 U.S. musket was the last flintlock firearm produced for the U.S. military [1] although there is evidence obsolete flintlocks were seeing action in the earliest days of the American Civil War In fact, during the first year of the war, the Army of Tennessee (Confederacy) had over 2,000 flintlock muskets in service. While technologically obsolete, flintlock firearms have enjoyed a renaissance among black powder shooting enthusiasts and many fine flintlock rifles and pistols are being made today.

'''Flintlock pistols can be seen in:'''

[[Image:TowerSeaServicePistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Tower Sea Service Pistol used by the Royal Navy.]]
[[Image:Sparroflintlock.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Sparrow Flintlock.]]
[[Image:flintlockpistol.gif|thumb|right|350px|Replica miquelet lock pistol as used in Predator 2.]]
[[Image:Frenchcavalryflintlock.jpg|thumb|right|350px|French Cavalry Flintlock.]]
[[Image:Irishtwinflintlockpistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Irish Twin Flintlock.]]
[[Image:Nockflintlockpistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Nock Flintlock Pistol with Ducks Foot barrel attachment.]]
[[Image:Pocketflintlockpistols.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Pocket sized Flintlock Pistols. The earliest form of Akimbo shooting.]]
[[Image:FlintlockVolleyPistol.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Volley Pistol.]]
[[Image:Wantedprop.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The original same prop used in Wanted.]]

==Film==

*''[[The Mission]]''
*''[[Plunkett and Macleane]]''
*''[[Van Helsing]]''
*''[[Blazing Saddles]]''
*''[[Patriot, The (2000)]]''
*''[[Treasure Island]]''
*''[[A Respectable Trade]]''
*''[[Highlander]]''
*''[[Barry Lyndon]]''
*''[[The Bounty]]''
*''[[Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl]]''
*''[[Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest]]''
*''[[Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End]]''

==Television==

* A Re-Enactor in ''[[Mail Call]]''
* ''[[Hornblower]]''
* ''[[Weapon Masters]]''
* ''[[Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman]]''

==Video Games==

==Anime==

==Animation==

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Pistol]]

Predator 2

2010-03-07T13:47:12Z

Big les: /* Miquelet lock pistol */

Predator 2

2010-03-07T13:46:35Z

Big les: /* Flintlock Pistol */