Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Stranger Things - Season 3

2019-07-07T07:09:09Z

BeloglaviSup: /* AK-47 */

{{Infobox TV|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Stranger Things - Season 3
|picture = StrangerThingsSeason3.jpg
|country = [[File:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|channel = [[Netflix]]
|genre = [[:Category:Science-Fiction|Science-Fiction]] [[:Category:Horror|Horror]]
|creator = Matt Duffer Ross Duffer
|dates = 2019
|language = English
|episodes = 8
|actor1=[[Winona Ryder]]
|character1=Joyce Byers
|actor2=[[David Harbour]]
|character2=Jim Hopper
|actor3=Finn Wolfhard
|character3=Mike Wheeler
|actor4=Millie Bobby Brown
|character4=Eleven
|actor5=Gaten Matarazzo
|character5=Dustin Henderson
|actor6=Caleb McLaughlin
|character6=Lucas Sinclair
|actor7=[[Natalia Dyer]]
|character7=Nancy Wheeler
|actor8=[[Charlie Heaton]]
|character8=Jonathan Byers
|actor9=[[Brett Gelman]]
|character9=Murray Bauman
}}

{{TV Title Season|3|Stranger Things{{!}}Stranger Things}}

__TOC__ 

{{spoiler}}

=Handguns=
==Tokarev TT-33==
[[Tokarev TT-33]]s are used by Soviet security forces and soldiers, often suppressed. Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) and Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) both make use of TT-33s taken from incapacitated Soviets.
[[File:TT-33-Wartime.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Tokarev TT-33 7.62x25mm Tokarev with wide slide serrations (pre-1947 version)]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Russian soldiers holds TT-33s as they corner Robin and Steve in "Chapter Six: E Pluribus Unum". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries a TT-33 as he stalks Dr. Aleski through the fairgrounds in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian agent holds a suppressed TT-33 as he enters the funhouse in "Chapter Seven: The Bite". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper aims his newly acquired TT-33 a few moments later.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 10.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori fires as he falls for the old "hall of mirrors" trick. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Russian agent holds a [[TT-33]] as they corner the kids in "Chapter Seven: The Bite" (S3E07).]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy ([[Natalia Dyer]]) checks the magazine of a TT-33 taken from a dead agent in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nancy opens fire with a TT-33 as Billy charges the group.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The slide locks back as Nancy fires her last round.]]

==Smith and Wesson Model 66==
Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) returns to using the [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] revolver as his duty weapon in Season 3. He loses the weapon in "Chapter 5: The Flayed"
[[Image:Smith-&-Wesson-Model-66.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Smith & Wesson Model 66 with 4" barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his Model 66 as he checks out the abandoned Hawkins National Laboratory in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard".]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He holds the revolver while checking out a possible Soviet base in "Chapter Four: The Sauna Test" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Hopper and Joyce confront Dr. Alexi and his colleague inside.]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his [[Model 66]] to Grigori's head. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori acquires the Model 66 in the ensuing fight and gives us a fantastic view of the weapon ]]

=Shotguns=
==Remington 870==
Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) finds a [[Remington 870]] in Chief Hopper's shed and uses it against the Mind Flayer during the assault on Hopper's cabin in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".
[[Image:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 Police Magnum Riot Shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy finds the shotgun in the shed. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|She opens fire as the Mind Flayer attacks the cabin ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy reloads, giving a nice view of the bottom of the receiver. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy engages the Mind Flayer a second time as it targets Eleven. ]]

==Double Barreled Shotgun==
Murray Bauman ([[Brett Gelman]]) holds a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun|Double Barreled Shotgun]] on Alexi when Hopper and Joyce arrive with Alexi.
[[Image:StevesSBS1960s.jpg|thumb|none|500px|1960s Era Commercial Stevens hammerless side by side shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"''Why you shouldn't bring a Russian to a conspiracy theorist's house in 1985"'', Exhibit A ]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A view from a slightly friendlier side of the shotgun.]]

=Rifles=
==Zastava M92==
Soviet security forces often carry the anachronistic [[Zastava M92]] carbine while guarding shipments at Starcourt Mall, presumably as a stand-in for the contemporary AKS-74U.
[[Image:ZastavaM92.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Zastava M92 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian guard secures a shipment with his Zastava as Steve and Dustin watch in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another guard holds his Zastava as he checks out a noise.]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries an [[Zastava M92]] with jungle-taped magazines and an equally anachronistic PK-A optic as he enters a Soviet site in "Chapter Five: The Flayed" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He opens fire as Hopper and Joyce flee the bunker giving us a clear view on the recognizable Zastava handguard and his neglected PK-A sight. ]]

=="AKMSU"==
Curiously enough, a custom [[AKMSU]] appears as Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) appropriates one and uses it in the season finale "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).
[[Image:AKMSU Stock Removed.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom AK pistol converted into a Krinkov with a full auto lower and Krinkov kit - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper check the mag on a more appropriate "AKMSU" as he loads up in early in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He then mows down some Russians at the bottom of the elevator.]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper holds the carbine as he and Murray ([[Brett Gelman]]) infiltrate the Russian base in disguise in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

==AK-47==
Russian soldiers are armed with [[AK-47]] rifles.
[[Image:AK47-PolyTechLegend.jpg|thumb|400px|none|This is the commercial clone of the original Type III AK-47 and is the most used in American films and shows - 7.62x39mm.]]
[[File:StrangerS3E01 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Russian soldiers hold up AK-47s with safeties fearlessly on in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another soldier holds his AK-47 as Grigori's team arrives.]]

==M16A2==
[[M16A2]] rifles are used by US soldiers in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) as the storm the Soviet base. The rifles have large "Maglite"-style flashlights taped to the handguards.
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[File:Stranger3 m16 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A soldier exits a Huey behind Dr. Owens, giving a great view of the flashlight ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

=Machineguns=

==M60D==
UH-1 Hueys are seen with [[M60D]] Machine Guns as they arrive at Starcourt Mall in "Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[Image:M60d.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M60D machine gun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|As a Huey comes in to land, M60D door guns can be seen.]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A better view of a mounted [[M60D]] on a landed Huey.]]

=Other=
==Firecrackers==
The Party use bundles of firecrackers as improvised grenades against the Mind Flayer at the climax of Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[File:Stranger3 fire 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|'''"Flay this!"''' Lucas prepares to toss his firecrackers at the Mind Flayer. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Explosions light up the food court as the Mind Flayer is bombarded. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy lights a bundle ]]

==General Dynamics M197 Vulcan==
What is probably meant to be a [[M197 Vulcan]] cannon is seen mounted on a AH-1 Cobra as reinforcements arrive at the end of "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt".
[[Image:M197VulcanAH-1Z “Viper”.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M197 Vulcan.]]
[[File:Stranger3 cannon 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An AH-1 Cobra with M197 cannon flies over Dustin and Erica at the radio tower in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]

[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Horror]]
[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Netflix]]

Stranger Things - Season 3

2019-07-07T06:47:14Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Zastava M92 */

{{Infobox TV|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Stranger Things - Season 3
|picture = StrangerThingsSeason3.jpg
|country = [[File:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|channel = [[Netflix]]
|genre = [[:Category:Science-Fiction|Science-Fiction]] [[:Category:Horror|Horror]]
|creator = Matt Duffer Ross Duffer
|dates = 2019
|language = English
|episodes = 8
|actor1=[[Winona Ryder]]
|character1=Joyce Byers
|actor2=[[David Harbour]]
|character2=Jim Hopper
|actor3=Finn Wolfhard
|character3=Mike Wheeler
|actor4=Millie Bobby Brown
|character4=Eleven
|actor5=Gaten Matarazzo
|character5=Dustin Henderson
|actor6=Caleb McLaughlin
|character6=Lucas Sinclair
|actor7=[[Natalia Dyer]]
|character7=Nancy Wheeler
|actor8=[[Charlie Heaton]]
|character8=Jonathan Byers
|actor9=[[Brett Gelman]]
|character9=Murray Bauman
}}

{{TV Title Season|3|Stranger Things{{!}}Stranger Things}}

__TOC__ 

{{spoiler}}

=Handguns=
==Tokarev TT-33==
[[Tokarev TT-33]]s are used by Soviet security forces and soldiers, often suppressed. Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) and Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) both make use of TT-33s taken from incapacitated Soviets.
[[File:TT-33-Wartime.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Tokarev TT-33 7.62x25mm Tokarev with wide slide serrations (pre-1947 version)]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Russian soldiers holds TT-33s as they corner Robin and Steve in "Chapter Six: E Pluribus Unum". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries a TT-33 as he stalks Dr. Aleski through the fairgrounds in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian agent holds a suppressed TT-33 as he enters the funhouse in "Chapter Seven: The Bite". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper aims his newly acquired TT-33 a few moments later.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 10.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori fires as he falls for the old "hall of mirrors" trick. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Russian agent holds a [[TT-33]] as they corner the kids in "Chapter Seven: The Bite" (S3E07).]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy ([[Natalia Dyer]]) checks the magazine of a TT-33 taken from a dead agent in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nancy opens fire with a TT-33 as Billy charges the group.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The slide locks back as Nancy fires her last round.]]

==Smith and Wesson Model 66==
Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) returns to using the [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] revolver as his duty weapon in Season 3. He loses the weapon in "Chapter 5: The Flayed"
[[Image:Smith-&-Wesson-Model-66.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Smith & Wesson Model 66 with 4" barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his Model 66 as he checks out the abandoned Hawkins National Laboratory in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard".]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He holds the revolver while checking out a possible Soviet base in "Chapter Four: The Sauna Test" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Hopper and Joyce confront Dr. Alexi and his colleague inside.]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his [[Model 66]] to Grigori's head. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori acquires the Model 66 in the ensuing fight and gives us a fantastic view of the weapon ]]

=Shotguns=
==Remington 870==
Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) finds a [[Remington 870]] in Chief Hopper's shed and uses it against the Mind Flayer during the assault on Hopper's cabin in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".
[[Image:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 Police Magnum Riot Shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy finds the shotgun in the shed. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|She opens fire as the Mind Flayer attacks the cabin ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy reloads, giving a nice view of the bottom of the receiver. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy engages the Mind Flayer a second time as it targets Eleven. ]]

==Double Barreled Shotgun==
Murray Bauman ([[Brett Gelman]]) holds a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun|Double Barreled Shotgun]] on Alexi when Hopper and Joyce arrive with Alexi.
[[Image:StevesSBS1960s.jpg|thumb|none|500px|1960s Era Commercial Stevens hammerless side by side shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"''Why you shouldn't bring a Russian to a conspiracy theorist's house in 1985"'', Exhibit A ]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A view from a slightly friendlier side of the shotgun.]]

=Rifles=
==Zastava M92==
Soviet security forces often carry the anachronistic [[Zastava M92]] carbine while guarding shipments at Starcourt Mall, presumably as a stand-in for the contemporary AKS-74U.
[[Image:ZastavaM92.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Zastava M92 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian guard secures a shipment with his Zastava as Steve and Dustin watch in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another guard holds his Zastava as he checks out a noise.]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries an [[Zastava M92]] with jungle-taped magazines and an equally anachronistic PK-A optic as he enters a Soviet site in "Chapter Five: The Flayed" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He opens fire as Hopper and Joyce flee the bunker giving us a clear view on the recognizable Zastava handguard and his neglected PK-A sight. ]]

=="AKMSU"==
Curiously enough, a custom [[AKMSU]] appears as Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) appropriates one and uses it in the season finale "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).
[[Image:AKMSU Stock Removed.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom AK pistol converted into a Krinkov with a full auto lower and Krinkov kit - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper check the mag on a more appropriate "AKMSU" as he loads up in early in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He then mows down some Russians at the bottom of the elevator.]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper holds the carbine as he and Murray ([[Brett Gelman]]) infiltrate the Russian base in disguise in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

==AK-47==
Russian soldiers are armed with [[AK-47]] rifles.
[[Image:TypeIII AK47.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
[[File:StrangerS3E01 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Russian soldiers hold up AK-47s with safeties fearlessly on in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another soldier holds his AK-47 as Grigori's team arrives.]]

==M16A2==
[[M16A2]] rifles are used by US soldiers in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) as the storm the Soviet base. The rifles have large "Maglite"-style flashlights taped to the handguards.
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[File:Stranger3 m16 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A soldier exits a Huey behind Dr. Owens, giving a great view of the flashlight ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

=Machineguns=

==M60D==
UH-1 Hueys are seen with [[M60D]] Machine Guns as they arrive at Starcourt Mall in "Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[Image:M60d.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M60D machine gun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|As a Huey comes in to land, M60D door guns can be seen.]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A better view of a mounted [[M60D]] on a landed Huey.]]

=Other=
==Firecrackers==
The Party use bundles of firecrackers as improvised grenades against the Mind Flayer at the climax of Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[File:Stranger3 fire 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|'''"Flay this!"''' Lucas prepares to toss his firecrackers at the Mind Flayer. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Explosions light up the food court as the Mind Flayer is bombarded. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy lights a bundle ]]

==General Dynamics M197 Vulcan==
What is probably meant to be a [[M197 Vulcan]] cannon is seen mounted on a AH-1 Cobra as reinforcements arrive at the end of "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt".
[[Image:M197VulcanAH-1Z “Viper”.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M197 Vulcan.]]
[[File:Stranger3 cannon 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An AH-1 Cobra with M197 cannon flies over Dustin and Erica at the radio tower in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]

[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Horror]]
[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Netflix]]

Stranger Things - Season 3

2019-07-06T21:32:05Z

BeloglaviSup: These AKs look a lot like airsoft replicas.

{{Infobox TV|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Stranger Things - Season 3
|picture = StrangerThingsSeason3.jpg
|country = [[File:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|channel = [[Netflix]]
|genre = [[:Category:Science-Fiction|Science-Fiction]] [[:Category:Horror|Horror]]
|creator = Matt Duffer Ross Duffer
|dates = 2019
|language = English
|episodes = 8
|actor1=[[Winona Ryder]]
|character1=Joyce Byers
|actor2=[[David Harbour]]
|character2=Jim Hopper
|actor3=Finn Wolfhard
|character3=Mike Wheeler
|actor4=Millie Bobby Brown
|character4=Eleven
|actor5=Gaten Matarazzo
|character5=Dustin Henderson
|actor6=Caleb McLaughlin
|character6=Lucas Sinclair
|actor7=[[Natalia Dyer]]
|character7=Nancy Wheeler
|actor8=[[Charlie Heaton]]
|character8=Jonathan Byers
}}

{{TV Title Season|3|Stranger Things{{!}}Stranger Things}}

__TOC__ 

{{spoiler}}

=Handguns=
==Tokarev TT-33==
[[Tokarev TT-33]]s are used by Soviet security forces and soldiers, often suppressed. Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) and Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) both make use of TT-33s taken from incapacitated Soviets.
[[File:TT-33-Wartime.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Tokarev TT-33 7.62x25mm Tokarev with wide slide serrations (pre-1947 version)]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Russian soldiers holds TT-33s as they corner Robin and Steve in "Chapter Six: E Pluribus Unum". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries a TT-33 as he stalks Dr. Aleski through the fairgrounds in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian agent holds a suppressed TT-33 as he enters the funhouse in "Chapter Seven: The Bite". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper aims his newly acquired TT-33 a few moments later.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 10.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori fires as he falls for the old "hall of mirrors" trick. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Russian agent holds a [[TT-33]] as they corner the kids in "Chapter Seven: The Bite" (S3E07).]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy ([[Natalia Dyer]]) checks the magazine of a TT-33 taken from a dead agent in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nancy opens fire with a TT-33 as Billy charges the group.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The slide locks back as Nancy fires her last round.]]

==Smith and Wesson Model 66==
Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) returns to using the [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] revolver as his duty weapon in Season 3. He loses the weapon in "Chapter 5: The Flayed"
[[Image:Smith-&-Wesson-Model-66.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Smith & Wesson Model 66 with 4" barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his Model 66 as he checks out the abandoned Hawkins National Laboratory in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard".]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He holds the revolver while checking out a possible Soviet base in "Chapter Four: The Sauna Test" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Hopper and Joyce confront Dr. Alexi and his colleague inside.]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his [[Model 66]] to Grigori's head. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori acquires the Model 66 in the ensuing fight and gives is a fantastic view of the weapon ]]

=Shotguns=
==Remington 870==
Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) finds a [[Remington 870]] in Chief Hopper's shed and uses it against the Mind Flayer during the assault on Hopper's cabin in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".
[[Image:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 Police Magnum Riot Shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy finds the shotgun in the shed. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|She opens fire as the Mind Flayer attacks the cabin ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy reloads, giving a nice view of the bottom of the receiver. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy engages the Mind Flayer a second time as it targets Eleven. ]]

==Double Barreled Shotgun==
Murray Bauman (Brett Gelman) holds a [[Double Barreled Shotgun]] on Alexi when Hopper and Joyce arrive with Alexi.
[[Image:StevesSBS1960s.jpg|thumb|none|500px|1960s Era Commercial Stevens hammerless side by side shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"''Why you shouldn't bring a Russian to a conspiracy theorist's house in 1985"'', Exhibit A ]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A view from a slightly friendlier side of the shotgun.]]

=Rifles=
==Zastava M92==
Soviet security forces often carry the anachronistic [[Zastava M92]] carbine while guarding shipments at Starcourt Mall, presumably as a stand-in for the contemporary AKS-74U.
[[Image:ZastavaM92.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Zastava M92 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian guard secures a shipment with his Zastava as Steve and Dustin watch in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another guard holds his Zastava as he checks out a noise.]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries an [[Zastava M92]] with jungle-taped magazines and an unknown optic as he enters a Soviet site in "Chapter Five: The Flayed" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He opens fire as Hopper and Joyce flee the bunker. ]]

=="AKMSU"==
Curiously enough, a custom [[AKMSU]] appears as Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) appropriates one and uses it in the season finale "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).
[[Image:AKMSU Stock Removed.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom AK pistol converted into a Krinkov with a full auto lower and Krinkov kit - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper check the mag on a more appropriate "AKMSU" as he loads up in early in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He then mows down some Russians at the bottom of the elevator.]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper holds the carbine as they infiltrate the Russian base in disguise in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

==AK-47==
Russian soldiers are armed with [[AK-47]] rifles.
[[Image:TypeIII AK47.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
[[File:StrangerS3E01 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Russian soldiers hold up AK-47s with safeties fearlessly on in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another soldier holds his AK-47 as Grigori's team arrives.]]

==M16A2==
[[M16A2]] rifles are used by US soldiers in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) as the storm the Soviet base. The rifles have large "Maglite"-style flashlights taped to the handguards.
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[File:Stranger3 m16 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A soldier exits a Huey behind Dr. Owens, giving a great view of the flashlight ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

=Machineguns=

==M60D==
UH-1 Hueys are seen with [[M60D]] Machine Guns as they arrive at Starcourt Mall in "Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[Image:M60d.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M60D machine gun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|As a Huey comes in to land, M60D door guns can be seen.]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A better view of a mounted [[M60D]] on a landed Huey.]]

=Other=
==Firecrackers==
The Pary use bundles of firecrackers as improvised grenades against the Mind Flayer at the climax of Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[File:Stranger3 fire 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|'''"Flay this!"''' Lucas prepares to toss his firecrackers at the Mind Flayer. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Explosions light up the food court as the Mind Flayer is bombarded. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy lights a bundle ]]

==General Dynamics M197 Vulcan==
What is probably meant to be a [[M197 Vulcan]] cannon is seen mounted on a AH-1 Cobra as reinforcements arrive at the end of "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt".
[[Image:M197VulcanAH-1Z “Viper”.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M197 Vulcan.]]
[[File:Stranger3 cannon 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An AH-1 Cobra with M197 cannon flies over Dustin and Erica at the radio tower in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]

[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Horror]]
[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Netflix]]

Stranger Things - Season 3

2019-07-06T21:30:21Z

BeloglaviSup: /* "AKMSU" */

{{Infobox TV|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Stranger Things - Season 3
|picture = StrangerThingsSeason3.jpg
|country = [[File:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|channel = [[Netflix]]
|genre = [[:Category:Science-Fiction|Science-Fiction]] [[:Category:Horror|Horror]]
|creator = Matt Duffer Ross Duffer
|dates = 2019
|language = English
|episodes = 8
|actor1=[[Winona Ryder]]
|character1=Joyce Byers
|actor2=[[David Harbour]]
|character2=Jim Hopper
|actor3=Finn Wolfhard
|character3=Mike Wheeler
|actor4=Millie Bobby Brown
|character4=Eleven
|actor5=Gaten Matarazzo
|character5=Dustin Henderson
|actor6=Caleb McLaughlin
|character6=Lucas Sinclair
|actor7=[[Natalia Dyer]]
|character7=Nancy Wheeler
|actor8=[[Charlie Heaton]]
|character8=Jonathan Byers
}}

{{TV Title Season|3|Stranger Things{{!}}Stranger Things}}

__TOC__ 

{{spoiler}}

=Handguns=
==Tokarev TT-33==
[[Tokarev TT-33]]s are used by Soviet security forces and soldiers, often suppressed. Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) and Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) both make use of TT-33s taken from incapacitated Soviets.
[[File:TT-33-Wartime.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Tokarev TT-33 7.62x25mm Tokarev with wide slide serrations (pre-1947 version)]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Russian soldiers holds TT-33s as they corner Robin and Steve in "Chapter Six: E Pluribus Unum". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries a TT-33 as he stalks Dr. Aleski through the fairgrounds in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian agent holds a suppressed TT-33 as he enters the funhouse in "Chapter Seven: The Bite". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper aims his newly acquired TT-33 a few moments later.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 10.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori fires as he falls for the old "hall of mirrors" trick. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Russian agent holds a [[TT-33]] as they corner the kids in "Chapter Seven: The Bite" (S3E07).]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy ([[Natalia Dyer]]) checks the magazine of a TT-33 taken from a dead agent in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nancy opens fire with a TT-33 as Billy charges the group.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The slide locks back as Nancy fires her last round.]]

==Smith and Wesson Model 66==
Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) returns to using the [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] revolver as his duty weapon in Season 3. He loses the weapon in "Chapter 5: The Flayed"
[[Image:Smith-&-Wesson-Model-66.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Smith & Wesson Model 66 with 4" barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his Model 66 as he checks out the abandoned Hawkins National Laboratory in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard".]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He holds the revolver while checking out a possible Soviet base in "Chapter Four: The Sauna Test" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Hopper and Joyce confront Dr. Alexi and his colleague inside.]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his [[Model 66]] to Grigori's head. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori acquires the Model 66 in the ensuing fight and gives is a fantastic view of the weapon ]]

=Shotguns=
==Remington 870==
Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) finds a [[Remington 870]] in Chief Hopper's shed and uses it against the Mind Flayer during the assault on Hopper's cabin in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".
[[Image:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 Police Magnum Riot Shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy finds the shotgun in the shed. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|She opens fire as the Mind Flayer attacks the cabin ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy reloads, giving a nice view of the bottom of the receiver. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy engages the Mind Flayer a second time as it targets Eleven. ]]

==Double Barreled Shotgun==
Murray Bauman (Brett Gelman) holds a [[Double Barreled Shotgun]] on Alexi when Hopper and Joyce arrive with Alexi.
[[Image:StevesSBS1960s.jpg|thumb|none|500px|1960s Era Commercial Stevens hammerless side by side shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"''Why you shouldn't bring a Russian to a conspiracy theorist's house in 1985"'', Exhibit A ]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A view from a slightly friendlier side of the shotgun.]]

=Rifles=
==Zastava M92==
Soviet security forces often carry the anachronistic [[Zastava M92]] carbine while guarding shipments at Starcourt Mall, presumably as a stand-in for the contemporary AKS-74U.
[[Image:ZastavaM92.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Zastava M92 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian guard secures a shipment with his Zastava as Steve and Dustin watch in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another guard holds his Zastava as he checks out a noise.]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries an [[Zastava M92]] with jungle-taped magazines and an unknown optic as he enters a Soviet site in "Chapter Five: The Flayed" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He opens fire as Hopper and Joyce flee the bunker. ]]

=="AKMSU"==
Curiously enough, a custom [[AKMSU]] appears as Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) appropriates one and uses it in the season finale "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).
[[Image:AKMSU Stock Removed.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom AK pistol converted into a Krinkov with a full auto lower and Krinkov kit - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper check the mag on a more appropriate "AKMSU" as he loads up in early in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He then mows down some Russians at the bottom of the elevator.]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper holds the carbine as they infiltrate the Russian base in disguise in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

==AK-47==
Russian soldiers are armed with [[AK-47]] rifles.
[[Image:TypeIII AK47.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
[[File:StrangerS3E01 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Russian soldiers hold AK-47s in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another soldier holds his AK-47 as Grigori's team arrives.]]

==M16A2==
[[M16A2]] rifles are used by US soldiers in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) as the storm the Soviet base. The rifles have large "Maglite"-style flashlights taped to the handguards.
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[File:Stranger3 m16 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A soldier exits a Huey behind Dr. Owens, giving a great view of the flashlight ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

=Machineguns=

==M60D==
UH-1 Hueys are seen with [[M60D]] Machine Guns as they arrive at Starcourt Mall in "Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[Image:M60d.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M60D machine gun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|As a Huey comes in to land, M60D door guns can be seen.]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A better view of a mounted [[M60D]] on a landed Huey.]]

=Other=
==Firecrackers==
The Pary use bundles of firecrackers as improvised grenades against the Mind Flayer at the climax of Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[File:Stranger3 fire 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|'''"Flay this!"''' Lucas prepares to toss his firecrackers at the Mind Flayer. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Explosions light up the food court as the Mind Flayer is bombarded. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy lights a bundle ]]

==General Dynamics M197 Vulcan==
What is probably meant to be a [[M197 Vulcan]] cannon is seen mounted on a AH-1 Cobra as reinforcements arrive at the end of "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt".
[[Image:M197VulcanAH-1Z “Viper”.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M197 Vulcan.]]
[[File:Stranger3 cannon 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An AH-1 Cobra with M197 cannon flies over Dustin and Erica at the radio tower in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]

[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Horror]]
[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Netflix]]

Stranger Things - Season 3

2019-07-06T21:29:09Z

BeloglaviSup: Both the Zastava and the "Krinkov" appear apperantly standing in for the same gun. Why? I don't know, perhaps it has something to do with blank conversions. Hope this clears things up a little bit.

{{Infobox TV|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Stranger Things - Season 3
|picture = StrangerThingsSeason3.jpg
|country = [[File:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|channel = [[Netflix]]
|genre = [[:Category:Science-Fiction|Science-Fiction]] [[:Category:Horror|Horror]]
|creator = Matt Duffer Ross Duffer
|dates = 2019
|language = English
|episodes = 8
|actor1=[[Winona Ryder]]
|character1=Joyce Byers
|actor2=[[David Harbour]]
|character2=Jim Hopper
|actor3=Finn Wolfhard
|character3=Mike Wheeler
|actor4=Millie Bobby Brown
|character4=Eleven
|actor5=Gaten Matarazzo
|character5=Dustin Henderson
|actor6=Caleb McLaughlin
|character6=Lucas Sinclair
|actor7=[[Natalia Dyer]]
|character7=Nancy Wheeler
|actor8=[[Charlie Heaton]]
|character8=Jonathan Byers
}}

{{TV Title Season|3|Stranger Things{{!}}Stranger Things}}

__TOC__ 

{{spoiler}}

=Handguns=
==Tokarev TT-33==
[[Tokarev TT-33]]s are used by Soviet security forces and soldiers, often suppressed. Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) and Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) both make use of TT-33s taken from incapacitated Soviets.
[[File:TT-33-Wartime.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Tokarev TT-33 7.62x25mm Tokarev with wide slide serrations (pre-1947 version)]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Russian soldiers holds TT-33s as they corner Robin and Steve in "Chapter Six: E Pluribus Unum". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries a TT-33 as he stalks Dr. Aleski through the fairgrounds in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian agent holds a suppressed TT-33 as he enters the funhouse in "Chapter Seven: The Bite". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper aims his newly acquired TT-33 a few moments later.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 10.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori fires as he falls for the old "hall of mirrors" trick. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Russian agent holds a [[TT-33]] as they corner the kids in "Chapter Seven: The Bite" (S3E07).]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy ([[Natalia Dyer]]) checks the magazine of a TT-33 taken from a dead agent in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nancy opens fire with a TT-33 as Billy charges the group.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The slide locks back as Nancy fires her last round.]]

==Smith and Wesson Model 66==
Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) returns to using the [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] revolver as his duty weapon in Season 3. He loses the weapon in "Chapter 5: The Flayed"
[[Image:Smith-&-Wesson-Model-66.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Smith & Wesson Model 66 with 4" barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his Model 66 as he checks out the abandoned Hawkins National Laboratory in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard".]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He holds the revolver while checking out a possible Soviet base in "Chapter Four: The Sauna Test" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Hopper and Joyce confront Dr. Alexi and his colleague inside.]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his [[Model 66]] to Grigori's head. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori acquires the Model 66 in the ensuing fight and gives is a fantastic view of the weapon ]]

=Shotguns=
==Remington 870==
Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) finds a [[Remington 870]] in Chief Hopper's shed and uses it against the Mind Flayer during the assault on Hopper's cabin in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".
[[Image:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 Police Magnum Riot Shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy finds the shotgun in the shed. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|She opens fire as the Mind Flayer attacks the cabin ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy reloads, giving a nice view of the bottom of the receiver. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy engages the Mind Flayer a second time as it targets Eleven. ]]

==Double Barreled Shotgun==
Murray Bauman (Brett Gelman) holds a [[Double Barreled Shotgun]] on Alexi when Hopper and Joyce arrive with Alexi.
[[Image:StevesSBS1960s.jpg|thumb|none|500px|1960s Era Commercial Stevens hammerless side by side shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"''Why you shouldn't bring a Russian to a conspiracy theorist's house in 1985"'', Exhibit A ]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A view from a slightly friendlier side of the shotgun.]]

=Rifles=
==Zastava M92==
Soviet security forces often carry the anachronistic [[Zastava M92]] carbine while guarding shipments at Starcourt Mall, presumably as a stand-in for the contemporary AKS-74U.
[[Image:ZastavaM92.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Zastava M92 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian guard secures a shipment with his Zastava as Steve and Dustin watch in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another guard holds his Zastava as he checks out a noise.]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries an [[Zastava M92]] with jungle-taped magazines and an unknown optic as he enters a Soviet site in "Chapter Five: The Flayed" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He opens fire as Hopper and Joyce flee the bunker. ]]

=="AKMSU"==
Curiously enough, a custom [[AKMSU]] appears as Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) appropriates one and uses it in the season finale "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).
[[Image:AK-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom AK pistol converted into a Krinkov with a full auto lower and Krinkov kit - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper check the mag on a more appropriate "AKMSU" as he loads up in early in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He then mows down some Russians at the bottom of the elevator.]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper holds the carbine as they infiltrate the Russian base in disguise in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

==AK-47==
Russian soldiers are armed with [[AK-47]] rifles.
[[Image:TypeIII AK47.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
[[File:StrangerS3E01 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Russian soldiers hold AK-47s in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another soldier holds his AK-47 as Grigori's team arrives.]]

==M16A2==
[[M16A2]] rifles are used by US soldiers in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) as the storm the Soviet base. The rifles have large "Maglite"-style flashlights taped to the handguards.
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[File:Stranger3 m16 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A soldier exits a Huey behind Dr. Owens, giving a great view of the flashlight ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

=Machineguns=

==M60D==
UH-1 Hueys are seen with [[M60D]] Machine Guns as they arrive at Starcourt Mall in "Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[Image:M60d.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M60D machine gun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|As a Huey comes in to land, M60D door guns can be seen.]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A better view of a mounted [[M60D]] on a landed Huey.]]

=Other=
==Firecrackers==
The Pary use bundles of firecrackers as improvised grenades against the Mind Flayer at the climax of Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[File:Stranger3 fire 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|'''"Flay this!"''' Lucas prepares to toss his firecrackers at the Mind Flayer. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Explosions light up the food court as the Mind Flayer is bombarded. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy lights a bundle ]]

==General Dynamics M197 Vulcan==
What is probably meant to be a [[M197 Vulcan]] cannon is seen mounted on a AH-1 Cobra as reinforcements arrive at the end of "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt".
[[Image:M197VulcanAH-1Z “Viper”.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M197 Vulcan.]]
[[File:Stranger3 cannon 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An AH-1 Cobra with M197 cannon flies over Dustin and Erica at the radio tower in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]

[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Horror]]
[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Netflix]]

Stranger Things - Season 3

2019-07-06T21:22:04Z

BeloglaviSup: /* AKMSU */

{{Infobox TV|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Stranger Things - Season 3
|picture = StrangerThingsSeason3.jpg
|country = [[File:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|channel = [[Netflix]]
|genre = [[:Category:Science-Fiction|Science-Fiction]] [[:Category:Horror|Horror]]
|creator = Matt Duffer Ross Duffer
|dates = 2019
|language = English
|episodes = 8
|actor1=[[Winona Ryder]]
|character1=Joyce Byers
|actor2=[[David Harbour]]
|character2=Jim Hopper
|actor3=Finn Wolfhard
|character3=Mike Wheeler
|actor4=Millie Bobby Brown
|character4=Eleven
|actor5=Gaten Matarazzo
|character5=Dustin Henderson
|actor6=Caleb McLaughlin
|character6=Lucas Sinclair
|actor7=[[Natalia Dyer]]
|character7=Nancy Wheeler
|actor8=[[Charlie Heaton]]
|character8=Jonathan Byers
}}

{{TV Title Season|3|Stranger Things{{!}}Stranger Things}}

__TOC__ 

{{spoiler}}

=Handguns=
==Tokarev TT-33==
[[Tokarev TT-33]]s are used by Soviet security forces and soldiers, often suppressed. Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) and Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) both make use of TT-33s taken from incapacitated Soviets.
[[File:TT-33-Wartime.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Tokarev TT-33 7.62x25mm Tokarev with wide slide serrations (pre-1947 version)]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Russian soldiers holds TT-33s as they corner Robin and Steve in "Chapter Six: E Pluribus Unum". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries a TT-33 as he stalks Dr. Aleski through the fairgrounds in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian agent holds a suppressed TT-33 as he enters the funhouse in "Chapter Seven: The Bite". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper aims his newly acquired TT-33 a few moments later.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 10.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori fires as he falls for the old "hall of mirrors" trick. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Russian agent holds a [[TT-33]] as they corner the kids in "Chapter Seven: The Bite" (S3E07).]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy ([[Natalia Dyer]]) checks the magazine of a TT-33 taken from a dead agent in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nancy opens fire with a TT-33 as Billy charges the group.]]
[[File:Stranger3 tt 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The slide locks back as Nancy fires her last round.]]

==Smith and Wesson Model 66==
Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) returns to using the [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] revolver as his duty weapon in Season 3. He loses the weapon in "Chapter 5: The Flayed"
[[Image:Smith-&-Wesson-Model-66.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Smith & Wesson Model 66 with 4" barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his Model 66 as he checks out the abandoned Hawkins National Laboratory in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard".]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He holds the revolver while checking out a possible Soviet base in "Chapter Four: The Sauna Test" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Hopper and Joyce confront Dr. Alexi and his colleague inside.]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper holds his [[Model 66]] to Grigori's head. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 python 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori acquires the Model 66 in the ensuing fight and gives is a fantastic view of the weapon ]]

=Shotguns=
==Remington 870==
Nancy Wheeler ([[Natalia Dyer]]) finds a [[Remington 870]] in Chief Hopper's shed and uses it against the Mind Flayer during the assault on Hopper's cabin in "Chapter Seven: The Bite".
[[Image:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 Police Magnum Riot Shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy finds the shotgun in the shed. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|She opens fire as the Mind Flayer attacks the cabin ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy reloads, giving a nice view of the bottom of the receiver. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 870 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy engages the Mind Flayer a second time as it targets Eleven. ]]

==Double Barreled Shotgun==
Murray Bauman (Brett Gelman) holds a [[Double Barreled Shotgun]] on Alexi when Hopper and Joyce arrive with Alexi.
[[Image:StevesSBS1960s.jpg|thumb|none|500px|1960s Era Commercial Stevens hammerless side by side shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"''Why you shouldn't bring a Russian to a conspiracy theorist's house in 1985"'', Exhibit A ]]
[[File:Stranger3 shotgun 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A view from a slightly friendlier side of the shotgun.]]

=Rifles=
==Zastava M92==
Soviet security forces often carry the anachronistic [[Zastava M92]] carbine while guarding shipments at Starcourt Mall, presumably as a stand-in for the contemporary AKS-74U. Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) appropriates one and uses it in the season finale "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).
[[Image:ZastavaM92.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Zastava M92 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Russian guard secures a shipment with his Zastava as Steve and Dustin watch in "Chapter Three: The Case of the Missing Lifeguard" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another guard holds his Zastava as he checks out a noise.]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Grigori (Andrey Ivchenko) carries an [[Zastava M92]] with jungle-taped magazines and an unknown optic as he enters a Soviet site in "Chapter Five: The Flayed" ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|He opens fire as Hopper and Joyce flee the bunker. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Chief Hopper check the mag on an Zastava as he loads up in early in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak 9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He then mows down some Russians at the bottom of the elevator.]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chief Hopper holds an Zastava as they infiltrate the Russian base in disguise in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

==AK-47==
Russian soldiers are armed with [[AK-47]] rifles.
[[Image:TypeIII AK47.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
[[File:StrangerS3E01 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Russian soldiers hold AK-47s in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:Stranger3 ak2 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another soldier holds his AK-47 as Grigori's team arrives.]]

==M16A2==
[[M16A2]] rifles are used by US soldiers in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08) as the storm the Soviet base. The rifles have large "Maglite"-style flashlights taped to the handguards.
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[File:Stranger3 m16 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A soldier exits a Huey behind Dr. Owens, giving a great view of the flashlight ]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]
[[File:StrangerS3E08 17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt" (S3E08).]]

=Machineguns=

==M60D==
UH-1 Hueys are seen with [[M60D]] Machine Guns as they arrive at Starcourt Mall in "Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[Image:M60d.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M60D machine gun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|As a Huey comes in to land, M60D door guns can be seen.]]
[[File:Stranger3 m60 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A better view of a mounted [[M60D]] on a landed Huey.]]

=Other=
==Firecrackers==
The Pary use bundles of firecrackers as improvised grenades against the Mind Flayer at the climax of Chapter Eight The Battle of Starcourt"
[[File:Stranger3 fire 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|'''"Flay this!"''' Lucas prepares to toss his firecrackers at the Mind Flayer. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Explosions light up the food court as the Mind Flayer is bombarded. ]]
[[File:Stranger3 fire 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Nancy lights a bundle ]]

==General Dynamics M197 Vulcan==
What is probably meant to be a [[M197 Vulcan]] cannon is seen mounted on a AH-1 Cobra as reinforcements arrive at the end of "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt".
[[Image:M197VulcanAH-1Z “Viper”.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M197 Vulcan.]]
[[File:Stranger3 cannon 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An AH-1 Cobra with M197 cannon flies over Dustin and Erica at the radio tower in "Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt". ]]

[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Horror]]
[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Netflix]]

The Interview

2017-12-13T17:39:07Z

BeloglaviSup: /* DShK Heavy Machine Gun */

{{incomplete}}
'''The following weapons can be seen in the film ''The Interview'':'''
[[Image:The Interview 2014 poster.jpg|thumb|right|400px|''The Interview'' (2014)]]
__TOC__ 

==Makarov PM==

Aaron Rapaport ([[Seth Rogen]]) and Sook (Diana Bang) carry [[Makarov PM]]s as their sidearms. They use them to take over the broadcasting center. North Korean soldiers can also be seen with this weapon.
[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Makarov PM 9x18mm PM]]
[[Image:InterviewMakarov.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Aaron Rapaport ([[Seth Rogen]]) takes a Makarov PM.]]

==AK-74M==

In one scene, a North Korean soldier can be seen armed with an [[AK-74M]], aiming it at the protagonists when they meet North Korean Director of Communications Sook ([[Diana Bang]]). This is somewhat inaccurate, as the AK-74M is not used by the military of the DPRK.

[[Image:AK-74M.jpg|thumb|none|350px|AK-74M 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:InterviewAK74M.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A North Korean soldier brandishes an AK-74M as the protagonists meet Director of Communications Sook]]

==Unknown MP5 Variant==
SEAL Team 6 members that rescue the protagonists can be seen with an unknown variant of the MP5, fitted with [[UMP]] stocks and ACOG scopes.
[[File:MP5 UMP stock.jpg|thumb|450px|none|MP5A3 with UMP stock, RIS foregrip, KAC railed forend, M68 Aimpoint red dot sight, and weaponlight - 9x19mm]]
[[File:TheInterviewMP5.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

==Norinco Type 84S-1==

One North Korean soldier can be seen armed with a [[AK-47#Norinco Type 84S|Norinco Type 84S-1]], distinguished by the hooded front sight and lightly-curved 5.56mm magazine. While the North Koreans do use the Chinese AK clones, they use the 7.62mm [[AK-47#Norinco Type 56|Norinco Type 56]], not the Type 84S.

[[Image:NorincoType84SFolder.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Norinco Type 84S-1 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:InterviewType84S1.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A North Korean soldier armed with a Norinco Type 84S-1 as Sook disembarks from her helicopter]]

==RPD Light Machine Gun==

In one scene, an [[RPD light machine gun]] can be seen being taken from a hidden compartment and fired on North Korean soldiers by Director of Communications Sook.

[[Image:RPD-Light-Machine-Gun.jpg|thumb|none|350px|RPD Light Machine Gun 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:InterviewRPD.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Sook opens up with an RPD light machine gun]]

==Type 73 Light Machine Gun==

In promotional material for the film, such as the poster shown above, North Korean soldiers can be seen brandishing [[Type 73 light machine gun]]s.

[[Image:Type73LMG.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Type 73 Light Machine Gun - 7.62x54mm R]]

==DShK Heavy Machine Gun==

A [[DShK heavy machine gun]] can be seen mounted on a T-55 tank that Kim Jong-Un ([[Randall Park]]) shows off to the protagonists. Movie claims the tank was "a gift from Stalin" despite the fact that earliest T-55 model entered production in 1958, and the starring T-55A entering in 1961, nine years after Stalin's death, and well into the process of de-Stalinization within the Soviet Union. T-55A used in the movie in fact belongs to the 1966 ZTS-Martin production from Czechoslovakia and currently resides in the collection of the Chilliwack Military Education Centre.

[[Image:DSHK.jpg|thumb|none|300px|DShK Heavy Machine Gun tripod-mounted 12.7x108mm]]
[[Image:InterviewDShK.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A DShK heavy machine gun mounted on a Czechoslovakian, pretending to be Soviet, pretending to be in North Korea, T-55 tank]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Comedy]]
[[Category:Espionage]]

The Interview

2017-12-13T17:32:45Z

BeloglaviSup: /* DShK Heavy Machine Gun */

{{incomplete}}
'''The following weapons can be seen in the film ''The Interview'':'''
[[Image:The Interview 2014 poster.jpg|thumb|right|400px|''The Interview'' (2014)]]
__TOC__ 

==Makarov PM==

Aaron Rapaport ([[Seth Rogen]]) and Sook (Diana Bang) carry [[Makarov PM]]s as their sidearms. They use them to take over the broadcasting center. North Korean soldiers can also be seen with this weapon.
[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Makarov PM 9x18mm PM]]
[[Image:InterviewMakarov.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Aaron Rapaport ([[Seth Rogen]]) takes a Makarov PM.]]

==AK-74M==

In one scene, a North Korean soldier can be seen armed with an [[AK-74M]], aiming it at the protagonists when they meet North Korean Director of Communications Sook ([[Diana Bang]]). This is somewhat inaccurate, as the AK-74M is not used by the military of the DPRK.

[[Image:AK-74M.jpg|thumb|none|350px|AK-74M 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:InterviewAK74M.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A North Korean soldier brandishes an AK-74M as the protagonists meet Director of Communications Sook]]

==Unknown MP5 Variant==
SEAL Team 6 members that rescue the protagonists can be seen with an unknown variant of the MP5, fitted with [[UMP]] stocks and ACOG scopes.
[[File:MP5 UMP stock.jpg|thumb|450px|none|MP5A3 with UMP stock, RIS foregrip, KAC railed forend, M68 Aimpoint red dot sight, and weaponlight - 9x19mm]]
[[File:TheInterviewMP5.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

==Norinco Type 84S-1==

One North Korean soldier can be seen armed with a [[AK-47#Norinco Type 84S|Norinco Type 84S-1]], distinguished by the hooded front sight and lightly-curved 5.56mm magazine. While the North Koreans do use the Chinese AK clones, they use the 7.62mm [[AK-47#Norinco Type 56|Norinco Type 56]], not the Type 84S.

[[Image:NorincoType84SFolder.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Norinco Type 84S-1 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:InterviewType84S1.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A North Korean soldier armed with a Norinco Type 84S-1 as Sook disembarks from her helicopter]]

==RPD Light Machine Gun==

In one scene, an [[RPD light machine gun]] can be seen being taken from a hidden compartment and fired on North Korean soldiers by Director of Communications Sook.

[[Image:RPD-Light-Machine-Gun.jpg|thumb|none|350px|RPD Light Machine Gun 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:InterviewRPD.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Sook opens up with an RPD light machine gun]]

==Type 73 Light Machine Gun==

In promotional material for the film, such as the poster shown above, North Korean soldiers can be seen brandishing [[Type 73 light machine gun]]s.

[[Image:Type73LMG.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Type 73 Light Machine Gun - 7.62x54mm R]]

==DShK Heavy Machine Gun==

A [[DShK heavy machine gun]] can be seen mounted on a T-55 tank that Kim Jong-Un ([[Randall Park]]) shows off to the protagonists. Movie claims the tank was "a gift from Stalin" despite the fact that earliest T-55 model entered production in 1958, and the starring T-55A entering in 1961, nine years after Stalin's death, and well into the process of de-Stalinization within the Soviet Union. T-55A used in the movie in fact belongs to the 1966 ZTS-Martin production from Czechoslovakia and currently resides in the collection of the Chilliwack Military Education Centre.

[[Image:DSHK.jpg|thumb|none|300px|DShK Heavy Machine Gun tripod-mounted 12.7x108mm]]
[[Image:InterviewDShK.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A DShK heavy machine gun mounted on a North Korean T-55 tank]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Comedy]]
[[Category:Espionage]]

Stranger Things - Season 2

2017-11-02T21:50:24Z

BeloglaviSup:

{{WIP}}

{{Infobox TV|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Stranger Things - Season 2
|picture = StrangerThingsSeason2.jpg
|country = [[File:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|channel = [[Netflix]]
|genre = [[:Category:Science-Fiction|Science-Fiction]] [[:Category:Horror|Horror]]
|creator = Matt Duffer Ross Duffer
|dates = 2017
|language = English
|episodes = 9
|actor1=[[Winona Ryder]]
|character1=Joyce Byers
|actor2=[[David Harbour]]
|character2=Jim Hopper
|actor3=Finn Wolfhard
|character3=Mike Wheeler
|actor4=Millie Bobby Brown
|character4=Eleven
|actor5=Gaten Matarazzo
|character5=Dustin Henderson
|actor6=Caleb McLaughlin
|character6=Lucas Sinclair
|actor7=[[Natalia Dyer]]
|character7=Nancy Wheeler
|actor8=[[Charlie Heaton]]
|character8=Jonathan Byers
}}

{{TV Title Season|2|Stranger Things{{!}}Stranger Things}}

__TOC__ 

{{spoilers}}

==Colt Python==
Chief Hopper ([[David Harbour]]) replaces the [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] that he lost in the first season with a stainless steel [[Colt Python]].
[[Image:ColtPythonSS.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Python Stainless Steel variant with 4" Barrel and Colt marked rubber combat grips - .357 Magnum]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5K==
[[MP5K#Heckler_.26_Koch_MP5K|Heckler & Koch MP5K]] with a side folding stock is seen used by security guards in front of the Hawkins National Laboratory building in "Chapter Four: Will The Wise" (S2E04).
[[Image:HKMP5KA5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5KA5 with PDW stock and 15-round magazine - 9x19mm]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 10==
A [[Smith & Wesson Model 10]] is seen used by a CPD officer in "Chapter Seven: The Bathtub" (S2E07).
[[File:S&W-Model-10.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson Model 10 Revolver - .38 Special, R-side]]

== Ruger Mini-14 ==
CPD SWAT officers are armed with [[Ruger Mini-14]] rifles in "Chapter Seven: The Bathtub" (S2E07).
[[Image:Ruger Mini-14 GB.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Ruger Mini-14 GB ("Government Barrel") - 5.56x45mm]]

[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Horror]]
[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Netflix]]

Civilization IV

2017-10-10T07:17:59Z

BeloglaviSup: /* DShK */

[[Image:Civ4.jpg|300px|thumb|right|Civilization IV (2005)]]

'''''Civilization IV''''' is a 2005 turn-based strategy developed by Firaxis, and created by Sid Meier. The premise of the game is starting with a band of settlers in the year 4000 B.C. and creating a civilization to stand the test of time. Once the player enters the Renaissance Era and beyond they have the ability to create units armed with many firearms. While the graphics are low quality (Which makes some guns difficult to I.D.), many guns are very intricate in their design and easily recognizable.

{{Game Title|Civilization IV (and expansion packs)}}

__TOC__ 

=Handguns=
==Single Action Army==
If the player is granted a Great General in the Industrial Age and beyond, the Unit is seen wielding a blocky looking [[Single Action Army]]. The look of the General appears to be based off of George S. Patton, so the use of a Colt SAA is fitting.
[[Image:ColtSAA475barrel.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel ('Quick-Draw' / 'Civilian' model) - .45 Colt]]
[[Image:CivIV Webley.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Great General brandishing his Colt Revolver. Note he is named Ivan the Terrible - All granted Great Person units are randomly named, leading to this.]]

==Unknown Suppressed Pistol==
The Industrial Age and later Great Spy's (based off [[James Bond]]) icon shows an unknown suppressed handgun.
[[Image:CivIV_greatspy.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The icon for the Great Spy in the late part of the game shows an unknown suppressed handgun.]]

==Walther PPK==
The Industrial Age and later Spy's icon shows a suppressed [[Walther PPK]].
[[Image:WaltherPPKSuppressed.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Walther PPK with suppressor - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:CivIV_spy.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The icon for the Spy in the late part of the game shows a suppressed Walther PPK.]]

=Submachine Guns=
==Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion==
The SAM Infantry unit wields [[Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion|Skorpion]]s whenever they attack (or are attacked by) ground-based units.
[[Image:CZ Vz.61.jpg|300px|thumb|none|Skorpion Sa. Vz.61 - .32 ACP (7.65x17mm)]]
[[Image:CivIV Skorpion.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The SAM Infantry Unit points his Skorpion.]]

==M1 Thompson==
The Paratrooper unit (Based off of US WWII Paratroopers) wield [[M1 Thompson]]s.
[[Image:M1Thompson.jpg|400px|thumb|none|M1 Thompson with 20-round magazine - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:CivIV M1Thompson.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Paratrooper unit scouting out the terrain armed with M1 Thompsons.]]

==M3 Grease Gun==
The flag for the Red Syndicate in the "Final Frontier" scenario shows the silhouette of an [[M3 Grease Gun]].
[[Image:M3 Grease.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M3 Grease Gun - 9x19mm]]
[[File:CivIV greasegun.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Red Syndicate's flag shows an M3 Grease Gun.]]

=Rifles/Carbines=
==Spencer Carbine==
The Cavalry unit (Based off the US Cavalry), is seen using what appears to be a [[Spencer 1860 Carbine|Spencer Carbine]] breechloader.
[[Image:Spencer 1860 Carbine.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Spencer Model 1860 Carbine]]
[[Image:CivIV Spencer.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Cavalry unit guards a river with their Spencer carbines.]]

==Mosin Nagant==
The Russian Cossack unit wields what appears to be a [[Mosin Nagant Rifle|Mosin Nagant]], which was a standard issue rifle for them during the later 19th century.
[[Image:1891-Mosin-Nagant.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Full-length Imperial Russian Mosin Nagant M1891 - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:CivIV MosinNagant.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Russian civilization's special Cossack units armed with their Mosins.]]

==M1 Garand==
The Infantry unit (Based off of WWII-era US Army soldiers) are equipped with very blocky [[M1 Garand]] rifles.
[[Image:M1 Garand.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M1 Garand semiautomatic Rifle with leather M1917 sling - .30-06]]
[[Image:CivIV Springfield.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Infantry Unit stands guard with his trusty M1 Garand.]]

==Musket (various)==
The Ottoman Janissary, French Musketeer, and Musketman units all use shoulder-muskets of various unknown make. The icon for the Rifling technology shows an unknown percussion cap rifle.
[[Image:CivIV Janissary.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Janissary, the Ottoman civilization's special unit, armed with an unknown musket.]]
[[Image:CivIV Musketeer.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Musketeer, the French civilization's special unit, armed with an unknown musket.]]
[[Image:CivIV Musketman.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Musketman armed with an unknown musket. Note how these units (as well as the above Musketeers) are left-handed shooters, a rarity in video games.]]
[[Image:CivIV_rifling.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Percussion cap rifle on the icon for the Rifling technology.]]

==Baker Rifle==
The Rifleman unit is armed with an [[Baker Rifle]].
[[Image:BakerRifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Baker Rifle (1801-1837), Caliber - 0.625 inch (15.9 mm)]]
[[Image:CivIV Rifleman.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Rifleman unit aiming their Baker Rifles.]]

==Matchlock Musket==
The Cuirassier unit is armed with [[Matchlock Musket]]s.
[[Image:MatchlockMusket.jpg|thumb|none|500px|European Matchlock musket.]]
[[File:CivIV cuirassier.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Cuirassier unit brandishing Matchlock muskets.]]

==Kabyle Musket==
The Oromo Warrior unit is armed with a [[Kabyle Musket]].
[[Image:Kabyle Musket.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Kabyle musket]]
[[Image:CivIV Oromo.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Oromo Warrior, the Ethiopian civilization's special unit, armed with an Kabyle Musket.]]

==Brown Bess Musket==
The British Redcoat unit wields [[Brown Bess Flintlock Musket]]s.
[[Image:BrownBessInfantry-Musket-1722-1768.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Modern Reproduction "Long Land Pattern" Brown Bess Infantry musket made from 1722-1768- .75 caliber]]
[[Image:CivIV BrownBess.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Redcoat, the British civilization's special unit, guarding an Iron resource, armed with Brown Bess Muskets.]]

==AK-47==
The Marine unit uses [[AK-47]] assault rifles.
[[Image:AK-47.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Type I AK-47, hybrid stamped/milled receiver with prototype slab sided magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:CivIV AK47.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Marine with an AK-47.]]

==AK-103==
In the "Next War" scenario, Automaton units are armed with scoped [[AK-103]]s with foregrips.
[[Image:AK103.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AK-103 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:CivIV ak-103.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Automaton unit armed with the AK-103.]]

==M16A2==
In the "Road to War" scenario, Modern Infantry units are armed with the [[M16A2]].
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:CivIV M16.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Modern Infantry unit armed with the M16A2. Though crudely modeled, the rifles feature the A2-style rounded handguards, A2 sights, heavy barrels, and brass deflectors.]]

==M4A1 Carbine w/ M203==
The American Navy SEAL Unit wields [[M4A1 Carbine]]s with mounted [[M203 Grenade Launcher]]s (which are unusable). The M4s also seem to have optical scopes and suppressors. Unlike most movies and video games, the guns fire nearly as loud as they normally would.
[[Image:Sopmod_m4_m203_06.jpg|450px|thumb|none|M4A1 carbine (5.56x45mm) with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher (40mm)]]
[[Image:CivIV M4.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Navy SEAL, the American civilization's special unit, armed with his M4A1 Carbine. Notice the unusable M203 grenade launcher, suppressor, and crudely modeled optical sight.]]

==FG 42==
In the "Road to War" scenario, German Infantry units are armed with the [[FG 42]] fitted with a Zeiss ZF4 scope.
[[Image:Firearm FG42.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FG 42 - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[Image:CivIV fg42.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The German Infantry unit armed with the FG 42.]]

=Shotguns=
==Custom Remington 870==
In the "Next War" scenario, Cyborg units are armed with [[Remington 870]]. These shotguns are equipped with pistol grips, box magazines, and SPAS-12-style folding stock.
[[Image:Shorty870.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:CivIV shotgun.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Cyborg unit armed with the custom Remington 870.]]

=Machine Guns=
==Vickers MK1==
The Machine Gun unit (based off of British WWI troops) are equipped with [[Vickers MK1 Machine Gun]]s.
[[Image:Vickers gun.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Vickers Mk1 Machine Gun - .303 British]]
[[Image:CivIV Maxim.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Machine Gun unit ready to fire their Vickers machine guns.]]

==Browning M1919==
The Tank, Panzer, Gunship, Transport, and Modern Armor units are all armed with the [[Browning M1919]].
[[Image:M1919A4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Browning M1919A4 - .30-06 Springfield]]
[[Image:CivIV tank.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Tank unit armed with a Browning M1919.]]
[[Image:CivIV panzer.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Panzer unit (the German civilization's special unit) is armed, erroneously, with the Browning M1919.]]
[[Image:CivIV transport.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Transport unit is armed with dual Browning M1919s.]]
[[Image:CivIV gunship.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Gunship unit is armed, erroneously with three Browning M1919s.]]
[[Image:CivIV modernarmor.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Modern Armor unit armed with a Browning M1919.]]

==Browning M2==
The Mobile Artillery and Modern Armor units are armed with the [[Browning M2]].
[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Browning M2HB - .50 BMG (12.7x99mm)]]
[[Image:CivIV mobileartillery.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Mobile Artillery unit (an M109 Paladin) armed with a Browning M2.]]
[[Image:CivIV modernarmor.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Modern Armor unit armed with a Browning M2.]]

==M240C==
The Mobile SAM unit is armed with an [[M240|M240C]].
[[Image:M240C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M240C - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:CivIV mobilesam.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Mobile SAM unit armed with an M240C.]]

==MG42==
In the "Road to War" scenario, Type 97 Chi-Ha tanks are erroneously armed with [[MG42]] machine guns.
[[Image:MG42 Left.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MG42 - 7.92x57mm]]
[[Image:CivIV type97.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Type 97 Chi-Ha Tank unit armed with an MG42.]]

==DShK==
ZTZ-99 tanks in the "Road to War" scenario are erroneously armed with [[DShK]] machine guns.
[[Image:DShK_HMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|DShK - 12.7x108mm]]
[[Image:CivIV type94.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The ZTZ-99 tank armed with a DShK machine gun.]]

=Launchers=
==Panzerschreck==
The Anti-Tank unit wields the [[Panzerschreck]].
[[Image:Tank h5.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Panzerschreck rocket launcher - 88mm]]
[[Image:CivIV Panzerschreck.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The Anti-Tank wielding their Panzerschrecks.]]

==FIM-43 Redeye==
The SAM Infantry unit wield [[FIM-43 Redeye]]s. As their name implies, they use these against aircraft only, opting to use their aforementioned Skorpions against any ground unit.
[[Image:FIM43.jpg‎ |thumb|none|450px|FIM-43 Redeye - 70mm]]
[[Image:CivIV Stinger.JPG|500px|thumb|none|The SAM Infantry with the FIM-43 Redeye.]]

=Grenades=
==Fuse Grenade==
The Grenadier unit will use Fuse Grenades as a primary weapon alongside their sabers.
[[Image:Early grenade.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Grenado]]
[[Image:CivIV grenado.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Grenadier units armed with their grenados.]]

=Artillery=
==Cannon==
The Cannon unit is represented by Napoleonic era cannons.
[[Image:Cannon1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cannon]]
[[Image:CivIV cannon.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Cannon unit defending a hill.]]

==Naval Cannon==
The Caravel, Carrack, Ship of the Line, Privateer, East Indiaman, Galleon, Frigate, and Ironclad units are all equipped with naval cannons.
[[Image:Naval cannon.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Naval Cannon]]
[[Image:CivIV caravel.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Caravel unit's naval cannons.]]
[[Image:CivIV carrack.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Carrack (The Portuguese civilization's special unit) unit's naval cannons.]]
[[Image:CivIV shipoftheline.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Ship of the Line unit's naval cannons.]]
[[Image:CivIV privateer.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Privateer unit's naval cannons.]]
[[Image:CivIV eastindiaman.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The East Indiaman (The Dutch civilization's special unit) unit's naval cannons.]]
[[Image:CivIV galleon.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Galleon unit's naval cannons.]]
[[Image:CivIV frigate.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Frigate unit's naval cannons.]]
[[Image:CivIV ironclad.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Ironclad unit's naval cannons.]]

==LeFH 18 howitzer==

[[Image:CivIV artillery.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Artillery unit.]]

==Bofors 40mm==
[[Image:CivIV antiairgun.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Anti-Air Gun unit. This unit only appears in the "Road to War" scenario.]]

==M3 37mm anti-tank gun==

[[Image:CivIV antitankgun.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Anti-Tank Gun unit. This unit only appears in the "Road to War" scenario.]]

==15cm sFH 18==

[[Image:CivIV heavyartillery.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Heavy Artillery unit. This unit only appears in the "Road to War" scenario.]]

==88mm FlaK 36==

[[Image:CivIV improvedantiair.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The Improved Anti-Air Gun unit. This unit only appears in the "Road to War" scenario.]]

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:War]]

Talk:List of weapons used by U.S. Armed Forces

2017-09-27T06:20:07Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Experimental AA-12? */

Thank you to whoever created this page, I've thought a lot about trying to do a page like this myself, since a lot of people on this site like to point out "That isn't what a solder/officer in such and such military of law enforcement agency would use in real life." Maybe if this page proves to be popular we could do other pages about other agencies. --[[User:AndCA|AndCA]] 22:06, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Your very welcome :) everything on that page took about a month to make due to my schedule (and I'm only 15). I am planning on doing a page about the British and the Russian armed forces but I want to have this done first. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 22:17, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I didn't know the Marines have started using the SCAR H [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:23, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I may have gotten some incorrect info during my research, I'll look into it. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 22:31, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Thank You for doing this, the fact that you are fifteen only makes me have more respect for you.--[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 23:29, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Mate, big respect for you for doing this! Well done! If you need any info on what the British Armed Forces do, please let me know, I can help with that!! Again, proper nice job mate!! [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

::As far as I know the only use by the USMC of the SCAR platform was a variant of the 'L' model during trials for the M27. The H&K 416 was chosen. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:26, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Doesn't the Navy also use the M16A3 variant? [[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] 6:37, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Yes they do, my Seabee buddy's issued weapon is an M16A3 with a 203.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:56, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Are we doing out of service rifles and shotguns as well? Wicked wikipedia gives a complete list if that helps he page.-[[User:Balin21|Balin21]] 12:30, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Of course. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 12:33, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== YES!!! ==

THIS IS AN AWESOME IDEA!!! One that I have been wanting to do for a while. Gets my 100% stamp of approval! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:33, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Glad you like it I just hope this gets done soon so I can work on my next idea. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 08:55, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

When this one is done, how about one for the British Armed Forces, SAS and suchlike? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:25, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

I have been thinking about one for the British I may do one like that next. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 11:32, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
:If you do, don't forget they recently adopted the LMT 7.62 as their new Sniper rifle/DMR [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:47, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
::That they do, but I don't think we have a page for it since it's not shown up in media yet. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:59, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
::No, it hasn't appeared in anything to my knowledge, and we need to emphasize that this page, like all other pages on IMFDb, is for weapons ''used in films, TV, or video games'', not an end-all list of every weapon ever used by an armed force. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:13, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
I read here http://www.americanspecialops.com/special-ops-weapons/glock.php and here http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2011/09/12/delta-force-and-the-glock/ that delta force is now using the Glock 22 as their standard sidearm. Had an old coworker who was an Army MP who confirmed it to. Want to say they started using it in the early years of the war in Iraq.

== SDM-R picture ==

I'm looking for a good shot of the Army's Squad Designated Marksman Rifle, but I can't find one. Can anyone help me out? --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 10:27, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
:I'm reasonably sure it's not that different from the M16A4, aside from subtle differences in the rails (DD M4Rail rather than KAC M5) and differences to the barrel which are hidden by the rails. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:27, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
:Never mind, then; I'll simply remove it on the grounds that's it's not dissimilar from M16A4 model. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 11:33, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
:The SDM-R was a very limited trial program and it was only fielded to one unit before it was canceled and/or withdrawn from service. The SAM-R met a similar end when the Marines opted for the Mark 12 Mod 1 instead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:34, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== P226R ==

Don't the SEALs use the 226 with a rail now? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:01, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

:According to SIG the SEALs currently use a P226 with a Picatinny rail that is not the standard rail found on P226s. In the past they have used folded steel slides without any rail or other outward identifying marks. When they went to the stainless steel slides an anchor was added to be able to easily tell which were the new slides and which were the older model. At some point a rail was added during the use of the stainless slides, which lead to a complaint that not all light attachments worked on it (can't complain about an out of spec rail on a gun without a rail), so the current model was outfitted with a true 1913 picatinny rail. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] 11:02, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

== Page name ==

Should the "firearms" be changed to "weapons", as there are several things on here that I would not call firearms, such as the grenades, mines and launchers. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:15, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

I say go for it if accuracy is the case [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 12:22, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== USMC SOCOM ==

Should the listing of USMC SOCOM be changed to USMC MARSOC since MARSOC is the branch of the USMC that is a part of SOCOM. I think USMC SOCOM just sounds odd because it describes the USMC ''branch'' of SOCOM. This is just my opinion, what do you guys think? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:22, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
:Done.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:59, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:00, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Magazine capacities ==

Great idea Mr.Ice. Anyway, is it OK if I add the various magazine capacities for the firearms with the caliber in parentheses beside it?
:It is already there... Under "Capacity"... And sign your post. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:04, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Colt Rail Gun ==

I think it's been adopted very recently to replace the Kimber ICQB, should it go on the page?--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 06:35, 20 July 2012 (CDT)
:it is already on there as the [[Colt XSE]], it is the same gun as the one pictured except with a desert tan finish and grips. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:49, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

The XSE along with the Kimber are also used by Army Special Forces and 1st SFOD-D. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 21:58, 24 July 2012 (CDT)
:Last time I checked the Special Forces still used M9s. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:56, 25 July 2012 (CDT)

They may use it or have used it but their regular sidearm is a M1911 variant or a Glock. The M9 and M9A1 are standard issue so it isn't uncommon for Special Forces to pick it up and use it once in a while. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 14:10, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
:I'm very interested to see your source on that. Last time I checked the only bit of the US Army to still use 1911s was Delta. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:49, 25 July 2012 (CDT)

In a number of 'Small Arms of the World' books I own along with a book co-written by General Carl Stiner, a former Commander in Cheif of USSOCOM. I would love to see the source of your info. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 17:36, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
:Let's jump straight to the photography then.
:*[http://www.americanspecialops.com/photos/special-forces/special-forces-medic.php Special Forces medic in Afghanistan, 2007]. Note the Beretta holstered on his belt.
:*[http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?114762-United-States-SOF-pics&p=6214829&viewfull=1#post6214829 US Army Special Forces at the Fuerzas Comando 2012 event.] Note the obvious M9 being reloaded in the first photo.
:*[http://www.soc.mil/UNS/Photo/2011/2011/album/slides/3SF_9350.html Special Forces NCO Instructor at the 2011 USASFC Soldier and NCO of the Year Competition]. Note the M9 in his holster.
:*[http://www.soc.mil/UNS/Photo/2010/album/slides/101005-A-Lxxx-001.html Army Special Forces soldiers conduct range training, 2010.] Every single one of them has an M9.
:*[http://www.soc.mil/UNS/Photo/2010/album/slides/100805-A-2913D-194.html Special Forces training at Fort Carson, Colorado. 2010.] Holstered M9s.
:In short, for a weapon not regularly used by US Army Special Forces, there's a lot of images of US Army Special Forces with M9s. Note though that I am only calling you out on your assertion about the 1911; there's plenty of evidence for Glocks in the last year or so. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:46, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Well I can't tell you you're wrong and I will correct what I said and admit they apparently do use it more often then I thought but you can't honestly tell me I'm wrong either when my source material clearly states they do use M1911 variants. We are talking about Special Forces here so what they use is honestly their choice.[[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 13:29, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
:And yet nowhere in the 1200+ images I checked through did I see a single 1911 pattern pistol aside from two presentation pieces. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:35, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Just because they're not there, doesn't mean they don't exist. You can't find everything on the internet. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 13:55, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

:Well, if the 1911 was the standard sidearm of the US Army Special Forces, don't you think there would be a lot of pictures of them with the 1911? When were these books of your's written? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:10, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
::For the record, the General who co-wrote one of the books he cited retired in '93.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:11, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

His retirement date has no relavence. He's former Special Forces and Commander in Chief of USSOCOM, I'm pretty sure his information would be pretty up to date when he wrote the book. The book he co-wrote was published in 2002 and the most recent one I have of the other's is from 2007. And no, I don't think they'd have pictures all over the internet of them, they're Special Forces, and I honestly don't believe he searched through 1200+ photo's of them to gather his info. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 15:37, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

:Okay, there might not be a lot of pictures of the SF, but there is at least 1200+ talked about here, and out of 1200+ not one of them shows the SF soldiers with their supposed "standard sidearm," the 1911. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 16:08, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

And as I stated before, just because it isn't there doesn't mean it doesn't exist. For the record I never stated it was their 'standard issue.' I said it was their regular sidearm. They're Special Forces, they have no 'standard issue.' Lets make this simple, no matter what I say you're not going to believe me, which is fine I know what I know and you know what you know. He can't find a picture of it and I have books that state it, its a discussion that won't end. It's an agree to disagree situation. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 17:35, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

:Well, regular sidearm means that it would be used in large quantities by them and yet we have no photographic evidence of them using the 1911. If we go by the fact that they can use whatever they want, why don't we just list every handgun and say, "There is a chance someone in the military is using one." There is a way to end this discussion, what are the name of these books that you got your info from? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:54, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

[http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/index.php Professionalsoldiers.com] ask them yourselves, they should know what they carry. (Most on there prefer Glocks btw.)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:39, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

:I don't really trust PS, because anyone can go on it and post whatever they want. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 02:20, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

Not necessarily true, you have to be vetted to have certain user names and the "Quiet Professional" tag, they will actually go look through their class lists and etc to find out if a person is who they say they are, and if someone posts BS or w/e they get the boot-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:42, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

:It says in their bulletin board rules page that not every user is a "Quiet Professional," so they could be anybody. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 02:44, 27 July 2012 (CDT)
::I believe the implication here is that the ones with the "Quiet Professional" tag won't be talking out of their arse like regular users. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:51, 27 July 2012 (CDT)
:::Oh, okay, I misunderstood that. Okay, it seems like a much more reliable source to me now. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 05:01, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

== M11 Pistol ==

I wasn't aware that NCIS uses the P228 anymore. I thought they used the P229 DAK. I'm posting this to let you know why I changed it on the main page. Just thought I'd let you know. (By the way, if anyone has any comments, feel free to respond to me.) --[[User:Mormonpowerranger521|Mormonpowerranger521]] 15:30 (CDT)

According to (the ever-accurate, lol) Wikipedia, they no longer use the P228. However, it says that they also use the P239 DAK as well as the P229 DAK. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 19:22, 24 July 2012 (CDT)

== Gun order ==

Right now the guns, particularly the out of service ones, seem to be in a pretty random order. What do people think would be the best way to categorise them by, alphabetically, chronologically, user or notoriety? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:28, 24 July 2012 (CDT)

:Chronologically sounds good, probably from earliest to latest. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 19:30, 24 July 2012 (CDT)

:I agree, it will better in that order. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 20:03, 24 July 2012 (CDT)

:Done. At least for the out of service ones anyway. [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] ([[User talk:Jimmoy|talk]]) 13:25, 30 September 2012 (EDT)

== M4A1 ==
It needs to be notated that the M4A1 is only standard issue to special operations/ and Rangers. The M4 carbine (Semi and burst fire) is the standard rifle for front-line combat arms units in the US Army. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 21:28, 24 July 2012 (CDT)
:Done. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:26, 25 July 2012 (CDT)

== NCIS ==

So this page lists the weapons of the US Armed Forces, like the Army, Navy, Marines, etc. NCIS is a federal agency, not part of the Armed Forces. Should it be removed? --[[User:Mormonpowerranger521|Mormonpowerranger521]] 19:35 (CDT)
:NCIS is part of the Department of the Navy. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 08:35, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
::OK, so I'll go ahead and add CID as well, as it's part of the Army. But should other federal agencies be added, as they are part of the Department of Justice or Homeland Security, and they are also technically part of the US Armed Forces as well? --[[User:Mormonpowerranger521|Mormonpowerranger521]] 16:48 (CDT)
::::The CID doesn't need to be there anyway, as the weapons they use are already listed with the US Army. The only reason the NCIS is listed (if it deserves to be here anyway, my opinion is that it shouldn't as is a federal law enforcement agency and not part of "Armed Forces") is that they use weapons that are not used by the regular Navy. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:56, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
::: Don't forget OSI (Office of Special Investigations), the Air Force equivelant. On an unrelated not, why would EOD use the Mk18? It's not like they need super-short weapons for CQB, they dispose of bombs.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 17:52, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
::::EOD in most forces tend to use shorter weapons than regular infantry as they only carry weapons for personal defence, and the lighter weight of smaller weapons is a plus when you have to carry additional specialist equipment. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:56, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
:::So the question is, I guess, do we keep NCIS, and by that reasoning, add a whole bunch more federal agencies (DHS, FBI, ATF, etc.), or do we remove it as it technically isn't part of the "Armed Forces?" I vote remove. --[[User:Mormonpowerranger521|Mormonpowerranger521]] 19:02 (CDT)
:::::NCIS is a law enforcement agency of the Department of the Navy. Most of its special agents are civilian GS-1811 criminal investigators, however some of them are reservists or active duty military. The investigating agents of Army CID are either active duty enlisted special agents or active duty Warrant Officer special agents. Air Force OSI agents can be civilians, enlisted airmen, or Air Force commissioned officers. The Coast Guard Investigative service employs active duty enlisted personnel, along with reservist Chief Warrant Officers and civilians as special agents. --[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] ([[User talk:L.J. Gibbs|talk]]) 18:06, 5 April 2013 (EDT)

== SIG P239 ==

I have read somewhere that the P239 was issued by DEVGRU to plain clothes operators, does anyone know if this is true? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:43, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
:I'm looking at a page right now that [http://www.americanspecialops.com/special-ops-weapons/sig-p239.php says the same thing], but there's no way to confirm it since it doesn't give a source. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:48, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
::That's actually the page I read it on, but I didn't trust it without a source. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:51, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
::Certainly, SIG aren't pimping it the same way that they do with the P226.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:53, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

== Colt XSE Image ==

Is it worth replacing the Colt XSE image with [[:File:ColtRailGun.jpg|this one?]] Since that's the actual weapon being adopted, not the XSE. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:57, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

:I think we should replace the current image with this one, it's more accurate. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:08, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

:What about this image? --[[User:Mormonpowerranger521|Mormonpowerranger521]] 13:51, 30 July 2012 (CTD)
[[Image:Colt rail gun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Rail Gun - .45ACP]]
That is no closer match than the stainless one, as the M45 will have a tan finish. I was the one who made the entry with the XSE image, the reason being that it was the only image on here and I didn't want to add an image of a gun that hadn't appeared in anything yet. But as someone has now uploaded the tan one, might as well use it. Also, the reason I originally had it listed as an XSE is because that it what we currently list the railed frame XSE (which is what this gun is) as. Colt currently markets it as the "Colt Rail Gun" but it was originally called the "Colt XSE Rail Gun". As it seems that Colt have now split them, I suppose it might be an idea to split them on the 1911 page into "XSE" and "Rail Gun" sections. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:18, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

== Confederate States of America ==

Insert "south shall rise again joke". Don't want to be technically but This page is for the US Armed forces, not the CSA armed forces [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:45, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

== Late 19th Century Special Operations Firearms? ==

This has nothing to do with this page per se, but of all the pages here this one is most fitting. I have been wondering what American "Special Forces" or what you would like to call them, would have used in the 1870/1880's?

If some soldiers/agents/assassains would been sent on a specific important mission, what firearms would they have used? Winchester 1873's? Sharps Carbines? Springfield Trapdoor Rifles? Spencer Repeating Rifles?

Would they use Shotguns? And what Handguns?

Thanks in Advance!--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 10:06, 12 September 2012 (EDT)
:Short answer what people would consider American "Special Forces" didn't exist in the 1870/1880's. The closest thing to that would have been the Calvary, or maybe Buffalo Solders, both of which would have used the carbine version of whatever rifle was standard issue (I think the Trapdoor Springfield, but in the early 1870's it could have been something else). The prevailing strategy of that time period was still to have troops gather en mass when fighting each other. The modern idea of special forces comes from the First South African/Second Boer War (1899-1902). In this conflict the British saw the the effectiveness of the Boer Commandos in reeking havoc on there numerically superior forces. Later the British implemented the strategy within there own forces, to the point where they even borrowed the name of those specialized solders from there adversary ie commando (Boer=white South African of Dutch decent). [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] ([[User talk:Dover500|talk]]) 11:06, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

How about a hypotethical situation then? If ever there was a national threat coming from a single concentrated group of people, who obviously had no army, and soldiers were sent to eliminate them and everyone else at whatever place they resided, would there just be ordinary soldiers with Trapdoor Rifles sent there then?

Also, while not related to the army, what would the Pinkertons have used around that time?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 11:33, 12 September 2012 (EDT)
:In that hypothetical situation Calvary would be the first group sent in, most likely with light artillery for increased firepower. The main firearms would be Trapdoor carbines and colt SAA or Smith and Wesson model 3 revolvers. For the tactics that would be used, look at the conflicts in the midwest involving Native Americans, as that is rather close to the situation which you are describing. Pinkertons were known to use mainly shotguns and revolvers, as they tended to get in conflicts at close range, but as to specifics of which type of each I do not know. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] ([[User talk:Dover500|talk]]) 12:26, 12 September 2012 (EDT)
::If you take the 7th Cavalry at the battle of Little Bighorn in 1876 as an example, they were generally armed with 1873 Trapdoor carbines and carried a pair of Colt SAA revolvers (sabred were not carried to cut down on weight and noise). The officers would have also potentially have carried personally purchased weapons which they would also use for hunting, such as Remington Rolling Blocks and Sharp's rifles along with shotguns and possibly Winchester 1873s. Custer himself was though to have personally carried a pair of custom Webley RICs and a sporterised .50 Remington Rolling Block rifle. Scouts would have carried a variety of weaponry, often having both a single shot "buffalo" rifle like a Sharp's for long range shooting along with a repeating rifle such as a Henry, Spencer or Winchester, plus whatever sidearms they had. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:03, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, that is very informative. Were Henry's and Spencers still used at that time? I thought Winchester was all the rage then.

If no one has anything else too add then i have gotten enough answers, very helpful of both of you.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 14:08, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

== Experimental AA-12? ==

AA-12 shotgun should have been undergoing assessments in USMC since 2004... Are they being put into service? Should I add the AA-12s in the page?? --[[User:S9771773G|S9771773G]] ([[User talk:S9771773G|talk]]) 02:32, 29 September 2012 (EDT)

Oh no its alright， I have yet to see the Experimental section at the bottom of the page... Im just wondering if AA-12 has already enter service? --[[User:S9771773G|S9771773G]] ([[User talk:S9771773G|talk]]) 02:34, 29 September 2012 (EDT)

I doubt it. A full-auto shotgun is really a niche item. Just ''one'' shot with a 12 gauge will hit a human target like a sledgehammer at CQB ranges, full auto in the package seems like overkill. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:22, 6 April 2013 (EDT)
: Should the AA-12 be placed in the "cancelled" section of the Experimental category? Outside of one picture of a Marine firing one back when they "tested" (IE, had fun at the range for a hour) some back in 2004, I can't find ''anything'' to support the idea that the AA-12 is being tested--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 21:50, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
::Apparently the Marine Warfighting Lab messed around with it for a while, but [http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/03/robert-farago/aa-12-developer-the-u-s-military-isbrain-dead/ given the designer went on record in 2010 moaning that the military wasn't interested in it], they probably weren't interested in it. Also got to love how he compares the practical rate of fire of the M16 and M249 with the cyclic rate of fire of the AA-12 (counting pellets as bullets), and doesn't know the difference between a projectile and a round. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 22:03, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
:::Sounds exactly like the kind of guy that would design the AA-12 and think it's a completely practical service firearm.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 02:20, 27 September 2017 (EDT)

== HK45C Designation ==

I've seen on a few sites that the HK45C is designated the Mk 24 Mod 0 by the SEALs, I thought this was the designation of the P226. Are these sites wrong or is this the real designation and the SIG is actually the Mk 25 Mod 0? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:36, 5 October 2012 (EDT)

I wasn't aware it had a designation to start with. Although people do seem to be running under the assumption that because SIG called their new SEAL P226 replica pistol the Mk25, that must therefore also be the Real Steel designation. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 05:21, 6 October 2012 (EDT)

:I was going off of [http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-weapons/hk45c-us-navy-seal/2/ this page.] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 10:13, 6 October 2012 (EDT)
:Personally I think the designations make more sense the other way around, since then it goes in adoption order (Mk.23 (SOCOM), Mk.24 (SIG), Mk.25 (HK45CT)). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 11:06, 6 October 2012 (EDT)
::Wasn't the SIG adopted in the 80's and the Mk 23 Mod 0 adopted in the mid-90's? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 11:38, 6 October 2012 (EDT)
::Whoops. >.< [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 11:44, 6 October 2012 (EDT)
:::The services' designation systems aren't as organized as some like to think. Psychological warfare! LOL [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:16, 6 April 2013 (EDT)

I sent a message to my source in NSW regarding designations of both the P226 and HK45 and what he told me was that the old-spec P226s ''were'' previously designated MK24 Mod 0, but are no longer type classified anymore (being referred to as simply "P226"). The current P226s with the mil-std rail are indeed designated as MK25 Mod 0, while the MK24 designation now refers to the HK45. He added that the MK24 Mod 0 designation has been interchangeable for a while. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 11:11, 12 April 2014 (EDT)

== MSR ==

[http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2013/03/08/official-psr-contract-award/ Seems the Remington MSR is the winner of the Precision Sniper Rifle contract.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 18:59, 4 April 2013 (EDT)
:Adding it to the page. Edit: Hope that's good enough. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:16, 6 April 2013 (EDT)

== Mk 12 ==
The US Marines should be among the users of the Mk 12. They use the Mod 1 version [http://www.silencertests.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=79591&view=next]. Scroll down, you can see a whole gob of pics of them in action. And these are rank and file, not MARSOC. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:16, 6 April 2013 (EDT)

== US Army use of M16A4s ==
This is a response to an edit removing the US Army from the user list for the M16A4. Here are two images of Soldiers with them in theater [http://i38.tinypic.com/33bg2fd.jpg][http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/2007/03/05/3064/army.mil-2007-03-05-111046.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:46, 16 May 2014 (EDT)

== SCAR-L Still Used by 75th Ranger Regiment ==

[https://www.facebook.com/190158030999896/photos/pb.190158030999896.-2207520000.1400293623./823589834323376/?type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-frc1%2Ft31.0-8%2F1912479_823589834323376_1257661075_o.jpg&smallsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-frc1%2Ft1.0-9%2F1904115_823589834323376_1257661075_n.jpg&size=2048%2C1524&fbid=823589834323376 SCAR-L]
While most of them are using M4A1's with SOPMOD Block II, a few are still using the SCAR-L. This photo was taken in 2014.~James Woods

:That's actually a SCAR-H with a 5.56 conversion kit. Look at the length of the ejection port and design of the lower. See that recessed area behind the magwell? SCAR-L lowers don't have that. As such, I've added 5.56 as one of the calibers under the SCAR-H entry. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:56, 19 January 2017 (EST)

== M320 Edits ==
I moved the M320 to "in service", since it's no longer experimental. The XM320 version remains in the experimental section since it's different from the final model. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:53, 21 December 2014 (EST)

== Browning Hi-Power? ==

So Browning HP has been used by U.S covert operations and special forces. Does that count?
Supposedly, they were utilized by U.S. Office of Strategic Services (OSS) taskforces during WWII (most likely the Canadian Inglis variety) and during Vietnam war they were used on an unofficial basis by US Reconnaissance and Special Forces units. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 06:16, 21 December 2014 (EST)

== No M14 ==

Is there any particular reason why actual M14s aren't listed anywhere on the page? There are the various modernized variants ala the M39 EMR listed but actual M14s used from the 50s even to today aren't present on the page at all. Is there any reason for this? --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 11:38, 21 December 2014 (EST)

: Hmm, interesting, it does indeed seem that the M14/M14E1 isn't listed in the Out-Of-Service rifles section at all.. Why I don't know, but I think that might be some kind of oversight perhaps. Either way, should rectify that. As for the above comment about the Hi-Power, well, it might qualify for inclusion if one could find any close time it was used perhaps. I'd just add these entries but I'm gonna leave it to the folks who generally handle these pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 13:45, 21 December 2014 (EST)

:: The M14 isn't actually out of service... the U.S. Navy still uses some semi-automatic M14s as the "M14 SMUD" (Standoff Munitions Disruptor.) It's also used ceremonially - as are the M1 Garand and M1903 Springfield, which might be worth listing on the page as well. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 16:36, 21 December 2014 (EST)

:::I think the US Navy also still uses the M14 for line launching, due to the fact that the 7.62x51mm blank creates is higher pressure than the 5.56x45mm so it can thrown the line farther. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:32, 21 December 2014 (EST)

== Updating the page ==

Should I/we update the page to include the presently used M14, M14E2 (used from 1963-1966), M21, M14 DMR (replaced by M39/MK11), HK33/'T223' (used by SEALs in Vietnam), & Colt Model 607 (used briefly in 1966 but still noteworthy.)

I also believe adding the M1 Garand, M1903 Springfield, M1917 Enfield, and M14 to the "In Service" list under JROTC might be worthwhile because they ARE still seen in these military units despite only being (for the most part) ceremonial weapons.
--[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 16:58, 31 December 2014 (EST)

== M24 ==

Why is the M24A2 and A3 not listed, are they not actually in service? [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 16:54, 11 January 2015 (EST)

: Page is incomplete - it's missing even more significant guns like the M14 as well --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 20:48, 11 January 2015 (EST)

::Out of idle curiousity, is the "30" for an Uzi because of historical military reluctance to fully load 32-round magazines, or just a straightforward error? I know some units prefer to load MP5s with 30 so they can put in a new mag without locking the bolt open, and back in WW2 issued mags for things like the Sten and MP40 would have 30 or even 28 rounds in them to spare the springs, IIRC they also did that with 28 or 26 in the Bren. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:50, 11 January 2015 (EST)

:::I assume that the Uzi thing is just an error, I have never heard of a particular problem with the Uzi mags that requires downloading. I know that this was the case with the Sten, MP40 and Bren though. I believe that the reason with the first two is mainly due to the single feed causing magazine jams at full spring pressure, whilst the Bren suffered due to the rimmed .303 cartridge tending to bite into the feed lips with full spring pressure and not go fully into battery. This was an officially recognised issue with the Bren, even to the point that when Britain played around with the idea of pre-packaged disposable chargers for the Bren they were only for 14 rounds, so 2 would only fill a magazine up to 28. Lastly, I wouldn't really say that the MP5 uses a 31 round magazine which is downloaded to 30, more like it is a 30 round mag that you can technically fit a 31st round into but the gun stops fully functioning. As far as I know H&K have always given the spec of the magazine as 30 (well they do now anyway), and the manuals list it as a 30 round capacity as well. Hell, I could fit 31 rounds in a STANAG SA80 magazine and load it by just hammering the bolt into battery, but I wouldn't call that a 30 round magazine. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:33, 12 January 2015 (EST)

== Ruger Service Six ==
Added the [[Ruger Security Six|Ruger Service Six]]. It was issued by all the branches from approximately 1977 - 1993 when the Beretta M9 and the Sig Sauer M11 replaced all revolvers still in use. It was mainly issued to the various branches military police and civilian gate guards and was in use at the same time the Smith & Wesson Model 15 was being used. I can recall seeing some Air Force pilots carrying the Service Six as well in the Eighties when I was a very young private in the Army National Guard. The Defense Department stopped purchasing the M15 in the early seventies (approximately) so by the later part of the decade the M15's were getting pretty worn out. The Service Six served as a supplement. It was actually cheaper than the S&W and a bit more rugged (and that hurts to say because I'm a die hard Smith & Wesson fan). that's important when talking about firearms used by military personnel. I remember treating the various M16's pretty rough so you can only imagine how hard they would treat revolvers. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 11:39, 12 January 2015 (EST)
: Interesting, and good to know. I thought I heard of Rugers being used but I assumed it was more concurrent with S&Ws rather than a semi-replacement/supplement. Yeah it's tough to hear they were cheaper and just as good if not better (tougher) but it is what it is. I gotta say the Ruger Security/Service/Speed Six line looks like a nice set of wheelguns to me as well, and I too share your feeling about S&W. Anyway, good to have more detailed info on this. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 12:58, 12 January 2015 (EST)

::A few months ago when I purchased my Smith & Wesson Model 19 snubnose there was also a stainless steel Ruger Security Six 4" for sale. It was sitting right next to the Model 19 and was about $50.00 cheaper. I had been looking for a M19 snubbie for several years, but I had to make a decision as it was. That Security Six was a pretty nice revolver, but I wanted the M19 snubbie more. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 22:11, 13 January 2015 (EST)

::: Bah! How can you decide in that instance!? That said, more I've pondered it, the more I'd love to get a S&W 19/66 Snub myself.. It just seems like a nice size for a slightly-larger CCW wheelgun, more a waist or shoulder carry piece. But that's another discussion. Anyway, I understand your whim taking over, being a S&W man, but I think you couldn't have made a ''bad'' choice there. Anyway, again, good of you to provide that info. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:52, 13 January 2015 (EST)

== National Guard weapons ==

Should we include weapons used by the National Guard, such as the [[Heckler & Koch UMP|UMP40]]? [[User:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|Hi, My Name Is GameZone]] ([[User talk:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|talk]]) 15:51, 10 February 2015 (EST)

Do you have proof that they use it? I looked around, but didn't find anything. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:42, 10 February 2015 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure that the National Guard just use the same weapons as the regular forces don't they? Traditionally slightly older weapons but I do not believe that this is really the case any more. Are you perhaps mixing up National Guard and the Border Patrol? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:15, 11 February 2015 (EST)

== M9 Replacement ==

It's going to be a Sig P320 variant: http://soldiersystems.net/2017/01/19/stop-the-presses-sig-wins-modular-handgun-system/ Thoughts? --[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] ([[User talk:John Ryder|talk]]) 01:14, 20 January 2017 (EST)

:Well, it doesn't look like they'll follow through on the "we need to upgrade from 9mm for our soldier's future handguns" spiel they made earlier. Having said that, the P320 should have a larger frame size available to accomodate its .45 ACP chambering, so the option should be there if they ever need to change away from 9mm caliber for these handguns. SIG-Sauer already offers a version of its P220 handgun in 10mm using that handgun's .45 ACP frame size. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:46, 20 January 2017 (EST)

::SIG offers the P320 in 9mm, .40, and .45, among other calibers, so it could still happen. The articles I've read all stated that the Army hasn't announced the official caliber(s) yet. Honestly, though, the fact that SOF almost universally prefer 9mm shows that it does the job. It's simply a matter of FMJ ball ammo being shit. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 10:08, 20 January 2017 (EST)

:::I can't imagine they'll standardize the gun in another caliber. The .45 ACP variant has a rather low capacity, is (generally) a less effective penetrator than the 9mm, and is also more expensive (let alone the fact that they'd have to entirely rebuy all of their ammo.) .40 S&W again has expense concerns, and is also less effective with a suppressor than either .45 ACP (the king of suppressed pistol rounds) or 9x19mm, which is apparently a big concern for the Army with how much they insisted it use one. .357 SIG definitely wouldn't happen, obviously. They might equip themselves to retool some of the existing guns for specialized purposes, but on a large scale it doesn't make sense. And keep in mind that a lot of the SFs and units that really need specialized pistols have probably already had one (or two, or ten) designs of their own and rarely (if ever) used the M9 to begin with. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 10:43, 21 January 2017 (EST)

:::: Hate to throw a wrench in a rather good discussion, but is the M17(The P320's supposed designation) actually replacing the M9 or more? We have it listed as replacing the P228, but there are both full length and compact models. Do we know any more on what it is really replacing or no? --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 00:44, 22 January 2017 (EST)

:::::Both. The full size is replacing the M9 and the compact is replacing the M11. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:17, 30 January 2017 (EST)

== Moving old experimental guns ==

In my personal opinion, old experimental guns that were never adopted (like the XM29 or .45 Luger) or only used on a small scale (like the early M16 special variants) should just be moved to the 'Out of Service' sections of their particular weapon type. I feel like the "Experimental" section makes more sense for guns that are actually currently being tested, because as it is it looks very clogged up. With that you could also reasonably fit things like the XM25 and P320 which are due for adoption but haven't technically been procured in any actual units while still having the page look clean. But that's just how I feel. Thoughts? --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 10:49, 21 January 2017 (EST)
:I don't think so. If you move them to the other section above, then it would be misleading and could imply that they were used as actual service weapons, which is not the case. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 11:16, 21 January 2017 (EST)

== M40A6 ==
The M40A6 isn't a ''true'' MSR, they're just replacing the stocks. The USMC is retaining the same Remington short-action in 7.62 NATO, probably much to the chagrin of Scout Snipers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:31, 30 January 2017 (EST)

== How designation work? ==

Well, I find it strange. Sometimes they are logical like the M4, which is the carbine adopted after the M3. Other like M9 or M136, or M1014 instead didnt. How does the designation sistem work? And what mean the -A in the improved version?--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 05:16, 19 July 2017 (EDT)

He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-26T19:54:25Z

BeloglaviSup: /* PKT */

{{Infobox Movie
|name = Arxada qalmış gələcək
|picture = Arxada qalmis gelecek poster.JPG
|caption = ''Original Poster''
|country = [[Image:AZE.jpg|25px]] Azerbaijan
|director = Rüfat Asadov
|date= 2005
|language = Azerbaijani Armenian Russian
|studio= Azerbaijanfilm
|distributor=
|character1=Malik
|actor1=Fuad Poladov
|character2=Səməd
|actor2=Agamehdi Abidov
|character3=Səməd's mother
|actor3=Azərin
|character4=Ağaəli
|actor4=Abbas Gahramanov
|character5=Amin
|actor5=Omur Nagiyev
|character6=Albert
|actor6=Parviz Mamedrzaev
|character7=Rəşid
|actor7=Mikail Mikailov
|character8=Mariya
|actor8=Leyla Shahvelieva
|character9=Shmarov
|actor9=Yuri Baliev
|character10=Gurgen
|actor10=Aydin Aliyev
}}

'''Arxada qalmış gələcək''' is the 2005 Azerbaijan antiwar fantasy drama, set during the end of Nagorno-Karabakh War. Young boy, named Səməd, who is a refugee from Aghdam and and grew in the refugees camp, fantastically travelled to the 1994 year. The defeat of Azerbaijan in the war was inevitable, but the government tries to did last attempt to take the initiative and send a group of soldiers to the doomed to failure the mission: attempting to destroy Armenian air base in Nagorno-Karabakh.

''PC''. This film was filmed in pale tones, whis a medium resolution, to emphasize a tragic fate of young boy appeared in the hell of war. The doubling of the image isn't film deffect, but an art reception.

{{Film Title}}
__TOC__ 

=Pistols=
==Makarov PM==
Malik's (Fuad Poladov) duty sidearm is the [[Makarov PM]]. Russian mercenary, named Shmarov (Yuri Baliev) and Armenian commander Gurgen (Aydin Aliyev) both carry the [[Makarov PM]] in holsters.
[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Russian '''Makarov PM''' - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Malik checks his pistol.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 1 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 1 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Malik reloads his sidearm.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Shmarov relax after long travel, pistol in holster.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 2 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Gurgen (at the left) with the holstered pistol.]]

=Rifles=
==SVD Dragunov==
Amin (Omur Nagiyev) carry [[SVD Dragunov]] throughout the movie.
[[Image:SVD Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SVD Dragunov sniper rifle - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 3 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Amin (at the left) with the rifle.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 3 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Amin (at the left) with the rifle on the shoulder.]]

==AK-74==
Albert (Parviz Mamedrzaev), Ağaəli (Abbas Gahramanov) and Rəşid (Mikail Mikailov) uses [[AK-74]] rifles. Armenian soldiers can be seen armed with the [[AK-74]]s as well.
[[Image:AK-74 NTW 12 92.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-74 - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifles 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promo shot. Rəşid (far left) and Albert (far right) with the rifles..]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Albert with the rifle on the sling. The buttstock is seen.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 1 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Albert puts his rifle on the ground.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Rəşid carry his rifle.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 2 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Rəşid covers...]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 2 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...during the shotout with Armenian soldiers.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ağaəli puts his rifle to the tree.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 7 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Armenian soldiers with the rifles.]]

==AKS-74==
[[AKS-74]]s can be briefly seen during the archive footage.
[[Image:Aks-74.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74 with Bakelite magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 5 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==AK-style Rifles==
An [[AK]]-style rifles can be briefly seen during the archive footage.
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 6 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 6 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 6 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

=Machine Guns=
==RPK-74==
Ağaəli (Abbas Gahramanov) uses bipod equipped, standard light machine gun of the ex-Soviet republics, at the several scenes.
[[Image:Soviet_RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Soviet RPK-74 - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifles 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promo shot. Ağaəli with the RPK at the center.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ağaəli with the same firearm on the shoulder.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Another view of the same scene.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ağaəli carry his light machine gun. Note the very long barrel.]]

==PKT==
[[PKT]] machine gun can be seen mounted on the MT-LB personnel carrier during the archive footage.
[[Image:Machine gun PKT.jpg|thumb|400px|none|PKT machine gun with 250-round ammo drum - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MT-LB personnel carrier armed with a 7.62 mm PKT machine gun.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|7.62mm coaxial PKT machine gun is a coaxial addition to the main 30mm 2A42 Shipunov of the ubiquitous BMP-2.]]

==Shipunov 2A42==
[[Shipunov 2A42]] autocannon can be seen mounted on the BMP-2 during the archive footage.
[[Image:Shipunov 2A42.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Shipunov 2A42 automatic cannon - 30x165mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BMP-2 showcasing the armament encased in a turret with a 30mm 2A42 autocannon and 7.62mm coaxial PKTM machine gun.]]

=Trivia=
==Archival Footage==
Several types of armored vehicles can be seen during the archive footage.
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BMP-2 showcasing the armament encased in a turret with a 30mm 2A42 autocannon and 7.62mm coaxial PKT machine gun.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MT-LB personnel carrier armed with a 7.62 mm PKT machine gun.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Another view of the same MT-LB personnel carrier. '''UB-16-57UM'''(P) is seen.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Five inner tubes sticking out of the forward cone...]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...the 16 rocket tubes...]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...and the narrowing of the back end help to ID it as...]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...'''UB-16-57UM'''.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek SAU 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BM-21 Grad rocket artillery engaging a distant target.]]

==Combat planes==
Armenian air force uses MiG-25PU/RU (known under it's NATO moniker '''Foxbat-C''') interceptors in combat roles. Unlike it's successor MiG-31 (christened by NATO '''Foxhound'''), MiG-25 is a clear product of the Cold War interceptor paradigm armed exclusively with air-to-air and anti-radiation missiles, as such it has no internal guns.
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek plane 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Judging by the bumpy notch over the cockpit, this is two-seat conversion trainer aircraft.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek plane 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Main difference between PU and RU is that the former is an interceptor trainer and the later is a reconnaissance trainer fitted with a MiG-25R navigational system. There is no outward distinction between the two trainer variants.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Drama]]
[[Category:Fantasy]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:Azerbaijan Produced]]

He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-26T19:52:34Z

BeloglaviSup:

{{Infobox Movie
|name = Arxada qalmış gələcək
|picture = Arxada qalmis gelecek poster.JPG
|caption = ''Original Poster''
|country = [[Image:AZE.jpg|25px]] Azerbaijan
|director = Rüfat Asadov
|date= 2005
|language = Azerbaijani Armenian Russian
|studio= Azerbaijanfilm
|distributor=
|character1=Malik
|actor1=Fuad Poladov
|character2=Səməd
|actor2=Agamehdi Abidov
|character3=Səməd's mother
|actor3=Azərin
|character4=Ağaəli
|actor4=Abbas Gahramanov
|character5=Amin
|actor5=Omur Nagiyev
|character6=Albert
|actor6=Parviz Mamedrzaev
|character7=Rəşid
|actor7=Mikail Mikailov
|character8=Mariya
|actor8=Leyla Shahvelieva
|character9=Shmarov
|actor9=Yuri Baliev
|character10=Gurgen
|actor10=Aydin Aliyev
}}

'''Arxada qalmış gələcək''' is the 2005 Azerbaijan antiwar fantasy drama, set during the end of Nagorno-Karabakh War. Young boy, named Səməd, who is a refugee from Aghdam and and grew in the refugees camp, fantastically travelled to the 1994 year. The defeat of Azerbaijan in the war was inevitable, but the government tries to did last attempt to take the initiative and send a group of soldiers to the doomed to failure the mission: attempting to destroy Armenian air base in Nagorno-Karabakh.

''PC''. This film was filmed in pale tones, whis a medium resolution, to emphasize a tragic fate of young boy appeared in the hell of war. The doubling of the image isn't film deffect, but an art reception.

{{Film Title}}
__TOC__ 

=Pistols=
==Makarov PM==
Malik's (Fuad Poladov) duty sidearm is the [[Makarov PM]]. Russian mercenary, named Shmarov (Yuri Baliev) and Armenian commander Gurgen (Aydin Aliyev) both carry the [[Makarov PM]] in holsters.
[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Russian '''Makarov PM''' - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Malik checks his pistol.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 1 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 1 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Malik reloads his sidearm.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Shmarov relax after long travel, pistol in holster.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 2 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Gurgen (at the left) with the holstered pistol.]]

=Rifles=
==SVD Dragunov==
Amin (Omur Nagiyev) carry [[SVD Dragunov]] throughout the movie.
[[Image:SVD Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SVD Dragunov sniper rifle - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 3 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Amin (at the left) with the rifle.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 3 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Amin (at the left) with the rifle on the shoulder.]]

==AK-74==
Albert (Parviz Mamedrzaev), Ağaəli (Abbas Gahramanov) and Rəşid (Mikail Mikailov) uses [[AK-74]] rifles. Armenian soldiers can be seen armed with the [[AK-74]]s as well.
[[Image:AK-74 NTW 12 92.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-74 - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifles 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promo shot. Rəşid (far left) and Albert (far right) with the rifles..]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Albert with the rifle on the sling. The buttstock is seen.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 1 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Albert puts his rifle on the ground.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Rəşid carry his rifle.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 2 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Rəşid covers...]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 2 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...during the shotout with Armenian soldiers.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ağaəli puts his rifle to the tree.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 7 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Armenian soldiers with the rifles.]]

==AKS-74==
[[AKS-74]]s can be briefly seen during the archive footage.
[[Image:Aks-74.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74 with Bakelite magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 5 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==AK-style Rifles==
An [[AK]]-style rifles can be briefly seen during the archive footage.
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 6 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 6 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 6 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

=Machine Guns=
==RPK-74==
Ağaəli (Abbas Gahramanov) uses bipod equipped, standard light machine gun of the ex-Soviet republics, at the several scenes.
[[Image:Soviet_RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Soviet RPK-74 - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifles 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promo shot. Ağaəli with the RPK at the center.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ağaəli with the same firearm on the shoulder.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Another view of the same scene.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ağaəli carry his light machine gun. Note the very long barrel.]]

==PKT==
[[PKT]] machine gun can be seen mounted on the MT-LB personnel carrier during the archive footage.
[[Image:Machine gun PKT.jpg|thumb|400px|none|PKT machine gun with 250-round ammo drum - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MT-LB personnel carrier armed with a 7.62 mm PKT machine gun.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BMP-2 showcasing the armament encased in a turret with a 30mm 2A42 autocannon and 7.62mm coaxial PKTM machine gun.]]

==Shipunov 2A42==
[[Shipunov 2A42]] autocannon can be seen mounted on the BMP-2 during the archive footage.
[[Image:Shipunov 2A42.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Shipunov 2A42 automatic cannon - 30x165mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BMP-2 showcasing the armament encased in a turret with a 30mm 2A42 autocannon and 7.62mm coaxial PKTM machine gun.]]

=Trivia=
==Archival Footage==
Several types of armored vehicles can be seen during the archive footage.
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BMP-2 showcasing the armament encased in a turret with a 30mm 2A42 autocannon and 7.62mm coaxial PKT machine gun.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MT-LB personnel carrier armed with a 7.62 mm PKT machine gun.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Another view of the same MT-LB personnel carrier. '''UB-16-57UM'''(P) is seen.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Five inner tubes sticking out of the forward cone...]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...the 16 rocket tubes...]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...and the narrowing of the back end help to ID it as...]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...'''UB-16-57UM'''.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek SAU 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BM-21 Grad rocket artillery engaging a distant target.]]

==Combat planes==
Armenian air force uses MiG-25PU/RU (known under it's NATO moniker '''Foxbat-C''') interceptors in combat roles. Unlike it's successor MiG-31 (christened by NATO '''Foxhound'''), MiG-25 is a clear product of the Cold War interceptor paradigm armed exclusively with air-to-air and anti-radiation missiles, as such it has no internal guns.
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek plane 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Judging by the bumpy notch over the cockpit, this is two-seat conversion trainer aircraft.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek plane 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Main difference between PU and RU is that the former is an interceptor trainer and the later is a reconnaissance trainer fitted with a MiG-25R navigational system. There is no outward distinction between the two trainer variants.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Drama]]
[[Category:Fantasy]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:Azerbaijan Produced]]

Talk:He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-26T19:51:28Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Help to ID the missile launcher */

== English Title ==

'''Arxada qalmış gələcək''' is the temporary name of this page. I absolutely don't know Azerbaijani language, so, I can't translate it's title to English. [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6253322/?ref_=ttfc_fc_tt IMDB] doesn't contain English title. So, I leave this title for discussion about the better title, than it should be renamed. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 17:59, 24 September 2017 (EDT)
: Google translate makes it as 'It's coming back' in English. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 01:22, 25 September 2017 (EDT)
::As one can see, the title is translated to other languages as "Взлётная полоса" (Russian), "Pas startowy" (Polish), so I guess that the proper English translation would be "Runway" (or maybe "Airstrip"). But this is translation of another title of the movie, "Uçuş xətti", while "Arxada qalmış gələcək" means something like "It will be left behind" (google translates so). BTW, a good promo image in [https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BC_%C2%AB%D0%92%D0%B7%D0%BB%D1%91%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B0%C2%BB.jpg Wikipedia]. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 10:37, 25 September 2017 (EDT)
:::In fact, ''Взлётная полоса'' is a licensed Russian title, which doesn't direct translation of original (probably, due the original title isn't optimal for anti-war drama), like Die Hard was licensed in Russia as Крепкий орешек. The ''Uçuş xətti'' is a reverce translate of Russian title, and, it had never uses in Azerbaijan. I also guess, that Polish and Ukrainian wiki just translated Russian page (possibly due the unknowing of Azerbaijani language). [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 11:34, 25 September 2017 (EDT)
:Now I return to the country and have eccess to PC. I guess, that this movie is licensed in Russia under the ''Взлётная полоса'', because the directional translate of original title may be did non correct association for Russian speaking audience: it create some effect of science fiction, while the movie depict a tragic fate of a young boy in the hell of war. The original Azerbaijani title of this movie is "It will be left behind", due the main hero (Səməd) traveled to the past (ten years ago). [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 16:54, 25 September 2017 (EDT)

== Norinco rifles in Azerbaijan? ==

The screenshots are a bit too grainy, so excuse me if I'm making a preemptive assumption, but wouldn't it be more logical if ''Type 56'' and ''NDM-86'' were Soviet manufactured ''AKM'' and ''SVD'' rifles? Unlike movies filmed over the other side of the iron curtain which had to get creative (or more often, just not) with their baddy Ruskie firearms, ex-Soviet republics had direct access to what laid around in their armories at the time. In [http://www.imfdb.org/images/9/9b/Arxada_qalmis_gelecek_rifle_4_3.jpg one screenshot] for example, the Type 56 is an AK-74 (judging by the 5,56 Bakelite magazine and the barely identifiable muzzle brake), in fact. Is there any concrete reason to assume these would be Chinese manufacture contrary to domestic ex-Soviet one I could be completely overshooting? Pun not intended, ''I swear!''

Another thing of note, Yuri Baliev and Aydin Aliyev's pistol holsters are old, leather [http://www.ebay.com/itm/Russian-Soviet-9x18-Makarov-Pistol-Holster-Brown-Leather-W-Cleaning-Rod-/371218798266 Makarov holsters]. And while we can't prove that definitively, I am pretty certain no one other model could be in there, bar one of those small caliber civilian market Makarovs.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 03:24, 25 September 2017 (EDT)

== Help to ID the missile launcher ==

Hello! Excuse me, I have some request: can anybody help with ID the missile launcher? [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 06:12, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Another view of the same MT-LB personnel carrier. Missile launcher is seen.]]
:The doubling effect makes it hard to make out, but I'm betting it's either a [https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5137/5454940632_c34b97e3c7_b.jpg B-8M1] or a [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Aircraft_engine_MiG-23_rockets_pods.jpg/1280px-Aircraft_engine_MiG-23_rockets_pods.jpg UB-16-57UMP], though [http://www.lietadla.com/vyzbroj/s-5/ub-32_mig-27-01.jpg UB-32A] is also possible, however their rocket pod seems a bit too stout to be a direct match. All of them are usually CAS armaments probably taken off a Mi-24, Su-25 or a MiG-23.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 09:53, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
::I uploaded afew more screenshots:

[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

Maybe, it's will be usefull for ID. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 10:28, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
:They sure do the job! I am certain it's a '''UB-16-57UM'''(P), the five inner tubes sticking out of the forward cone, the 16 rocket tubes and the narrowing of the back end are all tell-tale giveaways!--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 14:07, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
::Many thanks for the help! Now, this page is seems complite, exept the title, certanly. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 14:23, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
The machine gun on BMP-2 must be PKT, not PKTM, as the latter simply didn't exist during the 1990s when the footage of Nagorno-Karabakh War was made. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 14:53, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
:::Greg's right! For some reason, the very obvious thought, that ''the '''archival''' footage'' was taken ''during'' the conflict never occurred to me. PKTM is mounted on contemporary BMP-2 production, and as such might be anachronistic for the conflict that ended in 1994. That said, can someone help me source the year PKT'''M''' went into service? I haven't managed to find any source on the production run on my own. That only leaves the possibility of a coax PKT, as BMP-2 didn't mount any other platforms in that position as far as I'm aware.
The page is looking pretty nifty now. Always nice to see a relatively obscure movie get a proper treatment!--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:51, 26 September 2017 (EDT)

:I uploaded a few more screenshots. Maybe, it's help with ID. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 15:15, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BMP-2 showcasing the armament encased in a turret with a 30mm 2A42 autocannon and 7.62mm coaxial PKTM machine gun.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
What is the problem with this? This is a standard BMP-2 with 2A42 and PKT. The muzzle of 30mm cannon is under protection cover. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 15:38, 26 September 2017 (EDT)

Talk:He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-26T18:07:23Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Help to ID the missile launcher */

Talk:He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-26T13:53:36Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Help to ID the missile launcher */

He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-26T07:44:33Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Bipod equiped AK-type rifle */

{{Infobox Movie
|name = Arxada qalmış gələcək
|picture = Arxada qalmis gelecek poster.JPG
|caption = ''Original Poster''
|country = [[Image:AZE.jpg|25px]] Azerbaijan
|director = Rüfat Asadov
|date= 2005
|language = Azerbaijani Armenian Russian
|studio= Azerbaijanfilm
|distributor=
|character1=Malik
|actor1=Fuad Poladov
|character2=Səməd
|actor2=Agamehdi Abidov
|character3=Səməd's mother
|actor3=Azərin
|character4=Ağaəli
|actor4=Abbas Gahramanov
|character5=Amin
|actor5=Omur Nagiyev
|character6=Albert
|actor6=Parviz Mamedrzaev
|character7=Rəşid
|actor7=Mikail Mikailov
|character8=Mariya
|actor8=Leyla Shahvelieva
|character9=Shmarov
|actor9=Yuri Baliev
|character10=Gurgen
|actor10=Aydin Aliyev
}}

'''Arxada qalmış gələcək''' is the 2005 Azerbaijan antiwar fantasy drama, set during the end of Nagorno-Karabakh War. Young boy, named Səməd, who is a refugee from Aghdam and and grew in the refugees camp, fantastically travelled to the 1994 year. The defeat of Azerbaijan in the war was inevitable, but the government tries to did last attempt to take the initiative and send a group of soldiers to the doomed to failure the mission: attempting to destroy Armenian air base in Nagorno-Karabakh.

''PC''. This film was filmed in pale tones, whis a medium resolution, to emphasize a tragic fate of young boy appeared in the hell of war. The doubling of the image isn't film deffect, but an art reception.

{{Film Title}}
__TOC__ 

=Pistols=
==Makarov PM==
Malik's (Fuad Poladov) duty sidearm is the [[Makarov PM]]. Russian mercenary, named Shmarov (Yuri Baliev) and Armenian commander Gurgen (Aydin Aliyev) both carry the [[Makarov PM] in holsters.
[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Russian '''Makarov PM''' - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Malik checks his pistol.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 1 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 1 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Malik reloads his sidearm.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Shmarov relax after long travel, pistol in holster.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek pistol 2 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Gurgen (at the left) with the holstered pistol.]]

=Rifles=
==SVD Dragunov==
Amin (Omur Nagiyev) carry [[SVD Dragunov]] throughout the movie.
[[Image:SVD Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SVD Dragunov sniper rifle - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 3 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Amin (at the left) with the rifle.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 3 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Amin (at the left) with the rifle on the shoulder.]]

==RPK-74==
Ağaəli (Abbas Gahramanov) uses bipod equipped, standard light machine gun of the ex-Soviet republics, at the several scenes.
[[Image:Soviet_RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Soviet RPK-74 - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifles 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promo shot. Ağaəli with the RPK at the center.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ağaəli with the same firearm on the shoulder.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Another view of the same scene.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ağaəli carry his light machine gun. Note the very long barrel.]]

==AK-74==
Albert (Parviz Mamedrzaev), Ağaəli (Abbas Gahramanov) and Rəşid (Mikail Mikailov) uses [[AK-74]] rifles. Armenian soldiers can be seen armed with the [[AK-74]]s as well.
[[Image:AK-74 NTW 12 92.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-74 - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifles 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promo shot. Rəşid (far left) and Albert (far right) with the rifles..]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Albert with the rifle on the sling. The buttstock is seen.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 1 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Albert puts his rifle on the ground.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Rəşid carry his rifle.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 2 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Rəşid covers...]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 2 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...during the shotout with Armenian soldiers.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 4 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ağaəli puts his rifle to the tree.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 7 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Armenian soldiers with the rifles.]]

==AKS-74==
[[AKS-74]]s can be briefly seen during the archive footage.
[[Image:Aks-74.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74 with Bakelite magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 5 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Unknown Rifles==
An unknown rifles can be briefly seen during the archive footage.
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek rifle 6 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

=Machine Guns=
==PKT==
[[PKT]] machine gun can be seen mounted on the MT-LB personnel carrier during the archive footage.
[[Image:Machine gun PKT.jpg|thumb|400px|none|PKT machine gun with 250-round ammo drum - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MT-LB personnel carrier armed with a 7.62 mm PKT machine gun.]]

==PKTM==
[[PKTM]] machine gun can be seen mounted on the BMP-2 during the archive footage.
[[File:PKTMG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|PKTM - 7.62x54mm R. A modified version of PKT, put into service in 1998.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BMP-2 showcasing the armament encased in a turret with a 30mm 2A42 autocannon and 7.62mm coaxial PKTM machine gun.]]

=Trivia=
==Archival Footage==
Several types of armored vehicles can be seen during the archive footage.
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 1 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BMP-2 showcasing the armament encased in a turret with a 30mm 2A42 autocannon and 7.62mm coaxial PKTM machine gun.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MT-LB personnel carrier armed with a 7.62 mm PKT machine gun.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek tank 2 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Another view of the same MT-LB personnel carrier. Missile launcher is seen.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek SAU 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|BM-21 Grad rocket artillery engaging a distant target.]]

==Combat planes==
Armenian air force uses MiG-25PU/RU (known under it's NATO moniker '''Foxbat-C''') interceptors in combat roles. Unlike it's successor MiG-31 (christened by NATO '''Foxhound'''), MiG-25 is a clear product of the Cold War interceptor paradigm armed exclusively with air-to-air and anti-radiation missiles, as such it has no internal guns.
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek plane 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Judging by the bumpy notch over the cockpit, this is two-seat conversion trainer aircraft.]]
[[Image:Arxada qalmis gelecek plane 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Main difference between PU and RU is that the former is an interceptor trainer and the later is a reconnaissance trainer fitted with a MiG-25R navigational system. There is no outward distinction between the two trainer variants.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Drama]]
[[Category:Fantasy]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:Azerbaijan Produced]]

He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-25T08:07:09Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Combat planes */

He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-25T07:55:12Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Combat planes */

He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-25T07:37:18Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Tanks */

He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-25T07:29:00Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Combat planes */

Talk:He Will Be Left Behind (Arxada qalmis gelecek)

2017-09-25T07:24:48Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Norinco rifles in Azerbaijan? */ new section

Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid

2017-02-12T09:10:10Z

BeloglaviSup: It's not quite a clear match, but judging by the vent-holes, the hand guard serrations and the position of the bayonet mount, I'd say it's at least supposed to be a QBZ-95 Gai model

[[File:FMPTSR BR cover.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Full Metal Panic!: The Second Raid (2005).]]

{{Anime Title}}

__TOC__ 

=Pistols=

==CZ 75BD==
A [[CZ 75#CZ 75BD|CZ 75BD]] is used by Gates, an Amalgam agent and the commander of its Execution Squad units.

[[Image:Cz75bd.jpg|thumb|none|400px|CZ 75BD (Decocker) - 9x19mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE02 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Gates executes one of his agents on instinct in "The Scene Below the Water".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE02 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|There's a good view of the 75BD.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE11 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Gates shows off his marksmanship skills while holding his combat knife with the mouth in "His Problem".]]

==Daewoo K5==
What appears to be a [[Daewoo DP-51 / K5 Pistol|Daewoo K5]] is used by Yang Jun-Kyu as his personal sidearm of choice.

[[Image:DaewooDP51.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daewoo DP-51 Pistol (commercial name for the Military K5 Pistol) - 9x19mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE04 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Yang cover for Melissa in "Daylight" after the rescue mission goes bad.]]

==Glock 17==
The [[Glock pistol series#Glock 17|Glock 17]] is seen with Sousuke Sagara instead of his usual Glock 26, starting from "The Scene Below the Water". It's also used by Mithril forces as their standard sidearm of choice with Special Reacton/Primary Reaction Team personnel.

[[Image:Glock17EarlyModel.jpg|thumb|none|300px|2nd Generation Glock 17 - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE02 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sousuke accosts a student trying to blackmail Kaname in "The Scene Below the Water".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE02 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|You can see that the pistol has no Glock trademarks, including a rail which means it's at least 2nd gen.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE10 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wu conducts a brass check on his Glock 17 before moving out in "Hong Kong in Two".]]

==Glock 26==
The [[Glock pistol series#Glock 26|Glock 26]] is Sousuke's personal sidearm of choice.

[[Image:Glock 26.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Glock 26 subcompact Pistol - 9x19mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE06 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sousuke's paranoia gets the better of him when he aims the pistol at the barber's head in "Edge of Heaven".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE12 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sousuke investigate a suspected Amalgam safehouse in "Burning Hong Kong".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE12 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After getting pissed by Gauron way too many times, Sousuke does the free world a favor and shoots him dead multiple times.]]

==Heckler & Koch P8==
The [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch P8|Heckler & Koch P8]] is Melissa' personal sidearm of choice, its presence is confirmed by numerous FMP art and guidebooks.

[[Image:pistole-p8.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Heckler & Koch P8 - 9x19mm. Note the reversed safety lever.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE04 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melissa is forced to let go of her sidearm in "Daylight".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melissa shows her disgust towards Bruno betraying Mithril by shoving the P8 down his mouth in "Beautiful Sicily".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A good shot of the P8 held in Melissa's hands.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|''"Shit. Bulletproof."'' Melissa raising her P8 after a 9mm bullet fails to penetrate bulletproof glass from an incoming Sicilian mafia SUV.]]

==SIG-Sauer P226==
The suppressed [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG-Sauer P226|SIG-Sauer P226]] is used by Xia Yu Lan in Tokyo in "Her Problem". Wu's sidearm in "His Problem" somehow changes from a Glock 17 to a P226 with Yang using it during the Hong Kong operation.

[[File:P226 with Mystic Suppressor.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226 pistol with Mystic Suppressor - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE09 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|''"Kaname Chidori, correct?"'' Yu Lan aims her suppressed P226 at Kaname in "Her Problem".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE09 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Yu Lan clears the jam by pulling the slide back.]]

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Factory black (K-Kote) SIG-Sauer P226 pistol - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE11 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In a possible continuity error, Wu's sidearm is now a P226 in "His Problem".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE11 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Yang keeps his pistol steady while moving to check a suspicious object.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE13 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Yang draws his sidearm while Sousuke does a rant on dying without meaning in "The Continuing Day by Day".]]

==Tokarev TT-33==
A [[Tokarev TT-33 Pistol|Tokarev TT-33]] is used by Yu Lan in "Labyrinth and the Dragon" after she kills a PRT operator and attempts to shoot at Melissa.

[[Image:TT-30.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Tokarev TT-30, first version of Tokarev pistol - 7.62x25mm Tokarev.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Xia Yu Lan raises the pistol in "Labyrinth and the Dragon".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Yu Lan opens fire at Melissa.]]

==X26 Taser==
A [[Taser|X26 Taser]] is given by Sousuke to Kaname Chidori as a self-defense weapon in "Edge of Heaven".

[[Image:X26-tazer.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Taser X26E with safety cap attached to a mounted cartridge]]
[[File:FMPTSRE06 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kaname examines the X26 in "Edge of Heaven" while telling Sousuke that it's a dangerous weapon to handle. Note that her finger is off the trigger.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE06 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|You can see the rear of the X26.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE09 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The X26 on the right side in "Her Problem".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE09 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kaname sneaks up on Mithril intelligence agent Wraith from the back.]]

=Submachine Guns=

==FN P90==
The [[FN P90]] is the standard submachine gun for all Mithril forces.

[[Image:FNP90Side.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN P90 - FN 5.7x28mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melissa raises the P90 after a fake hostage manages to get the drop on Tony at the end of "Labyrinth and the Dragon".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE04 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melissa using the P90 to block the incoming strike in "Daylight".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE04 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A good shot of the P90 as Melissa is forced back against the wall.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sousuke preps the P90 for battle in "Beautiful Sicily". He never uses it since he needs to take care of the driving.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW==
[[Heckler & Koch MP5#Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW|Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDWs]] is used in "Beautiful Sicily" by Sicilian mafia soldatos.

[[Image:MP5K-PDWEarly.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|MP5K with the PDW-style folding stock attached, commonly used in films to emulate the PDW - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sicilian mafia soldatos open fire at Melissa and Kurz after the alarm is raised in "Beautiful Sicily".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SM soldato emerges from the SUV during a car chase.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closeup of the MP5K-PDW being fired.]]

=Assault Rifles=

==AK-47==
The [[AK-47]] is used by terrorists and guerrillas alike.

[[Image:AK47WeWereSoldiersHeroGun.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Authentic AK-47 built from US Receiver - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE00 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Manistani guerrilla fighter guards prisoners digging a ditch in the Episode 0 special.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE00 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Manistani guerrillas guard their prisoners while standing in front of an unused Rk-91 Savage Arm Slave.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AK-47 fired by a Balican guerrilla fighter in a gunfight with Balic Army forces in "The End of Day by Day".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A nervous Balican guerrilla fighter grips his weapon after hearing loud footsteps of an incoming Arm Slave.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE04 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Amalgam terrorists wait to strike an ambush in the middle of "Daylight".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE12 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A young Sousuke in Afghanistan has an AK-47 slung on his back in Gauron's flashback in "Burning Hong Kong" while he disposes of a corpse.]]

==AKM==
The [[AK-47#AKM|AKM]] is seen with Amalgam forces in a remote Arm Slave base somewhere in China in "Edge of Heaven" with the Xia siblings using them.

[[File:AKM airsoft gun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Airsoft''' AKM replica]]
[[File:FMPTSRE06 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A good closeup of the AKM's barrel in "Edge of Heaven".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE06 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Xia Yu Fan opens fire on Amalgam terrorists.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE06 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Yu Fan runs towards the Arm Slaves. The presence of the solid stock confirms it as an AKM.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE06 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Yu Lan provides covering fire for Yu Fan as the latter hijacks a Codarl.]]

==Colt M16A2==
[[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|Colt M16A2s]] are used by the South Chinese Army as their main assault rifle.

[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[File:FMPTSRE10 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SCA soldiers detain Melissa due to a traffic accident in the Kowloon side of the Cross-Harbour Tunnel in "Hong Kong in Two".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE10 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SCA soldiers grab Sousuke after he steps out of the van.]]

==FN FNC==
The FN FNC is used by the Balican Army as their main assault rifle. It is a potential reference to the Indonesian Army, which uses Pindad-made FNCs as the main assault rifle back in 2005, as well as with East Timor's independence in the early 2000s alongside Indonesian withdrawal.

[[File:FN FNC.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FN FNC - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Balican Army forces raise their FNCs on orders from Colonel Maress in "The End of Day by Day".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Balican refugees panic after the FNCs are raised at their direction.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE02 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The FNCs aimed at Gates in "The Scene Below the Water".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE02 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Enraged Balican troops takes aim at Gates after he executes the colonel.]]

==Heckler & Koch G36==
A couple of [[Heckler & Koch G36]]s are used in "Beautiful Sicily" by Melissa and Kurz Weber, taking it from a weapons stash.

[[Image:G36.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Heckler & Koch G36V (formerly G36E) with export optical sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The G36s in a weapons stash in "Beautiful Sicily".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melissa loads a 30-round magazine to the assault rifle. Note that the magazines are taped jungle style despite the studs are present to easily join them together.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kurz shoulders the G36 as he prepares to let the Sicilian mafia ''smell the destruction''.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kurz uses the reflex sight to aim at a signboard. Note that the G36 is animated with no charging handle.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melissa smiles after she guns down several Sicilian mafia SUVs.]]

==QBZ-95-1==
QBZ-95-1 appears in the hands of SCA soldiers patrolling the streets of Kowloon.

[[File:Norinco QBZ95-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Norinco QBZ-95-1 - 5.8x42mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE11 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two SCA soldiers talk to a Kaname-like prostitute in the deserted streets of Kowloon in "His Problem".]]

=Shotguns=

==Benelli M3 Super 90==
Melissa uses a [[Benelli M Series Super 90 Shotguns#Benelli M3|Benelli M3 Super 90]] from the weapons stash Sousuke acquired for the Sicily op in "Beautiful Sicily".

[[Image:Benelli_m3-1-.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Benelli M3 Super 90 with pistol grip stock combination - 12 gauge]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melissa loads the shotgun in "Beautiful Sicily".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Taking aim at an incoming Sicilian mafia SUV.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melissa takes cover from incoming gunfire.]]

=Sniper Rifles=

==SVD Dragunov==
A [[SVD Dragunov]] is used by Wraith after she's permanently assigned to Tokyo at the end of "The Continuing Day by Day".

[[File:SVDIronSights.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SVD Dragunov with scope removed - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[File:FMPTSRE13 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wraith sneezes while conducting overwatch on Jindai High at the end of "The Continuing Day by Day".]]

==Unknown==

[[File:FMPTSRE01 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

=Machine Guns=

==Browning M2HB==
[[Browning M2]]HB machine guns are seen mounted on Balican Army AMX Leclerc MBTs in "The End of Day by Day".

[[Image:BrowningM2_plain.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB - .50 BMG]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Balican Army Leclerc MBTs and Mistral II Arm Slave head off to a refugee camp in "The End of Day by Day".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Balican Leclercs corner the Arbalest while it attempted a solo escape.]]

==General Dynamics M197 Vulcan==
The [[M61 Vulcan#General Dynamics M197 Vulcan|General Dynamics M197 Vulcan]] is seen mounted on Mistral II Arm Slaves as anti-personnel weapons. It's seen with South Chinese Army AH-1 Cobras at the start of "Labyrinth and the Dragon".

[[Image:M197Gatling2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Dynamics M197 Vulcan - 20x102mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Mistral II aims the mounted M197 at refugees in "The End of Day by Day".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SCA AH-1 Cobra takes on a Savage in "Labyrinth and the Dragon".]]

==General Dynamics XM301==
The XM301 is seen with Mithril-manned RAH-66 Comanches, codenamed Teiwaz.

[[File:XM301b.jpg|thumb|none|450px|General Dynamics XM301 - 20x102mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The XM301 mounted on a Mithril RAH-66 gunship, codename Teiwaz-12, after being attacked by an anti-ECS anti-aircraft missile in "The End of Day by Day".]]

==KPVT==
A [[KPV heavy machine gun|KPVT machine gun]] is seen with North Chinese Army BTR-type vehicles.

[[File:KPVT HMG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|KPVT heavy machine gun with carry handle - 14.5x114mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE10 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A NCA BTR-type APC is parked near the Hong Kong entrance of the Cross-Harbour Tunnel in "Hong Kong in Two".]]

==MAS AAT-52 Char==
A [[MAS AA-52|MAS AAT-52 Char]] machine gun is seen mounted on top of Balican Army Leclerc MBTs and Panhard VBLs in "The End of Day by Day".

[[File:AAT-52 Char HMG.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MAS AAT-52 Char - 7.5x54mm French]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Balican tank gunner aims the Char at refugees in "The End of Day by Day".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A lightly damaged VBL recon vehicle driven by Col. Maress.]]

==M134 Minigun==
A few [[M134 Minigun]]s are seen as anti-personnel traps in "Labyrinth and the Dragon".

[[File:DGTAMinigun.jpg|thumb|450px|none|DeGroat Tactical Armaments Minigun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The minigun's camera sensor gets taken out by Yang's Cornershot in "Labyrinth and the Dragon".]]

==NSV==
A NSV heavy machine gun| is seen mounted on a Manistani Army T-72 MBT in the Episode 0 special. A NSV is used in a NCA guard post in "Hong Kong in Two".

[[File:NSV HMG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|NSV HMG - 12.7x108mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE00 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The WWBC news channel shows a partial image of the Manistani Army T-72 rolls out in the Episode 0 special.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE00 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Manistani Army T-72 engages anti-government guerrillas.]]

[[Image:NSV.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Tripod-mounted NSV heavy machine gun with ammo box and belt - 12.7x107mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE10 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A NCA soldier mans the NSV machine gun post near the Hong Kong entrance of the Cross-Harbour Tunnel in "Hong Kong in Two".]]

==PKT==
A [[PK Machine Gun|PKT]] co-axial machine gun is seen mounted on a Manistani Army T-72 MBT in the Episode 0 special. It's also used by NCA BTR-type APCs.

[[File:PKTMG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|PKTM - 7.62x54mm R. A modified version of PKT, put into service in 1998.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE00 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The WWBC news channel shows a partial image of the Manistani Army T-72 rolls out in the Episode 0 special.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE00 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Manistani Army T-72 engages anti-government guerrillas.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE10 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A NCA BTR-type APC is parked near the Hong Kong entrance of the Cross-Harbour Tunnel in "Hong Kong in Two".]]

==Shipunov 2A42 cannon==
A [[Shipunov 2A42]] cannon is seen mounted on top of a Manistani Army BTR-80 APC, captured and used by Manistani guerrillas.

[[File:30mm autocannon BTR 90.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Shipunov 2A42 mounted on BTR-90 - 30x165mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE00 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Top view of the BTR-80 before Mao's anti-vehicle dagger is thrown at it in the Episode 0 special.]]

=Grenade Launchers=

==Sawed-off M79==
The [[M79 grenade launcher|sawed-off M79 grenade launcher]] is used by Kurz in the OVA episode "A Relatively Leisurely Day in the Life of a Fleet Captain" in Mithril's Merida Island base, used to fire non-lethal practice rounds.

[[File:KA sawed off M79 GL.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''Airsoft''' King Arms sawed off M79.]]
[[File:FMPTSROVA 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kurz has that smirk in "A Relatively Leisurely Day in the Life of a Fleet Captain" when he aims the sawed-off M79 at a charging Belfangan.]]
[[File:FMPTSROVA 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kurz blocks an incoming attack with his grenade launcher during a fight.]]
[[File:FMPTSROVA 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A good shot of the sawed-off M79 as Kurz spins and fires another practice round.]]
[[File:FMPTSROVA 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In this shot, you can see the grenade launcher's barrel and the latch used to close it.]]
[[File:FMPTSROVA 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sawed-off M79 hurled towards Tessa's direction.]]

=Rocket Launchers=

==AT4==
An [[M136 AT4|AT4]] is used in "Beautiful Sicily", taken from a weapons stash.

[[Image:AT-4Launcher.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|M136 AT4 Anti-Tank recoilless launcher - 84mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|''"Let's try this party favor!"'' Melissa happily shoulders the AT4 in the middle of "Beautiful Sicily".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The iron sights aimed at a Sicilian mafia SUV.]]

==BGM-71 TOW==
[[BGM-71 TOW]] missiles are seen in SCA AH-1 Cobras in "Labyrinth and the Dragon".

[[File:TOW AH-1W.jpg|thumb|none|400px|BGM-71 TOW mounted on AH-1W - 152mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SCA AH-1 Cobra takes on a Savage in "Labyrinth and the Dragon".]]

==RPG-7==
The [[RPG-7]] is used by guerrillas and terrorists alike. In the Episode 0 special, Manistani soldiers use them in battles against Manistani guerrilla forces.

[[File:RPG-7 with folded sights.jpg|thumb|none|500px|RPG-7 with folded iron sights - 40mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE00 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Manistani soldier prepares to fire a RPG-7 in the Episode 0 special.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE00 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Manistani guerrilla hides from Sousuke's Arbalest.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The RPG-7 held by a Balican guerrilla fighter in "The End of Day by Day".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Gates shoulders the rocket launcher after seeing a South Chinese police blockade in "Labyrinth and Dragon".]]

=Grenades=

==Flashbang==
A flashbang is used by Yu Lan to evade capture in the middle of "Daylight".

[[File:FMPTSRE04 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A flashbang is hurled by Yu Lan in "Daylight" to escape.]]

==M116A1 Grenade==
A [[M116A1 training grenade]] is seen with Kaname's stash in "Her Problem".

[[Image:m116a1-grenade.jpg|thumb|none|201px|M116A1 training grenade modified for M201-series fuze, minus pin and safety lever.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE09 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M116A1 on the left side in "Her Problem".]]

==M67 Grenade==
A [[M67 hand grenade|M67 frag grenade]] is used by Kurz in "Beautiful Sicily".

[[File:M67 grenade surplus.jpg|thumb|none|200px|M67 hand grenade surplus]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kurz takes off the grenade's safety pin in "Beautiful Sicily".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE05 18.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kurz ''hands'' the grenade off as a ''going away present''.]]

=Special Weapons=

==CornerShot==
The [[CornerShot]] is used by Mithril PRT/SRT forces on foot, most notably in the Cross-Yangtze River Tunnel.

[[File:FMPTSRE03 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tony grips his Cornershot when warned about a visible laser trap in "Labyrinth and the Dragon".]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Yang's Cornershot takes aim at a minigun's camera sensor. Note the suppressor and 33-round extended magazine.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Yang retracts the Glock back after shooting the sensor.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A PRT operator takes cover. Note the groin plate.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE03 08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Team Ruby PRT operator secures the staircase. A nice shot of the mounted Glock with suppressor and extended magazine. The wire attached to the Cornershot apparently connects to a HUD system in their assault glasses/radio headset, so that they don't need to look at the Cornershot screen.]]
[[File:FMPTSRE04 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A PRT operator firing the Cornershot on full auto after Yang pulls him out of the way to avoid being killed in "Daylight".]]

=Others=

==M269 Launcher Loader Module==
A Balican Army M270 MLRS' M269 Modules is used in "The End of Day by Day" to fire a rocket volley towards the Arbalest.

[[File:M270 MLRS M269 Launcher Loader Module .jpg|thumb|400px|none| M269 Launcher Loader Module mounted on an M270 MLRS - 227mm]]
[[File:FMPTSRE01 09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Balican Army M270 prepares to fire a rocket volley in "The End of Day by Day".]]

{{Full Metal Panic! Series}}

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Talk:Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

2017-01-24T09:11:11Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Just noted... */

== Replacing the infobox image ==

[[File:MGS4poster.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Infobox image as of now]]

I really don't consider this pic... well... "identifiable MGS4 imagery." Like Jesus, I think that's the beta character model of in-game Snake shown in early trailers, right!? Like take a quick peek at the images in [http://thesnakesoup.org/editorial-articles/tokyo-game-show-2005-get-the-fuck-over-it/ this awesome yet dated article] for comparisons.

Anyway, ''I'm in favor of installing pic below instead.'' The above image seems to be the prototype of the final North American cover (as shown below) and atleast the people are way more familiar with this than... Whatever the thing above is ripped from. (''Where'' *is* it from?)

[[File:MGS4_North_American_Cover.jpg|thumb|none|300px|MGS4 North American cover]]

Or alternatively
* [http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080511045406/metalgear/images/c/c5/LE.jpg North American Special Edition Cover]
* [http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080407204745/metalgear/images/e/e7/MGS4_European_Cover.jpg European Cover]
* [http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121107145935/metalgear/images/d/d6/10650061-1352291151-833499.jpg European "MGS 25th Anniversary" reprint edition cover]

Open for opinions. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 14:35, 28 February 2015 (EST)

:I would like to see the MGS4 NA cover become the new infobox picture; it's probably the best-known cover for this game. Besides, it also showcases how Old Snake was deliberately modelled to resemble [[Lee Van Cleef]] in his later years.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 19:30, 28 February 2015 (EST)

'''''And it is done.''''' And now the whole article looks so much better! [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 03:54, 9 July 2015 (EDT)

== Airsoft 1911 ==
Are you absolutely sure the airsoft gun wasn't based on the gun in the game?-protoAuthor
:What are you talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:10, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
::You say the custom 1911 was based on an airsoft gun. Are you sure it wasn't the other way around?-protoAuthor
::I also agree that the gun isn't based off the one in the pic for that weapon. Aside from it being an airsoft gun, it is a compact version of a 1911 when Big Boss's 1911 was a fullsize. Also, the slide serrations are slanted wheras the ones on big boss's weapon were vertical like those on the original 1911. Neither one has anything to do with the other, I think the image should be removed.

the 'source' for the statement 'Big Boss's gun is based off a custom airsoft' is http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/gameguns.html

However, I view this with a huge degree of skepticism. For starters, as mentioned, the barrel/slide seems to be longer on Big Boss's gun. But even if it is based on an airsoft gun, the airsoft gun itself is based on a standard real-world 1911 with real world features. So it's just one step removed from raw, hands on research. But then again, I don't think most game companies actually buy real versions of the guns they are modeling, they just look around for photos of them. It's like saying 'the model for the gun in this game isn't based on a REAL M-16, it's based on pictures of an M-16'

That 'source' mentions that the gun was produced by Sheriff Co. Given that Sheriff is mentioned in the MGS3 credits it's actually quite likely that it was in fact modeled off an airsoft gun. However, the one in the picture is obviously not the one in the game.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 19:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I know that Western Arms did an airsoft version of the MGS3 custom 1911 after the game was released. I wasn't aware of an airsoft gun like that existing before MGS3 was released. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:30, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

== DSR-1 ==

It can also be found in South America when following Naomi's trail, just follow the wrong footsteps from the point where you can also find hand trails. You will hear Naomi crying for help (from a radio) and a sniper will wait for you to come. She has the DSR-1 with her.

== In game pistures ==

Someone needs to post ingame pictures of the guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

this shot gun (http://www.gunsamerica.com/926290644/Guns/Shotguns/Ithaca-Shotguns/SxS/Ithaca_NID_New_Ithaca_Field_Grade.htm) looks alot like the "twin barrel" in the game.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.22|184.35.22.22]] 22:34, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mark 23 Mod 1? ==
''According to the Metal Gear Wiki, the gun they used as a reference in MGS4 is actually an experimental "Phase 2" model that is currently undergoing testing by the US Navy.''

No, actually it says that ''the SOCOM presented in MGS1, MGS2 and MGS4 is in fact the Phase II model handgun submitted for trials in the USSOCOM Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) competition around the later part of 1991, and not the actual production model of the Mk.23 Mod 0''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

::I wrote that -- the differences were the LAM, front serrations on the slide, markings, and the hammer looked different too. By the time the Mk23 was received in May '96, these details bad been changed; both for the military and civilian versions of the pistol. Overall, they're mostly aesthetic changes. -- Orca*

==Screenshots needed==

This page needs someone with enough effort to add pictures for all of these guns. -GM

:I can't do screencaps, but I did add some details about some of the weapons such as where they can be found and such. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:I would agree that a game with this many weapons would be much better with more relevant screencaps, especially ones without watermarks. More relevant information about the guns themselves would also be welcome.

==Why the strange biases towards certain weapons and calibers in this game?==

It seems odd to me why the weapon/caliber selection is so odd in this game. Metal Gear Solid has been one of the best game series to prominently display the real names of every gun in the game, but I have to wonder if some of those companies Kojima got permission from paid him to underplay the abilities of other guns in this game.

For the calibers, it seems mighty odd that the Glock 18c is the only 9x19mm pistol in the entire game. Not even the rebels or militia use older 9x19mm pistols, which is very odd because you'd think that of the vast majority of older pistols that escaped the worldwide mandatory ID lock systems that is mentioned in the game's backstory would be 9x19mm pistols. Not even something like a Beretta M9 is used by the PMC troopers, even though it would be a nice free choice to have in Metal Gear Online.

The game also strangely features 7.62x51mm Battle Rifles where they aren't the most appropriate, such as how the PMCs use the FN SCAR-H even in the confines of urban ruins (as in Act 1) or an intact city (as in Act 3). Only the South American countryside in Act 2 would be an appropriate location for those Battle Rifles in the hands of general troopers. You'd think that Kojima with his weaponry knowledge would give them assault rifles/PDWs/shotguns instead while in urban operations, but that's somehow not the case.

Did H&K and FN pay Kojima to include (and in turn, advertise) their products a great deal in this highly-anticipated and wildly popular game? FN has the Five-SeveN, the P90, the SCAR-H, and the FAL all in the game, while H&K has the SOCOM pistol, the MP5SD2, the XM8, the G3A3, and the HK21E. Colt products and their users by contrast don't get that kind of exposure--Colt M4s are rare, and Colt M16s are completely non-existent in this game. I also think it's telling that the FN P90 has its 50 round magazine, a combat sight, a flashlight and a suppressor, but its competitor, the H&K MP7 has only a red dot sight and is stuck with its 20 round magazine (not its upgraded 40 round magazine) according to this game just can't compete.

Contrary to what some posters on this wiki have said elsewhere, I don't believe this game is biased towards the latest and greatest weapons in general, as several weapons here such as the Vz. 83, the FN FAL carbine, the G3A3, the MAC-10, the Mosin Nagant, the PKM, the RPG-7 and the SVD Dragonuv are quite old.

Kojima definitely spent some time doing weapons research for this game, but did he ever come out with a reason as to why the game chose such odd additions to its arsenal? His personal favourite gun is the Barret M82, something not suited for general combat, so maybe he himself doesn't know as much as the ingame info might imply. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the same arguments could be said about any of the Tom Clancy games like Rainbow Six Vegas and it's whoring worth of H&K weaponry [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

It would seem to me that if HK and FN paid Kojima off to showcase (or "whore out", whichever you reading this prefers) their tech, weapons like the XM8 and SCAR-H wouldn't be seemingly outclassed by the M4. You can kit the M4 out with anything and everything, while the SCAR-H lacks a suppressor and grenade launcher (severely hindering its flexibility) and the only thing the XM8 gets is the grenade launcher. Heck, the M4 is pretty much a CQB, grenadier, and designated marksman carbine all in one package (and I typically use it as such, often foregoing the actual ''sniper rifles'' in the game in long range combat for the M4 equipped with an ACOG). If HK or FN had paid him off, it would seem logical for the M4 to be totally outclassed in-game by both the XM8 and SCAR-H. Not only those points, but the M4 and the 1911s (I say 1911s collectively because cutscenes seem to automatically replace every non-1911 pistol in your inventory with the Operator) are implied to be Snake's signature weapons this time around. If he were paid off, why aren't the Mark 23 and XM8 or Five-Seven and SCAR-H his signature weapons? Also where's the PSG1, the so-called "greatest sniper rifle in the world" (or so HK says)? And I also feel the urge to point out that the HK21E has '''0''' modifications for it as well as a ridiculously slow ROF, which makes the M60E4 ''clearly'' superior to it. Now, I'm not exactly ''defending'' either company here, but it just seems to me that if they had paid Kojima off, the biases pointed out here would be far more extreme. As it stands, I just think Kojima wanted the weapons he likes the most to be the ones players used the most. Regarding the "old" weapons in the game, they may have seen a few years, yes, but FALs, G3s, Dragunovs, PKs, and above all the RPG-7 are so ubiquitous today that we'll be seeing them on modern battlefields, ''especially'' ones in the Middle East, for decades to come. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

:Actually, now that I've spent some time thinking about it, the M4 and M1911 in MGS4 may not actually be Colt products at all. After all, didn't a court decision in real life rule that an M4 is a type of firearm and not a Colt trademark at all? It's kind of like how an "M1911-style pistol" is also a type of pistol, not a Colt trademark which is why there are dozens if not hundreds of kinds of "M1911-style pistols" for sale on the general market today. I wonder if Kojima asked Colt to use their trademarks and got rebuffed for whatever reason, which might have caused him to withdraw the M4s from the PMCs and substitute FN SCAR-Hs until someone told him he could just call it an M4 (though not a Colt M4) and avoid copyright infringement.

:On the issue of customizability, I think the M4's customizability compared to, for instance, the XM8 and FN SCAR-H is a bit of laziness on the part of Kojima. I don't think there's any reason why they couldn't just stick the M14 EBR's suppressor model on the end of the FN SCAR-H or G3A3 and turn those two into suppressed firearms, for instance. They could have also stuck the M4's suppressor model onto the AK-101 or XM8 as well (in my opinion the XM8's integral red dot sight in MGS4 is easier to use than the M4's, being a great deal less claustrophobic than the M4's version). Something like the FN EGLM would have been nice on the SCAR-H (or the SCAR-L had they bothered to give the PMCs assault rifles in urban areas) but unlike the M320 or GP-30, would only have gone on one weapon (unless the SCAR-L was included) and possibly not have been good on the cost-benefit analysis. But my point, that the customizability of many of the weapon systems (where are the PSO-1 scopes for the AN-94 and AK-102, for instance?) is more an artifact of the design decision than the reality of the weapons in question. Of course, even with the full "real-life" customizability, the M4 would still be the only one capable of carrying an underslung shotgun, which I think is unique enough (though I bet the XM8 could have gotten one had it been adopted, and I'm sure one will be designed for the FN SCAR models if it proves itself in the field enough).

:Oh, and one of the reasons why you can snipe with the M4 is because the game over-emphasizes headshots and doesn't implement ballistic physics for bullets. If it did, bullet drop would come into play (especially since the M4's short barrel means that less velocity and energy is imparted to the bullet, resulting in less effective range), moreso with the M4 than the FN SCAR-H or M14 EBR for instance. I think the game would have been more fun if helmets were stronger (for instance, 5 helmet hits from most pistol weapons to kill, 3 helmet hits from 5.56mm weapons to kill someone, or 2 7.62x51mm/PDW ammunition hits, or 1 9x39mm/shotgun slug hit), forcing the player to aim for the exposed face or neck to guarantee a one-hit headshot kill).

:I only mentioned those weapons as "old" so as to defuse claims that Kojima was only focussed on the "latest and greatest."

:It would have been nice if a PSG-1 and FAMAS (both weapons used in MGS1) showed up in the game for old time's sake, but that was not to be. Still, that doesn't resolve the question of why HK's PDW (the MP7A1) is so inferior to FN's PDW (the P90) in this game. Even the wikipedia image of the MP7A1 shows it with a suppressor and 40 round magazine, along with custom optics. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:25, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::Play on a higher difficulty level. The strength of the PMC's helmets varies. On the easiest level, a single 9mm round will punch through. On the highest level, it takes a couple of rounds of 7.62 NATO to punch through. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:50, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

One imagines a general switch from assault rifles back to battle rifles would occur in a world where you might reasonably expect to encounter extremely tough infantry armour or power suits; given the nature of the PMCs as private entities, being "equipped for anything" is probably a selling point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:23, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:Sure, but if you're really "equipped for anything" you'd issue what's needed for the environment. And the PMCs in Act 2 (South America) still use the SCAR-H CQC even though in open countryside that barrel length is more of a liability than anything else. Even the Leftist insurgents are using full-size G3A3s in that stage. In a battle rifle, the shorter the barrel, the more of the cartridge's energy goes to waste as useless muzzle flash and sound. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::To be fair, Pieuvre Armement also have more support weapons than any of the other PMCs (snipers, HMGs, grenade launchers, and a lot of mounted guns) and it looks like they were primarily hired to defend key government structures rather than fight it out in the open. Perhaps with the SCARs they just got a bulk discount, or given it's a private entity it could just be one of the directors like the look of the weapon / someone was impressed by the salesman's spiel / someone was sleeping with someone else / whatever. Out of game, it makes some sense; it means you only need one set of gestures coded for NPC / rifle no matter what level they're in. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:19, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:If Kojima's aim was to make the FN SCAR-H a "this is one of the signature enemy NPC guns" type of thing, then that does make some sense, but that doesn't even cover how many Pieuvre Armement troopers can be found patrolling in the open, sometimes ambushed by Leftist insurgents, or the lack of customizability options for the FN SCAR-H.

:Furthermore, if Kojima and his team could afford the time and money to put the KAC Masterkey on the M4A1 Carbine (an accessory that can be mounted on no other weapon in this game) you could just as easily do the same kind of work and stick an FN EGLM grenade launcher to the SCAR-H (it uses the same swing-out cylinder as does the M320 grenade launcher, so the animations would be largely the same), to say nothing of a suppressor or the LSS underslung shotgun for the XM8. And why not rip off the Mk. 14 Mod 0's suppressor to use on the SCAR-H, G3A3 or the FAL carbine? Before you tell me "they don't have barrel threading," neither does Snake's Operator pistol, his very first suppressed lethal weapon. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:31, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
::Uh dude, Snake's Operator does have a threaded barrel, did you even look at the pics... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:41, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I stand corrected, the thumbnail made the threading blend together into a featureless grey. Regardless, my other points stand. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:55, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I think the idea was to make players want to use the M4 over other weapons (I guess to emphasise it), so the SCAR couldn't be as good as it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:07, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Noteworthy is the fact that the Masterkey in reality doesn't come in a rail-mounted version like is shown in-game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:44, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

== Mk. 23 Mod 0 ==
I just have to ask this; why does Snake like using the H&K Mk. 23? I mean, from everything I've heard/read about them, the USP compact tactical variant is much better, so why doesn't Snake use that?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 16:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

He uses it because the designers wanted him to use it. And if you've ever shot a Mk23 you'd know that it is vastly superior to the entire USP series in every possible way other than weight and weight shouldnt be an issue you're looking for a combat handgun.
-Double Agent M

:Um, yes, weight ''is'' an issue in a combat handgun. Weight is ''always'' an issue when it comes to the weapons and gear used by soldiers. That's why the Mark 23 ''failed'' as a combat handgun and lavished on supply shelves instead of inside holsters like the various 1911 makes and even the entire USP series. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I've been meaning to ask this for a while now on the HK Mk. 23's page, but since this was brought up, I might as well ask it here: why ''was'' the Mk. 23 made so big and bulky in the first place, if its performance could have been replicated in the smaller USP series? It's close in size to the Desert Eagle despite firing a smaller (and more combat-practical) cartridge. Was it to ensure ruggedness, resistance to salt water damage, and reliability? Or something else? It's always puzzled me about this pistol that is one of the signature weapons of the Metal Gear Solid series (making appearances in 1, 2, and 4). Of course, it could be that Kojima just thinks it's a "cool gun" . . . --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Its weight helps counteract recoil, the elongated barrel improves accuracy, and right out of the box it can be fitted with a suppressor and a LEM. It's bulky enough so that if you need to you can beat a man to death with it. It's a fantastic combat handgun but where it loses out to Berettas and Colts is in complexity. Because of it's raw size you cant just whip it around and the controls can take some getting used to. It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm.
-Double Agent M

:Supposedly the USP Compact Tactical can mount a suppressor and Laser Aiming Module, but only has 8 rounds in .45 ACP. Also, as a "Offensive Handgun Weapons System," the SOCOM pistol supposed to be usable as a primary weapon when killing is supposed to be done discreetly, such as many situations in the Metal Gear Solid series. On paper I can see why it's better, but if the hands-on experience of operators deems it as "uncomfortable to carry and use," then their complaints trump the on-paper benefits.

:Of course, "uncomfortable" and "hard to use" is a bit of a relative term, since training and practice can certainly acclimatise someone to almost any well-designed weapons system, but that takes time, money, and perseverance. Given that handguns are hardly a primary weapon system anymore, and the majority those who do professionally use them as such (such as average beat cops) don't train with them to be expert shooters most of the time, I suppose ease of use is a major factor because it's the easier way out instead of spending time to get used to a better-on-paper but less-user-friendly weapon. If "better-on-paper" mattered more, wouldn't the FBI be using Glock 20 pistols instead of Glock 22 pistols? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:48, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with you. :) But I'd still love to get a hold of one and try it for myself. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:: "It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm." <-I love this kind of thing. Sure, a pistol that's a foot and an half long with a suppressor and weighs as much as an empty MP5 is a much better compliment to your primary weapon than it's weight in extra magazines ''for'' that primary weapon. Think you needed to lay off the HK propaganda there, "Agent M." To actually answer the question, they used the Mk23 because it's huge and blocky (same reason Meryl got that 50 AE Deagle), so it's easy for the player to see it in Snake's hands and for the PS1 to render it. Simple as that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:42, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:::I've heard from a lot people who actually own MK 23s and they say that their excellent weapons (and no, it was not "HK propaganda"). - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::::From what I've heard, they're excellent weapons in terms of accuracy (which comes from being gigantic and heavy) but not something you'd want to take into combat; they're too big for a backup weapon and not capable enough as a primary weapon. Also, anyone who drops the cost of a Mk23 on a pistol is going to have thought it was an excellent weapon ''before'' they bought it, otherwise they never would have done so in the first place. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:56, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::::I would buy one, but hey, a four pound .44 Magnum revolver feels like nothing in my hands, and I'm only a medium-sized guy with not much of a build. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:::::Not sure if anyone has noticed this, but is it me, or the MK 23 is listed in the menu as actually much lighter than it is IRL? Maybe that's why it is so popular in the MG universe... --[[User:Researcher|Researcher]] 20:18, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

::::::I always thought the reasoning behind the design and adoption of the Mark 23 initially, was because the weapon could handle ridiculously hot ammunition loads without exploding, something special forces occasionally use, which would normally destroy any "lighter" handgun. Out of the box, the Mk23 alongside the USP line, was one of the few handguns capable of firing .45 Super (not 100% on this) and the reliability of the weapon was insane for the time of its introduction as it could and still can take immense abuse. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 06:41, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

The MK23 is too heavy to be considered a practical firearm, too big to be quickly drawn from the holster if needed, sure the added weight can help reduce recoil, and the good magazine capacity is a plus, but that's really all that it has going for it, it was developed for the Navy SEALS SOCOM unit, and they don't even like it, preferring the smaller and more user friendly SIG SAUER P226, so if an actual military unit thinks the pistol is crap, then quite honestly, it's crap.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 19:10, 9 May 2012 (CDT)
:It's not that much heavier than a 1911. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:48, 16 March 2013 (EDT)
::Yeah, but it's supposed to be issued as a "system" with the suppressor and LAM. With those it's over a foot long and weighs as much as two and a half loaded Glocks (or almost as much as an empty AS Val). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:01, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

== Meryl's Desert Eagle ==

Just how "combat-effective" would the ballistics of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle be? What might the effective range be, and would it regularly penetrate the body armour of the FROG troopers she faces? Or would she be better off with an 40-round MP7A1 (to go with the theme of "biggest to smallest" weapons of the Rat Patrol) when fighting the FROG troopers in Advent Palace and Outer Haven? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

*I've got an Airsoft Desert Eagle (bought many years ago, mind) that came with both barrels, and it's weighted to the point you can see what a bad idea it is: it's ridiculously front-heavy with that barrel extension, and I imagine with a scope as well it'd probably weigh as much as the MP7 anyway. So maybe it could penetrate body armour and maybe it couldn't, but you'd still have better ergo from using a 1911 duct-taped to the head of a banjo. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:21, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Okay, so that Airsoft model exactly duplicates the loaded weight of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle? That's rather interesting. Even if it couldn't penetrate the body armour the FROGs seem to be wearing, would the impact force be enough to inflict blunt trauma on the FROGs, such as broken ribs, concussions, or the like? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:15, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

Well back when I did Airsoft, I played for functionality and being simple. Sure my team and I decked out our guns, but nothing more than red dot sights, and vertical grips. Because it isn't real firearms, we tried to not equip like we would a real weapon because it's not the same thing. Lighter is always better. The less we have to carry, the better. That being said, I would never get an Airsoft Desert Eagle to shoot in games. For fun, yeah. It'll be cool to run around the woods with the 10in barrel and a scope mounted on it, but you wouldn't get any good range with an airsoft pistol anyway, even if it is gas powered. Now a REAL Desert Eagle, I'd get for fun, but that's only after I get my more practical guns first.

Anyway, I think from a character standpoint, Meryl's character is supposed to be a "tough chick" so what's the iconic tough guy gun? A Desert Eagle from the action movies. I don't know if the .50 AE could go through body armor [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Yeah, I just use it for plinking spiders because I have a high ceiling. Bought it because I was a teenager and it was a Desert Eagle, I will make no excuses on that front. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 10:48, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

::lol, I also bought a Airsoft Desert Eagle when I was a teenager and I still have it. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:50, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, living here in Comrade Elizabeth's Glorious People's Republic of Englandstan makes it easy to hang on to it since if I'm reading this correctly I couldn't legally sell it anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

::::lol. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:49, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

:Well I admit before I knew anything about the M16, I was very anti-gun kid in early high school. Then when I got to know guns, I thought the M16 is this Vietnam piece of crap that jams all the time and the AK is the ultimate assault rifle until I grew up and got a more objective view of guns. When buying my first Airsoft, I bought a P90 cause I was a fan of Stargate...then I discovered a P90 Airsoft is useless, inaccurate and has terrible range. So I went and bought an M733, and then realize that you need a longer barrel for range and accuracy and that evolved to my M4 type rifle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:59, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

One more thing; does the reloading style Meryl uses in the fight inside Outer Haven's computer room have a name (where she jams one of her magazines into the crook of her knee while firing with her other hand, before reloading an empty Desert Eagle with the magazine held in her knee)? I see so many adds for shooting schools with patented styles around I have to wonder if this comes from one of them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:11, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Tanegashima rifle ==

Why isn't it on the page?

:Thanks to Evil Tim's hard work, it is now on the page. However, there's something that remains to be investigated; I've heard conflicting reports about whether or not the Tanegashima arquebus will always fire its "divine wind" (translated version of the Japanese word "Kamikaze") tornado if you fire it in the opposite direction of the wind in a singleplayer level. That could be something worth looking into. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:15, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::I'll check up on that; I'd just heard it was a one-third chance per shot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:51, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::Nope, nothing to do with the wind direction, I tried with and against the wind, and in the end it just went off at random like usual. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:17, 3 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see it was just a rumour then. Still, I'm puzzled as to why you didn't take a screenshot highlighting the extreme silliness of the weapon; it would have been worth a chuckle to see a screenshot of PMCs caught in the tornado flying in a spiral while dropping far more items than they could ever carry in real life while collecting their "frequent flier miles."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:57, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well, I accidentally selected Solid Normal rather than Big Wuss Easy, and it's hard enough getting the Tanegashima to do its thing normally, nevermind trying to check how it's affected by the direction of the wind while being shot at. I'm doing enough stupid things to burn through rations as it is :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:58, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see; I guess not all of us have the time to learn how not to get shot up less in this game (here's a tip; going prone or crawling is the best way to use your Octocamo). Would have been nice to see PMCs flying in a big spiral anyhow on this wiki. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:43, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well sure, I can be pretty sneaky when I'm not doing stupid things like seeing if I can get a Gekko to throw a grenade at me. Same as I'm trying to avoid wearing the Octocamo hood even though it's good for your camo index, because it also makes Snake look really stoopid. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Someone needs to finish this page ==

This page is how old and no one has finished it? Someone needs to start doing it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:17, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Well I don't have this game and it's a chore to get all the screenshots second hand [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I've got a much better capture device than I used to, so I could probably do this at some stage; the main problem is I'd have to record it first (since the software with the Dazzle crashes every time I take a screenshot and BSODs the entire computer if I try to take more than one); I'll have a crack at it next time I'm off work. Don't want to just stand in a corner looking at the same thing for every gun, that makes for dull page. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

:Please do. Stealth camo would be useful to take screenshots of weapons in the hands of NPCs (such as the MP7 or the like). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

::Still on this. It's going to take a while before I have time (especially since I'll need to record some of those billion hours of cutscenes), but I haven't forgotten. I'll probably get Twin Snakes and cap the whole series, since doing PS1 MGS1 without first-person aim mode for caps would be a bit pointless. "Look, Snake has a FAMAS! Down there in his hands...oh just click on the damn image and press your nose right up to the screen." Only thing I really need from that is a comparison shot of the Abrams, since the original game's one had two M2 Brownings instead of one. Also I've got an MGS2 trailer somewhere showing Snake with a FAMAS, so I'll have to add that to the 2 page. I'm hoping I can find a picture of the wooden prop version of Fortune's railgun that they built for motion capture. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:31, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Good to know. I'm looking forward to a full version of this page. I would have finished the MGS2 page myself, except that the PC version I have (the official KONAMI port) is somewhat poorly optimized, with some textures missing or improperly rendered (and what do you mean, KONAMI, that we can't use the mouse to aim in FPV or duplicate the pressure sensitive button functions from a PS2 controller with a keyboard?!). Also, the FAMAS in MGS2 is only usable on the demo version of MGS2 (though it does show up in some cutscenes in the Plant chapter for some strange reason). Did they reuse the MGS2 Demo FAMAS for the Twin Snakes? Perhaps you can find out. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:54, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, that'd be worth checking. I heard GIAT (it was still GIAT back then) got very precious about their intellectual property after they realised people wanted to put the FAMAS in games (they're the same about model companies and the LeClerc, Tamiya had to stick their logo and "officially endorsed" on the box of their LeClerc kit) and I think that's why Konami pulled the FAMAS from 2 and never had it turn up again even in 4. Probably they couldn't say no to using it in a remake since they'd already said yes the first time. I've still got the demo of 2 (only reason anyone bought ''Zone of the Enders'', after all) and the FAMAS isn't in that either; it goes from the start of Tanker to the end of the boss fight with Olga, and only gives you the M9 and USP. It was only ever in the early trailers showing Snake on the Tanker. I heard there's some other changes like the guys in the Warhead Storage room using ring airfoil rounds rather than just instakilling you with a radiation leak if you were spotted. Also, you didn't miss anything with the pressure sensitive buttons, trying to half-hold the fire button to aim a rifle in first person was terrible. Apparently the "Tanegashima" is a Japanese copy of a Portugese arquebus design (sayeth Wikipedia, anyway), so I'll have to add that to the page too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:19, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Well, copyright is a sticky situation (go look at one of my earlier comments here and notice how there are no Colt products in this game, despite the presence of an M4A1 Carbine and an M1911). Ubisoft got around it because the FAMAS appears in Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by its real name, so why not MGS4? And I was wrong; the FAMAS is coded within the MGS2 demo, but it is only accessible [http://youtu.be/MxfMCXcpGx8 via a code]. And actually there are a few uses for the pressure-sensitive buttons in MGS2--without them you bang your head against a locker ventilation grille when trying to look out, alerting any nearby enemies. You also can't aim an assault rifle without the pressure-sensitive controls, which made controlling them on the PC next to impossible. Another problem is you can't lower a pistol without firing it if you don't let go of the aiming button gently (I got around this on the PC version by unequipping my weapon). Finally, the distance you throw grenades is determined by how hard you press the pressure-sensitive button (but they were almost useless anyway since throwing a frag or flashbang grenade automatically causes an alert upon detonation and frags have a small damage radius). All this made for a frustratingly bad PC port, which is why I caved in and got the PS2 version afterwards. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:20, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

Well, made a start before realising I'm going to have to crop the borders off every image by hand. :( Ah well, they're just placeholders anyway just so we can get rid of the IGN watermarks and have actual game images. For now they can keep the borders and I'll replace them all when I do this page properly. I hope you appreciate my sacrifice, I had to uninstall Vanquish to get these. Stupid 40 gig PS3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:35, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Good work so far Tim. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:40, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

*Ok, I'll put up the explosives later today (since we don't have them at all). I'm fairly sure the railgun qualifies as reasonably believable; it was actually built as a physical object (a wooden MoCap prop) and looks like an XM25 that's eaten its Wheaties. And then everyone else's Wheaties. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:29, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Anyone remember where the PMCs with standalone Masterkeys show up? I think it's somewhere in Act 2, but I can't remember if you have to cause an alert or if they're just ahead of where I stopped recording (partway through Confinement Facility). Also, don't worry, the shots aren't all going to be from Act 2. Also added a spoiler warning since, well, I can hardly ''not'' have a shot of A Certain Person holding the Patriot, and the fourth Act being on Shadow Moses is kind of a spoiler too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:There's definitely at least one in the Confinement Facility, check out about 10:50 of this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg87rbI3CXU#t=10m50s], there's a guard with one who shows up with one at the right edge of the screen (pretty sure he always respawns there with a Masterkey). --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:27, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::Naw, that's an XM320, he's one of the pair I've got a shot of in that section. You can hear a "phut" rather than a shotgun blast when he fires. But I know there's people with standalone Masterkeys somewhere, because I remember being puzzled at why on earth you would create such a thing. (edit) Ah, MG Wiki says there's one at the gate of Vista Mansion. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Also, considering all the shit that fits inside Metal Gear Mk. 2 (50 Stingers, 50 Javelins, 50 LAWs, a Barrett, a railgun the size of a pony, etc) why does it never occur to Snake to hide inside it himself? I know they kind of joked about it with Snake being able to pocket a drum can that's bigger than he is, but still. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:36, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

It's called a "Hyperspace Arsenal." I would be all for a realistic mode that forced you to carry guns that are too big right from the beginning of a mission rather than have them delivered by the mini-Metal Gear, or have you collect them after a period of time after "requesting" them at a cache location dropped off by Drebin, or else only be able to transfer/launder/buy ammo just after meeting Drebin in cutscenes. Still, that wouldn't address the other realism issues this game has, such as how the NPCs are indestructible--shouldn't shooting them with .50 BMG weapons or high explosives blow off limbs or reduce them to ludicrous gibs? And what about the octocamo system; wouldn't the human eye only be realistically fooled if Snake was hiding in foliage or else, quite some distance away, lest the enemies spot his outline and start shooting at Snake?

In any case, do you think you could also include tidbits on which guns need to be laundered and which don't need to be? It'd be a nice tidbit, since the entry already includes which guns are available in multiplayer and which aren't. I'm very much looking forward to seeing more great screenshots of this game's guns--do you think it'd be possible for you to equip stealth camo and enter First Person view so we can see NPCs with holding their guns up close?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:06, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm afraid I don't have stealth camo (I can never resist firing LAWs at Strykers :() but I tend to prefer wider shots with things actually going on in them; just focusing right in on the gun makes the page rather dull to look through, IMO (I ''hate'' those CoD page images with everything cropped out but one corner of the screen; just imagine if you took the shot of Dirty Harry holding his revolver in the "do you feel lucky?" scene and cut out everything but the revolver). Also, I'm fairly sure the player and world models for weapons are exactly the same in this game. Still, it's not that hard to get close when you're recording video rather than taking individual screenshots, and it's even easier to get close to the totally broken Raven Sword AI in Act 3. Plus you can get great views of almost all the PMC weapons in cutscenes anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:53, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I didn't mean cropping the images so that only the guns are visible; I was just saying that with Stealth camo you could get within punching (or kissing) distance of the various NPCs in the game so you could get good pics of them holding their weapons without the annoying black-screen parts from scopes or the HUD marks in the centre of the screen if you use Snake's binocular's or the mini-Metal Gear's camera view. Also, could you please please please make a screenshot of the FROG firing her DSR-1 at Big Mama followed by the latter's "I'm fine" despite not wearing any body armour? I find it one of the more unintentionally hilarious parts of the game. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:15, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'll be sure to get that, yes. Though for me the funniest sequence was the part before the "guns of the Patriots" part, where the US Army were pointing guns at Liquid Ocelot's boat and making clicking noises for so long it became ridiculous. Of course the Foxdie scene was funnier, but probably intentional (Snake and Liquid do the "Fox..." "...Die" bit, Liquid Ocelot jumps up and runs away cackling ridiculously and Snake responds by falling over). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Heh heh, it's funny how after the "Guns of the Patriots" scene, Drebin's prices fall flat on their faces with a permanent 50% discount until the end of the game. Of course, that raises the question about why Drebin's prices never go up; wouldn't the complete lock-out of ID-locked firearms mean that the services of gun launderers like Drebin would be more in demand than ever (resulting in a huge price increase), even if just to keep the Rebels who use naked guns from killing all the ID-locked gun users? It's just another entry in the long list of this game's realism problems. And of course, the first FOXDIE scene is another manifestation of how wrong it was to let Kojima direct the game, since he's so firmly stuck in MGS1's shadow the plot of MGS4 is so firmly stuck in the first game's mold. Of course, that's got nothing to do with the weaponry in the game, but I'm still looking forward to this page's completion nonetheless. By the way, have you seen Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN!" ability in Metal Gear Online yet?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:47, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:I must admit I've never played MGO. As for Kojima, I think he was at his best in MGS3 when he was making a tribute to something he loved (the old spy movies that had inspired the series in the first place, with their cool gadgets and ridiculous villians) and he's at his worst when he's trying to force out a game he seems to have regarded as his obligation; I remember that he didn't really want to be involved in 4 and only came back on board after the fans raised a stink about his being absent. He strikes me as a lot like Lucas, who was great when he was making a tribute to the old-fashioned sci-fi he grew up with and hideous when he was left making something he didn't really care for except as a way to make money. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:57, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

Funny that you mentioned George Lucas. I have to wonder whether or not Kojima took some inspiration from Lucas when he decided to make his newest, completely over-referenced MacGuffin: nanomachines that do almost everything, from track biological functions to serve as ID keys, even form the basis for mind control or emotional manipulation. Kind of reminded me of Lucas' "midi-chlorians," since the two of them are both blood-borne squiggly things. Oh well, the fans, like everyone else, don't always know how what they want isn't necessarily what they need. And even the greatest of us can succumb to "Creator's Conceit," whereupon one starts believing in the delusion that "because I made this best-selling piece of media, I can change it however I want, heedless of the needs of believability, plausibility, realism or even my own previous work." Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN" ability in Metal Gear Online can be seen in full force [http://youtu.be/XM7yc5Gf_OU here]. You should give Metal Gear Online a try if you have the money; its training mode is great for taking pictures of the unique characters and their weapons, and it is the only mode where you can use the ballistic shield, or hear the various multiplayer characters do their Rambo impressions while firing an M60E4. Once again, a hearty thank you for your hard work. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:26, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think I'm immune to stupid depictions of nanomachines after playing the two ''Deus Ex'' games, expecially the second one where you apparently have a nanoforge in every weapon that makes the relevant ammo type out of a universal base material ''as you fire''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Also, I'm trying to remember: I know there's no flashback of Vulcan Raven, but wasn't there one of Sniper Wolf that showed her PSG-1 at one point? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:59, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

::The various flashbacks in Act 4 can be found [http://youtu.be/81A3yb_FATg here] and [http://youtu.be/aznWCpBYkKQ here]. You can check those out at your leisure. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:50, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

:::The links you're posting don't work [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

::Pardon me, they're fixed now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:13, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Right, that's me out for today, getting sleepy. Got a lot more caps to get off this Act 1 video, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:13, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think if you see Sniper Wolf's PSG-1 it's part of Crying Wolf's death scene or Naomi's (I seem to recall there's an X button prompt when Otacon is getting upset about that whole thing where everyone he displays the slightest affection for dies instantly), which that doesn't have. Regardless, been a little busy, but should have some new caps up soon. I'm trying to get everything with a Browning M2, so IIRC I still need the Stryker MGS from Act 2, the Humvee in Act 3 and the derelict M1 tank in the hanger in Act 4. I'll finally be able to take that "Incomplete" down once I get a shot of Rex, Ray or one of ''Missouri's'' Phalanxes. Also might see if I can ID those two giant cannons on Liquid's boat, at least in a caption. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:10, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was right, you ''do'' have an X button flashback there. There's also a painting of Big Boss holding his old Mark 22 in Big Mama's church, because it makes sense for one of those to be there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:12, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Having never had a chance to really pay attention to the Vamp / Raiden fight until now, I must admit I laughed my ass off at the part where Raiden has both arms pinned to his back and so blocks Vamp's arm and then throws him using only his teeth. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:36, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Ok, going to be redoing all these caps soon (seen [[Dark Sector]] for why, comparing the new shots with the ones of the Spectre and G36; I've now got an official Sony component cable, so the red after-image from my third-party cable on the [[Bodycount]] page is gone). Going to be kind of "fun" trying to get the same shots all over again, I'll probably be updating all the basic weapon images tomorrow or so and then starting on recording the levels. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:53, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

:The things we do for this wiki . . . well, I'm glad you're willing to get more screenshots over something that isn't very visible on the thumbnails. Are you talking about the red-tinged edges that can be seen on some of your screenshots on the Bodycount page? That's known as chromatic abberration, but I can't see much of it on the MGS4 screenshots myself. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:01, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::Naw, the red was just why I was holding out for the Sony cable, that's why it isn't on the Dark Sector images (I now have it). The reason I'm going to replace these images is they're taken using a much lower-resolution capture device than the one I now have (a Pinnacle Dazzle rather than a Hauppage HD-PVR). You'll see the difference. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:45, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

OK, here's the difference:

[[Image:MGS4-1911Cus.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:MGS4-M1911Cus-HQ.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I'll resize the rest to 1280x720 or so rather than all of them being as big as that one, it's kinda unnecessary when they're only shown on the page at 600px anyway. The weird effect at full resolution is how the pause menu is actually supposed to look, to those not familiar with MGS4. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:50, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:YES. Better resolution is ALWAYS welcome. Looking forward to seeing more MGS "gun porn" in HD, as well as seeing some other issues resolved (such as whether the M10 and M60E4 are closed-bolt firearms in this game or their original open-bolt versions, just how Old Snake holds the M10 in a two-handed fashion with no foregrip, suppressor, or strap to put his offhand on, etc.). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:01, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::If Snake is holding the MAC-10 in a two-handed grip without the aid of an foregrip, suppressor, or strap, he would hold it in a Weaver-stance or a CAR-stance. I saw a screen shot of him using the MAC-10 and he held it in a Weaver-stance like a handgun while utilizing the stock, which makes good practical sense. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:28, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:I see. Regardless, I'm surprised that Kojima didn't slap on a "modernizing conversion" for the MAC-10 in this game, such as made available by [http://www.max-11.com/ Lage Mfg], which in short makes the gun much easier to handle by increasing the length of the barrel and handguard to add space for rails (and their accessories), a foregrip and folding buttstock, along with a mechanism that reduces the rate of fire to 600 RPM from 1100 RPM. This sort of conversion kit would essentially turn the MAC-10 into a close competitor for the HK UMP, except that this "MAX-10" version would be easier to instinctively reload since the magazine goes in the pistol grip. Too bad that the only .45 SMG in this game just isn't that good; whatever else can be said about the MAC-10, ergonomics were clearly not emphasized in its original design. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:45, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

::From what I know, the MAC-10 has inferior reliability compared to the UZI and pretty much any other SMG design. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

Just a couple of new images tonight, going to do the rest of this video tomorrow. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:44, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and here's Otacon explaining why the AK jammed:

[[Image:MGS4-Otaconsez.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Also, there was apparently more than one cartridge in the chamber. That might have been a problem too."]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:48, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:I think that's pretty cool he explains what possibly happened to the weapon, you don't get that in very many games. But it still doesn't explains ''how'' this happened to an AK, I could expect that from an AR, but an AK? Like I said on the page, Snake must have REALLY bad luck. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:25, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::Well, he's not the only one, I noticed at least one of the rebels struggling with the charging handle of his AK during the same sequence. It must just be ''really'' bad ammo. Maybe it's special ''Far Cry 2'' ammo made from blasting caps and dynamite. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:36, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::I think you just solved it mate. ;) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:20, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

Had a few problems with my footage being blurry (not in the shots I actually uploaded, mind) which I think is my old PC. A suitably beefy PC should be winging it's way to me in the next couple of weeks. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:45, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:I've already had my new beefed-up PC a couple of weeks. :D Now I'm counting down the days for BF3. >:B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:09, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

::Then let us do as men have done for centuries and compare the lengths of our, um, computers. Mine's going to be an i7 2600K overclocked to 4.6 GHz, SLI 2 x 1,536 meg GeForce cards, 16 gigs RAM, 120 gig SSD + 3 terabyte data drive. I imagine it'll just be able to scare Crysis into running. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:05, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot requests ==

I know Evil Tim's busy, but this might be a good opportunity to let him know what screenshots might be appropriate to showcase each weapon.
*Five-seveN pistol: Old Snake commits "sexual assault" at gunpoint by holding up a FROG trooper with her own pistol while patting her down for items, along with the "crotch grab" move.
*MAC-10/G18C: Old Snake tries out for a movie of "Bonnie and Clyde" while performing a drive-by shooting from Big Mama's motorcycle.
*M4 Custom: For some reason, Old Snake has taken up the habit of shooting this carbine while holding it sideways.
*Shansi Type 17: Big Mama gets her awesome on by shooting up some Dwarf Gekko drones with her Type 17 pistol.
*MP7A1: Isn't there a PMC in Act 2 carrying this weapon who is distracted by a Playboy Magazine?
Sometimes funny screenshots make entries on this wiki all the more entertaining to read. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

*Might try that
*Almost certainly going to do something like that
*When does he hold it sideways, again?
*Yes
*Yes

Also, totally going to show how you can kill a Gekko with the SVD. Just a note: you don't have to call him Old Snake in every caption. The game only calls him that occasionally and he's "Snake" the rest of the time, and it's not like this is MGS1 and there's two people potentially called "Snake" (even in that case, they always call him Snake and his brother Liquid, so there's only minimal potential for confusion). I could see there being some issues with what to call Big Boss in 3, but this guy is still Snake. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:06, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:I call him "Old Snake" because that's the name above his lifebar, and because that name clearly refers to him in the MGS4 time period. Of course, if you really want to be pedantic, it could be argued that Liquid Snake and Solid Snake should have called each other Liquid and Solid instead of Liquid and Snake (I think the latter combination was chosen because it sounds less silly). If you prefer to just call him Snake in the article, feel free to change that part pack. And Old Snake holds his M4A1 carbine sideways once when engaging the Pieuvre Armement PMCs who are taking Naomi away after headshotting Vamp. Another US Marine aboard the Missouri holds his M4A1 Carbine while trembling with fear as the Dwarf Gekkos execute a boarding action right outside the Missouri's bridge. That's all I can remember right now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:37, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and if you want to show the Vulcan Cannons on the Missouri battleship, shouldn't you include the dramatic close-up shot of its CIWS cannons firing like hell trying to intercept the swarm of anti-ship missiles launched from Outer Haven? The one available now only shows the CIWS cannons in a distant shot. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:58, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:The one you're thinking of is a rather dull closeup of the installation from the ''rear'', I wanted this one because it shows the main guns and looks awesome. The Phalanx shots are exclusively taken to show off ''Missouri'', the installations can piss off. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:15, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Incidentally

[[Image:MGS4-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Ray should not have been allowed to use the hydrocutter as it's opening attack. >:( Also, just noticed that half the "Street Fighter" attacks use the beak to grab Ray, even though it's where Snake is sitting and at least two of them would clearly kill him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Question ==

Do real suppressors degrade like in MGS3 and MGS4? I think not, or at least it's ''very'' exaggerated in these game. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:50, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:old style wipe suppressors do degrade over time. Maxim type supressors and supressors designed after the 1960s don't degrade. You will have to clean them out after combat load but with the lenght of most computer games it should not be an issue as there isn't the time for junk to build up to the point where the supressor will fail. Basically if you take the time to clean you equipment every so often things should't go bad. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:32, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thank you. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:45, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:Yep, suppressors in this game are another problem with its realism. The wipe-style suppressors in MGS3 would indeed degrade, sometimes after as low as 5 to 10 shots. Modern suppressors can last for thousands of rounds of semiautomatic fire, but less if fully-automatic fire is used.
:In reality, detachable suppressors fitted to weapons with supersonic ammunition (Drebin doesn't sell subsonic versions of normally supersonic ammunition, such as 5.56mm NATO, 7.62mm NATO, etc.) would not be as stealthy as depicted, especially at the ranges you fight at in this game. Try dropping a phone book from a height of 5 feet (or 150 cm in metric) onto a hard floor that is not covered by a rug or carpet--that's close to what even the best suppressors can do. At most of the ranges you shoot at in this game, real people would definitely notice (if not necessarily know where you are) and would immediately trigger a caution phase unless your first shot killed someone who was all by his lonesome. Suppressors can't deal with the sonic boom caused by supersonic ammunition, either, which can alert people. This is why the quietest suppressed weapons use subsonic ammunition (such as .45 ACP, or Russian 9x39mm ammo, etc.), or a special integral suppressor (like that on the MP5SD2) that slows supersonic ammunition down to subsonic speeds. Even that doesn't do anything for the clacking noises caused by the cycling of a (semi)automatic weapon's action, which is why the tranquilizer pistols in MGS2, 3, and 4 all use slide locks to eliminate that.
:Another problem is that suppressors, by slowing down the hot gas from fired rounds, cause a gun to overheat faster (because the slowed gas has more time to impart its heat to the weapon). Again, this is generally not a problem unless you forgo all fire discipline and keep firing in full auto; then you might have reason to detach an overheated suppressor and put a new one in place. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:08, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
Last time I helped put rounds through a MP5 with a detachable suppressor it took a bit for the suppressor to cool enough that it could be removed from the barrel. Of course we put 120 rounds through it with mostly magazine dumps as we were just testing the guns function.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:36, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Thanks guys. Well a suppressor is not meant to suppress gun fire so people in the same room can't hear it, it's meant so people in the whole building and in the city outside the building can't hear it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:46, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:Oops, forgot to mention that another way to remove the "clack-clack" sounds of a firearm's action (which can be louder than a suppressed gun's muzzle blast if the suppressor is good enough), aside from slide locks. Any type of round cycling that needs to be manually operated (such as bolt action, pump-action, etc.) will eliminate that sound. Too bad the DSR-1 couldn't be suppressed in this game; combined with its bolt action you'd get a very powerful, quiet, and lethal counterpart to the Mosin Nagant tranq rifle. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:45, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

Is possible to silence revolver then? Like in BO2?

== Just checking something ==

Of the M4, Drebin says "The barrel's free floating, of course." Now, you can see from the shot of Snake firing that even the ''handguard'' isn't free-floating, but isn't it a contradiction in terms for a direct impingement rifle to have a free-floating barrel since the barrel ''has'' to be touching something other than the receiver, namely the gas tube? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:08, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:I hear of free-floating barrels on AR-15s all the time, I think "free-floating" means nothing but the receiver (and the gas tube) is holding the barrel in place. At least, that's what I know. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:36, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
It could be a bit of "Kojima nonsense" that snuck its way into the script (kind of like how Drebin claims the PMCs love to use the M4A1 Carbine, when in fact none of them do, and the game gives you the impression that Drebin is just foisting off old, obsolete stock onto Old Snake). After all, are we really supposed to believe that Fatman from Metal Gear Solid 2 built his first atomic bomb(!) at age 10? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:56, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
::I guess it could also be a translation error of some kind, since there's a few of those knocking around; I've just got to the first case of them mangling a symmetrical sentence by having Naomi alternate "fate" and "destiny" rather than just saying "it" the second time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Or it could be Kojima's notoriously inconsistent stance on the realism/unrealism scale, especially when it comes to weaponry. First in MGS2 they let us render any enemy limb useless in a single lethal weapon hit (a feature that never returned), but in that same game they let us use the Stinger Missile Launcher indoors (even though that kind of weapon would cause a cave-in or flooding in the Plant chapter). And now they ask us to believe that in some scenes, professional PMC operators can't hit Snake when he's in spitting distance (such as after he shoot Vamp in the head in South America). That scene might have worked if he was hiding some distance away using Octocamo, though. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:07, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and one more thing about the M4A1 in this game; why would you need to have a free-floating barrel on an automatic carbine? Wouldn't it just be simpler to insert a longer barrel, which would increase both accuracy and the bullet's effective range? Or, if you have the resources, you could always use better rounds (like the real life Mk 262) which have both longer effective range and accuracy than the standard 5.56mm NATO rounds in service now. That speech of Drebin's just makes him look like a "used car salesman"--it reeks of hucksterism. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:04, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown pistol ==

Any idea what this is in Johnny Sasaki's leg holster? USP, maybe?

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:26, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, even I'm a bit stumped, it's almost featureless. o_0 - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:12, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was going by the features it doesn't have, more. It's got a horizontal base to the grip while holstered, which rules out any 1911-based pistol, but it doesn't have a beavertail bigger than the one on an actual beaver, so it can't be a Desert Eagle. It's obviously not any pistol that's available in the game unless it's a very small Mark 23, and a very small Mark 23 is called a USP. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:25, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, am I hideously mistaken or is the Mk. 46 Mod 1 actually a Mod 0? The handguard doesn't look right for a Mod 1. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:01, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:Based on what the model looks like it could be a featureless USP or P226 (it's too small for a Mark 23), but without the said "features" it's almost impossible tell what it is. It could also be just a generic "holster stuffer". :P (P.S. what's the deference between the Mk. 46 Mod 1 and the Mod 0, I've only seen the Mod 0?) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:59, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::The forearm of the Mod 1 lacks the rail at the 12 o'clock position (FN Herestal has pictures of the Mod 1 on their website [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF055&gid=FNG008]). There's probably other differences, but either Google is failing me, or there's no info about on the Mod 1 upgrades on the entire internet. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:48, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:::[http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF059&gid=FNG008&mid=FNM0039 FN USA] says "improved receiver pins, a feed tray with retention pawls and a vented handguard with improved heat shield and three MIL-STD 1913 rails." Now, I've checked the reload animation and you can see it's got a 12-o-clock rail on the handguard, so it's a Mod 0. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

::Also, of those two it'd have to be the USP, the SIG would have two screws visible holding the grips on. What I can tell you is the shape is intentional; it's ''not'' the same model used in PMC holsters; the ones I checked have a diagonal base to the grip and therefore are obviously supposed to be a GSR. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:34, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

Just to add these:

[[Image:MGS4-FROG-Holster.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FROG holster weapon, probably Five-seveN]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PMC Holster weapon, clearly GSR.]]
[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another angle on Johnny's weapon, and one where they seem to have forgotten to add that delightful skidmark to his trousers, too.]]

Incidentally, ID'ing this one will take us up to 76 weapons with only one not ID'd (the land mine). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:25, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

But it doesn't have the finger tip-shaped slots at the mag well to be a USP ether... In the last pic of Johnny the pistol now looks like a stubby Desert Eagle because of the way the grip looks. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:53, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Well, there should be some closer shots of it when I finally get off my ass and get around to recording and capping stage 3, there's a lot of closeups of the Rat Patrol members at the end of that one that should settle it if it actually is something. Interestingly, Meryl also has that holster as part of her uniform, but hers is empty (Deagle the first has a horizontal chest holster). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Think this is the best shot you're likely to get. Now, I'm going to bed, I just spent hours recording the entire third Act and at least half of the fourth and it's 3am. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:57, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::In more ways than one. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:33, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:Looks kinda like a Desert Eagle with the beavertail milled down, wow this is hard. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:27, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::Seems it's actually a Mark 23, since Raiden's character weapon (aside from a heap of pointy things) is a Mark 23, and he has the same holster. Holster looks to be very similar to [http://airsoftbb4u.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=402 one of these]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:10, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::You could be right, but still looks off from a Mark 23, I see a metal tang on the grip like the Desert Eagle. Err. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:04, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Might just be a mistake in the model. It's certainly supposed to be a Mark 23 (it's Raiden's only gun in multi), but since they never draw them (unlike FROGs and PMCs, who do draw their sidearms if they're disarmed), there was probably no obligation to actually put a drawable gun in there. I can't remember if Johnny pulls out his sidearm when they're defending the door or not, I'll have to see if they'll actually settle it for us or not. Otherwise we'll just have to say it's an inaccurate Mark 23. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:09, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Johnny does use his sidearm there. He uses a GSR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)

== Note about the M4 and the "big PMCs" ==
They ''did'' use the M4 in early builds of the game [http://ranger.gamebanana.com/img/ss/srends/thm__2863-.jpg] [http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/God-of-Reapers/metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-p-1.jpg], but it was changed to the Mark 17 at some point for some unknown reason. Snake even got ''his'' M4 by taking it from a PMC in an early trailer. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)
:Regarding the Patriot, wouldn't it fall under the same hideously ill-defined "PDW" label as the XM8 Compact? It does rather seem that PDW just stands for whatever your marketing department wants it to: HK definately called the XM8 compact a PDW in sales fluff, and invented the term because they didn't want to call their compact MP5K the MP5 Kurz Kurz as far as I can tell. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:14, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:On the subject of the M4: the article mentions that the handguard isn't free floating like Drebin says. However, I'm pretty sure the rail is carbine length KAC URX which is free floating. Also, the MP5K-PDW isn't a compact MP5K; it's an MP5K with a stock added. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 09:01, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

::Look at the shot of Snake firing the M4 into the camera and you can see there's a circular cap on the front of the rail handguard which contacts the barrel: a KAC URX doesn't have such a cap, which is why it's free-floating while this one isn't. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:42, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

::Also the delta ring between the rail system and the receiver. URX mates with the receiver to form an uninterrupted top rail for optics. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:56, 24 November 2011 (CST)

PDW is indeed something of a term that is a bit too nebulous. I've even heard the term applied to the select-fire variant of the Mauser C96 being described as a PDW since it could mount a shoulder stock and used ammo that was "armour piercing." Still, the question I raised earlier on this page as to the point of mounting a free-floating handguard onto an M4A1 carbine remains--isn't a free-floating barrel mainly for sniper or designated marksmen weapons, not for CQB full-auto weapons? And wouldn't greater long-distance accuracy be achieved more simply by using a longer barrel or enhanced ammunition? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:With regard to free-float rails: there's more to it than just accuracy. Keeping the rails from contacting the barrel means that any accessories mounted on the weapon will be affected less by the vibrations that occur during firing. This helps keep vertical grips and the like from coming loose, and any optics/lasers/IR designators mounted on the forearm will have an easier time retaining their zero. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:12, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

Well, that does make a bit more sense, but it still sounds like the sort of thing a National Army wouldn't issue--though it wouldn't be out of place among civilians or Private Military Contractors. Don't National Armies train for accurate semiautomatic fire whenever possible from anything that isn't an LMG, and if you fire enough fully-automatic rounds to affect the zero of accessories mounted on the handguard, doesn't that mean you're doing something wrong? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== XM8 Compact ==

Why is the XM8 Compact under the SMG/PDW section? PDW or not, 5.56x45mm should go to the Assault rifles. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I was considering moving it to go with the Patriot. I'll do that tomorrow assuming someone doesn't beat me to it, and I'll remove "PDW" from the other heading since it's such a vague, useless class of weapons that seems to include everything gun company marketing departments feel like including from SMGs firing pistol rounds to compact assault rifles. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm not sure about that; I think PDW is still useful to describe select-fire SCHV (small caliber, high velocity) two-handed firearms using proprietary rounds purpose-built for armour-piercing properties, like the 5.7x28mm, the 4.6x30mm, the 6.5x25mm, etc. that aren't (machine) pistols. Having said that, I would agree about how the label can be abused (the MP5K-PDW should have just received an "A" designation such as the MP5KA6 or the like). Still, I have to wonder if Akiba was given the XM8 Compact to show that Meryl "wears the pants" in their relationship--at a 9-inch barrel length, the XM8 (ultra)compact carbine is shorter than Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle, which is 10 inches long.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:08, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:The trouble I have with the PDW label is either (a) it just means SMG so there's no point including it or (b) it includes all the stupid things that are called PDWs but aren't SMGs. Sure, the SCHV rounds aren't all used by pistols so not all PDWs are ''technically'' SMGs, but all PDW rounds are dimensioned like pistol cartridges and most have pistols designed and / or manufactured to shoot them anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing is, if you really want to be pedantic, an SMG is really just a select-fire pistol-caliber carbine. In my view the PDW label is still useful for a narrower class of weapons than most users of the label think, and should only be used if the weapon meets all of the following characteristics.

*Proprietary PDW rounds are designed from the ground up as armour-piercing rounds (piercing Level IIIA ballistic armour or lower), and resemble miniaturized assault rifle ammunition (by virtue of its dimensions and spitzer shape) rather than traditional pistol ammunition. So by this definition the PP-2000 would not be a PDW since it's still using 9x19mm rounds, just in an armour-piercing configuration.
*A stock and foregrip must be present on the weapon for it to be considered a PDW, since both simplify aiming (which is very important in a CQB situation). So a select-fire Five-seveN or C96 are still not PDWs (instead, they are just armour-piercing machine pistols) since it lacks the ability to have both of those features. An MP5K PDW has both a stock and foregrip but doesn't meet the first requirement, and is therefore just a compact SMG with a folding stock and small foregrip.
*A true PDW must have select-fire or fully-automatic fire capability, otherwise it just becomes a fancy carbine like the PS90.

You have to admit that PDW is a more convenient acronym than something like SCHV SMG or the like. We could just go with something like "AP (armour-piercing) SMG" but that would bring stuff like the PP-2000 back into the mix. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:27, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

::Actually, an SMG is a super-light machine gun firing a pistol round: remember the category comes from the first world war before the concept of an intermediate round even existed. And the problem is most users of the label include most companies that say their weapons are PDWs; there's such a huge number of bad examples and so few good ones that it isn't really worth using it, IMO. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

:My google-fu's rather weak right now, but aside from H&K marketing derivatives of the MP5 and XM8 as PDWs I don't know of companies that are marketing SMGs or compact assault rifles with the PDW label, when in fact they don't meet the requirements I outlined earlier. Maybe you could point me in the right direction? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 23:32, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::Wikipedia says the Jatimatic was marketed as a PDW back when HK invented the term, and since the 5.7mm has realised its friends would still like it if it came out as a pistol round anything that fires that is basically a subgun in the normal sense of the term. Magpul's PDR Shirow-gun fires a full-sized 5.56mm, the Chinese QCW-05 fires the 5.8x21mm pistol round, the VBR-Belgium PDW fires the 7.92x24mm pistol round...It's fair to say most things called PDWs don't qualify in the strictest sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:00, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:The "Shirow-gun"? And here I was thinking firearms designed for Ghost in the Shell at least made some sense, even if their service pistol caliber choice was a little iffy on the stopping power side (BTW, the Seburo Firearms page should not have been removed from this wiki). PDW rounds fired out of pistols seem a little iffy to me as well; if HK had to cancel its UCP for "inadequate ballistics in a pistol platform," what makes the Five-seveN/QSZ-92/VBR 7.92 Glock that much better? In any case, the Magpul PDR is just a compact bullpup carbine in 5.56mm NATO, and the 5.8x21mm round (how is this better than the 5.7x28mm round again?) is a miniaturized version of the Chinese 5.8x42mm assault rifle round, which makes it a PDW round. Maybe we could compromise and call them "CQDWs" for "Close Quarters Defensive Weapons" to show how they are meant to be stowed in "Close Quarters" and are most effective in CQB range as well, given their shorter cases compared to full-size assault rifle rounds? Making a poll on the forum asking whether or not the PDW label should be expunged from the site might be useful as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:23, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Again, though, I don't really see the point of using a label that's just going to cause a lot of confusion with not-examples and pseudo-examples. Anything that is categorised as a PDW in the strictest sense is basically an SMG firing AP ammunition. Not using the term rules out all the various pistols and assault rifles that would otherwise sneak into the SMG heading through the vague backdoor marked "PDW." It's sorta like having a category called "Dogs / mammals" next to one saying "cats" and expecting cats to not end up in the dog category. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:I lol'ed at what you said about Akiba and Meryl. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:15, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

Yep, then Akiba tries to "man up" by getting the Barrett M82A2, but then finds he can't "last long." He definitely would have lasted longer if he had gotten something capable of "sustained fire" instead, like the Mk. 46 Mod. 0 coupled with an FN P90 of his own, so either he or Meryl could use the LMG for covering fire while the other goes out to loot P90 magazines from dead FROG troopers and keep wreaking merry hell as long as possible. But no, Kojima had to saddle Akiba with an incredibly impractical Barrett M82A2 (only really useful for killing larger Gekko drones and annoying unmanned Metal Gear RAYs), his old XM8 Compact and a GSR. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:23, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== The MAC-10 in this game ==

Is it an open bolt (the original version) or a closed bolt version? An open bolt version wouldn't need charging after reloading, and wouldn't need to be racked unless the trigger was held down after the last round fired (after which you'd just pull it back to ready the weapon). If the MAC-10 in this game were a closed bolt version, then you would need rack the bolt if you were loading from empty and would indeed eject a round if one were still in the chamber if you racked the bolt. If Old Snake is ejecting a round from the MAC-10 after a mid-magazine reload, then wouldn't it be a closed version? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:27, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'd have to check. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:09, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Another thing you might want to examine is the M60E4; it's still an open bolt weapon last I checked (partly because open bolt weapons run cooler than closed bolt ones, an advantage on an LMG since it means you don't have to change barrels as often). Also, is the M60E4 supposed to be the "very latest model" that the rebel in the Middle Eastern Militia Safe House was boasting about? It would make more sense than an HK21E, since some PMC machine gunners use the M60E4 and it is "the very latest model" of its kind. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:45, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Again, I'll check. In the latter case, I imagine the "very latest model" was probably supposed to be the XM8 LMG: it's the only version missing from the final game. Perhaps they gave the guy the HK21 instead because their playtesters would always kill him to get themselves a free 5.56mm machine gun with a built-in optic. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:30, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Please do. Your considerable efforts on this page are much appreciated. But it wouldn't be the first time a game has used closed bolt versions of weapons that were originally open bolt; Rainbow Six Vegas 2 uses a closed bolt version of the MAC-11 machine pistol, for instance. And the XM8 LMG was always a strange one to me; while the other variants had good advantages for reliability and ease of use for their roles (since their sights didn't need zeroing, had more durable/reliable parts, along with infrared laser pointer/illuminators built into the sight), the XM8 LMG does not have a quick-swap barrel (unlike the M249, for instance) and is a closed bolt weapon which would make its heat buildup more problematic, despite the tougher barrel. In any case, all the game devs had to do to make the XM8 LMG would be to stick a Beta C-mag on the Marksman version of the XM8, since you can't use bipods in this game. The XM8 LMG would have been great in Johnathan's hands, and the standard carbine would then be given to Akiba. Even so, giving that boastful rebel an M60E4 would still require that you spend the money for accessories on a new game, so it wouldn't be as imbalanced as an XM8 LMG.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:34, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== The "PMCs love the (M4)" line ==

In my edit I did NOT specify which voice track language I was referring to (for all I know, that line could also have been in the original JP version). What I was commenting on was how the recording for that scene was probably done before the decision was made to have the PMC guys use the SCAR-H rather than have them actually use the M4-type carbines (as seen in the preview images someone posted earlier). While not wrong to begin with, the fact that they didn't go back to re-do that scene based on the new weapon assignment leave me scratching my head. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 01:26, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, but it's hardly the only strange mistake made in that scene; Drebin also says it has a free-floating barrel even though there's clearly a circular end cap connecting the rail handguard to the barrel, and also that the US Army uses it even though in-game they don't. It's hard to say if it's something that used to be true, a mistake, or just Drebin playing salesman and hoping Snake doesn't notice the more obvious BS in his pitch. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just my personal observation, but I don't think Drebin's 'pretty popular with the big PMCs' line must necessarily mean that the M4 Custom is their standard-issue weapon. Maybe, in-universe, this version of the M4 is perhaps more like a weapon custom-made by the Drebins, and naturally sold exclusively by them. Perhaps he refers to veteran members of the PMCs buying them with their own fundings? Just my theory here, maybe I'm looking too much into it. --[[User:Researcher|Researcher]] 21:01, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:It's also a possibility that ''everyone'' used the M4 Custom in a previous build of the game and the changes were made after the voice overs were recorded. There's really nothing in the game to prove the M4 isn't still the US Army's standard combat weapon. Meryl's "Army/Marines" team is a very, very, very small fraction of the entire US military and them using XM8s means nothing, otherwise HK416 use by Delta Force is proof that that weapon is used by the whole US Army, which we all know isn't true. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:39, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

::The problem is we have no evidence at all of that being the case; the only standard rifle we see any US soldier using during the duration of the game is the XM8, and the only one the PMCs use is the SCAR. Made-up reasoning to fill over a hole in the game world's logic is referred to in some circles as "plot spackle." To go with your example, if the US Army were fictional and we had only ever seen soldiers with HK416s, it would be correct to say we have no evidence the US Army uses anything but the HK416, and if someone said they used the M4, we would point out we've never actually seen them do so and the HK416 appears to be their standard weapon. When interpreting fiction, seeing is believing; characters can lie, exaggerate and be wrong, but a bunch of guys carrying one gun and not the other is a pretty airtight argument as ti which weapon they use. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:39, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just found out something interesting... ==

HD remakes of all the previous games are apparently being released on PSN and possibly Live in November, so I'll hold out for them before screencapping those pages. Apparently they're going to sling in ''Peace Walker'' for PS3, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:15, 9 July 2011 (CDT

:Are they going to retexture MGS2 and MGS3 for this collection? I hope so, because MGS2 is horribly bland with its textures, far more than MGS3 was. I'd do MGS2 myself, I don't have a capture card and the PC version I have is not well programmed for PC graphics cards, so you often end up with a lot of graphical errors. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 11:48, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

::From the sounds of things it's going to be retextured MGS2, retextured MGS3 and probably retextured Twin Snakes running in the MGS4 engine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:02, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

:::That sounds cool. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

Last I heard it was only for the X Box 360. Good news that it's being released on the PS3 as well. Might mean that we're going to see it on the PC (fingers crossed). --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:10, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

== Drebins Camo Trousers ==
hi guys, wondering if anyone can tell me that make/pattern drebins trousers are, i mean obviously they are desert but im not sure what brand.

[http://images.wikia.com/metalgear/images/c/ca/DrebinMGS4.jpg] --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 10:48, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

Pattern would be something like "desert tiger stripe" and there's a similar-looking set of trousers [http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/original_desert_tiger_stripe.htm here]. His look to be bleached a bit lighter or something, but it's the same basic pattern. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:04, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

== A minor controversy over the Operator suicide scene ==

The English voice actor of Old Snake, David Hayter, caused a minor controversy among gaming journalists and the MGS fandom when he said he [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rH-cYUiogI didn't find Old Snake's reluctance to commit suicide to be believable]. Now that the relevant screenshot is in this wiki entry, I thought it deserved some explanation. In David Hayter's words, he says ''". . . Snake would put a bullet in, and put [the gun] in his mouth and just pop himself, like he's killed--he's killed how many countless thousands of people, and he's going to shake because he's going to kill himself? I didn't agree with that at all and begged them to change it . . . ."'' --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:05, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

:Hm, I don't really buy that. He's killed ''other'' people, sure, but confronting the end of your own existence and what might come next isn't going to be easy unless you're incredibly secure in your convictions as to what will happen (and Snake hardly strikes me as devoutly religious) or too stupid to comprehend that's what you're doing. It's not like it's a spur of the moment "I have to do this" thing, after all. Mind you, I really don't think we needed to see him going down on the Operator for quite as long as he did. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:45, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

Even so, I think he's used to fearlessly facing death, even if it's virtually certain (such as when he faced Metal Gear REX before Grey Fox intervened in MGS1, or during his hopeless duel with Fortune in MGS2). And "going down on the Operator"--that's a nice wordplay. Still, I think it's a little disappointing how what comes next is available at any difficulty--it would be more of an incentive to play on harder difficulties if you only got the complete scene after doing something such as completing the Boss Extreme difficulty or getting a Big Boss emblem. Otherwise, you'd only see:

*Old Snake smoking a last cig before fading to black and the last gunshot after finishing Liquid Easy.
*The scene where he sucks his gun off (again fading to black with the last gunshot) after finishing Solid Normal.
*A short cut after the final gunshot showing the gun and its smoking barrel in Old Snake's gnarled hand, fading to black after finishing Big Boss Hard.
*And the complete ending scene after finishing The Boss Extreme.

It would also have been a nice touch if you got to see the ghostly forms of all the people you killed throughout the game or the people Old Snake couldn't save (which means, at a minimum, Liquid Ocelot, Naomi and Big Mama) surrounding Old Snake in the cemetery as he puts the gun in his mouth, as he will join them in death very soon. Such a scene would be a nice reference to the Sorrow's River in MGS3. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:42, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

*I don't know, facing almost certain death is different to facing ''actual'' certain death, especially when it's for something as abstract as the human race rather than something as concrete as someone right in front of you. Also, in both those cases his other option was being killed by the thing he was facing, so he ''didn't'' pick the "certain death" option. Also, given Naomi's record for telling the truth, he's probably worried that shooting himself would just make the bullet ricochet off his superior genes, kill the person who was ''actually'' going to cure the disease and overpenetrate to also kill the world's most adorable kitten which was behind that guy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:18, 31 July 2011 (CDT)

I think the best real world explanation on why Snake's Operator locked back when he had no mag was that he could have possibly pressed the slide release up and hence locking it back by accident. I've seen people accidentally lock the slide back when they accidentally push the slide release up with a loaded mag in. It could have just been the mistake of the animator that they drew a mag follower when there shouldn't have been a mag inside the gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:56, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

A buddy of mine told me that dropping a round into the chamber like what Snake did would really risk accidentally setting the gun off and he seriously tells me to never do that in real life for any gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:26, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::Hideo Kojima thinks so as well. He was forced to add that scene after the credits, I hear. In his mind, Snake did kill himself-protoAuthor 17:31, 24 November 2011 (CST)

:::Actually the original ending would have been Snake and Otacon being hanged for treason (it's not clear who by). Hence "Here's to you" over the credits, which is about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_and_Vanzetti these two]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:57, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

"Also, given Naomi's record for telling the truth..." ...makes me facepalm at how proponents of the suicide ending stick to her claims of Snake becoming a biological weapon as if they're the words of Jesus himself. Seriously, if someone attempted to assassinate ''you'' with a biological weapon and that person later told you that you were in danger of ''becoming'' a biological weapon, would you really actually believe that person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:14, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== Operator ==

I think Snake's main 1911 is closer to a TRP Operator than a standard MC Operator. It has a Target cut rear sight, full length guide rod, extended magazine well and front strap checkering. Standard MEUSOC 1911s like the MC Operator and the Kimber Warrior don't have these features. I know it's not a huge difference but I think it may be worth mentioning.
:I just realized that TRPs are usually bushingless. I think it's more of a frankengun with features from both but I still think it's closer to the TRP so I changed the picture. Hope no one minds.
::I think we'll stick with the MC, it's heavily modified from either regardless of what it originally might have been. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:57, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== screenshots ==

I've taken some screen shots from MGS4 of most of the guns from a side on view I've uploaded a few as an example. The first is snake loading a cartridge into the breech of the thor, the second you can see the compensator working on the G18C, the third is snake screaming Rambo style. [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:THOR_breech_load.jpg]] [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:G18C_working_compensator.jpg]] [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Rambo_Scream.jpg]]
I've got more like them if anyone wants me to upload them just want to see what you think. [[User:Whatmename|Whatmename]]

You couldn't have taken bigger screen shots? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:31, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:<s>Certainly doable, yes. I'm going to be re-doing all the other shots when I have some time off work next month, I'll pick those up at the same time.</s> Edit: oh, wait, that wasn't Excalibur asking me to take bigger ones. Nevermind, I'll take bigger ones of those things, Whatmename, don't worry about uploading yours. Best that every shot comes from the same capture device and method, it makes the page look tidier. Besides, we don't really need side-on shots of most of the weapons since we've already got the inventory images for that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:09, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

I think that screenshot from the G18C shows that the muzzle flash doesn't quite fit where the compensator port is supposed to be. I think the only video games I've seen that correctly emulate the compensated muzzle flash are Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 1 and 2. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:21, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

== M4 Custom RAS ==

Regarding the confusion regarding the RAS on the M4 custom.

The in game RAS resembles two offerings from KAC, the Carbine RAS and the free floating RAS.
[http://www.knightarmco.com/mod_weapons_1.htm Knights ArmCo RAS]

The carbine RAS replaces the standard handguards and is secured with the default delta ring and end-cap.
The free floating RAS replaces the entire handguard, including the delta ring; replacing it with a visually distinctive locking ring. The end-cap in not employed.

The in-game model has the locking ring from the free-floating RAS but the end-cap from the carbine RAS.

IMHO this was done so that the game engine wouldn't have to render the interior surfaces for the RAS and barrel.

:Given we have other errors due to using airsoft guns as models, I think it's more likely that they used an airsoft replica. A cheaply made plastic RAS might have issues with snapping off if it wasn't secured at both ends. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:47, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:Also, I'm going to be replacing almost every picture on this page with HD versions soon, so don't worry too much about new ones, it just gives me more work. Put any suggestions here or on my talk page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:02, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

== Playing this again and disappointed in weapons ==

Decided to pop this back in and am a bit disappointed on how limited the guns are. The M4 is really the only gun you can fully accessorize and even then it was limited to what was available at the time of development. I didn't like the old style Aimpoint sight, no EOtech sight and I couldn't customized other guns like putting a red dot on the MP5. or the FAL. Since I've first played this game, I've learned how to shoot guns and I am a bit put off on how Snake not using the mag release button on rifles and ejecting a live round for only rifles and for some reason, not the handguns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:05, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I'm playing through this one again, too. I think that the gun ''selection'' is good, but I'm with you on the customization. They really could have explored more options as far as accessories go. As for him not using the bolt catch and ejecting live rounds...well, Snake is a professional, and I guess he has his own way of doing things. There's not really anything wrong with either of those (well, ejecting chambered rounds is pretty weird). It's like how some people drop the slide on a pistol with the slide lock, while some rack and release the slide. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 22:43, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

Selection-wise there are a lot of odd guns in my opinion. There's no reason why the Middle Eastern Rebels couldn't have been using AKMs or AK-74s, and Big Mama's resistance members could also be using them as well. The HK21E has absolutely ZERO reason to be in the game (you could have just replaced the Rebel's HK21E with an M60E4 and everything would be hunky-dory rather than with the nonsensical dialogue the Rebel spouts about the HK21E being "the very latest model"). The XM8 should have been the full-length model to give better damage retention at range than the M4A1 (and should have been given a suppressor as well). And no revolvers, despite Ocelot being in the game? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:50, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

Despite how overrated and in many games now, the ACR should be in this game. Because this game takes place in the future, a LOT more new guns have been out since then. The standard XM8 is a carbine. The "full length model" as you call it is just the DMR variant. The XM8 was originally intended to be a replacement carbine for the M4. Technically those aren't "middle eastern rebels" but mercenaries hired, so their gun choices are whatever they want. I wish the SCAR-L was in the game alongside the SCAR-H and I wish they modeled different barrel length instead of just the CQC variant. It's kinda odd none of the more "professional" PMC soldiers had any optics on their guns and shooting their SCARs in full auto. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:59, 24 August 2012 (CDT)
:Those ''were'' Middle Eastern rebels, the only PMCs there were the advisers, the guys who didn't wear anything covering their faces. This is stated so during Codec conversations with Otacon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:47, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

The game is also missing out on using more widely know handguns like SIGs and Glocks. The Glock 18 is just something overused in the media, so it doesn't count. I kinda wish you can "equip" a gun in the game so that in cut scenes, Snake is holding the gun you were holding the moment before the cut scene was triggered or when you walk around, the handgun holster is not automatically the 1911. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:10, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

:I think the main problem I always had with this is there's so many guns you never have any good reason to actually use for anything. The P90 is just plain ''better'' than all the other subguns, most of the vanilla pistols are useless, and so on. It's like they just threw darts at an airsoft catalog, and it results in some pretty dull bosses since none of them are designed with any particular weapon in mind. Plus the mount system doesn't have enough options; it's no good having mount something / mount nothing attachment points, there should be several accessories per location. Even if it's slightly farfetched things like sensor mountings on the side rails, it's better than nothing. Too many weapons with no accessories, too; I'd rather have fewer guns and more stuff to do with them, maybe have a SUIT scope for the FAL and some bracket accessories for the AK like a Kobra sight and so on. Also Snake maintaining light discipline in fully lit rooms is ridiculous.

:In general the design doesn't really work; dividing a warzone into arbitrary rooms shouldn't be necessary, and since they use the same alert system as always you get the weird scene of soldiers being attacked by a BMP-3 going to alert because AN OLD MAN WITH A BAD BACK IS HIDING IN THAT ALLEY. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:31, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:I think the reason why 9mm semiautomatic pistols were not included lies in the damage variables used in the game's engine. If you ever played Metal Gear Online 2, you might have noticed that it took 8 auto-aimed hits from the GSR to down an enemy player at full health. Using auto-aim with a full-auto Glock 18 took around 20 bullets to down someone as well. Imagine taking a Beretta M9 into that mode and consistently finding yourself 5 bullets short if you tried to use your handgun and auto-aim a lot. And yes, the alert system is lifted straight from the earlier games, so the PMCs' highest threat priority is Old Snake at all times. More accessories for more of the ingame-weapons would have been nice, but what do you mean by "sensor mountings"? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:05, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

I kinda wish they brought back some weapons from the previous games like the FAMAS, or the PSG-1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:02, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

:An AKS-74U with Kobra RDS and PBS-1 suppressor options would have been nice, too. I also would have preferred the XM8 be the RIS-equipped Malaysian variant (if not replaced altogether by something more relevant and modern like the ACR), the AK-102 have its tri-rail handguard, optic choices (EOTech!!!!!) and mounts for more guns, an M203 for the M4 (the HK launcher just looked too damn bulky on it) and suppressor options for ''most'' conventional weapons. I was just using the Dragunov last night during Act 2 and wished to high heaven I'd had a suppressor for it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:07, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

I understand why the M203 was not in the game. If you think about it, it's a weapon that's getting old and this game takes place in the future. So a more future Grenade launcher would be better...that said, I wish the SCAR-H in the game was given a EGLM. Seriously, we needed more optics than the Aimpoint and ACOG. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:This game is chock full of vintage weapons, including the Makarov, 1911, Mosin-Nagant, G3, Dragunov, MAC-10, Type 17, FAL, and even a freaking muzzleloading matchlock rifle, all ''older'' than the M203. Same could be said in a round-about way about the Mark 14 (M14), M4 (M16 platform), AK-102 (just an updated AK), and the Remington 870. I don't see how giving the M4 a variation of an accessory it's ''famed'' for would be out of place. It all goes back to us wanting more variety in weapon mods. Besides, there's nothing functionally wrong with the M203 and all the ammo available for the XM320 and MGL were standard 40x46mm that would have worked fine in it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:39, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

When Snake held his M4 tilted, it doesn't make sense in the context of the scene, but if the game was made today, I'd bet you Kojima saw the future when we have recently added red dot attachments at a tilted angle for ARs. I wanted a regular M82A1, not the bullpup variant that no one ever sees anywhere. I really wished Merle didn't have double Desert Eagles. One as a sidearm, sure as a homage because it was her gun in MGS1 but 2? The G36 series of guns would have been nice. I wish the SCAR-Ls were in the hands of the mercs along side the SCAR-H because it's kinda weird that they ALL have SCAR-Hs but weirder is that none of them have optics or other attachments. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

:Out of all the Barrett rifles, the M82A2 actually makes the most sense for how it's used in-game, The M82A2 was designed to immensely increase the ease of use when standing or crouching compared to the conventionally lain-out M82A1, mainly for shooting at helicopters. Which works in the game since you mainly shoot the M82A2 standing or crouched against fast moving robots. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 21:57, 12 August 2016 (EDT)

== Name of the equipment that allows Old Snake to reload one-handed? ==

If you choose to make Old Snake commit a war crime by taking an NPC as a human shield while wielding a handgun, you'll notice that unlike the previous game, Old Snake will actually reload his handgun when you press the reload button, rather than just stand around like an idiot when his gun runs empty (as was the case in MGS3) while holding a human shield. Is there a name for the holster setup he uses ingame that lets him reload one-handed? Would it be possible to get something similar that would allow you to reload a handgun that doesn't use detachable box magazines, like the Thor .45-70 in this game or a revolver? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:19, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

: I don't think he has any special equipment to reload with a human shield. I think he just smacks the gun around on his leg to make it look like he is actually doing something, but his gun is just reloaded by the magic elves in shooters, that also pick up spent shell casings and discarded mags as well as re-plaster walls that were damaged by bullet holes. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:31, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

: Also, it's not a war crime; the fourth Geneva convention only says you can't take civilians or soldiers who are taking no active part in the conflict as hostages. I don't think it applies to threatening one soldier to make others back off. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:19, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

It would be cool to see them do some animation where we see Snake doing one handed reloads while holding a hostage. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:22, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

I would think that directly using one as a human shield would be frowned on by those at the Hague, however. But that's not the worst of it in this game. For one, you can make Old Snake execute soldiers you've made to surrender (i.e., you hold them up, then throw them to the ground and hold them up again to make them put their hands behind their heads). You can also commit sexual assault at gunpoint by holding up a FROG trooper and patting her down, along with the crotch-grab move. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:14, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

:You can think that if you want, but it doesn't make it so. Police pat female suspects down just like they do males. It's not sexual assault. You have a beef against Solid Snake or something? First you try to make him out as a war criminal, next a rapist. Are you going to imply he beats Sunny next? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 12:52, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Mazryonh, you're thinking with a civilian mindset. Depending on situation, military around the world do train their people how to effectively hold someone, either as a "hostage", to suppress nonlethal or to kill silently. It's part of military doctrine. The whole patting down is also part of procedure. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:24, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

:Oh well, police officers at least have a legal right to pat people down, and at a police station a female detainee can usually ask to be patted down by a female officer. I very much doubt that the crotch squeeze (which is intentional genital contact) counts as "standard procedure" either. It was a joke in MGS2 and MGS3; here it's something Old Snake (who to everyone but a few people in MGS' world is an "illegal combatant") intentionally does to incapacitate the enemy or "cop a feel" at gunpoint (the FROG troopers even sometimes quip that "You know what I like!" if you do it to them sometimes, shortly before they try to kick you down). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:29, 14 January 2013 (EST)

Personally I don't see the point of asking to be pat down by a female officer, you're going to be patted down the same way by either gender so it doesn't make much of a difference, if they think you're hiding something up "there" they're still going to pat down that area. And the reason for the crotch squeeze is to 1) Knock the male PMC's out and 2) Make the FROG soldiers kick Snake in the face. [[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 23:08, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

== Most Detailed Weapons in Gaming History? ==

Now I know MGS isn't perfect as far as weapons go (wonky weapon choice, needless cocking), but doesn't it have the most detailed models? I've personally never played a game where so many weapons were portrayed so realistically (visually at least). All guns cycle and eject spent casings. Bolts lock back when they're supposed to (M4 Custom, MK 17 bolt lock's back along with charging handle). And even when snake reloads early (he needlessly cocks the weapon) the weapon does eject the appropriate cartridge, which means they actually modeled a spent casing along with a cartridge. Maybe i'm the only one constantly in awe of this games weapons, but maybe not. Who else agrees. - cheech98

:The devs definitely went (almost) all out. But then again, that's what I'd expect from an MGS game. The only thing that kinda spoils it is the fact that fresh mags aren't modeled with any cartridges in them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:27, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

It's also the first game that I've ever seen where people use a large amount of trigger discipline, some games are starting to implement it but I have never seen it as much as in this [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 20:37, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:It's probably the first ''console'' game to model firearms with this level of detail. But ''PC'' games did this earlier. Just go look at the level of detail present in the PC versions of [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter]] and [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2|its sequel.]] Both of them have the +1 round in the chamber from a tactical reload, there are two reload animations for virtually every firearm, and weapons can be extensively customized (except for the lack of an underslung shotgun). About the only real complaints I have about the guns in those games are an unrealistic damage system and the fact that selector switches don't actually move when you change your firing mode. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:50, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

== Weapons in stock photos used in cutscenes ==
Mostly M16A2s, an M16A2 with an M203, and an M249E1 from the first Gulf War (from the looks of their 90s-vintage gear), and M4s and a not-clearly-shown M240 variant used by troops in Iraq. Should these be included? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:15, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:Yeah, stock footage is still in the game, after all. I'll have to get those when I get around to re-recording all this in HD. Kinda tricky because I'm going to need to make myself a plan of exactly what to do to get the same shots again in gameplay. Be interesting to see what the rumoured upcoming patch is going to do and if it changes anything (it's going to add trophy support, we know that part). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:48, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
::That patch is actually already out, released two or three days ago. Didn't change anything aside from adding trophy support, from what I can see (and I just finished a playthrough about half an hour to an hour ago). All of the above weapons appeared in you-know-who's monologue at the end of the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:50, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:::I assume they haven't put the MGO servers back up? They were turned off earlier this year IIRC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:43, 2 September 2012 (CDT)
::::No. The MGO option in MGS4's main menu has been replaced with an option to install all five acts of the game to the HDD at the same time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:28, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

== Hey... ==

If Johnny doesn't have nanomachines, wouldn't that mean he didn't have a system ID, meaning he'd have never been able to fire his issue weapon? Wouldn't someone have, you know, ''noticed'' that? For that matter, how come Snake thought threatening him with his issue weapon was a good idea when as far as he knew he'd never have been able to fire it without taking it to Drebin? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 00:06, 14 January 2013 (EST)

:I talked about this in an earlier revision of the XM8 section of this entry. But apparently I was wrong, and that was before I got the game for myself anyway. In any case, it's not too far of a stretch to posit that he's been paying Drebin some visits. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:22, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::Well yeah, but it's his issue weapon. Wouldn't the instructors have noticed he was the only one on the firing range physically incapable of firing his weapon at a target and, you know, done something about it? And you get in trouble if he has a non-ID weapon too since he should have used it at the end of Act 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:17, 14 January 2013 (EST)

:::He couldn't have used it if he wanted to in Act 3 cause he was puking his guts out on that boat. Of course now that you mention it, I do wonder how neither Merle or anyone on her team notices how they cannot link with Johnny at all [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 08:25, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::::Meryl oft mentions how johnny can be so out of synch with the rest of the team, most notably in the first few scenes where they are introduced IIRC. Also, from what I recall from the MGS database, all his gear is customized with tech from Japan to bypass the ID coding, minus the stuff from Drebin. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 15:06, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::::But there was no way Snake could have known Johnny's XM8 is potentially an Non ID gun because his lack of nanomachines, yet he disarmed him and was ready to use it despite being informed previous that all guns are ID locked and he can't possibly used them without Drebin unlocking them for him to use. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:42, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

This game, while moderately fun (MGS3 is easily 10X more fun than MGS4 is, but that's just my personal opinion), has so many glaring issues that I'm so tempted to say, "Just throw it into the big bag labeled 'Plot Holes' and move on." LOL. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:32, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

:MGS3 was a game based around its gimmicks in my experiences--the guards are much easier to fool than in MGS4 and you have Naked Snake's omnipresent hunger to deal with (but we should save this for the actual MGS3 page). Still, Kojima could have prevented this problem if Old Snake, after slamming Johnny with CQC, unloaded his weapon, pocketed the magazine, threw it away (since I doubt Old Snake knew how to field strip, Boss-style, an unfamiliar weapon like the XM8 on very short notice), then drew his own looted AK-102 (which you MUST take) to point at the Rat Patrol. As for Johnny's part, he could just have visited a gun launderer early on in his training (though it still doesn't take care of the question of why Old Snake commandeered his XM8 since for all Old Snake knew the ID lock would have rendered it nonfunctional).--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:49, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

:::The soldiers in MGS3 are easier to handle because they aren't interconnected to each other via SOP like the mercs in MGS4 are and, barring the Ocelot unit and other Spetsnaz, were likely far less extensively trained since the Soviet war machine of the time was based primarily on overwhelming an enemy with sheer numbers. Even then, Big Boss is (at least from my POV) shown to be the obviously better soldier when compared to Snake. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:53, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

::How could he visit a gun launderer before taking his issue weapon out on a firing range, though? They don't tend to let you take your rifle home and screw around with it in the military, last I checked. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:48, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

:Easy, he could have noticed that "Oh, crap, I'll be using an XM8 as part of the Rat Patrol and don't have any nanos; I need to get a counterfeit chip/firing mechanism blocker/whatever ASAP" and then visited a gun launderer to ask for that specific component ("Sure, you can have one for an XM8, so as long as you bring me the original by tomorrow" or the like). All Johnny has to do then is to substitute the counterfeit component (most plausibly something that locks the safety switch in its "on" position without the appropriate radio signal from a user's nanomachines, and has its own microchip component that can receive an overriding signal from the Patriots) for the original via field-stripping his weapon before his first firing trip range--they have field stripping practice sessions in the military, don't they?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 20:35, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

::If it were that easy, I doubt the Drebins would have made a business out of it. Every soldier in the field and mom & pop gun shop would be able to easily circumvent SOP, thereby making the whole thing--and the entire premise of the game--a proverbial fifth wheel. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:53, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

:No, according to Drebin 893's explanation at the end of the game, the gun launderers are '''(SPOILERS)''' Patriot-sponsored workarounds to the system, so it's most likely that only they can create chips (or whatever the component is actually called) that countermand/counterfeit the Patriot's System ID locks. Besides, the Rat Patrol's true purpose is in fact supporting Patriot operations, so I'm sure they would have given Johnny what he needed when he was assigned to the team, one way or another.'''(END SPOILERS)'''--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 00:53, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

::Yeah, but like I noted on the page, all of these weapons are designed to work without the System, so the worst you'd have to do is replace a component and maybe mill some metal out of the receiver so it fits. A lockout might work with something like the Javelin if the software is cloud-based and the missile programmed by the System since you'd have to write new software from scratch to use it, but a lockout on a gun is like a safe. It's there to stop you immediately accessing the contents, but if you can take it away and do whatever you like to it, it's not going to last for very long. So the Drebins would have been undercut by black-market gunsmiths who were just removing the ID locks or manufacturing weapons that never had them installed in the first place.

::That's not even getting into how daft it is having an army that requires the equivalent of an always-on internet connection to stop their soldiers turning into gibbering wrecks, their guns locking up and all their vehicles shutting down (helicopters doing so in mid-air, even). What do you do in an area with bad communications or jamming? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:45, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

:I was just arguing within the constraints of the story; if Kojima had thought things over he might have chosen other methods (such as surgical implants) to better control and monitor soldiers. And it doesn't have to be an "always-on connection"--perhaps the overriding orders only need to be issued once via a frequency no one else is allowed to transmit on.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 16:34, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

::Naw, it's very much implied that a local shutdown of the system immediately disables all devices linked to it, there isn't even a crash mode so that you can, say, land a helicopter. That really long description of the System that Drebin gives also shows it's an active monitoring system, hence it doing things like regulating emotions and linking squadmates together; it's all centralised with the Patriot AIs acting as the hub. SOP is the networked battlefield taken to a more or less impossible extreme. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:44, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

== Random question regarding the SCAR-H description ==
Why are the XM320 and Masterkey referred to as "NATO underbarrel accessory weapons"? Neither weapon adheres to any NATO standard AFAIK, but the wording makes it sound as if both are some kind of standardized weapon systems used by all member states when no such standardization has ever existed. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:26, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

:My take is that they were designed for use by NATO-standard nations, just like the GP-25 is a Warsaw pact underbarrel weapon.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:51, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

::Are there even any NATO standards for shotgun and low-velocity grenade munitions? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:55, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

:::Standard-measurement (2 3/4 in, 3 in, etc.) 12 Gauge shells for shotguns (I know, it seems obvious, but that's what it is) and 40x46mm for grenade launchers. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:06, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

:::What I mean is they go on NATO-ammunition-using weapons. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:39, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

:NATO most definitely doesn't use the VOG-25 caseless grenades fired by the GP series grenade launchers (and they were purposely designed to be non-interchangeable with NATO weaponry, like the 9x18mm Makarov round). 12-gauge shotgun rounds have been around for so long they're used on both sides of the old Cold War factions (look at the Saiga-12 and the Benelli M4, for instance). The Russians currently still haven't designed and deployed an underslung shotgun for their assault rifles, but that's clearly not due to technological constraints.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 16:38, 17 March 2013 (EDT)
::The question is why would you need an underslung shotgun for an assault rifle. Those things were never standard equipment for even the US army let alone any army. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:30, 12 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Yeah, but the point is they're the accessories that go on rifles that use NATO rounds, rather than on the Soviet rifles which get the GP25. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:11, 13 June 2013 (EDT)
::The [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System]] has had success in the field because:
:::'''1)''' It allows M4 Carbine users to have a door-breaching method without carrying a separate weapon (the MASS was designed to have its muzzle be at the same position as an M4 Carbine's when mounted to one--the MASS could conceivably be mounted on full-size M16s, but with the main weapon's barrel protruding past the MASS', it would be rather awkward to get the unmodified MASS' barrel into the right position for door breaching, and shorter-barrelled military AR-15 variants might not have the barrel length to safely mount the MASS).
:::'''2)''' It allows users another close-range weapon to use if they are attacked when they are out of ammo for the primary weapon, assuming the MASS isn't also empty.
:::'''3)''' Due to the various alternative 12-Gauge shotgun loads, it allows the user more versatility without carrying another separate weapon system (such as buckshot for room-clearing, flare/smoke rounds for signalling, beanbag/stinger round for less-lethal takedowns, etc.). As FRAG-12 shotgun rounds proliferate, I would imagine that the M26 MASS may replace underslung 40mm grenade launchers for short-range work, as having a 3-5 shot grenade launcher right on your weapon would be a positive asset so as long as you can handle the extra weight. Alternative 40mm rounds such as less-lethal or buckshot-carrying versions exist, but so far the vast majority of underslung grenade launchers remain single shot, unlike the MASS. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 23:33, 13 June 2013 (EDT)
:The only downside to the MASS is its bulky size, IMO. I'd personally pick a Masterkey over it in the same way I prefer the M203 for its compactness over the bulky M320. At any rate, though, I just think referring to the XM320 and Masterkey as "NATO underbarrel accessory weapons" implies the weapons themselves are standardized by NATO and used by the militaries of all the organization's member states when they aren't. Many armies use AG36-based grenade launchers, yes, but not all these launchers are the necessarily the XM320/M320 variant in particular, and I don't think the Masterkey was ever widely used by ''anyone'' other than Delta. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:22, 8 December 2014 (EST)

== Uzi ==

Sat around at the menu to watch Snake's antics from the different angle than in the ending, and then it ended up playing one of the commercials for the PMCs from the start that I never saw before. Apparently nobody else around here did, either, because it turns out there's a gun present in the commercial for Praying Mantis that isn't mentioned on our page for the game. Alas, I've currently got no way to get direct screencaps of the game - the best I can do is screenshots of a video of the game, so I wanted to point it out here before I did anything to the regular page.

[[Image:MGS4-Uzi1.jpg|400px|thumb|none|IMI Uzi in the Praying Mantis commercial.]]
[[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 02:04, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
:There's also the stock footage weapons--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 06:19, 4 July 2016 (EDT)

:Actually I think that's a [[Minebea M-9]] of some kind, you see later it has a foregrip.
:[[File:Minebea M-9 submachine gun (New).jpg|thumb|400px|none|Minebea M-9 (Current Model) - 9x19mm]]
:[[Image:MGS4-M9-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:46, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
::I'm not sure it's an M-9 there (the shape of the sight wings and the charging handle are pretty indicative of an Uzi), but it does do some shape-changing between shots. That one in particular, it seems to have grown a vertical foregrip, and had the Uzi's folding stock give way for one from a Mini-Uzi. The last shot it shows up in it's certainly a regular Uzi again, but it's still missing the stock for some reason. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 19:39, 4 July 2016 (EDT)

Consider is made in Japan,(very strick import/export guns) is certain a M-9.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 13:29, 23 January 2017 (EST)
:Maybe one modified to look like an original Uzi, then? Or maybe airsoft or other replica, because it most certainly doesn't ''look'' like an M-9, beyond apparently growing its forward grip in the second shot, for the reasons I mentioned already. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 19:55, 23 January 2017 (EST)
::Firstly, being made in Japan is pretty much irrelevent as it would be very unlikely that they would be able to get hold of a real M-9, they would just use an Airsoft gun. Secondly, this is actually on Youtube so you can get a proper look at the gun, and it is clearly an Uzi:[[File:Mantis PMC Uzi 1.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]][[File:Mantis PMC Uzi 2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]][[File:Mantis PMC Uzi 3.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]In the first screenshot it has the folding stock so it is a fullsize Uzi, but I think it is a Mini in the 2nd and 3rd shots. Not quite sure why it would change as it is clearly not actually firing (CG muzzle flash, bolt not moving), maybe they wanted it to be a Mini but for the first shot where he comes off of the bike it is a rubber stunt gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:31, 23 January 2017 (EST)
:::The gun in the second shot could be a Mini-Uzi; I can't say for sure from the angle, and there's not enough consistency between shots to go off of that, considering at the very least the regular Uzi stock morphs into a Mini-Uzi one between the first two. I'm more than fairly certain, however, that the gun in the third shot is not short enough to be a Mini-Uzi. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 02:54, 24 January 2017 (EST)

== Operator or TRP Operator? ==

Just looking at the image from the game, I notice the sights and the magwell, and looking at photos of the TRP Operator it has the same sights and magwell. Could it just be chalked up to modifications made before Snake got it, or is it actually the TRP Operator? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 23:49, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I checked and the in-game gun sure is very similar to the TRP. Only difference being the threaded barrel, different grips and the slide release.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 07:23, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::Since it bares more of a resemblance to the TRP Operator, I'll change it to such. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 21:25, 25 August 2016 (EDT)
:Honestly, considering the live drab slide and wood grips, I'd say it's more likely it's a regular Operator with target sights and a magwell, it's not like it's something that is that hard to customize. Also, I'm pretty surethe TRP Operator has a bull barrel, which the in-game weapon doest have. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 12:54, 22 January 2017 (EST)

== Just noted... ==

That Middle Eastern/African/South-Est Asia/South-American armies dont have 1 standart issue rifle/pistol/you-get-the-point, while got multiple instead. Curious of known on which countries this game is set I made some searches and discovered that. Why? Someone known? --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 13:27, 23 January 2017 (EST)
:Probably for simplicity's sake. It'd take less time to program soldiers on either side to have the weapons they use based on a predetermined "class" rather than making that sort of distinction and then setting up varied lists of equipment for them to possibly spawn with. You'll note that the equipment people on either side get still varies, but it's almost entirely based on the type of weapon - PMC riflemen get the SCAR-H, snipers get the Mk 14, shotgunners in that one section of Act 2 get the Masterkey, etc. I suppose it gives incentive to explore the maps and/or buy guns from Drebin, too. If the NPCs had access to everything, you could get it all for free by holing up near a spawn point for an hour and tranquilizing everybody that pops out. At the same time it'd make people who want to collect every gun hesitant to move forward, since they'd have no idea if there's maybe some ultra-rare gun that NPCs only spawn with one in a hundred times in a specific section of the game. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 19:52, 23 January 2017 (EST)
::Regarding the countries that were used as basis for level design, credits for the game actually give us some insight to that. The Middle Eastern section was based on Morocco, interestingly enough, South America was based on Peru, but since the game mentions Snake being deployed from Bogota it's perhaps safer to assume the level is meant to represent Colombia. Lastly the Eastern Europe is pretty much Prague, right down to the position and the name of the river that runs through it (Volta=Vltava).--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 04:11, 24 January 2017 (EST)

Talk:Battlefield 1

2016-09-30T21:27:32Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Beta Data Mine, Full Weapon List */

== This gonna be good... ==

Seriously. This is a good change for once, other than Battlefield mod and fictional "Iron Storm" (2002). This is a first World War 1 FPS comes from a major game publisher.[[User:Alex Vostox|Alex Vostox]] ([[User talk:Alex Vostox|talk]])
:Yeah, it's got some nice Steampunk elements (ala Dishonored) too, but tbh im more pumped about this than Infinite Warfare, even the CoD 4 remaster looked better imo.--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 13:00, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
::I was really hoping to see 1944 next, but I gotta say that this looks amazing. Perhaps the first after this is 1944. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 13:27, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
:::It looks alright, the graphics are damn good though, that's for sure.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 13:28, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
::::Let's hope they bring one of the MANLIEST element of the World War 1..The MUSTACHE! [[User:Alex Vostox|Alex Vostox]] ([[User talk:Alex Vostox|talk]])
:::::Every time you rank up your character's moustache gets slightly bigger? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:42, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
::::::Mustache AI--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:58, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
:::::::I'm going to be really disappointed if they don't have this in the game--[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] ([[User talk:John Ryder|talk]]) 03:34, 8 May 2016 (EDT)
::::::::You've reached Rank 100. You've unlocked... The Handlebar.--[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 01:50, 9 May 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::It's gonna be a good year for FPS games. I can't wait for this and Infinite Warfare (that must be illegal). As some of you guys mentioned, World War I games are rarely done and it's nice to see a triple A publisher try their hand at it. WWI is such a sorely underused setting, so much potential too. And I love space and science fiction, so Infinite Warfare has me covered there. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 02:24, 9 May 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::This game reminds me that i want to see a CoD of BF that takes place during the korean war.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 02:46, 9 May 2016 (EDT)

== Italian Rifle ==

It does look like it's designed after a Carcano 1891 Cavalry Carbine, but the rifle is way too long. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 23:09, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
:Maybe it's a inaccurately sized model? Judging from DICE's rendering accuracy (cough cough ARX 160), it could be the case.
::Is that cough getting in the way of you signing your posts, mysterious contributor?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:43, 8 May 2016 (EDT)
:::It isn't a Carcano, the stock is the wrong shape, there is no external magazine, no folding bayonet, and the end cap on the stock is wrong. C&Rsenal did a brakdown of the trailer and their oppinion on this rifle is that it is just a place holder and will eventually be a Carcano Cavalry Carbine, but it seems that currently the model is a modified Mauser 1898. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:34, 8 May 2016 (EDT)
::::Hrm, interesting. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 19:26, 9 May 2016 (EDT)
:::::And, though it's just me, the barrel on it seems extremely too long and thin. This leads me to believe it IS supposed to be the Carcano, but just absurdly disproportionate. [[User:Jaxxons11|Jaxxons11]] ([[User talk:Jaxxons11|talk]]) 19:38, 15 May 2016 (EDT)
::::::I agree, it looks like they have mistaken the length of the Carbine for the full length M91 --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 20:20, 15 May 2016 (EDT)

== MG 15? ==
So, there was a short teaser released few days ago, and it showed Bergmann MG 15nA light machine gun. I came here to add that to the images but it appears that someone inserted MG 15 instead of MG 15nA. I changed the name/image and added new screenshot, but if there is an image that contains MG 15 as well as MG 15nA, feel free to add that again. [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] ([[User talk:Zzang1847|talk]])

== What's this rifle ==

EA just had their E3 stream. It was really lame and not enough ME: Andromeda footage (i've been waiting 3 years for some gameplay, move yer butts!) There was a new trailer for BF1 though showing DICE's lack of taste in music. There's gonna be a livestream of bored looking people playing to soon.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:09, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
[[File:BF1 rifle.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Anyway, what's goin on here?!]]
:It's a [[Winchester Model 1907]]. And yeah, that music was shite.
:[[Image:Winchester Model 1907.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Winchester Model 1907 - .351 Winchester]] [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 17:46, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::I assume it was used during WW1?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:09, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::I don't if it was or was not. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 18:25, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::::I just hope that the Winchester 1895 shows up.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:40, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::It was used by France, and is limited by Russia and by the United Kingdom. Some French versions have been converted into a full-auto and are equipped with extended magazines. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 18:57, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::Here's the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pY3hlQEOc0 trailer]--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 19:04, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::What I really hope doesn't happen with this game is have tons of rare and little used semi auto rifles and SMGs inexplicably in the hands of common infantrymen, just so the game can still have the feel of Battlefield without modern automatic weapons. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 19:32, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXcD4ePJWEc 14 minutes of gameplay].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 19:49, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::I hope they keep it authentic with the Nagant jaming all the time.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 20:17, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::More gameplay [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AObo251De4k here].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 23:33, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::::About the only thing that makes me worried so far is the aircraft seem ludicrously tough, in these alpha games you have people slamming them headlong into the ground and flying them through buildings without destroying them. I guess that might be a balance thing because they're slower and so easier to hit from the ground, but still. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 12:07, 1 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::::I don't think the collision physics for airplanes has been finalized yet, but I do hope they stay more resilient when touching the ground than BF4's instantly-dead jets. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:04, 1 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Back in Battlefield 1942: Desert Combat the AC-130 was kind of infamous for having so much health it could actually fly straight through the chimneys on the El Alamein map and survive. It might be they just jacked up their health for the early builds because they wanted people who had no idea how to fly them to still have fun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 21:25, 1 July 2016 (EDT)

== An unknown shotgun ==
[[Image:Bf1-shotgun.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Unknown shotgun - needs an identification]]
So I added bunch of new weapons that came out from the second gameplay trailer, and I need some help identifying this shotgun. I know that there is a confirmation that Winchester M1897 "Trench Gun" is going to be in the game, but this gun is shown very briefly in first person view, and I am not sure whether it's M1897 or not. If this gun is from WW1 then Winchester Model 12 might be another possible candidate, but that I cannot guarantee. What do you guys think? [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] ([[User talk:Zzang1847|talk]])
:Those sights are throwing me off. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 22:34, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
::I could be wrong, but that could be either the Stevens Model 520 or the Remington Model 10. --[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 23:40, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:::I think you are right about Remington Model 10. If you look closely on the top of receiver, there is a bulged rail-looking part for mounting attachments(like the optic in the image) and I haven't seen that thing on M1897/M520. Now Winchester Model 12 also has that part on top of the receiver, but when I looked at the footage frame by frame, there were no shells ejecting on the right side, which fits the description of Model 10's bottom feed/ejecting mechanism. Unless I see any other suggestion of what that shotgun might be by tomorrow, I will update it to Remington Model 10. Thanks for the suggestion! [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] ([[User talk:Zzang1847|talk]])
::::A quick update to my previous comment. I just checked the new multiplayer gameplay footage from Jackfrags and kill-feed confirms that it is Remington Model 10(It says Model 10-A-HE, which I assume it is one of the pre-set customization options). I will update the main page right away! [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] ([[User talk:Zzang1847|talk]])
:::::Wow...so I actually knew something right about a gun being shown!--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 14:37, 13 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::About the names and presets, it seems every gun has a two-letter bit at the end of its name denoting the different presets, but I haven't figured out what they actually mean. About the sights, it seems the game as some sort of early dual-lens system where the front and rear sights are replaced with lenses that give the player what is effectively a 2x scope. Keep this in mind if you're trying to ID something and the sights are like this. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:25, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::On a sidenote, I think that the picture of the shotgunner getting hit with a shovel should be moved under the Model 10, as the model clearly lacks a hammer. Now, granted, the pump handle is shoved under the receiver, so you could argue that the same applies to the other moving parts, including the hammer, but I'm more inclined to believe that the victim of a shovel attack has (or rather, had) a Model 10. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 08:45, 2 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::How come they didn't include the extra round chambering on this shotgun in the closed alpha. Maybe they will fix it in the final release? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:28, 18 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::Probably trying to use WW1 era gun handling techniques. Notice how handguns are now held with one hand? I don't think chambering a shell, then loading the tube was a common military practice for shotguns back then. I could be wrong though.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 15:13, 18 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::::This is likely it. From my not-super-educated-on-the-era perspective, BF3/4's loading the chamber first, then the tube definitely feels more "modern" and "tactical", while loading the tube first and ending with a pump feels more "classic" and "old school". Also, another fun fact is that you can cancel/shorten reloads if you need to ready the gun quickly. Mag-fed guns can't do this of course, but anything that uses stripper clips and single-round loading can. If you hit the fire button while reloading, the round/clip currently being inserted will finish loading, then you'll rechamber the gun right after, so for rifles you'll close the bolt and shotguns you'll pump them, and I assume this will apply to revolvers in the full game as well. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:26, 18 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::::You should therefore also expect to see a lot of terrible trigger discipline since the military didn't teach it to soldiers back then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 00:10, 20 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Makes sense. Only time will tell if an extra round can at least be chambered by reloading the Model 10 a second time after an empty reload (like mag-fed weapons do). Btw Call of Duty 3 made two interesting things regarding this topic: an empty reload of the Winchester M1897 involved loading 5 shells, pumping and then automatically inserting an extra one, and while loading two stripper clips into the Lee-Enfield you could actually interrupt the process and fire the weapon after loading only one. It's extremely silly that such features weren't carried on in any of the 10 following games. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 19:49, 19 July 2016 (EDT)

==Weapon identifications by Forgotten Weapons==
Forgotten Weapon uploaded a few videos analyzing the different guns that appeared in the teaser trailer and the gameplay trailer. [[User:Inceptor57|Inceptor57]] ([[User talk:Inceptor57|talk]]) 22:41, 12 June 2016 (EDT) 
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDRRlVElEXI] - Teaser Trailer analysis 
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19hohCtdJ4Y] - Gameplay Trailer analysis

I also will run the assumption that no matter if it was introduced at the beginning or end of the war, we will be seeing any gun that existed during this time period regardless if it served in actual combat. Like I bet the BAR will be an awesome weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:29, 13 June 2016 (EDT)

I am fearing that the game designers will put sights that are the closest thing there will be to "optics" because gamers and kids these days just love their red dots and can't seem to want to play period pieces without their red dots. Greatest example is COD black ops where red dots galore before red dots were even thought possible for long guns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:25, 13 June 2016 (EDT)

:Holy damn, they added a Cei-Rigotti, I may have to buy this game. :P --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 19:32, 13 June 2016 (EDT)

::Well, you do have things that look pretty close to modern optics like [http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/17982/17332762_1.jpg?v=8D086BA4C1ABE20 this thing], which is a rare Zeiss-made 2.5x prismatic magnifier. Also reflex sights are [https://www.forgottenweapons.com/nydar-reflex-sight/ a bit older than you think], they just didn't really catch on at first. Even some WW1 fighter planes had red-dot reflector gunsights, in fact, though you'd never see them officially because they were top-secret: as late as WW2 the RAF was still messing around with photographs to replace reflector sights on Spitfires with old wire bullseye sights.

::Also, regarding the mystery scope on the Beretta M1918, I found [http://www.enfieldresource.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cropped-azzzzzz1.jpg this] image of a Lee-Enfield with what looks like some kind of magnifying rear sight, but I couldn't find any sites describing it or giving it a name. Anyone know? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 18:49, 28 June 2016 (EDT)
:::It looks like Parker-Hale aperture backsight, most likely [http://www.rifleman.org.uk/PH_Service_sights.htm Model 4] (though it was used with No.4 Mk I rifle). [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 06:46, 29 June 2016 (EDT)
https://imgur.com/gallery/QV6Fc
Speaking of ForgottenWeapons, apparently he took a trip to DICE's LA studio, and assisted them. Dunno how, but it gives me faith that the weapons will at least be modelled and animated as close to authentic as possible.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:42, 25 July 2016 (EDT)
::I can't be the only one who, if I was the one picking the teams for the livestream, would have invited him to play?--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 12:24, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

== Reloading rifles that require opening the action ==
Despite my initial concerns due to how terrible Youtube compression is, making it hard to see details, the round ejected when opening the action is actually accounted for. And by "accounted for", I mean your character covers the ejection port with their left hand as you open the bolt, putting the ejecting round back into the internal magazine. Thought you guys would find this interesting. Literally the ''only'' inaccuracy I'm finding with weapon reloading is the C96, but the alternative is not allowing reloads unless empty, so I can let that one slide. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:20, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
:Love it when animators put details like that into reload animations. That's why i like MoH: Warfighter, delicious animations.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:37, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
::But in the B1 has a realistic reloading (with half-empty magazine replaced by a full magazine no jerks once again charging handle); as well as the balance between the stripper clips and the individual rounds to rifles (insert a stripper clip when you can insert a five ammo to the rifle's magazine, and the pre-load with the individual cartridges) - something that is very rarely see in the video games, and already is an achievement in itself. As for the animations, I hope that they will correct their later, as now the game is only in alpha stage. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 18:57, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
:::Considering the attention to detail and the selection firearms, this is looking to be atleast interesting to play just to see all the guns.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 19:58, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
::::I wonder if they'll have the dafter stuff like the catapults and grenade-launching crossbows they developed before everyone came to their senses and started using rifle grenades? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 18:29, 28 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::Your post reminds me of that knife with a bipod from BF4, that was fun.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:52, 1 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::5 bucks says that they include the Blanch-Chevalier. For those that don't know, it was basically a Martini-Henry with the barrel replaced with a setup that allows for the use of proprietary muzzle-loading grenades and blank cartridges, fired from the shoulder just to make it more ridiculous. Only 1 exists, but given the Cei-Rigotti, it seems likely. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 21:55, 1 July 2016 (EDT)

== Unknown LMG ==
[[Image:Bf1 unk mg.jpg|600px|thumb|none|]]
He was seen in the pre-alpha. At first I thought it was the Colt Model 1895; but it seems to be something other. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 12:27, 28 June 2016 (EDT)
:Actually it's not a machine gun, it is an anti-tank weapon ''1.59-inch Breech-Loading Vickers Q.F. Gun, Mk II''. There are some BF1 videos where it is being used against, well, tanks. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 12:51, 28 June 2016 (EDT)
::As I understand, it will replace the rocket launchers from WWII shooters. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 11:59, 30 June 2016 (EDT)

== Alpha data mined ==

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1241794

A list of all the weapon names obtained from the Alpha files. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

:That's definitely a list of weapons from singleplayer, though that said the odds of SP-only guns should be pretty low. I'm excited for some of those pistols. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:42, 2 July 2016 (EDT)

::Heh, Mars pistol in there as the game's Desert Eagle. Wonder if it costs health to shoot it like the real one? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:59, 2 July 2016 (EDT)
:::This is clearly not a complete list. There are missing the many weapons, that are already in the game. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 15:06, 2 July 2016 (EDT)
::::Well, this is pulled out of the files (probably for SP) so it's entirely possible some of the MP weapons don't appear in SP. It's also entirely possible some of the weapons on that list will only ever be on that list.
::::I'm a little confused as to what use a 2.7mm smoothbore pistol with an almighty 3 foot-pounds of muzzle energy is going to be in-game, though. The Kolibri makes a .22LR look like a cannon. In fact given the Kolibri is [http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/kolibri_and_round_next_to_a_50_AE_bullet_for_comparison.jpg this big] (that's a .50 AE round beside it), it's going to be hard to even see it in your character's hand.
::::What I'm really hoping is somewhere in the DLC they do a Battle of Jutland map where every squad leader can spawn a Dreadnought or something. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 15:24, 2 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::Why am I getting the vibe with this is that they just watched any Forgotten Weapons video with a gun from before 1918 and just said, sure let's put that in. I mean the Kolibri's are rare, the Mars were effectively relics by WWI, Howdah's were hunting guns and their military uses were more in India and South Africa, Bulldog's were sort of petering out in popularity with civilians and next to none were in military hands. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 10:26, 4 July 2016 (EST)
::::::Well it's not like it's ever ''not'' been like that given Battlefield's tendency towards things like Pancor Jackhammers and MagPul PDRs and such. Even the first one had you fighting with the StG-44 before it had been invented and with the HMS ''Prince of Wales'' after she'd been sunk. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:44, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, the Battlefield series is known for taking artistic liberties in their games. Don't forget the Tiger I in Operation Battleaxe a year before they entered service. Then of course you have the Secret Weapons pack and all they added. DICE likes to use low production or even just prototypes for their games, and keeping them to the correct chronological point isn't their concern. [[User:Zombiedrd|Zombiedrd]] ([[User talk:Zombiedrd|talk]]) 14:47, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
I gotta say, I quite like that they put these rare or low production weapons in their games, makes the games more interesting and shows of weapons people might never heard of before. If i want historical accuracy, I'd play Red Orchestra or something.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:52, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
:I'll second this entirely. There are so many very cool and interesting guns (and vehicles and other tech) I'd never heard of before, I love it! And really, ''every'' Battlefield's weapon list is like this. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:10, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, it makes it more interesting then just having everyone run around with Nagants and Mausers and whatnot.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 21:02, 4 July 2016 (EDT)

==Neat Video==
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuCOj7ez3H8].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 01:06, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
: Something I see there besides the Auto-5 and MG15, I also see the Remington Model 8 as well. Currently an image of it is being used to showcase the Auto-5 which is incorrect as I do not believe the Auto-5 ever held 8 rounds. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 08:51, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::Well, the Model 8 could be running the 15-rounder, and just isn't fully loaded. Also, we saw the M1918 Mauser 13.2mm, and an icon of the Webley-Fosbery autorevolver (which, by the way, YES) for a split-second. Cheers, [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 18:52, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I am thoroughly surprised the Chauchat has yet to be revealed. Here's to hoping the French's 8x50mmR Lebel makes it into the game over the US's .30-06 version. [[User:Jaxxons11|Jaxxons11]] ([[User talk:Jaxxons11|talk]]) 21:12, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::::The Borchardt C-93, Steyer M1912, and Frommer Stop machine pistol are in some of the recent videos from Gamescon.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:23, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::::I'd bet the Chauchat will be in the France DLC. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:12, 16 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::Selbstlader M1916 in the hands of an desert infantryman? O_o. I understand everything, but in real life Mauser Selbstlader and the desert - the things, I think, very poorly compatible. Where it would be logical, if it would the pilot's choice of weapon. -[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 19:01, 21 August 2016 (EDT)

==Beta Data Mine, Full Weapon List==
Unlike the previous one, this looks to be a full, proper list of [https://www.reddit.com/r/Battlefield/comments/523ly0/bf1_full_weapon_list_including_gadgets_and/ all weapons], including their presets. As a Canadian, I will absolutely be rocking the Huot Automatic Rifle. Edit: I made an [https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_one/comments/523mef/full_weapon_list_including_gadgets_and_variants/d7hbq46 easier to read version]. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:02, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:>holy moley a Kolibri pistol
:Forgotten Weapons: The Game is really shaping up well.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 18:43, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::Replacing my previous text, as I've put together a [https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_one/comments/529uf8/full_weapon_list_cleaned_organized_and_new/ much more legible and complete list]. I'd be surprised if this isn't a complete list. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:32, 11 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Again, I'm surprised that the Chauchaut hasn't been confirmed yet. I mean, it was the first widely used, man portable, fully automatic rifle. [[User:Jaxxons11|Jaxxons11]] ([[User talk:Jaxxons11|talk]]) 16:27, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
::::Probably all the French weapons are supposed to be in the first DLC.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:34, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::I'd bet anything the France DLC will have the RSC 1917, Chauchat, Lebel (and an Assault gun), while the Russia DLC will have the Fedorov Avtomat and Mosin-Nagant (and Assault/Support guns). [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 00:30, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::French Assault class automatic will most likely be ''Ribeyrolles Mle. 1918'', calling it now! I really wonder what they could bring in the Russian DLC, maybe more Winchester self loading rifles?--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 09:09, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Figured you guys would want to see [https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_one/comments/559aey/ingame_images_of_the_2mm_kolibri_pistol/ this]. :3 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:31, 30 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Imagine it serves as a melee weapon that behaves akin to an extreme choking hazard.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:27, 30 September 2016 (EDT)

Talk:Battlefield 1

2016-09-15T13:09:45Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Beta Data Mine, Full Weapon List */

Talk:Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater

2016-04-30T09:51:28Z

BeloglaviSup: /* The Sorrow's holster */

== Radio Calls ==

Some of the radio calls in Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater describe the weapons that Snakes has access to throughout the game. However the amount of dialog is so great that it there is not enough room on the main page for it.

==FP-45 Liberator==

===The Boss===
The Boss: I see you're using the EZ Gun. The EZ Gun is a silenced tranquilizer gun for special-ops use developed for FOX by the CIA's technology division.

Naked Snake: A silenced tranquilizer gun? I don't see a suppressor on here...

The Boss: Apparently, the tranquilizer rounds themselves are designed to suppress the sound.

Naked Snake: Interesting. In other words, I won't have to worry about the suppressor wearing out on me, right?

The Boss: That's right. It's also equipped with a laser sight so that you can make accurate shots even at a distance. In addition, merely equipping the EZ GUN should have a positive effect on your Camo Index. I've even heard it helps you recover your stamina. Put it to good use.

==M1911A1==

===Sigint===

Sigint: So you've got an M1911A1, huh?

Snake: Yeah. EVA gave it to me. She said it used to belong to a Western officer.

Sigint: Looks like someone did a little work on it, too.

Snake: It's more than a little. First of all, the feeding ramp has been polished to a mirror sheen. It's not going to have any feeding problems. The slide's been replaced with a reinforced version. And it meshes perfectly with the frame. The frame itself has been iron-welded and scraped down multiple times for maximum precision. The front strap part of the frame has been checkered to make it dig into the hand. That prevents any slipping. The sight system's original, too. It's a 3-dot type. It's got an enlarged front sight, giving it superior target sighting capability. The regular hammer's been replaced with a ring hammer. That enhances the cocking speed and increases the hammer-down speed. They also reworked the grip safety to accommodate the ring hammer. Looks like they eliminated it altogether. This is a tool for pros. The thumbs safety and the slide stop are extended to allow for more precise handling. The base of the trigger guard is whittled down, so you can use a high grip. And the trigger itself is a long type for easy finger access. The trigger pull is about 3.5 pounds. That's about a pound and a half lighter than normal. The magazine well has been widened to make it easier to put in a new magazine. The magazine catch button has been cut down low to make it harder to hit by mistake. The mainspring housing has been changed to a flat type to increase grip. And it's even been fitted with stepping so that it doesn't slip from the recoil when firing. On top of that, they added cocking serrations to the front part of the slide. That lets you load and eject cartridges faster in an emergency. Whoever did this is a professional. No question - this thing could shoot a one-hole at 25 yards in a machine rest.

Sigint: Well, I'll be damned. That's some gun.

Snake: Yeah. I've never used a weapon this fine in my life.

==Mk22 Mod 0 "Hush Puppy" (Smith & Wesson 39)==

===The Boss===

The Boss: The gun you're using is a test model of a suppressor-equipped pistol currently in development by the Navy, that's been modified by the CIA into a tranquilizer gun. The suppressor-equipped pistol it's derived from is itself being developed for use by Special Forces based on the M39...

Naked Snake: The Mk22.

The Boss: That's what they're going to call it if they decide to adopt it for official use... It uses a slide-lock mechanism, that will keep the firing sound down to a minimum...

Naked Snake: But I'll have to reload it by hand every time I fire. Right?

The Boss: Right. You won't be able to fire multiple shots at once, so make every shot count. Aim for the enemy's vital spots. There's talk of designing the Mk22 to accommodate special subsonic rounds, but for this mission you'll be using specifically designed tranquilizer rounds. In a way, these tranquilizer rounds are like miniature syringes. When one of them strikes a target, the impact causes a needle contained within to shoot out. At the same time, chemicals inside the round are mixed to create a gas, which pushes the plunger and injects the tranquilizer into the target. You can knock out an enemy immediately by shooting them in the head. But if you shoot them in the arm or leg, the tranquilizing agent will take some time to set in. Aim carefully.

==Rocky Mountain Arms Patriot Pistol==

===Sigint===

Sigint: Using the Patriot, eh?

Snake: Yeah. It's the same one The Boss was using.

Sigint: Where'd you get it?

Snake: Hmm?

Sigint: I said, where'd you get it?

Snake: Sigint, don't get worked up over the details.

Sigint: ??? Whatever. Anyway, the Patriot is a one-of-a-kind sidearm made especially for The Boss. It's basically an XM16E1 with the barrel cut short and the stock taken off. The idea was to create a large pistol that combined the feel and quick handling of a handgun with the force of a rifle. But with a barrel that short, the recoil is unbelievable. It's tough to aim, but it more than makes up for it in firepower. From the looks of it, it's fitted with a 100-round drum magazine... And it never runs out of ammo?

Snake: Never.

Sigint: Why's that?

Snake: Because the internal feed mechanism is shaped like an infinity symbol.

Sigint: Ah, I get it. Yep, that'll give you unlimited ammo.

==AK-47==

===The Boss===

The Boss: You said the enemy is equipped with AK-47s, didn't you? The AK-47 is the official assault rifle of the Soviet army. It's employed not only by the Soviets, but throughout the Eastern bloc. It uses 7.62mm x 39 ammunitions, with a magazine capacity of 30 rounds. The AK is reliable, precise, powerful, and easy to handle - in short, one of the best assault rifles there is. Don't even think about getting into a one-man firefight against an enemy unit equipped with AKs. Avoid battle as much as possible. Are we clear?

I will be adding more and more as time goes on help will be appreciated as the MGS wiki is missing some calls in the game. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 14:10, 3 July 2012 (CDT)

==Discussion==
=== This Game is the best game. ===

Ok, it's not the best game but it's one of the best games of all time. It's basically an awesome Bond Movie. It has a awesome pre-title sequence (The Virtous Mission), a great title sequence with an awesome song (You know the one i'm talking about), a bond girl (EVA), fights with various henchmen (Cobras, Ocelot), Q (Sigint) and a incredibly ridiculous stereotypical evil enemy (Volgin and his cronies). It's the best game on the PS2. It also got great voice acting and extremely awesome and ridiculous stuff like when EVA dropsaults Ocelot with a '''motorcycle'''. Even though i got some complaints the game is still one of the best games of all time.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

:Sure is, I really like Ocelot in this game, he is so badass with his revolver tricks and that hand gesture he does all the time. I also like how the game has you use survival tactics too, such as finding food, and treating your injuries. It was this game got me into MGS.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:57, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::I also like how Ocelot kinda admires Snake. I also like how Ocelot is basically a Cowboy and how Snake says that the engraving on his SAA ins't useful tatical wise. I just love this game. I think I'm the only one that laughed in MGS2 when there was the easter egg where snake is caught having a....ugh...erm... a ''happy time'' in a locker. Or was it MGS1? Anyway, i have some complaints about the game though. Like how EVA is supposed to be chinese and she looks extremely american or all the anachroisms (I probably spelled that wrong) or how Snake spergs out about guns.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

:::If I remember correctly, and it's possible I may not because I haven't played MGS3 in a while, Eva was actually American but had been kidnapped by the Philosophers and sent to China, where she grew up in an orphanage-type place and was trained as a Chinese agent. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
::I don't know but she's either Chinese or an american that defected to the chinese or she could be what you just said, Spartan.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::She could be based on those Americans who was captured during the Korean war, in which they been indoctrinated about the Chinese Communism. When the war was over, they were released and starting to promote Communism in U.S. However Eva is not captured, so I guess she was either left behind by her American parents in China (could be Shanghai) when Mao Zedong won the Chinese Civil war and send to an orphanage or she was kidnapped by the Chinese Philosophers and train her into an agent. - Han

I remember this was the most played Metal Gear Solid game I've ever own. I would play it over and over more than my remake of MGS1 and MGS2. When MGS4 came out, I still had time to play the 3rd one again because of the story and gameplay. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I realize that this may be late, but I think that the theme tune 'Snake Eater' is one of the best in all of video game history. Alasdair.

=== Airsoft 1911 ===

[[Image:Snake_.45-2.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Snake's custom M1911: in reality, a custom airsoft gun made by Sheriff Co. of Japan.]]

I dont think thats the model they used in the game. First of all, it was a Government model, and on its slide it had 90 degree serrations like the GI M1911A1(Both on the front and on the back). The grip safety was a standard m1911a1 grip safety, but was edited in some regions. The trigger had 5 or 6 holes in it. It had a threaded black barrel, and the wooden grips were cut to accomodate a cqc knife. That 1911 may look similar to untrained eyes, but it's quite different from what Big Boss had in Op.Snake Eater.

:Actually, the custom M1911A1 Naked Snake uses has ''no grip safety whatsoever''. This is mentioned during radio conversations with Sigint. --Orca*

Could someone try to get a screencap of it from the menu rather than using the one from my site, and don't try to deny it, I edited it to remove the markings on the slide.
-Crimson.
This 1911 looks more like a colt XSE to me...-izak 99

this is the exact copy, more or less.. just an airsoft replica, copy paste the link*
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.y-cw.com/hal-12b.htm&ei=IIsUSsbuE9HVlQf4qrTFAw&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnm%2B7267719%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DADBS,ADBS:2006-45,ADBS:en

Moved this into discussion. As I also noted in the MGS4 discussion, the airsoft gun in the picture has little more than a slight superficial resemblance to the weapon in the game. The link above seems to be a more accurate replica of the pistol in the game.

=== Slide lock on the tranq pistols ===
Why is it Snake never simply ''disengages'' the slide lock on the tranq pistols in these games in order to enable them to cycle on their own? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:48, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Best guess is that the rounds don't have the power to fully cycle the slide on their own.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

its so that it is quieter apperently. if he fires without the slide lock it will become louder---[[Special:Contributions/92.12.88.35|92.12.88.35]] 15:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC) i think that is from the manual or something, cos i definatly is true
:Personally I'd rather have a slightly ''louder'' pistol that can cycle on its own rather than a slightly ''quieter'' one that's, in effect, a "bolt action" pistol. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes I wish the game let the player disengage the slide-lock on the tranq pistols when you're not using it with a suppressor. That would make it more useful in boss fights or other situations where you want to use non-lethal force but either don't have suppressors for the Hush Puppy or don't want to use one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:As I understand it, the S&W Model 39's used for ''Hush Pupppy's'' were irreversibly modified -- the slide-lock function could not be disengaged. A later version of the slide-lock pistol was the Beretta M9, and its modification, while also permanent, permitted the weapon to be disengaged from a manual reloading function into semiautomatic function. Snake, however, was NOT PERMITTED TO ENGAGE during the ''Virtuous Mission'', the operation in which he was issued the Mk.22. Hence, the added silence of a slide-lock pistol, the ammunition, etc., were not meant for direct combat -- they were meant for sneaking. The same thing goes for Solid Snake in MGS2 -- sneaking mission, stealth only, do not kill Marines. Than the Russians came... And Snake picked up a USP, first chance he got. ;) --Orca*

::I really don't think what Snake was or wasn't permitted to do is at all relevant. As with any black operation, there's always the possibility that you can be compromised and engaged yourself. When SEALs or some other SOF team goes on a recon mission where their ROE don't permit them to engage, the whole team doesn't take M4s modified to be hand-cycled only, do they? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Wouldn't know -- not a SEAL. But I imagine they have, in addition to their primaries, some sort of option for silent killing from a ranged distance -- the Mk.22 was developed to kill guard dogs; something that SF teams wouldn't be able to easily sneak up on and stab (or whatever). The Mk.22 represented in MGS3 uses that aspect, of 'the most silence possible from a distance', because solo ops were a FOX UNIT selling point to the CIA, who would organize them into an official unit if they succeeded in a completely undetectable rescue -- no deaths on either side, objective achieved, no traces to the US. Supposedly, even Snake's shell casings were unmarked, to say nothing of the tranquilizer load. Invisibility; on a physical and politcal scale, that was the mission as the story tells it, and so the Mk.22 was seen as the best choice to send Snake, already lightly loaded, in with. --Orca*

Where exactly are you getting that the Mk. 22 was developed specifically to "kill guard dogs"? Having an extra gun on you specifically to kill a few guard dogs that:
1. may or may not be there
2. are likely within full view of their handlers
seems incredibly superfluous when any silenced pistol would do the job equally well. Forgive me if I'm a tad bit skeptical of that claim. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 17:59, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

:Sorry for the late reply -- The Mk.22 was nicknamed ''Hush Puppy'' due to this reason. You raise an excellent point; if I had to guess, the pistol was more than likely used on the handler(s), or sentries, or anything else that needed to be killed without raising alarm, as well. But I've never read anything that denoted it for that purpose; I've only ever read of the Mk.22 being developed to silently kill dogs. In terms of other sileneced pistols is use by the US in 1960's, I couldn't suggest anything off the top of my head. MGS3 represented suppressors the for XM16E1 and the 1911A1 as very compact for the time, or as far as I know of, so I'm not certain why the Mk.22 would have been seen as necessary if there had been other alternatives that would do things just as easily. Perhaps it was due to the slide-lock? Maybe that made it quieter and more appealing to those who used it? -- Orca*

:According to a couple books I've read, the whole "killing guard dogs" bit was a ploy to get the pistol through bureaucratic red tape because certain powers-that-be thought that killing enemy combatants with a silenced weapon was "dishonorable" or something like that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:26, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

::Apparently the idea is locking the slide prevents gas release from the ejection port as the weapon cycles, minimises the sound of cycling by letting the user do it slowly, and also means the gun isn't throwing brass around you'd have to look for (ground sign, and all). Most of the really quiet covert weapons use manually operated actions (eg De Lisle, Welrod), so it's not like it's just this one. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:17, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

=== Reloading while carrying a knife ===

I understand the tactics behind holding a knife in your reaction hand while you grip the weapon, but in reloading, that's just one extra thing you have to worry about not dropping. How would you get a good grasp of the spare mag while holding onto a knife. Snake seems to have no problems but it just occurred to me that trying this in real life can be very dangerous. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:24, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:It's even worse in MGS4 where apparently no one has ever heard of bayonets and always has a knife in the off-hand. It's part of the bias towards the gun-and-knife tactics of CQC that the series gained since MGS3. One way I think the reload could work with the knife in your off hand is if you grip the knife with your ring and pinky finger while using your thumb, index, and middle fingers to grip the mag. The real answer, however, would require that you look closely at the reload animations in this game or MGS4 to find out how they do it. They're all motion-captured, so they all have to be something real human beings can do. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:49, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
::It's not that they've never heard of bayonets. It's that bayonets are a clumsy, antiquated last ditch weapon. They are good in practice for basically one thing, and that is to (hopefully) turn your assault rifle into something like a spear which you will somehow manage to stab your enemy with before he fills you full of messy holes. You fix bayonets when you are out of bullets, grenades, helmets to throw at the other guy, air support and better ideas. In the close-quarters combat techniques that MGS' CQC is based on, the actual purpose of a knife is not merely as a cutting and slashing weapon; the knife serves as a method of controlling an opponent using pain-compliance and leverage. Granted I never saw anyone carry their knife like that ''all the time'', but then if I've been within a hundred miles of some special forces unit, they never bothered to come over and ask if I'd build 'em a house or something. I've definitely never seen anyone just running around with their bayonet fixed though. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 00:53, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
:Thinking back on this I believe it would be more convenient, simply for the sake of gameplay, if Snake could fix his Stun Knife as a bayonet onto his various long guns, then it would be simpler to simply tap an NPC with his new bayonet to stun them into submission or kill them silently with a well-placed stab instead of having to equip the knife to do so, or to rely on CQC (which takes more time). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:54, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

Here's an experiment to try: Get a gun in one hand and a steak knife in the other. Hold the knife with the blade down just like Big Boss does. Now eject the magazine. Just let it drop, dont worry about it. Now pick it back up or find a new magazine. Do so by gripping the knife with your ring finger and pinky and clamping it against your palm. It keeps it in place and keeps it stable. Use your thumb, index finger, and middle finger to manipulate the magazine and rack the slide. Resume your grip and go about your day. It might sound complicated but even doing it four or fives times it starts to get easier. Big Boss holds his gun like this EVERY SINGLE TIME. So inconclusion it isnt that dangerous or awkward. go ahead and try it for yourself.

-Double Agent M

:I rather not recommend random people online to try a trick that an ingame "professional" can do. As I said, if you aren't careful, you could end up stabbing yourself in the gut. The point of reloading is to get a firm and complete grip on the spare mags and then get it out and into the gun as efficiently as possible. Not doing it super speed like some people would try, but even doing it slowly, you'd have to mentally check the knife with that blade sticking out. You'd need to train yourself constantly with a fake knife before using a live blade. Otherwise, the chances for an amateur to stab himself is very high. And I don't want anyone to point back on my article if I say "hey, try this at home and NOT end up stabbing yourself with a steak Knife". if you reload without a complete grip on the mag, you might drop it or the knife. Remember this is Big Boss! And Solid Snake can do it as well, though oddly enough he never did that in Metal Gear Solid, or MGS2. Solid Snake only started to do the knife and handgun combo after MGS3 when we've known about Big Boss's early years and also Solid Snake's Mk 23 was replaced with a 1911 to emulate Big Boss [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:47, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, I agree with Excalibur. That's not something the average person should try. But I should point out that Snake's knife is a lot smaller than a kitchen knife. I myself, while not technically a trained professional, ''do'' know my way around with a blade and did a little test run with one of my boot knives. Turns out, it actually ''isn't'' that awkward (though still quite dangerous). When I grab my mags, I contort my wrist to the right (thumb toward the body) and grab with my thumb, pointer, and index fingers. Holding the knife like Snake does, the blade faces ''away'' from me when I reach for a mag. So the moral here is (A) kids, ''do not'' try this at home and (B) it's actually not that hard to firmly hold both knife and magazine. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

But apparently in MGS4, Solid Snake does the knife combo with pretty much all of his guns if I am not mistaken. Imagine trying to grasp a rifle magazine while holding a knife [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Not that difficult, either. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I just think that holding a knife at the same time wouldbe just as extra thing to worry about and sure, a knife is good in CQB, but i doubt it will be useful having it out when you are in the open. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Not if your an expert at it. ;)

=== The Patriot ===

It actually resembles the Rocky Mountain Arms Patriot Pistol seen in movie "Congo" and "Soldier",but this one most probably tricked out from M16A1 upper receiver with it's buttstock removed combined with the Patiot's lower receiver,and were given the M231 PFW firing mode.

*I'll see if I can get a screencap; I think the old image that was here was a real-life mock-up ''made'' from an RMA Patriot to look like the MGS4 Patriot, but I seem to recall the 3 Patriot looked ''far'' closer to the M231. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

:It did. It even had the threaded handguard. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

But it can't be a M231 FPW, the game takes place in 1964 and the M231 FPW was not designed until 1979! It may look like the M231 FPW but it's probably just a custom XM16E1. As far as the full-auto only goes, maybe the developers thought it did not need single-fire because it's unlimited. On a side note, Konami must of took the term "tumble rounds" wrong. The first time you see the Boss fire the Patriot, you see the 5.56 bullets fly in slow-mo and they actually tumble end over end in the air! O_o

Listen, Konami doesn't know much about guns (Including the bullets as well), so it is most likely the wet-dream of they think a "special" M-16 carbine would look like. They don't know a lot about history either, dispite the game takes place in the 1960's. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 22:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

*The Lockheed M-21 wouldn't fly until December of 1964 or launch a drone until 1966. The Mi-24 first flew in 1969. The Bartini Beriev VVA-14 WiG is from the early 70s. I don't think being an anachronism stops it being an M231.
:Yeah I agree, but I kinda doubt Konami meant it to be a M231. I still think it's meant to be a custom M16 not a M231. Maybe it would help if you guys could get a good pic of a M231 and a good, clear close-up of the Patriot. (I could be wrong and if it is just like the M231, I think it should still be called a custom M16 on the page though.) Also, when were Beta-C magazines made.

=== What ammunition does Colonel Volgin use? ===

Colonel Volgin is often seen with belts of ammunition on his person, and also often seen electrically firing long cartridges of unknown type in his fists, using the electricity in his suit to trigger them. Can anyone identify the kind of bullet he's using?

In any case, such a thing would not work in real life. The chamber and barrel of a gun aren't just for show, and if you try to fire a cartridge without them there will be consequences. Even if you could electrically trigger the primer of a cartridge in your hand, the fact that your fingers are no substitute for an actual gun chamber means that the casing will try to expand uniformly, which means instead of propelling the bullet forward the casing in the powder will just explode in all directions and likely amputate your fingers. Furthermore, without a rifled barrel to spin-stabilize the bullet or to provide a single channel to focus the expanding gas formed by the ignited powder, a bullet fired from a "naked" cartridge will be flying neither straight nor far. Oh well, the "rule of cool" overrides other petty concerns like "plausibility" or "adherence to physical laws" in the MGS universe.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:20, 5 August 2011 (CDT)

:I'll have to check when I'm getting the screencaps, but I'd imagine they're probably DshK rounds, since you don't see any other weapons around Grozny Grad that use belted ammo. Also, come on, this is a man who can also punch a hole in a concrete wall and has electrical powers for absolutely no reason. He probably has magic invisible electro-barrels which he created through the sheer power of his bastardry. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:32, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

::lol, that's what I was thinking when I play through the game. :D If I remember right they might have been belts of 7.62x54mmR or 7.62x39mm rounds, the bullets looked too small to be .50 cals but that's just what I remember. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:52, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

Yep, the only way it could ever work is if he carried small gun barrels between his fingers and inserted the rounds manually into those barrels before electrically triggering them. Even with that, he'd only get three shots per hand at most (not the long bursts he fires in his boss fight), he'd have to take a long time manually reinserting those rounds into those short barrels (unless it was something like a volley gun configuration arranged in a straight "W" pattern and he used something like straight moon clips to hold the rounds together during insertion), and he'd have to deal with the issues of incredible muzzle blast and flash, along with the drawbacks of very short rifling. Still, I hope you'll include shots of Volgin firing those rounds from his hands, as well as the scene when Volgin meets his end when all the ammunition in his belts cooks off.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:31, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I'll probably just put it down as "Volgin's hands" as a trivia note, a bit like the guy's hand in Shoot 'Em Up. And the rounds cooking off is the one time it's right, because even if it wouldn't fire the bullets, I can't see that not killing him. Of course, I can't see being struck by lightning not killing him either, but then we're talking about Volgin here. He's a large part of the reason this is my favourite game in the series, he's just so ''happy'' being evil and ridiculous. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:49, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

::Love this game too mate. Frankly, I love all four of the ''Solid'' games. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]

=== Ocelot's 9x18 Makarov Cartridge ===

Now, he carries the round that caused a stovepipe on him in the first encounter with Snake all the way through the game up until the final showdown: my question is, what is that thing around the cartridge? He's able to make a 9x18 Makarov fire using a Colt Single Action Army in the final showdown. What are the *realistic* consequences of trying to fire a 9x18 Mak in a .45 Long Colt chambered firearm? -- Long Fallen 23:57, 12 January 2012 (CST)
:Since the rim of a 9x18mm Makarov is narrower than the neck of a .45 Long Colt, the consequence would be it would be kinda rattling around inside the cylinder and that it wouldn't be held in place for the hammer to strike the primer. Also spinning the cylinder would provide a fair chance of the nose of the Makarov round sliding foward and making it stick. Unless the "thing" is him having re-seated the bullet (or the entire round) inside a .45 LC case (in which case accuracy and muzzle velocity would both stink since the bullet wouldn't be as wide as the barrel, to the point you might not even kill someone at point-blank range) there's no way it would work at all. I think you're just not supposed to think about that bit too hard / at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:06, 13 January 2012 (CST)
::Ah, so it's just Kojima brand logic then, common sense alone pretty much hinted at what you explained. I just had to ask, since it's easily noticeable in the HD remake, and that the stovepiped cartridge had this whole big deal behind it. Also, no one seems to have pointed it out. Thanks :) -- Long Fallen 19:05, 13 January 2012 (CST)
:::The other big thing about it is that it visibly has a bullet in it even though it turns out, IIRC, to be a blank. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:19, 16 January 2012 (CST)
:The thing around the Makarov round is called a sabot, which is made to let certain firearms fire subcaliber ammunition (which means rounds that are narrower than the barrel's diameter). If it was the proper size, then it would at least let the Makarov round sit properly inside the SAA cylinder. However, because an SAA was clearly not designed for firing in that manner (and because the sabot around Ocelot's necklace round doesn't encompass the actual bullet), it wouldn't work. Not that it matters anyway--if you play to the end of the game and pick the right gun just before the end you'll understand why. Tank guns using APFSDS rounds use sabots as well, but in this case the barrel is smoothbore and the sabot encases the tungsten/depleted uranium dart which has fins and stabilizes itself without rifling. Shotgun sabot slugs fired from rifled shotgun barrels, however, have the plastic sabot in place to protect the barrel from damage (since those slugs are often made of steel), and the sabot engages the rifling to spin-stabilize the slugs instead. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:46, 14 January 2012 (CST)
::No, a sabot would go around the bullet, not around the case. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:40, 14 January 2012 (CST)

Even though I'm normally a stickler for detail, am I the only one who thinks this is a rather small complaint to make of a series with bipedal nuclear death tanks and portable cloaking devices? It's a shame this entry pre-dates the development of Nanomachines in story, otherwise we could just blame them, since they seem to be behind everything else.

I also need to work on my sarcasm, because that was too blunt. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:53, 16 January 2012 (CST)

:Being able to build a walking tank doesn't mean a 9mm bullet will sit well in a 12mm hole. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:23, 16 January 2012 (CST)

It's not the only problem; given what happens later with that bullet, I'm surprised it looks so . . . conventional? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 08:39, 16 January 2012 (CST)

Unless he started carrying a .45LC bullet and hoped everyone would just assume it was the 9x18mm one? That and the devs just got lazy. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:09, 16 January 2012 (CST)

:Still not a patch on how confusing and strange Snake and Sokolov's "Shagohod" conversation is if you remember they're both speaking in Russian the whole time:
*Sokolov praises Snake's Russian.
*Sokolov, speaking in English, representing Russian, then says "Shagohod" in Russian. Snake doesn't know it's a proper noun, yet hears it like it's a name.
*Snake also doesn't know what it means.
*Without changing languages, Sokolov explains it means "The Treading Behemoth." (a) No it doesn't and (b) if it did, since he's still speaking in Russian, he just told Snake "Shagohod means Shagohod."
:The translation is very silly about this, like Granin being the only Russian with a Russian accent. So, um, does that mean he's actually speaking Russian with a broad Texan accent or something? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:45, 22 January 2012 (CST)

=== No M14 ===
Since IMFDb has quite a few M14 fans (myself included, of course), I was wondering if anyone else was disappointed by the lack of an M14? I think a heavy-caliber full-auto rifle would have been a good addition to the arsenal, especially if it had been fitted with a suppressor and early starlight or thermal scope. Although not documented AFAIK, it's not inconceivable for any captured M14s to have found their way into the Soviet Union in the early 60s. It ''was'' a relatively new rifle at the time and with the Cold War going on, I see no reason for the Ruskies to not have wanted to examine it to see if any of its design features could have aided in further developing the AKM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:10, 28 August 2012 (CDT)
:Would probably have ended up either ridiculously overpowered in fullauto if controllable, utterly useless in fullauto if not, or too similar to the SVD if semi only. More to the point, though, the joke in the game is that it's a collection of hardware as weird for the setting as the original's FAMAS and PSG-1 were, so having a weapon that actually made sense in the setting would actually have been bad. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:10, 28 August 2012 (CDT)
::Well, the EBR in MGS4 is useless in full-auto in every situation except point blank, yet it had the option. A way of balancing it (not that "balance" in the way you're meaning really matters to be) could have been to give it a starlight or thermal scope with less visible range and a larger mag, while the Dragunov has a longer visible range and less ammo, while being less useful in darkness or fog. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:10, 28 August 2012 (CDT)

Would'v made more sense to see some SKSs around [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:14, 28 August 2012 (CDT)
:Sure, then we might see some bayonet action (the guards posted in the jungle expected to come up against animal problems, right?). More Vietnam-War-era weaponry might have been nice to see.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:49, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

=== SAA ===

Ocelot's SAA's are all "Artillery" models, so why was the pic of the SAA replaced by a "Calvary" model pic just because it has wood grips? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 16:29, 9 September 2012 (EDT)

And on the topic of Ocelot's SSAs, do we really need 13 screencaps of them? I thought the limit was 10. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 02:14, 21 September 2012 (EDT)

== Gonna HD some stuff ==
Got a capture card, gonna HD screencap some stuff.
-protoAuthor 21:48, 27 June 2014 (EDT)

:Pardon me, did you get the HD version of MGS3 as well? That would help with the higher render/texture resolution, right? In any case, I hope you get to fully flesh out the article's set of screenshots. It'd be pretty nice if you could get screenshots of things like Naked Snake's really small backpack, or (literally and nearly) Naked Snake with the Stoner 63 just after he's tortured (referencing [[Rambo]]) and escaping Groznyj Grad, or even Colonel Volgin with his ammunition belts and his "hand-guns." Some technically-inclined fans have even managed to recently resurrect the game's online modes too.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 10:48, 28 June 2014 (EDT)

== The Sorrow's holster ==

Anyone know where one could get one of those holsters?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:53, 18 December 2015 (EST)

[[File:MGS3 The Sorrow.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

::Looks like the most probable candidate is the ubiquitous 1911! --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 05:51, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

== XM16E1 ==

I was thinking the XM16A1 was actually an M16A1. If you look at the screenshot you can see the in-game model has a full fence and an A1 flash hider instead of a partial fence and a 3 prong flash hider.
[[File:MGS3XM16E1.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Notice the full fence and flash hider]]

Talk:RPD

2016-03-12T09:19:19Z

BeloglaviSup: /* RP-44/RPD-44 */

== RP-44/RPD-44 ==
Here's a fun bit of information. RPD was originally produced in the later stages of the Second World War, and became the staple light machine gun of the Combloc through the 50s, but it did actually see [http://arsenal-info.ru/b/book/3005399322/ use as early] as 1944-'45. Later stages of field testing with the 1000 unit strong conformance batch was handed to the troops, including the field army. However, it's very unlikely the weapon was used on the edge of the front or against the opposing forces. The machine gun would almost wait a decade before being widely fielded within the Soviet military, in 1953, phasing out the previous [[Degtyaryov_DP_Series_Machine_Gun|DP series machine guns]] as the mainstay infantry light machine gun.

[http://arsenal-info.ru/img/2240698102/pic_22.jpg Picture] of the 1944 conformance model. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 04:09, 12 March 2016 (EST)

Talk:RPD

2016-03-12T09:17:55Z

BeloglaviSup: /* RP-44/RPD-44 */

== RP-44/RPD-44 ==
Here's a fun bit of information. RPD was originally produced in the later stages of the Second World War, and became the staple light machine gun of the Combloc through the 50s, but it did actually see [http://arsenal-info.ru/b/book/3005399322/ use as early] as 1944-'45. Later stages of field testing with the 1000 unit strong conformance batch was handed to the troops, including the field army. However, it's very unlikely the weapon was used on the edge of the front or against the opposing forces. The machine gun would almost wait a decade before being widely fielded within the Soviet military, in 1953, phasing out the previous DP series machine guns as the mainstay infantry light machine gun.

[http://arsenal-info.ru/img/2240698102/pic_22.jpg Picture] of the 1944 conformance model. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 04:09, 12 March 2016 (EST)

Talk:RPD

2016-03-12T09:09:17Z

BeloglaviSup: /* RP-44/RPD-44 */

Talk:RPD

2016-03-12T09:09:10Z

BeloglaviSup: Created page with "== RP-44/RPD-44 == Here's a fun bit of information. RPD was originally produced in the later stages of the Second World War, and became the staple light machine gun of the Com..."

Mercenary for Justice

2016-03-12T08:55:39Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Unidentified machine gun */

{{unidentified}}

{{Infobox Movie
|name = Mercenary for Justice
|picture = Mercenary for Justice Poster.jpg
|caption = ''Cinema Poster''
|country = [[Image:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|director = [[Don E. FauntLeRoy]]
|date= 2006
|language =
|studio=20th Century Fox
|distributor=Millennium Films
|character1=John Seeger
|actor1=[[Steven Seagal]]
|character2=Maxine Barnol
|actor2=[[Jacqueline Lord]]
|character3=Chapel
|actor3=[[Roger Guenveur Smith]]
|character4=Dresham
|actor4=[[Luke Goss]]
|character5=Samuel Kay
|actor5=[[Michael Kenneth Williams]]
|character6=Kruger
|actor6=[[Langley Kirkwood]]
|character7=Dekerk
|actor7=[[Vivian Bieldt]]
|character8=Bulldog
|actor8=[[Adrian Galley]]
|character9=
|actor9=
|character10=
|actor10=
}}

'''''Mercenary for Justice''''' is a 2006 direct-to-DVD action film directed by [[Don E. FauntLeRoy]] and starring [[Steven Seagal]] as John Seeger, who commands a squad of mercenaries hired by the CIA to carry out a ''coup d'état'' on a fictional island in Southern Africa. After his mercenaries are defeated due to the appearance of French regular troops, Seeger finds that his CIA employers are dissatisfied and now have a nearly suicidal mission for him and his men. Some of the battle scenes were filmed partially in Bulgaria (all scenes with T-72 tanks and other armored vehicles) while others were filmed in South Africa, resulting in numerous continuity errors.

'''The following weapons are seen in the movie ''Mercenary for Justice:'''''

{{spoiler}}

__TOC__ 

= Handguns =
== Custom M1911A1 ==
As in many other movies, [[Steven Seagal]]'s character John Seeger carries a custom [[M1911A1]]. In the final scene this pistol is used with a sound suppressor. Seagal himself is a great fan of 1911s and has a collection of customized versions of this gun. One of Chapel's henchmen is also armed with an M1911A1.
[[Image:Colt1911A1PreWar.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Pre-War Colt M1911A1 Pistol Commercial - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MfJ-M1911-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Seeger cocks his pistol.]]
[[Image:MfJ-M1911-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Seeger hands his pistol to Bulldog ([[Adrian Galley]]).]]
[[Image:MfJ-M1911-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A nickel plated M1911A1 is seen in hands of a henchman.]]
[[Image:MfJ-M1911-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A henchman fires his nickel plated pistol.]]
[[Image:MfJ-M1911-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Seeger holds a suppressed pistol.]]
[[Image:MfJ-M1911-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A better view at Seeger's suppressed pistol.]]
[[Image:MfJ-M1911-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Anthony Chapel ([[Roger Guenveur Smith]]) carries a nickel plated M1911A1 in the final scene.]]
[[Image:MfJ-M1911-9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chapel aims his pistol at Seeger.]]

== Vektor Z88 ==
Several characters are armed with [[Vektor Z88]] pistols, South African copies of [[Beretta 92FS]].
[[Image:Vektor-Z-88.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Vektor Z88 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A hitman ([[Garth Collins]]) aims his pistol at John Seeger.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Beretta-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close view at the pistol.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Beretta-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bulldog ([[Adrian Galley]]), dressed as police officer, fires his Z88 during the shootout in the lighthouse.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Beretta-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of Chapel's henchmen holds a two-tone Z88 in the same scene.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Beretta-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close view on the henchman's pistol.]]

== Vektor SP1 ? ==
Dekerk ([[Vivian Bieldt]]) carries a pistol that look mostly like [[Vektor SP1]] but differs in some details including the shape of cocking serrations.
[[Image:Vektor_SP.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Vektor SP1 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-Pistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dekerk fires his pistol (very near to Kruger's head!).]]
[[Image:MfJ-Pistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another view at Dekerk's pistol. A [[Vektor SS-77]] machine gun is seen behind him.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Pistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dekerk's pistol is seen from the muzzle.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Pistol-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another Vektor SP1 is seen in hand of a killed Cape Town bank security.]]

== Glock 19 ==
[[Glock pistol series|Glock]] pistols (supposedly 2nd Generation [[Glock 19]]) are used by several characters including Kruger ([[Langley Kirkwood]]), John Dresham ([[Luke Goss]]) and Maxine Barnol ([[Jacqueline Lord]]).
[[Image:Glock19_2ndGen.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Glock 19 (2nd Generation) - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-Glock-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kruger holds his Glock. At the background Dekerk aims his pistol (supposedly [[Vektor SP1]]).]]
[[Image:MfJ-Glock-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John Dresham holds his Glock.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Glock-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Maxine Barnol holds her Glock.]]

== Glock 17 ==
A [[Glock pistol series|Glock]] pistol (due to the barrel lenght it is 2nd Generation [[Glock 17]]) is used by the unnamed female mercenary ([[Verity Price]]).
[[Image:Glock17EarlyModel.jpg|thumb|350px|none|2nd Generation Glock 17 - 9x19mm. This model added finger stepping and cuts to the backstrap of the frame to make it easier to hold than the Generation 1 model.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Glock-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The female mercenary climbes the wall holding her pistol.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The female mercenary holds her pistol at the background.]]
[[Image:MfJ-CR21-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The female mercenary holds her pistol. Next to her is Dekerk ([[Vivian Bieldt]]) with a [[Vektor CR-21]].]]

== Smith & Wesson Model 65 ==
What appears to be a [[Smith & Wesson Model 65]] revolver is very briefly seen in hands of one of Chapel's henchmen.
[[Image:Smith653.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith and Wesson Model 65, .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:MfJ-Revolver-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A henchman holds his revolver.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Revolver-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A henchman aims his revolver at John Seeger.]]

= Submachine Guns =
== Armscor BXP ==
Kruger ([[Langley Kirkwood]]) carries a suppressed [[Armscor BXP]] submachine gun during the attack on the villa of the French ambassador in the opening scene. One of Chapel's henchmen is armed with a BPX during the shootout in the lighthouse.
[[Image:Bxp.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Armscor BXP with suppressor and laser aiming module attached; spare magazine, grenade spigot and muzzle brakes - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-BPX-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kruger aims his suppressed BPX at the French ambassador.]]
[[Image:MfJ-BPX-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kruger holds his suppressed BPX.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Pistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kruger fires his BPX while Dekerk fires his pistol (very near to Kruger's head!).]]
[[Image:MfJ-BPX-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another view at Kruger's BPX.]]
[[Image:MfJ-BPX-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A BPX is seen at the left side during the shootout in the lighthouse.]]
[[Image:MfJ-BPX-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A henchman fires his BPX.]]

== PPSh-41 ==
[[PPSh-41]] submachine gun with a 71 round drum magazine is seen in hands of a mercenary in the opening scene. Many PPSh-41 were captured by South African army during the border conflicts with Angola and Mozambique, so it's not surprising to see PPSh in South African filmed movie.
[[Image:PPSH-01-SMG.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Soviet PPSh-41 Submachine Gun - 7.62x25mm Tokarev]]
[[Image:MfJ-PPSh-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A barrel and drum magazine of the PPSh are seen at the left. The mercenary at the right is armed with a [[Vektor R5]] visually modified to resemble [[AK-47]].]]
[[Image:MfJ-PPSh-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close view at the PPSh-41. Also note two [[Mk 2 hand grenade]]s.]]

== PPS-43 (visually modified to resemble MP5) ==
During the mission in Cape Town Kruger ([[Langley Kirkwood]]), Dekerk ([[Vivian Bieldt]]) and other mercenaries are armed with submachine guns that look like [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]] but really are visually modified [[PPS-43]]s. The same weapons can be seen in ''[[Behind Enemy Lines II: Axis of Evil]]'' that was also filmed in Bulgaria.
[[Image:PPSh-43-Submachine-Gun.jpg‎|thumb|400px|none|Soviet PPS-43 Submachine Gun - 7.62x25mm Tokarev]]
[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:MfJ-MP5-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kruger holds his fake MP5A3. Note a longer barrel.]]
[[Image:MfJ-MP5-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mercenaries fire at prison guards.]]
[[Image:MfJ-MP5-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mercenaries fire their SMGs.]]
[[Image:MfJ-MP5-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kruger reaches into the armored car.]]
[[Image:MfJ-MP5-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dekerk fires two SMGs akimbo.]]

= Shotguns =
== Mossberg 500 ==
One of the mercenaries carries a [[Mossberg 500]] shotgun during the attack on the villa of the French ambassador in the opening scene. Mossberg 500s are also seen in hands of Cape Town police.
[[Image:Mossberg500.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Mossberg 500 "Persuader" with standard five-shot magazine tube - 12 gauge. This is the most commonly produced version of the 500 series today.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Shotgun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary aims his shotgun.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Shotgun-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary holds his shotgun in the same scene.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Shotgun-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Cape Town police officer with a shotgun.]]
[[Image:50577.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Mossberg 500 with high-capacity magazine tube - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:MfJ-Shotgun-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Cape Town police officer holds a shotgun with high-capacity magazine tube.]]

== Winchester Model 1300 ==
During the shootout in the lighthouse Samuel Kay ([[Michael Kenneth Williams]]) is armed with a [[Winchester Model 1300]] with with extended tube and pistol grip. Cape Town police officers can be seen carrying Winchester Model 1300s with standard wood furniture.
[[Image:WinchesterModel1300Def.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Winchester Model 1300 with extended tube and pistol grip - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:MfJ-Shotgun-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kay holds his shotgun. Next to him Maxine Barnol ([[Jacqueline Lord]]) holds a [[Vektor R5]].]]
[[Image:MfJ-Shotgun-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kay fires his shotgun.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Shotgun-9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pump and tube of Kay's shotgun are seen.]]
[[Image:WinchesterModel1300Defender.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Winchester Model 1300 with extended tube - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:MfJ-Shotgun-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Cape Town police officer runs with a shotgun.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Shotgun-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Cape Town SWAT officer aims his shotgun during the scene in the bank.]]

= Assault Rifles =
== Vektor R5 ==
[[Vektor R5]] assault rifles are the most widely used guns in this movie. They are seen in hands of mercenaries, French commandos, Cape Town police officers, and Chapel's henchmen. Some of these R5 can be LM5, semi-automatic civilian version of this assault rifle.
[[Image:VektorR5.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Vektor R5 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John Seeger ([[Steven Seagal]]) fires R5 assault rifle in the opening scene.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|French commandos attack with R5 assault rifles. Note that at least one of those guns lacks the magazine.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|French commandos fire their R5 assault rifles.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Radio" Jones ([[Zaa Nkweta]]) holds his R5.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Maxine Barnol ([[Jacqueline Lord]]) fires an R5 during the shootout in the lighthouse.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A henchman fires his R5 in the final scene.]]
In several scenes a version of R5 with additional front grip can be seen.
[[Image:MfJ-SS77-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dekerk ([[Vivian Bieldt]]) aims a Vektor R5 with front grip. Next to him Kruger ([[Langley Kirkwood]]) holds a [[Vektor SS-77]] machine gun.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A wounded Cape Town SWAT officer drops his R5 with front grip.]]

== Vector R5 (visually modified to resemble AK-47) ==
Many R5s are visually modified to resemble the [[AK-47]] assault rifles. They are fitted with the wooden furniture and AK-style compensators but still can be identified by their angled receivers and Galil-style 5.56mm magazines. Most mercenaries are armed with such rifles.
=== Fake AK-47 ===
The first version of fake AK has a longer barrel and wooden buttstock and resembles [[AK-47]].
[[Image:TypeIII_AK47.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Final Production version of the Type III AK-47 with cleaning rod removed and laminated stock - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A fake AK-47 is seen at the body of a mercenary.]]
=== Fake short AK ===
The second version has the original R5 barrel and folding stock and is fitted only with wooden stock and grip. It distantly resembles [[AKS-74U]] or [[AKMSU]].
[[Image:AK-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|400px|none|AKMSU Krinkov - 7.62x39mm. This is a blank adapted full auto transferable AKM (7.62x39mm) pistol that was converted into a Krinkov via parts kit.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary fires a fake AKMSU.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary runs with a fake AKMSU.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another mercenary fires a fake AKMSU with folded stock.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John Seeger ([[Steven Seagal]]) holds a fake AKMSU during the shootout in the lighthouse.]]

== AK-47 ==
Genuine [[AK-47]]s can also be seen in the movie. They are probably from Bulgarian arsenals (the Bulgarian army used 7.62mm AKs for the longest time of all Eastern Europe states).
[[Image:TypeIII AK47.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Final Production version of the Type III AK-47 with cleaning rod removed and laminated stock - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A prison guard is killed by throwing knife and falls, dropping his AK-47.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close view at the barrel of an AK-47.]]

== AK-63 F ==
In the opening scene one of the mercenaries on the truck can be seen with a [[AK-47#AMD-65|FEG AK-63 F]], without the slanted muzzle brake.
[[Image:SA85M.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Civillian version of AMM called SA-85M when imported to the U.S. in semi-auto form. - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mercenary to the right appear to be carrying a Hungarian AK-63 F, whoutout the slanted muzzle brake. A barrel of [[PPSh-41]] is seen in hands of a mercenary in the background.]]

== AKMS ==
One of the mercenaries on the truck can be seen a Bulgarian manufactured [[AKM]], without slanted muzzle brake.
[[Image:AKMS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKMS, stamped steel receiver w/ slant muzzle brake and under-folding stock - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mercenary to the left appears to have a Bulgarian manufactured AKMS, without the slanted muzzle brake. Other mercenary, to the right, appears to have a FEG AK-63 D.]]

== AK-63 D ==
Another mercenary on the truck can be seen with what appears to be a [[AK-47#AMD-65|FEG AK-63 D]], without the slanted muzzle brake.
[[Image:AMMS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hungarian AMMSz - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mercenary to the right appears to have a FEG AK-63 D, AMMSz in Hungarian servie, without the slanted muzzle brake.]]

== SIG SG 550 (Airsoft Replica) ==
Several French commandos are armed with assault rifles that resembles the [[SIG SG 550]] but appear to be airsoft replicas. More specifically it appears to be a Spring JP Air Sports Combat 912A, as noted by the shape of the handguard with a bracket for the bipod, and the shape of the magazine. This same replica can be seen in other Bulgarian filmes movies, such as ''[[Infestation]]''.
[[File:Spring JP Air Sports Combat 912A.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Spring JP Air Sports Combat 912A, an airsoft replica of the SIG SG 550]]
[[Image:MfJ-SG551-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A French soldier with a supposed SG 550 guards his colonel.]]
[[Image:MfJ-SG551-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MfJ-SG551-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two French soldiers who carry their wounded comrade are armed with supposed SG 550s. Note that the barrel of the rifle of the first soldiers looks bent, strongly suggesting that it is a prop or replica weapon.]]

== Vektor CR-21 ==
Dekerk ([[Vivian Bieldt]]) carries a [[Vektor CR-21]] assault rifle during the attack on the villa of the French ambassador in the opening scene.
[[Image:Vektor-cr21-1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Vektor CR-21 bullpup rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-CR21-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dekerk climbs a rope with CR-21 at his back.]]
[[Image:MfJ-CR21-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dekerk holds his CR-21. Next to him is a female mercenary ([[Verity Price]]) with a pistol.]]
[[Image:MfJ-CR21-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A barrel of CR-21 is seen in the jeep near Dekerk. Note the [[M26 hand grenade]].]]

== Heckler & Koch G3 ==
[[Heckler & Koch G3]] assault rifles are seen in hands of Greek soldiers during the scene in the house of Ahmet Dasan (Peter Butler) in Athens.
[[Image:SouthAfricanG3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|South African version of the Heckler & Koch G3A3 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MfJ-G3-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MfJ-G3-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== M4 Carbine ==
[[Colt M4]] carbines are seen several times in hands of the guards of the villa of the French ambassador in the opening scene. They immediately switches to [[Vektor R5]] rifles in a continuity error. As a guess they are airsoft guns.
[[Image:ColtM4_FirstVersion.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt M4A1 Carbine with 4 position collapsible stock - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-M4-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A female mercenary ([[Verity Price]]) incapacitates a guard who carries an M4 carbine. Note that his comrade is armed with [[Vektor R5]]. When the body of the first guard is seen on the ground his rifle switches to R5.]]
[[Image:MfJ-M4-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Now the second guard's R5 switches to M4 carbine, and after he is killed, the rifle switches back to R5.]]

== Arsenal AR (visually modified to resemble M16) ==
[[M16A2]] assault rifles, that are seen in the scene of the funeral of "Radio" Jones ([[Zaa Nkweta]]), are really visually modified Bulgarian [[Arsenal AR]]s. The same convertion can be seen in other Bulgarian-filmed movies, such as ''[[Universal Soldier: Regeneration]]'', ''[[Tournament, The (2009)|The Tournament]]'' and ''[[Day of the Dead (2008)|Day of the Dead]]''.
[[Image:BulgAR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Bulgarian AR - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[Image:MfJ-M16-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

= Machine Guns =
== Vektor SS-77 ==
[[Vektor SS-77]] machine guns are used by mercenaries in the opening scene. It is also mounted on the helicopter.
[[Image:Ss77.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Vektor SS-77 - 7.62x51mm General Purpose Machine Gun]]
[[Image:MfJ-SS77-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kruger ([[Langley Kirkwood]]) holds a Vektor SS-77 machine gun. Next to him Dekerk ([[Vivian Bieldt]]) aims a [[Vektor R5]] with front grip.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Pistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vektor SS-77 is seen behind Dekerk and Kruger. Note that the rounds in the belt are with bullets.]]
[[Image:MfJ-SS77-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary fires a Vektor SS-77 machine gun.]]
[[Image:MfJ-SS77-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The female mercenary ([[Verity Price]]) holds SS-77.]]
[[Image:MfJ-SS77-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close view at a Vektor SS-77.]]
[[Image:MfJ-SS77-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary examines a Vektor SS-77 during the preparation for the mission in Cape Town (but SS-77 wasn't used in the mission).]]

== RPD ==
An [[RPD]] machine gun with an addition of a cinematic barrel shroud and a carrying handle is briefly seen in hands of a French soldier in the opening scene. This scene was filmed in Bulgaria.
[[Image:RPD-Light-Machine-Gun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|RPD Light Machine Gun - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-MachineGun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A soldier with his machine gun. At the left a three-barrelled Gatling gun mounted on MT-LB armoured tracked vehicle is seen.]]

== Three-Barrelled Gatling Gun ==
A three-barrelled Gatling gun is mounted on MT-LB armoured tracked vehicle. It distantly resembles [[General Dynamics GAU-19/A]]. The scene in which this gun appeares was filmed in Bulgaria.
[[Image:MfJ-GatlingMG-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This gun is seen at the left side.]]

== PKT machine gun ==
[[PK Machine Gun|PKT]] machine guns are mounted of T-72 tanks.
[[Image:Machine_gun_PKT.jpg|thumb|400px|none|PKT machine gun with 250-round ammo drum - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:MfJ-T72-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PKT is seen near the 125mm gun barrel.]]

= Hand Grenades =
== M26 Hand Grenade ==
Many mercenaries carry [[M26 hand grenade]]s. Due to the bright green color and clear "M26" markings on them the grenades are supposed to be training ones.
[[Image:200px-M-67handgrenade.jpg|thumb|200px|none|M26 High-Explosive Fragmentation hand grenade]]
[[Image:MfJ-CR21-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dekerk ([[Vivian Bieldt]]) carries an M26 grenade and a charge of plastic explosives. Note the barrel of his [[Vektor CR-21]] next to him.]]
[[Image:MfJ-GrenadeM26-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M26 grenades are carried by Dekerk (who also carries [[Vektor CR-21]]) and Kruger (who also carries [[BPX]] SMG). Note the barrel of the [[Vektor SS-77]] machine gun behind them.]]
[[Image:MfJ-GrenadeM26-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close view at M26 grenade.]]

== Mecar M72 Hand Grenade ==
Several mercenaries, including Samuel Kay ([[Michael Kenneth Williams]]), carry what appear to be [[Mecar M72 hand grenade]]s.
[[Image:325 products mecar 05 JPG 150 150.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mecar M72 High-Explosive Fragmentation hand grenade]]
[[Image:MfJ-PPSh-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary with [[PPSh-41]] carries two [[Mecar M72 hand grenade]]s.]]
[[Image:MfJ-GrenadeMk2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Samuel Kay carries three [[Mecar M72 hand grenade]]s.]]
[[Image:MfJ-GrenadeMk2-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Samuel Kay threatens Dekerk and Kruger with readied [[Mecar M72 hand grenade]].]]

== Stun Grenade ==
A stun grenade is carried by John Seeger ([[Steven Seagal]]) though he never used it in action. Later, in the scene in Cape Town bank Seeger takes a stun grenade from SWAT officer and uses it.
[[Image:MfJ-GrenadeStun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Letters "STUN" and "2-N-6" are seen on the grenade. Seeger also carries another grenade which is painted black with red strip.]]
[[Image:MfJ-GrenadeStun-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A stun grenade is seen in the pocket of shot SWAT officer during the scene in Cape Town bank.]]

== Unidentified Grenades ==
An unidentified grenade are also carried by John Seeger.
[[Image:MfJ-GrenadeStun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Seeger carries a grenade which is painted black with red strip. His other grenade is a stun one (black with "STUN" on it).]]

= Other Weapons =
== RPG-7 ==
[[RPG-7]] rocket launchers are used by mercenaries in the opening scene.
[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg|thumb|400px|none|RPG-7 - 40mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-RPG7-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary holds an RPG-7.]]
[[Image:MfJ-RPG7-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary readies to fire.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Launcher-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another mercenary carries an RPG-7 at the background.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Mortar-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|At the right RPG-7 is leaning against the wall.]]

== Milkor Stopper ==
[[Milkor Stopper]] grenade launcher is used by a mercenary in the opening scene.
[[File:Stopper 38mm grenade launcher (South Africa).jpg|thumb|350px|none|Milkor Stopper - 38mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-Launcher-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary runs with his grenade launcher. Note the grenade bandolier on his belt.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Launcher-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary loads his grenade launcher. His comrade carries an [[RPG-7]] at the background.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Launcher-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close view at the launcher.]]

== AL-1 Line Thrower ==
An AL-1 Line Thrower, based on [[SPSh Flare Pistol]], is used by the mercenaries during the mission in Cape Town, standing for a grenade launcher. This gun produces a large muzzle flame, and its cinematic effect is compared with a field cannon. Kruger ([[Langley Kirkwood]]) uses this weapon to destroy a police car.
[[Image:AL-1 Line Thrower.jpg|thumb|400px|none|AL-1 Line Thrower, based on SPSh Flare Pistol, - 90 mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-Flare-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A typical grip of SPSh can be seen.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Flare-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A mercenary fire the gun.]]

== SA-7 ==
What appears to be a mockup of an [[SA-7 Grail]] rocket launcher is used by a prison guard against the mercenaries during the mission in Cape Town.
[[Image:800px-SA-7.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA-7 Grail launcher and missile - 70mm]]
[[Image:MfJ-Rocket-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A prison guard with a rocket launcher on the rooftop.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Rocket-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A prison guard aims a rocket launcher at the armoured car.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Rocket-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closer view at a part of launcher. The red-orange armored car is a former Soviet BRDM-2 armoured patrol car. Such vehicles were exported to Angola and Mozambique and some of them were captured by South African forces during the border conflicts.]]

== Mortar ==
A mortar (due to its size it can be 120mm) is used by mercenaries in the opening scene.
[[Image:MfJ-Mortar-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A baseplate and mortar shells are seen. At the right [[RPG-7]] is leaning against the wall.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Mortar-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The mortar fires.]]

== Smoke Mortars ==
''Tucha'' (Cloud) smoke mortars are part of armament of T-72 tank.
[[Image:MfJ-T72-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Smoke mortars are seen on the side of the tank turret.]]

= Trivia =
== Tanks and armoured vehicles ==
[[Image:MfJ-T72-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|T-72B tanks. Note that [[NSVT]] neavy machine guns were removed from the mountings on the turrets.]]
[[Image:MfJ-MTLB-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two MT-LB armoured tracked vehicles. MT-LB is typically armed with [[PK Machine Gun|PKT]] machine gun but these vehicles has their PKTs removed from turrets.]]

== Prop Guns ==
[[Image:MfJ-R5-bentbarrel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note the bent barrel of a rifle.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Unknown-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In several scenes when a soldier or a mercenary is falling from a height this prop weapon is seen.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:South African Produced/Filmed]]
[[Category:Don E. FauntLeRoy]]

Talk:Mercenary for Justice

2016-03-12T08:50:08Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Unidentified machine gun */ new section

==Fake AKs==
Are you sure these are fake? They look like they have 7.62x39mm magazines, which means they would not be mocked up R5. The ones in the second picture look like they have the AKMS/AKS-47-style swing-under folding stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:43, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mercenaries with fake AK-47s.]]
[[Image:MfJ-R5-AK-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mercenaries with fake [[AKS-47]]s. These rifles has their buttstocks removed.]]
:I'm completly unsure about these guns. At first I identified them (and also the AKs in hands of prison guards in Cape Town) as real AK-47s. Then I looked at several fake AKs with wooden buttstocks and thought that I made a mistake and they all are fake - if the moviemakers had real AKs in their disposal why they used fake ones? So I'm confused. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 11:17, 4 September 2012 (CDT)

== Fake MP5? ==

Gun of this scene, but it look to fake MP5, What do you think?What do you think? Although it appears to be from [[PPS-43]] mods that appeared in "[[Behind Enemy Lines II: Axis of Evil]]"?

[[File:MfJ-MP5-02.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[File:BEL2-FakeMP5SideShotA.jpg|thumb|500px|none|[[PPSh-41 / PPS-43#PPS-43|PPS-43]] mocked up to look like an [[MP5]] in [[Behind Enemy Lines II: Axis of Evil]].]]

[[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] 10:06, 7 December 2012 (JST)
:Nice catch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:18, 6 December 2012 (EST)
:: I made the corrections in the article. Thanks for clarification. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 00:19, 7 December 2012 (EST)

== Fake M-16/AK ==

[[Image:MfJ-M16-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
Can anybody else see the AK Ladder sights on these M-16s? Also look at the receiver on the one second down on the left and the magazine well of the first on the right. Looks like these are those M-16 Mock-ups made from AKs.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] ([[User talk:Mattatack92|talk]]) 20:49, 6 December 2012 (EST)

In Fake M16 of remodeling [[Arsenal AR]] for shooting that appeared in "[[Universal Soldier: Regeneration]]" ,"[[Tournament, The (2009) ]]" and "[[Day of the Dead (2008) ]]" What is it? --[[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] ([[User talk:KINKI'boy|talk]]) 11:12, 7 December 2012 (JST)
:According to IMDb, this was filmed in South Africa and Bulgaria, so it makes sense. If they shot a scene in Russia using the faux MG34 made from a PKM, we'd hit the fake gun trifecta. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 21:46, 6 December 2012 (EST)
:: I made the corrections in the article. Thanks for clarification. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 00:19, 7 December 2012 (EST)

== Not a Vektor pistol? ==

It seems to me now that I was wrong when identified these pistols as Vektor Z88:
[[Image:MfJ-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MfJ-Beretta-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This pistol has a different shape of muzzle.]]
[[Image:MfJ-Beretta-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|And this one has a round trigger guard.]]
- [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 15:02, 21 February 2013 (EST)

== Unidentified machine gun ==

In the UN scene, the elusive mounted machine gun is a (slightly mocked up) RPD I reckon. This wasn't a purely intuitive identification based on the filming location, but also notice the stock shape and the iron sights, the drum magazine, and to the less noticeable extent, the distance between the drum and the pistol grip. The prop was given a barrel shroud and a carry handle to give it a more viable NATO aesthetic. Perhaps it's meant to be the stand in for a Minimi variant. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 03:50, 12 March 2016 (EST)

Talk:Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

2015-11-04T21:31:31Z

BeloglaviSup: /* MT5 smg */

== The game's frankenguns and their counterparts from previous games ==

WU Silent Pistol = Mk. 22 + Ruger Mk. III (MGS4)

AM D114 Pistol = Colt M1911A1

Burkov = Makarov PM

Windurger S333 = Smith & Wesson Model 19 (PW)

Sz.-336 = Vz. 61

Maschinen Taktische Pistole 5 = MP5A2

S1000 Shotgun = Ithaca M37

Rasp SBS = "Twin Barrel"

AM MSR-4 = M4A1 (MGS4) + Colt Model 653 (PW)

AM-69 = M16A1

SVG-76 = AK-47/RK-47 (PW)

Bambetov SV = SVD Dragunov

M2000-D = Remington 700 (PW)

FB R-Launcher = Carl Gustav M2 (PW)

'''Unknown:'''

URAGAN-5 = Unknown. New weapon?

== About the 'new' Frankenguns policy in MGS ==
(moved from [[Talk:Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes]])

This thing has been festering longer than people think. I just discovered that the Konami's Frankengunning of MGS has been in effect since 2012, beginning with Metal Gear Solid - Social Ops, a 3D mobile game that released exclusively in Japan for the iPhone and Android smartphones.

From MGS wiki as of November 5 2014:

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_Social_Ops#Behind_the_scenes

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_V_weapons_and_equipment#Behind_the_scenes

"MGS SOP" involves gameplay/re-enactment from the games Metal Gear Solid 3 - Snake Eater and Metal Gear Solid - Peace Walker. Social Ops was similar to the Metal Gear Acid series in terms of character movement and its use of items and weapons via trading cards.

For cards with rendered art (art not pulled straight from a game) - with few exceptions - the weapons are replaced with a counter-part from MGSV. For example, Old Snake from Metal Gear Solid 4 is seen holding a SVG-76 instead of a AK-102 or a AM-69 instead of a M4 Custom, and Peace Walker-era Snake is seen holding a AM-69 rather than a M16A1.

Also several newer promotional renders, along with several older ones (i.e. promotional images of Peace Walker) of previous games have had their previously real life weapons replaced with a Metal Gear Solid V equivalent.
For example - as stated previously; Big Boss with M16A1 from Peace Walker and Old Snake with M4 custom from MGS4 are now both shown holding AM Rifle Type 69 instead.
This is also seen on promotional images with The Legacy Collection that was released in Summer of 2013 worldwide. For example; In new HD render art of Solid Snake is seen with a Wu Silent Pistol in his holster instead of a Mk23 SOCOM.

The reasons for the changes are yet to be stated. It's claimed that Konami had gotten in legal problems with gun licencing for exploiting loopholes via Airsoft company Tokyo Marui partnership. Therefore they cannot use designs patented by major weapons manufacturers and can only use non-conflicting designs provided by Tokyo Marui. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 12:49, 5 November 2014 (EST)

:As I said before, call bullshit that Konami couldn't get image rights to use real life guns or that the AK variant is copyrighted. Is Russia knocking on Konami's doors about the image? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:01, 5 November 2014 (EST)

::This is all getting pretty strange. How do you use an "airsoft loophole"? Claim that your ingame guns are just modelled after airsoft guns? Besides, wasn't there a court case that decided that "M4" is now a generic term (like "M1911") that can't be copyrighted/trademarked? Why can't Old Snake keep his, then? Did Konami face a major lawsuit? Or were licensing fees getting too expensive after Peace Walker? Or is Konami overreacting in some way? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 21:51, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Combination of gross overreaction and licensing expenses IMO. Though, it’s more likely that it’s MGS4’s – and not PW’s - gun licensing that came around to bite Konami in the ass.

If you ask me, '''''the whole thing could very well be connected to something in Japanese law that we might not know about.'''''

And yes, the “airsoft loophole” is ''"allegedly"'' a thing in Japan. It works by having some Airsoft manufacturer in sponsor-/partnership with the work in question, and if somebody starts blowing whistles they just can defend themselves by saying that they are promoting (Airsoft Manufacturer’s) product(s) and not actual firearm company's. (Ridiculous, I know.)

One of the most well-known exploiters of this has been Capcom’s Resident Evil/Bio Hazard. RE and Tokyo Marui have been connected since RE2, with partnership beginning since Capcom commissioned Tokyo Marui to release an Airsoft replicas of the in-game variations of the Desert Eagle wielded by Leon S. Kennedy. [[Resident Evil 5]] is good a good example of “the loophole” in full force. If you take a good look of the RE5 arsenal and are aware what’s in Tokyo Marui’s catalog around 2009, you’ll notice that all the '''non'''-franken-/heavily edited guns have Tokyo Marui counterparts – with some exceptions. Same deal with RE Relevations 1, notably featuring the Smith & Wesson 3566 under the guise of Tokyo Marui’s “PC356” replica of the aforementioned pistol. Although judging from RE6, the “all frankenguns policy” has affected RE as well. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 13:40, 11 November 2014 (EST)

:Then what about the gun designs that can't be copyrighted/trademarked, like the M4, the M1911, or AK-style rifles? It does speak of "overreaction" as well. And what's keeping Konami from paying the licensing fees again? I don't think they're in financial trouble like Capcom and Sega currently are.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:45, 27 November 2014 (EST)

==Unknown SMG==
Anybody know what these are?

[[File:MGS5Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:05, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:Considering all footage shown so far, showing relatively narrow arsenal assets, I'm willing to say pretty surely that it's the same MP9 as in Ground Zeroes. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:24, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

But whats the point of holding them sideways like that especially with the ejection port facing up.--[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 17:40, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:I assume however, it could be held sideways because they are so densely packed together, using it as a method of evading to shower their mates with hot brass. I'm puzzled as to why they are holding them ejection port upwards, but it could be some recoil controlling technique perhaps even a depiction of the C.A.R. technique. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 18:03, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::You are thinking about it too much, I would highly doubt that anyone involved in this decision has even heard of the CAR technique. My guess is that they are doing it because someone thinks it looks cool, particularly if you get to have the cases spraying upwards into the air showing off some nice physics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::I don't know about the guns, but the stuff on the soldiers backs seem to resemble the fuel canisters for the M2 Flamethrower or a similar flamethrower. What I do know is that whatever the make, the backpack is undeniably a flamethrower weapon. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:50, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think they are, more likely they are air tanks as they appear to be wearing breathing apparatus. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:39, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Found another gun image, it's from the last few seconds of the VGA trailer:
:::[[File:Pp12.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:::Don't know if its the same gun or a different gun, but still, hope I helped. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

The The Phantom Pain and Ground Zero is the same game. They've just announced that. So one of these pages has got to go [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:47, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:The last I read (earlier today) "Ground Zeroes" is the prologue to "The Phantom Pain" which taken together make up MGS5, but they would not confirm whether or not they were shipping it as one game or two separate ones. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::Well, I advocated patience and just waiting for official word earlier, I don't know why people are in such a rush. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:22, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Yeah, here's a bit of a problem, though: Konami told GameSpot that they are two separate games. Jay Boor, director of PR, stated they are two separate games, and the official MGS facebook page (which is owned by Konami and Kojima Productions) not only stated they were two different games, they even quoted Kojima's twitter on it. We keep them separate. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 20:46, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::If they truly are separate games, then why does the new trailer contain footage from BOTH teasers and titled it MGS5 The Phantom Pain? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::If I recall correctly, ''Peace Walker'' and ''Portable Ops'' also contained footage from ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' in their debut trailers, so I doubt it would mean much. Even if it did, it's likely that they are somewhat connected, but still separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::I don't ever remember they using footage from MGS3 to advertise that the final product will look like Portable Ops or Peacewalker. The recent trailer did not even state they were two separate games. It didn't say Ground Zeroes once, it only titled itself as MGS5 The Phantom Pain. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:58, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::Portable Ops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0NUg0DLMpQ
:::::::Peace Walker TGS2009 Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b5trPeM9wI
:::::::Both of these trailers showed footage from ''MGS3'', at least at the beginning of the trailer. And the trailer may not have stated they were two separate games, but Konami and other official sources stated they are. Heck, even Kojima stated that the sequence he showed in TPP was actually the tutorial at the beginning of a game, despite claiming that Ground Zeroes was the prologue. The only way to claim both to be true is if they are indeed separate games. And besides, Kojima also stated that both Rising and Peace Walker were Metal Gear Solid 5 in interviews, even though back then it was clear as day they were separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 23:16, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I am still holding out that it's all misdirection on part of the creator. It seems odd to market 2 games at the same time. Are both going to be released at the same time? in one box? a year apart? There's a lot of questions from a production standpoint [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:22, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::::And going back to the portable games trailers with MGS3 footage. Those were the Japanese trailers and the MGS3 footages serve as a jump off point. If you were to compare advertising like that to these games, it would be like watching a trailer of MGS5 starting off with a couple scenes from MGS4, 2 completely different games but obviously has connections to each other since they exist in the same universe. You can't argue because the portable games did it so it makes sense for the new MGS5 trailer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:26, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::::It's not odd at all that they'd market two completely different games at the same time. Heck, Lords of Shadows 2 actually marketed both the console game and the portable game at the exact same time in E3 2012, and Epic Mickey 2 also did the same with two games that were completely different. And misdirection or not, I sincerely doubt Kojima'd refer to the opening scene of TPP as being the tutorial to the game AFTER marketing it as the same as Ground Zeroes. You can't have a tutorial level after the main prologue of a game. Did we have that in the Plant Chapter of MGS2? Operation Snake Eater in MGS3? Any of the levels after Liquid Sun in MGS4? Any of the levels after the intro to Peace Walker? There is a way for games to be separate and the same at the exact same time though: Think Sonic 4. Separate releases, same game. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 12:07, 21 April 2013 (EDT)

==Gun wish list==
Here's some guns I hope will come for the game since Kojima confirmed The Phantom Pain will take place around 1984. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:52, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

The first is a Glock and not the Glock 18.
Galil

CZ75

UZI

ASP9

M14

AK74

FAL

Valmet series

Browning HP

VP70

Beretta 93R

SIG SG 540

XL64E5

FAMAS

More M16 variants

Daewoo K1 / K2

Mini-14

SA Vz.58

AR-18

Different AK variants

Guns that I personally predict would be useable: --[[User:Btgr|Btgr]] ([[User talk:Btgr|talk]]) 18:58, 6 July 2013 (EDT)

Makarov PM

Stetchkin APS

M1911A1

Any .357 Magnum revolver made by Smith & Wesson, Colt or Ruger

SPAS-12

Lee-Enfield

SKS

PPSh-41

Sterling SMG

BXP or Skorpion

AKS-74U

GP-25 (for the AK47 variant)

M203 (for the SAR-80)

FN MAG-58

PKM

RPG-7

M72 LAW

FIM-92 Stinger

RGD-5 or M67

Heckler & Koch G11

Railgun

==New Red band trailer==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gEqmkduIeMU

:Am the only one, but are there quite a lot of hybrid firearms on display here? Take a closer look at those AKs, both the 7.62 and 5.56 versions. AK-74 stand-ins have a ring sight mounted on the back of the receiver, and [http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/14607241/mgs5_phantom_pain.0_cinema_640.0.jpg 7.62 ones have a bizarre wooden front grip, AKS-74U patterned back sights along with a pretty western looking flash hider]. Now those are some jive-ass Kalashnikovs if I ever laid my very one eyes upon one. Is anyone a bit more versed as to why Kojima suddenly went for this bizarre change? --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:26, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

I'll admit it is unusual, but at least they look like they can exist unlike Resident Evil 6 where all guns seemed like frankenguns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:58, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

==Getting the feeling of anachronism ==
I wonder, with the recent trailer, a lot of the tech and gear are a bit anachronistic for the 80s like Skull face's men. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:19, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
:Dudes got a robot arm, I don't think historical accuracy is a big deal.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 20:49, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
::That's a BS argument. If that's the excuse, why not all guns be fictional and they start using halo plasma rifles and phasers? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Kojima has said that MGS takes place in an alternate time line from the real world, so there being anachronisms in weapons and technology really shouldn't matter all that much, I mean hell, Peace Walker had some weapons that weren't made until the 80's and I believe some that weren't made until the 90's, so it's a little late for the "This is anachronistic!" arguments.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 23:08, 24 September 2013 (EDT)
::::Kojima has confirmed that ''"Weapons will be based off of weapons found in the 1980's"''. --[[User:Btgr|Btgr]] ([[User talk:Btgr|talk]]) 04:31, 29 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::Let's hope they actually ARE real guns and not completely fictionalized guns, as Ground Zeroes is not giving me good hopes on that (like the WU gun). I mean, with Rising, its completely acceptable, since it took place well into the future of not only our time, but also in-universe. Considering games taking place both before and after MGSV (both GZ and TPP) used real life weaponry, going the Resident Evil route is jarring, especially considering the Fox Engine was meant to bring out more realism. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 09:49, 24 November 2013 (EST)
I can agree. The fact that MGS4 had so many well made real life models makes this whole deal very odd to me. Why would they have made these franken guns instead of the actual weapons in the 80's? [[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 23:56, 11 July 2014 (EDT)

== Single Action Army and other guns ==

Not much to go off but Ocelot's gun does not look like an SAA at all. It looks like some kind of top breaker. Do you think the guns in this one are going to be generic instead of actual models like they've been before?--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] ([[User talk:Acepeacemaker|talk]])
:I would agree that it looks nothing like a Colt, more like a Webley, but it isn't a perfect match for that either. As far as I can tell every one of these weapons is a hybrid or fabrication of some sort. The AK is the same shape as an AK-47, but every single part of it is wrong in some way. The rifle used by Skull Face's guys is pretty close to a real gun, as everything up the the rear of the handguard is a SIG SG 550, but ahead of that it goes to hell (looks a bit like an FNC from that point on). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:12, 12 June 2013 (EDT)
::Yeah back to the AK, in the shot I took of Snake disarming a guy, that AK has the elevated rear sight like a Galil [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:33, 12 June 2013 (EDT)
:::That AK is such a mess it is ridiculous. if you look at the receiver it actually appears to be partly based on that of an FN FAL (left side reflected on both sides of the AK) with an AKM dust cover with an AKS-74U rear sight. Added to this you have the weird straight post front sight (which I think I recognise from something but can't place), the slotted flash hider which looks a bit like a shortened Druganov, a vent-less handguard which looks like it has an M16A2 handguard texture applied to it, and a gas block like nothing I have seen on an AK. Also, unless they are at different game build stages there are two different rifles here, as the one with the rear sight at the top of the back cover has a Bakelite style 5.45×39mm style mag with the shallower curve. The guns are so f'ed up in this game so far that I almost get the feeling that they weren't actually designed for it, they just took existing models from other games and messed them up in the hopes that nobody would notice. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:22, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

:::I took a look around at some AK variants and the front sight post that you mentioned you couldn't place looks like it's from the AK-74. Could also be taken from the PKM. Take a look at the entry for [[9th Company]] and compare --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 05:09, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think so, the AK-74 front sight has a sloped back and a cut out in the middle, whereas this is vertical front and back and has no cut out. It also attaches to the barrel in a different way to any of the AK type sights. I've since remembered the thing it reminds me of, which is the front sight used on the original Gerat 06 prototype. I highly doubt this is what they deliberately based it on as this is such an obscure weapon, but this is what it reminded me of when I first saw it:[[File:Mauser Gerat 06 Early.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Mauser Gerat 06 - 7.92×33mm Kurz]] --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:05, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::I just noticed, it also looks a lot like the front sight on the Knorr-Bremse paratrooper rifle prototype as seen [http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6949/knorrbremse1pz5.jpg here], the groove up the side is very similar. Both this and the Gerat 06 front sight are hooded though, although if they just used a random side on image they found as a reference you might not necessarily realise and model it as open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:26, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

::Yeah, the AK (in-game name is currently SVG-76) is a mingling of numerous AK-variants. Rear sights altering between the Valmet/Galil/Vektor variants and the AKMSU ones, magazines altering between the long 7.62 ones and 5.45 bakelite ones and so on. And since the AK is (arguably) inspired by StG 44, it may just also borrow elements from other weapons notably inspired by StG 44. This is probably just to have a "universal in-game AK". The game - from what I understand - takes place in handful of hotspots of early-mid 1980's and therefore it'd be tricky for armed groups - ranging from African Guerillas to Soviet Ground Forces at their technological peak - to reliably have the very specific variant of certain firearm in use, as there tends to be tiny variations from country to country. Though, why do the Soviets have the Valmet/Galil sights on their AK variants? I thought Mikhail Kalashnikov and majority of AK users in Soviet/Russian army hated the Valmet style rear sights!? [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 03:04, 18 August 2014 (EDT)

Let's hope the final product is a little different than advertised. In previous games, the weapons were slightly altered from early footage. In a way, the different weapon designs give off a sense of familiar yet alternate view of the period that the game takes place in. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:43, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

Anyway, you think the revolve might be a Nagant? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:45, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== Punished Snakes Camo ==

can anyone identify the camo snake uses in the phantom pain trailer ? looks like tiger stripe but is more arid, but not the same as the desert tiger stripe that Drebin wears

cheers

[[User:Sike|Sike]] ([[User talk:Sike|talk]]) 18:35, 3 May 2014 (EDT)

Drebin wears Desert DPM by the looks of it. Snake has Desert Tiger Stripe. Also it's Big Boss not Snake.
[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 23:52, 11 July 2014 (EDT)

yes i know he is Big Boss, but he is also refered to as Venom Snake(latest e3) and Kaz calls him Snake in the trailer. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] ([[User talk:Sike|talk]]) 08:28, 23 August 2014 (EDT)

:Eh, we'll just keep calling him Big Boss, that's who he is the rest of the time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:05, 10 January 2015 (EST)

==Finished product==

So from all the recent game footages, it looks like all these franken guns are going to remain. Which is unfortunate. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:20, 13 August 2014 (EDT)

:Much too bad, really. MGS1 started the trend of authentic firearms in the series, and now we've jumped straight into the realm of fictional firearms. Of course, the likes of the Foxhound unit in the first game were certainly fantastical, but the modelled-from-real-life hardware gave it a certain anchor to reality. There were certainly lots of period-accurate firearms that Kojima and his team could have modelled for this game, but for no reason I can fathom, historical accuracy for firearms seems to no longer be a priority for this series, leaving us fans of authentic weaponry in games out in the cold for this title. It makes me wonder if Kojima will also use fictional guns for his upcoming [[Silent Hill]] game starring [[Norman Reedus]], which is another Konami series that has generally used realistically-modelled guns. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 20:04, 14 August 2014 (EDT)

::It's not even just Kojima. It's becoming a trend for games to feature mostly fictional guns. Look at Resident Evil and GTA. Both game series featured guns modeled on real life counterparts for the most part in the past. It's a shame and I hope this trend doesn't take over most games. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:::Well, to be fair, in Peace Walker, Mother Base invented virtually every weapon that would be invented for the next thirty years, so it does ''sort of'' make sense... [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:49, 19 December 2014 (EST)

:::: If it's any consolation, somebody will probably mod the game to add real weapons when it comes to PC. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 17:12, 19 December 2014 (EST)

:::::My theory is Ground Zeroes (and this, if it's similar) are actually a Grim And Adult story written by Huey about Big Boss. When he reads it he glares and goes YOU'RE FIRED and kicks Huey into the sea and that's why Huey isn't working for Big Boss when Otacon is born. Calling it now. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:16, 1 January 2015 (EST)

::::@Yocapo32 - you might be on to something. Ground Zeroes's FOX Engine has been recently cracked. http://dev.cra0kalo.com/?p=268 [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 04:33, 4 January 2015 (EST)

Well for the GTA series, most of the guns were pretty real. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:22, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:Yeah, I meant that GTA V didnt have real models, but the series did in the past. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:33, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

::Well, referring to the new Silent Hill game, Silent Hill doesn't really provide the player with any significant firepower (the MAC-10 in Silent Hill 3 was the only full auto weapon in the series so far), so I'm gonna guess that we'll be getting a hold of some kind of Beretta, or maybe a generic 1911. Heavier weapons might be generic shotguns or bolt action rifles, though. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 13:10, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:There was the MAC-11 in [[Silent Hill 4]]. But you didn't have direct control over that weapon. I was hoping that a Silent Hill game by Kojima would feature realistic capacities for more ingame guns (such as 15 rounds or more in a "wonder nine," like the S&W Sigma from the first game), but now that it looks like he's gone into fictional firearm territory for his flagship series that's unlikely now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 04:19, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

:The PMCs had the M4 and snake had a GSR right up until the release and then SBR SCAR-H's and snakes operator came out of no where... Hoping that is the case, but in yongs video, ocelots dudes still had the FNC frankengun that is paramount in every video so far... Really hoping, but worried, and think it might taint the game a little but if I have to deal with stupid guns...

Seriously, is it so hard for them to use real guns instead of inventing fictional ones? I mean the PSP game that came before all used real guns and that's a PSP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:44, 12 September 2014 (EDT)

After watching a new cutscene involving Quiet, I am just bothered by how they didn't animate a sling for Snake even in the cutscene? Seriously, it looks like it's glued to his side pouch [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:42, 25 September 2014 (EDT)

:Not quite sure, but I think this is largely due to cutscenes being animated in real-time, rather then being pre-rendered. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 01:33, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

I believe The revolvers Ocelot uses in the MGO trailer bare a strong resemblance to the Mateba 2006m Icould be wrong though http://img01.militaryblog.jp/usr/toyguncatalog/MATEBA-1s.jpg

We've already sorta ID the gun. It's pretty much the fictional URAGAN-5. He's even carrying the shotgun shells for the gun...Seriously I rolled my eyes that they couldn't give him back his SAAs. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:07, 1 January 2015 (EST)

:I feel this further supports my idea that this story is entirely in the imagination of the guy who thought putting an Easter island head and a chainsaw arm on a tank made any kind of sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:40, 2 January 2015 (EST)
:What are you talking about?

== Best item in MGS history ==

Apparently this works like the playboy / book / magazine and cements that Mother Base is silly.

[[Image:MGS5-BestItem.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

I really hope this is in singleplayer. I will call it Lil' Boss. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:01, 10 January 2015 (EST)

:Did you play MGS4's multiplayer? Not only did they use books to distract other players for a brief time, there was also the very silly "Charm" skill, which you can see demonstrated [http://youtu.be/4GQV8AuMVRw here].

:Anyway, this concept of "cute stuffed animal used as a distraction" has had some real-life attempts based on it, such as disguising the muzzle of a cornershot weapon. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:17, 11 January 2015 (EST)

::I'm not sure if anyone's ever used that thing seriously, though. And generally you're not hoping your opponent will be tricked into petting the Cornershot. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 06:53, 18 January 2015 (EST)

:::Vietcong used to place explosives inside kids toys all the time during the Vietnam war, so it's not a massive departure from reality, (Here's hoping it's not just a distraction but can in fact be armed). [[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 12:57, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

::::Didn't Soviets also use toys to trick Afghan child soldiers into activating booby traps and such? It's been confirmed that atleast one section of the game takes place admist of Soviet war in Afghanistan and that child soldiers are to be featured in certain numbers. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 08:47, 18 January 2015 (EST)

:::::I'm not sure about deliberate usage of rigged toys specifically against child soldiers in Afghan, but the PFM-1 mine, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda#Toy-shaped_land_mines infamous for it's unassuming shape], has been known to have caused notorious causalities with unassuming children who associated the smooth and unconventional shape of the airdropped mine to a piece of a plastic toy. However, the shape and size of the object weren't dictated by a purposeful and vengeful Soviet anti-children doctrine, rather by unfortunate effects of aerodynamics. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 13:41, 18 January 2015 (EST)

::::::This still establishes that MGS soldiers are effectively just small children when it comes to cute things. And I think the "these were designed to kill kids" allegations date right back to German butterfly bombs from WW2. Also don't blow up the fluffy doggie. What is wrong with you. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 15:18, 18 January 2015 (EST)

:Here's a [http://youtu.be/UIhwnhSmmI8 video link] showing the "cute animal disguise" applied to a cornershot weapon (I would assume it's supposed to look unassuming at a distance, because up close it's clearly not very realistic, not to mention how in real life, small animals in war zones tend to be mangy or bearing scars from the challenges of surviving in such a hostile environment). I can think of one unintended consequence if that disguise becomes commonplace, though. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:10, 19 January 2015 (EST)

== Bullpup ==

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8_Tu9LIMAAgkHW.jpg:large

Can see part of a bullpup rifle here. Cheek rest reminds me of FAMAS but it looks like an AK mag in it. Would guess a hybrid of FAMAS and Vepr.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:Methinks this frankie is most likely substitute for Steyr AUG from Peace Walker. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 09:40, 4 February 2015 (EST)
::A clearer pic from a Let's Play vid
http://s28.postimg.org/fws1yimel/fff.png
Receiver definitely looks FAMAS-y. Front end is bastardised.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:::Gives off a heavy Steyr ACR/H&K G-11/ASh-12.7 vibe.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 02:02, 25 August 2015 (EDT)
::::I got to see it in the Mother Base research screen on a livestream and the silhouette is very much like that of the ACR.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== MT5 smg ==

That high bolt puts me in mind of the CZW 9

http://www.czechweapons.com/img/produkty/vojenske-zbrane/samopal-czw-9-m/big/7.jpg

though once you add a silencer on it'll look similar to a Daewoo K7.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

::I am entirely sure that the MACHT37 SMG is ''heavily'' based upon the [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=104:mp2000&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5 MP2000 prototypes]. The resemblance of the foregrip (check out the carbine variant of the in-game Frankengun) and especially the collapsible wire stock is uncanny. The charging handle is also in the pretty much same position. I think it might be the final piece of puzzle in this conglomerate of design. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 16:31, 4 November 2015 (EST)

== Ocelot Revolvers ==

I been looking at the picture, and Ocelot is definitely not wielding URAGAN-5s; They have six chambers, the barrel is much smaller and thinner, and it doesn't have an elevated front sight. It could be a variant that shoots a regular revolver chambering, but there's no way to know at the moment. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 19:52, 5 March 2015 (EST)
:Yeah, and they look much too small for the cartridges he's carrying, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 20:29, 5 March 2015 (EST)

==The anachronism is strong with this game after watching E3 videos ==
So now we have red dot sights on what clearly are EOtech inspired optics. I know this is a very fictional world of the 80s, but compared to previous games in the franchise, they are taking the tech to an extreme. We still don't know why all the fictional guns or a clear report about it, just theories. If they had problems with more western weapons having copy right issues, they are so many other guns that they could get around it like the AK or they could go to other weapons that aren't copyright protected...which again...weird and we got Metal Gear Rising that also used real gun models for some things and that is still a game owned by Konami.

When I first saw the I-Droid, I couldn't stop laughing at how stupid that kind of tech is compared to previously used tech in the MGS series. It boggles my mind how it isn't in continuity with its own universe when it comes to tech and weapons. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:48, 19 June 2015 (EDT)

The first game (Metal Gear Solid, not Metal Gear, in fact yeah, even Metal Gear) has a giant nuclear equipped, walking battle mech, Anachronisms don't really apply to this series, while I'm bummed that the weapons aren't rel world weapons, it makes sense to have their own custom weapons as events in this series happened differently than in the real world which could have easily lead to the creation of different weapons manufacturers than in the real world, at least they actually having some sort of connection/similarities as if they actually have been developed by a real company, not just random designs for each weapon. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 23:32, 19 June 2015 (GMT)

:Eh, Peace Walker had a modern MP3 player as the final Walkman and MSF inventing more or less everything that would be invented for the next twenty years, they're just being consistent. :P I think either they had some deal to make Airsoft versions of their fictional weapons, or Kojima's bought into that stupid "gun companies advertise through games" nonsense which given Big Mama's ridiculous speech about FPSes being PMC propaganda in MGS4 wouldn't surprise me. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 20:06, 19 June 2015 (EDT)

I heard that it was more due to the new customization mechanics. Yoji Shinkawa wanted to make a deeper customization system where you could swap different components between weapons, and this would not work as well with established weapons, where you're bound by real world accessories and rail systems and all that jazz. I'd also like to add on to RedRobinAlphas comment, that in the lore the Patriots had kept most advanced tech like giant mecha and nanomachines under wraps --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:26, 20 June 2015 (EDT)aidoru

:Well yeah, but that doesn't really cover why they'd photoshop the new guns into old images or put them in Ground Zeroes which didn't have those options. And it does cause continuity problems when you then have the later games with only modern weapons in them and no derivatives of these new ones, though it's not like that's much change from the working antigravity system in Peace Walker I guess. There are still anachronisms in the series because MGS1 established this world is more or less like ours in the (then) near future, only now we're discovering that most of the tech that was used in that game was obsolete in the 70s in the game's own universe. Really if they're going to change things this radically they'd be better off doing a clean-slate reboot and make Metal Gear and MGS again with modern resources and a focus on a coherent plot for the whole series.

:I mean to be honest the only reason the realistic attachments in MGS4 were so disappointing was there was only one thing for most of the attachment points and a lot of weapons had no options (like the Russian rifles having no scopes, not even a RIS add-on to use the US ones); especially with a near-future setting they could have had all kinds of things like sensor units and stabilisers and stuff. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:14, 20 June 2015 (EDT)

::Yeah, MGS4 was pretty disappointing in that area, especially the more silly things like the MP7 being unable to take the Aimpoint sight, or the SCAR being unable to take the M320 even though it was perfectly fine on the M4. That said, even with the goofy tech and frankenguns everywhere, I still think this'll be one of the better Metal Gear Solid titles. Nothing will beat blasting Maneater while strafing Soviet outposts from a custom notBlackhawk. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 02:59, 20 June 2015 (EDT)aidoru

:::Oh yeah, I mean if it lets you Fulton sheep and distract people with a fluffy dog it can't be all bad, but I would love to see a modern version of MGS1 with a scaled-up Shadow Moses. Like, not just shoehorning MGS2 mechanics into MGS1 maps like Twin Snakes (I mean given how stupid the Mk 23 is and the range involved, Snake should probably have been able to beat Sniper Wolf with just his sidearm in both fights), but actually ground-up redoing it with a big open map and loads of different approaches, maybe also streamlining the plot with half the number of betrayals so Snake comes off as less of an idiot (I mean how the hell did they expect him to never find out there was a Metal Gear in the base?) and Liquid requires more than a pair of sunglasses to outwit him. Maybe keeping the original MGS1 thing that you can't finish the game without killing anyone because that isn't how spec ops missions work, I'm surprised Kojima's kept that this long given how much he keeps focusing on how War Is Graaagh Harrrgh Arrrgh despite canon Snake being the most harmless soldier in history. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:14, 20 June 2015 (EDT)

::::The M320 thing is actually correct if you think about it (although probably by accident) as the M320 is designed to mount on to only the M16 or M4. You would need a slightly different version if you wanted to rail mount it to a SCAR. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 07:37, 20 June 2015 (EDT)

== Some Frankie Gun names revealed in 2015 E3 Playable Demo ==

https://youtu.be/gtgNUFSoHv8?t=24m36s

[[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 09:41, 20 June 2015 (EDT)

[[Image:MSG5-WeaponList-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Uploaded in case anyone can identify any of the weapons that haven't been identified yet. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 21:10, 20 June 2015 (GMT)
:The thing in the bottom left is a [[Sturmpistole]] without the stock fitted. It actually looks pretty dead on which I think makes it the only gun in the game that isn't a frankengun of some sort. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:14, 20 June 2015 (EDT)
::The Ze'ev is probably meant to be the Uzi equivalent. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:04, 21 June 2015 (EDT)aidoru
:::@Commando552 - also judging from the 2015 E3 gameplay demo, the game's SVD Dragunov replacement - Bambetov SV - looks pretty much like a Dragunov rifle should. Only the forearm looks little off. Shown at 26:04 in the video above. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]])
::::The Bambetov SV also uses a pistol grip instead of the normal skeleton/thumbhole stock that the Dragunov has. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 03:05, 21 June 2015 (EDT)Aidoru
I'm guessing that the Geist P3 is either the ubiquitous "wonder-nine" type pistol (Beretta 92, SIG Sauer P226, CZ-75 etc.) or FN Five-Seven equivalent of the game. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

== New gameplay footage ==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur6vhxVg6gE

Some footage of a semiauto shotgun, nonlethal variants of rifles introduced, and RAWKETTO PUNCH
--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 23:52, 6 July 2015 (EDT)Aidoru
[[File:UN rifle nonlethal MGSV TPP.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I guess nonlethal guns ingame are marked blue. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 00:48, 7 July 2015 (EDT)Aidoru
:I think the 7.62mm "UN-AUTOMATIC" was lethal? It might be customization options.

:There's a UN-AAM that looks like a PKM-M249 mashup but it's 5.56mm. KABARGA-83 shotgun looked more like an AEK or AMD rifle than a Saiga. Blackhawk has M134s side-mounted.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

IMO:
* UN ARC NL = FN FAL counterpart. Some SIG SG 542 elements. Blue barrel seems to designate a non-lethal round firing model.
* Kabarga-83 = Saiga-12 counterpart.
* UN-AAM = FN Minimi taking over Stoner 63 from Peace Walker. Takes cues from 1974 army trial version of FN Minimi. [[http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/FN-Minimi-1974-Army-improved.jpg]]
[[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 07:16, 7 July 2015 (EDT)
:I think the UN ARC is the rifle that the XOF troops carry
[[File:MGS5SIGrifle2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 20:30, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

==Sz.-336==

Doesn't anyone else think that the Sz.-336 in the game is actually a [[Steyr MPi 81]] (albeit with a Skorpion stock)? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] ([[User talk:MoviePropMaster2008|talk]]) 03:10, 22 June 2015 (EDT)
:It's more likely that they took various Cold War submachine guns and mashed them together. The Sz.-336 has a sidemounted charging handle, and the ejection port is placed a bit closer to the grip than the MPi 69/81, and the grip itself has thicker serrations. I can definitely see the resemblance though.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 03:24, 22 June 2015 (EDT)

It mostly resembles the Alka M-93: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/349029039847211948/ ([[User talk:SaberKitsune|talk]])

==Gamescom 2015 screenshots==

http://imgur.com/a/wxpiE
I can see one new weapon--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 19:39, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
:Which one? All the weapons in these pictures we've seen before. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 16:35, 04 August 2015 (GMT)
::That orange rifle that looks like the AM-68 but using the 7.62mm magazine from the UN ARC rifle, painted orange.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 13:16, 4 August 2015 (EDT)

==Weapons/Items info-graphic==
Found this info-graphic on [https://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/comments/3gbxzh/mgsv_spoilers_updated_infographics_about_the/| Reddit] that shows all known weapons and item descriptions, might be of interest to some people.
[[File:MSG5-WeaponList-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 20:10, 28 August 2015 (GMT)
:I found some weapon icons here.

http://www.gosunoob.com/metal-gear-solid-5/best-weapons-in-mgsv/

And you can find text lists of all weapons around the web. Looks like a lot less weapons than what was in Peace Walker.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== Weapon model viewer ==

So TPP allows you to view the weapon models in the loadout scene. I can't get it to zoom in so it's less helpful with pistols, but for others I'd recommend taking screens of the unmodified base weapon and replacing some of those pixelated shots on the page.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
::I think you have to unlock MB's weapons development menus for the more in depth weapon viewer.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 20:37, 1 September 2015 (EDT)
:::https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTT7FvYqdtE Apparently to get the weapon customization/weapon viewer with zoom in/out modes, you have to complete a certain set of missions in Africa.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 23:35, 2 September 2015 (EDT)

== The lack of real guns ==

So does anyone really know why MGS V all the suddenly dropped the use of real fireamrs for frankenguns? Does it have to do with Konami being wankers and not willing to drop money on weapon licensing or some other reason(s)?

Any form of media that get guns (mostly) right like MGS does is always fun but to see the last (real) MGS not having any of it is just sad :'( --[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 19:04, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
:I don't think Kojima has said anything officially, but my guess is it's a mix between not wanting to spend a bunch on weapon licenses, and the fact that the story of this game is strongly anti war, and weapons manufacturers might not want their firearms associated with it as, well, they are technically weapons of war. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 00:20, 03 September 2015 (GMT)
::Well, I've been shrugging all the equipment off as fantasy world that the 80s wished they got. I mean, weapon mounted lights on long guns and pistols and electronic optics...in 1984...The I-Droid is in particular a funny piece of tech that doesn't even belong in the future MGS4 that takes place in 2014. So yeah, I'm disappointed at how they couldn't do real weapons but it doesn't deter a good game so far [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:38, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
::Game developers don't have to pay for using real weapon models in games, only for the names and logos of real weapon companies.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 23:25, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
:::Speaking of lights mounted on guns, that does remind me of a documentary i saw about some hostage crisis in the UK back in 90s (or maybe it was the late 80s?) These SAS guys where using MP5's and on top of them they had mounted these ridiculously large torches.
:::Anyway, it's to bad that gun porning was dropped but at least the in game guns are well designed.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:54, 3 September 2015 (EDT)
::::I assume you are talking about the Iranian Embassy Siege, which was actually even earlier in 1980. The torches are big C or D cell Maglite style torches (Kel-Lites I believe but not sure), which were still relatively new at the time. The mounts seen during the siege were kind of a bodge job where they were fixed on to the standard MP5 clam mount, but later on they started using a bracket which replaced the handguard so the torch was more out of the way under the barrel. Even with the torch on the scope mount you could still aim with the irons as these looked through the bottom of the mount, however the SAS only really used point shooting with their MP5s for this sort of range (particularly as they were wearing respirators making it hard to actually look through the sights anyway). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:29, 3 September 2015 (EDT)
::::At least I can mash together a frankenAK and a frankenSig/FAL like a not fugly version of Army of Two: 40th Day--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 00:58, 4 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::Either way, that torch on the MP5 looked ridicules.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 10:01, 4 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::[[Image:Tacticol Shootgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
::::::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:20, 8 September 2015 (EDT)
I have a feeling the reason was for the R&D trees and part commonality; if they can design the guns so the parts are scaled to one another, it makes it easier to swap them between weapons without it looking weird or parts physically not fitting on guns (the worst in the actual game is putting some of the ARC stocks on the SVG blocks access to the upper receiver release button and would prevent it from being removed with the stock attached). That and if the guns are fictional you can come up with upgrade steps for them that look like upgrades rather than Peace Walker having to present things like helicopter-mounted M60s as upgrades to normal ones. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:08, 8 September 2015 (EDT)
:That might also be the reason why all the calibers are simplified so much from previous games. Like how 5.56mm is used for both Western and Soviet weapons, and how 7.62 is just 7.62, instead of being x51, x54r, x39, etc. Contrast that to 4, where 90% of Drebins shop was taken up by different ammo types.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 21:21, 9 September 2015 (EDT)

== You guys realized this by now I hope? ==

WU is built on HK P7. look at the top of the slide, ejection port, and striker firing mechanism in game. It's pretty obvious in fps view, they just used a generic-looking very smooth grip instead of the squeeze safety ones, and added more flair to front of barrel Slide*. [[User:Pepper|Pepper]] ([[User talk:Pepper|talk]]) 22:54, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
:I'm afraid I have to say that I can't really see it. http://www.vgblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/MetalGearSolidV_ThePhantomPain_CollectorsEdition_GoldPistol.jpg [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
::That's a custom variant with the front end of an AMT automag. if you look at the slide in first person, it is extremely obvious that the slide is built around a P7. also the target sights are spot on for the P7's target sights you could buy for it. Here's some first-person shots from in game.
[http://i.imgur.com/5X2ZWO5.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5X2ZWO5.jpg - Note the thin cuts in the blocky slide protrusion, only weapon I know of that has these and is striker fired is the P7]
[http://i.imgur.com/MC0RCab.jpg http://i.imgur.com/MC0RCab.jpg - Note the absense of a hammer, and the circular inlay, almost spot on to the p7's safety dot, which is red when gun is live, and white when safe.]

I'm not saying it doesn't have influence of other guns as well, it's just I've 3D modeled enough frankenguns and also high detail P7's myself from references to spot the obvious influence. [[User:Pepper|Pepper]] ([[User talk:Pepper|talk]]) 20:39, 4 September 2015 (EDT)

:TBH I really don;t see the resemblance to a P7 either. Firstly, as for the sights, what brand of sights do you think it looks like? There were no factory target sights for the P7 series and the only aftermarket ones that i can find (e.g. LPA and MMC) look nothing like this. These sights look more like they are originally built into the slide rather than a drop in replacement, kind of like the sights of a Colt Gold Cup National Match. As for the general shape of it, there is absolutely no similarity in the frame so that is a write-off in terms of the P7 argument. On to the slide, to start with it bulges out at the bottom for the slide rails in a way that the P7 doesn't, and it also doesn't have the rounded top like the P7 slide does. If you compare pictures from the back, I really don't think you can argue that [[http://i.imgur.com/MC0RCab.jpg this]] and [[http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/-GuNuT-/HK/DSCN0433.jpg this]] are obviously the same gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:30, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

:I get that it's hard to spot from a technical point of view, yes, they very closely resemble the LPA sights made for the P7 M series guns. from an artistic point of view, it's obvious they used a longslide competition modded P7M8 as a starting point and made cuts into the slide, used a beveled angle top instead of rounded, and made it's slide movement almost similar to the desert eagle's shape (front stays in place while the back edge and lower front lips slide over it) and also a pistol grip more at home on an AEK-971. The key thing is that they were modeling for third person. I know that every MGS game since 2 has had an aiming functionality, but the first person models have always lacked detail compared to the capabilities of a PS2/3 (polycount on first person models in games with view and world models is typically 5-25x higher, mgs2 on the other hand had almost the same polycount, usp in first person is less than 100 extra vertices compared to in world/third person model, only change is really in detail of light under the barrel and the weapon's hammer) (MGS4 for example, uses a LOD system with 4-5 levels for each gun. level 0 is first person. level 1 is third person/very close npc. level 2 is npc somewhat close. level 3 is npc farther, etc. the difference from level 0 to level 1 is less than 500-800 triangles for almost all weapons, which for weapons that are around 3000-8000 triangles at LOD 0 is not that much, it's basically detailed sights and firing selectors/etc. even the p90 with it's impressive ammo spending ammunition happens in both third and first person, where any sane fps developer wouldn't even do that in first person) All the guns were designed with third person visual flare in mind. That's why the silhouette of many guns in first person feels somewhat natural, but in third person they seem like obvious amalgamations of many designs, or outright strange. I know it technically doesn't pass the muster, but the starting point for alot of the guns is obvious to me. Tokyo Marui started the build based on the looks of one of their competitor's products, the MGC P7M13. [http://img01.militaryblog.jp/usr/toyguncatalog/P7M13_SC-6s.JPG This right here.] [[User:Pepper|Pepper]] ([[User talk:Pepper|talk]]) 13:17, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

== Weapon stances ==
Okay, so far I've only done the hospital so far and I continually noticed how the PMC Assassin guys are handling their SMGs and firing them sideways. Is there some kind of benefit they are gaining by firing it like that or what? I've noticed several shows/games doing this now (Falling Skies Season 5) where the weapon is intentionally held sideways. Now I could understand if the shooter was in a rush to fire the weapon but here the soldiers intentionally use this method. Anyone else feel the same? [[User:Majorcamo|Majorcamo]] ([[User talk:Majorcamo|talk]]) 23:19, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
* It's so the brass doesn't hit the guy next to you, or ricochets off the wall into your clothes. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 23:38, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPxb9PAVZzw Well, apparently this is the reason. Take the legitimacy of that as you will, but it makes sense.] [[User:Zigzag338|Zigzag338]] ([[User talk:Zigzag338|talk]]) 14:41, 29 October 2015 (EDT)

== AK Template ==

I felt the page had become too focused on the weapons' context in the game world instead of the real world. A lot of these guns are clearly inspired by very common real-world counterparts and the point of these pages are to help inform people either what games their favourite guns can be used in, or what real-life guns make up the content for their favourite game. And I think no fan of, say, the Glock 18 is going to care if the details got a bit mangled when the overall silhouette and action of the gun is fundamentally the same.

To that end I've redone the SVG entries as AK entries as an example of what I think the gun entries should be like. There's also a lot of text talking about brief glimpses of guns in trailer and pixelly shots that need to be cleared out anyway. I think the weapon entry should be named after the gun it's most similar to, with follow-up pics of other guns if there are readily identifiable chunks of the gun model that clearly belong to another gun. General errors with the models that are down to the devs not having a clue as to the internal workings of a receiver shouldn't have time wasted on them trying to source tenuous real-life counterparts for every single nut and bolt of the gun.

There's the issue of their being multiple versions for each gun. I think if there's one version of the gun that's closest to a real-life one, and the other versions are just the same gun with random parts swapped out (AKS-74 vs AK-74) the other entries should be folded into that one. Let me know what you think.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== More weapons ==

So recently I just reached Africa and the "American supplied emplaced weapon" looks like an M2. Also the Hind/Havoc mashup and BTR-80 based vehicles look like they are equipped with 2A42 based guns and the ZU-23-2 based AA with 2A14 based guns. I'll try to get some pictures of them up along with some of the weapon variants when I unlock them. Also the PKM based gun also looke like it has some elements of the RPD (sorta like the hybrid one in RE6). [[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 07:27, 4 September 2015 (EDT)

== Weapon Names ==
I thought it was a rule that the weapons on the page be named as their real counterparts? [[User:Majorcamo|Majorcamo]] ([[User talk:Majorcamo|talk]]) 23:27, 7 September 2015 (EDT)
:Seeing as how each gun takes parts from a multitude of other guns, its easier to just label it the in game name, and talk about the real life counterparts in the description--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 23:59, 7 September 2015 (EDT)
::If a gun is a renamed version of a real gun or is a real gun with minor modelling tweaks, then yes, it should be listed under the name of the real firearm. However in the case of guns like the majority here where they are amalgams of different designs (or are not really based on any one design at all) the convention is to list them by the fictional name. However, in order to stop confusion the name should be in quotation marks, e.g. "WU Silent Pistol", in order to make it clear which names are real firearms and which are fictional in-game names. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:55, 8 September 2015 (EDT)
:::Yes, this. Also, could we not crop the screenshots, please? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:23, 8 September 2015 (EDT)

== Weapon customisation no-go ==

Saw this in the Bambetov section:

[[File:Mgsv_tpp_custom_Bambetov_sv.jpg|thumb|none|600px|It is possible to create a Mk. 14 EBR using a Bambetov SV receiver from the in-game customization menu.]]

I really don't think we should be adding custom guns. If you haven't got that far, about half way through the game you can unlock the ability to customize guns, which involves being able to swap out parts for parts from any other gun in the game. That includes sticking ridiculous sniper front-ends on tiny guns. Just because you can smoosh some random parts together to form the silhouette of another gun doesn't mean it's actually represented in the game.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:It's what's happening at the Payday 2 page so why not here?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 07:38, 9 September 2015 (EDT)
::As long as it's not actually listed as an Mk 14 EBR it's ok to use it as an illustration of the customisation things. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:47, 9 September 2015 (EDT)
:::I think the difference with the Payday 2 customisation and the customisation here is that in Payday 2 the customisation items are unique to the weapons where as here all you are doing is taking items from one of the weapons and adding it to another. Aka, starting with the MRS-4, having it with a SVG-76 barrel and a Bambetov stock, so all weapons have the same customisation options rather than each having their own unique attachments as in Payday 2, so all I think is needed, is a line saying something along the lines of "Once you unlock the 'Legendary Gunsmith' you can customize your weapons by interchanging barrels, stocks, sights and attachments, between weapons". --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 14:00, 09 September 2015 (GMT)
::::I'm writing an overview section like the one for Peace Walker to explain things like that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:15, 9 September 2015 (EDT)

[[File:Mgsvwtf.jpg|none|500px|thumb|URAGAN-5 in the game's customization menu, showing the most extreme options possible. It's a miracle that this thing can fire, let alone not fall apart. The barrel and the stock clip into the gun, and there's nothing to hold the cylinder in place. In fact, the barrel isn't even lined up with any of the chambers!!!]]

Also this Uragan-5 is either hacked or glitched, the level 3 Uragan-5 doesn't have any custom options at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:17, 9 September 2015 (EDT)

It's glitched. If you look at this: http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/309520781/what-did-he-mean-by-this you can see some of the results of this glitch. [[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 21:21, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
:404'd. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:32, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

Speaking of weapon customization/upgrades, I'm saddened that they could fit in a multi barrel GP-25, but not an upgrade for the Rasp that turns it into a Chiappa Triple Threat style shotgun.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 20:34, 17 September 2015 (EDT)

== SVG-76 ==

The receiver and the pistol grip of the SVG-76 and the SVG-76U resemble the ones from SA vz. 58P and the SA vz. 58V, respectively. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 23:13, 10 September 2015 (EDT)

== Mateba ==
I think Revolver Ocelot's sidearm looks a lot more like the 2006M than the Unica 6.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 08:57, 12 September 2015 (EDT)
:They're actually just Uragan-5s with long barrels, as far as I can tell the GZ snub version doesn't even exist in TPP. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:53, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

== Geist P3 ==
Is it just me, or is the frame of the P3 heavily reminiscent of a Springfield XD, minus grip safety?--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 02:19, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

:It's got parts from others also, the fps-view of the slide shows it's also very influenced by other polymer framed pistols, like the Steyr M9.[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] ([[User talk:Pepper|talk]]) 09:12, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

::Is it the Geist that gets used by the Cypriot doctor when Quiet garrotes him in the intro? It looked like a separate handbag-pistol the player never gets to use.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

:::I was thinking it was the Geist too, but the Geist has a normal guide-rod-on-bottom-barrel-on-top configuration, whereas the Doctors handgun is more of a S&W Escort style configuration as seen in Taxi Driver.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 18:44, 16 September 2015 (EDT)
[[File:Taxi-swes1.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

== Unusable bipods? ==

JOOC, are the bipods on the automatic rifles and light machine guns usable or are they just aesthetic? Because it's slightly unusual to replace the bipod with a vertical foregrip since the former can be used to deploy the gun and provide suppressing fire from a fixed prone position like in Battlefield, which is a more realistic tactic used by squad support gunners in real-life. [[User:MJ79|MJ79]] ([[User talk:MJ79|talk]]) 16:50, 13 September 2015 (EDT)
:Pretty sure they're just cosmetic.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 23:27, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

== AM D114 Pistol ==

Am I the only that sees model wise it has more in common with a CZ 75 style pistol than a 1911? Especially the slide running along the inside of the frame design. At most I think it should have a mention and add the EAA Witness pic. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 17:00, 13 September 2015 (EDT)
[[File:MSG5-AM114-2.jpg|none|400px|thumb|The AM D114 Pistol as it appears in The Phantom Pain. Lv 1.]]
[[Image:Cz75.jpg|thumb|none|400px|"Pre-B" CZ 75 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:EAA-Witness-Full-Size.jpg|thumb|none|400px|EAA Witness Steel Full Size (with early production slide) - 9x19mm]]

== Ocelot's Revolvers ==

I don't know why the article insists that they're URAGAN-5s, they're obviously not chambered in 12 gauge, but what looks like a regular revolver cartridge (Given that it's Ocelot, I'm guessing .45 Long Colt), and the only reason they look alike is because they both fire from the six o' clock position --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 11:38, 14 September 2015 (EDT)
:They're both break action, and they're both pretty much identical in terms of aesthetics. Maybe they're a variant of the URAGAN unique to Ocelot.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 11:54, 14 September 2015 (EDT)
::Also, if they're not supposed to be Uragans, why is Ocelot carrying a bandolier of shotgun cartridges? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 19:49, 14 September 2015 (EDT)
:::Closer inspection on the images of Quiet and Ocelot show that their piece has a front sight with a much smaller profile, a barrel flush with the top of the frame, and the cylinder is identical in shape to the Chiappa Rhino. I think the revolver can stay under classification as a hybrid of the 2006M and Rhino, but it'd definitely not supposed to be the Urugan.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:29, 14 September 2015 (EDT)
::::Eh, it's a variation on the same model, probably just fiddling so it fit in Ocelot's holsters properly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 01:25, 15 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::Plus, if you take a look at the hammer and grip, they match up with the URAGAN's pretty much 1 to 1.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 02:24, 15 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::Well, in that case it would make more sense for Ocelot to be brandishing the Windurger S333 which fires actual revolver cartridges.-[[User:MJ79|MJ79]] ([[User talk:MJ79|talk]]) 14:34, 15 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, it's weird he'd be packing a pair of scaled-down wrist-breaking machines rather than normal revolvers, maybe they just came up with Ocelot's model before the S333 model, given it isn't in Ground Zeroes and all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:23, 15 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::::Maybe the URAGAN is in the vain of the [[Taurus Judge]] and was originally going to be able to load both Shotgun shells and standard pistol rounds, would explain why Ocelot is carrying both on his person, --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 21:46, 15 September 2015 (GMT)
:::::::::Yeah, whereas in the final game it's a 12 gauge, meaning it would be impossible to run out of ammunition for it since nobody who fired it would ever want to do so again. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:48, 15 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::::::New MG:O video seems to think that Ocelot's sidearms are, at least, [https://youtu.be/20aMKCGVVMo?t=10m a model from the URAGAN family tree with the same frame], called TORNADO-6. It's most likely chambered in a different caliber then the URAGAN-5, due to a capacity that is more then enough to kill anything that moves, and the ability to use Ocelot's signature ricochet shots. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 05:43, 18 September 2015 (EDT)

== AM MRS-4LS ==

I think the AM MRS-4LS isn't only inspired by the C7A1 LSW/Model 950 LMG but more of a hybrid of the Stoner 63 and Ultimax 100 too, making it a combination of three different firearms into one. The lack of the carrying handle and the fact that it has a foregrip when upgraded, the shape of the box magazine and especially the stock/butt makes it look more like the Ultimax and Stoner 63. What do you think?
:Um...
:[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Diemaco C7 LSW/Colt Model 750 LMG with Beta-C drum magazine - 5.56x45mm]]
:For the foregrip (which is an AR15 grip), the magazine is a C-Mag as with the one above while the Ultimax uses a single-drum and the MG version of the Stoner 63 uses a belt box, and the stock is a synthetic version of an RPK stock.
:[[Image:Rpk 01 drum.jpg|thumb|none|500px|RPK light machine gun with 75-round drum magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
:[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:39, 16 September 2015 (EDT)
::Seeing as how it is just a AM MRS-4R with the handgaurd and stock changed, then if any argument is to be made it is that it is based on the same thing that the AM MRS-4R is based on. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 14:02, 16 September 2015 (EDT)

[[File:Tppcoltmg.jpg]]

Still looks like the Ultimax in terms of configuration to me, without the carrying handle of Ultimax.

[[File:Ultimax-100-Mk2-SAW.jpg]]

:But there are no meaningful differences between that configuration and the C7 LSW, which also has a foregrip, actually has the correct drum magazine, and also has a carry handle. The front sight is a filled in AR15 front sight with the top hole completely gone and a small depression where the bottom one should be, and the gas regulator sticking out is closer to the FN FAL than the Ultimax. Hell, if you're that vague you could argue it's a tommy gun, or that the ''Ultimax'' is a tommy gun for that matter. :s [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:05, 17 September 2015 (EDT)

::Also, it may be worth mentioning that the upgraded handguard is extremely similar to the SPAS-12 heatshield, it even has the same holes on top of it. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 03:10, 18 September 2015 (EDT)

:::It's more like the three-hole FN FAL handguard squared off with a really big rail on the side.
:::[[Image:Imbel_MD_97.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Imbel MD 97 - 5.56x45mm]]
:::[[Image:SC-2010.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SC-2010 HPMWS with RIS foregrip and M68 Aimpoint red dot scope - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
:::Looks like they got a ref image like the second one and mistook the thickness of the rail covers for the thickness of the rails themselves. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:14, 18 September 2015 (EDT)

== Skull Face's lever-action piece ==

I think Skull Face's lever-action gun should be classified in the rifles or other category instead of the shotguns category since it's based more on a rifle than a shotgun. --[[User:MJ79|MJ79]] ([[User talk:MJ79|talk]]) 15:01, 16 September 2015 (EDT)
:Agreed, you see in the cutscene where Big Boss uses it that it is not a shotgun, it appears to be chambered in .45, if the game allows you to replay cutscenes I'll try to get a cap of it. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 21:22, 16 September 2015 (GMT)
::Um, it is under rifles. Was "assault rifles" but the UN-ARC is a battle rifle and his Mare's Leg isn't really either, so I've just changed the heading to "rifles." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 18:05, 16 September 2015 (EDT)

== Bambetov design's influence ==

Since it's based of the receiver of this game's equivalent of the AK and has the magazine directly in front of the trigger wouldn't it be based on the FPK, rather than the Dragunov? --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 23:24, 21 September 2015 (EDT)

:I was kinda thinking that. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 19:24, 24 September 2015 (EDT)

== Um... ==

[[File:Tppfn5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AM MRS-4 as it appears in The Phantom Pain. Lvls 1-5.]]

Why does this one have the level 5 version at the top and bottom? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:46, 23 September 2015 (EDT)
:Wut [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 19:23, 24 September 2015 (EDT)

== Geist P3, part deux ==

The description of the gun is wrong, is not semi then fully automatic, it's originally full auto and then it's modified to fire in three-round bursts. In case you're wondering how a burst fire mode is an "upgrade" in comparasion to full auto, the thing has so much recoil in full auto is worthless at anything else than point blank, and at that range you as may well use CQC. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 18:37, 25 September 2015 (EDT)

== Ze'ev ==

I was browsing Wikipedia the other day, and I found a weapon that reminds me a lot of the overall shape of the front of the Ze'ev, specially the weirdly positioned cocking handle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FB_Glauberyt
I don't know, what do you guys think? --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 01:16, 3 October 2015 (EDT)
:The sights, and the overall shape of the lower receiver is pretty close to my eyes too. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 02:21, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

== SVG series= Shouldn't it realistically be AG-76 or AVG-76? ==

Playing MGS V quite a bit, and developing the SVG/LPG weapon lines, I couldn't help but notice their naming makes no logical sense.

Shouldn't the SVG-76 realistically be named the AG-76? The Russian in game is phonetically accurate, as is their behavior and mannerisms, so it stands to reason they're pretty much identical to the real life Soviet Army at that time, but their weapon naming doesn't follow traditional Soviet/Russian conventions. The AK-74, their standard rifle at the time and what the SVG-76 is named after, is named as such because it stands for "Kalashnikov Assault Rifle model 1974", or in Russian "Avtomat Kalashnikov 1974". Since Gryzov is the manufacturer here, it logically should be "Avtomat Gryzov 1976" or AG-76. What SVG stands for in game isn't revealed, but its very similar to SVD, which stands for Dragunov Sniper System, so is SVG meant to be Gryzov Sniper System? I added this to the SVG-76 article, but was curious what others thought before (assuming its ok) adding that tidbit in the SVG-76U and SVG-67. [[User:Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk:Antediluvial|talk]]) 23:22, 3 October 2015 (EDT)
:If it's based on SKS rather than SVD it ''could'' be Samozaryadnyj Vintovka sistemy Gryzova, which unless I'm very much mistaken would be "self-loading rifle of (the) Gryzov system." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 23:59, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

::Logically that makes sense, but since the SKS was developed at a time when self-loading rifles were fairly rare (around 1946) and assault rifles had yet to truly catch on in military service, it was given a "self-loading rifle" designation, since to my knowledge that concept was fairly novel to the Soviets at the time for the most part who used a bolt-action rifle as their service weapon during the war. Since the AK47 that succeeded it was automatic, it was designated an "avtomat", hence the AK designation. Post WW2, it wouldn't make much sense to designate an automatic weapon "a self-loading rifle", as most rifles after that became in some way self-loading (either semi-automatic or automatic) and usually the designation would apply to a semi-automatic weapon like an M1 or an SKS. That's just my two cents, but its entirely possible I may be wrong. The SVG designation would make sense if it were instead AVG (Avtomat Vintovka Gryzov or Automatic Rifle Gryzov) or AG like AK, but SVG seems to suggest it's the descendant of an SKS like rifle. [[User:Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk:Antediluvial|talk]]) 01:07, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

:::Actually thinking about it, they probably just took the SVT designation from the SVT-40 and substituted Gryzov for Tokarev. I suppose that could imply it uses a gas system designed for a semi-auto full-size rifle, or they didn't consider it being automatic worth changing their naming scheme for infantry rifles or something. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 01:19, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

::::That's as good an explanation as any, appreciate it. I can't help but wonder though about the SVG-67. If its meant to be an AK-47 clone, and indeed is supposed to imply the Soviets took until 1967 to issue a service rifle, how does it explain an AK-47 appearing in 1964 in Metal Gear Solid 3? Was that rifle meant to be a prototype to the SVG-67? Or is the SVG-67 just an offshoot of the SVG-76, like an AK-103 or 104? Doesn't seem to make much sense for the Soviets to issue a service rifle than phase it out a mere 9 years later (the AKM lasted for 15 years until it was replaced, going into service in 1959 and officially being phased out for the AK-74 in 1974). I'm overthinking this I know, but Metal Gear has always been known for its amazing attention to firearms and their realism (TPP's frankenguns notwithstanding), and this just bothers me a bit. [[User:Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk:Antediluvial|talk]]) 04:18, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

:::::Yeah, the whole changeover to frankenguns doesn't really make a lot of sense, I think the only way to rationalise it would be that V takes place in some parallel dimension where none of the guns that appeared in the other games ever existed. Or as I've said elsewhere, that the whole thing is a GRIM and DARK fanfic about Big Boss that Huey wrote after drinking too much <s>Mountain Dew</s> Lime Soda, which explains a surprisingly large number of things. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:27, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

::::::Or its like Black Ops 1: Venom's horrific brain damage (guys got a shrapnel horn sticking out of his head, that can't be pretty internally) makes him perceive guns wrong, and gives them weird names and shapes, and they're supposed to actually be real guns (kind of how like Mason's brainwashing made him remember using guns like FAMASes and AK47s with flamethrowers in 1968). [[User:Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk:Antediluvial|talk]]) 04:57, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

:::::::I think I like mine because it also explains some of the more bizarre plot points and retcons. Also I think "suicide metal gear" is an idea only Huey could either come up with or support :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:11, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

==Who unloads a perfectly loaded gun and then loads it again?==

So in the hospital scene where we get the pistol, Ishmael picks up the gun, locks the slide back and they even animated a live round flying out and gives it to you to chamber a new round...that just bothers me from a gun handling point of view. If I were to pick up a gun on the battlefield, I'd at least check to see if it was loaded, so yes a brass check is good and then checking the magazine, but I wouldn't unload it completely, wasting a round [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:46, 4 October 2015 (EDT)
:I remember once watching a video about the UMP-45 (this is IRL) and before he hands the gun to another dude, he enables the safety, removes the mag and then hands it to another guy. So i guess that it's some form of safety procedure, but im not sure.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 11:41, 4 October 2015 (EDT)
::It's the fastest way to make sure the gun is both loaded and the chamber is clear (not jammed), and as Big Boss is missing a hand "Ishmael" just does it for him. I dunno about you but every time someone hands me a firearm, I eject the mag and clear the chamber to check it, just makes sense to me, especially if you don't know how well the person you are taking it from takes care of it, I'm with you about the wasting the round in the pipe tho, although I guess in the heat of combat your not gonna worry about that 1 extra round. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 19:14, 04 October 2015 (GMT)
:::In the military (British anyway), the first thing you do when you find a weapon is to apply the safety, drop the mag and clear and check the chamber. Similarly, if you want to hand a weapon to somebody the correct way to do it is to perform what is called an NSP (Normal Safety Procedure) whereby you apply the safety, fully unload the weapon, and lock the bolt/slide to the rear so you can display to the person you are handing it to that it is safe and unloaded. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 14:56, 4 October 2015 (EDT)
::::Yeah SOP for British Military and Police is to always clear your weapon fully and have someone else also check it's clear and verbally confirm, even if you are not handing the weapon over. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 21:02, 04 October 2015 (GMT)
I understand "range rules". Yes, before you hand a gun to someone for them to use or handle, you clear it...if you're practicing in a controlled environment like the range, but this is the battlefield! You're in combat right now and you picked up an enemy weapon and passed it to your buddy so he can fight...why the hell would you eject a live round that can be useful instead of just brass checking the weapon. Hell, in The Last of Us, Ellie took a bolt action rifle from an enemy to hold him at gun point and they actually animate her brass checking the weapon to make sure it was loaded...not ejecting the currently chambered round out to load the next one. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:49, 5 October 2015 (EDT)
:If he's drilled enough, that will simply be the series of actions he performs as part of handing a gun to someone unless he's actively thinking about not doing them. Besides, not having your semi-functional friend who's moving around because of drugs shoot you with the chambered round if he fumbles and hits the trigger is probably a sensible strategy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 22:03, 5 October 2015 (EDT)
:And yet, in that scene, he hands you the unloaded gun, almost immediately you drop the slide forward, chambering it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 07:53, 6 October 2015 (EDT)
::Yeah, but I'm not sure giving him the gun a few seconds sooner is worth risking him accidentally shooting you while you're handing it to him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:08, 6 October 2015 (EDT)
:::If you where straight in combat (Actually under fire) and you grabbed an enemy weapon, first thing you do is rack the slide to eject whatever round is in there, as far as you're concerned that's a dud round, that's weapon capture 101, but if you've got the few seconds spare, you better believe you're gonna want to fully check the weapon, and as to your Ellie reference she was trained mostly by someone who knew ammo was a scarce commodity. "Ishmael" is clearly military trained, so he's gonna use military methods when handling weapons. Think about it, how stupid would you feel if you brass checked the weapon, leaving the round in, only for it to malfunction, or mis fire, or even if it fires, what if when you empty the magazine and when you come to reload the mag release is faulty so you're left with nothing but a real nice paperweight in your hands?!? You never know how the person before you took care of the weapon, I once had a friend who had to manually rack the slide of his Glock for every shot because he never took it apart to clean it, so every time he fired it would stovepipe. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 14:43, 06 October 2015 (GMT)
::::Considering the general tacticoolness of the MGS games (something im a fan of, really liked how Snake checked every weapon he got in MGS4) im not surprised they included that little scene.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:35, 6 October 2015 (EDT)
::Yes, I remember a buddy of mine told me in the Marine corp, they sometimes teach you when you take a gun off the enemy, you rack the slide but that's during the disarming process because as said before, you don't know how your enemy carried the gun. But after more training, the same buddy also told me, if he had time and opportunity to do a battlefield pick up and not in combat, he'd just check the gun first to see if it was actually loaded and then decided whether or not he will unloaded it and make it safe. But remember the scene in the game where Ishmael picks up the gun, they guy he just killed was using it already, so the gun was clearly loaded. He had no practical reason to unload the gun, other for the flare of being cool to the audience and the player. It's the same kind of rack the slide before going into battle move that we see in a lot of fiction. I just saw an episode of Arrow where a character pulled his Glock out and checked the slide for a round (or he was chambering it)...weird considering it should have been ready to fight. Also this seems to be a thing in the later MGS series with Snake start in 4. In MGS4, every time you do a tac reload, you eject the live round...which kinda messes with the whole idea of topping off before resuming the fight. The only practical scene we see Snake do that is when he disarms Akiba and takes his rifle, racking the charging handle to ensure that the weapon was loaded. Then we see Big Boss Snake do that in Peacewalker...which he never does that in MGS3, which came before. Then he does that in MGS5. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:41, 7 October 2015 (EDT)
:::"Ishmael" never sees the guy he takes the weapon from fire it, so there is no guarantee that the weapon is in full working order, you could assume that it was, but you know what they say about assumptions. The only way to know, concrete, for certain the weapon is loaded and in full working order would be to field strip it and eyeball the firing pin, but bar that, ejecting the mag to check how full the magazine is while also checking the mag release, racking the slide to eject the round in the chamber (like i said always assume the round in the chamber is a dud), then reloading the weapon is the next best thing. You now know that magazine is full, the slide is not jammed, and once you empty the magazine you won't be left with a paperweight, all in the space of 3 seconds, and those 3 seconds could save your life. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 14:58, 08 October 2015 (GMT)

== MRS-4? ==

So the MRS-4 is based off the M4/CAR15/XM177E2 and FNC. I find it weird with the default stock that resembles the FNC's. Are there any other stocks that resemble the M4's? The closest one I can find so far is that of the RGL-220.
: It shares nothing in common with the M4/M16 series, aside from being a self loading 5.56x45mm rifle of presumably American origin.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 18:52, 7 October 2015 (EDT)

== MRS-4? ==

So the MRS-4 is based off the M4/CAR15/XM177E2 and FNC. I find it weird with the default stock that resembles the FNC's. Are there any other stocks that resemble the M4's? The closest one I can find so far is that of the RGL-220.

== Vortex type ammo? ==

Since i haven't gotten around to play this yet, there is something i wonder. Can you use some type of vortex ammo (or similar less-lethal) for shotguns in this game, like in MGS4?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:50, 21 October 2015 (EDT)
:Yes, you get non lethal Shotguns. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 23:00, 21 Month 2015 (GMT)
::Good to know, thanks!--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:03, 21 October 2015 (EDT)
:::You don't have selectable ammo types, you have to develop a different weapon like in Peace Walker. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:45, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
::::But can every shotgun in the game be developed into a less-lethal variant?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 07:43, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
::::No, IIRC just the sawn-off, twin barrel and S1000. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:58, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
:::::Alright--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:39, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
::::::I remember seeing a stun version of the Bullhorn SG in MGO--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 19:46, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Oh, it wasn't in single when I played, either it's MGO exclusive or they added some stuff. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 20:50, 22 October 2015 (EDT)

== First-person Screenshots ==

I found a video with all the weapons and equipment in in HD on YouTube. The video shows each weapon at different levels and the iron sights in first-person view. Can someone help me sift through the video and take screenshots of all the weapons in first-person view? It's over an hour and a half long. Each weapon can be found on a time stamp listed on the video's description.
https://youtu.be/dhlG_lDdbe4
[[User:Swordimpulse07|Swordimpulse07]] ([[User talk:Swordimpulse07|talk]]) 16:46, 03 November 2015 (PST)
:Can you just screenshot a video and put them up here? Have you made the video?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 08:33, 4 November 2015 (EST)

Talk:Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

2015-09-18T09:43:15Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Ocelot's Revolvers */

== The game's frankenguns and their counterparts from previous games ==

WU Silent Pistol = Mk. 22 + Ruger Mk. III (MGS4)

AM D114 Pistol = Colt M1911A1

Burkov = Makarov PM

Windurger S333 = Smith & Wesson Model 19 (PW)

Sz.-336 = Vz. 61

Maschinen Taktische Pistole 5 = MP5A2

S1000 Shotgun = Ithaca M37

Rasp SBS = "Twin Barrel"

AM MSR-4 = M4A1 (MGS4) + Colt Model 653 (PW)

AM-69 = M16A1

SVG-76 = AK-47/RK-47 (PW)

Bambetov SV = SVD Dragunov

M2000-D = Remington 700 (PW)

FB R-Launcher = Carl Gustav M2 (PW)

'''Unknown:'''

URAGAN-5 = Unknown. New weapon?

== About the 'new' Frankenguns policy in MGS ==
(moved from [[Talk:Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes]])

This thing has been festering longer than people think. I just discovered that the Konami's Frankengunning of MGS has been in effect since 2012, beginning with Metal Gear Solid - Social Ops, a 3D mobile game that released exclusively in Japan for the iPhone and Android smartphones.

From MGS wiki as of November 5 2014:

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_Social_Ops#Behind_the_scenes

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_V_weapons_and_equipment#Behind_the_scenes

"MGS SOP" involves gameplay/re-enactment from the games Metal Gear Solid 3 - Snake Eater and Metal Gear Solid - Peace Walker. Social Ops was similar to the Metal Gear Acid series in terms of character movement and its use of items and weapons via trading cards.

For cards with rendered art (art not pulled straight from a game) - with few exceptions - the weapons are replaced with a counter-part from MGSV. For example, Old Snake from Metal Gear Solid 4 is seen holding a SVG-76 instead of a AK-102 or a AM-69 instead of a M4 Custom, and Peace Walker-era Snake is seen holding a AM-69 rather than a M16A1.

Also several newer promotional renders, along with several older ones (i.e. promotional images of Peace Walker) of previous games have had their previously real life weapons replaced with a Metal Gear Solid V equivalent.
For example - as stated previously; Big Boss with M16A1 from Peace Walker and Old Snake with M4 custom from MGS4 are now both shown holding AM Rifle Type 69 instead.
This is also seen on promotional images with The Legacy Collection that was released in Summer of 2013 worldwide. For example; In new HD render art of Solid Snake is seen with a Wu Silent Pistol in his holster instead of a Mk23 SOCOM.

The reasons for the changes are yet to be stated. It's claimed that Konami had gotten in legal problems with gun licencing for exploiting loopholes via Airsoft company Tokyo Marui partnership. Therefore they cannot use designs patented by major weapons manufacturers and can only use non-conflicting designs provided by Tokyo Marui. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 12:49, 5 November 2014 (EST)

:As I said before, call bullshit that Konami couldn't get image rights to use real life guns or that the AK variant is copyrighted. Is Russia knocking on Konami's doors about the image? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:01, 5 November 2014 (EST)

::This is all getting pretty strange. How do you use an "airsoft loophole"? Claim that your ingame guns are just modelled after airsoft guns? Besides, wasn't there a court case that decided that "M4" is now a generic term (like "M1911") that can't be copyrighted/trademarked? Why can't Old Snake keep his, then? Did Konami face a major lawsuit? Or were licensing fees getting too expensive after Peace Walker? Or is Konami overreacting in some way? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 21:51, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Combination of gross overreaction and licensing expenses IMO. Though, it’s more likely that it’s MGS4’s – and not PW’s - gun licensing that came around to bite Konami in the ass.

If you ask me, '''''the whole thing could very well be connected to something in Japanese law that we might not know about.'''''

And yes, the “airsoft loophole” is ''"allegedly"'' a thing in Japan. It works by having some Airsoft manufacturer in sponsor-/partnership with the work in question, and if somebody starts blowing whistles they just can defend themselves by saying that they are promoting (Airsoft Manufacturer’s) product(s) and not actual firearm company's. (Ridiculous, I know.)

One of the most well-known exploiters of this has been Capcom’s Resident Evil/Bio Hazard. RE and Tokyo Marui have been connected since RE2, with partnership beginning since Capcom commissioned Tokyo Marui to release an Airsoft replicas of the in-game variations of the Desert Eagle wielded by Leon S. Kennedy. [[Resident Evil 5]] is good a good example of “the loophole” in full force. If you take a good look of the RE5 arsenal and are aware what’s in Tokyo Marui’s catalog around 2009, you’ll notice that all the '''non'''-franken-/heavily edited guns have Tokyo Marui counterparts – with some exceptions. Same deal with RE Relevations 1, notably featuring the Smith & Wesson 3566 under the guise of Tokyo Marui’s “PC356” replica of the aforementioned pistol. Although judging from RE6, the “all frankenguns policy” has affected RE as well. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 13:40, 11 November 2014 (EST)

:Then what about the gun designs that can't be copyrighted/trademarked, like the M4, the M1911, or AK-style rifles? It does speak of "overreaction" as well. And what's keeping Konami from paying the licensing fees again? I don't think they're in financial trouble like Capcom and Sega currently are.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:45, 27 November 2014 (EST)

==Unknown SMG==
Anybody know what these are?

[[File:MGS5Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:05, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:Considering all footage shown so far, showing relatively narrow arsenal assets, I'm willing to say pretty surely that it's the same MP9 as in Ground Zeroes. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:24, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

But whats the point of holding them sideways like that especially with the ejection port facing up.--[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 17:40, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:I assume however, it could be held sideways because they are so densely packed together, using it as a method of evading to shower their mates with hot brass. I'm puzzled as to why they are holding them ejection port upwards, but it could be some recoil controlling technique perhaps even a depiction of the C.A.R. technique. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 18:03, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::You are thinking about it too much, I would highly doubt that anyone involved in this decision has even heard of the CAR technique. My guess is that they are doing it because someone thinks it looks cool, particularly if you get to have the cases spraying upwards into the air showing off some nice physics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::I don't know about the guns, but the stuff on the soldiers backs seem to resemble the fuel canisters for the M2 Flamethrower or a similar flamethrower. What I do know is that whatever the make, the backpack is undeniably a flamethrower weapon. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:50, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think they are, more likely they are air tanks as they appear to be wearing breathing apparatus. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:39, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Found another gun image, it's from the last few seconds of the VGA trailer:
:::[[File:Pp12.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:::Don't know if its the same gun or a different gun, but still, hope I helped. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

The The Phantom Pain and Ground Zero is the same game. They've just announced that. So one of these pages has got to go [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:47, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:The last I read (earlier today) "Ground Zeroes" is the prologue to "The Phantom Pain" which taken together make up MGS5, but they would not confirm whether or not they were shipping it as one game or two separate ones. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::Well, I advocated patience and just waiting for official word earlier, I don't know why people are in such a rush. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:22, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Yeah, here's a bit of a problem, though: Konami told GameSpot that they are two separate games. Jay Boor, director of PR, stated they are two separate games, and the official MGS facebook page (which is owned by Konami and Kojima Productions) not only stated they were two different games, they even quoted Kojima's twitter on it. We keep them separate. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 20:46, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::If they truly are separate games, then why does the new trailer contain footage from BOTH teasers and titled it MGS5 The Phantom Pain? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::If I recall correctly, ''Peace Walker'' and ''Portable Ops'' also contained footage from ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' in their debut trailers, so I doubt it would mean much. Even if it did, it's likely that they are somewhat connected, but still separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::I don't ever remember they using footage from MGS3 to advertise that the final product will look like Portable Ops or Peacewalker. The recent trailer did not even state they were two separate games. It didn't say Ground Zeroes once, it only titled itself as MGS5 The Phantom Pain. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:58, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::Portable Ops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0NUg0DLMpQ
:::::::Peace Walker TGS2009 Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b5trPeM9wI
:::::::Both of these trailers showed footage from ''MGS3'', at least at the beginning of the trailer. And the trailer may not have stated they were two separate games, but Konami and other official sources stated they are. Heck, even Kojima stated that the sequence he showed in TPP was actually the tutorial at the beginning of a game, despite claiming that Ground Zeroes was the prologue. The only way to claim both to be true is if they are indeed separate games. And besides, Kojima also stated that both Rising and Peace Walker were Metal Gear Solid 5 in interviews, even though back then it was clear as day they were separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 23:16, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I am still holding out that it's all misdirection on part of the creator. It seems odd to market 2 games at the same time. Are both going to be released at the same time? in one box? a year apart? There's a lot of questions from a production standpoint [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:22, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::::And going back to the portable games trailers with MGS3 footage. Those were the Japanese trailers and the MGS3 footages serve as a jump off point. If you were to compare advertising like that to these games, it would be like watching a trailer of MGS5 starting off with a couple scenes from MGS4, 2 completely different games but obviously has connections to each other since they exist in the same universe. You can't argue because the portable games did it so it makes sense for the new MGS5 trailer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:26, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::::It's not odd at all that they'd market two completely different games at the same time. Heck, Lords of Shadows 2 actually marketed both the console game and the portable game at the exact same time in E3 2012, and Epic Mickey 2 also did the same with two games that were completely different. And misdirection or not, I sincerely doubt Kojima'd refer to the opening scene of TPP as being the tutorial to the game AFTER marketing it as the same as Ground Zeroes. You can't have a tutorial level after the main prologue of a game. Did we have that in the Plant Chapter of MGS2? Operation Snake Eater in MGS3? Any of the levels after Liquid Sun in MGS4? Any of the levels after the intro to Peace Walker? There is a way for games to be separate and the same at the exact same time though: Think Sonic 4. Separate releases, same game. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 12:07, 21 April 2013 (EDT)

==Gun wish list==
Here's some guns I hope will come for the game since Kojima confirmed The Phantom Pain will take place around 1984. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:52, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

The first is a Glock and not the Glock 18.
Galil

CZ75

UZI

ASP9

M14

AK74

FAL

Valmet series

Browning HP

VP70

Beretta 93R

SIG SG 540

XL64E5

FAMAS

More M16 variants

Daewoo K1 / K2

Mini-14

SA Vz.58

AR-18

Different AK variants

Guns that I personally predict would be useable: --[[User:Btgr|Btgr]] ([[User talk:Btgr|talk]]) 18:58, 6 July 2013 (EDT)

Makarov PM

Stetchkin APS

M1911A1

Any .357 Magnum revolver made by Smith & Wesson, Colt or Ruger

SPAS-12

Lee-Enfield

SKS

PPSh-41

Sterling SMG

BXP or Skorpion

AKS-74U

GP-25 (for the AK47 variant)

M203 (for the SAR-80)

FN MAG-58

PKM

RPG-7

M72 LAW

FIM-92 Stinger

RGD-5 or M67

Heckler & Koch G11

Railgun

==New Red band trailer==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gEqmkduIeMU

:Am the only one, but are there quite a lot of hybrid firearms on display here? Take a closer look at those AKs, both the 7.62 and 5.56 versions. AK-74 stand-ins have a ring sight mounted on the back of the receiver, and [http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/14607241/mgs5_phantom_pain.0_cinema_640.0.jpg 7.62 ones have a bizarre wooden front grip, AKS-74U patterned back sights along with a pretty western looking flash hider]. Now those are some jive-ass Kalashnikovs if I ever laid my very one eyes upon one. Is anyone a bit more versed as to why Kojima suddenly went for this bizarre change? --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:26, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

I'll admit it is unusual, but at least they look like they can exist unlike Resident Evil 6 where all guns seemed like frankenguns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:58, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

==Getting the feeling of anachronism ==
I wonder, with the recent trailer, a lot of the tech and gear are a bit anachronistic for the 80s like Skull face's men. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:19, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
:Dudes got a robot arm, I don't think historical accuracy is a big deal.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 20:49, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
::That's a BS argument. If that's the excuse, why not all guns be fictional and they start using halo plasma rifles and phasers? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Kojima has said that MGS takes place in an alternate time line from the real world, so there being anachronisms in weapons and technology really shouldn't matter all that much, I mean hell, Peace Walker had some weapons that weren't made until the 80's and I believe some that weren't made until the 90's, so it's a little late for the "This is anachronistic!" arguments.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 23:08, 24 September 2013 (EDT)
::::Kojima has confirmed that ''"Weapons will be based off of weapons found in the 1980's"''. --[[User:Btgr|Btgr]] ([[User talk:Btgr|talk]]) 04:31, 29 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::Let's hope they actually ARE real guns and not completely fictionalized guns, as Ground Zeroes is not giving me good hopes on that (like the WU gun). I mean, with Rising, its completely acceptable, since it took place well into the future of not only our time, but also in-universe. Considering games taking place both before and after MGSV (both GZ and TPP) used real life weaponry, going the Resident Evil route is jarring, especially considering the Fox Engine was meant to bring out more realism. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 09:49, 24 November 2013 (EST)
I can agree. The fact that MGS4 had so many well made real life models makes this whole deal very odd to me. Why would they have made these franken guns instead of the actual weapons in the 80's? [[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 23:56, 11 July 2014 (EDT)

== Single Action Army and other guns ==

Not much to go off but Ocelot's gun does not look like an SAA at all. It looks like some kind of top breaker. Do you think the guns in this one are going to be generic instead of actual models like they've been before?--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] ([[User talk:Acepeacemaker|talk]])
:I would agree that it looks nothing like a Colt, more like a Webley, but it isn't a perfect match for that either. As far as I can tell every one of these weapons is a hybrid or fabrication of some sort. The AK is the same shape as an AK-47, but every single part of it is wrong in some way. The rifle used by Skull Face's guys is pretty close to a real gun, as everything up the the rear of the handguard is a SIG SG 550, but ahead of that it goes to hell (looks a bit like an FNC from that point on). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:12, 12 June 2013 (EDT)
::Yeah back to the AK, in the shot I took of Snake disarming a guy, that AK has the elevated rear sight like a Galil [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:33, 12 June 2013 (EDT)
:::That AK is such a mess it is ridiculous. if you look at the receiver it actually appears to be partly based on that of an FN FAL (left side reflected on both sides of the AK) with an AKM dust cover with an AKS-74U rear sight. Added to this you have the weird straight post front sight (which I think I recognise from something but can't place), the slotted flash hider which looks a bit like a shortened Druganov, a vent-less handguard which looks like it has an M16A2 handguard texture applied to it, and a gas block like nothing I have seen on an AK. Also, unless they are at different game build stages there are two different rifles here, as the one with the rear sight at the top of the back cover has a Bakelite style 5.45×39mm style mag with the shallower curve. The guns are so f'ed up in this game so far that I almost get the feeling that they weren't actually designed for it, they just took existing models from other games and messed them up in the hopes that nobody would notice. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:22, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

:::I took a look around at some AK variants and the front sight post that you mentioned you couldn't place looks like it's from the AK-74. Could also be taken from the PKM. Take a look at the entry for [[9th Company]] and compare --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 05:09, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think so, the AK-74 front sight has a sloped back and a cut out in the middle, whereas this is vertical front and back and has no cut out. It also attaches to the barrel in a different way to any of the AK type sights. I've since remembered the thing it reminds me of, which is the front sight used on the original Gerat 06 prototype. I highly doubt this is what they deliberately based it on as this is such an obscure weapon, but this is what it reminded me of when I first saw it:[[File:Mauser Gerat 06 Early.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Mauser Gerat 06 - 7.92×33mm Kurz]] --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:05, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::I just noticed, it also looks a lot like the front sight on the Knorr-Bremse paratrooper rifle prototype as seen [http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6949/knorrbremse1pz5.jpg here], the groove up the side is very similar. Both this and the Gerat 06 front sight are hooded though, although if they just used a random side on image they found as a reference you might not necessarily realise and model it as open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:26, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

::Yeah, the AK (in-game name is currently SVG-76) is a mingling of numerous AK-variants. Rear sights altering between the Valmet/Galil/Vektor variants and the AKMSU ones, magazines altering between the long 7.62 ones and 5.45 bakelite ones and so on. And since the AK is (arguably) inspired by StG 44, it may just also borrow elements from other weapons notably inspired by StG 44. This is probably just to have a "universal in-game AK". The game - from what I understand - takes place in handful of hotspots of early-mid 1980's and therefore it'd be tricky for armed groups - ranging from African Guerillas to Soviet Ground Forces at their technological peak - to reliably have the very specific variant of certain firearm in use, as there tends to be tiny variations from country to country. Though, why do the Soviets have the Valmet/Galil sights on their AK variants? I thought Mikhail Kalashnikov and majority of AK users in Soviet/Russian army hated the Valmet style rear sights!? [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 03:04, 18 August 2014 (EDT)

Let's hope the final product is a little different than advertised. In previous games, the weapons were slightly altered from early footage. In a way, the different weapon designs give off a sense of familiar yet alternate view of the period that the game takes place in. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:43, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

Anyway, you think the revolve might be a Nagant? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:45, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== Punished Snakes Camo ==

can anyone identify the camo snake uses in the phantom pain trailer ? looks like tiger stripe but is more arid, but not the same as the desert tiger stripe that Drebin wears

cheers

[[User:Sike|Sike]] ([[User talk:Sike|talk]]) 18:35, 3 May 2014 (EDT)

Drebin wears Desert DPM by the looks of it. Snake has Desert Tiger Stripe. Also it's Big Boss not Snake.
[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 23:52, 11 July 2014 (EDT)

yes i know he is Big Boss, but he is also refered to as Venom Snake(latest e3) and Kaz calls him Snake in the trailer. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] ([[User talk:Sike|talk]]) 08:28, 23 August 2014 (EDT)

:Eh, we'll just keep calling him Big Boss, that's who he is the rest of the time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:05, 10 January 2015 (EST)

==Finished product==

So from all the recent game footages, it looks like all these franken guns are going to remain. Which is unfortunate. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:20, 13 August 2014 (EDT)

:Much too bad, really. MGS1 started the trend of authentic firearms in the series, and now we've jumped straight into the realm of fictional firearms. Of course, the likes of the Foxhound unit in the first game were certainly fantastical, but the modelled-from-real-life hardware gave it a certain anchor to reality. There were certainly lots of period-accurate firearms that Kojima and his team could have modelled for this game, but for no reason I can fathom, historical accuracy for firearms seems to no longer be a priority for this series, leaving us fans of authentic weaponry in games out in the cold for this title. It makes me wonder if Kojima will also use fictional guns for his upcoming [[Silent Hill]] game starring [[Norman Reedus]], which is another Konami series that has generally used realistically-modelled guns. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 20:04, 14 August 2014 (EDT)

::It's not even just Kojima. It's becoming a trend for games to feature mostly fictional guns. Look at Resident Evil and GTA. Both game series featured guns modeled on real life counterparts for the most part in the past. It's a shame and I hope this trend doesn't take over most games. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:::Well, to be fair, in Peace Walker, Mother Base invented virtually every weapon that would be invented for the next thirty years, so it does ''sort of'' make sense... [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:49, 19 December 2014 (EST)

:::: If it's any consolation, somebody will probably mod the game to add real weapons when it comes to PC. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 17:12, 19 December 2014 (EST)

:::::My theory is Ground Zeroes (and this, if it's similar) are actually a Grim And Adult story written by Huey about Big Boss. When he reads it he glares and goes YOU'RE FIRED and kicks Huey into the sea and that's why Huey isn't working for Big Boss when Otacon is born. Calling it now. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:16, 1 January 2015 (EST)

::::@Yocapo32 - you might be on to something. Ground Zeroes's FOX Engine has been recently cracked. http://dev.cra0kalo.com/?p=268 [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 04:33, 4 January 2015 (EST)

Well for the GTA series, most of the guns were pretty real. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:22, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:Yeah, I meant that GTA V didnt have real models, but the series did in the past. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:33, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

::Well, referring to the new Silent Hill game, Silent Hill doesn't really provide the player with any significant firepower (the MAC-10 in Silent Hill 3 was the only full auto weapon in the series so far), so I'm gonna guess that we'll be getting a hold of some kind of Beretta, or maybe a generic 1911. Heavier weapons might be generic shotguns or bolt action rifles, though. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 13:10, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:There was the MAC-11 in [[Silent Hill 4]]. But you didn't have direct control over that weapon. I was hoping that a Silent Hill game by Kojima would feature realistic capacities for more ingame guns (such as 15 rounds or more in a "wonder nine," like the S&W Sigma from the first game), but now that it looks like he's gone into fictional firearm territory for his flagship series that's unlikely now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 04:19, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

:The PMCs had the M4 and snake had a GSR right up until the release and then SBR SCAR-H's and snakes operator came out of no where... Hoping that is the case, but in yongs video, ocelots dudes still had the FNC frankengun that is paramount in every video so far... Really hoping, but worried, and think it might taint the game a little but if I have to deal with stupid guns...

Seriously, is it so hard for them to use real guns instead of inventing fictional ones? I mean the PSP game that came before all used real guns and that's a PSP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:44, 12 September 2014 (EDT)

After watching a new cutscene involving Quiet, I am just bothered by how they didn't animate a sling for Snake even in the cutscene? Seriously, it looks like it's glued to his side pouch [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:42, 25 September 2014 (EDT)

:Not quite sure, but I think this is largely due to cutscenes being animated in real-time, rather then being pre-rendered. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 01:33, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

I believe The revolvers Ocelot uses in the MGO trailer bare a strong resemblance to the Mateba 2006m Icould be wrong though http://img01.militaryblog.jp/usr/toyguncatalog/MATEBA-1s.jpg

We've already sorta ID the gun. It's pretty much the fictional URAGAN-5. He's even carrying the shotgun shells for the gun...Seriously I rolled my eyes that they couldn't give him back his SAAs. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:07, 1 January 2015 (EST)

:I feel this further supports my idea that this story is entirely in the imagination of the guy who thought putting an Easter island head and a chainsaw arm on a tank made any kind of sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:40, 2 January 2015 (EST)
:What are you talking about?

== Best item in MGS history ==

Apparently this works like the playboy / book / magazine and cements that Mother Base is silly.

[[Image:MGS5-BestItem.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

I really hope this is in singleplayer. I will call it Lil' Boss. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:01, 10 January 2015 (EST)

:Did you play MGS4's multiplayer? Not only did they use books to distract other players for a brief time, there was also the very silly "Charm" skill, which you can see demonstrated [http://youtu.be/4GQV8AuMVRw here].

:Anyway, this concept of "cute stuffed animal used as a distraction" has had some real-life attempts based on it, such as disguising the muzzle of a cornershot weapon. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:17, 11 January 2015 (EST)

::I'm not sure if anyone's ever used that thing seriously, though. And generally you're not hoping your opponent will be tricked into petting the Cornershot. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 06:53, 18 January 2015 (EST)

:::Vietcong used to place explosives inside kids toys all the time during the Vietnam war, so it's not a massive departure from reality, (Here's hoping it's not just a distraction but can in fact be armed). [[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 12:57, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

::::Didn't Soviets also use toys to trick Afghan child soldiers into activating booby traps and such? It's been confirmed that atleast one section of the game takes place admist of Soviet war in Afghanistan and that child soldiers are to be featured in certain numbers. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 08:47, 18 January 2015 (EST)

:::::I'm not sure about deliberate usage of rigged toys specifically against child soldiers in Afghan, but the PFM-1 mine, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda#Toy-shaped_land_mines infamous for it's unassuming shape], has been known to have caused notorious causalities with unassuming children who associated the smooth and unconventional shape of the airdropped mine to a piece of a plastic toy. However, the shape and size of the object weren't dictated by a purposeful and vengeful Soviet anti-children doctrine, rather by unfortunate effects of aerodynamics. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 13:41, 18 January 2015 (EST)

::::::This still establishes that MGS soldiers are effectively just small children when it comes to cute things. And I think the "these were designed to kill kids" allegations date right back to German butterfly bombs from WW2. Also don't blow up the fluffy doggie. What is wrong with you. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 15:18, 18 January 2015 (EST)

:Here's a [http://youtu.be/UIhwnhSmmI8 video link] showing the "cute animal disguise" applied to a cornershot weapon (I would assume it's supposed to look unassuming at a distance, because up close it's clearly not very realistic, not to mention how in real life, small animals in war zones tend to be mangy or bearing scars from the challenges of surviving in such a hostile environment). I can think of one unintended consequence if that disguise becomes commonplace, though. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:10, 19 January 2015 (EST)

== Bullpup ==

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8_Tu9LIMAAgkHW.jpg:large

Can see part of a bullpup rifle here. Cheek rest reminds me of FAMAS but it looks like an AK mag in it. Would guess a hybrid of FAMAS and Vepr.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:Methinks this frankie is most likely substitute for Steyr AUG from Peace Walker. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 09:40, 4 February 2015 (EST)
::A clearer pic from a Let's Play vid
http://s28.postimg.org/fws1yimel/fff.png
Receiver definitely looks FAMAS-y. Front end is bastardised.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:::Gives off a heavy Steyr ACR/H&K G-11/ASh-12.7 vibe.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 02:02, 25 August 2015 (EDT)
::::I got to see it in the Mother Base research screen on a livestream and the silhouette is very much like that of the ACR.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== MT5 smg ==

That high bolt puts me in mind of the CZW 9

http://www.czechweapons.com/img/produkty/vojenske-zbrane/samopal-czw-9-m/big/7.jpg

though once you add a silencer on it'll look similar to a Daewoo K7.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== Ocelot Revolvers ==

I been looking at the picture, and Ocelot is definitely not wielding URAGAN-5s; They have six chambers, the barrel is much smaller and thinner, and it doesn't have an elevated front sight. It could be a variant that shoots a regular revolver chambering, but there's no way to know at the moment. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 19:52, 5 March 2015 (EST)
:Yeah, and they look much too small for the cartridges he's carrying, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 20:29, 5 March 2015 (EST)

==The anachronism is strong with this game after watching E3 videos ==
So now we have red dot sights on what clearly are EOtech inspired optics. I know this is a very fictional world of the 80s, but compared to previous games in the franchise, they are taking the tech to an extreme. We still don't know why all the fictional guns or a clear report about it, just theories. If they had problems with more western weapons having copy right issues, they are so many other guns that they could get around it like the AK or they could go to other weapons that aren't copyright protected...which again...weird and we got Metal Gear Rising that also used real gun models for some things and that is still a game owned by Konami.

When I first saw the I-Droid, I couldn't stop laughing at how stupid that kind of tech is compared to previously used tech in the MGS series. It boggles my mind how it isn't in continuity with its own universe when it comes to tech and weapons. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:48, 19 June 2015 (EDT)

The first game (Metal Gear Solid, not Metal Gear, in fact yeah, even Metal Gear) has a giant nuclear equipped, walking battle mech, Anachronisms don't really apply to this series, while I'm bummed that the weapons aren't rel world weapons, it makes sense to have their own custom weapons as events in this series happened differently than in the real world which could have easily lead to the creation of different weapons manufacturers than in the real world, at least they actually having some sort of connection/similarities as if they actually have been developed by a real company, not just random designs for each weapon. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 23:32, 19 June 2015 (GMT)

:Eh, Peace Walker had a modern MP3 player as the final Walkman and MSF inventing more or less everything that would be invented for the next twenty years, they're just being consistent. :P I think either they had some deal to make Airsoft versions of their fictional weapons, or Kojima's bought into that stupid "gun companies advertise through games" nonsense which given Big Mama's ridiculous speech about FPSes being PMC propaganda in MGS4 wouldn't surprise me. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 20:06, 19 June 2015 (EDT)

I heard that it was more due to the new customization mechanics. Yoji Shinkawa wanted to make a deeper customization system where you could swap different components between weapons, and this would not work as well with established weapons, where you're bound by real world accessories and rail systems and all that jazz. I'd also like to add on to RedRobinAlphas comment, that in the lore the Patriots had kept most advanced tech like giant mecha and nanomachines under wraps --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:26, 20 June 2015 (EDT)aidoru

:Well yeah, but that doesn't really cover why they'd photoshop the new guns into old images or put them in Ground Zeroes which didn't have those options. And it does cause continuity problems when you then have the later games with only modern weapons in them and no derivatives of these new ones, though it's not like that's much change from the working antigravity system in Peace Walker I guess. There are still anachronisms in the series because MGS1 established this world is more or less like ours in the (then) near future, only now we're discovering that most of the tech that was used in that game was obsolete in the 70s in the game's own universe. Really if they're going to change things this radically they'd be better off doing a clean-slate reboot and make Metal Gear and MGS again with modern resources and a focus on a coherent plot for the whole series.

:I mean to be honest the only reason the realistic attachments in MGS4 were so disappointing was there was only one thing for most of the attachment points and a lot of weapons had no options (like the Russian rifles having no scopes, not even a RIS add-on to use the US ones); especially with a near-future setting they could have had all kinds of things like sensor units and stabilisers and stuff. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:14, 20 June 2015 (EDT)

::Yeah, MGS4 was pretty disappointing in that area, especially the more silly things like the MP7 being unable to take the Aimpoint sight, or the SCAR being unable to take the M320 even though it was perfectly fine on the M4. That said, even with the goofy tech and frankenguns everywhere, I still think this'll be one of the better Metal Gear Solid titles. Nothing will beat blasting Maneater while strafing Soviet outposts from a custom notBlackhawk. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 02:59, 20 June 2015 (EDT)aidoru

:::Oh yeah, I mean if it lets you Fulton sheep and distract people with a fluffy dog it can't be all bad, but I would love to see a modern version of MGS1 with a scaled-up Shadow Moses. Like, not just shoehorning MGS2 mechanics into MGS1 maps like Twin Snakes (I mean given how stupid the Mk 23 is and the range involved, Snake should probably have been able to beat Sniper Wolf with just his sidearm in both fights), but actually ground-up redoing it with a big open map and loads of different approaches, maybe also streamlining the plot with half the number of betrayals so Snake comes off as less of an idiot (I mean how the hell did they expect him to never find out there was a Metal Gear in the base?) and Liquid requires more than a pair of sunglasses to outwit him. Maybe keeping the original MGS1 thing that you can't finish the game without killing anyone because that isn't how spec ops missions work, I'm surprised Kojima's kept that this long given how much he keeps focusing on how War Is Graaagh Harrrgh Arrrgh despite canon Snake being the most harmless soldier in history. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:14, 20 June 2015 (EDT)

::::The M320 thing is actually correct if you think about it (although probably by accident) as the M320 is designed to mount on to only the M16 or M4. You would need a slightly different version if you wanted to rail mount it to a SCAR. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 07:37, 20 June 2015 (EDT)

== Some Frankie Gun names revealed in 2015 E3 Playable Demo ==

https://youtu.be/gtgNUFSoHv8?t=24m36s

[[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 09:41, 20 June 2015 (EDT)

[[Image:MSG5-WeaponList-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
Uploaded in case anyone can identify any of the weapons that haven't been identified yet. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 21:10, 20 June 2015 (GMT)
:The thing in the bottom left is a [[Sturmpistole]] without the stock fitted. It actually looks pretty dead on which I think makes it the only gun in the game that isn't a frankengun of some sort. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:14, 20 June 2015 (EDT)
::The Ze'ev is probably meant to be the Uzi equivalent. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:04, 21 June 2015 (EDT)aidoru
:::@Commando552 - also judging from the 2015 E3 gameplay demo, the game's SVD Dragunov replacement - Bambetov SV - looks pretty much like a Dragunov rifle should. Only the forearm looks little off. Shown at 26:04 in the video above. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]])
::::The Bambetov SV also uses a pistol grip instead of the normal skeleton/thumbhole stock that the Dragunov has. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 03:05, 21 June 2015 (EDT)Aidoru
I'm guessing that the Geist P3 is either the ubiquitous "wonder-nine" type pistol (Beretta 92, SIG Sauer P226, CZ-75 etc.) or FN Five-Seven equivalent of the game. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

== New gameplay footage ==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur6vhxVg6gE

Some footage of a semiauto shotgun, nonlethal variants of rifles introduced, and RAWKETTO PUNCH
--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 23:52, 6 July 2015 (EDT)Aidoru
[[File:UN rifle nonlethal MGSV TPP.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I guess nonlethal guns ingame are marked blue. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 00:48, 7 July 2015 (EDT)Aidoru
:I think the 7.62mm "UN-AUTOMATIC" was lethal? It might be customization options.

:There's a UN-AAM that looks like a PKM-M249 mashup but it's 5.56mm. KABARGA-83 shotgun looked more like an AEK or AMD rifle than a Saiga. Blackhawk has M134s side-mounted.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

IMO:
* UN ARC NL = FN FAL counterpart. Some SIG SG 542 elements. Blue barrel seems to designate a non-lethal round firing model.
* Kabarga-83 = Saiga-12 counterpart.
* UN-AAM = FN Minimi taking over Stoner 63 from Peace Walker. Takes cues from 1974 army trial version of FN Minimi. [[http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/FN-Minimi-1974-Army-improved.jpg]]
[[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 07:16, 7 July 2015 (EDT)
:I think the UN ARC is the rifle that the XOF troops carry
[[File:MGS5SIGrifle2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 20:30, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

==Sz.-336==

Doesn't anyone else think that the Sz.-336 in the game is actually a [[Steyr MPi 81]] (albeit with a Skorpion stock)? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] ([[User talk:MoviePropMaster2008|talk]]) 03:10, 22 June 2015 (EDT)
:It's more likely that they took various Cold War submachine guns and mashed them together. The Sz.-336 has a sidemounted charging handle, and the ejection port is placed a bit closer to the grip than the MPi 69/81, and the grip itself has thicker serrations. I can definitely see the resemblance though.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 03:24, 22 June 2015 (EDT)

It mostly resembles the Alka M-93: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/349029039847211948/ ([[User talk:SaberKitsune|talk]])

==Gamescom 2015 screenshots==

http://imgur.com/a/wxpiE
I can see one new weapon--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 19:39, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
:Which one? All the weapons in these pictures we've seen before. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 16:35, 04 August 2015 (GMT)
::That orange rifle that looks like the AM-68 but using the 7.62mm magazine from the UN ARC rifle, painted orange.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 13:16, 4 August 2015 (EDT)

==Weapons/Items info-graphic==
Found this info-graphic on [https://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/comments/3gbxzh/mgsv_spoilers_updated_infographics_about_the/| Reddit] that shows all known weapons and item descriptions, might be of interest to some people.
[[File:MSG5-WeaponList-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 20:10, 28 August 2015 (GMT)
:I found some weapon icons here.

http://www.gosunoob.com/metal-gear-solid-5/best-weapons-in-mgsv/

And you can find text lists of all weapons around the web. Looks like a lot less weapons than what was in Peace Walker.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== Weapon model viewer ==

So TPP allows you to view the weapon models in the loadout scene. I can't get it to zoom in so it's less helpful with pistols, but for others I'd recommend taking screens of the unmodified base weapon and replacing some of those pixelated shots on the page.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
::I think you have to unlock MB's weapons development menus for the more in depth weapon viewer.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 20:37, 1 September 2015 (EDT)
:::https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTT7FvYqdtE Apparently to get the weapon customization/weapon viewer with zoom in/out modes, you have to complete a certain set of missions in Africa.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 23:35, 2 September 2015 (EDT)

== The lack of real guns ==

So does anyone really know why MGS V all the suddenly dropped the use of real fireamrs for frankenguns? Does it have to do with Konami being wankers and not willing to drop money on weapon licensing or some other reason(s)?

Any form of media that get guns (mostly) right like MGS does is always fun but to see the last (real) MGS not having any of it is just sad :'( --[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 19:04, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
:I don't think Kojima has said anything officially, but my guess is it's a mix between not wanting to spend a bunch on weapon licenses, and the fact that the story of this game is strongly anti war, and weapons manufacturers might not want their firearms associated with it as, well, they are technically weapons of war. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 00:20, 03 September 2015 (GMT)
::Well, I've been shrugging all the equipment off as fantasy world that the 80s wished they got. I mean, weapon mounted lights on long guns and pistols and electronic optics...in 1984...The I-Droid is in particular a funny piece of tech that doesn't even belong in the future MGS4 that takes place in 2014. So yeah, I'm disappointed at how they couldn't do real weapons but it doesn't deter a good game so far [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:38, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
::Game developers don't have to pay for using real weapon models in games, only for the names and logos of real weapon companies.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 23:25, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
:::Speaking of lights mounted on guns, that does remind me of a documentary i saw about some hostage crisis in the UK back in 90s (or maybe it was the late 80s?) These SAS guys where using MP5's and on top of them they had mounted these ridiculously large torches.
:::Anyway, it's to bad that gun porning was dropped but at least the in game guns are well designed.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:54, 3 September 2015 (EDT)
::::I assume you are talking about the Iranian Embassy Siege, which was actually even earlier in 1980. The torches are big C or D cell Maglite style torches (Kel-Lites I believe but not sure), which were still relatively new at the time. The mounts seen during the siege were kind of a bodge job where they were fixed on to the standard MP5 clam mount, but later on they started using a bracket which replaced the handguard so the torch was more out of the way under the barrel. Even with the torch on the scope mount you could still aim with the irons as these looked through the bottom of the mount, however the SAS only really used point shooting with their MP5s for this sort of range (particularly as they were wearing respirators making it hard to actually look through the sights anyway). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:29, 3 September 2015 (EDT)
::::At least I can mash together a frankenAK and a frankenSig/FAL like a not fugly version of Army of Two: 40th Day--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 00:58, 4 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::Either way, that torch on the MP5 looked ridicules.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 10:01, 4 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::[[Image:Tacticol Shootgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
::::::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:20, 8 September 2015 (EDT)
I have a feeling the reason was for the R&D trees and part commonality; if they can design the guns so the parts are scaled to one another, it makes it easier to swap them between weapons without it looking weird or parts physically not fitting on guns (the worst in the actual game is putting some of the ARC stocks on the SVG blocks access to the upper receiver release button and would prevent it from being removed with the stock attached). That and if the guns are fictional you can come up with upgrade steps for them that look like upgrades rather than Peace Walker having to present things like helicopter-mounted M60s as upgrades to normal ones. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:08, 8 September 2015 (EDT)
:That might also be the reason why all the calibers are simplified so much from previous games. Like how 5.56mm is used for both Western and Soviet weapons, and how 7.62 is just 7.62, instead of being x51, x54r, x39, etc. Contrast that to 4, where 90% of Drebins shop was taken up by different ammo types.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 21:21, 9 September 2015 (EDT)

== You guys realized this by now I hope? ==

WU is built on HK P7. look at the top of the slide, ejection port, and striker firing mechanism in game. It's pretty obvious in fps view, they just used a generic-looking very smooth grip instead of the squeeze safety ones, and added more flair to front of barrel Slide*. [[User:Pepper|Pepper]] ([[User talk:Pepper|talk]]) 22:54, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
:I'm afraid I have to say that I can't really see it. http://www.vgblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/MetalGearSolidV_ThePhantomPain_CollectorsEdition_GoldPistol.jpg [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
::That's a custom variant with the front end of an AMT automag. if you look at the slide in first person, it is extremely obvious that the slide is built around a P7. also the target sights are spot on for the P7's target sights you could buy for it. Here's some first-person shots from in game.
[http://i.imgur.com/5X2ZWO5.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5X2ZWO5.jpg - Note the thin cuts in the blocky slide protrusion, only weapon I know of that has these and is striker fired is the P7]
[http://i.imgur.com/MC0RCab.jpg http://i.imgur.com/MC0RCab.jpg - Note the absense of a hammer, and the circular inlay, almost spot on to the p7's safety dot, which is red when gun is live, and white when safe.]

I'm not saying it doesn't have influence of other guns as well, it's just I've 3D modeled enough frankenguns and also high detail P7's myself from references to spot the obvious influence. [[User:Pepper|Pepper]] ([[User talk:Pepper|talk]]) 20:39, 4 September 2015 (EDT)

:TBH I really don;t see the resemblance to a P7 either. Firstly, as for the sights, what brand of sights do you think it looks like? There were no factory target sights for the P7 series and the only aftermarket ones that i can find (e.g. LPA and MMC) look nothing like this. These sights look more like they are originally built into the slide rather than a drop in replacement, kind of like the sights of a Colt Gold Cup National Match. As for the general shape of it, there is absolutely no similarity in the frame so that is a write-off in terms of the P7 argument. On to the slide, to start with it bulges out at the bottom for the slide rails in a way that the P7 doesn't, and it also doesn't have the rounded top like the P7 slide does. If you compare pictures from the back, I really don't think you can argue that [[http://i.imgur.com/MC0RCab.jpg this]] and [[http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/-GuNuT-/HK/DSCN0433.jpg this]] are obviously the same gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:30, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

:I get that it's hard to spot from a technical point of view, yes, they very closely resemble the LPA sights made for the P7 M series guns. from an artistic point of view, it's obvious they used a longslide competition modded P7M8 as a starting point and made cuts into the slide, used a beveled angle top instead of rounded, and made it's slide movement almost similar to the desert eagle's shape (front stays in place while the back edge and lower front lips slide over it) and also a pistol grip more at home on an AEK-971. The key thing is that they were modeling for third person. I know that every MGS game since 2 has had an aiming functionality, but the first person models have always lacked detail compared to the capabilities of a PS2/3 (polycount on first person models in games with view and world models is typically 5-25x higher, mgs2 on the other hand had almost the same polycount, usp in first person is less than 100 extra vertices compared to in world/third person model, only change is really in detail of light under the barrel and the weapon's hammer) (MGS4 for example, uses a LOD system with 4-5 levels for each gun. level 0 is first person. level 1 is third person/very close npc. level 2 is npc somewhat close. level 3 is npc farther, etc. the difference from level 0 to level 1 is less than 500-800 triangles for almost all weapons, which for weapons that are around 3000-8000 triangles at LOD 0 is not that much, it's basically detailed sights and firing selectors/etc. even the p90 with it's impressive ammo spending ammunition happens in both third and first person, where any sane fps developer wouldn't even do that in first person) All the guns were designed with third person visual flare in mind. That's why the silhouette of many guns in first person feels somewhat natural, but in third person they seem like obvious amalgamations of many designs, or outright strange. I know it technically doesn't pass the muster, but the starting point for alot of the guns is obvious to me. Tokyo Marui started the build based on the looks of one of their competitor's products, the MGC P7M13. [http://img01.militaryblog.jp/usr/toyguncatalog/P7M13_SC-6s.JPG This right here.] [[User:Pepper|Pepper]] ([[User talk:Pepper|talk]]) 13:17, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

== Weapon stances ==
Okay, so far I've only done the hospital so far and I continually noticed how the PMC Assassin guys are handling their SMGs and firing them sideways. Is there some kind of benefit they are gaining by firing it like that or what? I've noticed several shows/games doing this now (Falling Skies Season 5) where the weapon is intentionally held sideways. Now I could understand if the shooter was in a rush to fire the weapon but here the soldiers intentionally use this method. Anyone else feel the same? [[User:Majorcamo|Majorcamo]] ([[User talk:Majorcamo|talk]]) 23:19, 2 September 2015 (EDT)
* It's so the brass doesn't hit the guy next to you, or ricochets off the wall into your clothes. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 23:38, 2 September 2015 (EDT)

== AK Template ==

I felt the page had become too focused on the weapons' context in the game world instead of the real world. A lot of these guns are clearly inspired by very common real-world counterparts and the point of these pages are to help inform people either what games their favourite guns can be used in, or what real-life guns make up the content for their favourite game. And I think no fan of, say, the Glock 18 is going to care if the details got a bit mangled when the overall silhouette and action of the gun is fundamentally the same.

To that end I've redone the SVG entries as AK entries as an example of what I think the gun entries should be like. There's also a lot of text talking about brief glimpses of guns in trailer and pixelly shots that need to be cleared out anyway. I think the weapon entry should be named after the gun it's most similar to, with follow-up pics of other guns if there are readily identifiable chunks of the gun model that clearly belong to another gun. General errors with the models that are down to the devs not having a clue as to the internal workings of a receiver shouldn't have time wasted on them trying to source tenuous real-life counterparts for every single nut and bolt of the gun.

There's the issue of their being multiple versions for each gun. I think if there's one version of the gun that's closest to a real-life one, and the other versions are just the same gun with random parts swapped out (AKS-74 vs AK-74) the other entries should be folded into that one. Let me know what you think.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== More weapons ==

So recently I just reached Africa and the "American supplied emplaced weapon" looks like an M2. Also the Hind/Havoc mashup and BTR-80 based vehicles look like they are equipped with 2A42 based guns and the ZU-23-2 based AA with 2A14 based guns. I'll try to get some pictures of them up along with some of the weapon variants when I unlock them. Also the PKM based gun also looke like it has some elements of the RPD (sorta like the hybrid one in RE6). [[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 07:27, 4 September 2015 (EDT)

== Weapon Names ==
I thought it was a rule that the weapons on the page be named as their real counterparts? [[User:Majorcamo|Majorcamo]] ([[User talk:Majorcamo|talk]]) 23:27, 7 September 2015 (EDT)
:Seeing as how each gun takes parts from a multitude of other guns, its easier to just label it the in game name, and talk about the real life counterparts in the description--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 23:59, 7 September 2015 (EDT)
::If a gun is a renamed version of a real gun or is a real gun with minor modelling tweaks, then yes, it should be listed under the name of the real firearm. However in the case of guns like the majority here where they are amalgams of different designs (or are not really based on any one design at all) the convention is to list them by the fictional name. However, in order to stop confusion the name should be in quotation marks, e.g. "WU Silent Pistol", in order to make it clear which names are real firearms and which are fictional in-game names. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:55, 8 September 2015 (EDT)
:::Yes, this. Also, could we not crop the screenshots, please? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:23, 8 September 2015 (EDT)

== Weapon customisation no-go ==

Saw this in the Bambetov section:

[[File:Mgsv_tpp_custom_Bambetov_sv.jpg|thumb|none|600px|It is possible to create a Mk. 14 EBR using a Bambetov SV receiver from the in-game customization menu.]]

I really don't think we should be adding custom guns. If you haven't got that far, about half way through the game you can unlock the ability to customize guns, which involves being able to swap out parts for parts from any other gun in the game. That includes sticking ridiculous sniper front-ends on tiny guns. Just because you can smoosh some random parts together to form the silhouette of another gun doesn't mean it's actually represented in the game.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:It's what's happening at the Payday 2 page so why not here?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 07:38, 9 September 2015 (EDT)
::As long as it's not actually listed as an Mk 14 EBR it's ok to use it as an illustration of the customisation things. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:47, 9 September 2015 (EDT)
:::I think the difference with the Payday 2 customisation and the customisation here is that in Payday 2 the customisation items are unique to the weapons where as here all you are doing is taking items from one of the weapons and adding it to another. Aka, starting with the MRS-4, having it with a SVG-76 barrel and a Bambetov stock, so all weapons have the same customisation options rather than each having their own unique attachments as in Payday 2, so all I think is needed, is a line saying something along the lines of "Once you unlock the 'Legendary Gunsmith' you can customize your weapons by interchanging barrels, stocks, sights and attachments, between weapons". --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 14:00, 09 September 2015 (GMT)
::::I'm writing an overview section like the one for Peace Walker to explain things like that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:15, 9 September 2015 (EDT)

[[File:Mgsvwtf.jpg|none|500px|thumb|URAGAN-5 in the game's customization menu, showing the most extreme options possible. It's a miracle that this thing can fire, let alone not fall apart. The barrel and the stock clip into the gun, and there's nothing to hold the cylinder in place. In fact, the barrel isn't even lined up with any of the chambers!!!]]

Also this Uragan-5 is either hacked or glitched, the level 3 Uragan-5 doesn't have any custom options at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:17, 9 September 2015 (EDT)

It's glitched. If you look at this: http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/309520781/what-did-he-mean-by-this you can see some of the results of this glitch. [[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 21:21, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
:404'd. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:32, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

Speaking of weapon customization/upgrades, I'm saddened that they could fit in a multi barrel GP-25, but not an upgrade for the Rasp that turns it into a Chiappa Triple Threat style shotgun.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 20:34, 17 September 2015 (EDT)

== SVG-76 ==

The receiver and the pistol grip of the SVG-76 and the SVG-76U resemble the ones from SA vz. 58P and the SA vz. 58V, respectively. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 23:13, 10 September 2015 (EDT)

== Mateba ==
I think Revolver Ocelot's sidearm looks a lot more like the 2006M than the Unica 6.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 08:57, 12 September 2015 (EDT)
:They're actually just Uragan-5s with long barrels, as far as I can tell the GZ snub version doesn't even exist in TPP. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:53, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

== Geist P3 ==
Is it just me, or is the frame of the P3 heavily reminiscent of a Springfield XD, minus grip safety?--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 02:19, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

:It's got parts from others also, the fps-view of the slide shows it's also very influenced by other polymer framed pistols, like the Steyr M9.[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] ([[User talk:Pepper|talk]]) 09:12, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

::Is it the Geist that gets used by the Cypriot doctor when Quiet garrotes him in the intro? It looked like a separate handbag-pistol the player never gets to use.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

:::I was thinking it was the Geist too, but the Geist has a normal guide-rod-on-bottom-barrel-on-top configuration, whereas the Doctors handgun is more of a S&W Escort style configuration as seen in Taxi Driver.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 18:44, 16 September 2015 (EDT)
[[File:Taxi-swes1.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

== Unusable bipods? ==

JOOC, are the bipods on the automatic rifles and light machine guns usable or are they just aesthetic? Because it's slightly unusual to replace the bipod with a vertical foregrip since the former can be used to deploy the gun and provide suppressing fire from a fixed prone position like in Battlefield, which is a more realistic tactic used by squad support gunners in real-life. [[User:MJ79|MJ79]] ([[User talk:MJ79|talk]]) 16:50, 13 September 2015 (EDT)
:Pretty sure they're just cosmetic.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 23:27, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

== AM D114 Pistol ==

Am I the only that sees model wise it has more in common with a CZ 75 style pistol than a 1911? Especially the slide running along the inside of the frame design. At most I think it should have a mention and add the EAA Witness pic. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 17:00, 13 September 2015 (EDT)
[[File:MSG5-AM114-2.jpg|none|400px|thumb|The AM D114 Pistol as it appears in The Phantom Pain. Lv 1.]]
[[Image:Cz75.jpg|thumb|none|400px|"Pre-B" CZ 75 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:EAA-Witness-Full-Size.jpg|thumb|none|400px|EAA Witness Steel Full Size (with early production slide) - 9x19mm]]

== Ocelot's Revolvers ==

I don't know why the article insists that they're URAGAN-5s, they're obviously not chambered in 12 gauge, but what looks like a regular revolver cartridge (Given that it's Ocelot, I'm guessing .45 Long Colt), and the only reason they look alike is because they both fire from the six o' clock position --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 11:38, 14 September 2015 (EDT)
:They're both break action, and they're both pretty much identical in terms of aesthetics. Maybe they're a variant of the URAGAN unique to Ocelot.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 11:54, 14 September 2015 (EDT)
::Also, if they're not supposed to be Uragans, why is Ocelot carrying a bandolier of shotgun cartridges? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 19:49, 14 September 2015 (EDT)
:::Closer inspection on the images of Quiet and Ocelot show that their piece has a front sight with a much smaller profile, a barrel flush with the top of the frame, and the cylinder is identical in shape to the Chiappa Rhino. I think the revolver can stay under classification as a hybrid of the 2006M and Rhino, but it'd definitely not supposed to be the Urugan.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:29, 14 September 2015 (EDT)
::::Eh, it's a variation on the same model, probably just fiddling so it fit in Ocelot's holsters properly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 01:25, 15 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::Plus, if you take a look at the hammer and grip, they match up with the URAGAN's pretty much 1 to 1.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 02:24, 15 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::Well, in that case it would make more sense for Ocelot to be brandishing the Windurger S333 which fires actual revolver cartridges.-[[User:MJ79|MJ79]] ([[User talk:MJ79|talk]]) 14:34, 15 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, it's weird he'd be packing a pair of scaled-down wrist-breaking machines rather than normal revolvers, maybe they just came up with Ocelot's model before the S333 model, given it isn't in Ground Zeroes and all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:23, 15 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::::Maybe the URAGAN is in the vain of the [[Taurus Judge]] and was originally going to be able to load both Shotgun shells and standard pistol rounds, would explain why Ocelot is carrying both on his person, --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 21:46, 15 September 2015 (GMT)
:::::::::Yeah, whereas in the final game it's a 12 gauge, meaning it would be impossible to run out of ammunition for it since nobody who fired it would ever want to do so again. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:48, 15 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::::::New MG:O video seems to think that Ocelot's sidearms are, at least, [https://youtu.be/20aMKCGVVMo?t=10m a model from the URAGAN family tree with the same frame], called TORNADO-6. It's most likely chambered in a different caliber then the URAGAN-5, due to a capacity that is more then enough to kill anything that moves, and the ability to use Ocelot's signature ricochet shots. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 05:43, 18 September 2015 (EDT)

== AM MRS-4LS ==

I think the AM MRS-4LS isn't only inspired by the C7A1 LSW/Model 950 LMG but more of a hybrid of the Stoner 63 and Ultimax 100 too, making it a combination of three different firearms into one. The lack of the carrying handle and the fact that it has a foregrip when upgraded, the shape of the box magazine and especially the stock/butt makes it look more like the Ultimax and Stoner 63. What do you think?
:Um...
:[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Diemaco C7 LSW/Colt Model 750 LMG with Beta-C drum magazine - 5.56x45mm]]
:For the foregrip (which is an AR15 grip), the magazine is a C-Mag as with the one above while the Ultimax uses a single-drum and the MG version of the Stoner 63 uses a belt box, and the stock is a synthetic version of an RPK stock.
:[[Image:Rpk 01 drum.jpg|thumb|none|500px|RPK light machine gun with 75-round drum magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
:[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:39, 16 September 2015 (EDT)
::Seeing as how it is just a AM MRS-4R with the handgaurd and stock changed, then if any argument is to be made it is that it is based on the same thing that the AM MRS-4R is based on. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 14:02, 16 September 2015 (EDT)

[[File:Tppcoltmg.jpg]]

Still looks like the Ultimax in terms of configuration to me, without the carrying handle of Ultimax.

[[File:Ultimax-100-Mk2-SAW.jpg]]

:But there are no meaningful differences between that configuration and the C7 LSW, which also has a foregrip, actually has the correct drum magazine, and also has a carry handle. The front sight is a filled in AR15 front sight with the top hole completely gone and a small depression where the bottom one should be, and the gas regulator sticking out is closer to the FN FAL than the Ultimax. Hell, if you're that vague you could argue it's a tommy gun, or that the ''Ultimax'' is a tommy gun for that matter. :s [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:05, 17 September 2015 (EDT)

:Also, it may be worth mentioning that the upgraded handguard is extremely similar to the SPAS-12 heatshield, it even has the same holes on top of it. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 03:10, 18 September 2015 (EDT)

== Skull Face's lever-action piece ==

I think Skull Face's lever-action gun should be classified in the rifles or other category instead of the shotguns category since it's based more on a rifle than a shotgun. --[[User:MJ79|MJ79]] ([[User talk:MJ79|talk]]) 15:01, 16 September 2015 (EDT)
:Agreed, you see in the cutscene where Big Boss uses it that it is not a shotgun, it appears to be chambered in .45, if the game allows you to replay cutscenes I'll try to get a cap of it. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 21:22, 16 September 2015 (GMT)
::Um, it is under rifles. Was "assault rifles" but the UN-ARC is a battle rifle and his Mare's Leg isn't really either, so I've just changed the heading to "rifles." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 18:05, 16 September 2015 (EDT)

Talk:Rainbow Six Siege

2015-07-30T14:06:01Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Unidentified firearms */ new section

=Already...=
It seem that the M1911 Variant has an incorrect 10 rounds in a 8 rounds magazine. There is IN FACT a 10 rounds magazine for M1911s but it seem it's not in this one --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]
[[File:10roundsm1911.jpg|thumb|600px|none|10 Rounds magazine .45 ACP for M1911 and Variants]]

== New footage ==

Numerous new features can be seen clearly here: the MP5 ingame is referred to as the MP5F and has an unusual crooked stock (12:17), there is a USP for the terrorists, various attachments for the G36C including an oddly-reticuled ACOG scope, and the identification (at least ingame) of the 1911 as the M45 MEUSOC. At this stage it would appear that the MP5 has replaced the Mac-10 as the terrorists' weapon of choice. [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN9CMGuyGvQ

== Alpha weapons ==

Someone leaked some footage of the Alpha so we can't "use" it, but it showed a FAMAS G2, P90, UMP, Mossberg 591A1, P226, HK33A2, S&W M586, FNP-9, and a stand-alone M320

There's also a MAC-11. Don't know if that's the same gun as what's labeled as the MAC-10.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

:I am still waiting for the alpha key... Although I did answer that I don't play CoD, BF, nor Titanfall so maybe they won't even send the key... :( - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 03:32, 22 March 2015 (EDT)
::I watched this trailer on [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWgOSimxoPs YouTube] and I screencapped an the UMP, FAMAS F1 and an assault rifle I didn't recognize. At first I thought it was an HK416 but then I noticed it has a charging handle on the right side of the gun. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 16:44, 22 March 2015 (EDT)
[[File:R6Siege assault rifle 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown assault rifle]]
[[File:R6Siege Famas.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS F1]]
[[File:R6Siege UMP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Untextured UMP]]
They released a bunch of official footage today. FMG9, 5-7 USG, HK417, SA80 with DD rails, SG 556 XI, Remington R4. I think a Glock was briefly shown in a loadout window. FAMAS G2 is an F1 despite the name.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:Here's a screencap from the official site, the same picture also appears in the end of some videos, and I think there's MPX with a suppressor as in the MPX-SD variant, but the weapon itself is about the same length as the basic variant. Perhaps we see it in a future video. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 16:03, 31 March 2015 (EDT)
[[File:R6siege mpx.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Unidentified firearms ==

I'm entirely certain that the unidentified ''VSN'' is a ''Vityaz-SN'', [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/OSN_Saturn_special_purpose_unit_%28506-20%29.jpg a 9mm Parabellum submachine gun] in use with the Russian special units that belong to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, MVD. It is also used by some specialized police detachments, such as [http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/Interpolitex-2013/i-tF82bS7/0/O/Interpolitex2013part01-17.jpg Grom] of the Federal Drug Control Service.

The unidentified machine gun with a canted ammo box is actually a relatively well represented (as of late) ''PKP'' general purpose machine gun in an [http://i.imgur.com/gnAgMhX.jpg updated bullpup kit] by the Russian company Zenit. It was supposed to be used by special forces in close quarter urban combat apparently, but it didn't quite catch on. Still the initial batch was retained and could see limited action. Interestingly enough, Zenit is the same company that made the rail system and stock used by the Vityaz-SN. Ultimately, [http://www.zenitco.ru/files/pulemet2_1.jpg Zenit dropped the exotic bullpup kit] and went for something more conventional. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 10:06, 30 July 2015 (EDT)

Durarara!!×2 Shou

2015-07-26T11:24:45Z

BeloglaviSup: /* AK-74 */

[[File:Drrx2!! Shou BR cover.jpg|right|thumb|400px|Durarara!! ×2 Shou (January 10 - March 28, 2015).]]

{{TV Title Season|2 (Durarara!!×2 Shou)|Durarara!! (disambiguation){{!}}Durarara!!}}

__TOC__ 

=Pistols=

==Heckler & Koch USP==
A Heckler & Koch USP is used by Vorona as her sidearm, seen in the middle of "Hardship Makes the Man".

[[Image:HK-USP.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch USP - .45 ACP. Note the slightly longer barrel/slide and grip compared to the 9mm and .40 S&W models above.]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 12 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vorona aims the pistol at Shizuo.]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 12 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closeup of the pistol's trigger and trigger guard as Vorona pulls the trigger.]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 12 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vorona being disarmed of her sidearm by Akabayashi. You can see the grip here, which confirms that she was using the USP chambered in .45 ACP.]]

==IMI Desert Eagle==
An IMI [[Desert Eagle]] was used by a few Mafiya Boeviks in a flashback sequence in "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears".

[[Image:Desert-Eagle.jpeg|thumb|none|400px|Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50 AE.]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 07 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Mafiya Boevik is shot dead by Vorona before he could fire his Desert Eagle.]]

==SIG-Sauer P226R==
A [[SIG-Sauer P226R]] is used by a wounded Boevik in "Moscow Does Not Believe In Tears".

[[Image:P226R.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226R 9x19mm]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 07 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The wounded Boevik attempts to draw out his sidearm.]]

==SIG-Sauer P230==
A [[SIG-Sauer P230]] was used by Vorona in a flashback sequence in "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears".

[[Image:Sig P230 (black).jpg|400px|thumb|none|SIG-Sauer P230 .380 ACP (9mm kurz).]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 07 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vorona opens fire with the P230 at Mafiya Boeviks.]]

==Tokarev TT-33==
The [[Tokarev TT-33]] is seen in the hands of various criminals throughout the season.

[[Image:TT-30.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Tokarev TT-30, first version of Tokarev pistol - 7.62x25mm Tokarev.]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 07 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lingerin Douglanikov fires the TT-33 to take out a wounded Boevik in "Moscow Does Not Believe In Tears".]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 07 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lingerin with the TT-33 held on his right hand.]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 08 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Awakusu-gumi gurentai aims his pistol at Shizuo as he escapes in "The Ladies' Man Has Neither Money nor Power".]]

=Assault Rifles=

==AK-47==
[[AK-47]] assault rifles are seen used by Mafiya Boeviks working under Lingerin in a flashback sequence in "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears".

[[Image:AK-47 type II Part DM.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-47 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 07 08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lingerin's Boeviks drag the corpse of a dead rival Boevik.]]

==AK-74==
An AK-74 with a PBS-1 silencer is used by Vorona in the middle of "Hardship Makes the Man".

[[File:AK-74 with PBS-1 silencer.jpg|thumb|none|400px|An AK-105 with an attached PBS-1 silencer - 5.45x39mm]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 12 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vorona brandishes the silenced AK-74.]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 12 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A side view of the AK-74. Note that it appears to be animated very large, which should be impossible for Vorona to wield.]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 12 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vorona now prone with the assault rifle as she shoots the kei car Shizuo kicks at her. In this shot, the AK-74 is animated more accurately once again, except that the foregrip is animated in black.]]

=Sniper Rifles=

==Colt M16A2 DMR==
A Colt [[M16A2]] DMR is used by Kasuka Heiwajima in a TV special promoting his drama series ''Lunar Sniper'' in "A Picture Is Worth a Thousand Words". The configuration matches that of the "Golgo 13" airsoft replica made by Tokyo Mauri.

[[File:TMGO13M16.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Tokyo Marui "Golgo 13" M16 Airsoft Gun]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 01 00.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kasuka aiming the M16A2's mounted riflescope in a TV special promoting his action drama ''Lunar Sniper''.]]

==KSVK==
A [[KSVK]] anti-material rifle is used by Vorona near the end of "Moscow Does Not Believe In Tears" to fend off an attack from Celty.

[[Image:Ksvk2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Degtyarev KSVK 12.7 - 12.7x108mm]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 07 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vorona ports the KSVK.]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 07 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The KSVK is aimed at Celty after Vorona goes prone on the truck bed.]]

=Grenades=

==Model 7290 Flashbang==
Model 7290 Flashbangs are used by Sloan and Vorona throughout "No Use Crying Over Spilt Milk".

[[Image:Model 7290.jpg|thumb|none|130px|Model 7290 flashbang grenade]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 11 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A used flashbang thrown by Sloan at Awakusu-gumi gurentais.]]
[[File:Drrx2!! Shou 11 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vorona tosses the flashbang at Anri during a fight at Raira Academy.]]

[[Category:Anime]]
[[Category:Crime]]
[[Category:Drama]]
[[Category:Japanese Produced/Filmed]]
[[Category:Horror]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Television]]

Talk:Jurassic World

2015-07-18T07:36:55Z

BeloglaviSup: /* National Guard question */

__TOC__ 

=Other / Moved From Main Page=
==Cattle Prods==
ACU troopers are seen armed with what appear to be cattle prods similar to the ones used in ''[[Jurassic Park]]''.
[[Image:JW_Taser_rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ACU troopers in the background armed with cattle prods.]]

==Unknown Pistol==
A Jurassic World Security guard is seen with a pistol of unknown make.
[[Image:JW_Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|200px|The security guard on the left is wielding an unknown pistol.]]

=Discussion=
Am I the only one curious with the fact that a JW Park Warden is armed with a lever action rifle. I mean the original park had everyone armed with AR-15s or the SPAS-12. Being 2015, I think high-powered semi-auto rifles would be more reliable against large predators than a lever-action. - [[User:1morey]] December 3, 2014 9:02 PM (EST)

Well, as a matter of fact a lever action is more mechanically reliable (as in less prone to failures) than a semiauto, and is still one of the fastest manual operated actions (more than bolt action, basically on par with pump action). But yeah, in my opinion a large calibre pump action or lever action wouldn't be a bad choice - [[User:DonPatrono]] December , 2014 7:12 PM (CET)

:Also, remember that this particular rifle is chambered in .45-70 Government. This is a pretty powefull round, much more capable than a 5.56x45mm out of an AR-15. This gun is designed for short range hunting/defence of pretty much any North American animal including Grizzly bears so it would be capable of dealing with smaller dinosaurs like the Raptors, and possibly bigger stuff with a well placed shot. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:46, 4 December 2014 (EST)

Huh. I just learned something. Thanks for the explanation. [[User:1morey]] December 4, 2014 3:40 PM (EST)

Also, Chris Pratt isn't the game warden. He's a behavioral researcher on Raptors. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 16:54, 4 December 2014 (EST)

Well, it is conceivable that he's both (or maybe head of security). Robert Muldoon was the game warden and the Raptor expert. - [[User:1morey]] December 5 2014 1:20 PM (EST)

:Well, he was more the raptor expert because they kept trying to eat him, I'd assume raptor expert is actually a field of study by this point in the movie universe. Also the movie looks interesting but I'm a little worried this might have something to do with that doofy binned script that did the rounds ages ago where they were trying to train dinosaurs for the military. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 15:50, 5 December 2014 (EST)

Newly posted photo of Chris Pratt with the Marlin gives a much better look at the additions, It's got writing over the image so I'm not sure about adding it to the page --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 00:23, 29 March 2015 (GMT)
[[Image:Jurassic_World_Marlin_-_1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Traquilizer==
Please help ID this tranquilizer rifle. It doesn't look like a Vanquish. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]])
[[File:JW_Carbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Owen with the tranq rifle.]]

:Based on the ejection port which appears too small for the magazine and barrel, and the presence of those rather crude looking moulding seams on the receiver, I am inclined to think that it is either a total mock-up or something else inside a plastic shell. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:31, 21 April 2015 (EDT)

::I definitely saw the bolts cycling in various scenes, though I didn't see anything ejecting, so they're at least functional in some capacity. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:06, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

==Revolver==
It's ID'd as a Colt Python but the barrel underlug doesn't look right, furthermore it appears to have a fairly large barrel and a 5-round cylinder, making me think this is some kind of .44 Spl Intermediate revolver, along the lines of a [[Taurus Model 431]] (though not that, as it appears to have a larger ramp front sight). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 18:26, 25 May 2015 (EDT)

:Jimmy Fallon also had a revolver in his safety video, which was probably not ''actually'' a .50. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:06, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

== InGen Soldiers ==

Did Anyone catch what the InGen soldier who are brought in by Hoskins' character are called? They had some sort of name that ended with "group" or "division" or something like that but I forgot it. Either way, they can be seen with a few more weapons including what looked like a Mk 14, DRD Paratus and KSG used by the hunting party with the raptors, and the guy in the helicopter who shoots one of the little pterosaurs has a rifle that looked like it might have been a G36 variant fitted with a brass catcher. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:15, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
::Yeah, I thought I saw a DRD Paratus too. I think Jurassic World is the first movie its been in --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 20:47, 8 July 2015 (EDT)
:For the rifle which was used to shoot the pterosaurs, I think it uses a sort of first gen HK-417 or old G-36 mag due to it's shape. --[[User:ArmaLite15|ArmaLite15]] ([[User talk:ArmaLite15|talk]]) 14:08, 14 June 2015 (CET)

::I only noticed the rifle for a split second before the shot changed, it was mainly the style of the may that made me think it might have been a G36. Was kind of hard to tell though as most of the side of the receiver was obscured by the brass catcher.--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:02, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

::I think the tranquilizer is a modified H&K SL8 with the forend removed, the barrel cut down and a modified stock. --[[User:1morey]] June 14, 2015, 12:25 PM (EST)

:::I don't think so, the charging handle is in the wrong place, the magazine is wrong (I seem that remember that it kind of looked like a stereotypical 7.62 mag like on an M14), and no part of the receiver matches so it would have to be a plastic shell and it doesn't look bulky enough for that.--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:02, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

::::I definitely saw the M14 variant, there was an M249 at one point while they were running around, and earlier one of them setup an MG of some sort with a bipod on the roof of the truck when they stopped, could have been the same SAW, but didn't get a good look. I do remember noticing that pretty much every single scene cut featured a different rifle, but all the others that I can recall right now have been mentioned. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:06, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

Just saw the movie today. The InGen soldiers were from the InGen Private Security Division.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] ([[User talk:Wildcards|talk]]) 01:49, 24 June 2015 (EDT)

I saw: M249, Mk.14 EBR/M14 with rails, M4(M416?) with M203, not sure what else. At least some of the guns looked like they had 7.62 NATO mags, so who knows.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 13:18, 25 June 2015 (EDT)

==National Guard question==
I've got a question. At the end of the flick I saw a National Guardsman holding what looks like an M16A2, or is it a Colt Model 727? Please help.
:At the time they looked more like M16s to me rather than carbines but can't really remember. Also, what makes you say that these were National Guard? I assume that this scene was taking place in Costa Rica wasn't it?--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:08, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::Well, for one, Costa Rica doesn't have a military since the civil war of 1948. Not a standing army at least, but I somewhat doubt that Costa Rican police would, in such a climate, carry M16 rifles. Admittedly, the book went so far to have a Costa Rican Air Force(!) capable of napalm bombing an entire 57 square km island('''!'''). Could have even been an A4 model, but it's an M16 for sure, alright! --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 03:36, 18 July 2015 (EDT)

A Youth Orchestra (Orkestar jedne mladosti)

2015-07-10T13:39:45Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Tank T-72 */

{{Infobox Movie
|name = A Youth Orchestra (Orkestar jedne mladosti)
|picture = OJM-poster.jpg
|caption = ''Russian Cinema Poster''
|country = [[Image:YUG.jpg|25px]] Yugoslavia
|director = Svetislav Pavlović
|date= 1985
|language = Serbo-Croatian
|studio=Avala Film Union Film
|distributor
|character1=Dragiša Kojić
|actor1=[[Ljubisa Samardzic]]
|character2=Nena
|actor2=[[Gordana Bjelica]]
|character3=Yershov
|actor3=[[Aleksandr Arzhilovsky]]
|character4=Johan
|actor4=[[Marijan Srienc]]
|character5=Brauske
|actor5=[[Oleg Vidov]]
|character6=Elektricar
|actor6=[[Dušan Vojnovic]]
|character7=Gavra
|actor7=[[Dušan Aškovic]]
|character8=
|actor8=
|character9=
|actor9=
|character10=
|actor10=
}}

'''''A Youth Orchestra''''' (Original title is ''Orkestar jedne mladosti'') is a 1985 Yugoslavian war drama movie directed by Vladimir Pavlovich and starring [[Ljubisa Samardzic]] and [[Gordana Bjelica]] and [[Oleg Vidov]].

'''The following weapons are seen in the movie ''A Youth Orchestra (Orkestar jedne mladosti):'''''

__TOC__ 

= Handungs =
== FN Model 1922 ==

[[Image:FN M1922 L.jpg|thumb|none|300px|FN Model 1922 with wood grips - .32 ACP]]
[[Image:OJM-FN1910-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-FN1910-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-FN1910-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]

== Tokarev TT-33 ==

[[Image:TT-33-Wartime.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Tokarev TT-33 - 7.62x25mm Tokarev. Pre-1947 version.]]
[[Image:OJM-TT-33-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-TT-33-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-TT-33-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]

== Walther PPK ==

[[Image:PPKNazi1.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Early Waffenamt marked Walther PPK. Note the differences: orange bakelite grips, lanyard ring, smaller rear sight, grooved top, and irregular front - 7.65x17mm Auto (.32 ACP)]]
[[Image:OJM-W-PP-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Walther P38 ==

[[Image:P38.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Walther P38 pistol - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:OJM-W-P38-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-W-P38-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-W-P38-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-W-P38-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-W-P38-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]

= Submachine Guns =
== MP40 ==

[[Image:MP40Side.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP40 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:OJM-MP40-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-MP40-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|]]

= Rifles =
== Karabiner 98k ==
Both German and Partisan forces use [[Karabiner 98k]] rifles.
[[Image:Karabiner-98K.jpg‎|thumb|450px|none|Karabiner 98k - 7.92x57mm]]
[[Image:OJM-MauesrR-01.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-MauesrR-02.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[Image:OJM-MauesrR-05.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

= Machine Guns =
== MG34 ==
[[MG34]]s are widely used by both German soldiers and partisans.
[[Image:mg-34.jpg|thumb|none|450px|MG34 with front and rear sights folded down - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[Image:OJM-MG34-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:OJM-MG34-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:OJM-MG34-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== ZB26 Light Machine Gun ==

[[Image:ZB-26.jpg|thumb|none|450px|ZB26 Light Machine Gun - 7.92x57mm]]
[[Image:OJM-ZB26-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

= Hand grenades =
== Model 39 Eihandgranate ==

[[Image:M39_Eihandgranate.JPG|thumb|none|150px|The Model 39 Eihandgranate hand grenade]]
[[Image:OJM-MkHG-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

= Other Weapons =

== 122 mm howitzer M1938 (M-30) ==

[[Image:OJM-ZIS-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== BRDM-2 ==

[[Image:OJM-BVP-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Tank T-55 ==

[[Image:OJM-T72-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Drama]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:Yugoslavian Produced]]

Talk:Carnivores

2015-07-07T19:07:02Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Rifle */

==Rifle==
I looked all over, and wasn't able to find a match for that rifle, but it looks very much like a Dragunov or a variant, but that stock... I'm not sure. Any help? I'm positive the handguard has had the "holes" edited out, but again, maybe I'm wrong. --[[User:Clonehunter|Clonehunter]] ([[User talk:Clonehunter|talk]]) 00:28, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

:It's one of the civilian Tigr versions. A Tigr-03 would be the closest, if not, the exact match, judging from a little snooping around. The (''Monte Carlo'' style) solid hunting stock, handguard without vents and the shortened carbine barrel all [http://www.dragunov.net/tiger/tigr_464_vmak_500x.jpg match up pretty well]. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 03:27, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

::Oh, thanks a lot! Aah, that looks familiar, but otherwise I didn't know anything about it. And so nothing in the image was really modified. But the Tigr versions don't seem to be listed on the site (Or rather it just redirects to SVD Dragunov). --[[User:Clonehunter|Clonehunter]] ([[User talk:Clonehunter|talk]]) 10:29, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

:::Sans the, frankly, relatively rare Mone Carlo styled stock, and a longer barrel the Tigr image on the site is pretty representative for the type 3 model (chambered in 7.62x54R). In fact, despite lacking a scope, [http://www.orb2000.ru/files/tigr_03.jpg this image] seems to be an almost exact match of the in-game's sniper rifle. Interestingly, the newest HD remake also [http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/carnivores/images/a/a0/Sniper_rifle.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131222042252 features a sniper rifle], though this time it is a high caliber bolt action, seemingly based on the [http://www.imfdb.org/images/2/2c/AW50_%28Latest_Version%29.jpg AW50 rifle]. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 11:43, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

::::I have yet to get the new one, but that's a pretty neat find. As for the Tigr, where were they most prominent? Action Forms is a Ukrainian developer. I wonder if they actually obtained one of the rifles or, since they don't model the weapon, did they just use an image of the weapon they found somewhere. In which case, my other finalist for the shotgun was actually a [[Baikal MP-133]] with a heat shield, which also somewhat fits AF's origins. The small image and the fact we can only see the top of the weapon makes it a bit difficult to be sure. Naturally, I don't know if the MP-133s are ever seen with Heat shields. --[[User:Clonehunter|Clonehunter]] ([[User talk:Clonehunter|talk]]) 12:05, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

:::::Tigr rifles entered serial production, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragunov_sniper_rifle#Commercial_variants according to Wikipedia], in 1992. Technically, commercial Dragunovs in form of the Tigr series were somewhere from the 80s, perhaps mid-to-late 70s (not entirely sure), but due to USSR gun laws, these were very limited in production. Primary market for Tigr rifles, as with many Russian arms, is the alluring American civilian market (hence the year serial production went full steam), but they are still very rare. Seems like [http://www.dragunov.net/tiger.html most rifles on the US market] come with either the original wooden thumb hole stock or the new, synthetic military style stock. The Monte Carlo styled wooden stocks are comparatively rare, and to be honest, all of the steadily available examples of this configuration come from promotional material or gun shows.

:::::Technically there ''is'' a possibility the development team, or someone within, had an experience with the weapon, considering the ownership of semi automatic firearms isn't prohibited in Ukraine (at least from what I've checked, again, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Ukraine on Wikipedia]), but I find that ''highly'' doubtful. In fact, considering how much aberrations stand between the rather generic in-game model and the selection screen picture, I'd wager the wasn't much connection between them during the development, and that later probably came into consideration long after the models were made. What I'm saying is, instead of basing the models on existing firearms, they probably just found the generic firearms to serve as best representative for the in-game variants.

:::::Regarding the shotgun, it's mostly surely a Mossberg, at least on the selection screen. In fact, I'd be damned, but I'm pretty sure it's ''the'' exact same picture used. The Baikal connection is an interesting proposal, so I tried to find as best of a match as I could, and this is the [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/shotgun/sh48/mp133-1.jpg best I could do] with. I don't believe the shotgun was ever serially manufactured with a heat shield, due to it being (intended, at least) a strictly civilian firearm. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:07, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

Talk:Carnivores

2015-07-07T15:43:01Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Rifle */

Talk:Carnivores

2015-07-07T07:27:04Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Rifle */

Talk:Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

2015-01-18T18:41:27Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Best item in MGS history */

== About the 'new' Frankenguns policy in MGS ==
(moved from [[Talk:Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes]])

This thing has been festering longer than people think. I just discovered that the Konami's Frankengunning of MGS has been in effect since 2012, beginning with Metal Gear Solid - Social Ops, a 3D mobile game that released exclusively in Japan for the iPhone and Android smartphones.

From MGS wiki as of November 5 2014:

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_Social_Ops#Behind_the_scenes

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_V_weapons_and_equipment#Behind_the_scenes

"MGS SOP" involves gameplay/re-enactment from the games Metal Gear Solid 3 - Snake Eater and Metal Gear Solid - Peace Walker. Social Ops was similar to the Metal Gear Acid series in terms of character movement and its use of items and weapons via trading cards.

For cards with rendered art (art not pulled straight from a game) - with few exceptions - the weapons are replaced with a counter-part from MGSV. For example, Old Snake from Metal Gear Solid 4 is seen holding a SVG-76 instead of a AK-102 or a AM-69 instead of a M4 Custom, and Peace Walker-era Snake is seen holding a AM-69 rather than a M16A1.

Also several newer promotional renders, along with several older ones (i.e. promotional images of Peace Walker) of previous games have had their previously real life weapons replaced with a Metal Gear Solid V equivalent.
For example - as stated previously; Big Boss with M16A1 from Peace Walker and Old Snake with M4 custom from MGS4 are now both shown holding AM Rifle Type 69 instead.
This is also seen on promotional images with The Legacy Collection that was released in Summer of 2013 worldwide. For example; In new HD render art of Solid Snake is seen with a Wu Silent Pistol in his holster instead of a Mk23 SOCOM.

The reasons for the changes are yet to be stated. It's claimed that Konami had gotten in legal problems with gun licencing for exploiting loopholes via Airsoft company Tokyo Marui partnership. Therefore they cannot use designs patented by major weapons manufacturers and can only use non-conflicting designs provided by Tokyo Marui. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 12:49, 5 November 2014 (EST)

:As I said before, call bullshit that Konami couldn't get image rights to use real life guns or that the AK variant is copyrighted. Is Russia knocking on Konami's doors about the image? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:01, 5 November 2014 (EST)

::This is all getting pretty strange. How do you use an "airsoft loophole"? Claim that your ingame guns are just modelled after airsoft guns? Besides, wasn't there a court case that decided that "M4" is now a generic term (like "M1911") that can't be copyrighted/trademarked? Why can't Old Snake keep his, then? Did Konami face a major lawsuit? Or were licensing fees getting too expensive after Peace Walker? Or is Konami overreacting in some way? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 21:51, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Combination of gross overreaction and licensing expenses IMO. Though, it’s more likely that it’s MGS4’s – and not PW’s - gun licensing that came around to bite Konami in the ass.

If you ask me, '''''the whole thing could very well be connected to something in Japanese law that we might not know about.'''''

And yes, the “airsoft loophole” is ''"allegedly"'' a thing in Japan. It works by having some Airsoft manufacturer in sponsor-/partnership with the work in question, and if somebody starts blowing whistles they just can defend themselves by saying that they are promoting (Airsoft Manufacturer’s) product(s) and not actual firearm company's. (Ridiculous, I know.)

One of the most well-known exploiters of this has been Capcom’s Resident Evil/Bio Hazard. RE and Tokyo Marui have been connected since RE2, with partnership beginning since Capcom commissioned Tokyo Marui to release an Airsoft replicas of the in-game variations of the Desert Eagle wielded by Leon S. Kennedy. [[Resident Evil 5]] is good a good example of “the loophole” in full force. If you take a good look of the RE5 arsenal and are aware what’s in Tokyo Marui’s catalog around 2009, you’ll notice that all the '''non'''-franken-/heavily edited guns have Tokyo Marui counterparts – with some exceptions. Same deal with RE Relevations 1, notably featuring the Smith & Wesson 3566 under the guise of Tokyo Marui’s “PC356” replica of the aforementioned pistol. Although judging from RE6, the “all frankenguns policy” has affected RE as well. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 13:40, 11 November 2014 (EST)

:Then what about the gun designs that can't be copyrighted/trademarked, like the M4, the M1911, or AK-style rifles? It does speak of "overreaction" as well. And what's keeping Konami from paying the licensing fees again? I don't think they're in financial trouble like Capcom and Sega currently are.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:45, 27 November 2014 (EST)

==Unknown SMG==
Anybody know what these are?

[[File:MGS5Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:05, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:Considering all footage shown so far, showing relatively narrow arsenal assets, I'm willing to say pretty surely that it's the same MP9 as in Ground Zeroes. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:24, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

But whats the point of holding them sideways like that especially with the ejection port facing up.--[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 17:40, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:I assume however, it could be held sideways because they are so densely packed together, using it as a method of evading to shower their mates with hot brass. I'm puzzled as to why they are holding them ejection port upwards, but it could be some recoil controlling technique perhaps even a depiction of the C.A.R. technique. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 18:03, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::You are thinking about it too much, I would highly doubt that anyone involved in this decision has even heard of the CAR technique. My guess is that they are doing it because someone thinks it looks cool, particularly if you get to have the cases spraying upwards into the air showing off some nice physics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::I don't know about the guns, but the stuff on the soldiers backs seem to resemble the fuel canisters for the M2 Flamethrower or a similar flamethrower. What I do know is that whatever the make, the backpack is undeniably a flamethrower weapon. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:50, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think they are, more likely they are air tanks as they appear to be wearing breathing apparatus. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:39, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Found another gun image, it's from the last few seconds of the VGA trailer:
:::[[File:Pp12.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:::Don't know if its the same gun or a different gun, but still, hope I helped. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

The The Phantom Pain and Ground Zero is the same game. They've just announced that. So one of these pages has got to go [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:47, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:The last I read (earlier today) "Ground Zeroes" is the prologue to "The Phantom Pain" which taken together make up MGS5, but they would not confirm whether or not they were shipping it as one game or two separate ones. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::Well, I advocated patience and just waiting for official word earlier, I don't know why people are in such a rush. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:22, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Yeah, here's a bit of a problem, though: Konami told GameSpot that they are two separate games. Jay Boor, director of PR, stated they are two separate games, and the official MGS facebook page (which is owned by Konami and Kojima Productions) not only stated they were two different games, they even quoted Kojima's twitter on it. We keep them separate. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 20:46, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::If they truly are separate games, then why does the new trailer contain footage from BOTH teasers and titled it MGS5 The Phantom Pain? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::If I recall correctly, ''Peace Walker'' and ''Portable Ops'' also contained footage from ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' in their debut trailers, so I doubt it would mean much. Even if it did, it's likely that they are somewhat connected, but still separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::I don't ever remember they using footage from MGS3 to advertise that the final product will look like Portable Ops or Peacewalker. The recent trailer did not even state they were two separate games. It didn't say Ground Zeroes once, it only titled itself as MGS5 The Phantom Pain. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:58, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::Portable Ops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0NUg0DLMpQ
:::::::Peace Walker TGS2009 Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b5trPeM9wI
:::::::Both of these trailers showed footage from ''MGS3'', at least at the beginning of the trailer. And the trailer may not have stated they were two separate games, but Konami and other official sources stated they are. Heck, even Kojima stated that the sequence he showed in TPP was actually the tutorial at the beginning of a game, despite claiming that Ground Zeroes was the prologue. The only way to claim both to be true is if they are indeed separate games. And besides, Kojima also stated that both Rising and Peace Walker were Metal Gear Solid 5 in interviews, even though back then it was clear as day they were separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 23:16, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I am still holding out that it's all misdirection on part of the creator. It seems odd to market 2 games at the same time. Are both going to be released at the same time? in one box? a year apart? There's a lot of questions from a production standpoint [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:22, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::::And going back to the portable games trailers with MGS3 footage. Those were the Japanese trailers and the MGS3 footages serve as a jump off point. If you were to compare advertising like that to these games, it would be like watching a trailer of MGS5 starting off with a couple scenes from MGS4, 2 completely different games but obviously has connections to each other since they exist in the same universe. You can't argue because the portable games did it so it makes sense for the new MGS5 trailer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:26, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::::It's not odd at all that they'd market two completely different games at the same time. Heck, Lords of Shadows 2 actually marketed both the console game and the portable game at the exact same time in E3 2012, and Epic Mickey 2 also did the same with two games that were completely different. And misdirection or not, I sincerely doubt Kojima'd refer to the opening scene of TPP as being the tutorial to the game AFTER marketing it as the same as Ground Zeroes. You can't have a tutorial level after the main prologue of a game. Did we have that in the Plant Chapter of MGS2? Operation Snake Eater in MGS3? Any of the levels after Liquid Sun in MGS4? Any of the levels after the intro to Peace Walker? There is a way for games to be separate and the same at the exact same time though: Think Sonic 4. Separate releases, same game. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 12:07, 21 April 2013 (EDT)

==Gun wish list==
Here's some guns I hope will come for the game since Kojima confirmed The Phantom Pain will take place around 1984. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:52, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

The first is a Glock and not the Glock 18.
Galil

CZ75

UZI

ASP9

M14

AK74

FAL

Valmet series

Browning HP

VP70

Beretta 93R

SIG SG 540

XL64E5

FAMAS

More M16 variants

Daewoo K1 / K2

Mini-14

SA Vz.58

AR-18

Different AK variants

Guns that I personally predict would be useable: --[[User:Btgr|Btgr]] ([[User talk:Btgr|talk]]) 18:58, 6 July 2013 (EDT)

Makarov PM

Stetchkin APS

M1911A1

Any .357 Magnum revolver made by Smith & Wesson, Colt or Ruger

SPAS-12

Lee-Enfield

SKS

PPSh-41

Sterling SMG

BXP or Skorpion

AKS-74U

GP-25 (for the AK47 variant)

M203 (for the SAR-80)

FN MAG-58

PKM

RPG-7

M72 LAW

FIM-92 Stinger

RGD-5 or M67

Heckler & Koch G11

Railgun

=New Red band trailer=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gEqmkduIeMU

:Am the only one, but are there quite a lot of hybrid firearms on display here? Take a closer look at those AKs, both the 7.62 and 5.56 versions. AK-74 stand-ins have a ring sight mounted on the back of the receiver, and [http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/14607241/mgs5_phantom_pain.0_cinema_640.0.jpg 7.62 ones have a bizarre wooden front grip, AKS-74U patterned back sights along with a pretty western looking flash hider]. Now those are some jive-ass Kalashnikovs if I ever laid my very one eyes upon one. Is anyone a bit more versed as to why Kojima suddenly went for this bizarre change? --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:26, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

I'll admit it is unusual, but at least they look like they can exist unlike Resident Evil 6 where all guns seemed like frankenguns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:58, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

=Getting the feeling of anachronism =
I wonder, with the recent trailer, a lot of the tech and gear are a bit anachronistic for the 80s like Skull face's men. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:19, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
:Dudes got a robot arm, I don't think historical accuracy is a big deal.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 20:49, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
::That's a BS argument. If that's the excuse, why not all guns be fictional and they start using halo plasma rifles and phasers? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Kojima has said that MGS takes place in an alternate time line from the real world, so there being anachronisms in weapons and technology really shouldn't matter all that much, I mean hell, Peace Walker had some weapons that weren't made until the 80's and I believe some that weren't made until the 90's, so it's a little late for the "This is anachronistic!" arguments.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 23:08, 24 September 2013 (EDT)
::::Kojima has confirmed that ''"Weapons will be based off of weapons found in the 1980's"''. --[[User:Btgr|Btgr]] ([[User talk:Btgr|talk]]) 04:31, 29 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::Let's hope they actually ARE real guns and not completely fictionalized guns, as Ground Zeroes is not giving me good hopes on that (like the WU gun). I mean, with Rising, its completely acceptable, since it took place well into the future of not only our time, but also in-universe. Considering games taking place both before and after MGSV (both GZ and TPP) used real life weaponry, going the Resident Evil route is jarring, especially considering the Fox Engine was meant to bring out more realism. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 09:49, 24 November 2013 (EST)
I can agree. The fact that MGS4 had so many well made real life models makes this whole deal very odd to me. Why would they have made these franken guns instead of the actual weapons in the 80's? [[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 23:56, 11 July 2014 (EDT)

= Single Action Army and other guns =

Not much to go off but Ocelot's gun does not look like an SAA at all. It looks like some kind of top breaker. Do you think the guns in this one are going to be generic instead of actual models like they've been before?--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] ([[User talk:Acepeacemaker|talk]])
:I would agree that it looks nothing like a Colt, more like a Webley, but it isn't a perfect match for that either. As far as I can tell every one of these weapons is a hybrid or fabrication of some sort. The AK is the same shape as an AK-47, but every single part of it is wrong in some way. The rifle used by Skull Face's guys is pretty close to a real gun, as everything up the the rear of the handguard is a SIG SG 550, but ahead of that it goes to hell (looks a bit like an FNC from that point on). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:12, 12 June 2013 (EDT)
::Yeah back to the AK, in the shot I took of Snake disarming a guy, that AK has the elevated rear sight like a Galil [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:33, 12 June 2013 (EDT)
:::That AK is such a mess it is ridiculous. if you look at the receiver it actually appears to be partly based on that of an FN FAL (left side reflected on both sides of the AK) with an AKM dust cover with an AKS-74U rear sight. Added to this you have the weird straight post front sight (which I think I recognise from something but can't place), the slotted flash hider which looks a bit like a shortened Druganov, a vent-less handguard which looks like it has an M16A2 handguard texture applied to it, and a gas block like nothing I have seen on an AK. Also, unless they are at different game build stages there are two different rifles here, as the one with the rear sight at the top of the back cover has a Bakelite style 5.45×39mm style mag with the shallower curve. The guns are so f'ed up in this game so far that I almost get the feeling that they weren't actually designed for it, they just took existing models from other games and messed them up in the hopes that nobody would notice. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:22, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

:::I took a look around at some AK variants and the front sight post that you mentioned you couldn't place looks like it's from the AK-74. Could also be taken from the PKM. Take a look at the entry for [[9th Company]] and compare --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 05:09, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think so, the AK-74 front sight has a sloped back and a cut out in the middle, whereas this is vertical front and back and has no cut out. It also attaches to the barrel in a different way to any of the AK type sights. I've since remembered the thing it reminds me of, which is the front sight used on the original Gerat 06 prototype. I highly doubt this is what they deliberately based it on as this is such an obscure weapon, but this is what it reminded me of when I first saw it:[[File:Mauser Gerat 06 Early.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Mauser Gerat 06 - 7.92×33mm Kurz]] --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:05, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::I just noticed, it also looks a lot like the front sight on the Knorr-Bremse paratrooper rifle prototype as seen [http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6949/knorrbremse1pz5.jpg here], the groove up the side is very similar. Both this and the Gerat 06 front sight are hooded though, although if they just used a random side on image they found as a reference you might not necessarily realise and model it as open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:26, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

::Yeah, the AK (in-game name is currently SVG-76) is a mingling of numerous AK-variants. Rear sights altering between the Valmet/Galil/Vektor variants and the AKMSU ones, magazines altering between the long 7.62 ones and 5.45 bakelite ones and so on. And since the AK is (arguably) inspired by StG 44, it may just also borrow elements from other weapons notably inspired by StG 44. This is probably just to have a "universal in-game AK". The game - from what I understand - takes place in handful of hotspots of early-mid 1980's and therefore it'd be tricky for armed groups - ranging from African Guerillas to Soviet Ground Forces at their technological peak - to reliably have the very specific variant of certain firearm in use, as there tends to be tiny variations from country to country. Though, why do the Soviets have the Valmet/Galil sights on their AK variants? I thought Mikhail Kalashnikov and majority of AK users in Soviet/Russian army hated the Valmet style rear sights!? [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 03:04, 18 August 2014 (EDT)

Let's hope the final product is a little different than advertised. In previous games, the weapons were slightly altered from early footage. In a way, the different weapon designs give off a sense of familiar yet alternate view of the period that the game takes place in. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:43, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

Anyway, you think the revolve might be a Nagant? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:45, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

= Punished Snakes Camo =

can anyone identify the camo snake uses in the phantom pain trailer ? looks like tiger stripe but is more arid, but not the same as the desert tiger stripe that Drebin wears

cheers

[[User:Sike|Sike]] ([[User talk:Sike|talk]]) 18:35, 3 May 2014 (EDT)

Drebin wears Desert DPM by the looks of it. Snake has Desert Tiger Stripe. Also it's Big Boss not Snake.
[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 23:52, 11 July 2014 (EDT)

yes i know he is Big Boss, but he is also refered to as Venom Snake(latest e3) and Kaz calls him Snake in the trailer. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] ([[User talk:Sike|talk]]) 08:28, 23 August 2014 (EDT)

:Eh, we'll just keep calling him Big Boss, that's who he is the rest of the time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:05, 10 January 2015 (EST)

=Finished product=

So from all the recent game footages, it looks like all these franken guns are going to remain. Which is unfortunate. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:20, 13 August 2014 (EDT)

:Much too bad, really. MGS1 started the trend of authentic firearms in the series, and now we've jumped straight into the realm of fictional firearms. Of course, the likes of the Foxhound unit in the first game were certainly fantastical, but the modelled-from-real-life hardware gave it a certain anchor to reality. There were certainly lots of period-accurate firearms that Kojima and his team could have modelled for this game, but for no reason I can fathom, historical accuracy for firearms seems to no longer be a priority for this series, leaving us fans of authentic weaponry in games out in the cold for this title. It makes me wonder if Kojima will also use fictional guns for his upcoming [[Silent Hill]] game starring [[Norman Reedus]], which is another Konami series that has generally used realistically-modelled guns. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 20:04, 14 August 2014 (EDT)

::It's not even just Kojima. It's becoming a trend for games to feature mostly fictional guns. Look at Resident Evil and GTA. Both game series featured guns modeled on real life counterparts for the most part in the past. It's a shame and I hope this trend doesn't take over most games. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:::Well, to be fair, in Peace Walker, Mother Base invented virtually every weapon that would be invented for the next thirty years, so it does ''sort of'' make sense... [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:49, 19 December 2014 (EST)

:::: If it's any consolation, somebody will probably mod the game to add real weapons when it comes to PC. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 17:12, 19 December 2014 (EST)

:::::My theory is Ground Zeroes (and this, if it's similar) are actually a Grim And Adult story written by Huey about Big Boss. When he reads it he glares and goes YOU'RE FIRED and kicks Huey into the sea and that's why Huey isn't working for Big Boss when Otacon is born. Calling it now. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:16, 1 January 2015 (EST)

::::@Yocapo32 - you might be on to something. Ground Zeroes's FOX Engine has been recently cracked. http://dev.cra0kalo.com/?p=268 [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 04:33, 4 January 2015 (EST)

Well for the GTA series, most of the guns were pretty real. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:22, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:Yeah, I meant that GTA V didnt have real models, but the series did in the past. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:33, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

::Well, referring to the new Silent Hill game, Silent Hill doesn't really provide the player with any significant firepower (the MAC-10 in Silent Hill 3 was the only full auto weapon in the series so far), so I'm gonna guess that we'll be getting a hold of some kind of Beretta, or maybe a generic 1911. Heavier weapons might be generic shotguns or bolt action rifles, though. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 13:10, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:There was the MAC-11 in [[Silent Hill 4]]. But you didn't have direct control over that weapon. I was hoping that a Silent Hill game by Kojima would feature realistic capacities for more ingame guns (such as 15 rounds or more in a "wonder nine," like the S&W Sigma from the first game), but now that it looks like he's gone into fictional firearm territory for his flagship series that's unlikely now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 04:19, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

:The PMCs had the M4 and snake had a GSR right up until the release and then SBR SCAR-H's and snakes operator came out of no where... Hoping that is the case, but in yongs video, ocelots dudes still had the FNC frankengun that is paramount in every video so far... Really hoping, but worried, and think it might taint the game a little but if I have to deal with stupid guns...

Seriously, is it so hard for them to use real guns instead of inventing fictional ones? I mean the PSP game that came before all used real guns and that's a PSP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:44, 12 September 2014 (EDT)

After watching a new cutscene involving Quiet, I am just bothered by how they didn't animate a sling for Snake even in the cutscene? Seriously, it looks like it's glued to his side pouch [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:42, 25 September 2014 (EDT)

:Not quite sure, but I think this is largely due to cutscenes being animated in real-time, rather then being pre-rendered. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 01:33, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

I believe The revolvers Ocelot uses in the MGO trailer bare a strong resemblance to the Mateba 2006m Icould be wrong though http://img01.militaryblog.jp/usr/toyguncatalog/MATEBA-1s.jpg

We've already sorta ID the gun. It's pretty much the fictional URAGAN-5. He's even carrying the shotgun shells for the gun...Seriously I rolled my eyes that they couldn't give him back his SAAs. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:07, 1 January 2015 (EST)

:I feel this further supports my idea that this story is entirely in the imagination of the guy who thought putting an Easter island head and a chainsaw arm on a tank made any kind of sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:40, 2 January 2015 (EST)
:What are you talking about?

= Best item in MGS history =

Apparently this works like the playboy / book / magazine and cements that Mother Base is silly.

[[Image:MGS5-BestItem.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

I really hope this is in singleplayer. I will call it Lil' Boss. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:01, 10 January 2015 (EST)

:Did you play MGS4's multiplayer? Not only did they use books to distract other players for a brief time, there was also the very silly "Charm" skill, which you can see demonstrated [http://youtu.be/4GQV8AuMVRw here].

:Anyway, this concept of "cute stuffed animal used as a distraction" has had some real-life attempts based on it, such as disguising the muzzle of a cornershot weapon. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:17, 11 January 2015 (EST)

::I'm not sure if anyone's ever used that thing seriously, though. And generally you're not hoping your opponent will be tricked into petting the Cornershot. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 06:53, 18 January 2015 (EST)

:::Vietcong used to place explosives inside kids toys all the time during the Vietnam war, so it's not a massive departure from reality, (Here's hoping it's not just a distraction but can in fact be armed). [[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 12:57, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

::::Didn't Soviets also use toys to trick Afghan child soldiers into activating booby traps and such? It's been confirmed that atleast one section of the game takes place admist of Soviet war in Afghanistan and that child soldiers are to be featured in certain numbers. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 08:47, 18 January 2015 (EST)

:::::I'm not sure about deliberate usage of rigged toys specifically against child soldiers in Afghan, but the PFM-1 mine, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda#Toy-shaped_land_mines infamous for it's unassuming shape], has been known to have caused notorious causalities with unassuming children who associated the smooth and unconventional shape of the airdropped mine to a piece of a plastic toy. However, the shape and size of the object weren't dictated by a purposeful and vengeful Soviet anti-children doctrine, rather by unfortunate effects of aerodynamics. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 13:41, 18 January 2015 (EST)

Talk:List of firearms used by Russian Armed Forces

2014-10-29T23:00:44Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Stechkin APS */

I'm aware that as of 20:28, 24 July 2012, the page isn't finished; it's terribly late, and I'm going to continue working on it. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 20:29, 24 July 2012 (CDT)
::Hope you don't mind, I contributed a little bit, mended some years into more precise and (to my knowledge, at least) correct ones.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 02:44, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
:::That's perfectly fine, thank you; I was kind of hoping to get some contributions. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 11:11, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
:::Could we change the Cyrillic names to Latin alphabet? They're not really that useful in their current form to a non-Russian speaker. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
::::I only used the Cyrillic names because they would be more authentic to the Russian forces. They can be changed fairly easily, though. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 11:12, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
:::::Well, we could refer to all these weapons by their official GRAU index designations. Though personally, I like the Russian Cyrillic names.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 11:50, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
::::::Since this is an American website with a primarily English-speaking user base, the English (or Latin, whatever) alphabet would be more preferable. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:37, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
:::::::Do you want the Cyrillic Anglicized or do you want straight up English translations of the Cyrillic titles? --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 08:39, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

It's only called the Russian Federation recently. It's changed named overall at least 3 times in the past century [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:29, 24 July 2012 (CDT)
:Yes, I'm aware of that, and I considered it after I constructed the article. A name change would be fine... Russian Armed Forces? --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 11:10, 25 July, 2012 (CDT)

Makarov PM is still in service. And the next couple of decades, it will doesn't remove from service [[User:Bednardos|Bednardos]] 19:05, 25 July, 2012 (CDT)
:My mistake, I fixed it already.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 11:52, 25 July 2012 (CDT)

== AO-63 picture? ==

So we've got a picture of the AO-63 now? I thought no one knew what it looked like except for the designers and the people running the trials. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 17:36, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
:That isn't an AO-63, it is an AO-38. This was a prototype for the balance recoil system used in the AK-107, and is a single barrel design which is totally unrelated to the AO-63. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:49, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
::OH, that makes sense. It's just that in the smaller version of the picture, it looks like it has two barrels (I didn't view the larger version). [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 17:55, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

==RPK==
Is the original 7.26x39 RPK still in service?--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 17:53, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
:I didn't include it because I wasn't sure, but I think they're at least phasing the original models out of front-line service. Someone with a little more knowledge on that particular weapon might be able to help. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 19:00, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

I thinks the 7.62x39 RPK is still used in limited numbers, but i'm not 100% sure.
But one thing I am sure is that the 5.45x39 RPK is still used today. I saw some recent pictures of russian soldiers using them in exercices. --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 16:19, 24 December 2012 (CDT)

==AK-105==
I've read rumors of the AK-105 was selected to replace the AKS-74U, but haven't found anything conclusive to verify it. If anyone knows anything and has a trustworthy enough source to back it, please speak up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 12:14, 11 January 2013 (EST)

==Vityaz-SN==

I added the [[PP-19-01 Vityaz]] submachine gun two weeks ago. If any of its specifications are incorrect please someone correct them. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 13:11, 19 July 2014 (EDT)
:<strike>Could someone clarify it please? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 05:51, 26 July 2014 (EDT)</strike> (done)

==Stechkin APS==
Since the [[Stechkin APS]] page indicates "(1951–1975)" and the [[OTs-33 Pernach]] page qualifies the APS as "obsolete", then how come is the APS stated to still be in service? Anyway, I guess the Pernach and the [[GSh-18]] should be added to the main page, shouldn't they?. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:36, 3 October 2014 (EDT)
:While APS was surpassed in regular service by the AKS-74U in its originally intended role as a crewman's right hand, it remains in limited usage as a relatively popular sidearm for the special military and police forces. In fact, both APS and OC-33 complement each other in active service within these branches. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 05:36, 29 October 2014 (EDT)

Talk:List of firearms used by Russian Armed Forces

2014-10-29T09:36:12Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Stechkin APS */

I'm aware that as of 20:28, 24 July 2012, the page isn't finished; it's terribly late, and I'm going to continue working on it. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 20:29, 24 July 2012 (CDT)
::Hope you don't mind, I contributed a little bit, mended some years into more precise and (to my knowledge, at least) correct ones.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 02:44, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
:::That's perfectly fine, thank you; I was kind of hoping to get some contributions. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 11:11, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
:::Could we change the Cyrillic names to Latin alphabet? They're not really that useful in their current form to a non-Russian speaker. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
::::I only used the Cyrillic names because they would be more authentic to the Russian forces. They can be changed fairly easily, though. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 11:12, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
:::::Well, we could refer to all these weapons by their official GRAU index designations. Though personally, I like the Russian Cyrillic names.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 11:50, 25 July 2012 (CDT)
::::::Since this is an American website with a primarily English-speaking user base, the English (or Latin, whatever) alphabet would be more preferable. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:37, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
:::::::Do you want the Cyrillic Anglicized or do you want straight up English translations of the Cyrillic titles? --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 08:39, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

It's only called the Russian Federation recently. It's changed named overall at least 3 times in the past century [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:29, 24 July 2012 (CDT)
:Yes, I'm aware of that, and I considered it after I constructed the article. A name change would be fine... Russian Armed Forces? --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 11:10, 25 July, 2012 (CDT)

Makarov PM is still in service. And the next couple of decades, it will doesn't remove from service [[User:Bednardos|Bednardos]] 19:05, 25 July, 2012 (CDT)
:My mistake, I fixed it already.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 11:52, 25 July 2012 (CDT)

== AO-63 picture? ==

So we've got a picture of the AO-63 now? I thought no one knew what it looked like except for the designers and the people running the trials. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 17:36, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
:That isn't an AO-63, it is an AO-38. This was a prototype for the balance recoil system used in the AK-107, and is a single barrel design which is totally unrelated to the AO-63. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:49, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
::OH, that makes sense. It's just that in the smaller version of the picture, it looks like it has two barrels (I didn't view the larger version). [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 17:55, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

==RPK==
Is the original 7.26x39 RPK still in service?--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 17:53, 26 July 2012 (CDT)
:I didn't include it because I wasn't sure, but I think they're at least phasing the original models out of front-line service. Someone with a little more knowledge on that particular weapon might be able to help. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 19:00, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

I thinks the 7.62x39 RPK is still used in limited numbers, but i'm not 100% sure.
But one thing I am sure is that the 5.45x39 RPK is still used today. I saw some recent pictures of russian soldiers using them in exercices. --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 16:19, 24 December 2012 (CDT)

==AK-105==
I've read rumors of the AK-105 was selected to replace the AKS-74U, but haven't found anything conclusive to verify it. If anyone knows anything and has a trustworthy enough source to back it, please speak up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 12:14, 11 January 2013 (EST)

==Vityaz-SN==

I added the [[PP-19-01 Vityaz]] submachine gun two weeks ago. If any of its specifications are incorrect please someone correct them. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 13:11, 19 July 2014 (EDT)
:<strike>Could someone clarify it please? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 05:51, 26 July 2014 (EDT)</strike> (done)

==Stechkin APS==
Since the [[Stechkin APS]] page indicates "(1951–1975)" and the [[OTs-33 Pernach]] page qualifies the APS as "obsolete", then how come is the APS stated to still be in service? Anyway, I guess the Pernach and the [[GSh-18]] should be added to the main page, shouldn't they?. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:36, 3 October 2014 (EDT)
:While APS was surpassed in regular service by the AKS-74U in it's originally intended role as a crewman's right hand, it remains in limited usage as a relatively popular sidearm for the special military and police forces. In fact, both APS and OC-33 complement each other in active service within these branches. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 05:36, 29 October 2014 (EDT)

Talk:Call of Duty Online

2014-10-12T13:35:10Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Chain gun confusion */ new section

==Availability==
Is this going to be available to users outside of Red China? Would we have any users who could actually access this? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 02:05, 21 January 2013 (EST)

Well I currently see three different options: Wait for a user from China to show up, wait for the COD wiki to upload screens, or I could screencap youtube gameplay videos when the game is released.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 02:08, 21 January 2013 (EST)
:1) Is this website avaiable in Red China? 2) We hate it when other wikis steal from us, we're not going to steal from them, 3) Youtube is banned in Red China. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 02:16, 21 January 2013 (EST)

Then the only other option is to wait and see if it is released in the West.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 02:28, 21 January 2013 (EST)
:So is this finally coming out in the west? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 10:27, 5 August 2014 (EDT)
According to Activision, they will release it worldwide depending on the success of the game so we might have to wait pretty much until Activision gives the word. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] ([[User talk:Kenny99|talk]]) 20:17, 5 August 2014 (EDT)
:Well, the page is being updated, so someone has played it. (And I doubt we have any users from Red China.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 01:30, 6 August 2014 (EDT)
==FN FAL Screenshot==
The third person screenshot of the weapon in Killhouse is the L86A1, not the FAL. Check the L86 pics in it's respective section, the bipod is removed. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 18:10, 24 January 2013 (EST)

== "AK117" ==

[[File:CODOnlineAK117.jpg|501px]]

That's the "AK117" in-game. Any idea on what's this weapon? To me it looks a bit like the Bulgarian [[Arsenal AR-M1]]. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 17:46, 27 August 2014 (EDT)
:This is going to seem like a silly question, but can you actually play this? Is it out? If so, can you upload some caps? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 17:50, 27 August 2014 (EDT)
::Unfortunately no, I don't have access to the game; I took these two screencaps from a YouTube video, we can probably do the same for the other weapons. The game is technically out, but as an open beta only available in China, and it is constantly being updated with new content and weapons being added. Anyway, do you have any idea about this assault rifle? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 18:01, 27 August 2014 (EDT)
:::I guess it turned out to be an AK-102 (even though the in-game magazine's appearance is similar to that of the AR-M1). --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 05:53, 14 September 2014 (EDT)

== Chain gun confusion ==

I'm not sure about the inclusion of the M230 in the game (though I assume it's logical if they kept the AH-64 recalling killstreak in the game), but the screencap allegedly showcasing is very obviously depicting a Mi-28 mounted 2A42.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 09:35, 12 October 2014 (EDT)

Talk:Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

2014-09-26T05:33:03Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Finished product */

==Unknown SMG==
Anybody know what these are?

[[File:MGS5Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:05, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:Considering all footage shown so far, showing relatively narrow arsenal assets, I'm willing to say pretty surely that it's the same MP9 as in Ground Zeroes. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:24, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

But whats the point of holding them sideways like that especially with the ejection port facing up.--[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 17:40, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:I assume however, it could be held sideways because they are so densely packed together, using it as a method of evading to shower their mates with hot brass. I'm puzzled as to why they are holding them ejection port upwards, but it could be some recoil controlling technique perhaps even a depiction of the C.A.R. technique. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 18:03, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::You are thinking about it too much, I would highly doubt that anyone involved in this decision has even heard of the CAR technique. My guess is that they are doing it because someone thinks it looks cool, particularly if you get to have the cases spraying upwards into the air showing off some nice physics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::I don't know about the guns, but the stuff on the soldiers backs seem to resemble the fuel canisters for the M2 Flamethrower or a similar flamethrower. What I do know is that whatever the make, the backpack is undeniably a flamethrower weapon. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:50, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think they are, more likely they are air tanks as they appear to be wearing breathing apparatus. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:39, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Found another gun image, it's from the last few seconds of the VGA trailer:
:::[[File:Pp12.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:::Don't know if its the same gun or a different gun, but still, hope I helped. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

The The Phantom Pain and Ground Zero is the same game. They've just announced that. So one of these pages has got to go [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:47, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:The last I read (earlier today) "Ground Zeroes" is the prologue to "The Phantom Pain" which taken together make up MGS5, but they would not confirm whether or not they were shipping it as one game or two separate ones. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::Well, I advocated patience and just waiting for official word earlier, I don't know why people are in such a rush. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:22, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Yeah, here's a bit of a problem, though: Konami told GameSpot that they are two separate games. Jay Boor, director of PR, stated they are two separate games, and the official MGS facebook page (which is owned by Konami and Kojima Productions) not only stated they were two different games, they even quoted Kojima's twitter on it. We keep them separate. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 20:46, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::If they truly are separate games, then why does the new trailer contain footage from BOTH teasers and titled it MGS5 The Phantom Pain? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::If I recall correctly, ''Peace Walker'' and ''Portable Ops'' also contained footage from ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' in their debut trailers, so I doubt it would mean much. Even if it did, it's likely that they are somewhat connected, but still separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::I don't ever remember they using footage from MGS3 to advertise that the final product will look like Portable Ops or Peacewalker. The recent trailer did not even state they were two separate games. It didn't say Ground Zeroes once, it only titled itself as MGS5 The Phantom Pain. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:58, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::Portable Ops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0NUg0DLMpQ
:::::::Peace Walker TGS2009 Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b5trPeM9wI
:::::::Both of these trailers showed footage from ''MGS3'', at least at the beginning of the trailer. And the trailer may not have stated they were two separate games, but Konami and other official sources stated they are. Heck, even Kojima stated that the sequence he showed in TPP was actually the tutorial at the beginning of a game, despite claiming that Ground Zeroes was the prologue. The only way to claim both to be true is if they are indeed separate games. And besides, Kojima also stated that both Rising and Peace Walker were Metal Gear Solid 5 in interviews, even though back then it was clear as day they were separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 23:16, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I am still holding out that it's all misdirection on part of the creator. It seems odd to market 2 games at the same time. Are both going to be released at the same time? in one box? a year apart? There's a lot of questions from a production standpoint [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:22, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::::And going back to the portable games trailers with MGS3 footage. Those were the Japanese trailers and the MGS3 footages serve as a jump off point. If you were to compare advertising like that to these games, it would be like watching a trailer of MGS5 starting off with a couple scenes from MGS4, 2 completely different games but obviously has connections to each other since they exist in the same universe. You can't argue because the portable games did it so it makes sense for the new MGS5 trailer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:26, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::::It's not odd at all that they'd market two completely different games at the same time. Heck, Lords of Shadows 2 actually marketed both the console game and the portable game at the exact same time in E3 2012, and Epic Mickey 2 also did the same with two games that were completely different. And misdirection or not, I sincerely doubt Kojima'd refer to the opening scene of TPP as being the tutorial to the game AFTER marketing it as the same as Ground Zeroes. You can't have a tutorial level after the main prologue of a game. Did we have that in the Plant Chapter of MGS2? Operation Snake Eater in MGS3? Any of the levels after Liquid Sun in MGS4? Any of the levels after the intro to Peace Walker? There is a way for games to be separate and the same at the exact same time though: Think Sonic 4. Separate releases, same game. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 12:07, 21 April 2013 (EDT)

==Gun wish list==
Here's some guns I hope will come for the game since Kojima confirmed The Phantom Pain will take place around 1984. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:52, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

The first is a Glock and not the Glock 18.
Galil

CZ75

UZI

ASP9

M14

AK74

FAL

Valmet series

Browning HP

VP70

Beretta 93R

SIG SG 540

XL64E5

FAMAS

More M16 variants

Daewoo K1 / K2

Mini-14

SA Vz.58

AR-18

Different AK variants

Guns that I personally predict would be useable: --[[User:Btgr|Btgr]] ([[User talk:Btgr|talk]]) 18:58, 6 July 2013 (EDT)

Makarov PM

Stetchkin APS

M1911A1

Any .357 Magnum revolver made by Smith & Wesson, Colt or Ruger

SPAS-12

Lee-Enfield

SKS

PPSh-41

Sterling SMG

BXP or Skorpion

AKS-74U

GP-25 (for the AK47 variant)

M203 (for the SAR-80)

FN MAG-58

PKM

RPG-7

M72 LAW

FIM-92 Stinger

RGD-5 or M67

Heckler & Koch G11

Railgun

=New Red band trailer=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gEqmkduIeMU

:Am the only one, but are there quite a lot of hybrid firearms on display here? Take a closer look at those AKs, both the 7.62 and 5.56 versions. AK-74 stand-ins have a ring sight mounted on the back of the receiver, and [http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/14607241/mgs5_phantom_pain.0_cinema_640.0.jpg 7.62 ones have a bizarre wooden front grip, AKS-74U patterned back sights along with a pretty western looking flash hider]. Now those are some jive-ass Kalashnikovs if I ever laid my very one eyes upon one. Is anyone a bit more versed as to why Kojima suddenly went for this bizarre change? --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:26, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

I'll admit it is unusual, but at least they look like they can exist unlike Resident Evil 6 where all guns seemed like frankenguns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:58, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

=Getting the feeling of anachronism =
I wonder, with the recent trailer, a lot of the tech and gear are a bit anachronistic for the 80s like Skull face's men. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:19, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
:Dudes got a robot arm, I don't think historical accuracy is a big deal.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 20:49, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
::That's a BS argument. If that's the excuse, why not all guns be fictional and they start using halo plasma rifles and phasers? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Kojima has said that MGS takes place in an alternate time line from the real world, so there being anachronisms in weapons and technology really shouldn't matter all that much, I mean hell, Peace Walker had some weapons that weren't made until the 80's and I believe some that weren't made until the 90's, so it's a little late for the "This is anachronistic!" arguments.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 23:08, 24 September 2013 (EDT)
::::Kojima has confirmed that ''"Weapons will be based off of weapons found in the 1980's"''. --[[User:Btgr|Btgr]] ([[User talk:Btgr|talk]]) 04:31, 29 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::Let's hope they actually ARE real guns and not completely fictionalized guns, as Ground Zeroes is not giving me good hopes on that (like the WU gun). I mean, with Rising, its completely acceptable, since it took place well into the future of not only our time, but also in-universe. Considering games taking place both before and after MGSV (both GZ and TPP) used real life weaponry, going the Resident Evil route is jarring, especially considering the Fox Engine was meant to bring out more realism. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 09:49, 24 November 2013 (EST)
I can agree. The fact that MGS4 had so many well made real life models makes this whole deal very odd to me. Why would they have made these franken guns instead of the actual weapons in the 80's? [[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 23:56, 11 July 2014 (EDT)

= Single Action Army and other guns =

Not much to go off but Ocelot's gun does not look like an SAA at all. It looks like some kind of top breaker. Do you think the guns in this one are going to be generic instead of actual models like they've been before?--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] ([[User talk:Acepeacemaker|talk]])
:I would agree that it looks nothing like a Colt, more like a Webley, but it isn't a perfect match for that either. As far as I can tell every one of these weapons is a hybrid or fabrication of some sort. The AK is the same shape as an AK-47, but every single part of it is wrong in some way. The rifle used by Skull Face's guys is pretty close to a real gun, as everything up the the rear of the handguard is a SIG SG 550, but ahead of that it goes to hell (looks a bit like an FNC from that point on). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:12, 12 June 2013 (EDT)
::Yeah back to the AK, in the shot I took of Snake disarming a guy, that AK has the elevated rear sight like a Galil [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:33, 12 June 2013 (EDT)
:::That AK is such a mess it is ridiculous. if you look at the receiver it actually appears to be partly based on that of an FN FAL (left side reflected on both sides of the AK) with an AKM dust cover with an AKS-74U rear sight. Added to this you have the weird straight post front sight (which I think I recognise from something but can't place), the slotted flash hider which looks a bit like a shortened Druganov, a vent-less handguard which looks like it has an M16A2 handguard texture applied to it, and a gas block like nothing I have seen on an AK. Also, unless they are at different game build stages there are two different rifles here, as the one with the rear sight at the top of the back cover has a Bakelite style 5.45×39mm style mag with the shallower curve. The guns are so f'ed up in this game so far that I almost get the feeling that they weren't actually designed for it, they just took existing models from other games and messed them up in the hopes that nobody would notice. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:22, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

:::I took a look around at some AK variants and the front sight post that you mentioned you couldn't place looks like it's from the AK-74. Could also be taken from the PKM. Take a look at the entry for [[9th Company]] and compare --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 05:09, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think so, the AK-74 front sight has a sloped back and a cut out in the middle, whereas this is vertical front and back and has no cut out. It also attaches to the barrel in a different way to any of the AK type sights. I've since remembered the thing it reminds me of, which is the front sight used on the original Gerat 06 prototype. I highly doubt this is what they deliberately based it on as this is such an obscure weapon, but this is what it reminded me of when I first saw it:[[File:Mauser Gerat 06 Early.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Mauser Gerat 06 - 7.92×33mm Kurz]] --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:05, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::I just noticed, it also looks a lot like the front sight on the Knorr-Bremse paratrooper rifle prototype as seen [http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6949/knorrbremse1pz5.jpg here], the groove up the side is very similar. Both this and the Gerat 06 front sight are hooded though, although if they just used a random side on image they found as a reference you might not necessarily realise and model it as open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:26, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

::Yeah, the AK (in-game name is currently SVG-76) is a mingling of numerous AK-variants. Rear sights altering between the Valmet/Galil/Vektor variants and the AKMSU ones, magazines altering between the long 7.62 ones and 5.45 bakelite ones and so on. And since the AK is (arguably) inspired by StG 44, it may just also borrow elements from other weapons notably inspired by StG 44. This is probably just to have a "universal in-game AK". The game - from what I understand - takes place in handful of hotspots of early-mid 1980's and therefore it'd be tricky for armed groups - ranging from African Guerillas to Soviet Ground Forces at their technological peak - to reliably have the very specific variant of certain firearm in use, as there tends to be tiny variations from country to country. Though, why do the Soviets have the Valmet/Galil sights on their AK variants? I thought Mikhail Kalashnikov and majority of AK users in Soviet/Russian army hated the Valmet style rear sights!? [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 03:04, 18 August 2014 (EDT)

Let's hope the final product is a little different than advertised. In previous games, the weapons were slightly altered from early footage. In a way, the different weapon designs give off a sense of familiar yet alternate view of the period that the game takes place in. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:43, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

Anyway, you think the revolve might be a Nagant? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:45, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

= Punished Snakes Camo =

can anyone identify the camo snake uses in the phantom pain trailer ? looks like tiger stripe but is more arid, but not the same as the desert tiger stripe that Drebin wears

cheers

[[User:Sike|Sike]] ([[User talk:Sike|talk]]) 18:35, 3 May 2014 (EDT)

Drebin wears Desert DPM by the looks of it. Snake has Desert Tiger Stripe. Also it's Big Boss not Snake.
[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 23:52, 11 July 2014 (EDT)

yes i know he is Big Boss, but he is also refered to as Venom Snake(latest e3) and Kaz calls him Snake in the trailer. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] ([[User talk:Sike|talk]]) 08:28, 23 August 2014 (EDT)

=Finished product=

So from all the recent game footages, it looks like all these franken guns are going to remain. Which is unfortunate. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:20, 13 August 2014 (EDT)

:Much too bad, really. MGS1 started the trend of authentic firearms in the series, and now we've jumped straight into the realm of fictional firearms. Of course, the likes of the Foxhound unit in the first game were certainly fantastical, but the modelled-from-real-life hardware gave it a certain anchor to reality. There were certainly lots of period-accurate firearms that Kojima and his team could have modelled for this game, but for no reason I can fathom, historical accuracy for firearms seems to no longer be a priority for this series, leaving us fans of authentic weaponry in games out in the cold for this title. It makes me wonder if Kojima will also use fictional guns for his upcoming [[Silent Hill]] game starring [[Norman Reedus]], which is another Konami series that has generally used realistically-modelled guns. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 20:04, 14 August 2014 (EDT)

::It's not even just Kojima. It's becoming a trend for games to feature mostly fictional guns. Look at Resident Evil and GTA. Both game series featured guns modeled on real life counterparts for the most part in the past. It's a shame and I hope this trend doesn't take over most games. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

Well for the GTA series, most of the guns were pretty real. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:22, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:Yeah, I meant that GTA V didnt have real models, but the series did in the past. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:33, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

::Well, referring to the new Silent Hill game, Silent Hill doesn't really provide the player with any significant firepower (the MAC-10 in Silent Hill 3 was the only full auto weapon in the series so far), so I'm gonna guess that we'll be getting a hold of some kind of Beretta, or maybe a generic 1911. Heavier weapons might be generic shotguns or bolt action rifles, though. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 13:10, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

:There was the MAC-11 in [[Silent Hill 4]]. But you didn't have direct control over that weapon. I was hoping that a Silent Hill game by Kojima would feature realistic capacities for more ingame guns (such as 15 rounds or more in a "wonder nine," like the S&W Sigma from the first game), but now that it looks like he's gone into fictional firearm territory for his flagship series that's unlikely now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 04:19, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

:The PMCs had the M4 and snake had a GSR right up until the release and then SBR SCAR-H's and snakes operator came out of no where... Hoping that is the case, but in yongs video, ocelots dudes still had the FNC frankengun that is paramount in every video so far... Really hoping, but worried, and think it might taint the game a little but if I have to deal with stupid guns...

Seriously, is it so hard for them to use real guns instead of inventing fictional ones? I mean the PSP game that came before all used real guns and that's a PSP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:44, 12 September 2014 (EDT)

After watching a new cutscene involving Quiet, I am just bothered by how they didn't animate a sling for Snake even in the cutscene? Seriously, it looks like it's glued to his side pouch [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:42, 25 September 2014 (EDT)

:Not quite sure, but I think this is largely due to cutscenes being animated in real-time, rather then being pre-rendered. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 01:33, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

Talk:Battlefield Hardline

2014-09-19T09:10:25Z

BeloglaviSup: /* New Hotwire mode trailer */

== Just got it up ==

Just started the page, I'm waiting for the beta to drop for me so i can get some pics and gun info in here, for now the articles contain guns i've seen from trailers.
:I didn't read the beta agreement but I'm pretty sure there's some sort of NDA that you'd be breaking by doing that. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 02:28, 11 June 2014 (EDT)
::Considering that people are putting up youtube videos of their beta play sessions and not getting shut down, I doubt I'll be breaking any rules. [[User:Bob juan santos|Bob juan santos]] ([[User talk:Bob juan santos|talk]]) 05:06, 11 June 2014 (EDT)

== This should be interesting ==
I just hope there's some kind of emphasis on bringing suspects in alive, otherwise there's no point in a law enforcement theme. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 03:02, 10 June 2014 (EDT)
:Not really, from what I saw of the multiplayer gameplay, it's mostly lethal weapon engagements. You can however cuff a person when you melee them from the sides or behind, similar to knife take downs in previous games, and you do have access to a tazer. We'll see how the single player works out later though.
::SP is what I'm talking about. I learned a long time ago that MP never really changes regardless of what game it is. Just about the only concept people can grasp is players running around and shooting at each other, with differences between games being largely superficial. Such a narrow-minded and objective-less focus isn't something I find all that entertaining anymore (my opinion, no offense intended) and as such I don't play MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:47, 13 June 2014 (EDT)
:::Well it's a Battlefield game, change it too much and people will complain, and when changes are not enough, people are still gonna complain. Having played the beta, I'd have to say it's still pretty much the same as any Battlefield game, with new modes and maps to play with, which is a good thing in my books. Also, as with other games, shooting people is only a part of most multiplayer games, a big part yes, but most games has other things going for it other than shooting such as various team objectives. Lets face it, since most games are about shooting other people in single player, it's kind weird if the multiplayer suddenly ask you to plant flowers with each other instead. As for Hardline single player, I've seen lots of handcuffing in the trailers and the game does have a Taser, so there's that. [[User:Bob juan santos|Bob juan santos]] ([[User talk:Bob juan santos|talk]]) 06:24, 13 June 2014 (EDT)
::Sadly this doesn't look like it's going to be another [[SWAT 4]]. Despite how well-made that game was, it seems no one wants to shoot people with beanbags/pepperballs/tear gas and arrest them again. Much too bad, really.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 07:32, 13 June 2014 (EDT)
:::You're in my way sir. But yeah, SWAT 4-style gameplay would be too radical a departure for the typical FPS fanbase that ''Battlefield'' helped build to handle. I know I struggled with it. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 13:25, 13 June 2014 (EDT)
::::You could just play... you know.... SWAT4.[[User:Bob juan santos|Bob juan santos]] ([[User talk:Bob juan santos|talk]]) 14:42, 13 June 2014 (EDT)
:::I could, but [[SWAT 4]] is, after you get the hang of its singleplayer (and the multiplayer servers are closed), a bit limited given it's being a 2006-era game. Just two of its issues are unrealistically fragile body armour and how civilian NPCs have rather predictable AI routines (real people more often freak out in these situations rather than calmly resisting or accepting arrest), which could have been addressed in a modern sequel. As for "You're in my way, sir," that's perfectly avoidable most of the time with the exception of when the dev team scripted specific mission entries to spawn the NPC allies too close to the player character during the mission spawn sequence. Still, to me it was an understandable attempt to make AI-controlled officers a bit more realistic (not many people have no qualms about their personal space being invaded for no apparent reason). Having said that, it remains one of the best games around for tactical co-op play and even tactical versus play (assuming the right server settings were used, which wasn't often, since servers allowing both SWAT and Suspects to unrealistically use all the weaponry in the game were the rule).--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 10:41, 21 June 2014 (EDT)
:::::But I thought Battlefield was meant to pride itself as a series on its realism? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 10:03, 14 June 2014 (EDT)

::::::Authenticity and ''technical'' realism, things like reloads being done correctly, +1 in the chamber, and all that good stuff. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:31, 14 June 2014 (EDT)
::::::Been playing since Battlefield 2, not really, it looks realistic, that's about it. [[User:Bob juan santos|Bob juan santos]] ([[User talk:Bob juan santos|talk]]) 17:45, 14 June 2014 (EDT)

Well then I guess the legions of socially maladjusted fanboys on the internet lied to me then. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 19:07, 14 June 2014 (EDT)
:The internet has liars? Nawwwwwwwwww. To be honest it's more realistic than most mainstream shooters but less so than the likes of SWAT or ARMA or older Rainbow 6. [[User:Bob juan santos|Bob juan santos]] ([[User talk:Bob juan santos|talk]]) 21:03, 14 June 2014 (EDT)

== This is it for now. ==

As of right now all the firearms in beta, as far as I know, have been added to this article. I'll update the article when the game comes out though I don't know when I'll be getting the game just yet. For now, enjoy. [[User:Bob juan santos|Bob juan santos]] ([[User talk:Bob juan santos|talk]]) 05:26, 17 June 2014 (EDT)

== "MG36" G36E/KV Hybrid ==
The MG36 section got edited again, and apparently it's a G36KV. It's not a G36KV either, the G36KV has only 4 hole vents while the in-game G36 has 6 hole vents on the handguard. I presume it's a G36E with the G36KV carry handle

== Cut/Hidden weapons ==

:I've seen a few videos on Youtube that show weapons hidden in the beta's code. Most of them seem near-finished, bar the odd missing texture or reload sound. Should we add them to the page? I mean, we've added cut weapons to pages before and it's certain they'll be in the final product (unless they're just leftovers from porting features over from Battlefield 3 or 4, of course). --[[User:Gunmaster2011|Gunmaster2011]] ([[User talk:Gunmaster2011|talk]]) 12:26, 18 June 2014 (EDT)

::I think that can be done. Also I think those guns are probably going to be used in the full release so yeah, include them, after they are available we can add further informations. --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]

:Great! I'll add the video I saw so we know where to start. You can do that, right? I hope so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUXjYQmKQus --[[User:Gunmaster2011|Gunmaster2011]] ([[User talk:Gunmaster2011|talk]]) 19:25, 18 June 2014 (EDT)

::Sure, I'll add the informations based on the video. Thanks for the sharing. --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]
:::I think the 93R is just a 92FS with extended barrel and a fore grip. It should be moved under the 92FS section, your call. [[User:Bob juan santos|Bob juan santos]] ([[User talk:Bob juan santos|talk]]) 09:24, 19 June 2014 (EDT)
::::Yes, It's a 92FS, I specified that on the image info. I didn't include it under the 92FS section because I included it as "Hidden gun". --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]

:I think this is perhaps the first game I've ever played that featured an 8 shot .357 Revolver compared to other games that just slap in a .357 caliber Desert Eagle. It really shows the uniqueness of the weapons their choosing, although I hope some of the names like the L96A1 are merely placeholders, I could imagine the L96 being renamed to the AWP or something along those lines. Here's hoping [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 14:10, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
::Ah yes, the S&W 327 makes it first appearance in videogames in this battlefield set. But again, Battlefield is going straight down in terms of guns realism, but I guess this hope can be still there until the full release. --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]
:::By gun realism I hope you mean Hardline specifically, and almost all the errors seem to exist because so many things are placeholders anyway. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:06, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
::::Yes, I'm talking about Hardline. Not that the previous title didn't get some errors, especially [[Battlefield 4]] which has considerably ammount of them. --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]

== Content from BF3/4 ==
There's an interesting blend of the two. Most of the game seems to be based on BF3, with a bunch of BF4 details brought over, which makes sense given when it was being developed. The weapons are like this too, for example the 93R is BF3's 93R: a 92FS with the foregrip, muzzle brake, visible extended magazine, and the player actually uses the grip, but the BF4 93R is just a 92FS with the grip, which isn't even used. Hardline uses the much better BF3 version. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:36, 18 June 2014 (EDT)
::I'm seeing a lot of this as well, to include strange modifications. I added some commentary on the M16A3's minor additions - not all for the better either! Keep in mind though, that many of these things are placeholders - they could very well have a brand new 93R made for the game (and it just didn't make it to the first beta build).--[[User:mk12mod0|mk12mod0]]

== Fixes to certain guns? ==

:I'm not playing the beta, but I did see a weapon showcase video uploaded very recently and it would appear that the fire rates of the Uzi and AKM have both been reduced to the correct 600RPM. The G36C's fire rate hasn't yet changed, though. I haven't edited the page yet, as I don't know if the chambering of those guns, or the closed-bolt nature of the Uzi have been corrected. As I'm not in the beta, could someone clarify? Also, it should perhaps be noted that the pistols have their slides manually released, like in Medal of Honor 2010's singleplayer. --[[User:MSKyuuni|MSKyuuni]]
::The beta is over so it's better wait for the full release to add or modify further informations --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]
:::Okay then. Like I said, I've not played it so I didn't know it was over. ----[[User:MSKyuuni|MSKyuuni]]

== New trailer from gamescom ==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk34yU1BGiU&list=UUvNBXWGykQrWb7kPAn5eLUQ

The only new weapon I see here is the MP5K, maybe someone with better eyes than me will be able to find more. [[User:Bob juan santos|Bob juan santos]] ([[User talk:Bob juan santos|talk]]) 22:45, 13 August 2014 (EDT)

:I see the Taurus .44, Galil ACE 21, and possible G17's in the beginning sequence. The AKS74U and the M249E3 SAW were in the Hostage video as well.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:12, 14 August 2014 (EDT)

== New Hotwire mode trailer ==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOABuPJtGmg

I think I saw a really short barreled AR, a Serbu super shorty, and what seems to be the grease gun at 1:23. [[User:Bob juan santos|Bob juan santos]] ([[User talk:Bob juan santos|talk]]) 02:38, 19 September 2014 (EDT)

:The ''grease gun'' is actually Swedish m/45 9mm submachine gun. Curious choice, as the weapon only saw limited usage through US special forces during the Vietnam conflict. Perhaps it's meant to be standing in for it's American version, M76, though that would still be a very mind boggling weapon choice. Were there any notable criminal usages of the gun in question, or did they just wanted to add another local Swedish gun into the game? --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 05:10, 19 September 2014 (EDT)

Talk:AK-12

2014-08-06T22:05:37Z

BeloglaviSup: /* Renaming weapons ??? AK-12 to A-545 ??? */

== Additional Variants ==

[[File:Ak-12 7.62x39mm.jpg|thumb|500px|none|AK-12 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Ak-12 5.56x45mm.jpg|thumb|500px|none|AK-12 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:Ak-12 7.62x51mm.jpg|thumb|500px|none|SVK-12 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:RPK-12.jpg|thumb|500px|none|RPK-12]]
[[File:AK-12 Carbine.jpg|thumb|500px|none|AK-12 Carbine (short Barrel). 5.45x39mm.]]
[[File:AKU-12.jpg|thumb|500px|none|AK-12U - 5.45x39mm.]]
[[File:AK-12 GP-30.jpg|thumb|500px|none|AK-12 with GP-30 - 5.45x39mm.]]

Is it just me, or do the vast majority of these images look like a photoshopped version of the same image that is on the main page? Are these even all real variants, or are they just supposed/planned variants? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:56, 17 March 2014 (EDT)
: [http://expert.ru/2014/01/14/kak-ustroen-novejshij-avtomat-kalashnikova/ Here] can be seen some good and most updated (January 2014) images. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 23:11, 17 March 2014 (EDT)

== What an ugly AK ==

How can they go from the sleek beauty that was the AK47 and end up with this? It looks hideous. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:13, 9 February 2012 (CST)
:Is beauty really a criteria you have for rifles? The AK-12 ''is'' a military rifle after all, and I don't think the Russian military compare guns using how good it looks as a category. In my world, it doesn't matter how ugly a gun is, if it does it's job well, it's welcomed with open arms. Also, was the AK-47 really that good-looking? It looked a bit plain to me. User:Alasdair
::Although, as you say, how it looks is largely irrelevant for a military weapon, I actually quite like the look of it compared to traditional AKs. I've never understood people's love for the look of the AK-47. If it was released now, it would be derided as an aesthetic and ergonomic abomination. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:34, 10 February 2012 (CST)

::What's with all the hate against modularity? Like it or not, it's the future. Look at the US military and note how the addition of rail interface systems have greatly expanded the flexibility of current weapon systems like the M16 and M14 by enabling the quick and easy attachment of virtually any sighting or control device without the need for a gunsmith. Are you in an Iraqi town full of insurgents? Stick on a red dot and a broomstick for the MOUT that you're ultimately going to face. Then the next day when you suddenly find yourself out in the open countryside? Pull those off and replace them with a magnified optic and bipod which would be better suited to that environment. I don't see any conceivable reason why the Ruskies ''wouldn't'' want such a capability, and this is exactly what the AK-12 delivers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:16, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

== Really? ==

Is this really a new AK variant, or is it still an experimental weapon?--Gunner5
:The one labelled as AK-200 was the prototype, the AK-12 is supposedly the production model and is currently being field tested. I wouldn't be surprised though if it was never actually adopted, like all of the other "replacements" for the AK-74. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:33, 9 February 2012 (CST)
Russian military has already said that they are not interested in the AK12. They want to get a brand new rifle, which will be as accurate as the M4 or G36--[[User:Flexo|Flexo]] 08:23, 11 February 2012 (CST)
::When and where did you hear that? As the AK-12 was only unveiled 2 weeks ago I doubt the Russian army has actually done any proper testing yet. Are you sure you aren't getting it mixed up with the earlier AK-200 prototype? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:14, 11 February 2012 (CST)
::: Here: http://newsru.com/russia/25jan2012/aka.html
:::and here: http://newsru.com/russia/17feb2012/ak12.html
::: Because you do not read russian, I inform you about the content of this articles: Russian military demand from the manufacturer an assault rifle of OTHER design. They are convinced that АК-47 it is impossible to transform into the modern weapon by ANY modernization. But АК-12 it is only modernization of AK-47/AKM/AK-74/AK-100/AK-200 etc. --[[User:Flexo|Flexo]] 13:15, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:::By the way, in this article also it is written about new pistol "Strike" which has a design similar with Glock. It is a pity that a photo of awful quality :( --[[User:Flexo|Flexo]] 13:41, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Renaming weapons ??? AK-12 to A-545 ??? ==

http://topwar.ru/33752-ak-12-protiv-a-545-strannye-novosti-o-konkurse.html

I do not understand Russian. Please, corrected article. --[[User:Mateogala|Emto]] ([[User talk:Mateogala|talk]]) 12:39, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

:No, AK-12 retains its name. A-545 is a completely different gun, a new model by [[V.A. Degtyarev Plant]] that is suggested for competition with AK-12. A-545 seems to be a derivation of AEK-971. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 12:34, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

http://iichan.hk/mi/src/1392219748199.jpg Is this the weapon ?? --[[User:Mateogala|Emto]] ([[User talk:Mateogala|talk]]) 12:39, 6 August 2014 (EDT)
:Looks so, but I'm not sure as all images of AEK-971 show side-folding stock while here we see retractable stock. Let's wait for some time, maybe more reliable images will appear. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 14:28, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

A new patch for the game "Survarium". It adds just the weapon. I do not know what this weapon.

http://survarium.com/en/news/v024a-key-features-preview

--[[User:Mateogala|Emto]] ([[User talk:Mateogala|talk]]) 14:34, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

:I don't think this gun is the A-545, but is just the current models of the AEK-971S and AEK-973S (might have a different letter than "S" to distinguish the variant, but have never heard a different name for it). During some of the Ratnik trials the director of TsNIITochMash gave an interview with a Russian blogger, and when asked about alternatives to the AK-12 he said that Degtyarev had presented an AEK variant (probably what you pictured), and Tula had come up with a variant that is called the A-545. However I am not quite sure what the context of the use of "Tula" means, as in whether he means KPD in Tula, or designed by TsNIITochMash and made by the Tula Arms Plant ([http://twower.livejournal.com/969877.html here] is the original Russian article). I can believe both, as I found [http://www.firearmsworld.net/russain/kalash/ak12/test896892.jpg this] image from Ratnik trials in 2013, which appears to show a modernised AL-7 at the top (designed by TsNIITochMash), and AK-12 in the middle, and a bullpup at the bottom which resembles an A-91 (designed by KPD) but with some differences. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:56, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

::I believe in a strong probability that the A-545, is an updated version of 5,56A-91, or simple a more official designation for the same base model. And while I'm not exactly fluent in Russian, as a native speaker of Slavic language I am positive he was referring to Tula as an adjective (note the lower case 't' as opposed to upper case 'D' in Degtyarev) for a bureau set in Tula. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 18:05, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

Talk:Sword Art Online II

2014-07-13T11:52:52Z

BeloglaviSup: /* FN Minimi is a M249-E1? */

=Unknown Pistol=

Might be a SIG P250 Compact? --[[User:Lemonificent|Lemonificent]] ([[User talk:Lemonificent|talk]])
[[Image:SIG P250c right.JPG|thumb|400px|none|P250C]]

:Until this character have a screen time, I agree he's wielding a SIG series handgun. But I don't think he's wielding a compact version, because it's possible that tall & average build man (in this case, avatar) could made some pistol look like compact pistol with his long fingers. [[User:Johnny Akiba|Johnny Akiba]] ([[User talk:Johnny Akiba|talk]]) 00:56, 7 July 2014 (EDT)

=Beat me to it=

Thank god I logged in today, otherwise, I would have wasted my time since someone already started this [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:05, 6 July 2014 (EDT)
:That makes two of us. ^.^; [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 03:29, 7 July 2014 (EDT)

== FN Minimi is a M249-E1? ==

I know in the anime they called it a Minimi, but isn't it actually a M249-E1? My justification is in the stock. If you compared the stocks of M249-E1 and FN Minimi, it looks more like the M249-E1 with more part of the stocks filled in than the Minimi. Also the back sights too. [[User:Inceptor57|Inceptor57]] ([[User talk:Inceptor57|talk]]) 18:09, 12 July 2014 (EDT)
[[Image:SAO 2 (140).jpg|thumb|none|400px|Anime screenshot]]
[[Image:M249 FN MINIMI DA-SC-85-11586 c1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN Minimi]]
[[Image:M249E1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M249-E1]]

I get the feeling that this is one of those gun shows that will have low quality guns for background characters and more detailed guns for guys in the foreground [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:00, 13 July 2014 (EDT)
:I don't know, I'm just positive that the depicted weapon isn't a FN Minimi from what I've seen on the details. I just need confirmation that I am right so I can change it. [[User:Inceptor57|Inceptor57]] ([[User talk:Inceptor57|talk]]) 01:40, 13 July 2014 (EDT)

::Well, the back sights are, if nothing else, more akin to those of the M249, rather then the original Minimi. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 07:52, 13 July 2014 (EDT)