https://www.buildlogs.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Asmkillr323Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]2026-04-16T21:53:29ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.41.0https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Takers&diff=322786Talk:Takers2010-09-02T18:33:59Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Who called this the new Heat? */</p>
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<div>Is it just me or does this look like ''Heat'', only with mostly black guys? Here's Wikipedia's take, for what its worth: ''A group of professional bank robbers, who specialize in spectacular robberies, are pulled into one last job by a recently paroled cohort only to be pitted against a hard-boiled detective who interrupts their heist.'' If that's not ''Heat'', then i don't know what is.<br />
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For a minute, I was looking for the scene in [[The Losers]] where the team walks away as a helicopter explodes, but then I realized that [[Idris Elba]] is in both movies and that scene is from this film. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 21:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Who called this the new Heat? ==<br />
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Seriously, someone told me that articles are writing this as the Heat of this generation and that just made me cringe. The cast just didn't have the legendary status that De Niro and Al Picino had back then and they had too many named cast members unlike Heat. And really, the Heat of the recent generation would be Public Enemies which was directed by Micheal Mann.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:04, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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But come on on! Walker is almost like a de niro (note sarcasm)...Heat is in its own right and really i would like to believe only a independent movie could reach that magnatude. But Public Enemies?...i guess if you could stay awake long enough it could maybe be a little like heat...kinda. If anything can be compared to heat right now i think it would be The Town with jermy remmer--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Some of the shoot outs in [[Mesrine: Killer Instinct]] are on the epic scale similar to Heat; it certainly has a very prolonged shootout involving a variety of different weapons. This is the true story of a famous French bank robber, and his exploits in France and later in Canada. The final shootout of the 1st film is quite spectacular, and is surely the only time in history where an escaped prisoner comes back to rescue his fellow inmates, M16 in hand (remember this is a true story!). Worth checking out this not too famous film...<br />
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Thanks for the info...I love to hear about awesome foreign flics...I'm almost out of Cantonese and korean movies to watch, or atleast the good ones.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:22, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I've seen Takers and I've got to say, it's no Heat. That's because there will never be another heist movie like Heat.<br />
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Unless they remake it. Which seems like the trend nowadays in film. To remake better films. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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In 3D [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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No one could remake Heat besides Michael Mann.<br />
:And he already did. Heat is a remake of LA Takedown. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Can anyone please point me to a reviewer who says this movie is the "new ''[[Heat]]''"? I've seen plenty of comparisons to ''[[Heat]]'' in the reviews I've read from MetaCritic, but they were all made in a pejorative way - certainly not positive. Most reviewers I've seen called it a ''[[Heat]]'' "wannabe". -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:49, 2 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I'm just wondering if Chris Brown will put his woman-beating skills to work in this move.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 18:33, 2 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== 1911 ==<br />
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I think its possible the first .45 used by John could possibly be a Kimber Pro Carry II or maybe a Nighthawk T3. those would be my guesses but im not sure. i also when watching the movie thought he might have switched because in some parts the 1911 seemed more compact. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:20, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Black_Hawk_Down&diff=322112Talk:Black Hawk Down2010-09-01T12:09:57Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Seriously */</p>
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<div>== Hoot's "M4" ==<br />
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== This probably isn't very important, but... ==<br />
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Weapon used by delta force ==<br />
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M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15<br />
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: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
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Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4<br />
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?<br />
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.<br />
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Mistake? ==<br />
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.<br />
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use<br />
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think<br />
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I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]<br />
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== Mike Durant's Book ==<br />
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.<br />
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them). <br />
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== The Hand ==<br />
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.<br />
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Flashlight Attachment Help==<br />
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]<br />
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]<br />
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::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.<br />
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:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==M4 in 1994?==<br />
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?<br />
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:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
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::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he <br />
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The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.<br />
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:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.<br />
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA<br />
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==<br />
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
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:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)<br />
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::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?<br />
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2<br />
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the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)<br />
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Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==<br />
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Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.<br />
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--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out<br />
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-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.<br />
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== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==<br />
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The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.<br />
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== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==<br />
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Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.<br />
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== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==<br />
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The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.<br />
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Flashlights ==<br />
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.<br />
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:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v<br />
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does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Possible Error? ==<br />
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Actor in the Specials ==<br />
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Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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This guy <br />
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]<br />
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]<br />
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]<br />
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== Seriously ==<br />
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]<br />
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]<br />
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Flight gloves, as I just fucking explained, are not restrictive or obstructive in the slightest.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]<br />
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. <br><br>Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]<br />
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Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.<br />
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I think the Geneva convention forbids hollow point ammo in the military. The Police of the nation is a different subject. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
:You're thinking of the Hague Convention of 1899, not the Geneva Convention.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was the GC or HC and didn't really care to look it up at the moment.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Well, the Hague banned all use of ammunition that easily expands or flattens in a human target. I have no exact idea of what round is being used or how it gets around the HC, I only know that when asked about the effectiveness of 5.56 ammunition, a few SF guys made mention that have been issued a new "expanding" round. I have also heard that Marines are now being issued an expanding type round. It may be that since we are not actually fighting an official "military force" that the HC and GC do not apply. Also you must remember that the use of .50 cal against personnel is banned too, how often do you think that is observed?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'm not saying we follow either conventions to a T in every war, I'm just echoing what I heard from a man who was there. A lot of people who lived through the battle of mogadishu came away with the feeling that Bill Clinton cared more about how headlines would look than he did about the safety of our soldiers. As for HC and GC not applying, I agree that they really don't apply to A) organizations that are not militaries but instead ragtag terrorist groups and B) hail from nations that didn't exist at the time of the convention and never signed a similar document. It's the same argument that was applied for the waterboarding of captured terrorists; apparently, they apply some standards to those who didn't sign, but not others. Personally, I think that terrorist groups and undeveloped countries where they never signed the conventions shouldn't get the protection of them, and we really need to invest into expanding ammunitions for everyone; AP doesn't make sense for unarmored targets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Black_Hawk_Down&diff=321885Talk:Black Hawk Down2010-09-01T00:33:54Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Seriously */</p>
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<div>== Hoot's "M4" ==<br />
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== This probably isn't very important, but... ==<br />
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Weapon used by delta force ==<br />
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M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15<br />
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: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
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Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4<br />
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?<br />
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.<br />
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Mistake? ==<br />
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
----<br />
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.<br />
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use<br />
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think<br />
<br />
I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]<br />
<br />
== Mike Durant's Book ==<br />
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.<br />
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them). <br />
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== The Hand ==<br />
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.<br />
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Flashlight Attachment Help==<br />
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]<br />
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]<br />
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::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.<br />
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:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==M4 in 1994?==<br />
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?<br />
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:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
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::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he <br />
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The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.<br />
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:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.<br />
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA<br />
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==<br />
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
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:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)<br />
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::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?<br />
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2<br />
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the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)<br />
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Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==<br />
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Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.<br />
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--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out<br />
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-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.<br />
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== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==<br />
<br />
The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.<br />
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== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==<br />
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Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.<br />
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== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==<br />
<br />
The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.<br />
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Flashlights ==<br />
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.<br />
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:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v<br />
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does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Possible Error? ==<br />
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Actor in the Specials ==<br />
<br />
Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
This guy <br />
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]<br />
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]<br />
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]<br />
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== Seriously ==<br />
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]<br />
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]<br />
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]<br />
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. <br><br>Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]<br />
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Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.<br />
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Black_Hawk_Down&diff=321884Talk:Black Hawk Down2010-09-01T00:30:23Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Seriously */</p>
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<div>== Hoot's "M4" ==<br />
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== This probably isn't very important, but... ==<br />
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Weapon used by delta force ==<br />
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M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15<br />
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: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
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Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4<br />
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?<br />
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.<br />
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Mistake? ==<br />
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
----<br />
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.<br />
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use<br />
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think<br />
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I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]<br />
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== Mike Durant's Book ==<br />
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.<br />
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them). <br />
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== The Hand ==<br />
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.<br />
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Flashlight Attachment Help==<br />
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]<br />
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]<br />
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::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.<br />
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:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==M4 in 1994?==<br />
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?<br />
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:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
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::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he <br />
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The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.<br />
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:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.<br />
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA<br />
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==<br />
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
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:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)<br />
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::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?<br />
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2<br />
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the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)<br />
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Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==<br />
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Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.<br />
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--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out<br />
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-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.<br />
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== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==<br />
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The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.<br />
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== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==<br />
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Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.<br />
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== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==<br />
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The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.<br />
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Flashlights ==<br />
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.<br />
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:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v<br />
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does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Possible Error? ==<br />
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Actor in the Specials ==<br />
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Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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This guy <br />
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]<br />
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]<br />
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]<br />
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== Seriously ==<br />
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]<br />
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]<br />
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]<br />
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. <br><br>Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]<br />
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Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.<br />
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Black_Hawk_Down&diff=321402Talk:Black Hawk Down2010-08-31T01:13:20Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Seriously */</p>
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<div>== Hoot's "M4" ==<br />
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== This probably isn't very important, but... ==<br />
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Weapon used by delta force ==<br />
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M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15<br />
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: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
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Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4<br />
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?<br />
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.<br />
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Mistake? ==<br />
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
----<br />
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.<br />
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use<br />
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think<br />
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I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]<br />
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== Mike Durant's Book ==<br />
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.<br />
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them). <br />
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== The Hand ==<br />
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.<br />
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Flashlight Attachment Help==<br />
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]<br />
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]<br />
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::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.<br />
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:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==M4 in 1994?==<br />
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?<br />
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:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
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::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he <br />
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The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.<br />
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:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.<br />
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA<br />
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==<br />
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
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:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)<br />
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::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?<br />
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2<br />
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the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)<br />
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Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==<br />
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Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.<br />
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--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out<br />
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-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.<br />
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== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==<br />
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The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.<br />
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== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==<br />
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Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.<br />
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== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==<br />
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The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.<br />
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Flashlights ==<br />
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.<br />
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:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v<br />
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does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Possible Error? ==<br />
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Actor in the Specials ==<br />
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Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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This guy <br />
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]<br />
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]<br />
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]<br />
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== Seriously ==<br />
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]<br />
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]<br />
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]<br />
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. <br><br>Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]<br />
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Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Colbert_Report,_The&diff=299681Talk:Colbert Report, The2010-07-12T13:17:00Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
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<div>How ironic we have a page for a left wing antigun jerk like Colbert on IMFDB :)<br />
:And say what you will about Colbert, but at least he's not a hypocrite. Look at how much space we've devoted to Sylvester Stallone. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
what exactly makes him a jerk? Just because he's not a conservative gun nut?<br />
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<br />
We better put some kind of disclaimer on the page, since we're all humorless right wing gun nuts and any illusion of this being any kind of impartial catalog of weapons in film and television went out the fucking window a long time ago.<br />
<br />
- Yeah, sure. Why not? :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, ironic that a couple of anonymous douchbags [[User:69.152.170.239]] and [[User:70.111.177.84]] spout anti gun left wing sarcasm. Nice to know that the rest of us are "fascists" in your eyes. I wonder why those gun hating folks even POST HERE! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Name anything I've said that's "anti-gun." You're just ranting and raving about things that have no bearing on reality. And the way you guys go on about the conspiracies of liberals and "the left" to come take your guns away is embarassing, and nothing to do with me. I'm only anti-raving hypocrite who pretends to run an impartial encyclopedia. --[[User:TheSouthpawOutlaw|TheSouthpawOutlaw]] 23:46, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, I love guns. I'm a firm supporter of the second ammendment. The only catch is that I'm also a proud liberal, atheist, pro gay marriage and all of the other stuff. Just because I don't preach from the bible of Beck and Limbaugh doesn't mean I'm a communist-socialist-facsist-or any other scary sounding word ending in "ist". I am liberal and love guns, and I also despise the constant right-wing rhetoric that surrounds the whole "gun-culture". I think it hurts the us all because a lot of people have this stereo-typical view of gun-owners as ignorant rednecks and it alienates the shooters who think differently and it scares away the non-shooters. I don't hate conservatives, just the extreme ones who spout non-sense at anyone who disagrees with them. This ain't directed at anyone in particular,just a general statement/ ShootingLiberal<br />
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::Uh, no. The gun owning crowd are NOT far right rednecks, but the damned LIBERALS sure like to make sure that this shallow stereotype is all that people recognize. Sorry, but being a proud card carrying Liberal and supporting guns is a contradiction, since Liberals by their philosophy see government as the best caretaker of the population, whereas the conservative sees the individual as the best caretaker of himself. Gun ownership is contradictory to the power of the state if the state wants all the power. Your quote was incredibly stupid and douchebaggy. Criticizing US as being humorless right wing gun nuts? The LEFT has no sense of humor (and your post proves it). Also quit being a douchebag and stop posting anonymously. All of our worst contributors pop in anonymously, type ridiculous posts and then either leave or are banned. Thanks for listening. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." - Barack Obama, 2008. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:18, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
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<br />
:::^This. Seriously, I love how liberals like to pretend that gun owners are knuckle dragging idiots. Except, of course, when they're a gun owner; then they're responsible but everyone else can't be trusted. I absolutely agree, as well, that liberalism (much like socialism, communism, and marxism) views the government as the group best equipped to act as caretaker for the whole populace. Let's look at Obama's policies for a quick case in point; they're better equipped to determine prices of private goods, they're better equipped to determine what's best for you (you gotta buy that health insurance or pay a fine), they're best equipped to run private car manufacturers, they're best equipped to give out student loans, they're best equipped to run banks, etc. By the way, I especially enjoy how, when something occurs that actually lies in the purview of what the government is supposedly best equipped to handle, they botch it ridiculously (oil spill). Gun ownership goes against the liberal belief that the people best equipped to use firearms are, of course, chosen by the government. And the fact that you live such a contradictory lifestyle raises questions about your own willful ignorance.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 03:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
:- Oh goody, political bullshit. Not that I disagree really, but.. Bah. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:51, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
^ Me and him (ShootingLiberal) are in the same boat, 'cept I'm a agnostic [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I knew there was something I didn't like about you! ;) LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Oh crap, the guy with the warehouse full of guns doesn't like me [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:20, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Naw, just a nauseated feeling of suspicion and distrust. Don't worry. I believe in the first amendment. You can believe whatever you want. But that crack sounds kinda like that 'this guy is dangerous because he has a lot of guns' crap that a lot of gun haters spout. Just noting ;) MPM<br />
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Oh, not at all. It a simple jibe is all. I apologize for the misunderstanding [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 05:23, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh, Okay! :) Cool. But it's true.... I AM dangerous (quote from Top Gun) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hoplite, we'll just use Obama's secret rights-stealing task force to take his guns.<br />
:: Hahahaha. Just what I expected! ;) MPM<br />
<br />
and MPM2008: You are completely over-reacting to what I'm trying to say. Not all liberals are communist, vegetarian, demons hell bent on turning the USA into the USSR. I believe in what Liberals believe, there are actually a lot of people like us, on specified boards and other gun forums. I've heard of tons of libs and moderates being afraid to identify themselves as such because they fear the backlash they might recieve. I just recently saw a confessed liberal getting ripped on 1911forums.com just for having it in his username, his post was about Military 1911's, nothing political to it and he still got ripped. Take a trip over to theliberalgunclub.org and you'll find that we enjoy guns just as much you or anyone else. There really is a conservative taste to the culture of gun-owners in America, a trip to any forum or gun range will show you that. It alienates many and scares off even more./ Shooting Liberal<br />
::Well it's gotta be EXPECTED, being that Liberals are the PERSECUTORS of gun owners. Kinda like being a German and a NSDAP member in a Jewish community in the 1930s and saying "Hey! I don't like how I have to hide the fact that I'm a German AND an NSDAP member" Doh! Or did you forget that Liberals are the backbone of the gun prohibition movement? It's got to be expected. How can you guys expect anything else? Sorry about that. I don't bash Liberals in my many OTHER forums because it's not an issue. I am in many forums for filmmaking, technical aspects of film, special effects, film editing. Personally I don't care what a person's politics are. But consider that anti gun LIBERALS (yes I said it) have driven MOST of the movie armorers out of business, have driven most of the movie industry OUT of the U.S. (mostly due to their rampant love of taxation and red tape and anti business bias) and seek (indirectly mind you) to eliminate guns in films in general. Kinda ironic eh? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: It's not limited to driving firearms out of Hollywood, either. Liberals have been doing their best to destroy the people's ability and God-given right to keep and bear arms for decades. Recall the attempt to allow gun manufacturers to be sued for what their product was used for (no other product in America carries the same rules), the repeated attempts at standardizing ridiculous, ineffective, and prohibitively expensive 'safety' devices that make no one more safe, and, of course, the liberal leadership on the fight to destroy the gun show through various ridiculous methos, even though all data suggests criminals get their firearms from burglary more than anywhere else. 'Shooting Liberal', you're deluding yourself, and I suggest you look around you, because with every vote you cast for some liberal jackass, you're destroying your right to keep and bear arms.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::By the way, liberalism is, in of itself, basically nanny-statism, and any nanny-state will eventually demand the firearms of their serfs. Liberalism makes everyone equally miserable except for the well-connected and political, much like communism. And, of course, there's that whole 'share the wealth' bullshit, because apparently I deserve to be taxed for creating jobs and making a legitimate wage so that someone can sit at home and watch cable TV or gamble at a casino with my tax dollars. Liberalism and the anti-gun agenda go hand in hand, and if you disagree, you're ignoring it.<br />
<br />
You know, it's not only liberals who go forward with this anti-gun stuff. You'd be surprised how many Republicans support some of these gun control measures. Plus, since our Liberal president took office, your gun rights have actually grown. Now you can carry in a National park and transport firearms on an amtrak. Like I said earlier, a lot of Liberals are no where near what you think, we are people too :) and some of us are adament supporters of the right to bear arms<br />
::WTF? Obama would NEVER increase gun rights on his own. The National park carry was PUSHED by Republicans! (and some pro gun Democrats). But I don't bash Obama for gun control, he hasn't done any (in fact you'll never find a bash on him by me anywhere on this site) Where do you live? It depends a lot on where you call home. In California we have a LOT of liberal fascists (i.e. liberals who are evil and crush all dissent). I have liberal friends who are HONEST liberals (i.e. they may have an opinion but they support the rights of others to have different opinions), but in SAN FRANCISCO and LALA land (especially the Hollywood crowd), the Liberals are intolerant bullies. I suppose that skews one's view of them. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Also, Obama didn't have any fingerprint on the law allowing carry in a national park. That was written and signed into law during the Bush administration; when Obama took power, he immediately halted it, and then it was reintroduced and re-signed later along with a bunch of other socialist things Obama wanted. AMTRAK legislation was ony passed because what it was attached to was a big part of Obama's agenda to destroy this country and strip people of as many freedoms as possible. Don't sit there and kid yourself, thinking Obama is a fan of the second amendment. He is not, by any stretch, a fan of your right to keep and bear arms. If you think he is, you're delusional. And as for 'republicans' who are anti-gun, note also that their voting records often reflect being more D than R, much like Arlen Specter. Just because you call yourself a Republican doesn't make you one. On the other hand, liberals are all against 2nd amendment rights, because you're too stupid to be able to handle such a dangerous item, but the people the government chooses for police departments are not.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::PS.You seem to have conveniently forgotten the things Obama has done trying to destroy the right to keep and bear arms, including the attemtped scapegoating for the drug war in Mexico, the destruction of brass, and the fact that Hillary Clinton says she will sign the UN Weapons Ban. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:46, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::First off, wow, this got ugly fast. And second, I think the Dems may be a little smarter now when it comes to gun control after they saw what happened to Al Gore after him and Clinton went a little too far (Florida wouldn't have mattered as much of Gore had actually won his home state.) Ironically, Barry is probably the best thing to happen to the gun industry in a long time. Sales went through the roof after he got elected due to the perception that he's going to go nuts on gun rights. Sure, he had the record, but I think he has bigger fish to fry (two simultaneous wars, horrible unemployment, the fact that none of his promised hope and/or change has come about, etc) , and as we have seen here, he may risk alienating the more socially conservative people in his party if he goes too far, like all the union-loving yet gun-happy Dems in Michigan. (And the only states that allow unrestricted carry are Arizona, Alaska and... Vermont?!) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Yeah, I don't disagree that after the response to much of the anti-gun nonsense occurring in the first year of Obama's term, they've realized what a touchy subject people's right to keep and bear arms is. Having said that, look at all the times that Obama and his administration have blatantly ignored the wishes of the American people. As for Democrat senators, I think they're starting to realize that it's not politically wise to be anti-gun, except for in a few liberal bastions in the country (shitholes like Chicago, New Jersey [which, I too, escaped, decades, and am thankful to have left], New York, California, etc.) where people who care for their rights are far outnumbered by those who want government handouts.<br />
As for the 'bigger fish to fry' argument, I disagree. Look at all that Obama's socialist regime has done in the name of 'safekeeping the citizenry. It'll come in some way that you don't expect if he has time to get to it; it's not like he's been spending any time on those 'bigger fish' he ought be frying.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:55, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, aside from healthcare, which might not last long beyond January 8th, 2011, he's really got nothing else to tout. Yes, he has a Nobel Peace Prize. But to be fair, he only got it after he pulled us out of both Iraq and Afghanistan, closed the prison at Gitmo, allowed gay to marry and openly serve in the military and-- oh wait, that's right, he's done none of those things. And everybody on Fox News, Tea Party yahoos in a tricorner hats, Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh will remind everyone of that until November of 2012. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:07, 12 July 2010 (UTC) <br />
::I was more talking about all the environmental bullshit he's done (requiring a ridiculous 35 mpg average by what, 2016?), all the nutrition crap he's done (requiring businesses to put nutrition info on the menu), the whole attack against cloves (which is weird because all cloves were banned by the administration because the flavors were deemed marketing to kids, but for some reason, menthol flavoring is okay), and the fact that he's still pushing cap and trade even when 'global warming' is based on flimsy science and questionable datasets. Has he accomplished anything? Hell no, except to piss of a large portion of the electorate. The thing is, it doesn't seem to me like he's paying any attention to the things that are on his plate (the failing economy, the two wars, the Russians constantly invading our or Canada's airspace, the North Koreans trying to restart the Korean War proper, the Iranians with their nukes, the Venezualans seizing American property, the Oil Spill, the Immigration issue, etc.), so I question what he's spending his days doing. Surely, he can't be filling them entirely with fundraising, golfing, and throwing expensive and lavish parties on my tax dollar. What I'm implying is that the president is scheming something.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I'm from New Jersey, and I completely understand the way you feel. I'm just saying that it isn't only Liberals who are fucking with yours, mine, and everyone elses gun rights.<br />
:Ah the Democratic People's Republic of New Jersey, where slingshots, pellet guns, and rubber band guns are considered firearms and require a permit to purchase. I'm so glad I got out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I live in Oregon, a state that has been very consistantly liberal on most subjects, but has fairly pro-gun rights firearms laws. Gun rights are much more of a geographic issue than a party one. Last year a failed amendment to a bill that would have made concealed carry permits from one state valid in all states failed by only two or three votes. Many southern and western democrats supported this bill while many north-eastern republicans opposed it. Also, as a centrist who identifies with the Libertarians more than anyone else, I think this discussion has become a little bit too polarizing and mean-spirited. This is a valid debate, but I think withholding some of the more inflammatory language would greatly improve the tone of the discussion. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Colbert_Report,_The&diff=299680Talk:Colbert Report, The2010-07-12T13:16:22Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>How ironic we have a page for a left wing antigun jerk like Colbert on IMFDB :)<br />
:And say what you will about Colbert, but at least he's not a hypocrite. Look at how much space we've devoted to Sylvester Stallone. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
what exactly makes him a jerk? Just because he's not a conservative gun nut?<br />
<br />
<br />
We better put some kind of disclaimer on the page, since we're all humorless right wing gun nuts and any illusion of this being any kind of impartial catalog of weapons in film and television went out the fucking window a long time ago.<br />
<br />
- Yeah, sure. Why not? :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, ironic that a couple of anonymous douchbags [[User:69.152.170.239]] and [[User:70.111.177.84]] spout anti gun left wing sarcasm. Nice to know that the rest of us are "fascists" in your eyes. I wonder why those gun hating folks even POST HERE! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Name anything I've said that's "anti-gun." You're just ranting and raving about things that have no bearing on reality. And the way you guys go on about the conspiracies of liberals and "the left" to come take your guns away is embarassing, and nothing to do with me. I'm only anti-raving hypocrite who pretends to run an impartial encyclopedia. --[[User:TheSouthpawOutlaw|TheSouthpawOutlaw]] 23:46, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, I love guns. I'm a firm supporter of the second ammendment. The only catch is that I'm also a proud liberal, atheist, pro gay marriage and all of the other stuff. Just because I don't preach from the bible of Beck and Limbaugh doesn't mean I'm a communist-socialist-facsist-or any other scary sounding word ending in "ist". I am liberal and love guns, and I also despise the constant right-wing rhetoric that surrounds the whole "gun-culture". I think it hurts the us all because a lot of people have this stereo-typical view of gun-owners as ignorant rednecks and it alienates the shooters who think differently and it scares away the non-shooters. I don't hate conservatives, just the extreme ones who spout non-sense at anyone who disagrees with them. This ain't directed at anyone in particular,just a general statement/ ShootingLiberal<br />
<br />
::Uh, no. The gun owning crowd are NOT far right rednecks, but the damned LIBERALS sure like to make sure that this shallow stereotype is all that people recognize. Sorry, but being a proud card carrying Liberal and supporting guns is a contradiction, since Liberals by their philosophy see government as the best caretaker of the population, whereas the conservative sees the individual as the best caretaker of himself. Gun ownership is contradictory to the power of the state if the state wants all the power. Your quote was incredibly stupid and douchebaggy. Criticizing US as being humorless right wing gun nuts? The LEFT has no sense of humor (and your post proves it). Also quit being a douchebag and stop posting anonymously. All of our worst contributors pop in anonymously, type ridiculous posts and then either leave or are banned. Thanks for listening. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." - Barack Obama, 2008. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:18, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::^This. Seriously, I love how liberals like to pretend that gun owners are knuckle dragging idiots. Except, of course, when they're a gun owner; then they're responsible but everyone else can't be trusted. I absolutely agree, as well, that liberalism (much like socialism, communism, and marxism) views the government as the group best equipped to act as caretaker for the whole populace. Let's look at Obama's policies for a quick case in point; they're better equipped to determine prices of private goods, they're better equipped to determine what's best for you (you gotta buy that health insurance or pay a fine), they're best equipped to run private car manufacturers, they're best equipped to give out student loans, they're best equipped to run banks, etc. By the way, I especially enjoy how, when something occurs that actually lies in the purview of what the government is supposedly best equipped to handle, they botch it ridiculously (oil spill). Gun ownership goes against the liberal belief that the people best equipped to use firearms are, of course, chosen by the government. And the fact that you live such a contradictory lifestyle raises questions about your own willful ignorance.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 03:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:- Oh goody, political bullshit. Not that I disagree really, but.. Bah. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:51, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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^ Me and him (ShootingLiberal) are in the same boat, 'cept I'm a agnostic [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I knew there was something I didn't like about you! ;) LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Oh crap, the guy with the warehouse full of guns doesn't like me [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:20, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Naw, just a nauseated feeling of suspicion and distrust. Don't worry. I believe in the first amendment. You can believe whatever you want. But that crack sounds kinda like that 'this guy is dangerous because he has a lot of guns' crap that a lot of gun haters spout. Just noting ;) MPM<br />
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Oh, not at all. It a simple jibe is all. I apologize for the misunderstanding [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 05:23, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh, Okay! :) Cool. But it's true.... I AM dangerous (quote from Top Gun) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hoplite, we'll just use Obama's secret rights-stealing task force to take his guns.<br />
:: Hahahaha. Just what I expected! ;) MPM<br />
<br />
and MPM2008: You are completely over-reacting to what I'm trying to say. Not all liberals are communist, vegetarian, demons hell bent on turning the USA into the USSR. I believe in what Liberals believe, there are actually a lot of people like us, on specified boards and other gun forums. I've heard of tons of libs and moderates being afraid to identify themselves as such because they fear the backlash they might recieve. I just recently saw a confessed liberal getting ripped on 1911forums.com just for having it in his username, his post was about Military 1911's, nothing political to it and he still got ripped. Take a trip over to theliberalgunclub.org and you'll find that we enjoy guns just as much you or anyone else. There really is a conservative taste to the culture of gun-owners in America, a trip to any forum or gun range will show you that. It alienates many and scares off even more./ Shooting Liberal<br />
::Well it's gotta be EXPECTED, being that Liberals are the PERSECUTORS of gun owners. Kinda like being a German and a NSDAP member in a Jewish community in the 1930s and saying "Hey! I don't like how I have to hide the fact that I'm a German AND an NSDAP member" Doh! Or did you forget that Liberals are the backbone of the gun prohibition movement? It's got to be expected. How can you guys expect anything else? Sorry about that. I don't bash Liberals in my many OTHER forums because it's not an issue. I am in many forums for filmmaking, technical aspects of film, special effects, film editing. Personally I don't care what a person's politics are. But consider that anti gun LIBERALS (yes I said it) have driven MOST of the movie armorers out of business, have driven most of the movie industry OUT of the U.S. (mostly due to their rampant love of taxation and red tape and anti business bias) and seek (indirectly mind you) to eliminate guns in films in general. Kinda ironic eh? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: It's not limited to driving firearms out of Hollywood, either. Liberals have been doing their best to destroy the people's ability and God-given right to keep and bear arms for decades. Recall the attempt to allow gun manufacturers to be sued for what their product was used for (no other product in America carries the same rules), the repeated attempts at standardizing ridiculous, ineffective, and prohibitively expensive 'safety' devices that make no one more safe, and, of course, the liberal leadership on the fight to destroy the gun show through various ridiculous methos, even though all data suggests criminals get their firearms from burglary more than anywhere else. 'Shooting Liberal', you're deluding yourself, and I suggest you look around you, because with every vote you cast for some liberal jackass, you're destroying your right to keep and bear arms.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::By the way, liberalism is, in of itself, basically nanny-statism, and any nanny-state will eventually demand the firearms of their serfs. Liberalism makes everyone equally miserable except for the well-connected and political, much like communism. And, of course, there's that whole 'share the wealth' bullshit, because apparently I deserve to be taxed for creating jobs and making a legitimate wage so that someone can sit at home and watch cable TV or gamble at a casino with my tax dollars. Liberalism and the anti-gun agenda go hand in hand, and if you disagree, you're ignoring it.<br />
<br />
You know, it's not only liberals who go forward with this anti-gun stuff. You'd be surprised how many Republicans support some of these gun control measures. Plus, since our Liberal president took office, your gun rights have actually grown. Now you can carry in a National park and transport firearms on an amtrak. Like I said earlier, a lot of Liberals are no where near what you think, we are people too :) and some of us are adament supporters of the right to bear arms<br />
::WTF? Obama would NEVER increase gun rights on his own. The National park carry was PUSHED by Republicans! (and some pro gun Democrats). But I don't bash Obama for gun control, he hasn't done any (in fact you'll never find a bash on him by me anywhere on this site) Where do you live? It depends a lot on where you call home. In California we have a LOT of liberal fascists (i.e. liberals who are evil and crush all dissent). I have liberal friends who are HONEST liberals (i.e. they may have an opinion but they support the rights of others to have different opinions), but in SAN FRANCISCO and LALA land (especially the Hollywood crowd), the Liberals are intolerant bullies. I suppose that skews one's view of them. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Also, Obama didn't have any fingerprint on the law allowing carry in a national park. That was written and signed into law during the Bush administration; when Obama took power, he immediately halted it, and then it was reintroduced and re-signed later along with a bunch of other socialist things Obama wanted. AMTRAK legislation was ony passed because what it was attached to was a big part of Obama's agenda to destroy this country and strip people of as many freedoms as possible. Don't sit there and kid yourself, thinking Obama is a fan of the second amendment. He is not, by any stretch, a fan of your right to keep and bear arms. If you think he is, you're delusional. And as for 'republicans' who are anti-gun, note also that their voting records often reflect being more D than R, much like Arlen Specter. Just because you call yourself a Republican doesn't make you one. On the other hand, liberals are all against 2nd amendment rights, because you're too stupid to be able to handle such a dangerous item, but the people the government chooses for police departments are not.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::PS.You seem to have conveniently forgotten the things Obama has done trying to destroy the right to keep and bear arms, including the attemtped scapegoating for the drug war in Mexico, the destruction of brass, and the fact that Hillary Clinton says she will sign the UN Weapons Ban. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:46, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::First off, wow, this got ugly fast. And second, I think the Dems may be a little smarter now when it comes to gun control after they saw what happened to Al Gore after him and Clinton went a little too far (Florida wouldn't have mattered as much of Gore had actually won his home state.) Ironically, Barry is probably the best thing to happen to the gun industry in a long time. Sales went through the roof after he got elected due to the perception that he's going to go nuts on gun rights. Sure, he had the record, but I think he has bigger fish to fry (two simultaneous wars, horrible unemployment, the fact that none of his promised hope and/or change has come about, etc) , and as we have seen here, he may risk alienating the more socially conservative people in his party if he goes too far, like all the union-loving yet gun-happy Dems in Michigan. (And the only states that allow unrestricted carry are Arizona, Alaska and... Vermont?!) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Yeah, I don't disagree that after the response to much of the anti-gun nonsense occurring in the first year of Obama's term, they've realized what a touchy subject people's right to keep and bear arms is. Having said that, look at all the times that Obama and his administration have blatantly ignored the wishes of the American people. As for Democrat senators, I think they're starting to realize that it's not politically wise to be anti-gun, except for in a few liberal bastions in the country (shitholes like Chicago, New Jersey [which, I too, escaped, decades, and am thankful to have left], New York, California, etc.) where people who care for their rights are far outnumbered by those who want government handouts.<br />
As for the 'bigger fish to fry' argument, I disagree. Look at all that Obama's socialist regime has done in the name of 'safekeeping the citizenry. It'll come in some way that you don't expect if he has time to get to it; it's not like he's been spending any time on those 'bigger fish' he ought be frying.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:55, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, aside from healthcare, which might not last long beyond January 8th, 2011, he's really got nothing else to tout. Yes, he has a Nobel Peace Prize. But to be fair, he only got it after he pulled us out of both Iraq and Afghanistan, closed the prison at Gitmo, allowed gay to marry and openly serve in the military and-- oh wait, that's right, he's done none of those things. And everybody on Fox News, Tea Party yahoos in a tricorner hats, Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh will remind everyone of that until November of 2012. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:07, 12 July 2010 (UTC) <br />
::I was more talking about all the environmental bullshit he's done (requiring a ridiculous 35 mpg average by what, 2016?), all the nutrition crap he's done (requiring businesses to put nutrition info on the menu), the whole attack against cloves (which is weird because all cloves were banned by the administration because the flavors were deemed marketing to kids, but for some reason, menthol flavoring is okay), and the fact that he's still pushing cap and trade even when 'global warming' is based on flimsy science and questionable datasets. Has he accomplished anything? Hell no, except to piss of a large portion of the electorate. The thing is, it doesn't seem to me like he's paying any attention to the things that are on his plate (the failing economy, the two wars, the Russians constantly invading our or Canada's airspace, the North Koreans trying to restart the Korean War proper, the Iranians with their nukes, the Venezualans seizing American property, the Oil Spill, the Immigration issue, etc.), so I question what he's spending his days doing. Surely, he can't be filling them entirely with fundraising, golfing, and throwing expensive and lavish parties on my tax dollar. What I'm implying is that the president is scheming something.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:16, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm from New Jersey, and I completely understand the way you feel. I'm just saying that it isn't only Liberals who are fucking with yours, mine, and everyone elses gun rights.<br />
:Ah the Democratic People's Republic of New Jersey, where slingshots, pellet guns, and rubber band guns are considered firearms and require a permit to purchase. I'm so glad I got out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I live in Oregon, a state that has been very consistantly liberal on most subjects, but has fairly pro-gun rights firearms laws. Gun rights are much more of a geographic issue than a party one. Last year a failed amendment to a bill that would have made concealed carry permits from one state valid in all states failed by only two or three votes. Many southern and western democrats supported this bill while many north-eastern republicans opposed it. Also, as a centrist who identifies with the Libertarians more than anyone else, I think this discussion has become a little bit too polarizing and mean-spirited. This is a valid debate, but I think withholding some of the more inflammatory language would greatly improve the tone of the discussion. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Colbert_Report,_The&diff=299368Talk:Colbert Report, The2010-07-12T00:55:00Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>How ironic we have a page for a left wing antigun jerk like Colbert on IMFDB :)<br />
:And say what you will about Colbert, but at least he's not a hypocrite. Look at how much space we've devoted to Sylvester Stallone. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
what exactly makes him a jerk? Just because he's not a conservative gun nut?<br />
<br />
<br />
We better put some kind of disclaimer on the page, since we're all humorless right wing gun nuts and any illusion of this being any kind of impartial catalog of weapons in film and television went out the fucking window a long time ago.<br />
<br />
- Yeah, sure. Why not? :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, ironic that a couple of anonymous douchbags [[User:69.152.170.239]] and [[User:70.111.177.84]] spout anti gun left wing sarcasm. Nice to know that the rest of us are "fascists" in your eyes. I wonder why those gun hating folks even POST HERE! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Name anything I've said that's "anti-gun." You're just ranting and raving about things that have no bearing on reality. And the way you guys go on about the conspiracies of liberals and "the left" to come take your guns away is embarassing, and nothing to do with me. I'm only anti-raving hypocrite who pretends to run an impartial encyclopedia. --[[User:TheSouthpawOutlaw|TheSouthpawOutlaw]] 23:46, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, I love guns. I'm a firm supporter of the second ammendment. The only catch is that I'm also a proud liberal, atheist, pro gay marriage and all of the other stuff. Just because I don't preach from the bible of Beck and Limbaugh doesn't mean I'm a communist-socialist-facsist-or any other scary sounding word ending in "ist". I am liberal and love guns, and I also despise the constant right-wing rhetoric that surrounds the whole "gun-culture". I think it hurts the us all because a lot of people have this stereo-typical view of gun-owners as ignorant rednecks and it alienates the shooters who think differently and it scares away the non-shooters. I don't hate conservatives, just the extreme ones who spout non-sense at anyone who disagrees with them. This ain't directed at anyone in particular,just a general statement/ ShootingLiberal<br />
<br />
::Uh, no. The gun owning crowd are NOT far right rednecks, but the damned LIBERALS sure like to make sure that this shallow stereotype is all that people recognize. Sorry, but being a proud card carrying Liberal and supporting guns is a contradiction, since Liberals by their philosophy see government as the best caretaker of the population, whereas the conservative sees the individual as the best caretaker of himself. Gun ownership is contradictory to the power of the state if the state wants all the power. Your quote was incredibly stupid and douchebaggy. Criticizing US as being humorless right wing gun nuts? The LEFT has no sense of humor (and your post proves it). Also quit being a douchebag and stop posting anonymously. All of our worst contributors pop in anonymously, type ridiculous posts and then either leave or are banned. Thanks for listening. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:::^This. Seriously, I love how liberals like to pretend that gun owners are knuckle dragging idiots. Except, of course, when they're a gun owner; then they're responsible but everyone else can't be trusted. I absolutely agree, as well, that liberalism (much like socialism, communism, and marxism) views the government as the group best equipped to act as caretaker for the whole populace. Let's look at Obama's policies for a quick case in point; they're better equipped to determine prices of private goods, they're better equipped to determine what's best for you (you gotta buy that health insurance or pay a fine), they're best equipped to run private car manufacturers, they're best equipped to give out student loans, they're best equipped to run banks, etc. By the way, I especially enjoy how, when something occurs that actually lies in the purview of what the government is supposedly best equipped to handle, they botch it ridiculously (oil spill). Gun ownership goes against the liberal belief that the people best equipped to use firearms are, of course, chosen by the government. And the fact that you live such a contradictory lifestyle raises questions about your own willful ignorance.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 03:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:- Oh goody, political bullshit. Not that I disagree really, but.. Bah. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:51, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
^ Me and him (ShootingLiberal) are in the same boat, 'cept I'm a agnostic [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I knew there was something I didn't like about you! ;) LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Oh crap, the guy with the warehouse full of guns doesn't like me [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:20, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Naw, just a nauseated feeling of suspicion and distrust. Don't worry. I believe in the first amendment. You can believe whatever you want. But that crack sounds kinda like that 'this guy is dangerous because he has a lot of guns' crap that a lot of gun haters spout. Just noting ;) MPM<br />
<br />
Oh, not at all. It a simple jibe is all. I apologize for the misunderstanding [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 05:23, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh, Okay! :) Cool. But it's true.... I AM dangerous (quote from Top Gun) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hoplite, we'll just use Obama's secret rights-stealing task force to take his guns.<br />
:: Hahahaha. Just what I expected! ;) MPM<br />
<br />
and MPM2008: You are completely over-reacting to what I'm trying to say. Not all liberals are communist, vegetarian, demons hell bent on turning the USA into the USSR. I believe in what Liberals believe, there are actually a lot of people like us, on specified boards and other gun forums. I've heard of tons of libs and moderates being afraid to identify themselves as such because they fear the backlash they might recieve. I just recently saw a confessed liberal getting ripped on 1911forums.com just for having it in his username, his post was about Military 1911's, nothing political to it and he still got ripped. Take a trip over to theliberalgunclub.org and you'll find that we enjoy guns just as much you or anyone else. There really is a conservative taste to the culture of gun-owners in America, a trip to any forum or gun range will show you that. It alienates many and scares off even more./ Shooting Liberal<br />
::Well it's gotta be EXPECTED, being that Liberals are the PERSECUTORS of gun owners. Kinda like being a German and a NSDAP member in a Jewish community in the 1930s and saying "Hey! I don't like how I have to hide the fact that I'm a German AND an NSDAP member" Doh! Or did you forget that Liberals are the backbone of the gun prohibition movement? It's got to be expected. How can you guys expect anything else? Sorry about that. I don't bash Liberals in my many OTHER forums because it's not an issue. I am in many forums for filmmaking, technical aspects of film, special effects, film editing. Personally I don't care what a person's politics are. But consider that anti gun LIBERALS (yes I said it) have driven MOST of the movie armorers out of business, have driven most of the movie industry OUT of the U.S. (mostly due to their rampant love of taxation and red tape and anti business bias) and seek (indirectly mind you) to eliminate guns in films in general. Kinda ironic eh? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: It's not limited to driving firearms out of Hollywood, either. Liberals have been doing their best to destroy the people's ability and God-given right to keep and bear arms for decades. Recall the attempt to allow gun manufacturers to be sued for what their product was used for (no other product in America carries the same rules), the repeated attempts at standardizing ridiculous, ineffective, and prohibitively expensive 'safety' devices that make no one more safe, and, of course, the liberal leadership on the fight to destroy the gun show through various ridiculous methos, even though all data suggests criminals get their firearms from burglary more than anywhere else. 'Shooting Liberal', you're deluding yourself, and I suggest you look around you, because with every vote you cast for some liberal jackass, you're destroying your right to keep and bear arms.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::By the way, liberalism is, in of itself, basically nanny-statism, and any nanny-state will eventually demand the firearms of their serfs. Liberalism makes everyone equally miserable except for the well-connected and political, much like communism. And, of course, there's that whole 'share the wealth' bullshit, because apparently I deserve to be taxed for creating jobs and making a legitimate wage so that someone can sit at home and watch cable TV or gamble at a casino with my tax dollars. Liberalism and the anti-gun agenda go hand in hand, and if you disagree, you're ignoring it.<br />
<br />
You know, it's not only liberals who go forward with this anti-gun stuff. You'd be surprised how many Republicans support some of these gun control measures. Plus, since our Liberal president took office, your gun rights have actually grown. Now you can carry in a National park and transport firearms on an amtrak. Like I said earlier, a lot of Liberals are no where near what you think, we are people too :) and some of us are adament supporters of the right to bear arms<br />
::WTF? Obama would NEVER increase gun rights on his own. The National park carry was PUSHED by Republicans! (and some pro gun Democrats). But I don't bash Obama for gun control, he hasn't done any (in fact you'll never find a bash on him by me anywhere on this site) Where do you live? It depends a lot on where you call home. In California we have a LOT of liberal fascists (i.e. liberals who are evil and crush all dissent). I have liberal friends who are HONEST liberals (i.e. they may have an opinion but they support the rights of others to have different opinions), but in SAN FRANCISCO and LALA land (especially the Hollywood crowd), the Liberals are intolerant bullies. I suppose that skews one's view of them. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Also, Obama didn't have any fingerprint on the law allowing carry in a national park. That was written and signed into law during the Bush administration; when Obama took power, he immediately halted it, and then it was reintroduced and re-signed later along with a bunch of other socialist things Obama wanted. AMTRAK legislation was ony passed because what it was attached to was a big part of Obama's agenda to destroy this country and strip people of as many freedoms as possible. Don't sit there and kid yourself, thinking Obama is a fan of the second amendment. He is not, by any stretch, a fan of your right to keep and bear arms. If you think he is, you're delusional. And as for 'republicans' who are anti-gun, note also that their voting records often reflect being more D than R, much like Arlen Specter. Just because you call yourself a Republican doesn't make you one. On the other hand, liberals are all against 2nd amendment rights, because you're too stupid to be able to handle such a dangerous item, but the people the government chooses for police departments are not.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::PS.You seem to have conveniently forgotten the things Obama has done trying to destroy the right to keep and bear arms, including the attemtped scapegoating for the drug war in Mexico, the destruction of brass, and the fact that Hillary Clinton says she will sign the UN Weapons Ban. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:46, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::First off, wow, this got ugly fast. And second, I think the Dems may be a little smarter now when it comes to gun control after they saw what happened to Al Gore after him and Clinton went a little too far (Florida wouldn't have mattered as much of Gore had actually won his home state.) Ironically, Barry is probably the best thing to happen to the gun industry in a long time. Sales went through the roof after he got elected due to the perception that he's going to go nuts on gun rights. Sure, he had the record, but I think he has bigger fish to fry (two simultaneous wars, horrible unemployment, the fact that none of his promised hope and/or change has come about, etc) , and as we have seen here, he may risk alienating the more socially conservative people in his party if he goes too far, like all the union-loving yet gun-happy Dems in Michigan. (And the only states that allow unrestricted carry are Arizona, Alaska and... Vermont?!) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Yeah, I don't disagree that after the response to much of the anti-gun nonsense occurring in the first year of Obama's term, they've realized what a touchy subject people's right to keep and bear arms is. Having said that, look at all the times that Obama and his administration have blatantly ignored the wishes of the American people. As for Democrat senators, I think they're starting to realize that it's not politically wise to be anti-gun, except for in a few liberal bastions in the country (shitholes like Chicago, New Jersey [which, I too, escaped, decades, and am thankful to have left], New York, California, etc.) where people who care for their rights are far outnumbered by those who want government handouts.<br />
As for the 'bigger fish to fry' argument, I disagree. Look at all that Obama's socialist regime has done in the name of 'safekeeping the citizenry. It'll come in some way that you don't expect if he has time to get to it; it's not like he's been spending any time on those 'bigger fish' he ought be frying.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:55, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm from New Jersey, and I completely understand the way you feel. I'm just saying that it isn't only Liberals who are fucking with yours, mine, and everyone elses gun rights.<br />
:Ah the Democratic People's Republic of New Jersey, where slingshots, pellet guns, and rubber band guns are considered firearms and require a permit to purchase. I'm so glad I got out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Colbert_Report,_The&diff=298924Talk:Colbert Report, The2010-07-11T13:46:00Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>How ironic we have a page for a left wing antigun jerk like Colbert on IMFDB :)<br />
<br />
what exactly makes him a jerk? Just because he's not a conservative gun nut?<br />
<br />
<br />
We better put some kind of disclaimer on the page, since we're all humorless right wing gun nuts and any illusion of this being any kind of impartial catalog of weapons in film and television went out the fucking window a long time ago.<br />
<br />
- Yeah, sure. Why not? :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, ironic that a couple of anonymous douchbags [[User:69.152.170.239]] and [[User:70.111.177.84]] spout anti gun left wing sarcasm. Nice to know that the rest of us are "fascists" in your eyes. I wonder why those gun hating folks even POST HERE! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, I love guns. I'm a firm supporter of the second ammendment. The only catch is that I'm also a proud liberal, atheist, pro gay marriage and all of the other stuff. Just because I don't preach from the bible of Beck and Limbaugh doesn't mean I'm a communist-socialist-facsist-or any other scary sounding word ending in "ist". I am liberal and love guns, and I also despise the constant right-wing rhetoric that surrounds the whole "gun-culture". I think it hurts the us all because a lot of people have this stereo-typical view of gun-owners as ignorant rednecks and it alienates the shooters who think differently and it scares away the non-shooters. I don't hate conservatives, just the extreme ones who spout non-sense at anyone who disagrees with them. This ain't directed at anyone in particular,just a general statement/ ShootingLiberal<br />
<br />
::Uh, no. The gun owning crowd are NOT far right rednecks, but the damned LIBERALS sure like to make sure that this shallow stereotype is all that people recognize. Sorry, but being a proud card carrying Liberal and supporting guns is a contradiction, since Liberals by their philosophy see government as the best caretaker of the population, whereas the conservative sees the individual as the best caretaker of himself. Gun ownership is contradictory to the power of the state if the state wants all the power. Your quote was incredibly stupid and douchebaggy. Criticizing US as being humorless right wing gun nuts? The LEFT has no sense of humor (and your post proves it). Also quit being a douchebag and stop posting anonymously. All of our worst contributors pop in anonymously, type ridiculous posts and then either leave or are banned. Thanks for listening. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:::^This. Seriously, I love how liberals like to pretend that gun owners are knuckle dragging idiots. Except, of course, when they're a gun owner; then they're responsible but everyone else can't be trusted. I absolutely agree, as well, that liberalism (much like socialism, communism, and marxism) views the government as the group best equipped to act as caretaker for the whole populace. Let's look at Obama's policies for a quick case in point; they're better equipped to determine prices of private goods, they're better equipped to determine what's best for you (you gotta buy that health insurance or pay a fine), they're best equipped to run private car manufacturers, they're best equipped to give out student loans, they're best equipped to run banks, etc. By the way, I especially enjoy how, when something occurs that actually lies in the purview of what the government is supposedly best equipped to handle, they botch it ridiculously (oil spill). Gun ownership goes against the liberal belief that the people best equipped to use firearms are, of course, chosen by the government. And the fact that you live such a contradictory lifestyle raises questions about your own willful ignorance.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 03:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:- Oh goody, political bullshit. Not that I disagree really, but.. Bah. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:51, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
^ Me and him (ShootingLiberal) are in the same boat, 'cept I'm a agnostic [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I knew there was something I didn't like about you! ;) LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Oh crap, the guy with the warehouse full of guns doesn't like me [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:20, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Naw, just a nauseated feeling of suspicion and distrust. Don't worry. I believe in the first amendment. You can believe whatever you want. But that crack sounds kinda like that 'this guy is dangerous because he has a lot of guns' crap that a lot of gun haters spout. Just noting ;) MPM<br />
<br />
Oh, not at all. It a simple jibe is all. I apologize for the misunderstanding [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 05:23, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh, Okay! :) Cool. But it's true.... I AM dangerous (quote from Top Gun) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hoplite, we'll just use Obama's secret rights-stealing task force to take his guns.<br />
:: Hahahaha. Just what I expected! ;) MPM<br />
<br />
and MPM2008: You are completely over-reacting to what I'm trying to say. Not all liberals are communist, vegetarian, demons hell bent on turning the USA into the USSR. I believe in what Liberals believe, there are actually a lot of people like us, on specified boards and other gun forums. I've heard of tons of libs and moderates being afraid to identify themselves as such because they fear the backlash they might recieve. I just recently saw a confessed liberal getting ripped on 1911forums.com just for having it in his username, his post was about Military 1911's, nothing political to it and he still got ripped. Take a trip over to theliberalgunclub.org and you'll find that we enjoy guns just as much you or anyone else. There really is a conservative taste to the culture of gun-owners in America, a trip to any forum or gun range will show you that. It alienates many and scares off even more./ Shooting Liberal<br />
::Well it's gotta be EXPECTED, being that Liberals are the PERSECUTORS of gun owners. Kinda like being a German and a NSDAP member in a Jewish community in the 1930s and saying "Hey! I don't like how I have to hide the fact that I'm a German AND an NSDAP member" Doh! Or did you forget that Liberals are the backbone of the gun prohibition movement? It's got to be expected. How can you guys expect anything else? Sorry about that. I don't bash Liberals in my many OTHER forums because it's not an issue. I am in many forums for filmmaking, technical aspects of film, special effects, film editing. Personally I don't care what a person's politics are. But consider that anti gun LIBERALS (yes I said it) have driven MOST of the movie armorers out of business, have driven most of the movie industry OUT of the U.S. (mostly due to their rampant love of taxation and red tape and anti business bias) and seek (indirectly mind you) to eliminate guns in films in general. Kinda ironic eh? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: It's not limited to driving firearms out of Hollywood, either. Liberals have been doing their best to destroy the people's ability and God-given right to keep and bear arms for decades. Recall the attempt to allow gun manufacturers to be sued for what their product was used for (no other product in America carries the same rules), the repeated attempts at standardizing ridiculous, ineffective, and prohibitively expensive 'safety' devices that make no one more safe, and, of course, the liberal leadership on the fight to destroy the gun show through various ridiculous methos, even though all data suggests criminals get their firearms from burglary more than anywhere else. 'Shooting Liberal', you're deluding yourself, and I suggest you look around you, because with every vote you cast for some liberal jackass, you're destroying your right to keep and bear arms.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::By the way, liberalism is, in of itself, basically nanny-statism, and any nanny-state will eventually demand the firearms of their serfs. Liberalism makes everyone equally miserable except for the well-connected and political, much like communism. And, of course, there's that whole 'share the wealth' bullshit, because apparently I deserve to be taxed for creating jobs and making a legitimate wage so that someone can sit at home and watch cable TV or gamble at a casino with my tax dollars. Liberalism and the anti-gun agenda go hand in hand, and if you disagree, you're ignoring it.<br />
<br />
You know, it's not only liberals who go forward with this anti-gun stuff. You'd be surprised how many Republicans support some of these gun control measures. Plus, since our Liberal president took office, your gun rights have actually grown. Now you can carry in a National park and transport firearms on an amtrak. Like I said earlier, a lot of Liberals are no where near what you think, we are people too :) and some of us are adament supporters of the right to bear arms<br />
::WTF? Obama would NEVER increase gun rights on his own. The National park carry was PUSHED by Republicans! (and some pro gun Democrats). But I don't bash Obama for gun control, he hasn't done any (in fact you'll never find a bash on him by me anywhere on this site) Where do you live? It depends a lot on where you call home. In California we have a LOT of liberal fascists (i.e. liberals who are evil and crush all dissent). I have liberal friends who are HONEST liberals (i.e. they may have an opinion but they support the rights of others to have different opinions), but in SAN FRANCISCO and LALA land (especially the Hollywood crowd), the Liberals are intolerant bullies. I suppose that skews one's view of them. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Also, Obama didn't have any fingerprint on the law allowing carry in a national park. That was written and signed into law during the Bush administration; when Obama took power, he immediately halted it, and then it was reintroduced and re-signed later along with a bunch of other socialist things Obama wanted. AMTRAK legislation was ony passed because what it was attached to was a big part of Obama's agenda to destroy this country and strip people of as many freedoms as possible. Don't sit there and kid yourself, thinking Obama is a fan of the second amendment. He is not, by any stretch, a fan of your right to keep and bear arms. If you think he is, you're delusional. And as for 'republicans' who are anti-gun, note also that their voting records often reflect being more D than R, much like Arlen Specter. Just because you call yourself a Republican doesn't make you one. On the other hand, liberals are all against 2nd amendment rights, because you're too stupid to be able to handle such a dangerous item, but the people the government chooses for police departments are not.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::PS.You seem to have conveniently forgotten the things Obama has done trying to destroy the right to keep and bear arms, including the attemtped scapegoating for the drug war in Mexico, the destruction of brass, and the fact that Hillary Clinton says she will sign the UN Weapons Ban. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:46, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm from New Jersey, and I completely understand the way you feel. I'm just saying that it isn't only Liberals who are fucking with yours, mine, and everyone elses gun rights.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Colbert_Report,_The&diff=298922Talk:Colbert Report, The2010-07-11T13:40:24Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>How ironic we have a page for a left wing antigun jerk like Colbert on IMFDB :)<br />
<br />
what exactly makes him a jerk? Just because he's not a conservative gun nut?<br />
<br />
<br />
We better put some kind of disclaimer on the page, since we're all humorless right wing gun nuts and any illusion of this being any kind of impartial catalog of weapons in film and television went out the fucking window a long time ago.<br />
<br />
- Yeah, sure. Why not? :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, ironic that a couple of anonymous douchbags [[User:69.152.170.239]] and [[User:70.111.177.84]] spout anti gun left wing sarcasm. Nice to know that the rest of us are "fascists" in your eyes. I wonder why those gun hating folks even POST HERE! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, I love guns. I'm a firm supporter of the second ammendment. The only catch is that I'm also a proud liberal, atheist, pro gay marriage and all of the other stuff. Just because I don't preach from the bible of Beck and Limbaugh doesn't mean I'm a communist-socialist-facsist-or any other scary sounding word ending in "ist". I am liberal and love guns, and I also despise the constant right-wing rhetoric that surrounds the whole "gun-culture". I think it hurts the us all because a lot of people have this stereo-typical view of gun-owners as ignorant rednecks and it alienates the shooters who think differently and it scares away the non-shooters. I don't hate conservatives, just the extreme ones who spout non-sense at anyone who disagrees with them. This ain't directed at anyone in particular,just a general statement/ ShootingLiberal<br />
<br />
::Uh, no. The gun owning crowd are NOT far right rednecks, but the damned LIBERALS sure like to make sure that this shallow stereotype is all that people recognize. Sorry, but being a proud card carrying Liberal and supporting guns is a contradiction, since Liberals by their philosophy see government as the best caretaker of the population, whereas the conservative sees the individual as the best caretaker of himself. Gun ownership is contradictory to the power of the state if the state wants all the power. Your quote was incredibly stupid and douchebaggy. Criticizing US as being humorless right wing gun nuts? The LEFT has no sense of humor (and your post proves it). Also quit being a douchebag and stop posting anonymously. All of our worst contributors pop in anonymously, type ridiculous posts and then either leave or are banned. Thanks for listening. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:::^This. Seriously, I love how liberals like to pretend that gun owners are knuckle dragging idiots. Except, of course, when they're a gun owner; then they're responsible but everyone else can't be trusted. I absolutely agree, as well, that liberalism (much like socialism, communism, and marxism) views the government as the group best equipped to act as caretaker for the whole populace. Let's look at Obama's policies for a quick case in point; they're better equipped to determine prices of private goods, they're better equipped to determine what's best for you (you gotta buy that health insurance or pay a fine), they're best equipped to run private car manufacturers, they're best equipped to give out student loans, they're best equipped to run banks, etc. By the way, I especially enjoy how, when something occurs that actually lies in the purview of what the government is supposedly best equipped to handle, they botch it ridiculously (oil spill). Gun ownership goes against the liberal belief that the people best equipped to use firearms are, of course, chosen by the government. And the fact that you live such a contradictory lifestyle raises questions about your own willful ignorance.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 03:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:- Oh goody, political bullshit. Not that I disagree really, but.. Bah. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:51, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
^ Me and him (ShootingLiberal) are in the same boat, 'cept I'm a agnostic [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I knew there was something I didn't like about you! ;) LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Oh crap, the guy with the warehouse full of guns doesn't like me [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:20, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Naw, just a nauseated feeling of suspicion and distrust. Don't worry. I believe in the first amendment. You can believe whatever you want. But that crack sounds kinda like that 'this guy is dangerous because he has a lot of guns' crap that a lot of gun haters spout. Just noting ;) MPM<br />
<br />
Oh, not at all. It a simple jibe is all. I apologize for the misunderstanding [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 05:23, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh, Okay! :) Cool. But it's true.... I AM dangerous (quote from Top Gun) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hoplite, we'll just use Obama's secret rights-stealing task force to take his guns.<br />
:: Hahahaha. Just what I expected! ;) MPM<br />
<br />
and MPM2008: You are completely over-reacting to what I'm trying to say. Not all liberals are communist, vegetarian, demons hell bent on turning the USA into the USSR. I believe in what Liberals believe, there are actually a lot of people like us, on specified boards and other gun forums. I've heard of tons of libs and moderates being afraid to identify themselves as such because they fear the backlash they might recieve. I just recently saw a confessed liberal getting ripped on 1911forums.com just for having it in his username, his post was about Military 1911's, nothing political to it and he still got ripped. Take a trip over to theliberalgunclub.org and you'll find that we enjoy guns just as much you or anyone else. There really is a conservative taste to the culture of gun-owners in America, a trip to any forum or gun range will show you that. It alienates many and scares off even more./ Shooting Liberal<br />
::Well it's gotta be EXPECTED, being that Liberals are the PERSECUTORS of gun owners. Kinda like being a German and a NSDAP member in a Jewish community in the 1930s and saying "Hey! I don't like how I have to hide the fact that I'm a German AND an NSDAP member" Doh! Or did you forget that Liberals are the backbone of the gun prohibition movement? It's got to be expected. How can you guys expect anything else? Sorry about that. I don't bash Liberals in my many OTHER forums because it's not an issue. I am in many forums for filmmaking, technical aspects of film, special effects, film editing. Personally I don't care what a person's politics are. But consider that anti gun LIBERALS (yes I said it) have driven MOST of the movie armorers out of business, have driven most of the movie industry OUT of the U.S. (mostly due to their rampant love of taxation and red tape and anti business bias) and seek (indirectly mind you) to eliminate guns in films in general. Kinda ironic eh? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: It's not limited to driving firearms out of Hollywood, either. Liberals have been doing their best to destroy the people's ability and God-given right to keep and bear arms for decades. Recall the attempt to allow gun manufacturers to be sued for what their product was used for (no other product in America carries the same rules), the repeated attempts at standardizing ridiculous, ineffective, and prohibitively expensive 'safety' devices that make no one more safe, and, of course, the liberal leadership on the fight to destroy the gun show through various ridiculous methos, even though all data suggests criminals get their firearms from burglary more than anywhere else. 'Shooting Liberal', you're deluding yourself, and I suggest you look around you, because with every vote you cast for some liberal jackass, you're destroying your right to keep and bear arms.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
You know, it's not only liberals who go forward with this anti-gun stuff. You'd be surprised how many Republicans support some of these gun control measures. Plus, since our Liberal president took office, your gun rights have actually grown. Now you can carry in a National park and transport firearms on an amtrak. Like I said earlier, a lot of Liberals are no where near what you think, we are people too :) and some of us are adament supporters of the right to bear arms<br />
::WTF? Obama would NEVER increase gun rights on his own. The National park carry was PUSHED by Republicans! (and some pro gun Democrats). But I don't bash Obama for gun control, he hasn't done any (in fact you'll never find a bash on him by me anywhere on this site) Where do you live? It depends a lot on where you call home. In California we have a LOT of liberal fascists (i.e. liberals who are evil and crush all dissent). I have liberal friends who are HONEST liberals (i.e. they may have an opinion but they support the rights of others to have different opinions), but in SAN FRANCISCO and LALA land (especially the Hollywood crowd), the Liberals are intolerant bullies. I suppose that skews one's view of them. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Also, Obama didn't have any fingerprint on the law allowing carry in a national park. That was written and signed into law during the Bush administration; when Obama took power, he immediately halted it, and then it was reintroduced and re-signed later along with a bunch of other socialist things Obama wanted. AMTRAK legislation was ony passed because what it was attached to was a big part of Obama's agenda to destroy this country and strip people of as many freedoms as possible. Don't sit there and kid yourself, thinking Obama is a fan of the second amendment. He is not, by any stretch, a fan of your right to keep and bear arms. If you think he is, you're delusional. And as for 'republicans' who are anti-gun, note also that their voting records often reflect being more D than R, much like Arlen Specter. Just because you call yourself a Republican doesn't make you one. On the other hand, liberals are all against 2nd amendment rights, because you're too stupid to be able to handle such a dangerous item, but the people the government chooses for police departments are not.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm from New Jersey, and I completely understand the way you feel. I'm just saying that it isn't only Liberals who are fucking with yours, mine, and everyone elses gun rights.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Colbert_Report,_The&diff=298779Talk:Colbert Report, The2010-07-11T03:30:25Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>How ironic we have a page for a left wing antigun jerk like Colbert on IMFDB :)<br />
<br />
what exactly makes him a jerk? Just because he's not a conservative gun nut?<br />
<br />
<br />
We better put some kind of disclaimer on the page, since we're all humorless right wing gun nuts and any illusion of this being any kind of impartial catalog of weapons in film and television went out the fucking window a long time ago.<br />
<br />
- Yeah, sure. Why not? :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, ironic that a couple of anonymous douchbags [[User:69.152.170.239]] and [[User:70.111.177.84]] spout anti gun left wing sarcasm. Nice to know that the rest of us are "fascists" in your eyes. I wonder why those gun hating folks even POST HERE! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, I love guns. I'm a firm supporter of the second ammendment. The only catch is that I'm also a proud liberal, atheist, pro gay marriage and all of the other stuff. Just because I don't preach from the bible of Beck and Limbaugh doesn't mean I'm a communist-socialist-facsist-or any other scary sounding word ending in "ist". I am liberal and love guns, and I also despise the constant right-wing rhetoric that surrounds the whole "gun-culture". I think it hurts the us all because a lot of people have this stereo-typical view of gun-owners as ignorant rednecks and it alienates the shooters who think differently and it scares away the non-shooters. I don't hate conservatives, just the extreme ones who spout non-sense at anyone who disagrees with them. This ain't directed at anyone in particular,just a general statement/ ShootingLiberal<br />
<br />
::Uh, no. The gun owning crowd are NOT far right rednecks, but the damned LIBERALS sure like to make sure that this shallow stereotype is all that people recognize. Sorry, but being a proud card carrying Liberal and supporting guns is a contradiction, since Liberals by their philosophy see government as the best caretaker of the population, whereas the conservative sees the individual as the best caretaker of himself. Gun ownership is contradictory to the power of the state if the state wants all the power. Your quote was incredibly stupid and douchebaggy. Criticizing US as being humorless right wing gun nuts? The LEFT has no sense of humor (and your post proves it). Also quit being a douchebag and stop posting anonymously. All of our worst contributors pop in anonymously, type ridiculous posts and then either leave or are banned. Thanks for listening. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:::^This. Seriously, I love how liberals like to pretend that gun owners are knuckle dragging idiots. Except, of course, when they're a gun owner; then they're responsible but everyone else can't be trusted. I absolutely agree, as well, that liberalism (much like socialism, communism, and marxism) views the government as the group best equipped to act as caretaker for the whole populace. Let's look at Obama's policies for a quick case in point; they're better equipped to determine prices of private goods, they're better equipped to determine what's best for you (you gotta buy that health insurance or pay a fine), they're best equipped to run private car manufacturers, they're best equipped to give out student loans, they're best equipped to run banks, etc. By the way, I especially enjoy how, when something occurs that actually lies in the purview of what the government is supposedly best equipped to handle, they botch it ridiculously (oil spill). Gun ownership goes against the liberal belief that the people best equipped to use firearms are, of course, chosen by the government. And the fact that you live such a contradictory lifestyle raises questions about your own willful ignorance.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 03:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
^ Me and him are in the same boat, 'cept I'm a agnostic [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I knew there was something I didn't like about you! ;) LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Oh crap, the guy with the warehouse full of guns doesn't like me [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:20, 11 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&diff=289631Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops2010-06-20T11:33:33Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Bad Feeling */</p>
<hr />
<div>This game has a cold war look to it<br />
<br />
==Should be==<br />
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!<br />
<br />
Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[SargeOverkill]]<br />
<br />
==E3==<br />
<br />
Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 . <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Not an AK-47 ==<br />
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.<br />
<br />
Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You appear to have missed the point of this website...<br />
<br />
AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
== Degtyarov ==<br />
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.<br />
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.<br />
<br />
<br />
==ummmm==<br />
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.<br />
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===<br />
== AR-10 ==<br />
<br />
Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4<br />
<br />
[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]<br />
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]<br />
<br />
:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10<br />
<br />
Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.<br />
<br />
:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.<br />
<br />
I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
<br />
: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.<br />
<br />
== Un-identified guns ==<br />
<br />
[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]<br />
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]<br />
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]<br />
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RPK ==<br />
<br />
From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.<br />
<br />
The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*<br />
<br />
No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.<br />
<br />
Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M1911==<br />
<br />
In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.<br />
<br />
It says "Sally" on the slide.<br />
<br />
The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG<br />
<br />
== Wait... ==<br />
Upcoming CoD,what what what?!<br />
--[[Special:Contributions/76.235.34.31|76.235.34.31]] 02:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== good decision ==<br />
<br />
As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.<br />
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)<br />
<br />
* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.<br />
<br />
Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.<br />
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''. <br />
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.<br />
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?<br />
<br />
I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.<br />
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.<br />
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.<br />
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]<br />
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MP5k ==<br />
<br />
You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?<br />
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.<br />
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Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D<br />
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun<br />
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat<br />
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Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.<br />
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Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining<br />
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"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.<br />
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.<br />
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You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.<br />
<br />
== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==<br />
<br />
It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''<br />
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:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.<br />
<br />
:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]<br />
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Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html<br />
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.<br />
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.<br />
<br />
The model 656 looked like this: <br />
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[[Image:model 656.jpg]] <br />
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It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.<br />
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I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed. <br />
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)<br />
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Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.<br />
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
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== Complaints ==<br />
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.<br />
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*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.<br />
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive<br />
Cache-Control: max-age=0<br />
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too.<br />
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:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***<br />
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.<br />
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''<br />
<br />
As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.<br />
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010 <br />
(UTC)<br />
<br />
Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.<br />
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.<br />
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".<br />
<br />
The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm<br />
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Unknown ==<br />
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010<br />
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Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it<br />
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moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010<br />
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== Carcano M91/38? ==<br />
<br />
The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== M16 and XM177 ==<br />
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[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
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Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.<br />
<br />
== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==<br />
<br />
Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns<br />
<br />
What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web<br />
<br />
* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Valment m78 == <br />
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
<br />
: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==<br />
<br />
[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]<br />
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.<br />
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Damn straight.<br />
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[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]<br />
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Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Prototypes ==<br />
<br />
Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.<br />
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.<br />
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.<br />
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.<br />
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M14==<br />
<br />
What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.<br />
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]<br />
<br />
Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
1. They'll Probably put it in.<br />
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.<br />
<br />
:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== AUG sans grip ==<br />
<br />
What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.<br />
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.<br />
<br />
::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor<br />
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor<br />
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.<br />
<br />
The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
<br />
In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."<br />
<br />
== OXM article ==<br />
<br />
Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:<br />
<br />
- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1] <br />
<br />
- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds. <br />
<br />
- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2. <br />
<br />
- The M202 FLASH is confirmed. <br />
<br />
- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them. <br />
<br />
- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer. <br />
<br />
- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps. <br />
<br />
- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."<br />
<br />
- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch. <br />
<br />
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !<br />
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.<br />
<br />
You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.<br />
:::Cool<br />
<br />
RC planes instead of predator missiles?<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Document from viral site ==<br />
<br />
Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]<br />
<br />
<br />
and also the delicious China Lake Launcher<br />
-Double Agent M<br />
<br />
:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== M202 FLASH ==<br />
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?<br />
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.<br />
<br />
:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
Here is what it shoots<br />
<br />
[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]<br />
<br />
Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
<br />
==Not being able to go past vietnam?==<br />
<br />
What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.<br />
<br />
[[User:k9870]]<br />
<br />
:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)<br />
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''<br />
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer<br />
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==<br />
<br />
Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.<br />
<br />
[[Image:DOC10.jpg]]<br><br />
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
<br />
== Still a little chance ==<br />
<br />
Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M16 on magazine cover ==<br />
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.<br />
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Is it bothering you that much?<br />
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.<br />
<br />
The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....<br />
<br />
vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true<br />
:That could be multiplayer screens<br />
<br />
== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==<br />
<br />
All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!! <br />
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))<br />
[[User:k9870]]<br />
<br />
At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:'''nerd'''<br />
<br />
At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.<br />
<br />
I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)<br />
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]<br />
<br />
== Snake ==<br />
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.<br />
<br />
== .357 ==<br />
<br />
A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.<br />
<br />
== Need the ingame footage please ==<br />
<br />
I want to see the footage but i'm to lazy to search for it, linky please.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Grenade Launcher ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...<br />
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260<br />
<br />
Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think<br />
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.<br />
<br />
== SPAS-12 ==<br />
<br />
Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....<br />
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...<br />
<br />
Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!<br />
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.<br />
<br />
<br />
Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...<br />
<br />
== "AR" Sling ==<br />
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.<br />
<br />
[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.<br />
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.<br />
<br />
Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More oticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.<br />
<br />
:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.<br />
<br />
== M16 ==<br />
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks. <br />
<br />
[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]<br />
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]<br />
<br />
I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Bad Feeling ==<br />
<br />
After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?<br />
<br />
Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.<br />
<br />
I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.<br />
<br />
-k9870<br />
<br />
With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.<br />
<br />
Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).<br />
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is<br />
<br />
IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.<br />
<br />
:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.<br />
<br />
Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?<br />
<br />
Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Goofs and screw-ups ==<br />
Alright no offense but SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The fucking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it. <br />
<br />
and P.S. For all a-holes who said MW2 sucks, (middle finger) FUCK YOU! Opinions are like ass-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.<br />
<br />
Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.<br />
<br />
:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.<br />
-One Man Army<br />
-Danger Close M203s<br />
-Commando<br />
-The Spawn system<br />
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)<br />
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)<br />
-Overpriced map packs<br />
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang<br />
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo<br />
-boosters galore<br />
-10 Prestige hack lobbies<br />
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage<br />
<br />
So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&diff=288565Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops2010-06-18T03:45:49Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Bad Feeling */</p>
<hr />
<div>This game has a cold war look to it<br />
<br />
==Should be==<br />
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!<br />
<br />
Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[SargeOverkill]]<br />
<br />
==E3==<br />
<br />
Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 . <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Not an AK-47 ==<br />
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.<br />
<br />
Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You appear to have missed the point of this website...<br />
<br />
AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
== Degtyarov ==<br />
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.<br />
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.<br />
<br />
<br />
==ummmm==<br />
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.<br />
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===<br />
== AR-10 ==<br />
<br />
Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4<br />
<br />
[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]<br />
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]<br />
<br />
:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10<br />
<br />
Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.<br />
<br />
:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.<br />
<br />
I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
<br />
: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.<br />
<br />
== Un-identified guns ==<br />
<br />
[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]<br />
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]<br />
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]<br />
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RPK ==<br />
<br />
From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.<br />
<br />
The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*<br />
<br />
No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.<br />
<br />
Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M1911==<br />
<br />
In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.<br />
<br />
It says "Sally" on the slide.<br />
<br />
The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG<br />
<br />
== Wait... ==<br />
Upcoming CoD,what what what?!<br />
--[[Special:Contributions/76.235.34.31|76.235.34.31]] 02:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== good decision ==<br />
<br />
As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.<br />
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)<br />
<br />
* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.<br />
<br />
Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.<br />
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''. <br />
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.<br />
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?<br />
<br />
I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.<br />
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.<br />
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.<br />
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]<br />
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MP5k ==<br />
<br />
You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?<br />
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.<br />
<br />
Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D<br />
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun<br />
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat<br />
<br />
Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.<br />
<br />
Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining<br />
<br />
"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.<br />
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.<br />
<br />
You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.<br />
<br />
== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==<br />
<br />
It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''<br />
<br />
:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.<br />
<br />
:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]<br />
<br />
Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html<br />
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.<br />
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.<br />
<br />
The model 656 looked like this: <br />
<br />
[[Image:model 656.jpg]] <br />
<br />
It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.<br />
<br />
I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed. <br />
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)<br />
<br />
Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.<br />
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
<br />
== Complaints ==<br />
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.<br />
<br />
*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.<br />
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive<br />
Cache-Control: max-age=0<br />
<br />
too.<br />
<br />
:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***<br />
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.<br />
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''<br />
<br />
As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.<br />
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010 <br />
(UTC)<br />
<br />
Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.<br />
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.<br />
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".<br />
<br />
The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm<br />
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Unknown ==<br />
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010<br />
<br />
Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it<br />
<br />
<br />
moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010<br />
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<br />
<br />
== Carcano M91/38? ==<br />
<br />
The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
== M16 and XM177 ==<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
<br />
Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.<br />
<br />
== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==<br />
<br />
Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns<br />
<br />
What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web<br />
<br />
* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Valment m78 == <br />
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
<br />
: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==<br />
<br />
[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]<br />
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.<br />
<br />
Damn straight.<br />
<br />
[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]<br />
<br />
Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Prototypes ==<br />
<br />
Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.<br />
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.<br />
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.<br />
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.<br />
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M14==<br />
<br />
What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.<br />
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]<br />
<br />
Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
1. They'll Probably put it in.<br />
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.<br />
<br />
:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== AUG sans grip ==<br />
<br />
What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.<br />
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.<br />
<br />
::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor<br />
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor<br />
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.<br />
<br />
The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
<br />
In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."<br />
<br />
== OXM article ==<br />
<br />
Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:<br />
<br />
- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1] <br />
<br />
- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds. <br />
<br />
- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2. <br />
<br />
- The M202 FLASH is confirmed. <br />
<br />
- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them. <br />
<br />
- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer. <br />
<br />
- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps. <br />
<br />
- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."<br />
<br />
- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch. <br />
<br />
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !<br />
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.<br />
<br />
You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.<br />
:::Cool<br />
<br />
RC planes instead of predator missiles?<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Document from viral site ==<br />
<br />
Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]<br />
<br />
<br />
and also the delicious China Lake Launcher<br />
-Double Agent M<br />
<br />
:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== M202 FLASH ==<br />
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?<br />
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.<br />
<br />
:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
Here is what it shoots<br />
<br />
[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]<br />
<br />
Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
<br />
==Not being able to go past vietnam?==<br />
<br />
What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.<br />
<br />
[[User:k9870]]<br />
<br />
:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)<br />
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''<br />
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer<br />
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==<br />
<br />
Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.<br />
<br />
[[Image:DOC10.jpg]]<br><br />
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]<br />
<br />
== Still a little chance ==<br />
<br />
Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M16 on magazine cover ==<br />
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.<br />
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Is it bothering you that much?<br />
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.<br />
<br />
The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....<br />
<br />
vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true<br />
:That could be multiplayer screens<br />
<br />
== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==<br />
<br />
All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!! <br />
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))<br />
[[User:k9870]]<br />
<br />
At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:'''nerd'''<br />
<br />
At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.<br />
<br />
I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)<br />
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]<br />
<br />
== Snake ==<br />
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.<br />
<br />
== .357 ==<br />
<br />
A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.<br />
<br />
== Need the ingame footage please ==<br />
<br />
I want to see the footage but i'm to lazy to search for it, linky please.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Grenade Launcher ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...<br />
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260<br />
<br />
Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think<br />
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.<br />
<br />
== SPAS-12 ==<br />
<br />
Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....<br />
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...<br />
<br />
Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!<br />
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.<br />
<br />
<br />
Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...<br />
<br />
== "AR" Sling ==<br />
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.<br />
<br />
[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.<br />
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.<br />
<br />
Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More oticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.<br />
<br />
:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.<br />
<br />
== M16 ==<br />
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks. <br />
<br />
[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]<br />
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]<br />
<br />
I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Bad Feeling ==<br />
<br />
After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?<br />
<br />
Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.<br />
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I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.<br />
<br />
-k9870<br />
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With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.<br />
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Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:S.W.A.T._4&diff=281370Talk:S.W.A.T. 42010-06-02T23:30:28Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Page Essentially Complete */</p>
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<div>Do we really need the smarmy gun owner commentary? Real mature guys. <br />
:Pardon me, but I have no idea what you're referring to. Are you talking about a specific passage in the article? Please sign your posts next time, too. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:31, 28 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Smarmy commentary has long been a problem on IMFDB, but frankly, I've gone through the page and I don't see it. I mean one 'could' go through and make really make ALL commentary as neutral and encyclopedic as possible, but this page looks pretty damned good in my estimation. If only ALL of the game pages looked like this one. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 16:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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=Page Essentially Complete=<br />
<br />
Page creator here. The page is largely complete with screenshots and tidied-up text, but if anyone can help with the last few concerns I'd be most grateful.<br />
<br />
:1. Is the AK-47 rifle ingame really an AKM rifle, given its slant-cut compensator?<br />
:2. What kind of shotgun model are the NPC-only shotgun variants based on?<br />
:3. Is there a specific variant that the Colt M1911 pistol ingame actually based on? From what I remember the original M1911s had only 7 rounds per magazine, not 8.<br />
--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I'd like to answer query 3. <br />
Any M1911 pistol can be loaded with 8 rounds. There are a myriad of magazines available with an 8 round capacity. And being a SWAT team and all, I'm sure they've decided they need that extra round in each mag. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 23:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Battlefield:_Bad_Company_2&diff=247116Talk:Battlefield: Bad Company 22010-03-19T11:33:56Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Engineer class */</p>
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<div>Is anyone else kind of pissed most of the weapons are from BFBC1?<br />
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not really, at least they made the ammo count realistic on this one. And they added a customization option so at least they have a little more variety.<br />
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I hope weapon damage will be as low as in BC1, because it will take more skill to kill.--[[Special:Contributions/178.92.236.41|178.92.236.41]] 07:24, 17 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Indeed. The way the weapons were balanced in BC1 was exemplary, and should be carried over to BC2.<br />
<br />
== Demo ==<br />
<br />
Well, i recently downloaded the xbox demo and i have a few questions: <br />
1) Can you play as American forces? 2) Can you have any gun other than the AEK-971? 3) And is there any location other than the arctic location? [[user:smish34|smish34]] <br />
:::1) yes, there there will be in the full game. I think your a merc in the defenders in the demo, not US. 2) just keep using the AEK you will unlock the XM8. 3) Not in the demo, but there will be jungle and forest maps in the full game--[[User:Sniperinthemist|Sniperinthemist]] 17:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::They're not mercs, they're US Army. Mercenaries don't have A10's or Bradley IFV,<br />
<br />
== M16A4 ==<br />
The M16 in Battlfield: Bad Company is clearly an M16A4. It should be obvious with a close examination of the knobs on the removable carry handle...even more obvious in Bad Company 2 when you put a reflex or ACOG sight on it and the carry handle is removed.<br />
::M16A2 with A4 upper? What ever.. They'll just call it eM-Sixteen.<br />
::I am the person who actually uploaded the picture of M16. Somebody left that it was M16A4 so that i just assumed that it is M16A2 because they all fires in burst mod, has detachable carring handle, and so on and on... I just don't know whether it is truly m16a2, or m16a4 yet.... ZZANG1847<br />
::The M16A4 has the same three-round burst trigger group as the M16A2. The M16A3 is the variant with the full auto trigger group.<br />
:Definitely an A4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:10, 2 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Lowar resivar has M16A2 markings.<br />
:::"Lower receiver", you mean. Learn to spell. The image shows a detachable carry handle signified by the round knobs on the right side of the receiver. That's an A4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/M16A4_Assault_Rifle read this before you throw around the word "Definitely around"<br />
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:Remember this. What the developers do is their business. And if they know NOTHING about guns, that is also their problems. We ID guns here on real world knowledge, not the confirmed knowledge that game developers tell the fans because most of the time the people who make the games don't know a damn thing about guns aside from that they make lots of noise and brass flying around. And I just looked at the image again from the screen cap. It IS more of an A4 because of the removable carrying handle. The A2, yes is burst, but the real world one is a fixed carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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:Like I said, Mr. Anon: '''Definitely''' an A4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:59, 6 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== VSS Red Dot? ==<br />
I heard you can get the VSS (and all other sniper rifles) with red dot sights, is this true? Anyone got a video or screenshot to confirm this. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
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its true, play the demo, theres 3 diffrent scopes for your rifle along with a spotter tool to mount ontop of the scope.<br />
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Sadly we don't get many guns or any attachments on the 360 Demo. no Beta for us you see. And off topic, but can someone lend me an acct so I can register as BC vet to get the F2000 on BC and the Garand on BC2? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
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== Engineer class ==<br />
<br />
Just clearing this up, just because most of the weapons in the Engineer class are SMGs, doesn't mean they've classified all weapons under that class to be SMGs. Same for BC1 where everyone thought they were mislabelling the assault rifles in the specialist class as SMGs. Engineers (and speciallists, in BC1's case) use silenced assault rifles too, as we've all seen.<br />
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then tell me why the devs tone down the smg of the "assault rifles" in the Smg class, weapons like the scar and ak74su should do much more dmg than an UZI or ump45, but there isnt a major diffrence they are both very weak. why do they do this? because to balance the game, they make it so the Engineer doesnt run around with a rocket launcher and a very powerful primary.<br />
:They differentiate AR's and SMG's in "Engineer" class. Assault rifles have medium range, power and submashine guns have everything low, but high rate of fire.<br />
:: UMP's damage should be higher. .45 is about twice the diameter of a 5.56 (.223). But they mislabeled a lot of things. Yes, the Scar, XM8C, the AN-91, and the AKS-74u are all assualt class weapons. The XM8C and the AKS-74u are compact or carbine versions of a bigger gun (XM8 and the AK-74).[[Special:Contributions/74.175.101.2|74.175.101.2]] 12:05, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
No the 5.56X45mm Rifle round should be much higher than that of the UMP. there is a reason why a friend of mine's SWAT team students are all switching to short barreled 5.56mm weapons insted of the MP5s they were useing. Looking at the results from testing with Ballistic jell the 5.56mm creates horrible wounds at SMG ranges even with a SMG lenght barrel. Reason being is that unlike the .45 which crushes it's way through a target the 5.56mm tumbles and fragments. Literally X-rays of a 5.56mm round have been described as looking like a snowstorm, it just tears up the target at close range.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:29, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:What about over penetration? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
Funny thing is that at least with FMJ rounds 9mm and .45ACP have more overpenatration of the materials used in modern housing than a 5.56mm round. As far as the human body goes the 5.56mm has little overpenatration when it comes to modern Law Enforcement bullet designs. As i said I have a buddy who trains SWAT teams and there are alot of practical reasons they are switching from the MP5 to members of the AR15/M16 family. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:43, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Funny thing is 5.56 rounds have been noticed to just punch tiny holes in people. A .45 round is like getting hit by a truck. 9mm rounds are also quite small and underpowered.<br />
No what is funny is that in ballistic testing the 5.56X45mm round produces much more impressive wounds than any handgun round unless you use ammunition designed specifically not to fragment. When the 5.56mm round first came out there were countries who though that the 5.56mm round produced horrific wounds due to it's fragmentary properties, at least until the US showed in testing that their 7.62mm NATO rounds acted the same way with a much larger bullet. Look up Fackler and Ballistic testing if you want the facts. Outside of a lab I have heard no complains from my various Military and Medical Professional friends. They all note that Rifle rounds kill better than pistol rounds. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 06:41, 12 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Go ask your friends or just read up somemore. 5.56 NATO wont fragment when shot from barrel shorter than 18". So your buddies have just good armor punchers, not stoppers. And not everyday outlaws wear ballistic vests of higher class of protection. Headshots save the day everyday though:)<br />
::::My friends use M4 carbines on live humans with and without body armor. I'll trust their judgement on the reason some of them happily turned in their M16A4 for an M4 carbine. I personally have used 5.56mm weapons down to 7 1/2 inches of barrel and there has been no problem with varmit control. Still the poster below me is right to say that to accuratly portray ballistic damage in a game would take something along the lines of a supercomputer programmed by a physics PHD pool and decades of study. Hell People are still trying to figure out the fine details about how bullets cause injury outside of just punching a hole in things.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]]<br />
:The 5.56 (NATO, at least) is a full metal jacketed round, so it's got significant penetrating power. It's also much sharper. It's main advantage, though, is it's velocity. Yes, it's true, the 5.56 is a small round, but that round is fired with around 1700 joules of force, while a general .45 ACP has between 400-700 joules of force. Federal Premium .45 rounds have 559 J of force. It's also true that 5.56 tends to tumble and create shredding wounds, but one of the main criticisms of the round is that it does so predictably. We can't use that example as reliably as we are. Just remember that the 5.56 fires 3 times as fast as a .45. You two are arguing about the "power" of the round, however. It's not really possible to create a single damage statistic for a bullet in a game and speak of realism. 5.56 rounds have been known to wound grievously, but not literally knock down targets as effectively as other rounds. A pistol round, while bigger, will not necessarily leave more effective wounds, but in some cases, that "stopping power" is more valued than the ability to wound. Now all the of the game's rounds, save some sniper and machine gun rounds, do not have bullet drop. This eliminates the biggest advantage of mid-size or full-size rounds over pistol rounds. Not only that, but all bullets travel at the same velocity in-game. Therefore arguing about a damage statistic would be difficult as you have to factor in many, many different facets of ballistics that simply aren't present in-game.--[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 01:38, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Remember penetrating power =/= brute force. During WWII, some Japanese soldiers would be hyped on painkillers, and the M1 would punch tiny holes, while a Thompson or a M1911 would knock them flat on their rear. Programming the tumbling factor in a game would be too hard to do, so wouldn't a lead weight do more damage than a needle? [[Special:Contributions/74.175.101.2|74.175.101.2]] 11:10, 16 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
They cannot properly replicate the terminal ballistics but they can demonstraite the fact that Rifles and Rifle rounds kill things better than Pistols or pistol rounds through programed damage. As far as any pistol round knocking someone flat that is impossible to do through physics or it would have knocked over the person with the Thompson or M1911. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 04:09, 17 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:being knocked over is basically dieing. The standard green tip 5.56 tears through people, only leaving a hole. For instance, if you have read Black Hawk Down, most of the Rangers remember that it took like 5 to 6 rounds just to kill a man, or knock him down for a moment. A .45 generally kills within the first 2~3 shots. [[Special:Contributions/74.175.101.2|74.175.101.2]] 11:01, 17 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Many stories of that came out of Somalia. I've heard stories of a D-boy who engaged a target twice in the chest with his rifle with the green tipped ammo, turned away for a second, turned back and engaged it again, and repeated this TWICE MORE. After that, he engaged the target with his sidearm and that seemed to do the trick. Moral of the story? Ammunition made for shooting armored targets doesn't work well on unarmored.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
While i am removing the blatantly racist comment the poster was right when they said that the Clan gunmen were high on a local form of Methamphetamine. What would normally have someone crawl off to bleed out somewhere had less effect than it should have. With people high on drugs unless you hit the CNS or they bleed out a hostile can still fight long past when they should have dropped. There are recorded cases of Iraqi insurgents takeing point blank bursts from the M240 on a bradley and still fighting. Thankfully in Somalia the Warlords did not have modern drugs in their systems.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:05, 17 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:That 'local meth' is called qat. Commonly pronounced like 'cot'. In Somalia, it's basically the national dish.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I remembered the drug thing right after I posted it, but even in Japan it worked that way, occasionaly...[[Special:Contributions/70.149.50.57|70.149.50.57]] 00:46, 18 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lefty side brass flying ==<br />
<br />
When I play Modern Warfare 2, it is good and the brass ejecting is on the correct side. I still don't see why some games like Bad Company would put the brass ejection on the otherside. It's even stupid for the M16 because the forward assist is on the right side while the shells eject from the left [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:It looks good and that's it. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 12:51, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Probably to look cool Rex095<br />
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:It's probably because they made it so that the gun takes up most of the bottom right of the screen, meaning if the ejections were on the correct side, they would not be visible unlike in CoD:MW2. They probably put it on the left side to A) not waste an animation of the gun cycling/shells ejecting by putting it on a side that no one will see due to the size of the gun and B) so that people can see and have another visual indication that they're firing (other than the flash of the gun and the people in front of them dying). In MW2 the guns size is small enough to be able to see the brass ejecting on the correct side.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:59, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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It's not so much that the ejection port's on the wrong side, it's that (almost) all the guns in game are completely mirrored. While it is odd, as "Gunkatas" pointed out it's probably to look cool and the other things that I'm not going to retype. What is interesting is that on the M16 (maybe others but that's the one I can think of off the top of my head) your character does hit the (now moved) mag release with his thumb as he pulls out the mag. So even though they mirrored it, they changed the animation accordingly, nice touch... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I havent seen vids of the new M16 in the game, but does the character tap the forward assist when he reloads? If he does, is the forward assist on the other side [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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No you rack the action when you reload, there's only one reload animation for everything, not mid-mag and empty ones like in Call Of Duty, sadly on most of the other guns, well, ARs and SMGs mainly, you never chamber the gun, just change mags. Oh and I just checked a video, there actually isn't a forward assist at all. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:51, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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The funny thing is that in the cut scenes, Marlo, the guy you play, has his XM8 with the shells ejecting from the left while the 2 other guys on the team with XM8s got theirs the right side. Then suddenly in another cutscene, the hole is on the RIGHT side![[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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Luckily the brass doesnt get in the way of sight or bothers you that much <br />
[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:::Yea, it just hits you in your virtual face)<br />
:::: I've noticed some guns do eject to the left. It is correct, as many of the guns are ambidextrous. While it should be configured for a right handed person (in game they use the left handed set-ups) so you don't get hit in the face. But the XM8, the Scar, and other guns, in real life, can be set up to eject the shell to the right. [[Special:Contributions/74.175.101.2|74.175.101.2]] 11:59, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I am not saying that they CAN'T be switched to eject from the left and right, but the fact that it IS ejecting to the left when the user is right handed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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== Looks like the cover to MW2 ==<br />
<br />
Does anyone think the cover of the game is like a joke to MW2 since it's almost the same. A soldier with his M16/M4 platform in his right hand walking away. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::Don't care.<br />
<br />
:::Who cares? BC2 looks amazing, and I can't wait till March 2nd, because even from the demo, I can tell it's going to rock any FPS gamer's world! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::Bad Co 1 didn't, why this would? Games are very similar, by the yay. Good thing it's for PC.<br />
::::Well the 100 health bar is gone, weapons do more damage, weapons have realistic capacities, vehicles and maps are balanced, new engine allows for 90 percent destructibility [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Page Revamp ==<br />
This page should be revamped as it contains a lot of shitty stuffs put by those anons.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== LIGHTHOUSE and othertings ==<br />
<br />
does anyone think the lighthouse on the M16/M203 secreenshot looks just like the lighthouse in half-life 2 when you drive the dune-buggy across the beach right at the end of tha level?<br />
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also i am really looking foward to the 4 guys from the first game being brought back, cant wait to preorder this . and when do i get the weapons, are they pre-loaded the on the game, sent to you by email or is there a code in the box when you get the game--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 12:33, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Ok, lemme look at the code so i could tell you.<br />
<br />
wow... you are gonna try to steal his code? nice try jackass... --[[Special:Contributions/184.35.20.249|184.35.20.249]] 17:07, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Just for the lulz, dood.<br />
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ok i'll letyou see...here we go...i'll give it to you now...F**K YOU. just joking i wouldnt do it anyway, and i havent got it so thats why i asked--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 18:31, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== AEK-971 early prototype - why? ==<br />
Because it looks cooler, and because DICE can [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::No, it doesn't.<br />
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:::Well yes it does Mr. Anonymous, I think it looks pretty good. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::::No. Should be this one[http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/001755/1755208.jpg]<br />
:::::*Throws up* Jesus! That barely looks like an AK! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::::::Or at least this [http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/001755/1755202.jpg]<br />
:::::::Alright, stop showing me these abominations! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
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== M93R or a Modified M9? ==<br />
<br />
Is the M93R really a M93R or is it a modified M9?<br />
--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:15, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::It's an M93R, you can tell by the frame mounted safety [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
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The saftey is slide mounted in the image,just look at the pic, it's a modded M9, plus the grips are wrong, 93r grips differ from the M9's these dont - Capain snikt<br />
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:alright then, seems another game fails at making M93Rs (this and MW2)[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::Piece in game has compensated barrel, folding forward grip, 3-round burst. -- It's Raffica variant, by all means not modded 92.<br />
:::What the heck is a "Raffica" variant? I know quite a bit about Beretta pistols, and I've never heard of any Raffica variant anywhere outside of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (and let's be quite honest, it was named that way to avoid copyright infringement). --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 20:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Then you should know that Berettas are Italian weapons. Try to open Italian-English dictionary. In designation M93R, "R" stands for "Raffica"<br />
:::Yes, but it has 92 grips and a 92 slide mounted safety. It's easy to get the compensator, grip and even burst mod onto a 92, but switching the safety is another thing entirely.<br />
::::Safety can be modded too. But I would say that frame + grip on the weapon pictured in the game was manufactured like this, not modded.(Of course, gun looks like this just because of laziness of devs)<br />
<br />
I'm guessing you are new to this site, This site goes by what the weapon looks like when it comes to video games, not specifications like its name in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:27, 4 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::And it LOOKS LIKE m93r more then 92 of any kind. <br />
<br />
:Indeed, and by IMFDB standards, that gun my friend is a modified Beretta 92, most likely an SB by the rounded trigger guard [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
Thank you, clearly a 92, just cus it swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, doesnt mean it actually is a duck. Its clearly lazy production design down to already havin a m9 skin for the pistols and doing a few adjustments rather than digitally designing a whole new pistol - captain snikt. (Oh and yes raffica is italian for burst, but the calling a 93r a raffica varient just reeks of COD over genuine knowledge.)<br />
<br />
:Indeed. The designers probably took the M9 skin, stuck a foregrip and extended mag on it, and they have their own not-really-a-Raffica. It is sloppy on their parts though, shame on you DICE! So I just unlocked it today, and it turns out the model you use in the game doesn't even have a foregrip! It just looks like a 92 with an extended mag! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::I though they re-skinned most of weapons since the beta. Such inaccuracies are a big minus for developers.<br />
:::Yessir, I think it's kind of cheap when you take a Beretta M9, Inox it, give it a high cap mag and call it an M93R, that's cheap game design. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
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Just look at the 93R and Glock 18 in MW2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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By that you mean the modded 92 and the modded Glock 17 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 21:24, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:My point exactly [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::Indeed, both of them are simply semi auto handguns with a few bits tacked on to make them look legit, but us gun people know the difference. When I saw the G18 especially, I asked "Where's the selector?" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::In Cod I remember a selector switch on the G18's slide...<br />
Wow, you remember wrong! No selector as its a 17, as the grips are also olive drab, which isnt available on the 18--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 14:13, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Let's just pretend that switch is on the right side if the slide, ok. And game set in the future so od finish might be possible.<br />
:Yeah, you go ahead and pretend, while the rest of us work on what's actually there in front of us so we can accurate do our jobs right [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
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Dude, th selector isn't on the right side as when your weilding the gun in your left hand (either akimbo or on the snowmobile) you see there is still no selector. Why dont we just pretend the magic fairies made it a Glock 18. And sign your posts, I wanna know who I'm proving wrong --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:43, 17 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Curse you anonymous users! Anyways, yeah, we're not going to just lie and say it's a Glock 18 for the hell of it. We get our guns corect on this site, and if you wanna be correct, the M39R in MW2 and BC2 is a 92, and the Glock 18 is a Glock 17, end of story. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
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Now this is just me but I'd say the first person view of the M93 is a converted Beretta Inox. Maybe this could be mentioned in the article?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
You can get a Glock 18 with a OD grip, check out team glocks website, you can even get a coyote tan frame. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:00, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, but I doubt Brazilian militia and such would have them sold the them by Glock. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== What the heck is the M1 Garand? ==<br />
<br />
It doesn't look like the M1, Is it a error on the designers part or is it another gun that the disigner thought was the M1 Garand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:22, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
~Uh, the Garand in BC2 looks like the M1 Garand to me mate [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:: Yeah, look at both pictures and try to find at least 5 differences. Either that is one of M1 prototypes or modeler got too much freedom and mixed M1903 or this[http://media.photobucket.com/image/m1%20garand%20prototype/Kotsoor/GarandM1921.jpg]with M1.<br />
::Shit, your right, that looks like a cross between a Garand and 1903 with a magazine that goes in the bottom, odd thing isn't it? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
Isn't that supposed to be a Type 5 (Japanese Garand)? It's used by the Japanese in the first single player mission and it has Japanese coat of arms on the receiver.<br />
:I think you just got it mate. When I saw it in the first mission with the lighter wood on the stock, I figured it might be that Japanese Garand copy that they only made like 7 of. Also, can anyone help me with this: When I go to register my BC2 on BF Vets, i click on it and it doesn't let me enter my GT, the little window to put your GT in doesn't come up, what do I do? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::Gimme your GT, i'll try it for you.<br />
No, that's not Type 5. It was exact copy of M1 except calibre, magazine(10 round integral mag vs 8 round en-bloc in Garand's rifle) and shape of sights. Japs assembled ~250. More parts were made though. The most sticking-out difference between in-game weapon and real M1 is gas-block and shorter piston pipe. Also, i just noticed, jap "Garand" in game uses that same en-bloc clips as M1 instead of being loaded by 2 stripper-clips.<br />
<br />
:That's what bothered me during the first mission. All the Japanese had M1 Garands. We can assumed they might have captured US weapons cause they are better than their own rifles, but they all have the Imperial Japanese emblem on the rifle. This was just weird to me until I researched that the Japanese did make a copy of the M1, but in so many numbers like this is somewhat strange. It is the first appearance of the Japanese M1 copy in a game. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::No, Japanese garands were present in other BF games. And weapon in game is indeed an M1 Garand with Imperial Seal on it and swapped rear sight.<br />
<br />
:::so it's a mish mash of a Garand and Type 5? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::::I just realized that the "mag" on the bottom is actually the Trigger housing for the M1 Garand. The only thing is, Dice made it slanted rather than flat...[[Special:Contributions/74.175.101.2|74.175.101.2]]<br />
:How do you screw up making an M1 Garand for a game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:: Well the in game model looks fine, just whoever drew or designed the picture for the weapons screen needs his eyes checked. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:It is kinda unlikely at all for the Japanese conservatives to impliment a semi auto rifle to compete with the US during the war. They were really old school and really believe the guns they had used beating the Russians and Chinese were good enough against the USA. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:::With their Arisakas they were just gettin' PWNED ANALY too badly by US forces with M1s. That made them shit on their "conservatism" and shamelessly copy Garand's rifle.<br />
:Them shamelessly copying the Garand was a step up for their current weapons. If these M1 copies were in full production, they might have started to have a chance against the US, that and if they had more SMGs [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::wouldn't have helpped much, take their "armor" for example<br />
:The Japanese had Armor? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
Also, they didn't screw up with the M1, they got "lazy" again, and just used the Type 5.<br />
@Excalibur They had "armor" to an extent, and it was trash. Basically tin cans with guns.<br />
:You didn't get my joke. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
== Proper reload animations ==<br />
What keeping game developers from making weapons in game function authentically to their real-life counterparts? Is that lack of info or dontgiveashitaboutitwillsellanyway or something else?<br />
: I would say "dontgiveashitaboutitwillsellanyway"--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.254|184.35.22.254]] 00:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The reload animation or lack of sometimes. A lot of the guns, when you are empty, you reload mag and just continued firing without pressing on any release or racking the charging handle, but the handguns, the slide doesnt lock back when empty and you rack the slide in mid reloads [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
:not to mention when you reload the Thompson mid-mag, you always lock back the bolt, which would eject the round that would be in the chmaber with a mid-mag reload. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::Tommy gun fires from an open bolt, if you forget. Bolt shouldn't be in forward position. What wrong is that when you reload mid-mag bolt locks forward, but no shot follows it(looks like a misfire, but a misfire everytime! C'mon..) , then you reload fresh magazine and rack the charging handle back with spent cartridge casing ejecting in meantime.<br />
:::Oh, well that makes sense, but in BC2 it just looks like he locks it back from the forward position. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::::Yas, they have only one animation, and that is for empty mag reload. Why it looks strange when you reload mid-mag i already noted above.<br />
:::::Yessir, racking the slide or bolt on a gun when reloading even mid-mag is just cheap game design, cool looking yes, practical no. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
<br />
same with the beretta 92. you empty the mag load a new one then pull back the chamber instead of releasing the chamber--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:57, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yeah, also, the servers today were down, and they've been messed up lately, DICE really needs to work on them. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== In game pictures? ==<br />
<br />
Can someone get some high quality In-game pictures of the weapons?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:11, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would, but currently all my capture stuff on in the epic fail section of things I own, so no go from me [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Server Fail? ==<br />
I'm not sure if anyone else has this problem, but when I backed out to the menu to join a squad today, when I checked my weapons and gadgets I had nothing unlocked, the only guns that even showed up were the default ones, and I was rank 1, yet my dogtags and scoreboard placing was still there, I also saw on EAs twitter that this problem has been widely reported, so has this happened to anyone else? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::You just answered your question yourself.<br />
<br />
::::I may have, but I mostly wanna know now if anyone had this problem and if it's been fixed? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::::It's fixed. But you gotta start unlocking everything again.<br />
::::::Your kidding me! Those idiots just lost me 17 hours of gameplay, unlocks and weapon stars, and they can't even restore it? Now I'm pissed, I think DICE and EA owe everyone who lost their unlocks something. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::::::::They don't own you anything. You already bought their game.<br />
:::::::::Yes, and the proceeded to basically ERASE 17 HOURS of gameplay and unlocks, that's complete and utter bullshit (pardon my french). [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::::::::::Some times i'll join a game and it'll show me not having anything, but after sitting there yelling angerly it eventualy shows my stuff.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.254|184.35.22.254]] 03:49, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::The same thing happened to be, I went on earlier, and all my shit was back again, so I guess EA must have fixed it, but to anyone who loses their stuff for good, that sucks amigos. Meanwhile, time to continue my "Quest for the VSS" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::::It's pretty fun to use. even when you don't feel like sniping you can just stap the red dot on it and use it like a VAL.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.254|184.35.22.254]] 06:11, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::9A-91 ~ AS. VSS is weak for CQC. Even SVU with RDS would be better. Heavy bullet of 9x39 cartridge flies by very curved trajectory - about 1m drop on 200m. Did devs got it correct?<br />
::::::::They got the drop about right.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.254|184.35.22.254]] 16:30, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I plan to use it as a Val stand it, as it seems pretty weak for sniping. When I wanna properly snipe, I go for the GOL or the M95. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== M1911 ==<br />
<br />
From in game pics isn't it the WWI model and not the A1?<br />
It has the shortened ejection port...<br />
::Yeah, and Beretta 93R is 92, and M1 Garand is miscarriage of m1903 and so on... Blame it on dontgiveashit "creative" modelers.<br />
:::Thing is, the game doesn't list the M1911 as the A1 variant, and it properly portrays the M1911. The M1 is quite accurate with the exception of the bottom mag. The M93R is a M93R, just silvered and the grip is folded up.<br />
<br />
::::Wrong completely on the M93R. The in game model has NO foregrip, not to mention a slide mounted safety and 92 grips. The designers literally took the M9 from the game, stuck a burst mode, silver finish and 20 round mag on it, and called it an 93R. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
== Differences? ==<br />
<br />
So I keep hearing that this game is amazing, but I've never played it, or any of the other games in the series. The only multiplayer FPSs I have on my console are Halo 3, and Modern Warfare 2. I'm thinking about getting this game, but can someone explain to me how the gameplay is different from MW2? Like, how experience, attachments, various equipment, and such is different? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:58, 13 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:-It's ALL about teamplay. Wanna win -- gotta help the common good. Although,you can play lonewofl if you watch so much.<br />
:-There are less weapon customisation. Only scopes and GLs. Weapon arsenal is more "realistic"(imao)<br />
:-Much bigger maps than MW2. <br />
:-Vehicles.<br />
:-MW2 vs. BFBC2? Both good.<br />
:-If you enjoy military FPS games, you definitely need to check it out.<br />
:-Watch some reviews.<br />
<br />
Okay, I'll probably get it. Still, less weapon customization makes me sad, and vehicles I'm kinda iffy about, but I'm glad that it's more team based. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 17:13, 13 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Not a whole lot of options for perks like MW2. People are harder to kill. You can blow up buildings completely to get rid of campers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
For the singleplayer aspect, I do highly recommending playing the first Bad Company to get to know the characters in the story. BC2's story isn't as funny as the first one. They left out a lot of humor for this whole seriousness mood. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
Eh, seriousness has it's upsides. And is every building in the map completely destructible? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 19:46, 13 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Just about, and it helps in MP, because M-COM stations can be collapsed instead of blown up, so that can be a good alternative. Also, I agree that story was less humorous, not to mention no "Rainbow Sprinkles" ad this time! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
::Another great tactic a friend and I have employed is to collapse buildings where snipers often hide, and to basically use mortart strikes to open the walls of building containing M-COM stations and other objectives. A friend and I, working as a two sniper team, managed about 50 kills last night without moving, simply because, with the SPOT perk, we were illuminating targets for people closer to them (and getting that sweet 20 points for basically looking in the right direction). --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:27, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I love those trailers of the first one. Rainbow Sprinkles, Bad World, and the Metal Gear Solid one. I also remember one where the camera guy talks and pisses them off. It was an early trailer [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
== The singleplayer story (Spoiler) ==<br />
<br />
Anyone who has played the singleplayer of the first Bad Company and then played this one scratching their heads? I assume this is a sequel, story wise. At the end of the first story the team rides off with a truck full of gold. And at the start of BC2, they are back in the fight and never mentioned their score of gold at all...Is there supposed to be an explanation for that? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::Probably spent it all on whores and booze.<br />
:::That's what I would do if I somehow procured lots of gold. Oh, and new guns, too. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 19:45, 13 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I think it acts like teh first game didn't happen, much.<br />
<br />
well they dissapeared in themiddle of a war-zone after going AWOL dont you think they would be either kicked out or in jail?, also i havent played it but is ti still funny like the first with the cool music in carsand stuff like that? [[user:smish34|smish34]]<br />
<br />
== rex and m14 ==<br />
<br />
In game the Rex's barrel looks lengthed.<br />
The M14 has 1/2 a magpul<br />
<br />
ALSO<br />
The M1 for the picture in the armory looks like the type 5.<br />
<br />
:Let's not forget despite claims of a 20 round magazine, the EBR in game only has a 10 round magazine. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
I find that the lack of a 20 round magazine and being unable to put a sight on it has ruined the gun for me. I was looking forward to using a ACOG with it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:31, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
and can someone get some ingame pictures of these guns?<br />
<br />
:Indeed, 10 round mags and not even Red Dot capable did it in for me. It's alright, but I prefer a proper AR. I heard the G3 was better, considering it has the epic HK sights, a 20 round magazine, and full auto fire. Though I noticed what I think is a glitch. Despite the weapon page in game saying it's unlocked at Rank 26, I've seen guys Rank 23 and 24 with them, and not as a stolen kit. What I believe now is you actually get it at Rank 22, which is Warrant Officer, why it's messed i the weapon screen is beyond me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
The M24 apparently was originally chambered for 30-06 MAGNUM, I got to get me one of those. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Battlefield:_Bad_Company_2&diff=247115Talk:Battlefield: Bad Company 22010-03-19T11:27:19Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Differences? */</p>
<hr />
<div>Is anyone else kind of pissed most of the weapons are from BFBC1?<br />
<br />
<br />
not really, at least they made the ammo count realistic on this one. And they added a customization option so at least they have a little more variety.<br />
<br />
I hope weapon damage will be as low as in BC1, because it will take more skill to kill.--[[Special:Contributions/178.92.236.41|178.92.236.41]] 07:24, 17 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Indeed. The way the weapons were balanced in BC1 was exemplary, and should be carried over to BC2.<br />
<br />
== Demo ==<br />
<br />
Well, i recently downloaded the xbox demo and i have a few questions: <br />
1) Can you play as American forces? 2) Can you have any gun other than the AEK-971? 3) And is there any location other than the arctic location? [[user:smish34|smish34]] <br />
:::1) yes, there there will be in the full game. I think your a merc in the defenders in the demo, not US. 2) just keep using the AEK you will unlock the XM8. 3) Not in the demo, but there will be jungle and forest maps in the full game--[[User:Sniperinthemist|Sniperinthemist]] 17:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::They're not mercs, they're US Army. Mercenaries don't have A10's or Bradley IFV,<br />
<br />
== M16A4 ==<br />
The M16 in Battlfield: Bad Company is clearly an M16A4. It should be obvious with a close examination of the knobs on the removable carry handle...even more obvious in Bad Company 2 when you put a reflex or ACOG sight on it and the carry handle is removed.<br />
::M16A2 with A4 upper? What ever.. They'll just call it eM-Sixteen.<br />
::I am the person who actually uploaded the picture of M16. Somebody left that it was M16A4 so that i just assumed that it is M16A2 because they all fires in burst mod, has detachable carring handle, and so on and on... I just don't know whether it is truly m16a2, or m16a4 yet.... ZZANG1847<br />
::The M16A4 has the same three-round burst trigger group as the M16A2. The M16A3 is the variant with the full auto trigger group.<br />
:Definitely an A4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:10, 2 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Lowar resivar has M16A2 markings.<br />
:::"Lower receiver", you mean. Learn to spell. The image shows a detachable carry handle signified by the round knobs on the right side of the receiver. That's an A4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/M16A4_Assault_Rifle read this before you throw around the word "Definitely around"<br />
<br />
:Remember this. What the developers do is their business. And if they know NOTHING about guns, that is also their problems. We ID guns here on real world knowledge, not the confirmed knowledge that game developers tell the fans because most of the time the people who make the games don't know a damn thing about guns aside from that they make lots of noise and brass flying around. And I just looked at the image again from the screen cap. It IS more of an A4 because of the removable carrying handle. The A2, yes is burst, but the real world one is a fixed carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
:Like I said, Mr. Anon: '''Definitely''' an A4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:59, 6 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== VSS Red Dot? ==<br />
I heard you can get the VSS (and all other sniper rifles) with red dot sights, is this true? Anyone got a video or screenshot to confirm this. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
<br />
its true, play the demo, theres 3 diffrent scopes for your rifle along with a spotter tool to mount ontop of the scope.<br />
<br />
Sadly we don't get many guns or any attachments on the 360 Demo. no Beta for us you see. And off topic, but can someone lend me an acct so I can register as BC vet to get the F2000 on BC and the Garand on BC2? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Engineer class ==<br />
<br />
Just clearing this up, just because most of the weapons in the Engineer class are SMGs, doesn't mean they've classified all weapons under that class to be SMGs. Same for BC1 where everyone thought they were mislabelling the assault rifles in the specialist class as SMGs. Engineers (and speciallists, in BC1's case) use silenced assault rifles too, as we've all seen.<br />
<br />
then tell me why the devs tone down the smg of the "assault rifles" in the Smg class, weapons like the scar and ak74su should do much more dmg than an UZI or ump45, but there isnt a major diffrence they are both very weak. why do they do this? because to balance the game, they make it so the Engineer doesnt run around with a rocket launcher and a very powerful primary.<br />
:They differentiate AR's and SMG's in "Engineer" class. Assault rifles have medium range, power and submashine guns have everything low, but high rate of fire.<br />
:: UMP's damage should be higher. .45 is about twice the diameter of a 5.56 (.223). But they mislabeled a lot of things. Yes, the Scar, XM8C, the AN-91, and the AKS-74u are all assualt class weapons. The XM8C and the AKS-74u are compact or carbine versions of a bigger gun (XM8 and the AK-74).[[Special:Contributions/74.175.101.2|74.175.101.2]] 12:05, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
No the 5.56X45mm Rifle round should be much higher than that of the UMP. there is a reason why a friend of mine's SWAT team students are all switching to short barreled 5.56mm weapons insted of the MP5s they were useing. Looking at the results from testing with Ballistic jell the 5.56mm creates horrible wounds at SMG ranges even with a SMG lenght barrel. Reason being is that unlike the .45 which crushes it's way through a target the 5.56mm tumbles and fragments. Literally X-rays of a 5.56mm round have been described as looking like a snowstorm, it just tears up the target at close range.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:29, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:What about over penetration? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
Funny thing is that at least with FMJ rounds 9mm and .45ACP have more overpenatration of the materials used in modern housing than a 5.56mm round. As far as the human body goes the 5.56mm has little overpenatration when it comes to modern Law Enforcement bullet designs. As i said I have a buddy who trains SWAT teams and there are alot of practical reasons they are switching from the MP5 to members of the AR15/M16 family. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:43, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Funny thing is 5.56 rounds have been noticed to just punch tiny holes in people. A .45 round is like getting hit by a truck. 9mm rounds are also quite small and underpowered.<br />
No what is funny is that in ballistic testing the 5.56X45mm round produces much more impressive wounds than any handgun round unless you use ammunition designed specifically not to fragment. When the 5.56mm round first came out there were countries who though that the 5.56mm round produced horrific wounds due to it's fragmentary properties, at least until the US showed in testing that their 7.62mm NATO rounds acted the same way with a much larger bullet. Look up Fackler and Ballistic testing if you want the facts. Outside of a lab I have heard no complains from my various Military and Medical Professional friends. They all note that Rifle rounds kill better than pistol rounds. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 06:41, 12 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Go ask your friends or just read up somemore. 5.56 NATO wont fragment when shot from barrel shorter than 18". So your buddies have just good armor punchers, not stoppers. And not everyday outlaws wear ballistic vests of higher class of protection. Headshots save the day everyday though:)<br />
::::My friends use M4 carbines on live humans with and without body armor. I'll trust their judgement on the reason some of them happily turned in their M16A4 for an M4 carbine. I personally have used 5.56mm weapons down to 7 1/2 inches of barrel and there has been no problem with varmit control. Still the poster below me is right to say that to accuratly portray ballistic damage in a game would take something along the lines of a supercomputer programmed by a physics PHD pool and decades of study. Hell People are still trying to figure out the fine details about how bullets cause injury outside of just punching a hole in things.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]]<br />
:The 5.56 (NATO, at least) is a full metal jacketed round, so it's got significant penetrating power. It's also much sharper. It's main advantage, though, is it's velocity. Yes, it's true, the 5.56 is a small round, but that round is fired with around 1700 joules of force, while a general .45 ACP has between 400-700 joules of force. Federal Premium .45 rounds have 559 J of force. It's also true that 5.56 tends to tumble and create shredding wounds, but one of the main criticisms of the round is that it does so predictably. We can't use that example as reliably as we are. Just remember that the 5.56 fires 3 times as fast as a .45. You two are arguing about the "power" of the round, however. It's not really possible to create a single damage statistic for a bullet in a game and speak of realism. 5.56 rounds have been known to wound grievously, but not literally knock down targets as effectively as other rounds. A pistol round, while bigger, will not necessarily leave more effective wounds, but in some cases, that "stopping power" is more valued than the ability to wound. Now all the of the game's rounds, save some sniper and machine gun rounds, do not have bullet drop. This eliminates the biggest advantage of mid-size or full-size rounds over pistol rounds. Not only that, but all bullets travel at the same velocity in-game. Therefore arguing about a damage statistic would be difficult as you have to factor in many, many different facets of ballistics that simply aren't present in-game.--[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 01:38, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Remember penetrating power =/= brute force. During WWII, some Japanese soldiers would be hyped on painkillers, and the M1 would punch tiny holes, while a Thompson or a M1911 would knock them flat on their rear. Programming the tumbling factor in a game would be too hard to do, so wouldn't a lead weight do more damage than a needle? [[Special:Contributions/74.175.101.2|74.175.101.2]] 11:10, 16 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
They cannot properly replicate the terminal ballistics but they can demonstraite the fact that Rifles and Rifle rounds kill things better than Pistols or pistol rounds through programed damage. As far as any pistol round knocking someone flat that is impossible to do through physics or it would have knocked over the person with the Thompson or M1911. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 04:09, 17 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:being knocked over is basically dieing. The standard green tip 5.56 tears through people, only leaving a hole. For instance, if you have read Black Hawk Down, most of the Rangers remember that it took like 5 to 6 rounds just to kill a man, or knock him down for a moment. A .45 generally kills within the first 2~3 shots. [[Special:Contributions/74.175.101.2|74.175.101.2]] 11:01, 17 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
While i am removing the blatantly racist comment the poster was right when they said that the Clan gunmen were high on a local form of Methamphetamine. What would normally have someone crawl off to bleed out somewhere had less effect than it should have. With people high on drugs unless you hit the CNS or they bleed out a hostile can still fight long past when they should have dropped. There are recorded cases of Iraqi insurgents takeing point blank bursts from the M240 on a bradley and still fighting. Thankfully in Somalia the Warlords did not have modern drugs in their systems.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:05, 17 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I remembered the drug thing right after I posted it, but even in Japan it worked that way, occasionaly...[[Special:Contributions/70.149.50.57|70.149.50.57]] 00:46, 18 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lefty side brass flying ==<br />
<br />
When I play Modern Warfare 2, it is good and the brass ejecting is on the correct side. I still don't see why some games like Bad Company would put the brass ejection on the otherside. It's even stupid for the M16 because the forward assist is on the right side while the shells eject from the left [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:It looks good and that's it. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 12:51, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Probably to look cool Rex095<br />
<br />
:It's probably because they made it so that the gun takes up most of the bottom right of the screen, meaning if the ejections were on the correct side, they would not be visible unlike in CoD:MW2. They probably put it on the left side to A) not waste an animation of the gun cycling/shells ejecting by putting it on a side that no one will see due to the size of the gun and B) so that people can see and have another visual indication that they're firing (other than the flash of the gun and the people in front of them dying). In MW2 the guns size is small enough to be able to see the brass ejecting on the correct side.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:59, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's not so much that the ejection port's on the wrong side, it's that (almost) all the guns in game are completely mirrored. While it is odd, as "Gunkatas" pointed out it's probably to look cool and the other things that I'm not going to retype. What is interesting is that on the M16 (maybe others but that's the one I can think of off the top of my head) your character does hit the (now moved) mag release with his thumb as he pulls out the mag. So even though they mirrored it, they changed the animation accordingly, nice touch... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I havent seen vids of the new M16 in the game, but does the character tap the forward assist when he reloads? If he does, is the forward assist on the other side [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
No you rack the action when you reload, there's only one reload animation for everything, not mid-mag and empty ones like in Call Of Duty, sadly on most of the other guns, well, ARs and SMGs mainly, you never chamber the gun, just change mags. Oh and I just checked a video, there actually isn't a forward assist at all. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:51, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The funny thing is that in the cut scenes, Marlo, the guy you play, has his XM8 with the shells ejecting from the left while the 2 other guys on the team with XM8s got theirs the right side. Then suddenly in another cutscene, the hole is on the RIGHT side![[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
Luckily the brass doesnt get in the way of sight or bothers you that much <br />
[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:::Yea, it just hits you in your virtual face)<br />
:::: I've noticed some guns do eject to the left. It is correct, as many of the guns are ambidextrous. While it should be configured for a right handed person (in game they use the left handed set-ups) so you don't get hit in the face. But the XM8, the Scar, and other guns, in real life, can be set up to eject the shell to the right. [[Special:Contributions/74.175.101.2|74.175.101.2]] 11:59, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am not saying that they CAN'T be switched to eject from the left and right, but the fact that it IS ejecting to the left when the user is right handed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
== Looks like the cover to MW2 ==<br />
<br />
Does anyone think the cover of the game is like a joke to MW2 since it's almost the same. A soldier with his M16/M4 platform in his right hand walking away. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::Don't care.<br />
<br />
:::Who cares? BC2 looks amazing, and I can't wait till March 2nd, because even from the demo, I can tell it's going to rock any FPS gamer's world! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::Bad Co 1 didn't, why this would? Games are very similar, by the yay. Good thing it's for PC.<br />
::::Well the 100 health bar is gone, weapons do more damage, weapons have realistic capacities, vehicles and maps are balanced, new engine allows for 90 percent destructibility [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Page Revamp ==<br />
This page should be revamped as it contains a lot of shitty stuffs put by those anons.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== LIGHTHOUSE and othertings ==<br />
<br />
does anyone think the lighthouse on the M16/M203 secreenshot looks just like the lighthouse in half-life 2 when you drive the dune-buggy across the beach right at the end of tha level?<br />
<br />
also i am really looking foward to the 4 guys from the first game being brought back, cant wait to preorder this . and when do i get the weapons, are they pre-loaded the on the game, sent to you by email or is there a code in the box when you get the game--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 12:33, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Ok, lemme look at the code so i could tell you.<br />
<br />
wow... you are gonna try to steal his code? nice try jackass... --[[Special:Contributions/184.35.20.249|184.35.20.249]] 17:07, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Just for the lulz, dood.<br />
<br />
ok i'll letyou see...here we go...i'll give it to you now...F**K YOU. just joking i wouldnt do it anyway, and i havent got it so thats why i asked--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 18:31, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== AEK-971 early prototype - why? ==<br />
Because it looks cooler, and because DICE can [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::No, it doesn't.<br />
<br />
:::Well yes it does Mr. Anonymous, I think it looks pretty good. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::::No. Should be this one[http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/001755/1755208.jpg]<br />
:::::*Throws up* Jesus! That barely looks like an AK! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::::::Or at least this [http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/001755/1755202.jpg]<br />
:::::::Alright, stop showing me these abominations! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== M93R or a Modified M9? ==<br />
<br />
Is the M93R really a M93R or is it a modified M9?<br />
--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:15, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It's an M93R, you can tell by the frame mounted safety [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
The saftey is slide mounted in the image,just look at the pic, it's a modded M9, plus the grips are wrong, 93r grips differ from the M9's these dont - Capain snikt<br />
<br />
:alright then, seems another game fails at making M93Rs (this and MW2)[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::Piece in game has compensated barrel, folding forward grip, 3-round burst. -- It's Raffica variant, by all means not modded 92.<br />
:::What the heck is a "Raffica" variant? I know quite a bit about Beretta pistols, and I've never heard of any Raffica variant anywhere outside of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (and let's be quite honest, it was named that way to avoid copyright infringement). --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 20:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Then you should know that Berettas are Italian weapons. Try to open Italian-English dictionary. In designation M93R, "R" stands for "Raffica"<br />
:::Yes, but it has 92 grips and a 92 slide mounted safety. It's easy to get the compensator, grip and even burst mod onto a 92, but switching the safety is another thing entirely.<br />
::::Safety can be modded too. But I would say that frame + grip on the weapon pictured in the game was manufactured like this, not modded.(Of course, gun looks like this just because of laziness of devs)<br />
<br />
I'm guessing you are new to this site, This site goes by what the weapon looks like when it comes to video games, not specifications like its name in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:27, 4 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::And it LOOKS LIKE m93r more then 92 of any kind. <br />
<br />
:Indeed, and by IMFDB standards, that gun my friend is a modified Beretta 92, most likely an SB by the rounded trigger guard [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
Thank you, clearly a 92, just cus it swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, doesnt mean it actually is a duck. Its clearly lazy production design down to already havin a m9 skin for the pistols and doing a few adjustments rather than digitally designing a whole new pistol - captain snikt. (Oh and yes raffica is italian for burst, but the calling a 93r a raffica varient just reeks of COD over genuine knowledge.)<br />
<br />
:Indeed. The designers probably took the M9 skin, stuck a foregrip and extended mag on it, and they have their own not-really-a-Raffica. It is sloppy on their parts though, shame on you DICE! So I just unlocked it today, and it turns out the model you use in the game doesn't even have a foregrip! It just looks like a 92 with an extended mag! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::I though they re-skinned most of weapons since the beta. Such inaccuracies are a big minus for developers.<br />
:::Yessir, I think it's kind of cheap when you take a Beretta M9, Inox it, give it a high cap mag and call it an M93R, that's cheap game design. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
Just look at the 93R and Glock 18 in MW2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
By that you mean the modded 92 and the modded Glock 17 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 21:24, 11 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:My point exactly [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::Indeed, both of them are simply semi auto handguns with a few bits tacked on to make them look legit, but us gun people know the difference. When I saw the G18 especially, I asked "Where's the selector?" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::In Cod I remember a selector switch on the G18's slide...<br />
Wow, you remember wrong! No selector as its a 17, as the grips are also olive drab, which isnt available on the 18--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 14:13, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Let's just pretend that switch is on the right side if the slide, ok. And game set in the future so od finish might be possible.<br />
:Yeah, you go ahead and pretend, while the rest of us work on what's actually there in front of us so we can accurate do our jobs right [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
Dude, th selector isn't on the right side as when your weilding the gun in your left hand (either akimbo or on the snowmobile) you see there is still no selector. Why dont we just pretend the magic fairies made it a Glock 18. And sign your posts, I wanna know who I'm proving wrong --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:43, 17 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Curse you anonymous users! Anyways, yeah, we're not going to just lie and say it's a Glock 18 for the hell of it. We get our guns corect on this site, and if you wanna be correct, the M39R in MW2 and BC2 is a 92, and the Glock 18 is a Glock 17, end of story. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
Now this is just me but I'd say the first person view of the M93 is a converted Beretta Inox. Maybe this could be mentioned in the article?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
You can get a Glock 18 with a OD grip, check out team glocks website, you can even get a coyote tan frame. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:00, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, but I doubt Brazilian militia and such would have them sold the them by Glock. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== What the heck is the M1 Garand? ==<br />
<br />
It doesn't look like the M1, Is it a error on the designers part or is it another gun that the disigner thought was the M1 Garand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:22, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
~Uh, the Garand in BC2 looks like the M1 Garand to me mate [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:: Yeah, look at both pictures and try to find at least 5 differences. Either that is one of M1 prototypes or modeler got too much freedom and mixed M1903 or this[http://media.photobucket.com/image/m1%20garand%20prototype/Kotsoor/GarandM1921.jpg]with M1.<br />
::Shit, your right, that looks like a cross between a Garand and 1903 with a magazine that goes in the bottom, odd thing isn't it? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
Isn't that supposed to be a Type 5 (Japanese Garand)? It's used by the Japanese in the first single player mission and it has Japanese coat of arms on the receiver.<br />
:I think you just got it mate. When I saw it in the first mission with the lighter wood on the stock, I figured it might be that Japanese Garand copy that they only made like 7 of. Also, can anyone help me with this: When I go to register my BC2 on BF Vets, i click on it and it doesn't let me enter my GT, the little window to put your GT in doesn't come up, what do I do? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::Gimme your GT, i'll try it for you.<br />
No, that's not Type 5. It was exact copy of M1 except calibre, magazine(10 round integral mag vs 8 round en-bloc in Garand's rifle) and shape of sights. Japs assembled ~250. More parts were made though. The most sticking-out difference between in-game weapon and real M1 is gas-block and shorter piston pipe. Also, i just noticed, jap "Garand" in game uses that same en-bloc clips as M1 instead of being loaded by 2 stripper-clips.<br />
<br />
:That's what bothered me during the first mission. All the Japanese had M1 Garands. We can assumed they might have captured US weapons cause they are better than their own rifles, but they all have the Imperial Japanese emblem on the rifle. This was just weird to me until I researched that the Japanese did make a copy of the M1, but in so many numbers like this is somewhat strange. It is the first appearance of the Japanese M1 copy in a game. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::No, Japanese garands were present in other BF games. And weapon in game is indeed an M1 Garand with Imperial Seal on it and swapped rear sight.<br />
<br />
:::so it's a mish mash of a Garand and Type 5? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::::I just realized that the "mag" on the bottom is actually the Trigger housing for the M1 Garand. The only thing is, Dice made it slanted rather than flat...[[Special:Contributions/74.175.101.2|74.175.101.2]]<br />
:How do you screw up making an M1 Garand for a game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:: Well the in game model looks fine, just whoever drew or designed the picture for the weapons screen needs his eyes checked. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:It is kinda unlikely at all for the Japanese conservatives to impliment a semi auto rifle to compete with the US during the war. They were really old school and really believe the guns they had used beating the Russians and Chinese were good enough against the USA. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
:::With their Arisakas they were just gettin' PWNED ANALY too badly by US forces with M1s. That made them shit on their "conservatism" and shamelessly copy Garand's rifle.<br />
:Them shamelessly copying the Garand was a step up for their current weapons. If these M1 copies were in full production, they might have started to have a chance against the US, that and if they had more SMGs [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::wouldn't have helpped much, take their "armor" for example<br />
:The Japanese had Armor? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
Also, they didn't screw up with the M1, they got "lazy" again, and just used the Type 5.<br />
@Excalibur They had "armor" to an extent, and it was trash. Basically tin cans with guns.<br />
:You didn't get my joke. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
== Proper reload animations ==<br />
What keeping game developers from making weapons in game function authentically to their real-life counterparts? Is that lack of info or dontgiveashitaboutitwillsellanyway or something else?<br />
: I would say "dontgiveashitaboutitwillsellanyway"--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.254|184.35.22.254]] 00:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The reload animation or lack of sometimes. A lot of the guns, when you are empty, you reload mag and just continued firing without pressing on any release or racking the charging handle, but the handguns, the slide doesnt lock back when empty and you rack the slide in mid reloads [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
:not to mention when you reload the Thompson mid-mag, you always lock back the bolt, which would eject the round that would be in the chmaber with a mid-mag reload. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::Tommy gun fires from an open bolt, if you forget. Bolt shouldn't be in forward position. What wrong is that when you reload mid-mag bolt locks forward, but no shot follows it(looks like a misfire, but a misfire everytime! C'mon..) , then you reload fresh magazine and rack the charging handle back with spent cartridge casing ejecting in meantime.<br />
:::Oh, well that makes sense, but in BC2 it just looks like he locks it back from the forward position. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::::Yas, they have only one animation, and that is for empty mag reload. Why it looks strange when you reload mid-mag i already noted above.<br />
:::::Yessir, racking the slide or bolt on a gun when reloading even mid-mag is just cheap game design, cool looking yes, practical no. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
<br />
same with the beretta 92. you empty the mag load a new one then pull back the chamber instead of releasing the chamber--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:57, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yeah, also, the servers today were down, and they've been messed up lately, DICE really needs to work on them. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== In game pictures? ==<br />
<br />
Can someone get some high quality In-game pictures of the weapons?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:11, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would, but currently all my capture stuff on in the epic fail section of things I own, so no go from me [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Server Fail? ==<br />
I'm not sure if anyone else has this problem, but when I backed out to the menu to join a squad today, when I checked my weapons and gadgets I had nothing unlocked, the only guns that even showed up were the default ones, and I was rank 1, yet my dogtags and scoreboard placing was still there, I also saw on EAs twitter that this problem has been widely reported, so has this happened to anyone else? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::You just answered your question yourself.<br />
<br />
::::I may have, but I mostly wanna know now if anyone had this problem and if it's been fixed? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::::It's fixed. But you gotta start unlocking everything again.<br />
::::::Your kidding me! Those idiots just lost me 17 hours of gameplay, unlocks and weapon stars, and they can't even restore it? Now I'm pissed, I think DICE and EA owe everyone who lost their unlocks something. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
::::::::They don't own you anything. You already bought their game.<br />
:::::::::Yes, and the proceeded to basically ERASE 17 HOURS of gameplay and unlocks, that's complete and utter bullshit (pardon my french). [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::::::::::Some times i'll join a game and it'll show me not having anything, but after sitting there yelling angerly it eventualy shows my stuff.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.254|184.35.22.254]] 03:49, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::The same thing happened to be, I went on earlier, and all my shit was back again, so I guess EA must have fixed it, but to anyone who loses their stuff for good, that sucks amigos. Meanwhile, time to continue my "Quest for the VSS" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:::::It's pretty fun to use. even when you don't feel like sniping you can just stap the red dot on it and use it like a VAL.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.254|184.35.22.254]] 06:11, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::9A-91 ~ AS. VSS is weak for CQC. Even SVU with RDS would be better. Heavy bullet of 9x39 cartridge flies by very curved trajectory - about 1m drop on 200m. Did devs got it correct?<br />
::::::::They got the drop about right.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.254|184.35.22.254]] 16:30, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I plan to use it as a Val stand it, as it seems pretty weak for sniping. When I wanna properly snipe, I go for the GOL or the M95. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== M1911 ==<br />
<br />
From in game pics isn't it the WWI model and not the A1?<br />
It has the shortened ejection port...<br />
::Yeah, and Beretta 93R is 92, and M1 Garand is miscarriage of m1903 and so on... Blame it on dontgiveashit "creative" modelers.<br />
:::Thing is, the game doesn't list the M1911 as the A1 variant, and it properly portrays the M1911. The M1 is quite accurate with the exception of the bottom mag. The M93R is a M93R, just silvered and the grip is folded up.<br />
<br />
::::Wrong completely on the M93R. The in game model has NO foregrip, not to mention a slide mounted safety and 92 grips. The designers literally took the M9 from the game, stuck a burst mode, silver finish and 20 round mag on it, and called it an 93R. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
== Differences? ==<br />
<br />
So I keep hearing that this game is amazing, but I've never played it, or any of the other games in the series. The only multiplayer FPSs I have on my console are Halo 3, and Modern Warfare 2. I'm thinking about getting this game, but can someone explain to me how the gameplay is different from MW2? Like, how experience, attachments, various equipment, and such is different? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:58, 13 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:-It's ALL about teamplay. Wanna win -- gotta help the common good. Although,you can play lonewofl if you watch so much.<br />
:-There are less weapon customisation. Only scopes and GLs. Weapon arsenal is more "realistic"(imao)<br />
:-Much bigger maps than MW2. <br />
:-Vehicles.<br />
:-MW2 vs. BFBC2? Both good.<br />
:-If you enjoy military FPS games, you definitely need to check it out.<br />
:-Watch some reviews.<br />
<br />
Okay, I'll probably get it. Still, less weapon customization makes me sad, and vehicles I'm kinda iffy about, but I'm glad that it's more team based. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 17:13, 13 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Not a whole lot of options for perks like MW2. People are harder to kill. You can blow up buildings completely to get rid of campers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
For the singleplayer aspect, I do highly recommending playing the first Bad Company to get to know the characters in the story. BC2's story isn't as funny as the first one. They left out a lot of humor for this whole seriousness mood. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
Eh, seriousness has it's upsides. And is every building in the map completely destructible? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 19:46, 13 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Just about, and it helps in MP, because M-COM stations can be collapsed instead of blown up, so that can be a good alternative. Also, I agree that story was less humorous, not to mention no "Rainbow Sprinkles" ad this time! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
::Another great tactic a friend and I have employed is to collapse buildings where snipers often hide, and to basically use mortart strikes to open the walls of building containing M-COM stations and other objectives. A friend and I, working as a two sniper team, managed about 50 kills last night without moving, simply because, with the SPOT perk, we were illuminating targets for people closer to them (and getting that sweet 20 points for basically looking in the right direction). --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:27, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I love those trailers of the first one. Rainbow Sprinkles, Bad World, and the Metal Gear Solid one. I also remember one where the camera guy talks and pisses them off. It was an early trailer [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
== The singleplayer story (Spoiler) ==<br />
<br />
Anyone who has played the singleplayer of the first Bad Company and then played this one scratching their heads? I assume this is a sequel, story wise. At the end of the first story the team rides off with a truck full of gold. And at the start of BC2, they are back in the fight and never mentioned their score of gold at all...Is there supposed to be an explanation for that? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::Probably spent it all on whores and booze.<br />
:::That's what I would do if I somehow procured lots of gold. Oh, and new guns, too. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 19:45, 13 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I think it acts like teh first game didn't happen, much.<br />
<br />
well they dissapeared in themiddle of a war-zone after going AWOL dont you think they would be either kicked out or in jail?, also i havent played it but is ti still funny like the first with the cool music in carsand stuff like that? [[user:smish34|smish34]]<br />
<br />
== rex and m14 ==<br />
<br />
In game the Rex's barrel looks lengthed.<br />
The M14 has 1/2 a magpul<br />
<br />
ALSO<br />
The M1 for the picture in the armory looks like the type 5.<br />
<br />
:Let's not forget despite claims of a 20 round magazine, the EBR in game only has a 10 round magazine. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
I find that the lack of a 20 round magazine and being unable to put a sight on it has ruined the gun for me. I was looking forward to using a ACOG with it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:31, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
and can someone get some ingame pictures of these guns?<br />
<br />
:Indeed, 10 round mags and not even Red Dot capable did it in for me. It's alright, but I prefer a proper AR. I heard the G3 was better, considering it has the epic HK sights, a 20 round magazine, and full auto fire. Though I noticed what I think is a glitch. Despite the weapon page in game saying it's unlocked at Rank 26, I've seen guys Rank 23 and 24 with them, and not as a stolen kit. What I believe now is you actually get it at Rank 22, which is Warrant Officer, why it's messed i the weapon screen is beyond me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
The M24 apparently was originally chambered for 30-06 MAGNUM, I got to get me one of those. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metro_2033&diff=247114Talk:Metro 20332010-03-19T11:22:43Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Spoiler */</p>
<hr />
<div>The "P90" is actually no P90. It sure looks like one but is slightly modified (i. e. regarding the front grip); the game manual calls it the "AK2012" and describes it as the Russian army's latest service rifle. Despite the name, it has nothing in common with any existing AK model (except the chambering). --[[Special:Contributions/83.79.126.247|83.79.126.247]] 23:14, 17 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Spoiler == <br />
Well, in the end of the game you blow up main "others'" nest and flood the entire Metro.<br />
<br />
First: What does the ending of the game have to do here? It's a site about firearms, not about movie/game plots.<br />
Second: Seriously? That means they just... threw away the ending of the book so that there could be no Metro 2034 (the book sequel)? --[[Special:Contributions/81.62.92.179|81.62.92.179]] 17:25, 18 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Personally, I think that the jackass who posted the spoiler was just trying to be an asshole. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:22, 19 March 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Deadliest_Warrior_-_Season_2&diff=240026Talk:Deadliest Warrior - Season 22010-03-01T03:22:28Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* "Experts??" */</p>
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<div>This show is awesome, heh I hear they are going to have Green Berets vs. Spetsnaz and IRA vs. Taliban<br />
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Yeah it is awesome. I think the Spetsnaz are going to win over the Green Berets next week. I haven't heard anything about the IRA vs. Taliban fight though.<br />
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:I agree totally. Spetsnaz could kick Special Forces' ass. but dont tell any i said that! -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
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Whoever edited the page last is totally wrong. It should have the M4A1, AKM assault rifle, Mossberg 590, Saiga shotgun, RGD-5 grenade, M67 grenade, Beretta M9, Makarov pistol, SVD Dragunov, and M24 sniper rifle.<br />
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==Ridiculous show==<br />
This show is ridiculous. Many of the match ups aren't fair to either or both sides, since they are just 'assuming' many things. Also many of the comparisons are purely '''apples vs oranges'''. In the Mafia versus Yakuza, comparing a Thompson to a Sten????? WTF? Two different types of guns for different purposes. the M1928 with a 100 round drum is ridiculously HEAVY and no soldier would want to be running around a lying prone with it (which is why the M1 &M1A1 with their stick mags were developed in WW2). The Sten is lighter and holds a 32 round stick mag. It was a very simplified design done for the sake of mass production during time of war, and it was much more suited to commando raids and airborne ops than the Thompson with a 100 rd drum, just because of weight and types of magazines. <br />
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Sure the historical tests of the weapons are fun and all, but all serious military historians think that the "matchups" are just stupid. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:12, 13 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:''I've seen the first episode, the Yakuza vs. Mafia matchup, and this week's Spetsnaz vs. Green Beret episode. I can't say I have a problem with the Spetsnaz "winning", but I have serious problems with the testing they did. The ballistic knife over the E-Tool was the most ridiculous thing I've seen, by far, and while I can't say I've studied Spetsnaz tactics to any real extent, I refuse to believe that they really move around like they're shooting Hard Boiled 2.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 03:24, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
[[Image:SpetnazPoster.jpg|center|600px]]<br />
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::I agree, their shooting style was just...overblown. The fast crouching and ducking and shooting was just...stupid. They shoot their sidearms with one hand apparently, and got a better hit ratio over the Green Beret who shot faster and holding his M9 with both hands. The comparison wasn't as bad as the Mafia and Yakuza where they compared a P38 to a double barrel shotgun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::''I have read several articles written by former police and military combat instructors which discuss how the singlehanded grip, while less effective for long range target shooting, can be much more flexible and effective than the double handed grip. Practice is far more important than which grip is used, if the Spetsnaz soldier had trained more with a one hand grip than the Green Beret did with both than he would obviously perform better. Keep in mind, handguns have been around since the 1500's and the two-handed grip did not come into widespread usage until the 1950's.''<br />
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:::''The "final fight" was even worse. I'm fairly certain that any self-respecting soldier is going to carry multiple mags for any weapon they carry into battle. Here, the Green Beret empties his M9...and drops the gun. I almost screamed at the TV, "RELOAD! RELOAD, YOU FOOL!" At least the one on one between the Yakuza and Mafia soldier seemed somewhat realistic.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 19:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I know, it's like the Green Beret was thinking "Hey, I still have extra mags for my M4, but I rather use my M9. Hey, my M9 is empty, but instead of reloading, I'm going to use...my SHOVEL!" It's ridiculous. In one of the other forums, someone suggested that the show shoulda gotten the Russian and Green Beret guys in a paintball field, gave them guns that shoot sim ammo and rubber knives and have them go at it. At least that would have been more accurate results than some computer tests! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree that a paintball match at a combat town would show off more of their small unit tactical training, than the bullshit 'test' they do on the show. That would be interesting to see! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:06, 17 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I'm sure you guys caught the mention of the M4A1's four-position selector *rolls eyes*... Obviously the guys they hired to portray these ex-SOF soldiers didn't do their homework. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198<br />
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:It would make sense to compare ANCIENT weapons. I think there are interesting comparisons between short swords, pikes, spears and other edged weapons FROM THE ANCIENT WORLD. But when it comes to firearms, COME ON! Like someone said, they 'tested' the Yakuza versus the Mafia by testing the Walther P38(!!) to a double barrel shotgun(!!!??) WTF? How about comparing the P38 to the Model 10? or the 1911? But then the Model 10 and 1911 were also used by the Yakuza. All of the Firearms testing on this show is ridiculous and stupid. The only valid 'comparisons' are between the ancient weapons, like the Zulu short spear or the Roman sword or the Scimitar, etc. etc. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:04, 17 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::There were problems in comparing "ancient" weapons. I mean the Viking vs Samurai, they didn't mention that Vikings had bows and arrows too and they "tested" a viking axe to a Samurai sword! They didn't want to do the long sword vs the Katana why? I mean the samurai also used spears, but they didn't show that in the episode, just a bow vs a viking spear. Come on! The ninja vs spartan was also weak since all the weapons weren't matched up except sword against sword. Well at least for the next 2 weeks they're going back to actual warriors of old like Shaolin vs Mauoi, and 2 actual people of history Shaka Zulu vs William Wallace. But their last episode is going to be the worse, the IRA vs the Taliban! That is just..stupid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:59, 17 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Yeah and in Vikings .V. Samurai, the Viking snapped the Samurai's spine w/ a battle axe, but lost anyway. WTF?-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::''IRA versus Taliban? Despite each group being completely different philosophy/theology/motivations/goals/limitations etc, the show could just show a Bomb going off in a pub (IRA) or a truck driving UP to a marketplace and then blowing up (Taliban)....Yeeesshhhhh! MPM2008''<br />
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The only thing I've liked about this show so far was the actual ninja vs Spartan battle. It was fairly entertaining, if nothing else (even though it was a serious mismatch). Like comparing an AK to an AR hasn't been done 674356789765545675 times before...? They should stick to matching up pre-gunpowder warriors, IMO. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198<br />
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:If it was Ninja vs Pirates, then that would be awesome [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Fuck that, i want zombies versus gladiators[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:55, 18 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I just saw the Yakuza vs. Mafia & Spetznaz vs. Green Berets episodes, and I think I have a migrane now. They used a Luger P08 as a "Walther P38" and had a so-called "expert" saying the M4A1 has a "4-position selector switch" and is capable of both burst AND automatic fire. What the hell? They also had a Saiga-12 with a hunting-style stock rather than the mil-spec pistol grip. They also used a 7.62x39mm folding-stock AK to represent the 5.45x39mm "AK-74 carbine" I guess this should be expected from a channel with shows as ''Manswers''... [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 01:13, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Another glaring error; in the Green Berets/Spetznaz episode, U.S. military personnel NEVER wear berets in combat! That is PURE hollywood! Those soldiers would have been wearing kevlar helmets, patrol caps, boonie hats, or -maybe- a baseball cap, but NOT their freakin' berets which are only worn in non-combat situations such as when on base stateside. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 18:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The Green Berets and Navy Seals during the Vietnam War did use Berets, Bonnie hats, Bush Hats and those baseball-cap style green caps they used when they weren't in combat. Alongside all kinds of bandanas but, they depicted the green berets and the russians in modern day and even that Spike TV managed to fuck up. The Spetznaz doesn't use AKMs. They use AK-74Ms.<br />
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::Well, the were accurate enough by at least saying the Spetznaz use AK-74s, but in the show we don't see a single AK-74 like gun at all. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::They said AK-74 not AK-74M but that is just nitpicking. They also called the AK-74 a carbine not a assault rifle. This show is dumb.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Four position Safety==<br />
I hate to break it to some of you but they do in fact make a four position safety for the M-16 series rifle. You used to be able to buy them a few years back in the Shotgun news.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Really? That a fact? But we're talking about the Green Berets here. Do you really think they use M4s with 4 selections? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
I wouldn't know the only time I have handled an official US issue M-4A1 was about ten years ago and it was safe-Semi-Full. from what I understand the four position safety was designed as an experiment and latter sold comercially. Given that the weapons are shown comertially then it is possible that such a selector on that rifle. As far as the "Green Beret"'s go I'm sure they have an example or two stored in the back of a bunker or two. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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There was NOT any four-selector AR-15 based rifle EVER created. If you ever had any AR-15 rifle dissasembled, or even if you ever handled any, you would have know, that a four-selector switch is purely impossible. ALL issued variants have/had only a three-position selector switch - either for save/semi/auto (early models Colt 601,602, various carbine versions, the M16A3 and others) or save/semi/burst (M16A2, M16A2 etc). Concerning the M4 Carbine, the original version, Colt Model 720, adopted in 1994, was capable of firing three round burst and had M16A2 style non-remouvable carrying handle. M4A1 variant (Colt Model 925) and the SOPMOD version are capable of fully automatic fire, have remouvable carring handle, and in case of SOPMOD and M4 MWS (Modular Weapon System) are fitted with M5 Knight's Armament Corporation RIS/RAS. [[Ragnar -unregistered user]]<br />
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==IRA Vs. Taliban==<br />
I was kind of annoyed by the errors this show typically displays as always, but some notable ones were on Sunday with the IRA vs. Taliban episode. They claimed the Irish Republican Army used the "Armalite AR-15" as their main weapon, yet I was always under the impression they used the Armalite AR-18. And aside from that, hasn't Colt been the producer of the "AR-15" since the 70s? The guns they used on the show were M16A2/Colt AR-15 A2 HBAR rifles anyway, not Armalite guns. And they somehow tried to show the AK-47 was superior to an AR-15 by slapping a huge amount of mud on the action and pouring water down the barrel. The AK of course didn't jam and the AR did, but that's a dumb test. A gun can get dirty and jam up but if it gets THAT dirty, it isn't even a fair trial. Also, they compared an LPO-50 flamethrower to an RPG-7 (Norinco Type 69)? One is good for 20ft another can hit out at 300m. That's fair. And they claim both are MID-RANGE weapons. Also, they couldn't get the actual flamethrower used in the one incident, so they used this propane tank flamethrower that barely worked. And then they compare the slingshot to the bayonet. WTF??!! One is a hand-to-hand blade fixed to the muzzle of a gun, the slingshot is a mid-range projectile launcher. And if the IRA used it, it was more effetive than what they showed on the show. This show is dumb, I only watch it now because my friends told me it is awesome and I watch just to tear it down. Plus in the Gangsters episode, they kept saying "clip" instead of magazine, which was seriously pissing me off. And listening to David Wenham say the "British Sten uses a 30-round clip" made me want to kill everyone who makes this show. And the use of the term "drum-clip" is just insipid. There are better shows on sunday. Like Family Guy. I was mad I had to miss that just to watch this crap. Well, there's my review :) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
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:You are right. The IRA did use AR-18s instead of AR-15s and i don't think that the IRA has a main weapon. Hell, i don't think that any guerrilla groups have main weapons. They just take what they can get, the only reason AKs are so common with guerrillas are because the Soviet Union and China gave those away like candy to enemies of the united States and because they are extremely easy to manufacture, and the use of the word clip in the show pisses me the fuck off. The computer guy also is extremely annoying. I want to shove a M67 up his ass.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I agree, I mean, they even said in the show the IRA also uses AKs. The "British" troops with M16s is very inaccurate, since no one in the British military outside the SAS, SBS or other Special Forces uses M16 weapons. This is an even more insulting episode than the Green Berets vs the Spetsnaz! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:57, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::During the height of the IRA bombings, the British army still had the [FN FAL#L1A1|L1A1 SLR]] and Sterling SMGs. The Brits never used the M16 out side elite or non-conventional units. MPM2008<br />
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:The slingshot vs bayonet comparison definitely ties with ballistic knife vs E-tool as the absolute worst mismatches I've ever seen. And after the Luger/P-38 fiasco and those so-called "Green Berets" and "Spetznaz" making complete fools out of themselves by knowing pretty much squat about their weapons, I didn't think it could get any worse.I wonder what's next on this show. Bloods vs Crips? Rainbow Six vs Ghost Recon? Sam Fisher vs Solid Snake? Old Lady vs Pickpocket? Sheesh... When it first premiered, I really enjoyed the show, but now... [[Special:Contributions/24.7.190.251|24.7.190.251]] 03:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC) Spartan198<br />
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:This is the LAST episode. I really HOPE there is no season 2, but if there is, I'll be there to screen cap it. And I wouldn't be surprise if it's gang bangers vs other gangs. And I'd bet on Solid Snake more than Sam Fisher and Rainbow Six over Ghost Recon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:No, I've got better ones: LAPD vs Blackwater and George Bush vs Barack Obama. XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:30, 3 June 2009 (UTC) Spartan198<br />
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::Blackwater win over LAPD since the latter is a band of ex-military SF mercs, so no competition there. And if you want Bush vs Obama, just look at their presidencies and decided who wins or hope Celebrity Death match makes one. I'd say the LAPD SWAT vs the Columbian FARC. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree that Blackwater has TONS of combat vets in their ranks. Bush versus Obama, we're not talking politics here, then '''only ONE of them had any military training, and he flew F-104 Starfighters''', so there's no comparison. So you have a 'community organizer' vs 'fighter pilot' neither one has useful small arms or hand to hand training so it's kind of a moot point. Overall the show is supremely retarded. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:24, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:The most understated thing said so far. The show is supremely retard! Thank you [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:45, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The Green Berets and Spetznaz guys know absolutely jack shit about guns. and i agree with you MPM, this show is supremely retarded but it's Spike TV so what do you expect?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:05, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::The Provisional IRA had both AR-15s and AR-18s, and some M16s as well. These were all weapons purchased by their Irish-American sympathizers in the U.S.; the M16s were stolen from Camp LeJune, while the AR-15s and AR-18s were purchased at gun stores. Qaddafi sent them large amounts of Communist bloc weaponry, including AKs (mostly Romanian AIMs), RPG-7s, DShKs, RGD-5 grenades, and CZ-75s. Qaddafi sent them some Western-made guns, too, including "Wonder Nines", FN MAGs, and the LPO-50s. But the IRA almost never used the LPO-50s, except in a single recorded incident at an Army checkpoint.<br />
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::::I also found it interesting that they glossed over the fact that the IRA was actually one of the very first terrorist groups in the world to use the RPG-7 (they first used RPGs as early as 1972). But anyway, I think it's a really ridiculous comparison because the IRA and the Taliban are completely different types of groups. The IRA is more of a gang than a guerrilla army, and would be squeamish if they had to engage in the sort of activities that the Taliban do regularly. Euro-commie radical wanna-bes vs. Islamist tribal mountain savages = the savages win. Not to mention that the Taliban's fund-raising practices are WAY above the IRA's. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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It funny how these people are like rrr "I am super awesome mega warrior" It is just funny how they call themselves experts. wouldn't they actually shoot each other or be arrested for terrorist activities? Beeteles<br />
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== This Page ==<br />
This Page needs alot of work. I will try to fix it later.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:40, 9 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:What do you mean "Alot of work"? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::What i mean is that the screencaps need captions and some of the sections have no gun-pictures. It's more of "alot of work" as in quantity not difficulty.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Well some of the sections without gun pictures is because I didn't know which guns they were. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== "Experts??" ==<br />
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I don't think that anyone on either side of the "Green Beret vs Spetnatz had been an "expert" for ten years or more. I meen the Green Beret was pathetic with the beretta and he had a beer belly that sticks out 20".-beeteles<br />
:''Far be it for me to deem anyone's status at anything...I really think that the experts they get are actors who were just slightly better than the Z-list "talent" they got to do the re-enactments.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 02:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I'm sure the "experts" are retarded actors that don't know a goddamm thing about guns or anything military in general.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Case in point, Matt the Green Beret thinking his M4 was capable of both full auto and mechanical burst. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
::::And I've never met a Green Beret who actually wore his green beret into the field. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::::I have, but they were Nam era Green Berets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 03:22, 1 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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It also comes to mind that SF wouldn't typically be chosen for the type of "mission" that was portrayed in the closing battle. An op like that would normally be assigned to Rangers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:55, 27 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Really? Being not that informed or smart in shit like that,I always thought it was the enemy or situation that matterednot the operation. But again,I suck at shit like that. [[User:Pump_Shotty_Justice|Pump_Shotty_Justice]]<br />
::Different units have different applications. SF would typically be dropped behind enemy lines to train indigenous forces and build alliances with them, while Rangers would carry out direct action missions. SF ''can'' do the latter, but they don't specialize in it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:47, 28 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== green beret vs spetznaz ==<br />
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well i watched the show mainly becauseit was a modern re-anacment and well...i fuckin hate this show. the so called experts were shitty shots with the beretta. the test were really un-fair. come on. mossy 590 shooting a pig from a few yards out is supposed to be a fair test to the seiga shooting about 4 different 'jelly' targets while moving and some were behind cover. a frag grenade in side a washing machine is fair compared to throwing a grenade in a plast-glass corridor. bullshit. they wouldnt really use an E-TOOL for a melee weapon the would use a K-BAR knife. they would use kinmber 1911 variants or maybe a MK23 (or is that black-ops forces). and wasnt the makarov replaced by some other gun recently (last 5-10 years or so)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 15:26, 28 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, Marines use KA-Bars, but many servemen use them because they are very reliable. Special Forces do use glocks and the occasional Colt, but the MK23 was phased out due to it being just overall too big of a weapon. And E-tools are extremely dangerous and quite effective when you slice something with it. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]<br />
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:Couple of things I would like to point out. Yes, the Makarov is slowly being replaced by the GSh-18 pistol, which came out in 2000. I agree that the tests were incredibly unfair, though even in the shotgun test, the saiga won, even though it's test was unfair. I believe they used the E-tool as the Green Beret melee weapon because if it was just a knife against a ballistics knife, the ballistics knife would have too much of an advantage. With the E-Tool, which is still a very capable weapon, they at least have a longer reach in straight up melee combat. And no, as far as I'm aware, and this is supported by my limited research on the subject, the Green Berets would use the Beretta. The only branch that ever used/still uses a Kimber model was the MEU. [[Special:Contributions/71.199.132.177|71.199.132.177]] 19:27, 28 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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should have been Delta vs Spetnaz...ahhaha just kidding, but seriously that episode pissed off a ton of people, you'd think that the Green Berets would be equiped with more customized M4s and such, and each fire team would be different. wheres the team's DMR? wheres the team's machine gunner? etc etc and i mean for both sides...and a shotgun is a secondary weapon, never a primary when it comes to a fireteam, unless you're in SWAT or something. M9s, M11s, MEUs, etc etc, each Green Beret or Special Forces soldier has his choice of what kind of firearms he wants to carry. <br />
overall...bullshit<br />
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do ya know what really pissedmeoff. when the spetznaz soldier threw the grenade in the washing machine he walked off and lit up a smoke like he was some badass cool soldier. very unproffesional. and made him look like a jackass. if i was on COD...hahahah just messing around im not an 8 year old--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:24, 28 February 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Deadliest_Warrior_-_Season_2&diff=240025Talk:Deadliest Warrior - Season 22010-03-01T03:22:02Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* "Experts??" */</p>
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<div>This show is awesome, heh I hear they are going to have Green Berets vs. Spetsnaz and IRA vs. Taliban<br />
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Yeah it is awesome. I think the Spetsnaz are going to win over the Green Berets next week. I haven't heard anything about the IRA vs. Taliban fight though.<br />
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:I agree totally. Spetsnaz could kick Special Forces' ass. but dont tell any i said that! -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
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Whoever edited the page last is totally wrong. It should have the M4A1, AKM assault rifle, Mossberg 590, Saiga shotgun, RGD-5 grenade, M67 grenade, Beretta M9, Makarov pistol, SVD Dragunov, and M24 sniper rifle.<br />
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==Ridiculous show==<br />
This show is ridiculous. Many of the match ups aren't fair to either or both sides, since they are just 'assuming' many things. Also many of the comparisons are purely '''apples vs oranges'''. In the Mafia versus Yakuza, comparing a Thompson to a Sten????? WTF? Two different types of guns for different purposes. the M1928 with a 100 round drum is ridiculously HEAVY and no soldier would want to be running around a lying prone with it (which is why the M1 &M1A1 with their stick mags were developed in WW2). The Sten is lighter and holds a 32 round stick mag. It was a very simplified design done for the sake of mass production during time of war, and it was much more suited to commando raids and airborne ops than the Thompson with a 100 rd drum, just because of weight and types of magazines. <br />
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Sure the historical tests of the weapons are fun and all, but all serious military historians think that the "matchups" are just stupid. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:12, 13 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:''I've seen the first episode, the Yakuza vs. Mafia matchup, and this week's Spetsnaz vs. Green Beret episode. I can't say I have a problem with the Spetsnaz "winning", but I have serious problems with the testing they did. The ballistic knife over the E-Tool was the most ridiculous thing I've seen, by far, and while I can't say I've studied Spetsnaz tactics to any real extent, I refuse to believe that they really move around like they're shooting Hard Boiled 2.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 03:24, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
[[Image:SpetnazPoster.jpg|center|600px]]<br />
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::I agree, their shooting style was just...overblown. The fast crouching and ducking and shooting was just...stupid. They shoot their sidearms with one hand apparently, and got a better hit ratio over the Green Beret who shot faster and holding his M9 with both hands. The comparison wasn't as bad as the Mafia and Yakuza where they compared a P38 to a double barrel shotgun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::''I have read several articles written by former police and military combat instructors which discuss how the singlehanded grip, while less effective for long range target shooting, can be much more flexible and effective than the double handed grip. Practice is far more important than which grip is used, if the Spetsnaz soldier had trained more with a one hand grip than the Green Beret did with both than he would obviously perform better. Keep in mind, handguns have been around since the 1500's and the two-handed grip did not come into widespread usage until the 1950's.''<br />
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:::''The "final fight" was even worse. I'm fairly certain that any self-respecting soldier is going to carry multiple mags for any weapon they carry into battle. Here, the Green Beret empties his M9...and drops the gun. I almost screamed at the TV, "RELOAD! RELOAD, YOU FOOL!" At least the one on one between the Yakuza and Mafia soldier seemed somewhat realistic.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 19:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I know, it's like the Green Beret was thinking "Hey, I still have extra mags for my M4, but I rather use my M9. Hey, my M9 is empty, but instead of reloading, I'm going to use...my SHOVEL!" It's ridiculous. In one of the other forums, someone suggested that the show shoulda gotten the Russian and Green Beret guys in a paintball field, gave them guns that shoot sim ammo and rubber knives and have them go at it. At least that would have been more accurate results than some computer tests! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree that a paintball match at a combat town would show off more of their small unit tactical training, than the bullshit 'test' they do on the show. That would be interesting to see! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:06, 17 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I'm sure you guys caught the mention of the M4A1's four-position selector *rolls eyes*... Obviously the guys they hired to portray these ex-SOF soldiers didn't do their homework. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198<br />
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:It would make sense to compare ANCIENT weapons. I think there are interesting comparisons between short swords, pikes, spears and other edged weapons FROM THE ANCIENT WORLD. But when it comes to firearms, COME ON! Like someone said, they 'tested' the Yakuza versus the Mafia by testing the Walther P38(!!) to a double barrel shotgun(!!!??) WTF? How about comparing the P38 to the Model 10? or the 1911? But then the Model 10 and 1911 were also used by the Yakuza. All of the Firearms testing on this show is ridiculous and stupid. The only valid 'comparisons' are between the ancient weapons, like the Zulu short spear or the Roman sword or the Scimitar, etc. etc. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:04, 17 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::There were problems in comparing "ancient" weapons. I mean the Viking vs Samurai, they didn't mention that Vikings had bows and arrows too and they "tested" a viking axe to a Samurai sword! They didn't want to do the long sword vs the Katana why? I mean the samurai also used spears, but they didn't show that in the episode, just a bow vs a viking spear. Come on! The ninja vs spartan was also weak since all the weapons weren't matched up except sword against sword. Well at least for the next 2 weeks they're going back to actual warriors of old like Shaolin vs Mauoi, and 2 actual people of history Shaka Zulu vs William Wallace. But their last episode is going to be the worse, the IRA vs the Taliban! That is just..stupid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:59, 17 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Yeah and in Vikings .V. Samurai, the Viking snapped the Samurai's spine w/ a battle axe, but lost anyway. WTF?-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::''IRA versus Taliban? Despite each group being completely different philosophy/theology/motivations/goals/limitations etc, the show could just show a Bomb going off in a pub (IRA) or a truck driving UP to a marketplace and then blowing up (Taliban)....Yeeesshhhhh! MPM2008''<br />
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The only thing I've liked about this show so far was the actual ninja vs Spartan battle. It was fairly entertaining, if nothing else (even though it was a serious mismatch). Like comparing an AK to an AR hasn't been done 674356789765545675 times before...? They should stick to matching up pre-gunpowder warriors, IMO. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198<br />
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:If it was Ninja vs Pirates, then that would be awesome [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Fuck that, i want zombies versus gladiators[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:55, 18 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I just saw the Yakuza vs. Mafia & Spetznaz vs. Green Berets episodes, and I think I have a migrane now. They used a Luger P08 as a "Walther P38" and had a so-called "expert" saying the M4A1 has a "4-position selector switch" and is capable of both burst AND automatic fire. What the hell? They also had a Saiga-12 with a hunting-style stock rather than the mil-spec pistol grip. They also used a 7.62x39mm folding-stock AK to represent the 5.45x39mm "AK-74 carbine" I guess this should be expected from a channel with shows as ''Manswers''... [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 01:13, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Another glaring error; in the Green Berets/Spetznaz episode, U.S. military personnel NEVER wear berets in combat! That is PURE hollywood! Those soldiers would have been wearing kevlar helmets, patrol caps, boonie hats, or -maybe- a baseball cap, but NOT their freakin' berets which are only worn in non-combat situations such as when on base stateside. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 18:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The Green Berets and Navy Seals during the Vietnam War did use Berets, Bonnie hats, Bush Hats and those baseball-cap style green caps they used when they weren't in combat. Alongside all kinds of bandanas but, they depicted the green berets and the russians in modern day and even that Spike TV managed to fuck up. The Spetznaz doesn't use AKMs. They use AK-74Ms.<br />
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::Well, the were accurate enough by at least saying the Spetznaz use AK-74s, but in the show we don't see a single AK-74 like gun at all. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::They said AK-74 not AK-74M but that is just nitpicking. They also called the AK-74 a carbine not a assault rifle. This show is dumb.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Four position Safety==<br />
I hate to break it to some of you but they do in fact make a four position safety for the M-16 series rifle. You used to be able to buy them a few years back in the Shotgun news.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Really? That a fact? But we're talking about the Green Berets here. Do you really think they use M4s with 4 selections? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
I wouldn't know the only time I have handled an official US issue M-4A1 was about ten years ago and it was safe-Semi-Full. from what I understand the four position safety was designed as an experiment and latter sold comercially. Given that the weapons are shown comertially then it is possible that such a selector on that rifle. As far as the "Green Beret"'s go I'm sure they have an example or two stored in the back of a bunker or two. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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There was NOT any four-selector AR-15 based rifle EVER created. If you ever had any AR-15 rifle dissasembled, or even if you ever handled any, you would have know, that a four-selector switch is purely impossible. ALL issued variants have/had only a three-position selector switch - either for save/semi/auto (early models Colt 601,602, various carbine versions, the M16A3 and others) or save/semi/burst (M16A2, M16A2 etc). Concerning the M4 Carbine, the original version, Colt Model 720, adopted in 1994, was capable of firing three round burst and had M16A2 style non-remouvable carrying handle. M4A1 variant (Colt Model 925) and the SOPMOD version are capable of fully automatic fire, have remouvable carring handle, and in case of SOPMOD and M4 MWS (Modular Weapon System) are fitted with M5 Knight's Armament Corporation RIS/RAS. [[Ragnar -unregistered user]]<br />
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==IRA Vs. Taliban==<br />
I was kind of annoyed by the errors this show typically displays as always, but some notable ones were on Sunday with the IRA vs. Taliban episode. They claimed the Irish Republican Army used the "Armalite AR-15" as their main weapon, yet I was always under the impression they used the Armalite AR-18. And aside from that, hasn't Colt been the producer of the "AR-15" since the 70s? The guns they used on the show were M16A2/Colt AR-15 A2 HBAR rifles anyway, not Armalite guns. And they somehow tried to show the AK-47 was superior to an AR-15 by slapping a huge amount of mud on the action and pouring water down the barrel. The AK of course didn't jam and the AR did, but that's a dumb test. A gun can get dirty and jam up but if it gets THAT dirty, it isn't even a fair trial. Also, they compared an LPO-50 flamethrower to an RPG-7 (Norinco Type 69)? One is good for 20ft another can hit out at 300m. That's fair. And they claim both are MID-RANGE weapons. Also, they couldn't get the actual flamethrower used in the one incident, so they used this propane tank flamethrower that barely worked. And then they compare the slingshot to the bayonet. WTF??!! One is a hand-to-hand blade fixed to the muzzle of a gun, the slingshot is a mid-range projectile launcher. And if the IRA used it, it was more effetive than what they showed on the show. This show is dumb, I only watch it now because my friends told me it is awesome and I watch just to tear it down. Plus in the Gangsters episode, they kept saying "clip" instead of magazine, which was seriously pissing me off. And listening to David Wenham say the "British Sten uses a 30-round clip" made me want to kill everyone who makes this show. And the use of the term "drum-clip" is just insipid. There are better shows on sunday. Like Family Guy. I was mad I had to miss that just to watch this crap. Well, there's my review :) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
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:You are right. The IRA did use AR-18s instead of AR-15s and i don't think that the IRA has a main weapon. Hell, i don't think that any guerrilla groups have main weapons. They just take what they can get, the only reason AKs are so common with guerrillas are because the Soviet Union and China gave those away like candy to enemies of the united States and because they are extremely easy to manufacture, and the use of the word clip in the show pisses me the fuck off. The computer guy also is extremely annoying. I want to shove a M67 up his ass.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I agree, I mean, they even said in the show the IRA also uses AKs. The "British" troops with M16s is very inaccurate, since no one in the British military outside the SAS, SBS or other Special Forces uses M16 weapons. This is an even more insulting episode than the Green Berets vs the Spetsnaz! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:57, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::During the height of the IRA bombings, the British army still had the [FN FAL#L1A1|L1A1 SLR]] and Sterling SMGs. The Brits never used the M16 out side elite or non-conventional units. MPM2008<br />
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:The slingshot vs bayonet comparison definitely ties with ballistic knife vs E-tool as the absolute worst mismatches I've ever seen. And after the Luger/P-38 fiasco and those so-called "Green Berets" and "Spetznaz" making complete fools out of themselves by knowing pretty much squat about their weapons, I didn't think it could get any worse.I wonder what's next on this show. Bloods vs Crips? Rainbow Six vs Ghost Recon? Sam Fisher vs Solid Snake? Old Lady vs Pickpocket? Sheesh... When it first premiered, I really enjoyed the show, but now... [[Special:Contributions/24.7.190.251|24.7.190.251]] 03:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC) Spartan198<br />
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:This is the LAST episode. I really HOPE there is no season 2, but if there is, I'll be there to screen cap it. And I wouldn't be surprise if it's gang bangers vs other gangs. And I'd bet on Solid Snake more than Sam Fisher and Rainbow Six over Ghost Recon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:No, I've got better ones: LAPD vs Blackwater and George Bush vs Barack Obama. XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:30, 3 June 2009 (UTC) Spartan198<br />
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::Blackwater win over LAPD since the latter is a band of ex-military SF mercs, so no competition there. And if you want Bush vs Obama, just look at their presidencies and decided who wins or hope Celebrity Death match makes one. I'd say the LAPD SWAT vs the Columbian FARC. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree that Blackwater has TONS of combat vets in their ranks. Bush versus Obama, we're not talking politics here, then '''only ONE of them had any military training, and he flew F-104 Starfighters''', so there's no comparison. So you have a 'community organizer' vs 'fighter pilot' neither one has useful small arms or hand to hand training so it's kind of a moot point. Overall the show is supremely retarded. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:24, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:The most understated thing said so far. The show is supremely retard! Thank you [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:45, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The Green Berets and Spetznaz guys know absolutely jack shit about guns. and i agree with you MPM, this show is supremely retarded but it's Spike TV so what do you expect?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:05, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::The Provisional IRA had both AR-15s and AR-18s, and some M16s as well. These were all weapons purchased by their Irish-American sympathizers in the U.S.; the M16s were stolen from Camp LeJune, while the AR-15s and AR-18s were purchased at gun stores. Qaddafi sent them large amounts of Communist bloc weaponry, including AKs (mostly Romanian AIMs), RPG-7s, DShKs, RGD-5 grenades, and CZ-75s. Qaddafi sent them some Western-made guns, too, including "Wonder Nines", FN MAGs, and the LPO-50s. But the IRA almost never used the LPO-50s, except in a single recorded incident at an Army checkpoint.<br />
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::::I also found it interesting that they glossed over the fact that the IRA was actually one of the very first terrorist groups in the world to use the RPG-7 (they first used RPGs as early as 1972). But anyway, I think it's a really ridiculous comparison because the IRA and the Taliban are completely different types of groups. The IRA is more of a gang than a guerrilla army, and would be squeamish if they had to engage in the sort of activities that the Taliban do regularly. Euro-commie radical wanna-bes vs. Islamist tribal mountain savages = the savages win. Not to mention that the Taliban's fund-raising practices are WAY above the IRA's. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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It funny how these people are like rrr "I am super awesome mega warrior" It is just funny how they call themselves experts. wouldn't they actually shoot each other or be arrested for terrorist activities? Beeteles<br />
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== This Page ==<br />
This Page needs alot of work. I will try to fix it later.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:40, 9 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:What do you mean "Alot of work"? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::What i mean is that the screencaps need captions and some of the sections have no gun-pictures. It's more of "alot of work" as in quantity not difficulty.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Well some of the sections without gun pictures is because I didn't know which guns they were. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== "Experts??" ==<br />
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I don't think that anyone on either side of the "Green Beret vs Spetnatz had been an "expert" for ten years or more. I meen the Green Beret was pathetic with the beretta and he had a beer belly that sticks out 20".-beeteles<br />
:''Far be it for me to deem anyone's status at anything...I really think that the experts they get are actors who were just slightly better than the Z-list "talent" they got to do the re-enactments.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 02:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I'm sure the "experts" are retarded actors that don't know a goddamm thing about guns or anything military in general.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Case in point, Matt the Green Beret thinking his M4 was capable of both full auto and mechanical burst. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
::::And I've never met a Green Beret who actually wore his green beret into the field. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::::I have, but they were Nam era Green Berets.----~~<br />
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It also comes to mind that SF wouldn't typically be chosen for the type of "mission" that was portrayed in the closing battle. An op like that would normally be assigned to Rangers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:55, 27 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Really? Being not that informed or smart in shit like that,I always thought it was the enemy or situation that matterednot the operation. But again,I suck at shit like that. [[User:Pump_Shotty_Justice|Pump_Shotty_Justice]]<br />
::Different units have different applications. SF would typically be dropped behind enemy lines to train indigenous forces and build alliances with them, while Rangers would carry out direct action missions. SF ''can'' do the latter, but they don't specialize in it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:47, 28 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== green beret vs spetznaz ==<br />
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well i watched the show mainly becauseit was a modern re-anacment and well...i fuckin hate this show. the so called experts were shitty shots with the beretta. the test were really un-fair. come on. mossy 590 shooting a pig from a few yards out is supposed to be a fair test to the seiga shooting about 4 different 'jelly' targets while moving and some were behind cover. a frag grenade in side a washing machine is fair compared to throwing a grenade in a plast-glass corridor. bullshit. they wouldnt really use an E-TOOL for a melee weapon the would use a K-BAR knife. they would use kinmber 1911 variants or maybe a MK23 (or is that black-ops forces). and wasnt the makarov replaced by some other gun recently (last 5-10 years or so)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 15:26, 28 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, Marines use KA-Bars, but many servemen use them because they are very reliable. Special Forces do use glocks and the occasional Colt, but the MK23 was phased out due to it being just overall too big of a weapon. And E-tools are extremely dangerous and quite effective when you slice something with it. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]<br />
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:Couple of things I would like to point out. Yes, the Makarov is slowly being replaced by the GSh-18 pistol, which came out in 2000. I agree that the tests were incredibly unfair, though even in the shotgun test, the saiga won, even though it's test was unfair. I believe they used the E-tool as the Green Beret melee weapon because if it was just a knife against a ballistics knife, the ballistics knife would have too much of an advantage. With the E-Tool, which is still a very capable weapon, they at least have a longer reach in straight up melee combat. And no, as far as I'm aware, and this is supported by my limited research on the subject, the Green Berets would use the Beretta. The only branch that ever used/still uses a Kimber model was the MEU. [[Special:Contributions/71.199.132.177|71.199.132.177]] 19:27, 28 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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should have been Delta vs Spetnaz...ahhaha just kidding, but seriously that episode pissed off a ton of people, you'd think that the Green Berets would be equiped with more customized M4s and such, and each fire team would be different. wheres the team's DMR? wheres the team's machine gunner? etc etc and i mean for both sides...and a shotgun is a secondary weapon, never a primary when it comes to a fireteam, unless you're in SWAT or something. M9s, M11s, MEUs, etc etc, each Green Beret or Special Forces soldier has his choice of what kind of firearms he wants to carry. <br />
overall...bullshit<br />
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do ya know what really pissedmeoff. when the spetznaz soldier threw the grenade in the washing machine he walked off and lit up a smoke like he was some badass cool soldier. very unproffesional. and made him look like a jackass. if i was on COD...hahahah just messing around im not an 8 year old--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:24, 28 February 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Saving_Private_Ryan&diff=235348Talk:Saving Private Ryan2010-02-15T16:58:27Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* M1 Garand */</p>
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<div>I apoligize to anybody's pictures I replaced but I was making all the pictures 600px and some wouldn't go past 500px. I hope everyone likes the completed SPR page. - GM<br />
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===M1 Garand===<br />
Some comments in the article are made about soldiers holding their M1 rifles with one hand. The comments say that the weapons shown are replicas due to their obvious light weight. While I've never held an M1, I have held an M14 with one hand. It is not difficult to hold such a weapon with one hand, especially for brief periods. [[User:Axeman|Axeman]] 22:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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:An M14 is maybe a pound or two lighter (less wood and a little smaller) but Garands are bulky and heavy. They may have been accurate and reliable but they were very cumbersome. For maybe a few seconds you can hold an M1 with one hand but it is terribly uncomfortable and definitely not how someone would hold a Garand comfortably when not reading it. Plus many of those soldiers hold the gun with one hand at an forward tilted angle, which would cause quite some strain on the wrist. (I repeated everything they did with their Garands in the movie and most of it is not that easy) And what I mean to say by lightweigh replicas is that it is likely the extras were using resin replicas that were nice and light but even the main characters had lighter rifles, they were considerably gutted in heavy spots to make them easier to carry. -[[User:Gunmaster45|GM45]]<br />
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::Something else I realized he said that is bullshit; 'An m14 is maybe a pound or two lighter'. A GI M14 weighs ~2 pounds more than an M1 garand. It is EASIER to hold an M1 than an M14. M1s are lighter due to being SHORTER and having a much smaller magazine (8 rounds of 30 caliber ammo versus 10-20 rounds of 30 caliber ammo). GM, it appears you have no fucking clue what you're talking about, and I really question if you ever held either of the firearms in question. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 16:51, 15 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::An M1 Garand weighs less than 10 pounds. It is not hard to hold 10 pounds in one hand, and if you really think its some sort of feat of strength, you need to go to a gym. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:34, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Was about to say the same. But if you're happen to be that weak, you should carry something like M1 carbine or a Grease gun. Or sit and fill the blanks in HQ.<br />
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Holding the thumb to the offside, as shown in the illustration of Upham firing his Garand, is actually the "proper" way to hold the rifle to AVOID getting hit in the nose by one's own thumb in recoil. While the gas operation of the Garand somewhat tames the recoil impulse, there's still plenty. Also, the stock and upper handguard will protect the hand from being pinched by the reciprocating operating rod, as long as the finger tips are not actually stuck in the gap between the two parts of the stock. Upham shows good form, for a guy who appeared to have no prior experience as a rifleman.<br />
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Okay I'll be contentious just for the heck of it. I would argue that in combat with adrenalin blasting through your body you might just be able to hold the M1 Garand with one hand for awhile. Not only would you be having a temporary increase in strength but you probably wouldn't notice the discomfort for awhile. Adrenalin is a weird thing. Many stories from wars of soldiers getting shot and not even realizing it until minutes after the fact.Just thought I would put that at there. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:05, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I have to agree that it's not that far fetched to hold an M1 Garand one handed. I own a Mossberg 500 with a 28" barrel and a Mosin Nagant 91/30. The Mossberg is about 7.5lbs and I do one hand hold reloads, holding the shotgun on target. The Mosin is 8 1/2 lbs and I have no trouble holding it one handed. I'm not a trained soldier, nor a weight lifter. But, it seems to me that a trained soldier should have no problem lifting one more pound than I can.<br />
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== B.A.R. pronouncing ==<br />
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I'm still trying to understand why some particular gun people would rather spell the acryomn B-A-R, instead of just calling it "BAR". It's abbrieviated like a word that anyone recognize. I don't see why some gun nuts find it semi offensive when someone doesn't "pronounce" it right. It's like if ppl started calling NATO "N.A.T.O." cause it stands for something instead of just one flowing "word" NATO, or NORAD by each letter. I just don't get it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's just how it is. Everyone called it a B.A.R. and Bar just doesn't sound profesional. Personally I find it annoying when people call an A.C.O.G. an Acog, although this is okayed by most people so it's just a pet peeve of mine. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
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Wow you can see the decimal points and dashes in a "pronunciation" of a word" ?? You sir are gifted.<br />
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Maybe cos 'bar' is a word and people could think you're refering to a pub or a metal rod, whereas NATO, NORAD and ACOG etc. aren't similar to real words.<br />
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How it's pronounced is irrelevant. The site wants to appear professional, so it's best to properly punctuate the abbreviation. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 04:06, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==Thompson Submachine Gun==<br />
The nickname "Tommy Gun" is derived from either it's use by British troops ("Tommies") early in WWII, or is a reference John T. Thompson, who inspired its development.<br />
The M1 and M1A1 were both easier and cheaper to make successors to the earlier M1928 model. The most obvious difference between the earlier M1928 and the two later models was the bolt cocking handle being moved to the side of the later models - it was on top on earlier Thompson versions - and the most obvious visible difference between the M1 and the M1A1 was the protective "ears" around the rear sight of the latter. Late-production M1928s and M1s had just an L-shaped piece of sheetmetal, with the peep sight drilled through it, welded to the top of the receiver.<br />
::Um thanks, but why? We all know this information.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Then why is differing or contrary information still on the site? Attention is specifically drawn to Upham's holding his Garand with his thumb off to the side, with the comment that it would cause the very problem that holding the rifle that way will prevent. As you can see in the pic of Vin Diesel, wrapping the thumb around the pistol grip is the way to get a big rap on the nose from your own thumb.<br />
My comments about the Thompson (other than the Tommy Gun reference, which wasn't really specific to anything), is that the currently posted information says the M1A1 replaced the more expensive/complicated M1, when the M1 was actually the first of the "cheap" Thompsons, with the M1A1 being merely the definitive cheap Thompson. The Blish lock deletion, side cocking knob, fixed sight, smooth barrel, and other mods were already present on the M1.<br />
::Then FIX it. I'm sure there are tons of little mistakes all over IMFDB and we can't catch them all. And users are supposed to catch mistakes when they see them. Sure, sometimes there will be 'contention' regarding an edit, but it it's an obvious mistake, then no one will complain. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== M2 Mortar ==<br />
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I think the opinion on which end of the mortar shell to bang is incorrect. If the mortar shells are time fused (for airburst) the impact on the tail would simulate the high g-forces experienced when firing the shell from the tube. The time element would start burning/turning and then detonate later. If the shells are impact detonated the tail tap would arm the impact fuzing, the next shock would be the shell coming back to earth.<br />
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You are correct , mortar roundsare armed when they drop to the bottom of the mortar tube at the instant of firing. The movie is correct, the caption under the pic is wrong. Hitting the nose of the mortar against the base plate as the caption suggest would either do nothing if the fuse is not armed or would cause it to detonate in the guys hand.<br />
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== Scope differnces ==<br />
<br />
by the looks of things jackson uses three different scopes in some of the pics, i the scene where he is adjusting his scope for windage the scope clearly has a wider front end , in the stand-off scene where wall colapases he is using one the has a wider back end and a completely round front, and in the bell tower the scope has two vertical bars sticking out of the rifle which arent present in the previous scenes<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
A big problem I see is the caption under the unertl scope states he s twisting the front objective to adjust the elevation . The front objective is adjustable but just like all other scopes with adjustable objective all he is doing is adjusting the parallax. This adjustment keeps the cross hairs from apearing as if there floating around by properly focusing the scope for the range its being used at. Just because there are distance markings on the part he is turning it has nothing to do with elevation. You can clearly see the elevation and windage knobs, which he does adjust at one point , on the top and side of the rear scope mount.<br />
<br />
<br />
As far as bullet impact and crosshair relationship at the moment of impact for the bullet, of course they dont match , forgetting the fact that its a movie we're talking about the simple fact that it take some length of time between when the shot is fired and the bullet impacts makes this a reality and historicly accurate. Simply put when you pull the trigger on any gun there is a delay before the bullet impacts your target , during this time the gun has begun to recoil, muscles contarct etc and the sights will not be pointed at the same object as they were at the moment of firing, simple physics. [panaceabeachbum]<br />
==Prop Guns==<br />
I almost bought a prop gun used in this movie from a guy with around 20-30 of them at a gun show about 7 years ago-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:21, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'd say none but MPM can be MPM, but we could always use more screen-used guns.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
==Inaccuracy==<br />
:My teacher showed us the begining of this movie in History when we started our '''WW1''' unit! You would think that a US history teacher would know that D-Day didn't occur in WW1-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:47, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Helmet Throwing==<br />
I watched this again for old times sake, and I had to laugh at the scene where Horvath and a German both have rifle jams, so what else could they do but pitch their helmets at each other and go for their sidearms? Unnecessary, but anything to stop your enemy from killing you I guess. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Saving_Private_Ryan&diff=235346Talk:Saving Private Ryan2010-02-15T16:51:53Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* M1 Garand */</p>
<hr />
<div>I apoligize to anybody's pictures I replaced but I was making all the pictures 600px and some wouldn't go past 500px. I hope everyone likes the completed SPR page. - GM<br />
<br />
===M1 Garand===<br />
Some comments in the article are made about soldiers holding their M1 rifles with one hand. The comments say that the weapons shown are replicas due to their obvious light weight. While I've never held an M1, I have held an M14 with one hand. It is not difficult to hold such a weapon with one hand, especially for brief periods. [[User:Axeman|Axeman]] 22:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:An M14 is maybe a pound or two lighter (less wood and a little smaller) but Garands are bulky and heavy. They may have been accurate and reliable but they were very cumbersome. For maybe a few seconds you can hold an M1 with one hand but it is terribly uncomfortable and definitely not how someone would hold a Garand comfortably when not reading it. Plus many of those soldiers hold the gun with one hand at an forward tilted angle, which would cause quite some strain on the wrist. (I repeated everything they did with their Garands in the movie and most of it is not that easy) And what I mean to say by lightweigh replicas is that it is likely the extras were using resin replicas that were nice and light but even the main characters had lighter rifles, they were considerably gutted in heavy spots to make them easier to carry. -[[User:Gunmaster45|GM45]]<br />
<br />
::Something else I realized he said that is bullshit; 'An m14 is maybe a pound or two lighter'. A GI M14 weighs ~2 pounds more than an M1 garand. It is EASIER to hold an M1 than an M14. M1s are lighterd due to being SHORTER and having a much smaller magazine (8 rounds of 30 caliber ammo versus 10-20 rounds of 30 caliber ammo). GM, it appears you have no fucking clue what you're talking about, and I really question if you ever held either of the firearms in question. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 16:51, 15 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::An M1 Garand weighs less than 10 pounds. It is not hard to hold 10 pounds in one hand, and if you really think its some sort of feat of strength, you need to go to a gym. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:34, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Was about to say the same. But if you're happen to be that weak, you should carry something like M1 carbine or a Grease gun. Or sit and fill the blanks in HQ.<br />
<br />
Holding the thumb to the offside, as shown in the illustration of Upham firing his Garand, is actually the "proper" way to hold the rifle to AVOID getting hit in the nose by one's own thumb in recoil. While the gas operation of the Garand somewhat tames the recoil impulse, there's still plenty. Also, the stock and upper handguard will protect the hand from being pinched by the reciprocating operating rod, as long as the finger tips are not actually stuck in the gap between the two parts of the stock. Upham shows good form, for a guy who appeared to have no prior experience as a rifleman.<br />
<br />
Okay I'll be contentious just for the heck of it. I would argue that in combat with adrenalin blasting through your body you might just be able to hold the M1 Garand with one hand for awhile. Not only would you be having a temporary increase in strength but you probably wouldn't notice the discomfort for awhile. Adrenalin is a weird thing. Many stories from wars of soldiers getting shot and not even realizing it until minutes after the fact.Just thought I would put that at there. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:05, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have to agree that it's not that far fetched to hold an M1 Garand one handed. I own a Mossberg 500 with a 28" barrel and a Mosin Nagant 91/30. The Mossberg is about 7.5lbs and I do one hand hold reloads, holding the shotgun on target. The Mosin is 8 1/2 lbs and I have no trouble holding it one handed. I'm not a trained soldier, nor a weight lifter. But, it seems to me that a trained soldier should have no problem lifting one more pound than I can.<br />
<br />
== B.A.R. pronouncing ==<br />
<br />
I'm still trying to understand why some particular gun people would rather spell the acryomn B-A-R, instead of just calling it "BAR". It's abbrieviated like a word that anyone recognize. I don't see why some gun nuts find it semi offensive when someone doesn't "pronounce" it right. It's like if ppl started calling NATO "N.A.T.O." cause it stands for something instead of just one flowing "word" NATO, or NORAD by each letter. I just don't get it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's just how it is. Everyone called it a B.A.R. and Bar just doesn't sound profesional. Personally I find it annoying when people call an A.C.O.G. an Acog, although this is okayed by most people so it's just a pet peeve of mine. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
<br />
Wow you can see the decimal points and dashes in a "pronunciation" of a word" ?? You sir are gifted.<br />
<br />
Maybe cos 'bar' is a word and people could think you're refering to a pub or a metal rod, whereas NATO, NORAD and ACOG etc. aren't similar to real words.<br />
<br />
How it's pronounced is irrelevant. The site wants to appear professional, so it's best to properly punctuate the abbreviation. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 04:06, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Thompson Submachine Gun==<br />
The nickname "Tommy Gun" is derived from either it's use by British troops ("Tommies") early in WWII, or is a reference John T. Thompson, who inspired its development.<br />
The M1 and M1A1 were both easier and cheaper to make successors to the earlier M1928 model. The most obvious difference between the earlier M1928 and the two later models was the bolt cocking handle being moved to the side of the later models - it was on top on earlier Thompson versions - and the most obvious visible difference between the M1 and the M1A1 was the protective "ears" around the rear sight of the latter. Late-production M1928s and M1s had just an L-shaped piece of sheetmetal, with the peep sight drilled through it, welded to the top of the receiver.<br />
::Um thanks, but why? We all know this information.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Then why is differing or contrary information still on the site? Attention is specifically drawn to Upham's holding his Garand with his thumb off to the side, with the comment that it would cause the very problem that holding the rifle that way will prevent. As you can see in the pic of Vin Diesel, wrapping the thumb around the pistol grip is the way to get a big rap on the nose from your own thumb.<br />
My comments about the Thompson (other than the Tommy Gun reference, which wasn't really specific to anything), is that the currently posted information says the M1A1 replaced the more expensive/complicated M1, when the M1 was actually the first of the "cheap" Thompsons, with the M1A1 being merely the definitive cheap Thompson. The Blish lock deletion, side cocking knob, fixed sight, smooth barrel, and other mods were already present on the M1.<br />
::Then FIX it. I'm sure there are tons of little mistakes all over IMFDB and we can't catch them all. And users are supposed to catch mistakes when they see them. Sure, sometimes there will be 'contention' regarding an edit, but it it's an obvious mistake, then no one will complain. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M2 Mortar ==<br />
<br />
I think the opinion on which end of the mortar shell to bang is incorrect. If the mortar shells are time fused (for airburst) the impact on the tail would simulate the high g-forces experienced when firing the shell from the tube. The time element would start burning/turning and then detonate later. If the shells are impact detonated the tail tap would arm the impact fuzing, the next shock would be the shell coming back to earth.<br />
<br />
You are correct , mortar roundsare armed when they drop to the bottom of the mortar tube at the instant of firing. The movie is correct, the caption under the pic is wrong. Hitting the nose of the mortar against the base plate as the caption suggest would either do nothing if the fuse is not armed or would cause it to detonate in the guys hand.<br />
<br />
== Scope differnces ==<br />
<br />
by the looks of things jackson uses three different scopes in some of the pics, i the scene where he is adjusting his scope for windage the scope clearly has a wider front end , in the stand-off scene where wall colapases he is using one the has a wider back end and a completely round front, and in the bell tower the scope has two vertical bars sticking out of the rifle which arent present in the previous scenes<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
A big problem I see is the caption under the unertl scope states he s twisting the front objective to adjust the elevation . The front objective is adjustable but just like all other scopes with adjustable objective all he is doing is adjusting the parallax. This adjustment keeps the cross hairs from apearing as if there floating around by properly focusing the scope for the range its being used at. Just because there are distance markings on the part he is turning it has nothing to do with elevation. You can clearly see the elevation and windage knobs, which he does adjust at one point , on the top and side of the rear scope mount.<br />
<br />
<br />
As far as bullet impact and crosshair relationship at the moment of impact for the bullet, of course they dont match , forgetting the fact that its a movie we're talking about the simple fact that it take some length of time between when the shot is fired and the bullet impacts makes this a reality and historicly accurate. Simply put when you pull the trigger on any gun there is a delay before the bullet impacts your target , during this time the gun has begun to recoil, muscles contarct etc and the sights will not be pointed at the same object as they were at the moment of firing, simple physics. [panaceabeachbum]<br />
==Prop Guns==<br />
I almost bought a prop gun used in this movie from a guy with around 20-30 of them at a gun show about 7 years ago-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:21, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'd say none but MPM can be MPM, but we could always use more screen-used guns.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
==Inaccuracy==<br />
:My teacher showed us the begining of this movie in History when we started our '''WW1''' unit! You would think that a US history teacher would know that D-Day didn't occur in WW1-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:47, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Helmet Throwing==<br />
I watched this again for old times sake, and I had to laugh at the scene where Horvath and a German both have rifle jams, so what else could they do but pitch their helmets at each other and go for their sidearms? Unnecessary, but anything to stop your enemy from killing you I guess. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Saving_Private_Ryan&diff=235345Talk:Saving Private Ryan2010-02-15T16:51:13Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* M1 Garand */</p>
<hr />
<div>I apoligize to anybody's pictures I replaced but I was making all the pictures 600px and some wouldn't go past 500px. I hope everyone likes the completed SPR page. - GM<br />
<br />
===M1 Garand===<br />
Some comments in the article are made about soldiers holding their M1 rifles with one hand. The comments say that the weapons shown are replicas due to their obvious light weight. While I've never held an M1, I have held an M14 with one hand. It is not difficult to hold such a weapon with one hand, especially for brief periods. [[User:Axeman|Axeman]] 22:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:An M14 is maybe a pound or two lighter (less wood and a little smaller) but Garands are bulky and heavy. They may have been accurate and reliable but they were very cumbersome. For maybe a few seconds you can hold an M1 with one hand but it is terribly uncomfortable and definitely not how someone would hold a Garand comfortably when not reading it. Plus many of those soldiers hold the gun with one hand at an forward tilted angle, which would cause quite some strain on the wrist. (I repeated everything they did with their Garands in the movie and most of it is not that easy) And what I mean to say by lightweigh replicas is that it is likely the extras were using resin replicas that were nice and light but even the main characters had lighter rifles, they were considerably gutted in heavy spots to make them easier to carry. -[[User:Gunmaster45|GM45]]<br />
<br />
:Something else I realized he said that is bullshit; 'An m14 is maybe a pound or two lighter'. A GI M14 weighs ~2 pounds more than an M1 garand. It is EASIER to hold an M1 than an M14. M1s are lighterd due to being SHORTER and having a much smaller magazine (8 rounds of 30 caliber ammo versus 10-20 rounds of 30 caliber ammo). GM, it appears you have no fucking clue what you're talking about, and I really question if you ever held either of the firearms in question. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 16:51, 15 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::An M1 Garand weighs less than 10 pounds. It is not hard to hold 10 pounds in one hand, and if you really think its some sort of feat of strength, you need to go to a gym. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:34, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Was about to say the same. But if you're happen to be that weak, you should carry something like M1 carbine or a Grease gun. Or sit and fill the blanks in HQ.<br />
<br />
Holding the thumb to the offside, as shown in the illustration of Upham firing his Garand, is actually the "proper" way to hold the rifle to AVOID getting hit in the nose by one's own thumb in recoil. While the gas operation of the Garand somewhat tames the recoil impulse, there's still plenty. Also, the stock and upper handguard will protect the hand from being pinched by the reciprocating operating rod, as long as the finger tips are not actually stuck in the gap between the two parts of the stock. Upham shows good form, for a guy who appeared to have no prior experience as a rifleman.<br />
<br />
Okay I'll be contentious just for the heck of it. I would argue that in combat with adrenalin blasting through your body you might just be able to hold the M1 Garand with one hand for awhile. Not only would you be having a temporary increase in strength but you probably wouldn't notice the discomfort for awhile. Adrenalin is a weird thing. Many stories from wars of soldiers getting shot and not even realizing it until minutes after the fact.Just thought I would put that at there. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:05, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have to agree that it's not that far fetched to hold an M1 Garand one handed. I own a Mossberg 500 with a 28" barrel and a Mosin Nagant 91/30. The Mossberg is about 7.5lbs and I do one hand hold reloads, holding the shotgun on target. The Mosin is 8 1/2 lbs and I have no trouble holding it one handed. I'm not a trained soldier, nor a weight lifter. But, it seems to me that a trained soldier should have no problem lifting one more pound than I can.<br />
<br />
== B.A.R. pronouncing ==<br />
<br />
I'm still trying to understand why some particular gun people would rather spell the acryomn B-A-R, instead of just calling it "BAR". It's abbrieviated like a word that anyone recognize. I don't see why some gun nuts find it semi offensive when someone doesn't "pronounce" it right. It's like if ppl started calling NATO "N.A.T.O." cause it stands for something instead of just one flowing "word" NATO, or NORAD by each letter. I just don't get it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's just how it is. Everyone called it a B.A.R. and Bar just doesn't sound profesional. Personally I find it annoying when people call an A.C.O.G. an Acog, although this is okayed by most people so it's just a pet peeve of mine. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
<br />
Wow you can see the decimal points and dashes in a "pronunciation" of a word" ?? You sir are gifted.<br />
<br />
Maybe cos 'bar' is a word and people could think you're refering to a pub or a metal rod, whereas NATO, NORAD and ACOG etc. aren't similar to real words.<br />
<br />
How it's pronounced is irrelevant. The site wants to appear professional, so it's best to properly punctuate the abbreviation. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 04:06, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Thompson Submachine Gun==<br />
The nickname "Tommy Gun" is derived from either it's use by British troops ("Tommies") early in WWII, or is a reference John T. Thompson, who inspired its development.<br />
The M1 and M1A1 were both easier and cheaper to make successors to the earlier M1928 model. The most obvious difference between the earlier M1928 and the two later models was the bolt cocking handle being moved to the side of the later models - it was on top on earlier Thompson versions - and the most obvious visible difference between the M1 and the M1A1 was the protective "ears" around the rear sight of the latter. Late-production M1928s and M1s had just an L-shaped piece of sheetmetal, with the peep sight drilled through it, welded to the top of the receiver.<br />
::Um thanks, but why? We all know this information.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Then why is differing or contrary information still on the site? Attention is specifically drawn to Upham's holding his Garand with his thumb off to the side, with the comment that it would cause the very problem that holding the rifle that way will prevent. As you can see in the pic of Vin Diesel, wrapping the thumb around the pistol grip is the way to get a big rap on the nose from your own thumb.<br />
My comments about the Thompson (other than the Tommy Gun reference, which wasn't really specific to anything), is that the currently posted information says the M1A1 replaced the more expensive/complicated M1, when the M1 was actually the first of the "cheap" Thompsons, with the M1A1 being merely the definitive cheap Thompson. The Blish lock deletion, side cocking knob, fixed sight, smooth barrel, and other mods were already present on the M1.<br />
::Then FIX it. I'm sure there are tons of little mistakes all over IMFDB and we can't catch them all. And users are supposed to catch mistakes when they see them. Sure, sometimes there will be 'contention' regarding an edit, but it it's an obvious mistake, then no one will complain. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M2 Mortar ==<br />
<br />
I think the opinion on which end of the mortar shell to bang is incorrect. If the mortar shells are time fused (for airburst) the impact on the tail would simulate the high g-forces experienced when firing the shell from the tube. The time element would start burning/turning and then detonate later. If the shells are impact detonated the tail tap would arm the impact fuzing, the next shock would be the shell coming back to earth.<br />
<br />
You are correct , mortar roundsare armed when they drop to the bottom of the mortar tube at the instant of firing. The movie is correct, the caption under the pic is wrong. Hitting the nose of the mortar against the base plate as the caption suggest would either do nothing if the fuse is not armed or would cause it to detonate in the guys hand.<br />
<br />
== Scope differnces ==<br />
<br />
by the looks of things jackson uses three different scopes in some of the pics, i the scene where he is adjusting his scope for windage the scope clearly has a wider front end , in the stand-off scene where wall colapases he is using one the has a wider back end and a completely round front, and in the bell tower the scope has two vertical bars sticking out of the rifle which arent present in the previous scenes<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
A big problem I see is the caption under the unertl scope states he s twisting the front objective to adjust the elevation . The front objective is adjustable but just like all other scopes with adjustable objective all he is doing is adjusting the parallax. This adjustment keeps the cross hairs from apearing as if there floating around by properly focusing the scope for the range its being used at. Just because there are distance markings on the part he is turning it has nothing to do with elevation. You can clearly see the elevation and windage knobs, which he does adjust at one point , on the top and side of the rear scope mount.<br />
<br />
<br />
As far as bullet impact and crosshair relationship at the moment of impact for the bullet, of course they dont match , forgetting the fact that its a movie we're talking about the simple fact that it take some length of time between when the shot is fired and the bullet impacts makes this a reality and historicly accurate. Simply put when you pull the trigger on any gun there is a delay before the bullet impacts your target , during this time the gun has begun to recoil, muscles contarct etc and the sights will not be pointed at the same object as they were at the moment of firing, simple physics. [panaceabeachbum]<br />
==Prop Guns==<br />
I almost bought a prop gun used in this movie from a guy with around 20-30 of them at a gun show about 7 years ago-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:21, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'd say none but MPM can be MPM, but we could always use more screen-used guns.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
==Inaccuracy==<br />
:My teacher showed us the begining of this movie in History when we started our '''WW1''' unit! You would think that a US history teacher would know that D-Day didn't occur in WW1-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:47, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Helmet Throwing==<br />
I watched this again for old times sake, and I had to laugh at the scene where Horvath and a German both have rifle jams, so what else could they do but pitch their helmets at each other and go for their sidearms? Unnecessary, but anything to stop your enemy from killing you I guess. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Saving_Private_Ryan&diff=234935Talk:Saving Private Ryan2010-02-14T13:34:17Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* M1 Garand */</p>
<hr />
<div>I apoligize to anybody's pictures I replaced but I was making all the pictures 600px and some wouldn't go past 500px. I hope everyone likes the completed SPR page. - GM<br />
<br />
===M1 Garand===<br />
Some comments in the article are made about soldiers holding their M1 rifles with one hand. The comments say that the weapons shown are replicas due to their obvious light weight. While I've never held an M1, I have held an M14 with one hand. It is not difficult to hold such a weapon with one hand, especially for brief periods. [[User:Axeman|Axeman]] 22:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:An M14 is maybe a pound or two lighter (less wood and a little smaller) but Garands are bulky and heavy. They may have been accurate and reliable but they were very cumbersome. For maybe a few seconds you can hold an M1 with one hand but it is terribly uncomfortable and definitely not how someone would hold a Garand comfortably when not reading it. Plus many of those soldiers hold the gun with one hand at an forward tilted angle, which would cause quite some strain on the wrist. (I repeated everything they did with their Garands in the movie and most of it is not that easy) And what I mean to say by lightweigh replicas is that it is likely the extras were using resin replicas that were nice and light but even the main characters had lighter rifles, they were considerably gutted in heavy spots to make them easier to carry. -[[User:Gunmaster45|GM45]]<br />
<br />
::An M1 Garand weighs less than 10 pounds. It is not hard to hold 10 pounds in one hand, and if you really think its some sort of feat of strength, you need to go to a gym. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 13:34, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Holding the thumb to the offside, as shown in the illustration of Upham firing his Garand, is actually the "proper" way to hold the rifle to AVOID getting hit in the nose by one's own thumb in recoil. While the gas operation of the Garand somewhat tames the recoil impulse, there's still plenty. Also, the stock and upper handguard will protect the hand from being pinched by the reciprocating operating rod, as long as the finger tips are not actually stuck in the gap between the two parts of the stock. Upham shows good form, for a guy who appeared to have no prior experience as a rifleman.<br />
<br />
Okay I'll be contentious just for the heck of it. I would argue that in combat with adrenalin blasting through your body you might just be able to hold the M1 Garand with one hand for awhile. Not only would you be having a temporary increase in strength but you probably wouldn't notice the discomfort for awhile. Adrenalin is a weird thing. Many stories from wars of soldiers getting shot and not even realizing it until minutes after the fact.Just thought I would put that at there. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:05, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have to agree that it's not that far fetched to hold an M1 Garand one handed. I own a Mossberg 500 with a 28" barrel and a Mosin Nagant 91/30. The Mossberg is about 7.5lbs and I do one hand hold reloads, holding the shotgun on target. The Mosin is 8 1/2 lbs and I have no trouble holding it one handed. I'm not a trained soldier, nor a weight lifter. But, it seems to me that a trained soldier should have no problem lifting one more pound than I can.<br />
<br />
== B.A.R. pronouncing ==<br />
<br />
I'm still trying to understand why some particular gun people would rather spell the acryomn B-A-R, instead of just calling it "BAR". It's abbrieviated like a word that anyone recognize. I don't see why some gun nuts find it semi offensive when someone doesn't "pronounce" it right. It's like if ppl started calling NATO "N.A.T.O." cause it stands for something instead of just one flowing "word" NATO, or NORAD by each letter. I just don't get it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's just how it is. Everyone called it a B.A.R. and Bar just doesn't sound profesional. Personally I find it annoying when people call an A.C.O.G. an Acog, although this is okayed by most people so it's just a pet peeve of mine. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
<br />
Wow you can see the decimal points and dashes in a "pronunciation" of a word" ?? You sir are gifted.<br />
<br />
Maybe cos 'bar' is a word and people could think you're refering to a pub or a metal rod, whereas NATO, NORAD and ACOG etc. aren't similar to real words.<br />
<br />
How it's pronounced is irrelevant. The site wants to appear professional, so it's best to properly punctuate the abbreviation. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 04:06, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Thompson Submachine Gun==<br />
The nickname "Tommy Gun" is derived from either it's use by British troops ("Tommies") early in WWII, or is a reference John T. Thompson, who inspired its development.<br />
The M1 and M1A1 were both easier and cheaper to make successors to the earlier M1928 model. The most obvious difference between the earlier M1928 and the two later models was the bolt cocking handle being moved to the side of the later models - it was on top on earlier Thompson versions - and the most obvious visible difference between the M1 and the M1A1 was the protective "ears" around the rear sight of the latter. Late-production M1928s and M1s had just an L-shaped piece of sheetmetal, with the peep sight drilled through it, welded to the top of the receiver.<br />
::Um thanks, but why? We all know this information.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Then why is differing or contrary information still on the site? Attention is specifically drawn to Upham's holding his Garand with his thumb off to the side, with the comment that it would cause the very problem that holding the rifle that way will prevent. As you can see in the pic of Vin Diesel, wrapping the thumb around the pistol grip is the way to get a big rap on the nose from your own thumb.<br />
My comments about the Thompson (other than the Tommy Gun reference, which wasn't really specific to anything), is that the currently posted information says the M1A1 replaced the more expensive/complicated M1, when the M1 was actually the first of the "cheap" Thompsons, with the M1A1 being merely the definitive cheap Thompson. The Blish lock deletion, side cocking knob, fixed sight, smooth barrel, and other mods were already present on the M1.<br />
::Then FIX it. I'm sure there are tons of little mistakes all over IMFDB and we can't catch them all. And users are supposed to catch mistakes when they see them. Sure, sometimes there will be 'contention' regarding an edit, but it it's an obvious mistake, then no one will complain. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M2 Mortar ==<br />
<br />
I think the opinion on which end of the mortar shell to bang is incorrect. If the mortar shells are time fused (for airburst) the impact on the tail would simulate the high g-forces experienced when firing the shell from the tube. The time element would start burning/turning and then detonate later. If the shells are impact detonated the tail tap would arm the impact fuzing, the next shock would be the shell coming back to earth.<br />
<br />
You are correct , mortar roundsare armed when they drop to the bottom of the mortar tube at the instant of firing. The movie is correct, the caption under the pic is wrong. Hitting the nose of the mortar against the base plate as the caption suggest would either do nothing if the fuse is not armed or would cause it to detonate in the guys hand.<br />
<br />
== Scope differnces ==<br />
<br />
by the looks of things jackson uses three different scopes in some of the pics, i the scene where he is adjusting his scope for windage the scope clearly has a wider front end , in the stand-off scene where wall colapases he is using one the has a wider back end and a completely round front, and in the bell tower the scope has two vertical bars sticking out of the rifle which arent present in the previous scenes<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
A big problem I see is the caption under the unertl scope states he s twisting the front objective to adjust the elevation . The front objective is adjustable but just like all other scopes with adjustable objective all he is doing is adjusting the parallax. This adjustment keeps the cross hairs from apearing as if there floating around by properly focusing the scope for the range its being used at. Just because there are distance markings on the part he is turning it has nothing to do with elevation. You can clearly see the elevation and windage knobs, which he does adjust at one point , on the top and side of the rear scope mount.<br />
<br />
<br />
As far as bullet impact and crosshair relationship at the moment of impact for the bullet, of course they dont match , forgetting the fact that its a movie we're talking about the simple fact that it take some length of time between when the shot is fired and the bullet impacts makes this a reality and historicly accurate. Simply put when you pull the trigger on any gun there is a delay before the bullet impacts your target , during this time the gun has begun to recoil, muscles contarct etc and the sights will not be pointed at the same object as they were at the moment of firing, simple physics. [panaceabeachbum]<br />
==Prop Guns==<br />
I almost bought a prop gun used in this movie from a guy with around 20-30 of them at a gun show about 7 years ago-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:21, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'd say none but MPM can be MPM, but we could always use more screen-used guns.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
==Inaccuracy==<br />
:My teacher showed us the begining of this movie in History when we started our '''WW1''' unit! You would think that a US history teacher would know that D-Day didn't occur in WW1-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:47, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Helmet Throwing==<br />
I watched this again for old times sake, and I had to laugh at the scene where Horvath and a German both have rifle jams, so what else could they do but pitch their helmets at each other and go for their sidearms? Unnecessary, but anything to stop your enemy from killing you I guess. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Legion&diff=233126Talk:Legion2010-02-05T21:24:20Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>This movie looks awesome-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:58, 22 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah it does --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I found it really funny how I noticed straightaway on the poster that the MP5K was actually an SP89.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
I think the angels have metal wings. Rex095<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ALL SCREENCAPS FROM ''LEGION-REDBAND TRAILER'' http://www.spike.com/blog/legion-red-band/85055'''<br />
<br />
<br />
Storyline I got to say looks original. Haven't seen another film like it. Cant wait for it --[[User:k9870|k9870]]<br />
<br />
'''G36's'''<br />
<br />
Arn't these actually just G36 airsoft replicas? I have one at home. You can see the ejecton ports are fake and meerley just cast in plastic. --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 01:17, 19 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I just saw this.....it was weird. The metal wings were badass though, and some of the movie was just funny. -k9870<br />
<br />
This movie isn't weird, it's crap. This movie was, in all fairness, absolutely terrible. There were plot holes big enough to fly a C130 through. The whole thing was just low-grade gun porn (oh man, they showcased guns that I've only seen in every movie with a gun in it. 1911? Check. M16? Check. MP5? Check. Glock? Check. Some sort of shotgun? Check.) stereotypical characters (WASP? Check. Rebellious daughter? Check. Black Man from the streets? Check. Religious Black Man? Check. Hillbillies? Check.), bad acting, and plotholes.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 06:54, 24 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Lowl.. Too rite, mate.<br />
<br />
<br />
:The gangsta has a M1911 and all the rednecks have Glocks? The director got his gun stereotypes mixed up<br />
<br />
::It' because Michael breaks into a gun store and takes lots of guns and when he arrives at Paradise Falls it is said that he gives the guys Glocks and MP5s... I haven't seen the film yet, but I've read the script. Can't wait to see this, inspite of the reviews... ;)<br />
<br />
<br />
From a religious standpoint... Lord, this movie sucked. First of all, the idea that God stopped forgiving people. Ok, the idea sucks, but I understand if you're not a Christian or familiar with the bible. The idea that God NEEDED something? He is GOD. He needs NOTHING. Even to a nonereligious person, the idea that a supreme, all powerful Being needed something is pretty... argh! And who the beep is this baby, anyway? The Second Coming? Messiah point-two? Why on Earth (forgive the pun) would God decide to exterminate humanity while this whole super baby deal was going on? I don't expect Hollywood to be reverent, I'm not that crazy, but do I expect them to at least get a feel for the God they're portraying. Whew. I'm done.<br />
<br />
::From a non-crazy standpoint... The idea of a god is ridiculous itself! :) LOL... This is just a brains-roll-out-fun-roll-in -type o' movie that's not to be taken seriously... get over it...<br />
<br />
Okay so now lets hear from folks who understand that it's a MOVIE.<br />
:As a movie, it's garbage. As entertainment, it's garbage. This movie isn't 'fun' unless you're retarded.<br />
::Does it make you feel good to insult people who might enjoy a movie you don't? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
::When you say garbage, do you mean "Plan 9 garbage", or "Uwe Boll garbage"?--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 22:28, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::In Uwe Boll's defense, Alone in the Dark had some pretty awesome firefights in it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:12, 5 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::: Legion, on the other hand, had no 'awesome firefights'. It suffered from many action movie cliches, including the lack of need to change mags. The firefights weren't exciting by any stretch; they were as boring as the rest of the movie. Not only that, but the movie was so cliched you could see events coming from miles away. Terrible, TERRIBLE movie. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 21:24, 5 February 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Legion&diff=229499Talk:Legion2010-01-28T13:03:11Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>This movie looks awesome-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:58, 22 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah it does --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I found it really funny how I noticed straightaway on the poster that the MP5K was actually an SP89.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
I think the angels have metal wings. Rex095<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ALL SCREENCAPS FROM ''LEGION-REDBAND TRAILER'' http://www.spike.com/blog/legion-red-band/85055'''<br />
<br />
<br />
Storyline I got to say looks original. Haven't seen another film like it. Cant wait for it --[[User:k9870|k9870]]<br />
<br />
'''G36's'''<br />
<br />
Arn't these actually just G36 airsoft replicas? I have one at home. You can see the ejecton ports are fake and meerley just cast in plastic. --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 01:17, 19 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I just saw this.....it was weird. The metal wings were badass though, and some of the movie was just funny. -k9870<br />
<br />
This movie isn't weird, it's crap. This movie was, in all fairness, absolutely terrible. There were plot holes big enough to fly a C130 through. The whole thing was just low-grade gun porn (oh man, they showcased guns that I've only seen in every movie with a gun in it. 1911? Check. M16? Check. MP5? Check. Glock? Check. Some sort of shotgun? Check.) stereotypical characters (WASP? Check. Rebellious daughter? Check. Black Man from the streets? Check. Religious Black Man? Check. Hillbillies? Check.), bad acting, and plotholes.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 06:54, 24 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Lowl.. Too rite, mate.<br />
<br />
<br />
:The gangsta has a M1911 and all the rednecks have Glocks? The director got his gun stereotypes mixed up<br />
<br />
::It' because Michael breaks into a gun store and takes lots of guns and when he arrives at Paradise Falls it is said that he gives the guys Glocks and MP5s... I haven't seen the film yet, but I've read the script. Can't wait to see this, inspite of the reviews... ;)<br />
<br />
<br />
From a religious standpoint... Lord, this movie sucked. First of all, the idea that God stopped forgiving people. Ok, the idea sucks, but I understand if you're not a Christian or familiar with the bible. The idea that God NEEDED something? He is GOD. He needs NOTHING. Even to a nonereligious person, the idea that a supreme, all powerful Being needed something is pretty... argh! And who the beep is this baby, anyway? The Second Coming? Messiah point-two? Why on Earth (forgive the pun) would God decide to exterminate humanity while this whole super baby deal was going on? I don't expect Hollywood to be reverent, I'm not that crazy, but do I expect them to at least get a feel for the God they're portraying. Whew. I'm done.<br />
<br />
::From a non-crazy standpoint... The idea of a god is ridiculous itself! :) LOL... This is just a brains-roll-out-fun-roll-in -type o' movie that's not to be taken seriously... get over it...<br />
<br />
Okay so now lets hear from folks who understand that it's a MOVIE.<br />
:As a movie, it's garbage. As entertainment, it's garbage. This movie isn't 'fun' unless you're retarded.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Zombieland&diff=228939Talk:Zombieland2010-01-26T20:06:43Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Poster error */</p>
<hr />
<div>: This movie looks promising-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 00:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
<br />
-woody's gun-<br />
Is likely a puma model 92 "bounty hunter" with a standard level installed. It is probably also in 45LC. This is backed up by 44-40 being a semi bottlenecked round, the ones in the movie all looked straight walled. <br />
::Good call, but unfortunately incorrect. Though very similar, the Puma has a longer barrel and longer stock. Tallahasse's gun is definitely a Mare's leg. I've carefully compared images of those guns and movie stills and it is not the Puma M-92 Bounty Hunter. But definitely a reasonable guess. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Poster error==<br />
:I think a double barreled lever gun would be pretty cool-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: It's only cool if it works. So how would a lever action double barreled shotgun work? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:37, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The same way Bob Barker hasn't turned into dust: magic-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 20:24, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
The rounds form the MP7 are meant for penetration of body armor. wouldn't that be ineffectual against zombies?<br />
<br />
:It would be like shooting a person in the head with an AP round-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:26, 3 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I figure that an MP7A1 might be advantageous in a situation such as a zombie outbreak. From what I can remember, the 4.6mm rounds tumble when entering the body, thus increasing the trauma delivered to tissue. Additionally, figure that the recoil of the MP7A1 would be soft compared to a number of other automatic weapons, which would enable more rapid yet aimed semi-automatic fire. the weight of the weapon in conjunction with the balance of the weapon allow it to be used in one hand, albeit with drastically reduced accuracy, but the option is there. The high-capacity magazine is light enough that you could carry a number of them. from what I gather, the weapon is very reliable, and as it is quite likely that production facilities would be abandoned, replacement parts would be limited, thus reliability would be a valued commodity. The weapon has enough accuracy and range to hit a pretty small target at about 200 meters. The optics could be replaced depending on the situation at hand, due to the rail on the weapon. the only downsides that i could think of would be that ammunition and magazines would be limited, given that the round is unique for the weapon at this time. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]<br />
<br />
:::good point<br />
<br />
::::incidentally, i am in the process of making an informal zombie survival guide that i have been working on for over a year now. it is at 20 pages, and still growing, with almost 200 individual items that i would like to obtain in the wasteland should i somehow survive. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]<br />
<br />
:::::Or you could just use a .22 and buy Max Brook's "The Zombie Survival Guide"-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 06:06, 3 October 2009<br />
::::::Or buy yourself a gun that doesn't require you to stand directly in front of a zombie, say a 9mm or something, and discount the Zombie Survival Guide's firearm section entirely (Which contradicts itself on multiple occasions). - Anonymous<br />
:::::::Hmm, depends on what kind of zombies you're dealing with. Since traditional zombies can only be killed by destruction of the brain, "stopping power" is rather irrelevant (all that's required is the necessary force to penetrate the skull and destroy the brain). The 'zombies' in Zombieland, on the other hand, are probably still alive, they're just mad cannibals because of the 'mutated mad cow disease' they're said to be infected with. If that's the case, they can probably be killed by the same wounds that would be fatal to normal humans (indeed, this seems to be the case) and so stopping power is still relevant.<br />
<br />
:::::::Also, while Max Brooks' novels are entertaining (I really liked ''World War Z'') I lost all respect for the advice on firearms in the ZSG when I read the passage that stated that the M16 is the worst assault rifle and the AK47 is the best. Okay, he didn't state that viewpoint as fact, but he went the weasel words route and wrote "many consider" that to be the case, which is almost as bad in my opinion, since anyone who is of that opinion is clearly ignorant. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 14:43, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Max Brooks knows jack shit about firearms and Military Equipment. Enough said.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Max Brooks knows jack shit about anything, really. You want a good zombie killing combo? USE WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE. Unless you have something retarded like a 20MM rifle.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:06, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Continuity error==<br />
I don't think that the two 1911s are a continuty error I think he just ran out of 9MM and had another back up pistol, Because it looked like he had more 1911 Magazines than Sig Sauer mags.<br />
::And you're basing this on what? The film never showed him with three guns. They only established him with two. If he did pull out a third handgun, it was not shown in the film. So that is purely a guess based on seeing more M1911 magazines than SIG ones, which he would need to have since the M1911 mags were single stack and the SIGs were double stack. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:30, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Good point but you have to remember he has to fire more 9mm rounds to do the job of a .45acp jk.<br />
<br />
I think that the Sig is a full sized p226<br />
<br />
==New images==<br />
Are any of these bootlegs? I expect an answer from those members who uploaded them. The DVD is not out yet so anything NOT from the trailer. If I don't get a confirmation that they are not from bootleg, and this includes bit torrent downloads, then they will be Deleted. Only caps from the authorized DVD are allowed. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:10, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I didn't upload them, but I know for a fact that the official DVD has not been released yet. It comes out 2/2/10 here in the US. That Norinco pick looks like it was played off a DVDrip/Torrent, and it needs to get the fuck outta here.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:02, 26 January 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Zombieland&diff=228938Talk:Zombieland2010-01-26T20:05:18Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* New images */</p>
<hr />
<div>: This movie looks promising-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 00:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
<br />
-woody's gun-<br />
Is likely a puma model 92 "bounty hunter" with a standard level installed. It is probably also in 45LC. This is backed up by 44-40 being a semi bottlenecked round, the ones in the movie all looked straight walled. <br />
::Good call, but unfortunately incorrect. Though very similar, the Puma has a longer barrel and longer stock. Tallahasse's gun is definitely a Mare's leg. I've carefully compared images of those guns and movie stills and it is not the Puma M-92 Bounty Hunter. But definitely a reasonable guess. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Poster error==<br />
:I think a double barreled lever gun would be pretty cool-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: It's only cool if it works. So how would a lever action double barreled shotgun work? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:37, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The same way Bob Barker hasn't turned into dust: magic-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 20:24, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
The rounds form the MP7 are meant for penetration of body armor. wouldn't that be ineffectual against zombies?<br />
<br />
:It would be like shooting a person in the head with an AP round-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:26, 3 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I figure that an MP7A1 might be advantageous in a situation such as a zombie outbreak. From what I can remember, the 4.6mm rounds tumble when entering the body, thus increasing the trauma delivered to tissue. Additionally, figure that the recoil of the MP7A1 would be soft compared to a number of other automatic weapons, which would enable more rapid yet aimed semi-automatic fire. the weight of the weapon in conjunction with the balance of the weapon allow it to be used in one hand, albeit with drastically reduced accuracy, but the option is there. The high-capacity magazine is light enough that you could carry a number of them. from what I gather, the weapon is very reliable, and as it is quite likely that production facilities would be abandoned, replacement parts would be limited, thus reliability would be a valued commodity. The weapon has enough accuracy and range to hit a pretty small target at about 200 meters. The optics could be replaced depending on the situation at hand, due to the rail on the weapon. the only downsides that i could think of would be that ammunition and magazines would be limited, given that the round is unique for the weapon at this time. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]<br />
<br />
:::good point<br />
<br />
::::incidentally, i am in the process of making an informal zombie survival guide that i have been working on for over a year now. it is at 20 pages, and still growing, with almost 200 individual items that i would like to obtain in the wasteland should i somehow survive. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]<br />
<br />
:::::Or you could just use a .22 and buy Max Brook's "The Zombie Survival Guide"-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 06:06, 3 October 2009<br />
::::::Or buy yourself a gun that doesn't require you to stand directly in front of a zombie, say a 9mm or something, and discount the Zombie Survival Guide's firearm section entirely (Which contradicts itself on multiple occasions). - Anonymous<br />
:::::::Hmm, depends on what kind of zombies you're dealing with. Since traditional zombies can only be killed by destruction of the brain, "stopping power" is rather irrelevant (all that's required is the necessary force to penetrate the skull and destroy the brain). The 'zombies' in Zombieland, on the other hand, are probably still alive, they're just mad cannibals because of the 'mutated mad cow disease' they're said to be infected with. If that's the case, they can probably be killed by the same wounds that would be fatal to normal humans (indeed, this seems to be the case) and so stopping power is still relevant.<br />
<br />
:::::::Also, while Max Brooks' novels are entertaining (I really liked ''World War Z'') I lost all respect for the advice on firearms in the ZSG when I read the passage that stated that the M16 is the worst assault rifle and the AK47 is the best. Okay, he didn't state that viewpoint as fact, but he went the weasel words route and wrote "many consider" that to be the case, which is almost as bad in my opinion, since anyone who is of that opinion is clearly ignorant. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 14:43, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Max Brooks knows jack shit about firearms and Military Equipment. Enough said.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Continuity error==<br />
I don't think that the two 1911s are a continuty error I think he just ran out of 9MM and had another back up pistol, Because it looked like he had more 1911 Magazines than Sig Sauer mags.<br />
::And you're basing this on what? The film never showed him with three guns. They only established him with two. If he did pull out a third handgun, it was not shown in the film. So that is purely a guess based on seeing more M1911 magazines than SIG ones, which he would need to have since the M1911 mags were single stack and the SIGs were double stack. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:30, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Good point but you have to remember he has to fire more 9mm rounds to do the job of a .45acp jk.<br />
<br />
I think that the Sig is a full sized p226<br />
<br />
==New images==<br />
Are any of these bootlegs? I expect an answer from those members who uploaded them. The DVD is not out yet so anything NOT from the trailer. If I don't get a confirmation that they are not from bootleg, and this includes bit torrent downloads, then they will be Deleted. Only caps from the authorized DVD are allowed. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:10, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I didn't upload them, but I know for a fact that the official DVD has not been released yet. It comes out 2/2/10 here in the US. That Norinco pick looks like it was played off a DVDrip/Torrent, and it needs to get the fuck outta here.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:02, 26 January 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Zombieland&diff=228937Talk:Zombieland2010-01-26T20:03:15Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* New images */</p>
<hr />
<div>: This movie looks promising-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 00:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
<br />
-woody's gun-<br />
Is likely a puma model 92 "bounty hunter" with a standard level installed. It is probably also in 45LC. This is backed up by 44-40 being a semi bottlenecked round, the ones in the movie all looked straight walled. <br />
::Good call, but unfortunately incorrect. Though very similar, the Puma has a longer barrel and longer stock. Tallahasse's gun is definitely a Mare's leg. I've carefully compared images of those guns and movie stills and it is not the Puma M-92 Bounty Hunter. But definitely a reasonable guess. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Poster error==<br />
:I think a double barreled lever gun would be pretty cool-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: It's only cool if it works. So how would a lever action double barreled shotgun work? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:37, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The same way Bob Barker hasn't turned into dust: magic-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 20:24, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
The rounds form the MP7 are meant for penetration of body armor. wouldn't that be ineffectual against zombies?<br />
<br />
:It would be like shooting a person in the head with an AP round-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:26, 3 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I figure that an MP7A1 might be advantageous in a situation such as a zombie outbreak. From what I can remember, the 4.6mm rounds tumble when entering the body, thus increasing the trauma delivered to tissue. Additionally, figure that the recoil of the MP7A1 would be soft compared to a number of other automatic weapons, which would enable more rapid yet aimed semi-automatic fire. the weight of the weapon in conjunction with the balance of the weapon allow it to be used in one hand, albeit with drastically reduced accuracy, but the option is there. The high-capacity magazine is light enough that you could carry a number of them. from what I gather, the weapon is very reliable, and as it is quite likely that production facilities would be abandoned, replacement parts would be limited, thus reliability would be a valued commodity. The weapon has enough accuracy and range to hit a pretty small target at about 200 meters. The optics could be replaced depending on the situation at hand, due to the rail on the weapon. the only downsides that i could think of would be that ammunition and magazines would be limited, given that the round is unique for the weapon at this time. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]<br />
<br />
:::good point<br />
<br />
::::incidentally, i am in the process of making an informal zombie survival guide that i have been working on for over a year now. it is at 20 pages, and still growing, with almost 200 individual items that i would like to obtain in the wasteland should i somehow survive. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]<br />
<br />
:::::Or you could just use a .22 and buy Max Brook's "The Zombie Survival Guide"-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 06:06, 3 October 2009<br />
::::::Or buy yourself a gun that doesn't require you to stand directly in front of a zombie, say a 9mm or something, and discount the Zombie Survival Guide's firearm section entirely (Which contradicts itself on multiple occasions). - Anonymous<br />
:::::::Hmm, depends on what kind of zombies you're dealing with. Since traditional zombies can only be killed by destruction of the brain, "stopping power" is rather irrelevant (all that's required is the necessary force to penetrate the skull and destroy the brain). The 'zombies' in Zombieland, on the other hand, are probably still alive, they're just mad cannibals because of the 'mutated mad cow disease' they're said to be infected with. If that's the case, they can probably be killed by the same wounds that would be fatal to normal humans (indeed, this seems to be the case) and so stopping power is still relevant.<br />
<br />
:::::::Also, while Max Brooks' novels are entertaining (I really liked ''World War Z'') I lost all respect for the advice on firearms in the ZSG when I read the passage that stated that the M16 is the worst assault rifle and the AK47 is the best. Okay, he didn't state that viewpoint as fact, but he went the weasel words route and wrote "many consider" that to be the case, which is almost as bad in my opinion, since anyone who is of that opinion is clearly ignorant. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 14:43, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Max Brooks knows jack shit about firearms and Military Equipment. Enough said.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Continuity error==<br />
I don't think that the two 1911s are a continuty error I think he just ran out of 9MM and had another back up pistol, Because it looked like he had more 1911 Magazines than Sig Sauer mags.<br />
::And you're basing this on what? The film never showed him with three guns. They only established him with two. If he did pull out a third handgun, it was not shown in the film. So that is purely a guess based on seeing more M1911 magazines than SIG ones, which he would need to have since the M1911 mags were single stack and the SIGs were double stack. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:30, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Good point but you have to remember he has to fire more 9mm rounds to do the job of a .45acp jk.<br />
<br />
I think that the Sig is a full sized p226<br />
<br />
==New images==<br />
Are any of these bootlegs? I expect an answer from those members who uploaded them. The DVD is not out yet so anything NOT from the trailer. If I don't get a confirmation that they are not from bootleg, and this includes bit torrent downloads, then they will be Deleted. Only caps from the authorized DVD are allowed. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:10, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I didn't upload them, but I know for a fact that the official DVD has not been released yet. It comes out 2/2/10 here in the US.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:02, 26 January 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Zombieland&diff=228936Talk:Zombieland2010-01-26T20:02:57Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* New images */</p>
<hr />
<div>: This movie looks promising-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 00:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
<br />
-woody's gun-<br />
Is likely a puma model 92 "bounty hunter" with a standard level installed. It is probably also in 45LC. This is backed up by 44-40 being a semi bottlenecked round, the ones in the movie all looked straight walled. <br />
::Good call, but unfortunately incorrect. Though very similar, the Puma has a longer barrel and longer stock. Tallahasse's gun is definitely a Mare's leg. I've carefully compared images of those guns and movie stills and it is not the Puma M-92 Bounty Hunter. But definitely a reasonable guess. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Poster error==<br />
:I think a double barreled lever gun would be pretty cool-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: It's only cool if it works. So how would a lever action double barreled shotgun work? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:37, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The same way Bob Barker hasn't turned into dust: magic-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 20:24, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
The rounds form the MP7 are meant for penetration of body armor. wouldn't that be ineffectual against zombies?<br />
<br />
:It would be like shooting a person in the head with an AP round-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:26, 3 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I figure that an MP7A1 might be advantageous in a situation such as a zombie outbreak. From what I can remember, the 4.6mm rounds tumble when entering the body, thus increasing the trauma delivered to tissue. Additionally, figure that the recoil of the MP7A1 would be soft compared to a number of other automatic weapons, which would enable more rapid yet aimed semi-automatic fire. the weight of the weapon in conjunction with the balance of the weapon allow it to be used in one hand, albeit with drastically reduced accuracy, but the option is there. The high-capacity magazine is light enough that you could carry a number of them. from what I gather, the weapon is very reliable, and as it is quite likely that production facilities would be abandoned, replacement parts would be limited, thus reliability would be a valued commodity. The weapon has enough accuracy and range to hit a pretty small target at about 200 meters. The optics could be replaced depending on the situation at hand, due to the rail on the weapon. the only downsides that i could think of would be that ammunition and magazines would be limited, given that the round is unique for the weapon at this time. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]<br />
<br />
:::good point<br />
<br />
::::incidentally, i am in the process of making an informal zombie survival guide that i have been working on for over a year now. it is at 20 pages, and still growing, with almost 200 individual items that i would like to obtain in the wasteland should i somehow survive. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]<br />
<br />
:::::Or you could just use a .22 and buy Max Brook's "The Zombie Survival Guide"-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 06:06, 3 October 2009<br />
::::::Or buy yourself a gun that doesn't require you to stand directly in front of a zombie, say a 9mm or something, and discount the Zombie Survival Guide's firearm section entirely (Which contradicts itself on multiple occasions). - Anonymous<br />
:::::::Hmm, depends on what kind of zombies you're dealing with. Since traditional zombies can only be killed by destruction of the brain, "stopping power" is rather irrelevant (all that's required is the necessary force to penetrate the skull and destroy the brain). The 'zombies' in Zombieland, on the other hand, are probably still alive, they're just mad cannibals because of the 'mutated mad cow disease' they're said to be infected with. If that's the case, they can probably be killed by the same wounds that would be fatal to normal humans (indeed, this seems to be the case) and so stopping power is still relevant.<br />
<br />
:::::::Also, while Max Brooks' novels are entertaining (I really liked ''World War Z'') I lost all respect for the advice on firearms in the ZSG when I read the passage that stated that the M16 is the worst assault rifle and the AK47 is the best. Okay, he didn't state that viewpoint as fact, but he went the weasel words route and wrote "many consider" that to be the case, which is almost as bad in my opinion, since anyone who is of that opinion is clearly ignorant. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 14:43, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Max Brooks knows jack shit about firearms and Military Equipment. Enough said.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Continuity error==<br />
I don't think that the two 1911s are a continuty error I think he just ran out of 9MM and had another back up pistol, Because it looked like he had more 1911 Magazines than Sig Sauer mags.<br />
::And you're basing this on what? The film never showed him with three guns. They only established him with two. If he did pull out a third handgun, it was not shown in the film. So that is purely a guess based on seeing more M1911 magazines than SIG ones, which he would need to have since the M1911 mags were single stack and the SIGs were double stack. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:30, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Good point but you have to remember he has to fire more 9mm rounds to do the job of a .45acp jk.<br />
<br />
I think that the Sig is a full sized p226<br />
<br />
==New images==<br />
Are any of these bootlegs? I expect an answer from those members who uploaded them. The DVD is not out yet so anything NOT from the trailer. If I don't get a confirmation that they are not from bootleg, and this includes bit torrent downloads, then they will be Deleted. Only caps from the authorized DVD are allowed. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:10, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
I didn't upload them, but I know for a fact that the official DVD has not been released yet. It comes out 2/2/10 here in the US.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:02, 26 January 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Legion&diff=228380Talk:Legion2010-01-24T06:54:39Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>This movie looks awesome-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:58, 22 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah it does --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I found it really funny how I noticed straightaway on the poster that the MP5K was actually an SP89.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
I think the angels have metal wings. Rex095<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ALL SCREENCAPS FROM ''LEGION-REDBAND TRAILER'' http://www.spike.com/blog/legion-red-band/85055'''<br />
<br />
<br />
Storyline I got to say looks original. Haven't seen another film like it. Cant wait for it --[[User:k9870|k9870]]<br />
<br />
'''G36's'''<br />
<br />
Arn't these actually just G36 airsoft replicas? I have one at home. You can see the ejecton ports are fake and meerley just cast in plastic. --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 01:17, 19 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I just saw this.....it was weird. The metal wings were badass though, and some of the movie was just funny. -k9870<br />
<br />
This movie isn't weird, it's crap. This movie was, in all fairness, absolutely terrible. There were plot holes big enough to fly a C130 through. The whole thing was just low-grade gun porn (oh man, they showcased guns that I've only seen in every movie with a gun in it. 1911? Check. M16? Check. MP5? Check. Glock? Check. Some sort of shotgun? Check.) stereotypical characters (WASP? Check. Rebellious daughter? Check. Black Man from the streets? Check. Religious Black Man? Check. Hillbillies? Check.), bad acting, and plotholes.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 06:54, 24 January 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Legion&diff=228379Talk:Legion2010-01-24T06:53:58Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>This movie looks awesome-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:58, 22 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah it does --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I found it really funny how I noticed straightaway on the poster that the MP5K was actually an SP89.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
I think the angels have metal wings. Rex095<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ALL SCREENCAPS FROM ''LEGION-REDBAND TRAILER'' http://www.spike.com/blog/legion-red-band/85055'''<br />
<br />
<br />
Storyline I got to say looks original. Haven't seen another film like it. Cant wait for it --[[User:k9870|k9870]]<br />
<br />
'''G36's'''<br />
<br />
Arn't these actually just G36 airsoft replicas? I have one at home. You can see the ejecton ports are fake and meerley just cast in plastic. --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 01:17, 19 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I just saw this.....it was weird. The metal wings were badass though, and some of the movie was just funny. -k9870<br />
<br />
This movie isn't weird, it's crap. This movie was, in all fairness, absolutely terrible. There were plot holes big enough to fly a C130 through. The whole thing was just low-grade gun porn (oh man, they showcased guns that I've only seen in every movie with a gun in it. 1911? Check. M16? Check. MP5? Check. Glock? Check. Some sort of shotgun? Check.) stereotypical characters (WASP? Check. Rebellious daughter? Check. Black Man from the streets? Check. Religious Black Man? Check. Hillbillies? Check.), bad acting, and plotholes.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:The_Book_of_Eli&diff=226629Talk:The Book of Eli2010-01-18T14:42:41Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* 100 year old guns */</p>
<hr />
<div>==100 year old guns==<br />
: After a 100 years of use, all of those guns would have smooth bores-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 20:37, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Okay. That comment makes no sense. We're not talking constant use here. If that were the case, all my Mosin Nagant M1891s or Gewehr 98s would be smooth bore muskets now would they? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:26, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Hope they keep up on maintainance. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few dozen original production AK-47's being used currently, so at the very least, it's conceivable for there to be AK's/Type 56's functioning after a century of use. I don't know about the HK45 though. I doubt its as rugged as the Kalashnikov. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]<br />
<br />
:I'm talking about the gun being used every goddamn day for a hundred years, not being used for a few years then put in a warehouse for the better part of a century or sitting in somebodies collection, only being shot every once in a while. If it were used the way I am talking about, the gun would have exceeded it's service life a couple dozen times-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 23:07, 22 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::How many guns do you know of that were used every '''"''goddamn''"''' day for a 100 years? That's also a ridiculous scenario. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:35, 22 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Maybe I'm reading into this wrong, while the film takes place 100 years in the future. The war happened "30 winters ago". So the guns may only be 30 years old, unless I'm reading into the winters thing wrong. One thing I find interesting while Eli's guns are beat to shit. The others don't seem to be, except for the Hi-Power which is probably one of the oldest guns in the movie. Looks like a kick ass film. Of course most of Denzel's films usually do. -[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 04:15, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:That's assuming that the apocalyptic war that killed most of the world's population takes place ... oh... right now! In the trailer he says it's been 29 years since the end of the war that wiped out most of the people on earth. So the war ends this week or month? When would a future war happen? 5 years from now? 20 years from now? How long would the war last? One week? or ten years? or more? Do you write stories where the apocalypse happens right now? Since people seem to be fixating on that statement, I'll change it to "really old". This was from 'oral accounts' from people who worked on the film. Who knows? They may be wrong. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As pointed out, you could assume even if the gun is really old, constant maintenance will keep it going. Though even after a hundred years of use, I'm sure the barrel or at least some of the small parts would need changing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:58, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I have plenty of 100 year old guns which are just fine and I could take out in the battlefield right now. Sidearms also have holster wear far more than barrel wear. I know of a cop whose duty sidearm was only fired during qualification, but he never (fortunately) fired it in anger during his entire 35 year career, but the gun had a lot of holster wear from pulling it in and out during wear. No one FIRES A GUN for 100 years straight. I am looking at a pristine Turkish Mauser from 1909. It is 100 years old. It looks like it was made yesterday. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:18, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
You do need to take into consideration that this is after 100 years of lawlessness in the world, Road Warriors kind of life style. A gun would be used more often in that kind of world than today's world. Well in war zones today, there might be wide uses of firearms. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:28, 5 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It would be like the Ak´s in the middle east or Chechenya, being repaired with everything you can find. Also, look at this picture:<br />
[http://englishrussia.com/images/chechen_weapons/6.jpg: Guerrilla Ak]<br />
<br />
This is also assuming that they AMMUNITION to use with the guns to shoot every day with.<br />
<br />
: It wouldn't be surprising that even in the future post end of the world kind of place that anyone can make bullets by reusing brass casings and with the right equipment and gunpowder. Don't know about shotgun shells though. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
:: Their were constant references to the scarcity of ammunition, even to the point where one character continued threatening Eli based on their firmly held belief that, like other wanderers, the guns were empty, just for show. Also, some guns keep well forever. Especially when they're kept somewhere and cared for. Like 1911's, for example.<br />
<br />
I read the film is set in 2043, so the guns shouldn't be in too bad of a condition. --[[User:TheManWithNoName|TheManWithNoName]] 20:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The movie may be set 100 years into the future, but in the trailer Denzels voice over clearly states that "They say the war tore a hole in the sky. That was 30 years ago. I have been walking ever since." So, whenever the film is set, it is only 30 years since the world got effed.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 20:52, 8 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I just saw this movie yesterday. I will have to say it was a pretty good film with some kick ass sword fighting and shootout scenes from Denzel. A very good and unique storyline also.- ArmoredMason619<br />
<br />
== Elderly couple ==<br />
Saw the film last night. The old couple (Martha and George?) use an MP5 and M4 with a foregrip and some kind of scope. No idea what else is in their chest of weapons. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 23:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I watched it earlier today, they give meg from family guy a H&K MP7 from the sofa, and michael gambon (the old guy) has a pump action shotgun too, possibly a mariner, i wasnt payin too much attention at the time, fucking chatty bastard kids in the row behind. --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:32, 18 January 2010 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Uncharted_2:_Among_Thieves&diff=219868Uncharted 2: Among Thieves2009-12-28T03:57:41Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Luger P08 */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''The following weapons appear in the 2009 sequel to [[Uncharted: Drake's Fortune]]:'''<br />
<br />
[[Image:Uncharted_2_cover.jpg|290px|thumb|right|]]<br />
<br />
== GAU – 19 ==<br />
A portable minigun often carried by heavily armored mercenaries employed by Lazaervic.<br />
<br />
== Beretta 92FS Inox ==<br />
A 9mm Beretta 92FS Inox is one of the side-arms, named "92FS" in the game. It is used by Elena, Drake, and is also the sidearm for Zoran Lazarevic.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]<br />
<br />
== Kalashnikov AKM ==<br />
Used by Lazarevic's merecenaries early in the game. Nathan also favors it, and it is named "AK-47" in the game. During the assault on the mountain village, several villagers also use these, presumably obtained from fallen enemies.<br />
<br />
[[Image:AK-47.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]<br />
<br />
== FN FAL ==<br />
The FN FAL can be seen in the hands of the mercenaries and Nathan, it is named "FAL" in the game. The FAL fires in three round bursts and has a red dot sight that somehow zooms in slightly.<br />
<br />
[[Image:FN FAL 50 00.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]<br />
<br />
== Smith & Wesson Model 29 Revolver ==<br />
Called "Wess .44," it is once again Sully's preferred sidearm. Although some believe it to be overly powerful, sometimes killing enemies in a single shot and flipping them, it's going to hurt pretty damn much if you are shot with a .44 in the chest. It also has huge accuracy at range.<br />
<br />
[[Image:SW-629.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]<br />
<br />
== Colt Defender ==<br />
Named ".45 Defender" he carries it while in Borneo, early in the game. The gun's slide marks it as a Chinese pistol and calls it a "Type 85." (as seen in the strategy guide). Chloe Frazier carries a custom made model that has a flaming skull on the slide that is painted to appear that the bullet is coming out of the skull's mouth.<br />
<br />
looks to me like a Dectonics Combat Master<br />
<br />
==Desert Eagle==<br />
Called the "Desert 5" in game, it is Harry Flynn's preferred sidearm, and is sometimes seen equipped with a laser sight and used by mercenaries as a sniper like weapon.<br />
<br />
[[Image:DesertEagle50AE.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]<br />
<br />
== SVD Dragunov ==<br />
Named "Dragon Sniper", it's the only sniper rifle in the game. Weirdly portrayed as having a laser sight when used by enemies, but when obtained by Nate no laser sight is attached and when aimed, no laser can be seen.<br />
<br />
[[Image:SVD_Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]<br />
<br />
== Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun ==<br />
Seen carried by Lazervic's men, named "Moss-12" ingame. It appears in the early stages of the game before being replaced by the SPAS-12. The like SPAS, the barrel appears to be stainless steel.<br />
<br />
[[Image:MossbergCompactCruiser.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]<br />
<br />
==Franchi SPAS-12==<br />
Called the "SAS-12" in game. Carried by Lazarevic's mercenaries. For some reason, Nate works the pump at incredible speed, while Lazarevic's men seem to pump it at a normal rate. The barrel area appears to be polished to a silver coloring.<br />
<br />
[[Image::Franchi-SPAS12.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]<br />
<br />
== Colt M4 ==<br />
<br />
Used later in the game by Lazarevic's men, and is a common weapon for his forces.<br />
[[Image:ColtM4_FirstVersion.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]<br />
<br />
== Micro Uzi ==<br />
Called "Micro 9mm" ingame, it is used in place of a pistol. Enemies equipped with riot shields will often use this weapon, firing it one handed while staying in cover behind the shield.<br />
<br />
[[Image:MicroUziPistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]<br />
<br />
== RPG 7 ==<br />
Used by Lazarevic's men. Nate procures these and uses them to attempt to shoot down an enemy HIND chopper, and later to destroy a tank.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]<br />
<br />
== Luger P08 ==<br />
Picked up from dead Nazi in ice caves. Somehow these Luger work perfectly after 70 years in the snow, even though they were known to be unreliable even when in much nicer conditions. But nobody's complaining, right? It is also seen in Shambala, where Chloe finds one on the body of dead explorers, who apparently have strange choices in weapons. They appear to carry Lugers along with Beretta Inox's and AKs, leaving their nationality and the time period they arrived rather convoluted.<br />
<br />
I was thinking the same thing. If there were Beretta Inox's why take the luger at all?<br />
<br />
There is always the possibility that the group in Shambala where that Lugar was found, just before the player fights a few of the guardians and a handful of mercenaries on a falling platform where only the three main characters survive. The lugar was likely there before the landing and the other guns came from Lazarovich's men. Still, why would Chloe take the lugar if that was the case?<br />
<br />
That's doubtful, seeing as Lazarevic and his men had just arrived and Chloe stated that they were headed in a totally different direction. This would mean that the bodies from the platform were thrown an absurd distance, and doesn't explain the bodies that are decayed or how the Luger got there in the first place.<br />
<br />
Maybe some later explorers picked up the Lugers. I mean, what would you do if you were out exploring and came across an old Luger in working conidition? You know, deep down inside, that you'd pick that up and carry it with you as long as you could. Maybe a few of them met their demise after stumbling upon a few choice Lugers.<br />
<br />
Maybe there was another expedition from a later date that also met its demise in that room?<br />
[[Image:LugerP08Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]<br />
<br />
== M32 Grenade Launcher ==<br />
<br />
Commonly used by gas-mask wearing enemies, the grenades leave a plume of smoke behind them when fired. Nate uses this weapon to shoot down a HIND in Nepal.<br />
<br />
== MP40 ==<br />
Confirmed available in the Ice Cave and Sewage areas and is named as the MP40. However, the MP40s still manage to work after being left in the sewers and submerged in snow for 70 years. But hey, no game's absolutely perfect when it come's to realism.<br />
<br />
[[Image:MGCMP40.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]<br />
<br />
==Double Barrel==<br />
Lazarovich uses a double barreled shotgun as his weapon of choice.<br />
<br />
I would almost want to say that it's not a shotgun, but a double barreled rifle.<br />
I say that due to it's actual barrel size looks like it could fire a .500 nitro round<br />
Plus, Lazarovich seems like the kind of guy who'd hunt big game and is tough enough to saw off the barrels and stock.<br />
<br />
No, it's a shotgun. He wears shotgun shells on his vest and during the last level he fires it at you alot and you can see it pepper the ground around you. Likely a 10 guage though. [[Humanzie3]]<br />
<br />
== Pistole Shotgun Pistol ==<br />
there is a weapon seen available in the PAX train gameplay trailer named "Pistole", no idea though<br />
here is an image of it: http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/im-Dark/Untitled.jpg. It fires like a shotgun and holds two shells. It has a strange mechanism to open the barrels. they twist one way to open. Well okay, maybe it's not that strange...<br />
:This appears to me to be an attempt at the Soviet SPP-1 underwater pistol, a design which used modified 7.62x39mm rifle cartridges to fire fin-stabilized 4.5mm darts both above and below water. It has four barrels and hold four rounds, one in each barrel. The barrels are set side-by-side, so it would only appear to be two barrels. This is only my opinion, though in the shot porvided it does appear to be encountered on a dock. What does someone else think? [SAWGunner89] 20:16, 4 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
[[Category:Video Game]]<br />
<br />
Its almost like a sawed off over and under shotgun in gameplay<br />
<br />
According to the strategy guide, this weapon is called the Pistole Shotgun Pistol. It has the same firepower as a shotgun but an incredibly long reload time and it is not recommended for going up against multiple opponents.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_2&diff=217945Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 22009-12-22T21:19:08Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Combat Knife */</p>
<hr />
<div>Note: This talk page is for discussion related to the '''article'''. Do not use it to argue about how H&K pwnz Colt, it is safe to say nobody cares.<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
==Weapon on newspaper==<br />
Hey for anyone who has played the game,do you think the rifle from the newspaper they showed when talking about Makarov should be included?<br />
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:I personally wouldn't have any issue with it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:08, 18 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Suggestions==<br />
I think the page needs the F2000 and TAR-21 with their special sights. Also, if anyone is looking for a screen of the M14 EBR with nothing attached, there's one in the spec ops mission where you breach the gulag wall. Oh, and we need the GP-25 included. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 19:40, 28 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:The TAR-21 on the page ''already'' has a MARS sight on it. And the F2000 on the page is the same version used in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:11, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::There are no in-game screens of the MARS sight and the F2000's standard scope is in the game as the RDS in multiplayer, or "scoped" in singleplayer.<br />
<br />
==winchester 1887 loading animation==<br />
<br />
Is it supposed to load through reciever like that?<br />
\<br />
:Yes -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
::Sort of. The animation shows the rounds being placed in the upper tube (the barrel) rather than the lower tube (the magazine). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
It is wierd, but 1887's do load that way.<br />
When you pull the cocking lever down the top of the breech kind of rolls back and opens. <br />
The shells slip into the breech, past the chamber and down into the tube magazine below the barrel. <br />
They're slow and a little clumsy to reload IRL. You have to push the shell down into the magazine tube past the stop with your thumb.<br />
You can get a close look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE9WD9Fihks<br />
<br />
<br />
:::This one looks like the cowboy action shooter style thats made to quickly load 2 shots, usually custom jobs but I believe Legacy Arms -> Puma Arms is currently selling one. Since in cowboy action shooting you can only have a maximum of 2 rounds in a shotgun. [[Special:Contributions/24.177.167.87|24.177.167.87]]Pawnstar<br />
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== Price's 1911 ==<br />
Actually its in the game it can be picked up and used in the museum, don't know about MP though.<br />
<br />
*It's not featured in MP, it's exclusive to the single player level Museum, though I have heard you can find it during an early mission, much in the same way as to how the desert eagle in MW was found on Crew Expendable (the only one in the entire SP campaign btw). Apparently on one of the loading screens, it details the weapon as a GI 1911 (unsure of the manufactuer) compared to what it was in Modern Warfare, a Springfield Armoury 1911 Professional model. [[Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
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On one of the loading scenes I think it said it was a colt.<br />
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The one used by price is a springer pro, colt's just a more recognizable name to put in loading screens.<br />
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Yeah, most definitely NOT a Colt. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M93R ==<br />
There is a confirmation of the M93R machine pistol to be unlocked in MW2 online as confirmed in this video at the bottom of this page<br />
<br />
http://modernwarfare247.com/news/multiplayer-unlocks - Madax XX<br />
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CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO ADD PICTURES ONTO A PAGE ?????????????<br />
<br />
== Who saw this video, 92, FS or SB? ==<br />
The video with the Beretta M9, Ive not seen, Is it a 92 FS or SB?, i mean this isn't my site but still putting M9 just make's it as noobs are running the place, lol sorry, so who has the link to the video?<br />
*It is impossible to understand it from video. The only place this pistol appears is shown on the screenshot, the trigger guard is not seen, so i decided to discribe it as military modification, M9. I don't think, that it is a big problem for you to write what is this pistol realy is, whan we will have a better view.<br />
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Didn't mean to offended you, it's just most people come to this site to get correct info on weapons, but i suppose putting M9 isn't that bad considering that its the correct name, i just feel its lack of info.<br />
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Its the 92SB again, you can tell on its Create-A-Class picture<br />
<br />
== Airsoft ==<br />
I like airsoft as much as the next guy, but we already have pictures of ''real'' M4A1s and MP5Ks on the site, so no need to replace them with pics of airsoft replicas. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, but the "real" M4A1s and MP5Ks in the game don't look like those pictures; for the sake of identification, wouldn't it just be simpler to use images that at least look like the weapons from the game, whether they're real or not? Besides, there are plenty of other pages that use airsoft images, so why should this one be an exception?<br />
:Biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of. As you can see on the [[M16 rifle series|M16]] and [[Heckler & Koch MP5|MP5]] pages, we have plenty of pictures of the real things, so no need to add airsoft replicas to the page instead. Whether or not they're equipped with a specific rail system or not is moot, since the rail systems in question are pictured beneath the weapons and the addition of them ''on'' the weapons doesn't change anything. An M4 is still an M4 and an MP5K is still an MP5K. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There has always been guns we see in movies that have been customized and don't look like the stock photos of the gun unmodded. It's best to have a picture of the real thing than a fake that LOOKS like the one used in the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Then shouldn't all the other airsoft pictures (such as the Custom 1911 seen on the MGS4 page and the Cutlass on the Black Lagoon page, and even the Springfield Armory M1911 on CoD4's and MW2's page) be replaced with stock pictures? If you're gonna insist on this, you might as well go all the way.<br />
::As I've already pointed out, '''biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of'''. So those images are there '''because we don't have pics of the real things'''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
For the record, I'm in favor of pictures of the weapons modded or detailed as they are seen in the movie or game. Chances are the link takes you to the base page for them anyway, so you can see a picture of the real deal. Someone might be looking for a picture of the gun that is identical to how it is in the film or game. Whether it's airsoft or not to me seems moot as long as it is the weapon in question. Of course, no orange tips, please. -- ZG<br />
:The problem I have with all Airsoft guns is that they all scream "FAKE!" to those of us who spend alot of time around the real thing. Now as placeholders until we get a real weapon image I don't mind as it's a placeholder. Useing an airsoft gun insted of a real firearm that we have an image of that I just don't like. We do get the occational screem used weapon here and even when those have been beat to hell they are much better than the most realistic airsoft gun.--[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:48, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Replaced the airsoft M4A1 with the pic of a real one yet again. It doesn't matter whether it looks exactly like it does in-game or not. An M4A1 is an M4A1, regardless of what it looks like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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But if you could find a picture of what it looks like exactly in the game, wouldn't you use it? -- ZG<br />
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:The inclusion of a few tacticool accessories is not enough of a reason to waste server space on even more photos of a weapon we already have a number of photos of. For the third time, an M4A1 is an M4A1 regardless of what kind of rail system and whatnot is on it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I (not that it matters) am perfectly fine with pictures of the real deal and I love the effort that's gone into posting such great screenshots. I just hope the trend keeps with noting what particular accessories are present. I'm one of those douchebags that sees guns in the movies and thinks "Golly! I want mine to look just like that!" In any case, I love the site and it hasn't let me down yet. -- ZG<br />
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:Nothing at all wrong with noting what kind of accessories are used and by no means does it make you (or anyone else) a douchebag. I mean, flashlights, IR and visible lasers, optics... all that stuff is awesome. I just think it's unnecessary (as well as a waste of server space) to have multiple pics of one weapon customized in multiple different ways each for a few specific pages when one pic of the weapon in its standard configuration can be used on all pages, with minor differences noted in the descriptory paragraph. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I agree. I'm all for the efficient use of resources and I come here for info and screenshots anyway. I wasn't necessarily against airsoft pictures but I do see it a different way now. In the spirit of full disclosure, however, I really am quite a douchebag. -- ZG<br />
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:Lol XD Well, they ''do'' say honesty is golden... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Planned Weapons==<br />
Where did the informatio for most of these planned weapons come from??<br />
:No idea, and no one has posted any sources, and there's no way to edit it now. Maybe if another multiplayer video shows up, someone with some authority will notice them and can remove them. I mean, really, the XM8? COD4 never had it and that came out when it was still showing up in every "realistic" FPS.--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::IMHO, the XM8 is way overused in video games today. I'm glad IW shied away from it in favor of weapons like the ACR/Masada, that actually got beyond ''prototype'' stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
the acr isnt past prototype stage<br />
:::No, it just isn't widely available yet, but it ''is'' beyond prototype stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:53, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The ACR is actually being produced by both Bushmaster and Remington. It's already being marketed and available to purchase [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1887==<br />
Is the Winchester 1887 actually confirmed for the game? If it is, you can pretty much create a T2 class with that shotgun, the thumper, juggernaut, stopping power and something else that suits Arnie:P - Madax XXI 12:28<br />
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:Yup, it's in there. I'm totally gonna have a Terminator 2 online kit. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::It's definetely confirmed now, and with the big cocking loop and sawnoff stock and barrel too, only a hint of Terminator 2 fanboyism from IW there.... Can't wait to try it though. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I found it in campaign a minute ago and it really sucks-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:41, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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^^^I think it's pretty good, I'm stoked to get it online.<br />
<br />
::Same here, I heard it has fairly good range and damaged when stacked up to the other shotguns, it just has a slower ROF, due to the lever action. you can dual wield them though, which says something. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:It's one of the only shotguns with the furthest range out of the lot in MP, this and steady aim and it's a monster in it's own. Like you said M14, it has a low ROF and the second smallest capacity next to the ranger [[Draco122|Draco122]] 21:06, 26 November 2009<br />
<br />
::Actually it doesn't. I picked an 1887 up off a dead guy today, and was amazed. first thing is, that it has stunning range. Easily the best, can hit damn close to 50 feet. It holds 7 shots in MP as well, and you can dual wield them, cocking them T2 style. It's a beast of a shotgun, and I can't wait to unlock it for myself. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
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:::Isn't this weapon the Winchester 1897 shotgun, originally designed for trench warfare and used by the US military thru Vietnam (and plenty are still in use by civilians in the US). In playing COD 5: World at War, I haven't found the shotguns to be particularly effective. The Japanese NPCs are often so quick (esp in the higher difficulty level) that they are on you before you can chamber another round (esp in the section of the game where you have to destroy a howitzer with a 3 barreled 25mm AA gun and quickly take up a covered position to eliminate the Japanese counter-attack using a scoped Springfield). Two Japanese soldiers immediately attack you. I was killed more often using the shotgun than using the Type 100 or the .30 belt-fed machine gun--whose name just eluded me.<br />
<br />
:::As for COD6:MW2, I have yet to run into the 1897. With so many high tech weapons (and the bewildering array of Russian weapons in the Sgt Roach and Pvt Ramirez sections), why bother with such an obsolete weapon given the effectiveness of the ASC45 (?) that's standard issue for Rangers & Special Forces, esp when there are smg/shotgun combos available. Or the incredible arsenal in Makarov's safe house?<br />
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:::[[User:Newsjunkie356|Newsjunkie356]] 23:58, 9 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::: It's not an 1897, it's an 1887, being lever-action not pump-action. That and it's styled after the Terminator 2 shotgun anyway.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:03, 10 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==M1014 Removal?==<br />
Should we remove the section on the M1014 in this game? There hasnt been any confirmation of it appearing in game, aside from the misplaced icon.<br />
<br />
No, it has been confirmed now<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKwaOg7RYPo<br />
<br />
== Any Ideas On The .44 Magnum == <br />
I think its either a Raging bull or a colt anaconda. both look quite simmlar but im thinkin it more a colt anaconda than a raging bull reason being that the the magnum in game look as if it has smaller vents were as the raging bull as quite thick vents. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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On the Call of Duty wikipedia website it said it was a colt anaconda<br />
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Link plz? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Found a video on youtube where they switch classes revealing a .44 magnum on 0:16 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk]<br />
<br />
==Clean Up Page==<br />
I cleaned up the main page, but i can change it back if any one want's. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
<br />
I noticed that FourZeroTwo has a gun on his back before getting knifed, that you missed. It appears to be a PP-2000, please correct me if I'm wrong<br />
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http://www.modernwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pp-2000<br />
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You could be right, but Ive got a hunch it could be a MP7, which seems more likely. But from what we can see its hard to tell. (thx also :)<br />
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No problem, I just love MW and MW2 and had to point that out, but I didnt know who to talk to about it. Great site, too:) I learned loads about guns, like the difference between a Beretta and a Taurus:) - Terry 00:06<br />
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I was right about the PP-2000!:) - Terry 23:30<br />
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I was like "Sure" when i saw your above post, then i look at the pic of the PP-2000 akimbo, and was like "FUCK" cool any way m8 :)<br />
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== Bullet Types ==<br />
What is this about the Tavor being loaded with FMJ's? Is this supposed to mean that along with choosing weapon attachments, we also get to choose bullet types? - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
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A bit too confusing now lol, I'm thinking it will just be a perk, because if im right fmj's give higher velocities, but i couldn't see how this would affect the game, in cod 4 all bullets moved at the same speeds?<br />
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Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?<br />
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What i understand is that FMJ are solid bullets and the only bullets "allowed" in warfare from the Hague Conventions.<br />
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True, but but a "Black" operation such as this would hardly be concerned with the rules of "conventional warfare." =P<br />
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The Theory behind JHP (Jacketed Hollow Points) is that upon impact of the target the nose of the bullet mushrooms to a much larger size the then original diameter(caliber) of the bullet causing a larger wound channel and more "stopping power"<br />
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The downside to this is that since JHP expand during impact the force of the bullet is dispersed over a larger area on the target making these bullets less likely to pierce body armor, also some HP bullets give certain firearms trouble when cycling this ammo. my 1911 for instance... =)<br />
<br />
Your 1911's feeding of hollow point has to do with the type of 1911 usually. Different kinds of feeding ramps I'm told. My series 70 Gold cup has the same problem but my Springfield TRP feeds just fine.<br />
FMJ's moving at Higher velocities has to do with air drag, hollow points would create more of it. As others have said hope this helps, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong.<br />
<br />
But basically all bullets work well for their intended applications. its just that in this day and age there are so many options for a person to use its just matching the bullet to the task. Hunting, Target, Match, Self-defense, Low recoil or "Cowboy" Loads, Plinking. Its endless. -Furious Oyster (feel free to expand or remove if incorrect or unnecessary, just trying to help)<br />
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well... I didn't exactly want a bullet discussion, i was just wondering how this would affect the game, like if infinity ward would make it horrible and make stuff like hollow points do something like 4 times damage but only go as far as a "Call of Duty Shotgun". - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
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"Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?"- I just read alot on firearms :P but i remember coming across it?<br />
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As far as i know there is an international convention that bans the use of hollow point bullets and other expanding bullets for millitary purposes.<br />
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:That would be the Hague Convention. But from what I understand, it bans their use against ''state-employed combatants'' only, leaving them fair game for counter-terrorism ops and the like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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FMJs could be like the perk "Deep Impact"?<br />
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They are an attachment for the guns that gives them a little extra damage and better penetration through walls too.<br />
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== Extended Magazines Attachments ==<br />
Thought it was pretty cool, but will it be like a drum mag or something like bandolier, what ever it is i hope it applies to assault rifles.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Ump45em.jpg|400px]]<br />
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:Could be a dual mag clip, so you can reload faster. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 00:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: Magazine dammit!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:11, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
He said a clip that holds two magazines together for a speedier reload - Mythekal<br />
:::Huh. i never heard of that before. Good point, Mythekal.<br />
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Lol its still a mag Mythekal!<br />
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its usually just a metal or plastic part that latches to both mags allowing you to just pull out the used one move it to the left and reinsert the fresh mag... Some times its just a piece of tape. Google AR-15 mag couplers or something. -Furious Oyster (Sorry miss read it)<br />
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I knew what a dual mag clip is, i was merely trying to explain it to who ever thought that M14Fan said "Clip" instead of Magazine. And here is a picture to avoid further confusion. -[[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
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[[Image:Dual_Mag_clamp.jpg|200px]]<br />
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There better be an attachment like this for the AA-12, cause its gonna get really annoying reloading that lousy 8-shot magazine every five seconds after unloading on someone lol-ArmoredMason619<br />
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Apparently the extended mags are exactly what you think. They take the standard magazines of any gun and just add like 10 more rounds to it. I don't know about the reload animation, but most likely it's the same. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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the extended mags look exactly the same and reload the same they've just got more rounds- red raindog<br />
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==Barret .50== <br />
<br />
At the end of the Flag Runner video FourZeroTwo has a Barret M82. May not be, but it looks like one and sounds like one, it's a little blurry so i wasn't sure? -Final Tsurugi<br />
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It looks like a Barrett XM500 - Mythekal<br />
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How did i not notice that, actually might be a Barrett M99? - Final Tsurugi<br />
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:Or it could be the M107, the updated M82. ][[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy] 01:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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It wasnt the M99 because it was firing semi-automatically, and from the angle, the magazine was not visible, so i assume it was a bullpup - Mythekal<br />
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It is a Barret M82/M107, if you pause the video at the right moment you can see the magazine in front of the grip, i actually got excited to think we might have a bull-pup sniper in Modern Warfare 2 :P -Final Tsurugi<br />
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Nope. Youre all wrong, I mean you got the .50BMG part right, but its actually an Accuracy International AS50. Come on guys I cant be the only one who noticed that-Kellers357<br />
I'm almost positive that it is not an AI. It is just a M107 [[User:mythekal|mythekal]]<br />
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Most definitely a Barret 82/M107. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Brazillian Militia? ==<br />
<br />
They better make the main character waste the militia alongside the Brazilian Army or the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOPE/ BOPE] or i am not buying it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I actually like that causal outfit the militia wear :)<br />
::Me too. I never seen a brazilian wear a 1980s Miami Vice style flower shirt, but i do like how they have militia wearing Brazilian football team shirts. Makes it more realistic. I like the flower shirts though. They are cheesy as hell. It fits the game. Also, Please sign your posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah Miami vice ftw :) --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Guns from the new teaser==<br />
This SMG looks like a [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]].<br />
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|300px|[[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]]]]<br />
[[Image:MW2teastrail1.png|thumb|none|400px|I thought it was a MP5K but if we look closer, it doesn't seem to be one.]]<br />
:It could be a K with the forward grip removed? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
no, its an MP5K equipped with some sort of an RIS handguard to me-Kellers357<br />
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looks like an MP5 with a tactical end-cap, kinda like the end cap on the MP5K. no idea why there's a 15 round magazine though<br />
[[Image:MW2teastrail2.png|thumb|none|400px|And this one looks like a UMP but the the silhouette isn't exactly the same (maybe the model of the game was not loaded enough).]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:It definitely resembles a UMP, it probably has rails on the handguard, as well as the front sight removed, as they did in the last game ~[[user:Revolver|Revolver]]<br />
its a UMP with the foresight removed for the red dot-Kellers357<br />
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The one in the first picture is I think a Special Weapons MP-10. Check it out at the bottom of the mp5 page.<br />
::The forearm doesn't look as large as the MP-10 though... everything else looks like a MP-10 indeed.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
The two guns look similar minus the stock and clip. I could be wrong but I'm sure that if it isn't a special weapons mp-10 then it is an UMP.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
:Magazine goddamit![[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
What's wrong with saying clip? It means the same thing.<br />
:.. Uh, no. It's not. A 'clip' is the device that loads a magazine. You either use it to load your detachable magazines, or you carry the clips to load the fixed magazine in your rifle (on old rifles). You don't carry 'clips' around any more. They're two different things. It's like saying rim and tyre mean the same thing. --[[User:Joffeloff|Joffeloff]] 12:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
I've never heard that before. I can see where clip comes from stripper clip that they used in rifles. Everyone around me says clip and mag is interchangeable but people use mag more often. If it really bothers you that much then I'll just say mag then.<br />
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Special Weapons MP-10 9x19mm]]<br />
The second one looks like an UMP. I'm pretty sure we're dealing with two guns here.<br />
::Yeah but there is no rear sight on the one in the screenshot, and it's disturbing me... maybe they took it away because of the Red Dot on it.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
Actually if you look closely that kinda square shape towards the back of the gun is the iron sight so it's pretty much an UMP with what looks like an ACOG. If you're talking about the front sight for the UMP which does appear to be missing, remember that they removed the front sights from the M4/M16 when you attach a sight even though that's not standard.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
[[Image:UMP 45.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch UMP .45 ACP]]<br />
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
I've got a clearer shot of the weapon thanks to a friend :)<br />
[[Image:MW2MP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok I guess it's not an MP-10 but a dressed up MP-5. They did it to the AK I suppose they are going to do it to the MP-5?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Guys on CoD Wikia found an interesting thing about this gun and I pretty agree: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Modern_Warfare_2#Sub_Machine_Guns <br/>They say it's a MP5K with a R.I.S system. Since they've put one for the M4, I guess that's possible.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It has to be a MP5k with a rail. The short magazine,no stock, and small flashider make it the only possible variant.<br />
<br />
==what AK is this?==<br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=2&newsid=20387 <br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=4&newsid=20387<br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=5&newsid=20387<br />
<br />
In the first image I can see that it has a waffle magazine. In the second image I can see that a muzzle brake is present, and in the last image I can see what appears to be a Tapco Intrafuse AK-47 Handguard. So what is it? Oh and it appears to have a synthetic stock. [[Special:Contributions/72.133.253.21|72.133.253.21]] 21:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guns from the trailer ==<br />
[[Image:MW2brazil.png|thumb|none|400px|FN FAL or Imbel MD-3 (brazilian variant of the FAL)?]]<br />
I hope it's an FAL. You barely ever see them in video games-S&Wshooter<br />
:Could be a variant of the KTR-03S - an AK custom build [http://www.krebscustom.com/RawPhotos/6-28-04/KTR-03SFinal.jpg]. - MCain (UTC)<br />
:Me too. I love fals. And the gun above looks like a IMBEL MD2. Heres the wikipedia article: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMBEL_MD2]. Note how it has a STANAG Magazine like the MD2.I also love how ridiculous looking the Brazilian gang members are.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::rather MD-3 isn't it? Since it hasn't a foldable stock.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah without the folding stock it is a MD3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::However, the gun's long barrel looks more like a FAL... ahh sh*t! This fuc*ing game is driving me mad, every guns don't look exactly the same as their originals^^--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I think there are Imbel MD2s or MD3s with the regular barrel.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Ok, there are no Imbel MD3s with regular barrels. It's most likely a design error by the developters.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
(comment: It better be a FAL. I'm getting tired of M4's, M16's, AK's and G36's. I want to be able to use a gun ingame that in't too small for me in real life.-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]])<br />
:I agree. the game better have G3s and IMI galils. I also love the fact that is a Brazilian made Fal. You don't see those in movies.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I also want a MG3 or some kind of big, dumb machine gun chambered to 7.62x51mm NATO. Machine guns chambered to 7.62 tear shit up.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Hell yeah man! Thats exactly what I'm saying. I would also like to see some more bolt action jobs that aren't crappy( DSR-1, Enfield Enforcer, Steyr SSG) in video games- [[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::''This would probably be the IMBEL MD-2 (folding stock) or MD-3 (fixed stock) which is manufactured locally in Brazil. The weapons are based, pretty much, on the FAL with the exception that they fire a 5.56 round'' [[User:Charon68|Charon68]]<br />
:::And are fed from STANAG Magazines and have different handguards.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I'm tired of .223 guns. I would like to see a FAL, M14 or G3 that isn't emasculated (made innacurate, weak or make ammo for it scarce)-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]]<br />
::I want a M14 that is not tricked out with rails like the one in Call of Duty 4. I want a M14 like the one below:<br />
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A real M14.]]<br />
I do like the Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR rifle though. I also want A M16A4 that doesn't fire on Full Auto and a AK-74. AK-74s don't get enough love.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::CoD 7 will be about Vietnam War according to rumours, maybe they'll put in one.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 19:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And smaller conflicts in africa. I hope they also put atleast one level that takes place in the portuguese colonial war.<br />
[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:29, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Now i think the FAL above may be a FN FAL with rails on the handguards and a 30 round magazine but i think it's too curved and big to be 7.62x51mm NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
im taking a guess that the FAL looking rifle is a DSA SA58 OSW. im probably wrong, but thats my two cents<br />
:Way too big to be an SA58. The SA58 is a Carbine. The one in the upper picture is an Assault Rifle. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:02, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
[[Image:MW2smg.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*A Kriss Super V?<br />
Does anyone know who the guy with the KRISS is? Im calling him Brazilian Secret Service but I'm sure Im wrong. Help?-Kellers357<br />
Cool. The pistol is a Desert Eagle, by the way.-protoAuthor<br />
:I think the pistol is a Jericho 941 since it's too small to be a desert eagle.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::No, it's an Eagle. Check out the ejection port.<br />
:::''I concur. It's not terribly visible, but there's that familiar slide mounted safety in both shots. It appears to be a totally game-created custom finish though - the barrel and the underlying section of the frame (where the gas pistons are housed) look to be blued and the grips and the rest of the frame looks silver. On a couple of related notes, wow at the graphics - I took these for pictures of the developers testing out their guns at first - and wow at the handling of the Desert Eagle by this guy. Usually in these games, you see handguns being handled only somewhat compentently at best. This guy looks like he sleeps with the damn thing.'' ---[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 02:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Also, take note of the sound it makes when it fires. Exact same sound as the Desert Eagle in CoD4.<br />
:::::Besides, the game is still going through production and the weapon models will be touched up. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The machine gun ==<br />
I think the machine gun that the russian terrorists are using is a M240.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think it's a M249 SAW, the M240 (GP Machine gun) is bigger.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Could it possibly be a Mk. 46?<br />
:Makes sense since most of the guns are special forces guns.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well the M240B has been added just look at the new multiplayer trailer. IGN rewind theater confirms it too. could someone add it on the main article? -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
==New AK==<br />
[[Image:AKMW2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
I think its just an amped up AK-47. It has an AR-15 stock, waffle magazine, and has a synthetic handguard.<br />
Found a similar image:<br />
[[Image:Ak-47-weapon-accessories-desert-colourb.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 22:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Good god, look what they did to that AK! That's just horrible. I hope the AK in the game isn't like that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:37, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I watched the trailer again. I am sure that i saw a AK with a AK-74 style flash hider.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe a AK-101 since NATO forces use 5.56mm.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think it could be a AK-74M or just a AK-74 since the russian army might make a apparence and they need to arm the russian soldiers.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I said "NATO forces"--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC) because the one having it in the screenshot is Soap... well, maybe or surely, he captured because he had a M14 at the beginning.<br />
::Well...the game's plot is a about a Uber badass special forces unit that works alone and is headed by our buddy Soap up there. So, i guess the badass special forces unit is not part of NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:35, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Neither AK-101 or AK-74, the magazine in the image holds 7.62x39mm. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 00:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Maybe theres the tricked out AK up there and the AK-74 style AK.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well, seems like we won't know until we'll have a level walkthrough with the name of the weapon in it...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I saw the Gameplay videos and i saw two different AKs. One with a AKM style muzzle brake and another one with a AK-74 style flash hider. Maybe we can build guns from the ground up? like, you can have a AK-47 with a kobra sight, snow camo, fires 7.62x39mm and has a AK-74 flash hider?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
*It's gotta be an AKM.<br />
::Why the it would be an AKM? It looks like an AK-74M or one of the AK-100 series.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Well it has ribbing on the top of the reciever, like the AKM, but the indentation I cannot clearly see. It could be like in Farcry 2, where it has the Ak-47 receiver with some AKM parts, and I used AKM because the 100 series are developments on the AKM, understand? So AK-47 is incorrect.<br />
::::But the AK-10X series were developments on the AK-74M. Also, sign you posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well technically the modernizations start with the AKM, I see it as the break off point of the AK series. Ak-74 was designed from the AKM, and so on and so on, but that doesn't matter, yeah it could be the 100 series, but my point is its not an AK-47. Also lacks the flash hiders of the 74 and 100s. But I think it's a frankenAK-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]<br />
::I think the AK-74 flashider can be seen when in first person. Like how in the first Modern Warfare, The first person model of the M4 had an grip on the handguard but the world model didn't have a grip. I also think it's an frankengun or it may be an AK that the player can build. Like in hitman: Blood Money.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I don't think so on the 74, but I think we can agree in the meantime it is not an AK-47 so we should change the heading accordingly, evidence shows it is a modernized variant so we could say a Kalashnikov in the heading and have notations that it is a modernized variant.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]<br />
<br />
It looks like it has the AK-47 variant front sight on it.<br />
<br />
Guys, I guess it's new railed AK-103 from Izhmash with M4ish buttstock and waffled mags. Check the link below for pics, note the same muzzle brake etc as in the game.<br />
[http://depositfiles.com/files/xgycdj189 new AK-103]<br />
<br />
:That link goes to a pay-to-download site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Unrealeted ==<br />
Ok, i know this has nothing to do with the game or releted to guns but, i was reading the Modern Warfare 2 thread on the Something Awful forums and they were calling the Brazilian gangters africans. What the ? and they seen to think the scenes in Rio De Janeiro are set in Africa. What the mother ? it offends me that people are dumb enough to ignore the line "he's got a contact in rio" and Christ the Redeemer and the huge mountains with favelas full of illiterate drug dealers and the Brazilian made Imbel MD-3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What do you expect? It's Something Awful!<br />
<br />
To be fair all the favela gangsters that are seen so far are Afro-Brazilians, even if there are plenty of gang members of all races in real life. With so many games having levels in destroyed urban areas in Africa it's not surprising that some people would get a Black Hawk Down style vibe from the pictures.<br />
<br />
Personally I hate something Awful as they break their own rules on posting. One member has a post on there with my first and last names and it's a bloody poison pen hitpeice. I asked the frigging syop to remove the shit and he laughed at me. Personally I find the site the home of a bunch of elitist idiots who have at least one member dumb enough to set the fuel line for a weilding torch on fire.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 19:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, i like something awful but you have to be really dumb not to see the Christ the redeemer.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Hopes For New Game==<br />
<br />
Want a little realism and some weapons like standard battle rifles not all trick out with rails. Hoping russians have ak-74s and makarovs or that new 9x19 pistol they developed, not ak47s. Militias and gangs should have a mix of guns, not all berettas and 1911s. A makarov, cz-75, hk or two, glock, model 19 smiths.....just variety.<br />
<br />
What the fick is an "akarov"? Lol-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Makarov, a 9x18mm pistol that has been issued in several variants to the russian military. Come on, seriously, sticky keys some things are mspelled.<br />
<br />
I knew that. I was just kidding-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think the brazilians should use taurus and stoeger guns too, that would be realistic. And the militia should have some sxs coach guns and taurus revolvers, you know, the non tatcticla stuff. And psitols should be portrayed as hard to shoot, not coming back exactly on target after each round and it should wobble a bit while aiming.<br />
:The Brazilian gangsters are using tricked out guns with rails. At least the IMBEL MD-3 up there has a Eotech reflex sight and what looks like rails on the handguards but they could be the regular MD-3 hand guard. We know the AKs are going to be tricked out as like the image above but i think i saw a AK-74 that was not tricked out. I hope they have a AK-74.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
My major hope for the game is a surpressed sniper rifle available on multiplayer not single. The first Modern Warfare was a great stealth game with all the "Surpressors", and "Ghillie Suits" but really was a "Greek Tragedy" on multiplayer. I could understand that your average military trained sniper has a spotter and a shooter and are trained to be the world's top 10 patient people in the world but can't put the patience into a live game with real people in a seven minute match. Aside from history why couldn't the writers just put a M21 with a surpressor on in multiplayer like in the missions "Blackout" and "All Ghillied Up"? For the new guys to COD4 on the M21 attachments there are only two attachments "No Attachment" has a standard scope, the ACOG attachment has a ACOG scope and is missing a surpressor as a third attachment. If you understand how to customize your attachments you wouldn't be so confused but since the "No Attachment" feature has a standard scope why not have the surpressor and scope. It just doesn't make sense why you would have the same setup in the campaign but not in multiplayer. We can all understand why you can't have more than one attachment on any other weapons but why not add a surpressor on a sniper that has "No Attachment" for it's standard scope? I am probably to late to send this message to Infinity Awards but I spent 20 minutes on it so I might get lucky if they read it and a miracle if they change it. I'm just sharing my hopes so try not to delete it.<br />
<br />
I hope they get more shotguns in and make them a tiny bit better.m3,870,m1300,m950,etc. Two shotguns that go 5 feet suck, especially when pistols can go as far as sniper rifles.<br />
<br />
* If they added compensators to the attachments for handguns would be cool. It sucks that there's only one attachment for pistols in MW1, and the D-Eagle hasnt got anything that can be put on it, and that sucks even more. Maybe different calibers for the D-Eagles could be used too, but that might be going too far. And I hope theres an SG552 in there aswell, I love that gun so much. And if they added firing selection to the game, you could switch the SPAS from pump to semi auto, which would also be cool, and a touch more realistic.<br />
<br />
:More Desert Eagle is the ''last'' thing this game needs. Seriously, why not a SIG 226 or HK45 instead (i.e., an actual ''combat pistol'')? One thing I want for sure is a freaking fire selector for assault rifles and carbines. Like has been said on the CoD4 page, full auto or bust sucks. I prefer quick double tapping on semi-auto. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
My hopes for this game? An automatic FAMAS; leave the 3-round burst to the M16. Also, a true M14. As for everything else, well, the only thing I was worried about from the onset was the RPD, but since it's been confirmed, I'm ecstatic. And I like how they're doing the secondary weapon thing. Having a shotgun as your primary could be pretty useless sometimes...[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
-you no what, they need to make a real "modern warfare" game, like with acts going from Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, and hell Somalia, who wouldnt want to play a blackhawk down game with kick ass graphics AND guns, that is what cod7 should be and obviously with the real weaponry they had, ex- no Magpul Masada in vietnam, Sad but true, any agree with this?- Griz<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1200==<br />
<br />
We all know the 1200 is old and not used since vietnam. The 1300 is used. Would it be safe to say these are mis-named winchester 1300s? Or is it more video game nonsense?<br />
:The 1200 in this game is the same 1200 from Modern Warfare 1 so it's safe to say that the Winchester is a 1200 even though is pretty retarded to militarys still be using the 1200 today.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:52, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I seriously doubt the 1200 was ever made in this configuration.<br />
:Me too but it is a video game and video game developters are pretty retarded when it comes to guns. Still, this and COD4 have the best Gun in video game history atleast by now.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Watching over the video again on youtube and moderwarfare2.com, the weapon does look like a Winchester 1200 at first glance, yet I'm also convinced it may be a Remington 870 MCS, either in the Entry configuration or the Patrol Configuration due to the length of the barrel or it maybe the combination of the two, due to the length of the barrel with an added entry front sight. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 22:15, 11 August 2009<br />
<br />
[[Image:Rem870mcs_14.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
== Alright ==<br />
Alright you son-of-a-bitches there's a gameplay video in gametrailers. It's pretty low quality but some new guns were seen, including the gun with the heartbeat sensor and some others. Now, i don't know how to screencap trailers so someone else will have to do it.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Here they come:<br />
[[Image:MW2AR1.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2AR2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
YOU FOOL! It's "sons-of-bitches". That's a pretty awesome-looking cap, though.-protoAuthor<br />
:Thanks for the correction. I am sure Soap and Roach we using AKs with AK-74 flash hiders. Anyone have any idea what kind of AKs were those?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:20, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Oliveira, do you think you could post a link of the trailer for me, please? Thanks so much. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Which trailer?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== gameplay demo ==<br />
<br />
did anyone see the new gameplay demo for Modern Warfare 2<br />
it showed "Roach"(main protagonist) with a IMBEL MD-3 with a dot sight and a...radar<br />
im not good with gun attachments but is there really a radar attatchment?<br />
:It's a heartbeat sensor and the gun wasn't a MD-3. it looked like a fictional gun of some sort.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::some says it's a SCAR--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Makes sense since the charging handle is on the right side. But i think the SCAR charging handle is on the left side.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
-It looks like a Sig 556 variant to me - Mythekal<br />
<br />
Yeah looks like the sig556 itself thogh, not the military versions? Also, would it be safe to say the glock is a glock 18, no idea how anyone would mistake a full auto as a g22/.<br />
<br />
It could just be a fully automatic Glock 22. Gun rules dont necessarily matter to video games - Mythekal<br />
:Mythekal is right. Hell, Modern Warfare 1 had a M16A4 that fired on full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All that matters is the real weapon that the in-game version is modeled from. Call of Duty 4 had an Aks-74u modeled from an Airsoft gun - Mythekal<br />
<br />
I'm starting to think that this rifle could be a Bushmaster ACR, as it shares similar traits, except for the placement of the charging handle - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:My thoughts too. The charging handle is consistent to the ACR, but the SCAR has the same kind of charging handle. We can't see the stock and both could accept a thermold mag. So it could be either. I really doubt they make up an entire fiction rifle for the sake of it. Modern Warfare was always all about guns that are real. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Though the weird part is, the ACR has a slide release right next to the trigger, similiar to the XM8. You reload and just press forward with your trigger finger, no need to slap or pull the charging handle. The SCAR has the slide release like the AR-15 rifles, you can just slap it to release, but yet in the gameplay, you don't slap a slide release or push a slide release, you pull the charging handle back. Strange [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It could be a Magpul Masada. It is very similar to the weapon in the videos, and has a charging handle on the right side of the receiver. In the video, the stock has a hinge, indicating a folding stock, which looks almost identical to the Masada. - Mythekal<br />
<br />
The rifle also has ambidexterous charging handles - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:That sumbitch is most certainly a Masada.<br />
<br />
new gameplay vid says it's a silenced ACR with heartbeat sensor.<br />
<br />
I think it is a Magpul Masada [[User:Choi117|Choi117]]<br />
:I watched the Gameplay and i'm sure that the gun is a ACR.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
ACR is the masada. Same gun, switched manufacturer.<br />
:Sorry, i didn't know that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
But the stock is that of the Masada - Mythekal<br />
<br />
::ACR man, I know the Masada sounds cooler, but it isn't call that anymore. It's like people still calling the REC 7 a Barret M468 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:42, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or any of the M16 series of weapons a AR-15.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well if it's called AR15, you would be referring to the civilian M16 rifles. M16 is a military weapon and an AR-15 isn't. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I think the pistol is a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18C]]<br />
:Most likely since it was firing on Full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::It was pointed out that the firing rate wasn't the same speed as a real [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], but it could be that the developers couldn't quite get the slide and sound speed for a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]]. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or it could be a [[Glock]] firing on semi-automatic. [[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::That little er fires fast if its semi auto (pardon my language)<br />
:::::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18's]] did not have this color available. [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22's]] just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.<br />
<br />
==Weapons-trailers==<br />
<br />
Been seeing trailers online annoncing weapons and perks. How much cred do they have? Theres no footage to back it up, bt several announced weapons are in the screenshots. They also list the 110 SASR, L85, L85 mg version, etc.<br />
:Weapon trailers? Where the hell can i find those? They could be really useful for the article.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Youtube, theres a "weapons" one that just lists guns, and a weapons and perks thing, the perks it actually ahs proof from the original teaser.<br />
<br />
:I wouldn't trust any of those youtube bull. One said there might be an XM8 in the game. I hope it does not. That's one more step towards having all the guns Rainbow Six have. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Those videos are pure speculation. I'm sure those are all . We will only document weapons that are confirmed by the developters and seen in gameplay.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hbar? ==<br />
I don't want to offend anyone but, what the mother is a Hbar?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Its the Heavy barreled variant of the Aug meant to be a squad based machine gun - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:Hbar could also be refering to anything really. Heavy barrel anything. I've seen plenty of AR-15 variants in movies with Hbars. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6211390/?hd=1&tag=live-schedule] Sometime when the player passes over ennemies' corpses, he can take their weapons. One of them (the other is often a FA-MAS) is a AUG. There is four letter after it, a H at the beginning and I don't see well the other 3. But there is only one variant of the AUG with a "H" in its name, and that's the HBar.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Could someone upload a image of the icon in the above video? The link isn't working for me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I just watched the E3 gameplay again. The AUG HBAR pick up symbol looks amazingly like the SA80 British service rifle. Might be a place holder or something.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
:I made a note of it in the actual page. It DOES look like an SA80 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::My money's on a mislabel. We know the standard AUG is confirmed (all those screenshots) so why not the HBAR too?--[[Special:Contributions/142.162.149.33|142.162.149.33]] 17:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you pause it right before you kill the guy who carried it it's an AUG. So therefore its a mislabel. (I wish I can upload the screenshot but dun know how.)<br />
:::Sign you posts for christ's sake.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
== Correct Name ==<br />
I think we should call this game Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 instead of just [[Modern Warfare 2]] because we have a entire alphabetized series of Call Of Duty in the Video Games Category and just putting this in the "M" section does not look we even have this page. If somebody knows how to put this in the "C" section with out changing the name that will be organized.<br />
<br />
:Well that's the problem. Originally it WAS called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and some still do, but officially, the publishers decided to shorten the title for some reason. We COULD for alphabetize sake, put Call of Duty in front so it fits with the others. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And I've successfully changed the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Wait, I thought the reason that this was called Modern Warfare 2 was because Infinity Ward no longer wanted to make any more WWII related games and as such gave the "Call of Duty" moniker to Treyarch. Modern Warfare is supposedly now a separate series from Call of Duty. [[User:Markit|Markit]]<br />
:Modern Warfare is its own series now and isn't a CoD game anymore.-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Or we could make a new "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" page which bring it here.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Actually, this game is still being published by Activision that published the previous game. It is STILL apart of the Call of Duty franchise, they just chose to officially call this game just Modern Warefare 2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Keep it modern warfare 2, but link them together, like GM did linking all the dirty harry movies together.<br />
<br />
I just saw a new official cover art for the game. It says<br />
CALL OF DUTY<br />
MODERN WARFARE 2<br />
so i think we should call it call of duty modern warfare 2 -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
Thats just the boxart. Officially by the gamedevs its only called Modern warefare 2. They just slapped "call of duty" on there because a lot of people are stupid enough not to realise this IS a sequel to Call of Duty 4: modern warefare [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
== Taskforce 141 = Rainbow Six ==<br />
<br />
A multinational commando unit? The moment I read that, I immediately thought Rainbow and well we really can't complain what kinds of weapons these guys uses since they are a fictional unit like Rainbow so they can use whatever they want. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I was expecting the task forece to be from the UN. That would be cool.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::But if they say they are are UN taskforce makes the team sound kinda...pointless Like the UN does anything. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I though Rainbow Six was a UN Task Force? Anyway, a movie or televison series about a UN Uber badass task force that were formed to catch international criminals would be really cool. The problem with the UN is that they try to be neutral and being neutral doesn't do anything. The UN should be reformed to be more of a International police that works against international criminals and make international laws.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
I like the UN the way it is. What you're talking about sounds like the first step to a totalitarian society.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
:What i'm talking about is stuff like Resolution 84. I also like the UN the way it is but, they fail at quick responses to genocide such as the Rwandan Genocide in 1994.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
In general they fail at mostly any response. They just don't have the power to back up their enforcement of peace. Any peace keeping force with too much power can be oppressive. Who will keep the peace keepers in check when they're suppose to keep us in check? Quite the dilemma. I just don't think the idea of the U.N. or anything similar can work.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
:The United States shall keep the UN in check, without US, there is no UN. They need us more than we need them. It might seem like typical arrogant American mentality, but from how things are, the US has more indirect influence and handle over the entire world. We are the world's insurance policy, the self proclaimed enforcer, guardian, peacekeeping super power despite all our internal problems with crime, money and other things, but because of our population and how relatively young our nation is, the intense diversity in culture and believes keeps us in check. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The Problem is when someone like Bush Jr. comes up and s everything up. Could you imagine having someone like him being President of The United States during the Cold War? Anyway, The UN did have a really good quick response to the North Korean invasion of South Korea. We almost had North Korea. If weren't for the goddamm chinese.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Yeah if it weren't for them all this Kim Jong Il shit wouldn't be happening and we wouldn't be about to go to war in Korea-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 18:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Hey Smith, if someone is at fault for not winning the Korean War and not having only one Korea, is Mao. Truman also kinda ed up by telling the 7th Fleet to enter the Taiwan Straits.<br />
:::Um, Task Force 141 is a play on Task Force 121, which in real life is a (dare I say) black ops verison of JSOC. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
I think the Task Force 141 is referring to Task Force 145 in reality. Task Force 145 is a joint force combining US and UK special forces<br />
<br />
Task Force 121 was in no way a Black Ops Unit. It was, as 145 is, a multinational military unit assigned dircetly to counter-terrorism. Task Force 121 no longer exists it is now known as 145, which is what Task Force 141 in the game is based off of.<br />
<br />
team rainbow was made to combat terrorism the old commander of ranbow is was a navy seal and a cia agent. he is the guy in clear and present danger is his name mr. clark.<br />
<br />
Yeah that's from the original book, Rainbow Six. The games are all based around it. He was and Ex-SEAL who was recruited by the CIA and became an Operator[a Spy, if you wanna be movie technical.]. His name was John Clark.<br />
<br />
:My Rainbow Six history isn't what it used to be, but I'm pretty sure John Clark was just the director of Rainbow and didn't do much field work (most of which was left to Ding Chavez, at least until the Vegas games when he was promoted to Six and Logan and Bishop were brought into the picture). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
True, he didn't do much feild. About all he did in the basis of feild work was at the end of the novel where they hunt down the Bio-terrorist's and chase them to their secondary base in Brazil. He run's the show basically as Feild Commander.<br />
<br />
Task Force 141 in-game is made-up of an unknown amount of countries military. The three that you can definately tell are, U.S. Military, British S.A.S., and Australian S.A.S.<br />
<br />
== More weapons comfirmed ==<br />
<br />
It seems that p90 is making a return and spas 12 will also be ingame<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKBEQoSpu8<br />
:That guy got a lot of the guns wrong and that AUG Hbar looked more like a SA80 to me. And what the hell is up the people thinking that the FAL in the trailer is a AK? It looks nothing like it!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:00, 6 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well, most people are unaware of all the different kinds of firearms. I'm surprise this guy in the vid ID as much as there was. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CPT. Price ==<br />
I hope we get to find out if CPT. Price from CoD4 survived or not. That's been bugging me... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:47, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I think it would cheapen the ending of Modern Warfare 1 if he survived.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:51, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
How would that cheapen the ending of the first game? It was never clear if any of the team's survived. What about the Mile High Club mission where you hear Price and Gaz talk? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Gaz got shot in the face with a Desert Eagle, he's dead.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
Captain Price leads the Task Force in this game!<br />
<br />
No, Soap leads the Task Force<br />
<br />
Soap does sound kind of similar to Cpt. Price. I guess Price rubbed off on him a little or something.<br />
<br />
*Price managed to last for sixty years without ageing, dying or trimming his moustache, so I can't see a little thing like being shot dead getting to him. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 10:16, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well...I would like if he came back right at the end and save Soap and Roach. But, he better have a even glourious moustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, recalling CoD1 a little more, Price has ''already'' died once in the series. He was shot dead on board the ''Tirpitz'' and you just left him there, only for him to turn up again in CoD2 apparently none the worse for it. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 08:26, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Didn't COD2 take place before COD1?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Can't remember, to be honest, I didn't play it that much; I was busy being an Annoyed PC Gamer because they took away my quicksaves, fire modes and health packs and replaced them with Not Being Killed Grenades [throw one to not be killed by that machinegun!]. Still, this is his second death in the series, so I wouldn't expect it to cramp his style much. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 12:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Gaz and Griggs got wasted though.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:03, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Cpt. Price in CoD 1 and 2 is a diffrent Price, most probably grandfather. And it is unsure if Price died or if he got promoted and got a higher position...<br />
<br />
*Oh come on, it's either a clone or the same guy, they just came up with that when people started seriously questioning an extremely silly off-hand reference. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 07:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Don't talk about something you don't know sh¤t about... [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Price_(Call_of_Duty_4)] the two Cpt. Price are two diffrent guys<br />
<br />
*Two different, totally identical guys. It's an elaborate cover story to hide that Price is invincible and immortal. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Captain Price is a symbol representing the glourious British Military. Ok, he is just a tradition for the Guys at Infinity Ward but it would be really cool if he was a symbol.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Hes dead a russian medic was seen trying to revive him but failed an started bashing his chest<br />
<br />
Gaz... gone, .50 AE round to the face and you're done. Price... I doubt he'd be returning because let's face it he did die in COD4 and the Russian medic wouldn't have pounded his chest if he didn't die. As far as previous games go, Price was able to return because they didn't really have a tight storyline to them. But this Modern Warfare series does. So if Price returns, I think it'll be a bit ridiculous.<br />
:I like that they Replaced Price with Soap but there is one thing i don't like about it.<br />
<br />
No Glourious Mustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, but apparently Soap has a glorious Mohawk. And Price could be a good Zombie.<br />
<br />
Even if Price lived through the end of COD4, do you really think he'd still fight?<br />
:What reason would there be for him ''not'' to? Guys get wounded and go back to active duty all the time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Voice Actor, Billy Murray, has been confirmed as having worked on the project, if that's worth anything.<br />
:: Unfortunatly that could just end up being part of a flashback mission like in CoD 4. Here's hoping it's for a part of the main game.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
-Hes in the new trailer. Seriously, end of debate- k9870<br />
::If you're on about the guy on the assault boat, all we see is a guy in a boonie from behind. I'm going to withhold judgement until the game actually comes out.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At beginning of the Takedown level, Royce addresses "Bravo Six," Price's call sign from CoD4. Keep in mind that Captain Macmillan was Alpha Six, and that Soap's call sign is ''rumored'' to be Papa Six.<br />
:: Except Bravo six was also Lt Vasquez's callsign. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: Except that Vasquez died in a nuclear explosion. Price's odds of survival are much better that someone who was nuked, crashed in a helicopter, and then exposed to radiation. <br />
::: Hence my point, which is that the callsign is non-indicative. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think everyone here just needs to except that Cpt. Price has returned and is immortal like many other great men with Facial hair (I.E Gordan Freeman, Solid Snake, Chewbacca)<br />
:Actually chewbacca dies. Gets a moon crashing into him.-protoAuthor 05:22, 18 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
it has been rumored that captain price (billy murray) will return as the commander of the 22 reg along with SSGT griggs (somehow) due to the fact we have been told (through the twitter page) that the voice actors have been paid record their voices but even then thiers nothing from stoping them from making another flashback mission with them<br />
<br />
:Hence my original point. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:53, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
sorry ment to update that earlier CPT price is confirmed as retuning as the unit leader again after soap and roach break him out of a Russian prison (at that point price trys to kill roach but stops when he sees soap) the M1911 that you see on soap is the same as whats from MW1 which is returned to price then you can figure the rest out. end of story. regards scarec<br />
<br />
The voice actor of SSGT. Griggs from the first MW, came back as the narrator of the SEALs in multiplayer. Same as Craig Fairbrass does as Ghost for all the Special Ops missions and for Task Force 141 on multiplayer.<br />
<br />
:SEALs? Don't you mean Rangers? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
In Multiplayer, you have a different voice that announces the game for the Rangers. You would hear an american voice say "insert type of game", then he would say "Rangers lead the way". The voice of Griggs would say "insert type of game" then "let's do this", in mulitplayer, you can play middle easterns, Brazillians, russians, british, and Rangers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==General Observations==<br />
Though I freely admit I got wood watching this trailer one thing I noticed is that the guys from ''Infinity Ward'' seemed to have recycled some scenery. When they showed the guys running through the alleyways of Rio I swear it reminded me of the alleyways of the Arab capital the Marines run through in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]].<br />
<br />
:Not really. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The New pictures ==<br />
Could someone tell me where did that picture of the american soldier with the M4 came from?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/special-ops-characters --[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Jesus Christ, is the weapons section of that website all kinds of ed up. Thet called an FN-FAL a G3 and they called an AK-74 a AK-47. What the mother ? At least that means that we, IMFDB members, have the best website documenting weapons in Modern Warfare 2. But still, what the mother ?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
Is all the cussing necessary but yes I do agree that this website is the most reliable.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Wow... that site has the MP5 listed as being 40. S&W [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
LoL that site is horrible... if you think that page is bad just jump into the forums... all kinds of gems in there... read the one about the Taurus Raging Bull. the guy says "goodluck reloading its four barrels" <- That had me laughing with the stupidity of that statement. - Furious Oyster<br />
<br />
== TAR-21 or F2000? ==<br />
[[Image:MW2TR6.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Brazilian Militia firing the unknown rifle, presumably a[[FN F2000#FN F2000 Tactical|FN F2000 Tactical]]]]<br />
Isn't it a TAR-21 rather than a F2000?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's way too big to be a Tavor. Most likely an F2000.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah... the form is rather an F2000 too...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:My question is where the is the scope?-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 15:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::There is an version of the FN2000 that has the scope replaced with rails. I guess that's the one in the picture above.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Whats that under the F2000? Its too skinny to be an M203, I think its a shotugn--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 03:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Looks like an Remington 870.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
How the hell would they fit a shotgun/Masterkey on the three inches of forward rails that the F2000 has? More like a shotgun with an F2000 attachment, rather than the other way around.--[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well it definetly looks to be a shotgun, however it's mounted on there.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:I see it now. It is an F2000 with the shotgun attachment and the way the shotgun is attached makes the gun look retarded. They didn't make the SCAR's own grenade launcher attachment, so obviously they didn't do the F2000's attachment and worse, they didn't take off the removeable handguard and just put the M203 directly under the barrel, they had to slap it at the bottom of the damn thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
::I have heard however that the F2000s red dot sight in multiplayer is the standard F2000 optical sight, much like the TAR-21 uses the MARS sight in multiplayer as well, and the L86 uses the SUSAT in place of the ACOG. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::I've used F2000s with the standard scope in Special Ops and the L86 does indeed have a SUSAT (that thing is horrible, BTW) in place of the ACOG. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:37, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MP7? Are you sure? ==<br />
<br />
Where do you exactly see MP7?<br />
<br />
I only see custom MP5 (or MP5k without foregrip) on the right and two copies of another unidentified weapons on the left.<br />
They have curved magazines where MP7 has foregrip and their casing is completly different.<br />
MP7 doesn't match...<br />
[[User:Morihaus|Morihaus]] 17:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)Morihaus<br />
<br />
I saw a picture of it yesterday and i cant remember where. and i think it was a russian behind a shield, but im not sure if i remember that correctly. but the MP7 is definitely here -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
The MP7A1 is seen in the Reveal trailer in the hands of the Brazilian Secret Service agents fighting off an insurgent force from a crashed C-130-Kellers357<br />
<br />
== FAL Please ==<br />
<br />
I know one of the screenshots show's what appears to be an MD-2, but I still wanan see a FAL in MW2. I'm getting annoyed by G36Cs and M16s and G3KA4s in all these games. The FAL was a true combat rifle, and I do has want (sorry for net speak)--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 20:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: I absolutely agree with the above statement-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Me too but, the MD-2 is good enough for me. And it is Brazilian! That makes me proud of being Brazilian.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: I like the Imbel also, its a pretty solid gun-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Which Imbel? Imbel is the manufacturer.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Their FAL copy with the fixed stock (it's the only one I've held)-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 22:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Those are just called FN FALs.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::The Imbel is great and all, but the FAL is a solid 7.62 rifle. Also, I noticed they're using the AUG A1, not A3 for MW2. I'm pleased with that as the original AUG model was always my favorite.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:08, 26 June <br />
2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TDI "Kriss" ==<br />
I know the Kriss is going to be hyped in MW2, as its a powerful .45 ACP SMG that has virtually no recoil and great accuracy. But the guys at IW won't let such a perfect gun into multiplayer, because it'll turn into a noob weapon fast. My bet's on that they purposely change one of it's stats to make it more balanced. Any guesses on what they'll take away from it? My bet is make it less powerful.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There IS recoil in the Kriss. Every gun has recoil.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::True, but it varies what the recoil force actually ''does'' and how much of it the user feels; the recoil has to go somewhere, but it can be towards things like fighting the gun's own muzzle climb by shoving a weight downwards [as with the Kriss], stopping a barrel that's moving forwards [as with the XM307 / XM312], or quite a number of other things. The general idea is that the Kriss has very light felt recoil for its weight [less than half the weight of a Thompson] because of the novel operating system. And I imagine they'll either limit the magazine, turn it into a peashooter or make it horribly inaccurate. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 02:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or Infinity Ward could make the Kriss a Kicking Rad gun that you will get when you reach the highest level. An all around gun.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 02:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::What about the Rate of Fire? i don't remember if the Kriss had a high R.O.F. or not<br />
:::::From the Future Weapons video I watched on the Kriss, it seems to have an average MP5 like rate of fire. But if IW does let the Kriss go all out, it'll be revenge of the pwned when people get a hold of it. Take that noob tubers! Have some .45 slugs in the face!--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Hey man, the noob tube is awesome.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::People who hates tubers are just gamers. Sure I get off when I get hit in the face by an M203, but hell, I use one too. It's a very good field weapon. In combat, there is no such thing as cheap shot. There's hit and miss. Even in games, if you killed a guy, it's a kill, doesn't matter how you did it, unless you used cheats, but I use the M203 all the time, and 2 shells is what you get in multiplayer, so quit complaining, those on the recieving end of my tube. Now the P90 was a widely used gun for noobs cause of it's high ROF and mag capacity and with the slight of hand perk, you can reload the faster than you could in real life[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::People who complain about tubes in modern games don't remember the days of real noob-tubes, back when the 203 was your alt fire, had realistically-sized splash and had a zero arming distance, and a newbie could easily end a game with a positive score just by firing it point-blank whenever they had more than one person in front of them. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 07:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
I agree i just hate the loss of a perk its better than juggernaut.--[[User:Panther61DC08|Panther61DC08]] 20:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::ANYTHING is better then juggernaut man. And yeah, I use the M203 from time to time, but people who use it constantly should really just go sit down.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Most online gamers are idiots who most likely don't know the difference between a bullet and a bolt carrier, so they're going to label anyone who kills them a [insert gun name here] noob. If you kill them with an M4, you're an M4 noob. If you kill them with a P90, you're a P90 noob. If you kill them with a shotgun, you're a shotgun noob. It never ends. The point of playing a game is to have fun, so I'm gonna use what I like to use (including the 203) regardless of what everyone else thinks about it. If I nail some tit in the face with a 40 mike-mike, they can whine and cry "noob tuber" all f'n day, it isn't going to change that I put a 40 mike-mike into their face. Only thing about me is that I can do it from a block away (an in-game block, I mean), rather than at point blank. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
:I have a Class that it's specialty is to piss people off. Yes, i am a asshole. BUT, i am a professional asshole.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As far as the Kriss goes they sure as hell have never fired it (which disappoints me that they put all these exotic weapons in that they really havent touched... in COD4 they actually fired most of the weapons and that gave it a level of authenticity) so i dont think they'll pay attention to the fact that it takes most of the recoil for you. when you fire it youll probably be shooting all over the place with heavy recoil -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
::Well looky here, an icon for picking up a "FAL Red Dot sight" In the Multiplayer trailer. There is a god, because the FN FAL has finally made it into an awesome game![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 05:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Kriss does seem to have a comparably short barrel to the UMP. IW could lower the damage due to the lower velocity? not sure what barrel length is ideal for .45ACP but I just thought that could be used as a reason to balance? that and the Kriss only uses the .45 Glock pistol mags correct? so maybe your attachment is an extended mag to help compete? -FuriousOyster<br />
<br />
:From what we've seen, the Kriss in MW2 is already being used with the experimental 26 round magazine currently being developed for the gun. As for barrel length, it's on par with the UMP, plus its shorter overall. Who knows, maybe IW will just make the Kriss what it is in real life, a hard and precise hitting sub machine gun. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Apparently IW got the Kriss right on how controllable it is when firing on full auto. It doesn't go all over the place. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The Vector is stunningly good. A bit down on power, but accurate and it can handle it's high ROF. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:Been unlocking the attachments for the Vector and it is kind of nerf on the power. It's really not the strong, but has a high rate of fire and accuracy [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== HK416? ==<br />
<br />
Possible HK416-<br />
<br />
The SAS guy with the Mohawk & Glock @ 0:30 of the reveal trailer seems to carry something resembling an HK416 (Notice the rear H&K hallmark diopter sights...).<br />
--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 15:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Thats actually Soap. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
that is either the M4 or M468(most likely an M4)<br />
<br />
Why would they add the HK 416? Internally it's far superior to the M4, but as far as video games go they're virtually the same.<br />
<br />
I hope they don't. It's not that I necessarily hate the HK416 (well, okay, maybe I do ''a little bit''), but let's give LWRC's or Colt's gas pistons some love. The 416 and XM8 are way overused in shooters today. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
:And the rear sight on Soap's M4 looks more like an ARMS #40L to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:Again, why do people think that when they see a cool looking AR15 in a game or a movie shot they RIGHT AWAY say, HK416 or M468 AKA REC7 as it is called now.? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::Because a lot of people are so fracking biased against DI guns that it's crazy. They're quick to tout the AK's widespread use as an example of its so-called "superiority", but that same argument means "absolutely nothing" to the same people when it's applied to the M4 and variants ''chosen'' by elite forces all over the planet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:34, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
yeah, i agree, it is ridiculous, especially since you can upgrade an m4 to perform exactly like any of the other new weapons and do it for a $1,000 cheaper. it makes you wonder why were even replacing the m4?<br />
:Same reason the army bought a new grenade launcher: It's shiny and new. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
Well you have to think about the old saying. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. But with weapon systems, they do get out dated and don't last forever. Eventually it's naturally to want to replace what you have now even though it's an effective piece of equipment that's served you for many years. Think back when the M16 was first introduced. It got so much crap from the old timers in the military that it took almost a decade to get it fielded. And now the M16 is a beloved icon of American power and loved by millions. Times change and so would weapons. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:55, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==FN P90==<br />
Why haven't anyone added the P90? It has been confirmed and in the E3 trailer there was a pickup icon for the P90 and it said "Press # to ick up P90"<br />
:Did you miss [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Modern_Warfare_2#FN_P90TR this?]-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Re-added ==<br />
Hey evryone Activision has decided to re-add the Call of Duty prefix back to the Modern Warfare 2 title making the game now being called: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, instead of just Modern Warfare 2? Actvision added the Call of Duty prefix because of the lowered awareness of the Call of Duty series [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 17:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:So we're changing the name again on this site? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The changing is not official yet. They're still calling the game "''Modern Warfare 2''" (source: [http://kotaku.com/5315981/infinity-ward-talks-modern-warfare-2-43-stories-up]). In fact, nobody at Activision or Infinty Ward ever called the game "''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2''", search any quotes you want. Also, the hardened and prestiges editions (collector versions) don't have "''Call of Duty''" on their boxes.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 14:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
i luv p-90 its awesome. i'v been playing modern warefare for one week now and what i did was i got bling pro(allows you to chose 2 perks) and i took a p-90 and put akimbo and rapid fire. its CRAZY. whenever your in close quarters with that combo, your invincibal.<br />
<br />
-evilmidget25<br />
<br />
ps il be online soon, its been three months and ill be back on chrismas<br />
<br />
== Walther WA2000 ==<br />
Does someone has an ingame picture of this game, because I doubt its presence in the game. And there is no use for a weapon to be listed if there is no proof.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I strongly concur with Phantom. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:16, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Behold, a really, really silly bundle: ==<br />
<br />
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=219720<br />
<br />
I can understand doing that for something like a ''Splinter Cell'' bundle (sorta), but... [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 08:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm so getting that... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
NVG's that max out to 50 feet, failll<br />
<br />
:*facedesk* Behold, NVGs for less then 200 with a $70 game and art book, Who wants to bet those are made by a company who's name you can't pronounce and is based in a country that rhymes with Dina? Anyhow, I already pre-ordered the standard game, I don't need fancy art books and hard cases and crappy NVGs, I just want what may be the best FPS ever created, period. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I'm don't want the nod to use, I just want them as a bad-@$$ display for the living room. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
== Cover Restoration ==<br />
Does anyone have any unique or expensive software to put this image on the front page?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Cover.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Original]]<br />
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Final.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The best I could do.]]<br />
<br />
It's not the standard edition box.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:06, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
== SPAS-12? ==<br />
Do you think this shotgun is a SPAS-12? Since we were shown that there is one in this level during a gameplay demo, it could be possible.<br />
[[Image:MW2shotgunspa.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
<br />
its a FAMAS- the folded bipod<br />
<br />
:Nope, it's a WA2000<br />
<br />
::The Walther WA2000 has a "skeletal" look to it and is a bolt-action sniper rifle. This image shows the weapon having a pump gauge at the bottom, meaning that it must be some sort of shotgun, as opposed to the WA2000's bolt-action. <s>Besides, I may be mistaken since I don't pay much attention to the FAMAS, but the last time I checked, the FAMAS didn't have a folding stock.</s> --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Sorry, I didn't see that you meant "bipod", not "stock". I don't see the point in the FAMAS having one of those, either. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's not a shotgun, the "handgrip" is too long to be a pump like you were saying, i agree with the fact that it is a WA2000, it has the same front end and flash hider as the walther. By the way, the walther can be either semi or bolt action.<br />
<br />
yeah i think its a Wa200 too, you can even see a fat ol' scope and a bipod on it. look real close for the scope.<br />
<br />
Now that I think about it, it looks more of a WA200, if not a SPAS-12, and it is definitely not a FAMAS. And please, fellas, sign your edits. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Confirmed Weapons ==<br />
Could someone tell me where those weapons were confirmed?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Which one?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::All of them. But if you can only confirm only one, then confirm the MD3.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::For the Imbel, I think it's almost sure. It has the look, it's Brazil... But it can still be a FAL... For the others like G36, Walter WA2000 or HK416, I will delete them until they provide us screenshots or other proofs that these weapons will be in the game. They think because modernwarfare247.com has listed them, it will be in the game but it's just a fansite, not an official one, and they don't have ingame screens to prove like us.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, the Imbel Makes sense to be in the game.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The forearm looks more like an Imbel than a FAL too.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Does this help on the FAL?<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Fal_online_vid.png<br />
[[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]]<br />
:HELL YES. Thank god there is a FAL in this. And, yes that helps on the FN FAL.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:53, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::So, it's almost sure that the weapons carried by the brazilians are FAL? I don't think they will include two weapons pretty identical... Unless they changed the rate of fire on each weapon much like the M4/M16 AR.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:02, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's the Imbel but Infinity Ward named it FN FAL. Like the AKMSU/AK-74S fuck up in Modern Warfare 1.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think its the fal, it looks like it uses a bigger magazine therefore a bigger round, the MD 3 uses 223, the fal uses 308<br />
::I noticed that too. It looks like a FN FAL with an 30 round magazine. But look at the Forearm. It looks like an MD-3 forearm to me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::But it could be based on the DSA SA-58, which has a shorter fore end, and curved .308 mags do exist. Either way though, a FAL in Mw2 is win in my books. Infact, here's a nice picture that may help that theory, [url]http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg[/url] [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Terribly disappointed that the 1911 is not used in multiplayer - JanG<br />
<br />
:Not just disappointing, it's a crime. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:54, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M4==<br />
<br />
The M4 used in the game had been confirmed as a Bushmaster M4. According to one of the guys working on MW2 he has told in the Call of Duty wikia that the M4 is a Bushmaster M4.... Could someone add that??<br />
<br />
:wheres the proof?<br />
<br />
::As of now, nothing can be added to the main article since there are no sources or evidence that provide the actual facts. Do you happen to have a link of the official statement? I think what he means is that the M4 (when mounted with sights or scopes) looks like a Bushmaster ORC (Optics-Ready Carbine), since it's rear and front sights are already removed. But just because it looks like it doesn't mean it has to be a Bushmaster. And again, guys, please sign your edits. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 21:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The M4 IS a Bushmaster! And proof is right here on IMFDB! I took this from the pic of Soap and enlarged it.<br />
<br />
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm97/SpartanWarrior198/Soap_Bushmaster_M4.jpg<br />
<br />
Snake logo on the mag well is Bushmaster's. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And I just noticed Soap is wearing US Army UCP, as well... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:So what? In this fictional universe, Bushmaster makes all the M4s? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, true, but this is a video game set in the near future. It could very well be possible that Bushmaster took over M4 production from Colt (since their exclusivity agreement expired back in June) in the Modern Warfare world.[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And I doubt IW would put two or more different identical "M4s" in the game. I can see an M4 and HK416 or REC7 put side-by-side in the game because there are some slight external differences (and caliber increase in the case of the REC7), but there'd be no point in having separate Colt and Bushmaster M4s, both virtually identical externally, at the same time. But then again the still above could very well be just promotional with a Bushmaster put in because it's all they had available to model. But we'll find out for sure Nov. 10th... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Hmm... Bushmaster may have used the Call of Duty franchise to advertise for their weapons, as seen on the lower receiver of the M4. Maybe likely, maybe not; but it is a possibility. Cheers, --{{User:Blemo/Sig}}<br />
::::HK did it with R6, so why can't Bushmaster do it with MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1887==<br />
<br />
No way this is a winchester 1887, you have to out of your mind to think that.<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:MW2Winch1887.jpg<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Winchester1887shotgun.jpg<br />
<br />
yeah dude there's one in there, it must be like a cheat code to get it but there is a picture.<br />
<br />
I dought you need a cheat code to get it as the enemy you can kill and take their weapons have it. <br />
Also it could be the Chinese copy.<br />
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
There was a ''Public Ennemies'' version of the weapon which was closer to the one in the screenshot, but it has been deleted.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I think it would be peculiar to have the old lever shotgun in MW2, but definitely a cool choice of gun. It may not be the fastest or most powerful, but it has nostalgia and cool to it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It could be like the Stg-44 from COD4, a retro weapon. <br />
It was called MP44 in Cod4 not Stg-44 that was in W@W just trying to help. -FuriousOyste<br />
: The MP44/StG-44 was only in CoD4 as a nod to the other games in the franchise which are all set during WW2. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Maybe you can unlock Price's mustache as a nod to his awesomely awesome mustache from MW1? =D -FuriousOyster<br />
<br />
Since IW seem to be going along the "fun" route while still sticking to a semi-realism point of view, it's probably safe to assume this was added as a "fun gun". It's likely with the recent videos of the "Flag Runner" and the addition of throwing knives there adding weapons that no serious soldier would use in direct combat but would be awesome to use a video game multiplayer match. It's possible they added it as a reference to Terminator 2, I wonder if they'll add the M79 and a portable minigun... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:11, 02 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There should be two reload animations. The first one you reload normally but in the second one you reload like the T-600, With one goddamm hand.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That was only chambering fresh rounds, not reloading it, but I see your poit. Either way though, having an old school lever action shotty will surely make things, uh, interesting? And throwing knives will just attract goddamn ninjas. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ninjas that I'll gladly lay waste to in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Amen to that man, they can throw all the knives they want, but that won't stop them from taking a burst of FAL rounds in the chest. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"Those who live by the sword get shot by the ones who don't". Ninja's were cowards anyways. They retreated rather than fought most of the time-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:05, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Not to mention that was against bows and arrows, not automatic rifles. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
for the reload animations I think the shells are being loaded in to the barrel!!<br />
<br />
:No my friend, thats just how you load a lever shotgun. The tube you load the shells in to is the magazine, and the tube below it is where they eject from when you cock the gun after a shot. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Don't debate on the articles ==<br />
<br />
Stop debating on the page do it in here that's what it is for.<br />
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am confused you say not to debate here but then you say to debate here. I am new to this.<br />
::Jake, can you speak english?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I mean don't debate on the main page with the articles it clutters it.--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 05:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::What Jake means, is that to hold all disputes, comments, and debates on the discussion (talk) page, instead of the article itself. The page you are looking at is the talk page and you should type any comments on this page. If you look at the top, there are seven tabs (varies on your status and monobook of the wiki), but for more users, it says, "page, discussion, edit, +, history, move, & watch". Make sure the "discussion" tab is pressed before you make your edit. Typing in the tab that says "page" makes the article look unprofessional and a hassle to read. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 21:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::I'll move all the discussion here...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 13:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Glock ==<br />
The GameTrailers Analysis states that it is a [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22]], but this is unconfirmed. It could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] since in the video demo shown at the E3 conference, it fires fully automatically. <br />
[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] - 9x19mm. This model has compensator cuts on the slide and barrel to reduce muzzle climb while firing]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Glock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A [[Glock]] fired by "Roach" on a snowmobile in Mission "Cliffhangar". Note olive-drab frame.]]<br />
[[Image:MW2SpOpGlock.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This US special ops has a olive-drab framed Glock in his thigh holster (barely off-shot).]]<br />
<br />
*An interesting note is that the Glock fires dramatically slower than a Glock 18 or other converted Glocks. The Glock from the video's rate of fire is only around 600-700 RPM, where as a real Automatic Glock fires around 1100+ RPM -- Mythekal<br />
<br />
:The guy COULD just be firing in semi VERY fast so that it seems like it's full auto. A lot of the handguns in COD4 if you tap the trigger in quick successions, it seems almost full auto [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". Glock 18's did not have this color available. Glock 22's just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a Glock 18 with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.<br />
<br />
:::Not to disagree with you, I mean, you strike a really good point, but I've seen video game companies butcher their weapons into having colors or functions that they don't even have in the first place. Perhaps this is the case, although highly unlikely. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:08, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not sure if anybody noticed, but the G18s in game does not have a selector switch - JanG<br />
<br />
== H&K USP .45 ==<br />
Shown in a stage demo for GameSpot, Roach wields it with a knife at the same time. There is a similar technique where you do this with a flashlight. If someone would care to name it please do as I forgot for the moment.<br />
<br />
*Take your pick from CQC, CQB, Combatives or Defendu. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
** The particular technique shown below with the support arm under the wrist of the main arm indexing the flashlight along the axis of the barrel is called the Harris Method. In this case it's being done with a knife presumably because it looks cool.<br />
*** It's actually done for CQC and not just cause it looks cool. A similar method to this is what Snake does on MGS.But he holds the Knife with the gun by the grips.Perhaps the Harries method is more comfortable than Snake's CQC method,so they made it that way.<br />
**** <br />
[[Image:HK-USP.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch USP .45 ACP. Note the slightly longer barrel/slide and grip compared to the 9mm and .40 S&W models above.]]<br />
[[Image:USP_with_knife.JPG|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
== Akimbo ==<br />
<br />
*Need some confirmation on this as I cant find any videos or images of this, supposedly the player is now able to Dual wield or go Akimbo with Pistols, particularly twin desert eagles were seen in a demonstration during a show off session to fans. <br />
<br />
This is one of the websites with this article:<br />
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/08/27/modern-warfare-2-has-guns-akimbo/1<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
<br />
:There was a screenshot of the Desert Eagle being held akimbo during a gameshow in Vegas (the name of which I forgot...) I'm not sure if it was already added to the article, but I'll take a look. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Now Akimbo? I'm having less and less faith in this new game with most of these cliche shit added on. We got too many kinds of new guns enough to put Rainbow Six to shame, odd matches for people and prototype guns in wide use. This game went from pretty cool to up down cliche generic shooter. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Leaked Video ==<br />
<br />
Found this video while searching the net on youtube. <br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FuwFT4p5hA<br />
<br />
At 1:28 there appears to be a new weapon, it looks like it says "Shotgun" but the video is low qaulity and I'm having a hard time finding out what it is? The icon image looks similar to that of a Saiga shotgun but I'm not sure. From the looks of it, the IMI Mini Uzi will be making a return.<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
[[Image:Mw2brazilshotgun.png]] I think it says (litterally) "FAL w/ Shotgun"... Shotgun attachment?!--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
MASTERKEY! that would be awesome! on the other hand... COD4 shotguns were pretty pointless. so I doubt an even shorter barreled one would be worth it.<br />
<br />
:Yeah, there have been rumors of an under-slung shotgun attachment. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That does surely say FAL with Shotgun, as it matches the shape of the other FAL seen in a trailer, sweet! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
also confirmed in game masterkey is avalible -scarecrow<br />
<br />
== Continuity Error(??) ==<br />
<br />
Perhaps, in the E3 Gameplay video, the Infinity Ward boyz made a continuity error. If you will, note that Roach is first seen using a USP .45, but later, on the snowmobile, he switches to a Glock 18/22/whatever. Just a thought.<br />
<br />
:Doubt it. games arn't that sloppy. Its probably given to you when you board the snowmobile because firing a semiautomatic weapon while you are going pretty fast wouldn't help much unless you have a very steady hand. better to have a wide spread than accuracy when you cant predict the enemy that well. [[user:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
::Well apparently you are able to equip 3 weapons?, but that still wouldn't explain how he got that glock.<br />
<br />
:::What 5t3v0 says is true. Video game developers aren't that sloppy and I think that the publishers purposefully made this so-called "continuity error". I think that the Glock is for use only for the snowmobile portion of the mission, since its high rate of fire (compared to the HK USP .45) is more ideal for tracking and shooting fast-moving vehicles. Many other video games during their vehicle missions use the same logic (i.e. a mounted machine gun on the snowmobile in [[007: Nightfire]]). --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::There's one on each of the snowmobiles, There's a holster somewhere.<br />
<br />
Okay first of all, i know you know its just a game, so thats my first statement, and my second is, who says you cant have another holster on you, one on your thigh, one on your rig, or two on both your thighs? and then you either have access to it in the game or you dont, and we can all pretend like roach just doesnt want to use it until the snowmobile thing or something like that.<br />
<br />
== New mw video ==<br />
<br />
Gentlemen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4PMRFkx07g<br />
<br />
<br />
Damn, the MP5K Looks SWEET! And throwing knives? kick-ass!!! man as soon as this is released im disowning my copy of COD4.<br />
<br />
== Double Barrel Shotty ==<br />
<br />
According to the guys over at the COD Wiki, the Double barrel shotgun will make a return(from COD5), has anyone else seen this?<br />
<br />
* It's possible with the inclusion of other "fun" weapons like the Winchester M1887 and Throwing knives, but I'm not going to get my hopes up about it... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:18, 02 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:Try not to include wiki as a source unless there's pics of the actual shotgun ingame. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:41, 2 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The OXM stated that (Official Xbox Magazine). The DB shotgun will have separate trigger for each barrel.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:44, 3 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::You said it will make a return, it never was in cod4, or are you referring to cod5? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 15:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Sorry, shouldve been a little clearer, i was referring to cod5<br />
<br />
== Mk14 Rifle ==<br />
<br />
The Mk14 on the screenshot is not a Mk14 Mod0 battle rifle but a Mk14 Mod1 ([http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/albums/closeup/Mk_14_Mod_1.jpg]), the second modification. Still based on the M14/M1A battle rifle/semi-auto rifle, but using M4 grip and stock with the EBR chassis. The version used by soaped also seems to sport a Magpul MOE stock with cheek rest.<br />
<br />
Now that I see that new picture on the page with the mk14 in it I think that it is also a mod 1. Who else is thinks so?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
== Highrise Gameplay videos (Cam) ==<br />
<br />
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/modern-warfare-2/11043<br />
<br />
Just saw this today, the "trailer" section also has a trailer cam of a predator missile and a supply drop, it also shows off the UMP45.<br />
<br />
The newer highrise videos show a few weapons in the game that would now be deemed confirmed to a degree. It's labelled 1 through 5 in parts. They all feature different guns, I remember seeing two icons, one which was thought to be a place holder, the L85 was displayed as the L86 LSW (maybe an attachment for the L85?) including a PP-2000 Akimbo. Other's include various MG's which I can't identify, a SPAS-12 shotgun in full view (with appropriate icon) and the FAMAS and UMP.<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The videos from Gametrailers also seem to show a silenced SPAS 12, which should be fun. <br />
<br />
[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:14, 16 September 2009<br />
<br />
== New video confirms a few weapons==<br />
<br />
A few weapons are probably confirmed by this video from Screwattack, PP-2000 amongst them.<br />
http://www.screwattack.com/Events/MW2HandsOn<br />
[[User:DAnnysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 14:39, 16 September 2009<br />
<br />
:Just from watching, I saw the FAMAS, RPD, M4, SCAR, PP2000, AT4 (now a weapon not a perk, and more.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] <br />
00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
everything in the game is now content locked. that means any weapon seen will be in the final game<br />
<br />
happy hunting<br />
<br />
==Zombie Mode==<br />
<br />
Any idea if theyll have one?<br />
<br />
No they wont. Instead they have a spec-ops mode. Besides, its not cool of Infinity ward to copy treyarchs thing. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]<br />
<br />
Yeah, especially when Treyarch has made an entire career out of copying Infinity Ward<br />
<br />
== Create A Class Menu ==<br />
<br />
Several weapons,perks, and attachments have now been confirmed in a new video's on youtube including [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], [[PP-2000]], [[M79 grenade launcher]], [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]], [[RPD light machine gun]], [[Franchi SPAS-12]] and much more. <br />
<br />
Source: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s]<br />
<br />
[[Image:CreateAClass.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Create a Class Menu.]]<br />
<br />
== Infamy (New Trailer) ==<br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8toHfZm6jNE<br />
<br />
The Guy in the Airport wearing a black suit (presumably this Makarov character) looks like he was carrying a SCAR-L but then I noticed the RIS rails to which it was just a regular M4. It was weird how they made look very similar to the SCAR-L, yet at 1:31 in the Infamy trailer there's a guy with outline of the SCAR-L. It looks like the "Mini-Uzi" is now confirmed to be apart of the machine pistol lineup of weapons. Also does anyone think the AK at 0:57 looks odd? Kinda looks to me like a AN-94. - [[Draco122|Draco122]] 07:07 05 October 2009<br />
<br />
*The weapon Makarov was holding looked like an M4 to me, but I think your right about the Mini-Uzi being a machine pistol now. And as for the AK it looked like the rest of the AKs I've seen from ingame pictures and footage. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 20:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The guy is holding an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Russian tactical team that responded to the airport attack were referred by Makarov as FSBs. Even though they did deploy from SWAT vans marked as FSB, the Russian soldiers actually wear MVD uniforms, meaning that they were actually interior troops.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 18:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wall of guns ==<br />
<br />
Just got this off of Gametrailers TV. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[Image:MW2wallofguns.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
*Too late, man.)<br />
<br />
== Sentry Gun ==<br />
<br />
On Gamesrader.com, an article on the impressions of MW2, mentions a Sentry Gun in the Kill Streak list. After doing some research, I've found a supposed concept of the Sentry Gun on Modernwarfare247.com. Apparently it seems to be the XM312 .50Cal fitted with a Camera. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[Image:Leaked-mw2-art-book-12.jpg|300px|thumb|none|XM312]]<br />
<br />
<br />
maybe its a .50BMG on a CROWS-type system<br />
<br />
:The Sentry Gun in the game is an M134 on a tripod, as I've used some in MP. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Screenshot==<br />
<br />
The first two are Scars, the second has a Masterkey, the third with an ACOG doesnt quite look right, and I cant tell what the digital one is, any help?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Mw2scars.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
<br />
The two on the right might be ACR's--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 03:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The digital one is the bushmaster ACR. It looks a little funny but that is it.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
== W2000 ==<br />
<br />
I'm not 100% certain on this, but isn't the W2000 a collector's sniper rifle? I mean this is a rather expensive sniper rifle made as a colector's rifle. So why would the military be using it in whatever war this game takes place in?<br />
<br />
And we're supposed to know the thought process behind Infinity Ward's weapon decisions how?<br />
<br />
Remember the game black where w2000s were just laying all over eastern europe?<br />
<br />
:Yeah, ever since Black came out, WA2000s have been known to be laying all across Europe, ripe for the picking! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Haha Agent 47 spends thousands of dollars just to maintain one yet European armies can buy millions of them just to lay around randomly :P<br />
<br />
From my play through, I can only find one. The one you see on the wall of guns picture.<br />
<br />
I've seen them in several missions. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Unfocused ==<br />
<br />
This game is looking more and more gimmicky by the day. It's as if they're going all out to jam as much modern technology into the game as possible, whether it makes sense or not. Brazilian militia with FN F2000 assault rifles? Russian terrorists with the TDI Vector? ''Really''? --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 08:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's true that I feel the game is adding so much new stuff it won't be anything like CoD4. It bothers me that Infinity Ward is going over the top just because of its huge fanbase.<br />
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
For those of you who have seen "Lord of War", remember Nicolas Cage's quote: "Where there's a will, there's a weapon." I'm sure that their theory for the MW2 universe is that some FN or TDI salesmen forgot who they were working for, and sold their latest & greatest weapons to the bad guys, and got paid more in a day or two than they would earn working for a decade. I believe that money is the most corrupting force on Earth. Also, I do recall a story about some F2000s winding up in the hands of a militia in East Timor a few years ago, and I'm not sure whether or not FN figured out how they got there. <br />
-KLR<br />
:I've heard of this happening with a custom M14 maker. One of their people was rebuilding some MK14Mod0 on the side and smuggling them to the phillipines if i rememger correctly. The man was caught and is spending a long vacation is club fed. --[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As much as I agree that the weapons are going a little crazy (how the hell do Brazilians in the slums of Rio get their hands on such powerful NATO weaponry?), remember this game isn't set in the present day, its sometime in 2016 I think. So who knows, in that year the rarer weapons of today may be more widely available. Unlikely I know, but possible. [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 10:45, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And besides, the game would be very boring if everyone had AK's. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not exactly. Im not liking the whole high end weapons idea for militia. I would have been fine seeing militia using ak variants and other common battle rifles. --[[User:mythekal|mythekal]]<br />
<br />
You must remember that all gangs in Rio get majority of there weapons from buying over seas and from corrupt military and police units, who themselves have stockpiles of powerful NATO weapons (M4s, AKs, FNs,etc.). And the Brazilian militia's leader is an Arms Dealer who has ties with the Ultranationalists, any Arms dealer that big can afford to give his men some much more flashier weapons! Also this is just a game too!--[[User:Choi117|Choi117]]<br />
<br />
In the first game the russians had g36cs, ak-47s, m9s and 1911s, not like, ak-74s and makarovs. In this they seem to have gone to just having tacticool bullpups and high-end everything.....I laugh if you pick p an m9 in brazil even though your infinitely more likely to get a taurus pt92.<br />
<br />
<br />
One aspect of Modern Warfare 2 is notably the fact, that although not identified by developers, is the way in which the worlds runs, MONEY!, believe it or not but the American government has been dealing arms for years, all to up there pay check, the result is quite devastating, its give there own troops a disadvantage but what do they care money's, money, they would give nuclear weapons to iraq if there was enough money.<br />
<br />
:Actually, the American government deals arms mainly to friendly nations and used to deal arms to CIA backed insurgencies. So, you know, they wouldn't be selling things like NUKES you moron. As far as the purchase of these weapons, just consider Mexico today: You have a 'military' (if you can really call the Mexican Army a military) where 250,000 soldiers have left to work for a drug cartel or just left the country, leaving their rifles with the cartels. Then you have those same cartels buying firearms from third world SA countries that were provided firearms by the US for insurgencies. Then you have cartels buying firearms from people very similar to Cage's character in Lord of War. In 2016, it's more than believable taht those dealers could be selling ill-gotten FN2000's to wherever they damn well please.<br />
<br />
I think that they are adding all of these guns because after Zakheav died the ultranationalists kinda fell apart and now they use anything they get their hands on so some of their guys probably decided too buy their own guns and thought they might as weel go big.<br />
<br />
- If you think this game is unfocused you haven't seen the 25 kill streak perk yet! A Freaking Tactical Nuke, I'm not joking: http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/modern-warfare-2-25th-killstreak/333858[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
That idea makes the game sound more ridiculous than it already is. This is way over the top now.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Can someone explain what "in egoview" means? pictures have the caption something like "the SPAS-12 in egoview " somethign like that. Is it suposed to mean first-person view, only written by someone with poor english?<br />
: Presumably it refers to First-Person view. If you look, all the HUD text in those shots is in German. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M21 EBR ==<br />
<br />
Just to make sure no one changes it back. Even though it doesn't technically exist, that is what its called in game. The logic behind the name is: M21 (Sniperized M14) + M14 EBR (Modernized M14) = Modernized Sniperized M14 = M21 EBR<br />
<br />
Alright, to be blunt, I LOVE the M14. Whenever I used one in Call of Duty 4, it was like the second coming of Jesus Christ. I just got done reading that the M14 used in this game is, as said above, a M21 EBR, and is classified as a sniper rifle. When I found that out I was extremely pissed. What I don't get though, is that in the Breach and Clear video that is out there, there is clearly a Mk. 14, with open iron sights. Based on all of this bullcrap, it appears that you will not be able to use the M14/Mk.14 EBR/M21 EBR/or-whatever-the-heck-we-are-calling-it without a scope. I am aware that MW2 is somehow sneaking out into people's Xbox's already, and I would greatly appreciate if someone could elaborate on this?[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 00:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Putting a scope on a Mark 14 doesn't change its designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:52, 8 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
Been checking with various sources on M14's and this M21 EBR is just an M14 fitted into a Sage Stock. it's nothing more than the numerous M14's I've seen used as a DMR.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:35, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I say we just stick with calling it Mark 14 Mod 1 and note in the description that its in-game name is M21 EBR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And, while I've not yet played MP, every instance of Mark 14 use in SP refers to it as "M14 EBR". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:03, 11 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It's officially called the M21 EBR in MP. However a friend of mine tells me when fitted with an ACOG it makes for an alright assault type rifle. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::Still a Mark 14 as far as this site is concerned. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::And what pisses me off the most is that besides the scope and smaller magazine. it's a Mark 14 EBR. Why IW decided to turn it into a sniper is beyond me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::::I'd imagine they did it for balance, can't have a sniper rifle with a 20 shot magazine. Unless you get extended mags then maybe it might be better I dont know [[Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
::::::I don't see how that's supposed to balance anything. 20 round magazine or not, a sniper rifle is still a sniper rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::How much of a bump does extended mags do for the EBR anyhow? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
::::::::I haven't gotten them yet myself, but I'll let you know when I do. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 17 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Two new videos ==<br />
This is the level you get for beating the game.<br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhjh8KxFPkg<br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czJEO8skB64<br />
<br />
Damn good videos, I'll have a lot of fun with that museum :D Does this mean theres not going to be any semi-auto assualt rifles? Everything seems to be full auto in those videos...:( [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 19:38, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
in the video description it says that the person playing was using rapid fire.<br />
<br />
They likely removed the use of the G3 and M14 from Multiplayer due to people using the modified controllers to enable rapid firing, though I remember seeing that "Rapid Fire" was being made as an Attachment for weapons, not something I'd imagine seeing in singleplayer [[Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
:An added note about the "Museum" level is a button on the front desk. Press it and all the soldiers in the exhibits come alive and try to kill you! Good fun if you stock up from the weapons cases first. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Wow, Dual wielding all subguns?==<br />
<br />
watched video of dual mp5ks and p90s........wtf is wrong here?<br />
<br />
Where is this video?<br />
<br />
:Even worse, I heard it was possible to dual wield shotguns. [citation needed] Yeah, ordinarily I wouldn't just put that out there without a source, but given all the other stupid decisions IW have been making lately, I can believe it. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 01:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
you dual wield sawn off doubles, its showed in museum gameplay.<br />
<br />
:Wouldn't firing a sawed off one handed dislocate your shoulder?-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not necessarily, but that doesn’t mean it is the smartest way to shoot a firearm. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 05:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
You know what this means, every noob on the planet will be duel wielding in MW2 like it's Halo 3 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:23, 7 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Meh, who cares? Yeah, I think dual wielding is an action movie cliche, too, but I'll just play the game the way I want and everyone else will do the same. It most likely won't be long until people are whining and crying about "dual wield noobs" like they do about so-called "noob-tubers". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah, i use a noob tube on one of my classes myself, it may piss people off, but snipers piss me off. Besides, its not like the noob toob is good in close quarters, it only holds two rounds and has slow ass reloads. I use mine to countersnipe when they try and hide behind cover.<br />
<br />
:I only use noob tube when coming up against a map with lots of trenches or caves or buildings, the better to lob nades into. I prefer the ACOG in MW2, as now it doesn't suck like in CoD: 4 [[Special:Contributions/142.166.195.174|142.166.195.174]] 18:08, 11 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Anyone who cries about what weapons, perks, or attachments another player is using needs to either learn how to adapt to the environment and opposition or quite playing multi-player altogether. "ZOMG! He killed me with a grenade launcher! Not fair! Waaah waaah waaah!" Some people just need to grow the feck up and stop being pansies. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:49, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I agree. the M203 is a useful tool. so are shotguns, i was sick of hearing "SHOTGUN NOOB!" after the first time i heard it. now this is just an opinion but when indoors and within the effective range, i dont think theres a better weapon. they provide a large spread pattern that can be useful in high stress situations. im not saying you dont have to aim a shotgun at close range, but neutralizing a threat can be easier with with buckshot (defense loads) than with a single slug from a pistol or rifle. in my opinion there is no "noob" weapon. when they are all used properly, each individual weapon serves a specific purpose. cheap tactics is what makes a bad player in my eyes. someone who uses a high capacity weapon (P90, Light Machine Gun) while sitting in one spot picking off players who are trying to have fun and play "right" just ruins the expirience for everyone else. and in my expirience these "campers" are the ones who cry like babies when THEY get dead at the hands of a P90 or shotgun. but thats just my opinion.--[[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] 17:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I don't particularly think ''any'' tactic is cheap (nor any weapon a "noob" weapon), no matter how "unfair" an advantage one thinks it gives. Some tactics are just simply more successful than others. The fact is that MW2 is a '''war''' game, and so goes the old saying ''all's fair in love and war''. If a machine gun camper kills me, so what? I'll just respawn and continue with the game. But that's the point, it's a ''game''. Some people take games way too seriously. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:For me, my response to ppl calling others and me campers or sniper whore, noob tuber. I just reply "It's a legitimate strategy". Don't get mad, get EVEN. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:50, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Totally agree. I mean, I could possibly be wrong, but isn't "camping" essentially what snipers and machine gunners ''actually do'' in real life? I know it was last time I checked... And I sure as heck wouldn't want an M40A5 to clear a room with. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:07, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RIOT SHIELD ==<br />
<br />
Just played the game and i have to admit the riot shield is the most fun weapon to use in multi-player. Bashing enemies to death is extremely gratifying. - JanG<br />
<br />
<br />
i love when people use it, theyre easier to kill. Especially with the knife. If you are anywhere but directly in front of them they cant block it.<br />
<br />
-k9870<br />
<br />
That, sticky grenades, and powerful caliber fmj weapons are the only thing that can break through the shield - JanG<br />
<br />
:A WELL AIMED grenade from an M203 would take a guy with a shield out[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Unless the guy has a Blast Shield (explosive resistant face mask) equipped, he won't die unless it's a direct impact from a 40mm. He'll even survive sticky grenades on his shield. I've survived plenty with a Blast Shield on when I've got a Riot Shield. Half the time though, after a hit with a 40mm I'm near death anyway even with a Blast Shield on and usually the guy still has a second shot [[Draco122|Draco122]] 17:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Hitting the shield with a 40mm won't kill the guy, the trick is to hit just behind or under him, launching his ass into the air. also FMJs work well, as do Semtex grenades. I myself use Marathon, Lightweight and Commando with my Riot Shield, as well as blast shield and an AA-12 for sticky situations. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Semi Auto only FAL==<br />
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:39, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The only Thing I could think to defend it is in The Falklands War both the UK and Argentina used the FAL. Which the UK used their L1A1 in single fire only, the Argentinian Army had theirs on Automatic, which Military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun. I've never fired one, but in the game I like the controlled fire of the FAL, of it would just fire like another AK.-Km314<br />
:But it shoots way too slowly ingame to be of much use. They should have made it shoot in bursts of 2-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::From what I experienced in Multiplayer, it's powerful, it would be way to powerful if it was full auto, I think Infinity ward was going for a thing like they did in CoD4 with the G3. 1:21, 13 November 2009<br />
<br />
I think they purposely brought down single fire rate to keep people from using modded controllers too. The g3 would fire as fast as you pulled the trigger, and anyone with a modded controller had an unfair advantage. The FAL is a true single shot, mods or not. I like it.<br />
<br />
To whoever said "military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun", I believe one person on the Military Channel does not count as "military expert'''S''' <br />
Just look at this guy: he's not shooting down any planes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1q8GiSIdc<br />
<br />
If anything, the FAL with an ACOG makes a great DMR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I dunno whats with all the fuss, I love the FAL in MW2. Sure auto would have been fun, but it's hugely accurate and powerful, not to mention long ranged. A Holo sight makes it a perfect AR, and an ACOG pretty much makes it competition for the EBR. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
But I think I wish it's like in Rainbow Six where you can switch firing modes. The first 2 Call of Duty games did that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
:Yeah, and I sort of expected firing mode switches in MW2, but I guess not. But really, the FAL would be ridiculous on full-auto man. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Tacticool-ness ==<br />
Well, this game is awesome and all, but i hate the fact that they made it to be a HALO knock-off. Dual wielding? Glock 18s? God, this there ever going to be a game that gets Special Ops right? -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
:No, because the average person doesn't know dick about guns or the military-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 02:25, 18 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I really thought that it would be a badass fucking game, which it is, but they made it just too fucking...tacticool. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
Its what happens when they cater to mall ninjas, dual g18s, dual deegs, dual sawn offs.... and the plot made no sense. Price launching a nuke, sheperd going bad, i love how the start of the game has sheperd just standing there without body armor in a war zone where the loliest terrorist could pick him off.... k9870[[User:K9870|K9870]]<br />
<br />
: Wouldn't you find a guy who uses .44 magnum in a modern war to be very cocky and arrogant? -[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]]<br />
::True, but some Generals do carry Colt 1911A1s and the such. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:No, anyone who can get a M1911 Authorized carries one-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 20:35, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
But most generals of today, especially a Lieutenant General would NOT be standing out on the front lines or strongly recommended not to. What is a Lt. General doing in Afghanistan anyway? The game also took out a lot of the old guns in the previous MW game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:38, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Not to mention they chose what's essentially a wallhanger sniper rifle (WA2000) over a number of battle-proven designs (M24, M110, even the L96A1 that Counter-Strike players seem to be so in love with). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:15, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would rather use my Winchester 88, shooting Hornady Custom .308's, over any of those rifles-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree that the WA2000 was a Stupid choice. That rifles has custom wood stocks and high quality handbuilt precision, and isn't meant for combat use. The only non magnum or anti-material sniper is the M21 EBR, which has a wrongly animated 20-round mag that only holds ten rounds. They dropped the M40, R700 and Dragunov, and gave beginners the Barrett .50 cal. I'm not the best sniper, but I wouldn't have minded a nice bolt action rifle thats not chambered in a massive round. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::No, Dragunov is still in the game. As far as dropping the M40, it would seem logical to do so considering there are no US Marines in MW2. And having the R700 as a separate weapon than the M40 was just pointless, IMO. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::The Dragunov being in single player doesn't count. Why build it into the game and not add it to multiplayer? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::::Probably the same reason the M40A3 in CoD4 was restricted to MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:13, 18 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Glock 18 with red dot ==<br />
Hey if anybody plans to use a G18 with a red dot sight without a silencer I just wanted to tell you that using a G18 in this configuration is a bad idea, the muzzle flash of the gun on full-auto is so large that it actually blocks the view of the dot so much that you can barely see the dot<br />
:Glock 18s were already a bad move. and put three ~ at the end of your text to show your name. like so: -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
::I have to agree, without the silencer used the G18s muzzle flash ruins your sight picture, not to mention it has zero range and horrid accuracy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
Ok thanks for telling me how to put my name on a page, and the G18 is an ok gun, I mean the gun tisn't that accurate when you do a full clip 33 round burst, but it is a good close quarters gun because you can hose down an enemy in about two seconds, and I sometimes use it to pin down other players because they think that I am using an MG and when the gun runs out of ammo and they jump out of cover I spray them with a real MG. [[User:Korean war marine]]<br />
<br />
I use it for close quarters only, with usually a UMP or Vector to back it up in case I need some accuracy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
Glock 18s don't use clips, they use magazines. And I agree with Winchester and M14fanboy, Glock 18 (along with Desert Eagle and Magnum revolver) was a bad choice. Heck, I'd take a Mark 23 over any of them in a combat op any day. They should put in actual ''combat pistols'', not mall ninja favorites. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:They also removed the 1911 from multiplayer. That is just bull shit. I was hoping for a P226 or something from SIG since we got so many British characters or Browning Hi-powers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:30, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I had Hi-Power hopes as well, or possible the 226. But a Colt Anaconda and Desert Eagle, I thought this was military, not ghetto. The only good handguns really are the USP and the M93R, which is like a mini-M16. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::I've said this before and I'll say it again that this is a ''war'' game, so they should have dropped the Desert Eagle, Anaconda, and Glock 18 for actual ''combat pistols'' like the aforementioned Hi-Power, 226, and 1911. Heck, I even had hopes that that new Russian service pistol (MR-446 Grach, I think it's called) would make an appearance, but my hopes were all for naught. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I know man, it's dperessing to see a WAR game with nothing but stupid magnum handguns firing ridicilously large rounds. Theres a total of two legit combat pistols, the USP and M9, and while I haven't used the USP I can say the M9 is shite. DLC pistols pl0x! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Is it just me ==<br />
<br />
or does infinity ward think all firearms in the near future will have a bunch of Picatinny rails on them?<br />
<br />
:They just watch too many movies. But then again a lot of issued guns now do have rails. That's how the Marines Corp get their M4s and M16A4s now [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::All firearms in the near future (aside from oddballs like the XM8) ''will'' have Picatinny rails. Modularity is the wave of the future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually if you look the extra rails are for the heartbeat sensor attatchment, which goes midway along the left side of all the guns its on. The UMP and P90 have them even though SMGs can't have that attachment, so obviously they were going to at some point in development.<br />
<br />
== ACOG "off" after EMP among other things. ==<br />
<br />
Ok, I get the fact that all electronics that were turned on would have been knocked out after the EMP struck, but...when I picked up a rifle with an ACOG, the lights were out, leaving only a black reticule, which is bullshit because ACOGs don't work like that. They are not battery powered and as such would not be affected by the EMP. I also find it hard to believe that none of the soldiers had flashlights that were most likely turned off during EMP. Another nit-pick is that your weapon after the EMP was an M4 with an EOtech mounted on it. Why couldn't the creators have your character just flip up the iron sights? You had to pick up an entirely different M4, also coincidentally like yours with an M203, with iron sights up for that kinda of thing. <br />
<br />
This is one of the many minor lazy details they could have done. Like for the ACR. I know for a FACT that the ACR's bolt release switch is in front of the trigger. It was designed so when you insert a fresh mag, all you have to do is press forward on the release right in front of the trigger! But instead, if you are empty, you insert new mag and then with your FIRING HAND, take it off the pistol grip and pull the charging handle back! One, no soldier would is RIGHT handed would taken their trigger hand off the grip unless they need it to fix a malfunction. They would use their NON firing hand to pull the charging handle since the charging handle and in fact the entire RIFLE was built for both hands to operate. But no, IW wanted us to waste precious seconds to see the wrong hand pull the charging handle. I got shot so many times using the ACR when I am empty completely because I can't just press the bolt catch with my trigger finger as the gun was DESIGNED to! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
To add more fuel to the rant fire, the Glock 18 is an ok gun, I'll admit that in small bursts. But when you reload, you don't press the slide release, which would make getting back into action faster, but instead you're treated to your character pulling the slide back! This is only good for range shooting a Glock, since the slide release is pretty weak, factory wise, but in combat, pulling back the slide takes too much time, in fact, there's a couple seconds delay when reloading an empty Glock. That's why I try to not reload empty weapons. Always mid magazine change. It'll save fustraions for you watching your character take his damn time reloading and doing unneeded things like pulling the slide back or in the ACR's case, use right hand instead of left hand instead of pressing trigger finger forward. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
And even MORE nitpicking. Look at how they attached the M203 on a Tavor in the game! I've seen what an M203 with a Tavor looks like in real life and it works ergonomicially but the way IW did it in this game makes it look stupid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
its a game and just about every gamer you come across wont know about weapons like i have been telling people about the screw ups and they said if they did not give it a name they would have just called the m93r a machine pistol and most people i know call assault rifles machine guns. -scarecrow<br />
<br />
yeah I too noticed on the ACR how they made the unnecessary action of charging it and all that when, like they did with the SCAR and M4, they could just push bolt release, which would probably decrease reload time in the game. but hey, maybe the did it cause it would "look cool" - Whatsagun<br />
<br />
:Well at least for the M4 and SCAR, they are slapping the bolt release on the side of the gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Seriously, no one else noticed how the M4 was modeled on Semi?-protoAuthor 03:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The M203 in this game is based on an RIS-mounted airsoft replica. [http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/wp-content/uploads/2007/NewshotsofCASCARM203fromVisele_1022A/DSC021252.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:31, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Back to the mocked up Glock 18, I think all videos on youtube never show full auto Glock's reloading. Just one magazine and "The End". But there was this one video on youtube called 298 rounds in full auto and it showed this guy with a mocked up Glock 18 not using the slide release lever, just pulling back the slide. With this video close to 5,000,000 views it's quite obvious IW got there ideas from that video.<br />
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI Glock 298 rounds in full auto]<br />
<br />
:In response to that, I keep saying that most people target shooting with a lot of their guns would pull back the slide instead of pressing the slide release because every time they press down on it, it degrades it more and more. In a combat situation, you shouldn't be thinking about that if you are rushing to reload. If you are on the range, pissing bullets, then you do the pull slide back. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I wanna nitpick on the gun selection in this game. I'm sure they did this to expand the number of guns used, but some of their choices just kinda irk me. For instance, why does the Russian military use FAMAS, Tavor TAR-21, MG4, UMP, TDI Vectors, PP2000, AUG, AK's and RPD's? Seriously, TAR-21's? Israel doesn't even really like Russia right now, considering that they're selling weapons to people who want to destroy them.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well the AKs, RPD and PP2000 are obviously Russian weapons, but I hate that they didn't give them AK-74 type weapons, but all 47s instead. The Russian military doesn't use AK-47s anymore. They've switched to the smaller rounds. They also had the Russians during the Wolverine mission with FALs. IW obviously didn't know a thing about Russian military of today and didn't want to just give them all AKs, so they slapped them with a bunch of other guns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Wait a minute, aren't russians in the Wolverines mission ultranationalists? Because if they are the terrorist ones then they can have any gun they want.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:No they're the russian army. I'm guessing that you haven't played the game (spoiler) as it is the russian army paratroopers invading the east coast of the U.S. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC))<br />
<br />
I think the Ultra nationalist won the civil war in Russia. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes, I have to agree that it seems that IW knows jack-shit about firearms, just like most everyone else in the world, unfortunately. An FN rifle with a reciprocating charging handle? Come on. [[Special:Contributions/70.196.44.211|70.196.44.211]] 01:03, 17 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:At least they didn't make the single player M16A4 a full auto weapon and made it burst. That one's ok. And seriously, if they were modeling their guns off of airsofts, or even real ones, how can they fuck up with the SCAR's rear flip up sight? It's very hard to miss where it folds. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
== TMP or MP9? ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Just wondering about the labeling on the MW2 page. The game calls it a "TMP", but on the MW2 page it's labeled as an MP9. Since they look the same, why bother calling it the MP9 when it is in fact the TMP? -KLR<br />
<br />
:Because the MP9 is the newer version of the TMP. I do believe Bruger and Thomet took over production from Steyr, who no longer makes it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
::Isn't the side-folding stock unique to the MP9? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:32, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Yeah, I think that was a part of the update too. Either way, unless those are old TMPs, the MP9 is the logical choice for the game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
::::Update? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::The update Bruger and Thomet made when they took over building TMPs. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Walther WA 2000 screenshot==<br />
Did someone have fun or is this an unedited screenshot from the game? If you look at the scope you can see an unhappy sick face painted on the scope cover. I have yet to use this gun, so I don't know. My money is on someone having fun. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
No, it's really like that in the game, the only people having fun there was Infinity Ward :D [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]]<br />
<br />
:Thats the emblem used for a certain class of accolades, and a comedic effect as well. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
stop lieing to the guy. yes it does have a sick face painted on the cover its more noticeable on the WA2000 theres one on the barrett M102(idk the spelling or the number) aswell but its hard to see. theres none on the intervention or the M21 EBR. - Scarecrow<br />
<br />
==L86A1 LSW drum magazine==<br />
<br />
It is impossible in real life to fire and handle an L85A1 LSW with a 100 round drum magazine? --[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 15:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Impossible? No. Incredibly uncomfortable, awkward, and impractical? Yes.--[[Special:Contributions/141.165.142.102|141.165.142.102]] 16:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Unless you're left-handed or have ''really long arms''... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Also the drum in the game model doesn't make sense. That's surely not big enough tohold 100 rounds, looks more like 50 to me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:If you shot it left handed, the charging handle would break your jaw-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I didn't know the L85/86 had a reciprocating charging handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
::: Either way you'd still get a face full of hot brass firing left handed. Which may probve to be a problem if I decide to enlist... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PC or console? ==<br />
<br />
So who has the PC and who has the Console version? Fact is that there is absolutely no difference between the two. In fact the PC is pretty much a direct port from the console version. I don't have any consoles, so I go for PC. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:48, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
this has nothing to do with the firearms of the game. please leave until you can think of something relevant.<br />
<br />
== SCAR H is really a SCAR L ==<br />
<br />
I think that the SCAR that is in the game is actually chambered in 5.56. I say this because it holds 30 rounds and after the helicopter is shot down in DC you are given a mag for an M4 from Sgt. Foley who has a SCAR. I think they had the SCAR replacing the M16 as the main battle rifle of the U.S. Military with the M16A4 being used for the reserve troops. They probably used the SCAR H model to make it look cooler. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The SCAR in the game isn't chambered in anything because it is a video game. Also if I am not mistaken IMFDB policy in regards to videogames is to identify guns purely by looks, not by any specifications. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
No its the Mk. 17 as evidenced by the larger flash suppressor. Infinity Ward probably created a 30 round mag to keep it more like an assault rifle than the battle rifle it is. Also the soldier who gives you the M4 dies and the clip could be from him. <br />
Here's a picture of the flash suppressor to show it's an Mk.17--[[User:Km314|Km314]] 06:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC) <br />
[[http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/c/c0/SCAR-H_Lv8_II.png]]<br />
:''Magazine'', not clip. And I thought there had been a 30 round magazine introduced for use with the M14 rifle a few years ago? Last I heard, the Mark 17 still used M14 mags. And, while this may not be the best of arguments here, the Mark 17 in-game has heavier recoil than either the M16 or M4 and generally seems more effective at longer ranges than the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
It only has the 30 round magazine in single player, incorrectly, but in multiplayer, it has the 20 round. A lot of the weapons in multiplayer is correct but still, IW did miss a few things, like the rear iron sight for the SCAR is supposed to fold down towards the user, not away. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Regarding the rear sight... someone on IW's forum actually pointed that out to them sometime prior to the game's release, but they didn't do anything. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Is it an M9, 92FS or 92SB? ==<br />
<br />
I'm confused. We have the title of the handgun called an SB, then a photo of a 92FS and then in the description, it's called an M9. Which one is it? Isn't the game trying to portray an M9 since it's military use? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
it should be cleened up. well im guessing a 92FS is the civil version of the M9 (what its suposed to be)<br />
but its a 92SB because of the rounded trigger guard. -scarecrow<br />
<br />
== Combat Knife ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone identify the combat knife used in the final level? I know I've seen it before, I just don't know where. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:05, 11 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
-If it's the same one that shows up in the sneak type missions I believe its a Blackhawk Tatang or SZABO FELONY STOP. --Pawnstar<br />
<br />
:Looks like it's the Tatang. It is DEFINITELY NOT the Szabo Felony Stop. Thanks for the help, chief. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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just played that level again and i dont think its a tatang -scarecrow<br />
: Well, they look exactly alike, from the design of the blade to the look of the grip. The dimensions may be a tiny bit off, but that's not all that surprising.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 21:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
Is that the same blade that appears when you melee? Gunner313<br />
:Not sure. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 21:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Operation_Flashpoint:_Dragon_Rising&diff=214094Talk:Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising2009-12-12T20:41:49Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Operation Flashpoint Dragon RisingM16s.JPG]]<br />
<br />
Check out the oddly proportioned magazines. What on earth are those supposed to be? 25 rounders? I haven't played this game yet, but if the devs can't even get the proportions of a 30 round AR-15 mag right it makes me wonder what else they screwed up, it doesn't instill much confidence. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 14:20, 12 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:They look a lot like the new 20 round curved magazines I've been seeing all over the damn place. And if you're looking for a great tactical game, OF:DR is it. If you're looking for another CoD, look elsewhere. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:41, 12 December 2009 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Operation_Flashpoint:_Dragon_Rising&diff=214092Talk:Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising2009-12-12T20:39:22Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Operation Flashpoint Dragon RisingM16s.JPG]]<br />
<br />
Check out the oddly proportioned magazines. What on earth are those supposed to be? 25 rounders? I haven't played this game yet, but if the devs can't even get the proportions of a 30 round AR-15 mag right it makes me wonder what else they screwed up, it doesn't instill much confidence. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 14:20, 12 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:They look a lot like the new 20 round curved magazines I've been seeing all over the damn place. And if you're looking for a great tactical game, OF:DR is it. If you're looking for another CoD, look elsewhere.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_2&diff=214091Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 22009-12-12T20:36:50Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Combat Knife */</p>
<hr />
<div>Note: This talk page is for discussion related to the '''article'''. Do not use it to argue about how H&K pwnz Colt, it is safe to say nobody cares.<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
==Weapon on newspaper==<br />
Hey for anyone who has played the game,do you think the rifle from the newspaper they showed when talking about Makarov should be included?<br />
<br />
==Suggestions==<br />
I think the page needs the F2000 and TAR-21 with their special sights. Also, if anyone is looking for a screen of the M14 EBR with nothing attached, there's one in the spec ops mission where you breach the gulag wall. Oh, and we need the GP-25 included. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 19:40, 28 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:The TAR-21 on the page ''already'' has a MARS sight on it. And the F2000 on the page is the same version used in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:11, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::There are no in-game screens of the MARS sight and the F2000's standard scope is in the game as the RDS in multiplayer, or "scoped" in singleplayer.<br />
<br />
==winchester 1887 loading animation==<br />
<br />
Is it supposed to load through reciever like that?<br />
\<br />
:Yes -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
::Sort of. The animation shows the rounds being placed in the upper tube (the barrel) rather than the lower tube (the magazine). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
It is wierd, but 1887's do load that way.<br />
When you pull the cocking lever down the top of the breech kind of rolls back and opens. <br />
The shells slip into the breech, past the chamber and down into the tube magazine below the barrel. <br />
They're slow and a little clumsy to reload IRL. You have to push the shell down into the magazine tube past the stop with your thumb.<br />
You can get a close look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE9WD9Fihks<br />
<br />
<br />
:::This one looks like the cowboy action shooter style thats made to quickly load 2 shots, usually custom jobs but I believe Legacy Arms -> Puma Arms is currently selling one. Since in cowboy action shooting you can only have a maximum of 2 rounds in a shotgun. [[Special:Contributions/24.177.167.87|24.177.167.87]]Pawnstar<br />
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== Price's 1911 ==<br />
Actually its in the game it can be picked up and used in the museum, don't know about MP though.<br />
<br />
*It's not featured in MP, it's exclusive to the single player level Museum, though I have heard you can find it during an early mission, much in the same way as to how the desert eagle in MW was found on Crew Expendable (the only one in the entire SP campaign btw). Apparently on one of the loading screens, it details the weapon as a GI 1911 (unsure of the manufactuer) compared to what it was in Modern Warfare, a Springfield Armoury 1911 Professional model. [[Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
On one of the loading scenes I think it said it was a colt.<br />
<br />
The one used by price is a springer pro, colt's just a more recognizable name to put in loading screens.<br />
<br />
Yeah, most definitely NOT a Colt. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M93R ==<br />
There is a confirmation of the M93R machine pistol to be unlocked in MW2 online as confirmed in this video at the bottom of this page<br />
<br />
http://modernwarfare247.com/news/multiplayer-unlocks - Madax XX<br />
<br />
CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO ADD PICTURES ONTO A PAGE ?????????????<br />
<br />
== Who saw this video, 92, FS or SB? ==<br />
The video with the Beretta M9, Ive not seen, Is it a 92 FS or SB?, i mean this isn't my site but still putting M9 just make's it as noobs are running the place, lol sorry, so who has the link to the video?<br />
*It is impossible to understand it from video. The only place this pistol appears is shown on the screenshot, the trigger guard is not seen, so i decided to discribe it as military modification, M9. I don't think, that it is a big problem for you to write what is this pistol realy is, whan we will have a better view.<br />
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Didn't mean to offended you, it's just most people come to this site to get correct info on weapons, but i suppose putting M9 isn't that bad considering that its the correct name, i just feel its lack of info.<br />
<br />
Its the 92SB again, you can tell on its Create-A-Class picture<br />
<br />
== Airsoft ==<br />
I like airsoft as much as the next guy, but we already have pictures of ''real'' M4A1s and MP5Ks on the site, so no need to replace them with pics of airsoft replicas. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, but the "real" M4A1s and MP5Ks in the game don't look like those pictures; for the sake of identification, wouldn't it just be simpler to use images that at least look like the weapons from the game, whether they're real or not? Besides, there are plenty of other pages that use airsoft images, so why should this one be an exception?<br />
:Biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of. As you can see on the [[M16 rifle series|M16]] and [[Heckler & Koch MP5|MP5]] pages, we have plenty of pictures of the real things, so no need to add airsoft replicas to the page instead. Whether or not they're equipped with a specific rail system or not is moot, since the rail systems in question are pictured beneath the weapons and the addition of them ''on'' the weapons doesn't change anything. An M4 is still an M4 and an MP5K is still an MP5K. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There has always been guns we see in movies that have been customized and don't look like the stock photos of the gun unmodded. It's best to have a picture of the real thing than a fake that LOOKS like the one used in the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Then shouldn't all the other airsoft pictures (such as the Custom 1911 seen on the MGS4 page and the Cutlass on the Black Lagoon page, and even the Springfield Armory M1911 on CoD4's and MW2's page) be replaced with stock pictures? If you're gonna insist on this, you might as well go all the way.<br />
::As I've already pointed out, '''biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of'''. So those images are there '''because we don't have pics of the real things'''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
For the record, I'm in favor of pictures of the weapons modded or detailed as they are seen in the movie or game. Chances are the link takes you to the base page for them anyway, so you can see a picture of the real deal. Someone might be looking for a picture of the gun that is identical to how it is in the film or game. Whether it's airsoft or not to me seems moot as long as it is the weapon in question. Of course, no orange tips, please. -- ZG<br />
:The problem I have with all Airsoft guns is that they all scream "FAKE!" to those of us who spend alot of time around the real thing. Now as placeholders until we get a real weapon image I don't mind as it's a placeholder. Useing an airsoft gun insted of a real firearm that we have an image of that I just don't like. We do get the occational screem used weapon here and even when those have been beat to hell they are much better than the most realistic airsoft gun.--[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:48, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Replaced the airsoft M4A1 with the pic of a real one yet again. It doesn't matter whether it looks exactly like it does in-game or not. An M4A1 is an M4A1, regardless of what it looks like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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But if you could find a picture of what it looks like exactly in the game, wouldn't you use it? -- ZG<br />
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:The inclusion of a few tacticool accessories is not enough of a reason to waste server space on even more photos of a weapon we already have a number of photos of. For the third time, an M4A1 is an M4A1 regardless of what kind of rail system and whatnot is on it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I (not that it matters) am perfectly fine with pictures of the real deal and I love the effort that's gone into posting such great screenshots. I just hope the trend keeps with noting what particular accessories are present. I'm one of those douchebags that sees guns in the movies and thinks "Golly! I want mine to look just like that!" In any case, I love the site and it hasn't let me down yet. -- ZG<br />
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:Nothing at all wrong with noting what kind of accessories are used and by no means does it make you (or anyone else) a douchebag. I mean, flashlights, IR and visible lasers, optics... all that stuff is awesome. I just think it's unnecessary (as well as a waste of server space) to have multiple pics of one weapon customized in multiple different ways each for a few specific pages when one pic of the weapon in its standard configuration can be used on all pages, with minor differences noted in the descriptory paragraph. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I agree. I'm all for the efficient use of resources and I come here for info and screenshots anyway. I wasn't necessarily against airsoft pictures but I do see it a different way now. In the spirit of full disclosure, however, I really am quite a douchebag. -- ZG<br />
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:Lol XD Well, they ''do'' say honesty is golden... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Planned Weapons==<br />
Where did the informatio for most of these planned weapons come from??<br />
:No idea, and no one has posted any sources, and there's no way to edit it now. Maybe if another multiplayer video shows up, someone with some authority will notice them and can remove them. I mean, really, the XM8? COD4 never had it and that came out when it was still showing up in every "realistic" FPS.--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::IMHO, the XM8 is way overused in video games today. I'm glad IW shied away from it in favor of weapons like the ACR/Masada, that actually got beyond ''prototype'' stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
the acr isnt past prototype stage<br />
:::No, it just isn't widely available yet, but it ''is'' beyond prototype stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:53, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The ACR is actually being produced by both Bushmaster and Remington. It's already being marketed and available to purchase [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1887==<br />
Is the Winchester 1887 actually confirmed for the game? If it is, you can pretty much create a T2 class with that shotgun, the thumper, juggernaut, stopping power and something else that suits Arnie:P - Madax XXI 12:28<br />
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:Yup, it's in there. I'm totally gonna have a Terminator 2 online kit. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::It's definetely confirmed now, and with the big cocking loop and sawnoff stock and barrel too, only a hint of Terminator 2 fanboyism from IW there.... Can't wait to try it though. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I found it in campaign a minute ago and it really sucks-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:41, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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^^^I think it's pretty good, I'm stoked to get it online.<br />
<br />
::Same here, I heard it has fairly good range and damaged when stacked up to the other shotguns, it just has a slower ROF, due to the lever action. you can dual wield them though, which says something. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:It's one of the only shotguns with the furthest range out of the lot in MP, this and steady aim and it's a monster in it's own. Like you said M14, it has a low ROF and the second smallest capacity next to the ranger [[Draco122|Draco122]] 21:06, 26 November 2009<br />
<br />
::Actually it doesn't. I picked an 1887 up off a dead guy today, and was amazed. first thing is, that it has stunning range. Easily the best, can hit damn close to 50 feet. It holds 7 shots in MP as well, and you can dual wield them, cocking them T2 style. It's a beast of a shotgun, and I can't wait to unlock it for myself. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::Isn't this weapon the Winchester 1897 shotgun, originally designed for trench warfare and used by the US military thru Vietnam (and plenty are still in use by civilians in the US). In playing COD 5: World at War, I haven't found the shotguns to be particularly effective. The Japanese NPCs are often so quick (esp in the higher difficulty level) that they are on you before you can chamber another round (esp in the section of the game where you have to destroy a howitzer with a 3 barreled 25mm AA gun and quickly take up a covered position to eliminate the Japanese counter-attack using a scoped Springfield). Two Japanese soldiers immediately attack you. I was killed more often using the shotgun than using the Type 100 or the .30 belt-fed machine gun--whose name just eluded me.<br />
<br />
:::As for COD6:MW2, I have yet to run into the 1897. With so many high tech weapons (and the bewildering array of Russian weapons in the Sgt Roach and Pvt Ramirez sections), why bother with such an obsolete weapon given the effectiveness of the ASC45 (?) that's standard issue for Rangers & Special Forces, esp when there are smg/shotgun combos available. Or the incredible arsenal in Makarov's safe house?<br />
<br />
:::[[User:Newsjunkie356|Newsjunkie356]] 23:58, 9 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::: It's not an 1897, it's an 1887, being lever-action not pump-action. That and it's styled after the Terminator 2 shotgun anyway.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:03, 10 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==M1014 Removal?==<br />
Should we remove the section on the M1014 in this game? There hasnt been any confirmation of it appearing in game, aside from the misplaced icon.<br />
<br />
No, it has been confirmed now<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKwaOg7RYPo<br />
<br />
== Any Ideas On The .44 Magnum == <br />
I think its either a Raging bull or a colt anaconda. both look quite simmlar but im thinkin it more a colt anaconda than a raging bull reason being that the the magnum in game look as if it has smaller vents were as the raging bull as quite thick vents. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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On the Call of Duty wikipedia website it said it was a colt anaconda<br />
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Link plz? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Found a video on youtube where they switch classes revealing a .44 magnum on 0:16 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk]<br />
<br />
==Clean Up Page==<br />
I cleaned up the main page, but i can change it back if any one want's. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I noticed that FourZeroTwo has a gun on his back before getting knifed, that you missed. It appears to be a PP-2000, please correct me if I'm wrong<br />
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http://www.modernwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pp-2000<br />
<br />
You could be right, but Ive got a hunch it could be a MP7, which seems more likely. But from what we can see its hard to tell. (thx also :)<br />
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No problem, I just love MW and MW2 and had to point that out, but I didnt know who to talk to about it. Great site, too:) I learned loads about guns, like the difference between a Beretta and a Taurus:) - Terry 00:06<br />
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I was right about the PP-2000!:) - Terry 23:30<br />
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I was like "Sure" when i saw your above post, then i look at the pic of the PP-2000 akimbo, and was like "FUCK" cool any way m8 :)<br />
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== Bullet Types ==<br />
What is this about the Tavor being loaded with FMJ's? Is this supposed to mean that along with choosing weapon attachments, we also get to choose bullet types? - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
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A bit too confusing now lol, I'm thinking it will just be a perk, because if im right fmj's give higher velocities, but i couldn't see how this would affect the game, in cod 4 all bullets moved at the same speeds?<br />
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Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?<br />
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What i understand is that FMJ are solid bullets and the only bullets "allowed" in warfare from the Hague Conventions.<br />
<br />
True, but but a "Black" operation such as this would hardly be concerned with the rules of "conventional warfare." =P<br />
<br />
The Theory behind JHP (Jacketed Hollow Points) is that upon impact of the target the nose of the bullet mushrooms to a much larger size the then original diameter(caliber) of the bullet causing a larger wound channel and more "stopping power"<br />
<br />
The downside to this is that since JHP expand during impact the force of the bullet is dispersed over a larger area on the target making these bullets less likely to pierce body armor, also some HP bullets give certain firearms trouble when cycling this ammo. my 1911 for instance... =)<br />
<br />
Your 1911's feeding of hollow point has to do with the type of 1911 usually. Different kinds of feeding ramps I'm told. My series 70 Gold cup has the same problem but my Springfield TRP feeds just fine.<br />
FMJ's moving at Higher velocities has to do with air drag, hollow points would create more of it. As others have said hope this helps, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong.<br />
<br />
But basically all bullets work well for their intended applications. its just that in this day and age there are so many options for a person to use its just matching the bullet to the task. Hunting, Target, Match, Self-defense, Low recoil or "Cowboy" Loads, Plinking. Its endless. -Furious Oyster (feel free to expand or remove if incorrect or unnecessary, just trying to help)<br />
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well... I didn't exactly want a bullet discussion, i was just wondering how this would affect the game, like if infinity ward would make it horrible and make stuff like hollow points do something like 4 times damage but only go as far as a "Call of Duty Shotgun". - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
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"Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?"- I just read alot on firearms :P but i remember coming across it?<br />
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As far as i know there is an international convention that bans the use of hollow point bullets and other expanding bullets for millitary purposes.<br />
<br />
:That would be the Hague Convention. But from what I understand, it bans their use against ''state-employed combatants'' only, leaving them fair game for counter-terrorism ops and the like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
FMJs could be like the perk "Deep Impact"?<br />
<br />
They are an attachment for the guns that gives them a little extra damage and better penetration through walls too.<br />
<br />
== Extended Magazines Attachments ==<br />
Thought it was pretty cool, but will it be like a drum mag or something like bandolier, what ever it is i hope it applies to assault rifles.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Ump45em.jpg|400px]]<br />
<br />
:Could be a dual mag clip, so you can reload faster. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 00:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: Magazine dammit!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:11, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
He said a clip that holds two magazines together for a speedier reload - Mythekal<br />
:::Huh. i never heard of that before. Good point, Mythekal.<br />
<br />
Lol its still a mag Mythekal!<br />
<br />
its usually just a metal or plastic part that latches to both mags allowing you to just pull out the used one move it to the left and reinsert the fresh mag... Some times its just a piece of tape. Google AR-15 mag couplers or something. -Furious Oyster (Sorry miss read it)<br />
<br />
I knew what a dual mag clip is, i was merely trying to explain it to who ever thought that M14Fan said "Clip" instead of Magazine. And here is a picture to avoid further confusion. -[[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
<br />
[[Image:Dual_Mag_clamp.jpg|200px]]<br />
<br />
There better be an attachment like this for the AA-12, cause its gonna get really annoying reloading that lousy 8-shot magazine every five seconds after unloading on someone lol-ArmoredMason619<br />
<br />
Apparently the extended mags are exactly what you think. They take the standard magazines of any gun and just add like 10 more rounds to it. I don't know about the reload animation, but most likely it's the same. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Barret .50== <br />
<br />
At the end of the Flag Runner video FourZeroTwo has a Barret M82. May not be, but it looks like one and sounds like one, it's a little blurry so i wasn't sure? -Final Tsurugi<br />
<br />
It looks like a Barrett XM500 - Mythekal<br />
<br />
How did i not notice that, actually might be a Barrett M99? - Final Tsurugi<br />
<br />
:Or it could be the M107, the updated M82. ][[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy] 01:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It wasnt the M99 because it was firing semi-automatically, and from the angle, the magazine was not visible, so i assume it was a bullpup - Mythekal<br />
<br />
It is a Barret M82/M107, if you pause the video at the right moment you can see the magazine in front of the grip, i actually got excited to think we might have a bull-pup sniper in Modern Warfare 2 :P -Final Tsurugi<br />
<br />
Nope. Youre all wrong, I mean you got the .50BMG part right, but its actually an Accuracy International AS50. Come on guys I cant be the only one who noticed that-Kellers357<br />
I'm almost positive that it is not an AI. It is just a M107 [[User:mythekal|mythekal]]<br />
<br />
Most definitely a Barret 82/M107. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Brazillian Militia? ==<br />
<br />
They better make the main character waste the militia alongside the Brazilian Army or the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOPE/ BOPE] or i am not buying it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I actually like that causal outfit the militia wear :)<br />
::Me too. I never seen a brazilian wear a 1980s Miami Vice style flower shirt, but i do like how they have militia wearing Brazilian football team shirts. Makes it more realistic. I like the flower shirts though. They are cheesy as hell. It fits the game. Also, Please sign your posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah Miami vice ftw :) --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Guns from the new teaser==<br />
This SMG looks like a [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]].<br />
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|300px|[[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]]]]<br />
[[Image:MW2teastrail1.png|thumb|none|400px|I thought it was a MP5K but if we look closer, it doesn't seem to be one.]]<br />
:It could be a K with the forward grip removed? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
no, its an MP5K equipped with some sort of an RIS handguard to me-Kellers357<br />
<br />
looks like an MP5 with a tactical end-cap, kinda like the end cap on the MP5K. no idea why there's a 15 round magazine though<br />
[[Image:MW2teastrail2.png|thumb|none|400px|And this one looks like a UMP but the the silhouette isn't exactly the same (maybe the model of the game was not loaded enough).]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It definitely resembles a UMP, it probably has rails on the handguard, as well as the front sight removed, as they did in the last game ~[[user:Revolver|Revolver]]<br />
its a UMP with the foresight removed for the red dot-Kellers357<br />
<br />
The one in the first picture is I think a Special Weapons MP-10. Check it out at the bottom of the mp5 page.<br />
::The forearm doesn't look as large as the MP-10 though... everything else looks like a MP-10 indeed.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
The two guns look similar minus the stock and clip. I could be wrong but I'm sure that if it isn't a special weapons mp-10 then it is an UMP.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
:Magazine goddamit![[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
What's wrong with saying clip? It means the same thing.<br />
:.. Uh, no. It's not. A 'clip' is the device that loads a magazine. You either use it to load your detachable magazines, or you carry the clips to load the fixed magazine in your rifle (on old rifles). You don't carry 'clips' around any more. They're two different things. It's like saying rim and tyre mean the same thing. --[[User:Joffeloff|Joffeloff]] 12:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
I've never heard that before. I can see where clip comes from stripper clip that they used in rifles. Everyone around me says clip and mag is interchangeable but people use mag more often. If it really bothers you that much then I'll just say mag then.<br />
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Special Weapons MP-10 9x19mm]]<br />
The second one looks like an UMP. I'm pretty sure we're dealing with two guns here.<br />
::Yeah but there is no rear sight on the one in the screenshot, and it's disturbing me... maybe they took it away because of the Red Dot on it.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
Actually if you look closely that kinda square shape towards the back of the gun is the iron sight so it's pretty much an UMP with what looks like an ACOG. If you're talking about the front sight for the UMP which does appear to be missing, remember that they removed the front sights from the M4/M16 when you attach a sight even though that's not standard.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
[[Image:UMP 45.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch UMP .45 ACP]]<br />
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
I've got a clearer shot of the weapon thanks to a friend :)<br />
[[Image:MW2MP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok I guess it's not an MP-10 but a dressed up MP-5. They did it to the AK I suppose they are going to do it to the MP-5?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Guys on CoD Wikia found an interesting thing about this gun and I pretty agree: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Modern_Warfare_2#Sub_Machine_Guns <br/>They say it's a MP5K with a R.I.S system. Since they've put one for the M4, I guess that's possible.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It has to be a MP5k with a rail. The short magazine,no stock, and small flashider make it the only possible variant.<br />
<br />
==what AK is this?==<br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=2&newsid=20387 <br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=4&newsid=20387<br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=5&newsid=20387<br />
<br />
In the first image I can see that it has a waffle magazine. In the second image I can see that a muzzle brake is present, and in the last image I can see what appears to be a Tapco Intrafuse AK-47 Handguard. So what is it? Oh and it appears to have a synthetic stock. [[Special:Contributions/72.133.253.21|72.133.253.21]] 21:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guns from the trailer ==<br />
[[Image:MW2brazil.png|thumb|none|400px|FN FAL or Imbel MD-3 (brazilian variant of the FAL)?]]<br />
I hope it's an FAL. You barely ever see them in video games-S&Wshooter<br />
:Could be a variant of the KTR-03S - an AK custom build [http://www.krebscustom.com/RawPhotos/6-28-04/KTR-03SFinal.jpg]. - MCain (UTC)<br />
:Me too. I love fals. And the gun above looks like a IMBEL MD2. Heres the wikipedia article: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMBEL_MD2]. Note how it has a STANAG Magazine like the MD2.I also love how ridiculous looking the Brazilian gang members are.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::rather MD-3 isn't it? Since it hasn't a foldable stock.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah without the folding stock it is a MD3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::However, the gun's long barrel looks more like a FAL... ahh sh*t! This fuc*ing game is driving me mad, every guns don't look exactly the same as their originals^^--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I think there are Imbel MD2s or MD3s with the regular barrel.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Ok, there are no Imbel MD3s with regular barrels. It's most likely a design error by the developters.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
(comment: It better be a FAL. I'm getting tired of M4's, M16's, AK's and G36's. I want to be able to use a gun ingame that in't too small for me in real life.-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]])<br />
:I agree. the game better have G3s and IMI galils. I also love the fact that is a Brazilian made Fal. You don't see those in movies.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I also want a MG3 or some kind of big, dumb machine gun chambered to 7.62x51mm NATO. Machine guns chambered to 7.62 tear shit up.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Hell yeah man! Thats exactly what I'm saying. I would also like to see some more bolt action jobs that aren't crappy( DSR-1, Enfield Enforcer, Steyr SSG) in video games- [[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::''This would probably be the IMBEL MD-2 (folding stock) or MD-3 (fixed stock) which is manufactured locally in Brazil. The weapons are based, pretty much, on the FAL with the exception that they fire a 5.56 round'' [[User:Charon68|Charon68]]<br />
:::And are fed from STANAG Magazines and have different handguards.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I'm tired of .223 guns. I would like to see a FAL, M14 or G3 that isn't emasculated (made innacurate, weak or make ammo for it scarce)-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]]<br />
::I want a M14 that is not tricked out with rails like the one in Call of Duty 4. I want a M14 like the one below:<br />
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A real M14.]]<br />
I do like the Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR rifle though. I also want A M16A4 that doesn't fire on Full Auto and a AK-74. AK-74s don't get enough love.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::CoD 7 will be about Vietnam War according to rumours, maybe they'll put in one.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 19:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And smaller conflicts in africa. I hope they also put atleast one level that takes place in the portuguese colonial war.<br />
[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:29, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Now i think the FAL above may be a FN FAL with rails on the handguards and a 30 round magazine but i think it's too curved and big to be 7.62x51mm NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
im taking a guess that the FAL looking rifle is a DSA SA58 OSW. im probably wrong, but thats my two cents<br />
:Way too big to be an SA58. The SA58 is a Carbine. The one in the upper picture is an Assault Rifle. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:02, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
[[Image:MW2smg.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*A Kriss Super V?<br />
Does anyone know who the guy with the KRISS is? Im calling him Brazilian Secret Service but I'm sure Im wrong. Help?-Kellers357<br />
Cool. The pistol is a Desert Eagle, by the way.-protoAuthor<br />
:I think the pistol is a Jericho 941 since it's too small to be a desert eagle.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::No, it's an Eagle. Check out the ejection port.<br />
:::''I concur. It's not terribly visible, but there's that familiar slide mounted safety in both shots. It appears to be a totally game-created custom finish though - the barrel and the underlying section of the frame (where the gas pistons are housed) look to be blued and the grips and the rest of the frame looks silver. On a couple of related notes, wow at the graphics - I took these for pictures of the developers testing out their guns at first - and wow at the handling of the Desert Eagle by this guy. Usually in these games, you see handguns being handled only somewhat compentently at best. This guy looks like he sleeps with the damn thing.'' ---[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 02:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Also, take note of the sound it makes when it fires. Exact same sound as the Desert Eagle in CoD4.<br />
:::::Besides, the game is still going through production and the weapon models will be touched up. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The machine gun ==<br />
I think the machine gun that the russian terrorists are using is a M240.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think it's a M249 SAW, the M240 (GP Machine gun) is bigger.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Could it possibly be a Mk. 46?<br />
:Makes sense since most of the guns are special forces guns.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well the M240B has been added just look at the new multiplayer trailer. IGN rewind theater confirms it too. could someone add it on the main article? -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
==New AK==<br />
[[Image:AKMW2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
I think its just an amped up AK-47. It has an AR-15 stock, waffle magazine, and has a synthetic handguard.<br />
Found a similar image:<br />
[[Image:Ak-47-weapon-accessories-desert-colourb.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 22:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Good god, look what they did to that AK! That's just horrible. I hope the AK in the game isn't like that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:37, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I watched the trailer again. I am sure that i saw a AK with a AK-74 style flash hider.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe a AK-101 since NATO forces use 5.56mm.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think it could be a AK-74M or just a AK-74 since the russian army might make a apparence and they need to arm the russian soldiers.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I said "NATO forces"--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC) because the one having it in the screenshot is Soap... well, maybe or surely, he captured because he had a M14 at the beginning.<br />
::Well...the game's plot is a about a Uber badass special forces unit that works alone and is headed by our buddy Soap up there. So, i guess the badass special forces unit is not part of NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:35, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Neither AK-101 or AK-74, the magazine in the image holds 7.62x39mm. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 00:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Maybe theres the tricked out AK up there and the AK-74 style AK.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well, seems like we won't know until we'll have a level walkthrough with the name of the weapon in it...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I saw the Gameplay videos and i saw two different AKs. One with a AKM style muzzle brake and another one with a AK-74 style flash hider. Maybe we can build guns from the ground up? like, you can have a AK-47 with a kobra sight, snow camo, fires 7.62x39mm and has a AK-74 flash hider?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
*It's gotta be an AKM.<br />
::Why the it would be an AKM? It looks like an AK-74M or one of the AK-100 series.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Well it has ribbing on the top of the reciever, like the AKM, but the indentation I cannot clearly see. It could be like in Farcry 2, where it has the Ak-47 receiver with some AKM parts, and I used AKM because the 100 series are developments on the AKM, understand? So AK-47 is incorrect.<br />
::::But the AK-10X series were developments on the AK-74M. Also, sign you posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well technically the modernizations start with the AKM, I see it as the break off point of the AK series. Ak-74 was designed from the AKM, and so on and so on, but that doesn't matter, yeah it could be the 100 series, but my point is its not an AK-47. Also lacks the flash hiders of the 74 and 100s. But I think it's a frankenAK-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]<br />
::I think the AK-74 flashider can be seen when in first person. Like how in the first Modern Warfare, The first person model of the M4 had an grip on the handguard but the world model didn't have a grip. I also think it's an frankengun or it may be an AK that the player can build. Like in hitman: Blood Money.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I don't think so on the 74, but I think we can agree in the meantime it is not an AK-47 so we should change the heading accordingly, evidence shows it is a modernized variant so we could say a Kalashnikov in the heading and have notations that it is a modernized variant.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]<br />
<br />
It looks like it has the AK-47 variant front sight on it.<br />
<br />
Guys, I guess it's new railed AK-103 from Izhmash with M4ish buttstock and waffled mags. Check the link below for pics, note the same muzzle brake etc as in the game.<br />
[http://depositfiles.com/files/xgycdj189 new AK-103]<br />
<br />
:That link goes to a pay-to-download site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Unrealeted ==<br />
Ok, i know this has nothing to do with the game or releted to guns but, i was reading the Modern Warfare 2 thread on the Something Awful forums and they were calling the Brazilian gangters africans. What the ? and they seen to think the scenes in Rio De Janeiro are set in Africa. What the mother ? it offends me that people are dumb enough to ignore the line "he's got a contact in rio" and Christ the Redeemer and the huge mountains with favelas full of illiterate drug dealers and the Brazilian made Imbel MD-3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What do you expect? It's Something Awful!<br />
<br />
To be fair all the favela gangsters that are seen so far are Afro-Brazilians, even if there are plenty of gang members of all races in real life. With so many games having levels in destroyed urban areas in Africa it's not surprising that some people would get a Black Hawk Down style vibe from the pictures.<br />
<br />
Personally I hate something Awful as they break their own rules on posting. One member has a post on there with my first and last names and it's a bloody poison pen hitpeice. I asked the frigging syop to remove the shit and he laughed at me. Personally I find the site the home of a bunch of elitist idiots who have at least one member dumb enough to set the fuel line for a weilding torch on fire.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 19:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, i like something awful but you have to be really dumb not to see the Christ the redeemer.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Hopes For New Game==<br />
<br />
Want a little realism and some weapons like standard battle rifles not all trick out with rails. Hoping russians have ak-74s and makarovs or that new 9x19 pistol they developed, not ak47s. Militias and gangs should have a mix of guns, not all berettas and 1911s. A makarov, cz-75, hk or two, glock, model 19 smiths.....just variety.<br />
<br />
What the fick is an "akarov"? Lol-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Makarov, a 9x18mm pistol that has been issued in several variants to the russian military. Come on, seriously, sticky keys some things are mspelled.<br />
<br />
I knew that. I was just kidding-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think the brazilians should use taurus and stoeger guns too, that would be realistic. And the militia should have some sxs coach guns and taurus revolvers, you know, the non tatcticla stuff. And psitols should be portrayed as hard to shoot, not coming back exactly on target after each round and it should wobble a bit while aiming.<br />
:The Brazilian gangsters are using tricked out guns with rails. At least the IMBEL MD-3 up there has a Eotech reflex sight and what looks like rails on the handguards but they could be the regular MD-3 hand guard. We know the AKs are going to be tricked out as like the image above but i think i saw a AK-74 that was not tricked out. I hope they have a AK-74.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
My major hope for the game is a surpressed sniper rifle available on multiplayer not single. The first Modern Warfare was a great stealth game with all the "Surpressors", and "Ghillie Suits" but really was a "Greek Tragedy" on multiplayer. I could understand that your average military trained sniper has a spotter and a shooter and are trained to be the world's top 10 patient people in the world but can't put the patience into a live game with real people in a seven minute match. Aside from history why couldn't the writers just put a M21 with a surpressor on in multiplayer like in the missions "Blackout" and "All Ghillied Up"? For the new guys to COD4 on the M21 attachments there are only two attachments "No Attachment" has a standard scope, the ACOG attachment has a ACOG scope and is missing a surpressor as a third attachment. If you understand how to customize your attachments you wouldn't be so confused but since the "No Attachment" feature has a standard scope why not have the surpressor and scope. It just doesn't make sense why you would have the same setup in the campaign but not in multiplayer. We can all understand why you can't have more than one attachment on any other weapons but why not add a surpressor on a sniper that has "No Attachment" for it's standard scope? I am probably to late to send this message to Infinity Awards but I spent 20 minutes on it so I might get lucky if they read it and a miracle if they change it. I'm just sharing my hopes so try not to delete it.<br />
<br />
I hope they get more shotguns in and make them a tiny bit better.m3,870,m1300,m950,etc. Two shotguns that go 5 feet suck, especially when pistols can go as far as sniper rifles.<br />
<br />
* If they added compensators to the attachments for handguns would be cool. It sucks that there's only one attachment for pistols in MW1, and the D-Eagle hasnt got anything that can be put on it, and that sucks even more. Maybe different calibers for the D-Eagles could be used too, but that might be going too far. And I hope theres an SG552 in there aswell, I love that gun so much. And if they added firing selection to the game, you could switch the SPAS from pump to semi auto, which would also be cool, and a touch more realistic.<br />
<br />
:More Desert Eagle is the ''last'' thing this game needs. Seriously, why not a SIG 226 or HK45 instead (i.e., an actual ''combat pistol'')? One thing I want for sure is a freaking fire selector for assault rifles and carbines. Like has been said on the CoD4 page, full auto or bust sucks. I prefer quick double tapping on semi-auto. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
My hopes for this game? An automatic FAMAS; leave the 3-round burst to the M16. Also, a true M14. As for everything else, well, the only thing I was worried about from the onset was the RPD, but since it's been confirmed, I'm ecstatic. And I like how they're doing the secondary weapon thing. Having a shotgun as your primary could be pretty useless sometimes...[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
-you no what, they need to make a real "modern warfare" game, like with acts going from Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, and hell Somalia, who wouldnt want to play a blackhawk down game with kick ass graphics AND guns, that is what cod7 should be and obviously with the real weaponry they had, ex- no Magpul Masada in vietnam, Sad but true, any agree with this?- Griz<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1200==<br />
<br />
We all know the 1200 is old and not used since vietnam. The 1300 is used. Would it be safe to say these are mis-named winchester 1300s? Or is it more video game nonsense?<br />
:The 1200 in this game is the same 1200 from Modern Warfare 1 so it's safe to say that the Winchester is a 1200 even though is pretty retarded to militarys still be using the 1200 today.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:52, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I seriously doubt the 1200 was ever made in this configuration.<br />
:Me too but it is a video game and video game developters are pretty retarded when it comes to guns. Still, this and COD4 have the best Gun in video game history atleast by now.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Watching over the video again on youtube and moderwarfare2.com, the weapon does look like a Winchester 1200 at first glance, yet I'm also convinced it may be a Remington 870 MCS, either in the Entry configuration or the Patrol Configuration due to the length of the barrel or it maybe the combination of the two, due to the length of the barrel with an added entry front sight. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 22:15, 11 August 2009<br />
<br />
[[Image:Rem870mcs_14.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
== Alright ==<br />
Alright you son-of-a-bitches there's a gameplay video in gametrailers. It's pretty low quality but some new guns were seen, including the gun with the heartbeat sensor and some others. Now, i don't know how to screencap trailers so someone else will have to do it.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Here they come:<br />
[[Image:MW2AR1.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2AR2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
YOU FOOL! It's "sons-of-bitches". That's a pretty awesome-looking cap, though.-protoAuthor<br />
:Thanks for the correction. I am sure Soap and Roach we using AKs with AK-74 flash hiders. Anyone have any idea what kind of AKs were those?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:20, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Oliveira, do you think you could post a link of the trailer for me, please? Thanks so much. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Which trailer?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== gameplay demo ==<br />
<br />
did anyone see the new gameplay demo for Modern Warfare 2<br />
it showed "Roach"(main protagonist) with a IMBEL MD-3 with a dot sight and a...radar<br />
im not good with gun attachments but is there really a radar attatchment?<br />
:It's a heartbeat sensor and the gun wasn't a MD-3. it looked like a fictional gun of some sort.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::some says it's a SCAR--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Makes sense since the charging handle is on the right side. But i think the SCAR charging handle is on the left side.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
-It looks like a Sig 556 variant to me - Mythekal<br />
<br />
Yeah looks like the sig556 itself thogh, not the military versions? Also, would it be safe to say the glock is a glock 18, no idea how anyone would mistake a full auto as a g22/.<br />
<br />
It could just be a fully automatic Glock 22. Gun rules dont necessarily matter to video games - Mythekal<br />
:Mythekal is right. Hell, Modern Warfare 1 had a M16A4 that fired on full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All that matters is the real weapon that the in-game version is modeled from. Call of Duty 4 had an Aks-74u modeled from an Airsoft gun - Mythekal<br />
<br />
I'm starting to think that this rifle could be a Bushmaster ACR, as it shares similar traits, except for the placement of the charging handle - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:My thoughts too. The charging handle is consistent to the ACR, but the SCAR has the same kind of charging handle. We can't see the stock and both could accept a thermold mag. So it could be either. I really doubt they make up an entire fiction rifle for the sake of it. Modern Warfare was always all about guns that are real. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Though the weird part is, the ACR has a slide release right next to the trigger, similiar to the XM8. You reload and just press forward with your trigger finger, no need to slap or pull the charging handle. The SCAR has the slide release like the AR-15 rifles, you can just slap it to release, but yet in the gameplay, you don't slap a slide release or push a slide release, you pull the charging handle back. Strange [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It could be a Magpul Masada. It is very similar to the weapon in the videos, and has a charging handle on the right side of the receiver. In the video, the stock has a hinge, indicating a folding stock, which looks almost identical to the Masada. - Mythekal<br />
<br />
The rifle also has ambidexterous charging handles - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:That sumbitch is most certainly a Masada.<br />
<br />
new gameplay vid says it's a silenced ACR with heartbeat sensor.<br />
<br />
I think it is a Magpul Masada [[User:Choi117|Choi117]]<br />
:I watched the Gameplay and i'm sure that the gun is a ACR.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
ACR is the masada. Same gun, switched manufacturer.<br />
:Sorry, i didn't know that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
But the stock is that of the Masada - Mythekal<br />
<br />
::ACR man, I know the Masada sounds cooler, but it isn't call that anymore. It's like people still calling the REC 7 a Barret M468 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:42, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or any of the M16 series of weapons a AR-15.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well if it's called AR15, you would be referring to the civilian M16 rifles. M16 is a military weapon and an AR-15 isn't. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I think the pistol is a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18C]]<br />
:Most likely since it was firing on Full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::It was pointed out that the firing rate wasn't the same speed as a real [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], but it could be that the developers couldn't quite get the slide and sound speed for a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]]. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or it could be a [[Glock]] firing on semi-automatic. [[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::That little er fires fast if its semi auto (pardon my language)<br />
:::::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18's]] did not have this color available. [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22's]] just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.<br />
<br />
==Weapons-trailers==<br />
<br />
Been seeing trailers online annoncing weapons and perks. How much cred do they have? Theres no footage to back it up, bt several announced weapons are in the screenshots. They also list the 110 SASR, L85, L85 mg version, etc.<br />
:Weapon trailers? Where the hell can i find those? They could be really useful for the article.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Youtube, theres a "weapons" one that just lists guns, and a weapons and perks thing, the perks it actually ahs proof from the original teaser.<br />
<br />
:I wouldn't trust any of those youtube bull. One said there might be an XM8 in the game. I hope it does not. That's one more step towards having all the guns Rainbow Six have. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Those videos are pure speculation. I'm sure those are all . We will only document weapons that are confirmed by the developters and seen in gameplay.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hbar? ==<br />
I don't want to offend anyone but, what the mother is a Hbar?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Its the Heavy barreled variant of the Aug meant to be a squad based machine gun - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:Hbar could also be refering to anything really. Heavy barrel anything. I've seen plenty of AR-15 variants in movies with Hbars. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6211390/?hd=1&tag=live-schedule] Sometime when the player passes over ennemies' corpses, he can take their weapons. One of them (the other is often a FA-MAS) is a AUG. There is four letter after it, a H at the beginning and I don't see well the other 3. But there is only one variant of the AUG with a "H" in its name, and that's the HBar.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Could someone upload a image of the icon in the above video? The link isn't working for me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I just watched the E3 gameplay again. The AUG HBAR pick up symbol looks amazingly like the SA80 British service rifle. Might be a place holder or something.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
:I made a note of it in the actual page. It DOES look like an SA80 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::My money's on a mislabel. We know the standard AUG is confirmed (all those screenshots) so why not the HBAR too?--[[Special:Contributions/142.162.149.33|142.162.149.33]] 17:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you pause it right before you kill the guy who carried it it's an AUG. So therefore its a mislabel. (I wish I can upload the screenshot but dun know how.)<br />
:::Sign you posts for christ's sake.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
== Correct Name ==<br />
I think we should call this game Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 instead of just [[Modern Warfare 2]] because we have a entire alphabetized series of Call Of Duty in the Video Games Category and just putting this in the "M" section does not look we even have this page. If somebody knows how to put this in the "C" section with out changing the name that will be organized.<br />
<br />
:Well that's the problem. Originally it WAS called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and some still do, but officially, the publishers decided to shorten the title for some reason. We COULD for alphabetize sake, put Call of Duty in front so it fits with the others. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And I've successfully changed the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Wait, I thought the reason that this was called Modern Warfare 2 was because Infinity Ward no longer wanted to make any more WWII related games and as such gave the "Call of Duty" moniker to Treyarch. Modern Warfare is supposedly now a separate series from Call of Duty. [[User:Markit|Markit]]<br />
:Modern Warfare is its own series now and isn't a CoD game anymore.-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Or we could make a new "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" page which bring it here.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Actually, this game is still being published by Activision that published the previous game. It is STILL apart of the Call of Duty franchise, they just chose to officially call this game just Modern Warefare 2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Keep it modern warfare 2, but link them together, like GM did linking all the dirty harry movies together.<br />
<br />
I just saw a new official cover art for the game. It says<br />
CALL OF DUTY<br />
MODERN WARFARE 2<br />
so i think we should call it call of duty modern warfare 2 -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
Thats just the boxart. Officially by the gamedevs its only called Modern warefare 2. They just slapped "call of duty" on there because a lot of people are stupid enough not to realise this IS a sequel to Call of Duty 4: modern warefare [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
== Taskforce 141 = Rainbow Six ==<br />
<br />
A multinational commando unit? The moment I read that, I immediately thought Rainbow and well we really can't complain what kinds of weapons these guys uses since they are a fictional unit like Rainbow so they can use whatever they want. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I was expecting the task forece to be from the UN. That would be cool.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::But if they say they are are UN taskforce makes the team sound kinda...pointless Like the UN does anything. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I though Rainbow Six was a UN Task Force? Anyway, a movie or televison series about a UN Uber badass task force that were formed to catch international criminals would be really cool. The problem with the UN is that they try to be neutral and being neutral doesn't do anything. The UN should be reformed to be more of a International police that works against international criminals and make international laws.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
I like the UN the way it is. What you're talking about sounds like the first step to a totalitarian society.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
:What i'm talking about is stuff like Resolution 84. I also like the UN the way it is but, they fail at quick responses to genocide such as the Rwandan Genocide in 1994.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
In general they fail at mostly any response. They just don't have the power to back up their enforcement of peace. Any peace keeping force with too much power can be oppressive. Who will keep the peace keepers in check when they're suppose to keep us in check? Quite the dilemma. I just don't think the idea of the U.N. or anything similar can work.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
:The United States shall keep the UN in check, without US, there is no UN. They need us more than we need them. It might seem like typical arrogant American mentality, but from how things are, the US has more indirect influence and handle over the entire world. We are the world's insurance policy, the self proclaimed enforcer, guardian, peacekeeping super power despite all our internal problems with crime, money and other things, but because of our population and how relatively young our nation is, the intense diversity in culture and believes keeps us in check. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The Problem is when someone like Bush Jr. comes up and s everything up. Could you imagine having someone like him being President of The United States during the Cold War? Anyway, The UN did have a really good quick response to the North Korean invasion of South Korea. We almost had North Korea. If weren't for the goddamm chinese.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Yeah if it weren't for them all this Kim Jong Il shit wouldn't be happening and we wouldn't be about to go to war in Korea-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 18:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Hey Smith, if someone is at fault for not winning the Korean War and not having only one Korea, is Mao. Truman also kinda ed up by telling the 7th Fleet to enter the Taiwan Straits.<br />
:::Um, Task Force 141 is a play on Task Force 121, which in real life is a (dare I say) black ops verison of JSOC. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
I think the Task Force 141 is referring to Task Force 145 in reality. Task Force 145 is a joint force combining US and UK special forces<br />
<br />
Task Force 121 was in no way a Black Ops Unit. It was, as 145 is, a multinational military unit assigned dircetly to counter-terrorism. Task Force 121 no longer exists it is now known as 145, which is what Task Force 141 in the game is based off of.<br />
<br />
team rainbow was made to combat terrorism the old commander of ranbow is was a navy seal and a cia agent. he is the guy in clear and present danger is his name mr. clark.<br />
<br />
Yeah that's from the original book, Rainbow Six. The games are all based around it. He was and Ex-SEAL who was recruited by the CIA and became an Operator[a Spy, if you wanna be movie technical.]. His name was John Clark.<br />
<br />
:My Rainbow Six history isn't what it used to be, but I'm pretty sure John Clark was just the director of Rainbow and didn't do much field work (most of which was left to Ding Chavez, at least until the Vegas games when he was promoted to Six and Logan and Bishop were brought into the picture). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
True, he didn't do much feild. About all he did in the basis of feild work was at the end of the novel where they hunt down the Bio-terrorist's and chase them to their secondary base in Brazil. He run's the show basically as Feild Commander.<br />
<br />
Task Force 141 in-game is made-up of an unknown amount of countries military. The three that you can definately tell are, U.S. Military, British S.A.S., and Australian S.A.S.<br />
<br />
== More weapons comfirmed ==<br />
<br />
It seems that p90 is making a return and spas 12 will also be ingame<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKBEQoSpu8<br />
:That guy got a lot of the guns wrong and that AUG Hbar looked more like a SA80 to me. And what the hell is up the people thinking that the FAL in the trailer is a AK? It looks nothing like it!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:00, 6 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well, most people are unaware of all the different kinds of firearms. I'm surprise this guy in the vid ID as much as there was. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CPT. Price ==<br />
I hope we get to find out if CPT. Price from CoD4 survived or not. That's been bugging me... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:47, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I think it would cheapen the ending of Modern Warfare 1 if he survived.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:51, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
How would that cheapen the ending of the first game? It was never clear if any of the team's survived. What about the Mile High Club mission where you hear Price and Gaz talk? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Gaz got shot in the face with a Desert Eagle, he's dead.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
Captain Price leads the Task Force in this game!<br />
<br />
No, Soap leads the Task Force<br />
<br />
Soap does sound kind of similar to Cpt. Price. I guess Price rubbed off on him a little or something.<br />
<br />
*Price managed to last for sixty years without ageing, dying or trimming his moustache, so I can't see a little thing like being shot dead getting to him. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 10:16, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well...I would like if he came back right at the end and save Soap and Roach. But, he better have a even glourious moustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, recalling CoD1 a little more, Price has ''already'' died once in the series. He was shot dead on board the ''Tirpitz'' and you just left him there, only for him to turn up again in CoD2 apparently none the worse for it. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 08:26, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Didn't COD2 take place before COD1?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Can't remember, to be honest, I didn't play it that much; I was busy being an Annoyed PC Gamer because they took away my quicksaves, fire modes and health packs and replaced them with Not Being Killed Grenades [throw one to not be killed by that machinegun!]. Still, this is his second death in the series, so I wouldn't expect it to cramp his style much. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 12:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Gaz and Griggs got wasted though.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:03, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Cpt. Price in CoD 1 and 2 is a diffrent Price, most probably grandfather. And it is unsure if Price died or if he got promoted and got a higher position...<br />
<br />
*Oh come on, it's either a clone or the same guy, they just came up with that when people started seriously questioning an extremely silly off-hand reference. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 07:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Don't talk about something you don't know sh¤t about... [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Price_(Call_of_Duty_4)] the two Cpt. Price are two diffrent guys<br />
<br />
*Two different, totally identical guys. It's an elaborate cover story to hide that Price is invincible and immortal. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Captain Price is a symbol representing the glourious British Military. Ok, he is just a tradition for the Guys at Infinity Ward but it would be really cool if he was a symbol.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Hes dead a russian medic was seen trying to revive him but failed an started bashing his chest<br />
<br />
Gaz... gone, .50 AE round to the face and you're done. Price... I doubt he'd be returning because let's face it he did die in COD4 and the Russian medic wouldn't have pounded his chest if he didn't die. As far as previous games go, Price was able to return because they didn't really have a tight storyline to them. But this Modern Warfare series does. So if Price returns, I think it'll be a bit ridiculous.<br />
:I like that they Replaced Price with Soap but there is one thing i don't like about it.<br />
<br />
No Glourious Mustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, but apparently Soap has a glorious Mohawk. And Price could be a good Zombie.<br />
<br />
Even if Price lived through the end of COD4, do you really think he'd still fight?<br />
:What reason would there be for him ''not'' to? Guys get wounded and go back to active duty all the time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Voice Actor, Billy Murray, has been confirmed as having worked on the project, if that's worth anything.<br />
:: Unfortunatly that could just end up being part of a flashback mission like in CoD 4. Here's hoping it's for a part of the main game.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
-Hes in the new trailer. Seriously, end of debate- k9870<br />
::If you're on about the guy on the assault boat, all we see is a guy in a boonie from behind. I'm going to withhold judgement until the game actually comes out.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At beginning of the Takedown level, Royce addresses "Bravo Six," Price's call sign from CoD4. Keep in mind that Captain Macmillan was Alpha Six, and that Soap's call sign is ''rumored'' to be Papa Six.<br />
:: Except Bravo six was also Lt Vasquez's callsign. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: Except that Vasquez died in a nuclear explosion. Price's odds of survival are much better that someone who was nuked, crashed in a helicopter, and then exposed to radiation. <br />
::: Hence my point, which is that the callsign is non-indicative. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think everyone here just needs to except that Cpt. Price has returned and is immortal like many other great men with Facial hair (I.E Gordan Freeman, Solid Snake, Chewbacca)<br />
:Actually chewbacca dies. Gets a moon crashing into him.-protoAuthor 05:22, 18 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
it has been rumored that captain price (billy murray) will return as the commander of the 22 reg along with SSGT griggs (somehow) due to the fact we have been told (through the twitter page) that the voice actors have been paid record their voices but even then thiers nothing from stoping them from making another flashback mission with them<br />
<br />
:Hence my original point. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:53, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
sorry ment to update that earlier CPT price is confirmed as retuning as the unit leader again after soap and roach break him out of a Russian prison (at that point price trys to kill roach but stops when he sees soap) the M1911 that you see on soap is the same as whats from MW1 which is returned to price then you can figure the rest out. end of story. regards scarec<br />
<br />
The voice actor of SSGT. Griggs from the first MW, came back as the narrator of the SEALs in multiplayer. Same as Craig Fairbrass does as Ghost for all the Special Ops missions and for Task Force 141 on multiplayer.<br />
<br />
:SEALs? Don't you mean Rangers? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
In Multiplayer, you have a different voice that announces the game for the Rangers. You would hear an american voice say "insert type of game", then he would say "Rangers lead the way". The voice of Griggs would say "insert type of game" then "let's do this", in mulitplayer, you can play middle easterns, Brazillians, russians, british, and Rangers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==General Observations==<br />
Though I freely admit I got wood watching this trailer one thing I noticed is that the guys from ''Infinity Ward'' seemed to have recycled some scenery. When they showed the guys running through the alleyways of Rio I swear it reminded me of the alleyways of the Arab capital the Marines run through in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]].<br />
<br />
:Not really. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The New pictures ==<br />
Could someone tell me where did that picture of the american soldier with the M4 came from?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/special-ops-characters --[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Jesus Christ, is the weapons section of that website all kinds of ed up. Thet called an FN-FAL a G3 and they called an AK-74 a AK-47. What the mother ? At least that means that we, IMFDB members, have the best website documenting weapons in Modern Warfare 2. But still, what the mother ?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
Is all the cussing necessary but yes I do agree that this website is the most reliable.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Wow... that site has the MP5 listed as being 40. S&W [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
LoL that site is horrible... if you think that page is bad just jump into the forums... all kinds of gems in there... read the one about the Taurus Raging Bull. the guy says "goodluck reloading its four barrels" <- That had me laughing with the stupidity of that statement. - Furious Oyster<br />
<br />
== TAR-21 or F2000? ==<br />
[[Image:MW2TR6.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Brazilian Militia firing the unknown rifle, presumably a[[FN F2000#FN F2000 Tactical|FN F2000 Tactical]]]]<br />
Isn't it a TAR-21 rather than a F2000?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's way too big to be a Tavor. Most likely an F2000.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah... the form is rather an F2000 too...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:My question is where the is the scope?-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 15:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::There is an version of the FN2000 that has the scope replaced with rails. I guess that's the one in the picture above.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Whats that under the F2000? Its too skinny to be an M203, I think its a shotugn--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 03:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Looks like an Remington 870.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
How the hell would they fit a shotgun/Masterkey on the three inches of forward rails that the F2000 has? More like a shotgun with an F2000 attachment, rather than the other way around.--[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well it definetly looks to be a shotgun, however it's mounted on there.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:I see it now. It is an F2000 with the shotgun attachment and the way the shotgun is attached makes the gun look retarded. They didn't make the SCAR's own grenade launcher attachment, so obviously they didn't do the F2000's attachment and worse, they didn't take off the removeable handguard and just put the M203 directly under the barrel, they had to slap it at the bottom of the damn thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
::I have heard however that the F2000s red dot sight in multiplayer is the standard F2000 optical sight, much like the TAR-21 uses the MARS sight in multiplayer as well, and the L86 uses the SUSAT in place of the ACOG. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::I've used F2000s with the standard scope in Special Ops and the L86 does indeed have a SUSAT (that thing is horrible, BTW) in place of the ACOG. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:37, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MP7? Are you sure? ==<br />
<br />
Where do you exactly see MP7?<br />
<br />
I only see custom MP5 (or MP5k without foregrip) on the right and two copies of another unidentified weapons on the left.<br />
They have curved magazines where MP7 has foregrip and their casing is completly different.<br />
MP7 doesn't match...<br />
[[User:Morihaus|Morihaus]] 17:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)Morihaus<br />
<br />
I saw a picture of it yesterday and i cant remember where. and i think it was a russian behind a shield, but im not sure if i remember that correctly. but the MP7 is definitely here -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
The MP7A1 is seen in the Reveal trailer in the hands of the Brazilian Secret Service agents fighting off an insurgent force from a crashed C-130-Kellers357<br />
<br />
== FAL Please ==<br />
<br />
I know one of the screenshots show's what appears to be an MD-2, but I still wanan see a FAL in MW2. I'm getting annoyed by G36Cs and M16s and G3KA4s in all these games. The FAL was a true combat rifle, and I do has want (sorry for net speak)--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 20:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: I absolutely agree with the above statement-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Me too but, the MD-2 is good enough for me. And it is Brazilian! That makes me proud of being Brazilian.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: I like the Imbel also, its a pretty solid gun-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Which Imbel? Imbel is the manufacturer.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Their FAL copy with the fixed stock (it's the only one I've held)-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 22:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Those are just called FN FALs.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::The Imbel is great and all, but the FAL is a solid 7.62 rifle. Also, I noticed they're using the AUG A1, not A3 for MW2. I'm pleased with that as the original AUG model was always my favorite.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:08, 26 June <br />
2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TDI "Kriss" ==<br />
I know the Kriss is going to be hyped in MW2, as its a powerful .45 ACP SMG that has virtually no recoil and great accuracy. But the guys at IW won't let such a perfect gun into multiplayer, because it'll turn into a noob weapon fast. My bet's on that they purposely change one of it's stats to make it more balanced. Any guesses on what they'll take away from it? My bet is make it less powerful.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There IS recoil in the Kriss. Every gun has recoil.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::True, but it varies what the recoil force actually ''does'' and how much of it the user feels; the recoil has to go somewhere, but it can be towards things like fighting the gun's own muzzle climb by shoving a weight downwards [as with the Kriss], stopping a barrel that's moving forwards [as with the XM307 / XM312], or quite a number of other things. The general idea is that the Kriss has very light felt recoil for its weight [less than half the weight of a Thompson] because of the novel operating system. And I imagine they'll either limit the magazine, turn it into a peashooter or make it horribly inaccurate. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 02:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or Infinity Ward could make the Kriss a Kicking Rad gun that you will get when you reach the highest level. An all around gun.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 02:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::What about the Rate of Fire? i don't remember if the Kriss had a high R.O.F. or not<br />
:::::From the Future Weapons video I watched on the Kriss, it seems to have an average MP5 like rate of fire. But if IW does let the Kriss go all out, it'll be revenge of the pwned when people get a hold of it. Take that noob tubers! Have some .45 slugs in the face!--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Hey man, the noob tube is awesome.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::People who hates tubers are just gamers. Sure I get off when I get hit in the face by an M203, but hell, I use one too. It's a very good field weapon. In combat, there is no such thing as cheap shot. There's hit and miss. Even in games, if you killed a guy, it's a kill, doesn't matter how you did it, unless you used cheats, but I use the M203 all the time, and 2 shells is what you get in multiplayer, so quit complaining, those on the recieving end of my tube. Now the P90 was a widely used gun for noobs cause of it's high ROF and mag capacity and with the slight of hand perk, you can reload the faster than you could in real life[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::People who complain about tubes in modern games don't remember the days of real noob-tubes, back when the 203 was your alt fire, had realistically-sized splash and had a zero arming distance, and a newbie could easily end a game with a positive score just by firing it point-blank whenever they had more than one person in front of them. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 07:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
I agree i just hate the loss of a perk its better than juggernaut.--[[User:Panther61DC08|Panther61DC08]] 20:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::ANYTHING is better then juggernaut man. And yeah, I use the M203 from time to time, but people who use it constantly should really just go sit down.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Most online gamers are idiots who most likely don't know the difference between a bullet and a bolt carrier, so they're going to label anyone who kills them a [insert gun name here] noob. If you kill them with an M4, you're an M4 noob. If you kill them with a P90, you're a P90 noob. If you kill them with a shotgun, you're a shotgun noob. It never ends. The point of playing a game is to have fun, so I'm gonna use what I like to use (including the 203) regardless of what everyone else thinks about it. If I nail some tit in the face with a 40 mike-mike, they can whine and cry "noob tuber" all f'n day, it isn't going to change that I put a 40 mike-mike into their face. Only thing about me is that I can do it from a block away (an in-game block, I mean), rather than at point blank. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
:I have a Class that it's specialty is to piss people off. Yes, i am a asshole. BUT, i am a professional asshole.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As far as the Kriss goes they sure as hell have never fired it (which disappoints me that they put all these exotic weapons in that they really havent touched... in COD4 they actually fired most of the weapons and that gave it a level of authenticity) so i dont think they'll pay attention to the fact that it takes most of the recoil for you. when you fire it youll probably be shooting all over the place with heavy recoil -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
::Well looky here, an icon for picking up a "FAL Red Dot sight" In the Multiplayer trailer. There is a god, because the FN FAL has finally made it into an awesome game![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 05:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Kriss does seem to have a comparably short barrel to the UMP. IW could lower the damage due to the lower velocity? not sure what barrel length is ideal for .45ACP but I just thought that could be used as a reason to balance? that and the Kriss only uses the .45 Glock pistol mags correct? so maybe your attachment is an extended mag to help compete? -FuriousOyster<br />
<br />
:From what we've seen, the Kriss in MW2 is already being used with the experimental 26 round magazine currently being developed for the gun. As for barrel length, it's on par with the UMP, plus its shorter overall. Who knows, maybe IW will just make the Kriss what it is in real life, a hard and precise hitting sub machine gun. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Apparently IW got the Kriss right on how controllable it is when firing on full auto. It doesn't go all over the place. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The Vector is stunningly good. A bit down on power, but accurate and it can handle it's high ROF. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:Been unlocking the attachments for the Vector and it is kind of nerf on the power. It's really not the strong, but has a high rate of fire and accuracy [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== HK416? ==<br />
<br />
Possible HK416-<br />
<br />
The SAS guy with the Mohawk & Glock @ 0:30 of the reveal trailer seems to carry something resembling an HK416 (Notice the rear H&K hallmark diopter sights...).<br />
--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 15:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Thats actually Soap. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
that is either the M4 or M468(most likely an M4)<br />
<br />
Why would they add the HK 416? Internally it's far superior to the M4, but as far as video games go they're virtually the same.<br />
<br />
I hope they don't. It's not that I necessarily hate the HK416 (well, okay, maybe I do ''a little bit''), but let's give LWRC's or Colt's gas pistons some love. The 416 and XM8 are way overused in shooters today. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
:And the rear sight on Soap's M4 looks more like an ARMS #40L to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:Again, why do people think that when they see a cool looking AR15 in a game or a movie shot they RIGHT AWAY say, HK416 or M468 AKA REC7 as it is called now.? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::Because a lot of people are so fracking biased against DI guns that it's crazy. They're quick to tout the AK's widespread use as an example of its so-called "superiority", but that same argument means "absolutely nothing" to the same people when it's applied to the M4 and variants ''chosen'' by elite forces all over the planet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:34, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
yeah, i agree, it is ridiculous, especially since you can upgrade an m4 to perform exactly like any of the other new weapons and do it for a $1,000 cheaper. it makes you wonder why were even replacing the m4?<br />
:Same reason the army bought a new grenade launcher: It's shiny and new. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
Well you have to think about the old saying. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. But with weapon systems, they do get out dated and don't last forever. Eventually it's naturally to want to replace what you have now even though it's an effective piece of equipment that's served you for many years. Think back when the M16 was first introduced. It got so much crap from the old timers in the military that it took almost a decade to get it fielded. And now the M16 is a beloved icon of American power and loved by millions. Times change and so would weapons. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:55, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==FN P90==<br />
Why haven't anyone added the P90? It has been confirmed and in the E3 trailer there was a pickup icon for the P90 and it said "Press # to ick up P90"<br />
:Did you miss [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Modern_Warfare_2#FN_P90TR this?]-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Re-added ==<br />
Hey evryone Activision has decided to re-add the Call of Duty prefix back to the Modern Warfare 2 title making the game now being called: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, instead of just Modern Warfare 2? Actvision added the Call of Duty prefix because of the lowered awareness of the Call of Duty series [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 17:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:So we're changing the name again on this site? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The changing is not official yet. They're still calling the game "''Modern Warfare 2''" (source: [http://kotaku.com/5315981/infinity-ward-talks-modern-warfare-2-43-stories-up]). In fact, nobody at Activision or Infinty Ward ever called the game "''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2''", search any quotes you want. Also, the hardened and prestiges editions (collector versions) don't have "''Call of Duty''" on their boxes.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 14:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Walther WA2000 ==<br />
Does someone has an ingame picture of this game, because I doubt its presence in the game. And there is no use for a weapon to be listed if there is no proof.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I strongly concur with Phantom. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:16, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Behold, a really, really silly bundle: ==<br />
<br />
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=219720<br />
<br />
I can understand doing that for something like a ''Splinter Cell'' bundle (sorta), but... [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 08:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm so getting that... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
NVG's that max out to 50 feet, failll<br />
<br />
:*facedesk* Behold, NVGs for less then 200 with a $70 game and art book, Who wants to bet those are made by a company who's name you can't pronounce and is based in a country that rhymes with Dina? Anyhow, I already pre-ordered the standard game, I don't need fancy art books and hard cases and crappy NVGs, I just want what may be the best FPS ever created, period. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I'm don't want the nod to use, I just want them as a bad-@$$ display for the living room. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
== Cover Restoration ==<br />
Does anyone have any unique or expensive software to put this image on the front page?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Cover.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Original]]<br />
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Final.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The best I could do.]]<br />
<br />
It's not the standard edition box.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:06, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== SPAS-12? ==<br />
Do you think this shotgun is a SPAS-12? Since we were shown that there is one in this level during a gameplay demo, it could be possible.<br />
[[Image:MW2shotgunspa.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
<br />
its a FAMAS- the folded bipod<br />
<br />
:Nope, it's a WA2000<br />
<br />
::The Walther WA2000 has a "skeletal" look to it and is a bolt-action sniper rifle. This image shows the weapon having a pump gauge at the bottom, meaning that it must be some sort of shotgun, as opposed to the WA2000's bolt-action. <s>Besides, I may be mistaken since I don't pay much attention to the FAMAS, but the last time I checked, the FAMAS didn't have a folding stock.</s> --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Sorry, I didn't see that you meant "bipod", not "stock". I don't see the point in the FAMAS having one of those, either. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's not a shotgun, the "handgrip" is too long to be a pump like you were saying, i agree with the fact that it is a WA2000, it has the same front end and flash hider as the walther. By the way, the walther can be either semi or bolt action.<br />
<br />
yeah i think its a Wa200 too, you can even see a fat ol' scope and a bipod on it. look real close for the scope.<br />
<br />
Now that I think about it, it looks more of a WA200, if not a SPAS-12, and it is definitely not a FAMAS. And please, fellas, sign your edits. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Confirmed Weapons ==<br />
Could someone tell me where those weapons were confirmed?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Which one?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::All of them. But if you can only confirm only one, then confirm the MD3.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::For the Imbel, I think it's almost sure. It has the look, it's Brazil... But it can still be a FAL... For the others like G36, Walter WA2000 or HK416, I will delete them until they provide us screenshots or other proofs that these weapons will be in the game. They think because modernwarfare247.com has listed them, it will be in the game but it's just a fansite, not an official one, and they don't have ingame screens to prove like us.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, the Imbel Makes sense to be in the game.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The forearm looks more like an Imbel than a FAL too.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Does this help on the FAL?<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Fal_online_vid.png<br />
[[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]]<br />
:HELL YES. Thank god there is a FAL in this. And, yes that helps on the FN FAL.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:53, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::So, it's almost sure that the weapons carried by the brazilians are FAL? I don't think they will include two weapons pretty identical... Unless they changed the rate of fire on each weapon much like the M4/M16 AR.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:02, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's the Imbel but Infinity Ward named it FN FAL. Like the AKMSU/AK-74S fuck up in Modern Warfare 1.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think its the fal, it looks like it uses a bigger magazine therefore a bigger round, the MD 3 uses 223, the fal uses 308<br />
::I noticed that too. It looks like a FN FAL with an 30 round magazine. But look at the Forearm. It looks like an MD-3 forearm to me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::But it could be based on the DSA SA-58, which has a shorter fore end, and curved .308 mags do exist. Either way though, a FAL in Mw2 is win in my books. Infact, here's a nice picture that may help that theory, [url]http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg[/url] [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Terribly disappointed that the 1911 is not used in multiplayer - JanG<br />
<br />
:Not just disappointing, it's a crime. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:54, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M4==<br />
<br />
The M4 used in the game had been confirmed as a Bushmaster M4. According to one of the guys working on MW2 he has told in the Call of Duty wikia that the M4 is a Bushmaster M4.... Could someone add that??<br />
<br />
:wheres the proof?<br />
<br />
::As of now, nothing can be added to the main article since there are no sources or evidence that provide the actual facts. Do you happen to have a link of the official statement? I think what he means is that the M4 (when mounted with sights or scopes) looks like a Bushmaster ORC (Optics-Ready Carbine), since it's rear and front sights are already removed. But just because it looks like it doesn't mean it has to be a Bushmaster. And again, guys, please sign your edits. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 21:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The M4 IS a Bushmaster! And proof is right here on IMFDB! I took this from the pic of Soap and enlarged it.<br />
<br />
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm97/SpartanWarrior198/Soap_Bushmaster_M4.jpg<br />
<br />
Snake logo on the mag well is Bushmaster's. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And I just noticed Soap is wearing US Army UCP, as well... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:So what? In this fictional universe, Bushmaster makes all the M4s? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, true, but this is a video game set in the near future. It could very well be possible that Bushmaster took over M4 production from Colt (since their exclusivity agreement expired back in June) in the Modern Warfare world.[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And I doubt IW would put two or more different identical "M4s" in the game. I can see an M4 and HK416 or REC7 put side-by-side in the game because there are some slight external differences (and caliber increase in the case of the REC7), but there'd be no point in having separate Colt and Bushmaster M4s, both virtually identical externally, at the same time. But then again the still above could very well be just promotional with a Bushmaster put in because it's all they had available to model. But we'll find out for sure Nov. 10th... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Hmm... Bushmaster may have used the Call of Duty franchise to advertise for their weapons, as seen on the lower receiver of the M4. Maybe likely, maybe not; but it is a possibility. Cheers, --{{User:Blemo/Sig}}<br />
::::HK did it with R6, so why can't Bushmaster do it with MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1887==<br />
<br />
No way this is a winchester 1887, you have to out of your mind to think that.<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:MW2Winch1887.jpg<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Winchester1887shotgun.jpg<br />
<br />
yeah dude there's one in there, it must be like a cheat code to get it but there is a picture.<br />
<br />
I dought you need a cheat code to get it as the enemy you can kill and take their weapons have it. <br />
Also it could be the Chinese copy.<br />
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
There was a ''Public Ennemies'' version of the weapon which was closer to the one in the screenshot, but it has been deleted.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I think it would be peculiar to have the old lever shotgun in MW2, but definitely a cool choice of gun. It may not be the fastest or most powerful, but it has nostalgia and cool to it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It could be like the Stg-44 from COD4, a retro weapon. <br />
It was called MP44 in Cod4 not Stg-44 that was in W@W just trying to help. -FuriousOyste<br />
: The MP44/StG-44 was only in CoD4 as a nod to the other games in the franchise which are all set during WW2. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Maybe you can unlock Price's mustache as a nod to his awesomely awesome mustache from MW1? =D -FuriousOyster<br />
<br />
Since IW seem to be going along the "fun" route while still sticking to a semi-realism point of view, it's probably safe to assume this was added as a "fun gun". It's likely with the recent videos of the "Flag Runner" and the addition of throwing knives there adding weapons that no serious soldier would use in direct combat but would be awesome to use a video game multiplayer match. It's possible they added it as a reference to Terminator 2, I wonder if they'll add the M79 and a portable minigun... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:11, 02 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There should be two reload animations. The first one you reload normally but in the second one you reload like the T-600, With one goddamm hand.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That was only chambering fresh rounds, not reloading it, but I see your poit. Either way though, having an old school lever action shotty will surely make things, uh, interesting? And throwing knives will just attract goddamn ninjas. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ninjas that I'll gladly lay waste to in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Amen to that man, they can throw all the knives they want, but that won't stop them from taking a burst of FAL rounds in the chest. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"Those who live by the sword get shot by the ones who don't". Ninja's were cowards anyways. They retreated rather than fought most of the time-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:05, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Not to mention that was against bows and arrows, not automatic rifles. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
for the reload animations I think the shells are being loaded in to the barrel!!<br />
<br />
:No my friend, thats just how you load a lever shotgun. The tube you load the shells in to is the magazine, and the tube below it is where they eject from when you cock the gun after a shot. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Don't debate on the articles ==<br />
<br />
Stop debating on the page do it in here that's what it is for.<br />
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am confused you say not to debate here but then you say to debate here. I am new to this.<br />
::Jake, can you speak english?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I mean don't debate on the main page with the articles it clutters it.--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 05:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::What Jake means, is that to hold all disputes, comments, and debates on the discussion (talk) page, instead of the article itself. The page you are looking at is the talk page and you should type any comments on this page. If you look at the top, there are seven tabs (varies on your status and monobook of the wiki), but for more users, it says, "page, discussion, edit, +, history, move, & watch". Make sure the "discussion" tab is pressed before you make your edit. Typing in the tab that says "page" makes the article look unprofessional and a hassle to read. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 21:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::I'll move all the discussion here...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 13:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Glock ==<br />
The GameTrailers Analysis states that it is a [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22]], but this is unconfirmed. It could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] since in the video demo shown at the E3 conference, it fires fully automatically. <br />
[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] - 9x19mm. This model has compensator cuts on the slide and barrel to reduce muzzle climb while firing]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Glock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A [[Glock]] fired by "Roach" on a snowmobile in Mission "Cliffhangar". Note olive-drab frame.]]<br />
[[Image:MW2SpOpGlock.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This US special ops has a olive-drab framed Glock in his thigh holster (barely off-shot).]]<br />
<br />
*An interesting note is that the Glock fires dramatically slower than a Glock 18 or other converted Glocks. The Glock from the video's rate of fire is only around 600-700 RPM, where as a real Automatic Glock fires around 1100+ RPM -- Mythekal<br />
<br />
:The guy COULD just be firing in semi VERY fast so that it seems like it's full auto. A lot of the handguns in COD4 if you tap the trigger in quick successions, it seems almost full auto [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". Glock 18's did not have this color available. Glock 22's just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a Glock 18 with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.<br />
<br />
:::Not to disagree with you, I mean, you strike a really good point, but I've seen video game companies butcher their weapons into having colors or functions that they don't even have in the first place. Perhaps this is the case, although highly unlikely. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:08, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not sure if anybody noticed, but the G18s in game does not have a selector switch - JanG<br />
<br />
== H&K USP .45 ==<br />
Shown in a stage demo for GameSpot, Roach wields it with a knife at the same time. There is a similar technique where you do this with a flashlight. If someone would care to name it please do as I forgot for the moment.<br />
<br />
*Take your pick from CQC, CQB, Combatives or Defendu. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
** The particular technique shown below with the support arm under the wrist of the main arm indexing the flashlight along the axis of the barrel is called the Harris Method. In this case it's being done with a knife presumably because it looks cool.<br />
*** It's actually done for CQC and not just cause it looks cool. A similar method to this is what Snake does on MGS.But he holds the Knife with the gun by the grips.Perhaps the Harries method is more comfortable than Snake's CQC method,so they made it that way.<br />
**** <br />
[[Image:HK-USP.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch USP .45 ACP. Note the slightly longer barrel/slide and grip compared to the 9mm and .40 S&W models above.]]<br />
[[Image:USP_with_knife.JPG|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
== Akimbo ==<br />
<br />
*Need some confirmation on this as I cant find any videos or images of this, supposedly the player is now able to Dual wield or go Akimbo with Pistols, particularly twin desert eagles were seen in a demonstration during a show off session to fans. <br />
<br />
This is one of the websites with this article:<br />
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/08/27/modern-warfare-2-has-guns-akimbo/1<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
<br />
:There was a screenshot of the Desert Eagle being held akimbo during a gameshow in Vegas (the name of which I forgot...) I'm not sure if it was already added to the article, but I'll take a look. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Now Akimbo? I'm having less and less faith in this new game with most of these cliche shit added on. We got too many kinds of new guns enough to put Rainbow Six to shame, odd matches for people and prototype guns in wide use. This game went from pretty cool to up down cliche generic shooter. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Leaked Video ==<br />
<br />
Found this video while searching the net on youtube. <br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FuwFT4p5hA<br />
<br />
At 1:28 there appears to be a new weapon, it looks like it says "Shotgun" but the video is low qaulity and I'm having a hard time finding out what it is? The icon image looks similar to that of a Saiga shotgun but I'm not sure. From the looks of it, the IMI Mini Uzi will be making a return.<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
[[Image:Mw2brazilshotgun.png]] I think it says (litterally) "FAL w/ Shotgun"... Shotgun attachment?!--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
MASTERKEY! that would be awesome! on the other hand... COD4 shotguns were pretty pointless. so I doubt an even shorter barreled one would be worth it.<br />
<br />
:Yeah, there have been rumors of an under-slung shotgun attachment. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That does surely say FAL with Shotgun, as it matches the shape of the other FAL seen in a trailer, sweet! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
also confirmed in game masterkey is avalible -scarecrow<br />
<br />
== Continuity Error(??) ==<br />
<br />
Perhaps, in the E3 Gameplay video, the Infinity Ward boyz made a continuity error. If you will, note that Roach is first seen using a USP .45, but later, on the snowmobile, he switches to a Glock 18/22/whatever. Just a thought.<br />
<br />
:Doubt it. games arn't that sloppy. Its probably given to you when you board the snowmobile because firing a semiautomatic weapon while you are going pretty fast wouldn't help much unless you have a very steady hand. better to have a wide spread than accuracy when you cant predict the enemy that well. [[user:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
::Well apparently you are able to equip 3 weapons?, but that still wouldn't explain how he got that glock.<br />
<br />
:::What 5t3v0 says is true. Video game developers aren't that sloppy and I think that the publishers purposefully made this so-called "continuity error". I think that the Glock is for use only for the snowmobile portion of the mission, since its high rate of fire (compared to the HK USP .45) is more ideal for tracking and shooting fast-moving vehicles. Many other video games during their vehicle missions use the same logic (i.e. a mounted machine gun on the snowmobile in [[007: Nightfire]]). --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::There's one on each of the snowmobiles, There's a holster somewhere.<br />
<br />
Okay first of all, i know you know its just a game, so thats my first statement, and my second is, who says you cant have another holster on you, one on your thigh, one on your rig, or two on both your thighs? and then you either have access to it in the game or you dont, and we can all pretend like roach just doesnt want to use it until the snowmobile thing or something like that.<br />
<br />
== New mw video ==<br />
<br />
Gentlemen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4PMRFkx07g<br />
<br />
<br />
Damn, the MP5K Looks SWEET! And throwing knives? kick-ass!!! man as soon as this is released im disowning my copy of COD4.<br />
<br />
== Double Barrel Shotty ==<br />
<br />
According to the guys over at the COD Wiki, the Double barrel shotgun will make a return(from COD5), has anyone else seen this?<br />
<br />
* It's possible with the inclusion of other "fun" weapons like the Winchester M1887 and Throwing knives, but I'm not going to get my hopes up about it... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:18, 02 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:Try not to include wiki as a source unless there's pics of the actual shotgun ingame. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:41, 2 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The OXM stated that (Official Xbox Magazine). The DB shotgun will have separate trigger for each barrel.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:44, 3 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::You said it will make a return, it never was in cod4, or are you referring to cod5? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 15:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Sorry, shouldve been a little clearer, i was referring to cod5<br />
<br />
== Mk14 Rifle ==<br />
<br />
The Mk14 on the screenshot is not a Mk14 Mod0 battle rifle but a Mk14 Mod1 ([http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/albums/closeup/Mk_14_Mod_1.jpg]), the second modification. Still based on the M14/M1A battle rifle/semi-auto rifle, but using M4 grip and stock with the EBR chassis. The version used by soaped also seems to sport a Magpul MOE stock with cheek rest.<br />
<br />
Now that I see that new picture on the page with the mk14 in it I think that it is also a mod 1. Who else is thinks so?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
== Highrise Gameplay videos (Cam) ==<br />
<br />
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/modern-warfare-2/11043<br />
<br />
Just saw this today, the "trailer" section also has a trailer cam of a predator missile and a supply drop, it also shows off the UMP45.<br />
<br />
The newer highrise videos show a few weapons in the game that would now be deemed confirmed to a degree. It's labelled 1 through 5 in parts. They all feature different guns, I remember seeing two icons, one which was thought to be a place holder, the L85 was displayed as the L86 LSW (maybe an attachment for the L85?) including a PP-2000 Akimbo. Other's include various MG's which I can't identify, a SPAS-12 shotgun in full view (with appropriate icon) and the FAMAS and UMP.<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The videos from Gametrailers also seem to show a silenced SPAS 12, which should be fun. <br />
<br />
[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:14, 16 September 2009<br />
<br />
== New video confirms a few weapons==<br />
<br />
A few weapons are probably confirmed by this video from Screwattack, PP-2000 amongst them.<br />
http://www.screwattack.com/Events/MW2HandsOn<br />
[[User:DAnnysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 14:39, 16 September 2009<br />
<br />
:Just from watching, I saw the FAMAS, RPD, M4, SCAR, PP2000, AT4 (now a weapon not a perk, and more.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] <br />
00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
everything in the game is now content locked. that means any weapon seen will be in the final game<br />
<br />
happy hunting<br />
<br />
==Zombie Mode==<br />
<br />
Any idea if theyll have one?<br />
<br />
No they wont. Instead they have a spec-ops mode. Besides, its not cool of Infinity ward to copy treyarchs thing. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]<br />
<br />
Yeah, especially when Treyarch has made an entire career out of copying Infinity Ward<br />
<br />
== Create A Class Menu ==<br />
<br />
Several weapons,perks, and attachments have now been confirmed in a new video's on youtube including [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], [[PP-2000]], [[M79 grenade launcher]], [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]], [[RPD light machine gun]], [[Franchi SPAS-12]] and much more. <br />
<br />
Source: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s]<br />
<br />
[[Image:CreateAClass.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Create a Class Menu.]]<br />
<br />
== Infamy (New Trailer) ==<br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8toHfZm6jNE<br />
<br />
The Guy in the Airport wearing a black suit (presumably this Makarov character) looks like he was carrying a SCAR-L but then I noticed the RIS rails to which it was just a regular M4. It was weird how they made look very similar to the SCAR-L, yet at 1:31 in the Infamy trailer there's a guy with outline of the SCAR-L. It looks like the "Mini-Uzi" is now confirmed to be apart of the machine pistol lineup of weapons. Also does anyone think the AK at 0:57 looks odd? Kinda looks to me like a AN-94. - [[Draco122|Draco122]] 07:07 05 October 2009<br />
<br />
*The weapon Makarov was holding looked like an M4 to me, but I think your right about the Mini-Uzi being a machine pistol now. And as for the AK it looked like the rest of the AKs I've seen from ingame pictures and footage. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 20:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The guy is holding an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Russian tactical team that responded to the airport attack were referred by Makarov as FSBs. Even though they did deploy from SWAT vans marked as FSB, the Russian soldiers actually wear MVD uniforms, meaning that they were actually interior troops.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 18:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wall of guns ==<br />
<br />
Just got this off of Gametrailers TV. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[Image:MW2wallofguns.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
*Too late, man.)<br />
<br />
== Sentry Gun ==<br />
<br />
On Gamesrader.com, an article on the impressions of MW2, mentions a Sentry Gun in the Kill Streak list. After doing some research, I've found a supposed concept of the Sentry Gun on Modernwarfare247.com. Apparently it seems to be the XM312 .50Cal fitted with a Camera. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[Image:Leaked-mw2-art-book-12.jpg|300px|thumb|none|XM312]]<br />
<br />
<br />
maybe its a .50BMG on a CROWS-type system<br />
<br />
:The Sentry Gun in the game is an M134 on a tripod, as I've used some in MP. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Screenshot==<br />
<br />
The first two are Scars, the second has a Masterkey, the third with an ACOG doesnt quite look right, and I cant tell what the digital one is, any help?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Mw2scars.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
<br />
The two on the right might be ACR's--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 03:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The digital one is the bushmaster ACR. It looks a little funny but that is it.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
== W2000 ==<br />
<br />
I'm not 100% certain on this, but isn't the W2000 a collector's sniper rifle? I mean this is a rather expensive sniper rifle made as a colector's rifle. So why would the military be using it in whatever war this game takes place in?<br />
<br />
And we're supposed to know the thought process behind Infinity Ward's weapon decisions how?<br />
<br />
Remember the game black where w2000s were just laying all over eastern europe?<br />
<br />
:Yeah, ever since Black came out, WA2000s have been known to be laying all across Europe, ripe for the picking! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Haha Agent 47 spends thousands of dollars just to maintain one yet European armies can buy millions of them just to lay around randomly :P<br />
<br />
From my play through, I can only find one. The one you see on the wall of guns picture.<br />
<br />
I've seen them in several missions. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Unfocused ==<br />
<br />
This game is looking more and more gimmicky by the day. It's as if they're going all out to jam as much modern technology into the game as possible, whether it makes sense or not. Brazilian militia with FN F2000 assault rifles? Russian terrorists with the TDI Vector? ''Really''? --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 08:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's true that I feel the game is adding so much new stuff it won't be anything like CoD4. It bothers me that Infinity Ward is going over the top just because of its huge fanbase.<br />
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
For those of you who have seen "Lord of War", remember Nicolas Cage's quote: "Where there's a will, there's a weapon." I'm sure that their theory for the MW2 universe is that some FN or TDI salesmen forgot who they were working for, and sold their latest & greatest weapons to the bad guys, and got paid more in a day or two than they would earn working for a decade. I believe that money is the most corrupting force on Earth. Also, I do recall a story about some F2000s winding up in the hands of a militia in East Timor a few years ago, and I'm not sure whether or not FN figured out how they got there. <br />
-KLR<br />
:I've heard of this happening with a custom M14 maker. One of their people was rebuilding some MK14Mod0 on the side and smuggling them to the phillipines if i rememger correctly. The man was caught and is spending a long vacation is club fed. --[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As much as I agree that the weapons are going a little crazy (how the hell do Brazilians in the slums of Rio get their hands on such powerful NATO weaponry?), remember this game isn't set in the present day, its sometime in 2016 I think. So who knows, in that year the rarer weapons of today may be more widely available. Unlikely I know, but possible. [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 10:45, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And besides, the game would be very boring if everyone had AK's. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not exactly. Im not liking the whole high end weapons idea for militia. I would have been fine seeing militia using ak variants and other common battle rifles. --[[User:mythekal|mythekal]]<br />
<br />
You must remember that all gangs in Rio get majority of there weapons from buying over seas and from corrupt military and police units, who themselves have stockpiles of powerful NATO weapons (M4s, AKs, FNs,etc.). And the Brazilian militia's leader is an Arms Dealer who has ties with the Ultranationalists, any Arms dealer that big can afford to give his men some much more flashier weapons! Also this is just a game too!--[[User:Choi117|Choi117]]<br />
<br />
In the first game the russians had g36cs, ak-47s, m9s and 1911s, not like, ak-74s and makarovs. In this they seem to have gone to just having tacticool bullpups and high-end everything.....I laugh if you pick p an m9 in brazil even though your infinitely more likely to get a taurus pt92.<br />
<br />
<br />
One aspect of Modern Warfare 2 is notably the fact, that although not identified by developers, is the way in which the worlds runs, MONEY!, believe it or not but the American government has been dealing arms for years, all to up there pay check, the result is quite devastating, its give there own troops a disadvantage but what do they care money's, money, they would give nuclear weapons to iraq if there was enough money.<br />
<br />
:Actually, the American government deals arms mainly to friendly nations and used to deal arms to CIA backed insurgencies. So, you know, they wouldn't be selling things like NUKES you moron. As far as the purchase of these weapons, just consider Mexico today: You have a 'military' (if you can really call the Mexican Army a military) where 250,000 soldiers have left to work for a drug cartel or just left the country, leaving their rifles with the cartels. Then you have those same cartels buying firearms from third world SA countries that were provided firearms by the US for insurgencies. Then you have cartels buying firearms from people very similar to Cage's character in Lord of War. In 2016, it's more than believable taht those dealers could be selling ill-gotten FN2000's to wherever they damn well please.<br />
<br />
I think that they are adding all of these guns because after Zakheav died the ultranationalists kinda fell apart and now they use anything they get their hands on so some of their guys probably decided too buy their own guns and thought they might as weel go big.<br />
<br />
- If you think this game is unfocused you haven't seen the 25 kill streak perk yet! A Freaking Tactical Nuke, I'm not joking: http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/modern-warfare-2-25th-killstreak/333858[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
That idea makes the game sound more ridiculous than it already is. This is way over the top now.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Can someone explain what "in egoview" means? pictures have the caption something like "the SPAS-12 in egoview " somethign like that. Is it suposed to mean first-person view, only written by someone with poor english?<br />
: Presumably it refers to First-Person view. If you look, all the HUD text in those shots is in German. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M21 EBR ==<br />
<br />
Just to make sure no one changes it back. Even though it doesn't technically exist, that is what its called in game. The logic behind the name is: M21 (Sniperized M14) + M14 EBR (Modernized M14) = Modernized Sniperized M14 = M21 EBR<br />
<br />
Alright, to be blunt, I LOVE the M14. Whenever I used one in Call of Duty 4, it was like the second coming of Jesus Christ. I just got done reading that the M14 used in this game is, as said above, a M21 EBR, and is classified as a sniper rifle. When I found that out I was extremely pissed. What I don't get though, is that in the Breach and Clear video that is out there, there is clearly a Mk. 14, with open iron sights. Based on all of this bullcrap, it appears that you will not be able to use the M14/Mk.14 EBR/M21 EBR/or-whatever-the-heck-we-are-calling-it without a scope. I am aware that MW2 is somehow sneaking out into people's Xbox's already, and I would greatly appreciate if someone could elaborate on this?[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 00:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Putting a scope on a Mark 14 doesn't change its designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:52, 8 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
Been checking with various sources on M14's and this M21 EBR is just an M14 fitted into a Sage Stock. it's nothing more than the numerous M14's I've seen used as a DMR.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:35, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I say we just stick with calling it Mark 14 Mod 1 and note in the description that its in-game name is M21 EBR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And, while I've not yet played MP, every instance of Mark 14 use in SP refers to it as "M14 EBR". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:03, 11 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It's officially called the M21 EBR in MP. However a friend of mine tells me when fitted with an ACOG it makes for an alright assault type rifle. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::Still a Mark 14 as far as this site is concerned. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::And what pisses me off the most is that besides the scope and smaller magazine. it's a Mark 14 EBR. Why IW decided to turn it into a sniper is beyond me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::::I'd imagine they did it for balance, can't have a sniper rifle with a 20 shot magazine. Unless you get extended mags then maybe it might be better I dont know [[Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
::::::I don't see how that's supposed to balance anything. 20 round magazine or not, a sniper rifle is still a sniper rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Two new videos ==<br />
This is the level you get for beating the game.<br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhjh8KxFPkg<br />
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czJEO8skB64<br />
<br />
Damn good videos, I'll have a lot of fun with that museum :D Does this mean theres not going to be any semi-auto assualt rifles? Everything seems to be full auto in those videos...:( [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 19:38, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
in the video description it says that the person playing was using rapid fire.<br />
<br />
They likely removed the use of the G3 and M14 from Multiplayer due to people using the modified controllers to enable rapid firing, though I remember seeing that "Rapid Fire" was being made as an Attachment for weapons, not something I'd imagine seeing in singleplayer [[Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
:An added note about the "Museum" level is a button on the front desk. Press it and all the soldiers in the exhibits come alive and try to kill you! Good fun if you stock up from the weapons cases first. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Wow, Dual wielding all subguns?==<br />
<br />
watched video of dual mp5ks and p90s........wtf is wrong here?<br />
<br />
Where is this video?<br />
<br />
:Even worse, I heard it was possible to dual wield shotguns. [citation needed] Yeah, ordinarily I wouldn't just put that out there without a source, but given all the other stupid decisions IW have been making lately, I can believe it. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 01:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
you dual wield sawn off doubles, its showed in museum gameplay.<br />
<br />
:Wouldn't firing a sawed off one handed dislocate your shoulder?-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not necessarily, but that doesn’t mean it is the smartest way to shoot a firearm. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 05:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
You know what this means, every noob on the planet will be duel wielding in MW2 like it's Halo 3 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:23, 7 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Meh, who cares? Yeah, I think dual wielding is an action movie cliche, too, but I'll just play the game the way I want and everyone else will do the same. It most likely won't be long until people are whining and crying about "dual wield noobs" like they do about so-called "noob-tubers". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah, i use a noob tube on one of my classes myself, it may piss people off, but snipers piss me off. Besides, its not like the noob toob is good in close quarters, it only holds two rounds and has slow ass reloads. I use mine to countersnipe when they try and hide behind cover.<br />
<br />
:I only use noob tube when coming up against a map with lots of trenches or caves or buildings, the better to lob nades into. I prefer the ACOG in MW2, as now it doesn't suck like in CoD: 4 [[Special:Contributions/142.166.195.174|142.166.195.174]] 18:08, 11 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Anyone who cries about what weapons, perks, or attachments another player is using needs to either learn how to adapt to the environment and opposition or quite playing multi-player altogether. "ZOMG! He killed me with a grenade launcher! Not fair! Waaah waaah waaah!" Some people just need to grow the feck up and stop being pansies. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:49, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I agree. the M203 is a useful tool. so are shotguns, i was sick of hearing "SHOTGUN NOOB!" after the first time i heard it. now this is just an opinion but when indoors and within the effective range, i dont think theres a better weapon. they provide a large spread pattern that can be useful in high stress situations. im not saying you dont have to aim a shotgun at close range, but neutralizing a threat can be easier with with buckshot (defense loads) than with a single slug from a pistol or rifle. in my opinion there is no "noob" weapon. when they are all used properly, each individual weapon serves a specific purpose. cheap tactics is what makes a bad player in my eyes. someone who uses a high capacity weapon (P90, Light Machine Gun) while sitting in one spot picking off players who are trying to have fun and play "right" just ruins the expirience for everyone else. and in my expirience these "campers" are the ones who cry like babies when THEY get dead at the hands of a P90 or shotgun. but thats just my opinion.--[[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] 17:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I don't particularly think ''any'' tactic is cheap (nor any weapon a "noob" weapon), no matter how "unfair" an advantage one thinks it gives. Some tactics are just simply more successful than others. The fact is that MW2 is a '''war''' game, and so goes the old saying ''all's fair in love and war''. If a machine gun camper kills me, so what? I'll just respawn and continue with the game. But that's the point, it's a ''game''. Some people take games way too seriously. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:For me, my response to ppl calling others and me campers or sniper whore, noob tuber. I just reply "It's a legitimate strategy". Don't get mad, get EVEN. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:50, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Totally agree. I mean, I could possibly be wrong, but isn't "camping" essentially what snipers and machine gunners ''actually do'' in real life? I know it was last time I checked... And I sure as heck wouldn't want an M40A5 to clear a room with. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:07, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RIOT SHIELD ==<br />
<br />
Just played the game and i have to admit the riot shield is the most fun weapon to use in multi-player. Bashing enemies to death is extremely gratifying. - JanG<br />
<br />
<br />
i love when people use it, theyre easier to kill. Especially with the knife. If you are anywhere but directly in front of them they cant block it.<br />
<br />
-k9870<br />
<br />
That, sticky grenades, and powerful caliber fmj weapons are the only thing that can break through the shield - JanG<br />
<br />
:A WELL AIMED grenade from an M203 would take a guy with a shield out[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Unless the guy has a Blast Shield (explosive resistant face mask) equipped, he won't die unless it's a direct impact from a 40mm. He'll even survive sticky grenades on his shield. I've survived plenty with a Blast Shield on when I've got a Riot Shield. Half the time though, after a hit with a 40mm I'm near death anyway even with a Blast Shield on and usually the guy still has a second shot [[Draco122|Draco122]] 17:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Hitting the shield with a 40mm won't kill the guy, the trick is to hit just behind or under him, launching his ass into the air. also FMJs work well, as do Semtex grenades. I myself use Marathon, Lightweight and Commando with my Riot Shield, as well as blast shield and an AA-12 for sticky situations. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Semi Auto only FAL==<br />
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:39, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The only Thing I could think to defend it is in The Falklands War both the UK and Argentina used the FAL. Which the UK used their L1A1 in single fire only, the Argentinian Army had theirs on Automatic, which Military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun. I've never fired one, but in the game I like the controlled fire of the FAL, of it would just fire like another AK.-Km314<br />
:But it shoots way too slowly ingame to be of much use. They should have made it shoot in bursts of 2-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::From what I experienced in Multiplayer, it's powerful, it would be way to powerful if it was full auto, I think Infinity ward was going for a thing like they did in CoD4 with the G3. 1:21, 13 November 2009<br />
<br />
I think they purposely brought down single fire rate to keep people from using modded controllers too. The g3 would fire as fast as you pulled the trigger, and anyone with a modded controller had an unfair advantage. The FAL is a true single shot, mods or not. I like it.<br />
<br />
To whoever said "military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun", I believe one person on the Military Channel does not count as "military expert'''S''' <br />
Just look at this guy: he's not shooting down any planes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1q8GiSIdc<br />
<br />
If anything, the FAL with an ACOG makes a great DMR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I dunno whats with all the fuss, I love the FAL in MW2. Sure auto would have been fun, but it's hugely accurate and powerful, not to mention long ranged. A Holo sight makes it a perfect AR, and an ACOG pretty much makes it competition for the EBR. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
But I think I wish it's like in Rainbow Six where you can switch firing modes. The first 2 Call of Duty games did that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
:Yeah, and I sort of expected firing mode switches in MW2, but I guess not. But really, the FAL would be ridiculous on full-auto man. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Tacticool-ness ==<br />
Well, this game is awesome and all, but i hate the fact that they made it to be a HALO knock-off. Dual wielding? Glock 18s? God, this there ever going to be a game that gets Special Ops right? -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
:No, because the average person doesn't know dick about guns or the military-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 02:25, 18 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I really thought that it would be a badass fucking game, which it is, but they made it just too fucking...tacticool. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
Its what happens when they cater to mall ninjas, dual g18s, dual deegs, dual sawn offs.... and the plot made no sense. Price launching a nuke, sheperd going bad, i love how the start of the game has sheperd just standing there without body armor in a war zone where the loliest terrorist could pick him off.... k9870[[User:K9870|K9870]]<br />
<br />
: Wouldn't you find a guy who uses .44 magnum in a modern war to be very cocky and arrogant? -[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]]<br />
::True, but some Generals do carry Colt 1911A1s and the such. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:No, anyone who can get a M1911 Authorized carries one-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 20:35, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
But most generals of today, especially a Lieutenant General would NOT be standing out on the front lines or strongly recommended not to. What is a Lt. General doing in Afghanistan anyway? The game also took out a lot of the old guns in the previous MW game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:38, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Not to mention they chose what's essentially a wallhanger sniper rifle (WA2000) over a number of battle-proven designs (M24, M110, even the L96A1 that Counter-Strike players seem to be so in love with). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:15, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would rather use my Winchester 88, shooting Hornady Custom .308's, over any of those rifles-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree that the WA2000 was a Stupid choice. That rifles has custom wood stocks and high quality handbuilt precision, and isn't meant for combat use. The only non magnum or anti-material sniper is the M21 EBR, which has a wrongly animated 20-round mag that only holds ten rounds. They dropped the M40, R700 and Dragunov, and gave beginners the Barrett .50 cal. I'm not the best sniper, but I wouldn't have minded a nice bolt action rifle thats not chambered in a massive round. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::No, Dragunov is still in the game. As far as dropping the M40, it would seem logical to do so considering there are no US Marines in MW2. And having the R700 as a separate weapon than the M40 was just pointless, IMO. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::The Dragunov being in single player doesn't count. Why build it into the game and not add it to multiplayer? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Glock 18 with red dot ==<br />
Hey if anybody plans to use a G18 with a red dot sight without a silencer I just wanted to tell you that using a G18 in this configuration is a bad idea, the muzzle flash of the gun on full-auto is so large that it actually blocks the view of the dot so much that you can barely see the dot<br />
:Glock 18s were already a bad move. and put three ~ at the end of your text to show your name. like so: -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
::I have to agree, without the silencer used the G18s muzzle flash ruins your sight picture, not to mention it has zero range and horrid accuracy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
Ok thanks for telling me how to put my name on a page, and the G18 is an ok gun, I mean the gun tisn't that accurate when you do a full clip 33 round burst, but it is a good close quarters gun because you can hose down an enemy in about two seconds, and I sometimes use it to pin down other players because they think that I am using an MG and when the gun runs out of ammo and they jump out of cover I spray them with a real MG. [[User:Korean war marine]]<br />
<br />
I use it for close quarters only, with usually a UMP or Vector to back it up in case I need some accuracy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
Glock 18s don't use clips, they use magazines. And I agree with Winchester and M14fanboy, Glock 18 (along with Desert Eagle and Magnum revolver) was a bad choice. Heck, I'd take a Mark 23 over any of them in a combat op any day. They should put in actual ''combat pistols'', not mall ninja favorites. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:They also removed the 1911 from multiplayer. That is just bull shit. I was hoping for a P226 or something from SIG since we got so many British characters or Browning Hi-powers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:30, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I had Hi-Power hopes as well, or possible the 226. But a Colt Anaconda and Desert Eagle, I thought this was military, not ghetto. The only good handguns really are the USP and the M93R, which is like a mini-M16. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::I've said this before and I'll say it again that this is a ''war'' game, so they should have dropped the Desert Eagle, Anaconda, and Glock 18 for actual ''combat pistols'' like the aforementioned Hi-Power, 226, and 1911. Heck, I even had hopes that that new Russian service pistol (MR-446 Grach, I think it's called) would make an appearance, but my hopes were all for naught. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I know man, it's dperessing to see a WAR game with nothing but stupid magnum handguns firing ridicilously large rounds. Theres a total of two legit combat pistols, the USP and M9, and while I haven't used the USP I can say the M9 is shite. DLC pistols pl0x! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Is it just me ==<br />
<br />
or does infinity ward think all firearms in the near future will have a bunch of Picatinny rails on them?<br />
<br />
:They just watch too many movies. But then again a lot of issued guns now do have rails. That's how the Marines Corp get their M4s and M16A4s now [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::All firearms in the near future (aside from oddballs like the XM8) ''will'' have Picatinny rails. Modularity is the wave of the future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ACOG "off" after EMP among other things. ==<br />
<br />
Ok, I get the fact that all electronics that were turned on would have been knocked out after the EMP struck, but...when I picked up a rifle with an ACOG, the lights were out, leaving only a black reticule, which is bullshit because ACOGs don't work like that. They are not battery powered and as such would not be affected by the EMP. I also find it hard to believe that none of the soldiers had flashlights that were most likely turned off during EMP. Another nit-pick is that your weapon after the EMP was an M4 with an EOtech mounted on it. Why couldn't the creators have your character just flip up the iron sights? You had to pick up an entirely different M4, also coincidentally like yours with an M203, with iron sights up for that kinda of thing. <br />
<br />
This is one of the many minor lazy details they could have done. Like for the ACR. I know for a FACT that the ACR's bolt release switch is in front of the trigger. It was designed so when you insert a fresh mag, all you have to do is press forward on the release right in front of the trigger! But instead, if you are empty, you insert new mag and then with your FIRING HAND, take it off the pistol grip and pull the charging handle back! One, no soldier would is RIGHT handed would taken their trigger hand off the grip unless they need it to fix a malfunction. They would use their NON firing hand to pull the charging handle since the charging handle and in fact the entire RIFLE was built for both hands to operate. But no, IW wanted us to waste precious seconds to see the wrong hand pull the charging handle. I got shot so many times using the ACR when I am empty completely because I can't just press the bolt catch with my trigger finger as the gun was DESIGNED to! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
To add more fuel to the rant fire, the Glock 18 is an ok gun, I'll admit that in small bursts. But when you reload, you don't press the slide release, which would make getting back into action faster, but instead you're treated to your character pulling the slide back! This is only good for range shooting a Glock, since the slide release is pretty weak, factory wise, but in combat, pulling back the slide takes too much time, in fact, there's a couple seconds delay when reloading an empty Glock. That's why I try to not reload empty weapons. Always mid magazine change. It'll save fustraions for you watching your character take his damn time reloading and doing unneeded things like pulling the slide back or in the ACR's case, use right hand instead of left hand instead of pressing trigger finger forward. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
And even MORE nitpicking. Look at how they attached the M203 on a Tavor in the game! I've seen what an M203 with a Tavor looks like in real life and it works ergonomicially but the way IW did it in this game makes it look stupid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
its a game and just about every gamer you come across wont know about weapons like i have been telling people about the screw ups and they said if they did not give it a name they would have just called the m93r a machine pistol and most people i know call assault rifles machine guns. -scarecrow<br />
<br />
yeah I too noticed on the ACR how they made the unnecessary action of charging it and all that when, like they did with the SCAR and M4, they could just push bolt release, which would probably decrease reload time in the game. but hey, maybe the did it cause it would "look cool" - Whatsagun<br />
<br />
:Well at least for the M4 and SCAR, they are slapping the bolt release on the side of the gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Seriously, no one else noticed how the M4 was modeled on Semi?-protoAuthor 03:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The M203 in this game is based on an RIS-mounted airsoft replica. [http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/wp-content/uploads/2007/NewshotsofCASCARM203fromVisele_1022A/DSC021252.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:31, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Back to the mocked up Glock 18, I think all videos on youtube never show full auto Glock's reloading. Just one magazine and "The End". But there was this one video on youtube called 298 rounds in full auto and it showed this guy with a mocked up Glock 18 not using the slide release lever, just pulling back the slide. With this video close to 5,000,000 views it's quite obvious IW got there ideas from that video.<br />
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI Glock 298 rounds in full auto]<br />
<br />
:In response to that, I keep saying that most people target shooting with a lot of their guns would pull back the slide instead of pressing the slide release because every time they press down on it, it degrades it more and more. In a combat situation, you shouldn't be thinking about that if you are rushing to reload. If you are on the range, pissing bullets, then you do the pull slide back. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I wanna nitpick on the gun selection in this game. I'm sure they did this to expand the number of guns used, but some of their choices just kinda irk me. For instance, why does the Russian military use FAMAS, Tavor TAR-21, MG4, UMP, TDI Vectors, PP2000, AUG, AK's and RPD's? Seriously, TAR-21's? Israel doesn't even really like Russia right now, considering that they're selling weapons to people who want to destroy them.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well the AKs, RPD and PP2000 are obviously Russian weapons, but I hate that they didn't give them AK-74 type weapons, but all 47s instead. The Russian military doesn't use AK-47s anymore. They've switched to the smaller rounds. They also had the Russians during the Wolverine mission with FALs. IW obviously didn't know a thing about Russian military of today and didn't want to just give them all AKs, so they slapped them with a bunch of other guns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Wait a minute, aren't russians in the Wolverines mission ultranationalists? Because if they are the terrorist ones then they can have any gun they want.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:No they're the russian army. I'm guessing that you haven't played the game (spoiler) as it is the russian army paratroopers invading the east coast of the U.S. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC))<br />
<br />
I think the Ultra nationalist won the civil war in Russia. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TMP or MP9? ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Just wondering about the labeling on the MW2 page. The game calls it a "TMP", but on the MW2 page it's labeled as an MP9. Since they look the same, why bother calling it the MP9 when it is in fact the TMP? -KLR<br />
<br />
:Because the MP9 is the newer version of the TMP. I do believe Bruger and Thomet took over production from Steyr, who no longer makes it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
::Isn't the side-folding stock unique to the MP9? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:32, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Yeah, I think that was a part of the update too. Either way, unless those are old TMPs, the MP9 is the logical choice for the game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
::::Update? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::The update Bruger and Thomet made when they took over building TMPs. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Walther WA 2000 screenshot==<br />
Did someone have fun or is this an unedited screenshot from the game? If you look at the scope you can see an unhappy sick face painted on the scope cover. I have yet to use this gun, so I don't know. My money is on someone having fun. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
No, it's really like that in the game, the only people having fun there was Infinity Ward :D [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]]<br />
<br />
:Thats the emblem used for a certain class of accolades, and a comedic effect as well. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
stop lieing to the guy. yes it does have a sick face painted on the cover its more noticeable on the WA2000 theres one on the barrett M102(idk the spelling or the number) aswell but its hard to see. theres none on the intervention or the M21 EBR. - Scarecrow<br />
<br />
==L86A1 LSW drum magazine==<br />
<br />
It is impossible in real life to fire and handle an L85A1 LSW with a 100 round drum magazine? --[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 15:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Impossible? No. Incredibly uncomfortable, awkward, and impractical? Yes.--[[Special:Contributions/141.165.142.102|141.165.142.102]] 16:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Unless you're left-handed or have ''really long arms''... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Also the drum in the game model doesn't make sense. That's surely not big enough tohold 100 rounds, looks more like 50 to me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:If you shot it left handed, the charging handle would break your jaw-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I didn't know the L85/86 had a reciprocating charging handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
::: Either way you'd still get a face full of hot brass firing left handed. Which may probve to be a problem if I decide to enlist... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PC or console? ==<br />
<br />
So who has the PC and who has the Console version? Fact is that there is absolutely no difference between the two. In fact the PC is pretty much a direct port from the console version. I don't have any consoles, so I go for PC. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:48, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
this has nothing to do with the firearms of the game. please leave until you can think of something relevant.<br />
<br />
== SCAR H is really a SCAR L ==<br />
<br />
I think that the SCAR that is in the game is actually chambered in 5.56. I say this because it holds 30 rounds and after the helicopter is shot down in DC you are given a mag for an M4 from Sgt. Foley who has a SCAR. I think they had the SCAR replacing the M16 as the main battle rifle of the U.S. Military with the M16A4 being used for the reserve troops. They probably used the SCAR H model to make it look cooler. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The SCAR in the game isn't chambered in anything because it is a video game. Also if I am not mistaken IMFDB policy in regards to videogames is to identify guns purely by looks, not by any specifications. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
No its the Mk. 17 as evidenced by the larger flash suppressor. Infinity Ward probably created a 30 round mag to keep it more like an assault rifle than the battle rifle it is. Also the soldier who gives you the M4 dies and the clip could be from him. <br />
Here's a picture of the flash suppressor to show it's an Mk.17--[[User:Km314|Km314]] 06:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC) <br />
[[http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/c/c0/SCAR-H_Lv8_II.png]]<br />
:''Magazine'', not clip. And I thought there had been a 30 round magazine introduced for use with the M14 rifle a few years ago? Last I heard, the Mark 17 still used M14 mags. And, while this may not be the best of arguments here, the Mark 17 in-game has heavier recoil than either the M16 or M4 and generally seems more effective at longer ranges than the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
It only has the 30 round magazine in single player, incorrectly, but in multiplayer, it has the 20 round. A lot of the weapons in multiplayer is correct but still, IW did miss a few things, like the rear iron sight for the SCAR is supposed to fold down towards the user, not away. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Regarding the rear sight... someone on IW's forum actually pointed that out to them sometime prior to the game's release, but they didn't do anything. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Is it an M9, 92FS or 92SB? ==<br />
<br />
I'm confused. We have the title of the handgun called an SB, then a photo of a 92FS and then in the description, it's called an M9. Which one is it? Isn't the game trying to portray an M9 since it's military use? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
it should be cleened up. well im guessing a 92FS is the civil version of the M9 (what its suposed to be)<br />
but its a 92SB because of the rounded trigger guard. -scarecrow<br />
<br />
== Combat Knife ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone identify the combat knife used in the final level? I know I've seen it before, I just don't know where. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:05, 11 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
-If it's the same one that shows up in the sneak type missions I believe its a Blackhawk Tatang or SZABO FELONY STOP. --Pawnstar<br />
<br />
:Looks like it's the Tatang. It is DEFINITELY NOT the Szabo Felony Stop. Thanks for the help, chief. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_2&diff=213632Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 22009-12-11T20:05:12Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>Note: This talk page is for discussion related to the '''article'''. Do not use it to argue about how H&K pwnz Colt, it is safe to say nobody cares.<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
==Suggestions==<br />
I think the page needs the F2000 and TAR-21 with their special sights. Also, if anyone is looking for a screen of the M14 EBR with nothing attached, there's one in the spec ops mission where you breach the gulag wall. Oh, and we need the GP-25 included. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 19:40, 28 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The TAR-21 on the page ''already'' has a MARS sight on it. And the F2000 on the page is the same version used in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:11, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::There are no in-game screens of the MARS sight and the F2000's standard scope is in the game as the RDS in multiplayer, or "scoped" in singleplayer.<br />
<br />
==winchester 1887 loading animation==<br />
<br />
Is it supposed to load through reciever like that?<br />
\<br />
:Yes -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
::Sort of. The animation shows the rounds being placed in the upper tube (the barrel) rather than the lower tube (the magazine). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
It is wierd, but 1887's do load that way.<br />
When you pull the cocking lever down the top of the breech kind of rolls back and opens. <br />
The shells slip into the breech, past the chamber and down into the tube magazine below the barrel. <br />
They're slow and a little clumsy to reload IRL. You have to push the shell down into the magazine tube past the stop with your thumb.<br />
You can get a close look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE9WD9Fihks<br />
<br />
== Price's 1911 ==<br />
Actually its in the game it can be picked up and used in the museum, don't know about MP though.<br />
<br />
*It's not featured in MP, it's exclusive to the single player level Museum, though I have heard you can find it during an early mission, much in the same way as to how the desert eagle in MW was found on Crew Expendable (the only one in the entire SP campaign btw). Apparently on one of the loading screens, it details the weapon as a GI 1911 (unsure of the manufactuer) compared to what it was in Modern Warfare, a Springfield Armoury 1911 Professional model. [[Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
On one of the loading scenes I think it said it was a colt.<br />
<br />
The one used by price is a springer pro, colt's just a more recognizable name to put in loading screens.<br />
<br />
Yeah, most definitely NOT a Colt. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M93R ==<br />
There is a confirmation of the M93R machine pistol to be unlocked in MW2 online as confirmed in this video at the bottom of this page<br />
<br />
http://modernwarfare247.com/news/multiplayer-unlocks - Madax XX<br />
<br />
CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO ADD PICTURES ONTO A PAGE ?????????????<br />
<br />
== Who saw this video, 92, FS or SB? ==<br />
The video with the Beretta M9, Ive not seen, Is it a 92 FS or SB?, i mean this isn't my site but still putting M9 just make's it as noobs are running the place, lol sorry, so who has the link to the video?<br />
*It is impossible to understand it from video. The only place this pistol appears is shown on the screenshot, the trigger guard is not seen, so i decided to discribe it as military modification, M9. I don't think, that it is a big problem for you to write what is this pistol realy is, whan we will have a better view.<br />
<br />
Didn't mean to offended you, it's just most people come to this site to get correct info on weapons, but i suppose putting M9 isn't that bad considering that its the correct name, i just feel its lack of info.<br />
<br />
Its the 92SB again, you can tell on its Create-A-Class picture<br />
<br />
== Airsoft ==<br />
I like airsoft as much as the next guy, but we already have pictures of ''real'' M4A1s and MP5Ks on the site, so no need to replace them with pics of airsoft replicas. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, but the "real" M4A1s and MP5Ks in the game don't look like those pictures; for the sake of identification, wouldn't it just be simpler to use images that at least look like the weapons from the game, whether they're real or not? Besides, there are plenty of other pages that use airsoft images, so why should this one be an exception?<br />
:Biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of. As you can see on the [[M16 rifle series|M16]] and [[Heckler & Koch MP5|MP5]] pages, we have plenty of pictures of the real things, so no need to add airsoft replicas to the page instead. Whether or not they're equipped with a specific rail system or not is moot, since the rail systems in question are pictured beneath the weapons and the addition of them ''on'' the weapons doesn't change anything. An M4 is still an M4 and an MP5K is still an MP5K. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There has always been guns we see in movies that have been customized and don't look like the stock photos of the gun unmodded. It's best to have a picture of the real thing than a fake that LOOKS like the one used in the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Then shouldn't all the other airsoft pictures (such as the Custom 1911 seen on the MGS4 page and the Cutlass on the Black Lagoon page, and even the Springfield Armory M1911 on CoD4's and MW2's page) be replaced with stock pictures? If you're gonna insist on this, you might as well go all the way.<br />
::As I've already pointed out, '''biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of'''. So those images are there '''because we don't have pics of the real things'''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
For the record, I'm in favor of pictures of the weapons modded or detailed as they are seen in the movie or game. Chances are the link takes you to the base page for them anyway, so you can see a picture of the real deal. Someone might be looking for a picture of the gun that is identical to how it is in the film or game. Whether it's airsoft or not to me seems moot as long as it is the weapon in question. Of course, no orange tips, please. -- ZG<br />
:The problem I have with all Airsoft guns is that they all scream "FAKE!" to those of us who spend alot of time around the real thing. Now as placeholders until we get a real weapon image I don't mind as it's a placeholder. Useing an airsoft gun insted of a real firearm that we have an image of that I just don't like. We do get the occational screem used weapon here and even when those have been beat to hell they are much better than the most realistic airsoft gun.--[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:48, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Replaced the airsoft M4A1 with the pic of a real one yet again. It doesn't matter whether it looks exactly like it does in-game or not. An M4A1 is an M4A1, regardless of what it looks like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
But if you could find a picture of what it looks like exactly in the game, wouldn't you use it? -- ZG<br />
<br />
:The inclusion of a few tacticool accessories is not enough of a reason to waste server space on even more photos of a weapon we already have a number of photos of. For the third time, an M4A1 is an M4A1 regardless of what kind of rail system and whatnot is on it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I (not that it matters) am perfectly fine with pictures of the real deal and I love the effort that's gone into posting such great screenshots. I just hope the trend keeps with noting what particular accessories are present. I'm one of those douchebags that sees guns in the movies and thinks "Golly! I want mine to look just like that!" In any case, I love the site and it hasn't let me down yet. -- ZG<br />
<br />
:Nothing at all wrong with noting what kind of accessories are used and by no means does it make you (or anyone else) a douchebag. I mean, flashlights, IR and visible lasers, optics... all that stuff is awesome. I just think it's unnecessary (as well as a waste of server space) to have multiple pics of one weapon customized in multiple different ways each for a few specific pages when one pic of the weapon in its standard configuration can be used on all pages, with minor differences noted in the descriptory paragraph. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I agree. I'm all for the efficient use of resources and I come here for info and screenshots anyway. I wasn't necessarily against airsoft pictures but I do see it a different way now. In the spirit of full disclosure, however, I really am quite a douchebag. -- ZG<br />
<br />
:Lol XD Well, they ''do'' say honesty is golden... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Planned Weapons==<br />
Where did the informatio for most of these planned weapons come from??<br />
:No idea, and no one has posted any sources, and there's no way to edit it now. Maybe if another multiplayer video shows up, someone with some authority will notice them and can remove them. I mean, really, the XM8? COD4 never had it and that came out when it was still showing up in every "realistic" FPS.--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::IMHO, the XM8 is way overused in video games today. I'm glad IW shied away from it in favor of weapons like the ACR/Masada, that actually got beyond ''prototype'' stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
the acr isnt past prototype stage<br />
:::No, it just isn't widely available yet, but it ''is'' beyond prototype stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:53, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The ACR is actually being produced by both Bushmaster and Remington. It's already being marketed and available to purchase [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1887==<br />
Is the Winchester 1887 actually confirmed for the game? If it is, you can pretty much create a T2 class with that shotgun, the thumper, juggernaut, stopping power and something else that suits Arnie:P - Madax XXI 12:28<br />
<br />
:Yup, it's in there. I'm totally gonna have a Terminator 2 online kit. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It's definetely confirmed now, and with the big cocking loop and sawnoff stock and barrel too, only a hint of Terminator 2 fanboyism from IW there.... Can't wait to try it though. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I found it in campaign a minute ago and it really sucks-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:41, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
^^^I think it's pretty good, I'm stoked to get it online.<br />
<br />
::Same here, I heard it has fairly good range and damaged when stacked up to the other shotguns, it just has a slower ROF, due to the lever action. you can dual wield them though, which says something. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:It's one of the only shotguns with the furthest range out of the lot in MP, this and steady aim and it's a monster in it's own. Like you said M14, it has a low ROF and the second smallest capacity next to the ranger [[Draco122|Draco122]] 21:06, 26 November 2009<br />
<br />
::Actually it doesn't. I picked an 1887 up off a dead guy today, and was amazed. first thing is, that it has stunning range. Easily the best, can hit damn close to 50 feet. It holds 7 shots in MP as well, and you can dual wield them, cocking them T2 style. It's a beast of a shotgun, and I can't wait to unlock it for myself. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::Isn't this weapon the Winchester 1897 shotgun, originally designed for trench warfare and used by the US military thru Vietnam (and plenty are still in use by civilians in the US). In playing COD 5: World at War, I haven't found the shotguns to be particularly effective. The Japanese NPCs are often so quick (esp in the higher difficulty level) that they are on you before you can chamber another round (esp in the section of the game where you have to destroy a howitzer with a 3 barreled 25mm AA gun and quickly take up a covered position to eliminate the Japanese counter-attack using a scoped Springfield). Two Japanese soldiers immediately attack you. I was killed more often using the shotgun than using the Type 100 or the .30 belt-fed machine gun--whose name just eluded me.<br />
<br />
:::As for COD6:MW2, I have yet to run into the 1897. With so many high tech weapons (and the bewildering array of Russian weapons in the Sgt Roach and Pvt Ramirez sections), why bother with such an obsolete weapon given the effectiveness of the ASC45 (?) that's standard issue for Rangers & Special Forces, esp when there are smg/shotgun combos available. Or the incredible arsenal in Makarov's safe house?<br />
<br />
:::[[User:Newsjunkie356|Newsjunkie356]] 23:58, 9 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: It's not an 1897, it's an 1887, being lever-action not pump-action. That and it's styled after the Terminator 2 shotgun anyway.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:03, 10 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M1014 Removal?==<br />
Should we remove the section on the M1014 in this game? There hasnt been any confirmation of it appearing in game, aside from the misplaced icon.<br />
<br />
No, it has been confirmed now<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKwaOg7RYPo<br />
<br />
== Any Ideas On The .44 Magnum == <br />
I think its either a Raging bull or a colt anaconda. both look quite simmlar but im thinkin it more a colt anaconda than a raging bull reason being that the the magnum in game look as if it has smaller vents were as the raging bull as quite thick vents. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
On the Call of Duty wikipedia website it said it was a colt anaconda<br />
<br />
Link plz? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Found a video on youtube where they switch classes revealing a .44 magnum on 0:16 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk]<br />
<br />
==Clean Up Page==<br />
I cleaned up the main page, but i can change it back if any one want's. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I noticed that FourZeroTwo has a gun on his back before getting knifed, that you missed. It appears to be a PP-2000, please correct me if I'm wrong<br />
<br />
http://www.modernwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pp-2000<br />
<br />
You could be right, but Ive got a hunch it could be a MP7, which seems more likely. But from what we can see its hard to tell. (thx also :)<br />
<br />
No problem, I just love MW and MW2 and had to point that out, but I didnt know who to talk to about it. Great site, too:) I learned loads about guns, like the difference between a Beretta and a Taurus:) - Terry 00:06<br />
<br />
I was right about the PP-2000!:) - Terry 23:30<br />
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I was like "Sure" when i saw your above post, then i look at the pic of the PP-2000 akimbo, and was like "FUCK" cool any way m8 :)<br />
<br />
== Bullet Types ==<br />
What is this about the Tavor being loaded with FMJ's? Is this supposed to mean that along with choosing weapon attachments, we also get to choose bullet types? - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
<br />
A bit too confusing now lol, I'm thinking it will just be a perk, because if im right fmj's give higher velocities, but i couldn't see how this would affect the game, in cod 4 all bullets moved at the same speeds?<br />
<br />
Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?<br />
<br />
What i understand is that FMJ are solid bullets and the only bullets "allowed" in warfare from the Hague Conventions.<br />
<br />
True, but but a "Black" operation such as this would hardly be concerned with the rules of "conventional warfare." =P<br />
<br />
The Theory behind JHP (Jacketed Hollow Points) is that upon impact of the target the nose of the bullet mushrooms to a much larger size the then original diameter(caliber) of the bullet causing a larger wound channel and more "stopping power"<br />
<br />
The downside to this is that since JHP expand during impact the force of the bullet is dispersed over a larger area on the target making these bullets less likely to pierce body armor, also some HP bullets give certain firearms trouble when cycling this ammo. my 1911 for instance... =)<br />
<br />
Your 1911's feeding of hollow point has to do with the type of 1911 usually. Different kinds of feeding ramps I'm told. My series 70 Gold cup has the same problem but my Springfield TRP feeds just fine.<br />
FMJ's moving at Higher velocities has to do with air drag, hollow points would create more of it. As others have said hope this helps, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong.<br />
<br />
But basically all bullets work well for their intended applications. its just that in this day and age there are so many options for a person to use its just matching the bullet to the task. Hunting, Target, Match, Self-defense, Low recoil or "Cowboy" Loads, Plinking. Its endless. -Furious Oyster (feel free to expand or remove if incorrect or unnecessary, just trying to help)<br />
<br />
well... I didn't exactly want a bullet discussion, i was just wondering how this would affect the game, like if infinity ward would make it horrible and make stuff like hollow points do something like 4 times damage but only go as far as a "Call of Duty Shotgun". - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
<br />
"Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?"- I just read alot on firearms :P but i remember coming across it?<br />
<br />
As far as i know there is an international convention that bans the use of hollow point bullets and other expanding bullets for millitary purposes.<br />
<br />
:That would be the Hague Convention. But from what I understand, it bans their use against ''state-employed combatants'' only, leaving them fair game for counter-terrorism ops and the like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
FMJs could be like the perk "Deep Impact"?<br />
<br />
They are an attachment for the guns that gives them a little extra damage and better penetration through walls too.<br />
<br />
== Extended Magazines Attachments ==<br />
Thought it was pretty cool, but will it be like a drum mag or something like bandolier, what ever it is i hope it applies to assault rifles.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Ump45em.jpg|400px]]<br />
<br />
:Could be a dual mag clip, so you can reload faster. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 00:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: Magazine dammit!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:11, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
He said a clip that holds two magazines together for a speedier reload - Mythekal<br />
:::Huh. i never heard of that before. Good point, Mythekal.<br />
<br />
Lol its still a mag Mythekal!<br />
<br />
its usually just a metal or plastic part that latches to both mags allowing you to just pull out the used one move it to the left and reinsert the fresh mag... Some times its just a piece of tape. Google AR-15 mag couplers or something. -Furious Oyster (Sorry miss read it)<br />
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I knew what a dual mag clip is, i was merely trying to explain it to who ever thought that M14Fan said "Clip" instead of Magazine. And here is a picture to avoid further confusion. -[[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
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[[Image:Dual_Mag_clamp.jpg|200px]]<br />
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There better be an attachment like this for the AA-12, cause its gonna get really annoying reloading that lousy 8-shot magazine every five seconds after unloading on someone lol-ArmoredMason619<br />
<br />
Apparently the extended mags are exactly what you think. They take the standard magazines of any gun and just add like 10 more rounds to it. I don't know about the reload animation, but most likely it's the same. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Barret .50== <br />
<br />
At the end of the Flag Runner video FourZeroTwo has a Barret M82. May not be, but it looks like one and sounds like one, it's a little blurry so i wasn't sure? -Final Tsurugi<br />
<br />
It looks like a Barrett XM500 - Mythekal<br />
<br />
How did i not notice that, actually might be a Barrett M99? - Final Tsurugi<br />
<br />
:Or it could be the M107, the updated M82. ][[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy] 01:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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It wasnt the M99 because it was firing semi-automatically, and from the angle, the magazine was not visible, so i assume it was a bullpup - Mythekal<br />
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It is a Barret M82/M107, if you pause the video at the right moment you can see the magazine in front of the grip, i actually got excited to think we might have a bull-pup sniper in Modern Warfare 2 :P -Final Tsurugi<br />
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Nope. Youre all wrong, I mean you got the .50BMG part right, but its actually an Accuracy International AS50. Come on guys I cant be the only one who noticed that-Kellers357<br />
I'm almost positive that it is not an AI. It is just a M107 [[User:mythekal|mythekal]]<br />
<br />
Most definitely a Barret 82/M107. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Brazillian Militia? ==<br />
<br />
They better make the main character waste the militia alongside the Brazilian Army or the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOPE/ BOPE] or i am not buying it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I actually like that causal outfit the militia wear :)<br />
::Me too. I never seen a brazilian wear a 1980s Miami Vice style flower shirt, but i do like how they have militia wearing Brazilian football team shirts. Makes it more realistic. I like the flower shirts though. They are cheesy as hell. It fits the game. Also, Please sign your posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah Miami vice ftw :) --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Guns from the new teaser==<br />
This SMG looks like a [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]].<br />
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|300px|[[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]]]]<br />
[[Image:MW2teastrail1.png|thumb|none|400px|I thought it was a MP5K but if we look closer, it doesn't seem to be one.]]<br />
:It could be a K with the forward grip removed? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
no, its an MP5K equipped with some sort of an RIS handguard to me-Kellers357<br />
<br />
looks like an MP5 with a tactical end-cap, kinda like the end cap on the MP5K. no idea why there's a 15 round magazine though<br />
[[Image:MW2teastrail2.png|thumb|none|400px|And this one looks like a UMP but the the silhouette isn't exactly the same (maybe the model of the game was not loaded enough).]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It definitely resembles a UMP, it probably has rails on the handguard, as well as the front sight removed, as they did in the last game ~[[user:Revolver|Revolver]]<br />
its a UMP with the foresight removed for the red dot-Kellers357<br />
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The one in the first picture is I think a Special Weapons MP-10. Check it out at the bottom of the mp5 page.<br />
::The forearm doesn't look as large as the MP-10 though... everything else looks like a MP-10 indeed.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
The two guns look similar minus the stock and clip. I could be wrong but I'm sure that if it isn't a special weapons mp-10 then it is an UMP.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
:Magazine goddamit![[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
What's wrong with saying clip? It means the same thing.<br />
:.. Uh, no. It's not. A 'clip' is the device that loads a magazine. You either use it to load your detachable magazines, or you carry the clips to load the fixed magazine in your rifle (on old rifles). You don't carry 'clips' around any more. They're two different things. It's like saying rim and tyre mean the same thing. --[[User:Joffeloff|Joffeloff]] 12:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
I've never heard that before. I can see where clip comes from stripper clip that they used in rifles. Everyone around me says clip and mag is interchangeable but people use mag more often. If it really bothers you that much then I'll just say mag then.<br />
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Special Weapons MP-10 9x19mm]]<br />
The second one looks like an UMP. I'm pretty sure we're dealing with two guns here.<br />
::Yeah but there is no rear sight on the one in the screenshot, and it's disturbing me... maybe they took it away because of the Red Dot on it.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
Actually if you look closely that kinda square shape towards the back of the gun is the iron sight so it's pretty much an UMP with what looks like an ACOG. If you're talking about the front sight for the UMP which does appear to be missing, remember that they removed the front sights from the M4/M16 when you attach a sight even though that's not standard.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
[[Image:UMP 45.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch UMP .45 ACP]]<br />
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
I've got a clearer shot of the weapon thanks to a friend :)<br />
[[Image:MW2MP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok I guess it's not an MP-10 but a dressed up MP-5. They did it to the AK I suppose they are going to do it to the MP-5?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Guys on CoD Wikia found an interesting thing about this gun and I pretty agree: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Modern_Warfare_2#Sub_Machine_Guns <br/>They say it's a MP5K with a R.I.S system. Since they've put one for the M4, I guess that's possible.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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It has to be a MP5k with a rail. The short magazine,no stock, and small flashider make it the only possible variant.<br />
<br />
==what AK is this?==<br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=2&newsid=20387 <br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=4&newsid=20387<br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=5&newsid=20387<br />
<br />
In the first image I can see that it has a waffle magazine. In the second image I can see that a muzzle brake is present, and in the last image I can see what appears to be a Tapco Intrafuse AK-47 Handguard. So what is it? Oh and it appears to have a synthetic stock. [[Special:Contributions/72.133.253.21|72.133.253.21]] 21:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guns from the trailer ==<br />
[[Image:MW2brazil.png|thumb|none|400px|FN FAL or Imbel MD-3 (brazilian variant of the FAL)?]]<br />
I hope it's an FAL. You barely ever see them in video games-S&Wshooter<br />
:Could be a variant of the KTR-03S - an AK custom build [http://www.krebscustom.com/RawPhotos/6-28-04/KTR-03SFinal.jpg]. - MCain (UTC)<br />
:Me too. I love fals. And the gun above looks like a IMBEL MD2. Heres the wikipedia article: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMBEL_MD2]. Note how it has a STANAG Magazine like the MD2.I also love how ridiculous looking the Brazilian gang members are.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::rather MD-3 isn't it? Since it hasn't a foldable stock.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah without the folding stock it is a MD3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::However, the gun's long barrel looks more like a FAL... ahh sh*t! This fuc*ing game is driving me mad, every guns don't look exactly the same as their originals^^--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I think there are Imbel MD2s or MD3s with the regular barrel.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Ok, there are no Imbel MD3s with regular barrels. It's most likely a design error by the developters.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
(comment: It better be a FAL. I'm getting tired of M4's, M16's, AK's and G36's. I want to be able to use a gun ingame that in't too small for me in real life.-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]])<br />
:I agree. the game better have G3s and IMI galils. I also love the fact that is a Brazilian made Fal. You don't see those in movies.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I also want a MG3 or some kind of big, dumb machine gun chambered to 7.62x51mm NATO. Machine guns chambered to 7.62 tear shit up.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Hell yeah man! Thats exactly what I'm saying. I would also like to see some more bolt action jobs that aren't crappy( DSR-1, Enfield Enforcer, Steyr SSG) in video games- [[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::''This would probably be the IMBEL MD-2 (folding stock) or MD-3 (fixed stock) which is manufactured locally in Brazil. The weapons are based, pretty much, on the FAL with the exception that they fire a 5.56 round'' [[User:Charon68|Charon68]]<br />
:::And are fed from STANAG Magazines and have different handguards.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I'm tired of .223 guns. I would like to see a FAL, M14 or G3 that isn't emasculated (made innacurate, weak or make ammo for it scarce)-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]]<br />
::I want a M14 that is not tricked out with rails like the one in Call of Duty 4. I want a M14 like the one below:<br />
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A real M14.]]<br />
I do like the Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR rifle though. I also want A M16A4 that doesn't fire on Full Auto and a AK-74. AK-74s don't get enough love.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::CoD 7 will be about Vietnam War according to rumours, maybe they'll put in one.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 19:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And smaller conflicts in africa. I hope they also put atleast one level that takes place in the portuguese colonial war.<br />
[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:29, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Now i think the FAL above may be a FN FAL with rails on the handguards and a 30 round magazine but i think it's too curved and big to be 7.62x51mm NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
im taking a guess that the FAL looking rifle is a DSA SA58 OSW. im probably wrong, but thats my two cents<br />
:Way too big to be an SA58. The SA58 is a Carbine. The one in the upper picture is an Assault Rifle. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:02, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
[[Image:MW2smg.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*A Kriss Super V?<br />
Does anyone know who the guy with the KRISS is? Im calling him Brazilian Secret Service but I'm sure Im wrong. Help?-Kellers357<br />
Cool. The pistol is a Desert Eagle, by the way.-protoAuthor<br />
:I think the pistol is a Jericho 941 since it's too small to be a desert eagle.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::No, it's an Eagle. Check out the ejection port.<br />
:::''I concur. It's not terribly visible, but there's that familiar slide mounted safety in both shots. It appears to be a totally game-created custom finish though - the barrel and the underlying section of the frame (where the gas pistons are housed) look to be blued and the grips and the rest of the frame looks silver. On a couple of related notes, wow at the graphics - I took these for pictures of the developers testing out their guns at first - and wow at the handling of the Desert Eagle by this guy. Usually in these games, you see handguns being handled only somewhat compentently at best. This guy looks like he sleeps with the damn thing.'' ---[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 02:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Also, take note of the sound it makes when it fires. Exact same sound as the Desert Eagle in CoD4.<br />
:::::Besides, the game is still going through production and the weapon models will be touched up. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The machine gun ==<br />
I think the machine gun that the russian terrorists are using is a M240.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think it's a M249 SAW, the M240 (GP Machine gun) is bigger.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Could it possibly be a Mk. 46?<br />
:Makes sense since most of the guns are special forces guns.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well the M240B has been added just look at the new multiplayer trailer. IGN rewind theater confirms it too. could someone add it on the main article? -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
==New AK==<br />
[[Image:AKMW2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
I think its just an amped up AK-47. It has an AR-15 stock, waffle magazine, and has a synthetic handguard.<br />
Found a similar image:<br />
[[Image:Ak-47-weapon-accessories-desert-colourb.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 22:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Good god, look what they did to that AK! That's just horrible. I hope the AK in the game isn't like that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:37, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I watched the trailer again. I am sure that i saw a AK with a AK-74 style flash hider.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe a AK-101 since NATO forces use 5.56mm.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think it could be a AK-74M or just a AK-74 since the russian army might make a apparence and they need to arm the russian soldiers.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I said "NATO forces"--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC) because the one having it in the screenshot is Soap... well, maybe or surely, he captured because he had a M14 at the beginning.<br />
::Well...the game's plot is a about a Uber badass special forces unit that works alone and is headed by our buddy Soap up there. So, i guess the badass special forces unit is not part of NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:35, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Neither AK-101 or AK-74, the magazine in the image holds 7.62x39mm. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 00:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Maybe theres the tricked out AK up there and the AK-74 style AK.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well, seems like we won't know until we'll have a level walkthrough with the name of the weapon in it...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I saw the Gameplay videos and i saw two different AKs. One with a AKM style muzzle brake and another one with a AK-74 style flash hider. Maybe we can build guns from the ground up? like, you can have a AK-47 with a kobra sight, snow camo, fires 7.62x39mm and has a AK-74 flash hider?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
*It's gotta be an AKM.<br />
::Why the it would be an AKM? It looks like an AK-74M or one of the AK-100 series.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Well it has ribbing on the top of the reciever, like the AKM, but the indentation I cannot clearly see. It could be like in Farcry 2, where it has the Ak-47 receiver with some AKM parts, and I used AKM because the 100 series are developments on the AKM, understand? So AK-47 is incorrect.<br />
::::But the AK-10X series were developments on the AK-74M. Also, sign you posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well technically the modernizations start with the AKM, I see it as the break off point of the AK series. Ak-74 was designed from the AKM, and so on and so on, but that doesn't matter, yeah it could be the 100 series, but my point is its not an AK-47. Also lacks the flash hiders of the 74 and 100s. But I think it's a frankenAK-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]<br />
::I think the AK-74 flashider can be seen when in first person. Like how in the first Modern Warfare, The first person model of the M4 had an grip on the handguard but the world model didn't have a grip. I also think it's an frankengun or it may be an AK that the player can build. Like in hitman: Blood Money.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I don't think so on the 74, but I think we can agree in the meantime it is not an AK-47 so we should change the heading accordingly, evidence shows it is a modernized variant so we could say a Kalashnikov in the heading and have notations that it is a modernized variant.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]<br />
<br />
It looks like it has the AK-47 variant front sight on it.<br />
<br />
Guys, I guess it's new railed AK-103 from Izhmash with M4ish buttstock and waffled mags. Check the link below for pics, note the same muzzle brake etc as in the game.<br />
[http://depositfiles.com/files/xgycdj189 new AK-103]<br />
<br />
:That link goes to a pay-to-download site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Unrealeted ==<br />
Ok, i know this has nothing to do with the game or releted to guns but, i was reading the Modern Warfare 2 thread on the Something Awful forums and they were calling the Brazilian gangters africans. What the ? and they seen to think the scenes in Rio De Janeiro are set in Africa. What the mother ? it offends me that people are dumb enough to ignore the line "he's got a contact in rio" and Christ the Redeemer and the huge mountains with favelas full of illiterate drug dealers and the Brazilian made Imbel MD-3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What do you expect? It's Something Awful!<br />
<br />
To be fair all the favela gangsters that are seen so far are Afro-Brazilians, even if there are plenty of gang members of all races in real life. With so many games having levels in destroyed urban areas in Africa it's not surprising that some people would get a Black Hawk Down style vibe from the pictures.<br />
<br />
Personally I hate something Awful as they break their own rules on posting. One member has a post on there with my first and last names and it's a bloody poison pen hitpeice. I asked the frigging syop to remove the shit and he laughed at me. Personally I find the site the home of a bunch of elitist idiots who have at least one member dumb enough to set the fuel line for a weilding torch on fire.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 19:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, i like something awful but you have to be really dumb not to see the Christ the redeemer.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Hopes For New Game==<br />
<br />
Want a little realism and some weapons like standard battle rifles not all trick out with rails. Hoping russians have ak-74s and makarovs or that new 9x19 pistol they developed, not ak47s. Militias and gangs should have a mix of guns, not all berettas and 1911s. A makarov, cz-75, hk or two, glock, model 19 smiths.....just variety.<br />
<br />
What the fick is an "akarov"? Lol-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Makarov, a 9x18mm pistol that has been issued in several variants to the russian military. Come on, seriously, sticky keys some things are mspelled.<br />
<br />
I knew that. I was just kidding-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think the brazilians should use taurus and stoeger guns too, that would be realistic. And the militia should have some sxs coach guns and taurus revolvers, you know, the non tatcticla stuff. And psitols should be portrayed as hard to shoot, not coming back exactly on target after each round and it should wobble a bit while aiming.<br />
:The Brazilian gangsters are using tricked out guns with rails. At least the IMBEL MD-3 up there has a Eotech reflex sight and what looks like rails on the handguards but they could be the regular MD-3 hand guard. We know the AKs are going to be tricked out as like the image above but i think i saw a AK-74 that was not tricked out. I hope they have a AK-74.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
My major hope for the game is a surpressed sniper rifle available on multiplayer not single. The first Modern Warfare was a great stealth game with all the "Surpressors", and "Ghillie Suits" but really was a "Greek Tragedy" on multiplayer. I could understand that your average military trained sniper has a spotter and a shooter and are trained to be the world's top 10 patient people in the world but can't put the patience into a live game with real people in a seven minute match. Aside from history why couldn't the writers just put a M21 with a surpressor on in multiplayer like in the missions "Blackout" and "All Ghillied Up"? For the new guys to COD4 on the M21 attachments there are only two attachments "No Attachment" has a standard scope, the ACOG attachment has a ACOG scope and is missing a surpressor as a third attachment. If you understand how to customize your attachments you wouldn't be so confused but since the "No Attachment" feature has a standard scope why not have the surpressor and scope. It just doesn't make sense why you would have the same setup in the campaign but not in multiplayer. We can all understand why you can't have more than one attachment on any other weapons but why not add a surpressor on a sniper that has "No Attachment" for it's standard scope? I am probably to late to send this message to Infinity Awards but I spent 20 minutes on it so I might get lucky if they read it and a miracle if they change it. I'm just sharing my hopes so try not to delete it.<br />
<br />
I hope they get more shotguns in and make them a tiny bit better.m3,870,m1300,m950,etc. Two shotguns that go 5 feet suck, especially when pistols can go as far as sniper rifles.<br />
<br />
* If they added compensators to the attachments for handguns would be cool. It sucks that there's only one attachment for pistols in MW1, and the D-Eagle hasnt got anything that can be put on it, and that sucks even more. Maybe different calibers for the D-Eagles could be used too, but that might be going too far. And I hope theres an SG552 in there aswell, I love that gun so much. And if they added firing selection to the game, you could switch the SPAS from pump to semi auto, which would also be cool, and a touch more realistic.<br />
<br />
:More Desert Eagle is the ''last'' thing this game needs. Seriously, why not a SIG 226 or HK45 instead (i.e., an actual ''combat pistol'')? One thing I want for sure is a freaking fire selector for assault rifles and carbines. Like has been said on the CoD4 page, full auto or bust sucks. I prefer quick double tapping on semi-auto. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
My hopes for this game? An automatic FAMAS; leave the 3-round burst to the M16. Also, a true M14. As for everything else, well, the only thing I was worried about from the onset was the RPD, but since it's been confirmed, I'm ecstatic. And I like how they're doing the secondary weapon thing. Having a shotgun as your primary could be pretty useless sometimes...[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
-you no what, they need to make a real "modern warfare" game, like with acts going from Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, and hell Somalia, who wouldnt want to play a blackhawk down game with kick ass graphics AND guns, that is what cod7 should be and obviously with the real weaponry they had, ex- no Magpul Masada in vietnam, Sad but true, any agree with this?- Griz<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1200==<br />
<br />
We all know the 1200 is old and not used since vietnam. The 1300 is used. Would it be safe to say these are mis-named winchester 1300s? Or is it more video game nonsense?<br />
:The 1200 in this game is the same 1200 from Modern Warfare 1 so it's safe to say that the Winchester is a 1200 even though is pretty retarded to militarys still be using the 1200 today.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:52, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I seriously doubt the 1200 was ever made in this configuration.<br />
:Me too but it is a video game and video game developters are pretty retarded when it comes to guns. Still, this and COD4 have the best Gun in video game history atleast by now.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Watching over the video again on youtube and moderwarfare2.com, the weapon does look like a Winchester 1200 at first glance, yet I'm also convinced it may be a Remington 870 MCS, either in the Entry configuration or the Patrol Configuration due to the length of the barrel or it maybe the combination of the two, due to the length of the barrel with an added entry front sight. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 22:15, 11 August 2009<br />
<br />
[[Image:Rem870mcs_14.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
== Alright ==<br />
Alright you son-of-a-bitches there's a gameplay video in gametrailers. It's pretty low quality but some new guns were seen, including the gun with the heartbeat sensor and some others. Now, i don't know how to screencap trailers so someone else will have to do it.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Here they come:<br />
[[Image:MW2AR1.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2AR2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
YOU FOOL! It's "sons-of-bitches". That's a pretty awesome-looking cap, though.-protoAuthor<br />
:Thanks for the correction. I am sure Soap and Roach we using AKs with AK-74 flash hiders. Anyone have any idea what kind of AKs were those?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:20, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Oliveira, do you think you could post a link of the trailer for me, please? Thanks so much. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Which trailer?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== gameplay demo ==<br />
<br />
did anyone see the new gameplay demo for Modern Warfare 2<br />
it showed "Roach"(main protagonist) with a IMBEL MD-3 with a dot sight and a...radar<br />
im not good with gun attachments but is there really a radar attatchment?<br />
:It's a heartbeat sensor and the gun wasn't a MD-3. it looked like a fictional gun of some sort.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::some says it's a SCAR--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Makes sense since the charging handle is on the right side. But i think the SCAR charging handle is on the left side.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
-It looks like a Sig 556 variant to me - Mythekal<br />
<br />
Yeah looks like the sig556 itself thogh, not the military versions? Also, would it be safe to say the glock is a glock 18, no idea how anyone would mistake a full auto as a g22/.<br />
<br />
It could just be a fully automatic Glock 22. Gun rules dont necessarily matter to video games - Mythekal<br />
:Mythekal is right. Hell, Modern Warfare 1 had a M16A4 that fired on full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All that matters is the real weapon that the in-game version is modeled from. Call of Duty 4 had an Aks-74u modeled from an Airsoft gun - Mythekal<br />
<br />
I'm starting to think that this rifle could be a Bushmaster ACR, as it shares similar traits, except for the placement of the charging handle - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:My thoughts too. The charging handle is consistent to the ACR, but the SCAR has the same kind of charging handle. We can't see the stock and both could accept a thermold mag. So it could be either. I really doubt they make up an entire fiction rifle for the sake of it. Modern Warfare was always all about guns that are real. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Though the weird part is, the ACR has a slide release right next to the trigger, similiar to the XM8. You reload and just press forward with your trigger finger, no need to slap or pull the charging handle. The SCAR has the slide release like the AR-15 rifles, you can just slap it to release, but yet in the gameplay, you don't slap a slide release or push a slide release, you pull the charging handle back. Strange [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It could be a Magpul Masada. It is very similar to the weapon in the videos, and has a charging handle on the right side of the receiver. In the video, the stock has a hinge, indicating a folding stock, which looks almost identical to the Masada. - Mythekal<br />
<br />
The rifle also has ambidexterous charging handles - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:That sumbitch is most certainly a Masada.<br />
<br />
new gameplay vid says it's a silenced ACR with heartbeat sensor.<br />
<br />
I think it is a Magpul Masada [[User:Choi117|Choi117]]<br />
:I watched the Gameplay and i'm sure that the gun is a ACR.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
ACR is the masada. Same gun, switched manufacturer.<br />
:Sorry, i didn't know that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
But the stock is that of the Masada - Mythekal<br />
<br />
::ACR man, I know the Masada sounds cooler, but it isn't call that anymore. It's like people still calling the REC 7 a Barret M468 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:42, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or any of the M16 series of weapons a AR-15.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well if it's called AR15, you would be referring to the civilian M16 rifles. M16 is a military weapon and an AR-15 isn't. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I think the pistol is a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18C]]<br />
:Most likely since it was firing on Full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::It was pointed out that the firing rate wasn't the same speed as a real [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], but it could be that the developers couldn't quite get the slide and sound speed for a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]]. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or it could be a [[Glock]] firing on semi-automatic. [[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::That little er fires fast if its semi auto (pardon my language)<br />
:::::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18's]] did not have this color available. [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22's]] just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.<br />
<br />
==Weapons-trailers==<br />
<br />
Been seeing trailers online annoncing weapons and perks. How much cred do they have? Theres no footage to back it up, bt several announced weapons are in the screenshots. They also list the 110 SASR, L85, L85 mg version, etc.<br />
:Weapon trailers? Where the hell can i find those? They could be really useful for the article.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Youtube, theres a "weapons" one that just lists guns, and a weapons and perks thing, the perks it actually ahs proof from the original teaser.<br />
<br />
:I wouldn't trust any of those youtube bull. One said there might be an XM8 in the game. I hope it does not. That's one more step towards having all the guns Rainbow Six have. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Those videos are pure speculation. I'm sure those are all . We will only document weapons that are confirmed by the developters and seen in gameplay.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hbar? ==<br />
I don't want to offend anyone but, what the mother is a Hbar?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Its the Heavy barreled variant of the Aug meant to be a squad based machine gun - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:Hbar could also be refering to anything really. Heavy barrel anything. I've seen plenty of AR-15 variants in movies with Hbars. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6211390/?hd=1&tag=live-schedule] Sometime when the player passes over ennemies' corpses, he can take their weapons. One of them (the other is often a FA-MAS) is a AUG. There is four letter after it, a H at the beginning and I don't see well the other 3. But there is only one variant of the AUG with a "H" in its name, and that's the HBar.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Could someone upload a image of the icon in the above video? The link isn't working for me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I just watched the E3 gameplay again. The AUG HBAR pick up symbol looks amazingly like the SA80 British service rifle. Might be a place holder or something.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
:I made a note of it in the actual page. It DOES look like an SA80 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::My money's on a mislabel. We know the standard AUG is confirmed (all those screenshots) so why not the HBAR too?--[[Special:Contributions/142.162.149.33|142.162.149.33]] 17:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you pause it right before you kill the guy who carried it it's an AUG. So therefore its a mislabel. (I wish I can upload the screenshot but dun know how.)<br />
:::Sign you posts for christ's sake.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
== Correct Name ==<br />
I think we should call this game Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 instead of just [[Modern Warfare 2]] because we have a entire alphabetized series of Call Of Duty in the Video Games Category and just putting this in the "M" section does not look we even have this page. If somebody knows how to put this in the "C" section with out changing the name that will be organized.<br />
<br />
:Well that's the problem. Originally it WAS called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and some still do, but officially, the publishers decided to shorten the title for some reason. We COULD for alphabetize sake, put Call of Duty in front so it fits with the others. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And I've successfully changed the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Wait, I thought the reason that this was called Modern Warfare 2 was because Infinity Ward no longer wanted to make any more WWII related games and as such gave the "Call of Duty" moniker to Treyarch. Modern Warfare is supposedly now a separate series from Call of Duty. [[User:Markit|Markit]]<br />
:Modern Warfare is its own series now and isn't a CoD game anymore.-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Or we could make a new "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" page which bring it here.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Actually, this game is still being published by Activision that published the previous game. It is STILL apart of the Call of Duty franchise, they just chose to officially call this game just Modern Warefare 2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Keep it modern warfare 2, but link them together, like GM did linking all the dirty harry movies together.<br />
<br />
I just saw a new official cover art for the game. It says<br />
CALL OF DUTY<br />
MODERN WARFARE 2<br />
so i think we should call it call of duty modern warfare 2 -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
Thats just the boxart. Officially by the gamedevs its only called Modern warefare 2. They just slapped "call of duty" on there because a lot of people are stupid enough not to realise this IS a sequel to Call of Duty 4: modern warefare [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
== Taskforce 141 = Rainbow Six ==<br />
<br />
A multinational commando unit? The moment I read that, I immediately thought Rainbow and well we really can't complain what kinds of weapons these guys uses since they are a fictional unit like Rainbow so they can use whatever they want. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I was expecting the task forece to be from the UN. That would be cool.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::But if they say they are are UN taskforce makes the team sound kinda...pointless Like the UN does anything. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I though Rainbow Six was a UN Task Force? Anyway, a movie or televison series about a UN Uber badass task force that were formed to catch international criminals would be really cool. The problem with the UN is that they try to be neutral and being neutral doesn't do anything. The UN should be reformed to be more of a International police that works against international criminals and make international laws.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
I like the UN the way it is. What you're talking about sounds like the first step to a totalitarian society.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
:What i'm talking about is stuff like Resolution 84. I also like the UN the way it is but, they fail at quick responses to genocide such as the Rwandan Genocide in 1994.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
In general they fail at mostly any response. They just don't have the power to back up their enforcement of peace. Any peace keeping force with too much power can be oppressive. Who will keep the peace keepers in check when they're suppose to keep us in check? Quite the dilemma. I just don't think the idea of the U.N. or anything similar can work.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
:The United States shall keep the UN in check, without US, there is no UN. They need us more than we need them. It might seem like typical arrogant American mentality, but from how things are, the US has more indirect influence and handle over the entire world. We are the world's insurance policy, the self proclaimed enforcer, guardian, peacekeeping super power despite all our internal problems with crime, money and other things, but because of our population and how relatively young our nation is, the intense diversity in culture and believes keeps us in check. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The Problem is when someone like Bush Jr. comes up and s everything up. Could you imagine having someone like him being President of The United States during the Cold War? Anyway, The UN did have a really good quick response to the North Korean invasion of South Korea. We almost had North Korea. If weren't for the goddamm chinese.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Yeah if it weren't for them all this Kim Jong Il shit wouldn't be happening and we wouldn't be about to go to war in Korea-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 18:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Hey Smith, if someone is at fault for not winning the Korean War and not having only one Korea, is Mao. Truman also kinda ed up by telling the 7th Fleet to enter the Taiwan Straits.<br />
:::Um, Task Force 141 is a play on Task Force 121, which in real life is a (dare I say) black ops verison of JSOC. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
I think the Task Force 141 is referring to Task Force 145 in reality. Task Force 145 is a joint force combining US and UK special forces<br />
<br />
Task Force 121 was in no way a Black Ops Unit. It was, as 145 is, a multinational military unit assigned dircetly to counter-terrorism. Task Force 121 no longer exists it is now known as 145, which is what Task Force 141 in the game is based off of.<br />
<br />
team rainbow was made to combat terrorism the old commander of ranbow is was a navy seal and a cia agent. he is the guy in clear and present danger is his name mr. clark.<br />
<br />
Yeah that's from the original book, Rainbow Six. The games are all based around it. He was and Ex-SEAL who was recruited by the CIA and became an Operator[a Spy, if you wanna be movie technical.]. His name was John Clark.<br />
<br />
:My Rainbow Six history isn't what it used to be, but I'm pretty sure John Clark was just the director of Rainbow and didn't do much field work (most of which was left to Ding Chavez, at least until the Vegas games when he was promoted to Six and Logan and Bishop were brought into the picture). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
True, he didn't do much feild. About all he did in the basis of feild work was at the end of the novel where they hunt down the Bio-terrorist's and chase them to their secondary base in Brazil. He run's the show basically as Feild Commander.<br />
<br />
Task Force 141 in-game is made-up of an unknown amount of countries military. The three that you can definately tell are, U.S. Military, British S.A.S., and Australian S.A.S.<br />
<br />
== More weapons comfirmed ==<br />
<br />
It seems that p90 is making a return and spas 12 will also be ingame<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKBEQoSpu8<br />
:That guy got a lot of the guns wrong and that AUG Hbar looked more like a SA80 to me. And what the hell is up the people thinking that the FAL in the trailer is a AK? It looks nothing like it!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:00, 6 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well, most people are unaware of all the different kinds of firearms. I'm surprise this guy in the vid ID as much as there was. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CPT. Price ==<br />
I hope we get to find out if CPT. Price from CoD4 survived or not. That's been bugging me... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:47, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I think it would cheapen the ending of Modern Warfare 1 if he survived.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:51, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
How would that cheapen the ending of the first game? It was never clear if any of the team's survived. What about the Mile High Club mission where you hear Price and Gaz talk? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Gaz got shot in the face with a Desert Eagle, he's dead.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
Captain Price leads the Task Force in this game!<br />
<br />
No, Soap leads the Task Force<br />
<br />
Soap does sound kind of similar to Cpt. Price. I guess Price rubbed off on him a little or something.<br />
<br />
*Price managed to last for sixty years without ageing, dying or trimming his moustache, so I can't see a little thing like being shot dead getting to him. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 10:16, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well...I would like if he came back right at the end and save Soap and Roach. But, he better have a even glourious moustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, recalling CoD1 a little more, Price has ''already'' died once in the series. He was shot dead on board the ''Tirpitz'' and you just left him there, only for him to turn up again in CoD2 apparently none the worse for it. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 08:26, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Didn't COD2 take place before COD1?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Can't remember, to be honest, I didn't play it that much; I was busy being an Annoyed PC Gamer because they took away my quicksaves, fire modes and health packs and replaced them with Not Being Killed Grenades [throw one to not be killed by that machinegun!]. Still, this is his second death in the series, so I wouldn't expect it to cramp his style much. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 12:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Gaz and Griggs got wasted though.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:03, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Cpt. Price in CoD 1 and 2 is a diffrent Price, most probably grandfather. And it is unsure if Price died or if he got promoted and got a higher position...<br />
<br />
*Oh come on, it's either a clone or the same guy, they just came up with that when people started seriously questioning an extremely silly off-hand reference. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 07:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Don't talk about something you don't know sh¤t about... [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Price_(Call_of_Duty_4)] the two Cpt. Price are two diffrent guys<br />
<br />
*Two different, totally identical guys. It's an elaborate cover story to hide that Price is invincible and immortal. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Captain Price is a symbol representing the glourious British Military. Ok, he is just a tradition for the Guys at Infinity Ward but it would be really cool if he was a symbol.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Hes dead a russian medic was seen trying to revive him but failed an started bashing his chest<br />
<br />
Gaz... gone, .50 AE round to the face and you're done. Price... I doubt he'd be returning because let's face it he did die in COD4 and the Russian medic wouldn't have pounded his chest if he didn't die. As far as previous games go, Price was able to return because they didn't really have a tight storyline to them. But this Modern Warfare series does. So if Price returns, I think it'll be a bit ridiculous.<br />
:I like that they Replaced Price with Soap but there is one thing i don't like about it.<br />
<br />
No Glourious Mustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, but apparently Soap has a glorious Mohawk. And Price could be a good Zombie.<br />
<br />
Even if Price lived through the end of COD4, do you really think he'd still fight?<br />
:What reason would there be for him ''not'' to? Guys get wounded and go back to active duty all the time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Voice Actor, Billy Murray, has been confirmed as having worked on the project, if that's worth anything.<br />
:: Unfortunatly that could just end up being part of a flashback mission like in CoD 4. Here's hoping it's for a part of the main game.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
-Hes in the new trailer. Seriously, end of debate- k9870<br />
::If you're on about the guy on the assault boat, all we see is a guy in a boonie from behind. I'm going to withhold judgement until the game actually comes out.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At beginning of the Takedown level, Royce addresses "Bravo Six," Price's call sign from CoD4. Keep in mind that Captain Macmillan was Alpha Six, and that Soap's call sign is ''rumored'' to be Papa Six.<br />
:: Except Bravo six was also Lt Vasquez's callsign. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: Except that Vasquez died in a nuclear explosion. Price's odds of survival are much better that someone who was nuked, crashed in a helicopter, and then exposed to radiation. <br />
::: Hence my point, which is that the callsign is non-indicative. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think everyone here just needs to except that Cpt. Price has returned and is immortal like many other great men with Facial hair (I.E Gordan Freeman, Solid Snake, Chewbacca)<br />
:Actually chewbacca dies. Gets a moon crashing into him.-protoAuthor 05:22, 18 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
it has been rumored that captain price (billy murray) will return as the commander of the 22 reg along with SSGT griggs (somehow) due to the fact we have been told (through the twitter page) that the voice actors have been paid record their voices but even then thiers nothing from stoping them from making another flashback mission with them<br />
<br />
:Hence my original point. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:53, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
sorry ment to update that earlier CPT price is confirmed as retuning as the unit leader again after soap and roach break him out of a Russian prison (at that point price trys to kill roach but stops when he sees soap) the M1911 that you see on soap is the same as whats from MW1 which is returned to price then you can figure the rest out. end of story. regards scarec<br />
<br />
The voice actor of SSGT. Griggs from the first MW, came back as the narrator of the SEALs in multiplayer. Same as Craig Fairbrass does as Ghost for all the Special Ops missions and for Task Force 141 on multiplayer.<br />
<br />
:SEALs? Don't you mean Rangers? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
In Multiplayer, you have a different voice that announces the game for the Rangers. You would hear an american voice say "insert type of game", then he would say "Rangers lead the way". The voice of Griggs would say "insert type of game" then "let's do this", in mulitplayer, you can play middle easterns, Brazillians, russians, british, and Rangers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==General Observations==<br />
Though I freely admit I got wood watching this trailer one thing I noticed is that the guys from ''Infinity Ward'' seemed to have recycled some scenery. When they showed the guys running through the alleyways of Rio I swear it reminded me of the alleyways of the Arab capital the Marines run through in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]].<br />
<br />
:Not really. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The New pictures ==<br />
Could someone tell me where did that picture of the american soldier with the M4 came from?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/special-ops-characters --[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Jesus Christ, is the weapons section of that website all kinds of ed up. Thet called an FN-FAL a G3 and they called an AK-74 a AK-47. What the mother ? At least that means that we, IMFDB members, have the best website documenting weapons in Modern Warfare 2. But still, what the mother ?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
Is all the cussing necessary but yes I do agree that this website is the most reliable.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Wow... that site has the MP5 listed as being 40. S&W [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
LoL that site is horrible... if you think that page is bad just jump into the forums... all kinds of gems in there... read the one about the Taurus Raging Bull. the guy says "goodluck reloading its four barrels" <- That had me laughing with the stupidity of that statement. - Furious Oyster<br />
<br />
== TAR-21 or F2000? ==<br />
[[Image:MW2TR6.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Brazilian Militia firing the unknown rifle, presumably a[[FN F2000#FN F2000 Tactical|FN F2000 Tactical]]]]<br />
Isn't it a TAR-21 rather than a F2000?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's way too big to be a Tavor. Most likely an F2000.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah... the form is rather an F2000 too...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:My question is where the is the scope?-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 15:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::There is an version of the FN2000 that has the scope replaced with rails. I guess that's the one in the picture above.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Whats that under the F2000? Its too skinny to be an M203, I think its a shotugn--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 03:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Looks like an Remington 870.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
How the hell would they fit a shotgun/Masterkey on the three inches of forward rails that the F2000 has? More like a shotgun with an F2000 attachment, rather than the other way around.--[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well it definetly looks to be a shotgun, however it's mounted on there.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:I see it now. It is an F2000 with the shotgun attachment and the way the shotgun is attached makes the gun look retarded. They didn't make the SCAR's own grenade launcher attachment, so obviously they didn't do the F2000's attachment and worse, they didn't take off the removeable handguard and just put the M203 directly under the barrel, they had to slap it at the bottom of the damn thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
::I have heard however that the F2000s red dot sight in multiplayer is the standard F2000 optical sight, much like the TAR-21 uses the MARS sight in multiplayer as well, and the L86 uses the SUSAT in place of the ACOG. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::I've used F2000s with the standard scope in Special Ops and the L86 does indeed have a SUSAT (that thing is horrible, BTW) in place of the ACOG. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:37, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MP7? Are you sure? ==<br />
<br />
Where do you exactly see MP7?<br />
<br />
I only see custom MP5 (or MP5k without foregrip) on the right and two copies of another unidentified weapons on the left.<br />
They have curved magazines where MP7 has foregrip and their casing is completly different.<br />
MP7 doesn't match...<br />
[[User:Morihaus|Morihaus]] 17:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)Morihaus<br />
<br />
I saw a picture of it yesterday and i cant remember where. and i think it was a russian behind a shield, but im not sure if i remember that correctly. but the MP7 is definitely here -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
The MP7A1 is seen in the Reveal trailer in the hands of the Brazilian Secret Service agents fighting off an insurgent force from a crashed C-130-Kellers357<br />
<br />
== FAL Please ==<br />
<br />
I know one of the screenshots show's what appears to be an MD-2, but I still wanan see a FAL in MW2. I'm getting annoyed by G36Cs and M16s and G3KA4s in all these games. The FAL was a true combat rifle, and I do has want (sorry for net speak)--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 20:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: I absolutely agree with the above statement-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Me too but, the MD-2 is good enough for me. And it is Brazilian! That makes me proud of being Brazilian.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: I like the Imbel also, its a pretty solid gun-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Which Imbel? Imbel is the manufacturer.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Their FAL copy with the fixed stock (it's the only one I've held)-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 22:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Those are just called FN FALs.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::The Imbel is great and all, but the FAL is a solid 7.62 rifle. Also, I noticed they're using the AUG A1, not A3 for MW2. I'm pleased with that as the original AUG model was always my favorite.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:08, 26 June <br />
2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TDI "Kriss" ==<br />
I know the Kriss is going to be hyped in MW2, as its a powerful .45 ACP SMG that has virtually no recoil and great accuracy. But the guys at IW won't let such a perfect gun into multiplayer, because it'll turn into a noob weapon fast. My bet's on that they purposely change one of it's stats to make it more balanced. Any guesses on what they'll take away from it? My bet is make it less powerful.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There IS recoil in the Kriss. Every gun has recoil.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::True, but it varies what the recoil force actually ''does'' and how much of it the user feels; the recoil has to go somewhere, but it can be towards things like fighting the gun's own muzzle climb by shoving a weight downwards [as with the Kriss], stopping a barrel that's moving forwards [as with the XM307 / XM312], or quite a number of other things. The general idea is that the Kriss has very light felt recoil for its weight [less than half the weight of a Thompson] because of the novel operating system. And I imagine they'll either limit the magazine, turn it into a peashooter or make it horribly inaccurate. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 02:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or Infinity Ward could make the Kriss a Kicking Rad gun that you will get when you reach the highest level. An all around gun.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 02:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::What about the Rate of Fire? i don't remember if the Kriss had a high R.O.F. or not<br />
:::::From the Future Weapons video I watched on the Kriss, it seems to have an average MP5 like rate of fire. But if IW does let the Kriss go all out, it'll be revenge of the pwned when people get a hold of it. Take that noob tubers! Have some .45 slugs in the face!--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Hey man, the noob tube is awesome.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::People who hates tubers are just gamers. Sure I get off when I get hit in the face by an M203, but hell, I use one too. It's a very good field weapon. In combat, there is no such thing as cheap shot. There's hit and miss. Even in games, if you killed a guy, it's a kill, doesn't matter how you did it, unless you used cheats, but I use the M203 all the time, and 2 shells is what you get in multiplayer, so quit complaining, those on the recieving end of my tube. Now the P90 was a widely used gun for noobs cause of it's high ROF and mag capacity and with the slight of hand perk, you can reload the faster than you could in real life[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::People who complain about tubes in modern games don't remember the days of real noob-tubes, back when the 203 was your alt fire, had realistically-sized splash and had a zero arming distance, and a newbie could easily end a game with a positive score just by firing it point-blank whenever they had more than one person in front of them. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 07:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
I agree i just hate the loss of a perk its better than juggernaut.--[[User:Panther61DC08|Panther61DC08]] 20:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::ANYTHING is better then juggernaut man. And yeah, I use the M203 from time to time, but people who use it constantly should really just go sit down.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Most online gamers are idiots who most likely don't know the difference between a bullet and a bolt carrier, so they're going to label anyone who kills them a [insert gun name here] noob. If you kill them with an M4, you're an M4 noob. If you kill them with a P90, you're a P90 noob. If you kill them with a shotgun, you're a shotgun noob. It never ends. The point of playing a game is to have fun, so I'm gonna use what I like to use (including the 203) regardless of what everyone else thinks about it. If I nail some tit in the face with a 40 mike-mike, they can whine and cry "noob tuber" all f'n day, it isn't going to change that I put a 40 mike-mike into their face. Only thing about me is that I can do it from a block away (an in-game block, I mean), rather than at point blank. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
:I have a Class that it's specialty is to piss people off. Yes, i am a asshole. BUT, i am a professional asshole.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As far as the Kriss goes they sure as hell have never fired it (which disappoints me that they put all these exotic weapons in that they really havent touched... in COD4 they actually fired most of the weapons and that gave it a level of authenticity) so i dont think they'll pay attention to the fact that it takes most of the recoil for you. when you fire it youll probably be shooting all over the place with heavy recoil -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
::Well looky here, an icon for picking up a "FAL Red Dot sight" In the Multiplayer trailer. There is a god, because the FN FAL has finally made it into an awesome game![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 05:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Kriss does seem to have a comparably short barrel to the UMP. IW could lower the damage due to the lower velocity? not sure what barrel length is ideal for .45ACP but I just thought that could be used as a reason to balance? that and the Kriss only uses the .45 Glock pistol mags correct? so maybe your attachment is an extended mag to help compete? -FuriousOyster<br />
<br />
:From what we've seen, the Kriss in MW2 is already being used with the experimental 26 round magazine currently being developed for the gun. As for barrel length, it's on par with the UMP, plus its shorter overall. Who knows, maybe IW will just make the Kriss what it is in real life, a hard and precise hitting sub machine gun. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Apparently IW got the Kriss right on how controllable it is when firing on full auto. It doesn't go all over the place. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The Vector is stunningly good. A bit down on power, but accurate and it can handle it's high ROF. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:Been unlocking the attachments for the Vector and it is kind of nerf on the power. It's really not the strong, but has a high rate of fire and accuracy [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== HK416? ==<br />
<br />
Possible HK416-<br />
<br />
The SAS guy with the Mohawk & Glock @ 0:30 of the reveal trailer seems to carry something resembling an HK416 (Notice the rear H&K hallmark diopter sights...).<br />
--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 15:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Thats actually Soap. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
that is either the M4 or M468(most likely an M4)<br />
<br />
Why would they add the HK 416? Internally it's far superior to the M4, but as far as video games go they're virtually the same.<br />
<br />
I hope they don't. It's not that I necessarily hate the HK416 (well, okay, maybe I do ''a little bit''), but let's give LWRC's or Colt's gas pistons some love. The 416 and XM8 are way overused in shooters today. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
:And the rear sight on Soap's M4 looks more like an ARMS #40L to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:Again, why do people think that when they see a cool looking AR15 in a game or a movie shot they RIGHT AWAY say, HK416 or M468 AKA REC7 as it is called now.? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::Because a lot of people are so fracking biased against DI guns that it's crazy. They're quick to tout the AK's widespread use as an example of its so-called "superiority", but that same argument means "absolutely nothing" to the same people when it's applied to the M4 and variants ''chosen'' by elite forces all over the planet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:34, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
yeah, i agree, it is ridiculous, especially since you can upgrade an m4 to perform exactly like any of the other new weapons and do it for a $1,000 cheaper. it makes you wonder why were even replacing the m4?<br />
:Same reason the army bought a new grenade launcher: It's shiny and new. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
Well you have to think about the old saying. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. But with weapon systems, they do get out dated and don't last forever. Eventually it's naturally to want to replace what you have now even though it's an effective piece of equipment that's served you for many years. Think back when the M16 was first introduced. It got so much crap from the old timers in the military that it took almost a decade to get it fielded. And now the M16 is a beloved icon of American power and loved by millions. Times change and so would weapons. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:55, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==FN P90==<br />
Why haven't anyone added the P90? It has been confirmed and in the E3 trailer there was a pickup icon for the P90 and it said "Press # to ick up P90"<br />
:Did you miss [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Modern_Warfare_2#FN_P90TR this?]-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Re-added ==<br />
Hey evryone Activision has decided to re-add the Call of Duty prefix back to the Modern Warfare 2 title making the game now being called: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, instead of just Modern Warfare 2? Actvision added the Call of Duty prefix because of the lowered awareness of the Call of Duty series [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 17:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:So we're changing the name again on this site? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The changing is not official yet. They're still calling the game "''Modern Warfare 2''" (source: [http://kotaku.com/5315981/infinity-ward-talks-modern-warfare-2-43-stories-up]). In fact, nobody at Activision or Infinty Ward ever called the game "''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2''", search any quotes you want. Also, the hardened and prestiges editions (collector versions) don't have "''Call of Duty''" on their boxes.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 14:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Walther WA2000 ==<br />
Does someone has an ingame picture of this game, because I doubt its presence in the game. And there is no use for a weapon to be listed if there is no proof.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I strongly concur with Phantom. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:16, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Behold, a really, really silly bundle: ==<br />
<br />
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=219720<br />
<br />
I can understand doing that for something like a ''Splinter Cell'' bundle (sorta), but... [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 08:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm so getting that... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
NVG's that max out to 50 feet, failll<br />
<br />
:*facedesk* Behold, NVGs for less then 200 with a $70 game and art book, Who wants to bet those are made by a company who's name you can't pronounce and is based in a country that rhymes with Dina? Anyhow, I already pre-ordered the standard game, I don't need fancy art books and hard cases and crappy NVGs, I just want what may be the best FPS ever created, period. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I'm don't want the nod to use, I just want them as a bad-@$$ display for the living room. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
== Cover Restoration ==<br />
Does anyone have any unique or expensive software to put this image on the front page?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Cover.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Original]]<br />
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Final.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The best I could do.]]<br />
<br />
It's not the standard edition box.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:06, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== SPAS-12? ==<br />
Do you think this shotgun is a SPAS-12? Since we were shown that there is one in this level during a gameplay demo, it could be possible.<br />
[[Image:MW2shotgunspa.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
<br />
its a FAMAS- the folded bipod<br />
<br />
:Nope, it's a WA2000<br />
<br />
::The Walther WA2000 has a "skeletal" look to it and is a bolt-action sniper rifle. This image shows the weapon having a pump gauge at the bottom, meaning that it must be some sort of shotgun, as opposed to the WA2000's bolt-action. <s>Besides, I may be mistaken since I don't pay much attention to the FAMAS, but the last time I checked, the FAMAS didn't have a folding stock.</s> --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Sorry, I didn't see that you meant "bipod", not "stock". I don't see the point in the FAMAS having one of those, either. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's not a shotgun, the "handgrip" is too long to be a pump like you were saying, i agree with the fact that it is a WA2000, it has the same front end and flash hider as the walther. By the way, the walther can be either semi or bolt action.<br />
<br />
yeah i think its a Wa200 too, you can even see a fat ol' scope and a bipod on it. look real close for the scope.<br />
<br />
Now that I think about it, it looks more of a WA200, if not a SPAS-12, and it is definitely not a FAMAS. And please, fellas, sign your edits. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Confirmed Weapons ==<br />
Could someone tell me where those weapons were confirmed?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Which one?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::All of them. But if you can only confirm only one, then confirm the MD3.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::For the Imbel, I think it's almost sure. It has the look, it's Brazil... But it can still be a FAL... For the others like G36, Walter WA2000 or HK416, I will delete them until they provide us screenshots or other proofs that these weapons will be in the game. They think because modernwarfare247.com has listed them, it will be in the game but it's just a fansite, not an official one, and they don't have ingame screens to prove like us.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, the Imbel Makes sense to be in the game.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The forearm looks more like an Imbel than a FAL too.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Does this help on the FAL?<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Fal_online_vid.png<br />
[[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]]<br />
:HELL YES. Thank god there is a FAL in this. And, yes that helps on the FN FAL.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:53, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::So, it's almost sure that the weapons carried by the brazilians are FAL? I don't think they will include two weapons pretty identical... Unless they changed the rate of fire on each weapon much like the M4/M16 AR.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:02, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's the Imbel but Infinity Ward named it FN FAL. Like the AKMSU/AK-74S fuck up in Modern Warfare 1.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think its the fal, it looks like it uses a bigger magazine therefore a bigger round, the MD 3 uses 223, the fal uses 308<br />
::I noticed that too. It looks like a FN FAL with an 30 round magazine. But look at the Forearm. It looks like an MD-3 forearm to me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::But it could be based on the DSA SA-58, which has a shorter fore end, and curved .308 mags do exist. Either way though, a FAL in Mw2 is win in my books. Infact, here's a nice picture that may help that theory, [url]http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg[/url] [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Terribly disappointed that the 1911 is not used in multiplayer - JanG<br />
<br />
:Not just disappointing, it's a crime. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:54, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M4==<br />
<br />
The M4 used in the game had been confirmed as a Bushmaster M4. According to one of the guys working on MW2 he has told in the Call of Duty wikia that the M4 is a Bushmaster M4.... Could someone add that??<br />
<br />
:wheres the proof?<br />
<br />
::As of now, nothing can be added to the main article since there are no sources or evidence that provide the actual facts. Do you happen to have a link of the official statement? I think what he means is that the M4 (when mounted with sights or scopes) looks like a Bushmaster ORC (Optics-Ready Carbine), since it's rear and front sights are already removed. But just because it looks like it doesn't mean it has to be a Bushmaster. And again, guys, please sign your edits. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 21:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The M4 IS a Bushmaster! And proof is right here on IMFDB! I took this from the pic of Soap and enlarged it.<br />
<br />
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm97/SpartanWarrior198/Soap_Bushmaster_M4.jpg<br />
<br />
Snake logo on the mag well is Bushmaster's. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And I just noticed Soap is wearing US Army UCP, as well... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:So what? In this fictional universe, Bushmaster makes all the M4s? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, true, but this is a video game set in the near future. It could very well be possible that Bushmaster took over M4 production from Colt (since their exclusivity agreement expired back in June) in the Modern Warfare world.[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And I doubt IW would put two or more different identical "M4s" in the game. I can see an M4 and HK416 or REC7 put side-by-side in the game because there are some slight external differences (and caliber increase in the case of the REC7), but there'd be no point in having separate Colt and Bushmaster M4s, both virtually identical externally, at the same time. But then again the still above could very well be just promotional with a Bushmaster put in because it's all they had available to model. But we'll find out for sure Nov. 10th... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Hmm... Bushmaster may have used the Call of Duty franchise to advertise for their weapons, as seen on the lower receiver of the M4. Maybe likely, maybe not; but it is a possibility. Cheers, --{{User:Blemo/Sig}}<br />
::::HK did it with R6, so why can't Bushmaster do it with MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1887==<br />
<br />
No way this is a winchester 1887, you have to out of your mind to think that.<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:MW2Winch1887.jpg<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Winchester1887shotgun.jpg<br />
<br />
yeah dude there's one in there, it must be like a cheat code to get it but there is a picture.<br />
<br />
I dought you need a cheat code to get it as the enemy you can kill and take their weapons have it. <br />
Also it could be the Chinese copy.<br />
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
There was a ''Public Ennemies'' version of the weapon which was closer to the one in the screenshot, but it has been deleted.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I think it would be peculiar to have the old lever shotgun in MW2, but definitely a cool choice of gun. It may not be the fastest or most powerful, but it has nostalgia and cool to it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It could be like the Stg-44 from COD4, a retro weapon. <br />
It was called MP44 in Cod4 not Stg-44 that was in W@W just trying to help. -FuriousOyste<br />
: The MP44/StG-44 was only in CoD4 as a nod to the other games in the franchise which are all set during WW2. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Maybe you can unlock Price's mustache as a nod to his awesomely awesome mustache from MW1? =D -FuriousOyster<br />
<br />
Since IW seem to be going along the "fun" route while still sticking to a semi-realism point of view, it's probably safe to assume this was added as a "fun gun". It's likely with the recent videos of the "Flag Runner" and the addition of throwing knives there adding weapons that no serious soldier would use in direct combat but would be awesome to use a video game multiplayer match. It's possible they added it as a reference to Terminator 2, I wonder if they'll add the M79 and a portable minigun... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:11, 02 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There should be two reload animations. The first one you reload normally but in the second one you reload like the T-600, With one goddamm hand.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That was only chambering fresh rounds, not reloading it, but I see your poit. Either way though, having an old school lever action shotty will surely make things, uh, interesting? And throwing knives will just attract goddamn ninjas. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ninjas that I'll gladly lay waste to in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Amen to that man, they can throw all the knives they want, but that won't stop them from taking a burst of FAL rounds in the chest. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"Those who live by the sword get shot by the ones who don't". Ninja's were cowards anyways. They retreated rather than fought most of the time-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:05, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Not to mention that was against bows and arrows, not automatic rifles. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
for the reload animations I think the shells are being loaded in to the barrel!!<br />
<br />
:No my friend, thats just how you load a lever shotgun. The tube you load the shells in to is the magazine, and the tube below it is where they eject from when you cock the gun after a shot. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Don't debate on the articles ==<br />
<br />
Stop debating on the page do it in here that's what it is for.<br />
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am confused you say not to debate here but then you say to debate here. I am new to this.<br />
::Jake, can you speak english?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I mean don't debate on the main page with the articles it clutters it.--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 05:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::What Jake means, is that to hold all disputes, comments, and debates on the discussion (talk) page, instead of the article itself. The page you are looking at is the talk page and you should type any comments on this page. If you look at the top, there are seven tabs (varies on your status and monobook of the wiki), but for more users, it says, "page, discussion, edit, +, history, move, & watch". Make sure the "discussion" tab is pressed before you make your edit. Typing in the tab that says "page" makes the article look unprofessional and a hassle to read. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 21:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::I'll move all the discussion here...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 13:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Glock ==<br />
The GameTrailers Analysis states that it is a [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22]], but this is unconfirmed. It could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] since in the video demo shown at the E3 conference, it fires fully automatically. <br />
[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] - 9x19mm. This model has compensator cuts on the slide and barrel to reduce muzzle climb while firing]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Glock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A [[Glock]] fired by "Roach" on a snowmobile in Mission "Cliffhangar". Note olive-drab frame.]]<br />
[[Image:MW2SpOpGlock.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This US special ops has a olive-drab framed Glock in his thigh holster (barely off-shot).]]<br />
<br />
*An interesting note is that the Glock fires dramatically slower than a Glock 18 or other converted Glocks. The Glock from the video's rate of fire is only around 600-700 RPM, where as a real Automatic Glock fires around 1100+ RPM -- Mythekal<br />
<br />
:The guy COULD just be firing in semi VERY fast so that it seems like it's full auto. A lot of the handguns in COD4 if you tap the trigger in quick successions, it seems almost full auto [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". Glock 18's did not have this color available. Glock 22's just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a Glock 18 with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.<br />
<br />
:::Not to disagree with you, I mean, you strike a really good point, but I've seen video game companies butcher their weapons into having colors or functions that they don't even have in the first place. Perhaps this is the case, although highly unlikely. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:08, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not sure if anybody noticed, but the G18s in game does not have a selector switch - JanG<br />
<br />
== H&K USP .45 ==<br />
Shown in a stage demo for GameSpot, Roach wields it with a knife at the same time. There is a similar technique where you do this with a flashlight. If someone would care to name it please do as I forgot for the moment.<br />
<br />
*Take your pick from CQC, CQB, Combatives or Defendu. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
** The particular technique shown below with the support arm under the wrist of the main arm indexing the flashlight along the axis of the barrel is called the Harris Method. In this case it's being done with a knife presumably because it looks cool.<br />
*** It's actually done for CQC and not just cause it looks cool. A similar method to this is what Snake does on MGS.But he holds the Knife with the gun by the grips.Perhaps the Harries method is more comfortable than Snake's CQC method,so they made it that way.<br />
**** <br />
[[Image:HK-USP.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch USP .45 ACP. Note the slightly longer barrel/slide and grip compared to the 9mm and .40 S&W models above.]]<br />
[[Image:USP_with_knife.JPG|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
== Akimbo ==<br />
<br />
*Need some confirmation on this as I cant find any videos or images of this, supposedly the player is now able to Dual wield or go Akimbo with Pistols, particularly twin desert eagles were seen in a demonstration during a show off session to fans. <br />
<br />
This is one of the websites with this article:<br />
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/08/27/modern-warfare-2-has-guns-akimbo/1<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
<br />
:There was a screenshot of the Desert Eagle being held akimbo during a gameshow in Vegas (the name of which I forgot...) I'm not sure if it was already added to the article, but I'll take a look. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Now Akimbo? I'm having less and less faith in this new game with most of these cliche shit added on. We got too many kinds of new guns enough to put Rainbow Six to shame, odd matches for people and prototype guns in wide use. This game went from pretty cool to up down cliche generic shooter. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Leaked Video ==<br />
<br />
Found this video while searching the net on youtube. <br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FuwFT4p5hA<br />
<br />
At 1:28 there appears to be a new weapon, it looks like it says "Shotgun" but the video is low qaulity and I'm having a hard time finding out what it is? The icon image looks similar to that of a Saiga shotgun but I'm not sure. From the looks of it, the IMI Mini Uzi will be making a return.<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
[[Image:Mw2brazilshotgun.png]] I think it says (litterally) "FAL w/ Shotgun"... Shotgun attachment?!--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
MASTERKEY! that would be awesome! on the other hand... COD4 shotguns were pretty pointless. so I doubt an even shorter barreled one would be worth it.<br />
<br />
:Yeah, there have been rumors of an under-slung shotgun attachment. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That does surely say FAL with Shotgun, as it matches the shape of the other FAL seen in a trailer, sweet! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
also confirmed in game masterkey is avalible -scarecrow<br />
<br />
== Continuity Error(??) ==<br />
<br />
Perhaps, in the E3 Gameplay video, the Infinity Ward boyz made a continuity error. If you will, note that Roach is first seen using a USP .45, but later, on the snowmobile, he switches to a Glock 18/22/whatever. Just a thought.<br />
<br />
:Doubt it. games arn't that sloppy. Its probably given to you when you board the snowmobile because firing a semiautomatic weapon while you are going pretty fast wouldn't help much unless you have a very steady hand. better to have a wide spread than accuracy when you cant predict the enemy that well. [[user:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
::Well apparently you are able to equip 3 weapons?, but that still wouldn't explain how he got that glock.<br />
<br />
:::What 5t3v0 says is true. Video game developers aren't that sloppy and I think that the publishers purposefully made this so-called "continuity error". I think that the Glock is for use only for the snowmobile portion of the mission, since its high rate of fire (compared to the HK USP .45) is more ideal for tracking and shooting fast-moving vehicles. Many other video games during their vehicle missions use the same logic (i.e. a mounted machine gun on the snowmobile in [[007: Nightfire]]). --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::There's one on each of the snowmobiles, There's a holster somewhere.<br />
<br />
Okay first of all, i know you know its just a game, so thats my first statement, and my second is, who says you cant have another holster on you, one on your thigh, one on your rig, or two on both your thighs? and then you either have access to it in the game or you dont, and we can all pretend like roach just doesnt want to use it until the snowmobile thing or something like that.<br />
<br />
== New mw video ==<br />
<br />
Gentlemen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4PMRFkx07g<br />
<br />
<br />
Damn, the MP5K Looks SWEET! And throwing knives? kick-ass!!! man as soon as this is released im disowning my copy of COD4.<br />
<br />
== Double Barrel Shotty ==<br />
<br />
According to the guys over at the COD Wiki, the Double barrel shotgun will make a return(from COD5), has anyone else seen this?<br />
<br />
* It's possible with the inclusion of other "fun" weapons like the Winchester M1887 and Throwing knives, but I'm not going to get my hopes up about it... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:18, 02 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:Try not to include wiki as a source unless there's pics of the actual shotgun ingame. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:41, 2 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The OXM stated that (Official Xbox Magazine). The DB shotgun will have separate trigger for each barrel.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:44, 3 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::You said it will make a return, it never was in cod4, or are you referring to cod5? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 15:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Sorry, shouldve been a little clearer, i was referring to cod5<br />
<br />
== Mk14 Rifle ==<br />
<br />
The Mk14 on the screenshot is not a Mk14 Mod0 battle rifle but a Mk14 Mod1 ([http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/albums/closeup/Mk_14_Mod_1.jpg]), the second modification. Still based on the M14/M1A battle rifle/semi-auto rifle, but using M4 grip and stock with the EBR chassis. The version used by soaped also seems to sport a Magpul MOE stock with cheek rest.<br />
<br />
Now that I see that new picture on the page with the mk14 in it I think that it is also a mod 1. Who else is thinks so?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
== Highrise Gameplay videos (Cam) ==<br />
<br />
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/modern-warfare-2/11043<br />
<br />
Just saw this today, the "trailer" section also has a trailer cam of a predator missile and a supply drop, it also shows off the UMP45.<br />
<br />
The newer highrise videos show a few weapons in the game that would now be deemed confirmed to a degree. It's labelled 1 through 5 in parts. They all feature different guns, I remember seeing two icons, one which was thought to be a place holder, the L85 was displayed as the L86 LSW (maybe an attachment for the L85?) including a PP-2000 Akimbo. Other's include various MG's which I can't identify, a SPAS-12 shotgun in full view (with appropriate icon) and the FAMAS and UMP.<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The videos from Gametrailers also seem to show a silenced SPAS 12, which should be fun. <br />
<br />
[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:14, 16 September 2009<br />
<br />
== New video confirms a few weapons==<br />
<br />
A few weapons are probably confirmed by this video from Screwattack, PP-2000 amongst them.<br />
http://www.screwattack.com/Events/MW2HandsOn<br />
[[User:DAnnysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 14:39, 16 September 2009<br />
<br />
:Just from watching, I saw the FAMAS, RPD, M4, SCAR, PP2000, AT4 (now a weapon not a perk, and more.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] <br />
00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
everything in the game is now content locked. that means any weapon seen will be in the final game<br />
<br />
happy hunting<br />
<br />
==Zombie Mode==<br />
<br />
Any idea if theyll have one?<br />
<br />
No they wont. Instead they have a spec-ops mode. Besides, its not cool of Infinity ward to copy treyarchs thing. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]<br />
<br />
Yeah, especially when Treyarch has made an entire career out of copying Infinity Ward<br />
<br />
== Create A Class Menu ==<br />
<br />
Several weapons,perks, and attachments have now been confirmed in a new video's on youtube including [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], [[PP-2000]], [[M79 grenade launcher]], [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]], [[RPD light machine gun]], [[Franchi SPAS-12]] and much more. <br />
<br />
Source: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s]<br />
<br />
[[Image:CreateAClass.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Create a Class Menu.]]<br />
<br />
== Infamy (New Trailer) ==<br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8toHfZm6jNE<br />
<br />
The Guy in the Airport wearing a black suit (presumably this Makarov character) looks like he was carrying a SCAR-L but then I noticed the RIS rails to which it was just a regular M4. It was weird how they made look very similar to the SCAR-L, yet at 1:31 in the Infamy trailer there's a guy with outline of the SCAR-L. It looks like the "Mini-Uzi" is now confirmed to be apart of the machine pistol lineup of weapons. Also does anyone think the AK at 0:57 looks odd? Kinda looks to me like a AN-94. - [[Draco122|Draco122]] 07:07 05 October 2009<br />
<br />
*The weapon Makarov was holding looked like an M4 to me, but I think your right about the Mini-Uzi being a machine pistol now. And as for the AK it looked like the rest of the AKs I've seen from ingame pictures and footage. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 20:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The guy is holding an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Russian tactical team that responded to the airport attack were referred by Makarov as FSBs. Even though they did deploy from SWAT vans marked as FSB, the Russian soldiers actually wear MVD uniforms, meaning that they were actually interior troops.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 18:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wall of guns ==<br />
<br />
Just got this off of Gametrailers TV. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[Image:MW2wallofguns.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
*Too late, man.)<br />
<br />
== Sentry Gun ==<br />
<br />
On Gamesrader.com, an article on the impressions of MW2, mentions a Sentry Gun in the Kill Streak list. After doing some research, I've found a supposed concept of the Sentry Gun on Modernwarfare247.com. Apparently it seems to be the XM312 .50Cal fitted with a Camera. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[Image:Leaked-mw2-art-book-12.jpg|300px|thumb|none|XM312]]<br />
<br />
<br />
maybe its a .50BMG on a CROWS-type system<br />
<br />
:The Sentry Gun in the game is an M134 on a tripod, as I've used some in MP. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Screenshot==<br />
<br />
The first two are Scars, the second has a Masterkey, the third with an ACOG doesnt quite look right, and I cant tell what the digital one is, any help?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Mw2scars.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
<br />
The two on the right might be ACR's--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 03:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The digital one is the bushmaster ACR. It looks a little funny but that is it.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
== W2000 ==<br />
<br />
I'm not 100% certain on this, but isn't the W2000 a collector's sniper rifle? I mean this is a rather expensive sniper rifle made as a colector's rifle. So why would the military be using it in whatever war this game takes place in?<br />
<br />
And we're supposed to know the thought process behind Infinity Ward's weapon decisions how?<br />
<br />
Remember the game black where w2000s were just laying all over eastern europe?<br />
<br />
:Yeah, ever since Black came out, WA2000s have been known to be laying all across Europe, ripe for the picking! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Haha Agent 47 spends thousands of dollars just to maintain one yet European armies can buy millions of them just to lay around randomly :P<br />
<br />
From my play through, I can only find one. The one you see on the wall of guns picture.<br />
<br />
I've seen them in several missions. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Unfocused ==<br />
<br />
This game is looking more and more gimmicky by the day. It's as if they're going all out to jam as much modern technology into the game as possible, whether it makes sense or not. Brazilian militia with FN F2000 assault rifles? Russian terrorists with the TDI Vector? ''Really''? --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 08:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's true that I feel the game is adding so much new stuff it won't be anything like CoD4. It bothers me that Infinity Ward is going over the top just because of its huge fanbase.<br />
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
For those of you who have seen "Lord of War", remember Nicolas Cage's quote: "Where there's a will, there's a weapon." I'm sure that their theory for the MW2 universe is that some FN or TDI salesmen forgot who they were working for, and sold their latest & greatest weapons to the bad guys, and got paid more in a day or two than they would earn working for a decade. I believe that money is the most corrupting force on Earth. Also, I do recall a story about some F2000s winding up in the hands of a militia in East Timor a few years ago, and I'm not sure whether or not FN figured out how they got there. <br />
-KLR<br />
:I've heard of this happening with a custom M14 maker. One of their people was rebuilding some MK14Mod0 on the side and smuggling them to the phillipines if i rememger correctly. The man was caught and is spending a long vacation is club fed. --[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As much as I agree that the weapons are going a little crazy (how the hell do Brazilians in the slums of Rio get their hands on such powerful NATO weaponry?), remember this game isn't set in the present day, its sometime in 2016 I think. So who knows, in that year the rarer weapons of today may be more widely available. Unlikely I know, but possible. [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 10:45, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And besides, the game would be very boring if everyone had AK's. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not exactly. Im not liking the whole high end weapons idea for militia. I would have been fine seeing militia using ak variants and other common battle rifles. --[[User:mythekal|mythekal]]<br />
<br />
You must remember that all gangs in Rio get majority of there weapons from buying over seas and from corrupt military and police units, who themselves have stockpiles of powerful NATO weapons (M4s, AKs, FNs,etc.). And the Brazilian militia's leader is an Arms Dealer who has ties with the Ultranationalists, any Arms dealer that big can afford to give his men some much more flashier weapons! Also this is just a game too!--[[User:Choi117|Choi117]]<br />
<br />
In the first game the russians had g36cs, ak-47s, m9s and 1911s, not like, ak-74s and makarovs. In this they seem to have gone to just having tacticool bullpups and high-end everything.....I laugh if you pick p an m9 in brazil even though your infinitely more likely to get a taurus pt92.<br />
<br />
<br />
One aspect of Modern Warfare 2 is notably the fact, that although not identified by developers, is the way in which the worlds runs, MONEY!, believe it or not but the American government has been dealing arms for years, all to up there pay check, the result is quite devastating, its give there own troops a disadvantage but what do they care money's, money, they would give nuclear weapons to iraq if there was enough money.<br />
<br />
:Actually, the American government deals arms mainly to friendly nations and used to deal arms to CIA backed insurgencies. So, you know, they wouldn't be selling things like NUKES you moron. As far as the purchase of these weapons, just consider Mexico today: You have a 'military' (if you can really call the Mexican Army a military) where 250,000 soldiers have left to work for a drug cartel or just left the country, leaving their rifles with the cartels. Then you have those same cartels buying firearms from third world SA countries that were provided firearms by the US for insurgencies. Then you have cartels buying firearms from people very similar to Cage's character in Lord of War. In 2016, it's more than believable taht those dealers could be selling ill-gotten FN2000's to wherever they damn well please.<br />
<br />
I think that they are adding all of these guns because after Zakheav died the ultranationalists kinda fell apart and now they use anything they get their hands on so some of their guys probably decided too buy their own guns and thought they might as weel go big.<br />
<br />
- If you think this game is unfocused you haven't seen the 25 kill streak perk yet! A Freaking Tactical Nuke, I'm not joking: http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/modern-warfare-2-25th-killstreak/333858[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
That idea makes the game sound more ridiculous than it already is. This is way over the top now.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Can someone explain what "in egoview" means? pictures have the caption something like "the SPAS-12 in egoview " somethign like that. Is it suposed to mean first-person view, only written by someone with poor english?<br />
: Presumably it refers to First-Person view. If you look, all the HUD text in those shots is in German. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== M21 EBR ==<br />
<br />
Just to make sure no one changes it back. Even though it doesn't technically exist, that is what its called in game. The logic behind the name is: M21 (Sniperized M14) + M14 EBR (Modernized M14) = Modernized Sniperized M14 = M21 EBR<br />
<br />
Alright, to be blunt, I LOVE the M14. Whenever I used one in Call of Duty 4, it was like the second coming of Jesus Christ. I just got done reading that the M14 used in this game is, as said above, a M21 EBR, and is classified as a sniper rifle. When I found that out I was extremely pissed. What I don't get though, is that in the Breach and Clear video that is out there, there is clearly a Mk. 14, with open iron sights. Based on all of this bullcrap, it appears that you will not be able to use the M14/Mk.14 EBR/M21 EBR/or-whatever-the-heck-we-are-calling-it without a scope. I am aware that MW2 is somehow sneaking out into people's Xbox's already, and I would greatly appreciate if someone could elaborate on this?[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 00:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Putting a scope on a Mark 14 doesn't change its designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:52, 8 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
Been checking with various sources on M14's and this M21 EBR is just an M14 fitted into a Sage Stock. it's nothing more than the numerous M14's I've seen used as a DMR.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:35, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I say we just stick with calling it Mark 14 Mod 1 and note in the description that its in-game name is M21 EBR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And, while I've not yet played MP, every instance of Mark 14 use in SP refers to it as "M14 EBR". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:03, 11 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It's officially called the M21 EBR in MP. However a friend of mine tells me when fitted with an ACOG it makes for an alright assault type rifle. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::Still a Mark 14 as far as this site is concerned. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::And what pisses me off the most is that besides the scope and smaller magazine. it's a Mark 14 EBR. Why IW decided to turn it into a sniper is beyond me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::::I'd imagine they did it for balance, can't have a sniper rifle with a 20 shot magazine. Unless you get extended mags then maybe it might be better I dont know [[Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
::::::I don't see how that's supposed to balance anything. 20 round magazine or not, a sniper rifle is still a sniper rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Two new videos ==<br />
This is the level you get for beating the game.<br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhjh8KxFPkg<br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czJEO8skB64<br />
<br />
Damn good videos, I'll have a lot of fun with that museum :D Does this mean theres not going to be any semi-auto assualt rifles? Everything seems to be full auto in those videos...:( [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 19:38, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
in the video description it says that the person playing was using rapid fire.<br />
<br />
They likely removed the use of the G3 and M14 from Multiplayer due to people using the modified controllers to enable rapid firing, though I remember seeing that "Rapid Fire" was being made as an Attachment for weapons, not something I'd imagine seeing in singleplayer [[Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
:An added note about the "Museum" level is a button on the front desk. Press it and all the soldiers in the exhibits come alive and try to kill you! Good fun if you stock up from the weapons cases first. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Wow, Dual wielding all subguns?==<br />
<br />
watched video of dual mp5ks and p90s........wtf is wrong here?<br />
<br />
Where is this video?<br />
<br />
:Even worse, I heard it was possible to dual wield shotguns. [citation needed] Yeah, ordinarily I wouldn't just put that out there without a source, but given all the other stupid decisions IW have been making lately, I can believe it. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 01:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
you dual wield sawn off doubles, its showed in museum gameplay.<br />
<br />
:Wouldn't firing a sawed off one handed dislocate your shoulder?-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not necessarily, but that doesn’t mean it is the smartest way to shoot a firearm. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 05:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
You know what this means, every noob on the planet will be duel wielding in MW2 like it's Halo 3 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:23, 7 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Meh, who cares? Yeah, I think dual wielding is an action movie cliche, too, but I'll just play the game the way I want and everyone else will do the same. It most likely won't be long until people are whining and crying about "dual wield noobs" like they do about so-called "noob-tubers". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah, i use a noob tube on one of my classes myself, it may piss people off, but snipers piss me off. Besides, its not like the noob toob is good in close quarters, it only holds two rounds and has slow ass reloads. I use mine to countersnipe when they try and hide behind cover.<br />
<br />
:I only use noob tube when coming up against a map with lots of trenches or caves or buildings, the better to lob nades into. I prefer the ACOG in MW2, as now it doesn't suck like in CoD: 4 [[Special:Contributions/142.166.195.174|142.166.195.174]] 18:08, 11 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Anyone who cries about what weapons, perks, or attachments another player is using needs to either learn how to adapt to the environment and opposition or quite playing multi-player altogether. "ZOMG! He killed me with a grenade launcher! Not fair! Waaah waaah waaah!" Some people just need to grow the feck up and stop being pansies. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:49, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I agree. the M203 is a useful tool. so are shotguns, i was sick of hearing "SHOTGUN NOOB!" after the first time i heard it. now this is just an opinion but when indoors and within the effective range, i dont think theres a better weapon. they provide a large spread pattern that can be useful in high stress situations. im not saying you dont have to aim a shotgun at close range, but neutralizing a threat can be easier with with buckshot (defense loads) than with a single slug from a pistol or rifle. in my opinion there is no "noob" weapon. when they are all used properly, each individual weapon serves a specific purpose. cheap tactics is what makes a bad player in my eyes. someone who uses a high capacity weapon (P90, Light Machine Gun) while sitting in one spot picking off players who are trying to have fun and play "right" just ruins the expirience for everyone else. and in my expirience these "campers" are the ones who cry like babies when THEY get dead at the hands of a P90 or shotgun. but thats just my opinion.--[[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] 17:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I don't particularly think ''any'' tactic is cheap (nor any weapon a "noob" weapon), no matter how "unfair" an advantage one thinks it gives. Some tactics are just simply more successful than others. The fact is that MW2 is a '''war''' game, and so goes the old saying ''all's fair in love and war''. If a machine gun camper kills me, so what? I'll just respawn and continue with the game. But that's the point, it's a ''game''. Some people take games way too seriously. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:For me, my response to ppl calling others and me campers or sniper whore, noob tuber. I just reply "It's a legitimate strategy". Don't get mad, get EVEN. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:50, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Totally agree. I mean, I could possibly be wrong, but isn't "camping" essentially what snipers and machine gunners ''actually do'' in real life? I know it was last time I checked... And I sure as heck wouldn't want an M40A5 to clear a room with. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:07, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RIOT SHIELD ==<br />
<br />
Just played the game and i have to admit the riot shield is the most fun weapon to use in multi-player. Bashing enemies to death is extremely gratifying. - JanG<br />
<br />
<br />
i love when people use it, theyre easier to kill. Especially with the knife. If you are anywhere but directly in front of them they cant block it.<br />
<br />
-k9870<br />
<br />
That, sticky grenades, and powerful caliber fmj weapons are the only thing that can break through the shield - JanG<br />
<br />
:A WELL AIMED grenade from an M203 would take a guy with a shield out[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Unless the guy has a Blast Shield (explosive resistant face mask) equipped, he won't die unless it's a direct impact from a 40mm. He'll even survive sticky grenades on his shield. I've survived plenty with a Blast Shield on when I've got a Riot Shield. Half the time though, after a hit with a 40mm I'm near death anyway even with a Blast Shield on and usually the guy still has a second shot [[Draco122|Draco122]] 17:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Hitting the shield with a 40mm won't kill the guy, the trick is to hit just behind or under him, launching his ass into the air. also FMJs work well, as do Semtex grenades. I myself use Marathon, Lightweight and Commando with my Riot Shield, as well as blast shield and an AA-12 for sticky situations. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Semi Auto only FAL==<br />
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:39, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The only Thing I could think to defend it is in The Falklands War both the UK and Argentina used the FAL. Which the UK used their L1A1 in single fire only, the Argentinian Army had theirs on Automatic, which Military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun. I've never fired one, but in the game I like the controlled fire of the FAL, of it would just fire like another AK.-Km314<br />
:But it shoots way too slowly ingame to be of much use. They should have made it shoot in bursts of 2-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::From what I experienced in Multiplayer, it's powerful, it would be way to powerful if it was full auto, I think Infinity ward was going for a thing like they did in CoD4 with the G3. 1:21, 13 November 2009<br />
<br />
I think they purposely brought down single fire rate to keep people from using modded controllers too. The g3 would fire as fast as you pulled the trigger, and anyone with a modded controller had an unfair advantage. The FAL is a true single shot, mods or not. I like it.<br />
<br />
To whoever said "military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun", I believe one person on the Military Channel does not count as "military expert'''S''' <br />
Just look at this guy: he's not shooting down any planes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1q8GiSIdc<br />
<br />
If anything, the FAL with an ACOG makes a great DMR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I dunno whats with all the fuss, I love the FAL in MW2. Sure auto would have been fun, but it's hugely accurate and powerful, not to mention long ranged. A Holo sight makes it a perfect AR, and an ACOG pretty much makes it competition for the EBR. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
But I think I wish it's like in Rainbow Six where you can switch firing modes. The first 2 Call of Duty games did that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
:Yeah, and I sort of expected firing mode switches in MW2, but I guess not. But really, the FAL would be ridiculous on full-auto man. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Tacticool-ness ==<br />
Well, this game is awesome and all, but i hate the fact that they made it to be a HALO knock-off. Dual wielding? Glock 18s? God, this there ever going to be a game that gets Special Ops right? -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
:No, because the average person doesn't know dick about guns or the military-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 02:25, 18 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I really thought that it would be a badass fucking game, which it is, but they made it just too fucking...tacticool. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
Its what happens when they cater to mall ninjas, dual g18s, dual deegs, dual sawn offs.... and the plot made no sense. Price launching a nuke, sheperd going bad, i love how the start of the game has sheperd just standing there without body armor in a war zone where the loliest terrorist could pick him off.... k9870[[User:K9870|K9870]]<br />
<br />
: Wouldn't you find a guy who uses .44 magnum in a modern war to be very cocky and arrogant? -[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]]<br />
::True, but some Generals do carry Colt 1911A1s and the such. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:No, anyone who can get a M1911 Authorized carries one-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 20:35, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
But most generals of today, especially a Lieutenant General would NOT be standing out on the front lines or strongly recommended not to. What is a Lt. General doing in Afghanistan anyway? The game also took out a lot of the old guns in the previous MW game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:38, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Not to mention they chose what's essentially a wallhanger sniper rifle (WA2000) over a number of battle-proven designs (M24, M110, even the L96A1 that Counter-Strike players seem to be so in love with). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:15, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would rather use my Winchester 88, shooting Hornady Custom .308's, over any of those rifles-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree that the WA2000 was a Stupid choice. That rifles has custom wood stocks and high quality handbuilt precision, and isn't meant for combat use. The only non magnum or anti-material sniper is the M21 EBR, which has a wrongly animated 20-round mag that only holds ten rounds. They dropped the M40, R700 and Dragunov, and gave beginners the Barrett .50 cal. I'm not the best sniper, but I wouldn't have minded a nice bolt action rifle thats not chambered in a massive round. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::No, Dragunov is still in the game. As far as dropping the M40, it would seem logical to do so considering there are no US Marines in MW2. And having the R700 as a separate weapon than the M40 was just pointless, IMO. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::The Dragunov being in single player doesn't count. Why build it into the game and not add it to multiplayer? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Glock 18 with red dot ==<br />
Hey if anybody plans to use a G18 with a red dot sight without a silencer I just wanted to tell you that using a G18 in this configuration is a bad idea, the muzzle flash of the gun on full-auto is so large that it actually blocks the view of the dot so much that you can barely see the dot<br />
:Glock 18s were already a bad move. and put three ~ at the end of your text to show your name. like so: -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
::I have to agree, without the silencer used the G18s muzzle flash ruins your sight picture, not to mention it has zero range and horrid accuracy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
Ok thanks for telling me how to put my name on a page, and the G18 is an ok gun, I mean the gun tisn't that accurate when you do a full clip 33 round burst, but it is a good close quarters gun because you can hose down an enemy in about two seconds, and I sometimes use it to pin down other players because they think that I am using an MG and when the gun runs out of ammo and they jump out of cover I spray them with a real MG. [[User:Korean war marine]]<br />
<br />
I use it for close quarters only, with usually a UMP or Vector to back it up in case I need some accuracy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
Glock 18s don't use clips, they use magazines. And I agree with Winchester and M14fanboy, Glock 18 (along with Desert Eagle and Magnum revolver) was a bad choice. Heck, I'd take a Mark 23 over any of them in a combat op any day. They should put in actual ''combat pistols'', not mall ninja favorites. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:They also removed the 1911 from multiplayer. That is just bull shit. I was hoping for a P226 or something from SIG since we got so many British characters or Browning Hi-powers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:30, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I had Hi-Power hopes as well, or possible the 226. But a Colt Anaconda and Desert Eagle, I thought this was military, not ghetto. The only good handguns really are the USP and the M93R, which is like a mini-M16. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
:::I've said this before and I'll say it again that this is a ''war'' game, so they should have dropped the Desert Eagle, Anaconda, and Glock 18 for actual ''combat pistols'' like the aforementioned Hi-Power, 226, and 1911. Heck, I even had hopes that that new Russian service pistol (MR-446 Grach, I think it's called) would make an appearance, but my hopes were all for naught. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I know man, it's dperessing to see a WAR game with nothing but stupid magnum handguns firing ridicilously large rounds. Theres a total of two legit combat pistols, the USP and M9, and while I haven't used the USP I can say the M9 is shite. DLC pistols pl0x! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
== Is it just me ==<br />
<br />
or does infinity ward think all firearms in the near future will have a bunch of Picatinny rails on them?<br />
<br />
:They just watch too many movies. But then again a lot of issued guns now do have rails. That's how the Marines Corp get their M4s and M16A4s now [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::All firearms in the near future (aside from oddballs like the XM8) ''will'' have Picatinny rails. Modularity is the wave of the future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ACOG "off" after EMP among other things. ==<br />
<br />
Ok, I get the fact that all electronics that were turned on would have been knocked out after the EMP struck, but...when I picked up a rifle with an ACOG, the lights were out, leaving only a black reticule, which is bullshit because ACOGs don't work like that. They are not battery powered and as such would not be affected by the EMP. I also find it hard to believe that none of the soldiers had flashlights that were most likely turned off during EMP. Another nit-pick is that your weapon after the EMP was an M4 with an EOtech mounted on it. Why couldn't the creators have your character just flip up the iron sights? You had to pick up an entirely different M4, also coincidentally like yours with an M203, with iron sights up for that kinda of thing. <br />
<br />
This is one of the many minor lazy details they could have done. Like for the ACR. I know for a FACT that the ACR's bolt release switch is in front of the trigger. It was designed so when you insert a fresh mag, all you have to do is press forward on the release right in front of the trigger! But instead, if you are empty, you insert new mag and then with your FIRING HAND, take it off the pistol grip and pull the charging handle back! One, no soldier would is RIGHT handed would taken their trigger hand off the grip unless they need it to fix a malfunction. They would use their NON firing hand to pull the charging handle since the charging handle and in fact the entire RIFLE was built for both hands to operate. But no, IW wanted us to waste precious seconds to see the wrong hand pull the charging handle. I got shot so many times using the ACR when I am empty completely because I can't just press the bolt catch with my trigger finger as the gun was DESIGNED to! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
To add more fuel to the rant fire, the Glock 18 is an ok gun, I'll admit that in small bursts. But when you reload, you don't press the slide release, which would make getting back into action faster, but instead you're treated to your character pulling the slide back! This is only good for range shooting a Glock, since the slide release is pretty weak, factory wise, but in combat, pulling back the slide takes too much time, in fact, there's a couple seconds delay when reloading an empty Glock. That's why I try to not reload empty weapons. Always mid magazine change. It'll save fustraions for you watching your character take his damn time reloading and doing unneeded things like pulling the slide back or in the ACR's case, use right hand instead of left hand instead of pressing trigger finger forward. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
And even MORE nitpicking. Look at how they attached the M203 on a Tavor in the game! I've seen what an M203 with a Tavor looks like in real life and it works ergonomicially but the way IW did it in this game makes it look stupid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
its a game and just about every gamer you come across wont know about weapons like i have been telling people about the screw ups and they said if they did not give it a name they would have just called the m93r a machine pistol and most people i know call assault rifles machine guns. -scarecrow<br />
<br />
yeah I too noticed on the ACR how they made the unnecessary action of charging it and all that when, like they did with the SCAR and M4, they could just push bolt release, which would probably decrease reload time in the game. but hey, maybe the did it cause it would "look cool" - Whatsagun<br />
<br />
:Well at least for the M4 and SCAR, they are slapping the bolt release on the side of the gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Seriously, no one else noticed how the M4 was modeled on Semi?-protoAuthor 03:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The M203 in this game is based on an RIS-mounted airsoft replica. [http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/wp-content/uploads/2007/NewshotsofCASCARM203fromVisele_1022A/DSC021252.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:31, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Back to the mocked up Glock 18, I think all videos on youtube never show full auto Glock's reloading. Just one magazine and "The End". But there was this one video on youtube called 298 rounds in full auto and it showed this guy with a mocked up Glock 18 not using the slide release lever, just pulling back the slide. With this video close to 5,000,000 views it's quite obvious IW got there ideas from that video.<br />
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI Glock 298 rounds in full auto]<br />
<br />
:In response to that, I keep saying that most people target shooting with a lot of their guns would pull back the slide instead of pressing the slide release because every time they press down on it, it degrades it more and more. In a combat situation, you shouldn't be thinking about that if you are rushing to reload. If you are on the range, pissing bullets, then you do the pull slide back. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I wanna nitpick on the gun selection in this game. I'm sure they did this to expand the number of guns used, but some of their choices just kinda irk me. For instance, why does the Russian military use FAMAS, Tavor TAR-21, MG4, UMP, TDI Vectors, PP2000, AUG, AK's and RPD's? Seriously, TAR-21's? Israel doesn't even really like Russia right now, considering that they're selling weapons to people who want to destroy them.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well the AKs, RPD and PP2000 are obviously Russian weapons, but I hate that they didn't give them AK-74 type weapons, but all 47s instead. The Russian military doesn't use AK-47s anymore. They've switched to the smaller rounds. They also had the Russians during the Wolverine mission with FALs. IW obviously didn't know a thing about Russian military of today and didn't want to just give them all AKs, so they slapped them with a bunch of other guns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Wait a minute, aren't russians in the Wolverines mission ultranationalists? Because if they are the terrorist ones then they can have any gun they want.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:No they're the russian army. I'm guessing that you haven't played the game (spoiler) as it is the russian army paratroopers invading the east coast of the U.S. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC))<br />
<br />
I think the Ultra nationalist won the civil war in Russia. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TMP or MP9? ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Just wondering about the labeling on the MW2 page. The game calls it a "TMP", but on the MW2 page it's labeled as an MP9. Since they look the same, why bother calling it the MP9 when it is in fact the TMP? -KLR<br />
<br />
:Because the MP9 is the newer version of the TMP. I do believe Bruger and Thomet took over production from Steyr, who no longer makes it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
::Isn't the side-folding stock unique to the MP9? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:32, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Yeah, I think that was a part of the update too. Either way, unless those are old TMPs, the MP9 is the logical choice for the game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
::::Update? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::The update Bruger and Thomet made when they took over building TMPs. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
==Walther WA 2000 screenshot==<br />
Did someone have fun or is this an unedited screenshot from the game? If you look at the scope you can see an unhappy sick face painted on the scope cover. I have yet to use this gun, so I don't know. My money is on someone having fun. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
No, it's really like that in the game, the only people having fun there was Infinity Ward :D [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]]<br />
<br />
:Thats the emblem used for a certain class of accolades, and a comedic effect as well. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
<br />
stop lieing to the guy. yes it does have a sick face painted on the cover its more noticeable on the WA2000 theres one on the barrett M102(idk the spelling or the number) aswell but its hard to see. theres none on the intervention or the M21 EBR. - Scarecrow<br />
<br />
==L86A1 LSW drum magazine==<br />
<br />
It is impossible in real life to fire and handle an L85A1 LSW with a 100 round drum magazine? --[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 15:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Impossible? No. Incredibly uncomfortable, awkward, and impractical? Yes.--[[Special:Contributions/141.165.142.102|141.165.142.102]] 16:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Unless you're left-handed or have ''really long arms''... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Also the drum in the game model doesn't make sense. That's surely not big enough tohold 100 rounds, looks more like 50 to me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]<br />
:If you shot it left handed, the charging handle would break your jaw-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I didn't know the L85/86 had a reciprocating charging handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
::: Either way you'd still get a face full of hot brass firing left handed. Which may probve to be a problem if I decide to enlist... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PC or console? ==<br />
<br />
So who has the PC and who has the Console version? Fact is that there is absolutely no difference between the two. In fact the PC is pretty much a direct port from the console version. I don't have any consoles, so I go for PC. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:48, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
this has nothing to do with the firearms of the game. please leave until you can think of something relevant.<br />
<br />
== SCAR H is really a SCAR L ==<br />
<br />
I think that the SCAR that is in the game is actually chambered in 5.56. I say this because it holds 30 rounds and after the helicopter is shot down in DC you are given a mag for an M4 from Sgt. Foley who has a SCAR. I think they had the SCAR replacing the M16 as the main battle rifle of the U.S. Military with the M16A4 being used for the reserve troops. They probably used the SCAR H model to make it look cooler. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The SCAR in the game isn't chambered in anything because it is a video game. Also if I am not mistaken IMFDB policy in regards to videogames is to identify guns purely by looks, not by any specifications. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
No its the Mk. 17 as evidenced by the larger flash suppressor. Infinity Ward probably created a 30 round mag to keep it more like an assault rifle than the battle rifle it is. Also the soldier who gives you the M4 dies and the clip could be from him. <br />
Here's a picture of the flash suppressor to show it's an Mk.17--[[User:Km314|Km314]] 06:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC) <br />
[[http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/c/c0/SCAR-H_Lv8_II.png]]<br />
:''Magazine'', not clip. And I thought there had been a 30 round magazine introduced for use with the M14 rifle a few years ago? Last I heard, the Mark 17 still used M14 mags. And, while this may not be the best of arguments here, the Mark 17 in-game has heavier recoil than either the M16 or M4 and generally seems more effective at longer ranges than the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
It only has the 30 round magazine in single player, incorrectly, but in multiplayer, it has the 20 round. A lot of the weapons in multiplayer is correct but still, IW did miss a few things, like the rear iron sight for the SCAR is supposed to fold down towards the user, not away. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Regarding the rear sight... someone on IW's forum actually pointed that out to them sometime prior to the game's release, but they didn't do anything. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Is it an M9, 92FS or 92SB? ==<br />
<br />
I'm confused. We have the title of the handgun called an SB, then a photo of a 92FS and then in the description, it's called an M9. Which one is it? Isn't the game trying to portray an M9 since it's military use? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
<br />
it should be cleened up. well im guessing a 92FS is the civil version of the M9 (what its suposed to be)<br />
but its a 92SB because of the rounded trigger guard. -scarecrow<br />
<br />
== Combat Knife ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone identify the combat knife used in the final level? I know I've seen it before, I just don't know where. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:05, 11 December 2009 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_2&diff=199570Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 22009-11-02T19:18:12Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Unfocused */</p>
<hr />
<div>Note: This talk page is for discussion related to the '''article'''. Do not use it to argue about how H&K pwnz Colt, it is safe to say nobody cares.<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Who saw this video, 92, FS or SB? ==<br />
The video with the Beretta M9, Ive not seen, Is it a 92 FS or SB?, i mean this isn't my site but still putting M9 just make's it as noobs are running the place, lol sorry, so who has the link to the video?<br />
*It is impossible to understand it from video. The only place this pistol appears is shown on the screenshot, the trigger guard is not seen, so i decided to discribe it as military modification, M9. I don't think, that it is a big problem for you to write what is this pistol realy is, whan we will have a better view.<br />
<br />
Didn't mean to offended you, it's just most people come to this site to get correct info on weapons, but i suppose putting M9 isn't that bad considering that its the correct name, i just feel its lack of info.<br />
<br />
== Airsoft ==<br />
I like airsoft as much as the next guy, but we already have pictures of ''real'' M4A1s and MP5Ks on the site, so no need to replace them with pics of airsoft replicas. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, but the "real" M4A1s and MP5Ks in the game don't look like those pictures; for the sake of identification, wouldn't it just be simpler to use images that at least look like the weapons from the game, whether they're real or not? Besides, there are plenty of other pages that use airsoft images, so why should this one be an exception?<br />
:Biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of. As you can see on the [[M16 rifle series|M16]] and [[Heckler & Koch MP5|MP5]] pages, we have plenty of pictures of the real things, so no need to add airsoft replicas to the page instead. Whether or not they're equipped with a specific rail system or not is moot, since the rail systems in question are pictured beneath the weapons and the addition of them ''on'' the weapons doesn't change anything. An M4 is still an M4 and an MP5K is still an MP5K. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There has always been guns we see in movies that have been customized and don't look like the stock photos of the gun unmodded. It's best to have a picture of the real thing than a fake that LOOKS like the one used in the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Then shouldn't all the other airsoft pictures (such as the Custom 1911 seen on the MGS4 page and the Cutlass on the Black Lagoon page, and even the Springfield Armory M1911 on CoD4's and MW2's page) be replaced with stock pictures? If you're gonna insist on this, you might as well go all the way.<br />
::As I've already pointed out, '''biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of'''. So those images are there '''because we don't have pics of the real things'''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
For the record, I'm in favor of pictures of the weapons modded or detailed as they are seen in the movie or game. Chances are the link takes you to the base page for them anyway, so you can see a picture of the real deal. Someone might be looking for a picture of the gun that is identical to how it is in the film or game. Whether it's airsoft or not to me seems moot as long as it is the weapon in question. Of course, no orange tips, please. -- ZG<br />
:The problem I have with all Airsoft guns is that they all scream "FAKE!" to those of us who spend alot of time around the real thing. Now as placeholders until we get a real weapon image I don't mind as it's a placeholder. Useing an airsoft gun insted of a real firearm that we have an image of that I just don't like. We do get the occational screem used weapon here and even when those have been beat to hell they are much better than the most realistic airsoft gun.--[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:48, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Planned Weapons==<br />
Where did the informatio for most of these planned weapons come from??<br />
:No idea, and no one has posted any sources, and there's no way to edit it now. Maybe if another multiplayer video shows up, someone with some authority will notice them and can remove them. I mean, really, the XM8? COD4 never had it and that came out when it was still showing up in every "realistic" FPS.--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::IMHO, the XM8 is way overused in video games today. I'm glad IW shied away from it in favor of weapons like the ACR/Masada, that actually got beyond ''prototype'' stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
the acr isnt past prototype stage<br />
:::No, it just isn't widely available yet, but it ''is'' beyond prototype stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:53, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The ACR is actually being produced by both Bushmaster and Remington. It's already being marketed and available to purchase [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1887==<br />
Is the Winchester 1887 actually confirmed for the game? If it is, you can pretty much create a T2 class with that shotgun, the thumper, juggernaut, stopping power and something else that suits Arnie:P - Madax XXI 12:28<br />
<br />
:Yup, it's in there. I'm totally gonna have a Terminator 2 online kit. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M1014 Removal?==<br />
Should we remove the section on the M1014 in this game? There hasnt been any confirmation of it appearing in game, aside from the misplaced icon.<br />
<br />
No, it has been confirmed now<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKwaOg7RYPo<br />
<br />
== Any Ideas On The .44 Magnum == <br />
I think its either a Raging bull or a colt anaconda. both look quite simmlar but im thinkin it more a colt anaconda than a raging bull reason being that the the magnum in game look as if it has smaller vents were as the raging bull as quite thick vents. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
On the Call of Duty wikipedia website it said it was a colt anaconda<br />
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Link plz? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Found a video on youtube where they switch classes revealing a .44 magnum on 0:16 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk]<br />
<br />
==Clean Up Page==<br />
I cleaned up the main page, but i can change it back if any one want's. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I noticed that FourZeroTwo has a gun on his back before getting knifed, that you missed. It appears to be a PP-2000, please correct me if I'm wrong<br />
<br />
http://www.modernwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pp-2000<br />
<br />
You could be right, but Ive got a hunch it could be a MP7, which seems more likely. But from what we can see its hard to tell. (thx also :)<br />
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No problem, I just love MW and MW2 and had to point that out, but I didnt know who to talk to about it. Great site, too:) I learned loads about guns, like the difference between a Beretta and a Taurus:) - Terry 00:06<br />
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I was right about the PP-2000!:) - Terry 23:30<br />
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I was like "Sure" when i saw your above post, then i look at the pic of the PP-2000 akimbo, and was like "FUCK" cool any way m8 :)<br />
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== Bullet Types ==<br />
What is this about the Tavor being loaded with FMJ's? Is this supposed to mean that along with choosing weapon attachments, we also get to choose bullet types? - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
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A bit too confusing now lol, I'm thinking it will just be a perk, because if im right fmj's give higher velocities, but i couldn't see how this would affect the game, in cod 4 all bullets moved at the same speeds?<br />
<br />
Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?<br />
<br />
What i understand is that FMJ are solid bullets and the only bullets "allowed" in warfare from the Hague Conventions.<br />
<br />
True, but but a "Black" operation such as this would hardly be concerned with the rules of "conventional warfare." =P<br />
<br />
The Theory behind JHP (Jacketed Hollow Points) is that upon impact of the target the nose of the bullet mushrooms to a much larger size the then original diameter(caliber) of the bullet causing a larger wound channel and more "stopping power"<br />
<br />
The downside to this is that since JHP expand during impact the force of the bullet is dispersed over a larger area on the target making these bullets less likely to pierce body armor, also some HP bullets give certain firearms trouble when cycling this ammo. my 1911 for instance... =)<br />
<br />
Your 1911's feeding of hollow point has to do with the type of 1911 usually. Different kinds of feeding ramps I'm told. My series 70 Gold cup has the same problem but my Springfield TRP feeds just fine.<br />
FMJ's moving at Higher velocities has to do with air drag, hollow points would create more of it. As others have said hope this helps, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong.<br />
<br />
But basically all bullets work well for their intended applications. its just that in this day and age there are so many options for a person to use its just matching the bullet to the task. Hunting, Target, Match, Self-defense, Low recoil or "Cowboy" Loads, Plinking. Its endless. -Furious Oyster (feel free to expand or remove if incorrect or unnecessary, just trying to help)<br />
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well... I didn't exactly want a bullet discussion, i was just wondering how this would affect the game, like if infinity ward would make it horrible and make stuff like hollow points do something like 4 times damage but only go as far as a "Call of Duty Shotgun". - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
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"Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?"- I just read alot on firearms :P but i remember coming across it?<br />
<br />
As far as i know there is an international convention that bans the use of hollow point bullets and other expanding bullets for millitary purposes.<br />
<br />
== Extended Magazines Attachments ==<br />
Thought it was pretty cool, but will it be like a drum mag or something like bandolier, what ever it is i hope it applies to assault rifles.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Ump45em.jpg|400px]]<br />
<br />
:Could be a dual mag clip, so you can reload faster. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 00:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: Magazine dammit!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:11, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
He said a clip that holds two magazines together for a speedier reload - Mythekal<br />
:::Huh. i never heard of that before. Good point, Mythekal.<br />
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Lol its still a mag Mythekal!<br />
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its usually just a metal or plastic part that latches to both mags allowing you to just pull out the used one move it to the left and reinsert the fresh mag... Some times its just a piece of tape. Google AR-15 mag couplers or something. -Furious Oyster (Sorry miss read it)<br />
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I knew what a dual mag clip is, i was merely trying to explain it to who ever thought that M14Fan said "Clip" instead of Magazine. And here is a picture to avoid further confusion. -[[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]<br />
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[[Image:Dual_Mag_clamp.jpg|200px]]<br />
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There better be an attachment like this for the AA-12, cause its gonna get really annoying reloading that lousy 8-shot magazine every five seconds after unloading on someone lol-ArmoredMason619<br />
==Barret .50== <br />
<br />
At the end of the Flag Runner video FourZeroTwo has a Barret M82. May not be, but it looks like one and sounds like one, it's a little blurry so i wasn't sure? -Final Tsurugi<br />
<br />
It looks like a Barrett XM500 - Mythekal<br />
<br />
How did i not notice that, actually might be a Barrett M99? - Final Tsurugi<br />
<br />
:Or it could be the M107, the updated M82. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It wasnt the M99 because it was firing semi-automatically, and from the angle, the magazine was not visible, so i assume it was a bullpup - Mythekal<br />
<br />
It is a Barret M82/M107, if you pause the video at the right moment you can see the magazine in front of the grip, i actually got excited to think we might have a bull-pup sniper in Modern Warfare 2 :P -Final Tsurugi<br />
<br />
== Brazillian Militia? ==<br />
<br />
They better make the main character waste the militia alongside the Brazilian Army or the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOPE/ BOPE] or i am not buying it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I actually like that causal outfit the militia wear :)<br />
::Me too. I never seen a brazilian wear a 1980s Miami Vice style flower shirt, but i do like how they have militia wearing Brazilian football team shirts. Makes it more realistic. I like the flower shirts though. They are cheesy as hell. It fits the game. Also, Please sign your posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah Miami vice ftw :) --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Guns from the new teaser==<br />
This SMG looks like a [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]].<br />
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|300px|[[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]]]]<br />
[[Image:MW2teastrail1.png|thumb|none|400px|I thought it was a MP5K but if we look closer, it doesn't seem to be one.]]<br />
:It could be a K with the forward grip removed? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
looks like an MP5 with a tactical end-cap, kinda like the end cap on the MP5K. no idea why there's a 15 round magazine though<br />
[[Image:MW2teastrail2.png|thumb|none|400px|And this one looks like a UMP but the the silhouette isn't exactly the same (maybe the model of the game was not loaded enough).]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It definitely resembles a UMP, it probably has rails on the handguard, as well as the front sight removed, as they did in the last game ~[[user:Revolver|Revolver]]<br />
<br />
The one in the first picture is I think a Special Weapons MP-10. Check it out at the bottom of the mp5 page.<br />
::The forearm doesn't look as large as the MP-10 though... everything else looks like a MP-10 indeed.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
The two guns look similar minus the stock and clip. I could be wrong but I'm sure that if it isn't a special weapons mp-10 then it is an UMP.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
:Magazine goddamit![[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
What's wrong with saying clip? It means the same thing.<br />
:.. Uh, no. It's not. A 'clip' is the device that loads a magazine. You either use it to load your detachable magazines, or you carry the clips to load the fixed magazine in your rifle (on old rifles). You don't carry 'clips' around any more. They're two different things. It's like saying rim and tyre mean the same thing. --[[User:Joffeloff|Joffeloff]] 12:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
I've never heard that before. I can see where clip comes from stripper clip that they used in rifles. Everyone around me says clip and mag is interchangeable but people use mag more often. If it really bothers you that much then I'll just say mag then.<br />
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Special Weapons MP-10 9x19mm]]<br />
The second one looks like an UMP. I'm pretty sure we're dealing with two guns here.<br />
::Yeah but there is no rear sight on the one in the screenshot, and it's disturbing me... maybe they took it away because of the Red Dot on it.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
Actually if you look closely that kinda square shape towards the back of the gun is the iron sight so it's pretty much an UMP with what looks like an ACOG. If you're talking about the front sight for the UMP which does appear to be missing, remember that they removed the front sights from the M4/M16 when you attach a sight even though that's not standard.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
[[Image:UMP 45.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch UMP .45 ACP]]<br />
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
I've got a clearer shot of the weapon thanks to a friend :)<br />
[[Image:MW2MP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok I guess it's not an MP-10 but a dressed up MP-5. They did it to the AK I suppose they are going to do it to the MP-5?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Guys on CoD Wikia found an interesting thing about this gun and I pretty agree: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Modern_Warfare_2#Sub_Machine_Guns <br/>They say it's a MP5K with a R.I.S system. Since they've put one for the M4, I guess that's possible.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It has to be a MP5k with a rail. The short magazine,no stock, and small flashider make it the only possible variant.<br />
<br />
==what AK is this?==<br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=2&newsid=20387 <br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=4&newsid=20387<br />
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=5&newsid=20387<br />
<br />
In the first image I can see that it has a waffle magazine. In the second image I can see that a muzzle brake is present, and in the last image I can see what appears to be a Tapco Intrafuse AK-47 Handguard. So what is it? Oh and it appears to have a synthetic stock. [[Special:Contributions/72.133.253.21|72.133.253.21]] 21:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guns from the trailer ==<br />
[[Image:MW2brazil.png|thumb|none|400px|FN FAL or Imbel MD-3 (brazilian variant of the FAL)?]]<br />
I hope it's an FAL. You barely ever see them in video games-S&Wshooter<br />
:Could be a variant of the KTR-03S - an AK custom build [http://www.krebscustom.com/RawPhotos/6-28-04/KTR-03SFinal.jpg]. - MCain (UTC)<br />
:Me too. I love fals. And the gun above looks like a IMBEL MD2. Heres the wikipedia article: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMBEL_MD2]. Note how it has a STANAG Magazine like the MD2.I also love how ridiculous looking the Brazilian gang members are.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::rather MD-3 isn't it? Since it hasn't a foldable stock.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah without the folding stock it is a MD3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::However, the gun's long barrel looks more like a FAL... ahh sh*t! This fuc*ing game is driving me mad, every guns don't look exactly the same as their originals^^--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I think there are Imbel MD2s or MD3s with the regular barrel.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Ok, there are no Imbel MD3s with regular barrels. It's most likely a design error by the developters.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
(comment: It better be a FAL. I'm getting tired of M4's, M16's, AK's and G36's. I want to be able to use a gun ingame that in't too small for me in real life.-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]])<br />
:I agree. the game better have G3s and IMI galils. I also love the fact that is a Brazilian made Fal. You don't see those in movies.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I also want a MG3 or some kind of big, dumb machine gun chambered to 7.62x51mm NATO. Machine guns chambered to 7.62 tear shit up.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Hell yeah man! Thats exactly what I'm saying. I would also like to see some more bolt action jobs that aren't crappy( DSR-1, Enfield Enforcer, Steyr SSG) in video games- [[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::''This would probably be the IMBEL MD-2 (folding stock) or MD-3 (fixed stock) which is manufactured locally in Brazil. The weapons are based, pretty much, on the FAL with the exception that they fire a 5.56 round'' [[User:Charon68|Charon68]]<br />
:::And are fed from STANAG Magazines and have different handguards.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I'm tired of .223 guns. I would like to see a FAL, M14 or G3 that isn't emasculated (made innacurate, weak or make ammo for it scarce)-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]]<br />
::I want a M14 that is not tricked out with rails like the one in Call of Duty 4. I want a M14 like the one below:<br />
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A real M14.]]<br />
I do like the Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR rifle though. I also want A M16A4 that doesn't fire on Full Auto and a AK-74. AK-74s don't get enough love.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::CoD 7 will be about Vietnam War according to rumours, maybe they'll put in one.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 19:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And smaller conflicts in africa. I hope they also put atleast one level that takes place in the portuguese colonial war.<br />
[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:29, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Now i think the FAL above may be a FN FAL with rails on the handguards and a 30 round magazine but i think it's too curved and big to be 7.62x51mm NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
im taking a guess that the FAL looking rifle is a DSA SA58 OSW. im probably wrong, but thats my two cents<br />
:Way too big to be an SA58. The SA58 is a Carbine. The one in the upper picture is an Assault Rifle. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:02, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
[[Image:MW2smg.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*A Kriss Super V?<br />
Cool. The pistol is a Desert Eagle, by the way.-protoAuthor<br />
:I think the pistol is a Jericho 941 since it's too small to be a desert eagle.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::No, it's an Eagle. Check out the ejection port.<br />
:::''I concur. It's not terribly visible, but there's that familiar slide mounted safety in both shots. It appears to be a totally game-created custom finish though - the barrel and the underlying section of the frame (where the gas pistons are housed) look to be blued and the grips and the rest of the frame looks silver. On a couple of related notes, wow at the graphics - I took these for pictures of the developers testing out their guns at first - and wow at the handling of the Desert Eagle by this guy. Usually in these games, you see handguns being handled only somewhat compentently at best. This guy looks like he sleeps with the damn thing.'' ---[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 02:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Also, take note of the sound it makes when it fires. Exact same sound as the Desert Eagle in CoD4.<br />
:::::Besides, the game is still going through production and the weapon models will be touched up. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The machine gun ==<br />
I think the machine gun that the russian terrorists are using is a M240.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think it's a M249 SAW, the M240 (GP Machine gun) is bigger.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Could it possibly be a Mk. 46?<br />
:Makes sense since most of the guns are special forces guns.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well the M240B has been added just look at the new multiplayer trailer. IGN rewind theater confirms it too. could someone add it on the main article? -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
==New AK==<br />
[[Image:AKMW2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
I think its just an amped up AK-47. It has an AR-15 stock, waffle magazine, and has a synthetic handguard.<br />
Found a similar image:<br />
[[Image:Ak-47-weapon-accessories-desert-colourb.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 22:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Good god, look what they did to that AK! That's just horrible. I hope the AK in the game isn't like that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:37, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I watched the trailer again. I am sure that i saw a AK with a AK-74 style flash hider.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe a AK-101 since NATO forces use 5.56mm.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think it could be a AK-74M or just a AK-74 since the russian army might make a apparence and they need to arm the russian soldiers.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I said "NATO forces"--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC) because the one having it in the screenshot is Soap... well, maybe or surely, he captured because he had a M14 at the beginning.<br />
::Well...the game's plot is a about a Uber badass special forces unit that works alone and is headed by our buddy Soap up there. So, i guess the badass special forces unit is not part of NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:35, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Neither AK-101 or AK-74, the magazine in the image holds 7.62x39mm. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 00:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Maybe theres the tricked out AK up there and the AK-74 style AK.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well, seems like we won't know until we'll have a level walkthrough with the name of the weapon in it...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I saw the Gameplay videos and i saw two different AKs. One with a AKM style muzzle brake and another one with a AK-74 style flash hider. Maybe we can build guns from the ground up? like, you can have a AK-47 with a kobra sight, snow camo, fires 7.62x39mm and has a AK-74 flash hider?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
*It's gotta be an AKM.<br />
::Why the it would be an AKM? It looks like an AK-74M or one of the AK-100 series.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Well it has ribbing on the top of the reciever, like the AKM, but the indentation I cannot clearly see. It could be like in Farcry 2, where it has the Ak-47 receiver with some AKM parts, and I used AKM because the 100 series are developments on the AKM, understand? So AK-47 is incorrect.<br />
::::But the AK-10X series were developments on the AK-74M. Also, sign you posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well technically the modernizations start with the AKM, I see it as the break off point of the AK series. Ak-74 was designed from the AKM, and so on and so on, but that doesn't matter, yeah it could be the 100 series, but my point is its not an AK-47. Also lacks the flash hiders of the 74 and 100s. But I think it's a frankenAK-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]<br />
::I think the AK-74 flashider can be seen when in first person. Like how in the first Modern Warfare, The first person model of the M4 had an grip on the handguard but the world model didn't have a grip. I also think it's an frankengun or it may be an AK that the player can build. Like in hitman: Blood Money.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I don't think so on the 74, but I think we can agree in the meantime it is not an AK-47 so we should change the heading accordingly, evidence shows it is a modernized variant so we could say a Kalashnikov in the heading and have notations that it is a modernized variant.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]<br />
<br />
It looks like it has the AK-47 variant front sight on it.<br />
<br />
== Unrealeted ==<br />
Ok, i know this has nothing to do with the game or releted to guns but, i was reading the Modern Warfare 2 thread on the Something Awful forums and they were calling the Brazilian gangters africans. What the ? and they seen to think the scenes in Rio De Janeiro are set in Africa. What the mother ? it offends me that people are dumb enough to ignore the line "he's got a contact in rio" and Christ the Redeemer and the huge mountains with favelas full of illiterate drug dealers and the Brazilian made Imbel MD-3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What do you expect? It's Something Awful!<br />
<br />
To be fair all the favela gangsters that are seen so far are Afro-Brazilians, even if there are plenty of gang members of all races in real life. With so many games having levels in destroyed urban areas in Africa it's not surprising that some people would get a Black Hawk Down style vibe from the pictures.<br />
<br />
Personally I hate something Awful as they break their own rules on posting. One member has a post on there with my first and last names and it's a bloody poison pen hitpeice. I asked the frigging syop to remove the shit and he laughed at me. Personally I find the site the home of a bunch of elitist idiots who have at least one member dumb enough to set the fuel line for a weilding torch on fire.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 19:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, i like something awful but you have to be really dumb not to see the Christ the redeemer.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Hopes For New Game==<br />
<br />
Want a little realism and some weapons like standard battle rifles not all trick out with rails. Hoping russians have ak-74s and makarovs or that new 9x19 pistol they developed, not ak47s. Militias and gangs should have a mix of guns, not all berettas and 1911s. A makarov, cz-75, hk or two, glock, model 19 smiths.....just variety.<br />
<br />
What the fick is an "akarov"? Lol-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Makarov, a 9x18mm pistol that has been issued in several variants to the russian military. Come on, seriously, sticky keys some things are mspelled.<br />
<br />
I knew that. I was just kidding-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think the brazilians should use taurus and stoeger guns too, that would be realistic. And the militia should have some sxs coach guns and taurus revolvers, you know, the non tatcticla stuff. And psitols should be portrayed as hard to shoot, not coming back exactly on target after each round and it should wobble a bit while aiming.<br />
:The Brazilian gangsters are using tricked out guns with rails. At least the IMBEL MD-3 up there has a Eotech reflex sight and what looks like rails on the handguards but they could be the regular MD-3 hand guard. We know the AKs are going to be tricked out as like the image above but i think i saw a AK-74 that was not tricked out. I hope they have a AK-74.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
My major hope for the game is a surpressed sniper rifle available on multiplayer not single. The first Modern Warfare was a great stealth game with all the "Surpressors", and "Ghillie Suits" but really was a "Greek Tragedy" on multiplayer. I could understand that your average military trained sniper has a spotter and a shooter and are trained to be the world's top 10 patient people in the world but can't put the patience into a live game with real people in a seven minute match. Aside from history why couldn't the writers just put a M21 with a surpressor on in multiplayer like in the missions "Blackout" and "All Ghillied Up"? For the new guys to COD4 on the M21 attachments there are only two attachments "No Attachment" has a standard scope, the ACOG attachment has a ACOG scope and is missing a surpressor as a third attachment. If you understand how to customize your attachments you wouldn't be so confused but since the "No Attachment" feature has a standard scope why not have the surpressor and scope. It just doesn't make sense why you would have the same setup in the campaign but not in multiplayer. We can all understand why you can't have more than one attachment on any other weapons but why not add a surpressor on a sniper that has "No Attachment" for it's standard scope? I am probably to late to send this message to Infinity Awards but I spent 20 minutes on it so I might get lucky if they read it and a miracle if they change it. I'm just sharing my hopes so try not to delete it.<br />
<br />
I hope they get more shotguns in and make them a tiny bit better.m3,870,m1300,m950,etc. Two shotguns that go 5 feet suck, especially when pistols can go as far as sniper rifles.<br />
<br />
* If they added compensators to the attachments for handguns would be cool. It sucks that there's only one attachment for pistols in MW1, and the D-Eagle hasnt got anything that can be put on it, and that sucks even more. Maybe different calibers for the D-Eagles could be used too, but that might be going too far. And I hope theres an SG552 in there aswell, I love that gun so much. And if they added firing selection to the game, you could switch the SPAS from pump to semi auto, which would also be cool, and a touch more realistic.<br />
<br />
:More Desert Eagle is the ''last'' thing this game needs. Seriously, why not a SIG 226 or HK45 instead (i.e., an actual ''combat pistol'')? One thing I want for sure is a freaking fire selector for assault rifles and carbines. Like has been said on the CoD4 page, full auto or bust sucks. I prefer quick double tapping on semi-auto. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
My hopes for this game? An automatic FAMAS; leave the 3-round burst to the M16. Also, a true M14. As for everything else, well, the only thing I was worried about from the onset was the RPD, but since it's been confirmed, I'm ecstatic. And I like how they're doing the secondary weapon thing. Having a shotgun as your primary could be pretty useless sometimes...[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
-you no what, they need to make a real "modern warfare" game, like with acts going from Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, and hell Somalia, who wouldnt want to play a blackhawk down game with kick ass graphics AND guns, that is what cod7 should be and obviously with the real weaponry they had, ex- no Magpul Masada in vietnam, Sad but true, any agree with this?- Griz<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1200==<br />
<br />
We all know the 1200 is old and not used since vietnam. The 1300 is used. Would it be safe to say these are mis-named winchester 1300s? Or is it more video game nonsense?<br />
:The 1200 in this game is the same 1200 from Modern Warfare 1 so it's safe to say that the Winchester is a 1200 even though is pretty retarded to militarys still be using the 1200 today.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:52, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I seriously doubt the 1200 was ever made in this configuration.<br />
:Me too but it is a video game and video game developters are pretty retarded when it comes to guns. Still, this and COD4 have the best Gun in video game history atleast by now.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Watching over the video again on youtube and moderwarfare2.com, the weapon does look like a Winchester 1200 at first glance, yet I'm also convinced it may be a Remington 870 MCS, either in the Entry configuration or the Patrol Configuration due to the length of the barrel or it maybe the combination of the two, due to the length of the barrel with an added entry front sight. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 22:15, 11 August 2009<br />
<br />
[[Image:Rem870mcs_14.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
== Alright ==<br />
Alright you son-of-a-bitches there's a gameplay video in gametrailers. It's pretty low quality but some new guns were seen, including the gun with the heartbeat sensor and some others. Now, i don't know how to screencap trailers so someone else will have to do it.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Here they come:<br />
[[Image:MW2AR1.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
[[Image:MW2AR2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
YOU FOOL! It's "sons-of-bitches". That's a pretty awesome-looking cap, though.-protoAuthor<br />
:Thanks for the correction. I am sure Soap and Roach we using AKs with AK-74 flash hiders. Anyone have any idea what kind of AKs were those?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:20, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Oliveira, do you think you could post a link of the trailer for me, please? Thanks so much. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Which trailer?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== gameplay demo ==<br />
<br />
did anyone see the new gameplay demo for Modern Warfare 2<br />
it showed "Roach"(main protagonist) with a IMBEL MD-3 with a dot sight and a...radar<br />
im not good with gun attachments but is there really a radar attatchment?<br />
:It's a heartbeat sensor and the gun wasn't a MD-3. it looked like a fictional gun of some sort.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::some says it's a SCAR--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Makes sense since the charging handle is on the right side. But i think the SCAR charging handle is on the left side.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
-It looks like a Sig 556 variant to me - Mythekal<br />
<br />
Yeah looks like the sig556 itself thogh, not the military versions? Also, would it be safe to say the glock is a glock 18, no idea how anyone would mistake a full auto as a g22/.<br />
<br />
It could just be a fully automatic Glock 22. Gun rules dont necessarily matter to video games - Mythekal<br />
:Mythekal is right. Hell, Modern Warfare 1 had a M16A4 that fired on full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All that matters is the real weapon that the in-game version is modeled from. Call of Duty 4 had an Aks-74u modeled from an Airsoft gun - Mythekal<br />
<br />
I'm starting to think that this rifle could be a Bushmaster ACR, as it shares similar traits, except for the placement of the charging handle - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:My thoughts too. The charging handle is consistent to the ACR, but the SCAR has the same kind of charging handle. We can't see the stock and both could accept a thermold mag. So it could be either. I really doubt they make up an entire fiction rifle for the sake of it. Modern Warfare was always all about guns that are real. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Though the weird part is, the ACR has a slide release right next to the trigger, similiar to the XM8. You reload and just press forward with your trigger finger, no need to slap or pull the charging handle. The SCAR has the slide release like the AR-15 rifles, you can just slap it to release, but yet in the gameplay, you don't slap a slide release or push a slide release, you pull the charging handle back. Strange [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It could be a Magpul Masada. It is very similar to the weapon in the videos, and has a charging handle on the right side of the receiver. In the video, the stock has a hinge, indicating a folding stock, which looks almost identical to the Masada. - Mythekal<br />
<br />
The rifle also has ambidexterous charging handles - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:That sumbitch is most certainly a Masada.<br />
<br />
new gameplay vid says it's a silenced ACR with heartbeat sensor.<br />
<br />
I think it is a Magpul Masada [[User:Choi117|Choi117]]<br />
:I watched the Gameplay and i'm sure that the gun is a ACR.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
ACR is the masada. Same gun, switched manufacturer.<br />
:Sorry, i didn't know that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
But the stock is that of the Masada - Mythekal<br />
<br />
::ACR man, I know the Masada sounds cooler, but it isn't call that anymore. It's like people still calling the REC 7 a Barret M468 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:42, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or any of the M16 series of weapons a AR-15.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well if it's called AR15, you would be referring to the civilian M16 rifles. M16 is a military weapon and an AR-15 isn't. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I think the pistol is a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18C]]<br />
:Most likely since it was firing on Full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::It was pointed out that the firing rate wasn't the same speed as a real [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], but it could be that the developers couldn't quite get the slide and sound speed for a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]]. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or it could be a [[Glock]] firing on semi-automatic. [[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::That little er fires fast if its semi auto (pardon my language)<br />
:::::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18's]] did not have this color available. [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22's]] just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.<br />
<br />
==Weapons-trailers==<br />
<br />
Been seeing trailers online annoncing weapons and perks. How much cred do they have? Theres no footage to back it up, bt several announced weapons are in the screenshots. They also list the 110 SASR, L85, L85 mg version, etc.<br />
:Weapon trailers? Where the hell can i find those? They could be really useful for the article.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Youtube, theres a "weapons" one that just lists guns, and a weapons and perks thing, the perks it actually ahs proof from the original teaser.<br />
<br />
:I wouldn't trust any of those youtube bull. One said there might be an XM8 in the game. I hope it does not. That's one more step towards having all the guns Rainbow Six have. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Those videos are pure speculation. I'm sure those are all . We will only document weapons that are confirmed by the developters and seen in gameplay.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hbar? ==<br />
I don't want to offend anyone but, what the mother is a Hbar?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Its the Heavy barreled variant of the Aug meant to be a squad based machine gun - Mythekal<br />
<br />
:Hbar could also be refering to anything really. Heavy barrel anything. I've seen plenty of AR-15 variants in movies with Hbars. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6211390/?hd=1&tag=live-schedule] Sometime when the player passes over ennemies' corpses, he can take their weapons. One of them (the other is often a FA-MAS) is a AUG. There is four letter after it, a H at the beginning and I don't see well the other 3. But there is only one variant of the AUG with a "H" in its name, and that's the HBar.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Could someone upload a image of the icon in the above video? The link isn't working for me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I just watched the E3 gameplay again. The AUG HBAR pick up symbol looks amazingly like the SA80 British service rifle. Might be a place holder or something.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
:I made a note of it in the actual page. It DOES look like an SA80 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::My money's on a mislabel. We know the standard AUG is confirmed (all those screenshots) so why not the HBAR too?--[[Special:Contributions/142.162.149.33|142.162.149.33]] 17:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you pause it right before you kill the guy who carried it it's an AUG. So therefore its a mislabel. (I wish I can upload the screenshot but dun know how.)<br />
:::Sign you posts for christ's sake.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
== Correct Name ==<br />
I think we should call this game Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 instead of just [[Modern Warfare 2]] because we have a entire alphabetized series of Call Of Duty in the Video Games Category and just putting this in the "M" section does not look we even have this page. If somebody knows how to put this in the "C" section with out changing the name that will be organized.<br />
<br />
:Well that's the problem. Originally it WAS called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and some still do, but officially, the publishers decided to shorten the title for some reason. We COULD for alphabetize sake, put Call of Duty in front so it fits with the others. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And I've successfully changed the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Wait, I thought the reason that this was called Modern Warfare 2 was because Infinity Ward no longer wanted to make any more WWII related games and as such gave the "Call of Duty" moniker to Treyarch. Modern Warfare is supposedly now a separate series from Call of Duty. [[User:Markit|Markit]]<br />
:Modern Warfare is its own series now and isn't a CoD game anymore.-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 04:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Or we could make a new "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" page which bring it here.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Actually, this game is still being published by Activision that published the previous game. It is STILL apart of the Call of Duty franchise, they just chose to officially call this game just Modern Warefare 2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Keep it modern warfare 2, but link them together, like GM did linking all the dirty harry movies together.<br />
<br />
I just saw a new official cover art for the game. It says<br />
CALL OF DUTY<br />
MODERN WARFARE 2<br />
so i think we should call it call of duty modern warfare 2 -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
Thats just the boxart. Officially by the gamedevs its only called Modern warefare 2. They just slapped "call of duty" on there because a lot of people are stupid enough not to realise this IS a sequel to Call of Duty 4: modern warefare [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
== Taskforce 141 = Rainbow Six ==<br />
<br />
A multinational commando unit? The moment I read that, I immediately thought Rainbow and well we really can't complain what kinds of weapons these guys uses since they are a fictional unit like Rainbow so they can use whatever they want. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I was expecting the task forece to be from the UN. That would be cool.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::But if they say they are are UN taskforce makes the team sound kinda...pointless Like the UN does anything. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I though Rainbow Six was a UN Task Force? Anyway, a movie or televison series about a UN Uber badass task force that were formed to catch international criminals would be really cool. The problem with the UN is that they try to be neutral and being neutral doesn't do anything. The UN should be reformed to be more of a International police that works against international criminals and make international laws.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
I like the UN the way it is. What you're talking about sounds like the first step to a totalitarian society.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
:What i'm talking about is stuff like Resolution 84. I also like the UN the way it is but, they fail at quick responses to genocide such as the Rwandan Genocide in 1994.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
In general they fail at mostly any response. They just don't have the power to back up their enforcement of peace. Any peace keeping force with too much power can be oppressive. Who will keep the peace keepers in check when they're suppose to keep us in check? Quite the dilemma. I just don't think the idea of the U.N. or anything similar can work.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
:The United States shall keep the UN in check, without US, there is no UN. They need us more than we need them. It might seem like typical arrogant American mentality, but from how things are, the US has more indirect influence and handle over the entire world. We are the world's insurance policy, the self proclaimed enforcer, guardian, peacekeeping super power despite all our internal problems with crime, money and other things, but because of our population and how relatively young our nation is, the intense diversity in culture and believes keeps us in check. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The Problem is when someone like Bush Jr. comes up and s everything up. Could you imagine having someone like him being President of The United States during the Cold War? Anyway, The UN did have a really good quick response to the North Korean invasion of South Korea. We almost had North Korea. If weren't for the goddamm chinese.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Yeah if it weren't for them all this Kim Jong Il shit wouldn't be happening and we wouldn't be about to go to war in Korea-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 18:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Hey Smith, if someone is at fault for not winning the Korean War and not having only one Korea, is Mao. Truman also kinda ed up by telling the 7th Fleet to enter the Taiwan Straits.<br />
:::Um, Task Force 141 is a play on Task Force 121, which in real life is a (dare I say) black ops verison of JSOC. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
I think the Task Force 141 is referring to Task Force 145 in reality. Task Force 145 is a joint force combining US and UK special forces<br />
<br />
== More weapons comfirmed ==<br />
<br />
It seems that p90 is making a return and spas 12 will also be ingame<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKBEQoSpu8<br />
:That guy got a lot of the guns wrong and that AUG Hbar looked more like a SA80 to me. And what the hell is up the people thinking that the FAL in the trailer is a AK? It looks nothing like it!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:00, 6 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well, most people are unaware of all the different kinds of firearms. I'm surprise this guy in the vid ID as much as there was. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CPT. Price ==<br />
I hope we get to find out if CPT. Price from CoD4 survived or not. That's been bugging me... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:47, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I think it would cheapen the ending of Modern Warfare 1 if he survived.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:51, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
How would that cheapen the ending of the first game? It was never clear if any of the team's survived. What about the Mile High Club mission where you hear Price and Gaz talk? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Gaz got shot in the face with a Desert Eagle, he's dead.-protoAuthor<br />
<br />
Captain Price leads the Task Force in this game!<br />
<br />
No, Soap leads the Task Force<br />
<br />
Soap does sound kind of similar to Cpt. Price. I guess Price rubbed off on him a little or something.<br />
<br />
*Price managed to last for sixty years without ageing, dying or trimming his moustache, so I can't see a little thing like being shot dead getting to him. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 10:16, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well...I would like if he came back right at the end and save Soap and Roach. But, he better have a even glourious moustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, recalling CoD1 a little more, Price has ''already'' died once in the series. He was shot dead on board the ''Tirpitz'' and you just left him there, only for him to turn up again in CoD2 apparently none the worse for it. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 08:26, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Didn't COD2 take place before COD1?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Can't remember, to be honest, I didn't play it that much; I was busy being an Annoyed PC Gamer because they took away my quicksaves, fire modes and health packs and replaced them with Not Being Killed Grenades [throw one to not be killed by that machinegun!]. Still, this is his second death in the series, so I wouldn't expect it to cramp his style much. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 12:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Gaz and Griggs got wasted though.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:03, 11 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Cpt. Price in CoD 1 and 2 is a diffrent Price, most probably grandfather. And it is unsure if Price died or if he got promoted and got a higher position...<br />
<br />
*Oh come on, it's either a clone or the same guy, they just came up with that when people started seriously questioning an extremely silly off-hand reference. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 07:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Don't talk about something you don't know sh¤t about... [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Price_(Call_of_Duty_4)] the two Cpt. Price are two diffrent guys<br />
<br />
*Two different, totally identical guys. It's an elaborate cover story to hide that Price is invincible and immortal. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Captain Price is a symbol representing the glourious British Military. Ok, he is just a tradition for the Guys at Infinity Ward but it would be really cool if he was a symbol.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Hes dead a russian medic was seen trying to revive him but failed an started bashing his chest<br />
<br />
Gaz... gone, .50 AE round to the face and you're done. Price... I doubt he'd be returning because let's face it he did die in COD4 and the Russian medic wouldn't have pounded his chest if he didn't die. As far as previous games go, Price was able to return because they didn't really have a tight storyline to them. But this Modern Warfare series does. So if Price returns, I think it'll be a bit ridiculous.<br />
:I like that they Replaced Price with Soap but there is one thing i don't like about it.<br />
<br />
No Glourious Mustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, but apparently Soap has a glorious Mohawk. And Price could be a good Zombie.<br />
<br />
Even if Price lived through the end of COD4, do you really think he'd still fight?<br />
:What reason would there be for him ''not'' to? Guys get wounded and go back to active duty all the time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Voice Actor, Billy Murray, has been confirmed as having worked on the project, if that's worth anything.<br />
:: Unfortunatly that could just end up being part of a flashback mission like in CoD 4. Here's hoping it's for a part of the main game.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
-Hes in the new trailer. Seriously, end of debate- k9870<br />
::If you're on about the guy on the assault boat, all we see is a guy in a boonie from behind. I'm going to withhold judgement until the game actually comes out.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At beginning of the Takedown level, Royce addresses "Bravo Six," Price's call sign from CoD4. Keep in mind that Captain Macmillan was Alpha Six, and that Soap's call sign is ''rumored'' to be Papa Six.<br />
:: Except Bravo six was also Lt Vasquez's callsign. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: Except that Vasquez died in a nuclear explosion. Price's odds of survival are much better that someone who was nuked, crashed in a helicopter, and then exposed to radiation. <br />
<br />
I think everyone here just needs to except that Cpt. Price has returned and is immortal like many other great men with Facial hair (I.E Gordan Freeman, Solid Snake, Chewbacca)<br />
<br />
it has been rumored that captain price (billy murray) will return as the commander of the 22 reg along with SSGT griggs (somehow) due to the fact we have been told (through the twitter page) that the voice actors have been paid record their voices but even then thiers nothing from stoping them from making another flashback mission with them<br />
<br />
:Hence my original point. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:53, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==General Observations==<br />
Though I freely admit I got wood watching this trailer one thing I noticed is that the guys from ''Infinity Ward'' seemed to have recycled some scenery. When they showed the guys running through the alleyways of Rio I swear it reminded me of the alleyways of the Arab capital the Marines run through in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]].<br />
<br />
:Not really. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The New pictures ==<br />
Could someone tell me where did that picture of the american soldier with the M4 came from?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/special-ops-characters --[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Jesus Christ, is the weapons section of that website all kinds of ed up. Thet called an FN-FAL a G3 and they called an AK-74 a AK-47. What the mother ? At least that means that we, IMFDB members, have the best website documenting weapons in Modern Warfare 2. But still, what the mother ?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
Is all the cussing necessary but yes I do agree that this website is the most reliable.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
Wow... that site has the MP5 listed as being 40. S&W [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
LoL that site is horrible... if you think that page is bad just jump into the forums... all kinds of gems in there... read the one about the Taurus Raging Bull. the guy says "goodluck reloading its four barrels" <- That had me laughing with the stupidity of that statement. - Furious Oyster<br />
<br />
== TAR-21 or F2000? ==<br />
[[Image:MW2TR6.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Brazilian Militia firing the unknown rifle, presumably a[[FN F2000#FN F2000 Tactical|FN F2000 Tactical]]]]<br />
Isn't it a TAR-21 rather than a F2000?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's way too big to be a Tavor. Most likely an F2000.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah... the form is rather an F2000 too...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:My question is where the is the scope?-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 15:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::There is an version of the FN2000 that has the scope replaced with rails. I guess that's the one in the picture above.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Whats that under the F2000? Its too skinny to be an M203, I think its a shotugn--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 03:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Looks like an Remington 870.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
How the hell would they fit a shotgun/Masterkey on the three inches of forward rails that the F2000 has? More like a shotgun with an F2000 attachment, rather than the other way around.--[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well it definetly looks to be a shotgun, however it's mounted on there.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MP7? Are you sure? ==<br />
<br />
Where do you exactly see MP7?<br />
<br />
I only see custom MP5 (or MP5k without foregrip) on the right and two copies of another unidentified weapons on the left.<br />
They have curved magazines where MP7 has foregrip and their casing is completly different.<br />
MP7 doesn't match...<br />
[[User:Morihaus|Morihaus]] 17:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)Morihaus<br />
<br />
I saw a picture of it yesterday and i cant remember where. and i think it was a russian behind a shield, but im not sure if i remember that correctly. but the MP7 is definitely here -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
== FAL Please ==<br />
<br />
I know one of the screenshots show's what appears to be an MD-2, but I still wanan see a FAL in MW2. I'm getting annoyed by G36Cs and M16s and G3KA4s in all these games. The FAL was a true combat rifle, and I do has want (sorry for net speak)--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 20:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: I absolutely agree with the above statement-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Me too but, the MD-2 is good enough for me. And it is Brazilian! That makes me proud of being Brazilian.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
: I like the Imbel also, its a pretty solid gun-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Which Imbel? Imbel is the manufacturer.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Their FAL copy with the fixed stock (it's the only one I've held)-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 22:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Those are just called FN FALs.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::The Imbel is great and all, but the FAL is a solid 7.62 rifle. Also, I noticed they're using the AUG A1, not A3 for MW2. I'm pleased with that as the original AUG model was always my favorite.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:08, 26 June <br />
2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TDI "Kriss" ==<br />
I know the Kriss is going to be hyped in MW2, as its a powerful .45 ACP SMG that has virtually no recoil and great accuracy. But the guys at IW won't let such a perfect gun into multiplayer, because it'll turn into a noob weapon fast. My bet's on that they purposely change one of it's stats to make it more balanced. Any guesses on what they'll take away from it? My bet is make it less powerful.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There IS recoil in the Kriss. Every gun has recoil.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::True, but it varies what the recoil force actually ''does'' and how much of it the user feels; the recoil has to go somewhere, but it can be towards things like fighting the gun's own muzzle climb by shoving a weight downwards [as with the Kriss], stopping a barrel that's moving forwards [as with the XM307 / XM312], or quite a number of other things. The general idea is that the Kriss has very light felt recoil for its weight [less than half the weight of a Thompson] because of the novel operating system. And I imagine they'll either limit the magazine, turn it into a peashooter or make it horribly inaccurate. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 02:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Or Infinity Ward could make the Kriss a Kicking Rad gun that you will get when you reach the highest level. An all around gun.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 02:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::What about the Rate of Fire? i don't remember if the Kriss had a high R.O.F. or not<br />
:::::From the Future Weapons video I watched on the Kriss, it seems to have an average MP5 like rate of fire. But if IW does let the Kriss go all out, it'll be revenge of the pwned when people get a hold of it. Take that noob tubers! Have some .45 slugs in the face!--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Hey man, the noob tube is awesome.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::People who hates tubers are just gamers. Sure I get off when I get hit in the face by an M203, but hell, I use one too. It's a very good field weapon. In combat, there is no such thing as cheap shot. There's hit and miss. Even in games, if you killed a guy, it's a kill, doesn't matter how you did it, unless you used cheats, but I use the M203 all the time, and 2 shells is what you get in multiplayer, so quit complaining, those on the recieving end of my tube. Now the P90 was a widely used gun for noobs cause of it's high ROF and mag capacity and with the slight of hand perk, you can reload the faster than you could in real life[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::People who complain about tubes in modern games don't remember the days of real noob-tubes, back when the 203 was your alt fire, had realistically-sized splash and had a zero arming distance, and a newbie could easily end a game with a positive score just by firing it point-blank whenever they had more than one person in front of them. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 07:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
I agree i just hate the loss of a perk its better than juggernaut.--[[User:Panther61DC08|Panther61DC08]] 20:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::ANYTHING is better then juggernaut man. And yeah, I use the M203 from time to time, but people who use it constantly should really just go sit down.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Most online gamers are idiots who most likely don't know the difference between a bullet and a bolt carrier, so they're going to label anyone who kills them a [insert gun name here] noob. If you kill them with an M4, you're an M4 noob. If you kill them with a P90, you're a P90 noob. If you kill them with a shotgun, you're a shotgun noob. It never ends. The point of playing a game is to have fun, so I'm gonna use what I like to use (including the 203) regardless of what everyone else thinks about it. If I nail some tit in the face with a 40 mike-mike, they can whine and cry "noob tuber" all f'n day, it isn't going to change that I put a 40 mike-mike into their face. Only thing about me is that I can do it from a block away (an in-game block, I mean), rather than at point blank. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
:I have a Class that it's specialty is to piss people off. Yes, i am a asshole. BUT, i am a professional asshole.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As far as the Kriss goes they sure as hell have never fired it (which disappoints me that they put all these exotic weapons in that they really havent touched... in COD4 they actually fired most of the weapons and that gave it a level of authenticity) so i dont think they'll pay attention to the fact that it takes most of the recoil for you. when you fire it youll probably be shooting all over the place with heavy recoil -Mandaloin<br />
<br />
::Well looky here, an icon for picking up a "FAL Red Dot sight" In the Multiplayer trailer. There is a god, because the FN FAL has finally made it into an awesome game![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 05:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The Kriss does seem to have a comparably short barrel to the UMP. IW could lower the damage due to the lower velocity? not sure what barrel length is ideal for .45ACP but I just thought that could be used as a reason to balance? that and the Kriss only uses the .45 Glock pistol mags correct? so maybe your attachment is an extended mag to help compete? -FuriousOyster<br />
<br />
:From what we've seen, the Kriss in MW2 is already being used with the experimental 26 round magazine currently being developed for the gun. As for barrel length, it's on par with the UMP, plus its shorter overall. Who knows, maybe IW will just make the Kriss what it is in real life, a hard and precise hitting sub machine gun. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== HK416? ==<br />
<br />
Possible HK416-<br />
<br />
The SAS guy with the Mohawk & Glock @ 0:30 of the reveal trailer seems to carry something resembling an HK416 (Notice the rear H&K hallmark diopter sights...).<br />
--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 15:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Thats actually Soap. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
<br />
that is either the M4 or M468(most likely an M4)<br />
<br />
Why would they add the HK 416? Internally it's far superior to the M4, but as far as video games go they're virtually the same.<br />
<br />
I hope they don't. It's not that I necessarily hate the HK416 (well, okay, maybe I do ''a little bit''), but let's give LWRC's or Colt's gas pistons some love. The 416 and XM8 are way overused in shooters today. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
:And the rear sight on Soap's M4 looks more like an ARMS #40L to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:Again, why do people think that when they see a cool looking AR15 in a game or a movie shot they RIGHT AWAY say, HK416 or M468 AKA REC7 as it is called now.? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]<br />
::Because a lot of people are so fracking biased against DI guns that it's crazy. They're quick to tout the AK's widespread use as an example of its so-called "superiority", but that same argument means "absolutely nothing" to the same people when it's applied to the M4 and variants ''chosen'' by elite forces all over the planet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:34, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
yeah, i agree, it is ridiculous, especially since you can upgrade an m4 to perform exactly like any of the other new weapons and do it for a $1,000 cheaper. it makes you wonder why were even replacing the m4?<br />
:Same reason the army bought a new grenade launcher: It's shiny and new. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==FN P90==<br />
Why haven't anyone added the P90? It has been confirmed and in the E3 trailer there was a pickup icon for the P90 and it said "Press # to ick up P90"<br />
:Did you miss [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Modern_Warfare_2#FN_P90TR this?]-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Re-added ==<br />
Hey evryone Activision has decided to re-add the Call of Duty prefix back to the Modern Warfare 2 title making the game now being called: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, instead of just Modern Warfare 2? Actvision added the Call of Duty prefix because of the lowered awareness of the Call of Duty series [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 17:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:So we're changing the name again on this site? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The changing is not official yet. They're still calling the game "''Modern Warfare 2''" (source: [http://kotaku.com/5315981/infinity-ward-talks-modern-warfare-2-43-stories-up]). In fact, nobody at Activision or Infinty Ward ever called the game "''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2''", search any quotes you want. Also, the hardened and prestiges editions (collector versions) don't have "''Call of Duty''" on their boxes.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 14:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Walther WA2000 ==<br />
Does someone has an ingame picture of this game, because I doubt its presence in the game. And there is no use for a weapon to be listed if there is no proof.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I strongly concur with Phantom. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:16, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Behold, a really, really silly bundle: ==<br />
<br />
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=219720<br />
<br />
I can understand doing that for something like a ''Splinter Cell'' bundle (sorta), but... [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 08:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm so getting that... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
NVG's that max out to 50 feet, failll<br />
<br />
:*facedesk* Behold, NVGs for less then 200 with a $70 game and art book, Who wants to bet those are made by a company who's name you can't pronounce and is based in a country that rhymes with Dina? Anyhow, I already pre-ordered the standard game, I don't need fancy art books and hard cases and crappy NVGs, I just want what may be the best FPS ever created, period. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I'm don't want the nod to use, I just want them as a bad-@$$ display for the living room. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
== Cover Restoration ==<br />
Does anyone have any unique or expensive software to put this image on the front page?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Cover.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Original]]<br />
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Final.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The best I could do.]]<br />
<br />
It's not the standard edition box.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:06, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== SPAS-12? ==<br />
Do you think this shotgun is a SPAS-12? Since we were shown that there is one in this level during a gameplay demo, it could be possible.<br />
[[Image:MW2shotgunspa.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
<br />
its a FAMAS- the folded bipod<br />
<br />
:Nope, it's a WA2000<br />
<br />
::The Walther WA2000 has a "skeletal" look to it and is a bolt-action sniper rifle. This image shows the weapon having a pump gauge at the bottom, meaning that it must be some sort of shotgun, as opposed to the WA2000's bolt-action. <s>Besides, I may be mistaken since I don't pay much attention to the FAMAS, but the last time I checked, the FAMAS didn't have a folding stock.</s> --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Sorry, I didn't see that you meant "bipod", not "stock". I don't see the point in the FAMAS having one of those, either. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's not a shotgun, the "handgrip" is too long to be a pump like you were saying, i agree with the fact that it is a WA2000, it has the same front end and flash hider as the walther. By the way, the walther can be either semi or bolt action.<br />
<br />
yeah i think its a Wa200 too, you can even see a fat ol' scope and a bipod on it. look real close for the scope.<br />
<br />
Now that I think about it, it looks more of a WA200, if not a SPAS-12, and it is definitely not a FAMAS. And please, fellas, sign your edits. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Confirmed Weapons ==<br />
Could someone tell me where those weapons were confirmed?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Which one?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::All of them. But if you can only confirm only one, then confirm the MD3.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::For the Imbel, I think it's almost sure. It has the look, it's Brazil... But it can still be a FAL... For the others like G36, Walter WA2000 or HK416, I will delete them until they provide us screenshots or other proofs that these weapons will be in the game. They think because modernwarfare247.com has listed them, it will be in the game but it's just a fansite, not an official one, and they don't have ingame screens to prove like us.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, the Imbel Makes sense to be in the game.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The forearm looks more like an Imbel than a FAL too.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Does this help on the FAL?<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Fal_online_vid.png<br />
[[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]]<br />
:HELL YES. Thank god there is a FAL in this. And, yes that helps on the FN FAL.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:53, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::So, it's almost sure that the weapons carried by the brazilians are FAL? I don't think they will include two weapons pretty identical... Unless they changed the rate of fire on each weapon much like the M4/M16 AR.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:02, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's the Imbel but Infinity Ward named it FN FAL. Like the AKMSU/AK-74S fuck up in Modern Warfare 1.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think its the fal, it looks like it uses a bigger magazine therefore a bigger round, the MD 3 uses 223, the fal uses 308<br />
::I noticed that too. It looks like a FN FAL with an 30 round magazine. But look at the Forearm. It looks like an MD-3 forearm to me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::But it could be based on the DSA SA-58, which has a shorter fore end, and curved .308 mags do exist. Either way though, a FAL in Mw2 is win in my books. Infact, here's a nice picture that may help that theory, [url]http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg[/url] [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M4==<br />
<br />
The M4 used in the game had been confirmed as a Bushmaster M4. According to one of the guys working on MW2 he has told in the Call of Duty wikia that the M4 is a Bushmaster M4.... Could someone add that??<br />
<br />
:wheres the proof?<br />
<br />
::As of now, nothing can be added to the main article since there are no sources or evidence that provide the actual facts. Do you happen to have a link of the official statement? I think what he means is that the M4 (when mounted with sights or scopes) looks like a Bushmaster ORC (Optics-Ready Carbine), since it's rear and front sights are already removed. But just because it looks like it doesn't mean it has to be a Bushmaster. And again, guys, please sign your edits. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 21:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The M4 IS a Bushmaster! And proof is right here on IMFDB! I took this from the pic of Soap and enlarged it.<br />
<br />
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm97/SpartanWarrior198/Soap_Bushmaster_M4.jpg<br />
<br />
Snake logo on the mag well is Bushmaster's. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And I just noticed Soap is wearing US Army UCP, as well... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:So what? In this fictional universe, Bushmaster makes all the M4s? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, true, but this is a video game set in the near future. It could very well be possible that Bushmaster took over M4 production from Colt (since their exclusivity agreement expired back in June) in the Modern Warfare world.[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And I doubt IW would put two or more different identical "M4s" in the game. I can see an M4 and HK416 or REC7 put side-by-side in the game because there are some slight external differences (and caliber increase in the case of the REC7), but there'd be no point in having separate Colt and Bushmaster M4s, both virtually identical externally, at the same time. But then again the still above could very well be just promotional with a Bushmaster put in because it's all they had available to model. But we'll find out for sure Nov. 10th... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Hmm... Bushmaster may have used the Call of Duty franchise to advertise for their weapons, as seen on the lower receiver of the M4. Maybe likely, maybe not; but it is a possibility. Cheers, --{{User:Blemo/Sig}}<br />
::::HK did it with R6, so why can't Bushmaster do it with MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Winchester 1887==<br />
<br />
No way this is a winchester 1887, you have to out of your mind to think that.<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:MW2Winch1887.jpg<br />
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Winchester1887shotgun.jpg<br />
<br />
yeah dude there's one in there, it must be like a cheat code to get it but there is a picture.<br />
<br />
I dought you need a cheat code to get it as the enemy you can kill and take their weapons have it. <br />
Also it could be the Chinese copy.<br />
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
There was a ''Public Ennemies'' version of the weapon which was closer to the one in the screenshot, but it has been deleted.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I think it would be peculiar to have the old lever shotgun in MW2, but definitely a cool choice of gun. It may not be the fastest or most powerful, but it has nostalgia and cool to it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It could be like the Stg-44 from COD4, a retro weapon. <br />
It was called MP44 in Cod4 not Stg-44 that was in W@W just trying to help. -FuriousOyste<br />
: The MP44/StG-44 was only in CoD4 as a nod to the other games in the franchise which are all set during WW2. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Maybe you can unlock Price's mustache as a nod to his awesomely awesome mustache from MW1? =D -FuriousOyster<br />
<br />
Since IW seem to be going along the "fun" route while still sticking to a semi-realism point of view, it's probably safe to assume this was added as a "fun gun". It's likely with the recent videos of the "Flag Runner" and the addition of throwing knives there adding weapons that no serious soldier would use in direct combat but would be awesome to use a video game multiplayer match. It's possible they added it as a reference to Terminator 2, I wonder if they'll add the M79 and a portable minigun... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:11, 02 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There should be two reload animations. The first one you reload normally but in the second one you reload like the T-600, With one goddamm hand.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That was only chambering fresh rounds, not reloading it, but I see your poit. Either way though, having an old school lever action shotty will surely make things, uh, interesting? And throwing knives will just attract goddamn ninjas. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ninjas that I'll gladly lay waste to in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Amen to that man, they can throw all the knives they want, but that won't stop them from taking a burst of FAL rounds in the chest. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"Those who live by the sword get shot by the ones who don't". Ninja's were cowards anyways. They retreated rather than fought most of the time-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 00:05, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Don't debate on the articles ==<br />
<br />
Stop debating on the page do it in here that's what it is for.<br />
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am confused you say not to debate here but then you say to debate here. I am new to this.<br />
::Jake, can you speak english?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I mean don't debate on the main page with the articles it clutters it.--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 05:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::What Jake means, is that to hold all disputes, comments, and debates on the discussion (talk) page, instead of the article itself. The page you are looking at is the talk page and you should type any comments on this page. If you look at the top, there are seven tabs (varies on your status and monobook of the wiki), but for more users, it says, "page, discussion, edit, +, history, move, & watch". Make sure the "discussion" tab is pressed before you make your edit. Typing in the tab that says "page" makes the article look unprofessional and a hassle to read. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 21:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::I'll move all the discussion here...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 13:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Glock ==<br />
The GameTrailers Analysis states that it is a [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22]], but this is unconfirmed. It could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] since in the video demo shown at the E3 conference, it fires fully automatically. <br />
[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] - 9x19mm. This model has compensator cuts on the slide and barrel to reduce muzzle climb while firing]]<br />
[[Image:MW2Glock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A [[Glock]] fired by "Roach" on a snowmobile in Mission "Cliffhangar". Note olive-drab frame.]]<br />
[[Image:MW2SpOpGlock.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This US special ops has a olive-drab framed Glock in his thigh holster (barely off-shot).]]<br />
<br />
*An interesting note is that the Glock fires dramatically slower than a Glock 18 or other converted Glocks. The Glock from the video's rate of fire is only around 600-700 RPM, where as a real Automatic Glock fires around 1100+ RPM -- Mythekal<br />
<br />
:The guy COULD just be firing in semi VERY fast so that it seems like it's full auto. A lot of the handguns in COD4 if you tap the trigger in quick successions, it seems almost full auto [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". Glock 18's did not have this color available. Glock 22's just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a Glock 18 with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.<br />
<br />
:::Not to disagree with you, I mean, you strike a really good point, but I've seen video game companies butcher their weapons into having colors or functions that they don't even have in the first place. Perhaps this is the case, although highly unlikely. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 17:08, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== H&K USP .45 ==<br />
Shown in a stage demo for GameSpot, Roach wields it with a knife at the same time. There is a similar technique where you do this with a flashlight. If someone would care to name it please do as I forgot for the moment.<br />
<br />
*Take your pick from CQC, CQB, Combatives or Defendu. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
** The particular technique shown below with the support arm under the wrist of the main arm indexing the flashlight along the axis of the barrel is called the Harris Method. In this case it's being done with a knife presumably because it looks cool.<br />
*** It's actually done for CQC and not just cause it looks cool. A similar method to this is what Snake does on MGS.But he holds the Knife with the gun by the grips.Perhaps the Harries method is more comfortable than Snake's CQC method,so they made it that way.<br />
**** <br />
[[Image:HK-USP.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch USP .45 ACP. Note the slightly longer barrel/slide and grip compared to the 9mm and .40 S&W models above.]]<br />
[[Image:USP_with_knife.JPG|thumb|none|400px|]]<br />
<br />
== Akimbo ==<br />
<br />
*Need some confirmation on this as I cant find any videos or images of this, supposedly the player is now able to Dual wield or go Akimbo with Pistols, particularly twin desert eagles were seen in a demonstration during a show off session to fans. <br />
<br />
This is one of the websites with this article:<br />
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/08/27/modern-warfare-2-has-guns-akimbo/1<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
<br />
:There was a screenshot of the Desert Eagle being held akimbo during a gameshow in Vegas (the name of which I forgot...) I'm not sure if it was already added to the article, but I'll take a look. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Now Akimbo? I'm having less and less faith in this new game with most of these cliche shit added on. We got too many kinds of new guns enough to put Rainbow Six to shame, odd matches for people and prototype guns in wide use. This game went from pretty cool to up down cliche generic shooter. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Leaked Video ==<br />
<br />
Found this video while searching the net on youtube. <br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FuwFT4p5hA<br />
<br />
At 1:28 there appears to be a new weapon, it looks like it says "Shotgun" but the video is low qaulity and I'm having a hard time finding out what it is? The icon image looks similar to that of a Saiga shotgun but I'm not sure. From the looks of it, the IMI Mini Uzi will be making a return.<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]<br />
<br />
[[Image:Mw2brazilshotgun.png]] I think it says (litterally) "FAL w/ Shotgun"... Shotgun attachment?!--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
MASTERKEY! that would be awesome! on the other hand... COD4 shotguns were pretty pointless. so I doubt an even shorter barreled one would be worth it.<br />
<br />
:Yeah, there have been rumors of an under-slung shotgun attachment. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That does surely say FAL with Shotgun, as it matches the shape of the other FAL seen in a trailer, sweet! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Continuity Error(??) ==<br />
<br />
Perhaps, in the E3 Gameplay video, the Infinity Ward boyz made a continuity error. If you will, note that Roach is first seen using a USP .45, but later, on the snowmobile, he switches to a Glock 18/22/whatever. Just a thought.<br />
<br />
:Doubt it. games arn't that sloppy. Its probably given to you when you board the snowmobile because firing a semiautomatic weapon while you are going pretty fast wouldn't help much unless you have a very steady hand. better to have a wide spread than accuracy when you cant predict the enemy that well. [[user:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
::Well apparently you are able to equip 3 weapons?, but that still wouldn't explain how he got that glock.<br />
<br />
:::What 5t3v0 says is true. Video game developers aren't that sloppy and I think that the publishers purposefully made this so-called "continuity error". I think that the Glock is for use only for the snowmobile portion of the mission, since its high rate of fire (compared to the HK USP .45) is more ideal for tracking and shooting fast-moving vehicles. Many other video games during their vehicle missions use the same logic (i.e. a mounted machine gun on the snowmobile in [[007: Nightfire]]). --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 04:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::There's one on each of the snowmobiles, There's a holster somewhere.<br />
<br />
Okay first of all, i know you know its just a game, so thats my first statement, and my second is, who says you cant have another holster on you, one on your thigh, one on your rig, or two on both your thighs? and then you either have access to it in the game or you dont, and we can all pretend like roach just doesnt want to use it until the snowmobile thing or something like that.<br />
<br />
== New mw video ==<br />
<br />
Gentlemen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4PMRFkx07g<br />
<br />
<br />
Damn, the MP5K Looks SWEET! And throwing knives? kick-ass!!! man as soon as this is released im disowning my copy of COD4.<br />
<br />
== Double Barrel Shotty ==<br />
<br />
According to the guys over at the COD Wiki, the Double barrel shotgun will make a return(from COD5), has anyone else seen this?<br />
<br />
* It's possible with the inclusion of other "fun" weapons like the Winchester M1887 and Throwing knives, but I'm not going to get my hopes up about it... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:18, 02 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:Try not to include wiki as a source unless there's pics of the actual shotgun ingame. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:41, 2 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The OXM stated that (Official Xbox Magazine). The DB shotgun will have separate trigger for each barrel.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:44, 3 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::You said it will make a return, it never was in cod4, or are you referring to cod5? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 15:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Sorry, shouldve been a little clearer, i was referring to cod5<br />
<br />
== Mk14 Rifle ==<br />
<br />
The Mk14 on the screenshot is not a Mk14 Mod0 battle rifle but a Mk14 Mod1 ([http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/albums/closeup/Mk_14_Mod_1.jpg]), the second modification. Still based on the M14/M1A battle rifle/semi-auto rifle, but using M4 grip and stock with the EBR chassis. The version used by soaped also seems to sport a Magpul MOE stock with cheek rest.<br />
<br />
Now that I see that new picture on the page with the mk14 in it I think that it is also a mod 1. Who else is thinks so?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
== Highrise Gameplay videos (Cam) ==<br />
<br />
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/modern-warfare-2/11043<br />
<br />
Just saw this today, the "trailer" section also has a trailer cam of a predator missile and a supply drop, it also shows off the UMP45.<br />
<br />
The newer highrise videos show a few weapons in the game that would now be deemed confirmed to a degree. It's labelled 1 through 5 in parts. They all feature different guns, I remember seeing two icons, one which was thought to be a place holder, the L85 was displayed as the L86 LSW (maybe an attachment for the L85?) including a PP-2000 Akimbo. Other's include various MG's which I can't identify, a SPAS-12 shotgun in full view (with appropriate icon) and the FAMAS and UMP.<br />
<br />
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The videos from Gametrailers also seem to show a silenced SPAS 12, which should be fun. <br />
<br />
[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:14, 16 September 2009<br />
<br />
== New video confirms a few weapons==<br />
<br />
A few weapons are probably confirmed by this video from Screwattack, PP-2000 amongst them.<br />
http://www.screwattack.com/Events/MW2HandsOn<br />
[[User:DAnnysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 14:39, 16 September 2009<br />
<br />
:Just from watching, I saw the FAMAS, RPD, M4, SCAR, PP2000, AT4 (now a weapon not a perk, and more.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] <br />
00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
everything in the game is now content locked. that means any weapon seen will be in the final game<br />
<br />
happy hunting<br />
<br />
==Zombie Mode==<br />
<br />
Any idea if theyll have one?<br />
<br />
No they wont. Instead they have a spec-ops mode. Besides, its not cool of Infinity ward to copy treyarchs thing. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]<br />
<br />
Yeah, especially when Treyarch has made an entire career out of copying Infinity Ward<br />
<br />
== Create A Class Menu ==<br />
<br />
Several weapons,perks, and attachments have now been confirmed in a new video's on youtube including [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], [[PP-2000]], [[M79 grenade launcher]], [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]], [[RPD light machine gun]], [[Franchi SPAS-12]] and much more. <br />
<br />
Source: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s]<br />
<br />
[[Image:CreateAClass.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Create a Class Menu.]]<br />
<br />
== Infamy (New Trailer) ==<br />
<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8toHfZm6jNE<br />
<br />
The Guy in the Airport wearing a black suit (presumably this Makarov character) looks like he was carrying a SCAR-L but then I noticed the RIS rails to which it was just a regular M4. It was weird how they made look very similar to the SCAR-L, yet at 1:31 in the Infamy trailer there's a guy with outline of the SCAR-L. It looks like the "Mini-Uzi" is now confirmed to be apart of the machine pistol lineup of weapons. Also does anyone think the AK at 0:57 looks odd? Kinda looks to me like a AN-94. - [[Draco122|Draco122]] 07:07 05 October 2009<br />
<br />
*The weapon Makarov was holding looked like an M4 to me, but I think your right about the Mini-Uzi being a machine pistol now. And as for the AK it looked like the rest of the AKs I've seen from ingame pictures and footage. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 20:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The guy is holding an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Wall of guns ==<br />
<br />
Just got this off of Gametrailers TV. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[Image:MW2wallofguns.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
*Too late, man.)<br />
<br />
== Sentry Gun ==<br />
<br />
On Gamesrader.com, an article on the impressions of MW2, mentions a Sentry Gun in the Kill Streak list. After doing some research, I've found a supposed concept of the Sentry Gun on Modernwarfare247.com. Apparently it seems to be the XM312 .50Cal fitted with a Camera. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[Image:Leaked-mw2-art-book-12.jpg|300px|thumb|left|XM312]]<br />
<br />
<br />
maybe its a .50BMG on a CROWS-type system<br />
<br />
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<br />
<br />
==Screenshot==<br />
<br />
The first two are Scars, the second has a Masterkey, the third with an ACOG doesnt quite look right, and I cant tell what the digital one is, any help?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Mw2scars.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]<br />
<br />
The two on the right might be ACR's--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 03:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The digital one is the bushmaster ACR. It looks a little funny but that is it.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
== W2000 ==<br />
<br />
I'm not 100% certain on this, but isn't the W2000 a collector's sniper rifle? I mean this is a rather expensive sniper rifle made as a colector's rifle. So why would the military be using it in whatever war this game takes place in?<br />
<br />
And we're supposed to know the thought process behind Infinity Ward's weapon decisions how?<br />
<br />
Remember the game black where w2000s were just laying all over eastern europe?<br />
<br />
:Yeah, ever since Black came out, WA2000s have been known to be laying all across Europe, ripe for the picking! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Haha Agent 47 spends thousands of dollars just to maintain one yet European armies can buy millions of them just to lay around randomly :P<br />
<br />
== Unfocused ==<br />
<br />
This game is looking more and more gimmicky by the day. It's as if they're going all out to jam as much modern technology into the game as possible, whether it makes sense or not. Brazilian militia with FN F2000 assault rifles? Russian terrorists with the TDI Vector? ''Really''? --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 08:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's true that I feel the game is adding so much new stuff it won't be anything like CoD4. It bothers me that Infinity Ward is going over the top just because of its huge fanbase.<br />
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]<br />
<br />
For those of you who have seen "Lord of War", remember Nicolas Cage's quote: "Where there's a will, there's a weapon." I'm sure that their theory for the MW2 universe is that some FN or TDI salesmen forgot who they were working for, and sold their latest & greatest weapons to the bad guys, and got paid more in a day or two than they would earn working for a decade. I believe that money is the most corrupting force on Earth. Also, I do recall a story about some F2000s winding up in the hands of a militia in East Timor a few years ago, and I'm not sure whether or not FN figured out how they got there. <br />
-KLR<br />
:I've heard of this happening with a custom M14 maker. One of their people was rebuilding some MK14Mod0 on the side and smuggling them to the phillipines if i rememger correctly. The man was caught and is spending a long vacation is club fed. --[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As much as I agree that the weapons are going a little crazy (how the hell do Brazilians in the slums of Rio get their hands on such powerful NATO weaponry?), remember this game isn't set in the present day, its sometime in 2016 I think. So who knows, in that year the rarer weapons of today may be more widely available. Unlikely I know, but possible. [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 10:45, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And besides, the game would be very boring if everyone had AK's. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not exactly. Im not liking the whole high end weapons idea for militia. I would have been fine seeing militia using ak variants and other common battle rifles. --[[User:mythekal|mythekal]]<br />
<br />
You must remember that all gangs in Rio get majority of there weapons from buying over seas and from corrupt military and police units, who themselves have stockpiles of powerful NATO weapons (M4s, AKs, FNs,etc.). And the Brazilian militia's leader is an Arms Dealer who has ties with the Ultranationalists, any Arms dealer that big can afford to give his men some much more flashier weapons! Also this is just a game too!--[[User:Choi117|Choi117]]<br />
<br />
In the first game the russians had g36cs, ak-47s, m9s and 1911s, not like, ak-74s and makarovs. In this they seem to have gone to just having tacticool bullpups and high-end everything.....I laugh if you pick p an m9 in brazil even though your infinitely more likely to get a taurus pt92.<br />
<br />
One aspect of Modern Warfare 2 is notably the fact, that although not identified by developers, is the way in which the worlds runs, MONEY!, believe it or not but the American government has been dealing arms for years, all to up there pay check, the result is quite devastating, its give there own troops a disadvantage but what do they care money's, money, they would give nuclear weapons to iraq if there was enough money.<br />
<br />
:Actually, the American government deals arms mainly to friendly nations and used to deal arms to CIA backed insurgencies. So, you know, they wouldn't be selling things like NUKES you moron. As far as the purchase of these weapons, just consider Mexico today: You have a 'military' (if you can really call the Mexican Army a military) where 250,000 soldiers have left to work for a drug cartel or just left the country, leaving their rifles with the cartels. Then you have those same cartels buying firearms from third world SA countries that were provided firearms by the US for insurgencies. Then you have cartels buying firearms from people very similar to Cage's character in Lord of War. In 2016, it's more than believable taht those dealers could be selling ill-gotten FN2000's to wherever they damn well please.<br />
<br />
I think that they are adding all of these guns because after Zakheav died the ultranationalists kinda fell apart and now they use anything they get their hands on so some of their guys probably decided too buy their own guns and thought they might as weel go big.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Left_4_Dead_2&diff=198014Talk:Left 4 Dead 22009-10-28T13:40:05Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* The Demo is OUT */</p>
<hr />
<div>I'm moving this to Left 4 Dead 2, without the colon.<br />
<br />
- I'll update later with additional images, and the other guns when I can. Unless other people can get footage or see footage of other firearms seen in the new Left 4 Dead 2, it will be greatly appreciated.<br />
:I don't think the SCAR will be in the game. I think i saw the M16A3 in one of the videos.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC) I am pretty sure the scar is in the game the game footage shows it being fired.<br />
:Why are there very few civilian weapons in zombie games? If I was in a zombie apocolypse I would be carrying a bolt action rifle and a revolver, with no heavy military hardware other than my father's M4-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:12, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Must be from all the Military Outposts. Valve said that one of the Levels would be where the Virus Didn't really hit. I guess it would be full of Soldiers in there.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I wouldn't even bother with military guns. All in all, my own stuff is way better than MilSpec-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Also, why would they put an AKM in the game? 7.62x39 is sorta hard to get in large quantities-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 19:10, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::You're starting to talk about logic in video games. Let me rephrase that, you're starting to talk about logic involving zombies in a video game, where a shotgun blast to the face of one of your survivor friends won't kill them. You gotta take everything with a grain of salt. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 20:34, 16 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Logic can work with video games. It just depends on what kind of Video Game you are playing or talking about.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:35, 16 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
== M4? ==<br />
<br />
The weapons list has the M-16, but I've got an XBox magazine with a multi-page preview of L4D2 and several images of the characters holding an M4 with a 10" barrel. That could be added to the list as well if someone could find a decent screencap.<br />
<br />
--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 09:42, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
: I'm getting it the day it comes out (I preordered it) so I'll let you know if there is an M4 or if it's an M16 after I play it for a little while-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:50, 25 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::M4s? i didn't see any M4s in the gameplay videos.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:20, 16 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
The rifles in game are the FN SCAR L, The M16 from Left 4 Dead, the AKM, The G3, and the Ruger Mini-14. The M4 is like the MP5 and SW MP10 in the first game. they sort of appear as filler in concept art.<br />
<br />
== Mounted Gun ==<br />
<br />
Here's a picture of a mounted gun in a supposedly leaked video (can find it http://www.gametrailers.com/video/leaked-zombie-left-4-dead/58013). I think it's a .50 cal, but the bore diamater seems pretty big to me.<br />
<br />
[[Image:L4d2_mounted_gun.JPG]]<br />
<br />
And yes, my picture sucks. I would've gotten rid of the video paused on the top left but got lazy.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:00, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Of course it's an M2.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Are screenshots considerd copyrighted? ==<br />
<br />
There is a bunch of screenshots for this game, but I do not know if screenshots are considered copyrighted or something we could get in trouble for. If they are not then I could put some images to match the firearms. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 02:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guns in the German only version ==<br />
<br />
The german version of the game is going to feature 3 guns from Counter strike: source.[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4blsnyDYGvo&feature=player_embedded]. Should this be added? [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
== The Demo is OUT ==<br />
Assuming, of course, that one pre-ordered. Having played through it six times, I've encountered every firearm the demo gives you access to, and have updated the page accordingly. The biggest surprise is the SCAR-L, with a 60 round magazine and three shot burst! The biggest letdown is the Desert Eagle, which, while useful for killing common infected, is nearly useless against the rarer infected (it took 4 shots to kill a smoker, when a shotgun takes 1). <br />
Other interesting items, and if someone wants to add these to the weapons list, feel free:<br />
Boomer Bile: There is a container, made of glass, containing boomer bile. When thrown, it basically acts like a pipebomb, except it doesn't hurt the zombies at all.<br />
Machete: The classic zombie killing weapon makes an appearance, and is a near-guaranteed one hit kill on any common infected. Also, it swings fairly fast, much like the<br />
Nighstick: Swinging fairly fast, it kills common zombies in a blow or two, and knocks some back, much like the<br />
Frying Pan: Yes, you too can kill zombies with cast iron cookware. Does about the same damage as the other melee weapons, leaving us with the<br />
Electric Guitar: Reminiscent of a Les-Paul design with a double-cutaway and a headstock that I can't quite place. Kills most common zombies in the first hit, and makes a pretty cool noise!<br />
Adrenaline: A new item that can take the place of the painkillers of the last game. When taken, seems to make character a bit faster. May have other effects.<br />
Shock Paddles: A new item that replaces your medpack (yes, I know). It brings back downed members from the dead. Haven't used it, but did pick it up.<br />
Well, that's about it. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:05, 28 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I had read about the scar having a 3 round burst, cool to know that it is comfirmed. I think that the M16 has new animations and will only fire in 3 round burst but Im not sure on that. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 07:52, 28 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Nope. The M16 DOES have new animations, but it doesn't fire in burst. It fires full auto, and has the same 50 round mag.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Left_4_Dead_2&diff=197927Talk:Left 4 Dead 22009-10-28T05:05:53Z<p>Asmkillr323: </p>
<hr />
<div>I'm moving this to Left 4 Dead 2, without the colon.<br />
<br />
- I'll update later with additional images, and the other guns when I can. Unless other people can get footage or see footage of other firearms seen in the new Left 4 Dead 2, it will be greatly appreciated.<br />
:I don't think the SCAR will be in the game. I think i saw the M16A3 in one of the videos.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC) I am pretty sure the scar is in the game the game footage shows it being fired.<br />
:Why are there very few civilian weapons in zombie games? If I was in a zombie apocolypse I would be carrying a bolt action rifle and a revolver, with no heavy military hardware other than my father's M4-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:12, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Must be from all the Military Outposts. Valve said that one of the Levels would be where the Virus Didn't really hit. I guess it would be full of Soldiers in there.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I wouldn't even bother with military guns. All in all, my own stuff is way better than MilSpec-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 03:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Also, why would they put an AKM in the game? 7.62x39 is sorta hard to get in large quantities-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 19:10, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::You're starting to talk about logic in video games. Let me rephrase that, you're starting to talk about logic involving zombies in a video game, where a shotgun blast to the face of one of your survivor friends won't kill them. You gotta take everything with a grain of salt. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 20:34, 16 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Logic can work with video games. It just depends on what kind of Video Game you are playing or talking about.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:35, 16 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
== M4? ==<br />
<br />
The weapons list has the M-16, but I've got an XBox magazine with a multi-page preview of L4D2 and several images of the characters holding an M4 with a 10" barrel. That could be added to the list as well if someone could find a decent screencap.<br />
<br />
--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 09:42, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
: I'm getting it the day it comes out (I preordered it) so I'll let you know if there is an M4 or if it's an M16 after I play it for a little while-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:50, 25 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::M4s? i didn't see any M4s in the gameplay videos.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:20, 16 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
The rifles in game are the FN SCAR L, The M16 from Left 4 Dead, the AKM, The G3, and the Ruger Mini-14. The M4 is like the MP5 and SW MP10 in the first game. they sort of appear as filler in concept art.<br />
<br />
== Mounted Gun ==<br />
<br />
Here's a picture of a mounted gun in a supposedly leaked video (can find it http://www.gametrailers.com/video/leaked-zombie-left-4-dead/58013). I think it's a .50 cal, but the bore diamater seems pretty big to me.<br />
<br />
[[Image:L4d2_mounted_gun.JPG]]<br />
<br />
And yes, my picture sucks. I would've gotten rid of the video paused on the top left but got lazy.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:00, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Of course it's an M2.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Are screenshots considerd copyrighted? ==<br />
<br />
There is a bunch of screenshots for this game, but I do not know if screenshots are considered copyrighted or something we could get in trouble for. If they are not then I could put some images to match the firearms. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 02:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guns in the German only version ==<br />
<br />
The german version of the game is going to feature 3 guns from Counter strike: source.[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4blsnyDYGvo&feature=player_embedded]. Should this be added? [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]<br />
<br />
== The Demo is OUT ==<br />
Assuming, of course, that one pre-ordered. Having played through it six times, I've encountered every firearm the demo gives you access to, and have updated the page accordingly. The biggest surprise is the SCAR-L, with a 60 round magazine and three shot burst! The biggest letdown is the Desert Eagle, which, while useful for killing common infected, is nearly useless against the rarer infected (it took 4 shots to kill a smoker, when a shotgun takes 1). <br />
Other interesting items, and if someone wants to add these to the weapons list, feel free:<br />
Boomer Bile: There is a container, made of glass, containing boomer bile. When thrown, it basically acts like a pipebomb, except it doesn't hurt the zombies at all.<br />
Machete: The classic zombie killing weapon makes an appearance, and is a near-guaranteed one hit kill on any common infected. Also, it swings fairly fast, much like the<br />
Nighstick: Swinging fairly fast, it kills common zombies in a blow or two, and knocks some back, much like the<br />
Frying Pan: Yes, you too can kill zombies with cast iron cookware. Does about the same damage as the other melee weapons, leaving us with the<br />
Electric Guitar: Reminiscent of a Les-Paul design with a double-cutaway and a headstock that I can't quite place. Kills most common zombies in the first hit, and makes a pretty cool noise!<br />
Adrenaline: A new item that can take the place of the painkillers of the last game. When taken, seems to make character a bit faster. May have other effects.<br />
Shock Paddles: A new item that replaces your medpack (yes, I know). It brings back downed members from the dead. Haven't used it, but did pick it up.<br />
Well, that's about it. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:05, 28 October 2009 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Left_4_Dead_2&diff=197923Left 4 Dead 22009-10-28T04:51:16Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* FN SCAR-L */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{incompletepage}}<br />
[[Image:Left_4_Dead_2.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Left 4 Dead 2]]<br />
<br />
Left 4 Dead 2 is the direct sequel to the Co-op Game, Left 4 Dead. These were the weapons seen (albeit partially unfinished) in the E3 Gameplay Showcase.<br />
<br />
= Pistols =<br />
<br />
== [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG P226]] ==<br />
<br />
A SIG P226 is now the standard handgun for the Survivors. The pistol is completely stainless with could mean that it was based off the SIG Sauer P226 Elite Stainless, although that model features a beaver tail grip while the pistol in the game does not. The factory sights have been replaced to unkown custom type sights. It's equipped with an underbarrel tactical flashlight. Magazine capacity of 15 rounds.<br />
<br />
[[Image:SigP226.jpg|330px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
== [[Glock 19]] ==<br />
<br />
A Glock model is seen used as the second handgun for dual wielding, judging by the size of the magazine when counted on, it's a Glock 19. It does not feature the flashlight at the moment. Magazine capacity is also 15 rounds.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Glock19pistol.jpg|350px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
== [[Desert Eagle]] ==<br />
<br />
A Very Powerful Handgun. Based on footage seen at PAX 2009, it seems that the Magnum can be obtained in safe rooms and in other parts of levels. It seems to hold 8 rounds even though it is modeld after the .50 caliber version. It has more recoil and a slower rate of fire but has much more power than the standerd pistols. This weapon usalyy kills kills common infected with a single shot and if it dosent it ends up either knocking it back or down. It also has greater accuracy. You can not dual weild the magnum :( <br />
<br />
[[Image:DesertEagle50AE.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50 AE Chrome Silver]]<br />
<br />
= Shotguns =<br />
<br />
==Benelli M4 Super 90==<br />
The shotgun from the first game another Second Tier weapon, the Benelli M4 in-game has a 10-round magazine and a flashlight clipped to the barrel right in front of the handguard.<br />
<br />
Don't you mean the pump-shtgun from the first game? which was allerady on the page.<br />
<br />
== [[Remington 870]] ==<br />
<br />
A Remington 870 Marine Magnum is seen with a Chrome finish. It is speculated that it's a direct clone of the previous shotgun. It has a vent rib and a ghost ring sight.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Remington870MarineMagnum.jpg|550px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
== [[Benelli M Series Super 90 Shotguns#Benelli M4|Benelli M1014]] ==<br />
The combat shotgun from the first game seems to be reintroduced in Left 4 Dead Two. It can be seen in the latest demo video showing the swamp campaign.<br />
<br />
Why is this gun here twice? The M4 Super 90 is basically the same thing, so unless they has the USMC issue M1014 and a civilian M4 having it on this page twice is a little redundant.<br />
<br />
Both are present in the demo I'm playing right now.<br />
<br />
== [[SPAS 12]] ==<br />
[[Image:Franchi-SPAS12.jpg|500px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
The SPAS 12 is featured as the resident Auto Shotgun and used by most of the characters in the E3 Gameplay footage. It carries 10 rounds and uses the same animations from the previous auto shotgun (likely placeholders). Unlike many games, it is fired semi-auto.<br />
<br />
Recent Gameplay footage has shown that it can also fire incendiary rounds.<br />
<br />
= SMGs =<br />
<br />
== [[MAC-10]] ==<br />
[[Image:IngramMAC10.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
Seen fitted with the legendary Mitchell Werbell suppressor. It appears to have a flashlight attached to the surpressor with a hose clamp. In Demo footage it seems to be able to fire Incendiary type ammunition. It has a 50 round magazine, despite the fact the one used in the game looks no longer than a 30 round magazine.<br />
<br />
It acctauly has a 44 round magizine oddly...<br />
<br />
== IMI Uzi ==<br />
<br />
The [[Uzi]] from the first game. Seen in the swamp campaign at Nick's back.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Uzi.jpg|thumb|none|350px|IMI Uzi 9x19mm]]<br />
<br />
== MP5A3 ==<br />
[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|360px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
Was planned but unconfirmed.<br />
<br />
= Rifles =<br />
<br />
==[[Ruger Mini-14]]==<br />
<br />
The hunting rifle from the previous game is seen in the marsh level.<br />
Has same possibility as in Left 4 dead 1.<br />
<br />
== [[M16 rifle series|M-16]] ==<br />
The M-16 from the first game apears in Left 4 Dead 2. It can be seen in the demo video (located on IGN.com) showing the swamp campaign.<br />
<br />
== [[AK-47]] == <br />
<br />
An AK-47 is seen in the fuselage video. This is not an AKM. This weapon has the milled receiver of the Ak-47. In the demo, released for those who pre-ordered on 10/27/09 and for the public on 10/30/09, the Ak-47 has a 40 round mag, 10 less than the M16.<br />
[[Image:AK-47.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Type I AK-47, hybrid stamped/milled receiver 7.62x39mm]]<br />
<br />
== [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-L |FN SCAR-L]] ==<br />
[[Image:Scar_l-1.jpg|500px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
As of the demo, it appears as though the SCAR-L used in the game will be of the Coyote Brown variety. In the demo, it uses a 60 round magazine, and fires in a three-shot burst (although if you keep the trigger depressed, it will fire successive three-shot bursts without the need to pull the trigger again).<br />
<br />
== [[Heckler & Koch G3#H&K G3SG/1 |HK G3/SG1]] ==<br />
[[Image:H&KSG1.jpg|500px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
A HK G3/SG1 can be seen laying the floor boards on top of some scaffolding in the last gameplay video. It is likely to replace the Hunting Rifle from the previous game. It seems to carry a 30 round magazine, double than the previous hunting rifle and 10 more than what the usual real life weapon can hold.<br />
<br />
= Other =<br />
<br />
== [[M79 grenade launcher|M79 Grenade Launcher]] ==<br />
[[Image:M79-Grenade-Launcher.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M79 grenade launcher - 40mm]]<br />
<br />
This is seen in latest gameplay video and talked about in an interview with Chet Faliszek, project leader for Left 4 Dead 2.<br />
<br />
== [[Pipe Bomb]] ==<br />
The pipe bomb from the first game is reintroduced. Like in the first game the pipe bomb has part of a smoke alarm attached to it that beeps. The beep sound atracts the zombie to a explosive demise. Unlike the first game zombie dont just exploded into a cloud of blood, but are tossed up and around from the explosion.<br />
<br />
== [[Molotov Cocktail]] ==<br />
<br />
In one scene, a Molotov cocktail is shown. Likely re-introduced from the first game.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Video Game]]<br />
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Left_4_Dead_2&diff=197920Left 4 Dead 22009-10-28T04:44:40Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* HK G3/SG1 */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{incompletepage}}<br />
[[Image:Left_4_Dead_2.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Left 4 Dead 2]]<br />
<br />
Left 4 Dead 2 is the direct sequel to the Co-op Game, Left 4 Dead. These were the weapons seen (albeit partially unfinished) in the E3 Gameplay Showcase.<br />
<br />
= Pistols =<br />
<br />
== [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG P226]] ==<br />
<br />
A SIG P226 is now the standard handgun for the Survivors. The pistol is completely stainless with could mean that it was based off the SIG Sauer P226 Elite Stainless, although that model features a beaver tail grip while the pistol in the game does not. The factory sights have been replaced to unkown custom type sights. It's equipped with an underbarrel tactical flashlight. Magazine capacity of 15 rounds.<br />
<br />
[[Image:SigP226.jpg|330px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
== [[Glock 19]] ==<br />
<br />
A Glock model is seen used as the second handgun for dual wielding, judging by the size of the magazine when counted on, it's a Glock 19. It does not feature the flashlight at the moment. Magazine capacity is also 15 rounds.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Glock19pistol.jpg|350px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
== [[Desert Eagle]] ==<br />
<br />
A Very Powerful Handgun. Based on footage seen at PAX 2009, it seems that the Magnum can be obtained in safe rooms and in other parts of levels. It seems to hold 8 rounds even though it is modeld after the .50 caliber version. It has more recoil and a slower rate of fire but has much more power than the standerd pistols. This weapon usalyy kills kills common infected with a single shot and if it dosent it ends up either knocking it back or down. It also has greater accuracy. You can not dual weild the magnum :( <br />
<br />
[[Image:DesertEagle50AE.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50 AE Chrome Silver]]<br />
<br />
= Shotguns =<br />
<br />
==Benelli M4 Super 90==<br />
The shotgun from the first game another Second Tier weapon, the Benelli M4 in-game has a 10-round magazine and a flashlight clipped to the barrel right in front of the handguard.<br />
<br />
Don't you mean the pump-shtgun from the first game? which was allerady on the page.<br />
<br />
== [[Remington 870]] ==<br />
<br />
A Remington 870 Marine Magnum is seen with a Chrome finish. It is speculated that it's a direct clone of the previous shotgun. It has a vent rib and a ghost ring sight.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Remington870MarineMagnum.jpg|550px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
== [[Benelli M Series Super 90 Shotguns#Benelli M4|Benelli M1014]] ==<br />
The combat shotgun from the first game seems to be reintroduced in Left 4 Dead Two. It can be seen in the latest demo video showing the swamp campaign.<br />
<br />
Why is this gun here twice? The M4 Super 90 is basically the same thing, so unless they has the USMC issue M1014 and a civilian M4 having it on this page twice is a little redundant.<br />
<br />
Both are present in the demo I'm playing right now.<br />
<br />
== [[SPAS 12]] ==<br />
[[Image:Franchi-SPAS12.jpg|500px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
The SPAS 12 is featured as the resident Auto Shotgun and used by most of the characters in the E3 Gameplay footage. It carries 10 rounds and uses the same animations from the previous auto shotgun (likely placeholders). Unlike many games, it is fired semi-auto.<br />
<br />
Recent Gameplay footage has shown that it can also fire incendiary rounds.<br />
<br />
= SMGs =<br />
<br />
== [[MAC-10]] ==<br />
[[Image:IngramMAC10.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
Seen fitted with the legendary Mitchell Werbell suppressor. It appears to have a flashlight attached to the surpressor with a hose clamp. In Demo footage it seems to be able to fire Incendiary type ammunition. It has a 50 round magazine, despite the fact the one used in the game looks no longer than a 30 round magazine.<br />
<br />
It acctauly has a 44 round magizine oddly...<br />
<br />
== IMI Uzi ==<br />
<br />
The [[Uzi]] from the first game. Seen in the swamp campaign at Nick's back.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Uzi.jpg|thumb|none|350px|IMI Uzi 9x19mm]]<br />
<br />
== MP5A3 ==<br />
[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|360px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
Was planned but unconfirmed.<br />
<br />
= Rifles =<br />
<br />
==[[Ruger Mini-14]]==<br />
<br />
The hunting rifle from the previous game is seen in the marsh level.<br />
Has same possibility as in Left 4 dead 1.<br />
<br />
== [[M16 rifle series|M-16]] ==<br />
The M-16 from the first game apears in Left 4 Dead 2. It can be seen in the demo video (located on IGN.com) showing the swamp campaign.<br />
<br />
== [[AK-47]] == <br />
<br />
An AK-47 is seen in the fuselage video. This is not an AKM. This weapon has the milled receiver of the Ak-47. In the demo, released for those who pre-ordered on 10/27/09 and for the public on 10/30/09, the Ak-47 has a 40 round mag, 10 less than the M16.<br />
[[Image:AK-47.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Type I AK-47, hybrid stamped/milled receiver 7.62x39mm]]<br />
<br />
== [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-L |FN SCAR-L]] ==<br />
[[Image:Scar_l-1.jpg|500px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
Seen in E3 gameplay video. It fires from a 50 round magazine which are not make believe, they are an aftermarket product.<br />
<br />
== [[Heckler & Koch G3#H&K G3SG/1 |HK G3/SG1]] ==<br />
[[Image:H&KSG1.jpg|500px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
A HK G3/SG1 can be seen laying the floor boards on top of some scaffolding in the last gameplay video. It is likely to replace the Hunting Rifle from the previous game. It seems to carry a 30 round magazine, double than the previous hunting rifle and 10 more than what the usual real life weapon can hold.<br />
<br />
= Other =<br />
<br />
== [[M79 grenade launcher|M79 Grenade Launcher]] ==<br />
[[Image:M79-Grenade-Launcher.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M79 grenade launcher - 40mm]]<br />
<br />
This is seen in latest gameplay video and talked about in an interview with Chet Faliszek, project leader for Left 4 Dead 2.<br />
<br />
== [[Pipe Bomb]] ==<br />
The pipe bomb from the first game is reintroduced. Like in the first game the pipe bomb has part of a smoke alarm attached to it that beeps. The beep sound atracts the zombie to a explosive demise. Unlike the first game zombie dont just exploded into a cloud of blood, but are tossed up and around from the explosion.<br />
<br />
== [[Molotov Cocktail]] ==<br />
<br />
In one scene, a Molotov cocktail is shown. Likely re-introduced from the first game.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Video Game]]<br />
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Left_4_Dead_2&diff=197917Left 4 Dead 22009-10-28T04:30:52Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Benelli M1014 */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{incompletepage}}<br />
[[Image:Left_4_Dead_2.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Left 4 Dead 2]]<br />
<br />
Left 4 Dead 2 is the direct sequel to the Co-op Game, Left 4 Dead. These were the weapons seen (albeit partially unfinished) in the E3 Gameplay Showcase.<br />
<br />
= Pistols =<br />
<br />
== [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG P226]] ==<br />
<br />
A SIG P226 is now the standard handgun for the Survivors. The pistol is completely stainless with could mean that it was based off the SIG Sauer P226 Elite Stainless, although that model features a beaver tail grip while the pistol in the game does not. The factory sights have been replaced to unkown custom type sights. It's equipped with an underbarrel tactical flashlight. Magazine capacity of 15 rounds.<br />
<br />
[[Image:SigP226.jpg|330px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
== [[Glock 19]] ==<br />
<br />
A Glock model is seen used as the second handgun for dual wielding, judging by the size of the magazine when counted on, it's a Glock 19. It does not feature the flashlight at the moment. Magazine capacity is also 15 rounds.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Glock19pistol.jpg|350px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
== [[Desert Eagle]] ==<br />
<br />
A Very Powerful Handgun. Based on footage seen at PAX 2009, it seems that the Magnum can be obtained in safe rooms and in other parts of levels. It seems to hold 8 rounds even though it is modeld after the .50 caliber version. It has more recoil and a slower rate of fire but has much more power than the standerd pistols. This weapon usalyy kills kills common infected with a single shot and if it dosent it ends up either knocking it back or down. It also has greater accuracy. You can not dual weild the magnum :( <br />
<br />
[[Image:DesertEagle50AE.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50 AE Chrome Silver]]<br />
<br />
= Shotguns =<br />
<br />
==Benelli M4 Super 90==<br />
The shotgun from the first game another Second Tier weapon, the Benelli M4 in-game has a 10-round magazine and a flashlight clipped to the barrel right in front of the handguard.<br />
<br />
Don't you mean the pump-shtgun from the first game? which was allerady on the page.<br />
<br />
== [[Remington 870]] ==<br />
<br />
A Remington 870 Marine Magnum is seen with a Chrome finish. It is speculated that it's a direct clone of the previous shotgun. It has a vent rib and a ghost ring sight.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Remington870MarineMagnum.jpg|550px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
== [[Benelli M Series Super 90 Shotguns#Benelli M4|Benelli M1014]] ==<br />
The combat shotgun from the first game seems to be reintroduced in Left 4 Dead Two. It can be seen in the latest demo video showing the swamp campaign.<br />
<br />
Why is this gun here twice? The M4 Super 90 is basically the same thing, so unless they has the USMC issue M1014 and a civilian M4 having it on this page twice is a little redundant.<br />
<br />
Both are present in the demo I'm playing right now.<br />
<br />
== [[SPAS 12]] ==<br />
[[Image:Franchi-SPAS12.jpg|500px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
The SPAS 12 is featured as the resident Auto Shotgun and used by most of the characters in the E3 Gameplay footage. It carries 10 rounds and uses the same animations from the previous auto shotgun (likely placeholders). Unlike many games, it is fired semi-auto.<br />
<br />
Recent Gameplay footage has shown that it can also fire incendiary rounds.<br />
<br />
= SMGs =<br />
<br />
== [[MAC-10]] ==<br />
[[Image:IngramMAC10.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
Seen fitted with the legendary Mitchell Werbell suppressor. It appears to have a flashlight attached to the surpressor with a hose clamp. In Demo footage it seems to be able to fire Incendiary type ammunition. It has a 50 round magazine, despite the fact the one used in the game looks no longer than a 30 round magazine.<br />
<br />
It acctauly has a 44 round magizine oddly...<br />
<br />
== IMI Uzi ==<br />
<br />
The [[Uzi]] from the first game. Seen in the swamp campaign at Nick's back.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Uzi.jpg|thumb|none|350px|IMI Uzi 9x19mm]]<br />
<br />
== MP5A3 ==<br />
[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|360px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
Was planned but unconfirmed.<br />
<br />
= Rifles =<br />
<br />
==[[Ruger Mini-14]]==<br />
<br />
The hunting rifle from the previous game is seen in the marsh level.<br />
Has same possibility as in Left 4 dead 1.<br />
<br />
== [[M16 rifle series|M-16]] ==<br />
The M-16 from the first game apears in Left 4 Dead 2. It can be seen in the demo video (located on IGN.com) showing the swamp campaign.<br />
<br />
== [[AK-47]] == <br />
<br />
An AK-47 is seen in the fuselage video. This is not an AKM. This weapon has the milled receiver of the Ak-47. In the demo, released for those who pre-ordered on 10/27/09 and for the public on 10/30/09, the Ak-47 has a 40 round mag, 10 less than the M16.<br />
[[Image:AK-47.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Type I AK-47, hybrid stamped/milled receiver 7.62x39mm]]<br />
<br />
== [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-L |FN SCAR-L]] ==<br />
[[Image:Scar_l-1.jpg|500px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
Seen in E3 gameplay video. It fires from a 50 round magazine which are not make believe, they are an aftermarket product.<br />
<br />
== [[Heckler & Koch G3#H&K G3SG/1 |HK G3/SG1]] ==<br />
[[Image:H&KSG1.jpg|500px|thumb|none]]<br />
<br />
A HK G3/SG1 can be seen laying the floor boards on top of some scaffolding in the last gameplay video. It is likely to replace the Hunting Rifle from the previous game. It seems to carry a 30 round magazine, double than the previous hunting rifle and 10 more than what the usual real life weapon can hold. Ironically, the game uses a 10 round PSG-1 mag model.<br />
<br />
= Other =<br />
<br />
== [[M79 grenade launcher|M79 Grenade Launcher]] ==<br />
[[Image:M79-Grenade-Launcher.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M79 grenade launcher - 40mm]]<br />
<br />
This is seen in latest gameplay video and talked about in an interview with Chet Faliszek, project leader for Left 4 Dead 2.<br />
<br />
== [[Pipe Bomb]] ==<br />
The pipe bomb from the first game is reintroduced. Like in the first game the pipe bomb has part of a smoke alarm attached to it that beeps. The beep sound atracts the zombie to a explosive demise. Unlike the first game zombie dont just exploded into a cloud of blood, but are tossed up and around from the explosion.<br />
<br />
== [[Molotov Cocktail]] ==<br />
<br />
In one scene, a Molotov cocktail is shown. Likely re-introduced from the first game.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Video Game]]<br />
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Black_Hawk_Down&diff=195019Talk:Black Hawk Down2009-10-21T05:40:40Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Flashlight Attachment Help */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Weapon used by delta force ==<br />
<br />
M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15<br />
<br />
: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4<br />
<br />
Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?<br />
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.<br />
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mistake? ==<br />
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.<br />
<br />
== Mike Durant's Book ==<br />
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.<br />
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them). <br />
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The Hand ==<br />
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.<br />
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Flashlight Attachment Help==<br />
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]<br />
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]<br />
<br />
::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.<br />
<br />
:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==M4 in 1994?==<br />
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?<br />
<br />
:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==<br />
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?<br />
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==<br />
<br />
Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.<br />
<br />
--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==<br />
<br />
The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Black_Hawk_Down&diff=195018Talk:Black Hawk Down2009-10-21T05:40:23Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Flashlight Attachment Help */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Weapon used by delta force ==<br />
<br />
M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15<br />
<br />
: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4<br />
<br />
Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?<br />
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.<br />
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mistake? ==<br />
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.<br />
<br />
== Mike Durant's Book ==<br />
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.<br />
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them). <br />
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The Hand ==<br />
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.<br />
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Flashlight Attachment Help==<br />
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]<br />
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]<br />
<br />
::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.<br />
<br />
:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.<br />
<br />
==M4 in 1994?==<br />
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?<br />
<br />
:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==<br />
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?<br />
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==<br />
<br />
Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.<br />
<br />
--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==<br />
<br />
The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Black_Hawk_Down&diff=195017Talk:Black Hawk Down2009-10-21T05:38:02Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Mistake? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Weapon used by delta force ==<br />
<br />
M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15<br />
<br />
: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4<br />
<br />
Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?<br />
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.<br />
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mistake? ==<br />
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.<br />
<br />
== Mike Durant's Book ==<br />
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.<br />
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them). <br />
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The Hand ==<br />
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.<br />
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Flashlight Attachment Help==<br />
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]<br />
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]<br />
<br />
::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.<br />
<br />
==M4 in 1994?==<br />
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?<br />
<br />
:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==<br />
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]<br />
<br />
:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|<span style="color: gray; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#D3D3D3">'''B'''</font><font color="#A9A9A9">'''le'''</font><font color="#808080">'''mo'''</font></span>]] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''TALK'''</font>]]</sup></small> • <sub><small> [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''CONTRIBUTIONS'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small>[[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">'''EMAIL'''</font>]]</small></sub> • <sub><small><font color="#A9A9A9"><span style="font-weight: light;" title="By the time you finish reading this hidden message, twelve nuclear warheads will have been launched toward your location. Thank you and have a nice day.">'''MESSAGE'''</span></font></small></sub>'' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?<br />
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==<br />
<br />
Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.<br />
<br />
--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==<br />
<br />
The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Black_Hawk_Down&diff=146977Talk:Black Hawk Down2009-07-14T00:44:34Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Mike Durant's Book */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Weapon used by delta force ==<br />
<br />
M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15<br />
<br />
: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4<br />
<br />
Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?<br />
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.<br />
<br />
== Mistake? ==<br />
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mike Durant's Book ==<br />
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.<br />
: To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The Hand ==<br />
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Black_Hawk_Down&diff=146976Talk:Black Hawk Down2009-07-14T00:44:05Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Mike Durant's Book */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Weapon used by delta force ==<br />
<br />
M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15<br />
<br />
: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4<br />
<br />
Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?<br />
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.<br />
<br />
== Mistake? ==<br />
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mike Durant's Book ==<br />
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.<br />
: To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. :<br />
<br />
== The Hand ==<br />
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Black_Hawk_Down&diff=146973Talk:Black Hawk Down2009-07-14T00:42:13Z<p>Asmkillr323: /* Mistake? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Weapon used by delta force ==<br />
<br />
M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15<br />
<br />
: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4<br />
<br />
Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?<br />
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.<br />
<br />
== Mistake? ==<br />
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]<br />
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]<br />
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mike Durant's Book ==<br />
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.<br />
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== The Hand ==<br />
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)<br />
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)</div>Asmkillr323