Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Killing Floor 2

2015-11-28T07:59:35Z

Anarchy66660: /* Just putting these here */

== Exact model of Beretta 92? ==

Gameplay video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LeDvDdadxQ

Could somebody determine what Beretta is used there? Is it M9A1 like in the first game? At first I even thought that the trigger guard is rounded, indicating it's not F/FS, but then I realized that it was the flashlight that hid the guard's shape.

The presence of the rail indicates that it's not usual 92F/FS, but it lacks checkered back strap: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36389920/ShareX/2015-04/2015-04-09_00-58-18.jpg

UPD: probably it's 92 Compact With Rail, a shortened M9A1 version.

First off, please put your name on these, and second, I'm fairly sure it's a M9A1 with a Brigadier-style barrel. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 00:42 10 April 2015 (EST).

:I got it. Are you sure it's a M9A1? It has got the usual trigger guard from 92FS/M9 and it looks short. --[[User:Blondie|Blondie]] ([[User talk:Blondie|talk]]) 14:26, 10 April 2015 (EDT)

Fairly certain it is a M9A1. The trigger guard is the same as a normal M9A1, just hard to see courtesy of the tac-light mounted on the front rail. As for it looking short, it's probably been modeled with a Brigadier-style barrel, which are usually flush with the front of the slide. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 19:05, 10 April 2015 (EST).

:I respect your opinion, but. First, weapon icon shows M9-style trigger guard: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36389920/ShareX/2015-04/2015-04-11_02-32-30.png
:Second, I'm also fairly certain that it's thin M9 trigger guard on the actual in-game model: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36389920/ShareX/2015-04/2015-04-11_02-36-43.jpg
:If you look closely, flashlight doesn't cover trigger guard that much to distort its shape.
:Anyway, it's not the proof that the gun is not M9A1, I also added it in article as M9A1 as the most possible variant. We'll have to wait for the release to tell for sure. :3
:And the gun lacks M9A1 checkered back strap too.--[[User:Blondie|Blondie]] ([[User talk:Blondie|talk]]) 19:46, 10 April 2015 (EDT)

:: First off, I don't believe we allow the weapon's icon to enter into discussion of what the actual player-held weapon is (as many times in games they don't match up with each other), so whatever the icon is is irrelevant in this instance. Next, it should be noted that, even by this stage with HD graphics, video game weapons can't and likely won't be able to exactly precisely emulate a real world firearm 100%, for a number of reasons, and therefore it's possible we can't and won't ever get a 'exact' model' ID. We often don't get 'exact IDs' for films or TV shows that actually have real weapons and not renderings, again, for a number of reasons. Omission or switching of features, like the lack of a backstrap checkering, trigger guard shape, slide design etc, definitely shouldn't be so scrutinized in a video game, especially when we're talking pre-release. Such details might still remain to be finalized, and otherwise could likely be mere oversights and/or liberties taken on the weapon's look by the game's artists. Since we have such a mismatch of details - rail and front and rear slide serrations of M9A1, M9/92FS trigger guard, the one image and images on the main page seem to have a [[Beretta 92FS Brigadier|Brigadier]] slide while the other here on the talk page has an M9A1 slide, and flush barrel with the slide, no backstrap checkering - We simply won't be able to make an exact ID since there's no Beretta that matches that exact configuration from the factory as far as I know. Not to sound snobby, but again, I think this is being over-thought a bit. If this were a real weapon, it might be worthy of speculating, as they would have be physical changes to an actual weapon, but a rendering in a video game? Especially for a game that hasn't even released yet? Bah. I'd go about listing it as we would on film/TV pages - List it as what it matches best (in this case, an M9A1) and note all the features and their particular distinctions/differences as part of the section's writeup and leave it at that for the time being. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:26, 10 April 2015 (EDT)

::: Yeah, I think we should leave it to be listed at M9A1 and note all these small discrepancies. But there was a moment when I thought that the gun was not M9A1 (indicated by the rail) with wrong backstrap checkering, trigger guard shape, slide design, but M9/92FS with wrong presence of the rail, but correct M9/92FS features in all other respects.--[[User:Blondie|Blondie]] ([[User talk:Blondie|talk]]) 10:52, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

== PaperCake's minor edits ==

Why remove useful info? Most of PaperCake's small corrections are a nice touch, but

1. Why replace "Performing an ammo check" to "he player peers at the M9A1's magazine before loading it in", while in reality it's an actual ammo check, not a usual reloading. A unique animation is played when played tries to reload a gun with already full magazine. This feature is present in many Tripwire projects and it is one of their trade marks. I think it's worth mentioning, not a lot of games have got such details.

2. Why remove notes about M9A1? While I won't argue it should be listed as M9A1, I added several comparisons with the same gun from the first game and with real M9A1. I always enjoyed such things when I was reading IMFDB before.

3. Why remove explanation about "SA80" part in L85A2 in-game name? As I recall, IMFDB always had a policy to mention wrong or redundant in-game gun names. I just tried to be in keeping with local standards of writing, which encourage noticing and explaining small details and drawbacks.

4. Why add "A player begins to reload his L85A2" when it's not a reloading animation, but draw animation?

5. Why remove explanation that Colt 9mm SMG is not a rifle, but a submachinegun. I've read a '''lot''' of articles here and the IMFDB always had a policy to explain wrong assigned weapon class in the game, especially with AKS-74U or 9mm AR-15 derivatives.

I don't mind the style, but minor corrections shouldn't tear out so much useful info. Since I'm a new guy, and PaperCake seems to have been here quite long time, I don't want to just undo his changes, but I think we should discuss it and restore some info.--[[User:Blondie|Blondie]] ([[User talk:Blondie|talk]]) 11:22, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

:Well, SA80 is the name of the weapon platform (like AR-15) not the actual name of the gun, so removing it makes sense.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:14, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

== Better screenshots ==

A lot of the screenshots in this entry aren't very good, the HUD cluttering up screenshots, a lack of screenshots or poorly taken screenshots. Imma put in some new ones, let's just hope IMFDB doesn't crap it self when i do.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:16, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

== L85A2 actually an A1? ==

So there was something i've noticed. The charging handle on the A2 has that little knob on it instead of... well whatever shape it is on the A2. Would that mean the L85 is actually an A1 not an A2? I've heard that there were a few L85A2 made with that knob shape, but only, well, a few.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:44, 25 October 2015 (EDT)
:But it has the magazine-release fencing of the A2. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 15:52, 26 November 2015 (EST)
::Wait, this is called an A1 but it has the fencing, now I'm really confused. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 16:05, 26 November 2015 (EST) [[File:L85A1 left side.jpg|thumb|none|400px|L85A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

== Just putting these here ==

[[File:KF2 Model1858render.jpg|none|600px|thumb|]]
[[File:KF2 M1911A1render.jpg|none|600px|thumb|]]
[[File:KF2 DesertEaglerender.jpg|none|600px|thumb|]]
[[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 15:31, 20 November 2015 (EST)

Should i put them up on the page? I was thinking about doing it, but im not sure.
Also, that 1911 skin is damn ugly, hopefully someone will make a new less crap texture for it.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:51, 20 November 2015 (EST)

[[File:KF2 Zed Collector render.jpg|none|600px|thumb|Zed Collector]]
Here's the other revolver which is a S&W Model 500 I'm fairly sure.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:58, 20 November 2015 (EST)
:Yes it is, you beat me to uploading that pic. :P. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 16:13, 20 November 2015 (EST)
::Does that barrel have any name? Like the real one, "Performance Center" is stamped on it.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:19, 20 November 2015 (EST)
:::It says "925 of 1000 T&W 500 Zed Collector". [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 16:24, 20 November 2015 (EST)
::::have you looked at the other side?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:35, 20 November 2015 (EST)
:::::Yeah, it says Performance Center, It's Smith & Wesson's Performance Center that makes the barrel. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 17:29, 20 November 2015 (EST)
::::::Yeah, okey.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:14, 20 November 2015 (EST)
::::::: The T&W 500 is base off of the S&W 500 Bone Collector http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/zoom_lg/170338_01_lg.jpg if anyone didn't catch it.--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] ([[User talk:Anarchy66660|talk]]) 02:59, 28 November 2015 (EST)

== Yeah.... ==

[http://killingfloor2.com/Zedconomy/ This has a tendency to make people unhappy...]

Oh Great, it's PAYDAY 2's Crimefest fireball all over again. I'm certain I can see how this goes down. The community threatens the dev and saying they're gonna leave, make a big hissyfit like a bunch of whiny babies and end up accomplishing nothing but make the Killing Floor subreddit look very pissy. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 18:09, 23 November 2015 (EST)
:There's a fairly big difference however, and that's the fact that these skins doesn't affect stats, unlike the skins in Payday 2. On top of that the skins aren't ugly as fuck (atleast some of them aren't) and the people who made the skins gets compensated for the work they've done (no word on how much however)
:I'm probably gonna drop some cash on skins as the awful person i am.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 20:37, 23 November 2015 (EST)

== Juicy news ==

http://www.pcgamer.com/killing-floor-2-patriarch-boss-reveal/

Yep, they're adding the patriarch, I identified the minigun on his arm could be a GAU-19 from my best guess. Also, will be doing an edit soon on adding the STG-44's found on Hans Volter, once I get images up into place.

--[[User:Lancer|Lancer]] ([[User talk:Lancer|talk]]) 00:31, 26 November 2015 (EST)

:More guns is always fun! As for the boss, I always thought Killing Floor was fun up until the boss.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 11:42, 26 November 2015 (EST)
::Be nice if they made a setting where you don't have to fight a boss. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 15:09, 26 November 2015 (EST)
Yeah they mentioned adding a horde mode to KF2 where it's practically endless specimens. Thank god with bosses though in Killing Floor 2, we don't have to take on multiple bosses, Killing Floor 1's subway objective map made you fight two Patriarchs, it'd be bloody horrible though to face Hans '''and''' the Patriarch though. But I better stop talking before I give them ideas.

As for the Patriarch's wrist-gun, does anyone know if it'll fire rockets, I have a feeling tripwire probably gave him some new secret attack instead or just buffed the hell out of his GAU, either way, i'll be waiting and seeing.
--[[User:Lancer|Lancer]] ([[User talk:Lancer|talk]]) 16:43, 26 November 2015 (EST)
:While this is just a theory, i think the minigun might (don't quote me on this) shoot bullets--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:40, 26 November 2015 (EST)
::No he means a rocket launcher ''along side'' his GAU-19. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 19:40, 27 November 2015 (EST)

Talk:Hawaii Five-0 (2010) - Season 5

2014-12-30T08:14:34Z

Anarchy66660: /* Grover's 1911 */

==Unknown==
A Navy SEAL loads up his pistol at the start of "Ka Makuakane" (S05E02).
[[File:H50S5E02 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The pistol being loaded up.]]
[[File:H50S5E02 101.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
Please help ID this pistol. It's possible that it's a Beretta, but the rail doesn't seem to match anything familiar. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 03:13, 6 October 2014 (EDT)

:I think its just a railed SIG isn't it? I can't tell if it is a P226 or P220 from that shot though. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:20, 6 October 2014 (EDT)
::Second shot is of a Beretta, you can tell by the hammer having a hole in it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 00:06, 8 October 2014 (EDT)

Got this too. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 01:42, 15 December 2014 (EST)
:That's just his usual Kimber. --[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 19:08, 15 December 2014 (EST)
::Moving it. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 20:05, 28 December 2014 (EST)

== Grover's 1911 ==

Are there any clearer shots of Grover's 1911, as this is not a TRP Operator:[[File:H50S5E01 02.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]If you look at the front of the pistol you can see that it has a normal 1911 length frame rather than the full length frame of the Operator he has previously used. It could be the Light Rail model, but from the minimal marking on this side of the slide I would be more inclined to say that it is a [[Kimber Warrior]]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:30, 6 October 2014 (EDT)
:That's also a Streamlight TLR-2 vs the TLR-1 he had last season. Although in 5.02 he had no light on his weapon.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 00:06, 8 October 2014 (EDT)
The light rail transition is probably the biggest give away, as the dust cover is slanted -- not flat. This is what would have me inclined to think that this is infact a Kimber Warrior as well. I personally would have gone with a TRP though ;)--[[User:Gwhysow|Gwhysow]] ([[User talk:Gwhysow|talk]]) 16:29, 16 November 2014 (EST)

I believe Grover's 1911 is a Kimber Tactical Entry II http://combatrifle.net/kimber/kimber_tactical_entry_II-3.jpg you can see a good shot of it in episode 3 when he takes down a suspect.--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] ([[User talk:Anarchy66660|talk]]) 03:10, 30 December 2014 (EST)

==FN Mark 13==
Is this in service with the US? I know the [[M203 grenade launcher|M-203]] and [[Heckler & Koch M320|M-320]] are but wasn't aware this was issued to any units. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 05:32, 7 October 2014 (EDT)
:I've never seen a photo of them using it, but I am pretty sure that USSOCOM did get some. After all, the term "MK 13" is just the USSOCOM designation for the FN40GL. I highly doubt they got many though or still use them, as they mainly ended up getting the SCAR-H and I believe that the MK 13 is specifically the FN40GL-L (the version for the SCAR-L). Granted they could get new trigger adapters and fit them to their SCAR-Hs, but these are more DMR weapons so there wouldn't be much point. On a related note, anybody else notice how massively long those magazine are relative to the bottom of the grenade launcher? To me they look like they could be MWG 40 round mags, but is hard to tell in that lighting. If not, could also be that they are normal 30 round mags that for some reason have gotten stuck in the trigger bridge for the grenade launcher rather than the magazine well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:19, 7 October 2014 (EDT)

== Grover's SIG ==

Grover's SIG-Sauer looks more like the SIG-Sauer P226 E2 that McGarrett used in season 1 --[[User:Gunfan2818|Gunfan2818]] ([[User talk:Gunfan2818|talk]])
[[Image:Sig Sauer P226 E2 08.jpg|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer P226 E2 - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:H50S5E03 113.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lou Grover appears to hold a SIG-Sauer in "Kanalu Hope Loa" (S5E03).]]
[[Image:Hawaii Five0SigPistol.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McGarrett P226 E2 for comparison.]]
:It is missing the "E2" markings, so it definitely isn't that. It could still be a regular P226R or a "Navy", however i do not think it is. Even though there is a rail mounted flashlight attached, from that cap I'm not sure that the original pistol had a rail. If you look at the side of the frame on a railed SIG, the top of it where it meets the slide and the bottom edge above the rail are totally parallel. In this cap they are not parallel, instead the bottom edge slopes upwards like on an un-railed P226. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 21:22, 12 October 2014 (EDT)
::I personally don't see any difference between the slide/frame of a railed and non-railed P226 and I highly doubt they went through the trouble of mounting an X300 on a non-railed P226 when they have a plethora of railed P226's in their collection. I'm thinking this was a continuity error and McGarrett's P226 Navy wound up being given to Grover, especially since the SIG in McGarrett's holster during that scene is the Elite that sometimes gets swapped out for the Navy.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 18:53, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:::Normally, if it was P226 with a railed frame it should be the case that the line where the slide and the frame join should be totally parallel to the top of the the mount of the X300. In the above cap this is not the case, with the front of the mount being closer to the slide than at the back which suggests that the part of the frame it is attached to is sloped like on the old, non-railed P226. Granted it could be something else like a weird trick of the camera, the torch not being mounted correctly, or the torch/pistol/both being a replica of some sort that is slightly off. Just judging from this one cap though, that pistol doesn't look right to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:27, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
::::That could be due to the X300 being set up to mount using the rail lock system vs the standard system. It puts pressure on the rail that tilts the front end of the light upward depending on how tightly the screw is screwed in.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 19:54, 13 October 2014 (EDT)

==416s?==

Are those really 416s? I can't seem to tell [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 08:13, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:I don't think so, the rail doesn't look high enough, the gas block isn't exposed, and there is no step on the receiver rail at the rear. To me, it also looks like these "HK416s" are the exact same gun as the "Mark 18 Mod 0s" listed beneath. My guess is that they are older model Daniel Defence Mk 18s but would need a better shot of the back of the rail to tell for sure (I think this is what the guns ID's as 416s are in the previous season as well). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:43, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
::I'm fairly certain those rails are Daniel Defense Mk18's, the front of Kono's rifle matches it almost exactly.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 18:56, 13 October 2014 (EDT)

Also, I don't think Grover's P226 is a regular one, since it has a rail and light attached [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:57, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:Technically it is, as all but 3 of the 4 X-Five models have rails. But per site standards (Annoying IMO, but I understand) it should be labelled as a P226R.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 09:31, 14 October 2014 (EDT)

== Single Action Army ==

The rear and front sights on the close-up of the SAA (S5E09) make me think it's a Ruger Blackhawk Stainless, not an SAA or clone --[[User:Ruzhyo|Ruzhyo]] ([[User talk:Ruzhyo|talk]]) 17:57, 15 December 2014 (EST)

Talk:Hawaii Five-0 (2010) - Season 5

2014-12-30T08:10:37Z

Anarchy66660: /* Grover's 1911 */

==Unknown==
A Navy SEAL loads up his pistol at the start of "Ka Makuakane" (S05E02).
[[File:H50S5E02 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The pistol being loaded up.]]
[[File:H50S5E02 101.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
Please help ID this pistol. It's possible that it's a Beretta, but the rail doesn't seem to match anything familiar. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 03:13, 6 October 2014 (EDT)

:I think its just a railed SIG isn't it? I can't tell if it is a P226 or P220 from that shot though. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:20, 6 October 2014 (EDT)
::Second shot is of a Beretta, you can tell by the hammer having a hole in it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 00:06, 8 October 2014 (EDT)

Got this too. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 01:42, 15 December 2014 (EST)
:That's just his usual Kimber. --[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 19:08, 15 December 2014 (EST)
::Moving it. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 20:05, 28 December 2014 (EST)

== Grover's 1911 ==

Are there any clearer shots of Grover's 1911, as this is not a TRP Operator:[[File:H50S5E01 02.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]If you look at the front of the pistol you can see that it has a normal 1911 length frame rather than the full length frame of the Operator he has previously used. It could be the Light Rail model, but from the minimal marking on this side of the slide I would be more inclined to say that it is a [[Kimber Warrior]]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:30, 6 October 2014 (EDT)
:That's also a Streamlight TLR-2 vs the TLR-1 he had last season. Although in 5.02 he had no light on his weapon.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 00:06, 8 October 2014 (EDT)
The light rail transition is probably the biggest give away, as the dust cover is slanted -- not flat. This is what would have me inclined to think that this is infact a Kimber Warrior as well. I personally would have gone with a TRP though ;)--[[User:Gwhysow|Gwhysow]] ([[User talk:Gwhysow|talk]]) 16:29, 16 November 2014 (EST)

I believe Grover's 1911 is a Kimber Tactical Entry II http://combatrifle.net/kimber/kimber_tactical_entry_II-3.jpg you can see a good shot of it in episode 3.--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] ([[User talk:Anarchy66660|talk]]) 03:10, 30 December 2014 (EST)

==FN Mark 13==
Is this in service with the US? I know the [[M203 grenade launcher|M-203]] and [[Heckler & Koch M320|M-320]] are but wasn't aware this was issued to any units. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 05:32, 7 October 2014 (EDT)
:I've never seen a photo of them using it, but I am pretty sure that USSOCOM did get some. After all, the term "MK 13" is just the USSOCOM designation for the FN40GL. I highly doubt they got many though or still use them, as they mainly ended up getting the SCAR-H and I believe that the MK 13 is specifically the FN40GL-L (the version for the SCAR-L). Granted they could get new trigger adapters and fit them to their SCAR-Hs, but these are more DMR weapons so there wouldn't be much point. On a related note, anybody else notice how massively long those magazine are relative to the bottom of the grenade launcher? To me they look like they could be MWG 40 round mags, but is hard to tell in that lighting. If not, could also be that they are normal 30 round mags that for some reason have gotten stuck in the trigger bridge for the grenade launcher rather than the magazine well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:19, 7 October 2014 (EDT)

== Grover's SIG ==

Grover's SIG-Sauer looks more like the SIG-Sauer P226 E2 that McGarrett used in season 1 --[[User:Gunfan2818|Gunfan2818]] ([[User talk:Gunfan2818|talk]])
[[Image:Sig Sauer P226 E2 08.jpg|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer P226 E2 - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:H50S5E03 113.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lou Grover appears to hold a SIG-Sauer in "Kanalu Hope Loa" (S5E03).]]
[[Image:Hawaii Five0SigPistol.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McGarrett P226 E2 for comparison.]]
:It is missing the "E2" markings, so it definitely isn't that. It could still be a regular P226R or a "Navy", however i do not think it is. Even though there is a rail mounted flashlight attached, from that cap I'm not sure that the original pistol had a rail. If you look at the side of the frame on a railed SIG, the top of it where it meets the slide and the bottom edge above the rail are totally parallel. In this cap they are not parallel, instead the bottom edge slopes upwards like on an un-railed P226. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 21:22, 12 October 2014 (EDT)
::I personally don't see any difference between the slide/frame of a railed and non-railed P226 and I highly doubt they went through the trouble of mounting an X300 on a non-railed P226 when they have a plethora of railed P226's in their collection. I'm thinking this was a continuity error and McGarrett's P226 Navy wound up being given to Grover, especially since the SIG in McGarrett's holster during that scene is the Elite that sometimes gets swapped out for the Navy.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 18:53, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:::Normally, if it was P226 with a railed frame it should be the case that the line where the slide and the frame join should be totally parallel to the top of the the mount of the X300. In the above cap this is not the case, with the front of the mount being closer to the slide than at the back which suggests that the part of the frame it is attached to is sloped like on the old, non-railed P226. Granted it could be something else like a weird trick of the camera, the torch not being mounted correctly, or the torch/pistol/both being a replica of some sort that is slightly off. Just judging from this one cap though, that pistol doesn't look right to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:27, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
::::That could be due to the X300 being set up to mount using the rail lock system vs the standard system. It puts pressure on the rail that tilts the front end of the light upward depending on how tightly the screw is screwed in.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 19:54, 13 October 2014 (EDT)

==416s?==

Are those really 416s? I can't seem to tell [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 08:13, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:I don't think so, the rail doesn't look high enough, the gas block isn't exposed, and there is no step on the receiver rail at the rear. To me, it also looks like these "HK416s" are the exact same gun as the "Mark 18 Mod 0s" listed beneath. My guess is that they are older model Daniel Defence Mk 18s but would need a better shot of the back of the rail to tell for sure (I think this is what the guns ID's as 416s are in the previous season as well). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:43, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
::I'm fairly certain those rails are Daniel Defense Mk18's, the front of Kono's rifle matches it almost exactly.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 18:56, 13 October 2014 (EDT)

Also, I don't think Grover's P226 is a regular one, since it has a rail and light attached [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:57, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:Technically it is, as all but 3 of the 4 X-Five models have rails. But per site standards (Annoying IMO, but I understand) it should be labelled as a P226R.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 09:31, 14 October 2014 (EDT)

== Single Action Army ==

The rear and front sights on the close-up of the SAA (S5E09) make me think it's a Ruger Blackhawk Stainless, not an SAA or clone --[[User:Ruzhyo|Ruzhyo]] ([[User talk:Ruzhyo|talk]]) 17:57, 15 December 2014 (EST)

Talk:Space Dandy

2014-03-17T03:49:21Z

Anarchy66660: /* Panzerschreck */

== Panzerschreck ==

Is it just me, or is the Panzerschreck depicted in the wrong way, with the stock in front of the trigger Guard? --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] ([[User talk:PeeWee055|talk]]) 08:41, 16 March 2014 (EDT)

ya it is backwards i noticed it to--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] ([[User talk:Anarchy66660|talk]]) 23:49, 16 March 2014 (EDT)

Talk:Battlefield 4

2014-03-06T00:11:07Z

Anarchy66660: /* Naval Strike */

== Leaks ==

http://www.overclock.net/t/1375494/neogaf-leaked-bf4-screens
Looks like M249E3 and M4(?) with MoH:WF influence.
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

== 17-minute gameplay ==

The first 17 minutes of gameplay have been released now. I've added myself some guns in the page and if someone thinks some guns are wrong, feel free to change it since I'm still a novice when it comes to identify guns in games. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 10:26, 27 March 2013 (EDT)
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HVQXkeU8U

== Shorty shotgun ==

The shorty shotgun could also be the same breacher-configured 870 MCS from ''Warfighter''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:03, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

== M249E3 Para SAW / Mk 46 Mod 0 Hybrid ==

Do you guys think that the machine gun Irish is carrying it's actually a hybrid between a M249E3 Para SAW and a Mk 46 Mod 0? I've watched the gameplay video a couple times and I can't really see it the machine gun has a STANAG well under the belt to see that is a cross between the two weapons. For the time being I just added the machine gun to the page as an Mk 46 Mod 0, although I'm not sure if you can change its fixed stock for a collapsible and still call it an Mk 46 Mod 0. Here is a picture to take a look that I took from the Battlefield 4 site. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 09:17, 29 March 2013 (EDT) 
[[File:bf4 m249.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:It has a conventional M249 barrel and carry handle, both things lacked by the MK46. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 12:13, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::The Mod 1 variant restores the carry handle and barrels are interchangeable. The only telling features that distinguish an M249 from a Mk 46 are the magazine well (which we can't determine since no images of the left side of the gun are provided) and the vehicle mounting lug, which the in-game gun noticeably lacks. This could very well be a true Mk 46, for once. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:13, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

:Also on the picture above Pac has an M4A1, it's seen in the gamplay trailer too. --[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 03:29, 4 April 2013 (EDT)

== Vehicle Mounted HMG ==

At 6.58 in the gameplay video, when Record engages the buggy with the Serbu Super Shorty, you see the HMG mounted above it. Is it a Dushka?
I'm rubbish with the whole screen-shot thing so I won't attempt that. It has just been bothering me. Thanks. --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] ([[User talk:Ritch|talk]]) 05:47, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

It's most likely a Kord HMG, just guessing from Russian vehicle armorments in previous games.--[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fan]] ([[User talk:AK-74Fan|talk]]) 12:01, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

Ahh right thanks! I have to admit, I am absolute rubbish at ID-ing HMG's. --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] ([[User talk:Ritch|talk]]) 10:52, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

== Have they learned their lessons from Battlefield 3? ==

Looking over the BF3 discussion page, I'm driven to wonder if DICE has learned their lessons from BF3's lifetime and are going to make this game better (at least with respect to emulating real-life firearms). I'd like to think they will--this website's popularity is rising, so more people are aware of DICE's shortcomings when it comes to realistic firearms than before. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 14:24, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

This could be because I'm SP-centric (and BF3 has been shelved since ''Warfighter'' came out), but the only weapon-related "shortcoming" I felt BF3 had was the use of M240Bs and so-called "M16A3s" (which I still have yet to see convincing proof is a flat top receiver when all the ''official'' sources say it's the same thing it was when first adopted--a fixed carry handle A2 upper) by the Marines. MP probably has more I'm either unaware of or have forgotten, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:04, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

:This is a pic of an M16A3 built under license by FN, I imagine that one could just slap an A4 upper on it and you have a flattop AR: [http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/untitled5cb1.jpg M16A3] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 11:08, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

::I've seen that one before. Changing a major component like that makes it ''not'' an M16A3 because it doesn't adhere to the military's A3 specification, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:33, 3 April 2013 (EDT)

:Gonna have to agree. DICE have been very accurate with weapon characteristics in BF3, give or take a few things. In comparison to other FPS, BF3 already stood head and shoulders above. Fire selectors and bolt releases were missing, along with certain Only Warfighter has had the hyper-realism I've always been looking for (except for AK variants, but I don't mind >.>), and I'm sure DICE will bring at least some of that back into BF4. --[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 20:45, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

== More weapons shown ==

Some new pics show the weapon loadout screens but they're watermarked to hell and back.

http://i.imgur.com/Ef1eymph.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m6NUETrh.jpg

CZ-805

Beretta M9

Scorpion EVO A3

Magpul PDR-C

QBZ-95

Type 88 LMG

QSZ-92

SV-98

QBU-88

Scout Elite

Ultimax 100 Mk5
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:00, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

The Czechnology seems to be getting around.But oh great, 4 classes...again. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:24, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

:I don't know about you, but I think it would be hard to snipe with no arms. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 21:59, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

The Ak5c and the Saiga can be added to the page right now. They are seen in the new "Angry Sea" video. I also caught a fleeting glimpse of what looked to be the H&K XM25 launcher during the E3 live stream. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 17:15, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

I think the Magpul PDR-C is just a placeholder for the Scorpion EVO A3--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:50, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== E3 footage ==

Now that EA has shown some new footage of Battlefield 4 during this year E3, some new weapon appear on the video. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 15:26, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Singleplayer 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEZhbV9s1Ag

Multiplayer 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nJY7n8KaOY
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSykcTGrNc
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgZTeVnM5Sw

Saw this on the BF wiki, during the counter knife sequence, "Press F to pickup P90" can be seen.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130611030437/battlefield/images/thumb/1/1c/Knifecounter.png/640px-Knifecounter.png
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

:Good catch there! You can see P90 (along with a QB series weapon on the right) more clearly in this screenshot: http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/1/1d/Siege_of_Shanghai_1.jpg --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:08, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Also saw an XM-25 in June 12 livestream http://gyazo.com/ec33d8c85bc8c3c981fde636cc1a3ffe.png [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 15:45, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== Kel Tec RFB ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-cJhOCd7GY

Also the text here says QBZ-95-1 but the 5.56A-91 image is subbed in: http://imgur.com/a/oBF5P#6nlAhND
[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 14:04, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

YES! FINALLY! I've been waiting for a RFB, and in battlefield no less![[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 23:08, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

:That photo album also confirms the QSZ-92, which isn't a surprise, but it's nice to see there's at least one new pistol. I hope it's the 5.8mm, 20-round version for the sake of variety. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 03:18, 17 June 2013 (EDT)

== 40mm vs. Havoc in Baku ==

"Gee, I really wish I had a 40mm ''before'' that helicopter blew everything up. Oh, wait, I did."--[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] ([[User talk:Animalmenace|talk]]) 08:35, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Wrecker was a ''little'' busy avoiding being turned into salsa by the helicopter. Probably didn't want to spend much time trying to line up a shot to the cockpit with a grenade launcher. Even if he were firing HEDP grenades like the M433 or even the new "HELLHOUND" grenade, I seriously doubt he could have stopped a Havoc with a grenade - unless he happened to hit it right in the cockpit with it. The opportunity to do just that doesn't happen until the thing comes down to the deck to finish off the car. (Pilot got cocky I guess. Well, his canopy ''can'' stop rifle rounds, guess he figured he was okay.) [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] ([[User talk:Atypicaloracle|talk]]) 06:42, 22 June 2013 (EDT)

== Alpha Code Leak ==
Here's the link: http://pastebin.com/MX9mBuzJ
I'll post what's relevant, though the it can be a bit confusing at times. The Starstreak, a British MANPADS with three mini-missiles that launch after the main missile reaches max speed, will be in. Both the M15 and M34 smoke grenades are mentioned. We already knew about the MBT LAW, right? M82A3 (yes!), FAMAS, M40A5, 870, UMP, OMFG-148 Javelin. The XM25 will have both standard airburst, and smoke airburst grenades. The M320 has the same four ammo types as BF3, with the addition of 40mm flashbangs. In the optics section, there's a "visionking", even though the model can't be known yet, I bet it's the 20x scope. There are 1x, 3x, 4x, 6x, 8x, 20x, and 40x scopes, as well as "ugl", which is likely just the M320's sights. I think the 8x is just a left over from BF3, as we know we're getting 6x and 20x options for sniper rifles, and the adjustable zoom attachment adds 14x to whichever you have, so 6x & 14x, or 14x & 20x. Since it sounds like th M82 will always have a scope and bipod, which means it's likely not customizable, I bet it will have to have a 40x scope at all times, as part of its balance. That's everything relevant to us that I could find. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:14, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

I've talked to an alpha player, said the Barrett is a stationary weapon if I'm not mistaken. Also saw the UTAS sight right before visionking.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 18:17, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

The Barrett ''should'' be a stationary weapon, not something you can run around all willy-nilly with. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:23, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

:Right, the UTAS, that's what I missed when writing this. From what I've read, the M82 is a pickup weapon that's on the map, like the Ceph weapons in Crysis 3. Per these stats it does 110 damage, has no damage drop over range, but roughly a five second reload. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:00, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

== Battlelog inventory screen ==

http://s22.postimg.org/unc6vxf1t/bf4.jpg

The latest Battlelog trailer showing all the apps and stuff had someone choosing their loadout. AK-12 featured prominently.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 16:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

Hm, I didn't know the FAMAS looked like a SCAR. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 13:27, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:SAR-21? Cool! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:09, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:@Pyramid, they've been using placeholder icons since the alpha.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 16:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

I hope to God the M16 isn't the A3 in final, also in the trailer we see an "M14A3", possible typo?[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 08:39, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

::That's definitely a typo for the M16A3. Also, it has to be in, the US needs a full-auto AR. And while some people here seem to think otherwise, there are two different rifles that got the "A3" designation, the first being a full-auto A2, the other being a full-auto A4. They have different Colt model numbers, but are both A3s as far as the military is concerned. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:37, 28 July 2013 (EDT)
:::The "M16A3" is so damn confusing. I am currently of the opinion that there are actually 3 different US military issue rifles that are all the A3. The first is the Colt made M16A2E3 which was introduced in 1992 I think. This had a standard A2 upper along with an A1 style lower (no A2 strengthening points) and was stamped A2E3. Then you have the M16A3 that was made after this that had an A2 style lower (but with burst replaced by auto and stamped as the M16A3) and an A2 upper. I think these were made from 1994 and all of these were made by FN, but not sure. Finally you have the debatable flat top upper one. Annoyingly, from Googling I can't find any pictures of this actually being used, but I am about 99% sure it exists. I believe that all of the M16A3s that were ordered post OIF are the flat top kind, and they are mainly a mix of FN and Sabre Defence made rifles. I remember seeing a picture of one of the Sabre Defence guns and it was flat top with a railed handguard, and as the order for 5000 or so M16A3s from them was in 2008, I would be amazed if the US military was buying any rifle without a sight rail then. Similarly, there have been orders from FN for the M16A3 as recently as 2010, and again I don't believe that they would still be buying carry handle uppers at this point. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:13, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
::::Found some proof that a flat top M16A3 exists in [http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk148/pezboytate/Firearms/m16a3sabredefense.jpg this] photo. It is a Sabre Defence Gun marked as M16A3, property of US Government, S/1/F selector, railed handguard and flat top A4 style upper receiver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:37, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::Not an M16A3, it's just had parts swapped out. The A3 was an A2 with an S/1/F lower when it was adopted in the 90s and it remains this today. This was told to me by active duty US Navy SEAL just this morning. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:12, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
::::::Do you seriously think the US government would be buying an AR-15 platform without a flat top as late as 2010 (FN and Colt were awarded contracts including M16A3s in 2007, Sabre Defence got one in 2008, and FN got another in 2010)? I think the majority that are around are still the older A3s with the carry handle, but I think the newer ones like this have a flat top. Note that it has a Shot Show tag on it, I doubt that they would be showing off a random franken-gun at their booth as opposed to their newest government contract. [http://www.guns.com/reviews/sabre-defence-m16a3/ Here] is another photo of the Sabre Defence version showing the whole gun. I don't know if the contract was fully completed before Sabre Defence went belly up, however there has been a new contract with FN since this point, so can only assume that the FN guns would be built to the same or better spec than these as opposed to taking a step backwards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:50, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::To make things even more confusing, the picture in that link shows a flattop M16, but all the text and stats imply it has an A2 upper. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:29, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I don't know why they're still buying rifles in that configuration, but [http://seabeemagazine.navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/05/17/nmcb-5-undergoes-rifle-quals-in-okanawa/ they are]. I can swap out the upper receiver group and buttstock on an M4 to give it a 24" barrel and a PRS buttstock, would that make you think "new" M4s are being procured as DMRs instead of carbines? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:35, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
::::::::A few points. Firstly that doesn't say anything about what configuration the rifles that are currently built are in, just that there are rifles in the inventory that have the fixed carry handle. As I said before, I think the majority of rifles in circulation will have the A2 upper, it will only be the newest ones that have the A4 style ones. Secondly, if I had to guess I would say that those are not the newer guns made by FN or Sabre Defense. If you look at the finish it is gray, particularly when you compare it to the M4 which is in one of the photos which is much blacker in comparison. I believe that current FN and Sabre Defense guns (along with current Colt ones I think) have a black finish, whereas the gray was on older Colt guns. Lastly, I don't see what you are getting at with the last point about switching out the upper. Are you saying that people are doing this to M16A3s, or that the pictures of the Sabre Defense gun are a case of this? If the latter than I don't think this is the case, as firstly they are pictures provided by Sabre Defense to show off the fact they are (were) making M16A3s for the military so I doubt it would be a random cobbled together gun, particularly as it has the US Gov and M16A3 markings. Another thing to bear in mind, is that for these recent orders they were combined with orders for M16A4s. If they are making M16A4s I imagine it would be cheaper to be producing flat top A3s than carry handle ones, as the upper would be common between the two variants without having to tool up and run a whole separate production line. Again, I find it hard to believe that the Navy would pay more for something with less utility. Maybe the new ones do have a fixed carry handle, but to me it makes no logical sense why they would choose to do this, and from the evidence I can find the rifles that Sabre Defense made to the US Government spec had a flat top when they were made in 2008. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:37, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
:: SCAR-L or HK416 works fine imo, also the M4 will be all kit as a carbine so I'd rather not have the same game of Assault spam again.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:11, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

== MGL Reload ==
Someone added that you only reload three shells, but I think they were being loaded two at a time. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:08, 26 July 2013 (EDT)

== Character Model Images ==
I had heard a rumour that the P226 was going to be in, [http://bf4talk.com/threads/battlefield-4-characters-hd.606/ but this confirms it.] About time a we see a SIG in a game again. My gut tells me it will be the .40 version, to bridge the gap between the standard issue 9mms (plus the G17), and the M1911; it would be a perfect fit in both damage and mag size. I don't have a link, but there are a few guns built into the Alpha that people have found; the ones we didn't know about (other than the P226, which is the railed version) are the Mx4 Storm and CS/LR4. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:12, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

It could also be a simple holster stuffer, too. This is hardly proof that the gun will be usable. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:00, 30 July 2013 (EDT)

::The P226 was found in the files along with the Mx4 and CS/LR4, as dog tags. [http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_4/comments/1h593e/heres_an_accurate_list_of_all_weaponsgadgets I found the sources.] [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:27, 30 July 2013 (EDT)

:::[http://i.imgur.com/DFMOy4p.jpg Here's] a leaked screenshot of the M82 from the Alpha. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:28, 1 August 2013 (EDT)

I don't think that character holding the LMG has enough American flags on his uniform. Jesus. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 06:15, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

== QBZ-95(-1?) and RPG-7 confirmed ==
Video from the Wintergore's channel (also shows the RPG-7):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzdSfV3e-VI

Video from the Levelcap's channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2F6B4Gtnhc

These are just a few videos that confirm the implementation of the QBZ-95 in BF4. Also Levelcap call it "QBZ-95-1", but I'm not sure that the rifle models are actually based on the newest QBZ-95 variant or they are just a modified version of the old QBB-95 models from BF3 ([[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]) 9:36, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

:Here's a [http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348580286883/ thread on Battlelog] that's compiled all of these clips that have been given to the community. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:11, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

== New Weapons ==
Remington 870, M40A5 (I'm assuming, I don't know exactly), the Hybrid M249 from the last Battlefield, AK-12, PKP Pecheneg, SV-98, Saiga 12k, QBZ-95 (unknown if it's the original or the QBZ-95-1) and the CS/LR4 are getting added
Proof:
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/f/fe/Battlefield_4_American_Character_Models.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/b/b2/Battlefield_4_Russian_Character_Models.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/3/31/Battlefield_4_Chinese_Character_Models.jpg
---[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 08:53, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

*ok, so apparently I'm EXTREMELY tardy to the party.... My bad. --[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:46, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

:It's a QBZ-95-1 (QBZ-95G alternatively) for sure. PLA engineer also sports a QBS-09 semi automatic shotgun. However, as refreshing that is to see, I wag my finger in disappointment at the Russian medic who forgot to pack up appropriate VOG-25 grenades for his trip. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 08:21, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

::ok, so there are some new things in there, right? I didn't just waste everyone's time?--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:35, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

:::I'm pretty sure QBS-09 was never seen before in any official or unofficial Battlefield 4 material. Haven't really been following it around, but any news around that are desirable. Thanks for posting these photos. There's also the rocket/missile launcher on the PLA engineers back. I'm pretty sure that's new, considering Alpha footage assigned good ol' RPG-7 to the Chinese. It could just be a Strela again or it's Chinese derivative. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:28, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

PK Pecheneg is new. US assault has a Glock (17?) in his chest again. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:09, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

:I don't know. I'm pretty sure PKP appeared in the installment beforehand, just not as a starting weapon for the class/kit in question. I think it will be interesting seeing three faction and how they play off each other, even if they'll probably end up being just reskined versions of each other in terms of vehicles and starting weapons. Can anybody ID the shotgun US soldier is carrying. I was inclined to think it's [http://www.imfdb.org/images/e/e9/Remington_870MCS.jpg Remington 870MCS] just like in previous few installments and based on the over all shape, however the other two factions lug semi automatic shotguns. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:28, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

::I'd never even heard of the QBS-09 before, so thanks for the links :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 20:51, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

Same about the QBS, neat. I'm positive thats an 870MCS as in the previous installments, perhaps its a place holder though. Interesting if they have it both with the Serbu 870.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 01:02, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

:I'm pretty sure QBS-09 wasn't seen anywhere outside of the few official press releases. This is definitely the first appearance in entertainment media. Not even sure if it was adopted besides for a few selected units and possibly pushed for police service. It's refreshing to see a rarity like this crop up. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 07:45, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

::oh... So, I didn't waste everyone's time?--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 11:08, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

==Paracel Storm Trailer==
HOLY CRAP. aside from the new guns (ACE 21, etc.) Did anyone else see the boat hit the shore and land in that building? So awesome...--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:45, 20 August 2013 (EDT)
:That was an awesome trailer, I didn't see any guns you missed. Here's the P226 in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEIWYgA2lbQ Premium trailer], at 0:51, and the UTS-15 in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guxDcKmhDLA Levolution trailer], at 0:42. Here's a [http://blogscdn.battlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Battlefield-4-Paracel-Storm-4-WM.jpg.jpg screenshot] revealing there's an M200. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:20, 20 August 2013 (EDT)

Think there was a modern AK12 derived Saiga in the base trailer, when the camera follows the soldier walking up a catwalk and gunning down his foe.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:54, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

It looked like an AK-12 firing shotgun rounds, which was weird, so that makes sense to me. The "MSMC" looks to actually be a CBJ-MS. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:04, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

== Every weapon in Battlefield 4 ==

So somebody at Gamespot managed to get a recording of the class customisation menu. They went through every weapon subset and a few of the attachment menus. Pretty much reveals everything except vehicle weaponry. I'm not sure if this can be added to the page (does it count as a leak?), but it's still interesting and it couldn't hurt to have it here anyway. Some of the guns have made up names (or are too obscure to be found in a quick google search) but there are four Ak-12 variants, the SAR-21 and a good amount of chinese weapons. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 13:21, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

[http://uk.gamespot.com/events/gamescom-2013/battlefield-4-every-class-every-weapon-every-unlock-6413393/ Video is here]

:To be honest, I'm disappointed with the selection. Most of the weapons are same (and look like re-used models as well) as in Battlefield 3, with very few additions. Then, again, they covered quite a lot of firearms there, so some were bound to re-appear. Hope the time and resources were put into making more maps and tools that are fun to play around with. There's also no designated launcher for the Chinese faction, so I assume Russians and Chinese will both share RPG-7V2. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 14:14, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

No MP7 but two UMP's and the SPAS 12 makes me a bit dissapoint, although they'll likely add more weapons. Also, didn't the Chinese engineer have his own launcher in the hi def faction screens. Also, the AK12 Saiga is the OBV 12, interesting.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:19, 21 August 2013 (EDT)
:: Youtube link if needed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLzYLTPN6Mw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 18:34, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

:::There's no way that's the final build, there's too much missing, like no Chinese launchers or G17 even though we saw them, no M1911 would just be silly, I could go on. I bet this is most of the weapons, say 2/3 or 3/4, but not all of them. Note that there is other stuff missing from the build too, like the F-22 (US is using the PAK-FA). The "SRR-61" is the M200 Intervention, as the that's in the build but not on the list, and the "SRR-61" says it has 7 rounds of .408. The "338-Recon" could be a lot of things. The "Compact 45" is likely an HK45C, BF doesn't use HK names after all, and they couldn't name it "M45C", as the M1911 variant in BF3 (and likely this one) is the M45. While the "Compact 45" is listed as having 15 round, that would be ridiculous, and is likely an oversight in the stats. The Galil ACEs are listed as 30 rounds, but do in fact have 35, as seen in the trailer, so some are wrong. Also, the HK45C takes 8 round magazines, which means they could have the M1911 along side it with no balance issues. I believe the rest of the guns are named properly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:11, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
::::The SVD-12 is likely an AK-12 DMR variant, rather than an actual SVD variant. If we're getting whole families of rifles like this (5 AK-12s, 4 Galils, the Q series) I hope we get the rest of the G36-series lineup in DLC. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:43, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::Not sure if [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QOPsp9pRnc8#t=196 this clip in this video] is from a longer one, but it shows that when you put a Heavy Barrel on a P90 it becomes a full auto PS90. HK45, not the C, as the "Compact 45" [http://i.imgur.com/PfN53FI.png confirmed]. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:07, 23 August 2013 (EDT)

== Some more weapon images ==

http://i.imgur.com/eqfdwoZ.jpg

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 03:03, 22 August 2013 (EDT)

== Article needs updating ==

People need to start looking for GamesCom multiplayer footage of the various new confirmed guns and put screencaps of them on this page. Come on, people, this article needs to be updated! [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 10:29, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:You do know that you can do it yourself, instead of asking someone ELSE to do it. Maybe you should have a look at the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#No_page_vandalism|rules]] again... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:52, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
::That's the thing: no, I can't. I don't know how to do. Also, how have I committed vandalism, exactly? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 13:00, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:::If you want something screencapped but don't know how to do it, the correct thing to do would be to ask for advice on how to do it, rather than badger other people to do it for you. I suggest you read the [[IMFDB Screencapping Guide]]. Assuming the video you are talking about is on youtube, you can even do it as simply as just pausing it, print screening and cropping in paint. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:19, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
::::The screencapping guide contains a link to Fast Stone Image Viewer, which is free and far superior to MS Paint. The guide also details how to take screen captures with Fast Stone Image Viewer. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:25, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::How do I put the images on the site once I've captured them? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 13:39, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
::::::Go to the panel on the left and look under "Toolbox" and click on "Upload file." Browse to the file you want to upload (or drag and drop onto that box,) then tag the image in the summary box below (for example, <nowiki>[[Category: Screenshot]]</nowiki> for screenshots,) and then click on upload. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:16, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::::How do I delete an uploaded file that's named wrong? Or just change the name of it? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 09:55, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
::You can either use the move tool or you can tag it for deletion with <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki> and reupload. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 10:49, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:::How do I do that? Where do I find the move tool and how do I tag it with <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki>? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 10:51, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
::::Actually, I just figured out how to do the latter. Still would like to know how to do the former, though! :) [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 11:28, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::If you click on an image, look at the tabs at the top of the page, and you'll see a tab for move. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 11:46, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:The article needs updating again. It's not going to stay like this forever, is it? Am I going to have to do this by myself again, or are someone else going to pitch in? Because I did pretty much all of the updating after GamesCom! [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 17:25, 7 November 2013 (EST)

== Another 93R ==

Not sure if this is a correct model but another incarnation of the 93R is seen here:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0H9lXzp6MmM&feature=relmfu

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 02:17, 1 September 2013 (EDT)

== No M16A3 for BF4 multiplayer ==

The M16A3 is removed from BF4 multiplayer. the M16 model seen on recent gameplay is actually mislabeled and is now corrected as the three round burst M16A4.

You can read about this here:
http://pixelenemy.com/m16a3-removed-from-battlefield-4-multiplayer-dice-confirms/

[[User:Dangerman1973|Dangerman1973]] ([[User talk:Dangerman1973|talk]]) 02:09, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

FUCK.YES (pardon the french)[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 09:16, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

::What the heck, was the M16A3 really so annoying? Me and my friends, we have never even heard of this "controversy", and we play on multiple paltforms... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:14, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

:::yeah, same here, I don't recall it having really low recoil... I couldn't kill anyone with the M16A3. I just used the a4.--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:09, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

From the looks of things in a few recent videos the M4A1 is out and the M4 is replacing it too, so it will be the dedicated burst/semi Carbine. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] ([[User talk:5t3v0|talk]]) 14:49, 18 September 2013 (EDT)

== Fire selectors? ==

Does anyone know if BF4 will feature correct fire selectors that visibly change on the weapon model depending on current fire mode? I was hoping to see this. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 17:55, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

== GP-30 Confirmed ==
And a brief glimpse of the Five-seveN in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_dacA-ZEWQ this video], second halfish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:58, 24 September 2013 (EDT)

== Cocking the RPG-7's hammer? ==

Ok, guys, I got the beta, and while using the RPG, I've noticed that after loading the rocket, you cock the hammer on the grip (a detail that I've not seen any game include so far). Just something I thought was interesting. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 01:05, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

:I thought that was the safety lever.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:37, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

::Nope, it was the hammer. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:20, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

== Bullpups less accurate than other assault rifles ==

I have noticed that the stats for the bullpups in-game have an accuracy of 45 while other assault rifles have 50. Which brings me to a question, what is the logic behind that? Because in reality, bullpups are supposed to be shorter in overall length while retaining standard barrels to retain the accuracy.

The SAR 21 and AUG A3 has a barrel length of 508mm, the FAMAS 488mm, and the QBZ 95 463mm.
However, the HK416 has a barrel length of 409mm, or 505mm at best, the SCAR H, 400mm barrel, the AEK 971 420mm and the AK12 415mm.

As a matter of fact, all the bullpup rifles has longer barrels than it's counterpart (with the exception of M16A4).
How in the world can DICE allow the bullpups to have lower ADS accuracy than the others? It would have been the total opposite in real life.

If any, they should make reloading bullpups longer due to the magazine behind the trigger.--[[User:ZuluSix|ZuluSix]] ([[User talk:ZuluSix|talk]]) 12:16, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
:I've heard (never having fired one myself) that bullpups tend to have crappy triggers, which might affect accuracy. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:21, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
::In BF3 all bullpups had better hipfire accuracy, so this is likely a balance to that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:27, 4 November 2013 (EST)
:::But why hipfire? Hipfiring is so damn inaccurate anyway so I don't consider that a form of balance. Having fired the SAR 21 and the M16, I don't find much difference in the trigger pull, but the SAR 21 definitely has a very good CG, it rests perfectly balanced on the master hand so I don't see how that is not a plus to the accuracy. [[User:ZuluSix|ZuluSix]] ([[User talk:ZuluSix|talk]]) 03:30, 10 November 2013 (EST)

By virtue of locating the trigger further from the ammunition (and thus the firing pin) than a conventional rifle (or even one that loads in the pistol grip), the trigger pull on bullpup-configuration firearms is less "user-friendly" than on conventional firearms (because the trigger has to move a longer mechanism to activate the firing pin on a bullpup rather than a conventional rifle). If we ever switch to electronically-fired weapons or man-portable directed-energy weapons, their layout (relative to where the trigger and the ammunition is located) will become moot with regards to trigger pull because they will no longer require mechanical firing pins. By the way, I've read user complaints about how many bullpup firearms don't have adjustable buttstocks (the magazine gets in the way), which makes them less comfortable to reload and less user-friendly when used with body armour, but that's not likely going to be changed anytime soon or be reflected in the game itself.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 05:07, 10 November 2013 (EST)
:You do still get bullpups with a perfectly fine trigger pull, it is only really particularly a problem with bullpups that are modified version of standard layout weapons as these tend to have a sub-optimal trigger linkage. On these these the linkage is quite often a piece of stiff wire with bends in it so there is a lot of potential for it to flex, on better design the linkage is a straight flat steel bar that has no flex so the trigger pull is similar to that of a normal rifle (possibly slightly heavier, but without the long sloppy travel of the typical bullpup conversions). If anything bullpups should be more accurate than their comparable contemporaries as they have a longer barrel which should be more accurate and give you more muzzle velocity. For example the SA80 series is very accurate, so much so that when it was introduced the marksman tests had to be revised as it was consistently out shooting the L1A1 SLR to the point where everyone was getting top marks (part of this was due to the SUSAT, but even without it is still a very accurate weapon). If they have a worse trigger pull, it really doesn't effect accuracy much in the situations where assault rifles are used anyway. There is the possibility that bullpups will have more muzzle climb in automatic though due to the centre of gravity being further back so there is less weight keeping the muzzle down. However this balances out with the fact that by necessity bullpups need to have a straight through design with the barrel in line with the shoulder, and personally I actually liked the weight being far back as I find it keeps it seated nicely in my shoulder and is more manoeuvrable, but that is more a personal preference thing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 07:37, 10 November 2013 (EST)
The barrel length of a bullpup depends on the specific model being discussed. Sure, the L85A2 has a 20.4-inch barrel, a little more than an M16. The FN F2000 has a 16-inch barrel, and the Micro-Tavor (the new standard-issue weapon for the IDF) has only a 13-inch barrel, the Israelis apparently satisfied with something possessing less barrel length than the M4 carbine. And accuracy is more than just a factor of barrel length; assuming the same cartridge loading, a firearm with a longer barrel should (up to the point before barrel friction starts overpowering the force of the expanding propellant gas) impart a flatter trajectory to a bullet than a shorter one does, but there are other factors, such as the kind of cartridge (why else do they sell "match-grade ammo"?) and the kind of sights. The fact that no bullpup I've seen comes with an adjustable buttstock could be a factor for "user-friendliness" (not to mention the shorter overall length means you often can't find the room for a foregrip that really fits you), but that's not something that you can really model in a game.

It's too bad that the BF series (aside from the [[Project Reality]] mod) doesn't emulate bayonets. That would be a definite advantage conventional rifles would have over bullpups, due to their greater overall length. Project Reality even lets you smack around opposing player characters with Tavor buttstrokes, too--something I would think must be easier with longer conventional rifles. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 15:13, 23 November 2013 (EST)

== China Rising & Second Assault ==

Figured you guys might like to know, but I recently found some additional information for weapons for the DLC packs China Rising in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox3g_8WF67s as well as info on Second Assault which are below:

China Rising:
* L85
* L96
* MTAR
* RPK
* MP7

Second Assault:
* AS VAL
* F2000

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 15:04, 14 November 2013 (EST)

:The M60E4 was seen in a trailer too, so it's likely in Second Assault. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 00:07, 17 November 2013 (EST)

As a sort of strange aside, the orange presumably "placeholder camo" on all the China Rising weapons as of now gives the impression that the RPK is an original RPK-74 rather than an M model. Why is it, exactly, that we would require the RPK-12 and RPK-74 if they would presumably fill the same function, unless this RPK is an original model firing 7.62x39mm cartridges? --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] ([[User talk:Dirty Harold|talk]]) 12:47, 19 November 2013 (EST)

There was an update for BF4 on PC, where all of the China Rising weapons are available. The RPK is the RPK-74, with the awesome wood furniture on it. So, apparently they wanted to make the RPK-12 and RPK-74 extremely similar. But I do like the new RPK, and all of the guns are fun to use. I hope they add some more guns in Second Assault, like an actual AK47 with wood furniture, and other fun things. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 19:05, 21 November 2013 (EST)

== All Battlefield 4 Weapons video ==

A guy on YouTube named "MAR89TUM" does videos showcasing all weapons in a video game, and he just completed his Battlefield 4 video a few hours ago. I thought I'd share it with you guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A86pF20anB8

[[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 12:30, 20 November 2013 (EDT)

:Saved for later because it's really long, but thanks for sharing :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:27, 20 November 2013 (EST)

::MAR89TUM made two more videos, one for China Rising and another for Second Assault.
::China Rising: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyygTCsJ9T8
::Second Assault: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KCT7bslmZI
::[[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 8:43, 19 February 2014 (EST)

== FN F2000 ==

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4qVx3Pvfu4

I'm assuming the F2000 Tactical is also going to be in there.

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 13:44, 20 November 2013 (EST)

:Gameplay with the scope, yay! I bet the scope is the F2000's iron sights, and if you attach any other optic it becomes the Tactical. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:25, 20 November 2013 (EST)

::I don't have Battlefield 4 yet, but from research I've done I've found that it is a F2000 Tactical, but there is a optic attachment unique to the weapon called "F2000 (x1.6)" and attaching it to the F2000 Tactical transforms it into the original F2000. Attaching any other optic or leaving it as iron sights keeps it as the Tactical. [[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 1:23, 6 December 2013 (EST)

== JS2 ==
I've figured out what's up with the JS2. Okay, first, part of the problem is that IMFDB's entry for the variant is wrong, it's "JS 9mm" (or "Jian She JS 9mm" if you want to include the company name), that's the name; "Type-05" is not a thing, that doesn't exist. Second, the description is also wrong, the JS isn't just a QCW-05 in 9mm. It's based on it, but it's smaller, along with having a flattop and built-in foregrip. It's part of the same family, but not the same gun. So the JS is its own gun, smaller and with a flattop and foregrip. With that out of the way we can talk about what the JS2 is. The JS2 is a fictional future variant of the JS (thus the name) chambered in 5.8mm that fires from a closed bolt, with the charging handle on the left side, and with the suppressor removed. Also, I just happened across a bunch of pictures and a video of Chinese police with JSs without suppressors, so I'm not sure lack of a suppressor is that notable. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 04:37, 21 November 2013 (EST)

== Burst Fire - Why do so many games get it so WRONG? ==

As I understand it, burst firing weapons (like the M16A2 or MP5A4 for instance) were first introduced to *save* ammo, rather than waste it. I just can't figure out why game designers would decide that making the gun fire a *minimum* of three rounds per trigger pull would be a better idea than allowing any number up to three?
I know that HK weapons with burst fire don't act like this in real life, or M16A2/A4s/M4s - Is there such a thing as a real world firearm that does not allow its wielder to fire less than three shots when set to burst fire? [[User:Stickie|Stickie]] ([[User talk:Stickie|talk]]) 07:02, 1 December 2013 (EST)

Far Cry 2 and 3 got it right with the 'AR16' and FAMAS respectively, and I know 007 Nightfire on the Gamecube had plenty of burst weapons capable that could be single shot if you tapped the trigger gently. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:34, 1 December 2013 (EST)

== Missing Second Assault weapons ==

Hello, everyone. As I'm sure most of you know, the Second Assault DLC has been out for a while now. There were 5 weapons that got added in this DLC
*DAO-12 (apologies, I've kinda forgotten what shotgun it's based on)
*Gol Magnum
*M60E3
*F2000
*AS VAL
If anyone can help me get some images for these weapons, I would really appreciate it --[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:47, 4 December 2013 (EST)

I think the main reason the Second Assault weapons haven't been added, this is just a thought, but it hasn't been released on PC yet. The biggest BF4 audience is on PC, and we got screwed. China Rising weapons have been available on PC for about 3 weeks, so those should be here soon. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 17:45, 4 December 2013 (EST)

:ah, alright then. I'll be patient...--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 11:08, 5 December 2013 (EST)

::I assume all our screenshots come from PC, mostly because of how much easier it is to do that, but also for the best resolution. If I played on PC I'd do lots of screencapping, but I can't :( [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:58, 5 December 2013 (EST)

== Reloads ==

I find it strange that some of the guns that have ambidextrous charging handles use the right side only. I first noticed this with the AK-12, where the reload animation uses the left hand to go under the gun and chamber a round from the right side. It is odd for the devs to put in the ambi charging handles, and then act as if they're not there. But they could use an animation from a previous game, who knows. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 22:27, 7 December 2013 (EST)

== Assault Rifle Stats ==

As some people have pointed out, the stats for the assault rifles seem as though they were not thought out. The bullpups have less accuracy, but theoretically have the same barrel length as a rifle chambered for the same round. For example, the SAR-21 has an accuracy rating of 45, while the HK416 has a rating of 50. And the L85A2 has an accuray rating of 35, which is less than most of the carbines. The M16A4 has less stability than most other rifles, most likely due to the 20 inch barrel, but it gains nothing in accuracy. Speaking of stability, the AK-12 is tied with the QBZ-95-1 for second best stability (rating of 70), only being beaten by the SAR-21. Why does the AK-12 have more stability that the HK416(I mainly ask because I love that rifle)? The AK-12 has a 16 inch barrel, while the HK416 utilizes the 14.5 inch barrel in this game, so I don't understand that. The ACE 23 is a super-gun in the game. It has a great rate of fire, awesome accuracy, and almost no recoil. I hate the ACE 23. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 22:41, 7 December 2013 (EST)
:Most video game designers, like most Hollywood writers don't actually know anything about firearms.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 00:37, 8 December 2013 (EST)
::A few things. Those stat bars, like in almost every game, are half wrong, don't trust them. The reduced accuracy of bullpups is because it's a trade off for their better hipfire accuracy, it highlights their good performance in CQB due to their shorter length. In terms of stability, recoil is directly proportional and opposite to rate of fire, the visual appearance of the gun doesn't factor in. Since gameplay balance has to exist, it's far better to play with less obvious traits like accuracy, hipfire, recoil, muzzle velocity, reload time, and such rather than the more important things like mag capacity, rate of fire, and damage, the three most important things, as those three are what ties the gun to actually representing its real counterpart. The ACE 23 isn't godly, but it is the single most all-round gun in the game, with the natural advantages and disadvantages that come with being the most jack-of-all-trades. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:29, 8 December 2013 (EST)

==CZ-75==

The CZ in the game is not a PHANTOM, but the steel framed SP-01 Tactical. I'm not going to change it yet as we do not have a picture of the SP-01 Tac yet, and the two models are remarkably similar in looks. But I might change the entry and description here shortly. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 14:51, 9 December 2013 (EST)

Actually its not a Tactical. Its a CZ SP-01 Shadow. Tactical denotes it is a decocker model. The in game render clearly shows the extended shadow safety. [[User:Furious Oyster|Furious Oyster]] ([[User talk:Furious Oyster|talk]]) 19:57, 9 December 2013 (EST)FuriousOyster
:Beat me by literally a couple seconds. The Shadow is seen [http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/featured_handguns_hg_cz_usa_cz_75_sp01_shadow_082710/ here] and [http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu76.htm here].--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 20:01, 9 December 2013 (EST)

Well Gentlemen, I stand corrected. That's another reason I didn't change the entry; I know almost nothing about CZ handguns. I simply looked at CZ's current lineup, and found the Tac looks nearly identical to the one in game. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 15:43, 10 December 2013 (EST)
:I think CZ discontinued it because it's no longer on their website, but I'm also not a CZ guy.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 22:29, 10 December 2013 (EST)
::Quote from the first link up there: "The Shadow is available only through CZ Custom, which is the factory custom shop for CZ products in the States." That's likely why it's not on the website. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:00, 11 December 2013 (EST)

Yep, here they are: http://czcustom.com/CZ75_SP01_SHADOW_CustomShop.aspx Though I can't find a version chambered in .40, it's a custom pistol to begin with. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 14:40, 11 December 2013 (EST)

== Missing stuff ==

Hello again. I've noticed a couple things missing from the page. Namely, the RGO grenade, the Type 85 HMG, and the chain gun on the ZBD-09

That's all I needed to say.--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 14:04, 12 December 2013 (EST)

== Rifle Scopes ==
The 8x "Rifle Scope" is very distinctive an has a distinctive mount, but I don't know what it is. It's marked with "Visionzone" and "1.5-5x". The 20x "Hunter", which is the same scope as BF3's 6x/8x "Rifle Scope", is marked only with "Delta Corp", and I'm not sure what it is either. The 40x "Ballistic" is actually a Schmidt & Bender/Premier Reticles M8541, which is 3-12x50. "Schmidt & Bender" (misspelled as "Schmitd"), "Premier Reticles", "M8541", and "3-12x50" can all be seen on it in-game. It's the standard scope for the USMC's M40s. Anyone else know anything about these? Also, while not at all BF4 related, does anyone know what [http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/tokyo-marui-3-9x40-pro-scope-zoom.html#.UriQ6bTN2sE this scope] made by Tokyo Marui is based on? It would be helpful for a different article (and for me) :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:31, 23 December 2013 (EST)

== UTS-15 ==

Isn't it considered strange how the UTS-15 is reloaded (one shell in the left tube, one in the right, one left, one right, etc.) rather than loading 7 shells in one tube first then 7 in the other? Or was this done on purpose considering the real weapon's functionality? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 12:54, 30 December 2013 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure they could have done it either way, but alternating looks more interesting ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:11, 30 December 2013 (EST)

::But alternating makes the reload slower. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:06, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:::It could be something to do with how the reload animations work, as in if it is just a cycle that can be aborted at any point this may be simpler than having to do a specific number of shells in one tube and then the same in the other. This does however lead to the bizarre situation where the guy is opening and closing the loading port covers for every shell, as opposed to just once per tube. Regardless, it is actually really difficult to reload a UTS-15 with a partial magazine (I would imagine near impossible with gloves like the player model is wearing), so any kind of speedy reload is inaccurate. The thing with the UTS-15 tubes is that they only really hold six, with the seventh being placed behind the loading door, which when closed allows the follower/shells to advance into the loading port in effect making the tube longer that it is. This means that when you open the door to top up a partial tube, you would be presented with the front half of the rear round and the back half of the second. You would first need to push the second round forward until it was latched in the tube, and then wiggle the rear round to get it out of the rear of the loading port to the point where you could then put it into the tube, and then you can load as normal. As you would need to do this for both tubes, you are looking at a total of somewhere between 5 and 10 seconds of fiddling time without even loading any new rounds. To me it would seem like the easier way would be to just open the top cover and load both tubes direct without fannying about with the loading door covers or the bizarre follower arrangement, but as I haven't handled one of these myself and can find no mention online of people doing it this way, perhaps there is a reason this wouldn't work (aside from wearing out the detent on the top cover making it pop open even more regularly than it already does). To me this gun falls into the same category of the SPAS-12, in that it looks great in games and films/TV, but it is actually a total POS in real life. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:57, 30 December 2013 (EST)

== Major Updates to LMG Section ==

Finished updating LMG section and will bring other sections to this standard in the near future. Also plan on updating customization screenshots (will take longer for this). Major changes in LMG section:

*Added intro section with in-game characteristics of LMGs
*Mk 46 changed to M249 with explanation
*RPK-74M changed to RPK with explanation
*Brief background info on all weapons
*Noted minor errors for some weapons (like +1 on the open bolt Ultimax)
*Removed all comments related to pre-release, such as "the dogtag appears in Battlelog"

The M249 has it's carry handle in gameplay, though it seems to have been missing the pre-release screen shots.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:41, 6 January 2014 (EST)
*Fixed, thanks. I think it's just the third person model that is missing the handle.

== Benelli M3 ==

The promo image for Player appreciation month seems to have a tactical M3.
Link http://gyazo.com/b649794667495511898e614c2b1f3b75.png
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:22, 6 February 2014 (EST)

:Yep, but that's an older promo image they just apparently wanted to use. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 04:18, 7 February 2014 (EST)

::It's an airsoft M3 (it's pretty much the most common airsoft shotgun), like the other "real" guns are, and it's been used in quite a few different places, including in-game somewhere in the Premium menu. I think it's worth noting, as we noted Recker's G17 on the cover. Also, the G18 in-game is actually a 17 with the selector pasted on to it, you can tell because sometimes you can see through between the slide and switch, and because the cocking serrations don't stop around the switch. Also, as a 17, it's the campaign pistol prop, being used every time there's a pistol except Dunn's REX in the first mission and M9s used by the US scouts that you encounter later. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:33, 7 February 2014 (EST)

== Second Assault Release Date & Naval Strike Weapons ==

Given that Second Assault will finally be coming February 18th the addition of the Second Assault Weapons will be added these include:

* F2000
* AS VAL
* M60-E4
* GOL Magnum
* DAO-12 (Armsel Striker)
* Mk.19 GMG (mounted on the returning DPV vehicle in replacement of the M2 .50 CAL)

Additionally EA and DICE have mentioned Naval Strike being released in late March. It also states an additional 5 new weapons, 2 new gadgets, an "amphibious attack hovercraft" and 4 new maps Lost Islands, Nansha Strike, Wave Breaker and Operator Mortar.
Two of the gadgets stated for Naval Strike include a new grenade launcher attachment for the Assault called the 3GL (which leads many theories on it being the Metal Storm 3GL semi-auto grenade launcher) and a anti-helicopter projectile type mine used by the Engineer Kit.

In a side note I'm also excited for the return for "Carrier Assault" which is DICE's re-imagined version of Battlefield 2142 Titan Mode. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2014 (EST)

== Potential Scar-H goof? ==
I don't have the image to show it and I don't know much about the AAC 51T MITER, but I don't think a comp can be attached to the MITER. I noticed that the other day when I was customizing my Scar-H in the game. Can anyone can anyone confirm?
[[User:DarksamuraiX1999|DarksamuraiX1999]] ([[User talk:DarksamuraiX1999|talk]]) 2040, 17 February 2014 (PST)

== Naval Strike ==
[http://blogscdn.battlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Battlefield-4-Naval-Strike-Hovercraft_WM1.png ARX-160 confirmed] as Naval Strike's AR. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 20:09, 28 February 2014 (EST)

Dat posture. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:52, 1 March 2014 (EST)

:Yeah, why is the character gripping the magazine and the foregrip instead of the rear pistol grip and the foregrip? Weird. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 01:35, 1 March 2014 (EST)

Added it in. [[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 01:00, 1 March 2014 (EST)

The entirety of the NS content was added yesterday, guns, assignments, camos, etc. The ARX-160 appears as the "AR160", the PDW is the SR-2M as the "SR-2" (likely an oversight rather than intentionally different), the MG is the Shrike AAR as the "AWS", I nor any of the community on the forums could nail down the sniper rifle, which is a semi auto .338 called the "SR338" (not helpful), and finally the Rhino revolver appears as the "SW40" as the fifth weapon. Also, in the patch along with loads of balance changes and fixes, the ones relevant to this page are that the L85's rate of fire was reduced from 800 to 750 and burst mode was removed, and the QSZ-92 now correctly holds 20+1. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5-8Mnq_nNw NS stuff video.] [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:00, 5 March 2014 (EST)

the SR338 appears to be this http://www.onlylongrange.com/badnews.asp --[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] ([[User talk:Anarchy66660|talk]]) 19:07, 5 March 2014 (EST)

Talk:Battlefield 4

2014-03-06T00:10:10Z

Anarchy66660: /* Naval Strike */

== Leaks ==

http://www.overclock.net/t/1375494/neogaf-leaked-bf4-screens
Looks like M249E3 and M4(?) with MoH:WF influence.
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

== 17-minute gameplay ==

The first 17 minutes of gameplay have been released now. I've added myself some guns in the page and if someone thinks some guns are wrong, feel free to change it since I'm still a novice when it comes to identify guns in games. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 10:26, 27 March 2013 (EDT)
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HVQXkeU8U

== Shorty shotgun ==

The shorty shotgun could also be the same breacher-configured 870 MCS from ''Warfighter''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:03, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

== M249E3 Para SAW / Mk 46 Mod 0 Hybrid ==

Do you guys think that the machine gun Irish is carrying it's actually a hybrid between a M249E3 Para SAW and a Mk 46 Mod 0? I've watched the gameplay video a couple times and I can't really see it the machine gun has a STANAG well under the belt to see that is a cross between the two weapons. For the time being I just added the machine gun to the page as an Mk 46 Mod 0, although I'm not sure if you can change its fixed stock for a collapsible and still call it an Mk 46 Mod 0. Here is a picture to take a look that I took from the Battlefield 4 site. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 09:17, 29 March 2013 (EDT) 
[[File:bf4 m249.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:It has a conventional M249 barrel and carry handle, both things lacked by the MK46. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 12:13, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::The Mod 1 variant restores the carry handle and barrels are interchangeable. The only telling features that distinguish an M249 from a Mk 46 are the magazine well (which we can't determine since no images of the left side of the gun are provided) and the vehicle mounting lug, which the in-game gun noticeably lacks. This could very well be a true Mk 46, for once. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:13, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

:Also on the picture above Pac has an M4A1, it's seen in the gamplay trailer too. --[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 03:29, 4 April 2013 (EDT)

== Vehicle Mounted HMG ==

At 6.58 in the gameplay video, when Record engages the buggy with the Serbu Super Shorty, you see the HMG mounted above it. Is it a Dushka?
I'm rubbish with the whole screen-shot thing so I won't attempt that. It has just been bothering me. Thanks. --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] ([[User talk:Ritch|talk]]) 05:47, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

It's most likely a Kord HMG, just guessing from Russian vehicle armorments in previous games.--[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fan]] ([[User talk:AK-74Fan|talk]]) 12:01, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

Ahh right thanks! I have to admit, I am absolute rubbish at ID-ing HMG's. --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] ([[User talk:Ritch|talk]]) 10:52, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

== Have they learned their lessons from Battlefield 3? ==

Looking over the BF3 discussion page, I'm driven to wonder if DICE has learned their lessons from BF3's lifetime and are going to make this game better (at least with respect to emulating real-life firearms). I'd like to think they will--this website's popularity is rising, so more people are aware of DICE's shortcomings when it comes to realistic firearms than before. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 14:24, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

This could be because I'm SP-centric (and BF3 has been shelved since ''Warfighter'' came out), but the only weapon-related "shortcoming" I felt BF3 had was the use of M240Bs and so-called "M16A3s" (which I still have yet to see convincing proof is a flat top receiver when all the ''official'' sources say it's the same thing it was when first adopted--a fixed carry handle A2 upper) by the Marines. MP probably has more I'm either unaware of or have forgotten, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:04, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

:This is a pic of an M16A3 built under license by FN, I imagine that one could just slap an A4 upper on it and you have a flattop AR: [http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/untitled5cb1.jpg M16A3] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 11:08, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

::I've seen that one before. Changing a major component like that makes it ''not'' an M16A3 because it doesn't adhere to the military's A3 specification, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:33, 3 April 2013 (EDT)

:Gonna have to agree. DICE have been very accurate with weapon characteristics in BF3, give or take a few things. In comparison to other FPS, BF3 already stood head and shoulders above. Fire selectors and bolt releases were missing, along with certain Only Warfighter has had the hyper-realism I've always been looking for (except for AK variants, but I don't mind >.>), and I'm sure DICE will bring at least some of that back into BF4. --[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 20:45, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

== More weapons shown ==

Some new pics show the weapon loadout screens but they're watermarked to hell and back.

http://i.imgur.com/Ef1eymph.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m6NUETrh.jpg

CZ-805

Beretta M9

Scorpion EVO A3

Magpul PDR-C

QBZ-95

Type 88 LMG

QSZ-92

SV-98

QBU-88

Scout Elite

Ultimax 100 Mk5
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:00, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

The Czechnology seems to be getting around.But oh great, 4 classes...again. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:24, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

:I don't know about you, but I think it would be hard to snipe with no arms. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 21:59, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

The Ak5c and the Saiga can be added to the page right now. They are seen in the new "Angry Sea" video. I also caught a fleeting glimpse of what looked to be the H&K XM25 launcher during the E3 live stream. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 17:15, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

I think the Magpul PDR-C is just a placeholder for the Scorpion EVO A3--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:50, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== E3 footage ==

Now that EA has shown some new footage of Battlefield 4 during this year E3, some new weapon appear on the video. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 15:26, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Singleplayer 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEZhbV9s1Ag

Multiplayer 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nJY7n8KaOY
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSykcTGrNc
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgZTeVnM5Sw

Saw this on the BF wiki, during the counter knife sequence, "Press F to pickup P90" can be seen.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130611030437/battlefield/images/thumb/1/1c/Knifecounter.png/640px-Knifecounter.png
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

:Good catch there! You can see P90 (along with a QB series weapon on the right) more clearly in this screenshot: http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/1/1d/Siege_of_Shanghai_1.jpg --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:08, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Also saw an XM-25 in June 12 livestream http://gyazo.com/ec33d8c85bc8c3c981fde636cc1a3ffe.png [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 15:45, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== Kel Tec RFB ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-cJhOCd7GY

Also the text here says QBZ-95-1 but the 5.56A-91 image is subbed in: http://imgur.com/a/oBF5P#6nlAhND
[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 14:04, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

YES! FINALLY! I've been waiting for a RFB, and in battlefield no less![[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 23:08, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

:That photo album also confirms the QSZ-92, which isn't a surprise, but it's nice to see there's at least one new pistol. I hope it's the 5.8mm, 20-round version for the sake of variety. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 03:18, 17 June 2013 (EDT)

== 40mm vs. Havoc in Baku ==

"Gee, I really wish I had a 40mm ''before'' that helicopter blew everything up. Oh, wait, I did."--[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] ([[User talk:Animalmenace|talk]]) 08:35, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Wrecker was a ''little'' busy avoiding being turned into salsa by the helicopter. Probably didn't want to spend much time trying to line up a shot to the cockpit with a grenade launcher. Even if he were firing HEDP grenades like the M433 or even the new "HELLHOUND" grenade, I seriously doubt he could have stopped a Havoc with a grenade - unless he happened to hit it right in the cockpit with it. The opportunity to do just that doesn't happen until the thing comes down to the deck to finish off the car. (Pilot got cocky I guess. Well, his canopy ''can'' stop rifle rounds, guess he figured he was okay.) [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] ([[User talk:Atypicaloracle|talk]]) 06:42, 22 June 2013 (EDT)

== Alpha Code Leak ==
Here's the link: http://pastebin.com/MX9mBuzJ
I'll post what's relevant, though the it can be a bit confusing at times. The Starstreak, a British MANPADS with three mini-missiles that launch after the main missile reaches max speed, will be in. Both the M15 and M34 smoke grenades are mentioned. We already knew about the MBT LAW, right? M82A3 (yes!), FAMAS, M40A5, 870, UMP, OMFG-148 Javelin. The XM25 will have both standard airburst, and smoke airburst grenades. The M320 has the same four ammo types as BF3, with the addition of 40mm flashbangs. In the optics section, there's a "visionking", even though the model can't be known yet, I bet it's the 20x scope. There are 1x, 3x, 4x, 6x, 8x, 20x, and 40x scopes, as well as "ugl", which is likely just the M320's sights. I think the 8x is just a left over from BF3, as we know we're getting 6x and 20x options for sniper rifles, and the adjustable zoom attachment adds 14x to whichever you have, so 6x & 14x, or 14x & 20x. Since it sounds like th M82 will always have a scope and bipod, which means it's likely not customizable, I bet it will have to have a 40x scope at all times, as part of its balance. That's everything relevant to us that I could find. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:14, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

I've talked to an alpha player, said the Barrett is a stationary weapon if I'm not mistaken. Also saw the UTAS sight right before visionking.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 18:17, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

The Barrett ''should'' be a stationary weapon, not something you can run around all willy-nilly with. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:23, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

:Right, the UTAS, that's what I missed when writing this. From what I've read, the M82 is a pickup weapon that's on the map, like the Ceph weapons in Crysis 3. Per these stats it does 110 damage, has no damage drop over range, but roughly a five second reload. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:00, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

== Battlelog inventory screen ==

http://s22.postimg.org/unc6vxf1t/bf4.jpg

The latest Battlelog trailer showing all the apps and stuff had someone choosing their loadout. AK-12 featured prominently.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 16:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

Hm, I didn't know the FAMAS looked like a SCAR. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 13:27, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:SAR-21? Cool! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:09, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:@Pyramid, they've been using placeholder icons since the alpha.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 16:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

I hope to God the M16 isn't the A3 in final, also in the trailer we see an "M14A3", possible typo?[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 08:39, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

::That's definitely a typo for the M16A3. Also, it has to be in, the US needs a full-auto AR. And while some people here seem to think otherwise, there are two different rifles that got the "A3" designation, the first being a full-auto A2, the other being a full-auto A4. They have different Colt model numbers, but are both A3s as far as the military is concerned. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:37, 28 July 2013 (EDT)
:::The "M16A3" is so damn confusing. I am currently of the opinion that there are actually 3 different US military issue rifles that are all the A3. The first is the Colt made M16A2E3 which was introduced in 1992 I think. This had a standard A2 upper along with an A1 style lower (no A2 strengthening points) and was stamped A2E3. Then you have the M16A3 that was made after this that had an A2 style lower (but with burst replaced by auto and stamped as the M16A3) and an A2 upper. I think these were made from 1994 and all of these were made by FN, but not sure. Finally you have the debatable flat top upper one. Annoyingly, from Googling I can't find any pictures of this actually being used, but I am about 99% sure it exists. I believe that all of the M16A3s that were ordered post OIF are the flat top kind, and they are mainly a mix of FN and Sabre Defence made rifles. I remember seeing a picture of one of the Sabre Defence guns and it was flat top with a railed handguard, and as the order for 5000 or so M16A3s from them was in 2008, I would be amazed if the US military was buying any rifle without a sight rail then. Similarly, there have been orders from FN for the M16A3 as recently as 2010, and again I don't believe that they would still be buying carry handle uppers at this point. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:13, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
::::Found some proof that a flat top M16A3 exists in [http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk148/pezboytate/Firearms/m16a3sabredefense.jpg this] photo. It is a Sabre Defence Gun marked as M16A3, property of US Government, S/1/F selector, railed handguard and flat top A4 style upper receiver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:37, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::Not an M16A3, it's just had parts swapped out. The A3 was an A2 with an S/1/F lower when it was adopted in the 90s and it remains this today. This was told to me by active duty US Navy SEAL just this morning. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:12, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
::::::Do you seriously think the US government would be buying an AR-15 platform without a flat top as late as 2010 (FN and Colt were awarded contracts including M16A3s in 2007, Sabre Defence got one in 2008, and FN got another in 2010)? I think the majority that are around are still the older A3s with the carry handle, but I think the newer ones like this have a flat top. Note that it has a Shot Show tag on it, I doubt that they would be showing off a random franken-gun at their booth as opposed to their newest government contract. [http://www.guns.com/reviews/sabre-defence-m16a3/ Here] is another photo of the Sabre Defence version showing the whole gun. I don't know if the contract was fully completed before Sabre Defence went belly up, however there has been a new contract with FN since this point, so can only assume that the FN guns would be built to the same or better spec than these as opposed to taking a step backwards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:50, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::To make things even more confusing, the picture in that link shows a flattop M16, but all the text and stats imply it has an A2 upper. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:29, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I don't know why they're still buying rifles in that configuration, but [http://seabeemagazine.navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/05/17/nmcb-5-undergoes-rifle-quals-in-okanawa/ they are]. I can swap out the upper receiver group and buttstock on an M4 to give it a 24" barrel and a PRS buttstock, would that make you think "new" M4s are being procured as DMRs instead of carbines? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:35, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
::::::::A few points. Firstly that doesn't say anything about what configuration the rifles that are currently built are in, just that there are rifles in the inventory that have the fixed carry handle. As I said before, I think the majority of rifles in circulation will have the A2 upper, it will only be the newest ones that have the A4 style ones. Secondly, if I had to guess I would say that those are not the newer guns made by FN or Sabre Defense. If you look at the finish it is gray, particularly when you compare it to the M4 which is in one of the photos which is much blacker in comparison. I believe that current FN and Sabre Defense guns (along with current Colt ones I think) have a black finish, whereas the gray was on older Colt guns. Lastly, I don't see what you are getting at with the last point about switching out the upper. Are you saying that people are doing this to M16A3s, or that the pictures of the Sabre Defense gun are a case of this? If the latter than I don't think this is the case, as firstly they are pictures provided by Sabre Defense to show off the fact they are (were) making M16A3s for the military so I doubt it would be a random cobbled together gun, particularly as it has the US Gov and M16A3 markings. Another thing to bear in mind, is that for these recent orders they were combined with orders for M16A4s. If they are making M16A4s I imagine it would be cheaper to be producing flat top A3s than carry handle ones, as the upper would be common between the two variants without having to tool up and run a whole separate production line. Again, I find it hard to believe that the Navy would pay more for something with less utility. Maybe the new ones do have a fixed carry handle, but to me it makes no logical sense why they would choose to do this, and from the evidence I can find the rifles that Sabre Defense made to the US Government spec had a flat top when they were made in 2008. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:37, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
:: SCAR-L or HK416 works fine imo, also the M4 will be all kit as a carbine so I'd rather not have the same game of Assault spam again.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:11, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

== MGL Reload ==
Someone added that you only reload three shells, but I think they were being loaded two at a time. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:08, 26 July 2013 (EDT)

== Character Model Images ==
I had heard a rumour that the P226 was going to be in, [http://bf4talk.com/threads/battlefield-4-characters-hd.606/ but this confirms it.] About time a we see a SIG in a game again. My gut tells me it will be the .40 version, to bridge the gap between the standard issue 9mms (plus the G17), and the M1911; it would be a perfect fit in both damage and mag size. I don't have a link, but there are a few guns built into the Alpha that people have found; the ones we didn't know about (other than the P226, which is the railed version) are the Mx4 Storm and CS/LR4. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:12, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

It could also be a simple holster stuffer, too. This is hardly proof that the gun will be usable. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:00, 30 July 2013 (EDT)

::The P226 was found in the files along with the Mx4 and CS/LR4, as dog tags. [http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_4/comments/1h593e/heres_an_accurate_list_of_all_weaponsgadgets I found the sources.] [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:27, 30 July 2013 (EDT)

:::[http://i.imgur.com/DFMOy4p.jpg Here's] a leaked screenshot of the M82 from the Alpha. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:28, 1 August 2013 (EDT)

I don't think that character holding the LMG has enough American flags on his uniform. Jesus. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 06:15, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

== QBZ-95(-1?) and RPG-7 confirmed ==
Video from the Wintergore's channel (also shows the RPG-7):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzdSfV3e-VI

Video from the Levelcap's channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2F6B4Gtnhc

These are just a few videos that confirm the implementation of the QBZ-95 in BF4. Also Levelcap call it "QBZ-95-1", but I'm not sure that the rifle models are actually based on the newest QBZ-95 variant or they are just a modified version of the old QBB-95 models from BF3 ([[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]) 9:36, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

:Here's a [http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348580286883/ thread on Battlelog] that's compiled all of these clips that have been given to the community. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:11, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

== New Weapons ==
Remington 870, M40A5 (I'm assuming, I don't know exactly), the Hybrid M249 from the last Battlefield, AK-12, PKP Pecheneg, SV-98, Saiga 12k, QBZ-95 (unknown if it's the original or the QBZ-95-1) and the CS/LR4 are getting added
Proof:
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/f/fe/Battlefield_4_American_Character_Models.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/b/b2/Battlefield_4_Russian_Character_Models.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/3/31/Battlefield_4_Chinese_Character_Models.jpg
---[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 08:53, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

*ok, so apparently I'm EXTREMELY tardy to the party.... My bad. --[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:46, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

:It's a QBZ-95-1 (QBZ-95G alternatively) for sure. PLA engineer also sports a QBS-09 semi automatic shotgun. However, as refreshing that is to see, I wag my finger in disappointment at the Russian medic who forgot to pack up appropriate VOG-25 grenades for his trip. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 08:21, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

::ok, so there are some new things in there, right? I didn't just waste everyone's time?--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:35, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

:::I'm pretty sure QBS-09 was never seen before in any official or unofficial Battlefield 4 material. Haven't really been following it around, but any news around that are desirable. Thanks for posting these photos. There's also the rocket/missile launcher on the PLA engineers back. I'm pretty sure that's new, considering Alpha footage assigned good ol' RPG-7 to the Chinese. It could just be a Strela again or it's Chinese derivative. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:28, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

PK Pecheneg is new. US assault has a Glock (17?) in his chest again. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:09, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

:I don't know. I'm pretty sure PKP appeared in the installment beforehand, just not as a starting weapon for the class/kit in question. I think it will be interesting seeing three faction and how they play off each other, even if they'll probably end up being just reskined versions of each other in terms of vehicles and starting weapons. Can anybody ID the shotgun US soldier is carrying. I was inclined to think it's [http://www.imfdb.org/images/e/e9/Remington_870MCS.jpg Remington 870MCS] just like in previous few installments and based on the over all shape, however the other two factions lug semi automatic shotguns. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:28, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

::I'd never even heard of the QBS-09 before, so thanks for the links :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 20:51, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

Same about the QBS, neat. I'm positive thats an 870MCS as in the previous installments, perhaps its a place holder though. Interesting if they have it both with the Serbu 870.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 01:02, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

:I'm pretty sure QBS-09 wasn't seen anywhere outside of the few official press releases. This is definitely the first appearance in entertainment media. Not even sure if it was adopted besides for a few selected units and possibly pushed for police service. It's refreshing to see a rarity like this crop up. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 07:45, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

::oh... So, I didn't waste everyone's time?--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 11:08, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

==Paracel Storm Trailer==
HOLY CRAP. aside from the new guns (ACE 21, etc.) Did anyone else see the boat hit the shore and land in that building? So awesome...--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:45, 20 August 2013 (EDT)
:That was an awesome trailer, I didn't see any guns you missed. Here's the P226 in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEIWYgA2lbQ Premium trailer], at 0:51, and the UTS-15 in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guxDcKmhDLA Levolution trailer], at 0:42. Here's a [http://blogscdn.battlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Battlefield-4-Paracel-Storm-4-WM.jpg.jpg screenshot] revealing there's an M200. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:20, 20 August 2013 (EDT)

Think there was a modern AK12 derived Saiga in the base trailer, when the camera follows the soldier walking up a catwalk and gunning down his foe.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:54, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

It looked like an AK-12 firing shotgun rounds, which was weird, so that makes sense to me. The "MSMC" looks to actually be a CBJ-MS. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:04, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

== Every weapon in Battlefield 4 ==

So somebody at Gamespot managed to get a recording of the class customisation menu. They went through every weapon subset and a few of the attachment menus. Pretty much reveals everything except vehicle weaponry. I'm not sure if this can be added to the page (does it count as a leak?), but it's still interesting and it couldn't hurt to have it here anyway. Some of the guns have made up names (or are too obscure to be found in a quick google search) but there are four Ak-12 variants, the SAR-21 and a good amount of chinese weapons. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 13:21, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

[http://uk.gamespot.com/events/gamescom-2013/battlefield-4-every-class-every-weapon-every-unlock-6413393/ Video is here]

:To be honest, I'm disappointed with the selection. Most of the weapons are same (and look like re-used models as well) as in Battlefield 3, with very few additions. Then, again, they covered quite a lot of firearms there, so some were bound to re-appear. Hope the time and resources were put into making more maps and tools that are fun to play around with. There's also no designated launcher for the Chinese faction, so I assume Russians and Chinese will both share RPG-7V2. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 14:14, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

No MP7 but two UMP's and the SPAS 12 makes me a bit dissapoint, although they'll likely add more weapons. Also, didn't the Chinese engineer have his own launcher in the hi def faction screens. Also, the AK12 Saiga is the OBV 12, interesting.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:19, 21 August 2013 (EDT)
:: Youtube link if needed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLzYLTPN6Mw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 18:34, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

:::There's no way that's the final build, there's too much missing, like no Chinese launchers or G17 even though we saw them, no M1911 would just be silly, I could go on. I bet this is most of the weapons, say 2/3 or 3/4, but not all of them. Note that there is other stuff missing from the build too, like the F-22 (US is using the PAK-FA). The "SRR-61" is the M200 Intervention, as the that's in the build but not on the list, and the "SRR-61" says it has 7 rounds of .408. The "338-Recon" could be a lot of things. The "Compact 45" is likely an HK45C, BF doesn't use HK names after all, and they couldn't name it "M45C", as the M1911 variant in BF3 (and likely this one) is the M45. While the "Compact 45" is listed as having 15 round, that would be ridiculous, and is likely an oversight in the stats. The Galil ACEs are listed as 30 rounds, but do in fact have 35, as seen in the trailer, so some are wrong. Also, the HK45C takes 8 round magazines, which means they could have the M1911 along side it with no balance issues. I believe the rest of the guns are named properly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:11, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
::::The SVD-12 is likely an AK-12 DMR variant, rather than an actual SVD variant. If we're getting whole families of rifles like this (5 AK-12s, 4 Galils, the Q series) I hope we get the rest of the G36-series lineup in DLC. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:43, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::Not sure if [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QOPsp9pRnc8#t=196 this clip in this video] is from a longer one, but it shows that when you put a Heavy Barrel on a P90 it becomes a full auto PS90. HK45, not the C, as the "Compact 45" [http://i.imgur.com/PfN53FI.png confirmed]. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:07, 23 August 2013 (EDT)

== Some more weapon images ==

http://i.imgur.com/eqfdwoZ.jpg

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 03:03, 22 August 2013 (EDT)

== Article needs updating ==

People need to start looking for GamesCom multiplayer footage of the various new confirmed guns and put screencaps of them on this page. Come on, people, this article needs to be updated! [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 10:29, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:You do know that you can do it yourself, instead of asking someone ELSE to do it. Maybe you should have a look at the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#No_page_vandalism|rules]] again... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:52, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
::That's the thing: no, I can't. I don't know how to do. Also, how have I committed vandalism, exactly? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 13:00, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:::If you want something screencapped but don't know how to do it, the correct thing to do would be to ask for advice on how to do it, rather than badger other people to do it for you. I suggest you read the [[IMFDB Screencapping Guide]]. Assuming the video you are talking about is on youtube, you can even do it as simply as just pausing it, print screening and cropping in paint. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:19, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
::::The screencapping guide contains a link to Fast Stone Image Viewer, which is free and far superior to MS Paint. The guide also details how to take screen captures with Fast Stone Image Viewer. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:25, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::How do I put the images on the site once I've captured them? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 13:39, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
::::::Go to the panel on the left and look under "Toolbox" and click on "Upload file." Browse to the file you want to upload (or drag and drop onto that box,) then tag the image in the summary box below (for example, <nowiki>[[Category: Screenshot]]</nowiki> for screenshots,) and then click on upload. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:16, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::::How do I delete an uploaded file that's named wrong? Or just change the name of it? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 09:55, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
::You can either use the move tool or you can tag it for deletion with <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki> and reupload. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 10:49, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:::How do I do that? Where do I find the move tool and how do I tag it with <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki>? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 10:51, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
::::Actually, I just figured out how to do the latter. Still would like to know how to do the former, though! :) [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 11:28, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::If you click on an image, look at the tabs at the top of the page, and you'll see a tab for move. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 11:46, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:The article needs updating again. It's not going to stay like this forever, is it? Am I going to have to do this by myself again, or are someone else going to pitch in? Because I did pretty much all of the updating after GamesCom! [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 17:25, 7 November 2013 (EST)

== Another 93R ==

Not sure if this is a correct model but another incarnation of the 93R is seen here:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0H9lXzp6MmM&feature=relmfu

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 02:17, 1 September 2013 (EDT)

== No M16A3 for BF4 multiplayer ==

The M16A3 is removed from BF4 multiplayer. the M16 model seen on recent gameplay is actually mislabeled and is now corrected as the three round burst M16A4.

You can read about this here:
http://pixelenemy.com/m16a3-removed-from-battlefield-4-multiplayer-dice-confirms/

[[User:Dangerman1973|Dangerman1973]] ([[User talk:Dangerman1973|talk]]) 02:09, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

FUCK.YES (pardon the french)[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 09:16, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

::What the heck, was the M16A3 really so annoying? Me and my friends, we have never even heard of this "controversy", and we play on multiple paltforms... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:14, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

:::yeah, same here, I don't recall it having really low recoil... I couldn't kill anyone with the M16A3. I just used the a4.--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:09, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

From the looks of things in a few recent videos the M4A1 is out and the M4 is replacing it too, so it will be the dedicated burst/semi Carbine. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] ([[User talk:5t3v0|talk]]) 14:49, 18 September 2013 (EDT)

== Fire selectors? ==

Does anyone know if BF4 will feature correct fire selectors that visibly change on the weapon model depending on current fire mode? I was hoping to see this. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 17:55, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

== GP-30 Confirmed ==
And a brief glimpse of the Five-seveN in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_dacA-ZEWQ this video], second halfish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:58, 24 September 2013 (EDT)

== Cocking the RPG-7's hammer? ==

Ok, guys, I got the beta, and while using the RPG, I've noticed that after loading the rocket, you cock the hammer on the grip (a detail that I've not seen any game include so far). Just something I thought was interesting. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 01:05, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

:I thought that was the safety lever.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:37, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

::Nope, it was the hammer. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:20, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

== Bullpups less accurate than other assault rifles ==

I have noticed that the stats for the bullpups in-game have an accuracy of 45 while other assault rifles have 50. Which brings me to a question, what is the logic behind that? Because in reality, bullpups are supposed to be shorter in overall length while retaining standard barrels to retain the accuracy.

The SAR 21 and AUG A3 has a barrel length of 508mm, the FAMAS 488mm, and the QBZ 95 463mm.
However, the HK416 has a barrel length of 409mm, or 505mm at best, the SCAR H, 400mm barrel, the AEK 971 420mm and the AK12 415mm.

As a matter of fact, all the bullpup rifles has longer barrels than it's counterpart (with the exception of M16A4).
How in the world can DICE allow the bullpups to have lower ADS accuracy than the others? It would have been the total opposite in real life.

If any, they should make reloading bullpups longer due to the magazine behind the trigger.--[[User:ZuluSix|ZuluSix]] ([[User talk:ZuluSix|talk]]) 12:16, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
:I've heard (never having fired one myself) that bullpups tend to have crappy triggers, which might affect accuracy. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:21, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
::In BF3 all bullpups had better hipfire accuracy, so this is likely a balance to that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:27, 4 November 2013 (EST)
:::But why hipfire? Hipfiring is so damn inaccurate anyway so I don't consider that a form of balance. Having fired the SAR 21 and the M16, I don't find much difference in the trigger pull, but the SAR 21 definitely has a very good CG, it rests perfectly balanced on the master hand so I don't see how that is not a plus to the accuracy. [[User:ZuluSix|ZuluSix]] ([[User talk:ZuluSix|talk]]) 03:30, 10 November 2013 (EST)

By virtue of locating the trigger further from the ammunition (and thus the firing pin) than a conventional rifle (or even one that loads in the pistol grip), the trigger pull on bullpup-configuration firearms is less "user-friendly" than on conventional firearms (because the trigger has to move a longer mechanism to activate the firing pin on a bullpup rather than a conventional rifle). If we ever switch to electronically-fired weapons or man-portable directed-energy weapons, their layout (relative to where the trigger and the ammunition is located) will become moot with regards to trigger pull because they will no longer require mechanical firing pins. By the way, I've read user complaints about how many bullpup firearms don't have adjustable buttstocks (the magazine gets in the way), which makes them less comfortable to reload and less user-friendly when used with body armour, but that's not likely going to be changed anytime soon or be reflected in the game itself.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 05:07, 10 November 2013 (EST)
:You do still get bullpups with a perfectly fine trigger pull, it is only really particularly a problem with bullpups that are modified version of standard layout weapons as these tend to have a sub-optimal trigger linkage. On these these the linkage is quite often a piece of stiff wire with bends in it so there is a lot of potential for it to flex, on better design the linkage is a straight flat steel bar that has no flex so the trigger pull is similar to that of a normal rifle (possibly slightly heavier, but without the long sloppy travel of the typical bullpup conversions). If anything bullpups should be more accurate than their comparable contemporaries as they have a longer barrel which should be more accurate and give you more muzzle velocity. For example the SA80 series is very accurate, so much so that when it was introduced the marksman tests had to be revised as it was consistently out shooting the L1A1 SLR to the point where everyone was getting top marks (part of this was due to the SUSAT, but even without it is still a very accurate weapon). If they have a worse trigger pull, it really doesn't effect accuracy much in the situations where assault rifles are used anyway. There is the possibility that bullpups will have more muzzle climb in automatic though due to the centre of gravity being further back so there is less weight keeping the muzzle down. However this balances out with the fact that by necessity bullpups need to have a straight through design with the barrel in line with the shoulder, and personally I actually liked the weight being far back as I find it keeps it seated nicely in my shoulder and is more manoeuvrable, but that is more a personal preference thing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 07:37, 10 November 2013 (EST)
The barrel length of a bullpup depends on the specific model being discussed. Sure, the L85A2 has a 20.4-inch barrel, a little more than an M16. The FN F2000 has a 16-inch barrel, and the Micro-Tavor (the new standard-issue weapon for the IDF) has only a 13-inch barrel, the Israelis apparently satisfied with something possessing less barrel length than the M4 carbine. And accuracy is more than just a factor of barrel length; assuming the same cartridge loading, a firearm with a longer barrel should (up to the point before barrel friction starts overpowering the force of the expanding propellant gas) impart a flatter trajectory to a bullet than a shorter one does, but there are other factors, such as the kind of cartridge (why else do they sell "match-grade ammo"?) and the kind of sights. The fact that no bullpup I've seen comes with an adjustable buttstock could be a factor for "user-friendliness" (not to mention the shorter overall length means you often can't find the room for a foregrip that really fits you), but that's not something that you can really model in a game.

It's too bad that the BF series (aside from the [[Project Reality]] mod) doesn't emulate bayonets. That would be a definite advantage conventional rifles would have over bullpups, due to their greater overall length. Project Reality even lets you smack around opposing player characters with Tavor buttstrokes, too--something I would think must be easier with longer conventional rifles. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 15:13, 23 November 2013 (EST)

== China Rising & Second Assault ==

Figured you guys might like to know, but I recently found some additional information for weapons for the DLC packs China Rising in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox3g_8WF67s as well as info on Second Assault which are below:

China Rising:
* L85
* L96
* MTAR
* RPK
* MP7

Second Assault:
* AS VAL
* F2000

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 15:04, 14 November 2013 (EST)

:The M60E4 was seen in a trailer too, so it's likely in Second Assault. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 00:07, 17 November 2013 (EST)

As a sort of strange aside, the orange presumably "placeholder camo" on all the China Rising weapons as of now gives the impression that the RPK is an original RPK-74 rather than an M model. Why is it, exactly, that we would require the RPK-12 and RPK-74 if they would presumably fill the same function, unless this RPK is an original model firing 7.62x39mm cartridges? --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] ([[User talk:Dirty Harold|talk]]) 12:47, 19 November 2013 (EST)

There was an update for BF4 on PC, where all of the China Rising weapons are available. The RPK is the RPK-74, with the awesome wood furniture on it. So, apparently they wanted to make the RPK-12 and RPK-74 extremely similar. But I do like the new RPK, and all of the guns are fun to use. I hope they add some more guns in Second Assault, like an actual AK47 with wood furniture, and other fun things. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 19:05, 21 November 2013 (EST)

== All Battlefield 4 Weapons video ==

A guy on YouTube named "MAR89TUM" does videos showcasing all weapons in a video game, and he just completed his Battlefield 4 video a few hours ago. I thought I'd share it with you guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A86pF20anB8

[[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 12:30, 20 November 2013 (EDT)

:Saved for later because it's really long, but thanks for sharing :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:27, 20 November 2013 (EST)

::MAR89TUM made two more videos, one for China Rising and another for Second Assault.
::China Rising: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyygTCsJ9T8
::Second Assault: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KCT7bslmZI
::[[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 8:43, 19 February 2014 (EST)

== FN F2000 ==

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4qVx3Pvfu4

I'm assuming the F2000 Tactical is also going to be in there.

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 13:44, 20 November 2013 (EST)

:Gameplay with the scope, yay! I bet the scope is the F2000's iron sights, and if you attach any other optic it becomes the Tactical. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:25, 20 November 2013 (EST)

::I don't have Battlefield 4 yet, but from research I've done I've found that it is a F2000 Tactical, but there is a optic attachment unique to the weapon called "F2000 (x1.6)" and attaching it to the F2000 Tactical transforms it into the original F2000. Attaching any other optic or leaving it as iron sights keeps it as the Tactical. [[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 1:23, 6 December 2013 (EST)

== JS2 ==
I've figured out what's up with the JS2. Okay, first, part of the problem is that IMFDB's entry for the variant is wrong, it's "JS 9mm" (or "Jian She JS 9mm" if you want to include the company name), that's the name; "Type-05" is not a thing, that doesn't exist. Second, the description is also wrong, the JS isn't just a QCW-05 in 9mm. It's based on it, but it's smaller, along with having a flattop and built-in foregrip. It's part of the same family, but not the same gun. So the JS is its own gun, smaller and with a flattop and foregrip. With that out of the way we can talk about what the JS2 is. The JS2 is a fictional future variant of the JS (thus the name) chambered in 5.8mm that fires from a closed bolt, with the charging handle on the left side, and with the suppressor removed. Also, I just happened across a bunch of pictures and a video of Chinese police with JSs without suppressors, so I'm not sure lack of a suppressor is that notable. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 04:37, 21 November 2013 (EST)

== Burst Fire - Why do so many games get it so WRONG? ==

As I understand it, burst firing weapons (like the M16A2 or MP5A4 for instance) were first introduced to *save* ammo, rather than waste it. I just can't figure out why game designers would decide that making the gun fire a *minimum* of three rounds per trigger pull would be a better idea than allowing any number up to three?
I know that HK weapons with burst fire don't act like this in real life, or M16A2/A4s/M4s - Is there such a thing as a real world firearm that does not allow its wielder to fire less than three shots when set to burst fire? [[User:Stickie|Stickie]] ([[User talk:Stickie|talk]]) 07:02, 1 December 2013 (EST)

Far Cry 2 and 3 got it right with the 'AR16' and FAMAS respectively, and I know 007 Nightfire on the Gamecube had plenty of burst weapons capable that could be single shot if you tapped the trigger gently. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:34, 1 December 2013 (EST)

== Missing Second Assault weapons ==

Hello, everyone. As I'm sure most of you know, the Second Assault DLC has been out for a while now. There were 5 weapons that got added in this DLC
*DAO-12 (apologies, I've kinda forgotten what shotgun it's based on)
*Gol Magnum
*M60E3
*F2000
*AS VAL
If anyone can help me get some images for these weapons, I would really appreciate it --[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:47, 4 December 2013 (EST)

I think the main reason the Second Assault weapons haven't been added, this is just a thought, but it hasn't been released on PC yet. The biggest BF4 audience is on PC, and we got screwed. China Rising weapons have been available on PC for about 3 weeks, so those should be here soon. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 17:45, 4 December 2013 (EST)

:ah, alright then. I'll be patient...--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 11:08, 5 December 2013 (EST)

::I assume all our screenshots come from PC, mostly because of how much easier it is to do that, but also for the best resolution. If I played on PC I'd do lots of screencapping, but I can't :( [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:58, 5 December 2013 (EST)

== Reloads ==

I find it strange that some of the guns that have ambidextrous charging handles use the right side only. I first noticed this with the AK-12, where the reload animation uses the left hand to go under the gun and chamber a round from the right side. It is odd for the devs to put in the ambi charging handles, and then act as if they're not there. But they could use an animation from a previous game, who knows. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 22:27, 7 December 2013 (EST)

== Assault Rifle Stats ==

As some people have pointed out, the stats for the assault rifles seem as though they were not thought out. The bullpups have less accuracy, but theoretically have the same barrel length as a rifle chambered for the same round. For example, the SAR-21 has an accuracy rating of 45, while the HK416 has a rating of 50. And the L85A2 has an accuray rating of 35, which is less than most of the carbines. The M16A4 has less stability than most other rifles, most likely due to the 20 inch barrel, but it gains nothing in accuracy. Speaking of stability, the AK-12 is tied with the QBZ-95-1 for second best stability (rating of 70), only being beaten by the SAR-21. Why does the AK-12 have more stability that the HK416(I mainly ask because I love that rifle)? The AK-12 has a 16 inch barrel, while the HK416 utilizes the 14.5 inch barrel in this game, so I don't understand that. The ACE 23 is a super-gun in the game. It has a great rate of fire, awesome accuracy, and almost no recoil. I hate the ACE 23. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 22:41, 7 December 2013 (EST)
:Most video game designers, like most Hollywood writers don't actually know anything about firearms.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 00:37, 8 December 2013 (EST)
::A few things. Those stat bars, like in almost every game, are half wrong, don't trust them. The reduced accuracy of bullpups is because it's a trade off for their better hipfire accuracy, it highlights their good performance in CQB due to their shorter length. In terms of stability, recoil is directly proportional and opposite to rate of fire, the visual appearance of the gun doesn't factor in. Since gameplay balance has to exist, it's far better to play with less obvious traits like accuracy, hipfire, recoil, muzzle velocity, reload time, and such rather than the more important things like mag capacity, rate of fire, and damage, the three most important things, as those three are what ties the gun to actually representing its real counterpart. The ACE 23 isn't godly, but it is the single most all-round gun in the game, with the natural advantages and disadvantages that come with being the most jack-of-all-trades. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:29, 8 December 2013 (EST)

==CZ-75==

The CZ in the game is not a PHANTOM, but the steel framed SP-01 Tactical. I'm not going to change it yet as we do not have a picture of the SP-01 Tac yet, and the two models are remarkably similar in looks. But I might change the entry and description here shortly. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 14:51, 9 December 2013 (EST)

Actually its not a Tactical. Its a CZ SP-01 Shadow. Tactical denotes it is a decocker model. The in game render clearly shows the extended shadow safety. [[User:Furious Oyster|Furious Oyster]] ([[User talk:Furious Oyster|talk]]) 19:57, 9 December 2013 (EST)FuriousOyster
:Beat me by literally a couple seconds. The Shadow is seen [http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/featured_handguns_hg_cz_usa_cz_75_sp01_shadow_082710/ here] and [http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu76.htm here].--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 20:01, 9 December 2013 (EST)

Well Gentlemen, I stand corrected. That's another reason I didn't change the entry; I know almost nothing about CZ handguns. I simply looked at CZ's current lineup, and found the Tac looks nearly identical to the one in game. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 15:43, 10 December 2013 (EST)
:I think CZ discontinued it because it's no longer on their website, but I'm also not a CZ guy.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 22:29, 10 December 2013 (EST)
::Quote from the first link up there: "The Shadow is available only through CZ Custom, which is the factory custom shop for CZ products in the States." That's likely why it's not on the website. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:00, 11 December 2013 (EST)

Yep, here they are: http://czcustom.com/CZ75_SP01_SHADOW_CustomShop.aspx Though I can't find a version chambered in .40, it's a custom pistol to begin with. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 14:40, 11 December 2013 (EST)

== Missing stuff ==

Hello again. I've noticed a couple things missing from the page. Namely, the RGO grenade, the Type 85 HMG, and the chain gun on the ZBD-09

That's all I needed to say.--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 14:04, 12 December 2013 (EST)

== Rifle Scopes ==
The 8x "Rifle Scope" is very distinctive an has a distinctive mount, but I don't know what it is. It's marked with "Visionzone" and "1.5-5x". The 20x "Hunter", which is the same scope as BF3's 6x/8x "Rifle Scope", is marked only with "Delta Corp", and I'm not sure what it is either. The 40x "Ballistic" is actually a Schmidt & Bender/Premier Reticles M8541, which is 3-12x50. "Schmidt & Bender" (misspelled as "Schmitd"), "Premier Reticles", "M8541", and "3-12x50" can all be seen on it in-game. It's the standard scope for the USMC's M40s. Anyone else know anything about these? Also, while not at all BF4 related, does anyone know what [http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/tokyo-marui-3-9x40-pro-scope-zoom.html#.UriQ6bTN2sE this scope] made by Tokyo Marui is based on? It would be helpful for a different article (and for me) :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:31, 23 December 2013 (EST)

== UTS-15 ==

Isn't it considered strange how the UTS-15 is reloaded (one shell in the left tube, one in the right, one left, one right, etc.) rather than loading 7 shells in one tube first then 7 in the other? Or was this done on purpose considering the real weapon's functionality? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 12:54, 30 December 2013 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure they could have done it either way, but alternating looks more interesting ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:11, 30 December 2013 (EST)

::But alternating makes the reload slower. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:06, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:::It could be something to do with how the reload animations work, as in if it is just a cycle that can be aborted at any point this may be simpler than having to do a specific number of shells in one tube and then the same in the other. This does however lead to the bizarre situation where the guy is opening and closing the loading port covers for every shell, as opposed to just once per tube. Regardless, it is actually really difficult to reload a UTS-15 with a partial magazine (I would imagine near impossible with gloves like the player model is wearing), so any kind of speedy reload is inaccurate. The thing with the UTS-15 tubes is that they only really hold six, with the seventh being placed behind the loading door, which when closed allows the follower/shells to advance into the loading port in effect making the tube longer that it is. This means that when you open the door to top up a partial tube, you would be presented with the front half of the rear round and the back half of the second. You would first need to push the second round forward until it was latched in the tube, and then wiggle the rear round to get it out of the rear of the loading port to the point where you could then put it into the tube, and then you can load as normal. As you would need to do this for both tubes, you are looking at a total of somewhere between 5 and 10 seconds of fiddling time without even loading any new rounds. To me it would seem like the easier way would be to just open the top cover and load both tubes direct without fannying about with the loading door covers or the bizarre follower arrangement, but as I haven't handled one of these myself and can find no mention online of people doing it this way, perhaps there is a reason this wouldn't work (aside from wearing out the detent on the top cover making it pop open even more regularly than it already does). To me this gun falls into the same category of the SPAS-12, in that it looks great in games and films/TV, but it is actually a total POS in real life. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:57, 30 December 2013 (EST)

== Major Updates to LMG Section ==

Finished updating LMG section and will bring other sections to this standard in the near future. Also plan on updating customization screenshots (will take longer for this). Major changes in LMG section:

*Added intro section with in-game characteristics of LMGs
*Mk 46 changed to M249 with explanation
*RPK-74M changed to RPK with explanation
*Brief background info on all weapons
*Noted minor errors for some weapons (like +1 on the open bolt Ultimax)
*Removed all comments related to pre-release, such as "the dogtag appears in Battlelog"

The M249 has it's carry handle in gameplay, though it seems to have been missing the pre-release screen shots.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:41, 6 January 2014 (EST)
*Fixed, thanks. I think it's just the third person model that is missing the handle.

== Benelli M3 ==

The promo image for Player appreciation month seems to have a tactical M3.
Link http://gyazo.com/b649794667495511898e614c2b1f3b75.png
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:22, 6 February 2014 (EST)

:Yep, but that's an older promo image they just apparently wanted to use. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 04:18, 7 February 2014 (EST)

::It's an airsoft M3 (it's pretty much the most common airsoft shotgun), like the other "real" guns are, and it's been used in quite a few different places, including in-game somewhere in the Premium menu. I think it's worth noting, as we noted Recker's G17 on the cover. Also, the G18 in-game is actually a 17 with the selector pasted on to it, you can tell because sometimes you can see through between the slide and switch, and because the cocking serrations don't stop around the switch. Also, as a 17, it's the campaign pistol prop, being used every time there's a pistol except Dunn's REX in the first mission and M9s used by the US scouts that you encounter later. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:33, 7 February 2014 (EST)

== Second Assault Release Date & Naval Strike Weapons ==

Given that Second Assault will finally be coming February 18th the addition of the Second Assault Weapons will be added these include:

* F2000
* AS VAL
* M60-E4
* GOL Magnum
* DAO-12 (Armsel Striker)
* Mk.19 GMG (mounted on the returning DPV vehicle in replacement of the M2 .50 CAL)

Additionally EA and DICE have mentioned Naval Strike being released in late March. It also states an additional 5 new weapons, 2 new gadgets, an "amphibious attack hovercraft" and 4 new maps Lost Islands, Nansha Strike, Wave Breaker and Operator Mortar.
Two of the gadgets stated for Naval Strike include a new grenade launcher attachment for the Assault called the 3GL (which leads many theories on it being the Metal Storm 3GL semi-auto grenade launcher) and a anti-helicopter projectile type mine used by the Engineer Kit.

In a side note I'm also excited for the return for "Carrier Assault" which is DICE's re-imagined version of Battlefield 2142 Titan Mode. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2014 (EST)

== Potential Scar-H goof? ==
I don't have the image to show it and I don't know much about the AAC 51T MITER, but I don't think a comp can be attached to the MITER. I noticed that the other day when I was customizing my Scar-H in the game. Can anyone can anyone confirm?
[[User:DarksamuraiX1999|DarksamuraiX1999]] ([[User talk:DarksamuraiX1999|talk]]) 2040, 17 February 2014 (PST)

== Naval Strike ==
[http://blogscdn.battlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Battlefield-4-Naval-Strike-Hovercraft_WM1.png ARX-160 confirmed] as Naval Strike's AR. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 20:09, 28 February 2014 (EST)

Dat posture. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:52, 1 March 2014 (EST)

:Yeah, why is the character gripping the magazine and the foregrip instead of the rear pistol grip and the foregrip? Weird. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 01:35, 1 March 2014 (EST)

Added it in. [[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 01:00, 1 March 2014 (EST)

The entirety of the NS content was added yesterday, guns, assignments, camos, etc. The ARX-160 appears as the "AR160", the PDW is the SR-2M as the "SR-2" (likely an oversight rather than intentionally different), the MG is the Shrike AAR as the "AWS", I nor any of the community on the forums could nail down the sniper rifle, which is a semi auto .338 called the "SR338" (not helpful), and finally the Rhino revolver appears as the "SW40" as the fifth weapon. Also, in the patch along with loads of balance changes and fixes, the ones relevant to this page are that the L85's rate of fire was reduced from 800 to 750 and burst mode was removed, and the QSZ-92 now correctly holds 20+1. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5-8Mnq_nNw NS stuff video.] [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:00, 5 March 2014 (EST)

the SR338 appears to be this http://wethearmed.com/rifles/semi-auto-338-lapua/--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] ([[User talk:Anarchy66660|talk]]) 19:07, 5 March 2014 (EST)

Talk:Battlefield 4

2014-03-06T00:07:59Z

Anarchy66660: /* Naval Strike */

== Leaks ==

http://www.overclock.net/t/1375494/neogaf-leaked-bf4-screens
Looks like M249E3 and M4(?) with MoH:WF influence.
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

== 17-minute gameplay ==

The first 17 minutes of gameplay have been released now. I've added myself some guns in the page and if someone thinks some guns are wrong, feel free to change it since I'm still a novice when it comes to identify guns in games. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 10:26, 27 March 2013 (EDT)
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HVQXkeU8U

== Shorty shotgun ==

The shorty shotgun could also be the same breacher-configured 870 MCS from ''Warfighter''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:03, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

== M249E3 Para SAW / Mk 46 Mod 0 Hybrid ==

Do you guys think that the machine gun Irish is carrying it's actually a hybrid between a M249E3 Para SAW and a Mk 46 Mod 0? I've watched the gameplay video a couple times and I can't really see it the machine gun has a STANAG well under the belt to see that is a cross between the two weapons. For the time being I just added the machine gun to the page as an Mk 46 Mod 0, although I'm not sure if you can change its fixed stock for a collapsible and still call it an Mk 46 Mod 0. Here is a picture to take a look that I took from the Battlefield 4 site. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 09:17, 29 March 2013 (EDT) 
[[File:bf4 m249.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:It has a conventional M249 barrel and carry handle, both things lacked by the MK46. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 12:13, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::The Mod 1 variant restores the carry handle and barrels are interchangeable. The only telling features that distinguish an M249 from a Mk 46 are the magazine well (which we can't determine since no images of the left side of the gun are provided) and the vehicle mounting lug, which the in-game gun noticeably lacks. This could very well be a true Mk 46, for once. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:13, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

:Also on the picture above Pac has an M4A1, it's seen in the gamplay trailer too. --[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 03:29, 4 April 2013 (EDT)

== Vehicle Mounted HMG ==

At 6.58 in the gameplay video, when Record engages the buggy with the Serbu Super Shorty, you see the HMG mounted above it. Is it a Dushka?
I'm rubbish with the whole screen-shot thing so I won't attempt that. It has just been bothering me. Thanks. --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] ([[User talk:Ritch|talk]]) 05:47, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

It's most likely a Kord HMG, just guessing from Russian vehicle armorments in previous games.--[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fan]] ([[User talk:AK-74Fan|talk]]) 12:01, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

Ahh right thanks! I have to admit, I am absolute rubbish at ID-ing HMG's. --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] ([[User talk:Ritch|talk]]) 10:52, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

== Have they learned their lessons from Battlefield 3? ==

Looking over the BF3 discussion page, I'm driven to wonder if DICE has learned their lessons from BF3's lifetime and are going to make this game better (at least with respect to emulating real-life firearms). I'd like to think they will--this website's popularity is rising, so more people are aware of DICE's shortcomings when it comes to realistic firearms than before. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 14:24, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

This could be because I'm SP-centric (and BF3 has been shelved since ''Warfighter'' came out), but the only weapon-related "shortcoming" I felt BF3 had was the use of M240Bs and so-called "M16A3s" (which I still have yet to see convincing proof is a flat top receiver when all the ''official'' sources say it's the same thing it was when first adopted--a fixed carry handle A2 upper) by the Marines. MP probably has more I'm either unaware of or have forgotten, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:04, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

:This is a pic of an M16A3 built under license by FN, I imagine that one could just slap an A4 upper on it and you have a flattop AR: [http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/untitled5cb1.jpg M16A3] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 11:08, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

::I've seen that one before. Changing a major component like that makes it ''not'' an M16A3 because it doesn't adhere to the military's A3 specification, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:33, 3 April 2013 (EDT)

:Gonna have to agree. DICE have been very accurate with weapon characteristics in BF3, give or take a few things. In comparison to other FPS, BF3 already stood head and shoulders above. Fire selectors and bolt releases were missing, along with certain Only Warfighter has had the hyper-realism I've always been looking for (except for AK variants, but I don't mind >.>), and I'm sure DICE will bring at least some of that back into BF4. --[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 20:45, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

== More weapons shown ==

Some new pics show the weapon loadout screens but they're watermarked to hell and back.

http://i.imgur.com/Ef1eymph.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m6NUETrh.jpg

CZ-805

Beretta M9

Scorpion EVO A3

Magpul PDR-C

QBZ-95

Type 88 LMG

QSZ-92

SV-98

QBU-88

Scout Elite

Ultimax 100 Mk5
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:00, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

The Czechnology seems to be getting around.But oh great, 4 classes...again. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:24, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

:I don't know about you, but I think it would be hard to snipe with no arms. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 21:59, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

The Ak5c and the Saiga can be added to the page right now. They are seen in the new "Angry Sea" video. I also caught a fleeting glimpse of what looked to be the H&K XM25 launcher during the E3 live stream. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 17:15, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

I think the Magpul PDR-C is just a placeholder for the Scorpion EVO A3--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:50, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== E3 footage ==

Now that EA has shown some new footage of Battlefield 4 during this year E3, some new weapon appear on the video. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 15:26, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Singleplayer 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEZhbV9s1Ag

Multiplayer 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nJY7n8KaOY
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSykcTGrNc
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgZTeVnM5Sw

Saw this on the BF wiki, during the counter knife sequence, "Press F to pickup P90" can be seen.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130611030437/battlefield/images/thumb/1/1c/Knifecounter.png/640px-Knifecounter.png
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

:Good catch there! You can see P90 (along with a QB series weapon on the right) more clearly in this screenshot: http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/1/1d/Siege_of_Shanghai_1.jpg --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:08, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Also saw an XM-25 in June 12 livestream http://gyazo.com/ec33d8c85bc8c3c981fde636cc1a3ffe.png [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 15:45, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== Kel Tec RFB ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-cJhOCd7GY

Also the text here says QBZ-95-1 but the 5.56A-91 image is subbed in: http://imgur.com/a/oBF5P#6nlAhND
[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 14:04, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

YES! FINALLY! I've been waiting for a RFB, and in battlefield no less![[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 23:08, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

:That photo album also confirms the QSZ-92, which isn't a surprise, but it's nice to see there's at least one new pistol. I hope it's the 5.8mm, 20-round version for the sake of variety. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 03:18, 17 June 2013 (EDT)

== 40mm vs. Havoc in Baku ==

"Gee, I really wish I had a 40mm ''before'' that helicopter blew everything up. Oh, wait, I did."--[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] ([[User talk:Animalmenace|talk]]) 08:35, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Wrecker was a ''little'' busy avoiding being turned into salsa by the helicopter. Probably didn't want to spend much time trying to line up a shot to the cockpit with a grenade launcher. Even if he were firing HEDP grenades like the M433 or even the new "HELLHOUND" grenade, I seriously doubt he could have stopped a Havoc with a grenade - unless he happened to hit it right in the cockpit with it. The opportunity to do just that doesn't happen until the thing comes down to the deck to finish off the car. (Pilot got cocky I guess. Well, his canopy ''can'' stop rifle rounds, guess he figured he was okay.) [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] ([[User talk:Atypicaloracle|talk]]) 06:42, 22 June 2013 (EDT)

== Alpha Code Leak ==
Here's the link: http://pastebin.com/MX9mBuzJ
I'll post what's relevant, though the it can be a bit confusing at times. The Starstreak, a British MANPADS with three mini-missiles that launch after the main missile reaches max speed, will be in. Both the M15 and M34 smoke grenades are mentioned. We already knew about the MBT LAW, right? M82A3 (yes!), FAMAS, M40A5, 870, UMP, OMFG-148 Javelin. The XM25 will have both standard airburst, and smoke airburst grenades. The M320 has the same four ammo types as BF3, with the addition of 40mm flashbangs. In the optics section, there's a "visionking", even though the model can't be known yet, I bet it's the 20x scope. There are 1x, 3x, 4x, 6x, 8x, 20x, and 40x scopes, as well as "ugl", which is likely just the M320's sights. I think the 8x is just a left over from BF3, as we know we're getting 6x and 20x options for sniper rifles, and the adjustable zoom attachment adds 14x to whichever you have, so 6x & 14x, or 14x & 20x. Since it sounds like th M82 will always have a scope and bipod, which means it's likely not customizable, I bet it will have to have a 40x scope at all times, as part of its balance. That's everything relevant to us that I could find. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:14, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

I've talked to an alpha player, said the Barrett is a stationary weapon if I'm not mistaken. Also saw the UTAS sight right before visionking.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 18:17, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

The Barrett ''should'' be a stationary weapon, not something you can run around all willy-nilly with. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:23, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

:Right, the UTAS, that's what I missed when writing this. From what I've read, the M82 is a pickup weapon that's on the map, like the Ceph weapons in Crysis 3. Per these stats it does 110 damage, has no damage drop over range, but roughly a five second reload. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:00, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

== Battlelog inventory screen ==

http://s22.postimg.org/unc6vxf1t/bf4.jpg

The latest Battlelog trailer showing all the apps and stuff had someone choosing their loadout. AK-12 featured prominently.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 16:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

Hm, I didn't know the FAMAS looked like a SCAR. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 13:27, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:SAR-21? Cool! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:09, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:@Pyramid, they've been using placeholder icons since the alpha.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 16:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

I hope to God the M16 isn't the A3 in final, also in the trailer we see an "M14A3", possible typo?[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 08:39, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

::That's definitely a typo for the M16A3. Also, it has to be in, the US needs a full-auto AR. And while some people here seem to think otherwise, there are two different rifles that got the "A3" designation, the first being a full-auto A2, the other being a full-auto A4. They have different Colt model numbers, but are both A3s as far as the military is concerned. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:37, 28 July 2013 (EDT)
:::The "M16A3" is so damn confusing. I am currently of the opinion that there are actually 3 different US military issue rifles that are all the A3. The first is the Colt made M16A2E3 which was introduced in 1992 I think. This had a standard A2 upper along with an A1 style lower (no A2 strengthening points) and was stamped A2E3. Then you have the M16A3 that was made after this that had an A2 style lower (but with burst replaced by auto and stamped as the M16A3) and an A2 upper. I think these were made from 1994 and all of these were made by FN, but not sure. Finally you have the debatable flat top upper one. Annoyingly, from Googling I can't find any pictures of this actually being used, but I am about 99% sure it exists. I believe that all of the M16A3s that were ordered post OIF are the flat top kind, and they are mainly a mix of FN and Sabre Defence made rifles. I remember seeing a picture of one of the Sabre Defence guns and it was flat top with a railed handguard, and as the order for 5000 or so M16A3s from them was in 2008, I would be amazed if the US military was buying any rifle without a sight rail then. Similarly, there have been orders from FN for the M16A3 as recently as 2010, and again I don't believe that they would still be buying carry handle uppers at this point. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:13, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
::::Found some proof that a flat top M16A3 exists in [http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk148/pezboytate/Firearms/m16a3sabredefense.jpg this] photo. It is a Sabre Defence Gun marked as M16A3, property of US Government, S/1/F selector, railed handguard and flat top A4 style upper receiver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:37, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::Not an M16A3, it's just had parts swapped out. The A3 was an A2 with an S/1/F lower when it was adopted in the 90s and it remains this today. This was told to me by active duty US Navy SEAL just this morning. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:12, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
::::::Do you seriously think the US government would be buying an AR-15 platform without a flat top as late as 2010 (FN and Colt were awarded contracts including M16A3s in 2007, Sabre Defence got one in 2008, and FN got another in 2010)? I think the majority that are around are still the older A3s with the carry handle, but I think the newer ones like this have a flat top. Note that it has a Shot Show tag on it, I doubt that they would be showing off a random franken-gun at their booth as opposed to their newest government contract. [http://www.guns.com/reviews/sabre-defence-m16a3/ Here] is another photo of the Sabre Defence version showing the whole gun. I don't know if the contract was fully completed before Sabre Defence went belly up, however there has been a new contract with FN since this point, so can only assume that the FN guns would be built to the same or better spec than these as opposed to taking a step backwards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:50, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::To make things even more confusing, the picture in that link shows a flattop M16, but all the text and stats imply it has an A2 upper. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:29, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I don't know why they're still buying rifles in that configuration, but [http://seabeemagazine.navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/05/17/nmcb-5-undergoes-rifle-quals-in-okanawa/ they are]. I can swap out the upper receiver group and buttstock on an M4 to give it a 24" barrel and a PRS buttstock, would that make you think "new" M4s are being procured as DMRs instead of carbines? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:35, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
::::::::A few points. Firstly that doesn't say anything about what configuration the rifles that are currently built are in, just that there are rifles in the inventory that have the fixed carry handle. As I said before, I think the majority of rifles in circulation will have the A2 upper, it will only be the newest ones that have the A4 style ones. Secondly, if I had to guess I would say that those are not the newer guns made by FN or Sabre Defense. If you look at the finish it is gray, particularly when you compare it to the M4 which is in one of the photos which is much blacker in comparison. I believe that current FN and Sabre Defense guns (along with current Colt ones I think) have a black finish, whereas the gray was on older Colt guns. Lastly, I don't see what you are getting at with the last point about switching out the upper. Are you saying that people are doing this to M16A3s, or that the pictures of the Sabre Defense gun are a case of this? If the latter than I don't think this is the case, as firstly they are pictures provided by Sabre Defense to show off the fact they are (were) making M16A3s for the military so I doubt it would be a random cobbled together gun, particularly as it has the US Gov and M16A3 markings. Another thing to bear in mind, is that for these recent orders they were combined with orders for M16A4s. If they are making M16A4s I imagine it would be cheaper to be producing flat top A3s than carry handle ones, as the upper would be common between the two variants without having to tool up and run a whole separate production line. Again, I find it hard to believe that the Navy would pay more for something with less utility. Maybe the new ones do have a fixed carry handle, but to me it makes no logical sense why they would choose to do this, and from the evidence I can find the rifles that Sabre Defense made to the US Government spec had a flat top when they were made in 2008. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:37, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
:: SCAR-L or HK416 works fine imo, also the M4 will be all kit as a carbine so I'd rather not have the same game of Assault spam again.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:11, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

== MGL Reload ==
Someone added that you only reload three shells, but I think they were being loaded two at a time. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:08, 26 July 2013 (EDT)

== Character Model Images ==
I had heard a rumour that the P226 was going to be in, [http://bf4talk.com/threads/battlefield-4-characters-hd.606/ but this confirms it.] About time a we see a SIG in a game again. My gut tells me it will be the .40 version, to bridge the gap between the standard issue 9mms (plus the G17), and the M1911; it would be a perfect fit in both damage and mag size. I don't have a link, but there are a few guns built into the Alpha that people have found; the ones we didn't know about (other than the P226, which is the railed version) are the Mx4 Storm and CS/LR4. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:12, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

It could also be a simple holster stuffer, too. This is hardly proof that the gun will be usable. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:00, 30 July 2013 (EDT)

::The P226 was found in the files along with the Mx4 and CS/LR4, as dog tags. [http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_4/comments/1h593e/heres_an_accurate_list_of_all_weaponsgadgets I found the sources.] [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:27, 30 July 2013 (EDT)

:::[http://i.imgur.com/DFMOy4p.jpg Here's] a leaked screenshot of the M82 from the Alpha. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:28, 1 August 2013 (EDT)

I don't think that character holding the LMG has enough American flags on his uniform. Jesus. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 06:15, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

== QBZ-95(-1?) and RPG-7 confirmed ==
Video from the Wintergore's channel (also shows the RPG-7):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzdSfV3e-VI

Video from the Levelcap's channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2F6B4Gtnhc

These are just a few videos that confirm the implementation of the QBZ-95 in BF4. Also Levelcap call it "QBZ-95-1", but I'm not sure that the rifle models are actually based on the newest QBZ-95 variant or they are just a modified version of the old QBB-95 models from BF3 ([[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]) 9:36, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

:Here's a [http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348580286883/ thread on Battlelog] that's compiled all of these clips that have been given to the community. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:11, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

== New Weapons ==
Remington 870, M40A5 (I'm assuming, I don't know exactly), the Hybrid M249 from the last Battlefield, AK-12, PKP Pecheneg, SV-98, Saiga 12k, QBZ-95 (unknown if it's the original or the QBZ-95-1) and the CS/LR4 are getting added
Proof:
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/f/fe/Battlefield_4_American_Character_Models.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/b/b2/Battlefield_4_Russian_Character_Models.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/3/31/Battlefield_4_Chinese_Character_Models.jpg
---[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 08:53, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

*ok, so apparently I'm EXTREMELY tardy to the party.... My bad. --[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:46, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

:It's a QBZ-95-1 (QBZ-95G alternatively) for sure. PLA engineer also sports a QBS-09 semi automatic shotgun. However, as refreshing that is to see, I wag my finger in disappointment at the Russian medic who forgot to pack up appropriate VOG-25 grenades for his trip. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 08:21, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

::ok, so there are some new things in there, right? I didn't just waste everyone's time?--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:35, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

:::I'm pretty sure QBS-09 was never seen before in any official or unofficial Battlefield 4 material. Haven't really been following it around, but any news around that are desirable. Thanks for posting these photos. There's also the rocket/missile launcher on the PLA engineers back. I'm pretty sure that's new, considering Alpha footage assigned good ol' RPG-7 to the Chinese. It could just be a Strela again or it's Chinese derivative. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:28, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

PK Pecheneg is new. US assault has a Glock (17?) in his chest again. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:09, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

:I don't know. I'm pretty sure PKP appeared in the installment beforehand, just not as a starting weapon for the class/kit in question. I think it will be interesting seeing three faction and how they play off each other, even if they'll probably end up being just reskined versions of each other in terms of vehicles and starting weapons. Can anybody ID the shotgun US soldier is carrying. I was inclined to think it's [http://www.imfdb.org/images/e/e9/Remington_870MCS.jpg Remington 870MCS] just like in previous few installments and based on the over all shape, however the other two factions lug semi automatic shotguns. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:28, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

::I'd never even heard of the QBS-09 before, so thanks for the links :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 20:51, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

Same about the QBS, neat. I'm positive thats an 870MCS as in the previous installments, perhaps its a place holder though. Interesting if they have it both with the Serbu 870.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 01:02, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

:I'm pretty sure QBS-09 wasn't seen anywhere outside of the few official press releases. This is definitely the first appearance in entertainment media. Not even sure if it was adopted besides for a few selected units and possibly pushed for police service. It's refreshing to see a rarity like this crop up. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 07:45, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

::oh... So, I didn't waste everyone's time?--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 11:08, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

==Paracel Storm Trailer==
HOLY CRAP. aside from the new guns (ACE 21, etc.) Did anyone else see the boat hit the shore and land in that building? So awesome...--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:45, 20 August 2013 (EDT)
:That was an awesome trailer, I didn't see any guns you missed. Here's the P226 in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEIWYgA2lbQ Premium trailer], at 0:51, and the UTS-15 in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guxDcKmhDLA Levolution trailer], at 0:42. Here's a [http://blogscdn.battlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Battlefield-4-Paracel-Storm-4-WM.jpg.jpg screenshot] revealing there's an M200. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:20, 20 August 2013 (EDT)

Think there was a modern AK12 derived Saiga in the base trailer, when the camera follows the soldier walking up a catwalk and gunning down his foe.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:54, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

It looked like an AK-12 firing shotgun rounds, which was weird, so that makes sense to me. The "MSMC" looks to actually be a CBJ-MS. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:04, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

== Every weapon in Battlefield 4 ==

So somebody at Gamespot managed to get a recording of the class customisation menu. They went through every weapon subset and a few of the attachment menus. Pretty much reveals everything except vehicle weaponry. I'm not sure if this can be added to the page (does it count as a leak?), but it's still interesting and it couldn't hurt to have it here anyway. Some of the guns have made up names (or are too obscure to be found in a quick google search) but there are four Ak-12 variants, the SAR-21 and a good amount of chinese weapons. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 13:21, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

[http://uk.gamespot.com/events/gamescom-2013/battlefield-4-every-class-every-weapon-every-unlock-6413393/ Video is here]

:To be honest, I'm disappointed with the selection. Most of the weapons are same (and look like re-used models as well) as in Battlefield 3, with very few additions. Then, again, they covered quite a lot of firearms there, so some were bound to re-appear. Hope the time and resources were put into making more maps and tools that are fun to play around with. There's also no designated launcher for the Chinese faction, so I assume Russians and Chinese will both share RPG-7V2. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 14:14, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

No MP7 but two UMP's and the SPAS 12 makes me a bit dissapoint, although they'll likely add more weapons. Also, didn't the Chinese engineer have his own launcher in the hi def faction screens. Also, the AK12 Saiga is the OBV 12, interesting.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:19, 21 August 2013 (EDT)
:: Youtube link if needed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLzYLTPN6Mw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 18:34, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

:::There's no way that's the final build, there's too much missing, like no Chinese launchers or G17 even though we saw them, no M1911 would just be silly, I could go on. I bet this is most of the weapons, say 2/3 or 3/4, but not all of them. Note that there is other stuff missing from the build too, like the F-22 (US is using the PAK-FA). The "SRR-61" is the M200 Intervention, as the that's in the build but not on the list, and the "SRR-61" says it has 7 rounds of .408. The "338-Recon" could be a lot of things. The "Compact 45" is likely an HK45C, BF doesn't use HK names after all, and they couldn't name it "M45C", as the M1911 variant in BF3 (and likely this one) is the M45. While the "Compact 45" is listed as having 15 round, that would be ridiculous, and is likely an oversight in the stats. The Galil ACEs are listed as 30 rounds, but do in fact have 35, as seen in the trailer, so some are wrong. Also, the HK45C takes 8 round magazines, which means they could have the M1911 along side it with no balance issues. I believe the rest of the guns are named properly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:11, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
::::The SVD-12 is likely an AK-12 DMR variant, rather than an actual SVD variant. If we're getting whole families of rifles like this (5 AK-12s, 4 Galils, the Q series) I hope we get the rest of the G36-series lineup in DLC. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:43, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::Not sure if [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QOPsp9pRnc8#t=196 this clip in this video] is from a longer one, but it shows that when you put a Heavy Barrel on a P90 it becomes a full auto PS90. HK45, not the C, as the "Compact 45" [http://i.imgur.com/PfN53FI.png confirmed]. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:07, 23 August 2013 (EDT)

== Some more weapon images ==

http://i.imgur.com/eqfdwoZ.jpg

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 03:03, 22 August 2013 (EDT)

== Article needs updating ==

People need to start looking for GamesCom multiplayer footage of the various new confirmed guns and put screencaps of them on this page. Come on, people, this article needs to be updated! [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 10:29, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:You do know that you can do it yourself, instead of asking someone ELSE to do it. Maybe you should have a look at the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#No_page_vandalism|rules]] again... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:52, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
::That's the thing: no, I can't. I don't know how to do. Also, how have I committed vandalism, exactly? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 13:00, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:::If you want something screencapped but don't know how to do it, the correct thing to do would be to ask for advice on how to do it, rather than badger other people to do it for you. I suggest you read the [[IMFDB Screencapping Guide]]. Assuming the video you are talking about is on youtube, you can even do it as simply as just pausing it, print screening and cropping in paint. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:19, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
::::The screencapping guide contains a link to Fast Stone Image Viewer, which is free and far superior to MS Paint. The guide also details how to take screen captures with Fast Stone Image Viewer. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:25, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::How do I put the images on the site once I've captured them? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 13:39, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
::::::Go to the panel on the left and look under "Toolbox" and click on "Upload file." Browse to the file you want to upload (or drag and drop onto that box,) then tag the image in the summary box below (for example, <nowiki>[[Category: Screenshot]]</nowiki> for screenshots,) and then click on upload. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:16, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::::How do I delete an uploaded file that's named wrong? Or just change the name of it? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 09:55, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
::You can either use the move tool or you can tag it for deletion with <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki> and reupload. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 10:49, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:::How do I do that? Where do I find the move tool and how do I tag it with <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki>? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 10:51, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
::::Actually, I just figured out how to do the latter. Still would like to know how to do the former, though! :) [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 11:28, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::If you click on an image, look at the tabs at the top of the page, and you'll see a tab for move. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 11:46, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:The article needs updating again. It's not going to stay like this forever, is it? Am I going to have to do this by myself again, or are someone else going to pitch in? Because I did pretty much all of the updating after GamesCom! [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 17:25, 7 November 2013 (EST)

== Another 93R ==

Not sure if this is a correct model but another incarnation of the 93R is seen here:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0H9lXzp6MmM&feature=relmfu

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 02:17, 1 September 2013 (EDT)

== No M16A3 for BF4 multiplayer ==

The M16A3 is removed from BF4 multiplayer. the M16 model seen on recent gameplay is actually mislabeled and is now corrected as the three round burst M16A4.

You can read about this here:
http://pixelenemy.com/m16a3-removed-from-battlefield-4-multiplayer-dice-confirms/

[[User:Dangerman1973|Dangerman1973]] ([[User talk:Dangerman1973|talk]]) 02:09, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

FUCK.YES (pardon the french)[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 09:16, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

::What the heck, was the M16A3 really so annoying? Me and my friends, we have never even heard of this "controversy", and we play on multiple paltforms... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:14, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

:::yeah, same here, I don't recall it having really low recoil... I couldn't kill anyone with the M16A3. I just used the a4.--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:09, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

From the looks of things in a few recent videos the M4A1 is out and the M4 is replacing it too, so it will be the dedicated burst/semi Carbine. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] ([[User talk:5t3v0|talk]]) 14:49, 18 September 2013 (EDT)

== Fire selectors? ==

Does anyone know if BF4 will feature correct fire selectors that visibly change on the weapon model depending on current fire mode? I was hoping to see this. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 17:55, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

== GP-30 Confirmed ==
And a brief glimpse of the Five-seveN in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_dacA-ZEWQ this video], second halfish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:58, 24 September 2013 (EDT)

== Cocking the RPG-7's hammer? ==

Ok, guys, I got the beta, and while using the RPG, I've noticed that after loading the rocket, you cock the hammer on the grip (a detail that I've not seen any game include so far). Just something I thought was interesting. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 01:05, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

:I thought that was the safety lever.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:37, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

::Nope, it was the hammer. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:20, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

== Bullpups less accurate than other assault rifles ==

I have noticed that the stats for the bullpups in-game have an accuracy of 45 while other assault rifles have 50. Which brings me to a question, what is the logic behind that? Because in reality, bullpups are supposed to be shorter in overall length while retaining standard barrels to retain the accuracy.

The SAR 21 and AUG A3 has a barrel length of 508mm, the FAMAS 488mm, and the QBZ 95 463mm.
However, the HK416 has a barrel length of 409mm, or 505mm at best, the SCAR H, 400mm barrel, the AEK 971 420mm and the AK12 415mm.

As a matter of fact, all the bullpup rifles has longer barrels than it's counterpart (with the exception of M16A4).
How in the world can DICE allow the bullpups to have lower ADS accuracy than the others? It would have been the total opposite in real life.

If any, they should make reloading bullpups longer due to the magazine behind the trigger.--[[User:ZuluSix|ZuluSix]] ([[User talk:ZuluSix|talk]]) 12:16, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
:I've heard (never having fired one myself) that bullpups tend to have crappy triggers, which might affect accuracy. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:21, 1 November 2013 (EDT)
::In BF3 all bullpups had better hipfire accuracy, so this is likely a balance to that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:27, 4 November 2013 (EST)
:::But why hipfire? Hipfiring is so damn inaccurate anyway so I don't consider that a form of balance. Having fired the SAR 21 and the M16, I don't find much difference in the trigger pull, but the SAR 21 definitely has a very good CG, it rests perfectly balanced on the master hand so I don't see how that is not a plus to the accuracy. [[User:ZuluSix|ZuluSix]] ([[User talk:ZuluSix|talk]]) 03:30, 10 November 2013 (EST)

By virtue of locating the trigger further from the ammunition (and thus the firing pin) than a conventional rifle (or even one that loads in the pistol grip), the trigger pull on bullpup-configuration firearms is less "user-friendly" than on conventional firearms (because the trigger has to move a longer mechanism to activate the firing pin on a bullpup rather than a conventional rifle). If we ever switch to electronically-fired weapons or man-portable directed-energy weapons, their layout (relative to where the trigger and the ammunition is located) will become moot with regards to trigger pull because they will no longer require mechanical firing pins. By the way, I've read user complaints about how many bullpup firearms don't have adjustable buttstocks (the magazine gets in the way), which makes them less comfortable to reload and less user-friendly when used with body armour, but that's not likely going to be changed anytime soon or be reflected in the game itself.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 05:07, 10 November 2013 (EST)
:You do still get bullpups with a perfectly fine trigger pull, it is only really particularly a problem with bullpups that are modified version of standard layout weapons as these tend to have a sub-optimal trigger linkage. On these these the linkage is quite often a piece of stiff wire with bends in it so there is a lot of potential for it to flex, on better design the linkage is a straight flat steel bar that has no flex so the trigger pull is similar to that of a normal rifle (possibly slightly heavier, but without the long sloppy travel of the typical bullpup conversions). If anything bullpups should be more accurate than their comparable contemporaries as they have a longer barrel which should be more accurate and give you more muzzle velocity. For example the SA80 series is very accurate, so much so that when it was introduced the marksman tests had to be revised as it was consistently out shooting the L1A1 SLR to the point where everyone was getting top marks (part of this was due to the SUSAT, but even without it is still a very accurate weapon). If they have a worse trigger pull, it really doesn't effect accuracy much in the situations where assault rifles are used anyway. There is the possibility that bullpups will have more muzzle climb in automatic though due to the centre of gravity being further back so there is less weight keeping the muzzle down. However this balances out with the fact that by necessity bullpups need to have a straight through design with the barrel in line with the shoulder, and personally I actually liked the weight being far back as I find it keeps it seated nicely in my shoulder and is more manoeuvrable, but that is more a personal preference thing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 07:37, 10 November 2013 (EST)
The barrel length of a bullpup depends on the specific model being discussed. Sure, the L85A2 has a 20.4-inch barrel, a little more than an M16. The FN F2000 has a 16-inch barrel, and the Micro-Tavor (the new standard-issue weapon for the IDF) has only a 13-inch barrel, the Israelis apparently satisfied with something possessing less barrel length than the M4 carbine. And accuracy is more than just a factor of barrel length; assuming the same cartridge loading, a firearm with a longer barrel should (up to the point before barrel friction starts overpowering the force of the expanding propellant gas) impart a flatter trajectory to a bullet than a shorter one does, but there are other factors, such as the kind of cartridge (why else do they sell "match-grade ammo"?) and the kind of sights. The fact that no bullpup I've seen comes with an adjustable buttstock could be a factor for "user-friendliness" (not to mention the shorter overall length means you often can't find the room for a foregrip that really fits you), but that's not something that you can really model in a game.

It's too bad that the BF series (aside from the [[Project Reality]] mod) doesn't emulate bayonets. That would be a definite advantage conventional rifles would have over bullpups, due to their greater overall length. Project Reality even lets you smack around opposing player characters with Tavor buttstrokes, too--something I would think must be easier with longer conventional rifles. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 15:13, 23 November 2013 (EST)

== China Rising & Second Assault ==

Figured you guys might like to know, but I recently found some additional information for weapons for the DLC packs China Rising in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox3g_8WF67s as well as info on Second Assault which are below:

China Rising:
* L85
* L96
* MTAR
* RPK
* MP7

Second Assault:
* AS VAL
* F2000

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 15:04, 14 November 2013 (EST)

:The M60E4 was seen in a trailer too, so it's likely in Second Assault. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 00:07, 17 November 2013 (EST)

As a sort of strange aside, the orange presumably "placeholder camo" on all the China Rising weapons as of now gives the impression that the RPK is an original RPK-74 rather than an M model. Why is it, exactly, that we would require the RPK-12 and RPK-74 if they would presumably fill the same function, unless this RPK is an original model firing 7.62x39mm cartridges? --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] ([[User talk:Dirty Harold|talk]]) 12:47, 19 November 2013 (EST)

There was an update for BF4 on PC, where all of the China Rising weapons are available. The RPK is the RPK-74, with the awesome wood furniture on it. So, apparently they wanted to make the RPK-12 and RPK-74 extremely similar. But I do like the new RPK, and all of the guns are fun to use. I hope they add some more guns in Second Assault, like an actual AK47 with wood furniture, and other fun things. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 19:05, 21 November 2013 (EST)

== All Battlefield 4 Weapons video ==

A guy on YouTube named "MAR89TUM" does videos showcasing all weapons in a video game, and he just completed his Battlefield 4 video a few hours ago. I thought I'd share it with you guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A86pF20anB8

[[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 12:30, 20 November 2013 (EDT)

:Saved for later because it's really long, but thanks for sharing :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:27, 20 November 2013 (EST)

::MAR89TUM made two more videos, one for China Rising and another for Second Assault.
::China Rising: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyygTCsJ9T8
::Second Assault: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KCT7bslmZI
::[[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 8:43, 19 February 2014 (EST)

== FN F2000 ==

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4qVx3Pvfu4

I'm assuming the F2000 Tactical is also going to be in there.

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 13:44, 20 November 2013 (EST)

:Gameplay with the scope, yay! I bet the scope is the F2000's iron sights, and if you attach any other optic it becomes the Tactical. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:25, 20 November 2013 (EST)

::I don't have Battlefield 4 yet, but from research I've done I've found that it is a F2000 Tactical, but there is a optic attachment unique to the weapon called "F2000 (x1.6)" and attaching it to the F2000 Tactical transforms it into the original F2000. Attaching any other optic or leaving it as iron sights keeps it as the Tactical. [[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 1:23, 6 December 2013 (EST)

== JS2 ==
I've figured out what's up with the JS2. Okay, first, part of the problem is that IMFDB's entry for the variant is wrong, it's "JS 9mm" (or "Jian She JS 9mm" if you want to include the company name), that's the name; "Type-05" is not a thing, that doesn't exist. Second, the description is also wrong, the JS isn't just a QCW-05 in 9mm. It's based on it, but it's smaller, along with having a flattop and built-in foregrip. It's part of the same family, but not the same gun. So the JS is its own gun, smaller and with a flattop and foregrip. With that out of the way we can talk about what the JS2 is. The JS2 is a fictional future variant of the JS (thus the name) chambered in 5.8mm that fires from a closed bolt, with the charging handle on the left side, and with the suppressor removed. Also, I just happened across a bunch of pictures and a video of Chinese police with JSs without suppressors, so I'm not sure lack of a suppressor is that notable. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 04:37, 21 November 2013 (EST)

== Burst Fire - Why do so many games get it so WRONG? ==

As I understand it, burst firing weapons (like the M16A2 or MP5A4 for instance) were first introduced to *save* ammo, rather than waste it. I just can't figure out why game designers would decide that making the gun fire a *minimum* of three rounds per trigger pull would be a better idea than allowing any number up to three?
I know that HK weapons with burst fire don't act like this in real life, or M16A2/A4s/M4s - Is there such a thing as a real world firearm that does not allow its wielder to fire less than three shots when set to burst fire? [[User:Stickie|Stickie]] ([[User talk:Stickie|talk]]) 07:02, 1 December 2013 (EST)

Far Cry 2 and 3 got it right with the 'AR16' and FAMAS respectively, and I know 007 Nightfire on the Gamecube had plenty of burst weapons capable that could be single shot if you tapped the trigger gently. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:34, 1 December 2013 (EST)

== Missing Second Assault weapons ==

Hello, everyone. As I'm sure most of you know, the Second Assault DLC has been out for a while now. There were 5 weapons that got added in this DLC
*DAO-12 (apologies, I've kinda forgotten what shotgun it's based on)
*Gol Magnum
*M60E3
*F2000
*AS VAL
If anyone can help me get some images for these weapons, I would really appreciate it --[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:47, 4 December 2013 (EST)

I think the main reason the Second Assault weapons haven't been added, this is just a thought, but it hasn't been released on PC yet. The biggest BF4 audience is on PC, and we got screwed. China Rising weapons have been available on PC for about 3 weeks, so those should be here soon. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 17:45, 4 December 2013 (EST)

:ah, alright then. I'll be patient...--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 11:08, 5 December 2013 (EST)

::I assume all our screenshots come from PC, mostly because of how much easier it is to do that, but also for the best resolution. If I played on PC I'd do lots of screencapping, but I can't :( [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:58, 5 December 2013 (EST)

== Reloads ==

I find it strange that some of the guns that have ambidextrous charging handles use the right side only. I first noticed this with the AK-12, where the reload animation uses the left hand to go under the gun and chamber a round from the right side. It is odd for the devs to put in the ambi charging handles, and then act as if they're not there. But they could use an animation from a previous game, who knows. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 22:27, 7 December 2013 (EST)

== Assault Rifle Stats ==

As some people have pointed out, the stats for the assault rifles seem as though they were not thought out. The bullpups have less accuracy, but theoretically have the same barrel length as a rifle chambered for the same round. For example, the SAR-21 has an accuracy rating of 45, while the HK416 has a rating of 50. And the L85A2 has an accuray rating of 35, which is less than most of the carbines. The M16A4 has less stability than most other rifles, most likely due to the 20 inch barrel, but it gains nothing in accuracy. Speaking of stability, the AK-12 is tied with the QBZ-95-1 for second best stability (rating of 70), only being beaten by the SAR-21. Why does the AK-12 have more stability that the HK416(I mainly ask because I love that rifle)? The AK-12 has a 16 inch barrel, while the HK416 utilizes the 14.5 inch barrel in this game, so I don't understand that. The ACE 23 is a super-gun in the game. It has a great rate of fire, awesome accuracy, and almost no recoil. I hate the ACE 23. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 22:41, 7 December 2013 (EST)
:Most video game designers, like most Hollywood writers don't actually know anything about firearms.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 00:37, 8 December 2013 (EST)
::A few things. Those stat bars, like in almost every game, are half wrong, don't trust them. The reduced accuracy of bullpups is because it's a trade off for their better hipfire accuracy, it highlights their good performance in CQB due to their shorter length. In terms of stability, recoil is directly proportional and opposite to rate of fire, the visual appearance of the gun doesn't factor in. Since gameplay balance has to exist, it's far better to play with less obvious traits like accuracy, hipfire, recoil, muzzle velocity, reload time, and such rather than the more important things like mag capacity, rate of fire, and damage, the three most important things, as those three are what ties the gun to actually representing its real counterpart. The ACE 23 isn't godly, but it is the single most all-round gun in the game, with the natural advantages and disadvantages that come with being the most jack-of-all-trades. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:29, 8 December 2013 (EST)

==CZ-75==

The CZ in the game is not a PHANTOM, but the steel framed SP-01 Tactical. I'm not going to change it yet as we do not have a picture of the SP-01 Tac yet, and the two models are remarkably similar in looks. But I might change the entry and description here shortly. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 14:51, 9 December 2013 (EST)

Actually its not a Tactical. Its a CZ SP-01 Shadow. Tactical denotes it is a decocker model. The in game render clearly shows the extended shadow safety. [[User:Furious Oyster|Furious Oyster]] ([[User talk:Furious Oyster|talk]]) 19:57, 9 December 2013 (EST)FuriousOyster
:Beat me by literally a couple seconds. The Shadow is seen [http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/featured_handguns_hg_cz_usa_cz_75_sp01_shadow_082710/ here] and [http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu76.htm here].--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 20:01, 9 December 2013 (EST)

Well Gentlemen, I stand corrected. That's another reason I didn't change the entry; I know almost nothing about CZ handguns. I simply looked at CZ's current lineup, and found the Tac looks nearly identical to the one in game. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 15:43, 10 December 2013 (EST)
:I think CZ discontinued it because it's no longer on their website, but I'm also not a CZ guy.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 22:29, 10 December 2013 (EST)
::Quote from the first link up there: "The Shadow is available only through CZ Custom, which is the factory custom shop for CZ products in the States." That's likely why it's not on the website. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:00, 11 December 2013 (EST)

Yep, here they are: http://czcustom.com/CZ75_SP01_SHADOW_CustomShop.aspx Though I can't find a version chambered in .40, it's a custom pistol to begin with. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 14:40, 11 December 2013 (EST)

== Missing stuff ==

Hello again. I've noticed a couple things missing from the page. Namely, the RGO grenade, the Type 85 HMG, and the chain gun on the ZBD-09

That's all I needed to say.--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 14:04, 12 December 2013 (EST)

== Rifle Scopes ==
The 8x "Rifle Scope" is very distinctive an has a distinctive mount, but I don't know what it is. It's marked with "Visionzone" and "1.5-5x". The 20x "Hunter", which is the same scope as BF3's 6x/8x "Rifle Scope", is marked only with "Delta Corp", and I'm not sure what it is either. The 40x "Ballistic" is actually a Schmidt & Bender/Premier Reticles M8541, which is 3-12x50. "Schmidt & Bender" (misspelled as "Schmitd"), "Premier Reticles", "M8541", and "3-12x50" can all be seen on it in-game. It's the standard scope for the USMC's M40s. Anyone else know anything about these? Also, while not at all BF4 related, does anyone know what [http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/tokyo-marui-3-9x40-pro-scope-zoom.html#.UriQ6bTN2sE this scope] made by Tokyo Marui is based on? It would be helpful for a different article (and for me) :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:31, 23 December 2013 (EST)

== UTS-15 ==

Isn't it considered strange how the UTS-15 is reloaded (one shell in the left tube, one in the right, one left, one right, etc.) rather than loading 7 shells in one tube first then 7 in the other? Or was this done on purpose considering the real weapon's functionality? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 12:54, 30 December 2013 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure they could have done it either way, but alternating looks more interesting ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:11, 30 December 2013 (EST)

::But alternating makes the reload slower. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:06, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:::It could be something to do with how the reload animations work, as in if it is just a cycle that can be aborted at any point this may be simpler than having to do a specific number of shells in one tube and then the same in the other. This does however lead to the bizarre situation where the guy is opening and closing the loading port covers for every shell, as opposed to just once per tube. Regardless, it is actually really difficult to reload a UTS-15 with a partial magazine (I would imagine near impossible with gloves like the player model is wearing), so any kind of speedy reload is inaccurate. The thing with the UTS-15 tubes is that they only really hold six, with the seventh being placed behind the loading door, which when closed allows the follower/shells to advance into the loading port in effect making the tube longer that it is. This means that when you open the door to top up a partial tube, you would be presented with the front half of the rear round and the back half of the second. You would first need to push the second round forward until it was latched in the tube, and then wiggle the rear round to get it out of the rear of the loading port to the point where you could then put it into the tube, and then you can load as normal. As you would need to do this for both tubes, you are looking at a total of somewhere between 5 and 10 seconds of fiddling time without even loading any new rounds. To me it would seem like the easier way would be to just open the top cover and load both tubes direct without fannying about with the loading door covers or the bizarre follower arrangement, but as I haven't handled one of these myself and can find no mention online of people doing it this way, perhaps there is a reason this wouldn't work (aside from wearing out the detent on the top cover making it pop open even more regularly than it already does). To me this gun falls into the same category of the SPAS-12, in that it looks great in games and films/TV, but it is actually a total POS in real life. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:57, 30 December 2013 (EST)

== Major Updates to LMG Section ==

Finished updating LMG section and will bring other sections to this standard in the near future. Also plan on updating customization screenshots (will take longer for this). Major changes in LMG section:

*Added intro section with in-game characteristics of LMGs
*Mk 46 changed to M249 with explanation
*RPK-74M changed to RPK with explanation
*Brief background info on all weapons
*Noted minor errors for some weapons (like +1 on the open bolt Ultimax)
*Removed all comments related to pre-release, such as "the dogtag appears in Battlelog"

The M249 has it's carry handle in gameplay, though it seems to have been missing the pre-release screen shots.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:41, 6 January 2014 (EST)
*Fixed, thanks. I think it's just the third person model that is missing the handle.

== Benelli M3 ==

The promo image for Player appreciation month seems to have a tactical M3.
Link http://gyazo.com/b649794667495511898e614c2b1f3b75.png
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:22, 6 February 2014 (EST)

:Yep, but that's an older promo image they just apparently wanted to use. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 04:18, 7 February 2014 (EST)

::It's an airsoft M3 (it's pretty much the most common airsoft shotgun), like the other "real" guns are, and it's been used in quite a few different places, including in-game somewhere in the Premium menu. I think it's worth noting, as we noted Recker's G17 on the cover. Also, the G18 in-game is actually a 17 with the selector pasted on to it, you can tell because sometimes you can see through between the slide and switch, and because the cocking serrations don't stop around the switch. Also, as a 17, it's the campaign pistol prop, being used every time there's a pistol except Dunn's REX in the first mission and M9s used by the US scouts that you encounter later. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:33, 7 February 2014 (EST)

== Second Assault Release Date & Naval Strike Weapons ==

Given that Second Assault will finally be coming February 18th the addition of the Second Assault Weapons will be added these include:

* F2000
* AS VAL
* M60-E4
* GOL Magnum
* DAO-12 (Armsel Striker)
* Mk.19 GMG (mounted on the returning DPV vehicle in replacement of the M2 .50 CAL)

Additionally EA and DICE have mentioned Naval Strike being released in late March. It also states an additional 5 new weapons, 2 new gadgets, an "amphibious attack hovercraft" and 4 new maps Lost Islands, Nansha Strike, Wave Breaker and Operator Mortar.
Two of the gadgets stated for Naval Strike include a new grenade launcher attachment for the Assault called the 3GL (which leads many theories on it being the Metal Storm 3GL semi-auto grenade launcher) and a anti-helicopter projectile type mine used by the Engineer Kit.

In a side note I'm also excited for the return for "Carrier Assault" which is DICE's re-imagined version of Battlefield 2142 Titan Mode. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 16:35, 13 February 2014 (EST)

== Potential Scar-H goof? ==
I don't have the image to show it and I don't know much about the AAC 51T MITER, but I don't think a comp can be attached to the MITER. I noticed that the other day when I was customizing my Scar-H in the game. Can anyone can anyone confirm?
[[User:DarksamuraiX1999|DarksamuraiX1999]] ([[User talk:DarksamuraiX1999|talk]]) 2040, 17 February 2014 (PST)

== Naval Strike ==
[http://blogscdn.battlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Battlefield-4-Naval-Strike-Hovercraft_WM1.png ARX-160 confirmed] as Naval Strike's AR. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 20:09, 28 February 2014 (EST)

Dat posture. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:52, 1 March 2014 (EST)

:Yeah, why is the character gripping the magazine and the foregrip instead of the rear pistol grip and the foregrip? Weird. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 01:35, 1 March 2014 (EST)

Added it in. [[User:Mance1462|Mance1462]] ([[User talk:Mance1462|talk]]) 01:00, 1 March 2014 (EST)

The entirety of the NS content was added yesterday, guns, assignments, camos, etc. The ARX-160 appears as the "AR160", the PDW is the SR-2M as the "SR-2" (likely an oversight rather than intentionally different), the MG is the Shrike AAR as the "AWS", I nor any of the community on the forums could nail down the sniper rifle, which is a semi auto .338 called the "SR338" (not helpful), and finally the Rhino revolver appears as the "SW40" as the fifth weapon. Also, in the patch along with loads of balance changes and fixes, the ones relevant to this page are that the L85's rate of fire was reduced from 800 to 750 and burst mode was removed, and the QSZ-92 now correctly holds 20+1. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5-8Mnq_nNw NS stuff video.] [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:00, 5 March 2014 (EST)

the SR338 appears to be this http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/wm_2093308-tfb.jpg--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] ([[User talk:Anarchy66660|talk]]) 19:07, 5 March 2014 (EST)

Talk:Grand Theft Auto V

2014-03-05T03:03:23Z

Anarchy66660: /* New upcoming DLC */

== new page and type 56-2 ==

Hi!
I made this kinda quick. Didn't have a lot of time to check errors.
I'm relatively new to the editing in this site. So if any veteran
around with more knowledge could help improve the article would be indeed
great.
When it comes to the weapon, I believe it's a Norinco Type 56-2 since the stock
looks like the one in a Type 56-2. Otherwise correct if I'm wrong.
Also one of the guys seems to have a laser sight. Don't know which sort though
[[User:Santos|Santos]] 17:08, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

The rifles seem to have some sort of rail system on them... which I think is a shame--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 10:55, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Most likely is the handguard with picatinny rails. The guy knocking on the van leading those other two men, seems to have a laser sight attached to it. This is a handguard is from FAB-Defense. http://www.fab-defense.com/images/big-details/ak-47-1.jpg

One of the screenshots mentions "excellent" trigger discipline, to me it looks like his finger is actually on the trigger as there is a small curve in the shape of the finger, I wouldn't refer to that as excellent trigger discipline. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:To me it looks like the guy is holding his finger just slightly above the trigger area, not excellent but still better than most games have, to be honest the only game i can remember that had great trigger discipline was MGS4 where Snake kept his finger completely off the triggers of all weapons unless he was aiming them, but i think that since they're both video games, bad trigger discipline can be excused since i doubt developers want to spend who knows how many hours giving every character separate finger animations for trigger discipline, and also there is the fact that the character can have their fingers wrapped around the triggers, but the players have theirs completely off the fire button, so essentially, it's our own 'trigger' discipline that video game characters have (least that's how i see it) we should save the bad trigger discipline arguments for movies.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 16:26, 8 March 2012 (CST)
::Add ''[[ArmA 2]]'' to the list of games with excellent trigger discipline. [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 03:55, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

== M4? ==

Help to identify; looks like a M4 rifle with longer (?) and suppressed barrel. [[User:Pawelm|Pawelm]] ([[User talk:Pawelm|talk]]) 13:55, 10 November 2012 (EST)
[[Image:GTA5_AR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

I would say that it has a shorter barrel than an M4A1. I would say it's a suppressed [[Mk. 18 Mod 0]]. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 14:21, 10 November 2012 (EST)

Suppressor resembles an AAC model which covers more of the barrel than the KAC suppressors we commonly see, so it's possible it could still be an M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:10, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:If it was an M4 length barrel, there would be no suppressor left to actually trap the gas to suppress the weapon. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:24, 10 November 2012 (EST)

looks like it has the older CAR-15 style stock [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:38, 11 November 2012 (EST)
:What people refer to as CAR-15s (XM177, XM177E1, XM177E2 etc) were fitted with a stock that was made of aluminium with a black polymer coating as seen [[Colt_AR-15_Identification_Guide#2nd_Generation_Collapsible|here]]. Later Colt carbines up to and including the M4 had a synthetic fiberlite stock as seen [[Colt_AR-15_Identification_Guide#3rd_Generation_Collapsible|here]]. The easiest way to tell them apart are the vertical reinforcing ribs that are present on the side of the fiberlite stock, which are present in the game gun. As this stock can be found on Mk. 18s, Model 933s and M4s (all of which this gun could be depending on how the suppressor fits) that doesn't really help. However as the gun has the slim handguard rather than the thicker double heat shield M4 handguard, my best guess would be a Mk. 18. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:03, 11 November 2012 (EST)
::What I think he meant was this is the 3rd Gen stock, the four-position plastic, not the newer six-position.--[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] ([[User talk:Sangheili1155|talk]]) 02:43, 12 November 2012 (EST)
I've seen scans that show one of the other characters holding that weapon without a suppressor on it. I'd definitely go with Mk.18 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 01:12, 11 November 2012 (EST)

I'm sure that this is why this image is in this section, but I cant believe these animated pictures as validation for the weapons in the game. GTA IV had MANY weapons in the loading screens that for what ever reason never made it to the final product.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 20:05, 11 November 2012 (EST)

:Check the [[Grand Theft Auto IV]] page and you'll notice we include loading screen weapons on it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:16, 12 November 2012 (EST)

::If a weapon is in the game and can be identified, then it should be identified. This includes artwork, loading screens, stock footage, in-game posters, whatever; if it's a clear and identifiable shot it's included. Weapons only seen in previews can also be included as long as the image is from a legitimate source and not leaked. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:52, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Cover for the latest Game Informer magazine. You can see the suppressor is missing but the muzzle and the barrel is missing [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:03, 28 November 2012 (EST)
[[Image:GTA5_AR2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Weapon Selection hope==

So I don't know about most of you, but one of the worst aspects to these games is the frank lack of weapons for which you to use. I am not saying that the game doesn't need 100 different firearms, but there is no need to use the low level weapons once the higher tier weapons are unlocked (compare the Glock and Desert Eagle in GTA IV, how often do you use the Glock after unlocking). If nothing else I hope that this game has at least 3-4 variations in firearm. There are tons of vehicles to choose from, but you dont spend most of your time offing people with cars. Having to use the same repetitive weapon again and again bores me. What are your thoughts?--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 20:09, 11 November 2012 (EST)

Four or five options of each type sound good to me. I'm hoping we get a silenced pistol again this time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:21, 12 November 2012 (EST)

:@Spartan198, exactly! The way I have seen it (for example), in the pistol category there should be a standard (Glock), Hi standard (1911), Burst (Beretta 93R), Special (Silenced [if no ability to customize]), and Magnum (Desert Eagle/Equivilant). Now this is a very basic look, but I think you can catch my drift. Same thing for shotguns where there should be a Double Barrell (For range and/or sawed off), Pump (Mossberg), Semi Auto (Benelli M4), and Automatic (USAS-12/AA-12). You can make any adjustments for which weapons are in which category does not matter. But the differences. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 12:45, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Seeing the silenced 56-2s in the reveal; its likely.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 01:25, 12 November 2012 (EST)

I'm really hoping to see an [[Ithaca 37]] in this like in San Andreas, being that this is taking place in the same fictional Los Angeles. --[[User:QueenSasha24|QueenSasha24]] ([[User talk:QueenSasha24|talk]]) 04:01, 12 November 2012 (EST)

I'm really hoping for a SIG P226 myself this time around, but with the 92FS, that's looking unlikely. I like Valiant's system of classification, though. Using that system, I'd like to see assault rifles classified like this: an AKMS without a stock (low accuracy, short range), the Type 56 (medium accuracy, short range), the AR-15 variant (high accuracy, medium range), TAR-21 (high accuracy, long range). A grenade launcher attachment (if the weapons are customizable) would be nice, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:38, 19 April 2013 (EDT)

==Trailer 2==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzue74y7A84

The only new weapon I see looks to be an M4 type at 1:15. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:05, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Aaaargh! Why won't videos stream for me? It's been like this for the past 3 days! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 02:34, 15 November 2012 (EST)

== Trailer #2 Screenshots ==

[[File:Gta5-1.JPG|200px|thumb|none|AR15 platform rifle]]
[[File:Gta5-2.JPG|200px|thumb|none|The handguard is longer than M4-style one]]
[[File:Gta5-3.JPG|200px|thumb|none|AR15 style rifle, looks a bit like a HK416 to me, also the guy on the right has the same, or very similar gun]]

The rifle on the 3rd screencap looks like a HK416 variant (handguard with these thin vents). Also the rifle in 1st and 2nd screenshot seems to be different than the one in the 3rd. It has a black magazine, in games a gun rarely can have a mag swapped out. :D --[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 10:06, 15 November 2012 (EST)

PS sorry for the black bars guys :\ --[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 10:08, 15 November 2012 (EST)

:I'm guessing it is the same rifle in all 3 caps. Also, in the first screencap you can see the distinctive forward assist/brass deflector that is used on VLTOR VIS and MUR upper receivers ([[Media:NovesDiplomat.jpg|here]] is a picture of a Noveske Diplomat with a VIS upper showing the forward assist). Although these uppers are used on Noveske rifles, I don't think this is one as the handguard is wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:22, 15 November 2012 (EST)

It looks like more an AAC Honey Badger (look at the stock and the bolt) than an HK416 or AR-15-like rifle for the 3rd picture. --[[User:bonshomme|bonshomme]] ([[User talk:bonshomme|talk]])
:Several reasons why I don't think it is a Honey Badger: firstly, the stock on the Honey Badger extend on rails on the side of the receiver like an MP5, as opposed to this where it extends along the buffer tube in typical Colt Carbine fashion; secondly it appears that it has a VLTOR VIS/MUR upper receiver based on the design of the combined forward assist and brass deflector which the Honey Badger doesn't; lastly, even if you disagree that it is a VLTOR upper it definitely has a forward assist, which the Honey Badger does not just having a normal brass deflector. In what way do you think the bolt makes it a Honey Badger they are pretty much the same on a typical AR-15 and a Honey Badger aren't they? (with the exception of the FA serrations, but from these screenshots you cannot tell whether they are there or not.) --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:30, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

== Very usefull thing i found ==

Hey guys i think this thread has everything about Weapons for GTA V, GTA Fans are really great at spotting things http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=532181&st=0
--[[User:Faizanali|Faizanali]] ([[User talk:Faizanali|talk]]) 03:38, 20 November 2012 (EST)
: As a member of GTA Forums, I can reliably say that anything you see there should be taken with the biggest dose of salt in history. Like, something from Big Bone Lick State Park. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 04:06, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== 1911 and Glock ==
A new artwork was revealed, and it has a 1911 and a glock variant. We should put on the main page?--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] ([[User talk:Flavio|talk]]) 15:16, 4 January 2013 (EST)
[[Image:GTA5_PISTOLS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== New trailers ==

There's new guns found in the trailer of GTA V. [[User:bonshomme|bonshomme]] ([[User talk:bonshomme|talk]]) 18:06, 30 April 2013 (EST)
[[Image:ar-15 variant.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This is an AR-15 variant, the same as seen in the trailer 2.]]
[[Image:ar-15 variant 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closer view of the variant.]]
[[Image:assault rifle gta v trailer.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A new assault rifle, I can't identify it.]]
[[Image:pistol gta v trailer.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pistol. I can't identify it.]]
[[Image:pistol gta v trailer 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pistol. It seems this is a Beretta 92FS.]]
[[Image:type 56 gangster.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Type 56-2 in the hands of a gangster.]]
[[Image:type 56 trevor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Trevor shoots his type 56-2.]]
[[Image:mossberg 590 cruiser gta v new stock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A new stock on Franklin's Mossberg 590 Cruiser.]]

I got some better images of the weapons that I'll be adding to the article. Here's a better shot of the unknown rifle; it looks kinda like a SCAR-H, but there's bits that aren't right.

Looks more like a weird FAL--[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 15:42, 30 April 2013 (EDT)

[[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 12:41, 30 April 2013 (EDT)
[[Image:Gtavgun1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Also, here's a shot of the pistol used by Michael in the rappelling scene. I can't identify it, but it almost looks to have an orange tip like an airsoft gun and no hammer. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 12:58, 30 April 2013 (EDT)
[[Image:Gtavgun4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[http://gyazo.com/ca7fae1d3d648ca8a2623bb5adb2bbbf.png?1367374112]] Not sure if it's a Hi-Power or 1911, on Michael's TV. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:11, 30 April 2013 (EDT)

Yeah, I'm also thinking some kind of short-barreled FAL for the new AR, judging by the magazine and shape of the mag well. It and the Tavor are certainly new and different choices considering GTA's past being dominated by the combo of an AK and M16 variants, which is a good thing. That's four assault rifles altogether now so far (five if the CQBR on concept art shown above is included in the game), so let's hope the other weapon categories have as diverse a selection. And considering how big the weapon selection in [[Red Dead Redemption|RDR]] was, I'm feeling pretty confident about it. Maybe my wish for a P226 could still come to pass after all? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:10, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

Here's a higher resolution cropped image of the mystery rifle.

[[File:GTA5 Mystery Gun.jpg]]

It has the heat shield, gas block, and front sight of an M249, the magazine looks more like a belt bag, and the stock looks derived from the fixed stock of the Masada/ACR. The optic is an out-of-scale Elcan SpecterDR and it has a Magpul AFG2 foregrip. The receiver area lacks details, but I'm going to hazard a guess that it's some kind of M249-based machine gun. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:15, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

Now that you said that I start to see it, but my first bet was FAL, in the end it could just be a butchered MG, the stock doesn't somehow look m249ish to me and the heat shield seems tiny.--[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 11:13, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

:After re-watching the trailer, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a [http://media.gtanet.com/gallery/gta-5-screenshots/RSG_GTAV_Screenshot_202.jpg light machine gun]. The ammo pouch gets a bit more obvious in motion and it's certainly an ammo pouch, not a 20 round 7.62 magazine. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 04:05, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

::I bet it turns out to be something ''really'' stoopid like an LSAT with a modified handguard. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:34, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

:::That horrified me for a moment, but I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing that LSAT is tucked a bit further away then the pool of common firearms that appear in GTA. It will be some monstrosity of the natural order regardless. -[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 14:57, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

Seems to be a new pistol, but I can't ID it.[http://www.thegtaplace.com/images/gtav/screenshots/RSG_GTAV_Screenshot_204.jpg]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:52, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

Could be a beretta. Weird pouch like a 50 rounder or something, but yeah now its definitely an butchered mg. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 06:35, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

:Underside of the trigger guard is straight, all Beretta models are rounded downward. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:25, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

DRD Tactical Paratus? [[User:Thomas|Thomas]] ([[User talk:Thomas|talk]]) 10:33, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

You mean the one to the left (its more likely an M4 would make sense for a game not centered around gun pron to have a generic well known firearm rather than some obscure one) if you mean the MG probably even more unlikely to me for now its seems like a franke-gun or at least a horribly scaled one. On a side note look at the one in the case the sight seems to be open http://media.edge-online.com/wp-content/uploads/edgeonline/2013/05/GTA-V-Heists.jpg and definetely a glock held by the guy in the picture little way above http://assets.vr-zone.net/19885/GTA_V_MFT.png -[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 17:00, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

:Spartan, gun models in video games can differ from their real life counterparts. It looks like a Beretta to me. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 18:47, 3 May 2013 (EDT)
::Which gun are you talking about, the one pictured immediately above named "File:GTA5 Mystery Gun.jpg"? If so you need to look at [http://media.gtanet.com/gallery/gta-5-screenshots/RSG_GTAV_Screenshot_202.jpg this] image again, as it clearly shows that what looks like a mag from the side is actually a belt bag. Also you have the fact that the front sight and gas block are a match for a Minimi, and what can be seen of the receier in this grainy image is also pretty close. The only obvious differences are the furniture with the stock and handguard being different, and that the scaling is off. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:13, 3 May 2013 (EDT)
:::Commando, I was actually talking about this pistol: [http://www.thegtaplace.com/images/gtav/screenshots/RSG_GTAV_Screenshot_204.jpg]] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 20:28, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

Thats what I already said, since the game obviously has one in it, it's probably a beretta. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 05:59, 4 May 2013 (EDT)
:I know, I was agreeing with you because Spartan said that it couldn't be a Beretta with the squared trigger guard. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 09:57, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

Sorry came of a bit rude , I meant to accentuate the fact that beretta is probably what everyone will think it is in the first place since it is confirmed to be in the game and beretta's have that distinct look of the slide,besides there's no reason to believe its some other gun since GTA's have tried to bring multiple weapons (AK's,AR's), instead of doing the COD thing and putting in several AR based ones, since they usually have a limited pool (like 3 in a category I believe) --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 13:09, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

*I was almost going to say it looked like a [[SIG SG 552|SIG552]], but the straight-edge magazine (rather than curved) says otherwise. [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 02:32, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/GrandTheftAutoV/1280%20(1).jpg Looks like a 1911 or Hi-Power in Michael's hand. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:42, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

I can almost guaranty that the handgun above is another Beretta. If you look closely you can see the exposed barrel from the cutaway slide and you can barely make out the step in at the end of the barrel which a characteristic shared among all 92-series handguns.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|One shot is all it takes.]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 16:02, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

== New pictures ==

New pictures of guns in GTA V. [[User:bonshomme|bonshomme]] ([[User talk:bonshomme|talk]]

[[Image:ar-15 variant gta v 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A very close view of the AR-15 variant.]]
[[Image:GTAV_RPG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A RPG-7 based of the Airtronic RPG-7.]]
[[Image:gta v m134 without green camo.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The handheld GE M134 without it's green finition.]]
[[Image:strange thing.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Look at the strange object the red guy is holding....]]
[[Image:gta v lmg (maybe M249).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another view of the AR-15 variant, this time with a new LMG.]]
[[Image:franklin's beretta 92fs.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Franklin's Beretta.]]
does anyone notice that Franklins Beretta has a Glock trigger guard? --[[User:Policerlhpd|Policerlhpd]] ([[User talk:Policerlhpd|talk]]) 03:57, 8 June 2013 (EDT)
[[Image:mossberg 590 cruiser gta v night.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Franklin at night with his Mossberg 590 Cruiser. I guess this is his favorite weapon.]]
[[Image:gta v ar-15 variant.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Again, the AR-15 variant. Last time I put it here.]]
[[Image:gta v mossberg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Again, the Mossberg.]]
:[[Image:strange thing.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Look at the strange object the red guy is holding....]]
:That's a camera. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:40, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

Yup camera 99% (since there is the same one in the SUV), seems that this game will sport gun customization at least color, the green Tavor,the green mini, and now the green shotty. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 09:26, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

I see a lot of influence from [[Heat]]. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 03:20, 8 May 2013 (EDT)

Yeah probably, but that is the trend in general with GTA's they put in references to movies and pop culture all the time. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 05:04, 8 May 2013 (EDT)

O yea, I know. This isn't my first GTA game by far. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 06:53, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

It's even right in the game, this time. According to an in-depth preview I watched on YouTube, Michael takes his ideas for heists directly from the game universe's versions of such movies. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:30, 8 May 2013 (EDT)

So is rockstar going to release the preview cause, all I have found right now is people talking for an hour about it .--[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 04:50, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

:They haven't released any public gameplay demos, no. At least none that I've seen yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:20, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

:As soon as they do, the media's going to be all over it. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 17:22, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

Here's a clearer picture of the pistol Franklin is holding in a previous screenshot.

[[File:Gtav pistol franklin.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Looks like some kind of cross between a Beretta and a Desert Eagle. It might be the "pistol .50" being offered as preorder DLC. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 11:25, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Seems like a different gun from the one in the above, I mean this probably is just a horrible DE, maybe work in progress, although GTA was never on top in weapons department. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 06:33, 14 June 2013 (EDT

http://www.gtav.net/screenshots/ - collection of official screenshots, might contain some weapons not already talked about. [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])

== Gameplay Video ==

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/07/09/first-grand-theft-auto-v-gameplay-video/

Go ahead and spot 'em. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 11:58, 9 July 2013 (EDT)

Dammit, Rockstar, take my money already! At 3:15, I can see an AW-type sniper rifle, a multi-shot grenade launcher (it looks similar to the hybrid grenade launcher in [[Resident Evil (2002 VG)|Resident Evil Remake]]), and a roll of dynamite in the weapon wheel. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:12, 9 July 2013 (EDT)

http://gyazo.com/946b75dda4df617e58df36a566d7812a.png Got a screencap of Franklin with a tan M82A1M.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:01, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

== Article on GTA V Gunplay ==
Found this article about the evolution of GTA V's gunplay on GTA Place. [http://www.gameinformer.com/games/grand_theft_auto_v/b/xbox360/archive/2013/07/09/grand-theft-auto-v-gun-combat.aspx] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 22:39, 9 July 2013 (EDT)

== New picture. ==

[[File:GTA5UNKNOWNPIST2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

[[User:Bonshomme|Bonshomme]] 14:00, 10 July 2013 (CDT)

Is that seriously a rail on the side of the slide? [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 05:27, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

::Okay, I'm definitely not getting this game! Rockstar has always failed with the guns department (except in Max Payne 3), and that thing looks absolutely hideous. I'm done with the GTA series... Maybe when someone makes a skin mod for the guns, I'll get a copy... -.- --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 08:50, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::: Good. That leaves a copy for me. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 15:01, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::::As if there will not be enough copies to go around, eh? --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 15:56, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:::While you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I always consider gun accuracy a +1 for me, incorrect weapon details isn't really much of a reason to not buy a game IMO (hell, I still got my copy of BO1). Again you are entitled to your opinion.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 11:06, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:::: While I'm glad you won't be playing the game so as to avoid running into some joyless bother online, it seems to me more likely that the gun is a supposed to be some manner of TDI Kard, than whatever 1911/glock designed solely to offend your sensibilities you think it is. --[[User:Toadvine|Toadvine]] ([[User talk:Toadvine|talk]]) 17:18, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::You have been playing too much Black Ops 2 if you think there is anything about that remotely resembling a Kard. It obviously has a conventional pistol layout with a slide, and the frame and general outline suggests a 1911. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:25, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::::Well, you know what they say: opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one. I'm just sayin' you can't deny the fact that that... ''THING'' looks like a fugly frankengun, that should never see the light of day. I'm still hopin Rockstar has upped their gunplay from previous GTA titles, and made the gunplay (and the guns themselves) in this one a bit more realistic. You know, since they seem to be makin' this game another ground-breakin' masterpiece... Plus, I don't play with naive fanboys... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 18:42, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::If you would take the time to look at the trailer and use your words rather than skip to some nonsense about Black Ops 2, a game I haven't played not that it even matters, you might notice that Franklin uses the same pistol later in the trailer, his is fitted with an extended magazine and is seemingly firing on full auto, so, my suggestion that it's TDI Kard, I thought, might make a bit more sense than just losing your mind and writing off a whole title based on the appearance of a single handgun in the game. I can see how that might read as naivete though, I've had the wool pulled over my eyes and have been tricked into accepting a game in spite of the massive flaws it's exhibited in the design of one of it's firearms in a few seconds of footage and a screenshot or two, right?--[[User:Toadvine|Toadvine]] ([[User talk:Toadvine|talk]]) 12:27, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
::::::Yes. Btw, are you directing that comment to me or Commando552? --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 16:45, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::At least some of it was directed at me so will address that part first. If your only evidance for it being a Kard is that it fires on full auto, then you should know that there are many other production pistols that are capable of full auto fire, not to mention the fact that it is possible to convert pistols to full automatic. Regardless of this, it is a game where they can give a gun whatever characteristics they choose so whether or not it is depicted as firing in full auto means nothing in real terms. Secondly, I have to say again it looks absolutely nothing like a Kard. If you can't see this then there is nothing that I can say to change your mind, but when I look at it I see absolutely nothing about the gun that suggests they based anything off of the Kard. If you put a gun to my head and made me take a guess at what it is meant to be I would probably say I highly customised (or very poorly modeled) full auto Glock, or maybe something like an Arsenal Strike One (which is available in FA/burst versions) but the shape is not really anything like one, it is just reminiscent of one if the "rail" on the front of the slide was actually the front slide serrations. In general can everyone chill out a bit about this game, we could do without the GTA talk pages degrading into a bitch fest like the COD ones historically have. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:51, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
::::::::I have to agree with Commando on the fact that it looks nothing like a Kard. Maybe a fuse of a badly-rendered Glock and a I9II... I also have to agree with Commando on the latter; regardless of my opinion on the possible depiction of guns/gunlay, there's no doubt that GTA V is going to be a great game (knowing Rockstar). Altough I still stand by my comment about not acquiring the game in the future, I realize that I shouldn't have been so outspoken about it, especially here, on the IMFDB. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 22:25, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
Well, look at MoH:WF, a game with accurate gun play but pretty mediocre everywhere else. Your opinion is yours, but what about Read Dead Redemption?[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 11:38, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:Well don't get me wrong. I care about other elements besides gunplay such as gameplay and story. And as for RDR it was pretty accurate aside from a few minor mistakes.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 12:05, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::I agree with you, RDR was, and still is, pretty awesome. I still play it with my friends sometimes. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 18:42, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
Speaking of rails on the slide, it's been confirmed that we get weapon AND car customization to a pretty nice degree. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 15:19, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::Don't get me wrong, I always enjoy the stories and the messages Rockstar provides in their games. But I've never been a fan of the GTA-gunplay. I'll be going for Saints Row IV this fall, instead of this. At least they don't even TRY to make the game realistic, so the gunplay is WAAAAY over the top. But that just makes it fun. PS. I enjoyed MOH:W... well, to a certain degree.--[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 15:56, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::: Well, the gunplay that we've seen in the trailer (and confirmed in interviews) actually comes much more from Max Payne 3. You can run and gun without needing to aim and slow your movement, as well as switch between hard lock, soft lock, and full free aim in the options to suit your play style. You've still got the cover shooting and blindfiring, but you can actually be mobile in gunfights. There's also new options like being able to get in and out of a car while staying low to take cover behind it, as well as entering and exiting a car already shooting. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:33, 16 July 2013 (EDT)

Has anyone considered that the pistol above could be a placeholder for something more real.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|One shot is all it takes.]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 15:40, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:Its a possibility but given how we're two months away from release its unlikely.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:18, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

I don't think it is a placeholder, but I think there is a possibility that it is a bug where the wrong texture is on the model or it is using the low detail distance model or something, as there are several inconsistencies that make not sense. Firstly you have the fact that there is what appears to be a rail (which is scaled way too small) on the side of the slide. Then you have those weird horizontal black lines at the front of the slide and frame. Assuming that the black square at the back is meant to be the slide serrations, they span across both the slide and the top of the frame, which I have never seen on a real pistol. There are generally also lines all over the place on both the slide and frame which have no business being there on either a real gun, or a gun that is suggested by the silhouette of this. To top it off it also looks like it is ejecting rifle sized brass, but this is really the least of its problems. To me this gun looks ''so'' bad that it must be an error or something. It isn't just low detailed or simplified, or with random parts switched out for aesthetics, it actually appears deliberately FUBAR'd for no apparent reason. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:17, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

I'm inclined to agree with Commando. All the guns on the page are designed relatively accurately except this one, which makes me think it's a texture bug. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 22:22, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

The Pistol is This ? Houge 1911 Avenger System - [[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] ([[User talk:KINKI'boy|talk]]) 22:48, 6 August 2013 (JST)
[[File:1911 Avenger System.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hogue 1911 Avenger System]]

== AR 15 reloading ==

Did anyone notice in the new gameplay video that when Franklin pulls the charging handle of his AR15, a empty shell falls ?

Does that means that his gun jammed, or Rockstar Games made a shell fall each time the charging handle is pulled ? [[User:Zebracherub|Zebracherub]] ([[User talk:Zebracherub|talk]]) 10 July 2013 (GMT)

:Probably the latter. And sign your posts by typing four tildes after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:32, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

: It seems like they're doing the same thing as Metal Gear Solid 4, where Snake always racks the charging handle (ejecting an unfired round if it's a mid-mag reload) to chamber a fresh round after inserting the new magazine. This lets them stay realistically detailed while avoiding the +1 confusing that more casual players would have; keep it simple. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 16:23, 20 July 2013 (EDT)
::It really is kinda stupid and kinda lazy for animating a reload. Instead of programing someone doing nothing when you do a mid mag reload, they just left the reload animation program run, and I think the extra round coming out is really for the Hollywood effect. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:02, 21 July 2013 (EDT)
:: It's easier and less resource intensive to add a simple model of a cartridge flying out and use the same animation every time. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:01, 31 July 2013 (EDT)
Didn't he pull the charging handle a bit too far? [[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 16:20, 17 July 2013 (EDT)
::Looks pretty normal to me [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:06, 17 July 2013 (EDT)

Wouldn't also be more confortable to just hit the bolt release ? If doing a mid mag reload, nothing to do because a round is chambered, but it seems more natural to me to just hit the bolt release than racking the charging handle. [[User:Zebracherub|Zbracherub]] ([[User talk:Zebracherub|talk]]) 06:05, 28 July 2013 (GMT)

:It would, but this is GTA, where any random joe can hop in and know how to pilot a fighter plane or kill hundreds of people at a time without Homeland Security (or NOOSE, as they're called in-game) locking the city down like Guantanamo Bay NS, so it's not that big a deal IMO. Besides, I'd say this is just Rockstar showing off and proving they're still the pimps of the gaming industry. Aaargh! Why won't September 17th get here sooner?! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 03:08, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

Theres lots of screen shots on the official site, some with weapons (an MP5 being fired by a SWAT member from an SUV). As for the flying part I thought they confirmed only Trevor is good at flying, it is possible there are missions the others learn to do that, SA had them, and we don't really know Niko didn't have any background in flying, Vercetti had little background at all and he was pretty old. As for the killing part most games have that I mean look at shooters even if we ignore the regeneration its quite improbable that one men can take out 20 in open shootout. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 12:32, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

:Nope, all three characters can operate any vehicle in the game, each one is just going to be better in one area than the others. This was confirmed by Rockstar in a Q&A posted on TGTAP forums. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:46, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

== CTAR-21 ==

I only noticed after editing the G11 to a CTAR-21, but does nayone know if this is meant to be the same gun just in different builds?
[[File:GTAVPossibleAUG.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[File:GTAV TAR-21.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
From the fact that it is someone using the gun firing from a helicopter, at another helicopter, I would assume that this is the same piece of gameplay just with altered models. The confusing thing though is that the picture with the better correctly looking CTAR-21 is from November last year, as opposed to the crappy modded for no reason Tavor which is from a recent gameplay trailer. This would suggest that either the recent gameplay trailers used a '''very''' out of date build, or they deliberately messed with the weapons to make them less correct at some point during development, I would guess for legal reasons. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:05, 6 August 2013 (EDT)
: It's fully possible that they altered the models to make them look different purely because they liked it better that way. They're making entertainment that looks good, not real-life gun porn. Aesthetic considerations are important. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 15:43, 15 August 2013 (EDT)
This is from the multiplayer trailer. It's definitely not in the TAR-21 family.
[[File:Gta5 online 32.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

A new screenshot was released showing a closer shot of the Tavor and it seems to have a P90-style fore-end.

[[File:GTA5-Tavor-Helicopter.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:06, 7 September 2013 (EDT)

== New Pictures ==

Two new photos have been released of a sniper rifle and that AP Pistol. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 15:49, 15 August 2013 (EDT)

[[Image:gtav10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[Image:gtav11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Also, I need to work at getting some caps from the new multiplayer trailer. But the apparent CTAR-21 (known in-game as the Advanced Rifle) actually doesn't really look like said gun in the final game except in the barest sense.

== New SMG ==

Thanks to iNero from GTA Forums for the picture. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 16:40, 22 August 2013 (EDT)

[[Image:gtasmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Looks like an oversized MP5A3.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 18:16, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
:: Highly doubt that. The only part of the shape that really matches an MP5A3 is the stock, and it has a short, straight magazine. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 15:03, 23 August 2013 (EDT)
:::Well as for the short mag, Rockstar said that weapon customization is going to be featured. So maybe the 10 round (civilian legal?) magazines is going to be an option. Also straight MP5 mags do exist. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:47, 23 August 2013 (EDT)
:::Straight MP5 magazines are older ones, and that doesn't match the pattern. The magwell is also too large for the magazine and it's sticking out at an awkward angle. And again, there's absolutely nothing that actually resembles an MP5 except for maybe the stock. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 17:25, 23 August 2013 (EDT)
:::Looking at the SMGs currently documented on the site, I think it now looks similar to a [[FAMAE SAF]]
[[Image:SAF.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAE SAF - 9x19mm]]
[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 17:33, 23 August 2013 (EDT)

Who labeled it a CZ Scorpion EVO 3? Looks a little like in the lower receiver/trigger guard area, but the rest is more MP5/SAF.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 14:23, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

:It looks like an MP5 with a sort of super-short G3 handguard. There's a closeup of it on one of the loading screens. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:00, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

== M82? ==

Is it just me, or does the rifle in the first picture of the "Unknown Sniper Rifle" section (the one Franklin is holding on the roof) look a lot like an M82 variant? it has the muzzle brake and what we see of the body has the general shape. I don't have the pic now, but a recently released photo shows the sniper rifle on the weapon wheel photo and it's NOT the same gun. It actually looks closer to an Accuracy International rifle. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 03:39, 26 August 2013 (EDT)

It's a Barrett all right, check this screencap.
http://gyazo.com/946b75dda4df617e58df36a566d7812a.png
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:38, 26 August 2013 (EDT)

== GTA Online Rifle ==
Found this over on Grand Theft Wiki.

[[File:GTAOnlineRifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

They have it identified as a SCAR-L, but it's hard to make out. General shape is right for a SCAR, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:58, 2 September 2013 (EDT)

== MK18 artwork ==
I separated it from the LR300 section since they clearly aren't the same weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 14:55, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

==Smith and Wesson M&P or Springfield XD? Can't identify.==
A person on another forum posted this pic of Michael holding a nickle plated handgun but the view is only from the top. I don't think it's a Glock because of the way the ejection port looks but I might be wrong. I can't see an exposed hammer. Any help?

http://media.gtanet.com/gallery/gta-5-screenshots/fullsize/344.jpg

It could be a colored "AP Pistol". Paint jobs are among the weapon customization options. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:39, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
: I don't think so. The side rails on the slide are so thick that they would be visible in this image. On GTA Forums there are suggestions that it's a S&W semi-auto. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 07:59, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
::The side rails on the AP pistol are just on the texture and not on the model aren't they? With a new skin the AP pistol could look totally different. Either way there isn't enough to go on from that shot to determine what it is. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:17, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
:: It's difficult to tell. One other thing that makes me less convinced that it's the AP Pistol is that this gun has noticeable sights (The AP Pistol distinctly lacks them in all screenshots), and it seems to have a shorter barrel. It's almost definitely a separate gun, unless the customization options are more in-depth than we thought. Another suggestion might be a Taurus 24/7 or similar, as that gun is striker-fired, definitely comes in that finish, and has a similar sight profile from the top. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 22:03, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

Side thought - is the AR that Franklin is holding missing the end of the buttstock or is that texture clipping? --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 15:10, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
: Pretty sure that's just clipping. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 22:03, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

== Game Guide leak ==

Pics of the official game guide are turning up online.
http://imgur.com/a/ov4Rc#ZQjg5L3
http://imgur.com/a/vnbVM

No pics of the SMG or LMG sections yet. If you search for GTA V ammunation on youtube you'll find offscreen footage of a guy walking around the gun shop. You can see some sort of RPK clone on the wall.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 11:53, 12 September 2013 (EDT)
: No RPK, but the early game machine gun (the "MG") is pretty much just a PKM. Virtually all of the weapons in the game are already on the page. There's also an Assault Shotgun (which some say looks like a UTS 15 with a box magazine to resemble an AA-12), a sawed-off pump-action that may also be based on a Mossberg 500/590, the Combat Pistol (silver pistol held by Michael in the recently released trio pic, which reminds me of a Taurus PT 24/7 or Ruger P-series like the P97 with a stainless slide), and a Taser. The "unknown pistol" in the article is the PT92, which is apparently chambered in .45 ACP with a standard 12 round magazine. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 00:05, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

== New SMG ==
This is an exclusive unlock for joining the Rockstar social club.

[[File:SC SMG.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Not sure what it is myself. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:31, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

As far as I can see, it's 100% fictional. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 05:06, 14 September 2013 (EDT)

:Yeah, seems so. And ugly as hell. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 15:08, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

:I see a birdcage flash hider, and the rest looks like the Halo 2/3 Battle Rifle. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 00:11, 17 September 2013 (EDT)

::Now that you mentioned that, I looked up what Halo battle rifle looks like, and I think this submachine gun might have also borrowed some design decisions from Halo's submachine gun. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 02:09, 17 September 2013 (EDT)

:It also has a resemblance to the RCP-120 from Perfect Dark. [[User:RadiumMetal|RadiumMetal]] ([[User talk:RadiumMetal|talk]]) 17:21, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

== Barrett M-107 A1? ==

[[File:GTA5SNIPER1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

The muzzle brake and the right side of the gun, and also the color is very similar to the M-107 A1 than the AS50, is it real?

Check out the Gyazo link in my posts above. If you pause at the right moment, the rifle is a Barrett with a raised full length rail.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:36, 16 September 2013 (EDT)

== Combat Pistol ==

After unlocking the Combat Pistol in the game and using it quite a bit I'm thinking that it resembles some sort of HK pistol. Initially I thought it was like a USP Compact but I've thought it might be more like a HK45 or HK45c. I'm not sure though as at first I thought it was a Px4. Anyone else have any ideas what it could be? --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 10:39, 20 September 2013 (EDT)
:The [http://gta.wikia.com/Weapons_in_GTA_V GTA Wiki] lists the combat pistol as the Taurus (well, they say Beretta but we know what they mean), or is that not the case in the final game? Also, that page has a picture of the assault shotgun, which appears to be an [[UTAS UTS-15]] which has been slightly messed with and had a box mag stuck on the bottom. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:51, 20 September 2013 (EDT)
::The basic pistol is the Taurus not the combat pistol. They list the basic pistol as a P99 so it could be that the combat pistol is a P99. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 15:53, 20 September 2013 (EDT)
::I concur, the Combat Pistol definitely looks like a P99 to me. Glad they didn't rehash the 1911 or Glock again for the umpteenth time (not that I don't love 1911s and Glocks, I very much do ;D ). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:38, 21 September 2013 (EDT)
:::Having got a decent look at it today I don't think it's a P99. It's got an exposed hammer and the general shape it more like a Beretta Px4 having taken a much closer look at it. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 18:45, 21 September 2013 (EDT)
::::I'm only going by a tiny thumbnail (don't have the game) but it looks a bit like a [[CZ-G2000]] with a less sever angles around the trigger. This is pretty similar to the PX4, but I think it is a closer match as it has a square trigger guard and doesn't have an ambi safety (thumbnail I've seen is of the right side which lacks a safety). The profiling of the slide is also closer and the serrations look the same design (although there is one less band at both the front and back). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:37, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
::::I'd rather say a Px4 at this point. I've seen it up close (I DO have the game) and it looks a lot more like it was based on the Px4. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 13:06, 26 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::I'm going to say having spend about half an hour moving the camera around trying to get really close shots of it that it is a Px4 more than anything else. The slide profile matches, the frame matches, the back of it matches. The only thing that doesn't match is the width of the slide serrations but that could just be a texture choice. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 12:53, 28 September 2013 (EDT)
::::::I'm going to venture a guess and say it's a combo of a Px4 and a P99, with the Px4 traits shining out the most. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 22:05, 28 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I don't know who it was who put the combat pistol as the H&K P2000 but it looks nothing like that. If it looks like any H&K pistol it's either the HK45c or the P30. I'm still leaning towards the Beretta Px4 though. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 08:30, 29 September 2013 (EDT)

Picked up the guide yesterday evening while I was out and the "Combat Pistol" shown in it matches the general shape of the P2000, actually. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 11:20, 29 September 2013 (EDT)
:No one else sees a bit of the PT-909 in it?
[[File:Tau.jpg|thumb|none|800px]]
Remember no gun will be an exact match. They're all tweaked.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 18:10, 29 September 2013 (EDT)

http://gyazo.com/4758e01a97e67d85191a02b267d98a60.png
The trigger guard and rail look P2000, but the rest resembles the Px4 to me.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 14:13, 20 October 2013 (EDT)

== Combat MG ==
It's not a Stoner, but rather an M60/M249 hybrid. Basically the stock of an M60, while everything in front of is is M249. Making appropriate changes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:38, 21 September 2013 (EDT)

== Guns on the TV programs ==

Killed a bit of time as Michael and watched the TV at his house. One of the channels was a FIB program called 'The Underbelly of Paradise'. One of the highlights was a few weapons on a table and one of the guns was a SIG P220-series pistol. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 21:57, 21 September 2013 (EDT)

There's also a brief shot of an M1911A1 cycling on an old-style crime show/movie and if you watch Jimmy playing ''Righteous Slaughter'' (a CoD/MoH/BF parody) in his room, the game character uses an XCR and a stainless steel Desert Eagle wielded tandem with a knife in the Harris stance. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 11:08, 29 September 2013 (EDT)

And the preview for the in-game movie ''The Simian'', which I saw while hanging out with Jimmy at a movie theater, has several shots of Hunter attack helicopters and at least one clear shot of the M230 chain gun on one of them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:25, 29 September 2013 (EDT)

== What's up with the Carbine Rifle changes? ==

Uhhh... Guys? The new Carbine really looks like the LR-300 and I thought it was agreed on. I don't know why we needed the change. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 20:03, 24 September 2013 (EDT)
:I wasn't the one who changed it, but I 100% agree with the change. First off, it isn't an LR-300 as the overriding unique feature about the LR-300 is that it doesn't have a buffer tube. This gun has a buffer tube. That is before we even get into the fact that the game gun has different furniture and a VLTOR MUR receiver rather than the unique LR-300 one. As with most of the weapons in the game this appears to be a hybrid gun at best, so it can't really be given a proper ID other than a custom AR-15. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:12, 24 September 2013 (EDT)
:The assault rifle looks like a Hecker & Koch HK416 to me. -[[User:1morey]] September 25, 2013 8:43 AM (EST)
::It isn't, as far as I can tell there is not a single part on this that matches the HK416: the upper has the brass deflector built into the front of the forward assist like on a VLTOR MUR; the magazine fence on an HK416 is rounded whereas on this it is flat making it look more like one of the many different billet lowers that are available from various manufacturers; the stock is an ACE stocj which appears to be incorrectly depicted as extendable; the handguard is possibly a Daniel Defence MFR, but if not is definitely isn't a piston HK416 one. None of these parts are really perfect matches, but seeing the quality of the models on the other guns this isn't really to be expected. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:36, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
:::Hmm...after looking through the M16 gallery, and the Colt AR-15 identification guide, and doing some googling, It seems like it COULD POSSIBLY be a hybrid of a Daniel Defense MFR and ZM LR-300, while trying to look like a HK416 (beefy handguard and short barrel), I can't shake it, to me it screams Franken-HK416, don't know why. -[[User:1morey]] September 25, 2013 1:02 PM (EST)
::::Look at the forwards assist and brass deflector area of this gun:[[File:GTAV_AR15.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]Note how the forward assist is a large flat faced wedge with the plunger coming out the bottom half of it, with a brass deflector attached at the top front corner. Now compare that to the below image:[[File:NovesDiplomat.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Noveske Rifleworks N4 Diplomat with VLTOR Modstock, EOTech sight and Surefire M900 weapon-light fore-grip - 5.56x45mm]]Notice they are a match. This is a unique thing that is only found on VLTOR MUR and VIS upper receivers (one pictured above is a VIS, MUR is the version without a monolithic handguard) and is due to the forward assist being able to be removed and replaced with a blanking plate fitted only with a brass deflector. Both the HK416 and the Z-M variants used different upper receiver designs to this, so it isn't either of them. I doubt that this is any factory gun in particular, it could be that the modellers just picked and chose various parts and stuck them together to make a gun they liked the look of, or it could be modelled off of a real custom gun that somebody has made. I don't get why people seem to think this is a HK416 (not just you, have seen people all over the place call it that) if the only thing they are going on is the fact it has a short barrel and a chunky handguard, there are a hell of a lot of guns that fit this description and are a closer match than an HK416, like this [[Media:POF P-416-11.JPG|Patriot Ordnance Factory P416]] for example. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:27, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
:All the guns are hybrids, and the game's artists won't be familiar with the internals so I would go with the gun that is most similar in look, even if the similarities are all on the cosmetic parts and the dissimilarities affect the internals. Also the Combat SMG is an MP5 hybrid, not a Scorpion.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 11:15, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

== pics of all guns except special edition weapons ==

I went and got the game guide. Here are pics of all the guns.

http://s13.postimg.org/5humxnsfr/gta_Weap.png

[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 15:23, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

== ANALYSIS: Daniel Defense MFR 9.0 (Airsoft) ==

I've identified the firearm "Carbine Rifle", I analyzed it done here

[[Image:Socom-Gear-Daniel-Defense-MFR-9-001.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daniel Defense MFR 9.0 Airsoft]]
[[Image:Socom-Gear-Daniel-Defense-MFR-9-002.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daniel Defense MFR 9.0 Airsoft]]

Ace skeleton stock:

[[Image:Ace Stock Medium1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ace skeleton Stock]]

Reference: http://jagprecision.com/daniel-defense-m4-mfr-series-from-socom-gear/

PaulD21x (talk) 08:27, 27 September 2013 (VE)

Nailed it, nice.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:58, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

:Not really, look a couple of sections above. The handguard is a Daniel Defence MUR (or at least a close approximation of one), but the upper receiver appears to be a VLTOR and the lower is not a DD one. Also you have the fact that the stock appears to be an Ace ARFX-E "Entry" stock which is the short one but this is fixed and not retractable, whereas this is extended out on the buffer tube like a regular AR-15 carbine style stock (I assume this is more due to ignorance rather than it being based on something else). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:43, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

:I think it is a customized gun with a Daniel Defense MFR handguard, VLTOR MUR upper, Brownells 3 pongs flash hidder, the lower looks to be a NorthTech Billet receiver (with de fix trigger guard), the front BUIS is like a Troy Front sight and the rear a A2 type but simplified (or an unknow model), Hogue pistol grip (or any other model) and the ACE stock (but we can see they are nothing to move it because it is a fix stock and not a telescopic, an error). But it is not a basic model for me. --[[User:ArmaLite15|armalite15]] ([[User talk:Armalite15|talk]])

== "Combat Pistol" ==

Me again, noting that you guys missed a pistol.

Of course, this pistol is simply called the "Combat Pistol" and resembles the Beretta PX4 Storm Subcompact in a way. I have no way of getting screens and I haven't seen any so far. I haven't progressed far enough into the game to unlock it, but it can be viewed at the Ammunation stores if anyone had the game and wants to look. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 22:12, 27 September 2013 (EDT)
:No, we haven't missed it. Read a couple discussions above, we're still trying to come to a consensus on what it is. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:51, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

Ah, I see sorry. I missed that discussion. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 22:03, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

== Phone shots ==

So I hear you could take snaps using the in-game smart phone. Would it be possible to get some screenshots that way? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:37, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
:Not sure, you have to sign up to Rockstar Social Network to do it, and I ''bet'' it watermarks them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:45, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
::Actually there is no watermark, but these pictures are only 640x360, and have a filter added that makes them look like low quality analog picture.--[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 15:34, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

I don't think you can take phone pictures while armed, although you might get some from cops or security guards with guns, and take photos in the Ammu-Nation.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:30, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

== In case you're wondering... ==

Cleetus' second hunting mission is bugged (hopefully forever) and when he tells you to hunt the last Elk it lets you wander the entire map with no possibility of triggering a police alert, meaning you can wander around in the military base to your hearts' content. You can keep anything you take by just causing an explosion (''anywhere'' on the map, but the jet's missiles don't count) which will spook the elk and let you quit out of the mission. I can't find anywhere to store the tank that Trevor can own, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:49, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

I'm gonna have to exploit that. I've tried constantly to get a Titan, but I can never get it off the ground before a tank blows me up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:54, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

== Can we just settle on the "Carbine Rifle" by describing the components that it's constructed from? ==
It's obvious that it's not any named product (like the DDM4 it's currently IDed as but clearly is not), so can we just call it a custom AR-15 (like we do other franken ARs), ID it by its individual components, then be done with it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:30, 3 November 2013 (EST)

Moving these here for now, since I've changed the Carbine Rifle entry to reflect that it is ''not'' a DDM4.
[[File:DDM4sbr.jpg|thumb|none|500px|DDM4 300 SBR with Magpul MOE stock, Magpul PMAG magazine, and KAC vertical foregrip - 300 BLK]]
[[Image:AF02-F-OT-ARFXE-ARULE-5.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Ace Skeleton Stock]]
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:53, 19 November 2013 (EST)

== Beach Bum pistol ==

A new handgun will be added in the next update/free DLC, called the "SNS"

http://s.pro-gmedia.com/videogamer/media/images/xbox360/gta5/screens/gta5_269_605x.jpg

Probably a movie reference, perhaps it's a Walther PP of some form.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:49, 13 November 2013 (EST)

Beach Bum pack is out, the SNS pistol looks like a Heckler & Koch P7 M13 fitted with wood grips and a round trigger guard.[[User:Zebracherub|Zebracherub]] ([[User talk:Zebracherub|talk]]) 20:01, 19 November 2013 (GMT)

== Gun pic on Social Club ==

Close view of the most used gun can be seen in the Social Club.

[[File:SocialClubAR15.jpg]]

This is a Northtech Billet lower, VLTOR Upper, A2 type "simplified" rear sight, ergonomical pistol grip but the upper is strange, it is raised up like the HK-416. And the handguard is very close to the Daniel Defense MFR 9.0..[[User:ArmaLite15|ArmaLite15]] ([[User talk:ArmaLite15|talk]]) 19:43, 17 November 2013

== "Carbine Rifle" mounting an image ==

Since I edited the image from Photoshop, is a mixture: that's to HK-416 - Northtech Billet lower, A2 type "simplified" rear sight, ergonomical pistol grip, Brownells 3 pongs flash hidder, Ace Skeleton Stock And the handguard is the Daniel Defense MFR 9.0
[[File:GTAVCARBINERIFLEMIXTURE.jpg|thumb|none|700px]]
[[User:PaulD21x|PaulD21x]] ([[User talk:PaulD21x|talk]]) 21:23, 21 November 2013

Is that a Pimpmygun pistol grip? [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:06, 21 November 2013 (EST)

No, I'm pretty sure he just Shopped in the grip from the Social Club image above. Also, if you wanted to create a composite, you could have just done an image search for the actual lower receiver used (I found plenty on Bing), because as has been previously stated, '''not a single component on this gun corresponds to the HK416'''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 10:39, 22 November 2013 (EST)
:There is possibly part of an HK416 potentially in there, as in the social club image you can see that the shape of the top rail at the rear steps down ahead of the charging handle like an HK416, which is not the case with a VLTOR MUR which the rest of the receiver is. This composite photoshop just uses a vanilla HK416 upper though which is not correct for the game gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:15, 22 November 2013 (EST)

It's all moot now, because I've solved the image problem. Found this during a Bing search for "gta v carbine rifle".

[[File:GTA5-Carbine-Rifle-Example.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The in-game "Carbine Rifle" - 5.56x45mm]]
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:23, 22 November 2013 (EST)
:On seeing that, it looks like it has an HK416 gas block as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:27, 22 November 2013 (EST)

== Combat MG ID and non-player weapons ==
This is a response to Ultimate94 recently changing the MK46 Mod 0 ID back to Mod 1. The Mod 1 lacks a 12 o'clock Picatinny, using the M249 heat shield instead. This was done, AFAIK, to facilitate the re-inclusion of the carry handle. The Combat MG has a Picatinny rail in this position (albeit a low profile one), which would therefor make it a Mod 0. The weapon render linked to on the GTA Wiki is far too small to discern any details from, so doesn't prove anything.

Why were the non-player weapons added back to the main categories? Every other GTA game on IMFDb is formatted with non-player weapons in a separate "Other" category. What's the objection to this page being the same?

The artwork of Michael holding the MK18 doesn't appear in the game as a loading screen (unlike the Type 56 artwork), so it should be deleted from the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:42, 30 December 2013 (EST)

== Valentines Day M1928 Thompson ==
So there's going to be a free Chicago Typewriter coming up.
http://socialclub.rockstargames.com/news/article/52186/Coming-this-Friday-The-GTA-Online-Valentine-s-Day-Massacr[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:23, 11 February 2014 (EST)

It's classed as an LMG in-game, with superior stats compared to the PKM (except for mag capacity), making it a good choice for anyone who hasn't unlocked the PKM, or someone who can live without the extra ammo capacity or aim-down-sight zoom (Tommy Gun doesn't get an optic) until they unlock the M249/M60 hybrid --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 03:33, 15 February 2014 (EST)

== Removing images ==

I'm in favor of keeping the PKM image on the page, but only because this page is currently incomplete and it's the only screenshot available. I expect a better image will be available when more screencaps are available and the page is completed. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 18:49, 25 February 2014 (EST)

== Cut weapons ==

So I just found this, worthy of mention in the discussion page at least:
http://gtaforums.com/topic/678397-the-gta-v-beta-hunt/page-6

In addition to several melee weapons, there are some icons for the XM25, a DMR variant of the AR-15 (seems to be referred to as M14), a HK21, and a SCAR-H.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:44, 26 February 2014 (EST)

A poster there states they weren't cut, but rather just aren't enabled for player use. So maybe Rockstar is holding them back as future DLC? I'd love to have that AR-15 sniper rifle (which resembles an M110A1, which, AFAIK, is an M110 with the fixed stock replaced with a collapsible one). I always felt the next upgrade from the bolt action should have been a semi-auto .308, with the Barrett placed in the slot with the MGL, RPG, and Minigun, and made to do more damage to vehicles. The stock on the SCAR's in-game render looks like it was taken from the LSAT machine gun, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:29, 26 February 2014 (EST)

== New upcoming DLC ==
The "Heavy Pistol" and "Special Carbine" will be released next week.
[[File:GTAV-HeavyPistol-SpecialCarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
The carbine is clearly a G36K, but the pistol seems to be a 1911 of some kind. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:23, 27 February 2014 (EST)

From looking at the gun itself and at the Social Club page, I think the pistol looks a lot more like a 1911 than an FNX-45, or maybe some sort of Kimber-esque thing. The grip and grip panels look far more 1911 than FN. Cheers, [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])
*EDIT: here's a link that shows the Social Club image, and shows how it more resembles either a regular 1911 or some sort of Kimber-style tactical model: http://gta.wikia.com/Heavy_Pistol [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])

It most resembles a [[Springfield_Armory_1911_Series#Springfield_Armory_Tactical_Response_Pistol_.28TRP.29|Springfield TRP Operator]] with the slide derived from the OTs-33 to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:44, 4 March 2014 (EST)

definitely looks like a Springfield TRP operator with mabye some cz97 http://www.lipseys.net/images/CZ01411.jpg?maxwidth=520--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] ([[User talk:Anarchy66660|talk]]) 22:03, 4 March 2014 (EST)

Talk:Bones

2014-02-06T17:41:39Z

Anarchy66660: /* Determine */

==Booth's 1911==
If this is an FBI issue 1911 it's neither a sig nor an S&W. It's a Springfield Armory Pro Operator. Springfield's part number is PC9105LP and it is in the FBI's TOE (and is used by HRT among other units). The FBI currently issues Glock 22/23, and previously issued a Sig P226 (as can be seen in the X Files.) I'm not aware that either the S&W or the Sig 1911's are current issue though it's not impossible that the show simply got it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/66.93.203.152|66.93.203.152]] 21:52, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

It's a TV show, not reality. Not to mention, Bones isn't exactly set in reality. After all a Ghost saved Booth from the Gravedigger. TV, and film almost always go for what looks good, not what looks right. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 22:20, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I thought the ghost was part of the visions he was having from the brain tumor. He also had a cartoon character talk to him in an interrogation. -J3

Based on the screen-cap, it could be either. We'd need a profile shot to settle this, although the grips (if I remember right) were synthetic, which puts it firmly within the realm of S&W (why would you put commercial grips on a basically from-scratch custom 1911?); the whole page needs updates, anyway (still in Season 4).

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

I'm inclined to say it's a SIG GSR due to the squared appearence.

Can somebody tell me or share a picture of the colt m4a1 that uses booth in season 6 episode 22 "the hole in the heart"
pleas tell me or share a pic of the m4 that uses booth against broadsky in the boat launch
:Dude, it's in the page. -Survivalkid21

I am inclined to believe that it is the S&W due to the fact that the Sig GSR has a very distinct appearance to the slide. The older model Sig 1911 pistols have a "groove" on both sides of the barrel from the muzzle down to the ejection port. The S&W is more traditional in appearance with sides on the barrel. That is except for the external extractor that both of them have and that is clearly visible from the pics here. --[[User:Ram229|Ram229]] 23:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I know that for one of the 1911's booth uses but not shoots is acutally a WE Hicapa airsoft gun.[[User:DCD92|DCD92]]

==Booth's Revolver==
In numerous episodes of the first season booth is seen carrying a revolver as his primary weapon while on duty. Since I doubt he has been in the FBI since the 1980's this seems really odd especially because he constantly goes back and forth between this and his Glock between episodes. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

His revolver seems to be a smith and wesson 681 .357 magnum with after market grips.

You sure? I could of sworn it had adjustable sights. My guess would be a S&W Model 686, or possobly a 686P, with either a 3" or 4" barrel.

==alternate reality==

would someone please correct that one its not an alternate reality, its a dream sequence if it was alternate reality Booth wouldn't remember it and it wouldn't be discussed

Alternate reality doesn't have to be literal, Booths point of view was that it was real. Therefore a reality, and since not the primary, an alternate one. That was my thinking, and I have no problem with someone changing it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 20:08, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

==Needs Update==

I might just have to use my laptop to screencap previous and the latest season; if someone can update this show, could they? Please?

[[User:Anti-Umbrella Activist|Anti-Umbrella Activist]]

::Why are you asking others to update it? If they could, they would. But they can't, so they don't......[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:40, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't even know where to start; I can't even figure out how to screencap, much less insert photographs into the page. I don't even know the first thing about using HTML, and the only reason why I can sign my pages is because I saw the triple tilde on a Wikipedia post a while ago.

All I wanted to do was to flag it for someone else, so that maybe they could help. I couldn't find any kind of help page around here, and I don't know if this site uses the exact same type of page as Wikipedia (the code might be different or something), so I guess I'll just delete my account and go back to debating things that don't add up to much at Capcom-Unity or something...

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

If you want to screencap, download the VLC player. It has a screencap tool. Now even if you don't add screencaps, you can still "update" the page with what weapons are used in whatever episode. Like in SE3EP2 "Soccer Mom in the Mini-Van" A Smith & Wesson Model 19 was used. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

:::You would add...

Actually screencapping can be done using the windows snipping tool in conjuction with any vido player. I have the first four seasons on DVD but have several other movies I'm currently working on. I'll see about updating some of this within the next few weeks though. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]] 00:31, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Season Six just arrived on Netflix, and in the episode "The Bikini in the Soup", both Bones and Booth are seen using M1928 Thompson Submachineguns with round clips ear the end of the episode. There's also a good opportunity for a screencap of Booth's GSR.-Cutter9792, 12/21 2011

==Smith & Wesson Model 19==
A [[Smith & Wesson Model 19]] is seen being used in "Soccer Mom in the Mini-Van".
[[Image:S&W Model 19.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 19 Snub Nose (right side).]]

While there's no screencaps, it tells you what and where it was used. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:27, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

==Series 6==

Just watched the first episode, there are quite a few AK's, a tokarev, and Booth is packing an M4 with a Laser aiming module, Red dot sight, surefire torch and a front grip in Afghanistan --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 23:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

==Taurus Model 66==
Sheriff Leonard Wilkinson ([[Brian Howe]]) uses this revolver to hold a woman hostage, and shoot Bones in the arm.
[[Image:BONES-SHERIFF-REVOLVER.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sheriff Leonard Wilkinson ([[Brian Howe]]) his revolver, and his hostage.]]
Looks like a 686 to me. Frame looks less reflective than the cylinder as well. Could maybe be a 610 but I sincerely doubt it.--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 02:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
::That revolver looks TINY! Look how small it looks in his hand, compared to his face and the woman's face and hands. It must be a .22 revolver. Also the front sight post looks out of scale for a 686. [[Special:Contributions/75.36.151.143|75.36.151.143]] 11:21, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
:: Could also be a UHC Airsoft Spring or Gas Powered revolver. They make a model very close to the S&W 686

== The Man in the Fallout Shelter--Season One ==

In season one (I'm just now seeing the show for the first time...), the episode 'The Man in the Fallout Shelter' has a brief shot of a photo of a mummified man with a pistol held across his chest. It's old, could be S&W or Colt. It looks familiar, but I can't place it.

Anyone?

The shot is in the first few minutes of the show, as Booth hands over a suitcase full of goodies to Bones, then gets dragged off to the Christmas party by the elfin Angela. I should be so lucky....
[[File:Bones 104.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Yup--that's the one...what izzit? It appears to be hammerless...in fact, it appears that there's NO ROOM for a hammer! Bad prop gun?

Maybe a hammerless Harrington & Richardson Model 949 revolver? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 17:28, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

== Determine ==
[[File:Booth's1911-8x17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"The Fact in the Fiction" (S08E17)]]
What M1911 is Booth wielding this time? [[User:TitaniumAlloy|TitaniumAlloy]] ([[User talk:TitaniumAlloy|talk]]) 17:16, 26 August 2013 (EDT)

im pretty sure it a S&W 1911 due to the external extractor --[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] ([[User talk:Anarchy66660|talk]]) 12:41, 6 February 2014 (EST)

Talk:The Expendables 2

2012-08-18T23:25:00Z

Anarchy66660: /* Awesomeness */

==Hemsworth's piece==
[[Image:Ex2Hemsworth.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Lima Hemsworth also has an AR-15 type rifle in the teaser, but only the combat scope on the waepon is seen clearly. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 07:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

It's a Barrett [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:22, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

== Poster ==

As good as the poster looks, is actually the real one? I seem to remember it coming out a few weeks ago but was dismissed as an incredibly well made fake, as the text at the bottom is gibberish. Having said that, the weapons (for the most part, G36K rather than G36C) and costumes seem to match, so perhaps it is an early mockup with gibberish text as a place holder, but either way I believe Millennium Films requested that it be taken down from various websites. I believe the poster below, boring as it may be, is the official one that was released with the trailer.--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
[[File:The-expendables-poster.jpg|thumb|300px|none|''The Expendables 2'' (2012)]]

== Arnold and AA-12 ==

It does remind me of Commando. --[[User:Eisiishai|Eisiishai]] 03:30, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== Behind the scenes ==

Bunch of BTS weapon pics
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=36991167#post36991167
:If those aren't "official" behind the scenes images I don't think they are allowed to be posted here, you will have to check with a mod. However, while searching to find out where they came from, I found the following [http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.265642526828218.63020.115601671832305&type=1 facebook gallery] that has all of those images and more where I saw something insetting. In two of the pictures ([http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/546414_333627663363037_115601671832305_912554_356253241_n.jpg] and [http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/485714_333628380029632_115601671832305_912579_1021573352_n.jpg]) you can see that a few background people are using the AKs mocked up as M16s that were first used in ''[[Universal Soldier: Regeneration]]'' (that page IDs them as Arsenal rifle, but just realised whilst checking for this that they are actually Valmets). I find it hard to believe that they were able to get ACRs, SCARs, G36s, SG552s but couldn't get their hands on a genuine M16A2 but am fairly sure that is what they are (it is shot in Bulgaria as well). It could be the case that the "main" enemy weapons like the sniperised ACRs are shipped in, wheras the "background" enemy weapons like these fake M16s and the AKs (probably Arsenal ARs) are locally sourced. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:18, 16 April 2012 (CDT)
:Like I said, I would check with a mod first before adding any more of these behind the scenes images. When exactly the same situation occurred with the latest Transformers movie the images were removed so I wouldn't bank on it being different in this case. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:37, 16 April 2012 (CDT)
::It looks like some guy posted some personal photos. The facebook page is just a fan site as well. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:33, 16 April 2012 (CDT)
:::Unless these are official images they need to come down immediately; someone tell me if there's any sign of these being officially approved so I can tell if they need to be deleted completely or not. Also, the site's tagline is "guns in movies," not "guns on the floor of a warehouse." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:35, 16 April 2012 (CDT)
::::We're not allowed to post amateur BTS shots of films? Video game pages do it all the time. The guy's clear to post them on his facebook, hence all the stars posing with him. Also probably better to move the images to Discussion rather than delete them completely so sections can be restored when the film comes out. As for "no guns outside of movie footage", you should check some of the site's pages. Many of them use shots like that as it's the only way to get a clean view of them.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 09:01, 16 April 2012 (CDT)
:::::You're not allowed to use amateur shots unless it is ''absolutely'' clear that they have been released with the permission of the studio. I'm not sure what you mean about video games, we ''don't'' allow things like the MW3 leak on pages. And the problem isn't guns outside of movies, it's when the only picture of a gun on the page is it sitting on the floor of a warehouse, with no proof it's ever going to make it into any cut of the movie that a cinema-goer actually sees or for that matter is even in the movie. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:19, 16 April 2012 (CDT)
::::::There isn't really that much point moving to the discussion as right now apart from the disallowed photos all the sections contain is "X is seen in a BTS photo", which won't be in the entry when the page is made properly, so why preserve it? With other pages that include ''official'' behind the scenes images and caps, they are useful to show details of the gun and to help ID it. The links to the galleries are in this discussion page if anyone wants to look at the photos to help ID stuff when the movie comes out, so for now lets just wait and see what actually turns up in the movie. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:27, 16 April 2012 (CDT)
:::::::"''I'm not sure what you mean about video games, we don't allow things like the MW3 leak on pages."'' Uh, might want to double check that, the MW3 leak was there since the leak up until game release''."it's when the only picture of a gun on the page is it sitting on the floor of a warehouse, with no proof it's ever going to make it into any cut of the movie"'' The pics were taken specifically to show what guns would be in the movie. The reason there are two of them in each photo is in case one breaks, that's how much they're going to be using them. ''"all the sections contain is "X is seen in a BTS photo", which won't be in the entry when the page is made properly, so why preserve it?"'' Well, for me, I check this page (and others) before release because I want to know what guns will be used so I can get even more excited for seeing it. That's why many other people come to this site. You didn't think pages were traffic graveyards until release, did you? Also, what's the point of a site that covers guns in media if it suppresses info on guns in media.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 11:45, 17 April 2012 (CDT)
::::::::Just because a gun is on set doesn't mean it will be used (and if it is whether it will actually be visible in the finished film), that is pure presumption. And how do you know that "The pics were taken specifically to show what guns would be in the movie."? From what I have seen they are just pictures that were taken by a random extra or crew on set, if they were officially released by the film makers to show the range of weaponry that they will be using I'm fairly sure they wouldn't have been taken with such a crappy camera and would be available through other channels than forums and facebook pages. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:57, 17 April 2012 (CDT)
::::::::The MW3 leak was ''not'' up until the game was released, I removed those shots from the page myself almost as soon as they were put up. Leaked or unofficial images are not allowed, that's why the upcoming template specifically says all images must be from official sources. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:21, 17 April 2012 (CDT)
:::::::::New trailer shows Hemsworth with a Barret, JCVD with an AUG A3, and promo shots show Dolph with an MGL. Just like how all the MW3 leaked guns were in the final game, so will the guns from those shots be in this film, as they were obviously going to be since the beginning. Disturbing that a mod for the site seeks to reduce the info on guns in films and doesn't know much about film production.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 14:33, 3 May 2012 (CDT)
::::::::::Umm, just cause something appears in a promo or trailer does not, in fact, mean it appears in the film. There was a trailer for Predators that showed Adrian Brody standing there with around a dozen of the Predator laser sights focused on his chest, making it look like he was up against an army of predators. In the movie, there was a single laser on his chest, as he faced just the 1. In a trailer for the 3 Stooges movie, there's a scene where a nun in a bathing suit gets out of the pool and Curly comments on her hair being different. That scene was not in the final movie. There was another movie I recall awhile back(mighta been Blade 3 but I won't swear to it), where a weapon was shown on the film's official website that didn't make it into the movie itself either. So actually, no, just because a gun is on set somewhere does NOT mean it will a)make it to the final cut of the film, or b)make it into a scene where it can actually be identified. For example, a movie set might have a mix of Russian AKs, Chinese Norincos, and Bulgarian Arsenal ARs, then just randomly give them to "background" soldiers or whatever, where they won't be seen clearly enough to be identified individually in the film itself. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 02:26, 5 May 2012 (CDT)
Temp89, Tim is just doing his job. We could have serious reprocusions here if we posted unauthorised images here. We have several "deals" made with parties in the film industry and we got them by not posting Pirated or "leaked" information. On the Public Enemies page we had an image of a screen used M1911 machine pistol that we had to remove due to the studio's say so. While we might not have liked it it does cover our butts as far as the studios are concerned.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 15:36, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

New trailer has debuted...anyone up for going through it?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQf3YP8p85I&feature=youtu.be

==Couture's poster==

This one: http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Couture.jpg. Are you sure that's a Diplomat he's holding? The front sight and the barrel are wrong... -[[User:Sentient6|Sentient6]] 18:17, 6 June 2012 (CDT)
Well I think is M4 CQBR, although i put it under M4A1 Carbine.... -[[User:Kweon|Kweon]]

Barrel's too long to be a CQB-R / Mk. 18 Mod 0 - I'd say it's a 933. --Stix
:It isn't either, it is just a regular M4. You can see the step down for the grenade ring on the barrel ahead of the front sight. However, I think the barrel has been squashed down in photoshop so that the muzzle is on the poster, or the angle is making it look shorter than it is. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:57, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

I still think it might be a 933... I think we're agreed that the barrel's too long to be a Mk. 18, and *as pictured* it's way too short to be an M4 - looking hard at it, it's hard to tell what's barrel, what's flash hider and whether there's a squashed grenade ring or not. Yeh, it could be a photoshopped M4, but why would they bother to do that? I see the little dint in the barrel that might be a grenade ring, but could that not just be a blurry part of the flash hider? --Stix

:The gun he is physically holding is definitely an M4. [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_aL2DTDEFXs/T6qN_Fbw2XI/AAAAAAAAMPE/IX5aRsSr-pY/s1600/g3qko6Oj.jpg Here] is a higher res image where you can see the detail of the barrel. On an M4. the barrel is full width when it comes out of the front sight base, then tapers down at the greande ring before stepping up in thickness again, and then stepping down to a slightly norrower diameter just before the flash hider, as seen below: [[File:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M4A1 for reference]] All of these features are clearly visible on the poster, they have just been compressed to allow the gun to fit on the poster. A model 933 barrel is not contoured once it comes out of the front sight base. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:34, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

::Fair enough - I bow to your superior knowledge of boom-stix. :)
::I could make out all of the details you pointed out on the lower rez poster but was confused by the apparent stubbiness of the barrel... I also should humbly confess that my main reason for joining the discussion was the hope that spotting a slightly lesser known rifle would make me look cool.
::Looking at the higher rez pic now, it looks a little more like the barrel is the proper length (for an M4) and it's only the angle of the camera that makes it look shorter - comparing the barrel forward of the front sight with the length of the handguard (using my thumb as a ruler), they actually seem to be pretty close.
::Would the guys in charge of promoting the movie really edit an image to shorten a gun and make it fit in the photo frame? I still can't figure out why anyone would bother... Contrite respect --Stix
::(ps - I hope you'll forgive my correcting the spelling mistake in your last post :/ )

Just saying, but I believe that "grenade ring" is called a ''barrel step''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:02, 4 August 2012 (CDT)

== Lundgren's Poster ==

Fairly new to the site, so if I'm doing anything wrong, please let me know. Anyways, Lundgren seems to be holding a grenade launcher in this promo poster, looks like a Milkor MGL Mk 1S? http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/EX2_Lundgren.jpg

== Awesomeness ==

So, just saw and it, well, it's basically 100 minutes of badass. Better than the first...more action(and more clearly shot), more humor, more violence, just basically upped everything from the first. Admittedly I was having too much fun just watching but I noticed a lot more guns(and knives, and brass knuckles, and a tomahawk!) were used, too. Was having too much fun to really try and ID most of them, but I'm fairly certain Vilain uses a Walther P99(or one of the licensed versions) as well as his AUG. Also of note, Gunnar does indeed use the MGL shown on the poster, Maggie uses a UMP, and Christmas actually fires the MASS(to breach a door) as well as the M4 portion. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 18:58, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

Vilain indeed uses the Walther P99. Also in addition to his SAA and the Kimbers, I believe Barney Ross uses a SIG-Sauer in the beginning, then Maggie uses it. I couldn't tell exactly which model, it did look compact though [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 20:43, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

:Aye I saw Barney use something other than his usual pistols but I didn't notice what it was. I thought Maggie's pistol looked like a SIG but wasn't certain(and wasn't aware it was the gun Barney was using, the team swapped weapons out quite often here!). [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 00:21, 18 August 2012 (CDT)

It was certainly way more entertaining than the first film. As for the specific SIG model I am not sure, but I believe that it is a P226. There's a picture from the movie on Stallone's Facebook page that shows him holding it. [[FluidJordan]] 18:37, 18 August 2012 (EST)

the sig used by Barney and Maggie are both SIG Pro SP2022 http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/c/c7/SIG-SauerP2022Pro.jpg --[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] 18:25, 18 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:AK-47

2012-03-16T02:40:10Z

Anarchy66660: /* Vltor Modstock? */

__TOC__ 

=='''Image gallery - OTHER variants of the AK-47'''==
Since members get confused by some of the other (usually customized) variants made for movies, we should store the images here, so that all members can easily find a variant that they've seen in a movie or tv show. '''Note: These do NOT belong on the main AK-47 page because they are customized guns for films and not indicative of any 'production gun'.''' They are stored here for viewing and usage on movie pages that require them.

[[Image:AK47WeWereSoldiersHeroGun.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|'''Actual Screen used AK-47''' from the film [[We Were Soldiers]] (built by Cinema Weaponry) - 7.62x39mm.]]
[[Image:Type56MuzzleBrake.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 56-1 Mocked up to resemble [[AK-74#AKS-74|AKS-74]] - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Norinco56Mockup.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 56 Mocked up to resemble [[AK-74]] - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Type84HybridRifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 84S modified with a pig Sticker bayonet, no cleaning rod and milled front end with no detent pin (as seen in ''[[Hollow Point]]'') - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BellyNorincoType56-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Custom Norinco Type 56-1 nickel-plated, fitted with ivory furniture and a Romanian AIM-style vertical grip, originally made for the movie ''[[Belly]]'', also seen in ''[[Lord of War]]'' and ''[[Sopranos, The|The Sopranos]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Zastava M70AB2 with scope.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Zastava M70AB2 with scope - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:AK_open.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Custom-built gold-plated AK carbine from ''[[Lord of War]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Ak47mw.2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKM fitted with Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and an [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4 carbine]] stock and Stock Adapter similar to the one in ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]''.- 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:KrinkovQuadRail.jpg|thumb|none|500px| AKMSU with KCI quad rail system - 7.62x39mm.]]
[[File:AKPDW01.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKMSU with RIS handguard - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:PolytechGalilSidefolder.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Poly Tech AKS-47 [[Galil]] side-folder - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Wm 634735.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FEG AK-63E (Hungarian version of the AKMS) - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:RD-Maadi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Maadi ARM (AKM) - 7.62x39mm as used in ''[[Red Dawn]]'' (1984) (image from Long Mountain Outfitters)]]
[[Image:RomanianblackwidowAKfolder.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Romanian AKMS Black Widow - 7.62x39mm.]]
[[Image:Ak-47-weapon-accessories-desert-colourb.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-47 with a AR-15 stock and a synthetic handguard - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:AKWITHOUTSTOCK.JPG|thumb|500px|none|Airsoft AK-47 replica without stock - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Romanian-WASR-3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Romanian WASR-3 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Zastava_M80.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Zastava M80 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:PolyTechLegendAK47.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Poly Technologies Legend AK with original Russian Style front sight, AKM muzzle brake, and bayonet - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Far Cry 3 AK-103.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-103 7.62x39mm with side-mounted RIS rail & [[AK-74]] style stock, handguard, and pistol grip as seen in ''[[Far Cry 3]]'']]
[[Image:MW3 AK 47.jpg|thumb|none|500px| AK-47 with synthetic M4 style stock, pistol grip and Hand guard, AK 74 style muzzle brake, and side mounted RIS rail as seen in ''[[Modern Warfare 3]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:1romakm47gpwasr10uf1501.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Romanian WASR-10 UF with Tapco magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Bulgarian-AR-M4SF.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Arsenal AR-M4SF with red dot sight and stock folded - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:PM md. 90 Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Romanian PM md. 90 Krinkov - 7.62x39mm. Note: this differs from the US import version the [[AK-47#Romanian_AK_Draco_Carbine|Draco]] by its 3 position fire selector, folding stock as standard and darker AKM type palm-swell handguard.]]
[[File:Arsenal-ARM1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Arsenal SAR-M1 - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[File:King arms ak74 tapco folding stock aeg right.jpg|thumb|none|500px|King Arms AK74 Tapco Folding Stock - Similar to the customized AKM seen in Season 2 of ''Nikita''.]]

== The Romanian WASR-3==

Should we have a section for the WASR-3?

:Yeah, I suppose we could do that, since they've appeared in at least three movies that we know of (''[[Casino Royale]]'', ''[[Sahara (2005)|Sahara]]'', and now ''[[Hotel Rwanda]]''). I would also like to do a section for the Romanian AIM series, which appears in ''[[Street Kings]]'' and ''[[44 Minutes: The North Hollywood Shoot-out]]''.

::Well thanks to LUMPY, we now know the make and model of the mystery AKs in Casino Royale and Sahara (2005). It's an obscure FEG Hungarian AK variant that was exported to Europe during the 1980s, which is why Sasha Robey has them and We don't. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:26, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

== Get A Load of This Beast! ==

Gentlemen, I present to you, Franken-AK!

[http://www.impactguns.com/store/MGC-PW85-000407.html Franken-AK]
:I hate Franken-guns.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Ugly. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:52, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Looks like someone took the Type 84S from ''[[Hollow Point]]'' and added some wierd-looking muzzle brake and bleached the furniture. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:06, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

== AKMSU ==

The AKMSU SMG has been produced by the USSR from 1975 to 1979 ans distributed to special forces and paratroopers, but they were in many cases too hard to handle to be used effectively, so many were scrapped. In 1979 they were replaced by the AKS74U and the remaining guns were shipped to allied countries like Iraq. Very hard to find, hollywood armories usually carry foreign copys (From Zastava) or mock-ups made with parts of AKS74Us. Standard AKMSU has a forward grip and under-folding stock.

Info source please? As far as i know AKMSU was never mass-produced by USSR. It was abandoned because of obvious problems -- too short barrel that resulted in unsatisfactory bullet ballistics and quick overheating.

:The comment above stretched the page quite a bit to the right. I edited to fix that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

AKMSU 7.62 never produced in the USSR. It is not in any Soviet or Russian book about the Kalashnikov weapons. This weapon is clearly a foreign design [[User:Slow Rider|Slow Rider]] 09:22, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

It was a project for special forces, tankers and that sort of thing. It was cancelled I believe, because the authorities in question felt that the shortened barrel would degrade ballistic performance, the shortened gas system would cause heating issues and the light weight would make the recoil uncontrollable. Odd given that they approved the AKSU-74 later, but all points aside, there were Russian 7.62x39mm assault carbines back then. It just never went into production.

I beg to differ, I know Wikipedia isn't exactly a reliable source, but Russian Wikipedia has a page on the SOVIET-produced AKMSU. My Russian is still rudimentary (I'm learning), and I wouldn't trust Google Translate that much, but it pretty much says what the first post here says, except that it was produced in 1959, a whopping 20 years before the 74U! The only reason I'm trusting its existence is because I've seen the gun in the pictures there before. I'm dead certain it's never been featured in any media, but it's worth mentioning here. If anything, that unique pre-AKS-74U flash hider is very interesting. Sources: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%9A%D0%9C%D0%A1%D0%A3 http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000570/570186.jpg [[User:GreveSparf|GreveSparf]] 22:07, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

== East German AKs==
Should we have a section for the Mpi-KMS or any East German AK variants because I saw them in Hotel Rwanda and The Hurt Locker, I have no more info because I am new to this site
::Yes, but be sure they really are NVA (East German) AKs. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:37, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

== Zastava M70AB2 ==
I got the picture of the Zastava M70AB2 with standard black pistol grip, should I post it on the main page or keep it here?
[[Image:Zastava M70 AB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Zastava M70AB2 with standard pistol grip - 7.62x39mm]]

I went ahead and added it, and kept the "Mitchell Arms" version on there as well, since it shows a version that'd likely appear in American productions featuring the weapon. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Vltor Modstock? ==
[[Image:Ak47mw.2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-47 fitted with Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and a Vltor Modstock and Stock Adapter.- 7.62x39mm]]

Oh jesus christ. What they have done to that AK ?

It looks more like a typical M4 stock to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:29, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
::So what? Vltor Modstock sounds cooler.

:::I don't care what "sounds cooler". It's a regular M4 stock, '''not''' a Vltor Modstock. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:35, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Whatever you want to call it the thing looks revolting. Anyone who tries to "tacticool" an AK should be shot in the face by a true AK. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 22:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

:Homicidal much? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:22, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

anyone know what kind of muzzle brake/flash hider that is--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] 21:40, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

== AK-101, AK-102, AK-103 etc. ==

Shouldn't all "black AKs" be in the AK-74 page?
They are just AK-74M in different calibres, and they have AK-74M style muzzle brake and plastic side-folding buttstock.

== Draco Pistol ==
Should we make a section for the Romanian Draco Pistol on the AK-47 page or does it get its own article? Please tell me.
:Unless it has been seen in a film then it does not get a mention. If it is a 7.62X39mm AK pistol then yes it goes on this page. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 19:22, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

==Hungarian AK==
Isn't the Hungarian FEG AK-63 considered a gun that is not custom? It was made in Hungary, but the company that made it has gone bankrupt and is defunct now. Shouldn't the AK-63 get it's own section?

==The Cold War==
Although weapons from Warsaw pact nations were banned from importation to the US during the Cold War. Did any criminals tried smuggling them into the US?
:What would be the point? Criminals aren't gun collectors. They only want guns they can buy for criminal purposes. An AK from China shoots just a good as a real AK from Russia. I suppose Individual weapons WERE brought in during the embargo and were found at crime scenes. In California a North Korean Silenced PPS-43 was found at a drug dealer's house but that could have been a 'not amnesty' pre 68 bringback from Nam or Korea.

==Villan weapon==
While I understand the reasons for doing so, I still belive these weapons get a bad deal from Hollywood which always casts them as the "Bad Guy's Gun" even though many nations and rebel groups supported by the U.S. have also used Kalashnikovs.

I think it's because in the real world AKs are the most obtainable assault rifle. It stands to reason that most villains in films would have an AK of some sort. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:14, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

==AK 46, AK 47, AK==
Actualy correct name of the Avtomat Kalashnikova is AK (without 47). AK 46 and AK 47 was esperemental models and serial model is "Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947 year "AK". You also can see it on original NSD (I had photo but now can't find).
Also model called AK now using nowhere, except Africa maybe. This model was quickly changed by AKM, what known in USA as AK 47 7.62х39mm. Only models after AK 74 have numbers in their names.
P.S. Sorry for my terrible english, I whould explain better on esperanto or russian.

== Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater's AMD-65s ==

You forgot to make a video game entree for Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater in the AMD-65 section, the Ocelot Unit uses AMD-65/63 in the game.

== AK-101 and AK-103 ==

Shouldn't they be moved to AK-74 article? They are AK-74M chambered for different rounds.
As far I'm moving AK-101 hence it is practically the same as AK-74 --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] 19:42, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
::No, all 5.56x45mm AK variants are on this page along with the original 7.62x39mm. All 5.45x39mm AK variants are on the AK74 page. Do NOT change it. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:58, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Franken-AK ==
Stumbled across this monstrosity while surfing the other day. Only thing I can think to say is...WTF??? --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 21:47, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
::That's not an AK, but a SAIGA (with a probably Photoshop Job) mpm

look fake

[[Image:WTF1.JPG]]

:- Well, MPM would know photoshop jobs. :b Lol, that's is the most fucked up shit I've seen in a while. Bah! [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:17, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

:::That's only slightly 'shopped. I'll post the original. -protoAuthor 21:35, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:K178977 k79867 saiga.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The original]]

== Question about AK actions ==

I was wondering, when firing an AK-series rifle, does the bolt lock back in the open position after the last round as with [[M16 rifle series|M16-series]] rifles, or does it come back closed again? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:24, 6 March 2011 (MSK)
: Normally, NO! But the Yugoslav models had a modified bolt that when used with a Yugoslav magazine with a modified follower, would lock the bolt open on the last round. BUT, when the magazine was removed, the bolt closed anyway. The bolt would not lock back if another magazine type was used. Sometimes a notch was cut into the selector to hold the bolt back but this only worked when the selector was set to safe after you pulled the bolt back. ''Wraith''

== What AK is this? ==

I'm currently doing some recapping for a big edit of the [[Ultimate Force]] page and came across this gun:
[[File:Vlcsnap-2011-03-30-16h26m46s158.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
As far as I can tell, it has a stamped upper and lower receiver, folding stock, ported gas tube, slanted muzzle and open front sights. I can't find a variant on this page that fits, so is this a franken-gun, or something not listed here? Also ,the gun does actually fire blanks so it isn't an airsoft gun or replica. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:34, 30 March 2011 (CDT)

Looks like a AKMS ([http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/AK-47#AKMS]). You would have to look at receiver markings to get a more detailed description. ''Wraith''

:It's an AKMS, but yeah, it has a ported gas tube and smooth front hand guard (which are features found on the AKS-47). I would say it's an AKMS with AKS-47 parts. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:31, 31 March 2011 (CDT)

::We recently discovered a Hungarian AKM that has the AK47/Type 56 style gas tube. It's a FEG variant that was only exported to Europe and not the U.S> during the 1980s which explains why British armorers have it and American ones do not. Check out ([http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/AK-47#FEG NGM-81]). Note that nearly everyone removed the ugly factory PKM flash hider and replaced it with something more conventional. The underfolder version of this gun was called the NGV-81. :) Since the NGM-81 was built in 5.56mm only, I will investigate further if the Hungarians built any other AKS from this particular lineage, chambered in 7.62x39mm. IF so then we're in business. I will let everyone know if I find something. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:30, 1 September 2011 (CDT)
:::Thanks, did a bit of looking at other FEG variants, and it seems a pretty close match for the under-folding variant of the SA-85. Only difference I can see is the different colour hand-guards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:53, 1 September 2011 (CDT)
:::[[File:FEG SA-85.jpg|thumb|500px|none|FEG SA-85 - 7.62x39mm]]
I know this might be slightly off-topic, but the guy in that shot looks like he's wearing German flecktarn camo used by the Bundeswehr. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:35, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

Could be an AKS47 with an AKM muzzle break (is that what they're called?) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
: If it was originally an AKS it would have a milled rather than stamped receiver. Also, the front sight is of the AKM type. I agree with MT2008 that it is an AKM with some parts changed. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:00, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::It certainly looks to have been cannibalised from several; by the looks of things, the gas tube is from a different gun to the lower handguard, for a start (check out how the top and bottom of the handguard aren't anywhere near the same colour or level of wear). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:08, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Too me, it's just a AKMS with some parts (gas tube, lower handguard) from a AK-47. AK parts are mixed and matched a lot. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::::I think that statement is incorrect on the AK-47 versus AKM, if that is what you are talking about. not sure what you meant, but different AK-47 parts are interchangeable with other AK-47 guns and different AKM parts are interchangeable with other AKM guns, but the AKM Parts are NOT easily interchangeable with the AK-47. Though it can happen and has, it's a hassle. If you use the AK-47/Type 56 style gas tube with the gas relief holes in it, you CANNOT use the AKM gas block (which has the gas relief holes in it's tube ring). You have to use the solid AK-47/Type 56 style gas block in order for the gun to cycle. Also the gas tube of the AK-47 doesn't fit the AKM (unless a gunsmiths does a lot of modifying). I know, I've tried and without changing, milling, grinding or welding the items, they just don't fit into each other at all. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:01, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Okay, I see. Thank you for the brain nourishment. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:34, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

==Question about AK Part==

I was wondering, what's the thin metal tube that runs ''underneath'' the barrel of AK-series rifles called? I know it's not part of the gas system, as that's on top and the weapon still seems to be able to operate without it. Any help figuring this out would be appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:58, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

:That's the cleaning rod. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:23, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

== What do you guys think? ==

Last week, I was watching a Youtube video of a German WWII re-enactor firing an STG-44. I decided to post a comment: "The AK's Grandfather", and got multiple thumbs up (not really important, except for what happened later). What happend was I got some comments some saying things along the lines of:

1. You should have wrote AK's FATHER since there was no inbetween model.

2. Kalashnikov didn't look at the STG at ALL when designing the AK.

And then I got this: "@1Morey The MP44 most know by CoD fags as STG 44 was a good weapon, the problem is that it reached the warfare in 1945 basicly in the end of the war, so it was a failure, and the russians made the Ak years after. The Ak 47 was a failure too, it was just for military and it was on function only 1 year, then they made the Akm 47 wich alot of cod fags confuses it with the Ak 47. Please, seriously, do some research, Sorry for my bad english, p.s: I dont think you know too much about guns." - quoted by Andre232323232332323.

What do you guys think. It really seems to contradict everything I have read about the AK, and as far as I know, there is no such thing as the "AKM-47", I have heard of AK-47 and AKM, but not a AKM-47. I'm guessing this youtuber is whacked. I just want to know what you think. - [[User:1morey]] December 3, 2011 10:28 PM (EST)

Just an idiot who over uses the word "Codfag" and thinks he knows alot about firearms---P226 22:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

: 1) AKM-47 is a crazy fantasy. 2) STG-44 is not a grandfather of AK. For example they has different system of locking bolts, besides STG-44 has a different way disassembly - it folded like a shotgun. Wikipedia says: "The AK-47 is best described as a hybrid of previous rifle technology innovations: the trigger, double locking lugs and unlocking raceway of the M1 Garand/M1 carbine, the safety mechanism of the John Browning designed Remington Model 8 rifle, and the gas system and layout of the Sturmgewehr 44. Kalashnikov's team had access to all of these weapons and had no need to "reinvent the wheel", though he denied that his design was based on the German Sturmgewehr 44 assault rifle.Kalashnikov himself observed: "A lot of [Soviet Army soldiers] ask me how one can become a constructor, and how new weaponry is designed. These are very difficult questions. Each designer seems to have his own paths, his own successes and failures. But one thing is clear: before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good appreciation of everything that already exists in this field. I myself have had many experiences confirming this to be so" --[[User:Flexo|Flexo]] 04:39, 24 January 2012 (CST)

== What AK is this? Part2 ==

What model of AK do this?
[[File:Equip armspic16.jpg|thumb|600px|none]]
This AK is something that appeared in the [[Ghost Squad]].
[[File:Jpn airsoft AKU.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Tokyo Marui's airsoft "AK47 β-Spetsnaz"]]
I think the Japanese airsoft Perhaps this good?--[[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] 14:05, 24 January 2012 (JST)

==Need help on an ID==
I'm finishing ''[[Beyond Borders]]'' right now, and I'm stuck on an ID. The Khmer Rouge in the film have these AKs with milled receivers, but with the hooded front sight. It does fire once in the film. It could've been CGI, but I think I saw an ejecting shell as well. The scene was filmed in Thailand. Any ideas? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:53, 31 January 2012 (CST)
:Does it have a pig sticker bayonet, or the bracket for one, as the original [[Type 56]] had a [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/assault/as49/type56old.jpg milled receiver]. It could still be a Type 56 even without the bayonet, but having it would be pretty definitive. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:15, 31 January 2012 (CST)
::Alas, no bayonet, but it looks like it may have the bracket. Thanks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:20, 31 January 2012 (CST)
:::Does it have a forward facing "L" shaped bit of metal under the front sight block, as this is the bracket that would remain. Do you have a screenshot? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:32, 31 January 2012 (CST)
[[File:BeyondB_T56_SKS_01.jpg|thumb||none|600px|This shot shows the milled receiver and the hooded front sight.]]
Yeah, they are early Type 56s. The bayonet is removed but bracket is still there. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:43, 31 January 2012 (CST)

They also have hooded front sights, indicative features of the Type 56. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:24, 27 February 2012 (CST)

Talk:Resident Evil 6

2012-02-17T16:24:32Z

Anarchy66660: /* Timeline Inconsistency */

Is this for real? Because the bumf we've got here sounds like a bad fanfic. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:47, 20 January 2012 (CST)

:For reals. http://worthplaying.com/article/2012/1/19/news/84815/ --[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 13:05, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Are we okay with copying and pasting Capcom's press release? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

:Why would we need to do that? The trailer's legit and we're identifying the firearms. That's pretty much where IMFDB's job ends. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:09, 20 January 2012 (CST)
::I meant the paragraph that's already there. ("Blending action and survival horror, Resident Evil 6 is the most ambitious, immersive..." ). [http://thecontrolleronline.com/2012/01/capcom-confirms-resident-evil-6/] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 16:25, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== unknown pistol ==

Could it be a hybrid of a Springfield handgun and a Glock?[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 14:13, 20 January 2012 (CST)

It looks like a Steyr M9 to me. I don't see the Springfield's resemblance here.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Smith & Wesson Sigma? --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 16:14, 21 January 2012 (CST)

I say it's either Smith & Wesson Sigma or M&P --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 20:23, 6 February 2012 (PT)

Here's a [http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4373/helensliderear.jpg screencap] of the slide rear. Definitely not a Steyr M9. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 03:29, 8 February 2012 (CST)

It looks like a H&K USP to me. gonna have to wait till the game is released.

:No way it's the USP. Although between this weapon and Leon's handgun, I'm starting to wonder if these aren't placeholder weapons - like the Hybrid Assault Rifle that turned into the SIG556 and the 1911 w/compensator that turned into the 92FS in RE5. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 14:30, 14 February 2012 (CST)

== unkwnon Rifle ==

[[File:Re6ar2.jpg]]

in my humble opinion is an ACR rifle iron sight with an unknown, similar to m4a1 / G36, the stock is identical to the ACR and the MAGAZINE appears to be 5.56.

[[File:Bushmasteracrentry.jpg|thumb|400px]]

comparative picture

[[File:Acrsogsl.jpg|400px]]

Look: The pistol does not seem to be a sig p226?

Link:[http://criticorevoltado.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/acrsogsl.jpg]

:Stock, yes. Everything else, no. And it's a magazine, not a clip. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:25, 21 January 2012 (CST)

:: Looks like a composite rifle. Front end looks like a micro-Galil, stock from ACR or Scar, cocking lever from FAMAS, rails from G36C. That cocking lever is kind of a sore point as it rules out a lot of guns no matter how much they customised it. Remember the AR in resident evil 5 was also a fictional composite rifle in previews until they changed it to a SIG556. --[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 17:35, 21 January 2012 (CST)
::: the charging handle looks a bit SPAS-15? but this gun sure as hell ain't a shotgun though, as seen in the trailer[[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)
:::: The stock is definitely an ACR's, and the receiver looks kind of like a mashup, but in the first picture, I think it most closely resembles an ACR's.

It was RE5 actually and it could be subjected to change, but the game comes out this year on November, so who knows. This isn't like an early teaser trailer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:30, 21 January 2012 (CST)
:why mention RE5...? [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)

::

I would like to ACR and with a grenade launcher, I'm sick of the same weapons in racoon city operation to weapons like the M416 and they put Scar, was nonsense of course but it was far more options, they could put a FABARM FP6 and an SR-25 would be balanced and different compared to previous ones. (Sorry if it was not clear, I am Brazilian and I speak little English).
:I think you should write to capcom or whichever studio develop the game to address this... [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)

Fabarm Fp6 :D
[[File:Fabarm Sdass tactical -1-.jpg]]
SR-25
[[File:SR25.jpg]]

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 15 February 2012, 13:00, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"An interesting hybrid weapon, in this case an Assault Rifle:
the Folding/Retractable Stock, with that Adjustable Cheek Riser, clearly resembles to the one from the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR/Remington ACR; the Carrying Handle could be inspired to the one of the GIAT FAMAS and/or Benelli/Franchi Spas-15, besides those of the overused AR15/M16/M4 family but, in this case, as a High-Profile, enlarged and evolved one; the Cocking Handle should also be taken from a FAMAS; the Upper Receiver, the Handguard and the Short Barrel suggest me a Benelli/Franchi Spas-15 resemblance too; the Magazine looks like a 30-Round PMag, but not sure of that, perhaps in-game it will be a 40-Round Magazine for standard as for the SIG556 from RE5... .
Can't wait to play the game in November and see the final release differences, if they're going to appear... ."

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 16 February 2012, 20:20, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"The Carrying Handle also makes me think of a Hensoldt/Hk G36 Carrying Handle with 3x Sight."

==VP-70==
I doubt Leon's pistol is a bona fide HK VP-70. [http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8394/leonpistolleft.jpg Screenshot of left side] The cut of the slide front, plus what seems to be some sort of accessory groove look a lot like a PX4 or a P99. No matter what it is, however - those cuts are completely uncharacteristic of a VP-70, which is somewhat rounded. [http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2844/leontrigger.jpg Trigger area screenshot] there's a trigger pivot pin missing on the VP-70, a conspicuous disassembly catch (which the VP-70 has) and diagonal cocking serrations, which the VP lacks. It's probably another Capcom hybrid gun. Sorry about crappy screenshot resolution, by the way.
--[[User:John 234|John 234]] 03:29, 8 February 2012 (CST)

Think they gave Leon the new PPQ? Which depending on where this game takes place in the RE series could be badly anachronistic (not that they care, look at ORC) --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 04:10, 8 February 2012 (CST)
:It's after RE5.-protoAuthor 18:35, 14 February 2012 (CST)

Grip texture looks different, plus it looks like there's no front cocking serrations. I wish Capcom didn't do so many bizarre hybrid concept designs. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 16:15, 10 February 2012 (CST)

:I think the Trigger screenshot is not leon's gun.-protoAuthor 18:35, 14 February 2012 (CST)

I thought it would be a good idea of posting [http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120121022314/residentevil/images/0/02/Dual_Weild.png this picture] here rather than on the front page. Sorry for the bad quality. As you can see, Leon appears to be dual weilding what looks like his VP-70 but I can't be sure about the pistol in his left hand (right side of the screen). --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 21:53, 15 February 2012 (CST)

I've never understood Capcom's fascination with giving Leon the VP70. When RE2 came out it may have made a little sense as the VP70 had been out of production for less than a decade but was still probably in gun shop circulation. But here we are, the game timeline is now entering 2013 (assumed until the game is released or a trailer explicitly reveals a date) and they are still giving him the VP70 (maybe, maybe not)??? RE4 takes place in 2004, six years after the events of Raccoon. Leon is just starting his Secret Service career and even on his first assignment he has a customized 9mm (the Silver Ghost). Now he's a top-tier agent and still might be using a pistol that hasn't been produced in almost a quarter of a century? Come on....anyways, rant over. Not a lot went right tonight and I've had a bit to drink. Still looking forward to this game a ton, even if the weapons arrangements have me perplexed. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 04:23, 17 February 2012 (CST)

== H&K UMP9 ==

[[File:Hk ump9.jpg]]

[[File:Re6mp5.jpg]]

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 15 February 2012, 13:10, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"As you can see from the name of the second image, it could be a Custom MP5, since the 30-Round Magazine shown in the picture looks for that weapon... Anyway, they're both very good SMGs, moreover they're both Heckler und Koch weapons!"

The overall shape of the receiver is more like a UMP than an MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:10, 15 February 2012 (CST)

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 16 February 2012, 20:10, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"Now that I think about it, Excalibur01 is right: the overall shape of the Receiver highly resembles the one of the UMP Platform, with an indistinct Mag Well and an as much indistinct MP5 Magazine (is it a 15- or a 30-Round one?), I say a 30-Round one..."

== Timeline Inconsistency ==
Not really a discussion on the guns but does anyone else notice the timeline issue with RE6? I mean RE5 took place in 2009 and the opening for RE6's trailer says 10 years after Raccoon City, which would make it 2008. And I find it hard to imagine that this game is intended as a prequel to 5. Since these seem to be pretty catastrophic world events which I find it hard to fail to mention in RE5's timeline histories. --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 23:57, 15 February 2012 (PT)

According to the newest Game Informer, which is usually pretty reliable, the game takes place after RE5 as the details release to GI by Capcom mention Wesker's death and a couple of other specifics. I'm going with that it's set after RE5. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:04, 16 February 2012 (CST)

I figured as much but that opening bit did throw me off. Somewhere in the back of my head Capcom was thinking 2018 but added up the years wrong. --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 01:39, 16 February 2012 (PT)

According to the Resident Evil Wikia, the game takes place in 2013. But you are right, the Capcom official description does state that this game takes place ten years after Raccoon's fall.--[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 18:35, 16 February 2012 (CST)

This game take place Ten years after whats i think is called the Raccoon City trials which is when the fall of Umbrella happened--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] 10:06, 17 February 2012 (CST)

Talk:Resident Evil 6

2012-02-17T16:06:04Z

Anarchy66660: /* Timeline Inconsistency */

Is this for real? Because the bumf we've got here sounds like a bad fanfic. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:47, 20 January 2012 (CST)

:For reals. http://worthplaying.com/article/2012/1/19/news/84815/ --[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 13:05, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Are we okay with copying and pasting Capcom's press release? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

:Why would we need to do that? The trailer's legit and we're identifying the firearms. That's pretty much where IMFDB's job ends. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:09, 20 January 2012 (CST)
::I meant the paragraph that's already there. ("Blending action and survival horror, Resident Evil 6 is the most ambitious, immersive..." ). [http://thecontrolleronline.com/2012/01/capcom-confirms-resident-evil-6/] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 16:25, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== unknown pistol ==

Could it be a hybrid of a Springfield handgun and a Glock?[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 14:13, 20 January 2012 (CST)

It looks like a Steyr M9 to me. I don't see the Springfield's resemblance here.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Smith & Wesson Sigma? --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 16:14, 21 January 2012 (CST)

I say it's either Smith & Wesson Sigma or M&P --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 20:23, 6 February 2012 (PT)

Here's a [http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4373/helensliderear.jpg screencap] of the slide rear. Definitely not a Steyr M9. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 03:29, 8 February 2012 (CST)

It looks like a H&K USP to me. gonna have to wait till the game is released.

:No way it's the USP. Although between this weapon and Leon's handgun, I'm starting to wonder if these aren't placeholder weapons - like the Hybrid Assault Rifle that turned into the SIG556 and the 1911 w/compensator that turned into the 92FS in RE5. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 14:30, 14 February 2012 (CST)

== unkwnon Rifle ==

[[File:Re6ar2.jpg]]

in my humble opinion is an ACR rifle iron sight with an unknown, similar to m4a1 / G36, the stock is identical to the ACR and the MAGAZINE appears to be 5.56.

[[File:Bushmasteracrentry.jpg|thumb|400px]]

comparative picture

[[File:Acrsogsl.jpg|400px]]

Look: The pistol does not seem to be a sig p226?

Link:[http://criticorevoltado.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/acrsogsl.jpg]

:Stock, yes. Everything else, no. And it's a magazine, not a clip. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:25, 21 January 2012 (CST)

:: Looks like a composite rifle. Front end looks like a micro-Galil, stock from ACR or Scar, cocking lever from FAMAS, rails from G36C. That cocking lever is kind of a sore point as it rules out a lot of guns no matter how much they customised it. Remember the AR in resident evil 5 was also a fictional composite rifle in previews until they changed it to a SIG556. --[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 17:35, 21 January 2012 (CST)
::: the charging handle looks a bit SPAS-15? but this gun sure as hell ain't a shotgun though, as seen in the trailer[[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)
:::: The stock is definitely an ACR's, and the receiver looks kind of like a mashup, but in the first picture, I think it most closely resembles an ACR's.

It was RE5 actually and it could be subjected to change, but the game comes out this year on November, so who knows. This isn't like an early teaser trailer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:30, 21 January 2012 (CST)
:why mention RE5...? [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)

::

I would like to ACR and with a grenade launcher, I'm sick of the same weapons in racoon city operation to weapons like the M416 and they put Scar, was nonsense of course but it was far more options, they could put a FABARM FP6 and an SR-25 would be balanced and different compared to previous ones. (Sorry if it was not clear, I am Brazilian and I speak little English).
:I think you should write to capcom or whichever studio develop the game to address this... [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 23:37, 30 January 2012 (CST)

Fabarm Fp6 :D
[[File:Fabarm Sdass tactical -1-.jpg]]
SR-25
[[File:SR25.jpg]]

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 15 February 2012, 13:00, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"An interesting hybrid weapon, in this case an Assault Rifle:
the Folding/Retractable Stock, with that Adjustable Cheek Riser, clearly resembles to the one from the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR/Remington ACR; the Carrying Handle could be inspired to the one of the GIAT FAMAS and/or Benelli/Franchi Spas-15, besides those of the overused AR15/M16/M4 family but, in this case, as a High-Profile, enlarged and evolved one; the Cocking Handle should also be taken from a FAMAS; the Upper Receiver, the Handguard and the Short Barrel suggest me a Benelli/Franchi Spas-15 resemblance too; the Magazine looks like a 30-Round PMag, but not sure of that, perhaps in-game it will be a 40-Round Magazine for standard as for the SIG556 from RE5... .
Can't wait to play the game in November and see the final release differences, if they're going to appear... ."

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 16 February 2012, 20:20, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"The Carrying Handle also makes me think of a Hensoldt/Hk G36 Carrying Handle with 3x Sight."

==VP-70==
I doubt Leon's pistol is a bona fide HK VP-70. [http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8394/leonpistolleft.jpg Screenshot of left side] The cut of the slide front, plus what seems to be some sort of accessory groove look a lot like a PX4 or a P99. No matter what it is, however - those cuts are completely uncharacteristic of a VP-70, which is somewhat rounded. [http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2844/leontrigger.jpg Trigger area screenshot] there's a trigger pivot pin missing on the VP-70, a conspicuous disassembly catch (which the VP-70 has) and diagonal cocking serrations, which the VP lacks. It's probably another Capcom hybrid gun. Sorry about crappy screenshot resolution, by the way.
--[[User:John 234|John 234]] 03:29, 8 February 2012 (CST)

Think they gave Leon the new PPQ? Which depending on where this game takes place in the RE series could be badly anachronistic (not that they care, look at ORC) --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 04:10, 8 February 2012 (CST)
:It's after RE5.-protoAuthor 18:35, 14 February 2012 (CST)

Grip texture looks different, plus it looks like there's no front cocking serrations. I wish Capcom didn't do so many bizarre hybrid concept designs. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 16:15, 10 February 2012 (CST)

:I think the Trigger screenshot is not leon's gun.-protoAuthor 18:35, 14 February 2012 (CST)

I thought it would be a good idea of posting [http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120121022314/residentevil/images/0/02/Dual_Weild.png this picture] here rather than on the front page. Sorry for the bad quality. As you can see, Leon appears to be dual weilding what looks like his VP-70 but I can't be sure about the pistol in his left hand (right side of the screen). --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 21:53, 15 February 2012 (CST)

I've never understood Capcom's fascination with giving Leon the VP70. When RE2 came out it may have made a little sense as the VP70 had been out of production for less than a decade but was still probably in gun shop circulation. But here we are, the game timeline is now entering 2013 (assumed until the game is released or a trailer explicitly reveals a date) and they are still giving him the VP70 (maybe, maybe not)??? RE4 takes place in 2004, six years after the events of Raccoon. Leon is just starting his Secret Service career and even on his first assignment he has a customized 9mm (the Silver Ghost). Now he's a top-tier agent and still might be using a pistol that hasn't been produced in almost a quarter of a century? Come on....anyways, rant over. Not a lot went right tonight and I've had a bit to drink. Still looking forward to this game a ton, even if the weapons arrangements have me perplexed. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 04:23, 17 February 2012 (CST)

== H&K UMP9 ==

[[File:Hk ump9.jpg]]

[[File:Re6mp5.jpg]]

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 15 February 2012, 13:10, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"As you can see from the name of the second image, it could be a Custom MP5, since the 30-Round Magazine shown in the picture looks for that weapon... Anyway, they're both very good SMGs, moreover they're both Heckler und Koch weapons!"

The overall shape of the receiver is more like a UMP than an MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:10, 15 February 2012 (CST)

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 16 February 2012, 20:10, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"Now that I think about it, Excalibur01 is right: the overall shape of the Receiver highly resembles the one of the UMP Platform, with an indistinct Mag Well and an as much indistinct MP5 Magazine (is it a 15- or a 30-Round one?), I say a 30-Round one..."

== Timeline Inconsistency ==
Not really a discussion on the guns but does anyone else notice the timeline issue with RE6? I mean RE5 took place in 2009 and the opening for RE6's trailer says 10 years after Raccoon City, which would make it 2008. And I find it hard to imagine that this game is intended as a prequel to 5. Since these seem to be pretty catastrophic world events which I find it hard to fail to mention in RE5's timeline histories. --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 23:57, 15 February 2012 (PT)

According to the newest Game Informer, which is usually pretty reliable, the game takes place after RE5 as the details release to GI by Capcom mention Wesker's death and a couple of other specifics. I'm going with that it's set after RE5. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:04, 16 February 2012 (CST)

I figured as much but that opening bit did throw me off. Somewhere in the back of my head Capcom was thinking 2018 but added up the years wrong. --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 01:39, 16 February 2012 (PT)

According to the Resident Evil Wikia, the game takes place in 2013. But you are right, the Capcom official description does state that this game takes place ten years after Raccoon's fall.--[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 18:35, 16 February 2012 (CST)

This game take place after whats i think is called the Raccoon City trials which is when the fall of Umbrella happened--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] 10:06, 17 February 2012 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-10-19T06:52:37Z

Anarchy66660:

== All weapons in BF3 ==

The list below shows all BF3 weapons that are going to be available either SP or MP.

This list is officially announced by EA, but i'm pretty sure there will be more coming.

NOTE: List has been edited to account for new information (eg: Both M16s and only P90TR) and name corrections (eg: DAO-12 to Striker)

Assault Rifles (Assault)
*M16A3 (US)
*AK-74M (RU)
*HK416
*G3A3
*AN-94
*KH2002
*AEK-971
*F2000
*AS VAL
*M16A4

Carbines (Engineer)
*M4A1 (US)
*AKS-74U (RU)
*G36C
*SCAR-H CQC
*A-91
*SG553
*M4

Machine Guns (Support)
*M27 IAR (US)
*RPK-74M (RU)
*M249E2
*M60
*M240
*6P41
*QYJ 88

Sniper Rifles (Recon)
*Mk.11 Mod.0 (US)
*SVD (RU)
*M40A5
*SV98
*M98B
*M82A3 (not in MP)

Battle Rifles (Recon)
*M39 EMR
*SKS

Sub-Machine Guns (All Kit)
*P90TR
*MP7A1
*UMP45
*PDR
*PP2000

Shotguns (All Kit)
*870 MCS
*M1014
*USAS-12
*Saiga 20K
*Striker

Pistols (All Kit)
*M9 (US)
*MP443 (RU)
*G17
*M-45
*MP412
*T44
*93R
*G18

Underbarrels (Assault)
*M320 with HE/Smoke/Buckshot rounds
*M26 MASS with Buckshot/Flechette/Frag/Slug rounds

Rocket Launchers (Engineer)
*Mk.153 SMAW (US)
*RPG-7 (RU)
*FGM-148 Javelin
*FIM-92 Stinger
*SA-18 IGLA
*AT4

( Source: http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/complete-list-of-battlefield-3-weapons/ ) --Zzang1847 23.09.2011 11.07 (PST)

:This is from a Batlefield 3 fansite and not acctualy offical --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 14:38, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::This has been discussed before. While it is technically official since the official gaming news sources are also reporting it, but since there aren't any pictures of 'em you have to wait.--[[User:Nomad175|Nomad175]] 15:55, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

:Pages without pictures or info look ugly. The game's out in less than a month, and the Beta's out in a few days, we can wait, but it does mean we get to know what's in the game anyway, even though it's not on the page :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:20, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::Although there were no pictures, i believe we still can at least put some description and real picture so someone who is actually uploading in-game pictures don't have to worry about putting explanation and finding pictures from the archive, which takes significant amount of time (in terms of AAA games like this).
::P.S) Sorry about this discussion already mentioned before. I thought i could give some help, but perhaps i'm not :( ~ Zzang1847 23.09.2011 8.43 (PST)

:::Building an article is not a race, there is just less than a week for the Beta to roll in, not that much to wait. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:52, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

Looks like it is going to just be Americans, Russians, Generic "Not the Taliban, honest" Middle Eastern Militia and possibly the Iranian army as factions then. Damn. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:28, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

:For SP yeah, but for MP it's been confirmed to be just US and RU. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:46, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

== Faction Specific Weaponry details ==
no need to worry , about faction specific weaponry , reading through some of Alan Kertz earlier posts.He states that the player once leveled up high enough in the class's levels will gain access to the other factions weaponry.

== Gun disparity ==

I have the feeling the M4A1 will be the counterpart to the AKS74U. This is wrong, but every game seems to do it. The M4 has a 14.5 inch barrel and is a standard issue weapon. The AKS74U has an 8.3 inch barrel and is issued to vehicle crews. A better setup would be Mk 18 Mod O (or HK416 D10RS) vs the AKS74U. Also, the M16 and AK74 aren't exactly equal either. Maybe pair up the regular M4A1 or SCAR-L with 14.5 inch barrel (for variety) with the AK74?

Oh and what do you think the US/EU counterparts to the SKS, RPK and AS Val will be? There's no US counterpart cartridge to the 7.62x39 and 9x39 as far as I know.
::There's no val, that's vss

:SKS = Mk.11 = SVD. RPK = M27. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:52, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Its the asval not vss :S.[[User:lukewilliams010]] 12:14 ,19 august 2011

== PKM\PKP operation ==

I've yet to see a game that properly portraits PKM operation with its 2 level feeding system and non-disintegrating belts. Curious if in BF3 they'll get it right. Doubt it though...

== Optic mounts ==

Optic mounts on all russian weapons are wrong. Basically it's an PSO with optic tube cut off and rail slapped instead of it. Then every Russian scope has its original mount removed so it can be fixed on that picatinny rail. They also didn't bother making [http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/photoshooter/1789/i-2863.jpg proper mount] for PKP and just put rail on top of the receiver lid. I was expecting more attention to details in BF3.

Well the Russian army IS starting to use RIS, just look at the AK-9. [http://world.guns.ru/assault/rus/ak-9-e.html] While it does seem a bit sloppy, it can be justified in a way. At least it isn't as bad as that AK-abomination from MW2 and the RPD with rails.

== Beta ==

Does anyone know when the beta is starting? cant wait for it! --[[Special:Contributions/109.78.246.33|109.78.246.33]] 21:34, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Or for that matter, how we can get in on it? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]]

To get into the Battlefield 3 beta, you need to buy specially-marked versions of the recent Medal Of Honor [[User:SeanWolf]]

Ya i got it, do you know when were getting the codes?--[[User:GunGunGun|GunGunGun]] 02:40, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I have no clue.[[User:SeanWolf]]

If you registered your Medal of Honor with your EA-Account, you'll get the invitation and infos, as soon as there is something, so far nothing is known.

Wish I could try the beta [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:15, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

:Not just you, after the videos they releases pretty much everybody is dying to get hands on the game. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 12:05, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Beta will be open to everyone. Those who got MoH, will get in earlier.

== AK-something-something ==

Check that dude in the BG. also what I think *might* be a holster, but I'm probably wrong.

http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf6.jpg

:It's definitely an AK-series rifle, which one I can't be sure of. If I had to guess however, I'd say either an AK-74, AK-74M, or AK-101. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 08:15, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

:It's a dump bag on his hip. At least that's what I think it is. It definitely isn't a holster though, since most drop leg holsters are strapped to your thigh. Why a guy with a belt fed machine gun has a dump bag through is beyond me.--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 09:19, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::If I had to guess, he may have been issued an M4 or M16 and picked up the MG prior to the pic being taken. You can also see some STANAG mag pouches on the front of his vest too. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

:::I Agree with Orca1, I know you can't see from the distance, but the profile of the muzzle looks like one of those 3. As the game is set in 2014, im assuming it's either an AK-74M or AK-101. --[[User:Chablar|Chablar]] 13:45, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

== M240G is M240B ==

The M240G is actually a M240B as seen by gameplay screenshots. You can also identify it's M240B by the heat shield. I guess that inaccuracy in every war game (including new games) will always be. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:44, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

:I knew it was some kind of M240 variant, but since it was being used by a Marine I assumed it was the 240-Golf variant since they typically use that instead of the 240-Bravo. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:26, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Wrong use of the word "anachronistic" there. An anachronism is an object, event, or person portrayed in a chronologically inaccurate time period. The Marines using the M240B is a mistake, no doubt, but it's not an anachronism as the M240B still does technically ''exist'' at the same time beside the Golf model. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

== M16A4? ==

Got these pics off BF3 nation;
http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf1.jpg appears to be some M16 varient which oddly enough doesnt have any rear sights.
http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf5.jpg Another shot of the M16 like weapon (Just going to mention the nice detail on the mag). And hey, new weapon, A COFFEE MUG!!!
--[[User:GunGunGun|GunGunGun]] 15:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

It is an M16A4, the developers probably didn't detailed the weapon enough. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 16:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

:Yeah I noticed this as well. Im guessing they just forgot, The sights are even not there in the gameplay videos. I do hope they change it though, might seen a little silly firing with neither iron sights or optics. --[[User:Chablar|Chablar]] 13:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

in the new 12 min trailer, roughly at the 7min mark when they put surpessive fire on the sniper, is it me or does the guy on the left, with the M16A4 fire full auto?. [[User:Sike|Sike]] 17:20, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

I'm commenting without checking, but remember how fast you can fire the M16A4 and 93R in BC2? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:23, 19 April 2011 (CDT)

== Racking charging handle when reloading after empty ==

A new trailer showed you shooting an M4 and when you are empty, you reload but instead of pressing the bolt release, you charge the handle. I seriously hope this isn't the default reload [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

At the begining of the trailer, it did say that it was pre-alpha code. They'll hopefully have the modeling and other animations fixed by then.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 05:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, cause I'm getting bad flashbacks to games in early 2000 that pulls the charging handle when doing mid mag reloads [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:31, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the M16A2 & M4A1 reloading animations from ''[[Battlefield 2|BF2]]'' had the character use the charging handle instead of the bolt release when reloading, they may have borrowed that. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:58, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

:3D modeling and animation is kinda hard to "borrow" from older engine/file format. I'd guess it's probably "director thinks this looks more dynamic" like [[Black]], or maybe the animator is under heavy influence of games in early 2000 :/ [[User:Ssate|Ssate]] 02:43, 12 April 2011 (CDT)

Well I hope they change it to using bolt release because it's wield for someone to do that unless you're clearing a malfunction [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm liking how they now keep track of a round in the chamber and you don't go through the whole reloading animation, maybe this time we'll have proper pistol reloads.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

What's a "proper" pistol reload? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:21, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
: I think he meant that the slide does not lock back when the pistol runs out, like in Medal Of Honor MP. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 20:43, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Also in Bad Company and the second one they did the same thing where the slide didn't lock back. If it's one thing Modern Warfare has done right is the reload animation...well except maybe for the ACR. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:14, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
:There was also a problem with the SPAS-12: the character pump it after the reload even if there was a shell in the chamber. Same in Black Ops. Not to mention that "all pistols were DAO" since the hammers never move. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

About reloads, in last years Metal of Honor, you do a combat reload when your shotgun is empty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:15, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Another nice touch that they put in was that they left the front sight on the M4 even though it has an optical sight. In most games the front sight is either removed completely (like Bad Company 2 or Call of Duty 4) or else it has a flip down front sight (like Modern Warfare 2). Adds a nice level of realism in my opinion.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:29, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

:I always thought removing the front sight from M4/M16 rifles in games was utterly stupid mall ninja BS, not to mention making the gun look ugly as sin. In a real-world situation, if your optic fails and you don't have any iron sights to fall back on, you're basically SOL while the other guy who's never even heard of a red dot sight is still capable of sending rounds your way. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:48, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

::Don't some optics already mount back-up irons (BUS / BUIS) on them? [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:46, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

:Yeah I noticed this too. All BF games seem to get reloads completely wrong. You get the feeling the make you rack the charging handle with a mid mag reload to clear the current round so they don't have to take it into account. As awesome as charging the action yourself, or racking the top slide looks, you just never do it during a normal reload. I do hope they change this yeah, but I doubt they will looking back at the other games. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Battlefield games, but I don't see how its that hard to get weapons right when they hire Ex-military guys to get everything else right. You can even find these things on Google these days. And with COD removing the iron sights on the M16s and M4s they are also removing the gas block. The gun would have to fire one round and then the action be charged manually. I love these games, but some times the ignorance they show towards the things they claim are most important pisses me off a bit.--[[User:Chablar|Chablar]] 14:00, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

::Well, at least they don't go the extra mile and have guns being fired with the safety on, I can think of a couple of games that do that. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 14:08, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

:The use of military and ex-military people are for realistic look of the soldiers, their movements, they communications, and look of ground vehicles and aircraft... But don't forget that it is not that hard to search for photos in the internet of weapons, vehicles, aircraft, uniforms, equipment, etc. and create it in the computer, without using the help of the military guys. As what we see know. BF3 goes for the realistic way, that's right, but it is not realistic in the small details. CoD4:MW, CoD:MW2, CoD:BO, the new MoH, OFP series, ArmA series, and of course the series of BF from BF2 and onwards have so many unrealistic small details that can be fixed easily by using mod tools. The developers doesn't really care if the M4A1 has gas block (CoD) or if you charge the weapon with the charging handle (BF2, BF3), they just want to create a game, realistic or not just the gamers will be happy. It is a bit funny as so many things are so realistic in this game but someone who has good military knowledge will notice right away for the f*** ups. In OFP:RR for example, they only thing that bothers me is that the M16A4 in-game looks like the Canadian C7 rifle. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 18:50, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

don't forget in MW2, fans were commenting that the rear flip up sight on the SCAR was backwards and would back towards the shooter and not forward. IW didn't change it cause they don't care of the little details. Also I like to see a game where they have a random chance to destroy your optic so can you actually can flip up your irons. After the EMP in MW2, they forgot that pretty much all the M4s and SCARS had flip up sights but none of them bothered to flip them up. That'll be the first thing I noticed when I aim or the fact that the ACOG is not electronic and would still work when an EMP hits. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:43, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

*Let's not forget MW2 is the same game which showed the Model 1887 being reloaded by having every cartridge put into the barrel. Would certainly make for an interesting first shot... [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 19:58, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

::In the words of the Demo Man from ''[[Team Fortress 2]]'', "Ka-BOOM!" :P [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 20:18, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

New behind-the-scenes footage reveals that there are partial reload animations --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:16, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

I liked how ''[[Project Reality]]'' completely replaced the M16/M4 reload animation from ''BF2''; the only time the charging handle is messed with is when you first bring the weapon up, and even then it's more of a brass check than a full pull back. The reloading animation has you swap the mags, hit the bolt release, and check the ejection port. Much more realistic reloading animation. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:03, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

What I wish is adding different animation for reloads. If you are in the middle of an intense fire fight, you reload and press the bolt faster and you randomly fumble with your reload cause it happens. Or if the firefight is over, you do a more slow reload. Also if the gun has flip up sights, I want to see an animation where you actually flip those irons up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:02, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:I don't think I'd be happy with the former; same as random jams or giving singleplayer enemies a chance of getting an instakill headshot on the player, it isn't much fun having the game secretly flipping a coin to decide if you get screwed or not. ''Black'' did slower reloads if you weren't being fired at, though; it either sped the whole animation up or skipped the unnecessary wanking around if you were being shot at when you pressed reload. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:50, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

Another thing about leaving the front sight post on the M4s is that the red dot sight is raised and not like in COD4 where it is mounted on the rail. Maybe in real life, having 2 eyes would sort of work, but even then you can still have a front post bother your eye looking at it. It wouldn't be a clear shot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:04, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:The only game I've seen that gets it all right is Crysis 2, and the weapons are all fictional, though they could all easily exist. It's got both reload animations (six actually, because you do them different in Armour or Stealth mode), +1 in the chamber, attachments on your gun based on where they're mounted (one optic, a suppressor or no suppressor, and an underbarrel), believable damages based on calibres, functioning pistol hammers, and pistol slides that lock back when empty and not as part of the reload animation (meaning you can run around and stuff with a locked empty pistol). [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:02, 16 March 2011 (CDT)

== PKM ==

At the left on the bridge an enemy soldier have a Pkm machine gun :
http://www.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Battlefield3_Gogogo.jpg (high resolution sorry) [[User:Arrak|Arrak]]
:PKP

== Disable Vehicles ==

New info at Kotaku and others mentions "Temporarily disabling vehicles". I'm thinking it may be some sort of EMP thing, though, even for BF that's a stretch. What would be preferable, is if for instance... a tank... had several parts that were damageable. Things like treads, optics, engines, etc could be disabled in order to halt a tank. Same goes with tires and stuff like that with other vehicles. This'd be really cool in my opinion, for instance, snipers could damage the optics of a tank with say a .50 BMG round, temporarily of course. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:23, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

== M16 Carry Handle Fix ==

If anybody's seen the EA PWNED BF3 episode, it looks like they've added the carry handle to the M16A4. Two short clips demonstrating the ANT animation system that show the M16A4 with it. Good stuff. Also, did anyone notice how they're making prone realistic? It seems they're having the player's elbows be fixed rotateable spots along with the player's spine being able to bend a certain number of degrees. In order to rotate around, the player has to physically crawl over to view that area. It's easy to see in the animation demos that I referred to, but it's also noticeable on the 12 minute trailer when the Marines are on the rooftop, watch the perspective of the player's weapon and how it moves in relation to the arms. Very cool indeed, because I know balancing prone has always been a problem with BF. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:15, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

== Multiplayer Teaser ==

there is a MP teaser up on www.origin.com, looks like they have gone and screwed the m4 up, (removed front site) [[User:Sike|Sike]] 16:22, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Can't get a good enough look at the gas block to tell. Anywho... I spotted the M16A4, a Mk 46/M249, M9 pistol, the PKM Pencheng, SVD, Mk 11/SR-25 (Not a M110, no full URX rail), AKS-74, and the Grach pistol. All but the SVD and Grach are viewable in the trailer, the AKS-74, SVD, and Grach are visible in the corner where it lists the kills. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:36, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-battlefield-3/714884 pause at 0:19 for the M4, [[User:Sike|Sike]] 16:42, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The AKS-74U screenshot shows what appears to be an enemy carrying two [[RPG-7]] launchers. Can't tell if they have optics or straight iron sights. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:56, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== Who? ==

Who put the Mk 11 as the 9A-91? Travesty, stoked that the Mk 11 is in though. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:30, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74M ==

This photo was posted on battlefields facebook page.

[[File:BF3_IMFDB_(AK-74).JPG]]

It seems that while the US gets an M-4A1 with and without optics, the Russians/PLR get an AK-74M.
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:54, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

This might've just been the loadouts they had for E3, doesn't necessarily confirm faction specific weaponry. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:00, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Is that PSO-1 or the same unidentified sight from Medal of Honor? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:31, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

They modelled receiver lid locking knob wrongly. Should be like [http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/photoshooter/708/i-711.jpg this]

== Physical Warfare Pack ==

New weapons, folks!

[http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com/content.php?4305-Battlefield-3-Limited-Edition-Physical-Warfare-Pack-Available-for-Preorder-in-UK Battlefield 3 Limited Edition: Physical Warfare Pack Available for Preorder in UK]

Time for article update? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:08, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:I see they're calling it the DAO-12 again. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:Type 88 (and it seems the Bipod is an attachment), "DAO-12" lol, with Flechette ammo, aaaaaaaand... a Flash Suppressor for the "SKS Sniper Rifle"!!!! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::"SKS Sniper Rifle?" So we're set in California? Watch out, the bad guys have high-capacity 15-round magazines! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:56, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Isn't the SKS 10 rounds though? I never really liked the look of the SKS, but I've seen a lot of people on this site post about wanting it in a game for once, so it'll make all them happy :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, I'm just talking generally; you know, scary handguns with high-capacity magazines and laws to rid the streets of the scourge of drive-by rifle grenadings and gangland bayonet charges. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::::Haha, yeah, I'm from Canada, and while we don't actually have as strict laws as, say, California, what we have is lots of paperwork and time spent training for licenses, etc. Making them harder to get and needing more knowledge about them is way better than just banning them. I never understood that, oooo, a bayonet mount, oh no! A pistol grip? They'll kill us so much more efficiently now! Criminals use illegally bought weapons that aren't registered. And that guy that comes home to find his wife is cheating on him? He's so mad he'll kill both of them, and they think he won't just get a knife or something? I'm not supporting killing people, but people would still do it even if all the firearms on Earth went away. We were pretty damn good at it for the thousands of years before we invented them... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:36, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::::::Agreed :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:26, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Still no update? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:16, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

'laws to rid the streets of the scourge of drive-by rifle grenadings' - I lol'd --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Why in the hell would they make the SKS a 'Sniper Rifle'? I mean calling the Dragunov a true sniper rifle is pretty much... wrong, I'm okay with it though, but an SKS?
I'll admit I'm not very experienced with the SKS myself, maybe it's a tack driver in disguise, but from what I've heard it's just a little more accurate than your standard AK47 and that's not saying much.... --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 12:56, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:Well there are only going to be semi-auto sniper rifles, so really, there are only DMRs anyway. It's not like it's a sniper class, it's a recon class, so that's not missnamed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:59, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Source? There's no way they'd make all the sniper rifles semi-automatic. We've only seen semi-automatics, yes, but there's no confirmation that they'll -all- be semi-automatic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:09, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:That's what I got out of the Recon description here:
http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2011/06/08/battlefield-3-at-e3-roundup.aspx
Semi-auto and C4. That could just mean default, and you still get bolt-actions and the mortar later, but I really think they mean they removed both of those, to balance the issues with those two things in BC2. Everyone uses Recon, everyone hides with a one hit kill sniper rifle, and everyone calls in their magic mortars from anywhere onto anything. It looks like they're trying to make the Recon kit more of a DMR kit than a true sniper, which is probably better, it fits the squad play better as a DMR and a support gunner do the same job, one with high amounts of precision, the other with high amounts of ammo. On a different note, I'm pretty sure the M4A1 will be in the engineer kit because it has a flashlight and will be the counterpart to the AKS-74U, like the M16A4 and AK-74M. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:36, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

: They meant at the E3 demo, the Recon class has a semi-automatic sniper rifle. At the E3 Demo. Hence the "E3 Roundup" title, it's not dismissing anything, just saying what they saw at E3. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:47, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Finally :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:12, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

== M249 SAW is actually Mk. 46 Mod 0? ==

By looking at the handgurads, I noticed that they are sticking out like the Mk. 46 Mod 0's handguards instead of the flat M249 SAW's heatshield. Also, because the weapon is fitted with M145 ECLAN scope, this could be the same model as in Medal of Honor, only it is rendered differently or something like that to fit Battlefield 3's engine. So, could be? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

: Yep, it's for sure the Mk 46. Though, it's all one nacho. Glad with the weapon choices they're going with so far. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:34, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

Glad to see the M145 MGO, presumably in place of the ACOG. Nice touch. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Yep, there's also some speculation that there'll be multiple types of 4x optics for each weapon, like you could put the Elcan on an M4. But I think it's more likely that each weapon will just have a different model of ACOG-type optic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 08:27, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

:If that's the case, I'm putting the ELCAN on the M16A4, and if there's camo I'm making it green :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:08, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

::Canadian, eh? :P --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Yup ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:12, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

The quality of the screenshot is too low to tell if it's an M249 or a Mark 46. The key difference between the two is that the M249 has a magazine well on the side of the receiver for using M16 mags, but the Mark 46 doesn't. You can't really tell if the SAW in this game has a mag well or not. I also want to point out that the SAW in MoH has a magazine well, which would make it an M249. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:06, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== P90 in IGN preview ==

here

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/117/1172554/battlefield-3-20110606090440594-000.jpg

the magazine looks like its either missing or modeled way to small

source http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/117/1172554p1.html

sorry i dont know how to embed an image [[User:Sike|Sike]] 07:54, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

there's a clear model error...the magazine is lodged inside the weapon at an angle and the charging handles are floating above the magazine in midair.
however, the magazine looks like its of appropriate size and its transparent....would be a nice touch if the bullets inside would actually be visible and move.

May perhaps point to an extended magazines type system, though you'd expect the studio to realise that the P90 feeds from the rear so this wouldn't function --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:09, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

There are Extended Magazines, you can see them in the loadout window in some of the E3 footage on a PKP Pecheneg. But, what the P90 is likely, is just a pre-alpha mess-up. The magazine is there and properly sized, its' just angled downward into the weapon/barrel. It's not married properly to the P90 and is likely just a glitch that will be fixed. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 08:29, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Fair enough, pretty cool that things such as extended magazines have made it into BF3 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:22, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==

I just saw the latest video where the M4A1 had a holo-sight and the gas block was removed. Looks like this will be just another unrealistic game after all. But at least the character pressed the BCRB instead of pulling the charging handle. Damn it, when will a new Rainbow Six game come out?! - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:38, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

It's not a big deal. The M4A1 still kills people and looks great. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:I might be a bit annoying to have every game M4 lose its gas block, but it really doesn't matter THAT much, and it makes the scope view clearer. To say that it will be "just another unrealistic game" because of that is silly, just pretend it has one of those super mini gas blocks, you wouldn't even be able to see it anyway. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:57, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:: The problem is that I don't want to have a clear view because soldiers do not have clear view ALL the time. And there is a nice little thing called "flat-top riser". One might wonder why was it invented.... - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:07, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:But they're ugly and no one uses them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:45, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:Would be cool if removing gas block was optional and made gun bolt-action. Talk about killing with skill :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::Bolt-action sniper rifles will be usable without scopes.

== Some Weapon Spots ==

(Continuously updated) This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwT6x7zEQ8c) shows on the kill-feed that the SVD makes a return for Battlefield 3 at 2:20. At 3:48 you see an enemy in the engineer class holding what appears to be an RPG-7 at 3:48. The kill-feed shows at 4:06 a MP-443 pistol. Clear look at an RPG-7 with on the back of an enemy soldier with the rocket (quite dangerously) inserted at 6:03 and again at 7:23. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 16:32, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

== Team Specific Weapons? ==

Looking at the AKS-74U pictures it looks scarily like that's a US Marine using it on Spetsnaz. As far as I know there'll be unlockables and selectable weapons, but does anyone know if these are team specific or not? I'm personally pretty worried we're going to have a bunch of marines in state of the art gear running around with AK rifles because a bunch of bars say they're the best, or PLR using M4s and 249's, that's as bad, if not worse. --[[User:AmrasCalmacil|AmrasCalmacil]] 17:26, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:That's only in MP, it's the same as Bad Company 2, I never liked being restricted to team weapons im MP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

:The player could've picked the weapon up... We don't know for sure about faction specific loadouts. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 23:54, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::I personally liked the faction specific loadouts in BF2, it was realistic. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:True, to be honest I'd be happy either way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:49, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope they bring back faction specific weapons from Battlefield 2. Medal of Honor made it right at first but then you got the opposing faction's guns and faction-specificness pretty much lost its purpose :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

::But in BF2 if you killed a enemy you can pick up his "kit" and use his weapons... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:08, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Yes, first you had to kill an enemy, then you could pick his stuff (kit). But for Battlefield 3 it should be weapon (more realistic than insta-crossdressing xD ) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:12, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::::Your right, lol. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:25, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Actually in BC2 your character model never changed when you swaped kits, you could have a medic carrying a sniper rifle, or a ghillie guy with an RPG-7. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::::Ah right, I forgot. :\
:::::Lol, you forgot about rocket launcher-wielding snipers ;) Hey, we should put a pic of that under the rocket section or something, you know, just for kicks. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:05, 20 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::lol yeah. The reason I don't remember is because I only played with bots, I only had Dial-up back then. u_u - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:34, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

I hope its not side specific, I always hated that considering how two weapons from the same class where completely different and handled different. Most people would end up using unlocked guns that you can use on either side. If you want a game thats realistic as possible, play Operation Flashpoint.

:Being a fan of Battlefield 2, which featured faction specific weapons, I'm offended someone is saying me to play another game. I might as well say: If you want a game thats unrealistic as possible, play Call of Duty. By the way, in Medal of Honor opposing factions' weapons had identical stats, so that wouldn't be a problem for Battlefield 3 (probably). Also, sign your posts (paragraphs?) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

::Well since OpFor is using a AK-74M and AKS-74U which is some-what comparable to the M16A4 and M4A1, I say the game is gonna be fairly balanced. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
::: If they use weapon balance from MoH then yes. Because in BF2 M16A2 and M4A1 kinda sucked (better use G36E and SCAR-L unlocks, respectively). However AK-101 and AKS-74U were ''nice'' (damage)! Check their stats here: [http://wiki.bf2s.com/weapons/comparison BF2 Weapons Comparison] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

:^^But those games kinda sucked (at least Dragon Rising, Red River looks good). :\ Whatever, I personally like faction specific weapons for my reasons above. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:27, 22 June 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, Dragon Rising didn't suck, it was just buggy and laggy (which can be said about pretty much every other shooter, at least as start) and didn't have weapon customization (which can be said about Battlefield 2). In my opinion it is Red River which sucked, basically being Co-op CoD:MW with Visible Walls of Block being replaced by Invisible Walls of Doom and auto regeneration being replaced by manual healing. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, that's why I said ''kinda'' sucky, lol I heard AAII is much worst, as its severely buggy and lacks weapon animations and others. P.S. I prefer manual healing over mutant regenerating health any day, the only place 3 second regenerating health belongs is a Wolverine game. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
::::To be honest, manual healing in Red River isn't ''that'' much different from auto regeneration: hold "use" key while not getting hit and several seconds later you are good to go. Whether Dragon Rising had an actual Medic class just like Battlefield :) Oh, and it's kinda hard to make complex game without ''a lot'' of technical problems and unfinished things, yes ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, if you want actual realism at this point, you go ArmA 2, not Operation Flashpoint: We-screwed-over-an-already-great-franchise-by-making-a-game-with-casual-gamers-in-mind[[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] 03:06, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
:If you want actual realism at this point, you go to Army. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

::Ugh, But ArmA II had NO weapon animations, that's kinda a big "unfinished thing" when you publish the game! And you Mr. Masterius, your obnoxious, why don't ''you'' go join the Army. We're talking about wanting realistic combat games not what peoples career decisions should be. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:04, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Mr. Wolf, one thing you should realise: until Virtual Reality is created and gone into mass production, games will never, NEVER be trully realistic. Holding gun in your hands =\= Mouse+Keyboard. Also, mine is not obnoxious, mine is very nice and tidy :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

::::And what's so wrong with wanting realism in "Mouse+Keyboard" games? Also I have handled, extensively trained, and fired many REAL firearms, so I'm not just some armchair-commando or a mall-ninja. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

:Eventually FPSs will be the player wearing a mocap suit with a mocap gun, in a mocap room with a floor that moves (like a treadmill) so you can run places. And you will be forced to reload the weapon properly etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::The first steps are made :D [http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/xio-ultimate-fps-virtual-reality-gaming-exoskeleton-prototype-video-21-04-2011/ XIO Gaming VR Simulator Prototype] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:54, 25 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I'd settle for having a decent field of view, right now. They're actually getting narrower rather than wider as the gun attempts to colonise roughly a quarter of the screen. Kinda sad when the guy in ''Doom'' held his pistol in a more sensible way than the guy in ''Crysis 2'' does; the latter seems to be holding it with the base of his right palm rested against his nose. Sure, we're not all going to own an IMAX globe theatre any time soon to have a full 180 degrees or so of vision, but it gets silly when your FOV is ~30 degrees these days when most of the old shooters did 70-90. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:I removed your post? Maybe we both tried to edit at the same time, because it wasn't there when I did, sorry about that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:34, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Lol @ me. Should have known someone was going to say that... Should have added "In a Video game"... [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] 08:00, 25 June 2011 (CDT)
:Right 8) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:51, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

::It's alright, danke. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:31, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

==More Stuff==
Maybe. I didn't see anything listed here that we don't have, but they seem to know what they're talking about. (Near the bottom)
http://enterbf3.com/
[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:17, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

== Barrett MRAD/98B spotted ==

Taken from the "Classes Explained" screenshot...

[http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x80/cowboyw54/Bf3render.jpg]

source:
[http://bf3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bf3-classes.jpg]

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 18:07, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Cool, I'd never heard of that rifle before, looks like a good addition. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like they call Picatinny Railed M16A4 '''M16A2''' ''again'' *facepalm*. Oh, and that's a weird sniper rifle. Don't they have '''M110''' for that?
:P.S. And yeah, same goes for '''DAO-12''' (Armsel Striker, duh!). But I would prefer '''Armsel Protecta''' (it's more modern after all ;) ) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:01, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
::Actually they are calling it '''M-16a2'''... nuff said! - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:14, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
:::If it was called "Blarg Rifle" but had correct reloads, I'd be happy. Where did it say they called it an A2 anyway? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:03, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
::::[http://bf3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bf3-classes.jpg here] [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:50, 7 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::Oh right, well, it might say "M-16a2", but it calls the MRAD a "Mk. II" Sniper Rifle, so, we'll see. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Well I think that the "Mk. II" is the Mk II Mod 0 (SR-25), and that they just threw the text on there because the Mk II will be the default Recon rifle.
Anyways, I think this 99% confirms that it will be in the game, should it be added to the main page?
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:28, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:OH Mk.11, I thought it said Mk.2, and I couldn't figure out what the hell that would be. Yeah, we've seen the SR-25 already in that multiplayer footage, and everything in that video was default. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

So MoH had the M110 when it should have had the Mark 11, but BF3 now has the Mark 11 when it should have the M110 (USMC recently dropped the Mark 11 in favor of the M110)? *Facepalm* [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:27, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:Indeed. Another thing about MoH is that apparently Mark 14 Mod 0 got finished in 2003 and got shipped to Navy SEALs in 2004[http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=377] thus making it as chronologically incorrect as M110. Devs usually tend to skip the details. Still, the crown of ignorance goes to CoD brand. The latest MW3 seems to have customized AK-47 *Major Facepalm* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:39, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

==Notes about in-game ACOG scopes==

I noticed that there seem to be two separate models of ACOG scopes available in the game, according to the screenshots posted in the article. The M4A1 carbine the player character uses in the 'Faultline' trailer is fitted with a camo-painted TA01NSN ACOG(identifiable by the integral iron sights and lack of a fiber-optic strip along the top) while one of the M16A4's shown in first-person view in the article here is equipped with a TA31F ACOG. This is the second FPS game I've seen to do this, the other being ''[[Project Reality]]'' (itself a mod of ''[[Battlefield 2]]'', coincidentally) which has the TA31F and TA31RCO ACOG models available in it. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:44, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:...While in the average FPS, you're lucky if the thing called the ACOG looks like anything in Trijicon's product line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:47, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Making the public in general think every scope is called an ACOG :P Also, in terms of 4x sights, theres the M249s ELCAN, and I'm hoping you can put any optic on anything. One of the DICE guys said there's a crazy amount of optics in BF3. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:26, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Even in COD: Black Ops (a game that takes place in the 60s mind you) they have a scope called a ACOG, even though it's obviously ''not'' a ACOG *rolls eyes*. Game Devs are becoming fails more and more every year. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:08, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Treyarch basically made their own Modern Warfare, with blackjack and hookers. So yeah, forget about proper portray of Cold War. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:41, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Give me the ability to slap the Elcan onto the M240 and I will be happy. Hope what you said about the 'crazy amount of optics' turns out to be true. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:34, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I hope you're not confusing the ELCAN scope with the similar M145 MGO. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 12:05, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::::You are correct, I did mean the MGO. I know the M145 is different, I just though the Elcan name was interchangeable. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:15, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::It would be nice to see a broader array of optics customizations in FPS games. ''Project Reality'' has a pretty good variety, but you have to switch out your entire class loadout in order to change this, and most weapons only have 1 or 2 optics available aside from iron sights (the M4A1 has the widest variety; having available EOTech, M68 Aimpoint, Kimber Mepro, & ITL MARS red dots as well as both TA31F & TA31RCO ACOGs as mentioned above). [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 12:05, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Now, that Project Reality has been mentioned... I hope DICE won't disappoint the CIS players, so that we can kick yer capitalist arses in proper way... j/k lol :P Anyway, here are the articles for those interested: [http://ra.spetsnaz.su/wiki/1P29 for AK-74M] and [http://ra.spetsnaz.su/wiki/PKP for PKP]. And the [http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/sights_for_small_arms/ full catalog]. Oh, and it's been suggested on [http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3/1405448-optics-lots-optics-2.html#post19418223 EA's Forums], so I don't have to do it myself. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:24, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

== Mocap Guns ==
Here's a challenge for everyone; what are the two wire guns standing in for?

2nd Story
http://www.enterbf3.com/

Or if it's off the list after a while:
http://media.enterbf3.com/images/mcnab1.jpg
http://media.enterbf3.com/images/mcnab2.jpg [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:29, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

Cornershot and a Thompson with M203? :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:35, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

:lolz. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:51, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

More seriously, that thing McNab has is definately supposed to be a carbine with an underbarrel accessory, I can't really see what else it could be. The other guy's weapon is a bit more of a mystery; since it doesn't have any kind of projection for a magazine, I'd guess it's something like a Bizon; can't be a P90, these rigs are for capturing hand positions and his would be completely wrong for that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:36, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, actually it does have a magazine, I see a curved MP5-style mag just in front of his finger. So, maybe it's an MP5 with some underbarrel device making the front end all chunky, or one of those MP10 things like in GTAIV. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:40, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

LOL Tommy with M203 :) The one on the right really looks like an M14 EBR to me, the mag, handguard, and barrel, but the other one is weird. It looks like an MP5 pistol grip and mag, with a really bulky front, and a stock that looks familiar, bu I just can't place. :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:09, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

: [http://riflestocks.com/store/product2.html ACE side-folding skeleton stock]? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:48, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, that's the one! Hmm, is there anything in particular that's on, aftermarket or otherwise? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:29, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Quick google gets me mostly AK-pattern weapons. AK, Saiga, Galil, that kind of thing. Couple on MACs, not that it's likely to be one of those. Maybe that's what a MoCap AKS-74U looks like? :s [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:36, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I'd say that's the best guess so far [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:13, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Dunno, such a stock shape reminds me of [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:G36.jpg G36E] which was in Battlefield 2 (with railz instead of optics). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:35, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Not sure about that, you'd have thought if it was G36E the mocap prop would have a rod or something stuck to the end to represent the rest of the barrel like the one McNab has. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:44, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Bah, I am not really into guessing the gun by the mocap. Details of it - OK, but generally it's just a mishmash that can be used for anything provided the grip is adequate xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:51, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

Actually the ACE stock is found on the SPAS 15 as well (which was in Bad Company 1, and Battlefield 2 I think) probably the most likely choice. --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 18:48, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

:I hope it's that, that was the ONLY weapon that didn't come back in BC2 for some reason. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:44, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

::But it returned in [[Battlefield Play4Free#Franchi SPAS-15|Battlefield Play4Free]] so its appearance in BF3 is possible ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 23:20, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 17 unlock spotted ==

... in a promotional shot from Dice about their Battlelog service

[http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/resized-image.ashx/__size/550x599/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/2.jpg]

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 13:02, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

:It was also seen in the EA Pwned video, along with the G3 (mentioned), I forgot to add that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:06, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

::I hope this Glock 17 actually holds... well... 17 rounds. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:24, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, the MP-443 does, so that could work, I'm thinking there's gonna be a Euro faction, with the Glock as the sidearm, and we've also seen the P90. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:17, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Now that reminds me... Battlefield 2: Modern Combat (console version of Battlefield 2) had [[ Battlefield 2: Modern Combat#Glock 17 Pistol|Glock 17]] as Euro Sidearm :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:44, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::It did? Awesome! I was just guessing, but that basically confirms it :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:54, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Here's some leaked gameplay for you guys, skip to 1:44, there's your Glock. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfeOoEDYEt0) Would appear that the sidearms (at least) are not faction specific. Also looks like it holds 18 rounds but I'm assuming this is a '+1' affair. [[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:00, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Melee Animation is good :D Reloading after every bullet isn't :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:48, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Alpha Footage ==

no doubt some of you have heard there is a closed alpha trial going on, and some of you may have watched the leaked footage online. i dont want to post links to these videos just incase its not aloud.
but i can tell you, that the G36c, Glock 17, M27 IAR, SV98, MP7 and M1014 are in. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 08:24, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:Closed Alpha? Any news about Closed Beta for MoH: Limited Edition owners? It should be before Open Beta, shouldn't it? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:41, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:A pretty nice selection of weapons appearing which is good to see, particularly the M27. Now just need someone to spot the L85 and I'll be happy \o/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:19, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::I guess it, Russian counterpart to M27 is going to be RPK-74M :O And British - L86? ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:41, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::You may possibly be right, and I hope you are. If it's in there, first person to deliver the information wins a shiny medal from myself :o --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:48, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::looks like US support starts with the M27, and the Russians start with RPK, british forces arent in the game... --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 13:58, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::The existence of other factions hasn't been denied (to my knowledge) but even so I hope either weapon is available --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:02, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Germans aren't in the game and there's a G36C. We can't rule anything out. Plus, there's always the possibility of DLC. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:31, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::New factions/weapons added via DLC would be grand. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:50, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::Yeah, like they did with Euro Forces Pack for Battlefield 2 :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:37, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:I've yanked the images off the page; as with the MW3 stuff, posting images from leaks is not allowed. Wait until they show up in something official. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:16, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::Why does it even matter? We should post everything about everything we know... :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:36, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Same reason we don't allow pirated or leaked movie footage; using that kind of thing reflects badly on the site. We can wait until these weapons are confirmed in official materials (which they will be in due course, I'm sure), we don't need to go using dubious sources. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:39, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, for a sec it slipped my mind that once the game is out we will have everything :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::And there are still screencaps from leaked version :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:37, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Which ones? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:30, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::The ones added by Gran28 - check page history. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:41, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Oh, I thought where he said "Paris gameplay video" he was talking about a gameplay video released at some show in Paris. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:49, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::The ones that I added was from a gameplay trailer released by DICE yesterday I think.--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 08:04, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Ah, if that's so, then my bad. Kinda hard to separate official ones from current leaks. Better mention that on the talk page :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:28, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== New Official MP Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emwEknzmyRo

can see a M4 with a Eotech and a Acog, and the front site is in when optics are attached.--[[User:Sike|Sike]] 08:32, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Possible return of the NDM-86 ==
I was watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MgQMoPwGwM&feature=related and around 1:13-14, I thought I saw the pattern found on the straight mags that the 7.62mm NATO variant of the NDM-86 uses.
EDIT: Okay at 1:15 at the maximum quality, I could clearly see that magazine is straight. This is no SVD guys, no SVD. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 18:09, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:Good spot, wouldn't have noticed that myself. I wonder why they opted for the NDM-86 instead of the SVD? I assume the SVD is harder to get in Sweden meaning the studio had to find an alternative. Is it still labeled as an SVD within the game? --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 19:52, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::It is, and it was in MoH. You know, I think MoH was like a super pre-Alpha version of this game, there's and MP7 too, and a few others. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:03, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I hope DICE do a better job on BF3 than they did on MoH, that game was shocking. There's probably some truth in that though :P --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:43, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Well, MoH multi was made by a small team from DICE in 6-7 months, and ALL of DICE has been working on BF3 for, like, 5 years, I'm not worried ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:52, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Fair play to them but you'd have thought issues with the game would have been patched following the game's release. Still, I don't deny that BF3 will be a far better game however I'm sure some of the issues from MoH will poke through. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Well, we can hope the issues that poke through don't include those godawful skyboxes that MoH had. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:26, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::DICE deliberately sabotaged MoH MP 'cause they were focused on BC2... :( But it is said that MoH 2 is being developed solely by DC. And it is rumored that MoH 2 will have Frostbite 2 Engine :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:50, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Would be interesting to see what DC do with the Frostbite 2 engine, I wasn't all that impressed with the single player but taking into account that (as far as I'm aware) MoH was the studio's first game, it was an adequate effort. Was better than the multiplayer at least, in my opinion. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:20, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I've always said that if MoH's MP was the same as it SP, then the MP would be awesome, I have it just for the SP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:35, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Just played some more of SP and I have to say I agree, pretty intense stuff. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:38, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Default Weapons ==
I just noticed that all of the US weapons are Armalites, and all of the Russian weapons are Kalashnikovs, it's cool. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:58, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

:Aside from the 'SVD' which isn't a Kalashnikov design, but we'll forgive you as it is outwardly similar. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:16, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::True, but you got the point ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::[http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/sniper/sn18/svd_clones.jpg SVD Clones]. The third one is AK modified to SVD. Ain't Russian guns :P --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:58, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I do like the fact that each faction has it's own starting weaponry, I always liked that about BF2 (though I didn't play it much) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:25, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Agreed :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:58, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== AS Val ==
I can't find the video, but I'll post a link: http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/7447261.page [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:31, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:20, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Sniper Rifles can have iron sights ==
Yup. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:04, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:Hmmm. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:56, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

== M1014 ==
It's hard to tell because of the screwed up animation in the alpha, but you load a round into the chamber first, then the tube. EDIT: This is a good thing, I made sound like it wasn't :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:32, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

== M16A4 ==
It fires semi, burst, AND auto, one of those fancy 360 degree fire selects or something :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:32, 23 July 2011 (CDT)
:problem?

== New Alpha Gameplay ==

In the gameplay, I noticed that the front sights are still present when optics are attached, that M16A4 is now burst-fire and that the US LMG is called M249 in-game. Bipod gameplay was shown too. I also spotted the M-416 at 0:55, maybe the M4A1 equivalent of the enemy forces? [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:45, 24 July 2011 (CDT)

:Okay, yeah, they made it so the front sight is there, but disappears when aiming, the M16 has burst as well as auto (and semi), and the HK416 is an unlock, ONLY the default weapons are faction based, anyone can use unlocks, but the default ones might be usable by anyone later or something though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:42, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::That's still much better than the MW games. Boy, you complain more about games than I do. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:19, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::Defaults faction / unlocks not is how BFs 2 and 2142 worked, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:08, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not complaining, I actually like the front sight disappearing system, if it's not there the gun wouldn't work, but if it was, then having an RDS would give you a better field of view. The M16's fire modes aren't too bad, as long as the weapons have the right ammo count, reload properly, and have +1 I'm happy. Things like the player loading it fancy or whatever are okay. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

== M320 Standalone confirmed ==
This. Search "BF3 Grenade Launcher", and the vid has a G3 with an ACOG too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

== SIG 550 pretty much confirmed by Demize ==
http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/30377608852017152 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:Swiss weapon of choice 8) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== A Few Weapon Vids ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuoU7uBNvP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LILgS-M2xo

Here's most everything in action, and with a few attachments. I love how the description for the M145 mentions the Canadian Army! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:37, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:Looking good so far, spotted some people on my Steam friends list playing the alpha. So jealous. :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:43, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::I'm looking very forward to this game. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:42, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Video Confirms new weapons for the game, as available in alpha build. In the first video we see an MP-7 PDW at 1:14, M1911 pistol at 1:57, RPK light machinegun on killfeed at 3:21, M27 IAR in killfeed at 6:12, M1014 shotgun at 7:34, G3 battlerifle on killfeed at 8:29, G36c assault rifle at 12:15, M320 grenade launcher on killfeed at 13:16. In the 2nd video we see RPK selection and model at 6:07 (usage following). Someone please update main page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:32, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Good of you to find everything, but leaked stuff isn't going on the main page :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:25, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::: awww =(, thanks though.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:39, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Sigh, The M145 uses the M4 reticle over the M249/240 reticle :( --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:47, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::That's the reticle my (standard version) ELCAN replica has on my airsoft C7A2, do you mean the M145 version is supposed to have a different one? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:40, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::[http://www.dsarms.com/images/ELCM145M4W.gif Elcan M145 Optical Sight for M4 and M249/M240]. Remember people, this is just leaked Alpha and DICE will ''probably'' make changes to the game to make it right... Oh, and RPK :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:53, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Oh I see. And what do you mean, oh and the RPK? What's wrong with it? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:07, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::Has the wrong bipod at the moment, doesn't look like the barrel is long enough to be an RPK either --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:31, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::Well... since it has both synthetic furniture and curved magazine, it is [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/machine/mg15/rpkm.jpg RPKM] (ignore the magazine color). However in-game description mentions that it uses 5.45x39 ammo, which is used in [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/machine/mg16/rpk74_02.jpg RPK-74M] that is actually used by Russian Forces. So the point is, DICE should change the magazine model and rename the weapon to '''RPK-74M''' for Russians. That Militia can use whatever they want. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:36, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::I didn't know that, so the curvature of the magazine in an AK/RPK-style weapon can be used to identify the caliber? DICE have clearly given alpha invites to the wrong people, should have gone to the inhabitants of IMFDB. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:42, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::: :D And yeah. The curve gradation for Kalashnikovs' magazines goes as follows: 5.56 < 5.45 < 7.62, with 7.62 curve being particularly distinguishable ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:28, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::::You learn something new everyday, now I can complain that the BF3 RPK is incorrect >:O --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:33, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::I sent Demize a tweet (I made a Twitter accout JUST to send him stuff) that the RPK should be either the RPKM or RPK-74M (as I can't see the mags well enough), and also sent him another one saying the G3 should be the G3A3 :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::::That is dedication to informing the developer their game is wrong, well played. I also sent him a tweet concerning the M145's reticle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:30, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::::Very good :D Two problems I've noticed about '''SVD''': First, as already been noticed, is that in-game model of magazine is straight NATO one instead of curved Russian one; second, is that in-game '''PKS-07''' is using optical PSO-1 based reticle instead of its own magnified reflex reticle like this one: [http://www.newphillysports.com/milsurp/pks07reticle.jpg]. And here information about it: [http://www.gunscollecting.com/english/scopes/pks-07-collimating-sight/]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:24, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::::::Just recieved an invite to the alpha, I am so stoked to try this game out \o/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:44, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::::Sweet! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:56, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 spotted ==

I just watched a video and the 1911 is back. This game's version appears to be the MEU model. I can tell from the slide, sights, and hammer. It appears to be the old model with the Springfield Armory slide. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 23:53, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:I can't see the grips, but it appears to be a stock M1911 with a commander-style hammer (the round one, not the MEU one), a silver 3-hole trigger, and a silver barrel. Oh, after Googleing I found that that IS the original version of the MEU :/ http://www.justpistols.co.uk/meu_001.jpg That's an airsoft gun, but it's EXACTLY the one from BF3. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:35, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Also, the MEU Pistol is currently designated [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/24/m45-close-quarters-combat-pistol/ M45] Pistol ;) So maybe in-game it is some kind of customized M1911 Pistol? :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:36, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== Alpha ==
I just got the invite for the Operation Metro Alpha and Will post info here if I can.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 20:53, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Awesome, that's two of us now :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

::So my impressions of the alpha so far are largely positive, not the biggest fan of the map however. Too many narrow corridors that you have to enter to advance, meaning that the defending team can plonk a SAW there and wipe you out as you enter the meat grinder. The weapons feel nice: Plenty of recoil meaning that burst firing is essential. Definitely an improvement gameplay-wise compared to BC2, which wasn't a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. Looking forward to the beta now! \o/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:46, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Improvement compared to BC2, is obviously. The question is, improvement compared to BF2! :O--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:31, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I can't really comment on whether it's better than BF2 as I haven't really spent much time on it (5 mins max) but it is a fairly solid FPS in it's own right. One thing that has bothered me thus far is 3D spotting, do not like it at all though, it should be changed for minimap spotting. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:46, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::Ah, in that case, if you still have BF2, I would recommend you download and install [http://www.realitymod.com/ Project Reality] mod, which focuses on realistic armed forces. There are people who have BF2 solely for it. And, it has British Army! :D [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/B_Uniform.png Their uniform] and [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/B_Weapons.png their weapons] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::Yeah and the Canadian Army :D I'll be getting BF2/RM soon. Keep in mind this is one of the smallest map and it's meant to be more infantry focused, they'll be much bigger ones with more vehicles ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:10, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Yup :D [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/C_Uniform.png Their uniform] and [http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/DMasterST/C_Weapons.png their weapons] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:49, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::I hope that with more vehicles comes more teammates actually willing to take them out. No one playing engineer was even trying, just using their launchers on each other. Meant to ask if anyone still played BF2 as I was gonna get it in anticipation for 3, should organise some gamz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

::::::::I'm trying to get BF2 again, loved that game, can't wait to convert it to PR. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:04, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Needs a bit of polish but what I played of the alpha was a lot of fun, roll on October --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:32, 1 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::Sweet! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::Anyone have any questions about it? I'd be happy to answer them (as best I can) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:27, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

== All Alpha weapons ==

http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/new-battlelog-screenshots-show-weapons-awards/battlelog-weapon-list/ - [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

:I hope, they will make new icons for AR-15 guns. These no-sights ones are just weird. Also, what I've said in "A Few Weapon Vids" --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:21, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

::The in-game ones have carry handles but I'm sure you knew this, I can live with a few slightly inaccurate icons on the Battlelog though. The M27 IAR had no front sight post for some reason in-game, made the Eotech pretty much essential. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:19, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Doesn't it have flip-up sights? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:43, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

::::It does, yes, but the front sight is missing the front sight post. As in, the sights are there, but the post is not. Made aiming quite tricky as you can imagine. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:34, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah, I'm assuming that's been fixed by now [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:15, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::I hope so, was a nightmare. Still, barely used the RPK/IAR once the SAW was unlocked --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 04:44, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Cause the SAW's a real support weapon ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:21, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::::^ This, though the fact that you can change the RPK and IAR to semi-auto was a nice feature --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:30, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::Does IAR have better accuracy and SAW better firepower or SAW has ''both''? Because if it is the second one, IAR seems kinda... useless. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:35, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::For sure, the IAR/RPK are definitely more accurate than the SAW, the SAW is quite difficult to use at range without deploying the bipod whereas the other two don't have as much recoil. I assume the lighter support weapons are there for the more mobile, front-line support guy. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:18, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

Pretty sure this legit as another article is saying they're from OXM so should they be moved to the page and not discussion ? [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

== why aren't confirmed weapons named? ==
such as the g3 ,m416 ,m27 iar and many more????

:Can't put leaked stuff on the page, you'd know this if you read the rest of the discussion --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:21, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

::yeah thats why all the weapons used in the alpha were named in an official blog and yet there still not up here , so dont tell me i need to read the discussion.

:::Do forgive me. Link to this blog? If it's legit you're free to edit the page if you wish. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:12, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I second the link request. Also, sign you posts. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:38, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

(TOSSED) RE-posting. You guys should simply look up a bit next time. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 11:18, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:Except that's not official blog. It's fanblog that also [http://bf3blog.com/battlefield-3-weapons/ makes assumptions] and [http://bf3blog.com/2011/07/battlefield-3-50-leaked-alpha-screenshots/ postes leaked stuff]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:55, 4 August 2011 (CDT)
::Looks like I'm tossing that out the window. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 13:20, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

::An image which was leaked from the alpha, users of which were under a non-disclosure agreement which means we could get in trouble if we post it up here. Until we get an absolutely official list of weapons (most likely from future trailers and the public beta) the page will stay the same. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

== Setups ==
So what kinda weapons and setups do you guys think you're gonna use?
*Medic - G3 (or other BR) with a scope
*Engineer - M1014 (or other shotty)
*Support - M249 (or other belt fed) with a bipod
*Recon - MP7 (or other SMG/PDW) with a suppressor
*Sidearm - M1911

Obviously details will change as we get more info and after we actually play the game ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:21, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:I'll probably play support mainly, it's what I spent 80% of the alpha doing and it's where I had the most fun. M240 with bipod, optic and flash suppressor will be my class of choice. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:29, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

:''Obviously details will change as we get more info and after we actually play the game''
:^ This --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:40, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

== PWNED #7 ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXaFw7aC9GE
A couple things I missed the first time I saw it, there's the M4, M1911, and G17, but also a Desert Eagle and MP5SD2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:17, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

:Desert Eagle? [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigNo NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:48, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::What's up with the Desert Eagle? It's a perfectly good combat pistol *trollface*. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:11, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::: :( --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:22, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::::Developers really need to stop putting large caliber handguns and revolvers in supposedly 'realistic' games, it just feels stupid. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:38, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::''[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0-oinyjsk0 I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?]'' --''Harold Francis "Dirty Harry" Callahan''

:::::[http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/handguns/usa/revolver/1287756474.jpg .357 Magnum Colt Whitetailer], camper's wet dream :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:45, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

:Their rack of guns at 3:06 (presumably airsoft for modelling purposes) contains an M14 and a FAMAS, might be 2 more to expect in the full game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:00, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

::M1911 + M14 = Old School Pack 8) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:48, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

::Oops, I only thought to rewatch the range part, totally missed the FAMAS and M14 lol, good catch. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:15, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

== Pre-order Spectact kits ==

[http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/8472426507/2/tumblr_lpes8zstbf1r09ila][http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/8472426507/1/tumblr_lpes8zstbf1r09ila]

Some images of the exclusive Spectact kits you get via pre-order, you'll also notice that the Russian assault class soldier is holding an AEK-971

:Guess American Assault class gets XM8. Both weapons lost their respective trials. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:20, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

You do realise its just art , and probably wont be ingame --[[User:LukeWilliams010|LukeWilliams010]]

:Alright, will wait for confirmation regarding these weapons. Maybe it's just false alarm (and Desert Eagle too). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:49, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

::Nah, the AEK will most likely be in, and the AK-74M will go to the PLR faction. There's nothing official, but there's the AEK (RU) and 74M(PLR), SKS as a sniper (PLR), T-72 tanks (PLR), and MP lines recorded in English, Russian and Farsi, that's confermation enough. I've seen no evidence of the XM8, but who knows, they did say there's 10 times the unlocks as BC2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:30, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Russian Forces clearly used AK-74M on Operation Metro map. The same is expected from final release. As for PLR, there are only silhouettes, and as such it's unclear which AK is used. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:50, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

::::The AEK will probably be a universal unlock for all factions if it is indeed in the final game (which I believe it will be, doubt they'd use a weapon in artwork and not include it in-game) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:01, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

:::There most likely will be no AEK in final game. Those renders showing specact skins are pretty dated.

::::Fair enough, I didn't know that. Not too fussed either way, not a big fan of the weapon. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:09, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

Please no XM8, at least not in the SP. If it's an MP only gun, I could care less whether it's in or not, though. I'm buying this for the SP, which I'm hoping will be at least semi-realistic. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:18, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:I kinda doubt they will put in the XM8, I'd rather see a full-size G36. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:25, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

==M16A3==
Demize99 tweeted that the M16A4 has been renamed to A3. Though we don't know if it still has all three modes, I'm thinking it doesn't. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:49, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

:Hmm. Full Auto M16A4 seems more plausible to me than Picatinny Railed M16A3. Maybe call it M16A5? xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

::Nope, the A3 is actually an A4 with full auto, I thought it was an A2-style for a long time, but looks it up, its hard to find good descriptions, but the A3 and A4 are the same except burst/auto. No one on this site gets that because this site calls every A3-style an A4 with an A2 lower. Why? Because that's what armourers built them with, since they don't have A3s. In games the weapon is whatever it's meant to be because it's not "built" on anything. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:09, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Ah, now that's funny. Turns out to be true[http://www.armyproperty.com/Equipment-Info/M16A3-A4.htm][http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-e.html]. Silly 'mericans couldn't get hold of manual burst firing, Military Command had to enforce it for them :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:21, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

::::Hey, those are the two sites I found! I just couldn't find them again :P Anyway, look at the description on the first site, it's worded very old, saying things like identical to A2, but also same as A4. That's actually the most info I've seen on an A3 in one place, adding to the confusion, since there isn't good info around. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:16, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, Alex is wrong and so are the two websites Masterius linked to. The M16A3 is a full auto A2 (only used by SEALs and Seabees in very limited numbers), NOT a full auto A4. IMFDB policy is to identify a weapon visually, not by what the game calls it. In terms of A3 vs A4, the M16 in this game is intended to be an A4, so that's what it should be called. At least for the moment anyway. If it turns out the devs decide to axe the burst mode, we can classify it a C7A1, but until we know more, it should stay listed as an A4. I'm changing it back. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:11, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

::::Uhm, Modern Firearms is respectable source. If you are claiming that it is not that means you have a better one? And the weapon can't be C7A1 since C7A1 is [http://world.guns.ru/assault/can/diemaco-c7a1-c7a2-c-e.html Model C7FT] (Railed Model 715 itself) and Full Auto M16A4 is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901] (Full Auto Railed Model 705 itself). And there are differences between 705 and 715[http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/variants/]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:25, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:Now I want to know whether Demize99 tweeted about RPK and SVD... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:25, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

::The first A3s had A2 uppers, but were later (and still are) issued with railed uppers, that's where people get confused. A3 = Rail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I do have a better source. It's called Defense Industry Daily [http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m-16-rifle-purchases-04517/]. Additionally, if you take a look at the M16A2 section of the [[M16 rifle series]] page, it says the exact same thing. I also never said MF ''wasn't'' a respectable source, but that doesn't alter the fact that it's wrong in this case. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:25, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

:''Other MIL-STD-1913 rails can be found on the front grips '''et. al.''' of the '''A3s''' and A4s, where they mount useful items like flashlights, laser pointers, grip pods, et. al.''
:There too. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:59, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:'''P.S.''' Besides, why does it feature ''Wikipedia'' in '''Additional Readings'''?

::"Front grip" as in around the barrel, like a Knight's Armament M5 RAS. It has Wikipedia as an additional read because DID's article doesn't feature the M16 rifle's entire life story; Wikipedia does. In fact, why don't you take a look at Wikipedia where it states that the A3 is a full auto A2 and uses DID's article to verify it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:07, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

:::There are a number of different rifles designated as the M16A3 by the US military. The first is what Wikipedia refers to, the Colt Model 646 which is also known as the M16A2E3, which was introduced in small numbers at the same time as the M16A2 and is an A2 with an A1 lower and was only used by the Navy and Coast Guard. Then you have the flat-top Colt Model 901 which was introduced at the same time as the M16A4 (in 1994 I think) which is basically an M16A4 with full auto rather than burst. The following is what the US army website says about the A3 and A4: ""The M-16A3 is identical to the M-16A2 but has a removable carrying handle that is mounted on a Picatinny Rail (for better mounting of optics) and is without burst control. The M-16A4 is identical to the M-16A2 except for the removable carrying handle and Picatinny Rail." I would imagine that for modularity purposes the A3 in this game is the current version (Model 901). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:22, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Wow, thanks, that really clears it up, so we could call the full auto A2 the M16A2E3, and the full auto A4 the M16A3, that makes sure they have different names, right? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Interesting, found [http://compass.seacadets.org/pdf/nrtc/cb1/14234_ch3.pdf information about M16A1 and M16A2E3] on [http://www.seacadets.org/ U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps website]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:31, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::That PDF is actually wrong, as it states that the M16A2E3 is burst fire rather than full auto. Here is the [http://www.scribd.com/doc/29272650/MIL-R-71135-Rifle-5-56MM-M16A2E3-1992 US Army Military Specification] for the M16A2E3 from 1992 (go to page 4, and look at the fire selector section). Although calling the earlier rifle the M16A2E3 takes away the confusion, it can still correctly be called the M16A3 as it was reclassified as this, kind of like how the M16A2 was originally the M16A1E1. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:11, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::True, I guess someone just got lazy and didn't give the flat top version a new name, so the 646 and 901 are BOTH A3s. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:47, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::Editors probably made a mistake in ''that'' part because everywhere ''else'' it says automatic fire (right from the beginning). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:19, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

:Heh, and after more searching: [http://www.military-today.com/firearms/m16.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:21, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

::Like I said, the very first A3s had A2 uppers, and after that they had rails. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:17, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Put it this way, the only times it says something about not having a top rail, it doesn't. What I mean is, it always says something really vague like "full auto version of the A2", never mentioning specifics. I have not yet read somewhere that says that the A3 has a fixed carry handle, but have seen plenty that say the opposite. The problem was someone decided a long time ago that this site was for guns that are in movies only, not a gun wiki, so since the A3 is not in any civvie hands, and therefore not in any movies, it shouldn't be mentioned. All "A3"s in movies are A4s with A2 lowers, that is what the armourer used. However with the addition of newer weapons, and therefore newer entries, and the addition of games, where the guns don't really exist and therefore ARE anything, things are being added that never were before. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Mk.18 is only a military weapon, right? That means that, say, in the first Transformers movie Josh Duhamel's Mk.18 wouldn't have been a real Mk.18, but some Civvie M4 with a short barrel and such, made to look exactly the same as one. But that doesn't make it a Mk.18, however it IS listed as such. I may be wrong and it might actually be a Mk.18, but then Canadian C7-series is a better example: NO civvies have them. Period. But it still has an entry, as it is in Reality Mod, among a few others. Now we see the problem with not having an M16A3 entry: there might not be any in civvie hands, but there are some in games, like BF3, but COD4 singleplayer comes to mind as well, and I'm sure there are others. Hmm, I guess what this comes down to is we need an M16A3 listing on the M16 page. All of them should be listed, even if the only info is the name, a sentence about the weapon, and mention that it has never been in anything, otherwise we get stuff like everyone on the site getting false info about a particular weapon, and this happens. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:14, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

::::That ''is'' specific. "Full auto version of the A2" means it's externally identical to the A2, but has fully automatic. I don't see how that's vague. If you've got a credible source saying A3s are "now issued" with flat top uppers, I'd like to see it. But if you look at the pattern of M16 rifle development, it's very likely that such a modification would bear a designation other than A3 (the only two exceptions to this in the platform's history were the Air Force's 11.5" barreled XM177s and when the Army dropped the Model 777 M4 for the Model 920 M4. Josh Duhamal used an M933 in Transformers, not a Mark 18. Mark 18-type carbines with 10.3" or 10.5" barrels can be had by anyone with proper licensing. But the reason we have Mark 18 mock-ups in movies listed as Mark 18s is because, like I already pointed out, it's IMFDB policy to identify the weapon on a visual basis. If it ''looks'' like a Mark 18, we ''call it'' a Mark 18 unless some other way of concretely identifying the weapon (such as an armorer ID) comes along. Your argument about civilian acquisition is a dead end since armorers like MPM are civilians, yet have fully automatic M4s, AK-47s, M60s, and so on in their possession. The only games I've played with full auto M16A4s are CoD4 and MoH, the pages for both of which identify the rifle as an M16''A4''. If you want an A3 category added, either take a look at the [[Talk:M16_rifle_series#Do_well_really_need_to_have_an_.22A2.22_and_.22A3.22_category.3F|M16 rifle talk page to see why it was deleted]] (where MPM himself states that the M16A3 has the same upper receiver as the A2) or come to the forum and state your case as to why said category should be reinstated. But as per IMFDB policy, the M16 on this page should be classified as an A4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:14, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::As soon as my problems with registration are solved, I'll bring this discussion to the light. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::Bah. Is there any other way to contact forum administration other than through the forum? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::Leave a message on [[User:MT2008|MT2008's]] talk page about it. He's an administrator on the forum. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:01, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

== Both M16s ==
Demize confirms multiple M16s! I'm expecting the A3 and A4 obviously [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:05, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:Hmm, that's pretty cool. =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:32, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

:Now that's something I would like to take a look at in Beta :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

::He also confirmed not everything's in the Beta, but hopefully these two will be. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:22, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I see very little point in including 2 M16 models, just takes up space that could be filled with something new :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 04:52, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

::::The automatic one will probably be the starting weapon to balance it against another starting weapon, and burst fire one will probably be for everyone to use as an unlock. You see, so that to please everyone :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I gueessssss, suppose they don't have to remodel it or anything either, just change the weapon's code/animations. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:58, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

::::::I think the A4 should be the starter and the A3 should be the unlock, makes much more sense to me. The starter ARs in COD4 were the M16A4 and AK-47 and that was just fine. Or maybe you can modify a base M16 into other variants. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:09, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::::I guessed it right: Demize has confirmed that M16A3 will be the default US assault rifle for the Assault kit[http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/102776416898265088] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:00, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Gamescom trailers and official gameplay vids ==
We've got official footage for 2 weapons, one already known (MP-443), and one all-new (SCAR-H CQC with Grippod and Aimpoint optic). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDDfPxF3EFE . In the Co-Op live gameplay from the devs, one of them picks up an unknown pump action shotgun with a 4+1 capacity.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 11:06, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Nice! Wonder if SCAR-L in? Oh, and they give civilian shotguns to military again! *shakes head* Already noticed that with M1014 before. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:44, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

There isnt 2 m16 models , where do you get your info lol there is one the m16a3

== INCOMING ==

[http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/planetbattlefield.gamespy.com/images/news3/fact_sheet2.jpg *kaboom*]

EA just released the fact sheet with all the weapons/attachments/specs listed, there's the weapon page.

EDIT:[http://planetbattlefield.gamespy.com/fullstory.php?id=165281 and here's your proof]
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 13:22, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Is that M39 the Finnish Mosin-Nagant? Or is there another battle rifle that uses the M39 designation? Also, that list is missing the Groza bullpup AR that one dev caught one of the testers reloading.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 13:42, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

The M39 refers to the M14 variant used by the Marines [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_Enhanced_Marksman_Rifle (this)]. And the Groza bullpup was actually the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-91 A-91] (not the 9A-91 from BC2... Russian weapon designations are confusing)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 13:56, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Good find, kinda wish I hadn't looked at it though XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:11, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:: AHAHAHAHA, "SCAR H CQB" made my day. But at least they wrote ACOG, not ACOG Sight, nor ACOG Scope. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:::That is what FN Herstal calls it [http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=184&backPID=182&productID=10&pid_product=232&pidList=182&categorySelector=1&detail] though does it really belong in the carbines section? I would have thought it still belonged with the battle rifles. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:38, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

::::They call it CQC, C for Combat not B for Battle. But calling it CQB is still more correct than calling it simply SCAR-H, like in Modern Warfail 2, because that usually refers to SCAR-H STD, the one w/ the normal length barrel. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:47, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I see, fair enough. As you said though, at least they were slightly closer than some games. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:51, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Well, this does nothing to allay my fears about it being a generic AMURIKA V EVUL ARABS AND KOMMIES shooter. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:37, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
: Also, looks like y'all missed them calling it the M93R, rather than just the 93R like it should be. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

::A few things; first, it looks like this list is a little dated, as Demize confirmed both M16s, but even though details might have changed, I bet this is a 100% list. Second, remember this doesn't include stuff like the M320 (as it's a Gadget in terms of game), and mounted weapons. Third, I'm assuming the M39 (M14) will be semi only, as only it and the SKS are in the Battle Rifle section, with the G3 moved to Assault Rifles. Similarly, I'm betting the Glock 18 and Beretta 93R will be auto and burst only, otherwise the Glock 17 and M9 would be pretty useless. Fourth, notice that there is a P90 AND a P90TR. I'm thinking if you attach an RDS to the P90TR, it becomes the standard one, like COD4's MP5SD. Lastly, what's a T44 pistol? I did a quick search and all I got was this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/T44.jpg Oh, also, I'm totally using the M82 with irons, just for kicks :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I'm thinking the "T44" might be the sidearm for Iranian forces, like the KH2002 will be their assault rifle. I don't know what it could be referring to, though; as far as I know, Iran uses P226 copies as their standard sidearm.

This looks ''really'' suspicious to me. No G36E (as was expected from BF2 (L85 too)), no SG 550 (as was confirmed by Demize), no multiple M16 (wasn't that said by Demize?), "Battle Rifles" actually being Marksman Rifle (M39) and Semi-Automatic Carbine (SKS), several weapons being ported from BC2 (AEK-971, A-91, PP-2000, Saiga-20K, MP-412) instead of BF2 (Bizon or Vityaz, Saiga-12K) for no reason; Beretta 93R and Glock 18 are actually law enforcement automatic pistols and will overshadow regular pistols... And T44? WW2 prototype gun being put in pistols?

If this "fact" sheet was putted on [http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/ official Battlefield Blog], I would have believed it. As of now I take it with a grain of salt. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:38, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

: The sheet lists an SG553 in the carbines section. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:14, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

::That would be like someone saying: "We want M4 in BC2!" and someone responded: "There is M16 there". One weapon is assault rifle and other is carbine. They shouldn't cancel each other. Really. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:23, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

Also, how exactly do you think the "straight pull bolt" under the weapon accessories could work? Either it will be some bullshit about somehow putting a straight pull bolt on bolt actions to increase ROF which will annoy the hell out of me, or I suppose it could be putting a straight pull bolt on assault/battle rifles to increase accuracy and turn them into sort of sniper rifles. Either way, I don't like it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:32, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

T44 is what they are calling the [[Taurus Model 44]] revolver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:35, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

:Hmm, so the revolver unlocks are Russian .357 Magnum and Brazilian .44 Magnum... American .357 Magnum like Colt and S&W would have been more reasonable, honestly... But yeah, some wouldn't want revolvers in military shooters at all. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

::Sigh, more revolvers. I'm assuming that the straight pull bolt will be for snipers as opposed to assault/battle rifles, either for bolt actions to increase ROF (even though straight pulls are supposedly more tiring than turn bolts) or for the semi-auto snipers for a bit more accuracy? Teeny tiny list of machine guns, sadface. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:23, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== Weapon Reloads ==

Anybody seen the GamesCom Coop-Demo? I just noticed how the guy reloads his empty shotgun. First round into the chamber, all the following into the tube. I think they got it right this time. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 10:08, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

:I didn't see that one, but I saw the M1014 reload in the leaked alpha footage, and it does do that :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:19, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

::Tactical pistol reloads too :o --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:30, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP7A1 Alpha Gameplay ==

The amount of Alpha gameplay videos on Youtube is insane, but in one of them I did see an MP7A1. Looked like the same model used in the Medal of Honor reboot. It was only seen for a moment, so hopefully someone can add more information? [[User:Miyazawa|Miyazawa]] 22:11, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

:The MP7 is setup the same way as the MoH one, using the stock, grip, and pistol sights, but obviously has a proper empty reload. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:44, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

I have tried to add the MP7A1 on the BF3 weapon listing underneath the submachine guns but someone keeps on deleting it. I havent uploaded an image from youtube because honestly I dont know how, can someone help out with this and stop deleting this post as the weapon IS CONFIRMED. [[User:Valant]] 2:58PM, September 9, 2011 (PST)
: No, it's not. You're not allowed to post anything from the Alpha build. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:18, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

Valant here reposting MP7 gameplay, and to reply YES I CAN post because most weapons you see on page from the alpha/PAX gameshows. In fact for the most part all of the weapons should be deleted because they are from the same build. I have provided a link to show first hand footage. Once the game is released and this is fact checked, the comment I left before can be deleted. Here is the link again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuvvdBhH0r4

It's just not getting into your head, isn't it? Screencaps from non-official/leaked footage are STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. SO yeah, it's nice and all that you're linking that in the discussion, but please DO NOT edit the main page again until beta comes out. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:51, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Oh REALLY? Because last time I checked there are several screen caps and images that are of some low quality camera taking a picture of a screen DURING ALPHA! Check the muther f*****g G36C section, or The UMP45, the AK74M, the DIO KH2002, and G3A3. These are all weapons from the same build of the game and these have pages, ergo the MP7 should have its own section. Now, im off to put the post BACK UP so suck it.

:You are confusing Closed Alpha with NDA and Game Shows (Expos) intended for public. Those ones are categorised as Pre-alpha‎ (expos before Alpha) and Pre-beta (expos after Alpha). And you are just asking to get reported. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:03, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

.....reported.....really....well then if thats the case as I posted on another MP7 related discussion below Ill wait till the "official" news about it comes out
== Full Auto Carbine ==

Been reading and watching videoa and they all have the M4A1 listed as a carbine. Does anyone know if the M4A1 fires full auto, three round bursts, or a single shot when fired?

The M4A1 is a carbine that is full auto or semi, just like real life, is that wierd? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:44, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Carbines ==
What makes me really happy is they got the term Carbine right; the M4A1 is an M16 Carbine, the AKS-74U is an AK-74 Carbine, the SCAR-H CQC is a SCAR Carbine, the G36C is a G36 Carbine, the SG553 is a SG550 Carbine, and, well, you could call the A-91 an AKM Carbine I guess. That's also why the relatively short HK416 is in the Assault Rifle section and not the Carbine one: it's not a Carbine. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:52, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

:'''Trivia Information''':

:IRL in addition to Assault Rifle and Carbine category, there is also so called Sub-Carbine category (that is, shorter than Carbine). Four of the above mentioned pairs have three guns in these categories (and three of these four pairs even have additionally Automatic Rifle/Light Machine Gun variant but that's a different story). And here is the list:

:M4 Commando < M4 < M16
:AKS-74U < AK-105 < AK-74(M)
:G36C < G36K(E) < G36(E)
:SG 553 < SG 551 < SG 550

:And to which category HK416 belongs, [http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/hk416_specs.asp depends on the variant]. Quite a list, isn't it? ;)

:And while AKM didn't have official carbine (there was [http://www.red-alliance.net/forum/index.php?topic=11481.0 a prototype] and that's it), SKS can be considered one somewhat :P

:Maybe that was interesting to read :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:45, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Again... ==

What's with the people using this "fact sheet" to clutter the main page with weapon titles. Can't they wait for more substantial material before adding stuff? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:02, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

:Agreed; pages that are just lists of weapons without pictures or really any info look terrible, let's wait for them to show up. The people who care can find it here on the talk page, or Google :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:20, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

:Leaked info is not allowed, and entries with no pics or info aren't very much liked either. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:29, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ Precisely. Official artwork, renders, graphical announcements (like that for Physical Warfare Pack, or Battlelog), screenshots, trailers, gameplay videos; screenshots made from official trailers and gameplay videos. All those things will do. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:50, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

==UMP==

you can see it in a video from nvidia, the player to the right of the interview, you can see him using a UMP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiCNdEYCtgs

unkown what calibre, but im just gonna assume its UMP45 --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 06:38, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

==HK416==

another video from nvidia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUyIIIKta44

if you pause at 0:30 it looks like the HK416--[[User:Sike|Sike]] 06:42, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

:M27 IAR, to be specific. Based on the HK416, yes, but not a normal HK416. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:25, 21 August 2011 (CDT)
:: Well the Hk146 is in, it appeared on the battlelog stat page. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 09:25, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

== Weird Weapon ==

What is that weapon the guy starts using at 2:24, in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiCNdEYCtgs ? It looks like an AS VAL, but that optic setup is weird. I wish they sticked to the real life russian optics, instead of creating rail-attaching versions. E.g.: The PK-AS (russian holographic) is actually offset to the left side of the gun, not aligned with the bore or mounted on a rail.[[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 08:20, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

:Maybe it's quite hard to get hands on real Russian weapons in Sweden, so work is done with what's available... Oh, and PK-AS isn't holographic sight, it's reflex sight. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:56, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

:It might be the VSS. You can use iron sights on a sniper rifle so they might allow you to use reflex and holographic sights as well.

:There's no VSS, there's a VAL, but this guy's an Engineer, so it doesn't matter either way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:14, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

== Fact Sheet ==

People, while it has been confirmed that the fact sheet is indeed official, it's also been confirmed that it '''IS NOT A FINAL LIST''', it only shows the equipment available '''SO FAR'''. So don't worry, I'm sure many more equipment options will come (I hope these include an MP5). [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:34, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

:Well, Demize wouldn't confirm whether the Karkand guns will be able to be used in standard BF3, but the way he said it seemed to hint they might, so I'm betting we'll see the MP5 and PP-19 Bizon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:26, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

Gonzaga that's pretty much false hope , because there not going to release an official fact sheet and then add "many more guns" its not even wishful thinking its just stupid.and Alex when somethings is unconfirmed that doesn't mean its automatically going to be in the game, and if its anything like bfbc2 which it is, the guns will be seperate like the Vietnam expansion.

: First, no need to call me stupid. And second, do you really think they can't add more stuff to the game 3 months away from the release? Not even the beta is out! Plus, by equipment I didn't necessarily mean more weapons. I guess you thought so because my example was a weapon.[[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:03, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

I did not call you stupid, I called your idea stupid.You really think that there going too add tonnes more "equipment" after they've released an official statement than that is stupid.

:What's stupid here is you not signing your posts. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:06, 27 August 2011 (CDT)

::Lol owned :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:47, 27 August 2011 (CDT)

== SKS has a plastic stock ==
Demize confirmed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:36, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

== Battlefield 3 full weapons list ==
It is up on official [http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/complete-list-of-battlefield-3-weapons/ bf3 blog].

:That's not the official blog. As it says in the description, it's a fan site. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:21, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, but it is news of an actual official announcement. --[[User:Nomad175|Nomad175]] 00:00, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:::The announcement was leaked, meaning that the information it contains has no place on the main page. Until we get official imagery of each weapon, they should not be added to the main page. Just makes everything look a bit messy and half-arsed if you ask me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:49, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== About SVD ==

So were there any news from Demize or some official material released that confirmed that the magazine for SVD was fixed or not? Should it have been changed to NDM-86 on the main page? Only seen it in leaked Alpha (which ''could'' have been a temporal state, considering that SVU in BC2 had proper magazine (SVD and SVU use the same one), and this one probably ported from MoH for testing purposes). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:35, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

== Battleblog #8 ==
Sig 553 and Strela/Igla launcher confirmed in a post on the official Battlefield blog [http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2011/08/25/battleblog-8-build-your-weapon-of-choice.aspx] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:46, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:Heh, suppressive fire with carbine :) And the modelled launcher is [[SA-7 Grail|Strela-2]] (NATO reporting name: SA-7 Grail) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:22, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:: Thought as much, was the disk-shape thingy at the front that gave it away. <3 the weapon customisation that BF3 will offer though, gonna be awesome. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:46, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, the primary indicator for Strela-2 is that, errr, under-barrel thingy with tube-and-spike shape while every other model is ball-and-tube. Here is a nice chart: [http://blueprintbox.com/watermark-gif.php?img=./data/media/384/sa-14-strela-gremlin.gif]
:::And yeah, customisation is great \o/ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:22, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

::::That's the bit I meant, forgive my extremely technical description XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:06, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::Oh, heh, right. Thought you meant the launcher tube itself :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:47, 26 August 2011 (CDT)

The incoming weapon modification options seem very exciting....lots of options to tailor your weapon to your specifics. However, the only detail about the blog that keeps me sceptical is the fact that you need to unlock every feature for each weapon individually. Knowing that from MW2 that would mean hours and hours and hours of playing with just one weapon to finally unlock the parts needed to tailor it to your specifics, only to then unlock the next weapon you've been longing for and then you need to start again from scratch with that weapon. Rather frustrating IMO. Would a better idea to make the modification parts a global unlock, so that once you unlock say supressors with an assault rifle, it counts for ALL other assault rifles too...same with LMG's, Pistols, Shotgungs, etc. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 03:05, 26 August 2011 (CDT)

== "T44" ==
Found it; 2nd video, 21 seconds in. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:13, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Link please? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:25, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

OOPS, sorry, here:
http://ob-game.blogspot.com/2011/08/battlefield-3-three-videos-from-pax.html
[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:57, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

ummm you're wrong thats an mp412 , the scope also looks russian which gives it away

:Actually it doesn't look like the Mp412 at all or the T44, it looks a little different, take a look at this image I snapped of it
: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/mp412orcoltpython.jpg/
: To me it almost looks like a Colt Python from Black Op's, notice the iron sights, front and rear (the white markings) and the silhouette of the barrel and cylinder as well as the positioning of the grip, it's hard to say but my vote is towards a Colt Python. DICE did say they were going to add Faction specific weapons and if you look a little earlier the guy was using a Stinger. I'd think a Colt Python .357 Magnum would go nicely as a US analogue to the Russian MP412 .357 Magnum. Also to the Scope, it could just be a Russian style scope attached to a US weapon, they did say that the customization was huge so it's a possibility [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:47, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Its an mp412 , if it was a python it would have grooves down the barrel housing which it doesn't its solid like the mp412 also I noticed the break action latch near the iron sight, which also corresponds to the mp412 , the python does not have a break open design. *Edit* also the colt python is not in the game.

:The devs didn't say there isn't any other revolver in the game, thus shouldn't you, Persistent Mr. Anonymous. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:17, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:Well, it's NOT a 412, but it could be a Python, some S&W, the Raging Bull, I don't know. The lighting's wierd, but it looks stainless to me, which would be good if the MP412 is black. The SKS, which is synth, has been spotted with an EOTech, so unlocking American optics for Russian guns and vice versa is confirmed. I'm thinking every optic, with the exception of the 6x and 12x sniper scopes, can be used on anything. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:33, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Ok, if you cant indentify that gun, then you shouldn't really be on the site to be honest, because you can clearly tell that's a mp412 the colt python has barrel housing grooves this doesnt it solid like an mp412 , you can also see the break action latch is,colt pythons dont have this because they are not break reloaders. *Edit* and how can you say that it is stainless? its clearly black with a synthetic grip.
:In that case, by your rationale you should leave right now. Ignoring everything else about the gun, look at the muzzle end. This pistol has a rounded barrel with a raised rib. The Mp412 does not. Also, the locking indents on the cylinder are wrong for a MP412, where they are small cuts coming from the rear of the cylinder, rather than the more traditional ones shown here. The part of the frame that meets the rear of the cylinder is also wrong for a MP412, which would have a "step" rather than a smooth ramp where it widens to the width of the cylinder. Due to the motion blur ghosting on this image it is really hard to tell anything about it so we will just have to wait and see. Also, sign your posts and stop being so condescending. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:22, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Also, just noticed that in the same clip the person in front of you has a G36C, so that can go ahead and be confirmed, along with the Stinger for that matter. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:47, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
[[File:Battlefield 3 Tourney PAX Prime Day 2 Wrap Up.mp4 000021722.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[File:Battlefield 3 Tourney PAX Prime Day 2 Wrap Up.mp4 000021255.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

:Hmm, these are official videos, not DICE ones, but offical meaning by a site/company etc; should they be added to the main page? It's kind of a grey area. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:25, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::PAX and NVIDIA are definitely can be considered official source just as E3 and IGN. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:40, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

ok lets just leave it as the t44/mp412 for now, if we cant agree on what gun it is, then theres no point arguing senselessly we'll have to wait until the game comes out to properly identify it --[[User:Lukewilliams010|Lukewilliams010]] 14:10, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

==M4 and M4A1==

Was just browsing through twitter when i noticed something.

http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/108437158804717568

both the M4 and M4A1 is in. like how the the M16A3 and A4 are in. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 10:54, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Now that's amuses me because I had ''exact'' the same thoughts. Seems I wasn't alone xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:10, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

::Seems to me more that BF3 will have much more weapons than we thought. Well, let's just pick one up and kick some asses with it :) --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:12, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

I think its pretty cool they are getting multiple variants for each gun. Heres hoping for an AK-47 unlock.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 12:06, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

On the same twitter he makes a point of saying that the M4A1 was designed for special forces whereas the standard weapon that would be found being used by Marines is the M4. My spidey sense is telling me that the standard weapons will be the burst M4 and M16A4, and they will be upgradable to full auto M4A1 and M16A3 (flat-top receiver won't tally and the number will make no sense to the layman but whatever). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:46, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Nope, he already said the full auto ones are default. But I'd figure in SP we're more likely to see the burst ones. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:31, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

::SP: M4 for regular Marines, M4A1 for USSOCOM units, something like that. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:50, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

:In any case, it's awesome they added variants of many weapons. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:46, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

::Indeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:28, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Can't remember where I saw it from, probably from Battlefield wiki but I remember seeing that the weapon variants were based on each Classes Kit selection. So for example, take the Assault class, as it's being merged with the Medic Class, Players would have the option to equip either a Grenade Launcher of carry around a Medkit. So for example, an M16A3 could be default setting with a Medkit as a piece of equipment but the M16A4 is used when attaching a grenade launcher. But that's just my theory [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:37, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

::It's not really merging, they're just going back to how they had it in BF2142 (Assault = Medic + Assault, Recon = Sniper + Special Forces, Engineer = Anti-tank + Engineer and Support = um, Support, his main "thing" being his extra droppable things like a portable shield and a sentry gun). In 2142 every Assault had a Medkit since you don't want to give your medics the option of being even more useless, the optional item for the Assault class was the defib. The fastest way to get TK'd as Assault was to have someone realise you weren't carrying one. I imagine this one will be the same, Support will always have an ammo box and assault will always have a health box. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:35, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

==PWP Trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ukxgldpOo&feature=feedu

warning, containts footage from operation metro they some players may find offensive. --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 08:58, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:That is... ''SKS''? Reminds me of AK-47 in MW2 *sadface*
:Another thing noted: incorrect reticles for M145 and PKS-07 are still in... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:27, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Remember though DICE did say that you can "customize" your weapon, that might be a SKS just heavily modified by the player rather than appearing as the "actual" weapon. Who know's if we're lucky, the SKS might be featured as standard in it's default config [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:::As much as I would want it to be, I doubt that what DICE meant by customization. BF3 so far doesn't seem to have customization as elaborate as, for example, [[Ghost Recon: Future Soldier]]. Thus this tacticool SKS is probably the only one *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:44, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:"DAO-12" -.-... OMG! What the heck is their deal with the DAO-12? Can't they just call it how it supposed to be called?! --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:01, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::DICE seems to have obsession with this "designation" as it tracks way back from Battlefield 2 (2005) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:16, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

DAO-12 was used because of a legal conflict with Armsel using the Striker name, it became a fan favorite so they kept the name. --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:09, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
i asked Demize on twitter and he replied saying it was a homage to BF2 --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 14:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:Exactly, and we all know how bad most gamers are at identifying weapons, the MW3 crowd widely believed the ACR was a SCAR because the ACR was tan (in MW2 the SCAR was tan and the ACR was this ugly grey colour, and now the ACR is tan). If they renamed it Striker a lot of BF players would think it was a different gun :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:20, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Er, that doesn't really sound like a bad thing :/ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:29, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

i asked demize about it, and he said they named it the DAO-12 as a homage to BF2 --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 07:57, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== M39 EMR confirmed ==
I asked demize if there was an m14 battle rifle and he replied ,and said there is a M39 EMR so that can now be added to the weapons list.--[[User:Lukewilliams010|Lukewilliams010]] 16:07, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:He also said SG 550 would be in, official blog showed SG 553. And SKS is "SKS". We need official ''illustrated'' material. As soon as it is available - go ahead, put it in. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:29, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yup, if we don't have a picture, don't add it, even if it's not leaked. It's not like we won't have everything up pretty soon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:53, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1/M16 Gas block question ==

I've seen quite a few topics concerning the lack of a visible gas block on the M4's and M16's in a number of shooters, and I was wondering if it was possible that the gas blocks could be either low-profile gas blocks that were either not visible or were actually under the RAS, or if the gas blocks were actually integrated into an after-market RAS. It seems odd to me that developers would repeatedly make the same mistake over different games in different franchises.

:It's possible to just remove the front sight without removing the gas block on a standard M16 rifle and M4 but it'd be a little exposed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:23, 10 September 2011 (CDT)

::Do you mean with a hacksaw? Aren't the gas block and front sight a single piece of metal? It is however possible to get a low profile gas block (relatively easy replacement) that only extends above the barrel to the height of the gas tube plus a few mm, so that certain free floating RIS systems can be mounted over the top of it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:39, 10 September 2011 (CDT)

:::That was my question; with all the Military consultants they have coming in and looking at this stuff, I'd always assumed that they had just modeled an after market RIS and low-profile gas-block.
--[[User:Hominis Solus|Hominis Solus]] 21:58, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:I wonder why developers won't just model Flat Top Mounts\Risers on the sights for M4s\M16s ? That's how the problem is solved IRL, including in U.S. Military. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:16, 11 September 2011 (CDT)
::I'd imagine that most modellers don't realise that the front sight is also the gas block, so they see no problem in removing it for aesthetic/gameplay purposes. 99% of gamers probably don't realise either. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:15, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Both the modellers and the gamers doesn't supposed to care about this kind of things, only people like us, it can concern. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:31, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:It was well after I got into learning about firearms and such that I found out the front sight (gas block) and stock tube (buffer tube) are required for the AR series to function, so you can't remove either pretty much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:53, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

::It's true that the stock front sight post is also the same piece of metal as the gas block, but you can remove them so long as you put a new gas block on.
--[[User:Hominis Solus|Hominis Solus]] 21:58, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I meant you can't just take it off :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:30, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== A-91 ==
Confirmed to be the more modern 5.56mm version by Demize. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:08, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Guillotine Teaser Trailer ==
Anyone else seen it? There's a mortar that the player-character uses to send up flares (I think they called them illumination rounds) and I think the player-character also uses a Mk. 17 with some sort of 4x scope. Sorry, I'm still fairly new to this. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:27, 12 September 2011 (CDT)
:I think the mortar is an M224, and yes it was a Mk.17 with an ACOG (magazine looked a bit small in the mag-well, but could be the angle as could only be seen when climbing the wall). Also, it looks like the guy who is stabbed at the end of the video is carrying a G3A3 with an ACOG. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:35, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

== M16 series reload animation ==

I'm fairly new to this site, though I've been following it closely to see the development of the firearms that will appear in Battlefield 3.
I've been reading that a lot of you guys are expecting an accurate portrait of the M16 series reload animation in the game. I just wanted to ask how do you properly reload an M16 in real life? It is my understanding that when the rifle is empty, you load it by pulling the charging handle. But when there is a bullet still in the chamber you just need to press the bolt catch. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I just want to get this clarified since I've never been able to understand the reload mechanic of the M16.
[[User:Santos|Santos]] 01:14, 16 September 2011 (CDT)
:With the exception of loading the gun for the first time or clearing a jam, you never need to touch the charging handle. If you are reloading from a partial magazine, there will be a round in the chamber so all you need to do is drop out the magazine and push a new one in. When you you empty the magazine in an M16 type weapon the bolt locks back automatically, so you drop out the magazine, put a new one in, and then all you need to do is push the bolt release on the left side to let the bolt go forwards (you can also push the forward assist if you feel like it). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:20, 16 September 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the third reason you might is if you just picked it up off the ground, to check it's still mechanically sound. Though that sorta falls under clearing a jam. Edit: Also you might part-pull it on drawing it if you're into brass checks, though given how often FPS characters change weapons habitually brass-checking on draw would probably indicate a very short memory. "Yep, still there from ten seconds ago, how bout that." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:09, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

You could rack the charging handle if you like, but the proper way to reload and empty M16 type weapon is to just slap the bolt release. I call it the ping pong paddle. A lot of games forgets about little things like reloads for weapons [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:02, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

== Who removed the MP7!?! ==

Okay, who took away the MP7 from the submachine gun catergory? I spent a whole 20 minutes adding that section of the article and some guy just deleted it. Why? It was really in the game and not in any way spammy or vestigial. Whoever took away put it back. Come on, I don't want to remake the whole thing.

THere are NO official images of it. And no official video footage has featured it. Don't post images from the Alpha --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:20, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

But the fact remains that it has been seen in the game, and it was already on the page before I made the changes.

Why can't I use the Alpha? I don't know if there is or is not a rule regarding alpha version footage and stuff. I thought the purpose of this site was to chronicle what weapons were used in what movies/games/TV/Anime. If I have evidence that the MP7 is in BF3, why does it matter whether or not it was from the Alpha or official footage? The image I used was from a gameplay video I saw on Youtube. Does this mean no one can use their own gameplay videos?

:No, it means that you have to wait for officially released material or for the game to actually come out. This applies to leaked gameplay footage, images from leaked betas, dubious leaked information in general (eg the MW3 leaks from Kotaku) unapproved on-set photos, leaked movie footage like that infamous cut of ''X-Men Origins: Wolverine'', and so on. Building an article is not a race, if we have to wait to confirm something is official, that's what we do. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

I suppose that makes sense, I'm gonna keep that in mind when making contributions in the future.

I thought anything to do with the Alpha was under an NDA anyway? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:31, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, if you look at the screencap he posted the guy who leaked it deliberately blacked out his own name. Obviously knew he shouldn't have been recording it and posting it in the first place. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

Okay, for the last frickin' time. Please DO NOT add weapons that are not in any official gameplay vids/trailers/screenshots, until they are.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:02, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

@ HashiriyaR32: Hey! I was also someone who tried adding the section of the MP7. Its in the alpha videos but to be fair, so is every freaking gun that is on this page! The only videos that are available are the ones from the alpha. Seriously take the amount of time it takes to delete the post and go onto youtube and see for yourself! In fact, after posting this I will repost the MP7 with a link to the youtube video...Also FYI I happen to love this website and for all it stands for and I try to monitor several different games to make sure the info is correct, I would never want to add something that didnt exist in a videogame/movie. Valant

:What? Nothing on the page is from the alpha, everything's from screenshots, trailers, concept art, or official videos, like EA Pwned, IGN, etc. If you don't believe me, give me an example. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:52, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

@Valant, its as simple as this. To take part in the Alpha you had to sign a non disclosure agreement. That means that any footage that you have seen was illegally distributed. Until guns show up in an official (and legal) source, they shouldn't be listed here. The MP7 may very well be a weapon in the game, but the point is that at this point that information has not been publicly release, to say nothing of the fact that legal screenshots cannot be posted on here. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:11, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

:Right, and as soon as the Beta is out, we can add everything, it's only a week-ish, and besides, WE all know the MP7 & others are in, and they can be mentioned on the talk page, just the official page can't have it. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:39, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Then I should just delete this whole page then shouldnt I? Because again every weapon we are seeing IS NOT CONFIRMED! There is no beta released and only Alpha videos....Seriously this is bullshit
:The difference is that all the other weapons are from material that was released by EA, or from footage that they allowed to be shot (The images from the G36C section are from an interview with one of the developers IIRC) as opposed to the video you posted which was illegal made and distributed by someone breaking the NDA they signed. As you seem unable to grasp this, just wind your neck in for a week or so until the Beta is released, and then it can be posted with LEGALLY obtained confirmation images. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:15, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

If posting info from a breach of NDA is the main reason than I can understand that. Then I shall wait for the "official" information to be released.
== G3A3 and UMP.45 ==
The weapons can be seen in these videos from GameSpot in the Tokyo Game Show 2011.
Though it's cam footage you can clearly see the pick-up icon of the weapons.

Someone should work their magic and add those to the page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0M7_3wENw Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsI9Vsv5wE Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arOhTIaeGGY Part 3

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 12:59, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

:I can have it down in about 20 minutes. --[[User:Samael527|Samael527]]

:I would imagine that if it is cam footage it has likely not been officially release and is against copyright, so probably shouldn't have caps on here. You can get a shot of the G3A3 from the end of the guillotine trailer though. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:05, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

::I added the two weapons on the page. Since the videos were not leaked but released by a reputable game journalism/review site (Gamespot.com) it should be okay, right? If they weren't allowed to release it Gamespot wouldn't have done so. I looked around and other gaming websites are posting the footage as well [http://www.gametrailers.com/video/tgs-11-battlefield-3/721062]. I'm pretty new to IMFDB, so is the stuff I saw in the gameplay okay to post? --[[User:Samael527|Samael527]]

::Similary to E3 with IGN, PAX with NVIDIA, TGS with GameSpot definitely can be considered official source. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:53, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

== M1911 Confirmed ==

http://gunclub.ea.com/us/intel/blog/battlefield3-weapon-unlock

For being an EA gunclub member you get an M1911 :P --Joey1666

Pic here: http://web-vassets.ea.com/Assets/Richmedia/Gun-Club/images/bf3-gun-unlock.jpg --[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

:Not too sure exactly what pistol they have based this on though. It has slanted cocking serrations on the slide (rear only), non target sights, beavertail grip safety and a rounded burr hammer. Closest thing I can think of is the early version of the [[1911#M-45_MEUSOC|M-45 MEUSOC]], which are a old USGI 1911 frame with a [[1911#Springfield_Armory_M1911_-_A1|Sprinfield Armoury]] slide, a rounded hammer, a beavertail grip safety and Pachmayr rubber grips (along with some other less obvious improvements). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:58, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, I'm pretty sure it IS the original version of the MEU. Also, you missed the Springfield 3-hole trigger. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:24, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

:Gun Club? Looks like EA is messing up again: http://gunclub.ea.com/us/mygunclub/rewards
:They haven't even fixed the stat tracking :S --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:12, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

== Battlefield 3 Open Beta ==

So, EA confirmed the PC/X360/PS3 BETA startup. Begining 27.09 for those who have MoH 2010 Tier One Edition, and 29.09 for the rest.
Good opportunity to test the game and get some guns updated :). ~ GumBoy 21.09.2011 16.07 (CET)

:Actually, the early access is open for people with the Medal of Honor Limited Edition as well, not just Tier One. It's also for people who pre-ordered before a certain cutoff, but I can't remember the specifics. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:10, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

::Can't wait for this, hope we get a different map this time, Operation Metro was good but not great. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:37, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Caspian Border would be great :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:06, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

== PP2000 Spotted ==
Battlelog pics here: http://www.battlefieldlog.com/2011/09/battlefield-3-beta-battlelog.html

Pic here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pdUIBRNHpXo/Tn4uZQaayQI/AAAAAAAAAdw/PVmts2hVNjU/s1600/battlelog-4.jpg

:What's the pistol, what's the shotgun? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:09, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::I believe the handgun is a Glock variant, whilst the shotgun is Benelli M3 Super 90. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 08:02, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:::I saw the PP2000 in action at Eurogamer Expo, looked pretty good. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:16, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Hmm, I never saw it before. The shotgun is the 870 MCS and the pistol is the Glock 17. If you look at the page, he's level 0 with no XP, so these are the first unlocks, which makes sense given what they are: a shotgun, a pistol that isn't faction-based that's similar to the M9 and MP443, and a PDW. Also, now that the PP2000 has a stock we won't have any more stockless guns, specifically stockless guns with scopes... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:08, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Hmm, the magazine tube is rather short for M870 MCS. Which would mean it is rather regular variant of M870 with pistol grip and full stock. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:49, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::No, the MCS is modular, hence the name, it just has the 4 round tube as standard, with the 7 round one as an attachment. This is the MCS: http://www.kiesler.com/shop/ProductImages/Model870MCS_PartSLG.jpg [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:57, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::The magazine tube in MCS is supposed to have the same length as the barrel as can be seen here: [http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/Firearms/Shotguns%20Pump/MCS.aspx Remington Model 870 Modular Combat Shotgun (MCS)]. Thus the 3+1 MCS would have the same 10" barrel. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:23, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::::I understand it's supposed to, but it's still an MCS, just not assembled properly or something. If you don't like it, just use the extended tube attachment, I know I will be, and Demize confirmed (how many times have I written those two words now?) all the extended mag attachments are visible, like the MP7s 40 round magazine, or this shotgun. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:50, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::If that's so... Okey, an oddly assembled MCS ¯\(°_o)/¯
:::::::::P.S. I didn't count how many times you have written those two words D: --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:02, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::LOL! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:08, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::::::Demize confirmed that Alex says 'Demize confirmed' a lot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:00, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::::::::::::[http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/hr/im-metal-hs-2000-e.html XD] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:12, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

==ACR?==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coOHjF4_apI&feature=channel_video_title

Magpul Masada/ ACR?

At 0:36, the handguard and flashhider look very similar to that of the ACR

:I think it might be the SG 553, also has a similar flashhider. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:07, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::Agree, it is the SG 553. Can tell by the design of the rail system, shape of the receiver and the fact that it has a smooth curve to the top of the stock rather than an adjustable cheek riser. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:14, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

I also see the M320 Launcher at 0:41, so thats one more launcher for the page [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:09, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, what a song choice :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:12, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:Whine, whine, whine. No game is good enough for you people. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:41, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::Not game - song >:O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:49, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

::Yay, finally can see the M320 mounted instead of standalone :D And yeah, I agree that's the 553. Oh, and what do you mean "you people"? Lol ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:05, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

:::Sorry, I thought you were complaining about the game. I was just joking when I said that. *rolls eyes* - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:44, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

== NDA for Beta ==

OK, from what I'm hearing the Beta is going to be subject to an NDA, just like the Alpha. This may just be for the early access and may be rescinded once it goes public, or it may be for the whole thing.

What this means is that we can't post info or shots from the Beta build until it is rescinded. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:02, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

:[http://twitter.com/#!/zh1nt0/status/115781634879524864 Disregard.] I screwed up, again. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:15, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

::Haha :) That's good news [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:18, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

== G17C modelled after G17 ==

I just talked to a DICE dev on Steam, and he told me the reason they modelled the G17C after a regular G17 it's to save prestanda so the game can run as smoothly as possible.
So that's why is missing those compesators "holes" on the slide. And the reason they decided to still call it a G17C, is because is only a minor detail. They probably have more relevant things to fix, than changing the correct name of a weapon. edit: forgot to sign [[User:Santos|Santos]] 03:46, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:That's understandable, given the crazy graphics and everthing else this game it running. If they don't change it we'll note it as incorrect on the main page, but note that it was intentionally left out; if they do know the correct difference between the C and standard, but needed to do for technical reasons, I'm happy. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 30 September 2011 (CDT)

::But someone could state in the main page, that it was left there intentionally due to some other and more important things to worry about in the development of the game. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 03:46, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

::I guess that proves that Frostbite 2 Engine is much more complicated and difficult to mod than Refractor 2 Engine. To fix weapon's name in Battlefield 2 one needed a mere Notepad ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:57, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:::That might well not change, since the config files will have weapon names in plain text that can be replaced (unless the names are actually images or something). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:49, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:I think it's stupid what the guy from DICE said: "''We modeled the gun after the regular G17 so the game would run faster...''" Huh? So if the gun is actually a 100% G17, why call G17C? Am I missing something here? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 04:10, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

::Modelling the holes ''would'' require they put an inside surface on the barrel, but I can't see how an engine that features buildings falling into hundreds of pieces of high-detail rubble would be screwed over by that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:47, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

== Corrected some information ==

I went through and fixed some things. There is a Korean M16 that has 4 firing modes and the shotgun in Op Gullotine is a Remington 870 which you can tell by looking at the rear sight. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:23, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:It has four? Cool, didn't know that. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:41, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

== Lack of weapon variety ==

Theres so many AK and M4 style weapons but no real variety, wheres the steyr, uzi and such.
The snipers are pretty much useless after the first two so why change ?
Like 3 AK styled assault rifles ?
Am i missing the point because it seems Mw3 has a much better weapon variety.
When i unlocked the SkS it takes 4 bullets to kill. That's double what the other two took even though they're the same calibre. - Joey1666

:Devs are lazy. Quite a bunch of unlocks are derivatives of starting weapons. There are so many European weapons that could be put as unlocks, but nooooo! Maybe DICE are saving for DLCs? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:: Yeah when they said 10 times the unlocks, who knew they meant dogtags and pistols with new attachments. And we have to unlock the same attachments for every other gun over and over. Whats with the lack of guns ? :/ And Some weapons like the m16 take 6 bullets to kill... the ump takes 7 from my experience. So why even bother using these weapons when i can have a sniper that 2 hit kills with a RDS. The beta has dissapointed me. --[[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

:::Maybe the game will have a "Hardcore" mode like the Modern Warfere games. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:51, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Always fun when people complain about balance before the balance has had any meaningful time to settle. Tomorrow people will be complaining half these things are totally overpowered when they figure out how to use them properly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:34, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:::: Im not complaining about balance, if AR's take 6 hits to kill, i dont mind ill stick to my battle rifle. Just wish there was more variety is all. - Joey1666

:::::Well, from trying the PS3 beta it seemed all my weapons took ~6 hits to kill while all their weapons killed me instantly. Nothing like repeatedly being murdered by a spawncamper with, of all the goddamn things in the world, a UMP. >:( [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:23, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::All of the 5.56mm (and 9mm) weapons do 25 damage at point blank, making them 4 hit kill, and start dropping after about 20 feet, so 5 at midrange seems better, but could be 6, I can't see how far you're shooting. Also, all the 7.62mm (and .45) guns do 33.4 damage at point blank. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Well, I hope they fix the damage, from what I'm reading it's pretty stupid right now. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:35, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::: Personnally I like the fact that there are many AK & AR15 style firearms in it, and for that you have to unlock the attachements for each gun, I don't see a problem there, you just have to use the guns if you really want them. --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 12:11 October 2 2011 (CDT)

:::: Yeah i dont mind unlocking the same attachments over and over its just that they said there's 10 times the unlocks and not the same unlock 10 times however the amount of attachments is a nice touch. I just wish there was more weapons is all. - Joey1666

There, I removed all Kalashnikov and Stoner weapons and thats what is left, why are you guys complaining? The weapon selection is good. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:04, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

G3A3
AN-94
KH2002
AEK-971
F2000
AS VAL

Carbines (Engineer)

G36C
SCAR-H CQC
A-91
SG553

Machine Guns (Support)

M249E2
M60
M240
6P41
QYJ 88

Sniper Rifles (Recon)

SVD (RU)
M40A5
SV98
M98B
M82A3 (not in MP)

Battle Rifles (Recon)

M39 EMR
SKS

Sub-Machine Guns (All Kit)

P90TR
MP7A1
UMP45
PDR
PP2000

Shotguns (All Kit)

870 MCS
M1014
USAS-12
Striker

Pistols (All Kit)

M9 (US)
MP443 (RU)
G17
M-45
MP412
T44
93R
G18

Once the main game comes out, we'll all see the diversity, alot of the weapons in the Beta are mostly there for testing purposes, I haven't even seen anyone unlock ALL the weapons yet in the Beta so I'm not sure how many exist there. Plus we might also see more weapon diversity in the Singleplayer [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:12, 2 October 2011 (CDT)
:To add on to my reply, I should also mention that while yes I feel a little disappointed that they didn't add some other "common" weapons like a traditional MP5 or some other weapons like certain Pump Action Shotguns, it doesn't really phase me too much, because from what I've seen thus far they've pretty much nailed some of the roles appriopriately. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:23, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:: Ok so ive done a bit of research, veteran gives you one extra weapon, Co-op gives you 6 extra weapons and the first expansion gives you 10 weapons.... thats 17 more weapons. I feel more comfortable now :) Not only that but theres plans for more expansions :) http://mp1st.com/2011/10/02/leaked-weapon-list-for-battlefield-3-back-to-karkand-dlc/ - Joey1666

::In realistic terms 9mm subguns and indeed subguns in general have fallen out of favour since the 80s / 90s and largely replaced by 5.56mm carbine rifles in their traditional roles as bad guys started wearing body armour. From what I've heard, neither the UMP or the MP7 did anything like as well as their older brother. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:28, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:Not quite right. The co-op and veteran weapons are among the list we have now, only the Back To Karkand expantion give new weapons.

== Something that someone should suggest to the Battlefield Twitter ==

I don't have a Twitter so I would appreciate if someone did this for me. I want a option where I can set my spawn prefences. Right now I'm using the UMP 45 and each time I spawn, I set it to 2 round burst and turn off the tac light till I need it. I would like if I can set an option that I spawn the way I want and not full auto. Most of the time I don't use full auto unless its a machine gun. Ghost Recon had this option and I liked it. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:26, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

== Excited ==

Im excited that this game will be more realistic than most others. I like the fact we will also be able to use selector switches. Did I hear right? The UMP-45 has a two round burst mode? I wasn't aware the UMP had a burst mode. I always thought it had Semi and auto.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:It can have a semi, 2-round burst, auto trigger group option. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:48, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:Duh, that's what manufacturer's sites for ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:08, 3 October 2011 (CDT)
:[http://www.heckler-koch.de/HKWebText/detailPara/1926/82/4/20/213 UMP on H&K's European site]
:[http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/ump_specs.asp UMP on H&K's US site]

H&K is usually pretty good about having burst option trigger packs. You just don't hear about it very often because in most movies and television shows, the selector is always set to rock n roll.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 18:22, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==
http://www.enterbf3.com/viewtopic.php?t=4707&sid=91faa55311d7c875027fba7bd657d6fb

A whole bunch of leaked info, from the game files I believe. The working names for some SP missions, and all the Co-op and MP maps too, as well as the unique to BTK weapon list. Note that they incorrectly call the HK53 an MP5, even though it actually was called HK53 in BF2 :confused face: As of now it is unknown whether these will carry over to the standard game.

ARs

-L85A2

-FAMAS

Carbines

-QBZ-95B

-HK53

MGs

-QBB-95

-MG36

Sniper Rifles

-L96

-QBU-88

SMG

-PP-19

Shotgun

-Jackhammer

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:33, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:LOL, Jackhammer is back. That was the only prototype gun in BF2 xD
:'''@Alex''' HK53 was the carbine for Euro Force's Spec Ops class. Whether MP5 was the submachine gun for USMC's Anti-Tank class ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:08, 3 October 2011 (CDT)
:'''Edit:''' Ah, I've read the thread. There are probably going to be both weapons in the DLC \o/

::Sure would love to see the FAMAS. I was secretly hoping for the XM8 to return, but I guess you can't get everything. [[user:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 11:40, 3 October 2011

:::The XM8 did return, it's called the G36. They just didn't put it inside a silly plastic model spaceship. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:19, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::Well said. I have to agree you on that, I prefer the actual G36 rather than the 'uber-futuristic-tacticool' plastic prototype that is... wait, was... wait it didn't even leave the prototype stages... well anyways, that is the xm8 --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 12:23, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

== .44 Magnumn, M60, USAS-12 and Claymore gameplay ==

Found some videos of the Claymore and Revolver in action, looks like the T-44 is just called .44 Magnum any idea what kind of revolver it is? Also M60E4 is seen in one vid with a 200 round capacity and USAS-12 with a 7 round box mag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLW7WcIv_gA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExvIOmviDgw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 16:06, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:It's a [[Taurus Model 44]]. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:28, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:I guess DICE followed IW's example. They named Colt Anaconda simply ".44 Magnum" before. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:35, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

::I'm liking the new .44 Magnum from what Videos I've seen so far. Up close it seems to behave just like how a .44 Magnum should. At short-close range (10 or less feet) it seems to kill in one shot to the upper chest/head but further distances (up to say 30-40 feet) seem to kill in 2 shots to the body or one to the head. Plus with addition of a Scoped version, I can see this being the ideal "Mini-Sniper". I think the way there going about it is the MP412 is the better option up close while the .44 Mag is better at range. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 07:28, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== HK416 ==

I was reading the description of the HK416 on the main page and there is something I don't quite understand.
In the main page it states that the weapon in-game has 3 firing modes; semi, 3-round burst and auto and that there aren't many Stoner lower receivers that support 3 firing modes. But isn't the Stoner platform manufactured by KAC? And why is it being use on a HK manufactured weapon? And if that is the case, then shouldn't it be pointed out as custom HK416?

And my other question is about the licensing of the weapons. Since there are other HK weapons that goes by their correct names like the MP7A1, G36C, M27 IAR and M320. Why would they license those particular weapons and not the HK416, making DICE name it M416? I think is most likely a misunderstanding rather than a copyright issue.

Please correct me here if I'm wrong. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 01:24, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:Devs are hell-bent on making HK416 the US' service rifle. Can't think of any other reason. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:38, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:Maybe it's because "HK416" has HK's company name right there in the weapon name. It might be more of a copyright thing. [[User:Gato|Gato]] 21:01, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

Eugene Stoner is the inventor of the the AR 15/AR10/M16/M4. The name for the platform as a whole is the Stoner. There are over 100 manufacturers of AR 15s in the US. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:55, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:Probably what Masterius and Gato said, the Devs really, really want the HK416 to be the US standard (cause it ID better) :) And it has HK in the name, same reason the Glocks are G17/18. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:11, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

::Although Battlefield 2 had HK21 and HK53... And this makes me curious. Are they going to rename HK53 if/when it comes back? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:50, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Oh right, well then it's probably the same reason the Striker is still the DAO-12, they kept the name the same as it's always been in BF. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:52, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

== Glitch with the PDR? ==

Anyone else notice whenever you're using the PDR, It randomly switches from a 20 round mag to a 30 round mag? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 10:45, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

Apparently the extended mags are included by default. They're taken off if you have any barrel attachment. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 11:58, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

== New Screenshots ==
http://www.enterbf3.com/viewtopic.php?t=5033&sid=fa2af8c4723e98f64dadab8b5b9897d8
At the bottom. In one we can see a suppressed M40A5, and in on of the AKS-74U ones we can see his Coop buddy has a KH2002. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:54, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

== M26 MASS iron-sights ==

Does anyone remember which sight you would use in the beta if you were using an M26 mounted on one of the assault rifles? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:48, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

I never used the M26 in the beta, but with the M320 mounted on a rifle you would just zoom halfway in, a la the shotguns in previous Battlefield games. I reckon that the M26 would do the same. [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 17:56, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

:Same irons as the P90, Striker, F2000, M40A3, and M98B; the aftermarket ones. Oh wait, ON the AR? The AR's sights, like Crysis 2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:29, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

== Why is the "RPK 74M" chambered in 7.62x39 ==

[http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111001163136/battlefield/images/5/5f/RPK-74M.png Look here]... note the curvature of the magazine, the lack of the flash hider, the steel ribbed mag.... why can't games ever get the RPK right? Either putting a 75 round drum on the 74M, or this....

:A lot of the pics on Battlelog were wrong, like the G18's pic was a 17, but it does have the selector in game. Let me see an in game pic with the 7.62 mag, and I'll agree. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:36, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

::Rather odd that [http://web-vassets.ea.com/Assets/Richmedia/Image/Screenshots/ak74m_656x369.png?cb=1317663410 AK-74M] has proper image but [http://web-vassets.ea.com/Assets/Richmedia/Image/Screenshots/rpk_656x369.png?cb=1317663545 RPK-74M] has black RPK (not even RPKM) instead. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:06, 16 October 2011 (CDT)
::On a side note: do 45-round STANAG magazines even exist? Talking about [http://web-vassets.ea.com/Assets/Richmedia/Image/Screenshots/m27_656x369.png?cb=1317664019 M27].

[http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110929075021/battlefield/images/6/69/RPK_-_Beta.gif] that's it in first person, trust me the mag is a 7.62 ribbed steel mag in the game, I can't find a screenshot, but you can see it in the right light while reloading....

Yes! Not military issue, but I don't get the point of the M27 as a support weapon IRL, this helps at least. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=26456/Product/AR-15-M16-45-ROUND-MAGAZINE [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:37, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, cool. Didn't know that :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:49, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

::Like I didn't know that stuff about the AKs, it's what we're all here for :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:19, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah! :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:52, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

== Renders ==
Right now I am adding renders of all the weapons from the offical site. In case anyone thinks I missed them, the MP-443, M16A3, F2000 Tactical, KH2002, M16A4, AKS-74U, M4, A-91, and GP-30 do not have entries there yet, but I will add them here when they do. Well, except the GP-30, because I doubt it will get one... poor GP-30 :'( EDIT: Done! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:43, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

:Sorry for this being offtopic:
:I wish Devs added [http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=271&backPID=265&productID=89&pid_product=297&pidList=265&categorySelector=7&detail=&cHash=a367c3feaf GL1] to F2000, [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?Itemid=5&catid=20:all-other-weapons&id=36:the-hk79-underbarrel-grenade-launcher&option=com_content&view=article HK79] to G3 and [http://kbptula.ru/eng/str/strelk/556a91.htm the unnamed UGL] to A-91 (with the barrel length of 415 mm (same as AK-74M), it would be classified as assault rifle (compact one though, because its overall length is lesser than that of AK-74M with stock folded [http://zonawar.ru/rash_guns/rg_avtomat_a91m_eng.html] [http://zonawar.ru/rash_guns/rg_avtomat_ak-74m_eng.html] )). But that's probably would be too much to ask :( --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:54, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

That would have been nice, though, the F2000's GL1 is solved by not letting it mount a GL, and we haven't seen one mounted to the G3 yet. Who knows, maybe it will become an HK79 like the GP-30 :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:06, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

== KH2002 ==
Two things: this site doesn't have a KH2002 page, and if there's a newer version from 2009, shouldn't they have named it KH2009? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

== Makarov PB (6P9) ==
Dogtags :) http://www.enterbf3.com/news/579-159-battlefield-3-dog-tags/ What's interesting is, if you look below the M39 in the bottom rightish, there's a Makarov PB, beside the suppressed M9. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a suppressed MP-443, or if it will actually be in, but it's very interesting. Also note a lot of weapons seem to be missing, most likely since this isn't the full selection of dogtags. Oh, and there's two P90s, someone screwed up :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:30, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

Ya the USAS-12 dogtag shows a SPAS-12 instead--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] 01:52, 19 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:The Expendables

2010-11-24T21:28:27Z

Anarchy66660: /* Gunner's 1911 */

==Question on the weapons used==
anyone know what the 6th barrel down is, between the silenced M4 and the MP7? Might be a shotgun of sorts, based on the barrel/handguard...also no magazine. Can pick out the grip/trigger to the right of the skull's eye.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2378533888/tt1320253

-Barrett M107 with SUSAT (?!) Scope
-M16A1
-C8 with M203
-G36 with AG36
-No idea
-Shorty Remington 870 / Masterkey
-MP7
-Mk. 23
-Model 29
-Steyr M9A1
-Beretta M9 with front cocking serrations
-SVI Infinity
-Beretta 93R
-Desert Eagle
-A fuckload of knifes --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 03:10, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

It matches the sg9000 airsoft shotgun i once saw at a gunshow. so i think it may be it.
http://www.planxairsoftguns.com/store-products-UU-2272027---Walther-SG9000-SHOTGUN---C02_1096639197.html

I just thought I'd point out that the M107 does not have a SUSAT, but an ELCAN C79. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I guess I stand correct, it is a ELCAN C79, they look similar thought -_-' --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 23:52, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown 1911 ==

I think it's a Detonics Scoremaster, Check out the two Pictures on the 1911 section.
It's got the same trigger, and possibly the same magazine buttpad and hammer.

Also, I deleted my previous two posts. - Thomas.

== CQB-R Image ==

[http://www.screeninglog.com/journal/2010/5/12/check-out-these-new-expendables-photos.html Screeninglog.com - Here is page link instead]

New Image featuring the CQB-R Rifles, can someone replace the one on the main page? Thx - Thomas.

[http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2691072512/tt1320253 IMDB.com]

Look at this pic of Jet Li, the grip on his 'CQB'. Thats a Heckler & Koch 416?

Definatly a 416 look at the shape of the grip. Is Terry Crews using frag 12 rounds, as frag 12's normally come in a green casing and the spent cartridges in the image all appear to be see thu / white. this could of course just be hollywood, being hollywood - Captain Snikt

I also thing stathams 92 is most likely a 92G elite, or a ninety two based on the squared off pistol grip - captain snikt

Tango Down makes a pistol grip almost identical to that of the HK416, the BG-16 Battle Grip or so it's supposedly called. It could be one of those. I'd rather wait until we can find better shots of his gun to determine whether it's a 416 or not. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:34, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Cameos ==
Is it me or does anybody else miss hearing arnie's voice lol

:I just saw Commando last week so...no I don't miss his voice [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:38, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone else think Clint Eastwood shoulda had a cameo?

I gotta disagree. He was huge int he 80s of course, but not in the same way these guys were. Eastwood is on another level in many ways. My question, where is Segal? Chuck Norris? Tom Berhinger?
:I agree on Clint. While he was a definite star, he was a different sort of star than these guys. As for your question about where is Seagal? Well, he WAS offered a part and turned it down. Apparently, Seagal has issues with one of the produces of The Expendables and refuses to work with him(you can catch him September in Machete though). Jean-Claude Van Damme was also offered a role and turned it down, because he "doesn't want his career going in that direction"(that direction being "up" I assume), and Kurt Russell turned a part down due to "a lack of interest in ensemble acting at this time". Wesley Snipes was going to be in it, but he wasn't allowed to leave the country due to that whole tax evasion thing, so he couldn't go down to South America or Mexico or wherever it was they filmed it. Chuck woulda fit in too, but I don't think he was offered a part. And Berrenger? Nothing against the guy, but Berrenger was pretty much third tier even in his heyday, even the average classic action fan isn't gonna bring him up when they're thinking of action stars. Not that I woulda opposed him don't get me wrong, but at the same time, I don't think his omission is exactly as noticeable as say, Seagal or Mel Gibson(I think we can all guess why he wasn't offered a part) for example. I also missed Chow Yun-Fat. Li is a badass to be sure and I'm glad he's here, but woulda been cool to see Chow going back to old school Woo-mode and packing a couple handguns as well. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 12:52, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
::Addendum. Apparently at Comic-Con, Stallone said "I talked to Van Damme. I talked to [Steven] Segal. I even talked to Chuck Norris." He then added, "But there are certain considerations, like insanity.". Not sure if the insanity line was specifically for one of them, or all of them. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 22:50, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Screw Chuck Norris bring Jack Bauer up in here. [[User:24guns|24guns]]
:I totally woulda dug Kiefer Sutherland getting a part. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 12:52, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Jackie Chan should have been in this. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:36, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
::Nope, Jackie Chan focuses on much lighter 'comical' action fare. He would not be comfortable with such grisly violence as this does not fit with his cinema history well at all. It would not have made sense to include Jackie Chan. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually Jackie Chan did a lot of serious, even dark action/drama movies before ([[New Police Story]] for example). It's just that his Hollywood movies are all action comedy and that's what North American viewers are used to.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 17:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Damn straight[[User:24guns|24guns]]

Bruce Campbell ftw. -SasquatchJim

==Charles Daly 1911's - CONFIRMED AS KIMBER CUSTOMS==

The pistols list as Charles Daly Customs are Kimber Customs with Bright Blue finish. But I will confirm before I change the heading.-[[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]] 00:04, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Who in their right mind would customize a Charles Daly...I would have to hear it from the movie armor himself before i believe that one.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 15:49, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

CONFIRMED:Whoever thought they were CDs could not have been further off. Like the above, my vote went for Kimber, and NOW it is CONFIRMED--->

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/kimber-the-expendables/?hp=exclusives_title
--[[User:Gwhysow|Gwhysow]] 23:19, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

After this confirmation I changed the heading on the main page to reflect this. Since, I confess, I'm kinda new at editing this, I just changed the heading, wasn't sure if the details of the customization are meant to be included or not. If they are, feel free to add whatever is necessary. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 02:27, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

==clip==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elpaRzwICMk

I think there is a Saiga 12 being used by Hale Caesar (Terry Crews) in the clip

== Holy Cow ==

So many action stars in one movie. This can only be good --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 15:59, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

==Plane==

Can anyone identify the plane nd the machine guns in the nose they use to take out the dock?

:I would guess either .30 or .50 cal browning machine guns

Plane is a Grumman HU-16 Albatross. --[[User:Sidewinder Forge|Sidewinder Forge]] 14:33, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::And they are identified in 'the making of' pre-released video as 50 cals, so I assume they are AN-M2 machine guns [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

== Gunnar's M79 ==

I saw a Clip from when the Screenshot was taken. I believe he uses a Non-Explosive round like the HK69A1 in Miami Vice.
[[Image:Expendables-M79-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Gunnar Jensen opens fire with his [[M79]].]][[Image:MV_Launcher.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Tubbs pulls out his [[Heckler & Koch HK69A1 40mm Launcher|Heckler & Koch HK69A1]] on Yero.]]

It's possible, the Miami Vive Round is a custom made single shot (giant) shotgun round made from a 40mm.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 23:29, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Christ, those pistols look tiny. ==

I mean, I shouldn't be surprised that Stalone has massive hands, but still, the Beretta and the SSA look absolutely tiny in his hands. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 04:58, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Willis' Role ==

From what I've heard, Willis isn't just a cameo. He apparently plays an important part in the plot. At least, that's what I've heard. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 21:32, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

SPOILER SPOILER
*I saw it today. He isn't much more than a cameo. Three minutes of screen time, and mentioned again later.
*Stallone and Statham make up a sizeable portion of it, effectively being the two leads.
-SasquatchJim, 19:47 EST 13 August 2010

==Just watched it==

Pardon my french, but i fucking loved it!!! Arnie and bruce sadly only do cameos, but its worth it for a few jokes.
But onto the guns. Stallone (barny ross) is packing a pair of Charles Daly M1911's (which sometimes he fires so fast it nears automatic) one on each thigh. He does some perfect and frankly beautiful speedloads with them too. On the same belt he also caries the custom single action army on a quickdraw rig to his rear.
Stathams (lee christmas) main sidearm, seen mostly in the final action peice is a Beretta 92G Elite 1A which he uses in conjunction with throwing knives and if im being honest kinda steals the show.
The other real star of the movie is Terry Crews AA12, given its own into speech he even shows us the Frag 12 mini rocket out of its casing and explains to the audience just how cool the frag 12 really is, and the scenes he uses it truely do it justice, people are torn apart in a gorey wargasm.
Oh and Dolph Lundgren (Gunnar) briefly threatens Stone Cold with a shorty shotgun with a folding frong grip, much like Tubb's from miami vice, possibly a franchi but i cant be sure.
Ok there's my 50 cents, but it really did kick ass--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 23:56, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, Captain. The scene where he first uses the AA-12 is EPIC. I'm not normally a fan of the AA-12, but I had to respect it here. Also, many of Statham's fistfight scenes were awesome.
* As a side note, I believe the shotgun was a Serbu Super Shorty. I could easily be wrong, though.
*I think Yin was using a Steyr TMP in the back of Barney's truck. Again, don't quote me on that.
-SasquatchJim, 21:22 EST, 13 August 2010 (Not a member, but I've been told to sign my posts.)

Statham's fight scenes were cool. He messed that guy in the blue polo up with that kick to the head. --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Suberu shorty looks like the gun, but i think it was a brugger and thompet MP9 not the TMP due to the folding stock, and its always good practise to sign your posts --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh, sorry. I've never heard of the MP9. BTW, am I signing my posts right, since I'm not a user? -SasquatchJim 21:55 EST 13 August 2010

Brugger and Thommet bought out the stery tmp design an released ith with a folding stock as the MP-9, and yeah, thats fine, you dont need the date/time stamp but its always welcome --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 01:16, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

It was badass, just a great fun to watch action movie not loaded with preachy messages or other bullshit. They said it would be like an awesome 80s action movie, and delivered. BTW, I dont think there charles daly 1911s. Im betting their kimbers like Pheonixint said. BTW, remember when i think it was steve austin took off stallone's vest (which looked like a blackhawk strike) and said that without the kevlar hed be ripped apart or something to that effect, that the vest had no kevlar, it was just load bearing equipment, no panels or plates.

No crap...where is the evidence that these are Charles daly? Like i said, who would buy a cheap 1911 just to customize it all badass like?--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:10, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

And pheonixint is in the industry, his info is usually real solid, while i dont see one shred of evidence its a bargain bin 1911.

There's only one reason I can think as to why they'd be CD 1911s: The directors wanted to save money bu using inexpensive 1911s and customizing them. E.G. Using a $600 1911 instead of a $3000 one. I don't know, though.-SasquatchJim

== The Knives ==

Does anyone know the knives that they used in the movie? I saw some links to the ones that Sly and Doph uses, but I want to know what are the ones that Jason Statham uses. He had the kunai throwing knives and the folding knife in that one scene. I really want that knife now. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:23, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:In the end credits, it says knives provided by Gil Hibben. Tool's throwing knives in the end were definitely Hibbens. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:05, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.hibbenknives.com/expendables.htm

The first knife Tool drew from his boot and threw, was a Cold Steel Espada. Gunner313

== What gun is stallone using in the tunnels? ==

I couldn't see it good enough to ID but it looks like a MP7. Anyone else got an opinion?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:20, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure Stallone was using one of the kitted out M4A1 Carbine things, but he was holding it with one hand by the foregrip instead of at the ready because he was using it mainly for the flashlight. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
Pretty much. I have no idea what part of that thing looks like an MP7. If you look at the main page, the Vltor rifles were all what the team was using [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:27, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I know he was using a Vltor later but when he was alone in the tunnels. I don't know just had a feeling it was.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the bad dark lighting of the movie confused you [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:39, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

He was holding the vltor by the surefire light foregrip, definatly - Captain snikt

Yep, I just saw the movie again, and as the other guys said, he's carrying the Vltor by the foregrip, there's no MP7 in sight. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 22:01, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a noveske, vltor makes the stock and rail system.

I was looking at the front of the gun and never looked at the back so it looked like a machine pistol of somesort so I assumed a MP7. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Guns SPOILERS ==

[[Image:Shorty3-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Gunnar ([[Dolph Lundgren]]) pulls a [[Serbu Super Shorty]] on Monroe's Henchmen when negotiating a deal.]]
[[Image:USP9mm.jpg‎ |thumb|none|400px|Paine ([[Steve Austin]]) reacts to this and holds his [[H&K USP]] on Gunnar.]]

Someone needs to add these guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== Yin Yang's pistol? ==

Anyone recall what pistol Jet Li's character was carrying at the end battle? There was so much going on during that assault that I was just sitting and enjoying the carnage, without paying as much attention to weapon details as I normally would. And now that I'm sitting here trying to recall, my mind is blanking on me. Anyone able to refresh my memory? [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 02:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

He had a pistol? There was too much for me to take in at once!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, he most noticeably using it when he was clearing the soldiers out of one of those tents or whatever they were. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 05:55, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah now I remember it, I believe it was a Beretta. I could be wrong though.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:00, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Its definaty a 'box' shaped pistol, I just watched it again, looked like a p99 to me, but the only times we see it he is moving, there are no close up either --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 22:27, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
:Now that you mention it, I vaguely recall it looking like a P99 as well. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 22:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

i say it looked like a small glock, maybe a 19, not sure

I haven't seen the movie, but on a poster at my theatre, Jet Li has a SIG Pro in his holster, don't know if he has one in the movie though.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 05:27, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
:Hmm, that could be it, actually. Fairly sure it's not a Glock, but it could definitely be a SIG Pro. Thanks for the info man. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 22:03, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

yep that is defintly the gun he used in the film, the pics of the slide in the film during that scene look the same

i remember a pistol, he sort of takes cover behind something and then kills the guys and shows a full shot of the gun in his hand kind of pointing down. im going to see it again tommorow so ill have a look,also found apicog Gunnars shotty, going to put itup--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 00:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== low quality caps ==

Some of the lower quality caps will be put here until the official dvd or better quality official clips are released. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 09:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:The_expendable-ar15var.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Team members carry the Vltor / Noveske Diplomat with EOTech, flashlight, and laser sights.]]

[[Image:The_expendable-f2000.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Yang with his F2000 Tactical with Christmas's MP5K on the left.]]

[[Image:The_expendable-aa122.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Damn that thing's loud!"]]

[[Image:The_expendable-ak.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Enemy soldiers firing their AKs.]]
[[Image:The_expendable-ak2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Enemy soldiers fire their AKs as the team takes cover.]]
==Smoke Grenade==
[[Image:The_expendable-smoke.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Smoke grenade about to go off.]]

==Demolition Man==
in the promo still of sly aiming at dolph who is thretening li, doent it lookan awful lot like some of the scenes from demolition man?--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 01:29, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
:I don't recall a single scene like that from Demolition Man but if you recall a specific part feel free to point it out. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 04:34, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
:I think he means these two shots [[Image:DemoMan_011.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]] [[Image:Expendables.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:05, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

yeah thats the one, thamks Funkychinaman.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 15:10, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:Okay, he's wearing a beret in both pics, but other than that, it's just 2 shots of the same actor holding a gun, and not even in the same situation, one he's holding it directly to someone's head, the other he's standing several feet away pointing it at someone. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 20:15, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::Well, he said they look alike. As you pointed out, they look alike. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well yeah, in the sense that it's the same dude holding a gun in both shots. By that reasoning, any 2 shots of Arnie holding an M16 will look alike, or any 2 shots of Chow Yun Fat holding 2 pistols, and so on. Doesn't mean End of Days looks an awful lot like Predator, does it? [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 10:15, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::He mentioned it, and I found it in two minutes, so obviously he wasn't he only one. It's like if Arnold made another movie where he held a shotgun with one arm while wearing a black leather jacket. Why are you getting worked up about this? The guy made an observation, that's all. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Ok, so the pistol is different and the goatee too, but in both shots, aiming one handed, tac vest over black t-shirt and black beret, i think its similar enough --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 12:45, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I noticed it too and thought it was pretty badass. DKS01 you need to chill out with these comments. Let other people have an opinion. --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]
::Blow me, I wasn't aware I was somehow preventing anyone from having an opinion. If I had that capability I'd probably use it to get Rush Limbaugh off the air, but since Rush still broadcasts, I guess I don't have that power. He stated his opinion, I stated my opinion, deal with it chief. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 20:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Geez man, lose the attitude. And don't you ever tell me to blow you. I have never seen you write anything on this site but rude and asshole comments. --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]
::You've never seen me post anything but rude and asshole comments? Guess reading isn't something you're very good at then, cause there are other comments from me on THIS VERY PAGE where I posted about the fixing the Kimbers entry, discussed what pistol Jet Li was carrying, and agreed with some other dudes that Stallone's gun in the tunnel was the Diplomat and not an MP7. Actually, wait a sec, I think I remember you now, you're that dude who thought using the Harris technique was a "Call of Duty" homage then got mad when me and some other dudes told you it probably wasn't an homage, right? [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 04:24, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Yep that's me.--[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I think it just stands out because it's rare for a lot of movie stars to wear anything on their head at all. Off the top of my head, I think the only movies where Arnold wears anything on his head is in the Conan movies, where's he's got that weird headband thing. Not even in Predator, where it would've made sense, did he wear a hat. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:54, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually he did have a hat on in the very beginning of Predator...-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 04:53, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, there are some particular movies where the character is well-known for wearing a hat. Indiana Jones, Crocodile Dundee, Freddy Krueger, and others.
Also, I think Arnold briefly wears a hat in the Running Man (When trying to escape.) -SasquatchJim

I'll give you Indy and Dundee, but those are also parts of costumes. I can't think of any other hat wearing Harrison Ford characters though. (And looking back, I think Arnold did wear a hat in Collateral, when he was trying to infiltrate the terrorist base.)--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:32, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, Harrison wore a stormtrooper helment in Star Wars. Does that count LOL? But yeah, I see what you mean though; overall, costumes with hats are rare.
:For most stars, their greatest assets are their features. Why hide them with a hat? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:11, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Except in some cases...That explains why Mickey Rourke DID wear a hat. -SasquatchJim

To be honest Mickey Rourke Needed to wear a trenchcoat and a bag over his head--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 16:38, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Totally irrelevant but it bugged me, @DKS01 Arnie doesn't use an M16 in End of Days, is a pimped MP5.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:13, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

While on the hat subject, the whole team wear hats in this movie both in the opening scene, and the final shootout (with the exception of stallone who loses his beret) --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 23:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know why, but I REALLY like that Statham wore a baseball cap. It was understated and badass. -SJ

Toll Road's boonie hat never fell off, even during fights, i know from experience they come off easy if your not wearing a chin strap.

To be fair, this is sort of a "suspended-reality" movie. Take everything with a grain of salt. -SJ

==Gunner's 1911==

During the car chase Gunner uses a 1911 that looks alot like the one's used by Thomas Jane in The Punisher (2004). It was black with a silver compensator. Anybody else see it? [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

no i noticed it i thought it was funny because Dolph Lundgren played The Punisher in the 80's--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] 21:28, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Guns Appearing on the "Choose Your Weapon" Poster ==

Boy, Ross fires his handgun so fast that until I read about it here I thought it might have been some kind of machine pistol!

Anyway, the poster I first saw for The Expendables was the one with the chrome skull in the center surrounded by guns and knives in the shape of wings, which some have suggested is meant to evoke the Guns & Roses poster (maybe...). I'm kinda surprised that that poster wasn't used for this article (more appropriate here than the one used currently) and I was hoping to see the guns in it identified. Could anyone do just that (The original poster would appear alongside an annotated version with a list of firearms)? Here's some pictures I found:
[http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fFAqUS7IXq0/TGcN9LbltLI/AAAAAAAAAPw/o8F2vVD-LqU/s1600/expendables+poster.jpg]

And here someone even made a mockup using gun images from places like this site:
[http://www.blog.spoongraphics.co.uk/tutorials/how-to-create-the-expendables-winged-skull-poster-art How To Create The Expendables Winged Skull Poster Art]

:The very first section of this talk page is a listing of the weapons featured in that poster. This was the relevant info already posted above:"-Barrett M107 with SUSAT (?!) Scope -M16A1 -C8 with M203 -G36 with AG36 -No idea -Shorty Remington 870 / Masterkey -MP7 -Mk. 23 -Model 29 -Steyr M9A1 -Beretta M9 with front cocking serrations -SVI Infinity -Beretta 93R -Desert Eagle -A fuckload of knifes --yocapo32 03:10, 14 August 2010 (UTC)". Someone later clarified that it's an ELCAN C79 scope not a SUSAT. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 08:30, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

::Oh, Jeez, I skimmed this page way too quick looking for a mention and to be "sure" it wasn't covered, searched for the term "poster", thinking it would be included in any discussion. Sorry.

::But anyway, I still think it would be a better poster to use on the article page and think there really should be an annotated version too. And a big bag of money would be nice.
:::You got my vote. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 13:16, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

==Barney's Kimber - Possible Spoilers==

Is it possible that his Kimber's used double stacked magazines? I bought it at midnight, watched it, rewatched the speed firing bit at the end several times, and it seems like everytime he empties a magazine and reloads, he's firing fourteen to fifteen times. The time he fired both, he fires twenty six times and reloades, considering it'd be bad to go off with two rounds. Consistent with a double stacked .45 magazine. I couldn't see how many times the weapon cycled, but the sound was definitely fourteen shots. I'd also feel the need to point out that on several occasions, he fired only a few rounds at a time from one pistol, but it would be possible that he reloaded off screen. Especially given the speed he shows with his reloads. Movie magic, or some realism to a typical yet totally awsome, film? - Mikey

::The Kimbers he used had single-stack magazines (the armorer who blank-converted Stallone's pistols for this movie is an IMFDB administrator). You can also check the link that appears on the page. Counting the number of times the weapons are fired is a bad way to determine their magazine capacity in movies. Actors routinely fire more rounds than their weapons can hold because reloading is done between takes, off-camera. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:06, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Is it Just me ==

Or is something wrong with the front sight on this thing? --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 10:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Exp010.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

No, it is just a hooded sight, indicating that it is the Chinese version of the AK, the Norinco Type 56. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 10:57, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I think (even though the somali is holding the rifle not so straight) the front sight is tilted a bit on the left --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 14:51, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

:?He's just holding the rifle itself tilted to the left. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-09-20T14:16:34Z

Anarchy66660: /* Stoner 63? */

This game has a cold war look to it

==Just a thought==
Don't wet your pants at me here, but the final mission might be in the future, which would explain the Anachrostic weapons in the game.. like how in COD: MW there was "all Ghillied up", a mission in the past--[[User:SargeOverkill]]

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

It's an Intermediate rifle, like the P90 or MP7A1, slightly smaller caliber but with an effective range between a rifle's range and a sub gun's range.
:No, that is an incorrect comparison. The AK-74U is just a compact rifle since it fires an assault rifle round, not an assault rifle "styled" rifle. The P90 and the MP7 are designed from the ground up to be PDWs that fired ammo that are necked down rifle rounds instead of pistol rounds designed with the same armor piercing power as the full size rifle. It's like the Colt Model 733 or the 933 or any of the other shorten assault rifle variants. A submachine gun is always compared to weapons that fire pistol caliber ammo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

But weapons like the SAM-R use the same caliber as 933 and 733, 5.56x45, and the SAM-R is used as a DMR. i doubt the 5.45x39 could be a marksman rifle cartridge. even though its longer than the 5.7 or 4.6, its range and accuracy are not that of a true assault rifle.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.
Some people are still saying it could be WASR-2. It's not a WASR-2. WASR-2's are new production (within the past few years) rifles from Romania made ONLY for semi-automatic use and for importation into the US. There's no way on God's green earth that the rifle in game is a WASR-2.

More than likely this is just an AK-47 with an incorrectly modeled mag. They ARE modeling these things after airsoft guns ya know.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Grenade launchers are balanced, mininum detonation range, slow reload, not very accurate (need to arc) only 2 rounds, and besides, use it to take down campers.

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Not to mention it's impossible to actually fire one with live rounds. -Mandaloin

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:While looking at the Create-a-class 2.0 vid shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCzSImy-xm4, I found it rather odd for the choice that Treyarch was going with on the weapon selection for the pistols at the 0:23 mark. Wouldn't it make more sense to place the Makarov PM as the starting pistol because of it's weak 9x18mm cartridge? I'd personally would have liked to see it like this:

*Makarov PM
*ASP
*1911
*Colt Python
*CZ75

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:52, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::The guns don't make sense at all, not just because of the era. I mean flamethrower attachments, handheld miniguns, the same rear sight on many guns, 20-round mags holding 30 rounds, semi-auto shotguns impossibly cycling with dragonsbreath ammo. Before MW2 the Call of Duty series was known for its accuracy and attention to how the guns really work, as well as the weapons for the time periods the games take place in. And GunGunGun has a point, it's just going to be the same chaotic multiplayer as MW2, a bunch of stoners and kids making themselves feel better by corner camping, tubing, and quickscoping. Treyarch only seems to have done things to promote those playing techniques, not discourage them like they should. -Mandaloin
::: Cry some more then? It's pretty obvious that you don't like the gameplay style. There are many, MANY gamers out there that would disagree with your tastes, and those are the ones that Treyarch is aiming to please (along with those on the fence over some of MW2s perks/killstreaks which were changed for the better). So what if it's not all realistic, the key point in a video game is if it's any fun to play or not. Last I checked, I couldn't actually survive crashing a Ferrari at 100MPh at Laguna Seca either, but it is sure as hell fun to play a game that allows me to get back up and try again without it being "game over" for me. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Meh, quit complaining, it's a video game. If you want realism go play ARMA or Operation Flashpoint. It does look better than MW2, that I will say. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I just love how people can criticize a game, when yet, they haven't even played it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 21:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:I just love how people keep saying that. We don't have to play it to criticize what we've already seen of it. -Mandaloin
:: Yeah, you kinda do. If you have not actually sat down and played this game, you're only assuming it's gonna be bad by just looking at it. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg
:Nice find, I agree. Wow, they must've dug pretty deep. I don't see how it'd be possible for this to be a modeling mistake, as I would think it's much harder to find one of these than an MPL. The above link doesn't work, here it is again. [http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg04-e.htm] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well whatdaya know, the one I missed. Good find. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

They are Skorpians in 9x18mm without the stocks. Looks awesome to me.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

: We've already seen what the Skorpions look like, these look alot like that OTs-02 Kiparis --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 00:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:I presume the KS-23 is likely to have heavy recoil, small capacity (3 rounds) and a delay between shots. Also can't the KS-23 also function as a Grenade launcher as well firing firing a variety of shells such as Tear Gass, Flash Bang and White Phosphorous? I would marry Treyarch if they finally added Slugs to this baby! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a AR-18 but don't we have the full assault rifle list?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: It's not an AR-18, the recievers don't match. It looks more like the 63, although it doesn't appear to have the ventilated barrel housing. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

After actually looking at a 63, this gun looks like it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Stoner63-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stoner 63 in rifle and LMG configuration.]]
[[Image:COD7Stonerpossible.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's a screencap from gameplay footage of the possible Stoner 63. Compared to the stock image I'd say it is.]] . - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Reflex sights==
Just wondering about the reflex sights, were they even developed back during the periods the game is set in? Another thing I was curious about is that the M4 Spectre in the list shows it having a reflex mounted on it. While it is using a side-mount, wouldn't the stock get in the way if you try to fold/unfold it since it folds to the top of the gun?--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
: '''1,''' Yeah, i am almost sure reflex sight existed during cold war. There is even patent on internet, dating it into seventies.
: '''2,''' All SMG´s have apparently stocks removed for some reason. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Not exactly on topic==
Alright, I am having a pretty bad day with dealing all the crap my professors are throwing at me and then my roommate says something that is kinda pissing me off so I am gonna rant a little bit. Last night(this early morning actually, around 1), he decided not to do his homework and decided to watch a show about snipers and the amazing feats they pulled off including one about Hatchcock. It was pretty interesting until he ruined it after watching a sniper take out VietCongs using kentucky windage with his scoped (now busted) m14 after his helo was shot down by saying, "So what, I don't see how that is impressive, I can do that all the time in Modern Warfare 2." Now he wants to go buy Black Ops when it comes out because he wants to "pwn some noobs" and all the feature look really realistic just like in MW2. He goes on to say that he wants to become a Ranger because he thinks it is easy enough since he is smart since he was on a debate team, ran for state assembly, etc. and strong because he can do MMA and finishes that with he can drink a lot beer. I give him credit for having the balls to join the Rangers but at the same time, it feels like he is insulting them. Sorry for writing all this but I was having a shitty day and just had to let is all out and I figured it since he was talking of COD, that I would put it here. Alright, rant over, feeling much better now. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 15:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy, is actual real military service gonna shit on his cereal, lets see just how easy pwning noobs is when your actually getting shot at, oh and apparently theres this thing called recoil in reality, suprising i know. Oh and no respawns either. On an actual related note this game is gonna suck, I do love the return of the 1911 to COD i just can forgive the erronious amounts of just horrendous anacronisms, and the flamethrower undermount is so retarded --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's a fun idea, hand a CoD fanboy an AR-15 with the bolt locked back, hand them a magazine, and tell them to fire it. See how long it takes them to realize that the weapon isn't magically ready to fire just because you slap in a fresh magazine. You get five points for every ten seconds it takes before they realize what the bolt catch is. You get bonus points if they pull the charging handle.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 06:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Oh and pop that elusive saftey on too, just for good measure.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 09:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be impressed if they would give the back stock a flat slap after loading a fresh mag and charged the gun like a real badass.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Even better would be actually getting through the first phase of basic to even hold a weapon.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be even more surprised to find a gamer doing a proper tactical reload, instead of letting a mag drop to the ground and becoming confused as to why it doesn't magically appear back in his pouches.

==Kinda liking the weapons list==

Well, they are things you never see in other games, although the awp and famas and spas12 can go, and id love the a1 to be full auto. But, a revovler that makes sense, old school submachine guns, a pump action grenade launcher its kind of cool.

I do wish they didn't decided the nearly the same weapons from the other MW series like the AUG, SPAS-12, or the MP5K. They could have picked other pump action shotguns like the Remington 870, or another weapon aside from the MP5K. They should have stuck with the full size MP5. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do have the Ithaca 37. And at least the AUG is a rifle and not a LMG in this one. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I do know most of these guns really shouldn't exist but you can believe I will have a ton of fun with the under-barrel flamethrower with a smily face reflex sight on the G11(they better not mess up the G11).--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

At this moment, I am not bothered about weapons that don't exist at the time, but more on original choices. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda of agree with you there, sorta disappointed though that they made the M16A1 burst fire in Multiplayer. Though it's hard to say exactly when all these guns appear, while yes we were told it was starting in Vietnam but IT could possibly star in other timezones too. From what I've gathered, you play as multiple characters so it's possible you could play as multiple characters in different time periods, 1 in Vietnam, another in Cold War and maybe a few fictional war zones in the early 2000's [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, it seems that original M16 without forward assist is in game. Anyway - As far as i know M16A1 fired in 3-round bursts, no ?
:::The A1 is full-auto. The A2 and A4 variants fire bursts. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 10:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I dont like how they use the correct 20 round mag model but make it hold 30. Hopefully the burst/30 rounds is online only, like in cod 4 where the m16 was full auto SP but burst MP.

== CZ75 ==

JUst curious, does anyone think that the CZ-75 might be the Automatic version of the weapon. Granted Treyarch wasn't going to add Machine Pistols but since it's the last handgun in the list and it costs 750 credits would it be possible? I mean Bad Company 2 had their 93R as their last unlock which was a machine pistol [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:28, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well, it doesnt have to be automatic. CZ-75 is superior to all other handguns from list in real life.( maybe besides Colt Python ) - Its better than Makarov, ASP and even M1911 in all "stats" . Its probably best 9mm handgun.

::Not too sure as to how it would be better than a .45 caliber 1911. I can see it being better than the ASP or Makarov due to their small magazines of 7-8 rounds compared to the 75's 16 (9mm). Of course it does open the slight possibility that an Automatic conversion kit is available as an attachment [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Its not just about calibre or mag capacity. CZ-75 is more accurate, bullet is faster and i think its lighter. Anyway - Its sure that heavier cartrigde is allways better :) But i would take CZ75 to combat instead of M1911.

:Maybe the developers just read a lot of Gunsmith Cats, and took Rally's speech to heart, but the possibility that it may be an automatic makes me sigh. I hope it isn't.-protoAuthor 16:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, The CZ-75 is not more accurate than a 1911
Secondly, there is no "best" 9x19 millimeter pistol, its all personal preference,
Thirdly, the .45 is a better combat round due to its lager grain bullet and more dispersion of energy on contact,
and Lastly, while caliber is not the most important factor, the .45 A.C.P is superior to the 9x19mm because the 9 is a small lightweight bullet, while the .45 is a large heavyweight bullet.
P.S. sign your posts.
~~ PunisherDave
: Well, i tested both CZ75 and 1911. I was doing better with CZ. Anyway - I would take it into combat because of for example mag size. And 9mm bullets are way much more common... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Military 1911s almost universally sucked, with ultra loose fitting parts and 7 pound triggers, and nearly useless sights. 1911s in the civilian world, or the uber built special forces 1911, are nice. But your average GI 1911....not so. Im sure a cz75 would kick its ass in accuracy and reliability if you wanted to use more than ball ammo.
~~k9870
: Ágreed. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-09-07T22:10:17Z

Anarchy66660: /* Stoner 63? */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg
:Nice find, I agree. Wow, they must've dug pretty deep. I don't see how it'd be possible for this to be a modeling mistake, as I would think it's much harder to find one of these than an MPL. The above link doesn't work, here it is again. [http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg04-e.htm] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

could it be a galil

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-09-07T10:33:30Z

Anarchy66660: /* Unknown SMG */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)