Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Reichsrevolver M1879

2017-08-13T07:41:01Z

2wingo: /* Specifications */

[[File:Reichsrevolver m1879 Revolver.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Reichsrevolver M1879 Revolver - 10.6x25R]]
[[File:1883 ReichsRevolver.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Reichsrevolver M1883 - 10.6x25R]]
''Reichs-Commissions-Revolver Modell 1879'', more often referred as '''Reichsrevolver M1879''', was service revolver of the German Army until 1908 when it was replaced by [[Luger P08]]. Later this revolver was used by non-frontline troops in WW1 and even in WW2.

'''Reichsrevolver M1883''' (also called '''M1879/83''') was a shortened version of M1879.

=Specifications=

* '''Caliber:''' 10.6x25R German Ordnance

* '''Length:''' 12.20 in (310 mm)

* '''Weight:''' 2 lb 5 oz (1040 g)

* '''Action:''' single-action

{{Gun Title}}

==Film==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| rowspan=2|''[[Finances of the Grand Duke (Die Finanzen des Großherzogs)]]'' || Max Schreck || A conspirator || rowspan=2|M1879 || rowspan=2|1924
|-
| [[Alfred Abel]] || Philipp Collins
|-
| ''[[If War Comes Tomorrow (Esli zavtra voyna)]]'' || || A soldier || M1879; seen in documentary footage || 1938
|-
| ''[[African Queen, The|The African Queen]]'' || [[John von Kotze]] || German officer at Kungdu || M1879, holstered || 1951
|-
| ''[[Striped Trip (Polosatyy reys)]]'' || [[Aleksandr Beniaminov]] || Animal tamer || M1879 || 1961
|-
| ''[[Pyramid of the Sun God]]'' || || A bandit || M1883 || 1965
|-
| ''[[Wedding in Malinovka (Svadba v Malinovke)]]'' || [[Mikhail Vodyanoy]] || Popandopulo || M1879 || 1967
|-
| rowspan=3| ''[[Weisse Wölfe]]'' || [[Horst Preusker]] || Captain Wessels || rowspan=3| M1879 || rowspan=3| 1969
|-
| [[Rolf Hoppe]] || Bashan
|-
| [[Milan Jablonsky]] || Jim 'Bad Face'
|-
| ''[[The Intervention (Interventsiya)]]'' || [[Aleksandr Massarski]] || Nestor || Two nickel plated M1879s akimbo || 1969
|-
| rowspan=3| ''[[White Sun of the Desert (Beloye solntse pustyni)]]'' || [[Spartak Mishulin]] || Sayid || rowspan=3| M1879 || rowspan=3| 1970
|-
| [[Oleg Vasilyuk]] || Mahmud
|-
| || Several men of Abdullah's gang
|-
| rowspan=2|''[[Apaches (Apachen)]]'' || [[Milan Bosiljcic]] || Johnson || rowspan=2|M1879 || rowspan=2|1973
|-
| || Johnson's henchmen and Mexicans
|-
| rowspan=2|''[[Ulzana]]'' || [[Rolf Hoppe]] || Capt. Burton || M1883 || rowspan=2|1974
|-
| || An officer || M1879
|-
| ''[[Blood Brothers (Blutsbrüder)]]'' || [[Dean Reed]] || Jack Birge || M1883 || 1975
|-
| ''[[Cabbages and Kings]]'' || [[Kakhi Kavsadze]] || Colonel Sabas || M1879 || 1978
|-
| ''[[Slavers]]'' || [[Ron Ely]] || Steve Hamilton || M1883 || 1978
|-
| rowspan=5| ''[[The Adventures of Prince Florisel (Priklyucheniya printsa Florizelya)]]'' || [[Donatas Banionis]] || The Chairman || rowspan=2| M1883 || rowspan=5| 1981
|-
| || A Turkish policeman and a criminal in Istanbul
|-
| Valeriy Matveev || Frank Screamger || rowspan=2| M1879
|-
| [[Valeriy Filonov]] || A criminal
|-
| || Florizel's manservants || M1879 and M1883
|-
| ''[[The Trust That Has Burst (Trest, kotoryy lopnul)]]'' || [[Yuri Mazhuga]] || Bill Humble || M1879 || 1982
|-
| ''[[Captain of "Pilgrim" (Kapitan "Piligrima")]]'' || [[Nodar Mgaloblishvili]] || Negoro || M1879 || 1987
|-
| ''[[Weather Is Good on Deribasovskaya, It Rains Again on Brighton Beach]]'' || [[Vladimir Episkoposyan]] || A mobster || M1883 || 1992
|-
|''[[Phantom, The|The Phantom]]'' || || Quill´s man || M1883 || 1996
|-
| ''[[The State Counsellor (Statskiy sovetnik)]]'' || [[Konstantin Khabenskiy]] || "Grin" || M1883 || 2005
|-
| ''[[Wonder Woman (2017)|Wonder Woman]]'' || || German spies || M1883 || 2017
|-
|}

==Television==

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| rowspan=2| ''[[The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson]]'' || [[Vitaly Solomin]] || Dr. Watson || rowspan=2| M1879 || rowspan=2| 1979-1986
|-
| [[Boryslav Brondukov]] || Inspector Lestrade
|-
| ''[[Hearts of Three (Serdtsa tryokh)]]'' || [[Rafael Kotanjyan]] || Alvarez Torres || M1883 || 1992
|-
| ''[[Nestor Burma - Season 5]]'' || || || M1883, seen in weapons collection / "Poupée russe" (S5E5) || 1998
|-
| ''[[The White Guard (Belaya gvardiya)]]'' || [[Fyodor Bondarchuk]] || Mikhail Shpolyanskiy || M1879 || 2012
|-
|}

== Video Games ==

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="400"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Verdun (VG)|Verdun]] || Armeerevolver M/83 Reichsrevolver || || 2015
|-
|}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Revolver]]

Talk:Single Action Army

2017-01-05T21:48:49Z

2wingo: /* What is this Variants ? */

==Other Variants of the Single Action Army==
[[File:CimaronSAA ModP Nickel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cimarron Model P (Copy of the Single Action Army) Nickel Finish - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Peacemaker.gif|thumb|none|400px|Denix Replica Single Action Army - .45 Long Colt. This none firing zinc replica is typically not used in films, but could possibly be used as a stand-in prop. Note the extra long cylinder lock cuts on the cylinder, indicating the revolver is a prop.]]
[[Image:Colt saa4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel. This is the screen used gun used by [[Henry Fonda]] and [[Charles Bronson]] in [[Once Upon a Time in the West]], with nickel finish.)]]
[[Image:ColtSAA5inArtillary.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 5" barrel with blued finish. This is the screen used gun used by [[Jason Robards]] in the film ''[[Once Upon a Time in the West]]''.]][[Image:Colt 1873 Civilian Model.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army "Quick Draw" - .45 Long Colt.]]
[[Image:ColtSAACustomQuick&Dead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The Custom engraved Colt Single Action army used by [[Lance Henriksen]] in ''[[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]'' - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:SAA3.5in.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Sheriff's Model Single Action Army w/ 3.5" barrel - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:Uberti_bird'shead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Uberti Repicla Single Action Army sporting the bird's head grip modification to make the gun more concealable]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Custom Engraved Ivory 32-20 WCF.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, custom engraved with ivory - .32-20 Winchester]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Quick-Draw 38 Special.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, referred to as "Quick-Draw" or "Civilian" model, custom engraved with ivory grips - .38 Special]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadEMFHartfordSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The EMF Hartford Single Action Army with an aluminum lightweight 4 3/4" barrel and nickel finish and holster used by [[Sharon Stone]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]. - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadCimmaronSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The two Cimmaron Arms Single Action Army 4 3/4" Quickdraws with engraved nickel finishes and holsters used by [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]] - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:HandOfGod.jpg|thumb|none|400px|One of the Single Action Army "Hand of God" live-firing revolvers used by [[Russell Crowe]] in [[3:10 to Yuma]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA Hidalgo.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Replica Colt Single Action Army Revolver - .45 Long Colt. This is the screen used gun, held and worn by [[Viggo Mortensen]] in ''[[Hidalgo]]''.]]
[[Image:SingActArm2To.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Frontier Scout Revolver - .22 LR.]]
[[Image:Small_killbill-Bird'shead.JPG‎|thumb|none|400px|Single Action Army .45 Long Colt with nickel finish, pearl "Bird's Head" grips, and custom muzzle brake. This is the actual screen-used pistol seen in the film [[Kill Bill Vol. 2]].]]
[[Image:Earpbuntline.jpg|thumb|none|400px|EMF/Uberti Buntline Special used by [[Kurt Russell]] in the film Tombstone. Due to the fact that current production Colt Buntlines are only available in 12" barrels, the film's armorer contacted EMF/Uberti to have three custom Buntlines made for Tombstone. From the personal collection of the film's armorer [[Peter Sherayko]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA HandOfGod.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army Fast Draw Model "Hand of God" - .45 LC]]
[[Image:Montewalshcolt.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt 1873 [[Single Action Army]] w. 7.5" barrel. This is the Hero Colt (Serial Number 4562. Mfd. 1874) used by [[Tom Selleck]] in ''[[Monte Walsh (2002)|Monte Walsh]].'']]
[[Image:Pattoncoltright.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with 4.75" barrel, ivory grips, and custom engravings as carried by General George S. Patton - .45 Long Colt]]
[[File:BowenColtFlattopSA.jpg|thumb|none|400px| Flat-top target model with ivory grips. this specimen was manufactured in 1895. It can be seen at the Gene Autry museum.]]
[[File:87 118 47 2.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Flat-top target model with ivory grips (left side)]]
[[File:Colt Single Action Army.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with wooden grips - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Cavalry.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel known as the "Cavalry" model with ivory grips]]

==We will be spending an eternity getting all the SAA entries==
To get this current we are missing many instances of the SAA in the countless Westerns (or even non-westerns) films and Television shows, going all the way back to the Silent era. It will take a long time, but we must do it. Anyone familiar with the SAA's usage in film/television will immediately know that we've only mentioned a FRACTION of the times the SAA has appeared over the last 100 years of cinema. MPM2008

Makes me want to go back to bed just thinking about it. If I wasn't at work right now I would. Big job ahead of us.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

== Colt Bisley ==
The Colt Bisley was not produced in Bisley. Bisley is not a factory, it's a world-famous shooting range and mecca for competitive shooting, so when they introduced a target model they called it the Bisley model. The only British-made Colts were percussion revolvers made between 1854-1856.

== Fun little quote about the Single Action Army ==
Eh, I just thought I'd throw this in for a little bit of fun and praise to this firearm:

'''"Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize."'''

--[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 11:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Appearances ==

Wouldn't it make sense, regarding the sheer amount of appearances that this gun has, for someone to put them in lists by variant, then alphabetize those? --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] ([[User talk:Sangheili1155|talk]]) 15:16, 16 November 2012 (EST)

== Ammo ==
How common is .45 Long Colt today? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:36, 5 March 2013 (EST)

It's common enough honestly depends on the loads you're looking for, most of the online stuff is out but you'd be able to find some at local gunshops. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 17:45, 5 March 2013 (EST).
: What exactly are "loads?" - [[User: 2wingo]]
The rounds, ammunition, cartridges, et al. Basically it's what you load in the brass to shoot, lots of different loads for .45 Colt. Hunting, target shooting, self defense. The sky's the limit dude. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 10:51, 7 March 2013 (EST).

== Fanning the hammer ==

Can this be done with any single-action revolver, or only on older models without the modern internal safeties? - [[User: 2wingo]]
The transfer bar found on post-1958 Rugers and some other clones prevent this most of the time. [[User:Mike Searson|Mike Searson]] ([[User talk:Mike Searson|talk]]) 15:02, 5 January 2017 (EST)

== What is this Variants ? ==

[[File:Colt4.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]
[[File:Colt5.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]
--[[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] 21:56, 1 March 2014 (JST)

These, I believe, are Uberti replicas. - [[User:2wingo]]

I've been reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series and I envision Roland's revolvers being SAAs with swing-out cylinders. Does anyone else share this opinion? (I am only in book three, so please avoid spoilers)--[[User:H3nry8adger1982|H3nry8adger1982]] ([[User talk:H3nry8adger1982|talk]]) 11:00, 29 October 2016 (EDT)H3nry8adger1982

-- In the film adaptation, they'll be using cartridge-converted Remington 1858 New Armies, which have cylinders you can remove and swap out like speedloaders. - [[User:2wingo]]

Can't you swap out SAA cylinders too? Or at least remove them for cleaning?--[[User:H3nry8adger1982|H3nry8adger1982]] ([[User talk:H3nry8adger1982|talk]]) 14:08, 5 January 2017 (EST)H3nry8adger1982

You have to use tools to remove the cylinder on a Colt, while a New Army's cylinder can be swapped out in the heat of battle. - [[User:2wingo]]

:Not necessarily. The older Blackpowder frame, yes, because the base pin was held in place by a screw. Frames made after 1898 have a push pin release type of cylinder bolt as opposed to the screw found on the Blackpowder frame (pre 1898). You push in the release, pull out the cylinder pin and remove the cylinder. [[User:Mike Searson|Mike Searson]] ([[User talk:Mike Searson|talk]]) 15:01, 5 January 2017 (EST)

::But aren't those really fragile and prone to breaking in comparison to screw pins? - [[User:2wingo]]

Talk:Single Action Army

2017-01-05T19:50:35Z

2wingo: /* What is this Variants ? */

==Other Variants of the Single Action Army==
[[File:CimaronSAA ModP Nickel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cimarron Model P (Copy of the Single Action Army) Nickel Finish - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Peacemaker.gif|thumb|none|400px|Denix Replica Single Action Army - .45 Long Colt. This none firing zinc replica is typically not used in films, but could possibly be used as a stand-in prop. Note the extra long cylinder lock cuts on the cylinder, indicating the revolver is a prop.]]
[[Image:Colt saa4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel. This is the screen used gun used by [[Henry Fonda]] and [[Charles Bronson]] in [[Once Upon a Time in the West]], with nickel finish.)]]
[[Image:ColtSAA5inArtillary.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 5" barrel with blued finish. This is the screen used gun used by [[Jason Robards]] in the film ''[[Once Upon a Time in the West]]''.]][[Image:Colt 1873 Civilian Model.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army "Quick Draw" - .45 Long Colt.]]
[[Image:ColtSAACustomQuick&Dead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The Custom engraved Colt Single Action army used by [[Lance Henriksen]] in ''[[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]'' - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:SAA3.5in.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Sheriff's Model Single Action Army w/ 3.5" barrel - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:Uberti_bird'shead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Uberti Repicla Single Action Army sporting the bird's head grip modification to make the gun more concealable]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Custom Engraved Ivory 32-20 WCF.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, custom engraved with ivory - .32-20 Winchester]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Quick-Draw 38 Special.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, referred to as "Quick-Draw" or "Civilian" model, custom engraved with ivory grips - .38 Special]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadEMFHartfordSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The EMF Hartford Single Action Army with an aluminum lightweight 4 3/4" barrel and nickel finish and holster used by [[Sharon Stone]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]. - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadCimmaronSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The two Cimmaron Arms Single Action Army 4 3/4" Quickdraws with engraved nickel finishes and holsters used by [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]] - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:HandOfGod.jpg|thumb|none|400px|One of the Single Action Army "Hand of God" live-firing revolvers used by [[Russell Crowe]] in [[3:10 to Yuma]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA Hidalgo.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Replica Colt Single Action Army Revolver - .45 Long Colt. This is the screen used gun, held and worn by [[Viggo Mortensen]] in ''[[Hidalgo]]''.]]
[[Image:SingActArm2To.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Frontier Scout Revolver - .22 LR.]]
[[Image:Small_killbill-Bird'shead.JPG‎|thumb|none|400px|Single Action Army .45 Long Colt with nickel finish, pearl "Bird's Head" grips, and custom muzzle brake. This is the actual screen-used pistol seen in the film [[Kill Bill Vol. 2]].]]
[[Image:Earpbuntline.jpg|thumb|none|400px|EMF/Uberti Buntline Special used by [[Kurt Russell]] in the film Tombstone. Due to the fact that current production Colt Buntlines are only available in 12" barrels, the film's armorer contacted EMF/Uberti to have three custom Buntlines made for Tombstone. From the personal collection of the film's armorer [[Peter Sherayko]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA HandOfGod.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army Fast Draw Model "Hand of God" - .45 LC]]
[[Image:Montewalshcolt.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt 1873 [[Single Action Army]] w. 7.5" barrel. This is the Hero Colt (Serial Number 4562. Mfd. 1874) used by [[Tom Selleck]] in ''[[Monte Walsh (2002)|Monte Walsh]].'']]
[[Image:Pattoncoltright.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with 4.75" barrel, ivory grips, and custom engravings as carried by General George S. Patton - .45 Long Colt]]
[[File:BowenColtFlattopSA.jpg|thumb|none|400px| Flat-top target model with ivory grips. this specimen was manufactured in 1895. It can be seen at the Gene Autry museum.]]
[[File:87 118 47 2.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Flat-top target model with ivory grips (left side)]]
[[File:Colt Single Action Army.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with wooden grips - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Cavalry.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel known as the "Cavalry" model with ivory grips]]

==We will be spending an eternity getting all the SAA entries==
To get this current we are missing many instances of the SAA in the countless Westerns (or even non-westerns) films and Television shows, going all the way back to the Silent era. It will take a long time, but we must do it. Anyone familiar with the SAA's usage in film/television will immediately know that we've only mentioned a FRACTION of the times the SAA has appeared over the last 100 years of cinema. MPM2008

Makes me want to go back to bed just thinking about it. If I wasn't at work right now I would. Big job ahead of us.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

== Colt Bisley ==
The Colt Bisley was not produced in Bisley. Bisley is not a factory, it's a world-famous shooting range and mecca for competitive shooting, so when they introduced a target model they called it the Bisley model. The only British-made Colts were percussion revolvers made between 1854-1856.

== Fun little quote about the Single Action Army ==
Eh, I just thought I'd throw this in for a little bit of fun and praise to this firearm:

'''"Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize."'''

--[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 11:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Appearances ==

Wouldn't it make sense, regarding the sheer amount of appearances that this gun has, for someone to put them in lists by variant, then alphabetize those? --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] ([[User talk:Sangheili1155|talk]]) 15:16, 16 November 2012 (EST)

== Ammo ==
How common is .45 Long Colt today? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:36, 5 March 2013 (EST)

It's common enough honestly depends on the loads you're looking for, most of the online stuff is out but you'd be able to find some at local gunshops. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 17:45, 5 March 2013 (EST).
: What exactly are "loads?" - [[User: 2wingo]]
The rounds, ammunition, cartridges, et al. Basically it's what you load in the brass to shoot, lots of different loads for .45 Colt. Hunting, target shooting, self defense. The sky's the limit dude. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 10:51, 7 March 2013 (EST).

== Fanning the hammer ==

Can this be done with any single-action revolver, or only on older models without the modern internal safeties? - [[User: 2wingo]]

== What is this Variants ? ==

[[File:Colt4.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]
[[File:Colt5.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]
--[[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] 21:56, 1 March 2014 (JST)

These, I believe, are Uberti replicas. - [[User:2wingo]]

I've been reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series and I envision Roland's revolvers being SAAs with swing-out cylinders. Does anyone else share this opinion? (I am only in book three, so please avoid spoilers)--[[User:H3nry8adger1982|H3nry8adger1982]] ([[User talk:H3nry8adger1982|talk]]) 11:00, 29 October 2016 (EDT)H3nry8adger1982

-- In the film adaptation, they'll be using cartridge-converted Remington 1858 New Armies, which have cylinders you can remove and swap out like speedloaders. - [[User:2wingo]]

Can't you swap out SAA cylinders too? Or at least remove them for cleaning?--[[User:H3nry8adger1982|H3nry8adger1982]] ([[User talk:H3nry8adger1982|talk]]) 14:08, 5 January 2017 (EST)H3nry8adger1982

You have to use tools to remove the cylinder on a Colt, while a New Army's cylinder can be swapped out in the heat of battle. - [[User:2wingo]]

Talk:Single Action Army

2017-01-05T04:12:57Z

2wingo: /* What is this Variants ? */

==Other Variants of the Single Action Army==
[[File:CimaronSAA ModP Nickel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cimarron Model P (Copy of the Single Action Army) Nickel Finish - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Peacemaker.gif|thumb|none|400px|Denix Replica Single Action Army - .45 Long Colt. This none firing zinc replica is typically not used in films, but could possibly be used as a stand-in prop. Note the extra long cylinder lock cuts on the cylinder, indicating the revolver is a prop.]]
[[Image:Colt saa4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel. This is the screen used gun used by [[Henry Fonda]] and [[Charles Bronson]] in [[Once Upon a Time in the West]], with nickel finish.)]]
[[Image:ColtSAA5inArtillary.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 5" barrel with blued finish. This is the screen used gun used by [[Jason Robards]] in the film ''[[Once Upon a Time in the West]]''.]][[Image:Colt 1873 Civilian Model.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army "Quick Draw" - .45 Long Colt.]]
[[Image:ColtSAACustomQuick&Dead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The Custom engraved Colt Single Action army used by [[Lance Henriksen]] in ''[[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]'' - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:SAA3.5in.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Sheriff's Model Single Action Army w/ 3.5" barrel - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:Uberti_bird'shead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Uberti Repicla Single Action Army sporting the bird's head grip modification to make the gun more concealable]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Custom Engraved Ivory 32-20 WCF.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, custom engraved with ivory - .32-20 Winchester]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Quick-Draw 38 Special.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, referred to as "Quick-Draw" or "Civilian" model, custom engraved with ivory grips - .38 Special]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadEMFHartfordSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The EMF Hartford Single Action Army with an aluminum lightweight 4 3/4" barrel and nickel finish and holster used by [[Sharon Stone]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]. - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadCimmaronSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The two Cimmaron Arms Single Action Army 4 3/4" Quickdraws with engraved nickel finishes and holsters used by [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]] - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:HandOfGod.jpg|thumb|none|400px|One of the Single Action Army "Hand of God" live-firing revolvers used by [[Russell Crowe]] in [[3:10 to Yuma]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA Hidalgo.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Replica Colt Single Action Army Revolver - .45 Long Colt. This is the screen used gun, held and worn by [[Viggo Mortensen]] in ''[[Hidalgo]]''.]]
[[Image:SingActArm2To.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Frontier Scout Revolver - .22 LR.]]
[[Image:Small_killbill-Bird'shead.JPG‎|thumb|none|400px|Single Action Army .45 Long Colt with nickel finish, pearl "Bird's Head" grips, and custom muzzle brake. This is the actual screen-used pistol seen in the film [[Kill Bill Vol. 2]].]]
[[Image:Earpbuntline.jpg|thumb|none|400px|EMF/Uberti Buntline Special used by [[Kurt Russell]] in the film Tombstone. Due to the fact that current production Colt Buntlines are only available in 12" barrels, the film's armorer contacted EMF/Uberti to have three custom Buntlines made for Tombstone. From the personal collection of the film's armorer [[Peter Sherayko]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA HandOfGod.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army Fast Draw Model "Hand of God" - .45 LC]]
[[Image:Montewalshcolt.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt 1873 [[Single Action Army]] w. 7.5" barrel. This is the Hero Colt (Serial Number 4562. Mfd. 1874) used by [[Tom Selleck]] in ''[[Monte Walsh (2002)|Monte Walsh]].'']]
[[Image:Pattoncoltright.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with 4.75" barrel, ivory grips, and custom engravings as carried by General George S. Patton - .45 Long Colt]]
[[File:BowenColtFlattopSA.jpg|thumb|none|400px| Flat-top target model with ivory grips. this specimen was manufactured in 1895. It can be seen at the Gene Autry museum.]]
[[File:87 118 47 2.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Flat-top target model with ivory grips (left side)]]
[[File:Colt Single Action Army.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with wooden grips - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Cavalry.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel known as the "Cavalry" model with ivory grips]]

==We will be spending an eternity getting all the SAA entries==
To get this current we are missing many instances of the SAA in the countless Westerns (or even non-westerns) films and Television shows, going all the way back to the Silent era. It will take a long time, but we must do it. Anyone familiar with the SAA's usage in film/television will immediately know that we've only mentioned a FRACTION of the times the SAA has appeared over the last 100 years of cinema. MPM2008

Makes me want to go back to bed just thinking about it. If I wasn't at work right now I would. Big job ahead of us.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

== Colt Bisley ==
The Colt Bisley was not produced in Bisley. Bisley is not a factory, it's a world-famous shooting range and mecca for competitive shooting, so when they introduced a target model they called it the Bisley model. The only British-made Colts were percussion revolvers made between 1854-1856.

== Fun little quote about the Single Action Army ==
Eh, I just thought I'd throw this in for a little bit of fun and praise to this firearm:

'''"Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize."'''

--[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 11:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Appearances ==

Wouldn't it make sense, regarding the sheer amount of appearances that this gun has, for someone to put them in lists by variant, then alphabetize those? --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] ([[User talk:Sangheili1155|talk]]) 15:16, 16 November 2012 (EST)

== Ammo ==
How common is .45 Long Colt today? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:36, 5 March 2013 (EST)

It's common enough honestly depends on the loads you're looking for, most of the online stuff is out but you'd be able to find some at local gunshops. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 17:45, 5 March 2013 (EST).
: What exactly are "loads?" - [[User: 2wingo]]
The rounds, ammunition, cartridges, et al. Basically it's what you load in the brass to shoot, lots of different loads for .45 Colt. Hunting, target shooting, self defense. The sky's the limit dude. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 10:51, 7 March 2013 (EST).

== Fanning the hammer ==

Can this be done with any single-action revolver, or only on older models without the modern internal safeties? - [[User: 2wingo]]

== What is this Variants ? ==

[[File:Colt4.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]
[[File:Colt5.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]
--[[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] 21:56, 1 March 2014 (JST)

These, I believe, are Uberti replicas. - [[User:2wingo]]

I've been reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series and I envision Roland's revolvers being SAAs with swing-out cylinders. Does anyone else share this opinion? (I am only in book three, so please avoid spoilers)--[[User:H3nry8adger1982|H3nry8adger1982]] ([[User talk:H3nry8adger1982|talk]]) 11:00, 29 October 2016 (EDT)H3nry8adger1982

-- In the film adaptation, they'll be using cartridge-converted Remington 1858 New Armies, which have cylinders you can remove and swap out like speedloaders. - [[User:2wingo]]

Talk:Single Action Army

2017-01-05T04:12:28Z

2wingo: /* What is this Variants ? */

==Other Variants of the Single Action Army==
[[File:CimaronSAA ModP Nickel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cimarron Model P (Copy of the Single Action Army) Nickel Finish - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Peacemaker.gif|thumb|none|400px|Denix Replica Single Action Army - .45 Long Colt. This none firing zinc replica is typically not used in films, but could possibly be used as a stand-in prop. Note the extra long cylinder lock cuts on the cylinder, indicating the revolver is a prop.]]
[[Image:Colt saa4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel. This is the screen used gun used by [[Henry Fonda]] and [[Charles Bronson]] in [[Once Upon a Time in the West]], with nickel finish.)]]
[[Image:ColtSAA5inArtillary.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 5" barrel with blued finish. This is the screen used gun used by [[Jason Robards]] in the film ''[[Once Upon a Time in the West]]''.]][[Image:Colt 1873 Civilian Model.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army "Quick Draw" - .45 Long Colt.]]
[[Image:ColtSAACustomQuick&Dead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The Custom engraved Colt Single Action army used by [[Lance Henriksen]] in ''[[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]'' - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:SAA3.5in.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Sheriff's Model Single Action Army w/ 3.5" barrel - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:Uberti_bird'shead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Uberti Repicla Single Action Army sporting the bird's head grip modification to make the gun more concealable]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Custom Engraved Ivory 32-20 WCF.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, custom engraved with ivory - .32-20 Winchester]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Quick-Draw 38 Special.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, referred to as "Quick-Draw" or "Civilian" model, custom engraved with ivory grips - .38 Special]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadEMFHartfordSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The EMF Hartford Single Action Army with an aluminum lightweight 4 3/4" barrel and nickel finish and holster used by [[Sharon Stone]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]. - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadCimmaronSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The two Cimmaron Arms Single Action Army 4 3/4" Quickdraws with engraved nickel finishes and holsters used by [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]] - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:HandOfGod.jpg|thumb|none|400px|One of the Single Action Army "Hand of God" live-firing revolvers used by [[Russell Crowe]] in [[3:10 to Yuma]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA Hidalgo.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Replica Colt Single Action Army Revolver - .45 Long Colt. This is the screen used gun, held and worn by [[Viggo Mortensen]] in ''[[Hidalgo]]''.]]
[[Image:SingActArm2To.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Frontier Scout Revolver - .22 LR.]]
[[Image:Small_killbill-Bird'shead.JPG‎|thumb|none|400px|Single Action Army .45 Long Colt with nickel finish, pearl "Bird's Head" grips, and custom muzzle brake. This is the actual screen-used pistol seen in the film [[Kill Bill Vol. 2]].]]
[[Image:Earpbuntline.jpg|thumb|none|400px|EMF/Uberti Buntline Special used by [[Kurt Russell]] in the film Tombstone. Due to the fact that current production Colt Buntlines are only available in 12" barrels, the film's armorer contacted EMF/Uberti to have three custom Buntlines made for Tombstone. From the personal collection of the film's armorer [[Peter Sherayko]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA HandOfGod.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army Fast Draw Model "Hand of God" - .45 LC]]
[[Image:Montewalshcolt.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt 1873 [[Single Action Army]] w. 7.5" barrel. This is the Hero Colt (Serial Number 4562. Mfd. 1874) used by [[Tom Selleck]] in ''[[Monte Walsh (2002)|Monte Walsh]].'']]
[[Image:Pattoncoltright.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with 4.75" barrel, ivory grips, and custom engravings as carried by General George S. Patton - .45 Long Colt]]
[[File:BowenColtFlattopSA.jpg|thumb|none|400px| Flat-top target model with ivory grips. this specimen was manufactured in 1895. It can be seen at the Gene Autry museum.]]
[[File:87 118 47 2.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Flat-top target model with ivory grips (left side)]]
[[File:Colt Single Action Army.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with wooden grips - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Cavalry.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel known as the "Cavalry" model with ivory grips]]

==We will be spending an eternity getting all the SAA entries==
To get this current we are missing many instances of the SAA in the countless Westerns (or even non-westerns) films and Television shows, going all the way back to the Silent era. It will take a long time, but we must do it. Anyone familiar with the SAA's usage in film/television will immediately know that we've only mentioned a FRACTION of the times the SAA has appeared over the last 100 years of cinema. MPM2008

Makes me want to go back to bed just thinking about it. If I wasn't at work right now I would. Big job ahead of us.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

== Colt Bisley ==
The Colt Bisley was not produced in Bisley. Bisley is not a factory, it's a world-famous shooting range and mecca for competitive shooting, so when they introduced a target model they called it the Bisley model. The only British-made Colts were percussion revolvers made between 1854-1856.

== Fun little quote about the Single Action Army ==
Eh, I just thought I'd throw this in for a little bit of fun and praise to this firearm:

'''"Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize."'''

--[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 11:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Appearances ==

Wouldn't it make sense, regarding the sheer amount of appearances that this gun has, for someone to put them in lists by variant, then alphabetize those? --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] ([[User talk:Sangheili1155|talk]]) 15:16, 16 November 2012 (EST)

== Ammo ==
How common is .45 Long Colt today? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:36, 5 March 2013 (EST)

It's common enough honestly depends on the loads you're looking for, most of the online stuff is out but you'd be able to find some at local gunshops. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 17:45, 5 March 2013 (EST).
: What exactly are "loads?" - [[User: 2wingo]]
The rounds, ammunition, cartridges, et al. Basically it's what you load in the brass to shoot, lots of different loads for .45 Colt. Hunting, target shooting, self defense. The sky's the limit dude. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 10:51, 7 March 2013 (EST).

== Fanning the hammer ==

Can this be done with any single-action revolver, or only on older models without the modern internal safeties? - [[User: 2wingo]]

== What is this Variants ? ==

[[File:Colt4.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]
[[File:Colt5.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]
--[[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] 21:56, 1 March 2014 (JST)

These, I believe, are Uberti replicas. - [[User:2wingo]]

I've been reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series and I envision Roland's revolvers being SAAs with swing-out cylinders. Does anyone else share this opinion? (I am only in book three, so please avoid spoilers)--[[User:H3nry8adger1982|H3nry8adger1982]] ([[User talk:H3nry8adger1982|talk]]) 11:00, 29 October 2016 (EDT)H3nry8adger1982
-- In the film adaptation, they'll be using cartridge-converted Remington 1858 New Armies, which have cylinders you can remove and swap out like speedloaders. - [[User:2wingo]]

Talk:Mahershala Ali

2014-10-02T01:18:20Z

2wingo:

That's one hell of a name... --[[Special:Contributions/74.177.183.5|74.177.183.5]] 19:15, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
:It was sure fun spelling it. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]

Is that really his name? How on ''earth'' do you pronounce it? 19 letters in his first name, wow.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 02:30, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

SAY IT three times FAST! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:08, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

now that is a chalenge i'll have to turn down.--[[Special:Contributions/74.177.183.5|74.177.183.5]] 19:15, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
::It must be hell for him to write out his name on name tags and have it fit. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:::Epic Lulz -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

::::The really funny thing? That his last name is so short.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 02:52, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::::: His birth last name was Gilmore, but he changed it to Ali when he converted to Islam. And his first name is pronounced "Maher-shalal-hash-baz." - [[User:2wingo]]

Talk:Appaloosa

2014-07-06T06:56:02Z

2wingo: /* Outstanding Western */

'''WARNING: SPOILERS BE HERE'''

I thought I would comment on the end duel between Everett and Bragg. Unlike most Western films, Everett stands in the old-fashioned dueling stance with his pistol facing the ground, similair to how they dueled before the days of hip holsters and repeating revolvers. I managed to grab this shot where we see clearly how the duel turns out, where Everett fires far faster and deliberately than Bragg, who hits the ground beside Everett a meer quarter of a second later.

[[Image:AppaloosaDuel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Just thought I'd share my appreciation :). This film is excellent with gun realism in ways few films ever capture. It captures the time period perfectly and I recommend this film to anyone who appreciates realism to its fullest extent. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Outstanding Western ==

I like Ed Harris.I think he can take alot of the credit for the movie's authentic look and feel. I've enjoyed his work for years going back to 1983 when I saw him portray John Glenn in ''[[The Right Stuff]]''. I get the impression that he's a perfectionist when it comes to his craft. And he isn't big on using the latest gee whiz technology. In the DVD extras he decided to make ''Appaloosa'' with film instead of digital cameras because he wanted the look that only film can convey.It meant more work but he went for it anyway. I just put that it in there because I think it says alot about his attitude.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:47, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

:This is awesome! It's so great we have a complete page for this movie. I thought about it doing it myself (the iTunes HD version of this film looks superb), but figured I would mess it up because I'm not familiar enough with guns from the era. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:A good flick, and as noted elsewhere on the talk page, good solid accuracy with the treatment of guns/shooting. I loved the line, when Virgil and Hitch are all shot up after the shootout with the Shelton gang, "That was quick." "Yeah, everybody could shoot."

:Not to mention the fact that the guns actually sound like real guns, so we don't have any of that "pistol making a noise like the deck-gun on a battleship" nonsense that you see in a lot of films. - [[User: 2wingo]]

== Organizing firearms by type ==

I'm just organizing some pages. I'm not changing the text or screencaps, but I'm anal and I am grouping the firearms by type. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:42, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Single Action Army

2014-05-16T20:19:03Z

2wingo: /* What is this Variants ? */

==Other Variants of the Single Action Army==
[[File:CimaronSAA ModP Nickel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cimarron Model P (Copy of the Single Action Army) Nickel Finish - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Peacemaker.gif|thumb|none|400px|Denix Replica Single Action Army - .45 Long Colt. This none firing zinc replica is typically not used in films, but could possibly be used as a stand-in prop. Note the extra long cylinder lock cuts on the cylinder, indicating the revolver is a prop.]]
[[Image:Colt saa4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel. This is the screen used gun used by [[Henry Fonda]] and [[Charles Bronson]] in [[Once Upon a Time in the West]], with nickel finish.)]]
[[Image:ColtSAA5inArtillary.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 5" barrel. This is the screen used gun used by [[Jason Robards]] in [[Once Upon a Time in the West]], with blued finish.)]]
[[Image:Colt 1873 Civilian Model.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army "Quick Draw" - .45 Long Colt.]]
[[Image:ColtSAACustomQuick&Dead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The Custom engraved Colt Single Action army used by [[Lance Henriksen]] in ''[[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]'' - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:SAA3.5in.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Sheriff's Model Single Action Army w/ 3.5" barrel - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:Uberti_bird'shead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Uberti Repicla Single Action Army sporting the bird's head grip modification to make the gun more concealable]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Custom Engraved Ivory 32-20 WCF.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, custom engraved with ivory - .32-20 Winchester]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Quick-Draw 38 Special.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, referred to as "Quick-Draw" or "Civilian" model, custom engraved with ivory grips - .38 Special]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadEMFHartfordSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The EMF Hartford Single Action Army with an aluminum lightweight 4 3/4" barrel and nickel finish and holster used by [[Sharon Stone]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]. - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadCimmaronSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The two Cimmaron Arms Single Action Army 4 3/4" Quickdraws with engraved nickel finishes and holsters used by [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]] - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:HandOfGod.jpg|thumb|none|400px|One of the Single Action Army "Hand of God" live-firing revolvers used by [[Russell Crowe]] in [[3:10 to Yuma]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA Hidalgo.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Replica Colt Single Action Army Revolver - .45 Long Colt. This is the screen used gun, held and worn by [[Viggo Mortensen]] in ''[[Hidalgo]]''.]]
[[Image:SingActArm2To.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Frontier Scout Revolver - .22 LR.]]
[[Image:Small_killbill-Bird'shead.JPG‎|thumb|none|400px|Single Action Army .45 Long Colt with nickel finish, pearl "Bird's Head" grips, and custom muzzle brake. This is the actual screen-used pistol seen in the film [[Kill Bill Vol. 2]]]]
[[Image:Earpbuntline.jpg|thumb|none|400px|EMF/Uberti Buntline Special used by [[Kurt Russell]] in the film Tombstone. Due to the fact that current production Colt Buntlines are only available in 12" barrels, the film's armorer contacted EMF/Uberti to have three custom Buntlines made for Tombstone. From the personal collection of the film's armorer [[Peter Sherayko]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA HandOfGod.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army Fast Draw Model "Hand of God" - .45 LC]]
[[Image:Montewalshcolt.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt 1873 [[Single Action Army]] w. 7.5" barrel. This is the Hero Colt (Serial Number 4562. Mfd. 1874) used by [[Tom Selleck]] in ''[[Monte Walsh (2002)|Monte Walsh]].'']]
[[Image:Pattoncoltright.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with 4.75" barrel, ivory grips, and custom engravings as carried by General George S. Patton - .45 Long Colt]]
[[File:BowenColtFlattopSA.jpg|thumb|none|400px| Flat-top target model with ivory grips. this specimen was manufactured in 1895. It can be seen at the Gene Autry museum.]]
[[File:87 118 47 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[File:Colt Single Action Army.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with wooden grips - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Cavalry.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel known as the "Cavalry" model with ivory grips]]

==We will be spending an eternity getting all the SAA entries==
To get this current we are missing many instances of the SAA in the countless Westerns (or even non-westerns) films and Television shows, going all the way back to the Silent era. It will take a long time, but we must do it. Anyone familiar with the SAA's usage in film/television will immediately know that we've only mentioned a FRACTION of the times the SAA has appeared over the last 100 years of cinema. MPM2008

Makes me want to go back to bed just thinking about it. If I wasn't at work right now I would. Big job ahead of us.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

== Colt Bisley ==
The Colt Bisley was not produced in Bisley. Bisley is not a factory, it's a world-famous shooting range and mecca for competitive shooting, so when they introduced a target model they called it the Bisley model. The only British-made Colts were percussion revolvers made between 1854-1856.

== Fun little quote about the Single Action Army ==
Eh, I just thought I'd throw this in for a little bit of fun and praise to this firearm:

'''"Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize."'''

--[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 11:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Appearances ==

Wouldn't it make sense, regarding the sheer amount of appearances that this gun has, for someone to put them in lists by variant, then alphabetize those? --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] ([[User talk:Sangheili1155|talk]]) 15:16, 16 November 2012 (EST)

== Ammo ==
How common is .45 Long Colt today? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:36, 5 March 2013 (EST)

It's common enough honestly depends on the loads you're looking for, most of the online stuff is out but you'd be able to find some at local gunshops. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 17:45, 5 March 2013 (EST).
: What exactly are "loads?" - [[User: 2wingo]]
The rounds, ammunition, cartridges, et al. Basically it's what you load in the brass to shoot, lots of different loads for .45 Colt. Hunting, target shooting, self defense. The sky's the limit dude. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 10:51, 7 March 2013 (EST).

== Fanning the hammer ==

Can this be done with any single-action revolver, or only on older models without the modern internal safeties? - [[User: 2wingo]]

== What is this Variants ? ==

[[File:Colt4.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]
[[File:Colt5.jpg|300px|thumb|none]]
--[[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] 21:56, 1 March 2014 (JST)

These, I believe, are Uberti replicas. - [[User:2wingo]]

Talk:Colt Python

2014-03-05T20:49:04Z

2wingo:

== Okay. that's it. I want one. I'm getting one ==

Yesterday I was in a local gunstore and there was a very nice widow getting her late husband's firearms appraised. Among the collection was a beautiful Python with a 6" barrel manufactured in 1958. It still had the original 1st generation wooden grips and that amazing Royal Blue finish. She let me take a look at it. It's balance was great and it's timing was still terrific. It was appraised at $1,700. Okay that was the clincher. I'm going to exert self-discipline and start saving up for a Python. If that means $1,500 - $2,000 than so be it. I'm getting one. And I'm under no illusions about how tough this will be. Especially when I come across a real nice S&W revolver. I can feel the pain already. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:14, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Good luck, mate. But, d'you mind if I brag for a moment? This Christmas, my grandfather is giving me his 6" nickel Python :) -SasquatchJim.

:I mean this in the best way possible. Shut up. LOL --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:27, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

::I wish you luck - I hope you're better at it than I am! - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]
::: Well as of Monday (11/29/10) I saw two Colt Pythons for sale. One at the local Cabelas and another in a locally owned gunshop. Both with 6" barrels and both priced between $1,300 - $1,400 dollars. Like I said it will require some discipline on my part and I don't know if I'll make it, but it's a good goal I guess. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:36, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

I learned to shoot @ 13 with my dad's 6-inch nickel Python. He still has the original grips and package.

The first gun bigger then a .22 that I ever shot was my uncle's Python with a 2.5 inch barrel. I never really liked the look of snub nosed revolvers, at least compared to longer barreled revolvers, but I loved shooting that thing. It was a lot of kick for a prepubescent kid, though. Still, if you get the chance to buy one, then you certainly should do so. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:06, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

==Other Variants==
[[Image:ColtPythonStdBarrel.jpg|thumb|450px|none|[[Colt Python]] with 4" Barrel and factory Black rubber combat grips - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:ColtPythonRubberGrips.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Python with 6" Barrel and Rubber grips - .357 magnum]]
[[Image:Colt python elite.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Colt Python Elite with 6 inch barrel- .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:Pythonelite.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Colt Python Elite with 4 inch barrel- .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:ColtPythonFlipSide.jpg|thumb|450px|none|[[Colt Python]] with 6" Barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:8in_Colt_Stalker_.357.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Colt Stalker - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:Colt Python .357.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Python 4" barrel - .357 Magnum. Manufactured in 1975. Fixed front sight, adjustable rear sight, serrated trigger and checkered hammer with standard markings. Fitted with checkered walnut grips with gold Colt medallions.]]
[[Image:pistoljunkiepythonnickel4inleft.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Nickel plated Colt Python with 4" barrel (left side) - .357 Magnum.]]
[[Image:pistoljunkiepythonnickel4inright.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Nickel plated Colt Python with 4" barrel (right side) - .357 Magnum.]]
[[Image:Bruni_magnum_nickel_1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|right|Colt Python 380 - .357 magnum (Bruni blank-firing replica.)]]
[[Image:Nickelpython.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Nickel plated [[Colt Python]] with 2.5 inch barrel - .357 magnum]]
[[Image:Pythontar.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Python Target with 8 inch barrel - .38 Special]]
[[File:Colt8inchTarget.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Python Target with 8'' barrel and in nickel finish - .38 Special]]
[[Image:P00657 Rubber Python Full Left.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Colt Python - .357 Magnum revolver. This non-firing prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film '''[[The Other Guys]]'''. The gun is accompanied by the Galco shoulder holster and clip pouch also used in numerous scenes from the film. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TGC&Product_Code=P00656&Category_Code=OtherGuys this link].]]
[[Image:ColtPython6.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Larger screenshot of the 6 in. Python]]
[[Image:Scope_pistol.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Python Silhouette with 8 inch barrel, including factory scope.]]
[[File:ColtPython&IvoryGrips.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Python with 6" barrel & Ivory Grips- .357 Magnum]]
[[File:Colt Python 8 Inch Nickel.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Nickel Colt Python with 8" barrel - .357 Magnum]]

== An Idea ==

Guys, could someone please add a short text how to distinguish the Python and the Anaconda, you know, for noobs like me? To me both revolvers look the same, the only difference I can see is the screws' placement above the trigger mechanism. (And of course the nomenclature is different but that can rarely be seen in films and games.) Thanks. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:28, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== How to distinguish a Colt Python from a Colt Anaconda ==

*The trigger guards are shaped differently, the bottom of the Python's trigger guard is flat, the bottom of the Anaconda's trigger guard slants forward and downward.
*The Anaconda is noticeably larger overall than the Python (and is almost twice as heavy).
*The screw placement above the trigger mechanism is different.
*The griped tip of the ejector rod on the Python is longer than the Anaconda's, the ejector rod itself on the Anaconda's is longer than the Python's.
*The factory rubber grips provided for the two pistols are different; the Anaconda's grips have finger grooves while the Python's are smooth.
*The Anaconda only comes with a Stainless Steel finish, Blued Anacondas ''do not'' exist.

[[Image:Pythstainless6.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Python Stainless Steel variant with 6" Barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:Colt Anaconda HQ.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Anaconda with 6" barrel - .44 Magnum]]
Hope this helps. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:28, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Plus they have different ammunition types. The Python is 357. Magnum and 38. Special, while the Anaconda is in 44.-[[User:The Gunslinger 3|The Gunslinger 3]] 22:04, 28 May 2012 (CDT)
:Well, that's a given, but you can't always tell caliber in a movie. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 19:57, 30 August 2012 (CDT)

== Colt Python Elite ==

What exactly makes it "Elite?" - [[User:2wingo]]

Talk:Colt New Frontier

2013-11-19T20:00:02Z

2wingo:

Remington 1875

2013-10-30T03:56:47Z

2wingo: The grips of the third gun are clearly ivory, not pearl

'''The ''Remington 1875'' has been used in the following films:'''
[[Image:Rem1875.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Remington 1875 - .45 Long Colt.]]
[[Image:Ub75Army.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Ubertl replica of a Remington 1875 - .45 Long Colt]]
[[File:Nickel Remington 1875 Pearl Grips.jpg|thumb|400px|right|Nickel Remington 1875 with ivory grips - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Ub90Police.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Uberti replica of a Remington 1890 - .45 Long Colt]]
==Specifications==
(1875 - 1889)

* '''Type:''' Revolver

* '''Caliber(s):''' .45 Colt, 44 Remington, .44-40 WCF

* '''Weight:''' 2.8lb ( kg)

* '''Length:''' 13.5in ( cm)

* '''Barrel length(s):''' 7.5 in (19.05 cm)

* '''Capacity:''' 6-round Cylinder

* '''Fire Modes:''' Single Action

-----
===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Red River]]'' || [[Hank Worden]] || Simms Reeves || Frontier Model || 1948
|-
| ''[[Red River]]'' || [[Joanne Dru]] || Tess Millay || Frontier Model || 1948
|-
|''[[Major Dundee]]''||[[Mario Adorf]]|| Sergeant Gomez|| ||1965
|-
|''[[Major Dundee]]''||[[Ben Johnson]]|| Sergeant Chillum || ||1965
|-
|''[[Major Dundee]]''||[[Albert Carrier]]|| Captain Jacques Tremaine || ||1965
|-
|''[[Will Penny]]'' ||[[Bruce Dern]]||Rafe Quint|| ||1968
|-
|''[[Ride the High Country]]''||[[Randolph Scott]]||Gil Westrum|| ||1962
|-
|''[[Little Big Man]]''|| ||U.S. Army|| ||1970
|-
|''[[Rio Lobo]]''||[[Christopher Mitchum]]||Sgt. Tuscarora Phillips || ||1970
|-
|''[[Hannie Caulder]]''||[[Ernest Borgnine]]||Emmett Clemens|| ||1971
|-
|''[[Breaker Morant]]''|| ||Boer Commando|| ||1980
|-
|''[[The Long Riders]]''||[[David Carradine]]|| Cole Younger || ||1980
|-
| ''[[Heaven's Gate]]'' || || Different characters || || 1980
|-
|''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]''|| ||Barranca|| ||1981
|-
|''[[Silverado]]''|| || ||Seen in the gunshop||1985
|-
|''[[Geronimo: An American Legend]]''||[[Jason Patric]]||Lt. Gatewood|| ||1993
|-
|''[[Maverick]]''||[[James Garner]]||Marshall Zane Cooper|| ||1994
|-
|''[[Wyatt Earp]]''||[[Kevin Costner]]||Wyatt Earp|| ||1994
|-
|''[[Wild Bill]]''||[[James Remar]]||Donnie Lonigan|| ||1995
|-
|''[[Crossfire Trail]]''||[[Brad Johnson]]||Beau Dorn || ||2001
|-
|''[[Monte Walsh (2002)|Monte Walsh]]''||[[Tom Glass]]||A Marshall|| ||2002
|-
|''[[Open Range]]''||[[Robert Duvall]]||Boss Spearman|| ||2003
|-
|''[[Down in the Valley]]''|| || ||Seen in Gun Cabinet||2005
|-
|''[[Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, The|The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford]]''||[[Sam Shepard]]||Frank James||Nickel plated ||2007
|-
|''[[True Grit (2010)|True Grit]]''||[[Barry Pepper]]||"Lucky" Ned Pepper|| ||2010
|}

=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[Return To Lonesome Dove]]''||[[William Sanderson]]||Lippy Jones||Nickle||1993
|-
|''[[Deadwood]]''||[[Timothy Olyphant]]||Seth Bullock|| ||2004-2006
|-
|''[[The Office]]''||[[Rainn Wilson]]||Dwight Schrute|| ||2005-Present
|}

===Video Game===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|''[[Outlaws]]''|| || ||1997
|-
|''[[TimeSplitters 2]]''||Garret Revolver|| ||2002
|-
|}

=See Also=
{{Remington}}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Revolver]]

Talk:Webley Revolvers

2013-08-08T05:34:42Z

2wingo: /* Webley Mk VI Discussion */

=Webley Mk VI Discussion=
==Additional Variants==
[[Image:245as.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley Mk. VI converted to 22 Long Rifle]]
[[Image:Webleyrevolverbayonet&stock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley Mk. VI with shoulder stock and bayonet.]]

[[Image:Wr.jpg|thumb|none|450px|I don't know what this is but it isn't a Mk II (It's a .38 MK II and not the .455 MK II).]]
[[Image:MKIII.jpg|thumb|none|400px|thumb|none|450px|I don't know what this is but it isn't a Mk III (It's a .38 MK III and not the .455 MK III).]]
[[Image:3Webleys.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Three different Webleys. Top to bottom:Mk VI(.455),Mk IV w/5" barrel(38S&W) and a MK IV Pocket Model w/3" barrel(38S&W).]]

==Power==
I have read from a few sources that claim the .455 Webley cartridge has limited stopping power. They say that a common feature of most European revolvers is they have powder charges too small for their large bullets (i.e the Chamelot-Delvigne Model 1873's 11x17mm cartridge). Any thought's on this gun's effectiveness?
::I remember hearing how when they tested the stopping power of pistol rounds on cows, the .455 bullet killed a cow in one shot and a .45 ACP did it in two, so that sounds to me like it's got all the power it should. But it depends what manufacturer is making the ammo and how much they're packing the shells with. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:Well, you're referring to the Thompson-Lagarde tests, which resulted in the development of the .45 ACP. The science involved is kind of questionable, however the old .476 Enfield round actually came out first in testing, followed by the .45 Colt and .455 Webley. The tests were very biased towards large-caliber unjacketed bullets. Bear in mind that the .455 was mostly used with the jacketed Mk.VI round throughout it's service life. It's true that the .455 is a somewhat low-velocity round, like most European rounds of the late 19th century (though only the .45 Colt and .44-40 of the same era were notably faster, .455 Webley and .44 Russian are fairly close in performance). Ballistically the .45 ACP produces more ft-lbs, but in actual use nobody ever complained about the .455s stopping power. The 11 x 17mm French is a different story, as the French army insisted on loading it to far lower pressures than the gun could handle. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

I've never owned the .455 version, but I got a Webley Mk. VI converted to .45 ACP for my birthday last year. It was a very nice revolver, but had more recoil than my friend's 1911, but that's because of weight differences in certain parts of the guns. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 14:50, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Merging ==

Is there a reason that all the Webley Mk ##s have their own page? Seems like they should be on the same page with different sections like the [[Desert Eagle]]. Thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:34, 18 April 2012 (CDT)
:These pages are kind of a mess, as I think there has been a misunderstanding about how these revolvers are named. Initially the revolvers were made in .455 with the final variant being the Mk VI in 1915. Then comes the confusing part, the .38 revolver known as the Mk IV (WWII service pistol) is not directly related to the .455 Mk IV being made about 40 years later. The .38 revolvers are actually based on a scaled down Mk VI .455. I don't know if the .38 revolvers started from Mk I, but there was definitely a Mk III which was introduced in, I think, 1925 and was used by the police. I'm not really that clued in on the differences between all the variants so can't know for sure, but will go out on a limb and guess that a lot of these guns are on the wrong pages, as I'm fairly sure that for some variants there are no external differances. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:55, 18 April 2012 (CDT)

[[Image:Arm273.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Webley Mk.IV - .455 Webley]]

The Webley Mk IV was made from 1899 - 1913. It differs from the Mk III in that the steel was of differnet quality, the trigger stop was raised and the slots in the cylinder were made wider. The ratchet teeth of the extractor were case-hardened and the hammer was made lighter.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:10, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

What do you think about naming the sections "Webley .455 Mk ##" and "Webley .38 Mk IV". This isn't technically how they were known, but is the only sollution to the problem that we currently have of there being two totally different variants sharing the same name and section. There would also possibly be the "Webley .38 Mk III" which did exist and could be in stuff, if I knew enough about these guns to tell them apart. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:17, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

I think you read my mind. That seems to be the only logical way to organize them. I don't have any heartburn with it. Page looks good by the way. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:26, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

:Go to town my friends. I just wanted to get all this stuff on the same page. You guys should sort them however you think is best. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:42, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

Is anyone an expert on the .455 Webley revolver marks? My knowledge is somewhere between fuck and all, but first off I though that all of the Mk's had the holster guides (wedges in front of the cylinder) but the pictures for the Mk II and III lack these so I think that would make them a random civilian Webley (not even sure if these had standardised names and designs). Also, in terms of identifying the different Marks would it be correct to say that the Mark 1 has the squared off rear of the grip, the Mark II rounds this off, the Mark III adds external cylinder cams between the pivot and the holster guides, not sure about the IV and V, and the VI has the squared off grip and 6" barrel (rest had 4" with 5/6" being the minority). Is this rightish? Any other external differences between the variants? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:55, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

== Webley revolvers. Different Marks. ==
Mark I (November 1887)Black powder, bird's head grip,lanyard ring,4 inch barrel, break-top or open top design.

Mark I*(October 1894)Upon repair or refurbishing a hardened steel plate was added to the standing breech in order to approximate the design of the Mark II. The butt was rounded off a little more and the thumb piece on the stirrup-lock was made smaller.

Mark II (October 1894)Hardened steel plate added to the standing breech to help with corrosion, hammer was made of harder steel, grip was rounder, hammer catch spring was coiled instead of V-shaped and thumb piece on the stirrup lock was made smaller.

Mark III (October 1897) A cam was fitted to unlock the cylinder for removal and the cylinder attachment to the frame was improved. See the left side of the revolver. In 1905 a number of Mk III's were fitted with 6" barrels for officers and cadets to purchase.

Mark IV (July 1899)Higher grade steel, trigger stop was raised, the slots in the cylinder made wider, ratchet teeth of the extractor were case-hardened and the hammer was made lighter to ease with the lock time. Like the Mk III there were a number of this pattern made with the 6" barrel for officers and cadets who wished to purchase them.

Mark V (December 1913)the cylinder had a larger diameter (to withstand the higher pressures from the smokeless powder rounds)and the rear of the cylinder was rounded.

Mark VI (May 1915) The ultimate Webley pattern. Six inch barrel is now standard. Front blade sight is removable. Square butt for better grip. Soldiers were stating that the round butt was harder to hold when their hands were covered in mud, blood, grease and when wearing gloves. Internally several of the components were redesigned to ease manufacturing.

Hope this helps. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:15, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

:Thanks, that helps with some, but what obvious external difference (dumb it down for me) are there between a Mk III, and the the Mk IV and V (how is the rear of the cylinder rounded, it looks the same to me). I'm fairly sure the pictures currently up for the III and V are correct (can read the markings at the top of the frame) but to me they look identical (apart from the hammer seemingly going back to the Mk 1 style). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:40, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

Look at the Mk II and the Mk III. See how the Mk II doesn't have the additional mechanical do-hickeys on the left side just to the front of the cylinder and the Mk III does. As do all the latter marks. There you go. Also the bolt slots in the Mk IV cylinder are noticeably larger when compared to the Mk III. the rounding of the cylinder is more subtle, but it's there. The page looks good. I wouldn't get too wound up over the small stuff. Good work.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:02, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

:Thanks, think I have it pretty much worked out now. Lastly, do you know what the two unidentified variants at the top of this page are? .38 Mk III's? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:27, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

I don't have a clue. Need to research it, but my first inclination is that they are Belgian replicas. In the 19th and early 20th century Belgium was a major source of knock-offs as was Spain. But that's just a guess right now.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 20:04, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

== Yet another variation ==
Evidently they are still making the Enfield No. 2 in India. Believe it or not! --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:28, 19 April 2012 (CDT)
[[File:IndianEnfield.jpg|none|300px|thumb|Indian Enfield]]
''Indian 32-caliber IOR-Mk1 revolver Made by the INDIAN ORDNANCE FACTORY of Kampur, the Mk-1 revolver is a reminiscence of the British colonial period. It is manufactured with modified Webley designs, it is double-action and retains the Webley-typical automatic spent cases ejection at the break-open of the cylinder. It was first launcher on the export market in the years 1995/1996, but it has been in production since more than 25 years back, and gained acceptance as an Indian Police service weapon and for civilian ownership (private ownership of guns in India is more common than many may believe). It was conceived as a concealable gun, and this, and the 32-caliber, made it popular in its homeland back in the years when the .32-ACP ammunition was at the top with civilians for self-defence and with police personnel for concealed carry. Now that the market is clogged with a number of compact and sub-compact high-capacity and high-caliber semi-automatic models, the IOR-Mk1 revolver can be considered as a collection item for the curious gun owner. One note about the manufacturer of this weapon, the Indian State-owned ORDNANCE FACTORY BOARD is that they have enlarged their production lines in the past years and now manufacture about everything that such a country needs for law enforcement and national defence. Their products range from "Oldies But Goldies" items like this IOR-Mk1 revolver, the ASHANI semi-automatic pistol (copy of the Browning 1910), the 9x19mm Browning High-Power, the L1A1-FAL rifle and the Sterling machine-carbine.''

From: http://www.securityarms.com/firearm/4485

== Webley Confusion ==

I think the major confusion about the Webleys is that they made .455 chambered models and .38 chambered models. Both models are named MK I, II, III, etc. but the guns are totally different. The .38 series are smaller than the .455 series and are often called "pocket revolvers". The 2 photos above of a MK II and a MK III are the .38 chambered models and that's why they don't look "right" as most people are used to seeing the .455 models of the same "MK" designation. The last photo above with the 3 revolvers shows a .455 chambered model on top and two .38 chambered models below. You can see the considerable difference in frame size between the two different series.

What should be done is a section for the .455 models and a section for the .38 models. That would alleviate a lot of the confusion.

--[[User:Jags|Jags]] 01:57, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

Are you sure that a .38 Mk II existed, as I can't find any referance to them, only the Mk III and Mk IV. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:19, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm not having any luck either. So keep looking, but I think that for now we're sitting pretty good where we are at. Excellent work guys. I'm a revolver nut so it warms my old man heart to see the classics receive so much attention.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 11:24, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

Thanks for finishing up the .38 Webley III posting. (I'm still trying to figure out how to work this site!) I'm not sure about the .38 MK II's either but I thought I read something about them at sometime. The Webley .38 MK III was in production for 40 - 50 years.

Here is one from 1897: http://www.adamsguns.com/2824.htm

Here is a Webley price list from 1939 just posted today.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?217772-Mk111-38&p=2121430#post2121430

Here is one on GunBroker right now: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=283024844

This is the actual one used in Temple of Doom: http://www.propbay.com/original/chens-webley-indiana-jones-temple-doom-1984-movie-prop-435.html

Here is what is said on Wikipedia: The Hong Kong Police and Royal Singaporean Police were issued Webley Mk III & Mk IV .38/200 revolvers from the 1930s. Singaporean police Webleys were equipped with safety catches, a rather unusual feature in a revolver. These were gradually retired in the 1970s as they came in for repair, and were replaced with Smith & Wesson Model 10 .38 revolvers. The London Metropolitan Police were also known to use Webley revolvers, as were most colonial police units until just after the Second World War. There may still be some police units with Webley Mk IV revolvers that, whilst not issued, are still present in the armoury.

Gun Digest book page: http://books.google.com/books?id=Lk_cc2gQ-NsC&pg=PA262&lpg=PA262&dq=webley+mk+iii+specifications&source=bl&ots=Ri2k4Zw6bp&sig=26lLD2dXCEasFmw_iAO0lN93WiM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8cyQT9nwLs_XiQK0htCUAw&ved=0CFUQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=webley%20mk%20iii%20specifications&f=false

Some more photos of one: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/firearms-ordnance/webley-mkiii-380cal-1752/

I made a few corrections on the specs. Took the specs from the Gun Digest book link above.
--[[User:Jags|Jags]] 15:31, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

There were still being made [http://www.armsresearch.co.uk/The%20Webley%20and%20Scott%20Achive/Webley%20and%20Scott%20Archive.html till 1948]. Not sure if the lengths from that digest are correct either, but as I can't find any other numbers I'll leave it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:29, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

You are doing good work here. Hold off on making a Mk II listing. The info seems spotty and the only feature that we know featured one of these pre-Mk IV .38 Webleys is the Indiana Jones movie. Fascinating stuff however. I have never heard about the Mk III .38. You learn something new everyday. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:59, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

== Pimped Out Mk VI ==
Wow a pimped out Mk VI. Now I've seen almost everything there is to see, --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:12, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

== Why the change from .455 to .38? ==

From what I've read, the .38 S&W had considerably less stopping power than the .455 Webley. [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series

2013-06-27T22:54:07Z

2wingo: /* Discussion */

__TOC__ 
=Additional Images=
==Screen-used SIG-Sauer Pistols==
[[Image:SIGP220R LiveFreeDieHard.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P220R - .45 ACP. This is the screen used gun carried and fired by [[Bruce Willis]] in ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''.]]
[[Image:Line of Fire Eastwood Gun Left.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen-used live firing '''SIG-Sauer P228'''. This weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[In the Line of Fire]]'', and was carried and fired by [[Clint Eastwood]] in the film. IMFDB thanks [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet] for providing this photo; also see their sales page for the weapon, [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00276&Store_Code=TGC&search=228&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= here].]]
[[Image:Line of Fire Eastwood Gun Right.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The '''SIG-Sauer P228''' from ''[[In the Line of Fire]]'' (seen from the right).]]
[[Image:VirtuosityP228.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A two-tone '''SIG-Sauer P228''' (9x19mm) with Wilcox Industries UITC laser and barrel compensator, as used by [[Denzel Washington]] in the film ''[[Virtuosity]]''. The weapon pictured here is the actual screen-used gun from the movie, one of four that were made for the film. One of these guns is re-used in the film ''[[Barb Wire]]''.]]
[[Image:IMFDB P00268 Sopranos Tony Soprano Sig 226.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor [[James Gandolfini]] in '''[[The Sopranos]]'''. This specific gun was the one fired onscreen when he, Paulie, and Silvio kill Pussy in Funhouse (2.13). More detailed images and purchasing information on this item can be found at [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00268&Store_Code=TGC&search=Sopranos&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:IMFDB P00273 Sopranos Paulie Sig P228.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used SIG-Sauer P228 pistol with non-functional prop silencer - 9x19mm. This live firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor [[Tony Sirico]] in '''[[The Sopranos]]'''. This gun was fired onscreen in the episode A Hit Is A Hit (1.10) during the scene where Paulie and other members of the Sopranos crew pose as furniture movers and ambush a drug cartel bagman and steal his money. After the hold up, Paulie shoots the man in the head at point blank range before making off with his drug money (IMFDB thanks [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet] for providing the documentation on this gun. Contact them via their website for more detailed images and purchasing information on this item.)]]
[[Image:P00619.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used SIG-Sauer P229 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The gun has been modified to fire blank rounds only. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see[http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00619&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:M&MSSIGP229.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Two of the SIG-Sauer P229 pistols used in the film ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]'' - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:IMG 1680.JPG|thumb|none|400px|The actual, screen-used SIG-Sauer P229 used by [[Adam Baldwin]] on ''Chuck''. This weapon was built and supplied to the production by Independent Studio Services. - 9x19mm.]]

==Additional Variants==
===P220===
[[Image:P220 Japanese-ver 9mm Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Minebea P9, Japanese licensed copy of the P220 - 9x19mm]]

===P225===
[[Image:Umarex RWS C225 Target.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Umarex RWS C225 Target, a CO2 powered air pistol based on the SIG-Sauer P225 - .177 pellets]]

===P226===
[[Image:SigP226TwoTone01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A reverse Two-Tone SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm (identical configuration to the gun from ''[[2 Fast 2 Furious]]''; this weapon was assembled and photographed specially for IMFDB by [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]).]]
[[Image:p226_tactical.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226R fitted with a weaponlight - 9x19mm]]
The P226 above looks like an airsoft one to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 19:29, 2 June 2012 (CDT)
:Yep, it is a Tokyo Marui GBB P226. Fitted with an M3 weaponlight. You can tell by the plasticky appearance and the hammer being too far into the rear of the pistol.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:46, 2 June 2012 (CDT)
::And the markings on the slide and the magazine ;) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 08:50, 3 June 2012 (CDT)
[[File:P226 tacops.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226R Tactical Operations - 9x19mm]]
[[File:P226RNAVY.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226 Navy, older model with traditional trigger - 9x19mm]]
[[File:SIG P226 Combat TB.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226 Combat TB - 9x19m ]]
[[Image:220Combat.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P220 Combat - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SigP226TwoTone.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Two-tone SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:X-Five-LW-detail.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer 226 X5 Competition Model - 9x19mm]]

:- Question: In what year did the rail become standard on the P226 so that it was just called P226 rather than P226R? Or is it still called P226R?--[[User:Suceress2|Suceress2]] 11:39, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

::I remember them becoming available around 2004/2005, and then being standardized shortly after (probably by 2006 or so). SIG was still putting out non-rail P226s as recently as 2007 (which is when I first started looking to buy a P226), but they haven't been available since then. Also, the rail was introduced first on the P226 Tactical before it became a standard feature on all 226s and other SIGs. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 11:43, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

:::The last P226 without the rail was the P226 SAS (a dehorned DAK gun), which was discontinued in 2008. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:53, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

::::The name 'P226R' isn't an actual model name, more of a way to distuinguish between rail and non rail SIGs. I don't think that the P226 was ever called a P226R officially by SIG, but I could be wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:02, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

:::::Thank you for the responses! I checked the Sig-Sauer website and couldn't really find much about dates or useful information. I was hoping they would have a nice gallery of the various guns available. They do have quite a few pictures, but I don't think it comes anywhere near showing the full range of the product.--[[User:Suceress2|Suceress2]] 02:45, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

::::::The SIG website is useful for identifying current products, but not so much for old ones. The discontinued page has some good info, but only goes back about the last 2-3 years. I know that the rail was introduced on the P226 Tactical, but I don't remember when that was exactly. I believe that was around 2004 or so, but the rails were not standardized on the P226 until early 2006. SIG offered various models without rails, such as the SAS and German, and I believe they offered something along the lines of Classic, but I might be confusing that with the German. I think that SIG should keep the non rail frame availiable as an option, as there are many people that would pay good money for one.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:36, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

===P228===
[[File:SIG228Stainless.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P228 with stainless slide]]

===P229===
[[Image:sig229Stainless.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P229 with two-tone finish and Crimson Trace grips 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Sig-sauerP229DAK.jpg|thumb|none|399px|SIG-Sauer P229R DAK - 9x19mm (also chambered for .40 S&W & .357 SIG)]]

=Discussion=
===P226R===
I know that the ones with rails are now the standard, and I have tried to find more information on the history of the P226. I've found a few sites that talk about the dates in which certain models were introduced and such, but I have yet to find anything that says when rails were first added to the P226. Does anyone know the approximate year when rails were added? Also, in what year did the rails become standard? I know that the trigger bar spring was completely changed in 1998, but what about the rails?
Oh, and how can I tell a P226R from a P226 E2? Is there a way to tell by looking at the pictures? Someone speculated that the current model used by SSA Derek Morgan on ''Criminal Minds'' is an E2 but I have no idea how to tell.--[[User:Suceress2|Suceress2]] 01:17, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
:I think the way it goes is that they had the P226R which became the standard P226, then they had an upgrade version of this called the E2 (Enhanced Ergonomics) which had a short reset trigger and screwless one piece prip plates, and now this has become the standard P226. The only difference between the E2 (discontinued) and the now standard P226 is that the E2 had an "E2" logo on the front of the slide. As for the Criminal Minds gun, see the talk page there for my opinion on that. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:35, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
::Thank you, Commando552. Do you have any idea of the approximate years when the changes with the rail happened? I looked all over and could not find the year when rails were added or when they became standard. Google searches just kept coming up with a bunch of unrelated stuff. --[[User:Suceress2|Suceress2]] 01:55, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
:::The name 'P226R' isn't an actual model name, more of a way to distuinguish between rail and non rail SIGs. I don't think that the P226 was ever called a P226R officially by SIG, but I could be wrong. As far as when the rail was first made standard, I believe that was 2007.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:26, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
::::That actually was an official SIG designation and marketed as such during the period when standard and railed frames were available concurrently. I don't know exactly when the P226R was introduced, but think it was early-mid 2000's, with the rail becoming standard on the P226 (excluding anti-snag models) in 2005/2006. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:06, 9 April 2012 (CDT)
:::::Oh cool! Thank you for that information! I'm taking down notes on it. I'm now curious about the "anti-snag" models. Did the rails snag on things before being perfected?--[[User:Suceress2|Suceress2]] 02:48, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
::::::SIG produces versions of their pistols known as SAS (Sig Anti-Snag) that have had all the corners and edges smoothed (also called "dehorning" in order to make the pistol less likely to get caught up on clothing. They uses to make an SAS model of the P226 which even after they introduced the rail as standard had the smooth frame, as the rail makes the pistol more likely to snag when used for concealed carry. They don't make the P226 SAS anymore (P226 is rather large for concealed carry afterall) but they do still make an [http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p229-sas-gen-2.aspx SAS model of the P229] which has the smooth frame rather than the railed frame on the [http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p229.aspx standard P229]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:38, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
Finally found it, the rail was first introduced in 2004 with the standard frame being completely phased out in late 2007/early 2008.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:16, 2 June 2012 (CDT)

==P245==
I like the P245. I bought one back in 2000. I owned both the P220 and the P245 for many years and I always found that I shot better with the P245. Eventually traded the P220, but I still have the P245. It's a nice little shooter. But truth be told I did purchase the eight round magazine from Sig. So I guess the P220 Compact just makes more sense. From a business aspect. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

==P228==
I'm a bit confused about the P228. I thought that it has been discontinued for about 10 years. But that the Military uses them and I know that SIG recently came out with a P228R model. So my question is: Is it still being produced or not? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 00:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

:The P228R is a limited production run weapon. SIG had lots of surplus P228 slides, so they modified them to fit P229R frames (even though the 229 has always been a bit wider than the 228). As for the military's use of the P228, that's just because they bought so many of them in the 1990s that they still have lots in inventory. But the original, non-rail P228 (the version still seen in most movies today) has been out of production since 2000, when the P229 in 9mm was introduced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Ok thank you for clearing that up for me. Much appreciated! -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 05:54, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

== P220 ==
Is the P220 still manufactured in any caliber other than 45 ACP? I know the .38 super and .30 luger variants were discontinued but many nations have adopted the 9mm version for Police and Military use so it seems odd they would have discontinued it, yet SIG-Sauer's websight only lists it as comming in .45. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Everywhere I've looked for info says no. All modern (Railed I assume) P220's are strictly .45 ACP.
Personally I like this line of thinking, a single stack 9x19mm seems pointless when you can get a P226, or a P229 and carry more rounds. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 10:55, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

The Swiss military is a big user of the P-220 pistol. I wonder if they might have their own production line somewhere (as they did with the Luger) and just do not offer them commercially anymore. Also, SIG as the monolith that it once was is no more, having broken up into various other companies: the SIG-Sauer brand, now based out of Germany (and responsible for the P-220-5, P-226, P229, SIG-556, and all other continued SIG-Sauer firearms), and Swiss Arms, the manufacturer of the SIG-550 series firearms (the 550, 551, 552, and 553), and others. It is possible that the Swiss government procured the machinery after the demise of SIG to produce the P/75 (as I believe the Swiss military calls it) and is producing them for their own uses. This seems all the more likely when it is considered that an officer in the Swiss military is given the option of purchasing his own service sidearm once he leaves the military (and thus a finite stockpile might soon quickly expire). Just for information's sake, an enlisted person within the Swiss military is given the option of actually purchasing his own service weapon once he leaves the service (this is done by sending it back to the manufacturer were it is converted to a semi-automatic only rifle and then sent to the former soldier). The Chilean government had its own license to produce these domestcally through FAMAE (according to Ian Hogg) though this seems to have expired and FAMAE now produces a variant of the CZ-75 and the Japanese government also license produced the design at one point (perhaps through Howa Industries), although this too seems to have expired, and this is once again according to Mr. Hogg. Just some potential explanations.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 15:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== P6 hammer notch ==

As I actually own a P6, I, as I am sure many other P6 owners have, became curious of and susequently investigated the notch in the P6's hammer. I have heard various reasons for the P6 hammer's notch, including the theory that it was meant to indicate that the gun was dropped or was meant to prevent an accidental firing if it was indeed dropped. Hoever, I have come across another explanation that to me seems a bit more plausible, that it was meant to stick the loop of a retaining holster into, thereby securing the gun into the holster and preventing a drop. To me this seems to be a more potential explanation as who would want to replace a hammer each time the weapon was dropped, espiecially a SIG (not the cheapest of all firearms) and espiecially a model that SIG discontinued quite some time ago. Even finding extra (affordable) magazines for a P-225/P6 is an ordeal, so why would you try and replace a hammer every time somebody might actually drop it. I don't know, but it just does seem the best explanation to me. Also, I do not speak German, so there might be a resource out there that that I cannot utilize that expressly states the reasons for this peculiarity. Once again, just another potential explanation, what do you guys think?[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 15:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Your picture of a SIG-Sauer P228 ==

Your main picture of a SIG-Sauer P228 looks more like a airsoftversion than a real one. The hammer has a slightly different shape than a real P228.

:I don't think it's an airsoft weapon. It was photographed for us by MoviePropMaster2008, who is a movie armorer, so that is a real weapon converted to blank-fire, from his company's inventory. However, he mentioned to me that this particular gun was dropped during a movie shoot and badly damaged, so it had a whole bunch of repairs. He is trying to find a P228 in better condition that he can photograph (preferably, one that was used in a big movie). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== Just wondering? ==

Why do many enthusisests and military forces(Navy seals,SAS,ect) perfer this gun? Is it reliability? the different calibers?

Its exceptionally well made and accurate right out of the box, they're durable, there are a variety of options from cosmetic to alternate materials to alternate barrels and rail systems, and there are a wide variety of calibers to choose from. They're solidly built, reliable, and effective weapon platforms. The only real issue is price but if you're buying something that you want to be able to defend yourself with...any time...in any corner of the world.... then the P22# series is a prime choice.
-Double Agent M

Uhm,I'm just wondering.What is that small thing, which is near safe button? [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 12:21, 4 January 2012 (CST)

Gonna have to be more specific. Are you talking about the magazine release or the slide release? or are you talking about the takedown lever? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 15:50, 18 January 2012 (CST)
:And whats the safe button? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:04, 18 January 2012 (CST)

Modern Sigs do not have an external safety. The controls are from the front as follows: Take down lever, hammer decocker for da/sa models (hole if DAK model), and slide release. [[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]
:Generally true, but there are a few single action only variants of the P220 along with the P226 X-Five that have no decocker, and a frame mounted safety behind the slide release. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:19, 19 January 2012 (CST)

==Confirmation==
I feel stupid for asking this but just to make sure, SIG-Sauer P220 series guns have decockers but no manual safeties right? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

There are some SIG 220 series that come with manual safeties. The P220SAO comes to mind.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 04:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

And I assume the DAK versions don't have decockers. I should have specified that I was wondering about the DA/SA variants. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Ah, there are no manual safeties on non SAO SIGs.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

No problemo.

==P228 vs. 229==
What are the differences between the SIG P228 and P229 other than the fact that the 229 comes in .40 S&W and .357 SIG? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

The P226 and P228 were originally manufactured using a stamped-steel slide on an aluminum alloy frame. The P229 consists of a CNC-milled stainless steel slide, typically colored black with a Nitron finish. The P229's milled steel slide was introduced to handle the higher slide velocities created by the .357 SIG and .40 S&W loads, which the stamped slide of the P228 could not handle without the use of a much stiffer recoil spring.
:So stamped vs. milled slide. Alright, thanks. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==Quick question about SIGs in films and television==

I understand why SIGs are used by the military, police and weapons enthusiasts but I'm just wondering why they turn up so much in films and TV. Are they easy to convert to blanks and thus is the main go-to guns for armorers or is it SIG doing some covert advertising? I remember in the late 90s to early 00s that Glock had an equivalent presence in film and television. It's nice to see SIGs in action but can't they use a wider range of brands? - [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]]

:In movies and TV, SIGs typically are typically shown in the hands of either FBI Agents (which actually issued them in real life) or military Special Forces (many of which also use them frequently). I would imagine that they are common for this reason alone - there are a lot of movies about elite units and federal agents.

:I don't think it has anything to do with them being easy to convert to blanks, because SIGs have a covered barrel whose lock-up at ejection port needs to be milled down in order for blanks to function reliably (unlike Berettas, which have a reputation for ease of blank conversion due to their open-top slides). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:05, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

==SIG-Sauer model used in recent Mythbusters==
I have a short question, in most recent episode of Mythbusters, the trio team testes a myth from Kiss The Girls movie - whether a gun can ignite a room full of gas. They used .44 Magnum, 3rd Gen Glock 17 9x19mm (if I ID'd it correctly) and a SIG-Sauer. The question is what model of SIG-Sauer was used, I'm not sure if it was P239 9x19mm? Also on a side note, they tend to mix the footage of Glock and SIG and also Tory calls the SIG a Glock... (wlw @ 27.11.2010)

== SEALS ==
Does anyone know why the Navy SEALS chose the SIG 226 for their handgun of choice, what handgun it replaced, and why it was chosen over that handgun?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 02:50, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

When the US held pistol trial to replace the 1911 in the 80's, the final two were the m9 and the P226. The M9 won based on cost alone. The SEALS originally used the M9, but after several catastrophic failures they switched to the runner-up, the 226. That was in the 80's, and they are still using it. Says a lot for SIG... I don't know what the SEALS used before, but I would assume it's some 1911 variant. --[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 04:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
:The Navy SEALS also used the Heckler & Koch Mark 23 for a while before switching to the SiG-Sauer P226. Reason being? The H&K Mk 23 was deemed to be a bit of a piece of shit. With a heavy trigger pull and a clunky, unwieldy feel and ability to use, the SEALS kicked that pistol to the curb pretty quick. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 20:53, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
::Form what I heard from people who actually own Mark 23s the trigger pull is better than the USP. :/ I would own a Mark 23 but that's just me, I like big, heavy (actually the Mark 23 only weighs as much as a M1911 handgun), over-engineered weapons that can survive a nuclear explosion. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:15, 5 June 2011 (CDT)

What kind of catastrophic failures was the M9 going through and why didn't other branches replace the M9 with the SIG aside from price?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 17:28, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
: The Slides had a tendency to break; officially as a result of the SEALs using hotter rounds than the weapon was rated for.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
::The other branches didn't feel the need to replace the M9, probably because the SEALS have higher standards for their sidearms. Also, the SIGs were extremely durable, you could take them through saltwater, drag them through sand, even pound it with a jackhammer and they would still fire. The other branches didn't use their sidearms nearly as much as the SEALS. Presently the Coast Guard is using the SIG-Sauer P229, and the actual agency NCIS (naval criminal investigative service, pretty much cops for the navy and marines) use P229s as well. Also, I don't know where you live, but if u live in america go on youtube and search for "nutnfancy p226 part 1" its the first one that shows up. He talks about the history of the P226 and its use with the SEALS.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The SIG P229 is a fine weapon, from my experiance its the best shooting handgun for me. Wonder if the P220 works aswell because I want one.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== New P226 ==

Has anyone seen the new production line SIG P226s? What do you guys think of the new grips? They've got the same grips that the E2 has now. I like them but I will miss the old P226 grips. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:34, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:I honestly think that I am the only one who does not like them. I like how they try to appeal to smaller-handed shooters, but I think they should have kept the "classic" style availiable as well. I handled a classic P226 with the E2 grips installed, and it just didn't feel right to me. They did this to the P229 (my favorite gun) and changed the slide style as well. I will miss the classic grips. (It feels so weird calling the SIGs I know and love the classic version)--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 02:46, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Being a Brit the closest I get to handling a real gun are my airsoft ones, but if I manage to move to America (which is one of my lifes goals) I'd like to get some real guns. One of them is a SIG Sauer P226 but I prefer the classic unrailed frame. I wish SIG still produced those for sale as well. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 04:35, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

You can still get the old grips for SIGs. They sell them on their website, and i'm sure that various other distributors bought ass-loads of them to sell. The new grips give more options to a wider range of shooters. --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 09:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:I've been thinking about ordering a pair for a while. Even though I can get my hand around my 226's grip just fine (the smaller circumference doesn't matter much to me), I've never liked the texture of the previous generation grips. The E2 grip texture is designed to be a lot like the grips on the very earliest P226s (the checker-pattern grips).

:Also, SIG just introduced the "P226 German", which is a rail frame P226 that has the German-manufactured stamped slide of the oldest model P226s. I might have to get one some day - the old stamped slides are WAY superior to the milled slides that have been standard since the late-90s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 10:27, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

When I saw the "P226 German" on their website I was hoping it would be a classic P226 without a rail but it has the rail. I don't understand why they don't still produce unrailed framed P226s. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:55, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

I must admit that I thought the same thing when I saw the German on their site. And i'm sure many other people were just as disappointed when they saw the rail... honestly, I can see where they could be useful, but aesthetically I prefer SIGs without rails. Like the P229 SAS, for instance. --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 22:40, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

They could be useful but SIGs look so much better without them. And there's nothing wrong with the Harries technique in my opinion if you need a flash light. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:11, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

1. The SAS pretty much covers the rail-less Sigs. 2. As I own a 229(R) the rail isnt bad for texture. Really causes no problems holstering. If you dont like the look I dont know what to tell you. Having the rail standard is a good idea because it gives you the OPTION to put a light or laser on your gun. 3. Carrying a light in your off hand will work but putting the light on your gun is a much sturdier option letting you still have full control of your firearm with both hands and the added benefit of the light. [[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

I agree with you on all of these points. We were speaking purely of the aesthetic value of the rails. I'm sure some some people like the looks of them, and personally don't think they're THAT bad. I just feel that SIGs, especially those with the new one piece, snap on grips, look much better without them. --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 22:07, 9 February 2012 (CST)

== P239 Slide ==

As far as I can tell, there are two different slide designs for the P239, the first being the one similar to the P228 that is seen on the gun images for this page, but then you also have a design similar to the P229 that can be seen on the pages for [[Chuck]] and [[Nikita (2010)]] for example. Does this indicate different manufacture date, or does the slide change with calibre? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:23, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
::I think the slide changes as to whether its a 9mm or 40 cal. The reason why the 228 was discontinued in favor of the 229 was that they couldn't make the 228 strong enough to take 40 cal and the 'marketplace' expected any 9mm to be available in .40 SW as well. So I believe the frame can take the stresses of both 9mm and 40 cal and (obviously) the barrel and slides are different. :) Of course, now I expect someone out of the blue to completely prove me wrong .... sigh....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:52, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
:::I believe that is right, just remember that the slides are reversed in the 239 (half serration = 9mm, full serration = 40SW or 357SIG) compared to the 228/229. Also the frame of the 228 is slightly smaller than that of the 229, and old model 229's in 9mm have a slightly smaller frame than those in 40SW, though, if I understand it right, the new model 229's (full cocking serration) use the same frame for both 9mm and 40SW. The size does not make that big of a difference unless you try to put E2 grips onto a 228, where the size difference will prevent them from fitting (unless you got a late model 228 that used 229 frames). Hope that helped rather than confused. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] 07:42, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
::::Thanks, that helps. Assumed it was calibres as the SIG website has current pics of both types, but assumed it was the same way round as P228/P229 and wondered why the most common version in TV is .40 rather than 9mm. Second part has thrown me though, as didn't realise that P229s now had full height serrations. Is there anyway (from a distance without examining frame thickness) to tell the difference between a current P229 and a P228R? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:02, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
:::::The new P229's have the E2 grip which is smaller than the old grip, lack grip screws, and are one piece as opposed to the older 2 piece model. But since the P228R uses a P229 frame and E2 grips can be attached to older P229 frames, and the new P229's can still have the old grip style swapped in if the user so desires, there is no real way without holding it or seeing the stamp on the slide to know for sure.[[User:Dover500|Dover500]] 10:25, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
::::::The extractor on the new P229 is much larger than before.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:16, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

== Broken links ==

Although more correct, when [[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] put "-Sauer" into the titles for the different guns it now means that all of the redirects, like [[SIG-Sauer P226]], don't go to the correct section anymore, along with any links that are in articles (such as <nowiki>[[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]]</nowiki>) that lead to a particular section. I take it there is no way to fix the second problem short of going through every single article and changing it is there? Also, why do we put the dash in SIG-Sauer, as far as I can tell the actual company name is either SIG SAUER, or SIG Sauer. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:26, 17 January 2012 (CST)
:You are right about the title, they never refer to themselves as "SIG-Sauer" but "SIG Sauer". And, right again, theres no way to fix the redirect problem :( --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:29, 17 January 2012 (CST)
::I thought that when SIG joined up with Sauer they put a hyphen between their names. Also, the little thing at the top of the page says that we should put a hyphen.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:53, 17 January 2012 (CST)
::You could always just edit the redirects... Go to the [[SIG-Sauer P226]] page and change where it redirects... I've already done it for the P226 (try the link and see for yourself). Shouldn't be that difficult. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:51, 17 January 2012 (CST)
:commando552 and I were not talking about the <nowiki>[[SIG-Sauer P226]]</nowiki> redirect, but the pages like [[The Negotiator]] or [[XXX]] where the longer <nowiki>[[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]]</nowiki> hyperlink is used. Those now redirect to the top of the page instead of the P226's section. And the only way to fix them is to change them on every page that uses this hyperlink. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:47, 17 January 2012 (CST)
::What he said. I know the first problem is fixable like you said, was going to edit the redirects earlier but didn't in case the name changed again. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:43, 17 January 2012 (CST)
:My bad. Though I will say that this is a perfect reason why using this style: <nowiki>[[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]]</nowiki> is a bad idea (not saying it was your guys fault or anything, just saying that its a good reason to avoid that type of coding). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:55, 17 January 2012 (CST)
Wow, my bad guys, I didn't know it would jack up all the redirects. What if we reverted the page back, but added a note at the top of the page stating that the proper name has the Sauer in it?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:53, 17 January 2012 (CST)
:We should strive to be as correct as possible. If it's right, it's right. I'm willing to put in the legwork. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 22:00, 17 January 2012 (CST)

== P239 & P245 ==

Considering the name of this page is '''P220 pistol series''' shouldn't these guns be on their own page? Thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:22, 9 February 2012 (CST)
:Both the P239 and P245 belong to the P220 line. The P245 is a compact P220 that was replaced by the P220 carry, and the P239 is a compact, single-stack pistol that uses the P220 configuration.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:16, 9 February 2012 (CST)
::Gotcha. Thanx! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 00:18, 10 February 2012 (CST)

== Splitting up this page ==

I wanted to get some feed back on the idea of splitting up this page. I completely understand why the page is all together. These guns are all based on the same frame, etc. That being said, each model has its own variants. The P226 for example has at least 10+ variants, P226 Tactical, P226 X-Five, P226 Navy, etc. etc. It might be nicer to have each of these guns with their own page.

'''IF''' that were to happen this page could be converted into a disambiguation page that list's all the guns that are members of the series. Also, each individual page could mention that the gun is part of a larger series and could have a "See Also". Just food for thought... I would love to hear what people think. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 02:50, 11 February 2012 (CST)

:I'm all for it, as there are some variants that appear in film/TV and we don't even have a picture of them. The downside to splitting this page up is that all the links for the SIG line will be broken, unless there is some all-magical admin power I don't know about.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:56, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

== P228 Picture ==

I believe that this was mentioned before, but the picture of the P228 looks odd. It bears many resemblances to my UHC Spring Airsoft P228, including the trigger, hammer, trigger pin placement, and even warps in the slide and frame. Even if the picture is not an airsoft replica, it does not do the P228 justice. I know how much work it is to find a good P228 to photograph, and then even more work getting the photo right. The picture now looks oddly misshapen, especially around the hammer and trigger guard. If you compare it to the picture of the two-tone P228 on this talk page, the differences are visible --[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:35, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:It's not an airsoft P228, I don't think. It has the exposed top of the barrel milled down, which is part of the blank-fire conversion process for SIGs (and many other handguns). This means that it's a blank-adapted movie gun. It's MPM2008's gun and his picture, so you can ask him how it ended up looking the way it did. He did tell me a while ago that he would look for another 228 to photograph, but he hasn't gotten around to it yet. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:52, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

== P226 vs. HK USP ==

I know,that SIG's are very reliable pistols.But I also have read about USP stress test,where it was frozen and saltwatered and all other heavy conditions.
So I wonder,which of these 2 pistols is more reliable?
:Not reliability per se, but I would say that a USP is more durable than a P226. The P226 uses an alloy frame (on most models) as opposed to the USP which has a polymer frame with steel inserts. The steel inserts are more resilient than the alloy frame which will wear out quicker and need replacing sooner (probably after somewhere in the range of 50,000 - 100,000 shots so is still pretty far off in the future).--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:59, 3 April 2012 (CDT)
Reliability and durability are two different things. The SIG wins reliability hands down, as there are little to no instances of them jamming, even with crappy ammo. The USP is also very good, but I have heard of more jams in them. Not many, but still a few more than the SIG. As the USP is a polymer framed gun, it has a higher chance of 'KBing' (kaboom) where parts of the gun (usually the frame) crack, or even fully break in two two while shooting. Glocks in .40 also do this a lot. As far as durability, the two guns are about equal. The SIG has been dragged through sand, saltwater, driven over by a bulldozer, jackhammered, and then frozen in a block of ice and dropped out of a helicopter onto concrete (and still fired), so I'd say that's a pretty durable pistol.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:48, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

Wow! Is there any link for that stress-test? At least as a article?
Couldn't find it yet. [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 10:03, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
UPD: I,found it! Good! This gun is immortal!
Really impressed. [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 10:07, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

== New P229 ==
Since the new version has the standard slide shape, it's basically both the P228 and P229 at the same time, isn't it? A P228 with the P229's slightly shorter slide length. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:36, 22 June 2012 (CDT)
:It also has an external extractor and has the E2 grips (although grips are changeable so not a reliable indicator). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:58, 23 June 2012 (CDT)
::By P228, I assume you are talking about the P228R. Appearance wise they are similar, but internally they are not. As commando mentioned the external extractor is new, but the new P229 also features the short reset trigger system (which has been reported to fit into a P228, but it isn't officially stated by SIG). The new P229 also uses the .40S&W frame for all calibers (even 9mm). This allows two extra rounds in the 9mm magazine. Because of the two extra rounds, the new 9mm P229 mags don't fit in a P229R or P228.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:41, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::The last models of the P228 (I think SIG dropped the R like with the P226, but we call it the P228R on this site to distinguish it from the earlier non railed models) had the SRT. The P228R that MPM2008 has photographed on the main page has the SRT. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:59, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::::It definitely has a short trigger, but there is no way to tell if it has a short reset trigger. I have read about people who fit the short reset into P228's and P225's, so it is definitely a possibility.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:33, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:P229 new right side.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]

What about naming for this model? Calling it a "New P229" on the site is a bit sloppy IMO, but simply calling it a P229 or a P229R confuses it with the older two models. I'm thinking we start calling it a "P229R-1", because that is how SIG's product numbers refer to it as opposed to the old model. Plus a lot of holster companies list a P229R and a P229R-1, which is the old and new model of P229. But if "New P229" works with everyone else, we won't change it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:45, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

== SL Sport II ==
Does it have the same magazine capacity as the regular P226? - [[User: 2wingo]]
:Yep.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] ([[User talk:--JazzBlackBelt--|talk]]) 17:44, 13 March 2013 (EDT)

== Discountinued ==
Why is SIG-Sauer P220 Sport discountinued (same question for other dis. guns, example: Deagle in .440 and .41)? What's the reason? [[User:TitaniumAlloy|TitaniumAlloy]] ([[User talk:TitaniumAlloy|talk]]) 09:29, 29 April 2013 (EDT)
:I would assume that not enough people were buying them to make it financially viable to keep producing them, pretty much the same as most products that get discontinued. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:33, 29 April 2013 (EDT)

== +P Ammo ==

Can the P228 handle overpressure ammunition? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Pulp Fiction

2013-05-24T21:55:30Z

2wingo: /* Couple's Revolvers */

==I would recommend not opining about price or availability of guns unless you know for sure==
I get thinking when I hear remarks like "that's a rare gun" or "That's an expensive Gun" or "that's a much cheaper gun". I think to myself, "That's a rare gun NOW, but they were a commonplace back in the 1970s and 1980s". That's an age issue. Youngsters tend to only know what's true for the marketplace right NOW, not years ago. Also I would recommend NOT making commentary about availability and pricing because people '''with only gun knowledge of the present day''' cannot make credible commentary about gun availability and pricing when the movie was made. The thing about older members is that they tend to remember what was available and what they paid for guns back in the 1980s or 1990s. I still have editions of SHOTGUN news from 1983-1989. Judging from the distributor ads, I remember what was really cheap and plentiful at certain points in time. I've had to argue with people in the past regarding weapons availability when their only knowledge is guesswork based on what's true today. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:57, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

==Taurus Model 689==
It looks to me as if the cylinder doesn't spin when Man #4 fires at Jules and Vince, can anyone else see that? [[User:Stephenf1234|Stephenf1234]] 00:25, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

==Gun Used in the Posters==
What's the gun that uses Uma Thurman in the Pulp Fiction posters?
Is a Star B? Or a M1911 ?

About the Gun, i ask about the original poster:

http://lentecreativo.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/poster-pulp-fiction1.jpg
http://www.mi-direccion.com/divx/P/Pulp-Fiction-DVD.jpg
http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/images/MiaWallacePulpFiction.jpg
http://www.tarantino.info/wiki/images/Mia-b%26w_shirt-02.jpg
obviously the other poster uses a computer generated or drawn gun.

Thanxs

:Uh, No, that's a photo. Looks to me to be the 1911, which actually has that connection to Travolta's character.-protoAuthor 20:39, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

What is the gun in front of her in THIS photo??? >> http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Pulp-Fiction-Poster.jpg it doesn't look like a standard M1911A1, Travolta's Auto Ordnance or Jule's Star Model B.
:My guess is it is a photo shopped on gun, and isn't accurate. The frame is from a Beretta 92FS but the slide clearly isn't. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:11, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

== Vincent's firearm safety ==

Is it so bad because of his heroin habit ? Also his behavior such as hanging around a place without checking the other rooms first etc ?

I think it has to do with his lack of proper firearms training. And he also just got out of the bathroom, not just showed up.

When he's reading that book, Vincent is totally oblivious to anything going on, as evidenced when he's in the bathroom at the diner and doesn't hear the robbery go down until later. So it makes sense that he didn't realize that Butch had come into the house. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:51, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I think he's talking about the apartment near the start when he never checked the rooms and ended up almost being shot by the guy with the revolver.

well he is clearly untrained because if he was , marvin would still have a face . not to mention , when he is in the bathroom , in both butches house
and the diner , he is unaware of events going on out side . i believe its the fact that he is trained , but not higly . simmons 8492

: I'd say his firearms training (character, not actor) was on a par with most crooks. He knows there is a right end and a wrong end of a gun. He knows pulling the trigger makes it go <bang!>. But the character knows very little about safe handling practices. However, he is willing to shoot other people without any second thought. As for the MAC-10 in the apartment, peeing into a toilet bowl in a small bathroom can be noisy enough to mask other sounds, such as someone entering the apartment and finding the SMG left on the kitchen counter top. And anyway, where are going to put the thing when you're taking a wizz? ''Wraith''

well many people think that the MAC10 is not vincents but marcellus's and he left it to pick up coffiee , which is why he has two cups with him and a bag when butch hits him with his car. also something tells me that he has his para ordanace and not a MAC .. and i like the metaphore that if juleswas still with him he wouldnt have died..[[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Don't go to the bathroom==
It seems to be one of the morals of the film is 'Don't go to the bathroom'. As someone pointed out to me, whenever someone does something bad happens to them....[[User:Foofbun|Foofbun]] 20:19, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

haha, so true --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 08:34, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

yeah thats true(= --[[User: simmons 8492]]

== Couple's Revolvers ==

Does anyone find it ridicilous that Ringo uses a smaller caliber revolver than the girl he's with?
:No...should I?--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 23:23, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

Of course! Because women are genetically weaker than men and must always carry guns smaller than that of a man! Anything otherwise is sin against nature!

I find it more ridiculous that he used a revolver chambered for a totally obsolete cartridge. - [[User: 2wingo]]

== 2002 Trivia Track mistake on the 'Hand Cannon' ==

I remember watching the film with the bonus trivia track some time ago, and it said that the 'hand cannon' was a [[Dirty Harry]] reference and went on to state that the gun 'Man #4' uses is a .44 magnum, which as we now know is incorrect. Of course this doesn't surprise me. Just irks me to see them get the info on the guns wrong sometimes. Of course, the 'Ultimate Edition' First Blood DVD I got is worse, so, bah. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:23, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

Talk:God Bless America (2011)

2013-05-23T23:22:19Z

2wingo: /* Anti gun? */

==Anti gun?==
So how insulting IS this movie to gun owners? I already hate the title. Like Loving America makes you a gun crazy homicidal maniac. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:39, 18 May 2012 (CDT)
:To me it doesn't look like it's anti-gun, it seems to be more anti-reality TV and all the garbage in the media these days. There might be a small anti-gun message but I think based on the trailer it looks like the main core of the film is against all the so called reality TV stuff that seems to keep braindead simpletons entertained. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:32, 18 May 2012 (CDT)
::I have not seen the movie but, seriously? Two disaffected individuals go on a shooting spree? The title is God Bless America all the while the main tactic is randomly shooting people? they get their guns from illegal gun dealers? The main thrust may not be anti gun, but I assure you that the filmmakers definitely drank the anti gun Kool-Aid. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 11:22, 18 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Yeah but you might as well say that films like The Punisher are anti gun if you think like that. The guns are merely a tool for them to get rid of what they see to be a drain on humanity. I do see your point and I'm one of the most anti-anti-gun people in the UK more than likely, but I really don't see an overt anti-gun message in the trailer. Maybe it's more obvious in the film itself but I don't really get a huge anti-gun sentiment from the trailer alone. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:05, 18 May 2012 (CDT)
::::Uh, no, but then art is subjective. You're rationalizing it from a viewpoint of someone who doesn't see guns as a threat to mankind. Again, I would have to see the film in it's entirety but if you cannot see ANY potential for anti gun bias, then it is because you immediately gravitate towards the clear thinking path, not the hysterical, sarcastic, path taken by films like "Shoot Em Up". Hollywood is filled with gun hating left wingers who will use guns and showcase them purely for 'entertainment value'. I work all the time with directors who don't know a thing about guns and yet insists on the most ridiculous stuff (like a shotgun obliterating a door like a howitzer) and in the same breath, condemn private gun ownership. It is good you are not in a region where this type of duality happens. Again, the unsubtle barbs at the idiocy of celebrity or jerk ridden society of this film are not the point of controversy. The implication that any and all unbalanced folks (including minors) can go out and get any firearm they want from illegal dealers is, itself, a biased statement against the gun culture of the United States. IMHO :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 16:13, 18 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::I see your point, however being in the UK I'm in one of the most anti-gun places in the world. I do see your point though, the hypocrasy of Hollywood does annoy me a little, as they are always showcasing all these cool guns in films and then condemning the people who want to own them. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:00, 19 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::: I really don't how it is offensive, I mean, if you're saying "mentaly disturbed man buys guns from an illegal dealer" is offensive, than a whoooooole bunch of not only movies (like [[Taxi Driver]]) but books and videogames are offensive to gun culture. But your opinion is your opinion, man. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:42, 19 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::You're a self described liberal [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]], I fully expect you to not comprehend anything I write anyway :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:58, 19 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::: Isn't it a little, well, stupid of you to judge a movie's message when you haven't even SEEN the movie? - [[User: 2wingo]]

It just looks like a person who has nothing to lose goes out to end all that annoys him no matter the severity of the annoyance, if he tried to do that without a gun he wouldn't get anywhere so it's not insulting gun owners at all. Plus the title is sarcastic to show how media and the modern world has become an annoyance that has spread across america and turned the people into selfish and unpleasent zombie-type citizens. --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 13:33, 18 May 2012 (CDT)
:^This is the point I was trying to make but failing totally as I didn't really know how to word it, so thanks pistolpete for putting it in the way you did :) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:57, 18 May 2012 (CDT)

No problemo Cool-Breeze.--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 13:58, 18 May 2012 (CDT)

==AK47==

That's not a milled receiver. It's a stamped receiver, mostly likely a Chinese Type 56 mpm

Also, in the shot of Frank aiming it out of the window, it is very clear that it has the 'hooded' front sight of a type Type 56

It's a MAK-90. The thumbhole stock was removed, a pistol grip was put on and a wooden 'plug' put in the back so that you wouldn't be stabbed by the protruding metal tang. Also the Front site has the lower "cleaning rod catcher" ground off. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:38, 18 May 2012 (CDT)

== Revolvers ==

The revolver that the gun dealer shows him is a Rossi Cyclops. The one in the office looks like a different Rossi based on the vent rib and cylinder release. I don't have any way to get screen caps from the movie, but I'm positive about the Cyclops. [[User:Spikestarwind777|Spikestarwind777]]
Here is a link to a picture of it: http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg179/python8357/Stuff%201/cyclops.jpg
::Wow! GREAT EYES THERE [[User:Spikestarwind777|Spikestarwind777]]. You nailed it. I just got off the phone with the armorer for this movie and he verbally confirmed that it was the Cyclops. Great catch! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 16:46, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

== Production still ==

I think we have enough so we don't need these on the main page. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 02:56, 6 September 2012 (EDT)
[[Image:God-bless-america-movie-image-03-BHP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Publicity still of Frank teaching Roxy to shoot.]]
[[Image:God-bless-america-movie-image-01-revolver.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Publicity still of the same scene.]]

Talk:Vektor SP1

2013-05-21T04:00:59Z

2wingo: Created page with "== Difference? == Is there any difference between the regular and sport versions besides the compensator? - User: 2wingo"

== Difference? ==

Is there any difference between the regular and sport versions besides the compensator? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:L.A. Noire

2013-05-15T21:11:13Z

2wingo:

== Facial Expressions ==
I've got to say, the facial expressions I've seen for this game are amazingly realistic. I hear you have to do a lot of interrogations and that facial emotions are a big part. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 05:18, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I am not a gamer. Too old I guess. But I am a fan of film noir and the old school detective flicks. Not to mention the newer twists such as ''[[L.A. Confidential]]'' and ''[[Black Dahlia, The|The Black Dahlia]]''. This game looks interesting. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 04:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

== Star Model B ==
As seen in [http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110106233345/lanoire/images/2/29/Screen_shot_34.jpg this screenshot], the weapon that the protagonist uses is a [[Star Model B]], not a Colt M1911. Presumably the weapon designers got access to a movie armory, and subsequently mapped the trademarks off a Star (preferred by movie armorers due to its reliability when cycling 9mm blanks) rather than a Colt. 
[[User:MiPod|MiPod]] 21:34, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
:''"preferred by movie armorers due to its reliability when cycling 9mm blanks rather than a Colt."'' That might have been the case.. in the 70s. Since the mid 80s a better .45 acp blank was developed for use with pistols such as the 1911, prior to this .45 acp blanks were made from cut down .30-06 cases that had hard rifle primers. Other than Pulp Fiction which is old now anyways, do you ever see a Star Model B in a new film? It is cool that they went with the Star rather than the standard Colt 1911. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:54, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
::It doesn't have an external extractor, so I think that the game designers chose the name Star for the in-game gun so that they wouldn't have to pay Colt for naming rights, but I don't think that they are aware of the Star Model B. But thats just what I think --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 21:58, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Well a couple things to add in addition to what Jackbel mentioned. It says Cal .45 on the slide, so that would make it a model P, if it is a Star at all. In addition the dev company's name is Rock*star* games, so they probably used the last half "Star" as a generic name and/ or a nod to themselves.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:09, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
:haha, just noticed that --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 22:22, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
::Ah! I didn't even think of that. However, you can just see the Star emblem behind the word "STAR" on the slide in that picture, so it seems to me that the "Star" is intentional. Also, the two lines of writing, one above the other, in front of the Star name matches the trademarks on a real Star. [[User:MiPod|MiPod]] 00:04, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

It's a hybrid gun if anything. Sure it has the Star markings but there is a noticeable lack of the external extractor, also that gun has no bushing. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 19:07, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:Of course! I knew there was something wrong with the muzzle! [[User:MiPod|MiPod]] 00:46, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Maybe naming it Star is itelf a nod to what the armorers did. Rockstar is known for some far-reaching movie references. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:52, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Rockstar isn't making the game, they're distributing it.

Sorry folks, but it is modeled after a Colt M1911, only the textures are from a Star Model P. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:45, 17 May 2011 (CDT)

== Browning model 1922 ==

In the new "Orientation" gameplay video the protagonist recovers a Browning model 1922 from the trash, interestingly the serial no. appears to be "1138". Perhaps a nod to George Lucas?--[[User:Burton123|Burton123]] 18:11, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I added some images.--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] 19:14, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

== Civilians ==

I'm wondering (As many other are too), whether you will have the ability to be able to kill civilians (Even though you are a police officer), as Red Dead Redemption itself had John Marston "canonically" be a good guy, yet inbetween missions, you could be a cold-hearted killer. I'm wondering if they will do what Assassin's Creed did. You could kill civilians, but you are punished for it, and after completion of the story mode, you have the ability to kill civilians with no punishment (Other than ingame law enforcement). By the way, this game is looking good (Gameplay wise, as well as graphics (I am in no way a graphics whore, as I believe Jurassic: The Hunted graphics were also pretty good). [[User:1morey]] March 19, 2011 4:51 PM (EST)

I heard somewhere (I think GamesRadar) that Cole can't even ''aim'' at civvies. Like in The Punisher game. EDIT: you can't, even grazing one will fail the current case.[[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:51, 23 March 2011 (CDT)

:Actually, you can't even ''take your gun out when you want to'', only when the game instructs you to for a mission --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 01:41, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

== M1911 ==

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! Stop them wagons. How can an M1911 be single-action AND a Semi-Automatic pistol??? It sounds contradictory to me... [[User:1morey]] April 8, 2011 10:25 PM (EST)

It's semi-auto, because it's "one shot per trigger pull, no questions asked". It's single-action, because all the trigger does is drop the hammer. The hammer is automatically re-cocked by the slide's movement when cycling through ammunition. If the hammer is down, you can't fire the weapon unless you cock it manually or by cycling the slide. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 21:30, 8 April 2011 (CDT)

== S&W ==

It looks like the registered Magnum is at least a 7-shot cylinder. from the screen can any one clarify? the bottom round should be hidden behind the crane and frame on a six shot where as the 7 or 8s are exposed on either side. --FuriousOyster
:Nah, it's 6-shot cylinder, it's the angle that makes it look like that I guess. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:52, 25 April 2011 (CDT)

== Browning Hi-Power ==
Are we sure the Hi-power isn't usable in the game? I read on another message board that [WARNING: Possible spoiler ahead] when playing as the character of Jack Kelso the FN Browning is your default weapon. I wasn't sure if this referred to the Hi-power model, so I watched the walkthrough video for the case "A Polite Invitation" on Youtube, and while I couldn't get a clear view of his pistol, he did appear to fire it 12-13 times before reloading. This would definitely indicate a Hi-Power and not a .45.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:38, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

It is. I just got to that point in the game. It is exactly 13 rounds before reloading. Close up you can see it's a Hi-Power. I moved the article up to usable weapons. -- [[User:Glamdring|Glamdring]]

== m1 carbine ==

in some of the war flashbacks you can see m1 carbines.

:Read the page before you post, I've already added that --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 02:00, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

== Disappointment ==

Anyone else disappointed in the lack of useable guns? I mean what the's got to be like 9 useable guns in the game, including the flamethrower. I want to get this game, but I am surprised Team Bondi didn't put in activities or minigames for you to do. I know your a cop and this isn't supposed to be GTA: Vice Cop Stories, but come on! What back in 1947 cops weren't allowed to go home after work, they had 24/7 work hours? I personally think they were so excited about the facial animation system they kinda forgot they were making a game :\. - [[User:1morey]] June 28, 2011 10:57 AM (EST)

:I really don't think every game needs dozens of useable guns. What would be the point of a minigame which taught you to use weapons that weren't in the main game? Just get an FPS if you want that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:17, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

::Right on Tim. :) [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:51, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

What I meant by minigames was stuff like playing golf, going to a bar getting a drink, participating in road shows, going to the movies, etc. And I wanted an assortment of guns that way I'm not always pulling out an Ithaca 37, maybe I would like to use a Winchester Model 1912, or something, give me variety (If they did this, I probably would have "assignmed" weapons for each outfit to use.) - [[User:1morey]] June 28, 2011 5:33 PM (EST)

:Then it would be too much like GTA IV, I don't think it ''needs'' to be too "sandboxy", I think the developers thought the players would be too busy with the cases themselves. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 16:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

:-^right, and it's also in line with the kind of film they are trying to pay homage to. Take a look at some pages for movies of that genre on the site - the same kinds of weapon are either used by many characters, or there are few weapons in the film itself. Rockstar is probably trying to copy that. --[[User:APMG]] January 1st 2012

== S&W 36? ==

This is listed as an S&W 36, but as you can see, it's got a six rounds in it. It's also listed as a .32. Were S&W 36s ever made in .32? Does S&W make a six shot, snub nosed .32? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 12 January 2012 (CST)

[[File:ScreenHunter 01 Jun. 18 22.24.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cole finds the Smith & Wesson]]
[[File:ScreenHunter 02 Jun. 18 22.24.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:It could be a snub nosed [[Smith & Wesson Model 30]]. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:49, 12 January 2012 (CST)
::I agree, like the one below. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:57, 13 January 2012 (CST)
::[[File:S&W Model 30 snub Nickel.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Smith & Wesson model 30 with 2" barrel and nickel finish - .32 S&W Long]]
:::Alright then. I'll change it. Thanks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 12:05, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== S&W Handgun ID ==

Is this a Model 10 or a Model 15? I'm just not sure. It is found in the house of the two dealers with Thompsons in the Downloadable Extra "Reefer Madness"--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 20:21, 15 January 2012 (CST)

[[Image:LANoireS&WHandgun.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Model 10 or 15 Smith and Wesson]]

:If it's fixed sights, then Model 10. But I can't really tell in this picture. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 20:50, 15 January 2012 (CST)
::As it has the semi circular front sight it is a Model 10 (I believe this front sight was only found on the earlier model 10s when it was still called the M&P but not sure). It does have a random sight looking thing slapped on the back, but I think this is just a modelling goof to make it more obvious that the revolver has a rear sight. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:44, 16 January 2012 (CST)
:Now that you mention it, I believe it is a Model 10 also. I'll put it as such and put it under the Non-Usable: Handguns section. I'll replay the beginning of the game and see if it is Cole's duty gun when he was a beat cop and move it accordingly if needed.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:45, 16 January 2012 (CST)
::It would seem odd that there would be two different "duty sized" .38's in-game. It very well could be a copy of Cole's sidearm, and unless someone could screencap the "Colt Offical Police" in the game, I doubt there are two different revolvers.[[User:Glock172|Glock172]] 14:58, 29 January 2012 (CST)
:::Okay, I've confirmed this, the .38 "patrol" revolver that Cole uses in uniform appears to simply be a Detective Special with a longer barrel animated on. This is because it has a snub nosed length ejector rod under the barrel, and is not, in fact, the same as the S&W M&P Victory revolver seen above. Can someone try to screencap the patrolman's revolver? I'm afraid I don't know how. Right now, I can tell you the closest thing it resembles is a Police Positive. [[User:Glock172|Glock172]] 16:09, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

== Type 92 Machine gun ==

Hi, the Type 92 in-game seems to be belt-fed (see [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib4IvBq7Vhc], halfway through), while in reality it's fed by a metallic strip. Does it seem so to you too? --[[User:Amendola90|Amendola90]] 07:23, 21 January 2012 (CST)
:I thought that it was belt fed too, but decided not to put that in the description. Feel free to if you want.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 22:06, 29 January 2012 (CST)

== OT: References ==

Does anyone has idea of which movies are referenced in the game?, thank you in advance for you answers. --[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 20:53, 16 February 2012 (CST)
:Well, in regards to [[L.A. Confidential]] at least, Cole Phelps reminded my of Edmund Exley, Roy Earle of Jack Vincennes and Captain Donelly of Captain Smith. --[[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]] 13:34, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
::You can collect film cans that are 1940s noir films. I only found a few, but there was The Maltese Falcon and The Big Sleep.

== M1 Garand ==
Was playing last night and noticed the M1 Garand was firing off 16 rounds before reloading, anyone else noticed this? --[[User:Theocd|Theocd]] ([[User talk:Theocd|talk]]) 08:22, 24 December 2012 (EST)

== Colt Detective Special entry ==

''Few street cops wanted, nor were authorized, to carry a snub-nosed .38 on-duty.''

Why? - [[user: 2wingo]]

Talk:Beretta 80 Series Pistols - "Cheetah"

2013-05-13T23:21:26Z

2wingo:

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:Scarface Beretta left.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Beretta Model 81 (.32 ACP) as used in ''[[Scarface]]''. The weapon pictured here is the actual screen-used gun used by [[Al Pacino]] in the film. The gun is in good overall condition with some minor scratches and wear caused by its repeated use in numerous action scenes from the film and on subsequent productions. The black Pachmayr grips have been replaced with a newer identical version as the original pair was switched out a number of years ago. The gun has been modified to fire blank rounds only and the barrel has some very minor oxidation/rust spotting that may have resulted from its onscreen use in other productions.]]
[[Image:Scarface Beretta with Supressor Left.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The screen-used Beretta Model 81 from ''[[Scarface]]'', shown here fitted with the removable silencer that was also used in the film.]]
[[Image:Ber84right.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 84B .380 ACP - Left side]]
[[Image:Beretta82.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 82BB - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Beretta85BB.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 85BB - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:Beretta mod 85BB nickel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 85BB - Satin Nickel Finish - 8 round single stack - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:BerettasDieAnotherDay-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 84FS "Cheetah" - .380 ACP as used in the film ''[[Die Another Day]]''.]]
[[Image:BerettaCheetahDieanotherday.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 84FS "Cheetah" fitted with a suppressor - .380 ACP used in the film ''[[Die Another Day]]''.]]
[[Image:P00264 Tony Soprano Beretta 85 PRINT.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Beretta 85BB pistol. This live-firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor [[James Gandolfini]] in '''[[The Sopranos]]'''. This gun was fired onscreen in the episode I Dream of Jeannie Cusamano (1.13) during the scene where Tony ambushes fellow mobster Chucky Signore ([[Sal Ruffino]]) on the docks and pulls this gun out of a fish’s mouth before using it to shoot him. (IMFDB thanks [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet] for providing the documentation on this gun). Contact them via their website for more detailed images and purchasing information on this item.]]
[[File:Beretta84TT.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 84FS with Two Toned finish .380 ACP]]

== "BB" ==

What does that stand for? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Winchester Model 1866 "Yellow Boy"

2013-05-08T07:08:34Z

2wingo:

Is adding "Model" really neccessary? I always skip that because it makes the name even longer. With all the Winchester rifles, I just say "Winchester 1886 'Yellow Boy'", "Winchester 1873", "Winchester 1892". I'll continue to skip the Model part, but I guess now it matches all the other Winchester page titles.

::That's the reason I moved it. It fits into the naming nomenclature for all the Winchester YEARS. If someone wants to scan and look for a certain year, eliminating the word MODEL pops the 1866 to the top of the list, out of chronological order. You can continue to list it just as the 1866 or Yellowboy on all of the movie/TV attribution pages, but the primary gun page should following the naming nomenclature for all the Winchester Model firearms. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The Winchester from "Did You Hear About the Morgans" is not a Winchester 1866 "Yellow Boy". It is a gold plated 92 or 94 Commemorative model. I have not found a match yet though it has stars around the receiver similar to the "Lonestar Commemorative" but the medallion in the stock is different (See [http://www.facebook.com/notes/did-you-hear-about-the-morgans/did-you-hear-about-the-morgans-memorable-quotes/346425408978 promotional photo of Sarah Jessica Parker with the rifle])

So, what's up the muskets? Why create a variation of a gun that is based on completely obsolete technology? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Night of the Living Dead (1968)

2013-05-03T08:05:59Z

2wingo:

== Guns used by the rednecks ==

I See a lot of lever rifles in the possy and the sheriff apprently uses a bolt action rifle, please if anyone have the movie help me to put some screencaps.

I'll see about doing a few caps tonight. I think I still have that dvd. (krispic)

Welp, cancel that. You've got pretty much all the usable pics already. I posted a couple of clearer caps but there's not much really visible in that movie that hasn't already been identified. The sheriff's rifle is never seen enough to get a decent cap of any sort. The only time he's seen actually shooting, it's a handgun. (krispic)

Yeah this movie was tough to screen cap due to the poor quality. I guess you can’t expect too much from a B&W low budget independent film made in the 60s. Really dark in some scenes and during the daytime scenes the sunlight basically causes a whiteout. I didn’t think that the one posse member used a Lee Enfield No.1 Mk3 because to me it looks like the barrel is much longer, but I guess that is just a branch or something in the background. That one screen shot you put up is really good, is that like a deleted scene? Anyway good job identifying some of the rifles. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 18:55, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

One big prob is that most scenes with firearms are also capped from the tv broadcasts making them even worse. The Lee Enfield is pretty much definitely the No1 Mk3. Have one here that I could measure. It's exact. The receiver bolt bridge is visible in the pic just above the back edge of the magazine and the rear sight, mounted on the barrel is in line with his chin. The stock is cut just right at the barrel band and the muzzle is just above the tv screen edge. Even the magazine lanyard chain loop is visible right in front of the magazine.

That one cap is the very last shot just before the fellow shoots Ben....his elbow is visible in the cap with the chief and the guy who shoots Ben aiming his Ithaca. It's probably the best danged cap in the entire movie. It's a real quick clip.

The white pants/pistol cap is the wrong shape and too short in the front to be a 1911. It's almost certainly a Walther PPK or even a PP, the holster is a strong giveaway, too. I'd label it as such, but I think there would be too many arguments. It's just not clear enough. (krispic) feb 21, 06:59

== Winchester ammo ==

When Ben discovers the gun and ammunition in the close there's a blink and you'll miss it kind of moment. If you pause the movie you can see not only the "Kleanbore" label indicating Remington brand ammo, you can also see "32" on the side of the box, suggesting the 94 isn't chambered in .30-30.
:Since this film is in the public domain, can you get a cap? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 19:50, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
:: I'm afraid my image capturing abilities are quite crude and primitive. My work on the page for Return of the Living Dead 2 is proof of that. --[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]
:::And you know, it could just be a random box of ammo. I've seen [[Violent_City#Armalite_AR-7|plenty of]] [[Legacy_of_Rage#Smith_.26_Wesson_Model_29|gun/ammo mismatches]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 19:23, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Public Domain ==

Not related to the guns within it, but this movie, for reasons which I'm not 100% clear on, was never copyrighted by George Romero, and as a result anyone can recut the movie into their own edition and legally sell it as their own original work. - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Single Action Army

2013-04-06T17:14:11Z

2wingo:

==Other Variants of the Single Action Army==
[[File:CimaronSAA ModP Nickel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cimarron Model P (Copy of the Single Action Army) Nickel Finish - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Peacemaker.gif|thumb|none|400px|Denix Replica Single Action Army - .45 Long Colt. This none firing zinc replica is typically not used in films, but could possibly be used as a stand-in prop. Note the extra long cylinder lock cuts on the cylinder, indicating the revolver is a prop.]]
[[Image:Colt saa4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel. This is the screen used gun used by [[Henry Fonda]] and [[Charles Bronson]] in [[Once Upon a Time in the West]], with nickel finish.)]]
[[Image:ColtSAA5inArtillary.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 5" barrel. This is the screen used gun used by [[Jason Robards]] in [[Once Upon a Time in the West]], with blued finish.)]]
[[Image:Colt 1873 Civilian Model.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army "Quick Draw" - .45 Long Colt.]]
[[Image:ColtSAACustomQuick&Dead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The Custom engraved Colt Single Action army used by [[Lance Henriksen]] in ''[[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]'' - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:SAA3.5in.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Sheriff's Model Single Action Army w/ 3.5" barrel - .45 LC.]]
[[Image:Uberti_bird'shead.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Uberti Repicla Single Action Army sporting the bird's head grip modification to make the gun more concealable ]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Quick-Draw 38 Special.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 4.75" barrel, referred to as "Quick-Draw" or "Civilian" model, custom engraved with ivory grips - .38 Special]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadEMFHartfordSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The EMF Hartford Single Action Army with an aluminum lightweight 4 3/4" barrel and nickel finish and holster used by [[Sharon Stone]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]]. - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:TheQuickandtheDeadCimmaronSAALMO.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The two Cimmaron Arms Single Action Army 4 3/4" Quickdraws with engraved nickel finishes and holsters used by [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] in [[The Quick and the Dead (1995)]] - .45 Long Colt. Source: Supplied by Long Mountain Outfitters.]]
[[Image:HandOfGod.jpg|thumb|none|400px|One of the Single Action Army "Hand of God" live-firing revolvers used by [[Russell Crowe]] in [[3:10 to Yuma]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA Hidalgo.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Replica Colt Single Action Army Revolver - .45 Long Colt. This is the screen used gun, held and worn by [[Viggo Mortensen]] in ''[[Hidalgo]]''.]]
[[Image:SingActArm2To.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Frontier Scout Revolver - .22 LR.]]
[[Image:Small_killbill-Bird'shead.JPG‎|thumb|none|400px|Single Action Army .45 Long Colt with nickel finish, pearl "Bird's Head" grips, and custom muzzle brake. This is the actual screen-used pistol seen in the film [[Kill Bill Vol. 2]]]]
[[Image:Earpbuntline.jpg|thumb|none|400px|EMF/Uberti Buntline Special used by [[Kurt Russell]] in the film Tombstone. Due to the fact that current production Colt Buntlines are only available in 12" barrels, the film's armorer contacted EMF/Uberti to have three custom Buntlines made for Tombstone. From the personal collection of the film's armorer [[Peter Sherayko]].]]
[[Image:ColtSAA HandOfGod.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army Fast Draw Model "Hand of God" - .45 LC]]
[[Image:Montewalshcolt.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt 1873 [[Single Action Army]] w. 7.5" barrel. This is the Hero Colt (Serial Number 4562. Mfd. 1874) used by [[Tom Selleck]] in ''[[Monte Walsh (2002)|Monte Walsh]].'']]
[[Image:Pattoncoltright.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with 4.75" barrel, ivory grips, and custom engravings as carried by General George S. Patton - .45 Long Colt]]
[[File:BowenColtFlattopSA.jpg|thumb|none|400px| Flat-top target model with ivory grips. this specimen was manufactured in 1895. It can be seen at the Gene Autry museum.]]
[[File:87 118 47 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[File:Colt Single Action Army.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army with wooden grips - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:Colt Single Action Army Cavalry.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Action Army w/ 7.5" barrel known as the "Cavalry" model with ivory grips]]

==We will be spending an eternity getting all the SAA entries==
To get this current we are missing many instances of the SAA in the countless Westerns (or even non-westerns) films and Television shows, going all the way back to the Silent era. It will take a long time, but we must do it. Anyone familiar with the SAA's usage in film/television will immediately know that we've only mentioned a FRACTION of the times the SAA has appeared over the last 100 years of cinema. MPM2008

Makes me want to go back to bed just thinking about it. If I wasn't at work right now I would. Big job ahead of us.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

== Colt Bisley ==
The Colt Bisley was not produced in Bisley. Bisley is not a factory, it's a world-famous shooting range and mecca for competitive shooting, so when they introduced a target model they called it the Bisley model. The only British-made Colts were percussion revolvers made between 1854-1856.

== Fun little quote about the Single Action Army ==
Eh, I just thought I'd throw this in for a little bit of fun and praise to this firearm:

'''"Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize."'''

--[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 11:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Appearances ==

Wouldn't it make sense, regarding the sheer amount of appearances that this gun has, for someone to put them in lists by variant, then alphabetize those? --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] ([[User talk:Sangheili1155|talk]]) 15:16, 16 November 2012 (EST)

== Ammo ==
How common is .45 Long Colt today? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:36, 5 March 2013 (EST)

It's common enough honestly depends on the loads you're looking for, most of the online stuff is out but you'd be able to find some at local gunshops. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 17:45, 5 March 2013 (EST).
: What exactly are "loads?" - [[User: 2wingo]]
The rounds, ammunition, cartridges, et al. Basically it's what you load in the brass to shoot, lots of different loads for .45 Colt. Hunting, target shooting, self defense. The sky's the limit dude. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 10:51, 7 March 2013 (EST).

== Fanning the hammer ==

Can this be done with any single-action revolver, or only on older models without the modern internal safeties? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:The Quick and the Dead (1995)

2013-03-29T05:47:29Z

2wingo: /* Sam Raimi */

I know I have a problem shaving screencaps off, but pretty much all of these had something important to show. I'll admit with LMS, only two people used .45s and 28 shots aren't neccessary but 25 shots for a bunch of people seems slightly more reasonable. -GM

==Sam Raimi==
I doubt he'd ever read this, but I thank him tremendously for giving us so many clear shots of guns in the film. His closeups are similair to Sergio Leone's, only the film is clearer and more impressive methods are capable. A fine director he is. -[[User:Gunmaster45|GM]]

:He's a very good director, but he's also an ultra-liberal, sadly. The fact that he has so many good shots of the guns says something of his hypocrisy, I think. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:34, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
::Damn shame, I just wish I could have a sitdown with these guys and tell them how stupid and pointless gun control laws are. -GM

Call me strange for saying it, especially on this site, but the fact is that not everyone should have weapons. It's not my place to say exactly who should and shouldn't have them, but i believe that the right to bear arms should be earned, and that gun control laws aren't completely pointless.
:Going by that logic, people should also have to "earn" their right to voice their opinions and their right to believe in their choice of deity or no deity at all. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:53, 6 March 2013 (EST)
:: I'm sorry to just intrude, but I have to put it out there that even inalienable rights should have reasonable limits on where, when, and how you exercise them. You can't scream "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater when there isn't one, you can't walk down a crowded street firing a gun into the air, and you can't go around committing human sacrifice just because your religion tells you to, because all of these things infringe upon the rights of others. - [[User: 2wingo]]
----

That man with the Marlin Ballard is Dog Kelly, played by Tobin Bell. i took the liberty of fixing that.

== Single Action Army ==
Wouldn't it be more pertinent to arrange the screenshots per version used rather than having a whole gob of gun pics followed by a whole gob of screenshots? For example, having the picture of The Lady's SAAs heading screencaps of The Lady with her SAAs, then the pic of the cavalry model followed by screencaps of all the cavalry SAAs used in the film, and so on. It would break down some of the confusion of identifying which is which for people who aren't necessarily revolver aficionados. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:49, 6 March 2013 (EST)

Talk:(In The Line of Fire) - Composite Pistol

2013-03-26T03:45:04Z

2wingo: /* Why? */

== Why? ==

Why did it have to be destroyed after the film was made? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:(In The Line of Fire) - Composite Pistol

2013-03-22T06:17:17Z

2wingo: Created page with "== Why? == Why was it destroyed after the film was made? - User: 2wingo"

== Why? ==

Why was it destroyed after the film was made? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Smith & Wesson Model 29

2013-03-20T20:37:04Z

2wingo:

__TOC__ 

==Separate pages for 29 and 629?==

- I only ask because having the 29 and 629 both under one page is a bit confusing, especially when the rest of the earlier Smith and Wesson guns (pistols included) all have separate pages for each of the blue steel guns and their stainless counterparts. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:32, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

:I agree, but I should leave to an admin to do --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 01:48, 20 April 2011 (CDT)

::DONE! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:24, 8 February 2012 (CST)

==Other Variants==
[[Image:CallahanModel29.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Smith & Wesson Model 29- .44 Magnum. Used in [[Beverly Hills Cop 2]] and [[Taxi Driver]].]]
[[Image:S&WModel29 Enforcer.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 - .44 Magnum. This is the Screen used Model 29, carried and fired by [[Clint Eastwood]] in the movie [[The Enforcer]].]]
[[Image:Smith&WessonModel29DeadPool.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 - .44 Magnum. This is Clint Eastwood's actual screen used Model 29 in the movie [[The Dead Pool]]. It has all the scuffs from the scene on the docks when it was dropped and kicked.]]
[[Image:Model 29 Custom.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 with nickel finish - .44 magnum.]]
[[Image:Smith wesson 44mag 8inch barrel.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 revolver with 8 3/8" barrel - .44 Magnum]]

== Before S&W 686 ==

Before stainless revolvers of S&W 686. They used 44 magnum revolver of S&W 629 in movies since 1981. Later in the late 80's, They used Smith and Wesson 686 instead sometimes in some movies.

== .44 Special ==
Can .44 Magnum revolvers chamber the .44 Special as well? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Kick-Ass 2

2013-03-18T23:42:00Z

2wingo: /* Hit-Girl chambering the Glock */

I hope I can get some help identifying the rest of these guns. --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] ([[User talk:Redram355|talk]]) 18:47, 18 March 2013 (EDT)

== Hit-Girl chambering the Glock ==

I thought you couldn't manually chamber a round on a Double-Action-Only pistol. - [[User: 2wingo]]
:You can't manually cock the hammer on a DAO pistol, chambering a round is different and is the act of pulling back the slide to pick up a round from the magazine and insert it in the chamber. This is a necessity for any automatic pistol to fire, be it a DAO, SAO or DA/SA. You can't just insert the magazine into the grip of a pistol and fire it, you need to put a round in the chamber first. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:32, 18 March 2013 (EDT)
:: Thanks. I'm still a little fuzzy on the meaning of "double" and "single" action in regards to semiautomatics. - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:FN Five-seveN

2013-03-18T23:15:22Z

2wingo: /* threaded barrel and silencer aftermarket item */

==Additional Images==

[[Image:Five-seveN USG OD Gre.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN Five-seveN USG with olive-drab frame - 5.7x28mm]]

hello, (my first post ever here)

can someone edit the page itself so it is referred to as:
"FN Five-seveN"
(I don't know how to do this, I came across this issue when trying to search for this firearm but struck me a strange that there was no entry for it, then I realised the description is incorrect in the database)

that, I have seen, is the official designation by Fabrique Nationale de Herstal (and FNH USA):
http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF003&gid=FNG001&mid=FNM0004
http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF003&gid=FNG001&cid=FNC01

also, should I edit all other references of "FN Fiveseven" to "FN Five-seveN®", adhereing to FNH's registered trademark usage,

thanks(!!)
:The name change is done. I don't know if the trademark thing is really necessary, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:44, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

==Stopping Power of this pistol?==

First Person Shooter games I've played featuring PDWs often have them possess a low damage-per-bullet firing ratio. This, of course, is usually made up with a high firing rate for the PDWs, but both the Five-SeveN and HK's "Ultimate Combat Pistol" are semiautomatic. I've heard criticism about how PDW rounds with their low diameter supposedly have low stopping power (especially in semiautomatic pistol applications), but I'm not sure just how close to reality it is.

I can't help but wonder if FN saved the medical data from the Fort Hood massacre to determine just how much stopping power the Five-SeveN actually has on unwilling human subjects. After all, I'm sure the autopsies (for those who died) and the trama reports (for those who survived) are quite detailed with respect to which ammunition was used, how the victims were hit and why they died or survived. Could be quite interesting for someone looking to "improve" the lethality of the ammunition and "reduce the failure rate." While "live" weapons testing on live human beings (much like how feudal Japanese swordsmiths often handed their creations to skilled swordsmen to chop cadavers or execute condemned criminals all in the name of weapons testing) is clearly unethical and legally banned today, I am still driven to wonder if such study methods would be more accurate than testing on ballistic gelatin, cadavers, etc.

I also hear that the HK UCP was cancelled, though I can't find out the exact reasons why. Pff, there is no "ultimate weapon" in a class for all situations, and to claim otherwise is arrogance at best and false advertising at worst. Maybe it would have succeeded if it was a machine pistol, could take the MP7's 40-round magazines, and called the MP7 UCP (which in this case would stand for "UltraComPact").

In any case, I'd like this cleared up on whether this popular perception of PDW rounds having low per-bullet-stopping power ratios is accurate or not. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:33, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

First rule in terminal ballistics is Shot placement. that is the most important aspect of killing anything with bullets. second is the size and design of those bullets. With any given bullet design the size and weight of the bullet is some indication of how much damage it will do. The issue with PDW rounds is that they take an assault Rifle round and put it into pistol sized pacage. this means that the penatration is better than a normal handgun round but the damage is not that much better. There is a reason why such weapons as 5.56mm Entryguns are so popular.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 04:40, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

== The Hit List (2011) ==

Just a heads up: the Five-seveN is used extensively by the villain in The Hit List (2011), and there is even a scene where detectives have a conversation about the gun. I noticed the movie doesn't have its own article yet, but I added it to the films list in this article. [[User:MDM282|MDM282]] 23:21, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

== threaded barrel and silencer aftermarket item ==

May I grin at the idea of a silencer on a pistol with a muzzle velocity at least twice the speed of sound? I know that silencers are useful for supersonic rifles in at least confusing the source of the muzzle blast at a distance, but pistols are used at short range. 9mm with silencer is used with ammo with 147gr bullet at subsonic velocities. Any rational for silencing a pistol with supersonic ammo, beyond reducing the level of report that reaches the shooter? Or is there a reason it is an aftermarket item only? --[[User:Carl N. Brown|Carl N. Brown]] 09:54, 4 August 2012 (CDT)
: Doesn't it also reduce the muzzle flash? I've heard that the 5.7 generates a really bright one, so a suppressor seems like it would be useful. - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Kick-Ass 2

2013-03-18T22:56:04Z

2wingo:

Talk:M1911 pistol series

2013-03-18T03:37:34Z

2wingo:

==Additional Variants==
===Screen Used===
[[Image:EnemyofState1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Screen-used original Colt M1911 pistol wielded by [[Gene Hackman]]'s character Brill in ''[[Enemy of the State]]'', serial #357414 (photo from Long Mountain Outfitters).]]
[[Image:M1911WeWereSoldiers.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Screen used M1911 pistol (Hero Gun) carried and used by [[Sam Elliott]] as Command Sergeant Major Basil Plumley in ''[[We Were Soldiers]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1WeWereSoldiers.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Screen Used Hero Gun M1911A1, carried by [[Mel Gibson]] as Lt. Col. Hal Moore in the film ''[[We Were Soldiers]]'' - .45 ACP. Provided by Cinema Weaponry.]]
[[Image:ColtMkIVSilver DeNiro Machete.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Custom engraved nickel plated Colt MKIV Series 80 with pearl grips - .45 ACP. This is the screen used pistol for [[Robert De Niro]] playing Senator McLaughlin in the upcoming Robert Rodriguez film [[Machete]] (scheduled for release on April 16, 2010). ]]
[[Image:ColtCustomXXX.jpg‎|thumb|450px|none|This is the screen used Colt XSE M1911 Pistol, wielded, carried (and lost) by August Gibbons ([[Samuel L. Jackson]]) in the film ''[[XXX 2: State of the Union]]''. This pistol has a customized slide with the initials "A G" etched (for "Augustus Gibbons") and also has the logo for SEAL TEAM 4 in the center - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:T2M1911detonicsprop.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The Colt/Detonics M1911A1 Series 70 hybrid pistol used in the film ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]'' - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:Saradet.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Detonics 1911 used in the film ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]''. Image courtesy of ScreeUsed.com]]
[[Image:TitanicM1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A Nickel-Plated ''[[Titanic]]'' M1911 from Stembridge Gun Rentals - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:P1010522ig5.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Actual D&L Sports Professional Model Longslides - .45 ACP movie props used by the Comedian [[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]] in ''[[Watchmen]]''.]]
[[Image:Wanted_21.JPG|thumb|none|450px|The Safari Arms Matchmaster used by [[Angelina Jolie]] in the film ''[[Wanted]]'' - .45 ACP. Note Safari Arms Lion logo.]]
[[Image:1911-The Getaway.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Government Commercial M1911 - .45 ACP used by [[Steve McQueen]] in the film ''[[Getaway, The (1972)]]''.]]
[[Image:M&MSColtXSEusedinfilm.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The Colt M1911A1 XSE - .45 ACP used in the film ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]''.]]
[[Image:ColtM1911A1PunisherProps.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The two blank firing prop custom Colt M1911A1s used in the film ''[[Punisher, The (2004)]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:NashBridges1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Nash Bridges' Custom 1911 - .38 Super. This is the actual pistol that was used by [[Don Johnson]] in the show ''[[Nash Bridges]]''.]]
[[Image:Colt-M1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The actual M1911A1 [[Pierce Brosnan]] used in ''[[The World Is Not Enough]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SerenityM191A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Jayne Cobb's Mocked-Up Custom M1911A1 - .45 ACP used in the film ''[[Serenity]]''.]]
[[Image:P00654 1911 Full Left.jpg|thumb|none|450px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Colt M1911 with Nickel-plated and pearl grips - .45 ACP pistol. This non-firing prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film '''[[The Other Guys]]'''. The gun is accompanied by the Galco shoulder holster and clip pouch also used in numerous scenes from the film. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TGC&Product_Code=P00654&Category_Code=OtherGuys here].]]
[[Image:IMG 1509.JPG|thumb|none|450px|A Strayer Voight Infinity - .45 ACP. This is one of the actual guns that has been used by The Company henchmen on ''[[Heroes]]''; this weapon was supplied to the show by Independent Studio Services and has been used on every season.]]
[[Image:IMG 0444.JPG|thumb|none|450px|[[M1911|Colt MK IV Series 80]] - .45 ACP This was used in the film ''[[Street Kings]]'' and the series ''[[Chase]]'' and ''[[Dark Blue]]''.]]

===Airsoft Variants===

[[Image:CobrGold1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Perfect airsoft replica of [[Cobra]]'s Colt GC National Match - 9mm Pistol made by Western Arms.]]
[[Image:Htk1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft replica of Storm's M1911A1 from ''[[Hard to Kill]]'' - made by Western Arms.]]
[[Image:WA490 4 mark.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Long Slide Jim Hoag M1911A1 replica - .45 ACP, very similar to what Frank ([[James Caan]]) used in the film ''[[Thief]]''.]]
[[Image:Snake_.45-2.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Sheriff Co. "Custom M1911" Airsoft Gun - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Baby1.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Airsoft WE HiCapa 5.1 Full Metal Dragon Custom M1911 (Type B) Black Model with blue LED lights in the grip - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Detonics CombatMaster M1911 airsoft.jpg|450px|thumb|none|WE "Caspian Arms" M1911 replica of a Detonics CombatMaster M1911 or a Colt Officer's ACP - .45ACP]]
[[Image:Colt M1911.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Yu Teng 'YT385' replica of the original Colt M1911A1 model - .45ACP]]
[[Image:Umarex Tokyo Soldier 2011 C.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Umarex Tokyo Soldier TS2011 C Airsoft Pistol]]

===Other Variants===
[[File:M1911A1PreWar.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Detailed screenshot of prewar M1911A1]]
[[Image:Kongsberg M1914.JPG|thumb|450px|none|Kongsberg M1914 - .45 ACP. The Kongsberg M/1914 is a Colt M1911 pistol produced under license by the Norwegian factory Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk, with a minor modification to the slide stop and stock.]]
[[Image:.38Super1911MachinePistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The real-life Dillinger's .38 Super M1911A1 Machine Pistol, for comparison purposes.]]
[[Image:ED 45.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AMT Hardballer Longslide with laserlock sight as used in the film ''[[The Terminator]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:AMT_Hardballer_Hitman_Replica.jpg|390px|thumb|none|A near-perfect, firing, replica of the "Silverballers" from the Hitman series.]]
[[Image:0862731R.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M1911A1 Commercial (Same marks of the movie's pistol) - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:M1911A1ithaca.jpg|thumb|none|450px|World War II Ithaca made M1911A1 with light grey finish - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:PublicEnemies1.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Pre-War Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP used on ''[[Public Enemies]]'' (2009)]]
[[Image:SW1911pd.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911PD Tactical Rail - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:1911 Longslide.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP. This model is very similar to the one in the episode on the ''[[Miami Vice (TV Series)]]''.]]
[[Image:Colt45.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M1911A1 .45 ACP with Pachymar grips]]
[[Image:Taurus PT1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Taurus PT1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Bruni8mm.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Bruni M1911A1-style blank firing stage prop - 8mm blank.]]
[[Image:Peter-1-5006-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Federal Ordnance PSP-07 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:TIKI.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Strayer Voight Infinity TIKI - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:CustomM1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom Colt Series 80 M1911A1 pistol similair to one in the film ''[[Street Kings]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:LaserAimSeriesIIIPistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|LaserAim Series III Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ColtDefenderRIGHT83.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Defender - .45 ACP was similar to the one used in the game ''[[Uncharted 2: Among Thieves]]''.]]
[[Image:GM45M1911A1-3.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Hybrid 1911 "Gladys" fitted with a nickel plated three cut compensator - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Delta 001.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Delta Elite - 10mm Auto]]
[[Image:SM178017.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911 Pro Series - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:SW108282.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:FLX 2.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Nighthawk FLX - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Triple_Tap_IMM_Open_pistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|This SVI 1911 - .45 ACP is almost exactly like the one used in the film ''[[Triple Tap]]''. The description on the website reads, "IMM Open pistol made of carbon steel with Titanium compensator." (Picture supplied by sviguns.com)]]
[[Image:ColtM1991A1L.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt M1991A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:The Veteran Colt 1991A1 Series 80.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt M1991A1 Series 80 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1USAF.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Black Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[image:Razorcat.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Limcat Custom 2011 RazorCat - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Sight-Tracker.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Strayer Voigt Infinity Sight Tracker - .40 S&W. This is one of 10 pistols custom made by SVI for the television show ''[[Top Shot - Season 3|Top Shot]]''.]]
[[Image:MV_Tiki.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Crockett loads up his [[Strayer Voight Infinity TIKI]].]]
[[Image:Infinity_tiki1911.jpg‎|thumb|300px|none|SVI TIKI.]]
[[File:Umarex 1911 blank firer right side.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Umarex Colt Government 1911 A1, right side showing the external extractor and slide markings - 9mm P.A.K. blanks]]
[[File:Her Arms CPE.jpg|450px|thumb|none|[[Hera Arms CPE]], a carbine conversion kit for MILSPEC M1911 variants - .45 ACP]]
[[File:MOH Warfighter Vickers Tactical 1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom-built Vickers Tactical 1911 for the game ''[[Medal of Honor: Warfighter]]'' - .45 Auto]]

==Video game appearances of this pistol series==

Why is it that the "Video Game appearances" tables have a column named "Passwords"? I don't think it's for passwords to unlock them, because to my knowledge very few video games actually have a password system to unlock weapons. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a "Notes" after the "Mods" section where certain pertinent but miscellaneous information can be written, such as what copyright-infringement-avoiding name it goes under in the game, or whether it is chambered in a non-standard caliber?

I'd like this cleared up. Oh, and someone needs to include a note saying that "mods" is short for "modifications/customizations for the weapon," not "downloadable modifications to the game itself."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 06:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Frankly I think both the "Mods" and "Passwords" sections can go, since the latter is pointless and the former's purpose can be adequately served by "Notes". --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 15:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

==Colt Government Model Section==
With regard to the following sentence:

''"Aside from Colt selling the M1911A1 to the US military, the gun was also sold under the name "Colt Government Model" to the civilian market, and called the "Pre-Series 70" guns today."''

First, the Colt Government Model was introduced in 1912, and as such, it was originally in the M1911 configuration. When the U.S. Military switched to the M1911A1 configuration in the mid 1920s, Colt began manufacturing their Government Models in the M1911A1 configuration as well. So early Government Models parallel the military's M1911 configuration, while later Government Models (after the mid 1920s) parallel the military's M1911A1 configuration. Additionally, not only pre-Series 70 guns are Government Models. Series 70 and Series 80 guns are both Government Models. In fact, Colt still makes the Government Model to this day in various configurations.

With regard to the following sentence:

''"For IMFDB purposes, this can also be referred to as an M1911A1. In this manner, there is no need to list film, television, anime, video games in this section."''

It is sloppy to refer to a Colt Government Model as an M1911A1. "M1911A1" is the U.S. Military designation for a particular type of gun, and most of them were not even made by Colt (Remington Rand [the typewriter company] made most of them). I can see referring to a gun as an "M1911 type" or "M1911A1 type" if the manufacturer can't be determined, but when you simply type "M1911" or "M1911A1" you are referring to a U.S. Military contract pistol.

On top of that, the pictured gun in the Colt Government Model section is not even a "Pre-Series 70", it is a pre-enhanced Series 80 Government Model.

--[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 21:44, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

:So it's like how we don't call it the Beretta M9, we call it the Beretta 92FS. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 03:52, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

::With the M9 vs. 92FS situation, it is next to impossible to tell the difference between the two onscreen, unless there is a closeup allowing one to read the markings. In such cases I would say, if a civilian character is using the gun, it is probably intended to be a 92F or 92FS. If a military character is using it, it is probably intended to be an M9, regardless of what the actual prop is. I would assume that most—if not all—movie and TV props are actually 92Fs or 92FSs, because I don't believe that actual M9s have ever been made available for civilian sale.

::With the M1911 or M1911A1 vs. the Colt Government Model (or other brands of 1911-type guns), it is usually possible to tell the difference onscreen without being able to read the markings. For example, the Colt Government Model does not have a lanyard loop. Most M1911A1s were parkerized, while no Government Models were parkerized. When dealing with more modern Government Models, there are even more differences. For example, starting in 1950, Government Models started coming with a full-shelf thumb safety; while all M1911[A1]s had partial-shelf thumb safeties. Also at this time, Government Models started being given a finish with polished flats and matte radiuses, while blued and Du-Lite (similar to bluing in appearance) M1911A1s had polished radiuses and brushed flats or entirely polished (depending on the manufacturer and/or time of manufacture); and of course the more common parkerized M1911A1s were simply all matte.

::Additionally, the newer Government Models as mentioned above have narrow hammers with polished sides left "in the white", and polished chamber hoods also left "in the white". Many M1911A1s had wide-spur hammers, and the ones that had narrow hammers were fully finished (no polished "in the white" sides) and they all had fully blued barrels, including the otherwise parkerized ones (no polished "in the white" chamber hoods).

::Most of the Government Models you see onscreen from the early 70s to the mid-to-late '80s were actually 9mm versions, though they were usually representing a "forty-five" onscreen. This had to do with reliable functioning with readily available 9mm blanks. Colt introduced the 9mm version of the Government Model when they introduced the Series 70 in the early 1970s, and the 9mm version of the CGM had a lowered ejection port (while the .45 ACP version still had the standard military style ejection port). With the introduction of the Series 80 Government Model in 1983, the .45 ACP version also got a lowered ejection port. No M1911[A1] had a lowered ejection port.

::I'll give an example. In the show Magnum, P.I., his gun is blued with polished flats and matte radiuses; polished "in the white" chamber hood and hammer sides, and a lowered ejection port. It is clear from looking that the gun is a Series 70 Colt Government Model chambered for 9mm (though it was always addressed as a "forty-five" in the show's dialogue); and is definitely not an M1911A1. Recently the gun came up for auction and is now in the NRA's National Firearms Museum, and it has been confirmed that that is exactly what the main prop gun was (serial # 70L33101 to be exact).

::--[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 21:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

==Primary M1911 description==
Who wrote this? The historical paragraph (on the background of the M1911) implies that the M1911 was replaced by the U.S. Military AFTER Operation Desert Storm (1991) which is not true. The Beretta M92 (M9) was already approved and adopted by 1985.

Well for a period of time both the 1911 and M9 were in use by the U.S. military,therefore just because the M9 was in service does'nt mean it replaced the 1911 by that time, and for awhile soldiers actualy got to choose which weapon they prefered :o [[User:Leadback|Leadback]]
======================================
The Beretta M9 officially replaced the M1911 in 1985. They still used the M1911, but they weren't buying anymore. They simply phased them out over the years. Now there are some units in the US military that still use the M1911. The M9 is really only used by conventional military nowadays. For example, the Navy SEALs don't even use the M9 or M1911 anymore. They have the H&K MK23 Mod 0. Which is a purpose-built USP .45. I've even heard of some SEALs using the Ruger Mk. II. It's a .22 target pistol with an integrated silencer on it.

Soldiers were never given the choice to choose. They were given the M9, but many didn't like it. It was big, many could not shoot it accurately, and lots contested the effectiveness of the 9x19 round. Lots of people I work with were in the military around the time of the switch, were given the M9, hated it, and decided just to keep carrying the M1911. It wasn't until they were given an official order that they were forced to carry the M9. And even there, there were times when they went back to the M1911s the military had stored up. For example, out in the deserts. The magazines the military bought were junk, got sand in them, and jammed. The M1911 functioned perfectly. Same thing is happening over there now.

wrong. Special Operations soldiers are given their choice of a sidearm( and assault rifle). 1stSFOD-D has been using 1911s since foundation. infact Larry Vickers (Nighthawk Customs) has worked very closely with Delta Force. Nighthawk 1911s are being used by Delta. 2- the Seals in Vietnam started out with the Ruger Mk II Suppressed. and know one still used the HK MK23. it was fazed out years ago because of how bulky it is. SEALs use the Sig Sauer P226 or USPs. but that is still a generalization. because all SOF have a choice in sidearm [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:20, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==Para-Ordance==
Shouldnt these guns get their own page? Sure they are a 1911 varients, but their made by a totally different company.[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]] 00:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, but they're 1911 variants. This is the M1911 pistol series page, and they are 1911s. That's why they are on here. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::I would prefer the Para Ordnance series of pistols have their own page due PRIMARILY to the fact that the Paras have a whole slew of different calibers that other M1911 makes and models don't have [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

What calibers does para have that other 1911 manufactures do not have?--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:22, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

On the main page, the LDA entry claims that some of the LDA models were made DA/SA with an exposed hammer, but that isnt true is it? I thought all the LDA were Double Action Only, with the exposed hammer simply for aesthetic reasons? -MissySummers-
:Well this is FINALLY happening! [[Para-Ordnance 1911 Series]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 02:11, 16 June 2012 (CDT)

== The M in the page title ==

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the M in the page title incorrect? These are Colt 1911s (or 1911a1s, etc.), not Colt M1911s, unless referred to by US military nomenclature, just the same way that a Beretta 92f is an M9 only to the US Army and a SIG Sauer P228 is an M11 only in USAF terms. Just because it's the model of 1911 doesn't make it an M1911, any more than a '67 Shelby GT500 is an M67 Shelby GT500.[[User:YourMessageHere|YourMessageHere]] 08:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
::No. The Colt pistol was formally adopted by the Army on March 29, 1911, thus gaining its designation, M1911 (Model of 1911). Only examples or prototypes prior to the year 1911 would NOT have the M designation (which is extremely rare). Between the years of 1907 and 1910 the Colt pistol was constantly being modified and re-designed to win the Army's trials for adoption of a new handgun. The gun was only mass produced AFTER winning the Army's pistol trials. The Beretta 92FS was already famous world wide and was commercially available as the 92F/FS for YEARS before the Army adopted it. Every 1911 design came AFTER the M1911 (aka Model of 1911) so it is the correct nomenclature. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Using "1911" to refer to any and all pistols based on the M1911 design has only been popular for about fifteen years. Prior to that, the vast majority of such pistols were Colts, and were usually called "Colt .45s", even if they were pistols made by wartime contractors like Remington Rand. Those commercial guns that weren't made by Colt, as made by Vega, Randall, Federal Ordnance, Essex, etc., were called "clones", as they were generally close copies of the Colt. When makers started adding previously "custom" features to production-line guns, and branching into areas that Colt hadn't, a new name was needed, and "1911" became popular. The problem that I have with the various names on the site is the mixing of military and commercial designations; a gun cannot be a "M1911A1 Government Model", as M1911A1 is a military designation, and Government Model is what Colt has always called the civilian version of the "M" military pistols. Colt has made M1911s (1912-circa 1924), M1911A1s (circa 1926-1945), and Government Models (1912-date), but you can't mix or combine those names without confusing the issue.

==Caliber question==
I thought I would ask permission before making this change considering how important this article is: in the specifications category the caliber is listed solely as .45 ACP. I was wondering whether or not that should be changed to include .380 ACP, .38 Super, 9mm, and .40 S&W?
:-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

No, since the ORIGINAL Colt M1911 is .45 ACP Caliber, it should stay like that, since copies of the M1911 maybe have different calibers those should be put on the "copy" section

Agreed --[[PunisherDave]]

==M1991 Series==
I was wondering: what exactly is the difference between the 1911 series and the 1991 series? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 17:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Colt introduced (announced) the M1991A1 in 1991 as a sort of economy version of the Government Model, resembling the military M1911A1, and with the serial numbers picking up where the military gun left off after WWII. The gun was made in that form until about 2003, at which time the finish was changed to polished blue rather than matte blue, and the black rubber grips replaced with checkered wood.
:I heard a guy explain on youtube that 1991 got "extra safety feature" which blocked firing pin movement entirely when trigger was not pressed; allegedly this modification appeared after a incident involving police officer accidentally killing suspect while snapping him with the gun. However, this modification somehow managed to eject firing pin from the slide during decocking so only few people liked it --[[User:Cover72|Cover72]] 21:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
::The YouTube guy doesn't know what he's talking about. The Colt M1991A1 did have the Series 80 firing pin safety, but this was introduced on all Colt Government Models in the early 1980s when the Series 80 version replaced the Series 70. The modification has never caused any problems, aside from perhaps complicating the trigger pull slightly, making it a little more difficult to achieve a good "trigger job". Also, the Series 80 parts are easily removed (and normally a few other minor things are done), and the gun will function just fine, in the same manner as a pre-Series 80 gun. The Series 80 firing pin safety wasn't prompted by any specific accidental police shooting. The only thing a non-Series 80 1911-type gun can accidentally shoot due to the lack of a firing pin safety is the ground. In other words, if a non-Series 80 1911-type gun is dropped from a significantly high height (6 feet or so I believe) directly onto its muzzle, the firing pin can continue forward with enough inertia to dent the primer, thus firing the gun (into the ground of course).

::It is too bad that Colt went to the trouble of designing the Series 80 modifications back in the early '80s, because the remote risk of accidental discharge as I described above is more easily solved by simply using a titanium firing pin (rather than the usual steel firing pin) along with a different weight firing pin spring. Since the titanium firing pin weighs less than a steel one, it has less inertia, and a 1911 so-equipped will pass the drop test just fine. In fact, Colt now uses titanium firing pins on their Series 70 Government Models that they started reissuing several years ago. If Colt had thought of the titanium firing pin idea back in the early '80s, they wouldn't have had to make any actual changes to the legendary 1911 design (changes which annoyed a lot of people), and they might not have lost so much of the 1911 market.

::Now, about the M1991A1: it went through a few different incarnations, but it originally was simply an economy version of the Series 80 Colt Government Model. Instead of the polished blue finish of the Government Model (polished flats and matte radiuses), it had an all-matte blue finish. It also had really cheap plastic grips that didn't fit well (they fell short of the bottom of the grip frame by about 3/16"). It also had a big, ugly rollmark on the slide, with "M1991A1" emblazoned in huge block letters. Finally, it came with a flat mainspring housing and a long trigger (both plastic), which was like the original M1911 (pre-M1911A1), which was ironic considering it was named M1991'''A1'''. --[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 09:13, 17 December 2011 (CST)

==Terminator 2==
It was my understanding that the 1911 used in the film was a custom Colt frame with a fitted Detonic slide. Was it a combatmaster slide? [[Special:Contributions/65.29.239.251|65.29.239.251]] 09:33, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== blank firers / K911 ==

I've added/moved blank firing Kimar 911 to the bottom of page as told by MoviePropMaster2008 ''("Non-firing replicas of the M1911 belong on the bottom of the M1911 page. Thanks.")'' 
But I wonder, shouldn't there be an entire sub-category of blank firers (with K911 being sub-section of this) in order to distinguish blanks from the real ones? It ''might'' look confusing this way. And also, I made multiple photos of K911 for what I thought would be it's page here including disassembled weapon photo, so perhaps these unused ones might be deleted? --[[User:Cover72|Cover72]] 21:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

==Strayer Voigt Infinity ==
This gun is using a frame from STI, they call that frame the 2011, it's double stacked. And is made from steel and polymer.

:are Strayer Voigt Infinity custom built guns? or just have alot of models? Rex095

The modular frames look exactly like those used by STI. http://www.sviguns.com
Don't know if they collaborate or something. They (SVI) have more optional grips than STI.

Both companies reside in Texas.
::Read up: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc]

Does anyone know the mag cap for a Strayer Voigt Infinity in 45acp? - captain snikt

==Police service pistols==

Before the 90s were American Police ever issued the M1911, or were they're only given to the FBI and SWAT team?

- Some regular state/county/municipal departments might have used a 1911 as a standard duty-weapon before semiautos came into heavy use following the eighties, but I imagine that's a very low number. I certainly don't know of any specific departments myself offhand. Not that many departments use 'em much today. As a 1911 generally was considered a large pistol with a fairly powerful round it wasn't considered easy to use and handle by regular officers. Same general reason why departments in older times stuck with .38s over .357s - The .357 was generally considered too powerful for standard-duty officers. As such, most police departments used 9mms when they first went to automatics in the eighties as there were few semiauto calibers with lower recoil impulse and power at the time than .45ACP.

Some other police units might have used 1911s when it suited them - Homicide detectives in our county's police dept. carried 1911 type pistols, though I don't think that was the county's standard sidearm for uniformed officers. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:04, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

:There's another reason, besides caliber, that the 1911 wouldn't have been too popular in the old days - it's a single-action. Before DA-only became more acceptable (i.e. Glocks), most LE departments preferred handguns that were SA/DA. Almost all police revolvers used prior to the 1980s, like the S&W Model 15 and 19, or the Colt Python, were single- or double-action. This bias continued into the 1980s when a lot of departments started adopting the Beretta 92F and the 3rd Generation Smith & Wesson autos. Now that Glocks have been around long enough, DA-only is finally becoming the standard. But SA-only is pretty much a no-go to any LE agency, and that's the way it was even before the 1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:30, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Isn't Glocks SA-only? The firing pin is cocked by cambering a round?

Would a Smith and Wesson Model 39 or 639 or Colt Commander be more acceptable for police use back then?

- To MT, that's a good point as well. SA weapons do require a lot of training and familiarity to operate effectively and safely, and as such, again, weren't considered practical for regular police officers either. Very good to point out. If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the main reasons why the 1911 fell out of favor in the Armed Forces as well - the fact they required extensive training and familiarity to use and carry safely. DA weapons are easier to train and operate with. Very true.

As for the Glock question, no, Glocks are actually DA only.

As for actions - In a Single-Action (SA) firearm, the hammer must be manually cocked to a firing position prior to pulling the trigger. Just like revolvers of the old west. Double action firearms will both cock and release the hammer when the trigger is pulled. SA/DA firearms use double-action by default, but feature an externally accessible hammer to allow single-action style firing (by cocking the hammer back and then pulling the trigger). Modern revolvers are perhaps the simplest examples of this.

DAO (Double-Action-Only) firearms only fire by double-action as they don't have an accessible hammer for single-action cocking. Such as Glock and various other semiauto pistols.

So if you have empty casing in the chamber, an pull the trigger several times, you would hear a loud click every time because the firing pin would be cocked every time? That's what happens in a DAO gun. If not, it's a SAO.

And on the last question, yes the Smith 39/59 pistols were used by police departments back then. Illinois State Police used the 59 back in the 60s/70s if I remember my Jane's Gun Recognition book correctly. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:07, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Correction, Glocks are not DAO. They fire from a half-cocked position. When you dry fire the gun, the hammer falls and must be recocked by racking the slide, it does not cock by double action springs. That's why the have a slightly heavy trigger pull, they are half cocked, and are brought to full cock and dropped by pulling the trigger. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::: Bah, how did I miss that.. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:05, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

i thought glocks were striker-fired?

I think I read that Tacoma, WA police carry 1911s as standard issue service weapons.

I read on another forum that the LAPD authorises 1911 varients to officers, however they have to go through an intense training program to be authorised for it and they have to re-qualify ever few months too. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:30, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

Yes. A Glock is a "striker-fired" weapon so technically it is not either double action or single action because a glock doesnt have a hammer but instead releases the firing pin inside the slide. However if you were going to have to compare it, Single Action would be the closest term. Because the firing pin is "cocked" when the slide is racked and then the trigger only releases it and firing the round. Additionally a Glock does not qualify as a double action because it in no way cocks anything with the trigger. The trigger on a Glock can not be pulled again without cycling the weapon, whereas on a gun that is a double action the trigger can be pulled and the hammer actuated multiple times without cycling the weapon. -[[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

==Versus modern pistols==

One thing I've noticed about this pistol is that almost everyone loves it, as though it were the best, most versatile handgun ever made. But really, what makes this thing, almost 100 years old now, any better than any modern pistols? Really, modern pistols can fire the same rounds, bigger clips, better design, picatinny rails, etc.--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 21:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Familiarity, accuracy, ease of getting parts, feel, simplicity (yes I know there are designs that are simpler, but for what this pistol is, it is simple), many different makes and models of the 1911, modularity, traditionalism. There are many makes and models of the 1911 style that have the same features as many modern "wonder guns". Want more ammo? Get a Para Ord P14, ditto for DA, and DA/SA. Want a 9mm/ 10mm/ etc? there are many types of 1911 platform pistols ranging from .22lr to .44 Magnum. A quote I heard about the 1911 a few years ago is "It's like a '32 Ford Hotrod, its cheap, reliable, powerful, fun, and is easy to make it your own. Just don't think you'll get much mileage out of a tank of gas." Now tell me can you put custom grips, barrels, sights, slides, frames, triggers, hammers, finishes, safeties, slide releases magazines, etc etc etc on a Glock, XD, SIG, Beretta, etc? Maby a few of those, but at what price, and can you do it all? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 08:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

: ''Really, modern pistols can fire the same rounds, bigger clips, better design, picatinny rails, etc.''

- Funny, several pistols I can think of that fit that criteria are little more than updated 1911 pistols. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:08, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

"bigger clips"
: Fail. I believe you meant Magazines. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
ya Unless your talkin about a Mauser broomhandle (which you're not) I would prefer if you said magazine instead of clip

::Actually, that's another thing I'm questioning. Really, what is the difference between the detaachable box magazines and clips? I mean, clips hold bullets for easy loading, right? SO wouldn't modern detachable magazines be classified as clips too?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 20:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Simplest way I can put this - a clip loads a magazine. The magazine is what the gun feeds from - NOT THE CLIP. It just so happens that on some guns, the magazine is affixed to the weapon (the M1 Garand and the Mauser, for example). Thus, users have to use clips to reload them. On, say, a M1911 or an M16, the magazine falls out, thus allowing the user to swap in a new one when needed. A magazine could hold a clip, if so designed...but that particular road is one-way only. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 20:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

::The "clip vs. magazine" distinction is something that really needs to be clarified, and one of the reasons why I asked for the "general information" section in the first place. Hopefully someone can make a good article there showing the various type of bullet clips and why they should not be confused with magazines. By the way, revolvers when not loaded manually use bullet clips. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 05:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

considering that this page is dedicated to the 1911 which is generally made in .45 does anyone else find it somewhat stupid that our military and most police departments are using handguns that have been known for their lack of stopping power. there are better handguns out there that hold a generous amount of .45 ammunition anyway. for example the Nighthawk FLX holds 12-14. the HK USP/HK45, and the Infinity handgun line are double stacked. and even if most .45s hold 7-10 isnt that enough in most scenarios. 7 .45 slugs does the work of at least 20. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:26, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Its the same reason that police used the .38 Special for so many years even after the .357 came out. Politics, logistics, ability to handle the round, etc etc... -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:30, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:With regard to caliber, police need rounds that can penetrate car bodies, doors, walls, etc. .45 rounds are not known for penetration. Also, while the .45 round is more effective against soft tissue than 9mm and .40 S&W rounds, anyone who tries to claim that 7 .45 rounds can do the work of 20 9mm or .40 rounds is completely dillusional. Watch ballistic test videos. A .45 slug entering the body does more damage than a 9mm round entering the body. If you try to claim that one .45 wound is more damaging than 2 9mm wounds with any decent grouping than you clearly have no understanding of physics or human anatomy.

But the fact remains with a 9mm you dont want him dead in the half hour it will take for him to bleed out. you want him dead NOW. with the .45 hes going to feel it. he aint gunna get back up. with the 9mm he might just keep firing.
:Depending on shot placement. A 9mm slug to the heart or any of the major arteries surrounding it will cause death within several seconds. The same is true of a shot to most areas of the skull. .45 does have increased lethality over 9mm, but that degree of superiority has been greatly exaggerated.

Yeah but a 9mm can pass through a person and keep going, a .45 doesn't. I would imagine you wouldn't want those two 9mm rounds going through a person and hitting an innocent bystander. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:28, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

It all really comes down to preference. Honestly a body shot with any round is not guaranteed to kill or stop anyone. The only thing guaranteed to immediately incapacitate someone is to severing the brain from the rest of the body. Recoil is also a big factor. If you cant shoot it it doesnt matter what you carry. People and police departments have to find the weapon that will work best for them. Personally I like the .45 and I own a 1911. The most important feature on the 1911 for me is its thinness with the single stack mag. Honestly I think my Sig 229 .40 kicks more violently and is harder to shoot than my .45. I know a lot of people who do not like the .45 and much prefer their 9mm because they are better with it. -[[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

Modern 9mm JHP and .45 ACP JHP in ballestic gel create near equal wounds. I can post reference links if anyone wants them. The whole thing about magazine capacity isn't really a problem as 99% of the time, only three shots are fired at most. Even with police, most of the time, no more than 3 rounds are fired.

Carry what guns suits you best, whether its a .22LR or its a .45 ACP. Once I turn 21, I plan on getting a SIG 1911 with a 4" barrel in .45 ACP but for the time being, I have to stick with my XD40.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:01, 11 October 2011 (CDT)

==Variants NOT listed with any film/TV/game appearances==

- I've taken it upon myself to remove several listed variants that had no list of anything that they've appeared in. Guns posted that didn't say they were in anything - Not one movie, TV show episode, video game, nothing. A couple of which I don't think have appeared on anything and seem to have been put up just for the hell of it.

Now I know we have a lot of 1911 variants on the page, but the page is not intended to show/describe ''every'' variant of 1911 ever made, but only those ''that have actually appeared in something'', as quoted by some of the admins. I just find it a bit annoying to have to scroll down the page and see numerous 1911 pistols that have nothing listed under them (Again, with some looking like they were just added for the sake of being there), and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Anyway, clearing said sections out now. If it seems like an unusual or otherwise noteworthy variant, I'll add it to the 'additional variants' section below. Bottom-line, if it ain't actually been in anything, ''don't add it'', no matter how cool it is or whatever. If it has been in something, then next time, don't half-ass - If you're going to bother with the effort of putting it up in the first place, do it 100% and say what it's appeared in. Thanks. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:18, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

==Kimber==
in the Kimber Warrior section it is listed as "Warrior II", which is wrong, the Warrior is built to full military specs and never got the "II" desinated saftey system...so it is just a Warrior because kimber only puts the II on the models they put their special saftey on.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==Controversy igniter==
I am fully aware that what I am about to say will probably ignite the greatest firestorm of controversy this site has seen in a while. I have fired several 1911 pistols and found them to be a good, solid design. That said, it doesn’t change the fact that I think this is undoubtedly the most overrated firearm in history. Throughout the entire gun community there is the consensus that this is the absolute greatest thing ever conceived by the mind of man and anyone who says anything different is a blasphemer. Again, I am not saying it is a bad pistol, I just don’t think it is best (I won’t say what my top choice is for fear of causing even more indignation to come my way). Though even if it were the undisputed best pistol design around, I still don’t think it would be so significantly greater than other designs as to warrant being the object of the worship and masturbatory fantasies of every gun enthusiast in the world as it currently is. That’s my two cents, I await the fallout.

:I smell a troll.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 17:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I'd say he's not because he seems to explain his point. At least his reasoning isn't 'this gun sukzz' [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:My main reasoning is that the weapons are predominately single action only, which necessitates that they either be carried condition three (which makes the pistol slow to bring into action), or condition one (which many consider unsafe). The double/single action and double action only systems have become omnipresent in most modern combat pistols for good reason. Additionally, while a generally reliable design, many other pistols have surpassed 1911 models in ruggedness and reliability. Another thing that I find odd is the vast variety of weapons that are claimed to be “1911s.” For instance, I have seen subcompact, double action only, double-column “1911s” in many calibers other than .45acp. At this point the only common feature between these weapons and the original Colt 1911 design are a loose aesthetic resemblance. The internal mechanisms maybe similar as well, but many other pistols share a far greater functional similarity to 1911s yet do not bear the moniker. At what point does a gun cease being a “1911” and become something simply trying to cash in on a famous name sake?

It is human nature to emulate successful designs in the hopes of getting a piece of that pie, especially in the modern business world. Less-refined terms for this behaviour include "jumping on the bandwagon" or "riding a gravy train." It's nothing new now in the firearms industry, what with all the AR-15 variants, Glock knock-offs, and (of course) countless "1911-type" pistols around. What defines a "1911-type" pistol is really matter of personal preference.

I would, however, agree that it's foolish to fetishize a type of firearm or a firearms manufacturer just because of its track record or Public Relations budget. There is no such thing as the "perfect" weapon in the real world--every design involves tradeoffs, and that's even before you include the "human factor." Designs can always be improved. What matters most is what you can use the most effectively in a consistent manner. And if you can't, then you ought to get yourself another weapon or train more.

Speaking of "best pistol ever," I remember how H&K tried to label their 4.6x30mm pistol as "the Ultimate Combat Pistol," but it got unceremoniously cancelled, because of "inadequate ballistics in a handgun format." So much for "Ultimate Combat Pistol"--now it joins the legions of "Useless Cancelled Pistols" that came before it. Perhaps it could have had a chance if it were a machine pistol instead, dubbed the "MP7 UltraComPact," in essence an MP7 PDW in handgun format. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:34, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:What I would like to know is what is it about the 1911 that supposedly makes it the best. I've heard people say it is the greatest pistol ever for more than a decade yet never explain what ''specific'' features or advantages it has that make it so good.

You should head on over to the forum and ask that question: "What makes the M1911 pistol so great compared to everything else, and when does an M1911 stop being one and start being a pistol just pretending to be one?" I'm sure there are more people there who could answer your questions better than what you could get here. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

What makes the 1911 the "best"? There are many reasons for the following it has. I am of course referring to the original 1911A1 model, not the double stack nor double action variants. For one, the single action trigger is extremely easy to train with and use by a lot of people. Second, it has redundant safety systems in place. Even with the manual safety off, it will not fire unless the grip safety is fully pressed, though this safety system is seen by a few as a con of the design. Third, it utilized a single stack design. That coupled with the angle of the grip is a very comfortable for a majority of the people. The degree of the grip angle was chosen because, for a lot of people, it is a natural point meaning that one could close ones eyes and bring the pistol up and have it pointing directly at the target. Fourth, it fired the .45 ACP. The .45ACP is a proven manstopper especially when compared to the other rounds utilized at the time of its adoption and until the development of reliable hollow point designs. Lastly, I would argue that compared to many other designs, such as the Mauser C96, Luger,etc..., the 1911 was easily field strip as the pieces of the pistol were designed to aid in the stripping down of the firearm. Compared to todays plethora of firearms, the 1911 is no longer the only pistol to chamber effective rounds or reliability. Why is it still popular then? Because some people still favor the 1911 design. Overrated, I don't think so. There is a reason why it is still chosen over other designs. Is it the end-all-be-all of pistol design? No, I would say it isn't. Anyway, from everything I've read, personal experience, and research that is what I have come up with. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 21:15, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:Everything you have described establishes that the gun is a good design, perhaps the best gun around when it first came out, but does not explain it's enduring following. The grip may be confortable for many people, but that is far too subjective to explain why so many people (with so many different hand sizes) still favor this gun. It's single stack magazine make it a confortable target and practical concealed carry weapon, but the limited capacity it offers can be a death trap in a combat weapon (which many still claim the 1911 is the quintessential example of). The .45 ACP is a great round against soft targets, but does not offer very good penetration or long distance acuracy. And with the isistance on reliable "Soldier Proof" weapons in most of today's militaries, many modern pistols are more reliable and easier to strip than the original 1911s. I don't deny that the 1911 was most likely the best pistol in the world when it came out and for a few decades after, but I don't think it still warrents that praise anymore, yet almost every gun Television show, magazine, website, etc. seems to constantly proclaim its supremacy.

To answer your first point. The single stack, thin handgrip is easily usable by people of differing handtypes. You say its subjective but isn't how something feels in someones hand subjective? For example, the M9/Beretta 92FS has a thick grip. Bigger hands have no problem with the grip but smaller hands do. The slim 1911 grip can be used by big hands or little hands. The grip angle is something else that many people find comfortable. You second point that you made was the single stack "death trap". You say that the single stack is a liability. But capacity isn't everything. 7+ rounds of .45 ACP is good. The .45ACP has a well known reputation for one shot stops. The 9mm of the Beretta 92 or Glock 17 does not have that reputation. As for the .45ACP, it is not meant to penetrate body armor, neither is the standard 9mm, but it is accurate over long distances. There are very few pistol rounds that are meant to penetrate body armor of vehicle armor, which is what I think that you are getting at. If you draw a pistol in a combat zone, you are already in deep trouble or in a position where a high capacity is not needed, i.e. MP's. Anyway, a pistol is not meant to be accurate at long distances so the point is moot. As for the "Soldier Proof" weapons, that is just a cheap way out of training soldiers correctly, as they did with the A2 model of the M16. A milspec 1911 is just as reliable as newer designs. One such argument is that the 1911 was only tested for 6000 rounds with no failure before cleaning while Glock for example is tested at 30,000 rounds. What soldier won't clean his sidearm after 6000 rounds? What battle involves firing 6000 rounds out of a pistol? If you can't see why the 1911 design is praised and still being used then I can't help any further. The 1911 design has many good points that apparently many people still find better than other designs, and many still find the 1911 a proven and effective design.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 22:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:Apparently I wasn't clear when I rebutted you last time. The single stack is confortable for people with small hands yes. However, people with larger hands, and even some small handed people, have no problem with thicker grips and so the capacity limiting single stack serves no purpose. The grip angle is a completely subjective feature and so it is imposible to argue that one style is better than another. What matters more is simply what one is used to. You are right that 7-9 rounds of ammunition and 6000 rounds before cleaning is more than adequate for most applications, however my point wasn't that the 1911 is bad (it is a good weapon) but simply that there are better guns out their. 7 or 8 rounds may be enough for most encounters, but having 12-17 rounds and being able to fire 30,000+ rounds before cleaning is an advantage, whether or not one will utalize those features often. Also, when I referenced penetration I had things like doors, walls, and car bodies in mind, not armor. The .38 Super cartridge was specifically developed because the .45 could not penetrate car bodies effectively. Your previous post all focuses on arguing that the 1911 is an ''adequate'' combat pistol which I completely agree with. My whole point is that the features you mentioned ''do not make it the best pistol around.'' When I first began this conversation I stated that the 1911 is not a bad gun, simply that with all the pistol designs that have emerged in the past century it is no longer the greatest pistol in the world, yet nearly everyone in the gun community (yourself clearly included) still claim it is for no other reason than people like its grip (which is subjective), its caliber (which is used in many much modern modern firearms), and its history (which can easily make it a favorite gun but can not be used as justification for it being the best).

::'''"You are right that 7-9 rounds of ammunition and 6000 rounds before cleaning is more than adequate for most applications"'''

::"Before cleaning"? What do you think; that it will malfunction on the 6001st round if you don't clean it? The gun is as dirty as it is going to get after a few hundred rounds. When you've fired a gun 6000 times in a row without cleaning and with no malfunctions, that means that when the gun finally does malfunction it won't be because it is dirty; it will most likely continue to function properly until something breaks.

::'''"but having 12-17 rounds and being able to fire 30,000+ rounds before cleaning is an advantage, whether or not one will utalize those features often."'''

::Just so you know, the M1911 didn't malfunction on the 6000th round. It didn't malfunction at all. They stopped after 6000 rounds because that is how many rounds they had decided beforehand would be adequate for a test. Any gun that can fire 6000 rounds without malfunctioning can most likely fire indefinitely without malfunctioning, until something breaks. And keep in mind that the M1911 did this 100 years ago, being built out of the relatively poor grades of steel of the day (steel was greatly improved after WWII, even though no U.S. military M1911 or M1911A1 ever got to take advantage of it, because none were bought after WWII). Also, those things you mentioned are ''potential'' advantages. A potential advantage that isn't used at all is not an actual advantage, obviously.

::30,000 rounds is overkill for a test. Most people will never fire anywhere near that many rounds through their handgun (especially without cleaning), and even if they did, who would want to trust their life to a gun that has 30,000 rounds worth of wear and tear on it? --[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 13:18, 17 December 2011 (CST)

You were arguing the design flaws but it is the design that is one of the big reasons it has such a following. Since you are arguing one view against the other. Why a lot of people think that it is the best. The design is one reason, history is another, the round it fires is yet another reason. I actually don't think it is the best I was merely stating the reasons that it is popular and why people say it is the best. I like the Beretta 92fs for its grip and certain design attributes and the Glock 21sf for different reasons. Would I object to using the 1911 in combat. No. Would I use the Beretta 92fs in combat with FMJ ammo? Not if I didn't have to. With HP ammo, I wouldn't hesitate to use the Beretta. But even your view of other designs being better is subjective. If a pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc...is reliable and fires a moderately effective round then it is a good design. What makes it the best is subjective as far as it goes. What one pistol may be best at is what makes it worst at something else. There is no way to objectively define the "best" just what is better than something else.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 00:17, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. I don't have any gun in mind that I think is indisputably better than all others. The features I pointed out I did so to demonstrate that in certain aspects the 1911 is inferior to other disigns, not that said other designs are the perfect weapon. Every design is a give and take of different features. Because of this, my main complaint was a pervaisive belief that the 1911 is unquestioningly the greatest gun ever (I have heard that phrase Verbatim in many issues of Guns & Ammo). Is it better in some aspects than double-collumn, double-action 9mm pistols? Yes. Is it better across the board? Absolutly not. I apologize if at any point I have come across as confrontational, it is just that I have heard so many people assert the 1911's complete supremacy so many times that it has really gotten on my nerves and I wanted to know what others thought.

Google "1911"...then google any other gun...now tell me which one has the most varieties...which one has the most after market parts and pieces for the specialist. Which one has the most surplus parts. Its so popular and so famous because if you wanted to you could make one look like no other one or you could make it look like that one in your favorite movie. Not only that but all the diffrent calibers from 45cal to the awesome and unbeatable 10mm. Plus they are sexy as hell. To sum up you can basically have a beautiful, functional, all steel combat pistol in your choice of caliber and its going to feel like a dream in your hands.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:48, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

:The madness of crowds surely knows few bounds--just look at how the various bottled water companies manage to make a killing selling what is essentially tap water, because people will do often do things just because enough other people tell them it's a good idea. Then again, I suppose the "cult following" that some pistol-types have over others is due in part to the following facts:

:*Pistols are rarely if ever primary combat weapons anymore, with the exception of law enforcement.
:*Few people who routinely carry pistols have to regularly use them in gun battles against opponents who are earnestly trying to kill them.

:Therefore there aren't many occasions for most pistol-carriers to test their assumptions in the most revealing field of all--life-or-death situations. So depending on your circumstances you can go a lifetime without ever putting the hype in the harsh light of real return-fire. I'd bet on the M1911-type (the "pure" single-stack .45 ACP M1911s) pistols selling so much mostly because of its hype and history, and that it is, at its heart, a serviceable (though hardly optimal) weapon. Given how many clones there are, however, I really must wonder what would have happened had Colt become the sole copyright holder for this pistol type--would we see more innovation that way, or just countless clones of some other pistol type? Perhaps a more revealing, specific question would be "How does the M1911 platform compare to the Glock platform or CZ-75 platform?" That could work because all three are successful pistol types offered in multiple calibers, including 9x19mm, .45 ACP, and 10mm Auto.

:Bottom line? The "pure" M1911 works, but we can certainly do better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:07, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::Exactly

Ok, well answer me this then. Why if the 1911 is all hype and legend does MEUSOC still issue 1911s? Why does Delta give out a stipend to have an operator buy his own custom 1911? Why does the FBI HRT use 1911s? and LAPD SWAT? and so many other groups that use pistols? The reasons the wonder 9s came into popularity are lower recoil (marginal), size (marginal) higher capacity (less training in marksmanship), weight (long since gone by the wayside), to match ammo with other NATO countries (Military), and hype/ cool factor (civilian). The 1911 has served admirably (in one capacity or another) with few major changes to the platform for almost 100 years. The Beretta, Glock, CZ-75, etc. have been redesigned and "improved" since they came out just to try and match the 1911s in popularity, reliability, etc.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 17:30, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

:Sure thing. How many of these operators you mentioned fulfill the conditions I mentioned above, namely that they regularly use pistols as their primary combat weapons instead of SMGs/PDWs/Rifles and often engage in gunfights with earnest, aware opponents? And other combat platforms for the .45 ACP won out, such as the Mk. 23 SOCOM pistol which won out over Colt's version. The "improved" Beretta, Glock, CZ-75 you mentioned have done so to fit consumer demand and market competition, but national armed forces aren't that commercial and competitive most of the time because of how many contracts and vested interests are running the show. I simply said that the "Pure" M1911 platform works when used, but it can be improved, otherwise the Mk.23 SOCOM wouldn't have won the OHWS program. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:05, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::A lot of Special Forces don't even use the Mk. 23 due to its bulky and awkward size. Many Navy SEALs opt to use 9mm SIG-Sauer Pistols

H&K won the competition because they strictly adhered to all of the requirements (some of which were asinine), and they put in the best bid. When USSOCOM received the Mk. 23 they got exactly what they asked for but not what they had actually wanted. The SEALS who used it complained about how it was too big, heavy, and its cons outweighed its pros. They tried to pawn them off on the ARMY but no one there would touch them, so most of them went back to H&K. As with all things military, big brass does not listen to the guys who actually have to use the equipment until its too late.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 06:13, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I would like to toss my thoughts into the mix. Being a Brit getting a hold of a real firearm is harder than getting away with stealing the Popes hat, but I am an avid airsofter and I have held and fired many different types of airsoft pistols ranging from HK USPs, to Glocks, to Berettas, to SIGs. But I still go back to my 1911s to which I have 2 (I'm awaiting delivery of a third). I don't have tiny hands but I don't have big bear hands and the 1911 design feels right in my hands. I use a weaver stance and the 1911 is the best pistol for hand placement in that stance, I had an issue with the Beretta that sometimes my thumb could slip onto the slide locking mechinism and prevent slide lock. With Glocks they felt too top heavy for me, maybe it's how the airsoft Glocks are designed and it's not like that on the Real steel. I used a SIG for quite a while as that felt pretty good, but as soon as I picked up a 1911 I needed one. After a little practice I can draw, remove the safety and bring the pistol up to the target in a little under 2 seconds. Why do I like the 1911 so much? It's all about the placement, the safety is right by your thumb so when you draw it you can use one motion to bring the pistol up and deactivate the safety. I found the Beretta to be a bit of a fumbling job deactivating the safety mid draw. Why the 1911 design is still praised isn't down to some cult following, it's down to simple ergonomics, it looks great, the functionality is great, the placement of everything on the pistol is perfect. I saw someone post that they would rather be able to fire 30,000 shots and not have to clean their pistol rather than 6000. I don't know about you but if I only fired off one shot from my pistol in a battle I would still clean it to make sure nothing is going to cause a problem next time. Better to be safe than sorry. --[[User:Cool-breeze|Cool-breeze]] 17:19, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I think it depends by what you define as 'best', and what you need the gun for. In my mind, if you want an M1911 variant, get a Para-Ordnance LDA. Like the P14.45, but double action. If you want a cheap, reliable, accurate semi-auto, do what everybody else does, get a Glock 17 and stop moaning. Your moaning about not people liking 7-round magazines (we've moved on to higher-capacity ones-in my mind, if armies must use M1911 variants, use Para-Ordnance's. 7 or 8 rounds plus one in the chamber is just awful, and you'll run out quickly.) is making the world of semi-auto's remain stuck in the 20th century. Embrace the future! With pistols like the Caracal, FN Herstal Five-seveN, and many other great ones, it's not half bad.

I just Google Imaged the 1911 & Beretta 92, with the former receiving 80.8 million results, and the latter receiving 1.46 million results. [[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] 16:08, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

== Ballester-Molina ==

The Ballester-Molina should not be included in the 1911 page. It's not a 1911, only the mags and barrel interchange. Internally it's based on the Star Model A, which has significant differences from the 1911 in terms of lockwork. Unless anyone objects I'm going to create a separate page for it. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

== Link share ==

Hello there,

This is a question for the webmaster/admin here at www.imfdb.org.

Can I use part of the information from this blog post right above if I give a link back to your site?

Thanks,
Daniel

== Dreamworks Animation ==

When are you guys going to add animated films from Dreamworks like Monsters vs. Aliens and Megamind, because they have guns used by police and the military.

Just because there are guns in it doesn't mean it gets a page here. Are they recognisable as real guns, or are they stylised ones? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

They are real guns in the animated films, like in Monsters vs Aliens, the soldiers used some M16 rifles to shoot at the alien, and in Megamind, the police uses rifles and pistols on aiming the villain, who is walking.

OK, I'm going to assume that you haven't read the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page, most notably [[Rules, Standards and Principles#Anime: Rules & Restrictions|this section]]. Read that, then check back. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

But wait, why do we have video game pages then? Firearms in them barely resemble real ones --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok sorry, no big deal, lets not add cartoons yet, because they have to wait.

:@Jackbel. Because in video games you can clearly identify the guns, and no the good ones do not just 'barely resemble real ones.' As a video game person you should know this, unless Australia has weird rules about depicting guns in video games. The reason cartoons are generally not allowed is because unlike anime, most cartoons have a generic silouette of a 'gun' while most animes have enough detail to be able to determine what guns was used. Think [[Ghost in the Shell]] or [[Cowboy Bebop]].--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

==.45 Blanks==

I've read a lot here that .45 blanks used to be unreliable. I was wondering when they started to become a bit more reliable and why they were unreliable? I can't find that anywhere.

I thought it wasn't really the blanks being unreliable so much as it just being easier to blank-convert a 9mm than a .45. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

.45 pistols require more recoil force to cycle their actions than 9mms. Since blank rounds have virtually no recoil, .45s are much harder to convert to use blanks.

Ah right. Is there some new way of converting them now because I've started to notice that in recent years there have been a lot of films using .45 ACP versions of pistols that are also chambered in 9mm. Die Hard 4.0 for example, McClane as a P220 in .45 ACP. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:37, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
:Is it explicitly stated that the prop gun was chambered in .45? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
::''"Is it explicitly stated that the prop gun was chambered in .45"'' We have a pic of the actual screen used gun and is listed as .45 ACP. I think all newer P220s are chambered in .45, only some of the older ones were chambered in 9mm and .38 Super. Also the .45 being unreliable with blanks. I don't think it encompassed all .45 chambered pistols. I think it was only in the 1911 platform. With the 9mm being a much smaller blank and having the large ejection port made for the .45 it was easier to eject them.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:SIGP220R LiveFreeDieHard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SIG-Sauer P220R - .45 ACP. This is the screen used gun in the film and was carried and fired by ''[[Bruce Willis]]''.]]
::: Just checking. Especially after the whole issue with the Glocks. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:54, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Long (and detailed!)story short. For a 1911 to fire blanks reliably you must first drill and tap the barrel for a blank adapter, then taper the barrel hood, then grind off the locking lugs, and remove the barrel linkage. Once that is done, the testing for a reliable adapter and blank combo ensues (you may or may not need to enlarge the ejection port too). I figure its pretty much the same with other pistols...-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

That sounds like a very complex process. I'm assuming if you do that well though the 1911 will cycle blanks as well as 9mm blanks. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:28, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I read an article in a gun magazine a few years back about blanks and it said that it comes down to the casings used. According to the article, blanks are made from rifle brass because it has to be long enough to be crimped and still be long enough to be the length of a real cartridge. The problem with .45 acp ammo is that until recently there was no rifle brass in .45 diameter that could be used for blanks. I remember reading back when "Miami Vice" was on that Timothy La France had brass custom manufactured in .45 for blanks. -- David, 3 December 2010 (well, its the 3rd where I live)

==Laseraim Series III?==

So what is this thing?
[[Image:LaserAimSeriesIIIPistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|LaserAim Series III Pistol - .45 ACP]]
It looks more like a CZ derivative than a 1911 derivative to me... Alot like a mashup of CZ, S&W, Sig, STI, etc..-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 06:51, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
:It draws a little from the S&W series (namely the safety) and CZ-75 (in terms of grip shape), but technically it is a M1911 derivative, they just didn't make many of them.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 07:15, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Used to see these in tv shows during the late 80s. the later model was the first pistol I ever saw with an integral accessory rail on the dust cover, although that was in a catalog. David. 11 December 2010
:::Dust cover? What are you talking about? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
I don't know what else to call it, it is the part of the frame extending in front of the trigger guard. I have seen it, in print referred to as a dust cover. David.

::THIS Laseraim was photographed for the [[Haunted (2002)]] page since it was used in an episode. If you guys read the Haunted (2002) page, for which this IMAGE was originally shot for, the description says: '''Laser Aim was yet another manufacturer who built ported .45 ACP pistol based on the original M1911 design, but incorporating elements of the BHP and the CZ-75 into a new design. The unique feature of the Laser Aim was a hole cut out of the trigger guard ahead of the trigger to mount a laser. Since the production ended for this pistol, smaller lasers with better battery life have been invented. By the late 1990s LaserAim had gone out of business and had sold their patents to AMT. ''' Hope this sheds some light on the piece. It is a new weapon influenced purportedly by M1911, BHP and CZ designs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

Ah, that explains it. Could have saved myself about 2 hrs of google searching if I'd looked up the image uses hah.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:13, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

== MEU(SOC) Pistol... ==
...has been given a new designation, ''M45''. [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/24/m45-close-quarters-combat-pistol/] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

We also need a better image for it, but I can't find one I can't be sure isn't an Airsoft gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:04, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

The big problem is there is no single model that is the M45/ MEUSOC Pistol. The "M-45s" in service are a mix and match of Kimbers, Springfields, Colts, etc. The "M-45" is a set of specs that any pistols built for MEUSOC have to comply with. There are SOME retrofitted M1911A1 pistols that were done by USMC Armorers at Quantico, but they are going to be near impossible to differentiate from the M1911A1 they were built from.
Here's a good thread from AR15.com (dear lord its hard to say that haha) about the M-45 MEUSOC pistol variants.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=86667
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 08:46, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

== More proof of the M1911's greatness ==

According to the news, the M1911 is now the official state gun of Utah! This is kind of cool, since John Browning lived in Utah, and it's just in time for the great .45's centennial anniversary. [[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 21:16, 19 March 2011 (CDT)

== Happy 100th Anniversary to the Colt M1911! ==

Happy 100 years of service M1911! Thank you for providing some of the most nastiest knockdown power available to the armed forces and for providing an eternal name of badassery in motion pictures!

Here's looking forward to 100 years more! --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 15:40, 29 March 2011 (CDT)

My favorite semi-auto is the 1911. I've had affairs with others but I always come back to a good ole Colt .45. I didn't understand why until I did some research and figured out we shared a birthday. Still saving for an anniversary model... [[User:USGIMar29|USGIMar29]] 19:40, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

==9mm 1911s==
I'm not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask but could anyone recommend some good 9mm 1911s? I live in Australia and the maximum calibre you can get without doing competition shooting is .38 or 9mm rounds. --[[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 07:07, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Kind of late, but if you're still there GunEnthusiast, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is a Para-Ordnance P18-9, otherwise known as Hitman's gun (well, in the film.). The reason 9mm M1911 variants are so far and few between and rare is that .45 ACP was invented for the gun, and despite no living American being old enough to say they were born before it's creation, most Americans believe a 9mm M1911 is a sin, and that the ghost of John Moses Browning will come and haunt it's makers and buyers. I think. Anyway, the fact the P18-9 is Canadian explains it. No one complete American fully understands Canada. Alasdair.

== Naming the MEU(SOC) pistol ==

On M1911's page (and correspondingly on pages that list the weapon) it is named "M-45 MEUSOC":

1) While calling it "M-45" wouldn't be incorrect, it should be changed to "M45" in line with other officially adopted names on IMFDB;

2) Using "MEUSOC" in conjunction with "M45" is incorrect. It is either "MEU(SOC) Pistol" or "M45 Close Quarters Battle Pistol" / "M45 Close Quarters Combat Pistol".

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:46, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:Well, then go change it. ^3^ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:59, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

::Will be done right now. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:17, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::I think they are the same pistol. I remember seeing a story about how the MEU(SOC) was reclassified as the M45 Close Quarters Combat Pistol at some point, and have also seen documents that use the term M45 MEUSOC (no brackets). What do you think the differences are between the two? I think there is some confusing as there have been various different versions of the MEU(SOC) pistol built from various off the shelf parts. There are at least 5 versions that I know of, and main fetures are as follows. 1: original version with unflared ejection port and Springfield Armoury logo behind the ejection port. 2: newer slide with flared ejection port and logo in front of the ejection port. 3: front slide serrations. 4: wide slide serrations and Novak sights, with grip safety with "bumb" at the bottom. 5: 4th version with skeleton hammer rather than Commander type hammer. You also have the ICQB which is a Kimber made pistol with a railed frame. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:26, 3 October 2011 (CDT)
::::Sorry, just realised I totally misread your original post. Though you were saying that the MEU(SOC) and M45 were different pistols. However, the term M45 MEUSOC (without brackets) is also correct. [https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=df43476377acd40c0f409faa2ceffc9d&_cview=1] --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:52, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::Notice the presence of comma between M-45 and MEUSOC. That would indicate the listing of different designations for the weapon. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:27, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::I really don't think the comma means that, but to satisfy you, here [http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2010/03-March/19-Mar-2010/FBO-02095403.htm]. To be fair though, I have seen official documents that refer to the M45 being the MEUSOC, Close Quarters Battle or Close Quarters Combat pistol. I think this whole conversation is irrelevant however, as on looking into it, I think the M45 pistol and the MEU(SOC) pistol listed on this page are different weapons, with the M45 being a commercial of the shelf pistol made by either Colt, Sprinfield Armoury or Karl Lippard Designs. This article from the [http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/01/marine-marsoc-pistol-45cal-012511w/ Marine Corps Times] seems to back this up (this time referring to it as the Close Quarter Battle Pistol) stating that the M45 is modelled on the MEU(SOC) but will be a COTS pistol, which is currently being evaluated. For the sake of simplicity, I think the pistol on this page should just be called the MEU(SOC). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:19, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::::MEUSCOC. Wonder what the first "C" stands for?
:::::::It would have been so much simpler if there was website that chronicles the history of MEU(SOC) pistol. Every variant along with pictures and how they were designated (to distinguish them)... Because currently sources are conflicting. In USMC's [http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/ MCB Quantico] section there is an article "[http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/Sentry/storyview.aspx?SID=4913 The Devil Dogs’ workshop]". There it says M45 Close Quarters Battle Pistol is being built by local armorers. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:50, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

One more issue: sources vary on the year of adoption. Some say 1985[http://www.americanspecialops.com/special-ops-weapons/meusoc-pistol.php][http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm], other say 1986[http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/marinefacts/blsoc.htm][http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=16][http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/meusoc.htm]. Maybe change the part to "since the mid-1980s"? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:53, 11 October 2011 (CDT)

:Done. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:08, 13 October 2011 (CDT)

== A Location of Procuring ==
Does anyone know where you can get one of these great airsoft movie-1911 replicas namly the stunning and slender long-slide?

[[Image:WA490 4 mark.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Long Slide Jim Hoag M1911A1 replica]]

-[[User:GladeTaylor]]

The image has a watermark from [http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/ ehobbyasia.com] on it, so I'd suggest looking there. The exact pistol is [http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/western-arms-colt-hoag-bianchi-special-gbb-pistol.html here.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:12, 14 December 2011 (CST)

== Organization. ==

Any objections to alphabetizing this page? I think it would make a bit more sense... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:38, 6 December 2011 (CST)
:No don't do that. The M1911 and M1911A1 go first. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:52, 6 December 2011 (CST)
::Fair enough, I actually agree with that. But what about the less common ones. Seems weird to Kimber, Strayer, Inifinity, Detonics, Springfield, etc... What if we keep the most common ones at the top (M1911 & M1911A1) and put the rest in order? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:58, 6 December 2011 (CST)

== Difference between Kimber and Colt. ==

In several medias, I discovered that Colt M1911 can sometimes be referred as the Kimber. Why is it so since the weapon manufacturer is Colt? And is there any difference in the mechanism of gun between the both companies? --[[User:S9771773G|S9771773G]] 21:31, 28 December 2011 (CST)

those medias are just being ignorant with their terminology. Colt makes 1911's and kimber makes 1911's...two diffrent companies that happen to make the same model. Any true diffrences in them will mostly be cosmetic in nature. The biggest diffrence between colt and kimber is that Kimber say Yonkers on it and colt say Hartford. Most people think that colt was the first and only maker of the 1911 and call all 1911's colts no matter of maker...for example someone saying "I own a colt 1911 made by springfield"...well no sir you have a Springfield 1911-A1 and colt has nothing to do with it.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 10:21, 29 December 2011 (CST)

== Airsoft Colt's grips. ==

Maybe it's kinda stupid,but I was wondering,could I install some custom or just another grips on my.. hahaha,Marui's Colt Government spring pistol? ;)
That thought came to me,cause I realised,that mine is 1:1 copy of the real one,so.. maybe,new grips would be possible to install. [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 16:17, 22 January 2012 (CST)
: Not sure about the springer, but you can put them on the GBB pistol. Makes the gun much lighter though, as the airsoft grips have metal weights inside them. Seems a bit of a waste doing it on a springer though, the grips would probably be worth more than the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:34, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Yeah,agreed about the price.Thanks for a useful answer.:) [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 16:41, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== When to add here Vs own page ==

What makes the decision between a 1911 variant being including on this page versus having its own page? With this page getting so large seems like some of these guns could have their own page. The [[Star Model B]] has its own page, for example, while the [[Para-Ordnance LDA]] is part of the M1911 page. How is that decision made? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:13, 1 March 2012 (CST)

:The Star B while similar on the exterior, internally it isn't. From the Star Model B talk page ''First, these pistols had no automated grip safety, and no detachable backstrap/mainspring housing. Second, Star pistols had simplified trigger/sear design with single trigger link, and pivoting trigger. Third, external safety swiths locked the hammer, not the sear. Fourth, Star pistols featured exetrnal extractors. Fifth, as noted above, Star A Super and B Super also had different barrel locking/unlocking.'' The page is getting a bit big. They could be split per manufacturer. Colt would stay on this page I guess. Kimber, Para, Springfield etc getting their own. The M16 rifle page is also getting too big, it often kicks me out of it. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:25, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::That makes sense! Yea I've got a pretty good connection here but when it takes over a minute for a page to load, time to split them up... I like your idea of doing them by manufacturer and we can always have a '''See Also''' at the bottom. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:31, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:::Maybe make thread on it in the forums. Most probably won't go for it though. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:02, 1 March 2012 (CST)
Any further thoughts on this topic??? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:04, 14 June 2012 (CDT)

== British M1911 ==

I understand a series of M1911's were modified to fire .455 Webley Auto rounds. Can anyone give more information about this? Like is it suppressor adaptable? Who used it? Etc, etc.
:It was mainly used by the Royal Navy (although imagine the Army got hold of a few) and 11,000 were made from 1915 to 1916. I doubt a standard pistol can take a suppressor as it was a WWI service pistol so had no need for one but imagine it could be threaded for one, which I would not recommend as it is a relatively valuable pistol you would be messing with. I think the mags are pretty pricey as well, as they are not standard .45 ones as the .455 Webley Auto Mk I was slightly longer than the .45 ACP. An interesting fact about this pistol (to me anyway) is that it can be legally owned in the UK due to the fact that it was made before 1919 and uses a cartridge that is deemed as not readily available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:56, 9 March 2012 (CST)

== Colt Super 38 Full Auto Machine Pistol ==
[[File:1911machinepistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Factory Full Auto Conversion]]

== Longslides ==

What is the point of such a long barrel? I mean, how does increasing its length affect the weapon's capabilities? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Longer sight radius (more accurate sight picture), (slightly) higher velocity, more weight at the front end (reducing recoil).-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] ([[User talk:Ranger01|talk]]) 23:58, 17 December 2012 (EST)
: What exactly is a "sight picture?" - [[User: 2wingo]]
::What it looks like when you are aiming down the sights. Sight radius refers to the distance between the front and rear sight. When this distance is short, you can more quickly align the front and rear sights, but it has the disadvantage that if you are looking through the sight at an angle, there will not be as much misalignment between the front and rear sights. Conversely with a longer sight radius, if the gun is off at an angle from your intended point of aim the misalignment will be more obvious in the sight allowing for it to be corrected. Longer sight radius on these longslides has disadvantages though, such as it taking longer to align the sights, more perceived "wobble", a longer overall length and a heavier gun. As for muzzle velocity increase when going from a 5 to a 7 inch barrel for example, it can be anywhere from only a few FPS to a 10% increase depending on the ammunition. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:44, 18 December 2012 (EST)

== Cocking serrations ==

Among the improvements listed for the Colt XSE was the addition of front cocking serrations. What exactly is the significance of that? I mean, how does it improve the gun to have serrations on the front as well as the back of the slide? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series

2013-03-11T02:36:22Z

2wingo: /* Discussion */

__TOC__ 
=Additional Images=
==Screen-used SIG-Sauer Pistols==
[[Image:SIGP220R LiveFreeDieHard.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P220R - .45 ACP. This is the screen used gun carried and fired by [[Bruce Willis]] in ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''.]]
[[Image:Line of Fire Eastwood Gun Left.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen-used live firing '''SIG-Sauer P228'''. This weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[In the Line of Fire]]'', and was carried and fired by [[Clint Eastwood]] in the film. IMFDB thanks [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet] for providing this photo; also see their sales page for the weapon, [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00276&Store_Code=TGC&search=228&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= here].]]
[[Image:Line of Fire Eastwood Gun Right.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The '''SIG-Sauer P228''' from ''[[In the Line of Fire]]'' (seen from the right).]]
[[Image:VirtuosityP228.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A two-tone '''SIG-Sauer P228''' (9x19mm) with Wilcox Industries UITC laser and barrel compensator, as used by [[Denzel Washington]] in the film ''[[Virtuosity]]''. The weapon pictured here is the actual screen-used gun from the movie, one of four that were made for the film. One of these guns is re-used in the film ''[[Barb Wire]]''.]]
[[Image:IMFDB P00268 Sopranos Tony Soprano Sig 226.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor [[James Gandolfini]] in '''[[The Sopranos]]'''. This specific gun was the one fired onscreen when he, Paulie, and Silvio kill Pussy in Funhouse (2.13). More detailed images and purchasing information on this item can be found at [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00268&Store_Code=TGC&search=Sopranos&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:IMFDB P00273 Sopranos Paulie Sig P228.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used SIG-Sauer P228 pistol with non-functional prop silencer - 9x19mm. This live firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor [[Tony Sirico]] in '''[[The Sopranos]]'''. This gun was fired onscreen in the episode A Hit Is A Hit (1.10) during the scene where Paulie and other members of the Sopranos crew pose as furniture movers and ambush a drug cartel bagman and steal his money. After the hold up, Paulie shoots the man in the head at point blank range before making off with his drug money (IMFDB thanks [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet] for providing the documentation on this gun. Contact them via their website for more detailed images and purchasing information on this item.)]]
[[Image:P00619.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used SIG-Sauer P229 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The gun has been modified to fire blank rounds only. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see[http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00619&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:M&MSSIGP229.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Two of the SIG-Sauer P229 pistols used in the film ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]'' - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:IMG 1680.JPG|thumb|none|400px|The actual, screen-used SIG-Sauer P229 used by [[Adam Baldwin]] on ''Chuck''. This weapon was built and supplied to the production by Independent Studio Services. - 9x19mm.]]

==Additional Variants==
===P220===
[[Image:P220 Japanese-ver 9mm Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Minebea P9, Japanese licensed copy of the P220 - 9x19mm]]

===P225===
[[Image:Umarex RWS C225 Target.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Umarex RWS C225 Target, a CO2 powered air pistol based on the SIG-Sauer P225 - .177 pellets]]

===P226===
[[Image:SigP226TwoTone01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A reverse Two-Tone SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm (identical configuration to the gun from ''[[2 Fast 2 Furious]]''; this weapon was assembled and photographed specially for IMFDB by [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]).]]
[[Image:p226_tactical.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226R fitted with a weaponlight - 9x19mm]]
The P226 above looks like an airsoft one to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 19:29, 2 June 2012 (CDT)
:Yep, it is a Tokyo Marui GBB P226. Fitted with an M3 weaponlight. You can tell by the plasticky appearance and the hammer being too far into the rear of the pistol.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:46, 2 June 2012 (CDT)
::And the markings on the slide and the magazine ;) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 08:50, 3 June 2012 (CDT)
[[File:P226 tacops.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226R Tactical Operations - 9x19mm]]
[[File:P226RNAVY.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226 Navy, older model with traditional trigger - 9x19mm]]
[[File:SIG P226 Combat TB.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226 Combat TB - 9x19m ]]
[[Image:SigP226TwoTone.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Two-tone SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:X-Five-LW-detail.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer 226 X5 Competition Model - 9x19mm]]

:- Question: In what year did the rail become standard on the P226 so that it was just called P226 rather than P226R? Or is it still called P226R?--[[User:Suceress2|Suceress2]] 11:39, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

::I remember them becoming available around 2004/2005, and then being standardized shortly after (probably by 2006 or so). SIG was still putting out non-rail P226s as recently as 2007 (which is when I first started looking to buy a P226), but they haven't been available since then. Also, the rail was introduced first on the P226 Tactical before it became a standard feature on all 226s and other SIGs. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 11:43, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

:::The last P226 without the rail was the P226 SAS (a dehorned DAK gun), which was discontinued in 2008. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:53, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

::::The name 'P226R' isn't an actual model name, more of a way to distuinguish between rail and non rail SIGs. I don't think that the P226 was ever called a P226R officially by SIG, but I could be wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:02, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

:::::Thank you for the responses! I checked the Sig-Sauer website and couldn't really find much about dates or useful information. I was hoping they would have a nice gallery of the various guns available. They do have quite a few pictures, but I don't think it comes anywhere near showing the full range of the product.--[[User:Suceress2|Suceress2]] 02:45, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

::::::The SIG website is useful for identifying current products, but not so much for old ones. The discontinued page has some good info, but only goes back about the last 2-3 years. I know that the rail was introduced on the P226 Tactical, but I don't remember when that was exactly. I believe that was around 2004 or so, but the rails were not standardized on the P226 until early 2006. SIG offered various models without rails, such as the SAS and German, and I believe they offered something along the lines of Classic, but I might be confusing that with the German. I think that SIG should keep the non rail frame availiable as an option, as there are many people that would pay good money for one.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:36, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

===P228===
[[File:SIG228Stainless.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P228 with stainless slide]]

===P229===
[[Image:sig229Stainless.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P229 with two-tone finish and Crimson Trace grips 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Sig-sauerP229DAK.jpg|thumb|none|399px|SIG-Sauer P229R DAK - 9x19mm (also chambered for .40 S&W & .357 SIG)]]

=Discussion=
===P226R===
I know that the ones with rails are now the standard, and I have tried to find more information on the history of the P226. I've found a few sites that talk about the dates in which certain models were introduced and such, but I have yet to find anything that says when rails were first added to the P226. Does anyone know the approximate year when rails were added? Also, in what year did the rails become standard? I know that the trigger bar spring was completely changed in 1998, but what about the rails?
Oh, and how can I tell a P226R from a P226 E2? Is there a way to tell by looking at the pictures? Someone speculated that the current model used by SSA Derek Morgan on ''Criminal Minds'' is an E2 but I have no idea how to tell.--[[User:Suceress2|Suceress2]] 01:17, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
:I think the way it goes is that they had the P226R which became the standard P226, then they had an upgrade version of this called the E2 (Enhanced Ergonomics) which had a short reset trigger and screwless one piece prip plates, and now this has become the standard P226. The only difference between the E2 (discontinued) and the now standard P226 is that the E2 had an "E2" logo on the front of the slide. As for the Criminal Minds gun, see the talk page there for my opinion on that. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:35, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
::Thank you, Commando552. Do you have any idea of the approximate years when the changes with the rail happened? I looked all over and could not find the year when rails were added or when they became standard. Google searches just kept coming up with a bunch of unrelated stuff. --[[User:Suceress2|Suceress2]] 01:55, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
:::The name 'P226R' isn't an actual model name, more of a way to distuinguish between rail and non rail SIGs. I don't think that the P226 was ever called a P226R officially by SIG, but I could be wrong. As far as when the rail was first made standard, I believe that was 2007.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:26, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
::::That actually was an official SIG designation and marketed as such during the period when standard and railed frames were available concurrently. I don't know exactly when the P226R was introduced, but think it was early-mid 2000's, with the rail becoming standard on the P226 (excluding anti-snag models) in 2005/2006. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:06, 9 April 2012 (CDT)
:::::Oh cool! Thank you for that information! I'm taking down notes on it. I'm now curious about the "anti-snag" models. Did the rails snag on things before being perfected?--[[User:Suceress2|Suceress2]] 02:48, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
::::::SIG produces versions of their pistols known as SAS (Sig Anti-Snag) that have had all the corners and edges smoothed (also called "dehorning" in order to make the pistol less likely to get caught up on clothing. They uses to make an SAS model of the P226 which even after they introduced the rail as standard had the smooth frame, as the rail makes the pistol more likely to snag when used for concealed carry. They don't make the P226 SAS anymore (P226 is rather large for concealed carry afterall) but they do still make an [http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p229-sas-gen-2.aspx SAS model of the P229] which has the smooth frame rather than the railed frame on the [http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p229.aspx standard P229]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:38, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
Finally found it, the rail was first introduced in 2004 with the standard frame being completely phased out in late 2007/early 2008.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:16, 2 June 2012 (CDT)

==P245==
I like the P245. I bought one back in 2000. I owned both the P220 and the P245 for many years and I always found that I shot better with the P245. Eventually traded the P220, but I still have the P245. It's a nice little shooter. But truth be told I did purchase the eight round magazine from Sig. So I guess the P220 Compact just makes more sense. From a business aspect. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

==P228==
I'm a bit confused about the P228. I thought that it has been discontinued for about 10 years. But that the Military uses them and I know that SIG recently came out with a P228R model. So my question is: Is it still being produced or not? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 00:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

:The P228R is a limited production run weapon. SIG had lots of surplus P228 slides, so they modified them to fit P229R frames (even though the 229 has always been a bit wider than the 228). As for the military's use of the P228, that's just because they bought so many of them in the 1990s that they still have lots in inventory. But the original, non-rail P228 (the version still seen in most movies today) has been out of production since 2000, when the P229 in 9mm was introduced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Ok thank you for clearing that up for me. Much appreciated! -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 05:54, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

== P220 ==
Is the P220 still manufactured in any caliber other than 45 ACP? I know the .38 super and .30 luger variants were discontinued but many nations have adopted the 9mm version for Police and Military use so it seems odd they would have discontinued it, yet SIG-Sauer's websight only lists it as comming in .45. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Everywhere I've looked for info says no. All modern (Railed I assume) P220's are strictly .45 ACP.
Personally I like this line of thinking, a single stack 9x19mm seems pointless when you can get a P226, or a P229 and carry more rounds. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 10:55, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

The Swiss military is a big user of the P-220 pistol. I wonder if they might have their own production line somewhere (as they did with the Luger) and just do not offer them commercially anymore. Also, SIG as the monolith that it once was is no more, having broken up into various other companies: the SIG-Sauer brand, now based out of Germany (and responsible for the P-220-5, P-226, P229, SIG-556, and all other continued SIG-Sauer firearms), and Swiss Arms, the manufacturer of the SIG-550 series firearms (the 550, 551, 552, and 553), and others. It is possible that the Swiss government procured the machinery after the demise of SIG to produce the P/75 (as I believe the Swiss military calls it) and is producing them for their own uses. This seems all the more likely when it is considered that an officer in the Swiss military is given the option of purchasing his own service sidearm once he leaves the military (and thus a finite stockpile might soon quickly expire). Just for information's sake, an enlisted person within the Swiss military is given the option of actually purchasing his own service weapon once he leaves the service (this is done by sending it back to the manufacturer were it is converted to a semi-automatic only rifle and then sent to the former soldier). The Chilean government had its own license to produce these domestcally through FAMAE (according to Ian Hogg) though this seems to have expired and FAMAE now produces a variant of the CZ-75 and the Japanese government also license produced the design at one point (perhaps through Howa Industries), although this too seems to have expired, and this is once again according to Mr. Hogg. Just some potential explanations.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 15:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== P6 hammer notch ==

As I actually own a P6, I, as I am sure many other P6 owners have, became curious of and susequently investigated the notch in the P6's hammer. I have heard various reasons for the P6 hammer's notch, including the theory that it was meant to indicate that the gun was dropped or was meant to prevent an accidental firing if it was indeed dropped. Hoever, I have come across another explanation that to me seems a bit more plausible, that it was meant to stick the loop of a retaining holster into, thereby securing the gun into the holster and preventing a drop. To me this seems to be a more potential explanation as who would want to replace a hammer each time the weapon was dropped, espiecially a SIG (not the cheapest of all firearms) and espiecially a model that SIG discontinued quite some time ago. Even finding extra (affordable) magazines for a P-225/P6 is an ordeal, so why would you try and replace a hammer every time somebody might actually drop it. I don't know, but it just does seem the best explanation to me. Also, I do not speak German, so there might be a resource out there that that I cannot utilize that expressly states the reasons for this peculiarity. Once again, just another potential explanation, what do you guys think?[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 15:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Your picture of a SIG-Sauer P228 ==

Your main picture of a SIG-Sauer P228 looks more like a airsoftversion than a real one. The hammer has a slightly different shape than a real P228.

:I don't think it's an airsoft weapon. It was photographed for us by MoviePropMaster2008, who is a movie armorer, so that is a real weapon converted to blank-fire, from his company's inventory. However, he mentioned to me that this particular gun was dropped during a movie shoot and badly damaged, so it had a whole bunch of repairs. He is trying to find a P228 in better condition that he can photograph (preferably, one that was used in a big movie). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== Just wondering? ==

Why do many enthusisests and military forces(Navy seals,SAS,ect) perfer this gun? Is it reliability? the different calibers?

Its exceptionally well made and accurate right out of the box, they're durable, there are a variety of options from cosmetic to alternate materials to alternate barrels and rail systems, and there are a wide variety of calibers to choose from. They're solidly built, reliable, and effective weapon platforms. The only real issue is price but if you're buying something that you want to be able to defend yourself with...any time...in any corner of the world.... then the P22# series is a prime choice.
-Double Agent M

Uhm,I'm just wondering.What is that small thing, which is near safe button? [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 12:21, 4 January 2012 (CST)

Gonna have to be more specific. Are you talking about the magazine release or the slide release? or are you talking about the takedown lever? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 15:50, 18 January 2012 (CST)
:And whats the safe button? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:04, 18 January 2012 (CST)

Modern Sigs do not have an external safety. The controls are from the front as follows: Take down lever, hammer decocker for da/sa models (hole if DAK model), and slide release. [[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]
:Generally true, but there are a few single action only variants of the P220 along with the P226 X-Five that have no decocker, and a frame mounted safety behind the slide release. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:19, 19 January 2012 (CST)

==Confirmation==
I feel stupid for asking this but just to make sure, SIG-Sauer P220 series guns have decockers but no manual safeties right? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

There are some SIG 220 series that come with manual safeties. The P220SAO comes to mind.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 04:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

And I assume the DAK versions don't have decockers. I should have specified that I was wondering about the DA/SA variants. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Ah, there are no manual safeties on non SAO SIGs.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

No problemo.

==P228 vs. 229==
What are the differences between the SIG P228 and P229 other than the fact that the 229 comes in .40 S&W and .357 SIG? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

The P226 and P228 were originally manufactured using a stamped-steel slide on an aluminum alloy frame. The P229 consists of a CNC-milled stainless steel slide, typically colored black with a Nitron finish. The P229's milled steel slide was introduced to handle the higher slide velocities created by the .357 SIG and .40 S&W loads, which the stamped slide of the P228 could not handle without the use of a much stiffer recoil spring.
:So stamped vs. milled slide. Alright, thanks. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==Quick question about SIGs in films and television==

I understand why SIGs are used by the military, police and weapons enthusiasts but I'm just wondering why they turn up so much in films and TV. Are they easy to convert to blanks and thus is the main go-to guns for armorers or is it SIG doing some covert advertising? I remember in the late 90s to early 00s that Glock had an equivalent presence in film and television. It's nice to see SIGs in action but can't they use a wider range of brands? - [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]]

:In movies and TV, SIGs typically are typically shown in the hands of either FBI Agents (which actually issued them in real life) or military Special Forces (many of which also use them frequently). I would imagine that they are common for this reason alone - there are a lot of movies about elite units and federal agents.

:I don't think it has anything to do with them being easy to convert to blanks, because SIGs have a covered barrel whose lock-up at ejection port needs to be milled down in order for blanks to function reliably (unlike Berettas, which have a reputation for ease of blank conversion due to their open-top slides). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:05, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

==SIG-Sauer model used in recent Mythbusters==
I have a short question, in most recent episode of Mythbusters, the trio team testes a myth from Kiss The Girls movie - whether a gun can ignite a room full of gas. They used .44 Magnum, 3rd Gen Glock 17 9x19mm (if I ID'd it correctly) and a SIG-Sauer. The question is what model of SIG-Sauer was used, I'm not sure if it was P239 9x19mm? Also on a side note, they tend to mix the footage of Glock and SIG and also Tory calls the SIG a Glock... (wlw @ 27.11.2010)

== SEALS ==
Does anyone know why the Navy SEALS chose the SIG 226 for their handgun of choice, what handgun it replaced, and why it was chosen over that handgun?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 02:50, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

When the US held pistol trial to replace the 1911 in the 80's, the final two were the m9 and the P226. The M9 won based on cost alone. The SEALS originally used the M9, but after several catastrophic failures they switched to the runner-up, the 226. That was in the 80's, and they are still using it. Says a lot for SIG... I don't know what the SEALS used before, but I would assume it's some 1911 variant. --[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 04:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
:The Navy SEALS also used the Heckler & Koch Mark 23 for a while before switching to the SiG-Sauer P226. Reason being? The H&K Mk 23 was deemed to be a bit of a piece of shit. With a heavy trigger pull and a clunky, unwieldy feel and ability to use, the SEALS kicked that pistol to the curb pretty quick. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 20:53, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
::Form what I heard from people who actually own Mark 23s the trigger pull is better than the USP. :/ I would own a Mark 23 but that's just me, I like big, heavy (actually the Mark 23 only weighs as much as a M1911 handgun), over-engineered weapons that can survive a nuclear explosion. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:15, 5 June 2011 (CDT)

What kind of catastrophic failures was the M9 going through and why didn't other branches replace the M9 with the SIG aside from price?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 17:28, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
: The Slides had a tendency to break; officially as a result of the SEALs using hotter rounds than the weapon was rated for.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
::The other branches didn't feel the need to replace the M9, probably because the SEALS have higher standards for their sidearms. Also, the SIGs were extremely durable, you could take them through saltwater, drag them through sand, even pound it with a jackhammer and they would still fire. The other branches didn't use their sidearms nearly as much as the SEALS. Presently the Coast Guard is using the SIG-Sauer P229, and the actual agency NCIS (naval criminal investigative service, pretty much cops for the navy and marines) use P229s as well. Also, I don't know where you live, but if u live in america go on youtube and search for "nutnfancy p226 part 1" its the first one that shows up. He talks about the history of the P226 and its use with the SEALS.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The SIG P229 is a fine weapon, from my experiance its the best shooting handgun for me. Wonder if the P220 works aswell because I want one.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== New P226 ==

Has anyone seen the new production line SIG P226s? What do you guys think of the new grips? They've got the same grips that the E2 has now. I like them but I will miss the old P226 grips. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:34, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:I honestly think that I am the only one who does not like them. I like how they try to appeal to smaller-handed shooters, but I think they should have kept the "classic" style availiable as well. I handled a classic P226 with the E2 grips installed, and it just didn't feel right to me. They did this to the P229 (my favorite gun) and changed the slide style as well. I will miss the classic grips. (It feels so weird calling the SIGs I know and love the classic version)--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 02:46, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Being a Brit the closest I get to handling a real gun are my airsoft ones, but if I manage to move to America (which is one of my lifes goals) I'd like to get some real guns. One of them is a SIG Sauer P226 but I prefer the classic unrailed frame. I wish SIG still produced those for sale as well. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 04:35, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

You can still get the old grips for SIGs. They sell them on their website, and i'm sure that various other distributors bought ass-loads of them to sell. The new grips give more options to a wider range of shooters. --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 09:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

:I've been thinking about ordering a pair for a while. Even though I can get my hand around my 226's grip just fine (the smaller circumference doesn't matter much to me), I've never liked the texture of the previous generation grips. The E2 grip texture is designed to be a lot like the grips on the very earliest P226s (the checker-pattern grips).

:Also, SIG just introduced the "P226 German", which is a rail frame P226 that has the German-manufactured stamped slide of the oldest model P226s. I might have to get one some day - the old stamped slides are WAY superior to the milled slides that have been standard since the late-90s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 10:27, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

When I saw the "P226 German" on their website I was hoping it would be a classic P226 without a rail but it has the rail. I don't understand why they don't still produce unrailed framed P226s. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:55, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

I must admit that I thought the same thing when I saw the German on their site. And i'm sure many other people were just as disappointed when they saw the rail... honestly, I can see where they could be useful, but aesthetically I prefer SIGs without rails. Like the P229 SAS, for instance. --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 22:40, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

They could be useful but SIGs look so much better without them. And there's nothing wrong with the Harries technique in my opinion if you need a flash light. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:11, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

1. The SAS pretty much covers the rail-less Sigs. 2. As I own a 229(R) the rail isnt bad for texture. Really causes no problems holstering. If you dont like the look I dont know what to tell you. Having the rail standard is a good idea because it gives you the OPTION to put a light or laser on your gun. 3. Carrying a light in your off hand will work but putting the light on your gun is a much sturdier option letting you still have full control of your firearm with both hands and the added benefit of the light. [[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

I agree with you on all of these points. We were speaking purely of the aesthetic value of the rails. I'm sure some some people like the looks of them, and personally don't think they're THAT bad. I just feel that SIGs, especially those with the new one piece, snap on grips, look much better without them. --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 22:07, 9 February 2012 (CST)

== P239 Slide ==

As far as I can tell, there are two different slide designs for the P239, the first being the one similar to the P228 that is seen on the gun images for this page, but then you also have a design similar to the P229 that can be seen on the pages for [[Chuck]] and [[Nikita (2010)]] for example. Does this indicate different manufacture date, or does the slide change with calibre? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:23, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
::I think the slide changes as to whether its a 9mm or 40 cal. The reason why the 228 was discontinued in favor of the 229 was that they couldn't make the 228 strong enough to take 40 cal and the 'marketplace' expected any 9mm to be available in .40 SW as well. So I believe the frame can take the stresses of both 9mm and 40 cal and (obviously) the barrel and slides are different. :) Of course, now I expect someone out of the blue to completely prove me wrong .... sigh....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:52, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
:::I believe that is right, just remember that the slides are reversed in the 239 (half serration = 9mm, full serration = 40SW or 357SIG) compared to the 228/229. Also the frame of the 228 is slightly smaller than that of the 229, and old model 229's in 9mm have a slightly smaller frame than those in 40SW, though, if I understand it right, the new model 229's (full cocking serration) use the same frame for both 9mm and 40SW. The size does not make that big of a difference unless you try to put E2 grips onto a 228, where the size difference will prevent them from fitting (unless you got a late model 228 that used 229 frames). Hope that helped rather than confused. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] 07:42, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
::::Thanks, that helps. Assumed it was calibres as the SIG website has current pics of both types, but assumed it was the same way round as P228/P229 and wondered why the most common version in TV is .40 rather than 9mm. Second part has thrown me though, as didn't realise that P229s now had full height serrations. Is there anyway (from a distance without examining frame thickness) to tell the difference between a current P229 and a P228R? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:02, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
:::::The new P229's have the E2 grip which is smaller than the old grip, lack grip screws, and are one piece as opposed to the older 2 piece model. But since the P228R uses a P229 frame and E2 grips can be attached to older P229 frames, and the new P229's can still have the old grip style swapped in if the user so desires, there is no real way without holding it or seeing the stamp on the slide to know for sure.[[User:Dover500|Dover500]] 10:25, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
::::::The extractor on the new P229 is much larger than before.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:16, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

== Broken links ==

Although more correct, when [[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] put "-Sauer" into the titles for the different guns it now means that all of the redirects, like [[SIG-Sauer P226]], don't go to the correct section anymore, along with any links that are in articles (such as <nowiki>[[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]]</nowiki>) that lead to a particular section. I take it there is no way to fix the second problem short of going through every single article and changing it is there? Also, why do we put the dash in SIG-Sauer, as far as I can tell the actual company name is either SIG SAUER, or SIG Sauer. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:26, 17 January 2012 (CST)
:You are right about the title, they never refer to themselves as "SIG-Sauer" but "SIG Sauer". And, right again, theres no way to fix the redirect problem :( --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:29, 17 January 2012 (CST)
::I thought that when SIG joined up with Sauer they put a hyphen between their names. Also, the little thing at the top of the page says that we should put a hyphen.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:53, 17 January 2012 (CST)
::You could always just edit the redirects... Go to the [[SIG-Sauer P226]] page and change where it redirects... I've already done it for the P226 (try the link and see for yourself). Shouldn't be that difficult. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:51, 17 January 2012 (CST)
:commando552 and I were not talking about the <nowiki>[[SIG-Sauer P226]]</nowiki> redirect, but the pages like [[The Negotiator]] or [[XXX]] where the longer <nowiki>[[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]]</nowiki> hyperlink is used. Those now redirect to the top of the page instead of the P226's section. And the only way to fix them is to change them on every page that uses this hyperlink. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:47, 17 January 2012 (CST)
::What he said. I know the first problem is fixable like you said, was going to edit the redirects earlier but didn't in case the name changed again. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:43, 17 January 2012 (CST)
:My bad. Though I will say that this is a perfect reason why using this style: <nowiki>[[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]]</nowiki> is a bad idea (not saying it was your guys fault or anything, just saying that its a good reason to avoid that type of coding). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:55, 17 January 2012 (CST)
Wow, my bad guys, I didn't know it would jack up all the redirects. What if we reverted the page back, but added a note at the top of the page stating that the proper name has the Sauer in it?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:53, 17 January 2012 (CST)
:We should strive to be as correct as possible. If it's right, it's right. I'm willing to put in the legwork. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 22:00, 17 January 2012 (CST)

== P239 & P245 ==

Considering the name of this page is '''P220 pistol series''' shouldn't these guns be on their own page? Thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:22, 9 February 2012 (CST)
:Both the P239 and P245 belong to the P220 line. The P245 is a compact P220 that was replaced by the P220 carry, and the P239 is a compact, single-stack pistol that uses the P220 configuration.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:16, 9 February 2012 (CST)
::Gotcha. Thanx! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 00:18, 10 February 2012 (CST)

== Splitting up this page ==

I wanted to get some feed back on the idea of splitting up this page. I completely understand why the page is all together. These guns are all based on the same frame, etc. That being said, each model has its own variants. The P226 for example has at least 10+ variants, P226 Tactical, P226 X-Five, P226 Navy, etc. etc. It might be nicer to have each of these guns with their own page.

'''IF''' that were to happen this page could be converted into a disambiguation page that list's all the guns that are members of the series. Also, each individual page could mention that the gun is part of a larger series and could have a "See Also". Just food for thought... I would love to hear what people think. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 02:50, 11 February 2012 (CST)

:I'm all for it, as there are some variants that appear in film/TV and we don't even have a picture of them. The downside to splitting this page up is that all the links for the SIG line will be broken, unless there is some all-magical admin power I don't know about.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:56, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

== P228 Picture ==

I believe that this was mentioned before, but the picture of the P228 looks odd. It bears many resemblances to my UHC Spring Airsoft P228, including the trigger, hammer, trigger pin placement, and even warps in the slide and frame. Even if the picture is not an airsoft replica, it does not do the P228 justice. I know how much work it is to find a good P228 to photograph, and then even more work getting the photo right. The picture now looks oddly misshapen, especially around the hammer and trigger guard. If you compare it to the picture of the two-tone P228 on this talk page, the differences are visible --[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:35, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:It's not an airsoft P228, I don't think. It has the exposed top of the barrel milled down, which is part of the blank-fire conversion process for SIGs (and many other handguns). This means that it's a blank-adapted movie gun. It's MPM2008's gun and his picture, so you can ask him how it ended up looking the way it did. He did tell me a while ago that he would look for another 228 to photograph, but he hasn't gotten around to it yet. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:52, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

== P226 vs. HK USP ==

I know,that SIG's are very reliable pistols.But I also have read about USP stress test,where it was frozen and saltwatered and all other heavy conditions.
So I wonder,which of these 2 pistols is more reliable?
:Not reliability per se, but I would say that a USP is more durable than a P226. The P226 uses an alloy frame (on most models) as opposed to the USP which has a polymer frame with steel inserts. The steel inserts are more resilient than the alloy frame which will wear out quicker and need replacing sooner (probably after somewhere in the range of 50,000 - 100,000 shots so is still pretty far off in the future).--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:59, 3 April 2012 (CDT)
Reliability and durability are two different things. The SIG wins reliability hands down, as there are little to no instances of them jamming, even with crappy ammo. The USP is also very good, but I have heard of more jams in them. Not many, but still a few more than the SIG. As the USP is a polymer framed gun, it has a higher chance of 'KBing' (kaboom) where parts of the gun (usually the frame) crack, or even fully break in two two while shooting. Glocks in .40 also do this a lot. As far as durability, the two guns are about equal. The SIG has been dragged through sand, saltwater, driven over by a bulldozer, jackhammered, and then frozen in a block of ice and dropped out of a helicopter onto concrete (and still fired), so I'd say that's a pretty durable pistol.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:48, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

Wow! Is there any link for that stress-test? At least as a article?
Couldn't find it yet. [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 10:03, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
UPD: I,found it! Good! This gun is immortal!
Really impressed. [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 10:07, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

== New P229 ==
Since the new version has the standard slide shape, it's basically both the P228 and P229 at the same time, isn't it? A P228 with the P229's slightly shorter slide length. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:36, 22 June 2012 (CDT)
:It also has an external extractor and has the E2 grips (although grips are changeable so not a reliable indicator). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:58, 23 June 2012 (CDT)
::By P228, I assume you are talking about the P228R. Appearance wise they are similar, but internally they are not. As commando mentioned the external extractor is new, but the new P229 also features the short reset trigger system (which has been reported to fit into a P228, but it isn't officially stated by SIG). The new P229 also uses the .40S&W frame for all calibers (even 9mm). This allows two extra rounds in the 9mm magazine. Because of the two extra rounds, the new 9mm P229 mags don't fit in a P229R or P228.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:41, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::The last models of the P228 (I think SIG dropped the R like with the P226, but we call it the P228R on this site to distinguish it from the earlier non railed models) had the SRT. The P228R that MPM2008 has photographed on the main page has the SRT. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:59, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::::It definitely has a short trigger, but there is no way to tell if it has a short reset trigger. I have read about people who fit the short reset into P228's and P225's, so it is definitely a possibility.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:33, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:P229 new right side.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]

What about naming for this model? Calling it a "New P229" on the site is a bit sloppy IMO, but simply calling it a P229 or a P229R confuses it with the older two models. I'm thinking we start calling it a "P229R-1", because that is how SIG's product numbers refer to it as opposed to the old model. Plus a lot of holster companies list a P229R and a P229R-1, which is the old and new model of P229. But if "New P229" works with everyone else, we won't change it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:45, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

== SL Sport II ==
Does it have the same magazine capacity as the regular P226? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Single Action Army

2013-03-07T06:08:38Z

2wingo: /* Ammo */

Talk:Lethal Weapon (1987)

2013-02-28T21:41:21Z

2wingo: /* How does Riggs have a PSG-1? */

== 16s ==
I think that M16 is actually an MGC replica. You can see the fake foward assist.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:20, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== ''[[Police Python 357]]'' Ten Years ''before'' ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' And a French movie to boot.==
Got myself over to Utube and watched a compilation of the movie. There is a pretty well done armored car robbery sequence. It's nicely done when you realize it was filmed 35 years ago. There is a stunt when the hero [[Yves Montand]] does a combat roll while being shot at. A middle aged French actor did it ten years before [[Mel Gibson]] in ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' (1987)! LOL. I wonder how many people know that? I didn't until today. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:01, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

=='Old Timer' gun==
Riggs states that "A lot of old timers carry those" with "Those" meaning revolvers. This film was made in 1987 when alot of police forces still carried revolvers as standard issue, so is this comment really appropriate?

- It's meant to be a remark about Murtaugh's age more than anything about guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:31, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

::I realize it was a jab at Murtaugh but the joke still seems to imply that only old timers carry revolvers, yet at the time this movie was made even young rookie cops were being issued revolvers.

I think Riggs was basically saying that Murtaugh is the old cop and he is the new generation with the comment. He could have said something like "Cops are going to be using my pistol soon though so you best get used to automatics over your revolver", but that would have been a rubbish piece of dialogue. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:18, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

==Flinching==

I've noticed that Mel Gibson flinches quite a lot whilst firing, especially during the target practice scene. This doesn't really fit the character of a trigger happy cop who once shot a guy 1000 yards away. What's quite ironic is that Danny Glover never flinched in that bit. [[Special:Contributions/88.111.25.228|88.111.25.228]] 16:30, 1 April 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, you're right. He not only blinks every time, but flinches his entire head.
::Whenever I shoot at one of those stupid indoor ranges I can't help but flinch too. I think they designed the walls on either side to bounce the gas directly into your eyes so the wandering know-it-alls running the place can tell you you're flinching.--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 23:11, 5 January 2012 (CST)

==Heckler & Koch P7==

Anyone notice the H&K P7 or variant, all covered in dust and sitting next to the grenades, while the General is burning in the flipped car?
--[[User:Viktorgorchev|viktorgorchev]] 0:15, 21 August 2011 (GMT+1)

== Smith & Wesson 5906 ==

This movie was made in 1987, the 5906 did not start production until two years later in 1989, so there is no possible way that the 5906 was the gun Murtaugh used, unless the movie's armorer used time travel. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:02, 13 April 2012 (CDT)
:I am the one who made that edit without checking my facts. I apologize, and I do agree that the Model 59 or 459 is a likely stand-in, because it looks like a S&W Automatic, and it is surely not a 1911.

== Propguns at the firing range? ==

This is probably not worth spending the time including in the main article. This is just a trivia.
I think I've noticed something during the firing-range scene. The first part of that scene shows Riggs and Murtaugh discussing the Hunsaker case while firing their guns. When Riggs fires his Beretta the gun doesn't cycle. There is barely any recoil and I counted only one brass-ejection. And even that ejection happend half a second '''after''' the gun fired. Murtaughs gun too seems to have no recoil. To be honest I cant even see if the cylinder is spinning eventhough he is using double-action. (by the way, Murtaugh fires his gun only one time during the scene but he ejects six spent bullets anyways)..
The second part of the same scene however, when first Murtaugh and then Riggs shows off their skills, they seem to be using real weapons. (Riggs doing the smiley face and Murtaugh the center head shot).
[[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 07:58, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
:If by real you mean live firing then you are completely wrong. No way would they have had live rounds on set as it's pretty much illegal anyway. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:13, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
::No not real as in live bullets, I mean real as in real blank-firing weapons as opposed to prop-guns firing flame or whatever they do :P [[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 13:13, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
:::Well they were firing the blank adapted guns from what I could see the whole time. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:28, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
::::Thats where we disagree. I cant see the guns recycling or providing any recoil or brass-ejection during the first part of the scene, where as the second part of the scene the guns do. [[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 15:57, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
:::::I just watched the scene on Netflix. It certainly looks like they're firing blank firing guns. Don't blank firing weapons have less recoil? And the last shot that Riggs takes, you can actually see him flinch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 16:34, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

== Dummy Grenades? ==

All the film images of M26 grenades look as though they're cast iron training grenades, at least when compared to the photo of the real thing. --[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] 23:43 6 October 2012 (EST)

== How does Riggs have a PSG-1? ==

Was it ever explained in the movie how someone living (and obviously not living all that well) on a detective's salary could afford a 10 to 15 thousand dollar sniper rifle? - [[User: 2wingo]]

What kind of sniper rifles did the LAPD SWAT use back then? (Noahrussell007)
: The Remington 700P. - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Volcanic Repeater

2013-02-27T00:25:31Z

2wingo:

How exactly would one be able to work the Volcanic Repeater one-handed with any efficiency? I ask only because I recently got RDR and such an action design looks like it would require two hands to work with any speed. Seems like it would be extremely awkward, too. For a rifle it makes sense since you can put your whole hand into working the lever, but with the Repeater it's pull the trigger, flick the lever, pull the trigger, flick the lever. I could see someone under stress mistakenly trying to pull the lever and flick the trigger, then getting shot by the other guy. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:46, 26 February 2013 (EST)
: Maybe you're supposed to work it one-handed, ''a la'' John Wayne? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Guns, Girls and Gambling

2013-02-21T04:28:13Z

2wingo: Created page with "== "Configured for left-handed shooters?" == That sentence just seems unnecessary to me, because when you think about it, regular bolt-action rifle are already better suited ..."

== "Configured for left-handed shooters?" ==

That sentence just seems unnecessary to me, because when you think about it, regular bolt-action rifle are already better suited for lefties than righties, because we can use our right to work the bolt while keeping our shooting hand on the gun's wrist, decreasing the amount of time between chambering a round and firing. - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Heckler & Koch MP5

2013-02-17T06:54:21Z

2wingo:

==Screen Used MP5 variants==
[[Image:EODMP5A3rubberprop.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with mounted [[M203 grenade launcher]] 40mm as used by [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]'s character Jericho Cane in the film ''[[End of Days]]''.]]
[[Image:P00634.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used prop Heckler & Koch MP5A3 - 9x19mm. This non-firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The gun is constructed of rubber and was used during parts of the barge sequence where the live firing gun was unecessary. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00634&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:P00646.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used prop Heckler & Koch SP89 - 9x19mm. This non-firing plastic prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The replica SP89 was used as a stand in for the virtually identical live firing MP5K used earlier in the sequence and was used onscreen when Winter throws the gun away. The tip was slightly damaged during the throw and is in otherwise good condition. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00646&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]

==Other Variants of the MP5==

[[Image:H&K 94.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch 94 carbine with front pistol grip & barrel jacket]]
[[Image:MP5KA42.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5KA4 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K_MP54.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP54 earliest prototype of the H&K MP5 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:HKMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with Surefire Weaponlight and "SD"-style stock]]
[[Image:DayMP5K.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daisy Airsoft Model 14 Heckler & Koch MP5K - 9x19mm. One of the first ASG.]]
[[Image:HK_MP5SD.png|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 with a integrated suppressor - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5K-UMP.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW fitted with a [[UMP]]-style stock - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5SD3-with2-round-burst.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 with additional 2-round burst fire mode. (Note that this weapon '''is not''' an MP5SD6, the SD6 '''must''' feature the 3-round burst option. This trigger group is officially called "2-round burst" by H&K.)]]
[[Image:KACMP5RSRAIL.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5F with Knight's Armament Company rail system - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:JG MP5 RAS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''Airsoft''' MP5-RAS by Jing Gong - 6mm BB]]
[[Image:MP5KModified.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K with SEF trigger group and forward handguard removed - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K-MP5Ksuitcase.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K in trademark Heckler & Koch suitcase - 9x19mm]]
[[File:SerenityMP5K.jpg |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K used in ''[[Serenity]]'' - version with SEF Plastic Trigger Pack and West German 'Waffle pattern' stick magazine - 9x19mm. The LED sight, unfortunately, could not be found to mount on the weapon for the photograph.]]
[[Image:MP5SFA3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SFA3 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5SD1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD1 with 15-round magazine - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5KAC.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch MP5A5 with PDW stock, Bushnell Holosight, RIS foregrip, and KAC railed forend - 9x19mm]]
[[File:MP5 B&T visor stock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with Brugger & Thomet visor helmet stock, M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flash hider, and railed handguard - 9x19mm]]
[[File:MP5 UMP stock.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5A3 with UMP stock, RIS foregrip, KAC railed forend, M68 Aimpoint red dot sight, and weaponlight - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Mp5 reverse stretch.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5K "Reverse Stretch" - 9x19mm. This is a custom weapon created by combining an MP5K front end with a full-size MP5 receiver This results in an MP5K capable of accepting a standard MP5 stock, in this case an MP5F retractable stock.]]

==Early MP5 gone==

As you can tell, I deleted the section on early MP5s, for two reasons:

(1.) It's unlikely early MP5s appear in movies or TV, simply because those models are quite rare and basically not available outside of Germany. If you go to HKPRO's MP5 page, you can see what the earliest MP5s looked like.
(2.) The pictures were not early MP5s (one was an MP5A2 taken by MPM, which has since been moved to the MP5A2 section, the other was an A3 with a straight mag and older convex-style buttplate).

If anyone wants to restore it, please just copy and paste the code from an earlier revision; I made some other revisions that are important to keep. Don't undo all of my recent edits. Thanks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:10, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
: I've never seen a movie with the original HK54s, so I agree. If someone did want to put it on though, they have it on World Guns. -GM
:: I restored it, for three reasons: 1. I strongly disagree with the conclusion that a weapon has to be common to deserve inclusion. If that was a valid criterion a considerable number of the gun articles/sections on this site never would've been created. 2. The MP-54 is in [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl]], so what if it's a video game, this site covers those too. 3. People editing ''that'' article take one look at "MP-54" and assume it's a typo, because even if they do their research by looking at ''this'' article, they find no such weapon and so conclude that it doesn't exist. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 13:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I checked your page for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. That doesn't look to me like an MP-54; it looks more like a regular MP5A3 with an open front sight. Such sights do exist as after-market accessories for the MP5. However, seeing as it's a game, it could also just be an artistic decision made by the gun modeler. But it's definitely not supposed to be an MP-54; notice it has the wrong rear sight and hand guards for the -54. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

The page for [[Biggles: Adventures in Time]] (1986) mentions "old spec MP5's with staight magazines"; whether they're actual vintage early MP5s, I know not. British television and film productions might well use these guns. I worry about the deletion of the early section; it's going to clumsy to put it back when someone spots an early MP5, and someone ''will'' spot an early MP5 at some point. One will appear in the background of ''[[The Professionals]]'' or ''[[Who Dares Wins]]''; and although it may be true that they are "quite rare and basically not available outside of Germany", this database doesn't exclude German television programmes. I understand that German television has historically not been too keen on guns, but there must have been German cop dramas and television films and indeed theatrical films in the 1970s. -[[User:Ashley Pomeroy|Ashley Pomeroy]] 18:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

==Why not put the 'fake' MP5s on the HK94 section?==
It technically runs counter to common practice on IMFDB by putting the gun in the section of the weapon it's 'impersonating' rather than the real section. Case in point. We put fake M16A2s (that are A1s with A2 handguards) in the M16A1 section ... NOT the M16A2 section, even though that is the gun it is impersonating. Why don't we put the appearances of the C&C HK94s in the HK94 section? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

:Hmmm, I didn't notice that this wasn't being done. But yes, I agree, all C&C HK94s impersonating MP5s should go in the HK94 section. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
:Pay no attention to what I just edited out, I was being stupid.-protoAuthor

== Heckler & Koch MP5K's with the foregrips removed ==

What is the point of MP5K's with the fore grips removed appearing in movies? you don't have a grip, and could burn you hand if you have been shooting
:What? Speak english for me please.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Better?
:Yes. On topic, they are used as if they are machine pistols. Look at the Third Matrix movie page on this site. They are used in that movie. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ on the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

"Used as if they are machine pistols"? That would still apply even if the MP5Ks had foregrips but were being dual-wielded like in those scenes. In fact, MP5Ks (as opposed to MP5K-PDWs) ''are'' machine pistols, just relatively bulky ones (compared to models like the Glock 18) due to their lack of a buttstock (like the M93 Raffica). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:31, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

== SP-10 / MP-10 is also the PXP-10 ==

Coharie Arms is the current producer of the SP-10 / MP-10 and its model is now designated as the PXP-10 (although the MP-10 designation is still in effect for fully automatic builds). Their are some slight changes since the SP-10 production. Specifically, the texturing was altered and mounting screws were added on the lower foregrip. Additionally, the tint of the plastic may have changed as well. Coharie has recently announced that the tooling is up for sale.

== U.S. Police MP5 stocks ==

What is the most common stock type used by U.S. Police departments; the A2 type or the A3 type?

That is almost impossible to tell. I've seen both in my local, county and State police SWAT teams so both are used in all police department. The better question would be are there any US police department that uses the MP5K? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:According to the picture about half way down the page, the Northeast Metro Law Enforcement Council Special Operations Unit in Massachusetts does. [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70:hk-in-action-2-a-collection-of-actual-working-teams&catid=18:hk-in-action-series&Itemid=5] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:39, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

==MP5F Redundancy?==

Do we really need a section for the MP5F? It seems highly unlikely that this model would be used in films or television, and visually distinguishing it from an MP5A3 or MP5A5 would be practically impossible. The only external indicator would be the stock, and that can be interchanged with other MP5 variants. The section claims that this model is internally modified to handle high-pressure ammo, which would be irrelevant for a blank-adapted weapon seen on-screen. If you ask me, having a section for the MP5F would be like having a section for the US military's M9 Beretta on the Beretta 92 page. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 19:33, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:No contest, nuke it. From what I understand unless the gun image came directly from a movie armorer, if the weapon has not appeared in anything than it has no right to be on IMFDB. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:Just to add, there are actually some other exterior differences other than the stock. If by some miracle you can see the receiver markings on the spine in a movie, they will simply read HK MP5 rather than HK MP5-N. More realistically, you can also tell the difference by the front sling loop. On the original MP5s there is only a sling eye on the left hand side, mounted as the end of a pin. On the MP5F however, there is a sling loop on either side of the barrel, lower than the single loop on the standard MP5s. The original sling loop pin is replaced with a regular pin, and a "saddle" type mount for the sling loops is mounted under the barrel, placing the sling loops level with the centre of the barrel rather than above it as in the original MP5s. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:32, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

==MP5/10==

Could the MP5/10 be fitted with an MP5A3-style telescoping stock? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 00:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:: I believe so, I remember seeing MP5/10s with collapsible stocks. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Only the really cool ones :) plus if you google it, the very first picture of one has a telescoping stock. God bless Jeff Cooper and his 10mm. --[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

== MP5K without sights ==

In a couple of shows (only one I can think of right now is [[Ultimate Force]]) a version of the MP5K can be seen that appears to have no sights aside from a vestigial post at the front, and possibly a simple notch at the back. Anyone know if this was an actual version that was made a or a modification? As a side note, this version was actually used in real life by the British SAS, and can be seen in several "publicity" (for lack of a better term) photos taken during a training exercise.

Also, does anyone know if the single fire MP5 versions (Not chopped HK94s, but the things with paddle magazine releases and 3-lug muzzles, and with regular SEF or Navy trigger groups just missing the FA position) were ever available to the public as I think I have spotted a couple in something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:37, 13 April 2011 (CDT)

Bloody typical, immediately after I ask the question I find out that it an MP5KA1 (or MP5KA5 with 3 round burst added), and has low profile fixed pistol type sight for use when worn under clothing to prevent snagging. Does this deserve its own entry on the main page, as the visual differances between the K and KA1 are more than the difference between a MP5A2 and MP5A4. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:03, 13 April 2011 (CDT)
[[File:MP5KA1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KA1]]
[[File:MP5KA5.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KA5 fitted with the bulky old aiming point projector.]]

:Yes, the MP5KA1 should get its own section, although I'm not sure it's all that common (''[[Ultimate Force]]'' is so far the only media appearance of this variant that I've seen).

:And to answer your other question: In the U.S., the MP5SF (the semi-only versions) would not be legal for public ownership. The MP5SF is just a standard mil-spec/LE MP5 that has had its lower receiver swapped out for the SF trigger group; any of the burst/auto-fire lowers can be installed quickly, which means that legally, it is still a machine gun. And if it has a short barrel with the attachment lugs, it would also be an SBR (Short-Barreled Rifle). The reason that the HK94 and other MP5 semi-auto clones don't have the paddle mag releases is because the semi-auto lower receiver is permanently attached to the upper so that a select-fire lower can never be installed. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 10:04, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

== MP5KN ==

I think, the gun labeled as "MP5KN" in the MP5K section is just an MP5K fitted with a Navy trigger pack. The real KN has an extended barrel, like the PDW. Anyone agree with this? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:53, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
:I agree, have been meaning to change it for a while but keep forgetting about it. Below is an actual MP5KN (well not exactly as the only ones in existence were issued to the US Navy, but this one is a Navy lower MP5K that someone has fitted with a rare genuine MP5KN barrel so is as close as you will ever get). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:47, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:MP5K-N.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KN - 9x19mm]]

::Rather curious why Heckler & Koch haven't made MP5K with threaded barrel in the first place... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:25, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

== Suitcase gun ==

I was looking at the pictures of the MP5's at the top of this page, and the one of the MP5K in the specially-made suitcase got me wondering-wouldn't that be very hard to aim properly? No iron sights, firing from the shin...and who uses it anyway? CIA, MI6, FSD (I think that's the Russian security service). And say you wanted to buy one, where would you buy it? I doubt from a normal H&K weapons shop. And how much would it even cost, assuming it hasn't been banned in loads of places? Why has this even been made? I mean, I am very interested in guns-that-don't-look-like-guns. I just wonder, have there been suitcase guns before this? If so, did anyone ever actually use them, and can legally talk about it? Can anyone else tell me about any guns out there that are disguised as something else? Always interested...Alasdair.
:Supposedly HK offered it to private security firms for use by bodyguards; given you can't reload it without opening the case anyway, I assume it's only designed for use against someone who jumps your VIP at extremely close range where just pointing the case and shooting is all you're going to need. No idea if anyone ever seriously used one, mind. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:50, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
::It was used by the British SAS for close protection (they had it, don't know if they actually used it seriously though). The taught way to aim it was to brace the end of the case (the opposite end to the barrel obviously) horizontally across your chest. You can see pics of it being used [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=91:mp5k-series&catid=9:the-submachine-guns&Itemid=5 here], along with pictures of the more practical (IMHO) MP5K bag, which allows you to access the selector, as well as being more naturally "pointable". These did get around a bit, [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/Todays%20Pix/e160ef77.jpg 22 MP5Ks in the briefcase] were found by US soldiers as part of an arms cache in Baghdad in 2003. The same arms cache also had a [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/Todays%20Pix/09028da8.jpg gold plated MP5SD6]. If you google it you can find a few places selling them, with the prices being up to $4,000 for the case not including the gun, with about $2,500 apparently being about the average they go for these days.--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:43, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
Ah, O.K. Thanks. I once heard something about camera guns, though. Anyone know anything about them? Alasdair.
:Guns with cameras or guns in cameras? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:14, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

== MP5 side folding stock? ==

Where do MP5s with the side folding UMP style stock go, MP5A3 section? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:49, 11 May 2012 (CDT)
[[File:MP5 UMP stock.jpg|thumb|450px|none|MP5 with side folding UMP stock, RIS forend, Aimpoint red dot sight, flashlight and vertical grip - 9x19mm]]
:Depends on the trigger group. This one has the SEF, which tells that used to be either an A2 or A3. However, I'm not sure that it would into either category with the UMP stock. I would probably place it in the MP5A3 due to it being more similar to the extending stock than the solid.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:14, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

== MP5F? ==

Firstly the MP5F is such a minor variant of the MP5A5 that I don't think it deserves its own section, and secondly that isn't a picture of an MP5F. The only external differences (the major differences are internal to allow it to fire particularly powerful ammunition) are the double sided front sling loop and the redesigned stock, neither of which are present on this gun. Or am I missing something and the MP5F refers to a different model with the PDW stock? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:48, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

While I cant really tell the difference between the MP5F and MP5A3 here is a [http://www.tscmachine.com/images/HK-MP5Flarge2.jpg picture] of it. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 18:54, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

== HK SMG series ==

The SMG series weapons are totally different to the MP5 series, the only thing they have in commen is that the SMG series '''can''' use regular MP5 mags --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 12:15, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:Because if you read about the development of the H&K SMG 1 & 2 they are a development from the HK54A1 and that is an atempt to create a product improved MP5. In essence the SMG 1 is an evolutionary firearm between the MP5 series and the UMP series of firearms. We put it in with the MP5 for convenience sake.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 13:21, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:: Yes I have read about it... still different technology at all --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 13:35, 16 December 2012 (EST)

== Couple Questions about full-auto conversion ==

A. On a firearm that has been converted from semi-automatic to full-auto, does the safety still work?

B. When converting a semi-auto to full-auto, can you control the rate of fire, or is that predetermined by other factors?

- [[User: 2wingo]]

:A. Yes, the safety should still work after a FA conversion.
B. you can somewhat control the rate of fire based on the weight of the bolt, the tensile weight of the recoil springs and what ammo you use.
Both of those statements are based around a theoretical FA conversion. Such conversions are restricted to someone with a SOT license.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 18:33, 25 December 2012 (EST)

== .45 ACP ==
Why wasn't a version of the MP5 firing this round ever made? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:44, 31 December 2012 (EST)
:Not enough demand for mass production. Bill Flemming made the first conversions and the now Defunct Special weapons company made both HK94 and SP89 clones in .45ACP. Still they are both rare as hens teeth.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 19:52, 31 December 2012 (EST)

There is a .45 MP5. It's called the UMP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:53, 21 January 2013 (EST)
:The UMP is not roller locked and I think it uses a different trigger pack design( or at least a modified) + it has a completely different body design and material therefore the UMP is a totally different concept even when it evolved from the PIP (same for the HK SMG series). -[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 18:19, 21 January 2013 (EST)
I wonder why the 10mm MP5 didn't become more popular because of the 10mm's power over other pistol calibers [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:22, 21 January 2013 (EST)

The FBI hostage rescue team used it but they felt that the recoil was to great for it to be used even in controlled bursts. [[User:Blackguineapig|Blackguineapig]] ([[User talk:Blackguineapig|talk]]) 14:09, 22 January 2013 (EST)

:A cartridge's technical advantages aren't enough in and of themselves to win over potential major supporters like national LEO agencies. Still, if you pick over the various MP5/10 shooting range videos on youtube (especially where the 2-round-burst setting is used), you'll see that the recoil of the MP5/10 doesn't appear to be anything significant. A terminal ballistics specialist by the name of Dr. Gary Roberts even called it [http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1376584&postcount=109 "probably the most interesting and effective SMG ever made."]--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 22:51, 22 January 2013 (EST)

Yea I was some what mistaken there, the 'Firearms Training Unit (FTU) experts at Quantico, Virginia, determined that the 10mm was the best-performing law-enforcement cartridge of all autoloader rounds then available on the market' how ever the recoil was deemed by the 'that its recoil was excessive in terms of training for average agent/police officer competency of use and qualification' and once the 40 s&w hit the market it was adopted in its place [http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id7.html sorry I should have checked my facts before posting (I was half way right). [[User:Blackguineapig|Blackguineapig]] ([[User talk:Blackguineapig|talk]]) 19:29, 23 January 2013 (EST)

:The link you posted doesn't make any reference to 10mm long guns, only handguns. In any case, the "excessive recoil" of the 10mm in a handgun platform is only really a problem to someone who hasn't practiced enough, and there are technological aids such as ported barrels (as seen in the Glock 20C), or the new recoil spring setup in the Gen4 version of the Glock 20 that's supposed to reduce felt recoil. As for 10mm long guns, you have 4 points of contact (shoulder stock, cheek-weld with buttstock, trigger hand, offhand on handguard/foregrip) compared to handguns, so the recoil in controlled bursts shouldn't really be a problem (it is by no means a battle rifle cartridge). And there are plenty of technological aids for taming the recoil of long guns as well. It'd be nice if LEOs adopted something like a semiautomatic [[Steyr_TMP#Br.C3.BCgger_.26_Thomet_MP9|B&T MP9]] with a red dot sight, threaded barrel, and a miniaturized [http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/compensators/levang-linear-compensator-prod5594.aspx?ttver=2 linear compensator] to further reduce the recoil for a general-purpose firearm that could be holstered. You could even go further and get a [http://www.mechtechsys.com/glock.php Mechtech carbine converted off a Glock 20] for a "patrol carbine," or turn it into an "assault SMG" with a burst-fire/full-auto conversion and a system to mount an [[FN 303]] or underslung shotgun. This way you could use more efficient ammo (fired casings and bullets can sometimes be recovered and reused but fired smokeless powder can never be) that still has good midrange performance with stopping power that isn't tied to a minimum velocity for maximal effectiveness (as is the case with older 5.56mm NATO ammo). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 00:38, 24 January 2013 (EST)

== Full-Auto fire on the SD variants ==

I read somewhere that continuous full-auto fire will damage the integral suppressor. Is this true? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Catwoman

2013-02-13T02:23:04Z

2wingo: /* Her Costume */

I think the small revolver is an S&W Model 60

==Her Costume==
I saw this movie ONCE and only once when it came out, and I think her first costume design was a lot better than her second one. I know the whole idea of her second costume was to show off as much skin as possible but we all know it's stupid and no real superhero would do that. The first one was better. This movie sucked like a vacuum though. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
: That's a horrible insult to vacuums. At least when they suck, they're accomplishing something productive. - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Hanna (2011)

2013-02-12T04:20:43Z

2wingo:

==NO SPOILERS!!!==
This is an ongoing problem with people who make pages here. Tons of folks have NOT seen the movie and just happen upon the page. NO SPOILERS PERIOD! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:37, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

Please help ID these weapons that were left out of the page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:29, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

[[Image:Hanna 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Hanna 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Hanna 11.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I believe this is a [[Vektor SP1]]. There's a great closeup at 1:46 at [http://www.traileraddict.com/clip/hanna/where-am-i http://www.traileraddict.com/clip/hanna/where-am-i] (assuming they shot the entire scene with the same gun). Here is a capture of the closeup:
[[Image:Hanna 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Coulda sworn i saw a luger P08 in the commercial...--[[Special:Contributions/74.177.137.240|74.177.137.240]] 05:29, 29 March 2011 (CDT)

It might be a Luger, I've never seen a luger with the muzzle facing me so I can't be sure. Here's a screenshot from about 01:46 of [http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi984063257 http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi984063257]:
[[Image:Hanna 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

=="HK416"==

HK416? I think those might actually be CAS-V rails on M4s. The flip-up front sight is too far forward by the looks of things to be the 416. Just a thought.
:I agree, but think that they aren't even real guns at all, but the [http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/136 Tokyo Marui M4 S-System airsoft gun]. IIRC, they are not seen fired (except offscreen) in the film. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:01, 10 December 2011 (CST)
:Yeah, they look like the S-System, or at least a similarly-configured M4. Can't be sure because they aren't shown clearly. The shape of the front sight thoroughly proves they aren't 416s, though. Changing. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:21, 8 January 2013 (EST)

== Character Armory ==

I am a fanfiction writer. For those of you who are not familiar with the term, fanfiction is is a form of Alternate or Expanded Universe created by the fans of a work, rather than the work's original creator (elaboration available upon request).

For a Hanna fanfiction I have in the works, I plan to give her a personal armory consisting of one of each of the following: an assault rifle, a shotgun, a handgun, and a submachine gun, all given modifications by a gunsmith. After doing countless hours of research on this site and others, I have chosen the following:

The LWRC M6A2 PSD (modified to use the 6.8 Remington SPC cartridge instead of the 5.56 NATO)

The 12-gauge Mossberg 590 Compact Crusier (given a detachable muzzle-break for door-breaching and had the trigger disconnecter removed)

The Glock 29 (uses a modified EFA-2K "Spetsnaz" holster)

The Daewoo K7 (suppressor baffles reinforced to allow continuous full-auto fire without risk of damage, modified to accept ANY 9mm Uzi magazine instead of just the 30-round ones).

My problem is that I have no practical experience with guns, and have no knowledge about any of these weapons aside from what I have read about them, nor if some of these modifications are even possible in real life. So if anyone out there has real experience with any of these firearms and/or knowledge about the realism of their respective modifications, I would greatly appriciate your input.

- [[User: 2wingo]]

Well, for one thing, the M6A2 PSD doesn't need to be "modified" to use 6.8 because LWRC offers 6.8mm variants of their M6 line straight from the factory. Still, though, I'd suggest 5.56 instead since it (and its civilian counterpart, .223 Remington, are more widely available in both the US as well as abroad (I'm not aware of 6.8 being offered anywhere else but in the US and no foreign companies to my knowledge make 6.8 SPC rifles) and would be easier for someone like Hanna to get acquire. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:43, 8 January 2013 (EST)
: Good point. Maybe I'll change it to an H&K G36C. - [[User: 2wingo]]

A Glock 29 is a terrible idea. 10mm is already a powerful round, subcompact is going to be near-uncontrollable, especially for a 13-year old. Go with a Glock 26, 36 or perhaps a 27. Also, 10mm Auto is expensive, and 9mm is the worldwide standard. 6.8 SPC is an utterly unproven round, go with readily available 5.56. And why a K7? An MP5SD might be better, considering the K7 incredibly rare. Also, the shotgun needs a stock. A second pistol grip with an M4-style stock would be nice. Recoil could be a major problem for a small female, super-soldier or not.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 09:37, 8 January 2013 (EST)
: In my story, Hanna will be going up against people wearing kevlar, thick leather, and various forms of body armor, so her handgun has to have plenty of stopping power and penetration. What would you recommend, as far as 12-gauge shotguns go? - [[User: 2wingo]]

=== Update ===

First of all, thank you to all the users who took the time to offer me advice on my selections, here and elsewhere. Based on said advice, here are the changes I've made to Hanna's armory:

Assault Rifle: The Heckler & Koch G36C (with a vertical foregrip attached)

Shotgun: The 12-gauge Remington 870 "Witness Protection" (she probably won't carry it into combat, just keep it in her apartment in case she's attacked there.)

Handgun: The Gen4 Glock 26 (she'll usually use 12-round magazines)

Submachine Gun: The M3A1 "Grease Gun" (rate of fire decreased from 450 to 350 rounds per minute for greater controllability.)

Sniper Rifle: The Remington Model 81 Woodmaster (chambered in .300 Savage with detachable 15-round box magazine and customize-made detachable scope and supressor).

Any further input on what I would say is a vastly improved list will, of course, be appriciated, and again, thank you all. - [[User: 2wingo]]
: A few things to think about. With the submachine gun it would make sense to have one that uses the same caliber as the pistol, and 9mm being rather common worldwide makes the most sense. Same thing with the sniper rifle, .308 is rather common, though not as accurate as other rounds, it would be harder to trace. Otherwise it seems like a good selection. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] ([[User talk:Dover500|talk]]) 21:26, 18 January 2013 (EST)
:: Grease Gun is going to be just as hard to get parts for as the K7 and 450rpm is perfectly controllable. Uzi, MP5A2/A3, or similar 9mm SMG is better. And like Dover500 said, forget the .300 Savage round. .308 is vastly easier to get. Don't forget various sights, suppressors, etc for the guns. And loot the dead. Just like every RPG you've played, grab their ammo, wallets (money, possible fake ID, intel), and weapons/accessories. What you don't use, sell.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 22:49, 18 January 2013 (EST)

=== Update 2.5 ===

Once again, thanks to all who offered me advice and suggestions. Here is my current list:

Assault Rifle: Heckler & Koch G36C

Shotgun: 12-gauge Remington 870 "Witness Protection"

Handgun: Gen4 Glock 26

Submachine Gun: 9mm IMI Mini-Uzi

Sniper Rifle: Thompson Center Arms G2 Contender Rifle (originally chambered in .30-30 Winchester, heavily modified to accept the more ubiquitous .30-06 Springfield; screws and pivot pin also modified to allow the rifle to be assembled and disassembled without tools; end of barrel threaded to accept custom-made suppressor).

Backup Gun: Walther PPS (.40 S&W chambering).

I know most of you suggested that the sniper rifle use the readily-available .308 Winchester, but frankly, the amount of drop it has at long range seemed a bit much compared to the .30-06, which is also very common worldwide with a flatter trajectory and less recoil. - [[User: 2wingo]]

::Back-up NEEDS to be 9mm, just for ammo simplicity. Also, .40 S&W tends to have a bit more kick than 9mm, which is bad for a small female with a small gun. Use the 9mm PPS, or try one of the small Kel-tec or Karh pistols. Alternatively, I'd suggest the NAA Guardian or Seecamp LWS in .380 ACP. I've seen the Seecamp in a gun store, it's ''tiny''. Perfect for a small person, and you could hide it anywhere on you. You may want to start a thread in the Off-Topic part of the forum to avoid cluttering this page. Several other have done that, and you can post your story as well.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 10:38, 10 February 2013 (EST)

:::To be honest, I'd suggest carrying two 26's; one holstered on her hip or maybe in a shoulder holster, and the second holstered at the small of her back. Hope the story goes well, I'm quite partial to the odd fan-fic :D --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] ([[User talk:Taurus96|talk]]) 10:52, 10 February 2013 (EST)

== Moved ==

I've started a section for my Hanna discussions in the "Off-Topic" area of the forum. - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Hanna (2011)

2013-02-11T22:32:23Z

2wingo: /* Update 2.5 */

==NO SPOILERS!!!==
This is an ongoing problem with people who make pages here. Tons of folks have NOT seen the movie and just happen upon the page. NO SPOILERS PERIOD! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:37, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

Please help ID these weapons that were left out of the page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:29, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

[[Image:Hanna 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Hanna 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Hanna 11.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I believe this is a [[Vektor SP1]]. There's a great closeup at 1:46 at [http://www.traileraddict.com/clip/hanna/where-am-i http://www.traileraddict.com/clip/hanna/where-am-i] (assuming they shot the entire scene with the same gun). Here is a capture of the closeup:
[[Image:Hanna 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Coulda sworn i saw a luger P08 in the commercial...--[[Special:Contributions/74.177.137.240|74.177.137.240]] 05:29, 29 March 2011 (CDT)

It might be a Luger, I've never seen a luger with the muzzle facing me so I can't be sure. Here's a screenshot from about 01:46 of [http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi984063257 http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi984063257]:
[[Image:Hanna 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

=="HK416"==

HK416? I think those might actually be CAS-V rails on M4s. The flip-up front sight is too far forward by the looks of things to be the 416. Just a thought.
:I agree, but think that they aren't even real guns at all, but the [http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/136 Tokyo Marui M4 S-System airsoft gun]. IIRC, they are not seen fired (except offscreen) in the film. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:01, 10 December 2011 (CST)
:Yeah, they look like the S-System, or at least a similarly-configured M4. Can't be sure because they aren't shown clearly. The shape of the front sight thoroughly proves they aren't 416s, though. Changing. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:21, 8 January 2013 (EST)

== Character Armory ==

I am a fanfiction writer. For those of you who are not familiar with the term, fanfiction is is a form of Alternate or Expanded Universe created by the fans of a work, rather than the work's original creator (elaboration available upon request).

For a Hanna fanfiction I have in the works, I plan to give her a personal armory consisting of one of each of the following: an assault rifle, a shotgun, a handgun, and a submachine gun, all given modifications by a gunsmith. After doing countless hours of research on this site and others, I have chosen the following:

The LWRC M6A2 PSD (modified to use the 6.8 Remington SPC cartridge instead of the 5.56 NATO)

The 12-gauge Mossberg 590 Compact Crusier (given a detachable muzzle-break for door-breaching and had the trigger disconnecter removed)

The Glock 29 (uses a modified EFA-2K "Spetsnaz" holster)

The Daewoo K7 (suppressor baffles reinforced to allow continuous full-auto fire without risk of damage, modified to accept ANY 9mm Uzi magazine instead of just the 30-round ones).

My problem is that I have no practical experience with guns, and have no knowledge about any of these weapons aside from what I have read about them, nor if some of these modifications are even possible in real life. So if anyone out there has real experience with any of these firearms and/or knowledge about the realism of their respective modifications, I would greatly appriciate your input.

- [[User: 2wingo]]

Well, for one thing, the M6A2 PSD doesn't need to be "modified" to use 6.8 because LWRC offers 6.8mm variants of their M6 line straight from the factory. Still, though, I'd suggest 5.56 instead since it (and its civilian counterpart, .223 Remington, are more widely available in both the US as well as abroad (I'm not aware of 6.8 being offered anywhere else but in the US and no foreign companies to my knowledge make 6.8 SPC rifles) and would be easier for someone like Hanna to get acquire. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:43, 8 January 2013 (EST)
: Good point. Maybe I'll change it to an H&K G36C. - [[User: 2wingo]]

A Glock 29 is a terrible idea. 10mm is already a powerful round, subcompact is going to be near-uncontrollable, especially for a 13-year old. Go with a Glock 26, 36 or perhaps a 27. Also, 10mm Auto is expensive, and 9mm is the worldwide standard. 6.8 SPC is an utterly unproven round, go with readily available 5.56. And why a K7? An MP5SD might be better, considering the K7 incredibly rare. Also, the shotgun needs a stock. A second pistol grip with an M4-style stock would be nice. Recoil could be a major problem for a small female, super-soldier or not.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 09:37, 8 January 2013 (EST)
: In my story, Hanna will be going up against people wearing kevlar, thick leather, and various forms of body armor, so her handgun has to have plenty of stopping power and penetration. What would you recommend, as far as 12-gauge shotguns go? - [[User: 2wingo]]

=== Update ===

First of all, thank you to all the users who took the time to offer me advice on my selections, here and elsewhere. Based on said advice, here are the changes I've made to Hanna's armory:

Assault Rifle: The Heckler & Koch G36C (with a vertical foregrip attached)

Shotgun: The 12-gauge Remington 870 "Witness Protection" (she probably won't carry it into combat, just keep it in her apartment in case she's attacked there.)

Handgun: The Gen4 Glock 26 (she'll usually use 12-round magazines)

Submachine Gun: The M3A1 "Grease Gun" (rate of fire decreased from 450 to 350 rounds per minute for greater controllability.)

Sniper Rifle: The Remington Model 81 Woodmaster (chambered in .300 Savage with detachable 15-round box magazine and customize-made detachable scope and supressor).

Any further input on what I would say is a vastly improved list will, of course, be appriciated, and again, thank you all. - [[User: 2wingo]]
: A few things to think about. With the submachine gun it would make sense to have one that uses the same caliber as the pistol, and 9mm being rather common worldwide makes the most sense. Same thing with the sniper rifle, .308 is rather common, though not as accurate as other rounds, it would be harder to trace. Otherwise it seems like a good selection. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] ([[User talk:Dover500|talk]]) 21:26, 18 January 2013 (EST)
:: Grease Gun is going to be just as hard to get parts for as the K7 and 450rpm is perfectly controllable. Uzi, MP5A2/A3, or similar 9mm SMG is better. And like Dover500 said, forget the .300 Savage round. .308 is vastly easier to get. Don't forget various sights, suppressors, etc for the guns. And loot the dead. Just like every RPG you've played, grab their ammo, wallets (money, possible fake ID, intel), and weapons/accessories. What you don't use, sell.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 22:49, 18 January 2013 (EST)

=== Update 2.5 ===

Once again, thanks to all who offered me advice and suggestions. Here is my current list:

Assault Rifle: Heckler & Koch G36C

Shotgun: 12-gauge Remington 870 "Witness Protection"

Handgun: Gen4 Glock 26

Submachine Gun: 9mm IMI Mini-Uzi

Sniper Rifle: Thompson Center Arms G2 Contender Rifle (originally chambered in .30-30 Winchester, heavily modified to accept the more ubiquitous .30-06 Springfield; screws and pivot pin also modified to allow the rifle to be assembled and disassembled without tools; end of barrel threaded to accept custom-made suppressor).

Backup Gun: Walther PPS (.40 S&W chambering).

I know most of you suggested that the sniper rifle use the readily-available .308 Winchester, but frankly, the amount of drop it has at long range seemed a bit much compared to the .30-06, which is also very common worldwide with a flatter trajectory and less recoil. - [[User: 2wingo]]

::Back-up NEEDS to be 9mm, just for ammo simplicity. Also, .40 S&W tends to have a bit more kick than 9mm, which is bad for a small female with a small gun. Use the 9mm PPS, or try one of the small Kel-tec or Karh pistols. Alternatively, I'd suggest the NAA Guardian or Seecamp LWS in .380 ACP. I've seen the Seecamp in a gun store, it's ''tiny''. Perfect for a small person, and you could hide it anywhere on you. You may want to start a thread in the Off-Topic part of the forum to avoid cluttering this page. Several other have done that, and you can post your story as well.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 10:38, 10 February 2013 (EST)

:::To be honest, I'd suggest carrying two 26's; one holstered on her hip or maybe in a shoulder holster, and the second holstered at the small of her back. Hope the story goes well, I'm quite partial to the odd fan-fic :D --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] ([[User talk:Taurus96|talk]]) 10:52, 10 February 2013 (EST)

==== Moved ====

I've started a section for this in the "Off-Topic" area of the forum. - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Forum Request

2013-02-11T04:10:53Z

2wingo: /* Forum Account Request */

== Forum Account Request ==

I'd like to have a forum account so my questions related to my writing don't clutter up the discussion pages. [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Forum Request

2013-02-11T04:10:21Z

2wingo: /* Forum Account Request */ new section

== Forum Account Request ==

I'd like to have a forum account so my questions related to my writing don't clutter up the discussion pages.

Talk:Hanna (2011)

2013-02-10T07:38:37Z

2wingo: /* Update 2 */

Talk:Remington Model 8

2013-02-10T04:31:22Z

2wingo:

== Variations ==
[[File:RemingtonPolice Package.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Model 81 Special Police Woodmaster with 15 round magazine. Made by Remington for the police market. The company was inspired by the brisk sales enjoyed by the Peace Officer's Equipment Company.]]
[[File:HAWKEYE-PROTECTIVE-ALLIANCE-FINAL-FINAL-RGB1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Poster advertising the modification work by the Peace OFficer's Equipment Company of St. Joseph, Missouri.]]
[[File:Public Enemy Remington.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

== Remington Model 81 "Special Police" ==
The following is an exert from ''Police Gun Perfection: The Peace Officer Equipment Remington Autoloading Rifles''
By Cameron Woodall

The article in it's entirety can be found at http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=659

It is an excellent site and a wealth of information on the Model 8 and Model 81. Highly recommended.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 19:28, 31 December 2012 (EST)

[[File:REMINGTON-POLICE-GUNS-RGB.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington "Special Police" advertisement circa 1941. Note that besides the Model 81A the ad also features the Model 31 and Model 11 shotguns.]]

Recognizing the extraordinary firepower of the POE built Model 8, Remington wanted in on the action with a police rifle of their own. In 1938 the company was gearing up to bring out a new line of modified firearms dubbed “Special Police” aimed specifically for sale to the law enforcement community. The Model 11 & 31 shotguns were included in this lineup and after work with POE, the Model 81 as well. The Model 81 Police rifle was a powerhouse fit for close range work just like its Model 8 predecessor. With a 15 round magazine, the officer didn’t have to worry about immediate reloading nor lacking fire superiority! The “Special Police” rifle, introduced in early 1940, was essentially a continuation of the Peace Officers’ Equipment Co. Model 8 but with larger marketing hopes. As stated, the primary market for the “Special Police” was to law enforcement agencies but during the onset of WWII, Remington Asst. Director of Mfg., E.C. Hadley, had other ideas in mind,

''“National Guard companies could be supplied with these semiautomatics. They would prove to be of great value in guarding key points such as railroad stations, utility nerve centers, and bridgeheads. Rifles like these in the hands of trained marksmen would certainly prove their worth in dealing with parachute troops, for example. They could be picked off with the semiautomatic in the short time of their descent while the soldier with the bolt action rifle would lose precious seconds in reloading after each shot”'' (Chicago Daily Tribune, May 6th, 1940)

Mr. Hadley went on to further explain the “Special Police” was not a military firearm; it was built on a sporting / hunting platform and was not practical for frontline troop use. Remington’s Model 81 police version was certainly unique in the production firearms market; it had more magazine capacity and more punch than most of its contemporaries. But despite its impressive attributes, the police version of the Model 81 was only produced in limited quantities.

'''Production'''

Remington was in the works with Peace Officer’s as early as March 1938 on the acquisition of rights in order to produce their own version of the 15 round magazine. After estimating costs of producing the magazines themselves or paying royalties, Remington ended up purchasing the magazines from POE, then fitting and bluing them at the factory. An interoffice memo dated Dec. 29, 1939 spills out the need for master trigger plates and receivers to test POE magazine interchangeability. The magazines were to be fitted to these master assemblies prior to fitting to the actual production host rifle. Special Police Model 81’s do not have unique serial numbers; this is because there were not enough of them manufactured to constitute Remington having specially machined trigger plates and receivers on hand. Instead Remington simply used standard 81′s in stock to make up Police guns. There is a trend however of Special Police rifles falling into certain serial number blocks. The most common blocks during this study were 99XX – 10XXX, 136XX, 155XX-157XX, and 187XX – 202XX.

'''POE Magazine Capacities'''

''15 Rounds''

The predominant POE magazine is the 15 round version. These are found on the majority of both the POE 8’s and Special Police 81’s. In an overwhelming majority of POE 8 & 81’s studied (this includes solitary magazines), 55 out of 61 were 15 round versions. This capacity is also depicted in the 1937 U.S. Patent filed by Newton S. Hillyard. There are some slight differences between Police 8 & 81 magazines. Model 8 magazines can be identified by the markings “Pat. Pend.” underneath the company name, and the number “15” between the bottom two indicator holes. The Model 8 magazines will have 3 indicator holes, one on top, two on bottom. Model 81 magazines will only have 2 round indicator holes, one on bottom, one on top. On Model 81 magazines, the number “15” was omitted and “Pat. Pend.” was replaced with “Patent No. 2, 081, 235”. Per Remington’s instruction, most model 81 magazines will be hand marked by caliber. Due to the nature of their manufacture, POE magazines will vary slightly in certain areas with evidence of hand filing. A number of different followers have been noticed. Occasionally the inside of the magazine release lever (called the depending lever) will have the last two digits of the serial number stamped or the magazine number if more than one were made for a rifle. This evidently is there because these magazines were handmade and individual parts were matched to the corresponding magazine box. In the photograph note the different indicator holes, serial number location, and Patent markings.

''10 Rounds''

Peace Officer Equip. Co. also produced a 10 round magazine. Their prevalence is substantially less than that of the 15 round versions; in fact only 1 example out of the 46 studied was found. These magazines are not aftermarket jobs but were produced by POE in limited numbers and have only been found on Model 8’s. They only have 1 indicator hole located at the top of the magazine. Pictured below is rifle # 697XX (May, 1936) marked, “Sheriff’s Office Fulton MO.”, and equipped with a 10 round magazine.

[[File:10-round-magazine.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Model 81A with 10 round magazine.Photograph courtesy of Doug Baier]]

An advertisement below, from the 1934 Peace Officers’ Equipment catalog, shows a two specialty law enforcement firearms. Although the Model 8 is advertised as a “15 Shot High Power Autoloading Rifle”, the magazine in the photograph is of considerable shorter length than the more common 15 round version. Its length is consistent with rifle # 697XX.

[[File:Flash-Commander-Flyer-03.jpg|thumb|none|400px|1934 Peace Officer's Equipment advertisement.Image courtesy of The Hillyard Companies]]

''5 Rounds''

The 5 round version has only been found on 30cal. Special Police 81’s associated with the Connecticut State Police. The magazines appear to be converted from 15 rounders and barely protrude below the trigger guard. It is very likely these were factory shortened magazines. The only foreseeable advantage of this setup is quick changing of the magazine, as with the shortened length, there is no gain in cartridge capacity over a standard Model 81 magazine. Only three examples of this type were observed during this study, two such rifles # 155XX, and # 100XX are pictured below. Notice that rifle # 155XX is lacking Police Gun markings entirely which is unusual but not alarming. All other aspects of this rifle correspond to original Special Police rifles.

[[File:5roundmagPolicespecial.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Special Police Model 81A w/ 5 round magazine.Photograph courtesy of Joe Homberger]]ne.

[[File:5roundRemmag.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Model 81A Police Special w/5 round magazine.Connecticut State Police 81 #100XX. This rifle was manufactured in Jan. 1940 and is among the first of Special Police rifles built. After a decade of department service, it was sold by the State Police in November 1950.Photograph courtesy of Bob and Jeff Pajtas]]

== Model 8 magazine and Model 81 Magazine ==
[[File:8-81-magazine-comparison-names.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

== Miscellaneous ==
Just curious if the website owner would care to request permission to use my Remington Model 8 image after lifting it from my own webhost, since I even went to the trouble of watermarking it... (Hint, hint)

:This site isn't like wikipedia, so it is perfectly fine. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== fixed box magazine ==

How do you load one if it can't be detached from the gun? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Carcano Rifle Series

2013-01-31T07:50:45Z

2wingo:

:Because I'm not the only one on here who thinks the JFK assassination was a bogus cover up, I took a Carcano rifle and tried to rack the action and dry fire it three times in four seconds. Could hardly do it. Now try doing that with live ammunition (causing kick), aim 300yds away at a moving target and try that. This guy was trained in the Marines but even they aren't that good. It's more logical to assume some government officials (or hitmen) were taking shots with M14s at him from the grass knoll. But not to start contreversy or anything, I'm just throwing that out there. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::Without starting controversy myself...I haven't read too much into the theories about it being a cover-up, but is it really so hard to believe that some communist loser would kill Kennedy? I've always thought the JFK conspiracy theories were the sort of thing that leftists, who can't accept that JFK was killed by one of their own, would concoct for the sake of their own bullshit world view. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:15, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

::Are you trying to say that leftists are communists?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:57, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

:::Not at all. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
::::I'm just looking at it from a logical point of view. Plus, didn't they find like seven bullets in him? Although three were accounted for, the magic bullet theory makes it possible to believe a guy can have seven bullets in him from three rounds (I think that's what that was about but I'm not an expert on the subject). And the government wouldn't allows the mortician to examine certain things. I always thought the ordeal stunk with conspiracy. I'm not a leftist or a communist, but I just see the holes and it makes me suspicious. Of all these things, the gun problem I mentioned above is my strongest belief of a cover up. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:::: The weirdest thing about this page is that we have this discussion of JFK's murder, a mention of it on the actual page, and no metion of the Oliver Stone movie. [[Special:Contributions/59.100.119.10|59.100.119.10]] 02:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::::: The weirdest thing is why would someone won't believe that some crazy nut killed the president but instead some government hitmen. Why would they do that? Gods knows why. Some say it was Israel, some say it was the soviets, some the cuban government and some don't even know why. I say it was Lee Harvey Oswald a former United States Marine that was trained on the [[M1 Garand]]. I know that thinking about a deep conspiracy and letting your imagination run wild is better than thinking a lone 24 year old communist sympathizer could kill the president of the united states of america with a italian rifle made in 1940 alone, all by himself could kill the most powerful person in the world back then in 1963. From what i know about president's Kennedy assassination, they found two bullets in him, one to the head and one to back. The bullet to the head was fatal. I don't believe that president Kennedy was killed by anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald. John, i come from Brazil, a country that suffered a coup d'état in 1964 which the United States government took part so a conspiracy is not too far out there especially during the cold war but to ignore clear evidence that JFK was shoot and killed by Lee Harvey Oswald is stupid. I don't want to offend you John but i find all conspiracy theorys stupid.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 03:20, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:Haliburton had him killed because he was going to pull us out of 'Nam, which was netting Haliburton tons of money in gov't contracts. They used Oswald as a patsy and had Jack Ruby kill him so he wouldn't talk (Ruby was dying from cancer and he didn't give a shit if he was in jail for the last few months of his life). Plus it couldn't have JUST been Oswald shooting because too many shots were fired in too little time. In addition, The Carcarno is a piss poor rifle and Oswald couldn't have shot Kennedy in the back from his position-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 06:23, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
::No guys, you don't get it. JFK was killed by the New World Order who were working for the Lizard Overlords that control all existance. They iced Kennedy because he was fucking around Vietnam and Nam is the one of the Homes of the Lizard Overlords. They also worked alongside Castro so he could get revenge from the Bay of Pigs incident. Castro is also the Satan himself. The Italian Mob also 5 trillion Lizard Dollars to the Lizard Overlords so they could waste JFK because they hated Kennedy because he was Irish. Obama also travelled back in time using the Delorean with the Help of Doc Brown and killed Kennedy Himself using his Lucifer Powers. Satan and Lucifer are also different people by the way.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:46, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
:Oh my god! You're a genious! Someone call the CIA-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 17:31, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I knew the Doc was in on it!--[[Special:Contributions/74.177.185.189|74.177.185.189]] 18:58, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The Libyans made him do it! He jacked their plutinoum! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:34, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Am I the only one here who is a skeptic? --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 04:49, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

All you guys are wrong! There was a single, magic bullet forged by Illuminati mystics who had been hired by Joe DiMaggio to take out Kennedy in revenge for his part in Marilyn Monroe's death! Oswald was just some jerk who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Sliders

2013-01-29T20:40:12Z

2wingo:

I'll try to get some screencaps a bit later, but I can't find very many high-quality episodes online. I may just have to use Hulu screencaps. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:01, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I stumbled upon dvds in the library but some of the disks are incredibly scratched [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:13, 29 January 2013 (EST)
:It's on Netflix Instant View if you have it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:17, 29 January 2013 (EST)
::I wish I still have Netflix, but I had to cancel because I just stopped watching. I might get it back eventually. 5 Seasons and well, from what I've read about the 5th season, it was full of disappointment. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:55, 29 January 2013 (EST)
:::I didn't even realize that this page was incomplete. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:10, 29 January 2013 (EST)
: Scratched discs can be easily repaired by polishing them with lemon Pledge. A dollop of that can make a previously un-readable disc work like a charm. - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:The Maltese Falcon (1941)

2013-01-29T19:48:52Z

2wingo: /* Falcon Statue */

==Falcon Statue==
The last time I was in Malta, I was really disappointed. No one sold a falcon statue ;) Seriously. If they want something for the tourists to snatch up, a cheap Falcon statue made in China would be the trick. :) I tried to explain it to dozens of small shop owners and they didn't know what I was talking about. It struck me as an obvious "tourist" thing to sell. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 13:41, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Luger ==
In one scene, The "lady" told Sam Spade that his previous "protector" uses a Luger as one of his sidearms. I wonder, if the producers of the movie in that time showed that particular Luger, it will be a german model, or it would be an american Luger? Lets remember that in the early 20's (if I'm not wrong) the US army bought Lugers under the license of the german factory. Also lets remember that the movie was set in 1941, one year early of the intervention on US in the World War II. [[User:Rodrigo79]] 08:50, 29 January 2013

Talk:The Incredible Hulk (2008)

2013-01-29T04:15:19Z

2wingo: /* Al Vrkljan */

==Need M16 confirmation==

[[Image:Inc_hulk_m16_m4_1.jpg|thumb|none|800px|]]

Is the soldier on the left carrying an M16A2 or A4?
--[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 03:39, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
::From this shot it's almost impossible to tell. A hint is that the detachable carry handle tends to be squatter and flatter than the non-detachable one from the A2. But in this shot you can't tell. It's too non-distinct. [Edit] it only 'appears to be squatter and flatter, because the receiver body is raised by the lower portion of the removable carry handle. The 'hole' in the carry handle is definitely a different shape than that of a full, non-detachable carry handle, but the overall height on both rifles is the same. Just wanted to clarify that.
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[Image:M16A4Standard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A4 with carry handle attached and standard A2 handguards - 5.56x45mm]]
[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:42, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

The rocket launcher that no one knows about is a Nerf N-Strike Titan AS-V.1 with so slight changes but the grip is the exact same
:Really? they used a Nerf gun in a film!?![[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 10:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
::LOL he is right. Here's a pic of the original Nerf below
::[[Image:Nstrike-nerf-unity-power-system.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
::It does seem to be made from (or at least cast from) a Nerf. The stirup pump/shoulder stock at the back has been removed, and a front section added, but there are very definitely some parts that are the same, such as the dual grips with dual triggers, the bracket on the bottom of the grip (which has something added to it in the movie)) and the scope (i think) mount. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:28, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

==New screencaps==

I just got this movie on DVD. If nobody objects, I'd like to get rid of all the old screencaps and replace them with new ones as soon as I take them. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

Go ahead, I just got the DVD recently myself, and I was going to ask the same thing, but you got here first. Make sure you include that rocket launcher they tried to used on The Abomination when he first appeared, I'm not sure if it's a prop or an actual missle launcher, they have some good shots of it in the movie though.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

:I've been watching and screencapping for an hour now, and one thing that's becoming obvious to me (and which has been sorta obvious for a while) is that my new laptop's GPU is really not so great. The image quality of most of my screencaps has been disappointing. I screencapped ''[[New Jack City]]'' last weekend, and compared the images I took on my current laptop to some screencaps which I took on my older laptop for another site a few years ago. Even though my old laptop is now 4 years old, it appears to produce better screencaps than my CURRENT laptop!

:So if you want to take a few shots and compare them to mine so that we can see whose are better, it wouldn't be a bad idea. I want IMFDB to have the best quality images possible. If your computer produces better ones than mine and you want to put yours up, so be it. -MT2008

Here's two I took from the Campus fight, what do you think?:

[[Image:TIH_M2.jpg|400px|none|]]
[[Image:TIH_M4.jpg|400px|none|]]

:Here are two of mine:

[[Image:Vlcsnap-147092.jpg|400px|none|]]

:As you can see, the first one in JPEG isn't so great. I started taking some in PNG (the second one), which looks better, I guess. One thing I'd recommend - adjust the aspect ratio on yours so that the image isn't distorted. Like, I should probably edit mine to ditch those black bars. -MT2008

I'm not really sure how to adjust the Aspect ratio, I have a Pan & Scan thing, but I tried that once, and it looked awful. I use CyberLink PowerDVD for my Screencaps, I noticed one time when I took a screencap for Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, they appear to be slightly stretched, so it looks like you win. As for the black bars, whenever I do a widescreen movie, I just crop out the bars, if you like I could take them out of your screenshots and reupload them.

:I dunno, it's just that a lot of the shots you've taken in the past are really good quality. If you figure it out, yours might be far superior to mine, in which case, I'd rather have yours. Not sure how CyperLink works (I don't use it myself), but is there a video option? Aspect Ratio is usually under that menu.

:I'll crop out the bars, shouldn't be a problem.-MT2008

: I also have it, I bought it the first day but I already had two movies saved in full and didn't need anymore work. If anyone needs extra shots let me know. -GM

The stretch thing isn't anything really noticeable, you need the movie and the screencap side by side to notice anything. I can't seem seem to find anything that says video at all, I can zoom it in and stretch it to fit the monitor, but that will just lower the quality of the screenshots. Anyway, do you want dibbs on the page, or would you like me to upload some of my own?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

: Well, for now, I will do it, unless you really want to instead. But if not, I do give you free reign to supplement my shots with any of your own that you feel are superior or necessary. -MT2008

I will upload extra shots shots when your done, you know that rocket launcher they attempt to use on The Abomination? Well, if it's okay with you, I would like to include a shot of The Abomination catching the rocket out of the air.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:32, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

==Al Vrkljan==
I was never lucky enough to catch a convo with this guy before he seemed to have left the site. Question, how do you pronounce his last name? -GM

:Beats me. Hopefully he'll be back, because his company has worked on a lot of productions done in Canada, so he could probably answer lots of questions about guns in some of his movies. -MT2008

: It's pronounced "Ver-Klan." - [[User: 2wingo]]

==Does anyone know what these are?==

Take a look at this image of Al with the G36C and note the thing on the rear part of the receiver that flashes green and red:

[[Image:TIH 11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Any idea what this thing is? All of the commandos seem to have them on their weapons. I've never seen anything like it.
::::It's a radiation sensor to track Banner.[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
: They probably have something to do with the tranquilizer system.
::All I know is that they flash and beep just before they enter the room.
:::Maybe they measure gamma levels, so they can find Banner easier. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==M&P==
Why is Banner's old style revolver called an M&P? It's not an a M&P. the ejector rod looks like a plain jane Model 10. The M&P had that ejector rod notch cut into the ejector shroud/barrel which added onto the production time and ended costing more due to manhours. The gun that Banner has is a straight line ejector rod model, which makes it a standard Model 10. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

== Grenade Launcher ==

I don't have this film on DVD so can't check myself, but at any point do you actually see the chambers cycle? The reason I ask is that I think that these may actually be cosmetic, and the whole gun is mocked up from a single shot launcher. As far as I can see there are 4 reasons this cannot be a DefTech 37mm MGL. 1: The chambers are too short, although this could mean the 40mm version but I doubt it. 2: In the first and 3rd screenshots you can see that it has an external hammer and the angle of the back of the receiver is too severe. 3: The position of the pistol grip relative to the back of the receiver is wrong when you compare it to the DefTech MGL. 4: Most importantly, you can see that in the last screenshot, the circular bulge that is the actual chamber of the weapon is visible, behind the cosmetic rotating chambers.

I believe that it is actually the [[S&W gas gun|Def Tech 1315]] pictured below, with either an older, after market or modified stock, with cosmetic chambers and RIS. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:58, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

[[Image:DefTech1315.jpg|thumb|500px|none|DefTech 1315 - 37mm]]

== Tranquilizers ==

I'm not 100% on this (due to the lighting and fast-pace of the scenes in question), but I think the tranquilizers are coming from one of the attachments on the commando'es guns (namely the one that looks like a tac-lit with an over-sized head), not the guns themselves. BigD, 10-23-2012, 20:06
:The "tac-lit with an over-sized head" is a flashlight. They're using tranquilliser ammunition in regular guns. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 12:48, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

Batman: Arkham City

2013-01-28T05:35:10Z

2wingo: /* "Bat Killer" */ "more stranger" is grammatically incorrect.

[[Image:ARKHAMCITY-LOGO.jpg‎|thumb|right|301px|''Batman: Arkham City'' (2011)]]
'''''Batman: Arkham City''''' is the sequel to the award-winning ''[[Batman: Arkham Asylum]]''. The game takes place one year later, when the derelict "Arkham City" area of Gotham has been turned into a massive prison for criminals and psychopaths, with security provided by a PMC called "TYGER." When a speech by Bruce Wayne regarding closing Arkham City ends in his capture by the mysterious Hugo Strange, he, as Batman, must discover what Hugo's plans are and end them.

The game features new gadgets, Catwoman as a playable character, more challenging puzzles and additional optional missions. [[Mark Hamill]] returns as the voice of Joker in this sequel.

'''The following weapons can be seen in the video game ''Batman: Arkham City'':'''
__TOC__ 

==Sphinx 3000==

Two-Face uses two [[Sphinx 3000]] pistols, erroneously described in-game as .45s, when he is first seen in the courthouse. Joker is later seen also using one of these pistols, and Gotham City Police officers are shown holding them in the game's ending. An early screenshot shows that it was going to have a black finish instead.
[[File:Sphinx 3000.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Sphinx 3000 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Batman-TFpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two-Face aims his pistol at Catwoman as the game attempts to fit every courtroom-related pun in existence into a single cutscene.]]
[[Image:Batman-TFpistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Among others, Batman's shout of "Objection!" has Two-Face assume his best Phoenix Wright pose and "overrule" the vigilante with his handgun.]]
[[Image:Batman-TFpistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Somehow it surprises Catwoman that Two-Face has two of something.]]
[[Image:Batman-Tavor-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two-Face's pistols are also seen on the wall in the GCPD building.]]
[[File:BACSphinx3000Joker.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A worse for wear Joker holds the Sphinx 3000.]]
[[File:BACSphinx3000Black.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two Face holds a black Sphinx 3000 in an early screenshot.]]

==Inglis Hi-Power==

An [[Browning_Hi-Power#Inglis_Hi-Power|Inglis Hi-Power]] is seen in silhouette on posters near the central "Restricted Area" of Arkham City.

[[Image:Inglis Hi-Power.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Inglis Hi-Power - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Batman-Pistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Inglis Hi-Power is seen on a TYGER PMC poster. Note the raised, fixed rear sight.]]

==M1911A1==
The Abramovici Twins have dual [[M1911A1]] pistols tattooed on their chests. This is only visible on an unlockable concept art, in the actual game they have different tattoos.

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|400px|none|World War II Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:The Abramovici Twins.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Unlockable concept art of the Abramovici Twins.]]

== Deadshot's wrist guns ==

Deadshot, a minor villain encountered at the end of a side-mission, carries four fictional custom pistol-like weapons strapped to the backs of his wrists, fitted with large muzzle devices resembling suppressors. The weapons lack any clear mode of operation, being just recievers without triggers or visible sources of ammunition, and have no sights, Deadshot apparently being so good he doesn't need a reference point to aim them.

[[File:BACDeadshotHandguns.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Deadshot with his custom guns in a game over screen.]]

==Remington 870==

The [[Remington 870]] shotgun with pistol grip seen in [[Batman: Arkham Asylum]] returns, and is seen in the hands of gang members, usually during stealth sections. A cop patrolling a captured portion of Penguin's museum called them "fully automatic assault shotguns".

[[File:Remington870Pstlgrip.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sawn-off Remington 870 - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:Batman-Remington-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Immediately before the start of the first stealth section, Joker's thugs get the drop on Batman, one aiming his Remington 870.]]
[[Image:Batman-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several Remington 870s seen on the wall in the GCPD building.]]

=="Assault Rifle"==

Fictional AR15-pattern rifles are used by criminals, undercover police, TYGER guards, and members of Aaron Cash's Medical Protection Team. These weapons are incorrectly shown with the right side the same as the left, meaning they have no ejection port or forward assist. They appear to be loosely based on the [[Noveske Rifleworks Diplomat]]s seen in ''[[The Expendables]]'', even featuring a rather exaggerated version of the Vltor VIS-1 upper's handguard. They also feature a slightly altered "compromise rail", which is a optional attachment made for the [[G36]] family of rifles. According to Penguin they fire 100 rounds a minute and are so inaccurate you don't even need to try and calls them machine guns. In the Harley Quinn DLC the rifle receives a bit of a makeover via graffiti painted on it.

[[File:NDiplomat.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Noveske Rifleworks Diplomat with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope and Surefire M900 weaponlight foregrip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:SL8-1 newModel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch SL8-6 Commercial rifle - 5.56x45mm. The fictional rifle's carry handle is copied from the one fitted here.]]
[[Image:Batman-UnknownAR-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Returning character Aaron Cash shows off the rifle's left hand side...]]
[[Image:Batman-UnknownAR-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And its ''other'' left hand side.]]
[[Image:Batman-UnknownAR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The fictional rifles seen on the skills menu.]]
[[Image:Batman-UnknownAR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another image of the rifle on the skills screen, as Batman reveals that the real reason he doesn't use guns is that he's just really bad at it.]]
[[Image:Batman-UnknownAR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Low-detail models seen on the wall in the abandoned Gotham City Police Department (GCPD) building.]]

==Heckler & Koch G36KV==

While the rifle model in the game has changed, the ishown in Detective Vision mode when looking at enemies armed with rifles is still the [[Heckler & Koch G36|Heckler & Koch G36KV]] from the first game.

[[Image:G36KV-bk.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''Airsoft''' Umarex "Heckler & Koch G36KV" with G36A2 carry handle and retractable stock - (fake) 5.56x45mm. The version shown in the game has a "C" carrying handle, but a similar stock.]]
[[Image:Batman-G36Icon-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The red icon to the right is identical to the one used in the original game.]]

==Colt M4A1==

Members of the TYGER PMC sent to apprehend Batman were shown using what appeared to be [[M4A1]] rifles in the "Hugo Strange" trailer. These were replaced with the fictional rifle in the final game, though parts of this trailer are used in the animated icon for the game on the PS3 and Xbox 360 dashboards.

[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M4A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:ARKHAMCITY-M4-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|One of the PMC troops holds his M4A1 as he searches for Batman.]]

==IMI Tavor TAR-21==
Snipers in the game use a modified [[TAR-21]] rifle with a massive, silly barrel extension which apparently turns it into a .50 calibre rifle without changing the 5.56mm magazine. This is an improvement on the preview screenshots, however, which had Batman's "Detective Vision" identify it as a "120mm sniper." When used by regular enemies, they have red visible laser sights with the beam coming out of the barrel (!) that make a "laser" sound when the sniper is targeting Batman. The sniper Deadshot also uses the modified TAR-21 in addition to his four fictional pistols, despite the game acting like his rifle is extremely distinctive. Penguin claims that they can "blow a single hair off a man at 1000 yards" and if aimed lower there won't even be a head left.

[[Image:Tavor-tar.jpg|thumb|none|400px|IMI Tavor TAR-21 with Kimber Mepro red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Batman-Tavor-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the modified TAR-21s seen on the wall of the GCPD building.]]
[[Image:Batman-Tavor-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The first sight of the Tavor-sniper-thing in the game is through the rifle's scope, an SVD-style reticle minus the stadiametric rangefinder and numbers. The green dot, as it turns out, is actually a laser sight...]]
[[Image:Batman-Tavor-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...''a smiley face'' laser sight, in fact. While putting a laser aiming module on a sniper rifle (or an assault rifle that thinks it's one) is generally a terrible idea, this is ''Joker'' we're talking about.]]
[[Image:Batman-Tavor-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Batman uses his suit's Detective Mode, which apparently includes a portable ballistics lab, to scan the bullet hole. The text in this scene read "120mm sniper" in preview screenshots.]]
[[Image:Batman-Tavor-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Seemingly Gotham City itself is rather less bothered by ballistics since bullets travel in perfectly straight lines there.]]
[[Image:Batman-Tavor-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Finally locating the "sniper rifle," Batman discovers this makeshift remote control rig attached to it.]]
[[Image:Batman-Tavor-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Despite Deadshot using the same TAR-21 as anyone else, the game acts like his one is unique; this includes his use of 10.36x77mm rounds, better known as .408 Cheytac.]]
[[Image:Batman-Tavor-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Deadshot, being a ''comic book'' sniper, also does everything with four pistols strapped to the backs of his forearms.]]

==SIG SG 552==

Early screenshots shows that that the [[SIG SG 552]] was going to be the main rifle in the game.

[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG SG 552 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:BACSIGSG552.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Joker goon holds a low detailed SIG SG 552. This scene never appears in the game.]]
[[File:BACSIGSG552(2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another Joker goon holds a better detailed SIG SG 552. Note the younger looking Batman.]]
[[File:BACSIGSG552Hostage.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Joker clown takes a Humanitarian Aid doctor hostage. This seen is in the game but takes place in the church rather than outside.]]
[[File:BACSIGSG552StockSmash.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Batman apparently angry as always smashes a goon in the face with the stock of the SG 552. Note the black Joker goon on the left, the wooden baseball bat, also Batman cannot do this attack in the game.]]

==Steyr AUG==

A [[Steyr AUG]] is shown on posters throughout Arkham City in the hands of a PMC soldier. It is shown with an extended barrel and incorrectly has a magazine added forward of the grip and a handguard added to the barrel.

[[Image:Steyr-AUG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Steyr AUG - Austrian Army Version - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Batman-AUG-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Batman admires the strange mutant AUG on a billboard.]]

==Milkor MGL Mk 1S==

A [[Milkor MGL#Milkor MGL Mk 1S|Milkor MGL Mk 1S]] is used by Two-Face in the E3 2011 video, and is used in Batman's campaign by Penguin; Two-Face only uses it when fighting Catwoman at the end of her missions. Like the TAR-21, the barrel has been extended, though not by nearly as much.

[[Image:MGL32.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Milkor MGL Mk 1S - 40x46mm]]
[[Image:Batman-MGL-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Penguin reels, grenade launcher in hand, as Batman prepares to administer a well-deserved beating.]]
[[Image:Batman-MGL-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In Penguin's museum, this boney customer has an MGL of his own, posed as if the weapon is fitted with a foregrip even though the model doesn't have one. The button for this display case has Penguin claim that the rounds in the MGL weigh "three and a half pounds," seven times what the average 40mm grenade warhead weighs.]]
[[Image:Batman-MGL-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|At the end of Catwoman's side-missions she has to take down Two-Face in a stealth section, the villain having replaced his pistols with an MGL...]]
[[Image:Batman-MGL-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...which seems to be loaded with old-school scrolling shooter ammo, given that it fires two rockets which orbit one another.]]

==Mk 2 hand grenade==

Armed thugs sometimes use [[Mk 2 hand grenade]]s to flush the player character out of cover.

[[Image:MK2 grenade DoD.jpg|thumb|none|200px|Mk 2 "Pineapple" High-Explosive Fragmentation hand grenade]]
[[Image:Batman-Mk2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In Penguin's museum, Batman encounters various cases with posed human skeletons, including these doing the Three Wise Monkeys poses. With hand grenades.]]

==TS-50 Anti-Personnel Mine==

A land mine resembling a flattened-out and oversized Italian [[TS-50 anti-personnel mine]] with added flashing lights in case anyone has trouble finding it is used by enemies in the later areas of the game. Penguin referrers to them as "a pound or two of C4".

[[Image:Tecnovar TS-50.jpg|thumb|none|200px|TS-50 anti-personnel mine]]
[[Image:Batman-Mine-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Several belts of mines protect approaches to an underpass near the city Museum taken over by Penguin.]]
[[Image:Batman-Mine-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Penguin's skeletons act out a very strange game of baseball. As is often the case in fiction, the human skeleton in the two ''Arkham'' games seems to be fully posable even when all the stuff actually holding it together is gone.]]

==M230 Chain Gun==

Patrolling TYGER PMC helicopters seen over the city are armed with [[M230 Chain Gun]]s on their undersides, equipped with searchlights. TYGER also use M230s rigged as sentry guns to protect fixed locations.

[[Image:Hughes-M230-Chain-Gun3.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Hughes/Alliant Techsystems M230 30mm Chain Gun]]
[[Image:Batman-M230-1.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Batman hangs from one of the TYGER helicopters, showing off the chin-mounted M230.]]
[[Image:Batman-M230-2.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Later he comes across a TYGER PMC turret guarding a Riddler trophy.]]
[[Image:Batman-M230-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|It proves no match for Batman's new "Disruptor" gadget, however. Note it completely lacks a source of ammunition.]]

=="Bat Killer"==

One of the first screenshots for the "Harley's Revenge" DLC shows her with one of the stranger firearms of Arkham City.

[[File:BAC-Unknown.jpg |thumb|none|600px|The "Bat Killer".]]
[[File:BAC-Unknown2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Harley aiming it. The front end now looks similar to an [[HK69A1]] and the sights.]]
[[File:BACUnknown3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "Bat Killer". Apparently the gun itself was made custom for Quinn and judging by the marking it is chambered for "Cal .44." Other features include a Glock styled slide which apparently ejects to the left, wooden grips, and the ring hammer]]
{{Batman Series}}
[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:Third-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:Stealth]]
[[Category:Crime]]

Talk:Hanna (2011)

2013-01-23T21:57:22Z

2wingo: /* Update 2 */

==NO SPOILERS!!!==
This is an ongoing problem with people who make pages here. Tons of folks have NOT seen the movie and just happen upon the page. NO SPOILERS PERIOD! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:37, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

Please help ID these weapons that were left out of the page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:29, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

[[Image:Hanna 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Hanna 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Hanna 11.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I believe this is a [[Vektor SP1]]. There's a great closeup at 1:46 at [http://www.traileraddict.com/clip/hanna/where-am-i http://www.traileraddict.com/clip/hanna/where-am-i] (assuming they shot the entire scene with the same gun). Here is a capture of the closeup:
[[Image:Hanna 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Coulda sworn i saw a luger P08 in the commercial...--[[Special:Contributions/74.177.137.240|74.177.137.240]] 05:29, 29 March 2011 (CDT)

It might be a Luger, I've never seen a luger with the muzzle facing me so I can't be sure. Here's a screenshot from about 01:46 of [http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi984063257 http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi984063257]:
[[Image:Hanna 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

=="HK416"==

HK416? I think those might actually be CAS-V rails on M4s. The flip-up front sight is too far forward by the looks of things to be the 416. Just a thought.
:I agree, but think that they aren't even real guns at all, but the [http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/136 Tokyo Marui M4 S-System airsoft gun]. IIRC, they are not seen fired (except offscreen) in the film. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:01, 10 December 2011 (CST)
:Yeah, they look like the S-System, or at least a similarly-configured M4. Can't be sure because they aren't shown clearly. The shape of the front sight thoroughly proves they aren't 416s, though. Changing. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:21, 8 January 2013 (EST)

== Character Armory ==

I am a fanfiction writer. For those of you who are not familiar with the term, fanfiction is is a form of Alternate or Expanded Universe created by the fans of a work, rather than the work's original creator (elaboration available upon request).

For a Hanna fanfiction I have in the works, I plan to give her a personal armory consisting of one of each of the following: an assault rifle, a shotgun, a handgun, and a submachine gun, all given modifications by a gunsmith. After doing countless hours of research on this site and others, I have chosen the following:

The LWRC M6A2 PSD (modified to use the 6.8 Remington SPC cartridge instead of the 5.56 NATO)

The 12-gauge Mossberg 590 Compact Crusier (given a detachable muzzle-break for door-breaching and had the trigger disconnecter removed)

The Glock 29 (uses a modified EFA-2K "Spetsnaz" holster)

The Daewoo K7 (suppressor baffles reinforced to allow continuous full-auto fire without risk of damage, modified to accept ANY 9mm Uzi magazine instead of just the 30-round ones).

My problem is that I have no practical experience with guns, and have no knowledge about any of these weapons aside from what I have read about them, nor if some of these modifications are even possible in real life. So if anyone out there has real experience with any of these firearms and/or knowledge about the realism of their respective modifications, I would greatly appriciate your input.

- [[User: 2wingo]]

Well, for one thing, the M6A2 PSD doesn't need to be "modified" to use 6.8 because LWRC offers 6.8mm variants of their M6 line straight from the factory. Still, though, I'd suggest 5.56 instead since it (and its civilian counterpart, .223 Remington, are more widely available in both the US as well as abroad (I'm not aware of 6.8 being offered anywhere else but in the US and no foreign companies to my knowledge make 6.8 SPC rifles) and would be easier for someone like Hanna to get acquire. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:43, 8 January 2013 (EST)
: Good point. Maybe I'll change it to an H&K G36C. - [[User: 2wingo]]

A Glock 29 is a terrible idea. 10mm is already a powerful round, subcompact is going to be near-uncontrollable, especially for a 13-year old. Go with a Glock 26, 36 or perhaps a 27. Also, 10mm Auto is expensive, and 9mm is the worldwide standard. 6.8 SPC is an utterly unproven round, go with readily available 5.56. And why a K7? An MP5SD might be better, considering the K7 incredibly rare. Also, the shotgun needs a stock. A second pistol grip with an M4-style stock would be nice. Recoil could be a major problem for a small female, super-soldier or not.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 09:37, 8 January 2013 (EST)
: In my story, Hanna will be going up against people wearing kevlar, thick leather, and various forms of body armor, so her handgun has to have plenty of stopping power and penetration. What would you recommend, as far as 12-gauge shotguns go? - [[User: 2wingo]]

=== Update ===

First of all, thank you to all the users who took the time to offer me advice on my selections, here and elsewhere. Based on said advice, here are the changes I've made to Hanna's armory:

Assault Rifle: The Heckler & Koch G36C (with a vertical foregrip attached)

Shotgun: The 12-gauge Remington 870 "Witness Protection" (she probably won't carry it into combat, just keep it in her apartment in case she's attacked there.)

Handgun: The Gen4 Glock 26 (she'll usually use 12-round magazines)

Submachine Gun: The M3A1 "Grease Gun" (rate of fire decreased from 450 to 350 rounds per minute for greater controllability.)

Sniper Rifle: The Remington Model 81 Woodmaster (chambered in .300 Savage with detachable 15-round box magazine and customize-made detachable scope and supressor).

Any further input on what I would say is a vastly improved list will, of course, be appriciated, and again, thank you all. - [[User: 2wingo]]
: A few things to think about. With the submachine gun it would make sense to have one that uses the same caliber as the pistol, and 9mm being rather common worldwide makes the most sense. Same thing with the sniper rifle, .308 is rather common, though not as accurate as other rounds, it would be harder to trace. Otherwise it seems like a good selection. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] ([[User talk:Dover500|talk]]) 21:26, 18 January 2013 (EST)
:: Grease Gun is going to be just as hard to get parts for as the K7 and 450rpm is perfectly controllable. Uzi, MP5A2/A3, or similar 9mm SMG is better. And like Dover500 said, forget the .300 Savage round. .308 is vastly easier to get. Don't forget various sights, suppressors, etc for the guns. And loot the dead. Just like every RPG you've played, grab their ammo, wallets (money, possible fake ID, intel), and weapons/accessories. What you don't use, sell.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 22:49, 18 January 2013 (EST)

=== Update 2 ===

Once again, thanks to all who offered me advice and suggestions. Here is my current list:

Assault Rifle: Heckler & Koch G36C

Shotgun: 12-gauge Remington 870 "Witness Protection"

Handgun: Gen4 Glock 26

Submachine Gun: 9mm IMI Mini-Uzi

Sniper Rifle: Thompson Center Arms G2 Contender Rifle (.223 Remington chambering modified to handle the higher pressure 5.56 NATO rounds with custom suppressor and bipod; also modified to be "taken down" without the use of tools).

[[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Thompson Center Arms Contender Rifle

2013-01-23T06:51:24Z

2wingo:

==merge with TC pistol page==
Shouldn't this be merged with the [[Thompson Center Arms Contender]] as the Rifle is just the pistol with a stock and longer barrel?[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 01:42, 23 January 2013 (EST)

== Take-down? ==
Is this gun easy to disassemble? - [[User: 2wingo]]

Talk:Thompson Center Arms Contender Rifle

2013-01-23T06:18:38Z

2wingo: Created page with "Is this gun easy to disassemble? - User: 2wingo"

Is this gun easy to disassemble? - [[User: 2wingo]]